[nabs-l] Need Some Encouragement/Some Travel Questions...

Wed Nov 27 13:38:56 UTC 2013

That is a rather interesting way you have of getting across the street
Carly.  Sometimes you just got to do what you got to do. Can't argue with
that.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly Mihalakis
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:27 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; 'National
Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Some Encouragement/Some Travel Questions...

Good mornng, Andrew,

Just wanted to see if you knew!!
for today,
408-209-3239CarAt 11:19 PM 11/26/2013, justin williams wrote:
>That was Andrew who is our resident Canadian, not me.  It's good though; I'
>sure he saw the message.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly 
>Mihalakis
>Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:30 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; National 
>Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Some Encouragement/Some Travel Questions...
>
>
>
>Hi, Justin,
>
>          To frame your frustration, in terms of your life in Canada is 
>not inclusive of the whole picture, and I imagine you know this.
>After all, there are rural areas of the US in which blinks tend to 
>languish, in the same way there are probably big cities in Canada 
>which, if relocated too, can offer the opportunity for independence you
crave.Do some research.
>Find yourself a training program situated in a Canadian province in 
>which you wish to live. then, look at training centers as a way to 
>establish residency and, if you find nothing that tickles your fancy, 
>then see about coming to a training center Stateside. There is no 
>reason if you have access to GOOGLE, you need to be languishing in the 
>country with no access to means of exercising free will, if you want it.
>for today, Car
>408-209-3239-08-209-3230 a
> >Hi I myself  can identify with you a bit. I live in the country with 
> >no transit or busses or anything like that I  live out in the middle 
> >of nowhere.  I actually have to count on my family to take me places 
> >or somebody to drive me places to take me into town and things. I 
> >find that very frusterating as it keeps me from doing all I really 
> >would want to do it is not like I can go down a street to a coffee 
> >shop.  I don't have streets here it is just long gravel roads.
> >
> >  I  can't really be independent while living in the country.  You 
> >people in the states are very  lucky to have the big training centers 
> >Canada does not have that at all.  I been considering moving into a 
> >big city for these reasons brought out by people on this list.  and 
> >so I can have a life of my own and things.
> >
> >On 11/26/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > justin,
> > > I like to do the same thing. It combines route travel with
> > exploration. Once
> > > I know the environment, I'll go a little off course to see what is
>there.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: justin williams
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:03 PM
> > > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Some Encouragement/Some Travel Questions...
> > >
> > > Once I know an area, I do like to wander around and look at the 
> > > side trails just in case I get entangled or a little off the path 
> > > so that I know what happened and how to correct myself if this occurs.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Ashley Bramlett
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 7:47 PM
> > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Some Encouragement/Some Travel Questions...
> > >
> > > Kerri,
> > > I think Cindy had some excellent points.
> > > I wanted to add a little more and respond to these questions.
> > >
> > > Is anybody else on this list also a route traveler or who has to 
> > > stick primarily to someone showing them where something is first?
> > > Does anyone on here have to use a local mobility instructor to 
> > > show them where things are? If so, what was your experience?
> > >
> > >
> > > My response:
> > > I have not been to a nfb center and don't plan to but I might try 
> > > an out of state center.
> > > However, as I have spatial challenges, I anticipate always needing 
> > > guidance in mapping out routes I'll do over and over, no matter 
> > > how much training I have. To some extent, I think I will be a 
> > > route traveler for sake of my sanity and time. Discovering new 
> > > ways takes more time and I feel that going unfamiliar places outdoors
is scary.
> > > I mean, you have the whole world out there. Sure I'd go out and 
> > > stroll around if I had the time and
> > knew it was a
> > > fairly safe area. But if I need to get to say, a doctor's office, 
> > > I'm not going around to figure out what is around it. I'd probably 
> > > follow a route that someone showed me or gave me directions to. 
> > > For me, I believe route travel would be the fastest and less nerve 
> > > racking
>thing.
> > >
> > > Sighted people use routes too. They often take the same route to 
> > > go to work or the same store all the time.
> > > So, learning a route to work or a grocery store is fine, nothing 
> > > wrong with that.
> > > I would use a reliable friend or family member, or if that doesn't 
> > > work I'd ask a mobility instructor.
> > > Many instructors  will let you discover more and problem solve. If 
