[nabs-l] How can NFB better include people withmultipledisabilities?

[melissa R Green]

Arielle once again.  You are so right!  I also hope that will never happen 
again.
Another way to look at this is, many devisions get started and then they 
just fall by the waist side.  Noone will keep it going.  IMO the devisions 
are started by people that have to be in the spotlight and be the darling of 
the Federation and the devision suffers.  The same happens with chapters and 
state devisions.  Then everyone is shaking their head and wondering what 
happened and why this person didn't work out.  I could give examples of 
backing the wrong person.
Finally, I always felt badly for those children who were born and grew up in 
the federation.  They have a lot of pressure on them to be the darling of 
the federation.  Have a blessed day.
Best Wishes
Melissa R. Green and Pj

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include people 
withmultipledisabilities?


I too was at the NFB convention when the LGBT group wasn't able to
announce its meetings. I'm disappointed this happened, especially the
symbolic exclusion it represented, and hope never to see something
like that again as long as I am part of the Federation. I completely
understand the leadership's desire not to have a division for every
special interest. However, we need clearer and more evenhanded
criteria about what should constitute a division. It doesn't make
sense to allow a division for car enthusiasts with its own annual
activities and then not even allow an LGBT group to advertise informal
meet-ups. We can't try to say we don't want LGBT because it's too
politically controversial and then have religious invocations at all
the general sessions. Has the general membership ever even been polled
about whether to keep having these religious invocations? In other
words, unless we want to be in an organization that reflects the
president's or the board's interests and political views alone, we
really need to have some transparency about how divisions are formed
and what kinds of characteristics are meaningful enough to justify
forming a division. Furthermore, as Darian pointed out, a well-run
group can probably be just as effective without a lot of the hassle
associated with keeping up a division. I know at least some of the
folks in the LGBT group would have been totally happy with just a
group, not a full division, but even that wasn't supported.

