From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 1 01:57:09 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 21:57:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the test accomodations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74BCED03928D4C569FE81FD4ACF3AF7D@OwnerPC> Kaiti, I've never used the braille note for tests as I said before. I was told by the school to go to the testing center and use their computer. However, if I did use the Braille note, I'd still need a reader to write my answers on a scantron. If it was essay, I'd simply write the essay in the file. Also, I'm glad taking tests in the professor's office works for you. However, when I requested to do this in the past, they say that they are busy or something. I agree with you that your way sounds uncomplicated. I'll definitely consider taking future exams in my professor's office again if I take more classes; I should be finishing my certificate now though. I could see that its easy; simply taking it on a notetaker or laptop. Regarding the brailling of the test, I agree with you. The process is incredibly easy with Duxbury which is the software the school has, or used to have. Its not rocket science. The counselor should know a little about technology for blind people having been a prior vr counselor at the department for the blind here. When you said, "Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special training and that it won't take much of her time." I can certainly ask her about this. They have student worker staff in the counseling office and a student could convert it to braille with duxbury from a Word file. Personally, I think her claim that no one can braille it because the assistive technology lab guy left is an excuse. They could make braille happen if they wanted to with all the staff and resources they have. I like the points you made about the ease of embossing and no special technology knowledge needed. Great points. Maybe that will change their mind for the next student that comes along and needs embossing. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kaiti Shelton Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations Hi Ashley, I agree with Kirt, Lillie, Arielle, Melissa, etc. My question is, if you do use the BrailleNote to read your test why wouldn't you use it to write your answers as well. You could always flip between the test document and your answer document with the 1 2 5 6 and space command, which would cut out the need to have a reader at all. In addition to what has been said by others, I think the fewer number of people you bring into the situation the easier it could be. For example, if your professor would be okay with you using the notetaker to read the test and just gave you a flashdrive with the test on it, you could take the test in their office, put the answer sheet file on the flash drive when you're done, and instantly hand the test back to your professor. In my experiences this is the most uncomplicated way of handling testing situations, and it also doesn't take other unnecessary people to get the job done. Anyway, I was just curious. Also, another note adding to what Lillie said. Your office claims there is no one to run the software to braille your stuff; have you told them that all they need to do is take a document and click a few buttons in Microsoft word and as long as the embosser is on they really don't need some special person to do it? My university hired an assistive technology specialist to help with things like checking accessibility of the blackboard stuff, making sure my math turned out to be doable, etc, and to do my brailling, but running an embosser is by no means rocket science and I've even had students who work the disability office desk and had never even embossed anything before figure out where to click and emboss documents for me when she wasn't available. Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special training and that it won't take much of her time. Good luck, from one final exam-taking student to another. On 4/30/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Ashley, > > A serial port should work for this. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley > Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:16 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations > > Lilly, > I like that idea. I have an m'power. What cable do you use to hook a > monitor > to the notetaker? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lillie Pennington > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations > > Out of curiosity. Did the issue of having a monitor hooked up to your > Braille note ever come up so the professor or whoever could see what you > were doing and not cheating. I like that system as well. It can get dicey > with graphics in the file or massive word banks. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course >> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue >> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a >> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters >> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated >> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the >> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have >> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center >> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors >> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their >> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone >> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later. >> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between >> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a >> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it >> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated, >> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is >> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I >> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of >> using my Braille Note. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not, >>> how do you read the exam? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kirt >>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>> >>> Ashley, >>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the >>> test outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is >>> as good as you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the >>> very least? >>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take >>> their test >>> >>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the >>> class takes it. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington" >>> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Ashley, >>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want >>>> to be thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these >>>> types of problems. For example, if your taking another class like >>>> this where you may want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it? >>>> Would you be willing to pay with your own money for a Braille test? >>>> You could look into getting your tests transcribed somehow. You >>>> could talk to your future professors about this (you'd probably have >>>> to make arrangements for them to somehow send the test off to make >>>> sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you mentioning in >>>> another email that you had a Braille note. How comfortable are you >>>> with electronic files? The professor may have an electronic copy of >>>> the test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from >>>> there on your display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille >>>> (sort of.) For these tests with the foreign language words, and >>>> other tests in general, this could also iliminate the reader >>>> problems your having. I don't know if any >>>> >>>> of >>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I >>>> was thinking of. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>>> Bramlett >>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> Hi Justin and everyone, >>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of >>>> hearing a reader state these words. >>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the >>>> braille production anymore; I don't know what the assistive technology > guy left. >>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for >>>> this. >>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam >>>> brailled last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to >>>> work with. >>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument >>>> against braille was the following: >>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read >>>> the exam with jaws. >>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam. >>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not >>>> necessary to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to >>>> translate into braille because you have a means to access the exam >>>> now. >>>> >>>> It was a pr exam btw. >>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough >>>> time. >>>> She would make the same arguments I believe. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: justin williams >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> At this point, why not. Not a bad idea. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne >>>> Germano >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow >>>> along with the reader? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman < >>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out >>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup, >>>>> if the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow >>>>> their rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll >>>>> be willing to work something out with you that's fair. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have >>>>>> to use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you >>>>>> step out of their office. >>>>>> I don't know where other blind students have taken tests with >>>>>> their private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a >>>>>> designated testing room in the building where the class is, or you >>>>>> could go to the professor's office hours and do it there while the >>>>>> professor is around to ensure you don't cheat. >>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who >>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I >>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my >>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This >>>>>> will help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then >>>>>> you might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality. >>>>>> >>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but >>>>>> they're not binding on you as the student. The only one who really >>>>>> has control over how you take tests is the professor. Some >>>>>> professors give their entire classes online exams. That's their >>>>>> right as professors >>>> to do. >>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader, >>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other >>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make. >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me >>>>>>> arrange for >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam. >>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this >>>>>>> violates school >>>>>>> >>>>>>> policy. >>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own >>>>>>> readers for exams with no objection from the professor? Where >>>>>>> would they take the exam and how does the professor ensure that >>>>>>> you did not cheat then? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their >>>>>>> office. >>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you >>>>>>> hired yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that >>>>>>> arrangement you worked out with your professor. The DSS office >>>>>>> only has authority if you give it to them by asking to take the >>>>>>> test in their >>>> office. >>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the >>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite >>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically >>>>>>> not quite in line with school policy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree >>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing >>>>>>>> certificate. The class >>>>> I >>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion. >>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college. >>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own readers. >>>>> Gosh. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and >>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me >>>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts >>>>>>>> and looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a >>>>>>>> reader to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the >>>>>>>> option >>>> to >>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the ADA. >>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower >>>>>>>> grade using bad readers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can >>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most >>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced >>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material >>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they >>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing >>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting >>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a >>>>>>>> community college, maybe the professor could read it for you and >>>>>>>> scribe your answers during office hours the day before the test or > some such? >>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for >>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent. >>>>>>>> Some disability services offices frown on this practice because >>>>>>>> they prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an >>>>>>>> option that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who >>>>>>>> might not >>>> care much. >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano wrote: >>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but >>>>>>>>> when I >>>>> had >>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the >>>>>>>>> person >>>>> was >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. >>>>>>>>> And then you interview them by having them read to you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt >>>>>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring >>>>>>>>>> between colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always >>>>>>>>>> provided me with >>>> competent >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words >>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud. I hope I >>>>>>>>>> don't run into the same problem you are dealing with right now >>>>>>>>>> and my next college. >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>> you get. >>>>>>>>>>> Do >>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs? >>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a >>>>>>>>>>> scantron, >>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my >>>>>>>>>>> readers were >>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak >>>>>>>>>> slower and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that >>>>>>>>>> clearly and read fast >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>> jaws >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can >>>>> directly >>>>>>>>>> mark >>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I >>>>>>>>>> missed. >>>> If >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another >>>>>>>>>>> message. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>> 0gmail.c >>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info >>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>> edu >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 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unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse. >>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>> thlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>> .com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%4 >> 0fuse.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed May 1 02:02:07 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 20:02:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the test accomodations In-Reply-To: <74BCED03928D4C569FE81FD4ACF3AF7D@OwnerPC> References: <74BCED03928D4C569FE81FD4ACF3AF7D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I've never taken a test in a professor's office; I've always done it in class with the other students, either on my Braille Note or laptop. One time I did the test in the teaching assistant's office on my Braille Note so she could describe diagrams to me. I know that's not an option for Ashley, but just putting out there for others. Arielle On 4/30/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kaiti, > I've never used the braille note for tests as I said before. I was told by > the school to go to the testing center and use their computer. > However, if I did use the Braille note, I'd > still need a reader to write my answers on a scantron. If it was essay, I'd > > simply write the essay in the file. > > Also, I'm glad taking tests in the professor's office works for you. > However, when I requested to do this in the past, they say that they are > busy or something. > I agree with you that your way sounds uncomplicated. > > I'll definitely consider taking future exams in my professor's office again > > if I take more classes; I should be finishing my certificate now though. > I could see that its easy; simply taking it on a notetaker or laptop. > > Regarding the brailling of the test, I agree with you. > The process is incredibly easy with Duxbury which is the software the school > > has, or used to have. > Its not rocket science. > > The counselor should know a little about technology for blind people having > > been a prior vr counselor at the department for the blind here. > When you said, > "Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the > process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she > knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable > to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special > training and that it won't take much of her time." > > I can certainly ask her about this. They have student worker staff in the > counseling office and a student could convert it to braille with duxbury > from a Word file. > Personally, I think her claim that no one can braille it because the > assistive technology lab guy left is an excuse. > They could make braille happen if they wanted to with all the staff and > resources they have. > > I like the points you made about the ease of embossing and no special > technology knowledge needed. Great points. Maybe that will change their mind > > for the next student that comes along and needs embossing. > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:37 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations > > Hi Ashley, > > I agree with Kirt, Lillie, Arielle, Melissa, etc. > > My question is, if you do use the BrailleNote to read your test why > wouldn't you use it to write your answers as well. You could always > flip between the test document and your answer document with the 1 2 5 > 6 and space command, which would cut out the need to have a reader at > all. > > In addition to what has been said by others, I think the fewer number > of people you bring into the situation the easier it could be. For > example, if your professor would be okay with you using the notetaker > to read the test and just gave you a flashdrive with the test on it, > you could take the test in their office, put the answer sheet file on > the flash drive when you're done, and instantly hand the test back to > your professor. In my experiences this is the most uncomplicated way > of handling testing situations, and it also doesn't take other > unnecessary people to get the job done. Anyway, I was just curious. > > Also, another note adding to what Lillie said. Your office claims > there is no one to run the software to braille your stuff; have you > told them that all they need to do is take a document and click a few > buttons in Microsoft word and as long as the embosser is on they > really don't need some special person to do it? My university hired > an assistive technology specialist to help with things like checking > accessibility of the blackboard stuff, making sure my math turned out > to be doable, etc, and to do my brailling, but running an embosser is > by no means rocket science and I've even had students who work the > disability office desk and had never even embossed anything before > figure out where to click and emboss documents for me when she wasn't > available. Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the > process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she > knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable > to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special > training and that it won't take much of her time. > Good luck, from one final exam-taking student to another. > > On 4/30/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Ashley, >> >> A serial port should work for this. >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >> Bramlett >> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:16 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >> >> Lilly, >> I like that idea. I have an m'power. What cable do you use to hook a >> monitor >> to the notetaker? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lillie Pennington >> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >> >> Out of curiosity. Did the issue of having a monitor hooked up to your >> Braille note ever come up so the professor or whoever could see what you >> were doing and not cheating. I like that system as well. It can get dicey >> with graphics in the file or massive word banks. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course >>> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue >>> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a >>> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters >>> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated >>> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the >>> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have >>> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center >>> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors >>> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their >>> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone >>> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later. >>> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between >>> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a >>> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it >>> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated, >>> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is >>> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I >>> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of >>> using my Braille Note. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Kirt, >>>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not, >>>> how do you read the exam? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Kirt >>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> Ashley, >>>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the >>>> test outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is >>>> as good as you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the >>>> very least? >>>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take >>>> their test >>>> >>>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the >>>> class takes it. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington" >>>> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ashley, >>>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want >>>>> to be thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these >>>>> types of problems. For example, if your taking another class like >>>>> this where you may want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it? >>>>> Would you be willing to pay with your own money for a Braille test? >>>>> You could look into getting your tests transcribed somehow. You >>>>> could talk to your future professors about this (you'd probably have >>>>> to make arrangements for them to somehow send the test off to make >>>>> sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you mentioning in >>>>> another email that you had a Braille note. How comfortable are you >>>>> with electronic files? The professor may have an electronic copy of >>>>> the test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from >>>>> there on your display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille >>>>> (sort of.) For these tests with the foreign language words, and >>>>> other tests in general, this could also iliminate the reader >>>>> problems your having. I don't know if any >>>>> >>>>> of >>>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I >>>>> was thinking of. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>>>> Bramlett >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>> >>>>> Hi Justin and everyone, >>>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of >>>>> hearing a reader state these words. >>>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the >>>>> braille production anymore; I don't know what the assistive technology >> guy left. >>>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for >>>>> this. >>>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam >>>>> brailled last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to >>>>> work with. >>>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument >>>>> against braille was the following: >>>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read >>>>> the exam with jaws. >>>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam. >>>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not >>>>> necessary to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to >>>>> translate into braille because you have a means to access the exam >>>>> now. >>>>> >>>>> It was a pr exam btw. >>>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough >>>>> time. >>>>> She would make the same arguments I believe. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: justin williams >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM >>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>> >>>>> At this point, why not. Not a bad idea. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne >>>>> Germano >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>> >>>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow >>>>> along with the reader? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman < >>>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out >>>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup, >>>>>> if the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow >>>>>> their rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll >>>>>> be willing to work something out with you that's fair. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have >>>>>>> to use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you >>>>>>> step out of their office. >>>>>>> I don't know where other blind students have taken tests with >>>>>>> their private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a >>>>>>> designated testing room in the building where the class is, or you >>>>>>> could go to the professor's office hours and do it there while the >>>>>>> professor is around to ensure you don't cheat. >>>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who >>>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I >>>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my >>>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This >>>>>>> will help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then >>>>>>> you might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but >>>>>>> they're not binding on you as the student. The only one who really >>>>>>> has control over how you take tests is the professor. Some >>>>>>> professors give their entire classes online exams. That's their >>>>>>> right as professors >>>>> to do. >>>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader, >>>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other >>>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me >>>>>>>> arrange for >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam. >>>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this >>>>>>>> violates school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> policy. >>>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own >>>>>>>> readers for exams with no objection from the professor? Where >>>>>>>> would they take the exam and how does the professor ensure that >>>>>>>> you did not cheat then? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their >>>>>>>> office. >>>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you >>>>>>>> hired yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that >>>>>>>> arrangement you worked out with your professor. The DSS office >>>>>>>> only has authority if you give it to them by asking to take the >>>>>>>> test in their >>>>> office. >>>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the >>>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite >>>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically >>>>>>>> not quite in line with school policy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree >>>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing >>>>>>>>> certificate. The class >>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion. >>>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college. >>>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own readers. >>>>>> Gosh. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and >>>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me >>>>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts >>>>>>>>> and looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a >>>>>>>>> reader to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the >>>>>>>>> option >>>>> to >>>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the ADA. >>>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower >>>>>>>>> grade using bad readers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can >>>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most >>>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced >>>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material >>>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they >>>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing >>>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting >>>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a >>>>>>>>> community college, maybe the professor could read it for you and >>>>>>>>> scribe your answers during office hours the day before the test or >> some such? >>>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for >>>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent. >>>>>>>>> Some disability services offices frown on this practice because >>>>>>>>> they prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an >>>>>>>>> option that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who >>>>>>>>> might not >>>>> care much. >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but >>>>>>>>>> when I >>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the >>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. >>>>>>>>>> And then you interview them by having them read to you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring >>>>>>>>>>> between colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always >>>>>>>>>>> provided me with >>>>> competent >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words >>>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud. I hope I >>>>>>>>>>> don't run into the same problem you are dealing with right now >>>>>>>>>>> and my next college. >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>>> you get. >>>>>>>>>>>> Do >>>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs? >>>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a >>>>>>>>>>>> scantron, >>>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my >>>>>>>>>>>> readers were >>>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak >>>>>>>>>>> slower and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that >>>>>>>>>>> clearly and read fast >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>> jaws >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can >>>>>> directly >>>>>>>>>>> mark >>>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I >>>>>>>>>>> missed. >>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another >>>>>>>>>>>> message. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>> 0gmail.c >>>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>> rthlink >>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>> %40gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>> net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>> edu >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>> %40gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse. >>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>> thlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%4 >>> 0fuse.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed May 1 02:06:35 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 20:06:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Office In-Reply-To: References: <6EB25E2244984EDD861DD12121E17A70@Gloria> <006601ce45e2$6ced4ea0$46c7ebe0$@gmail.com> <02BD831A33164D409D61B221393B9B43@Gloria> Message-ID: <110A5E42-724C-43BB-8922-587A543F3274@gmail.com> I tried open office like a year ago with jaws And it definitely was not pretty. When I tried, at least, the whole thing was an accessibility nightmare… And that's stating it gently. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > You might also try open office. It's free, however I can't attest to > it's accessibility with Jaws. I do believe it has the capability to > export the files as rtf and other document filetypes though, so if > someone can say that it's jaws-user-friendly it might be a good option > for you. > > On 4/30/13, Gloria G wrote: >> Thank you >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Nusbaum" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Office >> >> >>> Gloria, >>> >>> There is a slightly slimmed-down version of Office for students called >>> Office Home & Student. I'm not sure how expensive it is, but I would >>> imagine >>> that it is cheaper than the full version. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:23 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Office >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I was wonderingi f anyone could tell me if there is it possible for >>> college >>> students to purchase the latest version of office at a discounted price, >>> and >>> if so where do I do this? I was also wondering, as a JAWs user, is there >>> one >>> version of office better than another? Sorry if this is a silly question, >>> but I am not the most tech savvy person. I only know what I need to. >>> Thanks >>> in advance _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 1 02:08:14 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 22:08:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note and visual monitor was the test accomodations In-Reply-To: <51804462.1040309@tysdomain.com> References: <98AB8415CDAA4D56B6BAFAD44745358A@OwnerPC><6D996CF065B94CE8978A2EB01DE2C5CA@OwnerPC><001c01ce42f3$6dad8ea0$4908abe0$@gmail.com><9A47148DE1FE4ECEB752BE9FDF378FBF@OwnerPC><011c01ce43ad$2e7473b0$8b5d5b10$@gmail.com><8F46E514B92E4F00B2E4DEF3C1675E01@OwnerPC><000001ce4524$95062470$bf126d50$@net><57D5DF01-30B9-48D8-B086-27F784803C1A@gmail.com><424A4A0CB0B64AEA80702B1DF6812802@OwnerPC> <24E3123ECBAC43089C88DEBC33ACDF81@OwnerPC><007d01ce45ef$65ee2810$31ca7830$@gmail.com> <51804462.1040309@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hello Tyler, Yes, the em'power has a usb port as well as an old fashioned cerial port. Also has infrared capability if that helps. Hmm, so you meerly tell the braille note to go to visual display and connect your monitor. What sort of monitors can you use? Do you mean a typical monitor that is used for a computer? Could you hook the braille note to a projector or tv screen? Just curious. Thanks. Sounds like a good way to ensure you are not cheating during a test or even for in class writings where others need to see what you wrote. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations A serial port does not work for this. The VGA monitors look like a serial port, but they're not with obvious different pin configurations. I don't know if the MPower has the right ports on it--if there's a USB port, you may be able to get a USB to DVI converter and use that to hook into a DVI monitor. It really depends on the port configuration. On 4/30/2013 4:09 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Ashley, > > A serial port should work for this. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley > Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:16 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations > > Lilly, > I like that idea. I have an m'power. What cable do you use to hook a > monitor > to the notetaker? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lillie Pennington > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations > > Out of curiosity. Did the issue of having a monitor hooked up to your > Braille note ever come up so the professor or whoever could see what you > were doing and not cheating. I like that system as well. It can get dicey > with graphics in the file or massive word banks. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course >> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue >> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a >> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters >> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated >> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the >> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have >> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center >> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors >> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their >> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone >> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later. >> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between >> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a >> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it >> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated, >> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is >> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I >> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of >> using my Braille Note. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not, >>> how do you read the exam? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kirt >>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>> >>> Ashley, >>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the >>> test outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is >>> as good as you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the >>> very least? >>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take >>> their test >>> >>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the >>> class takes it. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington" >>> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Ashley, >>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want >>>> to be thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these >>>> types of problems. For example, if your taking another class like >>>> this where you may want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it? >>>> Would you be willing to pay with your own money for a Braille test? >>>> You could look into getting your tests transcribed somehow. You >>>> could talk to your future professors about this (you'd probably have >>>> to make arrangements for them to somehow send the test off to make >>>> sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you mentioning in >>>> another email that you had a Braille note. How comfortable are you >>>> with electronic files? The professor may have an electronic copy of >>>> the test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from >>>> there on your display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille >>>> (sort of.) For these tests with the foreign language words, and >>>> other tests in general, this could also iliminate the reader >>>> problems your having. I don't know if any >>>> >>>> of >>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I >>>> was thinking of. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>>> Bramlett >>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> Hi Justin and everyone, >>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of >>>> hearing a reader state these words. >>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the >>>> braille production anymore; I don't know what the assistive technology > guy left. >>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for >>>> this. >>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam >>>> brailled last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to >>>> work with. >>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument >>>> against braille was the following: >>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read >>>> the exam with jaws. >>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam. >>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not >>>> necessary to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to >>>> translate into braille because you have a means to access the exam >>>> now. >>>> >>>> It was a pr exam btw. >>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough >>>> time. >>>> She would make the same arguments I believe. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: justin williams >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> At this point, why not. Not a bad idea. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne >>>> Germano >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow >>>> along with the reader? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman < >>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out >>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup, >>>>> if the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow >>>>> their rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll >>>>> be willing to work something out with you that's fair. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have >>>>>> to use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you >>>>>> step out of their office. >>>>>> I don't know where other blind students have taken tests with >>>>>> their private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a >>>>>> designated testing room in the building where the class is, or you >>>>>> could go to the professor's office hours and do it there while the >>>>>> professor is around to ensure you don't cheat. >>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who >>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I >>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my >>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This >>>>>> will help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then >>>>>> you might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality. >>>>>> >>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but >>>>>> they're not binding on you as the student. The only one who really >>>>>> has control over how you take tests is the professor. Some >>>>>> professors give their entire classes online exams. That's their >>>>>> right as professors >>>> to do. >>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader, >>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other >>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make. >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me >>>>>>> arrange for >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam. >>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this >>>>>>> violates school >>>>>>> >>>>>>> policy. >>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own >>>>>>> readers for exams with no objection from the professor? Where >>>>>>> would they take the exam and how does the professor ensure that >>>>>>> you did not cheat then? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their >>>>>>> office. >>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you >>>>>>> hired yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that >>>>>>> arrangement you worked out with your professor. The DSS office >>>>>>> only has authority if you give it to them by asking to take the >>>>>>> test in their >>>> office. >>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the >>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite >>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically >>>>>>> not quite in line with school policy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree >>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing >>>>>>>> certificate. The class >>>>> I >>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion. >>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college. >>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own readers. >>>>> Gosh. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and >>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me >>>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts >>>>>>>> and looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a >>>>>>>> reader to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the >>>>>>>> option >>>> to >>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the ADA. >>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower >>>>>>>> grade using bad readers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can >>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most >>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced >>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material >>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they >>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing >>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting >>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a >>>>>>>> community college, maybe the professor could read it for you and >>>>>>>> scribe your answers during office hours the day before the test or > some such? >>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for >>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent. >>>>>>>> Some disability services offices frown on this practice because >>>>>>>> they prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an >>>>>>>> option that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who >>>>>>>> might not >>>> care much. >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano wrote: >>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but >>>>>>>>> when I >>>>> had >>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the >>>>>>>>> person >>>>> was >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. >>>>>>>>> And then you interview them by having them read to you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt >>>>>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring >>>>>>>>>> between colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always >>>>>>>>>> provided me with >>>> competent >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words >>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud. I hope I >>>>>>>>>> don't run into the same problem you are dealing with right now >>>>>>>>>> and my next college. >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>> you get. >>>>>>>>>>> Do >>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs? >>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a >>>>>>>>>>> scantron, >>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers? >>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my >>>>>>>>>>> readers were >>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak >>>>>>>>>> slower and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that >>>>>>>>>> clearly and read fast >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>> jaws >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can >>>>> directly >>>>>>>>>> mark >>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I >>>>>>>>>> missed. >>>> If >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader. >>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another >>>>>>>>>>> message. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>> 0gmail.c >>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info >>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>> edu >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>> rthlink >>>>> . >>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>> %40gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>> edu >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>> %40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse. >>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>> thlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>> .com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%4 >> 0fuse.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 1 02:14:44 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 22:14:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the test accomodations In-Reply-To: References: <74BCED03928D4C569FE81FD4ACF3AF7D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Arielle, That's a good idea if it works for you. I never have done exams in class in college; I need extended time and well it just did not seem fair to me to ask to do an exam on my personal equipment anyway. Anyway, I also like the idea of using a TA's office if your class has one. Thanks for sharing. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations I've never taken a test in a professor's office; I've always done it in class with the other students, either on my Braille Note or laptop. One time I did the test in the teaching assistant's office on my Braille Note so she could describe diagrams to me. I know that's not an option for Ashley, but just putting out there for others. Arielle On 4/30/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kaiti, > I've never used the braille note for tests as I said before. I was told by > the school to go to the testing center and use their computer. > However, if I did use the Braille note, I'd > still need a reader to write my answers on a scantron. If it was essay, > I'd > > simply write the essay in the file. > > Also, I'm glad taking tests in the professor's office works for you. > However, when I requested to do this in the past, they say that they are > busy or something. > I agree with you that your way sounds uncomplicated. > > I'll definitely consider taking future exams in my professor's office > again > > if I take more classes; I should be finishing my certificate now though. > I could see that its easy; simply taking it on a notetaker or laptop. > > Regarding the brailling of the test, I agree with you. > The process is incredibly easy with Duxbury which is the software the > school > > has, or used to have. > Its not rocket science. > > The counselor should know a little about technology for blind people > having > > been a prior vr counselor at the department for the blind here. > When you said, > "Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the > process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she > knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable > to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special > training and that it won't take much of her time." > > I can certainly ask her about this. They have student worker staff in the > counseling office and a student could convert it to braille with duxbury > from a Word file. > Personally, I think her claim that no one can braille it because the > assistive technology lab guy left is an excuse. > They could make braille happen if they wanted to with all the staff and > resources they have. > > I like the points you made about the ease of embossing and no special > technology knowledge needed. Great points. Maybe that will change their > mind > > for the next student that comes along and needs embossing. > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:37 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations > > Hi Ashley, > > I agree with Kirt, Lillie, Arielle, Melissa, etc. > > My question is, if you do use the BrailleNote to read your test why > wouldn't you use it to write your answers as well. You could always > flip between the test document and your answer document with the 1 2 5 > 6 and space command, which would cut out the need to have a reader at > all. > > In addition to what has been said by others, I think the fewer number > of people you bring into the situation the easier it could be. For > example, if your professor would be okay with you using the notetaker > to read the test and just gave you a flashdrive with the test on it, > you could take the test in their office, put the answer sheet file on > the flash drive when you're done, and instantly hand the test back to > your professor. In my experiences this is the most uncomplicated way > of handling testing situations, and it also doesn't take other > unnecessary people to get the job done. Anyway, I was just curious. > > Also, another note adding to what Lillie said. Your office claims > there is no one to run the software to braille your stuff; have you > told them that all they need to do is take a document and click a few > buttons in Microsoft word and as long as the embosser is on they > really don't need some special person to do it? My university hired > an assistive technology specialist to help with things like checking > accessibility of the blackboard stuff, making sure my math turned out > to be doable, etc, and to do my brailling, but running an embosser is > by no means rocket science and I've even had students who work the > disability office desk and had never even embossed anything before > figure out where to click and emboss documents for me when she wasn't > available. Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the > process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she > knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable > to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special > training and that it won't take much of her time. > Good luck, from one final exam-taking student to another. > > On 4/30/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Ashley, >> >> A serial port should work for this. >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >> Bramlett >> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:16 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >> >> Lilly, >> I like that idea. I have an m'power. What cable do you use to hook a >> monitor >> to the notetaker? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lillie Pennington >> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >> >> Out of curiosity. Did the issue of having a monitor hooked up to your >> Braille note ever come up so the professor or whoever could see what you >> were doing and not cheating. I like that system as well. It can get dicey >> with graphics in the file or massive word banks. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course >>> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue >>> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a >>> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters >>> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated >>> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the >>> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have >>> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center >>> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors >>> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their >>> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone >>> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later. >>> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between >>> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a >>> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it >>> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated, >>> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is >>> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I >>> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of >>> using my Braille Note. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Kirt, >>>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not, >>>> how do you read the exam? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Kirt >>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> Ashley, >>>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the >>>> test outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is >>>> as good as you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the >>>> very least? >>>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take >>>> their test >>>> >>>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the >>>> class takes it. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington" >>>> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ashley, >>>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want >>>>> to be thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these >>>>> types of problems. For example, if your taking another class like >>>>> this where you may want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it? >>>>> Would you be willing to pay with your own money for a Braille test? >>>>> You could look into getting your tests transcribed somehow. You >>>>> could talk to your future professors about this (you'd probably have >>>>> to make arrangements for them to somehow send the test off to make >>>>> sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you mentioning in >>>>> another email that you had a Braille note. How comfortable are you >>>>> with electronic files? The professor may have an electronic copy of >>>>> the test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from >>>>> there on your display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille >>>>> (sort of.) For these tests with the foreign language words, and >>>>> other tests in general, this could also iliminate the reader >>>>> problems your having. I don't know if any >>>>> >>>>> of >>>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I >>>>> was thinking of. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>>>> Bramlett >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>> >>>>> Hi Justin and everyone, >>>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of >>>>> hearing a reader state these words. >>>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the >>>>> braille production anymore; I don't know what the assistive technology >> guy left. >>>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for >>>>> this. >>>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam >>>>> brailled last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to >>>>> work with. >>>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument >>>>> against braille was the following: >>>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read >>>>> the exam with jaws. >>>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam. >>>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not >>>>> necessary to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to >>>>> translate into braille because you have a means to access the exam >>>>> now. >>>>> >>>>> It was a pr exam btw. >>>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough >>>>> time. >>>>> She would make the same arguments I believe. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: justin williams >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM >>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>> >>>>> At this point, why not. Not a bad idea. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne >>>>> Germano >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>> >>>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow >>>>> along with the reader? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman < >>>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out >>>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup, >>>>>> if the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow >>>>>> their rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll >>>>>> be willing to work something out with you that's fair. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have >>>>>>> to use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you >>>>>>> step out of their office. >>>>>>> I don't know where other blind students have taken tests with >>>>>>> their private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a >>>>>>> designated testing room in the building where the class is, or you >>>>>>> could go to the professor's office hours and do it there while the >>>>>>> professor is around to ensure you don't cheat. >>>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who >>>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I >>>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my >>>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This >>>>>>> will help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then >>>>>>> you might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but >>>>>>> they're not binding on you as the student. The only one who really >>>>>>> has control over how you take tests is the professor. Some >>>>>>> professors give their entire classes online exams. That's their >>>>>>> right as professors >>>>> to do. >>>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader, >>>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other >>>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me >>>>>>>> arrange for >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam. >>>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this >>>>>>>> violates school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> policy. >>>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own >>>>>>>> readers for exams with no objection from the professor? Where >>>>>>>> would they take the exam and how does the professor ensure that >>>>>>>> you did not cheat then? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their >>>>>>>> office. >>>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you >>>>>>>> hired yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that >>>>>>>> arrangement you worked out with your professor. The DSS office >>>>>>>> only has authority if you give it to them by asking to take the >>>>>>>> test in their >>>>> office. >>>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the >>>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite >>>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically >>>>>>>> not quite in line with school policy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree >>>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing >>>>>>>>> certificate. The class >>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion. >>>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college. >>>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own readers. >>>>>> Gosh. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and >>>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me >>>>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts >>>>>>>>> and looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a >>>>>>>>> reader to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the >>>>>>>>> option >>>>> to >>>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the ADA. >>>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower >>>>>>>>> grade using bad readers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can >>>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most >>>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced >>>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material >>>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they >>>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing >>>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting >>>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a >>>>>>>>> community college, maybe the professor could read it for you and >>>>>>>>> scribe your answers during office hours the day before the test or >> some such? >>>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for >>>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent. >>>>>>>>> Some disability services offices frown on this practice because >>>>>>>>> they prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an >>>>>>>>> option that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who >>>>>>>>> might not >>>>> care much. >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but >>>>>>>>>> when I >>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the >>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. >>>>>>>>>> And then you interview them by having them read to you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring >>>>>>>>>>> between colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always >>>>>>>>>>> provided me with >>>>> competent >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words >>>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud. I hope I >>>>>>>>>>> don't run into the same problem you are dealing with right now >>>>>>>>>>> and my next college. >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>>> you get. >>>>>>>>>>>> Do >>>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs? >>>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a >>>>>>>>>>>> scantron, >>>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my >>>>>>>>>>>> readers were >>>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak >>>>>>>>>>> slower and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that >>>>>>>>>>> clearly and read fast >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>> jaws >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can >>>>>> directly >>>>>>>>>>> mark >>>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I >>>>>>>>>>> missed. >>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another >>>>>>>>>>>> message. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>> 0gmail.c >>>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>> rthlink >>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>> %40gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>> net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>> edu >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>> %40gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse. >>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>> thlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%4 >>> 0fuse.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From juanitatighan at gmail.com Wed May 1 02:30:33 2013 From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 22:30:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the test accomodations In-Reply-To: References: <74BCED03928D4C569FE81FD4ACF3AF7D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <56437545-CA01-469F-8C66-2CE294238750@gmail.com> Lots of tests I did via email or in offices, or sometimes in Learning Labs that departments ran. Some classes had open book tests made for me, but those were a lot harder than you'd think--and I wasn't the best person at taking notes ... I used to take some of my American Lit tests in my professor's office. It had its benefits--like bananas, or water, or crackers. Besides, the prof could keep an eye on me and make sure I didn't go into labor (literally) in his office. He would read me the test to copy down and then I'd have an hour to answer the questions--just like the rest got. In lit classes, I either knew the answers or I didn't. Actually, for most of my classes, I either knew the material or I didn't. The only time I needed anything close to extra time, that I can remember, was Math classes, and I tried not to use that very often, because again, I either knew the steps to solve problems or I didn't. I took advantage of extra time on Math finals, though, because the prof explicitly told me he didn't mind if I did, and he wanted me to have a good shot. You'd think it wouldn't take over two hours to do 25 problems, but it did with my anxieties. Ad we're not talking about hard stuff, very basic algebra, remedial math courses. Jane On Apr 30, 2013, at 10:14 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Arielle, > That's a good idea if it works for you. I never have done exams in class in college; I need extended time > and well it just did not seem fair to me to ask to do an exam on my personal equipment anyway. > > Anyway, I also like the idea of using a TA's office if your class has one. > Thanks for sharing. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations > > I've never taken a test in a professor's office; I've always done it > in class with the other students, either on my Braille Note or laptop. > One time I did the test in the teaching assistant's office on my > Braille Note so she could describe diagrams to me. I know that's not > an option for Ashley, but just putting out there for others. > Arielle > > On 4/30/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Kaiti, >> I've never used the braille note for tests as I said before. I was told by >> the school to go to the testing center and use their computer. >> However, if I did use the Braille note, I'd >> still need a reader to write my answers on a scantron. If it was essay, I'd >> >> simply write the essay in the file. >> >> Also, I'm glad taking tests in the professor's office works for you. >> However, when I requested to do this in the past, they say that they are >> busy or something. >> I agree with you that your way sounds uncomplicated. >> >> I'll definitely consider taking future exams in my professor's office again >> >> if I take more classes; I should be finishing my certificate now though. >> I could see that its easy; simply taking it on a notetaker or laptop. >> >> Regarding the brailling of the test, I agree with you. >> The process is incredibly easy with Duxbury which is the software the school >> >> has, or used to have. >> Its not rocket science. >> >> The counselor should know a little about technology for blind people having >> >> been a prior vr counselor at the department for the blind here. >> When you said, >> "Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the >> process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she >> knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable >> to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special >> training and that it won't take much of her time." >> >> I can certainly ask her about this. They have student worker staff in the >> counseling office and a student could convert it to braille with duxbury >> from a Word file. >> Personally, I think her claim that no one can braille it because the >> assistive technology lab guy left is an excuse. >> They could make braille happen if they wanted to with all the staff and >> resources they have. >> >> I like the points you made about the ease of embossing and no special >> technology knowledge needed. Great points. Maybe that will change their mind >> >> for the next student that comes along and needs embossing. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton >> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:37 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >> >> Hi Ashley, >> >> I agree with Kirt, Lillie, Arielle, Melissa, etc. >> >> My question is, if you do use the BrailleNote to read your test why >> wouldn't you use it to write your answers as well. You could always >> flip between the test document and your answer document with the 1 2 5 >> 6 and space command, which would cut out the need to have a reader at >> all. >> >> In addition to what has been said by others, I think the fewer number >> of people you bring into the situation the easier it could be. For >> example, if your professor would be okay with you using the notetaker >> to read the test and just gave you a flashdrive with the test on it, >> you could take the test in their office, put the answer sheet file on >> the flash drive when you're done, and instantly hand the test back to >> your professor. In my experiences this is the most uncomplicated way >> of handling testing situations, and it also doesn't take other >> unnecessary people to get the job done. Anyway, I was just curious. >> >> Also, another note adding to what Lillie said. Your office claims >> there is no one to run the software to braille your stuff; have you >> told them that all they need to do is take a document and click a few >> buttons in Microsoft word and as long as the embosser is on they >> really don't need some special person to do it? My university hired >> an assistive technology specialist to help with things like checking >> accessibility of the blackboard stuff, making sure my math turned out >> to be doable, etc, and to do my brailling, but running an embosser is >> by no means rocket science and I've even had students who work the >> disability office desk and had never even embossed anything before >> figure out where to click and emboss documents for me when she wasn't >> available. Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the >> process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she >> knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable >> to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special >> training and that it won't take much of her time. >> Good luck, from one final exam-taking student to another. >> >> On 4/30/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Ashley, >>> >>> A serial port should work for this. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>> Bramlett >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:16 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>> >>> Lilly, >>> I like that idea. I have an m'power. What cable do you use to hook a >>> monitor >>> to the notetaker? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Lillie Pennington >>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>> >>> Out of curiosity. Did the issue of having a monitor hooked up to your >>> Braille note ever come up so the professor or whoever could see what you >>> were doing and not cheating. I like that system as well. It can get dicey >>> with graphics in the file or massive word banks. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course >>>> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue >>>> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a >>>> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters >>>> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated >>>> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the >>>> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have >>>> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center >>>> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors >>>> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their >>>> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone >>>> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later. >>>> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between >>>> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a >>>> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it >>>> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated, >>>> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is >>>> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I >>>> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of >>>> using my Braille Note. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Kirt, >>>>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not, >>>>> how do you read the exam? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Kirt >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>> >>>>> Ashley, >>>>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the >>>>> test outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is >>>>> as good as you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the >>>>> very least? >>>>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take >>>>> their test >>>>> >>>>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the >>>>> class takes it. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want >>>>>> to be thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these >>>>>> types of problems. For example, if your taking another class like >>>>>> this where you may want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it? >>>>>> Would you be willing to pay with your own money for a Braille test? >>>>>> You could look into getting your tests transcribed somehow. You >>>>>> could talk to your future professors about this (you'd probably have >>>>>> to make arrangements for them to somehow send the test off to make >>>>>> sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you mentioning in >>>>>> another email that you had a Braille note. How comfortable are you >>>>>> with electronic files? The professor may have an electronic copy of >>>>>> the test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from >>>>>> there on your display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille >>>>>> (sort of.) For these tests with the foreign language words, and >>>>>> other tests in general, this could also iliminate the reader >>>>>> problems your having. I don't know if any >>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I >>>>>> was thinking of. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>>>>> Bramlett >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Justin and everyone, >>>>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of >>>>>> hearing a reader state these words. >>>>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the >>>>>> braille production anymore; I don't know what the assistive technology >>> guy left. >>>>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for >>>>>> this. >>>>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam >>>>>> brailled last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to >>>>>> work with. >>>>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument >>>>>> against braille was the following: >>>>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read >>>>>> the exam with jaws. >>>>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam. >>>>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not >>>>>> necessary to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to >>>>>> translate into braille because you have a means to access the exam >>>>>> now. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was a pr exam btw. >>>>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough >>>>>> time. >>>>>> She would make the same arguments I believe. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: justin williams >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM >>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>> >>>>>> At this point, why not. Not a bad idea. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne >>>>>> Germano >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>> >>>>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow >>>>>> along with the reader? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman < >>>>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out >>>>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup, >>>>>>> if the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow >>>>>>> their rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll >>>>>>> be willing to work something out with you that's fair. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have >>>>>>>> to use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you >>>>>>>> step out of their office. >>>>>>>> I don't know where other blind students have taken tests with >>>>>>>> their private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a >>>>>>>> designated testing room in the building where the class is, or you >>>>>>>> could go to the professor's office hours and do it there while the >>>>>>>> professor is around to ensure you don't cheat. >>>>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who >>>>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I >>>>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my >>>>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This >>>>>>>> will help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then >>>>>>>> you might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but >>>>>>>> they're not binding on you as the student. The only one who really >>>>>>>> has control over how you take tests is the professor. Some >>>>>>>> professors give their entire classes online exams. That's their >>>>>>>> right as professors >>>>>> to do. >>>>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader, >>>>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other >>>>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me >>>>>>>>> arrange for >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam. >>>>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this >>>>>>>>> violates school >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> policy. >>>>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own >>>>>>>>> readers for exams with no objection from the professor? Where >>>>>>>>> would they take the exam and how does the professor ensure that >>>>>>>>> you did not cheat then? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their >>>>>>>>> office. >>>>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you >>>>>>>>> hired yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that >>>>>>>>> arrangement you worked out with your professor. The DSS office >>>>>>>>> only has authority if you give it to them by asking to take the >>>>>>>>> test in their >>>>>> office. >>>>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the >>>>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite >>>>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically >>>>>>>>> not quite in line with school policy. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree >>>>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing >>>>>>>>>> certificate. The class >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion. >>>>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college. >>>>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own readers. >>>>>>> Gosh. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and >>>>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me >>>>>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts >>>>>>>>>> and looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a >>>>>>>>>> reader to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the >>>>>>>>>> option >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the ADA. >>>>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower >>>>>>>>>> grade using bad readers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can >>>>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most >>>>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced >>>>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material >>>>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they >>>>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing >>>>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting >>>>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a >>>>>>>>>> community college, maybe the professor could read it for you and >>>>>>>>>> scribe your answers during office hours the day before the test or >>> some such? >>>>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for >>>>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent. >>>>>>>>>> Some disability services offices frown on this practice because >>>>>>>>>> they prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an >>>>>>>>>> option that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who >>>>>>>>>> might not >>>>>> care much. >>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but >>>>>>>>>>> when I >>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the >>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. >>>>>>>>>>> And then you interview them by having them read to you. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring >>>>>>>>>>>> between colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always >>>>>>>>>>>> provided me with >>>>>> competent >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words >>>>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud. I hope I >>>>>>>>>>>> don't run into the same problem you are dealing with right now >>>>>>>>>>>> and my next college. >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>>>> you get. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do >>>>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs? >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a >>>>>>>>>>>>> scantron, >>>>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my >>>>>>>>>>>>> readers were >>>>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak >>>>>>>>>>>> slower and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that >>>>>>>>>>>> clearly and read fast >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>> jaws >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can >>>>>>> directly >>>>>>>>>>>> mark >>>>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I >>>>>>>>>>>> missed. >>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another >>>>>>>>>>>>> message. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.c >>>>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>>> rthlink >>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>>> %40gmail >>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>>> net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> 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_______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com From annajee82 at gmail.com Wed May 1 02:33:39 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 21:33:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Office In-Reply-To: <6EB25E2244984EDD861DD12121E17A70@Gloria> References: <6EB25E2244984EDD861DD12121E17A70@Gloria> Message-ID: <496BA2D4-E18F-48DF-BDD1-DFB83AC653DF@gmail.com> I dont know much about this either, but i do know that at my university they sell MS office at a discounted price to students. So you may want to talk to the computer store on your campus, if u have such a thing. Anna Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2013, at 3:22 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi all, > I was wonderingi f anyone could tell me if there is it possible for college students to purchase the latest version of office at a discounted price, and if so where do I do this? I was also wondering, as a JAWs user, is there one version of office better than another? Sorry if this is a silly question, but I am not the most tech savvy person. I only know what I need to. Thanks in advance > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 1 03:31:17 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 23:31:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Office In-Reply-To: <496BA2D4-E18F-48DF-BDD1-DFB83AC653DF@gmail.com> References: <6EB25E2244984EDD861DD12121E17A70@Gloria> <496BA2D4-E18F-48DF-BDD1-DFB83AC653DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <61BD1CF1F55949D3B27707E46E4880D0@OwnerPC> I second that. My school also sells a discounted office suite package. -----Original Message----- From: Anna Givens Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Office I dont know much about this either, but i do know that at my university they sell MS office at a discounted price to students. So you may want to talk to the computer store on your campus, if u have such a thing. Anna Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2013, at 3:22 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi all, > I was wonderingi f anyone could tell me if there is it possible for > college students to purchase the latest version of office at a discounted > price, and if so where do I do this? I was also wondering, as a JAWs user, > is there one version of office better than another? Sorry if this is a > silly question, but I am not the most tech savvy person. I only know what > I need to. Thanks in advance > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed May 1 03:45:28 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 23:45:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Office In-Reply-To: <61BD1CF1F55949D3B27707E46E4880D0@OwnerPC> References: <6EB25E2244984EDD861DD12121E17A70@Gloria> <496BA2D4-E18F-48DF-BDD1-DFB83AC653DF@gmail.com> <61BD1CF1F55949D3B27707E46E4880D0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Some universities don't have a separate computer store, for example mine just falls under the umbrella of supplies and is handled by the bookstore and the actual computer department is just IT tech support. If you aren't sure how your university is set up I'd ask around or try one of the two places to see which one can sell the package to you. On 4/30/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I second that. > My school also sells a discounted office suite package. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anna Givens > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Office > > I dont know much about this either, but i do know that at my university they > > sell MS office at a discounted price to students. So you may want to talk > to the computer store on your campus, if u have such a thing. > > Anna > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 30, 2013, at 3:22 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I was wonderingi f anyone could tell me if there is it possible for >> college students to purchase the latest version of office at a discounted >> >> price, and if so where do I do this? I was also wondering, as a JAWs user, >> >> is there one version of office better than another? Sorry if this is a >> silly question, but I am not the most tech savvy person. I only know what >> >> I need to. Thanks in advance >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed May 1 03:59:32 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 23:59:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the test accomodations In-Reply-To: <56437545-CA01-469F-8C66-2CE294238750@gmail.com> References: <74BCED03928D4C569FE81FD4ACF3AF7D@OwnerPC> <56437545-CA01-469F-8C66-2CE294238750@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Certainly taking the tests in class is the least complicated route, although for Ashley it sounds like her office is uptight about a lot of things, monitoring how tests are administered and taken being one of them. Ashley, good for you for taking future students into account; it's unfortunate that you've had so many issues with the ds office at your school, but hopefully future students won't have these same issues. One point I'd like to clarify, is that it is possible to take a test on a BrailleNote, even if there is a scantron sheet. I did this all through high school and continue to do it when I have multiple choice questions in college. Basically as long as you can read the multiple choice answers you just write the letter down like this: 1. A. 2. B. 3. D. Although your school seems kind of uptight about doing even little things themselves, I've never had a problem with just handing a teacher or professor a print out or flashdrive with my test on it and them grading it from there. Some fill out the scantron sheet for me, which I've seen done and only takes them a few seconds. Others can just look at their answer key and grade directly off of your letter answers. It just depends on what method works best for them, but either way it shouldn't be a big deal. Also, about the embossing, they could definitely do something about it. My music department hired two students to transcribe braille music for me and they picked up on the software and how to use the embosser pretty quickly, and I think Duxberry is probably less complicated than Goodfeel for most visual people. They could even hire a student to do it; it would take the embossing responsibilities off of their hands, give a student an easy job, and give you the material you want or need in braille format. You would also be able to cut out the middle man of the ds office here, as you could directly correspond with the embosser to tell them what you need embossed and when. (E.G, when I need something embossed I either email an attachment or take my music to one of the guys who does my braille music transcription, and he'll either email me the electronic file back if I want to edit it or go through it on my computer, or give the embossed copy to me or to one of our professors to give to me in class if I'm not around.). From your descriptions of your ds office I'm not sure how receptive they would be to that idea, or if they even give students campus jobs at all, but it's a suggestion. On 4/30/13, Jane wrote: > Lots of tests I did via email or in offices, or sometimes in Learning Labs > that departments ran. Some classes had open book tests made for me, but > those were a lot harder than you'd think--and I wasn't the best person at > taking notes ... > > I used to take some of my American Lit tests in my professor's office. It > had its benefits--like bananas, or water, or crackers. Besides, the prof > could keep an eye on me and make sure I didn't go into labor (literally) in > his office. He would read me the test to copy down and then I'd have an hour > to answer the questions--just like the rest got. In lit classes, I either > knew the answers or I didn't. Actually, for most of my classes, I either > knew the material or I didn't. The only time I needed anything close to > extra time, that I can remember, was Math classes, and I tried not to use > that very often, because again, I either knew the steps to solve problems or > I didn't. I took advantage of extra time on Math finals, though, because the > prof explicitly told me he didn't mind if I did, and he wanted me to have a > good shot. You'd think it wouldn't take over two hours to do 25 problems, > but it did with my anxieties. Ad we're not talking about hard stuff, very > basic algebra, remedial math courses. > > Jane > > > > On Apr 30, 2013, at 10:14 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Arielle, >> That's a good idea if it works for you. I never have done exams in class >> in college; I need extended time >> and well it just did not seem fair to me to ask to do an exam on my >> personal equipment anyway. >> >> Anyway, I also like the idea of using a TA's office if your class has >> one. >> Thanks for sharing. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:02 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >> >> I've never taken a test in a professor's office; I've always done it >> in class with the other students, either on my Braille Note or laptop. >> One time I did the test in the teaching assistant's office on my >> Braille Note so she could describe diagrams to me. I know that's not >> an option for Ashley, but just putting out there for others. >> Arielle >> >> On 4/30/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> I've never used the braille note for tests as I said before. I was told >>> by >>> the school to go to the testing center and use their computer. >>> However, if I did use the Braille note, I'd >>> still need a reader to write my answers on a scantron. If it was essay, >>> I'd >>> >>> simply write the essay in the file. >>> >>> Also, I'm glad taking tests in the professor's office works for you. >>> However, when I requested to do this in the past, they say that they are >>> busy or something. >>> I agree with you that your way sounds uncomplicated. >>> >>> I'll definitely consider taking future exams in my professor's office >>> again >>> >>> if I take more classes; I should be finishing my certificate now though. >>> I could see that its easy; simply taking it on a notetaker or laptop. >>> >>> Regarding the brailling of the test, I agree with you. >>> The process is incredibly easy with Duxbury which is the software the >>> school >>> >>> has, or used to have. >>> Its not rocket science. >>> >>> The counselor should know a little about technology for blind people >>> having >>> >>> been a prior vr counselor at the department for the blind here. >>> When you said, >>> "Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the >>> process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she >>> knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable >>> to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special >>> training and that it won't take much of her time." >>> >>> I can certainly ask her about this. They have student worker staff in >>> the >>> counseling office and a student could convert it to braille with duxbury >>> from a Word file. >>> Personally, I think her claim that no one can braille it because the >>> assistive technology lab guy left is an excuse. >>> They could make braille happen if they wanted to with all the staff and >>> resources they have. >>> >>> I like the points you made about the ease of embossing and no special >>> technology knowledge needed. Great points. Maybe that will change their >>> mind >>> >>> for the next student that comes along and needs embossing. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kaiti Shelton >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:37 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>> >>> Hi Ashley, >>> >>> I agree with Kirt, Lillie, Arielle, Melissa, etc. >>> >>> My question is, if you do use the BrailleNote to read your test why >>> wouldn't you use it to write your answers as well. You could always >>> flip between the test document and your answer document with the 1 2 5 >>> 6 and space command, which would cut out the need to have a reader at >>> all. >>> >>> In addition to what has been said by others, I think the fewer number >>> of people you bring into the situation the easier it could be. For >>> example, if your professor would be okay with you using the notetaker >>> to read the test and just gave you a flashdrive with the test on it, >>> you could take the test in their office, put the answer sheet file on >>> the flash drive when you're done, and instantly hand the test back to >>> your professor. In my experiences this is the most uncomplicated way >>> of handling testing situations, and it also doesn't take other >>> unnecessary people to get the job done. Anyway, I was just curious. >>> >>> Also, another note adding to what Lillie said. Your office claims >>> there is no one to run the software to braille your stuff; have you >>> told them that all they need to do is take a document and click a few >>> buttons in Microsoft word and as long as the embosser is on they >>> really don't need some special person to do it? My university hired >>> an assistive technology specialist to help with things like checking >>> accessibility of the blackboard stuff, making sure my math turned out >>> to be doable, etc, and to do my brailling, but running an embosser is >>> by no means rocket science and I've even had students who work the >>> disability office desk and had never even embossed anything before >>> figure out where to click and emboss documents for me when she wasn't >>> available. Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the >>> process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she >>> knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable >>> to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special >>> training and that it won't take much of her time. >>> Good luck, from one final exam-taking student to another. >>> >>> On 4/30/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>> Ashley, >>>> >>>> A serial port should work for this. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>>> Public Relations Committee >>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>>> Bramlett >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:16 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> Lilly, >>>> I like that idea. I have an m'power. What cable do you use to hook a >>>> monitor >>>> to the notetaker? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Lillie Pennington >>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> Out of curiosity. Did the issue of having a monitor hooked up to your >>>> Braille note ever come up so the professor or whoever could see what >>>> you >>>> were doing and not cheating. I like that system as well. It can get >>>> dicey >>>> with graphics in the file or massive word banks. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course >>>>> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue >>>>> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a >>>>> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters >>>>> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated >>>>> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the >>>>> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have >>>>> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center >>>>> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors >>>>> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their >>>>> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone >>>>> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later. >>>>> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between >>>>> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a >>>>> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it >>>>> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated, >>>>> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is >>>>> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I >>>>> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of >>>>> using my Braille Note. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not, >>>>>> how do you read the exam? >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Kirt >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the >>>>>> test outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is >>>>>> as good as you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the >>>>>> very least? >>>>>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take >>>>>> their test >>>>>> >>>>>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the >>>>>> class takes it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want >>>>>>> to be thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these >>>>>>> types of problems. For example, if your taking another class like >>>>>>> this where you may want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it? >>>>>>> Would you be willing to pay with your own money for a Braille test? >>>>>>> You could look into getting your tests transcribed somehow. You >>>>>>> could talk to your future professors about this (you'd probably have >>>>>>> to make arrangements for them to somehow send the test off to make >>>>>>> sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you mentioning in >>>>>>> another email that you had a Braille note. How comfortable are you >>>>>>> with electronic files? The professor may have an electronic copy of >>>>>>> the test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from >>>>>>> there on your display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille >>>>>>> (sort of.) For these tests with the foreign language words, and >>>>>>> other tests in general, this could also iliminate the reader >>>>>>> problems your having. I don't know if any >>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I >>>>>>> was thinking of. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>>>>>> Bramlett >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Justin and everyone, >>>>>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of >>>>>>> hearing a reader state these words. >>>>>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the >>>>>>> braille production anymore; I don't know what the assistive >>>>>>> technology >>>> guy left. >>>>>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for >>>>>>> this. >>>>>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam >>>>>>> brailled last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to >>>>>>> work with. >>>>>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument >>>>>>> against braille was the following: >>>>>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read >>>>>>> the exam with jaws. >>>>>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam. >>>>>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not >>>>>>> necessary to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to >>>>>>> translate into braille because you have a means to access the exam >>>>>>> now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was a pr exam btw. >>>>>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough >>>>>>> time. >>>>>>> She would make the same arguments I believe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: justin williams >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM >>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At this point, why not. Not a bad idea. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne >>>>>>> Germano >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow >>>>>>> along with the reader? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman < >>>>>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out >>>>>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup, >>>>>>>> if the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow >>>>>>>> their rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll >>>>>>>> be willing to work something out with you that's fair. >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have >>>>>>>>> to use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you >>>>>>>>> step out of their office. >>>>>>>>> I don't know where other blind students have taken tests with >>>>>>>>> their private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a >>>>>>>>> designated testing room in the building where the class is, or you >>>>>>>>> could go to the professor's office hours and do it there while the >>>>>>>>> professor is around to ensure you don't cheat. >>>>>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who >>>>>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I >>>>>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my >>>>>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This >>>>>>>>> will help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then >>>>>>>>> you might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but >>>>>>>>> they're not binding on you as the student. The only one who really >>>>>>>>> has control over how you take tests is the professor. Some >>>>>>>>> professors give their entire classes online exams. That's their >>>>>>>>> right as professors >>>>>>> to do. >>>>>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader, >>>>>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other >>>>>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me >>>>>>>>>> arrange for >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam. >>>>>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this >>>>>>>>>> violates school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> policy. >>>>>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own >>>>>>>>>> readers for exams with no objection from the professor? Where >>>>>>>>>> would they take the exam and how does the professor ensure that >>>>>>>>>> you did not cheat then? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their >>>>>>>>>> office. >>>>>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you >>>>>>>>>> hired yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that >>>>>>>>>> arrangement you worked out with your professor. The DSS office >>>>>>>>>> only has authority if you give it to them by asking to take the >>>>>>>>>> test in their >>>>>>> office. >>>>>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the >>>>>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite >>>>>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically >>>>>>>>>> not quite in line with school policy. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree >>>>>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing >>>>>>>>>>> certificate. The class >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion. >>>>>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college. >>>>>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own >>>>>>>>>>> readers. >>>>>>>> Gosh. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and >>>>>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me >>>>>>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts >>>>>>>>>>> and looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a >>>>>>>>>>> reader to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the >>>>>>>>>>> option >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the >>>>>>>>>>> ADA. >>>>>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower >>>>>>>>>>> grade using bad readers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can >>>>>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most >>>>>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced >>>>>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material >>>>>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they >>>>>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing >>>>>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting >>>>>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a >>>>>>>>>>> community college, maybe the professor could read it for you and >>>>>>>>>>> scribe your answers during office hours the day before the test >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>> some such? >>>>>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for >>>>>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent. >>>>>>>>>>> Some disability services offices frown on this practice because >>>>>>>>>>> they prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an >>>>>>>>>>> option that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who >>>>>>>>>>> might not >>>>>>> care much. >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but >>>>>>>>>>>> when I >>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the >>>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. >>>>>>>>>>>> And then you interview them by having them read to you. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring >>>>>>>>>>>>> between colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always >>>>>>>>>>>>> provided me with >>>>>>> competent >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words >>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud. I hope I >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't run into the same problem you are dealing with right now >>>>>>>>>>>>> and my next college. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do >>>>>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> scantron, >>>>>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers were >>>>>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak >>>>>>>>>>>>> slower and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that >>>>>>>>>>>>> clearly and read fast >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can >>>>>>>> directly >>>>>>>>>>>>> mark >>>>>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I >>>>>>>>>>>>> missed. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> message. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail.c >>>>>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>>>> rthlink >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>>>> %40gmail >>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>>>> net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>>>> %40gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse. >>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>>> thlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%4 >>>>> 0fuse.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Wed May 1 05:03:35 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 01:03:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Dux Bury Program and a Braille Printer Message-ID: Hey! Kirt, this is Helga. I'm sorry for asking this dumb question. What do you mean when you say use a TA as a test reader? I'm just curious what the word TA mean? I actually never heard of the word abrebiation. Also, I just would like to ask you, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program and a Braille printer that is compatibel with the BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. Thanks for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) From sgermano at asu.edu Wed May 1 05:30:40 2013 From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 22:30:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Dux Bury Program and a Braille Printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: TA means teaching assistant most universities have undergraduate or graduate teaching assistants that help with class. They do most of the grading for the professor plus other things. On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Helga wrote: > Hey! Kirt, this is Helga. I'm sorry for asking this dumb question. What do > you mean when you say use a TA as a test reader? I'm just curious what the > word TA mean? I actually never heard of the word abrebiation. Also, I just > would like to ask you, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program and a > Braille printer that is compatibel with the BrailleNote apex for a cheap > price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because is > my > prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to > understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to > take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, this > semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very > challenging > for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me > was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was > helpful, > but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is not > English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of > words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told me that > she > would not buy me the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really > Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm > thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. > Thanks for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed May 1 12:25:17 2013 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 08:25:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the test accomodations In-Reply-To: <56437545-CA01-469F-8C66-2CE294238750@gmail.com> References: <74BCED03928D4C569FE81FD4ACF3AF7D@OwnerPC> <56437545-CA01-469F-8C66-2CE294238750@gmail.com> Message-ID: I had my instructor email the test to me and I would email my teacher another document with my answers. That worked out the best for me. I did use the extended time on the anatomy tests because it was impossible for me to get the test done in an hour. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jane Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations Lots of tests I did via email or in offices, or sometimes in Learning Labs that departments ran. Some classes had open book tests made for me, but those were a lot harder than you'd think--and I wasn't the best person at taking notes ... I used to take some of my American Lit tests in my professor's office. It had its benefits--like bananas, or water, or crackers. Besides, the prof could keep an eye on me and make sure I didn't go into labor (literally) in his office. He would read me the test to copy down and then I'd have an hour to answer the questions--just like the rest got. In lit classes, I either knew the answers or I didn't. Actually, for most of my classes, I either knew the material or I didn't. The only time I needed anything close to extra time, that I can remember, was Math classes, and I tried not to use that very often, because again, I either knew the steps to solve problems or I didn't. I took advantage of extra time on Math finals, though, because the prof explicitly told me he didn't mind if I did, and he wanted me to have a good shot. You'd think it wouldn't take over two hours to do 25 problems, but it did with my anxieties. Ad we're not talking about hard stuff, very basic algebra, remedial math courses. Jane On Apr 30, 2013, at 10:14 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Arielle, > That's a good idea if it works for you. I never have done exams in class in college; I need extended time > and well it just did not seem fair to me to ask to do an exam on my personal equipment anyway. > > Anyway, I also like the idea of using a TA's office if your class has one. > Thanks for sharing. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations > > I've never taken a test in a professor's office; I've always done it > in class with the other students, either on my Braille Note or laptop. > One time I did the test in the teaching assistant's office on my > Braille Note so she could describe diagrams to me. I know that's not > an option for Ashley, but just putting out there for others. > Arielle > > On 4/30/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Kaiti, >> I've never used the braille note for tests as I said before. I was told by >> the school to go to the testing center and use their computer. >> However, if I did use the Braille note, I'd >> still need a reader to write my answers on a scantron. If it was essay, I'd >> >> simply write the essay in the file. >> >> Also, I'm glad taking tests in the professor's office works for you. >> However, when I requested to do this in the past, they say that they are >> busy or something. >> I agree with you that your way sounds uncomplicated. >> >> I'll definitely consider taking future exams in my professor's office again >> >> if I take more classes; I should be finishing my certificate now though. >> I could see that its easy; simply taking it on a notetaker or laptop. >> >> Regarding the brailling of the test, I agree with you. >> The process is incredibly easy with Duxbury which is the software the school >> >> has, or used to have. >> Its not rocket science. >> >> The counselor should know a little about technology for blind people having >> >> been a prior vr counselor at the department for the blind here. >> When you said, >> "Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the >> process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she >> knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable >> to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special >> training and that it won't take much of her time." >> >> I can certainly ask her about this. They have student worker staff in the >> counseling office and a student could convert it to braille with duxbury >> from a Word file. >> Personally, I think her claim that no one can braille it because the >> assistive technology lab guy left is an excuse. >> They could make braille happen if they wanted to with all the staff and >> resources they have. >> >> I like the points you made about the ease of embossing and no special >> technology knowledge needed. Great points. Maybe that will change their mind >> >> for the next student that comes along and needs embossing. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton >> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:37 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >> >> Hi Ashley, >> >> I agree with Kirt, Lillie, Arielle, Melissa, etc. >> >> My question is, if you do use the BrailleNote to read your test why >> wouldn't you use it to write your answers as well. You could always >> flip between the test document and your answer document with the 1 2 5 >> 6 and space command, which would cut out the need to have a reader at >> all. >> >> In addition to what has been said by others, I think the fewer number >> of people you bring into the situation the easier it could be. For >> example, if your professor would be okay with you using the notetaker >> to read the test and just gave you a flashdrive with the test on it, >> you could take the test in their office, put the answer sheet file on >> the flash drive when you're done, and instantly hand the test back to >> your professor. In my experiences this is the most uncomplicated way >> of handling testing situations, and it also doesn't take other >> unnecessary people to get the job done. Anyway, I was just curious. >> >> Also, another note adding to what Lillie said. Your office claims >> there is no one to run the software to braille your stuff; have you >> told them that all they need to do is take a document and click a few >> buttons in Microsoft word and as long as the embosser is on they >> really don't need some special person to do it? My university hired >> an assistive technology specialist to help with things like checking >> accessibility of the blackboard stuff, making sure my math turned out >> to be doable, etc, and to do my brailling, but running an embosser is >> by no means rocket science and I've even had students who work the >> disability office desk and had never even embossed anything before >> figure out where to click and emboss documents for me when she wasn't >> available. Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the >> process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she >> knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable >> to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special >> training and that it won't take much of her time. >> Good luck, from one final exam-taking student to another. >> >> On 4/30/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Ashley, >>> >>> A serial port should work for this. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>> Bramlett >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:16 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>> >>> Lilly, >>> I like that idea. I have an m'power. What cable do you use to hook a >>> monitor >>> to the notetaker? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Lillie Pennington >>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>> >>> Out of curiosity. Did the issue of having a monitor hooked up to your >>> Braille note ever come up so the professor or whoever could see what you >>> were doing and not cheating. I like that system as well. It can get dicey >>> with graphics in the file or massive word banks. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course >>>> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue >>>> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a >>>> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters >>>> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated >>>> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the >>>> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have >>>> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center >>>> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors >>>> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their >>>> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone >>>> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later. >>>> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between >>>> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a >>>> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it >>>> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated, >>>> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is >>>> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I >>>> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of >>>> using my Braille Note. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Kirt, >>>>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not, >>>>> how do you read the exam? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Kirt >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>> >>>>> Ashley, >>>>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the >>>>> test outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is >>>>> as good as you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the >>>>> very least? >>>>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take >>>>> their test >>>>> >>>>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the >>>>> class takes it. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want >>>>>> to be thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these >>>>>> types of problems. For example, if your taking another class like >>>>>> this where you may want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it? >>>>>> Would you be willing to pay with your own money for a Braille test? >>>>>> You could look into getting your tests transcribed somehow. You >>>>>> could talk to your future professors about this (you'd probably have >>>>>> to make arrangements for them to somehow send the test off to make >>>>>> sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you mentioning in >>>>>> another email that you had a Braille note. How comfortable are you >>>>>> with electronic files? The professor may have an electronic copy of >>>>>> the test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from >>>>>> there on your display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille >>>>>> (sort of.) For these tests with the foreign language words, and >>>>>> other tests in general, this could also iliminate the reader >>>>>> problems your having. I don't know if any >>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I >>>>>> was thinking of. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>>>>> Bramlett >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Justin and everyone, >>>>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of >>>>>> hearing a reader state these words. >>>>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the >>>>>> braille production anymore; I don't know what the assistive technology >>> guy left. >>>>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for >>>>>> this. >>>>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam >>>>>> brailled last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to >>>>>> work with. >>>>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument >>>>>> against braille was the following: >>>>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read >>>>>> the exam with jaws. >>>>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam. >>>>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not >>>>>> necessary to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to >>>>>> translate into braille because you have a means to access the exam >>>>>> now. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was a pr exam btw. >>>>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough >>>>>> time. >>>>>> She would make the same arguments I believe. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: justin williams >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM >>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>> >>>>>> At this point, why not. Not a bad idea. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne >>>>>> Germano >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>> >>>>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow >>>>>> along with the reader? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman < >>>>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out >>>>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup, >>>>>>> if the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow >>>>>>> their rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll >>>>>>> be willing to work something out with you that's fair. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have >>>>>>>> to use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you >>>>>>>> step out of their office. >>>>>>>> I don't know where other blind students have taken tests with >>>>>>>> their private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a >>>>>>>> designated testing room in the building where the class is, or you >>>>>>>> could go to the professor's office hours and do it there while the >>>>>>>> professor is around to ensure you don't cheat. >>>>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who >>>>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I >>>>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my >>>>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This >>>>>>>> will help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then >>>>>>>> you might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but >>>>>>>> they're not binding on you as the student. The only one who really >>>>>>>> has control over how you take tests is the professor. Some >>>>>>>> professors give their entire classes online exams. That's their >>>>>>>> right as professors >>>>>> to do. >>>>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader, >>>>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other >>>>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me >>>>>>>>> arrange for >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam. >>>>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this >>>>>>>>> violates school >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> policy. >>>>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own >>>>>>>>> readers for exams with no objection from the professor? Where >>>>>>>>> would they take the exam and how does the professor ensure that >>>>>>>>> you did not cheat then? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their >>>>>>>>> office. >>>>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you >>>>>>>>> hired yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that >>>>>>>>> arrangement you worked out with your professor. The DSS office >>>>>>>>> only has authority if you give it to them by asking to take the >>>>>>>>> test in their >>>>>> office. >>>>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the >>>>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite >>>>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically >>>>>>>>> not quite in line with school policy. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree >>>>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing >>>>>>>>>> certificate. The class >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion. >>>>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college. >>>>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own readers. >>>>>>> Gosh. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and >>>>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me >>>>>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts >>>>>>>>>> and looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a >>>>>>>>>> reader to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the >>>>>>>>>> option >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the ADA. >>>>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower >>>>>>>>>> grade using bad readers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can >>>>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most >>>>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced >>>>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material >>>>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they >>>>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing >>>>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting >>>>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a >>>>>>>>>> community college, maybe the professor could read it for you and >>>>>>>>>> scribe your answers during office hours the day before the test or >>> some such? >>>>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for >>>>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent. >>>>>>>>>> Some disability services offices frown on this practice because >>>>>>>>>> they prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an >>>>>>>>>> option that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who >>>>>>>>>> might not >>>>>> care much. >>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but >>>>>>>>>>> when I >>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the >>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. >>>>>>>>>>> And then you interview them by having them read to you. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring >>>>>>>>>>>> between colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always >>>>>>>>>>>> provided me with >>>>>> competent >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words >>>>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud. I hope I >>>>>>>>>>>> don't run into the same problem you are dealing with right now >>>>>>>>>>>> and my next college. >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>>>> you get. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do >>>>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs? >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a >>>>>>>>>>>>> scantron, >>>>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my >>>>>>>>>>>>> readers were >>>>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak >>>>>>>>>>>> slower and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that >>>>>>>>>>>> clearly and read fast >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>> jaws >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can >>>>>>> directly >>>>>>>>>>>> mark >>>>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I >>>>>>>>>>>> missed. >>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another >>>>>>>>>>>>> message. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.c >>>>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>>> rthlink >>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>>> %40gmail >>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>>> net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>>> edu >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>>> %40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>>> net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse. >>>>>> net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>> thlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%4 >>>> 0fuse.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai l.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From agrima at nbp.org Wed May 1 13:45:40 2013 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 09:45:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Make the iPad accessible for the classroom! Message-ID: <007201ce4672$2b98e6e0$82cab4a0$@org> iOS Success: Making the iPad Accessible (http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/IPAD.html) A Guide for Teachers and Parents by Larry L. Lewis Large print edition: $28 Or in braille, eBraille, DAISY, ASCII, mp3, or Word: $20 Read the full Table of Contents! (http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/IPAD.html) iOS technology is a game changer. School districts across the country are purchasing and deploying iPads to students across grade levels - even integrating them into the classroom curriculum. But how many teachers and parents are ready to ensure that their blind students have equal access to all the iPad has to offer? iOS Success, written by a blind user and iPad instructor, gives step-by-step instructions for every pertinent accessibility feature the iPad has to offer - including getting acquainted with VoiceOver and Zoom, setting accessibility options, pairing external devices such as keyboards and refreshable braille displays, setting up Apple accounts to buy apps like iBooks, using the Cloud and Dropbox, and much, much more. The last chapter includes tips from blind students who use their iPads daily and one very committed parent who is mastering iOS technology alongside his blind sons. The book assumes the reader has never used an iPad, and it's written in plain English. Although it is geared to parents and teachers, there is plenty of useful advice for blind users as well. What are you waiting for? Join the iOS revolution! LARRY LEWIS, JR. is the founder and owner of Flying Blind, LLC, whose mission is to develop and market adaptive technology solutions for people who are blind. Lewis offers a daylong professional development seminar entitled, "The Apple Accessibility Initiative." Order the book - and read the table of contents. (http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/IPAD.html) ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html. From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed May 1 16:17:58 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 12:17:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the test accomodations In-Reply-To: References: <74BCED03928D4C569FE81FD4ACF3AF7D@OwnerPC> <56437545-CA01-469F-8C66-2CE294238750@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I have done the same. When I take tests in class I usually just have the prof email me the test, I complete it, and email it back to them. My psych prof actually came up with the even easier idea of pasting my test into the body of her email, which allows me to hit reply, fill in the blanks directly onto the test, and hit send right when I'm done. It's the closest thing to taking a print test sheet, filling it out, and handing it right back in. Good to know on the anatomy; I don't have to take a lab but I'm required to take the lecture, which probably will require a lot of diagram stuff for organs and what not. I'm looking into getting the Braille Anatomy Atlas though. On 5/1/13, Rania Ismail LMT wrote: > I had my instructor email the test to me and I would email my teacher > another document with my answers. > That worked out the best for me. > I did use the extended time on the anatomy tests because it was impossible > for me to get the test done in an hour. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jane > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations > > Lots of tests I did via email or in offices, or sometimes in Learning Labs > that departments ran. Some classes had open book tests made for me, but > those were a lot harder than you'd think--and I wasn't the best person at > taking notes ... > > I used to take some of my American Lit tests in my professor's office. It > had its benefits--like bananas, or water, or crackers. Besides, the prof > could keep an eye on me and make sure I didn't go into labor (literally) in > his office. He would read me the test to copy down and then I'd have an > hour > to answer the questions--just like the rest got. In lit classes, I either > knew the answers or I didn't. Actually, for most of my classes, I either > knew the material or I didn't. The only time I needed anything close to > extra time, that I can remember, was Math classes, and I tried not to use > that very often, because again, I either knew the steps to solve problems > or > I didn't. I took advantage of extra time on Math finals, though, because > the > prof explicitly told me he didn't mind if I did, and he wanted me to have a > good shot. You'd think it wouldn't take over two hours to do 25 problems, > but it did with my anxieties. Ad we're not talking about hard stuff, very > basic algebra, remedial math courses. > > Jane > > > > On Apr 30, 2013, at 10:14 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Arielle, >> That's a good idea if it works for you. I never have done exams in class > in college; I need extended time >> and well it just did not seem fair to me to ask to do an exam on my > personal equipment anyway. >> >> Anyway, I also like the idea of using a TA's office if your class has >> one. >> Thanks for sharing. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:02 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >> >> I've never taken a test in a professor's office; I've always done it >> in class with the other students, either on my Braille Note or laptop. >> One time I did the test in the teaching assistant's office on my >> Braille Note so she could describe diagrams to me. I know that's not >> an option for Ashley, but just putting out there for others. >> Arielle >> >> On 4/30/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> I've never used the braille note for tests as I said before. I was told > by >>> the school to go to the testing center and use their computer. >>> However, if I did use the Braille note, I'd >>> still need a reader to write my answers on a scantron. If it was essay, > I'd >>> >>> simply write the essay in the file. >>> >>> Also, I'm glad taking tests in the professor's office works for you. >>> However, when I requested to do this in the past, they say that they are >>> busy or something. >>> I agree with you that your way sounds uncomplicated. >>> >>> I'll definitely consider taking future exams in my professor's office > again >>> >>> if I take more classes; I should be finishing my certificate now though. >>> I could see that its easy; simply taking it on a notetaker or laptop. >>> >>> Regarding the brailling of the test, I agree with you. >>> The process is incredibly easy with Duxbury which is the software the > school >>> >>> has, or used to have. >>> Its not rocket science. >>> >>> The counselor should know a little about technology for blind people > having >>> >>> been a prior vr counselor at the department for the blind here. >>> When you said, >>> "Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the >>> process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she >>> knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable >>> to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special >>> training and that it won't take much of her time." >>> >>> I can certainly ask her about this. They have student worker staff in >>> the >>> counseling office and a student could convert it to braille with duxbury >>> from a Word file. >>> Personally, I think her claim that no one can braille it because the >>> assistive technology lab guy left is an excuse. >>> They could make braille happen if they wanted to with all the staff and >>> resources they have. >>> >>> I like the points you made about the ease of embossing and no special >>> technology knowledge needed. Great points. Maybe that will change their > mind >>> >>> for the next student that comes along and needs embossing. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kaiti Shelton >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:37 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>> >>> Hi Ashley, >>> >>> I agree with Kirt, Lillie, Arielle, Melissa, etc. >>> >>> My question is, if you do use the BrailleNote to read your test why >>> wouldn't you use it to write your answers as well. You could always >>> flip between the test document and your answer document with the 1 2 5 >>> 6 and space command, which would cut out the need to have a reader at >>> all. >>> >>> In addition to what has been said by others, I think the fewer number >>> of people you bring into the situation the easier it could be. For >>> example, if your professor would be okay with you using the notetaker >>> to read the test and just gave you a flashdrive with the test on it, >>> you could take the test in their office, put the answer sheet file on >>> the flash drive when you're done, and instantly hand the test back to >>> your professor. In my experiences this is the most uncomplicated way >>> of handling testing situations, and it also doesn't take other >>> unnecessary people to get the job done. Anyway, I was just curious. >>> >>> Also, another note adding to what Lillie said. Your office claims >>> there is no one to run the software to braille your stuff; have you >>> told them that all they need to do is take a document and click a few >>> buttons in Microsoft word and as long as the embosser is on they >>> really don't need some special person to do it? My university hired >>> an assistive technology specialist to help with things like checking >>> accessibility of the blackboard stuff, making sure my math turned out >>> to be doable, etc, and to do my brailling, but running an embosser is >>> by no means rocket science and I've even had students who work the >>> disability office desk and had never even embossed anything before >>> figure out where to click and emboss documents for me when she wasn't >>> available. Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the >>> process of embossing is? You might want to try asking her if she >>> knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable >>> to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special >>> training and that it won't take much of her time. >>> Good luck, from one final exam-taking student to another. >>> >>> On 4/30/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>> Ashley, >>>> >>>> A serial port should work for this. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>>> Public Relations Committee >>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>>> Bramlett >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:16 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> Lilly, >>>> I like that idea. I have an m'power. What cable do you use to hook a >>>> monitor >>>> to the notetaker? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Lillie Pennington >>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>> >>>> Out of curiosity. Did the issue of having a monitor hooked up to your >>>> Braille note ever come up so the professor or whoever could see what > you >>>> were doing and not cheating. I like that system as well. It can get > dicey >>>> with graphics in the file or massive word banks. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course >>>>> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue >>>>> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a >>>>> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters >>>>> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated >>>>> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the >>>>> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have >>>>> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center >>>>> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors >>>>> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their >>>>> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone >>>>> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later. >>>>> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between >>>>> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a >>>>> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it >>>>> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated, >>>>> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is >>>>> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I >>>>> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of >>>>> using my Braille Note. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not, >>>>>> how do you read the exam? >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Kirt >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the >>>>>> test outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is >>>>>> as good as you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the >>>>>> very least? >>>>>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take >>>>>> their test >>>>>> >>>>>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the >>>>>> class takes it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want >>>>>>> to be thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these >>>>>>> types of problems. For example, if your taking another class like >>>>>>> this where you may want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it? >>>>>>> Would you be willing to pay with your own money for a Braille test? >>>>>>> You could look into getting your tests transcribed somehow. You >>>>>>> could talk to your future professors about this (you'd probably have >>>>>>> to make arrangements for them to somehow send the test off to make >>>>>>> sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you mentioning in >>>>>>> another email that you had a Braille note. How comfortable are you >>>>>>> with electronic files? The professor may have an electronic copy of >>>>>>> the test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from >>>>>>> there on your display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille >>>>>>> (sort of.) For these tests with the foreign language words, and >>>>>>> other tests in general, this could also iliminate the reader >>>>>>> problems your having. I don't know if any >>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I >>>>>>> was thinking of. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley >>>>>>> Bramlett >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Justin and everyone, >>>>>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of >>>>>>> hearing a reader state these words. >>>>>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the >>>>>>> braille production anymore; I don't know what the assistive > technology >>>> guy left. >>>>>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for >>>>>>> this. >>>>>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam >>>>>>> brailled last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to >>>>>>> work with. >>>>>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument >>>>>>> against braille was the following: >>>>>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read >>>>>>> the exam with jaws. >>>>>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam. >>>>>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not >>>>>>> necessary to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to >>>>>>> translate into braille because you have a means to access the exam >>>>>>> now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was a pr exam btw. >>>>>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough >>>>>>> time. >>>>>>> She would make the same arguments I believe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: justin williams >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM >>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At this point, why not. Not a bad idea. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne >>>>>>> Germano >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow >>>>>>> along with the reader? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman < >>>>>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out >>>>>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup, >>>>>>>> if the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow >>>>>>>> their rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll >>>>>>>> be willing to work something out with you that's fair. >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have >>>>>>>>> to use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you >>>>>>>>> step out of their office. >>>>>>>>> I don't know where other blind students have taken tests with >>>>>>>>> their private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a >>>>>>>>> designated testing room in the building where the class is, or you >>>>>>>>> could go to the professor's office hours and do it there while the >>>>>>>>> professor is around to ensure you don't cheat. >>>>>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who >>>>>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I >>>>>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my >>>>>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This >>>>>>>>> will help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then >>>>>>>>> you might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but >>>>>>>>> they're not binding on you as the student. The only one who really >>>>>>>>> has control over how you take tests is the professor. Some >>>>>>>>> professors give their entire classes online exams. That's their >>>>>>>>> right as professors >>>>>>> to do. >>>>>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader, >>>>>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other >>>>>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me >>>>>>>>>> arrange for >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam. >>>>>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this >>>>>>>>>> violates school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> policy. >>>>>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own >>>>>>>>>> readers for exams with no objection from the professor? Where >>>>>>>>>> would they take the exam and how does the professor ensure that >>>>>>>>>> you did not cheat then? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their >>>>>>>>>> office. >>>>>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you >>>>>>>>>> hired yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that >>>>>>>>>> arrangement you worked out with your professor. The DSS office >>>>>>>>>> only has authority if you give it to them by asking to take the >>>>>>>>>> test in their >>>>>>> office. >>>>>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the >>>>>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite >>>>>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically >>>>>>>>>> not quite in line with school policy. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree >>>>>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing >>>>>>>>>>> certificate. The class >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion. >>>>>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college. >>>>>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own > readers. >>>>>>>> Gosh. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and >>>>>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me >>>>>>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts >>>>>>>>>>> and looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a >>>>>>>>>>> reader to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the >>>>>>>>>>> option >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the >>>>>>>>>>> ADA. >>>>>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower >>>>>>>>>>> grade using bad readers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can >>>>>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most >>>>>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced >>>>>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material >>>>>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they >>>>>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing >>>>>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting >>>>>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a >>>>>>>>>>> community college, maybe the professor could read it for you and >>>>>>>>>>> scribe your answers during office hours the day before the test > or >>>> some such? >>>>>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for >>>>>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent. >>>>>>>>>>> Some disability services offices frown on this practice because >>>>>>>>>>> they prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an >>>>>>>>>>> option that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who >>>>>>>>>>> might not >>>>>>> care much. >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but >>>>>>>>>>>> when I >>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the >>>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. >>>>>>>>>>>> And then you interview them by having them read to you. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring >>>>>>>>>>>>> between colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always >>>>>>>>>>>>> provided me with >>>>>>> competent >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words >>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud. I hope I >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't run into the same problem you are dealing with right now >>>>>>>>>>>>> and my next college. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do >>>>>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> scantron, >>>>>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers were >>>>>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak >>>>>>>>>>>>> slower and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that >>>>>>>>>>>>> clearly and read fast >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can >>>>>>>> directly >>>>>>>>>>>>> mark >>>>>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I >>>>>>>>>>>>> missed. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> message. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail.c >>>>>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>>>> rthlink >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>>>> %40gmail >>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>>>> net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu. >>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2 >>>>>>> %40gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse. >>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>>> thlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%4 >>>>> 0fuse.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai > l.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Wed May 1 21:55:25 2013 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 17:55:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading iOS Apps In-Reply-To: <51815849.5020808@gmail.com> References: <51815849.5020808@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Everyone: I can't believe it! This is wonderful news! I hadn't seen this on any of these lists so far, so I figured I'd share this message! Kerri ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rick Alfaro Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 14:00:41 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading iOS Apps To: viphone at googlegroups.com FYI, amazing news, totally unexpected. Best, Rick alfaro -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading iOS Apps Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 07:53:46 -0700 From: Russ Kiehne Reply-To: vi-kindle at freelists.org To: Vi-Kindle New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading iOS Apps May 1, 2013 6:06:07 AM PDT Kevin G. - Community Manager says: (AMAZON OFFICIAL) Today we announced new accessibility features for the Kindle reading app, making it easier than ever for blind and visually impaired customers to navigate their Kindle libraries, read and interact with their books, and more. These new features are available starting today on Kindle for iOS, and accessibility enhancements will be available on additional platforms in the future. New accessibility features of the Kindle app enable blind and visually impaired customers to: - Read aloud over 1.5 million titles available in the Kindle Store using Apple's VoiceOver technology. Over 300,000 of these books are exclusive to the Kindle Store. Over 700,000 books are less than $4.99; over a million are less than $9.99. - Seamlessly navigate within their library or within a book, with consistent title, menu and button names; navigate to a specific page within a book and sort books in the library by author or title. - Read character-by-character, word-by-word, line-by-line, or continuously, as well as move forward or backward in the text. - Search for a book within their library or search within their book and navigate to specific text. - Add and delete notes, bookmarks, and highlights. - Use customer-favorite features like X-Ray, End Actions and sharing on Facebook and Twitter. - Look up words in the dictionary and Wikipedia. - Customize the reading experience including changing the font, text size, background color, margin, and brightness. - Use iOS accessibility features like Zoom, Assistive Touch, and Stereo to Mono, as well as peripheral braille displays. Other new features include: - Easily rate and review books by accessing `Before you go...' directly from The `Go to' menu - Enhancements to `Before you go...' including the ability to download a free sample and email yourself a reminder about recommended books. - Additional Font Selection for Japan - Hiragino Mincho ProN (Serif) These new accessibility features are available first on the Kindle app for iOS and accessibility features will be added to other Kindle apps in the future. Customers can download the new Kindle for iOS app for free from the App Store on iPad, iPhone or iPod touch or at http://www.itunes.com/appstore. Blind and visually impaired customers interested in using a Kindle app can also choose Kindle for PC with Accessibility Plugin, a free application for Windows PC's. You can download a quick reference guide here: Kindle for iOS Accessibility Gestures - Quick Reference Guide If you need assistance with this update, please drop by the Kindle Help Forum - http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/forums/kindleqna/ref=kindle_help_forum_gd -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone at googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. From juanitatighan at gmail.com Wed May 1 22:02:03 2013 From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 18:02:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading iOS Apps In-Reply-To: References: <51815849.5020808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <083C8BD3-F903-4BAB-B578-63AFF91069EA@gmail.com> I thought about it, but I thought for sure someone else would have sent the message. I just love it! The amount of books available to us ha sjust really ... really ... really ... expanded! Jane On May 1, 2013, at 5:55 PM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi Everyone: > I can't believe it! > This is wonderful news! > I hadn't seen this on any of these lists so far, so I figured I'd > share this message! > Kerri > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Rick Alfaro > Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 14:00:41 -0400 > Subject: Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle > Reading iOS Apps > To: viphone at googlegroups.com > > FYI, amazing news, totally unexpected. > > > > Best, > > Rick alfaro > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading > iOS Apps > Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 07:53:46 -0700 > From: Russ Kiehne > Reply-To: vi-kindle at freelists.org > To: Vi-Kindle > > New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading iOS Apps > May 1, 2013 6:06:07 AM PDT > Kevin G. - Community Manager > says: > (AMAZON OFFICIAL) > Today we announced new accessibility features for the Kindle reading app, > making > it easier than ever for blind and visually impaired customers to navigate > their Kindle > libraries, read and interact with their books, and more. These new > features > are > available starting today on Kindle for iOS, and accessibility enhancements > will be > available on additional platforms in the future. > New accessibility features of the Kindle app enable blind and visually > impaired customers > to: > - Read aloud over 1.5 million titles available in the Kindle Store using > Apple's > VoiceOver technology. Over 300,000 of these books are exclusive to the > Kindle Store. > Over 700,000 books are less than $4.99; over a million are less than $9.99. > - Seamlessly navigate within their library or within a book, with > consistent title, > menu and button names; navigate to a specific page within a book and sort > books in > the library by author or title. > - Read character-by-character, word-by-word, line-by-line, or > continuously, as well > as move forward or backward in the text. > - Search for a book within their library or search within their book and > navigate > to specific text. > - Add and delete notes, bookmarks, and highlights. > - Use customer-favorite features like X-Ray, End Actions and sharing on > Facebook > and Twitter. > - Look up words in the dictionary and Wikipedia. > - Customize the reading experience including changing the font, text > size, background > color, margin, and brightness. > - Use iOS accessibility features like Zoom, Assistive Touch, and Stereo > to Mono, > as well as peripheral braille displays. > Other new features include: > - Easily rate and review books by accessing `Before you go...' directly > from The > `Go to' menu > - Enhancements to `Before you go...' including the ability to download a > free sample > and email yourself a reminder about recommended books. > - Additional Font Selection for Japan - Hiragino Mincho ProN (Serif) > These new accessibility features are available first on the Kindle app for > iOS and > accessibility features will be added to other Kindle apps in the future. > Customers > can download the new Kindle for iOS app for free from the App Store on > iPad, > iPhone > or iPod touch or at http://www.itunes.com/appstore. Blind and visually > impaired > customers interested in using a Kindle app can also choose Kindle for PC > with Accessibility > Plugin, a free application for Windows PC's. > You can download a quick reference guide here: > Kindle for iOS Accessibility Gestures - Quick Reference Guide > If you need assistance with this update, please drop by the Kindle Help > Forum - > http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/forums/kindleqna/ref=kindle_help_forum_gd > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone at googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed May 1 22:35:11 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 15:35:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to FreeKindle Reading iOS Apps In-Reply-To: <083C8BD3-F903-4BAB-B578-63AFF91069EA@gmail.com> References: <51815849.5020808@gmail.com> <083C8BD3-F903-4BAB-B578-63AFF91069EA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04A41908995F472F946C73EF8F6CE036@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Does anyone know if you can use your own TTS voices? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Jane Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 3:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to FreeKindle Reading iOS Apps I thought about it, but I thought for sure someone else would have sent the message. I just love it! The amount of books available to us ha sjust really ... really ... really ... expanded! Jane On May 1, 2013, at 5:55 PM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi Everyone: > I can't believe it! > This is wonderful news! > I hadn't seen this on any of these lists so far, so I figured I'd > share this message! > Kerri > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Rick Alfaro > Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 14:00:41 -0400 > Subject: Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle > Reading iOS Apps > To: viphone at googlegroups.com > > FYI, amazing news, totally unexpected. > > > > Best, > > Rick alfaro > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading > iOS Apps > Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 07:53:46 -0700 > From: Russ Kiehne > Reply-To: vi-kindle at freelists.org > To: Vi-Kindle > > New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading iOS Apps > May 1, 2013 6:06:07 AM PDT > Kevin G. - Community Manager > says: > (AMAZON OFFICIAL) > Today we announced new accessibility features for the Kindle reading app, > making > it easier than ever for blind and visually impaired customers to navigate > their Kindle > libraries, read and interact with their books, and more. These new > features > are > available starting today on Kindle for iOS, and accessibility enhancements > will be > available on additional platforms in the future. > New accessibility features of the Kindle app enable blind and visually > impaired customers > to: > - Read aloud over 1.5 million titles available in the Kindle Store > using > Apple's > VoiceOver technology. Over 300,000 of these books are exclusive to the > Kindle Store. > Over 700,000 books are less than $4.99; over a million are less than > $9.99. > - Seamlessly navigate within their library or within a book, with > consistent title, > menu and button names; navigate to a specific page within a book and sort > books in > the library by author or title. > - Read character-by-character, word-by-word, line-by-line, or > continuously, as well > as move forward or backward in the text. > - Search for a book within their library or search within their book > and > navigate > to specific text. > - Add and delete notes, bookmarks, and highlights. > - Use customer-favorite features like X-Ray, End Actions and sharing on > Facebook > and Twitter. > - Look up words in the dictionary and Wikipedia. > - Customize the reading experience including changing the font, text > size, background > color, margin, and brightness. > - Use iOS accessibility features like Zoom, Assistive Touch, and Stereo > to Mono, > as well as peripheral braille displays. > Other new features include: > - Easily rate and review books by accessing `Before you go...' directly > from The > `Go to' menu > - Enhancements to `Before you go...' including the ability to download > a > free sample > and email yourself a reminder about recommended books. > - Additional Font Selection for Japan - Hiragino Mincho ProN (Serif) > These new accessibility features are available first on the Kindle app for > iOS and > accessibility features will be added to other Kindle apps in the future. > Customers > can download the new Kindle for iOS app for free from the App Store on > iPad, > iPhone > or iPod touch or at http://www.itunes.com/appstore. Blind and visually > impaired > customers interested in using a Kindle app can also choose Kindle for PC > with Accessibility > Plugin, a free application for Windows PC's. > You can download a quick reference guide here: > Kindle for iOS Accessibility Gestures - Quick Reference Guide > If you need assistance with this update, please drop by the Kindle Help > Forum - > http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/forums/kindleqna/ref=kindle_help_forum_gd > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone at googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From juanitatighan at gmail.com Wed May 1 22:50:56 2013 From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 18:50:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to FreeKindle Reading iOS Apps In-Reply-To: <04A41908995F472F946C73EF8F6CE036@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <51815849.5020808@gmail.com> <083C8BD3-F903-4BAB-B578-63AFF91069EA@gmail.com> <04A41908995F472F946C73EF8F6CE036@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Just the VoicOver voices. Jane On May 1, 2013, at 6:35 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > Does anyone know if you can use your own TTS voices? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Jane > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 3:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to FreeKindle Reading iOS Apps > > I thought about it, but I thought for sure someone else would have sent the message. > > I just love it! The amount of books available to us ha sjust really ... really ... really ... expanded! > > Jane > > > > > On May 1, 2013, at 5:55 PM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > >> Hi Everyone: >> I can't believe it! >> This is wonderful news! >> I hadn't seen this on any of these lists so far, so I figured I'd >> share this message! >> Kerri >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Rick Alfaro >> Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 14:00:41 -0400 >> Subject: Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle >> Reading iOS Apps >> To: viphone at googlegroups.com >> >> FYI, amazing news, totally unexpected. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Rick alfaro >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading >> iOS Apps >> Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 07:53:46 -0700 >> From: Russ Kiehne >> Reply-To: vi-kindle at freelists.org >> To: Vi-Kindle >> >> New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading iOS Apps >> May 1, 2013 6:06:07 AM PDT >> Kevin G. - Community Manager >> says: >> (AMAZON OFFICIAL) >> Today we announced new accessibility features for the Kindle reading app, >> making >> it easier than ever for blind and visually impaired customers to navigate >> their Kindle >> libraries, read and interact with their books, and more. These new >> features >> are >> available starting today on Kindle for iOS, and accessibility enhancements >> will be >> available on additional platforms in the future. >> New accessibility features of the Kindle app enable blind and visually >> impaired customers >> to: >> - Read aloud over 1.5 million titles available in the Kindle Store using >> Apple's >> VoiceOver technology. Over 300,000 of these books are exclusive to the >> Kindle Store. >> Over 700,000 books are less than $4.99; over a million are less than $9.99. >> - Seamlessly navigate within their library or within a book, with >> consistent title, >> menu and button names; navigate to a specific page within a book and sort >> books in >> the library by author or title. >> - Read character-by-character, word-by-word, line-by-line, or >> continuously, as well >> as move forward or backward in the text. >> - Search for a book within their library or search within their book and >> navigate >> to specific text. >> - Add and delete notes, bookmarks, and highlights. >> - Use customer-favorite features like X-Ray, End Actions and sharing on >> Facebook >> and Twitter. >> - Look up words in the dictionary and Wikipedia. >> - Customize the reading experience including changing the font, text >> size, background >> color, margin, and brightness. >> - Use iOS accessibility features like Zoom, Assistive Touch, and Stereo >> to Mono, >> as well as peripheral braille displays. >> Other new features include: >> - Easily rate and review books by accessing `Before you go...' directly >> from The >> `Go to' menu >> - Enhancements to `Before you go...' including the ability to download a >> free sample >> and email yourself a reminder about recommended books. >> - Additional Font Selection for Japan - Hiragino Mincho ProN (Serif) >> These new accessibility features are available first on the Kindle app for >> iOS and >> accessibility features will be added to other Kindle apps in the future. >> Customers >> can download the new Kindle for iOS app for free from the App Store on >> iPad, >> iPhone >> or iPod touch or at http://www.itunes.com/appstore. Blind and visually >> impaired >> customers interested in using a Kindle app can also choose Kindle for PC >> with Accessibility >> Plugin, a free application for Windows PC's. >> You can download a quick reference guide here: >> Kindle for iOS Accessibility Gestures - Quick Reference Guide >> If you need assistance with this update, please drop by the Kindle Help >> Forum - >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/forums/kindleqna/ref=kindle_help_forum_gd >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone at googlegroups.com/. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone at googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Wed May 1 23:04:53 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 19:04:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to FreeKindle Reading iOS Apps In-Reply-To: <04A41908995F472F946C73EF8F6CE036@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <51815849.5020808@gmail.com> <083C8BD3-F903-4BAB-B578-63AFF91069EA@gmail.com> <04A41908995F472F946C73EF8F6CE036@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <97F0E8C0-5E3C-4D25-850B-8566518A1B23@gmail.com> According to another list, which I will not reference here, no, you can only use the built in voiceover voice is on the phone. Sent from my iPhone On May 1, 2013, at 6:35 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > Does anyone know if you can use your own TTS voices? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Jane > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 3:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to FreeKindle Reading iOS Apps > > I thought about it, but I thought for sure someone else would have sent the message. > > I just love it! The amount of books available to us ha sjust really ... really ... really ... expanded! > > Jane > > > > > On May 1, 2013, at 5:55 PM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > >> Hi Everyone: >> I can't believe it! >> This is wonderful news! >> I hadn't seen this on any of these lists so far, so I figured I'd >> share this message! >> Kerri >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Rick Alfaro >> Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 14:00:41 -0400 >> Subject: Fwd: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle >> Reading iOS Apps >> To: viphone at googlegroups.com >> >> FYI, amazing news, totally unexpected. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Rick alfaro >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: [vi-kindle] New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading >> iOS Apps >> Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 07:53:46 -0700 >> From: Russ Kiehne >> Reply-To: vi-kindle at freelists.org >> To: Vi-Kindle >> >> New Accessibility Features to Free Kindle Reading iOS Apps >> May 1, 2013 6:06:07 AM PDT >> Kevin G. - Community Manager >> says: >> (AMAZON OFFICIAL) >> Today we announced new accessibility features for the Kindle reading app, >> making >> it easier than ever for blind and visually impaired customers to navigate >> their Kindle >> libraries, read and interact with their books, and more. These new >> features >> are >> available starting today on Kindle for iOS, and accessibility enhancements >> will be >> available on additional platforms in the future. >> New accessibility features of the Kindle app enable blind and visually >> impaired customers >> to: >> - Read aloud over 1.5 million titles available in the Kindle Store using >> Apple's >> VoiceOver technology. Over 300,000 of these books are exclusive to the >> Kindle Store. >> Over 700,000 books are less than $4.99; over a million are less than $9.99. >> - Seamlessly navigate within their library or within a book, with >> consistent title, >> menu and button names; navigate to a specific page within a book and sort >> books in >> the library by author or title. >> - Read character-by-character, word-by-word, line-by-line, or >> continuously, as well >> as move forward or backward in the text. >> - Search for a book within their library or search within their book and >> navigate >> to specific text. >> - Add and delete notes, bookmarks, and highlights. >> - Use customer-favorite features like X-Ray, End Actions and sharing on >> Facebook >> and Twitter. >> - Look up words in the dictionary and Wikipedia. >> - Customize the reading experience including changing the font, text >> size, background >> color, margin, and brightness. >> - Use iOS accessibility features like Zoom, Assistive Touch, and Stereo >> to Mono, >> as well as peripheral braille displays. >> Other new features include: >> - Easily rate and review books by accessing `Before you go...' directly >> from The >> `Go to' menu >> - Enhancements to `Before you go...' including the ability to download a >> free sample >> and email yourself a reminder about recommended books. >> - Additional Font Selection for Japan - Hiragino Mincho ProN (Serif) >> These new accessibility features are available first on the Kindle app for >> iOS and >> accessibility features will be added to other Kindle apps in the future. >> Customers >> can download the new Kindle for iOS app for free from the App Store on >> iPad, >> iPhone >> or iPod touch or at http://www.itunes.com/appstore. Blind and visually >> impaired >> customers interested in using a Kindle app can also choose Kindle for PC >> with Accessibility >> Plugin, a free application for Windows PC's. >> You can download a quick reference guide here: >> Kindle for iOS Accessibility Gestures - Quick Reference Guide >> If you need assistance with this update, please drop by the Kindle Help >> Forum - >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/forums/kindleqna/ref=kindle_help_forum_gd >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone at googlegroups.com/. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone at googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 1 23:21:21 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 19:21:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Office In-Reply-To: References: <6EB25E2244984EDD861DD12121E17A70@Gloria><496BA2D4-E18F-48DF-BDD1-DFB83AC653DF@gmail.com><61BD1CF1F55949D3B27707E46E4880D0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: every school is different. In my case the bookstore sells supplies including computer software. -----Original Message----- From: Kaiti Shelton Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Office Some universities don't have a separate computer store, for example mine just falls under the umbrella of supplies and is handled by the bookstore and the actual computer department is just IT tech support. If you aren't sure how your university is set up I'd ask around or try one of the two places to see which one can sell the package to you. On 4/30/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I second that. > My school also sells a discounted office suite package. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anna Givens > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Office > > I dont know much about this either, but i do know that at my university > they > > sell MS office at a discounted price to students. So you may want to talk > to the computer store on your campus, if u have such a thing. > > Anna > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 30, 2013, at 3:22 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I was wonderingi f anyone could tell me if there is it possible for >> college students to purchase the latest version of office at a discounted >> >> price, and if so where do I do this? I was also wondering, as a JAWs >> user, >> >> is there one version of office better than another? Sorry if this is a >> silly question, but I am not the most tech savvy person. I only know what >> >> I need to. Thanks in advance >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed May 1 23:51:19 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 17:51:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [SDS] Call for Participants: Physical Disabilities and Identities of Resistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Stacey Coffman-Rosen Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 10:21:48 -0400 Subject: [SDS] Call for Participants: Physical Disabilities and Identities of Resistance To: sds-discuss at lists.disstudies.org My name is Stacey Coffman-Rosen and I am currently conducting research for my Ph.D. degree in human development at Fielding Graduate University, Santa Barbara, CA. Judith Stevens-Long, Ph.D. is supervising my dissertation study. I am interested in adult social identity formation and development in women, specifically women who view disability as a positive aspect of self despite stigma, oppression, and ableism. This research may impact the process and understanding of social identity development in the lives of women with physical disability. Through narrative inquiry (life stories), disabled women’s voices will be heard in both their complexity and discursiveness. These voices are not the passive stereotypes of disability, but an emerging resistance that may potentially revolutionize how women with disabilities feel about their lives, bodies, and ultimately, themselves. I hope that the knowledge shared by participants will help advance knowledge in disability studies and influence mental health practitioners. This study will include women between ages 18-50 who (1) have a visible physical impairment; (2) self identify as disabled; (3) consider disability an important part of their identity or self concept; and (4) were diagnosed with a physical impairment by the age of 6. I am particularly interested in a diverse sample including women who identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual, queer, or questioning (GLBQ) and/or women who identify as ethnic minorities. Women who meet either or both criteria are especially encouraged to participate. Interview questions will be provided in advance and individual participant communication styles will be accommodated. Please contact me with any questions or concerns regarding this study or the protection of privacy. This is a Fielding Graduate University IRB approved study. If you are interested in participating in this research and meet the criteria described above, please contact me directly using the contact information below: By email: scoffman at email.fielding.edu -- Stacey L. Coffman, MA Human Development Doctoral Student Fielding Graduate University Cell: (407) 310-4214 From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Thu May 2 02:50:14 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 22:50:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Message-ID: Hi all, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program and a Braille printer that is compatibel with the BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) From annajee82 at gmail.com Thu May 2 03:12:34 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 22:12:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16DDC2BA-BD35-4EA0-8842-D706CDE35905@gmail.com> Helga, I do not know much about it, but my understanding is that braille printers are very expensive, and most people I know dont have one for that reason. Hopefully some other people will chime in on this. You can always look stuff up online when all else fails. Anna Sent from my iPhone On May 1, 2013, at 9:50 PM, "Helga" wrote: > Hi all, this is Helga. I just > would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program and a > Braille printer that is compatibel with the BrailleNote apex for a cheap > price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because is my > prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to > understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to > take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, this > semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging > for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me > was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, > but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is not > English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of > words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she > would not buy me the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really > Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm > thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. > Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu May 2 03:57:39 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 23:57:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <16DDC2BA-BD35-4EA0-8842-D706CDE35905@gmail.com> References: <16DDC2BA-BD35-4EA0-8842-D706CDE35905@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Helga, Do you use the braille display on your Apex? It's not the same as hard copy braille in the sense that it's not tangible persay, but all the same the braille is there. Most people don't use the braille embossers much when they have refreshable displays is because they're very expensive as Anna said,, and because the braille can already be read on the Apex itself. Have you tried reading that way? Hope this helps. On 5/1/13, Anna Givens wrote: > Helga, I do not know much about it, but my understanding is that braille > printers are very expensive, and most people I know dont have one for that > reason. Hopefully some other people will chime in on this. You can always > look stuff up online when all else fails. > > Anna > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 1, 2013, at 9:50 PM, "Helga" wrote: > >> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program >> and a >> Braille printer that is compatibel with the BrailleNote apex for a cheap >> price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because is >> my >> prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to >> >> understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need >> to >> take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, this >> semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very >> challenging >> for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided >> me >> was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was >> helpful, >> but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is not >> English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of >> >> words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told me that >> she >> would not buy me the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really >> Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since >> I'm >> thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. >> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dandrews at visi.com Thu May 2 07:46:56 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 02:46:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Call for Applicants for Summer Leadership Training Seminar in New York Message-ID: > >Calling applicants to the 2013 Summer Leadership Training Seminar in > > New York during August 12th through the 14th. We are looking for 30 > > intelligent, driven, and passionate university students with > > disabilities looking to be leaders in their campuses and communities. > > The two night three day seminar will involve multiple hands-on > > workshops with disability rights activists who may teach from > > experience. Participants will then be equipped with the knowledge and > > energy to lead their own campus wide campaigns promoting full rights, > > pay, and integration for all persons. If you are interested in being a > > leader who makes great change while working with famous rights > > activists and many driven peers, we strongly encourage you to apply. > > Please email the attached application form to >njabstudents at gmail.com. > > For questions email New Jersey Association of Blind Students > > President, Shafeka Hashash, at >snh278 at nyu.edu. > >In solidarity, > > The New Jersey Association of Blind Students > >Content-Type: >application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document; > name="Summer Leadership Seminar 2013 Student Application Form.docx" >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Summer Leadership Seminar 2013 Student > Application Form.docx" >X-Attachment-Id: file0 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Summer Leadership Seminar 2013 Student Application Form.docx Type: application/mac-binhex40 Size: 29913 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu May 2 10:10:56 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 03:10:56 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing the NABS mentoring program Message-ID: <1C0CA936-395C-43BB-8777-F33463B0BC89@gmail.com> Greetings: The National Association of Blind Students is excited to announce that we will be hosting a mentoring program as part of the activities for students at the 2013 NFB national convention, being held in Orlando Florida from July 1 to July6. We will be pairing students up with one-on-one student mentors who are experienced with national convention and, ideally, share professional and other interests. I know, this sounds great. But, to make it work, we need your participation! We are looking for folks who would be interested in having, or serving as, a student mentor during the week of convention. When selecting mentees, we will give preference to first-time convention attendees. But if there is enough space, we would like to open it up to those of you who have already attended a convention as well. In order to be a mentee, you must: Be a high school junior or senior, or a current college or graduate student (nontraditional students are welcome); and Be available to attend a welcome meeting with us on Monday, July 1 from 6:00-7:30 p.m. If you want to apply to become a mentee, please fill out a short survey at: http://nabslink.org/drupal/content/mentee-form In order to be a mentor, you must: Have attended at least one NFB convention before; Be a current college or graduate student, or have graduated within the last two years (nontraditional students are welcome); and Be available to attend a welcome meeting with us on Monday, July 1 from 6:00-7:30 p.m., and then be willing to spend some time with your mentee throughout the week. If you want to apply to become a mentor, please fill out a short survey at: http://nabslink.org/drupal/content/mentor-form Please share this with your friends or anybody who might be interested. Thank you for your interest in this new NABS program! Darian Smith 2nd Vice President, National Association of Blind Students dsmithnfb at gmail.com www.nabslink.org Follow the National Association of Blind Students on twitter: @nabslink From dburke at cocenter.org Thu May 2 14:54:11 2013 From: dburke at cocenter.org (Dan Burke) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 08:54:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003901ce4744$e96aec90$bc40c5b0$@cocenter.org> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student ... I worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want it. They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a format other than PDF. And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is something they are required to provide. Good luck! Best, Dan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Hi all, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu May 2 16:42:41 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 10:42:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <003901ce4744$e96aec90$bc40c5b0$@cocenter.org> References: <003901ce4744$e96aec90$bc40c5b0$@cocenter.org> Message-ID: Helga, I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need an embosser instead of just the braille note. Hope that helps, Kirt On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: > If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student ... I worked > for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of years I > supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. > > First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books > available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or that > can > be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. > > Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may need to > give you a better format. They would need to do that f Braille is your > preferred format and there is a compelling reason that PDF isn't good > enough. That English is your second language and that your major requires > reading and comprehending complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is > a > compelling argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS > office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want it. > They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is not > available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work ahead of you > turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. > > Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. > > With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could read > it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is likely that > the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. > With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper > Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to press > the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in other > words, > a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a format other than > PDF. > > And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are expensive > just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are pretty good. If > they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to do so on the basis > that it isn't related to your vocational goal. They can't say it's too > expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. > Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking your VR > counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is something they > are required to provide. > > Good luck! > > Best, > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hi all, this is Helga. I just > would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program > and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote apex for a > cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille > because > is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are > hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I > need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, > this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very > challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS > provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It > was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first > Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my > comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and > she > told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very > expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really > help > me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the > Fall semester. > Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Thu May 2 18:57:48 2013 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:57:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question on a Braille sign in Calculus In-Reply-To: References: <000901ce4080$11e27b50$35a771f0$@com><8D01357034BB7CE-14E8-6716@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com><84384E2D02434FC2A0B05CEBB82421BE@EmilyDesktopPC> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE39E@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> I think it's a dot 2 but I may be wrong about that. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question on a Braille sign in Calculus Yes that's how I would write it. Arielle On 4/29/13, Emily Pennington wrote: > Hi, Miso. > I took Calc last year, and y-prime would be written as y followed by a > dot 3, I believe. > > Good luck, > Emily > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miso Kwak" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:13 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Question on a Braille sign in Calculus > > >> Hello, I am currently studying basic calculus as a part of >> trig/precalc class curriculum. >> >> I do not own Nemeth guide in an accessible formant neither I have >> calculus >> >> textbook formally brailled. (The teacher just uses worksheets which >> are brailled by but I don't think all nemeth code is correctly used) >> In calculus there is a thing we read as "y prime". How would I write >> that >> >> in Braille? >> I would appreciate your help. >> Miso >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/emilypennington%4 >> 0fuse.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From annajee82 at gmail.com Thu May 2 19:37:50 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:37:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <003901ce4744$e96aec90$bc40c5b0$@cocenter.org> References: <003901ce4744$e96aec90$bc40c5b0$@cocenter.org> Message-ID: <03E2E271-51D5-45D0-8371-B11F229A774F@gmail.com> Thanks Dan, it is good to hear on that issue from someone who has been on the other side of these things! Anna Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 9:54 AM, "Dan Burke" wrote: > If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student ... I worked > for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of years I > supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. > > First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books > available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or that can > be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. > > Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may need to > give you a better format. They would need to do that f Braille is your > preferred format and there is a compelling reason that PDF isn't good > enough. That English is your second language and that your major requires > reading and comprehending complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is a > compelling argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS > office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want it. > They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is not > available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work ahead of you > turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. > > Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. > > With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could read > it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is likely that > the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. > With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper > Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to press > the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in other words, > a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a format other than > PDF. > > And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are expensive > just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are pretty good. If > they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to do so on the basis > that it isn't related to your vocational goal. They can't say it's too > expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. > Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking your VR > counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is something they > are required to provide. > > Good luck! > > Best, > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hi all, this is Helga. I just > would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program > and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote apex for a > cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because > is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are > hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I > need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, > this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very > challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS > provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It > was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first > Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my > comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she > told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very > expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help > me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the > Fall semester. > Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu May 2 20:27:49 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 15:27:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Message-ID: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just making a point. Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want it. They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a format other than PDF. And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is something they are required to provide. Good luck! Best, Dan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Hi all, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce nter.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud e%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu May 2 21:05:35 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:05:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello, Poetry is probably the only class you will want to consider reading the words in a hard copy. The refreshable Braille display is perfectly built for continuous reading. If you are a musician, in particular a vocalist, I would say you would really want to use an embosser, but that is only because in order to read one line of music, one needs to read 3 lines or more at the same time. But even still there are people who manage to use a Braille display for that. I have been rash and bought pieces of expensive equipment I have not used, so if I were you, I'd be very cautious and even manage to try out the equipment for a week or so to see how you like it. If you are going to be reading the book once, then placing it on your bookshelf, embossed books will become very cumbersome very fast. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 1:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just making a point. Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want it. They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a format other than PDF. And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is something they are required to provide. Good luck! Best, Dan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Hi all, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce nter.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud e%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From dburke at cocenter.org Thu May 2 21:43:14 2013 From: dburke at cocenter.org (Dan Burke) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 15:43:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00aa01ce477e$0df981f0$29ec85d0$@cocenter.org> Mr. Biggs thank you for your comment about poetry in Braille. I confess that is one of my personal passions, and the only effective way to read poetry for a blind person is in Braille. Certainly not a recording from Learning Ally or a PDF with JAWS. Again an excellent argument in favor of a more flexible format that can be converted to Braille or read with a Braille display. While there are great advantages to reading poetry with paper Braille, I have read the vast majority of it as blind person on a refreshable Braille display. There are a couple of advantages of doing so, I think, as a student. First, I used rich text files and brf files. These are fairly generic and work on any note taker or in any platform or word processor. But you can also make notes or annotations in the text if you are so inclined. Best, Dan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 3:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Hello, Poetry is probably the only class you will want to consider reading the words in a hard copy. The refreshable Braille display is perfectly built for continuous reading. If you are a musician, in particular a vocalist, I would say you would really want to use an embosser, but that is only because in order to read one line of music, one needs to read 3 lines or more at the same time. But even still there are people who manage to use a Braille display for that. I have been rash and bought pieces of expensive equipment I have not used, so if I were you, I'd be very cautious and even manage to try out the equipment for a week or so to see how you like it. If you are going to be reading the book once, then placing it on your bookshelf, embossed books will become very cumbersome very fast. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 1:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just making a point. Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want it. They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a format other than PDF. And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is something they are required to provide. Good luck! Best, Dan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Hi all, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce nter.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud e%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org From brlsurfer at gmail.com Fri May 3 00:11:04 2013 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 17:11:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode Message-ID: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> Hi, I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use my finger, also. Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in the app-switcher. I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? Vejas From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 3 00:15:54 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 20:15:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode In-Reply-To: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> References: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <-6603117085149275438@unknownmsgid> Try turning the iPhone off and back on again. Actually, you can set the triple click home setting without help, assuming that voiceover is turned on. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 8:12 PM, vejas wrote: > > Hi, > I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use my finger, also. > Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in the app-switcher. > I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. > Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? > Vejas > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri May 3 00:27:28 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 20:27:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode In-Reply-To: <-6603117085149275438@unknownmsgid> References: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> <-6603117085149275438@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Right… But she said she doesn't like to Reboot… Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 8:15 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Try turning the iPhone off and back on again. Actually, you can set > the triple click home setting without help, assuming that voiceover is > turned on. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 2, 2013, at 8:12 PM, vejas wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use my finger, also. >> Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in the app-switcher. >> I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. >> Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? >> Vejas >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 3 00:31:25 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 20:31:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode In-Reply-To: References: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> <-6603117085149275438@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <013c01ce4795$aa058230$fe108690$@gmail.com> Josh, FYI, it's a he. :) What I was telling him was that he could turn Triple Click Home on without help if he did in fact need to reboot. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode Right… But she said she doesn't like to Reboot… Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 8:15 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Try turning the iPhone off and back on again. Actually, you can set > the triple click home setting without help, assuming that voiceover is > turned on. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 2, 2013, at 8:12 PM, vejas wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use my finger, also. >> Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in the app-switcher. >> I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. >> Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? >> Vejas >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >> gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri May 3 00:38:15 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 20:38:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode In-Reply-To: <013c01ce4795$aa058230$fe108690$@gmail.com> References: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> <-6603117085149275438@unknownmsgid> <013c01ce4795$aa058230$fe108690$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh my God, I've done the same thing with a whole Lot of people. Sorry! Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 8:31 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Josh, > > FYI, it's a he. :) What I was telling him was that he could turn Triple Click Home on without help if he did in fact need to reboot. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode > > Right… But she said she doesn't like to Reboot… > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 2, 2013, at 8:15 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > >> Try turning the iPhone off and back on again. Actually, you can set >> the triple click home setting without help, assuming that voiceover is >> turned on. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 2, 2013, at 8:12 PM, vejas wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use my finger, also. >>> Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in the app-switcher. >>> I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. >>> Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? >>> Vejas >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri May 3 00:39:12 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 20:39:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode In-Reply-To: <013c01ce4795$aa058230$fe108690$@gmail.com> References: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> <-6603117085149275438@unknownmsgid> <013c01ce4795$aa058230$fe108690$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah but not if voiceover won't start up. That might be what he is trying to get at. Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 8:31 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Josh, > > FYI, it's a he. :) What I was telling him was that he could turn Triple Click Home on without help if he did in fact need to reboot. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode > > Right… But she said she doesn't like to Reboot… > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 2, 2013, at 8:15 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > >> Try turning the iPhone off and back on again. Actually, you can set >> the triple click home setting without help, assuming that voiceover is >> turned on. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 2, 2013, at 8:12 PM, vejas wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use my finger, also. >>> Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in the app-switcher. >>> I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. >>> Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? >>> Vejas >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From brlsurfer at gmail.com Fri May 3 00:41:33 2013 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 17:41:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode Message-ID: <518307f4.c893e00a.446b.ffffa6e4@mx.google.com> Hi guys. Yes, that's exactly what I meant; if I re-boot, VO won't always start up. Thanks so much. I turned off the phone, waited for a while and turned it on, and it worked fine. Have a great day. Vejas ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: Josh, FYI, it's a he. :) What I was telling him was that he could turn Triple Click Home on without help if he did in fact need to reboot. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode Right… But she said she doesn't like to Reboot… Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 8:15 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: Try turning the iPhone off and back on again. Actually, you can set the triple click home setting without help, assuming that voiceover is turned on. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 8:12 PM, vejas wrote: Hi, I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use my finger, also. Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in the app-switcher. I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? Vejas _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40 gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g mail.com From christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net Fri May 3 00:44:12 2013 From: christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net (Chris Parsons) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 19:44:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Community service project at National Convention Message-ID: <51F6C10F63344269AAF24E4B75CD2874@ChristineTHINK> Hi all, Will you be at National Convention in Orlando this year? Would you like to do some community service while you’re there? The National Association of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC) is hosting its annual Braille Book Fair on Wednesday, July 3. As our convention service project this year, the Community Service Group is putting together a group to help out at the book fair. Our group will be helping out from 5:00 to 6:00, which is during the event itself. Tasks that they need help with during this time include marshaling, working tables (supervising a section of books), and building boxes of books. If you are interested in participating in this service project, please let me know by sending an e-mail to Christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net with your name, your phone number, and what tasks you would be interested in doing. The deadline to let me know is June 1. Not available from 5:00 to 6:00 but still want to help? Krystal Guillory, who is coordinating the Braille Book Fair this year, needs people to help out with various tasks, including sorting and moving books, setup, staffing the event itself, and cleanup, any time from 12:00 to 9:00. So if you won’t be available when the Community Service Group will be there, just send Krystal an e-mail at kguillory at lcb-ruston.com or call her at (318) 245-8955 and let her know that you want to help and at what time. For those of you who will be there from 5:00 to 6:00, we are planning to meet and go out to dinner afterward as a group to socialize and reflect on the importance of our work and community service. We hope you will join us! We are excited about our service project with the Braille Book Fair this year, and I look forward to hearing from those of you who want to help. Chris Parsons From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 3 00:45:36 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 20:45:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode In-Reply-To: References: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> <-6603117085149275438@unknownmsgid> <013c01ce4795$aa058230$fe108690$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <014201ce4797$87abcc60$97036520$@gmail.com> Hmm... never done that for me. Vejas, glad it's working. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode Yeah but not if voiceover won't start up. That might be what he is trying to get at. Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 8:31 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Josh, > > FYI, it's a he. :) What I was telling him was that he could turn Triple Click Home on without help if he did in fact need to reboot. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh > Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode > > Right… But she said she doesn't like to Reboot… > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 2, 2013, at 8:15 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > >> Try turning the iPhone off and back on again. Actually, you can set >> the triple click home setting without help, assuming that voiceover >> is turned on. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 2, 2013, at 8:12 PM, vejas wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use my finger, also. >>> Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in the app-switcher. >>> I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. >>> Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? >>> Vejas >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>> 0 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >> l >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri May 3 05:26:08 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 01:26:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode In-Reply-To: <014201ce4797$87abcc60$97036520$@gmail.com> References: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> <-6603117085149275438@unknownmsgid> <013c01ce4795$aa058230$fe108690$@gmail.com> <014201ce4797$87abcc60$97036520$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, It is important to remember that turning off the phone and turning it back on again is not the same thing as rebooting. It's always good to try just turning it off and on again as Chris suggested first before rebooting, but I'm glad to hear that the problem has rectified itself. I've been privately wondering why this is for a while now, but with as much as voice control or Siri can do, I'm surprised Apple hasn't built in options to use either of them to change basic settings. "Siri, turn voiceover on," would be a great accessibility fix for when rebooting changes accessibility settings and turns voiceover off. Then we could at least go into the settings and fix the speaking rate or tripple-click home settings ourselves. On 5/2/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hmm... never done that for me. Vejas, glad it's working. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:39 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode > > Yeah but not if voiceover won't start up. That might be what he is trying to > get at. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 2, 2013, at 8:31 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" > wrote: > >> Josh, >> >> FYI, it's a he. :) What I was telling him was that he could turn Triple >> Click Home on without help if he did in fact need to reboot. >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh >> Gregory >> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:27 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode >> >> Right… But she said she doesn't like to Reboot… >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 2, 2013, at 8:15 PM, christopher nusbaum >> wrote: >> >>> Try turning the iPhone off and back on again. Actually, you can set >>> the triple click home setting without help, assuming that voiceover >>> is turned on. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 2, 2013, at 8:12 PM, vejas wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use >>>> my finger, also. >>>> Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the >>>> homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to >>>> the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't >>>> allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in >>>> the app-switcher. >>>> I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get >>>> rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. >>>> Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? >>>> Vejas >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>>> 0 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri May 3 05:42:13 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 01:42:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <00aa01ce477e$0df981f0$29ec85d0$@cocenter.org> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <00aa01ce477e$0df981f0$29ec85d0$@cocenter.org> Message-ID: Hi all, On a more general academic note, it is also better for most people most of the time to use the braille display simply because it is more convenient then shlepping around volumes upon volumes of braille books. Sophie brought up an excellent point; the world is quickly moving away from paper, (even sighted people too, that's why the post offices are in so much trouble as of recent years). I can also say from experience that carrying a sub five pound notetaker around along with a few flashdrives or sd cards is a lot more feasible than carrying around a backpack stuffed with braille. I don't miss the days from high school when I had multiple volumes of math books, a Genetics book that we loaned from APH for my Genetics class, Psychology textbooks also in hardcopy braille from APH, and music theory textbooks from NLS. Granted, all those subjects except for psychology warrant the use of hardcopy braille, but I don't know what I would have done if I had embossed history and English textbooks on top of the ones I already had. I, and my back, really appreciate the lighter backpack I have now that my college ds office just makes electronic files for me which I can read from my computer with Jaws or on my BrailleSense. I'm also a huge stickler about actually reading braille as opposed to listening to someone else read it all the time too, (with the exception of textbooks since it's convenient to read and fill out homework or notes as you go on a laptop), but I can say at least from my experiences that there isn't a major difference other than size and weight in using a refreshable display instead of embossed braille. Hope this helps. On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: > Mr. Biggs thank you for your comment about poetry in Braille. I confess > that is one of my personal passions, and the only effective way to read > poetry for a blind person is in Braille. Certainly not a recording from > Learning Ally or a PDF with JAWS. Again an excellent argument in favor of > a > more flexible format that can be converted to Braille or read with a > Braille > display. > > While there are great advantages to reading poetry with paper Braille, I > have read the vast majority of it as blind person on a refreshable Braille > display. > > There are a couple of advantages of doing so, I think, as a student. > First, > I used rich text files and brf files. These are fairly generic and work on > any note taker or in any platform or word processor. But you can also make > notes or annotations in the text if you are so inclined. > > Best, > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith > Biggs > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 3:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hello, > Poetry is probably the only class you will want to consider reading the > words in a hard copy. The refreshable Braille display is perfectly built > for > continuous reading. If you are a musician, in particular a vocalist, I > would > say you would really want to use an embosser, but that is only because in > order to read one line of music, one needs to read 3 lines or more at the > same time. But even still there are people who manage to use a Braille > display for that. > I have been rash and bought pieces of expensive equipment I have not used, > so if I were you, I'd be very cautious and even manage to try out the > equipment for a week or so to see how you like it. If you are going to be > reading the book once, then placing it on your bookshelf, embossed books > will become very cumbersome very fast. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 1:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe > there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with > the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get > some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high > school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments > have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving > away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and > in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect > paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just > making a point. > > Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirt Manwaring To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Helga, > I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille > display > first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might discover that the > braille note refreshable braille display does, in fact, work for you...in > which case you won't need an embosser at all for the vast majority of > things; advanced math and some few science classes being the exception, > perhaps. Second, and perhaps more relivant to you, your rehab counselor > will probably ask you why you can't just use the braille note braille > display for your braille reading. Having become familiar with the > refreshable braille, you will be more able to provide adequett > justification > for why you need an embosser instead of just the braille note. > Hope that helps, > Kirt > > On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: > If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I worked > for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of years I > supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. > > First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books > available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or that > can > be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. > > Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may need to > give you a better format. They would need to do that f Braille is your > preferred format and there is a compelling reason that PDF isn't good > enough. That English is your second language and that your major requires > reading and comprehending complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is > a > compelling argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS > office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want it. > They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is not > available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work ahead of you > turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. > > Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. > > With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could read > it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is likely that > the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. > With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper > Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to press > the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in other > words, > a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a format other than > PDF. > > And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are expensive > just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are pretty good. If > they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to do so on the basis > that it isn't related to your vocational goal. They can't say it's too > expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. > Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking your VR > counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is something they > are required to provide. > > Good luck! > > Best, > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hi all, this is Helga. I just > would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program > and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote apex for a > cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille > because > is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are > hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I > need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. > Actually, > this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very > challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS > provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It > was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first > Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my > comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and > she > told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very > expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really > help > me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after > 1865 in the > Fall semester. > Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce > nter.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud > e%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 2 06:42:33 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 02:42:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <00aa01ce477e$0df981f0$29ec85d0$@cocenter.org> Message-ID: <005301ce4700$3a500d60$aef02820$@gmail.com> I'm getting a 40 sell. Is that what you have? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:42 AM To: dburke at cocenter.org; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Hi all, On a more general academic note, it is also better for most people most of the time to use the braille display simply because it is more convenient then shlepping around volumes upon volumes of braille books. Sophie brought up an excellent point; the world is quickly moving away from paper, (even sighted people too, that's why the post offices are in so much trouble as of recent years). I can also say from experience that carrying a sub five pound notetaker around along with a few flashdrives or sd cards is a lot more feasible than carrying around a backpack stuffed with braille. I don't miss the days from high school when I had multiple volumes of math books, a Genetics book that we loaned from APH for my Genetics class, Psychology textbooks also in hardcopy braille from APH, and music theory textbooks from NLS. Granted, all those subjects except for psychology warrant the use of hardcopy braille, but I don't know what I would have done if I had embossed history and English textbooks on top of the ones I already had. I, and my back, really appreciate the lighter backpack I have now that my college ds office just makes electronic files for me which I can read from my computer with Jaws or on my BrailleSense. I'm also a huge stickler about actually reading braille as opposed to listening to someone else read it all the time too, (with the exception of textbooks since it's convenient to read and fill out homework or notes as you go on a laptop), but I can say at least from my experiences that there isn't a major difference other than size and weight in using a refreshable display instead of embossed braille. Hope this helps. On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: > Mr. Biggs thank you for your comment about poetry in Braille. I > confess that is one of my personal passions, and the only effective > way to read poetry for a blind person is in Braille. Certainly not a > recording from Learning Ally or a PDF with JAWS. Again an excellent > argument in favor of a more flexible format that can be converted to > Braille or read with a Braille display. > > While there are great advantages to reading poetry with paper Braille, > I have read the vast majority of it as blind person on a refreshable > Braille display. > > There are a couple of advantages of doing so, I think, as a student. > First, > I used rich text files and brf files. These are fairly generic and > work on any note taker or in any platform or word processor. But you > can also make notes or annotations in the text if you are so inclined. > > Best, > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon > Keith Biggs > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 3:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hello, > Poetry is probably the only class you will want to consider reading > the words in a hard copy. The refreshable Braille display is perfectly > built for continuous reading. If you are a musician, in particular a > vocalist, I would say you would really want to use an embosser, but > that is only because in order to read one line of music, one needs to > read 3 lines or more at the same time. But even still there are people > who manage to use a Braille display for that. > I have been rash and bought pieces of expensive equipment I have not > used, so if I were you, I'd be very cautious and even manage to try > out the equipment for a week or so to see how you like it. If you are > going to be reading the book once, then placing it on your bookshelf, > embossed books will become very cumbersome very fast. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 1:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also > believe there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try > reading with the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming > obsolete. I may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. > I'm a sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more > and more of my assignments have either been emailed to me or put on a > flash drive. The world is moving away from paper (well, the blind > world, at least) and toward computers, and in your future place of > employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect paper braille in > anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just making a point. > > Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirt Manwaring To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students > mailing list -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Helga, > I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille > display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might > discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in > fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all > for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science > classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more > relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you > can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille > reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you > will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need > an embosser instead of just the braille note. > Hope that helps, > Kirt > > On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: > If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I > worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of > years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. > > First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books > available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or > that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. > > Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may > need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f > Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that > PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that > your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and > what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You > need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely > have to push it if you really want it. > They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is > not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work > ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. > > Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. > > With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could > read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is > likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. > With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper > Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to > press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in > other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a > format other than PDF. > > And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are > expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are > pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to > do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. > They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. > Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking > your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is > something they are required to provide. > > Good luck! > > Best, > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hi all, this is Helga. I just > would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury > program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote > apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to > read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm > reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually > doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that > involve a lot of reading. > Actually, > this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very > challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book > that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from > Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the > stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak > it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to > my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me > the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a > Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm > thinking in taking American Literature after > 1865 in the > Fall semester. > Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! > :) _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce > nter.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud > e%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter. > org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri May 3 07:19:37 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 01:19:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <005301ce4700$3a500d60$aef02820$@gmail.com> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <00aa01ce477e$0df981f0$29ec85d0$@cocenter.org> <005301ce4700$3a500d60$aef02820$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sophie, I disagree with you. Slightly. When working withlong devision, multivariable augmented matrices, tables with over fifteen collums and/or rows, synthetic substitution, synthetic devision, systems of equasions with more than three variables...paper braille is definitely not obsce+leete. Try doing all that on a single-line refreshable braille display, and I think you'll probably find yourself agreeing with me. On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: > I'm getting a 40 sell. Is that what you have? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:42 AM > To: dburke at cocenter.org; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hi all, > > On a more general academic note, it is also better for most people most of > the time to use the braille display simply because it is more convenient > then shlepping around volumes upon volumes of braille books. Sophie > brought > up an excellent point; the world is quickly moving away from paper, (even > sighted people too, that's why the post offices are in so much trouble as > of > recent years). I can also say from experience that carrying a sub five > pound notetaker around along with a few flashdrives or sd cards is a lot > more feasible than carrying around a backpack stuffed with braille. I > don't > miss the days from high school when I had multiple volumes of math books, a > Genetics book that we loaned from APH for my Genetics class, Psychology > textbooks also in hardcopy braille from APH, and music theory textbooks > from > NLS. Granted, all those subjects except for psychology warrant the use of > hardcopy braille, but I don't know what I would have done if I had embossed > history and English textbooks on top of the ones I already had. I, and my > back, really appreciate the lighter backpack I have now that my college ds > office just makes electronic files for me which I can read from my computer > with Jaws or on my BrailleSense. I'm also a huge stickler about actually > reading braille as opposed to listening to someone else read it all the > time > too, (with the exception of textbooks since it's convenient to read and > fill > out homework or notes as you go on a laptop), but I can say at least from > my > experiences that there isn't a major difference other than size and weight > in using a refreshable display instead of embossed braille. > > Hope this helps. > > > On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >> Mr. Biggs thank you for your comment about poetry in Braille. I >> confess that is one of my personal passions, and the only effective >> way to read poetry for a blind person is in Braille. Certainly not a >> recording from Learning Ally or a PDF with JAWS. Again an excellent >> argument in favor of a more flexible format that can be converted to >> Braille or read with a Braille display. >> >> While there are great advantages to reading poetry with paper Braille, >> I have read the vast majority of it as blind person on a refreshable >> Braille display. >> >> There are a couple of advantages of doing so, I think, as a student. >> First, >> I used rich text files and brf files. These are fairly generic and >> work on any note taker or in any platform or word processor. But you >> can also make notes or annotations in the text if you are so inclined. >> >> Best, >> Dan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon >> Keith Biggs >> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 3:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> Hello, >> Poetry is probably the only class you will want to consider reading >> the words in a hard copy. The refreshable Braille display is perfectly >> built for continuous reading. If you are a musician, in particular a >> vocalist, I would say you would really want to use an embosser, but >> that is only because in order to read one line of music, one needs to >> read 3 lines or more at the same time. But even still there are people >> who manage to use a Braille display for that. >> I have been rash and bought pieces of expensive equipment I have not >> used, so if I were you, I'd be very cautious and even manage to try >> out the equipment for a week or so to see how you like it. If you are >> going to be reading the book once, then placing it on your bookshelf, >> embossed books will become very cumbersome very fast. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sophie Trist >> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 1:27 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also >> believe there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try >> reading with the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming >> obsolete. I may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. >> I'm a sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more >> and more of my assignments have either been emailed to me or put on a >> flash drive. The world is moving away from paper (well, the blind >> world, at least) and toward computers, and in your future place of >> employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect paper braille in >> anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just making a point. >> >> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kirt Manwaring > To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list > -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> Helga, >> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in >> fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all >> for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science >> classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more >> relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you >> can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille >> reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you >> will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need >> an embosser instead of just the braille note. >> Hope that helps, >> Kirt >> >> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I >> worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of >> years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >> >> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books >> available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or >> that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >> >> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may >> need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f >> Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that >> PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that >> your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and >> what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You >> need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely >> have to push it if you really want it. >> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is >> not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work >> ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. >> >> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about >> anything. >> >> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could >> read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is >> likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer > paper Braille. >> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper >> Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to >> press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in >> other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a >> format other than PDF. >> >> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to >> do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. >> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an > Individualized Plan for Employment. >> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is >> something they are required to provide. >> >> Good luck! >> >> Best, >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote >> apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to >> read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm >> reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually >> doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that >> involve a lot of reading. >> Actually, >> this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very >> challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book >> that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from >> Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the >> stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak >> it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to >> my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me >> the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a >> Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm >> thinking in taking American Literature after >> 1865 in the >> Fall semester. >> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! >> :) _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >> nter.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% >> 40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter. >> org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri May 3 07:21:50 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 01:21:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sophie, Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just give it a shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just making a point. > > Cheers from your fellow future English major, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirt Manwaring To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 2 May 2013 10:42:41 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Helga, > I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille > display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might > discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in > fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all > for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science > classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more > relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you > can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille > reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you > will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need > an embosser instead of just the braille note. > Hope that helps, > Kirt > > On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: > If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I worked > for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of years I > supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. > > First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books > available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or that > can > be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. > > Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may need to > give you a better format. They would need to do that f Braille is your > preferred format and there is a compelling reason that PDF isn't good > enough. That English is your second language and that your major requires > reading and comprehending complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is > a > compelling argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS > office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want it. > They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is not > available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work ahead of you > turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. > > Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. > > With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could read > it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is likely that > the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. > With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper > Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to press > the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in other > words, > a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a format other than > PDF. > > And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are expensive > just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are pretty good. If > they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to do so on the basis > that it isn't related to your vocational goal. They can't say it's too > expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. > Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking your VR > counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is something they > are required to provide. > > Good luck! > > Best, > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hi all, this is Helga. I just > would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program > and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote apex for a > cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille > because > is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are > hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I > need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, > this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very > challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS > provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It > was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first > Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my > comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and > she > told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very > expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really > help > me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the > Fall semester. > Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce > nter.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud > e%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri May 3 07:50:31 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 03:50:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging Message-ID: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> Hi all, I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still acessible? I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only tab to the elements you need. Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when ever you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m not sure how to change that. Thanks. Ashley From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 3 10:56:01 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 06:56:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <-780636502756799902@unknownmsgid> Three blogging websites I know to be accessible our word press, LiveJournal, and blog spot. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 3:51 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still acessible? > I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only tab to the elements you need. > > Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when ever you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m not sure how to change that. > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 3 10:59:26 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 06:59:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <00aa01ce477e$0df981f0$29ec85d0$@cocenter.org> <005301ce4700$3a500d60$aef02820$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4246966526093530343@unknownmsgid> Kirt, I agree with you in the area of math. In fact, I still use hardcopy braille for my math work. However, everything else I do on a braille display. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 3:20 AM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Sophie, > I disagree with you. Slightly. When working withlong devision, > multivariable augmented matrices, tables with over fifteen collums > and/or rows, synthetic substitution, synthetic devision, systems of > equasions with more than three variables...paper braille is definitely > not obsce+leete. Try doing all that on a single-line refreshable > braille display, and I think you'll probably find yourself agreeing > with me. > > On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: >> I'm getting a 40 sell. Is that what you have? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton >> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:42 AM >> To: dburke at cocenter.org; National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> Hi all, >> >> On a more general academic note, it is also better for most people most of >> the time to use the braille display simply because it is more convenient >> then shlepping around volumes upon volumes of braille books. Sophie >> brought >> up an excellent point; the world is quickly moving away from paper, (even >> sighted people too, that's why the post offices are in so much trouble as >> of >> recent years). I can also say from experience that carrying a sub five >> pound notetaker around along with a few flashdrives or sd cards is a lot >> more feasible than carrying around a backpack stuffed with braille. I >> don't >> miss the days from high school when I had multiple volumes of math books, a >> Genetics book that we loaned from APH for my Genetics class, Psychology >> textbooks also in hardcopy braille from APH, and music theory textbooks >> from >> NLS. Granted, all those subjects except for psychology warrant the use of >> hardcopy braille, but I don't know what I would have done if I had embossed >> history and English textbooks on top of the ones I already had. I, and my >> back, really appreciate the lighter backpack I have now that my college ds >> office just makes electronic files for me which I can read from my computer >> with Jaws or on my BrailleSense. I'm also a huge stickler about actually >> reading braille as opposed to listening to someone else read it all the >> time >> too, (with the exception of textbooks since it's convenient to read and >> fill >> out homework or notes as you go on a laptop), but I can say at least from >> my >> experiences that there isn't a major difference other than size and weight >> in using a refreshable display instead of embossed braille. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> >> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >>> Mr. Biggs thank you for your comment about poetry in Braille. I >>> confess that is one of my personal passions, and the only effective >>> way to read poetry for a blind person is in Braille. Certainly not a >>> recording from Learning Ally or a PDF with JAWS. Again an excellent >>> argument in favor of a more flexible format that can be converted to >>> Braille or read with a Braille display. >>> >>> While there are great advantages to reading poetry with paper Braille, >>> I have read the vast majority of it as blind person on a refreshable >>> Braille display. >>> >>> There are a couple of advantages of doing so, I think, as a student. >>> First, >>> I used rich text files and brf files. These are fairly generic and >>> work on any note taker or in any platform or word processor. But you >>> can also make notes or annotations in the text if you are so inclined. >>> >>> Best, >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon >>> Keith Biggs >>> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 3:06 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>> >>> Hello, >>> Poetry is probably the only class you will want to consider reading >>> the words in a hard copy. The refreshable Braille display is perfectly >>> built for continuous reading. If you are a musician, in particular a >>> vocalist, I would say you would really want to use an embosser, but >>> that is only because in order to read one line of music, one needs to >>> read 3 lines or more at the same time. But even still there are people >>> who manage to use a Braille display for that. >>> I have been rash and bought pieces of expensive equipment I have not >>> used, so if I were you, I'd be very cautious and even manage to try >>> out the equipment for a week or so to see how you like it. If you are >>> going to be reading the book once, then placing it on your bookshelf, >>> embossed books will become very cumbersome very fast. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sophie Trist >>> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 1:27 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>> >>> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also >>> believe there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try >>> reading with the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming >>> obsolete. I may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. >>> I'm a sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more >>> and more of my assignments have either been emailed to me or put on a >>> flash drive. The world is moving away from paper (well, the blind >>> world, at least) and toward computers, and in your future place of >>> employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect paper braille in >>> anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just making a point. >>> >>> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >> To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list >> -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>> >>> Helga, >>> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >>> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >>> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in >>> fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all >>> for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science >>> classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more >>> relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you >>> can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille >>> reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you >>> will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need >>> an embosser instead of just the braille note. >>> Hope that helps, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >>> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I >>> worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of >>> years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >>> >>> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books >>> available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or >>> that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >>> >>> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may >>> need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f >>> Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that >>> PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that >>> your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and >>> what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You >>> need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely >>> have to push it if you really want it. >>> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is >>> not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work >>> ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. >>> >>> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about >>> anything. >>> >>> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could >>> read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is >>> likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer >> paper Braille. >>> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper >>> Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to >>> press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in >>> other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a >>> format other than PDF. >>> >>> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >>> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >>> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to >>> do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. >>> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an >> Individualized Plan for Employment. >>> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >>> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is >>> something they are required to provide. >>> >>> Good luck! >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>> >>> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >>> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >>> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote >>> apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to >>> read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm >>> reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually >>> doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that >>> involve a lot of reading. >>> Actually, >>> this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very >>> challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book >>> that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from >>> Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the >>> stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak >>> it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to >>> my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me >>> the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a >>> Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm >>> thinking in taking American Literature after >>> 1865 in the >>> Fall semester. >>> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! >>> :) _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >>> nter.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>> e%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% >>> 40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter. >>> org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 3 11:01:20 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 07:01:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode In-Reply-To: References: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> <-6603117085149275438@unknownmsgid> <013c01ce4795$aa058230$fe108690$@gmail.com> <014201ce4797$87abcc60$97036520$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5058016127728132855@unknownmsgid> Good idea. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 1:27 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > It is important to remember that turning off the phone and turning it > back on again is not the same thing as rebooting. It's always good to > try just turning it off and on again as Chris suggested first before > rebooting, but I'm glad to hear that the problem has rectified itself. > > I've been privately wondering why this is for a while now, but with as > much as voice control or Siri can do, I'm surprised Apple hasn't built > in options to use either of them to change basic settings. "Siri, > turn voiceover on," would be a great accessibility fix for when > rebooting changes accessibility settings and turns voiceover off. > Then we could at least go into the settings and fix the speaking rate > or tripple-click home settings ourselves. > > On 5/2/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Hmm... never done that for me. Vejas, glad it's working. >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory >> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:39 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode >> >> Yeah but not if voiceover won't start up. That might be what he is trying to >> get at. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 2, 2013, at 8:31 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" >> wrote: >> >>> Josh, >>> >>> FYI, it's a he. :) What I was telling him was that he could turn Triple >>> Click Home on without help if he did in fact need to reboot. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh >>> Gregory >>> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:27 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode >>> >>> Right… But she said she doesn't like to Reboot… >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 2, 2013, at 8:15 PM, christopher nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Try turning the iPhone off and back on again. Actually, you can set >>>> the triple click home setting without help, assuming that voiceover >>>> is turned on. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 2, 2013, at 8:12 PM, vejas wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use >>>>> my finger, also. >>>>> Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the >>>>> homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to >>>>> the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't >>>>> allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in >>>>> the app-switcher. >>>>> I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get >>>>> rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. >>>>> Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? >>>>> Vejas >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>>>> 0 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>>> l >>>> .com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >>> .com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri May 3 11:13:44 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 07:13:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode In-Reply-To: <5058016127728132855@unknownmsgid> References: <518300ce.0393e00a.5d83.ffffe4fd@mx.google.com> <-6603117085149275438@unknownmsgid> <013c01ce4795$aa058230$fe108690$@gmail.com> <014201ce4797$87abcc60$97036520$@gmail.com> <5058016127728132855@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <47162B54-B542-49FD-8D6A-9928DCCBE3C7@gmail.com> Well, if enough people write Apple accessibility, this might happen, but otherwise, it will not. Like humanware and other such blindness companies, Apple needs a big bass to demand things, So to speak, before they will act. While I understand that they are not a Blindness specific Company, the same principle still applies here Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 7:01 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Good idea. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 1:27 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> It is important to remember that turning off the phone and turning it >> back on again is not the same thing as rebooting. It's always good to >> try just turning it off and on again as Chris suggested first before >> rebooting, but I'm glad to hear that the problem has rectified itself. >> >> I've been privately wondering why this is for a while now, but with as >> much as voice control or Siri can do, I'm surprised Apple hasn't built >> in options to use either of them to change basic settings. "Siri, >> turn voiceover on," would be a great accessibility fix for when >> rebooting changes accessibility settings and turns voiceover off. >> Then we could at least go into the settings and fix the speaking rate >> or tripple-click home settings ourselves. >> >> On 5/2/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Hmm... never done that for me. Vejas, glad it's working. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory >>> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:39 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode >>> >>> Yeah but not if voiceover won't start up. That might be what he is trying to >>> get at. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 2, 2013, at 8:31 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Josh, >>>> >>>> FYI, it's a he. :) What I was telling him was that he could turn Triple >>>> Click Home on without help if he did in fact need to reboot. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>>> Public Relations Committee >>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh >>>> Gregory >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 8:27 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my iphone is in a very weird mode >>>> >>>> Right… But she said she doesn't like to Reboot… >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 2, 2013, at 8:15 PM, christopher nusbaum >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Try turning the iPhone off and back on again. Actually, you can set >>>>> the triple click home setting without help, assuming that voiceover >>>>> is turned on. >>>>> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On May 2, 2013, at 8:12 PM, vejas wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I use an iphone 5. I usually connect it with my Apex but sometimes use >>>>>> my finger, also. >>>>>> Recently my phone has been starting to act funny. When I'm in the >>>>>> homepage I usually swipe to the right or use dot 4 and space to get to >>>>>> the next item (like messages, notes, etc.) Additionally, the phone won't >>>>>> allow me to double-tap. It will only open apps that were previously in >>>>>> the app-switcher. >>>>>> I could reboot, but I don't want to because rebooting can sometimes get >>>>>> rid of the triple-click setting, and I can't reset that without help. >>>>>> Has anyone's phone been in this mode before? >>>>>> Vejas >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>>>>> 0 >>>>>> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>>>> l >>>>> .com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >>>> .com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 2 14:09:00 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 10:09:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> Yeah, I remember my college algebra course. I don't even want to think about trying that on a 40 cell braille display. Wonder if excel would work in algebra? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:22 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Sophie, Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just give it a shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just making a point. > > Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirt Manwaring To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students > mailing list -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Helga, > I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille > display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might > discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in > fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all > for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science > classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more > relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you > can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille > reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you > will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need > an embosser instead of just the braille note. > Hope that helps, > Kirt > > On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: > If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I > worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of > years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. > > First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books > available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or > that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. > > Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may > need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f > Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that > PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that > your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and > what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You > need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely > have to push it if you really want it. > They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is > not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work > ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. > > Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. > > With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could > read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is > likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. > With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper > Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to > press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in > other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a > format other than PDF. > > And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are > expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are > pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to > do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. > They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. > Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking > your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is > something they are required to provide. > > Good luck! > > Best, > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hi all, this is Helga. I just > would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury > program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote > apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to > read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm > reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually > doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that > involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American > Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the > only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF > format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, > but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is > not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my > comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this > and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because > is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading > will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American > Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. > Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! > :) _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce > nter.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud > e%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri May 3 14:38:35 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Fri, 03 May 2013 09:38:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Message-ID: <5183cc01.b441340a.6d47.0cd7@mx.google.com> Kirt, I definitely see your point. I guess I didn't explain myself fully enough. For mathematical things and tacticle graphics, paper braille is definitely necessary. But Helga seemed more concerned with getting English books and novels in paper braille, and that was what I was arguing against. My argument was also mainly for the workplace. I guess it could happen, but I can't see myself doing systems of equations in the workplace...thank God! ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: I'm getting a 40 sell. Is that what you have? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:42 AM To: dburke at cocenter.org; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Hi all, On a more general academic note, it is also better for most people most of the time to use the braille display simply because it is more convenient then shlepping around volumes upon volumes of braille books. Sophie brought up an excellent point; the world is quickly moving away from paper, (even sighted people too, that's why the post offices are in so much trouble as of recent years). I can also say from experience that carrying a sub five pound notetaker around along with a few flashdrives or sd cards is a lot more feasible than carrying around a backpack stuffed with braille. I don't miss the days from high school when I had multiple volumes of math books, a Genetics book that we loaned from APH for my Genetics class, Psychology textbooks also in hardcopy braille from APH, and music theory textbooks from NLS. Granted, all those subjects except for psychology warrant the use of hardcopy braille, but I don't know what I would have done if I had embossed history and English textbooks on top of the ones I already had. I, and my back, really appreciate the lighter backpack I have now that my college ds office just makes electronic files for me which I can read from my computer with Jaws or on my BrailleSense. I'm also a huge stickler about actually reading braille as opposed to listening to someone else read it all the time too, (with the exception of textbooks since it's convenient to read and fill out homework or notes as you go on a laptop), but I can say at least from my experiences that there isn't a major difference other than size and weight in using a refreshable display instead of embossed braille. Hope this helps. On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: Mr. Biggs thank you for your comment about poetry in Braille. I confess that is one of my personal passions, and the only effective way to read poetry for a blind person is in Braille. Certainly not a recording from Learning Ally or a PDF with JAWS. Again an excellent argument in favor of a more flexible format that can be converted to Braille or read with a Braille display. While there are great advantages to reading poetry with paper Braille, I have read the vast majority of it as blind person on a refreshable Braille display. There are a couple of advantages of doing so, I think, as a student. First, I used rich text files and brf files. These are fairly generic and work on any note taker or in any platform or word processor. But you can also make notes or annotations in the text if you are so inclined. Best, Dan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 3:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Hello, Poetry is probably the only class you will want to consider reading the words in a hard copy. The refreshable Braille display is perfectly built for continuous reading. If you are a musician, in particular a vocalist, I would say you would really want to use an embosser, but that is only because in order to read one line of music, one needs to read 3 lines or more at the same time. But even still there are people who manage to use a Braille display for that. I have been rash and bought pieces of expensive equipment I have not used, so if I were you, I'd be very cautious and even manage to try out the equipment for a week or so to see how you like it. If you are going to be reading the book once, then placing it on your bookshelf, embossed books will become very cumbersome very fast. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 1:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just making a point. Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want it. They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer paper Braille. With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a format other than PDF. And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an Individualized Plan for Employment. Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is something they are required to provide. Good luck! Best, Dan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Hi all, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :) _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce nter.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud e%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs% 40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce nter. org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104% 40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia ms2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud e%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 3 14:53:52 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 10:53:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7451381935961637936@unknownmsgid> It could probably work for making graphs and such. I'm interested in trying out the new graphing calculator APH is coming out with. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 10:08 AM, justin williams wrote: > Yeah, I remember my college algebra course. I don't even want to think > about trying that on a 40 cell braille display. Wonder if excel would work > in algebra? > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:22 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Sophie, > Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just give it a > shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe > there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with > the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get > some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high > school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments > have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving > away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and > in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect > paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just > making a point. >> >> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kirt Manwaring > To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list > -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> Helga, >> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in >> fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all >> for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science >> classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more >> relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you >> can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille >> reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you >> will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need >> an embosser instead of just the braille note. >> Hope that helps, >> Kirt >> >> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I >> worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of >> years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >> >> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books >> available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or >> that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >> >> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may >> need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f >> Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that >> PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that >> your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and >> what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You >> need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely >> have to push it if you really want it. >> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is >> not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work >> ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. >> >> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. >> >> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could >> read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is >> likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer > paper Braille. >> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper >> Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to >> press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in >> other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a >> format other than PDF. >> >> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to >> do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. >> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an > Individualized Plan for Employment. >> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is >> something they are required to provide. >> >> Good luck! >> >> Best, >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote >> apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to >> read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm >> reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually >> doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that >> involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American >> Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the >> only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF >> format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, >> but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is >> not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my >> comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this >> and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because >> is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading >> will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American >> Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. >> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! >> :) _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >> nter.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri May 3 18:23:59 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 14:23:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> Hi, I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! You can find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well it works at flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about low and high technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or iOS? "Talks about android access and Apple vis. The only problem I have with blogspot is that sometimes I have a Chabot finding the comments area to publish down. I get around this by having it Enomine all my comments. From the email, I can read the comment and press publish or delete, and it will send me directly to my dashboard for further Instructions. Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, as I am using Siri to write it. ~Jewel Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi all, > > I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still acessible? > I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only tab to the elements you need. > > Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when ever you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m not sure how to change that. > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From annajee82 at gmail.com Fri May 3 18:36:35 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 13:36:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <7451381935961637936@unknownmsgid> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> <7451381935961637936@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <54FC21F6-FA85-4FDB-AAE1-E1A0092D2F7C@gmail.com> What is APH? Anna Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 9:53 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > It could probably work for making graphs and such. I'm interested in > trying out the new graphing calculator APH is coming out with. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 10:08 AM, justin williams wrote: > >> Yeah, I remember my college algebra course. I don't even want to think >> about trying that on a 40 cell braille display. Wonder if excel would work >> in algebra? >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt >> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:22 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> Sophie, >> Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just give it a >> shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe >> there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with >> the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get >> some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high >> school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments >> have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving >> away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and >> in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect >> paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just >> making a point. >>> >>> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >> To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list >> -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>> >>> Helga, >>> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >>> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >>> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in >>> fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all >>> for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science >>> classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more >>> relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you >>> can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille >>> reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you >>> will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need >>> an embosser instead of just the braille note. >>> Hope that helps, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >>> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I >>> worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of >>> years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >>> >>> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books >>> available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or >>> that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >>> >>> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may >>> need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f >>> Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that >>> PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that >>> your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and >>> what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You >>> need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely >>> have to push it if you really want it. >>> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is >>> not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work >>> ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. >>> >>> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. >>> >>> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could >>> read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is >>> likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer >> paper Braille. >>> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper >>> Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to >>> press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in >>> other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a >>> format other than PDF. >>> >>> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >>> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >>> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to >>> do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. >>> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an >> Individualized Plan for Employment. >>> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >>> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is >>> something they are required to provide. >>> >>> Good luck! >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>> >>> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >>> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >>> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote >>> apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to >>> read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm >>> reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually >>> doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that >>> involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American >>> Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the >>> only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF >>> format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, >>> but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is >>> not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my >>> comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this >>> and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because >>> is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading >>> will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American >>> Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. >>> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! >>> :) _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >>> nter.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>> e%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 3 18:40:23 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 14:40:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <54FC21F6-FA85-4FDB-AAE1-E1A0092D2F7C@gmail.com> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> <7451381935961637936@unknownmsgid> <54FC21F6-FA85-4FDB-AAE1-E1A0092D2F7C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3571558673199616285@unknownmsgid> The American printing House for the blind. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Anna Givens wrote: > What is APH? > > Anna > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 9:53 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > >> It could probably work for making graphs and such. I'm interested in >> trying out the new graphing calculator APH is coming out with. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 10:08 AM, justin williams wrote: >> >>> Yeah, I remember my college algebra course. I don't even want to think >>> about trying that on a 40 cell braille display. Wonder if excel would work >>> in algebra? >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt >>> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:22 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>> >>> Sophie, >>> Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just give it a >>> shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> >>>> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe >>> there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with >>> the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get >>> some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high >>> school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments >>> have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving >>> away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and >>> in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect >>> paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just >>> making a point. >>>> >>>> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing list >>> -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>> >>>> Helga, >>>> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >>>> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >>>> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in >>>> fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all >>>> for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science >>>> classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more >>>> relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you >>>> can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille >>>> reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you >>>> will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need >>>> an embosser instead of just the braille note. >>>> Hope that helps, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >>>> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I >>>> worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of >>>> years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >>>> >>>> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books >>>> available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or >>>> that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >>>> >>>> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may >>>> need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f >>>> Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that >>>> PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that >>>> your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and >>>> what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You >>>> need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely >>>> have to push it if you really want it. >>>> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is >>>> not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work >>>> ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. >>>> >>>> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. >>>> >>>> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could >>>> read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is >>>> likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer >>> paper Braille. >>>> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper >>>> Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to >>>> press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in >>>> other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a >>>> format other than PDF. >>>> >>>> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >>>> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >>>> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to >>>> do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. >>>> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an >>> Individualized Plan for Employment. >>>> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >>>> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is >>>> something they are required to provide. >>>> >>>> Good luck! >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>> >>>> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >>>> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >>>> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote >>>> apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to >>>> read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm >>>> reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually >>>> doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that >>>> involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American >>>> Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the >>>> only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF >>>> format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, >>>> but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is >>>> not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my >>>> comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this >>>> and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because >>>> is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading >>>> will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American >>>> Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. >>>> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! >>>> :) _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >>>> nter.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>>> e%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 2 18:45:37 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:45:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <3571558673199616285@unknownmsgid> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> <7451381935961637936@unknownmsgid> <54FC21F6-FA85-4FDB-AAE1-E1A0092D2F7C@gmail.com> <3571558673199616285@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <000801ce4765$40194530$c04bcf90$@gmail.com> Hos did your seminar go? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher nusbaum Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program The American printing House for the blind. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Anna Givens wrote: > What is APH? > > Anna > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 9:53 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > >> It could probably work for making graphs and such. I'm interested in >> trying out the new graphing calculator APH is coming out with. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 10:08 AM, justin williams wrote: >> >>> Yeah, I remember my college algebra course. I don't even want to think >>> about trying that on a 40 cell braille display. Wonder if excel would work >>> in algebra? >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt >>> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:22 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>> >>> Sophie, >>> Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just give it a >>> shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> >>>> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also believe >>> there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading with >>> the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may get >>> some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in high >>> school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my assignments >>> have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is moving >>> away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, and >>> in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect >>> paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just >>> making a point. >>>> >>>> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing list >>> -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>> >>>> Helga, >>>> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >>>> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >>>> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in >>>> fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all >>>> for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science >>>> classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more >>>> relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you >>>> can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille >>>> reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you >>>> will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need >>>> an embosser instead of just the braille note. >>>> Hope that helps, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >>>> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I >>>> worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of >>>> years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >>>> >>>> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books >>>> available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or >>>> that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >>>> >>>> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may >>>> need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f >>>> Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that >>>> PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that >>>> your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and >>>> what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You >>>> need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely >>>> have to push it if you really want it. >>>> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is >>>> not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work >>>> ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. >>>> >>>> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about anything. >>>> >>>> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could >>>> read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is >>>> likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not offer >>> paper Braille. >>>> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper >>>> Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to >>>> press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in >>>> other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a >>>> format other than PDF. >>>> >>>> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >>>> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >>>> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to >>>> do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. >>>> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an >>> Individualized Plan for Employment. >>>> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >>>> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is >>>> something they are required to provide. >>>> >>>> Good luck! >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>> >>>> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >>>> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >>>> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote >>>> apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to >>>> read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm >>>> reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually >>>> doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that >>>> involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American >>>> Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the >>>> only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF >>>> format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, >>>> but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is >>>> not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my >>>> comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this >>>> and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because >>>> is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading >>>> will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American >>>> Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. >>>> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! >>>> :) _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >>>> nter.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>>> e%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri May 3 19:25:36 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:25:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <000801ce4765$40194530$c04bcf90$@gmail.com> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> <7451381935961637936@unknownmsgid> <54FC21F6-FA85-4FDB-AAE1-E1A0092D2F7C@gmail.com> <3571558673199616285@unknownmsgid> <000801ce4765$40194530$c04bcf90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, Me too. I'm kicking myself for it, but had I known APH was coming out with the graphing calculator back in November I would have waited to take college statistics instead of just tried to get it over with. However, Excel did a pretty good job of handling most of the formulas. My class was graphing calculator-based so there were a few things the other students could do on their calculators that I could not do in Excel, but it was nothing we couldn't work around by my teacher changing the problem to have me interpret an equasion and demonstrate I understood how it functioned rather than actually fight with Excel to get a calculation it couldn't really do. Justin, I don't have one personally but my Disabilities office has a Focus40 Braille Display for me to use at school and I love it. The Brailliant is also a very good display too, so either way I think you can't go wrong with the 40 cell displays unless you really want something more portable. for travel. I found they work well though. On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: > Hos did your seminar go? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher > nusbaum > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > The American printing House for the blind. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Anna Givens wrote: > >> What is APH? >> >> Anna >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 9:53 AM, christopher nusbaum >> > wrote: >> >>> It could probably work for making graphs and such. I'm interested in >>> trying out the new graphing calculator APH is coming out with. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 3, 2013, at 10:08 AM, justin williams >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Yeah, I remember my college algebra course. I don't even want to >>>> think >>>> about trying that on a 40 cell braille display. Wonder if excel would > work >>>> in algebra? >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt >>>> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:22 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>> >>>> Sophie, >>>> Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just give >>>> it > a >>>> shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also > believe >>>> there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try reading > with >>>> the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I may >>>> get >>>> some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a sophomore in >>>> high >>>> school, and for the past two years or so, more and more of my > assignments >>>> have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world is > moving >>>> away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward computers, > and >>>> in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to > expect >>>> paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just >>>> making a point. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> mailing list >>>> -0600 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>> >>>>> Helga, >>>>> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >>>>> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >>>>> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, in >>>>> fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at all >>>>> for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few science >>>>> classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps more >>>>> relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why you >>>>> can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille >>>>> reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, you >>>>> will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you need >>>>> an embosser instead of just the braille note. >>>>> Hope that helps, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >>>>> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. I >>>>> worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number of >>>>> years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >>>>> >>>>> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text books >>>>> available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, or >>>>> that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >>>>> >>>>> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office may >>>>> need to give you a better format. They would need to do that f >>>>> Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling reason that >>>>> PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second language and that >>>>> your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature (and >>>>> what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion. You >>>>> need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very likely >>>>> have to push it if you really want it. >>>>> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the text is >>>>> not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit of work >>>>> ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about > anything. >>>>> >>>>> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you could >>>>> read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. It is >>>>> likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and not >>>>> offer >>>> paper Braille. >>>>> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own paper >>>>> Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you may need to >>>>> press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process - in >>>>> other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you with a >>>>> format other than PDF. >>>>> >>>>> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >>>>> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >>>>> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they need to >>>>> do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. >>>>> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an >>>> Individualized Plan for Employment. >>>>> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >>>>> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This is >>>>> something they are required to provide. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck! >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >>>>> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >>>>> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the BrailleNote >>>>> apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to >>>>> read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm >>>>> reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually >>>>> doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes that >>>>> involve a lot of reading. Actually, this semester I took American >>>>> Literature before 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the >>>>> only accessable format of the Book that DSS provided me was PDF >>>>> format, and and I got a audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, >>>>> but not enough to understand the stories since my first Language is >>>>> not English, even though I speak it, I'm still working on my >>>>> comprehension of words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this >>>>> and she told me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because >>>>> is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading >>>>> will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American >>>>> Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. >>>>> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! >>>>> :) _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >>>>> nter.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>>>> e%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 2 19:30:07 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 15:30:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> <7451381935961637936@unknownmsgid> <54FC21F6-FA85-4FDB-AAE1-E1A0092D2F7C@gmail.com> <3571558673199616285@unknownmsgid> <000801ce4765$40194530$c04bcf90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000f01ce476b$74edb010$5ec91030$@gmail.com> How much does that calculator cost, and how well does it work? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:26 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program Hi all, Me too. I'm kicking myself for it, but had I known APH was coming out with the graphing calculator back in November I would have waited to take college statistics instead of just tried to get it over with. However, Excel did a pretty good job of handling most of the formulas. My class was graphing calculator-based so there were a few things the other students could do on their calculators that I could not do in Excel, but it was nothing we couldn't work around by my teacher changing the problem to have me interpret an equasion and demonstrate I understood how it functioned rather than actually fight with Excel to get a calculation it couldn't really do. Justin, I don't have one personally but my Disabilities office has a Focus40 Braille Display for me to use at school and I love it. The Brailliant is also a very good display too, so either way I think you can't go wrong with the 40 cell displays unless you really want something more portable. for travel. I found they work well though. On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: > Hos did your seminar go? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > christopher nusbaum > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > The American printing House for the blind. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Anna Givens wrote: > >> What is APH? >> >> Anna >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 9:53 AM, christopher nusbaum >> > wrote: >> >>> It could probably work for making graphs and such. I'm interested in >>> trying out the new graphing calculator APH is coming out with. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 3, 2013, at 10:08 AM, justin williams >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Yeah, I remember my college algebra course. I don't even want to >>>> think about trying that on a 40 cell braille display. Wonder if >>>> excel would > work >>>> in algebra? >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt >>>> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:22 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>> >>>> Sophie, >>>> Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just >>>> give it > a >>>> shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also > believe >>>> there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try >>>> reading > with >>>> the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I >>>> may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a >>>> sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more >>>> and more of my > assignments >>>> have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world >>>> is > moving >>>> away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward >>>> computers, > and >>>> in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to > expect >>>> paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm >>>> just making a point. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> mailing list >>>> 10:42:41 >>>>> -0600 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>> >>>>> Helga, >>>>> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >>>>> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >>>>> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, >>>>> in fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser >>>>> at all for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few >>>>> science classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps >>>>> more relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you >>>>> why you can't just use the braille note braille display for your >>>>> braille reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable >>>>> braille, you will be more able to provide adequett justification >>>>> for why you need an embosser instead of just the braille note. >>>>> Hope that helps, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >>>>> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. >>>>> I worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number >>>>> of years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >>>>> >>>>> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text >>>>> books available in electronic formats that your Braille note can >>>>> read, or that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >>>>> >>>>> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office >>>>> may need to give you a better format. They would need to do that >>>>> f Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling >>>>> reason that PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second >>>>> language and that your major requires reading and comprehending >>>>> complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is a compelling >>>>> argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS >>>>> office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want it. >>>>> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the >>>>> text is not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit >>>>> of work ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about > anything. >>>>> >>>>> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you >>>>> could read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. >>>>> It is likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that >>>>> and not offer >>>> paper Braille. >>>>> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own >>>>> paper Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you >>>>> may need to press the DS office by looking at campus options for >>>>> due process - in other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to >>>>> provide you with a format other than PDF. >>>>> >>>>> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >>>>> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >>>>> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they >>>>> need to do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational goal. >>>>> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an >>>> Individualized Plan for Employment. >>>>> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >>>>> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This >>>>> is something they are required to provide. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck! >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >>>>> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >>>>> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the >>>>> BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is >>>>> because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading >>>>> especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand >>>>> the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to >>>>> take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, >>>>> this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was >>>>> very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the >>>>> Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio >>>>> cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to >>>>> understand the stories since my first Language is not English, >>>>> even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of >>>>> words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told >>>>> me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very >>>>> expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will >>>>> really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. >>>>> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! >>>>> :) _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >>>>> nter.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>>>> e%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude >>>>> %40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmai >>> l.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri May 3 19:39:40 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:39:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <000f01ce476b$74edb010$5ec91030$@gmail.com> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> <7451381935961637936@unknownmsgid> <54FC21F6-FA85-4FDB-AAE1-E1A0092D2F7C@gmail.com> <3571558673199616285@unknownmsgid> <000801ce4765$40194530$c04bcf90$@gmail.com> <000f01ce476b$74edb010$5ec91030$@gmail.com> Message-ID: We don't know yet. I heard it's not supposed to go on the market till the fall. On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: > How much does that calculator cost, and how well does it work? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:26 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hi all, > > Me too. I'm kicking myself for it, but had I known APH was coming out with > the graphing calculator back in November I would have waited to take > college > statistics instead of just tried to get it over with. > However, Excel did a pretty good job of handling most of the formulas. > My class was graphing calculator-based so there were a few things the > other > students could do on their calculators that I could not do in Excel, but it > was nothing we couldn't work around by my teacher changing the problem to > have me interpret an equasion and demonstrate I understood how it > functioned > rather than actually fight with Excel to get a calculation it couldn't > really do. > > Justin, I don't have one personally but my Disabilities office has a > Focus40 Braille Display for me to use at school and I love it. The > Brailliant is also a very good display too, so either way I think you can't > go wrong with the 40 cell displays unless you really want something more > portable. for travel. I found they work well though. > > On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: >> Hos did your seminar go? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> christopher nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> The American printing House for the blind. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Anna Givens wrote: >> >>> What is APH? >>> >>> Anna >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 3, 2013, at 9:53 AM, christopher nusbaum >>> >> wrote: >>> >>>> It could probably work for making graphs and such. I'm interested in >>>> trying out the new graphing calculator APH is coming out with. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 3, 2013, at 10:08 AM, justin williams >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yeah, I remember my college algebra course. I don't even want to >>>>> think about trying that on a 40 cell braille display. Wonder if >>>>> excel would >> work >>>>> in algebra? >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt >>>>> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:22 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>> >>>>> Sophie, >>>>> Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just >>>>> give it >> a >>>>> shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also >> believe >>>>> there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try >>>>> reading >> with >>>>> the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I >>>>> may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a >>>>> sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more >>>>> and more of my >> assignments >>>>> have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world >>>>> is >> moving >>>>> away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward >>>>> computers, >> and >>>>> in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to >> expect >>>>> paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm >>>>> just making a point. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>> To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> mailing list >>>>> 10:42:41 >>>>>> -0600 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>>> >>>>>> Helga, >>>>>> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >>>>>> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >>>>>> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, >>>>>> in fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser >>>>>> at all for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few >>>>>> science classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps >>>>>> more relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you >>>>>> why you can't just use the braille note braille display for your >>>>>> braille reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable >>>>>> braille, you will be more able to provide adequett justification >>>>>> for why you need an embosser instead of just the braille note. >>>>>> Hope that helps, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >>>>>> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. >>>>>> I worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number >>>>>> of years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >>>>>> >>>>>> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text >>>>>> books available in electronic formats that your Braille note can >>>>>> read, or that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >>>>>> >>>>>> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office >>>>>> may need to give you a better format. They would need to do that >>>>>> f Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling >>>>>> reason that PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second >>>>>> language and that your major requires reading and comprehending >>>>>> complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is a compelling >>>>>> argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS >>>>>> office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want > it. >>>>>> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the >>>>>> text is not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit >>>>>> of work ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about >> anything. >>>>>> >>>>>> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you >>>>>> could read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. >>>>>> It is likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that >>>>>> and not offer >>>>> paper Braille. >>>>>> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own >>>>>> paper Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you >>>>>> may need to press the DS office by looking at campus options for >>>>>> due process - in other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to >>>>>> provide you with a format other than PDF. >>>>>> >>>>>> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >>>>>> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >>>>>> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they >>>>>> need to do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational > goal. >>>>>> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an >>>>> Individualized Plan for Employment. >>>>>> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >>>>>> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This >>>>>> is something they are required to provide. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck! >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >>>>>> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >>>>>> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the >>>>>> BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is >>>>>> because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading >>>>>> especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand >>>>>> the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to >>>>>> take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, >>>>>> this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was >>>>>> very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the >>>>>> Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio >>>>>> cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to >>>>>> understand the stories since my first Language is not English, >>>>>> even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of >>>>>> words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told >>>>>> me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very >>>>>> expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will >>>>>> really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature > after 1865 in the Fall semester. >>>>>> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God >>>>>> bless! >>>>>> :) _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >>>>>> nter.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>>>>> e%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude >>>>>> %40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmai >>>> l.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri May 3 19:42:16 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:42:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> Message-ID: Blogger has worked very well for me. I used it on a school project for English last semester and had no problem whatsoever. However, it isn't as advanced as what I think you're trying to do, as it sounds to me like you want multiple pages to make it more like a web site than a blog. Do I have that right? On 5/3/13, Jewel wrote: > Hi, > I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! You can > find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well it works at > flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about low and high > technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or iOS? "Talks about > android access and Apple vis. The only problem I have with blogspot is that > sometimes I have a Chabot finding the comments area to publish down. I get > around this by having it Enomine all my comments. From the email, I can read > the comment and press publish or delete, and it will send me directly to my > dashboard for further Instructions. > Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, as I > am using Siri to write it. > ~Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still >> acessible? >> I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload >> text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick >> navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only tab >> to the elements you need. >> >> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when ever >> you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m not >> sure how to change that. >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Fri May 3 19:46:28 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 19:46:28 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com>, Message-ID: Kaiti, how did you deal with the captcha on Blogger? Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kaiti Shelton [crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging Blogger has worked very well for me. I used it on a school project for English last semester and had no problem whatsoever. However, it isn't as advanced as what I think you're trying to do, as it sounds to me like you want multiple pages to make it more like a web site than a blog. Do I have that right? On 5/3/13, Jewel wrote: > Hi, > I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! You can > find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well it works at > flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about low and high > technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or iOS? "Talks about > android access and Apple vis. The only problem I have with blogspot is that > sometimes I have a Chabot finding the comments area to publish down. I get > around this by having it Enomine all my comments. From the email, I can read > the comment and press publish or delete, and it will send me directly to my > dashboard for further Instructions. > Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, as I > am using Siri to write it. > ~Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still >> acessible? >> I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload >> text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick >> navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only tab >> to the elements you need. >> >> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when ever >> you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m not >> sure how to change that. >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 2 19:51:08 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 15:51:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> <7451381935961637936@unknownmsgid> <54FC21F6-FA85-4FDB-AAE1-E1A0092D2F7C@gmail.com> <3571558673199616285@unknownmsgid> <000801ce4765$40194530$c04bcf90$@gmail.com> <000f01ce476b$74edb010$5ec91030$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001a01ce476e$64911f10$2db35d30$@gmail.com> Well, I'll make sure not to take my research stastics class until fall 2014. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program We don't know yet. I heard it's not supposed to go on the market till the fall. On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: > How much does that calculator cost, and how well does it work? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:26 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > Hi all, > > Me too. I'm kicking myself for it, but had I known APH was coming out with > the graphing calculator back in November I would have waited to take > college > statistics instead of just tried to get it over with. > However, Excel did a pretty good job of handling most of the formulas. > My class was graphing calculator-based so there were a few things the > other > students could do on their calculators that I could not do in Excel, but it > was nothing we couldn't work around by my teacher changing the problem to > have me interpret an equasion and demonstrate I understood how it > functioned > rather than actually fight with Excel to get a calculation it couldn't > really do. > > Justin, I don't have one personally but my Disabilities office has a > Focus40 Braille Display for me to use at school and I love it. The > Brailliant is also a very good display too, so either way I think you can't > go wrong with the 40 cell displays unless you really want something more > portable. for travel. I found they work well though. > > On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: >> Hos did your seminar go? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> christopher nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> The American printing House for the blind. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Anna Givens wrote: >> >>> What is APH? >>> >>> Anna >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 3, 2013, at 9:53 AM, christopher nusbaum >>> >> wrote: >>> >>>> It could probably work for making graphs and such. I'm interested in >>>> trying out the new graphing calculator APH is coming out with. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 3, 2013, at 10:08 AM, justin williams >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yeah, I remember my college algebra course. I don't even want to >>>>> think about trying that on a 40 cell braille display. Wonder if >>>>> excel would >> work >>>>> in algebra? >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt >>>>> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:22 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>> >>>>> Sophie, >>>>> Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just >>>>> give it >> a >>>>> shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also >> believe >>>>> there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try >>>>> reading >> with >>>>> the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I >>>>> may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a >>>>> sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more >>>>> and more of my >> assignments >>>>> have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world >>>>> is >> moving >>>>> away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward >>>>> computers, >> and >>>>> in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to >> expect >>>>> paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm >>>>> just making a point. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>> To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> mailing list >>>>> 10:42:41 >>>>>> -0600 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>>> >>>>>> Helga, >>>>>> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >>>>>> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >>>>>> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, >>>>>> in fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser >>>>>> at all for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few >>>>>> science classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps >>>>>> more relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you >>>>>> why you can't just use the braille note braille display for your >>>>>> braille reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable >>>>>> braille, you will be more able to provide adequett justification >>>>>> for why you need an embosser instead of just the braille note. >>>>>> Hope that helps, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >>>>>> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. >>>>>> I worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number >>>>>> of years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >>>>>> >>>>>> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text >>>>>> books available in electronic formats that your Braille note can >>>>>> read, or that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >>>>>> >>>>>> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office >>>>>> may need to give you a better format. They would need to do that >>>>>> f Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling >>>>>> reason that PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second >>>>>> language and that your major requires reading and comprehending >>>>>> complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is a compelling >>>>>> argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS >>>>>> office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want > it. >>>>>> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the >>>>>> text is not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit >>>>>> of work ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about >> anything. >>>>>> >>>>>> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you >>>>>> could read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. >>>>>> It is likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that >>>>>> and not offer >>>>> paper Braille. >>>>>> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own >>>>>> paper Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you >>>>>> may need to press the DS office by looking at campus options for >>>>>> due process - in other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to >>>>>> provide you with a format other than PDF. >>>>>> >>>>>> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >>>>>> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >>>>>> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they >>>>>> need to do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational > goal. >>>>>> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an >>>>> Individualized Plan for Employment. >>>>>> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >>>>>> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This >>>>>> is something they are required to provide. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck! >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >>>>>> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >>>>>> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the >>>>>> BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is >>>>>> because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading >>>>>> especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand >>>>>> the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to >>>>>> take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, >>>>>> this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was >>>>>> very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the >>>>>> Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio >>>>>> cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to >>>>>> understand the stories since my first Language is not English, >>>>>> even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of >>>>>> words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told >>>>>> me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very >>>>>> expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will >>>>>> really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American Literature > after 1865 in the Fall semester. >>>>>> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God >>>>>> bless! >>>>>> :) _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >>>>>> nter.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>>>>> e%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude >>>>>> %40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmai >>>> l.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai l.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri May 3 20:31:46 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 16:31:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I didn't have to deal with it, as I signed in with my google account. On 5/3/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Kaiti, how did you deal with the captcha on Blogger? > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kaiti Shelton > [crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging > > Blogger has worked very well for me. I used it on a school project > for English last semester and had no problem whatsoever. However, it > isn't as advanced as what I think you're trying to do, as it sounds to > me like you want multiple pages to make it more like a web site than a > blog. Do I have that right? > > > > On 5/3/13, Jewel wrote: >> Hi, >> I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! You >> can >> find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well it works at >> flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about low and high >> technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or iOS? "Talks about >> android access and Apple vis. The only problem I have with blogspot is >> that >> sometimes I have a Chabot finding the comments area to publish down. I >> get >> around this by having it Enomine all my comments. From the email, I can >> read >> the comment and press publish or delete, and it will send me directly to >> my >> dashboard for further Instructions. >> Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, as >> I >> am using Siri to write it. >> ~Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still >>> acessible? >>> I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload >>> text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick >>> navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only >>> tab >>> to the elements you need. >>> >>> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when >>> ever >>> you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m >>> not >>> sure how to change that. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net Fri May 3 20:37:07 2013 From: jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net (Jessica Silva) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 14:37:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey Ashly. Adding a new post and a new page are different. If u want a new page you have to add it via pages on your dashboard. Hope that helps. Jess Check out my blog. http://empowernetwork.com/jessicasilva Http://Www.makemoneywithjessica.com On May 3, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Jewel wrote: > Hi, > I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! You can find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well it works at flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about low and high technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or iOS? "Talks about android access and Apple vis. The only problem I have with blogspot is that sometimes I have a Chabot finding the comments area to publish down. I get around this by having it Enomine all my comments. From the email, I can read the comment and press publish or delete, and it will send me directly to my dashboard for further Instructions. > Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, as I am using Siri to write it. > ~Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still acessible? >> I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only tab to the elements you need. >> >> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when ever you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m not sure how to change that. >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessmonsilva2003%40sbcglobal.net From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Fri May 3 20:38:45 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 20:38:45 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> , Message-ID: Interesting! I just wish GMail didn't have an audio captcha that won't play. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kaiti Shelton [crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging Hi, I didn't have to deal with it, as I signed in with my google account. On 5/3/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Kaiti, how did you deal with the captcha on Blogger? > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kaiti Shelton > [crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging > > Blogger has worked very well for me. I used it on a school project > for English last semester and had no problem whatsoever. However, it > isn't as advanced as what I think you're trying to do, as it sounds to > me like you want multiple pages to make it more like a web site than a > blog. Do I have that right? > > > > On 5/3/13, Jewel wrote: >> Hi, >> I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! You >> can >> find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well it works at >> flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about low and high >> technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or iOS? "Talks about >> android access and Apple vis. The only problem I have with blogspot is >> that >> sometimes I have a Chabot finding the comments area to publish down. I >> get >> around this by having it Enomine all my comments. From the email, I can >> read >> the comment and press publish or delete, and it will send me directly to >> my >> dashboard for further Instructions. >> Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, as >> I >> am using Siri to write it. >> ~Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still >>> acessible? >>> I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload >>> text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick >>> navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only >>> tab >>> to the elements you need. >>> >>> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when >>> ever >>> you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m >>> not >>> sure how to change that. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net Fri May 3 20:42:36 2013 From: jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net (Jessica Silva) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 14:42:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> Message-ID: <068E3AE8-39FA-44B9-938B-BF854F1A447F@sbcglobal.net> Btw u can email me off list if u need help. I have 3 Wordpress platform blogs so I'll help where I can. Jess Check out my blog. http://empowernetwork.com/jessicasilva Http://Www.makemoneywithjessica.com On May 3, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Jessica Silva wrote: > Hey Ashly. > Adding a new post and a new page are different. If u want a new page you have to add it via pages on your dashboard. > Hope that helps. > Jess > > > Check out my blog. > http://empowernetwork.com/jessicasilva > > Http://Www.makemoneywithjessica.com > > > On May 3, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Jewel wrote: > >> Hi, >> I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! You can find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well it works at flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about low and high technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or iOS? "Talks about android access and Apple vis. The only problem I have with blogspot is that sometimes I have a Chabot finding the comments area to publish down. I get around this by having it Enomine all my comments. From the email, I can read the comment and press publish or delete, and it will send me directly to my dashboard for further Instructions. >> Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, as I am using Siri to write it. >> ~Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still acessible? >>> I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only tab to the elements you need. >>> >>> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when ever you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m not sure how to change that. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessmonsilva2003%40sbcglobal.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessmonsilva2003%40sbcglobal.net From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri May 3 21:14:15 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 17:14:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program In-Reply-To: <001a01ce476e$64911f10$2db35d30$@gmail.com> References: <5182cc5b.a360b60a.7b72.5cf1@mx.google.com> <003e01ce473e$99514e30$cbf3ea90$@gmail.com> <7451381935961637936@unknownmsgid> <54FC21F6-FA85-4FDB-AAE1-E1A0092D2F7C@gmail.com> <3571558673199616285@unknownmsgid> <000801ce4765$40194530$c04bcf90$@gmail.com> <000f01ce476b$74edb010$5ec91030$@gmail.com> <001a01ce476e$64911f10$2db35d30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, depending on how the stats class is taught you could get through it with no problem. I had a few friends who had Excel-based stats classes, where even the sighted students were taught using Excel, and they did fine with it; it's just if it's graphing calculator-based then it becomes a little more challenging. Still, probably a good move to wait, just so you can have multiple resources available to you. On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: > Well, I'll make sure not to take my research stastics class until fall > 2014. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program > > We don't know yet. I heard it's not supposed to go on the market till the > fall. > > On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: >> How much does that calculator cost, and how well does it work? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:26 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >> >> Hi all, >> >> Me too. I'm kicking myself for it, but had I known APH was coming out > with >> the graphing calculator back in November I would have waited to take >> college >> statistics instead of just tried to get it over with. >> However, Excel did a pretty good job of handling most of the formulas. >> My class was graphing calculator-based so there were a few things the >> other >> students could do on their calculators that I could not do in Excel, but > it >> was nothing we couldn't work around by my teacher changing the problem to >> have me interpret an equasion and demonstrate I understood how it >> functioned >> rather than actually fight with Excel to get a calculation it couldn't >> really do. >> >> Justin, I don't have one personally but my Disabilities office has a >> Focus40 Braille Display for me to use at school and I love it. The >> Brailliant is also a very good display too, so either way I think you > can't >> go wrong with the 40 cell displays unless you really want something more >> portable. for travel. I found they work well though. >> >> On 5/2/13, justin williams wrote: >>> Hos did your seminar go? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> christopher nusbaum >>> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:40 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>> >>> The American printing House for the blind. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 3, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Anna Givens wrote: >>> >>>> What is APH? >>>> >>>> Anna >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 3, 2013, at 9:53 AM, christopher nusbaum >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It could probably work for making graphs and such. I'm interested in >>>>> trying out the new graphing calculator APH is coming out with. >>>>> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On May 3, 2013, at 10:08 AM, justin williams >>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, I remember my college algebra course. I don't even want to >>>>>> think about trying that on a 40 cell braille display. Wonder if >>>>>> excel would >>> work >>>>>> in algebra? >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt >>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:22 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>>> >>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>> Try doing college algebra on a single line braille display, just >>>>>> give it >>> a >>>>>> shot, and I think you'll be singing quite a different tune. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 2, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Sophie Trist >>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also >>> believe >>>>>> there's another extremely relevant reason why you should try >>>>>> reading >>> with >>>>>> the braillenote's display. Paper braille is becoming obsolete. I >>>>>> may get some flack on the list for this, but it is true. I'm a >>>>>> sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or so, more >>>>>> and more of my >>> assignments >>>>>> have either been emailed to me or put on a flash drive. The world >>>>>> is >>> moving >>>>>> away from paper (well, the blind world, at least) and toward >>>>>> computers, >>> and >>>>>> in your future place of employment, it would be very unrealistic to >>> expect >>>>>> paper braille in anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm >>>>>> just making a point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>> To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>> 10:42:41 >>>>>>> -0600 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helga, >>>>>>> I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable braille >>>>>>> display first. There are two reasons for this. First, you might >>>>>>> discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, >>>>>>> in fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser >>>>>>> at all for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few >>>>>>> science classes being the exception, perhaps. Second, and perhaps >>>>>>> more relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you >>>>>>> why you can't just use the braille note braille display for your >>>>>>> braille reading. Having become familiar with the refreshable >>>>>>> braille, you will be more able to provide adequett justification >>>>>>> for why you need an embosser instead of just the braille note. >>>>>>> Hope that helps, >>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/2/13, Dan Burke wrote: >>>>>>> If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student .. >>>>>>> I worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number >>>>>>> of years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text >>>>>>> books available in electronic formats that your Braille note can >>>>>>> read, or that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office >>>>>>> may need to give you a better format. They would need to do that >>>>>>> f Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling >>>>>>> reason that PDF isn't good enough. That English is your second >>>>>>> language and that your major requires reading and comprehending >>>>>>> complex literature (and what major doesn't?), is a compelling >>>>>>> argument in my opinion. You need to make that clear to the DS >>>>>>> office, but you will very likely have to push it if you really want >> it. >>>>>>> They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the >>>>>>> text is not available at Bookshare. But you will have a good bit >>>>>>> of work ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille >>>>>>> document. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about >>> anything. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With a Word file, you can do a couple of things. Of course you >>>>>>> could read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display. >>>>>>> It is likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that >>>>>>> and not offer >>>>>> paper Braille. >>>>>>> With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own >>>>>>> paper Braille, which you have obviously thought about. But you >>>>>>> may need to press the DS office by looking at campus options for >>>>>>> due process - in other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to >>>>>>> provide you with a format other than PDF. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers are >>>>>>> expensive just isn't good enough. Your reasons for having one are >>>>>>> pretty good. If they are to deny this bit of technology, they >>>>>>> need to do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational >> goal. >>>>>>> They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an >>>>>> Individualized Plan for Employment. >>>>>>> Again, you will likely have to push this. You can start by asking >>>>>>> your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This >>>>>>> is something they are required to provide. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good luck! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga. I just >>>>>>> would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury >>>>>>> program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the >>>>>>> BrailleNote apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is >>>>>>> because I like to read Braille because is my prefer way of reading >>>>>>> especially when I'm reading stories that are hard to understand >>>>>>> the wording. I'm actually doing an English major where I need to >>>>>>> take Literature classes that involve a lot of reading. Actually, >>>>>>> this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was >>>>>>> very challenging for me because the only accessable format of the >>>>>>> Book that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio >>>>>>> cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to >>>>>>> understand the stories since my first Language is not English, >>>>>>> even though I speak it, I'm still working on my comprehension of >>>>>>> words. I also talked to my DBS counceler about this and she told >>>>>>> me that she would not buy me the Braille printer because is very >>>>>>> expensive. I really Think a Braille paper copy of a reading will >>>>>>> really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking American >>>>>>> Literature >> after 1865 in the Fall semester. >>>>>>> Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God >>>>>>> bless! >>>>>>> :) _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40coce >>>>>>> nter.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>>>>>> e%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude >>>>>>> %40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>> 0gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>> mail.c >>> om >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>> mail.c >>> om >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>> 0gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai > l.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 2 22:32:57 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 18:32:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] word 1010 Message-ID: <004e01ce4784$ff773260$fe659720$@gmail.com> Does anyone no why the fine feature in word keeps defaulting back to finding headings instead of results. If I copy paste something into find feature, it sayd find next heading. Trying to hit enter or space on search results doen's work. Is there a setting some where? From jsoro620 at gmail.com Fri May 3 22:32:18 2013 From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 18:32:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00c601ce484e$12519af0$36f4d0d0$@gmail.com> Blogger lets you create individual pages as well. I think WordPress and Blogger are now neck and neck. I would lean to Blogger if only because I think there's a greater chance to do some monetizing if you wanted to go that route with your blog, and who could forego a little extra cash without lifting a finger? Well, there's more to it than that, but you generally can't go wrong with Google products, until the products are pulled, but I would be very surprised if they pulled their blogging platform. As far as the CAPTCHA, there's now a telephone verification system. Joe -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging Blogger has worked very well for me. I used it on a school project for English last semester and had no problem whatsoever. However, it isn't as advanced as what I think you're trying to do, as it sounds to me like you want multiple pages to make it more like a web site than a blog. Do I have that right? On 5/3/13, Jewel wrote: > Hi, > I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! > You can find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well > it works at flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about > low and high technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or > iOS? "Talks about android access and Apple vis. The only problem I > have with blogspot is that sometimes I have a Chabot finding the > comments area to publish down. I get around this by having it Enomine > all my comments. From the email, I can read the comment and press > publish or delete, and it will send me directly to my dashboard for further Instructions. > Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, > as I am using Siri to write it. > ~Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" > > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still >> acessible? >> I'm trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to >> upload text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the >> quick navigation keys of B for button or l for list don't work. You >> can only tab to the elements you need. >> >> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when >> ever you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home >> page. I'm not sure how to change that. >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Fri May 3 22:45:12 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 16:45:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC><16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> <068E3AE8-39FA-44B9-938B-BF854F1A447F@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <30C06518EDA44E66B39ED2837F20DDC9@HP30910210001> wow three pages. I only have two on word press. I wish there was a way to merge both blogs so I can post in both at one time. Blessings, Sincerely, Melissa and Pj Find me on: Twitter melissa5674 facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica Silva" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging Btw u can email me off list if u need help. I have 3 Wordpress platform blogs so I'll help where I can. Jess Check out my blog. http://empowernetwork.com/jessicasilva Http://Www.makemoneywithjessica.com On May 3, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Jessica Silva wrote: > Hey Ashly. > Adding a new post and a new page are different. If u want a new page you > have to add it via pages on your dashboard. > Hope that helps. > Jess > > > Check out my blog. > http://empowernetwork.com/jessicasilva > > Http://Www.makemoneywithjessica.com > > > On May 3, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Jewel wrote: > >> Hi, >> I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! You >> can find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well it >> works at flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about low and >> high technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or iOS? "Talks >> about android access and Apple vis. The only problem I have with >> blogspot is that sometimes I have a Chabot finding the comments area to >> publish down. I get around this by having it Enomine all my comments. >> From the email, I can read the comment and press publish or delete, and >> it will send me directly to my dashboard for further Instructions. >> Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, as >> I am using Siri to write it. >> ~Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still >>> acessible? >>> I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload >>> text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick >>> navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only >>> tab to the elements you need. >>> >>> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when >>> ever you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m >>> not sure how to change that. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessmonsilva2003%40sbcglobal.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessmonsilva2003%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri May 3 23:16:32 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 19:16:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC><16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> Message-ID: Kaiti, Yes I want multiple pages; so a user can click to various pages from the home page. -----Original Message----- From: Kaiti Shelton Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging Blogger has worked very well for me. I used it on a school project for English last semester and had no problem whatsoever. However, it isn't as advanced as what I think you're trying to do, as it sounds to me like you want multiple pages to make it more like a web site than a blog. Do I have that right? On 5/3/13, Jewel wrote: > Hi, > I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! You > can > find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well it works at > flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about low and high > technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or iOS? "Talks about > android access and Apple vis. The only problem I have with blogspot is > that > sometimes I have a Chabot finding the comments area to publish down. I get > around this by having it Enomine all my comments. From the email, I can > read > the comment and press publish or delete, and it will send me directly to > my > dashboard for further Instructions. > Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, as > I > am using Siri to write it. > ~Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still >> acessible? >> I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload >> text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick >> navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only >> tab >> to the elements you need. >> >> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when ever >> you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m not >> sure how to change that. >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From beckyasabo at gmail.com Sat May 4 08:33:59 2013 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (Rebecca Sabo) Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 02:33:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] word 1010 In-Reply-To: <004e01ce4784$ff773260$fe659720$@gmail.com> References: <004e01ce4784$ff773260$fe659720$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <686573D6-32EC-4610-80EA-ED4347F76894@gmail.com> Hi , Where are you using word through a windows computer or a mack computer? Becky Sabo On May 2, 2013, at 4:32 PM, justin williams wrote: > Does anyone no why the fine feature in word keeps defaulting back to finding > headings instead of results. If I copy paste something into find feature, > it sayd find next heading. Trying to hit enter or space on search results > doen's work. Is there a setting some where? > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Fri May 3 13:53:39 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 09:53:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] word 1010 In-Reply-To: <686573D6-32EC-4610-80EA-ED4347F76894@gmail.com> References: <004e01ce4784$ff773260$fe659720$@gmail.com> <686573D6-32EC-4610-80EA-ED4347F76894@gmail.com> Message-ID: <006d01ce4805$9e2f9d40$da8ed7c0$@gmail.com> Windows. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rebecca Sabo Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 4:34 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] word 1010 Hi , Where are you using word through a windows computer or a mack computer? Becky Sabo On May 2, 2013, at 4:32 PM, justin williams wrote: > Does anyone no why the fine feature in word keeps defaulting back to > finding headings instead of results. If I copy paste something into > find feature, it sayd find next heading. Trying to hit enter or space > on search results doen's work. Is there a setting some where? > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat May 4 16:00:45 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 12:00:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: <00c601ce484e$12519af0$36f4d0d0$@gmail.com> References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC> <16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com> <00c601ce484e$12519af0$36f4d0d0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: but you have to have a gmail account for blogger. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 6:32 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging Blogger lets you create individual pages as well. I think WordPress and Blogger are now neck and neck. I would lean to Blogger if only because I think there's a greater chance to do some monetizing if you wanted to go that route with your blog, and who could forego a little extra cash without lifting a finger? Well, there's more to it than that, but you generally can't go wrong with Google products, until the products are pulled, but I would be very surprised if they pulled their blogging platform. As far as the CAPTCHA, there's now a telephone verification system. Joe -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging Blogger has worked very well for me. I used it on a school project for English last semester and had no problem whatsoever. However, it isn't as advanced as what I think you're trying to do, as it sounds to me like you want multiple pages to make it more like a web site than a blog. Do I have that right? On 5/3/13, Jewel wrote: > Hi, > I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! > You can find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well > it works at flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about > low and high technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or > iOS? "Talks about android access and Apple vis. The only problem I > have with blogspot is that sometimes I have a Chabot finding the > comments area to publish down. I get around this by having it Enomine > all my comments. From the email, I can read the comment and press > publish or delete, and it will send me directly to my dashboard for further Instructions. > Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, > as I am using Siri to write it. > ~Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" > > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still >> acessible? >> I'm trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to >> upload text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the >> quick navigation keys of B for button or l for list don't work. You >> can only tab to the elements you need. >> >> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when >> ever you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home >> page. I'm not sure how to change that. >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat May 4 16:01:52 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 12:01:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blogging In-Reply-To: <30C06518EDA44E66B39ED2837F20DDC9@HP30910210001> References: <944EE2F6641B4AE6A035A600502D1663@OwnerPC><16929AE9-B298-4A06-9272-0F1D0D6E5015@gmail.com><068E3AE8-39FA-44B9-938B-BF854F1A447F@sbcglobal.net> <30C06518EDA44E66B39ED2837F20DDC9@HP30910210001> Message-ID: Melissa, You can type your blog content in word and copy the text to each blog. Not exactly at once, but it makes it easier so you don't have to retype anything. -----Original Message----- From: melissa Green Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 6:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging wow three pages. I only have two on word press. I wish there was a way to merge both blogs so I can post in both at one time. Blessings, Sincerely, Melissa and Pj Find me on: Twitter melissa5674 facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica Silva" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blogging Btw u can email me off list if u need help. I have 3 Wordpress platform blogs so I'll help where I can. Jess Check out my blog. http://empowernetwork.com/jessicasilva Http://Www.makemoneywithjessica.com On May 3, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Jessica Silva wrote: > Hey Ashly. > Adding a new post and a new page are different. If u want a new page you > have to add it via pages on your dashboard. > Hope that helps. > Jess > > > Check out my blog. > http://empowernetwork.com/jessicasilva > > Http://Www.makemoneywithjessica.com > > > On May 3, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Jewel wrote: > >> Hi, >> I used blogspot. I love it, and it is fully accessible to the blind! You >> can find it at www.blogger.com, and visit my blog to see how well it >> works at flying treasure chest.blogspot.com Which is a blog about low and >> high technology for the blind. Our latest post, "android or iOS? "Talks >> about android access and Apple vis. The only problem I have with >> blogspot is that sometimes I have a Chabot finding the comments area to >> publish down. I get around this by having it Enomine all my comments. >> From the email, I can read the comment and press publish or delete, and >> it will send me directly to my dashboard for further Instructions. >> Please excuse in me and all spelling and grammar errors in this email, as >> I am using Siri to write it. >> ~Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 3, 2013, at 3:50 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I wanted to know which blog sites are accessible. Is wordpress still >>> acessible? >>> I’m trying to use it and it seems to me that when attempting to upload >>> text by pasting it in, jaws does not read the text and the quick >>> navigation keys of B for button or l for list don’t work. You can only >>> tab to the elements you need. >>> >>> Also, how do you create a new page within wordpress? By default when >>> ever you select new post from dashboard, it puts it in your home page. I’m >>> not sure how to change that. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessmonsilva2003%40sbcglobal.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessmonsilva2003%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Sat May 4 22:03:42 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 04 May 2013 17:03:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Do not miss this: Make the iPad accessible for the classroom! Message-ID: > >Cover of "iOS Success" >iOS >Success: Making the iPad Accessible >A Guide for Teachers and Parents >by Larry L. Lewis > >Large print edition: $28 >Or in braille, eBraille, DAISY, ASCII, mp3, or Word: $20 > >Read >the full Table of Contents! > >iOS technology is a game changer. School >districts across the country are purchasing and >deploying iPads to students across grade levels >- even integrating them into the classroom >curriculum. But how many teachers and parents >are ready to ensure that their blind students >have equal access to all the iPad has to offer? > >iOS Success, written by a blind user and iPad >instructor, gives step-by-step instructions for >every pertinent accessibility feature the iPad >has to offer - including getting acquainted with >VoiceOver and Zoom, setting accessibility >options, pairing external devices such as >keyboards and refreshable braille displays, >setting up Apple accounts to buy apps like >iBooks, using the Cloud and Dropbox, and much, >much more. The last chapter includes tips from >blind students who use their iPads daily and one >very committed parent who is mastering iOS technology alongside his blind sons. > >The book assumes the reader has never used an >iPad, and it's written in plain English. >Although it is geared to parents and teachers, >there is plenty of useful advice for blind users >as well. What are you waiting for? Join the iOS revolution! > >Order >the book - and read the table of contents. > >LARRY LEWIS, JR. is the founder and owner of >Flying Blind, LLC, whose mission is to develop >and market adaptive technology solutions for >people who are blind. Lewis offers a daylong >professional development seminar entitled, "The >Apple Accessibility Initiative." > >****** >To order any books, send payment to: >NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 >Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520. >Or order any of our books online at >http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html. > >Forward >to a friend > > >NBP logo > > > > > > >Copyright © 2013 National Braille Press, All rights reserved. > >National Braille Press >88 Saint Stephen St >Boston, MA 02115 > >Add >us to your address book > > >www.nbp.org > > > Connect with us! > >Facebook logo > >Twitter logo > > >Linkedin logo > >YouTube logo > > >[] > > > >Email Marketing Powered by MailChimp > From weirdwriter9891 at gmail.com Sat May 4 23:07:01 2013 From: weirdwriter9891 at gmail.com (The weird writer) Date: Sat, 04 May 2013 18:07:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] free screen reader review in the brale monitor. Message-ID: <51859495.9060206@gmail.com> I am not sure if you have seen this but below is a free screen reader review in the braile monitor about NVDA. https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm13/bm1305/bm130507.htm and here is the Mp3 version. https://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/audio/braille_monitor/2013/may/09_my_search_for_accessibility.mp3 From kwakmiso at aol.com Sun May 5 07:27:01 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 03:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D0177911C5B51B-1BDC-3EB0@webmail-m203.sysops.aol.com> I plan to send out an e-mail invitation to a group of people at once. Is there any accessible website you recommend that is free? Other than Facebook event feature and Google calendar Would appreciate feedback. Miso From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun May 5 14:34:44 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 10:34:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: <8D0177911C5B51B-1BDC-3EB0@webmail-m203.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D0177911C5B51B-1BDC-3EB0@webmail-m203.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1198566339963595570@unknownmsgid> Why not just send them all an email? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 5, 2013, at 3:35 AM, Miso Kwak wrote: > I plan to send out an e-mail invitation to a group of people at once. > Is there any accessible website you recommend that is free? > Other than Facebook event feature and Google calendar > Would appreciate feedback. > Miso > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sun May 5 14:56:02 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 10:56:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Treasure Chest for the Blind Message-ID: I have decided to make a second and stronger effort at reviving my blog, the Treasure Chest for the Blind. The blog can be found at blindtreasurechest. Blogspot. Com, and focuses on high and low technology. Some of the past topics have included Kitchen's Inc. Games, Day by Day calendar, and alternatives to print phonebooks. The newest topic was websites that review apps for smart phones. I would love input on format and accessibility, as well as topics you would like to see covered. Also, I am always looking for guest writers, so talk to me if you want to add to the blog, or would like me to be a guest writer on your own blog. I am hoping for a good year in the blog world; so many people have written me asking me to bring the blog back because they loved it. I also hope to have a Facebook page for it soon, with updates on new blogs and discussions about new technology, and a friend who is a graphic designer is going to make a logo! -Jewel Typed with Fleksy reply://herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Sat May 4 15:15:48 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 11:15:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: <1198566339963595570@unknownmsgid> References: <8D0177911C5B51B-1BDC-3EB0@webmail-m203.sysops.aol.com> <1198566339963595570@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <003401ce48da$42345780$c69d0680$@gmail.com> Distribution list. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher nusbaum Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 10:35 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites Why not just send them all an email? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 5, 2013, at 3:35 AM, Miso Kwak wrote: > I plan to send out an e-mail invitation to a group of people at once. > Is there any accessible website you recommend that is free? > Other than Facebook event feature and Google calendar Would appreciate > feedback. > Miso > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sun May 5 15:46:16 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:46:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: <003401ce48da$42345780$c69d0680$@gmail.com> References: <8D0177911C5B51B-1BDC-3EB0@webmail-m203.sysops.aol.com> <1198566339963595570@unknownmsgid> <003401ce48da$42345780$c69d0680$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I went on to evite.com real quick since I was familiar with getting invitations from there. I went through the process of making an invitation for a graduation party, stopping just short of sending it out and it was pretty accessible. The best thing is that although the descriptions of the invitations aren't very specific, a few give enough information for you to choose the one you like. Hope this helps. On 5/4/13, justin williams wrote: > Distribution list. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher > nusbaum > Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 10:35 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites > > Why not just send them all an email? > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 5, 2013, at 3:35 AM, Miso Kwak wrote: > >> I plan to send out an e-mail invitation to a group of people at once. >> Is there any accessible website you recommend that is free? >> Other than Facebook event feature and Google calendar Would appreciate >> feedback. >> Miso >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun May 5 15:48:30 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 09:48:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: <003401ce48da$42345780$c69d0680$@gmail.com> References: <8D0177911C5B51B-1BDC-3EB0@webmail-m203.sysops.aol.com> <1198566339963595570@unknownmsgid> <003401ce48da$42345780$c69d0680$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've gotten invitations from www.evite.com and was able to respond to them accessibly, but I haven't tried sending an invitation through their site. It is probably accessible. The advantage of using Evite is that it automatically keeps track of RSVP's for you. Arielle On 5/4/13, justin williams wrote: > Distribution list. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher > nusbaum > Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 10:35 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites > > Why not just send them all an email? > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 5, 2013, at 3:35 AM, Miso Kwak wrote: > >> I plan to send out an e-mail invitation to a group of people at once. >> Is there any accessible website you recommend that is free? >> Other than Facebook event feature and Google calendar Would appreciate >> feedback. >> Miso >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sun May 5 16:17:57 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 12:17:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: References: <8D0177911C5B51B-1BDC-3EB0@webmail-m203.sysops.aol.com> <1198566339963595570@unknownmsgid> <003401ce48da$42345780$c69d0680$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I use Jaws 13 and it worked well. On 5/5/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I've gotten invitations from > www.evite.com > and was able to respond to them accessibly, but I haven't tried > sending an invitation through their site. It is probably accessible. > The advantage of using Evite is that it automatically keeps track of > RSVP's for you. > > Arielle > > On 5/4/13, justin williams wrote: >> Distribution list. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher >> nusbaum >> Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 10:35 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites >> >> Why not just send them all an email? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 5, 2013, at 3:35 AM, Miso Kwak wrote: >> >>> I plan to send out an e-mail invitation to a group of people at once. >>> Is there any accessible website you recommend that is free? >>> Other than Facebook event feature and Google calendar Would appreciate >>> feedback. >>> Miso >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun May 5 19:39:10 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 15:39:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: <1198566339963595570@unknownmsgid> References: <8D0177911C5B51B-1BDC-3EB0@webmail-m203.sysops.aol.com> <1198566339963595570@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <8D0D20C843004A5F82BE7D292CA04E5B@OwnerPC> Chris, because doing it through a website helps you track who responds. Also, some people may not want to type in everyone's address. -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 10:34 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites Why not just send them all an email? