From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 00:07:06 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 20:07:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Internships/Jobs Requiring a driver's license car
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAwZY6ij4_knN27dZ0oBRRgsn5f-rVnW1bG=pVDrCuSwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E7F4D2A7-D7D4-43AE-8D4D-AE4CE11350DE@yahoo.com>	<4B2C96FD-6DF6-4779-BA94-066F6C3821C7@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAwZY6ij4_knN27dZ0oBRRgsn5f-rVnW1bG=pVDrCuSwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000e01cebe3a$2b213420$81639c60$@gmail.com>

Always ask the employer if there maybe a way to work around the driver's
license.  There may not be, but you should at least explain your options,
and how you are qualified, and see what they say.  If the license is because
you may have to travel for business, there may be other ways.  If the
license is because you have to drive cliants around, that may be different.
Without knowing the parameters of the internship in question, my first
response is to just ask.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
Silverman
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:11 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships/Jobs Requiring a driver's license car

I disagree. If you want the job and are otherwise qualified, I think it's
worth calling or emailing the employer to ask why a car is required. Explain
your transportation options and emphasize that you should be able to perform
the job duties just fine using the transportation you have available to you,
but that due to blindness you cannot drive your own vehicle. Also, sometimes
employers request a driver's license when what they really mean is just a
form of identification (and you should have some kind of state ID card). If
the job requires getting around, but not actually driving other people
around, you should be fine.

Arielle

On 9/30/13, Jane <juanitatighan at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've discovered that no matter what, if you don't have a license they 
> will use it as an excuse not to hire you, so don't bother applying.
>
> Jane
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have come across several job and internship applications that say a 
>> driver's license and car is required for the position. I have access 
>> to reliable transportation, but obviously I will not be driving due 
>> to my vision.  What do you suggest? What are my legal rights?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40g
>> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.
> com
>

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From louvins at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 00:15:18 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:15:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Bard shut down and government shutdown
In-Reply-To: <b174b589dcff4b5c85d1160187d27c7e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <876C6704C743469298D959B96F4F7187@OwnerPC>
	<b174b589dcff4b5c85d1160187d27c7e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9uE7LJ+O_szEaPutNBD3BU8LvNuM4iQxF_VwAKQrVk62Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi to all.  If you want anything from bard, you'll have to be patient.
 The site is very slow at the moment.  I've downloaded about 10.7 gigs
this weekend, so I'm prepared.

On 9/30/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> I'm praying that a deal is reached!
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett
> [bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 6:28 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Bard shut down and government shutdown
>
> Hi all,
>
> If you need or want anything urgently from Bard, download tonight!
>
> Remember our congress has not agreed on a budget and the funding of Obama
> care, so the government may shut down.
>
> Bard will shut down also as long as NLS staff are furloughed.
> You probably can order books via your cooperating library via mail still
> though.
>
> I saw this message on BARD.
> In the case of a federal government shutdown tomorrow, tuesday, October 1,
> 2013, most Library of congress personnel, including all NLS staff, will be
> furloughed, and BARD servers will be shut down for the duration.
>
> So there is the message. So, take steps to prepare and voice your political
> views to your legislator’s offices so we hopefully can get the government
> running soon.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct  1 00:48:21 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 17:48:21 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
Message-ID: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>

I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.

what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3 people.

I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
classes.

I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my left.
One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from beside you
that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't spoken to
anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple that
obviously know each other outside of the class.

I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we were
all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a couple
of people at a time.

I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason. I
also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.

I only want to work with those who also want A's.

Suzanne

From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 01:01:16 2013
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:01:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Bard shut down and government shutdown
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9uE7LJ+O_szEaPutNBD3BU8LvNuM4iQxF_VwAKQrVk62Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <876C6704C743469298D959B96F4F7187@OwnerPC>
	<b174b589dcff4b5c85d1160187d27c7e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CADUoy9uE7LJ+O_szEaPutNBD3BU8LvNuM4iQxF_VwAKQrVk62Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <056100FD-1610-4874-835A-6AE1DBB497D1@gmail.com>

Ya, Idownladed 35 audio books and 8 Braille books the last few days. And it might be beneficial to know you can put Bookshare .brf files in the BARD Mobile app for a better read than with Read2Go. So if you run out of BARD books there is always Bookshare!.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:15 PM, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi to all.  If you want anything from bard, you'll have to be patient.
> The site is very slow at the moment.  I've downloaded about 10.7 gigs
> this weekend, so I'm prepared.
> 
>> On 9/30/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I'm praying that a deal is reached!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett
>> [bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 6:28 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Bard shut down and government shutdown
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> If you need or want anything urgently from Bard, download tonight!
>> 
>> Remember our congress has not agreed on a budget and the funding of Obama
>> care, so the government may shut down.
>> 
>> Bard will shut down also as long as NLS staff are furloughed.
>> You probably can order books via your cooperating library via mail still
>> though.
>> 
>> I saw this message on BARD.
>> In the case of a federal government shutdown tomorrow, tuesday, October 1,
>> 2013, most Library of congress personnel, including all NLS staff, will be
>> furloughed, and BARD servers will be shut down for the duration.
>> 
>> So there is the message. So, take steps to prepare and voice your political
>> views to your legislator’s offices so we hopefully can get the government
>> running soon.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 01:12:27 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:12:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>

Suzanne,

On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers
asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once they
have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the
students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from
which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well as to
simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high school,
but you should be able to do this also with your college professor.

Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my
class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with students
I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not know
anyone in the class or if the people I know already have partners, I
will just pick a random name from the class roster and go from there.
If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another
student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who
needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I am
working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or read
material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know me, I
find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This is
especially important for group projects in science or math related
classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the above
suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.

Hope this helps,

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>
> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
>
> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3 people.
>
> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
> classes.
>
> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my left.
> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from beside you
> that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't spoken to
> anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple that
> obviously know each other outside of the class.
>
> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we were
> all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a couple
> of people at a time.
>
> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason. I
> also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
>
> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
>
> Suzanne
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 01:23:53 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:23:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBWXFEDpzFM=xY2S5E9k7TbnrKoieOvZ53BkosjvdGwaw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Suzanne,

If you know when the group project will be assigned, maybe try asking
the person sitting to your right before class if they want to pair up
with you. When I've asked people I don't know to be in a group, they
never turned me down, at least not in college (happened in high school
though). If the group assignment is a surprise, then you could just
try walking around and asking people you come across if you can join
them until you either find a group or until most people are paired up
and you find the odd one out or the pair that lets you be the third
group member. My guess is that at least some of the other students
don't have any friends in the class either.

Best,
Arielle

On 9/30/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Suzanne,
>
> On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers
> asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once they
> have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the
> students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from
> which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well as to
> simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high school,
> but you should be able to do this also with your college professor.
>
> Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my
> class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with students
> I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not know
> anyone in the class or if the people I know already have partners, I
> will just pick a random name from the class roster and go from there.
> If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another
> student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who
> needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I am
> working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or read
> material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know me, I
> find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This is
> especially important for group projects in science or math related
> classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the above
> suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
>>
>> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3
>> people.
>>
>> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
>> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
>> classes.
>>
>> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my
>> left.
>> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
>> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
>> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from beside
>> you
>> that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't spoken
>> to
>> anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple that
>> obviously know each other outside of the class.
>>
>> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we
>> were
>> all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a couple
>> of people at a time.
>>
>> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason. I
>> also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
>>
>> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
>>
>> Suzanne
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 01:32:36 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:32:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Internships/Jobs Requiring a driver's license car
In-Reply-To: <000e01cebe3a$2b213420$81639c60$@gmail.com>
References: <E7F4D2A7-D7D4-43AE-8D4D-AE4CE11350DE@yahoo.com>
	<4B2C96FD-6DF6-4779-BA94-066F6C3821C7@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAwZY6ij4_knN27dZ0oBRRgsn5f-rVnW1bG=pVDrCuSwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e01cebe3a$2b213420$81639c60$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAaAYra8eq4jxU2V65KEbqbb19XHhW5M7L52P35V_BcCw@mail.gmail.com>

I've often been told that you should never disqualify yourself for a
job you want. Apply and let them decide if you are worthy or not. If
you don't apply you have a 100% chance of not being hired.
You may also find that during the application process you learn about
other opportunities, even if you are not hired.

Arielle

On 9/30/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Always ask the employer if there maybe a way to work around the driver's
> license.  There may not be, but you should at least explain your options,
> and how you are qualified, and see what they say.  If the license is
> because
> you may have to travel for business, there may be other ways.  If the
> license is because you have to drive cliants around, that may be different.
> Without knowing the parameters of the internship in question, my first
> response is to just ask.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
> Silverman
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:11 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships/Jobs Requiring a driver's license car
>
> I disagree. If you want the job and are otherwise qualified, I think it's
> worth calling or emailing the employer to ask why a car is required.
> Explain
> your transportation options and emphasize that you should be able to
> perform
> the job duties just fine using the transportation you have available to
> you,
> but that due to blindness you cannot drive your own vehicle. Also,
> sometimes
> employers request a driver's license when what they really mean is just a
> form of identification (and you should have some kind of state ID card). If
> the job requires getting around, but not actually driving other people
> around, you should be fine.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 9/30/13, Jane <juanitatighan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've discovered that no matter what, if you don't have a license they
>> will use it as an excuse not to hire you, so don't bother applying.
>>
>> Jane
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have come across several job and internship applications that say a
>>> driver's license and car is required for the position. I have access
>>> to reliable transportation, but obviously I will not be driving due
>>> to my vision.  What do you suggest? What are my legal rights?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> (336) 988-6375
>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40g
>>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.
>> com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From kolby12091988 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 01:32:27 2013
From: kolby12091988 at gmail.com (Kolby)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:32:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Bard shut down and government shutdown
In-Reply-To: <056100FD-1610-4874-835A-6AE1DBB497D1@gmail.com>
References: <876C6704C743469298D959B96F4F7187@OwnerPC>	<b174b589dcff4b5c85d1160187d27c7e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>	<CADUoy9uE7LJ+O_szEaPutNBD3BU8LvNuM4iQxF_VwAKQrVk62Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<056100FD-1610-4874-835A-6AE1DBB497D1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00f601cebe46$17ee1470$47ca3d50$@gmail.com>

Hello Jewel,
In BARD Mobile, do you have to read the .brf files using a Braille display, or can the files be read using voiceover?
Thank you,
Kolby



From louvins at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 01:38:58 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 20:38:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Bard shut down and government shutdown
In-Reply-To: <00f601cebe46$17ee1470$47ca3d50$@gmail.com>
References: <876C6704C743469298D959B96F4F7187@OwnerPC>
	<b174b589dcff4b5c85d1160187d27c7e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CADUoy9uE7LJ+O_szEaPutNBD3BU8LvNuM4iQxF_VwAKQrVk62Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<056100FD-1610-4874-835A-6AE1DBB497D1@gmail.com>
	<00f601cebe46$17ee1470$47ca3d50$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9sP5qWTK13SPKa9+ujiwrGZnf0ahGacf2O1caWyZ1UkQQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure about the braille files from bookshare, but I know the
ones from bard have to have a braille display, or they won't read
properly.  I have around 11 gigs worth of bard books downloaded on my
computer at present.  I really like bookshare.  I use kurzweil, to
make audio files of the bookshare books.  I have installed a lot of
different voices to choose from when I'm making an audio book.

On 9/30/13, Kolby <kolby12091988 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Jewel,
> In BARD Mobile, do you have to read the .brf files using a Braille display,
> or can the files be read using voiceover?
> Thank you,
> Kolby
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct  1 01:39:26 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:39:26 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBWXFEDpzFM=xY2S5E9k7TbnrKoieOvZ53BkosjvdGwaw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJBWXFEDpzFM=xY2S5E9k7TbnrKoieOvZ53BkosjvdGwaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>

We just found out there was going to be a group project via blackboard.
Guess I'll try the guy next to me.

The last programming group project I did many years ago, I had to redo the
other 3 people's portions in order for us to get an A. So basically I did
the entire project and they all got  A's. I am not fond of group projects
in school. I bust my ass for A's and dont' want someone else having any
input on my grade.


On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Arielle Silverman <
Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:

> Hi Suzanne,
>
> If you know when the group project will be assigned, maybe try asking
> the person sitting to your right before class if they want to pair up
> with you. When I've asked people I don't know to be in a group, they
> never turned me down, at least not in college (happened in high school
> though). If the group assignment is a surprise, then you could just
> try walking around and asking people you come across if you can join
> them until you either find a group or until most people are paired up
> and you find the odd one out or the pair that lets you be the third
> group member. My guess is that at least some of the other students
> don't have any friends in the class either.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 9/30/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Suzanne,
> >
> > On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers
> > asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once they
> > have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the
> > students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from
> > which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well as to
> > simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high school,
> > but you should be able to do this also with your college professor.
> >
> > Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my
> > class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with students
> > I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not know
> > anyone in the class or if the people I know already have partners, I
> > will just pick a random name from the class roster and go from there.
> > If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another
> > student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who
> > needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I am
> > working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or read
> > material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know me, I
> > find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This is
> > especially important for group projects in science or math related
> > classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the above
> > suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Chris Nusbaum
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
> >>
> >> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3
> >> people.
> >>
> >> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
> >> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
> >> classes.
> >>
> >> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my
> >> left.
> >> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
> >> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
> >> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from beside
> >> you
> >> that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't spoken
> >> to
> >> anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple
> that
> >> obviously know each other outside of the class.
> >>
> >> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we
> >> were
> >> all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a
> couple
> >> of people at a time.
> >>
> >> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason. I
> >> also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
> >>
> >> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
> >>
> >> Suzanne
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 01:43:53 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:43:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJBWXFEDpzFM=xY2S5E9k7TbnrKoieOvZ53BkosjvdGwaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBr9QG3oO4apczUstdpxKPuq870HqC+17atEqW0J+yFng@mail.gmail.com>

Yes I understand. Unfortunately that comes with the territory of group
projects, and there's often not much a student can do about it besides
do extra work or complain to the professor about the other group
members' lack of productivity. That is why when I start teaching I am
going to give group assignments but only ungraded ones, and I am going
to randomly assign the groups so there's no awkwardness with trying to
choose groups.

Arielle

On 9/30/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> We just found out there was going to be a group project via blackboard.
> Guess I'll try the guy next to me.
>
> The last programming group project I did many years ago, I had to redo the
> other 3 people's portions in order for us to get an A. So basically I did
> the entire project and they all got  A's. I am not fond of group projects
> in school. I bust my ass for A's and dont' want someone else having any
> input on my grade.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Arielle Silverman <
> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Suzanne,
>>
>> If you know when the group project will be assigned, maybe try asking
>> the person sitting to your right before class if they want to pair up
>> with you. When I've asked people I don't know to be in a group, they
>> never turned me down, at least not in college (happened in high school
>> though). If the group assignment is a surprise, then you could just
>> try walking around and asking people you come across if you can join
>> them until you either find a group or until most people are paired up
>> and you find the odd one out or the pair that lets you be the third
>> group member. My guess is that at least some of the other students
>> don't have any friends in the class either.
>>
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 9/30/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Suzanne,
>> >
>> > On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers
>> > asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once they
>> > have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the
>> > students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from
>> > which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well as to
>> > simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high school,
>> > but you should be able to do this also with your college professor.
>> >
>> > Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my
>> > class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with students
>> > I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not know
>> > anyone in the class or if the people I know already have partners, I
>> > will just pick a random name from the class roster and go from there.
>> > If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another
>> > student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who
>> > needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I am
>> > working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or read
>> > material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know me, I
>> > find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This is
>> > especially important for group projects in science or math related
>> > classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the above
>> > suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
>> >
>> > Hope this helps,
>> >
>> > Chris Nusbaum
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
>> >>
>> >> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3
>> >> people.
>> >>
>> >> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
>> >> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
>> >> classes.
>> >>
>> >> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my
>> >> left.
>> >> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
>> >> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
>> >> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from
>> >> beside
>> >> you
>> >> that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't
>> >> spoken
>> >> to
>> >> anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple
>> that
>> >> obviously know each other outside of the class.
>> >>
>> >> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we
>> >> were
>> >> all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a
>> couple
>> >> of people at a time.
>> >>
>> >> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason.
>> >> I
>> >> also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
>> >>
>> >> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
>> >>
>> >> Suzanne
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct  1 01:46:57 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:46:57 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBr9QG3oO4apczUstdpxKPuq870HqC+17atEqW0J+yFng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJBWXFEDpzFM=xY2S5E9k7TbnrKoieOvZ53BkosjvdGwaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBr9QG3oO4apczUstdpxKPuq870HqC+17atEqW0J+yFng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avcobR=fWj3EG6=kLEfY65Mhu6h1NoJ-_NvL3nvur+j-sQ@mail.gmail.com>

That sounds like a good way to do it.

Randomly assigning also helps those who may only group with a friend to go
out of their comfort zone also.


On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Arielle Silverman <
Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:

> Yes I understand. Unfortunately that comes with the territory of group
> projects, and there's often not much a student can do about it besides
> do extra work or complain to the professor about the other group
> members' lack of productivity. That is why when I start teaching I am
> going to give group assignments but only ungraded ones, and I am going
> to randomly assign the groups so there's no awkwardness with trying to
> choose groups.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 9/30/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> > We just found out there was going to be a group project via blackboard.
> > Guess I'll try the guy next to me.
> >
> > The last programming group project I did many years ago, I had to redo
> the
> > other 3 people's portions in order for us to get an A. So basically I did
> > the entire project and they all got  A's. I am not fond of group projects
> > in school. I bust my ass for A's and dont' want someone else having any
> > input on my grade.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Arielle Silverman <
> > Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Suzanne,
> >>
> >> If you know when the group project will be assigned, maybe try asking
> >> the person sitting to your right before class if they want to pair up
> >> with you. When I've asked people I don't know to be in a group, they
> >> never turned me down, at least not in college (happened in high school
> >> though). If the group assignment is a surprise, then you could just
> >> try walking around and asking people you come across if you can join
> >> them until you either find a group or until most people are paired up
> >> and you find the odd one out or the pair that lets you be the third
> >> group member. My guess is that at least some of the other students
> >> don't have any friends in the class either.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Arielle
> >>
> >> On 9/30/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Suzanne,
> >> >
> >> > On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers
> >> > asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once they
> >> > have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the
> >> > students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from
> >> > which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well as to
> >> > simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high school,
> >> > but you should be able to do this also with your college professor.
> >> >
> >> > Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my
> >> > class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with students
> >> > I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not know
> >> > anyone in the class or if the people I know already have partners, I
> >> > will just pick a random name from the class roster and go from there.
> >> > If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another
> >> > student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who
> >> > needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I am
> >> > working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or read
> >> > material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know me, I
> >> > find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This is
> >> > especially important for group projects in science or math related
> >> > classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the above
> >> > suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
> >> >
> >> > Hope this helps,
> >> >
> >> > Chris Nusbaum
> >> >
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> >
> >> >> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
> >> >>
> >> >> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3
> >> >> people.
> >> >>
> >> >> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any
> of
> >> >> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my
> current
> >> >> classes.
> >> >>
> >> >> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my
> >> >> left.
> >> >> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
> >> >> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv.
> The
> >> >> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from
> >> >> beside
> >> >> you
> >> >> that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't
> >> >> spoken
> >> >> to
> >> >> anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple
> >> that
> >> >> obviously know each other outside of the class.
> >> >>
> >> >> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we
> >> >> were
> >> >> all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a
> >> couple
> >> >> of people at a time.
> >> >>
> >> >> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason.
> >> >> I
> >> >> also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
> >> >>
> >> >> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
> >> >>
> >> >> Suzanne
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >> nabs-l:
> >> >>
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> > nabs-l:
> >> >
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 01:54:11 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:54:11 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>	<550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>	<CALAYQJBWXFEDpzFM=xY2S5E9k7TbnrKoieOvZ53BkosjvdGwaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003301cebe49$20e6cdd0$62b46970$@gmail.com>

True, but keep in mind, in the real world, there are a lot of projects that
are done in groups, teams, and task forces.  Great learning experience.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne Germano
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:39 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects

We just found out there was going to be a group project via blackboard.
Guess I'll try the guy next to me.

The last programming group project I did many years ago, I had to redo the
other 3 people's portions in order for us to get an A. So basically I did
the entire project and they all got  A's. I am not fond of group projects in
school. I bust my ass for A's and dont' want someone else having any input
on my grade.


On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Arielle Silverman <
Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:

> Hi Suzanne,
>
> If you know when the group project will be assigned, maybe try asking 
> the person sitting to your right before class if they want to pair up 
> with you. When I've asked people I don't know to be in a group, they 
> never turned me down, at least not in college (happened in high school 
> though). If the group assignment is a surprise, then you could just 
> try walking around and asking people you come across if you can join 
> them until you either find a group or until most people are paired up 
> and you find the odd one out or the pair that lets you be the third 
> group member. My guess is that at least some of the other students 
> don't have any friends in the class either.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 9/30/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Suzanne,
> >
> > On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers 
> > asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once 
> > they have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the 
> > students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from 
> > which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well as 
> > to simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high 
> > school, but you should be able to do this also with your college
professor.
> >
> > Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my 
> > class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with 
> > students I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not 
> > know anyone in the class or if the people I know already have 
> > partners, I will just pick a random name from the class roster and go
from there.
> > If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another 
> > student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who 
> > needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I 
> > am working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or 
> > read material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know 
> > me, I find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This 
> > is especially important for group projects in science or math 
> > related classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the 
> > above suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Chris Nusbaum
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
> >>
> >> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 
> >> 2-3 people.
> >>
> >> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any 
> >> of these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my 
> >> current classes.
> >>
> >> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to 
> >> my left.
> >> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at 
> >> the larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and 
> >> cctv. The other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips 
> >> up from beside you that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. 
> >> Anyway I haven't spoken to anyone in class. No one really talk 
> >> before class aside form a couple
> that
> >> obviously know each other outside of the class.
> >>
> >> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because 
> >> we were all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects 
> >> with a
> couple
> >> of people at a time.
> >>
> >> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no 
> >> reason. I also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
> >>
> >> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
> >>
> >> Suzanne
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> >> for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
> mail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.
> com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>
_______________________________________________
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From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 01:54:13 2013
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina Cruz)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:54:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Internships/Jobs Requiring a driver's license car
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAaAYra8eq4jxU2V65KEbqbb19XHhW5M7L52P35V_BcCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E7F4D2A7-D7D4-43AE-8D4D-AE4CE11350DE@yahoo.com>
	<4B2C96FD-6DF6-4779-BA94-066F6C3821C7@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAwZY6ij4_knN27dZ0oBRRgsn5f-rVnW1bG=pVDrCuSwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e01cebe3a$2b213420$81639c60$@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAaAYra8eq4jxU2V65KEbqbb19XHhW5M7L52P35V_BcCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKDRsJJOL-YCmRum289ZzdU94JSZNxk7=Pi0iSts8DDMDxhDOg@mail.gmail.com>

Bobby, This is a good question.
Since I'm going into the social work field and have encountered the  driver's
 licens quandary, I'm taking the approach of asking before assuming
I'm not qualified for the job. Unfortunately the jobs I've asked about
so far are transporting clients and since I'm in an area with no
public transit, I'd be working to pay a driver.
I've discussed this issue with my intern supervisor and she said as
the director of a small nonprofit, even is she wanted to hire a person
who couldn't drive she wouldn't have the funds to provide such an
accommodation.

On 9/30/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've often been told that you should never disqualify yourself for a
> job you want. Apply and let them decide if you are worthy or not. If
> you don't apply you have a 100% chance of not being hired.
> You may also find that during the application process you learn about
> other opportunities, even if you are not hired.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 9/30/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Always ask the employer if there maybe a way to work around the driver's
>> license.  There may not be, but you should at least explain your options,
>> and how you are qualified, and see what they say.  If the license is
>> because
>> you may have to travel for business, there may be other ways.  If the
>> license is because you have to drive cliants around, that may be
>> different.
>> Without knowing the parameters of the internship in question, my first
>> response is to just ask.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>> Silverman
>> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:11 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships/Jobs Requiring a driver's license car
>>
>> I disagree. If you want the job and are otherwise qualified, I think it's
>> worth calling or emailing the employer to ask why a car is required.
>> Explain
>> your transportation options and emphasize that you should be able to
>> perform
>> the job duties just fine using the transportation you have available to
>> you,
>> but that due to blindness you cannot drive your own vehicle. Also,
>> sometimes
>> employers request a driver's license when what they really mean is just a
>> form of identification (and you should have some kind of state ID card).
>> If
>> the job requires getting around, but not actually driving other people
>> around, you should be fine.
>>
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 9/30/13, Jane <juanitatighan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've discovered that no matter what, if you don't have a license they
>>> will use it as an excuse not to hire you, so don't bother applying.
>>>
>>> Jane
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I have come across several job and internship applications that say a
>>>> driver's license and car is required for the position. I have access
>>>> to reliable transportation, but obviously I will not be driving due
>>>> to my vision.  What do you suggest? What are my legal rights?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>>> (336) 988-6375
>>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40g
>>>> mail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.
>>> com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Anjelina


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 01:55:53 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:55:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <004301cebe49$5da5f390$18f1dab0$@gmail.com>

Now Chris, think you done taught this old veteran something.  Never thought
of getting the teachers to email the rosters.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher
nusbaum
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:12 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects

Suzanne,

On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers asking
them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once they have done
this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the students in my class.
This allows me to have a list of names from which to pick group members for
these kinds of projects, as well as to simply know who is in my class. Keep
in mind that I am in high school, but you should be able to do this also
with your college professor.

Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my class.
When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with students I know so we
can easily work together. However, if I do not know anyone in the class or
if the people I know already have partners, I will just pick a random name
from the class roster and go from there.
If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another student if
there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who needs a partner.
Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I am working with, I will
usually ask my group members to describe or read material if this is
necessary. Once the students get to know me, I find that they will do this
naturally without my asking. This is especially important for group projects
in science or math related classes. I hope you will be able to use one or
more of the above suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.

Hope this helps,

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>
> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
>
> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3
people.
>
> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of 
> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current 
> classes.
>
> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my
left.
> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the 
> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The 
> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from 
> beside you that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I 
> haven't spoken to anyone in class. No one really talk before class 
> aside form a couple that obviously know each other outside of the class.
>
> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we 
> were all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with 
> a couple of people at a time.
>
> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason. 
> I also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
>
> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
>
> Suzanne
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
> mail.com

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct  1 02:01:16 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:01:16 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <003301cebe49$20e6cdd0$62b46970$@gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJBWXFEDpzFM=xY2S5E9k7TbnrKoieOvZ53BkosjvdGwaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<003301cebe49$20e6cdd0$62b46970$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avdMsEeSMqv59V2AEjT38mNPBUcabgYi34edzp6m6Yn+qA@mail.gmail.com>

Yes with co-workers. I had no issues at all at my internship with all the
employees there. I was the only intern. I don't have problems working with
people or working on a large project as part of a group.

It is the class of 60 students, you don't know any of them or their work
ethic. And you randomly pick someone who may not give a crap about their
grades or have the "Cs get degrees" attitude. Trying to form groups is more
like a popularity contest or who is friends with who. That is not how a job
is. I have been employed in the field. My fiance is a executive in the
field. There are people assigned to certain projects and you work with
them.


On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:54 PM, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> wrote:

> True, but keep in mind, in the real world, there are a lot of projects that
> are done in groups, teams, and task forces.  Great learning experience.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne
> Germano
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:39 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
>
> We just found out there was going to be a group project via blackboard.
> Guess I'll try the guy next to me.
>
> The last programming group project I did many years ago, I had to redo the
> other 3 people's portions in order for us to get an A. So basically I did
> the entire project and they all got  A's. I am not fond of group projects
> in
> school. I bust my ass for A's and dont' want someone else having any input
> on my grade.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Arielle Silverman <
> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hi Suzanne,
> >
> > If you know when the group project will be assigned, maybe try asking
> > the person sitting to your right before class if they want to pair up
> > with you. When I've asked people I don't know to be in a group, they
> > never turned me down, at least not in college (happened in high school
> > though). If the group assignment is a surprise, then you could just
> > try walking around and asking people you come across if you can join
> > them until you either find a group or until most people are paired up
> > and you find the odd one out or the pair that lets you be the third
> > group member. My guess is that at least some of the other students
> > don't have any friends in the class either.
> >
> > Best,
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 9/30/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Suzanne,
> > >
> > > On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers
> > > asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once
> > > they have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the
> > > students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from
> > > which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well as
> > > to simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high
> > > school, but you should be able to do this also with your college
> professor.
> > >
> > > Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my
> > > class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with
> > > students I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not
> > > know anyone in the class or if the people I know already have
> > > partners, I will just pick a random name from the class roster and go
> from there.
> > > If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another
> > > student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who
> > > needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I
> > > am working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or
> > > read material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know
> > > me, I find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This
> > > is especially important for group projects in science or math
> > > related classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the
> > > above suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps,
> > >
> > > Chris Nusbaum
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
> > >>
> > >> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are
> > >> 2-3 people.
> > >>
> > >> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any
> > >> of these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my
> > >> current classes.
> > >>
> > >> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to
> > >> my left.
> > >> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at
> > >> the larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and
> > >> cctv. The other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips
> > >> up from beside you that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper.
> > >> Anyway I haven't spoken to anyone in class. No one really talk
> > >> before class aside form a couple
> > that
> > >> obviously know each other outside of the class.
> > >>
> > >> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because
> > >> we were all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects
> > >> with a
> > couple
> > >> of people at a time.
> > >>
> > >> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no
> > >> reason. I also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
> > >>
> > >> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
> > >>
> > >> Suzanne
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> nabs-l mailing list
> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >> for
> > >> nabs-l:
> > >>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
> > mail.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for
> > > nabs-l:
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.
> > com
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
> >
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>

From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Tue Oct  1 01:52:49 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:52:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJBWXFEDpzFM=xY2S5E9k7TbnrKoieOvZ53BkosjvdGwaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22F94DE6-2B5B-4A25-B640-EDCE04E82D7C@aol.com>

As a future educator  I do group projects all the time. All of mine are not announced and I am in some classes that I know absolutely no one. For me I get together with anyone, trade contact info, and divide up parts. I do my part and only my part because it is not my job to carry the other people to the grade. I work closely with the professor when I do the projects or whatever so they know what  I am doing. I have the mentality of its college which means every man for him self. 

For that bit about finding a group just ask around. As I said its college at the end of the day all you need is the grade. 

Bridget 

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 30, 2013, at 9:39 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:

> We just found out there was going to be a group project via blackboard.
> Guess I'll try the guy next to me.
> 
> The last programming group project I did many years ago, I had to redo the
> other 3 people's portions in order for us to get an A. So basically I did
> the entire project and they all got  A's. I am not fond of group projects
> in school. I bust my ass for A's and dont' want someone else having any
> input on my grade.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Arielle Silverman <
> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Suzanne,
>> 
>> If you know when the group project will be assigned, maybe try asking
>> the person sitting to your right before class if they want to pair up
>> with you. When I've asked people I don't know to be in a group, they
>> never turned me down, at least not in college (happened in high school
>> though). If the group assignment is a surprise, then you could just
>> try walking around and asking people you come across if you can join
>> them until you either find a group or until most people are paired up
>> and you find the odd one out or the pair that lets you be the third
>> group member. My guess is that at least some of the other students
>> don't have any friends in the class either.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 9/30/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Suzanne,
>>> 
>>> On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers
>>> asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once they
>>> have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the
>>> students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from
>>> which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well as to
>>> simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high school,
>>> but you should be able to do this also with your college professor.
>>> 
>>> Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my
>>> class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with students
>>> I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not know
>>> anyone in the class or if the people I know already have partners, I
>>> will just pick a random name from the class roster and go from there.
>>> If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another
>>> student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who
>>> needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I am
>>> working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or read
>>> material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know me, I
>>> find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This is
>>> especially important for group projects in science or math related
>>> classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the above
>>> suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
>>>> 
>>>> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3
>>>> people.
>>>> 
>>>> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
>>>> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
>>>> classes.
>>>> 
>>>> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my
>>>> left.
>>>> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
>>>> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
>>>> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from beside
>>>> you
>>>> that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't spoken
>>>> to
>>>> anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple
>> that
>>>> obviously know each other outside of the class.
>>>> 
>>>> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we
>>>> were
>>>> all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a
>> couple
>>>> of people at a time.
>>>> 
>>>> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason. I
>>>> also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
>>>> 
>>>> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
>>>> 
>>>> Suzanne
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 02:04:59 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:04:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avdMsEeSMqv59V2AEjT38mNPBUcabgYi34edzp6m6Yn+qA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>	<550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>	<CALAYQJBWXFEDpzFM=xY2S5E9k7TbnrKoieOvZ53BkosjvdGwaw@mail.gmail.com>	<CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>	<003301cebe49$20e6cdd0$62b46970$@gmail.com>
	<CAF=_avdMsEeSMqv59V2AEjT38mNPBUcabgYi34edzp6m6Yn+qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005701cebe4a$a2de0640$e89a12c0$@gmail.com>

Oh, I understand. I duck the groups to.   Lol.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne Germano
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 10:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects

Yes with co-workers. I had no issues at all at my internship with all the
employees there. I was the only intern. I don't have problems working with
people or working on a large project as part of a group.

It is the class of 60 students, you don't know any of them or their work
ethic. And you randomly pick someone who may not give a crap about their
grades or have the "Cs get degrees" attitude. Trying to form groups is more
like a popularity contest or who is friends with who. That is not how a job
is. I have been employed in the field. My fiance is a executive in the
field. There are people assigned to certain projects and you work with them.


On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:54 PM, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> wrote:

> True, but keep in mind, in the real world, there are a lot of projects 
> that are done in groups, teams, and task forces.  Great learning
experience.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne 
> Germano
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:39 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
>
> We just found out there was going to be a group project via blackboard.
> Guess I'll try the guy next to me.
>
> The last programming group project I did many years ago, I had to redo 
> the other 3 people's portions in order for us to get an A. So 
> basically I did the entire project and they all got  A's. I am not 
> fond of group projects in school. I bust my ass for A's and dont' want 
> someone else having any input on my grade.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Arielle Silverman < 
> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hi Suzanne,
> >
> > If you know when the group project will be assigned, maybe try 
> > asking the person sitting to your right before class if they want to 
> > pair up with you. When I've asked people I don't know to be in a 
> > group, they never turned me down, at least not in college (happened 
> > in high school though). If the group assignment is a surprise, then 
> > you could just try walking around and asking people you come across 
> > if you can join them until you either find a group or until most 
> > people are paired up and you find the odd one out or the pair that 
> > lets you be the third group member. My guess is that at least some 
> > of the other students don't have any friends in the class either.
> >
> > Best,
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 9/30/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Suzanne,
> > >
> > > On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers 
> > > asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once 
> > > they have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all 
> > > the students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names 
> > > from which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as 
> > > well as to simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am 
> > > in high school, but you should be able to do this also with your 
> > > college
> professor.
> > >
> > > Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in 
> > > my class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with 
> > > students I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do 
> > > not know anyone in the class or if the people I know already have 
> > > partners, I will just pick a random name from the class roster and 
> > > go
> from there.
> > > If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another 
> > > student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who 
> > > needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) 
> > > I am working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe 
> > > or read material if this is necessary. Once the students get to 
> > > know me, I find that they will do this naturally without my 
> > > asking. This is especially important for group projects in science 
> > > or math related classes. I hope you will be able to use one or 
> > > more of the above suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps,
> > >
> > > Chris Nusbaum
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
> > >>
> > >> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are
> > >> 2-3 people.
> > >>
> > >> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had 
> > >> any of these students in previous classes or if they are in any 
> > >> of my current classes.
> > >>
> > >> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle 
> > >> to my left.
> > >> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at 
> > >> the larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and 
> > >> cctv. The other seats are the kind with the little desk that 
> > >> flips up from beside you that isn't even big enough for a sheet of
paper.
> > >> Anyway I haven't spoken to anyone in class. No one really talk 
> > >> before class aside form a couple
> > that
> > >> obviously know each other outside of the class.
> > >>
> > >> I can be very social for example where I did my internship 
> > >> because we were all introduced to each other and I worked on 
> > >> small projects with a
> > couple
> > >> of people at a time.
> > >>
> > >> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no 
> > >> reason. I also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
> > >>
> > >> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
> > >>
> > >> Suzanne
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> nabs-l mailing list
> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > >> for
> > >> nabs-l:
> > >>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4
> > 0g
> > mail.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > > for
> > > nabs-l:
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.
> > com
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.e
> > du
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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> 0gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 02:05:18 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:05:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <004301cebe49$5da5f390$18f1dab0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<550247907850297514@unknownmsgid>
	<004301cebe49$5da5f390$18f1dab0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5904514461538191970@unknownmsgid>

Ha ha, guess you can teach an old dog new tricks. LOL. I came up with
that idea after an awkward and somewhat embarrassing incident during
the Sunday school class at the church I attend. During the discussion
I brought up something that we discussed in my US government class.
One of the other students in the Sunday school class replied, "yeah, I
remember that. I'm in that class at school." To which I replied, "UR?"
I didn't even know she was in my class! LOL. That's when I started
doing the roster thing

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 9:56 PM, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Now Chris, think you done taught this old veteran something.  Never thought
> of getting the teachers to email the rosters.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher
> nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:12 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
>
> Suzanne,
>
> On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers asking
> them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once they have done
> this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the students in my class.
> This allows me to have a list of names from which to pick group members for
> these kinds of projects, as well as to simply know who is in my class. Keep
> in mind that I am in high school, but you should be able to do this also
> with your college professor.
>
> Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my class.
> When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with students I know so we
> can easily work together. However, if I do not know anyone in the class or
> if the people I know already have partners, I will just pick a random name
> from the class roster and go from there.
> If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another student if
> there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who needs a partner.
> Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I am working with, I will
> usually ask my group members to describe or read material if this is
> necessary. Once the students get to know me, I find that they will do this
> naturally without my asking. This is especially important for group projects
> in science or math related classes. I hope you will be able to use one or
> more of the above suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
>>
>> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3
> people.
>>
>> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
>> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
>> classes.
>>
>> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my
> left.
>> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
>> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
>> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from
>> beside you that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I
>> haven't spoken to anyone in class. No one really talk before class
>> aside form a couple that obviously know each other outside of the class.
>>
>> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we
>> were all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with
>> a couple of people at a time.
>>
>> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason.
>> I also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
>>
>> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
>>
>> Suzanne
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
>> mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  1 02:30:17 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:30:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Internships/Jobs Requiring a driver's license car
In-Reply-To: <CAKDRsJJOL-YCmRum289ZzdU94JSZNxk7=Pi0iSts8DDMDxhDOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E7F4D2A7-D7D4-43AE-8D4D-AE4CE11350DE@yahoo.com>
	<4B2C96FD-6DF6-4779-BA94-066F6C3821C7@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAwZY6ij4_knN27dZ0oBRRgsn5f-rVnW1bG=pVDrCuSwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e01cebe3a$2b213420$81639c60$@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAaAYra8eq4jxU2V65KEbqbb19XHhW5M7L52P35V_BcCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKDRsJJOL-YCmRum289ZzdU94JSZNxk7=Pi0iSts8DDMDxhDOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93C2BB72-01A2-4A3B-AC9D-13CA569DDF0C@yahoo.com>

It is a journalism internship. I have spoken with the program director. I can still apply, but I won't be able to be placed in jobs that required a large amount of traveling at unpredictable times. And, traveling after hours as well. 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Anjelina Cruz <anjelinac26 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Bobby, This is a good question.
> Since I'm going into the social work field and have encountered the  driver's
> licens quandary, I'm taking the approach of asking before assuming
> I'm not qualified for the job. Unfortunately the jobs I've asked about
> so far are transporting clients and since I'm in an area with no
> public transit, I'd be working to pay a driver.
> I've discussed this issue with my intern supervisor and she said as
> the director of a small nonprofit, even is she wanted to hire a person
> who couldn't drive she wouldn't have the funds to provide such an
> accommodation.
> 
>> On 9/30/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've often been told that you should never disqualify yourself for a
>> job you want. Apply and let them decide if you are worthy or not. If
>> you don't apply you have a 100% chance of not being hired.
>> You may also find that during the application process you learn about
>> other opportunities, even if you are not hired.
>> 
>> Arielle
>> 
>>> On 9/30/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Always ask the employer if there maybe a way to work around the driver's
>>> license.  There may not be, but you should at least explain your options,
>>> and how you are qualified, and see what they say.  If the license is
>>> because
>>> you may have to travel for business, there may be other ways.  If the
>>> license is because you have to drive cliants around, that may be
>>> different.
>>> Without knowing the parameters of the internship in question, my first
>>> response is to just ask.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>>> Silverman
>>> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:11 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships/Jobs Requiring a driver's license car
>>> 
>>> I disagree. If you want the job and are otherwise qualified, I think it's
>>> worth calling or emailing the employer to ask why a car is required.
>>> Explain
>>> your transportation options and emphasize that you should be able to
>>> perform
>>> the job duties just fine using the transportation you have available to
>>> you,
>>> but that due to blindness you cannot drive your own vehicle. Also,
>>> sometimes
>>> employers request a driver's license when what they really mean is just a
>>> form of identification (and you should have some kind of state ID card).
>>> If
>>> the job requires getting around, but not actually driving other people
>>> around, you should be fine.
>>> 
>>> Arielle
>>> 
>>>> On 9/30/13, Jane <juanitatighan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've discovered that no matter what, if you don't have a license they
>>>> will use it as an excuse not to hire you, so don't bother applying.
>>>> 
>>>> Jane
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have come across several job and internship applications that say a
>>>>> driver's license and car is required for the position. I have access
>>>>> to reliable transportation, but obviously I will not be driving due
>>>>> to my vision.  What do you suggest? What are my legal rights?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>>>> (336) 988-6375
>>>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40g
>>>>> mail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.
>>>> com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Anjelina
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  1 02:32:17 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:32:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <659AFAD9DEF249C5940267E43744824C@OwnerPC>

Suzanne,

Group projects are tough! I don't know if you were on list when I wrote a 
similar concern and question.
I was in a family sociology class as an elective.
I felt like many students knew each other and had kliques; we had to get 
into groups of like four plus people.
I did not find a group; I used the talking method; I asked those around my 
desk; class was set up in rows of desks. But all had groups already. A few 
students said I could have joined but their group was full; based on the 
tone of voice and fact I had worked with them before on group discussions, I 
knew they meant it.

Anyway, the professor was notified of the situation and I found a group to 
work with.
Like you, I'm older, although not 40, and took class seriously and wanted As 
or Bs.

I'm afraid you'll have to take your chances. I'd suggest though that telling 
the professor what you are responsible for and do your part only.
I would not do work for other students. If it’s a bad grade, talk to the 
professor, explain the issues, and ask for extra credit or something.

As for finding groups, talk to the individual around you. If that doesn't 
work, talk to people as they leave class.
I'm sure other students don't know each other especially since you said 
there is little interaction among students.
To find out who is in class, listen for familiar voices. You could also ask 
the professor for
a roster of students. I'm assuming your class uses a online platform.
like blackboard. I can only speak to blackboard as I used that for classes.
Its not the most accessible, but in blackboard, you can email the class.
Its not too accessible with jaws since combo boxes to select names is 
unlabeled and it does not open automatically as you down arrow; you have to 
press the open combo box command to open it.
I think you're a magnification user so this may not be as problematic.
Anyway, you could try emailing the class to see who wanted to join your 
group.

Good luck.
Ashley


If you still
-----Original Message----- 
From: Suzanne Germano
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 8:48 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects

I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.

what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3 people.

I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
classes.

I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my left.
One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from beside you
that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't spoken to
anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple that
obviously know each other outside of the class.

I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we were
all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a couple
of people at a time.

I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason. I
also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.

I only want to work with those who also want A's.

Suzanne
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From gpaikens at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 03:02:05 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 23:02:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C7073A49-0A54-45A1-8F70-15AD25D04A32@gmail.com>

Usually on blackboard there is a way to message the other students in your course.  If you aren't having luck making contact with people in class, I would just send out a message to the other students asking if anyone wanted to group up.  Chances are, others also struggle with the awkwardness of grouping in a class where they don't know anyone and would jump at the chance.  

Greg Aikens, M. Ed.
Teacher of students who are blind and visually impaired
Cobb County School District
gpaikens at gmail.com



On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:

> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
> 
> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3 people.
> 
> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
> classes.
> 
> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my left.
> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from beside you
> that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't spoken to
> anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple that
> obviously know each other outside of the class.
> 
> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we were
> all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a couple
> of people at a time.
> 
> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason. I
> also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
> 
> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
> 
> Suzanne
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 05:02:47 2013
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 23:02:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] driver's license requirements for jobs
In-Reply-To: <5249F9D4.3010708@comcast.net>
References: <5249F198.9060709@comcast.net>
	<CAF=_avcRWhg55ObJek4bbmQY_3Ld-TG8VUiTD=kWNP6avxgq=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<5249F9D4.3010708@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <21238464-D188-4F42-BDB2-27175249234F@gmail.com>

Why? That takes up so much space. Why waste the space and time when the law is well established and in our favor? When I see applications that ask for a DL# I always, by default, fill in my ID#. This isn't even an issue. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 9/30/2013 3:57 PM, Suzanne Germano wrote:
>> They really shouldn't have to put anything since it is law that for any job
>> you have to prove you have the right to work in the US so ID & SS card etc
>> 
>> They should only put DL if the job requires driving as part of the job
>> requirements.
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Beth Taurasi
>> <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Bobbie, and all,
>>> My bf Blake and I were going over this topic of driver's license
>>> requirements.  We believe, in all honesty, that the most efficient thing an
>>> employer should try is to write, "Driver license or other ID issued by the
>>> United States."  But not writing "other form of ID" in the application
>>> could put a barrier up against us.  Anyone think this could become a law or
>>> something?  After all, there are some forms of employment that could
>>> require a CDL (commercial driver's license).  That's obvious: truck drivers
>>> and such.  But to those who are seeking internships, what say you all about
>>> putting a clause in applications that says, "other form of ID" to break
>>> down the barrier?
>>> Beth
>>> 
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**sgermano%40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net
> Let's just say they could write something like "You must prove that you have the right to work in the United States i.e. you must own a work permit or ID."  There.  Does that sound good?
> Beth
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com


From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 10:11:31 2013
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 06:11:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Bard shut down and government shutdown
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9sP5qWTK13SPKa9+ujiwrGZnf0ahGacf2O1caWyZ1UkQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <876C6704C743469298D959B96F4F7187@OwnerPC>
	<b174b589dcff4b5c85d1160187d27c7e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CADUoy9uE7LJ+O_szEaPutNBD3BU8LvNuM4iQxF_VwAKQrVk62Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<056100FD-1610-4874-835A-6AE1DBB497D1@gmail.com>
	<00f601cebe46$17ee1470$47ca3d50$@gmail.com>
	<CADUoy9sP5qWTK13SPKa9+ujiwrGZnf0ahGacf2O1caWyZ1UkQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D3B071F-CC0E-4E7F-ABE4-00DED16AF486@gmail.com>

The .brf files from Bookshare also require a Braille display.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure about the braille files from bookshare, but I know the
> ones from bard have to have a braille display, or they won't read
> properly.  I have around 11 gigs worth of bard books downloaded on my
> computer at present.  I really like bookshare.  I use kurzweil, to
> make audio files of the bookshare books.  I have installed a lot of
> different voices to choose from when I'm making an audio book.
> 
>> On 9/30/13, Kolby <kolby12091988 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Jewel,
>> In BARD Mobile, do you have to read the .brf files using a Braille display,
>> or can the files be read using voiceover?
>> Thank you,
>> Kolby
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 11:47:19 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 06:47:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
Message-ID: <524ab675.8160ec0a.6907.ffffe169@mx.google.com>

Chris, I'm surprised they'd give you that info. I mean, doesn't 
that violate some student privacy law?

 ----- Original Message -----
From: christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:12:27 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects

Suzanne,

On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers
asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once 
they
have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the
students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from
which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well 
as to
simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high 
school,
but you should be able to do this also with your college 
professor.

Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in 
my
class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with 
students
I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not know
anyone in the class or if the people I know already have 
partners, I
will just pick a random name from the class roster and go from 
there.
If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another
student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or 
who
needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) 
I am
working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or 
read
material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know me, 
I
find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This is
especially important for group projects in science or math 
related
classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the above
suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.

Hope this helps,

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> 
wrote:

 I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages 
class.

 what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 
2-3 people.

 I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had 
any of
 these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my 
current
 classes.

 I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle 
to my left.
 One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit 
at the
 larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and 
cctv. The
 other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from 
beside you
 that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I 
haven't spoken to
 anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a 
couple that
 obviously know each other outside of the class.

 I can be very social for example where I did my internship 
because we were
 all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with 
a couple
 of people at a time.

 I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no 
reason. I
 also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.

 I only want to work with those who also want A's.

 Suzanne
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com


From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct  1 12:29:56 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 05:29:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
In-Reply-To: <524ab675.8160ec0a.6907.ffffe169@mx.google.com>
References: <524ab675.8160ec0a.6907.ffffe169@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avdxiW5=qEqJENazQAr2AzWD4qvnCV4uTO2OqCvmFW+dJg@mail.gmail.com>

Our class rosters are up on blackboard.


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>wrote:

> Chris, I'm surprised they'd give you that info. I mean, doesn't that
> violate some student privacy law?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:12:27 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
>
> Suzanne,
>
> On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers
> asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once they
> have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the
> students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from
> which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well as to
> simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high school,
> but you should be able to do this also with your college professor.
>
> Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my
> class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with students
> I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not know
> anyone in the class or if the people I know already have partners, I
> will just pick a random name from the class roster and go from there.
> If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another
> student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who
> needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I am
> working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or read
> material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know me, I
> find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This is
> especially important for group projects in science or math related
> classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the above
> suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>
> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
>
> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3
> people.
>
> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
> classes.
>
> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my left.
> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from beside you
> that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't spoken to
> anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple that
> obviously know each other outside of the class.
>
> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we were
> all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a couple
> of people at a time.
>
> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason. I
> also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
>
> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
>
> Suzanne
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**dotkid.nusbau<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau>
> m%40gmail.com
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**sweetpeareade<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade>
> r%40gmail.com
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**sgermano%40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu>
>

From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 13:30:13 2013
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 09:30:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Meet The Blind Month
Message-ID: <524ace7d.0145e00a.1140.ffff999d@mx.google.com>

Happy Meet The Blind Month everyone.  I hope that the events from 
our state affiliates will bring more members into our 
organization.


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 19:01:50 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 15:01:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
In-Reply-To: <684701DF5B504EC99BD2D54D0EB7B2F3@OwnerPC>
References: <BLU172-DS1282A35FCCEAFD7CB7C52CF5140@phx.gbl>
	<684701DF5B504EC99BD2D54D0EB7B2F3@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYFBhVGxOC7uMCE1URS0q2sMrGk2cYpgJ=pizZM3U=geQ@mail.gmail.com>

Helga,

I would really just ask the DS office personelle if you can use a
printer somewhere.  Often the people in the student computer labs
don't know what BrailleNotes are and therefore don't understand that
just printing off of them is not a big deal.  You can also just ask
ther person what kind of printer is there and check to see if it is on
the list of accessible printers I posted earlier.

As Ryan said, the Ink Jets and some Desk Jets are made for business
people who travel and might not have access to printers without them,
but I'd be weary of carrying it around all day in a backpack for it to
get bumped or broken in some way.  I would really try to find a
printer that will hook up to your BrailleNote via USB, Bluetooth, or
Infrared connection so you don't have to deal with carrying a printer
around.

On 9/30/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Helga,
>
> I have a version of the braille note below yours. But its mostly the same
> for printing.
> Yes, there are several compatable printers. Go online to find out the
> compatability.
> Purchase from a typical store like Best Buy or office store like Staples or
>
> Office Depot.
>
> I think you could probably print from a school printer in your dss office.
> However, if you need a printer, just put it in your dorm. I'm not sure what
>
> you mean by portable.
> Most small ink jet printers are sort of portable meaning they are compact
> and light enough to transport to your dorm. But don't carry it all day in
> your backpack!
>
> Since I generated all work to turn in from my pc, I printed from it to the
> printer in my dorm.
> So I had no need to print from the Empower.
>
> I also think that if the school or a professor has a printer with infared
> port, and your braille note has the infared port, then that is a very easy
> way to print; it requires no wires.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 12:10 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students
> Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
>
> Hi all, this is helga. I just wanted to ask you, Do some of you use a
> BrailleNote Apex for college classes and assignments? If you do, Does the
> BrailleNote Apex has a compatible portable printer that I could purchase?
> And if it does, do you know which kind of printer, and where could I buy it?
>
> I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks so
>
> much and God bless!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  1 19:25:28 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 15:25:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] driver's license requirements for jobs
In-Reply-To: <21238464-D188-4F42-BDB2-27175249234F@gmail.com>
References: <5249F198.9060709@comcast.net>
	<CAF=_avcRWhg55ObJek4bbmQY_3Ld-TG8VUiTD=kWNP6avxgq=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<5249F9D4.3010708@comcast.net>
	<21238464-D188-4F42-BDB2-27175249234F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16B624FE-C68F-4E31-89C2-35457596E143@yahoo.com>

Jamie, the job isn't simply asking for identification. It's asking that applicants have a driver's license and car with insurance. 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 1, 2013, at 1:02 AM, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Why? That takes up so much space. Why waste the space and time when the law is well established and in our favor? When I see applications that ask for a DL# I always, by default, fill in my ID#. This isn't even an issue. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 9/30/2013 3:57 PM, Suzanne Germano wrote:
>>> They really shouldn't have to put anything since it is law that for any job
>>> you have to prove you have the right to work in the US so ID & SS card etc
>>> 
>>> They should only put DL if the job requires driving as part of the job
>>> requirements.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Beth Taurasi
>>> <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Bobbie, and all,
>>>> My bf Blake and I were going over this topic of driver's license
>>>> requirements.  We believe, in all honesty, that the most efficient thing an
>>>> employer should try is to write, "Driver license or other ID issued by the
>>>> United States."  But not writing "other form of ID" in the application
>>>> could put a barrier up against us.  Anyone think this could become a law or
>>>> something?  After all, there are some forms of employment that could
>>>> require a CDL (commercial driver's license).  That's obvious: truck drivers
>>>> and such.  But to those who are seeking internships, what say you all about
>>>> putting a clause in applications that says, "other form of ID" to break
>>>> down the barrier?
>>>> Beth
>>>> 
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**sgermano%40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net
>> Let's just say they could write something like "You must prove that you have the right to work in the United States i.e. you must own a work permit or ID."  There.  Does that sound good?
>> Beth
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 19:33:42 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 15:33:42 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYFBhVGxOC7uMCE1URS0q2sMrGk2cYpgJ=pizZM3U=geQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1282A35FCCEAFD7CB7C52CF5140@phx.gbl>	<684701DF5B504EC99BD2D54D0EB7B2F3@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FYFBhVGxOC7uMCE1URS0q2sMrGk2cYpgJ=pizZM3U=geQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005101cebedd$23f287f0$6bd797d0$@gmail.com>

I have found that explaining our accessible technology is a waisted effort.
Just get the tell them the bear necessities.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 3:02 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex

Helga,

I would really just ask the DS office personelle if you can use a printer
somewhere.  Often the people in the student computer labs don't know what
BrailleNotes are and therefore don't understand that just printing off of
them is not a big deal.  You can also just ask ther person what kind of
printer is there and check to see if it is on the list of accessible
printers I posted earlier.

As Ryan said, the Ink Jets and some Desk Jets are made for business people
who travel and might not have access to printers without them, but I'd be
weary of carrying it around all day in a backpack for it to get bumped or
broken in some way.  I would really try to find a printer that will hook up
to your BrailleNote via USB, Bluetooth, or Infrared connection so you don't
have to deal with carrying a printer around.

On 9/30/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Helga,
>
> I have a version of the braille note below yours. But its mostly the 
> same for printing.
> Yes, there are several compatable printers. Go online to find out the 
> compatability.
> Purchase from a typical store like Best Buy or office store like 
> Staples or
>
> Office Depot.
>
> I think you could probably print from a school printer in your dss office.
> However, if you need a printer, just put it in your dorm. I'm not sure 
> what
>
> you mean by portable.
> Most small ink jet printers are sort of portable meaning they are 
> compact and light enough to transport to your dorm. But don't carry it 
> all day in your backpack!
>
> Since I generated all work to turn in from my pc, I printed from it to 
> the printer in my dorm.
> So I had no need to print from the Empower.
>
> I also think that if the school or a professor has a printer with 
> infared port, and your braille note has the infared port, then that is 
> a very easy way to print; it requires no wires.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 12:10 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students
> Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
>
> Hi all, this is helga. I just wanted to ask you, Do some of you use a 
> BrailleNote Apex for college classes and assignments? If you do, Does 
> the BrailleNote Apex has a compatible portable printer that I could
purchase?
> And if it does, do you know which kind of printer, and where could I buy
it?
>
> I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions. 
> Thanks so
>
> much and God bless!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart
> hlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
> 40gmail.com
>


--
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 19:37:59 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 15:37:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] driver's license requirements for jobs
In-Reply-To: <16B624FE-C68F-4E31-89C2-35457596E143@yahoo.com>
References: <5249F198.9060709@comcast.net>	<CAF=_avcRWhg55ObJek4bbmQY_3Ld-TG8VUiTD=kWNP6avxgq=w@mail.gmail.com>	<5249F9D4.3010708@comcast.net>	<21238464-D188-4F42-BDB2-27175249234F@gmail.com>
	<16B624FE-C68F-4E31-89C2-35457596E143@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005201cebedd$bd4504f0$37cf0ed0$@gmail.com>

She knows,  she is just saying that if it asks for drivers licenses she puts
the state I di down.  However, our answer is the same; apply, call ask,
inquire, give you self a chance.  It's a hail marry maybe, but I have seen
desperation touch down passes caught by the receiver with four or five
defenders in the area.  Give yourself a chance. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bobbi Pompey
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 3:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] driver's license requirements for jobs

Jamie, the job isn't simply asking for identification. It's asking that
applicants have a driver's license and car with insurance. 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 1, 2013, at 1:02 AM, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
> Why? That takes up so much space. Why waste the space and time when the
law is well established and in our favor? When I see applications that ask
for a DL# I always, by default, fill in my ID#. This isn't even an issue. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>
wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 9/30/2013 3:57 PM, Suzanne Germano wrote:
>>> They really shouldn't have to put anything since it is law that for 
>>> any job you have to prove you have the right to work in the US so ID 
>>> & SS card etc
>>> 
>>> They should only put DL if the job requires driving as part of the 
>>> job requirements.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Beth Taurasi
>>> <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Bobbie, and all,
>>>> My bf Blake and I were going over this topic of driver's license 
>>>> requirements.  We believe, in all honesty, that the most efficient 
>>>> thing an employer should try is to write, "Driver license or other 
>>>> ID issued by the United States."  But not writing "other form of 
>>>> ID" in the application could put a barrier up against us.  Anyone 
>>>> think this could become a law or something?  After all, there are 
>>>> some forms of employment that could require a CDL (commercial 
>>>> driver's license).  That's obvious: truck drivers and such.  But to 
>>>> those who are seeking internships, what say you all about putting a 
>>>> clause in applications that says, "other form of ID" to break down the
barrier?
>>>> Beth
>>>> 
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbne
>>>> t.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**sgermano%40
>>>> asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgerman
>>>> o%40asu.edu>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%
>>> 40comcast.net
>> Let's just say they could write something like "You must prove that you
have the right to work in the United States i.e. you must own a work permit
or ID."  There.  Does that sound good?
>> Beth
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gm
>> ail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo
> .com
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  1 20:05:47 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 16:05:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYFBhVGxOC7uMCE1URS0q2sMrGk2cYpgJ=pizZM3U=geQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1282A35FCCEAFD7CB7C52CF5140@phx.gbl><684701DF5B504EC99BD2D54D0EB7B2F3@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FYFBhVGxOC7uMCE1URS0q2sMrGk2cYpgJ=pizZM3U=geQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27736E36E54F4B88B77E7532BFF04C1E@OwnerPC>

Kaiti,
Actually, it wass me who commented about the small ink jet printers.
I agree with you; best to ask the dss office.
Alternatively, I highly suggest putting a small printer such as an hp 
printer in your dorm room.
Do not carry it around with you as it will likely be bumped or damaged.


You're right the dss folks may need some education as to how easy it is to 
print from your printer.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 3:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex

Helga,

I would really just ask the DS office personelle if you can use a
printer somewhere.  Often the people in the student computer labs
don't know what BrailleNotes are and therefore don't understand that
just printing off of them is not a big deal.  You can also just ask
ther person what kind of printer is there and check to see if it is on
the list of accessible printers I posted earlier.

As Ryan said, the Ink Jets and some Desk Jets are made for business
people who travel and might not have access to printers without them,
but I'd be weary of carrying it around all day in a backpack for it to
get bumped or broken in some way.  I would really try to find a
printer that will hook up to your BrailleNote via USB, Bluetooth, or
Infrared connection so you don't have to deal with carrying a printer
around.

On 9/30/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Helga,
>
> I have a version of the braille note below yours. But its mostly the same
> for printing.
> Yes, there are several compatable printers. Go online to find out the
> compatability.
> Purchase from a typical store like Best Buy or office store like Staples 
> or
>
> Office Depot.
>
> I think you could probably print from a school printer in your dss office.
> However, if you need a printer, just put it in your dorm. I'm not sure 
> what
>
> you mean by portable.
> Most small ink jet printers are sort of portable meaning they are compact
> and light enough to transport to your dorm. But don't carry it all day in
> your backpack!
>
> Since I generated all work to turn in from my pc, I printed from it to the
> printer in my dorm.
> So I had no need to print from the Empower.
>
> I also think that if the school or a professor has a printer with infared
> port, and your braille note has the infared port, then that is a very easy
> way to print; it requires no wires.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 12:10 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students
> Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
>
> Hi all, this is helga. I just wanted to ask you, Do some of you use a
> BrailleNote Apex for college classes and assignments? If you do, Does the
> BrailleNote Apex has a compatible portable printer that I could purchase?
> And if it does, do you know which kind of printer, and where could I buy 
> it?
>
> I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks 
> so
>
> much and God bless!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From jim.hulme at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 21:12:19 2013
From: jim.hulme at gmail.com (James Hulme)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 17:12:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Meet The Blind Month
In-Reply-To: <524ace7d.0145e00a.1140.ffff999d@mx.google.com>
References: <524ace7d.0145e00a.1140.ffff999d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAKMC2e4Vo6eCZNEJOuioADkG5M0DC8VWjJHUT9o8G3XcPjPUXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Can you please give me your complete contact information?? Can you please
provide other details about October Mett teh Blind Month for NFB?


Jimmy Hulme
908-868-2836 (Mobile)
jim.hulme at gmail.com


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Happy Meet The Blind Month everyone.  I hope that the events from our
> state affiliates will bring more members into our organization.
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jim.**
> hulme%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jim.hulme%40gmail.com>
>

From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  1 21:27:43 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 17:27:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
In-Reply-To: <005101cebedd$23f287f0$6bd797d0$@gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1282A35FCCEAFD7CB7C52CF5140@phx.gbl>
	<684701DF5B504EC99BD2D54D0EB7B2F3@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FYFBhVGxOC7uMCE1URS0q2sMrGk2cYpgJ=pizZM3U=geQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<005101cebedd$23f287f0$6bd797d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU402-EAS341B0829CD496AEE8AA6F25F5150@phx.gbl>

Hi Justin, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I have many issues with my Dissability Adviser at my college. I actually think you're right Justin, because my DSS office don't really understand how many accessivle machines I need in order to be successful in college! And it's very hard to explain it to them. Thanks for listening to me. God bless!!     m  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 1, 2013, at 3:34 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have found that explaining our accessible technology is a waisted effort.
> Just get the tell them the bear necessities.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 3:02 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
> 
> Helga,
> 
> I would really just ask the DS office personelle if you can use a printer
> somewhere.  Often the people in the student computer labs don't know what
> BrailleNotes are and therefore don't understand that just printing off of
> them is not a big deal.  You can also just ask ther person what kind of
> printer is there and check to see if it is on the list of accessible
> printers I posted earlier.
> 
> As Ryan said, the Ink Jets and some Desk Jets are made for business people
> who travel and might not have access to printers without them, but I'd be
> weary of carrying it around all day in a backpack for it to get bumped or
> broken in some way.  I would really try to find a printer that will hook up
> to your BrailleNote via USB, Bluetooth, or Infrared connection so you don't
> have to deal with carrying a printer around.
> 
>> On 9/30/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Helga,
>> 
>> I have a version of the braille note below yours. But its mostly the 
>> same for printing.
>> Yes, there are several compatable printers. Go online to find out the 
>> compatability.
>> Purchase from a typical store like Best Buy or office store like 
>> Staples or
>> 
>> Office Depot.
>> 
>> I think you could probably print from a school printer in your dss office.
>> However, if you need a printer, just put it in your dorm. I'm not sure 
>> what
>> 
>> you mean by portable.
>> Most small ink jet printers are sort of portable meaning they are 
>> compact and light enough to transport to your dorm. But don't carry it 
>> all day in your backpack!
>> 
>> Since I generated all work to turn in from my pc, I printed from it to 
>> the printer in my dorm.
>> So I had no need to print from the Empower.
>> 
>> I also think that if the school or a professor has a printer with 
>> infared port, and your braille note has the infared port, then that is 
>> a very easy way to print; it requires no wires.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Helga Schreiber
>> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 12:10 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students
>> Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
>> 
>> Hi all, this is helga. I just wanted to ask you, Do some of you use a 
>> BrailleNote Apex for college classes and assignments? If you do, Does 
>> the BrailleNote Apex has a compatible portable printer that I could
> purchase?
>> And if it does, do you know which kind of printer, and where could I buy
> it?
>> 
>> I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions. 
>> Thanks so
>> 
>> much and God bless!
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart
>> hlink.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>> 40gmail.com
> 
> 
> --
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 22:45:35 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 18:45:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
Message-ID: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>

Do we know when the bard site will be up again?


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 22:48:29 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 16:48:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com>

That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. Ask your representative. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  1 22:53:36 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 18:53:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <90FEC2B942CF4D37AC2F8B9B079AABF6@OwnerPC>

when federal employees are told  to return to work is when it will be up.
The last government shut down lasted several weeks. I'd suggest using the 
old fashioned mail service  from your cooperating library for now.
You can also use bookshare more for books or even go to your public library 
and
check out audio books on cd. I know mine has a fair amount of them.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: justin williams
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 6:45 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Cc: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site

Do we know when the bard site will be up again?

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From juanitatighan at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 22:56:58 2013
From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 18:56:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <418DAC51-C43F-4A31-A7A9-2AEBE3BECCAC@gmail.com>

Whenever the government is no longer shut down.

Jane




On Oct 1, 2013, at 6:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com



From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com  Tue Oct  1 23:29:17 2013
From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 18:29:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Good evening everyone,

    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government 
shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars during 
this time so we need not be without books to read.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. Ask 
your representative. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From tyler at tysdomain.com  Tue Oct  1 23:34:01 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 19:34:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com>
	<004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <524B5BE9.7000407@tysdomain.com>

Talking about privatizing nls is all good and well, but they happen to 
be well, part of the government. Talking about privatizing it might be 
nice, but there are a ton of issues you'd have to deal with. Getting 
money for funding is part of it.
On 10/1/2013 7:29 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
> Good evening everyone,
>
>      Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
> shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars during
> this time so we need not be without books to read.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
>
> That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. Ask
> your representative. :-)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com


-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  2 00:16:53 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 20:16:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com>
	<004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>

I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
blue, they're all a little cray cray.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site

Good evening everyone,

    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars during
this time so we need not be without books to read.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. Ask

your representative. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
om

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Wed Oct  2 00:22:05 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 00:22:05 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com>
	<004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>,
	<006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2753a02572ba457aa9afe3f15ca96f86@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

There are a whole lot of things that need to be privatized, but we can't discuss them here!
This is prompting me to start my own list on Fiesta to discuss political issues.
If any of you are interested, please write me off list, and I'll set it up!
Both sides of the aisle are welcome on my list, but no vulgarity or belittling the other side will be tolerated, unless I can see some bloviating going on, and I'm talking about from both sides!
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joe [jsoro620 at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site

I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
blue, they're all a little cray cray.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site

Good evening everyone,

    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars during
this time so we need not be without books to read.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. Ask

your representative. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
om

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From tyler at tysdomain.com  Wed Oct  2 00:47:07 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 20:47:07 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <2753a02572ba457aa9afe3f15ca96f86@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com>
	<004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>,
	<006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>
	<2753a02572ba457aa9afe3f15ca96f86@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <524B6D0B.5090605@tysdomain.com>

Everyone needs a set of rules I suppose, but why not just say... Join 
one of the 50000 other political lists out there? The solution to a 
problem for way to many folks who want to have some power somewhere is 
to dash off and create yet another list.

As for privatizing things, that never has or never really will be a 
solution for many things. Private corporations suffer just as many 
issues as our government will. Bard will be back up in a week or two and 
you'll all have your books to download. Until then, enjoy bookshare or 
check out podiobooks.com, or if you have the money for it graphic audio 
or audible.
On 10/1/2013 8:22 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> There are a whole lot of things that need to be privatized, but we can't discuss them here!
> This is prompting me to start my own list on Fiesta to discuss political issues.
> If any of you are interested, please write me off list, and I'll set it up!
> Both sides of the aisle are welcome on my list, but no vulgarity or belittling the other side will be tolerated, unless I can see some bloviating going on, and I'm talking about from both sides!
> Thanks, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joe [jsoro620 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
> I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
> the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
> not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
> 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
> the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
> and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
> servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
> national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
> blue, they're all a little cray cray.
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
> Good evening everyone,
>
>      Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
> shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars during
> this time so we need not be without books to read.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
>
> That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. Ask
>
> your representative. :-)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
> om
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Oct  2 00:59:04 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 19:59:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Vote for NFB Member Cheryl Echevarria for Best Travel
 Agency
Message-ID: <auto-000126850515@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>I need your help to get me to number 1.
>
>Last year, I was nominated but didn't get to number 1.
>
>You do not have to live on Long Island to vote.
>
>To vote for me, you can vote every day and vote often.
>
>You do not give any personal information, like name, address, phone 
>number, email, etc.
>
>If you can vote once a day until December 15, 2013. I know I can win 
>this year and share this triumph with all of you my NFB Family.
>
>Here are in instructions to vote.
>
>Instructions on how to vote!
>Please go to the link:
>
><http://bestof.longislandpress.com/voting/>http://bestof.longislandpress.com/voting/
>
>pick the category: Services
>
>once here click the vote tab!
>
>scroll down until you find Travel Agent/Agency
>
>There you will find my name and agency
>
>Cheryl Echevarria - Echevarria Travel, Brentwood
>
>Please click this one.
>
>Scroll to the bottom of the page and click terms and conditions. No 
>one will ask for your e-mail name, etc.
>
>And then click Enter Now!
>
>Thank you!
>
>
>
>
>
>Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
>Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>
>Cheryl Echevarria, Owner
><http://www.echevarriatravel.com>www.echevarriatravel.com
>631-456-5394
>reservations at echevarriatravel.com
><http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com>www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
>
>
>Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose Travel
>CST - #1018299-10 FLST T156780
>Your old car keys can be the keys to literacy for a blind 
>child.  Donate your unwanted vehicle to us by clicking 
>https://nfb.org/vehicledonations or call 855-659-9314.
>Echevarria Travel has partnered with Braille Smith. 
>http://www.braillesmith.com for all her braille needs.
>Gail Smith is the Secretary of the NFB of Alabama

From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Wed Oct  2 01:00:22 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 01:00:22 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <524B6D0B.5090605@tysdomain.com>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com>
	<004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>,
	<006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>
	<2753a02572ba457aa9afe3f15ca96f86@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<524B6D0B.5090605@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <8ec8fb9cb2164d7e8d9366bb415bb680@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

To keep this on the topic of our list, captias are a problem with other blogs, no matter what the topic, so to use a captia free server will be awesome!
That's why I'm using Fiesta, because there's no captia crap to worry about.
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Littlefield, Tyler [tyler at tysdomain.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site

Everyone needs a set of rules I suppose, but why not just say... Join
one of the 50000 other political lists out there? The solution to a
problem for way to many folks who want to have some power somewhere is
to dash off and create yet another list.

As for privatizing things, that never has or never really will be a
solution for many things. Private corporations suffer just as many
issues as our government will. Bard will be back up in a week or two and
you'll all have your books to download. Until then, enjoy bookshare or
check out podiobooks.com, or if you have the money for it graphic audio
or audible.
On 10/1/2013 8:22 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> There are a whole lot of things that need to be privatized, but we can't discuss them here!
> This is prompting me to start my own list on Fiesta to discuss political issues.
> If any of you are interested, please write me off list, and I'll set it up!
> Both sides of the aisle are welcome on my list, but no vulgarity or belittling the other side will be tolerated, unless I can see some bloviating going on, and I'm talking about from both sides!
> Thanks, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joe [jsoro620 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
> I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
> the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
> not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
> 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
> the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
> and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
> servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
> national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
> blue, they're all a little cray cray.
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
> Good evening everyone,
>
>      Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
> shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars during
> this time so we need not be without books to read.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
>
> That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. Ask
>
> your representative. :-)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
> om
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com


--
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com  Wed Oct  2 01:48:28 2013
From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 20:48:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Good evening,

    Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from 
governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
blue, they're all a little cray cray.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site

Good evening everyone,

    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars during
this time so we need not be without books to read.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. Ask

your representative. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
om

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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_______________________________________________
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From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com  Wed Oct  2 01:51:09 2013
From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 20:51:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com><65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<524B5BE9.7000407@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <004501cebf11$de35f370$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Good evening everyone,

    Something Benetech succeeded in doing. Others should follow their 
example. Because of their efforts the stream of accessible books can keep 
flowing despite the nonsense in Washington.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


Talking about privatizing nls is all good and well, but they happen to
be well, part of the government. Talking about privatizing it might be
nice, but there are a ton of issues you'd have to deal with. Getting
money for funding is part of it.
On 10/1/2013 7:29 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
> Good evening everyone,
>
>      Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
> shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars 
> during
> this time so we need not be without books to read.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
>
> That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. 
> Ask
> your representative. :-)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" 
>> <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com


-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that 
dares not reason is a slave.