Arielle

On 4/1/14, melissa R Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:
> what a good topic.  I know that there is a blind rollers list.  But the
> devision never came into being.  I think that the committee of the under
> served is supposed to address these issues.  However this is not 
> occurring.
>
> I agree that nfb has a primary focus of blindness.  Yet, we are a diverse
> population.  So I believe that the nfb needs to become more diverse.  I 
> also
>
> believe that the leadership are going by their assumptions that if they 
> have
>
> a devision dedicated to a certain grou that it will not do anything to
> assist blind people.  For example, years ago, a group came together and
> wanted to form a devision for blind gay bisexual and transgendered people.
> I was at the convention when doctor Maurer was reading the announcement 
> and
>
> then he ripped it up in the middle of reading it.  Many people left the
> federation because they felt that they were not wanted and that the
> leadership assumed that it would be a devision strictly for social 
> purposes.
>
> Many people are hopeful that the new president will bring many more 
> changes
>
> and lots of diversity to the federation.  I am going to wait and see what
> happens.
> Have a blessed day.
> Best Wishes
> Melissa R. Green and Pj
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 3:53 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include people with
> multipledisabilities?
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to start a separate thread to address an important issue
> that's come up recently. It's clear that more and more blind folks
> today also have other disabilities. For several reasons, the number of
> blind people with additional disabilities is likely to increase, and
> more than that, the number of blind people with additional
> disabilities who are getting educated and involved in advocacy is
> likely to increase. I do think that, for the most part, the NFB
> centers do a good job of tailoring training to the needs that people
> with other disabilities may have, but I also think that we as an
> organization have far to go in order to truly appreciate the
> contributions of all blind people. I think it's particularly true when
> we think about including people with intellectual disabilities and
> mental illnesses. These kinds of conditions are stigmatized in
> general, but especially since our leadership has tended to be highly
> educated and to stress academic excellence and consistent effort from
> the leadership, I can see how folks who have intellectual
> disabilities, mental illnesses or chronic health conditions can feel
> left out. I've known some blind folks who had trouble holding down
> leadership positions in the NFB due to the ups and downs of mental
> illnesses, for example, but who are still incredibly creative and
> passionate people with a lot of good ideas that are getting lost.
> Further, as several folks have pointed out, people with multiple
> disabilities can experience difficulties related to getting
> employment, education, etc. that the NFB hasn't really been able to
> help them with.
> I agree that NFB can't be expert about all disabilities, just
> blindness, but I think there is a definite place for more divisions
> and groups within the NFB that focus on other conditions. There is a
> deaf-blind division, but I have not heard many great things about its
> effectiveness. I have heard about efforts to possibly start a
> blind-rollers division, and it makes sense to me that blind wheelchair
> users might have unique concerns they'd want to discuss with each
> other. But to my knowledge such a division has not been formed. I
> would love to see a division for blind people with mental health
> conditions. This is a huge segment of our population, and there are
> probably unique concerns there. I am not sure if such divisions don't
> exist because the national leadership opposes them or if there just
> hasn't been enough interest or momentum to get them going. But I think
> having such divisions could help folks who have additional
> disabilities obtain leadership positions within the organization, and
> also to provide a vehicle for collective action and education about
> issues affecting these groups specifically, even if the NFB as a whole
> should just focus on blindness. I hope that makes sense. I would be
> interested in other suggestions from you about how members with
> multiple disabilities can feel more valued. While there is something
> to be said for going ahead and running for leadership positions in
> order to change things, change also needs to come from the
> organization as a whole if folks with multiple disabilities are going
> to be elected and welcomed in these positions.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 3/31/14, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>> Joe and others,
>>
>> It is not my position that anything said about the NFB that is negative
>> is
>> wrong.  Organizations are made up of
>> human beings and we are not perfect so our creations are not likely going
>>
>> to
>> be perfect.  Still, some of what one
>> person may seem as wrong  isn't so much a matter of right or wrong as
>> perspective and opinion.  We embarked a good
>> while back now on an expansion that has resulted in the need to raise
>> more
>> funds than we used to have to raise.  I
>> do not think I am alone among NFB supporters in recognizing that this is
>> a
>> risk.  When you look at our budget and
>> that of the ACB and then compare legislative successes as you did, Joe,
>> it
>> is certainly clear that legislative
>> successes are not
>> proportional to one's budget.  Whether I completely agree with
>> legislation
>> ACB passes or not, I recognize that the
>> ACB has made contributions.  However, I have felt for some time and I
>> feel
>> particularly more so now that our
>> problems can't be solved by legislation alone.  Let's take accessibility,
>> for example.  There is a lot of emphasis
>> on getting more legislation passed that will force software to be
>> accessible, for example.  I happen to believe
>> this is necessary, but it isn't going to make everything better for us,
>> particularly on the job, all by itself.
>> If we are going to make any serious gains, we need to understand the
>> limits
>> of current technology and explore ways
>> of getting information that is new.  I am not one who got all excited
>> about
>> being able to drive a car, although I
>> certainly hope that blind people can do that at some point.  However, I
>> got
>> very excited about the fact that as a
>> result of looking at the problem, we experimented with a number of ways
>> of
>> getting information that had not been
>> explored before.  A significant portion of our budget went into the KNFB
>> reader.  At the time, it was something
>> nobody was doing, and it was a moving experience when I held up a KNFB
>> reader to the lists of registered people at
>> a national convention that were just hanging from a crossbar and have it
>> start to read the content.  There have
>> probably been over a thousand kids who have attended science camps of one
>> kind or another through our efforts.  We
>> have been able to sponsor other gatherings as well for blind lawyers,
>> teachers, and major players in the
>> technology field.  We couldn't have done any of this in the 80's or 90's,
>> and much of this would not have been
>> done even now if we hadn't tried it.
>>
>> So what's my point, I'm not saying anything new, you know all this.  My
>> point is that a lot of this is about risks
>> and perspectives.  We won't know for a long time if some of these efforts
>> will make a difference.  Frankly, I am a
>> believer that one learns almost as much from what doesn't work as one
>> learns
>> from what does, because if you make a
>> mistake you can eliminate or refine that approach.  Will some of those
>> thousand kids get into math or science
>> because of what we did?  Is the OCR in the new HIMS product a little
>> better
>> because of what we did with the KNFB
>> reader?  Will we see a really good reader on the iPhone?  Might we ever
>> see
>> a reader that could use artificial
>> intelligence to interpret software on a computer screen instead of having
>>
>> to
>> educate every person who writes
>> software?  Will some of our efforts mean that there might be a way for us
>>
>> to
>> control the Google self-driving cars
>> because of some of the work we did on our own car?  I hope that at least
>> some of the answers are yes, but at this
>> point I can't really say.  What I do know is that the smaller dynamic
