[nabs-l] Training centers not the real world

[Beth Taurasi]

On 11/11/2013 2:15 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I will admit upfront that I did not read this entire thread, as I am
> trying to type a quick reply between classes, but here is what my
> parents thought and what I believe as well.
>
> I'm not in any way knocking training centers; I think they're great
> for those who need or prefer to get the training they need in that
> manner.  I think that choice is totally subjective to the individual
> person.
>
> However, in terms of schools for the blind, I have always been
> thurroughly confused as to their purpose.  Like others I've talked to,
> going to the school for the blind was a bad thing---a threat my mom
> used to kick me into gear as a child.  If I didn't want to do my
> homework, she'd threaten to send me to the Ohio State School for the
> Blind, where people would make me do it, and I wouldn't get the choice
> of doing it right after school or later before bed.  My mom also
> wanted to instill the idea that I could be independent in me at a very
> early age, so the idea of having someone else be so custodial over me
> made me instantly do whatever it was that I didn't want to do at the
> time.
>
> In reality, my parents thought very briefly about sending me to the
> state school when I was young, but a blind woman they consulted on the
> matter said I was too bright for it.  I have the impression that most
> schools for the blind provide sub-par academics, and while a much
> larger portion of their student bodies have multiple disabilities in
> addition to blindness, my parents did not want that to hold me back
> from reaching my potential.  So, they enrolled me in my local
> elementary school, and kept me in the public school system from
> pre-school to graduation.  From what I've seen and heard this is the
> case for an ever increasing number of blind students, who are capable
> of doing the same work---even being labeled as gifted and going on to
> be honors and AP students in high school.  Some of these kids do not
> have the opportunities to do AP courses at schools for the blind, and
> miss out on time and money-saving opportunities for college in the
> process.
>
> I disagree that going to a school for the blind hinders one's ability
> to get involved in extracurriculars, even when you specifically talk
> about sports.  My parents found non-profit organizations which hosted
> sporting events for kids with disabilities and they worked out fine
> for me.  Top Soccer was one I and a few friends of mine participated
> in, and I did Special Olympics swimming when I was in middle school
> too.  I think the advantage of doing sports through these
> organizations rather than as a student at a school for the blind is
> that you gain perspective on people with other disabilities; one of my
> best friends in soccer was a boy who used a walker, and we became a
> tag team on the field.  My job was to find the ball and get it down
> field, then I would pass it to him and he'd take shots at the goal.
> So, it was a nice way for us to learn that in spite of our
> disabilities, we could still be successful, probably the design of our
> parents.  I also getting really mad at a kid on the same team who was
> the coach's son, because he would always push me down for what I
> thought was no apparent reason.  It took me a while to understand that
> he wasn't doing it to be mean or that he really couldn't help it, but
> once I got it I was able to understand him and others like him better.
>   Even after I stopped participating in sports specifically set up for
> kids with disabilities to participate, I still found activities to do
> at school.  I was a member of the Academic Quiz Team, the drama club
> and in the cast of a Shakespeare play, and even did marching band
> without assistance.  I don't think you should expect adaptations or
> modifications to be provided for you like they are at the schools for
> the blind, and doing these things while taking a trial and error
> approach to finding ways to do them as well as sighted classmates, is
> one of the best ways to learn how to do it with other things in the
> future.  Example, in quiz team I got my study packets in braille, and
> read books on subjects that other kids weren't as familiar on, like
> Genetics, Music History, and Anatomy to make up for the other subjects
> I didn't have as much access to.  This worked out really well in cases
> when the category was, "Composers from the 1600s," or "Anatomy of the
> eye."  In marching band I worked with my director to come up with a
> way for me to read the field diagrams, which to my knowledge is a
> totally original system based on what my needs were and the solutions
> we came up with to work.
