[nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
justin williams
justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Fri Oct 18 12:40:54 UTC 2013
Holy crap; that easy then? Yeah, send out what ever instructions you have. I
will have to use powerpoint next semester. Thanks man. Good looking out.
Peace. .
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Miller
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 8:38 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
Hi to all! I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but there is a
easy way to create a PowerPoint slideshow, starting in Microsoft Word. You
type the text of your slides, line by line, in Word, with no blank lines.
Then format the slide titles as heading 1 and all bullet lines as heading 2.
Formatting the text as heading 1 or heading 2 is easy. Then, save and close
the Word file and open it up in PowerPoint and the slides will automatically
be created with whatever theme you have as your default theme. The hard part
is done. Then if you want, you can go and select the desired theme, slide
transitions and sounds. You can Google how to do this or if you want I can
send out the simple instructions.
Robert
--------------------------------------------------
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:00 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: PowerPoint (Cindy Bennett)
> 2. Re: PowerPoint (Misty Dawn Bradley)
> 3. iPhone (justin williams)
> 4. Re: iPhone (Misty Dawn Bradley)
> 5. Re: iPhone (justin williams)
> 6. Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
> (David Andrews)
> 7. Re: iPhone (Sophie Trist)
> 8. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate (Arielle Silverman)
> 9. Re: Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while still
> being compassionate (Jedi Moerke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:30:26 -0700
> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID:
> <CACUFQdw=+rHPWaCobLhYirSDiSCPj+7Kx400Je+wtBf06UsaEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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m
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:43:51 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
> Message-ID: <9BD3B923B509438EBD901E5C4847C841 at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Cindy,
> Those are good points. Also, if you are going to use any audio or video
> media in your presentation, it is best to set the Powerpoint slide up to
> play it automatically when you get to that slide, as there is no way to
> click on the play video button in the slide independently when presenting
> it. I have come across this a lot in Powerpoints that professors have made
> for the students to study. Usually, I cannot listen to the videos or
> audios
> in the presentation, because there is no way to click the play button with
> JAWS as far as I know.
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cindy Bennett
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>
> Thanks Misty!
>
> I would add that although you can make a PowerPoint, it is always a
> good idea to have a sighted person look over it. If you can combine
> this work with other reader work, then you will save time with the
> reader. For example, one semester, I had to make 4 presentations. I
> made all of them and then had the reader edit them all at once which
> took about an hour instead of having to meet up with him 4 separate
> times. I paid for this person out of pocket because it was sporadic
> work. However, I was able to get a reader funded for my statistics
> courses through the disability office, so if this is going to be more
> than a one-time thing, or if you anticipate needing readers in the
> future, asking this office or your division of services for the blind
> may be a way to get readers funded.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 10/17/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Juanita,
>> Freedom Scientific also has a free training tutorial with practice files.
>> I
>>
>> don't have the link to it, but I am attaching the downloaded copy in .zip
>> format as an attachment to this email, as Freedom Scientific says in the
>> bottom of the document that it can be shared as long as Freedom
>> Scientific
>> is acknowledged as the copyright holder. I found this very helpful in
>> learning Powerpoint, and it has instructions for both Powerpoint 2003 and
>> Powerpoint 2007, although the commands for 2007 will probably work with
>> Powerpoint 2010 as well, as both are similar. I hope this helps.
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:00 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Freedom scientific has a powerpoint tutorial you can take; it costs 30
>> bucks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Juanita
>> Herrera
>> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:33 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I am currently taking a public speaking class where I will need to use a
>> PowerPoint as a visual aid. Previously when I had to use PowerPoints in
>> high
>> school, I would have somebody help me, but now I don't have that help. Is
>> it
>> possible for a blind person to put together a PowerPoint? If so, how does
>> one go about doing this? I know nothing about power points whatsoever.
>> Juanita
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
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m
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <000f01cecb9b$9c2ae7b0$d480b710$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:53:55 -0400
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <9EB9D0EB5A76420EA86E6D773DD9D7BD at MistyBradleyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <001d01cecb9d$06cf0e60$146d2b20$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
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> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:24:05 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr.