> > > you intend to do a route over and over, having a mobility 
> > > instructor assist in orientation is helpful. Do you know how you 
> > > learn best? If writing down directions helps you remember it, then 
> > > either you or the instructor can do that. If you learn well with 
> > > maps, your O&M instructor can make a
> > map of the
> > > area.
> > >
> > > I have used the O&M service from our vr agency, dept for the blind 
> > > and vision impaired or DBVI.
> > > All instructors but one were fine.
> > > I mentioned my O&M growing up last email; my instruction growing
> > up was real
> > > route based and I was not encouraged to problem solve and did not 
> > > analyze intersections.
> > > However, as an adult, I have had more success. The worst part of
> > O&M was the
> > > frequency. I received it a few times per month in my community; 
> > > they have too many to serve to teach you more consistently.
> > > Instruction was more helpful. I feel that instructors were more 
> > > open to teaching me what I needed and how I learned best. The 
> > > downside was one of them told me to rely too much on my vision.
> > > I was shown techniques to ride our WMATA subway system called the
> > metro. The
> > > instructor explained the layouts of different types of stations 
> > > and gave me a braille guide of stations which shows which line 
> > > stations are
>on.
> > > She told me to listen for our stop and if I could not hear it, I'd 
> > > ask someone which stop we were at. She told me that most times 
> > > color lines alternated, but to be sure of the color, I'd have to ask
someone.
> > > She had me interact with the public and fellow riders just as I 
> > > would do alone. I had to take responsibility for finding the right 
> > > train and getting off it and out of the station. I also learned 
> > > more about crossing streets including pressing buttons to activate 
> > > those pedestrian walk
> > signs. She also
> > > oriented me to college. There is more, but those are highlights. I 
> > > was also shown how to use the metro to go to a few internships.
> > > If you want more info on this, I can explain.
> > >
> > > So to answer your questions, yes and yes. I have done mostly 
> > > routes, and I have used agency O&M instruction.
> > > I don't think all problems disappear after training. If O&M is a 
> > > hard skill for you, it will always be that way. But you can still 
> > > travel,
> > just may need
> > > you use other ways.
> > >
> > > I also wanted to add something about sighted people. You said
> > sighted people
> > > don't have to be shown anything. I believe that is inaccurate.
> > > Sighted people use guidance too. Some have better spatial memories 
> > > than others just as blind people do.
> > > Its just not obvious because sighted people see maps which 
> > > represent miles of space on paper. They also see signs.
> > > Sighted people might have a friend show them where building y or x is.
> > > They might go out and find it  if they know the general area and 
> > > then read numbers to locate a specific address.
> > > My mom has gone out to find places before she has appointments so 
> > > she knows where it is in order to find it quickly with time pressure.
> > > Sighted people also ask for directions a lot in new environments.
> > > So while they may not have as much hands on guidance as us, they 
> > > certainly use some guidance.
> > > Its via maps or verbal directions or computer directions. Also 
> > > sighted and blind people can use GPS which is almost like someone 
> > > showing you where building y is because GPS gives you turn by turn
>directions.
> > > Its not like all sighted people know where everything is and just 
> > > take off and go. No, not at the beginning at least. They have to 
> > > use tools to help them out too.
> > >
> > > How is the public transit in your area? II f its bad, I hope you 
> > > can move soon to be more independent.
> > > Meanwhile remember other ways to travel and don't be so hard on
>yourself.
> > > You could use paratransit if that exists. You could use taxis. You 
> > > might be able to get a driver from a community club to drop you 
> > > off somewhere like a strip mall while you shop. Check with the 
> > > lions clubs; then take
> > your driver
> > > out to lunch or something as payment.
> > >
> > > Could you take a taxi to that dollar store you mentioned? I know 
> > > cabs are expensive, but once in a while you might be able to afford
it.
> > > It sounds like you feel trapped and I know how that can e. When I 
> > > was at college, I used the campus shuttle to get to the metro 
> > > station and from there I went to the mall or nearby restaurants.
> > > When I came home, I missed the freedom I had; I cannot walk to a 
> > > bus stop as it's a
> > dangerous busy road
> > > with no sidewalks. I can use paratransit and taxis though.
> > > I think you'll be fine. Just try and get out as much as possible 
> > > so you can practice your skills.
> > > HTH,
> > > Ashley
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Kerri Kosten
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:26 PM
> > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > > Subject: [nabs-l] Need Some Encouragement/Some Travel Questions...
> > >
> > > Hi Everyone:
> > >
> > > I hope it's okay for me to post this. I have debated for a long
> > time whether
> > > to post about this but I feel like everyone else is allowed to 