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From tyler at tysdomain.com  Wed Oct  2 01:56:50 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 21:56:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>
	<002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <524B7D62.1070604@tysdomain.com>

It's good if you have the money to pay. I'd rather not see bard go the 
same way as RFBD (whatever they're calling that mess now). There's also 
stuff like web braille. If it goes down every 20 years when congress 
can't agree on something, so be it I suppose, but it's worth remembering 
that not everyone has the money to pay for these subscriptions to 10 
different companies. Bard is free and should remain that way for these 
people, as it is a great service. I got a lot of books from the talking 
book librariy when I was younger and I certainly know we didn't have the 
money to subscribe me to all sorts of different paid services.
On 10/1/2013 9:48 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
> Good evening,
>
>      Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
> governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
>
> I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
> the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
> not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
> 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
> the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
> and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
> servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
> national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
> blue, they're all a little cray cray.
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
> Good evening everyone,
>
>      Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
> shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars during
> this time so we need not be without books to read.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
>
> That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. Ask
>
> your representative. :-)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
> om
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From i.c.bray at win.net  Wed Oct  2 02:09:37 2013
From: i.c.bray at win.net (I. C. Bray)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 22:09:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>
	<002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <479E3E66E8FA44ACB5C1F746263FCB9B@JAWS>

You would not have a braille / audio book collection if not for the federal 
government.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


: Good evening,
:
:    Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
: governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
:
: Peter Donahue
:
: ----- Original Message ----- 
: From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
: To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
:
: I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
: the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
: not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
: 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
: the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
: and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
: servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
: national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
: blue, they're all a little cray cray.
:
: Joe
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
: To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
: Good evening everyone,
:
:    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
: shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars 
during
: this time so we need not be without books to read.
:
: Peter Donahue
:
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
:
: That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. 
Ask
:
: your representative. :-)
:
: Sent from my iPhone
:
: > On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" 
<justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
:
: > wrote:
: >
: > Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: >
: 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
: om
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
: 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
: 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net 



From i.c.bray at win.net  Wed Oct  2 02:10:46 2013
From: i.c.bray at win.net (I. C. Bray)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 22:10:46 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com><002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<524B7D62.1070604@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <62994F12C88B482FBF7BD04C25E7C4AB@JAWS>

PREACH IT TYLER!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


: It's good if you have the money to pay. I'd rather not see bard go the
: same way as RFBD (whatever they're calling that mess now). There's also
: stuff like web braille. If it goes down every 20 years when congress
: can't agree on something, so be it I suppose, but it's worth remembering
: that not everyone has the money to pay for these subscriptions to 10
: different companies. Bard is free and should remain that way for these
: people, as it is a great service. I got a lot of books from the talking
: book librariy when I was younger and I certainly know we didn't have the
: money to subscribe me to all sorts of different paid services.
: On 10/1/2013 9:48 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
: > Good evening,
: >
: >      Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections 
from
: > governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
: >
: > Peter Donahue
: >
: > ----- Original Message -----
: > From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
: > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
: > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
: > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
: >
: >
: > I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm 
of
: > the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to 
pay,
: > not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for 
the
: > 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure 
why
: > the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT 
staff,
: > and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
: > servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
: > national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
: > blue, they're all a little cray cray.
: >
: > Joe
: >
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter 
Donahue
: > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
: > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
: >
: > Good evening everyone,
: >
: >      Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to 
government
: > shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars 
during
: > this time so we need not be without books to read.
: >
: > Peter Donahue
: >
: >
: > ----- Original Message -----
: > From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
: > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
: > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
: >
: >
: > That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. 
Ask
: >
: > your representative. :-)
: >
: > Sent from my iPhone
: >
: >> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" 
<justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
: >> wrote:
: >>
: >> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
: >>
: >> _______________________________________________
: >> nabs-l mailing list
: >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: >> nabs-l:
: >>
: > 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
: > om
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: > 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
: >
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
: >
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: > 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
: >
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
: > 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
:
:
: -- 
: Take care,
: Ty
: http://tds-solutions.net
: He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he 
that dares not reason is a slave.
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net 



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Oct  2 02:37:33 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 21:37:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000126856624@mailfront3.g2host.com>

After the Government shutdown is over.

Dave

At 05:45 PM 10/1/2013, you wrote:
>Do we know when the bard site will be up again?



From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Wed Oct  2 03:21:25 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 21:21:25 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <479E3E66E8FA44ACB5C1F746263FCB9B@JAWS>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com>
	<004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>
	<002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<479E3E66E8FA44ACB5C1F746263FCB9B@JAWS>
Message-ID: <C8ECA136-A170-4F84-970F-9B2761C3187F@gmail.com>

Ignasi,
That is, at the very least, debatable… but probably beyond the scope of this list.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 1, 2013, at 8:09 PM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
> 
> You would not have a braille / audio book collection if not for the federal 
> government.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> 
> 
> : Good evening,
> :
> :    Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
> : governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
> :
> : Peter Donahue
> :
> : ----- Original Message ----- 
> : From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> : To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> : <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> : Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> :
> :
> : I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
> : the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
> : not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
> : 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
> : the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
> : and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
> : servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
> : national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
> : blue, they're all a little cray cray.
> :
> : Joe
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> : Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> :
> : Good evening everyone,
> :
> :    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
> : shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars 
> during
> : this time so we need not be without books to read.
> :
> : Peter Donahue
> :
> :
> : ----- Original Message -----
> : From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> : To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> : <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> : Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> :
> :
> : That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. 
> Ask
> :
> : your representative. :-)
> :
> : Sent from my iPhone
> :
> : > On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" 
> <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> :
> : > wrote:
> : >
> : > Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
> : >
> : > _______________________________________________
> : > nabs-l mailing list
> : > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : > nabs-l:
> : >
> : 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
> : om
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> : 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> : 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  2 03:56:19 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:56:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <62994F12C88B482FBF7BD04C25E7C4AB@JAWS>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com><002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><524B7D62.1070604@tysdomain.com>
	<62994F12C88B482FBF7BD04C25E7C4AB@JAWS>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS165D1A0086AC46ADA0EE73F5160@phx.gbl>

Hi guys, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I really like the 
Bard website due to the fact that I like to download books from it, but I 
was actually very sad when I heard that they were going to shut it down, due 
to the Federal Government Shut Down. This website helps me a lot because I 
was able to download some stories that I needed to read for my Literature 
class to my BrailleNote Apex. Also, I think that Tayler is right, when he 
says that many of us don't have money in order to pay subscriptions in order 
to get books in audio, and that's the case with me. I'm actually a member of 
RFBD in order to get my college books in audio, but I can't pay my 
subscription this semester because they told me that I need to  pay 119 
dolars for my subscription. And I talked to my DBS Counceler about this, but 
she told me that she would not pay my subscription because I'm not a full 
time student and their policy says that they can't do that. What do you 
think about that? Just wondering. Also, hope that Bard gets fix soon? :) 
Thanks and God bless!!

-----Original Message----- 
From: I. C. Bray
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 10:10 PM
To: tyler at tysdomain.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site

PREACH IT TYLER!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


: It's good if you have the money to pay. I'd rather not see bard go the
: same way as RFBD (whatever they're calling that mess now). There's also
: stuff like web braille. If it goes down every 20 years when congress
: can't agree on something, so be it I suppose, but it's worth remembering
: that not everyone has the money to pay for these subscriptions to 10
: different companies. Bard is free and should remain that way for these
: people, as it is a great service. I got a lot of books from the talking
: book librariy when I was younger and I certainly know we didn't have the
: money to subscribe me to all sorts of different paid services.
: On 10/1/2013 9:48 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
: > Good evening,
: >
: >      Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections
from
: > governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
: >
: > Peter Donahue
: >
: > ----- Original Message -----
: > From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
: > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
: > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
: > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
: >
: >
: > I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm
of
: > the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to
pay,
: > not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for
the
: > 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure
why
: > the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT
staff,
: > and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
: > servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
: > national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
: > blue, they're all a little cray cray.
: >
: > Joe
: >
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Donahue
: > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
: > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
: >
: > Good evening everyone,
: >
: >      Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to
government
: > shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars
during
: > this time so we need not be without books to read.
: >
: > Peter Donahue
: >
: >
: > ----- Original Message -----
: > From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
: > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
: > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
: >
: >
: > That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together.
Ask
: >
: > your representative. :-)
: >
: > Sent from my iPhone
: >
: >> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams"
<justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
: >> wrote:
: >>
: >> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
: >>
: >> _______________________________________________
: >> nabs-l mailing list
: >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: >> nabs-l:
: >>
: >
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
: > om
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: >
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
: >
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
: >
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: >
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
: >
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
: >
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
:
:
: -- 
: Take care,
: Ty
: http://tds-solutions.net
: He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
that dares not reason is a slave.
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  2 14:04:45 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 10:04:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <524B7D62.1070604@tysdomain.com>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com><002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<524B7D62.1070604@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <50E0470DDF4A40239E2E24528B7FCEAD@OwnerPC>

Hi,
I agree with Tyler and others who say we should keep NLS services free and 
this includes Bard!
Its only ocassionally the congress cannot agree on a budget and shuts the 
government down.
I know I loved talking books too as a kid and we would not have gotten that 
if we had to pay.
My family already paid for extra items like talking calculators, braille 
paper, and labeling supplies.
My sighted counterparts can go to free public libraries! I should be able to 
have a free library too.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Littlefield, Tyler
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site

It's good if you have the money to pay. I'd rather not see bard go the
same way as RFBD (whatever they're calling that mess now). There's also
stuff like web braille. If it goes down every 20 years when congress
can't agree on something, so be it I suppose, but it's worth remembering
that not everyone has the money to pay for these subscriptions to 10
different companies. Bard is free and should remain that way for these
people, as it is a great service. I got a lot of books from the talking
book librariy when I was younger and I certainly know we didn't have the
money to subscribe me to all sorts of different paid services.
On 10/1/2013 9:48 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
> Good evening,
>
>      Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
> governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
>
> I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
> the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
> not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
> 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
> the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
> and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
> servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
> national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
> blue, they're all a little cray cray.
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
> Good evening everyone,
>
>      Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
> shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars 
> during
> this time so we need not be without books to read.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
>
> That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. 
> Ask
>
> your representative. :-)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" 
>> <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
> om
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that 
dares not reason is a slave.


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  2 14:12:17 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 10:12:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <50E0470DDF4A40239E2E24528B7FCEAD@OwnerPC>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com>
	<004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>
	<002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<524B7D62.1070604@tysdomain.com>
	<50E0470DDF4A40239E2E24528B7FCEAD@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <C98E6DEC-6C49-4218-AF2B-093B91C91FD8@gmail.com>

Yeah exactly Ashley, I agree completely.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2013, at 10:04 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I agree with Tyler and others who say we should keep NLS services free and this includes Bard!
> Its only ocassionally the congress cannot agree on a budget and shuts the government down.
> I know I loved talking books too as a kid and we would not have gotten that if we had to pay.
> My family already paid for extra items like talking calculators, braille paper, and labeling supplies.
> My sighted counterparts can go to free public libraries! I should be able to have a free library too.
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:56 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> 
> It's good if you have the money to pay. I'd rather not see bard go the
> same way as RFBD (whatever they're calling that mess now). There's also
> stuff like web braille. If it goes down every 20 years when congress
> can't agree on something, so be it I suppose, but it's worth remembering
> that not everyone has the money to pay for these subscriptions to 10
> different companies. Bard is free and should remain that way for these
> people, as it is a great service. I got a lot of books from the talking
> book librariy when I was younger and I certainly know we didn't have the
> money to subscribe me to all sorts of different paid services.
>> On 10/1/2013 9:48 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>> Good evening,
>> 
>>     Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
>> governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
>> 
>> Peter Donahue
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>> 
>> 
>> I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
>> the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
>> not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
>> 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
>> the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
>> and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
>> servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
>> national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
>> blue, they're all a little cray cray.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>> 
>> Good evening everyone,
>> 
>>     Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
>> shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars during
>> this time so we need not be without books to read.
>> 
>> Peter Donahue
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>> 
>> 
>> That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together. Ask
>> 
>> your representative. :-)
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
>> om
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Take care,
> Ty
> http://tds-solutions.net
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com  Wed Oct  2 14:40:47 2013
From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 09:40:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com><002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<479E3E66E8FA44ACB5C1F746263FCB9B@JAWS>
Message-ID: <004d01cebf7d$62a39cf0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Good morning everyone,

    What you mean is that there would not be a Braille and talking book Web 
site still available despite the government shutdown. The folks that really 
shut BARD down is none other than us. Society didn't tell us to be overly 
dependent on the government to provide this and other services. Folks we're 
doing that to ourselves and need to stop being overly dependent on others to 
fund and operate these programs for us. Thank God for the likes of Jim 
Fructerman, Ray Kurzweil, and others. This should be an opportunity  for us 
to rediscover what Bookshare.org and Blio have to offer. It should also 
cause us to put our thinking caps on and find ways to protect BARD and other 
services we've come to depend on from government shutdowns. A yearly 
subscription to Bookshare.org is only $50.00. Forgo some of the booz and the 
smokes and subscribe so the books can keep coming to you. These 
subscriptions are far superior to BARD. We have found lots of books on 
Bookshare.org not available through BARD. It's $50.00 well-spent if you 
asked us. Since we're both Bookshare.org members the yearly charge is 
$100.00 and we find the money to keep our subscriptions active. Furthermore 
I believe Bookshare.org still has the free student membership. Check it out.

    If we keep going down the path of stinking thinking the next time 
there's another federal shutdown we'll have no one but ourselves to blame 
because we failed to protect BARD and other services we rely on from such 
mayhem.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


You would not have a braille / audio book collection if not for the federal
government.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


: Good evening,
:
:    Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
: governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
:
: Peter Donahue
:
: ----- Original Message ----- 
: From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
: To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
:
: I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
: the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
: not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
: 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
: the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
: and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
: servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
: national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
: blue, they're all a little cray cray.
:
: Joe
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
: To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
: Good evening everyone,
:
:    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
: shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars
during
: this time so we need not be without books to read.
:
: Peter Donahue
:
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
:
: That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together.
Ask
:
: your representative. :-)
:
: Sent from my iPhone
:
: > On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams"
<justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
:
: > wrote:
: >
: > Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: >
:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
: om
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From tyler at tysdomain.com  Wed Oct  2 14:55:20 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 10:55:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <004d01cebf7d$62a39cf0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com><002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<479E3E66E8FA44ACB5C1F746263FCB9B@JAWS>
	<004d01cebf7d$62a39cf0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <524C33D8.7090800@tysdomain.com>

OK peter, it's all on you now. Get that thinking cap on and lets figure 
this out. When I was younger, my mother worked a full time job and also 
went to school full time while supporting two of us. We lived in Phoenix 
and had no air conditioner in our vehicle because we simply could not 
afford it. I suppose she should've foregone some of the beer and smokes 
though.
now that your thinking cap is on and well, these services are only $50 
and it's all our fault Bard is down, lets start planning, shall we?
How do you plan to:
1) Liberate NLS and bard from the government
2) Fund the narrators and readers and all the employees that work at 
these libraries to give us books. Let me give you some figures.
Lets say 10000 people a year subscribe to bard at the low low price of 
$50 a year (they've chosen to forego their smokes and beer). That gives 
us $500000 a year to work with. Now lets say we have I don't know, 20 
employees that make minimum wage and work 40 hours a week. 8*20 = $160 
an hour for these employees, but lets figure this out for the whole 
year. We'll even give them 35 days off, shall we?
8*20 = 160 --we pay $160 an hour to all of our 20 employees.
160 * 40 = 6400 --we pay $6400 a week to all of our 20 employees
6400 * 48 (we gave them 35 days off) = 224000
Now obviously 20 employees is a really low number. If you double that 
you're almost at your really really optimistic 10000 subscribers with 
only 40 employees.
Now that we have our thinking cap on, how do you propose to solve this 
problem? On another note, do you believe that we would have fre shipping 
through USPS if we were to liberate these organizations from our 
government? How would you plan to pay for mailing if not? (Some people 
stil do get books on cartredges). How about paying for the servers that 
hold all of these books, and the upkeep? I can guarantee you the people 
that secure and manage the servers make well above $8 an hour.

On 10/2/2013 10:40 AM, Peter Donahue wrote:
> Good morning everyone,
>
>      What you mean is that there would not be a Braille and talking book Web
> site still available despite the government shutdown. The folks that really
> shut BARD down is none other than us. Society didn't tell us to be overly
> dependent on the government to provide this and other services. Folks we're
> doing that to ourselves and need to stop being overly dependent on others to
> fund and operate these programs for us. Thank God for the likes of Jim
> Fructerman, Ray Kurzweil, and others. This should be an opportunity  for us
> to rediscover what Bookshare.org and Blio have to offer. It should also
> cause us to put our thinking caps on and find ways to protect BARD and other
> services we've come to depend on from government shutdowns. A yearly
> subscription to Bookshare.org is only $50.00. Forgo some of the booz and the
> smokes and subscribe so the books can keep coming to you. These
> subscriptions are far superior to BARD. We have found lots of books on
> Bookshare.org not available through BARD. It's $50.00 well-spent if you
> asked us. Since we're both Bookshare.org members the yearly charge is
> $100.00 and we find the money to keep our subscriptions active. Furthermore
> I believe Bookshare.org still has the free student membership. Check it out.
>
>      If we keep going down the path of stinking thinking the next time
> there's another federal shutdown we'll have no one but ourselves to blame
> because we failed to protect BARD and other services we rely on from such
> mayhem.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
>
> You would not have a braille / audio book collection if not for the federal
> government.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>
>
> : Good evening,
> :
> :    Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
> : governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
> :
> : Peter Donahue
> :
> : ----- Original Message -----
> : From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> : To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> : <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> : Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> :
> :
> : I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
> : the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
> : not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
> : 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
> : the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
> : and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
> : servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
> : national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
> : blue, they're all a little cray cray.
> :
> : Joe
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> : Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> :
> : Good evening everyone,
> :
> :    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
> : shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars
> during
> : this time so we need not be without books to read.
> :
> : Peter Donahue
> :
> :
> : ----- Original Message -----
> : From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> : To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> : <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> : Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> :
> :
> : That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together.
> Ask
> :
> : your representative. :-)
> :
> : Sent from my iPhone
> :
> : > On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams"
> <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> :
> : > wrote:
> : >
> : > Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
> : >
> : > _______________________________________________
> : > nabs-l mailing list
> : > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : > nabs-l:
> : >
> :
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
> : om
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> :
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> :
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From dburke at cocenter.org  Wed Oct  2 15:42:11 2013
From: dburke at cocenter.org (Dan Burke)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 15:42:11 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] driver's license requirements for jobs
In-Reply-To: <16B624FE-C68F-4E31-89C2-35457596E143@yahoo.com>
References: <5249F198.9060709@comcast.net>
	<CAF=_avcRWhg55ObJek4bbmQY_3Ld-TG8VUiTD=kWNP6avxgq=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<5249F9D4.3010708@comcast.net>
	<21238464-D188-4F42-BDB2-27175249234F@gmail.com>
	<16B624FE-C68F-4E31-89C2-35457596E143@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <82755401efd8440b884d193584d227a6@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

This thread started out talking about internships.  The question of driving and reasonable accommodations on an internship brings up interesting questions of responsibility.

Bobbi, you should of course apply, whether for a job or for an internship.  If an internship, one of the learning possibilities is figuring out how to travel successfully on short notice.

If an internship is arranged through your college, then it is actually the school's responsibility to provide you with the reasonable accommodation.  Of course, the internship site must avoid discrimination based on your blindness, but ultimately the college is the place that gets the hit of paying for drivers, cabs or ensuring that internship site's computers are accessible with assistive technology, etc.  This is important because the ADA standard regarding what is reasonable to pay is much different for a college (especially a state-funded college( than if it is a small company or nonprofit.  The purpose of an internship is to gain experience and prove that you can do the job ultimately.  You should definitely press for the maximum opportunity and make the most of it!

There are a lot of jobs that employers believe require a driver's license but in fact only require the ability to get from one point to the other in a reasonable amount of time.  I suspect this is true because people can't imagine going anywhere without a car.  That's why we have traffic jams.

Dan




Dan Burke
Academic and Youth Services
Colorado Center for the Blind
Take charge with confidence and self-reliance

www.cocenter.org
facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
@CoCenter4Blind
www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg

2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
Littleton, CO  80120
303-778-1130 ext. 213
Fax:  303-778-1598


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bobbi Pompey
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 1:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] driver's license requirements for jobs

Jamie, the job isn't simply asking for identification. It's asking that applicants have a driver's license and car with insurance. 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 1, 2013, at 1:02 AM, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Why? That takes up so much space. Why waste the space and time when the law is well established and in our favor? When I see applications that ask for a DL# I always, by default, fill in my ID#. This isn't even an issue. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 9/30/2013 3:57 PM, Suzanne Germano wrote:
>>> They really shouldn't have to put anything since it is law that for any job
>>> you have to prove you have the right to work in the US so ID & SS card etc
>>> 
>>> They should only put DL if the job requires driving as part of the job
>>> requirements.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Beth Taurasi
>>> <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Bobbie, and all,
>>>> My bf Blake and I were going over this topic of driver's license
>>>> requirements.  We believe, in all honesty, that the most efficient thing an
>>>> employer should try is to write, "Driver license or other ID issued by the
>>>> United States."  But not writing "other form of ID" in the application
>>>> could put a barrier up against us.  Anyone think this could become a law or
>>>> something?  After all, there are some forms of employment that could
>>>> require a CDL (commercial driver's license).  That's obvious: truck drivers
>>>> and such.  But to those who are seeking internships, what say you all about
>>>> putting a clause in applications that says, "other form of ID" to break
>>>> down the barrier?
>>>> Beth
>>>> 
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**sgermano%40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net
>> Let's just say they could write something like "You must prove that you have the right to work in the United States i.e. you must own a work permit or ID."  There.  Does that sound good?
>> Beth
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Wed Oct  2 15:59:41 2013
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 10:59:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <004d01cebf7d$62a39cf0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <auto-000013944007@mailback3.g2host.com>

Peter,

I agree with you in part and I disagree in part.  All of this talk about BARD as a result of the government shutdown seems very 
much overblown to me.  Anyone who has been listening to the news should have downloaded a few extra books. My inability to 
download a BARD book seems pretty minor compared to the numerous hard-working government employees who are suddenly left without 
an income, people who need to apply for a service who can't, and people who have made plans that might include visiting government 
operated facilities who suddenly find them closed.  I would assume that we probably have blind vendors impacted as well, and 
unlike what will likely be the case for federal employees, the revenue lost by blind vendors, and other commercial operations 
thhat depend upon the traffic of federal employees, will not be regained when the shutdown ends.  

Having said that, times are changing.  We do need to consider that there are other sources for books besides NLS.  If we are 
lucky, we will need to get used to being able to pay for a book to get it right away as a commonplace in our lives.  Still, NLS 
does still serve as our public library, and the concept of a population having free access to literature from public libraries 
goes all the way back to Ben Franklin and is not a new concept.  Therefore, I don't think we should be feeling guilty for using 
BARD, but there are really more important impacts of the government shutdown.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 09:40:47 -0500, Peter Donahue wrote:

>Good morning everyone,

>    What you mean is that there would not be a Braille and talking book Web 
>site still available despite the government shutdown. The folks that really 
>shut BARD down is none other than us. Society didn't tell us to be overly 
>dependent on the government to provide this and other services. Folks we're 
>doing that to ourselves and need to stop being overly dependent on others to 
>fund and operate these programs for us. Thank God for the likes of Jim 
>Fructerman, Ray Kurzweil, and others. This should be an opportunity  for us 
>to rediscover what Bookshare.org and Blio have to offer. It should also 
>cause us to put our thinking caps on and find ways to protect BARD and other 
>services we've come to depend on from government shutdowns. A yearly 
>subscription to Bookshare.org is only $50.00. Forgo some of the booz and the 
>smokes and subscribe so the books can keep coming to you. These 
>subscriptions are far superior to BARD. We have found lots of books on 
>Bookshare.org not available through BARD. It's $50.00 well-spent if you 
>asked us. Since we're both Bookshare.org members the yearly charge is 
>$100.00 and we find the money to keep our subscriptions active. Furthermore 
>I believe Bookshare.org still has the free student membership. Check it out.

>    If we keep going down the path of stinking thinking the next time 
>there's another federal shutdown we'll have no one but ourselves to blame 
>because we failed to protect BARD and other services we rely on from such 
>mayhem.

>Peter Donahue


>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net>
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:09 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


>You would not have a braille / audio book collection if not for the federal
>government.

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
>list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:48 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


>: Good evening,
>:
>:    Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
>: governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
>:
>: Peter Donahue
>:
>: ----- Original Message ----- 
>: From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
>: To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
>: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>:
>:
>: I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
>: the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
>: not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
>: 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
>: the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
>: and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
>: servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
>: national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
>: blue, they're all a little cray cray.
>:
>: Joe
>:
>: -----Original Message-----
>: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
>: To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>:
>: Good evening everyone,
>:
>:    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
>: shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars
>during
>: this time so we need not be without books to read.
>:
>: Peter Donahue
>:
>:
>: ----- Original Message -----
>: From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
>: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>:
>:
>: That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together.
>Ask
>:
>: your representative. :-)
>:
>: Sent from my iPhone
>:
>: > On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams"
><justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>:
>: > wrote:
>: >
>: > Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>: >
>: > _______________________________________________
>: > nabs-l mailing list
>: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>: > nabs-l:
>: >
>:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
>: om
>:
>: _______________________________________________
>: nabs-l mailing list
>: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>: nabs-l:
>:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>:
>:
>: _______________________________________________
>: nabs-l mailing list
>: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>: nabs-l:
>: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>:
>:
>: _______________________________________________
>: nabs-l mailing list
>: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>: nabs-l:
>:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>:
>:
>: _______________________________________________
>: nabs-l mailing list
>: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com 


>_______________________________________________
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>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Wed Oct  2 16:09:03 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 10:09:03 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <004d01cebf7d$62a39cf0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>
	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com>
	<004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com>
	<002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<479E3E66E8FA44ACB5C1F746263FCB9B@JAWS>
	<004d01cebf7d$62a39cf0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <8B69FD21-3D39-4062-9B1B-8E9BA060F513@gmail.com>

Peter,
While I am generally fiscally conservative i'm with Tyler on this one. I would just like to make two points because Tyler I would just like to make two points because Tyler has already offered a very excellent rebuttal. Comparing this list to the Supreme Court you are definitely authoring the dissenting opinion, justice Littlefield has written a quite excellent majority opinion, so here's my opinion concurring with the majority.
First of all it seems reasonable to compare the national Library service to the thousands of public libraries operated by local governments all around the country. Logistically, due to reasons like the scarcity of braille and relatively small numbers of blind people, it's necessary for our public library to be operated by the federal, rather than state governments. I'm curious if you are opposed to the idea of public libraries in general or is it merely the idea of blind people accessing public libraries that you find repugnant? If your problem is with government – subsidized libraries and if you think blind people ought to be granted equal access to the same resources available to sighted people, The only logical conclusion seems to be that your problem is with public libraries in general, and not our specific public library in particular.
Also,touting Book share as a successful private program free of government intervention scenes, at the very least, ironic. It's worth remembering that free access to book share by students, not to mention the deeply discounted rates offered to the rest of the blind community, are only available because of grants and other financial assistance from the government. So, contrary to your assertions, we are depending on government money whether we use barred or bookshare.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2013, at 8:40 AM, "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> Good morning everyone,
> 
>    What you mean is that there would not be a Braille and talking book Web 
> site still available despite the government shutdown. The folks that really 
> shut BARD down is none other than us. Society didn't tell us to be overly 
> dependent on the government to provide this and other services. Folks we're 
> doing that to ourselves and need to stop being overly dependent on others to 
> fund and operate these programs for us. Thank God for the likes of Jim 
> Fructerman, Ray Kurzweil, and others. This should be an opportunity  for us 
> to rediscover what Bookshare.org and Blio have to offer. It should also 
> cause us to put our thinking caps on and find ways to protect BARD and other 
> services we've come to depend on from government shutdowns. A yearly 
> subscription to Bookshare.org is only $50.00. Forgo some of the booz and the 
> smokes and subscribe so the books can keep coming to you. These 
> subscriptions are far superior to BARD. We have found lots of books on 
> Bookshare.org not available through BARD. It's $50.00 well-spent if you 
> asked us. Since we're both Bookshare.org members the yearly charge is 
> $100.00 and we find the money to keep our subscriptions active. Furthermore 
> I believe Bookshare.org still has the free student membership. Check it out.
> 
>    If we keep going down the path of stinking thinking the next time 
> there's another federal shutdown we'll have no one but ourselves to blame 
> because we failed to protect BARD and other services we rely on from such 
> mayhem.
> 
> Peter Donahue
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> 
> 
> You would not have a braille / audio book collection if not for the federal
> government.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> 
> 
> : Good evening,
> :
> :    Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
> : governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
> :
> : Peter Donahue
> :
> : ----- Original Message ----- 
> : From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> : To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> : <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> : Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> :
> :
> : I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
> : the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
> : not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
> : 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
> : the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
> : and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
> : servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
> : national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
> : blue, they're all a little cray cray.
> :
> : Joe
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> : Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> :
> : Good evening everyone,
> :
> :    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
> : shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars
> during
> : this time so we need not be without books to read.
> :
> : Peter Donahue
> :
> :
> : ----- Original Message -----
> : From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> : To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> : <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> : Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
> :
> :
> : That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together.
> Ask
> :
> : your representative. :-)
> :
> : Sent from my iPhone
> :
> : > On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams"
> <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> :
> : > wrote:
> : >
> : > Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
> : >
> : > _______________________________________________
> : > nabs-l mailing list
> : > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : > nabs-l:
> : >
> :
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
> : om
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> :
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> :
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/naybs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  2 16:10:33 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 12:10:33 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <004d01cebf7d$62a39cf0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com><002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><479E3E66E8FA44ACB5C1F746263FCB9B@JAWS>
	<004d01cebf7d$62a39cf0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <F82706E610B34415A69CF2AA4BE5DF31@OwnerPC>

Peter,
I just want to throw up at your lack of appreciation for Bard. If you rather 
use bookshare that is fine.
But,  Do, NOT,  wish it would go away because of your views government is 
too big.
As Tyler said, its impractical for some families to pay for books and it is 
not practical to operate the library and fund the readers needed to read the 
books.
NLS has served like a free library for me. Yes, now the collection at county 
public libraries is bigger. But when I was a kid, the collection was small. 
I have certainly taken advantage of audio books from public libraries too, 
when available.
I was able to read novels because of NLS. I was able to read favorite kids 
stuff like Box car children and Baby sitters club because of NLS.
I was able to read the book The Prince because of NLS; it was not available 
via RFB btw.
I have also attended seminars at my network NLS library. Oh, they also offer 
support groups for those losing vision and refer people to other resources 
to buy low vision items. Our network library which is a branch of our county 
public library does many great things, not just distribute talking books.
All network libraries would close if we did not have NLS.



We have had NLS since the 1930s or 40s.
I'd like it to stay! I do want some government services to stay free like 
our roads and yes libraries.

If you don't want to depend on a service, then do NOT depend on it. But I'll 
not  let you take that away from the millions of blind and physically 
handicapped people who need it. NFB would never stand for this.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Peter Donahue
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 10:40 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site

Good morning everyone,

    What you mean is that there would not be a Braille and talking book Web
site still available despite the government shutdown. The folks that really
shut BARD down is none other than us. Society didn't tell us to be overly
dependent on the government to provide this and other services. Folks we're
doing that to ourselves and need to stop being overly dependent on others to
fund and operate these programs for us. Thank God for the likes of Jim
Fructerman, Ray Kurzweil, and others. This should be an opportunity  for us
to rediscover what Bookshare.org and Blio have to offer. It should also
cause us to put our thinking caps on and find ways to protect BARD and other
services we've come to depend on from government shutdowns. A yearly
subscription to Bookshare.org is only $50.00. Forgo some of the booz and the
smokes and subscribe so the books can keep coming to you. These
subscriptions are far superior to BARD. We have found lots of books on
Bookshare.org not available through BARD. It's $50.00 well-spent if you
asked us. Since we're both Bookshare.org members the yearly charge is
$100.00 and we find the money to keep our subscriptions active. Furthermore
I believe Bookshare.org still has the free student membership. Check it out.

    If we keep going down the path of stinking thinking the next time
there's another federal shutdown we'll have no one but ourselves to blame
because we failed to protect BARD and other services we rely on from such
mayhem.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


You would not have a braille / audio book collection if not for the federal
government.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


: Good evening,
:
:    Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
: governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
:
: Peter Donahue
:
: ----- Original Message ----- 
: From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
: To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
:
: I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
: the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
: not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
: 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
: the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
: and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
: servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
: national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
: blue, they're all a little cray cray.
:
: Joe
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
: To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
: Good evening everyone,
:
:    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
: shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars
during
: this time so we need not be without books to read.
:
: Peter Donahue
:
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
:
: That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together.
Ask
:
: your representative. :-)
:
: Sent from my iPhone
:
: > On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams"
<justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
:
: > wrote:
: >
: > Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: >
:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
: om
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  2 16:14:01 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 12:14:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <auto-000013944007@mailback3.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000013944007@mailback3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <A7F86C1E8A2C41C09E7A47059C18F73D@OwnerPC>

Steve,
Thanks. Its our free library. Lets keep it that way. Its been a part of my 
life just as much as peanut butter has.
Besides the shutdown an inconvenience compaired to the impact on our 
economy.

It will reopen in the next month and we will have it again.

I agree there are other sources of books and I think we should pay for books 
in accessible format when we can just as sighted people do.
But non disabled people have a free library and we should have this option 
too.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Steve Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:59 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site

Peter,

I agree with you in part and I disagree in part.  All of this talk about 
BARD as a result of the government shutdown seems very
much overblown to me.  Anyone who has been listening to the news should have 
downloaded a few extra books. My inability to
download a BARD book seems pretty minor compared to the numerous 
hard-working government employees who are suddenly left without
an income, people who need to apply for a service who can't, and people who 
have made plans that might include visiting government
operated facilities who suddenly find them closed.  I would assume that we 
probably have blind vendors impacted as well, and
unlike what will likely be the case for federal employees, the revenue lost 
by blind vendors, and other commercial operations
thhat depend upon the traffic of federal employees, will not be regained 
when the shutdown ends.

Having said that, times are changing.  We do need to consider that there are 
other sources for books besides NLS.  If we are
lucky, we will need to get used to being able to pay for a book to get it 
right away as a commonplace in our lives.  Still, NLS
does still serve as our public library, and the concept of a population 
having free access to literature from public libraries
goes all the way back to Ben Franklin and is not a new concept.  Therefore, 
I don't think we should be feeling guilty for using
BARD, but there are really more important impacts of the government 
shutdown.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 09:40:47 -0500, Peter Donahue wrote:

>Good morning everyone,

>    What you mean is that there would not be a Braille and talking book Web
>site still available despite the government shutdown. The folks that really
>shut BARD down is none other than us. Society didn't tell us to be overly
>dependent on the government to provide this and other services. Folks we're
>doing that to ourselves and need to stop being overly dependent on others 
>to
>fund and operate these programs for us. Thank God for the likes of Jim
>Fructerman, Ray Kurzweil, and others. This should be an opportunity  for us
>to rediscover what Bookshare.org and Blio have to offer. It should also
>cause us to put our thinking caps on and find ways to protect BARD and 
>other
>services we've come to depend on from government shutdowns. A yearly
>subscription to Bookshare.org is only $50.00. Forgo some of the booz and 
>the
>smokes and subscribe so the books can keep coming to you. These
>subscriptions are far superior to BARD. We have found lots of books on
>Bookshare.org not available through BARD. It's $50.00 well-spent if you
>asked us. Since we're both Bookshare.org members the yearly charge is
>$100.00 and we find the money to keep our subscriptions active. Furthermore
>I believe Bookshare.org still has the free student membership. Check it 
>out.

>    If we keep going down the path of stinking thinking the next time
>there's another federal shutdown we'll have no one but ourselves to blame
>because we failed to protect BARD and other services we rely on from such
>mayhem.

>Peter Donahue


>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net>
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:09 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


>You would not have a braille / audio book collection if not for the federal
>government.

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
>list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:48 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


>: Good evening,
>:
>:    Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
>: governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
>:
>: Peter Donahue
>:
>: ----- Original Message ----- 
>: From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
>: To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
>: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>:
>:
>: I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm 
>of
>: the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
>: not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for 
>the
>: 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
>: the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
>: and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
>: servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
>: national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
>: blue, they're all a little cray cray.
>:
>: Joe
>:
>: -----Original Message-----
>: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter 
>Donahue
>: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
>: To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>:
>: Good evening everyone,
>:
>:    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
>: shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars
>during
>: this time so we need not be without books to read.
>:
>: Peter Donahue
>:
>:
>: ----- Original Message -----
>: From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
>: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
>:
>:
>: That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together.
>Ask
>:
>: your representative. :-)
>:
>: Sent from my iPhone
>:
>: > On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams"
><justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>:
>: > wrote:
>: >
>: > Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
>: >
>: > _______________________________________________
>: > nabs-l mailing list
>: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>: > nabs-l:
>: >
>:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
>: om
>:
>: _______________________________________________
>: nabs-l mailing list
>: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>: nabs-l:
>:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>:
>:
>: _______________________________________________
>: nabs-l mailing list
>: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>: nabs-l:
>: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>:
>:
>: _______________________________________________
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>: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>:
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>:
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>: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  2 18:04:30 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 14:04:30 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
In-Reply-To: <BLU402-EAS341B0829CD496AEE8AA6F25F5150@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS1282A35FCCEAFD7CB7C52CF5140@phx.gbl>
	<684701DF5B504EC99BD2D54D0EB7B2F3@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FYFBhVGxOC7uMCE1URS0q2sMrGk2cYpgJ=pizZM3U=geQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<005101cebedd$23f287f0$6bd797d0$@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS341B0829CD496AEE8AA6F25F5150@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fa8uyBwG1h5CGtBVytjKXcj9vQ3UwWqATpcdLrtuL3FyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Helga, please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I've gotten out
of the situation:

Helga mentioned that she prints things at home, does this mean that
you do not have a dorm room?  Ashley brought up a great point, and I
keep a printer in my dorm/apartment each year to make printing easy,
but if you don't have a dorm room this will obviously not work.

My other question is, by lab did you mean a student-monitored lab or
the ds lab?  I ask because if it is the first it might just mean you
quickly talking to the lab supervisor, which is usually someone in IT
or a professor.  I'm not saying you need to say anything more than the
basics as was implied, but it is true that people don't understand
these technologies we use, so just saying you're visually impaired and
you need to be able to print from your NoteTaker, which is the
equivalent of a computer, should suffice.  If they refuse, you have
grounds to go to your DS office to file a complaint.

Printers should not be hard to come by on a college campus, and this
really isn't a big issue.  Hope you find a printer on campus.

P.S. Have you checked in the library?  Some campuses have labs there
with USB printers that everyone is allowed to use with personal
laptops, so that might work as well.  It might be a resource worth
looking into.  ;

On 10/1/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I have many issues
> with my Dissability Adviser at my college. I actually think you're right
> Justin, because my DSS office don't really understand how many accessivle
> machines I need in order to be successful in college! And it's very hard to
> explain it to them. Thanks for listening to me. God bless!!     m
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 1, 2013, at 3:34 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have found that explaining our accessible technology is a waisted
>> effort.
>> Just get the tell them the bear necessities.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>> Shelton
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 3:02 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
>>
>> Helga,
>>
>> I would really just ask the DS office personelle if you can use a printer
>> somewhere.  Often the people in the student computer labs don't know what
>> BrailleNotes are and therefore don't understand that just printing off of
>> them is not a big deal.  You can also just ask ther person what kind of
>> printer is there and check to see if it is on the list of accessible
>> printers I posted earlier.
>>
>> As Ryan said, the Ink Jets and some Desk Jets are made for business
>> people
>> who travel and might not have access to printers without them, but I'd be
>> weary of carrying it around all day in a backpack for it to get bumped or
>> broken in some way.  I would really try to find a printer that will hook
>> up
>> to your BrailleNote via USB, Bluetooth, or Infrared connection so you
>> don't
>> have to deal with carrying a printer around.
>>
>>> On 9/30/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Helga,
>>>
>>> I have a version of the braille note below yours. But its mostly the
>>> same for printing.
>>> Yes, there are several compatable printers. Go online to find out the
>>> compatability.
>>> Purchase from a typical store like Best Buy or office store like
>>> Staples or
>>>
>>> Office Depot.
>>>
>>> I think you could probably print from a school printer in your dss
>>> office.
>>> However, if you need a printer, just put it in your dorm. I'm not sure
>>> what
>>>
>>> you mean by portable.
>>> Most small ink jet printers are sort of portable meaning they are
>>> compact and light enough to transport to your dorm. But don't carry it
>>> all day in your backpack!
>>>
>>> Since I generated all work to turn in from my pc, I printed from it to
>>> the printer in my dorm.
>>> So I had no need to print from the Empower.
>>>
>>> I also think that if the school or a professor has a printer with
>>> infared port, and your braille note has the infared port, then that is
>>> a very easy way to print; it requires no wires.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Helga Schreiber
>>> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 12:10 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex
>>>
>>> Hi all, this is helga. I just wanted to ask you, Do some of you use a
>>> BrailleNote Apex for college classes and assignments? If you do, Does
>>> the BrailleNote Apex has a compatible portable printer that I could
>> purchase?
>>> And if it does, do you know which kind of printer, and where could I buy
>> it?
>>>
>>> I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions.
>>> Thanks so
>>>
>>> much and God bless!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart
>>> hlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>> 40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From weirdwriter9891 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  2 20:51:14 2013
From: weirdwriter9891 at gmail.com (The weird writer)
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:51:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dr. Abraham Nemeth, inventor of the Braile math code,
	dies at 94
In-Reply-To: <mailman.20.1380715202.18049.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.20.1380715202.18049.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <524C8742.8000301@gmail.com>

Dr. Abraham Nemeth, inventor of the Braile math code, dies at 94

Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/article/359503#ixzz2gbERDuaZ


From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  2 23:15:53 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 19:15:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard web site
In-Reply-To: <004d01cebf7d$62a39cf0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <007e01cebef7$f2247c40$d66d74c0$@gmail.com>	<65ED7B54-44D1-4C78-B108-8C84B35AB17B@gmail.com><004b01cebefe$0cb0d850$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><006201cebf04$b398e800$1acab800$@gmail.com><002b01cebf11$7e333f00$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>	<479E3E66E8FA44ACB5C1F746263FCB9B@JAWS>
	<004d01cebf7d$62a39cf0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <007801cebfc5$57cbce40$07636ac0$@gmail.com>

Peter,

There are a lot of government programs for which I would say your points are
all spot on. However, I'm afraid you will probably be in the minority
regarding NLS. I don't think you're wrong to point out that people have to
prioritize their spending, but as long as we have difficult companies like
Amazon and Sony striving to limit our access to literature by restricting
the devices that can speak, we need an equivalent to the library down the
street. Can NLS take steps to save money? Definitely. We don't need as many
state or regional libraries as we currently have, not with the proliferation
of electronic Braille and the BARD site for audio.

Bookshare is a great service, but there is a difference between text and
audio books. I would rather have a human reading to me over synthetic speech
any day. Actually I was disappointed with the new Victor Stream's jerky
speech engines when reading documents.

As far as alternatives, I would encourage people to look into Overdrive,
which draws on ebook and audio collections from local public libraries.
We're talking contemporary titles in addition to the classics. You check
them out for a couple weeks before the book is no longer accessible.

Tyler,

Great post. My only correction would be that the free shipping is
independent of NLS being a government agency.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 10:41 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site

Good morning everyone,

    What you mean is that there would not be a Braille and talking book Web
site still available despite the government shutdown. The folks that really
shut BARD down is none other than us. Society didn't tell us to be overly
dependent on the government to provide this and other services. Folks we're
doing that to ourselves and need to stop being overly dependent on others to
fund and operate these programs for us. Thank God for the likes of Jim
Fructerman, Ray Kurzweil, and others. This should be an opportunity  for us
to rediscover what Bookshare.org and Blio have to offer. It should also
cause us to put our thinking caps on and find ways to protect BARD and other
services we've come to depend on from government shutdowns. A yearly
subscription to Bookshare.org is only $50.00. Forgo some of the booz and the
smokes and subscribe so the books can keep coming to you. These
subscriptions are far superior to BARD. We have found lots of books on
Bookshare.org not available through BARD. It's $50.00 well-spent if you
asked us. Since we're both Bookshare.org members the yearly charge is
$100.00 and we find the money to keep our subscriptions active. Furthermore
I believe Bookshare.org still has the free student membership. Check it out.

    If we keep going down the path of stinking thinking the next time
there's another federal shutdown we'll have no one but ourselves to blame
because we failed to protect BARD and other services we rely on from such
mayhem.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


You would not have a braille / audio book collection if not for the federal
government.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site


: Good evening,
:
:    Paying a subscription to protect our accessible book collections from
: governmental boondoggling is okay in my book. Bring it on!
:
: Peter Donahue
:
: ----- Original Message ----- 
: From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
: To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:16 PM
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
:
: I'm all for making government much smaller, but privatizing the NLS arm of
: the LOC is probably not the best case scenario. People would have to pay,
: not an issue for gainfully employed people but certainly a problem for the
: 70% unemployed folks already on a low income. Me, I'm really not sure why
: the BARD site is down. Skeleton crews consist of at least a few IT staff,
: and it seems odd there is not a single person who can keep an eye on the
: servers. Then again, the government is dumb enough to try to rope off
: national monuments here in DC that can easily be accessed outside. Red,
: blue, they're all a little cray cray.
:
: Joe
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:29 PM
: To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
: Good evening everyone,
:
:    Perhaps it's time to privatize the NLS making it immune to government
: shutdowns in the future. Bookshare.org and BLIO are our shining stars
during
: this time so we need not be without books to read.
:
: Peter Donahue
:
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:48 PM
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bard web site
:
:
: That entirely depends on when Congress decides to get it's act together.
Ask
:
: your representative. :-)
:
: Sent from my iPhone
:
: > On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "justin williams"
<justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
:
: > wrote:
: >
: > Do we know when the bard site will be up again?
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: >
:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c
: om
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
:
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:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
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:
:
: _______________________________________________
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:
:
: _______________________________________________
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: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From alpineimagination at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 04:21:33 2013
From: alpineimagination at gmail.com (Vejas)
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 21:21:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
Message-ID: <524cf0e2.01f6420a.0f2b.6f21@mx.google.com>


Hi,
I am using a web-site for Spanish called vhl central on my 
i-phone.  Sometimes when I try to click on a pop-up button, 
Voice-Over will automatically zoom in on a very small part of 
text and not show everything on the page.  Is there a way to get 
it to stop zooming in?
Vejas


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 11:30:52 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 06:30:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
Message-ID: <524d559c.0416ec0a.5411.00bb@mx.google.com>

Vejas, what version of IOS are you using? IOS 7 is notorious for 
having VoiceOver focus issues.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Vejas <alpineimagination at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 21:21:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over


Hi,
I am using a web-site for Spanish called vhl central on my
i-phone.  Sometimes when I try to click on a pop-up button,
Voice-Over will automatically zoom in on a very small part of
text and not show everything on the page.  Is there a way to get
it to stop zooming in?
Vejas

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 12:30:35 2013
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 08:30:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth
Message-ID: <524d6387.44caec0a.3862.1b0c@mx.google.com>

Dear Nabs Members,

I'd like to pay my respects to Doctor Abraham Nemeth who passed 
away yesterday.  I had the pleasure of meeting him a few years 
ago at a conference for braille transcribers that was held in 
Orlando in 2009.  I  used the nemeth code in many of my math 
classes when I was in public school.


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 13:50:59 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 09:50:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth
In-Reply-To: <524d6387.44caec0a.3862.1b0c@mx.google.com>
References: <524d6387.44caec0a.3862.1b0c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2801200333042942231@unknownmsgid>

Thank you for this tribute. He will truly be missed.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2013, at 8:31 AM, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Nabs Members,
>
> I'd like to pay my respects to Doctor Abraham Nemeth who passed away yesterday.  I had the pleasure of meeting him a few years ago at a conference for braille transcribers that was held in Orlando in 2009.  I  used the nemeth code in many of my math classes when I was in public school.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Thu Oct  3 13:56:06 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:56:06 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth
In-Reply-To: <2801200333042942231@unknownmsgid>
References: <524d6387.44caec0a.3862.1b0c@mx.google.com>,
	<2801200333042942231@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <bcd82aa03b8045c7a3388f0e2101f760@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I met him at the national convention in Dallas, in 2010!
He was a nice man!
He allowed me to get several pictures with him, and I still have them!
He'll be missed!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 8:50 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth

Thank you for this tribute. He will truly be missed.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2013, at 8:31 AM, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Nabs Members,
>
> I'd like to pay my respects to Doctor Abraham Nemeth who passed away yesterday.  I had the pleasure of meeting him a few years ago at a conference for braille transcribers that was held in Orlando in 2009.  I  used the nemeth code in many of my math classes when I was in public school.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com

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From alpineimagination at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 14:01:44 2013
From: alpineimagination at gmail.com (Vejas)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 07:01:44 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
Message-ID: <524d78dd.0219450a.602c.ffffe267@mx.google.com>

I do have IOS 7.  Is there a way to get around this problem?
Vejas


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 06:30:52 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over

Vejas, what version of IOS are you using? IOS 7 is notorious for
having VoiceOver focus issues.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Vejas <alpineimagination at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 21:21:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over


Hi,
I am using a web-site for Spanish called vhl central on my
i-phone.  Sometimes when I try to click on a pop-up button,
Voice-Over will automatically zoom in on a very small part of
text and not show everything on the page.  Is there a way to get
it to stop zooming in?
Vejas

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com

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tion%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 14:05:03 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 10:05:03 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
In-Reply-To: <524d78dd.0219450a.602c.ffffe267@mx.google.com>
References: <524d78dd.0219450a.602c.ffffe267@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1E647CD5-9C8F-457C-BEDF-226F752E4B6A@gmail.com>

I'm afraid I don't know how to help you, but I'm going to say the focus issues are really really annoying.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Vejas <alpineimagination at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I do have IOS 7.  Is there a way to get around this problem?
> Vejas
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 06:30:52 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
> 
> Vejas, what version of IOS are you using? IOS 7 is notorious for
> having VoiceOver focus issues.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vejas <alpineimagination at gmail.com
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 21:21:33 -0700
> Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I am using a web-site for Spanish called vhl central on my
> i-phone.  Sometimes when I try to click on a pop-up button,
> Voice-Over will automatically zoom in on a very small part of
> text and not show everything on the page.  Is there a way to get
> it to stop zooming in?
> Vejas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alpineimagina
> tion%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 14:46:45 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 10:46:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth
In-Reply-To: <bcd82aa03b8045c7a3388f0e2101f760@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <524d6387.44caec0a.3862.1b0c@mx.google.com>,
	<2801200333042942231@unknownmsgid>
	<bcd82aa03b8045c7a3388f0e2101f760@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <00ed01cec047$62c4f8d0$284eea70$@gmail.com>

I never got to meet him, but he was indeed a greatman.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 9:56 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth

I met him at the national convention in Dallas, in 2010!
He was a nice man!
He allowed me to get several pictures with him, and I still have them!
He'll be missed!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum
[dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 8:50 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth

Thank you for this tribute. He will truly be missed.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2013, at 8:31 AM, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Nabs Members,
>
> I'd like to pay my respects to Doctor Abraham Nemeth who passed away
yesterday.  I had the pleasure of meeting him a few years ago at a
conference for braille transcribers that was held in Orlando in 2009.  I
used the nemeth code in many of my math classes when I was in public school.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om

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nabs-l:
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.com



From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Thu Oct  3 15:02:32 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 15:02:32 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth
In-Reply-To: <00ed01cec047$62c4f8d0$284eea70$@gmail.com>
References: <524d6387.44caec0a.3862.1b0c@mx.google.com>,
	<2801200333042942231@unknownmsgid>
	<bcd82aa03b8045c7a3388f0e2101f760@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<00ed01cec047$62c4f8d0$284eea70$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <738865d531254634b28308de2fa0dddf@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

A funny story about Dr. Nemeth happened at the 2009 national convention.
My former Braille teacher took his current student to the convention, and they saw Dr. Nemeth.
The boy was so nervous, that he tripped up when talking about Braille, and he said that he "typed," with the slate and stylus, and Dr. Nemeth corrected him, (LOL!)
He was always very personable, and I was actually working to get him to speak to the kids at next year's convention, but sadly, it won't happen!
I'd like to know if there are any speeches that he gave, that have been preserved on audio in the national library!
If so, I'd like for Dr. Maurer to play one of them at the convention, in his honor.
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of justin williams [justin.williams2 at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 9:46 AM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth

I never got to meet him, but he was indeed a greatman.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 9:56 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth

I met him at the national convention in Dallas, in 2010!
He was a nice man!
He allowed me to get several pictures with him, and I still have them!
He'll be missed!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum
[dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 8:50 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Remembering Doctor Abraham Nemeth

Thank you for this tribute. He will truly be missed.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2013, at 8:31 AM, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Nabs Members,
>
> I'd like to pay my respects to Doctor Abraham Nemeth who passed away
yesterday.  I had the pleasure of meeting him a few years ago at a
conference for braille transcribers that was held in Orlando in 2009.  I
used the nemeth code in many of my math classes when I was in public school.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om

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nabs-l:
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nabs-l:
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.com


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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 20:40:53 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 15:40:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
Message-ID: <524dd685.4619ec0a.4ca9.ffffef87@mx.google.com>

I'm afraid not, Vejas. It'sjust a bug IOS 7 has. Hopefully Apple 
will fix it in the next few months.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Vejas <alpineimagination at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 07:01:44 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over

I do have IOS 7.  Is there a way to get around this problem?
Vejas


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 06:30:52 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over

Vejas, what version of IOS are you using? IOS 7 is notorious for
having VoiceOver focus issues.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Vejas <alpineimagination at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 21:21:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over


Hi,
I am using a web-site for Spanish called vhl central on my
i-phone.  Sometimes when I try to click on a pop-up button,
Voice-Over will automatically zoom in on a very small part of
text and not show everything on the page.  Is there a way to get
it to stop zooming in?
Vejas

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alpineimagina
tion%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 00:36:50 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Ashlee g)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 20:36:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
In-Reply-To: <524dd685.4619ec0a.4ca9.ffffef87@mx.google.com>
References: <524dd685.4619ec0a.4ca9.ffffef87@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <76E35E69-89C5-4B01-B2FF-D450195CEA48@gmail.com>

Hi Vegas,
It may be worth going into an Apple Store, if you know where one is close to you. A lot of times they can figure out these weird problems, that we may not be able to figure out right away.x and if you set an appointment, you won't have to wait forever because they will be expecting you. That is what I do, I set an appointment.

AUTISM IS NOT A DISEASE! I AM AN AUTISM ADVOCATE, WRITER, AND SPEAKER. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE, OR WANT ME TO COME SPEAK, CALL ME AT 711,443,682,8862 OR LEAVE ME A MEOR TEXT ME AT 410,417,6676.

> On Oct 3, 2013, at 16:40, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm afraid not, Vejas. It'sjust a bug IOS 7 has. Hopefully Apple will fix it in the next few months.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vejas <alpineimagination at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 07:01:44 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
> 
> I do have IOS 7.  Is there a way to get around this problem?
> Vejas
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 06:30:52 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
> 
> Vejas, what version of IOS are you using? IOS 7 is notorious for
> having VoiceOver focus issues.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vejas <alpineimagination at gmail.com
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 21:21:33 -0700
> Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I am using a web-site for Spanish called vhl central on my
> i-phone.  Sometimes when I try to click on a pop-up button,
> Voice-Over will automatically zoom in on a very small part of
> text and not show everything on the page.  Is there a way to get
> it to stop zooming in?
> Vejas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alpineimagina
> tion%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From isaiahgwilcox at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 01:00:14 2013
From: isaiahgwilcox at gmail.com (Isaiah G. Wilcox)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 21:00:14 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
In-Reply-To: <76E35E69-89C5-4B01-B2FF-D450195CEA48@gmail.com>
References: <524dd685.4619ec0a.4ca9.ffffef87@mx.google.com>
	<76E35E69-89C5-4B01-B2FF-D450195CEA48@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0A1BE1AD-C16E-4F66-85D6-A06A53C3098E@gmail.com>

Vejas,
There is no way to stop Safari from doing this; however, you can change it once it does.  
Go to settings > accessibility > rotor > and check Zoom.  Then go to the webpage and turn rotor to Zoom.  Flick up and down to zoom in and out.  Hope this helps.  
Regards,
Isaiah

On Oct 3, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Ashlee g <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Vegas,
> It may be worth going into an Apple Store, if you know where one is close to you. A lot of times they can figure out these weird problems, that we may not be able to figure out right away.x and if you set an appointment, you won't have to wait forever because they will be expecting you. That is what I do, I set an appointment.
> 
> AUTISM IS NOT A DISEASE! I AM AN AUTISM ADVOCATE, WRITER, AND SPEAKER. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE, OR WANT ME TO COME SPEAK, CALL ME AT 711,443,682,8862 OR LEAVE ME A MEOR TEXT ME AT 410,417,6676.
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2013, at 16:40, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm afraid not, Vejas. It'sjust a bug IOS 7 has. Hopefully Apple will fix it in the next few months.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Vejas <alpineimagination at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 07:01:44 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
>> 
>> I do have IOS 7.  Is there a way to get around this problem?
>> Vejas
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 06:30:52 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
>> 
>> Vejas, what version of IOS are you using? IOS 7 is notorious for
>> having VoiceOver focus issues.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Vejas <alpineimagination at gmail.com
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 21:21:33 -0700
>> Subject: [nabs-l] a problem with voice over
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> I am using a web-site for Spanish called vhl central on my
>> i-phone.  Sometimes when I try to click on a pop-up button,
>> Voice-Over will automatically zoom in on a very small part of
>> text and not show everything on the page.  Is there a way to get
>> it to stop zooming in?
>> Vejas
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alpineimagina
>> tion%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiahgwilcox%40gmail.com



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 01:08:18 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 18:08:18 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Access Project: Share your college reading access
	experiences
Message-ID: <CACUFQdzeTWAXLOfWSeA80-YJD0GVaSmEec8_jDjdP5LWLsZy=Q@mail.gmail.com>

The following is a message from Haben Girma, a lawyer for Disability
Rights Advocates about a project you can help with.

I want to let students know about a Reading Access Project that
Disability Rights Advocates (“DRA”) has recently started to help
students with print disabilities – such as vision, physical,
developmental, or learning disabilities – get access to print
materials, such as textbooks, course readers, and library research
materials.

DRA has started the Reading Access Project in light of a recent
settlement agreement with UC Berkeley regarding access to print
materials. This settlement with UC Berkeley will significantly improve
information access for students with print disabilities by putting in
place a range of new policies and procedures to ensure that students
have access to all of the written materials they need to read in order
to be successful in a university setting.

Because we know that students with print disabilities are struggling
nationwide to get basic access to course and library materials, we are
interested in talking with students about barriers they have
experienced at institutions of higher education. By listening to the
stories of students, we hope to help bring colleges and universities
into compliance with disability rights laws that govern access to
print materials.

Please share our message with students and invite them to share their
stories with us. My contact information is included below. Information
we receive will be kept confidential. If you have any questions about
DRA or the Reading Access Project, please don’t hesitate to ask.

Thank you very much, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.




Sincerely,



Haben Girma
Skadden Fellowship Attorney
Disability Rights Advocates
2001 Center Street, Fourth Floor
Berkeley, California 94704-1204
 www.dralegal.org


hgirma at dralegal.org
510 665 8644 ext. 156 (Tel)
510 665 8716 (TTY)
510 665 8511 (Fax)



-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Wed Oct  2 17:22:51 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 10:22:51 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] French class
Message-ID: <524C566B.3000903@gmail.com>

Hello,
I am in a french class where the teacher doesn't believe in translating 
anything
It is beginning french and half of her class is her drawing pictures and 
words on the board.
She says the word in french, draws the picture and erases it.
To say I am lost is to put it mildly. I speak a little Italian, so can 
get some things because they are the same in Italian or really near. But 
she does maybe a hundred words a day and goes way too fast for me to 
write down all the words and put them through a translater or ask her 
after class.
She talked for 20 minutes and I had no idea she was talking about time 
until she explained in English that you have to use the 24 hour system 
in France for official time.
Does anyone know how I can make this type of class work? I really would 
like to take at least one language class in a class room. So far 
everything has been on my own.
Thank you,

-- 
Brandon Keith Biggs



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 05:26:32 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 01:26:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] French class
In-Reply-To: <524C566B.3000903@gmail.com>
References: <524C566B.3000903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZzAATLE7SGC4ByJB_R0Mc3PBrxVQsrbzVVCYts3_=GCg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Although I did not end up taking the class due to scheduling issues, I
almost had to deal with this in AP Spanish.  Here is what my teacher
and I came up with.

A lot of the classes were conducted entirely in Spanish, and students
were expected to use Spanish when talking to the teacher even outside
of the class period whenever possible.

To learn new words, it wasn' so much of an issue because the teacher
would always review them with the English translations at the
beginning of each unit.  This was so everyone could see the word in
writing and hear it pronounced correctly.  (She would often spell the
word for me so I could take notes).  In AP Spanish a lot of the spoken
Spanish was to address fluency with sentence structure and grammar.
For this I would have gone in early to meet with the teacher
independently, or used a study hall to meet with her to go over
translations and make sure I had everything right.

Have you tried asking the professor for office hours, or even an email
with a list of the words and their English translations you could
follow along with while she's drawing the pictures on the board?  I'm
not sure how much dialogue you've had with her on this, but that seems
like the best way to do it.  If she's showing people pictures of
things as a form of visual translation, and you're not a visual
learner, that seems like a very reasonable fix to me.

On 10/2/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I am in a french class where the teacher doesn't believe in translating
> anything
> It is beginning french and half of her class is her drawing pictures and
> words on the board.
> She says the word in french, draws the picture and erases it.
> To say I am lost is to put it mildly. I speak a little Italian, so can
> get some things because they are the same in Italian or really near. But
> she does maybe a hundred words a day and goes way too fast for me to
> write down all the words and put them through a translater or ask her
> after class.
> She talked for 20 minutes and I had no idea she was talking about time
> until she explained in English that you have to use the 24 hour system
> in France for official time.
> Does anyone know how I can make this type of class work? I really would
> like to take at least one language class in a class room. So far
> everything has been on my own.
> Thank you,
>
> --
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 05:33:30 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 01:33:30 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
good time to share a useful link.

My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
great for getting materials on demand.

I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
http://sensusaccess.com/
-- 
Kaiti


From lucysirianni at earthlink.net  Fri Oct  4 05:44:29 2013
From: lucysirianni at earthlink.net (Lucy Sirianni)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 22:44:29 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] French class
Message-ID: <E1VRyCQ-0008M3-9v@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Brandon,

      Have you spoken with the professor? I would imagine that 
she would understand your situation and be able to suggest 
solutions.  Perhaps you could ask that she simply send you a list 
of the words and their translations or that if she's truly 
opposed to translating, she provide tactile representations for 
you of the objects pictured on the board?

Best of luck with the class!

Lucy

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 10:22:51 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] French class

Hello,
I am in a french class where the teacher doesn't believe in 
translating
anything
It is beginning french and half of her class is her drawing 
pictures and
words on the board.
She says the word in french, draws the picture and erases it.
To say I am lost is to put it mildly.  I speak a little Italian, 
so can
get some things because they are the same in Italian or really 
near.  But
she does maybe a hundred words a day and goes way too fast for me 
to
write down all the words and put them through a translater or ask 
her
after class.
She talked for 20 minutes and I had no idea she was talking about 
time
until she explained in English that you have to use the 24 hour 
system
in France for official time.
Does anyone know how I can make this type of class work? I really 
would
like to take at least one language class in a class room.  So far
everything has been on my own.
Thank you,

--
Brandon Keith Biggs


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lucysirianni%
40earthlink.net


From lucysirianni at earthlink.net  Fri Oct  4 05:50:54 2013
From: lucysirianni at earthlink.net (Lucy Sirianni)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 22:50:54 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
Message-ID: <E1VRyId-0008Jo-V3@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Agreed; this service is fantastic! It's freely available to all 
(no university affiliation required) and can be accessed through 
the website Kaiti shared or by emailing the file you'd like to 
convert to  convert at robobraille.org,  with your desired file type 
as the subject line of the email.

Lucy

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 01:33:30 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.

Hi all,

I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would 
be a
good time to share a useful link.

My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented 
a
tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes 
to a
service that will convert them to accessible files and email them 
back
to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives 
you a
last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS 
office
before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your 
copy
of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to 
your
DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, 
it's
great for getting materials on demand.

I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  
I
can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have 
to
actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used 
this
one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
http://sensusaccess.com/
--
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lucysirianni%
40earthlink.net


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  4 05:54:35 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 01:54:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <E1VRyId-0008Jo-V3@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1VRyId-0008Jo-V3@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F18360AF-6DBF-4185-98F3-EF46C921742E@yahoo.com>

What are the file types that you can choose from? I'm guessing this works for scanned documents as well, correct? 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:50 AM, Lucy Sirianni <lucysirianni at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Agreed; this service is fantastic! It's freely available to all (no university affiliation required) and can be accessed through the website Kaiti shared or by emailing the file you'd like to convert to  convert at robobraille.org,  with your desired file type as the subject line of the email.
> 
> Lucy
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 01:33:30 -0400
> Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
> good time to share a useful link.
> 
> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
> tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
> service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
> to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
> last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
> before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
> of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
> steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
> inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
> DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
> great for getting materials on demand.
> 
> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
> can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
> actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
> one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
> http://sensusaccess.com/
> --
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lucysirianni%
> 40earthlink.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 06:53:20 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 07:53:20 +0100
Subject: [nabs-l] French class
In-Reply-To: <E1VRyCQ-0008M3-9v@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1VRyCQ-0008M3-9v@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH68F9r9y02zg+GfRQS2t9eJ1WEH=RM3TfqPMdt4mpsBC5g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Brandon,
Do you know enough French to follow a French explanation of a word you
haven't heard in French? If this professor lets you ask questions in
French, I'm sure you'll be able to get French explanations out of her.

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 10/4/13, Lucy Sirianni <lucysirianni at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Brandon,
>
>       Have you spoken with the professor? I would imagine that
> she would understand your situation and be able to suggest
> solutions.  Perhaps you could ask that she simply send you a list
> of the words and their translations or that if she's truly
> opposed to translating, she provide tactile representations for
> you of the objects pictured on the board?
>
> Best of luck with the class!
>
> Lucy
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 10:22:51 -0700
> Subject: [nabs-l] French class
>
> Hello,
> I am in a french class where the teacher doesn't believe in
> translating
> anything
> It is beginning french and half of her class is her drawing
> pictures and
> words on the board.
> She says the word in french, draws the picture and erases it.
> To say I am lost is to put it mildly.  I speak a little Italian,
> so can
> get some things because they are the same in Italian or really
> near.  But
> she does maybe a hundred words a day and goes way too fast for me
> to
> write down all the words and put them through a translater or ask
> her
> after class.
> She talked for 20 minutes and I had no idea she was talking about
> time
> until she explained in English that you have to use the 24 hour
> system
> in France for official time.
> Does anyone know how I can make this type of class work? I really
> would
> like to take at least one language class in a class room.  So far
> everything has been on my own.
> Thank you,
>
> --
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lucysirianni%
> 40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From leyeshprintse at ymail.com  Fri Oct  4 07:22:31 2013
From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Leye-Shprintse_=C3=96berg?=)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 09:22:31 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] French class
In-Reply-To: <524C566B.3000903@gmail.com>
References: <524C566B.3000903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0125E576-A2D9-4FDD-B377-891A15C26CAB@ymail.com>

BS"D

Brandon,

I would ask your teacher if she had a list of the words she will go through during the lesson. In this situation it would be a big help even if the list was French only I guess. I wish you good luck in your endeavours!

Kind regards,
Leye-Shprintse Öberg

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 10:59:01 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 06:59:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>

Does this require that an account be set up?

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
> good time to share a useful link.
>
> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
> tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
> service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
> to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
> last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
> before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
> of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
> steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
> inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
> DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
> great for getting materials on demand.
>
> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
> can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
> actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
> one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
> http://sensusaccess.com/
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 11:09:44 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 07:09:44 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>

Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the same thing?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Does this require that an account be set up?
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
>> good time to share a useful link.
>> 
>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
>> tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
>> service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
>> to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
>> last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
>> before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
>> of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
>> steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
>> inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
>> DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
>> great for getting materials on demand.
>> 
>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
>> can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
>> actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
>> one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com  Fri Oct  4 13:15:01 2013
From: nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com (nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 09:15:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard
In-Reply-To: <-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <BAY168-DS316F5B88305AD2FD0FD16791100@phx.gbl>

As of yesterday evening bard was back.

Nick
 


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 13:16:07 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 09:16:07 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] bard
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-DS316F5B88305AD2FD0FD16791100@phx.gbl>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
	<BAY168-DS316F5B88305AD2FD0FD16791100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00fd01cec103$e3e12990$aba37cb0$@gmail.com>

Yes yes yes yes yes  Oustanding.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 9:15 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] bard

As of yesterday evening bard was back.

Nick
 

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 13:47:37 2013
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 09:47:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] French class
In-Reply-To: <524C566B.3000903@gmail.com>
References: <524C566B.3000903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJqG9gu5N+R-H+0A5j88T0B3=d2R=PvVgQC_h8M_32zOmFytg@mail.gmail.com>

Brandon,

I think a conversation with your professor would be extremely
beneficial. Perhaps she doesn't understand that you cant follow what
she's doing when she's drawing pictures on the board and rapidly
speaking in French. Another suggestion I have is getting a notetaker
for the class. I'm sure a lot of people oppose the idea of a
notetaker, but I found that when I was taking elementary Italian, it
was really helpful to have someone write down what my professor was
writing on the board. The notes allowed me to learn the spelling and
accent marks of the words.

Minh

On 10/2/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I am in a french class where the teacher doesn't believe in translating
> anything
> It is beginning french and half of her class is her drawing pictures and
> words on the board.
> She says the word in french, draws the picture and erases it.
> To say I am lost is to put it mildly. I speak a little Italian, so can
> get some things because they are the same in Italian or really near. But
> she does maybe a hundred words a day and goes way too fast for me to
> write down all the words and put them through a translater or ask her
> after class.
> She talked for 20 minutes and I had no idea she was talking about time
> until she explained in English that you have to use the 24 hour system
> in France for official time.
> Does anyone know how I can make this type of class work? I really would
> like to take at least one language class in a class room. So far
> everything has been on my own.
> Thank you,
>
> --
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>


-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence


From dburke at cocenter.org  Fri Oct  4 14:43:58 2013
From: dburke at cocenter.org (Dan Burke)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 14:43:58 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
	<77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home page that emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for higher education, and without the language choices on the RoboBraille site.

Dan


Dan Burke
Academic and Youth Services
Colorado Center for the Blind
Take charge with confidence and self-reliance

www.cocenter.org
facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
@CoCenter4Blind
www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg

2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
Littleton, CO  80120
303-778-1130 ext. 213
Fax:  303-778-1598



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.

Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the same thing?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Does this require that an account be set up?
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
>> good time to share a useful link.
>> 
>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
>> tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
>> service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
>> to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
>> last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
>> before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
>> of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
>> steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
>> inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
>> DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
>> great for getting materials on demand.
>> 
>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
>> can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
>> actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
>> one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org


From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 20:41:46 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 14:41:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects
References: <CAF=_aveddvPsd9P96upbC7v0XypTWgeZB7GERg0dq=K1FbXcPg@mail.gmail.com><550247907850297514@unknownmsgid><CALAYQJBWXFEDpzFM=xY2S5E9k7TbnrKoieOvZ53BkosjvdGwaw@mail.gmail.com><CAF=_aveuE4AgeV7E2gUb2iJnOOrojLH+LNqBqhxp_iJMA-Sy9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBr9QG3oO4apczUstdpxKPuq870HqC+17atEqW0J+yFng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2C0BA66DD6944094B27841E5FBAC5218@HP30910210001>

arielle.

even though I think group projects should be out lawed in college.
I do see your point about group projects.
I like the idea of the professor assigning groups.
that usually helps with the awkwardness for everyone involved.
Have a blessed day.
Best,
Melissa Green  and Pj
"There's a God that loves you, you matter, & you have value & purpose."
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding members for group projects


Yes I understand. Unfortunately that comes with the territory of group
projects, and there's often not much a student can do about it besides
do extra work or complain to the professor about the other group
members' lack of productivity. That is why when I start teaching I am
going to give group assignments but only ungraded ones, and I am going
to randomly assign the groups so there's no awkwardness with trying to
choose groups.

Arielle

On 9/30/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> We just found out there was going to be a group project via blackboard.
> Guess I'll try the guy next to me.
>
> The last programming group project I did many years ago, I had to redo the
> other 3 people's portions in order for us to get an A. So basically I did
> the entire project and they all got  A's. I am not fond of group projects
> in school. I bust my ass for A's and dont' want someone else having any
> input on my grade.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Arielle Silverman <
> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Suzanne,
>>
>> If you know when the group project will be assigned, maybe try asking
>> the person sitting to your right before class if they want to pair up
>> with you. When I've asked people I don't know to be in a group, they
>> never turned me down, at least not in college (happened in high school
>> though). If the group assignment is a surprise, then you could just
>> try walking around and asking people you come across if you can join
>> them until you either find a group or until most people are paired up
>> and you find the odd one out or the pair that lets you be the third
>> group member. My guess is that at least some of the other students
>> don't have any friends in the class either.
>>
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 9/30/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Suzanne,
>> >
>> > On the first day of school I usually send an email to my teachers
>> > asking them to send me the rosters for the classes I am in. Once they
>> > have done this, I can read and refer back to a list of all the
>> > students in my class. This allows me to have a list of names from
>> > which to pick group members for these kinds of projects, as well as to
>> > simply know who is in my class. Keep in mind that I am in high school,
>> > but you should be able to do this also with your college professor.
>> >
>> > Once I have a roster, I usually see if I know any of the kids in my
>> > class. When we do group projects, I try to get partnered with students
>> > I know so we can easily work together. However, if I do not know
>> > anyone in the class or if the people I know already have partners, I
>> > will just pick a random name from the class roster and go from there.
>> > If it's a big class, I will sometimes ask the teacher or another
>> > student if there is anyone who still has not joined a group or who
>> > needs a partner. Once in a group, if I do not know the student(s) I am
>> > working with, I will usually ask my group members to describe or read
>> > material if this is necessary. Once the students get to know me, I
>> > find that they will do this naturally without my asking. This is
>> > especially important for group projects in science or math related
>> > classes. I hope you will be able to use one or more of the above
>> > suggestions in your group project. Best of luck.
>> >
>> > Hope this helps,
>> >
>> > Chris Nusbaum
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Sep 30, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I am forced to do a group project in my programming languages class.
>> >>
>> >> what methods do you prefer to find group members? The groups are 2-3
>> >> people.
>> >>
>> >> I do not know anybody in the class. I do not know if I have had any of
>> >> these students in previous classes or if they are in any of my current
>> >> classes.
>> >>
>> >> I sit in the front in the middle. There is an wide center aisle to my
>> >> left.
>> >> One person to my right and no body behind me for 3 rows. I sit at the
>> >> larger desk meant for wheelchairs so I can use my laptop and cctv. The
>> >> other seats are the kind with the little desk that flips up from
>> >> beside
>> >> you
>> >> that isn't even big enough for a sheet of paper. Anyway I haven't
>> >> spoken
>> >> to
>> >> anyone in class. No one really talk before class aside form a couple
>> that
>> >> obviously know each other outside of the class.
>> >>
>> >> I can be very social for example where I did my internship because we
>> >> were
>> >> all introduced to each other and I worked on small projects with a
>> couple
>> >> of people at a time.
>> >>
>> >> I am not good at just taking to someone in a classroom for no reason.
>> >> I
>> >> also feel I don't really fit in since i am 49 not 18-20.
>> >>
>> >> I only want to work with those who also want A's.
>> >>
>> >> Suzanne
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 20:42:04 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 14:42:04 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
	<77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>
	<8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>

I've been using RoboBraille for the past two years or so, after Vejas
on this list told me about it. It's really amazing. I've stopped using
Kurzweil because RoboBraille is more accurate, and free. Hoping this
free service will help cut down on students' reliance on expensive OCR
technology (which IMHO doesn't do as good of a job).