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 5, 2013, at 3:35 AM, Miso Kwak wrote: > I plan to send out an e-mail invitation to a group of people at once. > Is there any accessible website you recommend that is free? > Other than Facebook event feature and Google calendar > Would appreciate feedback. > Miso > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kwakmiso at aol.com Sun May 5 19:40:32 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 12:40:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites Message-ID: I will try evite. Justin what is distribution list? Does anyone know how to disclose email receipients list if i decide to use just email on aol? From kwakmiso at aol.com Sun May 5 19:51:53 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 12:51:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites Message-ID: I am acturally considering to use just email. I just want to make sure the receipient list can be undisclosed From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun May 5 20:34:57 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 16:34:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: <8D0D20C843004A5F82BE7D292CA04E5B@OwnerPC> References: <8D0177911C5B51B-1BDC-3EB0@webmail-m203.sysops.aol.com> <1198566339963595570@unknownmsgid> <8D0D20C843004A5F82BE7D292CA04E5B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <009501ce49d0$029d6de0$07d849a0$@gmail.com> Ashley, I see. Thank you for the clarification. Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 3:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites Chris, because doing it through a website helps you track who responds. Also, some people may not want to type in everyone's address. -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 10:34 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites Why not just send them all an email? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 5, 2013, at 3:35 AM, Miso Kwak wrote: > I plan to send out an e-mail invitation to a group of people at once. > Is there any accessible website you recommend that is free? > Other than Facebook event feature and Google calendar Would appreciate > feedback. > Miso > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Sat May 4 20:58:38 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 16:58:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: <5186b882.a1a6ec0a.348d.fffff1a0SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <5186b882.a1a6ec0a.348d.fffff1a0SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <006501ce490a$26f2ccb0$74d86610$@gmail.com> The distribution list will show the name of the group, but not the members. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 3:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites I am acturally considering to use just email. I just want to make sure the receipient list can be undisclosed _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Sat May 4 20:58:53 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 16:58:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: <5186b600.0699ec0a.7559.36e8SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <5186b600.0699ec0a.7559.36e8SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <006701ce490a$30342f30$909c8d90$@gmail.com> It is in outlook. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 3:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites I will try evite. Justin what is distribution list? Does anyone know how to disclose email receipients list if i decide to use just email on aol? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun May 5 21:45:55 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 17:45:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] free screen reader review in the brale monitor. In-Reply-To: <51859495.9060206@gmail.com> References: <51859495.9060206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <009e01ce49d9$ef41c980$cdc55c80$@gmail.com> I did see that, Robert! Congratulations on getting your article published in the Monitor. Hopefully Gary will publish mine... Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird writer Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 7:07 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] free screen reader review in the brale monitor. I am not sure if you have seen this but below is a free screen reader review in the braile monitor about NVDA. https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm13/bm1305/bm130507.htm and here is the Mp3 version. https://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/audio/braille_monitor/2013/may/09_my_search_f or_accessibility.mp3 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From sgermano at asu.edu Sun May 5 23:22:44 2013 From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 16:22:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible and free invitation websites In-Reply-To: <20130505195254.5E5E431B4683@bcnet8.asu.edu> References: <20130505195254.5E5E431B4683@bcnet8.asu.edu> Message-ID: You email it to yourself and everyone else is BCC blind carbon copy then no one sees any other email addresses On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Miso wrote: > I am acturally considering to use just email. I just want to make sure the > receipient list can be undisclosed > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 6 00:04:21 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 20:04:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible option to When is Good or a Google Docs Spreadsheet Message-ID: Hi all, This may be a long shot, but any information or suggestions would be appreciated. I recently was given an appointed position in a fraternity, which involves coordinating events and making sure enough people are signed up to cover all of them through the semester. I'm trying to think ahead about it so that when I need to start coordinating later in the summer I'll possibly have an accessible way that will work for me and everyone. I would like to find a way of creating something that I can send out to the entire fraternity that will update as each member signs up for their event shifts. I've been on the receiving end of Google Doc spread sheets and When is Good forms so I know for sighted people they work, but my main concern is being able to make something like this and set it up. Would you guys happen to know of something that serves a similar function, but has a set up process which is accessible with Jaws? My back up plan is just to make a spreadsheet on my computer, bring it to the first meeting of next semester, and have people sign up in the document itself, then go home afterwards and email it so everyone has access to the final copy. Then they could email me with any changes or substitutions they want to make. I realize this might be the best way for me to do it, and it would certainly ensure that everyone signed up, but if there are any online alternatives like When is Good I would like to consider them. Thanks, -- Kaiti From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon May 6 00:34:31 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 20:34:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible option to When is Good or a Google Docs Spreadsheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00ae01ce49f1$79c01320$6d403960$@gmail.com> Kaiti, If I'm understanding what you want to do correctly, doodle.com should work for this. Doodle is a free and accessible scheduling tool which allows you to create a "poll" for an event and invite people to it via email. When the people you invite receive the invitation email from Doodle, they can click on a link which takes them to a page where they can select the best time for them. This is especially useful for scheduling meetings and similar events. If you have any questions about Doodle, please let me know either on-list or off. HTH, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 8:04 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible option to When is Good or a Google Docs Spreadsheet Hi all, This may be a long shot, but any information or suggestions would be appreciated. I recently was given an appointed position in a fraternity, which involves coordinating events and making sure enough people are signed up to cover all of them through the semester. I'm trying to think ahead about it so that when I need to start coordinating later in the summer I'll possibly have an accessible way that will work for me and everyone. I would like to find a way of creating something that I can send out to the entire fraternity that will update as each member signs up for their event shifts. I've been on the receiving end of Google Doc spread sheets and When is Good forms so I know for sighted people they work, but my main concern is being able to make something like this and set it up. Would you guys happen to know of something that serves a similar function, but has a set up process which is accessible with Jaws? My back up plan is just to make a spreadsheet on my computer, bring it to the first meeting of next semester, and have people sign up in the document itself, then go home afterwards and email it so everyone has access to the final copy. Then they could email me with any changes or substitutions they want to make. I realize this might be the best way for me to do it, and it would certainly ensure that everyone signed up, but if there are any online alternatives like When is Good I would like to consider them. Thanks, -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dandrews at visi.com Mon May 6 01:13:33 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 20:13:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible option to When is Good or a Google Docs Spreadsheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can use a spreadsheet -- but share it via DropBox. That way everybody can access it, and you have access to it as well. Dave >Hi all, > >This may be a long shot, but any information or suggestions would be >appreciated. I recently was given an appointed position in a >fraternity, which involves coordinating events and making sure enough >people are signed up to cover all of them through the semester. I'm >trying to think ahead about it so that when I need to start >coordinating later in the summer I'll possibly have an accessible way >that will work for me and everyone. > >I would like to find a way of creating something that I can send out >to the entire fraternity that will update as each member signs up for >their event shifts. I've been on the receiving end of Google Doc >spread sheets and When is Good forms so I know for sighted people they >work, but my main concern is being able to make something like this >and set it up. Would you guys happen to know of something that serves >a similar function, but has a set up process which is accessible with >Jaws? > >My back up plan is just to make a spreadsheet on my computer, bring it >to the first meeting of next semester, and have people sign up in the >document itself, then go home afterwards and email it so everyone has >access to the final copy. Then they could email me with any changes >or substitutions they want to make. I realize this might be the best >way for me to do it, and it would certainly ensure that everyone >signed up, but if there are any online alternatives like When is Good >I would like to consider them. > >Thanks, > >-- >Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 6 02:26:14 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 22:26:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible option to When is Good or a Google Docs Spreadsheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Chris, I took a look at Doodle, but it looks like it can only work with one group event at a time, not several. Is this correct, or did I just miss something? David: I'm keeping that in my mind as a backup plan, because the last time I did something like that for a group project we had to keep sending out new links because the ond ones wouldn't work after they were used once. I'm not sure if that was a weird fluke or what, but especially since I think most of the girls aren't account holders on dropbox, at least for now I don't know if I want to rely upon that method in case it doesn't work again. I may just end up bringing my laptop with a pre-made spreadsheet to a meeting and get people before or after, then email the available times to any people who don't show and email out the final copy later. This way since it's not a google doc any changes would have to go through me, and they won't just be swapped out on the internet. This will ensure I can record who goes to which event propperly. On 5/5/13, David Andrews wrote: > You can use a spreadsheet -- but share it via DropBox. That way > everybody can access it, and you have access to it as well. > > Dave > > >>Hi all, >> >>This may be a long shot, but any information or suggestions would be >>appreciated. I recently was given an appointed position in a >>fraternity, which involves coordinating events and making sure enough >>people are signed up to cover all of them through the semester. I'm >>trying to think ahead about it so that when I need to start >>coordinating later in the summer I'll possibly have an accessible way >>that will work for me and everyone. >> >>I would like to find a way of creating something that I can send out >>to the entire fraternity that will update as each member signs up for >>their event shifts. I've been on the receiving end of Google Doc >>spread sheets and When is Good forms so I know for sighted people they >>work, but my main concern is being able to make something like this >>and set it up. Would you guys happen to know of something that serves >>a similar function, but has a set up process which is accessible with >>Jaws? >> >>My back up plan is just to make a spreadsheet on my computer, bring it >>to the first meeting of next semester, and have people sign up in the >>document itself, then go home afterwards and email it so everyone has >>access to the final copy. Then they could email me with any changes >>or substitutions they want to make. I realize this might be the best >>way for me to do it, and it would certainly ensure that everyone >>signed up, but if there are any online alternatives like When is Good >>I would like to consider them. >> >>Thanks, >> >>-- >>Kaiti > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon May 6 14:55:33 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 10:55:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible option to When is Good or a Google Docs Spreadsheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <-7412074558441883471@unknownmsgid> You can't make several polls on Doodle at one time, but if you make a separate poll for each event and send the invitation email to the same people, that should work. If you would like, you can call me on the phone or on Skype and we can try to make a sample poll. Just email me off-list if you would like to do that. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 5, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > Chris, I took a look at Doodle, but it looks like it can only work > with one group event at a time, not several. Is this correct, or did > I just miss something? > > David: I'm keeping that in my mind as a backup plan, because the last > time I did something like that for a group project we had to keep > sending out new links because the ond ones wouldn't work after they > were used once. I'm not sure if that was a weird fluke or what, but > especially since I think most of the girls aren't account holders on > dropbox, at least for now I don't know if I want to rely upon that > method in case it doesn't work again. > > I may just end up bringing my laptop with a pre-made spreadsheet to a > meeting and get people before or after, then email the available times > to any people who don't show and email out the final copy later. This > way since it's not a google doc any changes would have to go through > me, and they won't just be swapped out on the internet. This will > ensure I can record who goes to which event propperly. > > On 5/5/13, David Andrews wrote: >> You can use a spreadsheet -- but share it via DropBox. That way >> everybody can access it, and you have access to it as well. >> >> Dave >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> This may be a long shot, but any information or suggestions would be >>> appreciated. I recently was given an appointed position in a >>> fraternity, which involves coordinating events and making sure enough >>> people are signed up to cover all of them through the semester. I'm >>> trying to think ahead about it so that when I need to start >>> coordinating later in the summer I'll possibly have an accessible way >>> that will work for me and everyone. >>> >>> I would like to find a way of creating something that I can send out >>> to the entire fraternity that will update as each member signs up for >>> their event shifts. I've been on the receiving end of Google Doc >>> spread sheets and When is Good forms so I know for sighted people they >>> work, but my main concern is being able to make something like this >>> and set it up. Would you guys happen to know of something that serves >>> a similar function, but has a set up process which is accessible with >>> Jaws? >>> >>> My back up plan is just to make a spreadsheet on my computer, bring it >>> to the first meeting of next semester, and have people sign up in the >>> document itself, then go home afterwards and email it so everyone has >>> access to the final copy. Then they could email me with any changes >>> or substitutions they want to make. I realize this might be the best >>> way for me to do it, and it would certainly ensure that everyone >>> signed up, but if there are any online alternatives like When is Good >>> I would like to consider them. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 6 16:35:23 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 12:35:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible option to When is Good or a Google Docs Spreadsheet In-Reply-To: <-7412074558441883471@unknownmsgid> References: <-7412074558441883471@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: That's what I thought; I need something that can span an entire semester because not all people will sign up for the same event. I need something that can list all the events so people can choose the times and dates that work best for them. I'll keep Doodle in mind for any isolated events that come up though, because it does look like it would be very useful for that. On 5/6/13, christopher nusbaum wrote: > You can't make several polls on Doodle at one time, but if you make a > separate poll for each event and send the invitation email to the same > people, that should work. If you would like, you can call me on the > phone or on Skype and we can try to make a sample poll. Just email me > off-list if you would like to do that. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 5, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Kaiti Shelton > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Chris, I took a look at Doodle, but it looks like it can only work >> with one group event at a time, not several. Is this correct, or did >> I just miss something? >> >> David: I'm keeping that in my mind as a backup plan, because the last >> time I did something like that for a group project we had to keep >> sending out new links because the ond ones wouldn't work after they >> were used once. I'm not sure if that was a weird fluke or what, but >> especially since I think most of the girls aren't account holders on >> dropbox, at least for now I don't know if I want to rely upon that >> method in case it doesn't work again. >> >> I may just end up bringing my laptop with a pre-made spreadsheet to a >> meeting and get people before or after, then email the available times >> to any people who don't show and email out the final copy later. This >> way since it's not a google doc any changes would have to go through >> me, and they won't just be swapped out on the internet. This will >> ensure I can record who goes to which event propperly. >> >> On 5/5/13, David Andrews wrote: >>> You can use a spreadsheet -- but share it via DropBox. That way >>> everybody can access it, and you have access to it as well. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> This may be a long shot, but any information or suggestions would be >>>> appreciated. I recently was given an appointed position in a >>>> fraternity, which involves coordinating events and making sure enough >>>> people are signed up to cover all of them through the semester. I'm >>>> trying to think ahead about it so that when I need to start >>>> coordinating later in the summer I'll possibly have an accessible way >>>> that will work for me and everyone. >>>> >>>> I would like to find a way of creating something that I can send out >>>> to the entire fraternity that will update as each member signs up for >>>> their event shifts. I've been on the receiving end of Google Doc >>>> spread sheets and When is Good forms so I know for sighted people they >>>> work, but my main concern is being able to make something like this >>>> and set it up. Would you guys happen to know of something that serves >>>> a similar function, but has a set up process which is accessible with >>>> Jaws? >>>> >>>> My back up plan is just to make a spreadsheet on my computer, bring it >>>> to the first meeting of next semester, and have people sign up in the >>>> document itself, then go home afterwards and email it so everyone has >>>> access to the final copy. Then they could email me with any changes >>>> or substitutions they want to make. I realize this might be the best >>>> way for me to do it, and it would certainly ensure that everyone >>>> signed up, but if there are any online alternatives like When is Good >>>> I would like to consider them. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From jsoro620 at gmail.com Mon May 6 22:20:25 2013 From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 18:20:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] youth writing contest: Mitali Perkins Message-ID: <012901ce4aa7$e88afde0$b9a0f9a0$@gmail.com> http://www.mitaliperkins.com/contests.html Do you love to weave words together? Were you and/or one or both of your birth parents born in another country? Do you live in the United States or Canada now? Are you 13-19 years old? If you answered yes to ALL of the questions above, YOU qualify to enter the 2013 Fire Escape Writing Contests! Submit an original, unpublished poem or piece of prose (fiction or non-fiction) that reflects some of the joys and struggles of growing up between two cultures in America. Mitali's Fire Escape will only consider one poem and one piece of short fiction per person, so send your best work. Contests Poetry (only one, so pick your best!) Short Fiction (up to 1000 words) Prizes Winner in each category: $50 How to submit an entry Paste your poem or story into an e-mail message and send it to contests - at - mitaliperkins.com. I will not open attachments. Proofread thoroughly and keep your presentation simple. Entries with spelling, grammar or punctuation errors and funky characters/fonts may be disqualified without notice. Do not include any clip art, images, or photos with your entry. Words only, please. Fiction longer than 1000 words will not be considered. Include your name, age, and e-mail address in your e-mail. Also include your countr(ies) of origin. You and/or ONE of your birth parents must have been born outside North America. If you were born in Puerto Rico and are now living in one of the states or Canadian provinces, you qualify. Current U.S. or Canadian residents only please, and previous winners are not eligible. To qualify, your entry must be received between September 15, 2012 and June 1, 2013. REPEAT: You must be an immigrant or internationally adopted teen (or a teen with one immigrant parent) currently living in the United States or Canada. NOTE: Failure to follow all of the contest guidelines will disqualify your entry. Winning Poems and Stories will be published on the Fire Escape. Winners will be notified by August 30th. If you do not hear from us by September 15, 2013, you can assume that your entry was NOT a winner. Prizes must be claimed by September 30, 2013. Please note that editorial or any other personal comments will not be provided for contest submissions. The Fire Escape reserves the right to award no prizes if no entry meets the judge's standards. The Fire Escape seeks the following permissions from young authors: permission to publish your work on the web site, and permission to include your work in online archives after publication. Authors retain the copyright to their work. Once selected, winners must send their school information and a mailing address so that the Fire Escape can validate the entry and send the prize. Read the Fire Escape's privacy policy for more information. From jsoro620 at gmail.com Mon May 6 23:31:56 2013 From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 19:31:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Article Roundup: The Art of Salary Negotiation Message-ID: <016f01ce4ab1$e6325c50$b29714f0$@gmail.com> How do you get paid what you're worth? Good resumes, cover letters, and excellent interview skills will go a long way in securing the job you want, but the job is only as good as the dollar attached to it. The point is completely independent of happiness. That's for another day, but compensation has plenty of emotional significance on those days when you are less than enthused with your occupation. The one point I would emphasize before the articles is this: Look at your salary as part of a total compensation package. Your net salary, after taxes, may not be your magic number, but maybe the employer makes up for it with a generous vacation package, subsidized commuting, paid meals, or other perks. Read more: http://joeorozco.com/blog_the_art_of_salary_negotiation From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 7 07:21:37 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 02:21:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] NLS Announces Braille Summit Message-ID: > >NLS Braille Summit to be Held at Perkins > > > >NLS is inviting participation in the Braille >Summit at Perkins School for the Blind in >Watertown, Massachusetts, June 19−21, 2013, to >help determine the best ways for libraries to >promote and support braille literacy. The >conference will bring together librarians, >braille literacy professionals, braille readers, and other stakeholders. > > > >Braille is the only true form of literacy for >people who are blind. It increases access to >education, allows for fuller participation in >society, and drastically increases the odds of >employment. Yet studies suggest that less than >10 percent of people who are legally blind in >the United States can read braille, and many >children who are blind have no opportunity to >learn it. As leading providers of braille >reading materials, libraries are poised to play a key role in the fight to > >reverse this trend. NLS is committed to >increasing braille literacy as part of its strategic plan. > > > >The conference will allow participants to gather >lessons learned from across America and around >the world; assess the present state of braille >literacy, technology, and access; and make >recommendations that will shape braille programs >and priorities for the future of the NLS network of cooperating libraries. > > > >The conference will cover five major themes: >Braille Readers, Library Selection and >Collection Development, Braille Production, >Braille Technology, and Promoting Braille >Literacy and Awareness. Participants will have >the opportunity to listen to expert speakers in >each subject area and then engage in facilitated >discussions with their peers, during which they >will identify strategic issues and recommend >solutions for implementation. We hope that you >will join us to lend your own knowledge and experience. > > > >The Crowne Plaza Boston-Newton has been selected >as the host hotel and is offering a rate of $159 >per night. Attendees are responsible for >handling their own lodging and transportation >expenses. NLS will provide breakfast and lunch, >as well as transportation from the host hotel to the conference facility. > > > >See NLS Home page for registration form and conference information > >(http://www.loc.gov/nls/conferences/braillesummit/index.html). > > > >Please note that attendance is limited and >registration will be closed when capacity is reached. > > > >For more information contact: Judith Dixon > >Consumer Relations Officer -- jdix at loc.gov > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >BANA-Announce mailing list >BANA-Announce at brailleauthority.org >http://www.brailleauthority.org/mailman/listinfo/bana-announce From trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com Tue May 7 21:23:28 2013 From: trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com (Winona Brackett) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 17:23:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Descriptive videos Message-ID: Hi , I am doing a project for an English assignment and my teacher wants us to watch a movie and analyze it. (Pick out the different archetypes such as hero; clown; wise old man; and etc.) I found a link about descriptive videos. https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/fr/fr31/4/fr310412.htm Where can I find descriptive videos? Does the National Library Service (NLS) carry them? Thanks, Winona From samnelson1 at verizon.net Tue May 7 21:37:26 2013 From: samnelson1 at verizon.net (Sam Nelson) Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 16:37:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Descriptive videos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01ce4b6b$122e9670$368bc350$@verizon.net> Hi Winona, First of all, your English assignment sounds very interesting. Archetypes and Jungian psychology in general is so fascinating. I've read different stories from Women who Run with the Wolves and it's so complex and helpful in sorting out issues in people's lives. Here are some resources I've found. http://seenfromtheheart.blogspot.com/2009/11/free-descriptive-movies-in-mp3. html http://www.acb.org/adp/movies.html I hope this is helpful. Let us know how your project goes! Sam -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Winona Brackett Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 4:23 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Cc: blindtlk at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Descriptive videos Hi , I am doing a project for an English assignment and my teacher wants us to watch a movie and analyze it. (Pick out the different archetypes such as hero; clown; wise old man; and etc.) I found a link about descriptive videos. https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/fr/fr31/4/fr310412.htm Where can I find descriptive videos? Does the National Library Service (NLS) carry them? Thanks, Winona _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40verizon.net From juanitatighan at gmail.com Tue May 7 22:16:18 2013 From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 18:16:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Descriptive videos In-Reply-To: <000f01ce4b6b$122e9670$368bc350$@verizon.net> References: <000f01ce4b6b$122e9670$368bc350$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <37EA1866-92E5-4DF5-8011-2D08E09C4961@gmail.com> There os also www.solo-dx.com You can buy a descriptive track to synchronize with the movie. I got The Hunger Games descriptive track as apart of a free trial, and I was able to watch that movie. It synced perfectly, as long as I followed the instructions. Jane On May 7, 2013, at 5:37 PM, "Sam Nelson" wrote: > Hi Winona, > First of all, your English assignment sounds very interesting. Archetypes > and Jungian psychology in general is so fascinating. I've read different > stories from Women who Run with the Wolves and it's so complex and helpful > in sorting out issues in people's lives. > Here are some resources I've found. > > http://seenfromtheheart.blogspot.com/2009/11/free-descriptive-movies-in-mp3. > html > http://www.acb.org/adp/movies.html > I hope this is helpful. Let us know how your project goes! > Sam > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Winona Brackett > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 4:23 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindtlk at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Descriptive videos > > Hi , > > I am doing a project for an English assignment and my teacher wants us to > watch a movie and analyze it. (Pick out the different archetypes such as > hero; clown; wise old man; and etc.) > > I found a link about descriptive videos. > > https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/fr/fr31/4/fr310412.htm > > Where can I find descriptive videos? Does the National Library Service > (NLS) carry them? > > Thanks, > Winona > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Tue May 7 22:36:01 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 17:36:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Descriptive videos Message-ID: <518981ef.46f43a0a.708e.ffff9975@mx.google.com> Winona, it really depends on what movie you wanna analyze. Some movies are extremely visual, and the descriptions are really necessary. But I've found that I've been able to watch a good many movies in nondescriptive format and have quite enjoyed them. The ones with a lot of diagloue are basically like audiobooks read by multiple people with sound effects. My point is, and I know I'll get flack for this, that depending on the movie, you may not need a descriptive video. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jane wrote: Hi Winona, First of all, your English assignment sounds very interesting. Archetypes and Jungian psychology in general is so fascinating. I've read different stories from Women who Run with the Wolves and it's so complex and helpful in sorting out issues in people's lives. Here are some resources I've found. http://seenfromtheheart.blogspot.com/2009/11/free-descriptive-mov ies-in-mp3. html http://www.acb.org/adp/movies.html I hope this is helpful. Let us know how your project goes! Sam -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Winona Brackett Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 4:23 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Cc: blindtlk at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Descriptive videos Hi , I am doing a project for an English assignment and my teacher wants us to watch a movie and analyze it. (Pick out the different archetypes such as hero; clown; wise old man; and etc.) I found a link about descriptive videos. https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/fr/fr31/4/fr310412.htm Where can I find descriptive videos? Does the National Library Service (NLS) carry them? Thanks, Winona _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40 verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue May 7 22:43:54 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 18:43:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Descriptive videos In-Reply-To: <518981ef.46f43a0a.708e.ffff9975@mx.google.com> References: <518981ef.46f43a0a.708e.ffff9975@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Winona, I agree with Sophie; a lot of movies have dialog that is so descriptive that there isn't really anything missed by not having access to the video on-screen. Also, if I've watched a movie before, and I've found this to be true for other blind people as well, I tend to remember what is going on even in places where the dialog isn't very descriptive. E.G. I just watched a pretty new movie that to my knowledge hasn't been out long enough to be described yet with my family. The first time I had to ask a few times for clarification on what was happening, but when my dad watched it again the next night, (yes apparently he liked it that much), I knew exactly what was happening based on the cues from the soundtrack; I even was able to remember a subtitled part spoken in German that I needed someone to read to me earlier. That might be an option for you. I don't know the requirements of your project or if you've been assigned to watch a specific movie, but if possible you could always pick a movie that fits the assignment and you know well enough to either get by just listening to dialog or have the ability to describe even visual parts that aren't explained by talking because you know it so well. On 5/7/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Winona, it really depends on what movie you wanna analyze. Some > movies are extremely visual, and the descriptions are really > necessary. But I've found that I've been able to watch a good > many movies in nondescriptive format and have quite enjoyed them. > The ones with a lot of diagloue are basically like audiobooks > read by multiple people with sound effects. My point is, and I > know I'll get flack for this, that depending on the movie, you > may not need a descriptive video. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jane To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 7 May 2013 18:16:18 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Descriptive videos > > There os also > > www.solo-dx.com > > You can buy a descriptive track to synchronize with the movie. I > got The Hunger Games descriptive track as apart of a free trial, > and I was able to watch that movie. It synced perfectly, as long > as I followed the instructions. > > Jane > > > > > On May 7, 2013, at 5:37 PM, "Sam Nelson" > wrote: > > Hi Winona, > First of all, your English assignment sounds very interesting. > Archetypes > and Jungian psychology in general is so fascinating. I've read > different > stories from Women who Run with the Wolves and it's so complex > and helpful > in sorting out issues in people's lives. > Here are some resources I've found. > > > http://seenfromtheheart.blogspot.com/2009/11/free-descriptive-mov > ies-in-mp3. > html > http://www.acb.org/adp/movies.html > I hope this is helpful. Let us know how your project goes! > Sam > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Winona Brackett > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 4:23 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindtlk at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Descriptive videos > > Hi , > > I am doing a project for an English assignment and my teacher > wants us to > watch a movie and analyze it. (Pick out the different archetypes > such as > hero; clown; wise old man; and etc.) > > I found a link about descriptive videos. > > https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/fr/fr31/4/fr310412.htm > > Where can I find descriptive videos? Does the National Library > Service > (NLS) carry them? > > Thanks, > Winona > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40 > verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From jeffc4 at lavabit.com Wed May 8 00:40:13 2013 From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com (Jeff Crouch) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 20:40:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] history descriptive movies Message-ID: <002901ce4b84$9b5861b0$d2092510$@com> Hi all, I too am looking for something much like the other person who was posting in the topic of descriptive videos, accept I need to find the movies, one or the other would be fine, tora tora tora, or pearl harbor. thanks Jeff Crouch ham radio callsign- KD8QIQ internet radio station- http://wnntech.com twitter- kd8qiq From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Wed May 8 06:25:09 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 02:25:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] English Composition 2, summer class Message-ID: Hi all, I’m going to be taking English Composition 2 this summer semester, but I don’t have my text book yet!. I already purchased the print book version one month ago, and I gave it to my Disability adviser in order for her to order it from the Publisher, but she didn’t inform me yet, if she has it or not. Just to let you know, I have a lot of problems with my disability adviser. It’s actually a long story,but if you want to know, just let me know? But now I’m actually worried about my book, since my summer class starts on Monday, May 13, and I don’t have it yet!. By the way, the name of the book is “Everything’s an Argument” 6th edition. I actually went to Book share today, and I serch for it, but they only have the 5th edition of it. But I actually need the 6th edition because that’s the book that my professor told me, since we are going to do specific reading assignments from that specific book, not the 5th edition. I just would like to ask you, do you guys know where I can get the book for free; instead of getting it from book share since they only have the 5th edition? I just would like to know. Thanks so much! and God bless! Sincerelly, Helga From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed May 8 06:50:42 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 00:50:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] English Composition 2, summer class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The fifth edition would be something, at least, while you're waiting for your copy. You might try BARD or learning ally, though memberships there take time to set up and, while BARd is free, learning ally is not. On 5/8/13, Helga wrote: > Hi all, > I’m going to be taking English Composition 2 this summer semester, but I > don’t have my text book yet!. I already purchased the print book version one > month ago, and I gave it to my Disability adviser in order for her to order > it from the Publisher, but she didn’t inform me yet, if she has it or not. > Just to let you know, I have a lot of problems with my disability adviser. > It’s actually a long story,but if you want to know, just let me know? But > now I’m actually worried about my book, since my summer class starts on > Monday, May 13, and I don’t have it yet!. By the way, the name of the book > is “Everything’s an Argument” 6th edition. I actually went to Book share > today, and I serch for it, but they only have the 5th edition of it. But I > actually need the 6th edition because that’s the book that my professor told > me, since we are going to do specific reading assignments from that specific > book, not the 5th edition. I just would like to ask you, do you guys know > where I can get the book for free; instead of getting it from book share > since they only have the 5th edition? I just would like to know. Thanks so > much! and God bless! > > Sincerelly, Helga > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Wed May 8 07:17:29 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 03:17:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] English Composition 2, summer class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey! Kirt, I actually tried BARD today, but they didn't have the book. Does book share has a Braille format of the book, Everything's an Argument 5th edition? I just would like to know. By the way, thanks for the suggestion. Thanks and God bless! :) -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 2:50 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] English Composition 2, summer class The fifth edition would be something, at least, while you're waiting for your copy. You might try BARD or learning ally, though memberships there take time to set up and, while BARd is free, learning ally is not. On 5/8/13, Helga wrote: > Hi all, > I’m going to be taking English Composition 2 this summer semester, but I > don’t have my text book yet!. I already purchased the print book version > one > month ago, and I gave it to my Disability adviser in order for her to > order > it from the Publisher, but she didn’t inform me yet, if she has it or not. > Just to let you know, I have a lot of problems with my disability adviser. > It’s actually a long story,but if you want to know, just let me know? But > now I’m actually worried about my book, since my summer class starts on > Monday, May 13, and I don’t have it yet!. By the way, the name of the book > is “Everything’s an Argument” 6th edition. I actually went to Book share > today, and I serch for it, but they only have the 5th edition of it. But I > actually need the 6th edition because that’s the book that my professor > told > me, since we are going to do specific reading assignments from that > specific > book, not the 5th edition. I just would like to ask you, do you guys know > where I can get the book for free; instead of getting it from book share > since they only have the 5th edition? I just would like to know. Thanks so > much! and God bless! > > Sincerelly, Helga > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Wed May 8 10:09:38 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 06:09:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners Message-ID: Hi, just want to say congratulations to those who have won scholarships in the NFB's 2013 scholarship program. It is no doubt that you'll go far in this world, and we can only hope that you will do great things to better the path for us blind individuals. Thanks, Josh Sent from my iPhone From kathrynwebster at me.com Wed May 8 12:11:31 2013 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kathryn Webster) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 08:11:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you :) what a kind and thoughtful email. Best, Kathryn Webster Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: > Hi, just want to say congratulations to those who have won scholarships in the NFB's 2013 scholarship program. It is no doubt that you'll go far in this world, and we can only hope that you will do great things to better the path for us blind individuals. > Thanks, > Josh > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Wed May 8 12:17:15 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 08:17:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah I try my best, :-) Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 8:11 AM, Kathryn Webster wrote: > Thank you :) what a kind and thoughtful email. > Best, > Kathryn Webster > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 8, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: > >> Hi, just want to say congratulations to those who have won scholarships in the NFB's 2013 scholarship program. It is no doubt that you'll go far in this world, and we can only hope that you will do great things to better the path for us blind individuals. >> Thanks, >> Josh >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From kobycox at gmail.com Wed May 8 12:31:26 2013 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 07:31:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8AB7FC19-03DF-485B-9A0A-D8A09876B6D6@gmail.com> Kathryn, Did you win a scholar ship? Koby Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 7:11 AM, Kathryn Webster wrote: > Thank you :) what a kind and thoughtful email. > Best, > Kathryn Webster > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 8, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: > >> Hi, just want to say congratulations to those who have won scholarships in the NFB's 2013 scholarship program. It is no doubt that you'll go far in this world, and we can only hope that you will do great things to better the path for us blind individuals. >> Thanks, >> Josh >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed May 8 13:43:24 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 09:43:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: <8AB7FC19-03DF-485B-9A0A-D8A09876B6D6@gmail.com> References: <8AB7FC19-03DF-485B-9A0A-D8A09876B6D6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Josh. As Kathryn said, this really was thoughtful. :) On 5/8/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Kathryn, > Did you win a scholar ship? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 8, 2013, at 7:11 AM, Kathryn Webster wrote: > >> Thank you :) what a kind and thoughtful email. >> Best, >> Kathryn Webster >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 8, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: >> >>> Hi, just want to say congratulations to those who have won scholarships >>> in the NFB's 2013 scholarship program. It is no doubt that you'll go far >>> in this world, and we can only hope that you will do great things to >>> better the path for us blind individuals. >>> Thanks, >>> Josh >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From kathrynwebster at me.com Wed May 8 13:44:36 2013 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kathryn Webster) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 09:44:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: <8AB7FC19-03DF-485B-9A0A-D8A09876B6D6@gmail.com> References: <8AB7FC19-03DF-485B-9A0A-D8A09876B6D6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes I did :) Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 8:31 AM, Koby Cox wrote: > Kathryn, > Did you win a scholar ship? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 8, 2013, at 7:11 AM, Kathryn Webster wrote: > >> Thank you :) what a kind and thoughtful email. >> Best, >> Kathryn Webster >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 8, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: >> >>> Hi, just want to say congratulations to those who have won scholarships in the NFB's 2013 scholarship program. It is no doubt that you'll go far in this world, and we can only hope that you will do great things to better the path for us blind individuals. >>> Thanks, >>> Josh >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed May 8 13:46:36 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 09:46:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] English Composition 2, summer class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Helga, The fifth edition should be close enough to the sixth edition, as most of the time new editions only change minor words or phrases to make things more clear. Unless the edition changed the way the book was organized it shouldn't bee too different. Would it be possible for you to get in touch with your instructor and ask if he/she would be okay with you using the previous edition? If the book hasn't changed much between the fifth and sixth editions they should be okay with it and you would be fine to download and use the fifth edition from Bookshare instead. On 5/8/13, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hey! Kirt, I actually tried BARD today, but they didn't have the book. Does > > book share has a Braille format of the book, Everything's an Argument 5th > edition? I just would like to know. By the way, thanks for the suggestion. > Thanks and God bless! :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 2:50 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] English Composition 2, summer class > > The fifth edition would be something, at least, while you're waiting > for your copy. You might try BARD or learning ally, though > memberships there take time to set up and, while BARd is free, > learning ally is not. > > On 5/8/13, Helga wrote: >> Hi all, >> I’m going to be taking English Composition 2 this summer semester, but I >> don’t have my text book yet!. I already purchased the print book version >> one >> month ago, and I gave it to my Disability adviser in order for her to >> order >> it from the Publisher, but she didn’t inform me yet, if she has it or >> not. >> Just to let you know, I have a lot of problems with my disability >> adviser. >> It’s actually a long story,but if you want to know, just let me know? But >> now I’m actually worried about my book, since my summer class starts on >> Monday, May 13, and I don’t have it yet!. By the way, the name of the >> book >> is “Everything’s an Argument” 6th edition. I actually went to Book share >> today, and I serch for it, but they only have the 5th edition of it. But >> I >> actually need the 6th edition because that’s the book that my professor >> told >> me, since we are going to do specific reading assignments from that >> specific >> book, not the 5th edition. I just would like to ask you, do you guys know >> where I can get the book for free; instead of getting it from book share >> since they only have the 5th edition? I just would like to know. Thanks >> so >> much! and God bless! >> >> Sincerelly, Helga >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed May 8 14:13:40 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 10:13:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: <8AB7FC19-03DF-485B-9A0A-D8A09876B6D6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1227273326360436086@unknownmsgid> Kathryn, that is awesome!!!!! Congratulations! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 9:44 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Thank you, Josh. As Kathryn said, this really was thoughtful. :) > > > On 5/8/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> Kathryn, >> Did you win a scholar ship? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 8, 2013, at 7:11 AM, Kathryn Webster wrote: >> >>> Thank you :) what a kind and thoughtful email. >>> Best, >>> Kathryn Webster >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 8, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, just want to say congratulations to those who have won scholarships >>>> in the NFB's 2013 scholarship program. It is no doubt that you'll go far >>>> in this world, and we can only hope that you will do great things to >>>> better the path for us blind individuals. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From kobycox at gmail.com Wed May 8 14:15:51 2013 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 09:15:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: <8AB7FC19-03DF-485B-9A0A-D8A09876B6D6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <08860A10-E659-42EF-9081-8A0B7864D2EA@gmail.com> Can you email me off list? Mi email address Is: kobycox at gmail.com. Koby Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Kathryn Webster wrote: > Yes I did :) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 8, 2013, at 8:31 AM, Koby Cox wrote: > >> Kathryn, >> Did you win a scholar ship? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 8, 2013, at 7:11 AM, Kathryn Webster wrote: >> >>> Thank you :) what a kind and thoughtful email. >>> Best, >>> Kathryn Webster >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 8, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, just want to say congratulations to those who have won scholarships in the NFB's 2013 scholarship program. It is no doubt that you'll go far in this world, and we can only hope that you will do great things to better the path for us blind individuals. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Wed May 8 14:36:27 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 10:36:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: <8AB7FC19-03DF-485B-9A0A-D8A09876B6D6@gmail.com> Message-ID: No problem, just thought I would try to put that out there, :-) Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 9:43 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Thank you, Josh. As Kathryn said, this really was thoughtful. :) > > > On 5/8/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> Kathryn, >> Did you win a scholar ship? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 8, 2013, at 7:11 AM, Kathryn Webster wrote: >> >>> Thank you :) what a kind and thoughtful email. >>> Best, >>> Kathryn Webster >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 8, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, just want to say congratulations to those who have won scholarships >>>> in the NFB's 2013 scholarship program. It is no doubt that you'll go far >>>> in this world, and we can only hope that you will do great things to >>>> better the path for us blind individuals. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Wed May 8 14:45:21 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 07:45:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners Message-ID: I thought the official press has not been released yet. I am sure this will be any time soon. Congratulations to all the finalists!! From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com Wed May 8 14:46:46 2013 From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (Ryan Bishop) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 07:46:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: <8AB7FC19-03DF-485B-9A0A-D8A09876B6D6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes congratulations everyone. Fantastic job! Sent from my iPhone On 08/05/2013, at 7:36, Josh Gregory wrote: > No problem, just thought I would try to put that out there, :-) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 8, 2013, at 9:43 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > >> Thank you, Josh. As Kathryn said, this really was thoughtful. :) >> >> >> On 5/8/13, Koby Cox wrote: >>> Kathryn, >>> Did you win a scholar ship? >>> Koby >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 8, 2013, at 7:11 AM, Kathryn Webster wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you :) what a kind and thoughtful email. >>>> Best, >>>> Kathryn Webster >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 8, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, just want to say congratulations to those who have won scholarships >>>>> in the NFB's 2013 scholarship program. It is no doubt that you'll go far >>>>> in this world, and we can only hope that you will do great things to >>>>> better the path for us blind individuals. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Josh >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed May 8 14:50:29 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 10:50:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: <518a6540.45a8ec0a.7882.ffffee83SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <518a6540.45a8ec0a.7882.ffffee83SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Miso, I guess it goes out on email before it goes on the web. I tried googling for it earlier and didn't see the page... weird. Perhaps they consider those on the list to be more in tune with the federation workings and want to let them know first or something. Anyway, again congrats to all, and I look forward to meeting a bunch of you at convention. :) On 5/8/13, Miso wrote: > I thought the official press has not been released yet. I am sure this will > be any time soon. Congratulations to all the finalists!! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From kaybaycar at gmail.com Wed May 8 16:23:32 2013 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 11:23:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: <518a6540.45a8ec0a.7882.ffffee83SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Josh and all, Thank you so much! It is such an honor to be a scholarship winner again. I couldn't believe it! I am looking forward to convention and hope to see many of you there. On 5/8/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Miso, > > I guess it goes out on email before it goes on the web. I tried > googling for it earlier and didn't see the page... weird. Perhaps > they consider those on the list to be more in tune with the federation > workings and want to let them know first or something. > > Anyway, again congrats to all, and I look forward to meeting a bunch > of you at convention. :) > > On 5/8/13, Miso wrote: >> I thought the official press has not been released yet. I am sure this >> will >> be any time soon. Congratulations to all the finalists!! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed May 8 16:21:32 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 12:21:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating Folders in Pages for the iPad Message-ID: <6015422132917922029@unknownmsgid> Hi everyone, I have recently gotten an iPad 4 to be used for school. The school system has already loaded this iPad with several apps which I am currently learning to use, including the Pages word-processing app. I'm currently able to create documents in Pages without any difficulty. However, neither I nor my TVI can find anything in the app to create folders. So, how do I create folders in Pages? After a folder is created, how do I move documents into it? Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone From sgermano at asu.edu Wed May 8 16:40:48 2013 From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 09:40:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating Folders in Pages for the iPad In-Reply-To: <6015422132917922029@unknownmsgid> References: <6015422132917922029@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: As far as i know there is no ability for a folder structure on the ipad. It does not have a directory structure like the hard drive of pc or mac On Wednesday, May 8, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Hi everyone, I have recently gotten an iPad 4 to be used for school. > The school system has already loaded this iPad with several apps which > I am currently learning to use, including the Pages word-processing > app. I'm currently able to create documents in Pages without any > difficulty. However, neither I nor my TVI can find anything in the app > to create folders. So, how do I create folders in Pages? After a > folder is created, how do I move documents into it? Any help with > these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed May 8 16:45:15 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 10:45:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] English Composition 2, summer class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Every book on bookshare, to my kowledge, can be downloaded in either brf format or DAISY. On 5/8/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Helga, > > The fifth edition should be close enough to the sixth edition, as most > of the time new editions only change minor words or phrases to make > things more clear. Unless the edition changed the way the book was > organized it shouldn't bee too different. Would it be possible for > you to get in touch with your instructor and ask if he/she would be > okay with you using the previous edition? If the book hasn't changed > much between the fifth and sixth editions they should be okay with it > and you would be fine to download and use the fifth edition from > Bookshare instead. > > On 5/8/13, Helga Schreiber wrote: >> Hey! Kirt, I actually tried BARD today, but they didn't have the book. >> Does >> >> book share has a Braille format of the book, Everything's an Argument 5th >> edition? I just would like to know. By the way, thanks for the >> suggestion. >> Thanks and God bless! :) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kirt Manwaring >> Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 2:50 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] English Composition 2, summer class >> >> The fifth edition would be something, at least, while you're waiting >> for your copy. You might try BARD or learning ally, though >> memberships there take time to set up and, while BARd is free, >> learning ally is not. >> >> On 5/8/13, Helga wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I’m going to be taking English Composition 2 this summer semester, but I >>> don’t have my text book yet!. I already purchased the print book version >>> one >>> month ago, and I gave it to my Disability adviser in order for her to >>> order >>> it from the Publisher, but she didn’t inform me yet, if she has it or >>> not. >>> Just to let you know, I have a lot of problems with my disability >>> adviser. >>> It’s actually a long story,but if you want to know, just let me know? >>> But >>> now I’m actually worried about my book, since my summer class starts on >>> Monday, May 13, and I don’t have it yet!. By the way, the name of the >>> book >>> is “Everything’s an Argument” 6th edition. I actually went to Book share >>> today, and I serch for it, but they only have the 5th edition of it. But >>> I >>> actually need the 6th edition because that’s the book that my professor >>> told >>> me, since we are going to do specific reading assignments from that >>> specific >>> book, not the 5th edition. I just would like to ask you, do you guys >>> know >>> where I can get the book for free; instead of getting it from book share >>> since they only have the 5th edition? I just would like to know. Thanks >>> so >>> much! and God bless! >>> >>> Sincerelly, Helga >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Tue May 7 16:52:38 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 12:52:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: <518a6540.45a8ec0a.7882.ffffee83SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <018101ce4b43$48b708d0$da251a70$@gmail.com> I would like to extend congradulations to my fellow college students. Outstanding. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 12:24 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners Josh and all, Thank you so much! It is such an honor to be a scholarship winner again. I couldn't believe it! I am looking forward to convention and hope to see many of you there. On 5/8/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Miso, > > I guess it goes out on email before it goes on the web. I tried > googling for it earlier and didn't see the page... weird. Perhaps > they consider those on the list to be more in tune with the federation > workings and want to let them know first or something. > > Anyway, again congrats to all, and I look forward to meeting a bunch > of you at convention. :) > > On 5/8/13, Miso wrote: >> I thought the official press has not been released yet. I am sure this >> will >> be any time soon. Congratulations to all the finalists!! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai l.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed May 8 16:50:48 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 12:50:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating Folders in Pages for the iPad In-Reply-To: References: <6015422132917922029@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi Chris, I found this online, but I don't have an IPad to test it out on. Give it a try and see if it works out. Of course these instructions aren't exact since they don't come from a vo-user, but if you've made folders on the home screen before it should be simple enough. Do you have a bunch of Pages documents and don’t like to scroll forever to find them? What if you could create a folder to organize the documents? Using this tip, you can sort and store Pages documents into folders. First, get to the Documents screen. If you are editing a document in Pages, tap the Documents button on the top left to take you to a screen similar to the one seen below. To create a folder, much like creating a folder for apps, tap and hold on a document. The various documents will then begin jiggling like what happens when you tap and hold an app to rearrange the apps on the screen. You will then be able to tap and drag a document onto another document and create and name a folder. Tap on the x and rename the folder. Tap done and voila, a folder has been created. You can then tap and hold folders to drag them into an order you like. http://ipadnotebook.wordpress.com/2012/05/16/pages-how-to-create-folders-to-organize-documents/ On 5/8/13, Suzanne Germano wrote: > As far as i know there is no ability for a folder structure on the ipad. It > does not have a directory structure like the hard drive of pc or mac > > On Wednesday, May 8, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: > >> Hi everyone, I have recently gotten an iPad 4 to be used for school. >> The school system has already loaded this iPad with several apps which >> I am currently learning to use, including the Pages word-processing >> app. I'm currently able to create documents in Pages without any >> difficulty. However, neither I nor my TVI can find anything in the app >> to create folders. So, how do I create folders in Pages? After a >> folder is created, how do I move documents into it? Any help with >> these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From annajee82 at gmail.com Wed May 8 17:40:14 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 12:40:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] English Composition 2, summer class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The publisher is Bedford/St. Martin. Looks like there is one "with readings" and one without. I'm not sure which one you need. I don't know what format you wanted the book in, but you can get it in e-book format and download from the publisher for around 20 dollars. This is usually what I do. Then you could return the print book you have and get your money back, because there doesn't seem to be any reason to have it. I think you should call or go see your DSS person immediately and ask what the situation is. I do not know what it is they were going to do for you, but it is usually better to get books on your own without going through the DSS office. I would recommend going to talk to them right away this week and see what they have done, and tell them exactly what you need and when. If they are not willing to do this, get the book on your own, like I said, you can download it from the publisher's website, or your bookstore at your school may sell the e-book version of this too. Just my thoughts.... Anna On 5/8/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Every book on bookshare, to my kowledge, can be downloaded in either > brf format or DAISY. > > On 5/8/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Helga, >> >> The fifth edition should be close enough to the sixth edition, as most >> of the time new editions only change minor words or phrases to make >> things more clear. Unless the edition changed the way the book was >> organized it shouldn't bee too different. Would it be possible for >> you to get in touch with your instructor and ask if he/she would be >> okay with you using the previous edition? If the book hasn't changed >> much between the fifth and sixth editions they should be okay with it >> and you would be fine to download and use the fifth edition from >> Bookshare instead. >> >> On 5/8/13, Helga Schreiber wrote: >>> Hey! Kirt, I actually tried BARD today, but they didn't have the book. >>> Does >>> >>> book share has a Braille format of the book, Everything's an Argument >>> 5th >>> edition? I just would like to know. By the way, thanks for the >>> suggestion. >>> Thanks and God bless! :) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 2:50 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] English Composition 2, summer class >>> >>> The fifth edition would be something, at least, while you're waiting >>> for your copy. You might try BARD or learning ally, though >>> memberships there take time to set up and, while BARd is free, >>> learning ally is not. >>> >>> On 5/8/13, Helga wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I’m going to be taking English Composition 2 this summer semester, but >>>> I >>>> don’t have my text book yet!. I already purchased the print book >>>> version >>>> one >>>> month ago, and I gave it to my Disability adviser in order for her to >>>> order >>>> it from the Publisher, but she didn’t inform me yet, if she has it or >>>> not. >>>> Just to let you know, I have a lot of problems with my disability >>>> adviser. >>>> It’s actually a long story,but if you want to know, just let me know? >>>> But >>>> now I’m actually worried about my book, since my summer class starts on >>>> Monday, May 13, and I don’t have it yet!. By the way, the name of the >>>> book >>>> is “Everything’s an Argument” 6th edition. I actually went to Book >>>> share >>>> today, and I serch for it, but they only have the 5th edition of it. >>>> But >>>> I >>>> actually need the 6th edition because that’s the book that my professor >>>> told >>>> me, since we are going to do specific reading assignments from that >>>> specific >>>> book, not the 5th edition. I just would like to ask you, do you guys >>>> know >>>> where I can get the book for free; instead of getting it from book >>>> share >>>> since they only have the 5th edition? I just would like to know. Thanks >>>> so >>>> much! and God bless! >>>> >>>> Sincerelly, Helga >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > From annajee82 at gmail.com Wed May 8 17:44:07 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 12:44:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: <018101ce4b43$48b708d0$da251a70$@gmail.com> References: <518a6540.45a8ec0a.7882.ffffee83SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <018101ce4b43$48b708d0$da251a70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, congratulations to all of you. I will hopefully be going to the convention this summer, for the first time, so I am excited to go and hopefully meet some of you. Anna On 5/7/13, justin williams wrote: > I would like to extend congradulations to my fellow college students. > Outstanding. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie > McGinnity > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 12:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners > > Josh and all, > > Thank you so much! It is such an honor to be a scholarship winner > again. I couldn't believe it! I am looking forward to convention and > hope to see many of you there. > > On 5/8/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Miso, >> >> I guess it goes out on email before it goes on the web. I tried >> googling for it earlier and didn't see the page... weird. Perhaps >> they consider those on the list to be more in tune with the federation >> workings and want to let them know first or something. >> >> Anyway, again congrats to all, and I look forward to meeting a bunch >> of you at convention. :) >> >> On 5/8/13, Miso wrote: >>> I thought the official press has not been released yet. I am sure this >>> will >>> be any time soon. Congratulations to all the finalists!! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai > l.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, > Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, > and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Wed May 8 20:35:20 2013 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 13:35:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Pausing audio files when working in other windows Message-ID: Hi, I use Window's 7 with JAWS and am curious if I can pause audio files while I am in another window. For example, I transcribe recordings as part of my job, and it is annoying to alt tab to iTunes. When I do this to catch up typing, I miss what is being said. If there was a quick keystroke that I could do to pause the recording while I am typing in Word, that would be so helpful. Does anyone know if this is possible? Are there music players other than iTunes where this is possible? I tried playing the recordings on my iPhone, and they would start to play but would then stop and I would get a message saying that there was an error and the file could not be viewed. Are there other file types that would work better on iOS devices? These are wave files. Thanks. -- Cindy Bennett Secretary: National Association of Blind Students Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Wed May 8 20:43:45 2013 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 16:43:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Pausing audio files when working in other windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Cindy, Are you using a laptop or desktop at work? A lot of laptops have buttons specific to them which will allow you to play/pause skip forward and backwards. Also, if you have a notetaker, they all play wav files, so that might be an options. You can also try using a victor reader stream. I can't think of keyboard strokes for starting and stopping without having to go to the specific program. I think that iPhones like mp4s... but don't quote me on that since I'm slightly technology illiterate. Mary On 5/8/13, Cindy Bennett wrote: > Hi, > > I use Window's 7 with JAWS and am curious if I can pause audio files > while I am in another window. For example, I transcribe recordings as > part of my job, and it is annoying to alt tab to iTunes. When I do > this to catch up typing, I miss what is being said. If there was a > quick keystroke that I could do to pause the recording while I am > typing in Word, that would be so helpful. Does anyone know if this is > possible? Are there music players other than iTunes where this is > possible? > > I tried playing the recordings on my iPhone, and they would start to > play but would then stop and I would get a message saying that there > was an error and the file could not be viewed. Are there other file > types that would work better on iOS devices? These are wave files. > > Thanks. > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Secretary: National Association of Blind Students > Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington > > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." — Maya Angelou From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed May 8 20:42:17 2013 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 14:42:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Pausing audio files when working in other windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <518AB8A9.1040409@tysdomain.com> Cindy: I personally like winamp--you can set up global hotkeys to do all that for you. Also you can buy media keyboards with a row of buttons (usually at the top), one of which is always play//pause. HTH, On 5/8/2013 2:35 PM, Cindy Bennett wrote: > Hi, > > I use Window's 7 with JAWS and am curious if I can pause audio files > while I am in another window. For example, I transcribe recordings as > part of my job, and it is annoying to alt tab to iTunes. When I do > this to catch up typing, I miss what is being said. If there was a > quick keystroke that I could do to pause the recording while I am > typing in Word, that would be so helpful. Does anyone know if this is > possible? Are there music players other than iTunes where this is > possible? > > I tried playing the recordings on my iPhone, and they would start to > play but would then stop and I would get a message saying that there > was an error and the file could not be viewed. Are there other file > types that would work better on iOS devices? These are wave files. > > Thanks. > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. Sent from my Toaster (tm). From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed May 8 20:59:33 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 16:59:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Pausing audio files when working in other windows In-Reply-To: <518AB8A9.1040409@tysdomain.com> References: <518AB8A9.1040409@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hi, Try Winniamp as Tyler suggested. The hot keys should do the trick for you. If you don't want to install another audio player but have a Victor/BookSense or something, or could get m4a files for your IPhone, those would also be options. On 5/8/13, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > Cindy: > I personally like winamp--you can set up global hotkeys to do all that > for you. Also you can buy media keyboards with a row of buttons (usually > at the top), one of which is always play//pause. > HTH, > On 5/8/2013 2:35 PM, Cindy Bennett wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I use Window's 7 with JAWS and am curious if I can pause audio files >> while I am in another window. For example, I transcribe recordings as >> part of my job, and it is annoying to alt tab to iTunes. When I do >> this to catch up typing, I miss what is being said. If there was a >> quick keystroke that I could do to pause the recording while I am >> typing in Word, that would be so helpful. Does anyone know if this is >> possible? Are there music players other than iTunes where this is >> possible? >> >> I tried playing the recordings on my iPhone, and they would start to >> play but would then stop and I would get a message saying that there >> was an error and the file could not be viewed. Are there other file >> types that would work better on iOS devices? These are wave files. >> >> Thanks. >> > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > Sent from my Toaster (tm). > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From pgradioman at hotmail.com Wed May 8 23:30:05 2013 From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 19:30:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: <518a6540.45a8ec0a.7882.ffffee83SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <018101ce4b43$48b708d0$da251a70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all: I would like to congratulate all of the 2013 NFB Scholarship winners! You all have a bright future ahead of you! You deffinteley deserve this honor! Good luck with your future! Best: Preston Gaylor Sent from my iPod On May 8, 2013, at 1:45 PM, "Anna Givens" wrote: > Yes, congratulations to all of you. I will hopefully be going to the > convention this summer, for the first time, so I am excited to go and > hopefully meet some of you. > > Anna > > On 5/7/13, justin williams wrote: >> I would like to extend congradulations to my fellow college students. >> Outstanding. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie >> McGinnity >> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 12:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners >> >> Josh and all, >> >> Thank you so much! It is such an honor to be a scholarship winner >> again. I couldn't believe it! I am looking forward to convention and >> hope to see many of you there. >> >> On 5/8/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Miso, >>> >>> I guess it goes out on email before it goes on the web. I tried >>> googling for it earlier and didn't see the page... weird. Perhaps >>> they consider those on the list to be more in tune with the federation >>> workings and want to let them know first or something. >>> >>> Anyway, again congrats to all, and I look forward to meeting a bunch >>> of you at convention. :) >>> >>> On 5/8/13, Miso wrote: >>>> I thought the official press has not been released yet. I am sure this >>>> will >>>> be any time soon. Congratulations to all the finalists!! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 9 00:37:01 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 20:37:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners In-Reply-To: References: <518a6540.45a8ec0a.7882.ffffee83SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <018101ce4b43$48b708d0$da251a70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <017101ce4c4d$528258f0$f7870ad0$@gmail.com> Amen! Congratulations to you all!!! Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Preston Gaylor Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 7:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners Hi all: I would like to congratulate all of the 2013 NFB Scholarship winners! You all have a bright future ahead of you! You deffinteley deserve this honor! Good luck with your future! Best: Preston Gaylor Sent from my iPod On May 8, 2013, at 1:45 PM, "Anna Givens" wrote: > Yes, congratulations to all of you. I will hopefully be going to the > convention this summer, for the first time, so I am excited to go and > hopefully meet some of you. > > Anna > > On 5/7/13, justin williams wrote: >> I would like to extend congradulations to my fellow college students. >> Outstanding. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie >> McGinnity >> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 12:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Congratulations to scholarship winners >> >> Josh and all, >> >> Thank you so much! It is such an honor to be a scholarship winner >> again. I couldn't believe it! I am looking forward to convention >> and hope to see many of you there. >> >> On 5/8/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Miso, >>> >>> I guess it goes out on email before it goes on the web. I tried >>> googling for it earlier and didn't see the page... weird. Perhaps >>> they consider those on the list to be more in tune with the >>> federation workings and want to let them know first or something. >>> >>> Anyway, again congrats to all, and I look forward to meeting a bunch >>> of you at convention. :) >>> >>> On 5/8/13, Miso wrote: >>>> I thought the official press has not been released yet. I am sure >>>> this will be any time soon. Congratulations to all the finalists!! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> %40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmai >>> l.com >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri >> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the >> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only >> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have >> eternal life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 9 01:01:04 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 21:01:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Pausing audio files when working in other windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <017c01ce4c50$aead7120$0c085360$@gmail.com> Cindy, If you are using Windows Media Player, the keystroke to pause is control P. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pausing audio files when working in other windows Hey Cindy, Are you using a laptop or desktop at work? A lot of laptops have buttons specific to them which will allow you to play/pause skip forward and backwards. Also, if you have a notetaker, they all play wav files, so that might be an options. You can also try using a victor reader stream. I can't think of keyboard strokes for starting and stopping without having to go to the specific program. I think that iPhones like mp4s... but don't quote me on that since I'm slightly technology illiterate. Mary On 5/8/13, Cindy Bennett wrote: > Hi, > > I use Window's 7 with JAWS and am curious if I can pause audio files > while I am in another window. For example, I transcribe recordings as > part of my job, and it is annoying to alt tab to iTunes. When I do > this to catch up typing, I miss what is being said. If there was a > quick keystroke that I could do to pause the recording while I am > typing in Word, that would be so helpful. Does anyone know if this is > possible? Are there music players other than iTunes where this is > possible? > > I tried playing the recordings on my iPhone, and they would start to > play but would then stop and I would get a message saying that there > was an error and the file could not be viewed. Are there other file > types that would work better on iOS devices? These are wave files. > > Thanks. > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Secretary: National Association of Blind Students Legislative > Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington > > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmai > l.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." - Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu May 9 17:59:04 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 10:59:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Announcing the NABS mentoring program In-Reply-To: <1C0CA936-395C-43BB-8777-F33463B0BC89@gmail.com> References: <1C0CA936-395C-43BB-8777-F33463B0BC89@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3EF16E42-6347-4303-A9CA-368F8CDE1A09@gmail.com> > Greetings: > > > > The National Association of Blind Students is excited to announce that we will be hosting a mentoring program as part of the activities for students at the 2013 NFB national convention, being held in Orlando Florida from July 1 to July6. We will be pairing students up with one-on-one student mentors who are experienced with national convention and, ideally, share professional and other interests. I know, this sounds great. But, to make it work, we need your participation! > > > > We are looking for folks who would be interested in having, or serving as, a student mentor during the week of convention. When selecting mentees, we will give preference to first-time convention attendees. But if there is enough space, we would like to open it up to those of you who have already attended a convention as well. > > In order to be a mentee, you must: > > Be a high school junior or senior, or a current college or graduate student (nontraditional students are welcome); and > Be available to attend a welcome meeting with us on Monday, July 1 from 6:00-7:30 p.m. > If you want to apply to become a mentee, please fill out a short survey at: > > http://nabslink.org/drupal/content/mentee-form > > > > In order to be a mentor, you must: > > Have attended at least one NFB convention before; > Be a current college or graduate student, or have graduated within the last two years (nontraditional students are welcome); and > Be available to attend a welcome meeting with us on Monday, July 1 from 6:00-7:30 p.m., and then be willing to spend some time with your mentee throughout the week. > If you want to apply to become a mentor, please fill out a short survey at: > > http://nabslink.org/drupal/content/mentor-form > > > > Please share this with your friends or anybody who might be interested. > > > > Thank you for your interest in this new NABS program! > > Darian Smith > 2nd Vice President, National Association of Blind Students > dsmithnfb at gmail.com > > www.nabslink.org > Follow the National Association of Blind Students on twitter: @nabslink > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 10 02:35:29 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. Message-ID: Hi folks, I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made you want to stick around? interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. Best, Darian From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Fri May 10 02:52:00 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 22:52:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, Mr. Darian. My name is Helga, and I'm a member of a chapter meeting. Hope to talk to you soon. God bless! -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 10:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. Hi folks, I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made you want to stick around? interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. Best, Darian _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Fri May 10 03:12:02 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 03:12:02 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: I'm a member of the state chapter of the NFB of Arkansas! I've been involved since 2010. I don't like it very much, because of the lack of communication between us, outside of conventions. Our state president responds to my E-Mails occasionally, but I rarely hear from other members. We tried to start a state division of NABS, last year, but that was a disaster, because noone could get their act together, and I didn't have a way to the state convention! The president of the new NABS division promised me that the NABS meeting would also be a phone conference for those of us that couldn't attend, but it never happened that way. I asked that president for the minutes from the last two conference calls, because I couldn't attend them due to my obligations at my church. The secretary that they elected, (without my knowledge,) supposedly forgot to send out the minutes! I'm tired of being told one thing, and then getting something completely different! It's time for accountability in our state chapter! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Helga Schreiber [helga.schreiber at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. Hello, Mr. Darian. My name is Helga, and I'm a member of a chapter meeting. Hope to talk to you soon. God bless! -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 10:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. Hi folks, I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made you want to stick around? interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. Best, Darian _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 10 03:14:33 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 20:14:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother In-Reply-To: <517AEB35.8010607@tysdomain.com> References: <2FF6E0B8-593E-41C4-9418-A02E36FE624C@ymail.com> <019301ce4208$ad3b7690$07b263b0$@gmail.com> <-5266873068869780232@unknownmsgid> <005801ce41ae$4413db30$cc3b9190$@gmail.com> <2346767950357188835@unknownmsgid> <005a01ce41bb$85edb140$91c913c0$@gmail.com> <3200FE52-7975-44BC-BAB0-5DCD42EC02D2@gmail.com> <517AE189.7090906@gmail.com> <517AEB35.8010607@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> Hi all, So I am no doubt catching this thread on the tail-end, but I still want to react to the letter. Firstly, I appreciate your sharing this with all of us. The Nabs-L list is a community, one with many many eyes reading what we write, but a community all the same. No doubt we all have different views on a particular subject and certainly different views on blindness and the NFB, as well as the various organizations that feel that for their part they are doing great things to change lives for the blind. Personally, I don't believe any organization is perfect, nor do I think that any one organization is completely negative. I think the best work in any movement is done when the people who are most effected by the issues they face are the people making the decisions and driving the change ("nothing about us, without us"). In the National Federation of the blind, we work with our sighted peers in making those changes, which makes sense if we say that the work we does being done so that we can compete on a level playing field with our sighted peers. I think that's important, because sometimes we think that we are setting ourselves in a situation where it is the blind against the sighted, and that's not very accurate at all. Our parents of blind children are some of the strongest advocates in our movement, we have sighted members of our affiliates that are just as loyal as some of our blind members, and we don't consider them any less or any more of a part of what we do. Further, I would dare say that sighted students can be just as active members of our organization, and we should welcome them with open arms. There is no denying that there is not a lot of cross-organization collaboration, and for my part, I think this is unfortunate. I think that it is possible that one day, maybe sooner than we know, we will see some of those bridges mended, and meaningful relationships grow from that. In the meantime, I think it's fine to keep an open mind and connect with anyone you feel a commonality with in either organization, however that connection might take root from. I admire anyone who feels strongly enough about a matter to advocate for it. Some learn it from their parents, some learn it on their own, some have learned it from theACB or NFB. I personally think I gained parts of my philosophy on blindness and advocacy as I lived and learned, but a good deal of it came from my experiences in the federation. One thing that I will say in closing is that I believe we all have the ability to be the change that we wish to see in the world we live in. Some of us do it by working with the blind, some of us do it by living our lives and showing in how we live it how we believe the blind out to be treated. Obviously, you can and should find your own thing to believe in, but so long as you find that thing you believe in, it tends to make life much more of an amazing experience. respectfully, Darian On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > I only have a couple of points. > First, I really liked the letter you wrote--I'd just remove the random lol. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but older people generally don't care for what Lol means and it totally kills your flow here. > Second, you're focusing a lot on NFB and ACB fighting among themselves. This might be true, but there are amazing people in both camps. I've been attacked on this list for being part of the ACB, then others don't care because whatever I am part of, as long as I do something somehow to help it doesn't matter. > The organizations themselves don't fight, it's mainly the die-hard fans of either camp. While it's not always the case, I've never seen all that much intelligence in the people that attacked me for being part of the ACB to begin with, so if they feel they need to scream at me, I'd rather them do that than say, try to promote fairness by doing something that would make us look worse. > > You also kind of sound like you're screaming into the wind here with your talk of nothing happening. There is a lot of stuff happening, it's just a very slow process. Your influence as well as everyone elses helps contribute to that bigger picture, even if it's not obvious right now. > > Just my two cents. > On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Robert William Kingett wrote: >> Let me know your thoughts. >> >> Dear xxx. >> >> I hope that I got your name right because I have never ever been good with names. I guess it runs in the family. LOL. >> >> I want to introduce myself to you. Sam forwarded me your message and it was really moving that I just had to respond personally. >> >> I want to introduce what Sam and I do and then I will comment on what you have so truthfully written and I also want to give you my thoughts, based on observation alone. Sam and are both blindness related advocates here in Chicago Illinois. I'm a blind journalist here in Chicago Illinois as well as an advocate for the LGBT community. I'm most known for my journalistic endeavors and I want to tell you something very personal and profound. >> >> I've been blind ever since birth and I grew up in a very abusive environment. When you say the word invisible that really struck a chord with me. Even though I have dealt with the abusive past by turning it into positive advocacy energy that one word brought back several memories. I was invisible in both cases, from the blindness side and the domestic violence side, and, I had to find my own way out of it because the school for the blind I was in just didn't care to get involved with such matters. The unusualDCF investigations never went as far as someone from child services coming to our home to investigate only to deem that everything was fine because, even though I did not like my mom, I covered up for her. My troubles at home were invisible to everyone, or so I believed. The truth is that they weren't invisible and someone had noticed. Naturally, they just didn't know what to do. >> >> In school I also learned to embrace my blindness because I saw the treatment that we received at a young age. When I was 11, I asked the manager at a restaurant why he didn't have any Braille menus, and why he was breaking the law. He didn't have an answer for me, so I began to ask that question at every restaurant I came to. It was an easy question for me to ask. Why? Because I asked my mom why she broke the law all the time. I was, and still am, a bookworm so I had a lot of questions, based on the stuff I read critically. In high school I found my own way out of the abusive home and that's when I truly learned what independence was and so I began to go around school telling other blind kids what it meant as well. On the academic side of the circle, the Florida school for the deaf and the blind was very good, but anything social skills related, advocacy related, that just flew over their heads. They didn't even tell us what college was going to be like. I had to experience that for myself. I realized that I had a gift and that gift was to string words together to make people listen. I was a writer and I started studying the extent, the power that my gift held. I began writing proposals for a school newspaper that the school had never had and I soon started my own school newspaper. Even at a blind school, the teachers told me that no one would read it. Kids at Saint Augustine high were crawling to pay for the fourth issue. >> >> I do have a point to this entire story so just hang in there! LOL. >> >> I wasn't invisible anymore but the blindness community was, and I realized this even more after I got out of high school. I'm sure that you have heard about the NFB and ACB and AFB and all of the above and many more. If you haven’t they are blindness advocacy groups that do their own parts in different things. You want to talk about invisible? These groups are invisible. They are just now being heard about in mainstream media regularly. Even now, though, the only people who know about them are blind people. Why? Because there haven’t been any loud voices. Okay, correction, there are loud voices but they are quietly yelling, thinking they will not do anything worthwhile by speaking up. You’re an example of a voice that everyone should listen to. These blind groups would listen but there's a huge problem with these groups, and it's a shame to see the ironic twist, they don't reach out to sighted people for assistance with legal matters, or any other matter, they'd rather stay in their own tents, if you get my drift. Some efforts, not all, but some, are after the media to do stories about them. The NFB and ACB both have a lot to offer but they both don't do a big enough job on their own separately. They do things on a case-by-case basis, and their efforts are to educate the public about the blind and then change comes after the education. Plus, they even fight among one another, and waste energy doing it. All that yelling could have been done to do something better. The ACB people will say they are better, the NFB say that they do the right thing. Never, ever, have they collaborated on anything solid to make a powerful enough standing for change. Education does little good if change isn't implemented but they haven’t realized this yet. They want to say that their group is better than the other rather than make efforts to change the community to better serve the blind. >> >> That being said, there's a lot of people who are making a difference. >> >> For example, I want to point you to Christine. http://www.christineha.com/ >> >> She was a blind MasterChef winner last season. >> >> There's a car that's driverless, allowing blind people to be mobile like never before... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car >> >> Also, the ACB have managed to get the communications and accessibility act signed by Obama, which will allow all electronic devices, even cell phones to be accessible. http://www.acb.org/adp/tv.html. They are also taking strides to make all paper currency accessible to the blind and the visually impaired. >> >> The NFB have done much work on employment. They have done so many things that I'll just give you their website. https://nfb.org/ >> >> And people like us, me, Sam, you, and every other small voice out there makes a big difference, even if we don't realize it or see it right away. For instance, I received an email from a woman whose wives, sisters, and friend I helped out years ago. You know how they say that every action has an equal and opposite reaction? Even though the action isn't seen and heard for years, it's an action that will be carried out for sure. For example, the FSDB kids of today now have a paper they can write for because of my simple action three years ago. I'm glad that I made that decision. >> >> I do think that we should unite to give the blind a much more stable ground to walk on but I'm just one person. Bigger and better companies and blindness organizations have a lot to fight about that are a lot more important than our wishes and dreams. I'm sorry to say but it's the truth. These blindness groups have a lot of energy to fight each other but that's changing too. That being said, I'm still going to continue to do my small actions of writing and advocacy and standing up for our rights as blind people because I know that somewhere along the line, even after my death, I will have made a powerful impact on someone's life and have made them a better person because I managed to get people talking because an article was published or because I demanded to see a company officer to straighten out an accessibility barrier, gave them some guidance. It's hard to stand up for the right thing because it seems that no one is listening. They are listening. I do believe, however, that this blindness schism is the worst that I've ever seen and it's the dumbest thing ever especially since they both promote inclusion and equality and they can't even include one another. To combat this, the people, not organizations, not the NFB, not the ACB, not the AFB, the people need to change what it means to be blind. We’re doing that. You’re doing that. You’re amazing! We’re amazing! Even though we’re making progress it will take time, as with all great things. Big things come in small packages and voices and efforts. >> >> Your small actions towards your granddaughter will be remembered, and appreciated, and used very well even though they may seem as though they are not getting anywhere at the moment they will blossom into something big. People like us just have to continue to be loud positive vocal people who will both advocate and educate for the blind and the visually impaired. We can't rely on just blindness groups because then we will be sitting on our hands talking, taking no action. >> >> I just want to say hell yes you’re a good grandmother. She knows Braille; she's standing up for herself. You’re giving her all she needs, even if it's not right now. Even a small ripple can make a big wave. We’re making a big wave, even if that wave won’t come until years later. Our small actions will impact the world, and that's why I do what I do. That’s why I don't give up because no matter how much arguing goes on, ignorance is displayed, services are denied, etc. I know that I have the power to change things. I'm proud to use my particular power of writing to change the world and to change what it means to be blind. You are changing your granddaughter’s world, and someday, she will remember how you changed her world and then she will change other people’s lives and that will be all because of you, xxx, you’re an amazing ripple. Continue to make that wave! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Fri May 10 04:11:05 2013 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbbmacc O'Connor) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 23:11:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students Message-ID: NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder, President 9522 Lagersfield Circle • Vienna, VA 22181 (703) 319-9226 • fschroeder at sks.com www.nfbv.org FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, tracy.soforenko at verizon.net For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional leadership ARLINGTON, Va. — Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who led the advocacy to increase funding for teachers of blind students, will be recognized today with the Commonwealth Award by the National Federation of the Blind of Virginia (NFBV)—the Commonwealth's largest and oldest organization of blind people and the leading advocate for braille literacy. For years, the Virginia Department of Education has published Standards of Quality (SOQ), which define minimum student-teacher ratios and provide partial salary support to school divisions to fund special education teachers who work within Virginia's schools. Unfortunately, unlike all other disabilities, teachers for the blind were excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case loads in many school divisions. Through Delegate Brink’s advocacy—supported by the National Federation of the Blind of Virginia—Governor McDonnell committed to fully fund the state share for staffing standards for blind and low vision students. The amended 2012-2014 budget addresses this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia’s blind and low vision students. "Parents of blind children are frustrated that their children are not learning the blindness skills necessary to compete with their sighted peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric Schroeder. "We cannot expect students to learn braille and independent travel when teachers for the blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 minutes a week. Because reading and writing is a fundamental skill for all students, we are excited that blind students will now receive the quality education that they deserve." Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of McLean, said, "This is a long overdue step for the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision students across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school districts." The award ceremony is open to members of the media, and will feature remarks from Brink, a member of the Arlington County School Board, and advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene Restaurant (501 N. Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. ### From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri May 10 05:00:29 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 22:00:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Now this is awesome! I'm just baffled though, why was this made a problem in the first place? Sighted kids get taught how to read, why not blind kids? and I think being a TVI is one of the most difficult jobs in the world and to have so many kids that you are forced to cut your time to 30 minutes a child a week is just insanity of the first level! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Corbbmacc O'Connor (by way of David Andrews) Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 PM To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder, President 9522 Lagersfield Circle • Vienna, VA 22181 (703) 319-9226 • fschroeder at sks.com www.nfbv.org FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, tracy.soforenko at verizon.net For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional leadership ARLINGTON, Va. — Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who led the advocacy to increase funding for teachers of blind students, will be recognized today with the Commonwealth Award by the National Federation of the Blind of Virginia (NFBV)—the Commonwealth's largest and oldest organization of blind people and the leading advocate for braille literacy. For years, the Virginia Department of Education has published Standards of Quality (SOQ), which define minimum student-teacher ratios and provide partial salary support to school divisions to fund special education teachers who work within Virginia's schools. Unfortunately, unlike all other disabilities, teachers for the blind were excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case loads in many school divisions. Through Delegate Brink’s advocacy—supported by the National Federation of the Blind of Virginia—Governor McDonnell committed to fully fund the state share for staffing standards for blind and low vision students. The amended 2012-2014 budget addresses this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia’s blind and low vision students. "Parents of blind children are frustrated that their children are not learning the blindness skills necessary to compete with their sighted peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric Schroeder. "We cannot expect students to learn braille and independent travel when teachers for the blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 minutes a week. Because reading and writing is a fundamental skill for all students, we are excited that blind students will now receive the quality education that they deserve." Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of McLean, said, "This is a long overdue step for the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision students across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school districts." The award ceremony is open to members of the media, and will feature remarks from Brink, a member of the Arlington County School Board, and advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene Restaurant (501 N. Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. ### _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Fri May 10 05:26:29 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 01:26:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother In-Reply-To: <04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> References: <2FF6E0B8-593E-41C4-9418-A02E36FE624C@ymail.com><019301ce4208$ad3b7690$07b263b0$@gmail.com><-5266873068869780232@unknownmsgid><005801ce41ae$4413db30$cc3b9190$@gmail.com><2346767950357188835@unknownmsgid><005a01ce41bb$85edb140$91c913c0$@gmail.com><3200FE52-7975-44BC-BAB0-5DCD42EC02D2@gmail.com><517AE189.7090906@gmail.com> <517AEB35.8010607@tysdomain.com> <04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Mr. Robert, this is Helga Schreiber. I just wanted to say that the letter that you wrote it says many true statements. In fact, I really like the part where you say you advocate for people's rights by using your gifts as a Journalist. I actually believe that God gives all of us a gift since birth, and when you say that you say that you want to help people by using your skills as a Journalist even though they say that nobody will read your journals, you ignore them and you stood firm in yor goals to do so. As a matter of fact, I really like that, when someone has that kind of courage and faith. I'm actually a college blind freshman student, and I'm studying in order to become a Lawyer, so that I could advocate for people's rights as well. Just to let you know, I don't want to become a Lawyer just for the money; the reason I want to become a Lawyer is because I want to help people. I truly believe that God created me and all of us for a purpose, and that we dididn't came to this earth as an accident; instead, we came to this earth in order to accomplish something, and leave a legacy for our generations to come. In fact, Just to let you know, I just became blind five years ago, due to many surgeries, but the news ofbecoming blind didn't stop me; rather, it made my spirit rejoys in order to fulfil the purpose that God put on my heart; to be come a Lawyer in order to advocate for others. Actually, I want to help the elderly, disabled, immigrants, and people in general with their rights. Also, I actually have many issues with my college, due to the fact, that they don't provide the help that Visually impaired students need; I'm actually the only blind student in my college, but what happen if another blind student comes to the college, are the college going to provide the help they need with Braille and tecknology? I really like reading in Braille, but my college sdoesn't provide me my materials in Braill at all. Actually, my life story is and college experiences stories are very long, but if you want to hear them you're very welcome! I'm actually a Christian, and I believe that we should never give up or quit in our goalls; rather we should continue going. I actually like to listen to music, but I specially like to listen Christian music, and I like to listen to many artists, but one particular Christian singer that I like is called Chris Tomlin. And one of of his songs that really encourage me and gives me faith to continue is called "Whom Shall I Fear" I really like this song, and I hope that you like it as well. By the way. your letter was very encouraging for me a lot Mr. Robert. God bless! and keep using your gift in order to reach people and advocate for their rights. Hope to talk to you soon! :) -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother Hi all, So I am no doubt catching this thread on the tail-end, but I still want to react to the letter. Firstly, I appreciate your sharing this with all of us. The Nabs-L list is a community, one with many many eyes reading what we write, but a community all the same. No doubt we all have different views on a particular subject and certainly different views on blindness and the NFB, as well as the various organizations that feel that for their part they are doing great things to change lives for the blind. Personally, I don't believe any organization is perfect, nor do I think that any one organization is completely negative. I think the best work in any movement is done when the people who are most effected by the issues they face are the people making the decisions and driving the change ("nothing about us, without us"). In the National Federation of the blind, we work with our sighted peers in making those changes, which makes sense if we say that the work we does being done so that we can compete on a level playing field with our sighted peers. I think that's important, because sometimes we think that we are setting ourselves in a situation where it is the blind against the sighted, and that's not very accurate at all. Our parents of blind children are some of the strongest advocates in our movement, we have sighted members of our affiliates that are just as loyal as some of our blind members, and we don't consider them any less or any more of a part of what we do. Further, I would dare say that sighted students can be just as active members of our organization, and we should welcome them with open arms. There is no denying that there is not a lot of cross-organization collaboration, and for my part, I think this is unfortunate. I think that it is possible that one day, maybe sooner than we know, we will see some of those bridges mended, and meaningful relationships grow from that. In the meantime, I think it's fine to keep an open mind and connect with anyone you feel a commonality with in either organization, however that connection might take root from. I admire anyone who feels strongly enough about a matter to advocate for it. Some learn it from their parents, some learn it on their own, some have learned it from theACB or NFB. I personally think I gained parts of my philosophy on blindness and advocacy as I lived and learned, but a good deal of it came from my experiences in the federation. One thing that I will say in closing is that I believe we all have the ability to be the change that we wish to see in the world we live in. Some of us do it by working with the blind, some of us do it by living our lives and showing in how we live it how we believe the blind out to be treated. Obviously, you can and should find your own thing to believe in, but so long as you find that thing you believe in, it tends to make life much more of an amazing experience. respectfully, Darian On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > I only have a couple of points. > First, I really liked the letter you wrote--I'd just remove the random > lol. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but older people generally don't > care for what Lol means and it totally kills your flow here. > Second, you're focusing a lot on NFB and ACB fighting among themselves. > This might be true, but there are amazing people in both camps. I've been > attacked on this list for being part of the ACB, then others don't care > because whatever I am part of, as long as I do something somehow to help > it doesn't matter. > The organizations themselves don't fight, it's mainly the die-hard fans of > either camp. While it's not always the case, I've never seen all that much > intelligence in the people that attacked me for being part of the ACB to > begin with, so if they feel they need to scream at me, I'd rather them do > that than say, try to promote fairness by doing something that would make > us look worse. > > You also kind of sound like you're screaming into the wind here with your > talk of nothing happening. There is a lot of stuff happening, it's just a > very slow process. Your influence as well as everyone elses helps > contribute to that bigger picture, even if it's not obvious right now. > > Just my two cents. > On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Robert William Kingett wrote: >> Let me know your thoughts. >> >> Dear xxx. >> >> I hope that I got your name right because I have never ever been good >> with names. I guess it runs in the family. LOL. >> >> I want to introduce myself to you. Sam forwarded me your message and it >> was really moving that I just had to respond personally. >> >> I want to introduce what Sam and I do and then I will comment on what you >> have so truthfully written and I also want to give you my thoughts, based >> on observation alone. Sam and are both blindness related advocates here >> in Chicago Illinois. I'm a blind journalist here in Chicago Illinois as >> well as an advocate for the LGBT community. I'm most known for my >> journalistic endeavors and I want to tell you something very personal and >> profound. >> >> I've been blind ever since birth and I grew up in a very abusive >> environment. When you say the word invisible that really struck a chord >> with me. Even though I have dealt with the abusive past by turning it >> into positive advocacy energy that one word brought back several >> memories. I was invisible in both cases, from the blindness side and the >> domestic violence side, and, I had to find my own way out of it because >> the school for the blind I was in just didn't care to get involved with >> such matters. The unusualDCF investigations never went as far as someone >> from child services coming to our home to investigate only to deem that >> everything was fine because, even though I did not like my mom, I covered >> up for her. My troubles at home were invisible to everyone, or so I >> believed. The truth is that they weren't invisible and someone had >> noticed. Naturally, they just didn't know what to do. >> >> In school I also learned to embrace my blindness because I saw the >> treatment that we received at a young age. When I was 11, I asked the >> manager at a restaurant why he didn't have any Braille menus, and why he >> was breaking the law. He didn't have an answer for me, so I began to ask >> that question at every restaurant I came to. It was an easy question for >> me to ask. Why? Because I asked my mom why she broke the law all the >> time. I was, and still am, a bookworm so I had a lot of questions, based >> on the stuff I read critically. In high school I found my own way out of >> the abusive home and that's when I truly learned what independence was >> and so I began to go around school telling other blind kids what it meant >> as well. On the academic side of the circle, the Florida school for the >> deaf and the blind was very good, but anything social skills related, >> advocacy related, that just flew over their heads. They didn't even tell >> us what college was going to be like. I had to experience that for >> myself. I realized that I had a gift and that gift was to string words >> together to make people listen. I was a writer and I started studying the >> extent, the power that my gift held. I began writing proposals for a >> school newspaper that the school had never had and I soon started my own >> school newspaper. Even at a blind school, the teachers told me that no >> one would read it. Kids at Saint Augustine high were crawling to pay for >> the fourth issue. >> >> I do have a point to this entire story so just hang in there! LOL. >> >> I wasn't invisible anymore but the blindness community was, and I >> realized this even more after I got out of high school. I'm sure that you >> have heard about the NFB and ACB and AFB and all of the above and many >> more. If you haven’t they are blindness advocacy groups that do their own >> parts in different things. You want to talk about invisible? These groups >> are invisible. They are just now being heard about in mainstream media >> regularly. Even now, though, the only people who know about them are >> blind people. Why? Because there haven’t been any loud voices. Okay, >> correction, there are loud voices but they are quietly yelling, thinking >> they will not do anything worthwhile by speaking up. You’re an example of >> a voice that everyone should listen to. These blind groups would listen >> but there's a huge problem with these groups, and it's a shame to see the >> ironic twist, they don't reach out to sighted people for assistance with >> legal matters, or any other matter, they'd rather stay in their own >> tents, if you get my drift. Some efforts, not all, but some, are after >> the media to do stories about them. The NFB and ACB both have a lot to >> offer but they both don't do a big enough job on their own separately. >> They do things on a case-by-case basis, and their efforts are to educate >> the public about the blind and then change comes after the education. >> Plus, they even fight among one another, and waste energy doing it. All >> that yelling could have been done to do something better. The ACB people >> will say they are better, the NFB say that they do the right thing. >> Never, ever, have they collaborated on anything solid to make a powerful >> enough standing for change. Education does little good if change isn't >> implemented but they haven’t realized this yet. They want to say that >> their group is better than the other rather than make efforts to change >> the community to better serve the blind. >> >> That being said, there's a lot of people who are making a difference. >> >> For example, I want to point you to Christine. >> http://www.christineha.com/ >> >> She was a blind MasterChef winner last season. >> >> There's a car that's driverless, allowing blind people to be mobile like >> never before... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car >> >> Also, the ACB have managed to get the communications and accessibility >> act signed by Obama, which will allow all electronic devices, even cell >> phones to be accessible. http://www.acb.org/adp/tv.html. They are also >> taking strides to make all paper currency accessible to the blind and the >> visually impaired. >> >> The NFB have done much work on employment. They have done so many things >> that I'll just give you their website. https://nfb.org/ >> >> And people like us, me, Sam, you, and every other small voice out there >> makes a big difference, even if we don't realize it or see it right away. >> For instance, I received an email from a woman whose wives, sisters, and >> friend I helped out years ago. You know how they say that every action >> has an equal and opposite reaction? Even though the action isn't seen and >> heard for years, it's an action that will be carried out for sure. For >> example, the FSDB kids of today now have a paper they can write for >> because of my simple action three years ago. I'm glad that I made that >> decision. >> >> I do think that we should unite to give the blind a much more stable >> ground to walk on but I'm just one person. Bigger and better companies >> and blindness organizations have a lot to fight about that are a lot more >> important than our wishes and dreams. I'm sorry to say but it's the >> truth. These blindness groups have a lot of energy to fight each other >> but that's changing too. That being said, I'm still going to continue to >> do my small actions of writing and advocacy and standing up for our >> rights as blind people because I know that somewhere along the line, even >> after my death, I will have made a powerful impact on someone's life and >> have made them a better person because I managed to get people talking >> because an article was published or because I demanded to see a company >> officer to straighten out an accessibility barrier, gave them some >> guidance. It's hard to stand up for the right thing because it seems that >> no one is listening. They are listening. I do believe, however, that this >> blindness schism is the worst that I've ever seen and it's the dumbest >> thing ever especially since they both promote inclusion and equality and >> they can't even include one another. To combat this, the people, not >> organizations, not the NFB, not the ACB, not the AFB, the people need to >> change what it means to be blind. We’re doing that. You’re doing that. >> You’re amazing! We’re amazing! Even though we’re making progress it will >> take time, as with all great things. Big things come in small packages >> and voices and efforts. >> >> Your small actions towards your granddaughter will be remembered, and >> appreciated, and used very well even though they may seem as though they >> are not getting anywhere at the moment they will blossom into something >> big. People like us just have to continue to be loud positive vocal >> people who will both advocate and educate for the blind and the visually >> impaired. We can't rely on just blindness groups because then we will be >> sitting on our hands talking, taking no action. >> >> I just want to say hell yes you’re a good grandmother. She knows Braille; >> she's standing up for herself. You’re giving her all she needs, even if >> it's not right now. Even a small ripple can make a big wave. We’re making >> a big wave, even if that wave won’t come until years later. Our small >> actions will impact the world, and that's why I do what I do. That’s why >> I don't give up because no matter how much arguing goes on, ignorance is >> displayed, services are denied, etc. I know that I have the power to >> change things. I'm proud to use my particular power of writing to change >> the world and to change what it means to be blind. You are changing your >> granddaughter’s world, and someday, she will remember how you changed her >> world and then she will change other people’s lives and that will be all >> because of you, xxx, you’re an amazing ripple. Continue to make that >> wave! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri May 10 11:49:49 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 06:49:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. Message-ID: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, I don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. Best, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Darian Smith References: <2FF6E0B8-593E-41C4-9418-A02E36FE624C@ymail.com><019301ce4208$ad3b7690$07b263b0$@gmail.com><-5266873068869780232@unknownmsgid><005801ce41ae$4413db30$cc3b9190$@gmail.com><2346767950357188835@unknownmsgid><005a01ce41bb$85edb140$91c913c0$@gmail.com><3200FE52-7975-44BC-BAB0-5DCD42EC02D2@gmail.com><517AE189.7090906@gmail.com> <517AEB35.8010607@tysdomain.com> <04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003801ce4cb6$b4a0f7d0$1de2e770$@gmail.com> I am also looking to do some advocating. Not as a lawyer, but as I make the journey towards obtaining my phd, it will included advocating for persons with disabilities, or other focused groups who need assistance. That won't be my full time job, but it will be a part of it. I would love to help ADA lawyers with my advocacy skills, and with my knowledge on the ADA. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 1:26 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother Hi Mr. Robert, this is Helga Schreiber. I just wanted to say that the letter that you wrote it says many true statements. In fact, I really like the part where you say you advocate for people's rights by using your gifts as a Journalist. I actually believe that God gives all of us a gift since birth, and when you say that you say that you want to help people by using your skills as a Journalist even though they say that nobody will read your journals, you ignore them and you stood firm in yor goals to do so. As a matter of fact, I really like that, when someone has that kind of courage and faith. I'm actually a college blind freshman student, and I'm studying in order to become a Lawyer, so that I could advocate for people's rights as well. Just to let you know, I don't want to become a Lawyer just for the money; the reason I want to become a Lawyer is because I want to help people. I truly believe that God created me and all of us for a purpose, and that we dididn't came to this earth as an accident; instead, we came to this earth in order to accomplish something, and leave a legacy for our generations to come. In fact, Just to let you know, I just became blind five years ago, due to many surgeries, but the news ofbecoming blind didn't stop me; rather, it made my spirit rejoys in order to fulfil the purpose that God put on my heart; to be come a Lawyer in order to advocate for others. Actually, I want to help the elderly, disabled, immigrants, and people in general with their rights. Also, I actually have many issues with my college, due to the fact, that they don't provide the help that Visually impaired students need; I'm actually the only blind student in my college, but what happen if another blind student comes to the college, are the college going to provide the help they need with Braille and tecknology? I really like reading in Braille, but my college sdoesn't provide me my materials in Braill at all. Actually, my life story is and college experiences stories are very long, but if you want to hear them you're very welcome! I'm actually a Christian, and I believe that we should never give up or quit in our goalls; rather we should continue going. I actually like to listen to music, but I specially like to listen Christian music, and I like to listen to many artists, but one particular Christian singer that I like is called Chris Tomlin. And one of of his songs that really encourage me and gives me faith to continue is called "Whom Shall I Fear" I really like this song, and I hope that you like it as well. By the way. your letter was very encouraging for me a lot Mr. Robert. God bless! and keep using your gift in order to reach people and advocate for their rights. Hope to talk to you soon! :) -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother Hi all, So I am no doubt catching this thread on the tail-end, but I still want to react to the letter. Firstly, I appreciate your sharing this with all of us. The Nabs-L list is a community, one with many many eyes reading what we write, but a community all the same. No doubt we all have different views on a particular subject and certainly different views on blindness and the NFB, as well as the various organizations that feel that for their part they are doing great things to change lives for the blind. Personally, I don't believe any organization is perfect, nor do I think that any one organization is completely negative. I think the best work in any movement is done when the people who are most effected by the issues they face are the people making the decisions and driving the change ("nothing about us, without us"). In the National Federation of the blind, we work with our sighted peers in making those changes, which makes sense if we say that the work we does being done so that we can compete on a level playing field with our sighted peers. I think that's important, because sometimes we think that we are setting ourselves in a situation where it is the blind against the sighted, and that's not very accurate at all. Our parents of blind children are some of the strongest advocates in our movement, we have sighted members of our affiliates that are just as loyal as some of our blind members, and we don't consider them any less or any more of a part of what we do. Further, I would dare say that sighted students can be just as active members of our organization, and we should welcome them with open arms. There is no denying that there is not a lot of cross-organization collaboration, and for my part, I think this is unfortunate. I think that it is possible that one day, maybe sooner than we know, we will see some of those bridges mended, and meaningful relationships grow from that. In the meantime, I think it's fine to keep an open mind and connect with anyone you feel a commonality with in either organization, however that connection might take root from. I admire anyone who feels strongly enough about a matter to advocate for it. Some learn it from their parents, some learn it on their own, some have learned it from theACB or NFB. I personally think I gained parts of my philosophy on blindness and advocacy as I lived and learned, but a good deal of it came from my experiences in the federation. One thing that I will say in closing is that I believe we all have the ability to be the change that we wish to see in the world we live in. Some of us do it by working with the blind, some of us do it by living our lives and showing in how we live it how we believe the blind out to be treated. Obviously, you can and should find your own thing to believe in, but so long as you find that thing you believe in, it tends to make life much more of an amazing experience. respectfully, Darian On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > I only have a couple of points. > First, I really liked the letter you wrote--I'd just remove the random > lol. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but older people generally don't > care for what Lol means and it totally kills your flow here. > Second, you're focusing a lot on NFB and ACB fighting among themselves. > This might be true, but there are amazing people in both camps. I've been > attacked on this list for being part of the ACB, then others don't care > because whatever I am part of, as long as I do something somehow to help > it doesn't matter. > The organizations themselves don't fight, it's mainly the die-hard fans of > either camp. While it's not always the case, I've never seen all that much > intelligence in the people that attacked me for being part of the ACB to > begin with, so if they feel they need to scream at me, I'd rather them do > that than say, try to promote fairness by doing something that would make > us look worse. > > You also kind of sound like you're screaming into the wind here with your > talk of nothing happening. There is a lot of stuff happening, it's just a > very slow process. Your influence as well as everyone elses helps > contribute to that bigger picture, even if it's not obvious right now. > > Just my two cents. > On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Robert William Kingett wrote: >> Let me know your thoughts. >> >> Dear xxx. >> >> I hope that I got your name right because I have never ever been good >> with names. I guess it runs in the family. LOL. >> >> I want to introduce myself to you. Sam forwarded me your message and it >> was really moving that I just had to respond personally. >> >> I want to introduce what Sam and I do and then I will comment on what you >> have so truthfully written and I also want to give you my thoughts, based >> on observation alone. Sam and are both blindness related advocates here >> in Chicago Illinois. I'm a blind journalist here in Chicago Illinois as >> well as an advocate for the LGBT community. I'm most known for my >> journalistic endeavors and I want to tell you something very personal and >> profound. >> >> I've been blind ever since birth and I grew up in a very abusive >> environment. When you say the word invisible that really struck a chord >> with me. Even though I have dealt with the abusive past by turning it >> into positive advocacy energy that one word brought back several >> memories. I was invisible in both cases, from the blindness side and the >> domestic violence side, and, I had to find my own way out of it because >> the school for the blind I was in just didn't care to get involved with >> such matters. The unusualDCF investigations never went as far as someone >> from child services coming to our home to investigate only to deem that >> everything was fine because, even though I did not like my mom, I covered >> up for her. My troubles at home were invisible to everyone, or so I >> believed. The truth is that they weren't invisible and someone had >> noticed. Naturally, they just didn't know what to do. >> >> In school I also learned to embrace my blindness because I saw the >> treatment that we received at a young age. When I was 11, I asked the >> manager at a restaurant why he didn't have any Braille menus, and why he >> was breaking the law. He didn't have an answer for me, so I began to ask >> that question at every restaurant I came to. It was an easy question for >> me to ask. Why? Because I asked my mom why she broke the law all the >> time. I was, and still am, a bookworm so I had a lot of questions, based >> on the stuff I read critically. In high school I found my own way out of >> the abusive home and that's when I truly learned what independence was >> and so I began to go around school telling other blind kids what it meant >> as well. On the academic side of the circle, the Florida school for the >> deaf and the blind was very good, but anything social skills related, >> advocacy related, that just flew over their heads. They didn't even tell >> us what college was going to be like. I had to experience that for >> myself. I realized that I had a gift and that gift was to string words >> together to make people listen. I was a writer and I started studying the >> extent, the power that my gift held. I began writing proposals for a >> school newspaper that the school had never had and I soon started my own >> school newspaper. Even at a blind school, the teachers told me that no >> one would read it. Kids at Saint Augustine high were crawling to pay for >> the fourth issue. >> >> I do have a point to this entire story so just hang in there! LOL. >> >> I wasn't invisible anymore but the blindness community was, and I >> realized this even more after I got out of high school. I'm sure that you >> have heard about the NFB and ACB and AFB and all of the above and many >> more. If you haven't they are blindness advocacy groups that do their own >> parts in different things. You want to talk about invisible? These groups >> are invisible. They are just now being heard about in mainstream media >> regularly. Even now, though, the only people who know about them are >> blind people. Why? Because there haven't been any loud voices. Okay, >> correction, there are loud voices but they are quietly yelling, thinking >> they will not do anything worthwhile by speaking up. You're an example of >> a voice that everyone should listen to. These blind groups would listen >> but there's a huge problem with these groups, and it's a shame to see the >> ironic twist, they don't reach out to sighted people for assistance with >> legal matters, or any other matter, they'd rather stay in their own >> tents, if you get my drift. Some efforts, not all, but some, are after >> the media to do stories about them. The NFB and ACB both have a lot to >> offer but they both don't do a big enough job on their own separately. >> They do things on a case-by-case basis, and their efforts are to educate >> the public about the blind and then change comes after the education. >> Plus, they even fight among one another, and waste energy doing it. All >> that yelling could have been done to do something better. The ACB people >> will say they are better, the NFB say that they do the right thing. >> Never, ever, have they collaborated on anything solid to make a powerful >> enough standing for change. Education does little good if change isn't >> implemented but they haven't realized this yet. They want to say that >> their group is better than the other rather than make efforts to change >> the community to better serve the blind. >> >> That being said, there's a lot of people who are making a difference. >> >> For example, I want to point you to Christine. >> http://www.christineha.com/ >> >> She was a blind MasterChef winner last season. >> >> There's a car that's driverless, allowing blind people to be mobile like >> never before... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car >> >> Also, the ACB have managed to get the communications and accessibility >> act signed by Obama, which will allow all electronic devices, even cell >> phones to be accessible. http://www.acb.org/adp/tv.html. They are also >> taking strides to make all paper currency accessible to the blind and the >> visually impaired. >> >> The NFB have done much work on employment. They have done so many things >> that I'll just give you their website. https://nfb.org/ >> >> And people like us, me, Sam, you, and every other small voice out there >> makes a big difference, even if we don't realize it or see it right away. >> For instance, I received an email from a woman whose wives, sisters, and >> friend I helped out years ago. You know how they say that every action >> has an equal and opposite reaction? Even though the action isn't seen and >> heard for years, it's an action that will be carried out for sure. For >> example, the FSDB kids of today now have a paper they can write for >> because of my simple action three years ago. I'm glad that I made that >> decision. >> >> I do think that we should unite to give the blind a much more stable >> ground to walk on but I'm just one person. Bigger and better companies >> and blindness organizations have a lot to fight about that are a lot more >> important than our wishes and dreams. I'm sorry to say but it's the >> truth. These blindness groups have a lot of energy to fight each other >> but that's changing too. That being said, I'm still going to continue to >> do my small actions of writing and advocacy and standing up for our >> rights as blind people because I know that somewhere along the line, even >> after my death, I will have made a powerful impact on someone's life and >> have made them a better person because I managed to get people talking >> because an article was published or because I demanded to see a company >> officer to straighten out an accessibility barrier, gave them some >> guidance. It's hard to stand up for the right thing because it seems that >> no one is listening. They are listening. I do believe, however, that this >> blindness schism is the worst that I've ever seen and it's the dumbest >> thing ever especially since they both promote inclusion and equality and >> they can't even include one another. To combat this, the people, not >> organizations, not the NFB, not the ACB, not the AFB, the people need to >> change what it means to be blind. We're doing that. You're doing that. >> You're amazing! We're amazing! Even though we're making progress it will >> take time, as with all great things. Big things come in small packages >> and voices and efforts. >> >> Your small actions towards your granddaughter will be remembered, and >> appreciated, and used very well even though they may seem as though they >> are not getting anywhere at the moment they will blossom into something >> big. People like us just have to continue to be loud positive vocal >> people who will both advocate and educate for the blind and the visually >> impaired. We can't rely on just blindness groups because then we will be >> sitting on our hands talking, taking no action. >> >> I just want to say hell yes you're a good grandmother. She knows Braille; >> she's standing up for herself. You're giving her all she needs, even if >> it's not right now. Even a small ripple can make a big wave. We're making >> a big wave, even if that wave won't come until years later. Our small >> actions will impact the world, and that's why I do what I do. That's why >> I don't give up because no matter how much arguing goes on, ignorance is >> displayed, services are denied, etc. I know that I have the power to >> change things. I'm proud to use my particular power of writing to change >> the world and to change what it means to be blind. You are changing your >> granddaughter's world, and someday, she will remember how you changed her >> world and then she will change other people's lives and that will be all >> because of you, xxx, you're an amazing ripple. Continue to make that >> wave! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 10 13:12:51 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:12:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't have a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't be enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've gone to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to attend more meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get up on a Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) for a 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested in—not a very easy thing to do. * Smile! * Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist wrote: > I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, I don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. > > Best, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Darian Smith To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 > Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > > Hi folks, > > I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? > If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made you want to stick around? > interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. > Best, > Darian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 10 14:02:44 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:02:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother In-Reply-To: <003801ce4cb6$b4a0f7d0$1de2e770$@gmail.com> References: <2FF6E0B8-593E-41C4-9418-A02E36FE624C@ymail.com> <019301ce4208$ad3b7690$07b263b0$@gmail.com> <-5266873068869780232@unknownmsgid> <005801ce41ae$4413db30$cc3b9190$@gmail.com> <2346767950357188835@unknownmsgid> <005a01ce41bb$85edb140$91c913c0$@gmail.com> <3200FE52-7975-44BC-BAB0-5DCD42EC02D2@gmail.com> <517AE189.7090906@gmail.com> <517AEB35.8010607@tysdomain.com> <04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> <003801ce4cb6$b4a0f7d0$1de2e770$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <-1895974968827022538@unknownmsgid> That's great to hear!! In my opinion, anyone can advocate in his/her own way, whether as a career or as a volunteer. Justin, as you know, much of our advocacy work in the Federation is done by Federationists who do it on a volunteer basis. So, don't feel like you can't advocate for the rights of the blind and other people with disabilities without doing it as your job. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 9:27 AM, justin williams wrote: > I am also looking to do some advocating. Not as a lawyer, but as I make the > journey towards obtaining my phd, it will included advocating for persons > with disabilities, or other focused groups who need assistance. That won't > be my full time job, but it will be a part of it. I would love to help ADA > lawyers with my advocacy skills, and with my knowledge on the ADA. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 1:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother > > Hi Mr. Robert, this is Helga Schreiber. I just wanted to say that the letter > > that you wrote it says many true statements. In fact, I really like the part > > where you say you advocate for people's rights by using your gifts as a > Journalist. I actually believe that God gives all of us a gift since birth, > and when you say that you say that you want to help people by using your > skills as a Journalist even though they say that nobody will read your > journals, you ignore them and you stood firm in yor goals to do so. As a > matter of fact, I really like that, when someone has that kind of courage > and faith. I'm actually a college blind freshman student, and I'm studying > in order to become a Lawyer, so that I could advocate for people's rights as > > well. Just to let you know, I don't want to become a Lawyer just for the > money; the reason I want to become a Lawyer is because I want to help > people. I truly believe that God created me and all of us for a purpose, and > > that we dididn't came to this earth as an accident; instead, we came to this > > earth in order to accomplish something, and leave a legacy for our > generations to come. In fact, Just to let you know, I just became blind five > > years ago, due to many surgeries, but the news ofbecoming blind didn't stop > me; rather, it made my spirit rejoys in order to fulfil the purpose that God > > put on my heart; to be come a Lawyer in order to advocate for others. > Actually, I want to help the elderly, disabled, immigrants, and people in > general with their rights. Also, I actually have many issues with my > college, due to the fact, that they don't provide the help that Visually > impaired students need; I'm actually the only blind student in my college, > but what happen if another blind student comes to the college, are the > college going to provide the help they need with Braille and tecknology? I > really like reading in Braille, but my college sdoesn't provide me my > materials in Braill at all. Actually, my life story is and college > experiences stories are very long, but if you want to hear them you're very > welcome! I'm actually a Christian, and I believe that we should never give > up or quit in our goalls; rather we should continue going. I actually like > to listen to music, but I specially like to listen Christian music, and I > like to listen to many artists, but one particular Christian singer that I > like is called Chris Tomlin. And one of of his songs that really encourage > me and gives me faith to continue is called "Whom Shall I Fear" I really > like this song, and I hope that you like it as well. By the way. your letter > > was very encouraging for me a lot Mr. Robert. God bless! and keep using your > > gift in order to reach people and advocate for their rights. Hope to talk to > > you soon! :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darian Smith > Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother > > Hi all, > So I am no doubt catching this thread on the tail-end, but I still want > to react to the letter. > > Firstly, I appreciate your sharing this with all of us. The Nabs-L list > > is a community, one with many many eyes reading what we write, but a > community all the same. > No doubt we all have different views on a particular subject and > certainly different views on blindness and the NFB, as well as the various > organizations that feel that for their part they are doing great things > to change lives for the blind. > > Personally, I don't believe any organization is perfect, nor do I think that > > any one organization is completely negative. > I think the best work in any movement is done when the people who are most > effected by the issues they face are the people making the decisions and > driving the change ("nothing about us, without us"). > In the National Federation of the blind, we work with our sighted peers in > making those changes, which makes sense if we say that the work we does > being done so that we can compete on a level playing field with our sighted > > peers. > I think that's important, because sometimes we think that we are setting > ourselves in a situation where it is the blind against the sighted, and > that's not very accurate at all. Our parents of blind children are some of > the strongest advocates in our movement, we have sighted members of our > affiliates that are just as loyal as some of our blind members, and we > don't consider them any less or any more of a part of what we do. Further, > I would dare say that sighted students can be just as active members of our > > organization, and we should welcome them with open arms. > There is no denying that there is not a lot of cross-organization > collaboration, and for my part, I think this is unfortunate. I think that > it is possible that one day, maybe sooner than we know, we will see some of > those bridges mended, and meaningful relationships grow from that. > In the meantime, I think it's fine to keep an open mind and connect with > anyone you feel a commonality with in either organization, however that > connection might take root from. > I admire anyone who feels strongly enough about a matter to advocate > for it. Some learn it from their parents, some learn it on their own, some > have learned it from theACB or NFB. > I personally think I gained parts of my philosophy on blindness and > advocacy as I lived and learned, but a good deal of it came from my > experiences in the federation. > One thing that I will say in closing is that I believe we all have the > ability to be the change that we wish to see in the world we live in. Some > of us do it by working with the blind, some of us do it by living our lives > and showing in how we live it how we believe the blind out to be treated. > Obviously, you can and should find your own thing to believe in, but so > long as you find that thing you believe in, it tends to make life much more > of an amazing experience. > > respectfully, > Darian > > On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" > wrote: > >> I only have a couple of points. >> First, I really liked the letter you wrote--I'd just remove the random >> lol. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but older people generally don't >> care for what Lol means and it totally kills your flow here. >> Second, you're focusing a lot on NFB and ACB fighting among themselves. >> This might be true, but there are amazing people in both camps. I've been >> attacked on this list for being part of the ACB, then others don't care >> because whatever I am part of, as long as I do something somehow to help >> it doesn't matter. >> The organizations themselves don't fight, it's mainly the die-hard fans of > >> either camp. While it's not always the case, I've never seen all that much > >> intelligence in the people that attacked me for being part of the ACB to >> begin with, so if they feel they need to scream at me, I'd rather them do >> that than say, try to promote fairness by doing something that would make >> us look worse. >> >> You also kind of sound like you're screaming into the wind here with your >> talk of nothing happening. There is a lot of stuff happening, it's just a >> very slow process. Your influence as well as everyone elses helps >> contribute to that bigger picture, even if it's not obvious right now. >> >> Just my two cents. >> On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Robert William Kingett wrote: >>> Let me know your thoughts. >>> >>> Dear xxx. >>> >>> I hope that I got your name right because I have never ever been good >>> with names. I guess it runs in the family. LOL. >>> >>> I want to introduce myself to you. Sam forwarded me your message and it >>> was really moving that I just had to respond personally. >>> >>> I want to introduce what Sam and I do and then I will comment on what you > >>> have so truthfully written and I also want to give you my thoughts, based > >>> on observation alone. Sam and are both blindness related advocates here >>> in Chicago Illinois. I'm a blind journalist here in Chicago Illinois as >>> well as an advocate for the LGBT community. I'm most known for my >>> journalistic endeavors and I want to tell you something very personal and > >>> profound. >>> >>> I've been blind ever since birth and I grew up in a very abusive >>> environment. When you say the word invisible that really struck a chord >>> with me. Even though I have dealt with the abusive past by turning it >>> into positive advocacy energy that one word brought back several >>> memories. I was invisible in both cases, from the blindness side and the >>> domestic violence side, and, I had to find my own way out of it because >>> the school for the blind I was in just didn't care to get involved with >>> such matters. The unusualDCF investigations never went as far as someone >>> from child services coming to our home to investigate only to deem that >>> everything was fine because, even though I did not like my mom, I covered > >>> up for her. My troubles at home were invisible to everyone, or so I >>> believed. The truth is that they weren't invisible and someone had >>> noticed. Naturally, they just didn't know what to do. >>> >>> In school I also learned to embrace my blindness because I saw the >>> treatment that we received at a young age. When I was 11, I asked the >>> manager at a restaurant why he didn't have any Braille menus, and why he >>> was breaking the law. He didn't have an answer for me, so I began to ask >>> that question at every restaurant I came to. It was an easy question for >>> me to ask. Why? Because I asked my mom why she broke the law all the >>> time. I was, and still am, a bookworm so I had a lot of questions, based >>> on the stuff I read critically. In high school I found my own way out of >>> the abusive home and that's when I truly learned what independence was >>> and so I began to go around school telling other blind kids what it meant > >>> as well. On the academic side of the circle, the Florida school for the >>> deaf and the blind was very good, but anything social skills related, >>> advocacy related, that just flew over their heads. They didn't even tell >>> us what college was going to be like. I had to experience that for >>> myself. I realized that I had a gift and that gift was to string words >>> together to make people listen. I was a writer and I started studying the > >>> extent, the power that my gift held. I began writing proposals for a >>> school newspaper that the school had never had and I soon started my own >>> school newspaper. Even at a blind school, the teachers told me that no >>> one would read it. Kids at Saint Augustine high were crawling to pay for >>> the fourth issue. >>> >>> I do have a point to this entire story so just hang in there! LOL. >>> >>> I wasn't invisible anymore but the blindness community was, and I >>> realized this even more after I got out of high school. I'm sure that you > >>> have heard about the NFB and ACB and AFB and all of the above and many >>> more. If you haven't they are blindness advocacy groups that do their own > >>> parts in different things. You want to talk about invisible? These groups > >>> are invisible. They are just now being heard about in mainstream media >>> regularly. Even now, though, the only people who know about them are >>> blind people. Why? Because there haven't been any loud voices. Okay, >>> correction, there are loud voices but they are quietly yelling, thinking >>> they will not do anything worthwhile by speaking up. You're an example of > >>> a voice that everyone should listen to. These blind groups would listen >>> but there's a huge problem with these groups, and it's a shame to see the > >>> ironic twist, they don't reach out to sighted people for assistance with >>> legal matters, or any other matter, they'd rather stay in their own >>> tents, if you get my drift. Some efforts, not all, but some, are after >>> the media to do stories about them. The NFB and ACB both have a lot to >>> offer but they both don't do a big enough job on their own separately. >>> They do things on a case-by-case basis, and their efforts are to educate >>> the public about the blind and then change comes after the education. >>> Plus, they even fight among one another, and waste energy doing it. All >>> that yelling could have been done to do something better. The ACB people >>> will say they are better, the NFB say that they do the right thing. >>> Never, ever, have they collaborated on anything solid to make a powerful >>> enough standing for change. Education does little good if change isn't >>> implemented but they haven't realized this yet. They want to say that >>> their group is better than the other rather than make efforts to change >>> the community to better serve the blind. >>> >>> That being said, there's a lot of people who are making a difference. >>> >>> For example, I want to point you to Christine. >>> http://www.christineha.com/ >>> >>> She was a blind MasterChef winner last season. >>> >>> There's a car that's driverless, allowing blind people to be mobile like >>> never before... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car >>> >>> Also, the ACB have managed to get the communications and accessibility >>> act signed by Obama, which will allow all electronic devices, even cell >>> phones to be accessible. http://www.acb.org/adp/tv.html. They are also >>> taking strides to make all paper currency accessible to the blind and the > >>> visually impaired. >>> >>> The NFB have done much work on employment. They have done so many things >>> that I'll just give you their website. https://nfb.org/ >>> >>> And people like us, me, Sam, you, and every other small voice out there >>> makes a big difference, even if we don't realize it or see it right away. > >>> For instance, I received an email from a woman whose wives, sisters, and >>> friend I helped out years ago. You know how they say that every action >>> has an equal and opposite reaction? Even though the action isn't seen and > >>> heard for years, it's an action that will be carried out for sure. For >>> example, the FSDB kids of today now have a paper they can write for >>> because of my simple action three years ago. I'm glad that I made that >>> decision. >>> >>> I do think that we should unite to give the blind a much more stable >>> ground to walk on but I'm just one person. Bigger and better companies >>> and blindness organizations have a lot to fight about that are a lot more > >>> important than our wishes and dreams. I'm sorry to say but it's the >>> truth. These blindness groups have a lot of energy to fight each other >>> but that's changing too. That being said, I'm still going to continue to >>> do my small actions of writing and advocacy and standing up for our >>> rights as blind people because I know that somewhere along the line, even > >>> after my death, I will have made a powerful impact on someone's life and >>> have made them a better person because I managed to get people talking >>> because an article was published or because I demanded to see a company >>> officer to straighten out an accessibility barrier, gave them some >>> guidance. It's hard to stand up for the right thing because it seems that > >>> no one is listening. They are listening. I do believe, however, that this > >>> blindness schism is the worst that I've ever seen and it's the dumbest >>> thing ever especially since they both promote inclusion and equality and >>> they can't even include one another. To combat this, the people, not >>> organizations, not the NFB, not the ACB, not the AFB, the people need to >>> change what it means to be blind. We're doing that. You're doing that. >>> You're amazing! We're amazing! Even though we're making progress it will >>> take time, as with all great things. Big things come in small packages >>> and voices and efforts. >>> >>> Your small actions towards your granddaughter will be remembered, and >>> appreciated, and used very well even though they may seem as though they >>> are not getting anywhere at the moment they will blossom into something >>> big. People like us just have to continue to be loud positive vocal >>> people who will both advocate and educate for the blind and the visually >>> impaired. We can't rely on just blindness groups because then we will be >>> sitting on our hands talking, taking no action. >>> >>> I just want to say hell yes you're a good grandmother. She knows Braille; > >>> she's standing up for herself. You're giving her all she needs, even if >>> it's not right now. Even a small ripple can make a big wave. We're making > >>> a big wave, even if that wave won't come until years later. Our small >>> actions will impact the world, and that's why I do what I do. That's why >>> I don't give up because no matter how much arguing goes on, ignorance is >>> displayed, services are denied, etc. I know that I have the power to >>> change things. I'm proud to use my particular power of writing to change >>> the world and to change what it means to be blind. You are changing your >>> granddaughter's world, and someday, she will remember how you changed her > >>> world and then she will change other people's lives and that will be all >>> because of you, xxx, you're an amazing ripple. Continue to make that >>> wave! >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri May 10 14:17:23 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:17:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Brandon, Of course I agree with you, and I think just about everyone would, but this was one of those cases where the people involved in the decision-making had no idea about what the were doing. My question is if students with visual impairments just like everyone else who is considered special Neds, why were their needs left out or not thought about in the same way? I know we can sometimes be baffling for people because one minute we might receive services outlined in am Iep and then might walk right into an honors or AP level class, or might perform just as well as the traditional students academically in general, but that part doesn't make sense to me. On Friday, May 10, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Now this is awesome! > I'm just baffled though, why was this made a problem in the first place? > Sighted kids get taught how to read, why not blind kids? > and I think being a TVI is one of the most difficult jobs in the world and > to have so many kids that you are forced to cut your time to 30 minutes a > child a week is just insanity of the first level! > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Corbbmacc O'Connor (by way of David > Andrews) > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 PM > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA > Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder, President > 9522 Lagersfield Circle • Vienna, VA 22181 > (703) 319-9226 • fschroeder at sks.com > www.nfbv.org > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, tracy.soforenko at verizon.net > > For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional leadership > > ARLINGTON, Va. — Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who > led the advocacy to increase funding for > teachers of blind students, will be recognized > today with the Commonwealth Award by the National > Federation of the Blind of Virginia (NFBV)—the > Commonwealth's largest and oldest organization of > blind people and the leading advocate for braille literacy. > > For years, the Virginia Department of Education > has published Standards of Quality (SOQ), which > define minimum student-teacher ratios and provide > partial salary support to school divisions to > fund special education teachers who work within > Virginia's schools. Unfortunately, unlike all > other disabilities, teachers for the blind were > excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case > loads in many school divisions. Through Delegate > Brink’s advocacy—supported by the National > Federation of the Blind of Virginia—Governor > McDonnell committed to fully fund the state share > for staffing standards for blind and low vision > students. The amended 2012-2014 budget addresses > this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia’s > blind and low vision students. > > "Parents of blind children are frustrated that > their children are not learning the blindness > skills necessary to compete with their sighted > peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric > Schroeder. "We cannot expect students to learn > braille and independent travel when teachers for > the blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 > minutes a week. Because reading and writing is a > fundamental skill for all students, we are > excited that blind students will now receive the > quality education that they deserve." > > Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of > McLean, said, "This is a long overdue step for > the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision students > across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. > The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school districts." > > The award ceremony is open to members of the > media, and will feature remarks from Brink, a > member of the Arlington County School Board, and > advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene > Restaurant (501 N. Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. > > ### > > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 10 14:20:51 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:20:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <-2706227773590570961@unknownmsgid> Well, you know, Brandon, that Braille is slow and inefficient. It was developed in the 19th century to serve the needs of the blind people of that era. Therefore, it is no longer relevant to us in the technology-driven 21st century. Besides, it was invented by a blind student! We know that blind people are incapable of having the creativity to invent anything, so why would we trust a system which was invented by a 19th-century blind French teenager? Moreover, many kids still have some vision. Given all this, it wouldn't be logical to teach kids who still have a little usable vision an inferior system of reading and writing that would in effect make them blind. Even if the kids are totally blind, we can still use the tools of the 21st century as a replacement for that tedious, outdated Braille code: screen readers, talking books, screen magnification software, etc. Right? Wrong! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Now this is awesome! > I'm just baffled though, why was this made a problem in the first place? Sighted kids get taught how to read, why not blind kids? > and I think being a TVI is one of the most difficult jobs in the world and to have so many kids that you are forced to cut your time to 30 minutes a child a week is just insanity of the first level! > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Corbbmacc O'Connor (by way of David Andrews) > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 PM > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students > > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA > Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder, President > 9522 Lagersfield Circle • Vienna, VA 22181 > (703) 319-9226 • fschroeder at sks.com > www.nfbv.org > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, tracy.soforenko at verizon.net > > For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional leadership > > ARLINGTON, Va. — Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who > led the advocacy to increase funding for > teachers of blind students, will be recognized > today with the Commonwealth Award by the National > Federation of the Blind of Virginia (NFBV)—the > Commonwealth's largest and oldest organization of > blind people and the leading advocate for braille literacy. > > For years, the Virginia Department of Education > has published Standards of Quality (SOQ), which > define minimum student-teacher ratios and provide > partial salary support to school divisions to > fund special education teachers who work within > Virginia's schools. Unfortunately, unlike all > other disabilities, teachers for the blind were > excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case > loads in many school divisions. Through Delegate > Brink’s advocacy—supported by the National > Federation of the Blind of Virginia—Governor > McDonnell committed to fully fund the state share > for staffing standards for blind and low vision > students. The amended 2012-2014 budget addresses > this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia’s > blind and low vision students. > > "Parents of blind children are frustrated that > their children are not learning the blindness > skills necessary to compete with their sighted > peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric > Schroeder. "We cannot expect students to learn > braille and independent travel when teachers for > the blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 > minutes a week. Because reading and writing is a > fundamental skill for all students, we are > excited that blind students will now receive the > quality education that they deserve." > > Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of > McLean, said, "This is a long overdue step for > the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision students > across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. > The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school districts." > > The award ceremony is open to members of the > media, and will feature remarks from Brink, a > member of the Arlington County School Board, and > advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene > Restaurant (501 N. Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. > > ### > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 9 14:24:35 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 10:24:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother In-Reply-To: <-1895974968827022538@unknownmsgid> References: <2FF6E0B8-593E-41C4-9418-A02E36FE624C@ymail.com> <019301ce4208$ad3b7690$07b263b0$@gmail.com> <-5266873068869780232@unknownmsgid> <005801ce41ae$4413db30$cc3b9190$@gmail.com> <2346767950357188835@unknownmsgid> <005a01ce41bb$85edb140$91c913c0$@gmail.com> <3200FE52-7975-44BC-BAB0-5DCD42EC02D2@gmail.com> <517AE189.7090906@gmail.com> <517AEB35.8010607@tysdomain.com> <04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> <003801ce4cb6$b4a0f7d0$1de2e770$@gmail.com> <-1895974968827022538@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <004c01ce4cc0$eeb20900$cc161b00$@gmail.com> Indeed. I agree. Thanks man. You going to be at convention? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher nusbaum Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:03 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother That's great to hear!! In my opinion, anyone can advocate in his/her own way, whether as a career or as a volunteer. Justin, as you know, much of our advocacy work in the Federation is done by Federationists who do it on a volunteer basis. So, don't feel like you can't advocate for the rights of the blind and other people with disabilities without doing it as your job. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 9:27 AM, justin williams wrote: > I am also looking to do some advocating. Not as a lawyer, but as I > make the journey towards obtaining my phd, it will included advocating > for persons with disabilities, or other focused groups who need > assistance. That won't be my full time job, but it will be a part of > it. I would love to help ADA lawyers with my advocacy skills, and with my knowledge on the ADA. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga > Schreiber > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 1:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother > > Hi Mr. Robert, this is Helga Schreiber. I just wanted to say that the > letter > > that you wrote it says many true statements. In fact, I really like > the part > > where you say you advocate for people's rights by using your gifts as > a Journalist. I actually believe that God gives all of us a gift since > birth, and when you say that you say that you want to help people by > using your skills as a Journalist even though they say that nobody > will read your journals, you ignore them and you stood firm in yor > goals to do so. As a matter of fact, I really like that, when someone > has that kind of courage and faith. I'm actually a college blind > freshman student, and I'm studying in order to become a Lawyer, so > that I could advocate for people's rights as > > well. Just to let you know, I don't want to become a Lawyer just for > the money; the reason I want to become a Lawyer is because I want to > help people. I truly believe that God created me and all of us for a > purpose, and > > that we dididn't came to this earth as an accident; instead, we came > to this > > earth in order to accomplish something, and leave a legacy for our > generations to come. In fact, Just to let you know, I just became > blind five > > years ago, due to many surgeries, but the news ofbecoming blind didn't > stop me; rather, it made my spirit rejoys in order to fulfil the > purpose that God > > put on my heart; to be come a Lawyer in order to advocate for others. > Actually, I want to help the elderly, disabled, immigrants, and people > in general with their rights. Also, I actually have many issues with > my college, due to the fact, that they don't provide the help that > Visually impaired students need; I'm actually the only blind student > in my college, but what happen if another blind student comes to the > college, are the college going to provide the help they need with > Braille and tecknology? I really like reading in Braille, but my > college sdoesn't provide me my materials in Braill at all. Actually, > my life story is and college experiences stories are very long, but if > you want to hear them you're very welcome! I'm actually a Christian, > and I believe that we should never give up or quit in our goalls; > rather we should continue going. I actually like to listen to music, > but I specially like to listen Christian music, and I like to listen > to many artists, but one particular Christian singer that I like is > called Chris Tomlin. And one of of his songs that really encourage me > and gives me faith to continue is called "Whom Shall I Fear" I really > like this song, and I hope that you like it as well. By the way. your > letter > > was very encouraging for me a lot Mr. Robert. God bless! and keep > using your > > gift in order to reach people and advocate for their rights. Hope to > talk to > > you soon! :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darian Smith > Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother > > Hi all, > So I am no doubt catching this thread on the tail-end, but I still > want to react to the letter. > > Firstly, I appreciate your sharing this with all of us. The Nabs-L list > > is a community, one with many many eyes reading what we write, but a > community all the same. > No doubt we all have different views on a particular subject and > certainly different views on blindness and the NFB, as well as the > various organizations that feel that for their part they are doing > great things to change lives for the blind. > > Personally, I don't believe any organization is perfect, nor do I > think that > > any one organization is completely negative. > I think the best work in any movement is done when the people who are > most effected by the issues they face are the people making the > decisions and driving the change ("nothing about us, without us"). > In the National Federation of the blind, we work with our sighted > peers in making those changes, which makes sense if we say that the > work we does being done so that we can compete on a level playing > field with our sighted > > peers. > I think that's important, because sometimes we think that we are > setting ourselves in a situation where it is the blind against the > sighted, and that's not very accurate at all. Our parents of blind > children are some of the strongest advocates in our movement, we have > sighted members of our affiliates that are just as loyal as some of > our blind members, and we don't consider them any less or any more of > a part of what we do. Further, I would dare say that sighted students > can be just as active members of our > > organization, and we should welcome them with open arms. > There is no denying that there is not a lot of cross-organization > collaboration, and for my part, I think this is unfortunate. I think > that it is possible that one day, maybe sooner than we know, we will > see some of those bridges mended, and meaningful relationships grow from that. > In the meantime, I think it's fine to keep an open mind and connect > with anyone you feel a commonality with in either organization, > however that connection might take root from. > I admire anyone who feels strongly enough about a matter to > advocate for it. Some learn it from their parents, some learn it on > their own, some have learned it from theACB or NFB. > I personally think I gained parts of my philosophy on blindness and > advocacy as I lived and learned, but a good deal of it came from my > experiences in the federation. > One thing that I will say in closing is that I believe we all have > the ability to be the change that we wish to see in the world we live > in. Some of us do it by working with the blind, some of us do it by > living our lives and showing in how we live it how we believe the blind out to be treated. > Obviously, you can and should find your own thing to believe in, but > so long as you find that thing you believe in, it tends to make life > much more of an amazing experience. > > respectfully, > Darian > > On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" > > wrote: > >> I only have a couple of points. >> First, I really liked the letter you wrote--I'd just remove the >> random lol. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but older people >> generally don't care for what Lol means and it totally kills your flow here. >> Second, you're focusing a lot on NFB and ACB fighting among themselves. >> This might be true, but there are amazing people in both camps. I've >> been attacked on this list for being part of the ACB, then others >> don't care because whatever I am part of, as long as I do something >> somehow to help it doesn't matter. >> The organizations themselves don't fight, it's mainly the die-hard >> fans of > >> either camp. While it's not always the case, I've never seen all that >> much > >> intelligence in the people that attacked me for being part of the ACB >> to begin with, so if they feel they need to scream at me, I'd rather >> them do that than say, try to promote fairness by doing something >> that would make us look worse. >> >> You also kind of sound like you're screaming into the wind here with >> your talk of nothing happening. There is a lot of stuff happening, >> it's just a very slow process. Your influence as well as everyone >> elses helps contribute to that bigger picture, even if it's not obvious right now. >> >> Just my two cents. >> On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Robert William Kingett wrote: >>> Let me know your thoughts. >>> >>> Dear xxx. >>> >>> I hope that I got your name right because I have never ever been >>> good with names. I guess it runs in the family. LOL. >>> >>> I want to introduce myself to you. Sam forwarded me your message and >>> it was really moving that I just had to respond personally. >>> >>> I want to introduce what Sam and I do and then I will comment on >>> what you > >>> have so truthfully written and I also want to give you my thoughts, >>> based > >>> on observation alone. Sam and are both blindness related advocates >>> here in Chicago Illinois. I'm a blind journalist here in Chicago >>> Illinois as well as an advocate for the LGBT community. I'm most >>> known for my journalistic endeavors and I want to tell you something >>> very personal and > >>> profound. >>> >>> I've been blind ever since birth and I grew up in a very abusive >>> environment. When you say the word invisible that really struck a >>> chord with me. Even though I have dealt with the abusive past by >>> turning it into positive advocacy energy that one word brought back >>> several memories. I was invisible in both cases, from the blindness >>> side and the domestic violence side, and, I had to find my own way >>> out of it because the school for the blind I was in just didn't care >>> to get involved with such matters. The unusualDCF investigations >>> never went as far as someone from child services coming to our home >>> to investigate only to deem that everything was fine because, even >>> though I did not like my mom, I covered > >>> up for her. My troubles at home were invisible to everyone, or so I >>> believed. The truth is that they weren't invisible and someone had >>> noticed. Naturally, they just didn't know what to do. >>> >>> In school I also learned to embrace my blindness because I saw the >>> treatment that we received at a young age. When I was 11, I asked >>> the manager at a restaurant why he didn't have any Braille menus, >>> and why he was breaking the law. He didn't have an answer for me, so >>> I began to ask that question at every restaurant I came to. It was >>> an easy question for me to ask. Why? Because I asked my mom why she >>> broke the law all the time. I was, and still am, a bookworm so I had >>> a lot of questions, based on the stuff I read critically. In high >>> school I found my own way out of the abusive home and that's when I >>> truly learned what independence was and so I began to go around >>> school telling other blind kids what it meant > >>> as well. On the academic side of the circle, the Florida school for >>> the deaf and the blind was very good, but anything social skills >>> related, advocacy related, that just flew over their heads. They >>> didn't even tell us what college was going to be like. I had to >>> experience that for myself. I realized that I had a gift and that >>> gift was to string words together to make people listen. I was a >>> writer and I started studying the > >>> extent, the power that my gift held. I began writing proposals for a >>> school newspaper that the school had never had and I soon started my >>> own school newspaper. Even at a blind school, the teachers told me >>> that no one would read it. Kids at Saint Augustine high were >>> crawling to pay for the fourth issue. >>> >>> I do have a point to this entire story so just hang in there! LOL. >>> >>> I wasn't invisible anymore but the blindness community was, and I >>> realized this even more after I got out of high school. I'm sure >>> that you > >>> have heard about the NFB and ACB and AFB and all of the above and >>> many more. If you haven't they are blindness advocacy groups that do >>> their own > >>> parts in different things. You want to talk about invisible? These >>> groups > >>> are invisible. They are just now being heard about in mainstream >>> media regularly. Even now, though, the only people who know about >>> them are blind people. Why? Because there haven't been any loud >>> voices. Okay, correction, there are loud voices but they are quietly >>> yelling, thinking they will not do anything worthwhile by speaking >>> up. You're an example of > >>> a voice that everyone should listen to. These blind groups would >>> listen but there's a huge problem with these groups, and it's a >>> shame to see the > >>> ironic twist, they don't reach out to sighted people for assistance >>> with legal matters, or any other matter, they'd rather stay in their >>> own tents, if you get my drift. Some efforts, not all, but some, are >>> after the media to do stories about them. The NFB and ACB both have >>> a lot to offer but they both don't do a big enough job on their own separately. >>> They do things on a case-by-case basis, and their efforts are to >>> educate the public about the blind and then change comes after the education. >>> Plus, they even fight among one another, and waste energy doing it. >>> All that yelling could have been done to do something better. The >>> ACB people will say they are better, the NFB say that they do the right thing. >>> Never, ever, have they collaborated on anything solid to make a >>> powerful enough standing for change. Education does little good if >>> change isn't implemented but they haven't realized this yet. They >>> want to say that their group is better than the other rather than >>> make efforts to change the community to better serve the blind. >>> >>> That being said, there's a lot of people who are making a difference. >>> >>> For example, I want to point you to Christine. >>> http://www.christineha.com/ >>> >>> She was a blind MasterChef winner last season. >>> >>> There's a car that's driverless, allowing blind people to be mobile >>> like never before... >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car >>> >>> Also, the ACB have managed to get the communications and >>> accessibility act signed by Obama, which will allow all electronic >>> devices, even cell phones to be accessible. >>> http://www.acb.org/adp/tv.html. They are also taking strides to make >>> all paper currency accessible to the blind and the > >>> visually impaired. >>> >>> The NFB have done much work on employment. They have done so many >>> things that I'll just give you their website. https://nfb.org/ >>> >>> And people like us, me, Sam, you, and every other small voice out >>> there makes a big difference, even if we don't realize it or see it right away. > >>> For instance, I received an email from a woman whose wives, sisters, >>> and friend I helped out years ago. You know how they say that every >>> action has an equal and opposite reaction? Even though the action >>> isn't seen and > >>> heard for years, it's an action that will be carried out for sure. >>> For example, the FSDB kids of today now have a paper they can write >>> for because of my simple action three years ago. I'm glad that I >>> made that decision. >>> >>> I do think that we should unite to give the blind a much more stable >>> ground to walk on but I'm just one person. Bigger and better >>> companies and blindness organizations have a lot to fight about that >>> are a lot more > >>> important than our wishes and dreams. I'm sorry to say but it's the >>> truth. These blindness groups have a lot of energy to fight each >>> other but that's changing too. That being said, I'm still going to >>> continue to do my small actions of writing and advocacy and standing >>> up for our rights as blind people because I know that somewhere >>> along the line, even > >>> after my death, I will have made a powerful impact on someone's life >>> and have made them a better person because I managed to get people >>> talking because an article was published or because I demanded to >>> see a company officer to straighten out an accessibility barrier, >>> gave them some guidance. It's hard to stand up for the right thing >>> because it seems that > >>> no one is listening. They are listening. I do believe, however, that >>> this > >>> blindness schism is the worst that I've ever seen and it's the >>> dumbest thing ever especially since they both promote inclusion and >>> equality and they can't even include one another. To combat this, >>> the people, not organizations, not the NFB, not the ACB, not the >>> AFB, the people need to change what it means to be blind. We're doing that. You're doing that. >>> You're amazing! We're amazing! Even though we're making progress it >>> will take time, as with all great things. Big things come in small >>> packages and voices and efforts. >>> >>> Your small actions towards your granddaughter will be remembered, >>> and appreciated, and used very well even though they may seem as >>> though they are not getting anywhere at the moment they will blossom >>> into something big. People like us just have to continue to be loud >>> positive vocal people who will both advocate and educate for the >>> blind and the visually impaired. We can't rely on just blindness >>> groups because then we will be sitting on our hands talking, taking no action. >>> >>> I just want to say hell yes you're a good grandmother. She knows >>> Braille; > >>> she's standing up for herself. You're giving her all she needs, even >>> if it's not right now. Even a small ripple can make a big wave. >>> We're making > >>> a big wave, even if that wave won't come until years later. Our >>> small actions will impact the world, and that's why I do what I do. >>> That's why I don't give up because no matter how much arguing goes >>> on, ignorance is displayed, services are denied, etc. I know that I >>> have the power to change things. I'm proud to use my particular >>> power of writing to change the world and to change what it means to >>> be blind. You are changing your granddaughter's world, and someday, >>> she will remember how you changed her > >>> world and then she will change other people's lives and that will be >>> all because of you, xxx, you're an amazing ripple. Continue to make >>> that wave! >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomai >>> n.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >> he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail >> .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40 > hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 9 14:27:25 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 10:27:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students In-Reply-To: <-2706227773590570961@unknownmsgid> References: <-2706227773590570961@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <004e01ce4cc1$540f21c0$fc2d6540$@gmail.com> I think that is called punctaform. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher nusbaum Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:21 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students Well, you know, Brandon, that Braille is slow and inefficient. It was developed in the 19th century to serve the needs of the blind people of that era. Therefore, it is no longer relevant to us in the technology-driven 21st century. Besides, it was invented by a blind student! We know that blind people are incapable of having the creativity to invent anything, so why would we trust a system which was invented by a 19th-century blind French teenager? Moreover, many kids still have some vision. Given all this, it wouldn't be logical to teach kids who still have a little usable vision an inferior system of reading and writing that would in effect make them blind. Even if the kids are totally blind, we can still use the tools of the 21st century as a replacement for that tedious, outdated Braille code: screen readers, talking books, screen magnification software, etc. Right? Wrong! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Now this is awesome! > I'm just baffled though, why was this made a problem in the first place? Sighted kids get taught how to read, why not blind kids? > and I think being a TVI is one of the most difficult jobs in the world and to have so many kids that you are forced to cut your time to 30 minutes a child a week is just insanity of the first level! > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Corbbmacc O'Connor (by way of David > Andrews) > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 PM > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder, > President > 9522 Lagersfield Circle . Vienna, VA 22181 > (703) 319-9226 . fschroeder at sks.com > www.nfbv.org > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, tracy.soforenko at verizon.net > > For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its > blind K-12 students Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional > leadership > > ARLINGTON, Va. - Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who led the advocacy to > increase funding for teachers of blind students, will be recognized > today with the Commonwealth Award by the National Federation of the > Blind of Virginia (NFBV)-the Commonwealth's largest and oldest > organization of blind people and the leading advocate for braille > literacy. > > For years, the Virginia Department of Education has published > Standards of Quality (SOQ), which define minimum student-teacher > ratios and provide partial salary support to school divisions to fund > special education teachers who work within Virginia's schools. > Unfortunately, unlike all other disabilities, teachers for the blind > were excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case loads in many > school divisions. Through Delegate Brink's advocacy-supported by the > National Federation of the Blind of Virginia-Governor McDonnell > committed to fully fund the state share for staffing standards for > blind and low vision students. The amended 2012-2014 budget addresses > this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia's blind and low vision > students. > > "Parents of blind children are frustrated that their children are not > learning the blindness skills necessary to compete with their sighted > peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric Schroeder. "We cannot expect > students to learn braille and independent travel when teachers for the > blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 minutes a week. Because > reading and writing is a fundamental skill for all students, we are > excited that blind students will now receive the quality education > that they deserve." > > Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of McLean, said, "This > is a long overdue step for the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision > students across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. > The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school districts." > > The award ceremony is open to members of the media, and will feature > remarks from Brink, a member of the Arlington County School Board, and > advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene Restaurant (501 N. > Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. > > ### > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 10 14:27:22 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:27:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students In-Reply-To: <004e01ce4cc1$540f21c0$fc2d6540$@gmail.com> References: <-2706227773590570961@unknownmsgid> <004e01ce4cc1$540f21c0$fc2d6540$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <-1645005365919158421@unknownmsgid> What do you mean? What is punctaform? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 10:25 AM, justin williams wrote: > I think that is called punctaform. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher > nusbaum > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:21 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > > Well, you know, Brandon, that Braille is slow and inefficient. It was > developed in the 19th century to serve the needs of the blind people of that > era. Therefore, it is no longer relevant to us in the technology-driven 21st > century. Besides, it was invented by a blind student! We know that blind > people are incapable of having the creativity to invent anything, so why > would we trust a system which was invented by a 19th-century blind French > teenager? Moreover, many kids still have some vision. Given all this, it > wouldn't be logical to teach kids who still have a little usable vision an > inferior system of reading and writing that would in effect make them blind. > Even if the kids are totally blind, we can still use the tools of the 21st > century as a replacement for that tedious, outdated Braille code: screen > readers, talking books, screen magnification software, etc. Right? > Wrong! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 10, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > >> Now this is awesome! >> I'm just baffled though, why was this made a problem in the first place? > Sighted kids get taught how to read, why not blind kids? >> and I think being a TVI is one of the most difficult jobs in the world and > to have so many kids that you are forced to cut your time to 30 minutes a > child a week is just insanity of the first level! >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Corbbmacc O'Connor (by way of David >> Andrews) >> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 PM >> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the >> education of its blind K-12 students >> >> >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder, >> President >> 9522 Lagersfield Circle . Vienna, VA 22181 >> (703) 319-9226 . fschroeder at sks.com >> www.nfbv.org >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, tracy.soforenko at verizon.net >> >> For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its >> blind K-12 students Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional >> leadership >> >> ARLINGTON, Va. - Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who led the advocacy to >> increase funding for teachers of blind students, will be recognized >> today with the Commonwealth Award by the National Federation of the >> Blind of Virginia (NFBV)-the Commonwealth's largest and oldest >> organization of blind people and the leading advocate for braille >> literacy. >> >> For years, the Virginia Department of Education has published >> Standards of Quality (SOQ), which define minimum student-teacher >> ratios and provide partial salary support to school divisions to fund >> special education teachers who work within Virginia's schools. >> Unfortunately, unlike all other disabilities, teachers for the blind >> were excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case loads in many >> school divisions. Through Delegate Brink's advocacy-supported by the >> National Federation of the Blind of Virginia-Governor McDonnell >> committed to fully fund the state share for staffing standards for >> blind and low vision students. The amended 2012-2014 budget addresses >> this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia's blind and low vision >> students. >> >> "Parents of blind children are frustrated that their children are not >> learning the blindness skills necessary to compete with their sighted >> peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric Schroeder. "We cannot expect >> students to learn braille and independent travel when teachers for the >> blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 minutes a week. Because >> reading and writing is a fundamental skill for all students, we are >> excited that blind students will now receive the quality education >> that they deserve." >> >> Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of McLean, said, "This >> is a long overdue step for the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision >> students across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. >> The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school districts." >> >> The award ceremony is open to members of the media, and will feature >> remarks from Brink, a member of the Arlington County School Board, and >> advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene Restaurant (501 N. >> Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. >> >> ### >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% >> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 10 14:25:59 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:25:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother In-Reply-To: <004c01ce4cc0$eeb20900$cc161b00$@gmail.com> References: <2FF6E0B8-593E-41C4-9418-A02E36FE624C@ymail.com> <019301ce4208$ad3b7690$07b263b0$@gmail.com> <-5266873068869780232@unknownmsgid> <005801ce41ae$4413db30$cc3b9190$@gmail.com> <2346767950357188835@unknownmsgid> <005a01ce41bb$85edb140$91c913c0$@gmail.com> <3200FE52-7975-44BC-BAB0-5DCD42EC02D2@gmail.com> <517AE189.7090906@gmail.com> <517AEB35.8010607@tysdomain.com> <04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> <003801ce4cb6$b4a0f7d0$1de2e770$@gmail.com> <-1895974968827022538@unknownmsgid> <004c01ce4cc0$eeb20900$cc161b00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7251795683791349492@unknownmsgid> Yes I will!!!! See you in Orlando!! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 10:24 AM, justin williams wrote: > Indeed. I agree. Thanks man. You going to be at convention? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher > nusbaum > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:03 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother > > That's great to hear!! In my opinion, anyone can advocate in his/her own > way, whether as a career or as a volunteer. Justin, as you know, much of our > advocacy work in the Federation is done by Federationists who do it on a > volunteer basis. So, don't feel like you can't advocate for the rights of > the blind and other people with disabilities without doing it as your job. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 10, 2013, at 9:27 AM, justin williams > wrote: > >> I am also looking to do some advocating. Not as a lawyer, but as I >> make the journey towards obtaining my phd, it will included advocating >> for persons with disabilities, or other focused groups who need >> assistance. That won't be my full time job, but it will be a part of >> it. I would love to help ADA lawyers with my advocacy skills, and with > my knowledge on the ADA. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga >> Schreiber >> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 1:26 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother >> >> Hi Mr. Robert, this is Helga Schreiber. I just wanted to say that the >> letter >> >> that you wrote it says many true statements. In fact, I really like >> the part >> >> where you say you advocate for people's rights by using your gifts as >> a Journalist. I actually believe that God gives all of us a gift since >> birth, and when you say that you say that you want to help people by >> using your skills as a Journalist even though they say that nobody >> will read your journals, you ignore them and you stood firm in yor >> goals to do so. As a matter of fact, I really like that, when someone >> has that kind of courage and faith. I'm actually a college blind >> freshman student, and I'm studying in order to become a Lawyer, so >> that I could advocate for people's rights as >> >> well. Just to let you know, I don't want to become a Lawyer just for >> the money; the reason I want to become a Lawyer is because I want to >> help people. I truly believe that God created me and all of us for a >> purpose, and >> >> that we dididn't came to this earth as an accident; instead, we came >> to this >> >> earth in order to accomplish something, and leave a legacy for our >> generations to come. In fact, Just to let you know, I just became >> blind five >> >> years ago, due to many surgeries, but the news ofbecoming blind didn't >> stop me; rather, it made my spirit rejoys in order to fulfil the >> purpose that God >> >> put on my heart; to be come a Lawyer in order to advocate for others. >> Actually, I want to help the elderly, disabled, immigrants, and people >> in general with their rights. Also, I actually have many issues with >> my college, due to the fact, that they don't provide the help that >> Visually impaired students need; I'm actually the only blind student >> in my college, but what happen if another blind student comes to the >> college, are the college going to provide the help they need with >> Braille and tecknology? I really like reading in Braille, but my >> college sdoesn't provide me my materials in Braill at all. Actually, >> my life story is and college experiences stories are very long, but if >> you want to hear them you're very welcome! I'm actually a Christian, >> and I believe that we should never give up or quit in our goalls; >> rather we should continue going. I actually like to listen to music, >> but I specially like to listen Christian music, and I like to listen >> to many artists, but one particular Christian singer that I like is >> called Chris Tomlin. And one of of his songs that really encourage me >> and gives me faith to continue is called "Whom Shall I Fear" I really >> like this song, and I hope that you like it as well. By the way. your >> letter >> >> was very encouraging for me a lot Mr. Robert. God bless! and keep >> using your >> >> gift in order to reach people and advocate for their rights. Hope to >> talk to >> >> you soon! :) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Darian Smith >> Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:14 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother >> >> Hi all, >> So I am no doubt catching this thread on the tail-end, but I still >> want to react to the letter. >> >> Firstly, I appreciate your sharing this with all of us. The Nabs-L > list >> >> is a community, one with many many eyes reading what we write, but a >> community all the same. >> No doubt we all have different views on a particular subject and >> certainly different views on blindness and the NFB, as well as the >> various organizations that feel that for their part they are doing >> great things to change lives for the blind. >> >> Personally, I don't believe any organization is perfect, nor do I >> think that >> >> any one organization is completely negative. >> I think the best work in any movement is done when the people who are >> most effected by the issues they face are the people making the >> decisions and driving the change ("nothing about us, without us"). >> In the National Federation of the blind, we work with our sighted >> peers in making those changes, which makes sense if we say that the >> work we does being done so that we can compete on a level playing >> field with our sighted >> >> peers. >> I think that's important, because sometimes we think that we are >> setting ourselves in a situation where it is the blind against the >> sighted, and that's not very accurate at all. Our parents of blind >> children are some of the strongest advocates in our movement, we have >> sighted members of our affiliates that are just as loyal as some of >> our blind members, and we don't consider them any less or any more of >> a part of what we do. Further, I would dare say that sighted students >> can be just as active members of our >> >> organization, and we should welcome them with open arms. >> There is no denying that there is not a lot of cross-organization >> collaboration, and for my part, I think this is unfortunate. I think >> that it is possible that one day, maybe sooner than we know, we will >> see some of those bridges mended, and meaningful relationships grow from > that. >> In the meantime, I think it's fine to keep an open mind and connect >> with anyone you feel a commonality with in either organization, >> however that connection might take root from. >> I admire anyone who feels strongly enough about a matter to >> advocate for it. Some learn it from their parents, some learn it on >> their own, some have learned it from theACB or NFB. >> I personally think I gained parts of my philosophy on blindness and >> advocacy as I lived and learned, but a good deal of it came from my >> experiences in the federation. >> One thing that I will say in closing is that I believe we all have >> the ability to be the change that we wish to see in the world we live >> in. Some of us do it by working with the blind, some of us do it by >> living our lives and showing in how we live it how we believe the blind > out to be treated. >> Obviously, you can and should find your own thing to believe in, but >> so long as you find that thing you believe in, it tends to make life >> much more of an amazing experience. >> >> respectfully, >> Darian >> >> On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" >> >> wrote: >> >>> I only have a couple of points. >>> First, I really liked the letter you wrote--I'd just remove the >>> random lol. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but older people >>> generally don't care for what Lol means and it totally kills your flow > here. >>> Second, you're focusing a lot on NFB and ACB fighting among themselves. >>> This might be true, but there are amazing people in both camps. I've >>> been attacked on this list for being part of the ACB, then others >>> don't care because whatever I am part of, as long as I do something >>> somehow to help it doesn't matter. >>> The organizations themselves don't fight, it's mainly the die-hard >>> fans of >> >>> either camp. While it's not always the case, I've never seen all that >>> much >> >>> intelligence in the people that attacked me for being part of the ACB >>> to begin with, so if they feel they need to scream at me, I'd rather >>> them do that than say, try to promote fairness by doing something >>> that would make us look worse. >>> >>> You also kind of sound like you're screaming into the wind here with >>> your talk of nothing happening. There is a lot of stuff happening, >>> it's just a very slow process. Your influence as well as everyone >>> elses helps contribute to that bigger picture, even if it's not obvious > right now. >>> >>> Just my two cents. >>> On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Robert William Kingett wrote: >>>> Let me know your thoughts. >>>> >>>> Dear xxx. >>>> >>>> I hope that I got your name right because I have never ever been >>>> good with names. I guess it runs in the family. LOL. >>>> >>>> I want to introduce myself to you. Sam forwarded me your message and >>>> it was really moving that I just had to respond personally. >>>> >>>> I want to introduce what Sam and I do and then I will comment on >>>> what you >> >>>> have so truthfully written and I also want to give you my thoughts, >>>> based >> >>>> on observation alone. Sam and are both blindness related advocates >>>> here in Chicago Illinois. I'm a blind journalist here in Chicago >>>> Illinois as well as an advocate for the LGBT community. I'm most >>>> known for my journalistic endeavors and I want to tell you something >>>> very personal and >> >>>> profound. >>>> >>>> I've been blind ever since birth and I grew up in a very abusive >>>> environment. When you say the word invisible that really struck a >>>> chord with me. Even though I have dealt with the abusive past by >>>> turning it into positive advocacy energy that one word brought back >>>> several memories. I was invisible in both cases, from the blindness >>>> side and the domestic violence side, and, I had to find my own way >>>> out of it because the school for the blind I was in just didn't care >>>> to get involved with such matters. The unusualDCF investigations >>>> never went as far as someone from child services coming to our home >>>> to investigate only to deem that everything was fine because, even >>>> though I did not like my mom, I covered >> >>>> up for her. My troubles at home were invisible to everyone, or so I >>>> believed. The truth is that they weren't invisible and someone had >>>> noticed. Naturally, they just didn't know what to do. >>>> >>>> In school I also learned to embrace my blindness because I saw the >>>> treatment that we received at a young age. When I was 11, I asked >>>> the manager at a restaurant why he didn't have any Braille menus, >>>> and why he was breaking the law. He didn't have an answer for me, so >>>> I began to ask that question at every restaurant I came to. It was >>>> an easy question for me to ask. Why? Because I asked my mom why she >>>> broke the law all the time. I was, and still am, a bookworm so I had >>>> a lot of questions, based on the stuff I read critically. In high >>>> school I found my own way out of the abusive home and that's when I >>>> truly learned what independence was and so I began to go around >>>> school telling other blind kids what it meant >> >>>> as well. On the academic side of the circle, the Florida school for >>>> the deaf and the blind was very good, but anything social skills >>>> related, advocacy related, that just flew over their heads. They >>>> didn't even tell us what college was going to be like. I had to >>>> experience that for myself. I realized that I had a gift and that >>>> gift was to string words together to make people listen. I was a >>>> writer and I started studying the >> >>>> extent, the power that my gift held. I began writing proposals for a >>>> school newspaper that the school had never had and I soon started my >>>> own school newspaper. Even at a blind school, the teachers told me >>>> that no one would read it. Kids at Saint Augustine high were >>>> crawling to pay for the fourth issue. >>>> >>>> I do have a point to this entire story so just hang in there! LOL. >>>> >>>> I wasn't invisible anymore but the blindness community was, and I >>>> realized this even more after I got out of high school. I'm sure >>>> that you >> >>>> have heard about the NFB and ACB and AFB and all of the above and >>>> many more. If you haven't they are blindness advocacy groups that do >>>> their own >> >>>> parts in different things. You want to talk about invisible? These >>>> groups >> >>>> are invisible. They are just now being heard about in mainstream >>>> media regularly. Even now, though, the only people who know about >>>> them are blind people. Why? Because there haven't been any loud >>>> voices. Okay, correction, there are loud voices but they are quietly >>>> yelling, thinking they will not do anything worthwhile by speaking >>>> up. You're an example of >> >>>> a voice that everyone should listen to. These blind groups would >>>> listen but there's a huge problem with these groups, and it's a >>>> shame to see the >> >>>> ironic twist, they don't reach out to sighted people for assistance >>>> with legal matters, or any other matter, they'd rather stay in their >>>> own tents, if you get my drift. Some efforts, not all, but some, are >>>> after the media to do stories about them. The NFB and ACB both have >>>> a lot to offer but they both don't do a big enough job on their own > separately. >>>> They do things on a case-by-case basis, and their efforts are to >>>> educate the public about the blind and then change comes after the > education. >>>> Plus, they even fight among one another, and waste energy doing it. >>>> All that yelling could have been done to do something better. The >>>> ACB people will say they are better, the NFB say that they do the right > thing. >>>> Never, ever, have they collaborated on anything solid to make a >>>> powerful enough standing for change. Education does little good if >>>> change isn't implemented but they haven't realized this yet. They >>>> want to say that their group is better than the other rather than >>>> make efforts to change the community to better serve the blind. >>>> >>>> That being said, there's a lot of people who are making a difference. >>>> >>>> For example, I want to point you to Christine. >>>> http://www.christineha.com/ >>>> >>>> She was a blind MasterChef winner last season. >>>> >>>> There's a car that's driverless, allowing blind people to be mobile >>>> like never before... >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car >>>> >>>> Also, the ACB have managed to get the communications and >>>> accessibility act signed by Obama, which will allow all electronic >>>> devices, even cell phones to be accessible. >>>> http://www.acb.org/adp/tv.html. They are also taking strides to make >>>> all paper currency accessible to the blind and the >> >>>> visually impaired. >>>> >>>> The NFB have done much work on employment. They have done so many >>>> things that I'll just give you their website. https://nfb.org/ >>>> >>>> And people like us, me, Sam, you, and every other small voice out >>>> there makes a big difference, even if we don't realize it or see it > right away. >> >>>> For instance, I received an email from a woman whose wives, sisters, >>>> and friend I helped out years ago. You know how they say that every >>>> action has an equal and opposite reaction? Even though the action >>>> isn't seen and >> >>>> heard for years, it's an action that will be carried out for sure. >>>> For example, the FSDB kids of today now have a paper they can write >>>> for because of my simple action three years ago. I'm glad that I >>>> made that decision. >>>> >>>> I do think that we should unite to give the blind a much more stable >>>> ground to walk on but I'm just one person. Bigger and better >>>> companies and blindness organizations have a lot to fight about that >>>> are a lot more >> >>>> important than our wishes and dreams. I'm sorry to say but it's the >>>> truth. These blindness groups have a lot of energy to fight each >>>> other but that's changing too. That being said, I'm still going to >>>> continue to do my small actions of writing and advocacy and standing >>>> up for our rights as blind people because I know that somewhere >>>> along the line, even >> >>>> after my death, I will have made a powerful impact on someone's life >>>> and have made them a better person because I managed to get people >>>> talking because an article was published or because I demanded to >>>> see a company officer to straighten out an accessibility barrier, >>>> gave them some guidance. It's hard to stand up for the right thing >>>> because it seems that >> >>>> no one is listening. They are listening. I do believe, however, that >>>> this >> >>>> blindness schism is the worst that I've ever seen and it's the >>>> dumbest thing ever especially since they both promote inclusion and >>>> equality and they can't even include one another. To combat this, >>>> the people, not organizations, not the NFB, not the ACB, not the >>>> AFB, the people need to change what it means to be blind. We're doing > that. You're doing that. >>>> You're amazing! We're amazing! Even though we're making progress it >>>> will take time, as with all great things. Big things come in small >>>> packages and voices and efforts. >>>> >>>> Your small actions towards your granddaughter will be remembered, >>>> and appreciated, and used very well even though they may seem as >>>> though they are not getting anywhere at the moment they will blossom >>>> into something big. People like us just have to continue to be loud >>>> positive vocal people who will both advocate and educate for the >>>> blind and the visually impaired. We can't rely on just blindness >>>> groups because then we will be sitting on our hands talking, taking no > action. >>>> >>>> I just want to say hell yes you're a good grandmother. She knows >>>> Braille; >> >>>> she's standing up for herself. You're giving her all she needs, even >>>> if it's not right now. Even a small ripple can make a big wave. >>>> We're making >> >>>> a big wave, even if that wave won't come until years later. Our >>>> small actions will impact the world, and that's why I do what I do. >>>> That's why I don't give up because no matter how much arguing goes >>>> on, ignorance is displayed, services are denied, etc. I know that I >>>> have the power to change things. I'm proud to use my particular >>>> power of writing to change the world and to change what it means to >>>> be blind. You are changing your granddaughter's world, and someday, >>>> she will remember how you changed her >> >>>> world and then she will change other people's lives and that will be >>>> all because of you, xxx, you're an amazing ripple. Continue to make >>>> that wave! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomai >>>> n.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>> he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail >>> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40 >> hotmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 9 14:42:31 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 10:42:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students In-Reply-To: <-1645005365919158421@unknownmsgid> References: <-2706227773590570961@unknownmsgid> <004e01ce4cc1$540f21c0$fc2d6540$@gmail.com> <-1645005365919158421@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <005201ce4cc3$70499fd0$50dcdf70$@gmail.com> The early form of braille you folks were talking about. I think that is what it is called. I'm not sure if that is the exact version, but punctaform is one of the braille versions which was out around that time. If you read the book adjustment of the Blind, you can see the entire story about braille. I would have to go back into the book to be sure I was talking about the specific version in that part of the 19th century. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher nusbaum Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:27 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students What do you mean? What is punctaform? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 10:25 AM, justin williams wrote: > I think that is called punctaform. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > christopher nusbaum > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:21 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > > Well, you know, Brandon, that Braille is slow and inefficient. It was > developed in the 19th century to serve the needs of the blind people > of that era. Therefore, it is no longer relevant to us in the > technology-driven 21st century. Besides, it was invented by a blind > student! We know that blind people are incapable of having the > creativity to invent anything, so why would we trust a system which > was invented by a 19th-century blind French teenager? Moreover, many > kids still have some vision. Given all this, it wouldn't be logical to > teach kids who still have a little usable vision an inferior system of reading and writing that would in effect make them blind. > Even if the kids are totally blind, we can still use the tools of the > 21st century as a replacement for that tedious, outdated Braille code: > screen readers, talking books, screen magnification software, etc. Right? > Wrong! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 10, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > >> Now this is awesome! >> I'm just baffled though, why was this made a problem in the first place? > Sighted kids get taught how to read, why not blind kids? >> and I think being a TVI is one of the most difficult jobs in the >> world and > to have so many kids that you are forced to cut your time to 30 > minutes a child a week is just insanity of the first level! >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Corbbmacc O'Connor (by way of David >> Andrews) >> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 PM >> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the >> education of its blind K-12 students >> >> >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA Dr. Fredric K. >> Schroeder, President >> 9522 Lagersfield Circle . Vienna, VA 22181 >> (703) 319-9226 . fschroeder at sks.com >> www.nfbv.org >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, tracy.soforenko at verizon.net >> >> For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its >> blind K-12 students Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional >> leadership >> >> ARLINGTON, Va. - Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who led the advocacy to >> increase funding for teachers of blind students, will be recognized >> today with the Commonwealth Award by the National Federation of the >> Blind of Virginia (NFBV)-the Commonwealth's largest and oldest >> organization of blind people and the leading advocate for braille >> literacy. >> >> For years, the Virginia Department of Education has published >> Standards of Quality (SOQ), which define minimum student-teacher >> ratios and provide partial salary support to school divisions to fund >> special education teachers who work within Virginia's schools. >> Unfortunately, unlike all other disabilities, teachers for the blind >> were excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case loads in many >> school divisions. Through Delegate Brink's advocacy-supported by the >> National Federation of the Blind of Virginia-Governor McDonnell >> committed to fully fund the state share for staffing standards for >> blind and low vision students. The amended 2012-2014 budget addresses >> this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia's blind and low >> vision students. >> >> "Parents of blind children are frustrated that their children are not >> learning the blindness skills necessary to compete with their sighted >> peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric Schroeder. "We cannot expect >> students to learn braille and independent travel when teachers for >> the blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 minutes a week. >> Because reading and writing is a fundamental skill for all students, >> we are excited that blind students will now receive the quality >> education that they deserve." >> >> Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of McLean, said, "This >> is a long overdue step for the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision >> students across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. >> The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school districts." >> >> The award ceremony is open to members of the media, and will feature >> remarks from Brink, a member of the Arlington County School Board, >> and advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene Restaurant (501 N. >> Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. >> >> ### >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs >> % >> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >> g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 10 14:45:29 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:45:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students In-Reply-To: <005201ce4cc3$70499fd0$50dcdf70$@gmail.com> References: <-2706227773590570961@unknownmsgid> <004e01ce4cc1$540f21c0$fc2d6540$@gmail.com> <-1645005365919158421@unknownmsgid> <005201ce4cc3$70499fd0$50dcdf70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2628358655608837722@unknownmsgid> Oh, OK. I was being sarcastic in that message in answer to Brandon's question. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 10:44 AM, justin williams wrote: > The early form of braille you folks were talking about. I think that is > what it is called. I'm not sure if that is the exact version, but > punctaform is one of the braille versions which was out around that time. > If you read the book adjustment of the Blind, you can see the entire story > about braille. I would have to go back into the book to be sure I was > talking about the specific version in that part of the 19th century. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher > nusbaum > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:27 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > > What do you mean? What is punctaform? > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 10, 2013, at 10:25 AM, justin williams > wrote: > >> I think that is called punctaform. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> christopher nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:21 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the >> education of its blind K-12 students >> >> Well, you know, Brandon, that Braille is slow and inefficient. It was >> developed in the 19th century to serve the needs of the blind people >> of that era. Therefore, it is no longer relevant to us in the >> technology-driven 21st century. Besides, it was invented by a blind >> student! We know that blind people are incapable of having the >> creativity to invent anything, so why would we trust a system which >> was invented by a 19th-century blind French teenager? Moreover, many >> kids still have some vision. Given all this, it wouldn't be logical to >> teach kids who still have a little usable vision an inferior system of > reading and writing that would in effect make them blind. >> Even if the kids are totally blind, we can still use the tools of the >> 21st century as a replacement for that tedious, outdated Braille code: >> screen readers, talking books, screen magnification software, etc. Right? >> Wrong! >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 10, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> >>> Now this is awesome! >>> I'm just baffled though, why was this made a problem in the first place? >> Sighted kids get taught how to read, why not blind kids? >>> and I think being a TVI is one of the most difficult jobs in the >>> world and >> to have so many kids that you are forced to cut your time to 30 >> minutes a child a week is just insanity of the first level! >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Corbbmacc O'Connor (by way of David >>> Andrews) >>> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 PM >>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the >>> education of its blind K-12 students >>> >>> >>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA Dr. Fredric K. >>> Schroeder, President >>> 9522 Lagersfield Circle . Vienna, VA 22181 >>> (703) 319-9226 . fschroeder at sks.com >>> www.nfbv.org >>> >>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>> >>> CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, tracy.soforenko at verizon.net >>> >>> For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its >>> blind K-12 students Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional >>> leadership >>> >>> ARLINGTON, Va. - Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who led the advocacy to >>> increase funding for teachers of blind students, will be recognized >>> today with the Commonwealth Award by the National Federation of the >>> Blind of Virginia (NFBV)-the Commonwealth's largest and oldest >>> organization of blind people and the leading advocate for braille >>> literacy. >>> >>> For years, the Virginia Department of Education has published >>> Standards of Quality (SOQ), which define minimum student-teacher >>> ratios and provide partial salary support to school divisions to fund >>> special education teachers who work within Virginia's schools. >>> Unfortunately, unlike all other disabilities, teachers for the blind >>> were excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case loads in many >>> school divisions. Through Delegate Brink's advocacy-supported by the >>> National Federation of the Blind of Virginia-Governor McDonnell >>> committed to fully fund the state share for staffing standards for >>> blind and low vision students. The amended 2012-2014 budget addresses >>> this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia's blind and low >>> vision students. >>> >>> "Parents of blind children are frustrated that their children are not >>> learning the blindness skills necessary to compete with their sighted >>> peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric Schroeder. "We cannot expect >>> students to learn braille and independent travel when teachers for >>> the blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 minutes a week. >>> Because reading and writing is a fundamental skill for all students, >>> we are excited that blind students will now receive the quality >>> education that they deserve." >>> >>> Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of McLean, said, "This >>> is a long overdue step for the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision >>> students across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. >>> The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school districts." >>> >>> The award ceremony is open to members of the media, and will feature >>> remarks from Brink, a member of the Arlington County School Board, >>> and advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene Restaurant (501 N. >>> Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. >>> >>> ### >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri May 10 14:47:53 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:47:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a while, but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses in the suburb where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go to school in a different city I'm not sure which chapter I should belong to. I brought this up to the president of tthe chapter where I go to school, bit he never got back to me on it. On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have > the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't have > a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't be > enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the > Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've gone > to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to attend more > meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get up on a > Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) for a > 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested in—not a > very easy thing to do. * Smile! * > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist > > wrote: > > > I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, I > don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the two > nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could become a > member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, especially since I > believe most meetings take place in the evenings. > > > > Best, > > Sophie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Darian Smith > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 > > Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > > > > Hi folks, > > > > I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a > chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? > > If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know > where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your > chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made you > want to stick around? > > interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. > > Best, > > Darian > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > > r%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 9 15:01:11 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 11:01:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students In-Reply-To: <2628358655608837722@unknownmsgid> References: <-2706227773590570961@unknownmsgid> <004e01ce4cc1$540f21c0$fc2d6540$@gmail.com> <-1645005365919158421@unknownmsgid> <005201ce4cc3$70499fd0$50dcdf70$@gmail.com> <2628358655608837722@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <005401ce4cc6$0bdd4850$2397d8f0$@gmail.com> Ohm my bad. I really hate ruingging a good joke. Oops. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher nusbaum Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:45 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students Oh, OK. I was being sarcastic in that message in answer to Brandon's question. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 10:44 AM, justin williams wrote: > The early form of braille you folks were talking about. I think that > is what it is called. I'm not sure if that is the exact version, but > punctaform is one of the braille versions which was out around that time. > If you read the book adjustment of the Blind, you can see the entire > story about braille. I would have to go back into the book to be sure > I was talking about the specific version in that part of the 19th century. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > christopher nusbaum > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:27 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > > What do you mean? What is punctaform? > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 10, 2013, at 10:25 AM, justin williams > > wrote: > >> I think that is called punctaform. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> christopher nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:21 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund >> the education of its blind K-12 students >> >> Well, you know, Brandon, that Braille is slow and inefficient. It was >> developed in the 19th century to serve the needs of the blind people >> of that era. Therefore, it is no longer relevant to us in the >> technology-driven 21st century. Besides, it was invented by a blind >> student! We know that blind people are incapable of having the >> creativity to invent anything, so why would we trust a system which >> was invented by a 19th-century blind French teenager? Moreover, many >> kids still have some vision. Given all this, it wouldn't be logical >> to teach kids who still have a little usable vision an inferior >> system of > reading and writing that would in effect make them blind. >> Even if the kids are totally blind, we can still use the tools of the >> 21st century as a replacement for that tedious, outdated Braille code: >> screen readers, talking books, screen magnification software, etc. Right? >> Wrong! >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 10, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> >>> Now this is awesome! >>> I'm just baffled though, why was this made a problem in the first place? >> Sighted kids get taught how to read, why not blind kids? >>> and I think being a TVI is one of the most difficult jobs in the >>> world and >> to have so many kids that you are forced to cut your time to 30 >> minutes a child a week is just insanity of the first level! >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Corbbmacc O'Connor (by way of David >>> Andrews) >>> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 PM >>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the >>> education of its blind K-12 students >>> >>> >>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA Dr. Fredric K. >>> Schroeder, President >>> 9522 Lagersfield Circle . Vienna, VA 22181 >>> (703) 319-9226 . fschroeder at sks.com >>> www.nfbv.org >>> >>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>> >>> CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, >>> tracy.soforenko at verizon.net >>> >>> For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its >>> blind K-12 students Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional >>> leadership >>> >>> ARLINGTON, Va. - Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who led the advocacy to >>> increase funding for teachers of blind students, will be recognized >>> today with the Commonwealth Award by the National Federation of the >>> Blind of Virginia (NFBV)-the Commonwealth's largest and oldest >>> organization of blind people and the leading advocate for braille >>> literacy. >>> >>> For years, the Virginia Department of Education has published >>> Standards of Quality (SOQ), which define minimum student-teacher >>> ratios and provide partial salary support to school divisions to >>> fund special education teachers who work within Virginia's schools. >>> Unfortunately, unlike all other disabilities, teachers for the blind >>> were excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case loads in many >>> school divisions. Through Delegate Brink's advocacy-supported by the >>> National Federation of the Blind of Virginia-Governor McDonnell >>> committed to fully fund the state share for staffing standards for >>> blind and low vision students. The amended 2012-2014 budget >>> addresses this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia's blind >>> and low vision students. >>> >>> "Parents of blind children are frustrated that their children are >>> not learning the blindness skills necessary to compete with their >>> sighted peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric Schroeder. "We >>> cannot expect students to learn braille and independent travel when >>> teachers for the blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 minutes a week. >>> Because reading and writing is a fundamental skill for all students, >>> we are excited that blind students will now receive the quality >>> education that they deserve." >>> >>> Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of McLean, said, >>> "This is a long overdue step for the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision >>> students across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. >>> The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school districts." >>> >>> The award ceremony is open to members of the media, and will feature >>> remarks from Brink, a member of the Arlington County School Board, >>> and advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene Restaurant (501 N. >>> Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. >>> >>> ### >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbigg >>> s >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>> 0 >>> g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >> g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From ALewis at nfb.org Fri May 10 19:17:50 2013 From: ALewis at nfb.org (Lewis, Anil) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 19:17:50 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] =?windows-1252?q?Join_the_Conversation_for_Change_=97_Ma?= =?windows-1252?q?y_13-27=2C_2013?= Message-ID: <72D51A25A403F249A0FC4A94A0D9640D532DE7F1@CH1PRD0710MB380.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Join the Conversation for Change — May 13-27, 2013 The U.S. departments of Labor, Education, and Health and Human Services and the Social Security Administration invite policymakers, service providers, the advocacy community and others to participate in an online dialogue to examine the impact of existing federal regulations and legislation on the successful transition from school to work of youths and young adults with disabilities. The dialogue will be open May 13-27. "We must ensure that our federal programs and resources support our nation's youths and young adults with disabilities in reaching their dreams of economic empowerment and independence, and we need to hear from many people," said Kathy Martinez, assistant secretary of labor for disability employment policy. "Speaking up online can help us identify barriers as well as opportunities that may exist at the federal level and also help us develop solutions." · Read the news release · Read the DOL Newsletter story Join the National Dialogue Mr. Anil Lewis, M.P.A. Director of Advocacy and Policy “Eliminating Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities” http://www.nfb.org/fairwages NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 (410) 659-9314 ext. 2374 (Voice) (410) 685-5653 (FAX) Email: alewis at nfb.org Web: www.nfb.org twitter: @anillife From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Fri May 10 22:05:22 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 18:05:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother In-Reply-To: <003801ce4cb6$b4a0f7d0$1de2e770$@gmail.com> References: <2FF6E0B8-593E-41C4-9418-A02E36FE624C@ymail.com><019301ce4208$ad3b7690$07b263b0$@gmail.com><-5266873068869780232@unknownmsgid><005801ce41ae$4413db30$cc3b9190$@gmail.com><2346767950357188835@unknownmsgid><005a01ce41bb$85edb140$91c913c0$@gmail.com><3200FE52-7975-44BC-BAB0-5DCD42EC02D2@gmail.com><517AE189.7090906@gmail.com><517AEB35.8010607@tysdomain.com><04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> <003801ce4cb6$b4a0f7d0$1de2e770$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Justin, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you, What does ADA mean? I just would like to know!. thanks and God bless!! -----Original Message----- From: justin williams Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother I am also looking to do some advocating. Not as a lawyer, but as I make the journey towards obtaining my phd, it will included advocating for persons with disabilities, or other focused groups who need assistance. That won't be my full time job, but it will be a part of it. I would love to help ADA lawyers with my advocacy skills, and with my knowledge on the ADA. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 1:26 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother Hi Mr. Robert, this is Helga Schreiber. I just wanted to say that the letter that you wrote it says many true statements. In fact, I really like the part where you say you advocate for people's rights by using your gifts as a Journalist. I actually believe that God gives all of us a gift since birth, and when you say that you say that you want to help people by using your skills as a Journalist even though they say that nobody will read your journals, you ignore them and you stood firm in yor goals to do so. As a matter of fact, I really like that, when someone has that kind of courage and faith. I'm actually a college blind freshman student, and I'm studying in order to become a Lawyer, so that I could advocate for people's rights as well. Just to let you know, I don't want to become a Lawyer just for the money; the reason I want to become a Lawyer is because I want to help people. I truly believe that God created me and all of us for a purpose, and that we dididn't came to this earth as an accident; instead, we came to this earth in order to accomplish something, and leave a legacy for our generations to come. In fact, Just to let you know, I just became blind five years ago, due to many surgeries, but the news ofbecoming blind didn't stop me; rather, it made my spirit rejoys in order to fulfil the purpose that God put on my heart; to be come a Lawyer in order to advocate for others. Actually, I want to help the elderly, disabled, immigrants, and people in general with their rights. Also, I actually have many issues with my college, due to the fact, that they don't provide the help that Visually impaired students need; I'm actually the only blind student in my college, but what happen if another blind student comes to the college, are the college going to provide the help they need with Braille and tecknology? I really like reading in Braille, but my college sdoesn't provide me my materials in Braill at all. Actually, my life story is and college experiences stories are very long, but if you want to hear them you're very welcome! I'm actually a Christian, and I believe that we should never give up or quit in our goalls; rather we should continue going. I actually like to listen to music, but I specially like to listen Christian music, and I like to listen to many artists, but one particular Christian singer that I like is called Chris Tomlin. And one of of his songs that really encourage me and gives me faith to continue is called "Whom Shall I Fear" I really like this song, and I hope that you like it as well. By the way. your letter was very encouraging for me a lot Mr. Robert. God bless! and keep using your gift in order to reach people and advocate for their rights. Hope to talk to you soon! :) -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother Hi all, So I am no doubt catching this thread on the tail-end, but I still want to react to the letter. Firstly, I appreciate your sharing this with all of us. The Nabs-L list is a community, one with many many eyes reading what we write, but a community all the same. No doubt we all have different views on a particular subject and certainly different views on blindness and the NFB, as well as the various organizations that feel that for their part they are doing great things to change lives for the blind. Personally, I don't believe any organization is perfect, nor do I think that any one organization is completely negative. I think the best work in any movement is done when the people who are most effected by the issues they face are the people making the decisions and driving the change ("nothing about us, without us"). In the National Federation of the blind, we work with our sighted peers in making those changes, which makes sense if we say that the work we does being done so that we can compete on a level playing field with our sighted peers. I think that's important, because sometimes we think that we are setting ourselves in a situation where it is the blind against the sighted, and that's not very accurate at all. Our parents of blind children are some of the strongest advocates in our movement, we have sighted members of our affiliates that are just as loyal as some of our blind members, and we don't consider them any less or any more of a part of what we do. Further, I would dare say that sighted students can be just as active members of our organization, and we should welcome them with open arms. There is no denying that there is not a lot of cross-organization collaboration, and for my part, I think this is unfortunate. I think that it is possible that one day, maybe sooner than we know, we will see some of those bridges mended, and meaningful relationships grow from that. In the meantime, I think it's fine to keep an open mind and connect with anyone you feel a commonality with in either organization, however that connection might take root from. I admire anyone who feels strongly enough about a matter to advocate for it. Some learn it from their parents, some learn it on their own, some have learned it from theACB or NFB. I personally think I gained parts of my philosophy on blindness and advocacy as I lived and learned, but a good deal of it came from my experiences in the federation. One thing that I will say in closing is that I believe we all have the ability to be the change that we wish to see in the world we live in. Some of us do it by working with the blind, some of us do it by living our lives and showing in how we live it how we believe the blind out to be treated. Obviously, you can and should find your own thing to believe in, but so long as you find that thing you believe in, it tends to make life much more of an amazing experience. respectfully, Darian On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > I only have a couple of points. > First, I really liked the letter you wrote--I'd just remove the random > lol. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but older people generally don't > care for what Lol means and it totally kills your flow here. > Second, you're focusing a lot on NFB and ACB fighting among themselves. > This might be true, but there are amazing people in both camps. I've been > attacked on this list for being part of the ACB, then others don't care > because whatever I am part of, as long as I do something somehow to help > it doesn't matter. > The organizations themselves don't fight, it's mainly the die-hard fans of > either camp. While it's not always the case, I've never seen all that much > intelligence in the people that attacked me for being part of the ACB to > begin with, so if they feel they need to scream at me, I'd rather them do > that than say, try to promote fairness by doing something that would make > us look worse. > > You also kind of sound like you're screaming into the wind here with your > talk of nothing happening. There is a lot of stuff happening, it's just a > very slow process. Your influence as well as everyone elses helps > contribute to that bigger picture, even if it's not obvious right now. > > Just my two cents. > On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Robert William Kingett wrote: >> Let me know your thoughts. >> >> Dear xxx. >> >> I hope that I got your name right because I have never ever been good >> with names. I guess it runs in the family. LOL. >> >> I want to introduce myself to you. Sam forwarded me your message and it >> was really moving that I just had to respond personally. >> >> I want to introduce what Sam and I do and then I will comment on what you >> have so truthfully written and I also want to give you my thoughts, based >> on observation alone. Sam and are both blindness related advocates here >> in Chicago Illinois. I'm a blind journalist here in Chicago Illinois as >> well as an advocate for the LGBT community. I'm most known for my >> journalistic endeavors and I want to tell you something very personal and >> profound. >> >> I've been blind ever since birth and I grew up in a very abusive >> environment. When you say the word invisible that really struck a chord >> with me. Even though I have dealt with the abusive past by turning it >> into positive advocacy energy that one word brought back several >> memories. I was invisible in both cases, from the blindness side and the >> domestic violence side, and, I had to find my own way out of it because >> the school for the blind I was in just didn't care to get involved with >> such matters. The unusualDCF investigations never went as far as someone >> from child services coming to our home to investigate only to deem that >> everything was fine because, even though I did not like my mom, I covered >> up for her. My troubles at home were invisible to everyone, or so I >> believed. The truth is that they weren't invisible and someone had >> noticed. Naturally, they just didn't know what to do. >> >> In school I also learned to embrace my blindness because I saw the >> treatment that we received at a young age. When I was 11, I asked the >> manager at a restaurant why he didn't have any Braille menus, and why he >> was breaking the law. He didn't have an answer for me, so I began to ask >> that question at every restaurant I came to. It was an easy question for >> me to ask. Why? Because I asked my mom why she broke the law all the >> time. I was, and still am, a bookworm so I had a lot of questions, based >> on the stuff I read critically. In high school I found my own way out of >> the abusive home and that's when I truly learned what independence was >> and so I began to go around school telling other blind kids what it meant >> as well. On the academic side of the circle, the Florida school for the >> deaf and the blind was very good, but anything social skills related, >> advocacy related, that just flew over their heads. They didn't even tell >> us what college was going to be like. I had to experience that for >> myself. I realized that I had a gift and that gift was to string words >> together to make people listen. I was a writer and I started studying the >> extent, the power that my gift held. I began writing proposals for a >> school newspaper that the school had never had and I soon started my own >> school newspaper. Even at a blind school, the teachers told me that no >> one would read it. Kids at Saint Augustine high were crawling to pay for >> the fourth issue. >> >> I do have a point to this entire story so just hang in there! LOL. >> >> I wasn't invisible anymore but the blindness community was, and I >> realized this even more after I got out of high school. I'm sure that you >> have heard about the NFB and ACB and AFB and all of the above and many >> more. If you haven't they are blindness advocacy groups that do their own >> parts in different things. You want to talk about invisible? These groups >> are invisible. They are just now being heard about in mainstream media >> regularly. Even now, though, the only people who know about them are >> blind people. Why? Because there haven't been any loud voices. Okay, >> correction, there are loud voices but they are quietly yelling, thinking >> they will not do anything worthwhile by speaking up. You're an example of >> a voice that everyone should listen to. These blind groups would listen >> but there's a huge problem with these groups, and it's a shame to see the >> ironic twist, they don't reach out to sighted people for assistance with >> legal matters, or any other matter, they'd rather stay in their own >> tents, if you get my drift. Some efforts, not all, but some, are after >> the media to do stories about them. The NFB and ACB both have a lot to >> offer but they both don't do a big enough job on their own separately. >> They do things on a case-by-case basis, and their efforts are to educate >> the public about the blind and then change comes after the education. >> Plus, they even fight among one another, and waste energy doing it. All >> that yelling could have been done to do something better. The ACB people >> will say they are better, the NFB say that they do the right thing. >> Never, ever, have they collaborated on anything solid to make a powerful >> enough standing for change. Education does little good if change isn't >> implemented but they haven't realized this yet. They want to say that >> their group is better than the other rather than make efforts to change >> the community to better serve the blind. >> >> That being said, there's a lot of people who are making a difference. >> >> For example, I want to point you to Christine. >> http://www.christineha.com/ >> >> She was a blind MasterChef winner last season. >> >> There's a car that's driverless, allowing blind people to be mobile like >> never before... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car >> >> Also, the ACB have managed to get the communications and accessibility >> act signed by Obama, which will allow all electronic devices, even cell >> phones to be accessible. http://www.acb.org/adp/tv.html. They are also >> taking strides to make all paper currency accessible to the blind and the >> visually impaired. >> >> The NFB have done much work on employment. They have done so many things >> that I'll just give you their website. https://nfb.org/ >> >> And people like us, me, Sam, you, and every other small voice out there >> makes a big difference, even if we don't realize it or see it right away. >> For instance, I received an email from a woman whose wives, sisters, and >> friend I helped out years ago. You know how they say that every action >> has an equal and opposite reaction? Even though the action isn't seen and >> heard for years, it's an action that will be carried out for sure. For >> example, the FSDB kids of today now have a paper they can write for >> because of my simple action three years ago. I'm glad that I made that >> decision. >> >> I do think that we should unite to give the blind a much more stable >> ground to walk on but I'm just one person. Bigger and better companies >> and blindness organizations have a lot to fight about that are a lot more >> important than our wishes and dreams. I'm sorry to say but it's the >> truth. These blindness groups have a lot of energy to fight each other >> but that's changing too. That being said, I'm still going to continue to >> do my small actions of writing and advocacy and standing up for our >> rights as blind people because I know that somewhere along the line, even >> after my death, I will have made a powerful impact on someone's life and >> have made them a better person because I managed to get people talking >> because an article was published or because I demanded to see a company >> officer to straighten out an accessibility barrier, gave them some >> guidance. It's hard to stand up for the right thing because it seems that >> no one is listening. They are listening. I do believe, however, that this >> blindness schism is the worst that I've ever seen and it's the dumbest >> thing ever especially since they both promote inclusion and equality and >> they can't even include one another. To combat this, the people, not >> organizations, not the NFB, not the ACB, not the AFB, the people need to >> change what it means to be blind. We're doing that. You're doing that. >> You're amazing! We're amazing! Even though we're making progress it will >> take time, as with all great things. Big things come in small packages >> and voices and efforts. >> >> Your small actions towards your granddaughter will be remembered, and >> appreciated, and used very well even though they may seem as though they >> are not getting anywhere at the moment they will blossom into something >> big. People like us just have to continue to be loud positive vocal >> people who will both advocate and educate for the blind and the visually >> impaired. We can't rely on just blindness groups because then we will be >> sitting on our hands talking, taking no action. >> >> I just want to say hell yes you're a good grandmother. She knows Braille; >> she's standing up for herself. You're giving her all she needs, even if >> it's not right now. Even a small ripple can make a big wave. We're making >> a big wave, even if that wave won't come until years later. Our small >> actions will impact the world, and that's why I do what I do. That's why >> I don't give up because no matter how much arguing goes on, ignorance is >> displayed, services are denied, etc. I know that I have the power to >> change things. I'm proud to use my particular power of writing to change >> the world and to change what it means to be blind. You are changing your >> granddaughter's world, and someday, she will remember how you changed her >> world and then she will change other people's lives and that will be all >> because of you, xxx, you're an amazing ripple. Continue to make that >> wave! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri May 10 22:35:19 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 16:35:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother In-Reply-To: References: <2FF6E0B8-593E-41C4-9418-A02E36FE624C@ymail.com> <019301ce4208$ad3b7690$07b263b0$@gmail.com> <-5266873068869780232@unknownmsgid> <005801ce41ae$4413db30$cc3b9190$@gmail.com> <2346767950357188835@unknownmsgid> <005a01ce41bb$85edb140$91c913c0$@gmail.com> <3200FE52-7975-44BC-BAB0-5DCD42EC02D2@gmail.com> <517AE189.7090906@gmail.com> <517AEB35.8010607@tysdomain.com> <04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> <003801ce4cb6$b4a0f7d0$1de2e770$@gmail.com> Message-ID: The ADA is the Americans with Disabilities Act. Arielle On 5/10/13, Helga wrote: > Hi Justin, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you, What does ADA mean? > > I just would like to know!. thanks and God bless!! > > -----Original Message----- > From: justin williams > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother > > I am also looking to do some advocating. Not as a lawyer, but as I make > the > journey towards obtaining my phd, it will included advocating for persons > with disabilities, or other focused groups who need assistance. That won't > be my full time job, but it will be a part of it. I would love to help ADA > lawyers with my advocacy skills, and with my knowledge on the ADA. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga > Schreiber > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 1:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother > > Hi Mr. Robert, this is Helga Schreiber. I just wanted to say that the > letter > > that you wrote it says many true statements. In fact, I really like the > part > > where you say you advocate for people's rights by using your gifts as a > Journalist. I actually believe that God gives all of us a gift since birth, > and when you say that you say that you want to help people by using your > skills as a Journalist even though they say that nobody will read your > journals, you ignore them and you stood firm in yor goals to do so. As a > matter of fact, I really like that, when someone has that kind of courage > and faith. I'm actually a college blind freshman student, and I'm studying > in order to become a Lawyer, so that I could advocate for people's rights > as > > well. Just to let you know, I don't want to become a Lawyer just for the > money; the reason I want to become a Lawyer is because I want to help > people. I truly believe that God created me and all of us for a purpose, > and > > that we dididn't came to this earth as an accident; instead, we came to > this > > earth in order to accomplish something, and leave a legacy for our > generations to come. In fact, Just to let you know, I just became blind > five > > years ago, due to many surgeries, but the news ofbecoming blind didn't stop > me; rather, it made my spirit rejoys in order to fulfil the purpose that > God > > put on my heart; to be come a Lawyer in order to advocate for others. > Actually, I want to help the elderly, disabled, immigrants, and people in > general with their rights. Also, I actually have many issues with my > college, due to the fact, that they don't provide the help that Visually > impaired students need; I'm actually the only blind student in my college, > but what happen if another blind student comes to the college, are the > college going to provide the help they need with Braille and tecknology? I > really like reading in Braille, but my college sdoesn't provide me my > materials in Braill at all. Actually, my life story is and college > experiences stories are very long, but if you want to hear them you're very > welcome! I'm actually a Christian, and I believe that we should never give > up or quit in our goalls; rather we should continue going. I actually like > to listen to music, but I specially like to listen Christian music, and I > like to listen to many artists, but one particular Christian singer that I > like is called Chris Tomlin. And one of of his songs that really encourage > me and gives me faith to continue is called "Whom Shall I Fear" I really > like this song, and I hope that you like it as well. By the way. your > letter > > was very encouraging for me a lot Mr. Robert. God bless! and keep using > your > > gift in order to reach people and advocate for their rights. Hope to talk > to > > you soon! :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darian Smith > Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother > > Hi all, > So I am no doubt catching this thread on the tail-end, but I still want > to react to the letter. > > Firstly, I appreciate your sharing this with all of us. The Nabs-L > list > > is a community, one with many many eyes reading what we write, but a > community all the same. > No doubt we all have different views on a particular subject and > certainly different views on blindness and the NFB, as well as the various > organizations that feel that for their part they are doing great things > to change lives for the blind. > > Personally, I don't believe any organization is perfect, nor do I think > that > > any one organization is completely negative. > I think the best work in any movement is done when the people who are most > effected by the issues they face are the people making the decisions and > driving the change ("nothing about us, without us"). > In the National Federation of the blind, we work with our sighted peers in > making those changes, which makes sense if we say that the work we does > being done so that we can compete on a level playing field with our > sighted > > peers. > I think that's important, because sometimes we think that we are setting > ourselves in a situation where it is the blind against the sighted, and > that's not very accurate at all. Our parents of blind children are some of > the strongest advocates in our movement, we have sighted members of our > affiliates that are just as loyal as some of our blind members, and we > don't consider them any less or any more of a part of what we do. Further, > I would dare say that sighted students can be just as active members of > our > > organization, and we should welcome them with open arms. > There is no denying that there is not a lot of cross-organization > collaboration, and for my part, I think this is unfortunate. I think that > it is possible that one day, maybe sooner than we know, we will see some of > those bridges mended, and meaningful relationships grow from that. > In the meantime, I think it's fine to keep an open mind and connect with > anyone you feel a commonality with in either organization, however that > connection might take root from. > I admire anyone who feels strongly enough about a matter to advocate > for it. Some learn it from their parents, some learn it on their own, some > have learned it from theACB or NFB. > I personally think I gained parts of my philosophy on blindness and > advocacy as I lived and learned, but a good deal of it came from my > experiences in the federation. > One thing that I will say in closing is that I believe we all have the > ability to be the change that we wish to see in the world we live in. Some > of us do it by working with the blind, some of us do it by living our lives > and showing in how we live it how we believe the blind out to be treated. > Obviously, you can and should find your own thing to believe in, but so > long as you find that thing you believe in, it tends to make life much more > of an amazing experience. > > respectfully, > Darian > > On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" > wrote: > >> I only have a couple of points. >> First, I really liked the letter you wrote--I'd just remove the random >> lol. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but older people generally don't >> care for what Lol means and it totally kills your flow here. >> Second, you're focusing a lot on NFB and ACB fighting among themselves. >> This might be true, but there are amazing people in both camps. I've been >> attacked on this list for being part of the ACB, then others don't care >> because whatever I am part of, as long as I do something somehow to help >> it doesn't matter. >> The organizations themselves don't fight, it's mainly the die-hard fans >> of > >> either camp. While it's not always the case, I've never seen all that >> much > >> intelligence in the people that attacked me for being part of the ACB to >> begin with, so if they feel they need to scream at me, I'd rather them do >> that than say, try to promote fairness by doing something that would make >> us look worse. >> >> You also kind of sound like you're screaming into the wind here with your >> talk of nothing happening. There is a lot of stuff happening, it's just a >> very slow process. Your influence as well as everyone elses helps >> contribute to that bigger picture, even if it's not obvious right now. >> >> Just my two cents. >> On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Robert William Kingett wrote: >>> Let me know your thoughts. >>> >>> Dear xxx. >>> >>> I hope that I got your name right because I have never ever been good >>> with names. I guess it runs in the family. LOL. >>> >>> I want to introduce myself to you. Sam forwarded me your message and it >>> was really moving that I just had to respond personally. >>> >>> I want to introduce what Sam and I do and then I will comment on what >>> you > >>> have so truthfully written and I also want to give you my thoughts, >>> based > >>> on observation alone. Sam and are both blindness related advocates here >>> in Chicago Illinois. I'm a blind journalist here in Chicago Illinois as >>> well as an advocate for the LGBT community. I'm most known for my >>> journalistic endeavors and I want to tell you something very personal >>> and > >>> profound. >>> >>> I've been blind ever since birth and I grew up in a very abusive >>> environment. When you say the word invisible that really struck a chord >>> with me. Even though I have dealt with the abusive past by turning it >>> into positive advocacy energy that one word brought back several >>> memories. I was invisible in both cases, from the blindness side and the >>> domestic violence side, and, I had to find my own way out of it because >>> the school for the blind I was in just didn't care to get involved with >>> such matters. The unusualDCF investigations never went as far as someone >>> from child services coming to our home to investigate only to deem that >>> everything was fine because, even though I did not like my mom, I >>> covered > >>> up for her. My troubles at home were invisible to everyone, or so I >>> believed. The truth is that they weren't invisible and someone had >>> noticed. Naturally, they just didn't know what to do. >>> >>> In school I also learned to embrace my blindness because I saw the >>> treatment that we received at a young age. When I was 11, I asked the >>> manager at a restaurant why he didn't have any Braille menus, and why he >>> was breaking the law. He didn't have an answer for me, so I began to ask >>> that question at every restaurant I came to. It was an easy question for >>> me to ask. Why? Because I asked my mom why she broke the law all the >>> time. I was, and still am, a bookworm so I had a lot of questions, based >>> on the stuff I read critically. In high school I found my own way out of >>> the abusive home and that's when I truly learned what independence was >>> and so I began to go around school telling other blind kids what it >>> meant > >>> as well. On the academic side of the circle, the Florida school for the >>> deaf and the blind was very good, but anything social skills related, >>> advocacy related, that just flew over their heads. They didn't even tell >>> us what college was going to be like. I had to experience that for >>> myself. I realized that I had a gift and that gift was to string words >>> together to make people listen. I was a writer and I started studying >>> the > >>> extent, the power that my gift held. I began writing proposals for a >>> school newspaper that the school had never had and I soon started my own >>> school newspaper. Even at a blind school, the teachers told me that no >>> one would read it. Kids at Saint Augustine high were crawling to pay for >>> the fourth issue. >>> >>> I do have a point to this entire story so just hang in there! LOL. >>> >>> I wasn't invisible anymore but the blindness community was, and I >>> realized this even more after I got out of high school. I'm sure that >>> you > >>> have heard about the NFB and ACB and AFB and all of the above and many >>> more. If you haven't they are blindness advocacy groups that do their >>> own > >>> parts in different things. You want to talk about invisible? These >>> groups > >>> are invisible. They are just now being heard about in mainstream media >>> regularly. Even now, though, the only people who know about them are >>> blind people. Why? Because there haven't been any loud voices. Okay, >>> correction, there are loud voices but they are quietly yelling, thinking >>> they will not do anything worthwhile by speaking up. You're an example >>> of > >>> a voice that everyone should listen to. These blind groups would listen >>> but there's a huge problem with these groups, and it's a shame to see >>> the > >>> ironic twist, they don't reach out to sighted people for assistance with >>> legal matters, or any other matter, they'd rather stay in their own >>> tents, if you get my drift. Some efforts, not all, but some, are after >>> the media to do stories about them. The NFB and ACB both have a lot to >>> offer but they both don't do a big enough job on their own separately. >>> They do things on a case-by-case basis, and their efforts are to educate >>> the public about the blind and then change comes after the education. >>> Plus, they even fight among one another, and waste energy doing it. All >>> that yelling could have been done to do something better. The ACB people >>> will say they are better, the NFB say that they do the right thing. >>> Never, ever, have they collaborated on anything solid to make a powerful >>> enough standing for change. Education does little good if change isn't >>> implemented but they haven't realized this yet. They want to say that >>> their group is better than the other rather than make efforts to change >>> the community to better serve the blind. >>> >>> That being said, there's a lot of people who are making a difference. >>> >>> For example, I want to point you to Christine. >>> http://www.christineha.com/ >>> >>> She was a blind MasterChef winner last season. >>> >>> There's a car that's driverless, allowing blind people to be mobile like >>> never before... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car >>> >>> Also, the ACB have managed to get the communications and accessibility >>> act signed by Obama, which will allow all electronic devices, even cell >>> phones to be accessible. http://www.acb.org/adp/tv.html. They are also >>> taking strides to make all paper currency accessible to the blind and >>> the > >>> visually impaired. >>> >>> The NFB have done much work on employment. They have done so many things >>> that I'll just give you their website. https://nfb.org/ >>> >>> And people like us, me, Sam, you, and every other small voice out there >>> makes a big difference, even if we don't realize it or see it right >>> away. > >>> For instance, I received an email from a woman whose wives, sisters, and >>> friend I helped out years ago. You know how they say that every action >>> has an equal and opposite reaction? Even though the action isn't seen >>> and > >>> heard for years, it's an action that will be carried out for sure. For >>> example, the FSDB kids of today now have a paper they can write for >>> because of my simple action three years ago. I'm glad that I made that >>> decision. >>> >>> I do think that we should unite to give the blind a much more stable >>> ground to walk on but I'm just one person. Bigger and better companies >>> and blindness organizations have a lot to fight about that are a lot >>> more > >>> important than our wishes and dreams. I'm sorry to say but it's the >>> truth. These blindness groups have a lot of energy to fight each other >>> but that's changing too. That being said, I'm still going to continue to >>> do my small actions of writing and advocacy and standing up for our >>> rights as blind people because I know that somewhere along the line, >>> even > >>> after my death, I will have made a powerful impact on someone's life and >>> have made them a better person because I managed to get people talking >>> because an article was published or because I demanded to see a company >>> officer to straighten out an accessibility barrier, gave them some >>> guidance. It's hard to stand up for the right thing because it seems >>> that > >>> no one is listening. They are listening. I do believe, however, that >>> this > >>> blindness schism is the worst that I've ever seen and it's the dumbest >>> thing ever especially since they both promote inclusion and equality and >>> they can't even include one another. To combat this, the people, not >>> organizations, not the NFB, not the ACB, not the AFB, the people need to >>> change what it means to be blind. We're doing that. You're doing that. >>> You're amazing! We're amazing! Even though we're making progress it will >>> take time, as with all great things. Big things come in small packages >>> and voices and efforts. >>> >>> Your small actions towards your granddaughter will be remembered, and >>> appreciated, and used very well even though they may seem as though they >>> are not getting anywhere at the moment they will blossom into something >>> big. People like us just have to continue to be loud positive vocal >>> people who will both advocate and educate for the blind and the visually >>> impaired. We can't rely on just blindness groups because then we will be >>> sitting on our hands talking, taking no action. >>> >>> I just want to say hell yes you're a good grandmother. She knows >>> Braille; > >>> she's standing up for herself. You're giving her all she needs, even if >>> it's not right now. Even a small ripple can make a big wave. We're >>> making > >>> a big wave, even if that wave won't come until years later. Our small >>> actions will impact the world, and that's why I do what I do. That's why >>> I don't give up because no matter how much arguing goes on, ignorance is >>> displayed, services are denied, etc. I know that I have the power to >>> change things. I'm proud to use my particular power of writing to change >>> the world and to change what it means to be blind. You are changing your >>> granddaughter's world, and someday, she will remember how you changed >>> her > >>> world and then she will change other people's lives and that will be all >>> because of you, xxx, you're an amazing ripple. Continue to make that >>> wave! >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat May 11 01:55:31 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 21:55:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students In-Reply-To: <005401ce4cc6$0bdd4850$2397d8f0$@gmail.com> References: <-2706227773590570961@unknownmsgid> <004e01ce4cc1$540f21c0$fc2d6540$@gmail.com> <-1645005365919158421@unknownmsgid> <005201ce4cc3$70499fd0$50dcdf70$@gmail.com> <2628358655608837722@unknownmsgid> <005401ce4cc6$0bdd4850$2397d8f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001701ce4dea$9f087260$dd195720$@gmail.com> That's OK, man! Sarcasm is sometimes hard to understand. Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of justin williams Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 11:01 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students Ohm my bad. I really hate ruingging a good joke. Oops. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher nusbaum Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:45 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students Oh, OK. I was being sarcastic in that message in answer to Brandon's question. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2013, at 10:44 AM, justin williams wrote: > The early form of braille you folks were talking about. I think that > is what it is called. I'm not sure if that is the exact version, but > punctaform is one of the braille versions which was out around that time. > If you read the book adjustment of the Blind, you can see the entire > story about braille. I would have to go back into the book to be sure > I was talking about the specific version in that part of the 19th century. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > christopher nusbaum > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:27 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > > What do you mean? What is punctaform? > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 10, 2013, at 10:25 AM, justin williams > > wrote: > >> I think that is called punctaform. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> christopher nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:21 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund >> the education of its blind K-12 students >> >> Well, you know, Brandon, that Braille is slow and inefficient. It was >> developed in the 19th century to serve the needs of the blind people >> of that era. Therefore, it is no longer relevant to us in the >> technology-driven 21st century. Besides, it was invented by a blind >> student! We know that blind people are incapable of having the >> creativity to invent anything, so why would we trust a system which >> was invented by a 19th-century blind French teenager? Moreover, many >> kids still have some vision. Given all this, it wouldn't be logical >> to teach kids who still have a little usable vision an inferior >> system of > reading and writing that would in effect make them blind. >> Even if the kids are totally blind, we can still use the tools of the >> 21st century as a replacement for that tedious, outdated Braille code: >> screen readers, talking books, screen magnification software, etc. Right? >> Wrong! >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 10, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> >>> Now this is awesome! >>> I'm just baffled though, why was this made a problem in the first place? >> Sighted kids get taught how to read, why not blind kids? >>> and I think being a TVI is one of the most difficult jobs in the >>> world and >> to have so many kids that you are forced to cut your time to 30 >> minutes a child a week is just insanity of the first level! >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Corbbmacc O'Connor (by way of David >>> Andrews) >>> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 PM >>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the >>> education of its blind K-12 students >>> >>> >>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA Dr. Fredric K. >>> Schroeder, President >>> 9522 Lagersfield Circle . Vienna, VA 22181 >>> (703) 319-9226 . fschroeder at sks.com >>> www.nfbv.org >>> >>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>> >>> CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, >>> tracy.soforenko at verizon.net >>> >>> For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its >>> blind K-12 students Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional >>> leadership >>> >>> ARLINGTON, Va. - Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who led the advocacy to >>> increase funding for teachers of blind students, will be recognized >>> today with the Commonwealth Award by the National Federation of the >>> Blind of Virginia (NFBV)-the Commonwealth's largest and oldest >>> organization of blind people and the leading advocate for braille >>> literacy. >>> >>> For years, the Virginia Department of Education has published >>> Standards of Quality (SOQ), which define minimum student-teacher >>> ratios and provide partial salary support to school divisions to >>> fund special education teachers who work within Virginia's schools. >>> Unfortunately, unlike all other disabilities, teachers for the blind >>> were excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case loads in many >>> school divisions. Through Delegate Brink's advocacy-supported by the >>> National Federation of the Blind of Virginia-Governor McDonnell >>> committed to fully fund the state share for staffing standards for >>> blind and low vision students. The amended 2012-2014 budget >>> addresses this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia's blind >>> and low vision students. >>> >>> "Parents of blind children are frustrated that their children are >>> not learning the blindness skills necessary to compete with their >>> sighted peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric Schroeder. "We >>> cannot expect students to learn braille and independent travel when >>> teachers for the blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 minutes >>> a week. >>> Because reading and writing is a fundamental skill for all students, >>> we are excited that blind students will now receive the quality >>> education that they deserve." >>> >>> Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of McLean, said, >>> "This is a long overdue step for the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision >>> students across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. >>> The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school districts." >>> >>> The award ceremony is open to members of the media, and will feature >>> remarks from Brink, a member of the Arlington County School Board, >>> and advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene Restaurant (501 N. >>> Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. >>> >>> ### >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbigg >>> s >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>> 0 >>> g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >> g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat May 11 02:14:15 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 22:14:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <001d01ce4ded$3caf1c60$b60d5520$@gmail.com> Kaiti, You might contact your state affiliate President and ask him/her what the closest chapter is to your school. You may also be able to find this on your affiliate's Web site, as a list of chapters is usually put on affiliate Web sites. Hope this helps, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:48 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a while, but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses in the suburb where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go to school in a different city I'm not sure which chapter I should belong to. I brought this up to the president of tthe chapter where I go to school, bit he never got back to me on it. On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have > the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't have > a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't be > enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the > Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've gone > to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to attend more > meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get up on a > Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) for a > 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested in-not a > very easy thing to do. * Smile! * > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist > > > wrote: > > > I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, > > I > don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the > two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could > become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, > especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. > > > > Best, > > Sophie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Darian Smith > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 > > Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > > > > Hi folks, > > > > I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a > chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? > > If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know > where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your > chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made > you want to stick around? > > interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. > > Best, > > Darian > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > > r%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat May 11 02:36:45 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 22:36:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother In-Reply-To: <04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> References: <2FF6E0B8-593E-41C4-9418-A02E36FE624C@ymail.com> <019301ce4208$ad3b7690$07b263b0$@gmail.com> <-5266873068869780232@unknownmsgid> <005801ce41ae$4413db30$cc3b9190$@gmail.com> <2346767950357188835@unknownmsgid> <005a01ce41bb$85edb140$91c913c0$@gmail.com> <3200FE52-7975-44BC-BAB0-5DCD42EC02D2@gmail.com> <517AE189.7090906@gmail.com> <517AEB35.8010607@tysdomain.com> <04DDED17-D2E3-48D9-A3BA-E0143CBCD16A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002d01ce4df0$61b143a0$2513cae0$@gmail.com> Darian, This is very well said. Thank you! Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 11:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] advocacy advice to an grandmother Hi all, So I am no doubt catching this thread on the tail-end, but I still want to react to the letter. Firstly, I appreciate your sharing this with all of us. The Nabs-L list is a community, one with many many eyes reading what we write, but a community all the same. No doubt we all have different views on a particular subject and certainly different views on blindness and the NFB, as well as the various organizations that feel that for their part they are doing great things to change lives for the blind. Personally, I don't believe any organization is perfect, nor do I think that any one organization is completely negative. I think the best work in any movement is done when the people who are most effected by the issues they face are the people making the decisions and driving the change ("nothing about us, without us"). In the National Federation of the blind, we work with our sighted peers in making those changes, which makes sense if we say that the work we does being done so that we can compete on a level playing field with our sighted peers. I think that's important, because sometimes we think that we are setting ourselves in a situation where it is the blind against the sighted, and that's not very accurate at all. Our parents of blind children are some of the strongest advocates in our movement, we have sighted members of our affiliates that are just as loyal as some of our blind members, and we don't consider them any less or any more of a part of what we do. Further, I would dare say that sighted students can be just as active members of our organization, and we should welcome them with open arms. There is no denying that there is not a lot of cross-organization collaboration, and for my part, I think this is unfortunate. I think that it is possible that one day, maybe sooner than we know, we will see some of those bridges mended, and meaningful relationships grow from that. In the meantime, I think it's fine to keep an open mind and connect with anyone you feel a commonality with in either organization, however that connection might take root from. I admire anyone who feels strongly enough about a matter to advocate for it. Some learn it from their parents, some learn it on their own, some have learned it from theACB or NFB. I personally think I gained parts of my philosophy on blindness and advocacy as I lived and learned, but a good deal of it came from my experiences in the federation. One thing that I will say in closing is that I believe we all have the ability to be the change that we wish to see in the world we live in. Some of us do it by working with the blind, some of us do it by living our lives and showing in how we live it how we believe the blind out to be treated. Obviously, you can and should find your own thing to believe in, but so long as you find that thing you believe in, it tends to make life much more of an amazing experience. respectfully, Darian On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > I only have a couple of points. > First, I really liked the letter you wrote--I'd just remove the random lol. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but older people generally don't care for what Lol means and it totally kills your flow here. > Second, you're focusing a lot on NFB and ACB fighting among themselves. This might be true, but there are amazing people in both camps. I've been attacked on this list for being part of the ACB, then others don't care because whatever I am part of, as long as I do something somehow to help it doesn't matter. > The organizations themselves don't fight, it's mainly the die-hard fans of either camp. While it's not always the case, I've never seen all that much intelligence in the people that attacked me for being part of the ACB to begin with, so if they feel they need to scream at me, I'd rather them do that than say, try to promote fairness by doing something that would make us look worse. > > You also kind of sound like you're screaming into the wind here with your talk of nothing happening. There is a lot of stuff happening, it's just a very slow process. Your influence as well as everyone elses helps contribute to that bigger picture, even if it's not obvious right now. > > Just my two cents. > On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Robert William Kingett wrote: >> Let me know your thoughts. >> >> Dear xxx. >> >> I hope that I got your name right because I have never ever been good with names. I guess it runs in the family. LOL. >> >> I want to introduce myself to you. Sam forwarded me your message and it was really moving that I just had to respond personally. >> >> I want to introduce what Sam and I do and then I will comment on what you have so truthfully written and I also want to give you my thoughts, based on observation alone. Sam and are both blindness related advocates here in Chicago Illinois. I'm a blind journalist here in Chicago Illinois as well as an advocate for the LGBT community. I'm most known for my journalistic endeavors and I want to tell you something very personal and profound. >> >> I've been blind ever since birth and I grew up in a very abusive environment. When you say the word invisible that really struck a chord with me. Even though I have dealt with the abusive past by turning it into positive advocacy energy that one word brought back several memories. I was invisible in both cases, from the blindness side and the domestic violence side, and, I had to find my own way out of it because the school for the blind I was in just didn't care to get involved with such matters. The unusualDCF investigations never went as far as someone from child services coming to our home to investigate only to deem that everything was fine because, even though I did not like my mom, I covered up for her. My troubles at home were invisible to everyone, or so I believed. The truth is that they weren't invisible and someone had noticed. Naturally, they just didn't know what to do. >> >> In school I also learned to embrace my blindness because I saw the treatment that we received at a young age. When I was 11, I asked the manager at a restaurant why he didn't have any Braille menus, and why he was breaking the law. He didn't have an answer for me, so I began to ask that question at every restaurant I came to. It was an easy question for me to ask. Why? Because I asked my mom why she broke the law all the time. I was, and still am, a bookworm so I had a lot of questions, based on the stuff I read critically. In high school I found my own way out of the abusive home and that's when I truly learned what independence was and so I began to go around school telling other blind kids what it meant as well. On the academic side of the circle, the Florida school for the deaf and the blind was very good, but anything social skills related, advocacy related, that just flew over their heads. They didn't even tell us what college was going to be like. I had to experience that for myself. I realized that I had a gift and that gift was to string words together to make people listen. I was a writer and I started studying the extent, the power that my gift held. I began writing proposals for a school newspaper that the school had never had and I soon started my own school newspaper. Even at a blind school, the teachers told me that no one would read it. Kids at Saint Augustine high were crawling to pay for the fourth issue. >> >> I do have a point to this entire story so just hang in there! LOL. >> >> I wasn't invisible anymore but the blindness community was, and I realized this even more after I got out of high school. I'm sure that you have heard about the NFB and ACB and AFB and all of the above and many more. If you haven't they are blindness advocacy groups that do their own parts in different things. You want to talk about invisible? These groups are invisible. They are just now being heard about in mainstream media regularly. Even now, though, the only people who know about them are blind people. Why? Because there haven't been any loud voices. Okay, correction, there are loud voices but they are quietly yelling, thinking they will not do anything worthwhile by speaking up. You're an example of a voice that everyone should listen to. These blind groups would listen but there's a huge problem with these groups, and it's a shame to see the ironic twist, they don't reach out to sighted people for assistance with legal matters, or any other matter, they'd rather stay in their own tents, if you get my drift. Some efforts, not all, but some, are after the media to do stories about them. The NFB and ACB both have a lot to offer but they both don't do a big enough job on their own separately. They do things on a case-by-case basis, and their efforts are to educate the public about the blind and then change comes after the education. Plus, they even fight among one another, and waste energy doing it. All that yelling could have been done to do something better. The ACB people will say they are better, the NFB say that they do the right thing. Never, ever, have they collaborated on anything solid to make a powerful enough standing for change. Education does little good if change isn't implemented but they haven't realized this yet. They want to say that their group is better than the other rather than make efforts to change the community to better serve the blind. >> >> That being said, there's a lot of people who are making a difference. >> >> For example, I want to point you to Christine. http://www.christineha.com/ >> >> She was a blind MasterChef winner last season. >> >> There's a car that's driverless, allowing blind people to be mobile like never before... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car >> >> Also, the ACB have managed to get the communications and accessibility act signed by Obama, which will allow all electronic devices, even cell phones to be accessible. http://www.acb.org/adp/tv.html. They are also taking strides to make all paper currency accessible to the blind and the visually impaired. >> >> The NFB have done much work on employment. They have done so many things that I'll just give you their website. https://nfb.org/ >> >> And people like us, me, Sam, you, and every other small voice out there makes a big difference, even if we don't realize it or see it right away. For instance, I received an email from a woman whose wives, sisters, and friend I helped out years ago. You know how they say that every action has an equal and opposite reaction? Even though the action isn't seen and heard for years, it's an action that will be carried out for sure. For example, the FSDB kids of today now have a paper they can write for because of my simple action three years ago. I'm glad that I made that decision. >> >> I do think that we should unite to give the blind a much more stable ground to walk on but I'm just one person. Bigger and better companies and blindness organizations have a lot to fight about that are a lot more important than our wishes and dreams. I'm sorry to say but it's the truth. These blindness groups have a lot of energy to fight each other but that's changing too. That being said, I'm still going to continue to do my small actions of writing and advocacy and standing up for our rights as blind people because I know that somewhere along the line, even after my death, I will have made a powerful impact on someone's life and have made them a better person because I managed to get people talking because an article was published or because I demanded to see a company officer to straighten out an accessibility barrier, gave them some guidance. It's hard to stand up for the right thing because it seems that no one is listening. They are listening. I do believe, however, that this blindness schism is the worst that I've ever seen and it's the dumbest thing ever especially since they both promote inclusion and equality and they can't even include one another. To combat this, the people, not organizations, not the NFB, not the ACB, not the AFB, the people need to change what it means to be blind. We're doing that. You're doing that. You're amazing! We're amazing! Even though we're making progress it will take time, as with all great things. Big things come in small packages and voices and efforts. >> >> Your small actions towards your granddaughter will be remembered, and appreciated, and used very well even though they may seem as though they are not getting anywhere at the moment they will blossom into something big. People like us just have to continue to be loud positive vocal people who will both advocate and educate for the blind and the visually impaired. We can't rely on just blindness groups because then we will be sitting on our hands talking, taking no action. >> >> I just want to say hell yes you're a good grandmother. She knows Braille; she's standing up for herself. You're giving her all she needs, even if it's not right now. Even a small ripple can make a big wave. We're making a big wave, even if that wave won't come until years later. Our small actions will impact the world, and that's why I do what I do. That's why I don't give up because no matter how much arguing goes on, ignorance is displayed, services are denied, etc. I know that I have the power to change things. I'm proud to use my particular power of writing to change the world and to change what it means to be blind. You are changing your granddaughter's world, and someday, she will remember how you changed her world and then she will change other people's lives and that will be all because of you, xxx, you're an amazing ripple. Continue to make that wave! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat May 11 02:49:27 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 22:49:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: <001d01ce4ded$3caf1c60$b60d5520$@gmail.com> References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> <001d01ce4ded$3caf1c60$b60d5520$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, Chris: It's not that; I know the chapter nearest to my school and as said in my last email I have made contact with that chapter president with this question. I'm confused on which one I should join, the one nearest to my college or the one nearest to where I live back home. Although for transportation reasons as the cities are an hour apart I wouldn't be able to be an active member of either chapter throughout the entire year, going to the one nearest to school seems like it would make the most sense since I think I could independently get myself there and back on campus for the months I'm in that city. But, my question to that chapter president was more along the lines of should I join that chapter since I'm from a city with an established chapter of it's own. I'm just not really clear on what the rules for chapter involvement are, or if such a thing as duel-membership exists. On 5/10/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Kaiti, > > You might contact your state affiliate President and ask him/her what the > closest chapter is to your school. You may also be able to find this on > your > affiliate's Web site, as a list of chapters is usually put on affiliate Web > sites. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:48 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > > I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter > meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a while, > but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses in the suburb > where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go to school in a > different city I'm not sure which chapter I should belong to. I brought > this > up to the president of tthe chapter where I go to school, bit he never got > back to me on it. > > On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: > >> Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have >> the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't have >> a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't be >> enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the >> Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've gone >> to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to attend more >> meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get up on a >> Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) for a >> 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested in-not a >> very easy thing to do. * Smile! * >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist >> > >> wrote: >> >> > I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, >> > I >> don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the >> two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could >> become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, >> especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. >> > >> > Best, >> > Sophie >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Darian Smith >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >> > >> > Hi folks, >> > >> > I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a >> chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? >> > If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know >> where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your >> chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made >> you want to stick around? >> > interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. >> > Best, >> > Darian >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> > r%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for >> nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat May 11 02:50:30 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 22:50:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its blind K-12 students In-Reply-To: <001701ce4dea$9f087260$dd195720$@gmail.com> References: <-2706227773590570961@unknownmsgid> <004e01ce4cc1$540f21c0$fc2d6540$@gmail.com> <-1645005365919158421@unknownmsgid> <005201ce4cc3$70499fd0$50dcdf70$@gmail.com> <2628358655608837722@unknownmsgid> <005401ce4cc6$0bdd4850$2397d8f0$@gmail.com> <001701ce4dea$9f087260$dd195720$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Very true, especially when it's in writing and you have no way of getting the vocal inflection or tone the person would say if you could hear them speak it. On 5/10/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > That's OK, man! Sarcasm is sometimes hard to understand. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of justin > williams > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 11:01 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > > Ohm my bad. I really hate ruingging a good joke. Oops. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher > nusbaum > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:45 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the > education of its blind K-12 students > > Oh, OK. I was being sarcastic in that message in answer to Brandon's > question. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 10, 2013, at 10:44 AM, justin williams > wrote: > >> The early form of braille you folks were talking about. I think that >> is what it is called. I'm not sure if that is the exact version, but >> punctaform is one of the braille versions which was out around that time. >> If you read the book adjustment of the Blind, you can see the entire >> story about braille. I would have to go back into the book to be sure >> I was talking about the specific version in that part of the 19th >> century. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> christopher nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:27 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the >> education of its blind K-12 students >> >> What do you mean? What is punctaform? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 10, 2013, at 10:25 AM, justin williams >> >> wrote: >> >>> I think that is called punctaform. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> christopher nusbaum >>> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:21 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund >>> the education of its blind K-12 students >>> >>> Well, you know, Brandon, that Braille is slow and inefficient. It was >>> developed in the 19th century to serve the needs of the blind people >>> of that era. Therefore, it is no longer relevant to us in the >>> technology-driven 21st century. Besides, it was invented by a blind >>> student! We know that blind people are incapable of having the >>> creativity to invent anything, so why would we trust a system which >>> was invented by a 19th-century blind French teenager? Moreover, many >>> kids still have some vision. Given all this, it wouldn't be logical >>> to teach kids who still have a little usable vision an inferior >>> system of >> reading and writing that would in effect make them blind. >>> Even if the kids are totally blind, we can still use the tools of the >>> 21st century as a replacement for that tedious, outdated Braille code: >>> screen readers, talking books, screen magnification software, etc. >>> Right? >>> Wrong! >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 10, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Now this is awesome! >>>> I'm just baffled though, why was this made a problem in the first >>>> place? >>> Sighted kids get taught how to read, why not blind kids? >>>> and I think being a TVI is one of the most difficult jobs in the >>>> world and >>> to have so many kids that you are forced to cut your time to 30 >>> minutes a child a week is just insanity of the first level! >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Corbbmacc O'Connor (by way of David >>>> Andrews) >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:11 PM >>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the >>>> education of its blind K-12 students >>>> >>>> >>>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF VIRGINIA Dr. Fredric K. >>>> Schroeder, President >>>> 9522 Lagersfield Circle . Vienna, VA 22181 >>>> (703) 319-9226 . fschroeder at sks.com >>>> www.nfbv.org >>>> >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>>> >>>> CONTACT: Tracy Soforenko, (202) 285-4595, >>>> tracy.soforenko at verizon.net >>>> >>>> For the first time, Virginia will fully fund the education of its >>>> blind K-12 students Delegate Bob Brink to be honored for exceptional >>>> leadership >>>> >>>> ARLINGTON, Va. - Delegate Bob Brink (D-48), who led the advocacy to >>>> increase funding for teachers of blind students, will be recognized >>>> today with the Commonwealth Award by the National Federation of the >>>> Blind of Virginia (NFBV)-the Commonwealth's largest and oldest >>>> organization of blind people and the leading advocate for braille >>>> literacy. >>>> >>>> For years, the Virginia Department of Education has published >>>> Standards of Quality (SOQ), which define minimum student-teacher >>>> ratios and provide partial salary support to school divisions to >>>> fund special education teachers who work within Virginia's schools. >>>> Unfortunately, unlike all other disabilities, teachers for the blind >>>> were excluded from the SOQ, leading to enormous case loads in many >>>> school divisions. Through Delegate Brink's advocacy-supported by the >>>> National Federation of the Blind of Virginia-Governor McDonnell >>>> committed to fully fund the state share for staffing standards for >>>> blind and low vision students. The amended 2012-2014 budget >>>> addresses this inequality and funds teachers for Virginia's blind >>>> and low vision students. >>>> >>>> "Parents of blind children are frustrated that their children are >>>> not learning the blindness skills necessary to compete with their >>>> sighted peers," said NFBV President Dr. Fredric Schroeder. "We >>>> cannot expect students to learn braille and independent travel when >>>> teachers for the blind are forced to limit instruction to 30 minutes >>>> a > week. >>>> Because reading and writing is a fundamental skill for all students, >>>> we are excited that blind students will now receive the quality >>>> education that they deserve." >>>> >>>> Brink, who represents north Arlington and most of McLean, said, >>>> "This is a long overdue step for the 1,000-plus blind and low-vision >>>> students across Virginia who are blind or have low vision. >>>> The budget will provide $4.9 million funding to local school >>>> districts." >>>> >>>> The award ceremony is open to members of the media, and will feature >>>> remarks from Brink, a member of the Arlington County School Board, >>>> and advocates. It will be held May 9 at Tutto Bene Restaurant (501 N. >>>> Randolph St; Arlington) at 7 p.m. >>>> >>>> ### >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbigg >>>> s >>>> % >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>>> 0 >>>> g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >>> 4 >>> 0gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From gpaikens at gmail.com Sat May 11 02:53:55 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 22:53:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> <001d01ce4ded$3caf1c60$b60d5520$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <444649B9-703A-4FDA-912B-CA8AA88DBE92@gmail.com> I think its a lot more relaxed than you are making it. Most chapters would be happy to have an active member, even if only for half the year. I know people who are members of more than one chapter. There are members who are officers in other chapters who are also members of my chapter. Just go for it and get involved somewhere. I'm sure both or either chapter would be happy to have you. -Greg On May 10, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > Chris: It's not that; I know the chapter nearest to my school and as > said in my last email I have made contact with that chapter president > with this question. I'm confused on which one I should join, the one > nearest to my college or the one nearest to where I live back home. > Although for transportation reasons as the cities are an hour apart I > wouldn't be able to be an active member of either chapter throughout > the entire year, going to the one nearest to school seems like it > would make the most sense since I think I could independently get > myself there and back on campus for the months I'm in that city. But, > my question to that chapter president was more along the lines of > should I join that chapter since I'm from a city with an established > chapter of it's own. I'm just not really clear on what the rules for > chapter involvement are, or if such a thing as duel-membership exists. > > On 5/10/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Kaiti, >> >> You might contact your state affiliate President and ask him/her what the >> closest chapter is to your school. You may also be able to find this on >> your >> affiliate's Web site, as a list of chapters is usually put on affiliate Web >> sites. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton >> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:48 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >> >> I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter >> meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a while, >> but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses in the suburb >> where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go to school in a >> different city I'm not sure which chapter I should belong to. I brought >> this >> up to the president of tthe chapter where I go to school, bit he never got >> back to me on it. >> >> On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: >> >>> Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have >>> the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't have >>> a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't be >>> enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the >>> Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've gone >>> to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to attend more >>> meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get up on a >>> Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) for a >>> 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested in-not a >>> very easy thing to do. * Smile! * >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, >>>> I >>> don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the >>> two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could >>> become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, >>> especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Sophie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Darian Smith >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >>>> >>>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a >>> chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? >>>> If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know >>> where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your >>> chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made >>> you want to stick around? >>>> interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. >>>> Best, >>>> Darian >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat May 11 03:00:01 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 23:00:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> <001d01ce4ded$3caf1c60$b60d5520$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003401ce4df3$a1817290$e48457b0$@gmail.com> Kaiti, I don't think there are any set rules for chapter involvement, so you could join either or both. Your state President may be able to give you a more definitive answer on that. Also, do you have an at-large chapter in your state? This is a chapter which meets by conference call and whose members consist of people who don't have a physical chapter near them. If you can't get to either chapter's meetings conveniently, the at-large chapter may be a good option for you, if one exists in your state. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. Hi all, Chris: It's not that; I know the chapter nearest to my school and as said in my last email I have made contact with that chapter president with this question. I'm confused on which one I should join, the one nearest to my college or the one nearest to where I live back home. Although for transportation reasons as the cities are an hour apart I wouldn't be able to be an active member of either chapter throughout the entire year, going to the one nearest to school seems like it would make the most sense since I think I could independently get myself there and back on campus for the months I'm in that city. But, my question to that chapter president was more along the lines of should I join that chapter since I'm from a city with an established chapter of it's own. I'm just not really clear on what the rules for chapter involvement are, or if such a thing as duel-membership exists. On 5/10/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Kaiti, > > You might contact your state affiliate President and ask him/her what > the closest chapter is to your school. You may also be able to find > this on your affiliate's Web site, as a list of chapters is usually > put on affiliate Web sites. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:48 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > > I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter > meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a > while, but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses in > the suburb where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go to > school in a different city I'm not sure which chapter I should belong > to. I brought this up to the president of tthe chapter where I go to > school, bit he never got back to me on it. > > On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: > >> Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have >> the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't have >> a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't be >> enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the >> Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've >> gone to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to attend >> more meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get up on a >> Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) for a >> 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested in-not >> a very easy thing to do. * Smile! * >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist >> > >> wrote: >> >> > I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of >> > all, I >> don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the >> two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could >> become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, >> especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. >> > >> > Best, >> > Sophie >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Darian Smith >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >> > >> > Hi folks, >> > >> > I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a >> chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? >> > If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know >> where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in >> your chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything >> that made you want to stick around? >> > interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. >> > Best, >> > Darian >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> > r%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for >> nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >> g >> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> % >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat May 11 03:02:02 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 23:02:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: <444649B9-703A-4FDA-912B-CA8AA88DBE92@gmail.com> References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> <001d01ce4ded$3caf1c60$b60d5520$@gmail.com> <444649B9-703A-4FDA-912B-CA8AA88DBE92@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003501ce4df3$e9c11560$bd434020$@gmail.com> I agree with Greg. Honestly, you can be an at-large member of your state affiliate and be just as involved as some chapter officers. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Aikens Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. I think its a lot more relaxed than you are making it. Most chapters would be happy to have an active member, even if only for half the year. I know people who are members of more than one chapter. There are members who are officers in other chapters who are also members of my chapter. Just go for it and get involved somewhere. I'm sure both or either chapter would be happy to have you. -Greg On May 10, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > Chris: It's not that; I know the chapter nearest to my school and as > said in my last email I have made contact with that chapter president > with this question. I'm confused on which one I should join, the one > nearest to my college or the one nearest to where I live back home. > Although for transportation reasons as the cities are an hour apart I > wouldn't be able to be an active member of either chapter throughout > the entire year, going to the one nearest to school seems like it > would make the most sense since I think I could independently get > myself there and back on campus for the months I'm in that city. But, > my question to that chapter president was more along the lines of > should I join that chapter since I'm from a city with an established > chapter of it's own. I'm just not really clear on what the rules for > chapter involvement are, or if such a thing as duel-membership exists. > > On 5/10/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Kaiti, >> >> You might contact your state affiliate President and ask him/her what >> the closest chapter is to your school. You may also be able to find >> this on your affiliate's Web site, as a list of chapters is usually >> put on affiliate Web sites. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:48 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >> >> I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter >> meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a >> while, but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses >> in the suburb where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go >> to school in a different city I'm not sure which chapter I should >> belong to. I brought this up to the president of tthe chapter where I >> go to school, bit he never got back to me on it. >> >> On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: >> >>> Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have >>> the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't >>> have a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't >>> be enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the >>> Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've >>> gone to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to >>> attend more meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get >>> up on a Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) >>> for a 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested >>> in-not a very easy thing to do. * Smile! * >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of >>>> all, I >>> don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, >>> the two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I >>> could become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, >>> especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Sophie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Darian Smith >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >>>> >>>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a >>> chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? >>>> If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know >>> where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in >>> your chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything >>> that made you want to stick around? >>>> interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. >>>> Best, >>>> Darian >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>> 0g >>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10 >>> 4% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >> gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> %40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.c > om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From kaybaycar at gmail.com Sat May 11 03:08:26 2013 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 22:08:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: <444649B9-703A-4FDA-912B-CA8AA88DBE92@gmail.com> References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> <001d01ce4ded$3caf1c60$b60d5520$@gmail.com> <444649B9-703A-4FDA-912B-CA8AA88DBE92@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I think this would be a very interesting topic for a membership call. The problem Kaiti outlined has occurred in Missouri as well. In fact, I will soon be moving to a place for most of the year, but not the entire year because I will be going to grad school away from my home town. So I think this is a common problem with students. Some states have member-at-large chapters, but many do not. I think that also students are hesitant to join chapters because they are unsure of how they will be received. This can happen because of age differences perhaps or maybe simply because students feel more comfortable in their student division. These are just some things I've observed in getting to know students over the past couple years. I am a member of a chapter now and plan to change my membership to the chapter that exists where I will be attending grad school. On 5/10/13, Greg Aikens wrote: > I think its a lot more relaxed than you are making it. Most chapters would > be happy to have an active member, even if only for half the year. I know > people who are members of more than one chapter. There are members who are > officers in other chapters who are also members of my chapter. > > Just go for it and get involved somewhere. I'm sure both or either chapter > would be happy to have you. > > -Greg > > On May 10, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Kaiti Shelton > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Chris: It's not that; I know the chapter nearest to my school and as >> said in my last email I have made contact with that chapter president >> with this question. I'm confused on which one I should join, the one >> nearest to my college or the one nearest to where I live back home. >> Although for transportation reasons as the cities are an hour apart I >> wouldn't be able to be an active member of either chapter throughout >> the entire year, going to the one nearest to school seems like it >> would make the most sense since I think I could independently get >> myself there and back on campus for the months I'm in that city. But, >> my question to that chapter president was more along the lines of >> should I join that chapter since I'm from a city with an established >> chapter of it's own. I'm just not really clear on what the rules for >> chapter involvement are, or if such a thing as duel-membership exists. >> >> On 5/10/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> >>> You might contact your state affiliate President and ask him/her what >>> the >>> closest chapter is to your school. You may also be able to find this on >>> your >>> affiliate's Web site, as a list of chapters is usually put on affiliate >>> Web >>> sites. >>> >>> Hope this helps, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >>> >>> I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter >>> meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a >>> while, >>> but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses in the >>> suburb >>> where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go to school in a >>> different city I'm not sure which chapter I should belong to. I brought >>> this >>> up to the president of tthe chapter where I go to school, bit he never >>> got >>> back to me on it. >>> >>> On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: >>> >>>> Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have >>>> the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't have >>>> a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't be >>>> enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the >>>> Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've gone >>>> to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to attend more >>>> meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get up on a >>>> Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) for a >>>> 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested in-not a >>>> very easy thing to do. * Smile! * >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, >>>>> I >>>> don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the >>>> two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could >>>> become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, >>>> especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Sophie >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Darian Smith >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >>>>> >>>>> Hi folks, >>>>> >>>>> I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a >>>> chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? >>>>> If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know >>>> where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your >>>> chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made >>>> you want to stick around? >>>>> interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Darian >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat May 11 03:09:39 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 23:09:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating Folders in Pages for the iPad In-Reply-To: References: <6015422132917922029@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <003701ce4df4$f9fe3ab0$edfab010$@gmail.com> OK, thank you. Kaiti, thank you also for the information you provided. I will try that. Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne Germano Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 12:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating Folders in Pages for the iPad As far as i know there is no ability for a folder structure on the ipad. It does not have a directory structure like the hard drive of pc or mac On Wednesday, May 8, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Hi everyone, I have recently gotten an iPad 4 to be used for school. > The school system has already loaded this iPad with several apps which > I am currently learning to use, including the Pages word-processing > app. I'm currently able to create documents in Pages without any > difficulty. However, neither I nor my TVI can find anything in the app > to create folders. So, how do I create folders in Pages? After a > folder is created, how do I move documents into it? Any help with > these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat May 11 03:09:01 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 21:09:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: <003501ce4df3$e9c11560$bd434020$@gmail.com> References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> <001d01ce4ded$3caf1c60$b60d5520$@gmail.com> <444649B9-703A-4FDA-912B-CA8AA88DBE92@gmail.com> <003501ce4df3$e9c11560$bd434020$@gmail.com> Message-ID: It makes sense to join the chapter where you would be attending the most meetings. But as others have said, there aren't any strict rules about it. Arielle On 5/10/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > I agree with Greg. Honestly, you can be an at-large member of your state > affiliate and be just as involved as some chapter officers. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Aikens > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > > I think its a lot more relaxed than you are making it. Most chapters would > be happy to have an active member, even if only for half the year. I know > people who are members of more than one chapter. There are members who are > officers in other chapters who are also members of my chapter. > > Just go for it and get involved somewhere. I'm sure both or either chapter > would be happy to have you. > > -Greg > > On May 10, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Kaiti Shelton > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Chris: It's not that; I know the chapter nearest to my school and as >> said in my last email I have made contact with that chapter president >> with this question. I'm confused on which one I should join, the one >> nearest to my college or the one nearest to where I live back home. >> Although for transportation reasons as the cities are an hour apart I >> wouldn't be able to be an active member of either chapter throughout >> the entire year, going to the one nearest to school seems like it >> would make the most sense since I think I could independently get >> myself there and back on campus for the months I'm in that city. But, >> my question to that chapter president was more along the lines of >> should I join that chapter since I'm from a city with an established >> chapter of it's own. I'm just not really clear on what the rules for >> chapter involvement are, or if such a thing as duel-membership exists. >> >> On 5/10/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> >>> You might contact your state affiliate President and ask him/her what >>> the closest chapter is to your school. You may also be able to find >>> this on your affiliate's Web site, as a list of chapters is usually >>> put on affiliate Web sites. >>> >>> Hope this helps, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >>> >>> I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter >>> meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a >>> while, but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses >>> in the suburb where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go >>> to school in a different city I'm not sure which chapter I should >>> belong to. I brought this up to the president of tthe chapter where I >>> go to school, bit he never got back to me on it. >>> >>> On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: >>> >>>> Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have >>>> the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't >>>> have a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't >>>> be enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the >>>> Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've >>>> gone to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to >>>> attend more meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get >>>> up on a Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) >>>> for a 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested >>>> in-not a very easy thing to do. * Smile! * >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of >>>>> all, I >>>> don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, >>>> the two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I >>>> could become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, >>>> especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Sophie >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Darian Smith >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >>>>> >>>>> Hi folks, >>>>> >>>>> I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a >>>> chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? >>>>> If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know >>>> where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in >>>> your chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything >>>> that made you want to stick around? >>>>> interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Darian >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>>> 0g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10 >>>> 4% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >>> gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.c >> om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Sat May 11 17:15:47 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 12:15:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: You could find out when and where the chapter meets in the city in which you go to school, and show up. Dave At 09:47 AM 5/10/2013, you wrote: >I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter >meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a while, >but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses in the suburb >where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go to school in a >different city I'm not sure which chapter I should belong to. I brought >this up to the president of tthe chapter where I go to school, bit he never >got back to me on it. > >On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: > > > Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have > > the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't have > > a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't be > > enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the > > Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've gone > > to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to attend more > > meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get up on a > > Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) for a > > 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested in—not a > > very easy thing to do. * Smile! * > > > > Chris Nusbaum > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist > > > > wrote: > > > > > I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, I > > don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the two > > nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could become a > > member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, especially since I > > believe most meetings take place in the evenings. > > > > > > Best, > > > Sophie > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Darian Smith > > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 > > > Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a > > chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? > > > If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know > > where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your > > chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made you > > want to stick around? > > > interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. > > > Best, > > > Darian From dandrews at visi.com Sat May 11 17:17:00 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 12:17:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Many states now have "members at large" chapters that meet via phone, for people living outside chapter areas. Contact the state president in your state and see. Dave At 06:49 AM 5/10/2013, you wrote: >I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, >I don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, >the two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I >could become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, >especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. > >Best, >Sophie > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Darian Smith To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 >Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > >Hi folks, > >I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a >chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? >If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you >not know where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with >anyone in your chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find >anything that made you want to stick around? > interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. > Best, > Darian From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sat May 11 17:17:55 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 10:17:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: News and Notes from the community Service group. References: <8641087F-B6C9-441A-94E4-5966B8599BE5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Please past the following along to folks in your state who plan to be in Orlando for convention. Begin forwarded message: > From: Darian Smith > Subject: News and Notes from the community Service group. > Date: April 21, 2013 9:24:09 PM PDT > Cc: Darian Smith > > Hello, > We are getting ever so close to national Convention, and the community Service group wants you to be informed and encourages you to get involved! > We are going to have our seminar On Monday, July 1 from 7:45 - 10 p.m. > get there at 7:45 if you want to register and socialize. 8p.m. is when the meeting will begin. > if you have ideas for the agenda, or would like to speak on it regarding some awesome service work that you did, that you think might inspire folks to get out in their community and use their talents to help others then do let me know. > Also, we will be having a community service project this year, so please be on the lookout for that announcement. > If you are a person who believes passionately in community service, and wants to contribute in some way to the work that is done to change what it means to be blind by getting involved in the community or inspiring folks to get involved then please get a hold of me. > I can be reached at 415.215.9809 or dsmithnfb at gmail.com. > Regards, > Darian Smith From dandrews at visi.com Sat May 11 17:19:45 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 12:19:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> <001d01ce4ded$3caf1c60$b60d5520$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am not aware of any "rules" that govern what chapter you join, or join two, it is all the same organization. If it were me I would join the chapter that I could attend the most. Dave At 09:49 PM 5/10/2013, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Chris: It's not that; I know the chapter nearest to my school and as >said in my last email I have made contact with that chapter president >with this question. I'm confused on which one I should join, the one >nearest to my college or the one nearest to where I live back home. >Although for transportation reasons as the cities are an hour apart I >wouldn't be able to be an active member of either chapter throughout >the entire year, going to the one nearest to school seems like it >would make the most sense since I think I could independently get >myself there and back on campus for the months I'm in that city. But, >my question to that chapter president was more along the lines of >should I join that chapter since I'm from a city with an established >chapter of it's own. I'm just not really clear on what the rules for >chapter involvement are, or if such a thing as duel-membership exists. > >On 5/10/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > > Kaiti, > > > > You might contact your state affiliate President and ask him/her what the > > closest chapter is to your school. You may also be able to find this on > > your > > affiliate's Web site, as a list of chapters is usually put on affiliate Web > > sites. > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > Chris > > > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > > Public Relations Committee > > Maryland Association of Blind Students > > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:48 AM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > > > > I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter > > meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a while, > > but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses in the suburb > > where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go to school in a > > different city I'm not sure which chapter I should belong to. I brought > > this > > up to the president of tthe chapter where I go to school, bit he never got > > back to me on it. > > > > On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: > > > >> Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have > >> the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't have > >> a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't be > >> enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the > >> Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've gone > >> to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to attend more > >> meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get up on a > >> Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) for a > >> 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested in-not a > >> very easy thing to do. * Smile! * > >> > >> Chris Nusbaum > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist > >> > > >> wrote: > >> > >> > I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, > >> > I > >> don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the > >> two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could > >> become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, > >> especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. > >> > > >> > Best, > >> > Sophie > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Darian Smith > >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 > >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > >> > > >> > Hi folks, > >> > > >> > I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a > >> chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? > >> > If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know > >> where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your > >> chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made > >> you want to stick around? > >> > interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. > >> > Best, > >> > Darian > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> > for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >> > r%40gmail.com > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> > for > >> nabs-l: > >> > > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > >> 40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > > om > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > > >-- >Kaiti From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat May 11 18:53:53 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 12:53:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [SDS] Seeking participants for pilot study In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Steve Brown Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:37:03 -1000 Subject: [SDS] Seeking participants for pilot study To: SDS Aloha everyone. I'm working with a team here at the Center on Disability Studies to build a Virtual Employment Orientation, Resource, Support and Training Center, using the Second Life virtual world as a primary platform. We know not everyone can get on Second Life, so we will also mirror what's on the EmployAble site on the web. At this stage, we are recruiting pilot study participants. We'd appreciate it if you shared the information below with your colleagues, organizations, and anyone else in the U.S. (for now:) who would be appropriate. Thanks a lot! Steve *Virtual Employment Center for People with Disabilities Seeking Participants * We are pleased to announce that we are now seeking pilot study participants for “EmployAble: A World without Barriers,” a model virtual employment center for people with disabilities. EmployAble uses the virtual world platform Second Life to provide training, networking, mentoring and employment resources for people with disabilities and employers. EmployAble staff are recruiting persons with disabilities over the age of 18 to participate in a three month pilot study to evaluate the EmployAble Virtual Employment Orientation, Resource, Support, and Training Center site content, features, and use. We are especially interested in reaching out to veterans and those with Traumatic Brain Injuries. However, other individuals with disabilities may also participate. For more information about participation, please email employ at hawaii.edu or fill out a participant screening and pre-survey at http://www.cds.hawaii.edu/employable/pilot/. More information about the project can also be found on the website. EmployAble is funded by the Kessler Foundation (www.kesslerfoundation.org) and is a project of the University of Hawaii at Manoa Center on Disability Studies (www.cds.hawaii.edu). -- Steven E. Brown, Ph.D. Associate Professor 1776 University Ave., UA4-6 Center on Disability Studies University of Hawai‘i Honolulu, HI 96822-2313 808-956-0996 808-956-7878 (fax) www.cds.hawaii.edu Skype: stevenebrown Twitter: disculture Co-Founder: Institute on Disability Culture Website: www.instituteondisabilityculture.org (Undergoing (re-)construction) From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sat May 11 19:26:03 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 12:26:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The National Association of Blind Students Presents: The Basics of NFB Philosophy Message-ID: Greetings Fellow Students! We have all no doubt heard the term "Federation Philosophy" at one point or another, but how many of us can say that we truly understand it's meaning? Fortunately we have experienced leaders in the Federation to explain the basics of NFB Philosophy to those of us who really want to understand it, and are curious enough to ask questions. Join NABS as we welcome special guest presenter Pam Allen, President of the NFB of Louisiana, treasurer of the NFB board of directors, and Director of the Louisiana Center for the Blind (LCB) as we discuss what exactly is the philosophy of the national Federation of the Blind. We are excited to have such a respected and admired member of our movement taking time out of her evening to have this discussion, so we really hope you can join us. When: Thursday, May 16th, 2013. 9p.m. ET. Call: (605) - 475 - 6700 and enter code 7869673. Darian Smith 2nd Vice President, National Association of Blind Students dsmithnfb at gmail.com www.nabslink.org Follow the National Association of Blind Students on twitter: @nabslink From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun May 12 05:37:16 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 23:37:16 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Block quotes in e-mails Message-ID: Hi everyone, So I have a question that will probably seem absurd at first glance. How to I put block quotations in e-mail messages? I've seen it done before and I want to be able to replicate it. Best, Kirt From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Sun May 12 23:47:50 2013 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 19:47:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone Message-ID: Hi List, So I'm going to be getting an iPhone soon, and everything about it seems good to me. However, I am curious about how people handle sending text messages. I know some people buy a Bluetooth keyboard, but what are some other ways that you can text using the touch screen? Thanks, Patrick From ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com Sun May 12 23:53:12 2013 From: ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com (ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 17:53:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99AEB945-B9E6-4680-BD4B-03266F9E0008@gmail.com> Hi You could use the keyboard on the touch screen, or you can use a dictation which I just used for this email. You may have to edit the text when you use dictation. I hope this helps. Sent from my iPhone On May 12, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Patrick Molloy wrote: > Hi List, > So I'm going to be getting an iPhone soon, and everything about it > seems good to me. However, I am curious about how people handle > sending text messages. I know some people buy a Bluetooth keyboard, > but what are some other ways that you can text using the touch screen? > Thanks, Patrick > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ichoosechrist2%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Sat May 11 23:58:33 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 19:58:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: <99AEB945-B9E6-4680-BD4B-03266F9E0008@gmail.com> References: <99AEB945-B9E6-4680-BD4B-03266F9E0008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00e501ce4ea3$72872ba0$579582e0$@gmail.com> What software does the dictation? Do you mean siri? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 7:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone Hi You could use the keyboard on the touch screen, or you can use a dictation which I just used for this email. You may have to edit the text when you use dictation. I hope this helps. Sent from my iPhone On May 12, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Patrick Molloy wrote: > Hi List, > So I'm going to be getting an iPhone soon, and everything about it > seems good to me. However, I am curious about how people handle > sending text messages. I know some people buy a Bluetooth keyboard, > but what are some other ways that you can text using the touch screen? > Thanks, Patrick > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ichoosechrist2%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From iperrault at hotmail.com Sun May 12 23:55:15 2013 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 19:55:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Patrick Texting on the IPhone is great. Yes, you can buy a bluetooth keyboard, I have one. But you can also press dictate, and just dictate your text messages. Or, you can feel around the keyboard, and when you find the letter you want, double-tap it and it will be inserted. Tedious process, but with auto-correct it can be duable. Ian From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon May 13 00:02:28 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 20:02:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good evening, no, dictation is separate from Siri. The software is built directly into the operating system. Sent from my iPhone On May 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, "Ian Perrault" wrote: > > Hi Patrick > Texting on the IPhone is great. Yes, you can buy a bluetooth keyboard, I have one. But you can also press dictate, and just dictate your text messages. Or, you can feel around the keyboard, and when you find the letter you want, double-tap it and it will be inserted. Tedious process, but with auto-correct it can be duable. > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 13 01:06:23 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 21:06:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, I have an IPhone and have used the touch screen for everything. (I have a 4 so I don't have Siri or dictation until I get an upgrade). There are a few settings you can change on your phone to make using the touch screen on the IPhone much like the experience a sighted person has, and it makes the process a lot less tedious. 1. Change the typing mode to touch typing by going into messages, double tapping the edit field to bring up the keyboard, and making the roter motion until you hear it say typing mode. Swipe up or down with one finger till you hear touch typing instead of standard. Touch typing allows you to input letters by just touching it and lifting your finger off of the screen. Voiceover still announces the letter your finger is over, but instead of double tapping to select it you can just lift off. 2. Change voice over to only speak characters, or nothing at all in terms of feedback. I like having characters spoken to me so I can hear if I make mistakes, but having it speak words can slow it down. 3. Change the voice to compact mode. I resisted this for about a year and a half, but it really does speed up your phone dramatically. I've found it has a big difference on how fast I can touch type, and now the time it takes me to send a text message is comparable to some of my slower sighted friends. It's not quite the same since we still have to hear what we're doing, but it's about as fast as we can get by using the touch screen. Hope these help. On 5/12/13, Josh Gregory wrote: > Good evening, no, dictation is separate from Siri. The software is built > directly into the operating system. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, "Ian Perrault" wrote: > >> >> Hi Patrick >> Texting on the IPhone is great. Yes, you can buy a bluetooth keyboard, I >> have one. But you can also press dictate, and just dictate your text >> messages. Or, you can feel around the keyboard, and when you find the >> letter you want, double-tap it and it will be inserted. Tedious process, >> but with auto-correct it can be duable. >> Ian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From djdan567 at gmail.com Mon May 13 01:15:45 2013 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 21:15:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Patrick, you can use dictation, you can get a bluetooth keyboard, there's also a couple of other solutions. First is a tactile screen protector from a company named SpeedDots. They have two styles. One where it has dots located on the function buttons you would be using the most, and dots on the F, and J keys on the screen. Or, another one for beginners where there is a dot located on every single letter so that you can get familiar with the location of the letters, and learn the spacing. So that once you get better, you can take it off and you'll be quicker. There are two typing modes on the iPhone. One is the standerd typing which is when you find the letter you want, and you double tap, or the touch typing where you find the letter with your finger, and lift your finger then the letter will be entered. There's also an app called, 'flexy' which allows you to type freely where you think the letters are located, and will recognize and will give you options of words to choose from in the event you don't get the typing anywhere close. http://speeddots.com/ That is the URL to the page where you can purchase the tactile screen protector of choice. I hope this helped! Glad you're getting the iPhone. It's a great investment. On 5/12/13, Patrick Molloy wrote: > Hi List, > So I'm going to be getting an iPhone soon, and everything about it > seems good to me. However, I am curious about how people handle > sending text messages. I know some people buy a Bluetooth keyboard, > but what are some other ways that you can text using the touch screen? > Thanks, Patrick > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > -- Daniel C. Romero Bergen Community College '14 Host, imager, and producer, The Dan ShowLive Cell: 973-842-1600 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/djdan567 Twitter: @Djdan567 From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Mon May 13 01:50:40 2013 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 21:50:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kaiti, Just out of curiosity, what exactly does it mean to set Voiceover to compact mode? Does doing so make the speech sound different, and in what way does it make texting more efficient? I use an IPod Touch and am a faithful follower of your first two suggestions, but I'm not familiar with the compact mode feature. In response to Patrick's question, all of the solutions that have been suggested so far are good alternatives. Another possibility I thought worth mentioning is an app called Braille Touch. It is based on a similar concept as Flexi - If you hold your phone in landscape mode with the screen facing away from you and place your fingers as you would on a 6-dot braille keyboard, you can generate text using uncontracted braille in this app. The text can then be copied and pasted into the body of an email or a text message. The full version is $19.99 so definitely on the pricy side, but I personally find it a worthwhile investment. There is a free trial version if you want to check it out before making the purchase. Hope this helps! Katie On 5/12/13, Daniel Romero wrote: > Patrick, you can use dictation, you can get a bluetooth keyboard, > there's also a couple of other solutions. First is a tactile screen > protector from a company named SpeedDots. They have two styles. One > where it has dots located on the function buttons you would be using > the most, and dots on the F, and J keys on the screen. Or, another one > for beginners where there is a dot located on every single letter so > that you can get familiar with the location of the letters, and learn > the spacing. So that once you get better, you can take it off and > you'll be quicker. There are two typing modes on the iPhone. One is > the standerd typing which is when you find the letter you want, and > you double tap, or the touch typing where you find the letter with > your finger, and lift your finger then the letter will be entered. > There's also an app called, 'flexy' which allows you to type freely > where you think the letters are located, and will recognize and will > give you options of words to choose from in the event you don't get > the typing anywhere close. > > http://speeddots.com/ > > That is the URL to the page where you can purchase the tactile screen > protector of choice. > > I hope this helped! Glad you're getting the iPhone. It's a great > investment. > > On 5/12/13, Patrick Molloy wrote: >> Hi List, >> So I'm going to be getting an iPhone soon, and everything about it >> seems good to me. However, I am curious about how people handle >> sending text messages. I know some people buy a Bluetooth keyboard, >> but what are some other ways that you can text using the touch screen? >> Thanks, Patrick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C. Romero > Bergen Community College '14 > Host, imager, and producer, The Dan ShowLive > Cell: 973-842-1600 > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/djdan567 > Twitter: @Djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Sun May 12 01:54:57 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 21:54:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001001ce4eb3$b54b3340$1fe199c0$@gmail.com> Is compact mode on the eye phone five? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone Hi all, I have an IPhone and have used the touch screen for everything. (I have a 4 so I don't have Siri or dictation until I get an upgrade). There are a few settings you can change on your phone to make using the touch screen on the IPhone much like the experience a sighted person has, and it makes the process a lot less tedious. 1. Change the typing mode to touch typing by going into messages, double tapping the edit field to bring up the keyboard, and making the roter motion until you hear it say typing mode. Swipe up or down with one finger till you hear touch typing instead of standard. Touch typing allows you to input letters by just touching it and lifting your finger off of the screen. Voiceover still announces the letter your finger is over, but instead of double tapping to select it you can just lift off. 2. Change voice over to only speak characters, or nothing at all in terms of feedback. I like having characters spoken to me so I can hear if I make mistakes, but having it speak words can slow it down. 3. Change the voice to compact mode. I resisted this for about a year and a half, but it really does speed up your phone dramatically. I've found it has a big difference on how fast I can touch type, and now the time it takes me to send a text message is comparable to some of my slower sighted friends. It's not quite the same since we still have to hear what we're doing, but it's about as fast as we can get by using the touch screen. Hope these help. On 5/12/13, Josh Gregory wrote: > Good evening, no, dictation is separate from Siri. The software is > built directly into the operating system. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, "Ian Perrault" wrote: > >> >> Hi Patrick >> Texting on the IPhone is great. Yes, you can buy a bluetooth >> keyboard, I have one. But you can also press dictate, and just >> dictate your text messages. Or, you can feel around the keyboard, and >> when you find the letter you want, double-tap it and it will be >> inserted. Tedious process, but with auto-correct it can be duable. >> Ian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >> l.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon May 13 02:05:15 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 19:05:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone list for blind users? Message-ID: <9073DE2732C64D9F937B17A7065AE6C7@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I'm wondering what list people recommend for me? I just got an IPhone and would like a place where I can be coached on what to do and get for my new device. For example, in creating my ID on the phone I was told the missing info was in Red, and I'm not sure how I can see that. Also, when I went to create my ID on the computer, they had a capcha without an audio option. But I see there are multiple IPhone lists, and I'm wondering if anyone can tell me the properties of each list. I'm rather tecky once I get into a unit, but I'm the fastest person at finding bugs and the slowest at finding work arounds. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon May 13 02:13:28 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 22:13:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone list for blind users? In-Reply-To: <9073DE2732C64D9F937B17A7065AE6C7@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <9073DE2732C64D9F937B17A7065AE6C7@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <-8603464152225527354@unknownmsgid> Brandon, I would recommend Accessible iOS. To subscribe, email accessible-iOS+subscribe at googlegroups.com. If you have any questions, please also feel free to write me off list. Good luck! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 12, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I'm wondering what list people recommend for me? I just got an IPhone and would like a place where I can be coached on what to do and get for my new device. > For example, in creating my ID on the phone I was told the missing info was in Red, and I'm not sure how I can see that. Also, when I went to create my ID on the computer, they had a capcha without an audio option. > But I see there are multiple IPhone lists, and I'm wondering if anyone can tell me the properties of each list. > I'm rather tecky once I get into a unit, but I'm the fastest person at finding bugs and the slowest at finding work arounds. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon May 13 02:23:24 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 20:23:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone list for blind users? In-Reply-To: <-8603464152225527354@unknownmsgid> References: <9073DE2732C64D9F937B17A7065AE6C7@BrandonsLaptop2> <-8603464152225527354@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: This isn't a list, per se, but I'd recommend applevis. The url is http://www.applevis.com On 5/12/13, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Brandon, > > I would recommend Accessible iOS. To subscribe, email > accessible-iOS+subscribe at googlegroups.com. If you have any questions, > please also feel free to write me off list. Good luck! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 12, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > >> Hello, >> I'm wondering what list people recommend for me? I just got an IPhone and >> would like a place where I can be coached on what to do and get for my new >> device. >> For example, in creating my ID on the phone I was told the missing info >> was in Red, and I'm not sure how I can see that. Also, when I went to >> create my ID on the computer, they had a capcha without an audio option. >> But I see there are multiple IPhone lists, and I'm wondering if anyone can >> tell me the properties of each list. >> I'm rather tecky once I get into a unit, but I'm the fastest person at >> finding bugs and the slowest at finding work arounds. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon May 13 02:24:04 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 19:24:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: <001001ce4eb3$b54b3340$1fe199c0$@gmail.com> References: <001001ce4eb3$b54b3340$1fe199c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, How do you get compact mode? I'm looking on my new phone and under voice over I see no option for changing the voices or anything. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: justin williams Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:54 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone Is compact mode on the eye phone five? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone Hi all, I have an IPhone and have used the touch screen for everything. (I have a 4 so I don't have Siri or dictation until I get an upgrade). There are a few settings you can change on your phone to make using the touch screen on the IPhone much like the experience a sighted person has, and it makes the process a lot less tedious. 1. Change the typing mode to touch typing by going into messages, double tapping the edit field to bring up the keyboard, and making the roter motion until you hear it say typing mode. Swipe up or down with one finger till you hear touch typing instead of standard. Touch typing allows you to input letters by just touching it and lifting your finger off of the screen. Voiceover still announces the letter your finger is over, but instead of double tapping to select it you can just lift off. 2. Change voice over to only speak characters, or nothing at all in terms of feedback. I like having characters spoken to me so I can hear if I make mistakes, but having it speak words can slow it down. 3. Change the voice to compact mode. I resisted this for about a year and a half, but it really does speed up your phone dramatically. I've found it has a big difference on how fast I can touch type, and now the time it takes me to send a text message is comparable to some of my slower sighted friends. It's not quite the same since we still have to hear what we're doing, but it's about as fast as we can get by using the touch screen. Hope these help. On 5/12/13, Josh Gregory wrote: > Good evening, no, dictation is separate from Siri. The software is > built directly into the operating system. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, "Ian Perrault" wrote: > >> >> Hi Patrick >> Texting on the IPhone is great. Yes, you can buy a bluetooth >> keyboard, I have one. But you can also press dictate, and just >> dictate your text messages. Or, you can feel around the keyboard, and >> when you find the letter you want, double-tap it and it will be >> inserted. Tedious process, but with auto-correct it can be duable. >> Ian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >> l.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon May 13 10:45:13 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 06:45:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone list for blind users? In-Reply-To: References: <9073DE2732C64D9F937B17A7065AE6C7@BrandonsLaptop2> <-8603464152225527354@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <8555531831082286982@unknownmsgid> Yes, this is a great resource. There is also the getting started with the iPhone book, which you can buy from national braille press. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 12, 2013, at 10:24 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > This isn't a list, per se, but I'd recommend applevis. The url is > http://www.applevis.com > > On 5/12/13, christopher nusbaum wrote: >> Brandon, >> >> I would recommend Accessible iOS. To subscribe, email >> accessible-iOS+subscribe at googlegroups.com. If you have any questions, >> please also feel free to write me off list. Good luck! >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 12, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I'm wondering what list people recommend for me? I just got an IPhone and >>> would like a place where I can be coached on what to do and get for my new >>> device. >>> For example, in creating my ID on the phone I was told the missing info >>> was in Red, and I'm not sure how I can see that. Also, when I went to >>> create my ID on the computer, they had a capcha without an audio option. >>> But I see there are multiple IPhone lists, and I'm wondering if anyone can >>> tell me the properties of each list. >>> I'm rather tecky once I get into a unit, but I'm the fastest person at >>> finding bugs and the slowest at finding work arounds. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon May 13 10:47:16 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 06:47:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: References: <001001ce4eb3$b54b3340$1fe199c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <-2797072923736850280@unknownmsgid> Do you mean compact voice? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 12, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > How do you get compact mode? > I'm looking on my new phone and under voice over I see no option for changing the voices or anything. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: justin williams > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:54 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone > > Is compact mode on the eye phone five? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone > > Hi all, > > I have an IPhone and have used the touch screen for everything. (I have a 4 > so I don't have Siri or dictation until I get an upgrade). > There are a few settings you can change on your phone to make using the > touch screen on the IPhone much like the experience a sighted person has, > and it makes the process a lot less tedious. > > 1. Change the typing mode to touch typing by going into messages, double > tapping the edit field to bring up the keyboard, and making the roter motion > until you hear it say typing mode. Swipe up or down with one finger till > you hear touch typing instead of standard. Touch typing allows you to input > letters by just touching it and lifting your finger off of the screen. > Voiceover still announces the letter your finger is over, but instead of > double tapping to select it you can just lift off. > 2. Change voice over to only speak characters, or nothing at all in terms of > feedback. I like having characters spoken to me so I can hear if I make > mistakes, but having it speak words can slow it down. > 3. Change the voice to compact mode. I resisted this for about a year and > a half, but it really does speed up your phone dramatically. > I've found it has a big difference on how fast I can touch type, and now the > time it takes me to send a text message is comparable to some of my slower > sighted friends. It's not quite the same since we still have to hear what > we're doing, but it's about as fast as we can get by using the touch screen. > > Hope these help. > > On 5/12/13, Josh Gregory wrote: >> Good evening, no, dictation is separate from Siri. The software is >> built directly into the operating system. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, "Ian Perrault" wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Patrick >>> Texting on the IPhone is great. Yes, you can buy a bluetooth >>> keyboard, I have one. But you can also press dictate, and just >>> dictate your text messages. Or, you can feel around the keyboard, and >>> when you find the letter you want, double-tap it and it will be >>> inserted. Tedious process, but with auto-correct it can be duable. >>> Ian >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>> l.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Mon May 13 12:52:01 2013 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 07:52:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Video Message-ID: <8DC5BF3943094D18A02D7E2454CECC36@Gloria> Hello all, I am putting togeth a presentation that looks at violence towards persons with physicals and its effects. I am wanting to find a short video clip that may show a violent act aginst a person with a physical disability to start my presentation as a sort of eye catcher. Can anyone help? Thanks, Gloria From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 13 13:15:09 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 09:15:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: <-2797072923736850280@unknownmsgid> References: <001001ce4eb3$b54b3340$1fe199c0$@gmail.com> <-2797072923736850280@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi all, Sorry. I meant compact voice. It's under settings, general, accessibility, and voiceover. You have to scroll down to the options which include typing feedback, use pitch change, use phonetics and it's in that sort of cluster of options. It does change the voice slightly, but even if you hate it at first like I did you can get used to it and it really does speed up the IPhone's response. On 5/13/13, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Do you mean compact voice? > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 12, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > >> Hello, >> How do you get compact mode? >> I'm looking on my new phone and under voice over I see no option for >> changing the voices or anything. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: justin williams >> Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:54 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone >> >> Is compact mode on the eye phone five? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone >> >> Hi all, >> >> I have an IPhone and have used the touch screen for everything. (I have a >> 4 >> so I don't have Siri or dictation until I get an upgrade). >> There are a few settings you can change on your phone to make using the >> touch screen on the IPhone much like the experience a sighted person has, >> and it makes the process a lot less tedious. >> >> 1. Change the typing mode to touch typing by going into messages, double >> tapping the edit field to bring up the keyboard, and making the roter >> motion >> until you hear it say typing mode. Swipe up or down with one finger till >> you hear touch typing instead of standard. Touch typing allows you to >> input >> letters by just touching it and lifting your finger off of the screen. >> Voiceover still announces the letter your finger is over, but instead of >> double tapping to select it you can just lift off. >> 2. Change voice over to only speak characters, or nothing at all in terms >> of >> feedback. I like having characters spoken to me so I can hear if I make >> mistakes, but having it speak words can slow it down. >> 3. Change the voice to compact mode. I resisted this for about a year >> and >> a half, but it really does speed up your phone dramatically. >> I've found it has a big difference on how fast I can touch type, and now >> the >> time it takes me to send a text message is comparable to some of my >> slower >> sighted friends. It's not quite the same since we still have to hear >> what >> we're doing, but it's about as fast as we can get by using the touch >> screen. >> >> Hope these help. >> >> On 5/12/13, Josh Gregory wrote: >>> Good evening, no, dictation is separate from Siri. The software is >>> built directly into the operating system. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, "Ian Perrault" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi Patrick >>>> Texting on the IPhone is great. Yes, you can buy a bluetooth >>>> keyboard, I have one. But you can also press dictate, and just >>>> dictate your text messages. Or, you can feel around the keyboard, and >>>> when you find the letter you want, double-tap it and it will be >>>> inserted. Tedious process, but with auto-correct it can be duable. >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>>> l.