[nabs-l] Training centers not the real world

Wed Nov 13 00:50:53 UTC 2013

Ashley, The reason why I said Blind centers are a joke, is because after
what happened to me, I became depressed to the point where I'd go to class
at the center having not brushed my teath, I hadn't shaved in days, and my
room had not been cleaned, and this is how my parents found me. The staff
acted surprised and my fathers words were, "You people didn't teachmy son a
God damn thing!" So he took me out of there and my aunt had to teach me
herself! I'd come their willing to learn, and had left their a complete
nobody... a shell.. RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world


> Desiree,
> Good question; I think Gedi said what you're refering to.
> At the center you attended, did they give constructive critisism?
> If you were dressed inappropriately or had stains on your clothes, did
they
> say something and have you change?
> I know you told me on another list they taught and expected good eating
> skills at pittsburg; that is good.
>
> I've also heard nfb centers are harsh, and I, too, wonder how on earth you
> can build self esteem then.
> Also, since you are not explicitly taught, its structured discovery, it
> seems to me that the failures and mistakes you'd make would not garner
self
> confidence. I know if I spend two hours in cooking class and my food came
> out wrong like sour or something, I would feel terrible.
> I have a psychological trait as a perfectionist.
> So I fail to see how this guess work of structured discovery helpus and
> harshness certainly does not help me.
> My feelings get hurt easily  and then I engage in bad behaviors. I easily
am
> stressed out and have anxiety.
> I do not take pressure well.
>
> So, I'd rather be in a center which has a more nurturing environment. I'm
> not saying the nfb center way is wrong, just that, maybe for some people,
> the tough approach, being thrown to the wolves sort of speak, would not be
> the best fit for all of us.
>
> I had a taste of structured discovery in richmond and it was awful. I was
> not wearing those awful sleepshades on solo lessons, still, I felt
> disoriented and very vunerable.
> You never know what crazys are in the city. I would listen to the traffic
> and could not tell if it was my turn to cross; this is because you need a
> surge of traffic, and no surge came; other times, many cars came, but some
> turned and I did not know if it was safe. so I got sighted assistance.
> I did not feel very confident about my abilities but rather lost; I have
> problems with spatial directions and O&M is always my weak area.
> I did gain a little confidence when going to the malls; I was dropped off
at
> malls and told to find certain stores and meet the instructor at a certain
> department.
> I did that with some issues, but did make it. It helped me feel better
about
> my indoor travel; I was able to remember and perform the directions
> strangers gave me. so since I was successful in that  endeavor, I think it
> was helpful. But not for outside travel.
>
> Anyway, good question desiree. can I write off list to this address? We
> should chat about the PA center.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Desiree Oudinot
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:32 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>
> Hi all,
> I apologize for not quoting the message I wish to speak about, but there
> are so many that I've somehow lost it in the shuffle.
> Someone, I can't remember who it was now, said something to the effect
> that when one goes to a training center, they can expect to be
> criticized, both constructively and harshly. The message in question
> seemed to imply that this happened regularly.
> Please forgive me if I have this wrong, and I sincerely hope I do, but
> what, exactly, is a person supposed to get out of being harshly
> criticized by staff who are supposed to be helping the students achieve
> their goals? Positive affirmations go a long way in building someone up,
> and if that's what the NFB centers are supposed to do, I should hope
> that this is a priority.
> If tearing someone to the ground is a reflection of the world at large,
> how is this supposed to help students gain self-esteem? People, being
> people, have varying degrees of resilience, varying levels of emotional
> sensitivity, and are already being asked to push their limits in a huge
> way while training. And let's not even get into things like people who
> have depression or another form of mental health difficulty. This seems
> like a fragile time indeed. Not something you would want to go blowing
> down like a house of cards!
> I apologize for the strong tone of this message, but I really don't
> think that encouraging people to believe that the world is out to remind
> them of their faults on a daily basis is very healthy.
>
> On 11/12/2013 6:10 PM, Jedi Moerke wrote:
> > The Federation does not scorn people with multiple disabilities. In
fact,
> > some of our best students have multiple disabilities. I myself was
> > involved in training a couple of them while I worked at the Louisiana
> > Center for the blind. They were not treated more positively nor
negatively
> > than  anyone else present. If you felt any scorn at  all, it is from
> > individuals in the federation, not from the organization itself nor any
of
> > its training centers. While  I am sorry that you felt disrespected by
some
> > folks in the federation, I would encourage you not to paint the
> > organization was such a large brush, especially when you're
generalization
> > is not accurate.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 12, 2013, at 2:34 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Good morning,
> >>
> >>         After associating with, both on and off school time with
students
> >> at an NFB training center in Colorado, I feel I got a sampling of what
> >> being steeped in the teachings of the Federation could entail. The life
> >> path which found me did not include being a student at a center until
> >> much later but dished out a round of brain damage instead.