Arielle

On 10/4/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
> Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home page that
> emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for higher education, and
> without the language choices on the RoboBraille site.
>
> Dan
>
>
> Dan Burke
> Academic and Youth Services
> Colorado Center for the Blind
> Take charge with confidence and self-reliance
>
> www.cocenter.org
> facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
> @CoCenter4Blind
> www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg
>
> 2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
> Littleton, CO  80120
> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
> Fax:  303-778-1598
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>
> Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the same
> thing?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Does this require that an account be set up?
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
>>> good time to share a useful link.
>>>
>>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
>>> tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
>>> service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
>>> to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
>>> last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
>>> before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
>>> of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
>>> steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
>>> inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
>>> DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
>>> great for getting materials on demand.
>>>
>>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
>>> can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
>>> actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
>>> one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
>>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From jty727 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 20:49:06 2013
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:49:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Apps for Android Phones
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s6wpSZHVL6Ufkgk1NNBqweMf_8GW4RTX3TUH2-gCKLBZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey All!

Hope you are doing well!  I was wondering if any of the Android users
could provide their useful Android apps.  I recently upgraded to an
android phone, but wanted to know if any had any good apps for the
Blind/Visually Impaired.  I'm curious if there is any out there that
deal with scanning documents so one could read documents with their
phone?

Thanks as always for your help!

Justin


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 21:16:39 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 17:16:39 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] BARD is Back
Message-ID: <8769651401707692653@unknownmsgid>

All,

It appears that the library of Congress has reopened most of it's
websites, including all NLS pages. I received a note today from the
director of our state library here in Maryland indicating that Bard
and all other NLS websites are back up and running. If anyone still
has problems accessing Bard, please relay that information to the list
so other Bard users will know what is going on.

Thanks,

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone


From icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us  Fri Oct  4 21:51:13 2013
From: icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us (Greg Wocher)
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2013 17:51:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Apps for Android Phones
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s6wpSZHVL6Ufkgk1NNBqweMf_8GW4RTX3TUH2-gCKLBZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s6wpSZHVL6Ufkgk1NNBqweMf_8GW4RTX3TUH2-gCKLBZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <524F3851.5020102@gtwebdesign.us>

Hello,
Check out this website:
http://accessibleandroid.wordpress.com/
It has a bunch of apps listed.

Greg Wocher

Follow me on Twitter @GWocher

On 10/4/2013 4:49 PM, Justin Young wrote:
> Hey All!
>
> Hope you are doing well!  I was wondering if any of the Android users
> could provide their useful Android apps.  I recently upgraded to an
> android phone, but wanted to know if any had any good apps for the
> Blind/Visually Impaired.  I'm curious if there is any out there that
> deal with scanning documents so one could read documents with their
> phone?
>
> Thanks as always for your help!
>
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%40gtwebdesign.us
>



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 02:47:40 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 22:47:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Apps for Android Phones
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s6wpSZHVL6Ufkgk1NNBqweMf_8GW4RTX3TUH2-gCKLBZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s6wpSZHVL6Ufkgk1NNBqweMf_8GW4RTX3TUH2-gCKLBZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4334998619205787415@unknownmsgid>

You might also check out the That Android Show podcast from the
SeroTalk Podcast Network (SPN,) which can be found at
thatandroidshow.com. Aside from this, I unfortunately cannot provide
any further help, as I use iOS.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:49 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey All!
>
> Hope you are doing well!  I was wondering if any of the Android users
> could provide their useful Android apps.  I recently upgraded to an
> android phone, but wanted to know if any had any good apps for the
> Blind/Visually Impaired.  I'm curious if there is any out there that
> deal with scanning documents so one could read documents with their
> phone?
>
> Thanks as always for your help!
>
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 02:57:31 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 22:57:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
	<77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>
	<8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>

Yes—RoboBraille is awesome! However, I still see a place for dedicated
OCR software, as RoboBraille can't scan printed text in a hardcopy
format. Even if a print document were scanned with a mainstream
scanner without OCR software, it would scan to either a JPEG or image
PDF file, which I don't think Robobraille can convert.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've been using RoboBraille for the past two years or so, after Vejas
> on this list told me about it. It's really amazing. I've stopped using
> Kurzweil because RoboBraille is more accurate, and free. Hoping this
> free service will help cut down on students' reliance on expensive OCR
> technology (which IMHO doesn't do as good of a job).
>
> Arielle
>
>> On 10/4/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
>> Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home page that
>> emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for higher education, and
>> without the language choices on the RoboBraille site.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> Dan Burke
>> Academic and Youth Services
>> Colorado Center for the Blind
>> Take charge with confidence and self-reliance
>>
>> www.cocenter.org
>> facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
>> @CoCenter4Blind
>> www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg
>>
>> 2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
>> Littleton, CO  80120
>> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
>> Fax:  303-778-1598
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>
>> Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the same
>> thing?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Does this require that an account be set up?
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
>>>> good time to share a useful link.
>>>>
>>>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
>>>> tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
>>>> service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
>>>> to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
>>>> last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
>>>> before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
>>>> of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
>>>> steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
>>>> inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
>>>> DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
>>>> great for getting materials on demand.
>>>>
>>>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
>>>> can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
>>>> actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
>>>> one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
>>>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From jty727 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 03:00:31 2013
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 23:00:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Apps for Android Phones
In-Reply-To: <4334998619205787415@unknownmsgid>
References: <CA+3U9s6wpSZHVL6Ufkgk1NNBqweMf_8GW4RTX3TUH2-gCKLBZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4334998619205787415@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s5Vr2YtfZS4PMremQ8kPPrtO4LbFB9hcgLP0mOyUFnh-A@mail.gmail.com>

thanks for the resources!

On 10/4/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> You might also check out the That Android Show podcast from the
> SeroTalk Podcast Network (SPN,) which can be found at
> thatandroidshow.com. Aside from this, I unfortunately cannot provide
> any further help, as I use iOS.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:49 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey All!
>>
>> Hope you are doing well!  I was wondering if any of the Android users
>> could provide their useful Android apps.  I recently upgraded to an
>> android phone, but wanted to know if any had any good apps for the
>> Blind/Visually Impaired.  I'm curious if there is any out there that
>> deal with scanning documents so one could read documents with their
>> phone?
>>
>> Thanks as always for your help!
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 03:02:36 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 23:02:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
	<77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>
	<8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <4EB0E984-886D-4CF7-B32D-0B82F3CA34E1@gmail.com>

Perhaps not, but voice over reads my pdf political science book as pictures, which Robo braille converts just fine. Whether they are pictures or not I don't know, but I know voiceover won't read it and if I have a way to independently get it in a text format without having to rely on help, that's all that matters to me personally.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 10:57 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes—RoboBraille is awesome! However, I still see a place for dedicated
> OCR software, as RoboBraille can't scan printed text in a hardcopy
> format. Even if a print document were scanned with a mainstream
> scanner without OCR software, it would scan to either a JPEG or image
> PDF file, which I don't think Robobraille can convert.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I've been using RoboBraille for the past two years or so, after Vejas
>> on this list told me about it. It's really amazing. I've stopped using
>> Kurzweil because RoboBraille is more accurate, and free. Hoping this
>> free service will help cut down on students' reliance on expensive OCR
>> technology (which IMHO doesn't do as good of a job).
>> 
>> Arielle
>> 
>>> On 10/4/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
>>> Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home page that
>>> emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for higher education, and
>>> without the language choices on the RoboBraille site.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Burke
>>> Academic and Youth Services
>>> Colorado Center for the Blind
>>> Take charge with confidence and self-reliance
>>> 
>>> www.cocenter.org
>>> facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
>>> @CoCenter4Blind
>>> www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg
>>> 
>>> 2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
>>> Littleton, CO  80120
>>> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
>>> Fax:  303-778-1598
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
>>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>> 
>>> Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the same
>>> thing?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Does this require that an account be set up?
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
>>>>> good time to share a useful link.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
>>>>> tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
>>>>> service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
>>>>> to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
>>>>> last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
>>>>> before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
>>>>> of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
>>>>> steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
>>>>> inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
>>>>> DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
>>>>> great for getting materials on demand.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
>>>>> can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
>>>>> actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
>>>>> one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
>>>>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 03:06:12 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 23:06:12 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
	<77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>
	<8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <5B6E43BE-6926-4E39-8639-89268F003E10@gmail.com>

Thanks for clarification Dan. Arielle, I definitely agree.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 10:57 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes—RoboBraille is awesome! However, I still see a place for dedicated
> OCR software, as RoboBraille can't scan printed text in a hardcopy
> format. Even if a print document were scanned with a mainstream
> scanner without OCR software, it would scan to either a JPEG or image
> PDF file, which I don't think Robobraille can convert.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I've been using RoboBraille for the past two years or so, after Vejas
>> on this list told me about it. It's really amazing. I've stopped using
>> Kurzweil because RoboBraille is more accurate, and free. Hoping this
>> free service will help cut down on students' reliance on expensive OCR
>> technology (which IMHO doesn't do as good of a job).
>> 
>> Arielle
>> 
>>> On 10/4/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
>>> Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home page that
>>> emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for higher education, and
>>> without the language choices on the RoboBraille site.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Burke
>>> Academic and Youth Services
>>> Colorado Center for the Blind
>>> Take charge with confidence and self-reliance
>>> 
>>> www.cocenter.org
>>> facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
>>> @CoCenter4Blind
>>> www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg
>>> 
>>> 2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
>>> Littleton, CO  80120
>>> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
>>> Fax:  303-778-1598
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
>>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>> 
>>> Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the same
>>> thing?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Does this require that an account be set up?
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
>>>>> good time to share a useful link.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
>>>>> tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
>>>>> service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
>>>>> to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
>>>>> last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
>>>>> before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
>>>>> of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
>>>>> steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
>>>>> inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
>>>>> DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
>>>>> great for getting materials on demand.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
>>>>> can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
>>>>> actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
>>>>> one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
>>>>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 03:12:52 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 23:12:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
	<77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>
	<8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <8431591E-342B-4454-801C-B3CC75591A03@gmail.com>

Chris, not to detract from your original point, but sometimes there are just times when a scanner just is plainly not available, such as when disability support staff are unavailable, or when the dexterity issues of a student such as myself bring difficulty to the table as far as proficiently operating a scanner. Not To get to off-topic, but you know me well, and you sort of know what I can and can't do, Now to sort of relate to this, there are different scanners out there which may work for some, may not work for others. I, however,  prefer online methods as they're much easier to operate as long as documents are in electronic format, which, happily, is becoming more and more the case nowadays thanks to more and more advances in electronic technology, such as blackboard and other online college teaching methods.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 10:57 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes—RoboBraille is awesome! However, I still see a place for dedicated
> OCR software, as RoboBraille can't scan printed text in a hardcopy
> format. Even if a print document were scanned with a mainstream
> scanner without OCR software, it would scan to either a JPEG or image
> PDF file, which I don't think Robobraille can convert.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I've been using RoboBraille for the past two years or so, after Vejas
>> on this list told me about it. It's really amazing. I've stopped using
>> Kurzweil because RoboBraille is more accurate, and free. Hoping this
>> free service will help cut down on students' reliance on expensive OCR
>> technology (which IMHO doesn't do as good of a job).
>> 
>> Arielle
>> 
>>> On 10/4/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
>>> Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home page that
>>> emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for higher education, and
>>> without the language choices on the RoboBraille site.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Burke
>>> Academic and Youth Services
>>> Colorado Center for the Blind
>>> Take charge with confidence and self-reliance
>>> 
>>> www.cocenter.org
>>> facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
>>> @CoCenter4Blind
>>> www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg
>>> 
>>> 2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
>>> Littleton, CO  80120
>>> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
>>> Fax:  303-778-1598
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
>>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>> 
>>> Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the same
>>> thing?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Does this require that an account be set up?
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
>>>>> good time to share a useful link.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
>>>>> tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
>>>>> service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
>>>>> to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
>>>>> last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
>>>>> before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
>>>>> of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
>>>>> steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
>>>>> inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
>>>>> DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
>>>>> great for getting materials on demand.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
>>>>> can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
>>>>> actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
>>>>> one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
>>>>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Sat Oct  5 03:15:55 2013
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (Humberto)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 20:15:55 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com><-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid><77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com><8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com><CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <4ACE32B7D5AC4072A55ECAAE16845A05@HUMBERTOAVILA>

yes, Robobraille does support PDF, JPG and even TIF picture files. You can 
look at their web site for the conversion types it supports by going to 
http://www.robobraille.org/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "christopher nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.


Yes—RoboBraille is awesome! However, I still see a place for dedicated
OCR software, as RoboBraille can't scan printed text in a hardcopy
format. Even if a print document were scanned with a mainstream
scanner without OCR software, it would scan to either a JPEG or image
PDF file, which I don't think Robobraille can convert.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've been using RoboBraille for the past two years or so, after Vejas
> on this list told me about it. It's really amazing. I've stopped using
> Kurzweil because RoboBraille is more accurate, and free. Hoping this
> free service will help cut down on students' reliance on expensive OCR
> technology (which IMHO doesn't do as good of a job).
>
> Arielle
>
>> On 10/4/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
>> Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home page 
>> that
>> emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for higher education, 
>> and
>> without the language choices on the RoboBraille site.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> Dan Burke
>> Academic and Youth Services
>> Colorado Center for the Blind
>> Take charge with confidence and self-reliance
>>
>> www.cocenter.org
>> facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
>> @CoCenter4Blind
>> www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg
>>
>> 2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
>> Littleton, CO  80120
>> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
>> Fax:  303-778-1598
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>
>> Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the same
>> thing?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum 
>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Does this require that an account be set up?
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be a
>>>> good time to share a useful link.
>>>>
>>>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented a
>>>> tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes to a
>>>> service that will convert them to accessible files and email them back
>>>> to you.  This is great for those times when your professor gives you a
>>>> last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't make it to the DS office
>>>> before it closes but don't want to wait another day to get your copy
>>>> of the homework.  It's called Sensus Access.  There are four easy
>>>> steps to getting your file converted, and emails usually reach my
>>>> inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would highly recommend you talk to your
>>>> DS offices about it because, although the editting isn't perfect, it's
>>>> great for getting materials on demand.
>>>>
>>>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  I
>>>> can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have to
>>>> actually access a page specific to my university and haven't used this
>>>> one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
>>>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa5369%40netzero.net

____________________________________________________________
One Weird Trick
Could add $1,000s to Your Social Security Checks! See if you Qualify&#8230
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/524f845c1e02c45a39c7st01vuc


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 14:24:16 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 10:24:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <4EB0E984-886D-4CF7-B32D-0B82F3CA34E1@gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>	<77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>	<8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>	<CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>	<-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
	<4EB0E984-886D-4CF7-B32D-0B82F3CA34E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008901cec1d6$93b926b0$bb2b7410$@gmail.com>

How do I use robo braille?  How does it work?

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 11:03 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.

Perhaps not, but voice over reads my pdf political science book as pictures, which Robo braille converts just fine. Whether they are pictures or not I don't know, but I know voiceover won't read it and if I have a way to independently get it in a text format without having to rely on help, that's all that matters to me personally.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 10:57 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes—RoboBraille is awesome! However, I still see a place for dedicated 
> OCR software, as RoboBraille can't scan printed text in a hardcopy 
> format. Even if a print document were scanned with a mainstream 
> scanner without OCR software, it would scan to either a JPEG or image 
> PDF file, which I don't think Robobraille can convert.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I've been using RoboBraille for the past two years or so, after Vejas 
>> on this list told me about it. It's really amazing. I've stopped 
>> using Kurzweil because RoboBraille is more accurate, and free. Hoping 
>> this free service will help cut down on students' reliance on 
>> expensive OCR technology (which IMHO doesn't do as good of a job).
>> 
>> Arielle
>> 
>>> On 10/4/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
>>> Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home 
>>> page that emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for 
>>> higher education, and without the language choices on the RoboBraille site.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Burke
>>> Academic and Youth Services
>>> Colorado Center for the Blind
>>> Take charge with confidence and self-reliance
>>> 
>>> www.cocenter.org
>>> facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
>>> @CoCenter4Blind
>>> www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg
>>> 
>>> 2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
>>> Littleton, CO  80120
>>> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
>>> Fax:  303-778-1598
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh 
>>> Gregory
>>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>> 
>>> Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the 
>>> same thing?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum 
>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Does this require that an account be set up?
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton 
>>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be 
>>>>> a good time to share a useful link.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented 
>>>>> a tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes 
>>>>> to a service that will convert them to accessible files and email 
>>>>> them back to you.  This is great for those times when your 
>>>>> professor gives you a last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't 
>>>>> make it to the DS office before it closes but don't want to wait 
>>>>> another day to get your copy of the homework.  It's called Sensus 
>>>>> Access.  There are four easy steps to getting your file converted, 
>>>>> and emails usually reach my inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would 
>>>>> highly recommend you talk to your DS offices about it because, 
>>>>> although the editting isn't perfect, it's great for getting materials on demand.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.  
>>>>> I can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have 
>>>>> to actually access a page specific to my university and haven't 
>>>>> used this one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
>>>>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gm
>>>> ail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocente
>>> r.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai
>>> l.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>> gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail
> .com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 15:39:26 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 11:39:26 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <008901cec1d6$93b926b0$bb2b7410$@gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
	<77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>
	<8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
	<4EB0E984-886D-4CF7-B32D-0B82F3CA34E1@gmail.com>
	<008901cec1d6$93b926b0$bb2b7410$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-7474146170564730747@unknownmsgid>

Send an email with the file you want converted to
convert at robobraille.org. In the subject line of this email, enter the
file type you want the original file to be converted to: DOC, TXT,
RTF, BRF, etc. Within a few minutes, you will receive an email from
RoboBraille with the converted file attached.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2013, at 10:24 AM, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> How do I use robo braille?  How does it work?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 11:03 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>
> Perhaps not, but voice over reads my pdf political science book as pictures, which Robo braille converts just fine. Whether they are pictures or not I don't know, but I know voiceover won't read it and if I have a way to independently get it in a text format without having to rely on help, that's all that matters to me personally.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 10:57 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yes—RoboBraille is awesome! However, I still see a place for dedicated
>> OCR software, as RoboBraille can't scan printed text in a hardcopy
>> format. Even if a print document were scanned with a mainstream
>> scanner without OCR software, it would scan to either a JPEG or image
>> PDF file, which I don't think Robobraille can convert.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been using RoboBraille for the past two years or so, after Vejas
>>> on this list told me about it. It's really amazing. I've stopped
>>> using Kurzweil because RoboBraille is more accurate, and free. Hoping
>>> this free service will help cut down on students' reliance on
>>> expensive OCR technology (which IMHO doesn't do as good of a job).
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>> On 10/4/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
>>>> Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home
>>>> page that emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for
>>>> higher education, and without the language choices on the RoboBraille site.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dan Burke
>>>> Academic and Youth Services
>>>> Colorado Center for the Blind
>>>> Take charge with confidence and self-reliance
>>>>
>>>> www.cocenter.org
>>>> facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
>>>> @CoCenter4Blind
>>>> www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg
>>>>
>>>> 2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
>>>> Littleton, CO  80120
>>>> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
>>>> Fax:  303-778-1598
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh
>>>> Gregory
>>>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>>>
>>>> Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the
>>>> same thing?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum
>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this require that an account be set up?
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be
>>>>>> a good time to share a useful link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented
>>>>>> a tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes
>>>>>> to a service that will convert them to accessible files and email
>>>>>> them back to you.  This is great for those times when your
>>>>>> professor gives you a last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't
>>>>>> make it to the DS office before it closes but don't want to wait
>>>>>> another day to get your copy of the homework.  It's called Sensus
>>>>>> Access.  There are four easy steps to getting your file converted,
>>>>>> and emails usually reach my inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would
>>>>>> highly recommend you talk to your DS offices about it because,
>>>>>> although the editting isn't perfect, it's great for getting materials on demand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.
>>>>>> I can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have
>>>>>> to actually access a page specific to my university and haven't
>>>>>> used this one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it out.
>>>>>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum
>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gm
>>>>> ail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocente
>>>> r.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai
>>>> l.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>>> gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail
>> .com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 16:19:56 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 10:19:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <-7474146170564730747@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
	<77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>
	<8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
	<4EB0E984-886D-4CF7-B32D-0B82F3CA34E1@gmail.com>
	<008901cec1d6$93b926b0$bb2b7410$@gmail.com>
	<-7474146170564730747@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAnbMQ6Tzr+jh2NyA5UEPKe77bZhn5Y1XmydEdePuU3oQ@mail.gmail.com>

RoboBraille does read scanned image files. I use it often to read
documents that my department's office workers scan for me, on their
commercial scanner with no OCR software. It is entirely possible for a
student to buy a commercial scanner/printer combo, scan their
textbooks or handouts, save the generated images to their desktop and
then put them through RoboBraille, all without having to purchase any
blind-specific technology. One could also hire a reader to do the
scanning, which would probably be a lot cheaper than having the reader
read.

Arielle

On 10/5/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Send an email with the file you want converted to
> convert at robobraille.org. In the subject line of this email, enter the
> file type you want the original file to be converted to: DOC, TXT,
> RTF, BRF, etc. Within a few minutes, you will receive an email from
> RoboBraille with the converted file attached.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 5, 2013, at 10:24 AM, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> How do I use robo braille?  How does it work?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 11:03 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>
>> Perhaps not, but voice over reads my pdf political science book as
>> pictures, which Robo braille converts just fine. Whether they are pictures
>> or not I don't know, but I know voiceover won't read it and if I have a
>> way to independently get it in a text format without having to rely on
>> help, that's all that matters to me personally.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 10:57 PM, christopher nusbaum
>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes—RoboBraille is awesome! However, I still see a place for dedicated
>>> OCR software, as RoboBraille can't scan printed text in a hardcopy
>>> format. Even if a print document were scanned with a mainstream
>>> scanner without OCR software, it would scan to either a JPEG or image
>>> PDF file, which I don't think Robobraille can convert.
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've been using RoboBraille for the past two years or so, after Vejas
>>>> on this list told me about it. It's really amazing. I've stopped
>>>> using Kurzweil because RoboBraille is more accurate, and free. Hoping
>>>> this free service will help cut down on students' reliance on
>>>> expensive OCR technology (which IMHO doesn't do as good of a job).
>>>>
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/4/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
>>>>> Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home
>>>>> page that emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for
>>>>> higher education, and without the language choices on the RoboBraille
>>>>> site.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan Burke
>>>>> Academic and Youth Services
>>>>> Colorado Center for the Blind
>>>>> Take charge with confidence and self-reliance
>>>>>
>>>>> www.cocenter.org
>>>>> facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
>>>>> @CoCenter4Blind
>>>>> www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg
>>>>>
>>>>> 2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
>>>>> Littleton, CO  80120
>>>>> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
>>>>> Fax:  303-778-1598
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh
>>>>> Gregory
>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the
>>>>> same thing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum
>>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does this require that an account be set up?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be
>>>>>>> a good time to share a useful link.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented
>>>>>>> a tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes
>>>>>>> to a service that will convert them to accessible files and email
>>>>>>> them back to you.  This is great for those times when your
>>>>>>> professor gives you a last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't
>>>>>>> make it to the DS office before it closes but don't want to wait
>>>>>>> another day to get your copy of the homework.  It's called Sensus
>>>>>>> Access.  There are four easy steps to getting your file converted,
>>>>>>> and emails usually reach my inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would
>>>>>>> highly recommend you talk to your DS offices about it because,
>>>>>>> although the editting isn't perfect, it's great for getting materials
>>>>>>> on demand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.
>>>>>>> I can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have
>>>>>>> to actually access a page specific to my university and haven't
>>>>>>> used this one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it
>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum
>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gm
>>>>>> ail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocente
>>>>> r.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai
>>>>> l.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail
>>> .com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 16:25:36 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 12:25:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAnbMQ6Tzr+jh2NyA5UEPKe77bZhn5Y1XmydEdePuU3oQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FaAu3pJYZov7B11ZYg+VDcexujuh+BajvTk7iNTMutaKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<-4921586158416122741@unknownmsgid>
	<77A96AE2-D995-4930-8CF7-3C9C4183227F@gmail.com>
	<8eed2982d037490d923bd2cc4457ffcd@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CALAYQJCvoh6N2E1Z9yJ7w5e++BkWn-2ti3hbS=U9pfbcdTKXrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-5959205066147651907@unknownmsgid>
	<4EB0E984-886D-4CF7-B32D-0B82F3CA34E1@gmail.com>
	<008901cec1d6$93b926b0$bb2b7410$@gmail.com>
	<-7474146170564730747@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJAnbMQ6Tzr+jh2NyA5UEPKe77bZhn5Y1XmydEdePuU3oQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D2E324A-615F-4B59-9F37-EA56E1D0F86F@gmail.com>

Yeah as I stated before, this works quite well with the political science book that my college scanned in for me. Definitely a lot more time-saving than having to go to the department to get them to scan it into a different format...

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2013, at 12:19 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> RoboBraille does read scanned image files. I use it often to read
> documents that my department's office workers scan for me, on their
> commercial scanner with no OCR software. It is entirely possible for a
> student to buy a commercial scanner/printer combo, scan their
> textbooks or handouts, save the generated images to their desktop and
> then put them through RoboBraille, all without having to purchase any
> blind-specific technology. One could also hire a reader to do the
> scanning, which would probably be a lot cheaper than having the reader
> read.
> 
> Arielle
> 
>> On 10/5/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Send an email with the file you want converted to
>> convert at robobraille.org. In the subject line of this email, enter the
>> file type you want the original file to be converted to: DOC, TXT,
>> RTF, BRF, etc. Within a few minutes, you will receive an email from
>> RoboBraille with the converted file attached.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 5, 2013, at 10:24 AM, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> How do I use robo braille?  How does it work?
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
>>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 11:03 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps not, but voice over reads my pdf political science book as
>>> pictures, which Robo braille converts just fine. Whether they are pictures
>>> or not I don't know, but I know voiceover won't read it and if I have a
>>> way to independently get it in a text format without having to rely on
>>> help, that's all that matters to me personally.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 10:57 PM, christopher nusbaum
>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Yes—RoboBraille is awesome! However, I still see a place for dedicated
>>>> OCR software, as RoboBraille can't scan printed text in a hardcopy
>>>> format. Even if a print document were scanned with a mainstream
>>>> scanner without OCR software, it would scan to either a JPEG or image
>>>> PDF file, which I don't think Robobraille can convert.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've been using RoboBraille for the past two years or so, after Vejas
>>>>> on this list told me about it. It's really amazing. I've stopped
>>>>> using Kurzweil because RoboBraille is more accurate, and free. Hoping
>>>>> this free service will help cut down on students' reliance on
>>>>> expensive OCR technology (which IMHO doesn't do as good of a job).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 10/4/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Looking through the web site, it is RoboBraille.  Just a new home
>>>>>> page that emphasizes that it is somehow an initiative of and for
>>>>>> higher education, and without the language choices on the RoboBraille
>>>>>> site.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dan Burke
>>>>>> Academic and Youth Services
>>>>>> Colorado Center for the Blind
>>>>>> Take charge with confidence and self-reliance
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.cocenter.org
>>>>>> facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
>>>>>> @CoCenter4Blind
>>>>>> www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
>>>>>> Littleton, CO  80120
>>>>>> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
>>>>>> Fax:  303-778-1598
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh
>>>>>> Gregory
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:10 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tool for accessing print materials.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just pointing this out, but doesn't Robobraille pretty much do the
>>>>>> same thing?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:59 AM, christopher nusbaum
>>>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Does this require that an account be set up?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>>>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I saw the email about the Reading Project, and thought it would be
>>>>>>>> a good time to share a useful link.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> My university's Office of Learning Resources has just implimented
>>>>>>>> a tool that allows students to upload files of varrying filetypes
>>>>>>>> to a service that will convert them to accessible files and email
>>>>>>>> them back to you.  This is great for those times when your
>>>>>>>> professor gives you a last-minute worksheet, or if you just can't
>>>>>>>> make it to the DS office before it closes but don't want to wait
>>>>>>>> another day to get your copy of the homework.  It's called Sensus
>>>>>>>> Access.  There are four easy steps to getting your file converted,
>>>>>>>> and emails usually reach my inbox in 5 minutes or less.  I would
>>>>>>>> highly recommend you talk to your DS offices about it because,
>>>>>>>> although the editting isn't perfect, it's great for getting materials
>>>>>>>> on demand.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've included a link so you can see the basics of what it's like.
>>>>>>>> I can't vouch for if this site will work for everyone, (as I have
>>>>>>>> to actually access a page specific to my university and haven't
>>>>>>>> used this one before), but it looks like you might be able to test it
>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>> http://sensusaccess.com/
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum
>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gm
>>>>>>> ail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocente
>>>>>> r.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai
>>>>>> l.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 12:06:29 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonnya)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 08:06:29 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] French class
In-Reply-To: <CAAJqG9gu5N+R-H+0A5j88T0B3=d2R=PvVgQC_h8M_32zOmFytg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <524C566B.3000903@gmail.com>
	<CAAJqG9gu5N+R-H+0A5j88T0B3=d2R=PvVgQC_h8M_32zOmFytg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0B8EC68F-206F-4961-9B3E-F9DBE17129F7@gmail.com>

Also if u can, try and see if u can record the lessons. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2013, at 9:47, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Brandon,
> 
> I think a conversation with your professor would be extremely
> beneficial. Perhaps she doesn't understand that you cant follow what
> she's doing when she's drawing pictures on the board and rapidly
> speaking in French. Another suggestion I have is getting a notetaker
> for the class. I'm sure a lot of people oppose the idea of a
> notetaker, but I found that when I was taking elementary Italian, it
> was really helpful to have someone write down what my professor was
> writing on the board. The notes allowed me to learn the spelling and
> accent marks of the words.
> 
> Minh
> 
>> On 10/2/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I am in a french class where the teacher doesn't believe in translating
>> anything
>> It is beginning french and half of her class is her drawing pictures and
>> words on the board.
>> She says the word in french, draws the picture and erases it.
>> To say I am lost is to put it mildly. I speak a little Italian, so can
>> get some things because they are the same in Italian or really near. But
>> she does maybe a hundred words a day and goes way too fast for me to
>> write down all the words and put them through a translater or ask her
>> after class.
>> She talked for 20 minutes and I had no idea she was talking about time
>> until she explained in English that you have to use the 24 hour system
>> in France for official time.
>> Does anyone know how I can make this type of class work? I really would
>> like to take at least one language class in a class room. So far
>> everything has been on my own.
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> --
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 08:40:01 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 01:40:01 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] From the Presenters to you: Back to  school call notes.
Message-ID: <7250A136-1904-44B4-98B7-FF9A5EFBFA83@gmail.com>

Hello Nabs-ters,

 Recall that  we had  a back to school call a few weeks ago with  a couple of all-star speakers.
 If  for some reason you missed it   or need to get their wisdom again, I am pleased to tell you that they  have been so kind as to give you a written account of their secrets to  unending and invaluable academic and social success.
 First from Cody: Back to School Conference Call Notes
Academia
Requesting Accommodations
It is important to request accommodations with Disability Support Services ahead of time.
They will usually give out accommodation letters to give to professors that list the granted accommodations.
Give letter to professor before start of class via email or in person
D. Ask if he or she has additional questions comments or concerns so these issues can be handled ahead of time.
Obtaining Text Books
A. Learning Ally is a great resource

  Membership costs $100 but may be able to have DVR pay the cost or be put on school membership

B. Book share also carries a wide variety of books

Excellent because it is free to students

In the text book cannot be obtained through an outside resource your DSO should be able to convert it or obtain an accessible copy from the publisher.


Inaccessible projects
Often times (depending on major) some students will be challenged with projects or assignments that are inaccessible as a result of computer programs

Options Available:

Ask professor for alternative assignment that achieves the same purpose.

Hire reader to help assist in describing visual aspects of the project.

Work with a classmate if allowed on the project but make sure that you are contributing to the project and gaining an understanding of the material even of your partner may have to perform certain tasks due to their inaccessibility.

*There is a time and place for all of the above said methods.

4. Hiring Readers

 If material is technical make sure to hire someone who understands it if it

Often times the head of the department can recommend exceptional students to you as readers.



And from Liliya:
NABS Comference Call Write up that took place on: Sept 22nd, 2013. 

At: 7:00 PM Eastern Standard Time.



Speaker Presented on Behalf of Involvement on Campus and Campus Orientation: Liliya Asadullina

College orientation usually takes place 3 to 4 days during the summer. The college offers several times that you can choose to attend.

Orientation includes a tour of campus and dorms, activities for Freshmenn, Freshmenn class meeting which is called Freshmenn convocation. This is a time to meet others and ask any questions that you may have. Some activities will be present so that you could get to know people. Activities may include movie night, ice cream social, and small group activities.

You will have a small group leader who will be like a tour guide for you during your orientation session. You will have free meals in the cafeteria to get you oriented and you will listen to a few speakers. The speakers will inform you of vital information.

You will have a random room mate for the time of the orientation. Don’t hesitate to put yourself out there and meet new people. It will be uncomfortable at first, but it will be beneficial if you do so.

Welcome week:

This week includes activities from all of the campus organizations and clubs. The orgs / clubs will have intro sessions that will inform you about their goals and what they are all about.

Essentially it is a week to explore what is on Campus. There will be also social events such as bbq’s and movie nights in order for the Freshmenn to get to know each other.

The housing department will hoast events as well. 

You will have a floor dorm meeting with your residential adviser, (RA.) Your RA might have an activity planned for you. An RA is like a mother/father figure of the Freshmenn floor. He/she is an upper classman who is in charge of the dorm floor. They make sure everyone is getting along and if not they will write people up. They are there to help if anyone needs it. They inform everyone who lives on that floor about up coming events.

Every floor in a dorm setting has an RA.

Tips:

Getting involved on campus can help you establish long-term friendships, relationships, and provide you with good connections.

Get out of your comfort zone by putting yourself into big crowded events, and introducing yourself to random people.

Go join clubs that no one you know is in it.



Prioritizing:

Make yourself a daily calendar. Fill in your times and activities/class schedule.

Getting Oriented to Campus:

Walk through the class schedule a few times before school begins. Have a parent or friend walk through the schedule with you. Even a college disabilities office staff can help you with that. Don’t be afraid to ask people questions if you are lost. This is also another way to make friends.

You also have an option to get your OVR Rehab center to pay for you to get an  O and M instructor, but don’t utilize them too much. 

If you have any further questions about college life, feel free to email me at: aliliya at msudenver.edu

Thank you all and best wishes to your college experiences!


 Again, many thanks to  the presenters of this topic, as they gave us very valuable information.
 
 Remember, we are always looking for topics for membership calls and  presenters for those calls.
 Should  you have any questions/need  some help developing your idea, or have any other questions regarding nabs,
 please feel free to  contact me via the below information.
 Thank you,
  Darian please feel free to contact me via the information below. 





  Darian Smith
2nd Vice President, National Association of Blind Students
(415) 215-9809
dsmithnfb at gmail.com

www.nabslink.org
Follow the National Association of Blind Students on twitter: @nabslink
> 
> Vehicle Donations Take the Blind Further 
> Donate your car to the National Federation of the Blind today!
> For more information, please visit: www.carshelpingtheblind.org or call 1-855-659-9314


From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 21:35:22 2013
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 17:35:22 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] PinTerest?
Message-ID: <CAM6GWxwQhYMY8rhr0__f3fG7x16aJJt-10ni996=RiP3D+paRA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Everyone:

Does anyone use Pinterest?
Is it accessible with Jaws at all?
I have always thought it was mainly visual, then was searching for a
dessert recipe on Google and one of the results for this recipe was
Pinterrest.
I then learned Pinterest has tons of recipes on it.
Is there any way to be able to read these recipes with Jaws?
Has anyone found a way to use it at all?
Thanks,
Kerri


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 21:43:17 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 17:43:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] PinTerest?
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxwQhYMY8rhr0__f3fG7x16aJJt-10ni996=RiP3D+paRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwQhYMY8rhr0__f3fG7x16aJJt-10ni996=RiP3D+paRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbHViRaiaB-=XRTsQ91gGzMnUc1ejVs0SL6CX8_36oZwg@mail.gmail.com>

I have not used Pinterest mainly because I was told I'd get sucked
into it if I did, but if you have an IPhone you can try using the app.

On 10/6/13, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Everyone:
>
> Does anyone use Pinterest?
> Is it accessible with Jaws at all?
> I have always thought it was mainly visual, then was searching for a
> dessert recipe on Google and one of the results for this recipe was
> Pinterrest.
> I then learned Pinterest has tons of recipes on it.
> Is there any way to be able to read these recipes with Jaws?
> Has anyone found a way to use it at all?
> Thanks,
> Kerri
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Oct  6 23:44:36 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 19:44:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] PinTerest?
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxwQhYMY8rhr0__f3fG7x16aJJt-10ni996=RiP3D+paRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwQhYMY8rhr0__f3fG7x16aJJt-10ni996=RiP3D+paRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <61B194695D7B42E0A60F9ACB78DED30F@OwnerPC>

Hi Kerri,
As you thoug, the site is mostly visual. Its like a bulletin board and 
people tell me its for pictures of things you've done. My in law puts 
pictures of her family on it. Its stuff people are interested in.

Yes, people post recipies. Like you, I googled a recipie, and found a result 
pointing me to pinterest.
Yes, you can read text with jaws. Try using the quick key H for heading to 
place you at the begginning of the article or recipe.
It is a cluttered site with lots of graphics  and links. It may be hard to 
find the relevant text with jaws, but you can certainly read some of it. I 
prefer other sharing sites for recipes such as allrecipes.com or cooks.com. 
They are cluttered too, but less graphics on them.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kerri Kosten
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 5:35 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] PinTerest?

Hi Everyone:

Does anyone use Pinterest?
Is it accessible with Jaws at all?
I have always thought it was mainly visual, then was searching for a
dessert recipe on Google and one of the results for this recipe was
Pinterrest.
I then learned Pinterest has tons of recipes on it.
Is there any way to be able to read these recipes with Jaws?
Has anyone found a way to use it at all?
Thanks,
Kerri

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From laurel.stockard at gmail.com  Mon Oct  7 02:11:27 2013
From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel and Stockard)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 21:11:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] French class
In-Reply-To: <0B8EC68F-206F-4961-9B3E-F9DBE17129F7@gmail.com>
References: <524C566B.3000903@gmail.com>
	<CAAJqG9gu5N+R-H+0A5j88T0B3=d2R=PvVgQC_h8M_32zOmFytg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0B8EC68F-206F-4961-9B3E-F9DBE17129F7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D28B034-AB41-4332-BBB7-105DB2DC97EC@gmail.com>

Hey Brandon,
Try to get your professor to describe for you the pictures on the board. If you can't come up with a reasonable in class solution, ask her to allow you to record the classes. I'm fluent in French, and if you ever needed, I could listen to the recordings and help you learn the words. If you ever want that kind of help, please feel free to write me off list at laurel.stockard at gmail.com
Hopefully your professor will work with you.
Laurel
On Oct 5, 2013, at 7:06 AM, Lavonnya wrote:

> Also if u can, try and see if u can record the lessons. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2013, at 9:47, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Brandon,
>> 
>> I think a conversation with your professor would be extremely
>> beneficial. Perhaps she doesn't understand that you cant follow what
>> she's doing when she's drawing pictures on the board and rapidly
>> speaking in French. Another suggestion I have is getting a notetaker
>> for the class. I'm sure a lot of people oppose the idea of a
>> notetaker, but I found that when I was taking elementary Italian, it
>> was really helpful to have someone write down what my professor was
>> writing on the board. The notes allowed me to learn the spelling and
>> accent marks of the words.
>> 
>> Minh
>> 
>>> On 10/2/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I am in a french class where the teacher doesn't believe in translating
>>> anything
>>> It is beginning french and half of her class is her drawing pictures and
>>> words on the board.
>>> She says the word in french, draws the picture and erases it.
>>> To say I am lost is to put it mildly. I speak a little Italian, so can
>>> get some things because they are the same in Italian or really near. But
>>> she does maybe a hundred words a day and goes way too fast for me to
>>> write down all the words and put them through a translater or ask her
>>> after class.
>>> She talked for 20 minutes and I had no idea she was talking about time
>>> until she explained in English that you have to use the 24 hour system
>>> in France for official time.
>>> Does anyone know how I can make this type of class work? I really would
>>> like to take at least one language class in a class room. So far
>>> everything has been on my own.
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com



From brlsurfer at gmail.com  Mon Oct  7 23:24:56 2013
From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 16:24:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline
Message-ID: <525342e5.c48e420a.2392.ffffdcbd@mx.google.com>


Hi,
I am having a problem with nfb newsline.  The e-mail address that 
they put in for my account is wrong.  I would like to change the 
e-mail to the correct one.  I called the number and talked to 
someone but no changes were made.  I can't find a contact e-mail 
for newsline.  Does anyone have it?
Vejas


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Mon Oct  7 23:33:20 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 23:33:20 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline
In-Reply-To: <525342e5.c48e420a.2392.ffffdcbd@mx.google.com>
References: <525342e5.c48e420a.2392.ffffdcbd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <c359fa342cdf4c0599e7402a5a050402@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

E-Mail my friend, Scott White!
swhite at nfb.org
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of vejas [brlsurfer at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 6:24 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline

Hi,
I am having a problem with nfb newsline.  The e-mail address that
they put in for my account is wrong.  I would like to change the
e-mail to the correct one.  I called the number and talked to
someone but no changes were made.  I can't find a contact e-mail
for newsline.  Does anyone have it?
Vejas

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com


From brlsurfer at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 00:22:01 2013
From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 17:22:01 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline
Message-ID: <52535046.8ae6420a.0bec.ffffc5fd@mx.google.com>

Thanks.  I did just that.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 23:33:20 +0000
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb newsline

E-Mail my friend, Scott White!
swhite at nfb.org
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of vejas 
[brlsurfer at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 6:24 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline

Hi,
I am having a problem with nfb newsline.  The e-mail address that
they put in for my account is wrong.  I would like to change the
e-mail to the correct one.  I called the number and talked to
someone but no changes were made.  I can't find a contact e-mail
for newsline.  Does anyone have it?
Vejas

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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mail.com


From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Tue Oct  8 00:54:18 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 18:54:18 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] the blind mental health email address failed
Message-ID: <525357BA.9010200@comcast.net>

For those of us who don't know, I think the Mental Health subscription 
thingy failed.  Anyone who wants to help me can do so.
Beth


From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Tue Oct  8 00:54:52 2013
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (Humberto)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 17:54:52 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline
References: <525342e5.c48e420a.2392.ffffdcbd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <773960A4FF1A43F489D99907F9292FAA@HUMBERTOAVILA>

TRY EMAILING TO NFBNEWSLINE at NFB.ORG
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:24 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline


>
> Hi,
> I am having a problem with nfb newsline.  The e-mail address that they put 
> in for my account is wrong.  I would like to change the e-mail to the 
> correct one.  I called the number and talked to someone but no changes 
> were made.  I can't find a contact e-mail for newsline.  Does anyone have 
> it?
> Vejas
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa5369%40netzero.net
> ____________________________________________________________
> New Rule in Mississippi
> If you pay a mortgage in Mississippi, you better do this
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3255/52535204c92d851ef4ed6mp13vuc
> 



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 00:54:40 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 20:54:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline
In-Reply-To: <525342e5.c48e420a.2392.ffffdcbd@mx.google.com>
References: <525342e5.c48e420a.2392.ffffdcbd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <002401cec3c0$f84965e0$e8dc31a0$@gmail.com>

Vejas,

Scott is usually pretty good about getting back to emails, but you might
also send an email to nfbnewsline at nfb.org. I only say this because changes
in subscriber information would most likely be handled by the Newsline tech
support team rather than Scott, who is the director of the program.

HTH,

Chris

Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
Public Relations Committee
Maryland Association of Blind Students
Phone: (443) 547-2409

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of vejas
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 7:25 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline


Hi,
I am having a problem with nfb newsline.  The e-mail address that they put
in for my account is wrong.  I would like to change the e-mail to the
correct one.  I called the number and talked to someone but no changes were
made.  I can't find a contact e-mail for newsline.  Does anyone have it?
Vejas

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 01:08:58 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 21:08:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] the blind mental health email address failed
In-Reply-To: <525357BA.9010200@comcast.net>
References: <525357BA.9010200@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <-6657067207908111461@unknownmsgid>

You might contact Sam Nelson. I'm not sure if she is still on this
list, but I could get her email address for you.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 7, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> For those of us who don't know, I think the Mental Health subscription thingy failed.  Anyone who wants to help me can do so.
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Tue Oct  8 02:03:37 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 20:03:37 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] the blind mental health email address failed
In-Reply-To: <-6657067207908111461@unknownmsgid>
References: <525357BA.9010200@comcast.net> <-6657067207908111461@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <525367F9.3040406@comcast.net>

On 10/7/2013 7:08 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote:
> You might contact Sam Nelson. I'm not sure if she is still on this
> list, but I could get her email address for you.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 7, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> For those of us who don't know, I think the Mental Health subscription thingy failed.  Anyone who wants to help me can do so.
>> Beth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net
>
Go ahead. And goodnight, I forgot you were supposed to be in bed by 
now.  I'd like her email off list thanks.
Beth


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  8 02:21:13 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 22:21:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] temp jobs
Message-ID: <4CE2701FB0224504B13CFA6A21DDC82B@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

As we know the economy is not conducive to finding much full time employment. I’m out of  college and trying to figure out where I may fit; I can be a clerical assistant but I also feel I’d fit in a communications field because I love writing true stories; I’m not into writing fiction.

I came across a temp agency that employs qualified people to do writing tasks, editing, and desktop publishing, and administrative jobs.
Has anyone done or heard of a blind person working a temp job?
I certainly do not know of anyone getting a temp job who is blind or with any disability.
I do not know if temp agencies are covered by the ADA.

It seems like worth trying because if I did find a job through them and liked it, it would give me good experience and cash.
I also feel working a temp job may help me get a feel for what sort of work I want to do.

I’m concerned about the screening tests with the computer. I’m hopeful that if I explain my screen reader and how I need it as an accomodation, they will be accomodating and download a demo of jaws for me.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Also, do you all feel that performing the following little jobs are doable?
I say little as they are not full time work, but rather used to give you experience and money until you find a full time job. This is why there is a turnover of personnel.
The jobs are:

1. selling movie tickets
2. working at a box office which involves answering customer questions, selling tickets via phone and in person, and database entry
3. working at a museum gallery or information desk; this mainly involves  interacting with visitors to answer questions and some job descriptions say care of the galleries/exhibitions.
4. caring for animals and walking them at animal shelter.

I am not interested in animals as a job btw  but know of friends who might be.
I have not heard of blind people doing these jobs. The only  visual job is the museum one. But even then some textures or making labels may help one navigate a gallery. I also have some central vision which may help me handle money, although most of it is done via credit cards now.

I look forward to your thoughts. 

Ashley

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 02:41:52 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 20:41:52 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] temp jobs
In-Reply-To: <4CE2701FB0224504B13CFA6A21DDC82B@OwnerPC>
References: <4CE2701FB0224504B13CFA6A21DDC82B@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJC6B3H_m20bvzKTgm6XW=YHfF62Ux2tzd+70PYXez9i3A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley and all,

You should try asking these questions on the new Young-Professionals
list through NFBNet.
I do not know any blind people who have worked at a temp agency but it
sounds doable. I would however suggest that you make accommodations as
easy on them as possible by installing your own copy of JAWS on their
computer in demo mode if that is required, or asking if you can use
your own laptop. If you manage the accommodations yourself and it
requires absolutely no extra work or expense from them then it
shouldn't be a problem. When I worked summer internships, I was able
to get I.T. to help me install JAWS, but some companies may not have
that.
My sighted husband and his brother have both done temp work and it led
to longer-term work though it was stuff they were over-qualified for.

The entry-level jobs you mention sound like they would be accessible
except if you have to swipe credit cards as an essential job function.
I do not know if the majority of movie theaters and such use
accessible card machines or ones that can be made accessible. That
would be a good question to ask a blind vendor.

Best,
Arielle

On 10/7/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As we know the economy is not conducive to finding much full time
> employment. I’m out of  college and trying to figure out where I may fit; I
> can be a clerical assistant but I also feel I’d fit in a communications
> field because I love writing true stories; I’m not into writing fiction.
>
> I came across a temp agency that employs qualified people to do writing
> tasks, editing, and desktop publishing, and administrative jobs.
> Has anyone done or heard of a blind person working a temp job?
> I certainly do not know of anyone getting a temp job who is blind or with
> any disability.
> I do not know if temp agencies are covered by the ADA.
>
> It seems like worth trying because if I did find a job through them and
> liked it, it would give me good experience and cash.
> I also feel working a temp job may help me get a feel for what sort of work
> I want to do.
>
> I’m concerned about the screening tests with the computer. I’m hopeful that
> if I explain my screen reader and how I need it as an accomodation, they
> will be accomodating and download a demo of jaws for me.
> Interested to hear your thoughts.
> Also, do you all feel that performing the following little jobs are doable?
> I say little as they are not full time work, but rather used to give you
> experience and money until you find a full time job. This is why there is a
> turnover of personnel.
> The jobs are:
>
> 1. selling movie tickets
> 2. working at a box office which involves answering customer questions,
> selling tickets via phone and in person, and database entry
> 3. working at a museum gallery or information desk; this mainly involves
> interacting with visitors to answer questions and some job descriptions say
> care of the galleries/exhibitions.
> 4. caring for animals and walking them at animal shelter.
>
> I am not interested in animals as a job btw  but know of friends who might
> be.
> I have not heard of blind people doing these jobs. The only  visual job is
> the museum one. But even then some textures or making labels may help one
> navigate a gallery. I also have some central vision which may help me handle
> money, although most of it is done via credit cards now.
>
> I look forward to your thoughts.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  8 03:16:46 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 23:16:46 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] temp jobs
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJC6B3H_m20bvzKTgm6XW=YHfF62Ux2tzd+70PYXez9i3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CE2701FB0224504B13CFA6A21DDC82B@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJC6B3H_m20bvzKTgm6XW=YHfF62Ux2tzd+70PYXez9i3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <577C544589754BA59C5EB53B3B6CE85D@OwnerPC>

Hi Arielle,
Thanks for these ideas. Glad to be reminded of the new young professionals 
list.
I agree the temp agency thing sounds doable.

For the temp agency, I might suggest bringing jaws with me, but I'd still 
need IT's assistance in installing it.
Since they have the items for you to work with on their pcs, bringing a 
laptop would not be helpful.
I'd definitely have to discuss how to do those tests. Another idea may be to 
have a reader and I tell them what to input.

To sell items, yes the swiping cards may be a problem.
I did not think of that.
The thing I notice is that with these little entry level jobs, they give few 
details what you actually  do.
It says vague things like "interacts with guests to ensure a smooth 
experience" or "performs general office tasks to assist the vp of sales" or 
assist someone else above you.

I think I'll need to call their hr department and find out more details.
With many theatres around here, it seems like they're always hiring box 
office assistants and the museums often need visitor service 
representatives; so I figured this may be a small doable job to get started.

I'll do some asking around and see what the essential functions really are.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:41 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] temp jobs

Hi Ashley and all,

You should try asking these questions on the new Young-Professionals
list through NFBNet.
I do not know any blind people who have worked at a temp agency but it
sounds doable. I would however suggest that you make accommodations as
easy on them as possible by installing your own copy of JAWS on their
computer in demo mode if that is required, or asking if you can use
your own laptop. If you manage the accommodations yourself and it
requires absolutely no extra work or expense from them then it
shouldn't be a problem. When I worked summer internships, I was able
to get I.T. to help me install JAWS, but some companies may not have
that.
My sighted husband and his brother have both done temp work and it led
to longer-term work though it was stuff they were over-qualified for.

The entry-level jobs you mention sound like they would be accessible
except if you have to swipe credit cards as an essential job function.
I do not know if the majority of movie theaters and such use
accessible card machines or ones that can be made accessible. That
would be a good question to ask a blind vendor.

Best,
Arielle

On 10/7/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As we know the economy is not conducive to finding much full time
> employment. I’m out of  college and trying to figure out where I may fit; 
> I
> can be a clerical assistant but I also feel I’d fit in a communications
> field because I love writing true stories; I’m not into writing fiction.
>
> I came across a temp agency that employs qualified people to do writing
> tasks, editing, and desktop publishing, and administrative jobs.
> Has anyone done or heard of a blind person working a temp job?
> I certainly do not know of anyone getting a temp job who is blind or with
> any disability.
> I do not know if temp agencies are covered by the ADA.
>
> It seems like worth trying because if I did find a job through them and
> liked it, it would give me good experience and cash.
> I also feel working a temp job may help me get a feel for what sort of 
> work
> I want to do.
>
> I’m concerned about the screening tests with the computer. I’m hopeful 
> that
> if I explain my screen reader and how I need it as an accomodation, they
> will be accomodating and download a demo of jaws for me.
> Interested to hear your thoughts.
> Also, do you all feel that performing the following little jobs are 
> doable?
> I say little as they are not full time work, but rather used to give you
> experience and money until you find a full time job. This is why there is 
> a
> turnover of personnel.
> The jobs are:
>
> 1. selling movie tickets
> 2. working at a box office which involves answering customer questions,
> selling tickets via phone and in person, and database entry
> 3. working at a museum gallery or information desk; this mainly involves
> interacting with visitors to answer questions and some job descriptions 
> say
> care of the galleries/exhibitions.
> 4. caring for animals and walking them at animal shelter.
>
> I am not interested in animals as a job btw  but know of friends who might
> be.
> I have not heard of blind people doing these jobs. The only  visual job is
> the museum one. But even then some textures or making labels may help one
> navigate a gallery. I also have some central vision which may help me 
> handle
> money, although most of it is done via credit cards now.
>
> I look forward to your thoughts.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From samnelson1 at verizon.net  Tue Oct  8 03:17:50 2013
From: samnelson1 at verizon.net (Sam Nelson)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 22:17:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] the blind mental health email address failed
In-Reply-To: <525367F9.3040406@comcast.net>
References: <525357BA.9010200@comcast.net> <-6657067207908111461@unknownmsgid>
	<525367F9.3040406@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000f01cec3d4$f90a2dc0$eb1e8940$@verizon.net>

Hi Beth,
 Thanks for reaching out about this. 
 People are having problems subscribing to the list? 
 I'll post the link and directions again. I could have miswrote something
the last time or who  knows what with all the yahoo issues and e-mail can
just be weird sometimes! 
 Yahoo group link. 
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/blind-mentalhealth/conversations/messages

 Subscription e-mail:
 blind-mentalhealth-subscribe at yahoogroups.com

 Directions: 
 Click on above e-mail address. Send a  blank e-mail. (you do not need a
yahoo account to join  FYI)  You should receive a confirmation e-mail from
yahoo, automated, asking you to confirmthat you want to join the group. Just
hit reply and send to the e-mail. You don't need to type anything in the
message. 
 Then I and the other moderators will get a message saying someone wants to
join the group! 
 I hope this  helps. 
 Thanks. 
 Sam

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:04 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the blind mental health email address failed

On 10/7/2013 7:08 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote:
> You might contact Sam Nelson. I'm not sure if she is still on this 
> list, but I could get her email address for you.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 7, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>
wrote:
>>
>> For those of us who don't know, I think the Mental Health subscription
thingy failed.  Anyone who wants to help me can do so.
>> Beth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>> gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40
> comcast.net
>
Go ahead. And goodnight, I forgot you were supposed to be in bed by now.
I'd like her email off list thanks.
Beth

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40verizon.net



From abunchoflettersandnumbers at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 03:51:33 2013
From: abunchoflettersandnumbers at gmail.com (Ashley Allen)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 22:51:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] temp jobs
In-Reply-To: <577C544589754BA59C5EB53B3B6CE85D@OwnerPC>
References: <4CE2701FB0224504B13CFA6A21DDC82B@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJC6B3H_m20bvzKTgm6XW=YHfF62Ux2tzd+70PYXez9i3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<577C544589754BA59C5EB53B3B6CE85D@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAOgy_oPczAw9wQH+ViGRo5UdhXktovKeTugSubpnOWOHrWO+=Q@mail.gmail.com>

I would install a portable copy of NVDA to a flash drive. I still have
residual vision and don't always use a screen reader on my own computers,
but I always have my flash drive with NVDA on it for when I need to drop by
the computer lab at school, or use other public machines. That way you are
bringing your own accommodations to the temp agency, eliminating any extra
work they may feel they need to do.

Ashley Allen
On Oct 7, 2013 10:17 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Hi Arielle,
> Thanks for these ideas. Glad to be reminded of the new young professionals
> list.
> I agree the temp agency thing sounds doable.
>
> For the temp agency, I might suggest bringing jaws with me, but I'd still
> need IT's assistance in installing it.
> Since they have the items for you to work with on their pcs, bringing a
> laptop would not be helpful.
> I'd definitely have to discuss how to do those tests. Another idea may be
> to have a reader and I tell them what to input.
>
> To sell items, yes the swiping cards may be a problem.
> I did not think of that.
> The thing I notice is that with these little entry level jobs, they give
> few details what you actually  do.
> It says vague things like "interacts with guests to ensure a smooth
> experience" or "performs general office tasks to assist the vp of sales" or
> assist someone else above you.
>
> I think I'll need to call their hr department and find out more details.
> With many theatres around here, it seems like they're always hiring box
> office assistants and the museums often need visitor service
> representatives; so I figured this may be a small doable job to get started.
>
> I'll do some asking around and see what the essential functions really are.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] temp jobs
>
> Hi Ashley and all,
>
> You should try asking these questions on the new Young-Professionals
> list through NFBNet.
> I do not know any blind people who have worked at a temp agency but it
> sounds doable. I would however suggest that you make accommodations as
> easy on them as possible by installing your own copy of JAWS on their
> computer in demo mode if that is required, or asking if you can use
> your own laptop. If you manage the accommodations yourself and it
> requires absolutely no extra work or expense from them then it
> shouldn't be a problem. When I worked summer internships, I was able
> to get I.T. to help me install JAWS, but some companies may not have
> that.
> My sighted husband and his brother have both done temp work and it led
> to longer-term work though it was stuff they were over-qualified for.
>
> The entry-level jobs you mention sound like they would be accessible
> except if you have to swipe credit cards as an essential job function.
> I do not know if the majority of movie theaters and such use
> accessible card machines or ones that can be made accessible. That
> would be a good question to ask a blind vendor.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/7/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As we know the economy is not conducive to finding much full time
>> employment. I’m out of  college and trying to figure out where I may fit;
>> I
>> can be a clerical assistant but I also feel I’d fit in a communications
>> field because I love writing true stories; I’m not into writing fiction.
>>
>> I came across a temp agency that employs qualified people to do writing
>> tasks, editing, and desktop publishing, and administrative jobs.
>> Has anyone done or heard of a blind person working a temp job?
>> I certainly do not know of anyone getting a temp job who is blind or with
>> any disability.
>> I do not know if temp agencies are covered by the ADA.
>>
>> It seems like worth trying because if I did find a job through them and
>> liked it, it would give me good experience and cash.
>> I also feel working a temp job may help me get a feel for what sort of
>> work
>> I want to do.
>>
>> I’m concerned about the screening tests with the computer. I’m hopeful
>> that
>> if I explain my screen reader and how I need it as an accomodation, they
>> will be accomodating and download a demo of jaws for me.
>> Interested to hear your thoughts.
>> Also, do you all feel that performing the following little jobs are
>> doable?
>> I say little as they are not full time work, but rather used to give you
>> experience and money until you find a full time job. This is why there is
>> a
>> turnover of personnel.
>> The jobs are:
>>
>> 1. selling movie tickets
>> 2. working at a box office which involves answering customer questions,
>> selling tickets via phone and in person, and database entry
>> 3. working at a museum gallery or information desk; this mainly involves
>> interacting with visitors to answer questions and some job descriptions
>> say
>> care of the galleries/exhibitions.
>> 4. caring for animals and walking them at animal shelter.
>>
>> I am not interested in animals as a job btw  but know of friends who might
>> be.
>> I have not heard of blind people doing these jobs. The only  visual job is
>> the museum one. But even then some textures or making labels may help one
>> navigate a gallery. I also have some central vision which may help me
>> handle
>> money, although most of it is done via credit cards now.
>>
>> I look forward to your thoughts.
>>
>> Ashley
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> arielle71%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com>
>>
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
> abunchoflettersandnumbers%**40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/abunchoflettersandnumbers%40gmail.com>
>

From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Tue Oct  8 06:29:46 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 00:29:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] the blind mental health email address failed
In-Reply-To: <000f01cec3d4$f90a2dc0$eb1e8940$@verizon.net>
References: <525357BA.9010200@comcast.net> <-6657067207908111461@unknownmsgid>
	<525367F9.3040406@comcast.net>
	<000f01cec3d4$f90a2dc0$eb1e8940$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <5253A65A.2010805@comcast.net>

Hey, Sam. Thanks.  I should be throwing a blank message your way. :)
BethOn 10/7/2013 9:17 PM, Sam Nelson wrote:
> Hi Beth,
>   Thanks for reaching out about this.
>   People are having problems subscribing to the list?
>   I'll post the link and directions again. I could have miswrote something
> the last time or who  knows what with all the yahoo issues and e-mail can
> just be weird sometimes!
>   Yahoo group link.
>   
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/blind-mentalhealth/conversations/messages
>
>   Subscription e-mail:
>   blind-mentalhealth-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
>
>   Directions:
>   Click on above e-mail address. Send a  blank e-mail. (you do not need a
> yahoo account to join  FYI)  You should receive a confirmation e-mail from
> yahoo, automated, asking you to confirmthat you want to join the group. Just
> hit reply and send to the e-mail. You don't need to type anything in the
> message.
>   Then I and the other moderators will get a message saying someone wants to
> join the group!
>   I hope this  helps.
>   Thanks.
>   Sam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
> Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:04 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the blind mental health email address failed
>
> On 10/7/2013 7:08 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote:
>> You might contact Sam Nelson. I'm not sure if she is still on this
>> list, but I could get her email address for you.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>>> For those of us who don't know, I think the Mental Health subscription
> thingy failed.  Anyone who wants to help me can do so.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>>> gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40
>> comcast.net
>>
> Go ahead. And goodnight, I forgot you were supposed to be in bed by now.
> I'd like her email off list thanks.
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast


From zeek786 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 06:40:24 2013
From: zeek786 at gmail.com (Zeeshan Khan)
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 01:40:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Finding People and MOre
Message-ID: <auto-000127041841@mailfront4.g2host.com>

I have been asked to circulate the following.  Please respond to the 
individual at the bottom of the message as he may not be subscribed 
to this list.
a
David Andrews, List Owner






Hello everyone,
As a visually impaired person, I have noticed way too often that I 
have no idea who is nearby even if I know that person, unless that 
person says something. This can lead to unique social interactions, 
to say the least. I have found myself re-introducing myself to people 
whom I've met multiple times, as some people start sounding similar 
and it can be difficult to distinguish the voices sometimes.

After getting frustrated for a while, I really wanted to understand 
this problem better, so I started researching. After much research I 
came across a Mobile App called 'Circle' which notifies you when 
people you know, are nearby.let's say within 100 feet. I thought this 
was AWESOME!!

I really wanted to know if anyone has used this App or would be 
willing to test it out, and provide feedback and asking other 
visually impaired people you know about it as well.  I would love to 
hear everyone's feedback about this App and if you would like to 
share your frustrations when it comes to not knowing if your friends 
/ colleagues are around you, I would love to hear those as well.

I personally believe that technology for a visually impaired 
individual should not be limited to communication, functionality etc 
but it should enhance social experiences as well!

Another problem I come across when it comes to gaining access to 
smartphones is the affordability factor. Given the high unemployment 
rate within the visually impaired community, it can be difficult to 
afford a smartphone. Given that, I feel that unless smartphones 
become more affordable, making the technology better and more 
accessible won't prove as successful.

Link for App

<http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.sinatranetwork.com%2F2013%2F04%2F21%2Flocation-social-networking-circle-app-review%2F&h=eAQH-9neuAQHOCQC-z4wZ5DR95b9VOEcA3MIo46y8KFph7Q&s=1>http://blog.sinatranetwork.com/2013/04/21/location-social-networking-circle-app-review/

Thanks,
Zeeshan

From: "Zeeshan Khan" <zeek786 at gmail.com>

From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 12:06:29 2013
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus)
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 08:06:29 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Help Writing An Article
Message-ID: <5253f56a.6649ec0a.7be5.ffff86e2@mx.google.com>

Hi everyone hope you're doing well.  I need help finding someone 
to write an article for the Fall issue of the Student Slate.  Do 
you know anyone who could write about the Common Core Standards 
that are being anopted in education? Please email me off list as 
soon as possible.


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  8 14:00:31 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 10:00:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] St. John's University:
In-Reply-To: <000f01cec3d4$f90a2dc0$eb1e8940$@verizon.net>
References: <525357BA.9010200@comcast.net> <-6657067207908111461@unknownmsgid>
	<525367F9.3040406@comcast.net>
	<000f01cec3d4$f90a2dc0$eb1e8940$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS323F194A671549C58139B05DC1C0@phx.gbl>

Good morning,
I have a contact down in the NYC area. They are attending this university.  The university is informing them that, another blind student is currently going or has recently attended this school.  From what I understand, this university offers little to no services for someone with a visual disability. This individual feels like they are being ripped-off as a consumer. They are paying the same as everyone else; yet, receiving sub-standard services if any.
I would appreciate any feedback from anyone.
Thank you



From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 15:03:47 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 16:03:47 +0100
Subject: [nabs-l] keeping braille organized
In-Reply-To: <3B4ED1A0D5904BF297559BC680DB81FE@JAWS>
References: <CAHox4DJHOsgmG8p7dCBzxmkh9o=XyMPaFcweiXvPCVKyydm4Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3B4ED1A0D5904BF297559BC680DB81FE@JAWS>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH69ZspE8ac4o19SKHoN1y5QJUoH=8RqssLK-mfu=of=yEw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Julie,
I know I'm a bit late to this conversation but have you tried looking
into ordinary stationer shops? I present a weekly radio programme and
have mountains of Braille scripts. I use folders designed for
accountants, available from good stationers. They stand up properly,
are long enough, tall enough  and wide enough for 12 inch long
embosser paper.

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 9/11/13, I. C. Bray <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
> APH has a 3-pack of semi-rigid open tab folders that work really well.
>
> I ordered some back when I was doing Nemeth.
>
> Ian  C. Bray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie McGinnity" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:56 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] keeping braille organized
>
>
> : Hello fellow students,
> :
> : Although we all love Braille very much, we must admit that it is very
> : bulky and poses a problem for those of us who are naturally a little
> : disorganized.  I have found myself embossing quite a lot of Braille
> : this semester for my music classes(this is why I can't use a Braille
> : display), and I am looking for somewhere I can get folders, binders,
> : or anything that will fit the larger sized Braille paper, which is
> : what I have to work with at the moment.  I looked at APH and the
> : independence Market and didn't see anything.  I would also welcome any
> : tips on keeping my Braille contained and organized.  Hope everyone is
> : having a wonderful semester!
> :
> :
> :
> :
> : --
> : Julie McG
> : National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> : Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> : Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> : and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> : "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> : everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> : life."
> : John 3:16
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 16:46:36 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 12:46:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] keeping braille organized
In-Reply-To: <CAJcYH69ZspE8ac4o19SKHoN1y5QJUoH=8RqssLK-mfu=of=yEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJHOsgmG8p7dCBzxmkh9o=XyMPaFcweiXvPCVKyydm4Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3B4ED1A0D5904BF297559BC680DB81FE@JAWS>
	<CAJcYH69ZspE8ac4o19SKHoN1y5QJUoH=8RqssLK-mfu=of=yEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaMGtotmmvZ4LAOMKxawAom5+ww5ayLaxQD1y51txBjcA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Julie,

>From a fellow music major's perspective, I've found a few strategies
that really have worked well for me.

The bulk of my music is for Wind Ensemble, and my disabilities office
has an embosser that uses the larger paper.  What I did to keep all
that together was go to the bookstore on campus and buy a huge 3-ring
binder.  (I think it's at least 4 inches).  It is big enough so that
the braille paper just barely sticks out of the side, but not enough
to actually damage any music notation, just the right margin.  I just
whole punch my music and keep it in there in concert order.

I know this might be somewhat different for a performer and/or grad
student, but when I am no longer playing a piece in an ensemble and
doubt I'll play it again I get rid of at least the hard copy form.
Usually I'll request that the electronic files be saved just in case,
but keeping that old music around in braille is a recipe for clutter
for me.  I do keep some things that I think I will play again, and I
keep those electronic files as well as the hard coppies which I store
in another binder.


On 10/8/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Julie,
> I know I'm a bit late to this conversation but have you tried looking
> into ordinary stationer shops? I present a weekly radio programme and
> have mountains of Braille scripts. I use folders designed for
> accountants, available from good stationers. They stand up properly,
> are long enough, tall enough  and wide enough for 12 inch long
> embosser paper.
>
> Very best wishes,
> Sandra.
>
> On 9/11/13, I. C. Bray <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
>> APH has a 3-pack of semi-rigid open tab folders that work really well.
>>
>> I ordered some back when I was doing Nemeth.
>>
>> Ian  C. Bray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Julie McGinnity" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:56 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] keeping braille organized
>>
>>
>> : Hello fellow students,
>> :
>> : Although we all love Braille very much, we must admit that it is very
>> : bulky and poses a problem for those of us who are naturally a little
>> : disorganized.  I have found myself embossing quite a lot of Braille
>> : this semester for my music classes(this is why I can't use a Braille
>> : display), and I am looking for somewhere I can get folders, binders,
>> : or anything that will fit the larger sized Braille paper, which is
>> : what I have to work with at the moment.  I looked at APH and the
>> : independence Market and didn't see anything.  I would also welcome any
>> : tips on keeping my Braille contained and organized.  Hope everyone is
>> : having a wonderful semester!
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> : --
>> : Julie McG
>> : National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> : Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> : Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> : and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> : "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> : everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> : life."
>> : John 3:16
>> :
>> : _______________________________________________
>> : nabs-l mailing list
>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Soprano Singer
>  www.sandragayer.com
>
> Broadcast Presenter
>
> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 17:17:27 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:17:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: CAREER EXPO for people with disabilities and Veterans
 in Washington, D.C., November 22nd!
References: <00d201cec421$7235dae0$56a190a0$@lbph.lib.md.us>
Message-ID: <-6453547811765460672@unknownmsgid>

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

*From:* Mollyne Honor <mrhonor at LBPH.LIB.MD.US>
*Date:* October 8, 2013 at 8:25:16 AM EDT
*To:* <LBPH_INFO-L at LISTSRV.MSDE.STATE.MD.US>
*Subject:* *CAREER EXPO for people with disabilities and Veterans in
Washington, D.C., November 22nd!*
*Reply-To:* Mollyne Honor <mrhonor at LBPH.LIB.MD.US>

Register today for the largest CAREER EXPO for people with disABILITIES and
Veterans in Washington, D.C., November 22nd!

Urgent message to all job seekers with disabilities

*CAREER EXPO FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES & VETERANS***

*NOVEMBER 22nd, WASHINGTON, DC*

HOSTED BY CAREERS & the disABLED MAGAZINE.

If you have not yet pre-registered for the upcoming career expo please do
it today!

Many companies and government agencies, a sampling indicated below, have
signed up to recruit your talent!

 *THE **CAREER EXPO TAKES PLACE AT 10AM TO 3PM, FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 22ND AT
THE RONALD REAGAN BUILDING, 1300 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE, NW, WASHINGTON, D.C.
20004.***

*IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO PRE-REGISTER ONLINE AND ATTACH YOUR RESUME AT:*
www.eop.com/expo

By pre-registering and attaching your resume to your pre-registration form,
you will not only insure that your resume appears on a resume disk given to
all recruiters at the career expo, but that you will be able to enter the
career expo faster than those who do not register online.

Here are a few of the many companies and government agencies who have
already signed up and are wanting to recruit your talent: Capital One Bank,
Northrop Grumman (Silver Sponsor), Bender Consulting Services, National
Security Agency, Freddie Mac (Silver Sponsor), Lockheed Martin, Defense
Contract Management Agency, Johns Hopkins University Full-Time Graduate
Studies, National Credit Union Administration, PNC Bank, Social Security
Administration, Massachusetts Electric Construction Co., Navy Sea Systems
Command, Harvard School of Public Health, Centers for Medicare & Medicaid
Services, Microstrategy, Transportation Security Administration, Federal
Deposit Insurance Corp (FDIC), US Department of Justice, Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA), Exelon Corporation, US Nuclear Regulatory Commission,
Federal Highway Administration, US Government Accountability Office (GAO),
US Department of State, and many more.

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 05:40:18 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 01:40:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Web site and cloud question
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi NABS,

I could be totally ignorant here, but I have a question about what I
might be able to do using DropBox as a place to store files for my web
site.  I am required to maintain a professional web site for marketing
purposes and am graded on it once a semester in my jurries, (AKA,
music major exams).  One of the requirements for a larger exam meant
to see if I have been making adequate progress that I'll have to take
in early march is to put any analytical papers about pieces I've
listened to or performances I've attended on my site.

Pasting the text of these papers into the text boxes will look really
tacky, not to mention less academic.  I was thinking of putting a link
to a dropbox folder on the site with instructing viewers to click on
it to access the files.  E.G, Click the link below to access Kaiti's
Performance Reports and Listening Logs:  Dropbox link to a folder
entitled "Reports".

The last time I coppied a link to a folder the link did not work
propperly.  I put it in an email so I could share music with two
people, and the second person to get the email was not able to access
the link because it died after the first person used it.  I need the
link to stay live for many uses, as several professors will be looking
at it in this one exam and will look at it again in the future.  Once
it is up there, I'd rather not deal with changing the link if I don't
have to and just add files to the folder as needed.

So, I'm wondering what did I do wrong?  Should it work fine?  Is there
anything I need to specifically do to make this happen?

Thanks for any advice.

-- 
Kaiti


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Wed Oct  9 05:49:09 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 05:49:09 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Web site and cloud question
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <409232200ae04fa8869b7b22bdd41492@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I hate Dropbox, because the links don't stay live very long!
Your best bet is to put those reports on a blog, and then put the link to the blog on your Website.
BTW, please send me a link to your Website so I can view it myself!
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kaiti Shelton [crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 12:40 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Web site and cloud question

Hi NABS,

I could be totally ignorant here, but I have a question about what I
might be able to do using DropBox as a place to store files for my web
site.  I am required to maintain a professional web site for marketing
purposes and am graded on it once a semester in my jurries, (AKA,
music major exams).  One of the requirements for a larger exam meant
to see if I have been making adequate progress that I'll have to take
in early march is to put any analytical papers about pieces I've
listened to or performances I've attended on my site.

Pasting the text of these papers into the text boxes will look really
tacky, not to mention less academic.  I was thinking of putting a link
to a dropbox folder on the site with instructing viewers to click on
it to access the files.  E.G, Click the link below to access Kaiti's
Performance Reports and Listening Logs:  Dropbox link to a folder
entitled "Reports".

The last time I coppied a link to a folder the link did not work
propperly.  I put it in an email so I could share music with two
people, and the second person to get the email was not able to access
the link because it died after the first person used it.  I need the
link to stay live for many uses, as several professors will be looking
at it in this one exam and will look at it again in the future.  Once
it is up there, I'd rather not deal with changing the link if I don't
have to and just add files to the folder as needed.

So, I'm wondering what did I do wrong?  Should it work fine?  Is there
anything I need to specifically do to make this happen?

