[nabs-l] Training centers not the real world

[Bridget Walker]

To clarify the school for the blind I attended was not a bad school in fact the best in New York. At that I was highly proactive in my educational experience passing state regents exams which no one said I would. I did not fail myself out of mainstream school they gave up on me. I was mainstreamed until I was in eleventh grade. 
You make the argument students who attend a school for the blind are not prepared for college? 
Consider each situation I was mainstreamed all but two years of my education. Going back to the proactive student argument I went back to public Ed to finish my senior year curriculum. 
The work I was doing was an intensive independent study project that included an internship. It was a semester long. For those of you who may know it is WISE. I was required to keep a daily journal of my progress, keep track of all hours in my internship, meet with my mentor via Internet, conduct research, go to seminars, and give an in depth presentation on what I did for the semester This presentation was to a board of department heads, teachers, administrators, and students. 
At that I think that whole bit about students not  graduating on time does not apply. I am 20 and a junior in college. I went back to my mainstream school to graduate with the rest of my class because I was still taking classes there. Yes still a mainstream student. 
The things I got at the school for the blind were advanced algebra and trig, chem and physics, and foreign language which most mainstream students who are blind are exempt from though I don't  understand why. Did I play sports? Yes In mainstream I was in the diversity, drama, and outdoors club. I was in chorus and ran track for a season. 
Sent from my iPad

On Nov 11, 2013, at 6:01 PM, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Kaiti brings up some excellent points that I didn't consider until
> until now. I went to public school all my life and had many
> opportunities to be an integral part of my school community. I held
> leadership positions in various clubs and was an AP student. I don't
> think there are any schools for the blind out there that could give
> their students this level of academic rigor that would prepare them
> for college life. In fact, college enrollment right out of graduation,
> which I like to point out is usually at 21 instead of the normal 17-18
> is extremely rare if not nonexistent. As for the schools for the blind
> giving their students the chance to play sports that they wouldn't
> otherwise get in a mainstream school, I don't think that's valid at
> all. I didn't play any sports at all because I was into academics more
> than athletics, but there are sports that don't require sight such as
> cross country, swimming, wrestling, etc that mainstreamed students can
> participate in. Also, I think someone on an earlier post said that
> school districts don't care about blind students and they just want to
> ship them off to school for the blind because it's easier. That is an
> entirely pessimistic and untrue view of all school systems. I was able
> to excel in school because I had an amazing TVI as well as a wonderful
> support system from my teachers that helped me to realize my own
> potential. I think it definitely depends on the situation but I also
> think people should be more proactive in their own learning as well
> instead of waiting on others.
> 
> Minh
> 
> On 11/11/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I will admit upfront that I did not read this entire thread, as I am
>> trying to type a quick reply between classes, but here is what my
>> parents thought and what I believe as well.
>> 
>> I'm not in any way knocking training centers; I think they're great
>> for those who need or prefer to get the training they need in that
>> manner.  I think that choice is totally subjective to the individual
>> person.
>> 
>> However, in terms of schools for the blind, I have always been
>> thurroughly confused as to their purpose.  Like others I've talked to,
>> going to the school for the blind was a bad thing---a threat my mom
>> used to kick me into gear as a child.  If I didn't want to do my
>> homework, she'd threaten to send me to the Ohio State School for the
>> Blind, where people would make me do it, and I wouldn't get the choice
>> of doing it right after school or later before bed.  My mom also
>> wanted to instill the idea that I could be independent in me at a very
>> early age, so the idea of having someone else be so custodial over me
>> made me instantly do whatever it was that I didn't want to do at the
>> time.
>> 
>> In reality, my parents thought very briefly about sending me to the
>> state school when I was young, but a blind woman they consulted on the
>> matter said I was too bright for it.  I have the impression that most
>> schools for the blind provide sub-par academics, and while a much
>> larger portion of their student bodies have multiple disabilities in
>> addition to blindness, my parents did not want that to hold me back
>> from reaching my potential.  So, they enrolled me in my local
>> elementary school, and kept me in the public school system from
>> pre-school to graduation.  From what I've seen and heard this is the
>> case for an ever increasing number of blind students, who are capable
>> of doing the same work---even being labeled as gifted and going on to
>> be honors and AP students in high school.  Some of these kids do not
>> have the opportunities to do AP courses at schools for the blind, and
>> miss out on time and money-saving opportunities for college in the
>> process.