> Jernigan
> Message-ID: <auto-000128343859 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Some of you might find this to be interesting.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>To: reiff lund <dandrews at visi.com>, reiff lund <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Met a person in Las Vegas who worked for Dr. Jernigan
>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:10:23 -0400
>>
>>David:
>>
>>We found this very interesting on our trip.
>>
>>Would you please pass around.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>As you all may have read during the last few months, is that the NFB
>>Travel & Tourism Division, a proud division of the National
>>Federation of the Blind. Is that we had our very 1st Fundraiser
>>Trip, which was a complete success and learning experience for all
>>involved including to the people we met along the way of our trip to
>>Las Vegas and Utah, and yes the parks were opened. The state of Utah
>>opened its National Parks while we were there, even though the
>>country was on shutdown.
>>
>>A few stories and descriptions of our experiences will be posting
>>for meet the blind month, and I am also hoping in the braille
>>monitor, but it will definitely be on the
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org website.
>>
>>Below is one of the experiences that Deana and John Bates members of
>>the NFB of Orange County, CA, had at the Riviera Hotel where we
>>stayed the first night and the last night of our trip, about meeting
>>a man who works at the Riviera Hotel, who worked for Dr. Jernigan in
>>the 1960's at the Iowa Commission. Please read the story below.
>>
>>
>>
>>John and I wanted to tell you about a very unusual experience we had
>>at the Riviera on Monday the day we left to come home. We ordered
>>room service from Wicked Vicky's. The guy who brought our food was
>>78 years old and his name is Eugene Plaid. Not sure if that name
>>means anything to Ramona or not, but he worked for Dr Jernigan at
>>the Iowa Commission in the 1960's teaching cane travel. He told us
>>he came to Las Vegas to work with blind persons and had walked all
>>over Las Vegas under sleep shades before he started teaching his
>>students. He said he worked for the Riviera for 43 years his wife
>>was a medical Transcriptionist and they put five kids through
>>college. Apparently he worked two jobs one teaching cane travel as
>>well as working at the Riviera. We loved meeting him and talking
>>about his experiences. He has been to our National Conventions. It
>>just seemed so odd to us that someone who would deliver our food
>>worked at the Iowa Commission with Dr Jernigan.
>>
>>Also John and I had a big laugh about Wicked Vicky what an
>>appropriate name rofl
>>Deanna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheryl Echevarria, President
>>NFB Travel & Tourism Division
>>National Federation of the Blind
>>631-236-5138
>><http://www.nfbtravel.org>www.nfbtravel.org
>><mailto:info at nfbtravel.org>info at nfbtravel.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:29:05 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
> Message-ID: <52609cf5.886fec0a.310d.ffffcda6 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Justin, there's also a list called Accessible-IOS that only deals
> with I devices. I don't know the subscription address, but I've
> found it very useful.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 20:57:31 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Thank you; much appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Misty Dawn
> Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Hi,
> There is a list called the IDevices list. You can subscribe at:
> IDevices-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> The website is:
> http://www.gatewayfortheblind.com
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone
>
> Is there a good Iphone list serve?
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
> %40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>
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> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:36:26 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> stillbeing compassionate
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJB7sjUZhsd0QvouKHus3=Vo7huC6nnYG0+XDF038yCXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Kaiti,
>
> Self-affirmation happens to be one of my research areas, so I'd like
> to offer a few suggestions that your friend might find helpful.
> Basically, the research has shown that writing about your important
> values can be a helpful thing for people experiencing many kinds of
> challenges and life transitions. In your friend's case, she may be
> worried that losing vision will cause her to have to give up things
> she enjoys doing or sources of meaning in her life. It might be good
> for her to write or at least think about what her important values are
> and the kinds of things in her life that will remain intact whether
> she loses vision or not; for example, her friendships and family
> relationships, her political values, her sense of humor, music if she
> enjoys that, etc. Writing about religious values might also help
> although as you mentioned it sounds like her religious beliefs may be
> contributing to the negativity about blindness. Research suggests that
> it is better to self-affirm by thinking about alternate sources of
> meaning than it is to try to affirm the thing that's the problem, so
> writing about her sight loss might not be such a good idea. Though
> there has been less research on this, it is logical that doing things
> to uphold your values is also self-affirming. So encourage her to keep
> pursuing hobbies and relationships, church involvement, etc. that
> aren't affected by her health or vision issues. Over time this should
> help her to see the vision problem as just one of many things going on
> in her life.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 10/17/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>>
>> Your suggestion sounds interesting, but could you elaborate?