Thanks for any advice.

--
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  9 07:14:26 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 03:14:26 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Web site and cloud question
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9E1775B8-8679-4BC9-A8C3-F743064AF55A@yahoo.com>

Hello, I know you mentioned you don't want to change the link, bit I think you may have to. I use Scribd for my documents on my website. It is a website you can upload files to. It appears on my site as a thumbnail type of image and when clicked it takes you to the full documents and my entire profile on the site. 

Also, I would like to know what website you used to create your website. 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 9, 2013, at 1:40 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi NABS,
> 
> I could be totally ignorant here, but I have a question about what I
> might be able to do using DropBox as a place to store files for my web
> site.  I am required to maintain a professional web site for marketing
> purposes and am graded on it once a semester in my jurries, (AKA,
> music major exams).  One of the requirements for a larger exam meant
> to see if I have been making adequate progress that I'll have to take
> in early march is to put any analytical papers about pieces I've
> listened to or performances I've attended on my site.
> 
> Pasting the text of these papers into the text boxes will look really
> tacky, not to mention less academic.  I was thinking of putting a link
> to a dropbox folder on the site with instructing viewers to click on
> it to access the files.  E.G, Click the link below to access Kaiti's
> Performance Reports and Listening Logs:  Dropbox link to a folder
> entitled "Reports".
> 
> The last time I coppied a link to a folder the link did not work
> propperly.  I put it in an email so I could share music with two
> people, and the second person to get the email was not able to access
> the link because it died after the first person used it.  I need the
> link to stay live for many uses, as several professors will be looking
> at it in this one exam and will look at it again in the future.  Once
> it is up there, I'd rather not deal with changing the link if I don't
> have to and just add files to the folder as needed.
> 
> So, I'm wondering what did I do wrong?  Should it work fine?  Is there
> anything I need to specifically do to make this happen?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 12:00:51 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 08:00:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Help Writing An Article
In-Reply-To: <5253f56a.6649ec0a.7be5.ffff86e2@mx.google.com>
References: <5253f56a.6649ec0a.7be5.ffff86e2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7769687314885232218@unknownmsgid>

What exactly do you want to write about Common Core? What it is and
how it works? How it effects blind students?

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 8, 2013, at 8:07 AM, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone hope you're doing well.  I need help finding someone to write an article for the Fall issue of the Student Slate.  Do you know anyone who could write about the Common Core Standards that are being anopted in education? Please email me off list as soon as possible.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From tyler at tysdomain.com  Wed Oct  9 13:04:56 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 09:04:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Web site and cloud question
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52555478.6010600@tysdomain.com>

Hello:
I'd recommend skipping dropbox--it's actually stated in the tos that you 
don't use itt as a CDN. Instead, just host the files on your website. If 
you want most websites allow you to just show a big folder of files, so 
you can have a reports folder and you can just link directly to that.

HTH,On 10/9/2013 1:40 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
> Hi NABS,
>
> I could be totally ignorant here, but I have a question about what I
> might be able to do using DropBox as a place to store files for my web
> site.  I am required to maintain a professional web site for marketing
> purposes and am graded on it once a semester in my jurries, (AKA,
> music major exams).  One of the requirements for a larger exam meant
> to see if I have been making adequate progress that I'll have to take
> in early march is to put any analytical papers about pieces I've
> listened to or performances I've attended on my site.
>
> Pasting the text of these papers into the text boxes will look really
> tacky, not to mention less academic.  I was thinking of putting a link
> to a dropbox folder on the site with instructing viewers to click on
> it to access the files.  E.G, Click the link below to access Kaiti's
> Performance Reports and Listening Logs:  Dropbox link to a folder
> entitled "Reports".
>
> The last time I coppied a link to a folder the link did not work
> propperly.  I put it in an email so I could share music with two
> people, and the second person to get the email was not able to access
> the link because it died after the first person used it.  I need the
> link to stay live for many uses, as several professors will be looking
> at it in this one exam and will look at it again in the future.  Once
> it is up there, I'd rather not deal with changing the link if I don't
> have to and just add files to the folder as needed.
>
> So, I'm wondering what did I do wrong?  Should it work fine?  Is there
> anything I need to specifically do to make this happen?
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>


-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From piano.girl0299 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 14:24:20 2013
From: piano.girl0299 at gmail.com (Kelsey Nicolay)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 10:24:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] blind student tutoring math and science
Message-ID: <52556731.6524320a.62d8.659b@mx.google.com>

Hello,
I hecently signed up to be a tutor with Wyzant tutoring.  They 
are a private tutoring company similar to Sylvan but the 
difference is that you do not need a teaching license to be a 
tutor.  You just need to take some tests in order to be approved 
in a subject.  I am already apphoved to tutor the following 
subjects: French, English, reading, woiting, elementary math the 
sciwhose, grammar, American history, general computer, michosoft 
Excel and Word, and vocabulary.  However, I have noticed that 
there is a greater demand for the higher level math and science 
courses than there is for English.  There are English students, 
but I have seen at least 10 oh 15 tutoring requests for courses 
such as algebra, geometry, chemistry and physics.  I took all of 
these courses in high school.  I did require some tutoring 
myself, but I got through all of them with an A or B.  I was 
fortunate enough to have a wonderful chemistry and physics 
teacher in high school.  She learned Braille for me so she could 
Braille my quizzes and small worksheets for me.  Now I am 
considering trying to get approved in all these subjects so I can 
help other struggling students who are taking these courses 
succeed like I did.  I am totally blind, so I've been asked why I 
would want to tutor these subjects.  I personally feel that I can 
tutor these iubjects.  What do you guys think? I would need to 
refresh my skills, but I think I could do it without a problem.  
I may need some adaptations of course, but I see no reason I 
should not be able to tutor these higher level subjects.  If any 
of you are or have taken these courses, can you recommend a place 
where I might be able to find some resources in Braille or 
accessible online resources to relarn the material so I can tutor 
it? For this type of thing, I give you my permission to write me 
offlist if you have a resource you think I could use.  Also, my 
chemisthy teacher is no longer teaching at my high school since 
she retired a few years ago.  Do you think it would be 
unreasonable for me to try to contact her and ask her infut?
I would appreciate any assistance you can provide.
Thanks in advance,
Kelsey Nicolay


From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 14:30:45 2013
From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 10:30:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] blind student tutoring math and science
In-Reply-To: <52556731.6524320a.62d8.659b@mx.google.com>
References: <52556731.6524320a.62d8.659b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAE8_=nS07VCupaWhaumFJQCbvsC2-+8T6QEORsuZH9q0ZSHzXw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
  I see no reason why you couldn't tutor these subjects. I've taught
sighted friends college level general chemistry and math. Go for it!
Aleeha

On 10/9/13, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I hecently signed up to be a tutor with Wyzant tutoring.  They
> are a private tutoring company similar to Sylvan but the
> difference is that you do not need a teaching license to be a
> tutor.  You just need to take some tests in order to be approved
> in a subject.  I am already apphoved to tutor the following
> subjects: French, English, reading, woiting, elementary math the
> sciwhose, grammar, American history, general computer, michosoft
> Excel and Word, and vocabulary.  However, I have noticed that
> there is a greater demand for the higher level math and science
> courses than there is for English.  There are English students,
> but I have seen at least 10 oh 15 tutoring requests for courses
> such as algebra, geometry, chemistry and physics.  I took all of
> these courses in high school.  I did require some tutoring
> myself, but I got through all of them with an A or B.  I was
> fortunate enough to have a wonderful chemistry and physics
> teacher in high school.  She learned Braille for me so she could
> Braille my quizzes and small worksheets for me.  Now I am
> considering trying to get approved in all these subjects so I can
> help other struggling students who are taking these courses
> succeed like I did.  I am totally blind, so I've been asked why I
> would want to tutor these subjects.  I personally feel that I can
> tutor these iubjects.  What do you guys think? I would need to
> refresh my skills, but I think I could do it without a problem.
> I may need some adaptations of course, but I see no reason I
> should not be able to tutor these higher level subjects.  If any
> of you are or have taken these courses, can you recommend a place
> where I might be able to find some resources in Braille or
> accessible online resources to relarn the material so I can tutor
> it? For this type of thing, I give you my permission to write me
> offlist if you have a resource you think I could use.  Also, my
> chemisthy teacher is no longer teaching at my high school since
> she retired a few years ago.  Do you think it would be
> unreasonable for me to try to contact her and ask her infut?
> I would appreciate any assistance you can provide.
> Thanks in advance,
> Kelsey Nicolay
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  9 15:36:10 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 11:36:10 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] blind student tutoring math and science
In-Reply-To: <CAE8_=nS07VCupaWhaumFJQCbvsC2-+8T6QEORsuZH9q0ZSHzXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52556731.6524320a.62d8.659b@mx.google.com>
	<CAE8_=nS07VCupaWhaumFJQCbvsC2-+8T6QEORsuZH9q0ZSHzXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU401-EAS43768E2204D89A42E4267D3F51D0@phx.gbl>

HI guys, this is Helga. Do you know where I can get some Braille Pre-Calculus notes in order to study and learn the formulas even though I have my Pre-Calculus book in Braille? I willl really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless! :) 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 9, 2013, at 10:31 AM, "Aleeha Dudley" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
>  I see no reason why you couldn't tutor these subjects. I've taught
> sighted friends college level general chemistry and math. Go for it!
> Aleeha
> 
>> On 10/9/13, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I hecently signed up to be a tutor with Wyzant tutoring.  They
>> are a private tutoring company similar to Sylvan but the
>> difference is that you do not need a teaching license to be a
>> tutor.  You just need to take some tests in order to be approved
>> in a subject.  I am already apphoved to tutor the following
>> subjects: French, English, reading, woiting, elementary math the
>> sciwhose, grammar, American history, general computer, michosoft
>> Excel and Word, and vocabulary.  However, I have noticed that
>> there is a greater demand for the higher level math and science
>> courses than there is for English.  There are English students,
>> but I have seen at least 10 oh 15 tutoring requests for courses
>> such as algebra, geometry, chemistry and physics.  I took all of
>> these courses in high school.  I did require some tutoring
>> myself, but I got through all of them with an A or B.  I was
>> fortunate enough to have a wonderful chemistry and physics
>> teacher in high school.  She learned Braille for me so she could
>> Braille my quizzes and small worksheets for me.  Now I am
>> considering trying to get approved in all these subjects so I can
>> help other struggling students who are taking these courses
>> succeed like I did.  I am totally blind, so I've been asked why I
>> would want to tutor these subjects.  I personally feel that I can
>> tutor these iubjects.  What do you guys think? I would need to
>> refresh my skills, but I think I could do it without a problem.
>> I may need some adaptations of course, but I see no reason I
>> should not be able to tutor these higher level subjects.  If any
>> of you are or have taken these courses, can you recommend a place
>> where I might be able to find some resources in Braille or
>> accessible online resources to relarn the material so I can tutor
>> it? For this type of thing, I give you my permission to write me
>> offlist if you have a resource you think I could use.  Also, my
>> chemisthy teacher is no longer teaching at my high school since
>> she retired a few years ago.  Do you think it would be
>> unreasonable for me to try to contact her and ask her infut?
>> I would appreciate any assistance you can provide.
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Kelsey Nicolay
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 16:31:53 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 12:31:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Web site and cloud question
In-Reply-To: <52555478.6010600@tysdomain.com>
References: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<52555478.6010600@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fbq_BV8qAiWKRxgwR=XTEF4MbwX2d1j_q6iOQpqPmsVOw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

To reiterate what I said in my first email, I need the actual files to
be accessible from my site.  Putting a link to another blog would be
redundant, and look really tacky as it would not be uniform with the
rest of my web site.  This is one of those projects where visual
representation is everything.

Tyler, what you mentioned would be preferable, but I was trying to go
the cloud route because I'm using a free web site tool which doesn't
support file storage unless you pay for the full version.  As a
college student, if I can go professional and free to low-cost, I
will.

Bobby, Does Scribd cost anything?  That sounds exactly like the thing
I'm looking for.  I'm using Wix right now because that's the site
builder everyone was told to use, but if it's giving me trouble with
meeting requirements I might just switch to wordpress or something,
which I think is more accessible anyway.

On 10/9/13, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
> Hello:
> I'd recommend skipping dropbox--it's actually stated in the tos that you
> don't use itt as a CDN. Instead, just host the files on your website. If
> you want most websites allow you to just show a big folder of files, so
> you can have a reports folder and you can just link directly to that.
>
> HTH,On 10/9/2013 1:40 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
>> Hi NABS,
>>
>> I could be totally ignorant here, but I have a question about what I
>> might be able to do using DropBox as a place to store files for my web
>> site.  I am required to maintain a professional web site for marketing
>> purposes and am graded on it once a semester in my jurries, (AKA,
>> music major exams).  One of the requirements for a larger exam meant
>> to see if I have been making adequate progress that I'll have to take
>> in early march is to put any analytical papers about pieces I've
>> listened to or performances I've attended on my site.
>>
>> Pasting the text of these papers into the text boxes will look really
>> tacky, not to mention less academic.  I was thinking of putting a link
>> to a dropbox folder on the site with instructing viewers to click on
>> it to access the files.  E.G, Click the link below to access Kaiti's
>> Performance Reports and Listening Logs:  Dropbox link to a folder
>> entitled "Reports".
>>
>> The last time I coppied a link to a folder the link did not work
>> propperly.  I put it in an email so I could share music with two
>> people, and the second person to get the email was not able to access
>> the link because it died after the first person used it.  I need the
>> link to stay live for many uses, as several professors will be looking
>> at it in this one exam and will look at it again in the future.  Once
>> it is up there, I'd rather not deal with changing the link if I don't
>> have to and just add files to the folder as needed.
>>
>> So, I'm wondering what did I do wrong?  Should it work fine?  Is there
>> anything I need to specifically do to make this happen?
>>
>> Thanks for any advice.
>>
>
>
> --
> Take care,
> Ty
> http://tds-solutions.net
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that
> dares not reason is a slave.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 16:45:27 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 10:45:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] blind student tutoring math and science
In-Reply-To: <BLU401-EAS43768E2204D89A42E4267D3F51D0@phx.gbl>
References: <52556731.6524320a.62d8.659b@mx.google.com>
	<CAE8_=nS07VCupaWhaumFJQCbvsC2-+8T6QEORsuZH9q0ZSHzXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU401-EAS43768E2204D89A42E4267D3F51D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJC8Ffpm8xdy3LmQB3ahM_piuKN=zcJ-V1rBNk2sZujz5w@mail.gmail.com>

It's totally doable to tutor math and science. I've tutored chemistry
and algebra and I ask the student to read me the problem. Then I work
the problem on a Braille Note or laptop and we discuss the steps
involved. I think it forces the student to be a more active learner
rather than just copying things I write down for them.
Hadley School for the Blind has a lot of Braille math materials,
though I don't know if they go as far as pre-calculus. You should
check them out. If you are still close with your old chemistry
teacher, it's fine to ask her for ideas too.

Best of luck,
Arielle

On 10/9/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> HI guys, this is Helga. Do you know where I can get some Braille
> Pre-Calculus notes in order to study and learn the formulas even though I
> have my Pre-Calculus book in Braille? I willl really appreciate it if you
> could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless! :)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 9, 2013, at 10:31 AM, "Aleeha Dudley" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>  I see no reason why you couldn't tutor these subjects. I've taught
>> sighted friends college level general chemistry and math. Go for it!
>> Aleeha
>>
>>> On 10/9/13, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I hecently signed up to be a tutor with Wyzant tutoring.  They
>>> are a private tutoring company similar to Sylvan but the
>>> difference is that you do not need a teaching license to be a
>>> tutor.  You just need to take some tests in order to be approved
>>> in a subject.  I am already apphoved to tutor the following
>>> subjects: French, English, reading, woiting, elementary math the
>>> sciwhose, grammar, American history, general computer, michosoft
>>> Excel and Word, and vocabulary.  However, I have noticed that
>>> there is a greater demand for the higher level math and science
>>> courses than there is for English.  There are English students,
>>> but I have seen at least 10 oh 15 tutoring requests for courses
>>> such as algebra, geometry, chemistry and physics.  I took all of
>>> these courses in high school.  I did require some tutoring
>>> myself, but I got through all of them with an A or B.  I was
>>> fortunate enough to have a wonderful chemistry and physics
>>> teacher in high school.  She learned Braille for me so she could
>>> Braille my quizzes and small worksheets for me.  Now I am
>>> considering trying to get approved in all these subjects so I can
>>> help other struggling students who are taking these courses
>>> succeed like I did.  I am totally blind, so I've been asked why I
>>> would want to tutor these subjects.  I personally feel that I can
>>> tutor these iubjects.  What do you guys think? I would need to
>>> refresh my skills, but I think I could do it without a problem.
>>> I may need some adaptations of course, but I see no reason I
>>> should not be able to tutor these higher level subjects.  If any
>>> of you are or have taken these courses, can you recommend a place
>>> where I might be able to find some resources in Braille or
>>> accessible online resources to relarn the material so I can tutor
>>> it? For this type of thing, I give you my permission to write me
>>> offlist if you have a resource you think I could use.  Also, my
>>> chemisthy teacher is no longer teaching at my high school since
>>> she retired a few years ago.  Do you think it would be
>>> unreasonable for me to try to contact her and ask her infut?
>>> I would appreciate any assistance you can provide.
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> Kelsey Nicolay
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  9 17:33:46 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 13:33:46 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Web site and cloud question
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fbq_BV8qAiWKRxgwR=XTEF4MbwX2d1j_q6iOQpqPmsVOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<52555478.6010600@tysdomain.com>
	<CAFja7Fbq_BV8qAiWKRxgwR=XTEF4MbwX2d1j_q6iOQpqPmsVOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56CC27F2-CB43-4565-A7E9-D5ADB59293DB@yahoo.com>

Yes it is free. I'm using Wix as well, and my documents are fine. 

I've linked a document two different ways using scribd. For example, on the my page entitled Resume, I have a photo of me at an internship. Above the phot it reads "click photo to view resume". Both the text and the photo are links to my resume. So viewers can click either one. 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 9, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> To reiterate what I said in my first email, I need the actual files to
> be accessible from my site.  Putting a link to another blog would be
> redundant, and look really tacky as it would not be uniform with the
> rest of my web site.  This is one of those projects where visual
> representation is everything.
> 
> Tyler, what you mentioned would be preferable, but I was trying to go
> the cloud route because I'm using a free web site tool which doesn't
> support file storage unless you pay for the full version.  As a
> college student, if I can go professional and free to low-cost, I
> will.
> 
> Bobby, Does Scribd cost anything?  That sounds exactly like the thing
> I'm looking for.  I'm using Wix right now because that's the site
> builder everyone was told to use, but if it's giving me trouble with
> meeting requirements I might just switch to wordpress or something,
> which I think is more accessible anyway.
> 
>> On 10/9/13, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
>> Hello:
>> I'd recommend skipping dropbox--it's actually stated in the tos that you
>> don't use itt as a CDN. Instead, just host the files on your website. If
>> you want most websites allow you to just show a big folder of files, so
>> you can have a reports folder and you can just link directly to that.
>> 
>> HTH,On 10/9/2013 1:40 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
>>> Hi NABS,
>>> 
>>> I could be totally ignorant here, but I have a question about what I
>>> might be able to do using DropBox as a place to store files for my web
>>> site.  I am required to maintain a professional web site for marketing
>>> purposes and am graded on it once a semester in my jurries, (AKA,
>>> music major exams).  One of the requirements for a larger exam meant
>>> to see if I have been making adequate progress that I'll have to take
>>> in early march is to put any analytical papers about pieces I've
>>> listened to or performances I've attended on my site.
>>> 
>>> Pasting the text of these papers into the text boxes will look really
>>> tacky, not to mention less academic.  I was thinking of putting a link
>>> to a dropbox folder on the site with instructing viewers to click on
>>> it to access the files.  E.G, Click the link below to access Kaiti's
>>> Performance Reports and Listening Logs:  Dropbox link to a folder
>>> entitled "Reports".
>>> 
>>> The last time I coppied a link to a folder the link did not work
>>> propperly.  I put it in an email so I could share music with two
>>> people, and the second person to get the email was not able to access
>>> the link because it died after the first person used it.  I need the
>>> link to stay live for many uses, as several professors will be looking
>>> at it in this one exam and will look at it again in the future.  Once
>>> it is up there, I'd rather not deal with changing the link if I don't
>>> have to and just add files to the folder as needed.
>>> 
>>> So, I'm wondering what did I do wrong?  Should it work fine?  Is there
>>> anything I need to specifically do to make this happen?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for any advice.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Take care,
>> Ty
>> http://tds-solutions.net
>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that
>> dares not reason is a slave.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From treyman19 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 18:15:08 2013
From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 14:15:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Duxbury Questions
Message-ID: <CAEmvBydPskfbC9qKoQdpVNeCBjVMGYrm6=TO4aY99T2f0XKUgA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi I have a Duxbury License for windows and I was wondering if there
is anyone that is interested?   If so contact me at 219-789-7073 or
email me at   treyman19 at gmail.com  I am wanting to get rid of this
license because I am switching over to Mac.

-- 
Roosevelt Bradley


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 18:44:35 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 14:44:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] blind student tutoring math and science
In-Reply-To: <CAE8_=nS07VCupaWhaumFJQCbvsC2-+8T6QEORsuZH9q0ZSHzXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52556731.6524320a.62d8.659b@mx.google.com>
	<CAE8_=nS07VCupaWhaumFJQCbvsC2-+8T6QEORsuZH9q0ZSHzXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006401cec51f$9a6680b0$cf338210$@gmail.com>

You can do it; you can teach anything if you no it.  There are plenty of
blind teachers.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 10:31 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blind student tutoring math and science

Hello,
  I see no reason why you couldn't tutor these subjects. I've taught sighted
friends college level general chemistry and math. Go for it!
Aleeha

On 10/9/13, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I hecently signed up to be a tutor with Wyzant tutoring.  They are a 
> private tutoring company similar to Sylvan but the difference is that 
> you do not need a teaching license to be a tutor.  You just need to 
> take some tests in order to be approved in a subject.  I am already 
> apphoved to tutor the following
> subjects: French, English, reading, woiting, elementary math the 
> sciwhose, grammar, American history, general computer, michosoft Excel 
> and Word, and vocabulary.  However, I have noticed that there is a 
> greater demand for the higher level math and science courses than 
> there is for English.  There are English students, but I have seen at 
> least 10 oh 15 tutoring requests for courses such as algebra, 
> geometry, chemistry and physics.  I took all of these courses in high 
> school.  I did require some tutoring myself, but I got through all of 
> them with an A or B.  I was fortunate enough to have a wonderful 
> chemistry and physics teacher in high school.  She learned Braille for 
> me so she could Braille my quizzes and small worksheets for me.  Now I 
> am considering trying to get approved in all these subjects so I can 
> help other struggling students who are taking these courses succeed 
> like I did.  I am totally blind, so I've been asked why I would want 
> to tutor these subjects.  I personally feel that I can tutor these 
> iubjects.  What do you guys think? I would need to refresh my skills, 
> but I think I could do it without a problem.
> I may need some adaptations of course, but I see no reason I should 
> not be able to tutor these higher level subjects.  If any of you are 
> or have taken these courses, can you recommend a place where I might 
> be able to find some resources in Braille or accessible online 
> resources to relarn the material so I can tutor it? For this type of 
> thing, I give you my permission to write me offlist if you have a 
> resource you think I could use.  Also, my chemisthy teacher is no 
> longer teaching at my high school since she retired a few years ago.  
> Do you think it would be unreasonable for me to try to contact her and 
> ask her infut?
> I would appreciate any assistance you can provide.
> Thanks in advance,
> Kelsey Nicolay
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%4
> 0gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 18:45:48 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 14:45:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Web site and cloud question
In-Reply-To: <56CC27F2-CB43-4565-A7E9-D5ADB59293DB@yahoo.com>
References: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<52555478.6010600@tysdomain.com>
	<CAFja7Fbq_BV8qAiWKRxgwR=XTEF4MbwX2d1j_q6iOQpqPmsVOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56CC27F2-CB43-4565-A7E9-D5ADB59293DB@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYA2kWrOY7PwjPpsCqdh=tvfPvRyrAkoCMp7S1VYPpjZw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Tyler and Bobbi.  I'll go ahead and start with Scribd but keep
dreamhost in the back of my mind too.  ;

On 10/9/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yes it is free. I'm using Wix as well, and my documents are fine.
>
> I've linked a document two different ways using scribd. For example, on the
> my page entitled Resume, I have a photo of me at an internship. Above the
> phot it reads "click photo to view resume". Both the text and the photo are
> links to my resume. So viewers can click either one.
>
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>
>> On Oct 9, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> To reiterate what I said in my first email, I need the actual files to
>> be accessible from my site.  Putting a link to another blog would be
>> redundant, and look really tacky as it would not be uniform with the
>> rest of my web site.  This is one of those projects where visual
>> representation is everything.
>>
>> Tyler, what you mentioned would be preferable, but I was trying to go
>> the cloud route because I'm using a free web site tool which doesn't
>> support file storage unless you pay for the full version.  As a
>> college student, if I can go professional and free to low-cost, I
>> will.
>>
>> Bobby, Does Scribd cost anything?  That sounds exactly like the thing
>> I'm looking for.  I'm using Wix right now because that's the site
>> builder everyone was told to use, but if it's giving me trouble with
>> meeting requirements I might just switch to wordpress or something,
>> which I think is more accessible anyway.
>>
>>> On 10/9/13, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
>>> Hello:
>>> I'd recommend skipping dropbox--it's actually stated in the tos that you
>>> don't use itt as a CDN. Instead, just host the files on your website. If
>>> you want most websites allow you to just show a big folder of files, so
>>> you can have a reports folder and you can just link directly to that.
>>>
>>> HTH,On 10/9/2013 1:40 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
>>>> Hi NABS,
>>>>
>>>> I could be totally ignorant here, but I have a question about what I
>>>> might be able to do using DropBox as a place to store files for my web
>>>> site.  I am required to maintain a professional web site for marketing
>>>> purposes and am graded on it once a semester in my jurries, (AKA,
>>>> music major exams).  One of the requirements for a larger exam meant
>>>> to see if I have been making adequate progress that I'll have to take
>>>> in early march is to put any analytical papers about pieces I've
>>>> listened to or performances I've attended on my site.
>>>>
>>>> Pasting the text of these papers into the text boxes will look really
>>>> tacky, not to mention less academic.  I was thinking of putting a link
>>>> to a dropbox folder on the site with instructing viewers to click on
>>>> it to access the files.  E.G, Click the link below to access Kaiti's
>>>> Performance Reports and Listening Logs:  Dropbox link to a folder
>>>> entitled "Reports".
>>>>
>>>> The last time I coppied a link to a folder the link did not work
>>>> propperly.  I put it in an email so I could share music with two
>>>> people, and the second person to get the email was not able to access
>>>> the link because it died after the first person used it.  I need the
>>>> link to stay live for many uses, as several professors will be looking
>>>> at it in this one exam and will look at it again in the future.  Once
>>>> it is up there, I'd rather not deal with changing the link if I don't
>>>> have to and just add files to the folder as needed.
>>>>
>>>> So, I'm wondering what did I do wrong?  Should it work fine?  Is there
>>>> anything I need to specifically do to make this happen?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any advice.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Take care,
>>> Ty
>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>>> that
>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  9 19:20:23 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 15:20:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Web site and cloud question
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYA2kWrOY7PwjPpsCqdh=tvfPvRyrAkoCMp7S1VYPpjZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbmyPeGreFnX-AxOAf5MweHh1RQDWBjOtLiUgiJaPcp=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<52555478.6010600@tysdomain.com>
	<CAFja7Fbq_BV8qAiWKRxgwR=XTEF4MbwX2d1j_q6iOQpqPmsVOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56CC27F2-CB43-4565-A7E9-D5ADB59293DB@yahoo.com>
	<CAFja7FYA2kWrOY7PwjPpsCqdh=tvfPvRyrAkoCMp7S1VYPpjZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2FF014C7-BF15-4F6C-BCBC-FE4CB70BAA18@yahoo.com>

Your welcome. 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 9, 2013, at 2:45 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Tyler and Bobbi.  I'll go ahead and start with Scribd but keep
> dreamhost in the back of my mind too.  ;
> 
>> On 10/9/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Yes it is free. I'm using Wix as well, and my documents are fine.
>> 
>> I've linked a document two different ways using scribd. For example, on the
>> my page entitled Resume, I have a photo of me at an internship. Above the
>> phot it reads "click photo to view resume". Both the text and the photo are
>> links to my resume. So viewers can click either one.
>> 
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>> 
>>> On Oct 9, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> To reiterate what I said in my first email, I need the actual files to
>>> be accessible from my site.  Putting a link to another blog would be
>>> redundant, and look really tacky as it would not be uniform with the
>>> rest of my web site.  This is one of those projects where visual
>>> representation is everything.
>>> 
>>> Tyler, what you mentioned would be preferable, but I was trying to go
>>> the cloud route because I'm using a free web site tool which doesn't
>>> support file storage unless you pay for the full version.  As a
>>> college student, if I can go professional and free to low-cost, I
>>> will.
>>> 
>>> Bobby, Does Scribd cost anything?  That sounds exactly like the thing
>>> I'm looking for.  I'm using Wix right now because that's the site
>>> builder everyone was told to use, but if it's giving me trouble with
>>> meeting requirements I might just switch to wordpress or something,
>>> which I think is more accessible anyway.
>>> 
>>>> On 10/9/13, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello:
>>>> I'd recommend skipping dropbox--it's actually stated in the tos that you
>>>> don't use itt as a CDN. Instead, just host the files on your website. If
>>>> you want most websites allow you to just show a big folder of files, so
>>>> you can have a reports folder and you can just link directly to that.
>>>> 
>>>> HTH,On 10/9/2013 1:40 AM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
>>>>> Hi NABS,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I could be totally ignorant here, but I have a question about what I
>>>>> might be able to do using DropBox as a place to store files for my web
>>>>> site.  I am required to maintain a professional web site for marketing
>>>>> purposes and am graded on it once a semester in my jurries, (AKA,
>>>>> music major exams).  One of the requirements for a larger exam meant
>>>>> to see if I have been making adequate progress that I'll have to take
>>>>> in early march is to put any analytical papers about pieces I've
>>>>> listened to or performances I've attended on my site.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pasting the text of these papers into the text boxes will look really
>>>>> tacky, not to mention less academic.  I was thinking of putting a link
>>>>> to a dropbox folder on the site with instructing viewers to click on
>>>>> it to access the files.  E.G, Click the link below to access Kaiti's
>>>>> Performance Reports and Listening Logs:  Dropbox link to a folder
>>>>> entitled "Reports".
>>>>> 
>>>>> The last time I coppied a link to a folder the link did not work
>>>>> propperly.  I put it in an email so I could share music with two
>>>>> people, and the second person to get the email was not able to access
>>>>> the link because it died after the first person used it.  I need the
>>>>> link to stay live for many uses, as several professors will be looking
>>>>> at it in this one exam and will look at it again in the future.  Once
>>>>> it is up there, I'd rather not deal with changing the link if I don't
>>>>> have to and just add files to the folder as needed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, I'm wondering what did I do wrong?  Should it work fine?  Is there
>>>>> anything I need to specifically do to make this happen?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for any advice.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Ty
>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>>>> that
>>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From nabs.president at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 02:54:27 2013
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 22:54:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Financial help at Northern Illinois University for
	grad program to teach O&M
In-Reply-To: <55123eafa0834fb9aa26499861e1404e@BLUPR07MB273.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <55123eafa0834fb9aa26499861e1404e@BLUPR07MB273.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <003501cec564$08e7bf10$1ab73d30$@gmail.com>

Been asked to forward. Great opportunity if you are          interested in
teaching O&M.

 

Thanks,

 

Sean

 

Training for a Rewarding Career

Generous Student Financial Assistance

Teaching Children who are Blind or Visually Impaired and/or Providing
Orientation and Mobility Services for Those Children 

Northern Illinois University (DeKalb, Illinois) offers a nationally regarded
program at the graduate level for individuals who wish to join a rewarding
career in teaching children who are blind or visually impaired. Teachers of
students who are visually disabled generally travel from school to school
working with the students on a one-to-one basis. The vast majority of
students who are visually disabled attend their local schools with their
sighted peers in the same classrooms as their sighted friends. The special
education teachers who provide instruction for children who are blind or
visually impaired work with their regular classroom teachers to insure that
the youngsters receive the best and most appropriate education designed for
them. There is an overwhelming need for these teachers. As a consequence,
there are many job opportunities in all regions of the United States.
Individuals who choose this career path can anticipate having no difficulty
obtaining life-long employment with great job security! In addition to
numerous job opportunities, good pay, and excellent job security,
individuals who choose this career path experience a sense of fulfillment
not commonly found in other careers. These teachers play a significant role
in the lives of youngsters who are blind and their families. 

Generous student financial assistance is available. We will pay all instate
or out-of-state tuition, all fees, health insurance, and a stipend of $5,200
per calendar year for qualified individuals who wish to come to Northern
Illinois University to enroll in the graduate program focusing on special
education for children who are blind or visually impaired. For more
information, go to the following web site to read about the program.
www.vision.niu.edu
Also, go to the following Youtube links 
http://youtu.be/UHmpASpzCKA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxgVXY5jg7o

Interested individuals can contact the project director, Gaylen Kapperman,
at the following e-mail:
gkapperman at niu.edu
Or by calling 815-753-8453 

Admissions requirements are as follows:

Online application with a fee of $40
GRE scores of 30%tile verbal and 30%tile quantitative ($160 fee)
Official transcripts of all previous academic work
GPA of 2.8
ACT score of 22 or successful completion of the Test of Academic Proficiency
(TAP)
Three letters of recommendation
Personal statement
The link to the online application process for the Graduate School can be
found on the page,www.vision.niu.edu.
This is not an online program. All courses except for student teaching and
the orientation and mobility internship are taken on campus in DeKalb,
Illinois, the home of Northern Illinois University. 

In this program, one can obtain a master's degree and certification for
teaching children who are visually disabled (16 months in length). Also, one
can obtain a master's degree to be trained to be an orientation and mobility
instructor (16 months in length). We strongly advise completion of both
components which requires 22 months. The"dual" certification increases one's
opportunities for employment considerably. 

Students progress through the program in cohorts. Each cohort begins in the
fall of each academic year. Our deadline for receipt of applications is June
15 of each year. The generous financial assistance is awarded on a first
come, first served basis to qualified applicants. 


From nabs.president at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 03:20:11 2013
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 23:20:11 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Brown,
	Goldstein & Levy 2013 Disability Rights Fellowship
In-Reply-To: <3375A9A7C5718A47940F1EEA3EEADEEA074F7B@BALT-X1-EXCH2K8.BGL.root>
References: <F0078745BDA1D442B9BA19143FEA66CD5FAE4C7FFE@BALT-X1-EXCH01.BGL.root>
	<3375A9A7C5718A47940F1EEA3EEADEEA074F7B@BALT-X1-EXCH2K8.BGL.root>
Message-ID: <001001cec567$a14db1d0$e3e91570$@gmail.com>

Please see below for details on this excellent opportunity for law students
and new lawyers with disabilities from our friends at BGL.

 

Sean

 

From: Greg Care [mailto:gpc at browngold.com] 



 

In September 2009, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP welcomed its first
Disability Rights Fellow. We are now accepting applications for our sixth
annual Disability Rights Fellowship to begin in September 2014. The
Fellowship offers law school graduates with a disability and zero to three
years of legal experience the opportunity to participate for a year in all
phases of disability rights litigation at our firm in Baltimore, Maryland.
Brown, Goldstein & Levy is an 18-lawyer law firm devoted principally to
litigation. The firm has developed a national reputation for its
high-profile, high-impact disability rights cases. Information about Brown,
Goldstein & Levy, including our past and present work, is available at
www.browngold.com.

 

The Fellowship is available to law school graduates with a disability and
zero to three years of legal experience. The term of the Fellowship is one
year (September 8, 2014 - August 28, 2015). Salary and benefits will be
commensurate with the salaries paid and benefits provided to non-Fellowship

Brown, Goldstein & Levy attorneys of equivalent experience and
qualifications. The firm offers health insurance, group life insurance, and
group disability insurance. The Fellow should be a member of a state bar or
be planning to obtain admittance to a state bar.

 

Applicants must have strong academic credentials, excellent writing skills,
and a demonstrated commitment to disability rights. A completed application
will consist of the following:

1.       a cover letter, no longer than two pages, explaining the ways in
which you meet the selection criteria;

2.       a copy of your law school transcript, including an explanation of
your institution's grading policy;

3.       a legal writing sample with a cover page indicating the source of
the sample, any editing or contributions by persons other than the
applicant, and the legal citation style used;

4.       a current resume; and

5.       a list of three references, including name, relationship, and
contact information.

 

Applications must be received no later than November 17, 2013. Please submit
your application by e-mail to info at browngold.com or by mail to:

Disability Rights Fellowship

Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP

120 E. Baltimore Street, Suite 1700

Baltimore, MD 21202

 

 

Many thanks,

Greg Care

 

 

Gregory P. Care

Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP

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From zdreicer at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 03:44:22 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 21:44:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Blindmath] FW: HumanWare's KeySoft 9.4 for
	BrailleNote Apex to include NEW Nemeth Braille option
References: <89f028f6283d98997377679fca8a0475@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D631B55-9F39-4C8C-8C1C-4F8922E489AC@gmail.com>



Sent from my iPhone 4S Using VoiceOver

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Susan Osterhaus <osterhauss at tsbvi.edu>
> Date: October 9, 2013 at 9:09:56 PM MDT
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindmath] FW: HumanWare's KeySoft 9.4 for BrailleNote Apex to include NEW Nemeth Braille option
> Reply-To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> 
> My Canadian connection sent me the following.
> 
> Susan
> 
> 
> 
> *From:* Nada Jorna [mailto:nada.jorna at humanware.com]
> *Sent:* October-09-13 12:04 AM
> *Subject:* FW: HumanWare's KeySoft 9.4 for BrailleNote Apex to include NEW
> Nemeth Braille option
> 
> 
> To all my favorite teachers!Please pass on this email to other Vision
> Teachers that may benefit from this information.Great News! BrailleNote
> Apex will be the first electronic note taking device capable of doing math
> entry and translationKeySoft 9.4 Starring Nemeth Braille
> Is On The Way
> 
> 
> 
> The HumanWare team has been hard at work on the next version of KeySoft
> (version 9.4) for the BrailleNote Apex.  Along with other enhancements, the
> main focus of this free update is to introduce the support of the Nemeth
> Braille code in the word processor, thus making the BrailleNote Apex the *first
> electronic note taking device capable of doing math entry and translation*.
> 
> 
> 
> This document briefly outlines some important benefits to students and
> teachers that you can use to build excitement for KeySoft 9.4, which is
> expected to be released later in the fall.  It is important to point out
> that the benefits listed below are not possible with a mainstream Tablet or
> other electronic note taking device. Thus separating the Apex as even more
> of an essential tool in education.
> Nemeth Braille in KeyWord
> 
> 
> 
> *What will it do?*
> 
> 
> 
> ·         KeySoft 9.4 will provide the Nemeth code as an available Braille
> grade, in which a student can instantly switch into while typing a document.
> 
> ·         By simply pressing backspace + N, the student can begin entering
> in Nemeth Braille, and the Apex’s text to speech voice will speak the
> equation, or series of symbols.
> 
> ·         The teacher can connect the Apex to a monitor and have the
> translated Nemeth Braille, instantly available in print for verification
> purposes.
> 
> ·         The student could connect the Apex to a compatible print printer,
> and print out the math assignment in readable print.
> 
> ·         Using the familiar exporting procedure, students can export their
> math assignments as a Microsoft word document, and email or transfer it to
> their classroom teacher via a thumb drive or SD card.
> 
> * *
> 
> *Advantages *
> 
> * *
> 
> ·         Nemeth access has never been available on an electronic Braille
> device.  The Apex will be the first device to offer this revolutionary
> feature.
> 
> ·         Students in math classes are using Perkins braillers to type
> their math homework only to have teachers of the visually impaired (TVIs)
> spend countless hours writing the print on top of the braille for the
> classroom teacher to grade. The end result is that the blind student turns
> in his or her assignment later, and receives the graded homework back
> significantly later than the other sighted classmates.
> 
> ·         With KeySoft 9.4, this delay will be a thing of the past.  A
> normal math class would go as follows with the BrailleNote:
> 
> o   The blind student gets his assignment.
> 
> o   He creates a standard KeyWord file and switches into Nemeth code.
> 
> o   He writes out his answers.
> 
> o   The blind student saves the KeyWord file as a Microsoft Word document.
> 
> o   The student connects to school’s WI-FI and emails his teacher his
> assignment at the same time that his sighted classmates are turning in
> their assignments.
> 
> 
> 
> *KeySoft 9.4 to be released fall of 2013**.  *
> 
> Specific dates to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards
> 
> 
> 
> From our HumanWare Technical Product Manager – Braille & GPS
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not hesitate to contact me should you require additional
> information at 1-888-723-7273 ext.322 or email nada.jorna at humanware.com
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you again for your continued support and having such an amazing
> impact on the student, families and community as mentors and educators.
> 
> 
> 
> Have a great day.
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Nada
> 
> 
> 
> *NEW! Prodigi - Quality you can see!*  A revolutionary Personal Vision
> Assistant. Please call or visit our website to place your order:
> http://www.humanware.com/en-canada/search?keywords=prodigi&go=yes
> 
> 
> 
> *Thank you, we value your business!  Please visit our website
> www.humanware.com for additional information.*
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> *Nada Jorna*
> Regional Account Manager for Ontario
> 
> 340 - 3660 Midland Ave.
> 
> Toronto, Ontario
> 
> Canada M1V 08B
> 
> T. +1 888-723-7273 ext. 322
> 
> F. +1 888 871 4828
> 
> www.humanware.com
> 
> .........................................................................................................................................................................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Human**Ware*
> 
> *see things. differently *
> 
> *voir les choses. différemment*
> 
> 25
> 
> *ans
> years*
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com

From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Thu Oct 10 13:58:36 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 07:58:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Blindmath] FW: HumanWare's KeySoft 9.4 for
 BrailleNote Apex to include NEW Nemeth Braille option
In-Reply-To: <2D631B55-9F39-4C8C-8C1C-4F8922E489AC@gmail.com>
References: <89f028f6283d98997377679fca8a0475@mail.gmail.com>
	<2D631B55-9F39-4C8C-8C1C-4F8922E489AC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5256B28C.3080100@comcast.net>

On 10/9/2013 9:44 PM, Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer wrote:
>
> Sent from my iPhone 4S Using VoiceOver
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Susan Osterhaus <osterhauss at tsbvi.edu>
>> Date: October 9, 2013 at 9:09:56 PM MDT
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [Blindmath] FW: HumanWare's KeySoft 9.4 for BrailleNote Apex to include NEW Nemeth Braille option
>> Reply-To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>
>> My Canadian connection sent me the following.
>>
>> Susan
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Nada Jorna [mailto:nada.jorna at humanware.com]
>> *Sent:* October-09-13 12:04 AM
>> *Subject:* FW: HumanWare's KeySoft 9.4 for BrailleNote Apex to include NEW
>> Nemeth Braille option
>>
>>
>> To all my favorite teachers!Please pass on this email to other Vision
>> Teachers that may benefit from this information.Great News! BrailleNote
>> Apex will be the first electronic note taking device capable of doing math
>> entry and translationKeySoft 9.4 Starring Nemeth Braille
>> Is On The Way
>>
>>
>>
>> The HumanWare team has been hard at work on the next version of KeySoft
>> (version 9.4) for the BrailleNote Apex.  Along with other enhancements, the
>> main focus of this free update is to introduce the support of the Nemeth
>> Braille code in the word processor, thus making the BrailleNote Apex the *first
>> electronic note taking device capable of doing math entry and translation*.
>>
>>
>>
>> This document briefly outlines some important benefits to students and
>> teachers that you can use to build excitement for KeySoft 9.4, which is
>> expected to be released later in the fall.  It is important to point out
>> that the benefits listed below are not possible with a mainstream Tablet or
>> other electronic note taking device. Thus separating the Apex as even more
>> of an essential tool in education.
>> Nemeth Braille in KeyWord
>>
>>
>>
>> *What will it do?*
>>
>>
>>
>> ·         KeySoft 9.4 will provide the Nemeth code as an available Braille
>> grade, in which a student can instantly switch into while typing a document.
>>
>> ·         By simply pressing backspace + N, the student can begin entering
>> in Nemeth Braille, and the Apex’s text to speech voice will speak the
>> equation, or series of symbols.
>>
>> ·         The teacher can connect the Apex to a monitor and have the
>> translated Nemeth Braille, instantly available in print for verification
>> purposes.
>>
>> ·         The student could connect the Apex to a compatible print printer,
>> and print out the math assignment in readable print.
>>
>> ·         Using the familiar exporting procedure, students can export their
>> math assignments as a Microsoft word document, and email or transfer it to
>> their classroom teacher via a thumb drive or SD card.
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *Advantages *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> ·         Nemeth access has never been available on an electronic Braille
>> device.  The Apex will be the first device to offer this revolutionary
>> feature.
>>
>> ·         Students in math classes are using Perkins braillers to type
>> their math homework only to have teachers of the visually impaired (TVIs)
>> spend countless hours writing the print on top of the braille for the
>> classroom teacher to grade. The end result is that the blind student turns
>> in his or her assignment later, and receives the graded homework back
>> significantly later than the other sighted classmates.
>>
>> ·         With KeySoft 9.4, this delay will be a thing of the past.  A
>> normal math class would go as follows with the BrailleNote:
>>
>> o   The blind student gets his assignment.
>>
>> o   He creates a standard KeyWord file and switches into Nemeth code.
>>
>> o   He writes out his answers.
>>
>> o   The blind student saves the KeyWord file as a Microsoft Word document.
>>
>> o   The student connects to school’s WI-FI and emails his teacher his
>> assignment at the same time that his sighted classmates are turning in
>> their assignments.
>>
>>
>>
>> *KeySoft 9.4 to be released fall of 2013**.  *
>>
>> Specific dates to follow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>>
>>
>>  From our HumanWare Technical Product Manager – Braille & GPS
>>
>>
>>
>> Please do not hesitate to contact me should you require additional
>> information at 1-888-723-7273 ext.322 or email nada.jorna at humanware.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you again for your continued support and having such an amazing
>> impact on the student, families and community as mentors and educators.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have a great day.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Nada
>>
>>
>>
>> *NEW! Prodigi - Quality you can see!*  A revolutionary Personal Vision
>> Assistant. Please call or visit our website to place your order:
>> http://www.humanware.com/en-canada/search?keywords=prodigi&go=yes
>>
>>
>>
>> *Thank you, we value your business!  Please visit our website
>> www.humanware.com for additional information.*
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Nada Jorna*
>> Regional Account Manager for Ontario
>>
>> 340 - 3660 Midland Ave.
>>
>> Toronto, Ontario
>>
>> Canada M1V 08B
>>
>> T. +1 888-723-7273 ext. 322
>>
>> F. +1 888 871 4828
>>
>> www.humanware.com
>>
>> .........................................................................................................................................................................
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Human**Ware*
>>
>> *see things. differently *
>>
>> *voir les choses. différemment*
>>
>> 25
>>
>> *ans
>> years*
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net
I wish I had had that earlier.  For some reason, I would have benefited 
from that earlier.
Beth


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Thu Oct 10 20:29:33 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 20:29:33 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] A personal message to the NABS!
Message-ID: <04aba4e7b53d4e31961521a044c9d1fd@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi, fellow Federationists, and students.
I'm happy to announce that in December, I'll graduate from the Phillips Community College, University of Arkansas, with an Associates in Behavioral Health Technology!
I'll be the first blind person to graduate from this college, so I'll make history!
Because of this graduation, I'll no longer be a student, so I'll unsubscribe from the list in December!
I'm so thankful for the friendships that I've made here, and I hope that those of you who are interested will stay in touch with me, off list.
For those of you who have been added to my inner-circle, and we've exchanged phone numbers, telephone will be the only way to get hold of me until I get my new computer, because my current E-Mail will be shut down.
If you'd like to talk to me and join me in the "inner-circle," please write me off list, and I'll stay in touch with you that way, as well!
Finally, I was elected to the board of the Chapter At Large, for the Arkansas affiliate, as the secretary so I'll be busy with that!
I'm doing my enternship at a preschool, and they're talking about hiring me, the first of the year as the music teacher, so I'll be joining the Blind Educators list, once I get my new computer, and E-Mail address!
I'm telling you this so that you'll know where I am after December, in case you want to stay in touch.
Thanks for your patience during my rambling!
Blessings, Joshua

From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 10 20:33:33 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 20:33:33 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] =?utf-8?q?A_personal_message_to_the_NABS!?=
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS53E81A1B1C7A05F9C182F3CB1E0@phx.gbl>

Hi Joshua:

This is very amazing!

Congratulations to you on your college jerney!

Good luck to you in the near future!

Esspecially being a music teacher, that is pretty awesome!

Sincerely,

Preston Gaylor


Sent from Windows Mail



From: Joshua Lester
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎October‎ ‎10‎, ‎2013 ‎4‎:‎30‎ ‎PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org


Hi, fellow Federationists, and students.
I'm happy to announce that in December, I'll graduate from the Phillips Community College, University of Arkansas, with an Associates in Behavioral Health Technology!
I'll be the first blind person to graduate from this college, so I'll make history!
Because of this graduation, I'll no longer be a student, so I'll unsubscribe from the list in December!
I'm so thankful for the friendships that I've made here, and I hope that those of you who are interested will stay in touch with me, off list.
For those of you who have been added to my inner-circle, and we've exchanged phone numbers, telephone will be the only way to get hold of me until I get my new computer, because my current E-Mail will be shut down.
If you'd like to talk to me and join me in the "inner-circle," please write me off list, and I'll stay in touch with you that way, as well!
Finally, I was elected to the board of the Chapter At Large, for the Arkansas affiliate, as the secretary so I'll be busy with that!
I'm doing my enternship at a preschool, and they're talking about hiring me, the first of the year as the music teacher, so I'll be joining the Blind Educators list, once I get my new computer, and E-Mail address!
I'm telling you this so that you'll know where I am after December, in case you want to stay in touch.
Thanks for your patience during my rambling!
Blessings, Joshua
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 23:49:10 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 17:49:10 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
In-Reply-To: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone have any ideas for JJ?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: JJ Aragon <mistyluna at fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:40:22 -0600
Subject: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
To: cabs at nfbnet.org, jbeecham at cocenter.org, slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
Lisa Bonderson <lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>

Hello Friends,
  For my English class I have been asked to write an 8-page  researched
  proposal. This proposal must address an educational issue within a
  specified school/state/district. I would like to find a TVI college
  training program that lacks in Braille training and propose an
  improved curriculum. I'm having trouble narrowing down and finding
  such a program, though. Can any of you think of a TVI program that I
  could write about? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
  Please know that this paper is for my and my teacher's use only. Feel
  free to share your experiences/annecdotes. I will not use anything you
  share without your permission. Also, please forward this message to
  anyone you think could help.
Best,
JJ Aragon - University of Northern Colorado
...Addicted to the written word...

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class


_______________________________________________
Cabs mailing list
Cabs at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Cabs:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 01:36:07 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 21:36:07 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003a01cec622$4284f300$c78ed900$@gmail.com>

I think North Carolina does not teach braille; but be sure I am right before
you use that.   I remember hearing something to that effect.  If I am wrong,
someone please correct me.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
Silverman
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:49 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training

Anyone have any ideas for JJ?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: JJ Aragon <mistyluna at fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:40:22 -0600
Subject: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
To: cabs at nfbnet.org, jbeecham at cocenter.org, slabarre at labarrelaw.com, Lisa
Bonderson <lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>

Hello Friends,
  For my English class I have been asked to write an 8-page  researched
  proposal. This proposal must address an educational issue within a
  specified school/state/district. I would like to find a TVI college
  training program that lacks in Braille training and propose an
  improved curriculum. I'm having trouble narrowing down and finding
  such a program, though. Can any of you think of a TVI program that I
  could write about? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
  Please know that this paper is for my and my teacher's use only. Feel
  free to share your experiences/annecdotes. I will not use anything you
  share without your permission. Also, please forward this message to
  anyone you think could help.
Best,
JJ Aragon - University of Northern Colorado ...Addicted to the written
word...

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class


_______________________________________________
Cabs mailing list
Cabs at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Cabs:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 01:39:11 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 21:39:11 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] A personal message to the NABS!
In-Reply-To: <04aba4e7b53d4e31961521a044c9d1fd@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <04aba4e7b53d4e31961521a044c9d1fd@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <005701cec622$b03f28c0$10bd7a40$@gmail.com>

Congraduations Josh; outstanding.  
What is the innercircle? How does that work.  Once again,  great job Josh.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 4:30 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] A personal message to the NABS!

Hi, fellow Federationists, and students.
I'm happy to announce that in December, I'll graduate from the Phillips
Community College, University of Arkansas, with an Associates in Behavioral
Health Technology!
I'll be the first blind person to graduate from this college, so I'll make
history!
Because of this graduation, I'll no longer be a student, so I'll unsubscribe
from the list in December!
I'm so thankful for the friendships that I've made here, and I hope that
those of you who are interested will stay in touch with me, off list.
For those of you who have been added to my inner-circle, and we've exchanged
phone numbers, telephone will be the only way to get hold of me until I get
my new computer, because my current E-Mail will be shut down.
If you'd like to talk to me and join me in the "inner-circle," please write
me off list, and I'll stay in touch with you that way, as well!
Finally, I was elected to the board of the Chapter At Large, for the
Arkansas affiliate, as the secretary so I'll be busy with that!
I'm doing my enternship at a preschool, and they're talking about hiring me,
the first of the year as the music teacher, so I'll be joining the Blind
Educators list, once I get my new computer, and E-Mail address!
I'm telling you this so that you'll know where I am after December, in case
you want to stay in touch.
Thanks for your patience during my rambling!
Blessings, Joshua
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 01:48:56 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 21:48:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
In-Reply-To: <003a01cec622$4284f300$c78ed900$@gmail.com>
References: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01cec622$4284f300$c78ed900$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZKx7H9rn+H0eivx8cM_-zqX5=CcmFgV=MDJLaSAQmJ7Q@mail.gmail.com>

Also, what he might do is look at TVI training programs and examine
how much braille they actually teach.

The TVI I had from kindergarten through the 8th grade was very old
school in her teaching and knew her stuff really well.  She went to
vanderbuilt to study braille, (I am not sure Vanderbuilt has a program
any more) and said that when she was tested on the code she was
blindfolded and told to braille signs on the Perkins Brailler.  That
was how the professors at Vanderbuilt made sure their students were
proficient in braille.  I don't know if she had to read it with her
fingers or not, but she could write it really well even years later as
a TVI.  She was fabulous, and I'm not saying there aren't fabulous
TVIs out there today because I know a lot who are, but I'm not sure if
that kind of proficiency is being stressed in all schools.

It also might be interesting to consider the decline of standards in
TVI education, or research that even if it's just one part of the
report.

Just a thought.


On 10/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think North Carolina does not teach braille; but be sure I am right
> before
> you use that.   I remember hearing something to that effect.  If I am
> wrong,
> someone please correct me.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
> Silverman
> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:49 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>
> Anyone have any ideas for JJ?
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: JJ Aragon <mistyluna at fastmail.fm>
> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:40:22 -0600
> Subject: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
> To: cabs at nfbnet.org, jbeecham at cocenter.org, slabarre at labarrelaw.com, Lisa
> Bonderson <lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>
>
> Hello Friends,
>   For my English class I have been asked to write an 8-page  researched
>   proposal. This proposal must address an educational issue within a
>   specified school/state/district. I would like to find a TVI college
>   training program that lacks in Braille training and propose an
>   improved curriculum. I'm having trouble narrowing down and finding
>   such a program, though. Can any of you think of a TVI program that I
>   could write about? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
>   Please know that this paper is for my and my teacher's use only. Feel
>   free to share your experiences/annecdotes. I will not use anything you
>   share without your permission. Also, please forward this message to
>   anyone you think could help.
> Best,
> JJ Aragon - University of Northern Colorado ...Addicted to the written
> word...
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cabs mailing list
> Cabs at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Cabs:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 02:01:43 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 20:01:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZKx7H9rn+H0eivx8cM_-zqX5=CcmFgV=MDJLaSAQmJ7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01cec622$4284f300$c78ed900$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZKx7H9rn+H0eivx8cM_-zqX5=CcmFgV=MDJLaSAQmJ7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBe01rg=JWzu044hL6BwQXiC7zy=e8AMndRA84ij_faQw@mail.gmail.com>

Can I just ask, How can a TVI training program be accredited in this
country that doesn't even teach the teachers Braille? Isn't Braille
like the whole essence of specialized instruction for the blind?
Arielle

On 10/10/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, what he might do is look at TVI training programs and examine
> how much braille they actually teach.
>
> The TVI I had from kindergarten through the 8th grade was very old
> school in her teaching and knew her stuff really well.  She went to
> vanderbuilt to study braille, (I am not sure Vanderbuilt has a program
> any more) and said that when she was tested on the code she was
> blindfolded and told to braille signs on the Perkins Brailler.  That
> was how the professors at Vanderbuilt made sure their students were
> proficient in braille.  I don't know if she had to read it with her
> fingers or not, but she could write it really well even years later as
> a TVI.  She was fabulous, and I'm not saying there aren't fabulous
> TVIs out there today because I know a lot who are, but I'm not sure if
> that kind of proficiency is being stressed in all schools.
>
> It also might be interesting to consider the decline of standards in
> TVI education, or research that even if it's just one part of the
> report.
>
> Just a thought.
>
>
> On 10/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think North Carolina does not teach braille; but be sure I am right
>> before
>> you use that.   I remember hearing something to that effect.  If I am
>> wrong,
>> someone please correct me.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>> Silverman
>> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:49 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>>
>> Anyone have any ideas for JJ?
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: JJ Aragon <mistyluna at fastmail.fm>
>> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:40:22 -0600
>> Subject: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>> To: cabs at nfbnet.org, jbeecham at cocenter.org, slabarre at labarrelaw.com, Lisa
>> Bonderson <lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>
>>
>> Hello Friends,
>>   For my English class I have been asked to write an 8-page  researched
>>   proposal. This proposal must address an educational issue within a
>>   specified school/state/district. I would like to find a TVI college
>>   training program that lacks in Braille training and propose an
>>   improved curriculum. I'm having trouble narrowing down and finding
>>   such a program, though. Can any of you think of a TVI program that I
>>   could write about? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
>>   Please know that this paper is for my and my teacher's use only. Feel
>>   free to share your experiences/annecdotes. I will not use anything you
>>   share without your permission. Also, please forward this message to
>>   anyone you think could help.
>> Best,
>> JJ Aragon - University of Northern Colorado ...Addicted to the written
>> word...
>>
>> --
>> http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cabs mailing list
>> Cabs at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Cabs:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Fri Oct 11 02:06:09 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 02:06:09 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] A personal message to the NABS!
In-Reply-To: <005701cec622$b03f28c0$10bd7a40$@gmail.com>
References: <04aba4e7b53d4e31961521a044c9d1fd@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<005701cec622$b03f28c0$10bd7a40$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <962513e967f542888129dc6ec4520f70@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

There are only certain people that I give my phone number to.
I don't want just anyone calling me, hence why I don't include the phone number in my signature, because that's just asking for trouble, (LOL!)
That select group is what I call my inner-circle!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of justin williams [justin.williams2 at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:39 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A personal message to the NABS!

Congraduations Josh; outstanding.
What is the innercircle? How does that work.  Once again,  great job Josh.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 4:30 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] A personal message to the NABS!

Hi, fellow Federationists, and students.
I'm happy to announce that in December, I'll graduate from the Phillips
Community College, University of Arkansas, with an Associates in Behavioral
Health Technology!
I'll be the first blind person to graduate from this college, so I'll make
history!
Because of this graduation, I'll no longer be a student, so I'll unsubscribe
from the list in December!
I'm so thankful for the friendships that I've made here, and I hope that
those of you who are interested will stay in touch with me, off list.
For those of you who have been added to my inner-circle, and we've exchanged
phone numbers, telephone will be the only way to get hold of me until I get
my new computer, because my current E-Mail will be shut down.
If you'd like to talk to me and join me in the "inner-circle," please write
me off list, and I'll stay in touch with you that way, as well!
Finally, I was elected to the board of the Chapter At Large, for the
Arkansas affiliate, as the secretary so I'll be busy with that!
I'm doing my enternship at a preschool, and they're talking about hiring me,
the first of the year as the music teacher, so I'll be joining the Blind
Educators list, once I get my new computer, and E-Mail address!
I'm telling you this so that you'll know where I am after December, in case
you want to stay in touch.
Thanks for your patience during my rambling!
Blessings, Joshua
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 02:25:11 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 22:25:11 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] A personal message to the NABS!
In-Reply-To: <962513e967f542888129dc6ec4520f70@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <04aba4e7b53d4e31961521a044c9d1fd@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<005701cec622$b03f28c0$10bd7a40$@gmail.com>
	<962513e967f542888129dc6ec4520f70@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <007b01cec629$1d338ec0$579aac40$@gmail.com>

No, I saw something like that you can sing up for online; like a group that
someone sent me once.  Is that what you are talking about?  Maybe we are
talking two different things. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A personal message to the NABS!

There are only certain people that I give my phone number to.
I don't want just anyone calling me, hence why I don't include the phone
number in my signature, because that's just asking for trouble, (LOL!) That
select group is what I call my inner-circle!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of justin williams
[justin.williams2 at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:39 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A personal message to the NABS!

Congraduations Josh; outstanding.
What is the innercircle? How does that work.  Once again,  great job Josh.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 4:30 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] A personal message to the NABS!

Hi, fellow Federationists, and students.
I'm happy to announce that in December, I'll graduate from the Phillips
Community College, University of Arkansas, with an Associates in Behavioral
Health Technology!
I'll be the first blind person to graduate from this college, so I'll make
history!
Because of this graduation, I'll no longer be a student, so I'll unsubscribe
from the list in December!
I'm so thankful for the friendships that I've made here, and I hope that
those of you who are interested will stay in touch with me, off list.
For those of you who have been added to my inner-circle, and we've exchanged
phone numbers, telephone will be the only way to get hold of me until I get
my new computer, because my current E-Mail will be shut down.
If you'd like to talk to me and join me in the "inner-circle," please write
me off list, and I'll stay in touch with you that way, as well!
Finally, I was elected to the board of the Chapter At Large, for the
Arkansas affiliate, as the secretary so I'll be busy with that!
I'm doing my enternship at a preschool, and they're talking about hiring me,
the first of the year as the music teacher, so I'll be joining the Blind
Educators list, once I get my new computer, and E-Mail address!
I'm telling you this so that you'll know where I am after December, in case
you want to stay in touch.
Thanks for your patience during my rambling!
Blessings, Joshua
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 02:34:52 2013
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 22:34:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBe01rg=JWzu044hL6BwQXiC7zy=e8AMndRA84ij_faQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01cec622$4284f300$c78ed900$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZKx7H9rn+H0eivx8cM_-zqX5=CcmFgV=MDJLaSAQmJ7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBe01rg=JWzu044hL6BwQXiC7zy=e8AMndRA84ij_faQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJqG9gNBcdj0_9h-2dUzg8aV50RQ+rzaef7GXcngQ7McOVRRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Arielle,

On the same thought, who does the accrediting anyway? Is it a group
comprising of prominent authorities in the field that actually know
what they are talking about? I know UMass Boston has a TVI/O&M program
that, from what I heard is fairly decent. Another possible research
topic that JJ could look into is actually collecting personal opinions
from TVI's to see if they feel like their program effectively prepared
them to teach students braille.
Minh

On 10/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can I just ask, How can a TVI training program be accredited in this
> country that doesn't even teach the teachers Braille? Isn't Braille
> like the whole essence of specialized instruction for the blind?
> Arielle
>
> On 10/10/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Also, what he might do is look at TVI training programs and examine
>> how much braille they actually teach.
>>
>> The TVI I had from kindergarten through the 8th grade was very old
>> school in her teaching and knew her stuff really well.  She went to
>> vanderbuilt to study braille, (I am not sure Vanderbuilt has a program
>> any more) and said that when she was tested on the code she was
>> blindfolded and told to braille signs on the Perkins Brailler.  That
>> was how the professors at Vanderbuilt made sure their students were
>> proficient in braille.  I don't know if she had to read it with her
>> fingers or not, but she could write it really well even years later as
>> a TVI.  She was fabulous, and I'm not saying there aren't fabulous
>> TVIs out there today because I know a lot who are, but I'm not sure if
>> that kind of proficiency is being stressed in all schools.
>>
>> It also might be interesting to consider the decline of standards in
>> TVI education, or research that even if it's just one part of the
>> report.
>>
>> Just a thought.
>>
>>
>> On 10/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think North Carolina does not teach braille; but be sure I am right
>>> before
>>> you use that.   I remember hearing something to that effect.  If I am
>>> wrong,
>>> someone please correct me.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>>> Silverman
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:49 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>>>
>>> Anyone have any ideas for JJ?
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: JJ Aragon <mistyluna at fastmail.fm>
>>> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:40:22 -0600
>>> Subject: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>>> To: cabs at nfbnet.org, jbeecham at cocenter.org, slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
>>> Lisa
>>> Bonderson <lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>
>>>
>>> Hello Friends,
>>>   For my English class I have been asked to write an 8-page  researched
>>>   proposal. This proposal must address an educational issue within a
>>>   specified school/state/district. I would like to find a TVI college
>>>   training program that lacks in Braille training and propose an
>>>   improved curriculum. I'm having trouble narrowing down and finding
>>>   such a program, though. Can any of you think of a TVI program that I
>>>   could write about? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
>>>   Please know that this paper is for my and my teacher's use only. Feel
>>>   free to share your experiences/annecdotes. I will not use anything you
>>>   share without your permission. Also, please forward this message to
>>>   anyone you think could help.
>>> Best,
>>> JJ Aragon - University of Northern Colorado ...Addicted to the written
>>> word...
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cabs mailing list
>>> Cabs at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Cabs:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>


-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence


From amc05111 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 14:05:37 2013
From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley Coleman)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 10:05:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZKx7H9rn+H0eivx8cM_-zqX5=CcmFgV=MDJLaSAQmJ7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01cec622$4284f300$c78ed900$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZKx7H9rn+H0eivx8cM_-zqX5=CcmFgV=MDJLaSAQmJ7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <525805B1.3040504@gmail.com>

Hi all,

There is a TVI program in North Carolina.

Ashley
On 10/10/2013 9:48 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
> Also, what he might do is look at TVI training programs and examine
> how much braille they actually teach.
>
> The TVI I had from kindergarten through the 8th grade was very old
> school in her teaching and knew her stuff really well.  She went to
> vanderbuilt to study braille, (I am not sure Vanderbuilt has a program
> any more) and said that when she was tested on the code she was
> blindfolded and told to braille signs on the Perkins Brailler.  That
> was how the professors at Vanderbuilt made sure their students were
> proficient in braille.  I don't know if she had to read it with her
> fingers or not, but she could write it really well even years later as
> a TVI.  She was fabulous, and I'm not saying there aren't fabulous
> TVIs out there today because I know a lot who are, but I'm not sure if
> that kind of proficiency is being stressed in all schools.
>
> It also might be interesting to consider the decline of standards in
> TVI education, or research that even if it's just one part of the
> report.
>
> Just a thought.
>
>
> On 10/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think North Carolina does not teach braille; but be sure I am right
>> before
>> you use that.   I remember hearing something to that effect.  If I am
>> wrong,
>> someone please correct me.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>> Silverman
>> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:49 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>>
>> Anyone have any ideas for JJ?
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: JJ Aragon <mistyluna at fastmail.fm>
>> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:40:22 -0600
>> Subject: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>> To: cabs at nfbnet.org, jbeecham at cocenter.org, slabarre at labarrelaw.com, Lisa
>> Bonderson <lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>
>>
>> Hello Friends,
>>    For my English class I have been asked to write an 8-page  researched
>>    proposal. This proposal must address an educational issue within a
>>    specified school/state/district. I would like to find a TVI college
>>    training program that lacks in Braille training and propose an
>>    improved curriculum. I'm having trouble narrowing down and finding
>>    such a program, though. Can any of you think of a TVI program that I
>>    could write about? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
>>    Please know that this paper is for my and my teacher's use only. Feel
>>    free to share your experiences/annecdotes. I will not use anything you
>>    share without your permission. Also, please forward this message to
>>    anyone you think could help.
>> Best,
>> JJ Aragon - University of Northern Colorado ...Addicted to the written
>> word...
>>
>> --
>> http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cabs mailing list
>> Cabs at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Cabs:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>



From brice.smith319 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 15:42:10 2013
From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 11:42:10 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Paying a Driver
Message-ID: <CAL=h+ugLjjyp96LZA+GyZgTzAL_R-OHizuyXj_nz-ZufgtKYNA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, everyone.

What is the going rate to hire a driver? In this case, the trip would
be back and forth, twice a week, about 60 miles one way.

I asked someone I know who uses drivers and he said minimum wage or
higher, perhaps $10 an hour. That actually seems somewhat low to me.
Do most blind people pay flat fees or hourly? I believe the IRS
mileage rate is $.55 per mile, which would add up to about $30 for a
sixty mile one-way trip.

Brice


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 15:59:25 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 11:59:25 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Paying a Driver
In-Reply-To: <CAL=h+ugLjjyp96LZA+GyZgTzAL_R-OHizuyXj_nz-ZufgtKYNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL=h+ugLjjyp96LZA+GyZgTzAL_R-OHizuyXj_nz-ZufgtKYNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00f901cec69a$dc74abe0$955e03a0$@gmail.com>

Come to an agreement with someone; gas plus a little extra, or you can use
the standard I r s.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brice Smith
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 11:42 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Paying a Driver

Hi, everyone.

What is the going rate to hire a driver? In this case, the trip would be
back and forth, twice a week, about 60 miles one way.

I asked someone I know who uses drivers and he said minimum wage or higher,
perhaps $10 an hour. That actually seems somewhat low to me.
Do most blind people pay flat fees or hourly? I believe the IRS mileage rate
is $.55 per mile, which would add up to about $30 for a sixty mile one-way
trip.

Brice

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 16:32:00 2013
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:32:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying abroad
Message-ID: <CAAJqG9it0RZRMdb0m1iZfwRhO96jtGqMoi=LtYZ-FXF_3nnx1g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I am looking into studying abroad in Italy my junior year and I was
wondering if any of you have had experience studying in a foreign
country as a totally blind student? I also have a guide dog so any
experience from students with guide dogs would be most helpful to me.
I'm trying to weigh all my options before I go any further with the
application process.

Thanks,
Minh

-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence


From lucysirianni at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 11 16:59:43 2013
From: lucysirianni at earthlink.net (Lucy Sirianni)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 09:59:43 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying abroad
Message-ID: <E1VUg42-0001PU-HU@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Minh,

      I studied abroad in Florence the summer after my freshman 
year.  Overall it was a wonderful experience, and I'd be glad to 
answer any questions you may have on or off of the list.

Lucy

 ----- Original Message -----
From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:32:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying abroad

Hello all,

I am looking into studying abroad in Italy my junior year and I 
was
wondering if any of you have had experience studying in a foreign
country as a totally blind student? I also have a guide dog so 
any
experience from students with guide dogs would be most helpful to 
me.
I'm trying to weigh all my options before I go any further with 
the
application process.

Thanks,
Minh

--
"All men dream, but not equally.  Those who dream by night in the 
dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was 
vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act 
on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T.  E.  
Lawrence

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lucysirianni%
40earthlink.net


From laurel.stockard at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 17:01:19 2013
From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel And Stockard)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:01:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying abroad
In-Reply-To: <CAAJqG9it0RZRMdb0m1iZfwRhO96jtGqMoi=LtYZ-FXF_3nnx1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAJqG9it0RZRMdb0m1iZfwRhO96jtGqMoi=LtYZ-FXF_3nnx1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A6200A77-D921-4ED8-A882-AFD18B874101@gmail.com>

Hey Minh!
I studied abroad this last summer with my University in France. I took Stockard with me, my guide dog, and had a great time! You have my contact information I think, feel free to get in touch with me off list and I can tell you all about my experience. :-)

Laurel and Stockard

> On Oct 11, 2013, at 11:32, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I am looking into studying abroad in Italy my junior year and I was
> wondering if any of you have had experience studying in a foreign
> country as a totally blind student? I also have a guide dog so any
> experience from students with guide dogs would be most helpful to me.
> I'm trying to weigh all my options before I go any further with the
> application process.
> 
> Thanks,
> Minh
> 
> -- 
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 17:40:41 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 13:40:41 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
In-Reply-To: <525805B1.3040504@gmail.com>
References: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01cec622$4284f300$c78ed900$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZKx7H9rn+H0eivx8cM_-zqX5=CcmFgV=MDJLaSAQmJ7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<525805B1.3040504@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fa_55EzcvDeoSEK-pLhmLYp0x+iG9un6ZfNMX3=2OfMpw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Minh has an excellent point.  I've heard accounts from some TVIs who
say they love their jobs and feel like their cohorts did a wonderful
job of preparing them for the field... granted, all these people from
what I could tell are proficient in braille.  On the other hand, I did
a research paper on braille literacy a few years ago and found some
deplorable reports of TVIs who did not know their stuff and put
minimal effort into teaching their students.

I also think that the codes TVIs are tested on need to be questioned.
Does braille proficiency just include literary braille?  Does it
include codes for chemistry and science, Nemeth, or both?  What about
the music code?  The worst memory I have of working with my TVI was
that when she did not know the music code, she discouraged me from
learning it to try to cover up her lack of knowledge in that area.
Instead of saying, "I am not prepared to teach you that but I can help
you find someone who is," she said, "Why would you want to learn
that?"  Years later, the music code is the code I use a lot of the
time, only second to literary braille.

Does proficiency mean only proficient in some things, or proficient in
them all?  I get that codes like music are not used by every student
or may not seem as important as Nemeth and chem, but shouldn't the
teacher be prepared to teach any code if it appears to be something
the student will frequently use in their academic pursuits?