>> 
>> I disagree that going to a school for the blind hinders one's ability
>> to get involved in extracurriculars, even when you specifically talk
>> about sports.  My parents found non-profit organizations which hosted
>> sporting events for kids with disabilities and they worked out fine
>> for me.  Top Soccer was one I and a few friends of mine participated
>> in, and I did Special Olympics swimming when I was in middle school
>> too.  I think the advantage of doing sports through these
>> organizations rather than as a student at a school for the blind is
>> that you gain perspective on people with other disabilities; one of my
>> best friends in soccer was a boy who used a walker, and we became a
>> tag team on the field.  My job was to find the ball and get it down
>> field, then I would pass it to him and he'd take shots at the goal.
>> So, it was a nice way for us to learn that in spite of our
>> disabilities, we could still be successful, probably the design of our
>> parents.  I also getting really mad at a kid on the same team who was
>> the coach's son, because he would always push me down for what I
>> thought was no apparent reason.  It took me a while to understand that
>> he wasn't doing it to be mean or that he really couldn't help it, but
>> once I got it I was able to understand him and others like him better.
>> Even after I stopped participating in sports specifically set up for
>> kids with disabilities to participate, I still found activities to do
>> at school.  I was a member of the Academic Quiz Team, the drama club
>> and in the cast of a Shakespeare play, and even did marching band
>> without assistance.  I don't think you should expect adaptations or
>> modifications to be provided for you like they are at the schools for
>> the blind, and doing these things while taking a trial and error
>> approach to finding ways to do them as well as sighted classmates, is
>> one of the best ways to learn how to do it with other things in the
>> future.  Example, in quiz team I got my study packets in braille, and
>> read books on subjects that other kids weren't as familiar on, like
>> Genetics, Music History, and Anatomy to make up for the other subjects
>> I didn't have as much access to.  This worked out really well in cases
>> when the category was, "Composers from the 1600s," or "Anatomy of the
>> eye."  In marching band I worked with my director to come up with a
>> way for me to read the field diagrams, which to my knowledge is a
>> totally original system based on what my needs were and the solutions
>> we came up with to work.
>> 
>> I also think it is the responsibility of the parents to do a lot of
>> the training for their child.  I know my parents did it for me, and
>> although I resisted at times I'm thankful for what they did to help me
>> learn to be independent.  On that same note, I disagree with the claim
>> that blind people cannot teach themselves how to do things, as I
>> believe there should come a point where mom and dad should step back,
>> and you should have the confidence in your abilities to try to learn
>> to do things yourself.  That is what I'm doing now with cooking, and I
>> love how I'm teaching myself.  Have I burned things?  Yes.  Have I had
>> to put meat back on the stove to cook it a little longer because I
>> misjudged how cooked it really was?  Yes, but it's through experience
>> that we learn, and sometimes doing things ourselves is in our own
>> favor.  In the cooking vein, I've asked my mom to teach me before, but
>> she's always been busy, or when we have cooked she usually has ended
>> up taking over.  She also has a fear of me getting burned, so when I
>> got to college and wanted to make a burger, I didn't let the fact that
>> my mother never taught me hold me back from getting what I wanted,
>> even if my first attempt was not perfect.  Different parents will
>> teach their blind children different things, and sometimes they have
>> one thing they don't do as well as others in that area.  When those
>> weak areas become apparent and one has the resources and capability to
>> teach themself to make up for it, I think they should because
>> ultimately it is their independence that is effected.
>> 
>> I do not regret my parents decision to put me in public school,
>> because in spite of the rough patches where I didn't have a textbook
>> for my last year of Spanish, or my parents were duking it out in an
>> IEP meeting, I developed self-advocacy, independence, and
>> communication skills which are serving me well in college an hour away
>> from my family.  Even in cooking I am becoming more self-sufficient,
>> and I'm not afraid to figure things out as I go, problem-solve, and
>> make them work.  That, I think, is a skill that is lacking at the
>> schools of the blind since the staff is much more custodial.  I could
>> be wrong there, but that's what I've seen from my state school at
>> least.
>> 
>> Just my thoughts.
>> On 11/11/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> RJ,
>>> Your friend may also be able to speak to the director of whichever center
>>> she would like to attend, and arrangements may be able to be made for her
>>> to
>>> 
>>> bring her child with her. This probably would not work in a dormitory
>>> setting, but since the NFB centers use apartments instead of dormitories,
>>> sometimes, it can be worked out for a parent to bring their child to stay
>>> with them in the apartment while they attend the center. Your friend may
>>> have to work out child care or after school care for the child while she
>>> is
>>> 
>>> attending center classes during the day, but the director of the center
>>> may
>>> 
>>> be able to refer her to resources she can use for that or work with her
>>> on
>>> that aspect so she will be able to finish her training successfully.
