[nabs-l] Students with guide dogs

Suzanne Germano sgermano at asu.edu
Tue Sep 3 05:07:21 UTC 2013 

I just always thought you had to go to a school like Seeing Eye or Guide
dogs for the Blind and I just assumed there was similar programs for other
types of service dogs.


On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Ashley Bramlett
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Suzanne,
> I see you're not going to win the argument with Joe.
> I see where you're coming from, but if the law says they cannot ask
> intrusive questions, then the school shouldn't.
>
> As for training, you are oversimplifying. The dog has to meet some
> requirements and I think trainers from the guide dog school come to your
> home to provide some of this training.
> You cannot simply give a dog some training and call it a service dog.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 12:52 AM
> To: tyler at tysdomain.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Students with guide dogs
>
> I did not know anyone can just train their own dog and call it a service
> dog.
>
> So I can train my dog to stop at curbs and other things that my dog from
> Guide Dog for the Blind dog did and I can then have him legally be a
> service dog?
>
> Never knew this.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 7:04 PM, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com
> >wrote:
>
>  You keep pushing this verification of service dogs like it's a solution to
>> the fake service dogs issue. It might be one solution or maybe a partial
>> solution, but what do you propose for owner-trained dogs? Those dogs, who
>> by your account of what should be allowed and what shouldn't wouldn't be
>> "properly trained" and certified?
>> On 9/2/2013 10:00 PM, Suzanne Germano wrote:
>>
>>  What does well behaved dogs have to do with properly certified service
>>> animals. I should not be able to take my German Shepherd into a store
>>> just
>>> because he is well behaved and I am blind if he is not trained to be a
>>> guide dog. I would love to bring my dogs everywhere but they are not
>>> trained as guide dogs. I believe that service dogs should have to be
>>> properly trained and certified by an agency otherwise everyone will just
>>> bring pets into stores and claim they are service dogs.
>>>
>>> I have seen several dogs in stores recently with nothing on them
>>> indicating
>>> they are service animals but becausee they are small no one says
>>> anything.
>>> I bet if I brought my shepherd into costco someone would say something
>>> about it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi all,
>>>
>>>>
>>>> First of all, though the issue of fake service dogs complicates
>>>> things, it is not helpful to treat the guide dog school ID as an
>>>> access card that will prove the legitimacy of our dogs.  I know plenty
>>>> of owner trainers who have very well-behaved dogs.  They would not be
>>>> able to prove that they got their guides from a school.  So then, what
>>>> would happen?  They would be kicked out of establishments or forced to
>>>> make their own IDs.  What would this accomplish?
>>>>
>>>> As for showing documentation to housing, dorms and other on campus
>>>> housing are covered under the FHA(fair Housing Act).  Under FHA, it is
>>>> illegal for a housing association of any kind to ask for health
>>>> records on service dogs.  We could debate all day about whether or not
>>>> this is a good idea.  Frankly, I can see both sides of it, at least
>>>> for dorms.  But it doesn't matter because it is actually illegal.  So
>>>> are pet deposits, size requirements, and of course, refusal of the
>>>> service dog for any reason.  This covers public housing accomidations
>>>> and depends on numbers.  Anyone renting a certain number of rooms,
>>>> apartment complexes, and dorms are covered.
>>>>
>>>> I would also point out that it is the handeler's choice where to take
>>>> a guide dog.  Noone can or should decide that for anyone else.  I, for
>>>> example, will always take my current dog to convention, but I
>>>> understand and respect those who choose not to do this.  It is also
>>>> not up to anyone but the handeler to decide when to use the dog.  We
>>>> guide dog users get a lot of opinions from others about when, how, and
>>>> what to do with our dogs.  Yes, some of them are well-meaning, but
>>>> much of the time they are uncalled for.
>>>>
>>>> I do agree that some guide dog users make a bad name for the rest of