>>
>> So far I'm reading it as try to get her to realize she still has
>> vision (correct me if I'm not understanding propperly). I think this
>> could potentially be good, but also could have negative effects. I
>> don't want to make her think I'm belittling her diagnosis by stressing
>> that she hasn't lost much. (she's lost some peripheral vision, but
>> not enough to even keep her from driving). But, she sees this as a
>> major issue at least right now, so I'm worried that if I put emphasis
>> on the fact that she still has the majority of her vision that she'll
>> 1, lash out and take me as not being supportive, and 2, really get
>> confused on how to feel about things, more than she already seems to
>> be. She's not very open to talking about how she feels about it now,
>> other than saying it sucks. Emphasis is still being placed on the
>> vision issue rather than the other neurological symptoms.
>>
>> But, I think after the initial shock and/or self-pitty has worn off,
>> this could be something that really works along witth showing her that
>> blindness isn't really crippling or something to be pittied. We'll
>> have to see what happens.
>>
>> Thanks for your suggestion, and if you could clarify, if I'm reading
>> it wrong, I would appreciate it.
>>
>> On 10/16/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> See if you can get her to write positive affirmations which will affirm
>>> her
>>> in having sight. Try to get her to focus on those and read them
>>> everyday.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:23 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>> stillbeing compassionate
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The religious differences may be playing a role in my feelings of
>>> awkwardness too. Like her family members, my friend said in a sense
>>> that
>>> her vision was being attacked by the devel. I found this to be really
>>> interesting because it demonstrated a couple of things; although she
>>> knows
>>> this is all a brain issue rather than an eye issue, and she has other
>>> neurological symptoms including really bad headaches, she is focusing on
>>> the
>>> vision thing rather than the brain, which is actually the part of her
>>> body
>>> receiving the treatment. It also showed me how different religions
>>> impact
>>> perceptions of disabilities. I am Christian as well, but I do not think
>>> disabilities are influenced by religious things like that. Perhaps I am
>>> a
>>> little more scientific, but I see them as being genetic, accidental, or
>>> medically acquired such as through a virus or infection. She's deeply
>>> rooted in her faith though, and the belief that all good events are
>>> blessings and all bad ones are attacks is a part of that sect of
>>> Christianity. So, religion is playing a pretty big role too, and I
>>> failed
>>> to recognize that until yesterday. I'm learning that this is far more
>>> complicated for her than I even imagined, which really substantiates
>>> what
>>> Arielle said about it being very different from the experience of
>>> someone
>>> who has always had limitted vision in some capacity or another, and
>>> knows
>>> that they are either blind or will probably be blind in the future.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, because if I failed
>>> to
>>> consider the importance of religion in this I'm wondering what else I
>>> may
>>> be
>>> missing. Any thoughts on that? I want to be a little more aware of
>>> this
>>> issue not just for my friend, but also for other people should I come
>>> across
>>> this situation in the future.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me like your friend is working her way through the normal
>>>> grieving process that would occur for any type of loss in life. For
>>>> those who are not born blind, losing one's eyesight is definitely a
>>>> loss that needs to be grieved during the process of coming to terms
>>>> with blindness. I
>>>>
>>>> see this as no different as coming to terms with any other medical
>>>> condition
>>>>
>>>> that would significantly alter someone's life.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are being a good friend by simply trying to be there for
>>>> her.