>>> I am currently going through this myself, as I am a single mother, but
>>> the
>>> director has been willing to allow me to bring my child and also help me
>>> work out the child care situation so that I will have the opportunity to
>>> attend the center and get the training I need. I am planning to attend
>>> next
>>> 
>>> year, so I am not there yet, but the director has been very open to me
>>> bringing my child and has assured me that we will work everything out so
>>> I
>>> can attend. I am just in the process of getting VR in my state to allow
>>> me
>>> to go. The one I am trying to attend is the Colorado Center, but your
>>> friend
>>> 
>>> may be able to discuss her situation with any of the directors of any of
>>> the
>>> 
>>> centers she would like to attend, and they will probably work with her on
>>> it.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Misty
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Steve Jacobson
>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:44 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>> 
>>> RJ,
>>> 
>>> It is really hard to know what is going to work in an individual case
>>> such
>>> as that of your friend.  In general,
>>> though, one really has to weigh what learning certain skills well might
>>> mean
>>> 
>>> for bringing up a child in the long
>>> run.  I believe, for example, that it is pretty hard to become a
>>> confident
>>> independent traveler without putting in
>>> some serious time learning and experiencing.  If one is not a confident
>>> traveler, for example, one is going to
>>> find it more difficult to get one's child where that child needs to be,
>>> or
>>> to be there for that child.  Your
>>> friend may not have had any options in terms of family who could take
>>> care
>>> of the child, and there could be other
>>> considerations, but to simply state that one can't leave one's child to
>>> take
>>> 
>>> training seems very short-sighted to
>>> me, and I am a parent so I am not unfamiliar with the dilema.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:05:28 -0500, RJ Sandefur wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Men, Thank you for that point. My friend Rohanda went blind four years
>>>> ago.
>>>> Her daughter is Ten years old. Our ehab agency wanted to send her to a
>>>> training center. She doesn't want to leave her child. RJ
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "minh ha" <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep saying
>>>> how going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to
>>>> gain employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these
>>>> success stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain
>>>> employment afterwards because of their new found independence skills
>>>> and are these numbers higher than those that do not attend training
>>>> centers? Maybe it's different for me because I had vision for the
>>>> first few years of my life, but all the skills that I've acquired over
>>>> the years, I learned from my family and friends. I remember growing
>>>> up, cooking was one of the activities that my best friend and I
>>>> experimented together; she didn't know cooking skills either so we
>>>> played around in the kitchen and taught ourselves how to use a stove,
>>>> etc. I think we place too much responsibility on others--if I want to
>>>> learn something, I teach myself or I ask someone who knows it to teach
>>>> me. Furthermore, I can't see myself taking 6-9 months to essentially
>>>> remove myself from society to focus on blindness skills so I can gain
>>>> employment. I have had many internships and opportunities in college
>>>> because I actually go out there and network and present myself to
>>>> potential employers. My point is experience is the best teacher--I can
>>>> learn all the independence skills I need at a center, but it's not
>>>> going to do me any good without the experience.
>>> 
>>>> Minh
>>> 
>>>> On 11/10/13, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> good points thus far, and great discussion.
>>>>>  The idea of schools for the blind (at least as I understand them) is
>>>> that
>>>>> students in these  schools may get  the proper instruction in skills
>>>>> that
>>>>> would allow them to be  as successful in the classroom as their
>>>> classmates.
>>>>> They may also benefit from gaining access to sports that are adapted
>>>>> for
>>>> the
>>>>> blind where in the public school setting these things are not always
>>>> readily
>>>>> available .
>>>>>  In the training center environment, you are learning skills that will
>>>> help
>>>>> you   become confident and competent enough to  compete and  succeed
>>>>> in
>>>> the
>>>>> world.  in our NFB training centers, we learn the skills  that enable
>>>>> us
>>>> to
>>>>>  be successful and  gain the attitude and belief  that not only can we
>>>>> lead  productive  successful, and meaningful lives,  but that  this
>>>>> should
>>>>> be the exact expectation we should have for ourselves.
>>>>> So, while the implication one might get is that such learning
>>>> environments
>>>>> shelter  people  from the  real world , it is my view that generally
>>>>> speaking they can serve to help you be prepared  for that  real world
>>>>> in
>>>> a
>>>>> way that matriculating through mainstream schooling might leave  you
>>>>> otherwise ill equipped to do.
>>>>>   Darian
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
> 
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