On 10/11/13, Ashley Coleman <amc05111 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> There is a TVI program in North Carolina.
>
> Ashley
> On 10/10/2013 9:48 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
>> Also, what he might do is look at TVI training programs and examine
>> how much braille they actually teach.
>>
>> The TVI I had from kindergarten through the 8th grade was very old
>> school in her teaching and knew her stuff really well.  She went to
>> vanderbuilt to study braille, (I am not sure Vanderbuilt has a program
>> any more) and said that when she was tested on the code she was
>> blindfolded and told to braille signs on the Perkins Brailler.  That
>> was how the professors at Vanderbuilt made sure their students were
>> proficient in braille.  I don't know if she had to read it with her
>> fingers or not, but she could write it really well even years later as
>> a TVI.  She was fabulous, and I'm not saying there aren't fabulous
>> TVIs out there today because I know a lot who are, but I'm not sure if
>> that kind of proficiency is being stressed in all schools.
>>
>> It also might be interesting to consider the decline of standards in
>> TVI education, or research that even if it's just one part of the
>> report.
>>
>> Just a thought.
>>
>>
>> On 10/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think North Carolina does not teach braille; but be sure I am right
>>> before
>>> you use that.   I remember hearing something to that effect.  If I am
>>> wrong,
>>> someone please correct me.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>>> Silverman
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:49 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>>>
>>> Anyone have any ideas for JJ?
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: JJ Aragon <mistyluna at fastmail.fm>
>>> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:40:22 -0600
>>> Subject: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>>> To: cabs at nfbnet.org, jbeecham at cocenter.org, slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
>>> Lisa
>>> Bonderson <lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>
>>>
>>> Hello Friends,
>>>    For my English class I have been asked to write an 8-page  researched
>>>    proposal. This proposal must address an educational issue within a
>>>    specified school/state/district. I would like to find a TVI college
>>>    training program that lacks in Braille training and propose an
>>>    improved curriculum. I'm having trouble narrowing down and finding
>>>    such a program, though. Can any of you think of a TVI program that I
>>>    could write about? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
>>>    Please know that this paper is for my and my teacher's use only. Feel
>>>    free to share your experiences/annecdotes. I will not use anything
>>> you
>>>    share without your permission. Also, please forward this message to
>>>    anyone you think could help.
>>> Best,
>>> JJ Aragon - University of Northern Colorado ...Addicted to the written
>>> word...
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cabs mailing list
>>> Cabs at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Cabs:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 17:52:59 2013
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 13:52:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying abroad
In-Reply-To: <A6200A77-D921-4ED8-A882-AFD18B874101@gmail.com>
References: <CAAJqG9it0RZRMdb0m1iZfwRhO96jtGqMoi=LtYZ-FXF_3nnx1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<A6200A77-D921-4ED8-A882-AFD18B874101@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADit0-sCJwjdGGMrE7fm6xxoEqeE+P2=Hv9+bXvQCi1L9C5yDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Minh,

Studying abroad is an amazing experience for most people. And the
challenges you'll face as a blind person aren't different from the
challenges you face here, and the language challenges are the same for
all the other students. I also studied abroad in France and would be
happy to talk to you about it. There was awonderful article written by
a blind student a few years ago called "I see london"... I can't
remember the rest of the title but I'm sure you can find it if you
google.
Best of luck and please let me know if I can answer any questions.


On 10/11/13, Laurel And Stockard <laurel.stockard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Minh!
> I studied abroad this last summer with my University in France. I took
> Stockard with me, my guide dog, and had a great time! You have my contact
> information I think, feel free to get in touch with me off list and I can
> tell you all about my experience. :-)
>
> Laurel and Stockard
>
>> On Oct 11, 2013, at 11:32, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am looking into studying abroad in Italy my junior year and I was
>> wondering if any of you have had experience studying in a foreign
>> country as a totally blind student? I also have a guide dog so any
>> experience from students with guide dogs would be most helpful to me.
>> I'm trying to weigh all my options before I go any further with the
>> application process.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Minh
>>
>> --
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
feel."
—
Maya Angelou


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 18:29:46 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 14:29:46 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
In-Reply-To: <CAAJqG9gNBcdj0_9h-2dUzg8aV50RQ+rzaef7GXcngQ7McOVRRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01cec622$4284f300$c78ed900$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZKx7H9rn+H0eivx8cM_-zqX5=CcmFgV=MDJLaSAQmJ7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBe01rg=JWzu044hL6BwQXiC7zy=e8AMndRA84ij_faQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAJqG9gNBcdj0_9h-2dUzg8aV50RQ+rzaef7GXcngQ7McOVRRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39953CCA-5184-4118-B8AE-A0DFF89C354F@gmail.com>

Whoa whoa.  To be a certified TVI program you have to include coursework in braille.  I would be very surprised to discover any programs that don't include a braille course.  The quality of these courses will vary from program to program and some programs include more braille courses than others.  This kind of project would be done much easier if the student already had a relationship with a program, either knew a student or a professor who indicated there was a need in the area.  Teachblindstudents.org used to maintain a list of the teacher prep programs in the country but I did not see it at first glance on the website.  You would really need to look at the course catalog for each program to determine the number of braille courses.  To determine their quality you would have to get a syllabus or talk to people who had gone through that program.  

I would recommend jointing the professionals in blindness education list and asking if there are professionals who have recently graduated who would be willing to discuss their preparation in the area of braille.  

And… Vanderbilt indeed still has a program.  I graduated from it last August.  :)

Greg Aikens, M. Ed.
Teacher of students who are blind and visually impaired
Cobb County School District
gpaikens at gmail.com



On Oct 10, 2013, at 10:34 PM, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Arielle,
> 
> On the same thought, who does the accrediting anyway? Is it a group
> comprising of prominent authorities in the field that actually know
> what they are talking about? I know UMass Boston has a TVI/O&M program
> that, from what I heard is fairly decent. Another possible research
> topic that JJ could look into is actually collecting personal opinions
> from TVI's to see if they feel like their program effectively prepared
> them to teach students braille.
> Minh
> 
> On 10/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Can I just ask, How can a TVI training program be accredited in this
>> country that doesn't even teach the teachers Braille? Isn't Braille
>> like the whole essence of specialized instruction for the blind?
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 10/10/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Also, what he might do is look at TVI training programs and examine
>>> how much braille they actually teach.
>>> 
>>> The TVI I had from kindergarten through the 8th grade was very old
>>> school in her teaching and knew her stuff really well.  She went to
>>> vanderbuilt to study braille, (I am not sure Vanderbuilt has a program
>>> any more) and said that when she was tested on the code she was
>>> blindfolded and told to braille signs on the Perkins Brailler.  That
>>> was how the professors at Vanderbuilt made sure their students were
>>> proficient in braille.  I don't know if she had to read it with her
>>> fingers or not, but she could write it really well even years later as
>>> a TVI.  She was fabulous, and I'm not saying there aren't fabulous
>>> TVIs out there today because I know a lot who are, but I'm not sure if
>>> that kind of proficiency is being stressed in all schools.
>>> 
>>> It also might be interesting to consider the decline of standards in
>>> TVI education, or research that even if it's just one part of the
>>> report.
>>> 
>>> Just a thought.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I think North Carolina does not teach braille; but be sure I am right
>>>> before
>>>> you use that.   I remember hearing something to that effect.  If I am
>>>> wrong,
>>>> someone please correct me.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>>>> Silverman
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:49 PM
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone have any ideas for JJ?
>>>> 
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: JJ Aragon <mistyluna at fastmail.fm>
>>>> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:40:22 -0600
>>>> Subject: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>>>> To: cabs at nfbnet.org, jbeecham at cocenter.org, slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
>>>> Lisa
>>>> Bonderson <lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Friends,
>>>>  For my English class I have been asked to write an 8-page  researched
>>>>  proposal. This proposal must address an educational issue within a
>>>>  specified school/state/district. I would like to find a TVI college
>>>>  training program that lacks in Braille training and propose an
>>>>  improved curriculum. I'm having trouble narrowing down and finding
>>>>  such a program, though. Can any of you think of a TVI program that I
>>>>  could write about? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>  Please know that this paper is for my and my teacher's use only. Feel
>>>>  free to share your experiences/annecdotes. I will not use anything you
>>>>  share without your permission. Also, please forward this message to
>>>>  anyone you think could help.
>>>> Best,
>>>> JJ Aragon - University of Northern Colorado ...Addicted to the written
>>>> word...
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Cabs mailing list
>>>> Cabs at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Cabs:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 19:35:19 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:35:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
In-Reply-To: <39953CCA-5184-4118-B8AE-A0DFF89C354F@gmail.com>
References: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01cec622$4284f300$c78ed900$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZKx7H9rn+H0eivx8cM_-zqX5=CcmFgV=MDJLaSAQmJ7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBe01rg=JWzu044hL6BwQXiC7zy=e8AMndRA84ij_faQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAJqG9gNBcdj0_9h-2dUzg8aV50RQ+rzaef7GXcngQ7McOVRRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<39953CCA-5184-4118-B8AE-A0DFF89C354F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaPGYnY0Zji1sXnhF1GHAVNj_iNmUuyYtAQHcw+WO+-Mw@mail.gmail.com>

Glad to hear Vanderbuilt still has a program!  :)  I saw the list of
which Greg spoke of this morning.  The link is below; however, I do
not know if it is complete as I did not see Louisiana Tech on the list
and know they have a strong program.

http://www.teachingvisuallyimpaired.com/professional-preparation-programs.html

On 10/11/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
> Whoa whoa.  To be a certified TVI program you have to include coursework in
> braille.  I would be very surprised to discover any programs that don't
> include a braille course.  The quality of these courses will vary from
> program to program and some programs include more braille courses than
> others.  This kind of project would be done much easier if the student
> already had a relationship with a program, either knew a student or a
> professor who indicated there was a need in the area.
> Teachblindstudents.org used to maintain a list of the teacher prep programs
> in the country but I did not see it at first glance on the website.  You
> would really need to look at the course catalog for each program to
> determine the number of braille courses.  To determine their quality you
> would have to get a syllabus or talk to people who had gone through that
> program.
>
> I would recommend jointing the professionals in blindness education list and
> asking if there are professionals who have recently graduated who would be
> willing to discuss their preparation in the area of braille.
>
> And… Vanderbilt indeed still has a program.  I graduated from it last
> August.  :)
>
> Greg Aikens, M. Ed.
> Teacher of students who are blind and visually impaired
> Cobb County School District
> gpaikens at gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Oct 10, 2013, at 10:34 PM, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Arielle,
>>
>> On the same thought, who does the accrediting anyway? Is it a group
>> comprising of prominent authorities in the field that actually know
>> what they are talking about? I know UMass Boston has a TVI/O&M program
>> that, from what I heard is fairly decent. Another possible research
>> topic that JJ could look into is actually collecting personal opinions
>> from TVI's to see if they feel like their program effectively prepared
>> them to teach students braille.
>> Minh
>>
>> On 10/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Can I just ask, How can a TVI training program be accredited in this
>>> country that doesn't even teach the teachers Braille? Isn't Braille
>>> like the whole essence of specialized instruction for the blind?
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 10/10/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Also, what he might do is look at TVI training programs and examine
>>>> how much braille they actually teach.
>>>>
>>>> The TVI I had from kindergarten through the 8th grade was very old
>>>> school in her teaching and knew her stuff really well.  She went to
>>>> vanderbuilt to study braille, (I am not sure Vanderbuilt has a program
>>>> any more) and said that when she was tested on the code she was
>>>> blindfolded and told to braille signs on the Perkins Brailler.  That
>>>> was how the professors at Vanderbuilt made sure their students were
>>>> proficient in braille.  I don't know if she had to read it with her
>>>> fingers or not, but she could write it really well even years later as
>>>> a TVI.  She was fabulous, and I'm not saying there aren't fabulous
>>>> TVIs out there today because I know a lot who are, but I'm not sure if
>>>> that kind of proficiency is being stressed in all schools.
>>>>
>>>> It also might be interesting to consider the decline of standards in
>>>> TVI education, or research that even if it's just one part of the
>>>> report.
>>>>
>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think North Carolina does not teach braille; but be sure I am right
>>>>> before
>>>>> you use that.   I remember hearing something to that effect.  If I am
>>>>> wrong,
>>>>> someone please correct me.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>>>>> Silverman
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:49 PM
>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone have any ideas for JJ?
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> From: JJ Aragon <mistyluna at fastmail.fm>
>>>>> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:40:22 -0600
>>>>> Subject: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
>>>>> To: cabs at nfbnet.org, jbeecham at cocenter.org, slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
>>>>> Lisa
>>>>> Bonderson <lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Friends,
>>>>>  For my English class I have been asked to write an 8-page  researched
>>>>>  proposal. This proposal must address an educational issue within a
>>>>>  specified school/state/district. I would like to find a TVI college
>>>>>  training program that lacks in Braille training and propose an
>>>>>  improved curriculum. I'm having trouble narrowing down and finding
>>>>>  such a program, though. Can any of you think of a TVI program that I
>>>>>  could write about? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>>  Please know that this paper is for my and my teacher's use only. Feel
>>>>>  free to share your experiences/annecdotes. I will not use anything
>>>>> you
>>>>>  share without your permission. Also, please forward this message to
>>>>>  anyone you think could help.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> JJ Aragon - University of Northern Colorado ...Addicted to the written
>>>>> word...
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Cabs mailing list
>>>>> Cabs at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Cabs:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>>>> .com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From carlymih at comcast.net  Fri Oct 11 19:56:38 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:56:38 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying abroad
In-Reply-To: <A6200A77-D921-4ED8-A882-AFD18B874101@gmail.com>
References: <CAAJqG9it0RZRMdb0m1iZfwRhO96jtGqMoi=LtYZ-FXF_3nnx1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<A6200A77-D921-4ED8-A882-AFD18B874101@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131011124208.01da6560@comcast.net>

Hi, Minh,

         I have always been very hungry to travel abroad 
particularly, after meeting my childhood friend, Tieu, whom was 
adopted from the Nguyen Dinh Chieu blind school in Hanoi. While a 
kid, I always wanted to visit the school and aexperience Tieu's world 
before being adopted by white people. In fact, Tieu recently visited 
Nguyen Dinh Chieu as an adult.

I did get a chance to visit Kukizaki, Japan in '97 with my 
juniorhigh's sister city when, a delligation of kids visited that 
town where we lived with homestays, touring  some major tourest 
attractions such as Niko shrine, a historic monestary  as well as the 
sakura (cherry blossom) festival, a day trip to Tokyo, my homestay 
itself was an old temple. In my case, a girl, Yuri, lived amungst my 
homestay enviroment since, I think nowadays, although it wa great 
having access to Yuri's uunderstanding of the Japanese languag, I 
didn't get the experience to complete isolation caused by blind 
people being without the ability to communicate. Good luck, Minh!
   studied abroad this last summer with my University in France. I 
took Stockard with me, my guide dog, and had a great time! You have 
my contact information I think, feel free to get in touch with me off 
list and I can tell you all about my experience. :-)

>Laurel and Stockard
>
> > On Oct 11, 2013, at 11:32, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I am looking into studying abroad in Italy my junior year and I was
> > wondering if any of you have had experience studying in a foreign
> > country as a totally blind student? I also have a guide dog so any
> > experience from students with guide dogs would be most helpful to me.
> > I'm trying to weigh all my options before I go any further with the
> > application process.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Minh
> >
> > --
> > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 23:18:38 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 19:18:38 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] headphones
Message-ID: <004d01cec6d8$37c84370$a758ca50$@gmail.com>

Is the Aftershokz AS330F Bluez Open Ear Bluetooth Wireless Headset a good
accessible and reliable headset?  As a fulltime student with college student
money I want to be sure before I spend the money.  Has anyone used this bone
conduction technology before, especially walking and using gps?  

Thanks. 


From jhud7789 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 12 00:08:59 2013
From: jhud7789 at gmail.com (Joseph Hudson)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 19:08:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] headphones
In-Reply-To: <004d01cec6d8$37c84370$a758ca50$@gmail.com>
References: <004d01cec6d8$37c84370$a758ca50$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1122A057-9BF1-4A1C-B589-412D1A201526@gmail.com>

Hello Justin, just heard it's a very reliable Henson.

Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2013, at 6:18 PM, "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Is the Aftershokz AS330F Bluez Open Ear Bluetooth Wireless Headset a good
> accessible and reliable headset?  As a fulltime student with college student
> money I want to be sure before I spend the money.  Has anyone used this bone
> conduction technology before, especially walking and using gps?  
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 12 02:29:24 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 22:29:24 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying abroad
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20131011124208.01da6560@comcast.net>
References: <CAAJqG9it0RZRMdb0m1iZfwRhO96jtGqMoi=LtYZ-FXF_3nnx1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<A6200A77-D921-4ED8-A882-AFD18B874101@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131011124208.01da6560@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Faypk8EE_xGUeUR7X7urBrCHnu3SGBQt46pc99+dSRpQA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Traveling abroad is an amazing opportunity.  Having never been outside
the continental U.S before, and now being in a major that is even more
rare outside of American boarders than it is inside, I'd do just about
anything for the experience.  (I'm thinking a summer abroad to work on
my minors in psych or philosophy).

That being said, not every student gets this chance, so I'd take it
and figure the stuff out to make it happen as you go.  Yes, it sounds
risky, but it will probably be well worth it, and what Mary said about
the language barrier not being too different from the one the sighted
students will experience sounds right.  I'd go for it.

Best of luck!

On 10/11/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi, Minh,
>
>          I have always been very hungry to travel abroad
> particularly, after meeting my childhood friend, Tieu, whom was
> adopted from the Nguyen Dinh Chieu blind school in Hanoi. While a
> kid, I always wanted to visit the school and aexperience Tieu's world
> before being adopted by white people. In fact, Tieu recently visited
> Nguyen Dinh Chieu as an adult.
>
> I did get a chance to visit Kukizaki, Japan in '97 with my
> juniorhigh's sister city when, a delligation of kids visited that
> town where we lived with homestays, touring  some major tourest
> attractions such as Niko shrine, a historic monestary  as well as the
> sakura (cherry blossom) festival, a day trip to Tokyo, my homestay
> itself was an old temple. In my case, a girl, Yuri, lived amungst my
> homestay enviroment since, I think nowadays, although it wa great
> having access to Yuri's uunderstanding of the Japanese languag, I
> didn't get the experience to complete isolation caused by blind
> people being without the ability to communicate. Good luck, Minh!
>    studied abroad this last summer with my University in France. I
> took Stockard with me, my guide dog, and had a great time! You have
> my contact information I think, feel free to get in touch with me off
> list and I can tell you all about my experience. :-)
>
>>Laurel and Stockard
>>
>> > On Oct 11, 2013, at 11:32, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > I am looking into studying abroad in Italy my junior year and I was
>> > wondering if any of you have had experience studying in a foreign
>> > country as a totally blind student? I also have a guide dog so any
>> > experience from students with guide dogs would be most helpful to me.
>> > I'm trying to weigh all my options before I go any further with the
>> > application process.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Minh
>> >
>> > --
>> > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>> > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 12 17:11:02 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 11:11:02 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Paying a Driver
In-Reply-To: <00f901cec69a$dc74abe0$955e03a0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAL=h+ugLjjyp96LZA+GyZgTzAL_R-OHizuyXj_nz-ZufgtKYNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f901cec69a$dc74abe0$955e03a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJB=NnPA2ayvD2QKForqP2qvr1imOzb__Sw-wMPv5a2b+g@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if the $.55 per mile is supposed to be for someone who
drives him/herself or someone who is driving another passenger. My
inclination would be to pay a certain amount per mile that covers gas
plus car wear and tear, plus an hourly fee to compensate the person
for their time driving me and their time coming to get me from
wherever they live.
Arielle

On 10/11/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Come to an agreement with someone; gas plus a little extra, or you can use
> the standard I r s.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brice Smith
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 11:42 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Paying a Driver
>
> Hi, everyone.
>
> What is the going rate to hire a driver? In this case, the trip would be
> back and forth, twice a week, about 60 miles one way.
>
> I asked someone I know who uses drivers and he said minimum wage or higher,
> perhaps $10 an hour. That actually seems somewhat low to me.
> Do most blind people pay flat fees or hourly? I believe the IRS mileage
> rate
> is $.55 per mile, which would add up to about $30 for a sixty mile one-way
> trip.
>
> Brice
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From sgermano at asu.edu  Sat Oct 12 17:20:36 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 10:20:36 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Paying a Driver
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJB=NnPA2ayvD2QKForqP2qvr1imOzb__Sw-wMPv5a2b+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL=h+ugLjjyp96LZA+GyZgTzAL_R-OHizuyXj_nz-ZufgtKYNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f901cec69a$dc74abe0$955e03a0$@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJB=NnPA2ayvD2QKForqP2qvr1imOzb__Sw-wMPv5a2b+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avcW1eH9QjaOLnBkQS0oa947s3e8NyN4yhZjA0DvtYTbCg@mail.gmail.com>

I believe the $.55 is what you get for driving your own car for business
use. My fiance travels a lot for work and gets reimbursed at that rate for
driving to the airport or driving to client sites that are local.

If you are paying someone to drive you, the rate would really depend. Are
they dropping you off and driving back home? If so you need to cover both
directions for their time. You need to cover their time if they are waiting
for you also.


On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Arielle Silverman <
Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:

> I'm not sure if the $.55 per mile is supposed to be for someone who
> drives him/herself or someone who is driving another passenger. My
> inclination would be to pay a certain amount per mile that covers gas
> plus car wear and tear, plus an hourly fee to compensate the person
> for their time driving me and their time coming to get me from
> wherever they live.
> Arielle
>
> On 10/11/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Come to an agreement with someone; gas plus a little extra, or you can
> use
> > the standard I r s.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brice Smith
> > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 11:42 AM
> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: [nabs-l] Paying a Driver
> >
> > Hi, everyone.
> >
> > What is the going rate to hire a driver? In this case, the trip would be
> > back and forth, twice a week, about 60 miles one way.
> >
> > I asked someone I know who uses drivers and he said minimum wage or
> higher,
> > perhaps $10 an hour. That actually seems somewhat low to me.
> > Do most blind people pay flat fees or hourly? I believe the IRS mileage
> > rate
> > is $.55 per mile, which would add up to about $30 for a sixty mile
> one-way
> > trip.
> >
> > Brice
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> > .com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From mary.nelle at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 12 18:18:44 2013
From: mary.nelle at earthlink.net (Mary Nelle McLennan)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 13:18:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [BANA-Announce] BANA to Hold Fall Board Meeting in
 Louisville, KY
Message-ID: <auto-000127654674@mailfront4.g2host.com>


[]

Press Release
October 2013
For Immediate Release

CONTACT: Frances Mary D’Andrea, Chair
Braille Authority of North America
Phone: 412-521-5797
Email: <mailto:literacy2 at mindspring.com>literacy2 at mindspring.com
BANA to Hold Fall Board Meeting in Louisville, KY
The Braille Authority of North America (BANA), 
which meets face-to-face semiannually, will hold 
its 2013 fall meeting November 8­10 in 
Louisville, KY. This meeting will be hosted by 
the American Printing House for the Blind (APH), 
a BANA member organization. Meetings on Friday, 
November 8, will take place at APH, which is 
located at 1839 Frankfort Avenue. Meetings on 
November 9 and 10, including an Open Forum to 
which the community is invited, will be held at 
the Hyatt Regency Louisville, located at 311 South Fourth Street.
As always, interested parties are invited to 
observe the BANA Board meetings. Items on the 
Board’s agenda include reports from all of BANA's 
technical committees such as music, math, foreign 
language, and tactile graphics. In-depth reports 
will be presented by the Unified English Braille 
(UEB) Task Force, the Publications Committee, and 
the Braille Research Committee. If you are 
interested in observing the BANA meeting, please 
contact BANA Chair Frances Mary D’Andrea at 
412-521-5797 or by email at 
<mailto:literacy2 at mindspring.com>literacy2 at mindspring.com.
Saturday morning, November 9, from 10:00 till 
11:30, BANA will host an Open Forum that provides 
a venue for participants to discuss braille with 
the Board and to learn more about the workings of 
BANA. Members of the BANA Board will share the 
evolving plans for the transition to UEB and will 
report on the UEB Transition Forum being held in 
October. Open Forum participants are encouraged 
to discuss their views and suggestions 
surrounding braille and its future. Braille 
readers, teachers, and students as well as 
producers and distributors of braille are 
encouraged to take advantage of this opportunity 
to participate in a round-table discussion with 
the members of the BANA Board. The Open Forum 
will be held in the Gulfstream room at the Hyatt 
Regency Louisville. To reserve your space at the 
Open Forum and to ensure accurate counts for 
handouts, contact Frances Mary D’Andrea as indicated above.
NOTE: This press release is available in HTML on 
the BANA website at 
<http://www.brailleauthority.org/pressreleases/pr-2013-10-12.html>http://www.brailleauthority.org/pressreleases/pr-2013-10-12.html.

For additional resource information, visit 
<http://www.brailleauthority.org>www.brailleauthority.org
The Board of BANA consists of appointed 
representatives from seventeen member 
organizations of braille producers, transcribers, teachers, and consumers.
The mission of the Braille Authority of North 
America is to assure literacy for tactile readers 
through the standardization of braille and/or tactile graphics.

The purpose of BANA is to promote and to 
facilitate the uses, teaching, and production of 
braille. Pursuant to this purpose, BANA will 
promulgate rules, make interpretations, and 
render opinions pertaining to braille codes and 
guidelines for the provisions of literary and 
technical materials and related forms and formats 
of embossed materials now in existence or to be 
developed in the future for the use of blind 
persons in North America. When appropriate, BANA 
shall accomplish these activities in 
international collaboration with countries using 
English braille. In exercising its function and 
authority, BANA shall consider the effects of its 
decisions on other existing braille codes and 
guidelines, forms and formats; ease of production 
by various methods; and acceptability to readers.





_______________________________________________
BANA-Announce mailing list
BANA-Announce at brailleauthority.org
http://www.brailleauthority.org/mailman/listinfo/bana-announce
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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 12 19:08:28 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonnya)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 15:08:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Paying a Driver
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avcW1eH9QjaOLnBkQS0oa947s3e8NyN4yhZjA0DvtYTbCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL=h+ugLjjyp96LZA+GyZgTzAL_R-OHizuyXj_nz-ZufgtKYNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f901cec69a$dc74abe0$955e03a0$@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJB=NnPA2ayvD2QKForqP2qvr1imOzb__Sw-wMPv5a2b+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_avcW1eH9QjaOLnBkQS0oa947s3e8NyN4yhZjA0DvtYTbCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DDB4B52C-59BC-4220-BD7C-94CF3B7CAC56@gmail.com>

That was something I'd been wondering about my self. As I am thinking about getting a car and driver. How do I choose a driver?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2013, at 13:20, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> 
> I believe the $.55 is what you get for driving your own car for business
> use. My fiance travels a lot for work and gets reimbursed at that rate for
> driving to the airport or driving to client sites that are local.
> 
> If you are paying someone to drive you, the rate would really depend. Are
> they dropping you off and driving back home? If so you need to cover both
> directions for their time. You need to cover their time if they are waiting
> for you also.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Arielle Silverman <
> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure if the $.55 per mile is supposed to be for someone who
>> drives him/herself or someone who is driving another passenger. My
>> inclination would be to pay a certain amount per mile that covers gas
>> plus car wear and tear, plus an hourly fee to compensate the person
>> for their time driving me and their time coming to get me from
>> wherever they live.
>> Arielle
>> 
>>> On 10/11/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Come to an agreement with someone; gas plus a little extra, or you can
>> use
>>> the standard I r s.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brice Smith
>>> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 11:42 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Paying a Driver
>>> 
>>> Hi, everyone.
>>> 
>>> What is the going rate to hire a driver? In this case, the trip would be
>>> back and forth, twice a week, about 60 miles one way.
>>> 
>>> I asked someone I know who uses drivers and he said minimum wage or
>> higher,
>>> perhaps $10 an hour. That actually seems somewhat low to me.
>>> Do most blind people pay flat fees or hourly? I believe the IRS mileage
>>> rate
>>> is $.55 per mile, which would add up to about $30 for a sixty mile
>> one-way
>>> trip.
>>> 
>>> Brice
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Sat Oct 12 21:38:42 2013
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 15:38:42 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Sun Setting on Your Vacation, Grab the Last Few Rays
Message-ID: <051e01cec793$6c765f60$45631e20$@labarrelaw.com>

Federation Friends:


This is pretty much your last opportunity to participate in this year's
Amazing Vacation Travel Raffle because the sun will set on online sales this
coming Friday, October 18th, at noon Mountain time.  To all of you who have
already purchased tickets, please accept my heartfelt thanks!  Your support
allows us to continue our mission of changing lives and providing a better
future for the blind of America.

What can you win?  A $3500.00 travel gift certificate to a travel agency.
Anyone in the world can win  this certificate to travel anywhere  in the
world.  You don't even have to use it  all at once.  You can break it up
into a few trips and related travel purchases from the agency.  For example,
last year's winner is taking a bike tour of Europe.

What is the cost?

 The cost of one ticket is $10 and you can get three for $20.

How do you purchase tickets?

Please go to www.nfbco.org/vacation-travel-raffle and follow the
instructions from there.

What does this fundraiser support?

It supports our college scholarship program for blind students and our
Braille literacy program called BELL for blind youth.

When is the drawing?

We will draw the winning ticket on Saturday, October 19, 2013, as part of
the NFB of Colorado's Annual Banquet.  You need not be present to win.

Again, please go to www.nfbco.org/vacation-travel-raffle and purchase your
tickets.  Thanks to all those who are supporting this program! 

Scott C. LaBarre, President
National Federation of the Blind of Colorado

P.S. I apologize if you have received this mailing a couple of times due to
the fact that some email addresses are on a few different lists.

 

 

 

 


From eschlenker at cox.net  Sun Oct 13 17:46:29 2013
From: eschlenker at cox.net (Emily Schlenker)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 12:46:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you please circulate this? Wichita School District
 Needs VI Teachers...
Message-ID: <auto-000128220948@mailfront3.g2host.com>

Can you please circulate this?
My school district is in need of a VI teacher for both middle and 
high school, and it would be ideal to have teachers who 
understand/live the NFB philosophy. I will include the url for these postings:
<http://www.applitrack.com/wichita/onlineapp/default.aspx?Category=Special+Education&subcategory=Visually+Impaired>http://www.applitrack.com/wichita/onlineapp/default.aspx?Category=Special+Education&subcategory=Visually+Impaired


-- 
Emily Schlenker
Vice President South Central Chapter
Wichita, Kansas

316-644-4227

From gpaikens at gmail.com  Sun Oct 13 23:56:53 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 19:56:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying abroad
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Faypk8EE_xGUeUR7X7urBrCHnu3SGBQt46pc99+dSRpQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAJqG9it0RZRMdb0m1iZfwRhO96jtGqMoi=LtYZ-FXF_3nnx1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<A6200A77-D921-4ED8-A882-AFD18B874101@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131011124208.01da6560@comcast.net>
	<CAFja7Faypk8EE_xGUeUR7X7urBrCHnu3SGBQt46pc99+dSRpQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0C10A30-31B1-4483-AC02-7268DB654E4C@gmail.com>

I also highly recommend study abroad if you can make it happen.  I spent a semester in Salamanca, Spain during my undergrad and took my Seeing Eye dog with me.  The hardest piece related to taking my dog was that it took me some time to actually discover where to buy quality dog food over there and the constant travel without settling in one place meant near constant stress on my dog.  Even though I spent most of my time in one city, I never stayed in one place for more than two weeks at a time, taking my weekends to travel around and then returning for classes.  I had to take steps to give my dog time to destress and relax in between.  As always with dog vs. cane travel, there are trade offs.  

Best of luck as you investigate this opportunity.

-Greg


On Oct 11, 2013, at 10:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Traveling abroad is an amazing opportunity.  Having never been outside
> the continental U.S before, and now being in a major that is even more
> rare outside of American boarders than it is inside, I'd do just about
> anything for the experience.  (I'm thinking a summer abroad to work on
> my minors in psych or philosophy).
> 
> That being said, not every student gets this chance, so I'd take it
> and figure the stuff out to make it happen as you go.  Yes, it sounds
> risky, but it will probably be well worth it, and what Mary said about
> the language barrier not being too different from the one the sighted
> students will experience sounds right.  I'd go for it.
> 
> Best of luck!
> 
> On 10/11/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hi, Minh,
>> 
>>         I have always been very hungry to travel abroad
>> particularly, after meeting my childhood friend, Tieu, whom was
>> adopted from the Nguyen Dinh Chieu blind school in Hanoi. While a
>> kid, I always wanted to visit the school and aexperience Tieu's world
>> before being adopted by white people. In fact, Tieu recently visited
>> Nguyen Dinh Chieu as an adult.
>> 
>> I did get a chance to visit Kukizaki, Japan in '97 with my
>> juniorhigh's sister city when, a delligation of kids visited that
>> town where we lived with homestays, touring  some major tourest
>> attractions such as Niko shrine, a historic monestary  as well as the
>> sakura (cherry blossom) festival, a day trip to Tokyo, my homestay
>> itself was an old temple. In my case, a girl, Yuri, lived amungst my
>> homestay enviroment since, I think nowadays, although it wa great
>> having access to Yuri's uunderstanding of the Japanese languag, I
>> didn't get the experience to complete isolation caused by blind
>> people being without the ability to communicate. Good luck, Minh!
>>   studied abroad this last summer with my University in France. I
>> took Stockard with me, my guide dog, and had a great time! You have
>> my contact information I think, feel free to get in touch with me off
>> list and I can tell you all about my experience. :-)
>> 
>>> Laurel and Stockard
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 11, 2013, at 11:32, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> 
>>>> I am looking into studying abroad in Italy my junior year and I was
>>>> wondering if any of you have had experience studying in a foreign
>>>> country as a totally blind student? I also have a guide dog so any
>>>> experience from students with guide dogs would be most helpful to me.
>>>> I'm trying to weigh all my options before I go any further with the
>>>> application process.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Minh
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 01:09:16 2013
From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 20:09:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] 5 Awesome Resources for Learning Today's Most Marketable
	Skills
Message-ID: <CANnXs0KY0nRgv-nnUj0Qvm5OWSvF3UCEWOhJr4VfYg5JkqUZQg@mail.gmail.com>

5 Awesome Resources for Learning Today's Most Marketable Skills

By BEN WEISS <http://money.usnews.com/topics/author/ben_weiss>
July 2, 2013 RSS
Feed<http://money.usnews.com/blogrss/outside-voices-careers.xml>
 Print<http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-careers/2013/07/02/5-awesome-resources-for-learning-todays-most-marketable-skills_print.html>
[image: Ben Weiss]

Ben Weiss
<http://www.infusivesolutions.com/>

*"I'm excited by the possibilities." - Bill Gates*

One characteristic connecting many of history's greatest minds is a
fanatical desire for continuous learning. Bill Gates is notorious for
reading Time Magazine cover-to-cover so he can go on to his next activity
having learned something new (even if what he learned didn't interest him
specifically). Abraham Lincoln – argued by many to be one of the most
prolific communicators<http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-careers/2012/12/11/if-you-want-a-great-job-tell-a-great-story>
ever
– developed his rhetoric skills in part through impassioned study of
William Shakespeare's work. Steve Jobs, George Washington, Ansel Adams, Ray
Bradbury, Stanley Kubrick and legions of other American icons also share a
common passion for independent skills development outside the traditional
classroom setting.

And in the digital age when so many tools exist to help the workforce
develop and refine those skills that get jobs, we could all take a lesson
from the above-mentioned figures and take some time to educate ourselves.

But, how?

One excellent resource is SkilledUp <http://skilledup.com/>, an education
startup founded by Massachusetts Institute of Technology alumnus Nick
Gidwani that synthesizes thousands of digital learning tools into one
easily navigable platform. While SkilledUp is rather broad, for this
article Gidwani helped source some of the best resources for building
specific skills that are getting professionals hired in 2013.

Let's take a closer look.

*1. To learn design, frontend development and UX: Team Treehouse.* In an
article for CareerBuilder, Susan Ricker writes that design and user
experience specialists (professionals responsible for the
conceptualization, design, layout and formatting of corporate identity
materials) have the most in-demand
skills<http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/best-technology-jobs>
in
the creative industry today.

When it comes to developing these skills, Gidwani suggests patronizing Team
Treehouse (teamtreehouse.com) – a thorough resource that enables
professionals of any experience to learn both graphic design through tools
like Adobe Photoshop, in addition to HTML, CSS and Ruby on Rails code.
Combining these skills is incredibly powerful as professionals may then
manage a firm's aesthetics while also enabling end users to engage in
interactive content and modules. "They are one of few training libraries
that does everything well," Gidwani says. "Very high production quality,
excellent content and support, a great value and everything they do is
focused on getting employable skills. The future of online
education<http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/slideshows/what-will-the-job-market-look-like-in-2020>
."

*2. To learn backend coding: Code School.* According to the Treehouse blog,
if frontend development determines what you see when you're buying concert
tickets, backend development pertains to where and how your personal
information is stored and secured through databases and servers you don't
see. It's an incredibly marketable skill needed by virtually every firm.
Gidwani suggests those interested in backend technologies patronize Code
School (www.codeschool.com) – a tech-skills learning platform that enables
users to develop backend coding proficiency by getting their hands dirty
rather than studying theory.

*3. To learn search engine optimization: Distilled.net.* According to a
recent study by the search engine optimization (SEO) tech firm Conductor,
there's been a 112 percent year over year increase in the demand for SEO
professionals who can develop innovative digital strategies that facilitate
meaningful online exposure for a brand.

If this field strikes your fancy, Gidwani suggests one of the best
resources for upping your SEO employability is Distilled.net – an outlet
providing specifically tailored SEO services to help clients generate
tangible business value. "The instructors are leaders in their field," he
says. "And the amount and quality of content you get is extraordinary. Most
importantly, SEO changes constantly and Distilled takes efforts to keep the
content fresh. It's by far the best value of any SEO training we've seen."

*4. To learn content marketing: Copyblogger.* The folks at Google are well
aware of sordid digital marketing practices and have made it a salient
priority to boost content that's useful, relevant and high quality.

Consequently, it's no surprise that marketing and public relations
professionals<http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/best-creative-jobs>
are
ditching traditional mass marketing strategies for hyper-targeted content
that builds rapport and provides value for a target group of consumers. If
you fancy yourself a writer, frequenting Copyblogger.com is an excellent
way to learn the skills that position professionals as experts in the
field. "Excellent, high-quality content is where online marketing has been
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experts and the content. It's also extremely easy to use and take advantage
of."

*5. To learn email/affiliate marketing and overall online entrepreneurship:
Fizzle.co.* There are numerous tools that go into launching and maintaining
an online business including influencer connection, email/affiliate
marketing, content development and of course, sales.

Fizzle.co has put all the resources for interested users to learn and
master these concepts with truly next-level support within its platform.
"With weekly office hours with the founders to ask questions and an active
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above many of their competitors," Gidwani says.

*Bonus: Learning people skills (human management, public speaking,
relationship building).* According to Gidwani, while people skills have
immense value in the business world, they are more likely to result in a
promotion/upward mobility rather than increase your odds for getting a job
in the first place.

However, to develop these skills, the Dale Carnegie leadership courses are
industry standard when it comes to refining great leadership tendencies.

*Ben Weiss** is the digital marketing strategist for Infusive
Solutions<http://www.infusivesolutions.com/> –
an NYC-based IT staffing firm in the Microsoft Partner Network that
specializes in the placement of .NET, SharePoint and SQL Server developers
as well as Windows Systems Engineers, DBAs and help desk support
professionals in verticals such as legal, finance, fashion and media.
Connect with him on Twitter: @InfusiveInc or at Facebook.com/InfusiveInc.*
Tags: job searching, <http://money.usnews.com/topics/subjects/job_searching>
 careers, <http://money.usnews.com/topics/subjects/careers> STEM
jobs<http://money.usnews.com/topics/subjects/stem_jobs>
You might be interested in...


   - [image: Check Out the 100 Best Jobs of
2013]<http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-best-jobs?s_cid=art_btm>

   Check Out the 100 Best Jobs of
2013<http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-best-jobs?s_cid=art_btm>
   - [image: The 25 Best Jobs of
2013]<http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/slideshows/the-25-best-jobs-of-2013?s_cid=art_btm>

   In Pictures: The 25 Best Jobs of
2013<http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/slideshows/the-25-best-jobs-of-2013?s_cid=art_btm>

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Reader Comments (7)

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 04:33:56 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 00:33:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
	being compassionate
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.

It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
that is what this is like a bit.

I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
a person, too.

So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
through it.

I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
-- 
Kaiti


From piano.girl0299 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 19:51:15 2013
From: piano.girl0299 at gmail.com (Kelsey Nicolay)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 15:51:15 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed
Message-ID: <525c4b58.450d320a.056a.684a@mx.google.com>

Hello,
I am currently shopping around for a voice teacher.  I have found 
a couple.  However, one teacher has a requirement that I am not 
sure I can to meet.  The teacher is a vocal coach who teaches his 
lessons based on his performance experience.  He teaches all 
styles of music.  However, he does not play an instrument.  So he 
requests that his students obtain backing tracks for the songs 
they want to sing.  Since I use JAWS, I don't know if there is a 
way I can do this.  Most of the web sites that have these are not 
very accessible.  I could use itunes, but I have not found a 
reliable method for burning CD's without using the mouse.  So I 
have no idea how this could be done.  I would think that walking 
into a lesson carrying a laptop is not practical.  I play piano, 
so do you think I could avoid this by saying that I could play 
the chords on the piano? Someone who has gone through this, 
please help.  I would like to study with him since his rate is 
reasonable, at $10 per half hour.  He does know that I am 
visually impaired and is fine with that issue.  However, I just 
don't know how to deal with this issue.  If you have ever burned 
a CD using JAWS, how do you do it? Itunes is what I normally use, 
but if I have to do it with Windows Media player, I could do it.  
The only reason I prefer itunes is because I use an ipod.  Or is 
there another free source where I can find backing tracks which 
would be more accessible? Is youtube good? I've used it for other 
things, but I have found that JAWS tends to interfere with the 
video a lot.  So, fellow JAWS users, what do you recommend? Can I 
use the excuse that I cannot get a backing track because of the 
issues I described above?
Thanks,
Kelsey Nicolay


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 21:04:21 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:04:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed
In-Reply-To: <525c4b58.450d320a.056a.684a@mx.google.com>
References: <525c4b58.450d320a.056a.684a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <B3912EFD-78EB-495E-9CF2-87A8768E102D@gmail.com>

Your question made me curious so I did a couple of quick searches in the iTunes store.  I found several tracks when I searched for "performance track" and "accompaniment track."  There may be other phrases that will get you more results.  Most of what I saw was pop music, musicals, and christian music.  I'm sure if you had something specific you were looking for, you could try that search and find something better.  

As to burning CDs with JAWS, this used to work well with Windows Media Player.  I don't use iTunes on a windows machine much so can't speak to that.  But, why not just load the track on your iPod and take it to your lesson?  Your teacher likely has a way to connect an mp3 player to his stereo, unless he has already told you that you need a CD.  

The amazon mp3 store is also very accessible.  You could try searching there too.

Best of luck,

Greg


On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> I am currently shopping around for a voice teacher.  I have found a couple.  However, one teacher has a requirement that I am not sure I can to meet.  The teacher is a vocal coach who teaches his lessons based on his performance experience.  He teaches all styles of music.  However, he does not play an instrument.  So he requests that his students obtain backing tracks for the songs they want to sing.  Since I use JAWS, I don't know if there is a way I can do this.  Most of the web sites that have these are not very accessible.  I could use itunes, but I have not found a reliable method for burning CD's without using the mouse.  So I have no idea how this could be done.  I would think that walking into a lesson carrying a laptop is not practical.  I play piano, so do you think I could avoid this by saying that I could play the chords on the piano? Someone who has gone through this, please help.  I would like to study with him since his rate is reasonable, at $10 per half hour.  He does know that I am visually impaired and is fine with that issue.  However, I just don't know how to deal with this issue.  If you have ever burned a CD using JAWS, how do you do it? Itunes is what I normally use, but if I have to do it with Windows Media player, I could do it.  The only reason I prefer itunes is because I use an ipod.  Or is there another free source where I can find backing tracks which would be more accessible? Is youtube good? I've used it for other things, but I have found that JAWS tends to interfere with the video a lot.  So, fellow JAWS users, what do you recommend? Can I use the excuse that I cannot get a backing track because of the issues I described above?
> Thanks,
> Kelsey Nicolay
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 21:16:07 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:16:07 +0100
Subject: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed
In-Reply-To: <B3912EFD-78EB-495E-9CF2-87A8768E102D@gmail.com>
References: <525c4b58.450d320a.056a.684a@mx.google.com>
	<B3912EFD-78EB-495E-9CF2-87A8768E102D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH68Np9OMXDRhABbdwCJfP-LwY1yODhMmRDM2kCrJdQYNDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Kelsey,
I use Expressburn which you can buy from NCHZ Software. It's very
reasonable and it's very accessible indeed. I use Jaws as well and it
tells you everything. You need a sighted person to read you the
keystrokes but once that's done, you're set up forever!

What's the other teacher like. This one sounds like a waste of space.
I had a teacher who used backing tracks from time to time but this was
only so that she could walk all the way round me and try duets etc.
You won't learn to perform well if you're keeping to this format in
your classes. As for your playing the chords, how are you going to
maintain good posture if you're playing chords while you're supposed
to be singing. You'd either have to be seated at the piano or bend
over it. It sounds like there's a very good reason why this person
charges $10 for half an hour. What's the other teacher like?

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 10/14/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
> Your question made me curious so I did a couple of quick searches in the
> iTunes store.  I found several tracks when I searched for "performance
> track" and "accompaniment track."  There may be other phrases that will get
> you more results.  Most of what I saw was pop music, musicals, and christian
> music.  I'm sure if you had something specific you were looking for, you
> could try that search and find something better.
>
> As to burning CDs with JAWS, this used to work well with Windows Media
> Player.  I don't use iTunes on a windows machine much so can't speak to
> that.  But, why not just load the track on your iPod and take it to your
> lesson?  Your teacher likely has a way to connect an mp3 player to his
> stereo, unless he has already told you that you need a CD.
>
> The amazon mp3 store is also very accessible.  You could try searching there
> too.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> I am currently shopping around for a voice teacher.  I have found a
>> couple.  However, one teacher has a requirement that I am not sure I can
>> to meet.  The teacher is a vocal coach who teaches his lessons based on
>> his performance experience.  He teaches all styles of music.  However, he
>> does not play an instrument.  So he requests that his students obtain
>> backing tracks for the songs they want to sing.  Since I use JAWS, I don't
>> know if there is a way I can do this.  Most of the web sites that have
>> these are not very accessible.  I could use itunes, but I have not found a
>> reliable method for burning CD's without using the mouse.  So I have no
>> idea how this could be done.  I would think that walking into a lesson
>> carrying a laptop is not practical.  I play piano, so do you think I could
>> avoid this by saying that I could play the chords on the piano? Someone
>> who has gone through this, please help.  I would like to study with him
>> since his rate is reasonable, at $10 per half hour.  He does know that I
>> am visually impaired and is fine with that issue.  However, I just don't
>> know how to deal with this issue.  If you have ever burned a CD using
>> JAWS, how do you do it? Itunes is what I normally use, but if I have to do
>> it with Windows Media player, I could do it.  The only reason I prefer
>> itunes is because I use an ipod.  Or is there another free source where I
>> can find backing tracks which would be more accessible? Is youtube good?
>> I've used it for other things, but I have found that JAWS tends to
>> interfere with the video a lot.  So, fellow JAWS users, what do you
>> recommend? Can I use the excuse that I cannot get a backing track because
>> of the issues I described above?
>> Thanks,
>> Kelsey Nicolay
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 21:21:25 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:21:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed
Message-ID: <525c6096.cc6eec0a.0f64.ffff9c9b@mx.google.com>

Kelsey, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I've 
recently discovered a website called www.musescore.com. It's 
designed to be a source of music for people who play instruments 
such as piano or violin or whatever. People can go to the website 
and listen to songs for free. I don't use JAWS, so I'm not sure 
how accessible it is.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:04:21 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed

Your question made me curious so I did a couple of quick searches 
in the iTunes store.  I found several tracks when I searched for 
"performance track" and "accompaniment track."  There may be 
other phrases that will get you more results.  Most of what I saw 
was pop music, musicals, and christian music.  I'm sure if you 
had something specific you were looking for, you could try that 
search and find something better.

As to burning CDs with JAWS, this used to work well with Windows 
Media Player.  I don't use iTunes on a windows machine much so 
can't speak to that.  But, why not just load the track on your 
iPod and take it to your lesson?  Your teacher likely has a way 
to connect an mp3 player to his stereo, unless he has already 
told you that you need a CD.

The amazon mp3 store is also very accessible.  You could try 
searching there too.

Best of luck,

Greg


On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Kelsey Nicolay 
<piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Hello,
 I am currently shopping around for a voice teacher.  I have 
found a couple.  However, one teacher has a requirement that I am 
not sure I can to meet.  The teacher is a vocal coach who teaches 
his lessons based on his performance experience.  He teaches all 
styles of music.  However, he does not play an instrument.  So he 
requests that his students obtain backing tracks for the songs 
they want to sing.  Since I use JAWS, I don't know if there is a 
way I can do this.  Most of the web sites that have these are not 
very accessible.  I could use itunes, but I have not found a 
reliable method for burning CD's without using the mouse.  So I 
have no idea how this could be done.  I would think that walking 
into a lesson carrying a laptop is not practical.  I play piano, 
so do you think I could avoid this by saying that I could play 
the chords on the piano? Someone who has gone through this, 
please help.  I would like to study with him since his rate is 
reasonable, at $10 per half hour.  He does know that I am 
visually impaired and is fine with that issue.  However, I just 
don't know how to deal with this issue.  If you have ever burned 
a CD using JAWS, how do you do it? Itunes is what I normally use, 
but if I have to do it with Windows Media player, I could do it.  
The only reason I prefer itunes is because I use an ipod.  Or is 
there another free source where I can find backing tracks which 
would be more accessible? Is youtube good? I've used it for other 
things, but I have found that JAWS tends to interfere with the 
video a lot.  So, fellow JAWS users, what do you recommend? Can I 
use the excuse that I cannot get a backing track because of the 
issues I described above?
 Thanks,
 Kelsey Nicolay

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gm
ail.com


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com


From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 22:09:16 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:09:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] temp jobs
References: <4CE2701FB0224504B13CFA6A21DDC82B@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <A733813BDB32449BB0527765E3779B9A@HP30910210001>

I have a called the temp agencies and they said that they would make 
acomodations.
I would have your own screen reader or other adaptive software with you in 
case they don't have any acomodation in place
Best,
Melissa Green  and Pj
"There's a God that loves you, you matter, & you have value & purpose."
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 8:21 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] temp jobs


Hi all,

As we know the economy is not conducive to finding much full time 
employment. I’m out of  college and trying to figure out where I may fit; I 
can be a clerical assistant but I also feel I’d fit in a communications 
field because I love writing true stories; I’m not into writing fiction.

I came across a temp agency that employs qualified people to do writing 
tasks, editing, and desktop publishing, and administrative jobs.
Has anyone done or heard of a blind person working a temp job?
I certainly do not know of anyone getting a temp job who is blind or with 
any disability.
I do not know if temp agencies are covered by the ADA.

It seems like worth trying because if I did find a job through them and 
liked it, it would give me good experience and cash.
I also feel working a temp job may help me get a feel for what sort of work 
I want to do.

I’m concerned about the screening tests with the computer. I’m hopeful that 
if I explain my screen reader and how I need it as an accomodation, they 
will be accomodating and download a demo of jaws for me.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Also, do you all feel that performing the following little jobs are doable?
I say little as they are not full time work, but rather used to give you 
experience and money until you find a full time job. This is why there is a 
turnover of personnel.
The jobs are:

1. selling movie tickets
2. working at a box office which involves answering customer questions, 
selling tickets via phone and in person, and database entry
3. working at a museum gallery or information desk; this mainly involves 
interacting with visitors to answer questions and some job descriptions say 
care of the galleries/exhibitions.
4. caring for animals and walking them at animal shelter.

I am not interested in animals as a job btw  but know of friends who might 
be.
I have not heard of blind people doing these jobs. The only  visual job is 
the museum one. But even then some textures or making labels may help one 
navigate a gallery. I also have some central vision which may help me handle 
money, although most of it is done via credit cards now.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Ashley
_______________________________________________
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From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 22:14:26 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 23:14:26 +0100
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
 being compassionate
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH68x421hz0p4urNeD5yG+iTpJ8hGb+1cPik6pmxj+HUWnA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Kaiti,
It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The best
thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.

It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, take
a mental break from it.
Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>
> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
> that is what this is like a bit.
>
> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
> a person, too.
>
> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
> through it.
>
> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From louvins at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 22:40:05 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:40:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed
In-Reply-To: <525c6096.cc6eec0a.0f64.ffff9c9b@mx.google.com>
References: <525c6096.cc6eec0a.0f64.ffff9c9b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9s3wNxL83W_k4rKh8JROmCxGZ4zb4OPaWjJJPtfdddUsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kelsey.  I have never taken voice lessons before, but your
situation is interesting.  I am a guitar player so, if I wanted to
take voice lessons, I wouldn't want to use backing tracks at all.  I
would go to a voice teacher, so I could improve my singing technique
and that's all.  Personally, I don't like backing tracks at all.  If I
learn a song on the guitar to sing at church, I play along with the
original song which includes vocals, and not just music.  For a lot of
the kind of old country and bluegrass songs I play along with, there
wouldn't be any backing tracks to use even if I wanted them.  So if a
voice teacher told me, they wanted me to bring along a backing track,
to some bluegrass song, I'd have to tell that person the track doesn't
exist.  Good luck.  I use express burn if I need to make cd's, and it
is a very very good program for burning cd's.  I'd highly recommend
it.  Good luck.

On 10/14/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Kelsey, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I've
> recently discovered a website called www.musescore.com. It's
> designed to be a source of music for people who play instruments
> such as piano or violin or whatever. People can go to the website
> and listen to songs for free. I don't use JAWS, so I'm not sure
> how accessible it is.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:04:21 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed
>
> Your question made me curious so I did a couple of quick searches
> in the iTunes store.  I found several tracks when I searched for
> "performance track" and "accompaniment track."  There may be
> other phrases that will get you more results.  Most of what I saw
> was pop music, musicals, and christian music.  I'm sure if you
> had something specific you were looking for, you could try that
> search and find something better.
>
> As to burning CDs with JAWS, this used to work well with Windows
> Media Player.  I don't use iTunes on a windows machine much so
> can't speak to that.  But, why not just load the track on your
> iPod and take it to your lesson?  Your teacher likely has a way
> to connect an mp3 player to his stereo, unless he has already
> told you that you need a CD.
>
> The amazon mp3 store is also very accessible.  You could try
> searching there too.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Kelsey Nicolay
> <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>  I am currently shopping around for a voice teacher.  I have
> found a couple.  However, one teacher has a requirement that I am
> not sure I can to meet.  The teacher is a vocal coach who teaches
> his lessons based on his performance experience.  He teaches all
> styles of music.  However, he does not play an instrument.  So he
> requests that his students obtain backing tracks for the songs
> they want to sing.  Since I use JAWS, I don't know if there is a
> way I can do this.  Most of the web sites that have these are not
> very accessible.  I could use itunes, but I have not found a
> reliable method for burning CD's without using the mouse.  So I
> have no idea how this could be done.  I would think that walking
> into a lesson carrying a laptop is not practical.  I play piano,
> so do you think I could avoid this by saying that I could play
> the chords on the piano? Someone who has gone through this,
> please help.  I would like to study with him since his rate is
> reasonable, at $10 per half hour.  He does know that I am
> visually impaired and is fine with that issue.  However, I just
> don't know how to deal with this issue.  If you have ever burned
> a CD using JAWS, how do you do it? Itunes is what I normally use,
> but if I have to do it with Windows Media player, I could do it.
> The only reason I prefer itunes is because I use an ipod.  Or is
> there another free source where I can find backing tracks which
> would be more accessible? Is youtube good? I've used it for other
> things, but I have found that JAWS tends to interfere with the
> video a lot.  So, fellow JAWS users, what do you recommend? Can I
> use the excuse that I cannot get a backing track because of the
> issues I described above?
>  Thanks,
>  Kelsey Nicolay
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gm
> ail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 23:30:02 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:30:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9s3wNxL83W_k4rKh8JROmCxGZ4zb4OPaWjJJPtfdddUsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <525c6096.cc6eec0a.0f64.ffff9c9b@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9s3wNxL83W_k4rKh8JROmCxGZ4zb4OPaWjJJPtfdddUsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fac5GnKfzDpWRNp=0VyvnYWAm3bJq=13hMcSjcDuqKwmw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kelsey,

I am a jaws user and have used ITunes to burn CDs several times.  It
just takes a lot of tabbing around to find the burn CD button.  I'd
recommend running an older version of ITunes with the tree view on the
screen all the time, not the newer ones which hide it and make you
jump through hoops to get to it.  Just make a playlist and when you
find a song in your library you want to add to the playlist, just hit
the applications key and go down to add playlist.  Once your CD of
backing tracks is done, just go to the playlist, find the burn CD
button, and everything else should be accessible with JAWS too.

This is only applicable if you want to study with him.  If you're
looking for good vocal training, it might be worth paying a higher
rate for better instruction.  Back-up or karaoke tracks are really
tacky, not to mention very measured so they might hinder your
performance as a musician.  It's really hard to be musical with a
backing track because even if you pull off the vocals, the
instrumental part of the piece doesn't match, you can't take liberties
like playing with time, and instead of having the accompaniment follow
you it can in some cases be the other way around.

I'd look into the other teachers around you.  I can sympathize on the
financial end of things as the budget is tight for any student, but
I'd rather spend the money well and have positive results than to have
it go to waste.

On 10/14/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kelsey.  I have never taken voice lessons before, but your
> situation is interesting.  I am a guitar player so, if I wanted to
> take voice lessons, I wouldn't want to use backing tracks at all.  I
> would go to a voice teacher, so I could improve my singing technique
> and that's all.  Personally, I don't like backing tracks at all.  If I
> learn a song on the guitar to sing at church, I play along with the
> original song which includes vocals, and not just music.  For a lot of
> the kind of old country and bluegrass songs I play along with, there
> wouldn't be any backing tracks to use even if I wanted them.  So if a
> voice teacher told me, they wanted me to bring along a backing track,
> to some bluegrass song, I'd have to tell that person the track doesn't
> exist.  Good luck.  I use express burn if I need to make cd's, and it
> is a very very good program for burning cd's.  I'd highly recommend
> it.  Good luck.
>
> On 10/14/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kelsey, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I've
>> recently discovered a website called www.musescore.com. It's
>> designed to be a source of music for people who play instruments
>> such as piano or violin or whatever. People can go to the website
>> and listen to songs for free. I don't use JAWS, so I'm not sure
>> how accessible it is.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:04:21 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed
>>
>> Your question made me curious so I did a couple of quick searches
>> in the iTunes store.  I found several tracks when I searched for
>> "performance track" and "accompaniment track."  There may be
>> other phrases that will get you more results.  Most of what I saw
>> was pop music, musicals, and christian music.  I'm sure if you
>> had something specific you were looking for, you could try that
>> search and find something better.
>>
>> As to burning CDs with JAWS, this used to work well with Windows
>> Media Player.  I don't use iTunes on a windows machine much so
>> can't speak to that.  But, why not just load the track on your
>> iPod and take it to your lesson?  Your teacher likely has a way
>> to connect an mp3 player to his stereo, unless he has already
>> told you that you need a CD.
>>
>> The amazon mp3 store is also very accessible.  You could try
>> searching there too.
>>
>> Best of luck,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Kelsey Nicolay
>> <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Hello,
>>  I am currently shopping around for a voice teacher.  I have
>> found a couple.  However, one teacher has a requirement that I am
>> not sure I can to meet.  The teacher is a vocal coach who teaches
>> his lessons based on his performance experience.  He teaches all
>> styles of music.  However, he does not play an instrument.  So he
>> requests that his students obtain backing tracks for the songs
>> they want to sing.  Since I use JAWS, I don't know if there is a
>> way I can do this.  Most of the web sites that have these are not
>> very accessible.  I could use itunes, but I have not found a
>> reliable method for burning CD's without using the mouse.  So I
>> have no idea how this could be done.  I would think that walking
>> into a lesson carrying a laptop is not practical.  I play piano,
>> so do you think I could avoid this by saying that I could play
>> the chords on the piano? Someone who has gone through this,
>> please help.  I would like to study with him since his rate is
>> reasonable, at $10 per half hour.  He does know that I am
>> visually impaired and is fine with that issue.  However, I just
>> don't know how to deal with this issue.  If you have ever burned
>> a CD using JAWS, how do you do it? Itunes is what I normally use,
>> but if I have to do it with Windows Media player, I could do it.
>> The only reason I prefer itunes is because I use an ipod.  Or is
>> there another free source where I can find backing tracks which
>> would be more accessible? Is youtube good? I've used it for other
>> things, but I have found that JAWS tends to interfere with the
>> video a lot.  So, fellow JAWS users, what do you recommend? Can I
>> use the excuse that I cannot get a backing track because of the
>> issues I described above?
>>  Thanks,
>>  Kelsey Nicolay
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gm
>> ail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From oliver.doug1 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 23:57:32 2013
From: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com (Doug Oliver)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:57:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fac5GnKfzDpWRNp=0VyvnYWAm3bJq=13hMcSjcDuqKwmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <525c6096.cc6eec0a.0f64.ffff9c9b@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9s3wNxL83W_k4rKh8JROmCxGZ4zb4OPaWjJJPtfdddUsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7Fac5GnKfzDpWRNp=0VyvnYWAm3bJq=13hMcSjcDuqKwmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001e01cec939$262faaa0$728effe0$@gmail.com>

Good luck on your issue Kelsey.


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 6:30 PM
To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed

Hi Kelsey,

I am a jaws user and have used ITunes to burn CDs several times.  It just
takes a lot of tabbing around to find the burn CD button.  I'd recommend
running an older version of ITunes with the tree view on the screen all the
time, not the newer ones which hide it and make you jump through hoops to
get to it.  Just make a playlist and when you find a song in your library
you want to add to the playlist, just hit the applications key and go down
to add playlist.  Once your CD of backing tracks is done, just go to the
playlist, find the burn CD button, and everything else should be accessible
with JAWS too.

This is only applicable if you want to study with him.  If you're looking
for good vocal training, it might be worth paying a higher rate for better
instruction.  Back-up or karaoke tracks are really tacky, not to mention
very measured so they might hinder your performance as a musician.  It's
really hard to be musical with a backing track because even if you pull off
the vocals, the instrumental part of the piece doesn't match, you can't take
liberties like playing with time, and instead of having the accompaniment
follow you it can in some cases be the other way around.

I'd look into the other teachers around you.  I can sympathize on the
financial end of things as the budget is tight for any student, but I'd
rather spend the money well and have positive results than to have it go to
waste.

On 10/14/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kelsey.  I have never taken voice lessons before, but your 
> situation is interesting.  I am a guitar player so, if I wanted to 
> take voice lessons, I wouldn't want to use backing tracks at all.  I 
> would go to a voice teacher, so I could improve my singing technique 
> and that's all.  Personally, I don't like backing tracks at all.  If I 
> learn a song on the guitar to sing at church, I play along with the 
> original song which includes vocals, and not just music.  For a lot of 
> the kind of old country and bluegrass songs I play along with, there 
> wouldn't be any backing tracks to use even if I wanted them.  So if a 
> voice teacher told me, they wanted me to bring along a backing track, 
> to some bluegrass song, I'd have to tell that person the track doesn't 
> exist.  Good luck.  I use express burn if I need to make cd's, and it 
> is a very very good program for burning cd's.  I'd highly recommend 
> it.  Good luck.
>
> On 10/14/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kelsey, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I've 
>> recently discovered a website called www.musescore.com. It's designed 
>> to be a source of music for people who play instruments such as piano 
>> or violin or whatever. People can go to the website and listen to 
>> songs for free. I don't use JAWS, so I'm not sure how accessible it 
>> is.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:04:21 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] voice lessons help needed
>>
>> Your question made me curious so I did a couple of quick searches in 
>> the iTunes store.  I found several tracks when I searched for 
>> "performance track" and "accompaniment track."  There may be other 
>> phrases that will get you more results.  Most of what I saw was pop 
>> music, musicals, and christian music.  I'm sure if you had something 
>> specific you were looking for, you could try that search and find 
>> something better.
>>
>> As to burning CDs with JAWS, this used to work well with Windows 
>> Media Player.  I don't use iTunes on a windows machine much so can't 
>> speak to that.  But, why not just load the track on your iPod and 
>> take it to your lesson?  Your teacher likely has a way to connect an 
>> mp3 player to his stereo, unless he has already told you that you 
>> need a CD.
>>
>> The amazon mp3 store is also very accessible.  You could try 
>> searching there too.
>>
>> Best of luck,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Kelsey Nicolay 
>> <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Hello,
>>  I am currently shopping around for a voice teacher.  I have found a 
>> couple.  However, one teacher has a requirement that I am not sure I 
>> can to meet.  The teacher is a vocal coach who teaches his lessons 
>> based on his performance experience.  He teaches all styles of music.  
>> However, he does not play an instrument.  So he requests that his 
>> students obtain backing tracks for the songs they want to sing.  
>> Since I use JAWS, I don't know if there is a way I can do this.  Most 
>> of the web sites that have these are not very accessible.  I could 
>> use itunes, but I have not found a reliable method for burning CD's 
>> without using the mouse.  So I have no idea how this could be done.  
>> I would think that walking into a lesson carrying a laptop is not 
>> practical.  I play piano, so do you think I could avoid this by 
>> saying that I could play the chords on the piano? Someone who has 
>> gone through this, please help.  I would like to study with him since 
>> his rate is reasonable, at $10 per half hour.  He does know that I am 
>> visually impaired and is fine with that issue.  However, I just don't 
>> know how to deal with this issue.  If you have ever burned a CD using 
>> JAWS, how do you do it? Itunes is what I normally use, but if I have 
>> to do it with Windows Media player, I could do it.
>> The only reason I prefer itunes is because I use an ipod.  Or is 
>> there another free source where I can find backing tracks which would 
>> be more accessible? Is youtube good? I've used it for other things, 
>> but I have found that JAWS tends to interfere with the video a lot.  
>> So, fellow JAWS users, what do you recommend? Can I use the excuse 
>> that I cannot get a backing track because of the issues I described 
>> above?
>>  Thanks,
>>  Kelsey Nicolay
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>> for nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gm
>> ail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
> 40gmail.com
>


--
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 00:49:02 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:49:02 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
 being compassionate
In-Reply-To: <CAJcYH68x421hz0p4urNeD5yG+iTpJ8hGb+1cPik6pmxj+HUWnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH68x421hz0p4urNeD5yG+iTpJ8hGb+1cPik6pmxj+HUWnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJB7NX3GWUcVdWgOp=ecJ3_ky6JUcLuF3-9bccwL2pfdrA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti and all,

I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.

Best,
Arielle

On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Kaiti,
> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The best
> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>
> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, take
> a mental break from it.
> Very best wishes,
> Sandra.
>
> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>
>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>
>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
>> a person, too.
>>
>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>> through it.
>>
>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Soprano Singer
>  www.sandragayer.com
>
> Broadcast Presenter
>
> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 15 00:51:59 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:51:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Cabs] TVI Braille Training
In-Reply-To: <39953CCA-5184-4118-B8AE-A0DFF89C354F@gmail.com>
References: <1381437622.31273.32550741.567FACF1@webmail.messagingengine.com><CALAYQJDSK3sYXO7jf3ZfYPXtmTbAATbPfAcLsKLeC_9qKQphjg@mail.gmail.com><003a01cec622$4284f300$c78ed900$@gmail.com><CAFja7FZKx7H9rn+H0eivx8cM_-zqX5=CcmFgV=MDJLaSAQmJ7Q@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJBe01rg=JWzu044hL6BwQXiC7zy=e8AMndRA84ij_faQw@mail.gmail.com><CAAJqG9gNBcdj0_9h-2dUzg8aV50RQ+rzaef7GXcngQ7McOVRRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<39953CCA-5184-4118-B8AE-A0DFF89C354F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C3D57E23F4948C0A770BEB3602EDC68@OwnerPC>

Greg,
that's right. All programs include a braille course or multiple courses. The 
quality just varies.
Ashley 



From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 15 02:44:59 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:44:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Camera Certification
Message-ID: <40C2F749-EEA1-49E6-92C6-023CA35FB9F4@yahoo.com>

Hello everyone, 

I am a Journalism major. I'm taking a class that requires me to record and edit TV News styled packages. I will be using a professional type of camera to do this. I am slowly learning all of the parts and the department is working with me. 

Just wanted know know is anyone else has ever shot and edited video, and if you had any suggestions or tips on how to do this more efficiently? 

Thank you, 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 03:44:40 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:44:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
 being compassionate
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJB7NX3GWUcVdWgOp=ecJ3_ky6JUcLuF3-9bccwL2pfdrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH68x421hz0p4urNeD5yG+iTpJ8hGb+1cPik6pmxj+HUWnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJB7NX3GWUcVdWgOp=ecJ3_ky6JUcLuF3-9bccwL2pfdrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DLGrFN-q0jOJ47SmJ=RKbdE=D1aKh-NwquhyJ5fU9eNeg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti and all,

This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
experience when they are losing their vision.

Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
things.

I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?

Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
experiences represent two sides of the same coin.



On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kaiti and all,
>
> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Kaiti,
>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The best
>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>
>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, take
>> a mental break from it.
>> Very best wishes,
>> Sandra.
>>
>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>>
>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
>>> a person, too.
>>>
>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>> through it.
>>>
>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Soprano Singer
>>  www.sandragayer.com
>>
>> Broadcast Presenter
>>
>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 15 06:13:56 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 02:13:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
	being compassionate
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DLGrFN-q0jOJ47SmJ=RKbdE=D1aKh-NwquhyJ5fU9eNeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH68x421hz0p4urNeD5yG+iTpJ8hGb+1cPik6pmxj+HUWnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJB7NX3GWUcVdWgOp=ecJ3_ky6JUcLuF3-9bccwL2pfdrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DLGrFN-q0jOJ47SmJ=RKbdE=D1aKh-NwquhyJ5fU9eNeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ACE81A28-890F-48BE-9493-D776D2D64020@yahoo.com>

Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is much that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the thought that I could be blind one day. 

My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing to wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her. 

Best of luck

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Kaiti and all,
> 
> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
> experience when they are losing their vision.
> 
> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
> things.
> 
> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
> 
> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>> 
>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>> 
>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The best
>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>> 
>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, take
>>> a mental break from it.
>>> Very best wishes,
>>> Sandra.
>>> 
>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>>> 
>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
>>>> a person, too.
>>>> 
>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>> through it.
>>>> 
>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Soprano Singer
>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>> 
>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>> 
>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From kwakmiso at aol.com  Tue Oct 15 07:43:07 2013
From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 03:43:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Please help with Reading poems online
In-Reply-To: <3C3D57E23F4948C0A770BEB3602EDC68@OwnerPC>
References: <3C3D57E23F4948C0A770BEB3602EDC68@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <8D0979152C2F49D-1C58-3237F@webmail-vd013.sysops.aol.com>

What would be the best way to tell when the stanza break occurs when 
reading poems from websites like this?
Here is a sample.
http://www.poets.org/viewall.php/varType/poems/prmOrderBy/
Would appreciate any feedback.
Miso Kwak




From nfbnj1 at verizon.net  Tue Oct 15 09:02:18 2013
From: nfbnj1 at verizon.net (joe ruffalo)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 04:02:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Thru Our Eyes: Wednesday,
 October 16 at 8:00 pm State  Convention happenings
Message-ID: <auto-000127889642@mailfront4.g2host.com>

On Wednesday, October 16, at 8:00 pm, Joe Ruffalo will feature the goals,
purposes and objectives of the NFBNJ state convention.
the theme is "Who We Are Makes A Difference!"
Call-in guests will feature the Possibilities fair, Exhibitor Room,
Workshops, Division Meetings, fashion Show, Horserace, tricky tray, banquet
and a live auction.

Now you can listen live via phone so tell those you know without an internet
Connection to listen to the live show via phone,
call: 1 347 215 7037.
***
To listen/view log into:
www.thruoureyes.org
or for JAWS and other screen reader users:
http://m.thruoureyes.org
Click/Enter on the listen to get the audio only or go a bit further down the
page for the view and click/enter there for audio and video Also you can see
us live on youtube as well www.youtube.com/wtoenetwork.
To listen to the live show via phone, call:
1 347 215 7037.
To phone in with a suggestion, comment, or just a shout out:
1 888 572 0141

To get any podcasts:
Audio podcasts:
http://www.thruoureyes.org/podcasts/WTOERadio.xml

Video Podcasts:
http://vzaar.com/users/wtoe/podcast.rss

***
hope TO SEE YOU ON Wednesday NIGHT.

Joe Ruffalo, Host




From marketing at codefactory.es  Tue Oct 15 09:14:49 2013
From: marketing at codefactory.es (Code Factory Marketing)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 04:14:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Code Factory Enhances Blind and Visually Impaired
 Accessibility for Windows Phone 8
Message-ID: <auto-000127890429@mailfront4.g2host.com>


Logo Code Factory


Code Factory Enhances Blind and Visually Impaired


(15/10/13) Code Factory Enhances Blind and 
Visually Impaired Accessibility for Windows Phone 8




Terrassa, Spain, Microsoft enlists the help of 
Code Factory for mobile accessibility

Code Factory, developers of software solutions 
for the blind and the visually impaired, has 
announced today that their Mobile Accessibility 
suite of apps will support Microsoft’s Windows 
Phone 8. Mobile Accessibility for Windows Phone 8 
will be offered free of charge in the Windows 
Phone Store. Blind and visually impaired users 
will be able to access and enjoy their devices 
within a suite of accessible apps  for the most 
common wireless tasks. Along with basic 
functionality of calling and contacts management, 
users will have access to emails, web browsing and messaging.

Code Factory CEO Eduard Sánchez explains: “We are 
very excited to see that Microsoft has decided to 
count on our input and knowledge of the field of 
accessibility for the blind and visually 
impaired, based on 10 years of experience 
developing accessibility services for mobile 
devices.  Combining Code Factory’s expertise in 
mobile accessibility with Microsoft’s uniquely 
personal smartphone to enable Mobile 
Accessibility for Windows Phone 8 has been a very enriching experience.“

“I am extremely excited to have Code Factory as 
part of our rich Windows Phone developer 
ecosystem.  Code Factory has done an incredible 
job of bringing their Mobile Accessibility 
experience to Windows Phone,” said Darren 
Laybourn, corporate vice president, Windows 
Phone, Microsoft Corp. “Code Factory’s history 
and expertise of developing products that 
eliminate barriers to accessibility in mobile 
technology made them the obvious first choice for 
us to work with.  We are delighted that Mobile 
Accessibility, with its suite of apps designed to 
make Windows Phone easier to see, hear, and use, 
is now available for Windows Phone 8 to address 
the needs of our blind and visually impaired customers.”

Mobile Accessibility gives access to six simple 
and intuitive apps that will increase user's productivity on everyday tasks:

·          Phone app to place and answer calls, and manage your call log

·          Contacts Manager app for managing 
contacts from users’ Microsoft Account

·          Messaging app to compose and read SMS messages

·          An easy-to-configure email app, compatible with IMAP

·          First-class accessible web browser

·          Settings Manager to configure the app 
details and notifications to fit each user's needs

For more information, feel free to contact Code Factory S.L.:
Code Factory, S.L., C/ Major 19, 2-3, 08221 
Terrassa (Barcelona) 
<http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=2163268&msgid=253430&act=A9KI&c=1030778&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codefactory.cat%2Fhelpdesk%2F>HelpDesk, 
www.codefactory.es Code Factory, S.L. - 2013



This message was sent to dandrews at visi.com from:

Code Factory, S.L. | Major, 19, 2-3 | Terrassa, Barcelona 08221, Spain

Email Marketing by <http://www.icontact.com/a.pl/144186>
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 12:00:32 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:00:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Please help with Reading poems online
In-Reply-To: <8D0979152C2F49D-1C58-3237F@webmail-vd013.sysops.aol.com>
References: <3C3D57E23F4948C0A770BEB3602EDC68@OwnerPC>
	<8D0979152C2F49D-1C58-3237F@webmail-vd013.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1356248910824819399@unknownmsgid>

I have found that in most poems each stanza will have a double line
break, much like a break between paragraphs. If you are reading it
with JAWS or another similar screen reader, your screen reader will
say "blank" when you get to the stanza break. If you down-arrow from
this, you will see the new stanza.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:46 AM, Miso Kwak <kwakmiso at aol.com> wrote:
>
> What would be the best way to tell when the stanza break occurs when reading poems from websites like this?
> Here is a sample.
> http://www.poets.org/viewall.php/varType/poems/prmOrderBy/
> Would appreciate any feedback.
> Miso Kwak
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 18:07:34 2013
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 14:07:34 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Please help with Reading poems online
In-Reply-To: <1356248910824819399@unknownmsgid>
References: <3C3D57E23F4948C0A770BEB3602EDC68@OwnerPC>
	<8D0979152C2F49D-1C58-3237F@webmail-vd013.sysops.aol.com>
	<1356248910824819399@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CAAJqG9hopyA3_vdNS2aXQsSavSXB_iXcOFQ_66XDoM=T6sKYdw@mail.gmail.com>

Another thing you could do is use the paragraph key "p" to go down by
paragraph on the page. Jaws should read you the entire stanza.