>>>> Although, you may want to try to talk about her feelings regarding
>>>> this situation if she is willing to discuss them with you. Perhaps you
>>>> could reassure her that having these feelings are normal for what she
>>>> is going through in her life right now. This suggestion comes from
>>>> what I wish other
>>>>
>>>> people could have given to me when I was first told that I had an eye
>>>> condition that would most likely cause me to become blind someday in
>>>> the distant future.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
>>>> stillbeing
>>>>
>>>> compassionate
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation. A very close friend
>>>>> of mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>> untreated, could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore
>>>>> blindness. I'm trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because
>>>>> what she's going through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any
>>>>> means, but she doesn't even have the test results or know of a
>>>>> treatment plan and she's already thinking about the what ifs
>>>>> associated
>>> with going blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>> drastically changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could
>>>>> do so in a way that would further limit the sight I have/make me
>>>>> totally blind at any time if the right thing were to go wrong having
>>>>> been drilled into me since childhood. I would imagine that
>>>>> discomfort/annoyance would be at least ten-fold for a person who has
>>>>> spent nearly two decades as a sighted person, with little to no
>>>>> contact with a blind person until they met me in college. Yet, I
>>>>> feel somewhat awkward because I know that blindness is not the worst
>>>>> thing that could happen to a person by far, and that I've shown her
>>>>> by example that one does not need sight to do well in school, to cook
>>>>> and clean around an apartment, to have a job, or to be successful in
>>>>> general. I realize that seeing someone else do things differently
>>>>> and imagining yourself have to do them a different way is terrifying
>>>>> too, if I had to suddenly switch to using a foreign language or sign
>>>>> language to speak I'd definitely be freaking about the ramifications
>>>>> of being out of the loop, and perhaps that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while still
>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>> done---just differently. I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>> that others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves. I'm trying to
>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in chunks,
>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>> to a person, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>> even have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than
>>>>> done but I thought it was the best I could do. I've also reminded
>>>>> her that even if she does have this condition there are treatment
>>>>> plans which could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive
>>>>> the diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight. I do not
>>>>> know what else I could do at this point but remind her of those
>>>>> things, since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she
>>>>> thinks through it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life. If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what specific
>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most? What, if anything,
>>>>> did others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you? What would you
>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend? Did contact with other blind people
>>>>> help you durring that time? (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>> everything else I do). Any thoughts?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai
l.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:07:23 -0500
> From: Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness is scary-how to teach otherwise while
> still being compassionate
> Message-ID: <243DD75C-618A-4191-834A-AA642A1CC421 at samobile.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Katie,
>
> I think that we as blind people sometimes get in the mode of educating
> rather than dialoguing. We try to educate people like your friend by
> saying that blindness only requires a few adjustments and so on. By the
> end of our education efforts, we wonder if we have been helpful and
> supportive at all. Meanwhile, we are stuck with this rather uncomfortable
> dialectic between wanting to be supportive versus not wanting to be
> labeled as pitiful or helpless like your psychologist friend describes.
> Dialogue might be an interesting way to resolve some of these issues.
> Since dialogue implies two sides of an issue, you may want to consider
> telling your friend what it's like to experience her worries about
> something that you consider absolutely normal. At the very least, this
> approach raises your Friends consciousness about how you are dealing with
> her situation from the outside. At best, talking about blindness as a sort
> of normal might help alleviate some of her fears on a visceral level. If
> you think about it, that is ultimately was sighted people are worried
> about. Can I lead a normal life? Also, describing your blindness journey
> may help her realize that attitudes and misperceptions about blindness are
> typically the culprit behind negative feelings on the subject. Meanwhile,
> your story may also demonstrate your ability to empathize even if you
> can't no exactly what she's going through. Maybe that will be enough. I
> tried this approach with a friend once. He was extremely negative about
> going blind almost all of the time to the extent that I actually needed to
> spend some time away from him for a while. When I came back, I explained
> why I felt so frustrated. He kept talking about blind people and blindness
> in such a negative way that it was difficult to psychologically separate
> his feelings about his own blindness from the negativity that I found
> myself absorbing. To my surprise, it actually worked! Yes, he continued to
> talk about his experience going blind. But, he did so realizing that The
> experience of being blind is a valid one. From then on, he was considerate
> enough to recognize that blindness is my normal and discussed his feelings
> from his perspective rather than using absolute statements about blindness
> and blind people. Does any of this make sense? For my part, I found that I
> was able to empathize to a greater degree because my own issues and
> dealing with his blindness had been dealt with properly. Up until that
> point, they were simmering quietly in the back of my mind making it
> difficult for me to really hear where he was coming from.