> > > post on topics such as family issues and other things so I figured 
> > > I'd post my frustrations.
> > > I really just want some encouragement, and to know whether I am
> > the only one
> > > going through this.
> > > I am totally blind, and in addition to my blindness I have severe 
> > > hearing loss. I can hear sounds and can communicate with people 
> > > and such, but I can't tell which direction sounds are coming from.
> > > Basically, my hearing really affects my travel.
> > > Last year, I graduated from the Louisiana Center for The Blind. I 
> > > really enjoyed it, and I really enjoyed cane travel class. I enjoy 
> > > using my cane and traveling.
> > > Anyway, because of my hearing loss, and the fact I am not that 
> > > great at mental mapping, I did a lot of routes in training. My 
> > > instructor told me when I returned home if someone (anyone) showed 
> > > me where to go around my area I'd be okay.
> > > To make a long story short, I returned home and things didn't
> > happen as they
> > > were supposed to.
> > > I guess I just feel frustrated because I don't feel like I get to 
> > > use my cane that much. Sure, I can go to the mall, or a game or 
> > > somewhere indoors and to get directions from people but where I am 
> > > not getting much practice is outdoors like walking from city block 
> > > to
>block and crossing streets.
> > > Another thing that frustrates me is when I do finally get someone
> > to show me
> > > something I love it because I get to really use my cane and then I 
> > > have to wait a week or more to be able to go out there again.
> > > For example, there is a Dollar General store located across the 
> > > street from me. The problem is first though that this particular 
> > > street is extremely busy. I am unable to cross busy streets or 
> > > lighted intersections without assistance because of my hearing loss.
> > > I arranged for someone to help me cross the street. However, I 
> > > forgot one thing. This dollar general has a huge parking lot that 
> > > is open and has no landmarks and I can't hear the echos from the
building.
> > > I had a friend on Saturday walk with me to the dollar General
> > just to try to
> > > map it out and see how big the parking lot was. With this friend,
> > I was able
> > > to use my braille compass, and work on mental mapping and such 
> > > just like I was taught in training. Well, my friend can't help me 
> > > again for
> > another week
> > > or so.
> > > I just wish I got to work on the things such as using my braille 
> > > compass, and mental mapping, and really using my cane like I was 
> > > in training more often. It really brings me down when I get to do 
> > > this type of thing for a day, and then I can't do it for another 
> > > week or
>more.
> > > I guess I just wondered am I the only one in this situation?
> > > I know on this list nobody else likely has hearing loss but is 
> > > there anyone else who doesn't get to go out and travel much?
> > > Have any of you been to training and then afterwords not really
> > been able to
> > > do as much afterwords?
> > > Is anybody else on this list also a route traveler or who has to 
> > > stick primarily to someone showing them where something is first?
> > > Does anyone on here have to use a local mobility instructor to 
> > > show them where things are? If so, what was your experience?
> > > As I said, I hope it's okay for me to post this. I usually try not 
> > > to post rants, or negative threads, but I just feel
> > frustrated/discouraged sometimes
> > > because I feel like I am the only one. It seems like everyone else 
> > > who graduates from NFB centers are able to get right out there and 
> > > travel completely independently without having to depend on anyone 
> > > to show them anything. Everyone around here is sighted, and so 
> > > drives, and I guess sometimes I just feel like I am the only one 
> > > who struggles with travel. I feel like with sighted people they 
> > > don't have to be shown anything, or are limited in where they can
drive.
> > > It seems like everyone else who graduates from NFB centers are 
> > > able to just use their hearing to travel everywhere. I guess 
> > > sometimes I just feel frustrated/discouraged because I feel like I 
> > > am the only one and so wondered if others were also in a similar 
> > > situation where you struggle with travel or don't get to get out 
> > > there and use your cane
>that much.
> > > Thanks, and this is the only negative post from me I promise!, 
> > > Kerri
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > > for
> > > nabs-l:
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea
> > rt
> > hlink.net
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > > for
> > > nabs-l:
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2
> > %4
> > 0gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > > for
> > > nabs-l:
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea
> > rt
> > hlink.net
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > > for
> > > nabs-l:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40g
> > > ma
> > > il.com
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nabs-l mailing list
> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.
> >net
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40
>gmail
>.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.
>net

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com