> >> Despite how the Federation pretty openly scorns us "multi handicapped"
> >> people, I know my brain wouldn't be able to process everything they
threw
> >> at it. So, mr. CP, I know your pain.very well for today, Car
> >> 408-209-3239wrote:
> >>> You didn't read the thread. Their are some blind people who aren't
able
> >>> to
> >>> attend a center.RJ
> >>> I personally attended a center, and that is not my cup of tea. I have
a
> >>> secondary disability which requires I have help. If I were to leave
> >>> Florida,
> >>> then I would lose my provider, and my CP is progressive
> >>> Had my family known about the NFB centers back in 1999, then I'd have
> >>> attended but it is 20013, and my CP has progressed since then.
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 1:52 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi all,
> >>>>
> >>>> I think there is some confusion about what a training center is, so I
> >>>> will try to more clearly define the term.  When we refer to training
> >>>> centers, we are speaking specifically about either the Louisiana
> >>>> Center for the Blind, the Colorado Center for the Blind, or Blind
Inc.
> >>>>   Other rehab agencies, like the Cleveland Sight Center, Richmond,
and
> >>>> Lions World, offer some of the same services but are very different.
> >>>> To be rehabilitated connotates that blindness is a problem in need of
> >>>> fixing, but training implies working to more effectively use skills.
> >>>> The outlook of some staff at rehab agencies is not very good, but to
> >>>> be trained under those who are well-versed in the positive philosophy
> >>>> of the NFB is totally different.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would encourage you to talk to one of the three training center
> >>>> directors.  They're all great people, and could probably do the best
> >>>> job of explaining what the training centers have to offer.  ;
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11/12/13, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Is this something the NFB could look at as a possibility? RJ
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:33 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think a volunteer-based in-home training program like what
Bridgit
> >>>>>> described would be really excellent to have in  every state. I know
a
> >>>>>> bunch of blind folks who are unemployed but who would make great
> >>>>>> in-home teachers for other blind people. Why not set them up first
as
> >>>>>> volunteers, and then allow them to be hired as independent
> >>>>>> contractors
> >>>>>> of the state VR once they gain enough experience? At the very
least,
> >>>>>> voc rehab needs to be better about matching blind mentors up with
> >>>>>> menttes particularly those who cannot go to a formal center. Those
of
> >>>>>> us who have other disabilities or health conditions need the help
> >>>>>> most
> >>>>>> and tend to get it least.
> >>>>>> I will also admit that I've met several NFB center grads who remain
> >>>>>> unemployed for a long time after graduating, and often settle down
in
> >>>>>> the town where the center is located but don't participate in
school
> >>>>>> or work. This can happen for many reasons. Some have barriers to
> >>>>>> employment or higher education that the centers just can't address,
> >>>>>> like psychiatric conditions, chronic illnesses etc. For others who
> >>>>>> come to the center from out of state, they find it difficult to
> >>>>>> integrate what they learn into their old environment, for instance
if
> >>>>>> they have over-protective families or a lack of blindness community
> >>>>>> support where they live. And finally, our centers are really
designed
> >>>>>> to teach access and independence skills but they're not designed to
> >>>>>> teach job-specific professional skills or much in the way of
academic
> >>>>>> skills. Perhaps our centers could improve on that, though I don't
> >>>>>> know
> >>>>>> exactly how.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Arielle
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> I have often told my employers about blindness training and how it
> >>>>>>> made me an effective problem solver. Use it to your advantage. I
was
> >>>>>>> in a quandry of having a school year look blank on my resume or
not,
> >>>>>>> so I choose to list it. I also explain how my experiences have
> >>>>>>> helped
> >>>>>>> me and how they will make me a more effective employee. But that
is
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> personal choice. I may have missed a few interviews because of
> >>> listing
> >>>>>>> it, but I have also gotten some.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cindy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 11/11/13, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Ashley, the rehab center I attended did not teach any job skills
or
> >>>>>>>> anything. Sure they had us read a bunch of hand outs, but any one
> >>> can
> >>>>>>>> read
> >>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>> bunch of hand outs and pass a test! RJ
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:28 PM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RJ,
> >>>>>>>>> They do teach job skills. just talk to  a center graduate and
> >>> you'll
> >>>>> get
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> answer.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>> From: RJ Sandefur
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:18 PM
> >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I could be wrong here, but I don't really see where
rehabilitation
> >>>>>>>>> centers
> >>>>>>>>> are teaching both social and job skills. RJ
> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Minh,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> You seem to have had a very fortunate experience. I lost my
sight
> >>>>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>> an
> >>>>>>>>>> adult, but in my experience, most blind people, especially
> >>>>>>>>>> children,
> >>>>>>>>>> don't have an experience like yours. If more families adopted
an
> >>>>>>>>>> attitude like yours, we may not be having this discussion.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> And on a side note, I notice few people have analytical
reasoning
> >>>>>>>>>> skills
> >>>>>>>>>> and the ability to be self-taught regardless of disability.