>
> "The honor of one is the honor of all. " -Swil Kanim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> These ideas are very interesting, and I really appreciate the feedback.
>>
>> As Sandra identified, it was kind of shocking for me too-even though I
>> didn't think of it in that way till after I read her email and thought
>> about it. No one likes to hear their friend has any significant
>> health issue, but the fact that blindness is involved really stands
>> out to me. I think Arielle and Julie were spot on; I tried to
>> empathize but now I'm not totally sure I can really. I mean, I did
>> have a really bad fear of blindness/going totally blind when I was
>> about 12 or 13, but I think that was because as a child I didn't quite
>> understand my circumstances. I think that understanding that a risk
>> of losing vision did not mean I would lose vision, and even if I did I
>> could continue what I usually do with some more modifications. Once I
>> began hanging out with other blind people my age and met positive role
>> models, I was able to adjust and know that if I were to go blind the
>> next day I would have the skills and knowledge to help me continue
>> with life, even though I would have to make some adjustments.
>>
>> I was thinking of comparing vision loss to other senses and what I
>> would feel like if I lost functioning of a limb or something. Having
>> not learned adaptive techniques as a child, I can see how a sighted
>> person would have no clue how to pick up and move on after going
>> blind. Even simple questions like, "How will I feed myself?" can seem
>> like mountains rather than molehills to them. Things like cooking,
>> sorting laundry, and traveling around a college campus could seem even
>> more difficult or frustrating.
>>
>> I talked to a psychologist I know about it today, and he brought up
>> some very good points that I as a person with a congenital condition
>> did not think of, even though I sort of went through it as a teenager.
>> He said that the unfair position people with disabilities are placed
>> in is that their lives are seen as tragic, and their disability is
>> something to be mourned. Obviously those with disabilities know they
>> can lead productive lies in spite of the stereotypes, but a person who
>> acquires a disability has a much harder time adjusting because they
>> have grown up seeing people with disabilities as those who should be
>> pittied. Even if they meet a few people with disabilities who are
>> really independent, they might not change their stereotypical view.
>> E.G, my friend/roommate describes me as "High functioning" because I
>> am the first blind person she's met, and although she does not have a
>> blind person who is less independent to really compare me to or bass
>> that assumption off of, she perceives me that way because of the
>> stereotypical, helpless/bumbling blind person. Really, I just use
>> alternative techniques to do the same things she and my other roommate
>> do. I also told him about a comment she made that bothered me a bit;
>> she was saying how happy she was that she probably wouldn't go blind,
>> and there was a comment from a family member of her's on facebook that
>> said something like, "The devel will not win this," so I was kind of
>> taken aback. He said he could see how that, as her friend, I might
>> think "Does that make a statement of what she thinks of me/my life?,"
>> but the reality of it is that things are just going to seem a lot
>> scarrier to her, and even more so to her family members who have not
>> met me or another blind person because they just don't know. I know
>> she doesn't mean to come across that way, but she did not grow up with
>> the same perceptions of people with disabilities as I or any of us on
>> this list did. So, it does seem weird to me that I am called
>> "High-functioning" rather than independent, or that I would see a
>> comment that condemns blindness so strongly, but that is because I had
>> a supportive family, the NFB, and friends who were either interested
>> in things like braille and my technology or didn't say anything about
>> my blindness at all. I mentioned that I felt bad for being caught off
>> guard by these things, but the guy I spoke to said that as someone who
>> has lived their life in a given way, hearing that your life is bad
>> when you don't feel it is can naturally be a little perturbing.
>> Changing perceptions of people with disabilities is what consumer
>> organizations like the NFB are trying to do, and I've done that at
>> least a little by showing her by example that blindness does not
>> indefinitely mean helplessness or dependence.
>>
>> Someone off-list suggested I should see about taking her to an NFB
>> function. I am not going to try this avenue for a while, as right now
>> she is not ready for that kind of thing, and even afterwards I don't
>> know if going to a meeting full of blind people would make her feel
>> awkward. She knows I go to chapter meetings, so if the time and
>> conditions are right, and she wants to go some time in the future,
>> then taking her with me to a chapter meeting might be good. I have a
>> feeling that it will be a pretty good period of time before I can even
>> bring that subject up to her, and even then I'll just have to play it
>> by ear and see what she wants to do and how the treatment is going.