>>>> us.  But at the same time, every guide dog user makes a mistake.  I
>>>> have had moments where I dropped the leash for a second, and my dog
>>>> ran after another dog.  I got yelled at and deserved it.  We are only
>>>> human and make mistakes and get distracted.  Remember that the next
>>>> time you see a dog relieve itself in the hotel at convention.  My dog
>>>> has never done this, but she has done other embarrassing things at
>>>> convention.
>>>>
>>>> I think we need to give each other a little grace here.  It's time for
>>>> the cane users to support the dog users and their rights to take
>>>> charge over their own dogs.  (This goes for other dog users too.)  And
>>>> it's also time for the dog users to stop worrying about the dog verses
>>>> cane debate and use their dogs and canes when and how they want.  Yes,
>>>> dog users still have to use canes some of the time.
>>>>
>>>> My last point I would like to make is that it is within the law for
>>>> the owner of an establishment to refuse access to a dog who is dirty
>>>> or otherwise disruptive to business. This is what a lot of people tend
>>>> to forgot about the ADA.  So if a dog is not groomed and is not clean,
>>>> the handeler will have other problems besides bothering people with
>>>> allergies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/1/13, Robin <robin-melvin at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I presume it is a health question because as I
>>>>> recall the initial EMAIL post to this list was
>>>>> wondering whether or not it is permissible under
>>>>> the ADA guidelines for a college or university to
>>>>> request  vaccination records of a service/guide dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> I presume it is NOT an ADA guideline issue. I
>>>>> don't SEE the difference between requesting a
>>>>> service/guide dog's vaccination records or a
>>>>> students immunization records  especially with
>>>>> all of the concern of contageous diseases  such
>>>>> as the flu. They are, in my humble opinion, just
>>>>> trying to be proactive to protect the
>>>>> staff/student population, who regularly
>>>>> attend/visit their campus of learning, and that
>>>>> is what, in my EYES makes it a health concern/issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent From Robin M.
>>>>>
>>>>> At 12:46 PM 8/31/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  BS"D I only want to point out some things. It is
>>>>>> not the dog's coat which gives the allergic
>>>>>> reaction, it is the dog's saliva. The saliva
>>>>>> consists of allergen which make some people
>>>>>> sick. Actually, every dog owner carry allergen
>>>>>> and therefore the dog is not the only problem
>>>>>> for people with dog allergies. A dog who is well
>>>>>> cared of, bathed and gromed do not cause more
>>>>>> problems for a person with dog allergies then a
>>>>>> dog owner in general does. Many persons with dog
>>>>>> allergies can take medecins but for few people
>>>>>> this do not work, for them it would be a problem
>>>>>> to only meet a dog owner. I do not hope none
>>>>>> take this personally but I only want to clear up
>>>>>> things. I live in a country where the Allergic
>>>>>> lobby has a very strong voice which makes it
>>>>>> hard to live with a guide dog here. We get
>>>>>> refused to enter shops, restaurants and
>>>>>> universities because 'a person can get an
>>>>>> allergic attack'. Okay, therefore this subject
>>>>>> is close to my heart. I understand that it can
>>>>>> be a problem for people with allergies but it is
>>>>>> not my problem, my dog is well taken care of and
>>>>>> she will not be upin  people faces. I really
>>>>>> feel for Joshua and others, it must be difficult
>>>>>> but I wish it would be more respectful
>>>>>> especially in my own country where it sounds
>>>>>> lile my dog would kill people with dog allergies
>>>>>> which is not true. Kind regards, Mlle.
>>>>>> Leye-Shprintse íberg Courriel :
>>>>>> leyeshprintse at ymail.com Journal :
>>>>>> http://leyeshprintse.blogspot.****com<http://leyeshprintse.**
>>>>>> blogspot.com <http://leyeshprintse.blogspot.com>>Envoyé de mon
>>>>>> iPad Mini
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Take care,
>> Ty
>> http://tds-solutions.net
>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>> that dares not reason is a slave.
>>
>>
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