>
> I also think it is the responsibility of the parents to do a lot of
> the training for their child.  I know my parents did it for me, and
> although I resisted at times I'm thankful for what they did to help me
> learn to be independent.  On that same note, I disagree with the claim
> that blind people cannot teach themselves how to do things, as I
> believe there should come a point where mom and dad should step back,
> and you should have the confidence in your abilities to try to learn
> to do things yourself.  That is what I'm doing now with cooking, and I
> love how I'm teaching myself.  Have I burned things?  Yes.  Have I had
> to put meat back on the stove to cook it a little longer because I
> misjudged how cooked it really was?  Yes, but it's through experience
> that we learn, and sometimes doing things ourselves is in our own
> favor.  In the cooking vein, I've asked my mom to teach me before, but
> she's always been busy, or when we have cooked she usually has ended
> up taking over.  She also has a fear of me getting burned, so when I
> got to college and wanted to make a burger, I didn't let the fact that
> my mother never taught me hold me back from getting what I wanted,
> even if my first attempt was not perfect.  Different parents will
> teach their blind children different things, and sometimes they have
> one thing they don't do as well as others in that area.  When those
> weak areas become apparent and one has the resources and capability to
> teach themself to make up for it, I think they should because
> ultimately it is their independence that is effected.
>
> I do not regret my parents decision to put me in public school,
> because in spite of the rough patches where I didn't have a textbook
> for my last year of Spanish, or my parents were duking it out in an
> IEP meeting, I developed self-advocacy, independence, and
> communication skills which are serving me well in college an hour away
> from my family.  Even in cooking I am becoming more self-sufficient,
> and I'm not afraid to figure things out as I go, problem-solve, and
> make them work.  That, I think, is a skill that is lacking at the
> schools of the blind since the staff is much more custodial.  I could
> be wrong there, but that's what I've seen from my state school at
> least.
>
> Just my thoughts.
> On 11/11/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> RJ,
>> Your friend may also be able to speak to the director of whichever center
>> she would like to attend, and arrangements may be able to be made for her to
>>
>> bring her child with her. This probably would not work in a dormitory
>> setting, but since the NFB centers use apartments instead of dormitories,
>> sometimes, it can be worked out for a parent to bring their child to stay
>> with them in the apartment while they attend the center. Your friend may
>> have to work out child care or after school care for the child while she is
>>
>> attending center classes during the day, but the director of the center may
>>
>> be able to refer her to resources she can use for that or work with her on
>> that aspect so she will be able to finish her training successfully.
>> I am currently going through this myself, as I am a single mother, but the
>> director has been willing to allow me to bring my child and also help me
>> work out the child care situation so that I will have the opportunity to
>> attend the center and get the training I need. I am planning to attend next
>>
>> year, so I am not there yet, but the director has been very open to me
>> bringing my child and has assured me that we will work everything out so I
>> can attend. I am just in the process of getting VR in my state to allow me
>> to go. The one I am trying to attend is the Colorado Center, but your friend
>>
>> may be able to discuss her situation with any of the directors of any of the
>>
>> centers she would like to attend, and they will probably work with her on
>> it.
>> Thanks,
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve Jacobson
>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:44 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>
>> RJ,
>>
>> It is really hard to know what is going to work in an individual case such
>> as that of your friend.  In general,
>> though, one really has to weigh what learning certain skills well might mean
>>
>> for bringing up a child in the long
>> run.  I believe, for example, that it is pretty hard to become a confident
>> independent traveler without putting in
>> some serious time learning and experiencing.  If one is not a confident
>> traveler, for example, one is going to
>> find it more difficult to get one's child where that child needs to be, or
>> to be there for that child.  Your
>> friend may not have had any options in terms of family who could take care
>> of the child, and there could be other
>> considerations, but to simply state that one can't leave one's child to take
>>
>> training seems very short-sighted to
>> me, and I am a parent so I am not unfamiliar with the dilema.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:05:28 -0500, RJ Sandefur wrote:
>>
>>> Men, Thank you for that point. My friend Rohanda went blind four years
>>> ago.
