[nabs-l] Over Night College Visit

Mon Nov 11 00:02:46 UTC 2013

Ok this thread is really helping my procrastination efforts...

I think the piece of advice that we are all missing here, that may be
the most important is that Lizzy has the final decision.  She knows
her dog, and yes, they may be a new team, but she did the training,
and knows her dog better than we do from the past few months.  I know
from personal experience being a young guide dog handler that
sometimes it's easy to feel overwhelmed by the responsibility.  But in
the end, your decision is the only one that carries any weight.

What will give you the most confidence as a handler will be to make a
decision based on logical judgement of the pros and cons and then act
accordingly.  Confidence as a guide dog handler grows over time.  If
it makes you feel better, do you have a guide dog user friend or two
to call in case of any weird behaviors?  That is, if you do choose to
bring the dog?

If you do not choose to bring the dog, do you truly trust that your
parents/friends will obey the rules that you lay down?  This is very
very important both as a matter of respect for you and as a new team.
I want you to be comfortable, have confidence in your decision, and
remember, take each piece of advice(yes, even mine :)) with a handful
of salt.  We all have our own biases.

P.S. Thank you for the complements.  My dog and I are a good team
because we have a strong bond, strengthened through the hard work we
do together as a team.  My dog works, and I give her love and the
boundaries she needs to succeed.