>>
>> The good news is that this is treatable. (She found out she does have
>> it but she's already on a treatment plan), so hopefully no further
>> damage will occur. And if it does then my other roommate and I will
>> be there for her. On the plus, she took an interest in braille last
>> night which she has never done before, so we were able to geek out
>> over it for a while and she seemed to like it.
>>
>> P.S: Julie, I have heard of that documentary. Rest assured I will
>> not let her get ahold of it. :)
>>
>>> On 10/15/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, I've had low vision my whole life but it's progressively getting
>>> worse, so I can relate a little bit. I honestly don't think there is
>>> much
>>> that can be said to "cheer her up". I am well aware of the countless
>>> abilities of blind people. But, I still sit up crying sometimes at the
>>> thought that I could be blind one day.
>>>
>>> My advice would be to support her and realize blindness is a hard thing
>>> to
>>> wrap your head around, and if you are religious, pray for her.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> (336) 988-6375
>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:44 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>
>>>> This is very interesting. I have been thinking about this lately due
>>>> to a film that was shown here last week on this very topic. I don't
>>>> know how many of you have seen the film Going Blind, a documentary
>>>> about how people deal with losing their sight, but I would not
>>>> recommend it for someone who might be losing vision. I won't go into
>>>> all the details(I could fill pages with my opinions on the film), but
>>>> it got me thinking about the level of panic sighted people must
>>>> experience when they are losing their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we know that they can do just about anything they've done before
>>>> losing their sight, but sight is a part of them, a strong part of
>>>> them. Many of us who have grown up not seeing or with limited vision
>>>> are used to being unable to see pictures, facial expressions, and
>>>> films--and let's not even talk about driving. Imagine losing your
>>>> hearing or your sense of touch in your fingers. On a smaller scale,
>>>> think about what would happen if you broke your hand or wrist.
>>>> Reading braille, writing, and using a cane/dog would be extremely
>>>> difficult for a long period of time. Many of us rely on our hearing
>>>> for navigation and getting information. Losing that would be
>>>> devastating to us, even though we know we could manage. Knowing
>>>> something mentally and truly understanding it are two different
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very interested to hear from someone who lost their sight
>>>> later in life but then embraced NFB philosophy. How would this change
>>>> the grieving process? How can we(those of us who have always been
>>>> blind) better understand what it's like to lose sight as an adult?
>>>>
>>>> Kaiti, I think the best thing you can do is be there for her and
>>>> answer any questions she may have. I could be wrong about this, but I
>>>> think it's difficult for those of us who have lived with blindness all
>>>> our lives to understand and empathize with those who are full of fear
>>>> at the prospect of losing their vision. After all, we've lived very
>>>> productive lives without vision. But I think that these two
>>>> experiences represent two sides of the same coin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Kaiti and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is an excellent question and an issue we all deal with as
>>>>> NFB members. We often meet folks who are losing vision and try to
>>>>> offer them support and resources. Sometimes it can be hard for us who
>>>>> are used to blindness to understand what they are experiencing. I know
>>>>> that I have offered information and resources to people who contact me
>>>>> about their moms or dads losing sight, and they tell me that their
>>>>> parent does not want the information because he/she is too depressed
>>>>> or scared to deal with it yet. This is a little hard for me to
>>>>> empathize with, as someone who has been totally blind my whole life.
>>>>> Usually what I try to do is work with the person and answer whatever
>>>>> questions they ask me, but don't preach to them or tell them about
>>>>> things unless they want to know. For example, sometimes I come across
>>>>> folks who don't want to use canes but are losing vision and would
>>>>> clearly benefit from using a cane. I don't nag them about using a cane
>>>>> unless they specifically say that they are having trouble getting
>>>>> around or identifying their blindness to others, at which point I
>>>>> casually suggest that a cane might help with those difficulties they
>>>>> are having. I want to give them information and feedback but also
>>>>> respect their choices and their feelings about the situation.