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 13 13:22:32 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 09:22:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Working around internet access on college campuses Message-ID: Hi all, Last year I was not able to use the wireless on my BrailleSense while at school. My university network requires that computers use the Cisco Nac Agent to log into the network. They do keep a list or database or something of the access keys for things like XBox360 systems that wouldn't be able to log on using the Nac Agent and I asked that my BrailleSense be added to this list. After it still didn't work I checked with the IT people, even had them read back the access key to me over the phone so I know it's there, but my BrailleSense was still not able to connect to the internet. It's not a huge deal because like last year I'll probably have my laptop with me all the time this year, and could use Safari on my IPhone if I don't and need to look something up in a pinch, but it would nice to not have to get the laptop out all the time or take it to every class when the much-smaller BrailleSense could do the job. I'm curious if anyone else has worked around this with their university. Thanks, -- Kaiti From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon May 13 19:52:43 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 13:52:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] citation question Message-ID: Hi all, I'm unsure if any of you know the answer to this, but hoping that you could either find the answer for me or send this to someone who would know. On the NFB website there is a fact sheet about blindness, which states that according to a recent Gallup poll, blindness is the third most feared "disease" among Americans, surpassed only by AIDS and cancer. I've heard that statistic several times but can't find the citation for the actual Gallup poll where this was reported. I'd like to include this statistic in an academic article I am writing about blindness simulations and it would be great if I could cite the original Gallup poll. Could anyone please send me the primary citation for this fact, or at least an academic source where this fact is stated? Thanks! Arielle From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Mon May 13 20:02:30 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 16:02:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] citation question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle , Have you tried contacting someone from the national center about this? It would seem to me that whoever wrote the factsheet would have the original source for this information. Although, I am rather surprised that the source for this information is not listed on the factsheet itself. Good luck, Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arielle Silverman" Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:52 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" ; Subject: [nabs-l] citation question > Hi all, > I'm unsure if any of you know the answer to this, but hoping that you > could either find the answer for me or send this to someone who would > know. On the NFB website there is a fact sheet about blindness, which > states that according to a recent Gallup poll, blindness is the third > most feared "disease" among Americans, surpassed only by AIDS and > cancer. I've heard that statistic several times but can't find the > citation for the actual Gallup poll where this was reported. I'd like > to include this statistic in an academic article I am writing about > blindness simulations and it would be great if I could cite the > original Gallup poll. Could anyone please send me the primary citation > for this fact, or at least an academic source where this fact is > stated? Thanks! > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon May 13 20:10:54 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 14:10:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] citation question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No sources are listed on the fact sheet. Does anyone know who at national would be coordinating this information? Arielle On 5/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > Hi Arielle , > > Have you tried contacting someone from the national center about this? It > would seem to me that whoever wrote the factsheet would have the original > source for this information. Although, I am rather surprised that the source > > for this information is not listed on the factsheet itself. > > Good luck, > Elizabeth > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:52 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind > children)" ; > Subject: [nabs-l] citation question > >> Hi all, >> I'm unsure if any of you know the answer to this, but hoping that you >> could either find the answer for me or send this to someone who would >> know. On the NFB website there is a fact sheet about blindness, which >> states that according to a recent Gallup poll, blindness is the third >> most feared "disease" among Americans, surpassed only by AIDS and >> cancer. I've heard that statistic several times but can't find the >> citation for the actual Gallup poll where this was reported. I'd like >> to include this statistic in an academic article I am writing about >> blindness simulations and it would be great if I could cite the >> original Gallup poll. Could anyone please send me the primary citation >> for this fact, or at least an academic source where this fact is >> stated? Thanks! >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Mon May 13 20:34:07 2013 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 16:34:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] citation question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Probably Chris Danielsen would know at least where to look. On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > No sources are listed on the fact sheet. Does anyone know who at > national would be coordinating this information? > Arielle > > On 5/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >> Hi Arielle , >> >> Have you tried contacting someone from the national center about this? It >> would seem to me that whoever wrote the factsheet would have the original >> source for this information. Although, I am rather surprised that the >> source >> >> for this information is not listed on the factsheet itself. >> >> Good luck, >> Elizabeth >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:52 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> ; "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind >> children)" ; >> Subject: [nabs-l] citation question >> >>> Hi all, >>> I'm unsure if any of you know the answer to this, but hoping that you >>> could either find the answer for me or send this to someone who would >>> know. On the NFB website there is a fact sheet about blindness, which >>> states that according to a recent Gallup poll, blindness is the third >>> most feared "disease" among Americans, surpassed only by AIDS and >>> cancer. I've heard that statistic several times but can't find the >>> citation for the actual Gallup poll where this was reported. I'd like >>> to include this statistic in an academic article I am writing about >>> blindness simulations and it would be great if I could cite the >>> original Gallup poll. Could anyone please send me the primary citation >>> for this fact, or at least an academic source where this fact is >>> stated? Thanks! >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." — Maya Angelou From djd76257 at gmail.com Mon May 13 20:34:55 2013 From: djd76257 at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 16:34:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Calling All Students, Creative Minds Are Wanted Message-ID: <2F6055BCF09C49F286376B8F42D3448B@WildJasmine> Hi! I'm posting this one time and one time only. If the below content interests you, please email me at daviddunphy at audioaccess.fm Details are below: Hello There! I am David Dunphy, and I want to give to the people around me. I don't want tojust entertain. I want to give something to you that will truly belong to you, the listener to my station online! Let me clarify what I mean. OK, so you read all these email lists, check your facebook, look at twitter, and in doing so, you've probably seen things like... Join me at the top of the hour for my show on.... followed by a web site and a url to connect and listen. Hell, even I've done that with Audio Access FM. Throw in the fact that there are so many online stations out there, how do you find one for you? Even services like Pandora, while they're good, will sometimes play stuff you don't like even on your own customized station. Of course, all the commercial radio stations and others say contact us with suggestions, feedbac, etc.. But how much is your feedback really taken into consideration? All commercial stations are going to do is provide content that will appeal to advertisers, and most online radio stations just do what they think will work. But is what you want to say being heard? Do you really know? Now, what if a station literally came to you for help? What if you could be part of the team that helps a station to develop its lineup of programming and format? What if you could go through the process of giving the station people your ideas and helping them to test, formulate, then execute ideas, suggestions, types of entertainment you'd like, etc so you'd always know that this would be truly your station...A place based on your ideas, thoughts, viewpoints, likes/dislikes, etc? The time has come for imagination, creative listeners, and lovers of radio to join forces to take a small house and turn it into a spacious place to live. Tonight on Audio Access FM, join us first at the special time of 6:45PM eastern for Pop Tops with Dennis. Then at 7:45PM eastern, a very important announcement, the most important announcement ever made in the radio life of Audio Access FM will be made, and you need to either be there to embark on a technological adventure unlike any other. Or email David Dunphy at daviddunphy at audioaccess.fm so you can receive a downloadable copy of the announcement. Only request a copy if interested, so that only people who want to hear what has to be said get the audio note. This announcement will tell you how you can take Audio Access FM in its most basic form, and turn it into the station of the future, the most innovative place of entertainment around, and so much more! And when all that ends, take your opportunity to hear some great music, and interact live with David and his friends, as he presents The Djd Invasion show at 8 PM eastern tonight! The Djd Invasion is an internet radio show where listeners get to interact on air, make requests, hear all kinds of pop/rock/country songs and so much more! During the invasion, the host can be contacted via email at daviddunphy at audioaccess.fm Via skype at audio.accessfm Via phone at 516 324 2314 Or via twitter at audioaccessfm or djdrocks So whether you want a course in pop history at 6:45PM eastern, a chance to create something that you can truly call your own at 7:45PM eastern, or hear some great music at 8 PM eastern, tune at or in between any of the above times to Audio Access FM by going to http://www.audioaccess.fm/broadband.php or by putting the following url into your player of choice: http://199.180.72.17:8012 And don't forget, if you can't make tonight's announcement, but want to hear what is on my mind and give support, request a downloadble copy by emailing daviddunphy at audioaccess.fm Hope to see you there! Tonight's going to be the start of something special! From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon May 13 21:18:31 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 14:18:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7D20F7A5-F23A-49D5-AB41-F5F16AEF4D1D@gmail.com> HI Sophie, our local chapters are open to blind people of all ages, as well they are open to sighted folks of all ages. The only requirement (it hardly becomes an issue) is that our chapters be mainly composed of blind individuals, and that the primaryr leadership offices are held by blind people. Does your state have an at-large chapter? On May 10, 2013, at 4:49 AM, Sophie Trist wrote: > I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, I don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. > > Best, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Darian Smith To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 > Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. > > Hi folks, > > I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? > If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made you want to stick around? > interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. > Best, > Darian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon May 13 21:29:46 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 14:29:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. In-Reply-To: References: <518cdefe.24c8ec0a.2091.ffffad81@mx.google.com> <-915808251028143501@unknownmsgid> <001d01ce4ded$3caf1c60$b60d5520$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <93A03D6B-0880-42DA-B7D0-41852600D47B@gmail.com> Hi all (Yep, I am catching up on the thread). You are always welcome to join as menu chapters as you like. I am a member of the east bay chapter of the NFB of California, and hold an office in the San Francisco chapter in the same affiliate. So, be involved in both and go to the one that you can make it to. because chapters love new members, and appreciate younger members for sure. To the matter of not being able to get a hold of the president, I would probably just show up to the meeting if I had time and felt confident enough with my travel skills to do it. I hope that helps Darian On May 10, 2013, at 7:49 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > Chris: It's not that; I know the chapter nearest to my school and as > said in my last email I have made contact with that chapter president > with this question. I'm confused on which one I should join, the one > nearest to my college or the one nearest to where I live back home. > Although for transportation reasons as the cities are an hour apart I > wouldn't be able to be an active member of either chapter throughout > the entire year, going to the one nearest to school seems like it > would make the most sense since I think I could independently get > myself there and back on campus for the months I'm in that city. But, > my question to that chapter president was more along the lines of > should I join that chapter since I'm from a city with an established > chapter of it's own. I'm just not really clear on what the rules for > chapter involvement are, or if such a thing as duel-membership exists. > > On 5/10/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Kaiti, >> >> You might contact your state affiliate President and ask him/her what the >> closest chapter is to your school. You may also be able to find this on >> your >> affiliate's Web site, as a list of chapters is usually put on affiliate Web >> sites. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton >> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:48 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >> >> I would love to be part of one. I did go to a few Cincinnati chapter >> meetings when I was in high school and was a due paying member for a while, >> but since both my parents worked late and there are no buses in the suburb >> where I live getting downtown wad hard. Now that I go to school in a >> different city I'm not sure which chapter I should belong to. I brought >> this >> up to the president of tthe chapter where I go to school, bit he never got >> back to me on it. >> >> On Friday, May 10, 2013, christopher nusbaum wrote: >> >>> Sophie, yes; teens are welcome to become members of chapters! I have >>> the same problem with our local chapter. Unfortunately, we don't have >>> a chapter in our part of Maryland, and there probably wouldn't be >>> enough blind people to start one. The nearest chapter to us, the >>> Greater Baltimore chapter, meets about an hour away from me. I've gone >>> to a few meetings and am a due-paying member. I'd love to attend more >>> meetings, but would have to convince my parents to get up on a >>> Saturday morning and drive me to Baltimore (an hour's drive) for a >>> 2-hour meeting that they probably wouldn't even be interested in-not a >>> very easy thing to do. * Smile! * >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 10, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Sophie Trist >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, >>>> I >>> don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the >>> two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could >>> become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, >>> especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Sophie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Darian Smith >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:35:29 -0700 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. >>>> >>>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> I was wondering if any of you are currently active members of a >>> chapter. If so, how do you like it? how did you find that chapter? >>>> If you are not members of a chapter, why aren't you? do you not know >>> where a chapter is? do you think you won't connect with anyone in your >>> chapter? have you given it a try but didn't find anything that made >>> you want to stick around? >>>> interested to hear what you fine folks have to say. >>>> Best, >>>> Darian >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon May 13 22:36:08 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 15:36:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? Message-ID: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> Hi all, Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to dance? are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? Thanks! Darian From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Sun May 12 22:59:16 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 18:59:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; however, there are just times in social situations where you just have to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach you. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? Hi all, Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to dance? are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? Thanks! Darian _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From pgradioman at hotmail.com Tue May 14 00:08:59 2013 From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 20:08:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Daryian and all: Yes, I do partake in many social events with dancing in them, esspecially at my school (E.G) Homecomming, prom, etc. I have my own dance moves that I do, and everyone is very impressed by them! I really enjoy dancing!! Hope this helps answer your question. Take care, Preston Sent from my iPod On May 13, 2013, at 6:37 PM, "Darian Smith" wrote: > Hi all, > Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? > Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to dance? are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? > On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? > Thanks! > > Darian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 00:10:23 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 17:10:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake in alcoholic beverages? I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to other ways you might go about it? Thanks Justin! Darian On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams wrote: > Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes > keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. > Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; however, > there are just times in social situations where you just have to shake a > leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with the > beat. There are a lot of other people out there with you who can't dance > either. They also look terrible. If you drink, it loosen's you up just a > little. It doen't make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just a > little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good at it. The > appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are actually enjoying your self, > lets everyone see that you are confident; you can't dance and you know it, > but you don't care. It helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you > accept I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the > dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a > group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to > dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > Hi all, > Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious about how > you all go about attending social functions where dancing is a part of the > atmosphere? > Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to dance? > are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? > On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot of > folks do and watch it on television or the internet? > Thanks! > > Darian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon May 13 00:25:59 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 20:25:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a little, and is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so you can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the white belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't drink, then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If you don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods will work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake in alcoholic beverages? I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to other ways you might go about it? Thanks Justin! Darian On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams wrote: > Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes > keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. > Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; > however, there are just times in social situations where you just have > to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to > keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with > you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, > it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus > think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or > aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you > are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are > confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It > helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have > learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance > floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a > group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian > Smith > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > Hi all, > Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious > about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is > a part of the atmosphere? > Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to dance? > are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? > On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot > of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? > Thanks! > > Darian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. > com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue May 14 00:39:09 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:39:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey folks, I think gender only should matter if you want it to; otherwise it shouldn't. That was the most terribly worded thing I've written since my last paper, but you get my point, yeah? And I think that Darian's question about what to do if you choose not to drink is complicated, because all of us have different ways of getting relaxed and loosened up. I say find whatever works for you, whether it be meditation or exercise or alcohol or extreme amounts of cafeen or some bizarre combination of some or all of the above and just go with it. I think not taking yourself too seriously is probably the key, especially if you aren't all that great at dancing but want to have a fun time with it anyhow, and that probably means finding your "happy place", or centering yourself, or however you want to put it. Of course blind people can be fantastic dancers; if you want to learn how to really be good at it, more power to you. I'd say being comfortable with whoever ends up teaching you is key, so finding a friend is probably a good place to start. Now, on a somewhat related note, I actually am curious about what those of you who prefer navigating with your canes do with them while you dance? I used to rely mostly on sighted guide and put my folding cane in a corner somewhere but, now that I use a straight cane, and don't use sighted guide nearly as much as I have in the past, I'm wondering if anybody has any good strategies for navigating with astraight cane when I want to but quickly finding a place for it when I want to dance with somebody? I'm thinking this isn't very practical, so I'll probably get a telescopic cane for situations like this so I can keep my cane with me and keep both of my hands free for dancing. How do you guys handle this one? Best, Kirt On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: > Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? > and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake in > alcoholic beverages? > I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to other > ways you might go about it? > Thanks Justin! > > Darian > > On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams > wrote: > >> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >> however, >> there are just times in social situations where you just have to shake a >> leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with >> the >> beat. There are a lot of other people out there with you who can't dance >> either. They also look terrible. If you drink, it loosen's you up just >> a >> little. It doen't make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just a >> little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good at it. The >> appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are actually enjoying your >> self, >> lets everyone see that you are confident; you can't dance and you know >> it, >> but you don't care. It helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as >> you >> accept I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the >> dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to >> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach >> you. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> Hi all, >> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious about >> how >> you all go about attending social functions where dancing is a part of >> the >> atmosphere? >> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >> dance? >> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot of >> folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >> Thanks! >> >> Darian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 14 00:54:02 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:54:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may want to get a little bit of formal instruction. One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. Arielle On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: > Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a little, > and > is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so you > can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the > white > belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't drink, > then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same > thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If you > don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods will > work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? > and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake in > alcoholic beverages? > I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to > other > ways you might go about it? > Thanks Justin! > > Darian > > On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams > wrote: > >> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >> however, there are just times in social situations where you just have >> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or >> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you >> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to > dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach > you. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >> Smith >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> Hi all, >> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is >> a part of the atmosphere? >> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >> dance? >> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >> Thanks! >> >> Darian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >> com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:07:26 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 19:07:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: HI Arielle, I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's an option. Best, Kirt On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and > bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age > 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, > so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at > quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, > though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most > of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is > mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the > music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and > nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on > the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to > worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a > line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that > particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just > moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or > snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, > you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing > experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you > what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow > dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but > if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may > want to get a little bit of formal instruction. > One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane > while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted > friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now > I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like > to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the > dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not > wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I > bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an > option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this > issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some > sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that > spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. > Arielle > > On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a little, >> and >> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >> you >> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >> white >> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >> drink, >> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same >> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >> you >> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >> will >> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >> in >> alcoholic beverages? >> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >> other >> ways you might go about it? >> Thanks Justin! >> >> Darian >> >> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >> wrote: >> >>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just have >>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or >>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you >>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to >> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach >> you. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>> Smith >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is >>> a part of the atmosphere? >>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>> dance? >>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Darian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>> 0gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:12:06 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 19:12:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking about it is kind of hilarious! Arielle On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > HI Arielle, > I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt > loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic > canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's > an option. > Best, > Kirt > > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >> Arielle >> >> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a little, >>> and >>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>> you >>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>> white >>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>> drink, >>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same >>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>> you >>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>> will >>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>> Smith >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>> in >>> alcoholic beverages? >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>> other >>> ways you might go about it? >>> Thanks Justin! >>> >>> Darian >>> >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just have >>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or >>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you >>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach >>> you. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>> Smith >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is >>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>> dance? >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Darian >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>> 0gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>> com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:17:47 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 19:17:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I guess. :) On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything > that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking > about it is kind of hilarious! > Arielle > > On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> HI Arielle, >> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >> an option. >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>> little, >>>> and >>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>>> you >>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>>> white >>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>> drink, >>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>> same >>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>>> you >>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>>> will >>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>> Smith >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>> >>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>> in >>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>>> other >>>> ways you might go about it? >>>> Thanks Justin! >>>> >>>> Darian >>>> >>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just have >>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or >>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you >>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not >>>>> to >>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach >>>> you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>> Smith >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is >>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>> dance? >>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Darian >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>> 0gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:22:24 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 19:22:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before me has been male? Arielle On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose > that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about > looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I > guess. :) > > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >> about it is kind of hilarious! >> Arielle >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> HI Arielle, >>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >>> an option. >>> Best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>> little, >>>>> and >>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>>>> you >>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>>>> white >>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>> drink, >>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>> same >>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>>>> you >>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>>>> will >>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>> Smith >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>> >>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>>> in >>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>>>> other >>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>> >>>>> Darian >>>>> >>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>> have >>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>> with >>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >>>>>> or >>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>> you >>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not >>>>>> to >>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>> teach >>>>> you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>> Smith >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >>>>>> is >>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>>> dance? >>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> Darian >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Tue May 14 01:25:37 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:25:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513182327.01c055f0@comcast.net> Hi, Can you not just set your cane to the side while you are dancing? You don't need a holster, backpack or anything else. Jus find a place you can reach, or ask ol' sighty to grab it when you're done. Not rocket science! CarAt 06:12 PM 5/13/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >about it is kind of hilarious! >Arielle > >On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > HI Arielle, > > I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt > > loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic > > canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's > > an option. > > Best, > > Kirt > > > > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and > >> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age > >> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, > >> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at > >> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, > >> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most > >> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is > >> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the > >> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and > >> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on > >> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to > >> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a > >> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that > >> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just > >> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or > >> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, > >> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing > >> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you > >> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow > >> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but > >> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may > >> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. > >> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane > >> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted > >> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now > >> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like > >> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the > >> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not > >> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I > >> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an > >> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this > >> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some > >> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that > >> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: > >>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a little, > >>> and > >>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so > >>> you > >>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the > >>> white > >>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't > >>> drink, > >>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same > >>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If > >>> you > >>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods > >>> will > >>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian > >>> Smith > >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >>> > >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? > >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake > >>> in > >>> alcoholic beverages? > >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to > >>> other > >>> ways you might go about it? > >>> Thanks Justin! > >>> > >>> Darian > >>> > >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes > >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. > >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; > >>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just have > >>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to > >>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with > >>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, > >>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus > >>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or > >>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you > >>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are > >>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It > >>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have > >>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance > >>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a > >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to > >>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach > >>> you. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian > >>>> Smith > >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >>>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious > >>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is > >>>> a part of the atmosphere? > >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to > >>>> dance? > >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? > >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot > >>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? > >>>> Thanks! > >>>> > >>>> Darian > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > >>>> 0gmail > >>>> .com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. > >>>> com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > >>> .com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:29:57 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 20:29:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Becoming a member of a local NFB Chapter. Message-ID: <519193bc.27a1ec0a.6b44.52e0@mx.google.com> I'm not exactly sure if Louisiana does or not. ----- Original Message ----- From: Darian Smith wrote: I would like to become a member of an NFB chapter, but first of all, I don't know if teens are allowed to be members. And second of all, the two nearest chapters are at least an hour's drive away, so if I could become a member, it would be kinda inconvenient to go there, especially since I believe most meetings take place in the evenings. Best, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Darian Smith References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi folks, The last time I went dancing I put my straight cane in a place nearby and kind of just navigated my way back to it. I was only dancing for a song or two, and could orientate myself based upon the speakers. If the situation came up often enough I would probably have a collapsable/folding cane of some sort on me and probably have a cane holder on my belt to store it. I'm actually thinking that's just what I did once. and "happy place" sounds very California -- Love it! haha On May 13, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Hey folks, > I think gender only should matter if you want it to; otherwise it > shouldn't. That was the most terribly worded thing I've written since > my last paper, but you get my point, yeah? > And I think that Darian's question about what to do if you choose > not to drink is complicated, because all of us have different ways of > getting relaxed and loosened up. I say find whatever works for you, > whether it be meditation or exercise or alcohol or extreme amounts of > cafeen or some bizarre combination of some or all of the above and > just go with it. I think not taking yourself too seriously is > probably the key, especially if you aren't all that great at dancing > but want to have a fun time with it anyhow, and that probably means > finding your "happy place", or centering yourself, or however you want > to put it. > Of course blind people can be fantastic dancers; if you want to > learn how to really be good at it, more power to you. I'd say being > comfortable with whoever ends up teaching you is key, so finding a > friend is probably a good place to start. > Now, on a somewhat related note, I actually am curious about what > those of you who prefer navigating with your canes do with them while > you dance? I used to rely mostly on sighted guide and put my folding > cane in a corner somewhere but, now that I use a straight cane, and > don't use sighted guide nearly as much as I have in the past, I'm > wondering if anybody has any good strategies for navigating with > astraight cane when I want to but quickly finding a place for it when > I want to dance with somebody? I'm thinking this isn't very > practical, so I'll probably get a telescopic cane for situations like > this so I can keep my cane with me and keep both of my hands free for > dancing. How do you guys handle this one? > Best, > Kirt > > On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: >> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake in >> alcoholic beverages? >> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to other >> ways you might go about it? >> Thanks Justin! >> >> Darian >> >> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >> wrote: >> >>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>> however, >>> there are just times in social situations where you just have to shake a >>> leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with >>> the >>> beat. There are a lot of other people out there with you who can't dance >>> either. They also look terrible. If you drink, it loosen's you up just >>> a >>> little. It doen't make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just a >>> little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good at it. The >>> appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are actually enjoying your >>> self, >>> lets everyone see that you are confident; you can't dance and you know >>> it, >>> but you don't care. It helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as >>> you >>> accept I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the >>> dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach >>> you. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious about >>> how >>> you all go about attending social functions where dancing is a part of >>> the >>> atmosphere? >>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>> dance? >>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot of >>> folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Darian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:38:27 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:38:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <05C84D2A-A22F-4646-999F-B32446667AA0@gmail.com> I believe there are some from telescoping canes. I can't tell you where I believe I last saw one, but pretty sure I have. I have a holster for my cane that I keep on my backpack in case my straight cane breaks (some might laugh, but you know it happens sometimes). On May 13, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > HI Arielle, > I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt > loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic > canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's > an option. > Best, > Kirt > > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >> Arielle >> >> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a little, >>> and >>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>> you >>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>> white >>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>> drink, >>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same >>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>> you >>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>> will >>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>> in >>> alcoholic beverages? >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>> other >>> ways you might go about it? >>> Thanks Justin! >>> >>> Darian >>> >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just have >>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or >>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you >>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach >>> you. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>> Smith >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is >>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>> dance? >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Darian >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>> 0gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>> com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:40:42 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:40:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes that does sound pretty funny, now that you mention it, Arielle. But it's not like guys (not many of them at least), rock a purse so… hahahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything > that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking > about it is kind of hilarious! > Arielle > > On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> HI Arielle, >> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >> an option. >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a little, >>>> and >>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>>> you >>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>>> white >>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>> drink, >>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same >>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>>> you >>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>>> will >>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>> Smith >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>> >>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>> in >>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>>> other >>>> ways you might go about it? >>>> Thanks Justin! >>>> >>>> Darian >>>> >>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just have >>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or >>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you >>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach >>>> you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>> Smith >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is >>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>> dance? >>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Darian >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>> 0gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:41:41 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:41:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before > me has been male? > Arielle > > On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >> guess. :) >> >> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> HI Arielle, >>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >>>> an option. >>>> Best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>> little, >>>>>> and >>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>>>>> you >>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>>>>> white >>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>> drink, >>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>> same >>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>>>>> you >>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>>>>> will >>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>> Smith >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>>>> in >>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>>>>> other >>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>> >>>>>> Darian >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not >>>>>>> to >>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>> teach >>>>>> you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:46:32 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:46:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513182327.01c055f0@comcast.net> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513182327.01c055f0@comcast.net> Message-ID: I suppose if it were that easy, the question would not have to be asked? Personally, I like to think that there are options. There is nothing wrong with asking someone with vision to help you find your cane, but there is also nothing wrong with seeing if there is a way that you can still keep track of your cane and get it when you want and not feel as if you have to feel as if you are bothering someone to grab it. How often to women go dancing with their purse? On May 13, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Hi, Can you not just set your cane to the side while you are dancing? You don't need a holster, backpack or anything else. Jus find a place you can reach, or ask ol' sighty to grab it when you're done. Not rocket science! > CarAt 06:12 PM 5/13/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >> about it is kind of hilarious! >> Arielle >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> > HI Arielle, >> > I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >> > loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >> > canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >> > an option. >> > Best, >> > Kirt >> > >> > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >> >> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >> >> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >> >> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >> >> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >> >> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >> >> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >> >> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >> >> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >> >> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >> >> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >> >> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >> >> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >> >> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >> >> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >> >> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >> >> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >> >> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >> >> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >> >> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >> >> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >> >> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >> >> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >> >> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >> >> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >> >> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >> >> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >> >> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >> >> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >> >> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >> >> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >> >> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >> >> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >> >> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >> >>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a little, >> >>> and >> >>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >> >>> you >> >>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >> >>> white >> >>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >> >>> drink, >> >>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same >> >>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >> >>> you >> >>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >> >>> will >> >>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >> >>> Smith >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >>> >> >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >> >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >> >>> in >> >>> alcoholic beverages? >> >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >> >>> other >> >>> ways you might go about it? >> >>> Thanks Justin! >> >>> >> >>> Darian >> >>> >> >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >> >>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >> >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >> >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >> >>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just have >> >>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >> >>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >> >>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >> >>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >> >>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or >> >>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you >> >>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >> >>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >> >>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >> >>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >> >>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >> >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to >> >>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach >> >>> you. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >> >>>> Smith >> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >> >>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is >> >>>> a part of the atmosphere? >> >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >> >>>> dance? >> >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >> >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >> >>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >> >>>> Thanks! >> >>>> >> >>>> Darian >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> >>>> 0gmail >> >>>> .com >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >> >>>> com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> >>> .com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:48:55 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 19:48:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Carly, It's not always that easy, my friend. Some dance floors are huge; by that, I mean absolutely massive. When you're in the middle of that kind of open space, "setting it to the side" means putting it on the floor somewhere where it's liable to cause all sorts of injuries for people. Finding a wall or corner, especially when you have a mass of dancing people to contend with would take enough time that the song would probably be over when you finally force your way through the crowd to a place you can put the dang thing. I'm not content to put my cane in a corner and rely on sighted guide for the rest of the night until someone can help me find it when the party's winding down; I've done that before and I find it much too limiting. What me and Arielle are talking about is a way to keep your cane with you, use it to navigate, put it away somewhere convenient and easily accessible while we're dancing so that, when we want to grab a drink or step off the dance floor for whatever reason, we can do it quickly and efficiently without having to spend five minutes jostling our way through an excited and possibly tipsy crowd so we can find the wall where our cane is patiently waiting for us. Do you understand how it isn't as cut-and-dry as you were portraying it to be? Best, Kirt On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: > Hi folks, > The last time I went dancing I put my straight cane in a place nearby > and kind of just navigated my way back to it. I was only dancing for a song > or two, and could orientate myself based upon the speakers. > If the situation came up often enough I would probably have a > collapsable/folding cane of some sort on me and probably have a cane holder > on my belt to store it. > I'm actually thinking that's just what I did once. > and "happy place" sounds very California -- Love it! haha > > On May 13, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Kirt Manwaring > wrote: > >> Hey folks, >> I think gender only should matter if you want it to; otherwise it >> shouldn't. That was the most terribly worded thing I've written since >> my last paper, but you get my point, yeah? >> And I think that Darian's question about what to do if you choose >> not to drink is complicated, because all of us have different ways of >> getting relaxed and loosened up. I say find whatever works for you, >> whether it be meditation or exercise or alcohol or extreme amounts of >> cafeen or some bizarre combination of some or all of the above and >> just go with it. I think not taking yourself too seriously is >> probably the key, especially if you aren't all that great at dancing >> but want to have a fun time with it anyhow, and that probably means >> finding your "happy place", or centering yourself, or however you want >> to put it. >> Of course blind people can be fantastic dancers; if you want to >> learn how to really be good at it, more power to you. I'd say being >> comfortable with whoever ends up teaching you is key, so finding a >> friend is probably a good place to start. >> Now, on a somewhat related note, I actually am curious about what >> those of you who prefer navigating with your canes do with them while >> you dance? I used to rely mostly on sighted guide and put my folding >> cane in a corner somewhere but, now that I use a straight cane, and >> don't use sighted guide nearly as much as I have in the past, I'm >> wondering if anybody has any good strategies for navigating with >> astraight cane when I want to but quickly finding a place for it when >> I want to dance with somebody? I'm thinking this isn't very >> practical, so I'll probably get a telescopic cane for situations like >> this so I can keep my cane with me and keep both of my hands free for >> dancing. How do you guys handle this one? >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>> in >>> alcoholic beverages? >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>> other >>> ways you might go about it? >>> Thanks Justin! >>> >>> Darian >>> >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>> however, >>>> there are just times in social situations where you just have to shake >>>> a >>>> leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with >>>> the >>>> beat. There are a lot of other people out there with you who can't >>>> dance >>>> either. They also look terrible. If you drink, it loosen's you up >>>> just >>>> a >>>> little. It doen't make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just >>>> a >>>> little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good at it. The >>>> appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are actually enjoying your >>>> self, >>>> lets everyone see that you are confident; you can't dance and you know >>>> it, >>>> but you don't care. It helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as >>>> you >>>> accept I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of >>>> the >>>> dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach >>>> you. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>> Smith >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious about >>>> how >>>> you all go about attending social functions where dancing is a part of >>>> the >>>> atmosphere? >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>> dance? >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>> of >>>> folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Darian >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue May 14 01:51:25 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 01:51:25 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> , <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> Message-ID: I thought I'd chyme in on this one! I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played rap music. Where's the classic Country when I need it? Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? You are just brave, I guess. hahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before > me has been male? > Arielle > > On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >> guess. :) >> >> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> HI Arielle, >>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >>>> an option. >>>> Best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>> little, >>>>>> and >>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>>>>> you >>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>>>>> white >>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>> drink, >>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>> same >>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>>>>> you >>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>>>>> will >>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>> Smith >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>>>> in >>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>>>>> other >>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>> >>>>>> Darian >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not >>>>>>> to >>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>> teach >>>>>> you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From carlymih at comcast.net Tue May 14 01:54:04 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:54:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513182327.01c055f0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513185259.01c0a928@comcast.net> Exactly! Hopefully, the dancer could be aware of where he stashed his cane, so he need not recruit ol' Sighty... CarAt 06:46 PM 5/13/2013, you wrote: >I suppose if it were that easy, the question would not have to be asked? > Personally, I like to think that there are options. There is > nothing wrong with asking someone with vision to help you > find your cane, but there is also nothing wrong with seeing if > there is a way that you can still keep track of your cane and get > it when you want and not feel as if you have to feel as if you are > bothering someone to grab it. > > How often to women go dancing with their purse? >On May 13, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > > Hi, Can you not just set your cane to the side while you are > dancing? You don't need a holster, backpack or anything else. Jus > find a place you can reach, or ask ol' sighty to grab it when > you're done. Not rocket science! > > CarAt 06:12 PM 5/13/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything > >> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking > >> about it is kind of hilarious! > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> > HI Arielle, > >> > I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt > >> > loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic > >> > canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's > >> > an option. > >> > Best, > >> > Kirt > >> > > >> > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> >> Hi all, > >> >> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and > >> >> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age > >> >> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, > >> >> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at > >> >> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, > >> >> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most > >> >> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is > >> >> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the > >> >> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and > >> >> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on > >> >> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to > >> >> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a > >> >> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that > >> >> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just > >> >> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or > >> >> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, > >> >> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing > >> >> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you > >> >> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow > >> >> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but > >> >> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may > >> >> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. > >> >> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane > >> >> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted > >> >> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now > >> >> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like > >> >> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the > >> >> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not > >> >> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I > >> >> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an > >> >> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this > >> >> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some > >> >> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that > >> >> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. > >> >> Arielle > >> >> > >> >> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: > >> >>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can > dance a little, > >> >>> and > >> >>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so > >> >>> you > >> >>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the > >> >>> white > >> >>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't > >> >>> drink, > >> >>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can > do the same > >> >>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If > >> >>> you > >> >>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods > >> >>> will > >> >>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. > >> >>> > >> >>> -----Original Message----- > >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian > >> >>> Smith > >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM > >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >> >>> > >> >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? > >> >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake > >> >>> in > >> >>> alcoholic beverages? > >> >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to > >> >>> other > >> >>> ways you might go about it? > >> >>> Thanks Justin! > >> >>> > >> >>> Darian > >> >>> > >> >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams > >> >>> > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes > >> >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. > >> >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; > >> >>>> however, there are just times in social situations where > you just have > >> >>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to > >> >>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out > there with > >> >>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, > >> >>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus > >> >>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like > dancing, or > >> >>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or > hopefully you > >> >>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are > >> >>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It > >> >>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have > >> >>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance > >> >>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a > >> >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an > excuse not to > >> >>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a > girl to teach > >> >>> you. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> -----Original Message----- > >> >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian > >> >>>> Smith > >> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM > >> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Hi all, > >> >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious > >> >>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where > dancing is > >> >>>> a part of the atmosphere? > >> >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to > >> >>>> dance? > >> >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? > >> >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot > >> >>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? > >> >>>> Thanks! > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Darian > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >>>> nabs-l: > >> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > >> >>>> 0gmail > >> >>>> .com > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. > >> >>>> com > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > >> >>> .com > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:58:36 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:58:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> , <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <395B45E2-243C-4EE1-A9C1-6C538121EDD9@gmail.com> Joshua, Why you got to hate on rap music? I mean, I didn't hate on your crummy country *smile* Seriously though; do you dislike dancing because you dislike the selection of music at the venues you have frequented? Or you just don't like dancing period? On May 13, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I thought I'd chyme in on this one! > I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played rap music. > Where's the classic Country when I need it? > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > You are just brave, I guess. hahaha > On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before >> me has been male? >> Arielle >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>> guess. :) >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >>>>> an option. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>> little, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>>>>>> white >>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>>> teach >>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Tue May 14 01:59:45 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:59:45 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513185555.01bfe8d0@comcast.net> Hi, I assumed it was a given that someone wouldn't just ly his cane down among the dancers simply because there wasn't a suitable corner in which to stash it. In fact, at a time I myself took a ballroom dancing class, I had just that, a holster attached to my belt in which I carried my cane. Now however, I use a straight cane. The advantagges to having your cane on your belt are that you can just whip it out when needed, no fuss, no muss. Cart 06:48 PM 5/13/2013, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >Carly, > It's not always that easy, my friend. Some dance floors are huge; >by that, I mean absolutely massive. When you're in the middle of that >kind of open space, "setting it to the side" means putting it on the >floor somewhere where it's liable to cause all sorts of injuries for >people. Finding a wall or corner, especially when you have a mass of >dancing people to contend with would take enough time that the song >would probably be over when you finally force your way through the >crowd to a place you can put the dang thing. I'm not content to put >my cane in a corner and rely on sighted guide for the rest of the >night until someone can help me find it when the party's winding down; >I've done that before and I find it much too limiting. What me and >Arielle are talking about is a way to keep your cane with you, use it >to navigate, put it away somewhere convenient and easily accessible >while we're dancing so that, when we want to grab a drink or step off >the dance floor for whatever reason, we can do it quickly and >efficiently without having to spend five minutes jostling our way >through an excited and possibly tipsy crowd so we can find the wall >where our cane is patiently waiting for us. Do you understand how it >isn't as cut-and-dry as you were portraying it to be? > Best, >Kirt > >On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: > > Hi folks, > > The last time I went dancing I put my straight cane in a place nearby > > and kind of just navigated my way back to it. I was only dancing > for a song > > or two, and could orientate myself based upon the speakers. > > If the situation came up often enough I would probably have a > > collapsable/folding cane of some sort on me and probably have a > cane holder > > on my belt to store it. > > I'm actually thinking that's just what I did once. > > and "happy place" sounds very California -- Love it! haha > > > > On May 13, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Kirt Manwaring > > wrote: > > > >> Hey folks, > >> I think gender only should matter if you want it to; otherwise it > >> shouldn't. That was the most terribly worded thing I've written since > >> my last paper, but you get my point, yeah? > >> And I think that Darian's question about what to do if you choose > >> not to drink is complicated, because all of us have different ways of > >> getting relaxed and loosened up. I say find whatever works for you, > >> whether it be meditation or exercise or alcohol or extreme amounts of > >> cafeen or some bizarre combination of some or all of the above and > >> just go with it. I think not taking yourself too seriously is > >> probably the key, especially if you aren't all that great at dancing > >> but want to have a fun time with it anyhow, and that probably means > >> finding your "happy place", or centering yourself, or however you want > >> to put it. > >> Of course blind people can be fantastic dancers; if you want to > >> learn how to really be good at it, more power to you. I'd say being > >> comfortable with whoever ends up teaching you is key, so finding a > >> friend is probably a good place to start. > >> Now, on a somewhat related note, I actually am curious about what > >> those of you who prefer navigating with your canes do with them while > >> you dance? I used to rely mostly on sighted guide and put my folding > >> cane in a corner somewhere but, now that I use a straight cane, and > >> don't use sighted guide nearly as much as I have in the past, I'm > >> wondering if anybody has any good strategies for navigating with > >> astraight cane when I want to but quickly finding a place for it when > >> I want to dance with somebody? I'm thinking this isn't very > >> practical, so I'll probably get a telescopic cane for situations like > >> this so I can keep my cane with me and keep both of my hands free for > >> dancing. How do you guys handle this one? > >> Best, > >> Kirt > >> > >> On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: > >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? > >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake > >>> in > >>> alcoholic beverages? > >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to > >>> other > >>> ways you might go about it? > >>> Thanks Justin! > >>> > >>> Darian > >>> > >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes > >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. > >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; > >>>> however, > >>>> there are just times in social situations where you just have to shake > >>>> a > >>>> leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with > >>>> the > >>>> beat. There are a lot of other people out there with you who can't > >>>> dance > >>>> either. They also look terrible. If you drink, it loosen's you up > >>>> just > >>>> a > >>>> little. It doen't make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just > >>>> a > >>>> little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good at it. The > >>>> appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are actually enjoying your > >>>> self, > >>>> lets everyone see that you are confident; you can't dance and you know > >>>> it, > >>>> but you don't care. It helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as > >>>> you > >>>> accept I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of > >>>> the > >>>> dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a > >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to > >>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach > >>>> you. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian > >>>> Smith > >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >>>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious about > >>>> how > >>>> you all go about attending social functions where dancing is a part of > >>>> the > >>>> atmosphere? > >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to > >>>> dance? > >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? > >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot > >>>> of > >>>> folks do and watch it on television or the internet? > >>>> Thanks! > >>>> > >>>> Darian > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > >>>> .com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue May 14 02:00:24 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 22:00:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I've been to quite a few dancing functions, (wedding receptions, homecomings and prom, formals and semiformals at my university, etc). I think as long as you're moving to the beat and you're having a good time it's not a huge deal. A lot of the time the other people around you will be so caught up in their own dancing or socializing that they won't really take much notice if you're doing something slightly unconventional. When in doubt you could always step from side to side and just get your shoulders into it. For guys leading a slow dance mainly involves putting your hands on the girl's waist or shoulders, (whichever she's comfortable with), and just swaying as you step in a circle. It can be a little awkward the first time you do it, but it is for most guys from what I've seen. Guys have the advantage of having deep pockets. When I went to prom my boyfriend had a straight cane and I had a folding one, so we left his at our table and I lead with him holding onto my elbow until we got to the dance floor, then I folded up and he put the cane in his tux pocket. At the last formal we went to I had a telescopic cane and a purse which handily enough had metal rings between the top of the purse and the ends of the straps. I was able to slide the cane through the loops and because the rings were the right size it was a pretty secure fit. It was kind of annoying wearing the purse after a while though, and I think I eventually just put it on the table with my coat and went without it. I strategically chose my table, so it wasn't really an issue of knowing where to go to find it when I needed to during the dance. I've been trying to figure out better ways to go about stowing the cane myself, especially when wearing formalwear like a prom dress as opposed to just a nicer homecoming-style one. I like taking smaller canes that fold up or telescope for situations like this, so I probably won't ever bring a straight cane to something like this and save eit for more day-to-day use. I think just finding n easily locatable spot is key not just for your cane, but so you can find all your other stuff when your done dancing. On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: > Yes that does sound pretty funny, now that you mention it, Arielle. But > it's not like guys (not many of them at least), rock a purse so… hahahaha > On May 13, 2013, at 6:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >> about it is kind of hilarious! >> Arielle >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> HI Arielle, >>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >>> an option. >>> Best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>> little, >>>>> and >>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>>>> you >>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>>>> white >>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>> drink, >>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>> same >>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>>>> you >>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>>>> will >>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>> Smith >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>> >>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>>> in >>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>>>> other >>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>> >>>>> Darian >>>>> >>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>> have >>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>> with >>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >>>>>> or >>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>> you >>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not >>>>>> to >>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>> teach >>>>> you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>> Smith >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >>>>>> is >>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>>> dance? >>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> Darian >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 14 02:00:35 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 20:00:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> Message-ID: I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose it by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the process of doing that so finding my table or corner again without a cane can be kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, I tend to be a better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident one. :) I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't remember if I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or somewhere else where I didn't know many people then I think I would keep it on, but I would probably prefer to carry a small purse that might not be big enough for the cane. I've actually had the most cane trouble at dances with other blind people, because everybody has a cane and there aren't many folks to keep an eye on your cane for you. I suppose the purse or cane holster might be the best solution, unless there are good sound cues in the venue and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to navigate without a cane. Arielle On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > I thought I'd chyme in on this one! > I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played > rap music. > Where's the classic Country when I need it? > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith > [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > You are just brave, I guess. hahaha > On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before >> me has been male? >> Arielle >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>> guess. :) >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >>>>> an option. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >>>>>> age >>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >>>>>> at >>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >>>>>> a >>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>> things, >>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >>>>>> but >>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >>>>>> may >>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >>>>>> like >>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >>>>>> I >>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >>>>>> some >>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >>>>>> that >>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>> little, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> white >>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>> methods >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>>>>>> match. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >>>>>>>> jus >>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>>> teach >>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 01:59:57 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:59:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513185259.01c0a928@comcast.net> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513182327.01c055f0@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513185259.01c0a928@comcast.net> Message-ID: Right, hence the question that Kirt had. Thanks, Darian On May 13, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Exactly! Hopefully, the dancer could be aware of where he stashed his cane, so he need not recruit ol' Sighty... > CarAt 06:46 PM 5/13/2013, you wrote: >> I suppose if it were that easy, the question would not have to be asked? >> Personally, I like to think that there are options. There is nothing wrong with asking someone with vision to help you find your cane, but there is also nothing wrong with seeing if there is a way that you can still keep track of your cane and get it when you want and not feel as if you have to feel as if you are bothering someone to grab it. >> >> How often to women go dancing with their purse? >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >> > Hi, Can you not just set your cane to the side while you are dancing? You don't need a holster, backpack or anything else. Jus find a place you can reach, or ask ol' sighty to grab it when you're done. Not rocket science! >> > CarAt 06:12 PM 5/13/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >> >> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >> >> about it is kind of hilarious! >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >> > HI Arielle, >> >> > I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >> >> > loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >> >> > canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >> >> > an option. >> >> > Best, >> >> > Kirt >> >> > >> >> > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >> >> >> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >> >> >> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >> >> >> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >> >> >> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >> >> >> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >> >> >> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >> >> >> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >> >> >> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >> >> >> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >> >> >> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >> >> >> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >> >> >> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >> >> >> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >> >> >> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >> >> >> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >> >> >> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >> >> >> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >> >> >> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >> >> >> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >> >> >> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >> >> >> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >> >> >> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >> >> >> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >> >> >> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >> >> >> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >> >> >> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >> >> >> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >> >> >> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >> >> >> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >> >> >> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >> >> >> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >> >> >> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >> >> >> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >> >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> >> >> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >> >> >>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a little, >> >> >>> and >> >> >>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >> >> >>> you >> >> >>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >> >> >>> white >> >> >>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >> >> >>> drink, >> >> >>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same >> >> >>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >> >> >>> you >> >> >>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >> >> >>> will >> >> >>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >> >> >>> Smith >> >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >> >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >> >> >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >> >> >>> in >> >> >>> alcoholic beverages? >> >> >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >> >> >>> other >> >> >>> ways you might go about it? >> >> >>> Thanks Justin! >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Darian >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >> >> >>> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >> >> >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >> >> >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >> >> >>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just have >> >> >>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >> >> >>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >> >> >>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >> >> >>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >> >> >>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or >> >> >>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you >> >> >>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >> >> >>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >> >> >>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >> >> >>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >> >> >>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >> >> >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not to >> >> >>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to teach >> >> >>> you. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >> >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >> >> >>>> Smith >> >> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >> >> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >> >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >> >> >>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing is >> >> >>>> a part of the atmosphere? >> >> >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >> >> >>>> dance? >> >> >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >> >> >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >> >> >>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >> >> >>>> Thanks! >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Darian >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> >> >>>> 0gmail >> >> >>>> .com >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >> >> >>>> com >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> >> >>> .com >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue May 14 02:02:11 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 02:02:11 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <395B45E2-243C-4EE1-A9C1-6C538121EDD9@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> , <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> , <395B45E2-243C-4EE1-A9C1-6C538121EDD9@gmail.com> Message-ID: The only dances I attended were school proms, and a dance at the NFB convention in 2010. The music was terrible, because they always selected all of that vulgar stuff. My girlfriend that I took to my senior prom wanted to dance to "Check Yourself," by Usher, but I wouldn't have it. When I dance, I want to have some Ernest Tubb, or some Bob Wills, (the latter for square-dancing.) Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:58 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? Joshua, Why you got to hate on rap music? I mean, I didn't hate on your crummy country *smile* Seriously though; do you dislike dancing because you dislike the selection of music at the venues you have frequented? Or you just don't like dancing period? On May 13, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I thought I'd chyme in on this one! > I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played rap music. > Where's the classic Country when I need it? > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > You are just brave, I guess. hahaha > On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before >> me has been male? >> Arielle >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>> guess. :) >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >>>>> an option. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>> little, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>>>>>> white >>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>>> teach >>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 14 02:01:53 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 21:01:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Executive Products Inc - Notification Focus 14 Blue Message-ID: > >Focus 14 Blue > > > >$49.95 > > > > >?product=Focus-14-open1-full-S.gif&img=0&osCsid=32mdcsdgobv7rbc1hc7d052h95') > > >Click to view > >Focus 14 Blue Fitted Leather case with strap >Features: Softer Leather and E-Rings >A new case for the Focus 14 Blue, a custom fitted case. Our new soft leather >case for the Focus 14 Blue display is a fitted case designed to hold your >unit securely in the case. It is a custom fitted leather case, designed to >enable the user to easily utilize the display while the case is on the unit >and allow the unit to be carried on a comfortable strap. The face of the >unit is covered with a zipper pocket cover which may be opened / closed with >three magnet closures. The zipper pocket cover may be flipped on to the rear >and secured under the unit if the user needs to utilize the display while >walking. The large zipper pocket can store your ear buds and other items >which provide security and protection. It is designed to enable the user to >utilize their display while the case is on. The case is equipped with black >plastic hooks to provide security, durability and safety. EPI continues the >tradition of creating functional, durable and beautiful fitted cases. The >strap that comes with this case has a loop on the strap so that you can >attach your iPhone 4/5. Made in the U.S.A. > >Click below to order: > >https://www.executiveproductsinc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=277&prod >ucts_id=1947&osCsid=32mdcsdgobv7rbc1hc7d052h95 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail88.dat Type: application/mac-binhex40 Size: 103367 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 14 02:02:26 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 21:02:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Executive Products Inc - Notification Focus 14 Blue Message-ID: > >Focus 14 Blue > > > >$49.95 > > > > >?product=Focus-14-open1-full-S.gif&img=0&osCsid=32mdcsdgobv7rbc1hc7d052h95') > > >Click to view > >Focus 14 Blue Fitted Leather case with strap >Features: Softer Leather and E-Rings >A new case for the Focus 14 Blue, a custom fitted case. Our new soft leather >case for the Focus 14 Blue display is a fitted case designed to hold your >unit securely in the case. It is a custom fitted leather case, designed to >enable the user to easily utilize the display while the case is on the unit >and allow the unit to be carried on a comfortable strap. The face of the >unit is covered with a zipper pocket cover which may be opened / closed with >three magnet closures. The zipper pocket cover may be flipped on to the rear >and secured under the unit if the user needs to utilize the display while >walking. The large zipper pocket can store your ear buds and other items >which provide security and protection. It is designed to enable the user to >utilize their display while the case is on. The case is equipped with black >plastic hooks to provide security, durability and safety. EPI continues the >tradition of creating functional, durable and beautiful fitted cases. The >strap that comes with this case has a loop on the strap so that you can >attach your iPhone 4/5. Made in the U.S.A. > >Click below to order: > >https://www.executiveproductsinc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=277&prod >ucts_id=1947&osCsid=32mdcsdgobv7rbc1hc7d052h95 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail89.dat Type: application/mac-binhex40 Size: 103367 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue May 14 02:07:52 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 20:07:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513185259.01c0a928@comcast.net> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513182327.01c055f0@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513185259.01c0a928@comcast.net> Message-ID: And therein lies the problem. I don't know if you've seen huge dance floors but you can't just lean your cane up against a corner for five minutes and come back and get it after you're done dancing for a while because, as I've said, forcing your way through a huge crowd back to that corner without a cane will take enough time to make it not very practical. You can't just set it off to the side when you're dancing because, well, there are probably no walls close by and you're likely to cause some major accidents. So, the yway I see it, there seem to be only a couple practical options. The first is to do what you seem to be suggesting and set your cane in a corner somewhere, relying pretty much exclusively on sighted guide until you're ready to leave so you can get your cane back. IF it works for you, cool, but it doesn't work for me. The other option is to try and figure out some way to keep your cane with you and still be able to use both hands to dance; it seems like using a telescopic or folding cane is the only way this could even be practical, but I wanted to get other peoples' opinions. Anyways, I have work to do, so I'm done for a little while. Peace! Best, Kirt On 5/13/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Exactly! Hopefully, the dancer could be aware of where he stashed his > cane, so he need not recruit ol' Sighty... > CarAt 06:46 PM 5/13/2013, you wrote: >>I suppose if it were that easy, the question would not have to be asked? >> Personally, I like to think that there are options. There is >> nothing wrong with asking someone with vision to help you >> find your cane, but there is also nothing wrong with seeing if >> there is a way that you can still keep track of your cane and get >> it when you want and not feel as if you have to feel as if you are >> bothering someone to grab it. >> >> How often to women go dancing with their purse? >>On May 13, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >> > Hi, Can you not just set your cane to the side while you are >> dancing? You don't need a holster, backpack or anything else. Jus >> find a place you can reach, or ask ol' sighty to grab it when >> you're done. Not rocket science! >> > CarAt 06:12 PM 5/13/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >> >> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >> >> about it is kind of hilarious! >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >> > HI Arielle, >> >> > I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >> >> > loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >> >> > canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >> >> > it's >> >> > an option. >> >> > Best, >> >> > Kirt >> >> > >> >> > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >> >> >> and >> >> >> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >> >> >> age >> >> >> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >> >> >> mitzvahs, >> >> >> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >> >> >> at >> >> >> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >> >> >> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten >> >> >> most >> >> >> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >> >> >> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >> >> >> the >> >> >> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >> >> >> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me >> >> >> on >> >> >> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >> >> >> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >> >> >> a >> >> >> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >> >> >> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >> >> >> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >> >> >> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >> >> >> things, >> >> >> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >> >> >> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >> >> >> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >> >> >> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >> >> >> but >> >> >> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >> >> >> may >> >> >> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >> >> >> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >> >> >> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >> >> >> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >> >> >> Now >> >> >> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >> >> >> like >> >> >> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >> >> >> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >> >> >> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >> >> >> I >> >> >> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is >> >> >> an >> >> >> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >> >> >> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >> >> >> some >> >> >> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >> >> >> that >> >> >> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >> >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> >> >> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >> >> >>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can >> dance a little, >> >> >>> and >> >> >>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >> >> >>> so >> >> >>> you >> >> >>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >> >> >>> the >> >> >>> white >> >> >>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you >> >> >>> don't >> >> >>> drink, >> >> >>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can >> do the same >> >> >>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >> >> >>> If >> >> >>> you >> >> >>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >> >> >>> methods >> >> >>> will >> >> >>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >> >> >>> match. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> >> >>> Darian >> >> >>> Smith >> >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >> >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >> >> >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >> >> >>> partake >> >> >>> in >> >> >>> alcoholic beverages? >> >> >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >> >> >>> to >> >> >>> other >> >> >>> ways you might go about it? >> >> >>> Thanks Justin! >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Darian >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >> >> >>> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >> >> >>>> Sometimes >> >> >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to >> >> >>>> dance. >> >> >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >> >> >>>> possible; >> >> >>>> however, there are just times in social situations where >> you just have >> >> >>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >> >> >>>> to >> >> >>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out >> there with >> >> >>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >> >> >>>> drink, >> >> >>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >> >> >>>> jus >> >> >>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >> dancing, or >> >> >>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or >> hopefully you >> >> >>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >> >> >>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >> >> >>>> It >> >> >>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >> >> >>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >> >> >>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >> >> >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an >> excuse not to >> >> >>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a >> girl to teach >> >> >>> you. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >> >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> >> >>>> Darian >> >> >>>> Smith >> >> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >> >> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >> >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >> >> >>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >> dancing is >> >> >>>> a part of the atmosphere? >> >> >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how >> >> >>>> to >> >> >>>> dance? >> >> >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >> >> >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >> >> >>>> lot >> >> >>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >> >> >>>> Thanks! >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Darian >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >>>> for >> >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> >> >>>> 0gmail >> >> >>>> .com >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >>>> for >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >> >> >>>> com >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >>> for >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> >> >>> .com >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >>> for >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> > for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon May 13 03:04:07 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 23:04:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <012101ce4f86$896c2120$9c446360$@gmail.com> Didn't think about cane instruction. So, here goes. I use a folding cane attached to a belt that I where; I always where belts, and the cane is in a cane cati which is velcrowed to the belt. The rest of that advice is real good. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? Hi all, I've been to quite a few dancing functions, (wedding receptions, homecomings and prom, formals and semiformals at my university, etc). I think as long as you're moving to the beat and you're having a good time it's not a huge deal. A lot of the time the other people around you will be so caught up in their own dancing or socializing that they won't really take much notice if you're doing something slightly unconventional. When in doubt you could always step from side to side and just get your shoulders into it. For guys leading a slow dance mainly involves putting your hands on the girl's waist or shoulders, (whichever she's comfortable with), and just swaying as you step in a circle. It can be a little awkward the first time you do it, but it is for most guys from what I've seen. Guys have the advantage of having deep pockets. When I went to prom my boyfriend had a straight cane and I had a folding one, so we left his at our table and I lead with him holding onto my elbow until we got to the dance floor, then I folded up and he put the cane in his tux pocket. At the last formal we went to I had a telescopic cane and a purse which handily enough had metal rings between the top of the purse and the ends of the straps. I was able to slide the cane through the loops and because the rings were the right size it was a pretty secure fit. It was kind of annoying wearing the purse after a while though, and I think I eventually just put it on the table with my coat and went without it. I strategically chose my table, so it wasn't really an issue of knowing where to go to find it when I needed to during the dance. I've been trying to figure out better ways to go about stowing the cane myself, especially when wearing formalwear like a prom dress as opposed to just a nicer homecoming-style one. I like taking smaller canes that fold up or telescope for situations like this, so I probably won't ever bring a straight cane to something like this and save eit for more day-to-day use. I think just finding n easily locatable spot is key not just for your cane, but so you can find all your other stuff when your done dancing. On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: > Yes that does sound pretty funny, now that you mention it, Arielle. > But it's not like guys (not many of them at least), rock a purse so. > hahahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >> about it is kind of hilarious! >> Arielle >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> HI Arielle, >>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >>> it's an option. >>> Best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >>>> and bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen >>>> at age >>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>> mitzvahs, so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially >>>> looking stupid at quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught >>>> me how to dance, though I can't remember who and honestly, by now >>>> I've forgotten most of my formal instruction. I do remember being >>>> told that dancing is mainly about having fun and just moving your >>>> body to the beat of the music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but >>>> I've always had fun and nobody has ever criticized my dancing or >>>> not wanted to be with me on the dance floor because of my dancing. >>>> So I don't think you need to worry too much about how you appear to >>>> others. If the group is doing a line dance like the YMCA, and you >>>> don't know the moves for that particular dance, there's no problem >>>> with sitting it out or just moving off the dance floor to talk to >>>> people, or go get a drink or snack or whatever, during that song. >>>> If you want to learn some things, you could ask a friend or family >>>> member who has lots of dancing experience to teach you or just to >>>> watch your moves and tell you what's good and what you could change >>>> or improve on. Also, slow dancing is easy for girls who are just >>>> supposed to follow the man, but if you're a guy and want to learn >>>> how to slow-dance with women you may want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >>>> Now I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and >>>> I'd like to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having >>>> it on the dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually >>>> am not wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping >>>> cane, unless I bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which >>>> I suppose is an option. I'm curious if others have found good ways >>>> to manage this issue. The best solution I've used is to find a >>>> sound landmark of some sort like the bar or music stand and put my >>>> cane in a corner near that spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>> little, and is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for >>>>> you at first so you can get the movement. In japah, that is how >>>>> the black belts teach the white belts. That is how my instructor >>>>> instructs me. Also, if you don't drink, then that is fine too. >>>>> That is just a trick I use. You can do the same thing with a cup >>>>> of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If you don't >>>>> want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>>>> will work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix >>>>> and match. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Darian Smith >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>> >>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>> partake in alcoholic beverages? >>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >>>>> to other ways you might go about it? >>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>> >>>>> Darian >>>>> >>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>> Sometimes keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>> possible; however, there are just times in social situations >>>>>> where you just have to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just >>>>>> move your hips and try to keep up with the beat. There are a lot >>>>>> of other people out there with you who can't dance either. They >>>>>> also look terrible. If you drink, it loosen's you up just a >>>>>> little. It doen't make you better, you jus think you are. Smile >>>>>> just a little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good >>>>>> at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are >>>>>> actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >>>>>> It helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I >>>>>> have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the >>>>>> dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out >>>>>> with a group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an >>>>>> excuse not to >>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>> teach you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Darian Smith >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >>>>>> dancing is a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how >>>>>> to dance? >>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >>>>>> lot of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> Darian >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia >>>>>> ms2%4 >>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.william >>>>> s2%40gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail >> .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Tue May 14 03:17:26 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 23:17:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513182327.01c055f0@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513185259.01c0a928@comcast.net> Message-ID: <53C0FAE6-7FDE-4B32-9D04-37FA94C018BF@gmail.com> I don't use a cane myself as I'm in a wheelchair, but aren't there like holders for canes that you can get to put your cane in? Maybe you could maybe find one that hangs by a belt strap or something? Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2013, at 10:07 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > And therein lies the problem. I don't know if you've seen huge dance > floors but you can't just lean your cane up against a corner for five > minutes and come back and get it after you're done dancing for a while > because, as I've said, forcing your way through a huge crowd back to > that corner without a cane will take enough time to make it not very > practical. You can't just set it off to the side when you're dancing > because, well, there are probably no walls close by and you're likely > to cause some major accidents. So, the yway I see it, there seem to > be only a couple practical options. The first is to do what you seem > to be suggesting and set your cane in a corner somewhere, relying > pretty much exclusively on sighted guide until you're ready to leave > so you can get your cane back. IF it works for you, cool, but it > doesn't work for me. The other option is to try and figure out some > way to keep your cane with you and still be able to use both hands to > dance; it seems like using a telescopic or folding cane is the only > way this could even be practical, but I wanted to get other peoples' > opinions. > Anyways, I have work to do, so I'm done for a little while. Peace! > Best, > Kirt > > On 5/13/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Exactly! Hopefully, the dancer could be aware of where he stashed his >> cane, so he need not recruit ol' Sighty... >> CarAt 06:46 PM 5/13/2013, you wrote: >>> I suppose if it were that easy, the question would not have to be asked? >>> Personally, I like to think that there are options. There is >>> nothing wrong with asking someone with vision to help you >>> find your cane, but there is also nothing wrong with seeing if >>> there is a way that you can still keep track of your cane and get >>> it when you want and not feel as if you have to feel as if you are >>> bothering someone to grab it. >>> >>> How often to women go dancing with their purse? >>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Can you not just set your cane to the side while you are >>> dancing? You don't need a holster, backpack or anything else. Jus >>> find a place you can reach, or ask ol' sighty to grab it when >>> you're done. Not rocket science! >>>> CarAt 06:12 PM 5/13/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >>>>>> it's >>>>>> an option. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >>>>>>> age >>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>>> mitzvahs, >>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten >>>>>>> most >>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>>> things, >>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >>>>>>> Now >>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can >>> dance a little, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> white >>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can >>> do the same >>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>>> methods >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>>>>>>> match. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>> partake >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to >>>>>>>>> dance. >>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>> possible; >>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where >>> you just have >>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out >>> there with >>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >>>>>>>>> jus >>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >>> dancing, or >>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or >>> hopefully you >>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an >>> excuse not to >>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a >>> girl to teach >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >>> dancing is >>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 02:28:06 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 19:28:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02B1A964-DBFD-480E-AE0F-06E398344C0E@gmail.com> true, In some cases though, I feel like you are going to have to get someone with vision to show you some dances like "Gangnam style" or Douggie" It's not critical if you don't know, but is always helpful If the song comes on and you want to dance to it (darn catchy songs)., On May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been to quite a few dancing functions, (wedding receptions, > homecomings and prom, formals and semiformals at my university, etc). > I think as long as you're moving to the beat and you're having a good > time it's not a huge deal. A lot of the time the other people around > you will be so caught up in their own dancing or socializing that they > won't really take much notice if you're doing something slightly > unconventional. When in doubt you could always step from side to side > and just get your shoulders into it. For guys leading a slow dance > mainly involves putting your hands on the girl's waist or shoulders, > (whichever she's comfortable with), and just swaying as you step in a > circle. It can be a little awkward the first time you do it, but it > is for most guys from what I've seen. > > Guys have the advantage of having deep pockets. When I went to prom > my boyfriend had a straight cane and I had a folding one, so we left > his at our table and I lead with him holding onto my elbow until we > got to the dance floor, then I folded up and he put the cane in his > tux pocket. At the last formal we went to I had a telescopic cane and > a purse which handily enough had metal rings between the top of the > purse and the ends of the straps. I was able to slide the cane > through the loops and because the rings were the right size it was a > pretty secure fit. It was kind of annoying wearing the purse after a > while though, and I think I eventually just put it on the table with > my coat and went without it. I strategically chose my table, so it > wasn't really an issue of knowing where to go to find it when I needed > to during the dance. > > I've been trying to figure out better ways to go about stowing the > cane myself, especially when wearing formalwear like a prom dress as > opposed to just a nicer homecoming-style one. I like taking smaller > canes that fold up or telescope for situations like this, so I > probably won't ever bring a straight cane to something like this and > save eit for more day-to-day use. I think just finding n easily > locatable spot is key not just for your cane, but so you can find all > your other stuff when your done dancing. > > On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: >> Yes that does sound pretty funny, now that you mention it, Arielle. But >> it's not like guys (not many of them at least), rock a purse so… hahahaha >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> HI Arielle, >>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >>>> an option. >>>> Best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid at >>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some things, >>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but >>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you may >>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd like >>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I >>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of some >>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near that >>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>> little, >>>>>> and >>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first so >>>>>> you >>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach the >>>>>> white >>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>> drink, >>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>> same >>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. If >>>>>> you >>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other methods >>>>>> will >>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>> Smith >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>>>> in >>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as to >>>>>> other >>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>> >>>>>> Darian >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. Sometimes >>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try to >>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you drink, >>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you jus >>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse not >>>>>>> to >>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>> teach >>>>>> you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a lot >>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Tue May 14 03:32:12 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 20:32:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513182327.01c055f0@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513185259.01c0a928@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513203111.01c29df0@comcast.net> Stupid: Do you really think I would trust so much to the unknown? Do you really think I would just set my can down, without making provisions for retrieving it? C'mon!At 07:07 PM 5/13/2013, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >And therein lies the problem. I don't know if you've seen huge dance >floors but you can't just lean your cane up against a corner for five >minutes and come back and get it after you're done dancing for a while >because, as I've said, forcing your way through a huge crowd back to >that corner without a cane will take enough time to make it not very >practical. You can't just set it off to the side when you're dancing >because, well, there are probably no walls close by and you're likely >to cause some major accidents. So, the yway I see it, there seem to >be only a couple practical options. The first is to do what you seem >to be suggesting and set your cane in a corner somewhere, relying >pretty much exclusively on sighted guide until you're ready to leave >so you can get your cane back. IF it works for you, cool, but it >doesn't work for me. The other option is to try and figure out some >way to keep your cane with you and still be able to use both hands to >dance; it seems like using a telescopic or folding cane is the only >way this could even be practical, but I wanted to get other peoples' >opinions. > Anyways, I have work to do, so I'm done for a little while. Peace! > Best, >Kirt > >On 5/13/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > Exactly! Hopefully, the dancer could be aware of where he stashed his > > cane, so he need not recruit ol' Sighty... > > CarAt 06:46 PM 5/13/2013, you wrote: > >>I suppose if it were that easy, the question would not have to be asked? > >> Personally, I like to think that there are options. There is > >> nothing wrong with asking someone with vision to help you > >> find your cane, but there is also nothing wrong with seeing if > >> there is a way that you can still keep track of your cane and get > >> it when you want and not feel as if you have to feel as if you are > >> bothering someone to grab it. > >> > >> How often to women go dancing with their purse? > >>On May 13, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> > >> > Hi, Can you not just set your cane to the side while you are > >> dancing? You don't need a holster, backpack or anything else. Jus > >> find a place you can reach, or ask ol' sighty to grab it when > >> you're done. Not rocket science! > >> > CarAt 06:12 PM 5/13/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> >> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything > >> >> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking > >> >> about it is kind of hilarious! > >> >> Arielle > >> >> > >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> >> > HI Arielle, > >> >> > I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt > >> >> > loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic > >> >> > canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose > >> >> > it's > >> >> > an option. > >> >> > Best, > >> >> > Kirt > >> >> > > >> >> > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> >> >> Hi all, > >> >> >> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at > >> >> >> age > >> >> >> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat > >> >> >> mitzvahs, > >> >> >> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid > >> >> >> at > >> >> >> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, > >> >> >> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten > >> >> >> most > >> >> >> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is > >> >> >> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and > >> >> >> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me > >> >> >> on > >> >> >> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to > >> >> >> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing > >> >> >> a > >> >> >> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that > >> >> >> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just > >> >> >> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or > >> >> >> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some > >> >> >> things, > >> >> >> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing > >> >> >> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you > >> >> >> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow > >> >> >> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, > >> >> >> but > >> >> >> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you > >> >> >> may > >> >> >> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. > >> >> >> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane > >> >> >> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted > >> >> >> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. > >> >> >> Now > >> >> >> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd > >> >> >> like > >> >> >> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the > >> >> >> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not > >> >> >> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless > >> >> >> I > >> >> >> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is > >> >> >> an > >> >> >> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this > >> >> >> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of > >> >> >> some > >> >> >> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near > >> >> >> that > >> >> >> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. > >> >> >> Arielle > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: > >> >> >>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can > >> dance a little, > >> >> >>> and > >> >> >>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first > >> >> >>> so > >> >> >>> you > >> >> >>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach > >> >> >>> the > >> >> >>> white > >> >> >>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you > >> >> >>> don't > >> >> >>> drink, > >> >> >>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can > >> do the same > >> >> >>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. > >> >> >>> If > >> >> >>> you > >> >> >>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other > >> >> >>> methods > >> >> >>> will > >> >> >>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and > >> >> >>> match. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >> >> >>> Darian > >> >> >>> Smith > >> >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM > >> >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? > >> >> >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to > >> >> >>> partake > >> >> >>> in > >> >> >>> alcoholic beverages? > >> >> >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as > >> >> >>> to > >> >> >>> other > >> >> >>> ways you might go about it? > >> >> >>> Thanks Justin! > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Darian > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> wrote: > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. > >> >> >>>> Sometimes > >> >> >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to > >> >> >>>> dance. > >> >> >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all > >> >> >>>> possible; > >> >> >>>> however, there are just times in social situations where > >> you just have > >> >> >>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try > >> >> >>>> to > >> >> >>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out > >> there with > >> >> >>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you > >> >> >>>> drink, > >> >> >>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you > >> >> >>>> jus > >> >> >>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like > >> dancing, or > >> >> >>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or > >> hopefully you > >> >> >>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are > >> >> >>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. > >> >> >>>> It > >> >> >>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have > >> >> >>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance > >> >> >>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a > >> >> >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an > >> excuse not to > >> >> >>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a > >> girl to teach > >> >> >>> you. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >> >> >>>> Darian > >> >> >>>> Smith > >> >> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM > >> >> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> Hi all, > >> >> >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious > >> >> >>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where > >> dancing is > >> >> >>>> a part of the atmosphere? > >> >> >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how > >> >> >>>> to > >> >> >>>> dance? > >> >> >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? > >> >> >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a > >> >> >>>> lot > >> >> >>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? > >> >> >>>> Thanks! > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> Darian > >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> >> >>>> for > >> >> >>>> nabs-l: > >> >> >>>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > >> >> >>>> 0gmail > >> >> >>>> .com > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> >> >>>> for > >> >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >> >>>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. > >> >> >>>> com > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> >> >>> for > >> >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >> >>> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > >> >> >>> .com > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> >> >>> for > >> >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >> >>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> >> >> for > >> >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> >> > for > >> >> > nabs-l: > >> >> > > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 14 02:31:22 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 20:31:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <395B45E2-243C-4EE1-A9C1-6C538121EDD9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Joshua, I'm with you. Country music is way better than rap, in my opinion. Unfortunately it seems most folks these days would rather dance to rap. Arielle On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > The only dances I attended were school proms, and a dance at the NFB > convention in 2010. > The music was terrible, because they always selected all of that vulgar > stuff. > My girlfriend that I took to my senior prom wanted to dance to "Check > Yourself," by Usher, but I wouldn't have it. > When I dance, I want to have some Ernest Tubb, or some Bob Wills, (the > latter for square-dancing.) > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith > [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:58 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > Joshua, > Why you got to hate on rap music? I mean, I didn't hate on your crummy > country *smile* > Seriously though; do you dislike dancing because you dislike the > selection of music at the venues you have frequented? Or you just > don't like dancing period? > On May 13, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played >> rap music. >> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before >>> me has been male? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>>> guess. :) >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >>>>>> it's >>>>>> an option. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >>>>>>> age >>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>>> things, >>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >>>>>>> Now >>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>>> little, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> white >>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>>> methods >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>>>>>>> match. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>> partake >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>> possible; >>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >>>>>>>>> jus >>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >>>>>>>>> dancing, >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>>>> teach >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >>>>>>>>> dancing >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 14 03:35:43 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 21:35:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <02B1A964-DBFD-480E-AE0F-06E398344C0E@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <02B1A964-DBFD-480E-AE0F-06E398344C0E@gmail.com> Message-ID: I really want to hear from more women about whether the purse-cane stash is a viable option. Arielle On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: > true, > In some cases though, I feel like you are going to have to get someone > with vision to show you some dances like "Gangnam style" or Douggie" > It's not critical if you don't know, but is always helpful If the song > comes on and you want to dance to it (darn catchy songs)., > On May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I've been to quite a few dancing functions, (wedding receptions, >> homecomings and prom, formals and semiformals at my university, etc). >> I think as long as you're moving to the beat and you're having a good >> time it's not a huge deal. A lot of the time the other people around >> you will be so caught up in their own dancing or socializing that they >> won't really take much notice if you're doing something slightly >> unconventional. When in doubt you could always step from side to side >> and just get your shoulders into it. For guys leading a slow dance >> mainly involves putting your hands on the girl's waist or shoulders, >> (whichever she's comfortable with), and just swaying as you step in a >> circle. It can be a little awkward the first time you do it, but it >> is for most guys from what I've seen. >> >> Guys have the advantage of having deep pockets. When I went to prom >> my boyfriend had a straight cane and I had a folding one, so we left >> his at our table and I lead with him holding onto my elbow until we >> got to the dance floor, then I folded up and he put the cane in his >> tux pocket. At the last formal we went to I had a telescopic cane and >> a purse which handily enough had metal rings between the top of the >> purse and the ends of the straps. I was able to slide the cane >> through the loops and because the rings were the right size it was a >> pretty secure fit. It was kind of annoying wearing the purse after a >> while though, and I think I eventually just put it on the table with >> my coat and went without it. I strategically chose my table, so it >> wasn't really an issue of knowing where to go to find it when I needed >> to during the dance. >> >> I've been trying to figure out better ways to go about stowing the >> cane myself, especially when wearing formalwear like a prom dress as >> opposed to just a nicer homecoming-style one. I like taking smaller >> canes that fold up or telescope for situations like this, so I >> probably won't ever bring a straight cane to something like this and >> save eit for more day-to-day use. I think just finding n easily >> locatable spot is key not just for your cane, but so you can find all >> your other stuff when your done dancing. >> >> On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: >>> Yes that does sound pretty funny, now that you mention it, Arielle. But >>> it's not like guys (not many of them at least), rock a purse so… >>> hahahaha >>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:12 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >>>>> an option. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >>>>>> age >>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >>>>>> at >>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >>>>>> a >>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>> things, >>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >>>>>> but >>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >>>>>> may >>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >>>>>> like >>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >>>>>> I >>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >>>>>> some >>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >>>>>> that >>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>> little, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> white >>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>> methods >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>>>>>> match. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >>>>>>>> jus >>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>>> teach >>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 02:36:03 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 19:36:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Working around internet access on college campuses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kaiti, So am I right in understanding that the IT folks on campus tried to address this, but met it with no success? or they never addressed it? Best, Darian On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > Last year I was not able to use the wireless on my BrailleSense while > at school. My university network requires that computers use the > Cisco Nac Agent to log into the network. They do keep a list or > database or something of the access keys for things like XBox360 > systems that wouldn't be able to log on using the Nac Agent and I > asked that my BrailleSense be added to this list. After it still > didn't work I checked with the IT people, even had them read back the > access key to me over the phone so I know it's there, but my > BrailleSense was still not able to connect to the internet. > > It's not a huge deal because like last year I'll probably have my > laptop with me all the time this year, and could use Safari on my > IPhone if I don't and need to look something up in a pinch, but it > would nice to not have to get the laptop out all the time or take it > to every class when the much-smaller BrailleSense could do the job. > I'm curious if anyone else has worked around this with their > university. > > Thanks, > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Tue May 14 03:37:30 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 23:37:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513203111.01c29df0@comcast.net> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513182327.01c055f0@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513185259.01c0a928@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513203111.01c29df0@comcast.net> Message-ID: Oh come on, I know I'm not a moderator, but there's no need for that. And I don't think that's what he meant, sometimes you have to do that. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2013, at 11:32 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Stupid: Do you really think I would trust so much to the unknown? Do you really think I would just set my can down, without making provisions for retrieving it? C'mon!At 07:07 PM 5/13/2013, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> And therein lies the problem. I don't know if you've seen huge dance >> floors but you can't just lean your cane up against a corner for five >> minutes and come back and get it after you're done dancing for a while >> because, as I've said, forcing your way through a huge crowd back to >> that corner without a cane will take enough time to make it not very >> practical. You can't just set it off to the side when you're dancing >> because, well, there are probably no walls close by and you're likely >> to cause some major accidents. So, the yway I see it, there seem to >> be only a couple practical options. The first is to do what you seem >> to be suggesting and set your cane in a corner somewhere, relying >> pretty much exclusively on sighted guide until you're ready to leave >> so you can get your cane back. IF it works for you, cool, but it >> doesn't work for me. The other option is to try and figure out some >> way to keep your cane with you and still be able to use both hands to >> dance; it seems like using a telescopic or folding cane is the only >> way this could even be practical, but I wanted to get other peoples' >> opinions. >> Anyways, I have work to do, so I'm done for a little while. Peace! >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 5/13/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> > Exactly! Hopefully, the dancer could be aware of where he stashed his >> > cane, so he need not recruit ol' Sighty... >> > CarAt 06:46 PM 5/13/2013, you wrote: >> >>I suppose if it were that easy, the question would not have to be asked? >> >> Personally, I like to think that there are options. There is >> >> nothing wrong with asking someone with vision to help you >> >> find your cane, but there is also nothing wrong with seeing if >> >> there is a way that you can still keep track of your cane and get >> >> it when you want and not feel as if you have to feel as if you are >> >> bothering someone to grab it. >> >> >> >> How often to women go dancing with their purse? >> >>On May 13, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >> >> >> > Hi, Can you not just set your cane to the side while you are >> >> dancing? You don't need a holster, backpack or anything else. Jus >> >> find a place you can reach, or ask ol' sighty to grab it when >> >> you're done. Not rocket science! >> >> > CarAt 06:12 PM 5/13/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> >> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >> >> >> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >> >> >> about it is kind of hilarious! >> >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >> >> > HI Arielle, >> >> >> > I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >> >> >> > loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >> >> >> > canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >> >> >> > it's >> >> >> > an option. >> >> >> > Best, >> >> >> > Kirt >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >> >> >> >> age >> >> >> >> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >> >> >> >> mitzvahs, >> >> >> >> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >> >> >> >> at >> >> >> >> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >> >> >> >> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten >> >> >> >> most >> >> >> >> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >> >> >> >> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >> >> >> >> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me >> >> >> >> on >> >> >> >> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >> >> >> >> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >> >> >> >> a >> >> >> >> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >> >> >> >> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >> >> >> >> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >> >> >> >> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >> >> >> >> things, >> >> >> >> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >> >> >> >> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >> >> >> >> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >> >> >> >> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >> >> >> >> but >> >> >> >> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >> >> >> >> may >> >> >> >> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >> >> >> >> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >> >> >> >> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >> >> >> >> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >> >> >> >> Now >> >> >> >> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >> >> >> >> like >> >> >> >> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >> >> >> >> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >> >> >> >> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >> >> >> >> I >> >> >> >> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is >> >> >> >> an >> >> >> >> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >> >> >> >> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >> >> >> >> some >> >> >> >> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >> >> >> >> that >> >> >> >> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >> >> >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >> >> >> >>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can >> >> dance a little, >> >> >> >>> and >> >> >> >>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >> >> >> >>> so >> >> >> >>> you >> >> >> >>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >> >> >> >>> the >> >> >> >>> white >> >> >> >>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you >> >> >> >>> don't >> >> >> >>> drink, >> >> >> >>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can >> >> do the same >> >> >> >>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >> >> >> >>> If >> >> >> >>> you >> >> >> >>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >> >> >> >>> methods >> >> >> >>> will >> >> >> >>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >> >> >> >>> match. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> >> >> >>> Darian >> >> >> >>> Smith >> >> >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >> >> >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >> >> >> >>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >> >> >> >>> partake >> >> >> >>> in >> >> >> >>> alcoholic beverages? >> >> >> >>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >> >> >> >>> to >> >> >> >>> other >> >> >> >>> ways you might go about it? >> >> >> >>> Thanks Justin! >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Darian >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >> >> >> >>>> Sometimes >> >> >> >>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to >> >> >> >>>> dance. >> >> >> >>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >> >> >> >>>> possible; >> >> >> >>>> however, there are just times in social situations where >> >> you just have >> >> >> >>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >> >> >> >>>> to >> >> >> >>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out >> >> there with >> >> >> >>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >> >> >> >>>> drink, >> >> >> >>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >> >> >> >>>> jus >> >> >> >>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >> >> dancing, or >> >> >> >>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or >> >> hopefully you >> >> >> >>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >> >> >> >>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >> >> >> >>>> It >> >> >> >>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >> >> >> >>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >> >> >> >>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >> >> >> >>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an >> >> excuse not to >> >> >> >>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a >> >> girl to teach >> >> >> >>> you. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> >> >> >>>> Darian >> >> >> >>>> Smith >> >> >> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >> >> >> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >> >> >>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >> >> >> >>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >> >> dancing is >> >> >> >>>> a part of the atmosphere? >> >> >> >>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how >> >> >> >>>> to >> >> >> >>>> dance? >> >> >> >>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >> >> >> >>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >> >> >> >>>> lot >> >> >> >>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >> >> >> >>>> Thanks! >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> Darian >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> >>>> for >> >> >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> >> >> >>>> 0gmail >> >> >> >>>> .com >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> >>>> for >> >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >> >> >> >>>> com >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> >>> for >> >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> >> >> >>> .com >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> >>> for >> >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> >> for >> >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> > for >> >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> >> > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for nabs-l: >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>nabs-l mailing list >> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Tue May 14 03:50:25 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 23:50:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <395B45E2-243C-4EE1-A9C1-6C538121EDD9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <809741AC-2DEB-4EA3-81B5-1B2186B33D2B@gmail.com> Oh come on, country is not all that bad. :-) No really it's a lot easier for me to dance to things like rap though because it's faster and I can get more into it. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2013, at 10:31 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Joshua, I'm with you. Country music is way better than rap, in my opinion. > Unfortunately it seems most folks these days would rather dance to rap. > Arielle > > On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> The only dances I attended were school proms, and a dance at the NFB >> convention in 2010. >> The music was terrible, because they always selected all of that vulgar >> stuff. >> My girlfriend that I took to my senior prom wanted to dance to "Check >> Yourself," by Usher, but I wouldn't have it. >> When I dance, I want to have some Ernest Tubb, or some Bob Wills, (the >> latter for square-dancing.) >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:58 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> Joshua, >> Why you got to hate on rap music? I mean, I didn't hate on your crummy >> country *smile* >> Seriously though; do you dislike dancing because you dislike the >> selection of music at the venues you have frequented? Or you just >> don't like dancing period? >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played >>> rap music. >>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >>> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before >>>> me has been male? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>>>> guess. :) >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >>>>>>> it's >>>>>>> an option. >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >>>>>>>> age >>>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>>>> things, >>>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >>>>>>>> Now >>>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>>>> little, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> white >>>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>>>> methods >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>>>>>>>> match. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>>> partake >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>>> possible; >>>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >>>>>>>>>> jus >>>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >>>>>>>>>> dancing, >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>>>>> teach >>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >>>>>>>>>> dancing >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue May 14 03:53:00 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 03:53:00 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <395B45E2-243C-4EE1-A9C1-6C538121EDD9@gmail.com> , Message-ID: I know! I'd even rather have Disco over that mess! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman [arielle71 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 9:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? Joshua, I'm with you. Country music is way better than rap, in my opinion. Unfortunately it seems most folks these days would rather dance to rap. Arielle On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > The only dances I attended were school proms, and a dance at the NFB > convention in 2010. > The music was terrible, because they always selected all of that vulgar > stuff. > My girlfriend that I took to my senior prom wanted to dance to "Check > Yourself," by Usher, but I wouldn't have it. > When I dance, I want to have some Ernest Tubb, or some Bob Wills, (the > latter for square-dancing.) > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith > [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:58 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > Joshua, > Why you got to hate on rap music? I mean, I didn't hate on your crummy > country *smile* > Seriously though; do you dislike dancing because you dislike the > selection of music at the venues you have frequented? Or you just > don't like dancing period? > On May 13, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played >> rap music. >> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before >>> me has been male? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>>> guess. :) >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >>>>>> it's >>>>>> an option. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >>>>>>> age >>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>>> things, >>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >>>>>>> Now >>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>>> little, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> white >>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>>> methods >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>>>>>>> match. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>> partake >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>> possible; >>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >>>>>>>>> jus >>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >>>>>>>>> dancing, >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>>>> teach >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >>>>>>>>> dancing >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 02:13:40 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 19:13:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> That makes sense, a lot of sense. well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost always walks out with someone else's cane haha On May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried > putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose it > by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the process of > doing that so finding my table or corner again without a cane can be > kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, I tend to be a > better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident one. :) > I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't remember if > I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or somewhere else > where I didn't know many people then I think I would keep it on, but I > would probably prefer to carry a small purse that might not be big > enough for the cane. I've actually had the most cane trouble at dances > with other blind people, because everybody has a cane and there aren't > many folks to keep an eye on your cane for you. I suppose the purse or > cane holster might be the best solution, unless there are good sound > cues in the venue and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to > navigate without a cane. > Arielle > > On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played >> rap music. >> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before >>> me has been male? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>>> guess. :) >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >>>>>> an option. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >>>>>>> age >>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>>> things, >>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>>> little, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> white >>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>>> methods >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>>>>>>> match. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >>>>>>>>> jus >>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>>>> teach >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >>>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue May 14 02:17:34 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 22:17:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <395B45E2-243C-4EE1-A9C1-6C538121EDD9@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's great to know the dance staples, (The Macaraina, The YMCA, The Electric Slide, the Cupid Shuffle, etc). There's no shame in asking friends how to do the dances, especially the more complicated ones, but most just follow a pattern, have you turn in a 90 degree angle, and repeat. And of course the Cha Cha Slide is a give me dance that's easy to learn. It really depends on the event you're going to. My prom played nothing but explicit songs except for one slow song from the 90's and We Are Young, but some of the college formals I've gone to have had a really good mix of party music. Sometimes you just have to consider the audience of people that will be at the event and what the music will probably be like. Or, if you're not liking what you hear and want something else, you can find the DJ and make a couple requests. I'm not exactly sure how a belt and holster would go with a formal gown. In that case I'd probably just see if the guy wouldn't mind putting the cane in his tux pocket as long as it will fit. Another potential issue I see with the holster is that the cane would awkwardly flop around during dancing, which could get kind of bothersome after a while. On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > The only dances I attended were school proms, and a dance at the NFB > convention in 2010. > The music was terrible, because they always selected all of that vulgar > stuff. > My girlfriend that I took to my senior prom wanted to dance to "Check > Yourself," by Usher, but I wouldn't have it. > When I dance, I want to have some Ernest Tubb, or some Bob Wills, (the > latter for square-dancing.) > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith > [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:58 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > Joshua, > Why you got to hate on rap music? I mean, I didn't hate on your crummy > country *smile* > Seriously though; do you dislike dancing because you dislike the > selection of music at the venues you have frequented? Or you just > don't like dancing period? > On May 13, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played >> rap music. >> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before >>> me has been male? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>>> guess. :) >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >>>>>> it's >>>>>> an option. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >>>>>>> age >>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>>> things, >>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >>>>>>> Now >>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>>> little, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> white >>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>>> methods >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>>>>>>> match. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>> partake >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>> possible; >>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >>>>>>>>> jus >>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >>>>>>>>> dancing, >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>>>> teach >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >>>>>>>>> dancing >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue May 14 04:07:49 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 22:07:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <395B45E2-243C-4EE1-A9C1-6C538121EDD9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Carley, From your replies to my honest question...yes, it did seem like that's what you were implying. :) On 5/13/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > It's great to know the dance staples, (The Macaraina, The YMCA, The > Electric Slide, the Cupid Shuffle, etc). There's no shame in asking > friends how to do the dances, especially the more complicated ones, > but most just follow a pattern, have you turn in a 90 degree angle, > and repeat. And of course the Cha Cha Slide is a give me dance that's > easy to learn. > > It really depends on the event you're going to. My prom played > nothing but explicit songs except for one slow song from the 90's and > We Are Young, but some of the college formals I've gone to have had a > really good mix of party music. Sometimes you just have to consider > the audience of people that will be at the event and what the music > will probably be like. Or, if you're not liking what you hear and > want something else, you can find the DJ and make a couple requests. > > I'm not exactly sure how a belt and holster would go with a formal > gown. In that case I'd probably just see if the guy wouldn't mind > putting the cane in his tux pocket as long as it will fit. Another > potential issue I see with the holster is that the cane would > awkwardly flop around during dancing, which could get kind of > bothersome after a while. > > On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> The only dances I attended were school proms, and a dance at the NFB >> convention in 2010. >> The music was terrible, because they always selected all of that vulgar >> stuff. >> My girlfriend that I took to my senior prom wanted to dance to "Check >> Yourself," by Usher, but I wouldn't have it. >> When I dance, I want to have some Ernest Tubb, or some Bob Wills, (the >> latter for square-dancing.) >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:58 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> Joshua, >> Why you got to hate on rap music? I mean, I didn't hate on your crummy >> country *smile* >> Seriously though; do you dislike dancing because you dislike the >> selection of music at the venues you have frequented? Or you just >> don't like dancing period? >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only >>> played >>> rap music. >>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >>> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before >>>> me has been male? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>>>> guess. :) >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >>>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >>>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >>>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >>>>>>> it's >>>>>>> an option. >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >>>>>>>> age >>>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>>>> mitzvahs, >>>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >>>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten >>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >>>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >>>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >>>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is >>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >>>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>>>> things, >>>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >>>>>>>> Now >>>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >>>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, >>>>>>>> unless >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >>>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>>>> little, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at >>>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> white >>>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>>>> methods >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>>>>>>>> match. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>>> partake >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to >>>>>>>>>> dance. >>>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>>> possible; >>>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and >>>>>>>>>> try >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >>>>>>>>>> jus >>>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >>>>>>>>>> dancing, >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or >>>>>>>>>> hopefully >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >>>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >>>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >>>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >>>>>>>>> teach >>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >>>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >>>>>>>>>> dancing >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Tue May 14 04:34:18 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 21:34:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <395B45E2-243C-4EE1-A9C1-6C538121EDD9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213130.01f97028@comcast.net> Hi, Kirt, Never did I mean to offend. especially YOU! I don't believe this message to me was all that clear either. At 09:07 PM 5/13/2013, you wrote: >Carley, > From your replies to my honest question...yes, it did seem like >that's what you were implying. :) > >On 5/13/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > > It's great to know the dance staples, (The Macaraina, The YMCA, The > > Electric Slide, the Cupid Shuffle, etc). There's no shame in asking > > friends how to do the dances, especially the more complicated ones, > > but most just follow a pattern, have you turn in a 90 degree angle, > > and repeat. And of course the Cha Cha Slide is a give me dance that's > > easy to learn. > > > > It really depends on the event you're going to. My prom played > > nothing but explicit songs except for one slow song from the 90's and > > We Are Young, but some of the college formals I've gone to have had a > > really good mix of party music. Sometimes you just have to consider > > the audience of people that will be at the event and what the music > > will probably be like. Or, if you're not liking what you hear and > > want something else, you can find the DJ and make a couple requests. > > > > I'm not exactly sure how a belt and holster would go with a formal > > gown. In that case I'd probably just see if the guy wouldn't mind > > putting the cane in his tux pocket as long as it will fit. Another > > potential issue I see with the holster is that the cane would > > awkwardly flop around during dancing, which could get kind of > > bothersome after a while. > > > > On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> The only dances I attended were school proms, and a dance at the NFB > >> convention in 2010. > >> The music was terrible, because they always selected all of that vulgar > >> stuff. > >> My girlfriend that I took to my senior prom wanted to dance to "Check > >> Yourself," by Usher, but I wouldn't have it. > >> When I dance, I want to have some Ernest Tubb, or some Bob Wills, (the > >> latter for square-dancing.) > >> Blessings, Joshua > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith > >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:58 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >> > >> Joshua, > >> Why you got to hate on rap music? I mean, I didn't hate on your crummy > >> country *smile* > >> Seriously though; do you dislike dancing because you dislike the > >> selection of music at the venues you have frequented? Or you just > >> don't like dancing period? > >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> > >>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! > >>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only > >>> played > >>> rap music. > >>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? > >>> Blessings, Joshua > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith > >>> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >>> > >>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha > >>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before > >>>> me has been male? > >>>> Arielle > >>>> > >>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >>>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose > >>>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about > >>>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I > >>>>> guess. :) > >>>>> > >>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything > >>>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking > >>>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! > >>>>>> Arielle > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >>>>>>> HI Arielle, > >>>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt > >>>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic > >>>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose > >>>>>>> it's > >>>>>>> an option. > >>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>> Kirt > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at > >>>>>>>> age > >>>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat > >>>>>>>> mitzvahs, > >>>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid > >>>>>>>> at > >>>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, > >>>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten > >>>>>>>> most > >>>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is > >>>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and > >>>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me > >>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to > >>>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is > >>>>>>>> doing > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that > >>>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just > >>>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or > >>>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some > >>>>>>>> things, > >>>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing > >>>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you > >>>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow > >>>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, > >>>>>>>> but > >>>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you > >>>>>>>> may > >>>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. > >>>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane > >>>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted > >>>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. > >>>>>>>> Now > >>>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd > >>>>>>>> like > >>>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the > >>>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not > >>>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, > >>>>>>>> unless > >>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is > >>>>>>>> an > >>>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this > >>>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of > >>>>>>>> some > >>>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near > >>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. > >>>>>>>> Arielle > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a > >>>>>>>>> little, > >>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at > >>>>>>>>> first > >>>>>>>>> so > >>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> white > >>>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you > >>>>>>>>> don't > >>>>>>>>> drink, > >>>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> same > >>>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. > >>>>>>>>> If > >>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other > >>>>>>>>> methods > >>>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and > >>>>>>>>> match. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >>>>>>>>> Darian > >>>>>>>>> Smith > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM > >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? > >>>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to > >>>>>>>>> partake > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? > >>>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? > >>>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Darian > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. > >>>>>>>>>> Sometimes > >>>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to > >>>>>>>>>> dance. > >>>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all > >>>>>>>>>> possible; > >>>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just > >>>>>>>>>> have > >>>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and > >>>>>>>>>> try > >>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there > >>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you > >>>>>>>>>> drink, > >>>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you > >>>>>>>>>> jus > >>>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like > >>>>>>>>>> dancing, > >>>>>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or > >>>>>>>>>> hopefully > >>>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are > >>>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. > >>>>>>>>>> It > >>>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have > >>>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance > >>>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a > >>>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse > >>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to > >>>>>>>>> teach > >>>>>>>>> you. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >>>>>>>>>> Darian > >>>>>>>>>> Smith > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM > >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious > >>>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where > >>>>>>>>>> dancing > >>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? > >>>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how > >>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> dance? > >>>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? > >>>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a > >>>>>>>>>> lot > >>>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Darian > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > >>>>>>>>>> 0gmail > >>>>>>>>>> .com > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. > >>>>>>>>>> com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > >>>>>>>>> .com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > Kaiti > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Tue May 14 04:36:20 2013 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 00:36:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] citation question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24A1BF2D-9AAD-4476-A4AD-C0B80C791D44@aol.com> At the very least you can create a citation without giving an author. It will be credible because I have used the statistic in a paper. Are your citations in MLA or APA? Sent from my iPad On May 13, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Probably Chris Danielsen would know at least where to look. > > > On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> No sources are listed on the fact sheet. Does anyone know who at >> national would be coordinating this information? >> Arielle >> >> On 5/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>> Hi Arielle , >>> >>> Have you tried contacting someone from the national center about this? It >>> would seem to me that whoever wrote the factsheet would have the original >>> source for this information. Although, I am rather surprised that the >>> source >>> >>> for this information is not listed on the factsheet itself. >>> >>> Good luck, >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:52 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> ; "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind >>> children)" ; >>> Subject: [nabs-l] citation question >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I'm unsure if any of you know the answer to this, but hoping that you >>>> could either find the answer for me or send this to someone who would >>>> know. On the NFB website there is a fact sheet about blindness, which >>>> states that according to a recent Gallup poll, blindness is the third >>>> most feared "disease" among Americans, surpassed only by AIDS and >>>> cancer. I've heard that statistic several times but can't find the >>>> citation for the actual Gallup poll where this was reported. I'd like >>>> to include this statistic in an academic article I am writing about >>>> blindness simulations and it would be great if I could cite the >>>> original Gallup poll. Could anyone please send me the primary citation >>>> for this fact, or at least an academic source where this fact is >>>> stated? Thanks! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > — > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From carlymih at comcast.net Tue May 14 04:38:53 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 21:38:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) CarAt 07:13 PM 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >That makes sense, a lot of sense. > well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone > succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had > something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into > cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* > > at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that > it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost > always walks out with someone else's cane haha >On May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > > I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried > > putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose it > > by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the process of > > doing that so finding my table or corner again without a cane can be > > kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, I tend to be a > > better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident one. :) > > I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't remember if > > I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or somewhere else > > where I didn't know many people then I think I would keep it on, but I > > would probably prefer to carry a small purse that might not be big > > enough for the cane. I've actually had the most cane trouble at dances > > with other blind people, because everybody has a cane and there aren't > > many folks to keep an eye on your cane for you. I suppose the purse or > > cane holster might be the best solution, unless there are good sound > > cues in the venue and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to > > navigate without a cane. > > Arielle > > > > On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! > >> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played > >> rap music. > >> Where's the classic Country when I need it? > >> Blessings, Joshua > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith > >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >> > >> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha > >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >> > >>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before > >>> me has been male? > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose > >>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about > >>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I > >>>> guess. :) > >>>> > >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything > >>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking > >>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! > >>>>> Arielle > >>>>> > >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >>>>>> HI Arielle, > >>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt > >>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic > >>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's > >>>>>> an option. > >>>>>> Best, > >>>>>> Kirt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and > >>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at > >>>>>>> age > >>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, > >>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid > >>>>>>> at > >>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, > >>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most > >>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is > >>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the > >>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and > >>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on > >>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to > >>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that > >>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just > >>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or > >>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some > >>>>>>> things, > >>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing > >>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you > >>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow > >>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, > >>>>>>> but > >>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you > >>>>>>> may > >>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. > >>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane > >>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted > >>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now > >>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd > >>>>>>> like > >>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the > >>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not > >>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless > >>>>>>> I > >>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an > >>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this > >>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of > >>>>>>> some > >>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near > >>>>>>> that > >>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. > >>>>>>> Arielle > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: > >>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a > >>>>>>>> little, > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first > >>>>>>>> so > >>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> white > >>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't > >>>>>>>> drink, > >>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the > >>>>>>>> same > >>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. > >>>>>>>> If > >>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other > >>>>>>>> methods > >>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and > >>>>>>>> match. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian > >>>>>>>> Smith > >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM > >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? > >>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? > >>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? > >>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Darian > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. > >>>>>>>>> Sometimes > >>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. > >>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; > >>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just > >>>>>>>>> have > >>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there > >>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you > >>>>>>>>> drink, > >>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you > >>>>>>>>> jus > >>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, > >>>>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully > >>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are > >>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It > >>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have > >>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance > >>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a > >>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse > >>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to > >>>>>>>> teach > >>>>>>>> you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian > >>>>>>>>> Smith > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM > >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious > >>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing > >>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? > >>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to > >>>>>>>>> dance? > >>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? > >>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a > >>>>>>>>> lot > >>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? > >>>>>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Darian > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > >>>>>>>>> 0gmail > >>>>>>>>> .com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. > >>>>>>>>> com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > >>>>>>>> .com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue May 14 04:45:21 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 22:45:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> Message-ID: Carly, I'm not offended at all, so don't even worry about it. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2013, at 10:38 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) > CarAt 07:13 PM 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* >> >> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost always walks out with someone else's cane haha >> On May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> > I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >> > putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose it >> > by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the process of >> > doing that so finding my table or corner again without a cane can be >> > kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, I tend to be a >> > better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident one. :) >> > I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't remember if >> > I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or somewhere else >> > where I didn't know many people then I think I would keep it on, but I >> > would probably prefer to carry a small purse that might not be big >> > enough for the cane. I've actually had the most cane trouble at dances >> > with other blind people, because everybody has a cane and there aren't >> > many folks to keep an eye on your cane for you. I suppose the purse or >> > cane holster might be the best solution, unless there are good sound >> > cues in the venue and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to >> > navigate without a cane. >> > Arielle >> > >> > On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >> >> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played >> >> rap music. >> >> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >> >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >> >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> >> >> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >> >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> >> >>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread before >> >>> me has been male? >> >>> Arielle >> >>> >> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >> >>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >> >>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >> >>>> guess. :) >> >>>> >> >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing anything >> >>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just thinking >> >>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >> >>>>> Arielle >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>>>>> HI Arielle, >> >>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >> >>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for telescopic >> >>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose it's >> >>>>>> an option. >> >>>>>> Best, >> >>>>>> Kirt >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar and >> >>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen at >> >>>>>>> age >> >>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat mitzvahs, >> >>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking stupid >> >>>>>>> at >> >>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to dance, >> >>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most >> >>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is >> >>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of the >> >>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun and >> >>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on >> >>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to >> >>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing >> >>>>>>> a >> >>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >> >>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >> >>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink or >> >>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >> >>>>>>> things, >> >>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >> >>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >> >>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >> >>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, >> >>>>>>> but >> >>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women you >> >>>>>>> may >> >>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >> >>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >> >>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >> >>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. Now >> >>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and I'd >> >>>>>>> like >> >>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on the >> >>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >> >>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, unless >> >>>>>>> I >> >>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >> >>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage this >> >>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark of >> >>>>>>> some >> >>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner near >> >>>>>>> that >> >>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >> >>>>>>> Arielle >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >> >>>>>>>> little, >> >>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at first >> >>>>>>>> so >> >>>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts teach >> >>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>> white >> >>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't >> >>>>>>>> drink, >> >>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the >> >>>>>>>> same >> >>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >> >>>>>>>> If >> >>>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >> >>>>>>>> methods >> >>>>>>>> will >> >>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >> >>>>>>>> match. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >> >>>>>>>> Smith >> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >> >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >> >>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to partake >> >>>>>>>> in >> >>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >> >>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious as >> >>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>> other >> >>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >> >>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Darian >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >> >>>>>>>>> Sometimes >> >>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >> >>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all possible; >> >>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you just >> >>>>>>>>> have >> >>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and try >> >>>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out there >> >>>>>>>>> with >> >>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >> >>>>>>>>> drink, >> >>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, you >> >>>>>>>>> jus >> >>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, >> >>>>>>>>> or >> >>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully >> >>>>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >> >>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. It >> >>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I have >> >>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the dance >> >>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with a >> >>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an excuse >> >>>>>>>>> not >> >>>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl to >> >>>>>>>> teach >> >>>>>>>> you. >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >> >>>>>>>>> Smith >> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >> >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am curious >> >>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where dancing >> >>>>>>>>> is >> >>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >> >>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know how to >> >>>>>>>>> dance? >> >>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >> >>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what a >> >>>>>>>>> lot >> >>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Darian >> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> >>>>>>>>> 0gmail >> >>>>>>>>> .com >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >> >>>>>>>>> com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> >>>>>>>> .com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From kaybaycar at gmail.com Tue May 14 05:51:11 2013 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 00:51:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi all, I don't go to these types of functions a lot if I can help it... But I used to go to formals when I was in high school. Back then I went with a group of friends. We all had a pact that we would never leave one of our group alone. It wasn't about me being blind or anything; we just didn't want to lose each other. Of course, that isn't practical now that I'm older. But I don't think I would ever set my cane aside in a corner or against a wall at a dance party. There are too many people. It is very easy to lose your friends or whoever you are with. Dances are also kind of disorienting to me because of the noise and the crowds, so I would feel nervous without my cane to help me get out. For the women, I would suggest getting a purse. You can get a light wait one that hangs over your shoulder and in front of you. Just make it as light as you can to help you dance, but make sure it's big enough for a cane. There are all types of purses. If your outfit is dark, you can match a black one, and if you're wearing a brighter colored dress, then go with something silver. Having a matching dress and shoes is always a good way to go. You don't even need a heavy leather purse. A light, cloth one will do. It also depends on your dress too and how formal the event is. To be honest, I would feel safer keeping a purse on me as a blind person because I would hate to misplace something like that at a dance and be unable to find it again. Also, girls, a purse is a great place to store the heals when you get tired of them. As for the dancing, I don't know since I avoid it whenever possible. I'd rather talk to people and listen to music I actually like. The club type music isn't really my thing either. But it's easy enough to learn standard dances from a trusted friend or family member. My friends taught me and/or led me through all those dances in high school. But I'd still rather not dance at all. :) On 5/13/13, Kirt wrote: > Carly, > I'm not offended at all, so don't even worry about it. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 13, 2013, at 10:38 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) >> CarAt 07:13 PM 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >>> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >>> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone succeeding a >>> little more so at traveling when they have had something to drink; guess >>> we should try to incorporate that into cane travel curriculum at our >>> training centers *smile* >>> >>> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that it's >>> tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost always walks >>> out with someone else's cane haha >>> On May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>> > I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >>> > putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose it >>> > by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the process of >>> > doing that so finding my table or corner again without a cane can be >>> > kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, I tend to be a >>> > better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident one. :) >>> > I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't remember if >>> > I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or somewhere else >>> > where I didn't know many people then I think I would keep it on, but I >>> > would probably prefer to carry a small purse that might not be big >>> > enough for the cane. I've actually had the most cane trouble at dances >>> > with other blind people, because everybody has a cane and there aren't >>> > many folks to keep an eye on your cane for you. I suppose the purse or >>> > cane holster might be the best solution, unless there are good sound >>> > cues in the venue and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to >>> > navigate without a cane. >>> > Arielle >>> > >>> > On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> >> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>> >> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only >>> >> played >>> >> rap music. >>> >> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>> >> Blessings, Joshua >>> >> ________________________________________ >>> >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >>> >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>> >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >> >>> >> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >>> >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread >>> >>> before >>> >>> me has been male? >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>> >>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>> >>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>> >>>> guess. :) >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>> >>>>> anything >>> >>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just >>> >>>>> thinking >>> >>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>> >>>>> Arielle >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>>>> HI Arielle, >>> >>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>> >>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for >>> >>>>>> telescopic >>> >>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >>> >>>>>> it's >>> >>>>>> an option. >>> >>>>>> Best, >>> >>>>>> Kirt >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >>> >>>>>>> and >>> >>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen >>> >>>>>>> at >>> >>>>>>> age >>> >>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>> >>>>>>> mitzvahs, >>> >>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking >>> >>>>>>> stupid >>> >>>>>>> at >>> >>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to >>> >>>>>>> dance, >>> >>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten >>> >>>>>>> most >>> >>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing >>> >>>>>>> is >>> >>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >>> >>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun >>> >>>>>>> and >>> >>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me >>> >>>>>>> on >>> >>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need >>> >>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is >>> >>>>>>> doing >>> >>>>>>> a >>> >>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>> >>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>> >>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink >>> >>>>>>> or >>> >>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>> >>>>>>> things, >>> >>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>> >>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>> >>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>> >>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the >>> >>>>>>> man, >>> >>>>>>> but >>> >>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women >>> >>>>>>> you >>> >>>>>>> may >>> >>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>> >>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my >>> >>>>>>> cane >>> >>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>> >>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >>> >>>>>>> Now >>> >>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and >>> >>>>>>> I'd >>> >>>>>>> like >>> >>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on >>> >>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>> >>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, >>> >>>>>>> unless >>> >>>>>>> I >>> >>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is >>> >>>>>>> an >>> >>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage >>> >>>>>>> this >>> >>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark >>> >>>>>>> of >>> >>>>>>> some >>> >>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner >>> >>>>>>> near >>> >>>>>>> that >>> >>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>> >>>>>>> Arielle >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance >>> >>>>>>>> a >>> >>>>>>>> little, >>> >>>>>>>> and >>> >>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at >>> >>>>>>>> first >>> >>>>>>>> so >>> >>>>>>>> you >>> >>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts >>> >>>>>>>> teach >>> >>>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>>> white >>> >>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you >>> >>>>>>>> don't >>> >>>>>>>> drink, >>> >>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do >>> >>>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>>> same >>> >>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same >>> >>>>>>>> way. >>> >>>>>>>> If >>> >>>>>>>> you >>> >>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>> >>>>>>>> methods >>> >>>>>>>> will >>> >>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>> >>>>>>>> match. >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>> >>>>>>>> Smith >>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>> >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>> >>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>> >>>>>>>> partake >>> >>>>>>>> in >>> >>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>> >>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious >>> >>>>>>>> as >>> >>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> other >>> >>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>> >>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>> >>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to >>> >>>>>>>>> dance. >>> >>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>> >>>>>>>>> possible; >>> >>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you >>> >>>>>>>>> just >>> >>>>>>>>> have >>> >>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and >>> >>>>>>>>> try >>> >>>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out >>> >>>>>>>>> there >>> >>>>>>>>> with >>> >>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>> >>>>>>>>> drink, >>> >>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, >>> >>>>>>>>> you >>> >>>>>>>>> jus >>> >>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >>> >>>>>>>>> dancing, >>> >>>>>>>>> or >>> >>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or >>> >>>>>>>>> hopefully >>> >>>>>>>>> you >>> >>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you >>> >>>>>>>>> are >>> >>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >>> >>>>>>>>> It >>> >>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I >>> >>>>>>>>> have >>> >>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the >>> >>>>>>>>> dance >>> >>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with >>> >>>>>>>>> a >>> >>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an >>> >>>>>>>>> excuse >>> >>>>>>>>> not >>> >>>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl >>> >>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> teach >>> >>>>>>>> you. >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>> >>>>>>>>> Smith >>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>> >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>> >>>>>>>>> curious >>> >>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >>> >>>>>>>>> dancing >>> >>>>>>>>> is >>> >>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>> >>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know >>> >>>>>>>>> how to >>> >>>>>>>>> dance? >>> >>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>> >>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what >>> >>>>>>>>> a >>> >>>>>>>>> lot >>> >>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> >>>>>>>>> info >>> >>>>>>>>> for >>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>> >>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>> >>>>>>>>> .com >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> >>>>>>>>> info >>> >>>>>>>>> for >>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>> >>>>>>>>> com >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> >>>>>>>> info >>> >>>>>>>> for >>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> >>>>>>>> .com >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> >>>>>>>> info >>> >>>>>>>> for >>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>>>>> for >>> >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>>>> for >>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>>> for >>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>> for >>> >>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From kaybaycar at gmail.com Tue May 14 05:59:22 2013 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 00:59:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: References: <001001ce4eb3$b54b3340$1fe199c0$@gmail.com> <-2797072923736850280@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Another option worth mentioning is connecting the braille note to the iphone with blue tooth. I send a lot of messages that way. I also dictate using Siri and love it. I have sent emails that way, but it's difficult to edit emails, so it's not my favorite. On 5/13/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > Sorry. I meant compact voice. It's under settings, general, > accessibility, and voiceover. You have to scroll down to the options > which include typing feedback, use pitch change, use phonetics and > it's in that sort of cluster of options. It does change the voice > slightly, but even if you hate it at first like I did you can get used > to it and it really does speed up the IPhone's response. > > On 5/13/13, christopher nusbaum wrote: >> Do you mean compact voice? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 12, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> How do you get compact mode? >>> I'm looking on my new phone and under voice over I see no option for >>> changing the voices or anything. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: justin williams >>> Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:54 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone >>> >>> Is compact mode on the eye phone five? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:06 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I have an IPhone and have used the touch screen for everything. (I have >>> a >>> 4 >>> so I don't have Siri or dictation until I get an upgrade). >>> There are a few settings you can change on your phone to make using the >>> touch screen on the IPhone much like the experience a sighted person >>> has, >>> and it makes the process a lot less tedious. >>> >>> 1. Change the typing mode to touch typing by going into messages, >>> double >>> tapping the edit field to bring up the keyboard, and making the roter >>> motion >>> until you hear it say typing mode. Swipe up or down with one finger >>> till >>> you hear touch typing instead of standard. Touch typing allows you to >>> input >>> letters by just touching it and lifting your finger off of the screen. >>> Voiceover still announces the letter your finger is over, but instead of >>> double tapping to select it you can just lift off. >>> 2. Change voice over to only speak characters, or nothing at all in >>> terms >>> of >>> feedback. I like having characters spoken to me so I can hear if I make >>> mistakes, but having it speak words can slow it down. >>> 3. Change the voice to compact mode. I resisted this for about a year >>> and >>> a half, but it really does speed up your phone dramatically. >>> I've found it has a big difference on how fast I can touch type, and now >>> the >>> time it takes me to send a text message is comparable to some of my >>> slower >>> sighted friends. It's not quite the same since we still have to hear >>> what >>> we're doing, but it's about as fast as we can get by using the touch >>> screen. >>> >>> Hope these help. >>> >>> On 5/12/13, Josh Gregory wrote: >>>> Good evening, no, dictation is separate from Siri. The software is >>>> built directly into the operating system. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, "Ian Perrault" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Patrick >>>>> Texting on the IPhone is great. Yes, you can buy a bluetooth >>>>> keyboard, I have one. But you can also press dictate, and just >>>>> dictate your text messages. Or, you can feel around the keyboard, and >>>>> when you find the letter you want, double-tap it and it will be >>>>> inserted. Tedious process, but with auto-correct it can be duable. >>>>> Ian >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Tue May 14 14:02:36 2013 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:02:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can dance if I want to? Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE408@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> My opinion is a little different on this one. I think its really important to dance correctly. Even little things can make you look awkward. Maybe I'm a little perfectionistic in this area, but there are a lot of very subtle moves involved in dancing. If it doesn't come naturally to you, you need to really work on it. I've seen a lot of visually impaired people that have no idea what's going on. On the other hand, I've seen a lot of people that are doing just fine. Zunaira -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 11:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? I really want to hear from more women about whether the purse-cane stash is a viable option. Arielle On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: > true, > In some cases though, I feel like you are going to have to get someone > with vision to show you some dances like "Gangnam style" or Douggie" > It's not critical if you don't know, but is always helpful If the > song comes on and you want to dance to it (darn catchy songs)., On > May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I've been to quite a few dancing functions, (wedding receptions, >> homecomings and prom, formals and semiformals at my university, etc). >> I think as long as you're moving to the beat and you're having a good >> time it's not a huge deal. A lot of the time the other people around >> you will be so caught up in their own dancing or socializing that >> they won't really take much notice if you're doing something slightly >> unconventional. When in doubt you could always step from side to >> side and just get your shoulders into it. For guys leading a slow >> dance mainly involves putting your hands on the girl's waist or >> shoulders, (whichever she's comfortable with), and just swaying as >> you step in a circle. It can be a little awkward the first time you >> do it, but it is for most guys from what I've seen. >> >> Guys have the advantage of having deep pockets. When I went to prom >> my boyfriend had a straight cane and I had a folding one, so we left >> his at our table and I lead with him holding onto my elbow until we >> got to the dance floor, then I folded up and he put the cane in his >> tux pocket. At the last formal we went to I had a telescopic cane >> and a purse which handily enough had metal rings between the top of >> the purse and the ends of the straps. I was able to slide the cane >> through the loops and because the rings were the right size it was a >> pretty secure fit. It was kind of annoying wearing the purse after a >> while though, and I think I eventually just put it on the table with >> my coat and went without it. I strategically chose my table, so it >> wasn't really an issue of knowing where to go to find it when I >> needed to during the dance. >> >> I've been trying to figure out better ways to go about stowing the >> cane myself, especially when wearing formalwear like a prom dress as >> opposed to just a nicer homecoming-style one. I like taking smaller >> canes that fold up or telescope for situations like this, so I >> probably won't ever bring a straight cane to something like this and >> save eit for more day-to-day use. I think just finding n easily >> locatable spot is key not just for your cane, but so you can find all >> your other stuff when your done dancing. >> >> On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: >>> Yes that does sound pretty funny, now that you mention it, Arielle. >>> But it's not like guys (not many of them at least), rock a purse >>> so... hahahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:12 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>>> anything that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? >>>> Just thinking about it is kind of hilarious! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for >>>>> telescopic canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but >>>>> I suppose it's an option. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >>>>>> and bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that >>>>>> happen at age >>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>> mitzvahs, so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially >>>>>> looking stupid at quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people >>>>>> taught me how to dance, though I can't remember who and honestly, >>>>>> by now I've forgotten most of my formal instruction. I do >>>>>> remember being told that dancing is mainly about having fun and >>>>>> just moving your body to the beat of the music. I'm sure I don't >>>>>> dance perfectly but I've always had fun and nobody has ever >>>>>> criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on the dance >>>>>> floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to worry >>>>>> too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink >>>>>> or snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>> things, you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of >>>>>> dancing experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and >>>>>> tell you what's good and what you could change or improve on. >>>>>> Also, slow dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to >>>>>> follow the man, but if you're a guy and want to learn how to >>>>>> slow-dance with women you may want to get a little bit of formal >>>>>> instruction. >>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane >>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >>>>>> Now I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and >>>>>> I'd like to be able to keep track of my cane myself without >>>>>> having it on the dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event >>>>>> I usually am not wearing clothes that allow for storage of a >>>>>> telescoping cane, unless I bring a purse and keep it on me while >>>>>> dancing, which I suppose is an option. I'm curious if others have >>>>>> found good ways to manage this issue. The best solution I've used >>>>>> is to find a sound landmark of some sort like the bar or music >>>>>> stand and put my cane in a corner near that spot. But this >>>>>> doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a >>>>>>> little, and is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body >>>>>>> for you at first so you can get the movement. In japah, that is >>>>>>> how the black belts teach the white belts. That is how my >>>>>>> instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't drink, then that is >>>>>>> fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same >>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>> methods will work just fine. You just got to mix and match my >>>>>>> man. Mix and match. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Darian Smith >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>> partake in alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious >>>>>>> as to other ways you might go about it? >>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to dance. >>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>> possible; however, there are just times in social situations >>>>>>>> where you just have to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just >>>>>>>> move your hips and try to keep up with the beat. There are a >>>>>>>> lot of other people out there with you who can't dance either. >>>>>>>> They also look terrible. If you drink, it loosen's you up just >>>>>>>> a little. It doen't make you better, you jus think you are. >>>>>>>> Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't >>>>>>>> very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you >>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are >>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >>>>>>>> It helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I >>>>>>>> have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the >>>>>>>> dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go >>>>>>>> out with a group of people because I am using trips to the bar >>>>>>>> as an excuse not to >>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl >>>>>>> to teach you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Darian Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>>>>>>> curious about how you all go about attending social functions >>>>>>>> where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know >>>>>>>> how to dance? >>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what >>>>>>>> a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.will >>>>>>>> iams2%4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willi >>>>>>> ams2%40gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40 >>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>>>>> e%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gma >>>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10 >>> 4%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail >> .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 14:16:02 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 07:16:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> Message-ID: <76D0DB68-3C75-4E8E-B286-E4E75058B902@gmail.com> So I guess the main takeaways are… 1. If you want to learn how to dance, it is best to get a friend or family member to teach you. 2 It's probably better to use a collapsable/telescoping cane, especially in larger dance halls. 3. Confidence (as in many aspects in life) is key; even if it's liquid courage *smile* (don't worry under-agers, confidence is much better than the alternative because you'll feel better in the morning hahaha) 4. ladies, it's all in the purse (where would we be without you, Julie? *smile*). 5. ladies: feel free to use your date as a cane storer( … if it works… I'm starting to get the idea that the ladies have a easier time here than the fellas). 6. Cane holders may or not be an option ( experimentation is probably where it's at on this one, again, unless your date doubles as a cane storer *smile*) 7. It's all about country music… no, it's all about rap… nope, all about having fun, so just go with it! does that just about cover it? yay for NABS! now back to the academic stuff. ) . On May 13, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi all, I don't go to these types of functions a lot if I can help > it... But I used to go to formals when I was in high school. Back > then I went with a group of friends. We all had a pact that we would > never leave one of our group alone. It wasn't about me being blind or > anything; we just didn't want to lose each other. > > Of course, that isn't practical now that I'm older. But I don't > think I would ever set my cane aside in a corner or against a wall at > a dance party. There are too many people. It is very easy to lose > your friends or whoever you are with. Dances are also kind of > disorienting to me because of the noise and the crowds, so I would > feel nervous without my cane to help me get out. For the women, I > would suggest getting a purse. You can get a light wait one that > hangs over your shoulder and in front of you. Just make it as light > as you can to help you dance, but make sure it's big enough for a > cane. There are all types of purses. If your outfit is dark, you can > match a black one, and if you're wearing a brighter colored dress, > then go with something silver. Having a matching dress and shoes is > always a good way to go. You don't even need a heavy leather purse. > A light, cloth one will do. It also depends on your dress too and how > formal the event is. To be honest, I would feel safer keeping a purse > on me as a blind person because I would hate to misplace something > like that at a dance and be unable to find it again. Also, girls, a > purse is a great place to store the heals when you get tired of them. > > As for the dancing, I don't know since I avoid it whenever possible. > I'd rather talk to people and listen to music I actually like. The > club type music isn't really my thing either. But it's easy enough to > learn standard dances from a trusted friend or family member. My > friends taught me and/or led me through all those dances in high > school. But I'd still rather not dance at all. :) > > On 5/13/13, Kirt wrote: >> Carly, >> I'm not offended at all, so don't even worry about it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 13, 2013, at 10:38 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >>> A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) >>> CarAt 07:13 PM 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >>>> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >>>> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone succeeding a >>>> little more so at traveling when they have had something to drink; guess >>>> we should try to incorporate that into cane travel curriculum at our >>>> training centers *smile* >>>> >>>> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that it's >>>> tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost always walks >>>> out with someone else's cane haha >>>> On May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >>>>> putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose it >>>>> by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the process of >>>>> doing that so finding my table or corner again without a cane can be >>>>> kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, I tend to be a >>>>> better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident one. :) >>>>> I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't remember if >>>>> I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or somewhere else >>>>> where I didn't know many people then I think I would keep it on, but I >>>>> would probably prefer to carry a small purse that might not be big >>>>> enough for the cane. I've actually had the most cane trouble at dances >>>>> with other blind people, because everybody has a cane and there aren't >>>>> many folks to keep an eye on your cane for you. I suppose the purse or >>>>> cane holster might be the best solution, unless there are good sound >>>>> cues in the venue and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to >>>>> navigate without a cane. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>>>>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only >>>>>> played >>>>>> rap music. >>>>>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >>>>>> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>> >>>>>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread >>>>>>> before >>>>>>> me has been male? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I suppose >>>>>>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>>>>>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>>>>>>> guess. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>>>>>>>> anything >>>>>>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just >>>>>>>>> thinking >>>>>>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>>>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for >>>>>>>>>> telescopic >>>>>>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I suppose >>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>> an option. >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> age >>>>>>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>>>>>>> mitzvahs, >>>>>>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking >>>>>>>>>>> stupid >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to >>>>>>>>>>> dance, >>>>>>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten >>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is >>>>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>>>>>>>>> things, >>>>>>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>>>>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell you >>>>>>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>>>>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the >>>>>>>>>>> man, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my >>>>>>>>>>> cane >>>>>>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. >>>>>>>>>>> Now >>>>>>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and >>>>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am not >>>>>>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, >>>>>>>>>>> unless >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner >>>>>>>>>>> near >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> little, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at >>>>>>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts >>>>>>>>>>>> teach >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> white >>>>>>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you >>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same >>>>>>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>>>>>>> methods >>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix and >>>>>>>>>>>> match. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>>>>>> partake >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious >>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to >>>>>>>>>>>>> dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>>>>>> possible; >>>>>>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you >>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips and >>>>>>>>>>>>> try >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out >>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>> drink, >>>>>>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> jus >>>>>>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >>>>>>>>>>>>> dancing, >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or >>>>>>>>>>>>> hopefully >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> dance >>>>>>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out with >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an >>>>>>>>>>>>> excuse >>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> teach >>>>>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>>>>>>>>>>>> curious >>>>>>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >>>>>>>>>>>>> dancing >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know >>>>>>>>>>>>> how to >>>>>>>>>>>>> dance? >>>>>>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, > Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, > and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue May 14 14:17:27 2013 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:17:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> Message-ID: Wow, lots of opinions on this topic! Ok, so to answer Arielle's question of cane stowing in dresses... Yeah, there is no, um, discrete place to stow a cane in a dress, unlike a phone... There are clutches that are more like envelopes shaped instead of the little classic clutch shape. I saw some by Tory Birch and betsy Johnson. Arielle you are close to my height so if you get a 55 telescoping, or maybe even a bit shorter since you won't be using it all the time, you should be able to fit it in the clutch. I've chosen to always have a cane, even if it's a bit shorter than my regular straight cane, than having nothing at all. I have to say, unless I'm with a group of good girlfriends, I don't like putting my cane down as it can be extremely disorienting in a loud club that big and crowded with people. If you are with a group of friends and feel comfortable with this technique, and need rescuing, you can develop hand signals. Lots of girls do this, so if you need to be whisked away from an undesirable, it is subtle and effective... And as for actual dancing, ladies move those hips and don't be stiff. For specific dances like single ladies, and such, you can always get a group of friends together and learn the moves on a weekend. It makes for great laughs and next time you go to a party you will have the option of not sitting out! Mary F On 5/14/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi all, I don't go to these types of functions a lot if I can help > it... But I used to go to formals when I was in high school. Back > then I went with a group of friends. We all had a pact that we would > never leave one of our group alone. It wasn't about me being blind or > anything; we just didn't want to lose each other. > > Of course, that isn't practical now that I'm older. But I don't > think I would ever set my cane aside in a corner or against a wall at > a dance party. There are too many people. It is very easy to lose > your friends or whoever you are with. Dances are also kind of > disorienting to me because of the noise and the crowds, so I would > feel nervous without my cane to help me get out. For the women, I > would suggest getting a purse. You can get a light wait one that > hangs over your shoulder and in front of you. Just make it as light > as you can to help you dance, but make sure it's big enough for a > cane. There are all types of purses. If your outfit is dark, you can > match a black one, and if you're wearing a brighter colored dress, > then go with something silver. Having a matching dress and shoes is > always a good way to go. You don't even need a heavy leather purse. > A light, cloth one will do. It also depends on your dress too and how > formal the event is. To be honest, I would feel safer keeping a purse > on me as a blind person because I would hate to misplace something > like that at a dance and be unable to find it again. Also, girls, a > purse is a great place to store the heals when you get tired of them. > > As for the dancing, I don't know since I avoid it whenever possible. > I'd rather talk to people and listen to music I actually like. The > club type music isn't really my thing either. But it's easy enough to > learn standard dances from a trusted friend or family member. My > friends taught me and/or led me through all those dances in high > school. But I'd still rather not dance at all. :) > > On 5/13/13, Kirt wrote: >> Carly, >> I'm not offended at all, so don't even worry about it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 13, 2013, at 10:38 PM, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >>> A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) >>> CarAt 07:13 PM 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >>>> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >>>> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone succeeding >>>> a >>>> little more so at traveling when they have had something to drink; >>>> guess >>>> we should try to incorporate that into cane travel curriculum at our >>>> training centers *smile* >>>> >>>> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that it's >>>> tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost always >>>> walks >>>> out with someone else's cane haha >>>> On May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >>>> > putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose it >>>> > by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the process of >>>> > doing that so finding my table or corner again without a cane can be >>>> > kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, I tend to be a >>>> > better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident one. :) >>>> > I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't remember >>>> > if >>>> > I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or somewhere else >>>> > where I didn't know many people then I think I would keep it on, but >>>> > I >>>> > would probably prefer to carry a small purse that might not be big >>>> > enough for the cane. I've actually had the most cane trouble at >>>> > dances >>>> > with other blind people, because everybody has a cane and there >>>> > aren't >>>> > many folks to keep an eye on your cane for you. I suppose the purse >>>> > or >>>> > cane holster might be the best solution, unless there are good sound >>>> > cues in the venue and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to >>>> > navigate without a cane. >>>> > Arielle >>>> > >>>> > On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> >> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>>> >> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only >>>> >> played >>>> >> rap music. >>>> >> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>>> >> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >> ________________________________________ >>>> >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >>>> >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>>> >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>> >> >>>> >> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >>>> >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread >>>> >>> before >>>> >>> me has been male? >>>> >>> Arielle >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> >>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I >>>> >>>> suppose >>>> >>>> that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really care about >>>> >>>> looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have it easier, I >>>> >>>> guess. :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> >>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>>> >>>>> anything >>>> >>>>> that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? Just >>>> >>>>> thinking >>>> >>>>> about it is kind of hilarious! >>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> >>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>> >>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a >>>> >>>>>> belt >>>> >>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for >>>> >>>>>> telescopic >>>> >>>>>> canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but I >>>> >>>>>> suppose >>>> >>>>>> it's >>>> >>>>>> an option. >>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>> >>>>>> Kirt >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had >>>> >>>>>>> bar >>>> >>>>>>> and >>>> >>>>>>> bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that happen >>>> >>>>>>> at >>>> >>>>>>> age >>>> >>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>> >>>>>>> mitzvahs, >>>> >>>>>>> so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially looking >>>> >>>>>>> stupid >>>> >>>>>>> at >>>> >>>>>>> quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people taught me how to >>>> >>>>>>> dance, >>>> >>>>>>> though I can't remember who and honestly, by now I've forgotten >>>> >>>>>>> most >>>> >>>>>>> of my formal instruction. I do remember being told that dancing >>>> >>>>>>> is >>>> >>>>>>> mainly about having fun and just moving your body to the beat >>>> >>>>>>> of >>>> >>>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>>> music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always had fun >>>> >>>>>>> and >>>> >>>>>>> nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with >>>> >>>>>>> me >>>> >>>>>>> on >>>> >>>>>>> the dance floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you >>>> >>>>>>> need >>>> >>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>> worry too much about how you appear to others. If the group is >>>> >>>>>>> doing >>>> >>>>>>> a >>>> >>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>> >>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or >>>> >>>>>>> just >>>> >>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink >>>> >>>>>>> or >>>> >>>>>>> snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some >>>> >>>>>>> things, >>>> >>>>>>> you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of dancing >>>> >>>>>>> experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and tell >>>> >>>>>>> you >>>> >>>>>>> what's good and what you could change or improve on. Also, slow >>>> >>>>>>> dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to follow the >>>> >>>>>>> man, >>>> >>>>>>> but >>>> >>>>>>> if you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women >>>> >>>>>>> you >>>> >>>>>>> may >>>> >>>>>>> want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>> >>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my >>>> >>>>>>> cane >>>> >>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a >>>> >>>>>>> sighted >>>> >>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I >>>> >>>>>>> danced. >>>> >>>>>>> Now >>>> >>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and >>>> >>>>>>> I'd >>>> >>>>>>> like >>>> >>>>>>> to be able to keep track of my cane myself without having it on >>>> >>>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>>> dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event I usually am >>>> >>>>>>> not >>>> >>>>>>> wearing clothes that allow for storage of a telescoping cane, >>>> >>>>>>> unless >>>> >>>>>>> I >>>> >>>>>>> bring a purse and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose >>>> >>>>>>> is >>>> >>>>>>> an >>>> >>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage >>>> >>>>>>> this >>>> >>>>>>> issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound landmark >>>> >>>>>>> of >>>> >>>>>>> some >>>> >>>>>>> sort like the bar or music stand and put my cane in a corner >>>> >>>>>>> near >>>> >>>>>>> that >>>> >>>>>>> spot. But this doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>> >>>>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance >>>> >>>>>>>> a >>>> >>>>>>>> little, >>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>> >>>>>>>> is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body for you at >>>> >>>>>>>> first >>>> >>>>>>>> so >>>> >>>>>>>> you >>>> >>>>>>>> can get the movement. In japah, that is how the black belts >>>> >>>>>>>> teach >>>> >>>>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>>>> white >>>> >>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if you >>>> >>>>>>>> don't >>>> >>>>>>>> drink, >>>> >>>>>>>> then that is fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can >>>> >>>>>>>> do >>>> >>>>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>>>> same >>>> >>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same >>>> >>>>>>>> way. >>>> >>>>>>>> If >>>> >>>>>>>> you >>>> >>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>> >>>>>>>> methods >>>> >>>>>>>> will >>>> >>>>>>>> work just fine. You just got to mix and match my man. Mix >>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>> >>>>>>>> match. >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>> >>>>>>>> Smith >>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>> >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>> >>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>> >>>>>>>> partake >>>> >>>>>>>> in >>>> >>>>>>>> alcoholic beverages? >>>> >>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just >>>> >>>>>>>> curious >>>> >>>>>>>> as >>>> >>>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>> other >>>> >>>>>>>> ways you might go about it? >>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>> >>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>> >>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to >>>> >>>>>>>>> dance. >>>> >>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>> >>>>>>>>> possible; >>>> >>>>>>>>> however, there are just times in social situations where you >>>> >>>>>>>>> just >>>> >>>>>>>>> have >>>> >>>>>>>>> to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just move your hips >>>> >>>>>>>>> and >>>> >>>>>>>>> try >>>> >>>>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>>> keep up with the beat. There are a lot of other people out >>>> >>>>>>>>> there >>>> >>>>>>>>> with >>>> >>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If you >>>> >>>>>>>>> drink, >>>> >>>>>>>>> it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't make you better, >>>> >>>>>>>>> you >>>> >>>>>>>>> jus >>>> >>>>>>>>> think you are. Smile just a little even if you don't like >>>> >>>>>>>>> dancing, >>>> >>>>>>>>> or >>>> >>>>>>>>> aren't very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or >>>> >>>>>>>>> hopefully >>>> >>>>>>>>> you >>>> >>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you >>>> >>>>>>>>> are >>>> >>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't >>>> >>>>>>>>> care. >>>> >>>>>>>>> It >>>> >>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I >>>> >>>>>>>>> have >>>> >>>>>>>>> learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the >>>> >>>>>>>>> dance >>>> >>>>>>>>> floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go out >>>> >>>>>>>>> with >>>> >>>>>>>>> a >>>> >>>>>>>>> group of people because I am using trips to the bar as an >>>> >>>>>>>>> excuse >>>> >>>>>>>>> not >>>> >>>>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl >>>> >>>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>> teach >>>> >>>>>>>> you. >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>> >>>>>>>>> Smith >>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>> >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>>> >>>>>>>>> curious >>>> >>>>>>>>> about how you all go about attending social functions where >>>> >>>>>>>>> dancing >>>> >>>>>>>>> is >>>> >>>>>>>>> a part of the atmosphere? >>>> >>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know >>>> >>>>>>>>> how to >>>> >>>>>>>>> dance? >>>> >>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>> >>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do >>>> >>>>>>>>> what >>>> >>>>>>>>> a >>>> >>>>>>>>> lot >>>> >>>>>>>>> of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >>>>>>>>> info >>>> >>>>>>>>> for >>>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>> >>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>> >>>>>>>>> .com >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >>>>>>>>> info >>>> >>>>>>>>> for >>>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>> >>>>>>>>> com >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >>>>>>>> info >>>> >>>>>>>> for >>>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> >>>>>>>> .com >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >>>>>>>> info >>>> >>>>>>>> for >>>> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >>>>>>> info >>>> >>>>>>> for >>>> >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >>>>>> info >>>> >>>>>> for >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>>>> for >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>>> for >>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >> for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >> for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, > Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, > and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." — Maya Angelou From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue May 14 14:13:42 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:13:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Working around internet access on college campuses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They addressed it, what they did just didn't work. On Monday, May 13, 2013, Darian Smith wrote: > Hi Kaiti, > So am I right in understanding that the IT folks on campus tried to > address this, but met it with no success? or they never addressed it? > > Best, > Darian > On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 AM, Kaiti Shelton > > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Last year I was not able to use the wireless on my BrailleSense while > > at school. My university network requires that computers use the > > Cisco Nac Agent to log into the network. They do keep a list or > > database or something of the access keys for things like XBox360 > > systems that wouldn't be able to log on using the Nac Agent and I > > asked that my BrailleSense be added to this list. After it still > > didn't work I checked with the IT people, even had them read back the > > access key to me over the phone so I know it's there, but my > > BrailleSense was still not able to connect to the internet. > > > > It's not a huge deal because like last year I'll probably have my > > laptop with me all the time this year, and could use Safari on my > > IPhone if I don't and need to look something up in a pinch, but it > > would nice to not have to get the laptop out all the time or take it > > to every class when the much-smaller BrailleSense could do the job. > > I'm curious if anyone else has worked around this with their > > university. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Kaiti > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 14:23:36 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 07:23:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Can dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE408@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE408@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: Wasif, fair points. could it not be equally true that there are folks with vision that can't dance? and it's probably important to know certain dances more than to know how to dance to every song a DJ plays. I would probably venture to say that it's impossible to do it any other way. thoughts? On May 14, 2013, at 7:02 AM, "Wasif, Zunaira" wrote: > My opinion is a little different on this one. I think its really > important to dance correctly. Even little things can make you look > awkward. Maybe I'm a little perfectionistic in this area, but there are > a lot of very subtle moves involved in dancing. If it doesn't come > naturally to you, you need to really work on it. I've seen a lot of > visually impaired people that have no idea what's going on. On the > other hand, I've seen a lot of people that are doing just fine. > > Zunaira > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 11:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > I really want to hear from more women about whether the purse-cane stash > is a viable option. > Arielle > > On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: >> true, >> In some cases though, I feel like you are going to have to get > someone >> with vision to show you some dances like "Gangnam style" or Douggie" >> It's not critical if you don't know, but is always helpful If the >> song comes on and you want to dance to it (darn catchy songs)., On >> May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I've been to quite a few dancing functions, (wedding receptions, >>> homecomings and prom, formals and semiformals at my university, etc). >>> I think as long as you're moving to the beat and you're having a good > >>> time it's not a huge deal. A lot of the time the other people around > >>> you will be so caught up in their own dancing or socializing that >>> they won't really take much notice if you're doing something slightly > >>> unconventional. When in doubt you could always step from side to >>> side and just get your shoulders into it. For guys leading a slow >>> dance mainly involves putting your hands on the girl's waist or >>> shoulders, (whichever she's comfortable with), and just swaying as >>> you step in a circle. It can be a little awkward the first time you >>> do it, but it is for most guys from what I've seen. >>> >>> Guys have the advantage of having deep pockets. When I went to prom >>> my boyfriend had a straight cane and I had a folding one, so we left >>> his at our table and I lead with him holding onto my elbow until we >>> got to the dance floor, then I folded up and he put the cane in his >>> tux pocket. At the last formal we went to I had a telescopic cane >>> and a purse which handily enough had metal rings between the top of >>> the purse and the ends of the straps. I was able to slide the cane >>> through the loops and because the rings were the right size it was a >>> pretty secure fit. It was kind of annoying wearing the purse after a > >>> while though, and I think I eventually just put it on the table with >>> my coat and went without it. I strategically chose my table, so it >>> wasn't really an issue of knowing where to go to find it when I >>> needed to during the dance. >>> >>> I've been trying to figure out better ways to go about stowing the >>> cane myself, especially when wearing formalwear like a prom dress as >>> opposed to just a nicer homecoming-style one. I like taking smaller >>> canes that fold up or telescope for situations like this, so I >>> probably won't ever bring a straight cane to something like this and >>> save eit for more day-to-day use. I think just finding n easily >>> locatable spot is key not just for your cane, but so you can find all > >>> your other stuff when your done dancing. >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Darian Smith wrote: >>>> Yes that does sound pretty funny, now that you mention it, Arielle. > >>>> But it's not like guys (not many of them at least), rock a purse >>>> so... hahahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:12 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>>>> anything that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a dress? >>>>> Just thinking about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a belt >>>>>> loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere for >>>>>> telescopic canes? I think they look kind of silly, personally but > >>>>>> I suppose it's an option. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all had bar > >>>>>>> and bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of coming-of-age that >>>>>>> happen at age >>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>>> mitzvahs, so I became comfortable with dancing and potentially >>>>>>> looking stupid at quite a young age. :) I'm sure some people >>>>>>> taught me how to dance, though I can't remember who and honestly, > >>>>>>> by now I've forgotten most of my formal instruction. I do >>>>>>> remember being told that dancing is mainly about having fun and >>>>>>> just moving your body to the beat of the music. I'm sure I don't >>>>>>> dance perfectly but I've always had fun and nobody has ever >>>>>>> criticized my dancing or not wanted to be with me on the dance >>>>>>> floor because of my dancing. So I don't think you need to worry >>>>>>> too much about how you appear to others. If the group is doing a >>>>>>> line dance like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or just >>>>>>> moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get a drink >>>>>>> or snack or whatever, during that song. If you want to learn some > >>>>>>> things, you could ask a friend or family member who has lots of >>>>>>> dancing experience to teach you or just to watch your moves and >>>>>>> tell you what's good and what you could change or improve on. >>>>>>> Also, slow dancing is easy for girls who are just supposed to >>>>>>> follow the man, but if you're a guy and want to learn how to >>>>>>> slow-dance with women you may want to get a little bit of formal >>>>>>> instruction. >>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my cane > >>>>>>> while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with a sighted >>>>>>> friend and stash my cane at a table while my friend and I danced. > >>>>>>> Now I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night and > >>>>>>> I'd like to be able to keep track of my cane myself without >>>>>>> having it on the dance floor with me. If I go to a dancing event >>>>>>> I usually am not wearing clothes that allow for storage of a >>>>>>> telescoping cane, unless I bring a purse and keep it on me while >>>>>>> dancing, which I suppose is an option. I'm curious if others have > >>>>>>> found good ways to manage this issue. The best solution I've used > >>>>>>> is to find a sound landmark of some sort like the bar or music >>>>>>> stand and put my cane in a corner near that spot. But this >>>>>>> doesn't work as well in large venues. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can dance a > >>>>>>>> little, and is a good teacher. Tell him to move you your body >>>>>>>> for you at first so you can get the movement. In japah, that is > >>>>>>>> how the black belts teach the white belts. That is how my >>>>>>>> instructor instructs me. Also, if you don't drink, then that is > >>>>>>>> fine too. That is just a trick I use. You can do the same >>>>>>>> thing with a cup of water, or a soda; it should work the same > way. >>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the other >>>>>>>> methods will work just fine. You just got to mix and match my >>>>>>>> man. Mix and match. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Darian Smith >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>> partake in alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just curious >>>>>>>> as to other ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not to > dance. >>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>> possible; however, there are just times in social situations >>>>>>>>> where you just have to shake a leg. Do the best you can. Just > >>>>>>>>> move your hips and try to keep up with the beat. There are a >>>>>>>>> lot of other people out there with you who can't dance either. > >>>>>>>>> They also look terrible. If you drink, it loosen's you up just > >>>>>>>>> a little. It doen't make you better, you jus think you are. >>>>>>>>> Smile just a little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't >>>>>>>>> very good at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you > >>>>>>>>> are actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you are > >>>>>>>>> confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you don't care. > >>>>>>>>> It helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept I > >>>>>>>>> have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off of the > >>>>>>>>> dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like that if I go >>>>>>>>> out with a group of people because I am using trips to the bar >>>>>>>>> as an excuse not to >>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a girl >>>>>>>> to teach you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Darian Smith >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>>>>>>>> curious about how you all go about attending social functions >>>>>>>>> where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't know >>>>>>>>> how to dance? >>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do what > >>>>>>>>> a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the internet? >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.will >>>>>>>>> iams2%4 >>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willi >>>>>>>> ams2%40gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40 >>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >>>>>>> e%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gma >>>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10 >>>> 4%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail >>> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Tue May 14 14:33:22 2013 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:33:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can dance if I want to? Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE40A@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Its Summer! More dancing and less accademics! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:16 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? So I guess the main takeaways are... 1. If you want to learn how to dance, it is best to get a friend or family member to teach you. 2 It's probably better to use a collapsable/telescoping cane, especially in larger dance halls. 3. Confidence (as in many aspects in life) is key; even if it's liquid courage *smile* (don't worry under-agers, confidence is much better than the alternative because you'll feel better in the morning hahaha) 4. ladies, it's all in the purse (where would we be without you, Julie? *smile*). 5. ladies: feel free to use your date as a cane storer( ... if it works... I'm starting to get the idea that the ladies have a easier time here than the fellas). 6. Cane holders may or not be an option ( experimentation is probably where it's at on this one, again, unless your date doubles as a cane storer *smile*) 7. It's all about country music... no, it's all about rap... nope, all about having fun, so just go with it! does that just about cover it? yay for NABS! now back to the academic stuff. ) . On May 13, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi all, I don't go to these types of functions a lot if I can help > it... But I used to go to formals when I was in high school. Back > then I went with a group of friends. We all had a pact that we would > never leave one of our group alone. It wasn't about me being blind or > anything; we just didn't want to lose each other. > > Of course, that isn't practical now that I'm older. But I don't > think I would ever set my cane aside in a corner or against a wall at > a dance party. There are too many people. It is very easy to lose > your friends or whoever you are with. Dances are also kind of > disorienting to me because of the noise and the crowds, so I would > feel nervous without my cane to help me get out. For the women, I > would suggest getting a purse. You can get a light wait one that > hangs over your shoulder and in front of you. Just make it as light > as you can to help you dance, but make sure it's big enough for a > cane. There are all types of purses. If your outfit is dark, you can > match a black one, and if you're wearing a brighter colored dress, > then go with something silver. Having a matching dress and shoes is > always a good way to go. You don't even need a heavy leather purse. > A light, cloth one will do. It also depends on your dress too and how > formal the event is. To be honest, I would feel safer keeping a purse > on me as a blind person because I would hate to misplace something > like that at a dance and be unable to find it again. Also, girls, a > purse is a great place to store the heals when you get tired of them. > > As for the dancing, I don't know since I avoid it whenever possible. > I'd rather talk to people and listen to music I actually like. The > club type music isn't really my thing either. But it's easy enough to > learn standard dances from a trusted friend or family member. My > friends taught me and/or led me through all those dances in high > school. But I'd still rather not dance at all. :) > > On 5/13/13, Kirt wrote: >> Carly, >> I'm not offended at all, so don't even worry about it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 13, 2013, at 10:38 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >>> A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) CarAt 07:13 PM >>> 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >>>> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >>>> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone >>>> succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had >>>> something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into >>>> cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* >>>> >>>> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that >>>> it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost >>>> always walks out with someone else's cane haha On May 13, 2013, at >>>> 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >>>>> putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose >>>>> it by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the >>>>> process of doing that so finding my table or corner again without >>>>> a cane can be kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, >>>>> I tend to be a better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident >>>>> one. :) I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't >>>>> remember if I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or >>>>> somewhere else where I didn't know many people then I think I >>>>> would keep it on, but I would probably prefer to carry a small >>>>> purse that might not be big enough for the cane. I've actually had >>>>> the most cane trouble at dances with other blind people, because >>>>> everybody has a cane and there aren't many folks to keep an eye on >>>>> your cane for you. I suppose the purse or cane holster might be >>>>> the best solution, unless there are good sound cues in the venue >>>>> and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to navigate without a cane. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>>>>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that >>>>>> only played rap music. >>>>>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian >>>>>> Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>> >>>>>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread >>>>>>> before me has been male? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I >>>>>>>> suppose that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really >>>>>>>> care about looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have >>>>>>>> it easier, I guess. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>>>>>>>> anything that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a >>>>>>>>> dress? Just thinking about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a >>>>>>>>>> belt loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere >>>>>>>>>> for telescopic canes? I think they look kind of silly, >>>>>>>>>> personally but I suppose it's an option. >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all >>>>>>>>>>> had bar and bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of >>>>>>>>>>> coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>>>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>>>>>>> mitzvahs, so I became comfortable with dancing and >>>>>>>>>>> potentially looking stupid at quite a young age. :) I'm sure >>>>>>>>>>> some people taught me how to dance, though I can't remember >>>>>>>>>>> who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most of my formal >>>>>>>>>>> instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is mainly >>>>>>>>>>> about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >>>>>>>>>>> the music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always >>>>>>>>>>> had fun and nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not >>>>>>>>>>> wanted to be with me on the dance floor because of my >>>>>>>>>>> dancing. So I don't think you need to worry too much about >>>>>>>>>>> how you appear to others. If the group is doing a line dance >>>>>>>>>>> like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or >>>>>>>>>>> just moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get >>>>>>>>>>> a drink or snack or whatever, during that song. If you want >>>>>>>>>>> to learn some things, you could ask a friend or family >>>>>>>>>>> member who has lots of dancing experience to teach you or >>>>>>>>>>> just to watch your moves and tell you what's good and what >>>>>>>>>>> you could change or improve on. Also, slow dancing is easy >>>>>>>>>>> for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but if >>>>>>>>>>> you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women >>>>>>>>>>> you may want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my >>>>>>>>>>> cane while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with >>>>>>>>>>> a sighted friend and stash my cane at a table while my >>>>>>>>>>> friend and I danced. >>>>>>>>>>> Now >>>>>>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night >>>>>>>>>>> and I'd like to be able to keep track of my cane myself >>>>>>>>>>> without having it on the dance floor with me. If I go to a >>>>>>>>>>> dancing event I usually am not wearing clothes that allow >>>>>>>>>>> for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I bring a purse >>>>>>>>>>> and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage >>>>>>>>>>> this issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound >>>>>>>>>>> landmark of some sort like the bar or music stand and put my >>>>>>>>>>> cane in a corner near that spot. But this doesn't work as >>>>>>>>>>> well in large venues. >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can >>>>>>>>>>>> dance a little, and is a good teacher. Tell him to move >>>>>>>>>>>> you your body for you at first so you can get the movement. >>>>>>>>>>>> In japah, that is how the black belts teach the white >>>>>>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if >>>>>>>>>>>> you don't drink, then that is fine too. That is just a >>>>>>>>>>>> trick I use. You can do the same thing with a cup of >>>>>>>>>>>> water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the >>>>>>>>>>>> other methods will work just fine. You just got to mix and >>>>>>>>>>>> match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>>>>>> partake in alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just >>>>>>>>>>>> curious as to other ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not >>>>>>>>>>>>> to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>>>>>> possible; however, there are just times in social >>>>>>>>>>>>> situations where you just have to shake a leg. Do the >>>>>>>>>>>>> best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>>>>>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If >>>>>>>>>>>>> you drink, it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't >>>>>>>>>>>>> make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just a >>>>>>>>>>>>> little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good >>>>>>>>>>>>> at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you >>>>>>>>>>>>> are confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't care. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like >>>>>>>>>>>>> that if I go out with a group of people because I am using >>>>>>>>>>>>> trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>>>>>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a >>>>>>>>>>>> girl to teach you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>>>>>>>>>>>> curious about how you all go about attending social >>>>>>>>>>>>> functions where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> know how to dance? >>>>>>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do >>>>>>>>>>>>> what a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the >>>>>>>>>>>>> internet? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin >>>>>>>>>>>>> .williams2%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin. >>>>>>>>>>>> williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle >>>>>>>>>>>> 71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>>>>>>>>>> zydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazy >>>>>>>>> dude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40 >>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comc >>>> ast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>> 0gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail >> .com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri > Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the > Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only > Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have > eternal life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. > com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 14:36:38 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 07:36:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] texting on the iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1B44B465-5ABA-4543-9FDC-9579FA6FB171@gmail.com> Hi Patrick, I too have an iPhone and I do like it a lot. using the touchscreen is definitely something that takes some getting used to, but I would honestly sit down for an hour or so or for however long it takes and get myself used to navigating and texting. Dictation is an option for you if you get anything after the 4 because the 4S and 5 have dictation built in. That said, i personally would get to know how to access stuff you want to use manually and slowly you will gain more confidence in it, enough that you'll want to venture out and use more of your phone. i agree that it is a worthwhile investment. one more thing; look into options for insurance for your phone. If there is adoption with your carrier to buy insurance through them, I would go ahead and get it through them rather than Apple. You basically get the same coverage except for your carrier might cover lost/stolen devices where apple will not. Hope that helps, Darian On May 12, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Daniel Romero wrote: > Patrick, you can use dictation, you can get a bluetooth keyboard, > there's also a couple of other solutions. First is a tactile screen > protector from a company named SpeedDots. They have two styles. One > where it has dots located on the function buttons you would be using > the most, and dots on the F, and J keys on the screen. Or, another one > for beginners where there is a dot located on every single letter so > that you can get familiar with the location of the letters, and learn > the spacing. So that once you get better, you can take it off and > you'll be quicker. There are two typing modes on the iPhone. One is > the standerd typing which is when you find the letter you want, and > you double tap, or the touch typing where you find the letter with > your finger, and lift your finger then the letter will be entered. > There's also an app called, 'flexy' which allows you to type freely > where you think the letters are located, and will recognize and will > give you options of words to choose from in the event you don't get > the typing anywhere close. > > http://speeddots.com/ > > That is the URL to the page where you can purchase the tactile screen > protector of choice. > > I hope this helped! Glad you're getting the iPhone. It's a great investment. > > On 5/12/13, Patrick Molloy wrote: >> Hi List, >> So I'm going to be getting an iPhone soon, and everything about it >> seems good to me. However, I am curious about how people handle >> sending text messages. I know some people buy a Bluetooth keyboard, >> but what are some other ways that you can text using the touch screen? >> Thanks, Patrick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C. Romero > Bergen Community College '14 > Host, imager, and producer, The Dan ShowLive > Cell: 973-842-1600 > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/djdan567 > Twitter: @Djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue May 14 14:48:20 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 07:48:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Working around internet access on college campuses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hmm… What I am wondering then is, if it's a software issue with the note taker. I used to have connectivity issues with my Braillenote. and at that time, it was a software thing. On May 14, 2013, at 7:13 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > They addressed it, what they did just didn't work. > > On Monday, May 13, 2013, Darian Smith wrote: > >> Hi Kaiti, >> So am I right in understanding that the IT folks on campus tried to >> address this, but met it with no success? or they never addressed it? >> >> Best, >> Darian >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 AM, Kaiti Shelton > >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Last year I was not able to use the wireless on my BrailleSense while >>> at school. My university network requires that computers use the >>> Cisco Nac Agent to log into the network. They do keep a list or >>> database or something of the access keys for things like XBox360 >>> systems that wouldn't be able to log on using the Nac Agent and I >>> asked that my BrailleSense be added to this list. After it still >>> didn't work I checked with the IT people, even had them read back the >>> access key to me over the phone so I know it's there, but my >>> BrailleSense was still not able to connect to the internet. >>> >>> It's not a huge deal because like last year I'll probably have my >>> laptop with me all the time this year, and could use Safari on my >>> IPhone if I don't and need to look something up in a pinch, but it >>> would nice to not have to get the laptop out all the time or take it >>> to every class when the much-smaller BrailleSense could do the job. >>> I'm curious if anyone else has worked around this with their >>> university. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon May 13 15:37:54 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:37:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <76D0DB68-3C75-4E8E-B286-E4E75058B902@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> <76D0DB68-3C75-4E8E-B286-E4E75058B902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003b01ce4fef$d6cc14c0$84643e40$@gmail.com> Yep, you got it. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:16 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? So I guess the main takeaways are. 1. If you want to learn how to dance, it is best to get a friend or family member to teach you. 2 It's probably better to use a collapsable/telescoping cane, especially in larger dance halls. 3. Confidence (as in many aspects in life) is key; even if it's liquid courage *smile* (don't worry under-agers, confidence is much better than the alternative because you'll feel better in the morning hahaha) 4. ladies, it's all in the purse (where would we be without you, Julie? *smile*). 5. ladies: feel free to use your date as a cane storer( . if it works. I'm starting to get the idea that the ladies have a easier time here than the fellas). 6. Cane holders may or not be an option ( experimentation is probably where it's at on this one, again, unless your date doubles as a cane storer *smile*) 7. It's all about country music. no, it's all about rap. nope, all about having fun, so just go with it! does that just about cover it? yay for NABS! now back to the academic stuff. ) . On May 13, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi all, I don't go to these types of functions a lot if I can help > it... But I used to go to formals when I was in high school. Back > then I went with a group of friends. We all had a pact that we would > never leave one of our group alone. It wasn't about me being blind or > anything; we just didn't want to lose each other. > > Of course, that isn't practical now that I'm older. But I don't > think I would ever set my cane aside in a corner or against a wall at > a dance party. There are too many people. It is very easy to lose > your friends or whoever you are with. Dances are also kind of > disorienting to me because of the noise and the crowds, so I would > feel nervous without my cane to help me get out. For the women, I > would suggest getting a purse. You can get a light wait one that > hangs over your shoulder and in front of you. Just make it as light > as you can to help you dance, but make sure it's big enough for a > cane. There are all types of purses. If your outfit is dark, you can > match a black one, and if you're wearing a brighter colored dress, > then go with something silver. Having a matching dress and shoes is > always a good way to go. You don't even need a heavy leather purse. > A light, cloth one will do. It also depends on your dress too and how > formal the event is. To be honest, I would feel safer keeping a purse > on me as a blind person because I would hate to misplace something > like that at a dance and be unable to find it again. Also, girls, a > purse is a great place to store the heals when you get tired of them. > > As for the dancing, I don't know since I avoid it whenever possible. > I'd rather talk to people and listen to music I actually like. The > club type music isn't really my thing either. But it's easy enough to > learn standard dances from a trusted friend or family member. My > friends taught me and/or led me through all those dances in high > school. But I'd still rather not dance at all. :) > > On 5/13/13, Kirt wrote: >> Carly, >> I'm not offended at all, so don't even worry about it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 13, 2013, at 10:38 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >>> A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) CarAt 07:13 PM >>> 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >>>> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >>>> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone >>>> succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had >>>> something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into >>>> cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* >>>> >>>> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that >>>> it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost >>>> always walks out with someone else's cane haha On May 13, 2013, at >>>> 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >>>>> putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose >>>>> it by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the >>>>> process of doing that so finding my table or corner again without >>>>> a cane can be kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, >>>>> I tend to be a better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident >>>>> one. :) I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't >>>>> remember if I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or >>>>> somewhere else where I didn't know many people then I think I >>>>> would keep it on, but I would probably prefer to carry a small >>>>> purse that might not be big enough for the cane. I've actually had >>>>> the most cane trouble at dances with other blind people, because >>>>> everybody has a cane and there aren't many folks to keep an eye on >>>>> your cane for you. I suppose the purse or cane holster might be >>>>> the best solution, unless there are good sound cues in the venue >>>>> and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to navigate without a cane. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>>>>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that >>>>>> only played rap music. >>>>>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian >>>>>> Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>> >>>>>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread >>>>>>> before me has been male? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I >>>>>>>> suppose that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really >>>>>>>> care about looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have >>>>>>>> it easier, I guess. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>>>>>>>> anything that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a >>>>>>>>> dress? Just thinking about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a >>>>>>>>>> belt loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere >>>>>>>>>> for telescopic canes? I think they look kind of silly, >>>>>>>>>> personally but I suppose it's an option. >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all >>>>>>>>>>> had bar and bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of >>>>>>>>>>> coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>>>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>>>>>>> mitzvahs, so I became comfortable with dancing and >>>>>>>>>>> potentially looking stupid at quite a young age. :) I'm sure >>>>>>>>>>> some people taught me how to dance, though I can't remember >>>>>>>>>>> who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most of my formal >>>>>>>>>>> instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is mainly >>>>>>>>>>> about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >>>>>>>>>>> the music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always >>>>>>>>>>> had fun and nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not >>>>>>>>>>> wanted to be with me on the dance floor because of my >>>>>>>>>>> dancing. So I don't think you need to worry too much about >>>>>>>>>>> how you appear to others. If the group is doing a line dance >>>>>>>>>>> like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or >>>>>>>>>>> just moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get >>>>>>>>>>> a drink or snack or whatever, during that song. If you want >>>>>>>>>>> to learn some things, you could ask a friend or family >>>>>>>>>>> member who has lots of dancing experience to teach you or >>>>>>>>>>> just to watch your moves and tell you what's good and what >>>>>>>>>>> you could change or improve on. Also, slow dancing is easy >>>>>>>>>>> for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but if >>>>>>>>>>> you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women >>>>>>>>>>> you may want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my >>>>>>>>>>> cane while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with >>>>>>>>>>> a sighted friend and stash my cane at a table while my >>>>>>>>>>> friend and I danced. >>>>>>>>>>> Now >>>>>>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night >>>>>>>>>>> and I'd like to be able to keep track of my cane myself >>>>>>>>>>> without having it on the dance floor with me. If I go to a >>>>>>>>>>> dancing event I usually am not wearing clothes that allow >>>>>>>>>>> for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I bring a purse >>>>>>>>>>> and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage >>>>>>>>>>> this issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound >>>>>>>>>>> landmark of some sort like the bar or music stand and put my >>>>>>>>>>> cane in a corner near that spot. But this doesn't work as >>>>>>>>>>> well in large venues. >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can >>>>>>>>>>>> dance a little, and is a good teacher. Tell him to move >>>>>>>>>>>> you your body for you at first so you can get the movement. >>>>>>>>>>>> In japah, that is how the black belts teach the white >>>>>>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if >>>>>>>>>>>> you don't drink, then that is fine too. That is just a >>>>>>>>>>>> trick I use. You can do the same thing with a cup of >>>>>>>>>>>> water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the >>>>>>>>>>>> other methods will work just fine. You just got to mix and >>>>>>>>>>>> match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>>>>>> partake in alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just >>>>>>>>>>>> curious as to other ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not >>>>>>>>>>>>> to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>>>>>> possible; however, there are just times in social >>>>>>>>>>>>> situations where you just have to shake a leg. Do the >>>>>>>>>>>>> best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>>>>>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If >>>>>>>>>>>>> you drink, it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't >>>>>>>>>>>>> make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just a >>>>>>>>>>>>> little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good >>>>>>>>>>>>> at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you >>>>>>>>>>>>> are confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't care. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like >>>>>>>>>>>>> that if I go out with a group of people because I am using >>>>>>>>>>>>> trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>>>>>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a >>>>>>>>>>>> girl to teach you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>>>>>>>>>>>> curious about how you all go about attending social >>>>>>>>>>>>> functions where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> know how to dance? >>>>>>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do >>>>>>>>>>>>> what a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the >>>>>>>>>>>>> internet? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin >>>>>>>>>>>>> .williams2%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin. >>>>>>>>>>>> williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle >>>>>>>>>>>> 71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>>>>>>>>>> zydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazy >>>>>>>>> dude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40 >>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comc >>>> ast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>> 0gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail >> .com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri > Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the > Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only > Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have > eternal life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. > com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue May 14 16:50:08 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:50:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> <76D0DB68-3C75-4E8E-B286-E4E75058B902@gmail.com> <003b01ce4fef$d6cc14c0$84643e40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > On 5/13/13, justin williams wrote: >> Yep, you got it. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith >> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:16 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >> >> So I guess the main takeaways are. >> 1. If you want to learn how to dance, it is best to get a friend or >> family >> member to teach you. >> 2 It's probably better to use a collapsable/telescoping cane, especially >> in >> larger dance halls. >> 3. Confidence (as in many aspects in life) is key; even if it's liquid >> courage *smile* (don't worry under-agers, confidence is much better than >> the >> alternative because you'll feel better in the morning hahaha) 4. ladies, >> it's all in the purse (where would we be without you, Julie? *smile*). >> 5. ladies: feel free to use your date as a cane storer( . if it works. >> I'm >> starting to get the idea that the ladies have a easier time here than >> the >> fellas). >> 6. Cane holders may or not be an option ( experimentation is probably >> where it's at on this one, again, unless your date doubles as a cane >> storer >> *smile*) 7. It's all about country music. no, it's all about rap. nope, >> all >> about having fun, so just go with it! >> does that just about cover it? >> yay for NABS! >> now back to the academic stuff. >> ) >> >> . >> On May 13, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Julie McGinnity >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, I don't go to these types of functions a lot if I can help >>> it... But I used to go to formals when I was in high school. Back >>> then I went with a group of friends. We all had a pact that we would >>> never leave one of our group alone. It wasn't about me being blind or >>> anything; we just didn't want to lose each other. >>> >>> Of course, that isn't practical now that I'm older. But I don't >>> think I would ever set my cane aside in a corner or against a wall at >>> a dance party. There are too many people. It is very easy to lose >>> your friends or whoever you are with. Dances are also kind of >>> disorienting to me because of the noise and the crowds, so I would >>> feel nervous without my cane to help me get out. For the women, I >>> would suggest getting a purse. You can get a light wait one that >>> hangs over your shoulder and in front of you. Just make it as light >>> as you can to help you dance, but make sure it's big enough for a >>> cane. There are all types of purses. If your outfit is dark, you can >>> match a black one, and if you're wearing a brighter colored dress, >>> then go with something silver. Having a matching dress and shoes is >>> always a good way to go. You don't even need a heavy leather purse. >>> A light, cloth one will do. It also depends on your dress too and how >>> formal the event is. To be honest, I would feel safer keeping a purse >>> on me as a blind person because I would hate to misplace something >>> like that at a dance and be unable to find it again. Also, girls, a >>> purse is a great place to store the heals when you get tired of them. >>> >>> As for the dancing, I don't know since I avoid it whenever possible. >>> I'd rather talk to people and listen to music I actually like. The >>> club type music isn't really my thing either. But it's easy enough to >>> learn standard dances from a trusted friend or family member. My >>> friends taught me and/or led me through all those dances in high >>> school. But I'd still rather not dance at all. :) >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Kirt wrote: >>>> Carly, >>>> I'm not offended at all, so don't even worry about it. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 13, 2013, at 10:38 PM, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) CarAt 07:13 PM >>>>> 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >>>>>> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >>>>>> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone >>>>>> succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had >>>>>> something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into >>>>>> cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* >>>>>> >>>>>> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that >>>>>> it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost >>>>>> always walks out with someone else's cane haha On May 13, 2013, at >>>>>> 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >>>>>>> putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose >>>>>>> it by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the >>>>>>> process of doing that so finding my table or corner again without >>>>>>> a cane can be kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, >>>>>>> I tend to be a better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident >>>>>>> one. :) I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't >>>>>>> remember if I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or >>>>>>> somewhere else where I didn't know many people then I think I >>>>>>> would keep it on, but I would probably prefer to carry a small >>>>>>> purse that might not be big enough for the cane. I've actually had >>>>>>> the most cane trouble at dances with other blind people, because >>>>>>> everybody has a cane and there aren't many folks to keep an eye on >>>>>>> your cane for you. I suppose the purse or cane holster might be >>>>>>> the best solution, unless there are good sound cues in the venue >>>>>>> and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to navigate without a >> cane. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>>>>>>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that >>>>>>>> only played rap music. >>>>>>>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian >>>>>>>> Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread >>>>>>>>> before me has been male? >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I >>>>>>>>>> suppose that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really >>>>>>>>>> care about looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have >>>>>>>>>> it easier, I guess. :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>>>>>>>>>> anything that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a >>>>>>>>>>> dress? Just thinking about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>>>>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a >>>>>>>>>>>> belt loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere >>>>>>>>>>>> for telescopic canes? I think they look kind of silly, >>>>>>>>>>>> personally but I suppose it's an option. >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all >>>>>>>>>>>>> had bar and bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of >>>>>>>>>>>>> coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>>>>>>>>> mitzvahs, so I became comfortable with dancing and >>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially looking stupid at quite a young age. :) I'm sure >>>>>>>>>>>>> some people taught me how to dance, though I can't remember >>>>>>>>>>>>> who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most of my formal >>>>>>>>>>>>> instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is mainly >>>>>>>>>>>>> about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always >>>>>>>>>>>>> had fun and nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not >>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to be with me on the dance floor because of my >>>>>>>>>>>>> dancing. So I don't think you need to worry too much about >>>>>>>>>>>>> how you appear to others. If the group is doing a line dance >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>>>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or >>>>>>>>>>>>> just moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get >>>>>>>>>>>>> a drink or snack or whatever, during that song. If you want >>>>>>>>>>>>> to learn some things, you could ask a friend or family >>>>>>>>>>>>> member who has lots of dancing experience to teach you or >>>>>>>>>>>>> just to watch your moves and tell you what's good and what >>>>>>>>>>>>> you could change or improve on. Also, slow dancing is easy >>>>>>>>>>>>> for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but if >>>>>>>>>>>>> you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women >>>>>>>>>>>>> you may want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my >>>>>>>>>>>>> cane while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with >>>>>>>>>>>>> a sighted friend and stash my cane at a table while my >>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and I danced. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Now >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night >>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'd like to be able to keep track of my cane myself >>>>>>>>>>>>> without having it on the dance floor with me. If I go to a >>>>>>>>>>>>> dancing event I usually am not wearing clothes that allow >>>>>>>>>>>>> for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I bring a purse >>>>>>>>>>>>> and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>>>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage >>>>>>>>>>>>> this issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound >>>>>>>>>>>>> landmark of some sort like the bar or music stand and put my >>>>>>>>>>>>> cane in a corner near that spot. But this doesn't work as >>>>>>>>>>>>> well in large venues. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dance a little, and is a good teacher. Tell him to move >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you your body for you at first so you can get the movement. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In japah, that is how the black belts teach the white >>>>>>>>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you don't drink, then that is fine too. That is just a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick I use. You can do the same thing with a cup of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> other methods will work just fine. You just got to mix and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> partake in alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> curious as to other ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible; however, there are just times in social >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situations where you just have to shake a leg. Do the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you drink, it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't care. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that if I go out with a group of people because I am using >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> girl to teach you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> curious about how you all go about attending social >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> functions where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how to dance? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> internet? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .williams2%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>>>>>>>>>>>> zydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazy >>>>>>>>>>> dude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%4 >>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40 >>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>>>> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comc >>>>>> ast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri >>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the >>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only >>> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have >>> eternal life." >>> John 3:16 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue May 14 16:50:03 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:50:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <003b01ce4fef$d6cc14c0$84643e40$@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> <76D0DB68-3C75-4E8E-B286-E4E75058B902@gmail.com> <003b01ce4fef$d6cc14c0$84643e40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/13/13, justin williams wrote: > Yep, you got it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:16 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? > > So I guess the main takeaways are. > 1. If you want to learn how to dance, it is best to get a friend or family > member to teach you. > 2 It's probably better to use a collapsable/telescoping cane, especially > in > larger dance halls. > 3. Confidence (as in many aspects in life) is key; even if it's liquid > courage *smile* (don't worry under-agers, confidence is much better than > the > alternative because you'll feel better in the morning hahaha) 4. ladies, > it's all in the purse (where would we be without you, Julie? *smile*). > 5. ladies: feel free to use your date as a cane storer( . if it works. > I'm > starting to get the idea that the ladies have a easier time here than the > fellas). > 6. Cane holders may or not be an option ( experimentation is probably > where it's at on this one, again, unless your date doubles as a cane storer > *smile*) 7. It's all about country music. no, it's all about rap. nope, > all > about having fun, so just go with it! > does that just about cover it? > yay for NABS! > now back to the academic stuff. > ) > > . > On May 13, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Julie McGinnity wrote: > >> Hi all, I don't go to these types of functions a lot if I can help >> it... But I used to go to formals when I was in high school. Back >> then I went with a group of friends. We all had a pact that we would >> never leave one of our group alone. It wasn't about me being blind or >> anything; we just didn't want to lose each other. >> >> Of course, that isn't practical now that I'm older. But I don't >> think I would ever set my cane aside in a corner or against a wall at >> a dance party. There are too many people. It is very easy to lose >> your friends or whoever you are with. Dances are also kind of >> disorienting to me because of the noise and the crowds, so I would >> feel nervous without my cane to help me get out. For the women, I >> would suggest getting a purse. You can get a light wait one that >> hangs over your shoulder and in front of you. Just make it as light >> as you can to help you dance, but make sure it's big enough for a >> cane. There are all types of purses. If your outfit is dark, you can >> match a black one, and if you're wearing a brighter colored dress, >> then go with something silver. Having a matching dress and shoes is >> always a good way to go. You don't even need a heavy leather purse. >> A light, cloth one will do. It also depends on your dress too and how >> formal the event is. To be honest, I would feel safer keeping a purse >> on me as a blind person because I would hate to misplace something >> like that at a dance and be unable to find it again. Also, girls, a >> purse is a great place to store the heals when you get tired of them. >> >> As for the dancing, I don't know since I avoid it whenever possible. >> I'd rather talk to people and listen to music I actually like. The >> club type music isn't really my thing either. But it's easy enough to >> learn standard dances from a trusted friend or family member. My >> friends taught me and/or led me through all those dances in high >> school. But I'd still rather not dance at all. :) >> >> On 5/13/13, Kirt wrote: >>> Carly, >>> I'm not offended at all, so don't even worry about it. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 13, 2013, at 10:38 PM, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: >>> >>>> A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) CarAt 07:13 PM >>>> 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >>>>> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >>>>> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone >>>>> succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had >>>>> something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into >>>>> cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* >>>>> >>>>> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that >>>>> it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost >>>>> always walks out with someone else's cane haha On May 13, 2013, at >>>>> 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >>>>>> putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose >>>>>> it by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the >>>>>> process of doing that so finding my table or corner again without >>>>>> a cane can be kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, >>>>>> I tend to be a better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident >>>>>> one. :) I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't >>>>>> remember if I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or >>>>>> somewhere else where I didn't know many people then I think I >>>>>> would keep it on, but I would probably prefer to carry a small >>>>>> purse that might not be big enough for the cane. I've actually had >>>>>> the most cane trouble at dances with other blind people, because >>>>>> everybody has a cane and there aren't many folks to keep an eye on >>>>>> your cane for you. I suppose the purse or cane holster might be >>>>>> the best solution, unless there are good sound cues in the venue >>>>>> and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to navigate without a > cane. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>>>>>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that >>>>>>> only played rap music. >>>>>>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian >>>>>>> Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread >>>>>>>> before me has been male? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I >>>>>>>>> suppose that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really >>>>>>>>> care about looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have >>>>>>>>> it easier, I guess. :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>>>>>>>>> anything that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a >>>>>>>>>> dress? Just thinking about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>>>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a >>>>>>>>>>> belt loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere >>>>>>>>>>> for telescopic canes? I think they look kind of silly, >>>>>>>>>>> personally but I suppose it's an option. >>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all >>>>>>>>>>>> had bar and bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of >>>>>>>>>>>> coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>>>>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>>>>>>>> mitzvahs, so I became comfortable with dancing and >>>>>>>>>>>> potentially looking stupid at quite a young age. :) I'm sure >>>>>>>>>>>> some people taught me how to dance, though I can't remember >>>>>>>>>>>> who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most of my formal >>>>>>>>>>>> instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is mainly >>>>>>>>>>>> about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >>>>>>>>>>>> the music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always >>>>>>>>>>>> had fun and nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not >>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to be with me on the dance floor because of my >>>>>>>>>>>> dancing. So I don't think you need to worry too much about >>>>>>>>>>>> how you appear to others. If the group is doing a line dance >>>>>>>>>>>> like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or >>>>>>>>>>>> just moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get >>>>>>>>>>>> a drink or snack or whatever, during that song. If you want >>>>>>>>>>>> to learn some things, you could ask a friend or family >>>>>>>>>>>> member who has lots of dancing experience to teach you or >>>>>>>>>>>> just to watch your moves and tell you what's good and what >>>>>>>>>>>> you could change or improve on. Also, slow dancing is easy >>>>>>>>>>>> for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but if >>>>>>>>>>>> you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women >>>>>>>>>>>> you may want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my >>>>>>>>>>>> cane while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with >>>>>>>>>>>> a sighted friend and stash my cane at a table while my >>>>>>>>>>>> friend and I danced. >>>>>>>>>>>> Now >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night >>>>>>>>>>>> and I'd like to be able to keep track of my cane myself >>>>>>>>>>>> without having it on the dance floor with me. If I go to a >>>>>>>>>>>> dancing event I usually am not wearing clothes that allow >>>>>>>>>>>> for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I bring a purse >>>>>>>>>>>> and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage >>>>>>>>>>>> this issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound >>>>>>>>>>>> landmark of some sort like the bar or music stand and put my >>>>>>>>>>>> cane in a corner near that spot. But this doesn't work as >>>>>>>>>>>> well in large venues. >>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can >>>>>>>>>>>>> dance a little, and is a good teacher. Tell him to move >>>>>>>>>>>>> you your body for you at first so you can get the movement. >>>>>>>>>>>>> In japah, that is how the black belts teach the white >>>>>>>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if >>>>>>>>>>>>> you don't drink, then that is fine too. That is just a >>>>>>>>>>>>> trick I use. You can do the same thing with a cup of >>>>>>>>>>>>> water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> other methods will work just fine. You just got to mix and >>>>>>>>>>>>> match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>>>>>>> partake in alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just >>>>>>>>>>>>> curious as to other ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible; however, there are just times in social >>>>>>>>>>>>>> situations where you just have to shake a leg. Do the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you drink, it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't care. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that if I go out with a group of people because I am using >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>>>>>>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a >>>>>>>>>>>>> girl to teach you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>> curious about how you all go about attending social >>>>>>>>>>>>>> functions where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how to dance? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> internet? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin >>>>>>>>>>>>>> .williams2%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin. >>>>>>>>>>>>> williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>> 71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>>>>>>>>>>> zydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazy >>>>>>>>>> dude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%4 >>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40 >>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>>> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comc >>>>> ast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail >>> .com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri >> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the >> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only >> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have >> eternal life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >> com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue May 14 16:56:10 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:56:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> <76D0DB68-3C75-4E8E-B286-E4E75058B902@gmail.com> <003b01ce4fef$d6cc14c0$84643e40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: quite the interesting topic. :) Another take away; if you're interested and have the time, taking a dance class, even if only for a few weeks, might be an option. Most universities offer them for credit, and they're a great work out. I took a West Coast Swing class in middle school and I still find myself using some of those moves at formals now, plus it's fun. And Mary is right. The funniest memory I have from last semester was when I was at a sleep over and a few other girls tried to teach me to do moves like the stanky leg so I could propperly dance to Thriftshop. It was hilarious for all of us, and I got a new move out of it. On 5/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > On 5/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> On 5/13/13, justin williams wrote: >>> Yep, you got it. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>> Smith >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:16 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >>> So I guess the main takeaways are. >>> 1. If you want to learn how to dance, it is best to get a friend or >>> family >>> member to teach you. >>> 2 It's probably better to use a collapsable/telescoping cane, >>> especially >>> in >>> larger dance halls. >>> 3. Confidence (as in many aspects in life) is key; even if it's liquid >>> courage *smile* (don't worry under-agers, confidence is much better than >>> the >>> alternative because you'll feel better in the morning hahaha) 4. >>> ladies, >>> it's all in the purse (where would we be without you, Julie? *smile*). >>> 5. ladies: feel free to use your date as a cane storer( . if it works. >>> I'm >>> starting to get the idea that the ladies have a easier time here than >>> the >>> fellas). >>> 6. Cane holders may or not be an option ( experimentation is probably >>> where it's at on this one, again, unless your date doubles as a cane >>> storer >>> *smile*) 7. It's all about country music. no, it's all about rap. nope, >>> all >>> about having fun, so just go with it! >>> does that just about cover it? >>> yay for NABS! >>> now back to the academic stuff. >>> ) >>> >>> . >>> On May 13, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Julie McGinnity >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, I don't go to these types of functions a lot if I can help >>>> it... But I used to go to formals when I was in high school. Back >>>> then I went with a group of friends. We all had a pact that we would >>>> never leave one of our group alone. It wasn't about me being blind or >>>> anything; we just didn't want to lose each other. >>>> >>>> Of course, that isn't practical now that I'm older. But I don't >>>> think I would ever set my cane aside in a corner or against a wall at >>>> a dance party. There are too many people. It is very easy to lose >>>> your friends or whoever you are with. Dances are also kind of >>>> disorienting to me because of the noise and the crowds, so I would >>>> feel nervous without my cane to help me get out. For the women, I >>>> would suggest getting a purse. You can get a light wait one that >>>> hangs over your shoulder and in front of you. Just make it as light >>>> as you can to help you dance, but make sure it's big enough for a >>>> cane. There are all types of purses. If your outfit is dark, you can >>>> match a black one, and if you're wearing a brighter colored dress, >>>> then go with something silver. Having a matching dress and shoes is >>>> always a good way to go. You don't even need a heavy leather purse. >>>> A light, cloth one will do. It also depends on your dress too and how >>>> formal the event is. To be honest, I would feel safer keeping a purse >>>> on me as a blind person because I would hate to misplace something >>>> like that at a dance and be unable to find it again. Also, girls, a >>>> purse is a great place to store the heals when you get tired of them. >>>> >>>> As for the dancing, I don't know since I avoid it whenever possible. >>>> I'd rather talk to people and listen to music I actually like. The >>>> club type music isn't really my thing either. But it's easy enough to >>>> learn standard dances from a trusted friend or family member. My >>>> friends taught me and/or led me through all those dances in high >>>> school. But I'd still rather not dance at all. :) >>>> >>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt wrote: >>>>> Carly, >>>>> I'm not offended at all, so don't even worry about it. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 10:38 PM, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) CarAt 07:13 PM >>>>>> 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >>>>>>> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >>>>>>> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone >>>>>>> succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had >>>>>>> something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into >>>>>>> cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that >>>>>>> it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost >>>>>>> always walks out with someone else's cane haha On May 13, 2013, at >>>>>>> 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >>>>>>>> putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose >>>>>>>> it by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the >>>>>>>> process of doing that so finding my table or corner again without >>>>>>>> a cane can be kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, >>>>>>>> I tend to be a better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident >>>>>>>> one. :) I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't >>>>>>>> remember if I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or >>>>>>>> somewhere else where I didn't know many people then I think I >>>>>>>> would keep it on, but I would probably prefer to carry a small >>>>>>>> purse that might not be big enough for the cane. I've actually had >>>>>>>> the most cane trouble at dances with other blind people, because >>>>>>>> everybody has a cane and there aren't many folks to keep an eye on >>>>>>>> your cane for you. I suppose the purse or cane holster might be >>>>>>>> the best solution, unless there are good sound cues in the venue >>>>>>>> and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to navigate without a >>> cane. >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>>>>>>>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that >>>>>>>>> only played rap music. >>>>>>>>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian >>>>>>>>> Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, >>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread >>>>>>>>>> before me has been male? >>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I >>>>>>>>>>> suppose that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really >>>>>>>>>>> care about looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have >>>>>>>>>>> it easier, I guess. :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>>>>>>>>>>> anything that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a >>>>>>>>>>>> dress? Just thinking about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a >>>>>>>>>>>>> belt loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere >>>>>>>>>>>>> for telescopic canes? I think they look kind of silly, >>>>>>>>>>>>> personally but I suppose it's an option. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had bar and bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mitzvahs, so I became comfortable with dancing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially looking stupid at quite a young age. :) I'm sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>> some people taught me how to dance, though I can't remember >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most of my formal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is mainly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had fun and nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to be with me on the dance floor because of my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dancing. So I don't think you need to worry too much about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how you appear to others. If the group is doing a line dance >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a drink or snack or whatever, during that song. If you want >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to learn some things, you could ask a friend or family >>>>>>>>>>>>>> member who has lots of dancing experience to teach you or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just to watch your moves and tell you what's good and what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you could change or improve on. Also, slow dancing is easy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you may want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a sighted friend and stash my cane at a table while my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and I danced. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'd like to be able to keep track of my cane myself >>>>>>>>>>>>>> without having it on the dance floor with me. If I go to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dancing event I usually am not wearing clothes that allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I bring a purse >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>> landmark of some sort like the bar or music stand and put my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane in a corner near that spot. But this doesn't work as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> well in large venues. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dance a little, and is a good teacher. Tell him to move >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you your body for you at first so you can get the movement. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In japah, that is how the black belts teach the white >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you don't drink, then that is fine too. That is just a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick I use. You can do the same thing with a cup of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other methods will work just fine. You just got to mix and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partake in alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> curious as to other ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible; however, there are just times in social >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situations where you just have to shake a leg. Do the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you drink, it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't care. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that if I go out with a group of people because I am using >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> girl to teach you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> curious about how you all go about attending social >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> functions where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how to dance? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> internet? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .williams2%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>>>>>>>>>>>>> zydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazy >>>>>>>>>>>> dude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%4 >>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40 >>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>>>>> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comc >>>>>>> ast.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Julie McG >>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri >>>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the >>>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only >>>> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have >>>> eternal life." >>>> John 3:16 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>> com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > > > -- > Kaiti > -- Kaiti From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Tue May 14 21:42:48 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 17:42:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Nontraditional Student to be Featured on Tonight's CBS Evening News In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213130.01f97028@comcast.net> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com><00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com><00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com><24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com><395B45E2-243C-4EE1-A9C1-6C538121EDD9@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213130.01f97028@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello All, Donna Posont has asked me to post this announcement. Donna is studying to be a naturalist at the University of Michigan - Dearborn. She is an active member of the Dearborn Chapter and is a former officer in the NFB of Michigan. She has been developing, as part of her studies, a "Birding By Ear" program for blind children and others. She has received grant funding for her work and has been featured on the Cornell University Web site, the premier birding center in the U.S. Tune in, tonight, to the CBS Evening News at 6:30 pm Eastern for a story on all the great things she is doing. Elizabeth From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed May 15 01:04:36 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 19:04:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] citation question In-Reply-To: <24A1BF2D-9AAD-4476-A4AD-C0B80C791D44@aol.com> References: <24A1BF2D-9AAD-4476-A4AD-C0B80C791D44@aol.com> Message-ID: The citations are APA style. I have cited this statistic before too, but always had to give secondary sources like the NFB website or other articles who have quoted the statistic. I am sending this to a prestigious psychology journal and most of the papers they publish cite only academic sources (not usually organization websites), so I'm hoping to find the original primary source if I can. Best, Arielle On 5/13/13, Bridget Walker wrote: > At the very least you can create a citation without giving an author. It > will be credible because I have used the statistic in a paper. Are your > citations in MLA or APA? > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 13, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Mary Fernandez wrote: > >> Probably Chris Danielsen would know at least where to look. >> >> >> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> No sources are listed on the fact sheet. Does anyone know who at >>> national would be coordinating this information? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>> Hi Arielle , >>>> >>>> Have you tried contacting someone from the national center about this? >>>> It >>>> would seem to me that whoever wrote the factsheet would have the >>>> original >>>> source for this information. Although, I am rather surprised that the >>>> source >>>> >>>> for this information is not listed on the factsheet itself. >>>> >>>> Good luck, >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:52 PM >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> ; "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of >>>> blind >>>> children)" ; >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] citation question >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I'm unsure if any of you know the answer to this, but hoping that you >>>>> could either find the answer for me or send this to someone who would >>>>> know. On the NFB website there is a fact sheet about blindness, which >>>>> states that according to a recent Gallup poll, blindness is the third >>>>> most feared "disease" among Americans, surpassed only by AIDS and >>>>> cancer. I've heard that statistic several times but can't find the >>>>> citation for the actual Gallup poll where this was reported. I'd like >>>>> to include this statistic in an academic article I am writing about >>>>> blindness simulations and it would be great if I could cite the >>>>> original Gallup poll. Could anyone please send me the primary citation >>>>> for this fact, or at least an academic source where this fact is >>>>> stated? Thanks! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them >> feel." >> — >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From jim.hulme at gmail.com Wed May 15 01:30:34 2013 From: jim.hulme at gmail.com (James Hulme) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 21:30:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] citation question In-Reply-To: References: <24A1BF2D-9AAD-4476-A4AD-C0B80C791D44@aol.com> Message-ID: *Type of Entry**Reference List**Reference Citation in Text*Data retrieved from a database (e.g., poll questions and results) *Gallup, C.N.N., U.S.A. Today Poll, February 9-12, 2004*. Poll questions retrieved July 9, 2004, from LexisNexis Academic database. (Gallup, C.N.N., U.S.A., 2004) On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > The citations are APA style. I have cited this statistic before too, > but always had to give secondary sources like the NFB website or other > articles who have quoted the statistic. I am sending this to a > prestigious psychology journal and most of the papers they publish > cite only academic sources (not usually organization websites), so I'm > hoping to find the original primary source if I can. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/13/13, Bridget Walker wrote: > > At the very least you can create a citation without giving an author. It > > will be credible because I have used the statistic in a paper. Are your > > citations in MLA or APA? > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On May 13, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Mary Fernandez > wrote: > > > >> Probably Chris Danielsen would know at least where to look. > >> > >> > >> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>> No sources are listed on the fact sheet. Does anyone know who at > >>> national would be coordinating this information? > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> On 5/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>> Hi Arielle , > >>>> > >>>> Have you tried contacting someone from the national center about this? > >>>> It > >>>> would seem to me that whoever wrote the factsheet would have the > >>>> original > >>>> source for this information. Although, I am rather surprised that the > >>>> source > >>>> > >>>> for this information is not listed on the factsheet itself. > >>>> > >>>> Good luck, > >>>> Elizabeth > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" > >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:52 PM > >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>> ; "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of > >>>> blind > >>>> children)" ; > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] citation question > >>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> I'm unsure if any of you know the answer to this, but hoping that you > >>>>> could either find the answer for me or send this to someone who would > >>>>> know. On the NFB website there is a fact sheet about blindness, which > >>>>> states that according to a recent Gallup poll, blindness is the third > >>>>> most feared "disease" among Americans, surpassed only by AIDS and > >>>>> cancer. I've heard that statistic several times but can't find the > >>>>> citation for the actual Gallup poll where this was reported. I'd like > >>>>> to include this statistic in an academic article I am writing about > >>>>> blindness simulations and it would be great if I could cite the > >>>>> original Gallup poll. Could anyone please send me the primary > citation > >>>>> for this fact, or at least an academic source where this fact is > >>>>> stated? Thanks! > >>>>> Arielle > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Mary Fernandez > >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > >> feel." > >> — > >> Maya Angelou > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jim.hulme%40gmail.com > From jim.hulme at gmail.com Wed May 15 01:33:11 2013 From: jim.hulme at gmail.com (James Hulme) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 21:33:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] citation question In-Reply-To: References: <24A1BF2D-9AAD-4476-A4AD-C0B80C791D44@aol.com> Message-ID: http://www.gallup.com/poll/101884/how-should-cite-gallup-my-work.aspx click the link and follow the rules On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:30 PM, James Hulme wrote: > *Type of Entry* *Reference List**Reference Citation in Text* Data > retrieved from a database (e.g., poll questions and results) > > *Gallup, C.N.N., U.S.A. Today Poll, February 9-12, 2004*. Poll questions > retrieved July 9, 2004, from LexisNexis Academic database. > (Gallup, C.N.N., U.S.A., 2004) > > > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> The citations are APA style. I have cited this statistic before too, >> but always had to give secondary sources like the NFB website or other >> articles who have quoted the statistic. I am sending this to a >> prestigious psychology journal and most of the papers they publish >> cite only academic sources (not usually organization websites), so I'm >> hoping to find the original primary source if I can. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 5/13/13, Bridget Walker wrote: >> > At the very least you can create a citation without giving an author. It >> > will be credible because I have used the statistic in a paper. Are your >> > citations in MLA or APA? >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > >> > On May 13, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Mary Fernandez >> wrote: >> > >> >> Probably Chris Danielsen would know at least where to look. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> No sources are listed on the fact sheet. Does anyone know who at >> >>> national would be coordinating this information? >> >>> Arielle >> >>> >> >>> On 5/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >> >>>> Hi Arielle , >> >>>> >> >>>> Have you tried contacting someone from the national center about >> this? >> >>>> It >> >>>> would seem to me that whoever wrote the factsheet would have the >> >>>> original >> >>>> source for this information. Although, I am rather surprised that the >> >>>> source >> >>>> >> >>>> for this information is not listed on the factsheet itself. >> >>>> >> >>>> Good luck, >> >>>> Elizabeth >> >>>> >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:52 PM >> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>>> ; "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of >> >>>> blind >> >>>> children)" ; >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] citation question >> >>>> >> >>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>> I'm unsure if any of you know the answer to this, but hoping that >> you >> >>>>> could either find the answer for me or send this to someone who >> would >> >>>>> know. On the NFB website there is a fact sheet about blindness, >> which >> >>>>> states that according to a recent Gallup poll, blindness is the >> third >> >>>>> most feared "disease" among Americans, surpassed only by AIDS and >> >>>>> cancer. I've heard that statistic several times but can't find the >> >>>>> citation for the actual Gallup poll where this was reported. I'd >> like >> >>>>> to include this statistic in an academic article I am writing about >> >>>>> blindness simulations and it would be great if I could cite the >> >>>>> original Gallup poll. Could anyone please send me the primary >> citation >> >>>>> for this fact, or at least an academic source where this fact is >> >>>>> stated? Thanks! >> >>>>> Arielle >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Mary Fernandez >> >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them >> >> feel." >> >> — >> >> Maya Angelou >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jim.hulme%40gmail.com >> > > From valandkayla at gmail.com Wed May 15 04:11:48 2013 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 23:11:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] quick question about blackboard Message-ID: <8E270EF2-7CF1-409F-9104-EC99A9541A53@gmail.com> I've heard some inaccessibility issues in regards to blackboard. Does anyone know if it is accessible with apple's voiceover screen reader? thanks From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed May 15 06:55:19 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 23:55:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] quick question about blackboard In-Reply-To: <8E270EF2-7CF1-409F-9104-EC99A9541A53@gmail.com> References: <8E270EF2-7CF1-409F-9104-EC99A9541A53@gmail.com> Message-ID: <41B2FBB6D41B40B1A8396816399DDC82@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I use it with both NVDA and Jaws. I'm sure it is at least a little bit accessible with voice over. I'll try it on my IPhone and let you know, but I'm sure the important links are accessible. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Valerie Gibson Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 9:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] quick question about blackboard I've heard some inaccessibility issues in regards to blackboard. Does anyone know if it is accessible with apple's voiceover screen reader? thanks _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Wed May 15 14:33:43 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 08:33:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] citation question References: Message-ID: arielle and all. the Nfb librarian may know. Blessings, Sincerely, Melissa and Pj Find me on: Twitter melissa5674 facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Fernandez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] citation question Probably Chris Danielsen would know at least where to look. On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > No sources are listed on the fact sheet. Does anyone know who at > national would be coordinating this information? > Arielle > > On 5/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >> Hi Arielle , >> >> Have you tried contacting someone from the national center about this? It >> would seem to me that whoever wrote the factsheet would have the original >> source for this information. Although, I am rather surprised that the >> source >> >> for this information is not listed on the factsheet itself. >> >> Good luck, >> Elizabeth >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:52 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> ; "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind >> children)" ; >> Subject: [nabs-l] citation question >> >>> Hi all, >>> I'm unsure if any of you know the answer to this, but hoping that you >>> could either find the answer for me or send this to someone who would >>> know. On the NFB website there is a fact sheet about blindness, which >>> states that according to a recent Gallup poll, blindness is the third >>> most feared "disease" among Americans, surpassed only by AIDS and >>> cancer. I've heard that statistic several times but can't find the >>> citation for the actual Gallup poll where this was reported. I'd like >>> to include this statistic in an academic article I am writing about >>> blindness simulations and it would be great if I could cite the >>> original Gallup poll. Could anyone please send me the primary citation >>> for this fact, or at least an academic source where this fact is >>> stated? Thanks! >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." — Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Wed May 15 17:12:34 2013 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 13:12:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] quick question about blackboard In-Reply-To: <8E270EF2-7CF1-409F-9104-EC99A9541A53@gmail.com> References: <8E270EF2-7CF1-409F-9104-EC99A9541A53@gmail.com> Message-ID: <567C20EF-23A0-4D6D-9F50-E65D77F540F2@aol.com> Access ability with blackboard is slowly improving with jaws. I use VoiceOver all the time as my primary screen reader for blackboard because I believe it is much easier to navigate. The only problem I had was because I am using an iPad I had to learn where all of the links were visually which was quite confusing. I would say to the new user of blackboard and VoiceOver, have someone explain the layout of the page so you can navigate easier. I hope this helps. Bridget Sent from my iPad On May 15, 2013, at 12:11 AM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > I've heard some inaccessibility issues in regards to blackboard. Does anyone know if it is accessible with apple's voiceover screen reader? thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed May 15 19:41:57 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 15:41:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] quick question about blackboard In-Reply-To: <567C20EF-23A0-4D6D-9F50-E65D77F540F2@aol.com> References: <8E270EF2-7CF1-409F-9104-EC99A9541A53@gmail.com> <567C20EF-23A0-4D6D-9F50-E65D77F540F2@aol.com> Message-ID: <355C1F24-ECFE-4068-B55D-EEDD1226272B@gmail.com> I would like to put in a quick recommendation for the Blackboard Mobile app. If you are using an iPhone or iPad, this app gives you access to many, though not all, of the features of Blackboard. It will send you push notifications when an announcement is posted in one of your classes, and you can check your grades on the app. You can also submit files from Dropbox, post messages to discussions, and view assignments. It says you can also take mobile friendly tests, but I have never tested this. My two cents, Jewel Sent from my iPhone On May 15, 2013, at 1:12 PM, Bridget Walker wrote: > Access ability with blackboard is slowly improving with jaws. > I use VoiceOver all the time as my primary screen reader for blackboard because I believe it is much easier to navigate. > The only problem I had was because I am using an iPad I had to learn where all of the links were visually which was quite confusing. > I would say to the new user of blackboard and VoiceOver, have someone explain the layout of the page so you can navigate easier. > > I hope this helps. > > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 15, 2013, at 12:11 AM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > >> I've heard some inaccessibility issues in regards to blackboard. Does anyone know if it is accessible with apple's voiceover screen reader? thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Wed May 15 19:50:59 2013 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 15:50:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] quick question about blackboard In-Reply-To: <355C1F24-ECFE-4068-B55D-EEDD1226272B@gmail.com> References: <8E270EF2-7CF1-409F-9104-EC99A9541A53@gmail.com> <567C20EF-23A0-4D6D-9F50-E65D77F540F2@aol.com> <355C1F24-ECFE-4068-B55D-EEDD1226272B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <031A0594-5DD0-4810-8A38-C0680BA7AA3F@aol.com> Wow thanks for sharing this. I was hesitant to get the app because I just was not sure but that is pretty much all I need blackboard for give or take some features. Do you know if you would be able to upload assignments? Sent from my iPad On May 15, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Jewel wrote: > I would like to put in a quick recommendation for the Blackboard Mobile app. If you are using an iPhone or iPad, this app gives you access to many, though not all, of the features of Blackboard. It will send you push notifications when an announcement is posted in one of your classes, and you can check your grades on the app. You can also submit files from Dropbox, post messages to discussions, and view assignments. It says you can also take mobile friendly tests, but I have never tested this. > My two cents, > Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 15, 2013, at 1:12 PM, Bridget Walker wrote: > >> Access ability with blackboard is slowly improving with jaws. >> I use VoiceOver all the time as my primary screen reader for blackboard because I believe it is much easier to navigate. >> The only problem I had was because I am using an iPad I had to learn where all of the links were visually which was quite confusing. >> I would say to the new user of blackboard and VoiceOver, have someone explain the layout of the page so you can navigate easier. >> >> I hope this helps. >> >> Bridget >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On May 15, 2013, at 12:11 AM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> >>> I've heard some inaccessibility issues in regards to blackboard. Does anyone know if it is accessible with apple's voiceover screen reader? thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Wed May 15 20:05:13 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 16:05:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] quick question about blackboard In-Reply-To: <355C1F24-ECFE-4068-B55D-EEDD1226272B@gmail.com> References: <8E270EF2-7CF1-409F-9104-EC99A9541A53@gmail.com> <567C20EF-23A0-4D6D-9F50-E65D77F540F2@aol.com> <355C1F24-ECFE-4068-B55D-EEDD1226272B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah but some colleges make you pay for that, like mine. Sent from my iPhone On May 15, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Jewel wrote: > I would like to put in a quick recommendation for the Blackboard Mobile app. If you are using an iPhone or iPad, this app gives you access to many, though not all, of the features of Blackboard. It will send you push notifications when an announcement is posted in one of your classes, and you can check your grades on the app. You can also submit files from Dropbox, post messages to discussions, and view assignments. It says you can also take mobile friendly tests, but I have never tested this. > My two cents, > Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 15, 2013, at 1:12 PM, Bridget Walker wrote: > >> Access ability with blackboard is slowly improving with jaws. >> I use VoiceOver all the time as my primary screen reader for blackboard because I believe it is much easier to navigate. >> The only problem I had was because I am using an iPad I had to learn where all of the links were visually which was quite confusing. >> I would say to the new user of blackboard and VoiceOver, have someone explain the layout of the page so you can navigate easier. >> >> I hope this helps. >> >> Bridget >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On May 15, 2013, at 12:11 AM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> >>> I've heard some inaccessibility issues in regards to blackboard. Does anyone know if it is accessible with apple's voiceover screen reader? thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Wed May 15 20:25:17 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 16:25:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone Message-ID: Hi all, this is Helga. I’m thinking in getting an I-phone this summer on July, due to the fact, that my contract is going to be over. I actually have a sansansung that has the mobile Speak feature, but namany people recommend me an I-phone because it has more advantages. As a matter of fact, I was thinking in connecting my BrailleNote device to the I-phone in order to display in Braille what’s on the screen. In fact, I was thinking in bying an I-phone 5 , What do you recommend me? Do you think an I-phone 5 is good for me? Thank you so much and God bless! From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed May 15 20:31:33 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 16:31:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Helga, Yes, an IPhone5 should be good, especially if you plan to connect it with your notetaker. On 5/15/13, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hi all, this is Helga. I’m thinking in getting an I-phone this summer on > July, due to the fact, that my contract is going to be over. I actually have > a sansansung that has the mobile Speak feature, but namany people recommend > me an I-phone because it has more advantages. As a matter of fact, I was > thinking in connecting my BrailleNote device to the I-phone in order to > display in Braille what’s on the screen. In fact, I was thinking in bying an > I-phone 5 , What do you recommend me? Do you think an I-phone 5 is good for > me? Thank you so much and God bless! > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Wed May 15 21:06:20 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 17:06:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kaiti, this is Helga. I would like to attend the connference call that you guys have the third Sunday o every month. Is the confference call that you guys have on the third sunday of every mont at 4 PM right? I just wanted to make sure. Also, do you think I should wait until I get my i-phone in order to be part of the confference, since I have a sansung that only has the mobile speak feature, and I don't really know how to put the code in? By the way, thanks! for the suggestion!. Thanks and God bless!! :) -----Original Message----- From: Kaiti Shelton Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone Hi Helga, Yes, an IPhone5 should be good, especially if you plan to connect it with your notetaker. On 5/15/13, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hi all, this is Helga. I’m thinking in getting an I-phone this summer on > July, due to the fact, that my contract is going to be over. I actually > have > a sansansung that has the mobile Speak feature, but namany people > recommend > me an I-phone because it has more advantages. As a matter of fact, I was > thinking in connecting my BrailleNote device to the I-phone in order to > display in Braille what’s on the screen. In fact, I was thinking in bying > an > I-phone 5 , What do you recommend me? Do you think an I-phone 5 is good > for > me? Thank you so much and God bless! > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Wed May 15 22:47:22 2013 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 15:47:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NVDA screen reader News: New NV Access website launches today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000c01ce51be$2ab7d590$802780b0$@gmail.com> -----Original Message----- From: Nvda-announce [mailto:nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org] On Behalf Of NVDA announcement list Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 3:42 PM To: nvda-announce at lists.nvaccess.org Subject: NVDA screen reader News: New NV Access website launches today We are excited to be launching our new, improved website today at http://www.nvaccess.org. We have revamped the site to better tell our story, in order to raise much needed funds to keep NVDA going. nvaccess.org will be the central online presence for NV Access and NVDA now. It brings together content from our previous websites in a much more streamlined way. You can download NVDA at nvaccess.org/download from now on. And to access development, translation and other community related content you can follow the "community" link in the footer. This link will take you to http://community.nvda-project.org/ On the home page of our new website, http://www.nvaccess.org, you will be able to play a video called "Our Mission", which tells the NVDA story. We would really appreciate it if you could share a link to this video with your friends and family, letting them know how NVDA has helped you, and telling them that donations will help us to keep NVDA going. Any donation, big or small, makes a difference to us and we thank you in advance. Of course, if you know any companies who might be in a position to sponsor us, definitely pass the video link on and have them get in touch with us. Thanks again everyone for your fantastic loyalty and support, which makes what we do so rewarding. A direct link to the video on Youtube, if you need it, is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOQ7zELFmLE Please be patient as we do our best to resolve any issues arising from the changes to our websites. Please consider donating to NV Access to support NVDA's continued development: http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate -- This is the NVDA announcement mailing list. To unsubscribe or edit your options, please visit: http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-announce From ajschwichow at gmail.com Wed May 15 23:30:11 2013 From: ajschwichow at gmail.com (Alexa Schwichow) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 18:30:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] audio described TV shows Message-ID: Does anyone here know of a website other than blind mice mart where I can download audio described TV shows? From dandrews at visi.com Thu May 16 00:43:32 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 19:43:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NVDA screen reader News: New NV Access website launches today Message-ID: > >We are excited to be launching our new, improved website today at >http://www.nvaccess.org. We have revamped the site to better tell >our story, in order to raise much needed funds to keep NVDA going. >nvaccess.org will be the central online presence for NV Access and >NVDA now. It brings together content from our previous websites in a >much more streamlined way. You can download NVDA at >nvaccess.org/download from now on. And to access development, >translation and other community related content you can follow the >"community" link in the footer. This link will take you to >http://community.nvda-project.org/ > >On the home page of our new website, http://www.nvaccess.org, you >will be able to play a video called "Our Mission", which tells the >NVDA story. We would really appreciate it if you could share a link >to this video with your friends and family, letting them know how >NVDA has helped you, and telling them that donations will help us to >keep NVDA going. Any donation, big or small, makes a difference to >us and we thank you in advance. Of course, if you know any companies >who might be in a position to sponsor us, definitely pass the video >link on and have them get in touch with us. Thanks again everyone >for your fantastic loyalty and support, which makes what we do so >rewarding. A direct link to the video on Youtube, if you need it, >is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOQ7zELFmLE > >Please be patient as we do our best to resolve any issues arising >from the changes to our websites. > >Please consider donating to NV Access to support NVDA's continued development: >http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate From lilliepennington at fuse.net Thu May 16 00:48:04 2013 From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 20:48:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> Message-ID: Lol. That's why whenever I go to major blind functions I attempt to personalize my cane somehow using tape or something Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2013, at 10:13 PM, Darian Smith wrote: > That makes sense, a lot of sense. > well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* > > at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost always walks out with someone else's cane haha > On May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >> putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose it >> by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the process of >> doing that so finding my table or corner again without a cane can be >> kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, I tend to be a >> better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident one. :) >> I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't remember if >> I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or somewhere else >> where I didn't know many people then I think I would keep it on, but I >> would probably prefer to carry a small purse that might not be big >> enough for the cane. I've actually had the most cane trouble at dances >> with other blind people, because everybody has a cane and there aren't >> many folks to keep an eye on your cane for you. I suppose the purse or >> cane holster might be the best solution, unless there are good sound >> cues in the venue and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to >> navigate without a cane. >> Arielle >> >> On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played >>> rap music. >>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >>> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>> >>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu May 16 01:34:47 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 21:34:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] audio described TV shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I don't know if you can download from them, but you can stream described tv shows from five channels at blindy.tv. I also was told about listentoamovie.com today, which has audio-only movies. I have yet to really explore that one, but from what I've seen it looks pretty good. On 5/15/13, Alexa Schwichow wrote: > Does anyone here know of a website other than blind mice mart where I can > download audio described TV shows? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu May 16 02:35:35 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 22:35:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] audio described TV shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: While blindy.tv is a great site, there isn't a way to download shows or documentaries from the site; it is by Internet stream only. Also, I looked at the other site mentioned, listentomovies.com, and started listening to two movies, Beauty and the Beast and Home Alone 3, but where they had plenty of chance to insert audio description, there was none. I suspect that there is no audio description on these movies. For that reason, I do not recommend the site. My two cents? Jewel Sent from my iPhone On May 15, 2013, at 9:34 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi, > > I don't know if you can download from them, but you can stream > described tv shows from five channels at blindy.tv. I also was told > about listentoamovie.com today, which has audio-only movies. I have > yet to really explore that one, but from what I've seen it looks > pretty good. > > On 5/15/13, Alexa Schwichow wrote: >> Does anyone here know of a website other than blind mice mart where I can >> download audio described TV shows? >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu May 16 02:43:21 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 21:43:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone Message-ID: <519447f3.24c8ec0a.329c.55c1@mx.google.com> Helga,=20I=20think=20you'll=20love=20an=20iPhone!=20I=20have=20one=20and=20= can't=20 imagine=20living=20without=20it.=20However,=20the=20iPhone=205=20is=20price= d=20at=20 around=20$200.=20If=20you're=20looking=20for=20something=20a=20little=20che= aper,=20I=20 suggest=20you=20get=20the=204S.=20Though=20I've=20never=20used=20a=205=20pe= rsonally,=20 I've=20been=20told=20there's=20very=20little=20difference=20except=20a=20bi= gger=20 screen=20which=20doesn't=20really=20matter=20to=20most=20of=20us. =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Kaiti=20Shelton=20=20wrote: =20Hi=20all,=20this=20is=20Helga.=20I=92m=20thinking=20in=20getting=20an=20= I-phone=20this=20 summer=20on =20July,=20due=20to=20the=20fact,=20that=20my=20contract=20is=20going=20to= =20be=20over.=20I=20 actually=20have =20a=20sansansung=20that=20has=20the=20mobile=20Speak=20feature,=20but=20na= many=20 people=20recommend =20me=20an=20I-phone=20because=20it=20has=20more=20advantages.=20As=20a=20m= atter=20of=20 fact,=20I=20was =20thinking=20in=20connecting=20my=20BrailleNote=20device=20to=20the=20I-ph= one=20in=20 order=20to =20display=20in=20Braille=20what=92s=20on=20the=20screen.=20In=20fact,=20I= =20was=20thinking=20 in=20bying=20an =20I-phone=205=20,=20What=20do=20you=20recommend=20me?=20Do=20you=20think=20= an=20I-phone=205=20 is=20good=20for =20me?=20Thank=20you=20so=20much=20and=20God=20bless! =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l=20mailing=20list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco= unt=20info=20 for=20nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu May 16 04:06:11 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 22:06:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone In-Reply-To: <519447f3.24c8ec0a.329c.55c1@mx.google.com> References: <519447f3.24c8ec0a.329c.55c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sophie, That's...not entirely true. While I've found the 4s adequett, and while the miriad of features the 5 has which the 4s does not have aren't really important to me, the phones are far from the same. For one, the 5 has a significantly better camera which is especially handy for applications like Vizwiz, TapTtapSee and iGoggles, which many blind voiceover users depend on. Furthermore, if you're going to be using your iPhone to scan and read text, which some people like to do, the better camera could be a deal breaker. Also, I think the five has better battery life than the 4s, and that can be invaluable if you're one of those people who uses the GPS all the time. Lastly, and this might not seem like a big deal, but the 5 is much thinner and lighter; I can see how that could really matter to some ppeople, though it doesn't really make any difference for me. Also, and I know this point has been made many times on here, but the 5 will likely keep up much better with future versions of IOS. Depending on your budget, Helga, I might actually seriously consider a 5 because they are much cheaper than they used to be. Especially if you can find a decent used one on the internet somewhere. Alternatively, if you'll be starting a completely new phone contract, you might consider waiting a few more months to see what the next iPhone model will be like. There isn't really a right answer, it just depends on what you're looking for. If you want the cheapest possible phone that will work right now and give you siri plus voiceover, get the 4s. If you want something a little more moddern, which won't lag as far behind in the long run, go with the 5. And, if you have the time and a little bit extra money, you can always wait it out and see if the next model will have some new feature which might be worth the added expense. Best, Kirt On 5/15/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Helga, I think you'll love an iPhone! I have one and can't > imagine living without it. However, the iPhone 5 is priced at > around $200. If you're looking for something a little cheaper, I > suggest you get the 4S. Though I've never used a 5 personally, > I've been told there's very little difference except a bigger > screen which doesn't really matter to most of us. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 15 May 2013 16:31:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone > > Hi Helga, > > Yes, an IPhone5 should be good, especially if you plan to connect > it > with your notetaker. > > On 5/15/13, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hi all, this is Helga. I뭢 thinking in getting an I-phone this > summer on > July, due to the fact, that my contract is going to be over. I > actually have > a sansansung that has the mobile Speak feature, but namany > people recommend > me an I-phone because it has more advantages. As a matter of > fact, I was > thinking in connecting my BrailleNote device to the I-phone in > order to > display in Braille what뭩 on the screen. In fact, I was thinking > in bying an > I-phone 5 , What do you recommend me? Do you think an I-phone 5 > is good for > me? Thank you so much and God bless! > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > From sparklylicious at gmail.com Thu May 16 04:36:18 2013 From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 21:36:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Cafe Scribe Message-ID: <005201ce51ee$e9ebbcd0$bdc33670$@gmail.com> Hi All, I hope this email finds you well. I'm taking a summer course in western history, and was just looking at the textbook that I will need. It says that we could rent it in café scribe digital format. I did a little research on café scribe, and saw that it's not very accessible. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this type of e-text? Best, Hannah chadwick University of California, Davis CA From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu May 16 05:12:37 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 01:12:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <519447f3.24c8ec0a.329c.55c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Also, to add to what Kirt pointed out, when the new IPhone model comes out the 5 will likely drop in price significantly since the supply and demand will both be on the latest model. I got a great deal on my 4 when the 4S came out, and considering all I've put that phone through it was a steal getting it for the reduced price. It wasn't so out of date that it was totally unable to keep up with the IOS updates at the time, it suited my needs, and all that stuff. So, it's likely that unless Apple is planning to surprise everyone with some radical update to the phone's system or something that the same will happen here. Hope this helps. On 5/16/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Sophie, > That's...not entirely true. While I've found the 4s adequett, and > while the miriad of features the 5 has which the 4s does not have > aren't really important to me, the phones are far from the same. For > one, the 5 has a significantly better camera which is especially handy > for applications like Vizwiz, TapTtapSee and iGoggles, which many > blind voiceover users depend on. Furthermore, if you're going to be > using your iPhone to scan and read text, which some people like to do, > the better camera could be a deal breaker. Also, I think the five has > better battery life than the 4s, and that can be invaluable if you're > one of those people who uses the GPS all the time. Lastly, and this > might not seem like a big deal, but the 5 is much thinner and lighter; > I can see how that could really matter to some ppeople, though it > doesn't really make any difference for me. Also, and I know this > point has been made many times on here, but the 5 will likely keep up > much better with future versions of IOS. > Depending on your budget, Helga, I might actually seriously consider > a 5 because they are much cheaper than they used to be. Especially if > you can find a decent used one on the internet somewhere. > Alternatively, if you'll be starting a completely new phone contract, > you might consider waiting a few more months to see what the next > iPhone model will be like. There isn't really a right answer, it just > depends on what you're looking for. If you want the cheapest possible > phone that will work right now and give you siri plus voiceover, get > the 4s. If you want something a little more moddern, which won't lag > as far behind in the long run, go with the 5. And, if you have the > time and a little bit extra money, you can always wait it out and see > if the next model will have some new feature which might be worth the > added expense. > Best, > Kirt > > On 5/15/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Helga, I think you'll love an iPhone! I have one and can't >> imagine living without it. However, the iPhone 5 is priced at >> around $200. If you're looking for something a little cheaper, I >> suggest you get the 4S. Though I've never used a 5 personally, >> I've been told there's very little difference except a bigger >> screen which doesn't really matter to most of us. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 15 May 2013 16:31:33 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone >> >> Hi Helga, >> >> Yes, an IPhone5 should be good, especially if you plan to connect >> it >> with your notetaker. >> >> On 5/15/13, Helga Schreiber wrote: >> Hi all, this is Helga. I뭢 thinking in getting an I-phone this >> summer on >> July, due to the fact, that my contract is going to be over. I >> actually have >> a sansansung that has the mobile Speak feature, but namany >> people recommend >> me an I-phone because it has more advantages. As a matter of >> fact, I was >> thinking in connecting my BrailleNote device to the I-phone in >> order to >> display in Braille what뭩 on the screen. In fact, I was thinking >> in bying an >> I-phone 5 , What do you recommend me? Do you think an I-phone 5 >> is good for >> me? Thank you so much and God bless! >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From jty727 at gmail.com Thu May 16 17:08:47 2013 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 13:08:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? Message-ID: Hi All, Hope the end of your semesters are treating you well! I was wondering if any knew of any all-in-one Printers that were compatible with Kurzweil? I don't know enough about technology to know how to even answer this question, but I was thinking of getting one and wanted to make sure I knew what to look for. As always any suggestions offered are always appreciated. Thanks, Justin From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Thu May 16 20:08:01 2013 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 16:08:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Justin, The kurtzweil web page provides a list of requirements to run the software. The scanner requirement is any device with the Twain label which can be found on most HP scanners. I hope this helps. Let me know if you would like more information and I can locate the link. Best, Bridget Sent from my iPad On May 16, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Justin Young wrote: > Hi All, > > Hope the end of your semesters are treating you well! I was wondering > if any knew of any all-in-one Printers that were compatible with > Kurzweil? I don't know enough about technology to know how to even > answer this question, but I was thinking of getting one and wanted to > make sure I knew what to look for. As always any suggestions offered > are always appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu May 16 20:24:22 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 15:24:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone Message-ID: <519540a1.0c95ec0a.36aa.6431@mx.google.com> Kirt, I can agree with most of your points. I don't use the camera on my 4S, so I wouldn't know. And your point about it keeping up with later versions of IOS is valid. But my 4S has a wonderful battery life. I've used it from 6-8 hours almost constantly (listening to audiobooks) and the battery lasts for all that time. I was making a suggestion to Helga, because I know some people can't afford the latest version of the iPhone or any piece of technology. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: Helga, I think you'll love an iPhone! I have one and can't imagine living without it. However, the iPhone 5 is priced at around $200. If you're looking for something a little cheaper, I suggest you get the 4S. Though I've never used a 5 personally, I've been told there's very little difference except a bigger screen which doesn't really matter to most of us. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Hi all, this is Helga. Ië­¢ thinking in getting an I-phone this summer on July, due to the fact, that my contract is going to be over. I actually have a sansansung that has the mobile Speak feature, but namany people recommend me an I-phone because it has more advantages. As a matter of fact, I was thinking in connecting my BrailleNote device to the I-phone in order to display in Braille whatë­© on the screen. In fact, I was thinking in bying an I-phone 5 , What do you recommend me? Do you think an I-phone 5 is good for me? Thank you so much and God bless! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 16 21:03:30 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:03:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone In-Reply-To: <519540a1.0c95ec0a.36aa.6431@mx.google.com> References: <519540a1.0c95ec0a.36aa.6431@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <013c01ce5278$d28cf790$77a6e6b0$@gmail.com> Sophie, Helga and all, Honestly, most of the changes made in the iPhone 5 are visual in nature. For this reason, I bought the 4S after the 5 came out, as I didn't see a point in spending another $100 on a phone that I didn't really need for my purposes. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:24 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone Kirt, I can agree with most of your points. I don't use the camera on my 4S, so I wouldn't know. And your point about it keeping up with later versions of IOS is valid. But my 4S has a wonderful battery life. I've used it from 6-8 hours almost constantly (listening to audiobooks) and the battery lasts for all that time. I was making a suggestion to Helga, because I know some people can't afford the latest version of the iPhone or any piece of technology. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: Helga, I think you'll love an iPhone! I have one and can't imagine living without it. However, the iPhone 5 is priced at around $200. If you're looking for something a little cheaper, I suggest you get the 4S. Though I've never used a 5 personally, I've been told there's very little difference except a bigger screen which doesn't really matter to most of us. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Hi all, this is Helga. Ië­¢ thinking in getting an I-phone this summer on July, due to the fact, that my contract is going to be over. I actually have a sansansung that has the mobile Speak feature, but namany people recommend me an I-phone because it has more advantages. As a matter of fact, I was thinking in connecting my BrailleNote device to the I-phone in order to display in Braille whatë­© on the screen. In fact, I was thinking in bying an I-phone 5 , What do you recommend me? Do you think an I-phone 5 is good for me? Thank you so much and God bless! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 16 21:13:48 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:13:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <014901ce527a$42af1020$c80d3060$@gmail.com> Justin, I would definitely look at the resource Bridgit provided to you in her note. With this said, I use the HP 8600 all-in-one printer. This machine is an all-in-one printer, scanner, faxer and copier. What's really cool about this model is that the computer software has a built-in OCR engine. This means you are able to scan a document and tell the software to automatically do OCR on it. Once this is completed, a standard "save as" dialogue box will come up. The document will by default be saved as a rich text (RTF) file, which you can open in Microsoft Word or any other similar worde-processing program. This negates the need for Kurzweil, and is a much cheaper scanning solution. Hope this helps, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? Hi All, Hope the end of your semesters are treating you well! I was wondering if any knew of any all-in-one Printers that were compatible with Kurzweil? I don't know enough about technology to know how to even answer this question, but I was thinking of getting one and wanted to make sure I knew what to look for. As always any suggestions offered are always appreciated. Thanks, Justin _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu May 16 21:28:41 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:28:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone In-Reply-To: <013c01ce5278$d28cf790$77a6e6b0$@gmail.com> References: <519540a1.0c95ec0a.36aa.6431@mx.google.com> <013c01ce5278$d28cf790$77a6e6b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: It really just depends on what you're using your phone for. If, like Kirt and myself, you use your phone for things like a barcode scanner and such the camera is something you'd want to take into consideration. On the otherhand, if the visual features aren't that important and you want to save money go for it. It just depends on your individual needs and what you want out of the phone. I will say though that even my 4 has pretty good battery life considering how much I use it on a daily basis. On 5/16/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Sophie, Helga and all, > > Honestly, most of the changes made in the iPhone 5 are visual in nature. > For > this reason, I bought the 4S after the 5 came out, as I didn't see a point > in spending another $100 on a phone that I didn't really need for my > purposes. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone > > Kirt, I can agree with most of your points. I don't use the camera on my > 4S, > so I wouldn't know. And your point about it keeping up with later versions > of IOS is valid. But my 4S has a wonderful battery life. I've used it from > 6-8 hours almost constantly (listening to audiobooks) and the battery lasts > for all that time. I was making a suggestion to Helga, because I know some > people can't afford the latest version of the iPhone or any piece of > technology. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 15 May 2013 22:06:11 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone > > Sophie, > That's...not entirely true. While I've found the 4s adequett, and while > the miriad of features the 5 has which the 4s does not have aren't really > important to me, the phones are far from the same. > For > one, the 5 has a significantly better camera which is especially handy for > applications like Vizwiz, TapTtapSee and iGoggles, which many blind > voiceover users depend on. Furthermore, if you're going to be using your > iPhone to scan and read text, which some people like to do, the better > camera could be a deal breaker. Also, I think the five has better battery > life than the 4s, and that can be invaluable if you're one of those people > who uses the GPS all the time. Lastly, and this might not seem like a big > deal, but the 5 is much thinner and lighter; I can see how that could > really > matter to some ppeople, though it doesn't really make any difference for > me. > Also, and I know this point has been made many times on here, but the 5 > will > likely keep up much better with future versions of IOS. > Depending on your budget, Helga, I might actually seriously consider a 5 > because they are much cheaper than they used to be. > Especially if > you can find a decent used one on the internet somewhere. > Alternatively, if you'll be starting a completely new phone contract, you > might consider waiting a few more months to see what the next iPhone model > will be like. There isn't really a right answer, it just depends on what > you're looking for. If you want the cheapest possible phone that will work > right now and give you siri plus voiceover, get the 4s. If you want > something a little more moddern, which won't lag as far behind in the long > run, go with the 5. And, if you have the time and a little bit extra > money, > you can always wait it out and see if the next model will have some new > feature which might be worth the added expense. > Best, > Kirt > > On 5/15/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Helga, I think you'll love an iPhone! I have one and can't imagine living > without it. However, the iPhone 5 is priced at around $200. If you're > looking for something a little cheaper, I suggest you get the 4S. Though > I've never used a 5 personally, I've been told there's very little > difference except a bigger screen which doesn't really matter to most of > us. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 15 May 2013 16:31:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone > > Hi Helga, > > Yes, an IPhone5 should be good, especially if you plan to connect it > with > your notetaker. > > On 5/15/13, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hi all, this is Helga. Ië­¢ thinking in getting an I-phone this summer > on > July, due to the fact, that my contract is going to be over. I actually > have > a sansansung that has the mobile Speak feature, but namany people > recommend > me an I-phone because it has more advantages. As a matter of fact, I was > thinking in connecting my BrailleNote device to the I-phone in order to > display in Braille whatë­© on the screen. In fact, I was thinking in > bying an > I-phone 5 , What do you recommend me? Do you think an I-phone 5 is good > for > me? Thank you so much and God bless! > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From jty727 at gmail.com Thu May 16 22:46:49 2013 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 18:46:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? In-Reply-To: <014901ce527a$42af1020$c80d3060$@gmail.com> References: <014901ce527a$42af1020$c80d3060$@gmail.com> Message-ID: this printer sounds very cool! On 5/16/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Justin, > > I would definitely look at the resource Bridgit provided to you in her > note. > With this said, I use the HP 8600 all-in-one printer. This machine is an > all-in-one printer, scanner, faxer and copier. What's really cool about > this > model is that the computer software has a built-in OCR engine. This means > you are able to scan a document and tell the software to automatically do > OCR on it. Once this is completed, a standard "save as" dialogue box will > come up. The document will by default be saved as a rich text (RTF) file, > which you can open in Microsoft Word or any other similar worde-processing > program. This negates the need for Kurzweil, and is a much cheaper scanning > solution. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? > > Hi All, > > Hope the end of your semesters are treating you well! I was wondering if > any knew of any all-in-one Printers that were compatible with Kurzweil? I > don't know enough about technology to know how to even answer this > question, > but I was thinking of getting one and wanted to make sure I knew what to > look for. As always any suggestions offered are always appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu May 16 23:11:05 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:11:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? In-Reply-To: References: <014901ce527a$42af1020$c80d3060$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I own a Canon MX 700 printer/scanner/copier and it works fine with Kurzweil. However, I would honestly recommend RoboBraille over any OCR program. RoboBraille is a free email-based service that provides OCR of scanned PDF's and other images within a few minutes. I actually think the OCR quality is better than the OCR quality I get from Kurzweil 90% of the time, and the OCR version is sent back in properly formatted Microsoft Word, not a file format you have to either save in Kurzweil or paste into a Word doc and lose all the formatting. Because of these advantages I've completely stopped using Kurzweil and don't plan to upgrade my copy. Frankly, I don't see the justification for having students or rehab agencies spend money on a program that generates less accurate and less user-friendly OCR output than something that's free. To use RoboBraille, send the image document as an attachment to convert at robobraille.org and put "doc" in the subject line (leave the body blank). I have only done this with scanned PDF's but I believe that RoboBraille can also handle TIF, JPG and other image formats that your scanner will generate for you. Best, Arielle On 5/16/13, Justin Young wrote: > this printer sounds very cool! > > On 5/16/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Justin, >> >> I would definitely look at the resource Bridgit provided to you in her >> note. >> With this said, I use the HP 8600 all-in-one printer. This machine is an >> all-in-one printer, scanner, faxer and copier. What's really cool about >> this >> model is that the computer software has a built-in OCR engine. This means >> you are able to scan a document and tell the software to automatically do >> OCR on it. Once this is completed, a standard "save as" dialogue box will >> come up. The document will by default be saved as a rich text (RTF) file, >> which you can open in Microsoft Word or any other similar >> worde-processing >> program. This negates the need for Kurzweil, and is a much cheaper >> scanning >> solution. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young >> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? >> >> Hi All, >> >> Hope the end of your semesters are treating you well! I was wondering if >> any knew of any all-in-one Printers that were compatible with Kurzweil? >> I >> don't know enough about technology to know how to even answer this >> question, >> but I was thinking of getting one and wanted to make sure I knew what to >> look for. As always any suggestions offered are always appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu May 16 23:17:30 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 16:17:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The National Association of Blind Students Presents: The Basics of NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > Greetings Fellow Students! > We have all no doubt heard the term "Federation Philosophy" at one point or another, but how many of us can say that we truly understand it's meaning? > Fortunately we have experienced leaders in the Federation to explain the basics of NFB Philosophy to those of us who really want to understand it, and are curious enough to ask questions. > > Join NABS as we welcome special guest presenter Pam Allen, President of the NFB of Louisiana, treasurer > of the NFB board of directors, and Director of the Louisiana Center for the Blind (LCB) as we discuss what exactly is the philosophy of the national Federation of the Blind. > We are excited to have such a respected and admired member of our movement taking time out of her evening to have this discussion, so we really hope you can join us. > > When: Thursday, May 16th, 2013. 9p.m. ET. > Call: (605) - 475 - 6700 and enter code 7869673. > > > Darian Smith > 2nd Vice President, National Association of Blind Students > dsmithnfb at gmail.com > > www.nabslink.org > Follow the National Association of Blind Students on twitter: @nabslink > From lissa1531 at gmail.com Fri May 17 02:10:13 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 20:10:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? References: <014901ce527a$42af1020$c80d3060$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <781A70032D414063B1265C18FBE70D0E@HP30910210001> RoboBraille also converts powerpoint documents. I discovered that accidently when I sent a power point file to be converted. they sent it back converted. Blessings, Sincerely, Melissa and Pj Find me on: Twitter melissa5674 facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? I own a Canon MX 700 printer/scanner/copier and it works fine with Kurzweil. However, I would honestly recommend RoboBraille over any OCR program. RoboBraille is a free email-based service that provides OCR of scanned PDF's and other images within a few minutes. I actually think the OCR quality is better than the OCR quality I get from Kurzweil 90% of the time, and the OCR version is sent back in properly formatted Microsoft Word, not a file format you have to either save in Kurzweil or paste into a Word doc and lose all the formatting. Because of these advantages I've completely stopped using Kurzweil and don't plan to upgrade my copy. Frankly, I don't see the justification for having students or rehab agencies spend money on a program that generates less accurate and less user-friendly OCR output than something that's free. To use RoboBraille, send the image document as an attachment to convert at robobraille.org and put "doc" in the subject line (leave the body blank). I have only done this with scanned PDF's but I believe that RoboBraille can also handle TIF, JPG and other image formats that your scanner will generate for you. Best, Arielle On 5/16/13, Justin Young wrote: > this printer sounds very cool! > > On 5/16/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Justin, >> >> I would definitely look at the resource Bridgit provided to you in her >> note. >> With this said, I use the HP 8600 all-in-one printer. This machine is an >> all-in-one printer, scanner, faxer and copier. What's really cool about >> this >> model is that the computer software has a built-in OCR engine. This means >> you are able to scan a document and tell the software to automatically do >> OCR on it. Once this is completed, a standard "save as" dialogue box will >> come up. The document will by default be saved as a rich text (RTF) file, >> which you can open in Microsoft Word or any other similar >> worde-processing >> program. This negates the need for Kurzweil, and is a much cheaper >> scanning >> solution. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young >> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] All-in-one Printers compatible with Kurzweil? >> >> Hi All, >> >> Hope the end of your semesters are treating you well! I was wondering if >> any knew of any all-in-one Printers that were compatible with Kurzweil? >> I >> don't know enough about technology to know how to even answer this >> question, >> but I was thinking of getting one and wanted to make sure I knew what to >> look for. As always any suggestions offered are always appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 17 03:47:00 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 20:47:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Message-ID: Greetings Federation family, I would like to take this opportunity to thank each of you for making this philosophy call a wonderful success. We talked about a lot of great things and asked a lot of important questions which were only limited by time (we all have places to go in the morning, of course). I would like to Thank Pam Allen and Anil Lewis for spending their time and sharing their wisdom with us, as they communicated their experiences/ shared their love for the federation and support for NABS. Words cannot express the excitement and energy i felt from you all, and I Thank you for spending over two hours learning, giving and gaining. The truth is, we all are a part of this great movement and together we can do exceptional things. Hopefully, we never forget this. If for some reason we do, we have friends, family in the federation that will remind us, and stand with us as we push for personal success, and full independence for the blind. Best, Darian From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 17 03:58:48 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 20:58:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130513213724.01fa0310@comcast.net> <76D0DB68-3C75-4E8E-B286-E4E75058B902@gmail.com> <003b01ce4fef$d6cc14c0$84643e40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: fun times being taught how to dance. What kind of experiences have you all had with dance classes? On May 14, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > quite the interesting topic. :) > > Another take away; if you're interested and have the time, taking a > dance class, even if only for a few weeks, might be an option. Most > universities offer them for credit, and they're a great work out. I > took a West Coast Swing class in middle school and I still find myself > using some of those moves at formals now, plus it's fun. > > And Mary is right. The funniest memory I have from last semester was > when I was at a sleep over and a few other girls tried to teach me to > do moves like the stanky leg so I could propperly dance to Thriftshop. > It was hilarious for all of us, and I got a new move out of it. > > On 5/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> On 5/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> On 5/13/13, justin williams wrote: >>>> Yep, you got it. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian >>>> Smith >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:16 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>> >>>> So I guess the main takeaways are. >>>> 1. If you want to learn how to dance, it is best to get a friend or >>>> family >>>> member to teach you. >>>> 2 It's probably better to use a collapsable/telescoping cane, >>>> especially >>>> in >>>> larger dance halls. >>>> 3. Confidence (as in many aspects in life) is key; even if it's liquid >>>> courage *smile* (don't worry under-agers, confidence is much better than >>>> the >>>> alternative because you'll feel better in the morning hahaha) 4. >>>> ladies, >>>> it's all in the purse (where would we be without you, Julie? *smile*). >>>> 5. ladies: feel free to use your date as a cane storer( . if it works. >>>> I'm >>>> starting to get the idea that the ladies have a easier time here than >>>> the >>>> fellas). >>>> 6. Cane holders may or not be an option ( experimentation is probably >>>> where it's at on this one, again, unless your date doubles as a cane >>>> storer >>>> *smile*) 7. It's all about country music. no, it's all about rap. nope, >>>> all >>>> about having fun, so just go with it! >>>> does that just about cover it? >>>> yay for NABS! >>>> now back to the academic stuff. >>>> ) >>>> >>>> . >>>> On May 13, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Julie McGinnity >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, I don't go to these types of functions a lot if I can help >>>>> it... But I used to go to formals when I was in high school. Back >>>>> then I went with a group of friends. We all had a pact that we would >>>>> never leave one of our group alone. It wasn't about me being blind or >>>>> anything; we just didn't want to lose each other. >>>>> >>>>> Of course, that isn't practical now that I'm older. But I don't >>>>> think I would ever set my cane aside in a corner or against a wall at >>>>> a dance party. There are too many people. It is very easy to lose >>>>> your friends or whoever you are with. Dances are also kind of >>>>> disorienting to me because of the noise and the crowds, so I would >>>>> feel nervous without my cane to help me get out. For the women, I >>>>> would suggest getting a purse. You can get a light wait one that >>>>> hangs over your shoulder and in front of you. Just make it as light >>>>> as you can to help you dance, but make sure it's big enough for a >>>>> cane. There are all types of purses. If your outfit is dark, you can >>>>> match a black one, and if you're wearing a brighter colored dress, >>>>> then go with something silver. Having a matching dress and shoes is >>>>> always a good way to go. You don't even need a heavy leather purse. >>>>> A light, cloth one will do. It also depends on your dress too and how >>>>> formal the event is. To be honest, I would feel safer keeping a purse >>>>> on me as a blind person because I would hate to misplace something >>>>> like that at a dance and be unable to find it again. Also, girls, a >>>>> purse is a great place to store the heals when you get tired of them. >>>>> >>>>> As for the dancing, I don't know since I avoid it whenever possible. >>>>> I'd rather talk to people and listen to music I actually like. The >>>>> club type music isn't really my thing either. But it's easy enough to >>>>> learn standard dances from a trusted friend or family member. My >>>>> friends taught me and/or led me through all those dances in high >>>>> school. But I'd still rather not dance at all. :) >>>>> >>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt wrote: >>>>>> Carly, >>>>>> I'm not offended at all, so don't even worry about it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 10:38 PM, Carly Mihalakis >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> A new infraction, TUI (traveling under the influence) CarAt 07:13 PM >>>>>>> 5/13/2013, Darian Smith wrote: >>>>>>>> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >>>>>>>> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone >>>>>>>> succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had >>>>>>>> something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into >>>>>>>> cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that >>>>>>>> it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost >>>>>>>> always walks out with someone else's cane haha On May 13, 2013, at >>>>>>>> 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >>>>>>>>> putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose >>>>>>>>> it by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the >>>>>>>>> process of doing that so finding my table or corner again without >>>>>>>>> a cane can be kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, >>>>>>>>> I tend to be a better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident >>>>>>>>> one. :) I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't >>>>>>>>> remember if I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or >>>>>>>>> somewhere else where I didn't know many people then I think I >>>>>>>>> would keep it on, but I would probably prefer to carry a small >>>>>>>>> purse that might not be big enough for the cane. I've actually had >>>>>>>>> the most cane trouble at dances with other blind people, because >>>>>>>>> everybody has a cane and there aren't many folks to keep an eye on >>>>>>>>> your cane for you. I suppose the purse or cane holster might be >>>>>>>>> the best solution, unless there are good sound cues in the venue >>>>>>>>> and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to navigate without a >>>> cane. >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>>>>>>>>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that >>>>>>>>>> only played rap music. >>>>>>>>>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian >>>>>>>>>> Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, >>>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes--and it's funny that everyone who responded to this thread >>>>>>>>>>> before me has been male? >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Haha, indeed! I obviously wasn't thinking very clearly...I >>>>>>>>>>>> suppose that would work for any of us guys, if we didn't really >>>>>>>>>>>> care about looking strange...just one of the reasons guys have >>>>>>>>>>>> it easier, I guess. :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, but if I'm going dancing I'm not going to be wearing >>>>>>>>>>>>> anything that holds a belt! How can you stow a cane on a >>>>>>>>>>>>> dress? Just thinking about it is kind of hilarious! >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HI Arielle, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've seen those funky cane holster thingies that attach to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> belt loop or something, maybe there are versions somewhere >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for telescopic canes? I think they look kind of silly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally but I suppose it's an option. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was fortunate to grow up among many Jewish kids who all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had bar and bat mitzvahs, (Jewish celebrations of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming-of-age that happen at age >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 or 13) and most had dance parties for their bar and bat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mitzvahs, so I became comfortable with dancing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially looking stupid at quite a young age. :) I'm sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some people taught me how to dance, though I can't remember >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who and honestly, by now I've forgotten most of my formal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instruction. I do remember being told that dancing is mainly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about having fun and just moving your body to the beat of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the music. I'm sure I don't dance perfectly but I've always >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had fun and nobody has ever criticized my dancing or not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to be with me on the dance floor because of my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dancing. So I don't think you need to worry too much about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how you appear to others. If the group is doing a line dance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the YMCA, and you don't know the moves for that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particular dance, there's no problem with sitting it out or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just moving off the dance floor to talk to people, or go get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a drink or snack or whatever, during that song. If you want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to learn some things, you could ask a friend or family >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member who has lots of dancing experience to teach you or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just to watch your moves and tell you what's good and what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you could change or improve on. Also, slow dancing is easy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for girls who are just supposed to follow the man, but if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're a guy and want to learn how to slow-dance with women >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you may want to get a little bit of formal instruction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is where to put my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane while dancing. When I was younger I would just go with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a sighted friend and stash my cane at a table while my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and I danced. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm less comfortable being with the same person all night >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'd like to be able to keep track of my cane myself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without having it on the dance floor with me. If I go to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dancing event I usually am not wearing clothes that allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for storage of a telescoping cane, unless I bring a purse >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and keep it on me while dancing, which I suppose is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option. I'm curious if others have found good ways to manage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this issue. The best solution I've used is to find a sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> landmark of some sort like the bar or music stand and put my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane in a corner near that spot. But this doesn't work as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well in large venues. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/13, justin williams >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a guy then; it's cool. That works. Longg as he can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dance a little, and is a good teacher. Tell him to move >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you your body for you at first so you can get the movement. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In japah, that is how the black belts teach the white >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> belts. That is how my instructor instructs me. Also, if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you don't drink, then that is fine too. That is just a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick I use. You can do the same thing with a cup of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> water, or a soda; it should work the same way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to hang onto a cup like that, then any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other methods will work just fine. You just got to mix and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> match my man. Mix and match. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:10 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers: should gender matter in who teaches you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and what would you suggest if you cannot or choose not to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partake in alcoholic beverages? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think these are very interesting points indeed, Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> curious as to other ways you might go about it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Justin! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:59 PM, justin williams >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get a friend, preferably a girl to teach you how to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a drink in your hand will give you an excuse not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to dance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I avoid dance clubs like the plague if at all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible; however, there are just times in social >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situations where you just have to shake a leg. Do the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best you can. Just move your hips and try to keep up with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the beat. There are a lot of other people out there with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you who can't dance either. They also look terrible. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you drink, it loosen's you up just a little. It doen't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make you better, you jus think you are. Smile just a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little even if you don't like dancing, or aren't very good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at it. The appearance of enjoyment, or hopefully you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually enjoying your self, lets everyone see that you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are confident; you can't dance and you know it, but you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't care. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helps. I feel you man; I'm in the same boat as you accept >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have learned a few tricks to fake it until I can get off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the dance floor. I get fairly drunk on nights like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that if I go out with a group of people because I am using >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trips to the bar as an excuse not to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dance. Remember, if possible, get a friend, especially a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> girl to teach you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Darian Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please excuse the slight 80's song reference, but I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> curious about how you all go about attending social >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> functions where dancing is a part of the atmosphere? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you decide to not take part in it because you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how to dance? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are you too shy? Do you just get out there regardless? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dancing, how do you learn how to dance if you can't do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what a lot of folks do and watch it on television or the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> internet? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .williams2%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> williams2%40gmail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazy >>>>>>>>>>>>> dude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%4 >>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40 >>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>>>>>> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comc >>>>>>>> ast.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Julie McG >>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri >>>>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the >>>>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only >>>>> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have >>>>> eternal life." >>>>> John 3:16 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 17 04:00:09 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 21:00:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? In-Reply-To: References: <76DFFA13-348B-4712-97D0-2075FA488051@gmail.com> <00ea01ce4f64$54938140$fdba83c0$@gmail.com> <00f201ce4f70$72234a90$5669dfb0$@gmail.com> <24052A8C-8E69-4772-AD09-49ADC113715E@gmail.com> <13623017-B4F7-4CDB-9723-325E72596B13@gmail.com> Message-ID: <702370CF-28C5-472E-8637-C92753974D1F@gmail.com> Personalizing your cane is always a good thing. I try light keychains sometimes. On May 15, 2013, at 5:48 PM, Lillie Pennington wrote: > Lol. That's why whenever I go to major blind functions I attempt to personalize my cane somehow using tape or something > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 13, 2013, at 10:13 PM, Darian Smith wrote: > >> That makes sense, a lot of sense. >> well.. except for that's the first I have heard of someone succeeding a little more so at traveling when they have had something to drink; guess we should try to incorporate that into cane travel curriculum at our training centers *smile* >> >> at functions with blind people I would even venture to say that it's tough to get your own cane back just because someone almost always walks out with someone else's cane haha >> On May 13, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> I like to jump and twirl around a lot while dancing, so if I tried >>> putting my cane down somewhere next to me I would definitely lose it >>> by the end, and I tend to get kind of disoriented in the process of >>> doing that so finding my table or corner again without a cane can be >>> kind of tricky. Although if I've had a drink or two, I tend to be a >>> better traveler... Or maybe just a more confident one. :) >>> I haven't gone out dancing for a long while now so I don't remember if >>> I kept a purse with me or not. If I went to a club or somewhere else >>> where I didn't know many people then I think I would keep it on, but I >>> would probably prefer to carry a small purse that might not be big >>> enough for the cane. I've actually had the most cane trouble at dances >>> with other blind people, because everybody has a cane and there aren't >>> many folks to keep an eye on your cane for you. I suppose the purse or >>> cane holster might be the best solution, unless there are good sound >>> cues in the venue and it's not so crowded as to be impossible to >>> navigate without a cane. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/13/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> I thought I'd chyme in on this one! >>>> I hate dancing, because the dances I've been to, had a DJ that only played >>>> rap music. >>>> Where's the classic Country when I need it? >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >>>> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:41 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CanI dance if I want to? >>>> >>>> You are just brave, I guess. hahaha >>>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Fri May 17 04:01:04 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 04:01:04 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When was the call? Was it recorded? Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:47 PM To: North Carolina Association of blind students; Arizona Association of blind students; Kentucky Association of blind students; Virginia Association of blind students; Maryland Association of blind students; Ohio Association of blind students; West Virginia Association of blind students; New York Association of blind students; New Hampshire Association of blind students; New Jersey Association of blind students; Illinois Association of blind students; Colorado Association of Blind Students; Texas Association of blind students; New Mexico Association of Blind Students; Georgia Association of blind students; Louisiana Association of blind students; fabs at nfbnet.org; Massachusetts Association of blind students; Tennessee Association of blind students; Minnesota Association of blind students; National Association of Blind Students mailing list; List for NABS State Presidents; cabs-talk blind students; Michigan Association of blind students; Wisconsin Association of blind students; Nebraska Association of blind students; Missouri Association of Blind Students; Alabama Association of blind students; Utah Association of blind students Cc: Pam Allen Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Greetings Federation family, I would like to take this opportunity to thank each of you for making this philosophy call a wonderful success. We talked about a lot of great things and asked a lot of important questions which were only limited by time (we all have places to go in the morning, of course). I would like to Thank Pam Allen and Anil Lewis for spending their time and sharing their wisdom with us, as they communicated their experiences/ shared their love for the federation and support for NABS. Words cannot express the excitement and energy i felt from you all, and I Thank you for spending over two hours learning, giving and gaining. The truth is, we all are a part of this great movement and together we can do exceptional things. Hopefully, we never forget this. If for some reason we do, we have friends, family in the federation that will remind us, and stand with us as we push for personal success, and full independence for the blind. Best, Darian _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 17 04:18:27 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 21:18:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Unfortunately tonight's call was not recorded. Hopefully we can get them to be for those who can't make it. this kind of call was actually one that was probably best experienced when one could interact. Hopefully we'll have another one like that in the future. On May 16, 2013, at 9:01 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > When was the call? > Was it recorded? > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:47 PM > To: North Carolina Association of blind students; Arizona Association of blind students; Kentucky Association of blind students; Virginia Association of blind students; Maryland Association of blind students; Ohio Association of blind students; West Virginia Association of blind students; New York Association of blind students; New Hampshire Association of blind students; New Jersey Association of blind students; Illinois Association of blind students; Colorado Association of Blind Students; Texas Association of blind students; New Mexico Association of Blind Students; Georgia Association of blind students; Louisiana Association of blind students; fabs at nfbnet.org; Massachusetts Association of blind students; Tennessee Association of blind students; Minnesota Association of blind students; National Association of Blind Students mailing list; List for NABS State Presidents; cabs-talk blind students; Michigan Association of blind students; Wisconsin Association of blind students; Nebraska Association of blind students; Missouri Association of Blind Students; Alabama Association of blind students; Utah Association of blind students > Cc: Pam Allen > Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > > Greetings Federation family, > I would like to take this opportunity to thank each of you for making this philosophy call a wonderful success. > We talked about a lot of great things and asked a lot of important questions which were only limited by time (we all have places to go in the morning, of course). > I would like to Thank Pam Allen and Anil Lewis for spending their time and sharing their wisdom with us, as they communicated their experiences/ shared their love for the federation and support for NABS. > > Words cannot express the excitement and energy i felt from you all, and I Thank you for spending over two hours learning, giving and gaining. > The truth is, we all are a part of this great movement and together we can do exceptional things. Hopefully, we never forget this. > If for some reason we do, we have friends, family in the federation that will remind us, and stand with us as we push for personal success, and full independence for the blind. > > Best, > > > Darian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Fri May 17 04:27:01 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 22:27:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] audio described TV shows References: Message-ID: <2F396907109C49319ACFD884BE54F674@HP30910210001> I didn't find any tv shows that I liked on blindy.tv. Blessings, Sincerely, Melissa and Pj Find me on: Twitter melissa5674 facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] audio described TV shows While blindy.tv is a great site, there isn't a way to download shows or documentaries from the site; it is by Internet stream only. Also, I looked at the other site mentioned, listentomovies.com, and started listening to two movies, Beauty and the Beast and Home Alone 3, but where they had plenty of chance to insert audio description, there was none. I suspect that there is no audio description on these movies. For that reason, I do not recommend the site. My two cents? Jewel Sent from my iPhone On May 15, 2013, at 9:34 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi, > > I don't know if you can download from them, but you can stream > described tv shows from five channels at blindy.tv. I also was told > about listentoamovie.com today, which has audio-only movies. I have > yet to really explore that one, but from what I've seen it looks > pretty good. > > On 5/15/13, Alexa Schwichow wrote: >> Does anyone here know of a website other than blind mice mart where I can >> download audio described TV shows? >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri May 17 04:32:37 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 22:32:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How many people participated? Arielle On 5/16/13, Darian Smith wrote: > Unfortunately tonight's call was not recorded. > Hopefully we can get them to be for those who can't make it. > this kind of call was actually one that was probably best experienced > when one could interact. Hopefully we'll have another one like that in > the future. > > On May 16, 2013, at 9:01 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> When was the call? >> Was it recorded? >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:47 PM >> To: North Carolina Association of blind students; Arizona Association of >> blind students; Kentucky Association of blind students; Virginia >> Association of blind students; Maryland Association of blind students; >> Ohio Association of blind students; West Virginia Association of blind >> students; New York Association of blind students; New Hampshire >> Association of blind students; New Jersey Association of blind students; >> Illinois Association of blind students; Colorado Association of Blind >> Students; Texas Association of blind students; New Mexico Association of >> Blind Students; Georgia Association of blind students; Louisiana >> Association of blind students; fabs at nfbnet.org; Massachusetts Association >> of blind students; Tennessee Association of blind students; Minnesota >> Association of blind students; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list; List for NABS State Presidents; cabs-talk blind students; >> Michigan Association of blind students; Wisconsin Association of blind >> students; Nebraska Association of blind students; Missouri Association of >> Blind Students; Alabama Association of blind students; Utah Association of >> blind students >> Cc: Pam Allen >> Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> Greetings Federation family, >> I would like to take this opportunity to thank each of you for making >> this philosophy call a wonderful success. >> We talked about a lot of great things and asked a lot of important >> questions which were only limited by time (we all have places to go in the >> morning, of course). >> I would like to Thank Pam Allen and Anil Lewis for spending their time >> and sharing their wisdom with us, as they communicated their experiences/ >> shared their love for the federation and support for NABS. >> >> Words cannot express the excitement and energy i felt from you all, and >> I Thank you for spending over two hours learning, giving and gaining. >> The truth is, we all are a part of this great movement and together >> we can do exceptional things. Hopefully, we never forget this. >> If for some reason we do, we have friends, family in the federation that >> will remind us, and stand with us as we push for personal success, and >> full independence for the blind. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Darian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri May 17 04:38:57 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 22:38:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] audio described TV shows In-Reply-To: <2F396907109C49319ACFD884BE54F674@HP30910210001> References: <2F396907109C49319ACFD884BE54F674@HP30910210001> Message-ID: blindy.tv is very hit and miss. If you checked the site often, (something you probably don't have the time to do), I imagine you might find something to your liking. I wish they posted a schedule, or something. Best, Kirt On 5/16/13, melissa Green wrote: > I didn't find any tv shows that I liked on blindy.tv. > > Blessings, > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > Find me on: > Twitter melissa5674 > facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 8:35 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] audio described TV shows > > > While blindy.tv is a great site, there isn't a way to download shows or > documentaries from the site; it is by Internet stream only. Also, I looked > at the other site mentioned, listentomovies.com, and started listening to > two movies, Beauty and the Beast and Home Alone 3, but where they had plenty > > of chance to insert audio description, there was none. I suspect that there > > is no audio description on these movies. For that reason, I do not recommend > > the site. > My two cents? > Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 15, 2013, at 9:34 PM, Kaiti Shelton > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I don't know if you can download from them, but you can stream >> described tv shows from five channels at blindy.tv. I also was told >> about listentoamovie.com today, which has audio-only movies. I have >> yet to really explore that one, but from what I've seen it looks >> pretty good. >> >> On 5/15/13, Alexa Schwichow wrote: >>> Does anyone here know of a website other than blind mice mart where I >>> can >>> download audio described TV shows? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 17 07:40:22 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 00:40:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <321D1DA9-55D5-4759-8C14-AAF56C9693F2@gmail.com> Couldn't say for sure .. We probably had at least 10 I'm sure more This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device. On May 16, 2013, at 9:32 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > How many people participated? > Arielle > > On 5/16/13, Darian Smith wrote: >> Unfortunately tonight's call was not recorded. >> Hopefully we can get them to be for those who can't make it. >> this kind of call was actually one that was probably best experienced >> when one could interact. Hopefully we'll have another one like that in >> the future. >> >> On May 16, 2013, at 9:01 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> When was the call? >>> Was it recorded? >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith >>> [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:47 PM >>> To: North Carolina Association of blind students; Arizona Association of >>> blind students; Kentucky Association of blind students; Virginia >>> Association of blind students; Maryland Association of blind students; >>> Ohio Association of blind students; West Virginia Association of blind >>> students; New York Association of blind students; New Hampshire >>> Association of blind students; New Jersey Association of blind students; >>> Illinois Association of blind students; Colorado Association of Blind >>> Students; Texas Association of blind students; New Mexico Association of >>> Blind Students; Georgia Association of blind students; Louisiana >>> Association of blind students; fabs at nfbnet.org; Massachusetts Association >>> of blind students; Tennessee Association of blind students; Minnesota >>> Association of blind students; National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list; List for NABS State Presidents; cabs-talk blind students; >>> Michigan Association of blind students; Wisconsin Association of blind >>> students; Nebraska Association of blind students; Missouri Association of >>> Blind Students; Alabama Association of blind students; Utah Association of >>> blind students >>> Cc: Pam Allen >>> Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>> >>> Greetings Federation family, >>> I would like to take this opportunity to thank each of you for making >>> this philosophy call a wonderful success. >>> We talked about a lot of great things and asked a lot of important >>> questions which were only limited by time (we all have places to go in the >>> morning, of course). >>> I would like to Thank Pam Allen and Anil Lewis for spending their time >>> and sharing their wisdom with us, as they communicated their experiences/ >>> shared their love for the federation and support for NABS. >>> >>> Words cannot express the excitement and energy i felt from you all, and >>> I Thank you for spending over two hours learning, giving and gaining. >>> The truth is, we all are a part of this great movement and together >>> we can do exceptional things. Hopefully, we never forget this. >>> If for some reason we do, we have friends, family in the federation that >>> will remind us, and stand with us as we push for personal success, and >>> full independence for the blind. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> Darian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri May 17 13:33:34 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 09:33:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] audio described TV shows In-Reply-To: References: <2F396907109C49319ACFD884BE54F674@HP30910210001> Message-ID: There actually is a schedule for each channel except Brain. If you go to the Listen Now table on the main page, clicking on the name of each channel will bring you to a page that includes a precise schedule. The only drawback is that it can be hard to hear your screenreader on that page because the channel will start playing there, too. I found that visiting the channel pages on my iPhone is better than on my computer because my phone won't let the channel start playing through the webpage. The schedules are wonderfully helpful, though, and I hope you will feel the same. -Jewel Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2013, at 12:38 AM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > blindy.tv is very hit and miss. If you checked the site often, > (something you probably don't have the time to do), I imagine you > might find something to your liking. I wish they posted a schedule, > or something. > Best, > Kirt > > On 5/16/13, melissa Green wrote: >> I didn't find any tv shows that I liked on blindy.tv. >> >> Blessings, >> Sincerely, >> Melissa and Pj >> Find me on: >> Twitter melissa5674 >> facebook Melissa R Green >> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 8:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] audio described TV shows >> >> >> While blindy.tv is a great site, there isn't a way to download shows or >> documentaries from the site; it is by Internet stream only. Also, I looked >> at the other site mentioned, listentomovies.com, and started listening to >> two movies, Beauty and the Beast and Home Alone 3, but where they had plenty >> >> of chance to insert audio description, there was none. I suspect that there >> >> is no audio description on these movies. For that reason, I do not recommend >> >> the site. >> My two cents? >> Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 15, 2013, at 9:34 PM, Kaiti Shelton >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I don't know if you can download from them, but you can stream >>> described tv shows from five channels at blindy.tv. I also was told >>> about listentoamovie.com today, which has audio-only movies. I have >>> yet to really explore that one, but from what I've seen it looks >>> pretty good. >>> >>> On 5/15/13, Alexa Schwichow wrote: >>>> Does anyone here know of a website other than blind mice mart where I >>>> can >>>> download audio described TV shows? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 17 19:48:42 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 12:48:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Roomate request. Message-ID: Hi All, I have been asked by a friend to help them find roommates for this years national convention in Orlando. They are looking for two roommates ( preferably one male and one female, , but at the end of the day they are not really picky on that detail). they need folks who are cool with Guide dogs and generally easygoing. My understanding is that they are planning to bring a friend, so the ideal is to have four folks in a room. If you are in need of a roommate, and this arrangement sounds like something that would work for you, please drop me an e-mail at dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thanks! Darian. From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 17 20:04:38 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 13:04:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting an I-phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <233C148F-ED03-4A3F-9B3B-DC70A9357FE2@gmail.com> Hi Helga, I would probably suggest going to an apple store and checking out both the 4S and the 5. that way you can see what the differences are to you. The only things that seem to be different is that the 5 is thinner and longer than the 4S. But I would really just try to see about going to something like an apple store. Where the folks there know how to set up the accessibility functions of the phone so you can play around with it. I have found folks at the store are paitiont with you are very nice, so it's a god experience. best of luck finding the phone you want! Darian On May 15, 2013, at 1:25 PM, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hi all, this is Helga. I’m thinking in getting an I-phone this summer on July, due to the fact, that my contract is going to be over. I actually have a sansansung that has the mobile Speak feature, but namany people recommend me an I-phone because it has more advantages. As a matter of fact, I was thinking in connecting my BrailleNote device to the I-phone in order to display in Braille what’s on the screen. In fact, I was thinking in bying an I-phone 5 , What do you recommend me? Do you think an I-phone 5 is good for me? Thank you so much and God bless! > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com Fri May 17 21:23:05 2013 From: trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com (Winona Brackett) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 17:23:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blindmicemart.com Message-ID: Hello All, I have heard that you can get free descriptive video mp3 downloads from blindmicemart.com, but I can't seem to find a link or heading to the movie valt. (I use Jaws 14 and sometimes when Jaws doesn't cooperate, I use NVDA.) Does anyone know how to use blindmicemart.com? Thanks, Winona From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri May 17 21:50:11 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 17:50:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blindmicemart.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61DF0368-81E1-4362-92BE-FF5EDB84E50F@gmail.com> Hi, I love the Blind Mice Movie Vault! However, in order to gain access to the movie vault, you need to register. Since you are not yet registered, on the main page, press insert +F7 to go into the links list. Press N and you will get Not a Blind Mice member yet? Enter on that and register. Return to the main page, open the links list again and press B twice. Press enter and login. It will return you to the main page logged in, and in the links list, press B six times until you hear Blind Mice Movie Vault. Enter there and you will be in the movie vault! From there, you can browse by letter or search the movies, as well as view the latest to be added. Once you select a movie, it will open a new window. Open your links list again and press C twice for Click here to download... "it will ask you to open or save; I always save first. Save the movie where you want it, then open and enjoy as it plays in your default media player! If you have a Victor Reader Stream, you can put the movies in the music folder and listen to your downloaded movies wherever you go. Have fun, Jewel Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2013, at 5:23 PM, Winona Brackett wrote: > Hello All, > > I have heard that you can get free descriptive video mp3 downloads > from blindmicemart.com, but I can't seem to find a link or heading to > the movie valt. (I use Jaws 14 and sometimes when Jaws doesn't > cooperate, I use NVDA.) Does anyone know how to use blindmicemart.com? > > Thanks, > Winona > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri May 17 21:52:11 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 17:52:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blindmicemart.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529E9842-5218-472C-B3CD-B01F316AC6C7@gmail.com> Oh, it's now the blind mice megamall. www.blindmicemegamall.com Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2013, at 5:23 PM, Winona Brackett wrote: > Hello All, > > I have heard that you can get free descriptive video mp3 downloads > from blindmicemart.com, but I can't seem to find a link or heading to > the movie valt. (I use Jaws 14 and sometimes when Jaws doesn't > cooperate, I use NVDA.) Does anyone know how to use blindmicemart.com? > > Thanks, > Winona > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Sat May 18 01:48:06 2013 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 18:48:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NVDA screen reader News: Announcing the Release of NVDA 2013.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008b01ce5369$bf20c370$3d624a50$@gmail.com> -----Original Message----- From: Nvda-announce [mailto:nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org] On Behalf Of NVDA announcement list Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 6:38 PM To: nvda-announce at lists.nvaccess.org Subject: NVDA screen reader News: Announcing the Release of NVDA 2013.1 2013.1, the latest release of the free NVDA screen reading software, is now available from NV Access for anyone to download. Highlights of this release include a more intuitive and consistent laptop keyboard layout; basic support for Microsoft PowerPoint; support for long descriptions in web browsers; and support for input of computer braille for braille displays which have a braille keyboard. NVDA is used by 10s of thousands of blind and vision impaired people spanning more than 120 countries, enabling them to socialize, get an education, and participate in the workforce -- things that may not have been possible previously for those who could not afford other expensive screen reading solutions. To download a copy, please visit http://www.nvaccess.org/download *** Heard about our new Website? *** We just launched our new, improved website at http://www.nvaccess.org. We have revamped the site to better tell our story, in order to raise much needed funds to keep NVDA going. nvaccess.org will be the central online presence for NV Access and NVDA now. It brings together content from our previous websites in a much more streamlined way. You can download NVDA at nvaccess.org/download from now on. And to access development, translation and other community related content you can follow the "community" link in the footer. This link will take you to http://community.nvda-project.org/ On the home page of our new website, http://www.nvaccess.org, you will be able to play a video called "Our Mission", which tells the NVDA story. We would really appreciate it if you could share a link to this video with your friends and family, letting them know how NVDA has helped you, and telling them that donations will help us to keep NVDA going. Any donation, big or small, makes a difference to us and we thank you in advance. Of course, if you know any companies who might be in a position to sponsor us, definitely pass the video link on and have them get in touch with us. Thanks again everyone for your fantastic loyalty and support, which makes what we do so rewarding. A direct link to the video on Youtube, if you need it, is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOQ7zELFmLE Thanks for your support. Please consider donating to NV Access to support NVDA's continued development: http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate -- This is the NVDA announcement mailing list. To unsubscribe or edit your options, please visit: http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-announce From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Sat May 18 01:48:31 2013 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel Wheeler) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 20:48:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] creating and managing a blog using bloodspot, accessibility? Message-ID: <0C0B21CD-E668-4519-B09E-9C54FB07608E@gmail.com> Hi all, So I'm going to study abroad in Europe for a month, and want to keep a blog. I'm having trouble figuring out the best blogging site as far as accessibility goes, and have decided on blogspot.com operated by google because it appears to be decent. I can't figure out how to post a blog though, and was wondering how well people can access and post blog enteries there? I'm using voiceover on my mac for what it's worth, so any of you voiceover users who have blogspot.com blogs, your help is appreciated. Thanks Laurel From dandrews at visi.com Sat May 18 02:32:54 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 21:32:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NVDA screen reader News: Announcing the Release of NVDA 2013.1 Message-ID: > >2013.1, the latest release of the free NVDA screen reading software, >is now available from NV Access for anyone to download. > >Highlights of this release include a more intuitive and consistent >laptop keyboard layout; basic support for Microsoft PowerPoint; >support for long descriptions in web browsers; and support for input >of computer braille for braille displays which have a braille keyboard. > >NVDA is used by 10s of thousands of blind and vision impaired people >spanning more than 120 countries, enabling them to socialize, get an >education, and participate in the workforce -- things that may not >have been possible previously for those who could not afford other >expensive screen reading solutions. > >To download a copy, please visit http://www.nvaccess.org/download > >*** Heard about our new Website? *** > >We just launched our new, improved website at >http://www.nvaccess.org. We have revamped the site to better tell >our story, in order to raise much needed funds to keep NVDA going. >nvaccess.org will be the central online presence for NV Access and >NVDA now. It brings together content from our previous websites in a >much more streamlined way. You can download NVDA at >nvaccess.org/download from now on. And to access development, >translation and other community related content you can follow the >"community" link in the footer. This link will take you to >http://community.nvda-project.org/ > >On the home page of our new website, http://www.nvaccess.org, you >will be able to play a video called "Our Mission", which tells the >NVDA story. We would really appreciate it if you could share a link >to this video with your friends and family, letting them know how >NVDA has helped you, and telling them that donations will help us to >keep NVDA going. Any donation, big or small, makes a difference to >us and we thank you in advance. Of course, if you know any companies >who might be in a position to sponsor us, definitely pass the video >link on and have them get in touch with us. Thanks again everyone >for your fantastic loyalty and support, which makes what we do so >rewarding. A direct link to the video on Youtube, if you need it, >is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOQ7zELFmLE > >Thanks for your support. > > >Please consider donating to NV Access to support NVDA's continued development: >http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate From kwakmiso at aol.com Sat May 18 06:12:38 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 02:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] An Article about Blind Pole-vault athletes In-Reply-To: <0C0B21CD-E668-4519-B09E-9C54FB07608E@gmail.com> References: <0C0B21CD-E668-4519-B09E-9C54FB07608E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D021A5D4B65350-1D94-42A17@webmail-m220.sysops.aol.com> Hi all, Some of you may have read this already but I wanted to share it. http://wap.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/sports/blind-athletes-treat-pole-vault-like-any-other-hurdle.html Miso Kwak From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Sat May 18 13:58:29 2013 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 08:58:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE Message-ID: H ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer afford a phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There is such a free phone program that I am ineligible for). My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. Thank you. DEB MENDELSOHN -- * * From djd76257 at gmail.com Sat May 18 17:10:25 2013 From: djd76257 at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 13:10:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if people want it. From leyeshprintse at ymail.com Sat May 18 17:24:06 2013 From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 19:24:06 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] creating and managing a blog using bloodspot, accessibility? In-Reply-To: <0C0B21CD-E668-4519-B09E-9C54FB07608E@gmail.com> References: <0C0B21CD-E668-4519-B09E-9C54FB07608E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F09F659-CF47-430C-89AB-8647CB46DC87@ymail.com> BS"D Laurel, Welcome to Europe! I hope you'll enjoy your time here! Where will you study and when? I've no problems using BlogSpot.com on my iPad Mini with VoiceOver. I've not tested it out on my MacBook Air yet, I've not clued out how to nevigate on the Internet yet. If someone know a guide how to use a MacBook with VoiceOver I would be thankful, I'm a longtime Jaws user. Kind regards, Leye-Shprintse Envoyé de mon iPad 18 maj 2013 kl. 03:48 skrev Laurel Wheeler : Hi all, So I'm going to study abroad in Europe for a month, and want to keep a blog. I'm having trouble figuring out the best blogging site as far as accessibility goes, and have decided on blogspot.com operated by google because it appears to be decent. I can't figure out how to post a blog though, and was wondering how well people can access and post blog enteries there? I'm using voiceover on my mac for what it's worth, so any of you voiceover users who have blogspot.com blogs, your help is appreciated. Thanks Laurel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse%40ymail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat May 18 18:19:15 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 14:19:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <659978483648763213@unknownmsgid> Please send that to me. Thanks, Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 18, 2013, at 1:13 PM, David Dunphy wrote: > I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if people want it. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Sat May 18 18:34:46 2013 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 12:34:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <659978483648763213@unknownmsgid> References: <659978483648763213@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: I'd love to hear it. On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 12:19 PM, christopher nusbaum < dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote: > Please send that to me. > > Thanks, > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 18, 2013, at 1:13 PM, David Dunphy wrote: > > > I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if > people want it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Sat May 18 19:57:23 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 14:57:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Message-ID: <5197dd51.c17aec0a.14d0.ffffa0fc@mx.google.com> And me! ----- Original Message ----- From: christopher nusbaum wrote: I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if people want it. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat May 18 19:59:50 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 12:59:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible Message-ID: Hello, I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You know that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing through notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, that is super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one application and just use hot keys to move between documents. You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual viewer. to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 He is also open to suggestions for features. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs From: John Martyn Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org ; spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We now have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in many of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word and has many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, OneNote is a virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, sections within the notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a phenomenal tool to organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one program and all accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up several word documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, everything is on the same screen. Because of the amazing features, we decided to script OneNote and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully accessible to the visually impaired and blind users! We are absolutely positive this will be a tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to navigate through notebooks, sections, and pages. You can scroll through all of your notes with just the touch of the tab key. We are confident OneNote Blind will make your life easier and make your notes more organized and easy to access. Please visit the site at: www.OneNoteBlind.com John Martyn From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Sat May 18 20:04:48 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 16:04:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello David, it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that the call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for you to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to distribute it to other people. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "David Dunphy" Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if > people want it. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat May 18 20:07:27 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 13:07:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, sorry for the multiple emails, but I forgot to say the most important feature: One note saves in real time, so you never have to hit ctrl S to save. after every key you hit it saves. There is also a misc. folder that you can throw all your junk like the schedule you try to follow each day and your list of things to do. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible Hello, I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You know that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing through notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, that is super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one application and just use hot keys to move between documents. You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual viewer. to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 He is also open to suggestions for features. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs From: John Martyn Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org ; spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We now have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in many of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word and has many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, OneNote is a virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, sections within the notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a phenomenal tool to organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one program and all accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up several word documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, everything is on the same screen. Because of the amazing features, we decided to script OneNote and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully accessible to the visually impaired and blind users! We are absolutely positive this will be a tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to navigate through notebooks, sections, and pages. You can scroll through all of your notes with just the touch of the tab key. We are confident OneNote Blind will make your life easier and make your notes more organized and easy to access. Please visit the site at: www.OneNoteBlind.com John Martyn From djd76257 at gmail.com Sat May 18 20:27:21 2013 From: djd76257 at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 16:27:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him and the membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've recorded it or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the call. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > Hello David, > > it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of > these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that the > call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for you > to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to > record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to > distribute it to other people. > > Elizabeth > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "David Dunphy" > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > >> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >> people want it. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com From djd76257 at gmail.com Sat May 18 20:28:14 2013 From: djd76257 at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 16:28:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <5197dd51.c17aec0a.14d0.ffffa0fc@mx.google.com> References: <5197dd51.c17aec0a.14d0.ffffa0fc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6CF334260B9A48ACB66CE55AEF3EA86D@WildJasmine> Send me your email addresses off list and I'll get it to you. If the entiree list should get iit, then Darrian can request I do it. That's one of the new things now, I don't post links and such unless given permison to do so. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > And me! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: christopher nusbaum To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 18 May 2013 14:19:15 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > > Please send that to me. > > Thanks, > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 18, 2013, at 1:13 PM, David Dunphy wrote: > > I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if > people want it. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat May 18 20:43:46 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 16:43:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blindaccessible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <277483636DCA4F49A33294ECE2FF77AA@OwnerPC> glad to hear its accessible. I have this as part of the microsoft package but did not know what it did or how to use it. Now that its accessible, I'll look into it. Does it have templates or categories for you to write notes in? -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blindaccessible Hello, sorry for the multiple emails, but I forgot to say the most important feature: One note saves in real time, so you never have to hit ctrl S to save. after every key you hit it saves. There is also a misc. folder that you can throw all your junk like the schedule you try to follow each day and your list of things to do. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible Hello, I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You know that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing through notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, that is super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one application and just use hot keys to move between documents. You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual viewer. to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 He is also open to suggestions for features. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs From: John Martyn Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org ; spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We now have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in many of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word and has many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, OneNote is a virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, sections within the notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a phenomenal tool to organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one program and all accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up several word documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, everything is on the same screen. Because of the amazing features, we decided to script OneNote and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully accessible to the visually impaired and blind users! We are absolutely positive this will be a tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to navigate through notebooks, sections, and pages. You can scroll through all of your notes with just the touch of the tab key. We are confident OneNote Blind will make your life easier and make your notes more organized and easy to access. Please visit the site at: www.OneNoteBlind.com John Martyn _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat May 18 20:45:30 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 14:45:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04EDFBAB-3053-457D-A55C-FDA0AFAE6823@gmail.com> Hi Brandon, I don't mean to be cynical, this does actually sound very potentially useful. Still, I'm wondering if it's worth the $50 price tag for those of us who already have pretty effective notetaking solutions? Incidentally, you don't need to use alt tab To move between Microsoft Word documents. Control 1, Control2, Control 3 Etc. does the same thing… And it doesn't cost me 50 extra dollars. :-) Sent from my iPhone On May 18, 2013, at 2:07 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > sorry for the multiple emails, but I forgot to say the most important feature: > One note saves in real time, so you never have to hit ctrl S to save. after every key you hit it saves. > There is also a misc. folder that you can throw all your junk like the schedule you try to follow each day and your list of things to do. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible > > Hello, > I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You know that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing through notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, that is super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one application and just use hot keys to move between documents. > You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual viewer. > to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! > http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 > > He is also open to suggestions for features. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > From: John Martyn > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM > To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org ; spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org > Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible > > As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We now have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in many of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word and has many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, OneNote is a virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, sections within the notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a phenomenal tool to organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one program and all accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up several word documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, everything is on the same screen. Because of the amazing features, we decided to script OneNote and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully accessible to the visually impaired and blind users! We are absolutely positive this will be a tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to navigate through notebooks, sections, and pages. You can scroll through all of your notes with just the touch of the tab key. We are confident OneNote Blind will make your life easier and make your notes more organized and easy to access. > > Please visit the site at: > > www.OneNoteBlind.com > > John Martyn > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat May 18 20:46:30 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 16:46:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> Message-ID: <3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> David, Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and also record the nabs calls. I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via the computer and phone lines. I'll send you a note off list to get the file. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: David Dunphy Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him and the membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've recorded it or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the call. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > Hello David, > > it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of > these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that the > call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for you > to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to > record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to > distribute it to other people. > > Elizabeth > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "David Dunphy" > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > >> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >> people want it. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat May 18 20:50:38 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 14:50:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blindaccessible In-Reply-To: <277483636DCA4F49A33294ECE2FF77AA@OwnerPC> References: <277483636DCA4F49A33294ECE2FF77AA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, To my understanding, it's only accessible with a third-party script that costs $50. That could very well be a worthwhile investment for some of us but I personally need a little more convincing that it's really worth it before I spend the money. Sent from my iPhone On May 18, 2013, at 2:43 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > glad to hear its accessible. > I have this as part of the microsoft package but did not know what it did or how to use it. Now that its accessible, I'll look into it. > Does it have templates or categories for you to write notes in? > > -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blindaccessible > > Hello, > sorry for the multiple emails, but I forgot to say the most important feature: > One note saves in real time, so you never have to hit ctrl S to save. after every key you hit it saves. > There is also a misc. folder that you can throw all your junk like the schedule you try to follow each day and your list of things to do. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible > > Hello, > I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You know that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing through notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, that is super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one application and just use hot keys to move between documents. > You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual viewer. > to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! > http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 > > He is also open to suggestions for features. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > From: John Martyn > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM > To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org ; spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org > Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible > > As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We now have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in many of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word and has many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, OneNote is a virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, sections within the notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a phenomenal tool to organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one program and all accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up several word documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, everything is on the same screen. Because of the amazing features, we decided to script OneNote and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully accessible to the visually impaired and blind users! We are absolutely positive this will be a tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to navigate through notebooks, sections, and pages. You can scroll through all of your notes with just the touch of the tab key. We are confident OneNote Blind will make your life easier and make your notes more organized and easy to access. > > Please visit the site at: > > www.OneNoteBlind.com > > John Martyn > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat May 18 20:56:09 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 13:56:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote nowblindaccessible In-Reply-To: <277483636DCA4F49A33294ECE2FF77AA@OwnerPC> References: <277483636DCA4F49A33294ECE2FF77AA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <099B54BFCDC04C359F1153107025ADA2@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I'm not sure, but the whole thing is a template that is very easy to format. Listen to the podcast and it should answer a lot of questions. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:43 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote nowblindaccessible glad to hear its accessible. I have this as part of the microsoft package but did not know what it did or how to use it. Now that its accessible, I'll look into it. Does it have templates or categories for you to write notes in? -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blindaccessible Hello, sorry for the multiple emails, but I forgot to say the most important feature: One note saves in real time, so you never have to hit ctrl S to save. after every key you hit it saves. There is also a misc. folder that you can throw all your junk like the schedule you try to follow each day and your list of things to do. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible Hello, I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You know that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing through notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, that is super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one application and just use hot keys to move between documents. You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual viewer. to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 He is also open to suggestions for features. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs From: John Martyn Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org ; spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We now have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in many of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word and has many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, OneNote is a virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, sections within the notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a phenomenal tool to organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one program and all accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up several word documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, everything is on the same screen. Because of the amazing features, we decided to script OneNote and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully accessible to the visually impaired and blind users! We are absolutely positive this will be a tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to navigate through notebooks, sections, and pages. You can scroll through all of your notes with just the touch of the tab key. We are confident OneNote Blind will make your life easier and make your notes more organized and easy to access. Please visit the site at: www.OneNoteBlind.com John Martyn _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat May 18 21:00:53 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 14:00:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blindaccessible In-Reply-To: <04EDFBAB-3053-457D-A55C-FDA0AFAE6823@gmail.com> References: <04EDFBAB-3053-457D-A55C-FDA0AFAE6823@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, I have an extremely affective way of taking notes as well, but even still, I find the options and possibilities this has very exciting. The most amazing feature is the real-time saving feature. The task recovery pain is nice, but not as nice as this. I know there are other features I don't know about and I need to install 1 note, but I've asked the developer lots of questions and listened to the podcast and I'm going to get one note as soon as I go back to my parents for the summer. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blindaccessible Hi Brandon, I don't mean to be cynical, this does actually sound very potentially useful. Still, I'm wondering if it's worth the $50 price tag for those of us who already have pretty effective notetaking solutions? Incidentally, you don't need to use alt tab To move between Microsoft Word documents. Control 1, Control2, Control 3 Etc. does the same thing… And it doesn't cost me 50 extra dollars. :-) Sent from my iPhone On May 18, 2013, at 2:07 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > sorry for the multiple emails, but I forgot to say the most important > feature: > One note saves in real time, so you never have to hit ctrl S to save. > after every key you hit it saves. > There is also a misc. folder that you can throw all your junk like the > schedule you try to follow each day and your list of things to do. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible > > Hello, > I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You know > that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing > through notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, > that is super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one > application and just use hot keys to move between documents. > You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual > viewer. > to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! > http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 > > He is also open to suggestions for features. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > From: John Martyn > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM > To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org ; > spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org > Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible > > As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new > script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We > now have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in > many of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word > and has many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, > OneNote is a virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, > sections within the notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a > phenomenal tool to organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one > program and all accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up > several word documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, > everything is on the same screen. Because of the amazing features, we > decided to script OneNote and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully > accessible to the visually impaired and blind users! We are absolutely > positive this will be a tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to > navigate through notebooks, sections, and pages. You can scroll through > all of your notes with just the touch of the tab key. We are confident > OneNote Blind will make your life easier and make your notes more > organized and easy to access. > > Please visit the site at: > > www.OneNoteBlind.com > > John Martyn > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat May 18 21:15:21 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 17:15:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote nowblindaccessible In-Reply-To: References: <277483636DCA4F49A33294ECE2FF77AA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Kirt, good point. Since I usually only have a handful of documents open at once, using the command control f 6 to jump between files works okay for me. It does not seem reasonable to pay extra when we already spend hundreds on the microsoft suite. I got mine as a discount, but still, I think it was over a hundred dollars. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote nowblindaccessible Ashley, To my understanding, it's only accessible with a third-party script that costs $50. That could very well be a worthwhile investment for some of us but I personally need a little more convincing that it's really worth it before I spend the money. Sent from my iPhone On May 18, 2013, at 2:43 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > glad to hear its accessible. > I have this as part of the microsoft package but did not know what it did > or how to use it. Now that its accessible, I'll look into it. > Does it have templates or categories for you to write notes in? > > -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now > blindaccessible > > Hello, > sorry for the multiple emails, but I forgot to say the most important > feature: > One note saves in real time, so you never have to hit ctrl S to save. > after every key you hit it saves. > There is also a misc. folder that you can throw all your junk like the > schedule you try to follow each day and your list of things to do. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible > > Hello, > I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You know > that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing > through notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, > that is super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one > application and just use hot keys to move between documents. > You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual > viewer. > to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! > http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 > > He is also open to suggestions for features. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > From: John Martyn > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM > To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org ; > spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org > Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible > > As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new > script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We > now have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in > many of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word > and has many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, > OneNote is a virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, > sections within the notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a > phenomenal tool to organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one > program and all accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up > several word documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, > everything is on the same screen. Because of the amazing features, we > decided to script OneNote and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully > accessible to the visually impaired and blind users! We are absolutely > positive this will be a tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to > navigate through notebooks, sections, and pages. You can scroll through > all of your notes with just the touch of the tab key. We are confident > OneNote Blind will make your life easier and make your notes more > organized and easy to access. > > Please visit the site at: > > www.OneNoteBlind.com > > John Martyn > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat May 18 21:15:26 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 15:15:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> <3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi all, I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be withheld from the membership for this reason. Arielle On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > David, > Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and also > record the nabs calls. > I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? > If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via the > computer and phone lines. > > I'll send you a note off list to get the file. > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dunphy > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > > Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him and the > membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've recorded it > or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the > call. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > > >> Hello David, >> >> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of >> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that the >> >> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for you >> >> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to >> distribute it to other people. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "David Dunphy" >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>> people want it. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat May 18 21:49:19 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 15:49:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote nowblindaccessible In-Reply-To: References: <277483636DCA4F49A33294ECE2FF77AA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Brandon, Podcasts and information coming directly from a developer are fantastic, and I'm honestly not trying to minimize that. Still, I'm going to wait until I get a few realistic reviews from people who have actually use this thing for a little while. I'm also very skeptical of software that doesn't give me some sort of trial option before I purchase. Sent from my iPhone On May 18, 2013, at 3:15 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Kirt, > good point. Since I usually only have a handful of documents open at once, > using the command control f 6 to jump between files works okay for me. > It does not seem reasonable to pay extra when we already spend hundreds on the microsoft suite. > > I got mine as a discount, but still, I think it was over a hundred dollars. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote nowblindaccessible > > Ashley, > To my understanding, it's only accessible with a third-party script that costs $50. That could very well be a worthwhile investment for some of us but I personally need a little more convincing that it's really worth it before I spend the money. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 18, 2013, at 2:43 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > >> glad to hear its accessible. >> I have this as part of the microsoft package but did not know what it did or how to use it. Now that its accessible, I'll look into it. >> Does it have templates or categories for you to write notes in? >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:07 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blindaccessible >> >> Hello, >> sorry for the multiple emails, but I forgot to say the most important feature: >> One note saves in real time, so you never have to hit ctrl S to save. after every key you hit it saves. >> There is also a misc. folder that you can throw all your junk like the schedule you try to follow each day and your list of things to do. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> >> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible >> >> Hello, >> I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You know that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing through notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, that is super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one application and just use hot keys to move between documents. >> You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual viewer. >> to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! >> http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 >> >> He is also open to suggestions for features. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> >> From: John Martyn >> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM >> To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org ; spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org >> Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible >> >> As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We now have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in many of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word and has many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, OneNote is a virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, sections within the notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a phenomenal tool to organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one program and all accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up several word documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, everything is on the same screen. Because of the amazing features, we decided to script OneNote and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully accessible to the visually impaired and blind users! We are absolutely positive this will be a tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to navigate through notebooks, sections, and pages. You can scroll through all of your notes with just the touch of the tab key. We are confident OneNote Blind will make your life easier and make your notes more organized and easy to access. >> >> Please visit the site at: >> >> www.OneNoteBlind.com >> >> John Martyn >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From djd76257 at gmail.com Sat May 18 21:58:23 2013 From: djd76257 at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 17:58:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine><3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Well if I could add to that, I've been asked to let membership committee members post all the links instead of me doing it. So it's really out of my hands regarding the posting. From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Sat May 18 22:29:14 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 18:29:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> Message-ID: Hello David, I am just mentioning this because from what I recall from the conference call, it did not appear as though there were any prior arrangements to stream and record the conference call. The comment I heard made it seemed as though it would be up to the guest speaker as to whether or not this should be done. Since the guest speaker came into the conference call rather late, I do not believe she knew that the conference call was being recorded. With this in mind, I would think the respectable thing to do would be to make her aware of this and receive her permission before distributing a recording of the conference call out to other people. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "David Dunphy" Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him and > the membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've > recorded it or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made > clear on the call. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > > >> Hello David, >> >> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of >> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that the >> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for >> you to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to >> distribute it to other people. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "David Dunphy" >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>> people want it. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Sat May 18 22:39:26 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 18:39:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine><3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hello Arielle, I was just making some comments based on what I have observed in participating in the conference calls. I have noticed that not all of the conference calls are recorded, and this lack of consistency seems to be a bit of an issue of concern with the membership committee. Since not everyone was on the conference call at the beginning of the call, including the guest speaker, and there were no prior announcements regarding the fact that the call was going to be recorded, I think it would only be respectable to receive permission from the guest speaker before distributing a recording of this call out to other people. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arielle Silverman" Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:15 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > Hi all, > I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed > live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. > So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or > permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made > multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will > always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the > call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be > withheld from the membership for this reason. > Arielle > > On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> David, >> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and also >> record the nabs calls. >> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via the >> computer and phone lines. >> >> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Dunphy >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him and >> the >> membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've recorded >> it >> or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the >> call. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> >>> Hello David, >>> >>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of >>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >>> the >>> >>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for >>> you >>> >>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to >>> distribute it to other people. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "David Dunphy" >>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>> >>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>>> people want it. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From dwebster125 at gmail.com Sat May 18 22:50:14 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 15:50:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine><3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <8F0B28C596E54133AB6F39C6CEDE85BC@OWNERPC> Hello its Dave. Most of you may or may not remember me but I was on the call and I'd be interested in having a copy of that call. I loved it. I thought it was great. I really really enjoyed heering from pam again. this may be off topic but I thought about possibly attending the louisiana center again because when I went in 97 I had some problems with depression and alcohol and various things. I also wasn't familiar with the federation and its pholosophy. I am proud to say now that I believe in its philosophy. Unfortunately there isn't a chapter in my area. there is but its kind of far so. I'm from California by the way. If any of you want to talk to me about going to lcb again and how I might be able to talk to pam feel free. thanks. do let me know about the call. I'm defenitely interested in having it. -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Mohnke Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 3:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Hello Arielle, I was just making some comments based on what I have observed in participating in the conference calls. I have noticed that not all of the conference calls are recorded, and this lack of consistency seems to be a bit of an issue of concern with the membership committee. Since not everyone was on the conference call at the beginning of the call, including the guest speaker, and there were no prior announcements regarding the fact that the call was going to be recorded, I think it would only be respectable to receive permission from the guest speaker before distributing a recording of this call out to other people. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arielle Silverman" Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:15 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > Hi all, > I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed > live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. > So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or > permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made > multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will > always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the > call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be > withheld from the membership for this reason. > Arielle > > On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> David, >> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and also >> record the nabs calls. >> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via the >> computer and phone lines. >> >> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Dunphy >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him and >> the >> membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've recorded >> it >> or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the >> call. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> >>> Hello David, >>> >>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of >>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >>> the >>> >>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for >>> you >>> >>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to >>> distribute it to other people. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "David Dunphy" >>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>> >>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>>> people want it. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat May 18 23:48:40 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 19:48:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <8F0B28C596E54133AB6F39C6CEDE85BC@OWNERPC> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine><3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> <8F0B28C596E54133AB6F39C6CEDE85BC@OWNERPC> Message-ID: <006101ce5422$3985bbd0$ac913370$@gmail.com> Dave, Pam's email address is pallen at lcb-ruston.com if you'd like to talk with her about attending the Center again. I hope you decide to do so. Hope this helps, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dave Webster Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 6:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Hello its Dave. Most of you may or may not remember me but I was on the call and I'd be interested in having a copy of that call. I loved it. I thought it was great. I really really enjoyed heering from pam again. this may be off topic but I thought about possibly attending the louisiana center again because when I went in 97 I had some problems with depression and alcohol and various things. I also wasn't familiar with the federation and its pholosophy. I am proud to say now that I believe in its philosophy. Unfortunately there isn't a chapter in my area. there is but its kind of far so. I'm from California by the way. If any of you want to talk to me about going to lcb again and how I might be able to talk to pam feel free. thanks. do let me know about the call. I'm defenitely interested in having it. -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Mohnke Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 3:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Hello Arielle, I was just making some comments based on what I have observed in participating in the conference calls. I have noticed that not all of the conference calls are recorded, and this lack of consistency seems to be a bit of an issue of concern with the membership committee. Since not everyone was on the conference call at the beginning of the call, including the guest speaker, and there were no prior announcements regarding the fact that the call was going to be recorded, I think it would only be respectable to receive permission from the guest speaker before distributing a recording of this call out to other people. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arielle Silverman" Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:15 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > Hi all, > I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed > live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. > So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or > permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made > multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will > always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the > call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be > withheld from the membership for this reason. > Arielle > > On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> David, >> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and >> also record the nabs calls. >> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via >> the computer and phone lines. >> >> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Dunphy >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him >> and the membership committee if you have issue with whether or not >> I've recorded it or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also >> made clear on the call. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> >>> Hello David, >>> >>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of >>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >>> the >>> >>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for >>> you >>> >>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to >>> distribute it to other people. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "David Dunphy" >>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>> >>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>>> people want it. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat May 18 23:56:06 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 19:56:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote nowblindaccessible In-Reply-To: References: <277483636DCA4F49A33294ECE2FF77AA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <006701ce5423$43bd6fc0$cb384f40$@gmail.com> Kirt, I agree there. I generally try to either ask other blind iOS users about an app or look it up on applevis.com before downloading it, especially if it's a paid app. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote nowblindaccessible Brandon, Podcasts and information coming directly from a developer are fantastic, and I'm honestly not trying to minimize that. Still, I'm going to wait until I get a few realistic reviews from people who have actually use this thing for a little while. I'm also very skeptical of software that doesn't give me some sort of trial option before I purchase. Sent from my iPhone On May 18, 2013, at 3:15 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Kirt, > good point. Since I usually only have a handful of documents open at > once, using the command control f 6 to jump between files works okay for me. > It does not seem reasonable to pay extra when we already spend hundreds on the microsoft suite. > > I got mine as a discount, but still, I think it was over a hundred dollars. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote > nowblindaccessible > > Ashley, > To my understanding, it's only accessible with a third-party script that costs $50. That could very well be a worthwhile investment for some of us but I personally need a little more convincing that it's really worth it before I spend the money. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 18, 2013, at 2:43 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > >> glad to hear its accessible. >> I have this as part of the microsoft package but did not know what it did or how to use it. Now that its accessible, I'll look into it. >> Does it have templates or categories for you to write notes in? >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:07 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now >> blindaccessible >> >> Hello, >> sorry for the multiple emails, but I forgot to say the most important feature: >> One note saves in real time, so you never have to hit ctrl S to save. after every key you hit it saves. >> There is also a misc. folder that you can throw all your junk like the schedule you try to follow each day and your list of things to do. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> >> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind >> accessible >> >> Hello, >> I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You know that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing through notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, that is super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one application and just use hot keys to move between documents. >> You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual viewer. >> to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! >> http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 >> >> He is also open to suggestions for features. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> >> From: John Martyn >> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM >> To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org >> ; spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org >> Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible >> >> As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We now have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in many of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word and has many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, OneNote is a virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, sections within the notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a phenomenal tool to organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one program and all accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up several word documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, everything is on the same screen. Because of the amazing features, we decided to script OneNote and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully accessible to the visually impaired and blind users! We are absolutely positive this will be a tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to navigate through notebooks, sections, and pages. You can scroll through all of your notes with just the touch of the tab key. We are confident OneNote Blind will make your life easier and make your notes more organized and easy to access. >> >> Please visit the site at: >> >> www.OneNoteBlind.com >> >> John Martyn >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >> thlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >> gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dwebster125 at gmail.com Sun May 19 00:00:27 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 17:00:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <006101ce5422$3985bbd0$ac913370$@gmail.com> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine><3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> <8F0B28C596E54133AB6F39C6CEDE85BC@OWNERPC> <006101ce5422$3985bbd0$ac913370$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks chris. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:48 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Dave, Pam's email address is pallen at lcb-ruston.com if you'd like to talk with her about attending the Center again. I hope you decide to do so. Hope this helps, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dave Webster Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 6:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Hello its Dave. Most of you may or may not remember me but I was on the call and I'd be interested in having a copy of that call. I loved it. I thought it was great. I really really enjoyed heering from pam again. this may be off topic but I thought about possibly attending the louisiana center again because when I went in 97 I had some problems with depression and alcohol and various things. I also wasn't familiar with the federation and its pholosophy. I am proud to say now that I believe in its philosophy. Unfortunately there isn't a chapter in my area. there is but its kind of far so. I'm from California by the way. If any of you want to talk to me about going to lcb again and how I might be able to talk to pam feel free. thanks. do let me know about the call. I'm defenitely interested in having it. -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Mohnke Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 3:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Hello Arielle, I was just making some comments based on what I have observed in participating in the conference calls. I have noticed that not all of the conference calls are recorded, and this lack of consistency seems to be a bit of an issue of concern with the membership committee. Since not everyone was on the conference call at the beginning of the call, including the guest speaker, and there were no prior announcements regarding the fact that the call was going to be recorded, I think it would only be respectable to receive permission from the guest speaker before distributing a recording of this call out to other people. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arielle Silverman" Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:15 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > Hi all, > I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed > live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. > So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or > permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made > multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will > always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the > call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be > withheld from the membership for this reason. > Arielle > > On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> David, >> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and >> also record the nabs calls. >> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via >> the computer and phone lines. >> >> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Dunphy >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him >> and the membership committee if you have issue with whether or not >> I've recorded it or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also >> made clear on the call. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> >>> Hello David, >>> >>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of >>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >>> the >>> >>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for >>> you >>> >>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to >>> distribute it to other people. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "David Dunphy" >>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>> >>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>>> people want it. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun May 19 00:06:51 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 18:06:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote nowblindaccessible In-Reply-To: <006701ce5423$43bd6fc0$cb384f40$@gmail.com> References: <277483636DCA4F49A33294ECE2FF77AA@OwnerPC> <006701ce5423$43bd6fc0$cb384f40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, and fifty dollars is doable for me, but not the kind of money I'd spend without some solid research to convince me I should do it. On 5/18/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Kirt, > > I agree there. I generally try to either ask other blind iOS users about an > app or look it up on applevis.com before downloading it, especially if it's > a paid app. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote > nowblindaccessible > > Brandon, > Podcasts and information coming directly from a developer are fantastic, > and > I'm honestly not trying to minimize that. Still, I'm going to wait until I > get a few realistic reviews from people who have actually use this thing > for > a little while. I'm also very skeptical of software that doesn't give me > some sort of trial option before I purchase. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 18, 2013, at 3:15 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Kirt, >> good point. Since I usually only have a handful of documents open at >> once, using the command control f 6 to jump between files works okay for > me. >> It does not seem reasonable to pay extra when we already spend hundreds >> on > the microsoft suite. >> >> I got mine as a discount, but still, I think it was over a hundred > dollars. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote >> nowblindaccessible >> >> Ashley, >> To my understanding, it's only accessible with a third-party script that > costs $50. That could very well be a worthwhile investment for some of us > but I personally need a little more convincing that it's really worth it > before I spend the money. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 18, 2013, at 2:43 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> > wrote: >> >>> glad to hear its accessible. >>> I have this as part of the microsoft package but did not know what it >>> did > or how to use it. Now that its accessible, I'll look into it. >>> Does it have templates or categories for you to write notes in? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs >>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:07 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now >>> blindaccessible >>> >>> Hello, >>> sorry for the multiple emails, but I forgot to say the most important > feature: >>> One note saves in real time, so you never have to hit ctrl S to save. > after every key you hit it saves. >>> There is also a misc. folder that you can throw all your junk like the > schedule you try to follow each day and your list of things to do. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> >>> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:59 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Fw: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind >>> accessible >>> >>> Hello, >>> I thought you note taking students would love to check this out. You >>> know > that feeling when you have over 20 word documents open, alt tabbing through > notes to write a paper? One note is a simulation of a notebook, that is > super accessible. Now you can have all your notes in one application and > just use hot keys to move between documents. >>> You can export your notes to a PDF, word and an interactable virtual > viewer. >>> to learn more, listen to his podcast and try it out! >>> http://www.OneNoteBlind.com/demo.mp3 >>> >>> He is also open to suggestions for features. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> >>> From: John Martyn >>> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:46 PM >>> To: The Jaws for Windows support list. ; blindtunesbeta at freelists.org >>> ; spotifyblindbeta at freelists.org ; jawsscripts at freelists.org >>> Subject: [spotifyblindbeta] Microsoft OneNote now blind accessible >>> >>> As we near the middle of 2013, Do It Blind is ecstatic to announce a new > script! We have been working long and hard on OneNote by Microsoft. We > now > have OneNote Blind! OneNote is a word processing program included in many > of the Microsoft Office packages. It is a great alternative to Word and > has > many different features which make life easy. In a nutshell, OneNote is a > virtual notebook. You can create different notebooks, sections within the > notebook, and pages within the sections. It is a phenomenal tool to > organize thoughts, letters, and projects all in one program and all > accessible from one screen. You no longer have to open up several word > documents and switch back and forth. With OneNote, everything is on the > same screen. Because of the amazing features, we decided to script OneNote > and create OneNote Blind. It is now fully accessible to the visually > impaired and blind users! We are absolutely positive this will be a > tremendous tool for blind people. It is easy to navigate through > notebooks, > sections, and pages. You can scroll through all of your notes with just > the > touch of the tab key. We are confident OneNote Blind will make your life > easier and make your notes more organized and easy to access. >>> >>> Please visit the site at: >>> >>> www.OneNoteBlind.com >>> >>> John Martyn >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>> thlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart >> hlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From djd76257 at gmail.com Sun May 19 01:41:15 2013 From: djd76257 at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 21:41:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] download link for the nabs may philosophy call In-Reply-To: References: <277483636DCA4F49A33294ECE2FF77AA@OwnerPC><006701ce5423$43bd6fc0$cb384f40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0D920866935E419F9B9D21E8E7CA0F29@WildJasmine> Hi All! Here's The Nabs 2013 Philosophy call recording. There's some chatter about nabs related topics and more while waiting for the speaker to show up, but it's good listening. The link is at http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/jr7d1h Enjoy! From carlymih at comcast.net Sun May 19 01:58:23 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 18:58:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130518185640.01c1c648@comcast.net> Hi, Elizabeth, and others, While if I myself were party to those calls, it would be taken for granted that said calls are recorded. However, if there does indeed exist a discrpency, the recordings ought not be distributed. Car, you wrote: >Hello David, > >it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the >recording of these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference >call know that the call was being recorded? If not, then I do not >believe it is right for you to infringe upon their privacy. If you >did not receive permission to record this conference call then I do >not believe you have the right to distribute it to other people. > >Elizabeth > >-------------------------------------------------- >From: "David Dunphy" >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > >>I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download >>if people want it. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Sun May 19 02:48:39 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 19:48:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> <3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130518194320.01c18b88@comcast.net> Hi, Arielle, Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a feat.One could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted during such calls. Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, simply because some people failed to see plans to post the call. for today, Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi all, >I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or >permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the >call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >withheld from the membership for this reason. >Arielle > >On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > > David, > > Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and also > > record the nabs calls. > > I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? > > If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via the > > computer and phone lines. > > > > I'll send you a note off list to get the file. > > Ashley > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Dunphy > > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > > > > Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him and the > > membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've recorded it > > or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the > > call. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > > > > > >> Hello David, > >> > >> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of > >> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that the > >> > >> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for you > >> > >> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to > >> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to > >> distribute it to other people. > >> > >> Elizabeth > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------- > >> From: "David Dunphy" > >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > >> > >>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if > >>> people want it. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sun May 19 05:49:29 2013 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 01:49:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What state do you live in? Does this pertain to a house or cell phone? I have a contact who can help you with a opportunity. It is involving Cell-phones. There is a way to make money offering people a new low-cost service while refering them online. Let me know if you are interested. Thanks, have a good day. Sent from my iPad On May 18, 2013, at 9:59 AM, "Deb Mendelsohn" wrote: > H > ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer afford a > phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There is such a > free phone program that I am ineligible for). > > My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. > > Thank you. > DEB MENDELSOHN > > -- > * > > * > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun May 19 07:19:05 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 00:19:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130518194320.01c18b88@comcast.net> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> <3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130518194320.01c18b88@comcast.net> Message-ID: <802F8BD6-4C9A-4C1A-9FFC-EB471B97939B@gmail.com> Hi all, I apologize for getting to this thread as last as I have, but today has been a long one, with A chapter meeting and a few other things. Let me first say that it is not the intention of NABS or the Membership committee to withhold information that can be useful to those we serve. For my part, I was not made aware that the call was going to be streamed or recorded, nor do I remember the participants of the call being given any heads-up that the call would be recorded. if the participants communicate that they are alright with the recording being distributed, then I think it's fine. I'll check with both the speakers of this call to make sure they are fie with it too. I feel the need to correct some misunderstandings as it relates to some of the NABS thought process regarding recordings. We feel that every program that we do should be aimed towards benefitting every student, and that anyone who wants to be a part of creating, running and supporting our programs should be welcomed to do so, because these programs are programs that belong to everyone. We see the NABS membership calls as a successful part of those programs and appreciate the hard work our committee members and guests put into it. an essential part of the success of these Calls is David Dunphy, as he generously gives of his time and resources to make sure that those who cannot join us on these informative confrence calls gets the chance to listen live via his stream, and after the event via recorded audio. In order to insure that each person takes advantage of these options, we ask that We simply be provided with confirmation that his services will be available as well as the links to the appropriate resources. We also ask that should something arise where Our audio access expert might not be available to record the call, that notice be given to the committee before letting the entirety of the NABS membership know that he will be absent. We ask for information prior to it going public, so that we are insuring that we are ahead of any potential concerns, not behind them. We also ask, so we can be sure to communicate any changes with our membership immediately. Because these announcements don't just go to the NABS-L list, they go to many other lists, we want to make sure that the information reaches those interested individuals too. I understand and am well aware that the consistency of notification of, and execution of call recordings has not been near as up to par as anyone would like, and as chair of the membership committee, I apologize to each of you. My expectation of how we operate includes communication and accountability, standards I will strive to model, if I have not done this toan acceptable level. If anyone (David included) has any concerns, questions or suggestions, please do bring them to me off-list so that we can get the heart of the matter in the most civil and productive way possible. I thank you all for your thoughts, opinions and concerns. If we keep asking, questioning and collaborating, we will continue to build a brighter future for ourselves, and generations of students that will come after us. Respectfully, Darian On May 18, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Hi, Arielle, > > Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a feat.One could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted during such calls. Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, simply because some people failed to see plans to post the call. > for today, Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >> live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >> So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or >> permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >> multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >> always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the >> call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >> withheld from the membership for this reason. >> Arielle >> >> On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> > David, >> > Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and also >> > record the nabs calls. >> > I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >> > If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via the >> > computer and phone lines. >> > >> > I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >> > Ashley >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: David Dunphy >> > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> > >> > Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him and the >> > membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've recorded it >> > or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the >> > call. >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > >> > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> > >> > >> >> Hello David, >> >> >> >> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording of >> >> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that the >> >> >> >> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right for you >> >> >> >> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >> >> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right to >> >> distribute it to other people. >> >> >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> >> From: "David Dunphy" >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> >> >>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >> >>> people want it. >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Sun May 19 08:34:32 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 01:34:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> Hi, Deb, Where are you from? Here, in northern california's Alameda county, they have this program called lifeline, which furnishes low income people with free cellular service. So, perhaps, you might look into county programs? Keep us posted! loving, for today, Car06:58 AM 5/18/2013, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >H >ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer afford a >phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There is such a >free phone program that I am ineligible for). > >My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. > >Thank you. > DEB MENDELSOHN > >-- >* > >* >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Sun May 19 15:18:25 2013 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 10:18:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: no On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 12:49 AM, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > What state do you live in? Does this pertain to a house or cell phone? I > have a contact who can help you with a opportunity. It is involving > Cell-phones. There is a way to make money offering people a new low-cost > service while refering them online. Let me know if you are interested. > Thanks, have a good day. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 18, 2013, at 9:59 AM, "Deb Mendelsohn" > wrote: > > > H > > ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer afford > a > > phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There is such a > > free phone program that I am ineligible for). > > > > My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. > > > > Thank you. > > DEB MENDELSOHN > > > > -- > > * > > > > * > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Sun May 19 17:47:17 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 13:47:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <802F8BD6-4C9A-4C1A-9FFC-EB471B97939B@gmail.com> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine><3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC><7.0.1.0.2.20130518194320.01c18b88@comcast.net> <802F8BD6-4C9A-4C1A-9FFC-EB471B97939B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Darian, Thank you for explaining this process with the NABS membership. It sounds as though you have a good process in place as it concerns the recording of the conference calls. I hope that all individuals involved can respect this process. I happen to be someone who is a bit wary of being recorded and having this recording be distributed to everyone online. Because of this, I thought it would be nice to receive permission from the guest speaker before the recording was distributed to everyone online. Perhaps the guest speaker would have no problem with this, but I think she should have the right to know that the conference call was being recorded when there was no announcement about it being recorded prior to the call. I think doing such a thing is simply a means of showing respect to the guest speaker. If we are not willing to show respect to our guest speakers then it may be difficult to find guest speakers for our conference calls in the future. But thank you Darian for serving on the membership committee and working hard to make these conference calls a reality. I know that the membership committee works hard behind the scenes to make these conference calls happen, and I deeply appreciate all the hard work that you and the membership committee do to make these conference calls a reality. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Darian Smith" Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:19 AM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > Hi all, > I apologize for getting to this thread as last as I have, but today has > been a long one, with A chapter meeting and a few other things. > Let me first say that it is not the intention of NABS or the Membership > committee to withhold information that can be useful to those we serve. > For my part, I was not made aware that the call was going to be streamed > or recorded, nor do I remember the participants of the call being given > any heads-up that the call would be recorded. > if the participants communicate that they are alright with the > recording being distributed, then I think it's fine. I'll check with both > the speakers of this call to make sure they are fie with it too. > I feel the need to correct some misunderstandings as it relates to some > of the NABS thought process regarding recordings. > We feel that every program that we do should be aimed towards > benefitting every student, and that anyone who wants to be a part of > creating, running and supporting our programs should be welcomed to do so, > because these programs are programs that belong to everyone. > We see the NABS membership calls as a successful part of those programs > and appreciate the hard work our committee members and guests put into > it. > an essential part of the success of these Calls is David Dunphy, as he > generously gives of his time and resources to make sure that those who > cannot join us on these informative confrence calls gets the chance to > listen live via his stream, and after the event via recorded audio. > In order to insure that each person takes advantage of these options, we > ask that We simply be provided with confirmation that his services will > be available as well as the links to the appropriate resources. > We also ask that should something arise where Our audio access expert > might not be available to record the call, that notice be given to the > committee before letting the entirety of the NABS membership know that > he will be absent. > > We ask for information prior to it going public, so that we are insuring > that we are ahead of any potential concerns, not behind them. > We also ask, so we can be sure to communicate any changes with our > membership immediately. > Because these announcements don't just go to the NABS-L list, they go to > many other lists, we want to make sure that the information reaches those > interested individuals too. > I understand and am well aware that the consistency of notification of, > and execution of call recordings has not been near as up to par as anyone > would like, and as chair of the membership committee, I apologize to > each of you. > My expectation of how we operate includes communication and > accountability, standards I will strive to model, if I have not done > this toan acceptable level. > If anyone (David included) has any concerns, questions or suggestions, > please do bring them to me off-list so that we can get the heart of the > matter in the most civil and productive way possible. > I thank you all for your thoughts, opinions and concerns. If we keep > asking, questioning and collaborating, we will continue to build a > brighter future for ourselves, and generations of students that will > come after us. > Respectfully, > Darian > > > > On May 18, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> Hi, Arielle, >> >> Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this >> message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a feat.One >> could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted during such >> calls. Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, simply because some >> people failed to see plans to post the call. >> for today, Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >>> live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >>> So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or >>> permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >>> multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >>> always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the >>> call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >>> withheld from the membership for this reason. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> > David, >>> > Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and >>> > also >>> > record the nabs calls. >>> > I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >>> > If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via >>> > the >>> > computer and phone lines. >>> > >>> > I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >>> > Ashley >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: David Dunphy >>> > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>> > >>> > Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him >>> > and the >>> > membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've >>> > recorded it >>> > or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the >>> > call. >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>> > >>> > >>> >> Hello David, >>> >> >>> >> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording >>> >> of >>> >> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >>> >> the >>> >> >>> >> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right >>> >> for you >>> >> >>> >> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>> >> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right >>> >> to >>> >> distribute it to other people. >>> >> >>> >> Elizabeth >>> >> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------- >>> >> From: "David Dunphy" >>> >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>> >> >>> >>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>> >>> people want it. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun May 19 18:51:12 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 12:51:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> <3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130518194320.01c18b88@comcast.net> <802F8BD6-4C9A-4C1A-9FFC-EB471B97939B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, While accountability and communication are always good, it seems like the best plan is to have someone recording each and every NABS call, so there is never any question about whether or not the calls will be recorded. Is it possible to get a back-up recorder to do it at the times when David is unable to record for whatever reason? I suspect that Pam will not object to the recording, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Arielle On 5/19/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > Hello Darian, > > Thank you for explaining this process with the NABS membership. It sounds as > > though you have a good process in place as it concerns the recording of the > > conference calls. I hope that all individuals involved can respect this > process. > > I happen to be someone who is a bit wary of being recorded and having this > recording be distributed to everyone online. Because of this, I thought it > would be nice to receive permission from the guest speaker before the > recording was distributed to everyone online. Perhaps the guest speaker > would have no problem with this, but I think she should have the right to > know that the conference call was being recorded when there was no > announcement about it being recorded prior to the call. I think doing such a > > thing is simply a means of showing respect to the guest speaker. If we are > not willing to show respect to our guest speakers then it may be difficult > to find guest speakers for our conference calls in the future. > > But thank you Darian for serving on the membership committee and working > hard to make these conference calls a reality. I know that the membership > committee works hard behind the scenes to make these conference calls > happen, and I deeply appreciate all the hard work that you and the > membership committee do to make these conference calls a reality. > > Elizabeth > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Darian Smith" > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:19 AM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > >> Hi all, >> I apologize for getting to this thread as last as I have, but today has >> >> been a long one, with A chapter meeting and a few other things. >> Let me first say that it is not the intention of NABS or the Membership >> committee to withhold information that can be useful to those we serve. >> For my part, I was not made aware that the call was going to be streamed >> or recorded, nor do I remember the participants of the call being given >> >> any heads-up that the call would be recorded. >> if the participants communicate that they are alright with the >> recording being distributed, then I think it's fine. I'll check with both >> >> the speakers of this call to make sure they are fie with it too. >> I feel the need to correct some misunderstandings as it relates to some >> >> of the NABS thought process regarding recordings. >> We feel that every program that we do should be aimed towards >> benefitting every student, and that anyone who wants to be a part of >> creating, running and supporting our programs should be welcomed to do so, >> >> because these programs are programs that belong to everyone. >> We see the NABS membership calls as a successful part of those programs >> and appreciate the hard work our committee members and guests put into >> it. >> an essential part of the success of these Calls is David Dunphy, as he >> generously gives of his time and resources to make sure that those who >> cannot join us on these informative confrence calls gets the chance to >> listen live via his stream, and after the event via recorded audio. >> In order to insure that each person takes advantage of these options, we >> ask that We simply be provided with confirmation that his services will >> be available as well as the links to the appropriate resources. >> We also ask that should something arise where Our audio access expert >> might not be available to record the call, that notice be given to the >> committee before letting the entirety of the NABS membership know that >> he will be absent. >> >> We ask for information prior to it going public, so that we are insuring >> >> that we are ahead of any potential concerns, not behind them. >> We also ask, so we can be sure to communicate any changes with our >> membership immediately. >> Because these announcements don't just go to the NABS-L list, they go to >> >> many other lists, we want to make sure that the information reaches those >> >> interested individuals too. >> I understand and am well aware that the consistency of notification of, >> and execution of call recordings has not been near as up to par as anyone >> >> would like, and as chair of the membership committee, I apologize to >> each of you. >> My expectation of how we operate includes communication and >> accountability, standards I will strive to model, if I have not done >> >> this toan acceptable level. >> If anyone (David included) has any concerns, questions or suggestions, >> please do bring them to me off-list so that we can get the heart of the >> matter in the most civil and productive way possible. >> I thank you all for your thoughts, opinions and concerns. If we keep >> asking, questioning and collaborating, we will continue to build a >> brighter future for ourselves, and generations of students that will >> come after us. >> Respectfully, >> Darian >> >> >> >> On May 18, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Arielle, >>> >>> Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this >>> message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a feat.One >>> >>> could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted during such >>> calls. Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, simply because some >>> >>> people failed to see plans to post the call. >>> for today, Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >>>> live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >>>> So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or >>>> permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >>>> multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >>>> always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the >>>> call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >>>> withheld from the membership for this reason. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> > David, >>>> > Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and >>>> > also >>>> > record the nabs calls. >>>> > I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >>>> > If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via >>>> > the >>>> > computer and phone lines. >>>> > >>>> > I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >>>> > Ashley >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: David Dunphy >>>> > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>> > >>>> > Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him >>>> > and the >>>> > membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've >>>> > recorded it >>>> > or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on >>>> > the >>>> > call. >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Hello David, >>>> >> >>>> >> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording >>>> >> >>>> >> of >>>> >> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >>>> >> >>>> >> the >>>> >> >>>> >> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right >>>> >> for you >>>> >> >>>> >> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>>> >> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> distribute it to other people. >>>> >> >>>> >> Elizabeth >>>> >> >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> >> From: "David Dunphy" >>>> >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >> >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>> >> >>>> >>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download >>>> >>> if >>>> >>> people want it. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >> for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun May 19 20:10:21 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 13:10:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine><3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC><7.0.1.0.2.20130518194320.01c18b88@comcast.net> <802F8BD6-4C9A-4C1A-9FFC-EB471B97939B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6590A99C-B5BD-4E91-B227-783428F0B441@gmail.com> If anyone is interested in being a backup recorder, please contact me off-list and we'll figure it out. Thanks so much, Darian On May 19, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > Hello Darian, > > Thank you for explaining this process with the NABS membership. It sounds as though you have a good process in place as it concerns the recording of the conference calls. I hope that all individuals involved can respect this process. > > I happen to be someone who is a bit wary of being recorded and having this recording be distributed to everyone online. Because of this, I thought it would be nice to receive permission from the guest speaker before the recording was distributed to everyone online. Perhaps the guest speaker would have no problem with this, but I think she should have the right to know that the conference call was being recorded when there was no announcement about it being recorded prior to the call. I think doing such a thing is simply a means of showing respect to the guest speaker. If we are not willing to show respect to our guest speakers then it may be difficult to find guest speakers for our conference calls in the future. > > But thank you Darian for serving on the membership committee and working hard to make these conference calls a reality. I know that the membership committee works hard behind the scenes to make these conference calls happen, and I deeply appreciate all the hard work that you and the membership committee do to make these conference calls a reality. > > Elizabeth > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Darian Smith" > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:19 AM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > >> Hi all, >> I apologize for getting to this thread as last as I have, but today has been a long one, with A chapter meeting and a few other things. >> Let me first say that it is not the intention of NABS or the Membership committee to withhold information that can be useful to those we serve. >> For my part, I was not made aware that the call was going to be streamed or recorded, nor do I remember the participants of the call being given any heads-up that the call would be recorded. >> if the participants communicate that they are alright with the recording being distributed, then I think it's fine. I'll check with both the speakers of this call to make sure they are fie with it too. >> I feel the need to correct some misunderstandings as it relates to some of the NABS thought process regarding recordings. >> We feel that every program that we do should be aimed towards benefitting every student, and that anyone who wants to be a part of creating, running and supporting our programs should be welcomed to do so, because these programs are programs that belong to everyone. >> We see the NABS membership calls as a successful part of those programs and appreciate the hard work our committee members and guests put into it. >> an essential part of the success of these Calls is David Dunphy, as he generously gives of his time and resources to make sure that those who cannot join us on these informative confrence calls gets the chance to listen live via his stream, and after the event via recorded audio. >> In order to insure that each person takes advantage of these options, we ask that We simply be provided with confirmation that his services will be available as well as the links to the appropriate resources. >> We also ask that should something arise where Our audio access expert might not be available to record the call, that notice be given to the committee before letting the entirety of the NABS membership know that he will be absent. >> >> We ask for information prior to it going public, so that we are insuring that we are ahead of any potential concerns, not behind them. >> We also ask, so we can be sure to communicate any changes with our membership immediately. >> Because these announcements don't just go to the NABS-L list, they go to many other lists, we want to make sure that the information reaches those interested individuals too. >> I understand and am well aware that the consistency of notification of, and execution of call recordings has not been near as up to par as anyone would like, and as chair of the membership committee, I apologize to each of you. >> My expectation of how we operate includes communication and accountability, standards I will strive to model, if I have not done this toan acceptable level. >> If anyone (David included) has any concerns, questions or suggestions, please do bring them to me off-list so that we can get the heart of the matter in the most civil and productive way possible. >> I thank you all for your thoughts, opinions and concerns. If we keep asking, questioning and collaborating, we will continue to build a brighter future for ourselves, and generations of students that will come after us. >> Respectfully, >> Darian >> >> >> >> On May 18, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >>> Hi, Arielle, >>> >>> Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a feat.One could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted during such calls. Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, simply because some people failed to see plans to post the call. >>> for today, Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >>>> live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >>>> So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or >>>> permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >>>> multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >>>> always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the >>>> call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >>>> withheld from the membership for this reason. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> David, >>>>> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and > also >>>>> record the nabs calls. >>>>> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >>>>> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via > the >>>>> computer and phone lines. >>>>> >>>>> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: David Dunphy >>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>> >>>>> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him > and the >>>>> membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've > recorded it >>>>> or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the >>>>> call. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello David, >>>>>> >>>>>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording >> of >>>>>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >> the >>>>>> >>>>>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right >> for you >>>>>> >>>>>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>>>>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right >> to >>>>>> distribute it to other people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> From: "David Dunphy" >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>>>>>> people want it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun May 19 21:28:16 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 14:28:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NOPBC Style Show Application References: <1368974066.37417.YahooMailNeo@web5804.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have been asked to circulate the following Begin forwarded message: > From: Kim Cunningham > Subject: NOPBC Style Show Application > Date: May 19, 2013 7:34:26 AM PDT > To: Darian Smith > Reply-To: Kim Cunningham > > Darian, > Would you please send out the attached invitation to the NABS listserv? You are welcome to send to any other listservs who would meet the age requirements also. > > Thank you for your help! > > Sincerely, > Kim Cunningham > 2nd V.P., NOPBC > From louvins at gmail.com Sun May 19 21:31:01 2013 From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 16:31:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? Message-ID: -- Joshua T Hendrickson Hello to all on the list. I just joined, and I'm checking if this message is coming through. I am glad to be on this list. From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun May 19 21:38:33 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 17:38:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4920751316723250466@unknownmsgid> Joshua, Your message is coming through. Welcome to the list! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > -- > Joshua T Hendrickson > > Hello to all on the list. I just joined, and I'm checking if this > message is coming through. I am glad to be on this list. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun May 19 21:39:29 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 14:39:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NOPBC Style Show Application In-Reply-To: References: <1368974066.37417.YahooMailNeo@web5804.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7F67B9691D93461FB32915634B46CE20@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I didn't see any attachment... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:28 PM To: North Carolina Association of blind students ; Arizona Association of blind students ; Kentucky Association of blind students ; Virginia Association of blind students ; Maryland Association of blind students ; Ohio Association of blind students ; West Virginia Association of blind students ; New York Association of blind students ; New Hampshire Association of blind students ; New Jersey Association of blind students ; Illinois Association of blind students ; Colorado Association of Blind Students ; Texas Association of blind students ; New Mexico Association of Blind Students ; Georgia Association of blind students ; Louisiana Association of blind students ; fabs at nfbnet.org ; Massachusetts Association of blind students ; Tennessee Association of blind students ; Minnesota Association of blind students ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; List for NABS State Presidents ; cabs-talk blind students ; Michigan Association of blind students ; Wisconsin Association of blind students ; Nebraska Association of blind students ; Missouri Association of Blind Students ; Alabama Association of blind students ; Utah Association of blind students Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NOPBC Style Show Application I have been asked to circulate the following Begin forwarded message: > From: Kim Cunningham > Subject: NOPBC Style Show Application > Date: May 19, 2013 7:34:26 AM PDT > To: Darian Smith > Reply-To: Kim Cunningham > > Darian, > Would you please send out the attached invitation to the NABS listserv? > You are welcome to send to any other listservs who would meet the age > requirements also. > > Thank you for your help! > > Sincerely, > Kim Cunningham > 2nd V.P., NOPBC > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sun May 19 22:01:53 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 18:01:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? In-Reply-To: <4920751316723250466@unknownmsgid> References: <4920751316723250466@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: I second that, welcome and it is coming through here. Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2013, at 5:38 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Joshua, > > Your message is coming through. Welcome to the list! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 19, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > >> -- >> Joshua T Hendrickson >> >> Hello to all on the list. I just joined, and I'm checking if this >> message is coming through. I am glad to be on this list. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com Mon May 20 00:02:04 2013 From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (Ryan Bishop) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 17:02:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05D6DCD3-C85C-477E-A246-0EEE9A9A4B62@gmail.com> Hello, welcome to the list Sent from my iPhone On 19/05/2013, at 14:31, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > -- > Joshua T Hendrickson > > Hello to all on the list. I just joined, and I'm checking if this > message is coming through. I am glad to be on this list. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Mon May 20 00:17:12 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:17:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? In-Reply-To: <05D6DCD3-C85C-477E-A246-0EEE9A9A4B62@gmail.com> References: <05D6DCD3-C85C-477E-A246-0EEE9A9A4B62@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Joshua. Welcome to the list! I actually became a member a month ago as well! God bless! Helga Schreiber -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Bishop Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 8:02 PM To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? Hello, welcome to the list Sent from my iPhone On 19/05/2013, at 14:31, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > -- > Joshua T Hendrickson > > Hello to all on the list. I just joined, and I'm checking if this > message is coming through. I am glad to be on this list. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 20 00:57:06 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:57:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? In-Reply-To: References: <05D6DCD3-C85C-477E-A246-0EEE9A9A4B62@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Welcome to the list! It's a great resource for all sorts of stuff. Feel free to ask questions. :) On 5/19/13, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hello Joshua. Welcome to the list! I actually became a member a month ago as > > well! God bless! > Helga Schreiber > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan Bishop > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 8:02 PM > To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? > > Hello, welcome to the list > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 19/05/2013, at 14:31, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > >> -- >> Joshua T Hendrickson >> >> Hello to all on the list. I just joined, and I'm checking if this >> message is coming through. I am glad to be on this list. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon May 20 01:04:54 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 21:04:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000601ce54f6$0a1f8950$1e5e9bf0$@gmail.com> Carly and Deb, There is a national program like the one you describe called SafeLink. If you Google the name of this program, you should be able to find information on how to apply. Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly Mihalakis Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 4:35 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; National Association of Blind Students mailing list; General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide range of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion list.; Kristen Johnson; sharon Booker; sdekker; Barbara McDonald; Mitzi home Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE Hi, Deb, Where are you from? Here, in northern california's Alameda county, they have this program called lifeline, which furnishes low income people with free cellular service. So, perhaps, you might look into county programs? Keep us posted! loving, for today, Car06:58 AM 5/18/2013, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >H >ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer >afford a phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There >is such a free phone program that I am ineligible for). > >My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. > >Thank you. > DEB MENDELSOHN > >-- >* > >* >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Mon May 20 01:23:32 2013 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:23:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: <000601ce54f6$0a1f8950$1e5e9bf0$@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> <000601ce54f6$0a1f8950$1e5e9bf0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, Thanks for the info, however, I'm NOT interested in having either a cell or land line phone at this time. Deb On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Carly and Deb, > > There is a national program like the one you describe called SafeLink. If > you Google the name of this program, you should be able to find information > on how to apply. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly > Mihalakis > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 4:35 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; National > Association of Blind Students mailing list; General discussion list for ACB > members and friends where a wide range of topics from blindness to > politics, > issues of the day or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free > form > discussion list.; Kristen Johnson; sharon Booker; sdekker; Barbara > McDonald; > Mitzi home > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE > > Hi, Deb, > > Where are you from? Here, in northern california's Alameda county, they > have > this program called lifeline, which furnishes low income people with free > cellular service. So, perhaps, you might look into county programs? > Keep us posted! > loving, for today, Car06:58 AM 5/18/2013, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > >H > >ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer > >afford a phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There > >is such a free phone program that I am ineligible for). > > > >My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. > > > >Thank you. > > DEB MENDELSOHN > > > >-- > >* > > > >* > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. > >net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Mon May 20 01:23:31 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 01:23:31 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? In-Reply-To: References: <05D6DCD3-C85C-477E-A246-0EEE9A9A4B62@gmail.com>, Message-ID: What? The same Joshua Hendrickson from Illinois? Welcome! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Helga Schreiber [helga.schreiber at hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 7:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? Hello Joshua. Welcome to the list! I actually became a member a month ago as well! God bless! Helga Schreiber -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Bishop Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 8:02 PM To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? Hello, welcome to the list Sent from my iPhone On 19/05/2013, at 14:31, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > -- > Joshua T Hendrickson > > Hello to all on the list. I just joined, and I'm checking if this > message is coming through. I am glad to be on this list. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Mon May 20 02:31:53 2013 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (blackbyrdfly at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:31:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NOPBC Style Show Application In-Reply-To: References: <1368974066.37417.YahooMailNeo@web5804.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I also don't see any attachment. Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2013, at 3:28 PM, Darian Smith wrote: > I have been asked to circulate the following > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Kim Cunningham >> Subject: NOPBC Style Show Application >> Date: May 19, 2013 7:34:26 AM PDT >> To: Darian Smith >> Reply-To: Kim Cunningham >> >> Darian, >> Would you please send out the attached invitation to the NABS listserv? You are welcome to send to any other listservs who would meet the age requirements also. >> >> Thank you for your help! >> >> Sincerely, >> Kim Cunningham >> 2nd V.P., NOPBC > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com From chelseap08 at gmail.com Mon May 20 03:16:57 2013 From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 22:16:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? In-Reply-To: References: <05D6DCD3-C85C-477E-A246-0EEE9A9A4B62@gmail.com> Message-ID: <74ACA560-B5F9-4FA0-B148-BCDA54F61EEE@gmail.com> Hi! Welcome to the list! Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2013, at 8:23 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > What? > The same Joshua Hendrickson from Illinois? > Welcome! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Helga Schreiber [helga.schreiber at hotmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 7:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? > > Hello Joshua. Welcome to the list! I actually became a member a month ago as > well! God bless! > Helga Schreiber > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan Bishop > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 8:02 PM > To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] test message, is this coming through? > > Hello, welcome to the list > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 19/05/2013, at 14:31, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > >> -- >> Joshua T Hendrickson >> >> Hello to all on the list. I just joined, and I'm checking if this >> message is coming through. I am glad to be on this list. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon May 20 10:45:58 2013 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 05:45:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <6590A99C-B5BD-4E91-B227-783428F0B441@gmail.com> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> <3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130518194320.01c18b88@comcast.net> <802F8BD6-4C9A-4C1A-9FFC-EB471B97939B@gmail.com> <6590A99C-B5BD-4E91-B227-783428F0B441@gmail.com> Message-ID: <510B8A43-B8A4-456F-AEB7-7687644099A4@samobile.net> If no one writes, I'd recommend Peter Donahue who does many of the convention recordings. Respectfully, Jedi Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2013, at 3:10 PM, Darian Smith wrote: > If anyone is interested in being a backup recorder, please contact me off-list and we'll figure it out. > Thanks so much, > Darian > On May 19, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >> Hello Darian, >> >> Thank you for explaining this process with the NABS membership. It sounds as though you have a good process in place as it concerns the recording of the conference calls. I hope that all individuals involved can respect this process. >> >> I happen to be someone who is a bit wary of being recorded and having this recording be distributed to everyone online. Because of this, I thought it would be nice to receive permission from the guest speaker before the recording was distributed to everyone online. Perhaps the guest speaker would have no problem with this, but I think she should have the right to know that the conference call was being recorded when there was no announcement about it being recorded prior to the call. I think doing such a thing is simply a means of showing respect to the guest speaker. If we are not willing to show respect to our guest speakers then it may be difficult to find guest speakers for our conference calls in the future. >> >> But thank you Darian for serving on the membership committee and working hard to make these conference calls a reality. I know that the membership committee works hard behind the scenes to make these conference calls happen, and I deeply appreciate all the hard work that you and the membership committee do to make these conference calls a reality. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Darian Smith" >> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:19 AM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >>> Hi all, >>> I apologize for getting to this thread as last as I have, but today has been a long one, with A chapter meeting and a few other things. >>> Let me first say that it is not the intention of NABS or the Membership committee to withhold information that can be useful to those we serve. >>> For my part, I was not made aware that the call was going to be streamed or recorded, nor do I remember the participants of the call being given any heads-up that the call would be recorded. >>> if the participants communicate that they are alright with the recording being distributed, then I think it's fine. I'll check with both the speakers of this call to make sure they are fie with it too. >>> I feel the need to correct some misunderstandings as it relates to some of the NABS thought process regarding recordings. >>> We feel that every program that we do should be aimed towards benefitting every student, and that anyone who wants to be a part of creating, running and supporting our programs should be welcomed to do so, because these programs are programs that belong to everyone. >>> We see the NABS membership calls as a successful part of those programs and appreciate the hard work our committee members and guests put into it. >>> an essential part of the success of these Calls is David Dunphy, as he generously gives of his time and resources to make sure that those who cannot join us on these informative confrence calls gets the chance to listen live via his stream, and after the event via recorded audio. >>> In order to insure that each person takes advantage of these options, we ask that We simply be provided with confirmation that his services will be available as well as the links to the appropriate resources. >>> We also ask that should something arise where Our audio access expert might not be available to record the call, that notice be given to the committee before letting the entirety of the NABS membership know that he will be absent. >>> >>> We ask for information prior to it going public, so that we are insuring that we are ahead of any potential concerns, not behind them. >>> We also ask, so we can be sure to communicate any changes with our membership immediately. >>> Because these announcements don't just go to the NABS-L list, they go to many other lists, we want to make sure that the information reaches those interested individuals too. >>> I understand and am well aware that the consistency of notification of, and execution of call recordings has not been near as up to par as anyone would like, and as chair of the membership committee, I apologize to each of you. >>> My expectation of how we operate includes communication and accountability, standards I will strive to model, if I have not done this toan acceptable level. >>> If anyone (David included) has any concerns, questions or suggestions, please do bring them to me off-list so that we can get the heart of the matter in the most civil and productive way possible. >>> I thank you all for your thoughts, opinions and concerns. If we keep asking, questioning and collaborating, we will continue to build a brighter future for ourselves, and generations of students that will come after us. >>> Respectfully, >>> Darian >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 18, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Arielle, >>>> >>>> Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a feat.One could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted during such calls. Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, simply because some people failed to see plans to post the call. >>>> for today, Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >>>>> live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >>>>> So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or >>>>> permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >>>>> multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >>>>> always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the >>>>> call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >>>>> withheld from the membership for this reason. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> David, >>>>>> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and > also >>>>>> record the nabs calls. >>>>>> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >>>>>> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via > the >>>>>> computer and phone lines. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: David Dunphy >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>> >>>>>> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him > and the >>>>>> membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've > recorded it >>>>>> or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the >>>>>> call. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello David, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording >> of >>>>>>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >> the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right >> for you >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>>>>>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right >> to >>>>>>> distribute it to other people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> From: "David Dunphy" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>>>>>>> people want it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon May 20 10:57:06 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 06:57:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> <000601ce54f6$0a1f8950$1e5e9bf0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2348508759465624433@unknownmsgid> Oh, I see. Are you just going to use email for the time being? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > Hi Chris, > Thanks for the info, however, I'm NOT interested in having either a cell or > land line phone at this time. > > Deb > > > On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > >> Carly and Deb, >> >> There is a national program like the one you describe called SafeLink. If >> you Google the name of this program, you should be able to find information >> on how to apply. >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >> Mihalakis >> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 4:35 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list; General discussion list for ACB >> members and friends where a wide range of topics from blindness to >> politics, >> issues of the day or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free >> form >> discussion list.; Kristen Johnson; sharon Booker; sdekker; Barbara >> McDonald; >> Mitzi home >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE >> >> Hi, Deb, >> >> Where are you from? Here, in northern california's Alameda county, they >> have >> this program called lifeline, which furnishes low income people with free >> cellular service. So, perhaps, you might look into county programs? >> Keep us posted! >> loving, for today, Car06:58 AM 5/18/2013, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >>> H >>> ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer >>> afford a phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There >>> is such a free phone program that I am ineligible for). >>> >>> My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> DEB MENDELSOHN >>> >>> -- >>> * >>> >>> * >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From louvins at gmail.com Mon May 20 12:52:23 2013 From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 07:52:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Message-ID: -- Joshua T Hendrickson Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different rocks apart. I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for reading this message. From sgermano at asu.edu Mon May 20 13:01:36 2013 From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 06:01:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tell this teacher about Geerat Vermeij who is blind. Geerat Vermeij, a professor of geology whose work on sea shells has led to insights into evolution, ecology, biology and economics, has been named the 2004 Faculty Research Lecturer by his colleagues at the University of California, Davis. He can identity somewhere around 3500 shells by touch. he graduated from Princeton University in 1968 and received his Ph.D. in biology and geology from Yale Universityin 1971. On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > -- > Joshua T Hendrickson > > Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close to > getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to take, > is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor and I > was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all about rocks > and things like that. The Dean of The science department had > suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The > teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is > extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, > and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet > with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the upcoming > class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. He told > gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different rocks apart. > I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in > the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn > who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science > again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class > called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I should > take this class, because the lady who taught the class was supportive > and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want to take an > online class, because I don't know how accessible it will be with > jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was kind of set > up like what the online course would look like, but it was very > confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as assignments, or > discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure out if jaws will > be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to meet tomorrow > with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see if I should > take this class, although, I am already registered for the lecture > based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't even want me in > his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible textbooks for > either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for reading this > message. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > From djd76257 at gmail.com Mon May 20 13:05:58 2013 From: djd76257 at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:05:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <510B8A43-B8A4-456F-AEB7-7687644099A4@samobile.net> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine><3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC><7.0.1.0.2.20130518194320.01c18b88@comcast.net><802F8BD6-4C9A-4C1A-9FFC-EB471B97939B@gmail.com><6590A99C-B5BD-4E91-B227-783428F0B441@gmail.com> <510B8A43-B8A4-456F-AEB7-7687644099A4@samobile.net> Message-ID: <64931586E1624034804B539E4ECCA161@WildJasmine> If you want to deal with a difficult person, I'd recommend him. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi Moerke" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > If no one writes, I'd recommend Peter Donahue who does many of the > convention recordings. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 19, 2013, at 3:10 PM, Darian Smith wrote: > >> If anyone is interested in being a backup recorder, please contact me >> off-list and we'll figure it out. >> Thanks so much, >> Darian >> On May 19, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke >> wrote: >> >>> Hello Darian, >>> >>> Thank you for explaining this process with the NABS membership. It >>> sounds as though you have a good process in place as it concerns the >>> recording of the conference calls. I hope that all individuals involved >>> can respect this process. >>> >>> I happen to be someone who is a bit wary of being recorded and having >>> this recording be distributed to everyone online. Because of this, I >>> thought it would be nice to receive permission from the guest speaker >>> before the recording was distributed to everyone online. Perhaps the >>> guest speaker would have no problem with this, but I think she should >>> have the right to know that the conference call was being recorded when >>> there was no announcement about it being recorded prior to the call. I >>> think doing such a thing is simply a means of showing respect to the >>> guest speaker. If we are not willing to show respect to our guest >>> speakers then it may be difficult to find guest speakers for our >>> conference calls in the future. >>> >>> But thank you Darian for serving on the membership committee and working >>> hard to make these conference calls a reality. I know that the >>> membership committee works hard behind the scenes to make these >>> conference calls happen, and I deeply appreciate all the hard work that >>> you and the membership committee do to make these conference calls a >>> reality. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Darian Smith" >>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:19 AM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I apologize for getting to this thread as last as I have, but today >>>> has been a long one, with A chapter meeting and a few other things. >>>> Let me first say that it is not the intention of NABS or the >>>> Membership committee to withhold information that can be useful to >>>> those we serve. >>>> For my part, I was not made aware that the call was going to be >>>> streamed or recorded, nor do I remember the participants of the call >>>> being given any heads-up that the call would be recorded. >>>> if the participants communicate that they are alright with the >>>> recording being distributed, then I think it's fine. I'll check with >>>> both the speakers of this call to make sure they are fie with it too. >>>> I feel the need to correct some misunderstandings as it relates to >>>> some of the NABS thought process regarding recordings. >>>> We feel that every program that we do should be aimed towards >>>> benefitting every student, and that anyone who wants to be a part of >>>> creating, running and supporting our programs should be welcomed to do >>>> so, because these programs are programs that belong to everyone. >>>> We see the NABS membership calls as a successful part of those >>>> programs and appreciate the hard work our committee members and guests >>>> put into it. >>>> an essential part of the success of these Calls is David Dunphy, as he >>>> generously gives of his time and resources to make sure that those who >>>> cannot join us on these informative confrence calls gets the chance to >>>> listen live via his stream, and after the event via recorded audio. >>>> In order to insure that each person takes advantage of these options, >>>> we ask that We simply be provided with confirmation that his services >>>> will be available as well as the links to the appropriate >>>> resources. >>>> We also ask that should something arise where Our audio access expert >>>> might not be available to record the call, that notice be given to the >>>> committee before letting the entirety of the NABS membership know that >>>> he will be absent. >>>> >>>> We ask for information prior to it going public, so that we are >>>> insuring that we are ahead of any potential concerns, not behind them. >>>> We also ask, so we can be sure to communicate any changes with our >>>> membership immediately. >>>> Because these announcements don't just go to the NABS-L list, they go >>>> to many other lists, we want to make sure that the information reaches >>>> those interested individuals too. >>>> I understand and am well aware that the consistency of notification >>>> of, and execution of call recordings has not been near as up to par as >>>> anyone would like, and as chair of the membership committee, I >>>> apologize to each of you. >>>> My expectation of how we operate includes communication and >>>> accountability, standards I will strive to model, if I have not >>>> done this toan acceptable level. >>>> If anyone (David included) has any concerns, questions or suggestions, >>>> please do bring them to me off-list so that we can get the heart of >>>> the matter in the most civil and productive way possible. >>>> I thank you all for your thoughts, opinions and concerns. If we keep >>>> asking, questioning and collaborating, we will continue to build a >>>> brighter future for ourselves, and generations of students that will >>>> come after us. >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Darian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 18, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Carly Mihalakis >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Arielle, >>>>> >>>>> Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this >>>>> message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a >>>>> feat.One could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted >>>>> during such calls. Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, >>>>> simply because some people failed to see plans to post the call. >>>>> for today, Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >>>>>> live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >>>>>> So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge >>>>>> or >>>>>> permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >>>>>> multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >>>>>> always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about >>>>>> the >>>>>> call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >>>>>> withheld from the membership for this reason. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> David, >>>>>>> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and >>>>>>> > also >>>>>>> record the nabs calls. >>>>>>> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >>>>>>> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via >>>>>>> > the >>>>>>> computer and phone lines. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: David Dunphy >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him >>>>>>> > and the >>>>>>> membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've > >>>>>>> recorded it >>>>>>> or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> call. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello David, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the >>>>>>>> recording >> of >>>>>>>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know >>>>>>>> that >> the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right >>>>>>>> >> for you >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the >>>>>>>> right >> to >>>>>>>> distribute it to other people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> From: "David Dunphy" >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> people want it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> >>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon May 20 13:39:10 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:39:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <64931586E1624034804B539E4ECCA161@WildJasmine> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> <3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130518194320.01c18b88@comcast.net> <802F8BD6-4C9A-4C1A-9FFC-EB471B97939B@gmail.com> <6590A99C-B5BD-4E91-B227-783428F0B441@gmail.com> <510B8A43-B8A4-456F-AEB7-7687644099A4@samobile.net> <64931586E1624034804B539E4ECCA161@WildJasmine> Message-ID: <6060150836938975672@unknownmsgid> FYI, he's on this list... just saying. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 9:36 AM, David Dunphy wrote: > If you want to deal with a difficult person, I'd recommend him. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi Moerke" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:45 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. > > >> If no one writes, I'd recommend Peter Donahue who does many of the convention recordings. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 19, 2013, at 3:10 PM, Darian Smith wrote: >> >>> If anyone is interested in being a backup recorder, please contact me off-list and we'll figure it out. >>> Thanks so much, >>> Darian >>> On May 19, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Darian, >>>> >>>> Thank you for explaining this process with the NABS membership. It sounds as though you have a good process in place as it concerns the recording of the conference calls. I hope that all individuals involved can respect this process. >>>> >>>> I happen to be someone who is a bit wary of being recorded and having this recording be distributed to everyone online. Because of this, I thought it would be nice to receive permission from the guest speaker before the recording was distributed to everyone online. Perhaps the guest speaker would have no problem with this, but I think she should have the right to know that the conference call was being recorded when there was no announcement about it being recorded prior to the call. I think doing such a thing is simply a means of showing respect to the guest speaker. If we are not willing to show respect to our guest speakers then it may be difficult to find guest speakers for our conference calls in the future. >>>> >>>> But thank you Darian for serving on the membership committee and working hard to make these conference calls a reality. I know that the membership committee works hard behind the scenes to make these conference calls happen, and I deeply appreciate all the hard work that you and the membership committee do to make these conference calls a reality. >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Darian Smith" >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:19 AM >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I apologize for getting to this thread as last as I have, but today has been a long one, with A chapter meeting and a few other things. >>>>> Let me first say that it is not the intention of NABS or the Membership committee to withhold information that can be useful to those we serve. >>>>> For my part, I was not made aware that the call was going to be streamed or recorded, nor do I remember the participants of the call being given any heads-up that the call would be recorded. >>>>> if the participants communicate that they are alright with the recording being distributed, then I think it's fine. I'll check with both the speakers of this call to make sure they are fie with it too. >>>>> I feel the need to correct some misunderstandings as it relates to some of the NABS thought process regarding recordings. >>>>> We feel that every program that we do should be aimed towards benefitting every student, and that anyone who wants to be a part of creating, running and supporting our programs should be welcomed to do so, because these programs are programs that belong to everyone. >>>>> We see the NABS membership calls as a successful part of those programs and appreciate the hard work our committee members and guests put into it. >>>>> an essential part of the success of these Calls is David Dunphy, as he generously gives of his time and resources to make sure that those who cannot join us on these informative confrence calls gets the chance to listen live via his stream, and after the event via recorded audio. >>>>> In order to insure that each person takes advantage of these options, we ask that We simply be provided with confirmation that his services will be available as well as the links to the appropriate resources. >>>>> We also ask that should something arise where Our audio access expert might not be available to record the call, that notice be given to the committee before letting the entirety of the NABS membership know that he will be absent. >>>>> >>>>> We ask for information prior to it going public, so that we are insuring that we are ahead of any potential concerns, not behind them. >>>>> We also ask, so we can be sure to communicate any changes with our membership immediately. >>>>> Because these announcements don't just go to the NABS-L list, they go to many other lists, we want to make sure that the information reaches those interested individuals too. >>>>> I understand and am well aware that the consistency of notification of, and execution of call recordings has not been near as up to par as anyone would like, and as chair of the membership committee, I apologize to each of you. >>>>> My expectation of how we operate includes communication and accountability, standards I will strive to model, if I have not done this toan acceptable level. >>>>> If anyone (David included) has any concerns, questions or suggestions, please do bring them to me off-list so that we can get the heart of the matter in the most civil and productive way possible. >>>>> I thank you all for your thoughts, opinions and concerns. If we keep asking, questioning and collaborating, we will continue to build a brighter future for ourselves, and generations of students that will come after us. >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Darian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 18, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Arielle, >>>>>> >>>>>> Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a feat.One could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted during such calls. Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, simply because some people failed to see plans to post the call. >>>>>> for today, Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >>>>>>> live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >>>>>>> So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or >>>>>>> permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >>>>>>> multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >>>>>>> always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the >>>>>>> call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >>>>>>> withheld from the membership for this reason. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> David, >>>>>>>> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and > also >>>>>>>> record the nabs calls. >>>>>>>> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >>>>>>>> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via > the >>>>>>>> computer and phone lines. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: David Dunphy >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him > and the >>>>>>>> membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've > recorded it >>>>>>>> or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the >>>>>>>> call. >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello David, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording >> of >>>>>>>>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >> the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right >> for you >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>>>>>>>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right >> to >>>>>>>>> distribute it to other people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> From: "David Dunphy" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>>>>>>>>> people want it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Mon May 20 13:45:59 2013 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:45:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Blind Orgs Make PowerPoint Support a Reality in NVDA In-Reply-To: <007f01ce5399$aaa14340$6501a8c0@carolyn7b35ad9> References: <007f01ce5399$aaa14340$6501a8c0@carolyn7b35ad9> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE436@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> From: info_focb [mailto:info_focb at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 3:31 AM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: Blind Orgs Make PowerPoint Support a Reality in NVDA Blind Orgs Make PowerPoint Support a Reality in NVDA April 24, 2013 6:09 am Michael and James on stage with projecter screen showing "Gala dinner WBU-ICEB 2012" Thanks to the support of several key blindness organisations, soon blind and vision impaired people will be able to gain access to Microsoft PowerPoint through NVDA, enabling them to both create and present presentations along with their sighted peers. People have long waited for PowerPoint support in NVDA, but it was at a gala dinner held at the WBU-ICEVI 2012 General Assembly in Thailand where it all became possible. Over US$40,000 was contributed that night to add support for Microsoft PowerPoint to the NVDA screen reader. Funding was pledged from blindness organisations all over the globe, including from Australia, the U.s, Israel, Germany, Spain, Thailand and others. It was an extremely proud night for us to see the blindness community and its organizations pull together and take ownership of equitable access to technology. NVDA may have been created by NV Access, but it is most certainly now owned by the blindness community at large. Support for Microsoft PowerPoint will be included in the next release of NVDA (2013.1) which is due out very shortly. We would like to thank the following organisations for their financial contribution to this work: National Organization of Spanish blind people (ONCE), Vision Australia, National Federation of the Blind (U.S.), Christian Foundation for the Blind (Thailand), Thailand Association of the Blind, Overbrook school for the blind, The Society of Blind and Dyslexic Students in Israel, and RNIB. From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon May 20 14:24:44 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:24:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another Message-ID: <519a325d.c505310a.6b52.ffff8a30@mx.google.com> dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist From kobycox at gmail.com Mon May 20 14:31:39 2013 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:31:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another In-Reply-To: <519a325d.c505310a.6b52.ffff8a30@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <67DDA89106D34478A3DB92C109E73F9D@OwnerPC> Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Mon May 20 14:43:51 2013 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:43:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: <2348508759465624433@unknownmsgid> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> <000601ce54f6$0a1f8950$1e5e9bf0$@gmail.com> <2348508759465624433@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Yes, its FREE! Deb On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:57 AM, christopher nusbaum < dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote: > Oh, I see. Are you just going to use email for the time being? > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 19, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Deb Mendelsohn > wrote: > > > Hi Chris, > > Thanks for the info, however, I'm NOT interested in having either a cell > or > > land line phone at this time. > > > > Deb > > > > > > On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >wrote: > > > >> Carly and Deb, > >> > >> There is a national program like the one you describe called SafeLink. > If > >> you Google the name of this program, you should be able to find > information > >> on how to apply. > >> > >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > >> Public Relations Committee > >> Maryland Association of Blind Students > >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly > >> Mihalakis > >> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 4:35 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; National > >> Association of Blind Students mailing list; General discussion list for > ACB > >> members and friends where a wide range of topics from blindness to > >> politics, > >> issues of the day or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free > >> form > >> discussion list.; Kristen Johnson; sharon Booker; sdekker; Barbara > >> McDonald; > >> Mitzi home > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE > >> > >> Hi, Deb, > >> > >> Where are you from? Here, in northern california's Alameda county, they > >> have > >> this program called lifeline, which furnishes low income people with > free > >> cellular service. So, perhaps, you might look into county programs? > >> Keep us posted! > >> loving, for today, Car06:58 AM 5/18/2013, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > >>> H > >>> ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer > >>> afford a phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There > >>> is such a free phone program that I am ineligible for). > >>> > >>> My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> DEB MENDELSOHN > >>> > >>> -- > >>> * > >>> > >>> * > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast > . > >>> net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > >> om > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Mon May 20 14:47:22 2013 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel Wheeler) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:47:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] leaving for Europe tomorrow Message-ID: Hi all, Sorry to the list owner, I just tried to send this message but accidentally sent it with my college email, not my gmail, I'm using the mail app on the mac, so I'm sure you mac users know what I mean. lol Anyways, here's the summary of what I just tried to write. I'm leaving for Europe tomorrow for my study abroad, I just wanted to make my friends, and the list, aware of a few items. 1, I will post as I am able, but may not have time to update the various lists I'm on. If one of you who is on my fb sees a particularly interesting fb update from me, and wants to share with the list, please write me privately and offer to do so. This would be a huge help in keeping all my friends up to date on my life. Here are the ways to contact me (note to all my friends here who know my phone number, don't call, I won't be able to receive incoming phone calls) my private email, as well as my iMessaging and iChat address is laurel.stockard at gmail.com my skype is heartfornations my facebook is Laurel Wheeler and network is UT Arlington, if you add me, sent me a quick message and let me know that you are from the NABs list Stockard, my guide dog, also has a page, name is Stockard Wheeler I have a blog that will be updated as I am able. It's www.laurelandstockard.blogspot.com Thanks for y'all understanding that I may be incredibly busy, and that the best way to contact me will be to do so privately. Again, I will post directly to the list as I am able Have a great day! Laurel From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon May 20 14:54:42 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 10:54:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] leaving for Europe tomorrow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86C514A9-8456-4446-8697-7F7ACCCE4258@gmail.com> I wish you good luck :) Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Laurel Wheeler wrote: > Hi all, > Sorry to the list owner, I just tried to send this message but accidentally sent it with my college email, not my gmail, I'm using the mail app on the mac, so I'm sure you mac users know what I mean. lol > > Anyways, here's the summary of what I just tried to write. > > I'm leaving for Europe tomorrow for my study abroad, I just wanted to make my friends, and the list, aware of a few items. > 1, I will post as I am able, but may not have time to update the various lists I'm on. If one of you who is on my fb sees a particularly interesting fb update from me, and wants to share with the list, please write me privately and offer to do so. This would be a huge help in keeping all my friends up to date on my life. > > Here are the ways to contact me (note to all my friends here who know my phone number, don't call, I won't be able to receive incoming phone calls) > my private email, as well as my iMessaging and iChat address is laurel.stockard at gmail.com > my skype is heartfornations > my facebook is Laurel Wheeler and network is UT Arlington, if you add me, sent me a quick message and let me know that you are from the NABs list > Stockard, my guide dog, also has a page, name is Stockard Wheeler > I have a blog that will be updated as I am able. It's www.laurelandstockard.blogspot.com > > Thanks for y'all understanding that I may be incredibly busy, and that the best way to contact me will be to do so privately. > Again, I will post directly to the list as I am able > Have a great day! > Laurel > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon May 20 15:01:12 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:01:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable accommodations. A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color is it or does it have any marbling. This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, surely so can rock geology. If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your NFB state president. Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office does this before you purchase the books. I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! -Jewel Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > -- > Joshua T Hendrickson > > Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close to > getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to take, > is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor and I > was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all about rocks > and things like that. The Dean of The science department had > suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The > teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is > extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, > and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet > with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the upcoming > class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. He told > gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different rocks apart. > I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in > the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn > who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science > again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class > called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I should > take this class, because the lady who taught the class was supportive > and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want to take an > online class, because I don't know how accessible it will be with > jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was kind of set > up like what the online course would look like, but it was very > confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as assignments, or > discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure out if jaws will > be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to meet tomorrow > with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see if I should > take this class, although, I am already registered for the lecture > based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't even want me in > his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible textbooks for > either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for reading this > message. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon May 20 15:02:44 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:02:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> <000601ce54f6$0a1f8950$1e5e9bf0$@gmail.com> <2348508759465624433@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <-7056320658801312313@unknownmsgid> Good luck in Europe! God bless! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 10:45 AM, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > Yes, its FREE! > > Deb > > > On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:57 AM, christopher nusbaum < > dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Oh, I see. Are you just going to use email for the time being? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 19, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Deb Mendelsohn >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Chris, >>> Thanks for the info, however, I'm NOT interested in having either a cell >> or >>> land line phone at this time. >>> >>> Deb >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >>> >>>> Carly and Deb, >>>> >>>> There is a national program like the one you describe called SafeLink. >> If >>>> you Google the name of this program, you should be able to find >> information >>>> on how to apply. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>>> Public Relations Committee >>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>> Mihalakis >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 4:35 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; National >>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list; General discussion list for >> ACB >>>> members and friends where a wide range of topics from blindness to >>>> politics, >>>> issues of the day or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free >>>> form >>>> discussion list.; Kristen Johnson; sharon Booker; sdekker; Barbara >>>> McDonald; >>>> Mitzi home >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE >>>> >>>> Hi, Deb, >>>> >>>> Where are you from? Here, in northern california's Alameda county, they >>>> have >>>> this program called lifeline, which furnishes low income people with >> free >>>> cellular service. So, perhaps, you might look into county programs? >>>> Keep us posted! >>>> loving, for today, Car06:58 AM 5/18/2013, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >>>>> H >>>>> ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer >>>>> afford a phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There >>>>> is such a free phone program that I am ineligible for). >>>>> >>>>> My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> DEB MENDELSOHN >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >> . >>>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon May 20 15:06:33 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:06:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> <000601ce54f6$0a1f8950$1e5e9bf0$@gmail.com> <2348508759465624433@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <1643569461441603243@unknownmsgid> I see. If you want a way to talk with people on the phone, you could get a Google Voice account and call from your computer and/or iOS device. This is also free. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 10:45 AM, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > Yes, its FREE! > > Deb > > > On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:57 AM, christopher nusbaum < > dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Oh, I see. Are you just going to use email for the time being? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 19, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Deb Mendelsohn >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Chris, >>> Thanks for the info, however, I'm NOT interested in having either a cell >> or >>> land line phone at this time. >>> >>> Deb >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >>> >>>> Carly and Deb, >>>> >>>> There is a national program like the one you describe called SafeLink. >> If >>>> you Google the name of this program, you should be able to find >> information >>>> on how to apply. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>>> Public Relations Committee >>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>> Mihalakis >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 4:35 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; National >>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list; General discussion list for >> ACB >>>> members and friends where a wide range of topics from blindness to >>>> politics, >>>> issues of the day or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free >>>> form >>>> discussion list.; Kristen Johnson; sharon Booker; sdekker; Barbara >>>> McDonald; >>>> Mitzi home >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE >>>> >>>> Hi, Deb, >>>> >>>> Where are you from? Here, in northern california's Alameda county, they >>>> have >>>> this program called lifeline, which furnishes low income people with >> free >>>> cellular service. So, perhaps, you might look into county programs? >>>> Keep us posted! >>>> loving, for today, Car06:58 AM 5/18/2013, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >>>>> H >>>>> ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer >>>>> afford a phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There >>>>> is such a free phone program that I am ineligible for). >>>>> >>>>> My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> DEB MENDELSOHN >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >> . >>>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon May 20 15:08:19 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:08:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: <-7056320658801312313@unknownmsgid> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> <000601ce54f6$0a1f8950$1e5e9bf0$@gmail.com> <2348508759465624433@unknownmsgid> <-7056320658801312313@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <1622B481-D677-443A-A5CE-D65468B27E5E@gmail.com> I think you replied to the wrong thread :) Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 11:02 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Good luck in Europe! God bless! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 10:45 AM, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > >> Yes, its FREE! >> >> Deb >> >> >> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:57 AM, christopher nusbaum < >> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Oh, I see. Are you just going to use email for the time being? >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 19, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Deb Mendelsohn >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Chris, >>>> Thanks for the info, however, I'm NOT interested in having either a cell >>> or >>>> land line phone at this time. >>>> >>>> Deb >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Carly and Deb, >>>>> >>>>> There is a national program like the one you describe called SafeLink. >>> If >>>>> you Google the name of this program, you should be able to find >>> information >>>>> on how to apply. >>>>> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>>>> Public Relations Committee >>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>> Mihalakis >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 4:35 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; National >>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list; General discussion list for >>> ACB >>>>> members and friends where a wide range of topics from blindness to >>>>> politics, >>>>> issues of the day or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free >>>>> form >>>>> discussion list.; Kristen Johnson; sharon Booker; sdekker; Barbara >>>>> McDonald; >>>>> Mitzi home >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE >>>>> >>>>> Hi, Deb, >>>>> >>>>> Where are you from? Here, in northern california's Alameda county, they >>>>> have >>>>> this program called lifeline, which furnishes low income people with >>> free >>>>> cellular service. So, perhaps, you might look into county programs? >>>>> Keep us posted! >>>>> loving, for today, Car06:58 AM 5/18/2013, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >>>>>> H >>>>>> ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer >>>>>> afford a phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding (There >>>>>> is such a free phone program that I am ineligible for). >>>>>> >>>>>> My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> DEB MENDELSOHN >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> * >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >>> . >>>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>>> om >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From jty727 at gmail.com Mon May 20 15:41:06 2013 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:41:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA Message-ID: Hi All! I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA? Is it better than JAWS? I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages related to this topic. Thanks as always for your feedback! Justin From zdreicer at gmail.com Mon May 20 15:43:43 2013 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:43:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <785DE783-704E-43AD-A7B3-B98C6C203843@gmail.com> I use the two in conjunction. When one doesn't work, the other always comes in handy :-) Sent from my iPhone 4S using VoiceOver On May 20, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Justin Young wrote: > Hi All! > > I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA? Is it better than > JAWS? I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages > related to this topic. Thanks as always for your feedback! > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon May 20 15:51:10 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:51:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: <785DE783-704E-43AD-A7B3-B98C6C203843@gmail.com> References: <785DE783-704E-43AD-A7B3-B98C6C203843@gmail.com> Message-ID: <89AB75E3-1957-48CE-8703-D107A21AFD6C@gmail.com> Personally I use it a lot. It's free and it has most of the functionality of jaws if you can find good addons for it. Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 11:43 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" wrote: > I use the two in conjunction. When one doesn't work, the other always comes in handy :-) > > Sent from my iPhone 4S using VoiceOver > > On May 20, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Justin Young wrote: > >> Hi All! >> >> I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA? Is it better than >> JAWS? I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages >> related to this topic. Thanks as always for your feedback! >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Mon May 20 16:03:42 2013 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:03:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: <1622B481-D677-443A-A5CE-D65468B27E5E@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> <000601ce54f6$0a1f8950$1e5e9bf0$@gmail.com> <2348508759465624433@unknownmsgid> <-7056320658801312313@unknownmsgid> <1622B481-D677-443A-A5CE-D65468B27E5E@gmail.com> Message-ID: THANKS. I ALSO CUT INTERNET AT MY HOUSE, DR. VISITS AND MEDICATION. I HAVE MEDICARE PART D ONLY. I AM FROM AZ. I MAKE OVER THE LIMIT FOR MEDICAID AND FOOD STAMPS. On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: > I think you replied to the wrong thread :) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 11:02 AM, christopher nusbaum < > dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Good luck in Europe! God bless! > > > > Chris Nusbaum > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On May 20, 2013, at 10:45 AM, Deb Mendelsohn > wrote: > > > >> Yes, its FREE! > >> > >> Deb > >> > >> > >> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:57 AM, christopher nusbaum < > >> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Oh, I see. Are you just going to use email for the time being? > >>> > >>> Chris Nusbaum > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On May 19, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Deb Mendelsohn > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Chris, > >>>> Thanks for the info, however, I'm NOT interested in having either a > cell > >>> or > >>>> land line phone at this time. > >>>> > >>>> Deb > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum < > dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Carly and Deb, > >>>>> > >>>>> There is a national program like the one you describe called > SafeLink. > >>> If > >>>>> you Google the name of this program, you should be able to find > >>> information > >>>>> on how to apply. > >>>>> > >>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > >>>>> Public Relations Committee > >>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students > >>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly > >>>>> Mihalakis > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 4:35 AM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; National > >>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list; General discussion list > for > >>> ACB > >>>>> members and friends where a wide range of topics from blindness to > >>>>> politics, > >>>>> issues of the day or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a > free > >>>>> form > >>>>> discussion list.; Kristen Johnson; sharon Booker; sdekker; Barbara > >>>>> McDonald; > >>>>> Mitzi home > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi, Deb, > >>>>> > >>>>> Where are you from? Here, in northern california's Alameda county, > they > >>>>> have > >>>>> this program called lifeline, which furnishes low income people with > >>> free > >>>>> cellular service. So, perhaps, you might look into county programs? > >>>>> Keep us posted! > >>>>> loving, for today, Car06:58 AM 5/18/2013, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > >>>>>> H > >>>>>> ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer > >>>>>> afford a phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding > (There > >>>>>> is such a free phone program that I am ineligible for). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>> DEB MENDELSOHN > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> * > >>>>>> > >>>>>> * > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast > >>> . > >>>>>> net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > >>>>> om > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>>> > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon May 20 16:11:51 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:11:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130519013054.0202c918@comcast.net> <000601ce54f6$0a1f8950$1e5e9bf0$@gmail.com> <2348508759465624433@unknownmsgid> <-7056320658801312313@unknownmsgid> <1622B481-D677-443A-A5CE-D65468B27E5E@gmail.com> Message-ID: I meant that for Chris, but it's okay, :-) Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 12:03 PM, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > THANKS. I ALSO CUT INTERNET AT MY HOUSE, DR. VISITS AND MEDICATION. I > HAVE MEDICARE PART D ONLY. I AM FROM AZ. I MAKE OVER THE LIMIT FOR > MEDICAID AND FOOD STAMPS. > > > > > > On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Josh Gregory wrote: > >> I think you replied to the wrong thread :) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 11:02 AM, christopher nusbaum < >> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Good luck in Europe! God bless! >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 10:45 AM, Deb Mendelsohn >> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, its FREE! >>>> >>>> Deb >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:57 AM, christopher nusbaum < >>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Oh, I see. Are you just going to use email for the time being? >>>>> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On May 19, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Deb Mendelsohn >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Chris, >>>>>> Thanks for the info, however, I'm NOT interested in having either a >> cell >>>>> or >>>>>> land line phone at this time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Deb >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum < >> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Carly and Deb, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There is a national program like the one you describe called >> SafeLink. >>>>> If >>>>>>> you Google the name of this program, you should be able to find >>>>> information >>>>>>> on how to apply. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>>>>>> Public Relations Committee >>>>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>>>> Mihalakis >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 4:35 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; National >>>>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list; General discussion list >> for >>>>> ACB >>>>>>> members and friends where a wide range of topics from blindness to >>>>>>> politics, >>>>>>> issues of the day or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a >> free >>>>>>> form >>>>>>> discussion list.; Kristen Johnson; sharon Booker; sdekker; Barbara >>>>>>> McDonald; >>>>>>> Mitzi home >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CELL PHONE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Deb, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Where are you from? Here, in northern california's Alameda county, >> they >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> this program called lifeline, which furnishes low income people with >>>>> free >>>>>>> cellular service. So, perhaps, you might look into county programs? >>>>>>> Keep us posted! >>>>>>> loving, for today, Car06:58 AM 5/18/2013, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >>>>>>>> H >>>>>>>> ello everyone, unfortunately due to budget cuts, I can no longer >>>>>>>> afford a phone. I am ineligble for Medicaid or Federal funding >> (There >>>>>>>> is such a free phone program that I am ineligible for). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My contact email remains as follows: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>> DEB MENDELSOHN >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >>>>> . >>>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>>>>> om >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon May 20 16:12:32 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:12:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Style Show Application (you guys actually do read what I send? :) ) Message-ID: Hi all, Sorry the attachment didn't send yesterday. Also thanks to those who got a hold of me off-line and told me about it :). Have a great day! Darian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NOPBC 2013 Style Show Application - Students.doc Type: application/msword Size: 28672 bytes Desc: not available URL: From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 20 16:22:09 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another In-Reply-To: <67DDA89106D34478A3DB92C109E73F9D@OwnerPC> References: <519a325d.c505310a.6b52.ffff8a30@mx.google.com> <67DDA89106D34478A3DB92C109E73F9D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Sophie, As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I used it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope that answers your question. Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of Braille courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls with Pam Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual trainee where they are in each of the class areas and build on those skills. So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building up other skills. HTH! On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 20 16:24:46 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:24:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: <89AB75E3-1957-48CE-8703-D107A21AFD6C@gmail.com> References: <785DE783-704E-43AD-A7B3-B98C6C203843@gmail.com> <89AB75E3-1957-48CE-8703-D107A21AFD6C@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's my backup screenreader. For the most part even without the plug-ins or add-ons it does a pretty good job, though personally I prefer Jaws because I'm more familiar with it. I don't really know if one is necessarily better than the other but they're both decent screenreaders. On 5/20/13, Josh Gregory wrote: > Personally I use it a lot. It's free and it has most of the functionality of > jaws if you can find good addons for it. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 11:43 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" > wrote: > >> I use the two in conjunction. When one doesn't work, the other always >> comes in handy :-) >> >> Sent from my iPhone 4S using VoiceOver >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Justin Young wrote: >> >>> Hi All! >>> >>> I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA? Is it better than >>> JAWS? I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages >>> related to this topic. Thanks as always for your feedback! >>> >>> Justin >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dandrews at visi.com Mon May 20 16:23:19 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:23:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] BANA Accepts Two New Member Organizations and Approves Addition to Nemeth Code Message-ID: Press Release May 2013 For Immediate Release --- CONTACT: Frances Mary D’Andrea, Chair Braille Authority of North America Phone: 412-521-5797 Email: literacy2 at mindspring.com Recent Actions: BANA Accepts Two New Member Organizations and Approves Addition to Nemeth Code The Braille Authority of North America (BANA) held its 2013 spring meeting April 11 – 13 in Washington, D.C. The National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NLS), a BANA member organization, hosted the meeting at the Library of Congress. During its three-day meeting, the BANA Board reviewed and acted on semiannual reports from its eighteen committees, considered committee recommendations, and deliberated issues and challenges facing braille users and producers. The UEB Task Force reported on the development of a plan for the transition to UEB in the United States as well as the collaborative steps that have been taken to initiate dialogue and planning among the various braille communities that will be impacted. Actions taken at the Board Meeting included the following: The review and approval of a major revision of the organization’s entire set of bylaws and policies as recommended after intense study by the BANA Bylaws Committee. Approval of the applications for two new member organizations: the Council of Schools for the Blind (COSB) and the Hadley School for the Blind. BANA welcomes both of these organizations and looks forward to working with them. Approval of a recommendation from BANA’s Braille Mathematics Technical Committee that the following be added to the Nemeth Code: “Rule XIV, §86c. When the expression being modified is a single digit or a letter, lower-case or capitalized, from any alphabet, and in any type form, and when the modifier is the horizontal bar directly under such a single digit or letter, the digit or letter, followed by the directly under symbol and the bar, serves to express the modification. This construction should be regarded as a contracted form of expression and must be used whenever applicable. If the modification includes a superscript, subscript, or prime, the five-step rule of a above must be followed. The five-step rule may be used in conjunction with the contracted form without fear of confusion.” On Saturday morning, BANA hosted an Open Forum at the Arlington Public Library, Arlington, VA. The forum was quite well attended by DC area braille readers, students, and teachers. Participants also traveled from West Virginia and Maryland to attend. BANA Board members and forum participants engaged in a dynamic dialogue that centered on the characteristics of UEB and the coming transition. The tone of the forum was extremely upbeat with numerous questions and comments about the importance and future of braille; the well-spoken students added their individual and open-minded perspectives. For additional resource information, visit www.brailleauthority.org The Board of BANA consists of appointed representatives from fifteen member organizations of braille producers, transcribers, teachers, and consumers. The mission of the Braille Authority of North America is to assure literacy for tactile readers through the standardization of braille and/or tactile graphics. The purpose of BANA is to promote and to facilitate the uses, teaching, and production of braille. Pursuant to this purpose, BANA will promulgate rules, make interpretations, and render opinions pertaining to braille codes and guidelines for the provisions of literary and technical materials and related forms and formats of embossed materials now in existence or to be developed in the future for the use of blind persons in North America. When appropriate, BANA shall accomplish these activities in international collaboration with countries using English braille. In exercising its function and authority, BANA shall consider the effects of its decisions on other existing braille codes and guidelines, forms and formats; ease of production by various methods; and acceptability to readers. From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon May 20 16:33:26 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:33:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another In-Reply-To: References: <519a325d.c505310a.6b52.ffff8a30@mx.google.com> <67DDA89106D34478A3DB92C109E73F9D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <76C4BA50-4D64-4343-B9AF-B83E668A4F0F@gmail.com> It can connect to a wireless printer if it is Bluetooth, but that's it. Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 12:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> Sophie, >> I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training >> center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk >> to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on >> attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB >> so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >> Trist >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >> To: nabs >> Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one >> another >> >> dear List, >> >> As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >> but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >> know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >> anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >> don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >> if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB >> training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and >> I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >> technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >> and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >> wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >> center. Any answer will be appreciated. >> >> Best, >> Sophie Trist >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 20 16:33:20 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:33:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as well. On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for free. On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: > It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you sign > up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable accommodations. > A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant (provided > by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what each rock looks > like. Then, when test time came, you would have to remember the descriptions > and also weight when appropriate, and identify the rock based on information > you ask for, such as what color is it or does it have any marbling. > This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to take > the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just finished a > geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first course (microbiology > )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, the disability office > assigned me a lab assistant and many of the things that we were looking at > under the microscope also had a tactile drawing. These accommodations helped > me get a B in the class. What I am trying to say is that if microscope work > can be made accessible, surely so can rock geology. > If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't fight this > discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight harder if you want > this class. You could go to the dean of students, a local disability > efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your NFB state president. > Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is to > stand up for your right to take any class you have met the prerequisites > for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go smoothly, you could be > looking at a lawsuit. > Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books you > will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books would be to > send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select Contact Us, then > select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. Tell them the book's > title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its ISBN. Processing a textbook > request is fast, but it takes two to three months before the book will be > available through Bookshare. I have used this method when I knew the book > far enough in advance, and the books are gufg-quality scans. The only > drawback is the lack of alternative descriptions for pictures. Another > method of obtaining your books is by requesting that the disability office > provide you with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will > take a copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each > page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they go > over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes add > alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as soon as > possible, because most disability offices have to process a very large > number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office does this before > you purchase the books. > I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! > -Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > >> -- >> Joshua T Hendrickson >> >> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close to >> getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to take, >> is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor and I >> was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all about rocks >> and things like that. The Dean of The science department had >> suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the upcoming >> class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. He told >> gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different rocks apart. >> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I should >> take this class, because the lady who taught the class was supportive >> and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want to take an >> online class, because I don't know how accessible it will be with >> jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was kind of set >> up like what the online course would look like, but it was very >> confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as assignments, or >> discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure out if jaws will >> be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to meet tomorrow >> with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see if I should >> take this class, although, I am already registered for the lecture >> based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't even want me in >> his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible textbooks for >> either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for reading this >> message. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Mon May 20 17:07:55 2013 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 13:07:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really want to take it then go for it! Zunaira -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as well. On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for free. On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: > It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you > sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable accommodations. > A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant > (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what > each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to > remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and > identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color is it or does it have any marbling. > This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to > take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just > finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first > course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, > the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the > things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile > drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I > am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, surely so can rock geology. > If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't > fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight > harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a > local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your NFB state president. > Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is > to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the > prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go > smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. > Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books > you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books > would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select > Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its > ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three > months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have > used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the > books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of > alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining > your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you > with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a > copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each > page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they > go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes > add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as > soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a > very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office does this before you purchase the books. > I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! > -Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > >> -- >> Joshua T Hendrickson >> >> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor >> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department >> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different rocks apart. >> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want >> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to >> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see >> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >> reading this message. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon May 20 17:29:29 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:29:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go ahead and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or dean for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating against other students in the future. There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, distinguish the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We can help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and support from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the accommodations for you. Arielle On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? > You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or > something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with > your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really > want to take it then go for it! > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no > right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and > choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to > take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you > and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove > then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which > your DS office should be able to help you with as well. > > On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need > and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your > DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to > check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology > course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile > diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and > save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects > of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free > loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS > might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for > free. > > On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable > accommodations. >> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color > is it or does it have any marbling. >> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to > >> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, > >> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile > >> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, > surely so can rock geology. >> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a > >> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your > NFB state president. >> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select > >> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > >> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three > >> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office > does this before you purchase the books. >> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >> -Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson > wrote: >> >>> -- >>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>> >>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor > >>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department > >>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different > rocks apart. >>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want > >>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to > >>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see > >>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>> reading this message. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From sgermano at asu.edu Mon May 20 18:59:11 2013 From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:59:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: I am sure it is for a science requirement to graduate so it can not be any class. I would take it up with disabled student services, then I would go to dean of the geology then I would go up the ladder until I got that instructor on probation or fired. The instructor would be fired if he said someone could not take the class because they were black yet they can get away with discriminating against blind. On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Wasif, Zunaira < Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote: > You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? > You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or > something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with > your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really > want to take it then go for it! > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no > right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and > choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to > take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you > and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove > then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which > your DS office should be able to help you with as well. > > On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need > and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your > DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to > check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology > course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile > diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and > save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects > of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free > loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS > might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for > free. > > On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: > > It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you > > sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable > accommodations. > > A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant > > (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what > > each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to > > remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and > > identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color > is it or does it have any marbling. > > This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to > > > take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just > > finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first > > course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, > > > the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the > > things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile > > > drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I > > am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, > surely so can rock geology. > > If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't > > fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight > > harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a > > > local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your > NFB state president. > > Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is > > to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the > > prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go > > smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. > > Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books > > you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books > > would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select > > > Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > > > Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its > > ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three > > > months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have > > used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the > > books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of > > alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining > > your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you > > with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a > > copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each > > page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they > > go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes > > add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as > > soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a > > very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office > does this before you purchase the books. > > I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! > > -Jewel > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson > wrote: > > > >> -- > >> Joshua T Hendrickson > >> > >> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close > >> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to > >> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor > > >> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all > >> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department > > >> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The > >> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is > >> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, > >> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet > >> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the > >> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. > >> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different > rocks apart. > >> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in > >> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn > >> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science > >> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class > >> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I > >> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was > >> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want > > >> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will > >> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was > >> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it > >> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as > >> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure > >> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to > > >> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see > > >> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for > >> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't > >> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible > >> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for > >> reading this message. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g > >> mail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > > 40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Mon May 20 19:07:48 2013 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:07:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <19987B73-F692-410E-9E46-88546A7045F6@gmail.com> Hello, This is asolutely not OK.I am a zoology major and thus have to take a bunch of incredibly visual classes where I've had to fight a lot of battles with instructors. Your university legally cannot push you around like that and I have a multitude of suggestions for you. If you would like, you may write me off list and we can chat further from there. My email is blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Aleeha Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 14:59, Suzanne Germano wrote: > I am sure it is for a science requirement to graduate so it can not be any > class. > > I would take it up with disabled student services, then I would go to dean > of the geology then I would go up the ladder until I got that instructor on > probation or fired. > > The instructor would be fired if he said someone could not take the class > because they were black yet they can get away with discriminating against > blind. > > > On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Wasif, Zunaira < > Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote: > >> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >> want to take it then go for it! >> Zunaira >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and >> choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to >> take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you >> and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove >> then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which >> your DS office should be able to help you with as well. >> >> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your >> DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to >> check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology >> course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile >> diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and >> save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects >> of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free >> loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS >> might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for >> free. >> >> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >> accommodations. >>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color >> is it or does it have any marbling. >>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to >> >>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, >> >>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile >> >>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >> surely so can rock geology. >>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a >> >>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >> NFB state president. >>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select >> >>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >> >>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three >> >>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >> does this before you purchase the books. >>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>> -Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >> wrote: >>> >>>> -- >>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>> >>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor >> >>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department >> >>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >> rocks apart. >>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want >> >>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to >> >>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see >> >>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>> reading this message. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Mon May 20 19:24:53 2013 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 14:24:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question Message-ID: Hello everybody, I have been waitlisted at a law school. I am just wondering how long do you think is typical to wait before making other concrete plans? Thank you all, Jordan Richardson -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon May 20 19:54:34 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 14:54:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother Message-ID: <519a7fab.e2923a0a.71da.1b26@mx.google.com> Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From jty727 at gmail.com Mon May 20 19:55:40 2013 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:55:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: References: <785DE783-704E-43AD-A7B3-B98C6C203843@gmail.com> <89AB75E3-1957-48CE-8703-D107A21AFD6C@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks all for your thoughts/feedback! On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > It's my backup screenreader. For the most part even without the > plug-ins or add-ons it does a pretty good job, though personally I > prefer Jaws because I'm more familiar with it. I don't really know if > one is necessarily better than the other but they're both decent > screenreaders. > > On 5/20/13, Josh Gregory wrote: >> Personally I use it a lot. It's free and it has most of the functionality >> of >> jaws if you can find good addons for it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 11:43 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" >> wrote: >> >>> I use the two in conjunction. When one doesn't work, the other always >>> comes in handy :-) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 4S using VoiceOver >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Justin Young wrote: >>> >>>> Hi All! >>>> >>>> I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA? Is it better than >>>> JAWS? I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages >>>> related to this topic. Thanks as always for your feedback! >>>> >>>> Justin >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 20 20:44:48 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:44:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother In-Reply-To: <519a7fab.e2923a0a.71da.1b26@mx.google.com> References: <519a7fab.e2923a0a.71da.1b26@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. Basically all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it with the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. Then the printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands from there. Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or infrared will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to > one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon May 20 21:04:56 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother In-Reply-To: References: <519a7fab.e2923a0a.71da.1b26@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly how you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had been in Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I didn't need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really needed more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class first thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that class which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they agreed. I still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to practice slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test out completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my fiancee in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible enough to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test out of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the required projects quickly. I know some students who have come with excellent cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest of their training on the other classes. Best, Arielle On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've >> never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you >> explain that to me please? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated >> to oneanother >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless >> printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I >> used >> it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the >> printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope >> that >> answers your question. >> >> Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of >> Braille >> courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls >> with Pam >> Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual >> trainee >> where they are in each of the class areas and build on those >> skills. >> So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of >> unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building >> up >> other skills. >> >> HTH! >> >> On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> Sophie, >> I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB >> training >> center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that >> you talk >> to the director of which ever training center that you are >> planning on >> attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I >> attended CCB >> so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sophie >> Trist >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >> To: nabs >> Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to >> one >> another >> >> dear List, >> >> As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >> but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >> know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >> anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >> don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >> if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns >> NFB >> training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and >> I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >> technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >> and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >> wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >> center. Any answer will be appreciated. >> >> Best, >> Sophie Trist >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon May 20 21:19:33 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:19:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother Message-ID: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com> Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB directly after graduating high school and train during the summer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. Basically all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it with the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. Then the printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands from there. Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or infrared will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon May 20 21:24:37 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:24:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother In-Reply-To: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com> References: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: The adult programs are open all year and you can start and end whenever you want. They also have summer programs for high school students and recent graduates. Many people go through the high school summer program right after graduation and then stay at the center for another 6-9 months to complete the adult program as well. However, you could also do an adult program just for the summer. You won't have an official graduation after only two months, but you will still learn a lot Arielle On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. > Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it > with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or > infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to > one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon May 20 21:32:13 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:32:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hopefully some lawyers will help you with this, but I know that in psychology, all admissions decisions have to be made by April 15. So students who are wait-listed and don't hear from schools by that date have to assume they haven't been accepted. Perhaps psychology is ahead of other programs, though, especially since they provide graduate fellowships. Best of luck! Arielle On 5/20/13, Jordan Richardson wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I have been waitlisted at a law school. I am just wondering how long do > you think is typical to wait before making other concrete plans? > > Thank you all, > Jordan Richardson > > -- > Jordan Richardson > President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." > ~*Frederick > Douglass* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From jsoro620 at gmail.com Mon May 20 21:44:17 2013 From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 17:44:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01eb01ce55a3$2deefbb0$89ccf310$@gmail.com> A friend of mine was wait listed at Harvard Law and was picked up almost at the last minute that following August. Mind you, this may've been the extreme exception, but if it happened once.... Most graduate programs are interested in filling their slots. Good luck, and congratulations on getting a tentative nod.--Joe -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Richardson Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Lawyers List; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question Hello everybody, I have been waitlisted at a law school. I am just wondering how long do you think is typical to wait before making other concrete plans? Thank you all, Jordan Richardson -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com From jsoro620 at gmail.com Mon May 20 21:58:49 2013 From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 17:58:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Before the Black: Dealing with Impending Blindness Message-ID: <01f401ce55a5$363fd1c0$a2bf7540$@gmail.com> What's worse, to be born without any sight or to grow up seeing and realize soon you will not be able to? Blindness is a complex animal, because there are varying stages of "legal blindness." There are a number of medical conditions that can result in loss of sight, but no matter the cause, I have embraced the idea that blindness in any form does not have to spell the end of a person's usefulness. But, of course: Beliefs aren't really convictions until they are sincerely tested. Memories of what I could once see bring a degree of comfort. I remember what it was like to be able to sit in the back of a classroom and make out the writing on a blackboard. I remember the distinct color of the balls against the green felt of a pool table, and as mundane as it may sound, there was something empowering about reading a license plate from down the street. This was second only to the ability to jump on my bike and take that street as fast as my feet could peddle. Ironically, it was a biking accident at the neighborhood park that finally got through to my adolescent mind that something was wrong with my eyes. Over time the situation became more complicated. Visits to the optometrist led to appointments with the ophthalmologist, and regular eye exams turned into regular surgical procedures. The once vivid blues, greens, and reds of the world around me slowly faded into something lackluster, lifeless. My senior year in high school, after many failed attempts to stay on top of the glaucoma, a procedure was performed that has more or less kept things in check for the past twelve years. The headaches went away. My field of vision stabilized. My sight was worse off than it had ever been, but at least I could rest easy that a routine eye exam would not result in my going in for yet another surgery. I've never really gotten the hang of explaining visual acuity. How do you explain to someone the ability to note that someone is sitting next to you but not the ability to distinguish facial expressions? I transitioned into my teens with teachers who assumed my eye reports meant I may as well be completely blind. I met and hung out with friends who made the same assumptions because of my efficient use of first the white cane and later a guide dog. I believe this may be true of my own family, and so how do you begin to explain the loss of something the people around you thought had disappeared a long time ago? Every little bit counts. In the sunlight it is still possible for me to make out some facial features. Others may not get it, but I appreciate the value of using the sun's reflection off the metal grate to find the escalators to the subway station near my office. Others may not understand, but I enjoy the ability to look for the rectangle of light in the otherwise dim station to find the entrance to the train. I use the contrast of the grass and sidewalk to keep myself in a straight line, and the contrast of colors against that sidewalk makes it possible for me to walk around people instead of into them. I still flip on lights to distinguish between my light gray suit and the charcoal. These are examples of what I can still see, and they are stark reminders of what I now find myself slowly losing. Have I relied too much on my sight? I don't know. I've used my sight to the extent I am capable, but since I have not been able to read print in years, I haven't exactly been straining my eyes. I've used what is available to me and put the rest on my ears, nose and hands to work out. It seems foolish to me not to utilize what you still possess to navigate unfamiliar environments--provided you never put too much dependence on any one of your five senses. So, what the heck's the point of this latest rant? Maybe it's a green light for someone in a similar situation to allow themselves to feel bummed about losing the ability to see. I don't have a lot of sight left, but yes, it makes me sad to think it is only a matter of time before this too goes away. Knowing and appreciating the simple concept of color is something for which I am blessed to have experienced firsthand. Maybe it's a reminder to myself that despite occasional reports of new surgeries and medical advances, I could never gamble away what I have held onto for so long. In my case the point is moot, because my remaining eye has undergone so much damage from past surgeries that emerging treatments would likely make my condition worse. Or, maybe, it's a reminder that despite the gloom, things really do turn out alright. It has not been lost on me that my life would have turned out dramatically different if I had never acquired a visual impairment. A gift? I'm probably too cynical to call blindness a gift, but if gifts are measured by the value of people and experiences, then yes, I reckon it's one of the best gifts I've ever received. As to how you deal with the unavoidable, I think you have to keep challenging yourself. List the things that make blindness scary, and break them up into tasks that erode the unknown. Just the other day I went and found a McDonald's I knew to be near my office. It would be easy to rely on the cafeteria in my building because it's convenient, because it's familiar, and maybe because it is safe. I successfully found the restaurant. Once inside I wandered around a bit but eventually found the counter without assistance. If I go again, perhaps I will learn the order of the drinks at the soda fountains. I should probably figure out where the trash goes in case I ever decide to eat there. These are exercises you force yourself to tackle as a matter of course, but they are especially important when you need to overcome change. What this post is not is a cry for pity. I can afford to feel sad because no one will experience the change as keenly as me. I think it's healthy to mourn the persistent loss of a physical ability. I would make a horrible therapist on account of my no nonsense approach to overcoming challenges, but even a no BS character like me can now recognize the value of taking a moment to reflect before jumping to the point of bucking up. Sighted people wonder why I would be impacted by something I have not fully enjoyed in years. Blind people would be tempted to point out I can do anything if I put my mind to it. I am content to know what I had, what I still possess and what I might use moving forward. I think about the victims in Boston who are dealing with the loss of a limb. Life will change in small and large ways. Truth be told, it really sucks, but after a healthy period of mourning, you have to reacquaint yourself with the reality that you control the circumstance, not the other way around. From gpaikens at gmail.com Mon May 20 22:20:52 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:20:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother In-Reply-To: References: <519a7fab.e2923a0a.71da.1b26@mx.google.com> Message-ID: This depends on what model of braille note you have. The Apex can connect to a printer via bluetooth. The MPower has the infrared option, but as far as I can tell they removed this from the Apex. Neither can print over wifi. -Greg On May 20, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've >> never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you >> explain that to me please? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated >> to oneanother >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless >> printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I >> used >> it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the >> printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope >> that >> answers your question. >> >> Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of >> Braille >> courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls >> with Pam >> Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual >> trainee >> where they are in each of the class areas and build on those >> skills. >> So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of >> unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building >> up >> other skills. >> >> HTH! >> >> On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> Sophie, >> I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB >> training >> center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that >> you talk >> to the director of which ever training center that you are >> planning on >> attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I >> attended CCB >> so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sophie >> Trist >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >> To: nabs >> Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to >> one >> another >> >> dear List, >> >> As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >> but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >> know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >> anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >> don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >> if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns >> NFB >> training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and >> I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >> technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >> and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >> wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >> center. Any answer will be appreciated. >> >> Best, >> Sophie Trist >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From amc05111 at gmail.com Mon May 20 22:37:25 2013 From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley Coleman) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:37:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Justin, I use NVDA and think it is better than JAWS in many ways. Ashley On 5/20/13, Justin Young wrote: > Hi All! > > I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA? Is it better than > JAWS? I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages > related to this topic. Thanks as always for your feedback! > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com > From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon May 20 22:42:20 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:42:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1CB473E0-60F6-43A5-ACBB-054619F0751B@gmail.com> Definitely agree Ashley. Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 6:37 PM, Ashley Coleman wrote: > Hi Justin, > I use NVDA and think it is better than JAWS in many ways. > Ashley > > On 5/20/13, Justin Young wrote: >> Hi All! >> >> I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA? Is it better than >> JAWS? I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages >> related to this topic. Thanks as always for your feedback! >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From ashleymuzicyeah at att.net Mon May 20 23:19:46 2013 From: ashleymuzicyeah at att.net (Ashley Griggs) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? Message-ID: <1369091986.7252.YahooMailClassic@web181001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! Thanks, Ashley. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon May 20 23:22:06 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:22:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother In-Reply-To: <519a7fab.e2923a0a.71da.1b26@mx.google.com> References: <519a7fab.e2923a0a.71da.1b26@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2562BFE3AB3648F9A31B52ACAA5D8257@OwnerPC> Infrared is a type of wireless connection. The braille note m power can print to a infared printer. -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From gloria.graves at gmail.com Mon May 20 23:52:20 2013 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:52:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls Message-ID: <72CB6E3AC4AF44B9AFC71EA99306FFAA@Gloria> Hi all, I just got a new computer and am wanting to enstall a good fire wall that is also JAWs friendly. At one point I had AVG, but have heard that there are some free ones out there. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance! Gloria From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue May 21 00:04:24 2013 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:04:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. In-Reply-To: <6060150836938975672@unknownmsgid> References: <95C25B7C5A3D41EFBCE3E54765C310C8@WildJasmine> <3D08B88FE87B426799B9CF077698F9F4@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130518194320.01c18b88@comcast.net> <802F8BD6-4C9A-4C1A-9FFC-EB471B97939B@gmail.com> <6590A99C-B5BD-4E91-B227-783428F0B441@gmail.com> <510B8A43-B8A4-456F-AEB7-7687644099A4@samobile.net> <64931586E1624034804B539E4ECCA161@WildJasmine> <6060150836938975672@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4F4ACD48-E2E4-4520-AEE0-A2836E5549FF@samobile.net> I agree. That was definitely not necessary. Peter produces excellent recordings. I think you'll do the organization well in your step when you're not available. And for the record, I don't find him difficult. Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 8:39 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > FYI, he's on this list... just saying. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 9:36 AM, David Dunphy wrote: > >> If you want to deal with a difficult person, I'd recommend him. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi Moerke" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:45 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> >>> If no one writes, I'd recommend Peter Donahue who does many of the convention recordings. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 19, 2013, at 3:10 PM, Darian Smith wrote: >>> >>>> If anyone is interested in being a backup recorder, please contact me off-list and we'll figure it out. >>>> Thanks so much, >>>> Darian >>>> On May 19, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Darian, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for explaining this process with the NABS membership. It sounds as though you have a good process in place as it concerns the recording of the conference calls. I hope that all individuals involved can respect this process. >>>>> >>>>> I happen to be someone who is a bit wary of being recorded and having this recording be distributed to everyone online. Because of this, I thought it would be nice to receive permission from the guest speaker before the recording was distributed to everyone online. Perhaps the guest speaker would have no problem with this, but I think she should have the right to know that the conference call was being recorded when there was no announcement about it being recorded prior to the call. I think doing such a thing is simply a means of showing respect to the guest speaker. If we are not willing to show respect to our guest speakers then it may be difficult to find guest speakers for our conference calls in the future. >>>>> >>>>> But thank you Darian for serving on the membership committee and working hard to make these conference calls a reality. I know that the membership committee works hard behind the scenes to make these conference calls happen, and I deeply appreciate all the hard work that you and the membership committee do to make these conference calls a reality. >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Darian Smith" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:19 AM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I apologize for getting to this thread as last as I have, but today has been a long one, with A chapter meeting and a few other things. >>>>>> Let me first say that it is not the intention of NABS or the Membership committee to withhold information that can be useful to those we serve. >>>>>> For my part, I was not made aware that the call was going to be streamed or recorded, nor do I remember the participants of the call being given any heads-up that the call would be recorded. >>>>>> if the participants communicate that they are alright with the recording being distributed, then I think it's fine. I'll check with both the speakers of this call to make sure they are fie with it too. >>>>>> I feel the need to correct some misunderstandings as it relates to some of the NABS thought process regarding recordings. >>>>>> We feel that every program that we do should be aimed towards benefitting every student, and that anyone who wants to be a part of creating, running and supporting our programs should be welcomed to do so, because these programs are programs that belong to everyone. >>>>>> We see the NABS membership calls as a successful part of those programs and appreciate the hard work our committee members and guests put into it. >>>>>> an essential part of the success of these Calls is David Dunphy, as he generously gives of his time and resources to make sure that those who cannot join us on these informative confrence calls gets the chance to listen live via his stream, and after the event via recorded audio. >>>>>> In order to insure that each person takes advantage of these options, we ask that We simply be provided with confirmation that his services will be available as well as the links to the appropriate resources. >>>>>> We also ask that should something arise where Our audio access expert might not be available to record the call, that notice be given to the committee before letting the entirety of the NABS membership know that he will be absent. >>>>>> >>>>>> We ask for information prior to it going public, so that we are insuring that we are ahead of any potential concerns, not behind them. >>>>>> We also ask, so we can be sure to communicate any changes with our membership immediately. >>>>>> Because these announcements don't just go to the NABS-L list, they go to many other lists, we want to make sure that the information reaches those interested individuals too. >>>>>> I understand and am well aware that the consistency of notification of, and execution of call recordings has not been near as up to par as anyone would like, and as chair of the membership committee, I apologize to each of you. >>>>>> My expectation of how we operate includes communication and accountability, standards I will strive to model, if I have not done this toan acceptable level. >>>>>> If anyone (David included) has any concerns, questions or suggestions, please do bring them to me off-list so that we can get the heart of the matter in the most civil and productive way possible. >>>>>> I thank you all for your thoughts, opinions and concerns. If we keep asking, questioning and collaborating, we will continue to build a brighter future for ourselves, and generations of students that will come after us. >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Darian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 18, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Arielle, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a feat.One could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted during such calls. Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, simply because some people failed to see plans to post the call. >>>>>>> for today, Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >>>>>>>> live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >>>>>>>> So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or >>>>>>>> permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >>>>>>>> multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >>>>>>>> always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the >>>>>>>> call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >>>>>>>> withheld from the membership for this reason. >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>> David, >>>>>>>>> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and > also >>>>>>>>> record the nabs calls. >>>>>>>>> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >>>>>>>>> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via > the >>>>>>>>> computer and phone lines. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: David Dunphy >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him > and the >>>>>>>>> membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've > recorded it >>>>>>>>> or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the >>>>>>>>> call. >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello David, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording >> of >>>>>>>>>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right >> for you >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>>>>>>>>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right >> to >>>>>>>>>> distribute it to other people. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> From: "David Dunphy" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>>>>>>>>>> people want it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon May 20 00:12:25 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:12:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one right afterwards. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go ahead and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or dean for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating against other students in the future. There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, distinguish the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We can help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and support from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the accommodations for you. Arielle On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? > You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or > something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with > your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really > want to take it then go for it! > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no > right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick > and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you > need to take then your disability services people need to help > advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if > push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about > that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as well. > > On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need > and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, > your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want > to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a > geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of > tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you > need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on > otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also > available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done > with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which > you can also borrow for free. > > On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable > accommodations. >> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >> color > is it or does it have any marbling. >> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >> to > >> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >> However, > >> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >> tactile > >> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, > surely so can rock geology. >> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >> a > >> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your > NFB state president. >> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >> select > >> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > >> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >> three > >> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office > does this before you purchase the books. >> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >> -Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson > wrote: >> >>> -- >>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>> >>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>> counselor > >>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>> department > >>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different > rocks apart. >>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>> want > >>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>> to > >>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>> see > >>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>> reading this message. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> % >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 21 00:18:26 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:18:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the national center and just find out what's happening with that case and what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class without your consent. Arielle On 5/19/13, justin wrote: > I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one > right afterwards. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. > Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go > ahead > and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or > dean > for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's > up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth > thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating against > other students in the future. > There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, distinguish > the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We can > help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the > professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many > blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and > support > from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the > accommodations for you. > > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >> want to take it then go for it! >> Zunaira >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >> need to take then your disability services people need to help >> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as > well. >> >> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >> you can also borrow for free. >> >> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >> accommodations. >>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>> color >> is it or does it have any marbling. >>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>> to >> >>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>> However, >> >>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>> tactile >> >>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >> surely so can rock geology. >>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>> a >> >>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >> NFB state president. >>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>> select >> >>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >> >>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>> three >> >>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >> does this before you purchase the books. >>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>> -Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >> wrote: >>> >>>> -- >>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>> >>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>> counselor >> >>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>> department >> >>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >> rocks apart. >>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>> want >> >>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>> to >> >>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>> see >> >>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>> reading this message. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>> g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue May 21 00:20:44 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 00:20:44 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam] National Convention Room ates? In-Reply-To: <1369091986.7252.YahooMailClassic@web181001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1369091986.7252.YahooMailClassic@web181001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ashley! Welcome to the list! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! Thanks, Ashley. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From joshkart12 at gmail.com Tue May 21 00:54:33 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 20:54:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam] National Convention Room ates? In-Reply-To: References: <1369091986.7252.YahooMailClassic@web181001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A3FECD3-5AB3-4636-8D37-A541F5E20CC3@gmail.com> Oh for goodness sake, it's not spam. This young lady and I am sure many others like her are people that generally want a roommate for these conventions. We went through the same issue last year with another person and I just think it's really sad how people think it's spam when these are people that are generally asking for help. I'm sorry but that is how I feel and if you have a problem with me take it up with me privately, I'm not discussing anymore here. On May 20, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Ashley! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? > > Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! > Thanks, Ashley. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue May 21 00:57:34 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 00:57:34 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam] National Convention Room ates? In-Reply-To: <3A3FECD3-5AB3-4636-8D37-A541F5E20CC3@gmail.com> References: <1369091986.7252.YahooMailClassic@web181001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> , <3A3FECD3-5AB3-4636-8D37-A541F5E20CC3@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree! It appeared in my "junk" folder, so I had to bring it out! I hate it that some list E-Mails appear there! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 7:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam] National Convention Room ates? Oh for goodness sake, it's not spam. This young lady and I am sure many others like her are people that generally want a roommate for these conventions. We went through the same issue last year with another person and I just think it's really sad how people think it's spam when these are people that are generally asking for help. I'm sorry but that is how I feel and if you have a problem with me take it up with me privately, I'm not discussing anymore here. On May 20, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Ashley! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? > > Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! > Thanks, Ashley. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From chelseap08 at gmail.com Tue May 21 01:09:46 2013 From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 20:09:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam] National Convention Room ates? In-Reply-To: References: <1369091986.7252.YahooMailClassic@web181001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, welcome to the list! I hope you enjoy convention. Feel free to email me at chelseap08 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Ashley! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? > > Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! > Thanks, Ashley. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Tue May 21 01:14:25 2013 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:14:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls In-Reply-To: <72CB6E3AC4AF44B9AFC71EA99306FFAA@Gloria> References: <72CB6E3AC4AF44B9AFC71EA99306FFAA@Gloria> Message-ID: I'm not at my computer right now to check, but I remember using free AVG in the past. I think the website is: www.freeavg.com Sent from Anjelina's iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 7:52 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi all, > I just got a new computer and am wanting to enstall a good fire wall that is also JAWs friendly. At one point I had AVG, but have heard that there are some free ones out there. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance! > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue May 21 01:17:21 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:17:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net><002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B@OwnerPC> Arielle, that is terrible. Which sort of class was this? If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good case. Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an elective. As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and did not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes orally; that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not be able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific pages and passages to discuss points. My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and I called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and see if we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when my dss counselor called me to say Prof C came to her and she wanted to discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt that at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an appropriate class for me. Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that two professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was a major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor said that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take it with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x because it did not fit my schedule. For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, and I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me following her class with videos. Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up front with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even though I did not request it. It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She never said not to take it though. She was very curteous in her responses to me. Now, that lit professor was not! Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is resolved. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the national center and just find out what's happening with that case and what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class without your consent. Arielle On 5/19/13, justin wrote: > I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one > right afterwards. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. > Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go > ahead > and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or > dean > for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's > up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth > thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating > against > other students in the future. > There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, > distinguish > the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We > can > help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the > professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many > blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and > support > from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the > accommodations for you. > > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >> want to take it then go for it! >> Zunaira >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >> need to take then your disability services people need to help >> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as > well. >> >> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >> you can also borrow for free. >> >> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >> accommodations. >>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>> color >> is it or does it have any marbling. >>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>> to >> >>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>> However, >> >>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>> tactile >> >>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >> surely so can rock geology. >>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>> a >> >>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >> NFB state president. >>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>> select >> >>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >> >>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>> three >> >>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >> does this before you purchase the books. >>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>> -Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >> wrote: >>> >>>> -- >>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>> >>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>> counselor >> >>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>> department >> >>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >> rocks apart. >>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>> want >> >>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>> to >> >>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>> see >> >>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>> reading this message. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>> g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue May 21 01:28:09 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:28:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: <19987B73-F692-410E-9E46-88546A7045F6@gmail.com> References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <19987B73-F692-410E-9E46-88546A7045F6@gmail.com> Message-ID: If at all possible, a two-fold approach might be the best. By that I mean instead of just going up the first two rungs of the chain of command one at a time try to get your disability services and the dean to advocate for you at the same time since this guy seems so stubborn. Tell the ds office people that you know this is not okay and since you have perfectly valid reasons for wanting to take this geology course over the online one that there is nothing that would really keep you from being successful in the course provided that the professor gets his act together. Meanwhile, I'd schedule an appointment of the dean of the science department, or however your school is organized, to talk about this. If possible bring proof of the descrimination with you. If the disability service can vouch for you that he hasn't been willing to talk or work with them to help you then you'd have a pretty solid case. Most deans are pretty ethical people and get pretty upset when they find out one of their faculty members isn't doing what they should, especially if it's something as basic and common-sensical like this. Most schools have faculty policies that govern how faculty should work with studens with disabilities too, so if your professor needs to be reminded, for lack of a better term, of these policies then the dean would be the one to help you by communicating those to the professor. Then once the dean says his piece the people in the ds office can start to do their job, and the dean can step in later on as needed. I like Arielle's suggestion of getting the scoop on the Arizona student's case from national office too. Perhaps at least some of the same arguments will apply to you and your situation if you need to use them. Hopefully once your prof gets a talking to from your dean he'll change his tune and that will be all that is needed. I had this happen with a philosophy professor my first semester and the change after another student and I met with the dean was incredible. If the dean sees that this guy is blatantly being descriminant against you and knows you have the resources to go to the next level if need be he'll probably step in and be instrumental in fihelping you. Most schools will do anything to avoid a lawsuit which they wouldn't be able to win, so it might just take the dean coming down on the prof to set the record straight. I hope that's all it takes for you and you get this resolved with as little hassle as possible. Keep us posted if you have any other problems with it. On 5/20/13, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hello, > This is asolutely not OK.I am a zoology major and thus have to take a > bunch of incredibly visual classes where I've had to fight a lot of battles > with instructors. Your university legally cannot push you around like that > and I have a multitude of suggestions for you. If you would like, you may > write me off list and we can chat further from there. My email is > blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com > Aleeha > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 14:59, Suzanne Germano wrote: > >> I am sure it is for a science requirement to graduate so it can not be >> any >> class. >> >> I would take it up with disabled student services, then I would go to >> dean >> of the geology then I would go up the ladder until I got that instructor >> on >> probation or fired. >> >> The instructor would be fired if he said someone could not take the class >> because they were black yet they can get away with discriminating against >> blind. >> >> >> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Wasif, Zunaira < >> Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote: >> >>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>> want to take it then go for it! >>> Zunaira >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and >>> choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to >>> take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you >>> and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove >>> then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which >>> your DS office should be able to help you with as well. >>> >>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your >>> DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to >>> check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology >>> course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile >>> diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and >>> save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects >>> of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free >>> loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS >>> might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for >>> free. >>> >>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>> accommodations. >>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color >>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to >>> >>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, >>> >>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile >>> >>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>> surely so can rock geology. >>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a >>> >>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>> NFB state president. >>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select >>> >>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >>> >>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three >>> >>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>> -Jewel >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>> >>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor >>> >>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department >>> >>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>> rocks apart. >>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want >>> >>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to >>> >>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see >>> >>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>> reading this message. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From James.Dickman at loras.edu Tue May 21 01:38:00 2013 From: James.Dickman at loras.edu (James P. Dickman) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 01:38:00 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] I Am Looking For A Roomate Message-ID: Hello everyone, my name is James Dickman and I am looking for a roommate for the national convention is there anyone out there that is also looking for a roommate? Also I just joined the nabs mailing list, if someone can please reply to me, so I know that my message has been sent I would really appreciate it. Thank you James Dickman From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 21 01:38:38 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:38:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: <3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B@OwnerPC> References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> <3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: President Maurer talked about the Arizona case on last year's presidential report. The student's name is Sebastian Ibanez and I believe it was some kind of counseling psychology class, so I'm not sure what the issues were. Sebastian is an old friend of mine but we've lost contact, so I don't know more than that. I don't think it's discriminatory for a professor to share concerns with a blind student about accommodation problems. It is discriminatory for a professor to refuse to communicate with a student about accommodations or to forcibly drop a student from the class roster. At this point it sounds like Joshua is still signed up for the class, and can still attend even if the professor doesn't want him there. However, if the professor is unwilling to arrange necessary accommodations, or pressures Joshua into dropping the class, I believe that is still discriminatory behavior. Several years ago Stacy Cervenka, an old NABS member, talked about her experience taking a horseback riding class. She had a professor who bullied her, made rude comments to her in front of classmates, and strongly pressured her to drop. Stacy was very lucky that her DSS office is headed by a Federationist, who took prompt action to protect Stacy's right to remain in the class without harassment. So yes, discrimination in the college classroom is alive and well. We should all appreciate our professors who do abide by the law, and especially those who go out of their way to help us get the most out of their classes. And to the few who still give us trouble, we just have to keep standing up for ourselves. Arielle On 5/20/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Arielle, > that is terrible. Which sort of class was this? > If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good > case. > Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. > I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an elective. > > As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and did > > not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes orally; > that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the > experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not be > > able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific pages > > and passages to discuss points. > My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and I > called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and see if > > we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when my > dss counselor called me to say Prof C came to her and she wanted to > discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. > I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt that > at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an appropriate > > class for me. > > Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that two > > professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was a > major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor said > > that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take it > > with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual > online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x because > it did not fit my schedule. > For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, and > > I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their > concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be > accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me following > her class with videos. > Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up front > > with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even though I > > did not request it. > It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She never > said not to take it though. She was very curteous in her responses to me. > Now, that lit professor was not! > > Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is > resolved. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped > from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is > working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not > want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the > national center and just find out what's happening with that case and > what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class > without your consent. > > Arielle > > On 5/19/13, justin wrote: >> I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one >> right afterwards. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. >> Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go >> ahead >> and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or >> dean >> for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While >> it's >> up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth >> thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating >> against >> other students in the future. >> There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, >> distinguish >> the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We >> can >> help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the >> professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many >> blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and >> support >> from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the >> accommodations for you. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>> want to take it then go for it! >>> Zunaira >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >>> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >>> need to take then your disability services people need to help >>> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >>> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >>> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as >> well. >>> >>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >>> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >>> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >>> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >>> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >>> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >>> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >>> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >>> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >>> you can also borrow for free. >>> >>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>> accommodations. >>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>>> color >>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>>> to >>> >>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>>> However, >>> >>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>>> tactile >>> >>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>> surely so can rock geology. >>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>>> a >>> >>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>> NFB state president. >>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>>> select >>> >>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >>> >>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>>> three >>> >>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>> -Jewel >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>> >>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>>> counselor >>> >>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>>> department >>> >>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>> rocks apart. >>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>>> want >>> >>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>>> to >>> >>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>>> see >>> >>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>> reading this message. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>>> g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>> % >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 21 01:42:23 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:42:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> <3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Oh, and is it possible for you to get the geology professor's contact info and email or call him up yourself? Just tell him you're signed up for his class and that you want to know about textbooks assigned and the syllabus. If he doesn't answer you, or if he writes you an email stating he doesn't want you in his class, that's more evidence you've got. Arielle On 5/20/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > President Maurer talked about the Arizona case on last year's > presidential report. The student's name is Sebastian Ibanez and I > believe it was some kind of counseling psychology class, so I'm not > sure what the issues were. Sebastian is an old friend of mine but > we've lost contact, so I don't know more than that. > I don't think it's discriminatory for a professor to share concerns > with a blind student about accommodation problems. It is > discriminatory for a professor to refuse to communicate with a student > about accommodations or to forcibly drop a student from the class > roster. At this point it sounds like Joshua is still signed up for the > class, and can still attend even if the professor doesn't want him > there. However, if the professor is unwilling to arrange necessary > accommodations, or pressures Joshua into dropping the class, I believe > that is still discriminatory behavior. > Several years ago Stacy Cervenka, an old NABS member, talked about her > experience taking a horseback riding class. She had a professor who > bullied her, made rude comments to her in front of classmates, and > strongly pressured her to drop. Stacy was very lucky that her DSS > office is headed by a Federationist, who took prompt action to protect > Stacy's right to remain in the class without harassment. > So yes, discrimination in the college classroom is alive and well. We > should all appreciate our professors who do abide by the law, and > especially those who go out of their way to help us get the most out > of their classes. And to the few who still give us trouble, we just > have to keep standing up for ourselves. > > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Arielle, >> that is terrible. Which sort of class was this? >> If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good >> case. >> Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. >> I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an >> elective. >> >> As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and >> did >> >> not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes orally; >> that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the >> experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not >> be >> >> able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific >> pages >> >> and passages to discuss points. >> My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and I >> called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and see >> if >> >> we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when my >> dss counselor called me to say Prof C came to her and she wanted to >> discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. >> I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt >> that >> at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an >> appropriate >> >> class for me. >> >> Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that >> two >> >> professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was >> a >> major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor >> said >> >> that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take >> it >> >> with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual >> online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x >> because >> it did not fit my schedule. >> For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, >> and >> >> I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their >> concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be >> accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me following >> her class with videos. >> Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up >> front >> >> with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even though >> I >> >> did not request it. >> It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She never >> said not to take it though. She was very curteous in her responses to >> me. >> Now, that lit professor was not! >> >> Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is >> resolved. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped >> from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is >> working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not >> want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the >> national center and just find out what's happening with that case and >> what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class >> without your consent. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/19/13, justin wrote: >>> I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one >>> right afterwards. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. >>> Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go >>> ahead >>> and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or >>> dean >>> for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While >>> it's >>> up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth >>> thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating >>> against >>> other students in the future. >>> There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, >>> distinguish >>> the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We >>> can >>> help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the >>> professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that >>> many >>> blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and >>> support >>> from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the >>> accommodations for you. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >>>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>>> want to take it then go for it! >>>> Zunaira >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>> Shelton >>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>>> science class for next semester >>>> >>>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >>>> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >>>> need to take then your disability services people need to help >>>> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >>>> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >>>> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as >>> well. >>>> >>>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >>>> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >>>> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >>>> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >>>> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >>>> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >>>> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >>>> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >>>> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >>>> you can also borrow for free. >>>> >>>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>>> accommodations. >>>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>>>> color >>>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>>>> to >>>> >>>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>>>> However, >>>> >>>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>>>> tactile >>>> >>>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>>> surely so can rock geology. >>>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>>>> a >>>> >>>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>>> NFB state president. >>>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>>>> select >>>> >>>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >>>> >>>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>>>> three >>>> >>>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>>> -Jewel >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>>>> counselor >>>> >>>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>>>> department >>>> >>>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>>> rocks apart. >>>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>>>> want >>>> >>>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>>>> see >>>> >>>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>>> reading this message. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>>>> g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>>> % >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>>> fldoe.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > From louvins at gmail.com Tue May 21 02:12:09 2013 From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:12:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> <3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hello to all. I want to thank all of you for your great suggestions. I will let you all know how my meeting turns ut. I know what you mean when you talk about teachers who are willing to work with you to get the most from their class. My math teacher last semester was really good, he had no problems with me taking dvd's outside the class and completing the needed questions at home. He even did the tests with me orally so I had no problems there. I had great tutoring for the math homework so it wasn't hard for me to figure out the needed concepts. Thanks again all. On 5/20/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Oh, and is it possible for you to get the geology professor's contact > info and email or call him up yourself? Just tell him you're signed up > for his class and that you want to know about textbooks assigned and > the syllabus. If he doesn't answer you, or if he writes you an email > stating he doesn't want you in his class, that's more evidence you've > got. > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> President Maurer talked about the Arizona case on last year's >> presidential report. The student's name is Sebastian Ibanez and I >> believe it was some kind of counseling psychology class, so I'm not >> sure what the issues were. Sebastian is an old friend of mine but >> we've lost contact, so I don't know more than that. >> I don't think it's discriminatory for a professor to share concerns >> with a blind student about accommodation problems. It is >> discriminatory for a professor to refuse to communicate with a student >> about accommodations or to forcibly drop a student from the class >> roster. At this point it sounds like Joshua is still signed up for the >> class, and can still attend even if the professor doesn't want him >> there. However, if the professor is unwilling to arrange necessary >> accommodations, or pressures Joshua into dropping the class, I believe >> that is still discriminatory behavior. >> Several years ago Stacy Cervenka, an old NABS member, talked about her >> experience taking a horseback riding class. She had a professor who >> bullied her, made rude comments to her in front of classmates, and >> strongly pressured her to drop. Stacy was very lucky that her DSS >> office is headed by a Federationist, who took prompt action to protect >> Stacy's right to remain in the class without harassment. >> So yes, discrimination in the college classroom is alive and well. We >> should all appreciate our professors who do abide by the law, and >> especially those who go out of their way to help us get the most out >> of their classes. And to the few who still give us trouble, we just >> have to keep standing up for ourselves. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/20/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Arielle, >>> that is terrible. Which sort of class was this? >>> If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good >>> case. >>> Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. >>> I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an >>> elective. >>> >>> As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and >>> did >>> >>> not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes >>> orally; >>> that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the >>> experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not >>> be >>> >>> able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific >>> pages >>> >>> and passages to discuss points. >>> My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and >>> I >>> called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and >>> see >>> if >>> >>> we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when >>> my >>> dss counselor called me to say Prof C came to her and she wanted to >>> discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. >>> I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt >>> that >>> at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an >>> appropriate >>> >>> class for me. >>> >>> Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that >>> two >>> >>> professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was >>> a >>> major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor >>> said >>> >>> that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take >>> it >>> >>> with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual >>> online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x >>> because >>> it did not fit my schedule. >>> For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, >>> and >>> >>> I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their >>> concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be >>> accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me >>> following >>> her class with videos. >>> Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up >>> front >>> >>> with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even >>> though >>> I >>> >>> did not request it. >>> It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She >>> never >>> said not to take it though. She was very curteous in her responses to >>> me. >>> Now, that lit professor was not! >>> >>> Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is >>> resolved. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped >>> from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is >>> working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not >>> want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the >>> national center and just find out what's happening with that case and >>> what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class >>> without your consent. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/19/13, justin wrote: >>>> I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one >>>> right afterwards. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >>>> Silverman >>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>>> science class for next semester >>>> >>>> This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. >>>> Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go >>>> ahead >>>> and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or >>>> dean >>>> for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While >>>> it's >>>> up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth >>>> thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating >>>> against >>>> other students in the future. >>>> There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, >>>> distinguish >>>> the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We >>>> can >>>> help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the >>>> professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that >>>> many >>>> blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and >>>> support >>>> from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the >>>> accommodations for you. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >>>>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>>>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>>>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>>>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>>>> want to take it then go for it! >>>>> Zunaira >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>> Shelton >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>>>> science class for next semester >>>>> >>>>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>>>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >>>>> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >>>>> need to take then your disability services people need to help >>>>> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >>>>> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >>>>> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with >>>>> as >>>> well. >>>>> >>>>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>>>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >>>>> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >>>>> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >>>>> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >>>>> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >>>>> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >>>>> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >>>>> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >>>>> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >>>>> you can also borrow for free. >>>>> >>>>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>>>> accommodations. >>>>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>>>>> color >>>>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>>>>> However, >>>>> >>>>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>>>>> tactile >>>>> >>>>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>>>> surely so can rock geology. >>>>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>>>>> a >>>>> >>>>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>>>> NFB state president. >>>>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>>>>> select >>>>> >>>>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down >>>>>> menu. >>>>> >>>>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>>>>> three >>>>> >>>>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>>>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>>>> -Jewel >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>>>>> counselor >>>>> >>>>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>>>>> department >>>>> >>>>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>>>> rocks apart. >>>>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>>>>> want >>>>> >>>>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>>>>> see >>>>> >>>>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>>>> reading this message. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>>>>> g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>>>> % >>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>>>> fldoe.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com > -- Joshua T Hendrickson From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue May 21 02:15:17 2013 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 22:15:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I Am Looking For A Roomate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi welcome to the list. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James P. Dickman Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] I Am Looking For A Roomate Hello everyone, my name is James Dickman and I am looking for a roommate for the national convention is there anyone out there that is also looking for a roommate? Also I just joined the nabs mailing list, if someone can please reply to me, so I know that my message has been sent I would really appreciate it. Thank you James Dickman _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From James.Dickman at loras.edu Tue May 21 02:26:59 2013 From: James.Dickman at loras.edu (James P. Dickman) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 02:26:59 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] I Am Looking To Find a Roomate Message-ID: Hello, my name is James Dickman I am 20 years old, and I've been awarded a Jernigan Scholarship in order to help pay for my attendance to the NFB national convention. I am looking for a roommate is there anyone out there that also needs a roommate? I just subscribed to NABS so I hope that my message was sent successfully. Thank you, James Dickman From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue May 21 02:44:25 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:44:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother In-Reply-To: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com> References: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4E6BA4EB1B024A8EB6DAE37EFBA75DB0@OWNERPC> I went to Lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I sort of tested out of braille as well. when I started I learned to use the slate a little bit but it was so awkward I got frustrated with the thing and basically just didn't use the thing anymore. I tried for a long time but I just couldn't grasp the fact that with the slate you have to think backwards. Like with a brailer dots 1 through 3 are on the left and on the right is dots 4 through 6. With the slate it’s the other way around n -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB directly after graduating high school and train during the summer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. Basically all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it with the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. Then the printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands from there. Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or infrared will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From ashleymuzicyeah at att.net Tue May 21 02:46:08 2013 From: ashleymuzicyeah at att.net (Ashley Griggs) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] RELast I checked I wasn't spam. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1369104368.37160.YahooMailClassic@web181005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi, I think someone on the list already cleared this up. Thank you for that. Just for the record, I am definitely not spam. I'm an actual person who really is going to convention and asking about roommates. Sometimes what the internet has done to us as humans makes me sad. Let's try this again. Hi, I'm Ashley! Glad to be part of the list and looking forward to meeting as many of you as I can at convention. --- On Tue, 5/21/13, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: From: nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 79, Issue 26 To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date: Tuesday, May 21, 2013, 1:28 AM Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to     nabs-l at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at     nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." Today's Topics:    1. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college    science       class for next semester (Wasif, Zunaira)    2. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science       class for next semester (Arielle Silverman)    3. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science       class for next semester (Suzanne Germano)    4. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college    science       class for next semester (Aleeha Dudley)    5. Waitlist Question (Jordan Richardson)    6. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated to    oneanother       (Sophie Trist)    7. Re: NVDA (Justin Young)    8. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated to    oneanother       (Kaiti Shelton)    9. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated to    oneanother       (Arielle Silverman)   10. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated    tooneanother       (Sophie Trist)   11. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated    tooneanother       (Arielle Silverman)   12. Re: Waitlist Question (Arielle Silverman)   13. Re: Waitlist Question (Joe)   14. Before the Black: Dealing with Impending Blindness (Joe)   15. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated to    oneanother       (Greg Aikens)   16. Re: NVDA (Ashley Coleman)   17. Re: NVDA (Josh Gregory)   18. National Convention Room ates? (Ashley Griggs)   19. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated    tooneanother       (Ashley Bramlett)   20. Fire Walls (Gloria G)   21. Re: The Epic Philosophy call. (Jedi Moerke)   22. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college    science       class for next semester (justin)   23. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science       class for next semester (Arielle Silverman)   24. Re: [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates?       (Joshua Lester)   25. Re: [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? (Josh Gregory)   26. Re: [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates?       (Joshua Lester)   27. Re: [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? (Chelsea Page)   28. Re: Fire Walls (Anjelina)   29. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college    science       class for next semester (Ashley Bramlett)   30. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science       class for next semester (Kaiti Shelton) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 13:07:55 -0400 From: "Wasif, Zunaira" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college     science class for next semester Message-ID:     <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C at DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or something else you enjoy.  Perhaps you can discuss other options with your Dean.  Are you interested in this geology class?  If you really want to take it then go for it! Zunaira -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester I absolutely agree with what has been stated.  This professor has no right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and choose his sighted students, right?)  If this is the class you need to take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy.  And, if push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as well. On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your DS office, or somewhere else.  A few other places you might want to check are APH and the library of congress.  I have never taken a geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects of your textbooks.  A lot of APH's books are also available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class.  NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for free. On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: > It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you > sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable accommodations. > A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant > (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what > each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to > remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and > identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color is it or does it have any marbling. > This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to > take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just > finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first > course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, > the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the > things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile > drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I > am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, surely so can rock geology. > If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't > fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight > harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a > local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your NFB state president. > Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is > to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the > prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go > smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. > Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books > you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books > would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select > Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its > ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three > months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have > used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the > books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of > alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining > your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you > with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a > copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each > page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they > go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes > add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as > soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a > very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office does this before you purchase the books. > I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! > -Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > >> -- >> Joshua T Hendrickson >> >> Hello to all.  I'm glad to be a part of this list.  I am very close >> to getting my Associates of Arts degree.  The only class I need to >> take, is a geology science class with no lab.  I met with a counselor >> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >> about rocks and things like that.  The Dean of The science department >> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem.  The >> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class.  This is >> extremely frustrating.  I had went to my disability support office, >> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone.  >> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different rocks apart. >> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class.  Lynn >> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >> called geology of the solar system.  Lynn told me she thought I >> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class.  I don't really want >> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >> be with jaws.  I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >> was very confusing.  Since there isn't much there as far as >> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read.  I'm going to >> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see >> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >> even want me in his class.  Also, I don't even have any accessible >> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern.  Thanks for >> reading this message. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:29:29 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college     science class for next semester Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go ahead and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or dean for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating against other students in the future. There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, distinguish the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We can help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and support from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the accommodations for you. Arielle On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? > You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or > something else you enjoy.  Perhaps you can discuss other options with > your Dean.  Are you interested in this geology class?  If you really > want to take it then go for it! > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > I absolutely agree with what has been stated.  This professor has no > right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and > choose his sighted students, right?)  If this is the class you need to > take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you > and set the record straight with this guy.  And, if push comes to shove > then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which > your DS office should be able to help you with as well. > > On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need > and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your > DS office, or somewhere else.  A few other places you might want to > check are APH and the library of congress.  I have never taken a geology > course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile > diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and > save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects > of your textbooks.  A lot of APH's books are also available for free > loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class.  NLS > might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for > free. > > On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable > accommodations. >> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color > is it or does it have any marbling. >> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to > >> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, > >> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile > >> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, > surely so can rock geology. >> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a > >> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your > NFB state president. >> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select > >> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > >> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three > >> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office > does this before you purchase the books. >> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >> -Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson > wrote: >> >>> -- >>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>> >>> Hello to all.  I'm glad to be a part of this list.  I am very close >>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree.  The only class I need to >>> take, is a geology science class with no lab.  I met with a counselor > >>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>> about rocks and things like that.  The Dean of The science department > >>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem.  The >>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class.  This is >>> extremely frustrating.  I had went to my disability support office, >>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different > rocks apart. >>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class.  Lynn >>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>> called geology of the solar system.  Lynn told me she thought I >>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class.  I don't really want > >>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>> be with jaws.  I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>> was very confusing.  Since there isn't much there as far as >>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read.  I'm going to > >>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see > >>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>> even want me in his class.  Also, I don't even have any accessible >>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern.  Thanks for >>> reading this message. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:59:11 -0700 From: Suzanne Germano To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college     science class for next semester Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I am sure it is for a science requirement to graduate so it can not be any class. I would take it up with disabled student services, then I would go to dean of the geology then I would go up the ladder until I got that instructor on probation or fired. The instructor would be fired if he said someone could not take the class because they were black yet they can get away with discriminating against blind. On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Wasif, Zunaira < Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote: > You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? > You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or > something else you enjoy.  Perhaps you can discuss other options with > your Dean.  Are you interested in this geology class?  If you really > want to take it then go for it! > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > I absolutely agree with what has been stated.  This professor has no > right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and > choose his sighted students, right?)  If this is the class you need to > take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you > and set the record straight with this guy.  And, if push comes to shove > then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which > your DS office should be able to help you with as well. > > On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need > and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your > DS office, or somewhere else.  A few other places you might want to > check are APH and the library of congress.  I have never taken a geology > course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile > diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and > save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects > of your textbooks.  A lot of APH's books are also available for free > loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class.  NLS > might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for > free. > > On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: > > It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you > > sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable > accommodations. > > A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant > > (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what > > each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to > > remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and > > identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color > is it or does it have any marbling. > > This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to > > > take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just > > finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first > > course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, > > > the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the > > things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile > > > drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I > > am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, > surely so can rock geology. > > If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't > > fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight > > harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a > > > local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your > NFB state president. > > Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is > > to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the > > prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go > > smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. > > Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books > > you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books > > would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select > > > Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > > > Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its > > ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three > > > months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have > > used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the > > books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of > > alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining > > your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you > > with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a > > copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each > > page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they > > go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes > > add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as > > soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a > > very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office > does this before you purchase the books. > > I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! > > -Jewel > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson > wrote: > > > >> -- > >> Joshua T Hendrickson > >> > >> Hello to all.  I'm glad to be a part of this list.  I am very close > >> to getting my Associates of Arts degree.  The only class I need to > >> take, is a geology science class with no lab.  I met with a counselor > > >> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all > >> about rocks and things like that.  The Dean of The science department > > >> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem.  The > >> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class.  This is > >> extremely frustrating.  I had went to my disability support office, > >> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet > >> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the > >> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. > >> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different > rocks apart. > >> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in > >> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class.  Lynn > >> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science > >> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class > >> called geology of the solar system.  Lynn told me she thought I > >> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was > >> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class.  I don't really want > > >> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will > >> be with jaws.  I was sent an email with a link to a page that was > >> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it > >> was very confusing.  Since there isn't much there as far as > >> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure > >> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read.  I'm going to > > >> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see > > >> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for > >> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't > >> even want me in his class.  Also, I don't even have any accessible > >> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern.  Thanks for > >> reading this message. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g > >> mail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > > 40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:07:48 -0400 From: Aleeha Dudley To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college     science class for next semester Message-ID: <19987B73-F692-410E-9E46-88546A7045F6 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii Hello,    This is asolutely not OK.I am a zoology major and thus have to take a  bunch of incredibly visual classes where I've had to fight a lot of battles with instructors.  Your university  legally cannot push you around like that and I have a multitude of suggestions for you. If you would like, you may write me off list and we can chat further from there. My email is blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Aleeha  Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 14:59, Suzanne Germano wrote: > I am sure it is for a science requirement to graduate so it can not be any > class. > > I would take it up with disabled student services, then I would go to dean > of the geology then I would go up the ladder until I got that instructor on > probation or fired. > > The instructor would be fired if he said someone could not take the class > because they were black yet they can get away with discriminating against > blind. > > > On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Wasif, Zunaira < > Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote: > >> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >> something else you enjoy.  Perhaps you can discuss other options with >> your Dean.  Are you interested in this geology class?  If you really >> want to take it then go for it! >> Zunaira >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> I absolutely agree with what has been stated.  This professor has no >> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and >> choose his sighted students, right?)  If this is the class you need to >> take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you >> and set the record straight with this guy.  And, if push comes to shove >> then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which >> your DS office should be able to help you with as well. >> >> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your >> DS office, or somewhere else.  A few other places you might want to >> check are APH and the library of congress.  I have never taken a geology >> course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile >> diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and >> save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects >> of your textbooks.  A lot of APH's books are also available for free >> loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class.  NLS >> might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for >> free. >> >> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >> accommodations. >>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color >> is it or does it have any marbling. >>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to >> >>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, >> >>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile >> >>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >> surely so can rock geology. >>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a >> >>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >> NFB state president. >>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select >> >>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >> >>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three >> >>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >> does this before you purchase the books. >>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>> -Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >> wrote: >>> >>>> -- >>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>> >>>> Hello to all.  I'm glad to be a part of this list.  I am very close >>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree.  The only class I need to >>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab.  I met with a counselor >> >>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>> about rocks and things like that.  The Dean of The science department >> >>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem.  The >>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class.  This is >>>> extremely frustrating.  I had went to my disability support office, >>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >> rocks apart. >>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class.  Lynn >>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>> called geology of the solar system.  Lynn told me she thought I >>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class.  I don't really want >> >>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>> be with jaws.  I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>> was very confusing.  Since there isn't much there as far as >>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read.  I'm going to >> >>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see >> >>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>> even want me in his class.  Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern.  Thanks for >>>> reading this message. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 14:24:53 -0500 From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Lawyers List ,     National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello everybody, I have been waitlisted at a law school.  I am just wondering how long do you think is typical to wait before making other concrete plans? Thank you all, Jordan Richardson -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 14:54:34 -0500 From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing     list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to     oneanother Message-ID: <519a7fab.e2923a0a.71da.1b26 at mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:55:40 -0400 From: Justin Young To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks all for your thoughts/feedback! On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > It's my backup screenreader.  For the most part even without the > plug-ins or add-ons it does a pretty good job, though personally I > prefer Jaws because I'm more familiar with it.  I don't really know if > one is necessarily better than the other but they're both decent > screenreaders. > > On 5/20/13, Josh Gregory wrote: >> Personally I use it a lot. It's free and it has most of the functionality >> of >> jaws if you can find good addons for it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 11:43 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" >> wrote: >> >>> I use the two in conjunction. When one doesn't work, the other always >>> comes in handy :-) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 4S using VoiceOver >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Justin Young wrote: >>> >>>> Hi All! >>>> >>>> I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA?  Is it better than >>>> JAWS?  I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages >>>> related to this topic.  Thanks as always for your feedback! >>>> >>>> Justin >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:44:48 -0400 From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to     oneanother Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sorry, I just noticed the typo.  I meant to say infrared.  Basically all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the infrared scanner on the printer.  On the printers I've used it with the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find.  Then the printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands from there. Hope this helps.  I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but that might be an option worth exploring too.  Either that or infrared will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > >  ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice.  I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle.  Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely.  I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers.  My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >  Sophie, >  I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training >  center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk >  to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on >  attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB >  so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >  Koby. > >  -----Original Message----- >  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie >  Trist >  Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >  To: nabs >  Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to > one >  another > >  dear List, > >  As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >  but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >  know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >  anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >  don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >  if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB >  training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and >  I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >  technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >  and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >  wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >  center. Any answer will be appreciated. > >  Best, >  Sophie Trist > >  _______________________________________________ >  nabs-l mailing list >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >  nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > >  _______________________________________________ >  nabs-l mailing list >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >  nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to     oneanother Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly how you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had been in Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I didn't need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really needed more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class first thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that class which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they agreed. I still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to practice slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test out completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my fiancee in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible enough to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test out of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the required projects quickly. I know some students who have come with excellent cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest of their training on the other classes. Best, Arielle On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo.  I meant to say infrared.  Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the > infrared scanner on the printer.  On the printers I've used it with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find.  Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands > from there. > Hope this helps.  I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but > that might be an option worth exploring too.  Either that or infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've >> never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you >> explain that to me please? >> >>  ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated >> to oneanother >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless >> printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice.  I >> used >> it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the >> printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle.  Hope >> that >> answers your question. >> >> Absolutely.  I know a number of people who have tested out of >> Braille >> courses at the centers.  My understanding from being on calls >> with Pam >> Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual >> trainee >> where they are in each of the class areas and build on those >> skills. >> So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of >> unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building >> up >> other skills. >> >> HTH! >> >> On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >>  Sophie, >>  I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB >> training >>  center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that >> you talk >>  to the director of which ever training center that you are >> planning on >>  attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I >> attended CCB >>  so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >>  Koby. >> >>  -----Original Message----- >>  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sophie >>  Trist >>  Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >>  To: nabs >>  Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to >> one >>  another >> >>  dear List, >> >>  As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >>  but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >>  know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >>  anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >>  don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >>  if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns >> NFB >>  training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and >>  I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >>  technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >>  and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >>  wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >>  center. Any answer will be appreciated. >> >>  Best, >>  Sophie Trist >> >>  _______________________________________________ >>  nabs-l mailing list >>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>  nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >>  nabs-l mailing list >>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>  nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:19:33 -0500 From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing     list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated     tooneanother Message-ID: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1 at mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB directly after graduating high school and train during the summer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Sorry, I just noticed the typo.  I meant to say infrared.  Basically all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the infrared scanner on the printer.  On the printers I've used it with the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find.  Then the printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands from there. Hope this helps.  I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but that might be an option worth exploring too.  Either that or infrared will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please?   ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote:   Sophie,   I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training   center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk   to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on   attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB   so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me?   Koby.   -----Original Message-----   From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie   Trist   Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM   To: nabs   Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one   another   dear List,   As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related,   but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I   know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check   anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I   don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient   if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB   training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and   I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M,   technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3   and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was   wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training   center. Any answer will be appreciated.   Best,   Sophie Trist   _______________________________________________   nabs-l mailing list   nabs-l at nfbnet.org   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for   nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com   _______________________________________________   nabs-l mailing list   nabs-l at nfbnet.org   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for   nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:24:37 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated     tooneanother Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The adult programs are open all year and you can start and end whenever you want. They also have summer programs for high school students and recent graduates. Many people go through the high school summer program right after graduation and then stay at the center for another 6-9 months to complete the adult program as well. However, you could also do an adult program just for the summer. You won't have an official graduation after only two months, but you will still learn a lot Arielle On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > >  ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >  Sorry, I just noticed the typo.  I meant to say infrared. > Basically >  all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in >  the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the >  BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, >  assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the >  infrared scanner on the printer.  On the printers I've used it > with >  the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well >  so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the >  printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the >  wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands >  from there. >  Hope this helps.  I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but >  that might be an option worth exploring too.  Either that or > infrared >  will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > >  On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >  Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've >  never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you >  explain that to me please? > >   ----- Original Message ----- >  From: Kaiti Shelton   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >    Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 >  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated >  to oneanother > >  Hi Sophie, > >  As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless >  printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice.  I >  used >  it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the >  printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle.  Hope >  that >  answers your question. > >  Absolutely.  I know a number of people who have tested out of >  Braille >  courses at the centers.  