HTH,
Minh

On 10/15/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have found that in most poems each stanza will have a double line
> break, much like a break between paragraphs. If you are reading it
> with JAWS or another similar screen reader, your screen reader will
> say "blank" when you get to the stanza break. If you down-arrow from
> this, you will see the new stanza.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:46 AM, Miso Kwak <kwakmiso at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> What would be the best way to tell when the stanza break occurs when
>> reading poems from websites like this?
>> Here is a sample.
>> http://www.poets.org/viewall.php/varType/poems/prmOrderBy/
>> Would appreciate any feedback.
>> Miso Kwak
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>


-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence


From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue Oct 15 19:23:41 2013
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 13:23:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [State-affiliate-leadership-list] help
In-Reply-To: <01f101cec9cf$999dc530$ccd94f90$@nfbga.org>
References: <01f101cec9cf$999dc530$ccd94f90$@nfbga.org>
Message-ID: <01e901cec9dc$0ec34770$2c49d650$@labarrelaw.com>

Vote for our very own Garrick Scott, President of NFB of Georgia,  and
support his dream.  It just takes a second to do.  The link is below.

 

 

http://dream.realeconomicimpact.org/

 

 

 

From: State-affiliate-leadership-list
[mailto:state-affiliate-leadership-list-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Garrick Scott
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 11:55 AM
To: State Affiliate Leadership List
Subject: [State-affiliate-leadership-list] help

 

Could you please vote for me today is the deadline

 

Garrick Scott

President, NFBGA

315 W Ponce de Leon Ave

Suite 801

Decatur, GA 30030

Phone 404-371-1000

Fax 404-371-1002

Email gscott at nfbga.org

 

 

Vehicle Donations Take the Blind Further 

Donate your car to the National Federation of the Blind today!

For more information, please visit: www.carshelpingtheblind.org or call
1-855-659-9314

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
State-affiliate-leadership-list mailing list
State-affiliate-leadership-list at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/state-affiliate-leadership-list_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for State-affiliate-leadership-list:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/state-affiliate-leadership-list_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 20:00:40 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 16:00:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
 being compassionate
In-Reply-To: <ACE81A28-890F-48BE-9493-D776D2D64020@yahoo.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH68x421hz0p4urNeD5yG+iTpJ8hGb+1cPik6pmxj+HUWnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJB7NX3GWUcVdWgOp=ecJ3_ky6JUcLuF3-9bccwL2pfdrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DLGrFN-q0jOJ47SmJ=RKbdE=D1aKh-NwquhyJ5fU9eNeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<ACE81A28-890F-48BE-9493-D776D2D64020@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaaOqhvyYxMZLPrMsZbFsHoX9CzQVHSP15xNUzUDO-OcA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.

As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.

I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
more difficult or frustrating.

I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
 He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
"High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.

Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.

The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
over it for a while and she seemed to like it.

P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
not let her get ahold of it.  :)

On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is much
> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
> thought that I could be blind one day.
>
> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing to
> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>
> Best of luck
>
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>
>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>
>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>
>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>> things.
>>
>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>
>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>
>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The best
>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>
>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, take
>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>> Sandra.
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>> through it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>
>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>
>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> nabs-l:
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> nabs-l:
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-- 
Kaiti


From dwebster125 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 21:04:02 2013
From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 14:04:02 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
	being compassionate
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Message-ID: <004101cec9ea$159ec520$40dc4f60$@gmail.com>

Hi Kaitie.  I'm Dave.  I currently am not attending school anywhere and am
not a student but in a few weeks here will be attending the Davidson program
for independence here at Junior blind out here in la.  I found this topic
interesting because my family has some particular beliefs about blindness
that are not true.  My ysister has actually told me that it sucks that I'm
blind.  My dad seems to think he knows what I need help with and don't need
help with.  An example would be when I moved into my place here in al hambra
he told me that I needed sighted help organizing my closet.  He believs that
blind people can do some things but that the majority of stuff we need
sighted help with.  I can't fault him for that because growing up we were
not part of the nfb.  He believes what he believs with all of his heart but
unfortunately he  and all of the others in my family were miss led.  In fact
when I was growing up, I didn't find this out until later but they had heard
about the nfb when I was growing up but they felt that it was jus ttoo
militant and too radical so they didn't want me to be apart of that so they
kept it from me on purpose.  When I went to the Louisiana center and they
found out that it was an nfb center they actually wanted to fly out there
and bring me back home.  The funny thing was that they had heard about that
center through friends but.  They just didn't realize it was an nfb center
so.  Hoever, I'm gladnow that I'm part of a chapter and am furthering the
great work  of the nfb.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
being compassionate

Hi all,

These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.

As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought about
it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant health issue, but
the fact that blindness is involved really stands out to me.  I think
Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to empathize but now I'm not totally
sure I can really.  I mean, I did have a really bad fear of blindness/going
totally blind when I was about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a
child I didn't quite understand my circumstances.  I think that
understanding that a risk of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision,
and even if I did I could continue what I usually do with some more
modifications.  Once I began hanging out with other blind people my age and
met positive role models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go
blind the next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.

I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I would
feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having not learned
adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted person would have no
clue how to pick up and move on after going blind.  Even simple questions
like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem like mountains rather than
molehills to them.  Things like cooking, sorting laundry, and traveling
around a college campus could seem even more difficult or frustrating.

I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up some
very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition did not
think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
 He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed in is
that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is something to be
mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they can lead productive
lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who acquires a disability has
a much harder time adjusting because they have grown up seeing people with
disabilities as those who should be pittied.  Even if they meet a few people
with disabilities who are really independent, they might not change their
stereotypical view.
E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I am the
first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a blind person
who is less independent to really compare me to or bass that assumption off
of, she perceives me that way because of the stereotypical,
helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use alternative techniques
to do the same things she and my other roommate do.  I also told him about a
comment she made that bothered me a bit; she was saying how happy she was
that she probably wouldn't go blind, and there was a comment from a family
member of her's on facebook that said something like, "The devel will not
win this," so I was kind of taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as
her friend, I might think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of
me/my life?,"
but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot scarrier
to her, and even more so to her family members who have not met me or
another blind person because they just don't know.  I know she doesn't mean
to come across that way, but she did not grow up with the same perceptions
of people with disabilities as I or any of us on this list did.  So, it does
seem weird to me that I am called "High-functioning" rather than
independent, or that I would see a comment that condemns blindness so
strongly, but that is because I had a supportive family, the NFB, and
friends who were either interested in things like braille and my technology
or didn't say anything about my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt
bad for being caught off guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said
that as someone who has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your
life is bad when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at least a
little by showing her by example that blindness does not indefinitely mean
helplessness or dependence.

Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB function.
I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now she is not ready
for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't know if going to a
meeting full of blind people would make her feel awkward.  She knows I go to
chapter meetings, so if the time and conditions are right, and she wants to
go some time in the future, then taking her with me to a chapter meeting
might be good.  I have a feeling that it will be a pretty good period of
time before I can even bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just
have to play it by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is
going.

The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have it
but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further damage will
occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will be there for her.
On the plus, she took an interest in braille last night which she has never
done before, so we were able to geek out over it for a while and she seemed
to like it.

P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will not let
her get ahold of it.  :)

On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively 
> getting worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think 
> there is much that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of 
> the countless abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying 
> sometimes at the thought that I could be blind one day.
>
> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard 
> thing to wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>
> Best of luck
>
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>
>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>
>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due 
>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't 
>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary 
>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not 
>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into 
>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but 
>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must 
>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>
>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before 
>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of 
>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision 
>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and 
>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your 
>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale, 
>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely 
>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing 
>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be 
>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing 
>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different 
>> things.
>>
>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight 
>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this 
>> change the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always 
>> been
>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>
>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and 
>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but 
>> I think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness 
>> all our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of 
>> fear at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived 
>> very productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two 
>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>
>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with 
>>> as NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to 
>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us 
>>> who are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. 
>>> I know that I have offered information and resources to people who 
>>> contact me about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me 
>>> that their parent does not want the information because he/she is 
>>> too depressed or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard 
>>> for me to empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole
life.
>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever 
>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about 
>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come 
>>> across folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and 
>>> would clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about 
>>> using a cane unless they specifically say that they are having 
>>> trouble getting around or identifying their blindness to others, at 
>>> which point I casually suggest that a cane might help with those 
>>> difficulties they are having. I want to give them information and 
>>> feedback but also respect their choices and their feelings about the
situation.
>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen 
>>> to her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you 
>>> do things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other 
>>> blind role models, but that may not be something she is interested in
yet.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of 
>>>> her fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the 
>>>> chances of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's 
>>>> still a chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for 
>>>> that. The best thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her 
>>>> worries and fears and try and comfort her. In short, what you're
already doing.
>>>>
>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, 
>>>> take a mental break from it.
>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>> Sandra.
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close 
>>>>> friend of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if 
>>>>> left untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and 
>>>>> therefore blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be 
>>>>> supportive, because what she's going through is definitely not 
>>>>> comfortable or easy by any means, but she doesn't even have the 
>>>>> test results or know of a treatment plan and she's already thinking
about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think 
>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision 
>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it 
>>>>> could do so in a way that would further limit the sight I 
>>>>> have/make me totally blind at any time if the right thing were to 
>>>>> go wrong having been drilled into me since childhood.  I would 
>>>>> imagine that discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a 
>>>>> person who has spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with 
>>>>> little to no contact with a blind person until they met me in 
>>>>> college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know that 
>>>>> blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by 
>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need 
>>>>> sight to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, 
>>>>> to have a job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that 
>>>>> seeing someone else do things differently and imagining yourself 
>>>>> have to do them a different way is terrifying too, if I had to 
>>>>> suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign language to 
>>>>> speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications of being out
of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while 
>>>>> still showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can 
>>>>> be done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best 
>>>>> ways I can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the 
>>>>> subject that others around her do not, and since blindness has 
>>>>> such a bad connotation, it is possible that those who don't know 
>>>>> much about it are not helping the situation by panicking 
>>>>> themselves.  I'm trying to be empathetic as well, because although 
>>>>> I have lost vision in chunks, I am probably the only person she 
>>>>> knows who has experienced any form of vision loss, and there was a 
>>>>> time in my younger teen years when I was terrified of losing all 
>>>>> of my vision in which I had to put blindness into perspective and 
>>>>> realize that much worse could happen to a person, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't 
>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said 
>>>>> than done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also 
>>>>> reminded her that even if she does have this condition there are 
>>>>> treatment plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she 
>>>>> were to receive the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her 
>>>>> sight.  I do not know what else I could do at this point but 
>>>>> remind her of those things, since the rationalization seems to 
>>>>> help for a while once she thinks through it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences 
>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you 
>>>>> knew there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what 
>>>>> specific aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if 
>>>>> anything, did others do that made you feel a little better about the
situation?
>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would 
>>>>> you suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind 
>>>>> people help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about 
>>>>> is her saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know 
>>>>> what it's like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do 
>>>>> not, but everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%4
>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>
>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>
>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>> l.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National 
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri 
>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the 
>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only 
>> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have 
>> eternal life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>> o.com
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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--
Kaiti

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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 15 21:10:02 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 17:10:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
	stillbeing compassionate
In-Reply-To: <ACE81A28-890F-48BE-9493-D776D2D64020@yahoo.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com><CAJcYH68x421hz0p4urNeD5yG+iTpJ8hGb+1cPik6pmxj+HUWnA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJB7NX3GWUcVdWgOp=ecJ3_ky6JUcLuF3-9bccwL2pfdrA@mail.gmail.com><CAHox4DLGrFN-q0jOJ47SmJ=RKbdE=D1aKh-NwquhyJ5fU9eNeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<ACE81A28-890F-48BE-9493-D776D2D64020@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS21FDE71B27755A53F29242F51B0@phx.gbl>

Hi Kaiti, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I had live with low 
vision my whole life, but my vision went deteriorating over the years, and I 
lost my sight 5 years ago, due to Retina Detachment. But this situation 
never discourages to keep going! If you want you can contact me here on the 
list, or off list in order to tell you mor information in how I handle my 
Blindness and my life story, so that you can encourage your friend, who is 
going this new stage of life. Thanks so much and God bless!! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Bobbi Pompey
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 2:13 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while 
stillbeing compassionate

Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting 
worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is much 
that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless 
abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the 
thought that I could be blind one day.

My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing to 
wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.

Best of luck

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Kaiti and all,
>
> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
> experience when they are losing their vision.
>
> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
> things.
>
> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>
> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>
>
>
>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>
>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The best
>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>
>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, take
>>> a mental break from it.
>>> Very best wishes,
>>> Sandra.
>>>
>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>>>
>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
>>>> a person, too.
>>>>
>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>> through it.
>>>>
>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Soprano Singer
>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>
>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>
>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>
>
> -- 
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 21:48:30 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 17:48:30 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] i phone
Message-ID: <000001cec9f0$4a888cc0$df99a640$@gmail.com>

Does anyone have the manual for the I phone 5?  My model is the I phone 5 c
but I'm sure it is the same.


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 21:57:30 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 17:57:30 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] i phone
In-Reply-To: <000001cec9f0$4a888cc0$df99a640$@gmail.com>
References: <000001cec9f0$4a888cc0$df99a640$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2529814153979247857@unknownmsgid>

You can find a manual on Apple's website.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2013, at 5:48 PM, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have the manual for the I phone 5?  My model is the I phone 5 c
> but I'm sure it is the same.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 22:35:06 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 15:35:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about visual job requirements
Message-ID: <CACUFQdwC34WAR9cT58vAj4FgjG6ESZVMB3e8VXHyocWUhRdeVg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I have an interview for a job that requires surveying an area and
doing walkthroughs. This job is in a homeless shelter, so they are
naturally very interested in maintaining a safe environment for its
patrons.

I really believe that I can do this and develop a rapport with patrons
that is positive and builds trust. But this is a drop-in shelter where
people do not live long-term so I will be meeting new patrons every
day. But how do you combat this in an interview? I can make friends
with anyone I want, but I may not be able to detect things like drug
deals or other unacceptable behaviors that can occur without many
auditory cues. I am aware of the immense stereotypes that plague
homeless women and I certainly understand that many patrons do not
engage in unacceptable behaviors. But I am trying to think like the
interviewer who is hiring someone to cover a liability. Furthermore,
if you do work in this type of environment, how do you phrase
questions as not to invade someone's privacy? From years of working
with children, I know that staying attentive and maintaining a
conversation can tell you almost all you need to know about
mischievous behavior, but advice on being aware of your surroundings
and establishing immediate respect and confidence in others that you
have the ability to do this and that you aren't one to be taken
advantage of is always helpful.

I would love to hear advice and personal experiences that people have
had working in an environment that can become hostile or unsafe.

Thank you.

-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From kwakmiso at aol.com  Wed Oct 16 00:54:21 2013
From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 20:54:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Please help with Reading poems online
In-Reply-To: <CAAJqG9hopyA3_vdNS2aXQsSavSXB_iXcOFQ_66XDoM=T6sKYdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAJqG9hopyA3_vdNS2aXQsSavSXB_iXcOFQ_66XDoM=T6sKYdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D098216266AE4F-1364-7822@webmail-va003.sysops.aol.com>

It was apparently a problem with my screen reader. (I do not use JAWS 
currently)
I got it solved.
Thank you for all who replied.
Miso

-----Original Message-----
From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tue, Oct 15, 2013 11:08 am
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Please help with Reading poems online

Another thing you could do is use the paragraph key "p" to go down by
paragraph on the page. Jaws should read you the entire stanza.

HTH,
Minh

On 10/15/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have found that in most poems each stanza will have a double line
> break, much like a break between paragraphs. If you are reading it
> with JAWS or another similar screen reader, your screen reader will
> say "blank" when you get to the stanza break. If you down-arrow from
> this, you will see the new stanza.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:46 AM, Miso Kwak <kwakmiso at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> What would be the best way to tell when the stanza break occurs when
>> reading poems from websites like this?
>> Here is a sample.
>> http://www.poets.org/viewall.php/varType/poems/prmOrderBy/
>> Would appreciate any feedback.
>> Miso Kwak
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>


--
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 16 02:02:02 2013
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 22:02:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about visual job requirements
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdwC34WAR9cT58vAj4FgjG6ESZVMB3e8VXHyocWUhRdeVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACUFQdwC34WAR9cT58vAj4FgjG6ESZVMB3e8VXHyocWUhRdeVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL125-DS20F356D9D63E687F81754FBA040@phx.gbl>

Hello Cindy,

I think you raise a rather interesting question. Although, I think part of 
the answer would depend on the size of the shelter. If it is a smaller 
shelter, then I do not see how this would be a problem.

However, even if it is a larger shelter, I am not quite sure how simply 
walking through the shelter and engaging with people would not give you 
enough information as to what is going on. I think simply saying hello and 
asking someone how they are doing would be a good way to engage someone in 
conversation without being too overbearing in this type of situation. The 
person may say nothing at all, or they may try to give you their life story. 
I have noticed that it really depends on the person.

I also think engaging people with the notion that they are another human 
being who deserves to be respected can go a long way in gaining respect from 
others. Sometimes people think that those who reside in homeless shelters 
are somehow less than the average person. I am not saying that you hold this 
belief, but if others at the shelter perceive the notion that you do, then 
it may be more difficult for them to trust you and respect you in return.

As far as your concern about the drug dealing, I am honestly not quite sure 
how you would be at more of a disadvantage than someone who is sighted. If 
someone is going to engage in this behavior, then I think they would most 
likely find a way to engage in this behavior regardless of who is 
supervising them.

I have not spent a lot of time at a homeless shelter, but the bus station in 
my town is not exactly in the best bard of town, and there are definitely 
some shady people who ride the bus. I feel as though in general that I am 
able to gain a good sense of people based largely on non-visual cues. I 
would think you would be able to identify these people based on the way they 
behave with you, the way they behave with others, and what they say to other 
people.

Perhaps I am being too naïve here, but it seems to me like there would be 
some sort of verbal exchange regarding the drug deal. And if for some reason 
there was not some kind of verbal exchange going on, perhaps you might be 
able to identify other sounds like the ruffling of a bag of some kind. But 
since the average age of a homeless person is six, I really wonder if this 
is such a big deal.

Anyway, I hope I have given you some ideas for working in the homeless 
shelter as well as for your interview. I feel as though I am not necessarily 
qualified to answer your question, but thought I would give it a try by 
sharing my thoughts and ideas with you.

I really hope it all works out for you.

Elizabeth


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Cindy Bennett" <clb5590 at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:35 PM
To: "National Asociation of Blind Students" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Jobs for the Blind" <jobs at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about visual job requirements

> Hi all,
>
> I have an interview for a job that requires surveying an area and
> doing walkthroughs. This job is in a homeless shelter, so they are
> naturally very interested in maintaining a safe environment for its
> patrons.
>
> I really believe that I can do this and develop a rapport with patrons
> that is positive and builds trust. But this is a drop-in shelter where
> people do not live long-term so I will be meeting new patrons every
> day. But how do you combat this in an interview? I can make friends
> with anyone I want, but I may not be able to detect things like drug
> deals or other unacceptable behaviors that can occur without many
> auditory cues. I am aware of the immense stereotypes that plague
> homeless women and I certainly understand that many patrons do not
> engage in unacceptable behaviors. But I am trying to think like the
> interviewer who is hiring someone to cover a liability. Furthermore,
> if you do work in this type of environment, how do you phrase
> questions as not to invade someone's privacy? From years of working
> with children, I know that staying attentive and maintaining a
> conversation can tell you almost all you need to know about
> mischievous behavior, but advice on being aware of your surroundings
> and establishing immediate respect and confidence in others that you
> have the ability to do this and that you aren't one to be taken
> advantage of is always helpful.
>
> I would love to hear advice and personal experiences that people have
> had working in an environment that can become hostile or unsafe.
>
> Thank you.
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
> 


From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 16 02:24:40 2013
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 22:24:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
	stillbeing compassionate
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL125-DS5187D13F8F20D3EB20468BA040@phx.gbl>

Hello Kaiti,

It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal 
grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For those 
who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a loss that 
needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms with blindness. I 
see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical condition 
that would significantly alter someone's life.

I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for her. 
Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding this 
situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you could 
reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she is going 
through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from what I wish other 
people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye 
condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in the 
distant future.

Elizabeth


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while stillbeing 
compassionate

> Hi all,
>
> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>
> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
> that is what this is like a bit.
>
> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
> a person, too.
>
> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
> through it.
>
> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
> -- 
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
> 


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 16 03:10:25 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 21:10:25 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about visual job requirements
In-Reply-To: <COL125-DS20F356D9D63E687F81754FBA040@phx.gbl>
References: <CACUFQdwC34WAR9cT58vAj4FgjG6ESZVMB3e8VXHyocWUhRdeVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL125-DS20F356D9D63E687F81754FBA040@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBMgNpMA8y1uu69=68==5qb-bhchH9212VT0KPBBgQJJw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Cindy,

I don't have detailed answers to most of your questions, but I would
suggest that you mention your experiences supervising children during
the interview if it comes up or if you are asked questions about how
you would supervise the shelter residents. While there are definite
differences between children and homeless adults, the fact that you
have successfully worked with kids using nonvisual techniques is, I
think, compelling evidence that you can monitor other people's
activities effectively.

Best of luck,
Arielle

On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Cindy,
>
> I think you raise a rather interesting question. Although, I think part of
> the answer would depend on the size of the shelter. If it is a smaller
> shelter, then I do not see how this would be a problem.
>
> However, even if it is a larger shelter, I am not quite sure how simply
> walking through the shelter and engaging with people would not give you
> enough information as to what is going on. I think simply saying hello and
> asking someone how they are doing would be a good way to engage someone in
> conversation without being too overbearing in this type of situation. The
> person may say nothing at all, or they may try to give you their life story.
>
> I have noticed that it really depends on the person.
>
> I also think engaging people with the notion that they are another human
> being who deserves to be respected can go a long way in gaining respect from
>
> others. Sometimes people think that those who reside in homeless shelters
> are somehow less than the average person. I am not saying that you hold this
>
> belief, but if others at the shelter perceive the notion that you do, then
> it may be more difficult for them to trust you and respect you in return.
>
> As far as your concern about the drug dealing, I am honestly not quite sure
>
> how you would be at more of a disadvantage than someone who is sighted. If
> someone is going to engage in this behavior, then I think they would most
> likely find a way to engage in this behavior regardless of who is
> supervising them.
>
> I have not spent a lot of time at a homeless shelter, but the bus station in
>
> my town is not exactly in the best bard of town, and there are definitely
> some shady people who ride the bus. I feel as though in general that I am
> able to gain a good sense of people based largely on non-visual cues. I
> would think you would be able to identify these people based on the way they
>
> behave with you, the way they behave with others, and what they say to other
>
> people.
>
> Perhaps I am being too naïve here, but it seems to me like there would be
> some sort of verbal exchange regarding the drug deal. And if for some reason
>
> there was not some kind of verbal exchange going on, perhaps you might be
> able to identify other sounds like the ruffling of a bag of some kind. But
> since the average age of a homeless person is six, I really wonder if this
> is such a big deal.
>
> Anyway, I hope I have given you some ideas for working in the homeless
> shelter as well as for your interview. I feel as though I am not necessarily
>
> qualified to answer your question, but thought I would give it a try by
> sharing my thoughts and ideas with you.
>
> I really hope it all works out for you.
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Cindy Bennett" <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:35 PM
> To: "National Asociation of Blind Students" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Jobs for the Blind" <jobs at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Question about visual job requirements
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have an interview for a job that requires surveying an area and
>> doing walkthroughs. This job is in a homeless shelter, so they are
>> naturally very interested in maintaining a safe environment for its
>> patrons.
>>
>> I really believe that I can do this and develop a rapport with patrons
>> that is positive and builds trust. But this is a drop-in shelter where
>> people do not live long-term so I will be meeting new patrons every
>> day. But how do you combat this in an interview? I can make friends
>> with anyone I want, but I may not be able to detect things like drug
>> deals or other unacceptable behaviors that can occur without many
>> auditory cues. I am aware of the immense stereotypes that plague
>> homeless women and I certainly understand that many patrons do not
>> engage in unacceptable behaviors. But I am trying to think like the
>> interviewer who is hiring someone to cover a liability. Furthermore,
>> if you do work in this type of environment, how do you phrase
>> questions as not to invade someone's privacy? From years of working
>> with children, I know that staying attentive and maintaining a
>> conversation can tell you almost all you need to know about
>> mischievous behavior, but advice on being aware of your surroundings
>> and establishing immediate respect and confidence in others that you
>> have the ability to do this and that you aren't one to be taken
>> advantage of is always helpful.
>>
>> I would love to hear advice and personal experiences that people have
>> had working in an environment that can become hostile or unsafe.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 16 03:35:28 2013
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 23:35:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying abroad
In-Reply-To: <D0C10A30-31B1-4483-AC02-7268DB654E4C@gmail.com>
References: <CAAJqG9it0RZRMdb0m1iZfwRhO96jtGqMoi=LtYZ-FXF_3nnx1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<A6200A77-D921-4ED8-A882-AFD18B874101@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131011124208.01da6560@comcast.net>
	<CAFja7Faypk8EE_xGUeUR7X7urBrCHnu3SGBQt46pc99+dSRpQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<D0C10A30-31B1-4483-AC02-7268DB654E4C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJqG9iFqP_CXgdGgNaSzRRn9GVzAf6JHZYjr7wHRPLPv4AQMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you all for your input. I am super excited just at the idea of
studying abroad and the only factor that I'm truly nervous about is my
guide dog. I'm not really sure of all the regulations/cultural
perceptions of dogs in the region of Italy that I want to go to and I
don't want it to be a negative experience for the two of us. I am
taking Italian now so the language barrier won't be such a huge
problem.

Minh

On 10/13/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
> I also highly recommend study abroad if you can make it happen.  I spent a
> semester in Salamanca, Spain during my undergrad and took my Seeing Eye dog
> with me.  The hardest piece related to taking my dog was that it took me
> some time to actually discover where to buy quality dog food over there and
> the constant travel without settling in one place meant near constant stress
> on my dog.  Even though I spent most of my time in one city, I never stayed
> in one place for more than two weeks at a time, taking my weekends to travel
> around and then returning for classes.  I had to take steps to give my dog
> time to destress and relax in between.  As always with dog vs. cane travel,
> there are trade offs.
>
> Best of luck as you investigate this opportunity.
>
> -Greg
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2013, at 10:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Traveling abroad is an amazing opportunity.  Having never been outside
>> the continental U.S before, and now being in a major that is even more
>> rare outside of American boarders than it is inside, I'd do just about
>> anything for the experience.  (I'm thinking a summer abroad to work on
>> my minors in psych or philosophy).
>>
>> That being said, not every student gets this chance, so I'd take it
>> and figure the stuff out to make it happen as you go.  Yes, it sounds
>> risky, but it will probably be well worth it, and what Mary said about
>> the language barrier not being too different from the one the sighted
>> students will experience sounds right.  I'd go for it.
>>
>> Best of luck!
>>
>> On 10/11/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Hi, Minh,
>>>
>>>         I have always been very hungry to travel abroad
>>> particularly, after meeting my childhood friend, Tieu, whom was
>>> adopted from the Nguyen Dinh Chieu blind school in Hanoi. While a
>>> kid, I always wanted to visit the school and aexperience Tieu's world
>>> before being adopted by white people. In fact, Tieu recently visited
>>> Nguyen Dinh Chieu as an adult.
>>>
>>> I did get a chance to visit Kukizaki, Japan in '97 with my
>>> juniorhigh's sister city when, a delligation of kids visited that
>>> town where we lived with homestays, touring  some major tourest
>>> attractions such as Niko shrine, a historic monestary  as well as the
>>> sakura (cherry blossom) festival, a day trip to Tokyo, my homestay
>>> itself was an old temple. In my case, a girl, Yuri, lived amungst my
>>> homestay enviroment since, I think nowadays, although it wa great
>>> having access to Yuri's uunderstanding of the Japanese languag, I
>>> didn't get the experience to complete isolation caused by blind
>>> people being without the ability to communicate. Good luck, Minh!
>>>   studied abroad this last summer with my University in France. I
>>> took Stockard with me, my guide dog, and had a great time! You have
>>> my contact information I think, feel free to get in touch with me off
>>> list and I can tell you all about my experience. :-)
>>>
>>>> Laurel and Stockard
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 11, 2013, at 11:32, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking into studying abroad in Italy my junior year and I was
>>>>> wondering if any of you have had experience studying in a foreign
>>>>> country as a totally blind student? I also have a guide dog so any
>>>>> experience from students with guide dogs would be most helpful to me.
>>>>> I'm trying to weigh all my options before I go any further with the
>>>>> application process.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Minh
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>>>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>


-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 16 13:22:44 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 09:22:44 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
 stillbeing compassionate
In-Reply-To: <COL125-DS5187D13F8F20D3EB20468BA040@phx.gbl>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL125-DS5187D13F8F20D3EB20468BA040@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYu5qU4dP-=eFU4c-ffWLHf3DUvXrY7xSdjs74WjRWcYw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense
that her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be
really interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things;
although she knows this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue,
and she has other neurological symptoms including really bad
headaches, she is focusing on the vision thing rather than the brain,
which is actually the part of her body receiving the treatment.  It
also showed me how different religions impact perceptions of
disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think disabilities
are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am a little
more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
failed to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is
far more complicated for her than I even imagined, which really
substantiates what Arielle said about it being very different from the
experience of someone who has always had limitted vision in some
capacity or another, and knows that they are either blind or will
probably be blind in the future.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I
failed to consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering
what else I may be missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a
little more aware of this issue not just for my friend, but also for
other people should I come across this situation in the future.

On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Kaiti,
>
> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For those
> who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a loss that
> needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms with blindness. I
>
> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical condition
>
> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>
> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for her.
> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding this
> situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you could
> reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she is going
> through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from what I wish other
>
> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in the
> distant future.
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while stillbeing
>
> compassionate
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>
>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>
>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
>> a person, too.
>>
>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>> through it.
>>
>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 16 13:44:41 2013
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 09:44:41 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Belp With Article For The Braille Forum
Message-ID: <525e987c.8a8cec0a.2a6e.2e3f@mx.google.com>

Hi everyone I need help writing an tticle for the Braille Forum.  
The article is about how the new Common Core Standards affect 
blind students.  If you can help please email me off list as soon 
as possible.


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 16 18:54:45 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 14:54:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
	stillbeing compassionate
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYu5qU4dP-=eFU4c-ffWLHf3DUvXrY7xSdjs74WjRWcYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>	<COL125-DS5187D13F8F20D3EB20468BA040@phx.gbl>
	<CAFja7FYu5qU4dP-=eFU4c-ffWLHf3DUvXrY7xSdjs74WjRWcYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003901cecaa1$2e5c7640$8b1562c0$@gmail.com>

See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm her
in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them everyday. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
stillbeing compassionate

Hi all,

The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense that
her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she knows
this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on the
vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her body
receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions impact
perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am a
little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I failed
to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates what
Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of someone
who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and knows
that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed to
consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I may be
missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of this
issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come across
this situation in the future.

On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Kaiti,
>
> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal 
> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For 
> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a 
> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms 
> with blindness. I
>
> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical 
> condition
>
> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>
> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for her.
> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding 
> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you 
> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she 
> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from 
> what I wish other
>
> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye 
> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in 
> the distant future.
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while 
> stillbeing
>
> compassionate
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend 
>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left 
>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore 
>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because 
>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any 
>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a 
>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs associated
with going blind.
>>
>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think 
>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision 
>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could 
>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me 
>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having 
>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that 
>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has 
>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no 
>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I 
>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst 
>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her 
>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook 
>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in 
>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently 
>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying 
>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign 
>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications 
>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>
>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still 
>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be 
>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I 
>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject 
>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad 
>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it 
>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to 
>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks, 
>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form 
>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I 
>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put 
>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen 
>> to a person, too.
>>
>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't 
>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than 
>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded 
>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment 
>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive 
>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not 
>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those 
>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she 
>> thinks through it.
>>
>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences 
>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew 
>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific 
>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, 
>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you 
>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people 
>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her 
>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's 
>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but 
>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>> il.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
> 40gmail.com
>


--
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 13:39:01 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:39:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
 stillbeing compassionate
In-Reply-To: <003901cecaa1$2e5c7640$8b1562c0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL125-DS5187D13F8F20D3EB20468BA040@phx.gbl>
	<CAFja7FYu5qU4dP-=eFU4c-ffWLHf3DUvXrY7xSdjs74WjRWcYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<003901cecaa1$2e5c7640$8b1562c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYEqcmNbE3kEczpntNA_yK939UgvfHWn7ynt3hz4Y3fww@mail.gmail.com>

Justin,

Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?

So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.

But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
have to see what happens.

Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
it wrong, I would appreciate it.

On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
> her
> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them everyday.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate
>
> Hi all,
>
> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense that
> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she knows
> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
> the
> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her body
> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions impact
> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am a
> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I failed
> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates what
> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of someone
> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and knows
> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>
> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed to
> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I may
> be
> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of this
> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
> across
> this situation in the future.
>
> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Kaiti,
>>
>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>> with blindness. I
>>
>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>> condition
>>
>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>
>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for her.
>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>> what I wish other
>>
>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>> the distant future.
>>
>> Elizabeth
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> stillbeing
>>
>> compassionate
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs associated
> with going blind.
>>>
>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>> to a person, too.
>>>
>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>> thinks through it.
>>>
>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From juanitaherrera1991 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 15:33:28 2013
From: juanitaherrera1991 at gmail.com (Juanita Herrera)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 08:33:28 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
Message-ID: <6EDED741-B1D4-4C65-9FD9-83B24781EEF1@gmail.com>

Hello all,
I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in high school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is it possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
Juanita 

Sent from my iPhone

From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 16:00:19 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 12:00:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
In-Reply-To: <6EDED741-B1D4-4C65-9FD9-83B24781EEF1@gmail.com>
References: <6EDED741-B1D4-4C65-9FD9-83B24781EEF1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901cecb51$ffb3b540$ff1b1fc0$@gmail.com>

Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
bucks.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita Herrera
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint

Hello all,
I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in high
school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is it
possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
Juanita 

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 16:30:25 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 12:30:25 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
In-Reply-To: <000901cecb51$ffb3b540$ff1b1fc0$@gmail.com>
References: <6EDED741-B1D4-4C65-9FD9-83B24781EEF1@gmail.com>
	<000901cecb51$ffb3b540$ff1b1fc0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B3D25F6DA7AE4C97B4B61EF1A86EF1F3@MistyBradleyPC>

Hi Juanita,
Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. I 
don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip 
format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the 
bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom Scientific 
is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in 
learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and 
Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with 
Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: justin williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint

Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
bucks.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita Herrera
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint

Hello all,
I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in high
school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is it
possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
Juanita

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com


_______________________________________________
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-------------- next part --------------
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From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 20:30:26 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
In-Reply-To: <B3D25F6DA7AE4C97B4B61EF1A86EF1F3@MistyBradleyPC>
References: <6EDED741-B1D4-4C65-9FD9-83B24781EEF1@gmail.com>
	<000901cecb51$ffb3b540$ff1b1fc0$@gmail.com>
	<B3D25F6DA7AE4C97B4B61EF1A86EF1F3@MistyBradleyPC>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Misty!

I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
may be a way to get readers funded.

Cindy

On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Juanita,
> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. I
>
> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom Scientific
> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
> bucks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
> Herrera
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Hello all,
> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
> high
> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
> it
> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
> Juanita
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 20:43:51 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6EDED741-B1D4-4C65-9FD9-83B24781EEF1@gmail.com><000901cecb51$ffb3b540$ff1b1fc0$@gmail.com><B3D25F6DA7AE4C97B4B61EF1A86EF1F3@MistyBradleyPC>
	<CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841@MistyBradleyPC>

Hi Cindy,
Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video 
media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to 
play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to 
click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting 
it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made 
for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or audios 
in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with 
JAWS as far as I know.
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Cindy Bennett
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint

Thanks Misty!

I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
may be a way to get readers funded.

Cindy

On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Juanita,
> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. 
> I
>
> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom Scientific
> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
> bucks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
> Herrera
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Hello all,
> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
> high
> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
> it
> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
> Juanita
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 00:47:23 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>

Is there a good Iphone list serve?


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 00:53:55 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
In-Reply-To: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
References: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD@MistyBradleyPC>

Hi,
There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
The website is:
http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: justin williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone

Is there a good Iphone list serve?

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 00:57:31 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
In-Reply-To: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD@MistyBradleyPC>
References: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
	<9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD@MistyBradleyPC>
Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>

Thank you; much appreciated. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
Bradley
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone

Hi,
There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
The website is:
http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: justin williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone

Is there a good Iphone list serve?

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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m 


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.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Oct 18 02:24:05 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
Message-ID: <auto-000128343859@mailfront4.g2host.com>

Some of you might find this to be interesting.

Dave




>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>
>David:
>
>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>
>Would you please pass around.
>
>Thank you.
>
>
>
>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB 
>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National 
>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser 
>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all 
>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to 
>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah 
>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the 
>country was on shutdown.
>
>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting 
>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille 
>monitor, but it will definitely be on the 
><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>
>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of 
>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we 
>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting 
>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in 
>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>
>
>
>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had 
>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered 
>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was 
>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name 
>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at 
>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us 
>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all 
>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his 
>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife 
>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through 
>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as 
>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking 
>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It 
>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food 
>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>
>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an 
>appropriate name rofl
>Deanna
>
>
>
>
>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>National Federation of the Blind
>631-236-5138
><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>
>

From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 02:29:05 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6@mx.google.com>

Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals 
with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've 
found it very useful.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone

Thank you; much appreciated.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Misty Dawn
Bradley
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone

Hi,
There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
The website is:
http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message-----
From: justin williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone

Is there a good Iphone list serve?

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
%40gmail.co
m


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
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ms2%40gmail
.com


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r%40gmail.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 03:36:26 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
 stillbeing compassionate
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYEqcmNbE3kEczpntNA_yK939UgvfHWn7ynt3hz4Y3fww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL125-DS5187D13F8F20D3EB20468BA040@phx.gbl>
	<CAFja7FYu5qU4dP-=eFU4c-ffWLHf3DUvXrY7xSdjs74WjRWcYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<003901cecaa1$2e5c7640$8b1562c0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYEqcmNbE3kEczpntNA_yK939UgvfHWn7ynt3hz4Y3fww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti,

Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
in her life.

Best,
Arielle

On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Justin,
>
> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>
> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>
> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
> have to see what happens.
>
> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>
> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>> her
>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>> everyday.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>> Shelton
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> stillbeing compassionate
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense that
>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>> knows
>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>> the
>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>> body
>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>> impact
>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>> a
>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>> failed
>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates what
>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of someone
>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and knows
>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>
>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>> to
>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I may
>> be
>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of this
>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>> across
>> this situation in the future.
>>
>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>
>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>> with blindness. I
>>>
>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>> condition
>>>
>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>
>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>> her.
>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>> what I wish other
>>>
>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>> the distant future.
>>>
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing
>>>
>>> compassionate
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs associated
>> with going blind.
>>>>
>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>
>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>
>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
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>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
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From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Fri Oct 18 07:07:23 2013
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
	being compassionate
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Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421@samobile.net>

Katie,

I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.

"The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
> 
> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
> 
> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
> more difficult or frustrating.
> 
> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
> 
> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
> 
> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
> 
> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
> 
>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is much
>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>> 
>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing to
>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>> 
>> Best of luck
>> 
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>> 
>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>> 
>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>> 
>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>> things.
>>> 
>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>> 
>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>> 
>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The best
>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, take
>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> 


From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 12:26:16 2013
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 08:26:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
Message-ID: <TKk4dB1WK0ZZ.LCnjtz48@smtp.gmail.com>



-original message-
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
From: nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
Date: 10/18/2013 8:04 AM

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
   3. iPhone (justin williams)
   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
      (David Andrews)
   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
Message-ID:
 <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thanks Misty!

I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
may be a way to get readers funded.

Cindy

On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Juanita,
> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. I
>
> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom Scientific
> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
> bucks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
> Herrera
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Hello all,
> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
> high
> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
> it
> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
> Juanita
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
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> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Hi Cindy,
Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video 
media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to 
play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to 
click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting 
it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made 
for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or audios 
in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with 
JAWS as far as I know.
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Cindy Bennett
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint

Thanks Misty!

I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
may be a way to get readers funded.

Cindy

On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Juanita,
> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. 
> I
>
> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom Scientific
> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
> bucks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
> Herrera
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Hello all,
> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
> high
> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
> it
> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
> Juanita
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Is there a good Iphone list serve?



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Hi,
There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
The website is:
http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: justin williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone

Is there a good Iphone list serve?

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Thank you; much appreciated. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
Bradley
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone

Hi,
There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
The website is:
http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: justin williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone

Is there a good Iphone list serve?

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m 


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.com




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
	Jernigan
Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Some of you might find this to be interesting.

Dave




>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>
>David:
>
>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>
>Would you please pass around.
>
>Thank you.
>
>
>
>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB 
>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National 
>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser 
>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all 
>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to 
>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah 
>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the 
>country was on shutdown.
>
>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting 
>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille 
>monitor, but it will definitely be on the 
><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>
>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of 
>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we 
>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting 
>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in 
>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>
>
>
>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had 
>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered 
>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was 
>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name 
>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at 
>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us 
>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all 
>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his 
>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife 
>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through 
>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as 
>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking 
>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It 
>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food 
>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>
>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an 
>appropriate name rofl
>Deanna
>
>
>
>
>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>National Federation of the Blind
>631-236-5138
><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
	list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals 
with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've 
found it very useful.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone

Thank you; much appreciated.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Misty Dawn
Bradley
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone

Hi,
There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
The website is:
http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message-----
From: justin williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone

Is there a good Iphone list serve?

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
%40gmail.co
m


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
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ms2%40gmail
.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
	stillbeing compassionate
Message-ID:
 <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Kaiti,

Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
in her life.

Best,
Arielle

On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Justin,
>
> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>
> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>
> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
> have to see what happens.
>
> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>
> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>> her
>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>> everyday.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>> Shelton
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> stillbeing compassionate
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense that
>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>> knows
>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>> the
>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>> body
>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>> impact
>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>> a
>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>> failed
>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates what
>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of someone
>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and knows
>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>
>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>> to
>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I may
>> be
>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of this
>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>> across
>> this situation in the future.
>>
>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>
>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>> with blindness. I
>>>
>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>> condition
>>>
>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>
>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>> her.
>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>> what I wish other
>>>
>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>> the distant future.
>>>
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing
>>>
>>> compassionate
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs associated
>> with going blind.
>>>>
>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>
>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>
>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>> 40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
	still	being compassionate
Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

Katie,

I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.

"The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
> 
> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
> 
> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
> more difficult or frustrating.
> 
> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
> 
> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
> 
> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
> 
> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
> 
>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is much
>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>> 
>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing to
>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>> 
>> Best of luck
>> 
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>> 
>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>> 
>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>> 
>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>> things.
>>> 
>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>> 
>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>> 
>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The best
>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, take
>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 



------------------------------

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End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
**************************************



From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 12:30:05 2013
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 08:30:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
Message-ID: <mkYh2TCzlshz.WvjQx1jY@smtp.gmail.com>



-original message-
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
From: nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
Date: 10/18/2013 8:04 AM

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
   3. iPhone (justin williams)
   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
      (David Andrews)
   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
Message-ID:
 <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thanks Misty!

I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
may be a way to get readers funded.

Cindy

On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Juanita,
> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. I
>
> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom Scientific
> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
> bucks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
> Herrera
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Hello all,
> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
> high
> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
> it
> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
> Juanita
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Hi Cindy,
Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video 
media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to 
play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to 
click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting 
it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made 
for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or audios 
in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with 
JAWS as far as I know.
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Cindy Bennett
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint

Thanks Misty!

I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
may be a way to get readers funded.

Cindy

On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Juanita,
> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. 
> I
>
> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom Scientific
> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
> bucks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
> Herrera
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Hello all,
> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
> high
> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
> it
> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
> Juanita
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Is there a good Iphone list serve?



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Hi,
There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
The website is:
http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: justin williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone

Is there a good Iphone list serve?

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Thank you; much appreciated. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
Bradley
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone

Hi,
There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
The website is:
http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: justin williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone

Is there a good Iphone list serve?

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m 


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nabs-l:
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.com




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
	Jernigan
Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Some of you might find this to be interesting.

Dave




>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>
>David:
>
>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>
>Would you please pass around.
>
>Thank you.
>
>
>
>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB 
>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National 
>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser 
>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all 
>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to 
>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah 
>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the 
>country was on shutdown.
>
>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting 
>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille 
>monitor, but it will definitely be on the 
><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>
>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of 
>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we 
>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting 
>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in 
>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>
>
>
>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had 
>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered 
>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was 
>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name 
>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at 
>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us 
>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all 
>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his 
>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife 
>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through 
>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as 
>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking 
>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It 
>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food 
>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>
>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an 
>appropriate name rofl
>Deanna
>
>
>
>
>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>National Federation of the Blind
>631-236-5138
><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
	list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals 
with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've 
found it very useful.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone

Thank you; much appreciated.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Misty Dawn
Bradley
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone

Hi,
There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
The website is:
http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message-----
From: justin williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone

Is there a good Iphone list serve?

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
%40gmail.co
m


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
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ms2%40gmail
.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
	stillbeing compassionate
Message-ID:
 <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Kaiti,

Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
in her life.

Best,
Arielle

On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Justin,
>
> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>
> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>
> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
> have to see what happens.
>
> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>
> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>> her
>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>> everyday.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>> Shelton
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> stillbeing compassionate
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense that
>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>> knows
>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>> the
>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>> body
>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>> impact
>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>> a
>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>> failed
>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates what
>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of someone
>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and knows
>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>
>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>> to
>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I may
>> be
>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of this
>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>> across
>> this situation in the future.
>>
>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>
>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>> with blindness. I
>>>
>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>> condition
>>>
>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>
>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>> her.
>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>> what I wish other
>>>
>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>> the distant future.
>>>
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing
>>>
>>> compassionate
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs associated
>> with going blind.
>>>>
>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>
>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>
>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>> 40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
	still	being compassionate
Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

Katie,

I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.

"The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
> 
> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
> 
> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
> more difficult or frustrating.
> 
> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
> 
> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
> 
> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
> 
> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
> 
>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is much
>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>> 
>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing to
>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>> 
>> Best of luck
>> 
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>> 
>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>> 
>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>> 
>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>> things.
>>> 
>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>> 
>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>> 
>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The best
>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, take
>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 



------------------------------

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------------------------------

End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
**************************************



From rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us  Fri Oct 18 12:38:29 2013
From: rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us (Robert Miller)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 07:38:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>

Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a 
easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You 
type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines. 
Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading 2. 
Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and close 
the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will automatically 
be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard part 
is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide 
transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can 
send out the simple instructions.
Robert


--------------------------------------------------
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   3. iPhone (justin williams)
>   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>      (David Andrews)
>   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID:
> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. 
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Cindy,
> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made
> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or 
> audios
> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with
> JAWS as far as I know.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cindy Bennett
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
> Jernigan
> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>
>>David:
>>
>>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>
>>Would you please pass around.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>country was on shutdown.
>>
>>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>
>>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>
>>
>>
>>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>
>>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>appropriate name rofl
>>Deanna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>National Federation of the Blind
>>631-236-5138
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
> found it very useful.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
> %40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
> ms2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Kaiti,
>
> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
> in her life.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>>
>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>
>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>
>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>> have to see what happens.
>>
>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>
>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>>> her
>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>> everyday.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense 
>>> that
>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>> knows
>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>>> the
>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>> body
>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>> impact
>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>>> a
>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>> failed
>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates 
>>> what
>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of 
>>> someone
>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and 
>>> knows
>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>> to
>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I 
>>> may
>>> be
>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of 
>>> this
>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>> across
>>> this situation in the future.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>
>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>> condition
>>>>
>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>> her.
>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>> what I wish other
>>>>
>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>> the distant future.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing
>>>>
>>>> compassionate
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs 
>>>>> associated
>>> with going blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> still being compassionate
> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Katie,
>
> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating 
> rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by 
> saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the 
> end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and 
> supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable 
> dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be 
> labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. 
> Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. 
> Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider 
> telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about 
> something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this 
> approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with 
> her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort 
> of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If 
> you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried 
> about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey 
> may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are 
> typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, 
> your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you 
> can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I 
> tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about 
> going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to 
> spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained 
> why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness 
> in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate 
> his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found 
> myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to 
> talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The 
> experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate 
> enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings 
> from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness 
> and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I 
> was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and 
> dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that 
> point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it 
> difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>
> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>
>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>
>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>
>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>
>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>
>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>
>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is 
>>> much
>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>
>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing 
>>> to
>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> (336) 988-6375
>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>
>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>
>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The 
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left 
>>>>>>> untreated,
>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going 
>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision 
>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind 
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled 
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person 
>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person 
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to 
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and 
>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while 
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in 
>>>>>>> chunks,
>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't 
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what 
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, 
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
> ************************************** 



From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 12:40:54 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 08:40:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
In-Reply-To: <861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>
Message-ID: <006301cecbff$496ef2f0$dc4cd8d0$@gmail.com>

Holy crap; that easy then? Yeah, send out what ever instructions you have. I
will have to use powerpoint next semester.  Thanks man.  Good looking out.
Peace. .

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Miller
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 8:38 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a 
easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You 
type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines. 
Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading 2.

Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and close

the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will automatically

be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard part

is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide 
transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can 
send out the simple instructions.
Robert


--------------------------------------------------
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
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>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   3. iPhone (justin williams)
>   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>      (David Andrews)
>   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID:
> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.

>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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m
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Cindy,
> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made
> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or 
> audios
> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with
> JAWS as far as I know.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cindy Bennett
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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m
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
> Jernigan
> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>
>>David:
>>
>>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>
>>Would you please pass around.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>country was on shutdown.
>>
>>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>
>>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>
>>
>>
>>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>
>>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>appropriate name rofl
>>Deanna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>National Federation of the Blind
>>631-236-5138
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
> found it very useful.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
> %40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
> ms2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Kaiti,
>
> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
> in her life.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>>
>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>
>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>
>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>> have to see what happens.
>>
>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>
>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>>> her
>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>> everyday.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense 
>>> that
>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>> knows
>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>>> the
>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>> body
>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>> impact
>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>>> a
>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>> failed
>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates 
>>> what
>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of 
>>> someone
>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and 
>>> knows
>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>> to
>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I 
>>> may
>>> be
>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of 
>>> this
>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>> across
>>> this situation in the future.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>
>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>> condition
>>>>
>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>> her.
>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>> what I wish other
>>>>
>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>> the distant future.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing
>>>>
>>>> compassionate
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs 
>>>>> associated
>>> with going blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> still being compassionate
> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Katie,
>
> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating 
> rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by 
> saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the 
> end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and 
> supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable 
> dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be 
> labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. 
> Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. 
> Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider 
> telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about 
> something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this 
> approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with 
> her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort

> of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If 
> you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried 
> about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey 
> may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are

> typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, 
> your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you 
> can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I 
> tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about 
> going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to

> spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained 
> why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness

> in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate 
> his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found 
> myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to

> talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The 
> experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate

> enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings

> from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness

> and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I

> was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and 
> dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that 
> point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it 
> difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>
> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>
>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>
>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>
>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>
>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>
>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>
>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is 
>>> much
>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>
>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing 
>>> to
>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> (336) 988-6375
>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>
>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>
>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The 
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left 
>>>>>>> untreated,
>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going 
>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision 
>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind 
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled 
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person 
>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person 
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have

>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to 
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and 
>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while 
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in 
>>>>>>> chunks,
>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't 
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what 
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, 
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
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>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>>
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.net
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
> ************************************** 


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From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 12:43:04 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 08:43:04 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
In-Reply-To: <861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>
Message-ID: <006401cecbff$972cfcd0$c586f670$@gmail.com>

To format the headings just use shift alt then your arrow keys.  So shift
alt right arrow, or you can go into the styles menu with shift control s

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Miller
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 8:38 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a 
easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You 
type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines. 
Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading 2.

Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and close

the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will automatically

be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard part

is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide 
transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can 
send out the simple instructions.
Robert


--------------------------------------------------
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   3. iPhone (justin williams)
>   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>      (David Andrews)
>   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID:
> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.

>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Cindy,
> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made
> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or 
> audios
> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with
> JAWS as far as I know.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cindy Bennett
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
> Jernigan
> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>
>>David:
>>
>>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>
>>Would you please pass around.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>country was on shutdown.
>>
>>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>
>>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>
>>
>>
>>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>
>>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>appropriate name rofl
>>Deanna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>National Federation of the Blind
>>631-236-5138
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
> found it very useful.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
> %40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
> ms2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Kaiti,
>
> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
> in her life.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>>
>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>
>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>
>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>> have to see what happens.
>>
>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>
>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>>> her
>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>> everyday.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense 
>>> that
>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>> knows
>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>>> the
>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>> body
>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>> impact
>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>>> a
>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>> failed
>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates 
>>> what
>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of 
>>> someone
>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and 
>>> knows
>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>> to
>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I 
>>> may
>>> be
>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of 
>>> this
>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>> across
>>> this situation in the future.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>
>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>> condition
>>>>
>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>> her.
>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>> what I wish other
>>>>
>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>> the distant future.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing
>>>>
>>>> compassionate
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs 
>>>>> associated
>>> with going blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> still being compassionate
> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Katie,
>
> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating 
> rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by 
> saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the 
> end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and 
> supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable 
> dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be 
> labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. 
> Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. 
> Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider 
> telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about 
> something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this 
> approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with 
> her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort

> of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If 
> you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried 
> about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey 
> may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are

> typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, 
> your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you 
> can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I 
> tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about 
> going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to

> spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained 
> why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness

> in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate 
> his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found 
> myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to

> talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The 
> experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate

> enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings

> from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness

> and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I

> was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and 
> dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that 
> point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it 
> difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>
> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>
>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>
>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>
>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>
>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>
>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>
>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is 
>>> much
>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>
>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing 
>>> to
>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> (336) 988-6375
>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>
>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>
>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The 
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left 
>>>>>>> untreated,
>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going 
>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision 
>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind 
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled 
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person 
>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person 
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have

>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to 
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and 
>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while 
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in 
>>>>>>> chunks,
>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't 
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what 
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, 
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Fri Oct 18 12:42:58 2013
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 06:42:58 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NFBCO Convention Streaming
In-Reply-To: <CA+8hx407J3MO-GrgoYu0P8p4KkaC4i_d7JE8+UGL_rx63AB+VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+8hx407J3MO-GrgoYu0P8p4KkaC4i_d7JE8+UGL_rx63AB+VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <013001cecbff$94ff4760$befdd620$@labarrelaw.com>

Greetings, please see the below links about our Convention streaming.  You
can go to www.nfbco.org and find our convention agenda there.  The first
session will start today at 11:00 am Mountain.

 

Thanks,

 

Scott C. LaBarre, President

 

National Federation of the Blind of Colorado

 

 

 

From: Jessica Beecham [mailto:jbbeecham at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 12:51 AM
To: j beecham
Subject: NFBCO Convention Streaming

 

Hello Everyone

 

If you cannot attend the NFB of Colorado Convention this year but you would
like to listen in, here are the links for streaming!  Please pass this along
far and wide!

 

The main convention streaming link is:
 <http://216.241.41.71:8000/nfbco-convention.mp3>
http://216.241.41.71:8000/nfbco-convention.mp3
The backup is:
 <http://4.onj.me:8000/listen.pls> http://4.onj.me:8000/listen.pls
Both will remain active while we're streamin

 

Best Wishes

 

Jessica Beecham


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 12:46:09 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 08:46:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
In-Reply-To: <861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>
Message-ID: <006601cecc00$058baff0$10a30fd0$@gmail.com>

That is going to cut my power point learning down some; I've planned to go
throuth those freedom seminars.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Miller
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 8:38 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a 
easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You 
type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines. 
Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading 2.

Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and close

the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will automatically

be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard part

is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide 
transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can 
send out the simple instructions.
Robert


--------------------------------------------------
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   3. iPhone (justin williams)
>   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>      (David Andrews)
>   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID:
> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.

>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Cindy,
> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made
> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or 
> audios
> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with
> JAWS as far as I know.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cindy Bennett
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
> Jernigan
> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>
>>David:
>>
>>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>
>>Would you please pass around.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>country was on shutdown.
>>
>>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>
>>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>
>>
>>
>>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>
>>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>appropriate name rofl
>>Deanna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>National Federation of the Blind
>>631-236-5138
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
> found it very useful.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
> %40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
> ms2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Kaiti,
>
> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
> in her life.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>>
>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>
>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>
>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>> have to see what happens.
>>
>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>
>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>>> her
>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>> everyday.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense 
>>> that
>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>> knows
>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>>> the
>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>> body
>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>> impact
>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>>> a
>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>> failed
>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates 
>>> what
>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of 
>>> someone
>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and 
>>> knows
>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>> to
>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I 
>>> may
>>> be
>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of 
>>> this
>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>> across
>>> this situation in the future.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>
>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>> condition
>>>>
>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>> her.
>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>> what I wish other
>>>>
>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>> the distant future.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing
>>>>
>>>> compassionate
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs 
>>>>> associated
>>> with going blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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l.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> still being compassionate
> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Katie,
>
> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating 
> rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by 
> saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the 
> end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and 
> supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable 
> dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be 
> labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. 
> Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. 
> Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider 
> telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about 
> something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this 
> approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with 
> her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort

> of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If 
> you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried 
> about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey 
> may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are

> typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, 
> your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you 
> can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I 
> tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about 
> going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to

> spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained 
> why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness

> in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate 
> his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found 
> myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to

> talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The 
> experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate

> enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings

> from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness

> and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I

> was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and 
> dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that 
> point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it 
> difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>
> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>
>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>
>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>
>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>
>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>
>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>
>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is 
>>> much
>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>
>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing 
>>> to
>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> (336) 988-6375
>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>
>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>
>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The 
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left 
>>>>>>> untreated,
>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going 
>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision 
>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind 
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled 
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person 
>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person 
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have

>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to 
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and 
>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while 
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in 
>>>>>>> chunks,
>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't 
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what 
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, 
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai
l.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile
.net
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
> ************************************** 


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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.com



From rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us  Fri Oct 18 12:52:25 2013
From: rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us (Robert Miller)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 07:52:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Easy way to create PowerPoint slideshows
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <F94C620EFCAE4CDB9FD61FE104233D37@osb.local>

Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a
easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You
type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines.
Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading 2.
Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and close
the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will automatically
be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard part
is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide
transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can
send out the simple instructions.
Robert


--------------------------------------------------
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   3. iPhone (justin williams)
>   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>      (David Andrews)
>   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID:
> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. 
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Cindy,
> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made
> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or 
> audios
> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with
> JAWS as far as I know.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cindy Bennett
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
> Jernigan
> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>
>>David:
>>
>>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>
>>Would you please pass around.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>country was on shutdown.
>>
>>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>
>>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>
>>
>>
>>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>
>>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>appropriate name rofl
>>Deanna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>National Federation of the Blind
>>631-236-5138
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
> found it very useful.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
> %40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
> ms2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Kaiti,
>
> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
> in her life.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>>
>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>
>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>
>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>> have to see what happens.
>>
>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>
>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>>> her
>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>> everyday.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense 
>>> that
>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>> knows
>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>>> the
>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>> body
>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>> impact
>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>>> a
>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>> failed
>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates 
>>> what
>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of 
>>> someone
>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and 
>>> knows
>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>> to
>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I 
>>> may
>>> be
>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of 
>>> this
>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>> across
>>> this situation in the future.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>
>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>> condition
>>>>
>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>> her.
>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>> what I wish other
>>>>
>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>> the distant future.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing
>>>>
>>>> compassionate
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs 
>>>>> associated
>>> with going blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> still being compassionate
> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Katie,
>
> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating 
> rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by 
> saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the 
> end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and 
> supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable 
> dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be 
> labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. 
> Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. 
> Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider 
> telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about 
> something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this 
> approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with 
> her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort 
> of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If 
> you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried 
> about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey 
> may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are 
> typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, 
> your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you 
> can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I 
> tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about 
> going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to 
> spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained 
> why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness 
> in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate 
> his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found 
> myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to 
> talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The 
> experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate 
> enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings 
> from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness 
> and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I 
> was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and 
> dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that 
> point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it 
> difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>
> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>
>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>
>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>
>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>
>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>
>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>
>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is 
>>> much
>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>
>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing 
>>> to
>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> (336) 988-6375
>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>
>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>
>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The 
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left 
>>>>>>> untreated,
>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going 
>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision 
>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind 
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled 
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person 
>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person 
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to 
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and 
>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while 
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in 
>>>>>>> chunks,
>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't 
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what 
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, 
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
> ************************************** 



From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 13:00:08 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:00:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
	stillbeing compassionate
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYEqcmNbE3kEczpntNA_yK939UgvfHWn7ynt3hz4Y3fww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>	<COL125-DS5187D13F8F20D3EB20468BA040@phx.gbl>	<CAFja7FYu5qU4dP-=eFU4c-ffWLHf3DUvXrY7xSdjs74WjRWcYw@mail.gmail.com>	<003901cecaa1$2e5c7640$8b1562c0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYEqcmNbE3kEczpntNA_yK939UgvfHWn7ynt3hz4Y3fww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006901cecc01$f962abf0$ec2803d0$@gmail.com>

Use positive affirmations.  Try to find things that Dr. Jernagon or Dr.
Mauer said.  Try to find out what she thinks is so terrible, then show her
how you or someone else surmounted the obstacle.   Try to keep the negative
phrasing out.  The more negative she is, the more likely she will be to lose
her sight, but don't tell her that.  The more positive she is, the less
likely she is to lose her sight.  Napoleon hill does a great job of
explaining this concept in his books.  The more positive she is, the easier
it is to adjust.  Keep in mind, at times, you just have to let someone go
through their stages of loss, and you can't stop them from doing serious
damage.  Some of it is understandable, but she has not lost her sight yet,
so do your best to keep her positive. Remember, don't do yourself any hamr;
if it gets out of hand, then back off and take care of you.  
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:39 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
stillbeing compassionate

Justin,

Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?

So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has vision
(correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this could
potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I don't want to
make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing that she hasn't
lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but not enough to even keep
her from driving).  But, she sees this as a major issue at least right now,
so I'm worried that if I put emphasis on the fact that she still has the
majority of her vision that she'll 1, lash out and take me as not being
supportive, and 2, really get confused on how to feel about things, more
than she already seems to be.  She's not very open to talking about how she
feels about it now, other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being
placed on the vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.

But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off, this
could be something that really works along witth showing her that blindness
isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll have to see what
happens.

Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading it
wrong, I would appreciate it.

On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will 
> affirm her in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read 
> them everyday.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti 
> Shelton
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while 
> stillbeing compassionate
>
> Hi all,
>
> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of 
> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense 
> that her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be 
> really interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; 
> although she knows this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, 
> and she has other neurological symptoms including really bad 
> headaches, she is focusing on the vision thing rather than the brain, 
> which is actually the part of her body receiving the treatment.  It 
> also showed me how different religions impact perceptions of 
> disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think disabilities 
> are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am a little 
> more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or 
> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply 
> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are 
> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of 
> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I 
> failed to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is 
> far more complicated for her than I even imagined, which really 
> substantiates what Arielle said about it being very different from the 
> experience of someone who has always had limitted vision in some 
> capacity or another, and knows that they are either blind or will probably
be blind in the future.
>
> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I 
> failed to consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering 
> what else I may be missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a 
> little more aware of this issue not just for my friend, but also for 
> other people should I come across this situation in the future.
>
> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Kaiti,
>>
>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the 
>> normal grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in 
>> life. For those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is 
>> definitely a loss that needs to be grieved during the process of 
>> coming to terms with blindness. I
>>
>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical 
>> condition
>>
>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>
>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for her.
>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding 
>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps 
>> you could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what 
>> she is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes 
>> from what I wish other
>>
>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye 
>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in 
>> the distant future.
>>
>> Elizabeth
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while 
>> stillbeing
>>
>> compassionate
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend 
>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left 
>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore 
>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, 
>>> because what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or 
>>> easy by any means, but she doesn't even have the test results or 
>>> know of a treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what 
>>> ifs associated
> with going blind.
>>>
>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think 
>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision 
>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it 
>>> could do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make 
>>> me totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong 
>>> having been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that 
>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has 
>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no 
>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I 
>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst 
>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her 
>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to 
>>> cook and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be 
>>> successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things 
>>> differently and imagining yourself have to do them a different way 
>>> is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign 
>>> language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about 
>>> the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what
this is like a bit.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while 
>>> still showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be 
>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I 
>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject 
>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad 
>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it 
>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying 
>>> to be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in 
>>> chunks, I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced 
>>> any form of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen 
>>> years when I was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had 
>>> to put blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could 
>>> happen to a person, too.
>>>
>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't 
>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than 
>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded 
>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment 
>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to 
>>> receive the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I 
>>> do not know what else I could do at this point but remind her of 
>>> those things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while 
>>> once she thinks through it.
>>>
>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences 
>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew 
>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what 
>>> specific aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if 
>>> anything, did others do that made you feel a little better about the
situation?
>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you 
>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people 
>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her 
>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's 
>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but 
>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotm
>>> a
>>> il.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104
>> %
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4
> 0gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
> 40gmail.com
>


--
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 13:28:45 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:28:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
 stillbeing compassionate
In-Reply-To: <006901cecc01$f962abf0$ec2803d0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYEFL+7aGge7vwg0BJ0N+c8GN56XG0dPrSFH19YQWBcxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL125-DS5187D13F8F20D3EB20468BA040@phx.gbl>
	<CAFja7FYu5qU4dP-=eFU4c-ffWLHf3DUvXrY7xSdjs74WjRWcYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<003901cecaa1$2e5c7640$8b1562c0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYEqcmNbE3kEczpntNA_yK939UgvfHWn7ynt3hz4Y3fww@mail.gmail.com>
	<006901cecc01$f962abf0$ec2803d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaiN_Sn4p6zLWa+ji2m+QyXHHiaj1DndbcAKtxs_F10+g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Thank you, between these three explanations I have a good idea of what
Justin originally suggested.  I think it could be really beneficial
after a little while longer.

We have the same voice teacher, and she took my entire lesson
yesterday to just talk things out with me.  Like Justin said, she
stressed taking care of me if I start to get overwhelmed.  She's
basically said that if we need help she's willing to give it, so it's
great to have someone else around who cares about me and my roommates
who is willing to do that.  I've found that talking about stuff is
really helpful for me, so although I didn't sing a note yesterday I
really felt better afterwards.

I also I'll wait a bit, then see if she'd be receptive to talking
about these issues.  I don't want to make her feel like I'm pushing
her now, but maybe after a while talking through them would really
help.  I really like the idea of self-affirmation too.

On 10/18/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Use positive affirmations.  Try to find things that Dr. Jernagon or Dr.
> Mauer said.  Try to find out what she thinks is so terrible, then show her
> how you or someone else surmounted the obstacle.   Try to keep the negative
> phrasing out.  The more negative she is, the more likely she will be to
> lose
> her sight, but don't tell her that.  The more positive she is, the less
> likely she is to lose her sight.  Napoleon hill does a great job of
> explaining this concept in his books.  The more positive she is, the easier
> it is to adjust.  Keep in mind, at times, you just have to let someone go
> through their stages of loss, and you can't stop them from doing serious
> damage.  Some of it is understandable, but she has not lost her sight yet,
> so do your best to keep her positive. Remember, don't do yourself any hamr;
> if it gets out of hand, then back off and take care of you.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:39 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate
>
> Justin,
>
> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>
> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has vision
> (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this could
> potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I don't want to
> make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing that she hasn't
> lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but not enough to even keep
> her from driving).  But, she sees this as a major issue at least right now,
> so I'm worried that if I put emphasis on the fact that she still has the
> majority of her vision that she'll 1, lash out and take me as not being
> supportive, and 2, really get confused on how to feel about things, more
> than she already seems to be.  She's not very open to talking about how she
> feels about it now, other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being
> placed on the vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>
> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off, this
> could be something that really works along witth showing her that blindness
> isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll have to see what
> happens.
>
> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading it
> wrong, I would appreciate it.
>
> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will
>> affirm her in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read
>> them everyday.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>> Shelton
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> stillbeing compassionate
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense
>> that her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be
>> really interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things;
>> although she knows this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue,
>> and she has other neurological symptoms including really bad
>> headaches, she is focusing on the vision thing rather than the brain,
>> which is actually the part of her body receiving the treatment.  It
>> also showed me how different religions impact perceptions of
>> disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think disabilities
>> are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am a little
>> more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>> failed to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is
>> far more complicated for her than I even imagined, which really
>> substantiates what Arielle said about it being very different from the
>> experience of someone who has always had limitted vision in some
>> capacity or another, and knows that they are either blind or will
>> probably
> be blind in the future.
>>
>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I
>> failed to consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering
>> what else I may be missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a
>> little more aware of this issue not just for my friend, but also for
>> other people should I come across this situation in the future.
>>
>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>
>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the
>>> normal grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in
>>> life. For those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is
>>> definitely a loss that needs to be grieved during the process of
>>> coming to terms with blindness. I
>>>
>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>> condition
>>>
>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>
>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>> her.
>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps
>>> you could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what
>>> she is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes
>>> from what I wish other
>>>
>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>> the distant future.
>>>
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing
>>>
>>> compassionate
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive,
>>>> because what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or
>>>> easy by any means, but she doesn't even have the test results or
>>>> know of a treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what
>>>> ifs associated
>> with going blind.
>>>>
>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it
>>>> could do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make
>>>> me totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong
>>>> having been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to
>>>> cook and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be
>>>> successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things
>>>> differently and imagining yourself have to do them a different way
>>>> is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign
>>>> language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about
>>>> the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what
> this is like a bit.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while
>>>> still showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying
>>>> to be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in
>>>> chunks, I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced
>>>> any form of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen
>>>> years when I was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had
>>>> to put blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could
>>>> happen to a person, too.
>>>>
>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to
>>>> receive the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I
>>>> do not know what else I could do at this point but remind her of
>>>> those things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while
>>>> once she thinks through it.
>>>>
>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what
>>>> specific aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if
>>>> anything, did others do that made you feel a little better about the
> situation?
>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotm
>>>> a
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104
>>> %
>>> 40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4
>> 0gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From blacklotus86 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 14:03:54 2013
From: blacklotus86 at gmail.com (zeynep sule yilmaz)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:03:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Easy way to create PowerPoint slideshows
In-Reply-To: <F94C620EFCAE4CDB9FD61FE104233D37@osb.local>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<F94C620EFCAE4CDB9FD61FE104233D37@osb.local>
Message-ID: <CAMRf8a1DjJXWSiEqJ_eUrC0S_ShFaq-i0QzrXx4SkVCQM7p4dg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
 I just want to add couple things that they can be very helpful after
Robert's email

One thing that could really help you is writing an outline in Word and
then once you like your content then importing it into PowerPoint.  I
have created  few power points last spring semester in "Outline View"
and then I attached the PowerPoint document that was created when I
opened the Word document Outline in PowerPoint.  Note that I have done
nothing inside of PowerPoint other than opening the Word outline and
then saving it as a PowerPoint file.  Based on the outline structure
in the Word document it places the content on separate slides in a
logical way.  Doing it this way means that you wouldn't need a
volunteer to place the text on the slides as you could do it yourself.
 You may still want some help with the graphics.

When you are doing this, all you need to do is:
1) Type text
2) Press tab on a line to indent and create a child item in the outline
3) Press shift-tab on a line to out-dent or to make a parent item

The highest level in the outline will be used to determine when a new
slide is created.  All sub-levels become content within a slide.

Thanks and good luck

Zeynep
.