On 11/10/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> Greg, I've been around good dog handlers too, and I'm not trying to focus on
> the negative.
> I just want her to wait until the dog is used to her, and all that stuff
> before she puts it in that environment.
> I'm headed to church now.
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Greg Aikens
> [gpaikens at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:37 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>
> I think its unfortunate that whenever a thread about guide dogs comes up,
> there is a contingent that feels like its their job to pull out all of the
> guide dog horror stories they can think of.  Yes, we've all met bad guide
> dog handlers and it makes us uncomfortable.  I would dare say that as a
> guide dog handler, I am even more offended by badly behaved dogs than you
> are, because it reflects poorly on dogs in general.  Yours and my bad
> experiences though are no excuse for discouraging a young student from
> learning how to use her chosen mobility tool well.  It's also no excuse for
> putting down a specific guide dog school that you haven't attended yourself,
> and so by proxy putting down the dogs and handlers that come from that
> school.  Why isn't it ok to just say, "I haven't had great experiences with
> guide dogs in the past and I really don't think a guide dog is the mobility
> tool for me."
>
> It would make sense for people to share their own experiences related to the
> concerns at hand, i.e. sniffing, excitable guide dogs, bad first
> impressions, but I'm not sure how dog guides relieving themselves in
> inappropriate places has any place in this conversation.  It just feels like
> another dig at guide dogs in general, which is divisive and inflammatory in
> a group composed of people who use a variety of tools and techniques for
> travel.
>
> As I reread what I have written, I realize that my response might come off a
> little strong (must have hit a nerve or something).  Just be considerate of
> people who have different preferences than you, and think carefully about
> whether you are offering opinions and here say or good advice based on
> experience and knowledge.
>
> Best,
> Greg
> On Nov 10, 2013, at 5:32 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>
>> Great post, Ashley!
>> Also, what about the dogs that do their mess anywhere they want to, or
>> roam around the room, when not being handled?
>> That has happened way too much where I'm from!
>> Train them correctly, and expect them to act right!
>> You wouldn't believe the number of times I've accidently stepped in dog,
>> (don't even go there,) at conventions, and at World Services for the
>> Blind!
>> Most of these dogs, I knew came from a certain dog school, in CA, because
>> that's where most of those trainees at WSB, when I was there, got them!
>> That's the handlers' fault, and they should be doing their jobs!
>> Thank God this hasn't happened at the NFB conventions I attended!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett
>> [bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:21 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>>
>> Mark,
>> I guess we won't agree. But I cannot help from making a point again.
>> I have been offended by  disruptive guide dogs.
>> I would say to Lizzy to take the dog if it were not so new. I would have
>> no
>> problem with her with a dog on a new campus if it did not sniff people or
>> exhibit other behavior she mentioned.
>> I fully support taking a dog to college if you will live and stay there.
>>
>> You can say its people's problem for being offended all your life, but
>> when
>> you are lonely or do not get a job because of your dog's behavior, you
>> might
>> think again.
>>
>> I respect guide dog handlers and do know its their right to have them in
>> public places. However, I think with legal rights comes responsibility.
>> You
>> have the responsibility to keep your dog well groomed and behaving like a
>> working dog. This means no licks, no sniffs, and no jumps. Oh, and should
>> I
>> mention barks?
>> Yes, dogs will get excited with new people I know, even guide dogs. But
>> to
>> what extent should people put up with the dog in a professional setting
>> before saying enough is enough? It’s a hard line to draw. With rights
>> comes
>> responsibility.
>> I think you have to consider others too even though its your right to have
>> a
>> guide dog.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mark J. Cadigan
>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:11 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps you should ask your question on the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users (NAGDU) list serve. All the people on the NAGDU list are
>> themselves guide dog handlers, and have first hand experience to draw
>> from
>> when giving advice.
>>
>>
>>
>> Me personally, I am a guide dog handler, and current college student. I
>> would definitely take my dog with me on the college visit, and in fact I
>> have gone on college visits with my guide dog in the past. What people
>> say
>> about informing the college that you have a guide dog and requesting
>> accommodations for printed materials is good advice. I would definitely
>> do
>> so, not only to make your life easier while on the college visit, but to
>> get
>> an idea of the school's willingness to work with you when you are a
>> student.
>>
>>
>>
>> My theory about people not liking my guide dog is that it is there
>> problem
>> and not mine. I have the legal right to be accompanied by my guide dog,
>> and
>> if someone is offended for whatever reason to bad for them. That being
>> said,
>> you have to be polite to the people who are offended, however you should
>> stand your ground, and never back down on your rights.
>>
>>
>>
>> The people who think it is a simple decision to leave your dog with
>> someone
>> while on the college visit, are clearly not dog handlers, and have no
>> clue
>> what they are talking about. That being said, when you have your dog on
>> the
>> college visit, it is your responsibility to be firm with the dog, and not
>> let it test you. People may object to you correcting your dog, but they
>> are
>> just ignorant, and do your best to politely ignore them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Feel free to email me off list
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "lizzy" <lizzym0827 at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:44 AM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>>
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> I usually just read the outstanding advice given on this list, but now I
>>> am in need of some help.  I am currently a senior in high school going
>>> not
>>> for my first college visit, but to my first over night visit and it is
>>> at
>>> my number one choice school.  To all of the guide dog users, I've had my
>>> lab for about three and a half months now but I'm still undecided about
>>> if
>>> it would be fair and easier to take her with me on this trip.  My
>>> reasons
>>> are that I don't know the campus and so she would probably be doing a
>>> lot
>>> of following (which I know everyone has their own opinions about).  I've
>>> taught her things using the cane but it has usually been pretty simple
>>> (a
>>> specific doorway, bus stop etc) so I'm not sure if it'll work for this
>>> or
>>> not (since I'll be all over campus).  Also, her behavior is slightly
>>> unpredictable (typically she is very excited around new people and she
>>> is
>>> very sniffy in new places which interferes with her work and doesn't
>>> make
>>> her look like a trained dog).  I will be sitting in on a class, doing an
>>> interview, meeting with the department chair and rooming with a current
>>> student and I'm afraid she might offend someone who doesn't like dogs or
>>> vice versa someone may see me give a correction and be upset by it.  I
>>> haven't requested any accommodations because I don't really think I'll
>>> need any since I'll be there for less than twenty-four hours.  But is
>>> there anything I'm forgetting? Should I tell them ahead of time about
>>> the
>>> dog (if I decide to take her)? Any tips you all could give would be
>>> greatly appreciated.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16