My understanding from being on calls >  with Pam >  Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual >  trainee >  where they are in each of the class areas and build on those >  skills. >  So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of >  unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building >  up >  other skills. > >  HTH! > >  On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >   Sophie, >   I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB >  training >   center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that >  you talk >   to the director of which ever training center that you are >  planning on >   attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I >  attended CCB >   so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >   Koby. > >   -----Original Message----- >   From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >  Sophie >   Trist >   Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >   To: nabs >   Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to >  one >   another > >   dear List, > >   As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >   but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >   know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >   anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >   don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >   if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns >  NFB >   training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and >   I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >   technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >   and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >   wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >   center. Any answer will be appreciated. > >   Best, >   Sophie Trist > >   _______________________________________________ >   nabs-l mailing list >   nabs-l at nfbnet.org >   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >  info for >   nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >  il.com > > >   _______________________________________________ >   nabs-l mailing list >   nabs-l at nfbnet.org >   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >  info for >   nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >  t104%40gmail.com > > > >  -- >  Kaiti > >  _______________________________________________ >  nabs-l mailing list >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >  for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >  r%40gmail.com > >  _______________________________________________ >  nabs-l mailing list >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >  nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > >  -- >  Kaiti > >  _______________________________________________ >  nabs-l mailing list >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >  nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:32:13 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hopefully some lawyers will help you with this, but I know that in psychology, all admissions decisions have to be made by April 15. So students who are wait-listed and don't hear from schools by that date have to assume they haven't been accepted. Perhaps psychology is ahead of other programs, though, especially since they provide graduate fellowships. Best of luck! Arielle On 5/20/13, Jordan Richardson wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I have been waitlisted at a law school.  I am just wondering how long do > you think is typical to wait before making other concrete plans? > > Thank you all, > Jordan Richardson > > -- > Jordan Richardson > President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." > ~*Frederick > Douglass* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 17:44:17 -0400 From: "Joe" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question Message-ID: <01eb01ce55a3$2deefbb0$89ccf310$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" A friend of mine was wait listed at Harvard Law and was picked up almost at the last minute that following August. Mind you, this may've been the extreme exception, but if it happened once.... Most graduate programs are interested in filling their slots. Good luck, and congratulations on getting a tentative nod.--Joe -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Richardson Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Lawyers List; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question Hello everybody, I have been waitlisted at a law school.  I am just wondering how long do you think is typical to wait before making other concrete plans? Thank you all, Jordan Richardson -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 17:58:49 -0400 From: "Joe" To: "'NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS'" Subject: [nabs-l] Before the Black: Dealing with Impending Blindness Message-ID: <01f401ce55a5$363fd1c0$a2bf7540$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" What's worse, to be born without any sight or to grow up seeing and realize soon you will not be able to? Blindness   is a complex animal, because there are varying stages of "legal blindness." There are a number of medical conditions that can result in loss of sight, but no matter the cause, I have embraced the idea that blindness in any form does not have to spell the end of a person's usefulness. But, of course: Beliefs aren't really convictions until they are sincerely tested. Memories of what I could once see bring a degree of comfort. I remember what it was like to be able to sit in the back of a classroom and make out the writing on a blackboard. I remember the distinct color of the balls against the green felt of a pool table, and as mundane as it may sound, there was something empowering about reading a license plate from down the street. This was second only to the ability to jump on my bike and take that street as fast as my feet could peddle. Ironically, it was a biking accident at the neighborhood park that finally got through to my adolescent mind that something was wrong with my eyes. Over time the situation became more complicated. Visits to the optometrist led to appointments with the ophthalmologist, and regular eye exams turned into regular surgical procedures. The once vivid blues, greens, and reds of the world around me slowly faded into something lackluster, lifeless. My senior year in high school, after many failed attempts to stay on top of the glaucoma, a procedure was performed that has more or less kept things in check for the past twelve years. The headaches went away. My field of vision stabilized. My sight was worse off than it had ever been, but at least I could rest easy that a routine eye exam would not result in my going in for yet another surgery. I've never really gotten the hang of explaining visual acuity. How do you explain to someone the ability to note that someone is sitting next to you but not the ability to distinguish facial expressions? I transitioned into my teens with teachers who assumed my eye reports meant I may as well be completely blind. I met and hung out with friends who made the same assumptions because of my efficient use of first the white cane and later a guide dog. I believe this may be true of my own family, and so how do you begin to explain the loss of something the people around you thought had disappeared a long time ago? Every little bit counts. In the sunlight it is still possible for me to make out some facial features. Others may not get it, but I appreciate the value of using the sun's reflection off the metal grate to find the escalators to the subway station near my office. Others may not understand, but I enjoy the ability to look for the rectangle of light in the otherwise dim station to find the entrance to the train. I use the contrast of the grass and sidewalk to keep myself in a straight line, and the contrast of colors against that sidewalk makes it possible for me to walk around people instead of into them. I still flip on lights to distinguish between my light gray suit and the charcoal. These are examples of what I can still see, and they are stark reminders of what I now find myself slowly losing. Have I relied too much on my sight? I don't know. I've used my sight to the extent I am capable, but since I have not been able to read print in years, I haven't exactly been straining my eyes. I've used what is available to me and put the rest on my ears, nose and hands to work out. It seems foolish to me not to utilize what you still possess to navigate unfamiliar environments--provided you never put too much dependence on any one of your five senses. So, what the heck's the point of this latest rant? Maybe it's a green light for someone in a similar situation to allow themselves to feel bummed about losing the ability to see. I don't have a lot of sight left, but yes, it makes me sad to think it is only a matter of time before this too goes away. Knowing and appreciating the simple concept of color is something for which I am blessed to have experienced firsthand. Maybe it's a reminder to myself that despite occasional reports of new surgeries and medical advances, I could never gamble away what I have held onto for so long. In my case the point is moot, because my remaining eye has undergone so much damage from past surgeries that emerging treatments would likely make my condition worse. Or, maybe, it's a reminder that despite the gloom, things really do turn out alright. It has not been lost on me that my life would have turned out dramatically different if I had never acquired a visual impairment. A gift? I'm probably too cynical to call blindness a gift, but if gifts are measured by the value of people and experiences, then yes, I reckon it's one of the best gifts I've ever received. As to how you deal with the unavoidable, I think you have to keep challenging yourself. List the things that make blindness scary, and break them up into tasks that erode the unknown. Just the other day I went and found a McDonald's I knew to be near my office. It would be easy to rely on the cafeteria in my building because it's convenient, because it's familiar, and maybe because it is safe. I successfully found the restaurant. Once inside I wandered around a bit but eventually found the counter without assistance. If I go again, perhaps I will learn the order of the drinks at the soda fountains. I should probably figure out where the trash goes in case I ever decide to eat there. These are exercises you force yourself to tackle as a matter of course, but they are especially important when you need to overcome change. What this post is not is a cry for pity. I can afford to feel sad because no one will experience the change as keenly as me. I think it's healthy to mourn the persistent loss of a physical ability. I would make a horrible therapist on account of my no nonsense approach to overcoming challenges, but even a no BS character like me can now recognize the value of taking a moment to reflect before jumping to the point of bucking up. Sighted people wonder why I would be impacted by something I have not fully enjoyed in years. Blind people would be tempted to point out I can do anything if I put my mind to it. I am content to know what I had, what I still possess and what I might use moving forward. I think about the victims in Boston who are dealing with the loss of a limb. Life will change in small and large ways. Truth be told, it really sucks, but after a healthy period of mourning, you have to reacquaint yourself with the reality that you control the circumstance, not the other way around. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:20:52 -0400 From: Greg Aikens To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to     oneanother Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This depends on what model of braille note you have.  The Apex can connect to a printer via bluetooth.  The MPower has the infrared option, but as far as I can tell they removed this from the Apex.  Neither can print over wifi. -Greg On May 20, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo.  I meant to say infrared.  Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the > infrared scanner on the printer.  On the printers I've used it with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find.  Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands > from there. > Hope this helps.  I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but > that might be an option worth exploring too.  Either that or infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've >> never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you >> explain that to me please? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated >> to oneanother >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless >> printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice.  I >> used >> it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the >> printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle.  Hope >> that >> answers your question. >> >> Absolutely.  I know a number of people who have tested out of >> Braille >> courses at the centers.  My understanding from being on calls >> with Pam >> Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual >> trainee >> where they are in each of the class areas and build on those >> skills. >> So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of >> unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building >> up >> other skills. >> >> HTH! >> >> On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> Sophie, >> I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB >> training >> center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that >> you talk >> to the director of which ever training center that you are >> planning on >> attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I >> attended CCB >> so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sophie >> Trist >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >> To: nabs >> Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to >> one >> another >> >> dear List, >> >> As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >> but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >> know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >> anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >> don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >> if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns >> NFB >> training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and >> I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >> technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >> and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >> wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >> center. Any answer will be appreciated. >> >> Best, >> Sophie Trist >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:37:25 -0400 From: Ashley Coleman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Justin, I use NVDA and think it is better than JAWS in many ways. Ashley On 5/20/13, Justin Young wrote: > Hi All! > > I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA?  Is it better than > JAWS?  I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages > related to this topic.  Thanks as always for your feedback! > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:42:20 -0400 From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA Message-ID: <1CB473E0-60F6-43A5-ACBB-054619F0751B at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii Definitely agree Ashley. Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 6:37 PM, Ashley Coleman wrote: > Hi Justin, > I use NVDA and think it is better than JAWS in many ways. > Ashley > > On 5/20/13, Justin Young wrote: >> Hi All! >> >> I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA?  Is it better than >> JAWS?  I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages >> related to this topic.  Thanks as always for your feedback! >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:19:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ashley Griggs To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? Message-ID:     <1369091986.7252.YahooMailClassic at web181001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is,?what girl out there?needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a?singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! Thanks, Ashley. ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:22:06 -0400 From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated     tooneanother Message-ID: <2562BFE3AB3648F9A31B52ACAA5D8257 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=response Infrared is a type of wireless connection. The braille note m power can print to a infared printer. -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:52:20 -0500 From: "Gloria G" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls Message-ID: <72CB6E3AC4AF44B9AFC71EA99306FFAA at Gloria> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all, I just got a new computer and am wanting to enstall a good fire wall that is also JAWs friendly. At one point I had AVG, but have heard that there are some free ones out there. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance! Gloria ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:04:24 -0500 From: Jedi Moerke To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Message-ID: <4F4ACD48-E2E4-4520-AEE0-A2836E5549FF at samobile.net> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii I agree. That was definitely not necessary. Peter produces excellent recordings. I think you'll do the organization well in your step when you're not available. And for the record, I don't find him difficult. Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 8:39 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > FYI, he's on this list... just saying. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 9:36 AM, David Dunphy wrote: > >> If you want to deal with a difficult person, I'd recommend him. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi Moerke" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:45 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> >>> If no one writes, I'd recommend Peter Donahue who does many of the convention recordings. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 19, 2013, at 3:10 PM, Darian Smith wrote: >>> >>>> If anyone is interested in being a backup recorder, please contact me off-list and we'll figure it out. >>>> Thanks so much, >>>> Darian >>>> On May 19, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Darian, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for explaining this process with the NABS membership. It sounds as though you have a good process in place as it concerns the recording of the conference calls. I hope that all individuals involved can respect this process. >>>>> >>>>> I happen to be someone who is a bit wary of being recorded and having this recording be distributed to everyone online. Because of this, I thought it would be nice to receive permission from the guest speaker before the recording was distributed  to everyone online. Perhaps the guest speaker would have no problem with this, but I think she should have the right to know that the conference call was being recorded when there was no announcement about it being recorded prior to the call. I think doing such a thing is simply a means of showing respect to the guest speaker. If we are not willing to show respect to our guest speakers then it may be difficult to find guest speakers for our conference calls in the future. >>>>> >>>>> But thank you Darian for serving on the membership committee and working hard to make these conference calls a reality. I know that the membership committee works hard behind the scenes to make these conference calls happen, and I deeply appreciate all the hard work that you and the membership committee do to make these conference calls a reality. >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Darian Smith" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:19 AM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I apologize  for getting  to this thread as last as I have, but today has been a long one, with A chapter meeting  and a few other things. >>>>>> Let me first say that it is not the intention of NABS or  the Membership committee to withhold information that can be useful  to those we serve. >>>>>> For my part, I was not made aware that the call was going to be streamed or recorded, nor do I remember  the participants of  the call being given any heads-up   that the call would be recorded. >>>>>> if the participants communicate  that they are alright with    the recording  being distributed, then I think it's fine. I'll check with both the speakers of this call to make sure they are fie with it too. >>>>>> I feel the need to correct  some misunderstandings as it relates to some of the NABS thought process regarding recordings. >>>>>> We feel that   every program  that  we do should be aimed  towards benefitting every student, and that anyone who wants to be a part of creating, running and supporting our programs should be welcomed to do so, because these programs  are programs that belong to everyone. >>>>>> We see the NABS membership calls as a successful  part of those programs and appreciate the  hard work our committee members and guests put into it. >>>>>> an essential part of the success of these Calls is David Dunphy, as he generously gives  of his time and resources to make sure that those who cannot join us on these informative  confrence calls gets the chance to listen live via his stream, and after the event via recorded audio. >>>>>> In order to insure that each person takes advantage of these options, we ask that We simply be provided with confirmation that his services will be available  as well as     the links to the appropriate resources. >>>>>> We also ask that should something arise where  Our audio access expert might not be available to record the call, that notice be given to the committee before letting  the entirety of the NABS membership know that he will be absent. >>>>>> >>>>>> We ask for information prior to it going public, so that we are insuring that we are ahead  of any potential concerns, not behind them. >>>>>> We also ask, so we can be sure to communicate any changes  with our membership immediately. >>>>>> Because these  announcements don't just go to the NABS-L list, they go to many other lists,  we want to make sure that the information reaches those interested individuals too. >>>>>> I understand and am well aware that  the consistency of notification of, and execution of call recordings has not been near as  up to par as anyone would like, and as chair  of the  membership committee, I apologize to each of you. >>>>>> My expectation  of how we operate  includes communication and accountability, standards   I will   strive  to model, if I have not done this toan acceptable level. >>>>>> If anyone (David included) has any concerns, questions or suggestions, please do bring them to me off-list so that we can get  the heart of the matter in the most civil and productive way possible. >>>>>> I thank you all for your thoughts, opinions and concerns. If we keep asking, questioning and collaborating, we will continue  to build a brighter future for  ourselves, and generations  of students that will come after us. >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Darian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 18, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Arielle, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>   Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a feat.One could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted during such calls.  Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, simply because some people failed to see plans to post the call. >>>>>>> for today,  Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >>>>>>>> live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >>>>>>>> So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or >>>>>>>> permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >>>>>>>> multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >>>>>>>> always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the >>>>>>>> call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >>>>>>>> withheld from the membership for this reason. >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>> David, >>>>>>>>> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and  > also >>>>>>>>> record the nabs calls. >>>>>>>>> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >>>>>>>>> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via  > the >>>>>>>>> computer and phone lines. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: David Dunphy >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him  > and the >>>>>>>>> membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've > recorded it >>>>>>>>> or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the >>>>>>>>> call. >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello David, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording >> of >>>>>>>>>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right  >> for you >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>>>>>>>>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right >> to >>>>>>>>>> distribute it to other people. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> From: "David Dunphy" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>>>>>>>>>> people want it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  >>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:12:25 -0400 From: "justin" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college     science class for next semester Message-ID: <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" I have taken two geography courses before.  An intro class, and the one right afterwards.  -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go ahead and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or dean for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating against other students in the future. There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, distinguish the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We can help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and support from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the accommodations for you. Arielle On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? > You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or > something else you enjoy.  Perhaps you can discuss other options with > your Dean.  Are you interested in this geology class?  If you really > want to take it then go for it! > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > I absolutely agree with what has been stated.  This professor has no > right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick > and choose his sighted students, right?)  If this is the class you > need to take then your disability services people need to help > advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy.  And, if > push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about > that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as well. > > On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need > and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, > your DS office, or somewhere else.  A few other places you might want > to check are APH and the library of congress.  I have never taken a > geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of > tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you > need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on > otther aspects of your textbooks.  A lot of APH's books are also > available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done > with the class.  NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which > you can also borrow for free. > > On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable > accommodations. >> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >> color > is it or does it have any marbling. >> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >> to > >> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >> However, > >> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >> tactile > >> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, > surely so can rock geology. >> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >> a > >> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your > NFB state president. >> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >> select > >> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > >> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >> three > >> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office > does this before you purchase the books. >> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >> -Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson > wrote: >> >>> -- >>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>> >>> Hello to all.  I'm glad to be a part of this list.  I am very close >>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree.  The only class I need to >>> take, is a geology science class with no lab.  I met with a >>> counselor > >>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>> about rocks and things like that.  The Dean of The science >>> department > >>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem.  The >>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class.  This is >>> extremely frustrating.  I had went to my disability support office, >>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different > rocks apart. >>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class.  Lynn >>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>> called geology of the solar system.  Lynn told me she thought I >>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class.  I don't really >>> want > >>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>> be with jaws.  I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>> was very confusing.  Since there isn't much there as far as >>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read.  I'm going >>> to > >>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>> see > >>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>> even want me in his class.  Also, I don't even have any accessible >>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern.  Thanks for >>> reading this message. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> % >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:18:26 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college     science class for next semester Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the national center and just find out what's happening with that case and what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class without your consent. Arielle On 5/19/13, justin wrote: > I have taken two geography courses before.  An intro class, and the one > right afterwards. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. > Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go > ahead > and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or > dean > for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's > up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth > thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating against > other students in the future. > There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, distinguish > the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We can > help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the > professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many > blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and > support > from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the > accommodations for you. > > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >> something else you enjoy.  Perhaps you can discuss other options with >> your Dean.  Are you interested in this geology class?  If you really >> want to take it then go for it! >> Zunaira >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> I absolutely agree with what has been stated.  This professor has no >> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >> and choose his sighted students, right?)  If this is the class you >> need to take then your disability services people need to help >> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy.  And, if >> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as > well. >> >> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >> your DS office, or somewhere else.  A few other places you might want >> to check are APH and the library of congress.  I have never taken a >> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >> otther aspects of your textbooks.  A lot of APH's books are also >> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >> with the class.  NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >> you can also borrow for free. >> >> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >> accommodations. >>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>> color >> is it or does it have any marbling. >>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>> to >> >>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>> However, >> >>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>> tactile >> >>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >> surely so can rock geology. >>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>> a >> >>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >> NFB state president. >>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>> select >> >>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >> >>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>> three >> >>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >> does this before you purchase the books. >>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>> -Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >> wrote: >>> >>>> -- >>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>> >>>> Hello to all.  I'm glad to be a part of this list.  I am very close >>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree.  The only class I need to >>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab.  I met with a >>>> counselor >> >>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>> about rocks and things like that.  The Dean of The science >>>> department >> >>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem.  The >>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class.  This is >>>> extremely frustrating.  I had went to my disability support office, >>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >> rocks apart. >>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class.  Lynn >>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>> called geology of the solar system.  Lynn told me she thought I >>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class.  I don't really >>>> want >> >>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>> be with jaws.  I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>> was very confusing.  Since there isn't much there as far as >>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read.  I'm going >>>> to >> >>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>> see >> >>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>> even want me in his class.  Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern.  Thanks for >>>> reading this message. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>> g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 00:20:44 +0000 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? Message-ID:         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Ashley! Welcome to the list! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! Thanks, Ashley. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 20:54:33 -0400 From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? Message-ID: <3A3FECD3-5AB3-4636-8D37-A541F5E20CC3 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Oh for goodness sake, it's not spam. This young lady and I am sure many others like her  are people that generally want a roommate for these conventions. We went through the same issue last year with another person and I just think it's really sad how people think it's  spam  when these are people that are generally asking for help. I'm sorry but that is how I feel and if you have a problem with me take it up with me privately, I'm not discussing anymore here. On May 20, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Ashley! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? > > Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! > Thanks, Ashley. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 00:57:34 +0000 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? Message-ID:         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I agree! It appeared in my "junk" folder, so I had to bring it out! I hate it that some list E-Mails appear there! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 7:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? Oh for goodness sake, it's not spam. This young lady and I am sure many others like her  are people that generally want a roommate for these conventions. We went through the same issue last year with another person and I just think it's really sad how people think it's  spam  when these are people that are generally asking for help. I'm sorry but that is how I feel and if you have a problem with me take it up with me privately, I'm not discussing anymore here. On May 20, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Ashley! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? > > Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! > Thanks, Ashley. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 20:09:46 -0500 From: Chelsea Page To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii Hi Ashley, welcome to the list!    I hope you enjoy convention.   Feel free to email me at chelseap08 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Ashley! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? > > Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! > Thanks, Ashley. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:14:25 -0400 From: Anjelina To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fire Walls Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii I'm not at my computer right now to check, but I remember using free AVG in the past. I think the website is: www.freeavg.com Sent from Anjelina's iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 7:52 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi all, > I just got a new computer and am wanting to enstall a good fire wall that is also JAWs friendly. At one point I had AVG, but have heard that there are some free ones out there. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance! > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:17:21 -0400 From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college     science class for next semester Message-ID: <3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original Arielle, that is  terrible. Which sort of class was this? If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good case. Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an elective. As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and did not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes orally; that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not be able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific pages and passages to discuss points. My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and I called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and see if we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when my dss counselor called me to say Prof C   came to her and she wanted to discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt that at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an appropriate class for me. Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that two professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was a major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor said that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take it with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x because it did not fit my schedule. For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, and I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me following her class with videos. Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up front with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even though I did not request it. It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She never said not to take it though. She  was very curteous in her responses to me. Now, that lit professor was not! Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is resolved. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the national center and just find out what's happening with that case and what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class without your consent. Arielle On 5/19/13, justin wrote: > I have taken two geography courses before.  An intro class, and the one > right afterwards. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. > Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go > ahead > and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or > dean > for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's > up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth > thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating > against > other students in the future. > There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, > distinguish > the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We > can > help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the > professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many > blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and > support > from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the > accommodations for you. > > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >> something else you enjoy.  Perhaps you can discuss other options with >> your Dean.  Are you interested in this geology class?  If you really >> want to take it then go for it! >> Zunaira >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> I absolutely agree with what has been stated.  This professor has no >> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >> and choose his sighted students, right?)  If this is the class you >> need to take then your disability services people need to help >> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy.  And, if >> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as > well. >> >> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >> your DS office, or somewhere else.  A few other places you might want >> to check are APH and the library of congress.  I have never taken a >> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >> otther aspects of your textbooks.  A lot of APH's books are also >> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >> with the class.  NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >> you can also borrow for free. >> >> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >> accommodations. >>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>> color >> is it or does it have any marbling. >>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>> to >> >>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>> However, >> >>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>> tactile >> >>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >> surely so can rock geology. >>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>> a >> >>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >> NFB state president. >>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>> select >> >>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >> >>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>> three >> >>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >> does this before you purchase the books. >>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>> -Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >> wrote: >>> >>>> -- >>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>> >>>> Hello to all.  I'm glad to be a part of this list.  I am very close >>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree.  The only class I need to >>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab.  I met with a >>>> counselor >> >>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>> about rocks and things like that.  The Dean of The science >>>> department >> >>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem.  The >>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class.  This is >>>> extremely frustrating.  I had went to my disability support office, >>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >> rocks apart. >>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class.  Lynn >>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>> called geology of the solar system.  Lynn told me she thought I >>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class.  I don't really >>>> want >> >>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>> be with jaws.  I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>> was very confusing.  Since there isn't much there as far as >>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read.  I'm going >>>> to >> >>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>> see >> >>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>> even want me in his class.  Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern.  Thanks for >>>> reading this message. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>> g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:28:09 -0400 From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college     science class for next semester Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If at all possible, a two-fold approach might be the best.  By that I mean instead of just going up the first two rungs of the chain of command one at a time try to get your disability services and the dean to advocate for you at the same time since this guy seems so stubborn. Tell the ds office people that you know this is not okay and since you have perfectly valid reasons for wanting to take this geology course over the online one that there is nothing that would really keep you from being successful in the course provided that the professor gets his act together.  Meanwhile, I'd schedule an appointment of the dean of the science department, or however your school is organized, to talk about this.  If possible bring proof of the descrimination with you.  If the disability service can vouch for you that he hasn't been willing to talk or work with them to help you then you'd have a pretty solid case.  Most deans are pretty ethical people and get pretty upset when they find out one of their faculty members isn't doing what they should, especially if it's something as basic and common-sensical like this.  Most schools have faculty policies that govern how faculty should work with studens with disabilities too, so if your professor needs to be reminded, for lack of a better term, of these policies then the dean would be the one to help you by communicating those to the professor.  Then once the dean says his piece the people in the ds office can start to do their job, and the dean can step in later on as needed.  I like Arielle's suggestion of getting the scoop on the Arizona student's case from national office too.  Perhaps at least some of the same arguments will apply to you and your situation if you need to use them. Hopefully once your prof gets a talking to from your dean he'll change his tune and that will be all that is needed.  I had this happen with a philosophy professor my first semester and the change after another student and I met with the dean was incredible.  If the dean sees that this guy is blatantly being descriminant against you and knows you have the resources to go to the next level if need be he'll probably step in and be instrumental in fihelping you.  Most schools will do anything to avoid a lawsuit which they wouldn't be able to win, so it might just take the dean coming down on the prof to set the record straight.  I hope that's all it takes for you and you get this resolved with as little hassle as possible.  Keep us posted if you have any other problems with it. On 5/20/13, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hello, >    This is asolutely not OK.I am a zoology major and thus have to take a > bunch of incredibly visual classes where I've had to fight a lot of battles > with instructors.  Your university  legally cannot push you around like that > and I have a multitude of suggestions for you. If you would like, you may > write me off list and we can chat further from there. My email is > blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com > Aleeha > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 14:59, Suzanne Germano wrote: > >> I am sure it is for a science requirement to graduate so it can not be >> any >> class. >> >> I would take it up with disabled student services, then I would go to >> dean >> of the geology then I would go up the ladder until I got that instructor >> on >> probation or fired. >> >> The instructor would be fired if he said someone could not take the class >> because they were black yet they can get away with discriminating against >> blind. >> >> >> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Wasif, Zunaira < >> Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote: >> >>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>> something else you enjoy.  Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>> your Dean.  Are you interested in this geology class?  If you really >>> want to take it then go for it! >>> Zunaira >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated.  This professor has no >>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and >>> choose his sighted students, right?)  If this is the class you need to >>> take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you >>> and set the record straight with this guy.  And, if push comes to shove >>> then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which >>> your DS office should be able to help you with as well. >>> >>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your >>> DS office, or somewhere else.  A few other places you might want to >>> check are APH and the library of congress.  I have never taken a geology >>> course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile >>> diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and >>> save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects >>> of your textbooks.  A lot of APH's books are also available for free >>> loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class.  NLS >>> might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for >>> free. >>> >>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>> accommodations. >>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color >>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to >>> >>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, >>> >>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile >>> >>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>> surely so can rock geology. >>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a >>> >>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>> NFB state president. >>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select >>> >>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >>> >>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three >>> >>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>> -Jewel >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>> >>>>> Hello to all.  I'm glad to be a part of this list.  I am very close >>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree.  The only class I need to >>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab.  I met with a counselor >>> >>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>> about rocks and things like that.  The Dean of The science department >>> >>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem.  The >>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class.  This is >>>>> extremely frustrating.  I had went to my disability support office, >>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>> rocks apart. >>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class.  Lynn >>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>> called geology of the solar system.  Lynn told me she thought I >>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class.  I don't really want >>> >>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>> be with jaws.  I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>> was very confusing.  Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read.  I'm going to >>> >>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see >>> >>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>> even want me in his class.  Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern.  Thanks for >>>>> reading this message. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org ------------------------------ End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 79, Issue 26 ************************************** From joshkart12 at gmail.com Tue May 21 02:46:18 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 22:46:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I Am Looking For A Roomate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <229CFE83-16BD-4A0E-A2F3-CFAB17200E91@gmail.com> Welcome to the list, received. Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 9:38 PM, "James P. Dickman" wrote: > Hello everyone, my name is James Dickman and I am looking for a roommate for the national convention is there anyone out there that is also looking for a roommate? Also I just joined the nabs mailing list, if someone can please reply to me, so I know that my message has been sent I would really appreciate it. > > Thank you > James Dickman > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue May 21 02:55:01 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 02:55:01 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] RELast I checked I wasn't spam. In-Reply-To: <1369104368.37160.YahooMailClassic@web181005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: , <1369104368.37160.YahooMailClassic@web181005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Ashley Griggs! I have to put the last name in, because we have 5 Ashleys on here! Your message made it! Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:46 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] RELast I checked I wasn't spam. Hi, I think someone on the list already cleared this up. Thank you for that. Just for the record, I am definitely not spam. I'm an actual person who really is going to convention and asking about roommates. Sometimes what the internet has done to us as humans makes me sad. Let's try this again. Hi, I'm Ashley! Glad to be part of the list and looking forward to meeting as many of you as I can at convention. --- On Tue, 5/21/13, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: From: nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 79, Issue 26 To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date: Tuesday, May 21, 2013, 1:28 AM Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to nabs-l at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester (Wasif, Zunaira) 2. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester (Arielle Silverman) 3. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester (Suzanne Germano) 4. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester (Aleeha Dudley) 5. Waitlist Question (Jordan Richardson) 6. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother (Sophie Trist) 7. Re: NVDA (Justin Young) 8. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother (Kaiti Shelton) 9. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother (Arielle Silverman) 10. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother (Sophie Trist) 11. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother (Arielle Silverman) 12. Re: Waitlist Question (Arielle Silverman) 13. Re: Waitlist Question (Joe) 14. Before the Black: Dealing with Impending Blindness (Joe) 15. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother (Greg Aikens) 16. Re: NVDA (Ashley Coleman) 17. Re: NVDA (Josh Gregory) 18. National Convention Room ates? (Ashley Griggs) 19. Re: two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother (Ashley Bramlett) 20. Fire Walls (Gloria G) 21. Re: The Epic Philosophy call. (Jedi Moerke) 22. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester (justin) 23. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester (Arielle Silverman) 24. Re: [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? (Joshua Lester) 25. Re: [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? (Josh Gregory) 26. Re: [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? (Joshua Lester) 27. Re: [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? (Chelsea Page) 28. Re: Fire Walls (Anjelina) 29. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester (Ashley Bramlett) 30. Re: requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester (Kaiti Shelton) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 13:07:55 -0400 From: "Wasif, Zunaira" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C at DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really want to take it then go for it! Zunaira -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as well. On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for free. On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: > It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you > sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable accommodations. > A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant > (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what > each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to > remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and > identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color is it or does it have any marbling. > This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to > take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just > finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first > course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, > the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the > things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile > drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I > am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, surely so can rock geology. > If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't > fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight > harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a > local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your NFB state president. > Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is > to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the > prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go > smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. > Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books > you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books > would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select > Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its > ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three > months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have > used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the > books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of > alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining > your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you > with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a > copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each > page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they > go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes > add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as > soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a > very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office does this before you purchase the books. > I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! > -Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson wrote: > >> -- >> Joshua T Hendrickson >> >> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor >> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department >> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different rocks apart. >> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want >> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to >> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see >> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >> reading this message. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:29:29 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go ahead and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or dean for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating against other students in the future. There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, distinguish the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We can help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and support from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the accommodations for you. Arielle On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? > You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or > something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with > your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really > want to take it then go for it! > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no > right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and > choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to > take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you > and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove > then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which > your DS office should be able to help you with as well. > > On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need > and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your > DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to > check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology > course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile > diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and > save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects > of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free > loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS > might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for > free. > > On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable > accommodations. >> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color > is it or does it have any marbling. >> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to > >> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, > >> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile > >> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, > surely so can rock geology. >> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a > >> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your > NFB state president. >> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select > >> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > >> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three > >> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office > does this before you purchase the books. >> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >> -Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson > wrote: >> >>> -- >>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>> >>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor > >>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department > >>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different > rocks apart. >>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want > >>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to > >>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see > >>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>> reading this message. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:59:11 -0700 From: Suzanne Germano To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I am sure it is for a science requirement to graduate so it can not be any class. I would take it up with disabled student services, then I would go to dean of the geology then I would go up the ladder until I got that instructor on probation or fired. The instructor would be fired if he said someone could not take the class because they were black yet they can get away with discriminating against blind. On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Wasif, Zunaira < Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote: > You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? > You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or > something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with > your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really > want to take it then go for it! > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no > right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and > choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to > take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you > and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove > then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which > your DS office should be able to help you with as well. > > On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need > and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your > DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to > check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology > course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile > diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and > save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects > of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free > loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS > might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for > free. > > On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: > > It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you > > sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable > accommodations. > > A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant > > (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what > > each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to > > remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and > > identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color > is it or does it have any marbling. > > This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to > > > take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just > > finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first > > course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, > > > the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the > > things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile > > > drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I > > am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, > surely so can rock geology. > > If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't > > fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight > > harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a > > > local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your > NFB state president. > > Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is > > to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the > > prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go > > smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. > > Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books > > you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books > > would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select > > > Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > > > Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its > > ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three > > > months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have > > used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the > > books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of > > alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining > > your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you > > with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a > > copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each > > page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they > > go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes > > add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as > > soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a > > very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office > does this before you purchase the books. > > I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! > > -Jewel > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson > wrote: > > > >> -- > >> Joshua T Hendrickson > >> > >> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close > >> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to > >> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor > > >> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all > >> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department > > >> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The > >> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is > >> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, > >> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet > >> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the > >> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. > >> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different > rocks apart. > >> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in > >> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn > >> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science > >> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class > >> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I > >> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was > >> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want > > >> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will > >> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was > >> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it > >> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as > >> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure > >> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to > > >> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see > > >> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for > >> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't > >> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible > >> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for > >> reading this message. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g > >> mail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > > 40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:07:48 -0400 From: Aleeha Dudley To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Message-ID: <19987B73-F692-410E-9E46-88546A7045F6 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, This is asolutely not OK.I am a zoology major and thus have to take a bunch of incredibly visual classes where I've had to fight a lot of battles with instructors. Your university legally cannot push you around like that and I have a multitude of suggestions for you. If you would like, you may write me off list and we can chat further from there. My email is blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Aleeha Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 14:59, Suzanne Germano wrote: > I am sure it is for a science requirement to graduate so it can not be any > class. > > I would take it up with disabled student services, then I would go to dean > of the geology then I would go up the ladder until I got that instructor on > probation or fired. > > The instructor would be fired if he said someone could not take the class > because they were black yet they can get away with discriminating against > blind. > > > On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Wasif, Zunaira < > Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote: > >> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >> want to take it then go for it! >> Zunaira >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and >> choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to >> take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you >> and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove >> then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which >> your DS office should be able to help you with as well. >> >> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your >> DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to >> check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology >> course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile >> diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and >> save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects >> of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free >> loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS >> might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for >> free. >> >> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >> accommodations. >>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color >> is it or does it have any marbling. >>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to >> >>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, >> >>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile >> >>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >> surely so can rock geology. >>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a >> >>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >> NFB state president. >>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select >> >>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >> >>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three >> >>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >> does this before you purchase the books. >>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>> -Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >> wrote: >>> >>>> -- >>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>> >>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor >> >>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department >> >>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >> rocks apart. >>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want >> >>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to >> >>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see >> >>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>> reading this message. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 14:24:53 -0500 From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Lawyers List , National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello everybody, I have been waitlisted at a law school. I am just wondering how long do you think is typical to wait before making other concrete plans? Thank you all, Jordan Richardson -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 14:54:34 -0500 From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother Message-ID: <519a7fab.e2923a0a.71da.1b26 at mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:55:40 -0400 From: Justin Young To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks all for your thoughts/feedback! On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > It's my backup screenreader. For the most part even without the > plug-ins or add-ons it does a pretty good job, though personally I > prefer Jaws because I'm more familiar with it. I don't really know if > one is necessarily better than the other but they're both decent > screenreaders. > > On 5/20/13, Josh Gregory wrote: >> Personally I use it a lot. It's free and it has most of the functionality >> of >> jaws if you can find good addons for it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 11:43 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" >> wrote: >> >>> I use the two in conjunction. When one doesn't work, the other always >>> comes in handy :-) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 4S using VoiceOver >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Justin Young wrote: >>> >>>> Hi All! >>>> >>>> I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA? Is it better than >>>> JAWS? I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages >>>> related to this topic. Thanks as always for your feedback! >>>> >>>> Justin >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:44:48 -0400 From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. Basically all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it with the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. Then the printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands from there. Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or infrared will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > >  ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >  Sophie, >  I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training >  center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk >  to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on >  attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB >  so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >  Koby. > >  -----Original Message----- >  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie >  Trist >  Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >  To: nabs >  Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to > one >  another > >  dear List, > >  As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >  but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >  know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >  anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >  don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >  if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB >  training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and >  I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >  technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >  and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >  wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >  center. Any answer will be appreciated. > >  Best, >  Sophie Trist > >  _______________________________________________ >  nabs-l mailing list >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >  nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > >  _______________________________________________ >  nabs-l mailing list >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >  nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly how you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had been in Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I didn't need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really needed more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class first thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that class which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they agreed. I still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to practice slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test out completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my fiancee in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible enough to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test out of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the required projects quickly. I know some students who have come with excellent cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest of their training on the other classes. Best, Arielle On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've >> never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you >> explain that to me please? >> >>  ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated >> to oneanother >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless >> printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I >> used >> it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the >> printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope >> that >> answers your question. >> >> Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of >> Braille >> courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls >> with Pam >> Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual >> trainee >> where they are in each of the class areas and build on those >> skills. >> So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of >> unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building >> up >> other skills. >> >> HTH! >> >> On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >>  Sophie, >>  I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB >> training >>  center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that >> you talk >>  to the director of which ever training center that you are >> planning on >>  attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I >> attended CCB >>  so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >>  Koby. >> >>  -----Original Message----- >>  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sophie >>  Trist >>  Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >>  To: nabs >>  Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to >> one >>  another >> >>  dear List, >> >>  As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >>  but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >>  know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >>  anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >>  don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >>  if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns >> NFB >>  training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and >>  I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >>  technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >>  and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >>  wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >>  center. Any answer will be appreciated. >> >>  Best, >>  Sophie Trist >> >>  _______________________________________________ >>  nabs-l mailing list >>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>  nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >>  nabs-l mailing list >>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>  nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:19:33 -0500 From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother Message-ID: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1 at mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB directly after graduating high school and train during the summer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. Basically all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it with the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. Then the printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands from there. Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or infrared will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:24:37 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The adult programs are open all year and you can start and end whenever you want. They also have summer programs for high school students and recent graduates. Many people go through the high school summer program right after graduation and then stay at the center for another 6-9 months to complete the adult program as well. However, you could also do an adult program just for the summer. You won't have an official graduation after only two months, but you will still learn a lot Arielle On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > >  ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >  Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. > Basically >  all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in >  the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the >  BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, >  assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the >  infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it > with >  the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well >  so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the >  printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the >  wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands >  from there. >  Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but >  that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or > infrared >  will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > >  On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >  Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've >  never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you >  explain that to me please? > >   ----- Original Message ----- >  From: Kaiti Shelton   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >    Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 >  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated >  to oneanother > >  Hi Sophie, > >  As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless >  printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I >  used >  it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the >  printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope >  that >  answers your question. > >  Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of >  Braille >  courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls >  with Pam >  Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual >  trainee >  where they are in each of the class areas and build on those >  skills. >  So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of >  unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building >  up >  other skills. > >  HTH! > >  On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >   Sophie, >   I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB >  training >   center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that >  you talk >   to the director of which ever training center that you are >  planning on >   attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I >  attended CCB >   so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >   Koby. > >   -----Original Message----- >   From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >  Sophie >   Trist >   Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >   To: nabs >   Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to >  one >   another > >   dear List, > >   As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >   but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >   know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >   anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >   don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >   if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns >  NFB >   training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and >   I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >   technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >   and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >   wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >   center. Any answer will be appreciated. > >   Best, >   Sophie Trist > >   _______________________________________________ >   nabs-l mailing list >   nabs-l at nfbnet.org >   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >  info for >   nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >  il.com > > >   _______________________________________________ >   nabs-l mailing list >   nabs-l at nfbnet.org >   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >  info for >   nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >  t104%40gmail.com > > > >  -- >  Kaiti > >  _______________________________________________ >  nabs-l mailing list >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >  for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >  r%40gmail.com > >  _______________________________________________ >  nabs-l mailing list >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >  nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > >  -- >  Kaiti > >  _______________________________________________ >  nabs-l mailing list >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org >  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >  nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:32:13 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hopefully some lawyers will help you with this, but I know that in psychology, all admissions decisions have to be made by April 15. So students who are wait-listed and don't hear from schools by that date have to assume they haven't been accepted. Perhaps psychology is ahead of other programs, though, especially since they provide graduate fellowships. Best of luck! Arielle On 5/20/13, Jordan Richardson wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I have been waitlisted at a law school. I am just wondering how long do > you think is typical to wait before making other concrete plans? > > Thank you all, > Jordan Richardson > > -- > Jordan Richardson > President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." > ~*Frederick > Douglass* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 17:44:17 -0400 From: "Joe" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question Message-ID: <01eb01ce55a3$2deefbb0$89ccf310$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A friend of mine was wait listed at Harvard Law and was picked up almost at the last minute that following August. Mind you, this may've been the extreme exception, but if it happened once.... Most graduate programs are interested in filling their slots. Good luck, and congratulations on getting a tentative nod.--Joe -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Richardson Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Lawyers List; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Waitlist Question Hello everybody, I have been waitlisted at a law school. I am just wondering how long do you think is typical to wait before making other concrete plans? Thank you all, Jordan Richardson -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 17:58:49 -0400 From: "Joe" To: "'NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS'" Subject: [nabs-l] Before the Black: Dealing with Impending Blindness Message-ID: <01f401ce55a5$363fd1c0$a2bf7540$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What's worse, to be born without any sight or to grow up seeing and realize soon you will not be able to? Blindness   is a complex animal, because there are varying stages of "legal blindness." There are a number of medical conditions that can result in loss of sight, but no matter the cause, I have embraced the idea that blindness in any form does not have to spell the end of a person's usefulness. But, of course: Beliefs aren't really convictions until they are sincerely tested. Memories of what I could once see bring a degree of comfort. I remember what it was like to be able to sit in the back of a classroom and make out the writing on a blackboard. I remember the distinct color of the balls against the green felt of a pool table, and as mundane as it may sound, there was something empowering about reading a license plate from down the street. This was second only to the ability to jump on my bike and take that street as fast as my feet could peddle. Ironically, it was a biking accident at the neighborhood park that finally got through to my adolescent mind that something was wrong with my eyes. Over time the situation became more complicated. Visits to the optometrist led to appointments with the ophthalmologist, and regular eye exams turned into regular surgical procedures. The once vivid blues, greens, and reds of the world around me slowly faded into something lackluster, lifeless. My senior year in high school, after many failed attempts to stay on top of the glaucoma, a procedure was performed that has more or less kept things in check for the past twelve years. The headaches went away. My field of vision stabilized. My sight was worse off than it had ever been, but at least I could rest easy that a routine eye exam would not result in my going in for yet another surgery. I've never really gotten the hang of explaining visual acuity. How do you explain to someone the ability to note that someone is sitting next to you but not the ability to distinguish facial expressions? I transitioned into my teens with teachers who assumed my eye reports meant I may as well be completely blind. I met and hung out with friends who made the same assumptions because of my efficient use of first the white cane and later a guide dog. I believe this may be true of my own family, and so how do you begin to explain the loss of something the people around you thought had disappeared a long time ago? Every little bit counts. In the sunlight it is still possible for me to make out some facial features. Others may not get it, but I appreciate the value of using the sun's reflection off the metal grate to find the escalators to the subway station near my office. Others may not understand, but I enjoy the ability to look for the rectangle of light in the otherwise dim station to find the entrance to the train. I use the contrast of the grass and sidewalk to keep myself in a straight line, and the contrast of colors against that sidewalk makes it possible for me to walk around people instead of into them. I still flip on lights to distinguish between my light gray suit and the charcoal. These are examples of what I can still see, and they are stark reminders of what I now find myself slowly losing. Have I relied too much on my sight? I don't know. I've used my sight to the extent I am capable, but since I have not been able to read print in years, I haven't exactly been straining my eyes. I've used what is available to me and put the rest on my ears, nose and hands to work out. It seems foolish to me not to utilize what you still possess to navigate unfamiliar environments--provided you never put too much dependence on any one of your five senses. So, what the heck's the point of this latest rant? Maybe it's a green light for someone in a similar situation to allow themselves to feel bummed about losing the ability to see. I don't have a lot of sight left, but yes, it makes me sad to think it is only a matter of time before this too goes away. Knowing and appreciating the simple concept of color is something for which I am blessed to have experienced firsthand. Maybe it's a reminder to myself that despite occasional reports of new surgeries and medical advances, I could never gamble away what I have held onto for so long. In my case the point is moot, because my remaining eye has undergone so much damage from past surgeries that emerging treatments would likely make my condition worse. Or, maybe, it's a reminder that despite the gloom, things really do turn out alright. It has not been lost on me that my life would have turned out dramatically different if I had never acquired a visual impairment. A gift? I'm probably too cynical to call blindness a gift, but if gifts are measured by the value of people and experiences, then yes, I reckon it's one of the best gifts I've ever received. As to how you deal with the unavoidable, I think you have to keep challenging yourself. List the things that make blindness scary, and break them up into tasks that erode the unknown. Just the other day I went and found a McDonald's I knew to be near my office. It would be easy to rely on the cafeteria in my building because it's convenient, because it's familiar, and maybe because it is safe. I successfully found the restaurant. Once inside I wandered around a bit but eventually found the counter without assistance. If I go again, perhaps I will learn the order of the drinks at the soda fountains. I should probably figure out where the trash goes in case I ever decide to eat there. These are exercises you force yourself to tackle as a matter of course, but they are especially important when you need to overcome change. What this post is not is a cry for pity. I can afford to feel sad because no one will experience the change as keenly as me. I think it's healthy to mourn the persistent loss of a physical ability. I would make a horrible therapist on account of my no nonsense approach to overcoming challenges, but even a no BS character like me can now recognize the value of taking a moment to reflect before jumping to the point of bucking up. Sighted people wonder why I would be impacted by something I have not fully enjoyed in years. Blind people would be tempted to point out I can do anything if I put my mind to it. I am content to know what I had, what I still possess and what I might use moving forward. I think about the victims in Boston who are dealing with the loss of a limb. Life will change in small and large ways. Truth be told, it really sucks, but after a healthy period of mourning, you have to reacquaint yourself with the reality that you control the circumstance, not the other way around. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:20:52 -0400 From: Greg Aikens To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to oneanother Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This depends on what model of braille note you have. The Apex can connect to a printer via bluetooth. The MPower has the infrared option, but as far as I can tell they removed this from the Apex. Neither can print over wifi. -Greg On May 20, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've >> never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you >> explain that to me please? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated >> to oneanother >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a wireless >> printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I >> used >> it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by the >> printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope >> that >> answers your question. >> >> Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of >> Braille >> courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls >> with Pam >> Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual >> trainee >> where they are in each of the class areas and build on those >> skills. >> So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of >> unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on building >> up >> other skills. >> >> HTH! >> >> On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> Sophie, >> I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB >> training >> center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that >> you talk >> to the director of which ever training center that you are >> planning on >> attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I >> attended CCB >> so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sophie >> Trist >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >> To: nabs >> Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to >> one >> another >> >> dear List, >> >> As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >> but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >> know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >> anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >> don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >> if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns >> NFB >> training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and >> I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >> technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >> and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >> wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >> center. Any answer will be appreciated. >> >> Best, >> Sophie Trist >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:37:25 -0400 From: Ashley Coleman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Justin, I use NVDA and think it is better than JAWS in many ways. Ashley On 5/20/13, Justin Young wrote: > Hi All! > > I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA? Is it better than > JAWS? I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages > related to this topic. Thanks as always for your feedback! > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:42:20 -0400 From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA Message-ID: <1CB473E0-60F6-43A5-ACBB-054619F0751B at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Definitely agree Ashley. Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 6:37 PM, Ashley Coleman wrote: > Hi Justin, > I use NVDA and think it is better than JAWS in many ways. > Ashley > > On 5/20/13, Justin Young wrote: >> Hi All! >> >> I was just wondering how many of you use NVDA? Is it better than >> JAWS? I am curious to learn more and enjoy reading the messages >> related to this topic. Thanks as always for your feedback! >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:19:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ashley Griggs To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? Message-ID: <1369091986.7252.YahooMailClassic at web181001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is,?what girl out there?needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a?singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! Thanks, Ashley. ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:22:06 -0400 From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother Message-ID: <2562BFE3AB3648F9A31B52ACAA5D8257 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Infrared is a type of wireless connection. The braille note m power can print to a infared printer. -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated tooneanother Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:52:20 -0500 From: "Gloria G" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls Message-ID: <72CB6E3AC4AF44B9AFC71EA99306FFAA at Gloria> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all, I just got a new computer and am wanting to enstall a good fire wall that is also JAWs friendly. At one point I had AVG, but have heard that there are some free ones out there. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance! Gloria ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:04:24 -0500 From: Jedi Moerke To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. Message-ID: <4F4ACD48-E2E4-4520-AEE0-A2836E5549FF at samobile.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I agree. That was definitely not necessary. Peter produces excellent recordings. I think you'll do the organization well in your step when you're not available. And for the record, I don't find him difficult. Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 8:39 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > FYI, he's on this list... just saying. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 9:36 AM, David Dunphy wrote: > >> If you want to deal with a difficult person, I'd recommend him. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi Moerke" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:45 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >> >> >>> If no one writes, I'd recommend Peter Donahue who does many of the convention recordings. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 19, 2013, at 3:10 PM, Darian Smith wrote: >>> >>>> If anyone is interested in being a backup recorder, please contact me off-list and we'll figure it out. >>>> Thanks so much, >>>> Darian >>>> On May 19, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Darian, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for explaining this process with the NABS membership. It sounds as though you have a good process in place as it concerns the recording of the conference calls. I hope that all individuals involved can respect this process. >>>>> >>>>> I happen to be someone who is a bit wary of being recorded and having this recording be distributed to everyone online. Because of this, I thought it would be nice to receive permission from the guest speaker before the recording was distributed to everyone online. Perhaps the guest speaker would have no problem with this, but I think she should have the right to know that the conference call was being recorded when there was no announcement about it being recorded prior to the call. I think doing such a thing is simply a means of showing respect to the guest speaker. If we are not willing to show respect to our guest speakers then it may be difficult to find guest speakers for our conference calls in the future. >>>>> >>>>> But thank you Darian for serving on the membership committee and working hard to make these conference calls a reality. I know that the membership committee works hard behind the scenes to make these conference calls happen, and I deeply appreciate all the hard work that you and the membership committee do to make these conference calls a reality. >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Darian Smith" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:19 AM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I apologize for getting to this thread as last as I have, but today has been a long one, with A chapter meeting and a few other things. >>>>>> Let me first say that it is not the intention of NABS or the Membership committee to withhold information that can be useful to those we serve. >>>>>> For my part, I was not made aware that the call was going to be streamed or recorded, nor do I remember the participants of the call being given any heads-up that the call would be recorded. >>>>>> if the participants communicate that they are alright with the recording being distributed, then I think it's fine. I'll check with both the speakers of this call to make sure they are fie with it too. >>>>>> I feel the need to correct some misunderstandings as it relates to some of the NABS thought process regarding recordings. >>>>>> We feel that every program that we do should be aimed towards benefitting every student, and that anyone who wants to be a part of creating, running and supporting our programs should be welcomed to do so, because these programs are programs that belong to everyone. >>>>>> We see the NABS membership calls as a successful part of those programs and appreciate the hard work our committee members and guests put into it. >>>>>> an essential part of the success of these Calls is David Dunphy, as he generously gives of his time and resources to make sure that those who cannot join us on these informative confrence calls gets the chance to listen live via his stream, and after the event via recorded audio. >>>>>> In order to insure that each person takes advantage of these options, we ask that We simply be provided with confirmation that his services will be available as well as the links to the appropriate resources. >>>>>> We also ask that should something arise where Our audio access expert might not be available to record the call, that notice be given to the committee before letting the entirety of the NABS membership know that he will be absent. >>>>>> >>>>>> We ask for information prior to it going public, so that we are insuring that we are ahead of any potential concerns, not behind them. >>>>>> We also ask, so we can be sure to communicate any changes with our membership immediately. >>>>>> Because these announcements don't just go to the NABS-L list, they go to many other lists, we want to make sure that the information reaches those interested individuals too. >>>>>> I understand and am well aware that the consistency of notification of, and execution of call recordings has not been near as up to par as anyone would like, and as chair of the membership committee, I apologize to each of you. >>>>>> My expectation of how we operate includes communication and accountability, standards I will strive to model, if I have not done this toan acceptable level. >>>>>> If anyone (David included) has any concerns, questions or suggestions, please do bring them to me off-list so that we can get the heart of the matter in the most civil and productive way possible. >>>>>> I thank you all for your thoughts, opinions and concerns. If we keep asking, questioning and collaborating, we will continue to build a brighter future for ourselves, and generations of students that will come after us. >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Darian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 18, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Arielle, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>   Hold onto your hat for another 360 from Carly! Reading this message, it seems that, duh, the call was slated to have such a feat.One could say It's something that oughta be taken for granted during such calls. Arielle is right, folks should not miss out, simply because some people failed to see plans to post the call. >>>>>>> for today, Car 5/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I am pretty sure I saw NABS tweet that the call was being streamed >>>>>>>> live, and in order for it to be streamed it first had to be recorded. >>>>>>>> So I don't think the recording was taken without people's knowledge or >>>>>>>> permission. I wasn't on the call, and perhaps David should have made >>>>>>>> multiple announcements about the recording happening, but there will >>>>>>>> always be cases where callers come in late and miss the info about the >>>>>>>> call being recorded. I don't think that NABS recordings should be >>>>>>>> withheld from the membership for this reason. >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>> David, >>>>>>>>> Most of us familiar with nabs know you have a radio show online and > also >>>>>>>>> record the nabs calls. >>>>>>>>> I believe you help with the online streaming too, right? >>>>>>>>> If so, I commend your efforts to make the calls both accessible via > the >>>>>>>>> computer and phone lines. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'll send you a note off list to get the file. >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: David Dunphy >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:27 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darian was told I was there with the recording. Take it up with him > and the >>>>>>>>> membership committee if you have issue with whether or not I've > recorded it >>>>>>>>> or not. It was streamed live as well, which was also made clear on the >>>>>>>>> call. >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 4:04 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello David, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it seems to me that there is some discrepancy regarding the recording >> of >>>>>>>>>> these conference calls. Did everyone on the conference call know that >> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> call was being recorded? If not, then I do not believe it is right >> for you >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> to infringe upon their privacy. If you did not receive permission to >>>>>>>>>> record this conference call then I do not believe you have the right >> to >>>>>>>>>> distribute it to other people. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> From: "David Dunphy" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:10 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Epic Philosophy call. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have a copy of the call that can be made available for download if >>>>>>>>>>> people want it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:12:25 -0400 From: "justin" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Message-ID: <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one right afterwards. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go ahead and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or dean for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating against other students in the future. There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, distinguish the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We can help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and support from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the accommodations for you. Arielle On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? > You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or > something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with > your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really > want to take it then go for it! > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no > right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick > and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you > need to take then your disability services people need to help > advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if > push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about > that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as well. > > On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need > and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, > your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want > to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a > geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of > tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you > need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on > otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also > available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done > with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which > you can also borrow for free. > > On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable > accommodations. >> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >> color > is it or does it have any marbling. >> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >> to > >> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >> However, > >> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >> tactile > >> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, > surely so can rock geology. >> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >> a > >> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your > NFB state president. >> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >> select > >> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > >> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >> three > >> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office > does this before you purchase the books. >> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >> -Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson > wrote: >> >>> -- >>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>> >>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>> counselor > >>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>> department > >>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different > rocks apart. >>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>> want > >>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>> to > >>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>> see > >>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>> reading this message. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> % >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 18:18:26 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the national center and just find out what's happening with that case and what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class without your consent. Arielle On 5/19/13, justin wrote: > I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one > right afterwards. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. > Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go > ahead > and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or > dean > for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's > up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth > thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating against > other students in the future. > There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, distinguish > the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We can > help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the > professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many > blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and > support > from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the > accommodations for you. > > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >> want to take it then go for it! >> Zunaira >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >> need to take then your disability services people need to help >> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as > well. >> >> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >> you can also borrow for free. >> >> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >> accommodations. >>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>> color >> is it or does it have any marbling. >>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>> to >> >>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>> However, >> >>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>> tactile >> >>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >> surely so can rock geology. >>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>> a >> >>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >> NFB state president. >>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>> select >> >>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >> >>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>> three >> >>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >> does this before you purchase the books. >>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>> -Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >> wrote: >>> >>>> -- >>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>> >>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>> counselor >> >>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>> department >> >>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >> rocks apart. >>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>> want >> >>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>> to >> >>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>> see >> >>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>> reading this message. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>> g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 00:20:44 +0000 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Ashley! Welcome to the list! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! Thanks, Ashley. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 20:54:33 -0400 From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? Message-ID: <3A3FECD3-5AB3-4636-8D37-A541F5E20CC3 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Oh for goodness sake, it's not spam. This young lady and I am sure many others like her are people that generally want a roommate for these conventions. We went through the same issue last year with another person and I just think it's really sad how people think it's spam when these are people that are generally asking for help. I'm sorry but that is how I feel and if you have a problem with me take it up with me privately, I'm not discussing anymore here. On May 20, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Ashley! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? > > Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! > Thanks, Ashley. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 00:57:34 +0000 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I agree! It appeared in my "junk" folder, so I had to bring it out! I hate it that some list E-Mails appear there! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 7:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? Oh for goodness sake, it's not spam. This young lady and I am sure many others like her are people that generally want a roommate for these conventions. We went through the same issue last year with another person and I just think it's really sad how people think it's spam when these are people that are generally asking for help. I'm sorry but that is how I feel and if you have a problem with me take it up with me privately, I'm not discussing anymore here. On May 20, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Ashley! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? > > Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! > Thanks, Ashley. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 20:09:46 -0500 From: Chelsea Page To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Possible Spam]  National Convention Room ates? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Ashley, welcome to the list! I hope you enjoy convention. Feel free to email me at chelseap08 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Ashley! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Griggs [ashleymuzicyeah at att.net] > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:19 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [Possible Spam] [nabs-l] National Convention Room ates? > > Hello, I am new to nabs and fairly new to the nfb as well. I got word today that I have been awarded the Kenneth Jernigan convention scholarship. Yay! So, my question to all you lovely people is, what girl out there needs a roommate to share costs, or if two people are already rooming, who wants to split the cost even more? :) A little about who you will be rooming with: I'm Ashley. I'm from Illinois. I'm a singer/songwriter/fiddler/fun person. I'm going to East Tennessee State University in the fall to get a degree in bluegrass/country music. I'm 24 and have been totally blind since birth. I use a cane, but I'm fine with dogs...as long as they don't get too sniff-y. ha I'm super easy going! It would be cool to room with someone who has done this a few times before since I'm new to everything. Looking forward to hearing from you! > Thanks, Ashley. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:14:25 -0400 From: Anjelina To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fire Walls Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm not at my computer right now to check, but I remember using free AVG in the past. I think the website is: www.freeavg.com Sent from Anjelina's iPhone On May 20, 2013, at 7:52 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi all, > I just got a new computer and am wanting to enstall a good fire wall that is also JAWs friendly. At one point I had AVG, but have heard that there are some free ones out there. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance! > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:17:21 -0400 From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Message-ID: <3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Arielle, that is terrible. Which sort of class was this? If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good case. Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an elective. As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and did not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes orally; that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not be able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific pages and passages to discuss points. My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and I called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and see if we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when my dss counselor called me to say Prof C came to her and she wanted to discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt that at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an appropriate class for me. Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that two professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was a major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor said that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take it with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x because it did not fit my schedule. For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, and I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me following her class with videos. Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up front with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even though I did not request it. It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She never said not to take it though. She was very curteous in her responses to me. Now, that lit professor was not! Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is resolved. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the national center and just find out what's happening with that case and what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class without your consent. Arielle On 5/19/13, justin wrote: > I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one > right afterwards. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. > Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go > ahead > and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or > dean > for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's > up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth > thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating > against > other students in the future. > There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, > distinguish > the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We > can > help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the > professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many > blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and > support > from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the > accommodations for you. > > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >> want to take it then go for it! >> Zunaira >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >> need to take then your disability services people need to help >> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as > well. >> >> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >> you can also borrow for free. >> >> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >> accommodations. >>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>> color >> is it or does it have any marbling. >>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>> to >> >>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>> However, >> >>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>> tactile >> >>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >> surely so can rock geology. >>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>> a >> >>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >> NFB state president. >>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>> select >> >>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >> >>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>> three >> >>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >> does this before you purchase the books. >>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>> -Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >> wrote: >>> >>>> -- >>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>> >>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>> counselor >> >>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>> department >> >>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >> rocks apart. >>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>> want >> >>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>> to >> >>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>> see >> >>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>> reading this message. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>> g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:28:09 -0400 From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If at all possible, a two-fold approach might be the best. By that I mean instead of just going up the first two rungs of the chain of command one at a time try to get your disability services and the dean to advocate for you at the same time since this guy seems so stubborn. Tell the ds office people that you know this is not okay and since you have perfectly valid reasons for wanting to take this geology course over the online one that there is nothing that would really keep you from being successful in the course provided that the professor gets his act together. Meanwhile, I'd schedule an appointment of the dean of the science department, or however your school is organized, to talk about this. If possible bring proof of the descrimination with you. If the disability service can vouch for you that he hasn't been willing to talk or work with them to help you then you'd have a pretty solid case. Most deans are pretty ethical people and get pretty upset when they find out one of their faculty members isn't doing what they should, especially if it's something as basic and common-sensical like this. Most schools have faculty policies that govern how faculty should work with studens with disabilities too, so if your professor needs to be reminded, for lack of a better term, of these policies then the dean would be the one to help you by communicating those to the professor. Then once the dean says his piece the people in the ds office can start to do their job, and the dean can step in later on as needed. I like Arielle's suggestion of getting the scoop on the Arizona student's case from national office too. Perhaps at least some of the same arguments will apply to you and your situation if you need to use them. Hopefully once your prof gets a talking to from your dean he'll change his tune and that will be all that is needed. I had this happen with a philosophy professor my first semester and the change after another student and I met with the dean was incredible. If the dean sees that this guy is blatantly being descriminant against you and knows you have the resources to go to the next level if need be he'll probably step in and be instrumental in fihelping you. Most schools will do anything to avoid a lawsuit which they wouldn't be able to win, so it might just take the dean coming down on the prof to set the record straight. I hope that's all it takes for you and you get this resolved with as little hassle as possible. Keep us posted if you have any other problems with it. On 5/20/13, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hello, >  This is asolutely not OK.I am a zoology major and thus have to take a > bunch of incredibly visual classes where I've had to fight a lot of battles > with instructors. Your university legally cannot push you around like that > and I have a multitude of suggestions for you. If you would like, you may > write me off list and we can chat further from there. My email is > blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com > Aleeha > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 14:59, Suzanne Germano wrote: > >> I am sure it is for a science requirement to graduate so it can not be >> any >> class. >> >> I would take it up with disabled student services, then I would go to >> dean >> of the geology then I would go up the ladder until I got that instructor >> on >> probation or fired. >> >> The instructor would be fired if he said someone could not take the class >> because they were black yet they can get away with discriminating against >> blind. >> >> >> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Wasif, Zunaira < >> Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote: >> >>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>> want to take it then go for it! >>> Zunaira >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and >>> choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to >>> take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you >>> and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove >>> then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which >>> your DS office should be able to help you with as well. >>> >>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your >>> DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to >>> check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology >>> course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile >>> diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and >>> save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects >>> of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free >>> loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS >>> might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for >>> free. >>> >>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>> accommodations. >>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color >>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to >>> >>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, >>> >>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile >>> >>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>> surely so can rock geology. >>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a >>> >>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>> NFB state president. >>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select >>> >>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >>> >>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three >>> >>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>> -Jewel >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>> >>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor >>> >>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department >>> >>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>> rocks apart. >>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want >>> >>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to >>> >>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see >>> >>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>> reading this message. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org ------------------------------ End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 79, Issue 26 ************************************** _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue May 21 02:58:40 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:58:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother In-Reply-To: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com> References: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3C66E22C5F9147ADA70CBD3F41F309B4@OWNERPC> Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left after 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes but at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months and just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with depression at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre trying to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about going back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much denounced us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat out N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the first time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and he pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to try. In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but didn't quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I do so. Who knows? -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB directly after graduating high school and train during the summer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. Basically all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should be in the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on the BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the unit, assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) with the infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it with the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as well so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. Then the printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through the wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing commands from there. Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, but that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or infrared will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you explain that to me please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaiti Shelton wrote: Sophie, I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB training center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that you talk to the director of which ever training center that you are planning on attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I attended CCB so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM To: nabs Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated to one another dear List, As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns NFB training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, and I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training center. Any answer will be appreciated. Best, Sophie Trist _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine t104%40gmail.com -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From treyman19 at gmail.com Tue May 21 03:04:29 2013 From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 23:04:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I Am Looking To Find a Roomate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi There I have a room and I need a room mate. Just let me know by contacting me by phone 219-789-7073 On 5/20/13, James P. Dickman wrote: > Hello, my name is James Dickman I am 20 years old, and I've been awarded a > Jernigan Scholarship in order to help pay for my attendance to the NFB > national convention. I am looking for a roommate is there anyone out there > that also needs a roommate? > > > I just subscribed to NABS so I hope that my message was sent successfully. > > Thank you, > > James Dickman > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/treyman19%40gmail.com > -- Roosevelt Bradley From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue May 21 03:22:57 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 23:22:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net><19987B73-F692-410E-9E46-88546A7045F6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2CF023EA0EEA42F8B06F9757093BB2C5@OwnerPC> Kaiti, excellent advice! I was going to suggest meeting with the dean too; that is the professor's supervisor after all. -----Original Message----- From: Kaiti Shelton Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester If at all possible, a two-fold approach might be the best. By that I mean instead of just going up the first two rungs of the chain of command one at a time try to get your disability services and the dean to advocate for you at the same time since this guy seems so stubborn. Tell the ds office people that you know this is not okay and since you have perfectly valid reasons for wanting to take this geology course over the online one that there is nothing that would really keep you from being successful in the course provided that the professor gets his act together. Meanwhile, I'd schedule an appointment of the dean of the science department, or however your school is organized, to talk about this. If possible bring proof of the descrimination with you. If the disability service can vouch for you that he hasn't been willing to talk or work with them to help you then you'd have a pretty solid case. Most deans are pretty ethical people and get pretty upset when they find out one of their faculty members isn't doing what they should, especially if it's something as basic and common-sensical like this. Most schools have faculty policies that govern how faculty should work with studens with disabilities too, so if your professor needs to be reminded, for lack of a better term, of these policies then the dean would be the one to help you by communicating those to the professor. Then once the dean says his piece the people in the ds office can start to do their job, and the dean can step in later on as needed. I like Arielle's suggestion of getting the scoop on the Arizona student's case from national office too. Perhaps at least some of the same arguments will apply to you and your situation if you need to use them. Hopefully once your prof gets a talking to from your dean he'll change his tune and that will be all that is needed. I had this happen with a philosophy professor my first semester and the change after another student and I met with the dean was incredible. If the dean sees that this guy is blatantly being descriminant against you and knows you have the resources to go to the next level if need be he'll probably step in and be instrumental in fihelping you. Most schools will do anything to avoid a lawsuit which they wouldn't be able to win, so it might just take the dean coming down on the prof to set the record straight. I hope that's all it takes for you and you get this resolved with as little hassle as possible. Keep us posted if you have any other problems with it. On 5/20/13, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hello, > This is asolutely not OK.I am a zoology major and thus have to take a > bunch of incredibly visual classes where I've had to fight a lot of > battles > with instructors. Your university legally cannot push you around like > that > and I have a multitude of suggestions for you. If you would like, you may > write me off list and we can chat further from there. My email is > blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com > Aleeha > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 20, 2013, at 14:59, Suzanne Germano wrote: > >> I am sure it is for a science requirement to graduate so it can not be >> any >> class. >> >> I would take it up with disabled student services, then I would go to >> dean >> of the geology then I would go up the ladder until I got that instructor >> on >> probation or fired. >> >> The instructor would be fired if he said someone could not take the class >> because they were black yet they can get away with discriminating against >> blind. >> >> >> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Wasif, Zunaira < >> Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote: >> >>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>> want to take it then go for it! >>> Zunaira >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and >>> choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to >>> take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you >>> and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove >>> then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which >>> your DS office should be able to help you with as well. >>> >>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your >>> DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to >>> check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology >>> course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile >>> diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and >>> save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects >>> of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free >>> loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS >>> might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for >>> free. >>> >>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>> accommodations. >>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color >>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to >>> >>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, >>> >>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile >>> >>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>> surely so can rock geology. >>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a >>> >>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>> NFB state president. >>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select >>> >>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >>> >>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three >>> >>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>> -Jewel >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>> >>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor >>> >>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department >>> >>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>> rocks apart. >>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want >>> >>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to >>> >>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see >>> >>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>> reading this message. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue May 21 03:31:52 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 23:31:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net><002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com><3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <27F7C2C3FF0841E5BE59DBEC934E408B@OwnerPC> Arielle, Thanks. Oh, it was in the president's report. I'll check it out! I agree completely. It is fine for professors to share concerns with students about accomodations or any other matter. But it is discrimination to refuse communication or to fail to make accomodations. Joshua can certainly attend the class without his professor's cooperation or knowing he is not wanted there. But it will be impossible to succeed without some accomodations. Many students, including me, worked closely with professors for visual subjects. I utilized office hours a lot. I did something else in lou of the lab credit, but I took the lecture part of biology. The professor and I did a lot of extra work together so she could go slower and describe the processes; not only was it a hard subject for me, but it relied on pictures. Having her on a one to one basis let me ask any questions I needed as well as let me hear the information I needed in a way I could understand; in class she used diagrams and other pictures. Anyway, this is a case of discrimination and sadly I see no easy solution. Yes, I remember very well the speech Stacy delivered; I was there. I commend her efforts to stay in the class. I could not have done it. I would have cried if the professor bullied me and dropped the class. Discrimination is alive and its sad to see this. We want to get ahead like everyone else and just need equal opportunities. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester President Maurer talked about the Arizona case on last year's presidential report. The student's name is Sebastian Ibanez and I believe it was some kind of counseling psychology class, so I'm not sure what the issues were. Sebastian is an old friend of mine but we've lost contact, so I don't know more than that. I don't think it's discriminatory for a professor to share concerns with a blind student about accommodation problems. It is discriminatory for a professor to refuse to communicate with a student about accommodations or to forcibly drop a student from the class roster. At this point it sounds like Joshua is still signed up for the class, and can still attend even if the professor doesn't want him there. However, if the professor is unwilling to arrange necessary accommodations, or pressures Joshua into dropping the class, I believe that is still discriminatory behavior. Several years ago Stacy Cervenka, an old NABS member, talked about her experience taking a horseback riding class. She had a professor who bullied her, made rude comments to her in front of classmates, and strongly pressured her to drop. Stacy was very lucky that her DSS office is headed by a Federationist, who took prompt action to protect Stacy's right to remain in the class without harassment. So yes, discrimination in the college classroom is alive and well. We should all appreciate our professors who do abide by the law, and especially those who go out of their way to help us get the most out of their classes. And to the few who still give us trouble, we just have to keep standing up for ourselves. Arielle On 5/20/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Arielle, > that is terrible. Which sort of class was this? > If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good > case. > Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. > I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an > elective. > > As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and > did > > not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes orally; > that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the > experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not > be > > able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific > pages > > and passages to discuss points. > My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and I > called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and see > if > > we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when my > dss counselor called me to say Prof C came to her and she wanted to > discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. > I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt that > at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an > appropriate > > class for me. > > Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that > two > > professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was a > major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor > said > > that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take > it > > with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual > online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x because > it did not fit my schedule. > For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, > and > > I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their > concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be > accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me following > her class with videos. > Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up > front > > with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even though > I > > did not request it. > It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She never > said not to take it though. She was very curteous in her responses to me. > Now, that lit professor was not! > > Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is > resolved. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped > from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is > working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not > want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the > national center and just find out what's happening with that case and > what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class > without your consent. > > Arielle > > On 5/19/13, justin wrote: >> I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one >> right afterwards. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. >> Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go >> ahead >> and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or >> dean >> for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While >> it's >> up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth >> thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating >> against >> other students in the future. >> There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, >> distinguish >> the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We >> can >> help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the >> professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many >> blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and >> support >> from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the >> accommodations for you. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>> want to take it then go for it! >>> Zunaira >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >>> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >>> need to take then your disability services people need to help >>> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >>> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >>> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as >> well. >>> >>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >>> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >>> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >>> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >>> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >>> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >>> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >>> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >>> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >>> you can also borrow for free. >>> >>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>> accommodations. >>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>>> color >>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>>> to >>> >>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>>> However, >>> >>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>>> tactile >>> >>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>> surely so can rock geology. >>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>>> a >>> >>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>> NFB state president. >>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>>> select >>> >>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >>> >>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>>> three >>> >>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>> -Jewel >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>> >>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>>> counselor >>> >>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>>> department >>> >>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>> rocks apart. >>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>>> want >>> >>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>>> to >>> >>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>>> see >>> >>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>> reading this message. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>>> g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>> % >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Tue May 21 03:34:45 2013 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 23:34:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I Am Looking For A Roomate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi James, Your message was sent! Welcome to the list! I have been floating here for a while and if nothing more you will be introduced to a lot of great people and you will learn about all kinds of different things. I can't begin to tell you how much I gain just from reading posts and responses. This is quite the community. I'm sorry to say as of now I can not solve your roommate problem but, I can keep you in mind if there is another person in search. See you at nationals! Best, Bridget Sent from my iPad On May 20, 2013, at 9:38 PM, "James P. Dickman" wrote: > Hello everyone, my name is James Dickman and I am looking for a roommate for the national convention is there anyone out there that is also looking for a roommate? Also I just joined the nabs mailing list, if someone can please reply to me, so I know that my message has been sent I would really appreciate it. > > Thank you > James Dickman > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 21 03:48:19 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:48:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training Centers Message-ID: Hi Dave, Students drop out of NFB centers for many different reasons. I know that some students have successfully re-trained and graduated from an NFB center after dropping out once. I am sorry Joanne had such a negative reaction but it would be worth discussing with Pam. She should understand how mental health conditions work and that medications can make a huge difference. Center training can trigger occasional temporary depression among the best of us, so it is not surprising that it was so difficult for you if you had a mental health condition that wasn't being treated. I know some students have also received counseling while in training. The center staff do not expect anyone to agree with all the NFB philosophy; they merely expect students to make a commitment to training and to work hard. If you feel you have gotten the help you need to put your all into the training experience then I'd encourage you to reach out to LCB again. Best, Arielle On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't > test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left after > > 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes but > > at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too > familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months and > > just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with depression > > at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre trying > > to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about going > > back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me > because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if > she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say > well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much denounced > > us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know > you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when > Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's > pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat out > > N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the first > > time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I > even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and he > pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're > not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to try. > > In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but didn't > > quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't > believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I do > > so. Who knows? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelatedtooneanother > > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. > Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it > with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or > infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to > one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue May 21 04:04:21 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:04:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <09E06CDC2FA444DAAB3930194AB06AE1@OWNERPC> yea thanks . I've lived on my own before and did ok but I'd get too depressed. I have bipolar so at times I do ok but at other times I don't do so well. when I lived in an apartment by myself I'd be fine for a few months and then go into like a mantic episode. then all kinds of things would happen. I'm ok with taking my meds but I just need reminders. I guess you could say I pretty much live on my own right now. I actually live in a board and care facility. This isn't a facility for those who have mental illnesses its just the run of the mill small group facility. I do pretty much everything on my own such as travel and all of the other stuff. Of course our meals are included with the services we get here so. Basically I'm there because I can get the extra help I need when it comes to my meds. it helps living with people as well. We can come and go as we please and all of that which is good. It helps because they give meds at a certain time so. this way if I forget they just come in and say hey here's your meds or your meds are on the table or something like that. they're nice people. If I wre to go back to Lcb which I haven't really decided yet I'm just thinking about it and if I did how I'd manage my illness being that I'd pretty much be in an apartment with a roommate but pretty much be managing stuff myself and in the past I hadn't done well with that aspect of it. I'd always mess something up when it came to my meds. I mean not deliberately but. Two of the same things would accidently get put into one slot and I'd end up taking more or les of something but I wouldn't realize it until like after. so. it was hard. -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Training Centers Hi Dave, Students drop out of NFB centers for many different reasons. I know that some students have successfully re-trained and graduated from an NFB center after dropping out once. I am sorry Joanne had such a negative reaction but it would be worth discussing with Pam. She should understand how mental health conditions work and that medications can make a huge difference. Center training can trigger occasional temporary depression among the best of us, so it is not surprising that it was so difficult for you if you had a mental health condition that wasn't being treated. I know some students have also received counseling while in training. The center staff do not expect anyone to agree with all the NFB philosophy; they merely expect students to make a commitment to training and to work hard. If you feel you have gotten the help you need to put your all into the training experience then I'd encourage you to reach out to LCB again. Best, Arielle On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't > test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left > after > > 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes > but > > at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too > familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months > and > > just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with > depression > > at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre > trying > > to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about > going > > back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me > because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if > she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say > well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much > denounced > > us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know > you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when > Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's > pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat > out > > N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the > first > > time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I > even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and he > pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're > not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to > try. > > In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but > didn't > > quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't > believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I > do > > so. Who knows? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelatedtooneanother > > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. > Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it > with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or > infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to > one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue May 21 04:13:24 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 00:13:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother In-Reply-To: <3C66E22C5F9147ADA70CBD3F41F309B4@OWNERPC> References: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com> <3C66E22C5F9147ADA70CBD3F41F309B4@OWNERPC> Message-ID: I don't want to pass judgment, since I don't know you or the circumstances that lead up to your leaving, but one thing that I see as glaringly obvious is that a lot, and I do mean A LOT, can change in 14 years. For anyone to hold a grudge against someone for that long is unacceptable. I don't want to say anything else, as I'm only going on hearsay here, and although I could let my anger at what you've said carry me a lot further, I won't since this is a public list and I don't know all the facts. Dave, if you would like to contact me off list to discuss this further, maybe that would be a better course of action at this point. On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't > test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left after > > 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes but > > at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too > familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months and > > just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with depression > > at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre trying > > to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about going > > back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me > because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if > she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say > well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much denounced > > us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know > you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when > Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's > pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat out > > N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the first > > time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I > even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and he > pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're > not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to try. > > In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but didn't > > quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't > believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I do > > so. Who knows? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelatedtooneanother > > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. > Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it > with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or > infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to > one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 21 04:37:26 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 22:37:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training Centers In-Reply-To: <09E06CDC2FA444DAAB3930194AB06AE1@OWNERPC> References: <09E06CDC2FA444DAAB3930194AB06AE1@OWNERPC> Message-ID: It sounds like now you have a better understanding of your needs than you did in 1997. It'd be worth discussing with Pam. If you just need medication reminders, they do have a residential manager on-site who could perhaps help with that. I'm discussing this on-list because I suspect that many folks attending NFB centers have mental health conditions (as do many people in the general population) and there may be others here who are concerned about going to a center because of having a mental health condition. I believe the centers will make every attempt to work with your particular situation, so I would encourage you to talk to their directors about your particular needs. There is a myth that NFB centers don't accept students who have disabilities other than blindness and that is simply not true. I've met several students who had very obvious other disabilities and I am sure there are also students with less visible ones. It's just a matter of seeing how the center can help you get the most out of their program with whatever particular needs you have. Best, Arielle On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: > yea thanks > . I've lived on my own before and did ok but I'd get too depressed. I have > > bipolar so at times I do ok but at other times I don't do so well. when I > lived in an apartment by myself I'd be fine for a few months and then go > into like a mantic episode. then all kinds of things would happen. I'm ok > > with taking my meds but I just need reminders. I guess you could say I > pretty much live on my own right now. I actually live in a board and care > facility. This isn't a facility for those who have mental illnesses its > just the run of the mill small group facility. I do pretty much everything > > on my own such as travel and all of the other stuff. Of course our meals > are included with the services we get here so. Basically I'm there because > > I can get the extra help I need when it comes to my meds. it helps living > with people as well. We can come and go as we please and all of that which > > is good. It helps because they give meds at a certain time so. this way if > > I forget they just come in and say hey here's your meds or your meds are on > > the table or something like that. they're nice people. If I wre to go back > > to Lcb which I haven't really decided yet I'm just thinking about it and if > > I did how I'd manage my illness being that I'd pretty much be in an > apartment with a roommate but pretty much be managing stuff myself and in > the past I hadn't done well with that aspect of it. I'd always mess > something up when it came to my meds. I mean not deliberately but. Two of > > the same things would accidently get put into one slot and I'd end up taking > > more or les of something but I wouldn't realize it until like after. so. > it was hard. > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Training Centers > > Hi Dave, > Students drop out of NFB centers for many different reasons. I know > that some students have successfully re-trained and graduated from an > NFB center after dropping out once. I am sorry Joanne had such a > negative reaction but it would be worth discussing with Pam. She > should understand how mental health conditions work and that > medications can make a huge difference. Center training can trigger > occasional temporary depression among the best of us, so it is not > surprising that it was so difficult for you if you had a mental health > condition that wasn't being treated. I know some students have also > received counseling while in training. The center staff do not expect > anyone to agree with all the NFB philosophy; they merely expect > students to make a commitment to training and to work hard. If you > feel you have gotten the help you need to put your all into the > training experience then I'd encourage you to reach out to LCB again. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: >> Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't >> test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left >> after >> >> 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes >> but >> >> at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too >> familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months >> and >> >> just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with >> depression >> >> at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre >> trying >> >> to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about >> going >> >> back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me >> because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if >> she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say >> well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much >> denounced >> >> us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know >> you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when >> Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's >> pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat >> out >> >> N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the >> first >> >> time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I >> even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and >> he >> pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're >> not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to >> try. >> >> In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but >> didn't >> >> quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't >> believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I >> do >> >> so. Who knows? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sophie Trist >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely >> unrelatedtooneanother >> >> Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and >> end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB >> directly after graduating high school and train during the >> summer. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated >> tooneanother >> >> Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly >> how >> you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual >> needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had >> been in >> Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I >> didn't >> need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the >> teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really >> needed >> more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class >> first >> thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that >> class >> which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to >> replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they >> agreed. I >> still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to >> practice >> slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test >> out >> completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my >> fiancee >> in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible >> enough >> to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test >> out >> of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the >> required >> projects quickly. I know some students who have come with >> excellent >> cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish >> those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest >> of >> their training on the other classes. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. >> Basically >> all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should >> be in >> the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on >> the >> BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the >> unit, >> assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) >> with the >> infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it >> with >> the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as >> well >> so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. >> Then the >> printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through >> the >> wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing >> commands >> from there. >> Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, >> but >> that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or >> infrared >> will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. >> >> On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've >> never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you >> explain that to me please? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely >> unrelated >> to oneanother >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a >> wireless >> printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I >> used >> it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by >> the >> printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope >> that >> answers your question. >> >> Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of >> Braille >> courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls >> with Pam >> Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual >> trainee >> where they are in each of the class areas and build on those >> skills. >> So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of >> unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on >> building >> up >> other skills. >> >> HTH! >> >> On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> Sophie, >> I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB >> training >> center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that >> you talk >> to the director of which ever training center that you are >> planning on >> attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I >> attended CCB >> so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sophie >> Trist >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >> To: nabs >> Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated >> to >> one >> another >> >> dear List, >> >> As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >> but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >> know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >> anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >> don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >> if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns >> NFB >> training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, >> and >> I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >> technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >> and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >> wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >> center. Any answer will be appreciated. >> >> Best, >> Sophie Trist >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue May 21 04:52:21 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:52:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother In-Reply-To: References: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com><3C66E22C5F9147ADA70CBD3F41F309B4@OWNERPC> Message-ID: yea that's cool? who wanted to contact me off list? ariel? right? I think that's who it was. yea you can contact me off list. I think my email address is there because I replied to posts so I think its there. Feel free. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother I don't want to pass judgment, since I don't know you or the circumstances that lead up to your leaving, but one thing that I see as glaringly obvious is that a lot, and I do mean A LOT, can change in 14 years. For anyone to hold a grudge against someone for that long is unacceptable. I don't want to say anything else, as I'm only going on hearsay here, and although I could let my anger at what you've said carry me a lot further, I won't since this is a public list and I don't know all the facts. Dave, if you would like to contact me off list to discuss this further, maybe that would be a better course of action at this point. On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't > test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left > after > > 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes > but > > at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too > familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months > and > > just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with > depression > > at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre > trying > > to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about > going > > back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me > because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if > she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say > well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much > denounced > > us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know > you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when > Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's > pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat > out > > N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the > first > > time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I > even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and he > pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're > not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to > try. > > In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but > didn't > > quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't > believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I > do > > so. Who knows? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelatedtooneanother > > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. > Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it > with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or > infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to > one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue May 21 06:18:10 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 02:18:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother In-Reply-To: References: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com> <3C66E22C5F9147ADA70CBD3F41F309B4@OWNERPC> Message-ID: Hi, No, it was me. My email address is turtlepower17 at gmail.com. It's late now, but I'll write to you in more detail later on today. On 5/21/13, Dave Webster wrote: > yea that's cool? who wanted to contact me off list? ariel? right? I > > think that's who it was. yea you can contact me off list. I think my email > > address is there because I replied to posts so I think its there. Feel > free. > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelatedtooneanother > > I don't want to pass judgment, since I don't know you or the > circumstances that lead up to your leaving, but one thing that I see > as glaringly obvious is that a lot, and I do mean A LOT, can change in > 14 years. For anyone to hold a grudge against someone for that long is > unacceptable. I don't want to say anything else, as I'm only going on > hearsay here, and although I could let my anger at what you've said > carry me a lot further, I won't since this is a public list and I > don't know all the facts. Dave, if you would like to contact me off > list to discuss this further, maybe that would be a better course of > action at this point. > > On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: >> Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't >> test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left >> after >> >> 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes >> but >> >> at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too >> familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months >> and >> >> just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with >> depression >> >> at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre >> trying >> >> to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about >> going >> >> back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me >> because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if >> she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say >> well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much >> denounced >> >> us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know >> you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when >> Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's >> pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat >> out >> >> N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the >> first >> >> time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I >> even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and >> he >> pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're >> not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to >> try. >> >> In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but >> didn't >> >> quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't >> believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I >> do >> >> so. Who knows? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sophie Trist >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely >> unrelatedtooneanother >> >> Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and >> end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB >> directly after graduating high school and train during the >> summer. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated >> tooneanother >> >> Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly >> how >> you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual >> needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had >> been in >> Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I >> didn't >> need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the >> teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really >> needed >> more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class >> first >> thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that >> class >> which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to >> replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they >> agreed. I >> still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to >> practice >> slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test >> out >> completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my >> fiancee >> in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible >> enough >> to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test >> out >> of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the >> required >> projects quickly. I know some students who have come with >> excellent >> cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish >> those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest >> of >> their training on the other classes. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. >> Basically >> all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should >> be in >> the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on >> the >> BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the >> unit, >> assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) >> with the >> infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it >> with >> the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as >> well >> so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. >> Then the >> printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through >> the >> wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing >> commands >> from there. >> Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, >> but >> that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or >> infrared >> will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. >> >> On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've >> never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you >> explain that to me please? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely >> unrelated >> to oneanother >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a >> wireless >> printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I >> used >> it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by >> the >> printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope >> that >> answers your question. >> >> Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of >> Braille >> courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls >> with Pam >> Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual >> trainee >> where they are in each of the class areas and build on those >> skills. >> So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of >> unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on >> building >> up >> other skills. >> >> HTH! >> >> On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> Sophie, >> I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB >> training >> center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that >> you talk >> to the director of which ever training center that you are >> planning on >> attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I >> attended CCB >> so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sophie >> Trist >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM >> To: nabs >> Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated >> to >> one >> another >> >> dear List, >> >> As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, >> but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I >> know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check >> anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I >> don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient >> if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns >> NFB >> training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, >> and >> I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, >> technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 >> and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was >> wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training >> center. Any answer will be appreciated. >> >> Best, >> Sophie Trist >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From dburke at cocenter.org Tue May 21 14:59:13 2013 From: dburke at cocenter.org (Dan Burke) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 08:59:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> <3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <012201ce5633$c36fadc0$4a4f0940$@cocenter.org> There have been some very sound suggestions given on this topic. Congrats to everyone. I want to bring up a couple of things to be aware of if you don't get satisfactory results after going up the chain of command, as wisely suggested by your peers. First, the ADA requires that your school appoints an ADA/Section 504 Coordinator. Their job is to oversee compliance. Sometimes this is the DS office, which is not a good model - it's in fact a conflict of interest. In any case, The ADA/Section 504 Coordinator is supposed to have identified an Alternative Dispute Resolution process. This should be just what it sounds like - something short of filing a formal complaint, and that can be resolved in a relatively short period of time. All this info should be accessible on your school's web site. In addition, your school's Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action officer may have a formal on-campus complaint process. Again, this is short of filing something with the Office of Civil Rights (OCR). My suggestion is that if you strike out a couple of more times, say all the way to the Dean's office, consider two concurrent lines of action: 1) find out what these on-campus processes are and whom to contact; and 2) contact your state NFB president for support. BTW, someone mentioned Gary Vermeij in an early post on this list, as an example of a blind scientist. Dr. Vermeij studies both living and fossilized shells and is also a past recipient of a MacArthur genius grant. I recommend two readings by him. The first would be good for your geology professor as well. It is an old American Scholar article entitled "Listening to a Tide Pool." The second reading, maybe a fun summer read, is Dr. Vermeij's memoir, Privileged Hands. NLS offered it in web Braille, and it may be available in audio and on Bookshare. Best of luck and stay strong! Dan ----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Hendrickson Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:12 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester Hello to all. I want to thank all of you for your great suggestions. I will let you all know how my meeting turns ut. I know what you mean when you talk about teachers who are willing to work with you to get the most from their class. My math teacher last semester was really good, he had no problems with me taking dvd's outside the class and completing the needed questions at home. He even did the tests with me orally so I had no problems there. I had great tutoring for the math homework so it wasn't hard for me to figure out the needed concepts. Thanks again all. On 5/20/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Oh, and is it possible for you to get the geology professor's contact > info and email or call him up yourself? Just tell him you're signed up > for his class and that you want to know about textbooks assigned and > the syllabus. If he doesn't answer you, or if he writes you an email > stating he doesn't want you in his class, that's more evidence you've > got. > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> President Maurer talked about the Arizona case on last year's >> presidential report. The student's name is Sebastian Ibanez and I >> believe it was some kind of counseling psychology class, so I'm not >> sure what the issues were. Sebastian is an old friend of mine but >> we've lost contact, so I don't know more than that. >> I don't think it's discriminatory for a professor to share concerns >> with a blind student about accommodation problems. It is >> discriminatory for a professor to refuse to communicate with a student >> about accommodations or to forcibly drop a student from the class >> roster. At this point it sounds like Joshua is still signed up for the >> class, and can still attend even if the professor doesn't want him >> there. However, if the professor is unwilling to arrange necessary >> accommodations, or pressures Joshua into dropping the class, I believe >> that is still discriminatory behavior. >> Several years ago Stacy Cervenka, an old NABS member, talked about her >> experience taking a horseback riding class. She had a professor who >> bullied her, made rude comments to her in front of classmates, and >> strongly pressured her to drop. Stacy was very lucky that her DSS >> office is headed by a Federationist, who took prompt action to protect >> Stacy's right to remain in the class without harassment. >> So yes, discrimination in the college classroom is alive and well. We >> should all appreciate our professors who do abide by the law, and >> especially those who go out of their way to help us get the most out >> of their classes. And to the few who still give us trouble, we just >> have to keep standing up for ourselves. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/20/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Arielle, >>> that is terrible. Which sort of class was this? >>> If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good >>> case. >>> Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. >>> I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an >>> elective. >>> >>> As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and >>> did >>> >>> not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes >>> orally; >>> that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the >>> experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not >>> be >>> >>> able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific >>> pages >>> >>> and passages to discuss points. >>> My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and >>> I >>> called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and >>> see >>> if >>> >>> we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when >>> my >>> dss counselor called me to say Prof C came to her and she wanted to >>> discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. >>> I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt >>> that >>> at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an >>> appropriate >>> >>> class for me. >>> >>> Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that >>> two >>> >>> professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was >>> a >>> major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor >>> said >>> >>> that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take >>> it >>> >>> with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual >>> online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x >>> because >>> it did not fit my schedule. >>> For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, >>> and >>> >>> I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their >>> concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be >>> accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me >>> following >>> her class with videos. >>> Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up >>> front >>> >>> with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even >>> though >>> I >>> >>> did not request it. >>> It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She >>> never >>> said not to take it though. She was very curteous in her responses to >>> me. >>> Now, that lit professor was not! >>> >>> Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is >>> resolved. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped >>> from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is >>> working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not >>> want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the >>> national center and just find out what's happening with that case and >>> what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class >>> without your consent. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/19/13, justin wrote: >>>> I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one >>>> right afterwards. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >>>> Silverman >>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>>> science class for next semester >>>> >>>> This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. >>>> Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go >>>> ahead >>>> and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or >>>> dean >>>> for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While >>>> it's >>>> up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth >>>> thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating >>>> against >>>> other students in the future. >>>> There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, >>>> distinguish >>>> the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We >>>> can >>>> help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the >>>> professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that >>>> many >>>> blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and >>>> support >>>> from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the >>>> accommodations for you. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >>>>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>>>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>>>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>>>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>>>> want to take it then go for it! >>>>> Zunaira >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>> Shelton >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>>>> science class for next semester >>>>> >>>>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>>>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >>>>> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >>>>> need to take then your disability services people need to help >>>>> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >>>>> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >>>>> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with >>>>> as >>>> well. >>>>> >>>>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>>>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >>>>> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >>>>> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >>>>> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >>>>> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >>>>> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >>>>> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >>>>> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >>>>> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >>>>> you can also borrow for free. >>>>> >>>>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>>>> accommodations. >>>>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>>>>> color >>>>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>>>>> However, >>>>> >>>>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>>>>> tactile >>>>> >>>>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>>>> surely so can rock geology. >>>>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>>>>> a >>>>> >>>>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>>>> NFB state president. >>>>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>>>>> select >>>>> >>>>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down >>>>>> menu. >>>>> >>>>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>>>>> three >>>>> >>>>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>>>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>>>> -Jewel >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>>>>> counselor >>>>> >>>>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>>>>> department >>>>> >>>>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>>>> rocks apart. >>>>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>>>>> want >>>>> >>>>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>>>>> see >>>>> >>>>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>>>> reading this message. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>>>>> g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>>>> % >>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>>>> fldoe.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com > -- Joshua T Hendrickson _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue May 21 15:13:58 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 11:13:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother In-Reply-To: References: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com><3C66E22C5F9147ADA70CBD3F41F309B4@OWNERPC> Message-ID: <48252FCA07D049EEA68E9EF5BF12A4C3@OwnerPC> Dave, it was Desiree who wanted to talk off list. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:52 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother yea that's cool? who wanted to contact me off list? ariel? right? I think that's who it was. yea you can contact me off list. I think my email address is there because I replied to posts so I think its there. Feel free. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother I don't want to pass judgment, since I don't know you or the circumstances that lead up to your leaving, but one thing that I see as glaringly obvious is that a lot, and I do mean A LOT, can change in 14 years. For anyone to hold a grudge against someone for that long is unacceptable. I don't want to say anything else, as I'm only going on hearsay here, and although I could let my anger at what you've said carry me a lot further, I won't since this is a public list and I don't know all the facts. Dave, if you would like to contact me off list to discuss this further, maybe that would be a better course of action at this point. On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't > test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left > after > > 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes > but > > at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too > familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months > and > > just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with > depression > > at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre > trying > > to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about > going > > back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me > because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if > she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say > well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much > denounced > > us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know > you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when > Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's > pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat > out > > N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the > first > > time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I > even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and he > pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're > not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to > try. > > In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but > didn't > > quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't > believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I > do > > so. Who knows? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelatedtooneanother > > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. > Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it > with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or > infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to > one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon May 20 16:22:54 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The National Association of Blind Students Presents: The Basics of NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005801ce5576$48f96990$daec3cb0$@gmail.com> Is that call recorded anywhere? My pc wad down when you sent this message. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:18 PM To: North Carolina Association of blind students; Arizona Association of blind students; Kentucky Association of blind students; Virginia Association of blind students; Maryland Association of blind students; Ohio Association of blind students; West Virginia Association of blind students; New York Association of blind students; New Hampshire Association of blind students; New Jersey Association of blind students; Illinois Association of blind students; Colorado Association of Blind Students; Texas Association of blind students; New Mexico Association of Blind Students; Georgia Association of blind students; Louisiana Association of blind students; fabs at nfbnet.org; Massachusetts Association of blind students; Tennessee Association of blind students; Minnesota Association of blind students; National Association of Blind Students mailing list; List for NABS State Presidents; cabs-talk blind students; Michigan Association of blind students; Wisconsin Association of blind students; Nebraska Association of blind students; Missouri Association of Blind Students; Alabama Association of blind students; Utah Association of blind students; Blind International Students Mailing List Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The National Association of Blind Students Presents: The Basics of NFB Philosophy > > > Greetings Fellow Students! > We have all no doubt heard the term "Federation Philosophy" at one point or another, but how many of us can say that we truly understand it's meaning? > Fortunately we have experienced leaders in the Federation to explain the basics of NFB Philosophy to those of us who really want to understand it, and are curious enough to ask questions. > > Join NABS as we welcome special guest presenter Pam Allen, President > of the NFB of Louisiana, treasurer of the NFB board of directors, and Director of the Louisiana Center for the Blind (LCB) as we discuss what exactly is the philosophy of the national Federation of the Blind. > We are excited to have such a respected and admired member of our movement taking time out of her evening to have this discussion, so we really hope you can join us. > > When: Thursday, May 16th, 2013. 9p.m. ET. > Call: (605) - 475 - 6700 and enter code 7869673. > > > Darian Smith > 2nd Vice President, National Association of Blind Students > dsmithnfb at gmail.com > > www.nabslink.org > Follow the National Association of Blind Students on twitter: > @nabslink > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From djd76257 at gmail.com Tue May 21 17:13:37 2013 From: djd76257 at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:13:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The National Association of Blind StudentsPresents: The Basics of NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <005801ce5576$48f96990$daec3cb0$@gmail.com> References: <005801ce5576$48f96990$daec3cb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8E14077882274A97B4DC79B6884A8863@WildJasmine> Yes, here's a link to the call: http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/jr7d1h ----- Original Message ----- From: "justin" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The National Association of Blind StudentsPresents: The Basics of NFB Philosophy > Is that call recorded anywhere? My pc wad down when you sent this message. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:18 PM > To: North Carolina Association of blind students; Arizona Association of > blind students; Kentucky Association of blind students; Virginia > Association > of blind students; Maryland Association of blind students; Ohio > Association > of blind students; West Virginia Association of blind students; New York > Association of blind students; New Hampshire Association of blind > students; > New Jersey Association of blind students; Illinois Association of blind > students; Colorado Association of Blind Students; Texas Association of > blind > students; New Mexico Association of Blind Students; Georgia Association of > blind students; Louisiana Association of blind students; fabs at nfbnet.org; > Massachusetts Association of blind students; Tennessee Association of > blind > students; Minnesota Association of blind students; National Association of > Blind Students mailing list; List for NABS State Presidents; cabs-talk > blind > students; Michigan Association of blind students; Wisconsin Association of > blind students; Nebraska Association of blind students; Missouri > Association > of Blind Students; Alabama Association of blind students; Utah Association > of blind students; Blind International Students Mailing List > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The National Association of Blind Students Presents: > The Basics of NFB Philosophy > > >> >> >> Greetings Fellow Students! >> We have all no doubt heard the term "Federation Philosophy" at one point > or another, but how many of us can say that we truly understand it's > meaning? >> Fortunately we have experienced leaders in the Federation to explain the > basics of NFB Philosophy to those of us who really want to understand it, > and are curious enough to ask questions. >> >> Join NABS as we welcome special guest presenter Pam Allen, President >> of the NFB of Louisiana, treasurer of the NFB board of directors, and > Director of the Louisiana Center for the Blind (LCB) as we discuss what > exactly is the philosophy of the national Federation of the Blind. >> We are excited to have such a respected and admired member of our >> movement > taking time out of her evening to have this discussion, so we really hope > you can join us. >> >> When: Thursday, May 16th, 2013. 9p.m. ET. >> Call: (605) - 475 - 6700 and enter code 7869673. >> >> >> Darian Smith >> 2nd Vice President, National Association of Blind Students >> dsmithnfb at gmail.com >> >> www.nabslink.org >> Follow the National Association of Blind Students on twitter: >> @nabslink >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Tue May 21 18:43:07 2013 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:43:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Thinking Of Those in Oklahoma Message-ID: <519bc04a.ce69e00a.0d68.1a60@mx.google.com> To all of the Nfb members in Oklahoma, I am sorry to hear about the tornadoes that touched down yesterday and on Sunday. Our prayers and thoughts go out to the families of those who lost their lives in this tragedy. You will rebuild and be stronger after these tragic events. From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue May 21 21:53:31 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:53:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother In-Reply-To: <48252FCA07D049EEA68E9EF5BF12A4C3@OwnerPC> References: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com><3C66E22C5F9147ADA70CBD3F41F309B4@OWNERPC> <48252FCA07D049EEA68E9EF5BF12A4C3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <322A71E5597F423BB775F1FC3F4087A8@OWNERPC> Ok cool. what's your email? ----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:13 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother Dave, it was Desiree who wanted to talk off list. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:52 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother yea that's cool? who wanted to contact me off list? ariel? right? I think that's who it was. yea you can contact me off list. I think my email address is there because I replied to posts so I think its there. Feel free. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother I don't want to pass judgment, since I don't know you or the circumstances that lead up to your leaving, but one thing that I see as glaringly obvious is that a lot, and I do mean A LOT, can change in 14 years. For anyone to hold a grudge against someone for that long is unacceptable. I don't want to say anything else, as I'm only going on hearsay here, and although I could let my anger at what you've said carry me a lot further, I won't since this is a public list and I don't know all the facts. Dave, if you would like to contact me off list to discuss this further, maybe that would be a better course of action at this point. On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't > test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left > after > > 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes > but > > at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too > familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months > and > > just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with > depression > > at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre > trying > > to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about > going > > back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me > because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if > she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say > well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much > denounced > > us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know > you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when > Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's > pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat > out > > N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the > first > > time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I > even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and he > pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're > not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to > try. > > In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but > didn't > > quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't > believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I > do > > so. Who knows? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelatedtooneanother > > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. > Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it > with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or > infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to > one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Tue May 21 21:51:04 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 15:51:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: I agree with arielle. can you just register for the class like everyone else? I took a geology class. I hired and took my own reader to labs and I also had a reader who also was taking the class. she got the notes that i missed. we would work together on the class. Blessings, Sincerely, Melissa and Pj Find me on: Twitter melissa5674 facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go ahead and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or dean for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While it's up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating against other students in the future. There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, distinguish the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We can help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and support from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the accommodations for you. Arielle On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? > You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or > something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with > your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really > want to take it then go for it! > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no > right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick and > choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you need to > take then your disability services people need to help advocate for you > and set the record straight with this guy. And, if push comes to shove > then you may need to file an ADA complaint about that professor, which > your DS office should be able to help you with as well. > > On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need > and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, your > DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want to > check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a geology > course before, but I know APH has published several books of tactile > diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you need and > save time for the DS office that they can use to work on otther aspects > of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also available for free > loans and you could send them back when you're done with the class. NLS > might also have some textbooks on geology which you can also borrow for > free. > > On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable > accommodations. >> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what color > is it or does it have any marbling. >> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want to > >> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. However, > >> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a tactile > >> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, > surely so can rock geology. >> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, a > >> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your > NFB state president. >> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, select > >> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. > >> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to three > >> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office > does this before you purchase the books. >> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >> -Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson > wrote: >> >>> -- >>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>> >>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a counselor > >>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science department > >>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different > rocks apart. >>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really want > >>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going to > >>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to see > >>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>> reading this message. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Tue May 21 21:54:43 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 15:54:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net><002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com><3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: very well said. I would add its really good to have someone fighting with, and for you. not against you. Hope that joshua can find someone to fight with and for him. Blessings, Sincerely, Melissa and Pj Find me on: Twitter melissa5674 facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester President Maurer talked about the Arizona case on last year's presidential report. The student's name is Sebastian Ibanez and I believe it was some kind of counseling psychology class, so I'm not sure what the issues were. Sebastian is an old friend of mine but we've lost contact, so I don't know more than that. I don't think it's discriminatory for a professor to share concerns with a blind student about accommodation problems. It is discriminatory for a professor to refuse to communicate with a student about accommodations or to forcibly drop a student from the class roster. At this point it sounds like Joshua is still signed up for the class, and can still attend even if the professor doesn't want him there. However, if the professor is unwilling to arrange necessary accommodations, or pressures Joshua into dropping the class, I believe that is still discriminatory behavior. Several years ago Stacy Cervenka, an old NABS member, talked about her experience taking a horseback riding class. She had a professor who bullied her, made rude comments to her in front of classmates, and strongly pressured her to drop. Stacy was very lucky that her DSS office is headed by a Federationist, who took prompt action to protect Stacy's right to remain in the class without harassment. So yes, discrimination in the college classroom is alive and well. We should all appreciate our professors who do abide by the law, and especially those who go out of their way to help us get the most out of their classes. And to the few who still give us trouble, we just have to keep standing up for ourselves. Arielle On 5/20/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Arielle, > that is terrible. Which sort of class was this? > If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good > case. > Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. > I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an > elective. > > As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and > did > > not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes orally; > that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the > experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not > be > > able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific > pages > > and passages to discuss points. > My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and I > called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and see > if > > we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when my > dss counselor called me to say Prof C came to her and she wanted to > discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. > I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt that > at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an > appropriate > > class for me. > > Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that > two > > professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was a > major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor > said > > that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take > it > > with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual > online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x because > it did not fit my schedule. > For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, > and > > I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their > concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be > accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me following > her class with videos. > Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up > front > > with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even though > I > > did not request it. > It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She never > said not to take it though. She was very curteous in her responses to me. > Now, that lit professor was not! > > Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is > resolved. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped > from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is > working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not > want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the > national center and just find out what's happening with that case and > what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class > without your consent. > > Arielle > > On 5/19/13, justin wrote: >> I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one >> right afterwards. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. >> Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go >> ahead >> and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or >> dean >> for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While >> it's >> up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth >> thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating >> against >> other students in the future. >> There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, >> distinguish >> the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We >> can >> help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the >> professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many >> blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and >> support >> from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the >> accommodations for you. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>> want to take it then go for it! >>> Zunaira >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >>> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >>> need to take then your disability services people need to help >>> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >>> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >>> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as >> well. >>> >>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >>> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >>> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >>> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >>> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >>> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >>> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >>> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >>> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >>> you can also borrow for free. >>> >>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>> accommodations. >>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>>> color >>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>>> to >>> >>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>>> However, >>> >>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>>> tactile >>> >>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>> surely so can rock geology. >>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>>> a >>> >>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>> NFB state president. >>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>>> select >>> >>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >>> >>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>>> three >>> >>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>> -Jewel >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>> >>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>>> counselor >>> >>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>>> department >>> >>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>> rocks apart. >>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>>> want >>> >>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>>> to >>> >>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>>> see >>> >>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>> reading this message. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>>> g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>> % >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue May 21 22:17:06 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 18:17:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother In-Reply-To: <322A71E5597F423BB775F1FC3F4087A8@OWNERPC> References: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com><3C66E22C5F9147ADA70CBD3F41F309B4@OWNERPC><48252FCA07D049EEA68E9EF5BF12A4C3@OwnerPC> <322A71E5597F423BB775F1FC3F4087A8@OWNERPC> Message-ID: <87B4509DBD1643F8BA1D90967A6D8870@OwnerPC> Dave, I'd like to chat about what happened to you at LCB. my email is bookwormahb at earthlink.net. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother Ok cool. what's your email? ----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:13 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother Dave, it was Desiree who wanted to talk off list. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:52 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother yea that's cool? who wanted to contact me off list? ariel? right? I think that's who it was. yea you can contact me off list. I think my email address is there because I replied to posts so I think its there. Feel free. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother I don't want to pass judgment, since I don't know you or the circumstances that lead up to your leaving, but one thing that I see as glaringly obvious is that a lot, and I do mean A LOT, can change in 14 years. For anyone to hold a grudge against someone for that long is unacceptable. I don't want to say anything else, as I'm only going on hearsay here, and although I could let my anger at what you've said carry me a lot further, I won't since this is a public list and I don't know all the facts. Dave, if you would like to contact me off list to discuss this further, maybe that would be a better course of action at this point. On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't > test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left > after > > 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes > but > > at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too > familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months > and > > just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with > depression > > at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre > trying > > to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about > going > > back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me > because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if > she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say > well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much > denounced > > us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know > you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when > Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's > pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat > out > > N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the > first > > time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I > even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and he > pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're > not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to > try. > > In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but > didn't > > quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't > believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I > do > > so. Who knows? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelatedtooneanother > > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. > Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it > with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or > infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to > one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue May 21 22:29:40 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 15:29:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother In-Reply-To: <87B4509DBD1643F8BA1D90967A6D8870@OwnerPC> References: <519a9396.ce69e00a.0d68.09d1@mx.google.com><3C66E22C5F9147ADA70CBD3F41F309B4@OWNERPC><48252FCA07D049EEA68E9EF5BF12A4C3@OwnerPC><322A71E5597F423BB775F1FC3F4087A8@OWNERPC> <87B4509DBD1643F8BA1D90967A6D8870@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ok yea that's cool. We can talk off list. You can even call me if you want a well. -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 3:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother Dave, I'd like to chat about what happened to you at LCB. my email is bookwormahb at earthlink.net. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother Ok cool. what's your email? ----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:13 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother Dave, it was Desiree who wanted to talk off list. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:52 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother yea that's cool? who wanted to contact me off list? ariel? right? I think that's who it was. yea you can contact me off list. I think my email address is there because I replied to posts so I think its there. Feel free. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelatedtooneanother I don't want to pass judgment, since I don't know you or the circumstances that lead up to your leaving, but one thing that I see as glaringly obvious is that a lot, and I do mean A LOT, can change in 14 years. For anyone to hold a grudge against someone for that long is unacceptable. I don't want to say anything else, as I'm only going on hearsay here, and although I could let my anger at what you've said carry me a lot further, I won't since this is a public list and I don't know all the facts. Dave, if you would like to contact me off list to discuss this further, maybe that would be a better course of action at this point. On 5/20/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Hi. Its Dave. I went to lcb in 97 and if I remember correctly I didn't > test out of braille or any class for that matter. I just up and left > after > > 6 months because I couldn't take it anymore. I did ok with the classes > but > > at that time I didn't realize that these were nfb centers and wasn't too > familiar with the nfb philosophy and did what I could for about 6 months > and > > just said I can't take this anymore. I was having problems with > depression > > at that time too and wasn't on any meds so. I now know what they wre > trying > > to do and I know the nfb philosophy now and if I could may think about > going > > back to lcb but I haven't talked to Pam yet and I know she remembers me > because I was on that conference call that we did and when I asked her if > she remembered me she said she did. I have a feeling she'd probably say > well you fought against us once when you were here and pretty much > denounced > > us once so. Now 15 20 years later you want to come back? How do I know > you're not gonna denounce us and fight against us again. this was when > Joanne was director and a few years later I tried to go back and that's > pretty much what Joanne told me. I mean she just said no. I mean flat > out > > N O. so. In fact when we had that call the other night that was the > first > > time I had talked to anyone from the center in probably 6 or 7 years. I > even tried to talk to Jd in 2006 in Dalas about me ever coming back and he > pretty much said well you may have a hard time convincing pam that you're > not gonna go and do the same thing so. but be my guest if you want to > try. > > In their eyes I've always been the one who had a lot of potential but > didn't > > quite make it. wen I got there I didn't believe in the nfb and didn't > believe any of it was true for that whole 6 months I was there but now I > do > > so. Who knows? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelatedtooneanother > > Are the centers open all year round, or do they have start and > end times like school? If possible, I'd like to go to LCB > directly after graduating high school and train during the > summer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > tooneanother > > Yes you can test out of a class. It depends on the center exactly > how > you arrange that, but they do try to address students' individual > needs. In my case, I tested out of Braille at LCB after I had > been in > Braille class for a month and had proven to Mr. Whittle that I > didn't > need extra Braille reading practice. Also, part of the reason the > teachers supported my decision to test out was because I really > needed > more time for home management/cooking class. I had that class > first > thing in the morning and was chronically running late from that > class > which messed up the rest of the morning's schedule. So I asked to > replace the Braille with an extra hour of cooking and they > agreed. I > still went to Braille class once a week because I wanted to > practice > slating, but if you are good at that too, you may be able to test > out > completely. Now that I can successfully cook for myself and my > fiancee > in a timely fashion, I am very grateful that they were flexible > enough > to allow me the extra training in that area. Another way to test > out > of other classes, like cooking and shop, is to finish the > required > projects quickly. I know some students who have come with > excellent > cooking skills or woodworking experience have been able to finish > those classes in just a few months and be able to spend the rest > of > their training on the other classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Sorry, I just noticed the typo. I meant to say infrared. > Basically > all you do is when you set up the printer connection it should > be in > the list, and then you line up the little infrared scanner on > the > BrailleNote, (should be on the far right side of the back of the > unit, > assuming that you have it with the keyboard side facing up,) > with the > infrared scanner on the printer. On the printers I've used it > with > the scanner was on the front of the printer on the right side as > well > so if your printer has it it should be pretty easy to find. > Then the > printer and BrailleNote can talk via the scanners verses through > the > wires and cables and you just follow all the regular printing > commands > from there. > Hope this helps. I don't know why bluetooth didn't occur to me, > but > that might be an option worth exploring too. Either that or > infrared > will probably be your best options for printing wirelessly. > > On 5/20/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Kaiti, thanks for the reply. What is inferred printing? I've > never heard of it but it sounds super interesting. Could you > explain that to me please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaiti Shelton To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:22:09 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely > unrelated > to oneanother > > Hi Sophie, > > As far as I am aware the BrailleNote cannot connect to a > wireless > printer, but it can go off of inferred which is really nice. I > used > it for a few years and although I still needed to be right by > the > printer cutting out the cords saved me a lot of hassle. Hope > that > answers your question. > > Absolutely. I know a number of people who have tested out of > Braille > courses at the centers. My understanding from being on calls > with Pam > Allen recently is that the centers try to meet the individual > trainee > where they are in each of the class areas and build on those > skills. > So, if you're braille is great they won't make you do a bunch of > unnecessary training and will instead spend that time on > building > up > other skills. > > HTH! > > On 5/20/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Sophie, > I don't believe that you can test out of a class at a NFB > training > center however, I'm not sure about that. I would recommend that > you talk > to the director of which ever training center that you are > planning on > attending either Julie Deden at CCB or Pam Alan at LCB. I > attended CCB > so If I'm missing something would some one please correct me? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:25 AM > To: nabs > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions that are completely unrelated > to > one > another > > dear List, > > As my subject implies, I have 2 questions that are not related, > but I thought I'd put them in the same thread. I'm 99% sure I > know the answer to this first question, but I thought I'd check > anyway. Can the braillenote connect to a wireless printer? I > don't think so, but it would make my life a lot more convenient > if it could and I want to verify. My second question concerns > NFB > training centers. I'll be going to one in a couple of years, > and > I know that the standard classes are braille, home ec, O&M, > technology, and shop. I've had braille education since I was 3 > and can fluently read grades 1 and 2 as well as nemeth. I was > wondering if you can test out of a class at an NFB training > center. Any answer will be appreciated. > > Best, > Sophie Trist > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Tue May 21 23:24:28 2013 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:24:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> <3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <9EBA6ABA-BCD7-48EF-B1C8-4280C7693383@aol.com> Hi, I agree with Melissa that Arielle really captured this point. Well said! Bridget Sent from my iPad On May 21, 2013, at 5:54 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > very well said. > I would add its really good to have someone fighting with, and for you. > not against you. > Hope that joshua can find someone to fight with and for him. > > Blessings, > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > Find me on: > Twitter melissa5674 > facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 7:38 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > > President Maurer talked about the Arizona case on last year's > presidential report. The student's name is Sebastian Ibanez and I > believe it was some kind of counseling psychology class, so I'm not > sure what the issues were. Sebastian is an old friend of mine but > we've lost contact, so I don't know more than that. > I don't think it's discriminatory for a professor to share concerns > with a blind student about accommodation problems. It is > discriminatory for a professor to refuse to communicate with a student > about accommodations or to forcibly drop a student from the class > roster. At this point it sounds like Joshua is still signed up for the > class, and can still attend even if the professor doesn't want him > there. However, if the professor is unwilling to arrange necessary > accommodations, or pressures Joshua into dropping the class, I believe > that is still discriminatory behavior. > Several years ago Stacy Cervenka, an old NABS member, talked about her > experience taking a horseback riding class. She had a professor who > bullied her, made rude comments to her in front of classmates, and > strongly pressured her to drop. Stacy was very lucky that her DSS > office is headed by a Federationist, who took prompt action to protect > Stacy's right to remain in the class without harassment. > So yes, discrimination in the college classroom is alive and well. We > should all appreciate our professors who do abide by the law, and > especially those who go out of their way to help us get the most out > of their classes. And to the few who still give us trouble, we just > have to keep standing up for ourselves. > > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Arielle, >> that is terrible. Which sort of class was this? >> If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good >> case. >> Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. >> I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an >> elective. >> >> As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and >> did >> >> not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes orally; >> that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the >> experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not >> be >> >> able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific >> pages >> >> and passages to discuss points. >> My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and I >> called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and see >> if >> >> we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when my >> dss counselor called me to say Prof C came to her and she wanted to >> discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. >> I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt that >> at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an >> appropriate >> >> class for me. >> >> Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that >> two >> >> professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was a >> major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor >> said >> >> that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take >> it >> >> with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual >> online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x because >> it did not fit my schedule. >> For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, >> and >> >> I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their >> concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be >> accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me following >> her class with videos. >> Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up >> front >> >> with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even though >> I >> >> did not request it. >> It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She never >> said not to take it though. She was very curteous in her responses to me. >> Now, that lit professor was not! >> >> Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is >> resolved. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped >> from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is >> working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not >> want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the >> national center and just find out what's happening with that case and >> what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class >> without your consent. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/19/13, justin wrote: >>> I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one >>> right afterwards. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. >>> Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go >>> ahead >>> and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or >>> dean >>> for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While >>> it's >>> up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth >>> thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating >>> against >>> other students in the future. >>> There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, >>> distinguish >>> the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We >>> can >>> help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the >>> professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many >>> blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and >>> support >>> from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the >>> accommodations for you. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >>>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>>> want to take it then go for it! >>>> Zunaira >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>> Shelton >>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>>> science class for next semester >>>> >>>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >>>> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >>>> need to take then your disability services people need to help >>>> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >>>> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >>>> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as >>> well. >>>> >>>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >>>> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >>>> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >>>> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >>>> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >>>> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >>>> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >>>> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >>>> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >>>> you can also borrow for free. >>>> >>>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>>> accommodations. >>>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>>>> color >>>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>>>> to >>>> >>>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>>>> However, >>>> >>>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>>>> tactile >>>> >>>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>>> surely so can rock geology. >>>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>>>> a >>>> >>>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>>> NFB state president. >>>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>>>> select >>>> >>>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >>>> >>>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>>>> three >>>> >>>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>>> -Jewel >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>>>> counselor >>>> >>>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>>>> department >>>> >>>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>>> rocks apart. >>>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>>>> want >>>> >>>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>>>> see >>>> >>>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>>> reading this message. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>>>> g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>>> % >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>>> fldoe.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>> com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed May 22 02:11:57 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 21:11:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Home-on-the-range] Oklahoma Tornado Message-ID: > >Dear Fellow federationists, > >I have heard from Jeannie Massey President of Oklahoma NFB. All >members are now accounted for and safe. There is a great deal of >distruction and suffering right now in Oklahoma and they can most >definitely use our thoughts and prayers. > >Donna From chelseap08 at gmail.com Wed May 22 03:51:30 2013 From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 22:51:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Roommates needed for National convention Message-ID: <9D15525F-660F-45FF-B7DF-2F18119FE40B@gmail.com> Good evening all! I hope you all are doing well! a roommate and I are looking for 2 more people to share a room with at convention. If you are interested, please every-mail me off list at chelpseap08 at gmail.com. Thanks, Chelsea Sent from my iPhone From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed May 22 18:04:13 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 14:04:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester In-Reply-To: <27F7C2C3FF0841E5BE59DBEC934E408B@OwnerPC> References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF2081DE43C@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <002301ce54ee$b614a900$223dfb00$@gmail.com> <3D4C2BCE4E7D452A9E5F846570CC2C2B@OwnerPC> <27F7C2C3FF0841E5BE59DBEC934E408B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Joshua and all, I wanted to bring up another point somewhat related to what Dan and others have said. I think sometimes since we primarily hear about discrimination pertaining to blind or otherwise disabled people that we can forget the scope of the issue. It seems important to me that we gain wider perspective on these issues to better help us sort them out ourselves, because in some ways we do have an advantage in that respect. In the first semester of last year I had a horrible philosophy professor, and as far as public humiliation and discriminatory comments in class go my situation was similar to Stacy's. What was shocking to me was that his comments were not limitted to me and my blindness, he also openly made discriminatory remarks to international students who used English dictionaries in class, a girl who clearly was just not getting the subject and struggling to understand the concepts and reasonably didn't feel comfortable participating in discussion, and a student who was Islamic. As far as I know no other students filed any reports on him with the exception of giving him very crappy evaluations at the end of the semester, but his demeanor, (at least with me), changed a lot after I told the chair of the department who told the dean what was going on. They seemed particularly shocked that he was doing it with me, as from their talks with me I seemed like I didn't do anything to bring this on, but neither did the other students. I bring this up because like others have said, some professors are just jerks who don't always know how to be polite or reasonable with students in general, not just blind ones. I was apalled when my professor would make condescending remarks like, "Do you understand," to the Chinese and Pollish students in my class (it was his tone more than what he said) because it was like he was calling them stupid for trying to take a class in a new country in a second language. This sort of thing can happen to any student who has a professor who finds something to pick at; the positive thing about our case is that we can change it. Deans will take a student who says their professor is discriminating on the basis of their disability seriously because an ADA lawsuit is one of the last things they want to happen. A professor could always lie and say that language barriers or differences in culture caused a student of a different country or religion to take offense when it wasn't intended to save his own skin, but it's pretty diffficult for him to weasle his way out of a claim made by a student with a physical disability who is perfectly capable of knowing what he said. This is where we have the advantage; the department chair understood that I certainly wasn't stupid and totally understood what my professor was saying and how he was saying it, so unlike my foreign and Islamic classmates it would have been pretty hard for the prof to make up an excuse for his comments towards me. I think Melissa and others mentioned the importance of bringing backup and proof with you. In my case I had a friend in the class who was as floored about the comments as I was and agreed that the professor needed to be stopped. She was not international, was catholic like most of the students at the university, and was not disabled so she backed me up as a witness who didn't experience the discrimination herself. I think it was great bringing her along because it made it clear that it wasn't just the blind student crying wolf. In our case the professor was also using some questionable grading practices, so we brought along copies of our tests which showed he had given different gradings on the same test questions with the same answers and that the results weren't lining up. When you meet with the dean be polite, articulate, and let him know that you know this isn't okay and that it needs to be resolved. Bring along any proof you can find; document the dates you have tried to get into contact with the professor and any dates he's returned calls or made contact with you. If you did get to speak to him what did he say to you? If not, did you leave a message and was the message ever returned? For backup see if your disability service office can vouch that they've tried to make contact with little results as well. That in itself should be hook, line, and sinker for showing that he's really doing all he can to discriminate and keep you from getting what you need. This professor has no right to do these things and needs to be stopped. He has no right to pick and choose his students or refuse entry into his class, and he needs to treat all students with the same amount of dignity and respect. Part of his job, whether he likes it or not, involves working with other faculty in different departments including disability services as needed, so he really needs to open up the lines of communication with them and you in order to get you what you need for the course. I think all the other advice given on this thread has been golden. Do what you have to do to get into the class you need. As frustrating and silly as this all might be, try to bear in mind that this is a much bigger issue that we're lucky to have a hand in changing. It might seem like an odd concept at the time, but it really helped me stay positive when I was trying to work through my philosophy issues. Also keep in mind that this could potentially open the door for a future blind student to take this class, and you could potentially change this professor by teaching him that blind people are capable and competent students who can be successful even in visual subjects if given an equal chance at success. Good luck. On 5/20/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Arielle, > Thanks. Oh, it was in the president's report. I'll check it out! > I agree completely. It is fine for professors to share concerns with > students about accomodations or any other matter. > But it is discrimination to refuse communication or to fail to make > accomodations. > Joshua can certainly attend the class without his professor's cooperation or > > knowing he is not wanted there. > But it will be impossible to succeed without some accomodations. Many > students, including me, worked closely with professors for visual subjects. > > I utilized office hours a lot. I did something else in lou of the lab > credit, but I took the lecture part of biology. The professor and I did a > lot of extra work together so she could go slower and describe the > processes; not only was it a hard subject for me, but it relied on pictures. > > Having her on a one to one basis let me ask any questions I needed as well > as let me hear the information I needed in a way I could understand; in > class she used diagrams and other pictures. > > Anyway, this is a case of discrimination and sadly I see no easy solution. > Yes, I remember very well the speech Stacy delivered; I was there. I commend > > her efforts to stay in the class. I could not have done it. I would have > cried if the professor bullied me and dropped the class. > > Discrimination is alive and its sad to see this. We want to get ahead like > everyone else and just need equal opportunities. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college > science class for next semester > > President Maurer talked about the Arizona case on last year's > presidential report. The student's name is Sebastian Ibanez and I > believe it was some kind of counseling psychology class, so I'm not > sure what the issues were. Sebastian is an old friend of mine but > we've lost contact, so I don't know more than that. > I don't think it's discriminatory for a professor to share concerns > with a blind student about accommodation problems. It is > discriminatory for a professor to refuse to communicate with a student > about accommodations or to forcibly drop a student from the class > roster. At this point it sounds like Joshua is still signed up for the > class, and can still attend even if the professor doesn't want him > there. However, if the professor is unwilling to arrange necessary > accommodations, or pressures Joshua into dropping the class, I believe > that is still discriminatory behavior. > Several years ago Stacy Cervenka, an old NABS member, talked about her > experience taking a horseback riding class. She had a professor who > bullied her, made rude comments to her in front of classmates, and > strongly pressured her to drop. Stacy was very lucky that her DSS > office is headed by a Federationist, who took prompt action to protect > Stacy's right to remain in the class without harassment. > So yes, discrimination in the college classroom is alive and well. We > should all appreciate our professors who do abide by the law, and > especially those who go out of their way to help us get the most out > of their classes. And to the few who still give us trouble, we just > have to keep standing up for ourselves. > > Arielle > > On 5/20/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Arielle, >> that is terrible. Which sort of class was this? >> If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good >> case. >> Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination. >> I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an >> elective. >> >> As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and >> did >> >> not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes orally; >> that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the >> experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not >> be >> >> able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific >> pages >> >> and passages to discuss points. >> My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and I >> called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and see >> >> if >> >> we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when my >> dss counselor called me to say Prof C came to her and she wanted to >> discuss concerns and accomodations for the class. >> I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt >> that >> at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an >> appropriate >> >> class for me. >> >> Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that >> two >> >> professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was >> a >> major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor >> said >> >> that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take >> it >> >> with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual >> online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x >> because >> it did not fit my schedule. >> For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, >> and >> >> I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their >> concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be >> accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me following >> her class with videos. >> Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up >> front >> >> with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even though >> >> I >> >> did not request it. >> It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She never >> said not to take it though. She was very curteous in her responses to >> me. >> Now, that lit professor was not! >> >> Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is >> resolved. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >> science class for next semester >> >> Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped >> from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is >> working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not >> want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the >> national center and just find out what's happening with that case and >> what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class >> without your consent. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/19/13, justin wrote: >>> I have taken two geography courses before. An intro class, and the one >>> right afterwards. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>> science class for next semester >>> >>> This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable. >>> Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go >>> ahead >>> and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or >>> dean >>> for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While >>> it's >>> up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth >>> thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating >>> against >>> other students in the future. >>> There are many ways you can gain access to the course material, >>> distinguish >>> the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We >>> can >>> help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the >>> professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that >>> many >>> blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and >>> support >>> from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the >>> accommodations for you. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >>>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight? >>>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or >>>> something else you enjoy. Perhaps you can discuss other options with >>>> your Dean. Are you interested in this geology class? If you really >>>> want to take it then go for it! >>>> Zunaira >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>> Shelton >>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college >>>> science class for next semester >>>> >>>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated. This professor has no >>>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick >>>> and choose his sighted students, right?) If this is the class you >>>> need to take then your disability services people need to help >>>> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy. And, if >>>> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about >>>> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as >>> well. >>>> >>>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need >>>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare, >>>> your DS office, or somewhere else. A few other places you might want >>>> to check are APH and the library of congress. I have never taken a >>>> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of >>>> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you >>>> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on >>>> otther aspects of your textbooks. A lot of APH's books are also >>>> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done >>>> with the class. NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which >>>> you can also borrow for free. >>>> >>>> On 5/20/13, Jewel wrote: >>>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you >>>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable >>>> accommodations. >>>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant >>>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what >>>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to >>>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and >>>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what >>>>> color >>>> is it or does it have any marbling. >>>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want >>>>> to >>>> >>>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just >>>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first >>>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work. >>>>> However, >>>> >>>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the >>>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a >>>>> tactile >>>> >>>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I >>>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible, >>>> surely so can rock geology. >>>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't >>>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight >>>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students, >>>>> a >>>> >>>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your >>>> NFB state president. >>>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is >>>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the >>>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go >>>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit. >>>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books >>>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books >>>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page, >>>>> select >>>> >>>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu. >>>> >>>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its >>>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to >>>>> three >>>> >>>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have >>>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the >>>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of >>>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining >>>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you >>>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a >>>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each >>>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they >>>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes >>>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as >>>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a >>>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office >>>> does this before you purchase the books. >>>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck! >>>>> -Jewel >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello to all. I'm glad to be a part of this list. I am very close >>>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree. The only class I need to >>>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab. I met with a >>>>>> counselor >>>> >>>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all >>>>>> about rocks and things like that. The Dean of The science >>>>>> department >>>> >>>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem. The >>>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class. This is >>>>>> extremely frustrating. I had went to my disability support office, >>>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet >>>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the >>>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. >>>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different >>>> rocks apart. >>>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in >>>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class. Lynn >>>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science >>>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class >>>>>> called geology of the solar system. Lynn told me she thought I >>>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was >>>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class. I don't really >>>>>> want >>>> >>>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will >>>>>> be with jaws. I was sent an email with a link to a page that was >>>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it >>>>>> was very confusing. Since there isn't much there as far as >>>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure >>>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read. I'm going >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to >>>>>> see >>>> >>>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for >>>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't >>>>>> even want me in his class. Also, I don't even have any accessible >>>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern. Thanks for >>>>>> reading this message. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 >>>>>> g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>>> % >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>>> fldoe.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From lucysirianni at earthlink.net Thu May 23 01:57:30 2013 From: lucysirianni at earthlink.net (Lucy Sirianni) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 18:57:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member Message-ID: Hi all, I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! Best, Lucy From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu May 23 00:53:58 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 17:53:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars Message-ID: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of all the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there are any accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or Facebook or somewhere else? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu May 23 02:06:54 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 19:06:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heya Lucy! Glad to have you on the list! Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Lucy Sirianni Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:57 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member Hi all, I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! Best, Lucy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Thu May 23 02:56:15 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 22:56:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is good to see you on here, welcome to the list. Sent from my iPhone On May 22, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Lucy Sirianni wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. > > I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! > > Best, > > Lucy > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu May 23 03:09:46 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 23:09:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars In-Reply-To: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi all, I am actually looking for a similar tool, something that would be web accessible, be able to show all events for a semester at a time, and somehow allow for people to sign up for these events. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of all > the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there are any > accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or Facebook or > somewhere else? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Thu May 23 03:09:17 2013 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 23:09:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8467470FDFFE4DFE958879A2882CFF32@userPC> Welcome to the list! Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 10:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member Heya Lucy! Glad to have you on the list! Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Lucy Sirianni Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:57 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member Hi all, I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! Best, Lucy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From chelseap08 at gmail.com Thu May 23 03:42:26 2013 From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 22:42:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Welcome to the list! :) Sent from my iPhone On May 22, 2013, at 9:56 PM, Josh Gregory wrote: > It is good to see you on here, welcome to the list. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 22, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Lucy Sirianni wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. >> >> I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! >> >> Best, >> >> Lucy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Thu May 23 05:48:56 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 01:48:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Lucy, this is Helga. Welcome to the list! as well! I just wanted to tell you that I'm actually doing an English major as well! in order to become a Lawyer. Hope to talk to you soon! God bless! :) -----Original Message----- From: Chelsea Page Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member Welcome to the list! :) Sent from my iPhone On May 22, 2013, at 9:56 PM, Josh Gregory wrote: > It is good to see you on here, welcome to the list. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 22, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Lucy Sirianni > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize >> my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me >> briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally >> blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up >> in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) >> siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in >> English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, >> preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the >> program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or >> of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. >> >> I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being >> part of the group! >> >> Best, >> >> Lucy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From annajee82 at gmail.com Thu May 23 05:58:12 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 01:58:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chelsea what is your email address? Are u still looking for a roomate for convention? I tried to email but i think was wrong address. Anna Sent from my iPhone On May 22, 2013, at 11:42 PM, Chelsea Page wrote: > Welcome to the list! :) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 22, 2013, at 9:56 PM, Josh Gregory wrote: > >> It is good to see you on here, welcome to the list. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 22, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Lucy Sirianni wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. >>> >>> I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Lucy >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com From chelseap08 at gmail.com Thu May 23 07:09:57 2013 From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 02:09:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9AC5269E-59A0-4D57-AC63-E8E74DBB8DDA@gmail.com> chelseap08 at gmail.com Look forward to hearing from you! :) Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 12:58 AM, Anna Givens wrote: > Chelsea what is your email address? Are u still looking for a roomate for convention? I tried to email but i think was wrong address. > > Anna > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 22, 2013, at 11:42 PM, Chelsea Page wrote: > >> Welcome to the list! :) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 22, 2013, at 9:56 PM, Josh Gregory wrote: >> >>> It is good to see you on here, welcome to the list. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 22, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Lucy Sirianni wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. >>>> >>>> I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Lucy >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com From leyeshprintse at ymail.com Thu May 23 11:01:45 2013 From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 13:01:45 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: BS"D Lucy, Welcome to this group! I'm also a language and literature student! :-) I hope that you'll enjoy the group, I've learnt a lot! Kind regards, Leye-Shprintse Envoyé de mon iPad 23 maj 2013 kl. 03:57 skrev Lucy Sirianni : Hi all, I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! Best, Lucy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse%40ymail.com From kathrynwebster at me.com Thu May 23 13:03:11 2013 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kate) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 09:03:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Mac book air or mac book pro? Message-ID: Good morning all! I was just wondering your thoughts regarding the Mac book pro 13-inch verses the 11-inch mac book air? I will be beginning my undergraduate study at Wake Forest University next year and want to have a mac for basic needs such as Facebook, E-mail, research, iTunes, etc. Wake Forest provides a PC to us for excel and other academic purposes. What are your thoughts? Thank you in advance. Kathryn Webster From louvins at gmail.com Thu May 23 14:05:16 2013 From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 09:05:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] hi to all the new members, and did you all see andrews message about signing the patition to help the WIPA treaty? Message-ID: On 5/23/13, Kate wrote: > Good morning all! I was just wondering your thoughts regarding the Mac book > pro 13-inch verses the 11-inch mac book air? I will be beginning my > undergraduate study at Wake Forest University next year and want to have a > mac for basic needs such as Facebook, E-mail, research, iTunes, etc. Wake > Forest provides a PC to us for excel and other academic purposes. What are > your thoughts? Thank you in advance. > Kathryn Webster > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com > -- Joshua T Hendrickson Hello to all on the list. I'm just wondering if you all saw the message Andrew posted about a request to sign the patition put out by NFB to support the WIPA treaty. I signed the patition and for those who haven't signed it yet, once you provide your name and email address, then submit the patition, you will receive an email a few minutes after asking you to verify that you gave the correct email address. I suspect this is done to provent spam. I sincerely hope the wipa treaty does pass, because then books will start to be allowed to be shared country to country and not limited to just the country you live in. I would love to be able to download books from canada's CNIB, and England's RNIB libraries. If anyone needs the link again, please replay to this message, and I'll send you all the link to the patition. Have a great day all. From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Wed May 22 14:37:21 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 10:37:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars In-Reply-To: References: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com> I don't know if anyone suggested this; I think they did, but is excel usable in this way? Also, maybe the calendar in outlook. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars Hi all, I am actually looking for a similar tool, something that would be web accessible, be able to show all events for a semester at a time, and somehow allow for people to sign up for these events. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of > all the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there > are any accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or > Facebook or somewhere else? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com _nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com> > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 14:43:59 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 10:43:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars In-Reply-To: <004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com> References: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2> <004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <-3133380024830217629@unknownmsgid> The calendar in Outlook would work, but they are looking for something web based. For this, I would try Google calendar or I calendar, if you have an iOS device or a Mac computer. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 10:34 AM, justin wrote: > I don't know if anyone suggested this; I think they did, but is excel usable > in this way? Also, maybe the calendar in outlook. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars > > Hi all, > > I am actually looking for a similar tool, something that would be web > accessible, be able to show all events for a semester at a time, and somehow > allow for people to sign up for these events. Any suggestions would be > greatly appreciated. > > On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > >> Hello, >> for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of >> all the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there >> are any accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or >> Facebook or somewhere else? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com> _nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com> > > > -- > Kaiti > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Thu May 23 14:50:30 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 10:50:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars In-Reply-To: <-3133380024830217629@unknownmsgid> References: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2> <004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com> <-3133380024830217629@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Not necessarily, Outlook does have a web-based interface. Which I do believe includes calendar. Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 10:43 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > The calendar in Outlook would work, but they are looking for something > web based. For this, I would try Google calendar or I calendar, if you > have an iOS device or a Mac computer. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 10:34 AM, justin wrote: > >> I don't know if anyone suggested this; I think they did, but is excel usable >> in this way? Also, maybe the calendar in outlook. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton >> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am actually looking for a similar tool, something that would be web >> accessible, be able to show all events for a semester at a time, and somehow >> allow for people to sign up for these events. Any suggestions would be >> greatly appreciated. >> >> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of >>> all the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there >>> are any accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or >>> Facebook or somewhere else? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>> rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com>> _nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From juanitaherrera1991 at gmail.com Thu May 23 15:02:49 2013 From: juanitaherrera1991 at gmail.com (Juanita Herrera) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 08:02:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Was I supposed to introduce myself? Message-ID: <2BC5D3EC-C175-4B18-8175-B5379572185A@gmail.com> Hello all, I have seen a few people introduce themselves as of late. I rarely ever post on here because I am shy to begin with and also because people don't know about me so I don't want to be just a random person posting. Anyways, my name is Juanita Herrera and I am a college student in California. I am currently working on my Associates degree in social and behavioral studies. I plan to someday be a marriage and family therapist. I also work at a nonprofit organization which trains blind individuals to be successful people in life. Additionally, I am the Secretary of the California Association of Blind Students. In comparison to many of you, I am quite new to the National Federation of the Blind. I have only been involved with this organization for about a year and a half. Thus far, I have been to one national convention and one state convention in California. I Also attended Washington seminar but was unable to attend any of the events put on by NABS. Anyways, sorry for the long post. I hope to get to meet a lot of you and become more acquainted with nabs. Juanita Herrera Sent from my iPhone From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu May 23 16:12:41 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 12:12:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Was I supposed to introduce myself? In-Reply-To: <2BC5D3EC-C175-4B18-8175-B5379572185A@gmail.com> References: <2BC5D3EC-C175-4B18-8175-B5379572185A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Juanita, Welcome to the list! On 5/23/13, Juanita Herrera wrote: > Hello all, > I have seen a few people introduce themselves as of late. I rarely ever post > on here because I am shy to begin with and also because people don't know > about me so I don't want to be just a random person posting. Anyways, my > name is Juanita Herrera and I am a college student in California. I am > currently working on my Associates degree in social and behavioral studies. > I plan to someday be a marriage and family therapist. I also work at a > nonprofit organization which trains blind individuals to be successful > people in life. Additionally, I am the Secretary of the California > Association of Blind Students. In comparison to many of you, I am quite new > to the National Federation of the Blind. I have only been involved with this > organization for about a year and a half. Thus far, I have been to one > national convention and one state convention in California. I Also attended > Washington seminar but was unable to attend any of the events put on by > NABS. Anyways, sorry for the long post. I hope to get to meet a lot of you > and become more acquainted with nabs. > Juanita Herrera > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From joshkart12 at gmail.com Thu May 23 16:33:56 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 12:33:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Was I supposed to introduce myself? In-Reply-To: <2BC5D3EC-C175-4B18-8175-B5379572185A@gmail.com> References: <2BC5D3EC-C175-4B18-8175-B5379572185A@gmail.com> Message-ID: It is certainly good to meet you, :-) I'm Josh Gregory, I'm a college student here in Maryland. I am a political Science major. While I'm not currently exactly a member of the Federation itself, I do strongly believe in its views and its mission. Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Juanita Herrera wrote: > Hello all, > I have seen a few people introduce themselves as of late. I rarely ever post on here because I am shy to begin with and also because people don't know about me so I don't want to be just a random person posting. Anyways, my name is Juanita Herrera and I am a college student in California. I am currently working on my Associates degree in social and behavioral studies. I plan to someday be a marriage and family therapist. I also work at a nonprofit organization which trains blind individuals to be successful people in life. Additionally, I am the Secretary of the California Association of Blind Students. In comparison to many of you, I am quite new to the National Federation of the Blind. I have only been involved with this organization for about a year and a half. Thus far, I have been to one national convention and one state convention in California. I Also attended Washington seminar but was unable to attend any of the events put on by NABS. Anyways, sorry for the long post. I hope to get to meet a lot of you and become more acquainted with nabs. > Juanita Herrera > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Thu May 23 16:37:08 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 16:37:08 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Was I supposed to introduce myself? In-Reply-To: <2BC5D3EC-C175-4B18-8175-B5379572185A@gmail.com> References: <2BC5D3EC-C175-4B18-8175-B5379572185A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Juanita! Welcome to the list! We're going into a similar line of work! Behavioral Health Technology is my major! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Juanita Herrera [juanitaherrera1991 at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:02 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Was I supposed to introduce myself? Hello all, I have seen a few people introduce themselves as of late. I rarely ever post on here because I am shy to begin with and also because people don't know about me so I don't want to be just a random person posting. Anyways, my name is Juanita Herrera and I am a college student in California. I am currently working on my Associates degree in social and behavioral studies. I plan to someday be a marriage and family therapist. I also work at a nonprofit organization which trains blind individuals to be successful people in life. Additionally, I am the Secretary of the California Association of Blind Students. In comparison to many of you, I am quite new to the National Federation of the Blind. I have only been involved with this organization for about a year and a half. Thus far, I have been to one national convention and one state convention in California. I Also attended Washington seminar but was unable to attend any of the events put on by NABS. Anyways, sorry for the long post. I hope to get to meet a lot of you and become more acquainted with nabs. Juanita Herrera Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu May 23 14:54:36 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 10:54:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars In-Reply-To: <-3133380024830217629@unknownmsgid> References: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2> <004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com> <-3133380024830217629@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi, I didn't think to try the Outlook calendar; that might work at least for some of it. Someone else suggested making an excel sheet and uploading it to dropbox too, then emailing links out to everyone though. The one hesitation I had about using that was concerning collaborations; I'm not sure if I upload it and someone else makes a change, signs up for the events they want to work or something, then will the next person see those changes or will it just be the original document I created? Any thoughts? If the dropbox thing would work out and I could use that as my cloud that would solve everything and make life much easier, but I also started looking into the accessibility of spreadsheets in Google Docs last night, but it looks like Google's built in their own screenreader support with their own hotkeys so that might be tricky to work with. I'm planning on trying that out over the weekend with JAWS and NVDA since something I read actually made it sound like NVDA might be the easier screenreader to use. Brandon, if you would like the information including the hotkey list that I've found thus far for Google Docs Spreadsheets I would be happy to send it to you off list. Worst case scenario, I figure I could just send out a mass email telling people to bring their calendars to our meeting, then have the spreadsheet up and ready to go for people to sign up for events before and after the meeting. Then I can send out the spreadsheet in another email for people to download from dropbox so they would all have a copy. Again though if we could do everything using Dropbox as our cloud that would be fantastic. On 5/23/13, christopher nusbaum wrote: > The calendar in Outlook would work, but they are looking for something > web based. For this, I would try Google calendar or I calendar, if you > have an iOS device or a Mac computer. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 10:34 AM, justin wrote: > >> I don't know if anyone suggested this; I think they did, but is excel >> usable >> in this way? Also, maybe the calendar in outlook. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am actually looking for a similar tool, something that would be web >> accessible, be able to show all events for a semester at a time, and >> somehow >> allow for people to sign up for these events. Any suggestions would be >> greatly appreciated. >> >> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of >>> all the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there >>> are any accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or >>> Facebook or somewhere else? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>> rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com>> _nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu May 23 16:59:33 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 09:59:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars In-Reply-To: <004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com> References: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2> <004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, Excel may work, does it have a way where you can post an interactive copy online? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: justin Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:37 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars I don't know if anyone suggested this; I think they did, but is excel usable in this way? Also, maybe the calendar in outlook. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars Hi all, I am actually looking for a similar tool, something that would be web accessible, be able to show all events for a semester at a time, and somehow allow for people to sign up for these events. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of > all the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there > are any accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or > Facebook or somewhere else? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com _nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com> > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu May 23 17:06:08 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 10:06:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars In-Reply-To: References: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2><004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com><-3133380024830217629@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <9D9001C4D4CB4CF4BBB4D5901BD70790@BrandonsLaptop2> Can you please send me the Google calendar commands? I use NVDA 50% of the time so I'm pretty familiar with it. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Kaiti Shelton Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 7:54 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars Hi, I didn't think to try the Outlook calendar; that might work at least for some of it. Someone else suggested making an excel sheet and uploading it to dropbox too, then emailing links out to everyone though. The one hesitation I had about using that was concerning collaborations; I'm not sure if I upload it and someone else makes a change, signs up for the events they want to work or something, then will the next person see those changes or will it just be the original document I created? Any thoughts? If the dropbox thing would work out and I could use that as my cloud that would solve everything and make life much easier, but I also started looking into the accessibility of spreadsheets in Google Docs last night, but it looks like Google's built in their own screenreader support with their own hotkeys so that might be tricky to work with. I'm planning on trying that out over the weekend with JAWS and NVDA since something I read actually made it sound like NVDA might be the easier screenreader to use. Brandon, if you would like the information including the hotkey list that I've found thus far for Google Docs Spreadsheets I would be happy to send it to you off list. Worst case scenario, I figure I could just send out a mass email telling people to bring their calendars to our meeting, then have the spreadsheet up and ready to go for people to sign up for events before and after the meeting. Then I can send out the spreadsheet in another email for people to download from dropbox so they would all have a copy. Again though if we could do everything using Dropbox as our cloud that would be fantastic. On 5/23/13, christopher nusbaum wrote: > The calendar in Outlook would work, but they are looking for something > web based. For this, I would try Google calendar or I calendar, if you > have an iOS device or a Mac computer. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 10:34 AM, justin wrote: > >> I don't know if anyone suggested this; I think they did, but is excel >> usable >> in this way? Also, maybe the calendar in outlook. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am actually looking for a similar tool, something that would be web >> accessible, be able to show all events for a semester at a time, and >> somehow >> allow for people to sign up for these events. Any suggestions would be >> greatly appreciated. >> >> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of >>> all the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there >>> are any accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or >>> Facebook or somewhere else? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>> rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com>> _nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From lucysirianni at earthlink.net Thu May 23 17:32:47 2013 From: lucysirianni at earthlink.net (Lucy Sirianni) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 10:32:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member Message-ID: Thanks for the welcome, everyone; I'm glad to be here! And Helga and Leye-Shprintse, it's always nice to meet other literature majors. Feel free to email me off-list if you'd ever like to be in touch with someone in the field.... Lucy ----- Original Message ----- From: Leye-Shprintse : Hi all, I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! Best, Lucy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse %40ymail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lucysirianni% 40earthlink.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu May 23 18:23:51 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 11:23:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars In-Reply-To: <9D9001C4D4CB4CF4BBB4D5901BD70790@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2><004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com><-3133380024830217629@unknownmsgid> <9D9001C4D4CB4CF4BBB4D5901BD70790@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <0BE7F1F061B142C18C449466AED256D8@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I have created a sample dropbox calendar. People please open this link and fill your name in the event you would like to go to. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14968661/Sample%20list%20of%20events.xls Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:06 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars Can you please send me the Google calendar commands? I use NVDA 50% of the time so I'm pretty familiar with it. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Kaiti Shelton Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 7:54 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars Hi, I didn't think to try the Outlook calendar; that might work at least for some of it. Someone else suggested making an excel sheet and uploading it to dropbox too, then emailing links out to everyone though. The one hesitation I had about using that was concerning collaborations; I'm not sure if I upload it and someone else makes a change, signs up for the events they want to work or something, then will the next person see those changes or will it just be the original document I created? Any thoughts? If the dropbox thing would work out and I could use that as my cloud that would solve everything and make life much easier, but I also started looking into the accessibility of spreadsheets in Google Docs last night, but it looks like Google's built in their own screenreader support with their own hotkeys so that might be tricky to work with. I'm planning on trying that out over the weekend with JAWS and NVDA since something I read actually made it sound like NVDA might be the easier screenreader to use. Brandon, if you would like the information including the hotkey list that I've found thus far for Google Docs Spreadsheets I would be happy to send it to you off list. Worst case scenario, I figure I could just send out a mass email telling people to bring their calendars to our meeting, then have the spreadsheet up and ready to go for people to sign up for events before and after the meeting. Then I can send out the spreadsheet in another email for people to download from dropbox so they would all have a copy. Again though if we could do everything using Dropbox as our cloud that would be fantastic. On 5/23/13, christopher nusbaum wrote: > The calendar in Outlook would work, but they are looking for something > web based. For this, I would try Google calendar or I calendar, if you > have an iOS device or a Mac computer. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 10:34 AM, justin wrote: > >> I don't know if anyone suggested this; I think they did, but is excel >> usable >> in this way? Also, maybe the calendar in outlook. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am actually looking for a similar tool, something that would be web >> accessible, be able to show all events for a semester at a time, and >> somehow >> allow for people to sign up for these events. Any suggestions would be >> greatly appreciated. >> >> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of >>> all the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there >>> are any accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or >>> Facebook or somewhere else? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>> rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com>> _nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Thu May 23 20:31:29 2013 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 16:31:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Message-ID: Hi all, For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other google app. Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! Just FYI. Aleeha From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com Thu May 23 20:37:06 2013 From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (ryan bishop) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 13:37:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi all, For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other google app. Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! Just FYI. Aleeha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co m From joshkart12 at gmail.com Thu May 23 20:43:48 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 16:43:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh my… And to think I was seriously considering switching to android? Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hi all, > For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any > Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. > This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any > other google app. > Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google > products at our colleges and universities!!!!! > Just FYI. > Aleeha > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com Thu May 23 20:42:54 2013 From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (ryan bishop) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 13:42:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] wiki for summer reading, if anyone is interested. Message-ID: <000801ce57f6$1b591f80$520b5e80$@gmail.com> Hello Everyone! I know summer is upon us and school is almost out, but that doesn't mean reading has to end! Starting today May 23, 2013 a teacher at my school, and I will be starting a wiki, to connect all sorts of blind students all over the world, who are braille readers in a large conversation. Topics can cover anything about books, authors, and your summer, what you are doing, etc. There will also be contests, prizes, and fun conversations for all. If anyone is interested, please send me an email off list, at Ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com And I will send you an invite to the wiki. Thanks everyone! And enjoy reading, and enjoy your summers! Ryan From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Thu May 23 20:44:46 2013 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina Cruz) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 16:44:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please post a link about these possible changes? Thanks On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: > Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Hi all, > For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any > Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. > This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other > google app. > Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google > products at our colleges and universities!!!!! > Just FYI. > Aleeha > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > -- Anjelina From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Thu May 23 20:55:01 2013 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina Cruz) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 16:55:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A possible helpful link for those traveling to convention this summer Message-ID: Hello fellow Nabsters, I came across this link on Twitter and thought I'd share it here. It's full of practical tips. Definitely a link worth bookmarking. Tips and Tricks from a Blind Business Traveler: How to Manage the Airport More Effectively: http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw131106&utm_content=buffer57861&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer -- Anjelina From treyman19 at gmail.com Thu May 23 21:06:52 2013 From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 17:06:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I Am Looking For A Roomate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/23/13, Trey Bradley wrote: > Hi there I was wondering if you fount a room mate yet? I have a room. > Just let me know please give me a call here is my phone number. > 219-789-7073 > > On 5/20/13, James P. Dickman wrote: >> Hello everyone, my name is James Dickman and I am looking for a roommate >> for >> the national convention is there anyone out there that is also looking for >> a >> roommate? Also I just joined the nabs mailing list, if someone can >> please >> reply to me, so I know that my message has been sent I would really >> appreciate it. >> >> Thank you >> James Dickman >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/treyman19%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Roosevelt Bradley > -- Roosevelt Bradley From treyman19 at gmail.com Thu May 23 21:05:28 2013 From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 17:05:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I Am Looking For A Roomate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi there I was wondering if you fount a room mate yet? I have a room. Just let me know please give me a call here is my phone number. 219-789-7073 On 5/20/13, James P. Dickman wrote: > Hello everyone, my name is James Dickman and I am looking for a roommate for > the national convention is there anyone out there that is also looking for a > roommate? Also I just joined the nabs mailing list, if someone can please > reply to me, so I know that my message has been sent I would really > appreciate it. > > Thank you > James Dickman > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/treyman19%40gmail.com > -- Roosevelt Bradley From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Thu May 23 21:22:37 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 17:22:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions newer than 8 would be ok. On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: > I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please > post a link about these possible changes? > Thanks > > On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >> Dudley >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >> >> Hi all, >> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other >> google app. >> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >> Just FYI. >> Aleeha >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Anjelina > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From coasterfreak88 at me.com Thu May 23 21:32:34 2013 From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 16:32:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <777FE4B7-3B89-407C-B91E-C0BBAF29C7DA@me.com> I also would like tangible proof. I am a die-hard Android user and support and respect Google. I do not believe that they would do a stunt like this. FOr older versions of browsers, I can understand that. But for newer ones? Jeez! From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Thu May 23 21:34:13 2013 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 17:34:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello all, I am running IE 10. If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed this message. I'll try to find another source for this information. Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was > going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions > newer than 8 would be ok. > > On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >> post a link about these possible changes? >> Thanks >> >> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>> Dudley >>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >>> >>> Hi all, >>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other >>> google app. >>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >>> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>> Just FYI. >>> Aleeha >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co >>> m >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Anjelina >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu May 23 21:45:31 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 14:45:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: And Firefox? Firefox would be way the best browser out there if it didn't keep crashing with JFW... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: ryan bishop Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:37 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi all, For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other google app. Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! Just FYI. Aleeha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 21:52:57 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 17:52:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00e701ce57ff$e34d1600$a9e74200$@gmail.com> Brandon, Yes--I agree with you there. My problem with Firefox was that it wouldn't load pages if I clicked on a link from an email, tweet, etc. If it wasn't doing that, I would use Firefox more often. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google And Firefox? Firefox would be way the best browser out there if it didn't keep crashing with JFW... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: ryan bishop Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:37 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi all, For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other google app. Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! Just FYI. Aleeha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From joshkart12 at gmail.com Thu May 23 21:54:01 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 17:54:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. I mean the electronic ones with the displays. Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hello all, > I am running IE 10. > > If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed this message. > I'll try to find another source for this information. > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >> newer than 8 would be ok. >> >> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>> post a link about these possible changes? >>> Thanks >>> >>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>> Dudley >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other >>>> google app. >>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >>>> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>> Just FYI. >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co >>>> m >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anjelina >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 21:54:34 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 17:54:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00e801ce5800$1d271d30$57755790$@gmail.com> Aleeha, Which Google services will not be supported? Will one still be able to use the Gmail Web interface with IE? Thanks, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hello all, I am running IE 10. If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed this message. I'll try to find another source for this information. Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was > going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions > newer than 8 would be ok. > > On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >> post a link about these possible changes? >> Thanks >> >> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>> Dudley >>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>> Google >>> >>> Hi all, >>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>> other google app. >>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>> Just FYI. >>> Aleeha >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40 >>> gmail.co >>> m >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gm >>> ail.com >> >> >> -- >> Anjelina >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%4 > 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 21:59:37 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 17:59:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. I mean the electronic ones with the displays. Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hello all, > I am running IE 10. > > If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed this message. > I'll try to find another source for this information. > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >> newer than 8 would be ok. >> >> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>> post a link about these possible changes? >>> Thanks >>> >>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>> Dudley >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>> Google >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>> other google app. >>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>> Just FYI. >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>> 0gmail.co >>>> m >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anjelina >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >> 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Wed May 22 22:10:46 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 18:10:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. I mean the electronic ones with the displays. Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hello all, > I am running IE 10. > > If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed this message. > I'll try to find another source for this information. > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >> newer than 8 would be ok. >> >> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>> post a link about these possible changes? >>> Thanks >>> >>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>> Dudley >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>> Google >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>> other google app. >>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>> Just FYI. >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>> 0gmail.co >>>> m >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anjelina >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >> 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:12:38 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 15:12:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <00e701ce57ff$e34d1600$a9e74200$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00e701ce57ff$e34d1600$a9e74200$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, It does that for me all the time, as long as the link is hyperlinked... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:52 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Brandon, Yes--I agree with you there. My problem with Firefox was that it wouldn't load pages if I clicked on a link from an email, tweet, etc. If it wasn't doing that, I would use Firefox more often. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google And Firefox? Firefox would be way the best browser out there if it didn't keep crashing with JFW... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: ryan bishop Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:37 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi all, For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other google app. Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! Just FYI. Aleeha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From mistydbradley at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:25:22 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:25:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I noticed a notification when I logged into my gmail account using Internet Explorer 8, but I think if you upgrade to Internet Explorer 9 it should be supported. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anjelina Cruz" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please > post a link about these possible changes? > Thanks > > On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >> Dudley >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >> >> Hi all, >> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other >> google app. >> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >> Just FYI. >> Aleeha >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Anjelina > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:29:28 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:29:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601ce5804$fd7f60a0$f87e21e0$@gmail.com> I told you... LOL! Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Oh my… And to think I was seriously considering switching to android? Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hi all, > For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any > Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. > This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any > other google app. > Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google > products at our colleges and universities!!!!! > Just FYI. > Aleeha > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:30:38 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 16:30:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have heard rumors that Chrome is accessible if you download a free plug-in for it. Does anyone know where that plug-in can be found or what it's called? I assumed I wouldn't need the information when I got it but now it appears that maybe I might? I also wonder if configuring a program like Outlook to work with Gmail would solve the problem since it's just Google apps like Gmail, and other as-yet-inaccessible apps like Docs and Calendar, that will be affected. Will the Google search engine be affected? Arielle On 5/22/13, justin wrote: > So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? > If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that > is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running > Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon > no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of > text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The > browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are > winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than > yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the > page, > I would have never noticed this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:32:32 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:32:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000701ce5805$6acfb100$406f1300$@gmail.com> Misty, If Aleeha got this notification when using IE 10, it seems to me that this applies to all other browsers aside from the inaccessible Chrome. I will try to log into my Gmail account using IE 9 and see if I get the notification. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn Bradley Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi, I noticed a notification when I logged into my gmail account using Internet Explorer 8, but I think if you upgrade to Internet Explorer 9 it should be supported. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anjelina Cruz" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please > post a link about these possible changes? > Thanks > > On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >> Dudley >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >> >> Hi all, >> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other >> google app. >> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >> Just FYI. >> Aleeha >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Anjelina > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:32:44 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:32:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris and all, there are a couple of steps you can take to prevent Firefox from crashing, freezing, and generally being annoying, one of which I just found out today. The first thing you can do is to disable any plugins that control flash. To do this, go into the add-ons manager, which can be found in the tools menu of Firefox. Go to add-ons and click on it. Then, tab once to get to the combo box where all your types of add-ons are displayed. Select plugins, then tab to the list of the ones that are installed. The two plugins that should be disabled to prevent flash content from slowing down and crashing Firefox are Shockwave, and Silverlite. If you have Quicktime installed, you may want to disable these as well. to disable any plugin, simply point to it, hit your applications key, and go to disable. Your browsing experience should now be enhanced, although you obviously won't be able to use it for things like youtube. Now for the second really cool thing which I was told about today. There is an add-on which can be installed for Firefox called Adblock Plus. You can find it by doing a google search. Once installed, this blocks a lot of extraneous content, like google ads and such. But what I didn't know was that there are also other scripts to make it block other things as well. If you visit this website, http://adblockplus.org/en/subscriptions there is a script called Fanboy's social media blocking list. That may not be the exact title, but that's the gist. In any case, if you do a Jaws search for Fanboy, you'll find it. Once you click the link to subscribe to this script, all the Facebook, Twitter, etc. widgets will be gone. This, I've found, has been a huge help. Any time a page would load with any of those kinds of widgets, which, really, is the majority of sites nowadays, Jaws would hang up for at least 10 seconds. now my browsing experience, with these two safeguards in place, is nearly flawless. I would encourage anyone who's having trouble with Firefox to try these fixes and see if you get desirable results. I should also point out that the latest version, which is 22.1, I believe, is a lot more stable than several of the previous versions. I have heard people recommend that the blind should use a severely outdated version of Firefox to enhance their browsing experience, like 3.6 or something, but I would not recommend that. Not only will your add-ons most likely not be supported, but there are probably big security holes in those versions by now as well. On 5/23/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that > is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running > Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon > no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of > text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The > browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are > winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than > yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the > page, > I would have never noticed this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:38:03 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:38:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <000701ce5805$6acfb100$406f1300$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <000701ce5805$6acfb100$406f1300$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm using IE 9, and I haven't gotten any such notification. On 5/23/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Misty, > > If Aleeha got this notification when using IE 10, it seems to me that this > applies to all other browsers aside from the inaccessible Chrome. I will > try > to log into my Gmail account using IE 9 and see if I get the notification. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn > Bradley > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Hi, > I noticed a notification when I logged into my gmail account using Internet > Explorer 8, but I think if you upgrade to Internet Explorer 9 it should be > supported. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anjelina Cruz" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > >>I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >> post a link about these possible changes? >> Thanks >> >> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>> Dudley >>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >>> >>> Hi all, >>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other >>> google app. >>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >>> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>> Just FYI. >>> Aleeha >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co >>> m >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anjelina >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:42:12 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:42:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Was I supposed to introduce myself? In-Reply-To: <2BC5D3EC-C175-4B18-8175-B5379572185A@gmail.com> References: <2BC5D3EC-C175-4B18-8175-B5379572185A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000901ce5806$c45fe4f0$4d1faed0$@gmail.com> Juanita, Welcome to the list! I'm Chris Nusbaum, a high school student here in Maryland. I currently serve on the Board of Directors of the Maryland student division, and am an active member of the NFB here. Again, welcome! Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita Herrera Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 11:03 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Was I supposed to introduce myself? Hello all, I have seen a few people introduce themselves as of late. I rarely ever post on here because I am shy to begin with and also because people don't know about me so I don't want to be just a random person posting. Anyways, my name is Juanita Herrera and I am a college student in California. I am currently working on my Associates degree in social and behavioral studies. I plan to someday be a marriage and family therapist. I also work at a nonprofit organization which trains blind individuals to be successful people in life. Additionally, I am the Secretary of the California Association of Blind Students. In comparison to many of you, I am quite new to the National Federation of the Blind. I have only been involved with this organization for about a year and a half. Thus far, I have been to one national convention and one state convention in California. I Also attended Washington seminar but was unable to attend any of the events put on by NABS. Anyways, sorry for the long post. I hope to get to meet a lot of you and become more acquainted with nabs. Juanita Herrera Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:43:20 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:43:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars In-Reply-To: References: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2> <004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com> <-3133380024830217629@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <000a01ce5806$ed1e7f50$c75b7df0$@gmail.com> Yes, if you have an outlook.com account. Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:51 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars Not necessarily, Outlook does have a web-based interface. Which I do believe includes calendar. Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 10:43 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > The calendar in Outlook would work, but they are looking for something > web based. For this, I would try Google calendar or I calendar, if you > have an iOS device or a Mac computer. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 10:34 AM, justin wrote: > >> I don't know if anyone suggested this; I think they did, but is excel >> usable in this way? Also, maybe the calendar in outlook. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am actually looking for a similar tool, something that would be web >> accessible, be able to show all events for a semester at a time, and >> somehow allow for people to sign up for these events. Any suggestions >> would be greatly appreciated. >> >> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of >>> all the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there >>> are any accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or >>> Facebook or somewhere else? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>> .o rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com>> -l _nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >> gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:38:55 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:38:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000801ce5806$4f654cd0$ee2fe670$@gmail.com> Lucy, Welcome to the list! I hope you find the discussion here informative and entertaining! Your name sounds familiar. Were you on the BrailleNote list when it was still owned by HumanWare? If so, I was on that list with you. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lucy Sirianni Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member Thanks for the welcome, everyone; I'm glad to be here! And Helga and Leye- Shprintse, it's always nice to meet other literature majors. Feel free to email me off-list if you'd ever like to be in touch with someone in the field.... Lucy ----- Original Message ----- From: Leye-Shprintse : Hi all, I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! Best, Lucy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs- l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse %40ymail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs- l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lucysirianni% 40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs- l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs- l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:48:30 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:48:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001601ce5807$a5b71ea0$f1255be0$@gmail.com> Desiree, Thank you for this information. Is the Ad Blocker script free? Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi Chris and all, there are a couple of steps you can take to prevent Firefox from crashing, freezing, and generally being annoying, one of which I just found out today. The first thing you can do is to disable any plugins that control flash. To do this, go into the add-ons manager, which can be found in the tools menu of Firefox. Go to add-ons and click on it. Then, tab once to get to the combo box where all your types of add-ons are displayed. Select plugins, then tab to the list of the ones that are installed. The two plugins that should be disabled to prevent flash content from slowing down and crashing Firefox are Shockwave, and Silverlite. If you have Quicktime installed, you may want to disable these as well. to disable any plugin, simply point to it, hit your applications key, and go to disable. Your browsing experience should now be enhanced, although you obviously won't be able to use it for things like youtube. Now for the second really cool thing which I was told about today. There is an add-on which can be installed for Firefox called Adblock Plus. You can find it by doing a google search. Once installed, this blocks a lot of extraneous content, like google ads and such. But what I didn't know was that there are also other scripts to make it block other things as well. If you visit this website, http://adblockplus.org/en/subscriptions there is a script called Fanboy's social media blocking list. That may not be the exact title, but that's the gist. In any case, if you do a Jaws search for Fanboy, you'll find it. Once you click the link to subscribe to this script, all the Facebook, Twitter, etc. widgets will be gone. This, I've found, has been a huge help. Any time a page would load with any of those kinds of widgets, which, really, is the majority of sites nowadays, Jaws would hang up for at least 10 seconds. now my browsing experience, with these two safeguards in place, is nearly flawless. I would encourage anyone who's having trouble with Firefox to try these fixes and see if you get desirable results. I should also point out that the latest version, which is 22.1, I believe, is a lot more stable than several of the previous versions. I have heard people recommend that the blind should use a severely outdated version of Firefox to enhance their browsing experience, like 3.6 or something, but I would not recommend that. Not only will your add-ons most likely not be supported, but there are probably big security holes in those versions by now as well. On 5/23/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer > users--that is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh > Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of >> offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your > browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will > see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as > Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell > you what browser you are winning and will also list three other > browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and > using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed > this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Aleeha Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96% >>>>> 4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40 >>>>> g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>> 0 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993 >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >> l >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Thu May 23 22:49:18 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:49:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alleha, this is Helga. I'm sorry for asking you these silly questions. I'm not actually a person who knows everything about computer, even though I use it in order to read my emails and to do my college studies. But I was just wondering, What do you mean when you say that for those using Internet Explorer as your browser and using any Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported? I just would like to know since I'm not a person who knows everything about computers. Just to let you know, I actually use windows 7 and 8 computers operating systems. Is this problem will affect my BrailleNote device since I use the Braille display of it, and my computers operating systems? I just would like to know. By the way, could you explain me this? Thanks so much for listening to me and God bless!! :) -----Original Message----- From: Aleeha Dudley Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi all, For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other google app. Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! Just FYI. Aleeha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Thu May 23 18:42:47 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 14:42:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Lucy, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you, would it be possible for you to send me your email address? I will really appreciate it. Thanks so much and God bless! :) -----Original Message----- From: Lucy Sirianni Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member Thanks for the welcome, everyone; I'm glad to be here! And Helga and Leye-Shprintse, it's always nice to meet other literature majors. Feel free to email me off-list if you'd ever like to be in touch with someone in the field.... Lucy ----- Original Message ----- From: Leye-Shprintse : Hi all, I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! Best, Lucy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse %40ymail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lucysirianni% 40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Thu May 23 23:36:52 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 19:36:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <000601ce5804$fd7f60a0$f87e21e0$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce5804$fd7f60a0$f87e21e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <19A6896A-C89C-4D6A-B5FA-F77D9A6A2EB2@gmail.com> Yes my dear friend you did, you certainly did. :-) Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 6:29 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > I told you... LOL! > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Oh my… And to think I was seriously considering switching to android? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > >> Hi all, >> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >> other google app. >> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >> Just FYI. >> Aleeha >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From mistydbradley at gmail.com Fri May 24 01:04:10 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 21:04:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com><000701ce5805$6acfb100$406f1300$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A79689F95C24D8697DD75B2F6C6818B@acerd37f251f21> I was using IE 8 and it came up for me just above the search box I believe. I clicked on the link within the google notification about browsers and it told me that I could download a newer version of IE or download Firefox, Opera, or Chrome I believe was the selection. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > I'm using IE 9, and I haven't gotten any such notification. > > On 5/23/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Misty, >> >> If Aleeha got this notification when using IE 10, it seems to me that >> this >> applies to all other browsers aside from the inaccessible Chrome. I will >> try >> to log into my Gmail account using IE 9 and see if I get the >> notification. >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn >> Bradley >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >> Google >> >> Hi, >> I noticed a notification when I logged into my gmail account using >> Internet >> Explorer 8, but I think if you upgrade to Internet Explorer 9 it should >> be >> supported. >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anjelina Cruz" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >> Google >> >> >>>I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>> post a link about these possible changes? >>> Thanks >>> >>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>> Dudley >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other >>>> google app. >>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >>>> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>> Just FYI. >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co >>>> m >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anjelina >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Fri May 24 00:48:51 2013 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 20:48:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Is Anyone Looking For A Roomate For Convention? Message-ID: Hi Everyone: I am planning to attend national convention in Orlando. I called the hotel yesterday to reserve a room and they are sold out. So, I was wondering if anyone has a room reserved and is looking for a roomate? Either respond on-list, or email me off-list. Thanks so much! Kerri From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Fri May 24 02:16:21 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 22:16:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Composer Message-ID: Hi all, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I’m learning how to play the guitar, and I actually took Music Appreciation class this past Spring Semester! I actually really like this class. Actually, my Music Appreciation professor send me this music video of a Blind composer. As a matter of fact, he told me that here is a piece of music from youtube that I mentioned. The guitarist is John Williams - It is a guitar concierto called Concierto de Aranjuez. Written in 1939 by Joaquin Rodrigo from Spain. Rodrigo was a blind composer for piano, vocal and orchestra and also some guitar. He lived to be 100 years old. His wife Victoria helped him with his braille to write music. The second movement is considered one of the greatest pieces of guitar music ever! Guitar conciertos are rare as for the soft sound of the guitar, but there are about 10 good ones. This is the best by far! Here is the link of the music video. Hope you guys like it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Xdlgii-Rc From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri May 24 02:30:40 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 22:30:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have the same question. As a jaws user, I use internet explorer 9 and often use google as my search engine. As a jaws user, I find this simple search webpage user friendly because it does not have many links and images as other search engines do like yahoo. I hope the ability to surf the internet using internet explorer 10 which is the latest browser is not affected. I'm tired of google's tricks and inaccessibility of their aps. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: justin Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:10 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. I mean the electronic ones with the displays. Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hello all, > I am running IE 10. > > If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed this message. > I'll try to find another source for this information. > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >> newer than 8 would be ok. >> >> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>> post a link about these possible changes? >>> Thanks >>> >>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>> Dudley >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>> Google >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>> other google app. >>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>> Just FYI. >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>> 0gmail.co >>>> m >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anjelina >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >> 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri May 24 05:04:51 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 22:04:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Composer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <913DCA365F1446ADA63FDD9786E3D533@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I am a music major and I can definitely vouch that I knew about the second movement of this piece way before I knew Rodrigo was blind... I didn't know till my theory teacher referenced him as being a very successful blind composer. I have no idea how he managed to write for so many parts using Braille and or dictating to someone. That would just have taken for ever and is so confusing. I have a hard time managing 4 parts, let alone an orchestra under a classical guitar that is full of 16th notes and strumming's. Anyone who knows Braille music knows it is insane trying to read a whole orchestra score in Braille, I have no idea how he wrote a whole multi movement score... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Helga Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 7:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Composer Hi all, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I’m learning how to play the guitar, and I actually took Music Appreciation class this past Spring Semester! I actually really like this class. Actually, my Music Appreciation professor send me this music video of a Blind composer. As a matter of fact, he told me that here is a piece of music from youtube that I mentioned. The guitarist is John Williams - It is a guitar concierto called Concierto de Aranjuez. Written in 1939 by Joaquin Rodrigo from Spain. Rodrigo was a blind composer for piano, vocal and orchestra and also some guitar. He lived to be 100 years old. His wife Victoria helped him with his braille to write music. The second movement is considered one of the greatest pieces of guitar music ever! Guitar conciertos are rare as for the soft sound of the guitar, but there are about 10 good ones. This is the best by far! Here is the link of the music video. Hope you guys like it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Xdlgii-Rc _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From kaybaycar at gmail.com Fri May 24 03:59:57 2013 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 22:59:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi everyone, I use gmail online exclusively, and I looked for the message. I found it near the top of my page. I clicked on the link to find a more updated browser. It told me that I was running IE 10. Then it gave me choices including firefox, Chrome, and some other things. Then I kept reading, and it thanked me for keeping my browser up-to-date and explained a little more about browsers in general. I think all google wants is to make sure people have the latest browser, whatever that may be. I am not a computer genius though, so I could have missed something. Please let me know if I am wrong because then I'll need to download firefox or stop using the computer altogether... I've used webmail for so long that I refuse to switch to an email program at this point. :) On 5/23/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I have the same question. As a jaws user, I use internet explorer 9 and > often use google as my search engine. As a jaws user, I find this simple > search webpage user friendly because it does not have many links and images > > as other search engines do like yahoo. > I hope the ability to surf the internet using internet explorer 10 which is > > the latest browser is not affected. > I'm tired of google's tricks and inaccessibility of their aps. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: justin > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:10 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? > If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that > is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running > Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon > no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of > text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The > browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are > winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than > yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the > page, > I would have never noticed this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 23 04:06:11 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 00:06:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: <000801ce5806$4f654cd0$ee2fe670$@gmail.com> References: <000801ce5806$4f654cd0$ee2fe670$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <008401ce576a$dcdd3ec0$9697bc40$@gmail.com> Good morning lucy. My name is Justin. Great to meet you. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:39 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member Lucy, Welcome to the list! I hope you find the discussion here informative and entertaining! Your name sounds familiar. Were you on the BrailleNote list when it was still owned by HumanWare? If so, I was on that list with you. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lucy Sirianni Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member Thanks for the welcome, everyone; I'm glad to be here! And Helga and Leye- Shprintse, it's always nice to meet other literature majors. Feel free to email me off-list if you'd ever like to be in touch with someone in the field.... Lucy ----- Original Message ----- From: Leye-Shprintse : Hi all, I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of interest, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to being part of the group! Best, Lucy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs- l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse %40ymail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs- l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lucysirianni% 40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs- l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs- l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs- l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs- l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 23 04:08:20 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 00:08:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars In-Reply-To: References: <0F7AAEDCB79B4B759C832A4ECF8BE51D@BrandonsLaptop2> <004c01ce56f9$defe8270$9cfb8750$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00d201ce576b$29de6140$7d9b23c0$@gmail.com> I'm not sure about that. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars Hello, Excel may work, does it have a way where you can post an interactive copy online? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: justin Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:37 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars I don't know if anyone suggested this; I think they did, but is excel usable in this way? Also, maybe the calendar in outlook. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible web calendars Hi all, I am actually looking for a similar tool, something that would be web accessible, be able to show all events for a semester at a time, and somehow allow for people to sign up for these events. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > for my Fraternity, people are requesting that I create a calendar of > all the events we are doing for the quarter. I'm wondering if there > are any accessible calendar websites or capabilities on Google or > Facebook or somewhere else? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com _nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com> > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Fri May 24 00:10:48 2013 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 20:10:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0E603609-CDCF-42CA-A536-45E3F1585FE2@gmail.com> Thank you for the specific directions. I was able to find the part of the page that you were referring to. Thanks lots. Sent from Anjelina's iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hello all, > I am running IE 10. > > If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed this message. > I'll try to find another source for this information. > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >> newer than 8 would be ok. >> >> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>> post a link about these possible changes? >>> Thanks >>> >>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>> Dudley >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any other >>>> google app. >>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >>>> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>> Just FYI. >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co >>>> m >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anjelina >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Fri May 24 05:59:46 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 01:59:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Composer In-Reply-To: <913DCA365F1446ADA63FDD9786E3D533@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <913DCA365F1446ADA63FDD9786E3D533@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hey Brandon, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you, do you play the guitar, and for how long have you study a Music Major? Do you want to become a Music professor? I'm just curious! Thanks and God bless! -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 1:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Composer Hello, I am a music major and I can definitely vouch that I knew about the second movement of this piece way before I knew Rodrigo was blind... I didn't know till my theory teacher referenced him as being a very successful blind composer. I have no idea how he managed to write for so many parts using Braille and or dictating to someone. That would just have taken for ever and is so confusing. I have a hard time managing 4 parts, let alone an orchestra under a classical guitar that is full of 16th notes and strumming's. Anyone who knows Braille music knows it is insane trying to read a whole orchestra score in Braille, I have no idea how he wrote a whole multi movement score... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Helga Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 7:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Composer Hi all, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I’m learning how to play the guitar, and I actually took Music Appreciation class this past Spring Semester! I actually really like this class. Actually, my Music Appreciation professor send me this music video of a Blind composer. As a matter of fact, he told me that here is a piece of music from youtube that I mentioned. The guitarist is John Williams - It is a guitar concierto called Concierto de Aranjuez. Written in 1939 by Joaquin Rodrigo from Spain. Rodrigo was a blind composer for piano, vocal and orchestra and also some guitar. He lived to be 100 years old. His wife Victoria helped him with his braille to write music. The second movement is considered one of the greatest pieces of guitar music ever! Guitar conciertos are rare as for the soft sound of the guitar, but there are about 10 good ones. This is the best by far! Here is the link of the music video. Hope you guys like it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Xdlgii-Rc _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu May 23 22:55:21 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:55:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001701ce5808$9ae78590$d0b690b0$@gmail.com> Arielle and all, Google has made a screen reader for Chrome called ChromeVox. You should be able to find this either by doing a Google search or finding it on the plug-in page for Chrome. As for Gmail, your suggestion would work; in fact, I use Outlook to access my Gmail account. However, one must buy the Office Home and Business package in order for Outlook to work. If you can afford it, this is a good option--in fact, I consider Outlook to be much easier to use than the Gmail Web interface. Furthermore, all features of Outlook are accessible, whereas only those limited features available in Gmail's Basic HTML mode are accessible. The only drawback is that Gmail is free, whereas Outlook is a paid program. Hope this helps, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google I have heard rumors that Chrome is accessible if you download a free plug-in for it. Does anyone know where that plug-in can be found or what it's called? I assumed I wouldn't need the information when I got it but now it appears that maybe I might? I also wonder if configuring a program like Outlook to work with Gmail would solve the problem since it's just Google apps like Gmail, and other as-yet-inaccessible apps like Docs and Calendar, that will be affected. Will the Google search engine be affected? Arielle On 5/22/13, justin wrote: > So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? > If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris > Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google > > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer > users--that is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh > Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of >> offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your > browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will > see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as > Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell > you what browser you are winning and will also list three other > browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and > using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed > this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Aleeha Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96% >>>>> 4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40 >>>>> g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>> 0 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993 >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >> l >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us Fri May 24 11:04:10 2013 From: icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us (Greg Wocher) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 07:04:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <519F492A.5030402@gtwebdesign.us> Hello, First off I do not get this message about the browser being out of date with the latest version of firefox. Secondly, the message I am seeing is that some, and I reiterate only some, of the features may not work correctly. It said nothing about not being able to use them at all. Before anyone does any google bashing look at the message first when you log into your gmail accounts. I use android on a day to day basis and have no problems with it all. Greg Wocher Follow me on Twitter @GWocher On 5/23/2013 10:30 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I have the same question. As a jaws user, I use internet explorer 9 > and often use google as my search engine. As a jaws user, I find this > simple search webpage user friendly because it does not have many > links and images as other search engines do like yahoo. > I hope the ability to surf the internet using internet explorer 10 > which is the latest browser is not affected. > I'm tired of google's tricks and inaccessibility of their aps. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- From: justin > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:10 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google > > So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be > affected? > If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris > Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google > > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that > is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the > notetakers. I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running > Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will > soon > no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of > text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The > browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are > winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than > yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the > page, > I would have never noticed this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%40gtwebdesign.us > > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri May 24 12:03:21 2013 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 08:03:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com><00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com><002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I use gmail to but I only log in to my account to clean out my spam folder. I also saw that message that the version of internet explorer I am using will no longer be supported. I have also been using internet explorer for so long that I don't want to use another browser either. I tried firefox with no success. I use Microsoft office outlook for my email. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 12:00 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi everyone, I use gmail online exclusively, and I looked for the message. I found it near the top of my page. I clicked on the link to find a more updated browser. It told me that I was running IE 10. Then it gave me choices including firefox, Chrome, and some other things. Then I kept reading, and it thanked me for keeping my browser up-to-date and explained a little more about browsers in general. I think all google wants is to make sure people have the latest browser, whatever that may be. I am not a computer genius though, so I could have missed something. Please let me know if I am wrong because then I'll need to download firefox or stop using the computer altogether... I've used webmail for so long that I refuse to switch to an email program at this point. :) On 5/23/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I have the same question. As a jaws user, I use internet explorer 9 and > often use google as my search engine. As a jaws user, I find this simple > search webpage user friendly because it does not have many links and images > > as other search engines do like yahoo. > I hope the ability to surf the internet using internet explorer 10 which is > > the latest browser is not affected. > I'm tired of google's tricks and inaccessibility of their aps. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: justin > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:10 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? > If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that > is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running > Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon > no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of > text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The > browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are > winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than > yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the > page, > I would have never noticed this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu May 23 23:12:41 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 16:12:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Using Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com><00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <23E828C52A0346E9ABBFAEAB3036695D@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I have done everything you said, but I do watch YouTube all the time, so didn't remove the adobe flash player. I am wondering if I can see what version of Firefox I have? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi Chris and all, there are a couple of steps you can take to prevent Firefox from crashing, freezing, and generally being annoying, one of which I just found out today. The first thing you can do is to disable any plugins that control flash. To do this, go into the add-ons manager, which can be found in the tools menu of Firefox. Go to add-ons and click on it. Then, tab once to get to the combo box where all your types of add-ons are displayed. Select plugins, then tab to the list of the ones that are installed. The two plugins that should be disabled to prevent flash content from slowing down and crashing Firefox are Shockwave, and Silverlite. If you have Quicktime installed, you may want to disable these as well. to disable any plugin, simply point to it, hit your applications key, and go to disable. Your browsing experience should now be enhanced, although you obviously won't be able to use it for things like youtube. Now for the second really cool thing which I was told about today. There is an add-on which can be installed for Firefox called Adblock Plus. You can find it by doing a google search. Once installed, this blocks a lot of extraneous content, like google ads and such. But what I didn't know was that there are also other scripts to make it block other things as well. If you visit this website, http://adblockplus.org/en/subscriptions there is a script called Fanboy's social media blocking list. That may not be the exact title, but that's the gist. In any case, if you do a Jaws search for Fanboy, you'll find it. Once you click the link to subscribe to this script, all the Facebook, Twitter, etc. widgets will be gone. This, I've found, has been a huge help. Any time a page would load with any of those kinds of widgets, which, really, is the majority of sites nowadays, Jaws would hang up for at least 10 seconds. now my browsing experience, with these two safeguards in place, is nearly flawless. I would encourage anyone who's having trouble with Firefox to try these fixes and see if you get desirable results. I should also point out that the latest version, which is 22.1, I believe, is a lot more stable than several of the previous versions. I have heard people recommend that the blind should use a severely outdated version of Firefox to enhance their browsing experience, like 3.6 or something, but I would not recommend that. Not only will your add-ons most likely not be supported, but there are probably big security holes in those versions by now as well. On 5/23/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that > is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running > Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon > no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of > text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The > browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are > winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than > yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the > page, > I would have never noticed this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Fri May 24 02:00:47 2013 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 22:00:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <4A79689F95C24D8697DD75B2F6C6818B@acerd37f251f21> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <000701ce5805$6acfb100$406f1300$@gmail.com> <4A79689F95C24D8697DD75B2F6C6818B@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: Hi all, I'm running IE 9 but did not see any such notifications when I signed into my gmail account just now. I do remember seeing such notifications when I was running IE 8, which prompted me to upgrade the browser, but I haven't had any problems since. Aleeha, you might want to double check which version of IE you are actually running - You can do this by going to Help > About. I'm pretty sure that Google is dropping support for older versions of web browsers, not for IE or Firefox more generally. Katie On 5/23/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > I was using IE 8 and it came up for me just above the search box I believe. > > I clicked on the link within the google notification about browsers and it > told me that I could download a newer version of IE or download Firefox, > Opera, or Chrome I believe was the selection. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:38 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > >> I'm using IE 9, and I haven't gotten any such notification. >> >> On 5/23/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Misty, >>> >>> If Aleeha got this notification when using IE 10, it seems to me that >>> this >>> applies to all other browsers aside from the inaccessible Chrome. I will >>> try >>> to log into my Gmail account using IE 9 and see if I get the >>> notification. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn >>> Bradley >>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:25 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>> Google >>> >>> Hi, >>> I noticed a notification when I logged into my gmail account using >>> Internet >>> Explorer 8, but I think if you upgrade to Internet Explorer 9 it should >>> be >>> supported. >>> Misty >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Anjelina Cruz" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>> Google >>> >>> >>>>I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other >>>>> google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >>>>> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co >>> m >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 23 13:33:39 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 09:33:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com><00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com><002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003401ce57ba$23700300$6a500900$@gmail.com> Do the nfb higher ups know about this? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Ismail LMT Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 8:03 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google I use gmail to but I only log in to my account to clean out my spam folder. I also saw that message that the version of internet explorer I am using will no longer be supported. I have also been using internet explorer for so long that I don't want to use another browser either. I tried firefox with no success. I use Microsoft office outlook for my email. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 12:00 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi everyone, I use gmail online exclusively, and I looked for the message. I found it near the top of my page. I clicked on the link to find a more updated browser. It told me that I was running IE 10. Then it gave me choices including firefox, Chrome, and some other things. Then I kept reading, and it thanked me for keeping my browser up-to-date and explained a little more about browsers in general. I think all google wants is to make sure people have the latest browser, whatever that may be. I am not a computer genius though, so I could have missed something. Please let me know if I am wrong because then I'll need to download firefox or stop using the computer altogether... I've used webmail for so long that I refuse to switch to an email program at this point. :) On 5/23/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I have the same question. As a jaws user, I use internet explorer 9 > and often use google as my search engine. As a jaws user, I find this > simple search webpage user friendly because it does not have many > links and images > > as other search engines do like yahoo. > I hope the ability to surf the internet using internet explorer 10 > which is > > the latest browser is not affected. > I'm tired of google's tricks and inaccessibility of their aps. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: justin > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:10 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? > If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris > Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer > users--that is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh > Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of >> offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your > browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will > see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as > Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell > you what browser you are winning and will also list three other > browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and > using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed > this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Aleeha Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96% >>>>> 4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40 >>>>> g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>> 0 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993 >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >> l >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. > com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From coasterfreak88 at me.com Fri May 24 10:24:03 2013 From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 05:24:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I thought ChromeVox was built in? From louvins at gmail.com Fri May 24 03:06:11 2013 From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 22:06:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Composer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Helga and all. I am a guitar player myself, and have been playing for a few years. I sing at my local church and have helped out my college by playing at a fund raiser they have had for two years. I've even made a bit of money playing the guitar. I play traditional gospel and country songs. I don't use a pick, just my fingers when playing my chords. You mentioned blind guitar players, well, have you ever heard of doc watson? He was a blind guitar player, and was extremely good at flat picking. Here is a youtube video of his song called Settin on Top of The World. The link is http://youtu.be/Y1q4Eb34mwM I hope you all enjoy it. If anyone would like to contact me off list to talk about guitar, they may do so at louvins at gmail.com. Have a great day all. Just a quick note, Doc is not only playing the guitar in the video, he is also singing as well. On 5/23/13, Helga wrote: > Hi all, this is Helga. > I just wanted to tell you that I’m learning how to play the guitar, and I > actually took Music Appreciation class this past Spring Semester! I actually > really like this class. Actually, my Music Appreciation professor send me > this music video of a Blind composer. As a matter of fact, he told me that > here is a piece of music from youtube that I mentioned. The guitarist is > John Williams - It is a guitar concierto called Concierto de Aranjuez. > > Written in 1939 by Joaquin Rodrigo from Spain. Rodrigo was a blind composer > for piano, vocal and orchestra and also some guitar. He lived to be 100 > years old. His wife Victoria helped him with his braille to write music. > The second movement is considered one of the greatest pieces of guitar music > ever! > Guitar conciertos are rare as for the soft sound of the guitar, but there > are about 10 good ones. This is the best by far! > Here is the link of the music video. Hope you guys like it! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Xdlgii-Rc > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com > -- Joshua T Hendrickson From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Fri May 24 11:26:50 2013 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 07:26:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Converting AA files to mp3 Message-ID: Hi all I have a question? Do any of you know how to convert AA files to mp3 and is there an accessable program that will work with jaws or NVDA From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 24 14:03:58 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:03:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <19A6896A-C89C-4D6A-B5FA-F77D9A6A2EB2@gmail.com> References: <000601ce5804$fd7f60a0$f87e21e0$@gmail.com> <19A6896A-C89C-4D6A-B5FA-F77D9A6A2EB2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3283856143940094817@unknownmsgid> LOL! Long live the iPhone!!! :) Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 8:09 PM, Josh Gregory wrote: > Yes my dear friend you did, you certainly did. :-) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 6:29 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > >> I told you... LOL! >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >> >> Oh my… And to think I was seriously considering switching to android? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>> other google app. >>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >>> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>> Just FYI. >>> Aleeha >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >>> .com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Fri May 24 14:31:42 2013 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 09:31:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another Stupid Message About update from Google References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com><000701ce5805$6acfb100$406f1300$@gmail.com><4A79689F95C24D8697DD75B2F6C6818B@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: <006101ce588b$69b34da0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, This is something that hitting your delete key or hanging up the phone can fix. These messages are getting rather annoying and it's time to reign them in. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Hi all, I'm running IE 9 but did not see any such notifications when I signed into my gmail account just now. I do remember seeing such notifications when I was running IE 8, which prompted me to upgrade the browser, but I haven't had any problems since. Aleeha, you might want to double check which version of IE you are actually running - You can do this by going to Help > About. I'm pretty sure that Google is dropping support for older versions of web browsers, not for IE or Firefox more generally. Katie On 5/23/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > I was using IE 8 and it came up for me just above the search box I > believe. > > I clicked on the link within the google notification about browsers and it > told me that I could download a newer version of IE or download Firefox, > Opera, or Chrome I believe was the selection. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:38 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google > > >> I'm using IE 9, and I haven't gotten any such notification. >> >> On 5/23/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Misty, >>> >>> If Aleeha got this notification when using IE 10, it seems to me that >>> this >>> applies to all other browsers aside from the inaccessible Chrome. I will >>> try >>> to log into my Gmail account using IE 9 and see if I get the >>> notification. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn >>> Bradley >>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:25 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>> Google >>> >>> Hi, >>> I noticed a notification when I logged into my gmail account using >>> Internet >>> Explorer 8, but I think if you upgrade to Internet Explorer 9 it should >>> be >>> supported. >>> Misty >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Anjelina Cruz" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>> Google >>> >>> >>>>I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other >>>>> google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >>>>> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co >>> m >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 24 14:04:56 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:04:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1832328243905482926@unknownmsgid> It's built into ChromeBooks, but I believe you must download it if you are running Chrome on any other computer. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2013, at 9:49 AM, John Moore wrote: > I thought ChromeVox was built in? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 24 14:07:46 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:07:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <003401ce57ba$23700300$6a500900$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> <003401ce57ba$23700300$6a500900$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <-6822791509644165936@unknownmsgid> I'm not sure, but I do know that Valerie Yingling, the main paralegal who works with Google on behalf of the NFB is on this list. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2013, at 9:44 AM, justin wrote: > Do the nfb higher ups know about this? > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Ismail > LMT > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 8:03 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > I use gmail to but I only log in to my account to clean out my spam folder. > I also saw that message that the version of internet explorer I am using > will no longer be supported. > I have also been using internet explorer for so long that I don't want to > use another browser either. > I tried firefox with no success. > I use Microsoft office outlook for my email. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 12:00 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Hi everyone, > > I use gmail online exclusively, and I looked for the message. I found it > near the top of my page. I clicked on the link to find a more updated > browser. It told me that I was running IE 10. Then it gave me choices > including firefox, Chrome, and some other things. Then I kept reading, and > it thanked me for keeping my browser up-to-date and explained a little more > about browsers in general. > > I think all google wants is to make sure people have the latest browser, > whatever that may be. I am not a computer genius though, so I could have > missed something. Please let me know if I am wrong because then I'll need > to download firefox or stop using the computer altogether... I've used > webmail for so long that I refuse to switch to an email program at this > point. :) > > On 5/23/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> I have the same question. As a jaws user, I use internet explorer 9 >> and often use google as my search engine. As a jaws user, I find this >> simple search webpage user friendly because it does not have many >> links and > images >> >> as other search engines do like yahoo. >> I hope the ability to surf the internet using internet explorer 10 >> which > is >> >> the latest browser is not affected. >> I'm tired of google's tricks and inaccessibility of their aps. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: justin >> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:10 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google >> >> So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be > affected? >> If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris >> Nusbaum >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google >> >> Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer >> users--that is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh >> Gregory >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google >> >> I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. >> I >> mean the electronic ones with the displays. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> I am running IE 10. >>> >>> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of >>> offered >> services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are >> running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your >> browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will >> see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as >> Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell >> you what browser you are winning and will also list three other >> browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and >> using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed >> this message. >>> I'll try to find another source for this information. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot >> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Aleeha Dudley >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>>> Google >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>>> other google app. >>>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>>> Just FYI. >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96% >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>>> m >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40 >>>>>> g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Anjelina >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>> 0 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993 >>>> % >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >> com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation > of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of > Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For > God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who > believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri May 24 14:45:17 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:45:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: No, it is only built into the chromebooks. You have to download it for the browser itself. Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2013, at 6:24 AM, John Moore wrote: > I thought ChromeVox was built in? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri May 24 14:46:20 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:46:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <3283856143940094817@unknownmsgid> References: <000601ce5804$fd7f60a0$f87e21e0$@gmail.com> <19A6896A-C89C-4D6A-B5FA-F77D9A6A2EB2@gmail.com> <3283856143940094817@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Yes and hopefully iOS 7, :-) Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2013, at 10:03 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > LOL! Long live the iPhone!!! :) > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 8:09 PM, Josh Gregory wrote: > >> Yes my dear friend you did, you certainly did. :-) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 6:29 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: >> >>> I told you... LOL! >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory >>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >>> >>> Oh my… And to think I was seriously considering switching to android? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 23, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>> other google app. >>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google >>>> products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>> Just FYI. >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >>>> .com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From steve.jacobson at visi.com Fri May 24 14:45:54 2013 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 09:45:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <001701ce5808$9ae78590$d0b690b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Chris and others, To my knowledge, GMAIL still allows both POP3 and IMAP access which means that any e-mail client will likely work, not just Outlook. This means that Thunderbird or Windows Live Mail should both work, and probably even old versions of Outlook Express if someone is still running it. I have used a program for e-mail called "Becky" which is not free but inexpensive, perhaps $40, to access GMail. I believe that GMail does require an SSL connection which is not supported in some old email clients. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Thu, 23 May 2013 18:55:21 -0400, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >Arielle and all, >Google has made a screen reader for Chrome called ChromeVox. You should be >able to find this either by doing a Google search or finding it on the >plug-in page for Chrome. >As for Gmail, your suggestion would work; in fact, I use Outlook to access >my Gmail account. However, one must buy the Office Home and Business package >in order for Outlook to work. If you can afford it, this is a good >option--in fact, I consider Outlook to be much easier to use than the Gmail >Web interface. Furthermore, all features of Outlook are accessible, whereas >only those limited features available in Gmail's Basic HTML mode are >accessible. The only drawback is that Gmail is free, whereas Outlook is a >paid program. >Hope this helps, >Chris >Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >Public Relations Committee >Maryland Association of Blind Students >Phone: (443) 547-2409 >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >Silverman >Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:31 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google >I have heard rumors that Chrome is accessible if you download a free plug-in >for it. Does anyone know where that plug-in can be found or what it's >called? I assumed I wouldn't need the information when I got it but now it >appears that maybe I might? >I also wonder if configuring a program like Outlook to work with Gmail would >solve the problem since it's just Google apps like Gmail, and other >as-yet-inaccessible apps like Docs and Calendar, that will be affected. Will >the Google search engine be affected? >Arielle >On 5/22/13, justin wrote: >> So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be >affected? >> If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris >> Nusbaum >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >> Google >> >> Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer >> users--that is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh >> Gregory >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >> Google >> >> I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. >> I >> mean the electronic ones with the displays. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> I am running IE 10. >>> >>> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of >>> offered >> services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are >> running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your >> browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will >> see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as >> Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell >> you what browser you are winning and will also list three other >> browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and >> using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed >> this message. >>> I'll try to find another source for this information. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot >> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Aleeha Dudley >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>>> Google >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>>> other google app. >>>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>>> Just FYI. >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96% >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>>> m >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40 >>>>>> g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Anjelina >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>> 0 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993 >>>> % >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >om >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Thu May 23 23:24:44 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 19:24:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <001601ce5807$a5b71ea0$f1255be0$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <001601ce5807$a5b71ea0$f1255be0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, it's free. On 5/23/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Desiree, > > Thank you for this information. Is the Ad Blocker script free? > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Hi Chris and all, > there are a couple of steps you can take to prevent Firefox from crashing, > freezing, and generally being annoying, one of which I just found out > today. > The first thing you can do is to disable any plugins that control flash. To > do this, go into the add-ons manager, which can be found in the tools menu > of Firefox. Go to add-ons and click on it. > Then, tab once to get to the combo box where all your types of add-ons are > displayed. Select plugins, then tab to the list of the ones that are > installed. The two plugins that should be disabled to prevent flash content > from slowing down and crashing Firefox are Shockwave, and Silverlite. If > you > have Quicktime installed, you may want to disable these as well. to disable > any plugin, simply point to it, hit your applications key, and go to > disable. Your browsing experience should now be enhanced, although you > obviously won't be able to use it for things like youtube. > Now for the second really cool thing which I was told about today. > There is an add-on which can be installed for Firefox called Adblock Plus. > You can find it by doing a google search. Once installed, this blocks a lot > of extraneous content, like google ads and such. But what I didn't know was > that there are also other scripts to make it block other things as well. If > you visit this website, http://adblockplus.org/en/subscriptions > there is a script called Fanboy's social media blocking list. That may not > be the exact title, but that's the gist. In any case, if you do a Jaws > search for Fanboy, you'll find it. Once you click the link to subscribe to > this script, all the Facebook, Twitter, etc. widgets will be gone. This, > I've found, has been a huge help. Any time a page would load with any of > those kinds of widgets, which, really, is the majority of sites nowadays, > Jaws would hang up for at least 10 seconds. > now my browsing experience, with these two safeguards in place, is nearly > flawless. I would encourage anyone who's having trouble with Firefox to try > these fixes and see if you get desirable results. I should also point out > that the latest version, which is 22.1, I believe, is a lot more stable > than > several of the previous versions. I have heard people recommend that the > blind should use a severely outdated version of Firefox to enhance their > browsing experience, like > 3.6 or something, but I would not recommend that. Not only will your > add-ons > most likely not be supported, but there are probably big security holes in > those versions by now as well. > > On 5/23/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer >> users--that is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh >> Gregory >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >> Google >> >> I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the >> notetakers. >> I >> mean the electronic ones with the displays. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> I am running IE 10. >>> >>> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of >>> offered >> services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are >> running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your >> browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will >> see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as >> Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell >> you what browser you are winning and will also list three other >> browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and >> using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed >> this message. >>> I'll try to find another source for this information. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot >> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Aleeha Dudley >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>>> Google >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>>> other google app. >>>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>>> Just FYI. >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96% >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>>> m >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40 >>>>>> g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Anjelina >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>> 0 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993 >>>> % >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Fri May 24 01:29:29 2013 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:29:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6F433251-03DC-472D-A0D0-8D29547D58AA@gmail.com> And it comes full circle. The add-on to Google Chrome is called chromevox. First you have to download the browser, then you have to navigate to the Google play store and install chromevox. There is a tutorial, but I have not gotten through it. I know that some people could reach some level of success with it, but I do not know the details. I became so irritated with it. I tried to figure out some solutions for my job since everyone prefers to use Google applications, however I realized that I was wasting a lot of work time trying to figure things out that my colleagues were willing to do with me on dropbox. It is quite annoying though, but I do hate saying that things are automatically inaccessible. I wish that some more people who are using Google Chromevox would speak up and give some tips. I just didn't find the interface to be that intuitive, and my life Didn't depend on it since the grad students in my lap were willing to work with me. But I do know that not using Google apps annoys the crap out of them, and if I can't even use mail, that will be even worse. I will look at my Gmail interface now see if I can find a similar message. Until then, I would love to hear more feedback about chromevox. Cindy Bennett Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington Secretary: National Association of Blind Students B.A. Psychology: UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hi Alleha, this is Helga. I'm sorry for asking you these silly questions. I'm not actually a person who knows everything about computer, even though I use it in order to read my emails and to do my college studies. But I was just wondering, What do you mean when you say that for those using Internet Explorer as your browser and using any Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported? I just would like to know since I'm not a person who knows everything about computers. Just to let you know, I actually use windows 7 and 8 computers operating systems. Is this problem will affect my BrailleNote device since I use the Braille display of it, and my computers operating systems? I just would like to know. By the way, could you explain me this? Thanks so much for listening to me and God bless!! :) > > -----Original Message----- From: Aleeha Dudley > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Hi all, > For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any > Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. > This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any > other google app. > Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google > products at our colleges and universities!!!!! > Just FYI. > Aleeha > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu May 23 14:55:17 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 10:55:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <6F433251-03DC-472D-A0D0-8D29547D58AA@gmail.com> References: <6F433251-03DC-472D-A0D0-8D29547D58AA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <007d01ce57c5$8aa1b3b0$9fe51b10$@gmail.com> There is a gmail link that says basic html. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google And it comes full circle. The add-on to Google Chrome is called chromevox. First you have to download the browser, then you have to navigate to the Google play store and install chromevox. There is a tutorial, but I have not gotten through it. I know that some people could reach some level of success with it, but I do not know the details. I became so irritated with it. I tried to figure out some solutions for my job since everyone prefers to use Google applications, however I realized that I was wasting a lot of work time trying to figure things out that my colleagues were willing to do with me on dropbox. It is quite annoying though, but I do hate saying that things are automatically inaccessible. I wish that some more people who are using Google Chromevox would speak up and give some tips. I just didn't find the interface to be that intuitive, and my life Didn't depend on it since the grad students in my lap were willing to work with me. But I do know that not using Google apps annoys the crap out of them, and if I can't even use mail, that will be even worse. I will look at my Gmail interface now see if I can find a similar message. Until then, I would love to hear more feedback about chromevox. Cindy Bennett Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington Secretary: National Association of Blind Students B.A. Psychology: UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hi Alleha, this is Helga. I'm sorry for asking you these silly > questions. I'm not actually a person who knows everything about > computer, even though I use it in order to read my emails and to do my > college studies. But I was just wondering, What do you mean when you > say that for those using Internet Explorer as your browser and using > any Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported? > I just would like to know since I'm not a person who knows everything > about computers. Just to let you know, I actually use windows 7 and 8 > computers operating systems. Is this problem will affect my > BrailleNote device since I use the Braille display of it, and my > computers operating systems? I just would like to know. By the way, > could you explain me this? Thanks so much for listening to me and God > bless!! :) > > -----Original Message----- From: Aleeha Dudley > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from > Google > > Hi all, > For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any > Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. > This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any > other google app. > Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of Google > products at our colleges and universities!!!!! > Just FYI. > Aleeha > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40 > hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.co > m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri May 24 01:00:35 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 19:00:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Captia Advocacy Question Message-ID: Hi all, I am curious to know your thoughts on this issue and what you have done in similar situations. This fall I will be doing some serious job hunting and am looking at university professor positions. My advisor and others suggested I search for job openings on the Chronicle of Higher Education's website. I went onto their site and was thrilled to see that they allowed job-seekers to set up an account and receive customized job alerts by email. The catch is that creating an account requires completing a Captia and the audio Captia they offer is extremely hard to understand. I can usually get it after three or four tries, but this one was impossibly difficult. After several attempts I sent an email to their support address explaining my situation and that the audio Captia was inadequate. I requested they create an account for me and that they may want to change their Captia and replace it with math problems or at least spoken words (this one was numbers). It has been a week and I have not heard a word from them. I could just get my fiancée to help me, or play around with WebVism, but I am genuinely concerned that other blind job-seekers might not have these options and might be deterred from getting this important job information. I am curious if you guys think I should take this complaint further and, if so, who should I contact? Have any of you tried to get inaccessible Captias fixed? Have you succeeded? Thanks, Arielle From gpaikens at gmail.com Fri May 24 13:11:48 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 09:11:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Mac book air or mac book pro? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45D62C57-954B-4CF1-8131-C33276DBEE5F@gmail.com> First off, great choice of school. I graduated from Wake Forest in 06 and really enjoyed my time there. As to the differences between the macbook pro and the air, the pro is larger and costs less for things like a large hard drive etc. I use a Macbook pro 13" for all of my personal computing and it does everything I need it to. I also used it in graduate school for research and writing papers etc., but I will tell you that at least for now, Jaws and Microsoft Word are a more effective solution for writing papers etc. than are Pages and Mac. The Air is so nice because it is so thin and light. You give up things like having a CD/DVD drive, but that may not be important. It also costs more to get the same kind of hard drive storage that you would get on a laptop. When I priced them out a year and a half ago, the starting model for the Macbook Air only had 64 gb of storage, where the starter for the Pro had 500 gb. They were similarly priced. If you have another laptop though, this difference may not matter. Hope this helps. Best of luck as you start next year. Go Deacs! -Greg On May 23, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Kate wrote: > Good morning all! I was just wondering your thoughts regarding the Mac book pro 13-inch verses the 11-inch mac book air? I will be beginning my undergraduate study at Wake Forest University next year and want to have a mac for basic needs such as Facebook, E-mail, research, iTunes, etc. Wake Forest provides a PC to us for excel and other academic purposes. What are your thoughts? Thank you in advance. > Kathryn Webster > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From opensesame at me.com Fri May 24 14:09:25 2013 From: opensesame at me.com (Bryan Jones) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:09:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1F91980A-6C66-462D-8EEB-1165EC925D79@me.com> The following information is in regard to Google's support for various web browsers in general and is not inteneded to imply any kind of support for screen-reading technology. In 2011 Google enacted a policy to support the current and most recent previous version of Internet Explorer, Firefox, Safari & Chrome. This operates on a rolling schedule, so as a new full version of a browser is released, support is added for that version and dropped for the third oldest version. For example, IE 9 and 10 are currently supported, but if and when IE 11 is released, Google will add support for IE 11, maintain support for IE 10, and drop support for IE 9. This, of course, assumes Google's current policy remains in effect. For GMail Users, here is a Google Knowledgebase article providing some more details about browser version support for the GMail web User interface. Note that this article is not targeted at screen reader Users, so YMMV. In my experience I've found that the current versions of Chrome work well with VoiceOver on IOS devices running IOS 6 and Macs running Mountain Lion. I don't have enough experience with Chrome accessibility on Windows and Linux to provide an opinion. ChromeVox is Google's own screen-reading technology that can be added to the Chrome browser running On Mac, Linux & Windows as well as the Chrome Operating System. Information and installation instructions for ChromeVox can be found at the following site: http://www.chromevox.com Note that ChromeVox is Google's screen reader for the Chrome web browser and the ChromeOS, while TalkBack is Google's screen reader for Android. HTH, Bryan >> -----Original Message----- >> So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? >> If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? From djd76257 at gmail.com Fri May 24 15:24:06 2013 From: djd76257 at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 11:24:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Converting AA files to mp3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is, it's called SoundTaxi. Not the easiest to use but it does work. If you'd like more help, drop me a line off list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tiffany miles" To: Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 7:26 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Converting AA files to mp3 > Hi all I have a question? Do any of you know how to convert AA files to > mp3 > and is there an accessable program that will work with jaws or NVDA > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djd76257%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri May 24 15:24:22 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 08:24:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Composer In-Reply-To: References: <913DCA365F1446ADA63FDD9786E3D533@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hello, I'm an Opera singer and I have been in college for 6 years, 3 of which have been as a music major. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Composer Hey Brandon, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you, do you play the guitar, and for how long have you study a Music Major? Do you want to become a Music professor? I'm just curious! Thanks and God bless! -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 1:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Composer Hello, I am a music major and I can definitely vouch that I knew about the second movement of this piece way before I knew Rodrigo was blind... I didn't know till my theory teacher referenced him as being a very successful blind composer. I have no idea how he managed to write for so many parts using Braille and or dictating to someone. That would just have taken for ever and is so confusing. I have a hard time managing 4 parts, let alone an orchestra under a classical guitar that is full of 16th notes and strumming's. Anyone who knows Braille music knows it is insane trying to read a whole orchestra score in Braille, I have no idea how he wrote a whole multi movement score... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Helga Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 7:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Composer Hi all, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I’m learning how to play the guitar, and I actually took Music Appreciation class this past Spring Semester! I actually really like this class. Actually, my Music Appreciation professor send me this music video of a Blind composer. As a matter of fact, he told me that here is a piece of music from youtube that I mentioned. The guitarist is John Williams - It is a guitar concierto called Concierto de Aranjuez. Written in 1939 by Joaquin Rodrigo from Spain. Rodrigo was a blind composer for piano, vocal and orchestra and also some guitar. He lived to be 100 years old. His wife Victoria helped him with his braille to write music. The second movement is considered one of the greatest pieces of guitar music ever! Guitar conciertos are rare as for the soft sound of the guitar, but there are about 10 good ones. This is the best by far! Here is the link of the music video. Hope you guys like it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Xdlgii-Rc _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From jty727 at gmail.com Fri May 24 15:25:40 2013 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 11:25:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Captia Advocacy Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle and all! I have not dealt with a specific situation like this, but I certainly have had my share of inequality captions. So far out of all the ones that I have experienced, the best I've seen is the audio one offered by ebay which is numbers clear enough to understand it. I wish you much luck in your professor journey which I'm sure you'll be wonderful at! Justin On 5/23/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I am curious to know your thoughts on this issue and what you have > done in similar situations. This fall I will be doing some serious job > hunting and am looking at university professor positions. My advisor > and others suggested I search for job openings on the Chronicle of > Higher Education's website. I went onto their site and was thrilled to > see that they allowed job-seekers to set up an account and receive > customized job alerts by email. The catch is that creating an account > requires completing a Captia and the audio Captia they offer is > extremely hard to understand. I can usually get it after three or four > tries, but this one was impossibly difficult. After several attempts I > sent an email to their support address explaining my situation and > that the audio Captia was inadequate. I requested they create an > account for me and that they may want to change their Captia and > replace it with math problems or at least spoken words (this one was > numbers). It has been a week and I have not heard a word from them. I > could just get my fiancée to help me, or play around with WebVism, but > I am genuinely concerned that other blind job-seekers might not have > these options and might be deterred from getting this important job > information. I am curious if you guys think I should take this > complaint further and, if so, who should I contact? Have any of you > tried to get inaccessible Captias fixed? Have you succeeded? > > Thanks, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From louvins at gmail.com Fri May 24 15:40:33 2013 From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:40:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Composer In-Reply-To: References: <913DCA365F1446ADA63FDD9786E3D533@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hello, Joshua. I don't know how to restring my guitar, but I can take the strings off ok. If you need to replace an e string, I'd replace the whole set of strings and not just the missing string. Brandon since you're an opera singer, have you read Lori Rubins book called Do You Dream In Color available on bard. Bonnie might have her on as a guest for books and beyond next Wednesday. Books and Beyond is a great show. On 5/24/13, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I'm an Opera singer and I have been in college for 6 years, 3 of which have > been as a music major. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Helga Schreiber > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Composer > > Hey Brandon, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you, do you play the > guitar, and for how long have you study a Music Major? Do you want to become > a Music professor? I'm just curious! Thanks and God bless! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 1:04 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Composer > > Hello, > I am a music major and I can definitely vouch that I knew about the second > movement of this piece way before I knew Rodrigo was blind... I didn't know > till my theory teacher referenced him as being a very successful blind > composer. > I have no idea how he managed to write for so many parts using Braille and > or dictating to someone. That would just have taken for ever and is so > confusing. I have a hard time managing 4 parts, let alone an orchestra under > a classical guitar that is full of 16th notes and strumming's. > Anyone who knows Braille music knows it is insane trying to read a whole > orchestra score in Braille, I have no idea how he wrote a whole multi > movement score... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Helga > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 7:16 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Composer > > Hi all, this is Helga. > I just wanted to tell you that I’m learning how to play the guitar, and I > actually took Music Appreciation class this past Spring Semester! I actually > really like this class. Actually, my Music Appreciation professor send me > this music video of a Blind composer. As a matter of fact, he told me that > here is a piece of music from youtube that I mentioned. The guitarist is > John Williams - It is a guitar concierto called Concierto de Aranjuez. > > Written in 1939 by Joaquin Rodrigo from Spain. Rodrigo was a blind composer > for piano, vocal and orchestra and also some guitar. He lived to be 100 > years old. His wife Victoria helped him with his braille to write music. > The second movement is considered one of the greatest pieces of guitar music > ever! > Guitar conciertos are rare as for the soft sound of the guitar, but there > are about 10 good ones. This is the best by far! > Here is the link of the music video. Hope you guys like it! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Xdlgii-Rc > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com > -- Joshua T Hendrickson From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri May 24 10:34:22 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 06:34:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: <001701ce5808$9ae78590$d0b690b0$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> <001701ce5808$9ae78590$d0b690b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually if the mobile version of Gmail is used on the computer, it is usable. Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 6:55 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Arielle and all, > > Google has made a screen reader for Chrome called ChromeVox. You should be > able to find this either by doing a Google search or finding it on the > plug-in page for Chrome. > > As for Gmail, your suggestion would work; in fact, I use Outlook to access > my Gmail account. However, one must buy the Office Home and Business package > in order for Outlook to work. If you can afford it, this is a good > option--in fact, I consider Outlook to be much easier to use than the Gmail > Web interface. Furthermore, all features of Outlook are accessible, whereas > only those limited features available in Gmail's Basic HTML mode are > accessible. The only drawback is that Gmail is free, whereas Outlook is a > paid program. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > I have heard rumors that Chrome is accessible if you download a free plug-in > for it. Does anyone know where that plug-in can be found or what it's > called? I assumed I wouldn't need the information when I got it but now it > appears that maybe I might? > I also wonder if configuring a program like Outlook to work with Gmail would > solve the problem since it's just Google apps like Gmail, and other > as-yet-inaccessible apps like Docs and Calendar, that will be affected. Will > the Google search engine be affected? > > Arielle > > On 5/22/13, justin wrote: >> So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be > affected? >> If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris >> Nusbaum >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >> Google >> >> Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer >> users--that is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh >> Gregory >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >> Google >> >> I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. >> I >> mean the electronic ones with the displays. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> I am running IE 10. >>> >>> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of >>> offered >> services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are >> running Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your >> browser will soon no longer be supported. Under that message, you will >> see another line of text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as >> Google chrome. The browser link takes you to a site which will tell >> you what browser you are winning and will also list three other >> browsers that are more modern than yours. If I had not been bored and >> using my arrow keys to navigate the page, I would have never noticed >> this message. >>> I'll try to find another source for this information. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot >> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Aleeha Dudley >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>>> Google >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>>> other google app. >>>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>>> Just FYI. >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96% >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>>> m >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40 >>>>>> g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Anjelina >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>> 0 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993 >>>> % >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From louvins at gmail.com Fri May 24 02:31:39 2013 From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 21:31:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Lucy. Glad to have you on the list. I just joined a few days ago. Hope you enjoy your time on the list. On 5/23/13, Helga wrote: > Hi Lucy, this is Helga. I just would like to ask you, would it be possible > for you to send me your email address? I will really appreciate it. Thanks > so much and God bless! :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lucy Sirianni > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member > > Thanks for the welcome, everyone; I'm glad to be here! And Helga > and Leye-Shprintse, it's always nice to meet other literature > majors. Feel free to email me off-list if you'd ever like to be > in touch with someone in the field.... > > Lucy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Leye-Shprintse To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 23 May 2013 13:01:45 +0200 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction from a new list member > > BS"D > > Lucy, > > Welcome to this group! I'm also a language and literature > student! :-) I hope that you'll enjoy the group, I've learnt a > lot! > > Kind regards, > Leye-Shprintse > > Envoy챕 de mon iPad > > 23 maj 2013 kl. 03:57 skrev Lucy Sirianni > : > > Hi all, > > I'm Lucy Sirianni, a new member of this group. Some of you may > recognize my name from other listservs, but for those who don't > know me, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm a doctoral student > who has been totally blind since birth due to Leber's Congenital > Amaurosis. After growing up in Minnesota, where I homeschooled > along with my three younger (sighted) siblings, I did my > undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins, majoring in English, and I'm > now working toward my Ph.D. in English at Berkeley, preparing to > become a literature professor once I've finished the program. If > there's anything else I can share that might be of help or of > interest, please don't hesitate to ask. > > I'm glad to have finally joined this list, and I look forward to > being part of the group! > > Best, > > Lucy > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse > %40ymail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lucysirianni% > 40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com > -- Joshua T Hendrickson From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Fri May 24 02:59:18 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 22:59:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Another thing to keep in mind is that Youtube is a google service as well. That would be another thing you might lose out on as an internet explorer user. Although, from Misty's message above, it sounds like it may just be those who are using IE 8 who will have to either switch or upgrade. It makes sense, given the integration of HTML 5, which is slowly replacing flash. As far as I'm concerned, I welcome it. I've hated flash ever since I realized that it and Firefox get along about as well as a pitbull and a kitten. On 5/23/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I have the same question. As a jaws user, I use internet explorer 9 and > often use google as my search engine. As a jaws user, I find this simple > search webpage user friendly because it does not have many links and images > > as other search engines do like yahoo. > I hope the ability to surf the internet using internet explorer 10 which is > > the latest browser is not affected. > I'm tired of google's tricks and inaccessibility of their aps. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: justin > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:10 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? > If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that > is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running > Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon > no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of > text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The > browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are > winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than > yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the > page, > I would have never noticed this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri May 24 04:36:19 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 00:36:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm not seeing it when I log in with IE 9, but I'll be on the lookout for it. It's weird that it's showing up for some people with higher browsers but not everyone. If this does become an issue, it will be just like the Kindle and Whispercast thing in the schools now. I know my university just switched to Google from IBM for their emailing this year, so the odds that schools like it aren't going to want to switch from Google any time soon if accessibility roadblocks start cropping up. Outlook would probably be a workable solution assuming that Gmail is the only thing that is going to be effected. I doubt that Google would make their search engine inaccessible because the whole point of the simplicity behind it is so that everyone can use it without getting confused or turned around. I would hope that they wouldn't try to complicate things to keep in competition with Bing or the other search engines and sacrifice accessibility in the process, but we'll have to see I guess. Thanks for bringing this up, Aleeha. It definitely sounds like something we should keep an eye on. On 5/23/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I have the same question. As a jaws user, I use internet explorer 9 and > often use google as my search engine. As a jaws user, I find this simple > search webpage user friendly because it does not have many links and images > > as other search engines do like yahoo. > I hope the ability to surf the internet using internet explorer 10 which is > > the latest browser is not affected. > I'm tired of google's tricks and inaccessibility of their aps. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: justin > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:10 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? > If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that > is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running > Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon > no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of > text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The > browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are > winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than > yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the > page, > I would have never noticed this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Fri May 24 16:05:35 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 16:05:35 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce57f5$4b9ac000$e2d04000$@gmail.com> <00ef01ce5800$d1c97c10$755c7430$@gmail.com> <002801ce5739$361ce9e0$a256bda0$@gmail.com> , Message-ID: Desiree! Google Groups won't let me access them with IE8, but although Youtube is a Google service, I can access it just fine. Surprisingly, it hasn't changed! Flash has got to go though! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google Another thing to keep in mind is that Youtube is a google service as well. That would be another thing you might lose out on as an internet explorer user. Although, from Misty's message above, it sounds like it may just be those who are using IE 8 who will have to either switch or upgrade. It makes sense, given the integration of HTML 5, which is slowly replacing flash. As far as I'm concerned, I welcome it. I've hated flash ever since I realized that it and Firefox get along about as well as a pitbull and a kitten. On 5/23/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I have the same question. As a jaws user, I use internet explorer 9 and > often use google as my search engine. As a jaws user, I find this simple > search webpage user friendly because it does not have many links and images > > as other search engines do like yahoo. > I hope the ability to surf the internet using internet explorer 10 which is > > the latest browser is not affected. > I'm tired of google's tricks and inaccessibility of their aps. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: justin > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:10 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > So, is my ability to surf the internet on my computer going to be affected? > If so, what do we do? Does the nfb and Dr. Mauer know? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > Not only that, but it will effect all of us as blind computer users--that > is, until Google makes Chrome accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from Google > > I hate to say this but this is going to drastically affect the notetakers. > I > mean the electronic ones with the displays. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Aleeha Dudley > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I am running IE 10. >> >> If you look on the front page of your email, under the list of offered > services like drive and calendar, you will see a message, if you are > running > Internet explorer, you will see a message that says your browser will soon > no longer be supported. Under that message, you will see another line of > text that says upgrade to a modern browser such as Google chrome. The > browser link takes you to a site which will tell you what browser you are > winning and will also list three other browsers that are more modern than > yours. If I had not been bored and using my arrow keys to navigate the > page, > I would have never noticed this message. >> I'll try to find another source for this information. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 17:22, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: >> >>> Yes, a link would be nice. It was my understanding that Google was >>> going to stop supporting IE 8, not IE in general. I thought versions >>> newer than 8 would be ok. >>> >>> On 5/23/13, Anjelina Cruz wrote: >>>> I am a bit behind. When was this info released? Can someone please >>>> post a link about these possible changes? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 5/23/13, ryan bishop wrote: >>>>> Wait, are you saying there only going to expect Google crome? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha >>>>> Dudley >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:31 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] watch out! it's another ridiculous update from >>>>> Google >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> For those using Internet explorer as your browser and using any >>>>> Google-related app, your browser will soon no longer be supported. >>>>> This means that you could easily lose access to your mail and any >>>>> other google app. >>>>> Just another reason why we should fight against the adoption of >>>>> Google products at our colleges and universities!!!!! >>>>> Just FYI. >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993% >>> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From lucysirianni at earthlink.net Fri May 24 16:19:55 2013 From: lucysirianni at earthlink.net (Lucy Sirianni) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 09:19:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Captia Advocacy Question Message-ID: Hi Arielle, I'm sorry to hear that the Chronicle of Higher Ed has this issue. Perhaps the site's staff would be more responsive if they heard from other blind users as well? I anticipate using their job-related resources eventually, and I'd imagine others in the blind academics group would also want to ensure that the site is fully accessible. I'll be interested to see what others have to say about this; I've certainly encountered my fair share of inaccessible captchas, but, unless the website in question is open to changing their system, I haven't yet found a great way of rectifying the situation. It would be great to know if there are resources/contacts out there that might be of help. Very best of luck with the job search!! Lucy ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman Hi all, I apologize if the below has been mentioned on the list before; I glanced through the archives, but as a new member, I may have missed previous posts. That said, I think the below is tremendously important for all of us as blind students, so I wanted to pass it along. Please take a moment to look at the links and to consider signing both of the petitions. According to these resources, it's currently the case that less than 1% of the world's printed books (less than 5% in the US) are accessible to blind readers; I'm sure we all agree that this is an appalling statistic, and I hope many of us will be able to support the people working to change it. Thanks, everyone! Lucy ---- Original Message ------ From: "Bookshare" References: Message-ID: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at this interracial gay couple. When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he asks me a very important question. “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common one in the blindness community. “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with HIV and aids as well. I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well as me in the future. I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end these “offensive questions.” The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever give. If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other writing archives */ *Click here to view my resume* * * *Click here to see my writing archive * *Click here to view my website/ / * */ /* */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * *Tel: 850 764 2161 * Facebook Twitter LinkedIn YouTube WordPress Blog RSS My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long Will I Cry? (play) WordPress My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news Read more | My blog Share on Facebook  Share on Twitter Get this email app! Designed with WiseStamp - Get yours From annajee82 at gmail.com Sat May 25 06:39:49 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 02:39:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Is Anyone Looking For A Roomate For Convention? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did u find one? Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi Everyone: > > I am planning to attend national convention in Orlando. I called the > hotel yesterday to reserve a room and they are sold out. > So, I was wondering if anyone has a room reserved and is looking for a roomate? > Either respond on-list, or email me off-list. > Thanks so much! > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com From kathrynwebster at me.com Sat May 25 19:56:40 2013 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kathryn Webster) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 15:56:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help References: <39440e0084-kathrynwebster=me.com@mail.vresp.com> Message-ID: <6FCD9BDD-90D6-4EFD-B6E8-6659274B3258@me.com> Please create an account and sign this petition to help us! It only takes two minutes and its focus is us :) thank you. Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: Bookshare > Date: May 24, 2013, 8:05:59 PM EDT > To: kathrynwebster at me.com > Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > Reply-To: Bookshare > > Dear Bookshare Supporter, > > It’s not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt this situation was so important it was necessary. > > You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind." The goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for people who are blind, or have other print disabilities such as dyslexia, to get access to the books they need for education, employment and inclusion in society—no matter where they live. It's something we already do, with great success, in the United States through Bookshare. > > However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a way that it would become useless—even harmful. For example, they’re trying to get language adopted that basically says: “if you can buy it, you can’t borrow it.” This is not only an attack on people around the world with print disabilities—it’s also an attack on libraries, like Bookshare, and could have a drastic effect on the number of books you have access to. > > Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare from serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We need our government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library like Bookshare. > > That’s why we’re working with a coalition of disability and library groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed changes by these private interests. We’ll do everything we can to secure a treaty that both protects the access we have now and that will benefit people with print disabilities around the world—but we need your help. > > We’re asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White House’s website that urges the President to step up his support: http://ow.ly/lkJVs. If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House is required to respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive action. With your help we know we can reach that number. We also recommend the petition at the National Federation of the Blind’s site, which is particularly accessible. > > Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our collective voice can make a real impact. > > If you’re interested in more background on the treaty, here are some articles and resources you can review: > Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by private interests: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-fruchterman/poisoning-the-treaty-for-_b_3225181.html > WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: http://ow.ly/lfP15 > > Sincerely, > Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare > > P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social media to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, here is the link: http://ow.ly/lkJVs. > > Note: this advocacy effort by Benetech, the nonprofit organization that operates Bookshare, has not been supported or endorsed by Bookshare funders, including the U.S. Department of Education. > > > Click to view this email in a browser > > If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe > Benetech > 480 S. California Ave., Suite 201 > Palo Alto, California 94306 > US > Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. > > From kathrynwebster at me.com Sat May 25 20:09:36 2013 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kathryn Webster) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 16:09:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Mac book air or mac book pro? In-Reply-To: References: <45D62C57-954B-4CF1-8131-C33276DBEE5F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <63166DC5-512C-4BC3-AD0C-2A32608FB77F@me.com> Thanks so much for you guys' input...Greg, would you mind if I e-mailed you off list in order to ask you some questions about your Wake Forrest experience? Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2013, at 5:50 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi, > > Just to chime in on one of the things Greg said. I don't have a mac, > but I use an HP ultrabook that like the Macbook Air does not have a CD > drive. Should you decide to get the Air, not having a CD slot > shouldn't be much of an issue as long as you don't use your computer > to play CDs all the time. As everything is primarily online these > days I haven't really needed to do anything with my external CD drive > I bought, although having one of those can be handy in case the > occasion comes when you need to rip or burn something. As a student I > appreciate that my computer is pretty light and doesn't take up a lot > of room at all in my backpack too. > > On 5/24/13, Greg Aikens wrote: >> First off, great choice of school. I graduated from Wake Forest in 06 and >> really enjoyed my time there. >> >> As to the differences between the macbook pro and the air, the pro is larger >> and costs less for things like a large hard drive etc. I use a Macbook pro >> 13" for all of my personal computing and it does everything I need it to. I >> also used it in graduate school for research and writing papers etc., but I >> will tell you that at least for now, Jaws and Microsoft Word are a more >> effective solution for writing papers etc. than are Pages and Mac. >> >> The Air is so nice because it is so thin and light. You give up things like >> having a CD/DVD drive, but that may not be important. It also costs more to >> get the same kind of hard drive storage that you would get on a laptop. >> When I priced them out a year and a half ago, the starting model for the >> Macbook Air only had 64 gb of storage, where the starter for the Pro had 500 >> gb. They were similarly priced. If you have another laptop though, this >> difference may not matter. >> >> Hope this helps. Best of luck as you start next year. >> >> Go Deacs! >> >> -Greg >> >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Kate wrote: >> >>> Good morning all! I was just wondering your thoughts regarding the Mac >>> book pro 13-inch verses the 11-inch mac book air? I will be beginning my >>> undergraduate study at Wake Forest University next year and want to have a >>> mac for basic needs such as Facebook, E-mail, research, iTunes, etc. Wake >>> Forest provides a PC to us for excel and other academic purposes. What are >>> your thoughts? Thank you in advance. >>> Kathryn Webster >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat May 25 16:22:46 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 10:22:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Test Message-ID: This is a test. From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat May 25 17:06:33 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 13:06:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Whitehouse Petition Message-ID: Hi all, For those of you who are not on the Bookshare.org mailing list, below is the text of an email containing a link to sign a petition on the Whitehouse web site pertaining to the same issues covered by the one on the NFB's web site. If this one gets 1000,000 signatures by June 22nd though, the Whitehouse and congressional leaders will be required to take a closer look at the issue and possibly take action with us. You need to create a whitehouse.gov account and there is a captia image to get through, (and the audio is unfortunately not great), but if you can get through those steps it's so worth it. The petition still needs some 96,000 signatures! Sign, sign, sign! Dear Kaiti, It’s not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt this situation was so important it was necessary. You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind." The goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for people who are blind, or have other print disabilities such as dyslexia, to get access to the books they need for education, employment and inclusion in society—no matter where they live. It's something we already do, with great success, in the United States through Bookshare. However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a way that it would become useless—even harmful. For example, they’re trying to get language adopted that basically says: “if you can buy it, you can’t borrow it.” This is not only an attack on people around the world with print disabilities—it’s also an attack on libraries, like Bookshare, and could have a drastic effect on the number of books you have access to. Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare from serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We need our government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library like Bookshare. That’s why we’re working with a coalition of disability and library groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed changes by these private interests. We’ll do everything we can to secure a treaty that both protects the access we have now and that will benefit people with print disabilities around the world—but we need your help. We’re asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White House’s website that urges the President to step up his support: http://ow.ly/lkJVs. If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House is required to respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive action. With your help we know we can reach that number. We also recommend the petition at the National Federation of the Blind’s site, which is particularly accessible. Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our collective voice can make a real impact. If you’re interested in more background on the treaty, here are some articles and resources you can review: • Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by private interests: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-fruchterman/poisoning-the-treaty-for-_b_3225181.html • WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: http://ow.ly/lfP15 Sincerely, Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social media to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, here is the link: http://ow.ly/lkJVs. Note: this advocacy effort by Benetech, the nonprofit organization that operates Bookshare, has not been supported or endorsed by Bookshare funders, including the U.S. Department of Education. -- Kaiti From lissa1531 at gmail.com Mon May 27 16:46:31 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 10:46:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help References: <39440e0084-kathrynwebster=me.com@mail.vresp.com> <6FCD9BDD-90D6-4EFD-B6E8-6659274B3258@me.com> Message-ID: I discovered that you have to create an account to sign the petition. You must know that there is a captcha that has to be solved in order to create an account. *frustrated sigh* Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathryn Webster" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:56 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help Please create an account and sign this petition to help us! It only takes two minutes and its focus is us :) thank you. Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: Bookshare > Date: May 24, 2013, 8:05:59 PM EDT > To: kathrynwebster at me.com > Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > Reply-To: Bookshare > > Dear Bookshare Supporter, > > It’s not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt this > situation was so important it was necessary. > > You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving > forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind." The > goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for people who are > blind, or have other print disabilities such as dyslexia, to get access to > the books they need for education, employment and inclusion in society—no > matter where they live. It's something we already do, with great success, > in the United States through Bookshare. > > However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a way > that it would become useless—even harmful. For example, they’re trying to > get language adopted that basically says: “if you can buy it, you can’t > borrow it.” This is not only an attack on people around the world with > print disabilities—it’s also an attack on libraries, like Bookshare, and > could have a drastic effect on the number of books you have access to. > > Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare from > serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We need our > government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library like > Bookshare. > > That’s why we’re working with a coalition of disability and library > groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the American > Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed changes by these > private interests. We’ll do everything we can to secure a treaty that both > protects the access we have now and that will benefit people with print > disabilities around the world—but we need your help. > > We’re asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White House’s > website that urges the President to step up his support: > http://ow.ly/lkJVs. If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House > is required to respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive > action. With your help we know we can reach that number. We also > recommend the petition at the National Federation of the Blind’s site, > which is particularly accessible. > > Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our > collective voice can make a real impact. > > If you’re interested in more background on the treaty, here are some > articles and resources you can review: > Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by > private interests: > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-fruchterman/poisoning-the-treaty-for-_b_3225181.html > WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: > http://ow.ly/lfP15 > > Sincerely, > Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare > > P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social media > to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, here is the > link: http://ow.ly/lkJVs. > > Note: this advocacy effort by Benetech, the nonprofit organization that > operates Bookshare, has not been supported or endorsed by Bookshare > funders, including the U.S. Department of Education. > > > Click to view this email in a browser > > If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this > message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the > following link: Unsubscribe > Benetech > 480 S. California Ave., Suite 201 > Palo Alto, California 94306 > US > Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Mon May 27 16:52:09 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:52:09 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Okay, now I'm having problems with Google! Message-ID: Good grief! It's telling me, when I'm trying to set up a Google Group, that it doesn't support my browsers, (IE8, or Firefox!) To make things worse, my new server that I switched to for my list, has stopped working for some reason! http://www.fiesta.cc I'm stuck, and don't know where to go! Thanks, Joshua From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon May 27 16:52:26 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:52:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: we got it! I guess the nfb server is back! -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 12:22 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Test This is a test. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Mon May 27 17:09:00 2013 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 13:09:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <248321E5-D86D-48F3-876F-6798C55C6B79@aol.com> Hi Lucy, Were you able to sign the petition? I keep trying but,mi really can not understand the audio. Bridget Sent from my iPad On May 25, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Lucy Sirianni wrote: > Hi all, > > I apologize if the below has been mentioned on the list before; I glanced through the archives, but as a new member, I may have missed previous posts. That said, I think the below is tremendously important for all of us as blind students, so I wanted to pass it along. Please take a moment to look at the links and to consider signing both of the petitions. According to these resources, it's currently the case that less than 1% of the world's printed books (less than 5% in the US) are accessible to blind readers; I'm sure we all agree that this is an appalling statistic, and I hope many of us will be able to support the people working to change it. > > Thanks, everyone! > > Lucy > > ---- Original Message ------ > From: "Bookshare" Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > Date sent: Fri, 24 May 2013 23:49:27 +0000 > > Dear Lucy, > > It's not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt > this situation was so important it was necessary. > > You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving > forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind - > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/8c6ac19ad5 " The goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for > people who are blind, or have other print disabilities such as > dyslexia, to get access to the books they need for education, > employment and inclusion in society--no matter where they live. It's > something we already do, with great success, in the United States > through Bookshare. > > However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a > way that it would become useless--even harmful. For example, they're > trying to get language adopted that basically says: "if you can buy > it, you can't borrow it." This is not only an attack on people around > the world with print disabilities--it's also an attack on libraries, > like Bookshare, and could have a drastic effect on the number of > books you have access to. > > Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare > from serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We > need our government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library > like Bookshare. > > That's why we're working with a coalition of disability and library > groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the > American Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed > changes by these private interests. We'll do everything we can to > secure a treaty that both protects the access we have now and that > will benefit people with print disabilities around the world--but we > need your help. > > We're asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White > House's website that urges the President to step up his support: - > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/4e4438ce56 > If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House is required to > respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive action. > With your help we know we can reach that number. We also recommend > the petition - > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/f43c9aab46 > /sid=2&reset=1 at the National Federation of the Blind's site, which is > particularly accessible. > > Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our > collective voice can make a real impact. > > If you're interested in more background on the treaty, here are some > articles and resources you can review: > > Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by > private interests: > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/3f5de5c34d > > WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/7e58bb06a5 > > Sincerely, > Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare > > P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social > media to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, > here is the link: - > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/af6f03126e > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From hannahgf88 at gmail.com Mon May 27 17:15:51 2013 From: hannahgf88 at gmail.com (Hannah Furney) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:15:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB national convention roommate Message-ID: <6AFE5778-94B8-4FC9-A588-B920F4D8268A@gmail.com> Hi. We have an extra spot in our room. We are looking for a female. We prefer no partiers please. If interested please email me at hannahgf88 at gmail.com Thanks, Hannah Sent from my iPhone From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon May 27 17:19:11 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 10:19:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: <248321E5-D86D-48F3-876F-6798C55C6B79@aol.com> References: <248321E5-D86D-48F3-876F-6798C55C6B79@aol.com> Message-ID: Hello, Use webvisom. I couldn't understand it either. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Bridget Walker Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 10:09 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help Hi Lucy, Were you able to sign the petition? I keep trying but,mi really can not understand the audio. Bridget Sent from my iPad On May 25, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Lucy Sirianni wrote: > Hi all, > > I apologize if the below has been mentioned on the list before; I glanced > through the archives, but as a new member, I may have missed previous > posts. That said, I think the below is tremendously important for all of > us as blind students, so I wanted to pass it along. Please take a moment > to look at the links and to consider signing both of the petitions. > According to these resources, it's currently the case that less than 1% of > the world's printed books (less than 5% in the US) are accessible to blind > readers; I'm sure we all agree that this is an appalling statistic, and I > hope many of us will be able to support the people working to change it. > > Thanks, everyone! > > Lucy > > ---- Original Message ------ > From: "Bookshare" Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > Date sent: Fri, 24 May 2013 23:49:27 +0000 > > Dear Lucy, > > It's not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt > this situation was so important it was necessary. > > You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving > forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind - > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/8c6ac19ad5 " The > goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for > people who are blind, or have other print disabilities such as > dyslexia, to get access to the books they need for education, > employment and inclusion in society--no matter where they live. It's > something we already do, with great success, in the United States > through Bookshare. > > However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a > way that it would become useless--even harmful. For example, they're > trying to get language adopted that basically says: "if you can buy > it, you can't borrow it." This is not only an attack on people around > the world with print disabilities--it's also an attack on libraries, > like Bookshare, and could have a drastic effect on the number of > books you have access to. > > Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare > from serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We > need our government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library > like Bookshare. > > That's why we're working with a coalition of disability and library > groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the > American Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed > changes by these private interests. We'll do everything we can to > secure a treaty that both protects the access we have now and that > will benefit people with print disabilities around the world--but we > need your help. > > We're asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White > House's website that urges the President to step up his support: - > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/4e4438ce56 > If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House is required to > respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive action. > With your help we know we can reach that number. We also recommend > the petition - > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/f43c9aab46 > /sid=2&reset=1 at the National Federation of the Blind's site, which is > particularly accessible. > > Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our > collective voice can make a real impact. > > If you're interested in more background on the treaty, here are some > articles and resources you can review: > > Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by > private interests: > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/3f5de5c34d > > WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/7e58bb06a5 > > Sincerely, > Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare > > P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social > media to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, > here is the link: - > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/af6f03126e > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 27 17:36:22 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 13:36:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: References: <248321E5-D86D-48F3-876F-6798C55C6B79@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi all, Please do what you can to get past the captia. Even if it means getting sighted assistance, this issue is too important to pass up and they really need all the signatures they can get. On 5/27/13, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Use webvisom. I couldn't understand it either. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Bridget Walker > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 10:09 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > > Hi Lucy, > > Were you able to sign the petition? I keep trying but,mi really can not > understand the audio. > > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 25, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Lucy Sirianni > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I apologize if the below has been mentioned on the list before; I glanced >> >> through the archives, but as a new member, I may have missed previous >> posts. That said, I think the below is tremendously important for all of >> >> us as blind students, so I wanted to pass it along. Please take a moment >> >> to look at the links and to consider signing both of the petitions. >> According to these resources, it's currently the case that less than 1% of >> >> the world's printed books (less than 5% in the US) are accessible to blind >> >> readers; I'm sure we all agree that this is an appalling statistic, and I >> >> hope many of us will be able to support the people working to change it. >> >> Thanks, everyone! >> >> Lucy >> >> ---- Original Message ------ >> From: "Bookshare" > Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >> Date sent: Fri, 24 May 2013 23:49:27 +0000 >> >> Dear Lucy, >> >> It's not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt >> this situation was so important it was necessary. >> >> You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving >> forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind - >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/8c6ac19ad5 " The >> goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for >> people who are blind, or have other print disabilities such as >> dyslexia, to get access to the books they need for education, >> employment and inclusion in society--no matter where they live. It's >> something we already do, with great success, in the United States >> through Bookshare. >> >> However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a >> way that it would become useless--even harmful. For example, they're >> trying to get language adopted that basically says: "if you can buy >> it, you can't borrow it." This is not only an attack on people around >> the world with print disabilities--it's also an attack on libraries, >> like Bookshare, and could have a drastic effect on the number of >> books you have access to. >> >> Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare >> from serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We >> need our government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library >> like Bookshare. >> >> That's why we're working with a coalition of disability and library >> groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the >> American Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed >> changes by these private interests. We'll do everything we can to >> secure a treaty that both protects the access we have now and that >> will benefit people with print disabilities around the world--but we >> need your help. >> >> We're asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White >> House's website that urges the President to step up his support: - >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/4e4438ce56 >> If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House is required to >> respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive action. >> With your help we know we can reach that number. We also recommend >> the petition - >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/f43c9aab46 >> /sid=2&reset=1 at the National Federation of the Blind's site, which is >> particularly accessible. >> >> Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our >> collective voice can make a real impact. >> >> If you're interested in more background on the treaty, here are some >> articles and resources you can review: >> >> Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by >> private interests: >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/3f5de5c34d >> >> WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/7e58bb06a5 >> >> Sincerely, >> Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare >> >> P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social >> media to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, >> here is the link: - >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/af6f03126e >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon May 27 17:41:57 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 13:41:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Okay, now I'm having problems with Google! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: then upgrade to internet explorer 9. We knew since last year google would not be supporting internet explorer 8. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:52 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Okay, now I'm having problems with Google! Good grief! It's telling me, when I'm trying to set up a Google Group, that it doesn't support my browsers, (IE8, or Firefox!) To make things worse, my new server that I switched to for my list, has stopped working for some reason! http://www.fiesta.cc I'm stuck, and don't know where to go! Thanks, Joshua _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Mon May 27 17:48:41 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 17:48:41 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: References: <248321E5-D86D-48F3-876F-6798C55C6B79@aol.com> , Message-ID: Why would Bookshare have a captia? Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kaiti Shelton [crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help Hi all, Please do what you can to get past the captia. Even if it means getting sighted assistance, this issue is too important to pass up and they really need all the signatures they can get. On 5/27/13, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Use webvisom. I couldn't understand it either. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Bridget Walker > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 10:09 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > > Hi Lucy, > > Were you able to sign the petition? I keep trying but,mi really can not > understand the audio. > > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 25, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Lucy Sirianni > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I apologize if the below has been mentioned on the list before; I glanced >> >> through the archives, but as a new member, I may have missed previous >> posts. That said, I think the below is tremendously important for all of >> >> us as blind students, so I wanted to pass it along. Please take a moment >> >> to look at the links and to consider signing both of the petitions. >> According to these resources, it's currently the case that less than 1% of >> >> the world's printed books (less than 5% in the US) are accessible to blind >> >> readers; I'm sure we all agree that this is an appalling statistic, and I >> >> hope many of us will be able to support the people working to change it. >> >> Thanks, everyone! >> >> Lucy >> >> ---- Original Message ------ >> From: "Bookshare" > Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >> Date sent: Fri, 24 May 2013 23:49:27 +0000 >> >> Dear Lucy, >> >> It's not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt >> this situation was so important it was necessary. >> >> You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving >> forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind - >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/8c6ac19ad5 " The >> goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for >> people who are blind, or have other print disabilities such as >> dyslexia, to get access to the books they need for education, >> employment and inclusion in society--no matter where they live. It's >> something we already do, with great success, in the United States >> through Bookshare. >> >> However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a >> way that it would become useless--even harmful. For example, they're >> trying to get language adopted that basically says: "if you can buy >> it, you can't borrow it." This is not only an attack on people around >> the world with print disabilities--it's also an attack on libraries, >> like Bookshare, and could have a drastic effect on the number of >> books you have access to. >> >> Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare >> from serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We >> need our government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library >> like Bookshare. >> >> That's why we're working with a coalition of disability and library >> groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the >> American Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed >> changes by these private interests. We'll do everything we can to >> secure a treaty that both protects the access we have now and that >> will benefit people with print disabilities around the world--but we >> need your help. >> >> We're asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White >> House's website that urges the President to step up his support: - >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/4e4438ce56 >> If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House is required to >> respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive action. >> With your help we know we can reach that number. We also recommend >> the petition - >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/f43c9aab46 >> /sid=2&reset=1 at the National Federation of the Blind's site, which is >> particularly accessible. >> >> Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our >> collective voice can make a real impact. >> >> If you're interested in more background on the treaty, here are some >> articles and resources you can review: >> >> Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by >> private interests: >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/3f5de5c34d >> >> WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/7e58bb06a5 >> >> Sincerely, >> Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare >> >> P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social >> media to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, >> here is the link: - >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/af6f03126e >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon May 27 17:59:45 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 11:59:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: References: <248321E5-D86D-48F3-876F-6798C55C6B79@aol.com> Message-ID: <4C43B444-30D8-4F50-B9B7-337C7F628643@gmail.com> Joshua, They don't.The captcha Is something you encounter when you try and access the White House petition. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Why would Bookshare have a captia? > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kaiti Shelton [crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > > Hi all, > > Please do what you can to get past the captia. Even if it means > getting sighted assistance, this issue is too important to pass up and > they really need all the signatures they can get. > > On 5/27/13, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Use webvisom. I couldn't understand it either. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bridget Walker >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 10:09 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >> >> Hi Lucy, >> >> Were you able to sign the petition? I keep trying but,mi really can not >> understand the audio. >> >> Bridget >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On May 25, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Lucy Sirianni >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I apologize if the below has been mentioned on the list before; I glanced >>> >>> through the archives, but as a new member, I may have missed previous >>> posts. That said, I think the below is tremendously important for all of >>> >>> us as blind students, so I wanted to pass it along. Please take a moment >>> >>> to look at the links and to consider signing both of the petitions. >>> According to these resources, it's currently the case that less than 1% of >>> >>> the world's printed books (less than 5% in the US) are accessible to blind >>> >>> readers; I'm sure we all agree that this is an appalling statistic, and I >>> >>> hope many of us will be able to support the people working to change it. >>> >>> Thanks, everyone! >>> >>> Lucy >>> >>> ---- Original Message ------ >>> From: "Bookshare" >> Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >>> Date sent: Fri, 24 May 2013 23:49:27 +0000 >>> >>> Dear Lucy, >>> >>> It's not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt >>> this situation was so important it was necessary. >>> >>> You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving >>> forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind - >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/8c6ac19ad5 " The >>> goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for >>> people who are blind, or have other print disabilities such as >>> dyslexia, to get access to the books they need for education, >>> employment and inclusion in society--no matter where they live. It's >>> something we already do, with great success, in the United States >>> through Bookshare. >>> >>> However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a >>> way that it would become useless--even harmful. For example, they're >>> trying to get language adopted that basically says: "if you can buy >>> it, you can't borrow it." This is not only an attack on people around >>> the world with print disabilities--it's also an attack on libraries, >>> like Bookshare, and could have a drastic effect on the number of >>> books you have access to. >>> >>> Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare >>> from serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We >>> need our government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library >>> like Bookshare. >>> >>> That's why we're working with a coalition of disability and library >>> groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the >>> American Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed >>> changes by these private interests. We'll do everything we can to >>> secure a treaty that both protects the access we have now and that >>> will benefit people with print disabilities around the world--but we >>> need your help. >>> >>> We're asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White >>> House's website that urges the President to step up his support: - >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/4e4438ce56 >>> If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House is required to >>> respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive action. >>> With your help we know we can reach that number. We also recommend >>> the petition - >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/f43c9aab46 >>> /sid=2&reset=1 at the National Federation of the Blind's site, which is >>> particularly accessible. >>> >>> Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our >>> collective voice can make a real impact. >>> >>> If you're interested in more background on the treaty, here are some >>> articles and resources you can review: >>> >>> Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by >>> private interests: >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/3f5de5c34d >>> >>> WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/7e58bb06a5 >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare >>> >>> P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social >>> media to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, >>> here is the link: - >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/af6f03126e >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Mon May 27 18:06:45 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 18:06:45 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: <4C43B444-30D8-4F50-B9B7-337C7F628643@gmail.com> References: <248321E5-D86D-48F3-876F-6798C55C6B79@aol.com> , <4C43B444-30D8-4F50-B9B7-337C7F628643@gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh! Okay. Thanks for clarifying. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kirt [kirt.crazydude at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help Joshua, They don't.The captcha Is something you encounter when you try and access the White House petition. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Why would Bookshare have a captia? > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kaiti Shelton [crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > > Hi all, > > Please do what you can to get past the captia. Even if it means > getting sighted assistance, this issue is too important to pass up and > they really need all the signatures they can get. > > On 5/27/13, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Use webvisom. I couldn't understand it either. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bridget Walker >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 10:09 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >> >> Hi Lucy, >> >> Were you able to sign the petition? I keep trying but,mi really can not >> understand the audio. >> >> Bridget >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On May 25, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Lucy Sirianni >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I apologize if the below has been mentioned on the list before; I glanced >>> >>> through the archives, but as a new member, I may have missed previous >>> posts. That said, I think the below is tremendously important for all of >>> >>> us as blind students, so I wanted to pass it along. Please take a moment >>> >>> to look at the links and to consider signing both of the petitions. >>> According to these resources, it's currently the case that less than 1% of >>> >>> the world's printed books (less than 5% in the US) are accessible to blind >>> >>> readers; I'm sure we all agree that this is an appalling statistic, and I >>> >>> hope many of us will be able to support the people working to change it. >>> >>> Thanks, everyone! >>> >>> Lucy >>> >>> ---- Original Message ------ >>> From: "Bookshare" >> Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >>> Date sent: Fri, 24 May 2013 23:49:27 +0000 >>> >>> Dear Lucy, >>> >>> It's not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt >>> this situation was so important it was necessary. >>> >>> You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving >>> forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind - >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/8c6ac19ad5 " The >>> goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for >>> people who are blind, or have other print disabilities such as >>> dyslexia, to get access to the books they need for education, >>> employment and inclusion in society--no matter where they live. It's >>> something we already do, with great success, in the United States >>> through Bookshare. >>> >>> However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a >>> way that it would become useless--even harmful. For example, they're >>> trying to get language adopted that basically says: "if you can buy >>> it, you can't borrow it." This is not only an attack on people around >>> the world with print disabilities--it's also an attack on libraries, >>> like Bookshare, and could have a drastic effect on the number of >>> books you have access to. >>> >>> Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare >>> from serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We >>> need our government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library >>> like Bookshare. >>> >>> That's why we're working with a coalition of disability and library >>> groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the >>> American Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed >>> changes by these private interests. We'll do everything we can to >>> secure a treaty that both protects the access we have now and that >>> will benefit people with print disabilities around the world--but we >>> need your help. >>> >>> We're asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White >>> House's website that urges the President to step up his support: - >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/4e4438ce56 >>> If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House is required to >>> respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive action. >>> With your help we know we can reach that number. We also recommend >>> the petition - >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/f43c9aab46 >>> /sid=2&reset=1 at the National Federation of the Blind's site, which is >>> particularly accessible. >>> >>> Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our >>> collective voice can make a real impact. >>> >>> If you're interested in more background on the treaty, here are some >>> articles and resources you can review: >>> >>> Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by >>> private interests: >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/3f5de5c34d >>> >>> WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/7e58bb06a5 >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare >>> >>> P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social >>> media to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, >>> here is the link: - >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/af6f03126e >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From louvins at gmail.com Mon May 27 18:27:00 2013 From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 13:27:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: References: <248321E5-D86D-48F3-876F-6798C55C6B79@aol.com> <4C43B444-30D8-4F50-B9B7-337C7F628643@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello to all. I signed both patitions twice, using different email addresses I have. Yes, I agree, this is extremely important. I did figure out the audio captias although, the first time it did take me a few tries, not as long the second time. Yes, get sighted assistance, whatever you have to do, but please, please sign the patitions. On 5/27/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Oh! > Okay. > Thanks for clarifying. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kirt > [kirt.crazydude at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > > Joshua, > They don't.The captcha Is something you encounter when you try and access > the White House petition. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 27, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Why would Bookshare have a captia? >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kaiti Shelton >> [crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:36 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >> >> Hi all, >> >> Please do what you can to get past the captia. Even if it means >> getting sighted assistance, this issue is too important to pass up and >> they really need all the signatures they can get. >> >> On 5/27/13, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Use webvisom. I couldn't understand it either. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bridget Walker >>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 10:09 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >>> >>> Hi Lucy, >>> >>> Were you able to sign the petition? I keep trying but,mi really can not >>> understand the audio. >>> >>> Bridget >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Lucy Sirianni >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I apologize if the below has been mentioned on the list before; I >>>> glanced >>>> >>>> through the archives, but as a new member, I may have missed previous >>>> posts. That said, I think the below is tremendously important for all >>>> of >>>> >>>> us as blind students, so I wanted to pass it along. Please take a >>>> moment >>>> >>>> to look at the links and to consider signing both of the petitions. >>>> According to these resources, it's currently the case that less than 1% >>>> of >>>> >>>> the world's printed books (less than 5% in the US) are accessible to >>>> blind >>>> >>>> readers; I'm sure we all agree that this is an appalling statistic, and >>>> I >>>> >>>> hope many of us will be able to support the people working to change >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Thanks, everyone! >>>> >>>> Lucy >>>> >>>> ---- Original Message ------ >>>> From: "Bookshare" >>> Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >>>> Date sent: Fri, 24 May 2013 23:49:27 +0000 >>>> >>>> Dear Lucy, >>>> >>>> It's not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt >>>> this situation was so important it was necessary. >>>> >>>> You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving >>>> forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind - >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/8c6ac19ad5 " The >>>> goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for >>>> people who are blind, or have other print disabilities such as >>>> dyslexia, to get access to the books they need for education, >>>> employment and inclusion in society--no matter where they live. It's >>>> something we already do, with great success, in the United States >>>> through Bookshare. >>>> >>>> However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a >>>> way that it would become useless--even harmful. For example, they're >>>> trying to get language adopted that basically says: "if you can buy >>>> it, you can't borrow it." This is not only an attack on people around >>>> the world with print disabilities--it's also an attack on libraries, >>>> like Bookshare, and could have a drastic effect on the number of >>>> books you have access to. >>>> >>>> Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare >>>> from serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We >>>> need our government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library >>>> like Bookshare. >>>> >>>> That's why we're working with a coalition of disability and library >>>> groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the >>>> American Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed >>>> changes by these private interests. We'll do everything we can to >>>> secure a treaty that both protects the access we have now and that >>>> will benefit people with print disabilities around the world--but we >>>> need your help. >>>> >>>> We're asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White >>>> House's website that urges the President to step up his support: - >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/4e4438ce56 >>>> If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House is required to >>>> respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive action. >>>> With your help we know we can reach that number. We also recommend >>>> the petition - >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/f43c9aab46 >>>> /sid=2&reset=1 at the National Federation of the Blind's site, which >>>> is >>>> particularly accessible. >>>> >>>> Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our >>>> collective voice can make a real impact. >>>> >>>> If you're interested in more background on the treaty, here are some >>>> articles and resources you can review: >>>> >>>> Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by >>>> private interests: >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/3f5de5c34d >>>> >>>> WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/7e58bb06a5 >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare >>>> >>>> P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social >>>> media to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, >>>> here is the link: - >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Benetech/39440e0084/377977e221/af6f03126e >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com > -- Joshua T Hendrickson From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon May 27 18:42:52 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:42:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Attending CCB In-Reply-To: <563BC7A3D27D4A4FB8B1C9B946AFB336@acerd37f251f21> References: <563BC7A3D27D4A4FB8B1C9B946AFB336@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: Hi Misty, I did not attend CCB, but I attended LCB which is fairly similar. I too was living on my own and even traveled abroad for a semester before attending the center, but I still think it made a big difference in my life. I'd encourage you to join the CCB-Alumni list on NFBNet to talk with people who have been through CCB about your specific questions. Also, I know of a parent who is planning to come to CCB with her four-year-old daughter and they have worked it out so she and her daughter can live in an apartment all by themselves at the center complex. Her daughter, too, will attend daycare during the CCB class time. Best of luck, Arielle On 5/24/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi all, > Have any of you attended the Colorado Center for the Blind, and how were > your experiences there? > I am considering attending next year after I finish my associates degree but > am researching to find out if it is the best place for me. I have lived on > my own for about 6 years now and can travel and use public transportation, > but I probably could use some improvement in some areas and also would like > to improve job and career skills. > Do you think the center is mainly for those that are newly on their own or > just become blind, or do you think that someone that has been blind from > birth and on their own for some time could also benefit from attending CCB? > I attended a center in a different state that was not an NFB center, but I > felt that it was not the right place for me and did not complete my term > there. > Also, if you have children, can you still live in the center's apartments, > or do you have to just be a day student and live outside of the center's > housing? I am wondering, because I am a single mother of a 5-year-old, so I > would have to figure out how that is done as far as housing. I would also > have child care worked out in advance, so that wouldn't be an issue during > the day while I am in classes at the center, but I definitely need to find > out about living in the center's apartments with a child. > Also, I am out-of-state, and I am wondering how people here have convinced > their state's vocational rehab to help them attend the center? I have not > brought it up with my state's vocational rehab yet because I am still > researching about the center and the Denver Area in general. If I plan to > attend during the summer or fall of next year, how soon should I bring it up > with Vocational Rehab here in North Carolina? > Thank you, > Misty > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon May 27 19:22:04 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:22:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] making Spotify Completely accessible Message-ID: <4563D9BAF1A54CA1A441003128D19DF5@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, There is a campaign to increase accessibility to Spotify, the music streaming app at: http://www.applevis.com/campaign Their main focus is apple products, but they talk about the accessibility of PCs and the other platforms as well. Spotify allows us students to listen to thousands of songs a month, for free if we don’t mind streaming constantly and commercials, or if we pay $10 a month, we can download music to our phone and listen to music nonstop. Especially as a music student, Spotify is a dream come true. I am required to listen to lots of music for my major, and was starting to look a little askance at my rather large monthly Amazon bill before I found out about Spotify. There are currently JFW scripts at: http://www.spotifyblind.com/ that work somewhat, but Spotify keeps changing and breaking the scripts. Apparently though, Apple computers are completely out of luck when accessing the program. If enough people request Spotify pay attention to blind users, we can get this phenomenal music streaming service accessible! http://www.applevis.com/campaign Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs From annajee82 at gmail.com Mon May 27 21:45:26 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 17:45:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com> References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0192AF67-EC75-48B5-A1AD-64B8281A5AF5@gmail.com> I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to offend. Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer wrote: > The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at this interracial gay couple. > > When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he asks me a very important question. > > “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” > > Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. > > Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common one in the blindness community. > > “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” > > When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. > > Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with HIV and aids as well. > > I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. > > A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. > > When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. > > I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well as me in the future. > > I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. > > When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end these “offensive questions.” > > The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever give. > > If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. > > /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other writing archives > */ > > *Click here to view my resume* > > > * > * > > *Click here to see my writing archive * > > *Click here to view my website/ > / * > > */ > /* > > */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * > *Tel: 850 764 2161 * > > Facebook Twitter LinkedIn YouTube WordPress Blog RSS > My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance > My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long Will I Cry? (play) > WordPress My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news > Read more | My blog > Share on Facebook  Share on Twitter > > Get this email app! > > Designed with WiseStamp - Get yours > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Mon May 27 21:53:25 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 17:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <0192AF67-EC75-48B5-A1AD-64B8281A5AF5@gmail.com> References: <0192AF67-EC75-48B5-A1AD-64B8281A5AF5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D0293BBFADB8C6-D24-26712@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> I get similar questions like "If you are blind how do you march in a marching band?" "How do you use Facebook?" I have never thought of them as offensive thought because I would be asking the same thing if I were in the shoes of those who ask me such questions. I think it's important that we have an open mind and be equipped to explain and share. -----Original Message----- From: Anna Givens To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to offend. Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer wrote: > The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at this interracial gay couple. > > When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he asks me a very important question. > > “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” > > Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. > > Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common one in the blindness community. > > “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” > > When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. > > Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with HIV and aids as well. > > I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. > > A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. > > When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. > > I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well as me in the future. > > I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. > > When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end these “offensive questions.” > > The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever give. > > If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. > > /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other writing archives > */ > > *Click here to view my resume* > > > * > * > > *Click here to see my writing archive * > > *Click here to view my website/ > / * > > */ > /* > > */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * > *Tel: 850 764 2161 * > > Facebook Twitter LinkedIn YouTube WordPress Blog RSS > My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance > My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long Will I Cry? (play) > WordPress My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news > Read more | My blog > Share on Facebook  Share on Twitter > > Get this email app! > > Designed with WiseStamp - Get yours > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From annajee82 at gmail.com Mon May 27 21:56:18 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 17:56:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: References: <39440e0084-kathrynwebster=me.com@mail.vresp.com> <6FCD9BDD-90D6-4EFD-B6E8-6659274B3258@me.com> Message-ID: How is this different than the petition on nfb.org site? Anna Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2013, at 12:46 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > I discovered that you have to create an account to sign the petition. > You must know that there is a captcha that has to be solved in order to > create an account. > *frustrated sigh* > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson > facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > skype: lissa5674 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathryn Webster" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:56 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > > > Please create an account and sign this petition to help us! It only takes > two minutes and its focus is us :) thank you. > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Bookshare >> Date: May 24, 2013, 8:05:59 PM EDT >> To: kathrynwebster at me.com >> Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >> Reply-To: Bookshare >> >> Dear Bookshare Supporter, >> >> It’s not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt this >> situation was so important it was necessary. >> >> You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving >> forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind." The >> goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for people who are >> blind, or have other print disabilities such as dyslexia, to get access to >> the books they need for education, employment and inclusion in society—no >> matter where they live. It's something we already do, with great success, >> in the United States through Bookshare. >> >> However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a way >> that it would become useless—even harmful. For example, they’re trying to >> get language adopted that basically says: “if you can buy it, you can’t >> borrow it.” This is not only an attack on people around the world with >> print disabilities—it’s also an attack on libraries, like Bookshare, and >> could have a drastic effect on the number of books you have access to. >> >> Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare from >> serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We need our >> government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library like >> Bookshare. >> >> That’s why we’re working with a coalition of disability and library >> groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the American >> Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed changes by these >> private interests. We’ll do everything we can to secure a treaty that both >> protects the access we have now and that will benefit people with print >> disabilities around the world—but we need your help. >> >> We’re asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White House’s >> website that urges the President to step up his support: >> http://ow.ly/lkJVs. If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House >> is required to respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive >> action. With your help we know we can reach that number. We also >> recommend the petition at the National Federation of the Blind’s site, >> which is particularly accessible. >> >> Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our >> collective voice can make a real impact. >> >> If you’re interested in more background on the treaty, here are some >> articles and resources you can review: >> Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by >> private interests: >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-fruchterman/poisoning-the-treaty-for-_b_3225181.html >> WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: >> http://ow.ly/lfP15 >> >> Sincerely, >> Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare >> >> P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social media >> to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, here is the >> link: http://ow.ly/lkJVs. >> >> Note: this advocacy effort by Benetech, the nonprofit organization that >> operates Bookshare, has not been supported or endorsed by Bookshare >> funders, including the U.S. Department of Education. >> >> >> Click to view this email in a browser >> >> If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this >> message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the >> following link: Unsubscribe >> Benetech >> 480 S. California Ave., Suite 201 >> Palo Alto, California 94306 >> US >> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Mon May 27 22:08:07 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 18:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D0293DCD1394E7-D24-267B3@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> This is for making president Obama be aware of the issue. I signed both so both blind community and White House community can have my signature. Miso -----Original Message----- From: Anna Givens To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 3:05 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help How is this different than the petition on nfb.org site? Anna Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2013, at 12:46 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > I discovered that you have to create an account to sign the petition. > You must know that there is a captcha that has to be solved in order to > create an account. > *frustrated sigh* > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson > facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > skype: lissa5674 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathryn Webster" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:56 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > > > Please create an account and sign this petition to help us! It only takes > two minutes and its focus is us :) thank you. > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Bookshare >> Date: May 24, 2013, 8:05:59 PM EDT >> To: kathrynwebster at me.com >> Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >> Reply-To: Bookshare >> >> Dear Bookshare Supporter, >> >> It’s not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt this >> situation was so important it was necessary. >> >> You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been moving >> forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind." The >> goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for people who are >> blind, or have other print disabilities such as dyslexia, to get access to >> the books they need for education, employment and inclusion in society—no >> matter where they live. It's something we already do, with great success, >> in the United States through Bookshare. >> >> However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a way >> that it would become useless—even harmful. For example, they’re trying to >> get language adopted that basically says: “if you can buy it, you can’t >> borrow it.” This is not only an attack on people around the world with >> print disabilities—it’s also an attack on libraries, like Bookshare, and >> could have a drastic effect on the number of books you have access to. >> >> Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop Bookshare from >> serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We need our >> government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library like >> Bookshare. >> >> That’s why we’re working with a coalition of disability and library >> groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the American >> Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed changes by these >> private interests. We’ll do everything we can to secure a treaty that both >> protects the access we have now and that will benefit people with print >> disabilities around the world—but we need your help. >> >> We’re asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White House’s >> website that urges the President to step up his support: >> http://ow.ly/lkJVs. If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White House >> is required to respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take positive >> action. With your help we know we can reach that number. We also >> recommend the petition at the National Federation of the Blind’s site, >> which is particularly accessible. >> >> Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our >> collective voice can make a real impact. >> >> If you’re interested in more background on the treaty, here are some >> articles and resources you can review: >> Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by >> private interests: >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-fruchterman/poisoning-the-treaty-for-_b_3225181.html >> WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: >> http://ow.ly/lfP15 >> >> Sincerely, >> Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare >> >> P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social media >> to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, here is the >> link: http://ow.ly/lkJVs. >> >> Note: this advocacy effort by Benetech, the nonprofit organization that >> operates Bookshare, has not been supported or endorsed by Bookshare >> funders, including the U.S. Department of Education. >> >> >> Click to view this email in a browser >> >> If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this >> message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the >> following link: Unsubscribe >> Benetech >> 480 S. California Ave., Suite 201 >> Palo Alto, California 94306 >> US >> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon May 27 22:16:37 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 18:16:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: <8D0293DCD1394E7-D24-267B3@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D0293DCD1394E7-D24-267B3@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0B10F843-D154-4418-8CD3-9808F9DDE8CF@gmail.com> I'm not sure but I think both petitions will still go to the same place. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2013, at 6:08 PM, Miso Kwak wrote: > This is for making president Obama be aware of the issue. > I signed both so both blind community and White House community can have my signature. > Miso > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anna Givens > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 3:05 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help > > How is this different than the petition on nfb.org site? > > Anna > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 27, 2013, at 12:46 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > >> I discovered that you have to create an account to sign the petition. >> You must know that there is a captcha that has to be solved in order > to >> create an account. >> *frustrated sigh* >> Sincerely, >> Melissa and Pj >> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson >> facebook Melissa R Green >> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >> skype: lissa5674 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kathryn Webster" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:56 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >> >> >> Please create an account and sign this petition to help us! It only > takes >> two minutes and its focus is us :) thank you. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: Bookshare >>> Date: May 24, 2013, 8:05:59 PM EDT >>> To: kathrynwebster at me.com >>> Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >>> Reply-To: Bookshare > >>> >>> Dear Bookshare Supporter, >>> >>> It’s not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt > this >>> situation was so important it was necessary. >>> >>> You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been > moving >>> forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind." > The >>> goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for people > who are >>> blind, or have other print disabilities such as dyslexia, to get > access to >>> the books they need for education, employment and inclusion in > society—no >>> matter where they live. It's something we already do, with great > success, >>> in the United States through Bookshare. >>> >>> However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a > way >>> that it would become useless—even harmful. For example, they’re > trying to >>> get language adopted that basically says: “if you can buy it, you > can’t >>> borrow it.” This is not only an attack on people around the world > with >>> print disabilities—it’s also an attack on libraries, like Bookshare, > and >>> could have a drastic effect on the number of books you have access > to. >>> >>> Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop > Bookshare from >>> serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We need > our >>> government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library like >>> Bookshare. >>> >>> That’s why we’re working with a coalition of disability and library >>> groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the > American >>> Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed changes by > these >>> private interests. We’ll do everything we can to secure a treaty > that both >>> protects the access we have now and that will benefit people with > print >>> disabilities around the world—but we need your help. >>> >>> We’re asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White > House’s >>> website that urges the President to step up his support: >>> http://ow.ly/lkJVs. If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White > House >>> is required to respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take > positive >>> action. With your help we know we can reach that number. We also >>> recommend the petition at the National Federation of the Blind’s > site, >>> which is particularly accessible. >>> >>> Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our >>> collective voice can make a real impact. >>> >>> If you’re interested in more background on the treaty, here are some >>> articles and resources you can review: >>> Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by >>> private interests: > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-fruchterman/poisoning-the-treaty-for-_b_3225181.html >>> WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: >>> http://ow.ly/lfP15 >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare >>> >>> P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social > media >>> to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, here > is the >>> link: http://ow.ly/lkJVs. >>> >>> Note: this advocacy effort by Benetech, the nonprofit organization > that >>> operates Bookshare, has not been supported or endorsed by Bookshare >>> funders, including the U.S. Department of Education. >>> >>> >>> Click to view this email in a browser >>> >>> If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this >>> message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on > the >>> following link: Unsubscribe >>> Benetech >>> 480 S. California Ave., Suite 201 >>> Palo Alto, California 94306 >>> US >>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon May 27 22:19:51 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 18:19:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] formatting and printing from braille note Message-ID: <64EFDF32EC27468986B97341D390DA88@OwnerPC> Hi all, The braille note manual isn’t always that helpful. So can anyone give me pointers? I’d like to put some print formating indicators in my keysoft files; note its written in braille, not a text file. Its my understanding you can put format indicators in the documents though. I’d like to have a heading meaning a bold centered line, and then subheadings for topics. These are bold lines of text separated by blank lines in print. I saw the heading style indicator written as a dollar sign h. Nothing for subheading though. How would I put the headings and subheading markers in? I cannot figure out how you’d make the heading indicator end, unless its simply pressing enter twice to make blank lines. Next, how do I print a document? I plan to print via the usb port. Any special cable I need, or just a standard one? Also, do I just set up the page dimensions on the braille note? I don’t have to install any software or files to print, do i? Thanks. Ashley From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon May 27 22:22:40 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 18:22:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] using active synch on braille note Message-ID: <9416FD778C2D4231A0C2148920C9653E@OwnerPC> Hi all, I’ve not used active sync with the braille note, but considered it as I’d like to manage files from the pc and see what is on the braille note. I also think it would be easier to move and delete files via the pc as opposed to the braille note. Do I use active sync with windows 7 or the other program, wmdc, I think its called? If using active sync what do you do with it and what are the benefits? Thanks. Ashley From kathrynwebster at me.com Mon May 27 22:50:16 2013 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kathryn Webster) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 18:50:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] formatting and printing from braille note In-Reply-To: <64EFDF32EC27468986B97341D390DA88@OwnerPC> References: <64EFDF32EC27468986B97341D390DA88@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <3A3904CD-1C03-418C-B25C-D9E56EFB9871@me.com> Hello, you do not need any special CD discs or anything to print, just a simple USB cord and no need to set up paper headings or lining. just go to the print menu in the Braille note and press enter Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2013, at 6:19 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > The braille note manual isn’t always that helpful. > > So can anyone give me pointers? > > I’d like to put some print formating indicators in my keysoft files; note its written in braille, not a text file. > Its my understanding you can put format indicators in the documents though. I’d like to have a heading meaning a bold centered line, and then subheadings for topics. These are bold lines of text separated by blank lines in print. > > I saw the heading style indicator written as a dollar sign h. Nothing for subheading though. How would I put the headings and subheading markers in? I cannot figure out how you’d make the heading indicator end, unless its simply pressing enter twice to make blank lines. > > Next, how do I print a document? I plan to print via the usb port. Any special cable I need, or just a standard one? > Also, do I just set up the page dimensions on the braille note? I don’t have to install any software or files to print, do i? > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 27 23:28:28 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:28:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: <0B10F843-D154-4418-8CD3-9808F9DDE8CF@gmail.com> References: <8D0293DCD1394E7-D24-267B3@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> <0B10F843-D154-4418-8CD3-9808F9DDE8CF@gmail.com> Message-ID: They're both important. The one on the NFB site is a collective ACB and NFB effort so that when they go to bat they can say they have X thousand amount of people in support of the cause. The one on the Whitehouse site will require that the congressional leaders close to Obama and Obama himself look at the issue, but we need 100,000 signatures in order for that to happen. They're both important and will eventually go to the same place, but getting the direct attention of the Whitehouse will only strengthen the NFB and ACB's efforts. On 5/27/13, Josh Gregory wrote: > I'm not sure but I think both petitions will still go to the same place. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 27, 2013, at 6:08 PM, Miso Kwak wrote: > >> This is for making president Obama be aware of the issue. >> I signed both so both blind community and White House community can have >> my signature. >> Miso >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anna Givens >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 3:05 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >> >> How is this different than the petition on nfb.org site? >> >> Anna >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 27, 2013, at 12:46 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: >> >>> I discovered that you have to create an account to sign the petition. >>> You must know that there is a captcha that has to be solved in order >> to >>> create an account. >>> *frustrated sigh* >>> Sincerely, >>> Melissa and Pj >>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson >>> facebook Melissa R Green >>> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>> skype: lissa5674 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kathryn Webster" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:56 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >>> >>> >>> Please create an account and sign this petition to help us! It only >> takes >>> two minutes and its focus is us :) thank you. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>> From: Bookshare >>>> Date: May 24, 2013, 8:05:59 PM EDT >>>> To: kathrynwebster at me.com >>>> Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >>>> Reply-To: Bookshare >> >>>> >>>> Dear Bookshare Supporter, >>>> >>>> It’s not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt >> this >>>> situation was so important it was necessary. >>>> >>>> You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been >> moving >>>> forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind." >> The >>>> goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for people >> who are >>>> blind, or have other print disabilities such as dyslexia, to get >> access to >>>> the books they need for education, employment and inclusion in >> society—no >>>> matter where they live. It's something we already do, with great >> success, >>>> in the United States through Bookshare. >>>> >>>> However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a >> way >>>> that it would become useless—even harmful. For example, they’re >> trying to >>>> get language adopted that basically says: “if you can buy it, you >> can’t >>>> borrow it.” This is not only an attack on people around the world >> with >>>> print disabilities—it’s also an attack on libraries, like Bookshare, >> and >>>> could have a drastic effect on the number of books you have access >> to. >>>> >>>> Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop >> Bookshare from >>>> serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We need >> our >>>> government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library like >>>> Bookshare. >>>> >>>> That’s why we’re working with a coalition of disability and library >>>> groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the >> American >>>> Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed changes by >> these >>>> private interests. We’ll do everything we can to secure a treaty >> that both >>>> protects the access we have now and that will benefit people with >> print >>>> disabilities around the world—but we need your help. >>>> >>>> We’re asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White >> House’s >>>> website that urges the President to step up his support: >>>> http://ow.ly/lkJVs. If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White >> House >>>> is required to respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take >> positive >>>> action. With your help we know we can reach that number. We also >>>> recommend the petition at the National Federation of the Blind’s >> site, >>>> which is particularly accessible. >>>> >>>> Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our >>>> collective voice can make a real impact. >>>> >>>> If you’re interested in more background on the treaty, here are some >>>> articles and resources you can review: >>>> Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by >>>> private interests: >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-fruchterman/poisoning-the-treaty-for-_b_3225181.html >>>> WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: >>>> http://ow.ly/lfP15 >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare >>>> >>>> P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social >> media >>>> to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, here >> is the >>>> link: http://ow.ly/lkJVs. >>>> >>>> Note: this advocacy effort by Benetech, the nonprofit organization >> that >>>> operates Bookshare, has not been supported or endorsed by Bookshare >>>> funders, including the U.S. Department of Education. >>>> >>>> >>>> Click to view this email in a browser >>>> >>>> If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this >>>> message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on >> the >>>> following link: Unsubscribe >>>> Benetech >>>> 480 S. California Ave., Suite 201 >>>> Palo Alto, California 94306 >>>> US >>>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Mon May 27 23:30:57 2013 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:30:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] using active synch on braille note In-Reply-To: <9416FD778C2D4231A0C2148920C9653E@OwnerPC> References: <9416FD778C2D4231A0C2148920C9653E@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I tried to use active sync to synchronize files with windows 7 but, I found it impossible to set up a partnership. The partnership would be set and I would sync for the first time but, any time after I had to reestablish the partnership. I now use sync center and love it. Just know it is a little challenging at times to navigate with jaws but, it works fine. I have used both softwares with the brailleNote apex and the PACmate Omni and sync center was my favorite. I hope this helps. Best, Bridget Sent from my iPad On May 27, 2013, at 6:22 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi all, > > I’ve not used active sync with the braille note, but considered it as I’d like to manage files from the pc and see what is on the braille note. I also think it would be easier to move and delete files via the pc as opposed to the braille note. > > Do I use active sync with windows 7 or the other program, wmdc, I think its called? > If using active sync what do you do with it and what are the benefits? > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon May 27 23:34:56 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:34:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help In-Reply-To: References: <8D0293DCD1394E7-D24-267B3@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> <0B10F843-D154-4418-8CD3-9808F9DDE8CF@gmail.com> Message-ID: I see, it might be worth looking into webvisum for this then. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > They're both important. The one on the NFB site is a collective ACB > and NFB effort so that when they go to bat they can say they have X > thousand amount of people in support of the cause. The one on the > Whitehouse site will require that the congressional leaders close to > Obama and Obama himself look at the issue, but we need 100,000 > signatures in order for that to happen. They're both important and > will eventually go to the same place, but getting the direct attention > of the Whitehouse will only strengthen the NFB and ACB's efforts. > > On 5/27/13, Josh Gregory wrote: >> I'm not sure but I think both petitions will still go to the same place. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 27, 2013, at 6:08 PM, Miso Kwak wrote: >> >>> This is for making president Obama be aware of the issue. >>> I signed both so both blind community and White House community can have >>> my signature. >>> Miso >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anna Givens >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 3:05 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >>> >>> How is this different than the petition on nfb.org site? >>> >>> Anna >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 27, 2013, at 12:46 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: >>> >>>> I discovered that you have to create an account to sign the petition. >>>> You must know that there is a captcha that has to be solved in order >>> to >>>> create an account. >>>> *frustrated sigh* >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Melissa and Pj >>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson >>>> facebook Melissa R Green >>>> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Kathryn Webster" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:56 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >>>> >>>> >>>> Please create an account and sign this petition to help us! It only >>> takes >>>> two minutes and its focus is us :) thank you. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>>> From: Bookshare >>>>> Date: May 24, 2013, 8:05:59 PM EDT >>>>> To: kathrynwebster at me.com >>>>> Subject: URGENT: Bookshare Needs Your Help >>>>> Reply-To: Bookshare >>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear Bookshare Supporter, >>>>> >>>>> It’s not typical for us to send you an email like this, but we felt >>> this >>>>> situation was so important it was necessary. >>>>> >>>>> You may already be aware, but for years negotiations have been >>> moving >>>>> forward on what many have come to call the "Treaty for the Blind." >>> The >>>>> goal of the international treaty is to make it possible for people >>> who are >>>>> blind, or have other print disabilities such as dyslexia, to get >>> access to >>>>> the books they need for education, employment and inclusion in >>> society—no >>>>> matter where they live. It's something we already do, with great >>> success, >>>>> in the United States through Bookshare. >>>>> >>>>> However, private interests are trying to alter the treaty in such a >>> way >>>>> that it would become useless—even harmful. For example, they’re >>> trying to >>>>> get language adopted that basically says: “if you can buy it, you >>> can’t >>>>> borrow it.” This is not only an attack on people around the world >>> with >>>>> print disabilities—it’s also an attack on libraries, like Bookshare, >>> and >>>>> could have a drastic effect on the number of books you have access >>> to. >>>>> >>>>> Our biggest worry is this becoming a treaty that could stop >>> Bookshare from >>>>> serving our users in the United States the way we do today. We need >>> our >>>>> government negotiating for a treaty that supports a library like >>>>> Bookshare. >>>>> >>>>> That’s why we’re working with a coalition of disability and library >>>>> groups, including the National Federation of the Blind and the >>> American >>>>> Council of the Blind, to fight back against the proposed changes by >>> these >>>>> private interests. We’ll do everything we can to secure a treaty >>> that both >>>>> protects the access we have now and that will benefit people with >>> print >>>>> disabilities around the world—but we need your help. >>>>> >>>>> We’re asking you to take a moment to sign a petition on the White >>> House’s >>>>> website that urges the President to step up his support: >>>>> http://ow.ly/lkJVs. If we can get to 100,000 signatures, the White >>> House >>>>> is required to respond to the petition and will, hopefully, take >>> positive >>>>> action. With your help we know we can reach that number. We also >>>>> recommend the petition at the National Federation of the Blind’s >>> site, >>>>> which is particularly accessible. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your time and support. Together, we believe that our >>>>> collective voice can make a real impact. >>>>> >>>>> If you’re interested in more background on the treaty, here are some >>>>> articles and resources you can review: >>>>> Huffington Post piece by Jim on how the treaty is being poisoned by >>>>> private interests: >>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-fruchterman/poisoning-the-treaty-for-_b_3225181.html >>>>> WIRED Magazine article that gives some recent updates on the treaty: >>>>> http://ow.ly/lfP15 >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Jim Fruchterman & Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare >>>>> >>>>> P.S. Please post the link to the White House petition on your social >>> media >>>>> to help spread the word and get your friends involved! Again, here >>> is the >>>>> link: http://ow.ly/lkJVs. >>>>> >>>>> Note: this advocacy effort by Benetech, the nonprofit organization >>> that >>>>> operates Bookshare, has not been supported or endorsed by Bookshare >>>>> funders, including the U.S. Department of Education. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Click to view this email in a browser >>>>> >>>>> If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this >>>>> message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on >>> the >>>>> following link: Unsubscribe >>>>> Benetech >>>>> 480 S. California Ave., Suite 201 >>>>> Palo Alto, California 94306 >>>>> US >>>>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon May 27 23:36:29 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:36:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <8D0293BBFADB8C6-D24-26712@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> References: <0192AF67-EC75-48B5-A1AD-64B8281A5AF5@gmail.com> <8D0293BBFADB8C6-D24-26712@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Miso, I agree. I will admit when I was younger and less secure with myself I was self-conscious about those questions because to me it signified that I was different, but I've found that no one will learn anything from us if we're too scared or insecure to teach them about us. And that's the best thing of all, when someone learns that we can do things like march in band, use facebook, and other stuff just in different ways. Then sight vs blindness isn't that big of an issue because they have a better understanding of it. And most of the time when someone you're close to like a friend or a date asks a question like that they really don't mean to be offensive anyway. Usually they're just curious so it's important to remember that too instead of being quick to assume that there was something underhanded in asking how a notetaker works or what it's like to use a cane. On 5/27/13, Miso Kwak wrote: > I get similar questions like "If you are blind how do you march in a > marching band?" "How do you use Facebook?" > I have never thought of them as offensive thought because I would be > asking the same thing if I were in the shoes of those who ask me such > questions. > I think it's important that we have an open mind and be equipped to > explain and share. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anna Givens > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that > people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to offend. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer > wrote: > >> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite > each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate > right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the > baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men > and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in > the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with > deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony > accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in > conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at > this interracial gay couple. >> >> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a > teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like > rain, he asks me a very important question. >> >> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >> >> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of > creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it > were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive > sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize > that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille > display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a > computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never > was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm > blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer > all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut > instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he > can be if I just teach him. >> >> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech > synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is > uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted > people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like > sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted > people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question > that's become a common one in the blindness community. >> >> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >> >> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted > point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness > ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows > everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t > know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >> >> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking > the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled > community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this > applies to people with HIV and aids as well. >> >> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets > offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they > exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed > off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't > even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >> >> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even > today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and > acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV > community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a > good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That > divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked > ourselves at one point. >> >> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered > if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field > reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am > I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured > out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past > mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't > have figured out the answer. >> >> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find > out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now > how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an > answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, > then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help > someone else as well as me in the future. >> >> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to > a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along > with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and > soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't > just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are > a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not > visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and > others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. >> >> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t > want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a > computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in > different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the > only way to end these “offensive questions.” >> >> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date > lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've > never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, > and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re > together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming > together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very > long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education > I could ever give. >> >> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice > then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. > Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we > can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open > wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where > we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality > and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a > beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this > positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. >> >> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other > writing archives >> */ >> >> *Click here to view my resume* >> > ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >> >> * >> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >> >> *Click here to see my writing archive > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >> >> *Click here to view my website/ >> / > * >> >> */ >> /* >> >> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >> >> Facebook > kingett> Twitter > ter> LinkedIn > ngettr> YouTube > ingettspeaks> WordPress > s.com%2F> Blog RSS > om%2Ffeed%2F> >> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance > ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- > theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How > Long Will I Cry? (play) > com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% > 2F> >> WordPress > s.com%2F> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & > other news > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >> Read more > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| My > blog > s.com%2F> >> Share on Facebook > php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 > F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F>  Share on > Twitter > eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 > 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >> >> Get this email app! > Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor > dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >> > ngettr> >> Designed with WiseStamp - > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 > %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ > source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ > 10>Get yours > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 > %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ > source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ > 10> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon May 27 23:48:41 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:48:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <8D0293BBFADB8C6-D24-26712@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> References: <0192AF67-EC75-48B5-A1AD-64B8281A5AF5@gmail.com> <8D0293BBFADB8C6-D24-26712@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi, I agree with what has been said here so far. Sighted people often don't know how they would do something if they were blind. to them, sight is 95% of their existance. I don't get offended by questions such as how I use a computer, or how I travel independently. Those kind of questions make sense, once you put yourself in their shoes. For the average, nondisabled person, any kind of disability is paralyzingly frightening. It's better to ease their minds, which will, hopefully, help them to understand what's possible for a blind person to accomplish. If you remove the fear from a situation, it allows for more clear thinking. what I have little tolerance for are the truly ignorant questions, like how do you eat when You can't see? Or how do you go to the bathroom? Now, come on. the average sighted person knows that they're not watching their mouths while they eat, or watching behind them after they take care of their business. Those kind of questions are idiotic, and should be dealt with accordingly. Besides, I don't think a sighted person would dare ask just any random stranger those questions, regardless of what they felt the person's abilities and limits were. How is it all right for people to cross those boundaries just because a person is blind? I feel violated when a perfect stranger asks me questions like that out of the blue. On 5/27/13, Miso Kwak wrote: > I get similar questions like "If you are blind how do you march in a > marching band?" "How do you use Facebook?" > I have never thought of them as offensive thought because I would be > asking the same thing if I were in the shoes of those who ask me such > questions. > I think it's important that we have an open mind and be equipped to > explain and share. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anna Givens > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that > people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to offend. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer > wrote: > >> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite > each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate > right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the > baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men > and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in > the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with > deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony > accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in > conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at > this interracial gay couple. >> >> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a > teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like > rain, he asks me a very important question. >> >> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >> >> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of > creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it > were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive > sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize > that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille > display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a > computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never > was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm > blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer > all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut > instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he > can be if I just teach him. >> >> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech > synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is > uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted > people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like > sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted > people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question > that's become a common one in the blindness community. >> >> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >> >> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted > point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness > ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows > everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t > know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >> >> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking > the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled > community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this > applies to people with HIV and aids as well. >> >> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets > offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they > exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed > off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't > even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >> >> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even > today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and > acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV > community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a > good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That > divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked > ourselves at one point. >> >> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered > if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field > reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am > I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured > out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past > mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't > have figured out the answer. >> >> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find > out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now > how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an > answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, > then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help > someone else as well as me in the future. >> >> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to > a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along > with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and > soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't > just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are > a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not > visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and > others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. >> >> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t > want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a > computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in > different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the > only way to end these “offensive questions.” >> >> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date > lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've > never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, > and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re > together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming > together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very > long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education > I could ever give. >> >> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice > then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. > Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we > can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open > wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where > we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality > and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a > beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this > positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. >> >> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other > writing archives >> */ >> >> *Click here to view my resume* >> > ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >> >> * >> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >> >> *Click here to see my writing archive > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >> >> *Click here to view my website/ >> / > * >> >> */ >> /* >> >> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >> >> Facebook > kingett> Twitter > ter> LinkedIn > ngettr> YouTube > ingettspeaks> WordPress > s.com%2F> Blog RSS > om%2Ffeed%2F> >> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance > ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- > theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How > Long Will I Cry? (play) > com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% > 2F> >> WordPress > s.com%2F> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & > other news > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >> Read more > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| My > blog > s.com%2F> >> Share on Facebook > php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 > F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F>  Share on > Twitter > eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 > 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >> >> Get this email app! > Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor > dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >> > ngettr> >> Designed with WiseStamp - > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 > %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ > source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ > 10>Get yours > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 > %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ > source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ > 10> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From jsoro620 at gmail.com Mon May 27 23:52:31 2013 From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:52:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com> References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL Just to chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird writer Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at this interracial gay couple. When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he asks me a very important question. “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common one in the blindness community. “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with HIV and aids as well. I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well as me in the future. I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end these “offensive questions.” The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever give. If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other writing archives */ *Click here to view my resume* * * *Click here to see my writing archive * *Click here to view my website/ / * */ /* */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * *Tel: 850 764 2161 * Facebook Twitter LinkedIn YouTube WordPress Blog RSS My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long Will I Cry? (play) WordPress My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news Read more | My blog Share on Facebook  Share on Twitter Get this email app! Designed with WiseStamp - Get yours _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 28 00:42:42 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 18:42:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com> <005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already believe we can't do something and answering their question about how we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have at times. I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always stumped when some stranger tells me I am amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? Arielle On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: > Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL Just to > chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm > sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird > writer > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each > other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a > woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she > missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us making > their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and my > date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I > gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter > dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, > stare at this interracial gay couple. > > When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. > With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he asks > me a very important question. > > “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” > > Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping > towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a > chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted person > away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never seen > adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's > certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen > reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep breath, > I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on my > face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, > instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my > world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. > > Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech > synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is uttered > without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and > their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets > that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us > how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common one > in the blindness community. > > “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” > > When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point of > view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or > technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, > especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. > Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. > > Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the right > doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who tend > to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with HIV > and aids as well. > > I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets offended > when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange > saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. Upon > further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV > did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. > > A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even today, > the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and acceptance, > even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In > today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship or > relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because we > are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. > > When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it > would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. > I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be a > journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers with > trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have let > my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. > > I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out > that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to > better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I > couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how blissful > would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well as > me in the future. > > I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a > question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along with > their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, > acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just satisfy > curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other > positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. > Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, such > as advocacy born from awareness. > > When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want to > divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If > education breeds positive results then people who live in different > conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end > these “offensive questions.” > > The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives in > an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived > through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each > answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. > With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in a > way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. > He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever > give. > > If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then we > can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. > Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, if > asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough to > let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each > other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best > teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated world, > one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of > answering offensive questions. > > /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other writing > archives */ > > *Click here to view my resume* > > > * > * > > *Click here to see my writing archive > * > > *Click here to view my website/ > / * > > */ > /* > > */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * > *Tel: 850 764 2161 * > > Facebook > > Twitter > > LinkedIn > > YouTube > > WordPress > > Blog RSS > > My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance > > My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long Will > I Cry? (play) > > WordPress > > My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news > > > Read more > | > My blog > > Share on Facebook > >  Share on Twitter > > > > Get this email app! > > > > Designed with WiseStamp - > Get > yours > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From mistydbradley at gmail.com Tue May 28 01:07:09 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 21:07:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions References: <0192AF67-EC75-48B5-A1AD-64B8281A5AF5@gmail.com><8D0293BBFADB8C6-D24-26712@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Desiree, I agree with you. I can understand if the questions are not obvious, such as how a blind person uses a computer or even how we travel, but I get crazy questions like you have mentioned. The ones I get a lot are: "How do you cook?" "How do you clean?" "Who helps you around the house? You don't have ANYONE helping you?" Also, I notice that if I answer the questions with what I actually do and that I don't have help, that person acts surprised and acts like it is such a travesty that I live alone with my young daughter and have no help or anyone doing everything for me, even so I have been on my own for about 7 years now. When I explain that I do cook on my own, the person responds very surprised and tells me, "Be careful, be careful when you cook!" I had this experience just yesterday, and I found that my explanations got me nowhere and just made them even more surprised and afraid I guess, and it made me feel very frustrated, as if I was an invalid who needed constant, around-the-clock care or something. I was actually out yesterday, and after all of the questions this person asked me, the person proceeded to not allow me to do anything for myself while there, even so I frequent that particular place at least once weekly and know how to get around it using my cane. This person followed me absolutely everywhere and kept grabbing onto me and giving me unnecessary directions, even though I explained to her that I knew the area and didn't need help, and the way she spoke to me was as if I were a small child. I ended up leaving to go home early before everyone else because I got fed up with the way I was being treated. I couldn't even stand up out of my seat without being asked, "Where are you going?" and being told to sit back down and that they would do whatever it was that I was trying to do for me. Anyway, I hope I didn't digress from the topic at hand, but this just goes to show that some people don't want to be educated about what blind people can do and seem to want to contain the blind person into a box. I do find that there are some that are genuinely curious and really want to be educated, but some, like the person I mentioned above, don't pay attention to explanations of how you do things as a blind person or even think that you can do things for yourself. I find this especially when dealing with people, like this person above, from countries and cultures where blind people are viewed as less or that they are not able to do anything for themselves without someone doing everything for them. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > Hi, > I agree with what has been said here so far. Sighted people often > don't know how they would do something if they were blind. to them, > sight is 95% of their existance. I don't get offended by questions > such as how I use a computer, or how I travel independently. Those > kind of questions make sense, once you put yourself in their shoes. > For the average, nondisabled person, any kind of disability is > paralyzingly frightening. It's better to ease their minds, which will, > hopefully, help them to understand what's possible for a blind person > to accomplish. If you remove the fear from a situation, it allows for > more clear thinking. what I have little tolerance for are the truly > ignorant questions, like how do you eat when You can't see? Or how do > you go to the bathroom? Now, come on. the average sighted person knows > that they're not watching their mouths while they eat, or watching > behind them after they take care of their business. Those kind of > questions are idiotic, and should be dealt with accordingly. Besides, > I don't think a sighted person would dare ask just any random stranger > those questions, regardless of what they felt the person's abilities > and limits were. How is it all right for people to cross those > boundaries just because a person is blind? I feel violated when a > perfect stranger asks me questions like that out of the blue. > > On 5/27/13, Miso Kwak wrote: >> I get similar questions like "If you are blind how do you march in a >> marching band?" "How do you use Facebook?" >> I have never thought of them as offensive thought because I would be >> asking the same thing if I were in the shoes of those who ask me such >> questions. >> I think it's important that we have an open mind and be equipped to >> explain and share. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anna Givens >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that >> people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to offend. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer >> wrote: >> >>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite >> each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >> right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the >> baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men >> and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in >> the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with >> deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony >> accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in >> conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at >> this interracial gay couple. >>> >>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >> teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >> rain, he asks me a very important question. >>> >>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>> >>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >> creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >> were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >> sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize >> that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille >> display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a >> computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never >> was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm >> blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer >> all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut >> instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he >> can be if I just teach him. >>> >>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >> uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted >> people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like >> sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted >> people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question >> that's become a common one in the blindness community. >>> >>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>> >>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >> point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness >> ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows >> everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t >> know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>> >>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking >> the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >> community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this >> applies to people with HIV and aids as well. >>> >>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they >> exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed >> off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't >> even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>> >>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >> today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV >> community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a >> good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That >> divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked >> ourselves at one point. >>> >>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered >> if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field >> reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am >> I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured >> out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past >> mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't >> have figured out the answer. >>> >>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >> out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now >> how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >> answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, >> then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >> someone else as well as me in the future. >>> >>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to >> a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >> with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >> soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are >> a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not >> visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and >> others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. >>> >>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >> want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >> computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in >> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the >> only way to end these “offensive questions.” >>> >>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >> lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, >> and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re >> together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming >> together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very >> long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education >> I could ever give. >>> >>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >> then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >> can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open >> wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where >> we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality >> and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a >> beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this >> positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. >>> >>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >> writing archives >>> */ >>> >>> *Click here to view my resume* >>> >> > ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>> >>> * >>> >> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>> >>> *Click here to see my writing archive >> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>> >>> *Click here to view my website/ >>> / >> * >>> >>> */ >>> /* >>> >>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>> >>> Facebook >> > kingett> Twitter >> > ter> LinkedIn >> > ngettr> YouTube >> > ingettspeaks> WordPress >> > s.com%2F> Blog RSS >> > om%2Ffeed%2F> >>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >> > ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- >> theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >> Long Will I Cry? (play) >> > com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% >> 2F> >>> WordPress >> > s.com%2F> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & >> other news >> > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>> Read more >> > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| My >> blog >> > s.com%2F> >>> Share on Facebook >> > php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 >> F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F>  Share on >> Twitter >> > eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 >> 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>> >>> Get this email app! >> > Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor >> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>> >> > ngettr> >>> Designed with WiseStamp - >> > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >> 10>Get yours >> > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >> 10> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com > From mistydbradley at gmail.com Tue May 28 01:16:25 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 21:16:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com><005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Arielle, I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just doing what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if there is time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell them that I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted people tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on their own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing everything for them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life that need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other daily things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and independent to do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on everyone to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more freedom and flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can understand somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of > doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already > believe we can't do something and answering their question about how > we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or > whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of > curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. > However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and > at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want > well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions > inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also > agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a > question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be > addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any > questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have > at times. > I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always > stumped when some stranger tells me I am > amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to > respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also > attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave > just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank > you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by > thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being > amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just > ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I > will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if > time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL Just >> to >> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm >> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >> writer >> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she >> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >> making >> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >> my >> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I >> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >> laughter >> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >> sure, >> stare at this interracial gay couple. >> >> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >> asks >> me a very important question. >> >> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >> >> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >> person >> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >> seen >> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >> breath, >> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >> my >> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in >> my >> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >> >> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >> uttered >> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and >> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets >> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us >> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common >> one >> in the blindness community. >> >> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >> >> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >> of >> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >> >> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >> right >> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >> tend >> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >> HIV >> and aids as well. >> >> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >> offended >> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >> Upon >> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV >> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >> >> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >> today, >> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >> acceptance, >> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >> or >> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because >> we >> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >> >> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it >> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be >> a >> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >> with >> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >> let >> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >> >> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out >> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to >> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I >> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >> blissful >> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well >> as >> me in the future. >> >> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >> with >> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >> satisfy >> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other >> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. >> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >> such >> as advocacy born from awareness. >> >> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want >> to >> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If >> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end >> these “offensive questions.” >> >> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives >> in >> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived >> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each >> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in >> a >> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever >> give. >> >> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then >> we >> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, >> if >> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >> to >> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best >> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >> world, >> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of >> answering offensive questions. >> >> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >> writing >> archives */ >> >> *Click here to view my resume* >> >> >> * >> * >> >> *Click here to see my writing archive >> * >> >> *Click here to view my website/ >> / * >> >> */ >> /* >> >> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >> >> Facebook >> >> Twitter >> >> LinkedIn >> >> YouTube >> >> WordPress >> >> Blog RSS >> >> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >> >> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >> Will >> I Cry? (play) >> >> WordPress >> >> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >> >> >> Read more >> | >> My blog >> >> Share on Facebook >> >>  Share on Twitter >> >> >> >> Get this email app! >> >> >> >> Designed with WiseStamp - >> Get >> yours >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 28 01:45:02 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:45:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com> <005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Misty, What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just answered my original question the first time and then I could have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform various activities if they became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things done. That's it. Arielle On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Arielle, > I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I > usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just doing > what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if there is > time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell them that > I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted people > tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on their > own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing everything for > them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life that > need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other daily > things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and independent to > do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on everyone > to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more freedom and > flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can understand > somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > >> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of >> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also >> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >> at times. >> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always >> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave >> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being >> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if >> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL Just >>> >>> to >>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm >>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >>> writer >>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she >>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>> making >>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >>> my >>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I >>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>> laughter >>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >>> sure, >>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>> >>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >>> asks >>> me a very important question. >>> >>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>> >>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >>> person >>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >>> seen >>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>> breath, >>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >>> my >>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in >>> >>> my >>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>> >>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>> uttered >>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and >>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets >>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us >>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common >>> one >>> in the blindness community. >>> >>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>> >>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >>> of >>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>> >>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >>> right >>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >>> tend >>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >>> HIV >>> and aids as well. >>> >>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>> offended >>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >>> Upon >>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV >>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>> >>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>> today, >>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>> acceptance, >>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >>> or >>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because >>> we >>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >>> >>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it >>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be >>> >>> a >>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >>> with >>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >>> let >>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >>> >>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out >>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to >>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I >>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>> blissful >>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well >>> >>> as >>> me in the future. >>> >>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>> with >>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>> satisfy >>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other >>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. >>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >>> such >>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>> >>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want >>> to >>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If >>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end >>> these “offensive questions.” >>> >>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives >>> in >>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived >>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each >>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in >>> >>> a >>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever >>> give. >>> >>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then >>> >>> we >>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, >>> if >>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >>> to >>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best >>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>> world, >>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of >>> answering offensive questions. >>> >>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>> writing >>> archives */ >>> >>> *Click here to view my resume* >>> >>> >>> * >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to view my website/ >>> / * >>> >>> */ >>> /* >>> >>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>> >>> Facebook >>> >>> Twitter >>> >>> LinkedIn >>> >>> YouTube >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> Blog RSS >>> >>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>> >>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >>> Will >>> I Cry? (play) >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>> >>> >>> Read more >>> | >>> My blog >>> >>> Share on Facebook >>> >>>  Share on Twitter >>> >>> >>> >>> Get this email app! >>> >>> >>> >>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>> Get >>> yours >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue May 28 01:54:59 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 18:54:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Studying over seas Message-ID: <5E18D967B64443AFBC31E36881653A0D@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I have seen that some people have studied overseas. I'm wondering if anyone has studied over seas with their school? If so, how did DOR take it? Also, how did SSI take it? I'm planning on going for a year next year, and don't want to pull my financial resources out from under me because I didn't know about something. If anyone has any information, please let me know. If worse comes to worse, I could add my address as my parent's, and just say to SSI I'm living there, and not tell DOR that I'm in another country... But I don't really want to do that if there is another way... Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 28 02:12:47 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 20:12:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Studying over seas In-Reply-To: <5E18D967B64443AFBC31E36881653A0D@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <5E18D967B64443AFBC31E36881653A0D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: I don't know anything about SSI, but as far as DOR/rehab goes, I'd think if they are paying your tuition for attending school, they would also pay your regular tuition for the year you are overseas? They might not cover the extra tuition for the study-abroad program unless you can justify it as enhancing achievement of your vocational goal, but I'd think as long as you are continuing your education they shouldn't care if it's in-state or not. You aren't losing residency in your home state. The credits you earn will count on your transcript as if they were earned at your home institution anyway. And if DOR isn't paying your tuition I'd say just don't tell them. On 5/27/13, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I have seen that some people have studied overseas. I'm wondering if anyone > > has studied over seas with their school? > If so, how did DOR take it? Also, how did SSI take it? > I'm planning on going for a year next year, and don't want to pull my > financial resources out from under me because I didn't know about > something. > If anyone has any information, please let me know. > If worse comes to worse, I could add my address as my parent's, and just say > > to SSI I'm living there, and not tell DOR that I'm in another country... > But I don't really want to do that if there is another way... > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From mistydbradley at gmail.com Tue May 28 02:17:57 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 22:17:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Studying over seas References: <5E18D967B64443AFBC31E36881653A0D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <251A0A0D9CE4418C8AF48AEF9188A5F9@acerd37f251f21> Hi Brandon, I know that for SSI you are not allowed to be out of the country for more than 30 calendar days. They told me this in my review, and also I found out because I went out of the country for about 7 months and had to reapply again when I got back to the U.S. I am not sure about vocational rehab though, although since it is for school they may keep your case open if you are getting services for school. Maybe you can ask your counselor what the policies are about studying abroad with your school. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 9:54 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Studying over seas > Hello, > I have seen that some people have studied overseas. I'm wondering if > anyone has studied over seas with their school? > If so, how did DOR take it? Also, how did SSI take it? > I'm planning on going for a year next year, and don't want to pull my > financial resources out from under me because I didn't know about > something. > If anyone has any information, please let me know. > If worse comes to worse, I could add my address as my parent's, and just > say to SSI I'm living there, and not tell DOR that I'm in another > country... > But I don't really want to do that if there is another way... > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From gpaikens at gmail.com Tue May 28 02:50:10 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 22:50:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Studying over seas In-Reply-To: <251A0A0D9CE4418C8AF48AEF9188A5F9@acerd37f251f21> References: <5E18D967B64443AFBC31E36881653A0D@BrandonsLaptop2> <251A0A0D9CE4418C8AF48AEF9188A5F9@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: <728FAD9E-51D5-4973-98C7-E11EEE7A7E21@gmail.com> Yes, SSI will not continue to support you if you are out of the country for more than 30 days like Misty said. Giving them your parent's address is one thing, but pretending to be in the states when you are not is fraud. I'd think seriously before doing that. They will make you pay back the money they paid you while out of the country, counting it as overpayment. That said, I highly recommend studying abroad. I had wonderful experiences studying in Spain for a semester and wish I had had the opportunity to study there for longer. Best, Greg On May 27, 2013, at 10:17 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi Brandon, > I know that for SSI you are not allowed to be out of the country for more than 30 calendar days. They told me this in my review, and also I found out because I went out of the country for about 7 months and had to reapply again when I got back to the U.S. I am not sure about vocational rehab though, although since it is for school they may keep your case open if you are getting services for school. Maybe you can ask your counselor what the policies are about studying abroad with your school. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 9:54 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Studying over seas > > >> Hello, >> I have seen that some people have studied overseas. I'm wondering if anyone has studied over seas with their school? >> If so, how did DOR take it? Also, how did SSI take it? >> I'm planning on going for a year next year, and don't want to pull my financial resources out from under me because I didn't know about something. >> If anyone has any information, please let me know. >> If worse comes to worse, I could add my address as my parent's, and just say to SSI I'm living there, and not tell DOR that I'm in another country... >> But I don't really want to do that if there is another way... >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue May 28 03:53:03 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 23:53:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com> <005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Arielle, Interesting points here. I was at a wedding reception a few weeks ago. Two of my mom's friends had gotten married. While I was there, the bride's brother, who's about a year older than me, sat down and talked to me. At first, he didn't even realize I was blind. I could tell because he kept making hand gestures and stuff to demonstrate his points, or pointing at things. I explained that I couldn't see what he was doing, and he just went on and on about how amazing I must be because I'm blind. He did ask some genuine questions, which I answered to the best of my ability, but after each question was answered, he repeatedly reiterated how he would never be able to do those things because he had been sighted all his life. He said, "You were born blind. You don't know what you've missed. Sighted people rely on their vision for everything." Then he took me to stand out in the rain with him. he said, "how can you enjoy the rain if you can't see?" So I had to explain the fresh scent (we were in the country), the feel of the cool, refreshing drops, and the relaxing sound as it gently hit the leaves and the grass. he thought that over for a minute, then asked me if I identified colors by smells. I must have looked at him like he had 8 heads, because he tried to say that green would smell like fresh-cut grass, red would smell like flowing blood after you've cut yourself, and blue would be the smell of a clear, crisp day at dawn. While his descriptions were poetic, I walked away from that meeting with him that night feeling a bit disgruntled. We exchanged phone numbers, but we haven't talked since. I'm not sure if I should. On the one hand, he was trying to put things in perspective, but on the other hand, he also seemed just a little too fixated on the fact that sight must play an integral role in anyone's life who has it. I even explained about the friends I've known who have lost their sight later in life and adapted, but that seemed to have little effect on him. then again, we were both drinking, so that may have been a factor. You know, sighted people think that being cut off from that sense would cut them off from reality. But don't people feel the same way about technology nowadays? How many people would welcome a massive power outage that would leave them stranded for weeks or months without their electronic devices, their computers, their refrigerators, their heaters or air conditioners, even amenities like toilets or traffic lights...What would we do? How would we cope? Likewise, how many people do you know who seem glued to their smart phones? they put them down for 30 seconds and they panic, wondering how many facebook statuses and tweets they've missed. I consider that to be a bit unhealthy. And yet everyone has their dependencies. Are all dependencies unhealthy? Are they just human nature? Or is there some way to eliminate the dependencies themselves, some way to foster the idea of adaptability, so that the fear itself wouldn't breed so much ignorance? On 5/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Misty, > What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, > was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you > were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? > If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the > manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask > questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds > like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, > and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter > on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I > do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen > to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For > example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a > restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had > been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid > the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on > the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, > but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get > back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to > be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and > say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there > barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had > been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had > just answered my original question the first time and then I could > have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. > I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of > all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm > doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I > sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I > will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they > would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? > As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted > people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has > been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, > adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these > doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order > to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, > or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of > these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn > the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people > looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one > of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people > how well they thought they could perform various activities if they > became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely > incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been > blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. > The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people > were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind > people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted > people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction > to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. > I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to > them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can > learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't > special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills > because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other > choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical > for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do > take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary > cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So > to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things > done. That's it. > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Arielle, >> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I >> usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just doing >> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if there >> is >> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell them >> that >> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted people >> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on their >> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing everything >> for >> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life that >> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other daily >> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and independent >> to >> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >> everyone >> to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more freedom >> and >> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >> understand >> somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> >>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of >>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >>> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >>> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >>> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >>> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >>> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >>> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also >>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >>> at times. >>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always >>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave >>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >>> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >>> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being >>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >>> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >>> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if >>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL >>>> Just >>>> >>>> to >>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm >>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >>>> writer >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game >>>> she >>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>>> making >>>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >>>> my >>>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as >>>> I >>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>>> laughter >>>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >>>> sure, >>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>> >>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >>>> asks >>>> me a very important question. >>>> >>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>> >>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >>>> person >>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >>>> seen >>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>>> breath, >>>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >>>> my >>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be >>>> in >>>> >>>> my >>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>> >>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>>> uttered >>>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people >>>> and >>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>> bullets >>>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask >>>> us >>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common >>>> one >>>> in the blindness community. >>>> >>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>> >>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >>>> of >>>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>> >>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >>>> right >>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >>>> tend >>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >>>> HIV >>>> and aids as well. >>>> >>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>> offended >>>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >>>> Upon >>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV >>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>> >>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>>> today, >>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>> acceptance, >>>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >>>> or >>>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because >>>> we >>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >>>> >>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if >>>> it >>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to >>>> be >>>> >>>> a >>>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >>>> with >>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >>>> let >>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >>>> >>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>>> out >>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how >>>> to >>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. >>>> I >>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>>> blissful >>>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as >>>> well >>>> >>>> as >>>> me in the future. >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>>> with >>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>>> satisfy >>>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other >>>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>>> immediately. >>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >>>> such >>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>> >>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want >>>> to >>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. >>>> If >>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to >>>> end >>>> these “offensive questions.” >>>> >>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives >>>> in >>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>>> lived >>>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with >>>> each >>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together >>>> in >>>> >>>> a >>>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could >>>> ever >>>> give. >>>> >>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>>> then >>>> >>>> we >>>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, >>>> if >>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >>>> to >>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the >>>> best >>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>>> world, >>>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result >>>> of >>>> answering offensive questions. >>>> >>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>>> writing >>>> archives */ >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>> / * >>>> >>>> */ >>>> /* >>>> >>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>> >>>> Facebook >>>> >>>> Twitter >>>> >>>> LinkedIn >>>> >>>> YouTube >>>> >>>> WordPress >>>> >>>> Blog RSS >>>> >>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>>> >>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >>>> Will >>>> I Cry? (play) >>>> >>>> WordPress >>>> >>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>> >>>> >>>> Read more >>>> | >>>> My blog >>>> >>>> Share on Facebook >>>> >>>>  Share on Twitter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Get this email app! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>> Get >>>> yours >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue May 28 03:59:00 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 23:59:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <0192AF67-EC75-48B5-A1AD-64B8281A5AF5@gmail.com> <8D0293BBFADB8C6-D24-26712@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Misty, I've gotten questions like that, too, and many reactions like the ones you've described. For the one about walking around your own house, that one especially makes me crazy. Like sighted people have never stumbled to the bathroom in the middle of the night, in the dark? Sometimes, I think people just lack common sense, which, frankly, is becoming more and more uncommon. As for the other situation you described, I don't know how I would have handled that. you were right to walk away. When a person can't take no for an answer, or "I'm fine, thank you", their issue goes far deeper than just ignorance about your disability. You have to wonder if they can set boundaries in their other relationships as well. It's like the people who grab you as you're walking down the street, minding your own business and walking purposefully, not lost or anything. At least the ones who pity you but keep their distance have some semblance of common sense, and of what personal space is. Those other people, obviously, do not. On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Desiree, > I agree with you. I can understand if the questions are not obvious, such as > how a blind person uses a computer or even how we travel, but I get crazy > questions like you have mentioned. The ones I get a lot are: > "How do you cook?" > "How do you clean?" > "Who helps you around the house? You don't have ANYONE helping you?" > Also, I notice that if I answer the questions with what I actually do and > that I don't have help, that person acts surprised and acts like it is such > a travesty that I live alone with my young daughter and have no help or > anyone doing everything for me, even so I have been on my own for about 7 > years now. When I explain that I do cook on my own, the person responds very > surprised and tells me, "Be careful, be careful when you cook!" I had this > experience just yesterday, and I found that my explanations got me nowhere > and just made them even more surprised and afraid I guess, and it made me > feel very frustrated, as if I was an invalid who needed constant, > around-the-clock care or something. I was actually out yesterday, and after > all of the questions this person asked me, the person proceeded to not allow > me to do anything for myself while there, even so I frequent that particular > place at least once weekly and know how to get around it using my cane. This > person followed me absolutely everywhere and kept grabbing onto me and > giving me unnecessary directions, even though I explained to her that I knew > the area and didn't need help, and the way she spoke to me was as if I were > a small child. I ended up leaving to go home early before everyone else > because I got fed up with the way I was being treated. I couldn't even stand > up out of my seat without being asked, "Where are you going?" and being told > to sit back down and that they would do whatever it was that I was trying to > do for me. > Anyway, I hope I didn't digress from the topic at hand, but this just goes > to show that some people don't want to be educated about what blind people > can do and seem to want to contain the blind person into a box. I do find > that there are some that are genuinely curious and really want to be > educated, but some, like the person I mentioned above, don't pay attention > to explanations of how you do things as a blind person or even think that > you can do things for yourself. I find this especially when dealing with > people, like this person above, from countries and cultures where blind > people are viewed as less or that they are not able to do anything for > themselves without someone doing everything for them. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:48 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > >> Hi, >> I agree with what has been said here so far. Sighted people often >> don't know how they would do something if they were blind. to them, >> sight is 95% of their existance. I don't get offended by questions >> such as how I use a computer, or how I travel independently. Those >> kind of questions make sense, once you put yourself in their shoes. >> For the average, nondisabled person, any kind of disability is >> paralyzingly frightening. It's better to ease their minds, which will, >> hopefully, help them to understand what's possible for a blind person >> to accomplish. If you remove the fear from a situation, it allows for >> more clear thinking. what I have little tolerance for are the truly >> ignorant questions, like how do you eat when You can't see? Or how do >> you go to the bathroom? Now, come on. the average sighted person knows >> that they're not watching their mouths while they eat, or watching >> behind them after they take care of their business. Those kind of >> questions are idiotic, and should be dealt with accordingly. Besides, >> I don't think a sighted person would dare ask just any random stranger >> those questions, regardless of what they felt the person's abilities >> and limits were. How is it all right for people to cross those >> boundaries just because a person is blind? I feel violated when a >> perfect stranger asks me questions like that out of the blue. >> >> On 5/27/13, Miso Kwak wrote: >>> I get similar questions like "If you are blind how do you march in a >>> marching band?" "How do you use Facebook?" >>> I have never thought of them as offensive thought because I would be >>> asking the same thing if I were in the shoes of those who ask me such >>> questions. >>> I think it's important that we have an open mind and be equipped to >>> explain and share. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anna Givens >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that >>> people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to offend. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite >>> each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>> right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the >>> baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men >>> and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in >>> the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with >>> deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony >>> accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in >>> conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at >>> this interracial gay couple. >>>> >>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>> teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >>> rain, he asks me a very important question. >>>> >>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>> >>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>> creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>> were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>> sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize >>> that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille >>> display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a >>> computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never >>> was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm >>> blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer >>> all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut >>> instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he >>> can be if I just teach him. >>>> >>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>> uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted >>> people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like >>> sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted >>> people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question >>> that's become a common one in the blindness community. >>>> >>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>> >>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >>> point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness >>> ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows >>> everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t >>> know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>> >>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking >>> the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>> community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this >>> applies to people with HIV and aids as well. >>>> >>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they >>> exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed >>> off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't >>> even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>> >>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>> today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV >>> community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a >>> good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That >>> divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked >>> ourselves at one point. >>>> >>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered >>> if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field >>> reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am >>> I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured >>> out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past >>> mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't >>> have figured out the answer. >>>> >>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>> out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now >>> how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >>> answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, >>> then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >>> someone else as well as me in the future. >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to >>> a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>> with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >>> soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are >>> a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not >>> visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and >>> others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. >>>> >>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >>> want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>> computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in >>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the >>> only way to end these “offensive questions.” >>>> >>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >>> lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, >>> and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re >>> together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming >>> together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very >>> long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education >>> I could ever give. >>>> >>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>> then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >>> can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open >>> wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where >>> we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality >>> and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a >>> beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this >>> positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. >>>> >>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>> writing archives >>>> */ >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>> >>> >> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>> >> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>> >> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>> / >>> * >>>> >>>> */ >>>> /* >>>> >>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>> >>>> Facebook >>> >> kingett> Twitter >>> >> ter> LinkedIn >>> >> ngettr> YouTube >>> >> ingettspeaks> WordPress >>> >> s.com%2F> Blog RSS >>> >> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>> >> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- >>> theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >>> Long Will I Cry? (play) >>> >> com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% >>> 2F> >>>> WordPress >>> >> s.com%2F> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & >>> other news >>> >> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>> Read more >>> >> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| My >>> blog >>> >> s.com%2F> >>>> Share on Facebook >>> >> php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 >>> F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F>  Share on >>> Twitter >>> >> eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 >>> 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>> >>>> Get this email app! >>> >> Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor >>> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>> >>> >> ngettr> >>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>> >> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >>> 10>Get yours >>> >> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >>> 10> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon May 27 04:13:08 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 00:13:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Attending CCB In-Reply-To: References: <563BC7A3D27D4A4FB8B1C9B946AFB336@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: <004101ce5a90$7f01add0$7d050970$@gmail.com> CCB is fantastic; I have always wanted to go, but I have never gotten the chance. From From my research, it is amazing. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 2:43 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Attending CCB Hi Misty, I did not attend CCB, but I attended LCB which is fairly similar. I too was living on my own and even traveled abroad for a semester before attending the center, but I still think it made a big difference in my life. I'd encourage you to join the CCB-Alumni list on NFBNet to talk with people who have been through CCB about your specific questions. Also, I know of a parent who is planning to come to CCB with her four-year-old daughter and they have worked it out so she and her daughter can live in an apartment all by themselves at the center complex. Her daughter, too, will attend daycare during the CCB class time. Best of luck, Arielle On 5/24/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi all, > Have any of you attended the Colorado Center for the Blind, and how > were your experiences there? > I am considering attending next year after I finish my associates > degree but am researching to find out if it is the best place for me. > I have lived on my own for about 6 years now and can travel and use > public transportation, but I probably could use some improvement in > some areas and also would like to improve job and career skills. > Do you think the center is mainly for those that are newly on their > own or just become blind, or do you think that someone that has been > blind from birth and on their own for some time could also benefit from attending CCB? > I attended a center in a different state that was not an NFB center, > but I felt that it was not the right place for me and did not complete > my term there. > Also, if you have children, can you still live in the center's > apartments, or do you have to just be a day student and live outside > of the center's housing? I am wondering, because I am a single mother > of a 5-year-old, so I would have to figure out how that is done as far > as housing. I would also have child care worked out in advance, so > that wouldn't be an issue during the day while I am in classes at the > center, but I definitely need to find out about living in the center's apartments with a child. > Also, I am out-of-state, and I am wondering how people here have > convinced their state's vocational rehab to help them attend the > center? I have not brought it up with my state's vocational rehab yet > because I am still researching about the center and the Denver Area in > general. If I plan to attend during the summer or fall of next year, > how soon should I bring it up with Vocational Rehab here in North Carolina? > Thank you, > Misty > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue May 28 04:13:35 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 21:13:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <0192AF67-EC75-48B5-A1AD-64B8281A5AF5@gmail.com><8D0293BBFADB8C6-D24-26712@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hello everybody. Its Dave. I don't know how many of you were on that call that we had with Pam but one of the things we talked about or one of the things that she talked about was the very thing we're talking about right now. that is how sighted people tend to think that what we do as blind people is so amazing. I use to be upset whenever anyone had ever asked me anything like that. Now I just most of the time ignore it and go on my way. I don't really at the time have the time it takes to deprogram them. One of the things that Pam said was that we want to be thought of as amazing if we truly do something that is amazing. If someone who is blind let's say wins the nobel peace prize thaat is truly amazing whether or not they are blind or sighted. so what it is is that we want to be called amazing when we as blind people do something that is truly amazing. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:59 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Misty, I've gotten questions like that, too, and many reactions like the ones you've described. For the one about walking around your own house, that one especially makes me crazy. Like sighted people have never stumbled to the bathroom in the middle of the night, in the dark? Sometimes, I think people just lack common sense, which, frankly, is becoming more and more uncommon. As for the other situation you described, I don't know how I would have handled that. you were right to walk away. When a person can't take no for an answer, or "I'm fine, thank you", their issue goes far deeper than just ignorance about your disability. You have to wonder if they can set boundaries in their other relationships as well. It's like the people who grab you as you're walking down the street, minding your own business and walking purposefully, not lost or anything. At least the ones who pity you but keep their distance have some semblance of common sense, and of what personal space is. Those other people, obviously, do not. On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Desiree, > I agree with you. I can understand if the questions are not obvious, such > as > how a blind person uses a computer or even how we travel, but I get crazy > questions like you have mentioned. The ones I get a lot are: > "How do you cook?" > "How do you clean?" > "Who helps you around the house? You don't have ANYONE helping you?" > Also, I notice that if I answer the questions with what I actually do and > that I don't have help, that person acts surprised and acts like it is > such > a travesty that I live alone with my young daughter and have no help or > anyone doing everything for me, even so I have been on my own for about 7 > years now. When I explain that I do cook on my own, the person responds > very > surprised and tells me, "Be careful, be careful when you cook!" I had this > experience just yesterday, and I found that my explanations got me nowhere > and just made them even more surprised and afraid I guess, and it made me > feel very frustrated, as if I was an invalid who needed constant, > around-the-clock care or something. I was actually out yesterday, and > after > all of the questions this person asked me, the person proceeded to not > allow > me to do anything for myself while there, even so I frequent that > particular > place at least once weekly and know how to get around it using my cane. > This > person followed me absolutely everywhere and kept grabbing onto me and > giving me unnecessary directions, even though I explained to her that I > knew > the area and didn't need help, and the way she spoke to me was as if I > were > a small child. I ended up leaving to go home early before everyone else > because I got fed up with the way I was being treated. I couldn't even > stand > up out of my seat without being asked, "Where are you going?" and being > told > to sit back down and that they would do whatever it was that I was trying > to > do for me. > Anyway, I hope I didn't digress from the topic at hand, but this just goes > to show that some people don't want to be educated about what blind people > can do and seem to want to contain the blind person into a box. I do find > that there are some that are genuinely curious and really want to be > educated, but some, like the person I mentioned above, don't pay attention > to explanations of how you do things as a blind person or even think that > you can do things for yourself. I find this especially when dealing with > people, like this person above, from countries and cultures where blind > people are viewed as less or that they are not able to do anything for > themselves without someone doing everything for them. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:48 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > >> Hi, >> I agree with what has been said here so far. Sighted people often >> don't know how they would do something if they were blind. to them, >> sight is 95% of their existance. I don't get offended by questions >> such as how I use a computer, or how I travel independently. Those >> kind of questions make sense, once you put yourself in their shoes. >> For the average, nondisabled person, any kind of disability is >> paralyzingly frightening. It's better to ease their minds, which will, >> hopefully, help them to understand what's possible for a blind person >> to accomplish. If you remove the fear from a situation, it allows for >> more clear thinking. what I have little tolerance for are the truly >> ignorant questions, like how do you eat when You can't see? Or how do >> you go to the bathroom? Now, come on. the average sighted person knows >> that they're not watching their mouths while they eat, or watching >> behind them after they take care of their business. Those kind of >> questions are idiotic, and should be dealt with accordingly. Besides, >> I don't think a sighted person would dare ask just any random stranger >> those questions, regardless of what they felt the person's abilities >> and limits were. How is it all right for people to cross those >> boundaries just because a person is blind? I feel violated when a >> perfect stranger asks me questions like that out of the blue. >> >> On 5/27/13, Miso Kwak wrote: >>> I get similar questions like "If you are blind how do you march in a >>> marching band?" "How do you use Facebook?" >>> I have never thought of them as offensive thought because I would be >>> asking the same thing if I were in the shoes of those who ask me such >>> questions. >>> I think it's important that we have an open mind and be equipped to >>> explain and share. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anna Givens >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that >>> people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to offend. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite >>> each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>> right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the >>> baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men >>> and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in >>> the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with >>> deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony >>> accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in >>> conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at >>> this interracial gay couple. >>>> >>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>> teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >>> rain, he asks me a very important question. >>>> >>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>> >>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>> creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>> were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>> sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize >>> that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille >>> display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a >>> computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never >>> was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm >>> blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer >>> all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut >>> instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he >>> can be if I just teach him. >>>> >>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>> uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted >>> people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like >>> sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted >>> people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question >>> that's become a common one in the blindness community. >>>> >>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>> >>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >>> point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness >>> ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows >>> everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t >>> know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>> >>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking >>> the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>> community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this >>> applies to people with HIV and aids as well. >>>> >>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they >>> exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed >>> off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't >>> even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>> >>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>> today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV >>> community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a >>> good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That >>> divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked >>> ourselves at one point. >>>> >>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered >>> if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field >>> reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am >>> I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured >>> out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past >>> mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't >>> have figured out the answer. >>>> >>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>> out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now >>> how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >>> answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, >>> then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >>> someone else as well as me in the future. >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to >>> a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>> with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >>> soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are >>> a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not >>> visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and >>> others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. >>>> >>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >>> want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>> computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in >>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the >>> only way to end these “offensive questions.” >>>> >>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >>> lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, >>> and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re >>> together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming >>> together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very >>> long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education >>> I could ever give. >>>> >>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>> then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >>> can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open >>> wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where >>> we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality >>> and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a >>> beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this >>> positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. >>>> >>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>> writing archives >>>> */ >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>> >>> >> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>> >> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>> >> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>> / >>> * >>>> >>>> */ >>>> /* >>>> >>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>> >>>> Facebook >>> >> kingett> Twitter >>> >> ter> LinkedIn >>> >> ngettr> YouTube >>> >> ingettspeaks> WordPress >>> >> s.com%2F> Blog RSS >>> >> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>> >> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- >>> theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >>> Long Will I Cry? (play) >>> >> com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% >>> 2F> >>>> WordPress >>> >> s.com%2F> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & >>> other news >>> >> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>> Read more >>> >> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| My >>> blog >>> >> s.com%2F> >>>> Share on Facebook >>> >> php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 >>> F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> Share on >>> Twitter >>> >> eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 >>> 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>> >>>> Get this email app! >>> >> Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor >>> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>> >>> >> ngettr> >>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>> >> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >>> 10>Get yours >>> >> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >>> 10> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue May 28 04:16:36 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 21:16:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Studying over seas In-Reply-To: <728FAD9E-51D5-4973-98C7-E11EEE7A7E21@gmail.com> References: <5E18D967B64443AFBC31E36881653A0D@BrandonsLaptop2><251A0A0D9CE4418C8AF48AEF9188A5F9@acerd37f251f21> <728FAD9E-51D5-4973-98C7-E11EEE7A7E21@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Greg my name is Dave. I have always wanted to go to spain. What was it like over there. I've always wondered about the spanish food. I've heard people say its different. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Aikens Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:50 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Studying over seas Yes, SSI will not continue to support you if you are out of the country for more than 30 days like Misty said. Giving them your parent's address is one thing, but pretending to be in the states when you are not is fraud. I'd think seriously before doing that. They will make you pay back the money they paid you while out of the country, counting it as overpayment. That said, I highly recommend studying abroad. I had wonderful experiences studying in Spain for a semester and wish I had had the opportunity to study there for longer. Best, Greg On May 27, 2013, at 10:17 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi Brandon, > I know that for SSI you are not allowed to be out of the country for more > than 30 calendar days. They told me this in my review, and also I found > out because I went out of the country for about 7 months and had to > reapply again when I got back to the U.S. I am not sure about vocational > rehab though, although since it is for school they may keep your case open > if you are getting services for school. Maybe you can ask your counselor > what the policies are about studying abroad with your school. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 9:54 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Studying over seas > > >> Hello, >> I have seen that some people have studied overseas. I'm wondering if >> anyone has studied over seas with their school? >> If so, how did DOR take it? Also, how did SSI take it? >> I'm planning on going for a year next year, and don't want to pull my >> financial resources out from under me because I didn't know about >> something. >> If anyone has any information, please let me know. >> If worse comes to worse, I could add my address as my parent's, and just >> say to SSI I'm living there, and not tell DOR that I'm in another >> country... >> But I don't really want to do that if there is another way... >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Tue May 28 05:19:53 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 01:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D0297A1EB33D3D-1F9C-2916A@webmail-vm011.sysops.aol.com> I have never been intrigued by any discussion on this list as this... As many of you mentioned we get comments like "inspirational" and "amazing". What does the word "inspirational" mean anyways? In the last 4 years as a high school student, I have been actively involved and thankfully have been recognized in occasions and honestly I can't be grateful for how my high school experiences have been. Yet I have wondered "Is my life great because I am blind"? Once a teacher told me that it's not my blindness but my drive and passion that makes me who I am which I deeply appreciate to this day. I am obviously inexperienced compare to the majority of you on this list for I don't remember being asked questions like "How do you eat?" or "How do you use restroom?" yet. Most of the questions I get are from my peers or teachers so they were mostly never felt rude to me. Also as Misty mentioned I believe the culture plays a big role. I am originally from South Korea where prejudice against people with disabilities is stronger than here in the U.S. What was surprising to me when I came here as a middle school student, was that even in the US there were people who thought blind people as incapable people or how overly anxious people were about my safety. For instance, at my first school I had to fight the school district to let me ride on school bus with my sighted peers instead of a van with extra supervision. In the end I think what's important is having people be exposed to different types of disabilities or just difference in general from early age. I have some great sighted friends who know me as an individual and whom I feel comfortable being around. I know that when we part after high school when they meet other blind people later they will know how to get along well. I think we experience those "offensive questions" and treatments mostly because of lack of knowledge and common sense. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 9:14 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Hello everybody. Its Dave. I don't know how many of you were on that call that we had with Pam but one of the things we talked about or one of the things that she talked about was the very thing we're talking about right now. that is how sighted people tend to think that what we do as blind people is so amazing. I use to be upset whenever anyone had ever asked me anything like that. Now I just most of the time ignore it and go on my way. I don't really at the time have the time it takes to deprogram them. One of the things that Pam said was that we want to be thought of as amazing if we truly do something that is amazing. If someone who is blind let's say wins the nobel peace prize thaat is truly amazing whether or not they are blind or sighted. so what it is is that we want to be called amazing when we as blind people do something that is truly amazing. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:59 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Misty, I've gotten questions like that, too, and many reactions like the ones you've described. For the one about walking around your own house, that one especially makes me crazy. Like sighted people have never stumbled to the bathroom in the middle of the night, in the dark? Sometimes, I think people just lack common sense, which, frankly, is becoming more and more uncommon. As for the other situation you described, I don't know how I would have handled that. you were right to walk away. When a person can't take no for an answer, or "I'm fine, thank you", their issue goes far deeper than just ignorance about your disability. You have to wonder if they can set boundaries in their other relationships as well. It's like the people who grab you as you're walking down the street, minding your own business and walking purposefully, not lost or anything. At least the ones who pity you but keep their distance have some semblance of common sense, and of what personal space is. Those other people, obviously, do not. On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Desiree, > I agree with you. I can understand if the questions are not obvious, such > as > how a blind person uses a computer or even how we travel, but I get crazy > questions like you have mentioned. The ones I get a lot are: > "How do you cook?" > "How do you clean?" > "Who helps you around the house? You don't have ANYONE helping you?" > Also, I notice that if I answer the questions with what I actually do and > that I don't have help, that person acts surprised and acts like it is > such > a travesty that I live alone with my young daughter and have no help or > anyone doing everything for me, even so I have been on my own for about 7 > years now. When I explain that I do cook on my own, the person responds > very > surprised and tells me, "Be careful, be careful when you cook!" I had this > experience just yesterday, and I found that my explanations got me nowhere > and just made them even more surprised and afraid I guess, and it made me > feel very frustrated, as if I was an invalid who needed constant, > around-the-clock care or something. I was actually out yesterday, and > after > all of the questions this person asked me, the person proceeded to not > allow > me to do anything for myself while there, even so I frequent that > particular > place at least once weekly and know how to get around it using my cane. > This > person followed me absolutely everywhere and kept grabbing onto me and > giving me unnecessary directions, even though I explained to her that I > knew > the area and didn't need help, and the way she spoke to me was as if I > were > a small child. I ended up leaving to go home early before everyone else > because I got fed up with the way I was being treated. I couldn't even > stand > up out of my seat without being asked, "Where are you going?" and being > told > to sit back down and that they would do whatever it was that I was trying > to > do for me. > Anyway, I hope I didn't digress from the topic at hand, but this just goes > to show that some people don't want to be educated about what blind people > can do and seem to want to contain the blind person into a box. I do find > that there are some that are genuinely curious and really want to be > educated, but some, like the person I mentioned above, don't pay attention > to explanations of how you do things as a blind person or even think that > you can do things for yourself. I find this especially when dealing with > people, like this person above, from countries and cultures where blind > people are viewed as less or that they are not able to do anything for > themselves without someone doing everything for them. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:48 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > >> Hi, >> I agree with what has been said here so far. Sighted people often >> don't know how they would do something if they were blind. to them, >> sight is 95% of their existance. I don't get offended by questions >> such as how I use a computer, or how I travel independently. Those >> kind of questions make sense, once you put yourself in their shoes. >> For the average, nondisabled person, any kind of disability is >> paralyzingly frightening. It's better to ease their minds, which will, >> hopefully, help them to understand what's possible for a blind person >> to accomplish. If you remove the fear from a situation, it allows for >> more clear thinking. what I have little tolerance for are the truly >> ignorant questions, like how do you eat when You can't see? Or how do >> you go to the bathroom? Now, come on. the average sighted person knows >> that they're not watching their mouths while they eat, or watching >> behind them after they take care of their business. Those kind of >> questions are idiotic, and should be dealt with accordingly. Besides, >> I don't think a sighted person would dare ask just any random stranger >> those questions, regardless of what they felt the person's abilities >> and limits were. How is it all right for people to cross those >> boundaries just because a person is blind? I feel violated when a >> perfect stranger asks me questions like that out of the blue. >> >> On 5/27/13, Miso Kwak wrote: >>> I get similar questions like "If you are blind how do you march in a >>> marching band?" "How do you use Facebook?" >>> I have never thought of them as offensive thought because I would be >>> asking the same thing if I were in the shoes of those who ask me such >>> questions. >>> I think it's important that we have an open mind and be equipped to >>> explain and share. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anna Givens >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that >>> people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to offend. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite >>> each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>> right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the >>> baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men >>> and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in >>> the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with >>> deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony >>> accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in >>> conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at >>> this interracial gay couple. >>>> >>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>> teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >>> rain, he asks me a very important question. >>>> >>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>> >>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>> creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>> were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>> sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize >>> that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille >>> display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a >>> computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never >>> was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm >>> blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer >>> all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut >>> instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he >>> can be if I just teach him. >>>> >>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>> uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted >>> people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like >>> sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted >>> people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question >>> that's become a common one in the blindness community. >>>> >>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>> >>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >>> point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness >>> ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows >>> everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t >>> know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>> >>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking >>> the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>> community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this >>> applies to people with HIV and aids as well. >>>> >>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they >>> exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed >>> off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't >>> even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>> >>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>> today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV >>> community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a >>> good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That >>> divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked >>> ourselves at one point. >>>> >>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered >>> if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field >>> reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am >>> I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured >>> out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past >>> mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't >>> have figured out the answer. >>>> >>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>> out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now >>> how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >>> answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, >>> then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >>> someone else as well as me in the future. >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to >>> a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>> with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >>> soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are >>> a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not >>> visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and >>> others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. >>>> >>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >>> want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>> computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in >>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the >>> only way to end these “offensive questions.” >>>> >>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >>> lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, >>> and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re >>> together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming >>> together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very >>> long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education >>> I could ever give. >>>> >>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>> then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >>> can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open >>> wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where >>> we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality >>> and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a >>> beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this >>> positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. >>>> >>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>> writing archives >>>> */ >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>> >>> >> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>> >> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>> >> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>> / >>> * >>>> >>>> */ >>>> /* >>>> >>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>> >>>> Facebook >>> >> kingett> Twitter >>> >> ter> LinkedIn >>> >> ngettr> YouTube >>> >> ingettspeaks> WordPress >>> >> s.com%2F> Blog RSS >>> >> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>> >> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- >>> theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >>> Long Will I Cry? (play) >>> >> com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% >>> 2F> >>>> WordPress >>> >> s.com%2F> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & >>> other news >>> >> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>> Read more >>> >> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| My >>> blog >>> >> s.com%2F> >>>> Share on Facebook >>> >> php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 >>> F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> Share on >>> Twitter >>> >> eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 >>> 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>> >>>> Get this email app! >>> >> Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor >>> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>> >>> >> ngettr> >>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>> >> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >>> 10>Get yours >>> >> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >>> 10> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Tue May 28 05:38:55 2013 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 01:38:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Is Anyone Looking For A Roomate For Convention? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Anna, Hannah and Everyone: I found a roomate. Thank you so much for the offers though!! Maybe we can room together in the future!! Again, I really appreciate the offers!! Thanks, Kerri On 5/25/13, Anna Givens wrote: > Did u find one? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > >> Hi Everyone: >> >> I am planning to attend national convention in Orlando. I called the >> hotel yesterday to reserve a room and they are sold out. >> So, I was wondering if anyone has a room reserved and is looking for a >> roomate? >> Either respond on-list, or email me off-list. >> Thanks so much! >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue May 28 07:34:53 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 07:34:53 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <8D0297A1EB33D3D-1F9C-2916A@webmail-vm011.sysops.aol.com> References: , <8D0297A1EB33D3D-1F9C-2916A@webmail-vm011.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Miso, and others! I liked that last line of your post. The great Frinch philosopher, Voltaire said something about common sense. "Common Sense isn't so common." There's alot of truth to that! I've been called all kinds of things, because of my blindness. One time, some crazy guy asked me how I knew what keys I was playing on the piano, without them being labeled! Good grief! Ignorance is getting old, but I'm taking this Bible passage to heart. In 1 Corinthians 14, it says if any man be ignorant, let them be ignorant. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak [kwakmiso at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:19 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions I have never been intrigued by any discussion on this list as this... As many of you mentioned we get comments like "inspirational" and "amazing". What does the word "inspirational" mean anyways? In the last 4 years as a high school student, I have been actively involved and thankfully have been recognized in occasions and honestly I can't be grateful for how my high school experiences have been. Yet I have wondered "Is my life great because I am blind"? Once a teacher told me that it's not my blindness but my drive and passion that makes me who I am which I deeply appreciate to this day. I am obviously inexperienced compare to the majority of you on this list for I don't remember being asked questions like "How do you eat?" or "How do you use restroom?" yet. Most of the questions I get are from my peers or teachers so they were mostly never felt rude to me. Also as Misty mentioned I believe the culture plays a big role. I am originally from South Korea where prejudice against people with disabilities is stronger than here in the U.S. What was surprising to me when I came here as a middle school student, was that even in the US there were people who thought blind people as incapable people or how overly anxious people were about my safety. For instance, at my first school I had to fight the school district to let me ride on school bus with my sighted peers instead of a van with extra supervision. In the end I think what's important is having people be exposed to different types of disabilities or just difference in general from early age. I have some great sighted friends who know me as an individual and whom I feel comfortable being around. I know that when we part after high school when they meet other blind people later they will know how to get along well. I think we experience those "offensive questions" and treatments mostly because of lack of knowledge and common sense. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 9:14 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Hello everybody. Its Dave. I don't know how many of you were on that call that we had with Pam but one of the things we talked about or one of the things that she talked about was the very thing we're talking about right now. that is how sighted people tend to think that what we do as blind people is so amazing. I use to be upset whenever anyone had ever asked me anything like that. Now I just most of the time ignore it and go on my way. I don't really at the time have the time it takes to deprogram them. One of the things that Pam said was that we want to be thought of as amazing if we truly do something that is amazing. If someone who is blind let's say wins the nobel peace prize thaat is truly amazing whether or not they are blind or sighted. so what it is is that we want to be called amazing when we as blind people do something that is truly amazing. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:59 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Misty, I've gotten questions like that, too, and many reactions like the ones you've described. For the one about walking around your own house, that one especially makes me crazy. Like sighted people have never stumbled to the bathroom in the middle of the night, in the dark? Sometimes, I think people just lack common sense, which, frankly, is becoming more and more uncommon. As for the other situation you described, I don't know how I would have handled that. you were right to walk away. When a person can't take no for an answer, or "I'm fine, thank you", their issue goes far deeper than just ignorance about your disability. You have to wonder if they can set boundaries in their other relationships as well. It's like the people who grab you as you're walking down the street, minding your own business and walking purposefully, not lost or anything. At least the ones who pity you but keep their distance have some semblance of common sense, and of what personal space is. Those other people, obviously, do not. On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Desiree, > I agree with you. I can understand if the questions are not obvious, such > as > how a blind person uses a computer or even how we travel, but I get crazy > questions like you have mentioned. The ones I get a lot are: > "How do you cook?" > "How do you clean?" > "Who helps you around the house? You don't have ANYONE helping you?" > Also, I notice that if I answer the questions with what I actually do and > that I don't have help, that person acts surprised and acts like it is > such > a travesty that I live alone with my young daughter and have no help or > anyone doing everything for me, even so I have been on my own for about 7 > years now. When I explain that I do cook on my own, the person responds > very > surprised and tells me, "Be careful, be careful when you cook!" I had this > experience just yesterday, and I found that my explanations got me nowhere > and just made them even more surprised and afraid I guess, and it made me > feel very frustrated, as if I was an invalid who needed constant, > around-the-clock care or something. I was actually out yesterday, and > after > all of the questions this person asked me, the person proceeded to not > allow > me to do anything for myself while there, even so I frequent that > particular > place at least once weekly and know how to get around it using my cane. > This > person followed me absolutely everywhere and kept grabbing onto me and > giving me unnecessary directions, even though I explained to her that I > knew > the area and didn't need help, and the way she spoke to me was as if I > were > a small child. I ended up leaving to go home early before everyone else > because I got fed up with the way I was being treated. I couldn't even > stand > up out of my seat without being asked, "Where are you going?" and being > told > to sit back down and that they would do whatever it was that I was trying > to > do for me. > Anyway, I hope I didn't digress from the topic at hand, but this just goes > to show that some people don't want to be educated about what blind people > can do and seem to want to contain the blind person into a box. I do find > that there are some that are genuinely curious and really want to be > educated, but some, like the person I mentioned above, don't pay attention > to explanations of how you do things as a blind person or even think that > you can do things for yourself. I find this especially when dealing with > people, like this person above, from countries and cultures where blind > people are viewed as less or that they are not able to do anything for > themselves without someone doing everything for them. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:48 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > >> Hi, >> I agree with what has been said here so far. Sighted people often >> don't know how they would do something if they were blind. to them, >> sight is 95% of their existance. I don't get offended by questions >> such as how I use a computer, or how I travel independently. Those >> kind of questions make sense, once you put yourself in their shoes. >> For the average, nondisabled person, any kind of disability is >> paralyzingly frightening. It's better to ease their minds, which will, >> hopefully, help them to understand what's possible for a blind person >> to accomplish. If you remove the fear from a situation, it allows for >> more clear thinking. what I have little tolerance for are the truly >> ignorant questions, like how do you eat when You can't see? Or how do >> you go to the bathroom? Now, come on. the average sighted person knows >> that they're not watching their mouths while they eat, or watching >> behind them after they take care of their business. Those kind of >> questions are idiotic, and should be dealt with accordingly. Besides, >> I don't think a sighted person would dare ask just any random stranger >> those questions, regardless of what they felt the person's abilities >> and limits were. How is it all right for people to cross those >> boundaries just because a person is blind? I feel violated when a >> perfect stranger asks me questions like that out of the blue. >> >> On 5/27/13, Miso Kwak wrote: >>> I get similar questions like "If you are blind how do you march in a >>> marching band?" "How do you use Facebook?" >>> I have never thought of them as offensive thought because I would be >>> asking the same thing if I were in the shoes of those who ask me such >>> questions. >>> I think it's important that we have an open mind and be equipped to >>> explain and share. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anna Givens >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that >>> people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to offend. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite >>> each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>> right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the >>> baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men >>> and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in >>> the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with >>> deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony >>> accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in >>> conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at >>> this interracial gay couple. >>>> >>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>> teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >>> rain, he asks me a very important question. >>>> >>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>> >>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>> creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>> were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>> sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize >>> that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille >>> display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a >>> computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never >>> was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm >>> blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer >>> all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut >>> instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he >>> can be if I just teach him. >>>> >>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>> uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted >>> people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like >>> sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted >>> people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question >>> that's become a common one in the blindness community. >>>> >>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>> >>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >>> point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness >>> ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows >>> everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t >>> know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>> >>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking >>> the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>> community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this >>> applies to people with HIV and aids as well. >>>> >>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they >>> exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed >>> off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't >>> even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>> >>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>> today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV >>> community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a >>> good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That >>> divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked >>> ourselves at one point. >>>> >>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered >>> if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field >>> reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am >>> I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured >>> out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past >>> mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't >>> have figured out the answer. >>>> >>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>> out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now >>> how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >>> answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, >>> then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >>> someone else as well as me in the future. >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to >>> a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>> with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >>> soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are >>> a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not >>> visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and >>> others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. >>>> >>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >>> want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>> computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in >>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the >>> only way to end these “offensive questions.” >>>> >>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >>> lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, >>> and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re >>> together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming >>> together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very >>> long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education >>> I could ever give. >>>> >>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>> then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >>> can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open >>> wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where >>> we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality >>> and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a >>> beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this >>> positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. >>>> >>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>> writing archives >>>> */ >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>> >>> >> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>> >> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>> >> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>> / >>> * >>>> >>>> */ >>>> /* >>>> >>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>> >>>> Facebook >>> >> kingett> Twitter >>> >> ter> LinkedIn >>> >> ngettr> YouTube >>> >> ingettspeaks> WordPress >>> >> s.com%2F> Blog RSS >>> >> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>> >> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- >>> theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >>> Long Will I Cry? (play) >>> >> com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% >>> 2F> >>>> WordPress >>> >> s.com%2F> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & >>> other news >>> >> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>> Read more >>> >> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| My >>> blog >>> >> s.com%2F> >>>> Share on Facebook >>> >> php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 >>> F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> Share on >>> Twitter >>> >> eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 >>> 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>> >>>> Get this email app! >>> >> Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor >>> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>> >>> >> ngettr> >>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>> >> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >>> 10>Get yours >>> >> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >>> 10> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue May 28 13:36:34 2013 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 09:36:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Studying over seas In-Reply-To: References: <5E18D967B64443AFBC31E36881653A0D@BrandonsLaptop2> <251A0A0D9CE4418C8AF48AEF9188A5F9@acerd37f251f21> <728FAD9E-51D5-4973-98C7-E11EEE7A7E21@gmail.com> Message-ID: Brandon and all, Brandon I'd check with SSA regarding SSI benefits. I have a feeling that the thirty day rule might not apply for study abroad, since you are a student and haven't actually moved there, but I could be wrong. I went to Paris for over thirty days, and they knew it was for a study abroad program and didn't do anything about my benefits. Most states have some kind of organization which will help you best navigate SSI and SSDI benefits, I'd try to find out what it is in your state and contact them regarding this. Thanks. Mary F On 5/28/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Hi Greg my name is Dave. I have always wanted to go to spain. What was it > > like over there. I've always wondered about the spanish food. I've heard > people say its different. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Aikens > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:50 PM > To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Studying over seas > > Yes, SSI will not continue to support you if you are out of the country for > > more than 30 days like Misty said. Giving them your parent's address is one > > thing, but pretending to be in the states when you are not is fraud. I'd > think seriously before doing that. They will make you pay back the money > they paid you while out of the country, counting it as overpayment. > > That said, I highly recommend studying abroad. I had wonderful experiences > > studying in Spain for a semester and wish I had had the opportunity to study > > there for longer. > > Best, > Greg > > On May 27, 2013, at 10:17 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley > wrote: > >> Hi Brandon, >> I know that for SSI you are not allowed to be out of the country for more >> >> than 30 calendar days. They told me this in my review, and also I found >> out because I went out of the country for about 7 months and had to >> reapply again when I got back to the U.S. I am not sure about vocational >> rehab though, although since it is for school they may keep your case open >> >> if you are getting services for school. Maybe you can ask your counselor >> what the policies are about studying abroad with your school. >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 9:54 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Studying over seas >> >> >>> Hello, >>> I have seen that some people have studied overseas. I'm wondering if >>> anyone has studied over seas with their school? >>> If so, how did DOR take it? Also, how did SSI take it? >>> I'm planning on going for a year next year, and don't want to pull my >>> financial resources out from under me because I didn't know about >>> something. >>> If anyone has any information, please let me know. >>> If worse comes to worse, I could add my address as my parent's, and just >>> >>> say to SSI I'm living there, and not tell DOR that I'm in another >>> country... >>> But I don't really want to do that if there is another way... >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." — Maya Angelou From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue May 28 13:55:07 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 09:55:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <8D0297A1EB33D3D-1F9C-2916A@webmail-vm011.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I have been lucky to avoid some of these things in personal experience, but I've heard of plenty of them. Two stories that really show just how far some people will go are this. A few friends of mine were out to eat. They're capable, competent blind teenagers who were just going about their business eating their meal. When they stood up to lead the two mothers who were with them and who had driven the group to the restaurant started sighted guiding two of the teens. On their way out the door this random woman came up to one of the moms and started saying, "Angel... angel..." over and over because the woman thought she was so great for sheparding the blind people around. She just kind of ignored it and went on her way, and her son and I had a good laugh when he told me about it later. Another story happened to two guys I knew who were trying to catch their flight. They were in the airport making their way towards their gate, and this random stranger would not leave them alone. He wanted to help them with their luggage, lead them to their gate, and do all sorts of stuff for them. Finally they had enough and stopped, and the one man abandoned all nicities and told the guy they would not move any further until he left them alone. It worked and again my friends and I laughed about it when they told us the story, but it just shows the ridiculous lengths people will go to when they see the blind as helpless. In both cases the people didn't consider that the people involved were not incompetent. They had no idea that in some instances, like in a restaurant where there are people, chairs, tables, and other things everywhere, it's just simpler to do sighted guide even if you're a great cane traveler. The guy at the airport also failed to consider that these two guys were experienced plane travelers and obviously knew the airport well enough if they were ignoring him and still headed towards their gate, because he couldn't imagine a couple of blind guys making their flight safely on their own. My point is that there are nuts everywhere, and like other people with disabilities we're not the only ones who have to deal with them. It's just as infuriating to someone in a wheelchair when someone constantly wants to push them even if they have a joy stick or can do it themselves, or since someone is standing over them they talk down to the person as if they're younger or smaller. I agree that common sense isn't very common any more, but when you consider that you have blind and sighted friends who do get it and understand you, those crazy, over-the-top people don't seem worth worrying about to me. As Dave said, the philosophy call hit it on the head. What I took away from Anil Lewis and Pam Allen's takes on this is that we shouldn't deny ourselves the amazing label when we really do something amazing, and when we're recognized for something that really isn't a big deal all we can do is try to explain the ways in which we do what everyone else does. E.G. If you win a scholarship to study abroad that is amazing because it's an honor and an opportunity to experience something new, but (like Miso I had this happen) marching in a high school marching band using non-visual techniques is just an adapted way of doing the norm, same as cooking, cleaning one's house, or doing day-to-day tasks without sighted help. On 5/28/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Miso, and others! > I liked that last line of your post. > The great Frinch philosopher, Voltaire said something about common sense. > "Common Sense isn't so common." > There's alot of truth to that! > I've been called all kinds of things, because of my blindness. > One time, some crazy guy asked me how I knew what keys I was playing on the > piano, without them being labeled! > Good grief! > Ignorance is getting old, but I'm taking this Bible passage to heart. > In 1 Corinthians 14, it says if any man be ignorant, let them be ignorant. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak > [kwakmiso at aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:19 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > I have never been intrigued by any discussion on this list as this... > As many of you mentioned we get comments like "inspirational" and > "amazing". > What does the word "inspirational" mean anyways? > In the last 4 years as a high school student, I have been actively > involved and thankfully have been recognized in occasions and honestly > I can't be grateful for how my high school experiences have been. > Yet I have wondered "Is my life great because I am blind"? > Once a teacher told me that it's not my blindness but my drive and > passion that makes me who I am which I deeply appreciate to this day. > I am obviously inexperienced compare to the majority of you on this > list for I don't remember being asked questions like "How do you eat?" > or "How do you use restroom?" yet. > Most of the questions I get are from my peers or teachers so they were > mostly never felt rude to me. > Also as Misty mentioned I believe the culture plays a big role. > I am originally from South Korea where prejudice against people with > disabilities is stronger than here in the U.S. > What was surprising to me when I came here as a middle school student, > was that even in the US there were people who thought blind people as > incapable people or how overly anxious people were about my safety. > For instance, at my first school I had to fight the school district to > let me ride on school bus with my sighted peers instead of a van with > extra supervision. > In the end I think what's important is having people be exposed to > different types of disabilities or just difference in general from > early age. > I have some great sighted friends who know me as an individual and whom > I feel comfortable being around. I know that when we part after high > school when they meet other blind people later they will know how to > get along well. > I think we experience those "offensive questions" and treatments mostly > because of lack of knowledge and common sense. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Webster > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 9:14 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > Hello everybody. Its Dave. I don't know how many of you were on that > call > that we had with Pam but one of the things we talked about or one of > the > things that she talked about was the very thing we're talking about > right > now. that is how sighted people tend to think that what we do as blind > people is so amazing. I use to be upset whenever anyone had ever asked > me > anything like that. Now I just most of the time ignore it and go on my > way. > I don't really at the time have the time it takes to deprogram them. > One of > the things that Pam said was that we want to be thought of as amazing > if we > truly do something that is amazing. If someone who is blind let's say > wins > the nobel peace prize thaat is truly amazing whether or not they are > blind > or sighted. so what it is is that we want to be called amazing when we > as > blind people do something that is truly amazing. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:59 PM > To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > Misty, > I've gotten questions like that, too, and many reactions like the ones > you've described. For the one about walking around your own house, > that one especially makes me crazy. Like sighted people have never > stumbled to the bathroom in the middle of the night, in the dark? > Sometimes, I think people just lack common sense, which, frankly, is > becoming more and more uncommon. > As for the other situation you described, I don't know how I would > have handled that. you were right to walk away. When a person can't > take no for an answer, or "I'm fine, thank you", their issue goes far > deeper than just ignorance about your disability. You have to wonder > if they can set boundaries in their other relationships as well. It's > like the people who grab you as you're walking down the street, > minding your own business and walking purposefully, not lost or > anything. At least the ones who pity you but keep their distance have > some semblance of common sense, and of what personal space is. Those > other people, obviously, do not. > > On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Desiree, >> I agree with you. I can understand if the questions are not obvious, > such >> as >> how a blind person uses a computer or even how we travel, but I get > crazy >> questions like you have mentioned. The ones I get a lot are: >> "How do you cook?" >> "How do you clean?" >> "Who helps you around the house? You don't have ANYONE helping you?" >> Also, I notice that if I answer the questions with what I actually do > and >> that I don't have help, that person acts surprised and acts like it > is >> such >> a travesty that I live alone with my young daughter and have no help > or >> anyone doing everything for me, even so I have been on my own for > about 7 >> years now. When I explain that I do cook on my own, the person > responds >> very >> surprised and tells me, "Be careful, be careful when you cook!" I had > this >> experience just yesterday, and I found that my explanations got me > nowhere >> and just made them even more surprised and afraid I guess, and it > made me >> feel very frustrated, as if I was an invalid who needed constant, >> around-the-clock care or something. I was actually out yesterday, and >> after >> all of the questions this person asked me, the person proceeded to > not >> allow >> me to do anything for myself while there, even so I frequent that >> particular >> place at least once weekly and know how to get around it using my > cane. >> This >> person followed me absolutely everywhere and kept grabbing onto me and >> giving me unnecessary directions, even though I explained to her that > I >> knew >> the area and didn't need help, and the way she spoke to me was as if > I >> were >> a small child. I ended up leaving to go home early before everyone > else >> because I got fed up with the way I was being treated. I couldn't > even >> stand >> up out of my seat without being asked, "Where are you going?" and > being >> told >> to sit back down and that they would do whatever it was that I was > trying >> to >> do for me. >> Anyway, I hope I didn't digress from the topic at hand, but this just > goes >> to show that some people don't want to be educated about what blind > people >> can do and seem to want to contain the blind person into a box. I do > find >> that there are some that are genuinely curious and really want to be >> educated, but some, like the person I mentioned above, don't pay > attention >> to explanations of how you do things as a blind person or even think > that >> you can do things for yourself. I find this especially when dealing > with >> people, like this person above, from countries and cultures where > blind >> people are viewed as less or that they are not able to do anything for >> themselves without someone doing everything for them. >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Desiree Oudinot" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> >>> Hi, >>> I agree with what has been said here so far. Sighted people often >>> don't know how they would do something if they were blind. to them, >>> sight is 95% of their existance. I don't get offended by questions >>> such as how I use a computer, or how I travel independently. Those >>> kind of questions make sense, once you put yourself in their shoes. >>> For the average, nondisabled person, any kind of disability is >>> paralyzingly frightening. It's better to ease their minds, which > will, >>> hopefully, help them to understand what's possible for a blind person >>> to accomplish. If you remove the fear from a situation, it allows for >>> more clear thinking. what I have little tolerance for are the truly >>> ignorant questions, like how do you eat when You can't see? Or how > do >>> you go to the bathroom? Now, come on. the average sighted person > knows >>> that they're not watching their mouths while they eat, or watching >>> behind them after they take care of their business. Those kind of >>> questions are idiotic, and should be dealt with accordingly. Besides, >>> I don't think a sighted person would dare ask just any random > stranger >>> those questions, regardless of what they felt the person's abilities >>> and limits were. How is it all right for people to cross those >>> boundaries just because a person is blind? I feel violated when a >>> perfect stranger asks me questions like that out of the blue. >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Miso Kwak wrote: >>>> I get similar questions like "If you are blind how do you march in a >>>> marching band?" "How do you use Facebook?" >>>> I have never thought of them as offensive thought because I would be >>>> asking the same thing if I were in the shoes of those who ask me > such >>>> questions. >>>> I think it's important that we have an open mind and be equipped to >>>> explain and share. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Anna Givens >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that >>>> people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to > offend. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite >>>> each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>>> right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the >>>> baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men >>>> and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter > in >>>> the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with >>>> deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony >>>> accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes > in >>>> conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at >>>> this interracial gay couple. >>>>> >>>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>>> teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables > like >>>> rain, he asks me a very important question. >>>>> >>>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>>> >>>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>>> creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as > if it >>>> were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>>> sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly > realize >>>> that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a > Braille >>>> display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a >>>> computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he > never >>>> was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm >>>> blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to > answer >>>> all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut >>>> instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know > he >>>> can be if I just teach him. >>>>> >>>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>>> uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about > sighted >>>> people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me > like >>>> sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the > sighted >>>> people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question >>>> that's become a common one in the blindness community. >>>>> >>>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>>> >>>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >>>> point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness >>>> ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows >>>> everything, especially about a different way of living. They > shouldn’t >>>> know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>>> >>>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking >>>> the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>>> community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this >>>> applies to people with HIV and aids as well. >>>>> >>>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if > they >>>> exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed >>>> off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date > didn't >>>> even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a > cure. >>>>> >>>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. > Even >>>> today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion > and >>>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and > HIV >>>> community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin > a >>>> good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” > That >>>> divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we > asked >>>> ourselves at one point. >>>>> >>>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered >>>> if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field >>>> reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How > am >>>> I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I > figured >>>> out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past >>>> mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I > wouldn't >>>> have figured out the answer. >>>>> >>>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to > find >>>> out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know > now >>>> how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find > an >>>> answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, >>>> then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would > help >>>> someone else as well as me in the future. >>>>> >>>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer > to >>>> a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness > along >>>> with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, > and >>>> soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question > doesn't >>>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There > are >>>> a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not >>>> visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, > and >>>> others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. >>>>> >>>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >>>> want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>>> computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live > in >>>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the >>>> only way to end these “offensive questions.” >>>>> >>>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >>>> lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because > I've >>>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask > questions, >>>> and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re >>>> together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re > coming >>>> together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a > very >>>> long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable > education >>>> I could ever give. >>>>> >>>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive > voice >>>> then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at > questions. >>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >>>> can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open >>>> wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world > where >>>> we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for > equality >>>> and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a >>>> beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this >>>> positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. >>>>> >>>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and > other >>>> writing archives >>>>> */ >>>>> >>>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>>> >>>> > >>>> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> >>>> > >>>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>> >>>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>> > >>>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>> >>>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>>> / >>>> > * >>>>> >>>>> */ >>>>> /* >>>>> >>>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>>> >>>>> Facebook >>>> > >>>> kingett> Twitter >>>> > >>>> ter> LinkedIn >>>> > >>>> ngettr> YouTube >>>> > >>>> ingettspeaks> WordPress >>>> > >>>> s.com%2F> Blog RSS >>>> > >>>> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>>> > >>>> > ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- > >>>> theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >>>> Long Will I Cry? (play) >>>> > >>>> > com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% > >>>> 2F> >>>>> WordPress >>>> > >>>> s.com%2F> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & >>>> other news >>>> > >>>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>>> Read more >>>> > >>>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| > My >>>> blog >>>> > >>>> s.com%2F> >>>>> Share on Facebook >>>> > >>>> > php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 > >>>> F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> Share on >>>> Twitter >>>> > >>>> > eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 > >>>> 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>>> >>>>> Get this email app! >>>> > >>>> > Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor > >>>> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>>> >>>> > >>>> ngettr> >>>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>> > >>>> > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 > >>>> > %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ > >>>> > source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ > >>>> 10>Get yours >>>> > >>>> > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 > >>>> > %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ > >>>> > source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ > >>>> 10> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From lissa1531 at gmail.com Tue May 28 22:29:39 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 16:29:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com><005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: You are so right arielle. I don't know how to respond either to the amazing and other comments. Like you I try to educate them, or say something like its what I have to do to be successful my in life. I would say that not to be rude is also very helpful. I can't count the times that people have said to me that I treat them with respect and thank me for not being rude. then they tell me about a blind person that was rude and nasty to them. Here is something that I hav discovered. When I was using my cane people never said good cane!, taking care of your mama. With a dog, I get that a lot. Also, people expect the dog to be an ixebreaker. She isn't that for me at all. I know blind people who do say that their dogs made their social lives. I am not one of those people. I don't like it when people aproach me because now I have a dog, and I don't like it when people talk to the dog and not to me. Many people would say that I am strange for having these reactions. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already believe we can't do something and answering their question about how we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have at times. I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always stumped when some stranger tells me I am amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? Arielle On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: > Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL Just > to > chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm > sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird > writer > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each > other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a > woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she > missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us > making > their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and my > date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I > gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our > laughter > dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm > sure, > stare at this interracial gay couple. > > When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. > With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he asks > me a very important question. > > “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” > > Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping > towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a > chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted > person > away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never > seen > adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's > certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen > reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep > breath, > I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on my > face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, > instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in > my > world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. > > Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech > synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is uttered > without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and > their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets > that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us > how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common > one > in the blindness community. > > “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” > > When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point of > view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or > technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, > especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. > Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. > > Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the > right > doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who > tend > to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with > HIV > and aids as well. > > I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets offended > when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange > saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. Upon > further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV > did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. > > A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even > today, > the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and > acceptance, > even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In > today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship or > relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because > we > are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. > > When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it > would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. > I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be > a > journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers > with > trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have > let > my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. > > I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out > that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to > better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I > couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how > blissful > would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well > as > me in the future. > > I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a > question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along with > their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, > acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just > satisfy > curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other > positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. > Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, > such > as advocacy born from awareness. > > When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want > to > divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If > education breeds positive results then people who live in different > conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end > these “offensive questions.” > > The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives > in > an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived > through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each > answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. > With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in > a > way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. > He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever > give. > > If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then > we > can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. > Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, > if > asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough to > let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each > other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best > teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated world, > one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of > answering offensive questions. > > /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other > writing > archives */ > > *Click here to view my resume* > > > * > * > > *Click here to see my writing archive > * > > *Click here to view my website/ > / * > > */ > /* > > */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * > *Tel: 850 764 2161 * > > Facebook > > Twitter > > LinkedIn > > YouTube > > WordPress > > Blog RSS > > My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance > > My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long > Will > I Cry? (play) > > WordPress > > My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news > > > Read more > | > My blog > > Share on Facebook > >  Share on Twitter > > > > Get this email app! > > > > Designed with WiseStamp - > Get > yours > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Tue May 28 22:32:18 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 16:32:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com><005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: If I ruled the world. All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing things that they do to us to them. *dreamful sigh*. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Misty, What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just answered my original question the first time and then I could have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform various activities if they became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things done. That's it. Arielle On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Arielle, > I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I > usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just doing > what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if there > is > time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell them > that > I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted people > tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on their > own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing everything > for > them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life that > need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other daily > things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and independent > to > do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on > everyone > to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more freedom > and > flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can > understand > somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > >> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of >> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also >> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >> at times. >> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always >> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave >> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being >> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if >> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL >>> Just >>> >>> to >>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm >>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >>> writer >>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game >>> she >>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>> making >>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >>> my >>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as >>> I >>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>> laughter >>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >>> sure, >>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>> >>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >>> asks >>> me a very important question. >>> >>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>> >>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >>> person >>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >>> seen >>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>> breath, >>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >>> my >>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be >>> in >>> >>> my >>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>> >>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>> uttered >>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people >>> and >>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>> bullets >>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask >>> us >>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common >>> one >>> in the blindness community. >>> >>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>> >>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >>> of >>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>> >>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >>> right >>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >>> tend >>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >>> HIV >>> and aids as well. >>> >>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>> offended >>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >>> Upon >>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV >>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>> >>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>> today, >>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>> acceptance, >>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >>> or >>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because >>> we >>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >>> >>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if >>> it >>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to >>> be >>> >>> a >>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >>> with >>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >>> let >>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >>> >>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>> out >>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how >>> to >>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. >>> I >>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>> blissful >>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as >>> well >>> >>> as >>> me in the future. >>> >>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>> with >>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>> satisfy >>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other >>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>> immediately. >>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >>> such >>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>> >>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want >>> to >>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. >>> If >>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to >>> end >>> these “offensive questions.” >>> >>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives >>> in >>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>> lived >>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with >>> each >>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together >>> in >>> >>> a >>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could >>> ever >>> give. >>> >>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>> then >>> >>> we >>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, >>> if >>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >>> to >>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the >>> best >>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>> world, >>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result >>> of >>> answering offensive questions. >>> >>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>> writing >>> archives */ >>> >>> *Click here to view my resume* >>> >>> >>> * >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to view my website/ >>> / * >>> >>> */ >>> /* >>> >>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>> >>> Facebook >>> >>> Twitter >>> >>> LinkedIn >>> >>> YouTube >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> Blog RSS >>> >>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>> >>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >>> Will >>> I Cry? (play) >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>> >>> >>> Read more >>> | >>> My blog >>> >>> Share on Facebook >>> >>>  Share on Twitter >>> >>> >>> >>> Get this email app! >>> >>> >>> >>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>> Get >>> yours >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Tue May 28 22:39:17 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 18:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha I recommend a novel entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available on Bookshare. Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an interesting read for us blind people. In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did an activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the assigned small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted and blind-folded. The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall make sure the blind-folded gets fed. Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to be a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an educational activity. -----Original Message----- From: melissa Green To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions If I ruled the world. All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing things that they do to us to them. *dreamful sigh*. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Misty, What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just answered my original question the first time and then I could have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform various activities if they became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things done. That's it. Arielle On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Arielle, > I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I > usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just doing > what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if there > is > time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell them > that > I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted people > tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on their > own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing everything > for > them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life that > need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other daily > things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and independent > to > do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on > everyone > to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more freedom > and > flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can > understand > somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > >> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of >> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also >> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >> at times. >> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always >> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave >> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being >> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if >> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL >>> Just >>> >>> to >>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm >>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >>> writer >>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game >>> she >>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>> making >>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >>> my >>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as >>> I >>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>> laughter >>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >>> sure, >>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>> >>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >>> asks >>> me a very important question. >>> >>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>> >>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >>> person >>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >>> seen >>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>> breath, >>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >>> my >>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be >>> in >>> >>> my >>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>> >>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>> uttered >>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people >>> and >>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>> bullets >>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask >>> us >>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common >>> one >>> in the blindness community. >>> >>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>> >>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >>> of >>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>> >>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >>> right >>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >>> tend >>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >>> HIV >>> and aids as well. >>> >>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>> offended >>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >>> Upon >>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV >>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>> >>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>> today, >>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>> acceptance, >>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >>> or >>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because >>> we >>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >>> >>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if >>> it >>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to >>> be >>> >>> a >>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >>> with >>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >>> let >>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >>> >>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>> out >>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how >>> to >>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. >>> I >>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>> blissful >>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as >>> well >>> >>> as >>> me in the future. >>> >>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>> with >>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>> satisfy >>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other >>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>> immediately. >>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >>> such >>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>> >>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want >>> to >>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. >>> If >>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to >>> end >>> these “offensive questions.” >>> >>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives >>> in >>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>> lived >>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with >>> each >>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together >>> in >>> >>> a >>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could >>> ever >>> give. >>> >>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>> then >>> >>> we >>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, >>> if >>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >>> to >>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the >>> best >>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>> world, >>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result >>> of >>> answering offensive questions. >>> >>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>> writing >>> archives */ >>> >>> *Click here to view my resume* >>> >>> >>> * >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to view my website/ >>> / * >>> >>> */ >>> /* >>> >>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>> >>> Facebook >>> >>> Twitter >>> >>> LinkedIn >>> >>> YouTube >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> Blog RSS >>> >>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>> >>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >>> Will >>> I Cry? (play) >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>> >>> >>> Read more >>> | >>> My blog >>> >>> Share on Facebook >>> >>>  Share on Twitter >>> >>> >>> >>> Get this email app! >>> >>> >>> >>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>> Get >>> yours >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 28 22:42:55 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 16:42:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Message-ID: Hi all, I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells me I am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, even though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being told that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I don't think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my educational achievements and compared with many others my life has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel they are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about me, my upbringing or anything I've done. I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. just exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an inspiration is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled with a lot of internal and external demands. When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. When I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not to the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in our local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me to write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I eventually realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, but not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or poetry at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing was because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing before I eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me out to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to resent all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. But I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one hand, I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held to an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about my ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the crowd of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just boys) instead. Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" failed my algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were some problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like answering on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, I bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my algebra teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class at the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with my performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, I wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I could to succeed in school. OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as damaging as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and we have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted folks with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and weaknesses. Best, Arielle From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue May 28 22:45:41 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 16:45:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Um, have you finished reading the Blindness book? I haven't read it, but have been told that when the people go blind, they become so helpless that they defecate on the floor. Enough said. Arielle On 5/28/13, Miso Kwak wrote: > LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha > I recommend a novel entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available > on Bookshare. > Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an > interesting read for us blind people. > In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. > I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up > activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did an > activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the assigned > small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. > Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the > activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted > and blind-folded. > The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall make > sure the blind-folded gets fed. > Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to be > a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an > educational activity. > > -----Original Message----- > From: melissa Green > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > If I ruled the world. > All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. > The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing > things > that they do to us to them. > *dreamful sigh*. > > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson > facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > skype: lissa5674 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National > Association of > Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > > Misty, > What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, > was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you > were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? > If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the > manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask > questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds > like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, > and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter > on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I > do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen > to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For > example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a > restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had > been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid > the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on > the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, > but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get > back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to > be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and > say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there > barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had > been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had > just answered my original question the first time and then I could > have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. > I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of > all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm > doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I > sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I > will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they > would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? > As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted > people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has > been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, > adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these > doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order > to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, > or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of > these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn > the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people > looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one > of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people > how well they thought they could perform various activities if they > became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely > incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been > blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. > The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people > were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind > people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted > people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction > to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. > I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to > them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can > learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't > special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills > because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other > choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical > for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do > take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary > cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So > to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things > done. That's it. > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Arielle, >> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I >> usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just > doing >> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if > there >> is >> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell > them >> that >> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted > people >> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on > their >> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing > everything >> for >> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life > that >> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other > daily >> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and > independent >> to >> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >> everyone >> to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more > freedom >> and >> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >> understand >> somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students > mailing >> list" >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> >>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out > of >>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >>> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >>> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >>> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >>> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >>> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >>> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I > also >>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >>> at times. >>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am > always >>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or > brave >>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >>> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >>> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people > being >>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >>> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >>> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, > if >>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. > LOL >>>> Just >>>> >>>> to >>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written > post. I'm >>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The > weird >>>> writer >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite > each >>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate > right, a >>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball > game >>>> she >>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>>> making >>>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, > and >>>> my >>>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of > smell as >>>> I >>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>>> laughter >>>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, > I'm >>>> sure, >>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>> >>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a > teacher. >>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, > he >>>> asks >>>> me a very important question. >>>> >>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>> >>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of > creeping >>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were > a >>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive > sighted >>>> person >>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's > never >>>> seen >>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a > screen >>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>>> breath, >>>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge > smile on >>>> my >>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many > others, >>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not > be >>>> in >>>> >>>> my >>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>> >>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>>> uttered >>>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted > people >>>> and >>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>> bullets >>>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who > ask >>>> us >>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a > common >>>> one >>>> in the blindness community. >>>> >>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>> >>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted > point >>>> of >>>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows > everything, >>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know > better. >>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>> >>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking > the >>>> right >>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community > who >>>> tend >>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people > with >>>> HIV >>>> and aids as well. >>>> >>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>> offended >>>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they > exchange >>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, > hurt. >>>> Upon >>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know > what HIV >>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>> >>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. > Even >>>> today, >>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>> acceptance, >>>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV > community. In >>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good > friendship >>>> or >>>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows > because >>>> we >>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one > point. >>>> >>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered > if >>>> it >>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going > to >>>> be >>>> >>>> a >>>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the > answers >>>> with >>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would > have >>>> let >>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the > answer. >>>> >>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to > find >>>> out >>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now > how >>>> to >>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an > answer. >>>> I >>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>>> blissful >>>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else > as >>>> well >>>> >>>> as >>>> me in the future. >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer > to a >>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness > along >>>> with >>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and > soon, >>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>>> satisfy >>>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of > other >>>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>>> immediately. >>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far > off, >>>> such >>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>> >>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t > want >>>> to >>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a > computer. >>>> If >>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way > to >>>> end >>>> these “offensive questions.” >>>> >>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date > lives >>>> in >>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>>> lived >>>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and > with >>>> each >>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming > together >>>> in >>>> >>>> a >>>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I > could >>>> ever >>>> give. >>>> >>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive > voice >>>> then >>>> >>>> we >>>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we > can, >>>> if >>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide > enough >>>> to >>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know > each >>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace > the >>>> best >>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>>> world, >>>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the > result >>>> of >>>> answering offensive questions. >>>> >>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>>> writing >>>> archives */ >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>> > ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>> >>>> * >>>> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>> / > * >>>> >>>> */ >>>> /* >>>> >>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>> >>>> Facebook >>>> > kingett> >>>> Twitter >>>> > ter> >>>> LinkedIn >>>> > ngettr> >>>> YouTube >>>> > ingettspeaks> >>>> WordPress >>>> > s.com%2F> >>>> Blog RSS >>>> > om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>>> > ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- > theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How > Long >>>> Will >>>> I Cry? (play) >>>> > com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% > 2F> >>>> WordPress >>>> > s.com%2F> >>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>> > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>> >>>> Read more >>>> > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| >>>> My blog >>>> > s.com%2F> >>>> Share on Facebook >>>> > php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 > F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> >>>>  Share on Twitter >>>> > eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 > 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>> >>>> >>>> Get this email app! >>>> > Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor > dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>> >>>> > ngettr> >>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>> > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 > %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ > source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ > 10>Get >>>> yours >>>> > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 > %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ > source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ > 10> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue May 28 22:45:42 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 22:45:42 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> References: , <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: LOL! We did something similar in my class on the Family. They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle of cola, and get it to me. It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old fashioned bottle opener! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak [kwakmiso at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha I recommend a novel entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available on Bookshare. Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an interesting read for us blind people. In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did an activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the assigned small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted and blind-folded. The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall make sure the blind-folded gets fed. Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to be a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an educational activity. -----Original Message----- From: melissa Green To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions If I ruled the world. All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing things that they do to us to them. *dreamful sigh*. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Misty, What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just answered my original question the first time and then I could have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform various activities if they became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things done. That's it. Arielle On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Arielle, > I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I > usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just doing > what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if there > is > time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell them > that > I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted people > tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on their > own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing everything > for > them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life that > need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other daily > things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and independent > to > do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on > everyone > to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more freedom > and > flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can > understand > somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > >> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of >> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also >> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >> at times. >> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always >> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave >> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being >> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if >> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL >>> Just >>> >>> to >>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm >>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >>> writer >>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game >>> she >>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>> making >>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >>> my >>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as >>> I >>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>> laughter >>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >>> sure, >>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>> >>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >>> asks >>> me a very important question. >>> >>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>> >>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >>> person >>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >>> seen >>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>> breath, >>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >>> my >>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be >>> in >>> >>> my >>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>> >>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>> uttered >>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people >>> and >>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>> bullets >>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask >>> us >>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common >>> one >>> in the blindness community. >>> >>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>> >>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >>> of >>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>> >>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >>> right >>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >>> tend >>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >>> HIV >>> and aids as well. >>> >>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>> offended >>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >>> Upon >>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV >>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>> >>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>> today, >>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>> acceptance, >>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >>> or >>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because >>> we >>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >>> >>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if >>> it >>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to >>> be >>> >>> a >>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >>> with >>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >>> let >>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >>> >>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>> out >>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how >>> to >>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. >>> I >>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>> blissful >>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as >>> well >>> >>> as >>> me in the future. >>> >>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>> with >>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>> satisfy >>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other >>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>> immediately. >>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >>> such >>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>> >>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want >>> to >>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. >>> If >>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to >>> end >>> these “offensive questions.” >>> >>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives >>> in >>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>> lived >>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with >>> each >>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together >>> in >>> >>> a >>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could >>> ever >>> give. >>> >>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>> then >>> >>> we >>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, >>> if >>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >>> to >>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the >>> best >>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>> world, >>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result >>> of >>> answering offensive questions. >>> >>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>> writing >>> archives */ >>> >>> *Click here to view my resume* >>> >>> >>> * >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to view my website/ >>> / * >>> >>> */ >>> /* >>> >>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>> >>> Facebook >>> >>> Twitter >>> >>> LinkedIn >>> >>> YouTube >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> Blog RSS >>> >>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>> >>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >>> Will >>> I Cry? (play) >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>> >>> >>> Read more >>> | >>> My blog >>> >>> Share on Facebook >>> >>> Share on Twitter >>> >>> >>> >>> Get this email app! >>> >>> >>> >>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>> Get >>> yours >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From lissa1531 at gmail.com Tue May 28 22:50:19 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 16:50:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People References: Message-ID: <1A2D5F0029324601A0180B067729AA49@HP30910210001> I am thankful for those sighted people who had and still have high expectations for me. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Hi all, I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells me I am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, even though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being told that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I don't think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my educational achievements and compared with many others my life has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel they are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about me, my upbringing or anything I've done. I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. just exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an inspiration is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled with a lot of internal and external demands. When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. When I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not to the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in our local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me to write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I eventually realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, but not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or poetry at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing was because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing before I eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me out to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to resent all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. But I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one hand, I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held to an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about my ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the crowd of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just boys) instead. Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" failed my algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were some problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like answering on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, I bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my algebra teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class at the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with my performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, I wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I could to succeed in school. OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as damaging as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and we have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted folks with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and weaknesses. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue May 28 22:51:40 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 22:51:40 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: , <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com>, Message-ID: BTW, that book was terrible! There's alot of better stuff out there by Dr. TenBroek. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua Lester [JLester8462 at pccua.edu] Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions LOL! We did something similar in my class on the Family. They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle of cola, and get it to me. It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old fashioned bottle opener! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak [kwakmiso at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha I recommend a novel entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available on Bookshare. Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an interesting read for us blind people. In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did an activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the assigned small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted and blind-folded. The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall make sure the blind-folded gets fed. Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to be a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an educational activity. -----Original Message----- From: melissa Green To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions If I ruled the world. All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing things that they do to us to them. *dreamful sigh*. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Misty, What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just answered my original question the first time and then I could have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform various activities if they became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things done. That's it. Arielle On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Arielle, > I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I > usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just doing > what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if there > is > time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell them > that > I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted people > tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on their > own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing everything > for > them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life that > need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other daily > things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and independent > to > do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on > everyone > to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more freedom > and > flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can > understand > somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > >> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of >> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also >> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >> at times. >> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always >> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave >> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being >> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if >> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL >>> Just >>> >>> to >>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm >>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >>> writer >>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game >>> she >>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>> making >>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >>> my >>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as >>> I >>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>> laughter >>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >>> sure, >>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>> >>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >>> asks >>> me a very important question. >>> >>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>> >>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >>> person >>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >>> seen >>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>> breath, >>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >>> my >>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be >>> in >>> >>> my >>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>> >>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>> uttered >>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people >>> and >>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>> bullets >>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask >>> us >>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common >>> one >>> in the blindness community. >>> >>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>> >>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >>> of >>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>> >>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >>> right >>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >>> tend >>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >>> HIV >>> and aids as well. >>> >>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>> offended >>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >>> Upon >>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV >>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>> >>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>> today, >>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>> acceptance, >>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >>> or >>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because >>> we >>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >>> >>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if >>> it >>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to >>> be >>> >>> a >>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >>> with >>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >>> let >>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >>> >>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>> out >>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how >>> to >>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. >>> I >>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>> blissful >>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as >>> well >>> >>> as >>> me in the future. >>> >>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>> with >>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>> satisfy >>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other >>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>> immediately. >>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >>> such >>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>> >>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want >>> to >>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. >>> If >>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to >>> end >>> these “offensive questions.” >>> >>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives >>> in >>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>> lived >>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with >>> each >>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together >>> in >>> >>> a >>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could >>> ever >>> give. >>> >>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>> then >>> >>> we >>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, >>> if >>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >>> to >>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the >>> best >>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>> world, >>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result >>> of >>> answering offensive questions. >>> >>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>> writing >>> archives */ >>> >>> *Click here to view my resume* >>> >>> >>> * >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to view my website/ >>> / * >>> >>> */ >>> /* >>> >>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>> >>> Facebook >>> >>> Twitter >>> >>> LinkedIn >>> >>> YouTube >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> Blog RSS >>> >>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>> >>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >>> Will >>> I Cry? (play) >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>> >>> >>> Read more >>> | >>> My blog >>> >>> Share on Facebook >>> >>> Share on Twitter >>> >>> >>> >>> Get this email app! >>> >>> >>> >>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>> Get >>> yours >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From lissa1531 at gmail.com Tue May 28 23:04:28 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 17:04:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People References: Message-ID: <9FF3F37F544F4BF7904D6BBC1A0EA77A@HP30910210001> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would want to parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe the school. After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like everyone else. I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into the music room and sit in my chair. I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. No relying on others. It took me a while to get out of that thought process. When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. . I could go on and on about my childhood too. But I won't. I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made over me because of my blindness. When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as well as put a cap and gown on her. I said absolutely not! I would include her in my own way. That is what I did. I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. It was my choice and noone else's. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Hi all, I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells me I am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, even though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being told that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I don't think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my educational achievements and compared with many others my life has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel they are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about me, my upbringing or anything I've done. I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. just exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an inspiration is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled with a lot of internal and external demands. When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. When I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not to the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in our local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me to write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I eventually realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, but not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or poetry at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing was because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing before I eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me out to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to resent all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. But I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one hand, I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held to an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about my ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the crowd of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just boys) instead. Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" failed my algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were some problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like answering on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, I bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my algebra teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class at the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with my performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, I wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I could to succeed in school. OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as damaging as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and we have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted folks with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and weaknesses. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue May 28 23:25:42 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 19:25:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com><005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Melissa, actually your raaction sounds reasonable. you want people to speak to you not the dog or recognize your dog only. Great point that no one praises our canes; but they will say good dog all the time. I think when people do that, I'd say "don't disturb my working dog please." then talk about you. say your name and what you do to deflect attention of f the dog. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: melissa Green Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 6:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions You are so right arielle. I don't know how to respond either to the amazing and other comments. Like you I try to educate them, or say something like its what I have to do to be successful my in life. I would say that not to be rude is also very helpful. I can't count the times that people have said to me that I treat them with respect and thank me for not being rude. then they tell me about a blind person that was rude and nasty to them. Here is something that I hav discovered. When I was using my cane people never said good cane!, taking care of your mama. With a dog, I get that a lot. Also, people expect the dog to be an ixebreaker. She isn't that for me at all. I know blind people who do say that their dogs made their social lives. I am not one of those people. I don't like it when people aproach me because now I have a dog, and I don't like it when people talk to the dog and not to me. Many people would say that I am strange for having these reactions. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already believe we can't do something and answering their question about how we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have at times. I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always stumped when some stranger tells me I am amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? Arielle On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: > Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL Just > to > chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm > sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird > writer > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each > other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a > woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she > missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us > making > their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and my > date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I > gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our > laughter > dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm > sure, > stare at this interracial gay couple. > > When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. > With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he asks > me a very important question. > > “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” > > Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping > towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a > chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted > person > away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never > seen > adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's > certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen > reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep > breath, > I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on my > face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, > instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in > my > world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. > > Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech > synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is uttered > without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and > their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets > that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us > how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common > one > in the blindness community. > > “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” > > When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point of > view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or > technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, > especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. > Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. > > Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the > right > doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who > tend > to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with > HIV > and aids as well. > > I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets offended > when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange > saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. Upon > further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV > did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. > > A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even > today, > the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and > acceptance, > even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In > today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship or > relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because > we > are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. > > When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it > would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. > I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be > a > journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers > with > trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have > let > my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. > > I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out > that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to > better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I > couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how > blissful > would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well > as > me in the future. > > I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a > question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along with > their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, > acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just > satisfy > curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other > positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. > Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, > such > as advocacy born from awareness. > > When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want > to > divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If > education breeds positive results then people who live in different > conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end > these “offensive questions.” > > The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives > in > an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived > through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each > answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. > With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in > a > way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. > He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever > give. > > If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then > we > can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. > Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, > if > asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough to > let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each > other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best > teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated world, > one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of > answering offensive questions. > > /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other > writing > archives */ > > *Click here to view my resume* > > > * > * > > *Click here to see my writing archive > * > > *Click here to view my website/ > / * > > */ > /* > > */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * > *Tel: 850 764 2161 * > > Facebook > > Twitter > > LinkedIn > > YouTube > > WordPress > > Blog RSS > > My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance > > My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long > Will > I Cry? (play) > > WordPress > > My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news > > > Read more > | > My blog > > Share on Facebook > > Share on Twitter > > > > Get this email app! > > > > Designed with WiseStamp - > Get > yours > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From mistydbradley at gmail.com Wed May 29 00:39:39 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 20:39:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com><005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Melissa, I agree with you about not being rude, and also about having the dog and people thinking of it as social and an icebreaker, etc. I use my cane and don't have a dog, but I have a 5-year-old daughter that is with me when she is not in school, and people always tell her things like, "Be a good girl and help your mama out." Of course, I try to be polite and explain to them that I know the routes, and she is with me to be my daughter and not there to guide me. I had an interesting incident just this afternoon where I went to Walmart with my daughter and was waiting at the bus stop to go home, and there was a lady with her 12-year-old son waiting there also. My daughter has a harness that looks like a horse that I put on her so she will stay next to me and not run off, because she still doesn't always want to hold my hand when we are out on the street, in the store, or wherever we are. Well, the lady saw me with the backpack-looking safety strap on my daughter, and she told a fellow bus rider in a soft voice but one I could still hear, "Oh, she has to wear that harness because her mom is blind and she has to help her." I am guessing that the lady was comparing my daughter to a guide dog or something. I politely but quickly interjected that the safety strap is only to make sure that my daughter is safely beside me and doesn't run out into the street unexpectedly or that no one can just grab her and take off with her, etc. It is also used by sighted people, and I have even had sighted people ask me where I got it so they can use it with their small children to make sure they don't run off while they are out. After I said that, the lady thought about it and then she said to the fellow bus rider, "Oh yes, her mom must know where she is going, because she already knows that it is almost her stop." They were all surprised that I knew exactly where to get off without anyone telling me, because I am familiar with the route and all of the turns, etc. I get these comments about my daughter helping me, and they even tell her that she is a good pair of eyes for me, which irritates me sometimes, but I try to be polite anyway and explain that she doesn't have to help me, because I go out on my own a lot anyway, even when she is in school, without help. I hate it when people treat my daughter as if she is my personal assistant or servant or something, and I don't want my daughter to think she has to be that for me, especially when I am perfectly capable of doing things independently. Also, it is not her responsibility to help me, especially since she is still young. I don't think any sighted person would think of their kids that way, and they surely wouldn't want people treating their kids like personal assistants or servants, and I am sure that if any sighted person observing another sighted person treating their children in such a manner, they would be horrified. However, since I am blind, they seem to think it is OK for my daughter to have to be my personal helper/servant/pair of eyes. People come up with the strangest ideas and logic sometimes when it comes to blindness, and I am hoping that the encounter with me today taught this lady something about blind people that is positive instead of negative. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "melissa Green" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > You are so right arielle. > I don't know how to respond either to the amazing and other comments. > Like you I try to educate them, or say something like its what I have to > do > to be successful my in life. > I would say that not to be rude is also very helpful. > I can't count the times that people have said to me that I treat them with > respect and thank me for not being rude. > then they tell me about a blind person that was rude and nasty to them. > Here is something that I hav discovered. > When I was using my cane people never said good cane!, taking care of your > mama. > With a dog, I get that a lot. > Also, people expect the dog to be an ixebreaker. > She isn't that for me at all. > I know blind people who do say that their dogs made their social lives. > I am not one of those people. > I don't like it when people aproach me because now I have a dog, and I > don't > like it when people talk to the dog and not to me. > Many people would say that I am strange for having these reactions. > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson > facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > skype: lissa5674 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 6:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > > Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of > doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already > believe we can't do something and answering their question about how > we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or > whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of > curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. > However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and > at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want > well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions > inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also > agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a > question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be > addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any > questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have > at times. > I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always > stumped when some stranger tells me I am > amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to > respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also > attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave > just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank > you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by > thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being > amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just > ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I > will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if > time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL Just >> to >> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm >> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >> writer >> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she >> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >> making >> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >> my >> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I >> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >> laughter >> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >> sure, >> stare at this interracial gay couple. >> >> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >> asks >> me a very important question. >> >> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >> >> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >> person >> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >> seen >> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >> breath, >> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >> my >> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in >> my >> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >> >> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >> uttered >> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and >> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets >> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us >> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common >> one >> in the blindness community. >> >> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >> >> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >> of >> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >> >> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >> right >> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >> tend >> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >> HIV >> and aids as well. >> >> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >> offended >> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >> Upon >> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV >> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >> >> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >> today, >> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >> acceptance, >> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >> or >> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because >> we >> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >> >> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it >> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be >> a >> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >> with >> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >> let >> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >> >> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out >> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to >> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I >> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >> blissful >> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well >> as >> me in the future. >> >> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >> with >> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >> satisfy >> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other >> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. >> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >> such >> as advocacy born from awareness. >> >> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want >> to >> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If >> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end >> these “offensive questions.” >> >> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives >> in >> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived >> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each >> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in >> a >> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever >> give. >> >> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then >> we >> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, >> if >> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >> to >> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best >> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >> world, >> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of >> answering offensive questions. >> >> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >> writing >> archives */ >> >> *Click here to view my resume* >> >> >> * >> * >> >> *Click here to see my writing archive >> * >> >> *Click here to view my website/ >> / * >> >> */ >> /* >> >> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >> >> Facebook >> >> Twitter >> >> LinkedIn >> >> YouTube >> >> WordPress >> >> Blog RSS >> >> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >> >> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >> Will >> I Cry? (play) >> >> WordPress >> >> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >> >> >> Read more >> | >> My blog >> >> Share on Facebook >> >>  Share on Twitter >> >> >> >> Get this email app! >> >> >> >> Designed with WiseStamp - >> Get >> yours >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed May 29 00:46:57 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 18:46:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com> <005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, I think it's a lot worse for people to openly say that a child is helping their blind mom/dad out than it is to say that about a dog. It's untrue and insulting to say that about a dog too, but at least the dog doesn't understand the comments. A child does understand and it could be bad for the child to start thinking they should be helping their mom/dad because, as you said, it's not appropriate for kids to have that kind of responsibility. I'm glad you took the time to correct these people for your daughter's sake. Arielle On 5/28/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi Melissa, > I agree with you about not being rude, and also about having the dog and > people thinking of it as social and an icebreaker, etc. I use my cane and > don't have a dog, but I have a 5-year-old daughter that is with me when she > is not in school, and people always tell her things like, "Be a good girl > and help your mama out." Of course, I try to be polite and explain to them > that I know the routes, and she is with me to be my daughter and not there > to guide me. > I had an interesting incident just this afternoon where I went to Walmart > with my daughter and was waiting at the bus stop to go home, and there was a > lady with her 12-year-old son waiting there also. My daughter has a harness > that looks like a horse that I put on her so she will stay next to me and > not run off, because she still doesn't always want to hold my hand when we > are out on the street, in the store, or wherever we are. Well, the lady saw > me with the backpack-looking safety strap on my daughter, and she told a > fellow bus rider in a soft voice but one I could still hear, "Oh, she has to > wear that harness because her mom is blind and she has to help her." I am > guessing that the lady was comparing my daughter to a guide dog or > something. I politely but quickly interjected that the safety strap is only > to make sure that my daughter is safely beside me and doesn't run out into > the street unexpectedly or that no one can just grab her and take off with > her, etc. It is also used by sighted people, and I have even had sighted > people ask me where I got it so they can use it with their small children to > make sure they don't run off while they are out. After I said that, the lady > thought about it and then she said to the fellow bus rider, "Oh yes, her mom > must know where she is going, because she already knows that it is almost > her stop." They were all surprised that I knew exactly where to get off > without anyone telling me, because I am familiar with the route and all of > the turns, etc. I get these comments about my daughter helping me, and they > even tell her that she is a good pair of eyes for me, which irritates me > sometimes, but I try to be polite anyway and explain that she doesn't have > to help me, because I go out on my own a lot anyway, even when she is in > school, without help. I hate it when people treat my daughter as if she is > my personal assistant or servant or something, and I don't want my daughter > to think she has to be that for me, especially when I am perfectly capable > of doing things independently. Also, it is not her responsibility to help > me, especially since she is still young. I don't think any sighted person > would think of their kids that way, and they surely wouldn't want people > treating their kids like personal assistants or servants, and I am sure that > if any sighted person observing another sighted person treating their > children in such a manner, they would be horrified. However, since I am > blind, they seem to think it is OK for my daughter to have to be my personal > helper/servant/pair of eyes. > People come up with the strangest ideas and logic sometimes when it comes to > blindness, and I am hoping that the encounter with me today taught this lady > something about blind people that is positive instead of negative. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "melissa Green" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 6:29 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > >> You are so right arielle. >> I don't know how to respond either to the amazing and other comments. >> Like you I try to educate them, or say something like its what I have to >> do >> to be successful my in life. >> I would say that not to be rude is also very helpful. >> I can't count the times that people have said to me that I treat them with >> respect and thank me for not being rude. >> then they tell me about a blind person that was rude and nasty to them. >> Here is something that I hav discovered. >> When I was using my cane people never said good cane!, taking care of your >> mama. >> With a dog, I get that a lot. >> Also, people expect the dog to be an ixebreaker. >> She isn't that for me at all. >> I know blind people who do say that their dogs made their social lives. >> I am not one of those people. >> I don't like it when people aproach me because now I have a dog, and I >> don't >> like it when people talk to the dog and not to me. >> Many people would say that I am strange for having these reactions. >> Sincerely, >> Melissa and Pj >> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson >> facebook Melissa R Green >> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >> skype: lissa5674 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 6:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> >> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of >> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also >> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >> at times. >> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always >> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave >> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being >> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if >> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL Just >>> to >>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm >>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >>> writer >>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she >>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>> making >>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >>> my >>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I >>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>> laughter >>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >>> sure, >>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>> >>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >>> asks >>> me a very important question. >>> >>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>> >>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >>> person >>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >>> seen >>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>> breath, >>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >>> my >>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in >>> my >>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>> >>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>> uttered >>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and >>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets >>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us >>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common >>> one >>> in the blindness community. >>> >>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>> >>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >>> of >>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>> >>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >>> right >>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >>> tend >>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >>> HIV >>> and aids as well. >>> >>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>> offended >>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >>> Upon >>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV >>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>> >>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>> today, >>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>> acceptance, >>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >>> or >>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because >>> we >>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >>> >>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it >>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be >>> a >>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >>> with >>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >>> let >>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >>> >>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out >>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to >>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I >>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>> blissful >>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well >>> as >>> me in the future. >>> >>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>> with >>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>> satisfy >>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other >>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. >>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >>> such >>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>> >>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want >>> to >>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If >>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end >>> these “offensive questions.” >>> >>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives >>> in >>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived >>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each >>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in >>> a >>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever >>> give. >>> >>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then >>> we >>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, >>> if >>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >>> to >>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best >>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>> world, >>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of >>> answering offensive questions. >>> >>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>> writing >>> archives */ >>> >>> *Click here to view my resume* >>> >>> >>> * >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>> * >>> >>> *Click here to view my website/ >>> / * >>> >>> */ >>> /* >>> >>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>> >>> Facebook >>> >>> Twitter >>> >>> LinkedIn >>> >>> YouTube >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> Blog RSS >>> >>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>> >>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >>> Will >>> I Cry? (play) >>> >>> WordPress >>> >>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>> >>> >>> Read more >>> | >>> My blog >>> >>> Share on Facebook >>> >>>  Share on Twitter >>> >>> >>> >>> Get this email app! >>> >>> >>> >>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>> Get >>> yours >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From annajee82 at gmail.com Wed May 29 00:51:49 2013 From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 20:51:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Is Anyone Looking For A Roomate For Convention? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E094001-C125-4806-AA64-5BED69A726B7@gmail.com> Who are you rooming with? Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2013, at 1:38 AM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi Anna, Hannah and Everyone: > > I found a roomate. > Thank you so much for the offers though!! Maybe we can room together > in the future!! > Again, I really appreciate the offers!! > Thanks, > Kerri > > On 5/25/13, Anna Givens wrote: >> Did u find one? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Kerri Kosten wrote: >> >>> Hi Everyone: >>> >>> I am planning to attend national convention in Orlando. I called the >>> hotel yesterday to reserve a room and they are sold out. >>> So, I was wondering if anyone has a room reserved and is looking for a >>> roomate? >>> Either respond on-list, or email me off-list. >>> Thanks so much! >>> Kerri >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Wed May 29 01:37:29 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 21:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D02A243706CA01-1C24-2665E@webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com> Yes, the novel Blindness portrays blind people as uncivilized people. It was an assigned reading for summer assignment for my AP Literature class. We had 5 or 6 journal topics for the summer then in class discussion and the activity I described previously. On the surface level, I didn't like the book much either but it's rather symbolically meaningful. It portrays human society and instinct. It's not necessarily wrong but we shouldn't think such a book is horrible just because the author illustrated blindness as some terrible thing. What I enjoyed the most about the book was how I was able to contribute to the class discussions and talk about my perspective. From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed May 29 01:43:33 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 20:43:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions Message-ID: <51a55d4a.2b56ec0a.28e2.ffffe71b@mx.google.com> Melissa,=20while=20I=20had=20to=20laugh=20at=20your=20funny=20email,=20I=20= disagree=20 with=20you.=20If=20we=20want=20sighties=20to=20stop=20patronizing=20us,=20w= e=20have=20to=20 be=20polite=20and=20respectful=20to=20them.=20If=20we=20don't=20educate=20t= hem=20and=20 instead=20be=20rude=20to=20them=20and=20patronize=20them,=20no=20progress=20= will=20be=20 made.=20I=20know=20it's=20hard.=20I=20know=20it's=20not=20been=20easy=20to= =20be=20 respectful=20and=20patient.=20Sometimes,=20when=20I'm=20reading=20or=20writ= ing=20 and=20someone=20asks=20me=20ten=20billion=20questions=20about=20my=20braill= enote=20 like=20it's=20some=20kind=20of=20machine=20from=20outer=20space,=20I=20just= =20wanna=20 say,=20"I'm=20busy=20here.=20Leave=20me=20alone."=20But=20because=20I=20wan= t=20them=20to=20 know=20that=20I=20can=20do=20anything=20they=20can=20do=20and=20to=20prove= =20that=20my=20 blindness=20doesn't=20make=20me=20an=20antisocial=20psychopath,=20I=20stop= =20and=20 briefly=20explain=20my=20braillenote=20to=20them.=20The=20same=20goes=20for= =20my=20 iPhone=20with=20voiceover=20or=20anything=20else=20I=20use=20or=20do.=20Pat= ience=20can=20 get=20us=20places.=20After=20all,=20a=20lot=20of=20times=20sighties=20have= =20to=20explain=20 things=20to=20us=20(or=20at=20least=20to=20me)=20about=20things=20like=20co= lors=20and=20 fashion.=20All=20I'm=20saying=20is,=20treat=20others=20how=20you=20wanna=20= be=20 treated. =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20"melissa=20Green"=20;=20"National=20 Association=20of Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"=20=20wrote:= =20Arielle, =20I=20get=20those=20same=20comments=20about=20being=20"amazing"=20or=20"in= spiring"=20 also.=20I =20usually=20just=20respond=20by=20saying=20that=20I=20am=20a=20normal=20pe= rson=20who=20is=20 just=20doing =20what=20they=20need=20to=20do=20in=20life.=20I=20try=20to=20explain=20als= o=20how=20I=20do=20it=20 if=20there =20is =20time,=20but=20usually=20I=20do=20not=20know=20what=20to=20say=20either,= =20so=20I=20just=20 tell=20them =20that =20I=20just=20do=20what=20I=20need=20to=20do=20like=20other=20people=20do.= =20A=20lot=20of=20 sighted=20people =20tell=20me=20that=20they=20could=20never=20travel=20independently=20or=20= do=20 anything=20on=20their =20own=20if=20they=20were=20blind=20and=20that=20they=20would=20have=20some= one=20doing=20 everything =20for =20them=20all=20of=20the=20time.=20I=20just=20tell=20them=20that=20there=20= are=20things=20in=20 life=20that =20need=20to=20get=20done,=20such=20as=20grocery=20shopping,=20working,=20a= nd=20many=20 other=20daily =20things,=20and=20it=20is=20much=20easier=20and=20makes=20me=20feel=20more= =20free=20and=20 independent =20to =20do=20these=20things=20when=20I=20want=20to=20do=20them=20instead=20of=20= always=20relying=20 on =20everyone =20to=20take=20me=20or=20do=20it=20for=20me=20on=20their=20own=20time.=20I= =20have=20a=20lot=20more=20 freedom =20and =20flexibility=20that=20way.=20Sometimes,=20when=20I=20put=20it=20that=20wa= y,=20they=20 can =20understand =20somewhat=20what=20I=20mean,=20and=20they=20will=20tell=20me=20so. =20Misty =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- =20From:=20"Arielle=20Silverman"=20;=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20 Students=20mailing =20list"=20=20wrote: =20Damn,=20this=20stupid=20JAWS=20thing=20isn't=20letting=20me=20respond=20= to=20sender.=20 LOL =20Just =20to =20chime=20in=20that=20I=20thought=20this=20was=20an=20excellent=20and=20we= ll-written=20 post.=20I'm =20sure=20you're=20a=20superb=20journalist.--Joe =20-----Original=20Message----- =20From:=20nabs-l=20[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]=20On=20Behalf=20Of=20= The=20 weird =20writer =20Sent:=20Saturday,=20May=2025,=202013=201:40=20AM =20To:=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20offensive=20questions =20The=20restaurant=20bustles=20with=20activity=20as=20my=20date=20and=20I= =20sit=20 opposite=20each =20other,=20talking=20about=20ourselves=20and=20what=20we=20do.=20To=20my=20= immediate=20 right,=20a =20woman=20is=20talking=20to=20her=20mom=20on=20her=20cell=20phone=20about= =20the=20baseball=20 game =20she =20missed.=20Different=20smells=20bounce=20off=20my=20nose=20as=20men=20and= =20women=20 pass=20us =20making =20their=20way=20to=20their=20tables.=20Dishes=20clatter=20in=20the=20kitch= en=20behind=20 me,=20and =20my =20date=E2=80=99s=20cologne,=20masked=20over=20with=20deodorant,=20sprays=20= my=20sense=20of=20 smell=20as =20I =20gaze=20towards=20his=20ebony=20accented=20voice.=20We=E2=80=99re=20chatt= ing=20 jovially,=20our =20laughter =20dicing=20holes=20in=20conversations=20around=20us,=20making=20people=20s= top,=20 and,=20I'm =20sure, =20stare=20at=20this=20interracial=20gay=20couple. =20When=20the=20dishes=20come,=20we=20get=20into=20the=20topic=20of=20caree= rs.=20He's=20a=20 teacher. =20With=20a=20mouth=20full,=20and=20hesitation=20dotting=20his=20syllables= =20like=20 rain,=20he =20asks =20me=20a=20very=20important=20question. =20=E2=80=9CIf=20you=E2=80=99re=20blind,=20how=20can=20you=20be=20a=20journ= alist?=E2=80=9D =20Instantly=20the=20talons=20rise,=20and=20my=20fingers=20toy=20with=20the= =20idea=20of=20 creeping =20towards=20his=20throat.=20A=20dozen=20retorts=20bang=20into=20my=20head= =20as=20if=20it=20 were=20a =20chamber=20full=20of=20bullets,=20ready=20to=20blast=20this=20rude=20inse= nsitive=20 sighted =20person =20away.=20After=20a=20split=20second=20however,=20I=20suddenly=20realize=20= that=20he's=20 never =20seen =20adaptive=20technology,=20and=20he's=20never=20seen=20a=20Braille=20displ= ay,=20and=20 he's =20certainly=20never=20seen=20a=20victor=20reader=20stream=20or=20a=20compu= ter=20with=20a=20 screen =20reader=20before.=20He's=20not=20in=20my=20world=20and=20he=20never=20was= .=20Taking=20a=20 deep =20breath, =20I=20explain=20how=20I'm=20a=20journalist=20when=20I'm=20blind,=20all=20w= ith=20a=20huge=20 smile=20on =20my =20face.=20The=20reason=20I=20choose=20to=20answer=20all=20his=20questions,= =20and=20many=20 others, =20instead=20of=20following=20my=20gut=20instinct=20to=20be=20sarcastic=20i= s,=20he=20may=20 not=20be =20in =20my =20world,=20but=20I=20know=20he=20can=20be=20if=20I=20just=20teach=20him. =20Whenever=20I=20hang=20around=20blind=20people=20and=20we=20make=20jokes= =20about=20 speech =20synthesizers=20that=20sighted=20people=20wouldn't=20understand=20a=20sen= tence=20 is =20uttered =20without=20fail.=20Sooner=20or=20later,=20we=20get=20to=20talking=20about= =20sighted=20 people =20and =20their=20lack=20of=20blindness=20knowledge.=20The=20words=20fly=20at=20me= =20like=20 sharp =20bullets =20that=20are=20not=20meant=20for=20me.=20They=E2=80=99re=20angry=20at=20th= e=20sighted=20people=20 who=20ask =20us =20how=20we=20type=20on=20a=20computer.=20It's=20an=20angry=20question=20th= at's=20become=20 a=20common =20one =20in=20the=20blindness=20community. =20=E2=80=9CThey=20should=20know=20better.=20Why=20are=20they=20so=20stupid= ?=E2=80=9D =20When=20that's=20uttered,=20I=20immediately=20see=20things=20through=20th= e=20 sighted=20point =20of =20view.=20The=20truth=20is,=20they=20won=E2=80=99t=20be=20an=20expert=20ab= out=20blindness=20 ways=20or =20technology.=20They=20shouldn=E2=80=99t=20know=20better=20because=20no=20= one=20knows=20 everything, =20especially=20about=20a=20different=20way=20of=20living.=20They=20shouldn= =E2=80=99t=20 know=20better. =20Instead,=20we=20have=20to=20get=20angry=20less,=20and=20educate=20more. =20Education=20is=20the=20key=20of=20knowledge=20that=20will=20turn=20itsel= f,=20 unlocking=20the =20right =20doors=20if=20the=20right=20direction=20is=20given.=20Among=20the=20disab= led=20 community=20who =20tend =20to=20get=20angry=20when=20they're=20asked=20to=20educate,=20this=20appli= es=20to=20 people=20with =20HIV =20and=20aids=20as=20well. =20I've=20seen=20countless=20instances=20where=20someone=20with=20HIV=20or= =20AIDS=20 gets =20offended =20when=20a=20potential=20partner=20asks=20him=20if=20he=20will=20contract= =20if=20they=20 exchange =20saliva.=20The=20contracted=20person=20became=20offended,=20and=20stormed= =20off,=20 hurt. =20Upon =20further=20investigation,=20I=20learned=20that=20his=20date=20didn't=20ev= en=20know=20 what=20HIV =20did.=20He=20didn't=20even=20know=20that=20it=20didn't=20have=20a=20cure.= =20A=20lot=20of=20people=20say=20ignorance=20is=20bliss,=20but=20it's=20als= o=20a=20divider.=20 Even =20today, =20the=20biggest=20hurtle=20that=20we=20all=20have=20to=20overcome=20is=20i= nclusion=20and =20acceptance, =20even=20among=20the=20gay=20community,=20disabled=20community,=20and=20HI= V=20 community.=20In =20today's=20day=20and=20age,=20just=20simple=20curiosity=20could=20ruin=20= a=20good=20 friendship =20or =20relationship=20because=20of=20=E2=80=9Coffensive=20questions.=E2=80=9D=20= That=20divide=20 grows=20because =20we =20are=20easily=20offended=20at=20the=20questions=20we=20asked=20ourselves= =20at=20one=20 point. =20When=20I=20was=20learning=20the=20bus=20route=20for=20my=20daily=20commu= tes,=20I=20 wondered=20if =20it =20would=20even=20work,=20me=20having=20to=20travel=20on=20the=20bus=20for= =20field=20 reporting. =20I've=20asked=20the=20same=20question=20as=20my=20restaurant=20date.=20=E2= =80=9CHow=20am=20I=20 going=20to =20be =20a =20journalist?=E2=80=9D=20with=20patience,=20and=20persistence,=20I=20figur= ed=20out=20the=20 answers =20with =20trial=20and=20error=20and=20learning=20from=20my=20own=20past=20mistakes= .=20If=20I=20 would=20have =20let =20my=20own=20question=20offend=20me=20then=20I=20wouldn't=20have=20figured= =20out=20the=20 answer. =20I=20don't=20have=20HIV=20but=20I=20had=20to=20ask=20the=20above=20questi= on=20in=20order=20to=20 find =20out =20that=20you=20can't=20get=20HIV=20from=20a=20small=20exchange=20of=20sali= va.=20I=20know=20 now=20how =20to =20better=20do=20my=20job=20as=20a=20blind=20journalist=20because=20I=20had= =20to=20find=20an=20 answer. =20I =20couldn't=20let=20those=20two=20questions=20go=20unanswered.=20If=20I=20d= id,=20then=20 how =20blissful =20would=20I=20be,=20ignorant=20about=20knowledge=20that=20would=20help=20s= omeone=20 else=20as =20well =20as =20me=20in=20the=20future. =20I=20don't=20think=20anyone=20should=20remain=20in=20the=20dark=20if=20I= =20have=20an=20 answer=20to=20a =20question.=20Answers,=20with=20all=20their=20simplicity=20sprinkle=20awar= eness=20 along =20with =20their=20validity.=20Not=20far=20behind=20awareness=20comes=20understandi= ng,=20 and=20soon, =20acceptance.=20An=20answer=20to=20a=20seemingly=20offensive=20question=20= doesn't=20 just =20satisfy =20curiosity=20but=20it=20opens=20up=20a=20door=20to=20understand.=20There= =20are=20a=20lot=20 of=20other =20positive=20things=20behind=20that=20door=20even=20if=20they=E2=80=99re=20= not=20visible =20immediately. =20Some=20effects=20are=20immediate,=20such=20as=20inclusion,=20and=20other= s=20are=20 far=20off, =20such =20as=20advocacy=20born=20from=20awareness. =20When=20I=20look=20around=20and=20see=20a=20world=20that's=20divided=20as= =20it=20is,=20I=20 don=E2=80=99t=20want =20to =20divide=20it=20even=20more=20just=20because=20someone=20asks=20me=20how=20= I=20use=20a=20 computer. =20If =20education=20breeds=20positive=20results=20then=20people=20who=20live=20i= n=20 different =20conditions=20should=20educate=20others=20how=20they=20do=20it.=20it's=20= the=20only=20 way=20to =20end =20these=20=E2=80=9Coffensive=20questions.=E2=80=9D =20The=20goal=20of=20inclusion=20is=20to=20do=20just=20that,=20include.=20M= y=20sighted=20 date=20lives =20in =20an=20ethnic=20world=20I'll=20never=20completely=20understand=20because=20= I've=20 never =20lived =20through=20the=20discriminatory=20history=20but=20I=20can=20ask=20questio= ns,=20and=20 with =20each =20answer,=20I'm=20no=20longer=20on=20the=20outside=20anymore.=20We=E2=80=99= re=20together. =20With=20every=20answer=20I=20give=20about=20my=20adaptive=20life,=20we=E2= =80=99re=20coming=20 together =20in =20a =20way=20that=20offended=20people=20won=E2=80=99t=20be=20able=20to=20do=20f= or=20a=20very=20long=20 time. =20He=20understands=20me=20now=20and=20that's=20the=20most=20valuable=20edu= cation=20I=20 could =20ever =20give. =20If=20people=20really=20want=20to=20have=20us=20unite=20to=20stand=20for= =20a=20positive=20 voice =20then =20we =20can't=20widen=20the=20distance=20because=20we=E2=80=99re=20offended=20at= =20questions. =20Instead,=20we=20should=20open=20our=20world=20to=20people=20and=20share= =20as=20much=20as=20 we=20can, =20if =20asked.=20If=20we=20keep=20doing=20that=20I=20know=20that=20the=20door=20= will=20open=20wide=20 enough =20to =20let=20all=20of=20us=20through=20to=20a=20better=20world,=20a=20world=20w= here=20we=20all=20 know=20each =20other,=20stand=20for=20one=20another,=20and=20unite=20for=20equality=20a= nd=20embrace=20 the =20best =20teacher=20of=20all,=20differences.=20That=20would=20make=20a=20beautiful= ly=20 educated =20world, =20one=20where=20I=E2=80=99d=20be=20happy=20to=20say=20that=20this=20positi= ve=20change=20was=20 the=20result =20of =20answering=20offensive=20questions. =20/*See=20below=20for=20resume,=20writing=20links,=20social=20media=20link= s,=20and=20 other =20writing =20archives=20*/ =20*Click=20here=20to=20view=20my=20resume* =20 * =20*Click=20here=20to=20see=20my=20writing=20archive =20 * =20*Click=20here=20to=20view=20my=20website/ =20/=20 * =20*/ =20/* =20*/writer=20for=20Chicago=20Theater=20Beat/=20* =20*Tel:=20850=20764=202161=20* =20Facebook =20 | =20My=20blog =20 Get =20yours =20 References: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: When I was still in public school, I believe it was in eighth grade, my English teacher wanted us all to come in as disabled students for a day. Most kids either shoved earplugs in their ears to simulate deafness, or had to write on paper all day to simulate muteness. It was sickening, and I usually am not bothered by things like that. It was just such a crude representation that it made it completely unrealistic. When I asked if I could come in as myself, I was told, very sternly, that that would be unacceptable. So I just shoved earplugs in my ears like everyone else. Then, when we had to write a paper about our experiences, I told that teacher how I really felt, and failed the project. On 5/28/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > LOL! > We did something similar in my class on the Family. > They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle of cola, > and get it to me. > It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old fashioned > bottle opener! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak > [kwakmiso at aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha > I recommend a novel entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available > on Bookshare. > Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an > interesting read for us blind people. > In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. > I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up > activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did an > activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the assigned > small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. > Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the > activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted > and blind-folded. > The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall make > sure the blind-folded gets fed. > Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to be > a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an > educational activity. > > -----Original Message----- > From: melissa Green > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > If I ruled the world. > All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. > The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing > things > that they do to us to them. > *dreamful sigh*. > > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson > facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > skype: lissa5674 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National > Association of > Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > > Misty, > What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, > was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you > were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? > If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the > manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask > questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds > like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, > and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter > on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I > do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen > to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For > example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a > restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had > been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid > the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on > the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, > but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get > back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to > be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and > say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there > barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had > been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had > just answered my original question the first time and then I could > have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. > I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of > all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm > doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I > sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I > will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they > would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? > As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted > people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has > been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, > adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these > doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order > to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, > or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of > these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn > the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people > looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one > of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people > how well they thought they could perform various activities if they > became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely > incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been > blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. > The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people > were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind > people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted > people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction > to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. > I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to > them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can > learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't > special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills > because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other > choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical > for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do > take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary > cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So > to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things > done. That's it. > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Arielle, >> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I >> usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just > doing >> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if > there >> is >> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell > them >> that >> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted > people >> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on > their >> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing > everything >> for >> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life > that >> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other > daily >> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and > independent >> to >> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >> everyone >> to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more > freedom >> and >> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >> understand >> somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students > mailing >> list" >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> >>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out > of >>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >>> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >>> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >>> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >>> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >>> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >>> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I > also >>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >>> at times. >>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am > always >>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or > brave >>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >>> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >>> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people > being >>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >>> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >>> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, > if >>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. > LOL >>>> Just >>>> >>>> to >>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written > post. I'm >>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The > weird >>>> writer >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite > each >>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate > right, a >>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball > game >>>> she >>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>>> making >>>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, > and >>>> my >>>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of > smell as >>>> I >>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>>> laughter >>>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, > I'm >>>> sure, >>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>> >>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a > teacher. >>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, > he >>>> asks >>>> me a very important question. >>>> >>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>> >>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of > creeping >>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were > a >>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive > sighted >>>> person >>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's > never >>>> seen >>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a > screen >>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>>> breath, >>>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge > smile on >>>> my >>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many > others, >>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not > be >>>> in >>>> >>>> my >>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>> >>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>>> uttered >>>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted > people >>>> and >>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>> bullets >>>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who > ask >>>> us >>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a > common >>>> one >>>> in the blindness community. >>>> >>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>> >>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted > point >>>> of >>>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows > everything, >>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know > better. >>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>> >>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking > the >>>> right >>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community > who >>>> tend >>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people > with >>>> HIV >>>> and aids as well. >>>> >>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>> offended >>>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they > exchange >>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, > hurt. >>>> Upon >>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know > what HIV >>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>> >>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. > Even >>>> today, >>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>> acceptance, >>>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV > community. In >>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good > friendship >>>> or >>>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows > because >>>> we >>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one > point. >>>> >>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered > if >>>> it >>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going > to >>>> be >>>> >>>> a >>>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the > answers >>>> with >>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would > have >>>> let >>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the > answer. >>>> >>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to > find >>>> out >>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now > how >>>> to >>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an > answer. >>>> I >>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>>> blissful >>>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else > as >>>> well >>>> >>>> as >>>> me in the future. >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer > to a >>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness > along >>>> with >>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and > soon, >>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>>> satisfy >>>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of > other >>>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>>> immediately. >>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far > off, >>>> such >>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>> >>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t > want >>>> to >>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a > computer. >>>> If >>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way > to >>>> end >>>> these “offensive questions.” >>>> >>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date > lives >>>> in >>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>>> lived >>>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and > with >>>> each >>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming > together >>>> in >>>> >>>> a >>>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I > could >>>> ever >>>> give. >>>> >>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive > voice >>>> then >>>> >>>> we >>>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we > can, >>>> if >>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide > enough >>>> to >>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know > each >>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace > the >>>> best >>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>>> world, >>>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the > result >>>> of >>>> answering offensive questions. >>>> >>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>>> writing >>>> archives */ >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>> > ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>> >>>> * >>>> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>> / > * >>>> >>>> */ >>>> /* >>>> >>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>> >>>> Facebook >>>> > kingett> >>>> Twitter >>>> > ter> >>>> LinkedIn >>>> > ngettr> >>>> YouTube >>>> > ingettspeaks> >>>> WordPress >>>> > s.com%2F> >>>> Blog RSS >>>> > om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>>> > ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- > theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How > Long >>>> Will >>>> I Cry? 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However, I think it's a shame that Saramago chose a real condition, blindness, to illustrate his concepts. Blindness is a condition that affects real people who are sensitive to how they are portrayed in literature and other forms of media. What would happen if a book were published in which everyone's skin became black and this led to them becoming uncivilized? I doubt it would be distributed in today's AP lit classes. I know you just read it for school, but it's something to think about. I'm also disappointed that your class engaged in blindfolded activities where the blindfolded had to depend on the sighted for help. What kind of impression did this give your classmates about what blind people are capable of doing? We've just talked here about how sighted people think they would be helpless if blind and this underlies a lot of their patronizing behavior. How might their experience of needing to be guided everywhere have affected their beliefs about blindness or about you as their blind classmate? It's nice to be in a situation where the tables are turned and you as the blind person are taking the lead in educating people, but I wish this could have happened without the blindfolding and helplessness of your classmates. Miso, I'm not criticizing you; I'm just critiquing how your teacher handled blindness in your class. I think there could have been a better way, one that communicates a realistic view of what it's like to be blind. Arielle On 5/28/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Melissa, while I had to laugh at your funny email, I disagree > with you. If we want sighties to stop patronizing us, we have to > be polite and respectful to them. If we don't educate them and > instead be rude to them and patronize them, no progress will be > made. I know it's hard. I know it's not been easy to be > respectful and patient. Sometimes, when I'm reading or writing > and someone asks me ten billion questions about my braillenote > like it's some kind of machine from outer space, I just wanna > say, "I'm busy here. Leave me alone." But because I want them to > know that I can do anything they can do and to prove that my > blindness doesn't make me an antisocial psychopath, I stop and > briefly explain my braillenote to them. The same goes for my > iPhone with voiceover or anything else I use or do. Patience can > get us places. After all, a lot of times sighties have to explain > things to us (or at least to me) about things like colors and > fashion. All I'm saying is, treat others how you wanna be > treated. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "melissa Green" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 28 May 2013 16:32:18 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > If I ruled the world. > All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. > The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing > things > that they do to us to them. > *dreamful sigh*. > > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson > facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > skype: lissa5674 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National > Association of > Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > > Misty, > What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may > ask, > was this offending person an employee at an establishment where > you > were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social > group? > If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the > manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask > questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it > sounds > like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be > treated, > and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I > encounter > on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes > if I > do need some information and ask a question, they don't really > listen > to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For > example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get > to a > restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it > had > been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to > avoid > the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back > on > the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been > removed, > but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me > get > back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for > me to > be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him > and > say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are > there > barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the > barricades had > been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he > had > just answered my original question the first time and then I > could > have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. > I also think the patronizing actions of others are most > frustrating of > all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me > I'm > doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I > sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them > that I > will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if > they > would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? > As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted > people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It > has > been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and > would, > adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of > these > doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in > order > to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into > depression, > or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but > most of > these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to > learn > the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted > people > looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In > one > of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted > people > how well they thought they could perform various activities if > they > became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely > incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been > blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any > training. > The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind > people > were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind > people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted > people think about how they would do it and then use that > prediction > to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing > blind. > I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across > to > them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone > can > learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't > special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these > skills > because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other > choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not > practical > for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we > do > take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort > (monetary > cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). > So > to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get > things > done. That's it. > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Arielle, > I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" > also. I > usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is > just doing > what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it > if there > is > time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just > tell them > that > I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of > sighted people > tell me that they could never travel independently or do > anything on their > own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing > everything > for > them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in > life that > need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many > other daily > things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and > independent > to > do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying > on > everyone > to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more > freedom > and > flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they > can > understand > somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students mailing > list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > > Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions > out of > doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already > believe we can't do something and answering their question about > how > we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second > date, or > whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out > of > curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. > However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the > doubt and > at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want > well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their > questions > inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. > I also > agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a > question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be > addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any > questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others > have > at times. > I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am > always > stumped when some stranger tells me I am > amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how > to > respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also > attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or > brave > just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say > "thank > you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel > like by > thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people > being > amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself > just > ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other > times I > will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I > use, if > time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: > Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. > LOL > Just > > to > chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written > post. I'm > sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The > weird > writer > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit > opposite each > other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate > right, a > woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball > game > she > missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women > pass us > making > their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind > me, and > my > date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of > smell as > I > gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting > jovially, our > laughter > dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, > and, I'm > sure, > stare at this interracial gay couple. > > When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a > teacher. > With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like > rain, he > asks > me a very important question. > > “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” > > Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of > creeping > towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it > were a > chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive > sighted > person > away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's > never > seen > adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and > he's > certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a > screen > reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a > deep > breath, > I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge > smile on > my > face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many > others, > instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may > not be > in > > my > world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. > > Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about > speech > synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence > is > uttered > without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted > people > and > their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like > sharp > bullets > that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people > who ask > us > how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become > a common > one > in the blindness community. > > “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” > > When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the > sighted point > of > view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness > ways or > technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows > everything, > especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t > know better. > Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. > > Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, > unlocking the > right > doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled > community who > tend > to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to > people with > HIV > and aids as well. > > I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS > gets > offended > when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they > exchange > saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, > hurt. > Upon > further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know > what HIV > did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. > > A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. > Even > today, > the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and > acceptance, > even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV > community. In > today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good > friendship > or > relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide > grows because > we > are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one > point. > > When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I > wondered if > it > would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field > reporting. > I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I > going to > be > > a > journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the > answers > with > trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I > would have > let > my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the > answer. > > I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to > find > out > that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know > now how > to > better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an > answer. > I > couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then > how > blissful > would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone > else as > well > > as > me in the future. > > I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an > answer to a > question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness > along > with > their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, > and soon, > acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't > just > satisfy > curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot > of other > positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible > immediately. > Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are > far off, > such > as advocacy born from awareness. > > When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I > don’t want > to > divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a > computer. > If > education breeds positive results then people who live in > different > conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only > way to > end > these “offensive questions.” > > The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted > date lives > in > an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've > never > lived > through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and > with > each > answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. > With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming > together > in > > a > way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long > time. > He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I > could > ever > give. > > If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive > voice > then > > we > can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. > Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as > we can, > if > asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide > enough > to > let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all > know each > other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace > the > best > teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully > educated > world, > one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was > the result > of > answering offensive questions. > > /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and > other > writing > archives */ > > *Click here to view my resume* > > e%2Fkingettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt > > * > > Fdocument%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchg > lY>* > > *Click here to see my writing archive > > Fdocument%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchg > lY>* > > *Click here to view my website/ > / > 2F>* > > */ > /* > > */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * > *Tel: 850 764 2161 * > > Facebook > > 2Frobertkingett > Twitter > > blindwriter > LinkedIn > > Fin%2Fkingettr > YouTube > > user%2Fkingettspeaks > WordPress > > wordpress.com%2F > Blog RSS > > dpress.com%2Ffeed%2F > My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of > Chance > > %2Fshe-kills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-thea > ter-steppenwolf-theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F > My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: > How Long > Will > I Cry? (play) > > rdpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long- > will-i-cry-play%2F > WordPress > > wordpress.com%2F > My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other > news > > wordpress.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other > -news%2F > > Read more > > wordpress.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other > -news%2F>| > My blog > > wordpress.com%2F > Share on Facebook > > Fsharer.php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress. > com%252F2013%252F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-n > ews%252F >  Share on Twitter > > ent%2Ftweet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520 > it%2520%2526%2520other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestam > p%29 > > > Get this email app! > > 2Fapps%2Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail% > 26utm_term%3Dwordpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps > > > Fin%2Fkingettr > Designed with WiseStamp - > > Fr%2Flanding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407 > 891%26promo%3D10%26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%25 > 2Femail-install%253Futm_source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253De > mail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_10>Get > yours > > Fr%2Flanding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407 > 891%26promo%3D10%26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%25 > 2Femail-install%253Futm_source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253De > mail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_10 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley > %40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed May 29 02:19:02 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 20:19:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Desiree, I too am sickened by your description of what happened in your class. Now that I am writing my dissertation on blindness simulations and have direct evidence that they make people think the blind are less capable, I am really frustrated by all the disability simulations happening in classrooms today. There is very little research backing their use as an educational tool, and many disability activists have argued against their use. Simulations like the earplugs and blindfolds are generally designed to make people appreciate the dependency and loss imposed by the condition. What people don't realize is that the general public already overestimates how bad it would be to be blind or deaf. So a simulation only exaggerates the misconceptions that already exist in society, without addressing the real overlooked issues, like prejudice and discrimination. Arielle On 5/28/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > When I was still in public school, I believe it was in eighth grade, > my English teacher wanted us all to come in as disabled students for a > day. Most kids either shoved earplugs in their ears to simulate > deafness, or had to write on paper all day to simulate muteness. It > was sickening, and I usually am not bothered by things like that. It > was just such a crude representation that it made it completely > unrealistic. When I asked if I could come in as myself, I was told, > very sternly, that that would be unacceptable. So I just shoved > earplugs in my ears like everyone else. Then, when we had to write a > paper about our experiences, I told that teacher how I really felt, > and failed the project. > > On 5/28/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> LOL! >> We did something similar in my class on the Family. >> They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle of >> cola, >> and get it to me. >> It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old fashioned >> bottle opener! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak >> [kwakmiso at aol.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha >> I recommend a novel entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available >> on Bookshare. >> Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an >> interesting read for us blind people. >> In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. >> I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up >> activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did an >> activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the assigned >> small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. >> Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the >> activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted >> and blind-folded. >> The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall make >> sure the blind-folded gets fed. >> Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to be >> a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an >> educational activity. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: melissa Green >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> If I ruled the world. >> All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. >> The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing >> things >> that they do to us to them. >> *dreamful sigh*. >> >> Sincerely, >> Melissa and Pj >> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson >> facebook Melissa R Green >> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >> skype: lissa5674 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National >> Association of >> Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> >> Misty, >> What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, >> was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you >> were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? >> If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the >> manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask >> questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds >> like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, >> and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter >> on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I >> do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen >> to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For >> example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a >> restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had >> been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid >> the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on >> the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, >> but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get >> back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to >> be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and >> say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there >> barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had >> been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had >> just answered my original question the first time and then I could >> have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. >> I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of >> all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm >> doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I >> sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I >> will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they >> would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? >> As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted >> people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has >> been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, >> adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these >> doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order >> to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, >> or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of >> these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn >> the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people >> looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one >> of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people >> how well they thought they could perform various activities if they >> became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely >> incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been >> blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. >> The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people >> were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind >> people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted >> people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction >> to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. >> I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to >> them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can >> learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't >> special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills >> because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other >> choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical >> for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do >> take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary >> cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So >> to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things >> done. That's it. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>> Arielle, >>> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I >>> usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just >> doing >>> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if >> there >>> is >>> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell >> them >>> that >>> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted >> people >>> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on >> their >>> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing >> everything >>> for >>> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life >> that >>> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other >> daily >>> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and >> independent >>> to >>> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >>> everyone >>> to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more >> freedom >>> and >>> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >>> understand >>> somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >>> Misty >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >>> list" >>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> >>>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out >> of >>>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >>>> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >>>> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >>>> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >>>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >>>> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >>>> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >>>> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I >> also >>>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >>>> at times. >>>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am >> always >>>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or >> brave >>>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >>>> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >>>> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people >> being >>>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >>>> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >>>> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, >> if >>>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. >> LOL >>>>> Just >>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written >> post. I'm >>>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The >> weird >>>>> writer >>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>>> >>>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite >> each >>>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >> right, a >>>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball >> game >>>>> she >>>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>>>> making >>>>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, >> and >>>>> my >>>>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of >> smell as >>>>> I >>>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>>>> laughter >>>>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, >> I'm >>>>> sure, >>>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>>> >>>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >> teacher. >>>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, >> he >>>>> asks >>>>> me a very important question. >>>>> >>>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>>> >>>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >> creeping >>>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were >> a >>>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >> sighted >>>>> person >>>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's >> never >>>>> seen >>>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>>>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a >> screen >>>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>>>> breath, >>>>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge >> smile on >>>>> my >>>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many >> others, >>>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not >> be >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> my >>>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>>> >>>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>>>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>>>> uttered >>>>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted >> people >>>>> and >>>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>>> bullets >>>>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who >> ask >>>>> us >>>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a >> common >>>>> one >>>>> in the blindness community. >>>>> >>>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>>> >>>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >> point >>>>> of >>>>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>>>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows >> everything, >>>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know >> better. >>>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>>> >>>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking >> the >>>>> right >>>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community >> who >>>>> tend >>>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people >> with >>>>> HIV >>>>> and aids as well. >>>>> >>>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>>> offended >>>>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they >> exchange >>>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, >> hurt. >>>>> Upon >>>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know >> what HIV >>>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>>> >>>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. >> Even >>>>> today, >>>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>>> acceptance, >>>>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV >> community. In >>>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good >> friendship >>>>> or >>>>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows >> because >>>>> we >>>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one >> point. >>>>> >>>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered >> if >>>>> it >>>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going >> to >>>>> be >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the >> answers >>>>> with >>>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would >> have >>>>> let >>>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the >> answer. >>>>> >>>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to >> find >>>>> out >>>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now >> how >>>>> to >>>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >> answer. >>>>> I >>>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>>>> blissful >>>>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else >> as >>>>> well >>>>> >>>>> as >>>>> me in the future. >>>>> >>>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer >> to a >>>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness >> along >>>>> with >>>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >> soon, >>>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>>>> satisfy >>>>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of >> other >>>>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>>>> immediately. >>>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far >> off, >>>>> such >>>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>>> >>>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >> want >>>>> to >>>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >> computer. >>>>> If >>>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>>>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way >> to >>>>> end >>>>> these “offensive questions.” >>>>> >>>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >> lives >>>>> in >>>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>>>> lived >>>>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and >> with >>>>> each >>>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming >> together >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I >> could >>>>> ever >>>>> give. >>>>> >>>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive >> voice >>>>> then >>>>> >>>>> we >>>>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >> can, >>>>> if >>>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide >> enough >>>>> to >>>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know >> each >>>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace >> the >>>>> best >>>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>>>> world, >>>>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the >> result >>>>> of >>>>> answering offensive questions. >>>>> >>>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>>>> writing >>>>> archives */ >>>>> >>>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>>> >> > ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> >> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>> >>>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>>> >> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>> >>>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>>> / >> * >>>>> >>>>> */ >>>>> /* >>>>> >>>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>>> >>>>> Facebook >>>>> >> > kingett> >>>>> Twitter >>>>> >> > ter> >>>>> LinkedIn >>>>> >> > ngettr> >>>>> YouTube >>>>> >> > ingettspeaks> >>>>> WordPress >>>>> >> > s.com%2F> >>>>> Blog RSS >>>>> >> > om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>>>> >> > ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- >> theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >> Long >>>>> Will >>>>> I Cry? (play) >>>>> >> > com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% >> 2F> >>>>> WordPress >>>>> >> > s.com%2F> >>>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>>> >> > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>>> >>>>> Read more >>>>> >> > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| >>>>> My blog >>>>> >> > s.com%2F> >>>>> Share on Facebook >>>>> >> > php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 >> F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> >>>>> Share on Twitter >>>>> >> > eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 >> 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Get this email app! >>>>> >> > Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor >> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>>> >>>>> >> > ngettr> >>>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>>> >> > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >> 10>Get >>>>> yours >>>>> >> > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >> 10> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Tue May 28 02:28:02 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 22:28:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <9FF3F37F544F4BF7904D6BBC1A0EA77A@HP30910210001> References: <9FF3F37F544F4BF7904D6BBC1A0EA77A@HP30910210001> Message-ID: <002a01ce5b4a$faf4d560$f0de8020$@gmail.com> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing when someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I think they are amazing. While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is something that everyone in their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing for a blind man." At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of them I don't. After a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where it goes, and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. Other times I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. It is good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a human level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely nothing. Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa Green Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would want to parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe the school. After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like everyone else. I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into the music room and sit in my chair. I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. No relying on others. It took me a while to get out of that thought process. When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. . I could go on and on about my childhood too. But I won't. I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made over me because of my blindness. When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as well as put a cap and gown on her. I said absolutely not! I would include her in my own way. That is what I did. I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. It was my choice and noone else's. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Hi all, I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells me I am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, even though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being told that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I don't think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my educational achievements and compared with many others my life has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel they are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about me, my upbringing or anything I've done. I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. just exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an inspiration is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled with a lot of internal and external demands. When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. When I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not to the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in our local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me to write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I eventually realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, but not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or poetry at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing was because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing before I eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me out to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to resent all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. But I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one hand, I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held to an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about my ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the crowd of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just boys) instead. Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" failed my algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were some problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like answering on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, I bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my algebra teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class at the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with my performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, I wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I could to succeed in school. OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as damaging as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and we have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted folks with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and weaknesses. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Tue May 28 02:32:50 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 22:32:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002c01ce5b4b$a6b074e0$f4115ea0$@gmail.com> The simulation is bad because you are taking people who don't have any alternative skills and placing in a situation where that is their only hope of completing a task. It's a game to them; then they go back to their lives. There is a good education component if it is used in the right context. I would like to see more people immersed for a week or more for them to really get an appreciating of it. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:19 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Desiree, I too am sickened by your description of what happened in your class. Now that I am writing my dissertation on blindness simulations and have direct evidence that they make people think the blind are less capable, I am really frustrated by all the disability simulations happening in classrooms today. There is very little research backing their use as an educational tool, and many disability activists have argued against their use. Simulations like the earplugs and blindfolds are generally designed to make people appreciate the dependency and loss imposed by the condition. What people don't realize is that the general public already overestimates how bad it would be to be blind or deaf. So a simulation only exaggerates the misconceptions that already exist in society, without addressing the real overlooked issues, like prejudice and discrimination. Arielle On 5/28/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > When I was still in public school, I believe it was in eighth grade, > my English teacher wanted us all to come in as disabled students for a > day. Most kids either shoved earplugs in their ears to simulate > deafness, or had to write on paper all day to simulate muteness. It > was sickening, and I usually am not bothered by things like that. It > was just such a crude representation that it made it completely > unrealistic. When I asked if I could come in as myself, I was told, > very sternly, that that would be unacceptable. So I just shoved > earplugs in my ears like everyone else. Then, when we had to write a > paper about our experiences, I told that teacher how I really felt, > and failed the project. > > On 5/28/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> LOL! >> We did something similar in my class on the Family. >> They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle >> of cola, and get it to me. >> It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old >> fashioned bottle opener! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak >> [kwakmiso at aol.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha I recommend a novel >> entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available on Bookshare. >> Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an >> interesting read for us blind people. >> In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. >> I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up >> activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did an >> activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the assigned >> small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. >> Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the >> activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted >> and blind-folded. >> The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall make >> sure the blind-folded gets fed. >> Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to >> be a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an >> educational activity. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: melissa Green >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> If I ruled the world. >> All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. >> The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing >> things that they do to us to them. >> *dreamful sigh*. >> >> Sincerely, >> Melissa and Pj >> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >> skype: lissa5674 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> >> Misty, >> What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, >> was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you >> were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? >> If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the >> manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask >> questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it >> sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be >> treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I >> encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. >> Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they >> don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I >> want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a >> parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I >> remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in >> the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and >> offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the >> sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he >> kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going >> on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking >> lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please >> answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the >> sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. It >> would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just answered my >> original question the first time and then I could have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. >> I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating >> of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me >> I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I >> sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I >> will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if >> they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? >> As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted >> people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has >> been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and >> would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of >> these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt >> in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into >> depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, >> but most of these people would be resilient enough (and practical >> enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, >> sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would >> happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually >> asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform various >> activities if they became blind, and most said they thought they >> would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who >> had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. >> The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind >> people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual >> blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that >> sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that >> prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. >> I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to >> them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can >> learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't >> special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills >> because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other >> choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical >> for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do >> take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary >> cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So >> to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things >> done. That's it. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>> Arielle, >>> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. >>> I usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is >>> just >> doing >>> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if >> there >>> is >>> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell >> them >>> that >>> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted >> people >>> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on >> their >>> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing >> everything >>> for >>> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life >> that >>> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other >> daily >>> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and >> independent >>> to >>> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >>> everyone to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot >>> more >> freedom >>> and >>> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >>> understand somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >>> Misty >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >>> list" >>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> >>>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out >> of >>>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about >>>> how we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second >>>> date, or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is >>>> asked out of curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >>>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt >>>> and at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >>>> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >>>> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I >> also >>>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others >>>> have at times. >>>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am >> always >>>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or >> brave >>>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say >>>> "thank you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel >>>> like by thanking them I am validating what they think about blind >>>> people >> being >>>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >>>> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times >>>> I will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I >>>> use, >> if >>>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. >> LOL >>>>> Just >>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written >> post. I'm >>>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The >> weird >>>>> writer >>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>>> >>>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite >> each >>>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >> right, a >>>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball >> game >>>>> she >>>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass >>>>> us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen >>>>> behind me, >> and >>>>> my >>>>> date's cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of >> smell as >>>>> I >>>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We're chatting jovially, >>>>> our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making >>>>> people stop, and, >> I'm >>>>> sure, >>>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>>> >>>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >> teacher. >>>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, >> he >>>>> asks >>>>> me a very important question. >>>>> >>>>> "If you're blind, how can you be a journalist?" >>>>> >>>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >> creeping >>>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>>>> were >> a >>>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >> sighted >>>>> person >>>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's >> never >>>>> seen >>>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and >>>>> he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer >>>>> with a >> screen >>>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a >>>>> deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all >>>>> with a huge >> smile on >>>>> my >>>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many >> others, >>>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may >>>>> not >> be >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> my >>>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>>> >>>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>>>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>>>> uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about >>>>> sighted >> people >>>>> and >>>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>>> bullets that are not meant for me. They're angry at the sighted >>>>> people who >> ask >>>>> us >>>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a >> common >>>>> one >>>>> in the blindness community. >>>>> >>>>> "They should know better. Why are they so stupid?" >>>>> >>>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >> point >>>>> of >>>>> view. The truth is, they won't be an expert about blindness ways >>>>> or technology. They shouldn't know better because no one knows >> everything, >>>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn't know >> better. >>>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>>> >>>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking >> the >>>>> right >>>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>>>> community >> who >>>>> tend >>>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people >> with >>>>> HIV >>>>> and aids as well. >>>>> >>>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if >>>>> they >> exchange >>>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, >> hurt. >>>>> Upon >>>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know >> what HIV >>>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>>> >>>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. >> Even >>>>> today, >>>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and >>>>> HIV >> community. In >>>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good >> friendship >>>>> or >>>>> relationship because of "offensive questions." That divide grows >> because >>>>> we >>>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one >> point. >>>>> >>>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I >>>>> wondered >> if >>>>> it >>>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. "How am I >>>>> going >> to >>>>> be >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> journalist?" with patience, and persistence, I figured out the >> answers >>>>> with >>>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would >> have >>>>> let >>>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the >> answer. >>>>> >>>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to >> find >>>>> out >>>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now >> how >>>>> to >>>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >> answer. >>>>> I >>>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>>>> blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >>>>> someone else >> as >>>>> well >>>>> >>>>> as >>>>> me in the future. >>>>> >>>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer >> to a >>>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness >> along >>>>> with >>>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >> soon, >>>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>>>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There >>>>> are a lot of >> other >>>>> positive things behind that door even if they're not visible >>>>> immediately. >>>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far >> off, >>>>> such >>>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>>> >>>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I >>>>> don't >> want >>>>> to >>>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >> computer. >>>>> If >>>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in >>>>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's >>>>> the only way >> to >>>>> end >>>>> these "offensive questions." >>>>> >>>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >> lives >>>>> in >>>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>>>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask >>>>> questions, and >> with >>>>> each >>>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We're together. >>>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we're coming >> together >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> way that offended people won't be able to do for a very long time. >>>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I >> could >>>>> ever >>>>> give. >>>>> >>>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive >> voice >>>>> then >>>>> >>>>> we >>>>> can't widen the distance because we're offended at questions. >>>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as >>>>> we >> can, >>>>> if >>>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide >> enough >>>>> to >>>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know >> each >>>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace >> the >>>>> best >>>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully >>>>> educated world, one where I'd be happy to say that this positive >>>>> change was the >> result >>>>> of >>>>> answering offensive questions. >>>>> >>>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and >>>>> other writing archives */ >>>>> >>>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>>> >> > king >> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> >> > umen >> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>> >>>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>>> >> > umen >> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>> >>>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>>> / >> * >>>>> >>>>> */ >>>>> /* >>>>> >>>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>>> >>>>> Facebook >>>>> >> > bert >> kingett> >>>>> Twitter >>>>> >> > dwri >> ter> >>>>> LinkedIn >>>>> >> > 2Fki >> ngettr> >>>>> YouTube >>>>> >> > %2Fk >> ingettspeaks> >>>>> WordPress >>>>> >> > pres >> s.com%2F> >>>>> Blog RSS >>>>> >> > ss.c >> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>>> My latest comedy review: 'She Kills Monsters': A Fun Game of >>>>> Chance >>>>> >> > he-k >> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenw >> olf- theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >> Long >>>>> Will >>>>> I Cry? (play) >>>>> >> > com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-p >> lay% >> 2F> >>>>> WordPress >>>>> >> > pres >> s.com%2F> >>>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>>> >> > pres >> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>>> >>>>> Read more >>>>> >> > pres >> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| >>>>> My blog >>>>> >> > pres >> s.com%2F> >>>>> Share on Facebook >>>>> >> > php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013 >> %252 F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> >>>>> Share on Twitter >>>>> >> > 2Ftw >> eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526 >> %252 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Get this email app! >>>>> >> > ps%2 >> Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3 >> Dwor >> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>>> >>>>> >> > 2Fki >> ngettr> >>>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>>> >> > Flan >> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo% >> 3D10 >> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253F >> utm_ >> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpr >> omo_ >> 10>Get >>>>> yours >>>>> >> > Flan >> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo% >> 3D10 >> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253F >> utm_ >> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpr >> omo_ >> 10> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail. >> com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >> .com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40g >> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >> .com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.co >> m >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >> ua.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Tue May 28 02:37:25 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 22:37:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <51a55d4a.2b56ec0a.28e2.ffffe71b@mx.google.com> References: <51a55d4a.2b56ec0a.28e2.ffffe71b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <002d01ce5b4c$4a75a870$df60f950$@gmail.com> Well said about the colors and fashions. I find myself explaining the technology quite readily. I am a little hesitant to explain environment landmarks and certain other things such as keystrokes or specific techniques. I've had people move my chair, or turn something around because they though it was funny. Recently I had someone offer me a = shot and tell it was a gglass of wine. He didn't fool me, but I was a little annoyed with that. =20 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie = Trist Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Melissa, while I had to laugh at your funny email, I disagree with you. = If we want sighties to stop patronizing us, we have to be polite and respectful to them. If we don't educate them and instead be rude to them and patronize them, no progress will be made. I know it's hard. I know = it's not been easy to be respectful and patient. Sometimes, when I'm reading = or writing and someone asks me ten billion questions about my braillenote = like it's some kind of machine from outer space, I just wanna say, "I'm busy here. Leave me alone." But because I want them to know that I can do anything they can do and to prove that my blindness doesn't make me an antisocial psychopath, I stop and briefly explain my braillenote to = them. The same goes for my iPhone with voiceover or anything else I use or do. Patience can get us places. After all, a lot of times sighties have to explain things to us (or at least to me) about things like colors and fashion. All I'm saying is, treat others how you wanna be treated. ----- Original Message ----- From: "melissa Green" ; "National = Association of Blind Students mailing list" wrote: Arielle, I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring"=20 also. I usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is=20 just doing what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it=20 if there is time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just=20 tell them that I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of=20 sighted people tell me that they could never travel independently or do=20 anything on their own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing=20 everything for them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in=20 life that need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many=20 other daily things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and=20 independent to do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying=20 on everyone to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more=20 freedom and flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they=20 can understand somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" ; "National Association of Blind=20 Students mailing list" wrote: Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender.=20 LOL Just to chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written=20 post. I'm sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The=20 weird writer Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit=20 opposite each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate=20 right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball=20 game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women=20 pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind=20 me, and my date?=99s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of=20 smell as I gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We?=99re chatting=20 jovially, our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop,=20 and, I'm sure, stare at this interracial gay couple. When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a=20 teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like=20 rain, he asks me a very important question. ?=9CIf you?=99re blind, how can you be a journalist??? Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of=20 creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it=20 were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive=20 sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's=20 never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and=20 he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a=20 screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a=20 deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge=20 smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many=20 others, instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may=20 not be in my world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about=20 speech synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence=20 is uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted=20 people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like=20 sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They?=99re angry at the sighted people=20 who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become=20 a common one in the blindness community. ?=9CThey should know better. Why are they so stupid??? When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the=20 sighted point of view. The truth is, they won?=99t be an expert about blindness=20 ways or technology. They shouldn?=99t know better because no one knows=20 everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn?=99t=20 know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself,=20 unlocking the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled=20 community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to=20 people with HIV and aids as well. I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS=20 gets offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they=20 exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off,=20 hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know=20 what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider.=20 Even today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV=20 community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good=20 friendship or relationship because of ?=9Coffensive questions.??That divide=20 grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one=20 point. When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I=20 wondered if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field=20 reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. ?=9CHow am I=20 going to be a journalist???with patience, and persistence, I figured out the=20 answers with trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I=20 would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the=20 answer. I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to=20 find out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know=20 now how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an=20 answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then=20 how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone=20 else as well as me in the future. I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an=20 answer to a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness=20 along with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding,=20 and soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't=20 just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot=20 of other positive things behind that door even if they?=99re not visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are=20 far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I=20 don?=99t want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a=20 computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in=20 different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only=20 way to end these ?=9Coffensive questions.?? The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted=20 date lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've=20 never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and=20 with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We?=99re together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we?=99re coming=20 together in a way that offended people won?=99t be able to do for a very long=20 time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I=20 could ever give. If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive=20 voice then we can't widen the distance because we?=99re offended at questions. Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as=20 we can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide=20 enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all=20 know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace=20 the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully=20 educated world, one where I?=99d be happy to say that this positive change was=20 the result of answering offensive questions. /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and=20 other writing archives */ *Click here to view my resume* =20 * *Click here to see my writing archive =20 * *Click here to view my website/ /=20 * */ /* */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * *Tel: 850 764 2161 * Facebook =20 | My blog =20 Get yours =20 References: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> <002c01ce5b4b$a6b074e0$f4115ea0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: But in what context could that be successful? There would have to be something in it for the students. It makes sense how sighted O&m instructors would be put under blindfold for part of their training, for example. but to put a bunch of high school kids through that, who are already rebelling at the slightest sign that something isn't going their way? No, that's not happening. I'm not criticizing you, just putting a bit of realism into what you've said. On 5/27/13, justin wrote: > The simulation is bad because you are taking people who don't have any > alternative skills and placing in a situation where that is their only hope > of completing a task. It's a game to them; then they go back to their > lives. There is a good education component if it is used in the right > context. I would like to see more people immersed for a week or more for > them to really get an appreciating of it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > Desiree, I too am sickened by your description of what happened in your > class. Now that I am writing my dissertation on blindness simulations and > have direct evidence that they make people think the blind are less > capable, > I am really frustrated by all the disability simulations happening in > classrooms today. There is very little research backing their use as an > educational tool, and many disability activists have argued against their > use. Simulations like the earplugs and blindfolds are generally designed to > make people appreciate the dependency and loss imposed by the condition. > What people don't realize is that the general public already overestimates > how bad it would be to be blind or deaf. So a simulation only exaggerates > the misconceptions that already exist in society, without addressing the > real overlooked issues, like prejudice and discrimination. > > Arielle > > On 5/28/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> When I was still in public school, I believe it was in eighth grade, >> my English teacher wanted us all to come in as disabled students for a >> day. Most kids either shoved earplugs in their ears to simulate >> deafness, or had to write on paper all day to simulate muteness. It >> was sickening, and I usually am not bothered by things like that. It >> was just such a crude representation that it made it completely >> unrealistic. When I asked if I could come in as myself, I was told, >> very sternly, that that would be unacceptable. So I just shoved >> earplugs in my ears like everyone else. Then, when we had to write a >> paper about our experiences, I told that teacher how I really felt, >> and failed the project. >> >> On 5/28/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> LOL! >>> We did something similar in my class on the Family. >>> They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle >>> of cola, and get it to me. >>> It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old >>> fashioned bottle opener! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak >>> [kwakmiso at aol.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha I recommend a novel >>> entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available on Bookshare. >>> Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an >>> interesting read for us blind people. >>> In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. >>> I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up >>> activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did an >>> activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the assigned >>> small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. >>> Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the >>> activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted >>> and blind-folded. >>> The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall make >>> sure the blind-folded gets fed. >>> Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to >>> be a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an >>> educational activity. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: melissa Green >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> If I ruled the world. >>> All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. >>> The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing >>> things that they do to us to them. >>> *dreamful sigh*. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Melissa and Pj >>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>> skype: lissa5674 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National >>> Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> >>> Misty, >>> What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, >>> was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you >>> were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? >>> If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the >>> manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask >>> questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it >>> sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be >>> treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I >>> encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. >>> Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they >>> don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I >>> want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a >>> parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I >>> remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in >>> the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and >>> offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the >>> sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he >>> kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going >>> on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking >>> lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please >>> answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the >>> sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. It >>> would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just answered my >>> original question the first time and then I could have moved to the > sidewalk without assistance. >>> I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating >>> of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me >>> I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I >>> sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I >>> will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if >>> they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? >>> As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted >>> people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has >>> been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and >>> would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of >>> these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt >>> in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into >>> depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, >>> but most of these people would be resilient enough (and practical >>> enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, >>> sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would >>> happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually >>> asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform various >>> activities if they became blind, and most said they thought they >>> would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who >>> had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without > any training. >>> The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind >>> people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual >>> blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that >>> sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that >>> prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing > blind. >>> I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to >>> them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can >>> learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't >>> special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills >>> because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other >>> choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical >>> for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do >>> take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary >>> cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So >>> to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things >>> done. That's it. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>>> Arielle, >>>> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. >>>> I usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is >>>> just >>> doing >>>> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if >>> there >>>> is >>>> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell >>> them >>>> that >>>> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted >>> people >>>> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on >>> their >>>> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing >>> everything >>>> for >>>> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life >>> that >>>> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other >>> daily >>>> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and >>> independent >>>> to >>>> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >>>> everyone to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot >>>> more >>> freedom >>>> and >>>> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >>>> understand somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >>>> Misty >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>>> list" >>>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> >>>>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out >>> of >>>>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>>>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about >>>>> how we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second >>>>> date, or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is >>>>> asked out of curiosity or if the questioner has already made up >>>>> his/her > mind. >>>>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt >>>>> and at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >>>>> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >>>>> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I >>> also >>>>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>>>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>>>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>>>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others >>>>> have at times. >>>>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am >>> always >>>>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>>>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>>>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>>>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or >>> brave >>>>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say >>>>> "thank you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel >>>>> like by thanking them I am validating what they think about blind >>>>> people >>> being >>>>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >>>>> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times >>>>> I will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I >>>>> use, >>> if >>>>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. >>> LOL >>>>>> Just >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written >>> post. I'm >>>>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The >>> weird >>>>>> writer >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>>>> >>>>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite >>> each >>>>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>> right, a >>>>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball >>> game >>>>>> she >>>>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass >>>>>> us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen >>>>>> behind me, >>> and >>>>>> my >>>>>> date's cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of >>> smell as >>>>>> I >>>>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We're chatting jovially, >>>>>> our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making >>>>>> people stop, and, >>> I'm >>>>>> sure, >>>>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>>>> >>>>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>> teacher. >>>>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, >>> he >>>>>> asks >>>>>> me a very important question. >>>>>> >>>>>> "If you're blind, how can you be a journalist?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>> creeping >>>>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>>>>> were >>> a >>>>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>> sighted >>>>>> person >>>>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's >>> never >>>>>> seen >>>>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and >>>>>> he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer >>>>>> with a >>> screen >>>>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a >>>>>> deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all >>>>>> with a huge >>> smile on >>>>>> my >>>>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many >>> others, >>>>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may >>>>>> not >>> be >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> my >>>>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>>>> >>>>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>>>>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>>>>> uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about >>>>>> sighted >>> people >>>>>> and >>>>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>>>> bullets that are not meant for me. They're angry at the sighted >>>>>> people who >>> ask >>>>>> us >>>>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a >>> common >>>>>> one >>>>>> in the blindness community. >>>>>> >>>>>> "They should know better. Why are they so stupid?" >>>>>> >>>>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >>> point >>>>>> of >>>>>> view. The truth is, they won't be an expert about blindness ways >>>>>> or technology. They shouldn't know better because no one knows >>> everything, >>>>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn't know >>> better. >>>>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>>>> >>>>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking >>> the >>>>>> right >>>>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>>>>> community >>> who >>>>>> tend >>>>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people >>> with >>>>>> HIV >>>>>> and aids as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>>>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if >>>>>> they >>> exchange >>>>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, >>> hurt. >>>>>> Upon >>>>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know >>> what HIV >>>>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>>>> >>>>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. >>> Even >>>>>> today, >>>>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>>>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and >>>>>> HIV >>> community. In >>>>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good >>> friendship >>>>>> or >>>>>> relationship because of "offensive questions." That divide grows >>> because >>>>>> we >>>>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one >>> point. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I >>>>>> wondered >>> if >>>>>> it >>>>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. "How am I >>>>>> going >>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> journalist?" with patience, and persistence, I figured out the >>> answers >>>>>> with >>>>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would >>> have >>>>>> let >>>>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the >>> answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to >>> find >>>>>> out >>>>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now >>> how >>>>>> to >>>>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >>> answer. >>>>>> I >>>>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>>>>> blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >>>>>> someone else >>> as >>>>>> well >>>>>> >>>>>> as >>>>>> me in the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer >>> to a >>>>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness >>> along >>>>>> with >>>>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >>> soon, >>>>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>>>>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There >>>>>> are a lot of >>> other >>>>>> positive things behind that door even if they're not visible >>>>>> immediately. >>>>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far >>> off, >>>>>> such >>>>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I >>>>>> don't >>> want >>>>>> to >>>>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>> computer. >>>>>> If >>>>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in >>>>>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's >>>>>> the only way >>> to >>>>>> end >>>>>> these "offensive questions." >>>>>> >>>>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >>> lives >>>>>> in >>>>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>>>>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask >>>>>> questions, and >>> with >>>>>> each >>>>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We're together. >>>>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we're coming >>> together >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> way that offended people won't be able to do for a very long time. >>>>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I >>> could >>>>>> ever >>>>>> give. >>>>>> >>>>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive >>> voice >>>>>> then >>>>>> >>>>>> we >>>>>> can't widen the distance because we're offended at questions. >>>>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as >>>>>> we >>> can, >>>>>> if >>>>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide >>> enough >>>>>> to >>>>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know >>> each >>>>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace >>> the >>>>>> best >>>>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully >>>>>> educated world, one where I'd be happy to say that this positive >>>>>> change was the >>> result >>>>>> of >>>>>> answering offensive questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and >>>>>> other writing archives */ >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>>>> >>> >> king >>> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>>>> >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>> >> umen >>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>>>> >>> >> umen >>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>>>> / >>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> */ >>>>>> /* >>>>>> >>>>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>>>> >>>>>> Facebook >>>>>> >>> >> bert >>> kingett> >>>>>> Twitter >>>>>> >>> >> dwri >>> ter> >>>>>> LinkedIn >>>>>> >>> >> 2Fki >>> ngettr> >>>>>> YouTube >>>>>> >>> >> %2Fk >>> ingettspeaks> >>>>>> WordPress >>>>>> >>> >> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> Blog RSS >>>>>> >>> >> ss.c >>> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>>>> My latest comedy review: 'She Kills Monsters': A Fun Game of >>>>>> Chance >>>>>> >>> >> he-k >>> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenw >>> olf- theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >>> Long >>>>>> Will >>>>>> I Cry? (play) >>>>>> >>> >> com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-p >>> lay% >>> 2F> >>>>>> WordPress >>>>>> >>> >> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>>>> >>> >> pres >>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>>>> >>>>>> Read more >>>>>> >>> >> pres >>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| >>>>>> My blog >>>>>> >>> >> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> Share on Facebook >>>>>> >>> >> php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013 >>> %252 F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> >>>>>> Share on Twitter >>>>>> >>> >> 2Ftw >>> eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526 >>> %252 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Get this email app! >>>>>> >>> >> ps%2 >>> Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3 >>> Dwor >>> 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail. >>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>> .com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40g >>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>> .com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.co >>> m >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>> ua.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Tue May 28 02:38:46 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 22:38:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> <002c01ce5b4b$a6b074e0$f4115ea0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001ce5b4c$7b023f30$7106bd90$@gmail.com> The high school thing was not well though out. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions But in what context could that be successful? There would have to be something in it for the students. It makes sense how sighted O&m instructors would be put under blindfold for part of their training, for example. but to put a bunch of high school kids through that, who are already rebelling at the slightest sign that something isn't going their way? No, that's not happening. I'm not criticizing you, just putting a bit of realism into what you've said. On 5/27/13, justin wrote: > The simulation is bad because you are taking people who don't have any > alternative skills and placing in a situation where that is their only > hope of completing a task. It's a game to them; then they go back to > their lives. There is a good education component if it is used in the > right context. I would like to see more people immersed for a week or > more for them to really get an appreciating of it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > Desiree, I too am sickened by your description of what happened in > your class. Now that I am writing my dissertation on blindness > simulations and have direct evidence that they make people think the > blind are less capable, I am really frustrated by all the disability > simulations happening in classrooms today. There is very little > research backing their use as an educational tool, and many disability > activists have argued against their use. Simulations like the earplugs > and blindfolds are generally designed to make people appreciate the > dependency and loss imposed by the condition. > What people don't realize is that the general public already > overestimates how bad it would be to be blind or deaf. So a simulation > only exaggerates the misconceptions that already exist in society, > without addressing the real overlooked issues, like prejudice and discrimination. > > Arielle > > On 5/28/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> When I was still in public school, I believe it was in eighth grade, >> my English teacher wanted us all to come in as disabled students for >> a day. Most kids either shoved earplugs in their ears to simulate >> deafness, or had to write on paper all day to simulate muteness. It >> was sickening, and I usually am not bothered by things like that. It >> was just such a crude representation that it made it completely >> unrealistic. When I asked if I could come in as myself, I was told, >> very sternly, that that would be unacceptable. So I just shoved >> earplugs in my ears like everyone else. Then, when we had to write a >> paper about our experiences, I told that teacher how I really felt, >> and failed the project. >> >> On 5/28/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> LOL! >>> We did something similar in my class on the Family. >>> They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle >>> of cola, and get it to me. >>> It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old >>> fashioned bottle opener! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak >>> [kwakmiso at aol.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha I recommend a novel >>> entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available on Bookshare. >>> Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an >>> interesting read for us blind people. >>> In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. >>> I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up >>> activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did >>> an activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the >>> assigned small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. >>> Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the >>> activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted >>> and blind-folded. >>> The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall >>> make sure the blind-folded gets fed. >>> Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to >>> be a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an >>> educational activity. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: melissa Green >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> If I ruled the world. >>> All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. >>> The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing >>> things that they do to us to them. >>> *dreamful sigh*. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Melissa and Pj >>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>> skype: lissa5674 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National >>> Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> >>> Misty, >>> What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may >>> ask, was this offending person an employee at an establishment where >>> you were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? >>> If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the >>> manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask >>> questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it >>> sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be >>> treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I >>> encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. >>> Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they >>> don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I >>> want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a >>> parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I >>> remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in >>> the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and >>> offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the >>> sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he >>> kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going >>> on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking >>> lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please >>> answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the >>> sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. >>> It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just >>> answered my original question the first time and then I could have >>> moved to the > sidewalk without assistance. >>> I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating >>> of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me >>> I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. >>> I sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them >>> that I will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask >>> them if they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? >>> As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted >>> people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It >>> has been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and >>> would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of >>> these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt >>> in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into >>> depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with >>> everything, but most of these people would be resilient enough (and >>> practical >>> enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, >>> sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would >>> happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually >>> asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform >>> various activities if they became blind, and most said they thought >>> they would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those >>> who had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane >>> without > any training. >>> The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind >>> people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual >>> blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that >>> sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that >>> prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same >>> thing > blind. >>> I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to >>> them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone >>> can learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't >>> special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills >>> because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other >>> choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical >>> for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do >>> take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary >>> cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So >>> to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things >>> done. That's it. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>>> Arielle, >>>> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. >>>> I usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is >>>> just >>> doing >>>> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if >>> there >>>> is >>>> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell >>> them >>>> that >>>> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted >>> people >>>> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything >>>> on >>> their >>>> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing >>> everything >>>> for >>>> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in >>>> life >>> that >>>> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other >>> daily >>>> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and >>> independent >>>> to >>>> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >>>> everyone to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot >>>> more >>> freedom >>>> and >>>> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >>>> understand somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >>>> Misty >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>>> list" >>>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> >>>>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions >>>>> out >>> of >>>>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>>>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about >>>>> how we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second >>>>> date, or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is >>>>> asked out of curiosity or if the questioner has already made up >>>>> his/her > mind. >>>>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt >>>>> and at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't >>>>> want well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their >>>>> questions inside and never learn what they want to learn about >>>>> blindness. I >>> also >>>>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>>>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>>>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>>>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others >>>>> have at times. >>>>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am >>> always >>>>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>>>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>>>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>>>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or >>> brave >>>>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say >>>>> "thank you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I >>>>> feel like by thanking them I am validating what they think about >>>>> blind people >>> being >>>>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself >>>>> just ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other >>>>> times I will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques >>>>> that I use, >>> if >>>>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. >>> LOL >>>>>> Just >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written >>> post. I'm >>>>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The >>> weird >>>>>> writer >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>>>> >>>>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit >>>>>> opposite >>> each >>>>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>> right, a >>>>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball >>> game >>>>>> she >>>>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass >>>>>> us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the >>>>>> kitchen behind me, >>> and >>>>>> my >>>>>> date's cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of >>> smell as >>>>>> I >>>>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We're chatting jovially, >>>>>> our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making >>>>>> people stop, and, >>> I'm >>>>>> sure, >>>>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>>>> >>>>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>> teacher. >>>>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >>>>>> rain, >>> he >>>>>> asks >>>>>> me a very important question. >>>>>> >>>>>> "If you're blind, how can you be a journalist?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>> creeping >>>>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>>>>> were >>> a >>>>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>> sighted >>>>>> person >>>>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's >>> never >>>>>> seen >>>>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and >>>>>> he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer >>>>>> with a >>> screen >>>>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a >>>>>> deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all >>>>>> with a huge >>> smile on >>>>>> my >>>>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many >>> others, >>>>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may >>>>>> not >>> be >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> my >>>>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>>>> >>>>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about >>>>>> speech synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a >>>>>> sentence is uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to >>>>>> talking about sighted >>> people >>>>>> and >>>>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>>>> bullets that are not meant for me. They're angry at the sighted >>>>>> people who >>> ask >>>>>> us >>>>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a >>> common >>>>>> one >>>>>> in the blindness community. >>>>>> >>>>>> "They should know better. Why are they so stupid?" >>>>>> >>>>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >>> point >>>>>> of >>>>>> view. The truth is, they won't be an expert about blindness ways >>>>>> or technology. They shouldn't know better because no one knows >>> everything, >>>>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn't know >>> better. >>>>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>>>> >>>>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, >>>>>> unlocking >>> the >>>>>> right >>>>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>>>>> community >>> who >>>>>> tend >>>>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to >>>>>> people >>> with >>>>>> HIV >>>>>> and aids as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>>>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if >>>>>> they >>> exchange >>>>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, >>> hurt. >>>>>> Upon >>>>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know >>> what HIV >>>>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>>>> >>>>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. >>> Even >>>>>> today, >>>>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>>>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and >>>>>> HIV >>> community. In >>>>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good >>> friendship >>>>>> or >>>>>> relationship because of "offensive questions." That divide grows >>> because >>>>>> we >>>>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one >>> point. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I >>>>>> wondered >>> if >>>>>> it >>>>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. "How am I >>>>>> going >>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> journalist?" with patience, and persistence, I figured out the >>> answers >>>>>> with >>>>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I >>>>>> would >>> have >>>>>> let >>>>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the >>> answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to >>> find >>>>>> out >>>>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know >>>>>> now >>> how >>>>>> to >>>>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >>> answer. >>>>>> I >>>>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then >>>>>> how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >>>>>> someone else >>> as >>>>>> well >>>>>> >>>>>> as >>>>>> me in the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an >>>>>> answer >>> to a >>>>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness >>> along >>>>>> with >>>>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >>> soon, >>>>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>>>>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. >>>>>> There are a lot of >>> other >>>>>> positive things behind that door even if they're not visible >>>>>> immediately. >>>>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far >>> off, >>>>>> such >>>>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I >>>>>> don't >>> want >>>>>> to >>>>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>> computer. >>>>>> If >>>>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in >>>>>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's >>>>>> the only way >>> to >>>>>> end >>>>>> these "offensive questions." >>>>>> >>>>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted >>>>>> date >>> lives >>>>>> in >>>>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>>>>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask >>>>>> questions, and >>> with >>>>>> each >>>>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We're together. >>>>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we're coming >>> together >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> way that offended people won't be able to do for a very long time. >>>>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I >>> could >>>>>> ever >>>>>> give. >>>>>> >>>>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive >>> voice >>>>>> then >>>>>> >>>>>> we >>>>>> can't widen the distance because we're offended at questions. >>>>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as >>>>>> we >>> can, >>>>>> if >>>>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide >>> enough >>>>>> to >>>>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all >>>>>> know >>> each >>>>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace >>> the >>>>>> best >>>>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully >>>>>> educated world, one where I'd be happy to say that this positive >>>>>> change was the >>> result >>>>>> of >>>>>> answering offensive questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and >>>>>> other writing archives */ >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>>>> >>> >> F >>> king >>> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>>>> >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>> >> c >>> umen >>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>>>> >>> >> c >>> umen >>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>>>> / >>> >>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> */ >>>>>> /* >>>>>> >>>>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>>>> >>>>>> Facebook >>>>>> >>> >> o >>> bert >>> kingett> >>>>>> Twitter >>>>>> >>> >> n >>> dwri >>> ter> >>>>>> LinkedIn >>>>>> >>> >> % >>> 2Fki >>> ngettr> >>>>>> YouTube >>>>>> >>> >> r >>> %2Fk >>> ingettspeaks> >>>>>> WordPress >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> Blog RSS >>>>>> >>> >> e >>> ss.c >>> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>>>> My latest comedy review: 'She Kills Monsters': A Fun Game of >>>>>> Chance >>>>>> >>> >> s >>> he-k >>> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppen >>> w >>> olf- theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >>> Long >>>>>> Will >>>>>> I Cry? (play) >>>>>> >>> >> com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry- >>> p >>> lay% >>> 2F> >>>>>> WordPress >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>>>> >>>>>> Read more >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| >>>>>> My blog >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> Share on Facebook >>>>>> >>> >> php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F201 >>> 3 >>> %252 F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> >>>>>> Share on Twitter >>>>>> >>> >> % >>> 2Ftw >>> eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%252 >>> 6 >>> %252 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Get this email app! >>>>>> >>> >> p >>> ps%2 >>> Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term% >>> 3 >>> Dwor >>> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> % >>> 2Fki >>> ngettr> >>>>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>>>> >>> >> 2 >>> Flan >>> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo >>> % >>> 3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253 >>> F >>> utm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dp >>> r >>> omo_ >>> 10>Get >>>>>> yours >>>>>> >>> >> 2 >>> Flan >>> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo >>> % >>> 3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253 >>> F >>> utm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dp >>> r >>> omo_ >>> 10> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail. >>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> 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_______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>> c >>> ua.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Tue May 28 02:39:42 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 22:39:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> <002c01ce5b4b$a6b074e0$f4115ea0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000101ce5b4c$9bb9cbd0$d32d6370$@gmail.com> At the university of iowa they have a pretty good immersion program from what I was told. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions But in what context could that be successful? There would have to be something in it for the students. It makes sense how sighted O&m instructors would be put under blindfold for part of their training, for example. but to put a bunch of high school kids through that, who are already rebelling at the slightest sign that something isn't going their way? No, that's not happening. I'm not criticizing you, just putting a bit of realism into what you've said. On 5/27/13, justin wrote: > The simulation is bad because you are taking people who don't have any > alternative skills and placing in a situation where that is their only > hope of completing a task. It's a game to them; then they go back to > their lives. There is a good education component if it is used in the > right context. I would like to see more people immersed for a week or > more for them to really get an appreciating of it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > Desiree, I too am sickened by your description of what happened in > your class. Now that I am writing my dissertation on blindness > simulations and have direct evidence that they make people think the > blind are less capable, I am really frustrated by all the disability > simulations happening in classrooms today. There is very little > research backing their use as an educational tool, and many disability > activists have argued against their use. Simulations like the earplugs > and blindfolds are generally designed to make people appreciate the > dependency and loss imposed by the condition. > What people don't realize is that the general public already > overestimates how bad it would be to be blind or deaf. So a simulation > only exaggerates the misconceptions that already exist in society, > without addressing the real overlooked issues, like prejudice and discrimination. > > Arielle > > On 5/28/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> When I was still in public school, I believe it was in eighth grade, >> my English teacher wanted us all to come in as disabled students for >> a day. Most kids either shoved earplugs in their ears to simulate >> deafness, or had to write on paper all day to simulate muteness. It >> was sickening, and I usually am not bothered by things like that. It >> was just such a crude representation that it made it completely >> unrealistic. When I asked if I could come in as myself, I was told, >> very sternly, that that would be unacceptable. So I just shoved >> earplugs in my ears like everyone else. Then, when we had to write a >> paper about our experiences, I told that teacher how I really felt, >> and failed the project. >> >> On 5/28/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> LOL! >>> We did something similar in my class on the Family. >>> They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle >>> of cola, and get it to me. >>> It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old >>> fashioned bottle opener! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak >>> [kwakmiso at aol.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha I recommend a novel >>> entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available on Bookshare. >>> Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an >>> interesting read for us blind people. >>> In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. >>> I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up >>> activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did >>> an activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the >>> assigned small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. >>> Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the >>> activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted >>> and blind-folded. >>> The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall >>> make sure the blind-folded gets fed. >>> Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to >>> be a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an >>> educational activity. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: melissa Green >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> If I ruled the world. >>> All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. >>> The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing >>> things that they do to us to them. >>> *dreamful sigh*. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Melissa and Pj >>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>> skype: lissa5674 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National >>> Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> >>> Misty, >>> What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may >>> ask, was this offending person an employee at an establishment where >>> you were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? >>> If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the >>> manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask >>> questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it >>> sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be >>> treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I >>> encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. >>> Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they >>> don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I >>> want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a >>> parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I >>> remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in >>> the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and >>> offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the >>> sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he >>> kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going >>> on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking >>> lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please >>> answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the >>> sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. >>> It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just >>> answered my original question the first time and then I could have >>> moved to the > sidewalk without assistance. >>> I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating >>> of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me >>> I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. >>> I sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them >>> that I will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask >>> them if they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? >>> As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted >>> people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It >>> has been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and >>> would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of >>> these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt >>> in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into >>> depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with >>> everything, but most of these people would be resilient enough (and >>> practical >>> enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, >>> sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would >>> happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually >>> asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform >>> various activities if they became blind, and most said they thought >>> they would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those >>> who had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane >>> without > any training. >>> The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind >>> people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual >>> blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that >>> sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that >>> prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same >>> thing > blind. >>> I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to >>> them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone >>> can learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't >>> special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills >>> because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other >>> choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical >>> for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do >>> take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary >>> cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So >>> to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things >>> done. That's it. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>>> Arielle, >>>> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. >>>> I usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is >>>> just >>> doing >>>> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if >>> there >>>> is >>>> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell >>> them >>>> that >>>> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted >>> people >>>> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything >>>> on >>> their >>>> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing >>> everything >>>> for >>>> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in >>>> life >>> that >>>> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other >>> daily >>>> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and >>> independent >>>> to >>>> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >>>> everyone to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot >>>> more >>> freedom >>>> and >>>> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >>>> understand somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >>>> Misty >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>>> list" >>>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> >>>>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions >>>>> out >>> of >>>>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>>>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about >>>>> how we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second >>>>> date, or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is >>>>> asked out of curiosity or if the questioner has already made up >>>>> his/her > mind. >>>>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt >>>>> and at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't >>>>> want well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their >>>>> questions inside and never learn what they want to learn about >>>>> blindness. I >>> also >>>>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>>>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>>>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>>>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others >>>>> have at times. >>>>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am >>> always >>>>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>>>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>>>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>>>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or >>> brave >>>>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say >>>>> "thank you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I >>>>> feel like by thanking them I am validating what they think about >>>>> blind people >>> being >>>>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself >>>>> just ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other >>>>> times I will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques >>>>> that I use, >>> if >>>>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. >>> LOL >>>>>> Just >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written >>> post. I'm >>>>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The >>> weird >>>>>> writer >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>>>> >>>>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit >>>>>> opposite >>> each >>>>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>> right, a >>>>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball >>> game >>>>>> she >>>>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass >>>>>> us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the >>>>>> kitchen behind me, >>> and >>>>>> my >>>>>> date's cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of >>> smell as >>>>>> I >>>>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We're chatting jovially, >>>>>> our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making >>>>>> people stop, and, >>> I'm >>>>>> sure, >>>>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>>>> >>>>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>> teacher. >>>>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >>>>>> rain, >>> he >>>>>> asks >>>>>> me a very important question. >>>>>> >>>>>> "If you're blind, how can you be a journalist?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>> creeping >>>>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>>>>> were >>> a >>>>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>> sighted >>>>>> person >>>>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's >>> never >>>>>> seen >>>>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and >>>>>> he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer >>>>>> with a >>> screen >>>>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a >>>>>> deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all >>>>>> with a huge >>> smile on >>>>>> my >>>>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many >>> others, >>>>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may >>>>>> not >>> be >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> my >>>>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>>>> >>>>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about >>>>>> speech synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a >>>>>> sentence is uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to >>>>>> talking about sighted >>> people >>>>>> and >>>>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>>>> bullets that are not meant for me. They're angry at the sighted >>>>>> people who >>> ask >>>>>> us >>>>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a >>> common >>>>>> one >>>>>> in the blindness community. >>>>>> >>>>>> "They should know better. Why are they so stupid?" >>>>>> >>>>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >>> point >>>>>> of >>>>>> view. The truth is, they won't be an expert about blindness ways >>>>>> or technology. They shouldn't know better because no one knows >>> everything, >>>>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn't know >>> better. >>>>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>>>> >>>>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, >>>>>> unlocking >>> the >>>>>> right >>>>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>>>>> community >>> who >>>>>> tend >>>>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to >>>>>> people >>> with >>>>>> HIV >>>>>> and aids as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>>>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if >>>>>> they >>> exchange >>>>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, >>> hurt. >>>>>> Upon >>>>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know >>> what HIV >>>>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>>>> >>>>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. >>> Even >>>>>> today, >>>>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>>>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and >>>>>> HIV >>> community. In >>>>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good >>> friendship >>>>>> or >>>>>> relationship because of "offensive questions." That divide grows >>> because >>>>>> we >>>>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one >>> point. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I >>>>>> wondered >>> if >>>>>> it >>>>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. "How am I >>>>>> going >>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> journalist?" with patience, and persistence, I figured out the >>> answers >>>>>> with >>>>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I >>>>>> would >>> have >>>>>> let >>>>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the >>> answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to >>> find >>>>>> out >>>>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know >>>>>> now >>> how >>>>>> to >>>>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >>> answer. >>>>>> I >>>>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then >>>>>> how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >>>>>> someone else >>> as >>>>>> well >>>>>> >>>>>> as >>>>>> me in the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an >>>>>> answer >>> to a >>>>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness >>> along >>>>>> with >>>>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >>> soon, >>>>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>>>>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. >>>>>> There are a lot of >>> other >>>>>> positive things behind that door even if they're not visible >>>>>> immediately. >>>>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far >>> off, >>>>>> such >>>>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I >>>>>> don't >>> want >>>>>> to >>>>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>> computer. >>>>>> If >>>>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in >>>>>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's >>>>>> the only way >>> to >>>>>> end >>>>>> these "offensive questions." >>>>>> >>>>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted >>>>>> date >>> lives >>>>>> in >>>>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>>>>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask >>>>>> questions, and >>> with >>>>>> each >>>>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We're together. >>>>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we're coming >>> together >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> way that offended people won't be able to do for a very long time. >>>>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I >>> could >>>>>> ever >>>>>> give. >>>>>> >>>>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive >>> voice >>>>>> then >>>>>> >>>>>> we >>>>>> can't widen the distance because we're offended at questions. >>>>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as >>>>>> we >>> can, >>>>>> if >>>>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide >>> enough >>>>>> to >>>>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all >>>>>> know >>> each >>>>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace >>> the >>>>>> best >>>>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully >>>>>> educated world, one where I'd be happy to say that this positive >>>>>> change was the >>> result >>>>>> of >>>>>> answering offensive questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and >>>>>> other writing archives */ >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>>>> >>> >> F >>> king >>> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>>>> >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>> >> c >>> umen >>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>>>> >>> >> c >>> umen >>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>>>> / >>> >>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> */ >>>>>> /* >>>>>> >>>>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>>>> >>>>>> Facebook >>>>>> >>> >> o >>> bert >>> kingett> >>>>>> Twitter >>>>>> >>> >> n >>> dwri >>> ter> >>>>>> LinkedIn >>>>>> >>> >> % >>> 2Fki >>> ngettr> >>>>>> YouTube >>>>>> >>> >> r >>> %2Fk >>> ingettspeaks> >>>>>> WordPress >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> Blog RSS >>>>>> >>> >> e >>> ss.c >>> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>>>> My latest comedy review: 'She Kills Monsters': A Fun Game of >>>>>> Chance >>>>>> >>> >> s >>> he-k >>> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppen >>> w >>> olf- theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >>> Long >>>>>> Will >>>>>> I Cry? (play) >>>>>> >>> >> com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry- >>> p >>> lay% >>> 2F> >>>>>> WordPress >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>>>> >>>>>> Read more >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| >>>>>> My blog >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> Share on Facebook >>>>>> >>> >> php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F201 >>> 3 >>> %252 F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> >>>>>> Share on Twitter >>>>>> >>> >> % >>> 2Ftw >>> eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%252 >>> 6 >>> %252 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Get this email app! >>>>>> >>> >> p >>> ps%2 >>> Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term% >>> 3 >>> Dwor >>> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> % >>> 2Fki >>> ngettr> >>>>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>>>> >>> >> 2 >>> Flan >>> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo >>> % >>> 3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253 >>> F >>> utm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dp >>> r >>> omo_ >>> 10>Get >>>>>> yours >>>>>> >>> >> 2 >>> Flan >>> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo >>> % >>> 3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253 >>> F >>> utm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dp >>> r >>> omo_ >>> 10> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail. >>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.c >>> o >>> m >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>> c >>> ua.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Tue May 28 02:42:10 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 22:42:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> <002c01ce5b4b$a6b074e0$f4115ea0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000201ce5b4c$f420de80$dc629b80$@gmail.com> One day does not do it; it is actually worse to be honest. If they experience any success, they have a skewed sense of reality. If you were teaching the sighted how to work with the blind in computers or mobility, you know, blindness skills, the immersion method would be useful at times. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions But in what context could that be successful? There would have to be something in it for the students. It makes sense how sighted O&m instructors would be put under blindfold for part of their training, for example. but to put a bunch of high school kids through that, who are already rebelling at the slightest sign that something isn't going their way? No, that's not happening. I'm not criticizing you, just putting a bit of realism into what you've said. On 5/27/13, justin wrote: > The simulation is bad because you are taking people who don't have any > alternative skills and placing in a situation where that is their only > hope of completing a task. It's a game to them; then they go back to > their lives. There is a good education component if it is used in the > right context. I would like to see more people immersed for a week or > more for them to really get an appreciating of it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > Desiree, I too am sickened by your description of what happened in > your class. Now that I am writing my dissertation on blindness > simulations and have direct evidence that they make people think the > blind are less capable, I am really frustrated by all the disability > simulations happening in classrooms today. There is very little > research backing their use as an educational tool, and many disability > activists have argued against their use. Simulations like the earplugs > and blindfolds are generally designed to make people appreciate the > dependency and loss imposed by the condition. > What people don't realize is that the general public already > overestimates how bad it would be to be blind or deaf. So a simulation > only exaggerates the misconceptions that already exist in society, > without addressing the real overlooked issues, like prejudice and discrimination. > > Arielle > > On 5/28/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> When I was still in public school, I believe it was in eighth grade, >> my English teacher wanted us all to come in as disabled students for >> a day. Most kids either shoved earplugs in their ears to simulate >> deafness, or had to write on paper all day to simulate muteness. It >> was sickening, and I usually am not bothered by things like that. It >> was just such a crude representation that it made it completely >> unrealistic. When I asked if I could come in as myself, I was told, >> very sternly, that that would be unacceptable. So I just shoved >> earplugs in my ears like everyone else. Then, when we had to write a >> paper about our experiences, I told that teacher how I really felt, >> and failed the project. >> >> On 5/28/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> LOL! >>> We did something similar in my class on the Family. >>> They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle >>> of cola, and get it to me. >>> It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old >>> fashioned bottle opener! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak >>> [kwakmiso at aol.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha I recommend a novel >>> entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available on Bookshare. >>> Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an >>> interesting read for us blind people. >>> In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. >>> I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up >>> activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did >>> an activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the >>> assigned small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the campus. >>> Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the >>> activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted >>> and blind-folded. >>> The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall >>> make sure the blind-folded gets fed. >>> Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to >>> be a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an >>> educational activity. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: melissa Green >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> If I ruled the world. >>> All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. >>> The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing >>> things that they do to us to them. >>> *dreamful sigh*. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Melissa and Pj >>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>> skype: lissa5674 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National >>> Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>> >>> >>> Misty, >>> What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may >>> ask, was this offending person an employee at an establishment where >>> you were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? >>> If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the >>> manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask >>> questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it >>> sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be >>> treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I >>> encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. >>> Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they >>> don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I >>> want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a >>> parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I >>> remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in >>> the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and >>> offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the >>> sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he >>> kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going >>> on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking >>> lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please >>> answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the >>> sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. >>> It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just >>> answered my original question the first time and then I could have >>> moved to the > sidewalk without assistance. >>> I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating >>> of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me >>> I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. >>> I sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them >>> that I will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask >>> them if they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? >>> As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted >>> people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It >>> has been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and >>> would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of >>> these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt >>> in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into >>> depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with >>> everything, but most of these people would be resilient enough (and >>> practical >>> enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, >>> sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would >>> happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually >>> asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform >>> various activities if they became blind, and most said they thought >>> they would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those >>> who had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane >>> without > any training. >>> The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind >>> people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual >>> blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that >>> sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that >>> prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same >>> thing > blind. >>> I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to >>> them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone >>> can learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't >>> special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills >>> because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other >>> choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical >>> for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do >>> take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary >>> cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So >>> to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things >>> done. That's it. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>>> Arielle, >>>> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. >>>> I usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is >>>> just >>> doing >>>> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if >>> there >>>> is >>>> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell >>> them >>>> that >>>> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted >>> people >>>> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything >>>> on >>> their >>>> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing >>> everything >>>> for >>>> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in >>>> life >>> that >>>> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other >>> daily >>>> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and >>> independent >>>> to >>>> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >>>> everyone to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot >>>> more >>> freedom >>>> and >>>> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >>>> understand somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >>>> Misty >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>>> list" >>>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> >>>>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions >>>>> out >>> of >>>>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>>>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about >>>>> how we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second >>>>> date, or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is >>>>> asked out of curiosity or if the questioner has already made up >>>>> his/her > mind. >>>>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt >>>>> and at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't >>>>> want well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their >>>>> questions inside and never learn what they want to learn about >>>>> blindness. I >>> also >>>>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>>>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>>>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>>>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others >>>>> have at times. >>>>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am >>> always >>>>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>>>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>>>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>>>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or >>> brave >>>>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say >>>>> "thank you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I >>>>> feel like by thanking them I am validating what they think about >>>>> blind people >>> being >>>>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself >>>>> just ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other >>>>> times I will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques >>>>> that I use, >>> if >>>>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. >>> LOL >>>>>> Just >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written >>> post. I'm >>>>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The >>> weird >>>>>> writer >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>>>> >>>>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit >>>>>> opposite >>> each >>>>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>> right, a >>>>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball >>> game >>>>>> she >>>>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass >>>>>> us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the >>>>>> kitchen behind me, >>> and >>>>>> my >>>>>> date's cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of >>> smell as >>>>>> I >>>>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We're chatting jovially, >>>>>> our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making >>>>>> people stop, and, >>> I'm >>>>>> sure, >>>>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>>>> >>>>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>> teacher. >>>>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >>>>>> rain, >>> he >>>>>> asks >>>>>> me a very important question. >>>>>> >>>>>> "If you're blind, how can you be a journalist?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>> creeping >>>>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>>>>> were >>> a >>>>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>> sighted >>>>>> person >>>>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's >>> never >>>>>> seen >>>>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and >>>>>> he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer >>>>>> with a >>> screen >>>>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a >>>>>> deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all >>>>>> with a huge >>> smile on >>>>>> my >>>>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many >>> others, >>>>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may >>>>>> not >>> be >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> my >>>>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>>>> >>>>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about >>>>>> speech synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a >>>>>> sentence is uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to >>>>>> talking about sighted >>> people >>>>>> and >>>>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>>>> bullets that are not meant for me. They're angry at the sighted >>>>>> people who >>> ask >>>>>> us >>>>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a >>> common >>>>>> one >>>>>> in the blindness community. >>>>>> >>>>>> "They should know better. Why are they so stupid?" >>>>>> >>>>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >>> point >>>>>> of >>>>>> view. The truth is, they won't be an expert about blindness ways >>>>>> or technology. They shouldn't know better because no one knows >>> everything, >>>>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn't know >>> better. >>>>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>>>> >>>>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, >>>>>> unlocking >>> the >>>>>> right >>>>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>>>>> community >>> who >>>>>> tend >>>>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to >>>>>> people >>> with >>>>>> HIV >>>>>> and aids as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>>>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if >>>>>> they >>> exchange >>>>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, >>> hurt. >>>>>> Upon >>>>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know >>> what HIV >>>>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>>>> >>>>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. >>> Even >>>>>> today, >>>>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>>>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and >>>>>> HIV >>> community. In >>>>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good >>> friendship >>>>>> or >>>>>> relationship because of "offensive questions." That divide grows >>> because >>>>>> we >>>>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one >>> point. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I >>>>>> wondered >>> if >>>>>> it >>>>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. "How am I >>>>>> going >>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> journalist?" with patience, and persistence, I figured out the >>> answers >>>>>> with >>>>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I >>>>>> would >>> have >>>>>> let >>>>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the >>> answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to >>> find >>>>>> out >>>>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know >>>>>> now >>> how >>>>>> to >>>>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >>> answer. >>>>>> I >>>>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then >>>>>> how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >>>>>> someone else >>> as >>>>>> well >>>>>> >>>>>> as >>>>>> me in the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an >>>>>> answer >>> to a >>>>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness >>> along >>>>>> with >>>>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >>> soon, >>>>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>>>>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. >>>>>> There are a lot of >>> other >>>>>> positive things behind that door even if they're not visible >>>>>> immediately. >>>>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far >>> off, >>>>>> such >>>>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I >>>>>> don't >>> want >>>>>> to >>>>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>> computer. >>>>>> If >>>>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in >>>>>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's >>>>>> the only way >>> to >>>>>> end >>>>>> these "offensive questions." >>>>>> >>>>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted >>>>>> date >>> lives >>>>>> in >>>>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>>>>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask >>>>>> questions, and >>> with >>>>>> each >>>>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We're together. >>>>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we're coming >>> together >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> way that offended people won't be able to do for a very long time. >>>>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I >>> could >>>>>> ever >>>>>> give. >>>>>> >>>>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive >>> voice >>>>>> then >>>>>> >>>>>> we >>>>>> can't widen the distance because we're offended at questions. >>>>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as >>>>>> we >>> can, >>>>>> if >>>>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide >>> enough >>>>>> to >>>>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all >>>>>> know >>> each >>>>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace >>> the >>>>>> best >>>>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully >>>>>> educated world, one where I'd be happy to say that this positive >>>>>> change was the >>> result >>>>>> of >>>>>> answering offensive questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and >>>>>> other writing archives */ >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>>>> >>> >> F >>> king >>> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>>>> >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>> >> c >>> umen >>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>>>> >>> >> c >>> umen >>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>>>> / >>> >>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> */ >>>>>> /* >>>>>> >>>>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>>>> >>>>>> Facebook >>>>>> >>> >> o >>> bert >>> kingett> >>>>>> Twitter >>>>>> >>> >> n >>> dwri >>> ter> >>>>>> LinkedIn >>>>>> >>> >> % >>> 2Fki >>> ngettr> >>>>>> YouTube >>>>>> >>> >> r >>> %2Fk >>> ingettspeaks> >>>>>> WordPress >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> Blog RSS >>>>>> >>> >> e >>> ss.c >>> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>>>> My latest comedy review: 'She Kills Monsters': A Fun Game of >>>>>> Chance >>>>>> >>> >> s >>> he-k >>> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppen >>> w >>> olf- theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >>> Long >>>>>> Will >>>>>> I Cry? (play) >>>>>> >>> >> com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry- >>> p >>> lay% >>> 2F> >>>>>> WordPress >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>>>> >>>>>> Read more >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| >>>>>> My blog >>>>>> >>> >> d >>> pres >>> s.com%2F> >>>>>> Share on Facebook >>>>>> >>> >> php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F201 >>> 3 >>> %252 F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> >>>>>> Share on Twitter >>>>>> >>> >> % >>> 2Ftw >>> eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%252 >>> 6 >>> %252 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Get this email app! >>>>>> >>> >> p >>> ps%2 >>> Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term% >>> 3 >>> Dwor >>> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> % >>> 2Fki >>> ngettr> >>>>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>>>> >>> >> 2 >>> Flan >>> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo >>> % >>> 3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253 >>> F >>> utm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dp >>> r >>> omo_ >>> 10>Get >>>>>> yours >>>>>> >>> >> 2 >>> Flan >>> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo >>> % >>> 3D10 >>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253 >>> F >>> utm_ >>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dp >>> r >>> omo_ >>> 10> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail. >>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> 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_______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>> c >>> ua.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From weirdwriter9891 at gmail.com Wed May 29 03:06:48 2013 From: weirdwriter9891 at gmail.com (The weird writer) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 22:06:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Interviewing tips from a blind journalist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51A570C8.5090608@gmail.com> just thought I would like to share. http://blindchicagodream.wordpress.com/2013/05/29/interviewing-tips-from-a-blind-journalist/ From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed May 29 03:14:42 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 21:14:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <000201ce5b4c$f420de80$dc629b80$@gmail.com> References: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> <002c01ce5b4b$a6b074e0$f4115ea0$@gmail.com> <000201ce5b4c$f420de80$dc629b80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: The NFB centers frequently use immersion, or at least skill training in conjunction with blindfolding. Once I am graduated with my own lab, I would like to rigorously test out some of these immersion programs and day-long skill training programs to see if they actually improve attitudes, as they very well could. Desiree does make a good point, though, that the people who choose to do longer immersion-style simulations are probably going to be more motivated than those who are just blindfolded for a half-hour or a day. There are ways to test out these programs through random assignment (randomly assigning people to either do the simulation, the immersion or nothing for example) and paying them a bunch of money to do whatever they are randomly assigned to do, just to see if immersion is beneficial. But if it is, then we would need to find a creative way to make ordinary people with no blindness connection want to do it. I suspect that shorter immersions might be just as effective if they have certain key elements, like the presence of blind people and lots of opportunities for people to progress in their blindness skills. Arielle On 5/27/13, justin wrote: > One day does not do it; it is actually worse to be honest. If they > experience any success, they have a skewed sense of reality. If you were > teaching the sighted how to work with the blind in computers or mobility, > you know, blindness skills, the immersion method would be useful at times. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > But in what context could that be successful? There would have to be > something in it for the students. It makes sense how sighted O&m > instructors > would be put under blindfold for part of their training, for example. but > to > put a bunch of high school kids through that, who are already rebelling at > the slightest sign that something isn't going their way? No, that's not > happening. I'm not criticizing you, just putting a bit of realism into what > you've said. > > On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >> The simulation is bad because you are taking people who don't have any >> alternative skills and placing in a situation where that is their only >> hope of completing a task. It's a game to them; then they go back to >> their lives. There is a good education component if it is used in the >> right context. I would like to see more people immersed for a week or >> more for them to really get an appreciating of it. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:19 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> Desiree, I too am sickened by your description of what happened in >> your class. Now that I am writing my dissertation on blindness >> simulations and have direct evidence that they make people think the >> blind are less capable, I am really frustrated by all the disability >> simulations happening in classrooms today. There is very little >> research backing their use as an educational tool, and many disability >> activists have argued against their use. Simulations like the earplugs >> and blindfolds are generally designed to make people appreciate the >> dependency and loss imposed by the condition. >> What people don't realize is that the general public already >> overestimates how bad it would be to be blind or deaf. So a simulation >> only exaggerates the misconceptions that already exist in society, >> without addressing the real overlooked issues, like prejudice and > discrimination. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/28/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> When I was still in public school, I believe it was in eighth grade, >>> my English teacher wanted us all to come in as disabled students for >>> a day. Most kids either shoved earplugs in their ears to simulate >>> deafness, or had to write on paper all day to simulate muteness. It >>> was sickening, and I usually am not bothered by things like that. It >>> was just such a crude representation that it made it completely >>> unrealistic. When I asked if I could come in as myself, I was told, >>> very sternly, that that would be unacceptable. So I just shoved >>> earplugs in my ears like everyone else. Then, when we had to write a >>> paper about our experiences, I told that teacher how I really felt, >>> and failed the project. >>> >>> On 5/28/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> LOL! >>>> We did something similar in my class on the Family. >>>> They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle >>>> of cola, and get it to me. >>>> It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old >>>> fashioned bottle opener! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak >>>> [kwakmiso at aol.com] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha I recommend a novel >>>> entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available on Bookshare. >>>> Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an >>>> interesting read for us blind people. >>>> In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. >>>> I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up >>>> activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did >>>> an activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the >>>> assigned small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the >>>> campus. >>>> Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the >>>> activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: sighted >>>> and blind-folded. >>>> The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall >>>> make sure the blind-folded gets fed. >>>> Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to >>>> be a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an >>>> educational activity. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: melissa Green >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> If I ruled the world. >>>> All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. >>>> The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing >>>> things that they do to us to them. >>>> *dreamful sigh*. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Melissa and Pj >>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National >>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> >>>> Misty, >>>> What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may >>>> ask, was this offending person an employee at an establishment where >>>> you were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social >>>> group? >>>> If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the >>>> manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask >>>> questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it >>>> sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be >>>> treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I >>>> encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. >>>> Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they >>>> don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I >>>> want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a >>>> parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I >>>> remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in >>>> the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and >>>> offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the >>>> sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me he >>>> kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and going >>>> on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the parking >>>> lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you please >>>> answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on the >>>> sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. >>>> It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just >>>> answered my original question the first time and then I could have >>>> moved to the >> sidewalk without assistance. >>>> I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating >>>> of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me >>>> I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. >>>> I sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them >>>> that I will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask >>>> them if they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this >>>> way? >>>> As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted >>>> people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It >>>> has been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and >>>> would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of >>>> these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt >>>> in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into >>>> depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with >>>> everything, but most of these people would be resilient enough (and >>>> practical >>>> enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. However, >>>> sighted people looking into the future don't realize that this would >>>> happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I actually >>>> asked sighted people how well they thought they could perform >>>> various activities if they became blind, and most said they thought >>>> they would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse for those >>>> who had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane >>>> without >> any training. >>>> The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind >>>> people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual >>>> blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that >>>> sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that >>>> prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same >>>> thing >> blind. >>>> I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to >>>> them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone >>>> can learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't >>>> special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills >>>> because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other >>>> choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical >>>> for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do >>>> take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary >>>> cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So >>>> to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things >>>> done. That's it. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>>>> Arielle, >>>>> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. >>>>> I usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is >>>>> just >>>> doing >>>>> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if >>>> there >>>>> is >>>>> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell >>>> them >>>>> that >>>>> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted >>>> people >>>>> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything >>>>> on >>>> their >>>>> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing >>>> everything >>>>> for >>>>> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in >>>>> life >>>> that >>>>> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other >>>> daily >>>>> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and >>>> independent >>>>> to >>>>> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >>>>> everyone to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot >>>>> more >>>> freedom >>>>> and >>>>> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >>>>> understand somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >>>>> Misty >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions >>>>>> out >>>> of >>>>>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>>>>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about >>>>>> how we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second >>>>>> date, or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is >>>>>> asked out of curiosity or if the questioner has already made up >>>>>> his/her >> mind. >>>>>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt >>>>>> and at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't >>>>>> want well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their >>>>>> questions inside and never learn what they want to learn about >>>>>> blindness. I >>>> also >>>>>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>>>>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>>>>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>>>>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others >>>>>> have at times. >>>>>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am >>>> always >>>>>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>>>>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>>>>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>>>>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or >>>> brave >>>>>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say >>>>>> "thank you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I >>>>>> feel like by thanking them I am validating what they think about >>>>>> blind people >>>> being >>>>>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself >>>>>> just ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other >>>>>> times I will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques >>>>>> that I use, >>>> if >>>>>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>>>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. >>>> LOL >>>>>>> Just >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written >>>> post. I'm >>>>>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The >>>> weird >>>>>>> writer >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit >>>>>>> opposite >>>> each >>>>>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>>> right, a >>>>>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball >>>> game >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass >>>>>>> us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the >>>>>>> kitchen behind me, >>>> and >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> date's cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of >>>> smell as >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We're chatting jovially, >>>>>>> our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making >>>>>>> people stop, and, >>>> I'm >>>>>>> sure, >>>>>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>>> teacher. >>>>>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >>>>>>> rain, >>>> he >>>>>>> asks >>>>>>> me a very important question. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "If you're blind, how can you be a journalist?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>>> creeping >>>>>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>>>>>> were >>>> a >>>>>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>>> sighted >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's >>>> never >>>>>>> seen >>>>>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and >>>>>>> he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer >>>>>>> with a >>>> screen >>>>>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a >>>>>>> deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all >>>>>>> with a huge >>>> smile on >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many >>>> others, >>>>>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may >>>>>>> not >>>> be >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about >>>>>>> speech synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a >>>>>>> sentence is uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to >>>>>>> talking about sighted >>>> people >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>>>>> bullets that are not meant for me. They're angry at the sighted >>>>>>> people who >>>> ask >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a >>>> common >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> in the blindness community. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "They should know better. Why are they so stupid?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >>>> point >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> view. The truth is, they won't be an expert about blindness ways >>>>>>> or technology. They shouldn't know better because no one knows >>>> everything, >>>>>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn't know >>>> better. >>>>>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, >>>>>>> unlocking >>>> the >>>>>>> right >>>>>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>>>>>> community >>>> who >>>>>>> tend >>>>>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to >>>>>>> people >>>> with >>>>>>> HIV >>>>>>> and aids as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>>>>> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if >>>>>>> they >>>> exchange >>>>>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, >>>> hurt. >>>>>>> Upon >>>>>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know >>>> what HIV >>>>>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. >>>> Even >>>>>>> today, >>>>>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>>>>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and >>>>>>> HIV >>>> community. In >>>>>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good >>>> friendship >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> relationship because of "offensive questions." That divide grows >>>> because >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one >>>> point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I >>>>>>> wondered >>>> if >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>>>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. "How am I >>>>>>> going >>>> to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> journalist?" with patience, and persistence, I figured out the >>>> answers >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I >>>>>>> would >>>> have >>>>>>> let >>>>>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the >>>> answer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to >>>> find >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know >>>>>>> now >>>> how >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >>>> answer. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then >>>>>>> how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >>>>>>> someone else >>>> as >>>>>>> well >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> me in the future. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an >>>>>>> answer >>>> to a >>>>>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness >>>> along >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >>>> soon, >>>>>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>>>>>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. >>>>>>> There are a lot of >>>> other >>>>>>> positive things behind that door even if they're not visible >>>>>>> immediately. >>>>>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far >>>> off, >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I >>>>>>> don't >>>> want >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>>> computer. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in >>>>>>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's >>>>>>> the only way >>>> to >>>>>>> end >>>>>>> these "offensive questions." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted >>>>>>> date >>>> lives >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>>>>>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask >>>>>>> questions, and >>>> with >>>>>>> each >>>>>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We're together. >>>>>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we're coming >>>> together >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> way that offended people won't be able to do for a very long time. >>>>>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I >>>> could >>>>>>> ever >>>>>>> give. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive >>>> voice >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> can't widen the distance because we're offended at questions. >>>>>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as >>>>>>> we >>>> can, >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide >>>> enough >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all >>>>>>> know >>>> each >>>>>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace >>>> the >>>>>>> best >>>>>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully >>>>>>> educated world, one where I'd be happy to say that this positive >>>>>>> change was the >>>> result >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> answering offensive questions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and >>>>>>> other writing archives */ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>>>>> >>>> >>> F >>>> king >>>> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> >>>> >>> c >>>> umen >>>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>>>>> >>>> >>> c >>>> umen >>>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>>>>> / >>>> >>>> * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> */ >>>>>>> /* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>>>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Facebook >>>>>>> >>>> >>> o >>>> bert >>>> kingett> >>>>>>> Twitter >>>>>>> >>>> >>> n >>>> dwri >>>> ter> >>>>>>> LinkedIn >>>>>>> >>>> >>> % >>>> 2Fki >>>> ngettr> >>>>>>> YouTube >>>>>>> >>>> >>> r >>>> %2Fk >>>> ingettspeaks> >>>>>>> WordPress >>>>>>> >>>> >>> d >>>> pres >>>> s.com%2F> >>>>>>> Blog RSS >>>>>>> >>>> >>> e >>>> ss.c >>>> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>>>>> My latest comedy review: 'She Kills Monsters': A Fun Game of >>>>>>> Chance >>>>>>> >>>> >>> s >>>> he-k >>>> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppen >>>> w >>>> olf- theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>>>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >>>> Long >>>>>>> Will >>>>>>> I Cry? 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>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.c >>>> o >>>> m >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>>> c >>>> ua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed May 29 04:06:46 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 00:06:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <002d01ce5b4c$4a75a870$df60f950$@gmail.com> References: <51a55d4a.2b56ec0a.28e2.ffffe71b@mx.google.com> <002d01ce5b4c$4a75a870$df60f950$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wow, did that person think you wouldn't be able to smell the difference? That's easy enough to do, even with sight. Some people are just cruel. I've had people pull chairs out from under me as I was about to sit in them, or take books off the desk I was using, things like that. And once, when I was riding the bus, I needed to go to the end of the line, you know, the last stop. As I was leaving the bus, I heard the driver say, "good, I was hoping you meant to get off here. If you hadn't, I would have left you here to see if you knew where you were." I couldn't resist, so I asked him what would have happened if I'd stayed on? he kind of chuckled and responded that he had all day to drive around, and I had all day to stay on if I so chose. There is no education for people like that, I'm afraid. On 5/27/13, justin wrote: > Well said about the colors and fashions. I find myself explaining the > technology quite readily. I am a little hesitant to explain environment > landmarks and certain other things such as keystrokes or specific > techniques. I've had people move my chair, or turn something around > because they though it was funny. Recently I had someone offer me a shot > and tell it was a gglass of wine. He didn't fool me, but I was a little > annoyed with that. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > Melissa, while I had to laugh at your funny email, I disagree with you. If > we want sighties to stop patronizing us, we have to be polite and > respectful to them. If we don't educate them and instead be rude to them > and patronize them, no progress will be made. I know it's hard. I know it's > not been easy to be respectful and patient. Sometimes, when I'm reading or > writing and someone asks me ten billion questions about my braillenote like > it's some kind of machine from outer space, I just wanna say, "I'm busy > here. Leave me alone." But because I want them to know that I can do > anything they can do and to prove that my blindness doesn't make me an > antisocial psychopath, I stop and briefly explain my braillenote to them. > The same goes for my iPhone with voiceover or anything else I use or do. > Patience can get us places. After all, a lot of times sighties have to > explain things to us (or at least to me) about things like colors and > fashion. All I'm saying is, treat others how you wanna be treated. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "melissa Green" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 28 May 2013 16:32:18 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > If I ruled the world. > All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. > The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing things > that they do to us to them. > *dreamful sigh*. > > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > skype: lissa5674 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National Association > of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > > Misty, > What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may > ask, > was this offending person an employee at an establishment where > you > were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social > group? > If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the > manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask > questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it > sounds > like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be > treated, > and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I > encounter > on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes > if I > do need some information and ask a question, they don't really > listen > to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For > example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get > to a > restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it > had > been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to > avoid > the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back > on > the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been > removed, > but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me > get > back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for > me to > be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him > and > say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are > there > barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the > barricades had > been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he > had > just answered my original question the first time and then I > could > have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. > I also think the patronizing actions of others are most > frustrating of > all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me > I'm > doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I > sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them > that I > will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if > they > would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? > As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted > people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It > has > been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and > would, > adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of > these > doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in > order > to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into > depression, > or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but > most of > these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to > learn > the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted > people > looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In > one > of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted > people > how well they thought they could perform various activities if > they > became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely > incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been > blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any > training. > The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind > people > were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind > people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted > people think about how they would do it and then use that > prediction > to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing > blind. > I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across > to > them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone > can > learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't > special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these > skills > because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other > choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not > practical > for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we > do > take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort > (monetary > cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). > So > to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get > things > done. That's it. > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Arielle, > I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" > also. I > usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is > just doing > what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it > if there > is > time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just > tell them > that > I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of > sighted people > tell me that they could never travel independently or do > anything on their > own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing > everything > for > them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in > life that > need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many > other daily > things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and > independent > to > do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying > on > everyone > to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more > freedom > and > flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they > can > understand > somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students mailing > list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > > Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions > out of > doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already > believe we can't do something and answering their question about > how > we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second > date, or > whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out > of > curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. > However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the > doubt and > at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want > well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their > questions > inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. > I also > agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a > question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be > addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any > questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others > have > at times. > I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am > always > stumped when some stranger tells me I am > amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how > to > respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also > attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or > brave > just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say > "thank > you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel > like by > thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people > being > amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself > just > ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other > times I > will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I > use, if > time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: > Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. > LOL > Just > > to > chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written > post. I'm > sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The > weird > writer > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit > opposite each > other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate > right, a > woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball > game > she > missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women > pass us > making > their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind > me, and > my > date?셲 cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of > smell as > I > gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We?셱e chatting > jovially, our > laughter > dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, > and, I'm > sure, > stare at this interracial gay couple. > > When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a > teacher. > With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like > rain, he > asks > me a very important question. > > ?쏧f you?셱e blind, how can you be a journalist??? > > Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of > creeping > towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it > were a > chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive > sighted > person > away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's > never > seen > adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and > he's > certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a > screen > reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a > deep > breath, > I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge > smile on > my > face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many > others, > instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may > not be > in > > my > world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. > > Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about > speech > synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence > is > uttered > without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted > people > and > their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like > sharp > bullets > that are not meant for me. They?셱e angry at the sighted people > who ask > us > how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become > a common > one > in the blindness community. > > ?쏷hey should know better. Why are they so stupid??? > > When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the > sighted point > of > view. The truth is, they won?셳 be an expert about blindness > ways or > technology. They shouldn?셳 know better because no one knows > everything, > especially about a different way of living. They shouldn?셳 > know better. > Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. > > Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, > unlocking the > right > doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled > community who > tend > to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to > people with > HIV > and aids as well. > > I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS > gets > offended > when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they > exchange > saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, > hurt. > Upon > further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know > what HIV > did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. > > A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. > Even > today, > the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and > acceptance, > even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV > community. In > today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good > friendship > or > relationship because of ?쐎ffensive questions.??That divide > grows because > we > are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one > point. > > When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I > wondered if > it > would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field > reporting. > I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. ?쏦ow am I > going to > be > > a > journalist???with patience, and persistence, I figured out the > answers > with > trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I > would have > let > my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the > answer. > > I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to > find > out > that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know > now how > to > better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an > answer. > I > couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then > how > blissful > would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone > else as > well > > as > me in the future. > > I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an > answer to a > question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness > along > with > their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, > and soon, > acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't > just > satisfy > curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot > of other > positive things behind that door even if they?셱e not visible > immediately. > Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are > far off, > such > as advocacy born from awareness. > > When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I > don?셳 want > to > divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a > computer. > If > education breeds positive results then people who live in > different > conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only > way to > end > these ?쐎ffensive questions.?? > > The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted > date lives > in > an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've > never > lived > through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and > with > each > answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We?셱e together. > With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we?셱e coming > together > in > > a > way that offended people won?셳 be able to do for a very long > time. > He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I > could > ever > give. > > If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive > voice > then > > we > can't widen the distance because we?셱e offended at questions. > Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as > we can, > if > asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide > enough > to > let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all > know each > other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace > the > best > teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully > educated > world, > one where I?셝 be happy to say that this positive change was > the result > of > answering offensive questions. > > /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and > other > writing > archives */ > > *Click here to view my resume* > > e%2Fkingettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt > > * > > Fdocument%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchg > lY>* > > *Click here to see my writing archive > > Fdocument%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchg > lY>* > > *Click here to view my website/ > / > 2F>* > > */ > /* > > */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * > *Tel: 850 764 2161 * > > Facebook > > 2Frobertkingett > Twitter > > blindwriter > LinkedIn > > Fin%2Fkingettr > YouTube > > user%2Fkingettspeaks > WordPress > > wordpress.com%2F > Blog RSS > > dpress.com%2Ffeed%2F > My latest comedy review: ?쁓he Kills Monsters?? A Fun Game of > Chance > > %2Fshe-kills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-thea > ter-steppenwolf-theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F > My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: > How Long > Will > I Cry? (play) > > rdpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long- > will-i-cry-play%2F > WordPress > > wordpress.com%2F > My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other > news > > wordpress.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other > -news%2F > > Read more > > wordpress.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other > -news%2F>| > My blog > > wordpress.com%2F > Share on Facebook > > Fsharer.php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress. > com%252F2013%252F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-n > ews%252F > ?꿙hare on Twitter > > ent%2Ftweet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520 > it%2520%2526%2520other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestam > p%29 > > > Get this email app! > > 2Fapps%2Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail% > 26utm_term%3Dwordpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps > > > Fin%2Fkingettr > Designed with WiseStamp - > > Fr%2Flanding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407 > 891%26promo%3D10%26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%25 > 2Femail-install%253Futm_source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253De > mail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_10>Get > yours > > Fr%2Flanding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407 > 891%26promo%3D10%26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%25 > 2Femail-install%253Futm_source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253De > mail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_10 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley > %40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > > > From somojan94 at gmail.com Wed May 29 05:16:02 2013 From: somojan94 at gmail.com (Somaya Tarin) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 22:16:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Room mates for national convention Message-ID: <0650E6C0-D847-4C30-9CB6-23BF4AFD12D6@gmail.com> Hi, My name is Somaya and I'm from Arizona. I'm looking for room mates for convention. I need my room mates to be female. You can email me off list at somojan94 at gmail.com. Thank you, Somaya TARIN Sent from my iPhone From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Tue May 28 05:27:22 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 01:27:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: References: <8D02A0B5275DEDE-834-F0FE@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> <002c01ce5b4b$a6b074e0$f4115ea0$@gmail.com> <000201ce5b4c$f420de80$dc629b80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001ce5b64$08831a70$19894f50$@gmail.com> That bus driver was something; I may have reported him in case he was able to entrap another person who is blind. I have had a lot of silly things happen over the years; I'm jaded, which is hwy I use the off speed pitch from time to time. A joke, an intellectual statement, or a random remark can be a useful tool for me. I dance to my own drum. More importantly, it gets their wheels spinning about something else other than how inspired I make them by simply existing. Shake them up a little; why not? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions The NFB centers frequently use immersion, or at least skill training in conjunction with blindfolding. Once I am graduated with my own lab, I would like to rigorously test out some of these immersion programs and day-long skill training programs to see if they actually improve attitudes, as they very well could. Desiree does make a good point, though, that the people who choose to do longer immersion-style simulations are probably going to be more motivated than those who are just blindfolded for a half-hour or a day. There are ways to test out these programs through random assignment (randomly assigning people to either do the simulation, the immersion or nothing for example) and paying them a bunch of money to do whatever they are randomly assigned to do, just to see if immersion is beneficial. But if it is, then we would need to find a creative way to make ordinary people with no blindness connection want to do it. I suspect that shorter immersions might be just as effective if they have certain key elements, like the presence of blind people and lots of opportunities for people to progress in their blindness skills. Arielle On 5/27/13, justin wrote: > One day does not do it; it is actually worse to be honest. If they > experience any success, they have a skewed sense of reality. If you > were teaching the sighted how to work with the blind in computers or > mobility, you know, blindness skills, the immersion method would be useful at times. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > But in what context could that be successful? There would have to be > something in it for the students. It makes sense how sighted O&m > instructors would be put under blindfold for part of their training, > for example. but to put a bunch of high school kids through that, who > are already rebelling at the slightest sign that something isn't going > their way? No, that's not happening. I'm not criticizing you, just > putting a bit of realism into what you've said. > > On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >> The simulation is bad because you are taking people who don't have >> any alternative skills and placing in a situation where that is their >> only hope of completing a task. It's a game to them; then they go >> back to their lives. There is a good education component if it is >> used in the right context. I would like to see more people immersed >> for a week or more for them to really get an appreciating of it. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:19 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> Desiree, I too am sickened by your description of what happened in >> your class. Now that I am writing my dissertation on blindness >> simulations and have direct evidence that they make people think the >> blind are less capable, I am really frustrated by all the disability >> simulations happening in classrooms today. There is very little >> research backing their use as an educational tool, and many >> disability activists have argued against their use. Simulations like >> the earplugs and blindfolds are generally designed to make people >> appreciate the dependency and loss imposed by the condition. >> What people don't realize is that the general public already >> overestimates how bad it would be to be blind or deaf. So a >> simulation only exaggerates the misconceptions that already exist in >> society, without addressing the real overlooked issues, like >> prejudice and > discrimination. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/28/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> When I was still in public school, I believe it was in eighth grade, >>> my English teacher wanted us all to come in as disabled students for >>> a day. Most kids either shoved earplugs in their ears to simulate >>> deafness, or had to write on paper all day to simulate muteness. It >>> was sickening, and I usually am not bothered by things like that. It >>> was just such a crude representation that it made it completely >>> unrealistic. When I asked if I could come in as myself, I was told, >>> very sternly, that that would be unacceptable. So I just shoved >>> earplugs in my ears like everyone else. Then, when we had to write a >>> paper about our experiences, I told that teacher how I really felt, >>> and failed the project. >>> >>> On 5/28/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> LOL! >>>> We did something similar in my class on the Family. >>>> They blind-folded the students and made them open up a glass bottle >>>> of cola, and get it to me. >>>> It was fun listening to them struggle to open it with the old >>>> fashioned bottle opener! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Miso Kwak >>>> [kwakmiso at aol.com] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> LOL I had to laugh reading Melissa's email. haha I recommend a >>>> novel entitled Blindness by Jose Saramago. It's available on Bookshare. >>>> Although advocacy for the blind is not the central theme it's an >>>> interesting read for us blind people. >>>> In the novel, everybody in the world except for one person goes blind. >>>> I read this book in my AP Literature class and as one of follow-up >>>> activities, the teacher divided my class into small groups and did >>>> an activity where a sighted reader would take the rest of the >>>> assigned small group(blind-folded) to different locations on the >>>> campus. >>>> Aside from the book, at a leadership camp I went to for one of the >>>> activities we did, the campers were divided into two groups: >>>> sighted and blind-folded. >>>> The sighted students had to take the blind-folded to dining hall >>>> make sure the blind-folded gets fed. >>>> Although its main lessons were learning how to request help, how to >>>> be a reliable person, empathy, respect, etc I thought it was an >>>> educational activity. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: melissa Green >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 3:31 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> If I ruled the world. >>>> All of the sighted people would be blind for a few years. >>>> The blind would be in control and we would do all the patronizing >>>> things that they do to us to them. >>>> *dreamful sigh*. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Melissa and Pj >>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: "Misty Dawn Bradley" ; "National >>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> >>>> Misty, >>>> What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may >>>> ask, was this offending person an employee at an establishment >>>> where you were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your >>>> social group? >>>> If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the >>>> manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask >>>> questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it >>>> sounds like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to >>>> be treated, and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like >>>> strangers I encounter on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. >>>> Sometimes if I do need some information and ask a question, they >>>> don't really listen to my question and just say what they think I >>>> want to hear. For example, on Saturday I was walking through a >>>> parking lot to get to a restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but >>>> I remembered that it had been under construction and was walking in >>>> the parking lot to avoid the construction. Someone came up and >>>> offered to help me get back on the sidewalk. I asked him if the >>>> sidewalk barricades had been removed, but instead of answering me >>>> he kept saying he wanted to help me get back on the sidewalk and >>>> going on about how dangerous it was for me to be walking in the >>>> parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and say "Could you >>>> please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there barricades on >>>> the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had been removed. >>>> It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had just >>>> answered my original question the first time and then I could have >>>> moved to the >> sidewalk without assistance. >>>> I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating >>>> of all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me >>>> I'm doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. >>>> I sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them >>>> that I will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask >>>> them if they would speak to an adult of my educational stature this >>>> way? >>>> As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted >>>> people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It >>>> has been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and >>>> would, adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any >>>> of these doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to >>>> adapt in order to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse >>>> into depression, or be rich enough to hire full-time help with >>>> everything, but most of these people would be resilient enough (and >>>> practical >>>> enough) to learn the exact same skills we take for granted. >>>> However, sighted people looking into the future don't realize that >>>> this would happen. In one of my blindness simulation experiments I >>>> actually asked sighted people how well they thought they could >>>> perform various activities if they became blind, and most said they >>>> thought they would be extremely incapable. Notably, this was worse >>>> for those who had just been blindfolded and asked to walk around >>>> with a cane without >> any training. >>>> The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind >>>> people were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual >>>> blind people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that >>>> sighted people think about how they would do it and then use that >>>> prediction to make a judgment about how others would do the same >>>> thing >> blind. >>>> I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to >>>> them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone >>>> can learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't >>>> special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills >>>> because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other >>>> choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical >>>> for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we >>>> do take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort >>>> (monetary cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our >>>> freedom). So to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways >>>> to get things done. That's it. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>>>> Arielle, >>>>> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. >>>>> I usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is >>>>> just >>>> doing >>>>> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if >>>> there >>>>> is >>>>> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell >>>> them >>>>> that >>>>> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted >>>> people >>>>> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything >>>>> on >>>> their >>>>> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing >>>> everything >>>>> for >>>>> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in >>>>> life >>>> that >>>>> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many >>>>> other >>>> daily >>>>> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and >>>> independent >>>>> to >>>>> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying >>>>> on everyone to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a >>>>> lot more >>>> freedom >>>>> and >>>>> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >>>>> understand somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >>>>> Misty >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions >>>>>> out >>>> of >>>>>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>>>>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about >>>>>> how we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second >>>>>> date, or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is >>>>>> asked out of curiosity or if the questioner has already made up >>>>>> his/her >> mind. >>>>>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt >>>>>> and at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't >>>>>> want well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their >>>>>> questions inside and never learn what they want to learn about >>>>>> blindness. I >>>> also >>>>>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>>>>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>>>>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>>>>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others >>>>>> have at times. >>>>>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am >>>> always >>>>>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>>>>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>>>>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>>>>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or >>>> brave >>>>>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say >>>>>> "thank you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I >>>>>> feel like by thanking them I am validating what they think about >>>>>> blind people >>>> being >>>>>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself >>>>>> just ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other >>>>>> times I will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques >>>>>> that I use, >>>> if >>>>>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>>>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. >>>> LOL >>>>>>> Just >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written >>>> post. I'm >>>>>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The >>>> weird >>>>>>> writer >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit >>>>>>> opposite >>>> each >>>>>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >>>> right, a >>>>>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball >>>> game >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women >>>>>>> pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the >>>>>>> kitchen behind me, >>>> and >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> date's cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of >>>> smell as >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We're chatting jovially, >>>>>>> our laughter dicing holes in conversations around us, making >>>>>>> people stop, and, >>>> I'm >>>>>>> sure, >>>>>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >>>> teacher. >>>>>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >>>>>>> rain, >>>> he >>>>>>> asks >>>>>>> me a very important question. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "If you're blind, how can you be a journalist?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >>>> creeping >>>>>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >>>>>>> were >>>> a >>>>>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >>>> sighted >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's >>>> never >>>>>>> seen >>>>>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and >>>>>>> he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer >>>>>>> with a >>>> screen >>>>>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a >>>>>>> deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all >>>>>>> with a huge >>>> smile on >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many >>>> others, >>>>>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may >>>>>>> not >>>> be >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about >>>>>>> speech synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a >>>>>>> sentence is uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to >>>>>>> talking about sighted >>>> people >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like >>>>>>> sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They're angry at the >>>>>>> sighted people who >>>> ask >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become >>>>>>> a >>>> common >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> in the blindness community. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "They should know better. Why are they so stupid?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the >>>>>>> sighted >>>> point >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> view. The truth is, they won't be an expert about blindness ways >>>>>>> or technology. They shouldn't know better because no one knows >>>> everything, >>>>>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn't know >>>> better. >>>>>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, >>>>>>> unlocking >>>> the >>>>>>> right >>>>>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >>>>>>> community >>>> who >>>>>>> tend >>>>>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to >>>>>>> people >>>> with >>>>>>> HIV >>>>>>> and aids as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS >>>>>>> gets offended when a potential partner asks him if he will >>>>>>> contract if they >>>> exchange >>>>>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, >>>> hurt. >>>>>>> Upon >>>>>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know >>>> what HIV >>>>>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. >>>> Even >>>>>>> today, >>>>>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>>>>> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, >>>>>>> and HIV >>>> community. In >>>>>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good >>>> friendship >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> relationship because of "offensive questions." That divide grows >>>> because >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one >>>> point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I >>>>>>> wondered >>>> if >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>>>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. "How am I >>>>>>> going >>>> to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> journalist?" with patience, and persistence, I figured out the >>>> answers >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I >>>>>>> would >>>> have >>>>>>> let >>>>>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the >>>> answer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to >>>> find >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know >>>>>>> now >>>> how >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >>>> answer. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then >>>>>>> how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would >>>>>>> help someone else >>>> as >>>>>>> well >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> me in the future. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an >>>>>>> answer >>>> to a >>>>>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness >>>> along >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, >>>>>>> and >>>> soon, >>>>>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >>>>>>> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. >>>>>>> There are a lot of >>>> other >>>>>>> positive things behind that door even if they're not visible >>>>>>> immediately. >>>>>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are >>>>>>> far >>>> off, >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I >>>>>>> don't >>>> want >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >>>> computer. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in >>>>>>> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's >>>>>>> the only way >>>> to >>>>>>> end >>>>>>> these "offensive questions." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted >>>>>>> date >>>> lives >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >>>>>>> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask >>>>>>> questions, and >>>> with >>>>>>> each >>>>>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We're together. >>>>>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we're coming >>>> together >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> way that offended people won't be able to do for a very long time. >>>>>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I >>>> could >>>>>>> ever >>>>>>> give. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive >>>> voice >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> can't widen the distance because we're offended at questions. >>>>>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as >>>>>>> we >>>> can, >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide >>>> enough >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all >>>>>>> know >>>> each >>>>>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace >>>> the >>>>>>> best >>>>>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully >>>>>>> educated world, one where I'd be happy to say that this positive >>>>>>> change was the >>>> result >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> answering offensive questions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and >>>>>>> other writing archives */ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>>>>> >>>> >>> 2 >>>> F >>>> king >>>> ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> >>>> >>> o >>>> c >>>> umen >>>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>>>>> >>>> >>> o >>>> c >>>> umen >>>> t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>>>>> / >>>> >>> > >>>> * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> */ >>>>>>> /* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>>>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Facebook >>>>>>> >>>> >>> r >>>> o >>>> bert >>>> kingett> >>>>>>> Twitter >>>>>>> >>>> >>> i >>>> n >>>> dwri >>>> ter> >>>>>>> LinkedIn >>>>>>> >>>> >>> n >>>> % >>>> 2Fki >>>> ngettr> >>>>>>> YouTube >>>>>>> >>>> >>> e >>>> r >>>> %2Fk >>>> ingettspeaks> >>>>>>> WordPress >>>>>>> >>>> >>> r >>>> d >>>> pres >>>> s.com%2F> >>>>>>> Blog RSS >>>>>>> >>>> >>> r >>>> e >>>> ss.c >>>> om%2Ffeed%2F> >>>>>>> My latest comedy review: 'She Kills Monsters': A Fun Game of >>>>>>> Chance >>>>>>> >>>> >>> F >>>> s >>>> he-k >>>> ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppe >>>> n >>>> w >>>> olf- theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>>>>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: >>>>>>> How >>>> Long >>>>>>> Will >>>>>>> I Cry? (play) >>>>>>> >>>> > >>> com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry >>>> - >>>> p >>>> lay% >>>> 2F> >>>>>>> WordPress >>>>>>> >>>> >>> r >>>> d >>>> pres >>>> s.com%2F> >>>>>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other >>>>>>> news >>>>>>> >>>> >>> r >>>> d >>>> pres >>>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Read more >>>>>>> >>>> >>> r >>>> d >>>> pres >>>> s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| >>>>>>> My blog >>>>>>> >>>> >>> r >>>> d >>>> pres >>>> s.com%2F> >>>>>>> Share on Facebook >>>>>>> >>>> > >>> php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F20 >>>> 1 >>>> 3 >>>> %252 F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F> >>>>>>> Share on Twitter >>>>>>> >>>> >>> t >>>> % >>>> 2Ftw >>>> eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%25 >>>> 2 >>>> 6 >>>> %252 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Get this email app! >>>>>>> >>>> >>> a >>>> p >>>> ps%2 >>>> Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term >>>> % >>>> 3 >>>> Dwor >>>> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> n >>>> % >>>> 2Fki >>>> ngettr> >>>>>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>>>>> >>>> >>> % >>>> 2 >>>> Flan >>>> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26prom >>>> o >>>> % >>>> 3D10 >>>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%25 >>>> 3 >>>> F >>>> utm_ >>>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253D >>>> p >>>> r >>>> omo_ >>>> 10>Get >>>>>>> yours >>>>>>> >>>> >>> % >>>> 2 >>>> Flan >>>> ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26prom >>>> o >>>> % >>>> 3D10 >>>> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%25 >>>> 3 >>>> F >>>> utm_ >>>> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253D >>>> p >>>> r >>>> omo_ >>>> 10> >>>>>>> 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0 >>>> g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> m >> ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Wed May 29 12:20:35 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 12:20:35 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Needing some advice! Message-ID: I know this is off topic for this list, but I have nowhere else to turn. If any of you have any ideas, please feel free to E-Mail me off list. I had a group on Yahoo Groups. Well, two months ago, I started having problems sending Youtube videos to the group! I deleted the Yahoo Group, and moved us to Fiesta. Now, Fiesta's site is up, but I can't send anything to my list! Google Groups like I said earlier won't let me use them, until I update my browsers. I need something that will work with IE8! Also, Free Lists won't let me use them, because my group doesn't fit their topics! Is there another free listserve out there? Again, so we don't clutter this list with this, please write me off list. Thanks, Joshua From kaybaycar at gmail.com Wed May 29 14:48:25 2013 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:48:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <002a01ce5b4a$faf4d560$f0de8020$@gmail.com> References: <9FF3F37F544F4BF7904D6BBC1A0EA77A@HP30910210001> <002a01ce5b4a$faf4d560$f0de8020$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I recently graduated from college. The public relations people here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, that this was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was about how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind person. If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president was giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned people who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree online while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, I've lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants were given to me. Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about resilence as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, and the fact that we have overcome something that they think insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. I think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it all amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! On 5/27/13, justin wrote: > I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing when > someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that anytime > someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set which is > unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond ordinary in that > particular context, but rarely do I think they are amazing. While > educating > people and opening their minds is nice; that is something that everyone in > their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to assume > that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing for a blind man." > At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring moments so > to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of them I don't. After > a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where it goes, > and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. Other times > I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. It is > good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a human > level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely nothing. > Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa Green > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would want to > parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe the school. > After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like everyone > else. > I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into the music > room and sit in my chair. > I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. > No relying on others. > It took me a while to get out of that thought process. > When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. > . > I could go on and on about my childhood too. > But I won't. > I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made over me > because of my blindness. > When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony they wanted > to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as well as put a cap > and > gown on her. > I said absolutely not! > I would include her in my own way. > That is what I did. > I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. > It was my choice and noone else's. > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > skype: lissa5674 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > > Hi all, > I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells me I > am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it > because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that > compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind > person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, even > though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being told > that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great > perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I don't > think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my > educational achievements and compared with many others my life has > been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel they > are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about me, > my upbringing or anything I've done. > I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on > blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know > how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. just > exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an inspiration > is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled with > a lot of internal and external demands. > When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my > parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. When > I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for > company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I > was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees > and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not to > the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some > musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted > kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and > through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in our > local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the > newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me to > write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded > people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I > blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I eventually > realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, but > not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or poetry > at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing was > because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued > people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing before I > eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me out > to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to resent > all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that > "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. But > I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one hand, > I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an > amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held to > an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic > independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about my > ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the crowd > of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just > boys) instead. > Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" failed my > algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were some > problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like answering > on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to > fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to > earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, I > bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a > human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an > inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my algebra > teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class at > the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with my > performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't > succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, > ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, I > wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I > could to succeed in school. > OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the > unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as damaging > as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to > figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced > into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we > have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and we > have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at > something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted folks > with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous > standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and > weaknesses. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Wed May 29 16:09:01 2013 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 12:09:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: <9FF3F37F544F4BF7904D6BBC1A0EA77A@HP30910210001> <002a01ce5b4a$faf4d560$f0de8020$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a job, living independently), I do think that we need a greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle many of the challenges we face as blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and negative attitudes from the general public, but they are nonetheless challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, and self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer of the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the reality of our society, many blind people are not given the appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the label of "amazing" may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale probably works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general public, I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I do make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me on being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but because I do not have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are willing and able, but on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I know we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite (albeit passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as aggressive and confrontational. Katie On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi all, > > I recently graduated from college. The public relations people here > wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating with > honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, that this > was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was about > how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind person. > > If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president was > giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned people > who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that were > difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person > mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree online > while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl > who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I > felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major > with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people > who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, I've > lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants were > given to me. > > Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about resilence > as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most > sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to > overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, and > the fact that we have overcome something that they think > insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. I > think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face > discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive > questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a > lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it all > amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us > resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, > but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. Facing > the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. > > Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! > > On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing when >> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that >> anytime >> someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set which is >> unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond ordinary in that >> particular context, but rarely do I think they are amazing. While >> educating >> people and opening their minds is nice; that is something that everyone >> in >> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to assume >> that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing for a blind >> man." >> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring moments >> so >> to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of them I don't. >> After >> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where it >> goes, >> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. Other >> times >> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. It is >> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a human >> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely nothing. >> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa >> Green >> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would want to >> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe the >> school. >> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like everyone >> else. >> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into the music >> room and sit in my chair. >> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >> No relying on others. >> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >> . >> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >> But I won't. >> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made over me >> because of my blindness. >> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony they >> wanted >> to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as well as put a cap >> and >> gown on her. >> I said absolutely not! >> I would include her in my own way. >> That is what I did. >> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >> It was my choice and noone else's. >> Sincerely, >> Melissa and Pj >> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green >> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >> skype: lissa5674 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> >> Hi all, >> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells me I >> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it >> because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that >> compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind >> person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, even >> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being told >> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great >> perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I don't >> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >> educational achievements and compared with many others my life has >> been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel they >> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about me, >> my upbringing or anything I've done. >> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on >> blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know >> how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. just >> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an inspiration >> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled with >> a lot of internal and external demands. >> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. When >> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I >> was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees >> and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not to >> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in our >> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me to >> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I >> blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I eventually >> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, but >> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or poetry >> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing was >> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued >> people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing before I >> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me out >> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to resent >> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that >> "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. But >> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one hand, >> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an >> amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held to >> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about my >> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the crowd >> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >> boys) instead. >> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" failed my >> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were some >> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like answering >> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to >> earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, I >> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a >> human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my algebra >> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class at >> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with my >> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't >> succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, >> ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, I >> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >> could to succeed in school. >> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as damaging >> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to >> figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced >> into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we >> have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and we >> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted folks >> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >> weaknesses. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, > Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, > and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed May 29 20:31:58 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 16:31:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Epub books on the VictorReader Stream? Message-ID: Hi guys, Can epub books be read on the VictorReader Stream? If so, what folder do I put it in and how do I put it there? I have an epub book called "The Behaviour Book" about behavior in the 19th century, and I want to be able to read it on my Stream. If it can't be read on the Stream, how do I read it? Thank you for any help, and I remain Yours, Jewel From dburke at cocenter.org Wed May 29 20:56:11 2013 From: dburke at cocenter.org (Dan Burke) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 14:56:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Epub books on the VictorReader Stream? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002701ce5cae$f4bf0f70$de3d2e50$@cocenter.org> Epub can be read on the original Victor Stream, but only if the $50 softpack has been installed. You can find out by using the Info key (Zero); it will say "softpack" if it's installed. If you have the softpack, you put the epub in the $VRDTB folder, the same place you put Bookshare and BARD books. If you have an iPhone, you can read epub with a number of apps, including Nook, iBooks, and possibly Blio. There used to be an epub reader add-in for Firefox, but I don't know if it is current right now. Chrome may have epub capability as well. Dan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:32 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Epub books on the VictorReader Stream? Hi guys, Can epub books be read on the VictorReader Stream? If so, what folder do I put it in and how do I put it there? I have an epub book called "The Behaviour Book" about behavior in the 19th century, and I want to be able to read it on my Stream. If it can't be read on the Stream, how do I read it? Thank you for any help, and I remain Yours, Jewel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org From dsykora29 at gmail.com Wed May 29 21:03:19 2013 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 17:03:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: <9FF3F37F544F4BF7904D6BBC1A0EA77A@HP30910210001> <002a01ce5b4a$faf4d560$f0de8020$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, I am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine whether a compliment is truely desserved. I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. Just some thoughts, Danielle On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: > Hi all, > > This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with > what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind people > should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for accomplishing > ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a job, living > independently), I do think that we need a greater-than-average level > of resilience to successfully handle many of the challenges we face as > blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly > caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and > negative attitudes from the general public, but they are nonetheless > challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, and > self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people > generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their > college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative > techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer of > the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness can > be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the reality > of our society, many blind people are not given the appropriate > training and opportunities by default and do in fact need to overcome > more obstacles in order to accomplish things in life that might > otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the label of "amazing" > may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale probably > works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from > college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around > independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. > > With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general public, > I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I do > make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular basis > so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a competent, > capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so with > strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me on being > amazing many times, not because I agree with them but because I do not > have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I > think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, many > sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as excessive > helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though they do come > across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of the personal > opinion that we should educate as much as we are willing and able, but > on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I know > we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite (albeit > passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as > aggressive and confrontational. > > Katie > > > On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people here >> wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating with >> honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, that this >> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was about >> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind person. >> >> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president was >> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned people >> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that were >> difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree online >> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl >> who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I >> felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major >> with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people >> who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, I've >> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants were >> given to me. >> >> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about resilence >> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, and >> the fact that we have overcome something that they think >> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. I >> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it all >> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, >> but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. Facing >> the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >> >> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >> >> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing when >>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that >>> anytime >>> someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set which is >>> unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond ordinary in that >>> particular context, but rarely do I think they are amazing. While >>> educating >>> people and opening their minds is nice; that is something that everyone >>> in >>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to >>> assume >>> that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing for a blind >>> man." >>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring moments >>> so >>> to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of them I don't. >>> After >>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where it >>> goes, >>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. Other >>> times >>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. It >>> is >>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a human >>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely nothing. >>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa >>> Green >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would want to >>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe the >>> school. >>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like everyone >>> else. >>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into the >>> music >>> room and sit in my chair. >>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>> No relying on others. >>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>> . >>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>> But I won't. >>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made over me >>> because of my blindness. >>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony they >>> wanted >>> to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as well as put a cap >>> and >>> gown on her. >>> I said absolutely not! >>> I would include her in my own way. >>> That is what I did. >>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>> Sincerely, >>> Melissa and Pj >>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green >>> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>> skype: lissa5674 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells me I >>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it >>> because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that >>> compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind >>> person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, even >>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being told >>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great >>> perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I don't >>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life has >>> been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel they >>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about me, >>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on >>> blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know >>> how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. just >>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an inspiration >>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled with >>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. When >>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I >>> was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees >>> and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not to >>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in our >>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me to >>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I >>> blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I eventually >>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, but >>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or poetry >>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing was >>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued >>> people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing before I >>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me out >>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to resent >>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that >>> "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. But >>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one hand, >>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an >>> amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held to >>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about my >>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the crowd >>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>> boys) instead. >>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" failed my >>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were some >>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like answering >>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to >>> earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, I >>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a >>> human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my algebra >>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class at >>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with my >>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't >>> succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, >>> ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, I >>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>> could to succeed in school. >>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as damaging >>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to >>> figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced >>> into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we >>> have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and we >>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted folks >>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>> weaknesses. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed May 29 23:14:19 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 17:14:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: <9FF3F37F544F4BF7904D6BBC1A0EA77A@HP30910210001> <002a01ce5b4a$faf4d560$f0de8020$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and desires. When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to work full-time while going to school, for example. Arielle On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: > Hi all, > > This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, I > am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most people > do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as > complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of > my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or > successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine > whether a compliment is truely desserved. > > I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. > Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a > daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. > However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. > > Just some thoughts, > Danielle > > On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind people >> should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for accomplishing >> ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a job, living >> independently), I do think that we need a greater-than-average level >> of resilience to successfully handle many of the challenges we face as >> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are nonetheless >> challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, and >> self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer of >> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness can >> be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the reality >> of our society, many blind people are not given the appropriate >> training and opportunities by default and do in fact need to overcome >> more obstacles in order to accomplish things in life that might >> otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the label of "amazing" >> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale probably >> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >> >> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general public, >> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I do >> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular basis >> so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a competent, >> capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so with >> strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me on being >> amazing many times, not because I agree with them but because I do not >> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, many >> sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as excessive >> helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though they do come >> across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of the personal >> opinion that we should educate as much as we are willing and able, but >> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I know >> we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite (albeit >> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >> aggressive and confrontational. >> >> Katie >> >> >> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people here >>> wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating with >>> honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, that this >>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was about >>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind person. >>> >>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president was >>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned people >>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that were >>> difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree online >>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl >>> who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I >>> felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major >>> with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people >>> who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, I've >>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants were >>> given to me. >>> >>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about resilence >>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, and >>> the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. I >>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it all >>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, >>> but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. Facing >>> the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>> >>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>> >>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing when >>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that >>>> anytime >>>> someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set which is >>>> unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond ordinary in that >>>> particular context, but rarely do I think they are amazing. While >>>> educating >>>> people and opening their minds is nice; that is something that everyone >>>> in >>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to >>>> assume >>>> that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing for a blind >>>> man." >>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>> moments >>>> so >>>> to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of them I don't. >>>> After >>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where it >>>> goes, >>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. Other >>>> times >>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. It >>>> is >>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a human >>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely nothing. >>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa >>>> Green >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would want to >>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe the >>>> school. >>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like everyone >>>> else. >>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into the >>>> music >>>> room and sit in my chair. >>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>> No relying on others. >>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>> . >>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>> But I won't. >>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made over >>>> me >>>> because of my blindness. >>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony they >>>> wanted >>>> to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as well as put a >>>> cap >>>> and >>>> gown on her. >>>> I said absolutely not! >>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>> That is what I did. >>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Melissa and Pj >>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>>> Green >>>> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells me I >>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it >>>> because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that >>>> compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind >>>> person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, even >>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being told >>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great >>>> perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I don't >>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life has >>>> been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel they >>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about me, >>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on >>>> blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know >>>> how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. just >>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an inspiration >>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled with >>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. When >>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I >>>> was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees >>>> and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not to >>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in our >>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me to >>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I >>>> blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I eventually >>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, but >>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or poetry >>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing was >>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued >>>> people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing before I >>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me out >>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to resent >>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that >>>> "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. But >>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one hand, >>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an >>>> amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held to >>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about my >>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the crowd >>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>> boys) instead. >>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" failed my >>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were some >>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like answering >>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to >>>> earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, I >>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a >>>> human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my algebra >>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class at >>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with my >>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't >>>> succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, >>>> ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, I >>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>> could to succeed in school. >>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as damaging >>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to >>>> figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced >>>> into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we >>>> have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and we >>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted folks >>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>> weaknesses. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >>> life." >>> John 3:16 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From lissa1531 at gmail.com Thu May 30 00:09:36 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 18:09:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com><005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <64221F7A22AC47C68BA0AFEEE007D241@HP30910210001> here is another twist to this topic. I have discovered that each time I have to explain that I am blind, for getting transportation to somewhere, or trying to get something accessible for me. The first thing I hear is sorry. I usually say no reason to be sorry. How do you handle that. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Arielle, Interesting points here. I was at a wedding reception a few weeks ago. Two of my mom's friends had gotten married. While I was there, the bride's brother, who's about a year older than me, sat down and talked to me. At first, he didn't even realize I was blind. I could tell because he kept making hand gestures and stuff to demonstrate his points, or pointing at things. I explained that I couldn't see what he was doing, and he just went on and on about how amazing I must be because I'm blind. He did ask some genuine questions, which I answered to the best of my ability, but after each question was answered, he repeatedly reiterated how he would never be able to do those things because he had been sighted all his life. He said, "You were born blind. You don't know what you've missed. Sighted people rely on their vision for everything." Then he took me to stand out in the rain with him. he said, "how can you enjoy the rain if you can't see?" So I had to explain the fresh scent (we were in the country), the feel of the cool, refreshing drops, and the relaxing sound as it gently hit the leaves and the grass. he thought that over for a minute, then asked me if I identified colors by smells. I must have looked at him like he had 8 heads, because he tried to say that green would smell like fresh-cut grass, red would smell like flowing blood after you've cut yourself, and blue would be the smell of a clear, crisp day at dawn. While his descriptions were poetic, I walked away from that meeting with him that night feeling a bit disgruntled. We exchanged phone numbers, but we haven't talked since. I'm not sure if I should. On the one hand, he was trying to put things in perspective, but on the other hand, he also seemed just a little too fixated on the fact that sight must play an integral role in anyone's life who has it. I even explained about the friends I've known who have lost their sight later in life and adapted, but that seemed to have little effect on him. then again, we were both drinking, so that may have been a factor. You know, sighted people think that being cut off from that sense would cut them off from reality. But don't people feel the same way about technology nowadays? How many people would welcome a massive power outage that would leave them stranded for weeks or months without their electronic devices, their computers, their refrigerators, their heaters or air conditioners, even amenities like toilets or traffic lights...What would we do? How would we cope? Likewise, how many people do you know who seem glued to their smart phones? they put them down for 30 seconds and they panic, wondering how many facebook statuses and tweets they've missed. I consider that to be a bit unhealthy. And yet everyone has their dependencies. Are all dependencies unhealthy? Are they just human nature? Or is there some way to eliminate the dependencies themselves, some way to foster the idea of adaptability, so that the fear itself wouldn't breed so much ignorance? On 5/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Misty, > What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, > was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you > were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? > If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the > manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask > questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds > like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, > and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter > on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I > do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen > to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For > example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a > restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had > been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid > the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on > the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, > but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get > back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to > be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and > say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there > barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had > been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had > just answered my original question the first time and then I could > have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. > I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of > all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm > doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I > sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I > will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they > would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? > As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted > people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has > been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, > adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these > doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order > to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, > or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of > these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn > the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people > looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one > of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people > how well they thought they could perform various activities if they > became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely > incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been > blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. > The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people > were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind > people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted > people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction > to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. > I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to > them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can > learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't > special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills > because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other > choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical > for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do > take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary > cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So > to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things > done. That's it. > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Arielle, >> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I >> usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just >> doing >> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if there >> is >> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell them >> that >> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted people >> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on >> their >> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing everything >> for >> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life that >> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other daily >> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and independent >> to >> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >> everyone >> to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more freedom >> and >> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >> understand >> somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> >>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of >>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >>> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >>> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >>> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >>> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >>> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >>> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also >>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >>> at times. >>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always >>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave >>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >>> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >>> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being >>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >>> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >>> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if >>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL >>>> Just >>>> >>>> to >>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. >>>> I'm >>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >>>> writer >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game >>>> she >>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>>> making >>>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >>>> my >>>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as >>>> I >>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>>> laughter >>>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >>>> sure, >>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>> >>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >>>> asks >>>> me a very important question. >>>> >>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>> >>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >>>> person >>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >>>> seen >>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>>> breath, >>>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >>>> my >>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be >>>> in >>>> >>>> my >>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>> >>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>>> uttered >>>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people >>>> and >>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>> bullets >>>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask >>>> us >>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a >>>> common >>>> one >>>> in the blindness community. >>>> >>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>> >>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >>>> of >>>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>> >>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >>>> right >>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >>>> tend >>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >>>> HIV >>>> and aids as well. >>>> >>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>> offended >>>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >>>> Upon >>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what >>>> HIV >>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>> >>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>>> today, >>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>> acceptance, >>>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >>>> or >>>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows >>>> because >>>> we >>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >>>> >>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if >>>> it >>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to >>>> be >>>> >>>> a >>>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >>>> with >>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >>>> let >>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >>>> >>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>>> out >>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how >>>> to >>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. >>>> I >>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>>> blissful >>>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as >>>> well >>>> >>>> as >>>> me in the future. >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>>> with >>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>>> satisfy >>>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of >>>> other >>>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>>> immediately. >>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >>>> such >>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>> >>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >>>> want >>>> to >>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. >>>> If >>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to >>>> end >>>> these “offensive questions.” >>>> >>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >>>> lives >>>> in >>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>>> lived >>>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with >>>> each >>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together >>>> in >>>> >>>> a >>>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could >>>> ever >>>> give. >>>> >>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>>> then >>>> >>>> we >>>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >>>> can, >>>> if >>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >>>> to >>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the >>>> best >>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>>> world, >>>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result >>>> of >>>> answering offensive questions. >>>> >>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>>> writing >>>> archives */ >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>> / * >>>> >>>> */ >>>> /* >>>> >>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>> >>>> Facebook >>>> >>>> Twitter >>>> >>>> LinkedIn >>>> >>>> YouTube >>>> >>>> WordPress >>>> >>>> Blog RSS >>>> >>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>>> >>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >>>> Will >>>> I Cry? (play) >>>> >>>> WordPress >>>> >>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>> >>>> >>>> Read more >>>> | >>>> My blog >>>> >>>> Share on Facebook >>>> >>>>  Share on Twitter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Get this email app! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>> Get >>>> yours >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Wed May 29 00:31:26 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 20:31:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <64221F7A22AC47C68BA0AFEEE007D241@HP30910210001> References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com><005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> <64221F7A22AC47C68BA0AFEEE007D241@HP30910210001> Message-ID: <000601ce5c03$db4f2ee0$91ed8ca0$@gmail.com> I says "nothing to be sorry for; it is what itt is." Or What did you do wrong? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa Green Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions here is another twist to this topic. I have discovered that each time I have to explain that I am blind, for getting transportation to somewhere, or trying to get something accessible for me. The first thing I hear is sorry. I usually say no reason to be sorry. How do you handle that. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Arielle, Interesting points here. I was at a wedding reception a few weeks ago. Two of my mom's friends had gotten married. While I was there, the bride's brother, who's about a year older than me, sat down and talked to me. At first, he didn't even realize I was blind. I could tell because he kept making hand gestures and stuff to demonstrate his points, or pointing at things. I explained that I couldn't see what he was doing, and he just went on and on about how amazing I must be because I'm blind. He did ask some genuine questions, which I answered to the best of my ability, but after each question was answered, he repeatedly reiterated how he would never be able to do those things because he had been sighted all his life. He said, "You were born blind. You don't know what you've missed. Sighted people rely on their vision for everything." Then he took me to stand out in the rain with him. he said, "how can you enjoy the rain if you can't see?" So I had to explain the fresh scent (we were in the country), the feel of the cool, refreshing drops, and the relaxing sound as it gently hit the leaves and the grass. he thought that over for a minute, then asked me if I identified colors by smells. I must have looked at him like he had 8 heads, because he tried to say that green would smell like fresh-cut grass, red would smell like flowing blood after you've cut yourself, and blue would be the smell of a clear, crisp day at dawn. While his descriptions were poetic, I walked away from that meeting with him that night feeling a bit disgruntled. We exchanged phone numbers, but we haven't talked since. I'm not sure if I should. On the one hand, he was trying to put things in perspective, but on the other hand, he also seemed just a little too fixated on the fact that sight must play an integral role in anyone's life who has it. I even explained about the friends I've known who have lost their sight later in life and adapted, but that seemed to have little effect on him. then again, we were both drinking, so that may have been a factor. You know, sighted people think that being cut off from that sense would cut them off from reality. But don't people feel the same way about technology nowadays? How many people would welcome a massive power outage that would leave them stranded for weeks or months without their electronic devices, their computers, their refrigerators, their heaters or air conditioners, even amenities like toilets or traffic lights...What would we do? How would we cope? Likewise, how many people do you know who seem glued to their smart phones? they put them down for 30 seconds and they panic, wondering how many facebook statuses and tweets they've missed. I consider that to be a bit unhealthy. And yet everyone has their dependencies. Are all dependencies unhealthy? Are they just human nature? Or is there some way to eliminate the dependencies themselves, some way to foster the idea of adaptability, so that the fear itself wouldn't breed so much ignorance? On 5/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Misty, > What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, > was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you > were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? > If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the > manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask > questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds > like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, > and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter > on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I > do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen > to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For > example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a > restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had > been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid > the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on > the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, > but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get > back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to > be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and > say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there > barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had > been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had > just answered my original question the first time and then I could > have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. > I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of > all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm > doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I > sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I > will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they > would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? > As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted > people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has > been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, > adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these > doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order > to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, > or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of > these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn > the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people > looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one > of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people > how well they thought they could perform various activities if they > became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely > incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been > blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. > The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people > were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind > people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted > people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction > to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. > I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to > them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can > learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't > special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills > because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other > choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical > for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do > take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary > cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So > to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things > done. That's it. > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Arielle, >> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I >> usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just >> doing >> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if there >> is >> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell them >> that >> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted people >> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on >> their >> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing everything >> for >> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life that >> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other daily >> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and independent >> to >> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >> everyone >> to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more freedom >> and >> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >> understand >> somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> >>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of >>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >>> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >>> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >>> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >>> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >>> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >>> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also >>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >>> at times. >>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always >>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave >>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >>> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >>> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being >>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >>> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >>> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if >>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL >>>> Just >>>> >>>> to >>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. >>>> I'm >>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >>>> writer >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game >>>> she >>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>>> making >>>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >>>> my >>>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as >>>> I >>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>>> laughter >>>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >>>> sure, >>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>> >>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >>>> asks >>>> me a very important question. >>>> >>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>> >>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >>>> person >>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >>>> seen >>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>>> breath, >>>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >>>> my >>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be >>>> in >>>> >>>> my >>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>> >>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>>> uttered >>>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people >>>> and >>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>> bullets >>>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask >>>> us >>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a >>>> common >>>> one >>>> in the blindness community. >>>> >>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>> >>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >>>> of >>>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>> >>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >>>> right >>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >>>> tend >>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >>>> HIV >>>> and aids as well. >>>> >>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>> offended >>>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >>>> Upon >>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what >>>> HIV >>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>> >>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>>> today, >>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>> acceptance, >>>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >>>> or >>>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows >>>> because >>>> we >>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >>>> >>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if >>>> it >>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to >>>> be >>>> >>>> a >>>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >>>> with >>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >>>> let >>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >>>> >>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>>> out >>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how >>>> to >>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. >>>> I >>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>>> blissful >>>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as >>>> well >>>> >>>> as >>>> me in the future. >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>>> with >>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>>> satisfy >>>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of >>>> other >>>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>>> immediately. >>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >>>> such >>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>> >>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >>>> want >>>> to >>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. >>>> If >>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to >>>> end >>>> these “offensive questions.” >>>> >>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >>>> lives >>>> in >>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>>> lived >>>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with >>>> each >>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together >>>> in >>>> >>>> a >>>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could >>>> ever >>>> give. >>>> >>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>>> then >>>> >>>> we >>>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >>>> can, >>>> if >>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >>>> to >>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the >>>> best >>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>>> world, >>>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result >>>> of >>>> answering offensive questions. >>>> >>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>>> writing >>>> archives */ >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>> / * >>>> >>>> */ >>>> /* >>>> >>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>> >>>> Facebook >>>> >>>> Twitter >>>> >>>> LinkedIn >>>> >>>> YouTube >>>> >>>> WordPress >>>> >>>> Blog RSS >>>> >>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>>> >>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >>>> Will >>>> I Cry? (play) >>>> >>>> WordPress >>>> >>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>> >>>> >>>> Read more >>>> | >>>> My blog >>>> >>>> Share on Facebook >>>> >>>>  Share on Twitter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Get this email app! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>> Get >>>> yours >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Thu May 30 01:23:02 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 21:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions In-Reply-To: <000601ce5c03$db4f2ee0$91ed8ca0$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce5c03$db4f2ee0$91ed8ca0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D02AEB5CD21325-2338-36E19@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com> Just read bunch of emails... I agree with Justin that disability simulation is educational depending on context. For example, the leadership camp I mentioned previously was teaching empathy and importance of communication through the blind folding and hand tying activities. Yes, the students most likely felt that being blind or not being able to use hands are extremely uncomfortable and limiting but the discussion afterward were not about those inconviniences. Actually in my second year of attendance I was asked to speak about how my life is as a blind person after the blind folding activity. I initially said I wouldn't speak but I ended up talking about how my life is just normal like many others. Arielle's point sounds interesting. I would love to know the outcome. I am horrified to read some of the episodes for I have no memory that are scar to me about being ridiculously treated because I am blind except for some instances where my younger brothers were just being jerks.. It's matter of siblings though so it's a different story in my opinion. Or maybe I have too strong immune system to some unfair treatments. haha But I have definitely experienced how some people say "I am sorry that you are blind" as Melissa mentioned. Usually these comments were from my friends or younger students and I just say "Nothing to be sorry about" or "I believe God has purpose" if I know the other is Christian. (As a Christian I really think this way) What I find even worse is "I hope you could see some day" As an oxymoron, however, I feel most comfortable with a person when I could freely admit "I wish I could see(these diagrams, you dancing, etc)" I say such a comment when I know that the person doesn't have any pity in me that she/he just thinks of me as a person. Miso -----Original Message----- From: justin To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions I says "nothing to be sorry for; it is what itt is." Or What did you do wrong? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa Green Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions here is another twist to this topic. I have discovered that each time I have to explain that I am blind, for getting transportation to somewhere, or trying to get something accessible for me. The first thing I hear is sorry. I usually say no reason to be sorry. How do you handle that. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Arielle, Interesting points here. I was at a wedding reception a few weeks ago. Two of my mom's friends had gotten married. While I was there, the bride's brother, who's about a year older than me, sat down and talked to me. At first, he didn't even realize I was blind. I could tell because he kept making hand gestures and stuff to demonstrate his points, or pointing at things. I explained that I couldn't see what he was doing, and he just went on and on about how amazing I must be because I'm blind. He did ask some genuine questions, which I answered to the best of my ability, but after each question was answered, he repeatedly reiterated how he would never be able to do those things because he had been sighted all his life. He said, "You were born blind. You don't know what you've missed. Sighted people rely on their vision for everything." Then he took me to stand out in the rain with him. he said, "how can you enjoy the rain if you can't see?" So I had to explain the fresh scent (we were in the country), the feel of the cool, refreshing drops, and the relaxing sound as it gently hit the leaves and the grass. he thought that over for a minute, then asked me if I identified colors by smells. I must have looked at him like he had 8 heads, because he tried to say that green would smell like fresh-cut grass, red would smell like flowing blood after you've cut yourself, and blue would be the smell of a clear, crisp day at dawn. While his descriptions were poetic, I walked away from that meeting with him that night feeling a bit disgruntled. We exchanged phone numbers, but we haven't talked since. I'm not sure if I should. On the one hand, he was trying to put things in perspective, but on the other hand, he also seemed just a little too fixated on the fact that sight must play an integral role in anyone's life who has it. I even explained about the friends I've known who have lost their sight later in life and adapted, but that seemed to have little effect on him. then again, we were both drinking, so that may have been a factor. You know, sighted people think that being cut off from that sense would cut them off from reality. But don't people feel the same way about technology nowadays? How many people would welcome a massive power outage that would leave them stranded for weeks or months without their electronic devices, their computers, their refrigerators, their heaters or air conditioners, even amenities like toilets or traffic lights...What would we do? How would we cope? Likewise, how many people do you know who seem glued to their smart phones? they put them down for 30 seconds and they panic, wondering how many facebook statuses and tweets they've missed. I consider that to be a bit unhealthy. And yet everyone has their dependencies. Are all dependencies unhealthy? Are they just human nature? Or is there some way to eliminate the dependencies themselves, some way to foster the idea of adaptability, so that the fear itself wouldn't breed so much ignorance? On 5/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Misty, > What happened to you yesterday sounds very aggravating. If I may ask, > was this offending person an employee at an establishment where you > were hanging out, or just someone who was part of your social group? > If she was an employee, then perhaps you might want to call the > manager and complain about what happened? It's one thing to ask > questions, but what's maddening about this situation is that it sounds > like you told her how you do things, and how you prefer to be treated, > and she simply didn't listen. I often feel like strangers I encounter > on the street don't fully listen to what I am saying. Sometimes if I > do need some information and ask a question, they don't really listen > to my question and just say what they think I want to hear. For > example, on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot to get to a > restaurant. There was a sidewalk path, but I remembered that it had > been under construction and was walking in the parking lot to avoid > the construction. Someone came up and offered to help me get back on > the sidewalk. I asked him if the sidewalk barricades had been removed, > but instead of answering me he kept saying he wanted to help me get > back on the sidewalk and going on about how dangerous it was for me to > be walking in the parking lot. Anyway, I finally had to stop him and > say "Could you please answer the question I'm asking you? Are there > barricades on the sidewalk?" and finally he told me the barricades had > been removed. It would have gone much faster for both of us if he had > just answered my original question the first time and then I could > have moved to the sidewalk without assistance. > I also think the patronizing actions of others are most frustrating of > all. Too often I have people patting me on the arm or telling me I'm > doing a good job as I walk by them, as if I need a cheerleader. I > sometimes am tempted to grab some of these people, inform them that I > will be receiving my Ph.D. in the next year, and then ask them if they > would speak to an adult of my educational stature this way? > As a psychologist I am really intrigued by the ways that sighted > people think about how they would behave if they became blind. It has > been well-documented that people neglect how much they can, and would, > adapt to new situations over time. The fact is that if any of these > doubting sighted folks became blind, they would have to adapt in order > to keep living their lives. Some of them might lapse into depression, > or be rich enough to hire full-time help with everything, but most of > these people would be resilient enough (and practical enough) to learn > the exact same skills we take for granted. However, sighted people > looking into the future don't realize that this would happen. In one > of my blindness simulation experiments I actually asked sighted people > how well they thought they could perform various activities if they > became blind, and most said they thought they would be extremely > incapable. Notably, this was worse for those who had just been > blindfolded and asked to walk around with a cane without any training. > The participants' ratings of how capable they would be as blind people > were closely related to their ratings of how capable actual blind > people would be at the exact same tasks, suggesting that sighted > people think about how they would do it and then use that prediction > to make a judgment about how others would do the same thing blind. > I think when we work on educating people, we want to get across to > them that blindness techniques are things that pretty much anyone can > learn. Those of us who have learned blindness techniques aren't > special and we don't have superpowers. We just learned these skills > because we were motivated to do normal things and we had no other > choice but to use the alternative skills. It's simply not practical > for most of us to have sighted help doing everything, and when we do > take sighted assistance there is often a cost of some sort (monetary > cost, being a burden on others or giving up some of our freedom). So > to minimize these costs we figure out nonvisual ways to get things > done. That's it. > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Arielle, >> I get those same comments about being "amazing" or "inspiring" also. I >> usually just respond by saying that I am a normal person who is just >> doing >> what they need to do in life. I try to explain also how I do it if there >> is >> time, but usually I do not know what to say either, so I just tell them >> that >> I just do what I need to do like other people do. A lot of sighted people >> tell me that they could never travel independently or do anything on >> their >> own if they were blind and that they would have someone doing everything >> for >> them all of the time. I just tell them that there are things in life that >> need to get done, such as grocery shopping, working, and many other daily >> things, and it is much easier and makes me feel more free and independent >> to >> do these things when I want to do them instead of always relying on >> everyone >> to take me or do it for me on their own time. I have a lot more freedom >> and >> flexibility that way. Sometimes, when I put it that way, they can >> understand >> somewhat what I mean, and they will tell me so. >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> >>> Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of >>> doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already >>> believe we can't do something and answering their question about how >>> we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or >>> whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of >>> curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. >>> However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and >>> at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want >>> well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions >>> inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also >>> agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a >>> question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be >>> addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any >>> questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have >>> at times. >>> I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always >>> stumped when some stranger tells me I am >>> amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to >>> respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also >>> attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave >>> just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank >>> you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by >>> thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being >>> amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just >>> ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I >>> will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if >>> time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >>>> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL >>>> Just >>>> >>>> to >>>> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. >>>> I'm >>>> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >>>> writer >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >>>> >>>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >>>> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >>>> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game >>>> she >>>> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >>>> making >>>> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >>>> my >>>> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as >>>> I >>>> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >>>> laughter >>>> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >>>> sure, >>>> stare at this interracial gay couple. >>>> >>>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >>>> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >>>> asks >>>> me a very important question. >>>> >>>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>>> >>>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >>>> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >>>> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >>>> person >>>> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >>>> seen >>>> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >>>> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >>>> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >>>> breath, >>>> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >>>> my >>>> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >>>> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be >>>> in >>>> >>>> my >>>> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >>>> >>>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >>>> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >>>> uttered >>>> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people >>>> and >>>> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp >>>> bullets >>>> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask >>>> us >>>> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a >>>> common >>>> one >>>> in the blindness community. >>>> >>>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>>> >>>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >>>> of >>>> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >>>> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >>>> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >>>> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>>> >>>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >>>> right >>>> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >>>> tend >>>> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >>>> HIV >>>> and aids as well. >>>> >>>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >>>> offended >>>> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >>>> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >>>> Upon >>>> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what >>>> HIV >>>> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>>> >>>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >>>> today, >>>> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >>>> acceptance, >>>> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >>>> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >>>> or >>>> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows >>>> because >>>> we >>>> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >>>> >>>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if >>>> it >>>> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >>>> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to >>>> be >>>> >>>> a >>>> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >>>> with >>>> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >>>> let >>>> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >>>> >>>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >>>> out >>>> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how >>>> to >>>> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. >>>> I >>>> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >>>> blissful >>>> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as >>>> well >>>> >>>> as >>>> me in the future. >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >>>> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >>>> with >>>> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >>>> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >>>> satisfy >>>> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of >>>> other >>>> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible >>>> immediately. >>>> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >>>> such >>>> as advocacy born from awareness. >>>> >>>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >>>> want >>>> to >>>> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. >>>> If >>>> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >>>> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to >>>> end >>>> these “offensive questions.” >>>> >>>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >>>> lives >>>> in >>>> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never >>>> lived >>>> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with >>>> each >>>> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >>>> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together >>>> in >>>> >>>> a >>>> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >>>> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could >>>> ever >>>> give. >>>> >>>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >>>> then >>>> >>>> we >>>> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >>>> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >>>> can, >>>> if >>>> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >>>> to >>>> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >>>> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the >>>> best >>>> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >>>> world, >>>> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result >>>> of >>>> answering offensive questions. >>>> >>>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >>>> writing >>>> archives */ >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my resume* >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Click here to see my writing archive >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Click here to view my website/ >>>> / * >>>> >>>> */ >>>> /* >>>> >>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>>> >>>> Facebook >>>> >>>> Twitter >>>> >>>> LinkedIn >>>> >>>> YouTube >>>> >>>> WordPress >>>> >>>> Blog RSS >>>> >>>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >>>> >>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >>>> Will >>>> I Cry? (play) >>>> >>>> WordPress >>>> >>>> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >>>> >>>> >>>> Read more >>>> | >>>> My blog >>>> >>>> Share on Facebook >>>> >>>>  Share on Twitter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Get this email app! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Designed with WiseStamp - >>>> Get >>>> yours >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Thu May 30 01:35:56 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 21:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D02AED29E4C9EF-2338-36F04@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered about this for so many times... Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the field carrying class flag. This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us she said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and can represent the class well." It was surprising rather than offensive... I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind student but I am not sure if I represent the class. My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and just personal struggles throughout high school until this year when he made a positive turn-around. It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for teens who may be struggling with life. You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life could give a positive outlook for others. I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my blindness. Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write in pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and "inspirational" If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind pole-vaulters in the list. Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming others' doubts? Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails by topics. -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Hi all, Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and desires. When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to work full-time while going to school, for example. Arielle On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: > Hi all, > > This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, I > am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most people > do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as > complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of > my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or > successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine > whether a compliment is truely desserved. > > I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. > Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a > daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. > However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. > > Just some thoughts, > Danielle > > On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind people >> should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for accomplishing >> ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a job, living >> independently), I do think that we need a greater-than-average level >> of resilience to successfully handle many of the challenges we face as >> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are nonetheless >> challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, and >> self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer of >> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness can >> be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the reality >> of our society, many blind people are not given the appropriate >> training and opportunities by default and do in fact need to overcome >> more obstacles in order to accomplish things in life that might >> otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the label of "amazing" >> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale probably >> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >> >> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general public, >> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I do >> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular basis >> so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a competent, >> capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so with >> strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me on being >> amazing many times, not because I agree with them but because I do not >> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, many >> sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as excessive >> helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though they do come >> across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of the personal >> opinion that we should educate as much as we are willing and able, but >> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I know >> we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite (albeit >> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >> aggressive and confrontational. >> >> Katie >> >> >> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people here >>> wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating with >>> honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, that this >>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was about >>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind person. >>> >>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president was >>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned people >>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that were >>> difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree online >>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl >>> who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I >>> felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major >>> with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people >>> who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, I've >>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants were >>> given to me. >>> >>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about resilence >>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, and >>> the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. I >>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it all >>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, >>> but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. Facing >>> the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>> >>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>> >>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing when >>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that >>>> anytime >>>> someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set which is >>>> unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond ordinary in that >>>> particular context, but rarely do I think they are amazing. While >>>> educating >>>> people and opening their minds is nice; that is something that everyone >>>> in >>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to >>>> assume >>>> that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing for a blind >>>> man." >>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>> moments >>>> so >>>> to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of them I don't. >>>> After >>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where it >>>> goes, >>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. Other >>>> times >>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. It >>>> is >>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a human >>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely nothing. >>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa >>>> Green >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would want to >>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe the >>>> school. >>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like everyone >>>> else. >>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into the >>>> music >>>> room and sit in my chair. >>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>> No relying on others. >>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>> . >>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>> But I won't. >>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made over >>>> me >>>> because of my blindness. >>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony they >>>> wanted >>>> to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as well as put a >>>> cap >>>> and >>>> gown on her. >>>> I said absolutely not! >>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>> That is what I did. >>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Melissa and Pj >>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>>> Green >>>> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells me I >>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it >>>> because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that >>>> compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind >>>> person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, even >>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being told >>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great >>>> perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I don't >>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life has >>>> been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel they >>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about me, >>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on >>>> blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know >>>> how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. just >>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an inspiration >>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled with >>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. When >>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I >>>> was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees >>>> and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not to >>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in our >>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me to >>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I >>>> blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I eventually >>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, but >>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or poetry >>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing was >>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued >>>> people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing before I >>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me out >>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to resent >>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that >>>> "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. But >>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one hand, >>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an >>>> amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held to >>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about my >>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the crowd >>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>> boys) instead. >>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" failed my >>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were some >>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like answering >>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to >>>> earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, I >>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a >>>> human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my algebra >>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class at >>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with my >>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't >>>> succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, >>>> ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, I >>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>> could to succeed in school. >>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as damaging >>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to >>>> figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced >>>> into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we >>>> have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and we >>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted folks >>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>> weaknesses. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >>> life." >>> John 3:16 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com Thu May 30 01:54:08 2013 From: trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com (Winona Brackett) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 21:54:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Online Courses Message-ID: Hello All, I have to take two credits of one foreign language in order to meet graduation requirements. Because of scheduling, I have to take at least the first credit of the foreign language online through Florida Virtual School. I'm enro lled in Latin I currently. I'm having trouble learning the language and all the different word endings. What is Spanish like? Which course do you think is more accessible with JAWS 14? If I continue with Latin, I will have to take Latin I and Latin II online. (The main reason why I wanted to try Latin is so I can improve my English vocabulary since most of the English language is from Latin roots.) My school doesn't offer Latin. If I took Spanish I online, I could take Spanish II at school. What are your thoughts? Winona From hope.paulos at gmail.com Thu May 30 02:06:46 2013 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 22:06:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Online Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would definitely do the Spanish. Eloquence works well in Spanish and I don't believe it has a Latin synthesizer. Spanish is also an easy language to learn. Sent from my iPhone On May 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Winona Brackett wrote: > Hello All, > > I have to take two credits of one foreign language in order to meet > graduation requirements. Because of scheduling, I have to take at > least the first credit of the foreign language online through Florida > Virtual School. I'm enro lled in Latin I currently. I'm having trouble > learning the language and all the different word endings. What is > Spanish like? Which course do you think is more accessible with JAWS > 14? > > If I continue with Latin, I will have to take Latin I and Latin II > online. (The main reason why I wanted to try Latin is so I can improve > my English vocabulary since most of the English language is from Latin > roots.) My school doesn't offer Latin. > > If I took Spanish I online, I could take Spanish II at school. > > What are your thoughts? > > > Winona > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Wed May 29 02:19:48 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 22:19:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <8D02AED29E4C9EF-2338-36F04@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D02AED29E4C9EF-2338-36F04@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000101ce5c12$ff013900$fd03ab00$@gmail.com> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for blindness is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little better than average. Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as long as you control the situation with your own personal power and not let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered about this for so many times... Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the field carrying class flag. This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us she said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and can represent the class well." It was surprising rather than offensive... I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind student but I am not sure if I represent the class. My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and just personal struggles throughout high school until this year when he made a positive turn-around. It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for teens who may be struggling with life. You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life could give a positive outlook for others. I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my blindness. Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write in pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and "inspirational" If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind pole-vaulters in the list. Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming others' doubts? Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails by topics. -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Hi all, Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and desires. When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to work full-time while going to school, for example. Arielle On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: > Hi all, > > This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, I > am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most people > do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as > complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of > my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or > successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine > whether a compliment is truely desserved. > > I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. > Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a > daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. > However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. > > Just some thoughts, > Danielle > > On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind people >> should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for accomplishing >> ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a job, living >> independently), I do think that we need a greater-than-average level >> of resilience to successfully handle many of the challenges we face as >> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are nonetheless >> challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, and >> self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer of >> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness can >> be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the reality >> of our society, many blind people are not given the appropriate >> training and opportunities by default and do in fact need to overcome >> more obstacles in order to accomplish things in life that might >> otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the label of "amazing" >> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale probably >> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >> >> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general public, >> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I do >> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular basis >> so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a competent, >> capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so with >> strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me on being >> amazing many times, not because I agree with them but because I do not >> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, many >> sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as excessive >> helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though they do come >> across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of the personal >> opinion that we should educate as much as we are willing and able, but >> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I know >> we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite (albeit >> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >> aggressive and confrontational. >> >> Katie >> >> >> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people here >>> wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating with >>> honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, that this >>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was about >>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind person. >>> >>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president was >>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned people >>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that were >>> difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree online >>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl >>> who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I >>> felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major >>> with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people >>> who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, I've >>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants were >>> given to me. >>> >>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about resilence >>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, and >>> the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. I >>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it all >>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, >>> but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. Facing >>> the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>> >>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>> >>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing when >>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that >>>> anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set >>>> which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond ordinary >>>> in that particular context, but rarely do I think they are amazing. >>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>> something that everyone >>>> in >>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to >>>> assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing for >>>> a blind >>>> man." >>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of >>>> them I don't. >>>> After >>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where it >>>> goes, >>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. Other >>>> times >>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. It >>>> is >>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a human >>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely nothing. >>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa >>>> Green >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would want to >>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe the >>>> school. >>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like everyone >>>> else. >>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into the >>>> music room and sit in my chair. >>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>> No relying on others. >>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>> . >>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>> But I won't. >>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made over >>>> me >>>> because of my blindness. >>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony they >>>> wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as well >>>> as put a >>>> cap >>>> and >>>> gown on her. >>>> I said absolutely not! >>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>> That is what I did. >>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Melissa and Pj >>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells me I >>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it >>>> because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that >>>> compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind >>>> person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, even >>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being told >>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great >>>> perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I don't >>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life has >>>> been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel they >>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about me, >>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on >>>> blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know >>>> how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. just >>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an inspiration >>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled with >>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. When >>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I >>>> was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees >>>> and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not to >>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in our >>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me to >>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I >>>> blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I eventually >>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, but >>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or poetry >>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing was >>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued >>>> people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing before I >>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me out >>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to resent >>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that >>>> "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. But >>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one hand, >>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an >>>> amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held to >>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about my >>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the crowd >>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>> boys) instead. >>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" failed my >>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were some >>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like answering >>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to >>>> earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, I >>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a >>>> human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my algebra >>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class at >>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with my >>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't >>>> succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, >>>> ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, I >>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>> could to succeed in school. >>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as damaging >>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to >>>> figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced >>>> into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we >>>> have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and we >>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted folks >>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>> weaknesses. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri >>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the >>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his >>> only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but >>> may have eternal life." >>> John 3:16 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu May 30 02:32:09 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 20:32:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <000101ce5c12$ff013900$fd03ab00$@gmail.com> References: <8D02AED29E4C9EF-2338-36F04@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com> <000101ce5c12$ff013900$fd03ab00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted athletes. Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille and canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. Arielle On 5/28/13, justin wrote: > Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your intelligence > and skill as a human, then that's great. > I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say that > having to use alternative techniques to compensate for blindness is > something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of accessibility > while doing the everyday things of life does mean that to function on the > same level of the sighted, we have to be a little better than average. > Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us like > we > are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked across a room > or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and degrading. Do your > thing; if you can help someone, then I got your back man. In certain > contexts, using your blindness along with your accomplishments can be a > model of inspiration for people. Just as long as you control the situation > with your own personal power and not let someone dictate where how your > blindness angle is emphasized. Tell them to just give you the ball and get > out of your way. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered about > this > for so many times... > Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. > Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the field > carrying class flag. > This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us she said > "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and can represent > the class well." > It was surprising rather than offensive... > I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind student > but I am not sure if I represent the class. > My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and just > personal struggles throughout high school until this year when he made a > positive turn-around. > It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. > Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. > It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not but I > chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for teens who may > be > struggling with life. > You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life could > give a positive outlook for others. > I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my > blindness. > Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind people for > being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. (I usually say > it's just my way of reading and writing as you write in pen) But there > could > be some things that are truly "amazing" and "inspirational" > If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind > pole-vaulters in the list. > Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming others' > doubts? > Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails by > topics. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > Hi all, > Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should have at > least asked your permission before he talked about you at the ceremony. I > have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and also by a man who was > receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose between blindness, kidney > failure and homelessness I would choose blindness any day, but I know that > it's not up to me to characterize those men's lives any more than they can > characterize mine. > > I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the > environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility > etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a personality > trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient than anyone else > does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to whatever situations they are > in. As blind people we are simply doing what we need to do in order to > survive and fulfill our goals and desires. > When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been challenges > I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were eclipsed by all the > help > and support I received from my parents (who both have advanced degrees), > from the scholarship I was awarded and the mentors I was assigned as part > of > that scholarship program, and from my professors and friends. I honestly do > not feel that earning my double major was difficult. And so I find it > insulting when people who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult > for me than for somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who > had to work full-time while going to school, for example. > > Arielle > > On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, I >> am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most people >> do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of >> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >> >> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >> >> Just some thoughts, >> Danielle >> >> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind people >>> should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for accomplishing >>> ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a job, living >>> independently), I do think that we need a greater-than-average level >>> of resilience to successfully handle many of the challenges we face > as >>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are nonetheless >>> challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, and >>> self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer > of >>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness can >>> be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the reality >>> of our society, many blind people are not given the appropriate >>> training and opportunities by default and do in fact need to overcome >>> more obstacles in order to accomplish things in life that might >>> otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the label of "amazing" >>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale > probably >>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>> >>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general > public, >>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I > do >>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular basis >>> so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a competent, >>> capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so with >>> strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me on being >>> amazing many times, not because I agree with them but because I do > not >>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, many >>> sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as excessive >>> helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though they do come >>> across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of the personal >>> opinion that we should educate as much as we are willing and able, > but >>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I know >>> we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite (albeit >>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>> aggressive and confrontational. >>> >>> Katie >>> >>> >>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people here >>>> wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating with >>>> honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, that > this >>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was > about >>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind > person. >>>> >>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president > was >>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned > people >>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that were >>>> difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree > online >>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl >>>> who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I >>>> felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major >>>> with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people >>>> who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, > I've >>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants were >>>> given to me. >>>> >>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about > resilence >>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, and >>>> the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. > I >>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it > all >>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, >>>> but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. Facing >>>> the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>> >>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>>> >>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing > when >>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that >>>>> anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set >>>>> which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond ordinary >>>>> in that particular context, but rarely do I think they are amazing. >>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>> something that > everyone >>>>> in >>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to >>>>> assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing for >>>>> a > blind >>>>> man." >>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of >>>>> them I > don't. >>>>> After >>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where > it >>>>> goes, >>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. > Other >>>>> times >>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. > It >>>>> is >>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a > human >>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely > nothing. >>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > melissa >>>>> Green >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would > want to >>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe the >>>>> school. >>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like > everyone >>>>> else. >>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into the >>>>> music room and sit in my chair. >>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>>> No relying on others. >>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>> . >>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>> But I won't. >>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made > over >>>>> me >>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony they >>>>> wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as well >>>>> as put > a >>>>> cap >>>>> and >>>>> gown on her. >>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>> That is what I did. >>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>>>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells > me I >>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it >>>>> because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that >>>>> compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind >>>>> person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, > even >>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being > told >>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have great >>>>> perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because I > don't >>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life has >>>>> been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel > they >>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about > me, >>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on >>>>> blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to know >>>>> how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. > just >>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an > inspiration >>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled > with >>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. > When >>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew I >>>>> was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling bees >>>>> and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably not > to >>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in > our >>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me > to >>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was I >>>>> blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I > eventually >>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, > but >>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or > poetry >>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing > was >>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that intrigued >>>>> people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my writing > before I >>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me > out >>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to > resent >>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, that >>>>> "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. > But >>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one > hand, >>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an >>>>> amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held > to >>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about > my >>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the > crowd >>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>> boys) instead. >>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" > failed my >>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were > some >>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like > answering >>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability to >>>>> earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious level, > I >>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a >>>>> human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my > algebra >>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class > at >>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with > my >>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't >>>>> succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, >>>>> ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, > I >>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as > damaging >>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to >>>>> figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced >>>>> into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we >>>>> have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and > we >>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted > folks >>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>> weaknesses. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Julie McG >>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri >>>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the >>>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his >>>> only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but >>>> may have eternal life." >>>> John 3:16 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Wed May 29 02:36:16 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 22:36:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: <8D02AED29E4C9EF-2338-36F04@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com> <000101ce5c12$ff013900$fd03ab00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000b01ce5c15$4b715430$e253fc90$@gmail.com> Agreed. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted athletes. Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille and canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. Arielle On 5/28/13, justin wrote: > Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your > intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. > I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say > that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for blindness > is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of > accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that > to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little better than average. > Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us > like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked > across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and > degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your > back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your > accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as > long as you control the situation with your own personal power and not > let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. > Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered > about this for so many times... > Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. > Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the > field carrying class flag. > This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us she > said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and can > represent the class well." > It was surprising rather than offensive... > I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind > student but I am not sure if I represent the class. > My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and just > personal struggles throughout high school until this year when he made > a positive turn-around. > It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. > Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. > It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not > but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for > teens who may be struggling with life. > You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life > could give a positive outlook for others. > I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my > blindness. > Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind > people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. > (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write in > pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and > "inspirational" > If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind > pole-vaulters in the list. > Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming others' > doubts? > Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails > by topics. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > Hi all, > Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should have > at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the > ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and also > by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose between > blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose blindness > any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize those men's > lives any more than they can characterize mine. > > I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the > environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility > etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a > personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient > than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to > whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing > what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and desires. > When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been > challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were > eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who > both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and > the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and > from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning my > double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people who > don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for > somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to work > full-time while going to school, for example. > > Arielle > > On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, I >> am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of >> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >> >> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >> >> Just some thoughts, >> Danielle >> >> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle many >>> of the challenges we face > as >>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are nonetheless >>> challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, and >>> self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer > of >>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the label of "amazing" >>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale > probably >>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>> >>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general > public, >>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I > do >>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me on >>> being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but because >>> I do > not >>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>> willing and able, > but >>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I know >>> we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite (albeit >>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>> aggressive and confrontational. >>> >>> Katie >>> >>> >>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>> that > this >>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was > about >>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind > person. >>>> >>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president > was >>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned > people >>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree > online >>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl >>>> who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I >>>> felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major >>>> with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people >>>> who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, > I've >>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>> were given to me. >>>> >>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about > resilence >>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. > I >>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it > all >>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, >>>> but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. >>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>> >>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>>> >>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing > when >>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that >>>>> anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set >>>>> which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond >>>>> ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I think they are amazing. >>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>> something that > everyone >>>>> in >>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to >>>>> assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing >>>>> for a > blind >>>>> man." >>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of >>>>> them I > don't. >>>>> After >>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where > it >>>>> goes, >>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. > Other >>>>> times >>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. > It >>>>> is >>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a > human >>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely > nothing. >>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > melissa >>>>> Green >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would > want to >>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>> the school. >>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like > everyone >>>>> else. >>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>>> No relying on others. >>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>> . >>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>> But I won't. >>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made > over >>>>> me >>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as >>>>> well as put > a >>>>> cap >>>>> and >>>>> gown on her. >>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>> That is what I did. >>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>>>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells > me I >>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it >>>>> because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that >>>>> compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind >>>>> person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, > even >>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being > told >>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because >>>>> I > don't >>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life has >>>>> been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel > they >>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about > me, >>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on >>>>> blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to >>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. > just >>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an > inspiration >>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled > with >>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. > When >>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew >>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably >>>>> not > to >>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in > our >>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me > to >>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was >>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I > eventually >>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, > but >>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or > poetry >>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing > was >>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>> writing > before I >>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me > out >>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to > resent >>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. > But >>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one > hand, >>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an >>>>> amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held > to >>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about > my >>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the > crowd >>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>> boys) instead. >>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" > failed my >>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were > some >>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like > answering >>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>> level, > I >>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a >>>>> human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my > algebra >>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class > at >>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with > my >>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't >>>>> succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, >>>>> ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, > I >>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as > damaging >>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to >>>>> figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced >>>>> into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we >>>>> have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and > we >>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted > folks >>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>> weaknesses. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. > com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. > com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Julie McG >>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes >>>> for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he >>>> gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not >>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>> John 3:16 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmai > l.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. > com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From aizenman at earthlink.net Thu May 30 02:34:31 2013 From: aizenman at earthlink.net (Frida Aizenman) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 19:34:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Online Courses References: Message-ID: <39F34FCAF22B4654B4867E6954C2B8BF@DDTM62C1> You can improve your English vocabulary since most of the English language is from Spanish roots also. Take the word pulmonary in English. You know that it has to do with the lungs, right? Well, the word for lung in Spanish is pulmón. Pulmonary, right? Besides Eloquence works very well in Spanish. Spanish is a beautiful language. Cordially, Frida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Online Courses >I would definitely do the Spanish. Eloquence works well in Spanish and I >don't believe it has a Latin synthesizer. Spanish is also an easy language >to learn. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Winona Brackett > wrote: > >> Hello All, >> >> I have to take two credits of one foreign language in order to meet >> graduation requirements. Because of scheduling, I have to take at >> least the first credit of the foreign language online through Florida >> Virtual School. I'm enro lled in Latin I currently. I'm having trouble >> learning the language and all the different word endings. What is >> Spanish like? Which course do you think is more accessible with JAWS >> 14? >> >> If I continue with Latin, I will have to take Latin I and Latin II >> online. (The main reason why I wanted to try Latin is so I can improve >> my English vocabulary since most of the English language is from Latin >> roots.) My school doesn't offer Latin. >> >> If I took Spanish I online, I could take Spanish II at school. >> >> What are your thoughts? >> >> >> Winona >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aizenman%40earthlink.net From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Wed May 29 03:18:44 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 23:18:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: <8D02AED29E4C9EF-2338-36F04@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com> <000101ce5c12$ff013900$fd03ab00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000e01ce5c1b$3a612340$af2369c0$@gmail.com> I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing despite learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. However, because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal as a blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put it down to an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill set is impressive, a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't see, so I have to do something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use the fact that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, but once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them together, wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing comments as possible; I hate those, even when I may have done something that could be considered amazing, probably because I have gotten it too often and it's gotten annoying. For example, I was somewhat annoyed in high school when I was presented with the heart award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He meant well, and I was not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think that he gave that to me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done an interview for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high school which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in college when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have been the state champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would have tried to leave the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would have been included. I would only use blindness to show the skills of adaptation which may be a moment of inspiration, a shot in the arm, or a spark for someone who needs it. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted athletes. Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille and canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. Arielle On 5/28/13, justin wrote: > Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your > intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. > I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say > that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for blindness > is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of > accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that > to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little better than average. > Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us > like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked > across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and > degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your > back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your > accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as > long as you control the situation with your own personal power and not > let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. > Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered > about this for so many times... > Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. > Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the > field carrying class flag. > This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us she > said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and can > represent the class well." > It was surprising rather than offensive... > I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind > student but I am not sure if I represent the class. > My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and just > personal struggles throughout high school until this year when he made > a positive turn-around. > It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. > Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. > It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not > but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for > teens who may be struggling with life. > You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life > could give a positive outlook for others. > I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my > blindness. > Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind > people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. > (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write in > pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and > "inspirational" > If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind > pole-vaulters in the list. > Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming others' > doubts? > Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails > by topics. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > Hi all, > Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should have > at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the > ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and also > by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose between > blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose blindness > any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize those men's > lives any more than they can characterize mine. > > I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the > environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility > etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a > personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient > than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to > whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing > what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and desires. > When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been > challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were > eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who > both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and > the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and > from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning my > double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people who > don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for > somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to work > full-time while going to school, for example. > > Arielle > > On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, I >> am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of >> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >> >> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >> >> Just some thoughts, >> Danielle >> >> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle many >>> of the challenges we face > as >>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are nonetheless >>> challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, and >>> self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer > of >>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the label of "amazing" >>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale > probably >>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>> >>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general > public, >>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I > do >>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me on >>> being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but because >>> I do > not >>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>> willing and able, > but >>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I know >>> we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite (albeit >>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>> aggressive and confrontational. >>> >>> Katie >>> >>> >>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>> that > this >>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was > about >>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind > person. >>>> >>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president > was >>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned > people >>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree > online >>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl >>>> who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I >>>> felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major >>>> with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people >>>> who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, > I've >>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>> were given to me. >>>> >>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about > resilence >>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. > I >>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it > all >>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, >>>> but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. >>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>> >>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>>> >>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing > when >>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that >>>>> anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set >>>>> which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond >>>>> ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I think they are amazing. >>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>> something that > everyone >>>>> in >>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to >>>>> assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing >>>>> for a > blind >>>>> man." >>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of >>>>> them I > don't. >>>>> After >>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where > it >>>>> goes, >>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. > Other >>>>> times >>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. > It >>>>> is >>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a > human >>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely > nothing. >>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > melissa >>>>> Green >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would > want to >>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>> the school. >>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like > everyone >>>>> else. >>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>>> No relying on others. >>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>> . >>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>> But I won't. >>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made > over >>>>> me >>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as >>>>> well as put > a >>>>> cap >>>>> and >>>>> gown on her. >>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>> That is what I did. >>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>>>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells > me I >>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it >>>>> because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that >>>>> compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind >>>>> person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, > even >>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being > told >>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because >>>>> I > don't >>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life has >>>>> been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel > they >>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about > me, >>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on >>>>> blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to >>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing vs. > just >>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an > inspiration >>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled > with >>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. > When >>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew >>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably >>>>> not > to >>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in > our >>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me > to >>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was >>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I > eventually >>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, > but >>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or > poetry >>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing > was >>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>> writing > before I >>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me > out >>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to > resent >>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same time. > But >>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one > hand, >>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an >>>>> amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held > to >>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about > my >>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the > crowd >>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>> boys) instead. >>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" > failed my >>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were > some >>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like > answering >>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>> level, > I >>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a >>>>> human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my > algebra >>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class > at >>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with > my >>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't >>>>> succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, >>>>> ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, > I >>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as > damaging >>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to >>>>> figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced >>>>> into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we >>>>> have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and > we >>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted > folks >>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>> weaknesses. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. > com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. > com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Julie McG >>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes >>>> for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he >>>> gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not >>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>> John 3:16 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmai > l.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. > com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Thu May 30 05:47:08 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 23:47:08 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions References: <51A04EC6.80307@gmail.com><005c01ce5b35$40a87820$c1f96860$@gmail.com> Message-ID: misty. Good for you. I also try to educate people about blindness and the use of dogs. Also I was offered a job anb but the lady kept saying supervision is needed to work with kids. Then she said, I need to contact the sate to see if we will lose our child care license by hiring you. Needless the say, she has been sending me jobs by e-mail that I obviously can't get to and has no public transportation. that changed a a couple of days ago. She actually called me and asked me if I would be interested in a job in the next town north of me. When I said yes, she said "oh its far from where you live and its not open yet. I rplied that I will continue to follow up with her and would love to interview like everyone else for the position. There is a thought that you have to be sighted to take are of children. thats why many parents have had their children taken away. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Misty Dawn Bradley" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Hi Melissa, I agree with you about not being rude, and also about having the dog and people thinking of it as social and an icebreaker, etc. I use my cane and don't have a dog, but I have a 5-year-old daughter that is with me when she is not in school, and people always tell her things like, "Be a good girl and help your mama out." Of course, I try to be polite and explain to them that I know the routes, and she is with me to be my daughter and not there to guide me. I had an interesting incident just this afternoon where I went to Walmart with my daughter and was waiting at the bus stop to go home, and there was a lady with her 12-year-old son waiting there also. My daughter has a harness that looks like a horse that I put on her so she will stay next to me and not run off, because she still doesn't always want to hold my hand when we are out on the street, in the store, or wherever we are. Well, the lady saw me with the backpack-looking safety strap on my daughter, and she told a fellow bus rider in a soft voice but one I could still hear, "Oh, she has to wear that harness because her mom is blind and she has to help her." I am guessing that the lady was comparing my daughter to a guide dog or something. I politely but quickly interjected that the safety strap is only to make sure that my daughter is safely beside me and doesn't run out into the street unexpectedly or that no one can just grab her and take off with her, etc. It is also used by sighted people, and I have even had sighted people ask me where I got it so they can use it with their small children to make sure they don't run off while they are out. After I said that, the lady thought about it and then she said to the fellow bus rider, "Oh yes, her mom must know where she is going, because she already knows that it is almost her stop." They were all surprised that I knew exactly where to get off without anyone telling me, because I am familiar with the route and all of the turns, etc. I get these comments about my daughter helping me, and they even tell her that she is a good pair of eyes for me, which irritates me sometimes, but I try to be polite anyway and explain that she doesn't have to help me, because I go out on my own a lot anyway, even when she is in school, without help. I hate it when people treat my daughter as if she is my personal assistant or servant or something, and I don't want my daughter to think she has to be that for me, especially when I am perfectly capable of doing things independently. Also, it is not her responsibility to help me, especially since she is still young. I don't think any sighted person would think of their kids that way, and they surely wouldn't want people treating their kids like personal assistants or servants, and I am sure that if any sighted person observing another sighted person treating their children in such a manner, they would be horrified. However, since I am blind, they seem to think it is OK for my daughter to have to be my personal helper/servant/pair of eyes. People come up with the strangest ideas and logic sometimes when it comes to blindness, and I am hoping that the encounter with me today taught this lady something about blind people that is positive instead of negative. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "melissa Green" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > You are so right arielle. > I don't know how to respond either to the amazing and other comments. > Like you I try to educate them, or say something like its what I have to > do > to be successful my in life. > I would say that not to be rude is also very helpful. > I can't count the times that people have said to me that I treat them with > respect and thank me for not being rude. > then they tell me about a blind person that was rude and nasty to them. > Here is something that I hav discovered. > When I was using my cane people never said good cane!, taking care of your > mama. > With a dog, I get that a lot. > Also, people expect the dog to be an ixebreaker. > She isn't that for me at all. > I know blind people who do say that their dogs made their social lives. > I am not one of those people. > I don't like it when people aproach me because now I have a dog, and I > don't > like it when people talk to the dog and not to me. > Many people would say that I am strange for having these reactions. > Sincerely, > Melissa and Pj > "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson > facebook Melissa R Green > Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 > skype: lissa5674 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 6:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > > > Agreed. Unfortunately there are times when people ask questions out of > doubt or sarcasm rather than out of true curiosity. They already > believe we can't do something and answering their question about how > we do it doesn't persuade them to give us a job, or a second date, or > whatever. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a question is asked out of > curiosity or if the questioner has already made up his/her mind. > However, I do think we should give folks the benefit of the doubt and > at least attempt to educate them the best we can. We don't want > well-intentioned folks to feel they have to bottle their questions > inside and never learn what they want to learn about blindness. I also > agree that if a question crosses personal boundaries, such as a > question about how we handle toilet matters, then it should be > addressed more assertively. I have luckily not been asked any > questions that I found to be rude or invasive, but I know others have > at times. > I don't mind answering (appropriate) questions at all, but I am always > stumped when some stranger tells me I am > amazing/brave/inspiring/courageous. I can never figure out how to > respond in such a way that acknowledges their goodwill but also > attempts to educate them about the fact I am not very amazing or brave > just because I can walk somewhere by myself. I could just say "thank > you" and move on, but I don't like doing that because I feel like by > thanking them I am validating what they think about blind people being > amazing for doing the simplest things. Sometimes I find myself just > ignoring the comment because I don't know what to say. Other times I > will attempt to briefly explain the relevant techniques that I use, if > time allows and if they seem interested. How do you handle this? > > Arielle > > On 5/27/13, Joe wrote: >> Damn, this stupid JAWS thing isn't letting me respond to sender. LOL Just >> to >> chime in that I thought this was an excellent and well-written post. I'm >> sure you're a superb journalist.--Joe >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The weird >> writer >> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:40 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite each >> other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate right, a >> woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the baseball game she >> missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men and women pass us >> making >> their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in the kitchen behind me, and >> my >> date’s cologne, masked over with deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I >> gaze towards his ebony accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our >> laughter >> dicing holes in conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm >> sure, >> stare at this interracial gay couple. >> >> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a teacher. >> With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like rain, he >> asks >> me a very important question. >> >> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >> >> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of creeping >> towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it were a >> chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive sighted >> person >> away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize that he's never >> seen >> adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille display, and he's >> certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a computer with a screen >> reader before. He's not in my world and he never was. Taking a deep >> breath, >> I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm blind, all with a huge smile on >> my >> face. The reason I choose to answer all his questions, and many others, >> instead of following my gut instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in >> my >> world, but I know he can be if I just teach him. >> >> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >> uttered >> without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted people and >> their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like sharp bullets >> that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted people who ask us >> how we type on a computer. It's an angry question that's become a common >> one >> in the blindness community. >> >> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >> >> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted point >> of >> view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness ways or >> technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows everything, >> especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t know better. >> Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >> >> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking the >> right >> doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled community who >> tend >> to get angry when they're asked to educate, this applies to people with >> HIV >> and aids as well. >> >> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >> offended >> when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they exchange >> saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed off, hurt. >> Upon >> further investigation, I learned that his date didn't even know what HIV >> did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >> >> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >> today, >> the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >> acceptance, >> even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV community. In >> today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a good friendship >> or >> relationship because of “offensive questions.” That divide grows because >> we >> are easily offended at the questions we asked ourselves at one point. >> >> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered if it >> would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field reporting. >> I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am I going to be >> a >> journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured out the answers >> with >> trial and error and learning from my own past mistakes. If I would have >> let >> my own question offend me then I wouldn't have figured out the answer. >> >> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find out >> that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now how to >> better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an answer. I >> couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, then how >> blissful >> would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help someone else as well >> as >> me in the future. >> >> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to a >> question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >> with >> their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and soon, >> acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't just >> satisfy >> curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are a lot of other >> positive things behind that door even if they’re not visible immediately. >> Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and others are far off, >> such >> as advocacy born from awareness. >> >> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t want >> to >> divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a computer. If >> education breeds positive results then people who live in different >> conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the only way to end >> these “offensive questions.” >> >> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date lives >> in >> an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've never lived >> through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, and with each >> answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re together. >> With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming together in >> a >> way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very long time. >> He understands me now and that's the most valuable education I could ever >> give. >> >> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice then >> we >> can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we can, >> if >> asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open wide enough >> to >> let all of us through to a better world, a world where we all know each >> other, stand for one another, and unite for equality and embrace the best >> teacher of all, differences. That would make a beautifully educated >> world, >> one where I’d be happy to say that this positive change was the result of >> answering offensive questions. >> >> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >> writing >> archives */ >> >> *Click here to view my resume* >> >> >> * >> * >> >> *Click here to see my writing archive >> * >> >> *Click here to view my website/ >> / * >> >> */ >> /* >> >> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >> >> Facebook >> >> Twitter >> >> LinkedIn >> >> YouTube >> >> WordPress >> >> Blog RSS >> >> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >> >> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long >> Will >> I Cry? (play) >> >> WordPress >> >> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & other news >> >> >> Read more >> | >> My blog >> >> Share on Facebook >> >>  Share on Twitter >> >> >> >> Get this email app! >> >> >> >> Designed with WiseStamp - >> Get >> yours >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Thu May 30 06:06:06 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 00:06:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Attending CCB References: <563BC7A3D27D4A4FB8B1C9B946AFB336@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: <5CCD48362407428191B68E00201F6BAC@HP30910210001> Misty. I am a graduate of the CCb. I went to a state program first and I didn't get much out of it at all. I would call the center and ask the questions that are relevant to you. I usually advise people that their program is what you make it. I always feel a little badly for those people who go through the ccb program and spend 9 months there and come out with a piece of paper. IMo that is a waste of time and money. They also have a college program starting in the fall. Don't know much about it but you also get training related to college and independence training. As well as to take a college class. I wish they had that option when I was in the center. Keep us posted and good luck. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Misty Dawn Bradley" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Cc: "NFB Talk Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:43 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Attending CCB Hi all, Have any of you attended the Colorado Center for the Blind, and how were your experiences there? I am considering attending next year after I finish my associates degree but am researching to find out if it is the best place for me. I have lived on my own for about 6 years now and can travel and use public transportation, but I probably could use some improvement in some areas and also would like to improve job and career skills. Do you think the center is mainly for those that are newly on their own or just become blind, or do you think that someone that has been blind from birth and on their own for some time could also benefit from attending CCB? I attended a center in a different state that was not an NFB center, but I felt that it was not the right place for me and did not complete my term there. Also, if you have children, can you still live in the center's apartments, or do you have to just be a day student and live outside of the center's housing? I am wondering, because I am a single mother of a 5-year-old, so I would have to figure out how that is done as far as housing. I would also have child care worked out in advance, so that wouldn't be an issue during the day while I am in classes at the center, but I definitely need to find out about living in the center's apartments with a child. Also, I am out-of-state, and I am wondering how people here have convinced their state's vocational rehab to help them attend the center? I have not brought it up with my state's vocational rehab yet because I am still researching about the center and the Denver Area in general. If I plan to attend during the summer or fall of next year, how soon should I bring it up with Vocational Rehab here in North Carolina? Thank you, Misty _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Thu May 30 06:06:37 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 00:06:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] offensive questions References: <0192AF67-EC75-48B5-A1AD-64B8281A5AF5@gmail.com><8D0293BBFADB8C6-D24-26712@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <29DBA4EA689447BD86214D4CE9EC2331@HP30910210001> I would have left too. that is just horrible. Sincerely, Melissa and Pj "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 skype: lissa5674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Misty Dawn Bradley" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions Desiree, I agree with you. I can understand if the questions are not obvious, such as how a blind person uses a computer or even how we travel, but I get crazy questions like you have mentioned. The ones I get a lot are: "How do you cook?" "How do you clean?" "Who helps you around the house? You don't have ANYONE helping you?" Also, I notice that if I answer the questions with what I actually do and that I don't have help, that person acts surprised and acts like it is such a travesty that I live alone with my young daughter and have no help or anyone doing everything for me, even so I have been on my own for about 7 years now. When I explain that I do cook on my own, the person responds very surprised and tells me, "Be careful, be careful when you cook!" I had this experience just yesterday, and I found that my explanations got me nowhere and just made them even more surprised and afraid I guess, and it made me feel very frustrated, as if I was an invalid who needed constant, around-the-clock care or something. I was actually out yesterday, and after all of the questions this person asked me, the person proceeded to not allow me to do anything for myself while there, even so I frequent that particular place at least once weekly and know how to get around it using my cane. This person followed me absolutely everywhere and kept grabbing onto me and giving me unnecessary directions, even though I explained to her that I knew the area and didn't need help, and the way she spoke to me was as if I were a small child. I ended up leaving to go home early before everyone else because I got fed up with the way I was being treated. I couldn't even stand up out of my seat without being asked, "Where are you going?" and being told to sit back down and that they would do whatever it was that I was trying to do for me. Anyway, I hope I didn't digress from the topic at hand, but this just goes to show that some people don't want to be educated about what blind people can do and seem to want to contain the blind person into a box. I do find that there are some that are genuinely curious and really want to be educated, but some, like the person I mentioned above, don't pay attention to explanations of how you do things as a blind person or even think that you can do things for yourself. I find this especially when dealing with people, like this person above, from countries and cultures where blind people are viewed as less or that they are not able to do anything for themselves without someone doing everything for them. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions > Hi, > I agree with what has been said here so far. Sighted people often > don't know how they would do something if they were blind. to them, > sight is 95% of their existance. I don't get offended by questions > such as how I use a computer, or how I travel independently. Those > kind of questions make sense, once you put yourself in their shoes. > For the average, nondisabled person, any kind of disability is > paralyzingly frightening. It's better to ease their minds, which will, > hopefully, help them to understand what's possible for a blind person > to accomplish. If you remove the fear from a situation, it allows for > more clear thinking. what I have little tolerance for are the truly > ignorant questions, like how do you eat when You can't see? Or how do > you go to the bathroom? Now, come on. the average sighted person knows > that they're not watching their mouths while they eat, or watching > behind them after they take care of their business. Those kind of > questions are idiotic, and should be dealt with accordingly. Besides, > I don't think a sighted person would dare ask just any random stranger > those questions, regardless of what they felt the person's abilities > and limits were. How is it all right for people to cross those > boundaries just because a person is blind? I feel violated when a > perfect stranger asks me questions like that out of the blue. > > On 5/27/13, Miso Kwak wrote: >> I get similar questions like "If you are blind how do you march in a >> marching band?" "How do you use Facebook?" >> I have never thought of them as offensive thought because I would be >> asking the same thing if I were in the shoes of those who ask me such >> questions. >> I think it's important that we have an open mind and be equipped to >> explain and share. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anna Givens >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] offensive questions >> >> I totally agree! And as a formerly "sighted" person I will say that >> people are afraid to ask questions, because they are afraid to offend. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 25, 2013, at 1:40 AM, The weird writer >> wrote: >> >>> The restaurant bustles with activity as my date and I sit opposite >> each other, talking about ourselves and what we do. To my immediate >> right, a woman is talking to her mom on her cell phone about the >> baseball game she missed. Different smells bounce off my nose as men >> and women pass us making their way to their tables. Dishes clatter in >> the kitchen behind me, and my date’s cologne, masked over with >> deodorant, sprays my sense of smell as I gaze towards his ebony >> accented voice. We’re chatting jovially, our laughter dicing holes in >> conversations around us, making people stop, and, I'm sure, stare at >> this interracial gay couple. >>> >>> When the dishes come, we get into the topic of careers. He's a >> teacher. With a mouth full, and hesitation dotting his syllables like >> rain, he asks me a very important question. >>> >>> “If you’re blind, how can you be a journalist?” >>> >>> Instantly the talons rise, and my fingers toy with the idea of >> creeping towards his throat. A dozen retorts bang into my head as if it >> were a chamber full of bullets, ready to blast this rude insensitive >> sighted person away. After a split second however, I suddenly realize >> that he's never seen adaptive technology, and he's never seen a Braille >> display, and he's certainly never seen a victor reader stream or a >> computer with a screen reader before. He's not in my world and he never >> was. Taking a deep breath, I explain how I'm a journalist when I'm >> blind, all with a huge smile on my face. The reason I choose to answer >> all his questions, and many others, instead of following my gut >> instinct to be sarcastic is, he may not be in my world, but I know he >> can be if I just teach him. >>> >>> Whenever I hang around blind people and we make jokes about speech >> synthesizers that sighted people wouldn't understand a sentence is >> uttered without fail. Sooner or later, we get to talking about sighted >> people and their lack of blindness knowledge. The words fly at me like >> sharp bullets that are not meant for me. They’re angry at the sighted >> people who ask us how we type on a computer. It's an angry question >> that's become a common one in the blindness community. >>> >>> “They should know better. Why are they so stupid?” >>> >>> When that's uttered, I immediately see things through the sighted >> point of view. The truth is, they won’t be an expert about blindness >> ways or technology. They shouldn’t know better because no one knows >> everything, especially about a different way of living. They shouldn’t >> know better. Instead, we have to get angry less, and educate more. >>> >>> Education is the key of knowledge that will turn itself, unlocking >> the right doors if the right direction is given. Among the disabled >> community who tend to get angry when they're asked to educate, this >> applies to people with HIV and aids as well. >>> >>> I've seen countless instances where someone with HIV or AIDS gets >> offended when a potential partner asks him if he will contract if they >> exchange saliva. The contracted person became offended, and stormed >> off, hurt. Upon further investigation, I learned that his date didn't >> even know what HIV did. He didn't even know that it didn't have a cure. >>> >>> A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but it's also a divider. Even >> today, the biggest hurtle that we all have to overcome is inclusion and >> acceptance, even among the gay community, disabled community, and HIV >> community. In today's day and age, just simple curiosity could ruin a >> good friendship or relationship because of “offensive questions.” That >> divide grows because we are easily offended at the questions we asked >> ourselves at one point. >>> >>> When I was learning the bus route for my daily commutes, I wondered >> if it would even work, me having to travel on the bus for field >> reporting. I've asked the same question as my restaurant date. “How am >> I going to be a journalist?” with patience, and persistence, I figured >> out the answers with trial and error and learning from my own past >> mistakes. If I would have let my own question offend me then I wouldn't >> have figured out the answer. >>> >>> I don't have HIV but I had to ask the above question in order to find >> out that you can't get HIV from a small exchange of saliva. I know now >> how to better do my job as a blind journalist because I had to find an >> answer. I couldn't let those two questions go unanswered. If I did, >> then how blissful would I be, ignorant about knowledge that would help >> someone else as well as me in the future. >>> >>> I don't think anyone should remain in the dark if I have an answer to >> a question. Answers, with all their simplicity sprinkle awareness along >> with their validity. Not far behind awareness comes understanding, and >> soon, acceptance. An answer to a seemingly offensive question doesn't >> just satisfy curiosity but it opens up a door to understand. There are >> a lot of other positive things behind that door even if they’re not >> visible immediately. Some effects are immediate, such as inclusion, and >> others are far off, such as advocacy born from awareness. >>> >>> When I look around and see a world that's divided as it is, I don’t >> want to divide it even more just because someone asks me how I use a >> computer. If education breeds positive results then people who live in >> different conditions should educate others how they do it. it's the >> only way to end these “offensive questions.” >>> >>> The goal of inclusion is to do just that, include. My sighted date >> lives in an ethnic world I'll never completely understand because I've >> never lived through the discriminatory history but I can ask questions, >> and with each answer, I'm no longer on the outside anymore. We’re >> together. With every answer I give about my adaptive life, we’re coming >> together in a way that offended people won’t be able to do for a very >> long time. He understands me now and that's the most valuable education >> I could ever give. >>> >>> If people really want to have us unite to stand for a positive voice >> then we can't widen the distance because we’re offended at questions. >> Instead, we should open our world to people and share as much as we >> can, if asked. If we keep doing that I know that the door will open >> wide enough to let all of us through to a better world, a world where >> we all know each other, stand for one another, and unite for equality >> and embrace the best teacher of all, differences. That would make a >> beautifully educated world, one where I’d be happy to say that this >> positive change was the result of answering offensive questions. >>> >>> /*See below for resume, writing links, social media links, and other >> writing archives >>> */ >>> >>> *Click here to view my resume* >>> >> > ettresume%3Fsubfrom%3Dt> >>> >>> * >>> >> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>> >>> *Click here to see my writing archive >> > t%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>* >>> >>> *Click here to view my website/ >>> / >> * >>> >>> */ >>> /* >>> >>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ * >>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 * >>> >>> Facebook >> > kingett> Twitter >> > ter> LinkedIn >> > ngettr> YouTube >> > ingettspeaks> WordPress >> > s.com%2F> Blog RSS >> > om%2Ffeed%2F> >>> My latest comedy review: ‘She Kills Monsters’: A Fun Game of Chance >> > ills-monsters-a-fun-game-of-chanceshe-kills-monsters-theater-steppenwolf- >> theater-company-play-comedy-chicago%2F> >>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How >> Long Will I Cry? (play) >> > com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play% >> 2F> >>> WordPress >> > s.com%2F> My latest post in my blog:Just in case you missed it & >> other news >> > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F> >>> Read more >> > s.com%2F2013%2F05%2F25%2Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%2F>| My >> blog >> > s.com%2F> >>> Share on Facebook >> > php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252 >> F05%252F25%252Fjust-in-case-you-missed-it-other-news%252F>  Share on >> Twitter >> > eet%3Ftext%3DJust%2520in%2520case%2520you%2520missed%2520it%2520%2526%252 >> 0other%2520news%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29> >>> >>> Get this email app! >> > Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwor >> dpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps> >>> >> > ngettr> >>> Designed with WiseStamp - >> > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >> 10>Get yours >> > ding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed0c4ca423%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1369460407891%26promo%3D10 >> %26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_ >> source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_ >> 10> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From leyeshprintse at ymail.com Thu May 30 09:20:44 2013 From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:20:44 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] VoiceOver and Adobe Connect Message-ID: <7736E29C-443B-4BD8-830E-F55BB6BF3629@ymail.com> BS"D Hello, I wonder if Adobe Connect is accessible with VoiceOver on a MacBook or iPad? I tried to use it this morning on my MacBook but I couldn't navigate it. My university use it and right now, I only have my MacBook because Jaws crashed my PC. I would be very happy if I can get it to work, I want to only use my MacBook since I've so many problems with Jaws. Kind regards, Leye-Shprintse Courriel : leyeshprintseˆymail'com Journal : http://leyeshprintse.com Facebook : http://faceboo.com/leyeshprintse Twitter : http://twitter.com/leyeshprintse Envoyé de mon iPad From dburke at cocenter.org Thu May 30 13:11:53 2013 From: dburke at cocenter.org (Dan Burke) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 07:11:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Epub books on the VictorReader Stream? In-Reply-To: <002701ce5cae$f4bf0f70$de3d2e50$@cocenter.org> References: <002701ce5cae$f4bf0f70$de3d2e50$@cocenter.org> Message-ID: ... possibly of further interest ... about 5 days ago, DAISY posted RT @mEnablingSummit: Summit Evening Session June 6 / Studio E: E-Book Readers & e-Pub for Mobile Platforms for Users of All Abilities http://t.co/Ck2MiRAXVn On 5/29/13, Dan Burke wrote: > Epub can be read on the original Victor Stream, but only if the $50 > softpack > has been installed. You can find out by using the Info key (Zero); it will > say "softpack" if it's installed. > > If you have the softpack, you put the epub in the $VRDTB folder, the same > place you put Bookshare and BARD books. > > If you have an iPhone, you can read epub with a number of apps, including > Nook, iBooks, and possibly Blio. > > There used to be an epub reader add-in for Firefox, but I don't know if it > is current right now. Chrome may have epub capability as well. > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:32 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Epub books on the VictorReader Stream? > > Hi guys, > Can epub books be read on the VictorReader Stream? If so, what folder > do I put it in and how do I put it there? I have an epub book called > "The Behaviour Book" about behavior in the 19th century, and I want to > be able to read it on my Stream. If it can't be read on the Stream, > how do I read it? Thank you for any help, and I remain > Yours, > Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org > > From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Thu May 30 13:25:43 2013 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 09:25:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Online Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <936344F8-3DC0-49D1-BEE8-0C69BD6F4B6D@aol.com> Jaws has a built in synthesizer for Spanish but, I can see why you want to take Latin. I would take Spanish only because of the fact that you must take the class on line. I know a jaws user who took Latin for three years but, I am pretty sure they used braille. I can ask them and get back to you ASAP if you would like. Best, Bridget Sent from my iPad On May 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Winona Brackett wrote: > Hello All, > > I have to take two credits of one foreign language in order to meet > graduation requirements. Because of scheduling, I have to take at > least the first credit of the foreign language online through Florida > Virtual School. I'm enro lled in Latin I currently. I'm having trouble > learning the language and all the different word endings. What is > Spanish like? Which course do you think is more accessible with JAWS > 14? > > If I continue with Latin, I will have to take Latin I and Latin II > online. (The main reason why I wanted to try Latin is so I can improve > my English vocabulary since most of the English language is from Latin > roots.) My school doesn't offer Latin. > > If I took Spanish I online, I could take Spanish II at school. > > What are your thoughts? > > > Winona > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From kaybaycar at gmail.com Thu May 30 15:04:28 2013 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:04:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <000e01ce5c1b$3a612340$af2369c0$@gmail.com> References: <8D02AED29E4C9EF-2338-36F04@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com> <000101ce5c12$ff013900$fd03ab00$@gmail.com> <000e01ce5c1b$3a612340$af2369c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I received an email a few days before the ceremony saying that the president wanted to identify some of the honors students in her speech. I sincerely thought that was the end of it, and I said yes because I knew my parents would be happy. I agree with you Arielle. Resilience isn't a personality trait we possess. We choose to be resilient--and this applies to sighted people as well. The difference in our case is that it seems more obvious. I think we display this form of resilience when we choose to answer random questions from strangers when we would rather be minding our own business. It is educating. I don't think that this makes us special or amazing though. Most of us are used to educating people and dealing with their ignorance. It's just something we do. I am torn about the idea that blind people have to work twice as hard. I'm not denying that it is true, but do we really want our blind children thinking that they need to work twice as hard to get anything accomplished? Maybe the answer is yes. But I'm not convinced. On 5/28/13, justin wrote: > I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing despite > learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. However, > because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal as a > blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put it down to > an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill set is impressive, > a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't see, so I have to do > something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use the > fact > that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, but > once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them together, > wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing comments as > possible; > I hate those, even when I may have done something that could be considered > amazing, probably because I have gotten it too often and it's gotten > annoying. For example, I was somewhat annoyed in high school when I was > presented with the heart award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He > meant well, and I was not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think that > he gave that to me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done an > interview for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high > school which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my > blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in college > when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have been the state > champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would have tried to > leave > the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would have been included. I would > only use blindness to show the skills of adaptation which may be a moment > of > inspiration, a shot in the arm, or a spark for someone who needs it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted athletes. > Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille and > canes > to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a sport is > impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. > > Arielle > > On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your >> intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. >> I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say >> that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for blindness >> is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of >> accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that >> to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little > better than average. >> Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us >> like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked >> across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and >> degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your >> back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your >> accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as >> long as you control the situation with your own personal power and not >> let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. >> Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak >> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered >> about this for so many times... >> Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. >> Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the >> field carrying class flag. >> This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us she >> said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and can >> represent the class well." >> It was surprising rather than offensive... >> I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind >> student but I am not sure if I represent the class. >> My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and just >> personal struggles throughout high school until this year when he made >> a positive turn-around. >> It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. >> Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. >> It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not >> but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for >> teens who may be struggling with life. >> You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life >> could give a positive outlook for others. >> I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my >> blindness. >> Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind >> people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. >> (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write in >> pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and >> "inspirational" >> If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind >> pole-vaulters in the list. >> Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming >> others' >> doubts? >> Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails >> by topics. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> Hi all, >> Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should have >> at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the >> ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and also >> by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose between >> blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose blindness >> any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize those men's >> lives any more than they can characterize mine. >> >> I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the >> environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility >> etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a >> personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient >> than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to >> whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing >> what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and desires. >> When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been >> challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were >> eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who >> both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and >> the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and >> from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning my >> double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people who >> don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for >> somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to work >> full-time while going to school, for example. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, I >>> am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >>> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >>> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of >>> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >>> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >>> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >>> >>> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >>> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >>> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >>> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >>> >>> Just some thoughts, >>> Danielle >>> >>> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle many >>>> of the challenges we face >> as >>>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >>>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are nonetheless >>>> challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, and >>>> self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >>>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer >> of >>>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the label > of "amazing" >>>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale >> probably >>>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >>>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>>> >>>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general >> public, >>>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I >> do >>>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me on >>>> being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but because >>>> I do >> not >>>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>>> willing and able, >> but >>>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I know >>>> we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite (albeit >>>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>>> aggressive and confrontational. >>>> >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>>> that >> this >>>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was >> about >>>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind >> person. >>>>> >>>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president >> was >>>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned >> people >>>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree >> online >>>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl >>>>> who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I >>>>> felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major >>>>> with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people >>>>> who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, >> I've >>>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>>> were given to me. >>>>> >>>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about >> resilence >>>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. >> I >>>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it >> all >>>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, >>>>> but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. >>>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>>> >>>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>>>> >>>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing >> when >>>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that >>>>>> anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set >>>>>> which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond >>>>>> ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I think they are > amazing. >>>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>>> something that >> everyone >>>>>> in >>>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to >>>>>> assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing >>>>>> for a >> blind >>>>>> man." >>>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of >>>>>> them I >> don't. >>>>>> After >>>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where >> it >>>>>> goes, >>>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. >> Other >>>>>> times >>>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. >> It >>>>>> is >>>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a >> human >>>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely >> nothing. >>>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> melissa >>>>>> Green >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would >> want to >>>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>>> the school. >>>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like >> everyone >>>>>> else. >>>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>>>> No relying on others. >>>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>>> . >>>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>>> But I won't. >>>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made >> over >>>>>> me >>>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as >>>>>> well as put >> a >>>>>> cap >>>>>> and >>>>>> gown on her. >>>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>>> That is what I did. >>>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>>>>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells >> me I >>>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it >>>>>> because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that >>>>>> compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind >>>>>> person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, >> even >>>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being >> told >>>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because >>>>>> I >> don't >>>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life has >>>>>> been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel >> they >>>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about >> me, >>>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on >>>>>> blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to >>>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing >>>>>> vs. >> just >>>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an >> inspiration >>>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled >> with >>>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. >> When >>>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew >>>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably >>>>>> not >> to >>>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in >> our >>>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me >> to >>>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was >>>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I >> eventually >>>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, >> but >>>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or >> poetry >>>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing >> was >>>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>>> writing >> before I >>>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me >> out >>>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to >> resent >>>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same >>>>>> time. >> But >>>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one >> hand, >>>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an >>>>>> amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held >> to >>>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about >> my >>>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the >> crowd >>>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>>> boys) instead. >>>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" >> failed my >>>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were >> some >>>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like >> answering >>>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>>> level, >> I >>>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a >>>>>> human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my >> algebra >>>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class >> at >>>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with >> my >>>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't >>>>>> succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, >>>>>> ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, >> I >>>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as >> damaging >>>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to >>>>>> figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced >>>>>> into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we >>>>>> have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and >> we >>>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted >> folks >>>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>>> weaknesses. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. >> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >> com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Julie McG >>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes >>>>> for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he >>>>> gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not >>>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>>> John 3:16 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmai >> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. >> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From mistydbradley at gmail.com Thu May 30 15:10:07 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:10:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Online Courses References: <936344F8-3DC0-49D1-BEE8-0C69BD6F4B6D@aol.com> Message-ID: <718AD379E5E348E29C957B3937ECF548@acerd37f251f21> I took Spanish online also this past semester, and it went well except for the fact that the instructor used My Spanish Lab, which is not very accessible with JAWS. Otherwise, all of the other websites and course materials worked very well with JAWS. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridget Walker" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Online Courses > Jaws has a built in synthesizer for Spanish but, I can see why you want to > take Latin. I would take Spanish only because of the fact that you must > take the class on line. I know a jaws user who took Latin for three years > but, I am pretty sure they used braille. I can ask them and get back to > you ASAP if you would like. > > Best, > > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Winona Brackett > wrote: > >> Hello All, >> >> I have to take two credits of one foreign language in order to meet >> graduation requirements. Because of scheduling, I have to take at >> least the first credit of the foreign language online through Florida >> Virtual School. I'm enro lled in Latin I currently. I'm having trouble >> learning the language and all the different word endings. What is >> Spanish like? Which course do you think is more accessible with JAWS >> 14? >> >> If I continue with Latin, I will have to take Latin I and Latin II >> online. (The main reason why I wanted to try Latin is so I can improve >> my English vocabulary since most of the English language is from Latin >> roots.) My school doesn't offer Latin. >> >> If I took Spanish I online, I could take Spanish II at school. >> >> What are your thoughts? >> >> >> Winona >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Wed May 29 15:12:56 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 11:12:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: <8D02AED29E4C9EF-2338-36F04@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com> <000101ce5c12$ff013900$fd03ab00$@gmail.com> <000e01ce5c1b$3a612340$af2369c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't say it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of work ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is what it is. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Hi all, I received an email a few days before the ceremony saying that the president wanted to identify some of the honors students in her speech. I sincerely thought that was the end of it, and I said yes because I knew my parents would be happy. I agree with you Arielle. Resilience isn't a personality trait we possess. We choose to be resilient--and this applies to sighted people as well. The difference in our case is that it seems more obvious. I think we display this form of resilience when we choose to answer random questions from strangers when we would rather be minding our own business. It is educating. I don't think that this makes us special or amazing though. Most of us are used to educating people and dealing with their ignorance. It's just something we do. I am torn about the idea that blind people have to work twice as hard. I'm not denying that it is true, but do we really want our blind children thinking that they need to work twice as hard to get anything accomplished? Maybe the answer is yes. But I'm not convinced. On 5/28/13, justin wrote: > I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing despite > learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. However, > because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal > as a blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put > it down to an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill > set is impressive, a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't see, so I have to do > something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use the > fact > that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, > but once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them > together, wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing > comments as possible; I hate those, even when I may have done > something that could be considered amazing, probably because I have > gotten it too often and it's gotten annoying. For example, I was > somewhat annoyed in high school when I was presented with the heart > award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He meant well, and I was > not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think that he gave that to > me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done an interview > for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high school > which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my > blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in > college when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have been > the state champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would > have tried to leave the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would > have been included. I would only use blindness to show the skills of > adaptation which may be a moment of inspiration, a shot in the arm, or > a spark for someone who needs it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted athletes. > Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille and > canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a > sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. > > Arielle > > On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your >> intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. >> I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say >> that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for blindness >> is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of >> accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that >> to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little > better than average. >> Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us >> like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked >> across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and >> degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your >> back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your >> accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as >> long as you control the situation with your own personal power and >> not let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. >> Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso >> Kwak >> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered >> about this for so many times... >> Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. >> Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the >> field carrying class flag. >> This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us >> she said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and >> can represent the class well." >> It was surprising rather than offensive... >> I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind >> student but I am not sure if I represent the class. >> My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and >> just personal struggles throughout high school until this year when >> he made a positive turn-around. >> It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. >> Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. >> It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not >> but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for >> teens who may be struggling with life. >> You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life >> could give a positive outlook for others. >> I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my >> blindness. >> Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind >> people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. >> (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write >> in >> pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and >> "inspirational" >> If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind >> pole-vaulters in the list. >> Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming >> others' >> doubts? >> Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails >> by topics. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> Hi all, >> Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should >> have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the >> ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and >> also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose >> between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose >> blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize >> those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. >> >> I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the >> environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility >> etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a >> personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient >> than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to >> whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing >> what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and desires. >> When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been >> challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were >> eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who >> both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and >> the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and >> from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning >> my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people >> who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for >> somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to >> work full-time while going to school, for example. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, >>> I am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >>> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >>> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of >>> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >>> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >>> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >>> >>> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >>> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >>> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >>> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >>> >>> Just some thoughts, >>> Danielle >>> >>> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle >>>> many of the challenges we face >> as >>>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >>>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are >>>> nonetheless challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, >>>> and self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >>>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer >> of >>>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the >>>> label > of "amazing" >>>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale >> probably >>>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >>>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>>> >>>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general >> public, >>>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I >> do >>>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me >>>> on being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but >>>> because I do >> not >>>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>>> willing and able, >> but >>>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I >>>> know we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite >>>> (albeit >>>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>>> aggressive and confrontational. >>>> >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>>> that >> this >>>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was >> about >>>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind >> person. >>>>> >>>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president >> was >>>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned >> people >>>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree >> online >>>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a >>>>> girl who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her >>>>> education. I felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the >>>>> rare double major with a music major, but do I deserve to be >>>>> compared to those people who faced such real hardships? I don't >>>>> think so. Like Arielle, >> I've >>>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>>> were given to me. >>>>> >>>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about >> resilence >>>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. >> I >>>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it >> all >>>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are >>>>> amazing, but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. >>>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>>> >>>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>>>> >>>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing >> when >>>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit >>>>>> that anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a >>>>>> skill set which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little >>>>>> beyond ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I think >>>>>> they are > amazing. >>>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>>> something that >> everyone >>>>>> in >>>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person >>>>>> to assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are >>>>>> "amazing for a >> blind >>>>>> man." >>>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of >>>>>> them I >> don't. >>>>>> After >>>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where >> it >>>>>> goes, >>>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. >> Other >>>>>> times >>>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. >> It >>>>>> is >>>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a >> human >>>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely >> nothing. >>>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> melissa >>>>>> Green >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would >> want to >>>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>>> the school. >>>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like >> everyone >>>>>> else. >>>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>>>> No relying on others. >>>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>>> . >>>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>>> But I won't. >>>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made >> over >>>>>> me >>>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, >>>>>> as well as put >> a >>>>>> cap >>>>>> and >>>>>> gown on her. >>>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>>> That is what I did. >>>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa >>>>>> R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells >> me I >>>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like >>>>>> it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of >>>>>> that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a >>>>>> blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind >>>>>> people, >> even >>>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being >> told >>>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, >>>>>> because I >> don't >>>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life >>>>>> has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I >>>>>> feel >> they >>>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about >> me, >>>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough >>>>>> on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to >>>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly >>>>>> amazing vs. >> just >>>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an >> inspiration >>>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled >> with >>>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. >> When >>>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew >>>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but >>>>>> probably not >> to >>>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in >> our >>>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked >>>>>> me >> to >>>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was >>>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I >> eventually >>>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, >> but >>>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or >> poetry >>>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing >> was >>>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>>> writing >> before I >>>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made >>>>>> me >> out >>>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to >> resent >>>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same >>>>>> time. >> But >>>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one >> hand, >>>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be >>>>>> an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, >>>>>> held >> to >>>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about >> my >>>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the >> crowd >>>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>>> boys) instead. >>>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" >> failed my >>>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were >> some >>>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like >> answering >>>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>>> level, >> I >>>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was >>>>>> a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my >> algebra >>>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his >>>>>> class >> at >>>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with >> my >>>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I >>>>>> wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so >>>>>> perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I >>>>>> wasn't amazing, >> I >>>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as >> damaging >>>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying >>>>>> to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be >>>>>> forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class >>>>>> citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to >>>>>> achieve at, and >> we >>>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted >> folks >>>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>>> weaknesses. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. >> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >> com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Julie McG >>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding >>>>> Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that >>>>> he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not >>>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>>> John 3:16 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >> i >> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. >> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.co >> m >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. > com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Wed May 29 15:18:17 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 11:18:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] phone clal with pam allen Message-ID: <000701ce5c7f$bf7c7610$3e756230$@gmail.com> My computer was restored a week ago; can someone send me the link to the phone call with pam allan? From kwakmiso at aol.com Thu May 30 15:21:32 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> References: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> I attended school for the blind in Korea for 10 years and teachers often said we have to work twice or even triple times hard. I denied that saying but now while I don't necessarily agree, I would say it takes more time and energy in some things we we were to accomplish. Looking at my friends who have gone to colleges in Korea they might agree with this saying because they always have to fight for books and just less informed public in general. I believe work ethic comes because of the environment not just being blind it self. -----Original Message----- From: justin To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:11 am Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't say it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of work ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is what it is. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Hi all, I received an email a few days before the ceremony saying that the president wanted to identify some of the honors students in her speech. I sincerely thought that was the end of it, and I said yes because I knew my parents would be happy. I agree with you Arielle. Resilience isn't a personality trait we possess. We choose to be resilient--and this applies to sighted people as well. The difference in our case is that it seems more obvious. I think we display this form of resilience when we choose to answer random questions from strangers when we would rather be minding our own business. It is educating. I don't think that this makes us special or amazing though. Most of us are used to educating people and dealing with their ignorance. It's just something we do. I am torn about the idea that blind people have to work twice as hard. I'm not denying that it is true, but do we really want our blind children thinking that they need to work twice as hard to get anything accomplished? Maybe the answer is yes. But I'm not convinced. On 5/28/13, justin wrote: > I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing despite > learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. However, > because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal > as a blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put > it down to an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill > set is impressive, a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't see, so I have to do > something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use the > fact > that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, > but once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them > together, wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing > comments as possible; I hate those, even when I may have done > something that could be considered amazing, probably because I have > gotten it too often and it's gotten annoying. For example, I was > somewhat annoyed in high school when I was presented with the heart > award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He meant well, and I was > not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think that he gave that to > me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done an interview > for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high school > which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my > blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in > college when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have been > the state champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would > have tried to leave the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would > have been included. I would only use blindness to show the skills of > adaptation which may be a moment of inspiration, a shot in the arm, or > a spark for someone who needs it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted athletes. > Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille and > canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a > sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. > > Arielle > > On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your >> intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. >> I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say >> that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for blindness >> is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of >> accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that >> to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little > better than average. >> Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us >> like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked >> across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and >> degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your >> back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your >> accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as >> long as you control the situation with your own personal power and >> not let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. >> Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso >> Kwak >> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered >> about this for so many times... >> Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. >> Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the >> field carrying class flag. >> This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us >> she said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and >> can represent the class well." >> It was surprising rather than offensive... >> I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind >> student but I am not sure if I represent the class. >> My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and >> just personal struggles throughout high school until this year when >> he made a positive turn-around. >> It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. >> Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. >> It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not >> but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for >> teens who may be struggling with life. >> You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life >> could give a positive outlook for others. >> I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my >> blindness. >> Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind >> people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. >> (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write >> in >> pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and >> "inspirational" >> If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind >> pole-vaulters in the list. >> Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming >> others' >> doubts? >> Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails >> by topics. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> Hi all, >> Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should >> have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the >> ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and >> also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose >> between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose >> blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize >> those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. >> >> I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the >> environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility >> etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a >> personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient >> than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to >> whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing >> what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and desires. >> When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been >> challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were >> eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who >> both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and >> the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and >> from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning >> my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people >> who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for >> somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to >> work full-time while going to school, for example. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, >>> I am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >>> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >>> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of >>> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >>> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >>> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >>> >>> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >>> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >>> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >>> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >>> >>> Just some thoughts, >>> Danielle >>> >>> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle >>>> many of the challenges we face >> as >>>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >>>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are >>>> nonetheless challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, >>>> and self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >>>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer >> of >>>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the >>>> label > of "amazing" >>>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale >> probably >>>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >>>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>>> >>>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general >> public, >>>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I >> do >>>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me >>>> on being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but >>>> because I do >> not >>>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>>> willing and able, >> but >>>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I >>>> know we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite >>>> (albeit >>>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>>> aggressive and confrontational. >>>> >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>>> that >> this >>>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was >> about >>>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind >> person. >>>>> >>>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president >> was >>>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned >> people >>>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree >> online >>>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a >>>>> girl who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her >>>>> education. I felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the >>>>> rare double major with a music major, but do I deserve to be >>>>> compared to those people who faced such real hardships? I don't >>>>> think so. Like Arielle, >> I've >>>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>>> were given to me. >>>>> >>>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about >> resilence >>>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. >> I >>>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it >> all >>>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are >>>>> amazing, but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. >>>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>>> >>>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>>>> >>>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing >> when >>>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit >>>>>> that anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a >>>>>> skill set which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little >>>>>> beyond ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I think >>>>>> they are > amazing. >>>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>>> something that >> everyone >>>>>> in >>>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person >>>>>> to assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are >>>>>> "amazing for a >> blind >>>>>> man." >>>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of >>>>>> them I >> don't. >>>>>> After >>>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where >> it >>>>>> goes, >>>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. >> Other >>>>>> times >>>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. >> It >>>>>> is >>>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a >> human >>>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely >> nothing. >>>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> melissa >>>>>> Green >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would >> want to >>>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>>> the school. >>>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like >> everyone >>>>>> else. >>>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>>>> No relying on others. >>>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>>> . >>>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>>> But I won't. >>>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made >> over >>>>>> me >>>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, >>>>>> as well as put >> a >>>>>> cap >>>>>> and >>>>>> gown on her. >>>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>>> That is what I did. >>>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa >>>>>> R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells >> me I >>>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like >>>>>> it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of >>>>>> that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a >>>>>> blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind >>>>>> people, >> even >>>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being >> told >>>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, >>>>>> because I >> don't >>>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life >>>>>> has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I >>>>>> feel >> they >>>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about >> me, >>>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough >>>>>> on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to >>>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly >>>>>> amazing vs. >> just >>>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an >> inspiration >>>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled >> with >>>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. >> When >>>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew >>>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but >>>>>> probably not >> to >>>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in >> our >>>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked >>>>>> me >> to >>>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was >>>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I >> eventually >>>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, >> but >>>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or >> poetry >>>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing >> was >>>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>>> writing >> before I >>>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made >>>>>> me >> out >>>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to >> resent >>>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same >>>>>> time. >> But >>>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one >> hand, >>>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be >>>>>> an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, >>>>>> held >> to >>>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about >> my >>>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the >> crowd >>>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>>> boys) instead. >>>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" >> failed my >>>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were >> some >>>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like >> answering >>>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>>> level, >> I >>>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was >>>>>> a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my >> algebra >>>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his >>>>>> class >> at >>>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with >> my >>>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I >>>>>> wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so >>>>>> perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I >>>>>> wasn't amazing, >> I >>>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as >> damaging >>>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying >>>>>> to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be >>>>>> forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class >>>>>> citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to >>>>>> achieve at, and >> we >>>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted >> folks >>>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>>> weaknesses. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. >> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >> com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Julie McG >>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding >>>>> Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that >>>>> he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not >>>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>>> John 3:16 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >> i >> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. >> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.co >> m >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. > com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Wed May 29 15:35:33 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 11:35:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> References: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000c01ce5c82$292ad5a0$7b8080e0$@gmail.com> Yeah, just a little extra energy is all you need; not twice as hard usually. Twice as hard would be nearly impossible to keep up for long. It is more paying attention to details, then givine all out effort in spirts like a championchip team . -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:22 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People I attended school for the blind in Korea for 10 years and teachers often said we have to work twice or even triple times hard. I denied that saying but now while I don't necessarily agree, I would say it takes more time and energy in some things we we were to accomplish. Looking at my friends who have gone to colleges in Korea they might agree with this saying because they always have to fight for books and just less informed public in general. I believe work ethic comes because of the environment not just being blind it self. -----Original Message----- From: justin To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:11 am Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't say it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of work ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is what it is. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Hi all, I received an email a few days before the ceremony saying that the president wanted to identify some of the honors students in her speech. I sincerely thought that was the end of it, and I said yes because I knew my parents would be happy. I agree with you Arielle. Resilience isn't a personality trait we possess. We choose to be resilient--and this applies to sighted people as well. The difference in our case is that it seems more obvious. I think we display this form of resilience when we choose to answer random questions from strangers when we would rather be minding our own business. It is educating. I don't think that this makes us special or amazing though. Most of us are used to educating people and dealing with their ignorance. It's just something we do. I am torn about the idea that blind people have to work twice as hard. I'm not denying that it is true, but do we really want our blind children thinking that they need to work twice as hard to get anything accomplished? Maybe the answer is yes. But I'm not convinced. On 5/28/13, justin wrote: > I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing despite > learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. However, > because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal > as a blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put > it down to an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill > set is impressive, a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't see, so I have to do > something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use the > fact > that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, > but once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them > together, wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing > comments as possible; I hate those, even when I may have done > something that could be considered amazing, probably because I have > gotten it too often and it's gotten annoying. For example, I was > somewhat annoyed in high school when I was presented with the heart > award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He meant well, and I was > not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think that he gave that to > me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done an interview > for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high school > which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my > blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in > college when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have been > the state champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would > have tried to leave the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would > have been included. I would only use blindness to show the skills of > adaptation which may be a moment of inspiration, a shot in the arm, or > a spark for someone who needs it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted athletes. > Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille and > canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a > sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. > > Arielle > > On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your >> intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. >> I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say >> that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for blindness >> is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of >> accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that >> to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little > better than average. >> Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us >> like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked >> across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and >> degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your >> back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your >> accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as >> long as you control the situation with your own personal power and >> not let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. >> Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso >> Kwak >> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered >> about this for so many times... >> Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. >> Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the >> field carrying class flag. >> This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us >> she said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and >> can represent the class well." >> It was surprising rather than offensive... >> I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind >> student but I am not sure if I represent the class. >> My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and >> just personal struggles throughout high school until this year when >> he made a positive turn-around. >> It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. >> Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. >> It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not >> but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for >> teens who may be struggling with life. >> You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life >> could give a positive outlook for others. >> I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my >> blindness. >> Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind >> people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. >> (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write >> in >> pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and >> "inspirational" >> If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind >> pole-vaulters in the list. >> Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming >> others' >> doubts? >> Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails >> by topics. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> Hi all, >> Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should >> have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the >> ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and >> also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose >> between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose >> blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize >> those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. >> >> I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the >> environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility >> etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a >> personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient >> than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to >> whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing >> what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and desires. >> When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been >> challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were >> eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who >> both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and >> the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and >> from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning >> my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people >> who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for >> somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to >> work full-time while going to school, for example. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, >>> I am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >>> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >>> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of >>> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >>> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >>> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >>> >>> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >>> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >>> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >>> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >>> >>> Just some thoughts, >>> Danielle >>> >>> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle >>>> many of the challenges we face >> as >>>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >>>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are >>>> nonetheless challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, >>>> and self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >>>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer >> of >>>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the >>>> label > of "amazing" >>>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale >> probably >>>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >>>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>>> >>>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general >> public, >>>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I >> do >>>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me >>>> on being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but >>>> because I do >> not >>>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>>> willing and able, >> but >>>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I >>>> know we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite >>>> (albeit >>>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>>> aggressive and confrontational. >>>> >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>>> that >> this >>>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was >> about >>>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind >> person. >>>>> >>>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president >> was >>>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned >> people >>>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree >> online >>>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a >>>>> girl who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her >>>>> education. I felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the >>>>> rare double major with a music major, but do I deserve to be >>>>> compared to those people who faced such real hardships? I don't >>>>> think so. Like Arielle, >> I've >>>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>>> were given to me. >>>>> >>>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about >> resilence >>>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. >> I >>>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it >> all >>>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are >>>>> amazing, but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. >>>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>>> >>>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>>>> >>>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing >> when >>>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit >>>>>> that anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a >>>>>> skill set which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little >>>>>> beyond ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I think >>>>>> they are > amazing. >>>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>>> something that >> everyone >>>>>> in >>>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person >>>>>> to assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are >>>>>> "amazing for a >> blind >>>>>> man." >>>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of >>>>>> them I >> don't. >>>>>> After >>>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where >> it >>>>>> goes, >>>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. >> Other >>>>>> times >>>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. >> It >>>>>> is >>>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a >> human >>>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely >> nothing. >>>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> melissa >>>>>> Green >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would >> want to >>>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>>> the school. >>>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like >> everyone >>>>>> else. >>>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>>>> No relying on others. >>>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>>> . >>>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>>> But I won't. >>>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made >> over >>>>>> me >>>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, >>>>>> as well as put >> a >>>>>> cap >>>>>> and >>>>>> gown on her. >>>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>>> That is what I did. >>>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa >>>>>> R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells >> me I >>>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like >>>>>> it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of >>>>>> that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a >>>>>> blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind >>>>>> people, >> even >>>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being >> told >>>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, >>>>>> because I >> don't >>>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life >>>>>> has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I >>>>>> feel >> they >>>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about >> me, >>>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough >>>>>> on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to >>>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly >>>>>> amazing vs. >> just >>>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an >> inspiration >>>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled >> with >>>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. >> When >>>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew >>>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but >>>>>> probably not >> to >>>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in >> our >>>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked >>>>>> me >> to >>>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was >>>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I >> eventually >>>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, >> but >>>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or >> poetry >>>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing >> was >>>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>>> writing >> before I >>>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made >>>>>> me >> out >>>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to >> resent >>>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same >>>>>> time. >> But >>>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one >> hand, >>>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be >>>>>> an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, >>>>>> held >> to >>>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about >> my >>>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the >> crowd >>>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>>> boys) instead. >>>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" >> failed my >>>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were >> some >>>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like >> answering >>>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>>> level, >> I >>>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was >>>>>> a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my >> algebra >>>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his >>>>>> class >> at >>>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with >> my >>>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I >>>>>> wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so >>>>>> perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I >>>>>> wasn't amazing, >> I >>>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as >> damaging >>>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying >>>>>> to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be >>>>>> forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class >>>>>> citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to >>>>>> achieve at, and >> we >>>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted >> folks >>>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>>> weaknesses. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. >> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >> com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Julie McG >>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding >>>>> Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that >>>>> he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not >>>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>>> John 3:16 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >> i >> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. >> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.co >> m >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. > com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From djdan567 at gmail.com Thu May 30 15:42:53 2013 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:42:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: <8D02AED29E4C9EF-2338-36F04@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com> <000101ce5c12$ff013900$fd03ab00$@gmail.com> <000e01ce5c1b$3a612340$af2369c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: What I'm about to say might ster up some feelings. However, i feel as if you have to work hard, no matter what anyone says. We live in a sighted world, we live in a very judgmental world, and if you don't put your best foot forward, you will absolutely, one hundred percent look and become incapable to the general public. Okay, that's on you, don't care about what everyone thinks, but then don't complain about how people don't take you serious/look at you like a normal person in our everyday life. I don't mean to come off very harsh, but I don't know how else to say something like this. We all have to get used to working harder, whether we're children, teens, or adults. It's just the cards that we were delt with. Take care you guys! On 5/30/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi all, > > I received an email a few days before the ceremony saying that the > president wanted to identify some of the honors students in her > speech. I sincerely thought that was the end of it, and I said yes > because I knew my parents would be happy. > > I agree with you Arielle. Resilience isn't a personality trait we > possess. We choose to be resilient--and this applies to sighted > people as well. The difference in our case is that it seems more > obvious. I think we display this form of resilience when we choose to > answer random questions from strangers when we would rather be minding > our own business. It is educating. I don't think that this makes us > special or amazing though. Most of us are used to educating people > and dealing with their ignorance. It's just something we do. > > I am torn about the idea that blind people have to work twice as hard. > I'm not denying that it is true, but do we really want our blind > children thinking that they need to work twice as hard to get anything > accomplished? Maybe the answer is yes. But I'm not convinced. > > On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >> I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing >> despite >> learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. However, >> because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal as >> a >> blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put it down >> to >> an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill set is >> impressive, >> a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't see, so I have to do >> something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use the >> fact >> that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, but >> once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them together, >> wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing comments as >> possible; >> I hate those, even when I may have done something that could be >> considered >> amazing, probably because I have gotten it too often and it's gotten >> annoying. For example, I was somewhat annoyed in high school when I was >> presented with the heart award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He >> meant well, and I was not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think >> that >> he gave that to me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done >> an >> interview for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high >> school which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my >> blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in college >> when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have been the state >> champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would have tried to >> leave >> the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would have been included. I >> would >> only use blindness to show the skills of adaptation which may be a moment >> of >> inspiration, a shot in the arm, or a spark for someone who needs it. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted athletes. >> Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille and >> canes >> to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a sport is >> impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >>> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your >>> intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. >>> I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say >>> that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for blindness >>> is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of >>> accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that >>> to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little >> better than average. >>> Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us >>> like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked >>> across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and >>> degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your >>> back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your >>> accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as >>> long as you control the situation with your own personal power and not >>> let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. >>> Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered >>> about this for so many times... >>> Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. >>> Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the >>> field carrying class flag. >>> This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us she >>> said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and can >>> represent the class well." >>> It was surprising rather than offensive... >>> I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind >>> student but I am not sure if I represent the class. >>> My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and just >>> personal struggles throughout high school until this year when he made >>> a positive turn-around. >>> It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. >>> Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. >>> It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not >>> but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for >>> teens who may be struggling with life. >>> You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life >>> could give a positive outlook for others. >>> I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my >>> blindness. >>> Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind >>> people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. >>> (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write in >>> pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and >>> "inspirational" >>> If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind >>> pole-vaulters in the list. >>> Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming >>> others' >>> doubts? >>> Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails >>> by topics. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should have >>> at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the >>> ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and also >>> by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose between >>> blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose blindness >>> any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize those men's >>> lives any more than they can characterize mine. >>> >>> I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the >>> environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility >>> etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a >>> personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient >>> than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to >>> whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing >>> what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and >>> desires. >>> When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been >>> challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were >>> eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who >>> both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and >>> the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and >>> from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning my >>> double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people who >>> don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for >>> somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to work >>> full-time while going to school, for example. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, I >>>> am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >>>> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >>>> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of >>>> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >>>> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >>>> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >>>> >>>> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >>>> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >>>> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >>>> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >>>> >>>> Just some thoughts, >>>> Danielle >>>> >>>> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>>>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>>>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>>>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>>>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>>>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle many >>>>> of the challenges we face >>> as >>>>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>>>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >>>>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are nonetheless >>>>> challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, and >>>>> self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >>>>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>>>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>>>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer >>> of >>>>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>>>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>>>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>>>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>>>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>>>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the label >> of "amazing" >>>>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale >>> probably >>>>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>>>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >>>>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>>>> >>>>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general >>> public, >>>>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I >>> do >>>>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>>>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>>>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>>>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me on >>>>> being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but because >>>>> I do >>> not >>>>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>>>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>>>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>>>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>>>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>>>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>>>> willing and able, >>> but >>>>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I know >>>>> we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite (albeit >>>>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>>>> aggressive and confrontational. >>>>> >>>>> Katie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>>>> that >>> this >>>>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was >>> about >>>>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind >>> person. >>>>>> >>>>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president >>> was >>>>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned >>> people >>>>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree >>> online >>>>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a girl >>>>>> who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her education. I >>>>>> felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the rare double major >>>>>> with a music major, but do I deserve to be compared to those people >>>>>> who faced such real hardships? I don't think so. Like Arielle, >>> I've >>>>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>>>> were given to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about >>> resilence >>>>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. >>> I >>>>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>>>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it >>> all >>>>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are amazing, >>>>>> but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. >>>>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing >>> when >>>>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit that >>>>>>> anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a skill set >>>>>>> which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little beyond >>>>>>> ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I think they are >> amazing. >>>>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>>>> something that >>> everyone >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person to >>>>>>> assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are "amazing >>>>>>> for a >>> blind >>>>>>> man." >>>>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of >>>>>>> them I >>> don't. >>>>>>> After >>>>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where >>> it >>>>>>> goes, >>>>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. >>> Other >>>>>>> times >>>>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. >>> It >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a >>> human >>>>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely >>> nothing. >>>>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> melissa >>>>>>> Green >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would >>> want to >>>>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>>>> the school. >>>>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like >>> everyone >>>>>>> else. >>>>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>>>>> No relying on others. >>>>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>>>> But I won't. >>>>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made >>> over >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, as >>>>>>> well as put >>> a >>>>>>> cap >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> gown on her. >>>>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>>>> That is what I did. >>>>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa R >>>>>>> Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells >>> me I >>>>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like it >>>>>>> because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of that >>>>>>> compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a blind >>>>>>> person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind people, >>> even >>>>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being >>> told >>>>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, because >>>>>>> I >>> don't >>>>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life has >>>>>>> been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I feel >>> they >>>>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about >>> me, >>>>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough on >>>>>>> blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to >>>>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly amazing >>>>>>> vs. >>> just >>>>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an >>> inspiration >>>>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled >>> with >>>>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. >>> When >>>>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew >>>>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but probably >>>>>>> not >>> to >>>>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in >>> our >>>>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked me >>> to >>>>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was >>>>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I >>> eventually >>>>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, >>> but >>>>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or >>> poetry >>>>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing >>> was >>>>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>>>> writing >>> before I >>>>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made me >>> out >>>>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to >>> resent >>>>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same >>>>>>> time. >>> But >>>>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one >>> hand, >>>>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be an >>>>>>> amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, held >>> to >>>>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about >>> my >>>>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the >>> crowd >>>>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>>>> boys) instead. >>>>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" >>> failed my >>>>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were >>> some >>>>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like >>> answering >>>>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>>>> level, >>> I >>>>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was a >>>>>>> human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my >>> algebra >>>>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his class >>> at >>>>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with >>> my >>>>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I wouldn't >>>>>>> succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so perhaps, >>>>>>> ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I wasn't amazing, >>> I >>>>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as >>> damaging >>>>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying to >>>>>>> figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be forced >>>>>>> into the position of inspiring others. As first-class citizens, we >>>>>>> have the right to achieve at the level we wish to achieve at, and >>> we >>>>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted >>> folks >>>>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>>>> weaknesses. >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. >>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>> 0gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Julie McG >>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes >>>>>> for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he >>>>>> gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not >>>>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>>>> John 3:16 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmai >>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. >>> com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>> 0gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, > Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, > and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > -- Daniel C. Romero Bergen Community College '14 Host, imager, and producer, The Dan ShowLive Cell: 973-842-1600 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/djdan567 Twitter: @Djdan567 From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Thu May 30 18:29:19 2013 From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 14:29:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> References: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hey Miso, this is Helga! I just wantded to tell you that I'm a Christian as well!, and I think that you are definitely right! when you say that God has a purpose. I actually believe that God has a purpose for everyone even if they are blind or not. I'm actually blind, and I'm studying in college in order to become a Lawyer. By The way, just to let you know, I just became blind 5 years ago, but I didn't let this circumstance stop me in order to accomplish my goals. Thanks! for listening to me, and God bless! hope to talk to you soon! :) -----Original Message----- From: Miso Kwak Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:21 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People I attended school for the blind in Korea for 10 years and teachers often said we have to work twice or even triple times hard. I denied that saying but now while I don't necessarily agree, I would say it takes more time and energy in some things we we were to accomplish. Looking at my friends who have gone to colleges in Korea they might agree with this saying because they always have to fight for books and just less informed public in general. I believe work ethic comes because of the environment not just being blind it self. -----Original Message----- From: justin To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:11 am Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't say it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of work ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is what it is. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Hi all, I received an email a few days before the ceremony saying that the president wanted to identify some of the honors students in her speech. I sincerely thought that was the end of it, and I said yes because I knew my parents would be happy. I agree with you Arielle. Resilience isn't a personality trait we possess. We choose to be resilient--and this applies to sighted people as well. The difference in our case is that it seems more obvious. I think we display this form of resilience when we choose to answer random questions from strangers when we would rather be minding our own business. It is educating. I don't think that this makes us special or amazing though. Most of us are used to educating people and dealing with their ignorance. It's just something we do. I am torn about the idea that blind people have to work twice as hard. I'm not denying that it is true, but do we really want our blind children thinking that they need to work twice as hard to get anything accomplished? Maybe the answer is yes. But I'm not convinced. On 5/28/13, justin wrote: > I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing despite > learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. However, > because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal > as a blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put > it down to an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill > set is impressive, a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't see, so I have to do > something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use the > fact > that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, > but once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them > together, wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing > comments as possible; I hate those, even when I may have done > something that could be considered amazing, probably because I have > gotten it too often and it's gotten annoying. For example, I was > somewhat annoyed in high school when I was presented with the heart > award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He meant well, and I was > not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think that he gave that to > me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done an interview > for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high school > which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my > blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in > college when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have been > the state champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would > have tried to leave the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would > have been included. I would only use blindness to show the skills of > adaptation which may be a moment of inspiration, a shot in the arm, or > a spark for someone who needs it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted athletes. > Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille and > canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a > sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. > > Arielle > > On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your >> intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. >> I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say >> that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for blindness >> is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of >> accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that >> to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little > better than average. >> Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us >> like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked >> across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and >> degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your >> back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your >> accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as >> long as you control the situation with your own personal power and >> not let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. >> Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso >> Kwak >> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered >> about this for so many times... >> Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. >> Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the >> field carrying class flag. >> This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us >> she said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles and >> can represent the class well." >> It was surprising rather than offensive... >> I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind >> student but I am not sure if I represent the class. >> My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and >> just personal struggles throughout high school until this year when >> he made a positive turn-around. >> It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. >> Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. >> It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not >> but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for >> teens who may be struggling with life. >> You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life >> could give a positive outlook for others. >> I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my >> blindness. >> Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind >> people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. >> (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write >> in >> pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and >> "inspirational" >> If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind >> pole-vaulters in the list. >> Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming >> others' >> doubts? >> Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating emails >> by topics. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> Hi all, >> Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should >> have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at the >> ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and >> also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose >> between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose >> blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize >> those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. >> >> I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the >> environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility >> etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a >> personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be resilient >> than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to >> whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing >> what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and desires. >> When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been >> challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were >> eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who >> both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and >> the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and >> from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning >> my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when people >> who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than for >> somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to >> work full-time while going to school, for example. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, >>> I am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >>> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >>> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations of >>> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >>> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >>> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >>> >>> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >>> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >>> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >>> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >>> >>> Just some thoughts, >>> Danielle >>> >>> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle >>>> many of the challenges we face >> as >>>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations and >>>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are >>>> nonetheless challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, >>>> and self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted people >>>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer >> of >>>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the >>>> label > of "amazing" >>>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale >> probably >>>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking around >>>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>>> >>>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general >> public, >>>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I >> do >>>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me >>>> on being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but >>>> because I do >> not >>>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>>> willing and able, >> but >>>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I >>>> know we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite >>>> (albeit >>>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>>> aggressive and confrontational. >>>> >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>>> that >> this >>>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was >> about >>>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind >> person. >>>>> >>>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president >> was >>>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned >> people >>>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree >> online >>>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a >>>>> girl who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her >>>>> education. I felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the >>>>> rare double major with a music major, but do I deserve to be >>>>> compared to those people who faced such real hardships? I don't >>>>> think so. Like Arielle, >> I've >>>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>>> were given to me. >>>>> >>>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about >> resilence >>>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. >> I >>>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us a >>>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it >> all >>>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are >>>>> amazing, but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on life. >>>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>>> >>>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting discussion! >>>>> >>>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing >> when >>>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit >>>>>> that anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a >>>>>> skill set which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little >>>>>> beyond ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I think >>>>>> they are > amazing. >>>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>>> something that >> everyone >>>>>> in >>>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person >>>>>> to assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are >>>>>> "amazing for a >> blind >>>>>> man." >>>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some of >>>>>> them I >> don't. >>>>>> After >>>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where >> it >>>>>> goes, >>>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. >> Other >>>>>> times >>>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a joke. >> It >>>>>> is >>>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a >> human >>>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely >> nothing. >>>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> melissa >>>>>> Green >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would >> want to >>>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>>> the school. >>>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like >> everyone >>>>>> else. >>>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely independent. >>>>>> No relying on others. >>>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>>> . >>>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>>> But I won't. >>>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made >> over >>>>>> me >>>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, >>>>>> as well as put >> a >>>>>> cap >>>>>> and >>>>>> gown on her. >>>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>>> That is what I did. >>>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa >>>>>> R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells >> me I >>>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like >>>>>> it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of >>>>>> that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a >>>>>> blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind >>>>>> people, >> even >>>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being >> told >>>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, >>>>>> because I >> don't >>>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life >>>>>> has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I >>>>>> feel >> they >>>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about >> me, >>>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough >>>>>> on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard to >>>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly >>>>>> amazing vs. >> just >>>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an >> inspiration >>>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled >> with >>>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. >> When >>>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I grew >>>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but >>>>>> probably not >> to >>>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down some >>>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with sighted >>>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in >> our >>>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked >>>>>> me >> to >>>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only was >>>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I >> eventually >>>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, >> but >>>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or >> poetry >>>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing >> was >>>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>>> writing >> before I >>>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made >>>>>> me >> out >>>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to >> resent >>>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same >>>>>> time. >> But >>>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one >> hand, >>>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be >>>>>> an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, >>>>>> held >> to >>>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about >> my >>>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the >> crowd >>>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>>> boys) instead. >>>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" >> failed my >>>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were >> some >>>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like >> answering >>>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>>> level, >> I >>>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was >>>>>> a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always an >>>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my >> algebra >>>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his >>>>>> class >> at >>>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with >> my >>>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I >>>>>> wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so >>>>>> perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I >>>>>> wasn't amazing, >> I >>>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best I >>>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as >> damaging >>>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying >>>>>> to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be >>>>>> forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class >>>>>> citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to >>>>>> achieve at, and >> we >>>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted >> folks >>>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>>> weaknesses. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. >> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >> com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Julie McG >>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding >>>>> Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that >>>>> he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not >>>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>>> John 3:16 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >> i >> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. >> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.co >> m >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >> 4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. > com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu May 30 19:19:24 2013 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 15:19:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Dear all, I've been following this thread on and off, and didn't want to weigh in, but I will... I think that we can go too far in either direction. We can be the person who does think they are amazing because they are blind and can walk. Or you can be the person who will always shrug off a compliment, because they think that the only reason they are getting it is because they are blind, and they believe that they are the definition of average. My approach is being balanced. Perhaps this is because I know I have overcome quite a number of challenges in life, very few of which had anything to do with my blindness. Perhaps because I had a mother who never ever allowed my blindness to be neither a hindrance nor an advantage. She was very clear that yes I was blind, so what? And so that became ingrained in my psyche, to the point where my disability was never really a source of psychological distress. Yes, I did have the question of how I would be successful, and if I was the only blind person who had dreams and aspirations. And how I might make those dreams and aspirations come true when so many people clearly thought I shouldn’t even be able to tie my shoelaces. And yes, it wasn’t until I met blind role models, that I knew that not only could I make my dreams come true, but that others had overcome the challenges that misconceptions present. In my case, I set out to prove the world wrong, and became an overachiever. People who are overachievers usually have an underlying reason for always wanting to come out on top, for me it was that I was blind. For other teens it might be insecurities about their looks, their popularity etc. As an adult I am fully aware that in order to be successful and to be taken seriously as a blind person, one must work very hard and always prove themselves. This is because of the misconceptions of the world. It is unrealistic to pretend that just any average blind person can become a manager in the work place. Discrimination does exist, whether it is based on gender, race, sexual orientation or disability. And the sad truth is that when a person sees me walking with my white cane, many of them cannot begin to imagine how I could possibly be ok, and that it is their responsibility for them to help me, after all I am disadvantaged, they are not. Thus, I know it is my responsibility to educate each of those people wrong. It is my responsibility to prove the nay sayers, who go beyond, oh she’s disadvantaged, to she can’t do it because she’s blind, therefore she must be lacking in some essential way. But it is also my responsibility to myself to recognize my accomplishment and savor my achievements. It is my responsibility to myself to build healthy, mutually respectful relationships, in which I am secure in the knowledge that that person and I understand each other, and that we see each other for the person for who we are as opposed to some random trait we possess. And when that person says, you have done a great job, that you gone above and beyond what I expected, I can recognize that it isn’t because they are being condescending but rather because they have held me to the standard to which they hold everyone else. It is important to find these types of relationships both professionally and personally. We want someone to tell us when we are lacking, but also to tell us when we rocked something. I am fortunate to work in a place where I know all of my coworkers and superiors are holding me to the standard to which they hold every other employee. And while it is my instinct to dismiss a compliment from anyone, I’m learning to take them and say thank you. It’s important to learn these ladies and gentlemen, because if we do not give ourselves credit for the things we do, and the accomplishments we achieve, there is no point to them. I think the key is in having a high standard for yourself, not compromising that standard, and knowing when you just have to ignore the people I the street who say silly things like, wow you match. But also when to pay attention to people who see beyond your disability and are speaking of your character. On 5/30/13, Helga wrote: > Hey Miso, this is Helga! I just wantded to tell you that I'm a Christian as > > well!, and I think that you are definitely right! when you say that God has > > a purpose. I actually believe that God has a purpose for everyone even if > they are blind or not. I'm actually blind, and I'm studying in college in > order to become a Lawyer. By The way, just to let you know, I just became > blind 5 years ago, but I didn't let this circumstance stop me in order to > accomplish my goals. Thanks! for listening to me, and God bless! hope to > talk to you soon! :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Miso Kwak > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:21 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > I attended school for the blind in Korea for 10 years and teachers > often said we have to work twice or even triple times hard. I denied > that saying but now while I don't necessarily agree, I would say it > takes more time and energy in some things we we were to accomplish. > Looking at my friends who have gone to colleges in Korea they might > agree with this saying because they always have to fight for books and > just less informed public in general. > I believe work ethic comes because of the environment not just being > blind it self. > > -----Original Message----- > From: justin > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > > Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:11 am > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't > say > it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of > work > ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is > what > it is. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie > McGinnity > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People > > Hi all, > > I received an email a few days before the ceremony saying that the > president > wanted to identify some of the honors students in her speech. I > sincerely > thought that was the end of it, and I said yes because I knew my parents > would be happy. > > I agree with you Arielle. Resilience isn't a personality trait we > possess. > We choose to be resilient--and this applies to sighted people as well. > The > difference in our case is that it seems more obvious. I think we > display > this form of resilience when we choose to answer random questions from > strangers when we would rather be minding our own business. It is > educating. I don't think that this makes us special or amazing though. > Most of us are used to educating people and dealing with their > ignorance. > It's just something we do. > > I am torn about the idea that blind people have to work twice as hard. > I'm not denying that it is true, but do we really want our blind > children > thinking that they need to work twice as hard to get anything > accomplished? > Maybe the answer is yes. But I'm not convinced. > > On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >> I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing > despite >> learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. > However, >> because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal >> as a blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put >> it down to an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill >> set is impressive, a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't > see, > so I have to do >> something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use > the >> fact >> that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, >> but once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them >> together, wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing >> comments as possible; I hate those, even when I may have done >> something that could be considered amazing, probably because I have >> gotten it too often and it's gotten annoying. For example, I was >> somewhat annoyed in high school when I was presented with the heart >> award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He meant well, and I was >> not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think that he gave that to >> me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done an interview >> for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high school >> which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my >> blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in >> college when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have > been >> the state champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would >> have tried to leave the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would >> have been included. I would only use blindness to show the skills of >> adaptation which may be a moment of inspiration, a shot in the arm, > or >> a spark for someone who needs it. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted > athletes. >> Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille > and >> canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a >> sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >>> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your >>> intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. >>> I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say >>> that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for > blindness >>> is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of >>> accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that >>> to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little >> better than average. >>> Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us >>> like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked >>> across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and >>> degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your >>> back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your >>> accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as >>> long as you control the situation with your own personal power and >>> not let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. >>> Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso >>> Kwak >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered >>> about this for so many times... >>> Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. >>> Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the >>> field carrying class flag. >>> This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us >>> she said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles > and >>> can represent the class well." >>> It was surprising rather than offensive... >>> I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind >>> student but I am not sure if I represent the class. >>> My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and >>> just personal struggles throughout high school until this year when >>> he made a positive turn-around. >>> It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. >>> Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. >>> It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not >>> but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for >>> teens who may be struggling with life. >>> You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life >>> could give a positive outlook for others. >>> I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my >>> blindness. >>> Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind >>> people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. >>> (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write >>> in >>> pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and >>> "inspirational" >>> If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind >>> pole-vaulters in the list. >>> Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming >>> others' >>> doubts? >>> Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating > emails >>> by topics. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should >>> have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at > the >>> ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and >>> also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose >>> between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose >>> blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize >>> those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. >>> >>> I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the >>> environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility >>> etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a >>> personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be > resilient >>> than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to >>> whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing >>> what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and > desires. >>> When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been >>> challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were >>> eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who >>> both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and >>> the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and >>> from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning >>> my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when > people >>> who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than > for >>> somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to >>> work full-time while going to school, for example. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, >>>> I am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >>>> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >>>> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations > of >>>> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >>>> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >>>> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >>>> >>>> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >>>> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >>>> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >>>> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >>>> >>>> Just some thoughts, >>>> Danielle >>>> >>>> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>>>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>>>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>>>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>>>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>>>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle >>>>> many of the challenges we face >>> as >>>>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>>>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations > and >>>>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are >>>>> nonetheless challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, >>>>> and self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted > people >>>>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>>>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>>>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer >>> of >>>>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>>>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>>>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>>>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>>>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>>>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the >>>>> label >> of "amazing" >>>>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale >>> probably >>>>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>>>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking > around >>>>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>>>> >>>>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general >>> public, >>>>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I >>> do >>>>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>>>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>>>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>>>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me >>>>> on being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but >>>>> because I do >>> not >>>>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>>>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>>>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>>>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>>>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>>>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>>>> willing and able, >>> but >>>>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I >>>>> know we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite >>>>> (albeit >>>>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>>>> aggressive and confrontational. >>>>> >>>>> Katie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>>>> that >>> this >>>>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was >>> about >>>>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind >>> person. >>>>>> >>>>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president >>> was >>>>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned >>> people >>>>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree >>> online >>>>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a >>>>>> girl who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her >>>>>> education. I felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the >>>>>> rare double major with a music major, but do I deserve to be >>>>>> compared to those people who faced such real hardships? I don't >>>>>> think so. Like Arielle, >>> I've >>>>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>>>> were given to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about >>> resilence >>>>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. >>> I >>>>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us > a >>>>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it >>> all >>>>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are >>>>>> amazing, but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on > life. >>>>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting > discussion! >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing >>> when >>>>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit >>>>>>> that anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a >>>>>>> skill set which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little >>>>>>> beyond ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I > think >>>>>>> they are >> amazing. >>>>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>>>> something that >>> everyone >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person >>>>>>> to assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are >>>>>>> "amazing for a >>> blind >>>>>>> man." >>>>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some > of >>>>>>> them I >>> don't. >>>>>>> After >>>>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where >>> it >>>>>>> goes, >>>>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. >>> Other >>>>>>> times >>>>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a > joke. >>> It >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a >>> human >>>>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely >>> nothing. >>>>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> melissa >>>>>>> Green >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would >>> want to >>>>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>>>> the school. >>>>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like >>> everyone >>>>>>> else. >>>>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely > independent. >>>>>>> No relying on others. >>>>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>>>> But I won't. >>>>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made >>> over >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, >>>>>>> as well as put >>> a >>>>>>> cap >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> gown on her. >>>>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>>>> That is what I did. >>>>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa >>>>>>> R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells >>> me I >>>>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like >>>>>>> it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of >>>>>>> that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a >>>>>>> blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind >>>>>>> people, >>> even >>>>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being >>> told >>>>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, >>>>>>> because I >>> don't >>>>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life >>>>>>> has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I >>>>>>> feel >>> they >>>>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about >>> me, >>>>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough >>>>>>> on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard > to >>>>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly >>>>>>> amazing vs. >>> just >>>>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an >>> inspiration >>>>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled >>> with >>>>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. >>> When >>>>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I > grew >>>>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but >>>>>>> probably not >>> to >>>>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down > some >>>>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with > sighted >>>>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in >>> our >>>>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked >>>>>>> me >>> to >>>>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only > was >>>>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I >>> eventually >>>>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, >>> but >>>>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or >>> poetry >>>>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing >>> was >>>>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>>>> writing >>> before I >>>>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made >>>>>>> me >>> out >>>>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to >>> resent >>>>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same >>>>>>> time. >>> But >>>>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one >>> hand, >>>>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be >>>>>>> an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, >>>>>>> held >>> to >>>>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about >>> my >>>>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the >>> crowd >>>>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>>>> boys) instead. >>>>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" >>> failed my >>>>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were >>> some >>>>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like >>> answering >>>>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>>>> level, >>> I >>>>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was >>>>>>> a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always > an >>>>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my >>> algebra >>>>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his >>>>>>> class >>> at >>>>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with >>> my >>>>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I >>>>>>> wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so >>>>>>> perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I >>>>>>> wasn't amazing, >>> I >>>>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best > I >>>>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as >>> damaging >>>>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying >>>>>>> to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be >>>>>>> forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class >>>>>>> citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to >>>>>>> achieve at, and >>> we >>>>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted >>> folks >>>>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>>>> weaknesses. >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. >>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >>> 4 >>> 0gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Julie McG >>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding >>>>>> Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that >>>>>> he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may > not >>>>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>>>> John 3:16 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >>> i >>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. >>> com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.co >>> m >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >>> 4 >>> 0gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >> com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation > of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of > Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 > "For > God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who > believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." — Maya Angelou From weirdwriter9891 at gmail.com Thu May 30 20:04:54 2013 From: weirdwriter9891 at gmail.com (The weird writer) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 15:04:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Journalist interviews Josh blue: the comedian with cerebral palsy. In-Reply-To: <51A570C8.5090608@gmail.com> References: <51A570C8.5090608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51A7B0E6.9080303@gmail.com> Robert Kingett is a blind journalist living in Chicago who specializes in adaptive sports but today the comedian Josh Blue sits down and a deep discussion about disability and stereotypes blossoms into a kind of awareness that you can't help but see. Read Robert Kingett’s interview below. http://americascomedy.com/josh-blue-putting-the-cerebral-in-cerebral-palsy/ From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Thu May 30 21:10:14 2013 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 16:10:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate for Convention Message-ID: Hi all, This is the first time I have sent out an email like this, so please bear with me. I am looking for a roommate for national convention in Orlando this summer. [male] If anyone is interested please contact me off list at jordan.rich0913 at gmail.com so we can hash out the details. See you all in Orlando! Jordan Richardson -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu May 30 21:19:51 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 15:19:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I don't think that all of us always have to work twice as hard to get things done. I do think that sometimes, some of us have to work harder because of blindness, but it doesn't apply equally to all of us all the time. For example, when I was an undergrad student, I did have to do some extra work to hunt down accessible textbooks and gain access to visual online materials, like gene maps for my genetics class. Now that I am in grad school, however, textbooks are rarely used and electronic copies of articles are readily furnished to all students. So, in grad school, blindness has little impact on my overall workload. Other times, extra work has allowed me to get ahead. In middle school we were often given vocab assignments which involved writing down definitions from the book's glossary. Since the glossary was several volumes in Braille, this was very inefficient for me. However, I soon discovered it was actually much quicker to just (gasp) read the chapter and learn the vocab words that way instead of looking up definitions. This was a little extra work on the front end, but it had the advantage that when the other students were assigned to read the chapter, I'd already finished that and could move on. I do think some of us face substantial obstacles related to blindness. On closer examination these obstacles usually have more to do with social prejudices than with blindness itself. For example, blind kids who aren't taught Braille until later in life do face challenges with reading, writing, test-taking etc. That's not because of blindness, but because of unfavorable social attitudes toward Braille. For others blindness could interact with something else--financial problems, or a bad home life--to create legitimate obstacles. What I don't like is when people assume I have these challenges without knowing anything about me except that I am blind. The challenges of blindness, or lack thereof, are different for every person and the same person could experience different levels of challenge at different points in time. Too often these nuances aren't recognized by the sighted public. Instead, anything a blind person achieves must have been very difficult and only achieved because the blind person is exceptional. I can also relate to Mary's comments about becoming an overachiever due to blindness. In my own case it was because as the youngest child, blind and also physically tiny, I think I was babied a lot by family members and others in my life. I was driven to excel in school in order to compensate for the inferior and infantilizing way I was often treated. I don't think this reaction is a bad one as long as the person doesn't become so perfectionistic that failure becomes intolerable. Arielle On 5/30/13, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Dear all, > I've been following this thread on and off, and didn't want to weigh > in, but I will... > I think that we can go too far in either direction. We can be the > person who does think they are amazing because they are blind and can > walk. Or you can be the person who will always shrug off a compliment, > because they think that the only reason they are getting it is because > they are blind, and they believe that they are the definition of > average. > My approach is being balanced. Perhaps this is because I know I have > overcome quite a number of challenges in life, very few of which had > anything to do with my blindness. Perhaps because I had a mother who > never ever allowed my blindness to be neither a hindrance nor an > advantage. She was very clear that yes I was blind, so what? And so > that became ingrained in my psyche, to the point where my disability > was never really a source of psychological distress. Yes, I did have > the question of how I would be successful, and if I was the only blind > person who had dreams and aspirations. And how I might make those > dreams and aspirations come true when so many people clearly thought I > shouldn’t even be able to tie my shoelaces. And yes, it wasn’t until I > met blind role models, that I knew that not only could I make my > dreams come true, but that others had overcome the challenges that > misconceptions present. In my case, I set out to prove the world > wrong, and became an overachiever. People who are overachievers > usually have an underlying reason for always wanting to come out on > top, for me it was that I was blind. For other teens it might be > insecurities about their looks, their popularity etc. > As an adult I am fully aware that in order to be successful and to be > taken seriously as a blind person, one must work very hard and always > prove themselves. This is because of the misconceptions of the world. > It is unrealistic to pretend that just any average blind person can > become a manager in the work place. Discrimination does exist, whether > it is based on gender, race, sexual orientation or disability. And the > sad truth is that when a person sees me walking with my white cane, > many of them cannot begin to imagine how I could possibly be ok, and > that it is their responsibility for them to help me, after all I am > disadvantaged, they are not. > Thus, I know it is my responsibility to educate each of those people > wrong. It is my responsibility to prove the nay sayers, who go beyond, > oh she’s disadvantaged, to she can’t do it because she’s blind, > therefore she must be lacking in some essential way. But it is also my > responsibility to myself to recognize my accomplishment and savor my > achievements. It is my responsibility to myself to build healthy, > mutually respectful relationships, in which I am secure in the > knowledge that that person and I understand each other, and that we > see each other for the person for who we are as opposed to some random > trait we possess. And when that person says, you have done a great > job, that you gone above and beyond what I expected, I can recognize > that it isn’t because they are being condescending but rather because > they have held me to the standard to which they hold everyone else. It > is important to find these types of relationships both professionally > and personally. We want someone to tell us when we are lacking, but > also to tell us when we rocked something. I am fortunate to work in a > place where I know all of my coworkers and superiors are holding me to > the standard to which they hold every other employee. And while it is > my instinct to dismiss a compliment from anyone, I’m learning to take > them and say thank you. It’s important to learn these ladies and > gentlemen, because if we do not give ourselves credit for the things > we do, and the accomplishments we achieve, there is no point to them. > I think the key is in having a high standard for yourself, not > compromising that standard, and knowing when you just have to ignore > the people I the street who say silly things like, wow you match. But > also when to pay attention to people who see beyond your disability > and are speaking of your character. > > > On 5/30/13, Helga wrote: >> Hey Miso, this is Helga! I just wantded to tell you that I'm a Christian >> as >> >> well!, and I think that you are definitely right! when you say that God >> has >> >> a purpose. I actually believe that God has a purpose for everyone even if >> they are blind or not. I'm actually blind, and I'm studying in college in >> order to become a Lawyer. By The way, just to let you know, I just became >> blind 5 years ago, but I didn't let this circumstance stop me in order to >> accomplish my goals. Thanks! for listening to me, and God bless! hope to >> talk to you soon! :) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Miso Kwak >> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:21 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> I attended school for the blind in Korea for 10 years and teachers >> often said we have to work twice or even triple times hard. I denied >> that saying but now while I don't necessarily agree, I would say it >> takes more time and energy in some things we we were to accomplish. >> Looking at my friends who have gone to colleges in Korea they might >> agree with this saying because they always have to fight for books and >> just less informed public in general. >> I believe work ethic comes because of the environment not just being >> blind it self. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: justin >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> >> Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:11 am >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't >> say >> it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of >> work >> ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is >> what >> it is. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie >> McGinnity >> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >> >> Hi all, >> >> I received an email a few days before the ceremony saying that the >> president >> wanted to identify some of the honors students in her speech. I >> sincerely >> thought that was the end of it, and I said yes because I knew my parents >> would be happy. >> >> I agree with you Arielle. Resilience isn't a personality trait we >> possess. >> We choose to be resilient--and this applies to sighted people as well. >> The >> difference in our case is that it seems more obvious. I think we >> display >> this form of resilience when we choose to answer random questions from >> strangers when we would rather be minding our own business. It is >> educating. I don't think that this makes us special or amazing though. >> Most of us are used to educating people and dealing with their >> ignorance. >> It's just something we do. >> >> I am torn about the idea that blind people have to work twice as hard. >> I'm not denying that it is true, but do we really want our blind >> children >> thinking that they need to work twice as hard to get anything >> accomplished? >> Maybe the answer is yes. But I'm not convinced. >> >> On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >>> I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing >> despite >>> learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. >> However, >>> because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal >>> as a blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put >>> it down to an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill >>> set is impressive, a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't >> see, >> so I have to do >>> something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use >> the >>> fact >>> that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, >>> but once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them >>> together, wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing >>> comments as possible; I hate those, even when I may have done >>> something that could be considered amazing, probably because I have >>> gotten it too often and it's gotten annoying. For example, I was >>> somewhat annoyed in high school when I was presented with the heart >>> award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He meant well, and I was >>> not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think that he gave that to >>> me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done an interview >>> for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high school >>> which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my >>> blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in >>> college when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have >> been >>> the state champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would >>> have tried to leave the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would >>> have been included. I would only use blindness to show the skills of >>> adaptation which may be a moment of inspiration, a shot in the arm, >> or >>> a spark for someone who needs it. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted >> athletes. >>> Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille >> and >>> canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a >>> sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >>>> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your >>>> intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. >>>> I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say >>>> that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for >> blindness >>>> is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of >>>> accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that >>>> to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little >>> better than average. >>>> Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us >>>> like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked >>>> across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and >>>> degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your >>>> back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your >>>> accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as >>>> long as you control the situation with your own personal power and >>>> not let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. >>>> Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso >>>> Kwak >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered >>>> about this for so many times... >>>> Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. >>>> Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the >>>> field carrying class flag. >>>> This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us >>>> she said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles >> and >>>> can represent the class well." >>>> It was surprising rather than offensive... >>>> I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind >>>> student but I am not sure if I represent the class. >>>> My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and >>>> just personal struggles throughout high school until this year when >>>> he made a positive turn-around. >>>> It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. >>>> Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. >>>> It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not >>>> but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for >>>> teens who may be struggling with life. >>>> You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life >>>> could give a positive outlook for others. >>>> I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my >>>> blindness. >>>> Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind >>>> people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. >>>> (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write >>>> in >>>> pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and >>>> "inspirational" >>>> If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind >>>> pole-vaulters in the list. >>>> Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming >>>> others' >>>> doubts? >>>> Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating >> emails >>>> by topics. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should >>>> have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at >> the >>>> ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and >>>> also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose >>>> between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose >>>> blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize >>>> those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. >>>> >>>> I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the >>>> environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility >>>> etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a >>>> personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be >> resilient >>>> than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to >>>> whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing >>>> what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and >> desires. >>>> When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been >>>> challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were >>>> eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who >>>> both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and >>>> the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and >>>> from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning >>>> my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when >> people >>>> who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than >> for >>>> somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to >>>> work full-time while going to school, for example. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, >>>>> I am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >>>>> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >>>>> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations >> of >>>>> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >>>>> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >>>>> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >>>>> >>>>> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >>>>> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >>>>> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >>>>> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >>>>> >>>>> Just some thoughts, >>>>> Danielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>>>>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>>>>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>>>>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>>>>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>>>>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle >>>>>> many of the challenges we face >>>> as >>>>>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>>>>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations >> and >>>>>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are >>>>>> nonetheless challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, >>>>>> and self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted >> people >>>>>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>>>>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>>>>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer >>>> of >>>>>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>>>>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>>>>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>>>>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>>>>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>>>>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the >>>>>> label >>> of "amazing" >>>>>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale >>>> probably >>>>>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>>>>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking >> around >>>>>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>>>>> >>>>>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general >>>> public, >>>>>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I >>>> do >>>>>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>>>>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>>>>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>>>>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me >>>>>> on being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but >>>>>> because I do >>>> not >>>>>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>>>>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>>>>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>>>>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>>>>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>>>>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>>>>> willing and able, >>>> but >>>>>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I >>>>>> know we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite >>>>>> (albeit >>>>>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>>>>> aggressive and confrontational. >>>>>> >>>>>> Katie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>>>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>>>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>>>>> that >>>> this >>>>>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was >>>> about >>>>>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind >>>> person. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president >>>> was >>>>>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned >>>> people >>>>>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>>>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>>>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree >>>> online >>>>>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a >>>>>>> girl who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her >>>>>>> education. I felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the >>>>>>> rare double major with a music major, but do I deserve to be >>>>>>> compared to those people who faced such real hardships? I don't >>>>>>> think so. Like Arielle, >>>> I've >>>>>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>>>>> were given to me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about >>>> resilence >>>>>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>>>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>>>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>>>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>>>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. >>>> I >>>>>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>>>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>>>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us >> a >>>>>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it >>>> all >>>>>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>>>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are >>>>>>> amazing, but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on >> life. >>>>>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting >> discussion! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing >>>> when >>>>>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit >>>>>>>> that anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a >>>>>>>> skill set which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little >>>>>>>> beyond ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I >> think >>>>>>>> they are >>> amazing. >>>>>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>>>>> something that >>>> everyone >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person >>>>>>>> to assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are >>>>>>>> "amazing for a >>>> blind >>>>>>>> man." >>>>>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some >> of >>>>>>>> them I >>>> don't. >>>>>>>> After >>>>>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where >>>> it >>>>>>>> goes, >>>>>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. >>>> Other >>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a >> joke. >>>> It >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a >>>> human >>>>>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely >>>> nothing. >>>>>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>> melissa >>>>>>>> Green >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would >>>> want to >>>>>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>>>>> the school. >>>>>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like >>>> everyone >>>>>>>> else. >>>>>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely >> independent. >>>>>>>> No relying on others. >>>>>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>>>>> But I won't. >>>>>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made >>>> over >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, >>>>>>>> as well as put >>>> a >>>>>>>> cap >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> gown on her. >>>>>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>>>>> That is what I did. >>>>>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa >>>>>>>> R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells >>>> me I >>>>>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like >>>>>>>> it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of >>>>>>>> that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a >>>>>>>> blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind >>>>>>>> people, >>>> even >>>>>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being >>>> told >>>>>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, >>>>>>>> because I >>>> don't >>>>>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life >>>>>>>> has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I >>>>>>>> feel >>>> they >>>>>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about >>>> me, >>>>>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough >>>>>>>> on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard >> to >>>>>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly >>>>>>>> amazing vs. >>>> just >>>>>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an >>>> inspiration >>>>>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled >>>> with >>>>>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. >>>> When >>>>>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I >> grew >>>>>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but >>>>>>>> probably not >>>> to >>>>>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down >> some >>>>>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with >> sighted >>>>>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in >>>> our >>>>>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked >>>>>>>> me >>>> to >>>>>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only >> was >>>>>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I >>>> eventually >>>>>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, >>>> but >>>>>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or >>>> poetry >>>>>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing >>>> was >>>>>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>>>>> writing >>>> before I >>>>>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made >>>>>>>> me >>>> out >>>>>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to >>>> resent >>>>>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same >>>>>>>> time. >>>> But >>>>>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one >>>> hand, >>>>>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be >>>>>>>> an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, >>>>>>>> held >>>> to >>>>>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about >>>> my >>>>>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the >>>> crowd >>>>>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>>>>> boys) instead. >>>>>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" >>>> failed my >>>>>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were >>>> some >>>>>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like >>>> answering >>>>>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>>>>> level, >>>> I >>>>>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was >>>>>>>> a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always >> an >>>>>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my >>>> algebra >>>>>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his >>>>>>>> class >>>> at >>>>>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with >>>> my >>>>>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I >>>>>>>> wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so >>>>>>>> perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I >>>>>>>> wasn't amazing, >>>> I >>>>>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best >> I >>>>>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as >>>> damaging >>>>>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying >>>>>>>> to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be >>>>>>>> forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class >>>>>>>> citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to >>>>>>>> achieve at, and >>>> we >>>>>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted >>>> folks >>>>>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>>>>> weaknesses. >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. >>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >>>> 4 >>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Julie McG >>>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding >>>>>>> Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that >>>>>>> he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may >> not >>>>>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>>>>> John 3:16 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >>>> i >>>> l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. >>>> com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>> com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.co >>>> m >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >>>> 4 >>>> 0gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>> 0gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >> Federation >> of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of >> Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >> "For >> God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who >> believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > — > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu May 30 21:47:32 2013 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:47:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2FA3419D-10C1-478F-8199-C0823B1DFD58@gmail.com> Hi all, I do agree with Arielle that blindness presents different practical challenges for different people. Generally speaking, if you have good blindness skills and have had more training, you become very efficient, and blindness does not usually factor into your life and preventing you from doing anything. And this is as it should be. Blindness should never be a consideration on whether you should or shouldn't do something or whether you can or can't do something. However, I do stand by my view that as a blind person I must excel. If I am applying for a job, and if the employer is prejudiced against disabilities, and if my application is the exact same as my cited competitor, there is a realistic chance that the employer will lean towards the cited competitor because it is easier to just hire them. You don't have to make any accommodations. It's my personal believe that if I want to achieve my career goals, which are admittedly fairly high for anyone, I must show that I can bring something to the table that no one else can, and hope that This fact will override somebody's prejudice. It is true that anybody who wants to get ahead must bring something original to the table. But it is also true that there are very real cases where it is a blind person is more qualified, and there's a sighted person who was less qualified the Cited person might still get the job. It is not unlike the plight that any minority faces. If there is a woman who is very qualified for the job, but the employer wants the man for the job Because it is they are believed that women should stay at home and mentioned work,they might hire the man instead of the woman. So I think it follows logically, that in someway we must prove that we XL beyond a reasonable doubt, and hope that that will override prejudice. In essence, the burden of proof for a class that tends to be misunderstood by society, must demonstrate to society Beyond a reasonable doubt that The mold Society Created for them, does not fit. And that the mold, not the class, must be re-created. I think that this is what we mean when we say that the biggest challenge that blindness presents is not blindness itself but the misconceptions. And until those misconceptions are effaced from our society, I do believe that in order to achieve high levels of success, we often have to prove ourselves not just good enough, but better beyond a reasonable doubt. Mary F from my iPhone On May 30, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > I don't think that all of us always have to work twice as hard to get > things done. I do think that sometimes, some of us have to work harder > because of blindness, but it doesn't apply equally to all of us all > the time. For example, when I was an undergrad student, I did have to > do some extra work to hunt down accessible textbooks and gain access > to visual online materials, like gene maps for my genetics class. Now > that I am in grad school, however, textbooks are rarely used and > electronic copies of articles are readily furnished to all students. > So, in grad school, blindness has little impact on my overall > workload. Other times, extra work has allowed me to get ahead. In > middle school we were often given vocab assignments which involved > writing down definitions from the book's glossary. Since the glossary > was several volumes in Braille, this was very inefficient for me. > However, I soon discovered it was actually much quicker to just (gasp) > read the chapter and learn the vocab words that way instead of looking > up definitions. This was a little extra work on the front end, but it > had the advantage that when the other students were assigned to read > the chapter, I'd already finished that and could move on. > I do think some of us face substantial obstacles related to blindness. > On closer examination these obstacles usually have more to do with > social prejudices than with blindness itself. For example, blind kids > who aren't taught Braille until later in life do face challenges with > reading, writing, test-taking etc. That's not because of blindness, > but because of unfavorable social attitudes toward Braille. For others > blindness could interact with something else--financial problems, or a > bad home life--to create legitimate obstacles. What I don't like is > when people assume I have these challenges without knowing anything > about me except that I am blind. The challenges of blindness, or lack > thereof, are different for every person and the same person could > experience different levels of challenge at different points in time. > Too often these nuances aren't recognized by the sighted public. > Instead, anything a blind person achieves must have been very > difficult and only achieved because the blind person is exceptional. > I can also relate to Mary's comments about becoming an overachiever > due to blindness. In my own case it was because as the youngest child, > blind and also physically tiny, I think I was babied a lot by family > members and others in my life. I was driven to excel in school in > order to compensate for the inferior and infantilizing way I was often > treated. I don't think this reaction is a bad one as long as the > person doesn't become so perfectionistic that failure becomes > intolerable. > > Arielle > > On 5/30/13, Mary Fernandez wrote: >> Dear all, >> I've been following this thread on and off, and didn't want to weigh >> in, but I will... >> I think that we can go too far in either direction. We can be the >> person who does think they are amazing because they are blind and can >> walk. Or you can be the person who will always shrug off a compliment, >> because they think that the only reason they are getting it is because >> they are blind, and they believe that they are the definition of >> average. >> My approach is being balanced. Perhaps this is because I know I have >> overcome quite a number of challenges in life, very few of which had >> anything to do with my blindness. Perhaps because I had a mother who >> never ever allowed my blindness to be neither a hindrance nor an >> advantage. She was very clear that yes I was blind, so what? And so >> that became ingrained in my psyche, to the point where my disability >> was never really a source of psychological distress. Yes, I did have >> the question of how I would be successful, and if I was the only blind >> person who had dreams and aspirations. And how I might make those >> dreams and aspirations come true when so many people clearly thought I >> shouldn’t even be able to tie my shoelaces. And yes, it wasn’t until I >> met blind role models, that I knew that not only could I make my >> dreams come true, but that others had overcome the challenges that >> misconceptions present. In my case, I set out to prove the world >> wrong, and became an overachiever. People who are overachievers >> usually have an underlying reason for always wanting to come out on >> top, for me it was that I was blind. For other teens it might be >> insecurities about their looks, their popularity etc. >> As an adult I am fully aware that in order to be successful and to be >> taken seriously as a blind person, one must work very hard and always >> prove themselves. This is because of the misconceptions of the world. >> It is unrealistic to pretend that just any average blind person can >> become a manager in the work place. Discrimination does exist, whether >> it is based on gender, race, sexual orientation or disability. And the >> sad truth is that when a person sees me walking with my white cane, >> many of them cannot begin to imagine how I could possibly be ok, and >> that it is their responsibility for them to help me, after all I am >> disadvantaged, they are not. >> Thus, I know it is my responsibility to educate each of those people >> wrong. It is my responsibility to prove the nay sayers, who go beyond, >> oh she’s disadvantaged, to she can’t do it because she’s blind, >> therefore she must be lacking in some essential way. But it is also my >> responsibility to myself to recognize my accomplishment and savor my >> achievements. It is my responsibility to myself to build healthy, >> mutually respectful relationships, in which I am secure in the >> knowledge that that person and I understand each other, and that we >> see each other for the person for who we are as opposed to some random >> trait we possess. And when that person says, you have done a great >> job, that you gone above and beyond what I expected, I can recognize >> that it isn’t because they are being condescending but rather because >> they have held me to the standard to which they hold everyone else. It >> is important to find these types of relationships both professionally >> and personally. We want someone to tell us when we are lacking, but >> also to tell us when we rocked something. I am fortunate to work in a >> place where I know all of my coworkers and superiors are holding me to >> the standard to which they hold every other employee. And while it is >> my instinct to dismiss a compliment from anyone, I’m learning to take >> them and say thank you. It’s important to learn these ladies and >> gentlemen, because if we do not give ourselves credit for the things >> we do, and the accomplishments we achieve, there is no point to them. >> I think the key is in having a high standard for yourself, not >> compromising that standard, and knowing when you just have to ignore >> the people I the street who say silly things like, wow you match. But >> also when to pay attention to people who see beyond your disability >> and are speaking of your character. >> >> >> On 5/30/13, Helga wrote: >>> Hey Miso, this is Helga! I just wantded to tell you that I'm a Christian >>> as >>> >>> well!, and I think that you are definitely right! when you say that God >>> has >>> >>> a purpose. I actually believe that God has a purpose for everyone even if >>> they are blind or not. I'm actually blind, and I'm studying in college in >>> order to become a Lawyer. By The way, just to let you know, I just became >>> blind 5 years ago, but I didn't let this circumstance stop me in order to >>> accomplish my goals. Thanks! for listening to me, and God bless! hope to >>> talk to you soon! :) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Miso Kwak >>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:21 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> I attended school for the blind in Korea for 10 years and teachers >>> often said we have to work twice or even triple times hard. I denied >>> that saying but now while I don't necessarily agree, I would say it >>> takes more time and energy in some things we we were to accomplish. >>> Looking at my friends who have gone to colleges in Korea they might >>> agree with this saying because they always have to fight for books and >>> just less informed public in general. >>> I believe work ethic comes because of the environment not just being >>> blind it self. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: justin >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> >>> Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:11 am >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't >>> say >>> it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of >>> work >>> ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is >>> what >>> it is. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie >>> McGinnity >>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I received an email a few days before the ceremony saying that the >>> president >>> wanted to identify some of the honors students in her speech. I >>> sincerely >>> thought that was the end of it, and I said yes because I knew my parents >>> would be happy. >>> >>> I agree with you Arielle. Resilience isn't a personality trait we >>> possess. >>> We choose to be resilient--and this applies to sighted people as well. >>> The >>> difference in our case is that it seems more obvious. I think we >>> display >>> this form of resilience when we choose to answer random questions from >>> strangers when we would rather be minding our own business. It is >>> educating. I don't think that this makes us special or amazing though. >>> Most of us are used to educating people and dealing with their >>> ignorance. >>> It's just something we do. >>> >>> I am torn about the idea that blind people have to work twice as hard. >>> I'm not denying that it is true, but do we really want our blind >>> children >>> thinking that they need to work twice as hard to get anything >>> accomplished? >>> Maybe the answer is yes. But I'm not convinced. >>> >>> On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >>>> I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing >>> despite >>>> learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. >>> However, >>>> because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal >>>> as a blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put >>>> it down to an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill >>>> set is impressive, a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't >>> see, >>> so I have to do >>>> something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use >>> the >>>> fact >>>> that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, >>>> but once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them >>>> together, wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing >>>> comments as possible; I hate those, even when I may have done >>>> something that could be considered amazing, probably because I have >>>> gotten it too often and it's gotten annoying. For example, I was >>>> somewhat annoyed in high school when I was presented with the heart >>>> award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He meant well, and I was >>>> not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think that he gave that to >>>> me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done an interview >>>> for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high school >>>> which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my >>>> blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in >>>> college when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have >>> been >>>> the state champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would >>>> have tried to leave the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would >>>> have been included. I would only use blindness to show the skills of >>>> adaptation which may be a moment of inspiration, a shot in the arm, >>> or >>>> a spark for someone who needs it. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >>>> Silverman >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted >>> athletes. >>>> Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille >>> and >>>> canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a >>>> sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >>>>> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your >>>>> intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. >>>>> I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say >>>>> that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for >>> blindness >>>>> is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of >>>>> accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that >>>>> to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little >>>> better than average. >>>>> Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us >>>>> like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked >>>>> across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and >>>>> degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your >>>>> back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your >>>>> accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as >>>>> long as you control the situation with your own personal power and >>>>> not let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. >>>>> Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso >>>>> Kwak >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered >>>>> about this for so many times... >>>>> Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. >>>>> Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the >>>>> field carrying class flag. >>>>> This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us >>>>> she said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles >>> and >>>>> can represent the class well." >>>>> It was surprising rather than offensive... >>>>> I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind >>>>> student but I am not sure if I represent the class. >>>>> My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and >>>>> just personal struggles throughout high school until this year when >>>>> he made a positive turn-around. >>>>> It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. >>>>> Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. >>>>> It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not >>>>> but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for >>>>> teens who may be struggling with life. >>>>> You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life >>>>> could give a positive outlook for others. >>>>> I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my >>>>> blindness. >>>>> Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind >>>>> people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. >>>>> (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write >>>>> in >>>>> pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and >>>>> "inspirational" >>>>> If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind >>>>> pole-vaulters in the list. >>>>> Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming >>>>> others' >>>>> doubts? >>>>> Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating >>> emails >>>>> by topics. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should >>>>> have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at >>> the >>>>> ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and >>>>> also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose >>>>> between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose >>>>> blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize >>>>> those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. >>>>> >>>>> I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the >>>>> environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility >>>>> etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a >>>>> personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be >>> resilient >>>>> than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to >>>>> whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing >>>>> what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and >>> desires. >>>>> When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been >>>>> challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were >>>>> eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who >>>>> both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and >>>>> the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and >>>>> from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning >>>>> my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when >>> people >>>>> who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than >>> for >>>>> somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to >>>>> work full-time while going to school, for example. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, >>>>>> I am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >>>>>> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >>>>>> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations >>> of >>>>>> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >>>>>> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >>>>>> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >>>>>> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >>>>>> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >>>>>> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some thoughts, >>>>>> Danielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>>>>>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>>>>>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>>>>>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>>>>>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>>>>>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle >>>>>>> many of the challenges we face >>>>> as >>>>>>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>>>>>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations >>> and >>>>>>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are >>>>>>> nonetheless challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, >>>>>>> and self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted >>> people >>>>>>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>>>>>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>>>>>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer >>>>> of >>>>>>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>>>>>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>>>>>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>>>>>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>>>>>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>>>>>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the >>>>>>> label >>>> of "amazing" >>>>>>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale >>>>> probably >>>>>>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>>>>>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking >>> around >>>>>>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general >>>>> public, >>>>>>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I >>>>> do >>>>>>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>>>>>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>>>>>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>>>>>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me >>>>>>> on being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but >>>>>>> because I do >>>>> not >>>>>>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>>>>>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>>>>>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>>>>>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>>>>>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>>>>>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>>>>>> willing and able, >>>>> but >>>>>>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I >>>>>>> know we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite >>>>>>> (albeit >>>>>>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>>>>>> aggressive and confrontational. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Katie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>>>>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>>>>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>>>>>> that >>>>> this >>>>>>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was >>>>> about >>>>>>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind >>>>> person. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president >>>>> was >>>>>>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned >>>>> people >>>>>>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>>>>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>>>>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree >>>>> online >>>>>>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a >>>>>>>> girl who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her >>>>>>>> education. I felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the >>>>>>>> rare double major with a music major, but do I deserve to be >>>>>>>> compared to those people who faced such real hardships? I don't >>>>>>>> think so. Like Arielle, >>>>> I've >>>>>>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>>>>>> were given to me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about >>>>> resilence >>>>>>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>>>>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>>>>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>>>>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>>>>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. >>>>> I >>>>>>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>>>>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>>>>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us >>> a >>>>>>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it >>>>> all >>>>>>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>>>>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are >>>>>>>> amazing, but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on >>> life. >>>>>>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting >>> discussion! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>>>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing >>>>> when >>>>>>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit >>>>>>>>> that anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a >>>>>>>>> skill set which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little >>>>>>>>> beyond ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I >>> think >>>>>>>>> they are >>>> amazing. >>>>>>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>>>>>> something that >>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person >>>>>>>>> to assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are >>>>>>>>> "amazing for a >>>>> blind >>>>>>>>> man." >>>>>>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>>>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some >>> of >>>>>>>>> them I >>>>> don't. >>>>>>>>> After >>>>>>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where >>>>> it >>>>>>>>> goes, >>>>>>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. >>>>> Other >>>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a >>> joke. >>>>> It >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a >>>>> human >>>>>>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely >>>>> nothing. >>>>>>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> melissa >>>>>>>>> Green >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would >>>>> want to >>>>>>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>>>>>> the school. >>>>>>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like >>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>> else. >>>>>>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>>>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>>>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely >>> independent. >>>>>>>>> No relying on others. >>>>>>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>>>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>>>>>> But I won't. >>>>>>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made >>>>> over >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>>>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>>>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, >>>>>>>>> as well as put >>>>> a >>>>>>>>> cap >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> gown on her. >>>>>>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>>>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>>>>>> That is what I did. >>>>>>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>>>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>>>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa >>>>>>>>> R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>>>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells >>>>> me I >>>>>>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like >>>>>>>>> it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of >>>>>>>>> that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a >>>>>>>>> blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind >>>>>>>>> people, >>>>> even >>>>>>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being >>>>> told >>>>>>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>>>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, >>>>>>>>> because I >>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>>>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life >>>>>>>>> has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I >>>>>>>>> feel >>>>> they >>>>>>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about >>>>> me, >>>>>>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>>>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough >>>>>>>>> on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard >>> to >>>>>>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly >>>>>>>>> amazing vs. >>>>> just >>>>>>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an >>>>> inspiration >>>>>>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled >>>>> with >>>>>>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>>>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>>>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. >>>>> When >>>>>>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>>>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I >>> grew >>>>>>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>>>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but >>>>>>>>> probably not >>>>> to >>>>>>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down >>> some >>>>>>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with >>> sighted >>>>>>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>>>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in >>>>> our >>>>>>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>>>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked >>>>>>>>> me >>>>> to >>>>>>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>>>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only >>> was >>>>>>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I >>>>> eventually >>>>>>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, >>>>> but >>>>>>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or >>>>> poetry >>>>>>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing >>>>> was >>>>>>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>>>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>>>>>> writing >>>>> before I >>>>>>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made >>>>>>>>> me >>>>> out >>>>>>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to >>>>> resent >>>>>>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>>>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same >>>>>>>>> time. >>>>> But >>>>>>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one >>>>> hand, >>>>>>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be >>>>>>>>> an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, >>>>>>>>> held >>>>> to >>>>>>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>>>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about >>>>> my >>>>>>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the >>>>> crowd >>>>>>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>>>>>> boys) instead. >>>>>>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" >>>>> failed my >>>>>>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were >>>>> some >>>>>>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like >>>>> answering >>>>>>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>>>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>>>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>>>>>> level, >>>>> I >>>>>>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was >>>>>>>>> a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always >>> an >>>>>>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my >>>>> algebra >>>>>>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his >>>>>>>>> class >>>>> at >>>>>>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with >>>>> my >>>>>>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I >>>>>>>>> wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so >>>>>>>>> perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I >>>>>>>>> wasn't amazing, >>>>> I >>>>>>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best >>> I >>>>>>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>>>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>>>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as >>>>> damaging >>>>>>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying >>>>>>>>> to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be >>>>>>>>> forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class >>>>>>>>> citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to >>>>>>>>> achieve at, and >>>>> we >>>>>>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>>>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted >>>>> folks >>>>>>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>>>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>>>>>> weaknesses. >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >>>>> 4 >>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Julie McG >>>>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding >>>>>>>> Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that >>>>>>>> he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may >>> not >>>>>>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>>>>>> John 3:16 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >>>>> i >>>>> l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >>>>> 4 >>>>> 0gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>> 0gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >>>> com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>> Federation >>> of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of >>> Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >>> "For >>> God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who >>> believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." >>> John 3:16 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org >>> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them >> feel." >> — >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu May 30 23:05:43 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 19:05:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <2FA3419D-10C1-478F-8199-C0823B1DFD58@gmail.com> References: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com><8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> <2FA3419D-10C1-478F-8199-C0823B1DFD58@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1100B95D3E2647DEBA6D84310403F781@OwnerPC> Hello Mary, Excellent Post. I agree with you! Like you and Arielle, I have driven to be an over achiever in academics and when I say that I don't just mean studying in school; I mean overall being academically stimulated by reading extra books, watching documentaries and reading academic type magazines or websites that a literate educated person would read. I mean things like newspapers, Time magazine, Washingtonian to keep abreast of the happenings in my culturally diverse area and National geographic. I feel this way because it broadens my worldview; since I cannot see what is out in the world or observe other cultural practices, reading about it or having it described via a documentary helps me understand the world. Also I feel like proving that I am smart and not the dumb stereotypical legally blind person. I also agree with you that to get a job we have to be better than our sighted prospective employees and excel in some areas to overcome predjudice while convincing them we bring something unique to the table. As to being amazing, I often don't say anything but thanks as I do not feel like explaining why I'm not amazing. But sometimes I do feel the comments are warranted. We should not be praised for ordinary tasks, but doing something well and succeeding does justify praise and we should accept those compliments. I've gotten many positive compliments from professors and generally, I think they are well meant because I did a good job and they know I'm a dedicated student where as most put a half effort into the assignment or don't even go to all classes. So, when we get compliments, sometimes they are warranted. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Mary Fernandez Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People Hi all, I do agree with Arielle that blindness presents different practical challenges for different people. Generally speaking, if you have good blindness skills and have had more training, you become very efficient, and blindness does not usually factor into your life and preventing you from doing anything. And this is as it should be. Blindness should never be a consideration on whether you should or shouldn't do something or whether you can or can't do something. However, I do stand by my view that as a blind person I must excel. If I am applying for a job, and if the employer is prejudiced against disabilities, and if my application is the exact same as my cited competitor, there is a realistic chance that the employer will lean towards the cited competitor because it is easier to just hire them. You don't have to make any accommodations. It's my personal believe that if I want to achieve my career goals, which are admittedly fairly high for anyone, I must show that I can bring something to the table that no one else can, and hope that This fact will override somebody's prejudice. It is true that anybody who wants to get ahead must bring something original to the table. But it is also true that there are very real cases where it is a blind person is more qualified, and there's a sighted person who was less qualified the Cited person might still get the job. It is not unlike the plight that any minority faces. If there is a woman who is very qualified for the job, but the employer wants the man for the job Because it is they are believed that women should stay at home and mentioned work,they might hire the man instead of the woman. So I think it follows logically, that in someway we must prove that we XL beyond a reasonable doubt, and hope that that will override prejudice. In essence, the burden of proof for a class that tends to be misunderstood by society, must demonstrate to society Beyond a reasonable doubt that The mold Society Created for them, does not fit. And that the mold, not the class, must be re-created. I think that this is what we mean when we say that the biggest challenge that blindness presents is not blindness itself but the misconceptions. And until those misconceptions are effaced from our society, I do believe that in order to achieve high levels of success, we often have to prove ourselves not just good enough, but better beyond a reasonable doubt. Mary F from my iPhone On May 30, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > I don't think that all of us always have to work twice as hard to get > things done. I do think that sometimes, some of us have to work harder > because of blindness, but it doesn't apply equally to all of us all > the time. For example, when I was an undergrad student, I did have to > do some extra work to hunt down accessible textbooks and gain access > to visual online materials, like gene maps for my genetics class. Now > that I am in grad school, however, textbooks are rarely used and > electronic copies of articles are readily furnished to all students. > So, in grad school, blindness has little impact on my overall > workload. Other times, extra work has allowed me to get ahead. In > middle school we were often given vocab assignments which involved > writing down definitions from the book's glossary. Since the glossary > was several volumes in Braille, this was very inefficient for me. > However, I soon discovered it was actually much quicker to just (gasp) > read the chapter and learn the vocab words that way instead of looking > up definitions. This was a little extra work on the front end, but it > had the advantage that when the other students were assigned to read > the chapter, I'd already finished that and could move on. > I do think some of us face substantial obstacles related to blindness. > On closer examination these obstacles usually have more to do with > social prejudices than with blindness itself. For example, blind kids > who aren't taught Braille until later in life do face challenges with > reading, writing, test-taking etc. That's not because of blindness, > but because of unfavorable social attitudes toward Braille. For others > blindness could interact with something else--financial problems, or a > bad home life--to create legitimate obstacles. What I don't like is > when people assume I have these challenges without knowing anything > about me except that I am blind. The challenges of blindness, or lack > thereof, are different for every person and the same person could > experience different levels of challenge at different points in time. > Too often these nuances aren't recognized by the sighted public. > Instead, anything a blind person achieves must have been very > difficult and only achieved because the blind person is exceptional. > I can also relate to Mary's comments about becoming an overachiever > due to blindness. In my own case it was because as the youngest child, > blind and also physically tiny, I think I was babied a lot by family > members and others in my life. I was driven to excel in school in > order to compensate for the inferior and infantilizing way I was often > treated. I don't think this reaction is a bad one as long as the > person doesn't become so perfectionistic that failure becomes > intolerable. > > Arielle > > On 5/30/13, Mary Fernandez wrote: >> Dear all, >> I've been following this thread on and off, and didn't want to weigh >> in, but I will... >> I think that we can go too far in either direction. We can be the >> person who does think they are amazing because they are blind and can >> walk. Or you can be the person who will always shrug off a compliment, >> because they think that the only reason they are getting it is because >> they are blind, and they believe that they are the definition of >> average. >> My approach is being balanced. Perhaps this is because I know I have >> overcome quite a number of challenges in life, very few of which had >> anything to do with my blindness. Perhaps because I had a mother who >> never ever allowed my blindness to be neither a hindrance nor an >> advantage. She was very clear that yes I was blind, so what? And so >> that became ingrained in my psyche, to the point where my disability >> was never really a source of psychological distress. Yes, I did have >> the question of how I would be successful, and if I was the only blind >> person who had dreams and aspirations. And how I might make those >> dreams and aspirations come true when so many people clearly thought I >> shouldn’t even be able to tie my shoelaces. And yes, it wasn’t until I >> met blind role models, that I knew that not only could I make my >> dreams come true, but that others had overcome the challenges that >> misconceptions present. In my case, I set out to prove the world >> wrong, and became an overachiever. People who are overachievers >> usually have an underlying reason for always wanting to come out on >> top, for me it was that I was blind. For other teens it might be >> insecurities about their looks, their popularity etc. >> As an adult I am fully aware that in order to be successful and to be >> taken seriously as a blind person, one must work very hard and always >> prove themselves. This is because of the misconceptions of the world. >> It is unrealistic to pretend that just any average blind person can >> become a manager in the work place. Discrimination does exist, whether >> it is based on gender, race, sexual orientation or disability. And the >> sad truth is that when a person sees me walking with my white cane, >> many of them cannot begin to imagine how I could possibly be ok, and >> that it is their responsibility for them to help me, after all I am >> disadvantaged, they are not. >> Thus, I know it is my responsibility to educate each of those people >> wrong. It is my responsibility to prove the nay sayers, who go beyond, >> oh she’s disadvantaged, to she can’t do it because she’s blind, >> therefore she must be lacking in some essential way. But it is also my >> responsibility to myself to recognize my accomplishment and savor my >> achievements. It is my responsibility to myself to build healthy, >> mutually respectful relationships, in which I am secure in the >> knowledge that that person and I understand each other, and that we >> see each other for the person for who we are as opposed to some random >> trait we possess. And when that person says, you have done a great >> job, that you gone above and beyond what I expected, I can recognize >> that it isn’t because they are being condescending but rather because >> they have held me to the standard to which they hold everyone else. It >> is important to find these types of relationships both professionally >> and personally. We want someone to tell us when we are lacking, but >> also to tell us when we rocked something. I am fortunate to work in a >> place where I know all of my coworkers and superiors are holding me to >> the standard to which they hold every other employee. And while it is >> my instinct to dismiss a compliment from anyone, I’m learning to take >> them and say thank you. It’s important to learn these ladies and >> gentlemen, because if we do not give ourselves credit for the things >> we do, and the accomplishments we achieve, there is no point to them. >> I think the key is in having a high standard for yourself, not >> compromising that standard, and knowing when you just have to ignore >> the people I the street who say silly things like, wow you match. But >> also when to pay attention to people who see beyond your disability >> and are speaking of your character. >> >> >> On 5/30/13, Helga wrote: >>> Hey Miso, this is Helga! I just wantded to tell you that I'm a Christian >>> as >>> >>> well!, and I think that you are definitely right! when you say that God >>> has >>> >>> a purpose. I actually believe that God has a purpose for everyone even >>> if >>> they are blind or not. I'm actually blind, and I'm studying in college >>> in >>> order to become a Lawyer. By The way, just to let you know, I just >>> became >>> blind 5 years ago, but I didn't let this circumstance stop me in order >>> to >>> accomplish my goals. Thanks! for listening to me, and God bless! hope to >>> talk to you soon! :) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Miso Kwak >>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:21 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> I attended school for the blind in Korea for 10 years and teachers >>> often said we have to work twice or even triple times hard. I denied >>> that saying but now while I don't necessarily agree, I would say it >>> takes more time and energy in some things we we were to accomplish. >>> Looking at my friends who have gone to colleges in Korea they might >>> agree with this saying because they always have to fight for books and >>> just less informed public in general. >>> I believe work ethic comes because of the environment not just being >>> blind it self. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: justin >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> >>> Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:11 am >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't >>> say >>> it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of >>> work >>> ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is >>> what >>> it is. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie >>> McGinnity >>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I received an email a few days before the ceremony saying that the >>> president >>> wanted to identify some of the honors students in her speech. I >>> sincerely >>> thought that was the end of it, and I said yes because I knew my parents >>> would be happy. >>> >>> I agree with you Arielle. Resilience isn't a personality trait we >>> possess. >>> We choose to be resilient--and this applies to sighted people as well. >>> The >>> difference in our case is that it seems more obvious. I think we >>> display >>> this form of resilience when we choose to answer random questions from >>> strangers when we would rather be minding our own business. It is >>> educating. I don't think that this makes us special or amazing though. >>> Most of us are used to educating people and dealing with their >>> ignorance. >>> It's just something we do. >>> >>> I am torn about the idea that blind people have to work twice as hard. >>> I'm not denying that it is true, but do we really want our blind >>> children >>> thinking that they need to work twice as hard to get anything >>> accomplished? >>> Maybe the answer is yes. But I'm not convinced. >>> >>> On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >>>> I am a blind martial artist, and I have never called myself amazing >>> despite >>>> learning to strike without sight. There is a trick to that. >>> However, >>>> because the athlete is a champion, to many others achieving that goal >>>> as a blind person makes him seem more impressive. I would simply put >>>> it down to an ability to adapt in order to succeed. While the skill >>>> set is impressive, a champion is a champion disabled or not. I can't >>> see, >>> so I have to do >>>> something a little different. However, a champion athlete can use >>> the >>>> fact >>>> that he is blind to inspire others. I don't care for it much either, >>>> but once again, if you can serve the greater good by weaving them >>>> together, wouldn't you? Try to fight off as many of the amazing >>>> comments as possible; I hate those, even when I may have done >>>> something that could be considered amazing, probably because I have >>>> gotten it too often and it's gotten annoying. For example, I was >>>> somewhat annoyed in high school when I was presented with the heart >>>> award by my wrestling coach as a freshman. He meant well, and I was >>>> not angry at him, but I couldn't help but think that he gave that to >>>> me because I was a blind wrestler; I would not have done an interview >>>> for that. I also refused the interview proposed to me in high school >>>> which basically said, look at me; I am a good wrestler despite my >>>> blindness. I would have gladly done an interview years later in >>>> college when I broke our state powerlifting record. I would have >>> been >>>> the state champion power lifter who happened to be blind. I would >>>> have tried to leave the blind part out, but I'm sure that it would >>>> have been included. I would only use blindness to show the skills of >>>> adaptation which may be a moment of inspiration, a shot in the arm, >>> or >>>> a spark for someone who needs it. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >>>> Silverman >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:32 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> I don't think blind athletes are more impressive than sighted >>> athletes. >>>> Blind athletes use alternative techniques just like we use Braille >>> and >>>> canes to do other things. However, being a high-level champion at a >>>> sport is impressive whether the person is blind or sighted. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/28/13, justin wrote: >>>>> Not at all; if you have a way of displaying to the world your >>>>> intelligence and skill as a human, then that's great. >>>>> I can't speak for the others on this list, but I'm not trying to say >>>>> that having to use alternative techniques to compensate for >>> blindness >>>>> is something to completely disregard. Having to fight issues of >>>>> accessibility while doing the everyday things of life does mean that >>>>> to function on the same level of the sighted, we have to be a little >>>> better than average. >>>>> Without sight you have to be a little sharper. However, treating us >>>>> like we are oober special and the whole nine yards because we walked >>>>> across a room or are able to read and write; that's ridiculous and >>>>> degrading. Do your thing; if you can help someone, then I got your >>>>> back man. In certain contexts, using your blindness along with your >>>>> accomplishments can be a model of inspiration for people. Just as >>>>> long as you control the situation with your own personal power and >>>>> not let someone dictate where how your blindness angle is emphasized. >>>>> Tell them to just give you the ball and get out of your way. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso >>>>> Kwak >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:36 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> this is definitely another interesting thread for I have pondered >>>>> about this for so many times... >>>>> Reading Julie's mail definitely made me think about my graduation. >>>>> Each year principal chooses a student to lead the class on to the >>>>> field carrying class flag. >>>>> This year, she chose me and another student. When she announced us >>>>> she said "these students are students who have overcome obstacles >>> and >>>>> can represent the class well." >>>>> It was surprising rather than offensive... >>>>> I definitely have overcome obstacles as a foreign student and blind >>>>> student but I am not sure if I represent the class. >>>>> My partner had obstacles in a sense that he had family issues and >>>>> just personal struggles throughout high school until this year when >>>>> he made a positive turn-around. >>>>> It is definitely an honor. I just don't know whether I deserve it. >>>>> Also, I recently did an interview for an educational video. >>>>> It took more than a month for me to decide whether to do this or not >>>>> but I chose to do it because it could be a positive influence for >>>>> teens who may be struggling with life. >>>>> You may criticize me for my belief but I am grateful to know my life >>>>> could give a positive outlook for others. >>>>> I just hope it's done by my drive and passion and integrity not my >>>>> blindness. >>>>> Like mentioned previously it's wrong for someone to praise blind >>>>> people for being able to do simple tasks such as reading and writing. >>>>> (I usually say it's just my way of reading and writing as you write >>>>> in >>>>> pen) But there could be some things that are truly "amazing" and >>>>> "inspirational" >>>>> If any of you remember, I recently shared an article about blind >>>>> pole-vaulters in the list. >>>>> Aren't they amazing? for being truly great athletes and overcoming >>>>> others' >>>>> doubts? >>>>> Thanks for reading my long email. I just don't like separating >>> emails >>>>> by topics. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:15 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Julie, your experience at graduation sounds mortifying. He should >>>>> have at least asked your permission before he talked about you at >>> the >>>>> ceremony. I have been called inspirational by a homeless man, and >>>>> also by a man who was receiving kidney dialysis. If I had to choose >>>>> between blindness, kidney failure and homelessness I would choose >>>>> blindness any day, but I know that it's not up to me to characterize >>>>> those men's lives any more than they can characterize mine. >>>>> >>>>> I agree that we have to act resilient in order to deal with the >>>>> environmental barriers we face (negative attitudes, inaccessibility >>>>> etc.) However, I think of resilience as an action more than a >>>>> personality trait. I don't think we have more ability to be >>> resilient >>>>> than anyone else does. Human beings are hard-wired to adapt to >>>>> whatever situations they are in. As blind people we are simply doing >>>>> what we need to do in order to survive and fulfill our goals and >>> desires. >>>>> When I look at my own college experiences, there might have been >>>>> challenges I wouldn't have had if sighted. However, these were >>>>> eclipsed by all the help and support I received from my parents (who >>>>> both have advanced degrees), from the scholarship I was awarded and >>>>> the mentors I was assigned as part of that scholarship program, and >>>>> from my professors and friends. I honestly do not feel that earning >>>>> my double major was difficult. And so I find it insulting when >>> people >>>>> who don't know me at all assume it was more difficult for me than >>> for >>>>> somebody who is a first-generation college student, or who had to >>>>> work full-time while going to school, for example. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 5/29/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is definitely an interesting discussion. Like the rest of you, >>>>>> I am often told I am amazing for accomplishing simple tasks. Most >>>>>> people do not understand that I don't perceive their comments as >>>>>> complimentary; they are only responding to their low expectations >>> of >>>>>> my abilities. Unfortunately, education is not always possible or >>>>>> successful. Consequently, I find it difficult at times to determine >>>>>> whether a compliment is truely desserved. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't believe that we are particularly amazing or resilient. >>>>>> Certainly, we encounter many challenges; from low expectations on a >>>>>> daily basis, facing the difficulties of obtain textbooks, etc. >>>>>> However, we are merely accomplishing what we need to succeed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some thoughts, >>>>>> Danielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/29/13, Katie Wang wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a very interesting thread! I'm very much in agreement with >>>>>>> what Julie has said here. While I certainly believe that blind >>>>>>> people should not be regarded as amazing or inspirational for >>>>>>> accomplishing ordinary things (e.g., going to college, getting a >>>>>>> job, living independently), I do think that we need a >>>>>>> greater-than-average level of resilience to successfully handle >>>>>>> many of the challenges we face >>>>> as >>>>>>> blind people. Granted, many of these challenges are not directly >>>>>>> caused by our blindness per se but result from low expectations >>> and >>>>>>> negative attitudes from the general public, but they are >>>>>>> nonetheless challenges that call for resourcefulness, creativity, >>>>>>> and self-advocacy. After all, it is fair to say that sighted >>> people >>>>>>> generally don't have to worry about finding a way to access their >>>>>>> college textbooks or taking the initiative to learn alternative >>>>>>> techniques for completing everyday tasks. While I'm a firm believer >>>>> of >>>>>>> the NFB philosophy that, with training and opportunity, blindness >>>>>>> can be reduced to an inconvenience, I also think that, given the >>>>>>> reality of our society, many blind people are not given the >>>>>>> appropriate training and opportunities by default and do in fact >>>>>>> need to overcome more obstacles in order to accomplish things in >>>>>>> life that might otherwise be deemed ordinary. In that sense, the >>>>>>> label >>>> of "amazing" >>>>>>> may not be completely off the mark. Admittedly this rationale >>>>> probably >>>>>>> works better with major milestones in life such as graduating from >>>>>>> college with honors than with everyday tasks such as walking >>> around >>>>>>> independently, but I just want to put the thought out there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With regard to handling patronizing treatment from the general >>>>> public, >>>>>>> I have certainly encountered my fair share of frustrations. While I >>>>> do >>>>>>> make a point to educate those with whom I interact on a regular >>>>>>> basis so that they have an accurate understanding of me as a >>>>>>> competent, capable blind person, I admit that I often do not do so >>>>>>> with strangers. I have thanked random people for complimenting me >>>>>>> on being amazing many times, not because I agree with them but >>>>>>> because I do >>>>> not >>>>>>> have the time/energy to educate and do not want to appear rude. I >>>>>>> think it is important to remember that, as unfortunate as it is, >>>>>>> many sighted people do not recognize certain actions, such as >>>>>>> excessive helpfulness and compliments, as patronizing, even though >>>>>>> they do come across as very much so to us. For this reason, I'm of >>>>>>> the personal opinion that we should educate as much as we are >>>>>>> willing and able, >>>>> but >>>>>>> on those occasions where we do not feel up to the task (which I >>>>>>> know we all feel from time to time), erring on the side of polite >>>>>>> (albeit >>>>>>> passive) responding may be more constructive than coming across as >>>>>>> aggressive and confrontational. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Katie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/29/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I recently graduated from college. The public relations people >>>>>>>> here wanted to write an article about me because I was graduating >>>>>>>> with honors and with a double major. I thought, rather naively, >>>>>>>> that >>>>> this >>>>>>>> was the reason. But no... As you can imagine, the article was >>>>> about >>>>>>>> how amazing I was succeeding in college with honors as a blind >>>>> person. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If that wasn't bad enough, at my graduation ceremony the president >>>>> was >>>>>>>> giving a speech about resilience. In her speech, she mentioned >>>>> people >>>>>>>> who had been resilient due to circumstances in their lives that >>>>>>>> were difficult that they had to overcome. I was the first person >>>>>>>> mentioned. Then she mentioned a guy who did his entire degree >>>>> online >>>>>>>> while he was doing tures in Iraq, and finally, she described a >>>>>>>> girl who came from a poor village in Africa to receive her >>>>>>>> education. I felt aweful. Yes, I received honors and did the >>>>>>>> rare double major with a music major, but do I deserve to be >>>>>>>> compared to those people who faced such real hardships? I don't >>>>>>>> think so. Like Arielle, >>>>> I've >>>>>>>> lived a priviledged life. All of my needs and some of my wants >>>>>>>> were given to me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Then I started to think about it some more. I thought about >>>>> resilence >>>>>>>> as a blind person. I don't think resilience is exactly what most >>>>>>>> sighted people would expect. For them, it's simple; we have to >>>>>>>> overcome our blindness. Not being able to see must be terrible, >>>>>>>> and the fact that we have overcome something that they think >>>>>>>> insurmountable makes us amazing. But it's so much more than that. >>>>> I >>>>>>>> think we do, as blind people, have to be resilient. We face >>>>>>>> discrimination, deal with people who think we need help, receive >>>>>>>> questions that insult us, and, let's face it, people stare at us >>> a >>>>>>>> lot. Some of these things are less bothersome than others, but it >>>>> all >>>>>>>> amounts to the same thing. Dealing with these things makes us >>>>>>>> resilient in a way. I do not think this means that we are >>>>>>>> amazing, but I do think that it gives us a different outlook on >>> life. >>>>>>>> Facing the misconceptions of others causes to be resilient. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just some random thoughts I had... What an interesting >>> discussion! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/27/13, justin wrote: >>>>>>>>> I don't always know how to respond either; it does looks amazing >>>>> when >>>>>>>>> someone is operating in an alternative way. Even I will admit >>>>>>>>> that anytime someone uses a different set of abilities, or a >>>>>>>>> skill set which is unfamiliar to me, I consider them a little >>>>>>>>> beyond ordinary in that particular context, but rarely do I >>> think >>>>>>>>> they are >>>> amazing. >>>>>>>>> While educating people and opening their minds is nice; that is >>>>>>>>> something that >>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> their own way ought to do, it is degrading for a sighted person >>>>>>>>> to assume that all the skills in life I have acquired are >>>>>>>>> "amazing for a >>>>> blind >>>>>>>>> man." >>>>>>>>> At thirty-four, I have been subjected to a variety of "inspiring >>>>>>>>> moments so to speak. Some of them I play along with, and some >>> of >>>>>>>>> them I >>>>> don't. >>>>>>>>> After >>>>>>>>> a while I have learn to sometimes indulge the person to see where >>>>> it >>>>>>>>> goes, >>>>>>>>> and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use them as entertainment. >>>>> Other >>>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>>> I cut it off immediately. Usually, I thank them, or make a >>> joke. >>>>> It >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> good to liven those times up with humor to bring things down to a >>>>> human >>>>>>>>> level. And then there are those times when I say absolutely >>>>> nothing. >>>>>>>>> Corinthians 1-14 was it...-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> melissa >>>>>>>>> Green >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:04 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I remember that when I was in grade school. the teachers would >>>>> want to >>>>>>>>> parade me around in front of the state people coming to observe >>>>>>>>> the school. >>>>>>>>> After they left the teacher would harp on how I was just like >>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>> else. >>>>>>>>> I also remember having people applaud because I could walk into >>>>>>>>> the music room and sit in my chair. >>>>>>>>> I also remember being told that I had to be completely >>> independent. >>>>>>>>> No relying on others. >>>>>>>>> It took me a while to get out of that thought process. >>>>>>>>> When I did, my view of myself as a blind person changed as well. >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> I could go on and on about my childhood too. >>>>>>>>> But I won't. >>>>>>>>> I feel that recognition is nice, but I don't want a big fus made >>>>> over >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> because of my blindness. >>>>>>>>> When I was getting ready to go through the graduation ceremony >>>>>>>>> they wanted to give my guide dog a diploma and put her on mine, >>>>>>>>> as well as put >>>>> a >>>>>>>>> cap >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> gown on her. >>>>>>>>> I said absolutely not! >>>>>>>>> I would include her in my own way. >>>>>>>>> That is what I did. >>>>>>>>> I put my tassel on her collar and that is how I chose to do it. >>>>>>>>> It was my choice and noone else's. >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> Melissa and Pj >>>>>>>>> "Forever is composed of nows." -Emily Dickinson facebook Melissa >>>>>>>>> R Green Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674 >>>>>>>>> skype: lissa5674 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:42 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> I think some great points have been made here. When someone tells >>>>> me I >>>>>>>>> am amazing or inspiring or courageous or whatever, I don't like >>>>>>>>> it because it implies a lower standard. There's always part of >>>>>>>>> that compliment that goes unstated: "You're amazing......For a >>>>>>>>> blind person". It's really a backhanded insult to other blind >>>>>>>>> people, >>>>> even >>>>>>>>> though it may not be intended that way. Also, I don't like being >>>>> told >>>>>>>>> that I must have overcome great obstacles or that I must have >>>>>>>>> great perseverance and passion to get to where I am today, >>>>>>>>> because I >>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> think that's true. My blindness hasn't interfered much with my >>>>>>>>> educational achievements and compared with many others my life >>>>>>>>> has been over-privileged. When people make these assumptions I >>>>>>>>> feel >>>>> they >>>>>>>>> are judging me based on blindness without knowing much else about >>>>> me, >>>>>>>>> my upbringing or anything I've done. >>>>>>>>> I also think that the "amazing" comments are particularly tough >>>>>>>>> on blind youth who also happen to be high achievers. It's hard >>> to >>>>>>>>> know how to interpret these comments and when we are truly >>>>>>>>> amazing vs. >>>>> just >>>>>>>>> exceeding people's low standards. And sometimes, being an >>>>> inspiration >>>>>>>>> is just too much extra pressure when our lives are already filled >>>>> with >>>>>>>>> a lot of internal and external demands. >>>>>>>>> When I was growing up, I got used to these accolades because my >>>>>>>>> parents had many friends who would marvel at my accomplishments. >>>>> When >>>>>>>>> I was young I was often asked to show off my Braille reading for >>>>>>>>> company and this just completely blew people away. Then as I >>> grew >>>>>>>>> I was a high achiever in school and won some awards for spelling >>>>>>>>> bees and things like that. They deserved recognition, but >>>>>>>>> probably not >>>>> to >>>>>>>>> the level that I got. One night when I was ten, I wrote down >>> some >>>>>>>>> musings about how I felt about blindness and dealing with >>> sighted >>>>>>>>> kids. My mother ran across my writing on the family computer and >>>>>>>>> through a random string of events, what I wrote got published in >>>>> our >>>>>>>>> local paper. Then when I was eleven, a magazine editor read the >>>>>>>>> newspaper article and was so amazed and inspired that she asked >>>>>>>>> me >>>>> to >>>>>>>>> write a column for her magazine. This of course only compounded >>>>>>>>> people's awe and amazement in what I could do, since not only >>> was >>>>>>>>> I blind but I was also famous. It took several years, but I >>>>> eventually >>>>>>>>> realized that I wasn't an amazing writer. I was a decent writer, >>>>> but >>>>>>>>> not particularly outstanding at it, and not good at fiction or >>>>> poetry >>>>>>>>> at all. The only reason people were so impressed with my writing >>>>> was >>>>>>>>> because I wrote about blindness and that was a topic that >>>>>>>>> intrigued people. I had to get a lot of painful criticism on my >>>>>>>>> writing >>>>> before I >>>>>>>>> eventually realized I wasn't as outstanding as those folks made >>>>>>>>> me >>>>> out >>>>>>>>> to be. Around the time I came to that epiphany, I also began to >>>>> resent >>>>>>>>> all the accolades. I remember thinking, at the age of fifteen, >>>>>>>>> that "adults always treat me like I'm five and fifty at the same >>>>>>>>> time. >>>>> But >>>>>>>>> I just want to be a normal 15-year-old girl!" I felt like on one >>>>> hand, >>>>>>>>> I was being held to an impossibly high standard--expected to be >>>>>>>>> an amazing writer, an inspiration to all--and on the other hand, >>>>>>>>> held >>>>> to >>>>>>>>> an extremely low standard--expected not to be capable of basic >>>>>>>>> independence. People would praise my writing but then worry about >>>>> my >>>>>>>>> ability to walk across a room. I just wanted to blend into the >>>>> crowd >>>>>>>>> of teenagers and gossip about boys and clothes (well, mostly just >>>>>>>>> boys) instead. >>>>>>>>> Then, at the end of ninth grade, I "accidentally on purpose" >>>>> failed my >>>>>>>>> algebra final and earned my first B on my report card. There were >>>>> some >>>>>>>>> problems on the final that were hard and I didn't feel like >>>>> answering >>>>>>>>> on the last day of school, so I skipped them. I didn't intend to >>>>>>>>> fail--I think I just got a little overconfident about my ability >>>>>>>>> to earn straight A's. But I also wonder if on a less conscious >>>>>>>>> level, >>>>> I >>>>>>>>> bombed the test so I could prove to myself and others that I was >>>>>>>>> a human being and I was capable of screwing up--and not always >>> an >>>>>>>>> inspiration. Just a week before that final exam, I remember my >>>>> algebra >>>>>>>>> teacher admitting that he had doubted my ability to pass his >>>>>>>>> class >>>>> at >>>>>>>>> the beginning of the year, but that he was totally impressed with >>>>> my >>>>>>>>> performance. I remember being angry at him for assuming I >>>>>>>>> wouldn't succeed in his class just because I was blind. And so >>>>>>>>> perhaps, ironically, I failed his test to try to show him I >>>>>>>>> wasn't amazing, >>>>> I >>>>>>>>> wasn't a superhero, I was just a normal teenager doing the best >>> I >>>>>>>>> could to succeed in school. >>>>>>>>> OK, enough rambling about my childhood, but I do think that the >>>>>>>>> unnecessary recognition we get from the public can be just as >>>>> damaging >>>>>>>>> as true discrimination, especially when we are young and trying >>>>>>>>> to figure out where our true talents are. None of us should be >>>>>>>>> forced into the position of inspiring others. As first-class >>>>>>>>> citizens, we have the right to achieve at the level we wish to >>>>>>>>> achieve at, and >>>>> we >>>>>>>>> have a right to accurate feedback about how well we're doing at >>>>>>>>> something. Fortunately, as others have stated, there are sighted >>>>> folks >>>>>>>>> with high expectations who are willing to hold us up to rigorous >>>>>>>>> standards and to give us a true picture of our strengths and >>>>>>>>> weaknesses. >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >>>>> 4 >>>>> 0gmail >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Julie McG >>>>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>>>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>>>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding >>>>>>>> Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that >>>>>>>> he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may >>> not >>>>>>>> perish but may have eternal life." >>>>>>>> John 3:16 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >>>>> i >>>>> l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.co >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2% >>>>> 4 >>>>> 0gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >>>> 0gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail. >>>> com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>> Federation >>> of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of >>> Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >>> "For >>> God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who >>> believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." >>> John 3:16 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org >>> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them >> feel." >> — >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu May 30 23:09:13 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:09:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <2FA3419D-10C1-478F-8199-C0823B1DFD58@gmail.com> References: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> <2FA3419D-10C1-478F-8199-C0823B1DFD58@gmail.com> Message-ID: <271D79C6-13D9-4B55-BEDD-FF3F4FA6E78E@gmail.com> I hate to be a cynic, but I'm starting to wonder if those misconceptions will ever go away. If my admittedly limited experience is anything to go by, societies misguided notions About our capabilities aren't going away anytime soon and, In general, getting people to abandon those misconceptions seems to be a very long, very painful and often a very fruitless undertaking. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, I'm just saying it's such a slow process and I don't see how we will ever get to the point where society at large really understands that blindness, in and of itself, is, at most, a very minor obstacle and certainly shouldn't be any kind of a decisive factor in the hiring process for almost all jobs. Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hi all, I do agree with Arielle that blindness presents different practical challenges for different people. Generally speaking, if you have good blindness skills and have had more training, you become very efficient, and blindness does not usually factor into your life and preventing you from doing anything. And this is as it should be. Blindness should never be a consideration on whether you should or shouldn't do something or whether you can or can't do something. However, I do stand by my view that as a blind person I must excel. If I am applying for a job, and if the employer is prejudiced against disabilities, and if my application is the exact same as my cited competitor, there is a realistic chance that the employer will lean towards the cited competitor because it is easier to just hire them. You don't have to make any accommodations. It's my personal believe that if I want to achieve my career goals, which are admittedly fairly high for anyone, I must show that I can bring something to the table that no one else can, and hope that This fact will override somebody's prejudice. It is true that anybody who wants to get ahead must bring something original to the table. But it is also true that there are very real cases where it is a blind person is more qualified, and there's a sighted person who was less qualified the Cited person might still get the job. It is not unlike the plight that any minority faces. If there is a woman who is very qualified for the job, but the employer wants the man for the job Because it is they are believed that women should stay at home and mentioned work,they might hire the man instead of the woman. So I think it follows logically, that in someway we must prove that we XL beyond a reasonable doubt, and hope that that will override prejudice. In essence, the burden of proof for a class that tends to be misunderstood by society, must demonstrate to society Beyond a reasonable doubt that The mold Society Created for them, does not fit. And that the mold, not the class, must be re-created. I think that this is what we mean when we say that the biggest challenge that blindness presents is not blindness itself but the misconceptions. And until those misconceptions are effaced from our society, I do believe that in order to achieve high levels of success, we often have to prove ourselves not just good enough, but better beyond a reasonable doubt. > > Mary F > from my iPhone > > On May 30, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I don't think that all of us always have to work twice as hard to get >> things done. I do think that sometimes, some of us have to work harder >> because of blindness, but it doesn't apply equally to all of us all >> the time. For example, when I was an undergrad student, I did have to >> do some extra work to hunt down accessible textbooks and gain access >> to visual online materials, like gene maps for my genetics class. Now >> that I am in grad school, however, textbooks are rarely used and >> electronic copies of articles are readily furnished to all students. >> So, in grad school, blindness has little impact on my overall >> workload. Other times, extra work has allowed me to get ahead. In >> middle school we were often given vocab assignments which involved >> writing down definitions from the book's glossary. Since the glossary >> was several volumes in Braille, this was very inefficient for me. >> However, I soon discovered it was actually much quicker to just (gasp) >> read the chapter and learn the vocab words that way instead of looking >> up definitions. This was a little extra work on the front end, but it >> had the advantage that when the other students were assigned to read >> the chapter, I'd already finished that and could move on. >> I do think some of us face substantial obstacles related to blindness. >> On closer examination these obstacles usually have more to do with >> social prejudices than with blindness itself. For example, blind kids >> who aren't taught Braille until later in life do face challenges with >> reading, writing, test-taking etc. That's not because of blindness, >> but because of unfavorable social attitudes toward Braille. For others >> blindness could interact with something else--financial problems, or a >> bad home life--to create legitimate obstacles. What I don't like is >> when people assume I have these challenges without knowing anything >> about me except that I am blind. The challenges of blindness, or lack >> thereof, are different for every person and the same person could >> experience different levels of challenge at different points in time. >> Too often these nuances aren't recognized by the sighted public. >> Instead, anything a blind person achieves must have been very >> difficult and only achieved because the blind person is exceptional. >> I can also relate to Mary's comments about becoming an overachiever >> due to blindness. In my own case it was because as the youngest child, >> blind and also physically tiny, I think I was babied a lot by family >> members and others in my life. I was driven to excel in school in >> order to compensate for the inferior and infantilizing way I was often >> treated. I don't think this reaction is a bad one as long as the >> person doesn't become so perfectionistic that failure becomes >> intolerable. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/30/13, Mary Fernandez wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> I've been following this thread on and off, and didn't want to weigh >>> in, but I will... >>> I think that we can go too far in either direction. We can be the >>> person who does think they are amazing because they are blind and can >>> walk. Or you can be the person who will always shrug off a compliment, >>> because they think that the only reason they are getting it is because >>> they are blind, and they believe that they are the definition of >>> average. >>> My approach is being balanced. Perhaps this is because I know I have >>> overcome quite a number of challenges in life, very few of which had >>> anything to do with my blindness. Perhaps because I had a mother who >>> never ever allowed my blindness to be neither a hindrance nor an >>> advantage. She was very clear that yes I was blind, so what? And so >>> that became ingrained in my psyche, to the point where my disability >>> was never really a source of psychological distress. Yes, I did have >>> the question of how I would be successful, and if I was the only blind >>> person who had dreams and aspirations. And how I might make those >>> dreams and aspirations come true when so many people clearly thought I >>> shouldn’t even be able to tie my shoelaces. And yes, it wasn’t until I >>> met blind role models, that I knew that not only could I make my >>> dreams come true, but that others had overcome the challenges that >>> misconceptions present. In my case, I set out to prove the world >>> wrong, and became an overachiever. People who are overachievers >>> usually have an underlying reason for always wanting to come out on >>> top, for me it was that I was blind. For other teens it might be >>> insecurities about their looks, their popularity etc. >>> As an adult I am fully aware that in order to be successful and to be >>> taken seriously as a blind person, one must work very hard and always >>> prove themselves. This is because of the misconceptions of the world. >>> It is unrealistic to pretend that just any average blind person can >>> become a manager in the work place. Discrimination does exist, whether >>> it is based on gender, race, sexual orientation or disability. And the >>> sad truth is that when a person sees me walking with my white cane, >>> many of them cannot begin to imagine how I could possibly be ok, and >>> that it is their responsibility for them to help me, after all I am >>> disadvantaged, they are not. >>> Thus, I know it is my responsibility to educate each of those people >>> wrong. It is my responsibility to prove the nay sayers, who go beyond, >>> oh she’s disadvantaged, to she can’t do it because she’s blind, >>> therefore she must be lacking in some essential way. But it is also my >>> responsibility to myself to recognize my accomplishment and savor my >>> achievements. It is my responsibility to myself to build healthy, >>> mutually respectful relationships, in which I am secure in the >>> knowledge that that person and I understand each other, and that we >>> see each other for the person for who we are as opposed to some random >>> trait we possess. And when that person says, you have done a great >>> job, that you gone above and beyond what I expected, I can recognize >>> that it isn’t because they are being condescending but rather because >>> they have held me to the standard to which they hold everyone else. It >>> is important to find these types of relationships both professionally >>> and personally. We want someone to tell us when we are lacking, but >>> also to tell us when we rocked something. I am fortunate to work in a >>> place where I know all of my coworkers and superiors are holding me to >>> the standard to which they hold every other employee. And while it is >>> my instinct to dismiss a compliment from anyone, I’m learning to take >>> them and say thank you. It’s important to learn these ladies and >>> gentlemen, because if we do not give ourselves credit for the things >>> we do, and the accomplishments we achieve, there is no point to them. >>> I think the key is in having a high standard for yourself, not >>> compromising that standard, and knowing when you just have to ignore >>> the people I the street who say silly things like, wow you match. But >>> also when to pay attention to people who see beyond your disability >>> and are speaking of your character. >>> >>> >>> On 5/30/13, Helga wrote: >>>> Hey Miso, this is Helga! I just wantded to tell you that I'm a Christian >>>> as >>>> >>>> well!, and I think that you are definitely right! when you say that God >>>> has >>>> >>>> a purpose. I actually believe that God has a purpose for everyone even if >>>> they are blind or not. I'm actually blind, and I'm studying in college in >>>> order to become a Lawyer. By The way, just to let you know, I just became >>>> blind 5 years ago, but I didn't let this circumstance stop me in order to >>>> accomplish my goals. Thanks! for listening to me, and God bless! hope to >>>> talk to you soon! :) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Miso Kwak >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:21 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> I attended school for the blind in Korea for 10 years and teachers >>>> often said we have to work twice or even triple times hard. I denied >>>> that saying but now while I don't necessarily agree, I would say it >>>> takes more time and energy in some things we we were to accomplish. >>>> Looking at my friends who have gone to colleges in Korea they might >>>> agree with this saying because they always have to fight for books and >>>> just less informed public in general. >>>> I believe work ethic comes because of the environment not just being >>>> blind it self. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: justin >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> >>>> Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:11 am >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>> >>>> I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't >>>> say >>>> it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of >>>> work >>>> ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is >>>> what >>>> it is. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie >>>> McGinnity >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu May 30 23:27:36 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:27:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Online Courses In-Reply-To: <718AD379E5E348E29C957B3937ECF548@acerd37f251f21> References: <936344F8-3DC0-49D1-BEE8-0C69BD6F4B6D@aol.com> <718AD379E5E348E29C957B3937ECF548@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: <38B2BDB7-7457-4F1E-B8DC-4F234C3D5CCD@gmail.com> If it were me personally, I think I would opt for Latin although I can understand why you would want to do Spanish. If you are set on Latin, I don't really see why you would need an eloquent synthesizer for it. It's not like Latin is something you would have to learn to speak perfectly, with the right accent, So I can't imagine pronunciation would matter nearly as much as it would with something like Spanish. However, I can see how having access to some sort of a braille display would be very helpful, although I imagine you could get by without one. Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > I took Spanish online also this past semester, and it went well except for the fact that the instructor used My Spanish Lab, which is not very accessible with JAWS. Otherwise, all of the other websites and course materials worked very well with JAWS. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridget Walker" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:25 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Online Courses > > >> Jaws has a built in synthesizer for Spanish but, I can see why you want to take Latin. I would take Spanish only because of the fact that you must take the class on line. I know a jaws user who took Latin for three years but, I am pretty sure they used braille. I can ask them and get back to you ASAP if you would like. >> >> Best, >> >> Bridget >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On May 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Winona Brackett wrote: >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I have to take two credits of one foreign language in order to meet >>> graduation requirements. Because of scheduling, I have to take at >>> least the first credit of the foreign language online through Florida >>> Virtual School. I'm enro lled in Latin I currently. I'm having trouble >>> learning the language and all the different word endings. What is >>> Spanish like? Which course do you think is more accessible with JAWS >>> 14? >>> >>> If I continue with Latin, I will have to take Latin I and Latin II >>> online. (The main reason why I wanted to try Latin is so I can improve >>> my English vocabulary since most of the English language is from Latin >>> roots.) My school doesn't offer Latin. >>> >>> If I took Spanish I online, I could take Spanish II at school. >>> >>> What are your thoughts? >>> >>> >>> Winona >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri May 31 00:33:28 2013 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 20:33:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <271D79C6-13D9-4B55-BEDD-FF3F4FA6E78E@gmail.com> References: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> <2FA3419D-10C1-478F-8199-C0823B1DFD58@gmail.com> <271D79C6-13D9-4B55-BEDD-FF3F4FA6E78E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20A44A36-36C1-464E-B293-F8CDF54CA7FF@gmail.com> Kurt, What you say is accurate, and I must point out, a characteristic aspect of any civil Rights movement. Slavery was abolished in 1865, but racism is very much still alive. Women were given the right to vote in 1920, and the right to decide whether they had an abortion in 1974, and yet, we still have women being disadvantaged in corporate America, and we ar now reviewing the issue of abortion. It is easy to change legislation compared to changing the mindframe of society. It takes generations upon generations, and persistence from what is usually a minority in society, to be able to change peoples minds. It's something that's passed on by generations, so the parents will pass on Their views and attitudes to their child and On on. but with every one person that we educate and whose mind we enlighten with a different point of view, that person will pass it on to the people they know, and might change one more person's mind. The only thing we can do, is keep educating people. And there will always be descent. Mary f Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Kirt wrote: > I hate to be a cynic, but I'm starting to wonder if those misconceptions will ever go away. If my admittedly limited experience is anything to go by, societies misguided notions About our capabilities aren't going away anytime soon and, In general, getting people to abandon those misconceptions seems to be a very long, very painful and often a very fruitless undertaking. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, I'm just saying it's such a slow process and I don't see how we will ever get to the point where society at large really understands that blindness, in and of itself, is, at most, a very minor obstacle and certainly shouldn't be any kind of a decisive factor in the hiring process for almost all jobs. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 30, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Mary Fernandez wrote: > >> Hi all, I do agree with Arielle that blindness presents different practical challenges for different people. Generally speaking, if you have good blindness skills and have had more training, you become very efficient, and blindness does not usually factor into your life and preventing you from doing anything. And this is as it should be. Blindness should never be a consideration on whether you should or shouldn't do something or whether you can or can't do something. However, I do stand by my view that as a blind person I must excel. If I am applying for a job, and if the employer is prejudiced against disabilities, and if my application is the exact same as my cited competitor, there is a realistic chance that the employer will lean towards the cited competitor because it is easier to just hire them. You don't have to make any accommodations. It's my personal believe that if I want to achieve my career goals, which are admittedly fairly high for anyone, I must show that I can bring something to the table that no one else can, and hope that This fact will override somebody's prejudice. It is true that anybody who wants to get ahead must bring something original to the table. But it is also true that there are very real cases where it is a blind person is more qualified, and there's a sighted person who was less qualified the Cited person might still get the job. It is not unlike the plight that any minority faces. If there is a woman who is very qualified for the job, but the employer wants the man for the job Because it is they are believed that women should stay at home and mentioned work,they might hire the man instead of the woman. So I think it follows logically, that in someway we must prove that we XL beyond a reasonable doubt, and hope that that will override prejudice. In essence, the burden of proof for a class that tends to be misunderstood by society, must demonstrate to society Beyond a reasonable doubt that The mold Society Created for them, does not fit. And that the mold, not the class, must be re-created. I think that this is what we mean when we say that the biggest challenge that blindness presents is not blindness itself but the misconceptions. And until those misconceptions are effaced from our society, I do believe that in order to achieve high levels of success, we often have to prove ourselves not just good enough, but better beyond a reasonable doubt. >> >> Mary F >> from my iPhone >> >> On May 30, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I don't think that all of us always have to work twice as hard to get >>> things done. I do think that sometimes, some of us have to work harder >>> because of blindness, but it doesn't apply equally to all of us all >>> the time. For example, when I was an undergrad student, I did have to >>> do some extra work to hunt down accessible textbooks and gain access >>> to visual online materials, like gene maps for my genetics class. Now >>> that I am in grad school, however, textbooks are rarely used and >>> electronic copies of articles are readily furnished to all students. >>> So, in grad school, blindness has little impact on my overall >>> workload. Other times, extra work has allowed me to get ahead. In >>> middle school we were often given vocab assignments which involved >>> writing down definitions from the book's glossary. Since the glossary >>> was several volumes in Braille, this was very inefficient for me. >>> However, I soon discovered it was actually much quicker to just (gasp) >>> read the chapter and learn the vocab words that way instead of looking >>> up definitions. This was a little extra work on the front end, but it >>> had the advantage that when the other students were assigned to read >>> the chapter, I'd already finished that and could move on. >>> I do think some of us face substantial obstacles related to blindness. >>> On closer examination these obstacles usually have more to do with >>> social prejudices than with blindness itself. For example, blind kids >>> who aren't taught Braille until later in life do face challenges with >>> reading, writing, test-taking etc. That's not because of blindness, >>> but because of unfavorable social attitudes toward Braille. For others >>> blindness could interact with something else--financial problems, or a >>> bad home life--to create legitimate obstacles. What I don't like is >>> when people assume I have these challenges without knowing anything >>> about me except that I am blind. The challenges of blindness, or lack >>> thereof, are different for every person and the same person could >>> experience different levels of challenge at different points in time. >>> Too often these nuances aren't recognized by the sighted public. >>> Instead, anything a blind person achieves must have been very >>> difficult and only achieved because the blind person is exceptional. >>> I can also relate to Mary's comments about becoming an overachiever >>> due to blindness. In my own case it was because as the youngest child, >>> blind and also physically tiny, I think I was babied a lot by family >>> members and others in my life. I was driven to excel in school in >>> order to compensate for the inferior and infantilizing way I was often >>> treated. I don't think this reaction is a bad one as long as the >>> person doesn't become so perfectionistic that failure becomes >>> intolerable. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 5/30/13, Mary Fernandez wrote: >>>> Dear all, >>>> I've been following this thread on and off, and didn't want to weigh >>>> in, but I will... >>>> I think that we can go too far in either direction. We can be the >>>> person who does think they are amazing because they are blind and can >>>> walk. Or you can be the person who will always shrug off a compliment, >>>> because they think that the only reason they are getting it is because >>>> they are blind, and they believe that they are the definition of >>>> average. >>>> My approach is being balanced. Perhaps this is because I know I have >>>> overcome quite a number of challenges in life, very few of which had >>>> anything to do with my blindness. Perhaps because I had a mother who >>>> never ever allowed my blindness to be neither a hindrance nor an >>>> advantage. She was very clear that yes I was blind, so what? And so >>>> that became ingrained in my psyche, to the point where my disability >>>> was never really a source of psychological distress. Yes, I did have >>>> the question of how I would be successful, and if I was the only blind >>>> person who had dreams and aspirations. And how I might make those >>>> dreams and aspirations come true when so many people clearly thought I >>>> shouldn’t even be able to tie my shoelaces. And yes, it wasn’t until I >>>> met blind role models, that I knew that not only could I make my >>>> dreams come true, but that others had overcome the challenges that >>>> misconceptions present. In my case, I set out to prove the world >>>> wrong, and became an overachiever. People who are overachievers >>>> usually have an underlying reason for always wanting to come out on >>>> top, for me it was that I was blind. For other teens it might be >>>> insecurities about their looks, their popularity etc. >>>> As an adult I am fully aware that in order to be successful and to be >>>> taken seriously as a blind person, one must work very hard and always >>>> prove themselves. This is because of the misconceptions of the world. >>>> It is unrealistic to pretend that just any average blind person can >>>> become a manager in the work place. Discrimination does exist, whether >>>> it is based on gender, race, sexual orientation or disability. And the >>>> sad truth is that when a person sees me walking with my white cane, >>>> many of them cannot begin to imagine how I could possibly be ok, and >>>> that it is their responsibility for them to help me, after all I am >>>> disadvantaged, they are not. >>>> Thus, I know it is my responsibility to educate each of those people >>>> wrong. It is my responsibility to prove the nay sayers, who go beyond, >>>> oh she’s disadvantaged, to she can’t do it because she’s blind, >>>> therefore she must be lacking in some essential way. But it is also my >>>> responsibility to myself to recognize my accomplishment and savor my >>>> achievements. It is my responsibility to myself to build healthy, >>>> mutually respectful relationships, in which I am secure in the >>>> knowledge that that person and I understand each other, and that we >>>> see each other for the person for who we are as opposed to some random >>>> trait we possess. And when that person says, you have done a great >>>> job, that you gone above and beyond what I expected, I can recognize >>>> that it isn’t because they are being condescending but rather because >>>> they have held me to the standard to which they hold everyone else. It >>>> is important to find these types of relationships both professionally >>>> and personally. We want someone to tell us when we are lacking, but >>>> also to tell us when we rocked something. I am fortunate to work in a >>>> place where I know all of my coworkers and superiors are holding me to >>>> the standard to which they hold every other employee. And while it is >>>> my instinct to dismiss a compliment from anyone, I’m learning to take >>>> them and say thank you. It’s important to learn these ladies and >>>> gentlemen, because if we do not give ourselves credit for the things >>>> we do, and the accomplishments we achieve, there is no point to them. >>>> I think the key is in having a high standard for yourself, not >>>> compromising that standard, and knowing when you just have to ignore >>>> the people I the street who say silly things like, wow you match. But >>>> also when to pay attention to people who see beyond your disability >>>> and are speaking of your character. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/30/13, Helga wrote: >>>>> Hey Miso, this is Helga! I just wantded to tell you that I'm a Christian >>>>> as >>>>> >>>>> well!, and I think that you are definitely right! when you say that God >>>>> has >>>>> >>>>> a purpose. I actually believe that God has a purpose for everyone even if >>>>> they are blind or not. I'm actually blind, and I'm studying in college in >>>>> order to become a Lawyer. By The way, just to let you know, I just became >>>>> blind 5 years ago, but I didn't let this circumstance stop me in order to >>>>> accomplish my goals. Thanks! for listening to me, and God bless! hope to >>>>> talk to you soon! :) >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Miso Kwak >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:21 AM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> I attended school for the blind in Korea for 10 years and teachers >>>>> often said we have to work twice or even triple times hard. I denied >>>>> that saying but now while I don't necessarily agree, I would say it >>>>> takes more time and energy in some things we we were to accomplish. >>>>> Looking at my friends who have gone to colleges in Korea they might >>>>> agree with this saying because they always have to fight for books and >>>>> just less informed public in general. >>>>> I believe work ethic comes because of the environment not just being >>>>> blind it self. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: justin >>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:11 am >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>> >>>>> I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't >>>>> say >>>>> it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of >>>>> work >>>>> ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is >>>>> what >>>>> it is. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie >>>>> McGinnity >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri May 31 02:12:09 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 20:12:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People In-Reply-To: <20A44A36-36C1-464E-B293-F8CDF54CA7FF@gmail.com> References: <000601ce5c7f$004f6bd0$00ee4370$@gmail.com> <8D02B607FB0CD6E-E08-3B928@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> <2FA3419D-10C1-478F-8199-C0823B1DFD58@gmail.com> <271D79C6-13D9-4B55-BEDD-FF3F4FA6E78E@gmail.com> <20A44A36-36C1-464E-B293-F8CDF54CA7FF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Kirt, I often get cynical too about the persistence of the problem that you describe. However, in order to keep myself motivated, I try to remember that even if we cannot get rid of all prejudice against us, bettering the life of even one blind person, or successfully educating one sighted person, is still a step forward. If we take time to educate the stranger on the street about how we get around, and that stranger eventually chooses to hire a blind person for a job they are good at, or to date and marry a blind person who is a good match for them, or to step up and defend a blind parent's right to keep their child, then we have made that little bit of progress. Arielle On 5/30/13, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Kurt, > What you say is accurate, and I must point out, a characteristic aspect of > any civil Rights movement. Slavery was abolished in 1865, but racism is very > much still alive. Women were given the right to vote in 1920, and the right > to decide whether they had an abortion in 1974, and yet, we still have women > being disadvantaged in corporate America, and we ar now reviewing the issue > of abortion. It is easy to change legislation compared to changing the > mindframe of society. It takes generations upon generations, and persistence > from what is usually a minority in society, to be able to change peoples > minds. It's something that's passed on by generations, so the parents will > pass on Their views and attitudes to their child and On on. but with every > one person that we educate and whose mind we enlighten with a different > point of view, that person will pass it on to the people they know, and > might change one more person's mind. The only thing we can do, is keep > educating people. And there will always be descent. Mary f Sent from my > iPhone > > On May 30, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Kirt wrote: > >> I hate to be a cynic, but I'm starting to wonder if those misconceptions >> will ever go away. If my admittedly limited experience is anything to go >> by, societies misguided notions About our capabilities aren't going away >> anytime soon and, In general, getting people to abandon those >> misconceptions seems to be a very long, very painful and often a very >> fruitless undertaking. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, I'm just saying >> it's such a slow process and I don't see how we will ever get to the point >> where society at large really understands that blindness, in and of >> itself, is, at most, a very minor obstacle and certainly shouldn't be any >> kind of a decisive factor in the hiring process for almost all jobs. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 30, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Mary Fernandez wrote: >> >>> Hi all, I do agree with Arielle that blindness presents different >>> practical challenges for different people. Generally speaking, if you >>> have good blindness skills and have had more training, you become very >>> efficient, and blindness does not usually factor into your life and >>> preventing you from doing anything. And this is as it should be. >>> Blindness should never be a consideration on whether you should or >>> shouldn't do something or whether you can or can't do something. >>> However, I do stand by my view that as a blind person I must excel. If I >>> am applying for a job, and if the employer is prejudiced against >>> disabilities, and if my application is the exact same as my cited >>> competitor, there is a realistic chance that the employer will lean >>> towards the cited competitor because it is easier to just hire them. You >>> don't have to make any accommodations. It's my personal believe that if I >>> want to achieve my career goals, which are admittedly fairly high for >>> anyone, I must show that I can bring something to the table that no one >>> else can, and hope that This fact will override somebody's prejudice. It >>> is true that anybody who wants to get ahead must bring something original >>> to the table. But it is also true that there are very real cases where it >>> is a blind person is more qualified, and there's a sighted person who >>> was less qualified the Cited person might still get the job. It is not >>> unlike the plight that any minority faces. If there is a woman who is >>> very qualified for the job, but the employer wants the man for the job >>> Because it is they are believed that women should stay at home and >>> mentioned work,they might hire the man instead of the woman. So I think >>> it follows logically, that in someway we must prove that we XL beyond a >>> reasonable doubt, and hope that that will override prejudice. In >>> essence, the burden of proof for a class that tends to be misunderstood >>> by society, must demonstrate to society Beyond a reasonable doubt that >>> The mold Society Created for them, does not fit. And that the mold, not >>> the class, must be re-created. I think that this is what we mean when we >>> say that the biggest challenge that blindness presents is not blindness >>> itself but the misconceptions. And until those misconceptions are effaced >>> from our society, I do believe that in order to achieve high levels of >>> success, we often have to prove ourselves not just good enough, but >>> better beyond a reasonable doubt. >>> >>> Mary F >>> from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 30, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I don't think that all of us always have to work twice as hard to get >>>> things done. I do think that sometimes, some of us have to work harder >>>> because of blindness, but it doesn't apply equally to all of us all >>>> the time. For example, when I was an undergrad student, I did have to >>>> do some extra work to hunt down accessible textbooks and gain access >>>> to visual online materials, like gene maps for my genetics class. Now >>>> that I am in grad school, however, textbooks are rarely used and >>>> electronic copies of articles are readily furnished to all students. >>>> So, in grad school, blindness has little impact on my overall >>>> workload. Other times, extra work has allowed me to get ahead. In >>>> middle school we were often given vocab assignments which involved >>>> writing down definitions from the book's glossary. Since the glossary >>>> was several volumes in Braille, this was very inefficient for me. >>>> However, I soon discovered it was actually much quicker to just (gasp) >>>> read the chapter and learn the vocab words that way instead of looking >>>> up definitions. This was a little extra work on the front end, but it >>>> had the advantage that when the other students were assigned to read >>>> the chapter, I'd already finished that and could move on. >>>> I do think some of us face substantial obstacles related to blindness. >>>> On closer examination these obstacles usually have more to do with >>>> social prejudices than with blindness itself. For example, blind kids >>>> who aren't taught Braille until later in life do face challenges with >>>> reading, writing, test-taking etc. That's not because of blindness, >>>> but because of unfavorable social attitudes toward Braille. For others >>>> blindness could interact with something else--financial problems, or a >>>> bad home life--to create legitimate obstacles. What I don't like is >>>> when people assume I have these challenges without knowing anything >>>> about me except that I am blind. The challenges of blindness, or lack >>>> thereof, are different for every person and the same person could >>>> experience different levels of challenge at different points in time. >>>> Too often these nuances aren't recognized by the sighted public. >>>> Instead, anything a blind person achieves must have been very >>>> difficult and only achieved because the blind person is exceptional. >>>> I can also relate to Mary's comments about becoming an overachiever >>>> due to blindness. In my own case it was because as the youngest child, >>>> blind and also physically tiny, I think I was babied a lot by family >>>> members and others in my life. I was driven to excel in school in >>>> order to compensate for the inferior and infantilizing way I was often >>>> treated. I don't think this reaction is a bad one as long as the >>>> person doesn't become so perfectionistic that failure becomes >>>> intolerable. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 5/30/13, Mary Fernandez wrote: >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> I've been following this thread on and off, and didn't want to weigh >>>>> in, but I will... >>>>> I think that we can go too far in either direction. We can be the >>>>> person who does think they are amazing because they are blind and can >>>>> walk. Or you can be the person who will always shrug off a compliment, >>>>> because they think that the only reason they are getting it is because >>>>> they are blind, and they believe that they are the definition of >>>>> average. >>>>> My approach is being balanced. Perhaps this is because I know I have >>>>> overcome quite a number of challenges in life, very few of which had >>>>> anything to do with my blindness. Perhaps because I had a mother who >>>>> never ever allowed my blindness to be neither a hindrance nor an >>>>> advantage. She was very clear that yes I was blind, so what? And so >>>>> that became ingrained in my psyche, to the point where my disability >>>>> was never really a source of psychological distress. Yes, I did have >>>>> the question of how I would be successful, and if I was the only blind >>>>> person who had dreams and aspirations. And how I might make those >>>>> dreams and aspirations come true when so many people clearly thought I >>>>> shouldn’t even be able to tie my shoelaces. And yes, it wasn’t until I >>>>> met blind role models, that I knew that not only could I make my >>>>> dreams come true, but that others had overcome the challenges that >>>>> misconceptions present. In my case, I set out to prove the world >>>>> wrong, and became an overachiever. People who are overachievers >>>>> usually have an underlying reason for always wanting to come out on >>>>> top, for me it was that I was blind. For other teens it might be >>>>> insecurities about their looks, their popularity etc. >>>>> As an adult I am fully aware that in order to be successful and to be >>>>> taken seriously as a blind person, one must work very hard and always >>>>> prove themselves. This is because of the misconceptions of the world. >>>>> It is unrealistic to pretend that just any average blind person can >>>>> become a manager in the work place. Discrimination does exist, whether >>>>> it is based on gender, race, sexual orientation or disability. And the >>>>> sad truth is that when a person sees me walking with my white cane, >>>>> many of them cannot begin to imagine how I could possibly be ok, and >>>>> that it is their responsibility for them to help me, after all I am >>>>> disadvantaged, they are not. >>>>> Thus, I know it is my responsibility to educate each of those people >>>>> wrong. It is my responsibility to prove the nay sayers, who go beyond, >>>>> oh she’s disadvantaged, to she can’t do it because she’s blind, >>>>> therefore she must be lacking in some essential way. But it is also my >>>>> responsibility to myself to recognize my accomplishment and savor my >>>>> achievements. It is my responsibility to myself to build healthy, >>>>> mutually respectful relationships, in which I am secure in the >>>>> knowledge that that person and I understand each other, and that we >>>>> see each other for the person for who we are as opposed to some random >>>>> trait we possess. And when that person says, you have done a great >>>>> job, that you gone above and beyond what I expected, I can recognize >>>>> that it isn’t because they are being condescending but rather because >>>>> they have held me to the standard to which they hold everyone else. It >>>>> is important to find these types of relationships both professionally >>>>> and personally. We want someone to tell us when we are lacking, but >>>>> also to tell us when we rocked something. I am fortunate to work in a >>>>> place where I know all of my coworkers and superiors are holding me to >>>>> the standard to which they hold every other employee. And while it is >>>>> my instinct to dismiss a compliment from anyone, I’m learning to take >>>>> them and say thank you. It’s important to learn these ladies and >>>>> gentlemen, because if we do not give ourselves credit for the things >>>>> we do, and the accomplishments we achieve, there is no point to them. >>>>> I think the key is in having a high standard for yourself, not >>>>> compromising that standard, and knowing when you just have to ignore >>>>> the people I the street who say silly things like, wow you match. But >>>>> also when to pay attention to people who see beyond your disability >>>>> and are speaking of your character. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/30/13, Helga wrote: >>>>>> Hey Miso, this is Helga! I just wantded to tell you that I'm a >>>>>> Christian >>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> well!, and I think that you are definitely right! when you say that >>>>>> God >>>>>> has >>>>>> >>>>>> a purpose. I actually believe that God has a purpose for everyone even >>>>>> if >>>>>> they are blind or not. I'm actually blind, and I'm studying in college >>>>>> in >>>>>> order to become a Lawyer. By The way, just to let you know, I just >>>>>> became >>>>>> blind 5 years ago, but I didn't let this circumstance stop me in order >>>>>> to >>>>>> accomplish my goals. Thanks! for listening to me, and God bless! hope >>>>>> to >>>>>> talk to you soon! :) >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Miso Kwak >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:21 AM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> I attended school for the blind in Korea for 10 years and teachers >>>>>> often said we have to work twice or even triple times hard. I denied >>>>>> that saying but now while I don't necessarily agree, I would say it >>>>>> takes more time and energy in some things we we were to accomplish. >>>>>> Looking at my friends who have gone to colleges in Korea they might >>>>>> agree with this saying because they always have to fight for books and >>>>>> just less informed public in general. >>>>>> I believe work ethic comes because of the environment not just being >>>>>> blind it self. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: justin >>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:11 am >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Those Amazing Inspiring Blind People >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know about twice as hard, but unfortunately, even fi you don't >>>>>> say >>>>>> it aloud, hopefully our children who are blidn will have that kind of >>>>>> work >>>>>> ethic instilled into them. I don't much care for it either, but it is >>>>>> what >>>>>> it is. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie >>>>>> McGinnity >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:04 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From kathrynwebster at me.com Fri May 31 03:27:39 2013 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kathryn Webster) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 23:27:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Online Courses In-Reply-To: <38B2BDB7-7457-4F1E-B8DC-4F234C3D5CCD@gmail.com> References: <936344F8-3DC0-49D1-BEE8-0C69BD6F4B6D@aol.com> <718AD379E5E348E29C957B3937ECF548@acerd37f251f21> <38B2BDB7-7457-4F1E-B8DC-4F234C3D5CCD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1333E1F0-A6B6-48F7-B6B2-519EDBC25FD2@me.com> In my personal experience, I have taken both Latin and Spanish. I would advise you to take Spanish. Please let me know if you have further questions. I rather not bombard everyone's inbox. Kathryn Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2013, at 7:27 PM, Kirt wrote: > If it were me personally, I think I would opt for Latin although I can understand why you would want to do Spanish. If you are set on Latin, I don't really see why you would need an eloquent synthesizer for it. It's not like Latin is something you would have to learn to speak perfectly, with the right accent, So I can't imagine pronunciation would matter nearly as much as it would with something like Spanish. However, I can see how having access to some sort of a braille display would be very helpful, although I imagine you could get by without one. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 30, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > >> I took Spanish online also this past semester, and it went well except for the fact that the instructor used My Spanish Lab, which is not very accessible with JAWS. Otherwise, all of the other websites and course materials worked very well with JAWS. >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridget Walker" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:25 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Online Courses >> >> >>> Jaws has a built in synthesizer for Spanish but, I can see why you want to take Latin. I would take Spanish only because of the fact that you must take the class on line. I know a jaws user who took Latin for three years but, I am pretty sure they used braille. I can ask them and get back to you ASAP if you would like. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Bridget >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On May 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Winona Brackett wrote: >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I have to take two credits of one foreign language in order to meet >>>> graduation requirements. Because of scheduling, I have to take at >>>> least the first credit of the foreign language online through Florida >>>> Virtual School. I'm enro lled in Latin I currently. I'm having trouble >>>> learning the language and all the different word endings. What is >>>> Spanish like? Which course do you think is more accessible with JAWS >>>> 14? >>>> >>>> If I continue with Latin, I will have to take Latin I and Latin II >>>> online. (The main reason why I wanted to try Latin is so I can improve >>>> my English vocabulary since most of the English language is from Latin >>>> roots.) My school doesn't offer Latin. >>>> >>>> If I took Spanish I online, I could take Spanish II at school. >>>> >>>> What are your thoughts? >>>> >>>> >>>> Winona >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri May 31 10:54:57 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 06:54:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Online Courses In-Reply-To: <1333E1F0-A6B6-48F7-B6B2-519EDBC25FD2@me.com> References: <936344F8-3DC0-49D1-BEE8-0C69BD6F4B6D@aol.com> <718AD379E5E348E29C957B3937ECF548@acerd37f251f21> <38B2BDB7-7457-4F1E-B8DC-4F234C3D5CCD@gmail.com> <1333E1F0-A6B6-48F7-B6B2-519EDBC25FD2@me.com> Message-ID: <4211389431401857394@unknownmsgid> Kathryn, I'm curious as to how that works with your screen reader. How were you able to ensure that your screen reader was pronouncing Spanish or Latin words correctly? Did you change your speech synthesizer's speaking language to that language when you were reading course material? Also, how were you able to deal with Latin with a screen reader? I haven't seen that as one of the language options, at least in JAWS. Did you use a Braille display at any point during these courses? Thanks, Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2013, at 11:28 PM, Kathryn Webster wrote: > In my personal experience, I have taken both Latin and Spanish. I would advise you to take Spanish. Please let me know if you have further questions. I rather not bombard everyone's inbox. > Kathryn > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 30, 2013, at 7:27 PM, Kirt wrote: > >> If it were me personally, I think I would opt for Latin although I can understand why you would want to do Spanish. If you are set on Latin, I don't really see why you would need an eloquent synthesizer for it. It's not like Latin is something you would have to learn to speak perfectly, with the right accent, So I can't imagine pronunciation would matter nearly as much as it would with something like Spanish. However, I can see how having access to some sort of a braille display would be very helpful, although I imagine you could get by without one. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 30, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> >>> I took Spanish online also this past semester, and it went well except for the fact that the instructor used My Spanish Lab, which is not very accessible with JAWS. Otherwise, all of the other websites and course materials worked very well with JAWS. >>> Misty >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridget Walker" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:25 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Online Courses >>> >>> >>>> Jaws has a built in synthesizer for Spanish but, I can see why you want to take Latin. I would take Spanish only because of the fact that you must take the class on line. I know a jaws user who took Latin for three years but, I am pretty sure they used braille. I can ask them and get back to you ASAP if you would like. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Bridget >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On May 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Winona Brackett wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello All, >>>>> >>>>> I have to take two credits of one foreign language in order to meet >>>>> graduation requirements. Because of scheduling, I have to take at >>>>> least the first credit of the foreign language online through Florida >>>>> Virtual School. I'm enro lled in Latin I currently. I'm having trouble >>>>> learning the language and all the different word endings. What is >>>>> Spanish like? Which course do you think is more accessible with JAWS >>>>> 14? >>>>> >>>>> If I continue with Latin, I will have to take Latin I and Latin II >>>>> online. (The main reason why I wanted to try Latin is so I can improve >>>>> my English vocabulary since most of the English language is from Latin >>>>> roots.) My school doesn't offer Latin. >>>>> >>>>> If I took Spanish I online, I could take Spanish II at school. >>>>> >>>>> What are your thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Winona >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From jenny26 at tds.net Fri May 31 17:28:10 2013 From: jenny26 at tds.net (Jennifer Hall) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 12:28:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Student Seminar Suggestions Message-ID: <51A8DDAA.4010305@tds.net> My name is Jennifer Hall, Board Member of the Kentucky Association of Blind Students. We are looking to increase membership across the state and would love to hear ideas from other divisions for student seminars. All suggestions are welcome and can be mailed to me offlist at: jenny26 at tds.net Blessings, Jennifer Hall (270) 559-1780 From trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com Fri May 31 21:50:24 2013 From: trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com (Winona Brackett) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 17:50:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Online Courses In-Reply-To: <4211389431401857394@unknownmsgid> References: <936344F8-3DC0-49D1-BEE8-0C69BD6F4B6D@aol.com> <718AD379E5E348E29C957B3937ECF548@acerd37f251f21> <38B2BDB7-7457-4F1E-B8DC-4F234C3D5CCD@gmail.com> <1333E1F0-A6B6-48F7-B6B2-519EDBC25FD2@me.com> <4211389431401857394@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <8A291AD9-E4A1-419F-9B86-7270FC52D5BF@gmail.com> Sorry I forgot to say that I am also using my BrailleNote as a Braille display. I am also wondering how to make jaws translate languages. Winona trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com "Your horn is just an amplifier for the music inside you." - Robert W. Smith Sent from my iPod using VoiceOver On May 31, 2013, at 6:54 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Kathryn, > > I'm curious as to how that works with your screen reader. How were you > able to ensure that your screen reader was pronouncing Spanish or > Latin words correctly? Did you change your speech synthesizer's > speaking language to that language when you were reading course > material? Also, how were you able to deal with Latin with a screen > reader? I haven't seen that as one of the language options, at least > in JAWS. Did you use a Braille display at any point during these > courses? > > Thanks, > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 30, 2013, at 11:28 PM, Kathryn Webster wrote: > >> In my personal experience, I have taken both Latin and Spanish. I would advise you to take Spanish. Please let me know if you have further questions. I rather not bombard everyone's inbox. >> Kathryn >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 30, 2013, at 7:27 PM, Kirt wrote: >> >>> If it were me personally, I think I would opt for Latin although I can understand why you would want to do Spanish. If you are set on Latin, I don't really see why you would need an eloquent synthesizer for it. It's not like Latin is something you would have to learn to speak perfectly, with the right accent, So I can't imagine pronunciation would matter nearly as much as it would with something like Spanish. However, I can see how having access to some sort of a braille display would be very helpful, although I imagine you could get by without one. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 30, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>> >>>> I took Spanish online also this past semester, and it went well except for the fact that the instructor used My Spanish Lab, which is not very accessible with JAWS. Otherwise, all of the other websites and course materials worked very well with JAWS. >>>> Misty >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridget Walker" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:25 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Online Courses >>>> >>>> >>>>> Jaws has a built in synthesizer for Spanish but, I can see why you want to take Latin. I would take Spanish only because of the fact that you must take the class on line. I know a jaws user who took Latin for three years but, I am pretty sure they used braille. I can ask them and get back to you ASAP if you would like. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Bridget >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On May 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Winona Brackett wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have to take two credits of one foreign language in order to meet >>>>>> graduation requirements. Because of scheduling, I have to take at >>>>>> least the first credit of the foreign language online through Florida >>>>>> Virtual School. I'm enro lled in Latin I currently. I'm having trouble >>>>>> learning the language and all the different word endings. What is >>>>>> Spanish like? Which course do you think is more accessible with JAWS >>>>>> 14? >>>>>> >>>>>> If I continue with Latin, I will have to take Latin I and Latin II >>>>>> online. (The main reason why I wanted to try Latin is so I can improve >>>>>> my English vocabulary since most of the English language is from Latin >>>>>> roots.) My school doesn't offer Latin. >>>>>> >>>>>> If I took Spanish I online, I could take Spanish II at school. >>>>>> >>>>>> What are your thoughts? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Winona >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org >>> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trumpetqueenwb%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Fri May 31 13:17:13 2013 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 09:17:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting a Mac for my birthday, recommendations wanted In-Reply-To: <9ACE5BAB-27D3-4271-9BDC-15DB3FEA6502@gmail.com> References: <876F37DB-8587-441B-9FBF-C308C1A12BD7@gmail.com> <9ACE5BAB-27D3-4271-9BDC-15DB3FEA6502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005201ce5e01$2a930720$7fb91560$@gmail.com> Would j aws keystrokes work the samewya on a mac wih windows eight, ro will you be using the mac voice over/ -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Díaz Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Getting a Mac for my birthday, recommendations wanted Any current Mac will run Windows 8 without any problems. Just don't worry about it. Choose the computer you want depending on your budget and needs and it will really run Windows 8 smoothly. On Jun 1, 2013, at 5:31 AM, Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer wrote: > For my 19th birthday and high school graduation, my parents said that they will be getting me a Mac. They wanted me to inquire from my sources, which one would be best given the following specifications: I would like to be able to have Windows 8 and a version of Mac running from the same computer, I know that this is possible using Boot Camp, among other methods. What specifications could I have to have a stable Windows 8 and Mac OS running from the same system? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! > > Sent from my iPhone 4S using VoiceOver > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at host.nfbnet.org http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40 gmail.com