>>> Her daughter is Ten years old. Our ehab agency wanted to send her to a
>>> training center. She doesn't want to leave her child. RJ
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "minh ha" <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:33 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>
>>> All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep saying
>>> how going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to
>>> gain employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these
>>> success stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain
>>> employment afterwards because of their new found independence skills
>>> and are these numbers higher than those that do not attend training
>>> centers? Maybe it's different for me because I had vision for the
>>> first few years of my life, but all the skills that I've acquired over
>>> the years, I learned from my family and friends. I remember growing
>>> up, cooking was one of the activities that my best friend and I
>>> experimented together; she didn't know cooking skills either so we
>>> played around in the kitchen and taught ourselves how to use a stove,
>>> etc. I think we place too much responsibility on others--if I want to
>>> learn something, I teach myself or I ask someone who knows it to teach
>>> me. Furthermore, I can't see myself taking 6-9 months to essentially
>>> remove myself from society to focus on blindness skills so I can gain
>>> employment. I have had many internships and opportunities in college
>>> because I actually go out there and network and present myself to
>>> potential employers. My point is experience is the best teacher--I can
>>> learn all the independence skills I need at a center, but it's not
>>> going to do me any good without the experience.
>>> Minh
>>> On 11/10/13, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>   good points thus far, and great discussion.
>>>>    The idea of schools for the blind (at least as I understand them) is
>>> that
>>>> students in these  schools may get  the proper instruction in skills
>>>> that
>>>> would allow them to be  as successful in the classroom as their
>>> classmates.
>>>> They may also benefit from gaining access to sports that are adapted for
>>> the
>>>> blind where in the public school setting these things are not always
>>> readily
>>>> available .
>>>>    In the training center environment, you are learning skills that will
>>> help
>>>> you   become confident and competent enough to  compete and  succeed  in
>>> the
>>>> world.  in our NFB training centers, we learn the skills  that enable us
>>> to
>>>>    be successful and  gain the attitude and belief  that not only can we
>>>> lead  productive  successful, and meaningful lives,  but that  this
>>>> should
>>>> be the exact expectation we should have for ourselves.
>>>>   So, while the implication one might get is that such learning
>>> environments
>>>> shelter  people  from the  real world , it is my view that generally
>>>> speaking they can serve to help you be prepared  for that  real world
>>>> in
>>> a
>>>> way that matriculating through mainstream schooling might leave  you
>>>> otherwise ill equipped to do.
>>>>     Darian
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>> --
>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
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>>
>>
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>
Hi, Misty and all,
St. Augustine's School for the Blind is indeed too custodial for me and 
too conservative for others.  I met my love and life at the Colorado 
Center for the Blind, and it's really a nice thing for both of us, but 
then a sighted person tried to reteach the skills because the things 
were not clean enough.  Like the shower or toilet. I was cleaning, and 
she would judge why or what was clean. I ended up saying, "Forget it.  
This is not going to work." I shouldn't have done it, but I"m being 
alienated by others because I have long term care. I already knew I was 
diagnosed with bipolar, and this oculd be a problem. Blake and I are 
trying to work something out sohe can work and so can I, but workplaces 
are wary of having blind and something else people in them, so Idk why I 
went to CCB in the first place, but then as I continue to cook for 
myself, yes, I realize it's the best choice I made. However, my parents 
still have a legal situation to work out, and they still try to refuse 
to get to know the person I wish tospend my life with, and so on.  They 
still believe the thoughts and attitudes that their baby girl is 
property, not a person. I can't be my own person in their mind, and it's 
really hard for me to understand why.  Training centers can't possibly 
be a real world thing because in hick town Florida, it's definitely not 
real. People take your rights from you as a disabled person, and because 
of that, I've been more anxious about skills than others, and I'd rather 
have someone clean the place up than have a sighted person walk in and 
say, "This place is filthy/not clean enough."
Beth