Some
> >>>>>>>>>> people,
> >>>>>>>>>> for whatever reason, don't possess the ability to learn this
way,
> >>>>>>>>>> therefore requiring a more formal teaching process.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> And life skills, these can easily be taught to blind people
> >>> without
> >>>>>>>>>> shipping off to a specialized training center. But skills like
> >>>>>>>>>> Braille,
> >>>>>>>>>> adaptive technology, cane travel, etc., these are specialized
> >>>>>>>>>> skills
> >>>>>>>>>> that are not always easily picked up. It's for these skills
that
> >>>>>>>>>> training centers are necessary.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I think how we comport ourselves has a lot to do with how the
> >>> world
> >>>>>>>>>> perceives us and our abilities. Right or wrong, when you
present
> >>>>>>>>>> yourself to an employer, they are immediately judging you based
> >>> on
> >>>>>>>>>> physical appearance. If you walk in well-groomed, confident and
> >>>>>>>>>> polite,
> >>>>>>>>>> this goes a long way, sighted or blind. If you enter a room
> >>>>> appearing
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> not be confident and not looking polished physically and
> >>> mentally,
> >>>>> an
> >>>>>>>>>> employer will automatically have red flags. This is just human
> >>>>> nature.
> >>>>>>>>>> So, sadly, few blind people are provided the experience
afforded
> >>>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>> this department. They don't naturally possess confidence, and
> >>>>>>>>>> regretfully, many people in their lives do not foster a spirit
of
> >>>>>>>>>> confidence. So without training centers, I do think fewer
people
> >>>>> would
> >>>>>>>>>> be employed. This isn't to say that getting a job will be easy
as
> >>> a
> >>>>>>>>>> blind person because you received training or carry yourself
with
> >>>>>>>>>> confidence, but your chances certainly are better.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> And yes, a few studies have been conducted pointing to the
> >>>>>>>>>> advantage
> >>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>> attending a training center for the blind. Those with this
> >>>>> background,
> >>>>>>>>>> especially those not taught nonvisual skills beforehand, do
> >>> better
> >>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>> school, employment and life in general.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Bridgit
> >>>>>>>>>> Message: 3
> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:33:06 -0500
> >>>>>>>>>> From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> >>>>>>>>>> Message-ID:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>> <CAAJqG9hYUgmy=_M2GLmwOmdknimkhUc6Y=Fgg8fBdHC0z6RX-g at mail.gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep
> >>>>>>>>>> saying
> >>>>>>>>>> how
> >>>>>>>>>> going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need
to
> >>>>> gain
> >>>>>>>>>> employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these
> >>>>>>>>>> success
> >>>>>>>>>> stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain
> >>> employment
> >>>>>>>>>> afterwards because of their new found independence skills and
are
> >>>>>>>>>> these
> >>>>>>>>>> numbers higher than those that do not attend training centers?
> >>>>>>>>>> Maybe
> >>>>>>>>>> it's different for me because I had vision for the first few
> >>> years
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>>>>> life, but all the skills that I've acquired over the years, I
> >>>>> learned
> >>>>>>>>>> from my family and friends. I remember growing up, cooking was
> >>> one
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>> the activities that my best friend and I experimented together;
> >>> she
> >>>>>>>>>> didn't know cooking skills either so we played around in the
> >>>>>>>>>> kitchen
> >>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> taught ourselves how to use a stove, etc. I think we place too
> >>> much
> >>>>>>>>>> responsibility on others--if I want to learn something, I teach
> >>>>> myself
> >>>>>>>>>> or I ask someone who knows it to teach me. Furthermore, I can't
> >>> see
> >>>>>>>>>> myself taking 6-9 months to essentially remove myself from
> >>> society
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> focus on blindness skills so I can gain employment. I have had
> >>> many
> >>>>>>>>>> internships and opportunities in college because I actually go
> >>> out
> >>>>>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>>>> and network and present myself to potential employers. My point
> >>> is
> >>>>>>>>>> experience is the best teacher--I can learn all the
independence
> >>>>>>>>>> skills
> >>>>>>>>>> I need at a center, but it's not going to do me any good
without
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> experience.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Minh
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gm
> >>>>>>>>> ail.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info
> >>> for
> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> >>>>>>>> net
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info
> >>> for
> >>>>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gm
> >>>>>>>> ail.com
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>> for
> >>>>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Cindy Bennett
> >>>>>>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> >>>>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>
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> >>>>> ail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>
> >>>
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> >>> l.com
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Kaiti
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
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> >>> ail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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.net
> >>
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m
> >
>
> --
> Desiree
>
>
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