2013/10/18, Robert Miller <rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us>:
> Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a
> easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You
> type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines.
> Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading
> 2.
> Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and
> close
> the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will
> automatically
> be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard
> part
> is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide
> transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can
> send out the simple instructions.
> Robert
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
>
>> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>
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>> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>>   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>>   3. iPhone (justin williams)
>>   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>>   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>>   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>      (David Andrews)
>>   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>>   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>>   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>>      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
>> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Thanks Misty!
>>
>> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
>> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
>> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
>> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
>> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
>> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
>> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
>> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
>> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
>> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
>> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
>> may be a way to get readers funded.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Juanita,
>>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in
>>> .zip
>>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom
>>> Scientific
>>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003
>>> and
>>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>>> Misty
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: justin williams
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>>
>>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>>> bucks.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>>> Herrera
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>>> high
>>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help.
>>> Is
>>> it
>>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how
>>> does
>>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>>> Juanita
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Hi Cindy,
>> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
>> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
>> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
>> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
>> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have
>> made
>> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or
>> audios
>> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button
>> with
>> JAWS as far as I know.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cindy Bennett
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Thanks Misty!
>>
>> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
>> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
>> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
>> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
>> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
>> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
>> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
>> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
>> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
>> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
>> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
>> may be a way to get readers funded.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Juanita,
>>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice
>>> files.
>>> I
>>>
>>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in
>>> .zip
>>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom
>>> Scientific
>>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003
>>> and
>>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>>> Misty
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: justin williams
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>>
>>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>>> bucks.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>>> Herrera
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>>> high
>>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help.
>>> Is
>>> it
>>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how
>>> does
>>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>>> Juanita
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Thank you; much appreciated.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
>> Bradley
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
>> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
>> Jernigan
>> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>
>> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>>
>>>David:
>>>
>>>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>>
>>>Would you please pass around.
>>>
>>>Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>>country was on shutdown.
>>>
>>>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>>monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>>
>>>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>>
>>>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>>appropriate name rofl
>>>Deanna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>>National Federation of the Blind
>>>631-236-5138
>>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>>><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
>> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
>> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
>> found it very useful.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Thank you; much appreciated.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Misty Dawn
>> Bradley
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
>> %40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
>> ms2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> stillbeing compassionate
>> Message-ID:
>> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Hi Kaiti,
>>
>> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
>> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
>> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
>> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
>> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
>> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
>> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
>> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
>> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
>> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
>> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
>> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
>> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
>> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
>> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
>> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
>> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
>> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
>> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
>> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
>> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
>> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
>> in her life.
>>
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Justin,
>>>
>>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>>
>>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>>
>>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>>> have to see what happens.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>>
>>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will
>>>> affirm
>>>> her
>>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>>> everyday.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>>> Shelton
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense
>>>> that
>>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>>> knows
>>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing
>>>> on
>>>> the
>>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>>> body
>>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>>> impact
>>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not
>>>> think
>>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I
>>>> am
>>>> a
>>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>>> failed
>>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates
>>>> what
>>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of
>>>> someone
>>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and
>>>> knows
>>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>>> to
>>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I
>>>> may
>>>> be
>>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of
>>>> this
>>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>>> across
>>>> this situation in the future.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>>
>>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>>> condition
>>>>>
>>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>>> her.
>>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>>> what I wish other
>>>>>
>>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>>> the distant future.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>>> stillbeing
>>>>>
>>>>> compassionate
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs
>>>>>> associated
>>>> with going blind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a
>>>>>> bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
>> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> still being compassionate
>> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Katie,
>>
>> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating
>> rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by
>> saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the
>> end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and
>> supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable
>>
>> dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be
>> labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes.
>> Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues.
>> Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider
>> telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about
>> something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this
>> approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with
>>
>> her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort
>>
>> of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If
>> you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried
>> about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey
>> may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are
>>
>> typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile,
>>
>> your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you
>> can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I
>> tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about
>> going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to
>>
>> spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained
>> why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness
>>
>> in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate
>> his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found
>> myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to
>>
>> talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The
>> experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate
>>
>> enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings
>>
>> from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness
>>
>> and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I
>>
>> was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and
>> dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that
>> point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it
>> difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>>
>> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>>
>>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>>
>>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>>
>>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>>
>>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>>
>>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>>
>>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>>
>>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is
>>>> much
>>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>>
>>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>>
>>>> Best of luck
>>>>
>>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>>> (336) 988-6375
>>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>>> things.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>>
>>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a
>>>>>> cane
>>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The
>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and
>>>>>>> fears
>>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes,
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>>>>> untreated,
>>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's
>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going
>>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled
>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person
>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need
>>>>>>>> sight
>>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and
>>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in
>>>>>>>> chunks,
>>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any
>>>>>>>> form
>>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you
>>>>>>>> knew
>>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what
>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>>> life."
>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
>> **************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blacklotus86%40gmail.com
>


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 18 17:07:09 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 13:07:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
In-Reply-To: <861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>
Message-ID: <6A69B2A0-6924-4039-8A84-D95C6A9645FD@yahoo.com>

How do you set text as headings 1 & 2 in Microsoft Word? 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 18, 2013, at 8:38 AM, "Robert Miller" <rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us> wrote:
> 
> Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines. Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading 2. Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and close the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will automatically be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard part is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can send out the simple instructions.
> Robert
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
> 
>> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>>  2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>>  3. iPhone (justin williams)
>>  4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>>  5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>>  6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>     (David Andrews)
>>  7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>>  8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>     stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>>  9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>>     being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
>> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>> Thanks Misty!
>> 
>> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
>> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
>> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
>> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
>> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
>> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
>> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
>> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
>> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
>> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
>> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
>> may be a way to get readers funded.
>> 
>> Cindy
>> 
>>> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Juanita,
>>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. I
>>> 
>>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom Scientific
>>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>>> Misty
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: justin williams
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>> 
>>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>>> bucks.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>>> Herrera
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>>> high
>>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>>> it
>>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>>> Juanita
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>> 
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>> 
>> Hi Cindy,
>> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
>> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
>> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
>> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
>> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made
>> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or audios
>> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with
>> JAWS as far as I know.
>> Misty
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Bennett
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>> 
>> Thanks Misty!
>> 
>> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
>> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
>> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
>> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
>> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
>> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
>> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
>> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
>> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
>> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
>> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
>> may be a way to get readers funded.
>> 
>> Cindy
>> 
>>> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Juanita,
>>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>>> I
>>> 
>>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom Scientific
>>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>>> Misty
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: justin williams
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>> 
>>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>>> bucks.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>>> Herrera
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>>> high
>>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>>> it
>>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>>> Juanita
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>> 
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>> 
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Thank you; much appreciated.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
>> Bradley
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
>> m
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> .com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
>> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
>> Jernigan
>> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>> 
>> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>> To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>> 
>>> David:
>>> 
>>> We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>> 
>>> Would you please pass around.
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>> Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>> Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>> Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>> involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>> Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>> opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>> country was on shutdown.
>>> 
>>> A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>> for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>> monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>>> <http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>> 
>>> Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>> the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>> stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>> a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>> the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>> at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>> room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>> 78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>> means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>> the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>> he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>> over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>> students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>> was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>> college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>> well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>> about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>> just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>> worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>> 
>>> Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>> appropriate name rofl
>>> Deanna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>> NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> 631-236-5138
>>> <http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>>> <mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
>> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>> 
>> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
>> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
>> found it very useful.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Thank you; much appreciated.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Misty Dawn
>> Bradley
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
>> %40gmail.co
>> m
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> for
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>> ms2%40gmail
>> .com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> stillbeing compassionate
>> Message-ID:
>> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>> Hi Kaiti,
>> 
>> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
>> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
>> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
>> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
>> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
>> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
>> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
>> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
>> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
>> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
>> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
>> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
>> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
>> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
>> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
>> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
>> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
>> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
>> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
>> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
>> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
>> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
>> in her life.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>> 
>>> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Justin,
>>> 
>>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>> 
>>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>> 
>>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>>> have to see what happens.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>> 
>>>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>>>> her
>>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>>> everyday.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>>> Shelton
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense that
>>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>>> knows
>>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>>>> the
>>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>>> body
>>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>>> impact
>>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>>>> a
>>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>>> failed
>>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates what
>>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of someone
>>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and knows
>>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>>> to
>>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I may
>>>> be
>>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of this
>>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>>> across
>>>> this situation in the future.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>> 
>>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>> 
>>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>>> condition
>>>>> 
>>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>>> her.
>>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>>> what I wish other
>>>>> 
>>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>>> the distant future.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>>> stillbeing
>>>>> 
>>>>> compassionate
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs associated
>>>> with going blind.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>>> il.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
>> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> still being compassionate
>> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Katie,
>> 
>> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>> 
>> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>> 
>>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>> 
>>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>> 
>>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>> 
>>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>> 
>>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>> 
>>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>> 
>>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is much
>>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>> 
>>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing to
>>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>> 
>>>> Best of luck
>>>> 
>>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>>> (336) 988-6375
>>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>>> things.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The best
>>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, take
>>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend of
>>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left untreated,
>>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's going
>>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going blind.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision drastically
>>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind at
>>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled into
>>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades as
>>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person until
>>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person by
>>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have a
>>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to using
>>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and perhaps
>>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject that
>>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen to
>>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't even
>>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her that
>>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, did
>>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>>> life."
>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
>> **************************************
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From sjhhirst at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 17:21:22 2013
From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie H. DeLuca)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 12:21:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] New England Alpine Skiing for Blind and Visually Impaired
Message-ID: <CAJojENSQ0uNQ2SNS9jDs=CmOr+dKc5ruBLc7PHgzxAVFM62P6A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone, I participated in a downhill skiing workshop for the blind
back in 2012, and it was a blast!  It's also pretty cheap compared to other
opportunities for skiing for the blind.

http://nevifest.org/index.htm


In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
    ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854

From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 18:14:44 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:14:44 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
In-Reply-To: <6A69B2A0-6924-4039-8A84-D95C6A9645FD@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>	<861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>
	<6A69B2A0-6924-4039-8A84-D95C6A9645FD@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001101cecc2d$ecb7b4a0$c6271de0$@gmail.com>

Whift alt right arrow. Lef arrow will go back down. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bobbi Pompey
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 1:07 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

How do you set text as headings 1 & 2 in Microsoft Word? 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Oct 18, 2013, at 8:38 AM, "Robert Miller" <rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us>
wrote:
> 
> Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a
easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You
type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines.
Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading 2.
Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and close
the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will automatically
be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard part
is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide
transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can
send out the simple instructions.
> Robert
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
> 
>> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>>  2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>>  3. iPhone (justin williams)
>>  4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>>  5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>>  6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>     (David Andrews)
>>  7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>>  8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>     stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>>  9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>>     being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
>> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>> Thanks Misty!
>> 
>> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
>> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
>> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
>> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
>> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
>> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
>> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
>> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
>> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
>> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
>> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
>> may be a way to get readers funded.
>> 
>> Cindy
>> 
>>> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Juanita,
>>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice
files. I
>>> 
>>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in
.zip
>>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom
Scientific
>>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003
and
>>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>>> Misty
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: justin williams
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>> 
>>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>>> bucks.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>>> Herrera
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>>> high
>>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help.
Is
>>> it
>>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how
does
>>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>>> Juanita
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>> 
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>> 
>> Hi Cindy,
>> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
>> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
>> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
>> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
>> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have
made
>> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or
audios
>> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button
with
>> JAWS as far as I know.
>> Misty
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Bennett
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>> 
>> Thanks Misty!
>> 
>> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
>> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
>> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
>> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
>> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
>> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
>> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
>> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
>> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
>> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
>> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
>> may be a way to get readers funded.
>> 
>> Cindy
>> 
>>> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Juanita,
>>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice
files.
>>> I
>>> 
>>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in
.zip
>>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom
Scientific
>>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003
and
>>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>>> Misty
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: justin williams
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>> 
>>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>>> bucks.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>>> Herrera
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>>> high
>>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help.
Is
>>> it
>>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how
does
>>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>>> Juanita
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>> 
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>> 
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Thank you; much appreciated.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
>> Bradley
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
>> m
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
>> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
>> Jernigan
>> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>> 
>> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>> To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund
<david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>> 
>>> David:
>>> 
>>> We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>> 
>>> Would you please pass around.
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>> Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>> Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>> Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>> involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>> Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>> opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>> country was on shutdown.
>>> 
>>> A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>> for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>> monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>>> <http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>> 
>>> Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>> the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>> stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>> a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>> the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>> at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>> room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>> 78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>> means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>> the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>> he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>> over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>> students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>> was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>> college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>> well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>> about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>> just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>> worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>> 
>>> Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>> appropriate name rofl
>>> Deanna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>> NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> 631-236-5138
>>> <http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>>> <mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
>> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>> 
>> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
>> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
>> found it very useful.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Thank you; much appreciated.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Misty Dawn
>> Bradley
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> 
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
>> %40gmail.co
>> m
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
>> ms2%40gmail
>> .com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> stillbeing compassionate
>> Message-ID:
>> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>> Hi Kaiti,
>> 
>> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
>> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
>> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
>> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
>> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
>> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
>> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
>> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
>> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
>> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
>> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
>> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
>> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
>> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
>> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
>> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
>> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
>> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
>> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
>> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
>> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
>> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
>> in her life.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>> 
>>> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Justin,
>>> 
>>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>> 
>>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>> 
>>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>>> have to see what happens.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>> 
>>>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will
affirm
>>>> her
>>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>>> everyday.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>>> Shelton
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense
that
>>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>>> knows
>>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing
on
>>>> the
>>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>>> body
>>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>>> impact
>>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not
think
>>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I
am
>>>> a
>>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>>> failed
>>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates
what
>>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of
someone
>>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and
knows
>>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>>> to
>>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I
may
>>>> be
>>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of
this
>>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>>> across
>>>> this situation in the future.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>> 
>>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>> 
>>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>>> condition
>>>>> 
>>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>>> her.
>>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>>> what I wish other
>>>>> 
>>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>>> the distant future.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>>> stillbeing
>>>>> 
>>>>> compassionate
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs
associated
>>>> with going blind.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a
bit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>>> il.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai
l.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
>> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> still being compassionate
>> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Katie,
>> 
>> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating
rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by saying
that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the end of our
education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and supportive at all.
Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable dialectic between
wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be labeled as pitiful or
helpless like your psychologist friend describes. Dialogue might be an
interesting way to resolve some of these issues. Since dialogue implies two
sides of an issue, you may want to consider telling your friend what it's
like to experience her worries about something that you consider absolutely
normal. At the very least, this approach raises your Friends consciousness
about how you are dealing with her situation from the outside. At best,
talking about blindness as a sort of normal might help alleviate some of her
fears on a visceral level. If you think about it, that is ultimately was
sighted people are worried about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing
your blindness journey may help her realize that attitudes and
misperceptions about blindness are typically the culprit behind negative
feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, your story may also demonstrate your
ability to empathize even if you can't no exactly what she's going through.
Maybe that will be enough. I tried this approach with a friend once. He was
extremely negative about going blind almost all of the time to the extent
that I actually needed to spend some time away from him for a while. When I
came back, I explained why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind
people and blindness in such a negative way that it was difficult to
psychologically separate his feelings about his own blindness from the
negativity that I found myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually
worked! Yes, he continued to talk about his experience going blind. But, he
did so realizing that The experience of being blind is a valid one. From
then on, he was considerate enough to recognize that blindness is my normal
and discussed his feelings from his perspective rather than using absolute
statements about blindness and blind people. Does any of this make sense?
For my part, I found that I was able to empathize to a greater degree
because my own issues and dealing with his blindness had been dealt with
properly. Up until that point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my
mind making it difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>> 
>> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>> 
>>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>> 
>>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>> 
>>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>> 
>>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>> 
>>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>> 
>>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>> 
>>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is
much
>>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>> 
>>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing
to
>>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>> 
>>>> Best of luck
>>>> 
>>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>>> (336) 988-6375
>>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>>> things.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with
as
>>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us
who
>>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I
know
>>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact
me
>>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a
cane
>>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen
to
>>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other
blind
>>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of
her
>>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The
best
>>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and
fears
>>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes,
take
>>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
of
>>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
untreated,
>>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's
going
>>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going
blind.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
drastically
>>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in
a
>>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind
at
>>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled
into
>>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance
would
>>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades
as
>>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person
until
>>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I
know
>>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person
by
>>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need
sight
>>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to
have a
>>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to
using
>>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and
perhaps
>>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while
still
>>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways
I
>>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
that
>>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying
to
>>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in
chunks,
>>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any
form
>>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when
I
>>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
to
>>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
even
>>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
done
>>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her
that
>>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans
which
>>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you
knew
>>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what
specific
>>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
did
>>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would
you
>>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind
people
>>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>>> life."
>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai
l.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile
.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
>> **************************************
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 18 20:03:11 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:03:11 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6EDED741-B1D4-4C65-9FD9-83B24781EEF1@gmail.com><000901cecb51$ffb3b540$ff1b1fc0$@gmail.com><B3D25F6DA7AE4C97B4B61EF1A86EF1F3@MistyBradleyPC>
	<CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91380D3A6EB040C6ABE6104FF6AFB405@OwnerPC>

I agree. There are some formatting things jaws will not catch. So get a 
sighted person involved.
I noticed jaws will not describe the slide background themes. Fortunately, I 
have a little vision to see the colors, but if you don't, you need someone 
to tell you about this.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Cindy Bennett
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint

Thanks Misty!

I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
may be a way to get readers funded.

Cindy

On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Juanita,
> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. 
> I
>
> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom Scientific
> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
> bucks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
> Herrera
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Hello all,
> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
> high
> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
> it
> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
> Juanita
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com

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From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 20:17:51 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 13:17:51 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] The National Association of Blind Students is Looking for
	you!
Message-ID: <10083882-EC3D-4699-B1FE-DB268D9571FA@gmail.com>

Greetings Fellow Students,
  The National Association of Blind Students is looking for energetic and passionate people like you to serve on it's membership committee.
 have a great idea that you would like  to work  on in order to benefit fellow students?
  Want to help spread  the word of the Federation to students across the country?
 looking for an opportunity  to gain leadership experience and become more involved in nabs.
 Well  the membership committee would love to have you.
 if interested, please  be in contact with  Darian  Smith at  dsmithnfb at gmail.com.
  Thanks so much and I look forward  to talking with  you!
  Also, if membership building is not something you are interested in, don't fear the following committees are here:
1. Fundraising.
2. Student Slate
3. communications

 If you have an idea for something that does not fall within any of those areas, please  feel free to be in touch with us; we love to hear from you!
   yours in  the movement,
   . 
 
 

  
Darian Smith
2nd Vice President, National Association of Blind Students
dsmithnfb at gmail.com

www.nabslink.org
Follow the National Association of Blind Students on twitter: @nabslink
> 
> Vehicle Donations Take the Blind Further 
> Donate your car to the National Federation of the Blind today!
> For more information, please visit: www.carshelpingtheblind.org or call 1-855-659-9314


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 20:25:53 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:25:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] New England Alpine Skiing for Blind and Visually
	Impaired
Message-ID: <52619956.272dec0a.253c.0a2c@mx.google.com>

I have skied in Colorado and Utah at an adaptive ski school. The 
Colorado program was a LOT better than the Utah one. The 
instructors in Utah were patronizing and underestimating to the 
point where it was really annoying. I'm glad you enjoyed your 
experience, Stephanie!

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephanie H. DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com
To: David Nannemann <david.nannemann at gmail.com>, "Nannemann, 
Allison" 
<allison.nannemann at tnschoolfortheblind.org>,tabs at nfbnet.org, 
National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,NFB Young Professionals List 
<young_professionals at nfbnet.org>, NFB Science and Engineering 
Division List <nfb-science at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 12:21:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] New England Alpine Skiing for Blind and 
Visually Impaired

Hi everyone, I participated in a downhill skiing workshop for the 
blind
back in 2012, and it was a blast!  It's also pretty cheap 
compared to other
opportunities for skiing for the blind.

http://nevifest.org/index.htm


In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared 
mind.
    ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Oct 18 20:42:43 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:42:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
In-Reply-To: <6A69B2A0-6924-4039-8A84-D95C6A9645FD@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<861125D07132497F8E92C3704813D4F7@osb.local>
	<6A69B2A0-6924-4039-8A84-D95C6A9645FD@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000128961635@mailfront3.g2host.com>

One way is to highlight the text, then press alt-control-1 or 
alt-control-2  you can use up to 6 levels of headings.

Dave

At 12:07 PM 10/18/2013, you wrote:
>How do you set text as headings 1 & 2 in Microsoft Word?
>
>Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>(336) 988-6375
>pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey



From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 20:56:03 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:56:03 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
Message-ID: <35943B6B-56FF-4267-AC7F-45B1F8B50D59@gmail.com>



Hi guys,
Has anyone had problems reading PDFs with jaws where either the words are stuck together or only one word on each line? How do you fix this?Amanda

From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Fri Oct 18 21:10:03 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 21:10:03 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <35943B6B-56FF-4267-AC7F-45B1F8B50D59@gmail.com>
References: <35943B6B-56FF-4267-AC7F-45B1F8B50D59@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65c43569d0a64eecb94efd471b970173@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Amanda.
I've had problems getting Jaws to even read PDF's!
I'm running Jaws 10, on Windows Vista, and Internet Explorer 7!
I don't know what version of Adobe Reader I have, but if you want to read PDF's, you need the newest versions of Jaws and Adobe Flash Reader, as well as Internet Explorer 9!
I'm sick of Windows, and am ready for the Mac!
You shouldn't have this problem with Macs!
Good grief!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of cape.amanda at gmail.com [cape.amanda at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 3:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws

Hi guys,
Has anyone had problems reading PDFs with jaws where either the words are stuck together or only one word on each line? How do you fix this?Amanda
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Oct 18 21:12:34 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:12:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <35943B6B-56FF-4267-AC7F-45B1F8B50D59@gmail.com>
References: <35943B6B-56FF-4267-AC7F-45B1F8B50D59@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000128965019@mailfront3.g2host.com>

It isn't a problem with JAWS, it is caused by the program that 
created the PDF, and there is nothing you can do.

At 03:56 PM 10/18/2013, you wrote:


>Hi guys,
>Has anyone had problems reading PDFs with jaws where either the 
>words are stuck together or only one word on each line? How do you 
>fix this?Amanda



From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 21:36:57 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:36:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <auto-000128965019@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <35943B6B-56FF-4267-AC7F-45B1F8B50D59@gmail.com>
	<auto-000128965019@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <D956B83B-B34B-49D6-9A7B-0BDA4DC2FAC5@gmail.com>

Do they work better in open book?

Amanda

> On Oct 18, 2013, at 5:12 PM, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> 
> It isn't a problem with JAWS, it is caused by the program that created the PDF, and there is nothing you can do.
> 
> At 03:56 PM 10/18/2013, you wrote:
> 
> 
>> Hi guys,
>> Has anyone had problems reading PDFs with jaws where either the words are stuck together or only one word on each line? How do you fix this?Amanda
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 18 21:56:00 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:56:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <D956B83B-B34B-49D6-9A7B-0BDA4DC2FAC5@gmail.com>
References: <35943B6B-56FF-4267-AC7F-45B1F8B50D59@gmail.com><auto-000128965019@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<D956B83B-B34B-49D6-9A7B-0BDA4DC2FAC5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS143D46A0BAB206C581BFDAF5060@phx.gbl>

Hi Amanda, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I have many issues 
reading PDF with JAWS as well, specially when it comes to read stories for 
Literature class. You're right when you say that words are attached to each 
other, and I actually experienced a lot of these problems. I don't really 
like PDF. What I would prefer is to read in Microsoft Word document. 
Sometimes what I do is to copy whatever is on the PDF into Word in order to 
be able to read it. By the way, For what class do you need to use PDF? I'm 
just curious!! Thanks and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 5:36 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws

Do they work better in open book?

Amanda

> On Oct 18, 2013, at 5:12 PM, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>
> It isn't a problem with JAWS, it is caused by the program that created the 
> PDF, and there is nothing you can do.
>
> At 03:56 PM 10/18/2013, you wrote:
>
>
>> Hi guys,
>> Has anyone had problems reading PDFs with jaws where either the words are 
>> stuck together or only one word on each line? How do you fix this?Amanda
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 19 00:19:27 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:19:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Easy way to create PowerPoint slideshows
In-Reply-To: <F94C620EFCAE4CDB9FD61FE104233D37@osb.local>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<F94C620EFCAE4CDB9FD61FE104233D37@osb.local>
Message-ID: <9EA390A14BDB41B0BD02BAEA9C668886@OwnerPC>

Robert,
I think you may be missing a step. You cannot save a word file as a .docx 
file and open it up in powerpoint, since powerpoint only opens .ppt 
extensions.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Robert Miller
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 8:52 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Easy way to create PowerPoint slideshows

Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a
easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You
type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines.
Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading 2.
Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and close
the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will automatically
be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard part
is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide
transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can
send out the simple instructions.
Robert


--------------------------------------------------
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   3. iPhone (justin williams)
>   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>      (David Andrews)
>   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID:
> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files. 
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Cindy,
> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made
> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or 
> audios
> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with
> JAWS as far as I know.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cindy Bennett
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
> Jernigan
> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>
>>David:
>>
>>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>
>>Would you please pass around.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>country was on shutdown.
>>
>>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>
>>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>
>>
>>
>>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>
>>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>appropriate name rofl
>>Deanna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>National Federation of the Blind
>>631-236-5138
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
> found it very useful.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
> %40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
> ms2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Kaiti,
>
> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
> in her life.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>>
>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>
>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>
>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>> have to see what happens.
>>
>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>
>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>>> her
>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>> everyday.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense 
>>> that
>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>> knows
>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>>> the
>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>> body
>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>> impact
>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>>> a
>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>> failed
>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates 
>>> what
>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of 
>>> someone
>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and 
>>> knows
>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>> to
>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I 
>>> may
>>> be
>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of 
>>> this
>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>> across
>>> this situation in the future.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>
>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>> condition
>>>>
>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>> her.
>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>> what I wish other
>>>>
>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>> the distant future.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing
>>>>
>>>> compassionate
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs 
>>>>> associated
>>> with going blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> still being compassionate
> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Katie,
>
> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating 
> rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by 
> saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the 
> end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and 
> supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable 
> dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be 
> labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. 
> Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. 
> Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider 
> telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about 
> something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this 
> approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with 
> her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort 
> of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If 
> you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried 
> about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey 
> may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are 
> typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, 
> your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you 
> can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I 
> tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about 
> going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to 
> spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained 
> why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness 
> in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate 
> his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found 
> myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to 
> talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The 
> experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate 
> enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings 
> from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness 
> and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I 
> was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and 
> dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that 
> point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it 
> difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>
> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>
>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>
>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>
>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>
>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>
>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>
>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is 
>>> much
>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>
>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing 
>>> to
>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> (336) 988-6375
>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>
>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>
>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The 
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left 
>>>>>>> untreated,
>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going 
>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision 
>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind 
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled 
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person 
>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person 
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to 
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and 
>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while 
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in 
>>>>>>> chunks,
>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't 
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what 
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, 
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
> **************************************


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From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 19 00:34:54 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:34:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Easy way to create PowerPoint slideshows
In-Reply-To: <9EA390A14BDB41B0BD02BAEA9C668886@OwnerPC>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>	<F94C620EFCAE4CDB9FD61FE104233D37@osb.local>
	<9EA390A14BDB41B0BD02BAEA9C668886@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <007201cecc63$088f22f0$19ad68d0$@gmail.com>

Isn'tt there a way to transfer that?

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 8:19 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy way to create PowerPoint slideshows

Robert,
I think you may be missing a step. You cannot save a word file as a .docx 
file and open it up in powerpoint, since powerpoint only opens .ppt 
extensions.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Robert Miller
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 8:52 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Easy way to create PowerPoint slideshows

Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a
easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You
type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines.
Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading 2.
Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and close
the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will automatically
be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard part
is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide
transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can
send out the simple instructions.
Robert


--------------------------------------------------
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   3. iPhone (justin williams)
>   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>      (David Andrews)
>   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID:
> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.

>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Cindy,
> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made
> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or 
> audios
> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with
> JAWS as far as I know.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cindy Bennett
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom 
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
> Jernigan
> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>
>>David:
>>
>>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>
>>Would you please pass around.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>country was on shutdown.
>>
>>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>
>>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>
>>
>>
>>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>
>>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>appropriate name rofl
>>Deanna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>National Federation of the Blind
>>631-236-5138
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
> found it very useful.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
> %40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
> ms2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Kaiti,
>
> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
> in her life.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>>
>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>
>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>
>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>> have to see what happens.
>>
>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>
>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>>> her
>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>> everyday.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense 
>>> that
>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>> knows
>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>>> the
>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>> body
>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>> impact
>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I am
>>> a
>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>> failed
>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates 
>>> what
>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of 
>>> someone
>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and 
>>> knows
>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>> to
>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I 
>>> may
>>> be
>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of 
>>> this
>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>> across
>>> this situation in the future.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>
>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>> condition
>>>>
>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>> her.
>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>> what I wish other
>>>>
>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>> the distant future.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing
>>>>
>>>> compassionate
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs 
>>>>> associated
>>> with going blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai
l.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> still being compassionate
> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Katie,
>
> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating 
> rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by 
> saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the 
> end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and 
> supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable 
> dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be 
> labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes. 
> Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues. 
> Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider 
> telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about 
> something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this 
> approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with 
> her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort

> of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If 
> you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried 
> about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey 
> may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are

> typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile, 
> your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you 
> can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I 
> tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about 
> going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to

> spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained 
> why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness

> in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate 
> his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found 
> myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to

> talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The 
> experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate

> enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings

> from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness

> and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I

> was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and 
> dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that 
> point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it 
> difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>
> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>
>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>
>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>
>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>
>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>
>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>
>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is 
>>> much
>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>
>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing 
>>> to
>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> (336) 988-6375
>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>
>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>
>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The 
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes, 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left 
>>>>>>> untreated,
>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going 
>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision 
>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind 
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled 
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person 
>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person 
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have

>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to 
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and 
>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while 
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in 
>>>>>>> chunks,
>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't 
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what 
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything, 
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai
l.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile
.net
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
> **************************************


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From n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com  Sat Oct 19 06:02:00 2013
From: n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com (Shreyas N Reddy)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 11:32:00 +0530
Subject: [nabs-l] Easy way to create PowerPoint slideshows
In-Reply-To: <F94C620EFCAE4CDB9FD61FE104233D37@osb.local>
References: <mailman.21.1382097602.25299.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<F94C620EFCAE4CDB9FD61FE104233D37@osb.local>
Message-ID: <CALcH6o0+=W-rjgYO_FVdhVgGvGAyaiR2pMO1k0JyVabmOKAiKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi people!
I am unable to understand how to do the formatting, also understand
what is the meaning how to do this format the slide titles as heading
1 and all bullet lines as heading
>Please could u people help me?

On 10/18/13, Robert Miller <rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us> wrote:
> Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a
> easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word.  You
> type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines.
> Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading
> 2.
> Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy.  Then, save and
> close
> the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will
> automatically
> be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard
> part
> is done.  Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide
> transitions and sounds.  You can Google how to do this or if you want I can
> send out the simple instructions.
> Robert
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
>
>> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
>>   2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>>   3. iPhone (justin williams)
>>   4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
>>   5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
>>   6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>      (David Andrews)
>>   7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
>>   8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>      stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
>>   9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
>>      being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
>> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Thanks Misty!
>>
>> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
>> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
>> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
>> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
>> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
>> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
>> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
>> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
>> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
>> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
>> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
>> may be a way to get readers funded.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Juanita,
>>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in
>>> .zip
>>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom
>>> Scientific
>>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003
>>> and
>>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>>> Misty
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: justin williams
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>>
>>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>>> bucks.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>>> Herrera
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>>> high
>>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help.
>>> Is
>>> it
>>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how
>>> does
>>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>>> Juanita
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Hi Cindy,
>> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
>> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
>> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
>> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
>> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have
>> made
>> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or
>> audios
>> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button
>> with
>> JAWS as far as I know.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cindy Bennett
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Thanks Misty!
>>
>> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
>> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
>> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
>> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
>> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
>> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
>> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
>> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
>> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
>> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
>> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
>> may be a way to get readers funded.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Juanita,
>>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice
>>> files.
>>> I
>>>
>>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in
>>> .zip
>>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom
>>> Scientific
>>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003
>>> and
>>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>>> Misty
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: justin williams
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>>
>>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>>> bucks.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>>> Herrera
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>>> high
>>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help.
>>> Is
>>> it
>>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how
>>> does
>>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>>> Juanita
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Thank you; much appreciated.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
>> Bradley
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
>> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
>> Jernigan
>> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>
>> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>>
>>>David:
>>>
>>>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>>
>>>Would you please pass around.
>>>
>>>Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>>opened its National Parks while we  were there, even though the
>>>country was on shutdown.
>>>
>>>A few stories  and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>>monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>>
>>>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>>
>>>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>>appropriate name rofl
>>>Deanna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>>National Federation of the Blind
>>>631-236-5138
>>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>>><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
>> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
>> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
>> found it very useful.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Thank you; much appreciated.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Misty Dawn
>> Bradley
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Hi,
>> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
>> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> The website is:
>> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>>
>> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
>> %40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
>> ms2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> stillbeing compassionate
>> Message-ID:
>> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Hi Kaiti,
>>
>> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
>> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
>> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
>> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
>> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
>> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
>> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
>> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
>> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
>> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
>> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
>> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
>> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
>> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
>> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
>> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
>> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
>> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
>> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
>> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
>> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
>> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
>> in her life.
>>
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Justin,
>>>
>>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>>
>>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly).  I think this
>>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects.  I
>>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>>> that she hasn't lost much.  (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>>> not enough to even keep her from driving).  But, she sees this as a
>>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>>> be.  She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>>> other than saying it sucks.  Emphasis is still being placed on the
>>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>>
>>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied.  We'll
>>> have to see what happens.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>>
>>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> See if  you can get her to write positive affirmations which will
>>>> affirm
>>>> her
>>>> in having sight.  Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>>> everyday.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>>> Shelton
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>>> awkwardness too.  Like her family members, my friend said in a sense
>>>> that
>>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel.  I found this to be really
>>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>>> knows
>>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing
>>>> on
>>>> the
>>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>>> body
>>>> receiving the treatment.  It also showed me how different religions
>>>> impact
>>>> perceptions of disabilities.  I am Christian as well, but I do not
>>>> think
>>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that.  Perhaps I
>>>> am
>>>> a
>>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection.  She's deeply
>>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>>> Christianity.  So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>>> failed
>>>> to recognize that until yesterday.  I'm learning that this is far more
>>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates
>>>> what
>>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of
>>>> someone
>>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and
>>>> knows
>>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>>> to
>>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I
>>>> may
>>>> be
>>>> missing.  Any thoughts on that?  I want to be a little more aware of
>>>> this
>>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>>> across
>>>> this situation in the future.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>>
>>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>>> condition
>>>>>
>>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>>> her.
>>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>>> what I wish other
>>>>>
>>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>>> the distant future.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>>> stillbeing
>>>>>
>>>>> compassionate
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>>> blindness.  I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs
>>>>>> associated
>>>> with going blind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood.  I would imagine that
>>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college.  Yet, I
>>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>>> general.  I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a
>>>>>> bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying to
>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded
>>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not
>>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would you
>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
>> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>> still being compassionate
>> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Katie,
>>
>> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating
>> rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by
>> saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the
>> end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and
>> supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable
>>
>> dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be
>> labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes.
>> Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues.
>> Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider
>> telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about
>> something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this
>> approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with
>>
>> her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort
>>
>> of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If
>> you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried
>> about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey
>> may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are
>>
>> typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile,
>>
>> your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you
>> can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I
>> tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about
>> going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to
>>
>> spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained
>> why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness
>>
>> in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate
>> his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found
>> myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to
>>
>> talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The
>> experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate
>>
>> enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings
>>
>> from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness
>>
>> and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I
>>
>> was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and
>> dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that
>> point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it
>> difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>>
>> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>>
>>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>>> about it.  No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>>> out to me.  I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really.  I mean, I did
>>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>>> understand my circumstances.  I think that understanding that a risk
>>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications.  Once I
>>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>>
>>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something.  Having
>>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>>> blind.  Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>>> like mountains rather than molehills to them.  Things like cooking,
>>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>>
>>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>>> something to be mourned.  Obviously those with disabilities know they
>>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>>> pittied.  Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person.  Really, I just use
>>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>>> do.  I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>>> taken aback.  He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know.  I know
>>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>>> this list did.  So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>>> my blindness at all.  I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>>
>>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>>> function.  I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>>> awkward.  She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good.  I have a
>>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>>
>>> The good news is that this is treatable.  (She found out she does have
>>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>>> damage will occur.  And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>>> be there for her.  On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>>
>>> P.S:  Julie, I have heard of that documentary.  Rest assured I will
>>> not let her get ahold of it.  :)
>>>
>>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is
>>>> much
>>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>>
>>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>>
>>>> Best of luck
>>>>
>>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>>> (336) 988-6375
>>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is very interesting.  I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic.  I don't
>>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision.  I won't go into
>>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>>> them.  Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving.  Imagine losing your
>>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers.  On a smaller scale,
>>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>>> difficult for a long period of time.  Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>>> for navigation and getting information.  Losing that would be
>>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage.  Knowing
>>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>>> things.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy.  How would this change
>>>>> the grieving process?  How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>>
>>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>>> answer any questions she may have.  I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision.  After all, we've lived very
>>>>> productive lives without vision.  But I think that these two
>>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>>> offer them  support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a
>>>>>> cane
>>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The
>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and
>>>>>>> fears
>>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes,
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation.  A very close friend
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>>>>> untreated,
>>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness.  I'm
>>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's
>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going
>>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled
>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>> me since childhood.  I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person
>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>> they met me in college.  Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need
>>>>>>>> sight
>>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general.  I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and
>>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>>> done---just differently.  I feel like that is one of the best ways
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves.  I'm trying
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in
>>>>>>>> chunks,
>>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any
>>>>>>>> form
>>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do.  I've also reminded her
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight.  I do not know
>>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life.  If you are the latter and you
>>>>>>>> knew
>>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what
>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most?  What, if anything,
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you?  What would
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend?  Did contact with other blind
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> help you durring that time?  (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>>> everything else I do).  Any thoughts?
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>>> life."
>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
>> **************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/n.shreyas.reddy%40gmail.com
>


-- 
in regards
Shreyas Nagaraj Reddy


From dzhovani.chemishanov at gmail.com  Sat Oct 19 07:32:10 2013
From: dzhovani.chemishanov at gmail.com (Dzhovani)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:32:10 +0300
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
Message-ID: <5262357A.5070500@gmail.com>

Hi all,
   The problems between Jaws and .pdf-s are solvable. Acrobat reader has 
special settings for accessibility that seems hasn't been made when the 
program has been installed.
   How to solve that?
1. Open any .pdf document
2. Open the menus and press right arrow to reach the edit menu.
3. Press twice the up arrow to reach Accessibility subMenu.
4. Press down arrow to hear "Set up assistant".
5. Press enter and go through the screens and set up your preferred 
settings.
Note: If you set the program to read the entire document, have in mind 
that the large documents will made you wait, showing the message "Alert: 
document being processed".

Regards,
Dzhovani


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 19 12:46:12 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:46:12 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <5262357A.5070500@gmail.com>
References: <5262357A.5070500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003701ceccc9$31a5b800$94f12800$@gmail.com>

It does a pretty good job, and will read the documents more times than not.
It won't read everything even with accessibility, but you will get pretty
good use out of it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dzhovani
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 3:32 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws

Hi all,
   The problems between Jaws and .pdf-s are solvable. Acrobat reader has
special settings for accessibility that seems hasn't been made when the
program has been installed.
   How to solve that?
1. Open any .pdf document
2. Open the menus and press right arrow to reach the edit menu.
3. Press twice the up arrow to reach Accessibility subMenu.
4. Press down arrow to hear "Set up assistant".
5. Press enter and go through the screens and set up your preferred
settings.
Note: If you set the program to read the entire document, have in mind that
the large documents will made you wait, showing the message "Alert: 
document being processed".

Regards,
Dzhovani

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Oct 19 13:01:23 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:01:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <5262357A.5070500@gmail.com>
References: <5262357A.5070500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000129006767@mailfront3.g2host.com>

Part of what you say is true -- the steps you give should be taken to 
optomize the way that JAWS and Acrobat Reader work 
together.  However, there can be problems in the way in which a PDF 
was created, that your steps won't, and can't fix, the previously 
mentioned short lines, run together words etc.  They are caused by 
the program that actually created the PDF.

Dave

At 02:32 AM 10/19/2013, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>   The problems between Jaws and .pdf-s are solvable. Acrobat reader 
> has special settings for accessibility that seems hasn't been made 
> when the program has been installed.
>   How to solve that?
>1. Open any .pdf document
>2. Open the menus and press right arrow to reach the edit menu.
>3. Press twice the up arrow to reach Accessibility subMenu.
>4. Press down arrow to hear "Set up assistant".
>5. Press enter and go through the screens and set up your preferred settings.
>Note: If you set the program to read the entire document, have in 
>mind that the large documents will made you wait, showing the 
>message "Alert: document being processed".
>
>Regards,
>Dzhovani



From dburke at cocenter.org  Sat Oct 19 15:48:33 2013
From: dburke at cocenter.org (Dan Burke)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 15:48:33 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <auto-000129006767@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <5262357A.5070500@gmail.com>,
	<auto-000129006767@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <352FAD0A-07D0-46C5-A43A-28336AB37C76@cocenter.org>

1. checking accessibility settings is important, as described previously.

2. when that doesn't fix it, you can try going to the instructor for the source document, which hopefully is something like MS word, or
3.  Try open book, kurzweil or robo-Braille. Remember that these options involve OCR of the document, so it may solve the reading issue, but it is not reading the PDF text as you did in adobe.  It is doing OCR and producing  a new doc which may have some OCR errors.

Dan


Dan Burke - Sent from iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2013, at 7:02 AM, "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> 
> Part of what you say is true -- the steps you give should be taken to optomize the way that JAWS and Acrobat Reader work together.  However, there can be problems in the way in which a PDF was created, that your steps won't, and can't fix, the previously mentioned short lines, run together words etc.  They are caused by the program that actually created the PDF.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 02:32 AM 10/19/2013, you wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>  The problems between Jaws and .pdf-s are solvable. Acrobat reader has special settings for accessibility that seems hasn't been made when the program has been installed.
>>  How to solve that?
>> 1. Open any .pdf document
>> 2. Open the menus and press right arrow to reach the edit menu.
>> 3. Press twice the up arrow to reach Accessibility subMenu.
>> 4. Press down arrow to hear "Set up assistant".
>> 5. Press enter and go through the screens and set up your preferred settings.
>> Note: If you set the program to read the entire document, have in mind that the large documents will made you wait, showing the message "Alert: document being processed".
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dzhovani
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 19 16:05:08 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 12:05:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <352FAD0A-07D0-46C5-A43A-28336AB37C76@cocenter.org>
References: <5262357A.5070500@gmail.com>,
	<auto-000129006767@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<352FAD0A-07D0-46C5-A43A-28336AB37C76@cocenter.org>
Message-ID: <007401cecce4$fc428230$f4c78690$@gmail.com>

What is that robo braille internet address?

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Burke
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 11:49 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws

1. checking accessibility settings is important, as described previously.

2. when that doesn't fix it, you can try going to the instructor for the
source document, which hopefully is something like MS word, or 3.  Try open
book, kurzweil or robo-Braille. Remember that these options involve OCR of
the document, so it may solve the reading issue, but it is not reading the
PDF text as you did in adobe.  It is doing OCR and producing  a new doc
which may have some OCR errors.

Dan


Dan Burke - Sent from iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2013, at 7:02 AM, "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> 
> Part of what you say is true -- the steps you give should be taken to
optomize the way that JAWS and Acrobat Reader work together.  However, there
can be problems in the way in which a PDF was created, that your steps
won't, and can't fix, the previously mentioned short lines, run together
words etc.  They are caused by the program that actually created the PDF.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 02:32 AM 10/19/2013, you wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>  The problems between Jaws and .pdf-s are solvable. Acrobat reader has
special settings for accessibility that seems hasn't been made when the
program has been installed.
>>  How to solve that?
>> 1. Open any .pdf document
>> 2. Open the menus and press right arrow to reach the edit menu.
>> 3. Press twice the up arrow to reach Accessibility subMenu.
>> 4. Press down arrow to hear "Set up assistant".
>> 5. Press enter and go through the screens and set up your preferred
settings.
>> Note: If you set the program to read the entire document, have in mind
that the large documents will made you wait, showing the message "Alert:
document being processed".
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dzhovani
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.
> org

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.com



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Oct 19 18:59:07 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 14:59:07 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <007401cecce4$fc428230$f4c78690$@gmail.com>
References: <5262357A.5070500@gmail.com>
	<auto-000129006767@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<352FAD0A-07D0-46C5-A43A-28336AB37C76@cocenter.org>
	<007401cecce4$fc428230$f4c78690$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5285993521215810947@unknownmsgid>

RoboBraille.org.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2013, at 12:05 PM, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What is that robo braille internet address?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Burke
> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 11:49 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
>
> 1. checking accessibility settings is important, as described previously.
>
> 2. when that doesn't fix it, you can try going to the instructor for the
> source document, which hopefully is something like MS word, or 3.  Try open
> book, kurzweil or robo-Braille. Remember that these options involve OCR of
> the document, so it may solve the reading issue, but it is not reading the
> PDF text as you did in adobe.  It is doing OCR and producing  a new doc
> which may have some OCR errors.
>
> Dan
>
>
> Dan Burke - Sent from iPhone
>
>> On Oct 19, 2013, at 7:02 AM, "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>
>> Part of what you say is true -- the steps you give should be taken to
> optomize the way that JAWS and Acrobat Reader work together.  However, there
> can be problems in the way in which a PDF was created, that your steps
> won't, and can't fix, the previously mentioned short lines, run together
> words etc.  They are caused by the program that actually created the PDF.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 02:32 AM 10/19/2013, you wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> The problems between Jaws and .pdf-s are solvable. Acrobat reader has
> special settings for accessibility that seems hasn't been made when the
> program has been installed.
>>> How to solve that?
>>> 1. Open any .pdf document
>>> 2. Open the menus and press right arrow to reach the edit menu.
>>> 3. Press twice the up arrow to reach Accessibility subMenu.
>>> 4. Press down arrow to hear "Set up assistant".
>>> 5. Press enter and go through the screens and set up your preferred
> settings.
>>> Note: If you set the program to read the entire document, have in mind
> that the large documents will made you wait, showing the message "Alert:
> document being processed".
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dzhovani
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.
>> org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From astrochem119 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 20 16:17:21 2013
From: astrochem119 at gmail.com (Chelsea Cook)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 12:17:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13281.1382116046.3226.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.13281.1382116046.3226.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <03A68585-248B-473A-93D4-EED5938F0144@gmail.com>

Hi,

Don't know if this has been said already, but I now have a secret to reading PDF's efficiently: iBooks! As long as the PDF is in text, I've found iBooks to be the simplest and hassel-free way to read PDF documents. Just save the file to Dropbox and it will ask you to export on your phone. Choose iBooks, and happy reading! You can also move your finger through the document line by line, though I find this technique to be a bit unreliable at times, depending on how finely you can control the speed of your finger; and I find it works much better for me on an iPad.

Here's hoping iBooks for Mac will have just as excellent PDF support!

Chelsea 

From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Sun Oct 20 17:10:42 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 17:10:42 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <03A68585-248B-473A-93D4-EED5938F0144@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.13281.1382116046.3226.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>,
	<03A68585-248B-473A-93D4-EED5938F0144@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <130337b08957484d868d3bd201fc451e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

What about us Windows users?
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Chelsea Cook [astrochem119 at gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:17 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS

Hi,

Don't know if this has been said already, but I now have a secret to reading PDF's efficiently: iBooks! As long as the PDF is in text, I've found iBooks to be the simplest and hassel-free way to read PDF documents. Just save the file to Dropbox and it will ask you to export on your phone. Choose iBooks, and happy reading! You can also move your finger through the document line by line, though I find this technique to be a bit unreliable at times, depending on how finely you can control the speed of your finger; and I find it works much better for me on an iPad.

Here's hoping iBooks for Mac will have just as excellent PDF support!

Chelsea
_______________________________________________
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From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Sun Oct 20 21:33:05 2013
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 16:33:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <130337b08957484d868d3bd201fc451e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000015231267@mailback4.g2host.com>

Joshua,

Mostly, Adobe Acrobat Reader works pretty well.  PDF documents it doesn't read, particularly scanned documents, won't be read by the ibook software, 
either.  Are you having a particular problem?

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 17:10:42 +0000, Joshua Lester wrote:

>What about us Windows users?
>Thanks, Joshua
>________________________________________
>From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Chelsea Cook [astrochem119 at gmail.com]
>Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:17 AM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS

>Hi,

>Don't know if this has been said already, but I now have a secret to reading PDF's efficiently: iBooks! As long as the PDF is in text, I've found iBooks to 
be the simplest and hassel-free way to read PDF documents. Just save the file to Dropbox and it will ask you to export on your phone. Choose iBooks, 
and happy reading! You can also move your finger through the document line by line, though I find this technique to be a bit unreliable at times, depending 
on how finely you can control the speed of your finger; and I find it works much better for me on an iPad.

>Here's hoping iBooks for Mac will have just as excellent PDF support!

>Chelsea
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Sun Oct 20 21:39:20 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 21:39:20 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <auto-000015231267@mailback4.g2host.com>
References: <130337b08957484d868d3bd201fc451e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<auto-000015231267@mailback4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <0879a91a06f74c6da2842883a4fef044@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I'm trying to convert some PDF's to Word Doccuments, for a class, and it's not working out for me!
I'm tired of these PDF's!
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Steve Jacobson [steve.jacobson at visi.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 4:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS

Joshua,

Mostly, Adobe Acrobat Reader works pretty well.  PDF documents it doesn't read, particularly scanned documents, won't be read by the ibook software,
either.  Are you having a particular problem?

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 17:10:42 +0000, Joshua Lester wrote:

>What about us Windows users?
>Thanks, Joshua
>________________________________________
>From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Chelsea Cook [astrochem119 at gmail.com]
>Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:17 AM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS

>Hi,

>Don't know if this has been said already, but I now have a secret to reading PDF's efficiently: iBooks! As long as the PDF is in text, I've found iBooks to
be the simplest and hassel-free way to read PDF documents. Just save the file to Dropbox and it will ask you to export on your phone. Choose iBooks,
and happy reading! You can also move your finger through the document line by line, though I find this technique to be a bit unreliable at times, depending
on how finely you can control the speed of your finger; and I find it works much better for me on an iPad.

>Here's hoping iBooks for Mac will have just as excellent PDF support!

>Chelsea
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com





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From iperrault at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 20 23:03:51 2013
From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 19:03:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <0879a91a06f74c6da2842883a4fef044@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <130337b08957484d868d3bd201fc451e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<auto-000015231267@mailback4.g2host.com>
	<0879a91a06f74c6da2842883a4fef044@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BLU175-DS112EADB412660E963F0031BF000@phx.gbl>


            Hi,
Have you heard of robo braille? It's free, and it's great! You can convert 
PDF's, even PDF's that say empty document, to Microsoft Word! Go to 
www.robobraille.org, click browse, upload the file, click how you want it, 
enter your e-mail address, then click submit! Hopefully this helps.
Ian 



From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 20 23:39:18 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 19:39:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <auto-000015231267@mailback4.g2host.com>
References: <130337b08957484d868d3bd201fc451e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<auto-000015231267@mailback4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <003801cecded$98bc65f0$ca3531d0$@gmail.com>

You can send them to some sort of web site can't you?  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 5:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS

Joshua,

Mostly, Adobe Acrobat Reader works pretty well.  PDF documents it doesn't
read, particularly scanned documents, won't be read by the ibook software,
either.  Are you having a particular problem?

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 17:10:42 +0000, Joshua Lester wrote:

>What about us Windows users?
>Thanks, Joshua
>________________________________________
>From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Chelsea Cook 
>[astrochem119 at gmail.com]
>Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:17 AM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS

>Hi,

>Don't know if this has been said already, but I now have a secret to 
>reading PDF's efficiently: iBooks! As long as the PDF is in text, I've 
>found iBooks to
be the simplest and hassel-free way to read PDF documents. Just save the
file to Dropbox and it will ask you to export on your phone. Choose iBooks,
and happy reading! You can also move your finger through the document line
by line, though I find this technique to be a bit unreliable at times,
depending on how finely you can control the speed of your finger; and I find
it works much better for me on an iPad.

>Here's hoping iBooks for Mac will have just as excellent PDF support!

>Chelsea
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua
>.edu

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40vi
>si.com





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.com



From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 20 23:44:58 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 19:44:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <BLU175-DS112EADB412660E963F0031BF000@phx.gbl>
References: <130337b08957484d868d3bd201fc451e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<auto-000015231267@mailback4.g2host.com><0879a91a06f74c6da2842883a4fef044@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<BLU175-DS112EADB412660E963F0031BF000@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS51704EDF4067EEA11546EF5000@phx.gbl>

Hi Ian, this is Helga. Can I convert an entire PDF book as a word document 
with robobraille? I'm just curious, since I'm reading my Literature book as 
a pdf book, an I don't like PDF at all.. Or Do you think that doesn't work 
at all, and that will only work with specific pages of the PDF book? Could 
that be possible to obtain? Just wondering! Thanks so much and God bless!! 
:)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ian Perrault
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 7:03 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS


            Hi,
Have you heard of robo braille? It's free, and it's great! You can convert
PDF's, even PDF's that say empty document, to Microsoft Word! Go to
www.robobraille.org, click browse, upload the file, click how you want it,
enter your e-mail address, then click submit! Hopefully this helps.
Ian


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From iperrault at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 21 00:16:54 2013
From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:16:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS51704EDF4067EEA11546EF5000@phx.gbl>
References: <130337b08957484d868d3bd201fc451e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<auto-000015231267@mailback4.g2host.com><0879a91a06f74c6da2842883a4fef044@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com><BLU175-DS112EADB412660E963F0031BF000@phx.gbl>
	<BLU172-DS51704EDF4067EEA11546EF5000@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU175-DS187C234F2BE053A3BAFD4FBF010@phx.gbl>


        Hey,
I'm not sure. Try it! I convert PDF files all the time, and one of the 
options is book, so I bet that it will work! 



From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 21 03:26:43 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 23:26:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <BLU175-DS187C234F2BE053A3BAFD4FBF010@phx.gbl>
References: <130337b08957484d868d3bd201fc451e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<auto-000015231267@mailback4.g2host.com><0879a91a06f74c6da2842883a4fef044@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com><BLU175-DS112EADB412660E963F0031BF000@phx.gbl><BLU172-DS51704EDF4067EEA11546EF5000@phx.gbl>
	<BLU175-DS187C234F2BE053A3BAFD4FBF010@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS17F6668B1EF5ACAC2F2553F5010@phx.gbl>

Hi Ian, this is Helga again. I just wanted to tell you that my Literature 
book is on PDF format, but it comes in a CD.I just wanted to ask you, do you 
know how can I move my book, which is located inside my CD as an attached 
file to Robobraille, so that roboraille could convert the PDF into Word? 
Just wondering. I'm not really so sure how to do it. Thanks and God bless.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ian Perrault
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 8:16 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS


        Hey,
I'm not sure. Try it! I convert PDF files all the time, and one of the
options is book, so I bet that it will work!


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 03:48:09 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 21:48:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS17F6668B1EF5ACAC2F2553F5010@phx.gbl>
References: <130337b08957484d868d3bd201fc451e@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<auto-000015231267@mailback4.g2host.com>
	<0879a91a06f74c6da2842883a4fef044@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<BLU175-DS112EADB412660E963F0031BF000@phx.gbl>
	<BLU172-DS51704EDF4067EEA11546EF5000@phx.gbl>
	<BLU175-DS187C234F2BE053A3BAFD4FBF010@phx.gbl>
	<BLU172-DS17F6668B1EF5ACAC2F2553F5010@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBhB_JKz=KzbGA7vGYwq9e+qvGnf6YTKaVYi=44=D=D1g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Helga,

If the CD is in your computer's CD drive, you should be able to attach
the PDF from your CD to the email you send RoboBraille. Just send an
email to
convert at robobraille.org
with "doc" in the subject line (without the quotes) and then do
whatever you normally do to attach files to emails you send. When it
asks for the file name, go to browse, and then find the CD drive in
your list of folders (probably just below the "local disk"). Good
luck!
Arielle

On 10/20/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ian, this is Helga again. I just wanted to tell you that my Literature
> book is on PDF format, but it comes in a CD.I just wanted to ask you, do you
>
> know how can I move my book, which is located inside my CD as an attached
> file to Robobraille, so that roboraille could convert the PDF into Word?
> Just wondering. I'm not really so sure how to do it. Thanks and God bless.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Perrault
> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 8:16 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF's with JAWS
>
>
>         Hey,
> I'm not sure. Try it! I convert PDF files all the time, and one of the
> options is book, so I bet that it will work!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 03:57:54 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 21:57:54 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <5285993521215810947@unknownmsgid>
References: <5262357A.5070500@gmail.com>
	<auto-000129006767@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<352FAD0A-07D0-46C5-A43A-28336AB37C76@cocenter.org>
	<007401cecce4$fc428230$f4c78690$@gmail.com>
	<5285993521215810947@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAvBaigaErNA-s1hNwxmmyk7tirfSgXQ4QG=3a7fHnGuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Amanda and all,
I know exactly what you are talking about, and hate PDF's in Adobe
Reader not only for that reason, but also because it's harder to
search for specific words or navigate quickly through the document.
I use Gmail, so whenever I have a PDF I email it to myself as an
attachment. Then I open up the email I sent myself and just below the
attachment name, click the "view as HTML" link. You will see the text
of your PDF document in what looks like a webpage but with no links on
it. Since it's in HTML, JAWS treats it like a web page and many JAWS
shortcuts such as searching with Control-F work quite well.
For almost all PDF's I've tried that are not scanned documents, I find
the HTML view is very easy to navigate and search through, and most of
the problems with words running together or one word per line are
instantly fixed. I use the "view as HTML" to read almost all research
articles, including ones I originally get as Word docs, because it is
so easy to use the JAWS find command (control-F) to find specific
words etc.
If you use Gmail I would highly recommend that solution. If the PDF is
scanned, though, HTML view won't work. You'll need to send it to
convert at robobraille.org
with the word "doc" (without the quotes) in the subject and then view
the word doc you get back in HTML.
If you don't use Gmail, you could also just copy and paste the text
from the PDF into a word doc or the body of an email message you send
yourself, and sometimes that fixes the reading problems. Again, this
won't work for scanned PDF's.

Best,
Arielle

On 10/19/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> RoboBraille.org.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 19, 2013, at 12:05 PM, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> What is that robo braille internet address?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Burke
>> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 11:49 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
>>
>> 1. checking accessibility settings is important, as described previously.
>>
>> 2. when that doesn't fix it, you can try going to the instructor for the
>> source document, which hopefully is something like MS word, or 3.  Try
>> open
>> book, kurzweil or robo-Braille. Remember that these options involve OCR
>> of
>> the document, so it may solve the reading issue, but it is not reading
>> the
>> PDF text as you did in adobe.  It is doing OCR and producing  a new doc
>> which may have some OCR errors.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> Dan Burke - Sent from iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 19, 2013, at 7:02 AM, "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Part of what you say is true -- the steps you give should be taken to
>> optomize the way that JAWS and Acrobat Reader work together.  However,
>> there
>> can be problems in the way in which a PDF was created, that your steps
>> won't, and can't fix, the previously mentioned short lines, run together
>> words etc.  They are caused by the program that actually created the PDF.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 02:32 AM 10/19/2013, you wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> The problems between Jaws and .pdf-s are solvable. Acrobat reader has
>> special settings for accessibility that seems hasn't been made when the
>> program has been installed.
>>>> How to solve that?
>>>> 1. Open any .pdf document
>>>> 2. Open the menus and press right arrow to reach the edit menu.
>>>> 3. Press twice the up arrow to reach Accessibility subMenu.
>>>> 4. Press down arrow to hear "Set up assistant".
>>>> 5. Press enter and go through the screens and set up your preferred
>> settings.
>>>> Note: If you set the program to read the entire document, have in mind
>> that the large documents will made you wait, showing the message "Alert:
>> document being processed".
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dzhovani
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.
>>> org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From freethaught at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 16:11:55 2013
From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 12:11:55 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Apps for Android Phones
In-Reply-To: <524F3851.5020102@gtwebdesign.us>
References: <CA+3U9s6wpSZHVL6Ufkgk1NNBqweMf_8GW4RTX3TUH2-gCKLBZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<524F3851.5020102@gtwebdesign.us>
Message-ID: <67F42F3B-AADB-4F13-85FF-276683684775@gmail.com>

I see a few entries on the old accessible Droid site by an Access Ana. 

I would like to speak to her directly about droid accessibility and would appreciate it if someone would put me in touch with her.

Thanks,

Antonio

On Oct 4, 2013, at 5:51 PM, Greg Wocher <icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us> wrote:

> Hello,
> Check out this website:
> http://accessibleandroid.wordpress.com/
> It has a bunch of apps listed.
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> Follow me on Twitter @GWocher
> 
> On 10/4/2013 4:49 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>> Hey All!
>> 
>> Hope you are doing well!  I was wondering if any of the Android users
>> could provide their useful Android apps.  I recently upgraded to an
>> android phone, but wanted to know if any had any good apps for the
>> Blind/Visually Impaired.  I'm curious if there is any out there that
>> deal with scanning documents so one could read documents with their
>> phone?
>> 
>> Thanks as always for your help!
>> 
>> Justin
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%40gtwebdesign.us
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com



From dburke at cocenter.org  Mon Oct 21 17:45:36 2013
From: dburke at cocenter.org (Dan Burke)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 17:45:36 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAvBaigaErNA-s1hNwxmmyk7tirfSgXQ4QG=3a7fHnGuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5262357A.5070500@gmail.com>
	<auto-000129006767@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<352FAD0A-07D0-46C5-A43A-28336AB37C76@cocenter.org>
	<007401cecce4$fc428230$f4c78690$@gmail.com>
	<5285993521215810947@unknownmsgid>,
	<CALAYQJAvBaigaErNA-s1hNwxmmyk7tirfSgXQ4QG=3a7fHnGuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11B6DCD4-9C46-436E-85E6-6C925DA7218C@cocenter.org>

Ariel's strategy is an excellent one. Gmail's html versions of PDFs are very usable.

The problem with split words is I think a matter of columns, especially.

One ther strategy is to save the PDF as plain text. You lose page info, headings, etc, but you get the text in a cleaner form.

Another strategy is to buy Adobe Acrobat at the student rate, about disblegj.  I don't know how accessible it is, but it can take the PDF and convert it with the original text to something else, such as Word or Rich text or html or even epub.  
Dan

Dan Burke - Sent from iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2013, at 9:58 PM, "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Amanda and all,
> I know exactly what you are talking about, and hate PDF's in Adobe
> Reader not only for that reason, but also because it's harder to
> search for specific words or navigate quickly through the document.
> I use Gmail, so whenever I have a PDF I email it to myself as an
> attachment. Then I open up the email I sent myself and just below the
> attachment name, click the "view as HTML" link. You will see the text
> of your PDF document in what looks like a webpage but with no links on
> it. Since it's in HTML, JAWS treats it like a web page and many JAWS
> shortcuts such as searching with Control-F work quite well.
> For almost all PDF's I've tried that are not scanned documents, I find
> the HTML view is very easy to navigate and search through, and most of
> the problems with words running together or one word per line are
> instantly fixed. I use the "view as HTML" to read almost all research
> articles, including ones I originally get as Word docs, because it is
> so easy to use the JAWS find command (control-F) to find specific
> words etc.
> If you use Gmail I would highly recommend that solution. If the PDF is
> scanned, though, HTML view won't work. You'll need to send it to
> convert at robobraille.org
> with the word "doc" (without the quotes) in the subject and then view
> the word doc you get back in HTML.
> If you don't use Gmail, you could also just copy and paste the text
> from the PDF into a word doc or the body of an email message you send
> yourself, and sometimes that fixes the reading problems. Again, this
> won't work for scanned PDF's.
> 
> Best,
> Arielle
> 
>> On 10/19/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> RoboBraille.org.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2013, at 12:05 PM, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What is that robo braille internet address?
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Burke
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 11:49 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading PDF documents with jaws
>>> 
>>> 1. checking accessibility settings is important, as described previously.
>>> 
>>> 2. when that doesn't fix it, you can try going to the instructor for the
>>> source document, which hopefully is something like MS word, or 3.  Try
>>> open
>>> book, kurzweil or robo-Braille. Remember that these options involve OCR
>>> of
>>> the document, so it may solve the reading issue, but it is not reading
>>> the
>>> PDF text as you did in adobe.  It is doing OCR and producing  a new doc
>>> which may have some OCR errors.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Burke - Sent from iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 19, 2013, at 7:02 AM, "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Part of what you say is true -- the steps you give should be taken to
>>> optomize the way that JAWS and Acrobat Reader work together.  However,
>>> there
>>> can be problems in the way in which a PDF was created, that your steps
>>> won't, and can't fix, the previously mentioned short lines, run together
>>> words etc.  They are caused by the program that actually created the PDF.
>>>> 
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> At 02:32 AM 10/19/2013, you wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> The problems between Jaws and .pdf-s are solvable. Acrobat reader has
>>> special settings for accessibility that seems hasn't been made when the
>>> program has been installed.
>>>>> How to solve that?
>>>>> 1. Open any .pdf document
>>>>> 2. Open the menus and press right arrow to reach the edit menu.
>>>>> 3. Press twice the up arrow to reach Accessibility subMenu.
>>>>> 4. Press down arrow to hear "Set up assistant".
>>>>> 5. Press enter and go through the screens and set up your preferred
>>> settings.
>>>>> Note: If you set the program to read the entire document, have in mind
>>> that the large documents will made you wait, showing the message "Alert:
>>> document being processed".
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dzhovani
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.
>>>> org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 22 03:18:00 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 21:18:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Please help me with online research study
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBt+ff1V9+wJCYOn1F3EEC8Z8nBpSwEqZicd-gwQJ2+xQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
My name is Arielle Silverman and I am a doctoral student in the
Department of Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of
Colorado. As you may know, I am conducting a series of studies for my
dissertation examining blind people’s experiences finding employment
as well as your experiences in interacting with the blind and sighted
communities. I would once  again appreciate your help with a brief
online study. For this study, you will be asked to write a brief essay
and then, depending on which version you are randomly assigned to, to
either complete some math problems, verbal problems or a short survey.
The entire study should take no more than 30 minutes to complete.
Again, in appreciation of your time, you will have the opportunity to
enter a raffle drawing to win a $50 gift certificate to a merchant of
your choice (Amazon.com, Itunes.com, Olive Garden, or AMC Theaters).
All of your responses in the study will be anonymous and confidential.
Anyone who is legally blind and at least 18 years old is welcome to
participate. However, some of the materials in this study are
materials I have used in previous studies. The results are most
reliable with participants who have not seen the materials before.
Therefore, if you have participated in any of my studies that involved
math or verbal problems in the past, I kindly ask that you refrain
from participating in this one. If you have just participated in my
studies about employment, however, you are welcome to participate in
this study. I appreciate your cooperation.
To begin please go to:
http://ucsas.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_73NGov2j8E4SNOR
Thank you as always for your assistance. As many of you have asked
about results from this research, I intend to send out a summary of
results from all these studies once the project is completed, most
likely at some point in the spring.
Best,
Arielle Silverman, M.A.
Doctoral Candidate, Social Psychology
Department of Psychology and Neuroscience
345 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0345
arielle.silverman at colorado.edu


From ALewis at nfb.org  Tue Oct 22 19:09:10 2013
From: ALewis at nfb.org (Lewis, Anil)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 19:09:10 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Invitation to join a call with Vice President Joe Biden
 and Deputy Senior Advisor David Simas
In-Reply-To: <0C089B2358765B47B389F1970AE10CE91A7E07@smeopm01>
References: <0C089B2358765B47B389F1970AE10CE91A7E07@smeopm01>
Message-ID: <b0e09488bd3e40b4afc6beb79d55b20b@BN1PR07MB437.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

All:

I offer the following in an effort to allow our members that are interested in the following public policy issues to actively participate.
[cid:image001.png at 01CECF1B.57F53F40]



The White House Office of Public Engagement invites you to join a call with Vice President Joe Biden and Deputy Senior Advisor David Simas, Today, October 22 at 4:45pm EDT to discuss the Affordable Care Act and upcoming legislative priorities for the administration, such as economic growth, Comprehensive Immigration Reform and the Farm Bill.

To RSVP, please click here<http://ems6.intellor.com/?p=600149&do=register&t=1>.  Call-in information will be provided when you RSVP.  Please feel free to share with your networks and affiliates.  This call will be off the record and not for press purposes.

We look forward to speaking with you and working with you on these important issues.

As always, thank you for your leadership.

Sincerely,

Claudia L. Gordon
White House Office of Public Engagement
Claudia_L_Gordon at who.eop.gov<mailto:Claudia_L_Gordon at who.eop.gov>
(202) 456-3450 Voice | (202) 888-0253 Video Phone
[cid:image001.png at 01CEAEE8.9F499B50]<http://www.healthcare.gov/>
Sign up<http://www.whitehouse.gov/engage/white-house-social-media-alerts> for White House social media alerts
Connect<http://www.whitehouse.gov/engage> with the Office of Public Engagement



Sincerely,

Anil



Mr. Anil Lewis, M.P.A.

"Eliminating Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities"
http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
Work: 410-659-9314 ext. 2374
Twitter: @anillife

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From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 24 17:04:19 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:04:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] VR in Illinois
Message-ID: <C619A85B-A287-4332-88F2-667E92D089FF@yahoo.com>

Hello, I am considering moving to Illinois for graduate school. 

Does any one know what kind of services vocational rehabilitation offers there? (O&M, independent living, tuition & book assistance, etc)

I want to know the consumers opinion before I contact them and see what they say. 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Oct 25 00:54:04 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 19:54:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Royal National Institute of Blind People Consulted by
 Amazon in Kindle HDX Development
Message-ID: <auto-000129216050@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>
>Royal National Institute of Blind People Consulted by Amazon in 
>Kindle HDX Development
>
>
>
>By <http://goodereader.com/blog/author/michael-kozlowski>Michael Kozlowski
>
>Amazon does not have the most glorious track record when it comes to 
>making their devices accessible to people with vision problems. The 
>company used to include a headphone jack in their prior Kindle 
>models and decided to discontinue it due to competitive nature of 
>the North American market. This has resulted in rampant protests by 
>the 
><http://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/national-federation-of-the-blind-marches-on-amazon-headquarters>National 
>Federation of the Blind. Amazon at least is starting to take the 
>issue of greater accessibility seriously by consulting with the 
>Royal National Institute of Blind People in the development of the 
>new line of HDX tablets.
>
>The new accessible devices mean that blind and partially sighted 
>people will be able read the full range of Kindle books, newspapers 
>and journals in a variety of ways. The built-in screen reader allows 
>readers to listen to titles whilst the magnification function 
>enlarges the screen view. The device can also be used with an 
>electronic braille display and the audio book player also supports 
>accessibility.
>
>The device offers access to TV and film content from Love Film 
>through the device's improved media player, meaning that a blind 
>user can enjoy the tablet's full range of features independently.
>
>RNIB firmly believes that blind and partially sighted people should 
>have access to the same choice of books as sighted people and its 
>work encompasses both the digital and traditional worlds of 
>publishing. Although not everyone will benefit from these new 
>devices, increasing numbers of blind and partially sighted people 
>are using new technology and by working collaboratively with the 
>publishing and technology industry, the charity wants to make sure 
>accessibility is at the fore of all new developments.
>
>Blind reader Gary said "I feel like I have been set free in a sweet 
>shop! The whole of the Kindle catalogue is now available to me on a 
>Kindle device not only in synthetic speech but in braille using my 
>electronic braille display as well".
>Some of the new features in the HDX line of tablets include Voice 
>Guide technology will allow menu navigation to be read aloud to the 
>user and Voice Guide Navigation will tell users what they click on. 
>For example, if you are clicking on an ebook, it will tell you what 
>book it is and then read the book to you when you open it.
>
>
>
> 
><http://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/royal-national-institute-of-blind-people-consulted-by-amazon-in-kindle-hdx-development>http://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/royal-national-institute-of-blind-people-consulted-by-amazon-in-kindle-hdx-development
>
>
>
>Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
>Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>
>Cheryl Echevarria, Owner
><http://www.echevarriatravel.com>www.echevarriatravel.com
>631-456-5394
><mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>
>Your old car keys can be the keys to literacy for a blind 
>child.  Donate your unwanted vehicle to us by clicking 
><http://www.nfb.org/vehicledonations>www.nfb.org/vehicledonations or 
>call 855-659-9314.
>
>Echevarria Travel has partnered with Braille Smith. 
><http://www.braillesmith.com>www.braillesmith.com for all her 
>braille needs.  Gail Smith is the Secretary of the NFB of Alabama

From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 25 06:14:30 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 00:14:30 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] project help.
Message-ID: <D8AEB2D614B841EB9809851E5783ECA6@HP30910210001>

Hi all.
I am in my final semester.
Yay Me.

I have two projects that I am asking for help.
I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions about children's books that 
are extremely biased.
I need to create a project on both anti-bised and biased children's books.
This way I can do a contrast of them.
this is for my childhood curriculum class.
For the same class I am putting together a teaching unit on in the kitchen.
any suggestions or activities or children's books would be appreciated.
These two projects must be tailored for children 2 to 6.
Finally, any suggestions of articles on children's books are also good as 
well.
Thank you all for your help and suggestions.
 Any help wil be apreciated.

Thank you.
Best,
Melissa Green  and Pj
"There's a God that loves you, you matter, & you have value & purpose." 

From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Sat Oct 26 05:06:35 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 05:06:35 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] E-Mail problems!
Message-ID: <c319e40969d542709d5a0ff44b4b7b16@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi!
My student E-Mail was down, so I attempted to create a new E-Mail address.
I tried to use Hotmail, but it wouldn't work with my screenreader, when I tried to read replies!
Thank God my student E-Mail is back up!
I tried to get Yahoo, but they won't allow me to even access the E-Mail site, due to that stupid Application Mode!
How can I avoid the Application mode on Yahoo?
GMail wouldn't let me complete the form, because the month of my birthday isn't where I can select the month.
I hit enter on the button, and it won't take me anywhere!
GMail should have everything set up as a combobox!
The gender button didn't work either!
Why must E-Mail be such a pain?
Thanks, Joshua

From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 26 06:49:17 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 02:49:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] E-Mail problems!
In-Reply-To: <c319e40969d542709d5a0ff44b4b7b16@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <c319e40969d542709d5a0ff44b4b7b16@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS241406B75C2B408D90AED26F50E0@phx.gbl>

Hi Joshua! What's up! :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2013, at 1:07 AM, "Joshua Lester" <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> My student E-Mail was down, so I attempted to create a new E-Mail address.
> I tried to use Hotmail, but it wouldn't work with my screenreader, when I tried to read replies!
> Thank God my student E-Mail is back up!
> I tried to get Yahoo, but they won't allow me to even access the E-Mail site, due to that stupid Application Mode!
> How can I avoid the Application mode on Yahoo?
> GMail wouldn't let me complete the form, because the month of my birthday isn't where I can select the month.
> I hit enter on the button, and it won't take me anywhere!
> GMail should have everything set up as a combobox!
> The gender button didn't work either!
> Why must E-Mail be such a pain?
> Thanks, Joshua
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Sat Oct 26 07:20:05 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 07:20:05 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] E-Mail problems!
In-Reply-To: <BLU404-EAS241406B75C2B408D90AED26F50E0@phx.gbl>
References: <c319e40969d542709d5a0ff44b4b7b16@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<BLU404-EAS241406B75C2B408D90AED26F50E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <f4c66858713a4ba897912c0ff470e288@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Nothing.
I have a family reunion to go to later today.
Back to the topic at hand, I'm thinking about having the college fax my student ID to Best Buy, in Little Rock, so that they can deliver my Mac to the college, and I'll pay them there, so I'll be able to still get my student discount, without having to go to Little Rock!
Maybe with the Mac, I'll be able to better access my new E-Mail address!
The Hotmail one is the one I prefer!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Helga Schreiber [helga.schreiber at hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 1:49 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] E-Mail problems!

Hi Joshua! What's up! :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2013, at 1:07 AM, "Joshua Lester" <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi!
> My student E-Mail was down, so I attempted to create a new E-Mail address.
> I tried to use Hotmail, but it wouldn't work with my screenreader, when I tried to read replies!
> Thank God my student E-Mail is back up!
> I tried to get Yahoo, but they won't allow me to even access the E-Mail site, due to that stupid Application Mode!
> How can I avoid the Application mode on Yahoo?
> GMail wouldn't let me complete the form, because the month of my birthday isn't where I can select the month.
> I hit enter on the button, and it won't take me anywhere!
> GMail should have everything set up as a combobox!
> The gender button didn't work either!
> Why must E-Mail be such a pain?
> Thanks, Joshua
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Oct 28 17:00:17 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 12:00:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Career Query
Message-ID: <auto-000130046130@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>
>
>Dear Dave,
>
>Please post this to the NFB listservs.  Thanks so much!
>
>__________
>
>A teacher of the visually impaired in Illinois has a blind high 
>school student who hopes to become a court reporter.  She is seeking 
>a blind person who has worked or is currently working in this 
>career.  If you are a court reporter, or if you know a blind person 
>who works in this field, please contact this TVI at 
>jannamarystein at gmail.com.  Thanks for any help you can provide!
>
>Debbie Stein
>
>



From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 00:58:05 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 17:58:05 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
Message-ID: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>

I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around one
computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to look
at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see theirs.