>>>>> I would suggest that you can just be a supportive friend and listen to
>>>>> her concerns and emotional expressions. If she asks you how you do
>>>>> things, you can share techniques with her and point her to other blind
>>>>> role models, but that may not be something she is interested in yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>>> It sounds as though you're having a tough time emotionally yourself.
>>>>>> Your friend won't be thinking rationally at this stage because of her
>>>>>> fear of the unknown ahead of her. It doesn't matter that the chances
>>>>>> of her losing her sight are remote, the fact is, there's still a
>>>>>> chance and she's trying to prepare herself mentally for that. The
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> thing you can do is be there for her, listen to her worries and fears
>>>>>> and try and comfort her. In short, what you're already doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would do you no harm to clear your mind of all this sometimes,
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> a mental break from it.
>>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am confronted with an interesting situation. A very close friend
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> mine may/may not have a neurological proglem which, if left
>>>>>>> untreated,
>>>>>>> could cause damage to the optic nerve and therefore blindness. I'm
>>>>>>> trying to be a good friend and be supportive, because what she's
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> through is definitely not comfortable or easy by any means, but she
>>>>>>> doesn't even have the test results or know of a treatment plan and
>>>>>>> she's already thinking about the what ifs associated with going
>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's really difficult, because I realize that it is scary to think
>>>>>>> about; I probably would not be a happy camper if my vision
>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>> changed, and that's even with the knowledge that it could do so in a
>>>>>>> way that would further limit the sight I have/make me totally blind
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> any time if the right thing were to go wrong having been drilled
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> me since childhood. I would imagine that discomfort/annoyance would
>>>>>>> be at least ten-fold for a person who has spent nearly two decades
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a sighted person, with little to no contact with a blind person
>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>> they met me in college. Yet, I feel somewhat awkward because I know
>>>>>>> that blindness is not the worst thing that could happen to a person
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> far, and that I've shown her by example that one does not need sight
>>>>>>> to do well in school, to cook and clean around an apartment, to have
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job, or to be successful in general. I realize that seeing someone
>>>>>>> else do things differently and imagining yourself have to do them a
>>>>>>> different way is terrifying too, if I had to suddenly switch to
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> a foreign language or sign language to speak I'd definitely be
>>>>>>> freaking about the ramifications of being out of the loop, and
>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>> that is what this is like a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just trying to think of ways that I can be supportive while
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> showing her that even if the worst does happen, things can be
>>>>>>> done---just differently. I feel like that is one of the best ways I
>>>>>>> can be supportive, because I have the knowledge about the subject
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> others around her do not, and since blindness has such a bad
>>>>>>> connotation, it is possible that those who don't know much about it
>>>>>>> are not helping the situation by panicking themselves. I'm trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be empathetic as well, because although I have lost vision in
>>>>>>> chunks,
>>>>>>> I am probably the only person she knows who has experienced any form
>>>>>>> of vision loss, and there was a time in my younger teen years when I
>>>>>>> was terrified of losing all of my vision in which I had to put
>>>>>>> blindness into perspective and realize that much worse could happen
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a person, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far I've been telling her to not freak about it is she doesn't
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> have test results yet, which I realize is much easier said than done
>>>>>>> but I thought it was the best I could do. I've also reminded her
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> even if she does have this condition there are treatment plans which
>>>>>>> could prevent vision loss, so even if she were to receive the
>>>>>>> diagnosis it is not a death sentence for her sight. I do not know
>>>>>>> what else I could do at this point but remind her of those things,
>>>>>>> since the rationalization seems to help for a while once she thinks
>>>>>>> through it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would love to hear from people who have had similar experiences
>>>>>>> and/or lost sight later in life. If you are the latter and you knew
>>>>>>> there was a possibility of blindness before it happened what
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> aspects about blindness bothered you the most? What, if anything,
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> others do that made you feel a little better about the situation?
>>>>>>> What do you wish others would have done to help you? What would you
>>>>>>> suggest I do to help my friend? Did contact with other blind people
>>>>>>> help you durring that time? (The thing I'm worried about is her
>>>>>>> saying, "Well you can't empathize because you don't know what it's
>>>>>>> like," because in terms of having the sudden shock I do not, but
>>>>>>> everything else I do). Any thoughts?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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