What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is not a
situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
talking about.

Thank you

Suzanne

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 02:03:29 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 22:03:29 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>

In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group to be
a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most easily
done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based on my
experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
members can get off task, holding back the other members of the group.
If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, you
are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
necessary.

Hope this helps,

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>
> I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
> more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around one
> computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to look
> at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see theirs.
>
> What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is not a
> situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
> zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
> depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
> talking about.
>
> Thank you
>
> Suzanne
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From zdreicer at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 02:07:23 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 20:07:23 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd:  BrailleNote Users Chat for November 2, 2013
References: <002301ced40b$a19fb450$e4df1cf0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37D26977-A884-4AD4-AC90-8B14169EDF61@gmail.com>



Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590 at gmail.com>
> Date: October 28, 2013 at 12:29:25 PM MDT
> To: <braillenote at freelists.org>
> Subject: [BNU] Invitation: BrailleNote Users Chat for November 2, 2013
> Reply-To: joseph.lee22590 at gmail.com
> 
> Hi,
> Below is the official invitation letter for the upcoming BNU chat. Please spread the word:
>  
> Dear BrailleNote Users, Humanware staff and others:
> We at BrailleNote Users would like to invite you to our next BrailleNote Users Chat to be held on November 2, 2013. This is a good time to get to know other BN users, and if possible, get to know HW staff and to give them feedback.
>  
> To accommodate international participants and those who may not use a computer, we’ll use three chat mediums to talk: phone sessions, Skype and on BrailleNote’s KeyChat.
>  
> Here are the details:
> ·        Date: November 2, 2013.
> ·        Sessions:
> ·        Session 1: Phone session at 10 AM Pacific, 1 PM Eastern, 17:00 UTC.
> ·        Session 2 via Skype: 4 PM Pacific, 7 PM Eastern, 23:00 UTC.
> For phone: before start of chat, call 712-432-6499 (international fees may apply). From Conversation Station’s main menu, select live chatroom, then enter 284# (# is pound or hash key).
> For Skype: Before start of chat (or during the chat), call the Skype ID of “braillenote” (without quotes) and we’ll take you in our conference call (max of 25 people at a time).
> For KeyChat users: before start of either phone or Skype session, send an IM to braillenoteusers at gmail.com and someone will act as a relay between you and those who are on the phone or Skype.
>  
> As always, we’ll try to provide a recording of chat sessions for archival purposes (Skype recording: yes, phone: depends). The recordings of the chat will be available some time after the end of chat.
>  
> Thanks, and we look forward to meeting you on November 2nd.
> Sincerely,
> Joseph Lee
> BrailleNote Users Admid and Webmaster

From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 02:09:59 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 19:09:59 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CAF=_aveMLuNguYZwa8sFJ_LtSiG8LKaPEyQSXCRv6FOKV4FvOw@mail.gmail.com>

Ugh I hate not having control over what I see. I do not do anything with a
reader so I pretty much am not used to listening and remembering and
working under those conditions. I want to scan the code and see what needs
to be done no rely or trust someone else. I have so much usable vision it
is very hard to get people to understand I can't see it on their computer.
I write and read all my notes and not super huge. Larger than others write
but nothing where people would automatically think I had a vision issue.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:03 PM, christopher nusbaum <
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group to be
> a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most easily
> done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based on my
> experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
> make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
> members can get off task, holding back the other members of the group.
> If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
> information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, you
> are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
> necessary.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> >
> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around
> one
> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
> look
> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
> theirs.
> >
> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
> not a
> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
> > talking about.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Suzanne
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 02:14:25 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 20:14:25 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_aveMLuNguYZwa8sFJ_LtSiG8LKaPEyQSXCRv6FOKV4FvOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>
	<CAF=_aveMLuNguYZwa8sFJ_LtSiG8LKaPEyQSXCRv6FOKV4FvOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDqyfPjnYtie+w0vHcUetMm0rC1LXpBmjWn9kH842C7uw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Suzanne and all,

I can understand why listening to a reader might not be optimal, but
it sounds like trying to use your vision is not optimal either, which
is why you are asking us for advice. In the end you will need to
decide which method works better in which situation. A reader can
filter the content down to the part you really need to know. Perhaps
you can take notes while you are listening to the reader, or you could
be writer for the group and type the code rather than having to read
and inspect the code. There is no perfect solution here; the best one
will depend on what it is you have to do. But I would encourage you to
give some serious thought to nonvisual solutions.
Best,
Arielle

On 10/28/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> Ugh I hate not having control over what I see. I do not do anything with a
> reader so I pretty much am not used to listening and remembering and
> working under those conditions. I want to scan the code and see what needs
> to be done no rely or trust someone else. I have so much usable vision it
> is very hard to get people to understand I can't see it on their computer.
> I write and read all my notes and not super huge. Larger than others write
> but nothing where people would automatically think I had a vision issue.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:03 PM, christopher nusbaum <
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group to be
>> a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most easily
>> done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based on my
>> experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
>> make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
>> members can get off task, holding back the other members of the group.
>> If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
>> information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, you
>> are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
>> necessary.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and
>> > several
>> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around
>> one
>> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
>> look
>> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
>> theirs.
>> >
>> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
>> not a
>> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one
>> > having
>> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
>> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
>> > talking about.
>> >
>> > Thank you
>> >
>> > Suzanne
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From nabs.president at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 02:18:18 2013
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 22:18:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Need your help to help a blind student!
Message-ID: <005201ced44d$23239d70$696ad850$@gmail.com>

Good evening,

 

I am looking for anybody who is now studying or has recently studied court
reporting, medical transcription, or a similar field. I have been contacted
by a teacher looking to assist their blind student with access barriers they
are running up against in their studies. If you think you could be of
assistance, please email me at nabs.president at gmail.com and I will put you
in touch.

 

Many thanks,

 

Sean


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 02:32:58 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 21:32:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDqyfPjnYtie+w0vHcUetMm0rC1LXpBmjWn9kH842C7uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>
	<CAF=_aveMLuNguYZwa8sFJ_LtSiG8LKaPEyQSXCRv6FOKV4FvOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDqyfPjnYtie+w0vHcUetMm0rC1LXpBmjWn9kH842C7uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DKS1Cu0Djy1a+wyqt4YqKUeLF7vwN02uH7Yp7A4=nbZPQ@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Arielle here.  I actually enjoy group work(unlike most
people I've met), and I think that the key to working with a good
group is dividing the work properly.  Perhaps you can be the writer
for the group, or maybe you can edit what the others come up with
while taking notes so that you can help along the way.  I don't know
the specifics of the project, but it would be good for you to
communicate clearly with your group that it would be good for everyone
to have specific goals.  This will help the entire project run more
smoothly.



On 10/28/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Suzanne and all,
>
> I can understand why listening to a reader might not be optimal, but
> it sounds like trying to use your vision is not optimal either, which
> is why you are asking us for advice. In the end you will need to
> decide which method works better in which situation. A reader can
> filter the content down to the part you really need to know. Perhaps
> you can take notes while you are listening to the reader, or you could
> be writer for the group and type the code rather than having to read
> and inspect the code. There is no perfect solution here; the best one
> will depend on what it is you have to do. But I would encourage you to
> give some serious thought to nonvisual solutions.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/28/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> Ugh I hate not having control over what I see. I do not do anything with
>> a
>> reader so I pretty much am not used to listening and remembering and
>> working under those conditions. I want to scan the code and see what
>> needs
>> to be done no rely or trust someone else. I have so much usable vision it
>> is very hard to get people to understand I can't see it on their
>> computer.
>> I write and read all my notes and not super huge. Larger than others
>> write
>> but nothing where people would automatically think I had a vision issue.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:03 PM, christopher nusbaum <
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group to be
>>> a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most easily
>>> done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based on my
>>> experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
>>> make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
>>> members can get off task, holding back the other members of the group.
>>> If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
>>> information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, you
>>> are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
>>> necessary.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and
>>> > several
>>> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit
>>> > around
>>> one
>>> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
>>> look
>>> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
>>> theirs.
>>> >
>>> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
>>> not a
>>> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one
>>> > having
>>> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
>>> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
>>> > talking about.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you
>>> >
>>> > Suzanne
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 02:48:47 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 22:48:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A343E993-D5EF-46BB-BE5F-E77ABC67152E@gmail.com>

A few suggestions that come to mind:

1. Coding altogether doesn't sound like a terribly efficient way to do things.  Could you divide the program into pieces for each person to code and then come together?  I realize this presents a new set of problems but it might reduce the amount of time you are struggling with how to access the info.
2. Can you get access to what has been coded so far before the group meets together?  If so, you might be able to review it and make a list of your concerns to address when the group meets together.
3. You definitely have a much better grasp of the capabilities of Zoomtext, but have you experimented with the different viewing options?  I know that you can control the amount of the screen that is magnified, like using a bar magnifier or the lens magnifier.  This would allow you to magnify a small portion of the text at a time and then move the magnification away quickly for partners to view.  

If you could find a way for this last one to work, I think it would be best because it gives you the most control and access.  

Hope some of this sparks a useful idea.

-Greg


On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:58 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:

> I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
> more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around one
> computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to look
> at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see theirs.
> 
> What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is not a
> situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
> zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
> depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
> talking about.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Suzanne
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 02:51:44 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 19:51:44 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDqyfPjnYtie+w0vHcUetMm0rC1LXpBmjWn9kH842C7uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>
	<CAF=_aveMLuNguYZwa8sFJ_LtSiG8LKaPEyQSXCRv6FOKV4FvOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDqyfPjnYtie+w0vHcUetMm0rC1LXpBmjWn9kH842C7uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avci4rntdGcfE0kQ76cWKOhqNW0Wrj_r-45VGK600bce9w@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately I am much more experienced with programming than either of
the other group members so I dont' really think them filtering what is
important would actually be correct.. One seems very clueless and
intimidated by the project (and not getting her part done)

This is a very small project and at this point we need ot see exact code
not just notes from it.

I worked as a computer programmer and used all visual. It is only if I have
to see someone else's monitor and not be able to have resolution where I
need it that there is an issue. I can read regular print if needed. I don't
even really like zoomtext because I dont' see everything at once that is
why I bought a 27 inch monitor for my laptop and only zoom a little bit .I
would rather sit really close and see everything than only get partial
glimpses.

The problem is most people have their resolution set super tiny.

I think I will request DRC put a large monitor in a room in the library so
I can connect laptop to that for future group projects.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Arielle Silverman <
Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:

> Hi Suzanne and all,
>
> I can understand why listening to a reader might not be optimal, but
> it sounds like trying to use your vision is not optimal either, which
> is why you are asking us for advice. In the end you will need to
> decide which method works better in which situation. A reader can
> filter the content down to the part you really need to know. Perhaps
> you can take notes while you are listening to the reader, or you could
> be writer for the group and type the code rather than having to read
> and inspect the code. There is no perfect solution here; the best one
> will depend on what it is you have to do. But I would encourage you to
> give some serious thought to nonvisual solutions.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/28/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> > Ugh I hate not having control over what I see. I do not do anything with
> a
> > reader so I pretty much am not used to listening and remembering and
> > working under those conditions. I want to scan the code and see what
> needs
> > to be done no rely or trust someone else. I have so much usable vision it
> > is very hard to get people to understand I can't see it on their
> computer.
> > I write and read all my notes and not super huge. Larger than others
> write
> > but nothing where people would automatically think I had a vision issue.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:03 PM, christopher nusbaum <
> > dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group to be
> >> a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most easily
> >> done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based on my
> >> experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
> >> make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
> >> members can get off task, holding back the other members of the group.
> >> If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
> >> information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, you
> >> are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
> >> necessary.
> >>
> >> Hope this helps,
> >>
> >> Chris Nusbaum
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and
> >> > several
> >> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit
> around
> >> one
> >> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
> >> look
> >> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
> >> theirs.
> >> >
> >> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
> >> not a
> >> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one
> >> > having
> >> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
> >> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
> >> > talking about.
> >> >
> >> > Thank you
> >> >
> >> > Suzanne
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> >
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 29 02:53:15 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 22:53:15 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F3896037E364A77941A14BF4421B463@OwnerPC>

Suzanne,
I wish you had given more detail because it would be easier to think of 
adaptations.
Are you using your central vision to see? How much magnification i s needed?
So, you all sit around looking  at one pc, and what are you supposed to 
accomplish? Building a website or is it programming?
You referenced seeing the code which could mean html or computer language.
Oh, I so empathize with your reluctance to use a reader.
If I had more vision, I'd use it too. I absolutely hated group assignments 
in which
we had to look at a handout and do something with it. Two examples here, and 
while they did read it to me, it made little difference as it was too much 
to remember and organize in my head. Besides, the noisy environment was NOT! 
conducive to listening clearly. First instance, we had to read a jumbled 
short article in journalism and rearrange the paragraphs in a logical order. 
Second instance, in public relations, we read a page of maybe 12 sentences. 
Our task was to organize them and write a lead paragraph for an article with 
those misarranged sentences. How I wish I could have read them myself 
because I very much wanted to contribute to the group.
Having people read to you doesn't work well in class; you have limited time 
for the activity. Having a student read to you takes up more time as reading 
aloud is slower than reading silently, and then you only hear it once, while 
your classmates study the text and read it multiple times to analyze and 
synthesize it. Oh, and you are then, struggling to hear the darn reader, 
who, has never read to a student before, and is reading too fast or 
unclearly.

Is this a graded project? How large are the groups?

If you can do a task where you do not have to read their screen, this would 
be best. For instance, writing the work to turn in or editing it.
Can you divide the work up and do something just on your pc?
Gee, I was going to suggest dual monitors where you see a mirror of theirs 
on your screen, but you say it won't work.

If you feel the only route is to look at the text, you might have to look at 
it later.
Could your group members look at it on your pc, and then you enlarge it for 
yourself to see?
While I have not done this at school, I did this with other projects at 
summer jobs.
I just enlarged it later to see the layout.
Another option might be for you to get an enlarged print out of what they 
are seeing if they don't have to see multiple screens.

I took a computer concepts class but as we all did individual work, I did 
not have this issue.

I have some vision, but do use a cane and other blindness tools, so I kind 
of see both sides of the issue.
I have my central vision a little bit.
I used print for math as its so spatially different than just reading 
braille text and it was easier to represent charts and diagrams in print.

Its easy for those of us using auditory means to just say that, but we have 
to consider the misunderstanding that arrises when a high partial who does 
not look blind, like yourself, needs assistance. I know from experience that 
getting classmates to read you material is easier said than done, not to 
mention a struggle to understand the reader amidst the background noise.

Good luck.
Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Suzanne Germano
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 8:58 PM
To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects

I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around one
computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to look
at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see theirs.

What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is not a
situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
talking about.

Thank you

Suzanne
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 02:56:33 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 19:56:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DKS1Cu0Djy1a+wyqt4YqKUeLF7vwN02uH7Yp7A4=nbZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>
	<CAF=_aveMLuNguYZwa8sFJ_LtSiG8LKaPEyQSXCRv6FOKV4FvOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDqyfPjnYtie+w0vHcUetMm0rC1LXpBmjWn9kH842C7uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKS1Cu0Djy1a+wyqt4YqKUeLF7vwN02uH7Yp7A4=nbZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_ave-rBJdX9uZ8q+rdPz05C_kLemqVRe=JNdEw9uW4YvMVw@mail.gmail.com>

It's a programming project so we are all responsible to write code for it.

And the thing I dislike more than group projects is writing. I would really
like to graduate without ever writing another paper! Give me hours of math
and programming homework but no papers!


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>wrote:

> I agree with Arielle here.  I actually enjoy group work(unlike most
> people I've met), and I think that the key to working with a good
> group is dividing the work properly.  Perhaps you can be the writer
> for the group, or maybe you can edit what the others come up with
> while taking notes so that you can help along the way.  I don't know
> the specifics of the project, but it would be good for you to
> communicate clearly with your group that it would be good for everyone
> to have specific goals.  This will help the entire project run more
> smoothly.
>
>
>
> On 10/28/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Suzanne and all,
> >
> > I can understand why listening to a reader might not be optimal, but
> > it sounds like trying to use your vision is not optimal either, which
> > is why you are asking us for advice. In the end you will need to
> > decide which method works better in which situation. A reader can
> > filter the content down to the part you really need to know. Perhaps
> > you can take notes while you are listening to the reader, or you could
> > be writer for the group and type the code rather than having to read
> > and inspect the code. There is no perfect solution here; the best one
> > will depend on what it is you have to do. But I would encourage you to
> > give some serious thought to nonvisual solutions.
> > Best,
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 10/28/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> >> Ugh I hate not having control over what I see. I do not do anything with
> >> a
> >> reader so I pretty much am not used to listening and remembering and
> >> working under those conditions. I want to scan the code and see what
> >> needs
> >> to be done no rely or trust someone else. I have so much usable vision
> it
> >> is very hard to get people to understand I can't see it on their
> >> computer.
> >> I write and read all my notes and not super huge. Larger than others
> >> write
> >> but nothing where people would automatically think I had a vision issue.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:03 PM, christopher nusbaum <
> >> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group to be
> >>> a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most easily
> >>> done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based on my
> >>> experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
> >>> make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
> >>> members can get off task, holding back the other members of the group.
> >>> If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
> >>> information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, you
> >>> are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
> >>> necessary.
> >>>
> >>> Hope this helps,
> >>>
> >>> Chris Nusbaum
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> > On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and
> >>> > several
> >>> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit
> >>> > around
> >>> one
> >>> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes
> to
> >>> look
> >>> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
> >>> theirs.
> >>> >
> >>> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
> >>> not a
> >>> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one
> >>> > having
> >>> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
> >>> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
> >>> > talking about.
> >>> >
> >>> > Thank you
> >>> >
> >>> > Suzanne
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > nabs-l mailing list
> >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> >
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 02:59:19 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 19:59:19 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <A343E993-D5EF-46BB-BE5F-E77ABC67152E@gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<A343E993-D5EF-46BB-BE5F-E77ABC67152E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avdvnLsFRCTXC7c-Tg+Qk6XcYzG4u=rRaSBW4dcEO1g0Fg@mail.gmail.com>

We have already divided the work It is at the point where it is all being
put together so we are working together to get it all correct.

Maybe the zoom text bar might work but I never use it because I am used to
working alone and I want everything visible.

I am wondering if we could do something similar to gotomeeting so I could
see their screen and then zoom in as needed


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Greg Aikens <Gregory.Aikens at asu.edu> wrote:

> A few suggestions that come to mind:
>
> 1. Coding altogether doesn't sound like a terribly efficient way to do
> things.  Could you divide the program into pieces for each person to code
> and then come together?  I realize this presents a new set of problems but
> it might reduce the amount of time you are struggling with how to access
> the info.
> 2. Can you get access to what has been coded so far before the group meets
> together?  If so, you might be able to review it and make a list of your
> concerns to address when the group meets together.
> 3. You definitely have a much better grasp of the capabilities of
> Zoomtext, but have you experimented with the different viewing options?  I
> know that you can control the amount of the screen that is magnified, like
> using a bar magnifier or the lens magnifier.  This would allow you to
> magnify a small portion of the text at a time and then move the
> magnification away quickly for partners to view.
>
> If you could find a way for this last one to work, I think it would be
> best because it gives you the most control and access.
>
> Hope some of this sparks a useful idea.
>
> -Greg
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:58 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>
> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around
> one
> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
> look
> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
> theirs.
> >
> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
> not a
> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
> > talking about.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Suzanne
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 29 03:02:20 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 23:02:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <974FEAC8D9D24BC48673B84ABD9430F2@OwnerPC>

Suzanne,
I like  Greg's suggestions! I encourage you to experiment with your zoomtext 
options.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Suzanne Germano
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 8:58 PM
To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects

I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around one
computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to look
at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see theirs.

What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is not a
situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
talking about.

Thank you

Suzanne
_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 03:07:58 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 20:07:58 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <5F3896037E364A77941A14BF4421B463@OwnerPC>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5F3896037E364A77941A14BF4421B463@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avekHMeGJbb5fJ-tfVS418QDo-mkj1r0KMDoqZyPviziWQ@mail.gmail.com>

It's is a c++ programming project. It is a group of three. We had a total
of 3 weeks with almost no guidance. IT was not even talked about in class
until halfway through. It was just posted on blackboard.

We are to write code for a checkers game with 3 players. Each color checker
has special powers for example red checkers have a shield they can use once
when being jumped.

We have all been working on our parts alone but now we are meeting to get
it all working together an make any changes we need. Since almost
everything is in one file it is very difficult at this point to work
independently without stepping on each other.

We are using c++ but the classes before this are java so in addition to the
project itself we are having to check how to do it in C++ with only one
week instruction in it.

The final project is due Saturday. and yes it is graded.

Yes central vision to see. I am just at 20/200 for the most part my reading
vision is good as long as I can get close enough. I use large print but can
read regular if I have to but with more difficult and misread some stuff.
For example I can't do any of the machine organization class in regular
print. Or with the regular diagram for the datapaths.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Ashley Bramlett
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Suzanne,
> I wish you had given more detail because it would be easier to think of
> adaptations.
> Are you using your central vision to see? How much magnification i s
> needed?
> So, you all sit around looking  at one pc, and what are you supposed to
> accomplish? Building a website or is it programming?
> You referenced seeing the code which could mean html or computer language.
> Oh, I so empathize with your reluctance to use a reader.
> If I had more vision, I'd use it too. I absolutely hated group assignments
> in which
> we had to look at a handout and do something with it. Two examples here,
> and while they did read it to me, it made little difference as it was too
> much to remember and organize in my head. Besides, the noisy environment
> was NOT! conducive to listening clearly. First instance, we had to read a
> jumbled short article in journalism and rearrange the paragraphs in a
> logical order. Second instance, in public relations, we read a page of
> maybe 12 sentences. Our task was to organize them and write a lead
> paragraph for an article with those misarranged sentences. How I wish I
> could have read them myself because I very much wanted to contribute to the
> group.
> Having people read to you doesn't work well in class; you have limited
> time for the activity. Having a student read to you takes up more time as
> reading aloud is slower than reading silently, and then you only hear it
> once, while your classmates study the text and read it multiple times to
> analyze and synthesize it. Oh, and you are then, struggling to hear the
> darn reader, who, has never read to a student before, and is reading too
> fast or unclearly.
>
> Is this a graded project? How large are the groups?
>
> If you can do a task where you do not have to read their screen, this
> would be best. For instance, writing the work to turn in or editing it.
> Can you divide the work up and do something just on your pc?
> Gee, I was going to suggest dual monitors where you see a mirror of theirs
> on your screen, but you say it won't work.
>
> If you feel the only route is to look at the text, you might have to look
> at it later.
> Could your group members look at it on your pc, and then you enlarge it
> for yourself to see?
> While I have not done this at school, I did this with other projects at
> summer jobs.
> I just enlarged it later to see the layout.
> Another option might be for you to get an enlarged print out of what they
> are seeing if they don't have to see multiple screens.
>
> I took a computer concepts class but as we all did individual work, I did
> not have this issue.
>
> I have some vision, but do use a cane and other blindness tools, so I kind
> of see both sides of the issue.
> I have my central vision a little bit.
> I used print for math as its so spatially different than just reading
> braille text and it was easier to represent charts and diagrams in print.
>
> Its easy for those of us using auditory means to just say that, but we
> have to consider the misunderstanding that arrises when a high partial who
> does not look blind, like yourself, needs assistance. I know from
> experience that getting classmates to read you material is easier said than
> done, not to mention a struggle to understand the reader amidst the
> background noise.
>
> Good luck.
> Ashley
> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 8:58 PM
> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
>
> I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
> more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around one
> computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to look
> at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see theirs.
>
> What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is not a
> situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
> zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
> depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
> talking about.
>
> Thank you
>
> Suzanne
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
> ______________________________**_________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>

From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 03:09:15 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 20:09:15 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <974FEAC8D9D24BC48673B84ABD9430F2@OwnerPC>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<974FEAC8D9D24BC48673B84ABD9430F2@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avcU8bKU0oApyv+cnneMfm5+CQLwX18c7TUQAETBaXk3=w@mail.gmail.com>

This project is zoomtext only because we are forced to use visual studio so
I have windows running on my mac for that. But otherwise I use mac zoom. I
am not at all impressed with zoomtext for mac even though I have used
zoomtext for windows since it came out.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Ashley Bramlett
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Suzanne,
> I like  Greg's suggestions! I encourage you to experiment with your
> zoomtext options.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 8:58 PM
> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
>
> I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
> more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around one
> computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to look
> at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see theirs.
>
> What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is not a
> situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
> zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
> depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
> talking about.
>
> Thank you
>
> Suzanne
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 29 03:10:08 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 23:10:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avdvnLsFRCTXC7c-Tg+Qk6XcYzG4u=rRaSBW4dcEO1g0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com><A343E993-D5EF-46BB-BE5F-E77ABC67152E@gmail.com>
	<CAF=_avdvnLsFRCTXC7c-Tg+Qk6XcYzG4u=rRaSBW4dcEO1g0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F6F7CEB0AE9E493BB8472D2D3580CEA9@OwnerPC>

Suzanne,
I believe face to face interaction is best. Besides, doesn't Go to meeting 
cost?
Face to face you can show each other things and well, IMO, you just have 
more options than doing it virtually.
Why not just use your pc with zoomtext and take zoomtext off while they look 
at it?
Are you doing this in class or outside?
If outside class, you could hook a larger monitor to the computer so you can 
see their screen. I mean you can use a monitor or projector for it.
Its then like having your own enlarged copy of their screen.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Suzanne Germano
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:59 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects

We have already divided the work It is at the point where it is all being
put together so we are working together to get it all correct.

Maybe the zoom text bar might work but I never use it because I am used to
working alone and I want everything visible.

I am wondering if we could do something similar to gotomeeting so I could
see their screen and then zoom in as needed


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Greg Aikens <Gregory.Aikens at asu.edu> wrote:

> A few suggestions that come to mind:
>
> 1. Coding altogether doesn't sound like a terribly efficient way to do
> things.  Could you divide the program into pieces for each person to code
> and then come together?  I realize this presents a new set of problems but
> it might reduce the amount of time you are struggling with how to access
> the info.
> 2. Can you get access to what has been coded so far before the group meets
> together?  If so, you might be able to review it and make a list of your
> concerns to address when the group meets together.
> 3. You definitely have a much better grasp of the capabilities of
> Zoomtext, but have you experimented with the different viewing options?  I
> know that you can control the amount of the screen that is magnified, like
> using a bar magnifier or the lens magnifier.  This would allow you to
> magnify a small portion of the text at a time and then move the
> magnification away quickly for partners to view.
>
> If you could find a way for this last one to work, I think it would be
> best because it gives you the most control and access.
>
> Hope some of this sparks a useful idea.
>
> -Greg
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:58 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>
> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around
> one
> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
> look
> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
> theirs.
> >
> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
> not a
> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one 
> > having
> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
> > talking about.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Suzanne
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 29 03:18:37 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 23:18:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_ave-rBJdX9uZ8q+rdPz05C_kLemqVRe=JNdEw9uW4YvMVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com><-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid><CAF=_aveMLuNguYZwa8sFJ_LtSiG8LKaPEyQSXCRv6FOKV4FvOw@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDqyfPjnYtie+w0vHcUetMm0rC1LXpBmjWn9kH842C7uw@mail.gmail.com><CAHox4DKS1Cu0Djy1a+wyqt4YqKUeLF7vwN02uH7Yp7A4=nbZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_ave-rBJdX9uZ8q+rdPz05C_kLemqVRe=JNdEw9uW4YvMVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A4D258C6A64A23B6E169287F956331@OwnerPC>

Suzanne,
Well, then, you have to write the code; no way around that. But is there 
another way to participate too?
Perhaps, presenting it to the class or compiling a reference sheet for it?
Also, most computers have a magnification option. Since you have so much 
vision, and say you can even see small print, why not enlarge the print on 
the regular screen the students use?
I understand you want everything visible, but I don't think you can have 
everything given the constraints of your vision and working with a group.
I like the idea of the Zoomtext bar; not being too familiar with zoomtext, I 
forgot about that.


I don't think you should use a platform like Go to Meeting if other students 
want to sit together and work this out. I think you should work around them, 
not the other way around.


Another option might be to simply do a smaller project yourself. I've 
occasionally done this with the permission of the instructor.

I hope it works out.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Suzanne Germano
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects

It's a programming project so we are all responsible to write code for it.

And the thing I dislike more than group projects is writing. I would really
like to graduate without ever writing another paper! Give me hours of math
and programming homework but no papers!


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>wrote:

> I agree with Arielle here.  I actually enjoy group work(unlike most
> people I've met), and I think that the key to working with a good
> group is dividing the work properly.  Perhaps you can be the writer
> for the group, or maybe you can edit what the others come up with
> while taking notes so that you can help along the way.  I don't know
> the specifics of the project, but it would be good for you to
> communicate clearly with your group that it would be good for everyone
> to have specific goals.  This will help the entire project run more
> smoothly.
>
>
>
> On 10/28/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Suzanne and all,
> >
> > I can understand why listening to a reader might not be optimal, but
> > it sounds like trying to use your vision is not optimal either, which
> > is why you are asking us for advice. In the end you will need to
> > decide which method works better in which situation. A reader can
> > filter the content down to the part you really need to know. Perhaps
> > you can take notes while you are listening to the reader, or you could
> > be writer for the group and type the code rather than having to read
> > and inspect the code. There is no perfect solution here; the best one
> > will depend on what it is you have to do. But I would encourage you to
> > give some serious thought to nonvisual solutions.
> > Best,
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 10/28/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> >> Ugh I hate not having control over what I see. I do not do anything 
> >> with
> >> a
> >> reader so I pretty much am not used to listening and remembering and
> >> working under those conditions. I want to scan the code and see what
> >> needs
> >> to be done no rely or trust someone else. I have so much usable vision
> it
> >> is very hard to get people to understand I can't see it on their
> >> computer.
> >> I write and read all my notes and not super huge. Larger than others
> >> write
> >> but nothing where people would automatically think I had a vision 
> >> issue.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:03 PM, christopher nusbaum <
> >> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group to be
> >>> a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most easily
> >>> done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based on my
> >>> experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
> >>> make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
> >>> members can get off task, holding back the other members of the group.
> >>> If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
> >>> information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, you
> >>> are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
> >>> necessary.
> >>>
> >>> Hope this helps,
> >>>
> >>> Chris Nusbaum
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> > On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and
> >>> > several
> >>> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit
> >>> > around
> >>> one
> >>> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes
> to
> >>> look
> >>> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
> >>> theirs.
> >>> >
> >>> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It 
> >>> > is
> >>> not a
> >>> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one
> >>> > having
> >>> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I 
> >>> > see
> >>> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we 
> >>> > are
> >>> > talking about.
> >>> >
> >>> > Thank you
> >>> >
> >>> > Suzanne
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > nabs-l mailing list
> >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> >>> > for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> >
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
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> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>
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From gpaikens at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 03:30:33 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 23:30:33 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avdvnLsFRCTXC7c-Tg+Qk6XcYzG4u=rRaSBW4dcEO1g0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<A343E993-D5EF-46BB-BE5F-E77ABC67152E@gmail.com>
	<CAF=_avdvnLsFRCTXC7c-Tg+Qk6XcYzG4u=rRaSBW4dcEO1g0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E98A3DB0-6556-4D4D-A911-2360F17B8F8B@gmail.com>

I like the remote access idea Suzanne.  Even if you are right next to them, you could both access the screen in your own preferred method.  Maybe something like Join me or Splash top?  Those both have iPad apps associated with them, but I would imagine they also work computer to computer.  It's worth checking out.

-Greg



On Oct 28, 2013, at 10:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:

> We have already divided the work It is at the point where it is all being
> put together so we are working together to get it all correct.
> 
> Maybe the zoom text bar might work but I never use it because I am used to
> working alone and I want everything visible.
> 
> I am wondering if we could do something similar to gotomeeting so I could
> see their screen and then zoom in as needed
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Greg Aikens <Gregory.Aikens at asu.edu> wrote:
> 
>> A few suggestions that come to mind:
>> 
>> 1. Coding altogether doesn't sound like a terribly efficient way to do
>> things.  Could you divide the program into pieces for each person to code
>> and then come together?  I realize this presents a new set of problems but
>> it might reduce the amount of time you are struggling with how to access
>> the info.
>> 2. Can you get access to what has been coded so far before the group meets
>> together?  If so, you might be able to review it and make a list of your
>> concerns to address when the group meets together.
>> 3. You definitely have a much better grasp of the capabilities of
>> Zoomtext, but have you experimented with the different viewing options?  I
>> know that you can control the amount of the screen that is magnified, like
>> using a bar magnifier or the lens magnifier.  This would allow you to
>> magnify a small portion of the text at a time and then move the
>> magnification away quickly for partners to view.
>> 
>> If you could find a way for this last one to work, I think it would be
>> best because it gives you the most control and access.
>> 
>> Hope some of this sparks a useful idea.
>> 
>> -Greg
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:58 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
>>> more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around
>> one
>>> computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
>> look
>>> at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
>> theirs.
>>> 
>>> What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
>> not a
>>> situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
>>> zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
>>> depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
>>> talking about.
>>> 
>>> Thank you
>>> 
>>> Suzanne
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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From tyler at tysdomain.com  Tue Oct 29 03:31:08 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 23:31:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <50A4D258C6A64A23B6E169287F956331@OwnerPC>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com><-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid><CAF=_aveMLuNguYZwa8sFJ_LtSiG8LKaPEyQSXCRv6FOKV4FvOw@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDqyfPjnYtie+w0vHcUetMm0rC1LXpBmjWn9kH842C7uw@mail.gmail.com><CAHox4DKS1Cu0Djy1a+wyqt4YqKUeLF7vwN02uH7Yp7A4=nbZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_ave-rBJdX9uZ8q+rdPz05C_kLemqVRe=JNdEw9uW4YvMVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50A4D258C6A64A23B6E169287F956331@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <526F2BFC.2010907@tysdomain.com>

two issues here.
first, working on team projects as a comp sci student is really 
important. you don't have the ability to just take a smaller project if 
you're asked to work as a team on a project, so get used to it now. 
Learn how to use a vc system and it'll save you and your group a lot of 
headache.
Second, I'm not sure what a reference sheet is in the context of 
software development.
On 10/28/2013 11:18 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
> Suzanne,
> Well, then, you have to write the code; no way around that. But is 
> there another way to participate too?
> Perhaps, presenting it to the class or compiling a reference sheet for 
> it?
> Also, most computers have a magnification option. Since you have so 
> much vision, and say you can even see small print, why not enlarge the 
> print on the regular screen the students use?
> I understand you want everything visible, but I don't think you can 
> have everything given the constraints of your vision and working with 
> a group.
> I like the idea of the Zoomtext bar; not being too familiar with 
> zoomtext, I forgot about that.
>
>
> I don't think you should use a platform like Go to Meeting if other 
> students want to sit together and work this out. I think you should 
> work around them, not the other way around.
>
>
> Another option might be to simply do a smaller project yourself. I've 
> occasionally done this with the permission of the instructor.
>
> I hope it works out.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:56 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
>
> It's a programming project so we are all responsible to write code for 
> it.
>
> And the thing I dislike more than group projects is writing. I would 
> really
> like to graduate without ever writing another paper! Give me hours of 
> math
> and programming homework but no papers!
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Julie McGinnity 
> <kaybaycar at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I agree with Arielle here.  I actually enjoy group work(unlike most
>> people I've met), and I think that the key to working with a good
>> group is dividing the work properly.  Perhaps you can be the writer
>> for the group, or maybe you can edit what the others come up with
>> while taking notes so that you can help along the way.  I don't know
>> the specifics of the project, but it would be good for you to
>> communicate clearly with your group that it would be good for everyone
>> to have specific goals.  This will help the entire project run more
>> smoothly.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/28/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Suzanne and all,
>> >
>> > I can understand why listening to a reader might not be optimal, but
>> > it sounds like trying to use your vision is not optimal either, which
>> > is why you are asking us for advice. In the end you will need to
>> > decide which method works better in which situation. A reader can
>> > filter the content down to the part you really need to know. Perhaps
>> > you can take notes while you are listening to the reader, or you could
>> > be writer for the group and type the code rather than having to read
>> > and inspect the code. There is no perfect solution here; the best one
>> > will depend on what it is you have to do. But I would encourage you to
>> > give some serious thought to nonvisual solutions.
>> > Best,
>> > Arielle
>> >
>> > On 10/28/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >> Ugh I hate not having control over what I see. I do not do 
>> anything >> with
>> >> a
>> >> reader so I pretty much am not used to listening and remembering and
>> >> working under those conditions. I want to scan the code and see what
>> >> needs
>> >> to be done no rely or trust someone else. I have so much usable 
>> vision
>> it
>> >> is very hard to get people to understand I can't see it on their
>> >> computer.
>> >> I write and read all my notes and not super huge. Larger than others
>> >> write
>> >> but nothing where people would automatically think I had a vision 
>> >> issue.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:03 PM, christopher nusbaum <
>> >> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group 
>> to be
>> >>> a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most 
>> easily
>> >>> done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based 
>> on my
>> >>> experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
>> >>> make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
>> >>> members can get off task, holding back the other members of the 
>> group.
>> >>> If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
>> >>> information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, 
>> you
>> >>> are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
>> >>> necessary.
>> >>>
>> >>> Hope this helps,
>> >>>
>> >>> Chris Nusbaum
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> > On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and
>> >>> > several
>> >>> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit
>> >>> > around
>> >>> one
>> >>> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one 
>> likes
>> to
>> >>> look
>> >>> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
>> >>> theirs.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. 
>> It >>> > is
>> >>> not a
>> >>> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one
>> >>> > having
>> >>> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what 
>> I >>> > see
>> >>> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area 
>> we >>> > are
>> >>> > talking about.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Thank you
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Suzanne
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>> info >>> > for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com 
>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>> for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
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>>
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
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>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From tyler at tysdomain.com  Tue Oct 29 03:33:28 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 23:33:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avekHMeGJbb5fJ-tfVS418QDo-mkj1r0KMDoqZyPviziWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5F3896037E364A77941A14BF4421B463@OwnerPC>
	<CAF=_avekHMeGJbb5fJ-tfVS418QDo-mkj1r0KMDoqZyPviziWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <526F2C88.5030607@tysdomain.com>

I recommend a few things.
first, team viewer is a free app like go-to assist, so that might be 
worth using. Second, virtion control system (git/whatever). third, 
please please please split your project up into multiple files. You'll 
thank yourself for it later. class definitions in header files, classes 
in cpp files and your main game loop in a main.cpp file.
On 10/28/2013 11:07 PM, Suzanne Germano wrote:
> It's is a c++ programming project. It is a group of three. We had a total
> of 3 weeks with almost no guidance. IT was not even talked about in class
> until halfway through. It was just posted on blackboard.
>
> We are to write code for a checkers game with 3 players. Each color checker
> has special powers for example red checkers have a shield they can use once
> when being jumped.
>
> We have all been working on our parts alone but now we are meeting to get
> it all working together an make any changes we need. Since almost
> everything is in one file it is very difficult at this point to work
> independently without stepping on each other.
>
> We are using c++ but the classes before this are java so in addition to the
> project itself we are having to check how to do it in C++ with only one
> week instruction in it.
>
> The final project is due Saturday. and yes it is graded.
>
> Yes central vision to see. I am just at 20/200 for the most part my reading
> vision is good as long as I can get close enough. I use large print but can
> read regular if I have to but with more difficult and misread some stuff.
> For example I can't do any of the machine organization class in regular
> print. Or with the regular diagram for the datapaths.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Ashley Bramlett
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Suzanne,
>> I wish you had given more detail because it would be easier to think of
>> adaptations.
>> Are you using your central vision to see? How much magnification i s
>> needed?
>> So, you all sit around looking  at one pc, and what are you supposed to
>> accomplish? Building a website or is it programming?
>> You referenced seeing the code which could mean html or computer language.
>> Oh, I so empathize with your reluctance to use a reader.
>> If I had more vision, I'd use it too. I absolutely hated group assignments
>> in which
>> we had to look at a handout and do something with it. Two examples here,
>> and while they did read it to me, it made little difference as it was too
>> much to remember and organize in my head. Besides, the noisy environment
>> was NOT! conducive to listening clearly. First instance, we had to read a
>> jumbled short article in journalism and rearrange the paragraphs in a
>> logical order. Second instance, in public relations, we read a page of
>> maybe 12 sentences. Our task was to organize them and write a lead
>> paragraph for an article with those misarranged sentences. How I wish I
>> could have read them myself because I very much wanted to contribute to the
>> group.
>> Having people read to you doesn't work well in class; you have limited
>> time for the activity. Having a student read to you takes up more time as
>> reading aloud is slower than reading silently, and then you only hear it
>> once, while your classmates study the text and read it multiple times to
>> analyze and synthesize it. Oh, and you are then, struggling to hear the
>> darn reader, who, has never read to a student before, and is reading too
>> fast or unclearly.
>>
>> Is this a graded project? How large are the groups?
>>
>> If you can do a task where you do not have to read their screen, this
>> would be best. For instance, writing the work to turn in or editing it.
>> Can you divide the work up and do something just on your pc?
>> Gee, I was going to suggest dual monitors where you see a mirror of theirs
>> on your screen, but you say it won't work.
>>
>> If you feel the only route is to look at the text, you might have to look
>> at it later.
>> Could your group members look at it on your pc, and then you enlarge it
>> for yourself to see?
>> While I have not done this at school, I did this with other projects at
>> summer jobs.
>> I just enlarged it later to see the layout.
>> Another option might be for you to get an enlarged print out of what they
>> are seeing if they don't have to see multiple screens.
>>
>> I took a computer concepts class but as we all did individual work, I did
>> not have this issue.
>>
>> I have some vision, but do use a cane and other blindness tools, so I kind
>> of see both sides of the issue.
>> I have my central vision a little bit.
>> I used print for math as its so spatially different than just reading
>> braille text and it was easier to represent charts and diagrams in print.
>>
>> Its easy for those of us using auditory means to just say that, but we
>> have to consider the misunderstanding that arrises when a high partial who
>> does not look blind, like yourself, needs assistance. I know from
>> experience that getting classmates to read you material is easier said than
>> done, not to mention a struggle to understand the reader amidst the
>> background noise.
>>
>> Good luck.
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
>> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 8:58 PM
>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
>>
>> I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
>> more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around one
>> computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to look
>> at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see theirs.
>>
>> What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is not a
>> situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
>> zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
>> depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
>> talking about.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Suzanne
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 03:33:56 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 20:33:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <F6F7CEB0AE9E493BB8472D2D3580CEA9@OwnerPC>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<A343E993-D5EF-46BB-BE5F-E77ABC67152E@gmail.com>
	<CAF=_avdvnLsFRCTXC7c-Tg+Qk6XcYzG4u=rRaSBW4dcEO1g0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<F6F7CEB0AE9E493BB8472D2D3580CEA9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avfrpDiw7NTOm+ReqaptHtBvzjc9-nmhZMTz+4oDWj+W2w@mail.gmail.com>

I meant siting side by side but me having their screen on my laptop. So
bascially like mirroring but with laptops.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Ashley Bramlett
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Suzanne,
> I believe face to face interaction is best. Besides, doesn't Go to meeting
> cost?
> Face to face you can show each other things and well, IMO, you just have
> more options than doing it virtually.
> Why not just use your pc with zoomtext and take zoomtext off while they
> look at it?
> Are you doing this in class or outside?
> If outside class, you could hook a larger monitor to the computer so you
> can see their screen. I mean you can use a monitor or projector for it.
> Its then like having your own enlarged copy of their screen.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:59 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
>
> We have already divided the work It is at the point where it is all being
> put together so we are working together to get it all correct.
>
> Maybe the zoom text bar might work but I never use it because I am used to
> working alone and I want everything visible.
>
> I am wondering if we could do something similar to gotomeeting so I could
> see their screen and then zoom in as needed
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Greg Aikens <Gregory.Aikens at asu.edu>
> wrote:
>
>  A few suggestions that come to mind:
>>
>> 1. Coding altogether doesn't sound like a terribly efficient way to do
>> things.  Could you divide the program into pieces for each person to code
>> and then come together?  I realize this presents a new set of problems but
>> it might reduce the amount of time you are struggling with how to access
>> the info.
>> 2. Can you get access to what has been coded so far before the group meets
>> together?  If so, you might be able to review it and make a list of your
>> concerns to address when the group meets together.
>> 3. You definitely have a much better grasp of the capabilities of
>> Zoomtext, but have you experimented with the different viewing options?  I
>> know that you can control the amount of the screen that is magnified, like
>> using a bar magnifier or the lens magnifier.  This would allow you to
>> magnify a small portion of the text at a time and then move the
>> magnification away quickly for partners to view.
>>
>> If you could find a way for this last one to work, I think it would be
>> best because it gives you the most control and access.
>>
>> Hope some of this sparks a useful idea.
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:58 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
>> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around
>> one
>> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
>> look
>> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
>> theirs.
>> >
>> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
>> not a
>> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one >
>> having
>> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
>> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
>> > talking about.
>> >
>> > Thank you
>> >
>> > Suzanne
>> > ______________________________**_________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> gpaikens%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
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>

From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 03:39:09 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 20:39:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <50A4D258C6A64A23B6E169287F956331@OwnerPC>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>
	<CAF=_aveMLuNguYZwa8sFJ_LtSiG8LKaPEyQSXCRv6FOKV4FvOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDqyfPjnYtie+w0vHcUetMm0rC1LXpBmjWn9kH842C7uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKS1Cu0Djy1a+wyqt4YqKUeLF7vwN02uH7Yp7A4=nbZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_ave-rBJdX9uZ8q+rdPz05C_kLemqVRe=JNdEw9uW4YvMVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50A4D258C6A64A23B6E169287F956331@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avfmvEZm-7UCRoHiauYECFez+72dHg++RRYz2cOWxM0ibQ@mail.gmail.com>

We have all already written all our code. We our working on personal
laptops not a school computer. The other student does zoom his is when
showing me a particular area which is great and works well. We are almost
all done but are meeting this week to finalize so all the code will be on
one computer and nwo will will see what issues have come up so we all need
to be looking at it to see where  things might need to be changed.

There is no presentation it is just the code.

I have taking many programming classes and worked in the field several
years ago as a programmer. So the hardest part about working this way is
not having a true feel of what is going on. I don't have my hands and eyes
on it to scan for what may need to be changed.

I mainly asked for future ideas since I have a feeling there will be many
more group programming projects before I am done.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Ashley Bramlett
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Suzanne,
> Well, then, you have to write the code; no way around that. But is there
> another way to participate too?
> Perhaps, presenting it to the class or compiling a reference sheet for it?
> Also, most computers have a magnification option. Since you have so much
> vision, and say you can even see small print, why not enlarge the print on
> the regular screen the students use?
> I understand you want everything visible, but I don't think you can have
> everything given the constraints of your vision and working with a group.
> I like the idea of the Zoomtext bar; not being too familiar with zoomtext,
> I forgot about that.
>
>
> I don't think you should use a platform like Go to Meeting if other
> students want to sit together and work this out. I think you should work
> around them, not the other way around.
>
>
> Another option might be to simply do a smaller project yourself. I've
> occasionally done this with the permission of the instructor.
>
> I hope it works out.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:56 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
>
> It's a programming project so we are all responsible to write code for it.
>
> And the thing I dislike more than group projects is writing. I would really
> like to graduate without ever writing another paper! Give me hours of math
> and programming homework but no papers!
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
>  I agree with Arielle here.  I actually enjoy group work(unlike most
>> people I've met), and I think that the key to working with a good
>> group is dividing the work properly.  Perhaps you can be the writer
>> for the group, or maybe you can edit what the others come up with
>> while taking notes so that you can help along the way.  I don't know
>> the specifics of the project, but it would be good for you to
>> communicate clearly with your group that it would be good for everyone
>> to have specific goals.  This will help the entire project run more
>> smoothly.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/28/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Suzanne and all,
>> >
>> > I can understand why listening to a reader might not be optimal, but
>> > it sounds like trying to use your vision is not optimal either, which
>> > is why you are asking us for advice. In the end you will need to
>> > decide which method works better in which situation. A reader can
>> > filter the content down to the part you really need to know. Perhaps
>> > you can take notes while you are listening to the reader, or you could
>> > be writer for the group and type the code rather than having to read
>> > and inspect the code. There is no perfect solution here; the best one
>> > will depend on what it is you have to do. But I would encourage you to
>> > give some serious thought to nonvisual solutions.
>> > Best,
>> > Arielle
>> >
>> > On 10/28/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >> Ugh I hate not having control over what I see. I do not do anything >>
>> with
>> >> a
>> >> reader so I pretty much am not used to listening and remembering and
>> >> working under those conditions. I want to scan the code and see what
>> >> needs
>> >> to be done no rely or trust someone else. I have so much usable vision
>> it
>> >> is very hard to get people to understand I can't see it on their
>> >> computer.
>> >> I write and read all my notes and not super huge. Larger than others
>> >> write
>> >> but nothing where people would automatically think I had a vision >>
>> issue.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:03 PM, christopher nusbaum <
>> >> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group to be
>> >>> a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most easily
>> >>> done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based on my
>> >>> experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
>> >>> make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
>> >>> members can get off task, holding back the other members of the group.
>> >>> If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
>> >>> information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, you
>> >>> are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
>> >>> necessary.
>> >>>
>> >>> Hope this helps,
>> >>>
>> >>> Chris Nusbaum
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> > On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and
>> >>> > several
>> >>> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit
>> >>> > around
>> >>> one
>> >>> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes
>> to
>> >>> look
>> >>> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
>> >>> theirs.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It
>> >>> > is
>> >>> not a
>> >>> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one
>> >>> > having
>> >>> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I
>> >>> > see
>> >>> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we
>> >>> > are
>> >>> > talking about.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Thank you
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Suzanne
>> >>> > ______________________________**_________________
>> >>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>> > for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com>
>> >>>
>> >>> ______________________________**_________________
>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> sgermano%40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu>
>> >>>
>> >> ______________________________**_________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> arielle71%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com>
>> >>
>> >
>> > ______________________________**_________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
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>> kaybaycar%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com>
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>  ______________________________**_________________
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>

From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 03:40:00 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 20:40:00 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <E98A3DB0-6556-4D4D-A911-2360F17B8F8B@gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<A343E993-D5EF-46BB-BE5F-E77ABC67152E@gmail.com>
	<CAF=_avdvnLsFRCTXC7c-Tg+Qk6XcYzG4u=rRaSBW4dcEO1g0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E98A3DB0-6556-4D4D-A911-2360F17B8F8B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avciRU+Ug5VuEs7-35nQxAr95quCoNLWZWNqt+Tu0JaQ5g@mail.gmail.com>

Ya that's what I am thinking might be best. I will look at those


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Greg Aikens <Gregory.Aikens at asu.edu> wrote:

> I like the remote access idea Suzanne.  Even if you are right next to
> them, you could both access the screen in your own preferred method.  Maybe
> something like Join me or Splash top?  Those both have iPad apps associated
> with them, but I would imagine they also work computer to computer.  It's
> worth checking out.
>
> -Greg
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 10:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>
> > We have already divided the work It is at the point where it is all being
> > put together so we are working together to get it all correct.
> >
> > Maybe the zoom text bar might work but I never use it because I am used
> to
> > working alone and I want everything visible.
> >
> > I am wondering if we could do something similar to gotomeeting so I could
> > see their screen and then zoom in as needed
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Greg Aikens <Gregory.Aikens at asu.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> >> A few suggestions that come to mind:
> >>
> >> 1. Coding altogether doesn't sound like a terribly efficient way to do
> >> things.  Could you divide the program into pieces for each person to
> code
> >> and then come together?  I realize this presents a new set of problems
> but
> >> it might reduce the amount of time you are struggling with how to access
> >> the info.
> >> 2. Can you get access to what has been coded so far before the group
> meets
> >> together?  If so, you might be able to review it and make a list of your
> >> concerns to address when the group meets together.
> >> 3. You definitely have a much better grasp of the capabilities of
> >> Zoomtext, but have you experimented with the different viewing options?
>  I
> >> know that you can control the amount of the screen that is magnified,
> like
> >> using a bar magnifier or the lens magnifier.  This would allow you to
> >> magnify a small portion of the text at a time and then move the
> >> magnification away quickly for partners to view.
> >>
> >> If you could find a way for this last one to work, I think it would be
> >> best because it gives you the most control and access.
> >>
> >> Hope some of this sparks a useful idea.
> >>
> >> -Greg
> >>
> >>
> >> On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:58 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and
> several
> >>> more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around
> >> one
> >>> computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
> >> look
> >>> at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
> >> theirs.
> >>>
> >>> What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
> >> not a
> >>> situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one
> having
> >>> zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
> >>> depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
> >>> talking about.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you
> >>>
> >>> Suzanne
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 29 04:01:42 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 00:01:42 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avfrpDiw7NTOm+ReqaptHtBvzjc9-nmhZMTz+4oDWj+W2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com><A343E993-D5EF-46BB-BE5F-E77ABC67152E@gmail.com><CAF=_avdvnLsFRCTXC7c-Tg+Qk6XcYzG4u=rRaSBW4dcEO1g0Fg@mail.gmail.com><F6F7CEB0AE9E493BB8472D2D3580CEA9@OwnerPC>
	<CAF=_avfrpDiw7NTOm+ReqaptHtBvzjc9-nmhZMTz+4oDWj+W2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FC0FA5012F19423BBEF640A303209CBE@OwnerPC>

Suzanne,
If you are sitting side by side using the remote access method
then, yes, this may work provided the other students will cooperate because 
they will all have to use this remote system for it to work.

You said you all have your own personal laptops. I still then think my idea 
of projecting it  to a screen might work.
I'm not tech savvy and don't know what they're called. But, in my community 
college library they have screens which look like tv screens. Students can 
connect a cable from their laptop to the monitor. As a group, they can then 
see everything on that screen. I'm thinking this may be big enough for you 
to see.
These monitors are used for group study or projects just as you are doing.

If you want more details on this connection  system, I'll find out what it 
is from the tech librarian and tell you.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Suzanne Germano
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 11:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects

I meant siting side by side but me having their screen on my laptop. So
bascially like mirroring but with laptops.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Ashley Bramlett
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Suzanne,
> I believe face to face interaction is best. Besides, doesn't Go to meeting
> cost?
> Face to face you can show each other things and well, IMO, you just have
> more options than doing it virtually.
> Why not just use your pc with zoomtext and take zoomtext off while they
> look at it?
> Are you doing this in class or outside?
> If outside class, you could hook a larger monitor to the computer so you
> can see their screen. I mean you can use a monitor or projector for it.
> Its then like having your own enlarged copy of their screen.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:59 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
>
> We have already divided the work It is at the point where it is all being
> put together so we are working together to get it all correct.
>
> Maybe the zoom text bar might work but I never use it because I am used to
> working alone and I want everything visible.
>
> I am wondering if we could do something similar to gotomeeting so I could
> see their screen and then zoom in as needed
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Greg Aikens <Gregory.Aikens at asu.edu>
> wrote:
>
>  A few suggestions that come to mind:
>>
>> 1. Coding altogether doesn't sound like a terribly efficient way to do
>> things.  Could you divide the program into pieces for each person to code
>> and then come together?  I realize this presents a new set of problems 
>> but
>> it might reduce the amount of time you are struggling with how to access
>> the info.
>> 2. Can you get access to what has been coded so far before the group 
>> meets
>> together?  If so, you might be able to review it and make a list of your
>> concerns to address when the group meets together.
>> 3. You definitely have a much better grasp of the capabilities of
>> Zoomtext, but have you experimented with the different viewing options? 
>> I
>> know that you can control the amount of the screen that is magnified, 
>> like
>> using a bar magnifier or the lens magnifier.  This would allow you to
>> magnify a small portion of the text at a time and then move the
>> magnification away quickly for partners to view.
>>
>> If you could find a way for this last one to work, I think it would be
>> best because it gives you the most control and access.
>>
>> Hope some of this sparks a useful idea.
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:58 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and 
>> > several
>> > more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around
>> one
>> > computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
>> look
>> > at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
>> theirs.
>> >
>> > What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
>> not a
>> > situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one >
>> having
>> > zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
>> > depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
>> > talking about.
>> >
>> > Thank you
>> >
>> > Suzanne
>> > ______________________________**_________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> gpaikens%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> sgermano%40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu>
>>
>>  ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
> ______________________________**_________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
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From tyler at tysdomain.com  Tue Oct 29 05:01:09 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 01:01:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <526F4115.4080009@tysdomain.com>

this is utterly useless. she wants to know how to read the code, not how 
to manage her group's task keeping abilities. First, a reader isn't the 
way to go for code. there are to many punctuation symbols and naming 
conventions, it's not something that reads like text. Second, if she's 
using any editor worth anything there's syntax highlighting which she 
probably, like most sighted people relies on. I recommend using 
something like team viewer if you -have- to see the screen, that way you 
can magnify it all you want.
HTH,
On 10/28/2013 10:03 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote:
> In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group to be
> a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most easily
> done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based on my
> experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
> make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
> members can get off task, holding back the other members of the group.
> If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
> information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, you
> are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
> necessary.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
>> more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around one
>> computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to look
>> at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see theirs.
>>
>> What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is not a
>> situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
>> zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
>> depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
>> talking about.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Suzanne
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com


-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From sgermano at asu.edu  Tue Oct 29 05:19:57 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 22:19:57 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Best techniques for group computer science projects
In-Reply-To: <526F4115.4080009@tysdomain.com>
References: <CAF=_avfr2G0-38aW-UcgidrAaKLV11inCA7eT4WcxUSY=GGWsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-7070640124759964680@unknownmsgid>
	<526F4115.4080009@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avd1FmjX3Gkg4q8LNLu=L=80Lv-m2R68dteSFJPb36dHdg@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't heard of team viewer. I'll look into that. Thank you.

Like I said this project had a very small time frame so I  was not about to
spend time learning and making them learn a VC control. I tried to work
with git with bitbucket last class for just my stuff since I was using 3
different computers and it took awhile to get it sort of working. I have ot
be careful not to use a public host or I could end up failing the class for
allowing my code to be seen.

I don't use much of the color or highlighting in the editor since I am
color blind. But yes I am very much used to looking at the code, looking at
the indentation etc.

I assume most future group projects will be more "real" meaning not having
so much in one file. I have software engineering next semester and I know
there is a very big group project.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com>wrote:

> this is utterly useless. she wants to know how to read the code, not how
> to manage her group's task keeping abilities. First, a reader isn't the way
> to go for code. there are to many punctuation symbols and naming
> conventions, it's not something that reads like text. Second, if she's
> using any editor worth anything there's syntax highlighting which she
> probably, like most sighted people relies on. I recommend using something
> like team viewer if you -have- to see the screen, that way you can magnify
> it all you want.
> HTH,
> On 10/28/2013 10:03 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote:
>
>> In these situations I often ask one of my partners in the group to be
>> a reader for me. If it is a group of two or more, this is most easily
>> done by the person who is sitting closest to the computer. Based on my
>> experience with these types of group projects, I must advise you to
>> make sure you hold that reader accountable. Sometimes some group
>> members can get off task, holding back the other members of the group.
>> If you are relying on one member of the group to read you the
>> information on the computer screen and that reader gets off task, you
>> are at a loss. So, you might need to "mag" your reader if this is
>> necessary.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>  On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a group project in one of my computer science classes and several
>>> more to come before I finish the degree. Most sighted people sit around
>>> one
>>> computer and all look at the screen. I use ZoomText so no one likes to
>>> look
>>> at my screen since you lose so much view but obviously I can't see
>>> theirs.
>>>
>>> What techniques do you find work best for situations like this. It is
>>> not a
>>> situation that we could run dual monitors and mirror them with one having
>>> zoom text enlarged. I am also not super fond of that since what I see
>>> depends on where they have the mouse which may not be the area we are
>>> talking about.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>> Suzanne
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>> dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com>
>>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> tyler%40tysdomain.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com>
>>
>
>
> --
> Take care,
> Ty
> http://tds-solutions.net
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
> that dares not reason is a slave.
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**sgermano%40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu>
>

From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 13:10:57 2013
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 09:10:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] A Message For Blind Students in Boston
Message-ID: <526fb3ec.4808ec0a.282b.fffff111@mx.google.com>

This message so for any blind students in the Boston area.  I am 
looking for a teacher who taught me at the Agassiz School in 
Boston in 1995.  Her name is Miss Peg Faigley.  If you know her 
email address and can give it to me please email me off list as 
soon as possible.


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 13:13:19 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 09:13:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Need your help to help a blind student!
In-Reply-To: <005201ced44d$23239d70$696ad850$@gmail.com>
References: <005201ced44d$23239d70$696ad850$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <011801ced4a8$a3ae81c0$eb0b8540$@gmail.com>

Try the afb website.  Look under career  connect.  You should be able to
find a medical transcriptionist. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sean Whalen
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:18 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org; nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Need your help to help a blind student!

Good evening,

 

I am looking for anybody who is now studying or has recently studied court
reporting, medical transcription, or a similar field. I have been contacted
by a teacher looking to assist their blind student with access barriers they
are running up against in their studies. If you think you could be of
assistance, please email me at nabs.president at gmail.com and I will put you
in touch.

 

Many thanks,

 

Sean

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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.com



From shickeytha at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 16:21:10 2013
From: shickeytha at gmail.com (Shickeytha Chandler)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:21:10 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Masters in Public Administration
Message-ID: <CAFCkBpsVgtRPpdgaU1uCt0LXWFJZ3ApfG52c4nGg97LhNZu2+w@mail.gmail.com>

Good afternoon all,

I am a blind individual in North Carolina. I received my undergraduate
degree in Accounting several years ago, and I now have an interest in
obtaining a Master's in Public Administration with a concentration
possibly in either Policy or in Budget/Finance. I am wondering if
there is anyone on this list who either has earned or is currently
working on an MPA. If so, I would love to hear about your experiences,
what type of job your degree enabled you to obtain, etc.

Thanks in advance for any insight that you can provide!

Shickeytha


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 17:43:43 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 10:43:43 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Masters in Public Administration
In-Reply-To: <CAFCkBpsVgtRPpdgaU1uCt0LXWFJZ3ApfG52c4nGg97LhNZu2+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFCkBpsVgtRPpdgaU1uCt0LXWFJZ3ApfG52c4nGg97LhNZu2+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdzCZLY+R5zyEfK6MdYkCo5FzSXFkSfds=Fx5Xu8t-jxFA@mail.gmail.com>

There is also a national student list, and you will probably get a lot
more response that way. It is a great list to join, but if you'd
rather, I can pass it along there and direct any contacts to you.

Cindy

On 10/29/13, Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com> wrote:
> Good afternoon all,
>
> I am a blind individual in North Carolina. I received my undergraduate
> degree in Accounting several years ago, and I now have an interest in
> obtaining a Master's in Public Administration with a concentration
> possibly in either Policy or in Budget/Finance. I am wondering if
> there is anyone on this list who either has earned or is currently
> working on an MPA. If so, I would love to hear about your experiences,
> what type of job your degree enabled you to obtain, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight that you can provide!
>
> Shickeytha
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From jty727 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 20:24:37 2013
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:24:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Masters in Public Administration
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdzCZLY+R5zyEfK6MdYkCo5FzSXFkSfds=Fx5Xu8t-jxFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFCkBpsVgtRPpdgaU1uCt0LXWFJZ3ApfG52c4nGg97LhNZu2+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACUFQdzCZLY+R5zyEfK6MdYkCo5FzSXFkSfds=Fx5Xu8t-jxFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s4QE=GJjoWOvy_ej2-rPuodxPoSDw7Are8Cn+aNjNMCtA@mail.gmail.com>

What is the Public Administration list called?  I've been interested
in the possibility of going into that field as well.  Thanks for the
resource!

On 10/29/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> There is also a national student list, and you will probably get a lot
> more response that way. It is a great list to join, but if you'd
> rather, I can pass it along there and direct any contacts to you.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/29/13, Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good afternoon all,
>>
>> I am a blind individual in North Carolina. I received my undergraduate
>> degree in Accounting several years ago, and I now have an interest in
>> obtaining a Master's in Public Administration with a concentration
>> possibly in either Policy or in Budget/Finance. I am wondering if
>> there is anyone on this list who either has earned or is currently
>> working on an MPA. If so, I would love to hear about your experiences,
>> what type of job your degree enabled you to obtain, etc.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any insight that you can provide!
>>
>> Shickeytha
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From brailleprincess at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 20:41:29 2013
From: brailleprincess at gmail.com (Kayla Weathers)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:41:29 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Question concerning MLA formatting and JAWS
Message-ID: <CAGpn82ROuR-YL=s8gOA4_ndPhwRc40vcNjHEJqK-BKSF+PL3Ew@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
As students I know many of us have had to write countless papers. I
have a few specific questions about how to insure that papers in MLA
are formatted correctly using JAWS. Is there a way to block quote
specific text, and insure that the quotes are blocked properly? I was
also wondering how to insert a header with my last name and page
number on every page of my paper and insure that it is in correct MLA
format?
I appreciate any feedback or suggestions to insure that my papers are
formatted correctly.
Thanks, Kayla


From treyman19 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 21:00:15 2013
From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:00:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Help with Braille display
Message-ID: <CECEA76E-745B-440A-8148-B558299F880E@gmail.com>

Hi what is a good braille display for a computer and iPhone

Sent from my iPhone


From oliver.doug1 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 21:03:50 2013
From: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com (Doug)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:03:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Help with Braille display
In-Reply-To: <CECEA76E-745B-440A-8148-B558299F880E@gmail.com>
References: <CECEA76E-745B-440A-8148-B558299F880E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANL8T4EdFEZOiM+1sFSF/CgigQAAEAAAAJMvpmOmVbhOs35afQ98R9IBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Focus 14 blue is a great one.
It works well with the iphone


Email: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Trey Bradley
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 4:00 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Help with Braille display

Hi what is a good braille display for a computer and iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

_______________________________________________
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From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Tue Oct 29 21:04:21 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 21:04:21 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Help with Braille display
In-Reply-To: <CECEA76E-745B-440A-8148-B558299F880E@gmail.com>
References: <CECEA76E-745B-440A-8148-B558299F880E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dc9e197846a344939fe4ebd492908c27@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

The Focus 40 Blue.
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Trey Bradley [treyman19 at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 4:00 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Help with Braille display

Hi what is a good braille display for a computer and iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

_______________________________________________
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From leyeshprintse at ymail.com  Tue Oct 29 21:34:37 2013
From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Leye-Shprintse_=C3=96berg?=)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 22:34:37 +0100
Subject: [nabs-l] Help with Braille display
In-Reply-To: <CECEA76E-745B-440A-8148-B558299F880E@gmail.com>
References: <CECEA76E-745B-440A-8148-B558299F880E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EA95F0-1E25-4C49-AB35-B45FB5D896E3@ymail.com>

BS"D

Trey,

I've a BraillePen12, it's a good display but often it went out of focus when you try to read comments and such on Facebook and other app. A minus is also that it doesn't have any oouting tangents as the Focus 14 Blue. I'd choose the Focus display today! BAUM also has an mini display, VarioConnect 12 but their displays are very expensive! I think it exists a display called EasyLink 12 also but I know nothing about it, I was told that the Low Vision Centres here in Sweden were replacing it with the BraillePen12 instead. Just some thoughts from me. Good luck!

Lesholom,
Leye-Shprintse <3

From i.c.bray at win.net  Tue Oct 29 22:34:45 2013
From: i.c.bray at win.net (I. C. Bray)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 18:34:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Help with Braille display
References: <CECEA76E-745B-440A-8148-B558299F880E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8BE6C79E00E14566AE2C93D9DA07C523@JAWS>

Freedom Scientific FOCUS Blue.

'Nuff Said.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Trey Bradley" <treyman19 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 5:00 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Help with Braille display


: Hi what is a good braille display for a computer and iPhone
:
: Sent from my iPhone
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From keke.davis91 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 30 05:17:54 2013
From: keke.davis91 at gmail.com (Keira Davis)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 01:17:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] neonatal nurse
Message-ID: <CAN2qfC0dWgAf6nOLaOgRcsPug3c=Q3AhpZ2Gw+jRAaNrj3a1eQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello. For some time now, I have been thinking of a career. I really
want to become a neonatal nurse. My questions are for all of the
college students. When you had a passion to study something, how did
you deal with college authority telling you that it wouldn't be
possible? How did you show them that it was, in fact possible for you
to do this? This are just some question. I really want to do this, but
these are the things i'm afraid i'm going to run into. Please help. If
anyone knows someone who could give me some guidance, I would  be
thankful


From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 30 05:42:30 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 05:42:30 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] neonatal nurse
In-Reply-To: <CAN2qfC0dWgAf6nOLaOgRcsPug3c=Q3AhpZ2Gw+jRAaNrj3a1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN2qfC0dWgAf6nOLaOgRcsPug3c=Q3AhpZ2Gw+jRAaNrj3a1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH68N+mFeMw6xP1tWHfQhqOLUqrQ1coBj3JHLoZO+E59XZw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Keira,
State your case as well as you can. Give them your reasons for wanting
this career and let them know about possible solutions you have come
up with for the problems ahead. Before they tell you,
"You can't possibly do this or that," tell them how you are able to do
this or that.

Have you tried Career Connect? There might be someone there who
followed the same career path you want and they could give you more
case specific help.

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 10/30/13, Keira Davis <keke.davis91 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello. For some time now, I have been thinking of a career. I really
> want to become a neonatal nurse. My questions are for all of the
> college students. When you had a passion to study something, how did
> you deal with college authority telling you that it wouldn't be
> possible? How did you show them that it was, in fact possible for you
> to do this? This are just some question. I really want to do this, but
> these are the things i'm afraid i'm going to run into. Please help. If
> anyone knows someone who could give me some guidance, I would  be
> thankful
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From keke.davis91 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 30 05:57:49 2013
From: keke.davis91 at gmail.com (Keira Davis)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 01:57:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] neonatal nurse
In-Reply-To: <CAJcYH68N+mFeMw6xP1tWHfQhqOLUqrQ1coBj3JHLoZO+E59XZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN2qfC0dWgAf6nOLaOgRcsPug3c=Q3AhpZ2Gw+jRAaNrj3a1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH68N+mFeMw6xP1tWHfQhqOLUqrQ1coBj3JHLoZO+E59XZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN2qfC0ORMskHyHBZaQQc0_stUTBHs_yGWNs3YOcm7F_wU7_0A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to the both of you. Sandra, I haven't tried career connect yet.
That will be my next look. I talked to Fred, my state president and he
said that he will help me. If I don't become a neonatal nurse, I would
take just being a nurse. It's like it's in my blood. My mom's a nurse,
sisters, aunt, and just everyone. I love going with them to work and
jus trying to help out as best as I can. or, use to love doing it.
School has gotten in the way. I go with my aunt if I'm home. Sh'e a
PCA, Person care assistant. I wonder if that could be something I
could start off doing?

On 10/30/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Keira,
> State your case as well as you can. Give them your reasons for wanting
> this career and let them know about possible solutions you have come
> up with for the problems ahead. Before they tell you,
> "You can't possibly do this or that," tell them how you are able to do
> this or that.
>
> Have you tried Career Connect? There might be someone there who
> followed the same career path you want and they could give you more
> case specific help.
>
> Very best wishes,
> Sandra.
>
> On 10/30/13, Keira Davis <keke.davis91 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello. For some time now, I have been thinking of a career. I really
>> want to become a neonatal nurse. My questions are for all of the
>> college students. When you had a passion to study something, how did
>> you deal with college authority telling you that it wouldn't be
>> possible? How did you show them that it was, in fact possible for you
>> to do this? This are just some question. I really want to do this, but
>> these are the things i'm afraid i'm going to run into. Please help. If
>> anyone knows someone who could give me some guidance, I would  be
>> thankful
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Soprano Singer
>  www.sandragayer.com
>
> Broadcast Presenter
>
> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/keke.davis91%40gmail.com
>


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Wed Oct 30 06:02:45 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 06:02:45 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] neonatal nurse
In-Reply-To: <CAN2qfC0ORMskHyHBZaQQc0_stUTBHs_yGWNs3YOcm7F_wU7_0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN2qfC0dWgAf6nOLaOgRcsPug3c=Q3AhpZ2Gw+jRAaNrj3a1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH68N+mFeMw6xP1tWHfQhqOLUqrQ1coBj3JHLoZO+E59XZw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAN2qfC0ORMskHyHBZaQQc0_stUTBHs_yGWNs3YOcm7F_wU7_0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1da3574aa9e8440aa471bdbabee62752@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Keira, I must ask this question.
Do you have any sight at all?
If so, you may be able to do some things.
PCA's may require little to no sight.
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Keira Davis [keke.davis91 at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 12:57 AM
To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] neonatal nurse

Thanks to the both of you. Sandra, I haven't tried career connect yet.
That will be my next look. I talked to Fred, my state president and he
said that he will help me. If I don't become a neonatal nurse, I would
take just being a nurse. It's like it's in my blood. My mom's a nurse,
sisters, aunt, and just everyone. I love going with them to work and
jus trying to help out as best as I can. or, use to love doing it.
School has gotten in the way. I go with my aunt if I'm home. Sh'e a
PCA, Person care assistant. I wonder if that could be something I
could start off doing?

On 10/30/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Keira,
> State your case as well as you can. Give them your reasons for wanting
> this career and let them know about possible solutions you have come
> up with for the problems ahead. Before they tell you,
> "You can't possibly do this or that," tell them how you are able to do
> this or that.
>
> Have you tried Career Connect? There might be someone there who
> followed the same career path you want and they could give you more
> case specific help.
>
> Very best wishes,
> Sandra.
>
> On 10/30/13, Keira Davis <keke.davis91 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello. For some time now, I have been thinking of a career. I really
>> want to become a neonatal nurse. My questions are for all of the
>> college students. When you had a passion to study something, how did
>> you deal with college authority telling you that it wouldn't be
>> possible? How did you show them that it was, in fact possible for you
>> to do this? This are just some question. I really want to do this, but
>> these are the things i'm afraid i'm going to run into. Please help. If
>> anyone knows someone who could give me some guidance, I would  be
>> thankful
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Soprano Singer
>  www.sandragayer.com
>
> Broadcast Presenter
>
> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/keke.davis91%40gmail.com
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From treyman19 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 30 17:30:34 2013
From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:30:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] OT in need of a Braille did splay
Message-ID: <8DBEC22E-F2CE-4EC0-9DB0-513C2D739F61@gmail.com>

Hi I have a Braille embosser that I had for two years  but I do not use it much  but I am wondering if some one have a Braille display that have Bluetooth capabilities?
Sent from my iPhone

From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Thu Oct 31 02:00:14 2013
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 22:00:14 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] questions about SPSS
Message-ID: <CAN+-G_BK1jFLqDbm8E-ssHTndyzWouDB4RiAYgC_DEd7mKdu2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,
I'm in a research methods class and we're going to be starting SPSS
soon. Has anyone on this list worked with SPSS before? How
user-friendly is it with JAWS? If it's not, is there another program I
can use that will do the same things as SPSS? Any JAWS keystrokes that
I should know beforehand?
Thanks,
Patrick