>> grass
>> roots organization that we were in the
>> 80's couldn't have had any affect on some of what I've listed above, nor
>> was
>> it the right time for that.  But it
>> also means that we change.  Not only do we change, but we make mistakes
>> as
>> we adjust to change.  Joe, what you see
>> as a downward spiral, I see as the challenges of change.  I'm not
>> satisfied
>> to say that it has to be that way,
>> though.  We can and must learn how to do better, as individuals and as an
>> organization.
>>
>> Joe, I think you are right that getting training at one of our centers
>> won't
>> miraculously make life better, and
>> the marketing does sometimes imply that.  However, you are wrong to draw
>> conclusions about such training based
>> upon the marketing.  Discussing and exploring the uncertainties and
>> challenges of seeking employment as a blind
>> person is a big part of what is addressed at BLIND Incorporated here in
>> Minnesota and I assume by our other
>> centers.  Some of the point of such training is to encourage the idea
>> that
>> you have to have a set of tools to
>> approach a given situation and not just one tool.  Still, we have to do
>> more
>> than run people through training.
>> This is true of any single aspectof our challenges, though.  Legislating
>> that software must be accessible and that
>> one cannot discriminate based upon a disability was and is still needed,
>> but
>> it won't matter much if we don't have
>> training.  Legislation and even training won't matter all that much if we
>> don't get a good basic education.
>> Requiring that school districts teach braille won't fix that problem if
>> there are no braille instructors in a
>> given area.  You can't pick any one thing out and say that it can lead to
>> success by itself, and you can't see any
>> given issue as completely standing on its own.
>>
>> I feel that we are in a better position as an organization to impact the
>> complex challenges we face with a larger
>> budget than we were.  However, it is more important than ever that we
>> understand where we are going and how our
>> philosophy fits in.  The question of what can we change to address the
>> challenges of the world and what do we need
>> the world to change is more important than ever, and I don't see anyone
>> asking questions like that outside of this
>> organization.  With our strengths and our failings, I think our
>> understanding of asking for help and looking for
>> our own solutions is what has set us apart in my mind, and while it is
>> risky, I think that branching out is a risk
>> worth taking to try to have a wider impact.  We need the help of all
>> members, though, to handle change.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:57:22 -0600, Jamie Principato wrote:
>>
>>>Arielle,
>>>That was a very thoughtful and politically sensitive response.
>>
>>>Joe,
>>>I am pleased to see I am not alone in making these observations furring
>>> my
>>> own relationship with the NFB. while I
>> deeply respect the organization's history and truly appreciate the raw
>> potential the organization has moving
>> forward, the passion I joined with back in high school has turned to
>> cautious cynicism. I don't think this
>> perspective is bad, though. I think the NFB desperately needs members who
>> can see past the smoke and mirrors of
>> PR, and who are willing to discuss issues of blindness and politics in a
>> no-nonsense way that isn't always easy to
>> hear. It is a shame though when those of us less willing to toe the line
>> and
>> pander to those with political power
>> are treated with hostility by some at the national level, and more still
>> within our local chapters.
>>
>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Mar 30, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have not been following the
>>>> Braille Monitor that closely but I can understand what you are saying
>>>> about the increased emphasis on fund-raising. I have also felt like
>>>> the national convention is turning into more of a carnival with all
>>>> the exhibitors and prizes being given away, and much of banquet that
>>>> used to focus on philosophy and NFB spirit is now taken up with prize
>>>> drawings and the like.
>>>> To be fair, NFB was stronger financially when we joined than it is
>>>> now, and I understand that some national programs have been cut due to
>>>> a decrease in revenue from what used to be steady reliable income
>>>> sources. So NFB may be pushing fund-raising more, but the alternative
>>>> could be a loss of programs and resources.
>>>> I have not heard of anyone being blatantly turned away or refused
>>>> membership in an NFB chapter. If that ever happens it is truly
>>>> shameful. I do think that sometimes prospective members choose not to
>>>> join because they perceive hostility from the organization or judgment
>>>> of their lifestyle choices. I think part of that is perception only,
>>>> and part of it is reality. The NFB is stereotyped as a radical
>>>> one-size-fits-all organization, and new members expecting to find that
>>>> could be especially sensitive to cues of hostility. However, there
>>>> probably is some real lack of acceptance among certain segments of the
>>>> organization, which, again, is unfortunate. I will say that I am not
>>>> the most graceful blind person and was relatively unskilled when I
>>>> first joined, and I still felt completely accepted. But I know not all
>>>> of us are so lucky. I would encourage prospective members who have a
>>>> negative experience to try again in a different chapter or division
>>>> and perhaps they will find acceptance there. But at the same time,
>>>> this is something we need to be sensitive to in the organization.
>>>>
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/30/14, Michael Capelle <michael.capelle at frontier.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello all.
>>>>> This is why I am not apart of any "blind movement."  I live my own
>>>>> life,
>>>>> live my own philosophy, ETC.  I do not believe in a one size fits all
>>>>> mentality, which is unfurtunately what the NFB does.
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: RJ Sandefur
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:51 AM
>>>>> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>>> mailing
>>>>> list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Success and Why I Left the NFB
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe, I agree with you. I had to attend both college, and Seminary
>>>>> without
>>>>> the NFB's help, although it would have been nice to have a mentoor. RJ
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:25 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Success and Why I Left the NFB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2006 was the last year I attended a national convention. While there
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> caught up in the ra ra of the movement and felt glad to be in the
>>>>>> company
>>>>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> so many people who could relate to the challenges that awaited me as
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> recent college graduate. I left convention, finished up my summer as
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> counselor in Iowa, and set off for DC to begin my business with the
>>>>>> real
>>>>>> world. I would never take away someone's enthusiasm from attending a
>>>>>> national convention or Washington Seminar or one of the weekend
>>>>>> leadership
>>>>>> seminars in Baltimore. They are very well-suited to boost a person's
>>>>>> spirit,
>>>>>> but I believe too many people fall through the cracks when faced with
>>>>>> reality outside of those infrequent gatherings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be fair, the organization is no different from any other nonprofit
>>>>>> business. It needs money to sustain itself, and in turn it needs more
>>>>>> members to help raise the money. Still, I found it rather
>>>>>> disappointing
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> so much of the board meeting I tuned into listen to last summer was
>>>>>> dominated by calls to raise money for this fund or that effort. I
>>>>>> found
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> even sadder that a recent issue of the Braille Monitor, our monthly
>>>>>> dose
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> inspiration, featured several articles just to the focus of
>>>>>> generating
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> ways to drum up more financial support, but perhaps the most
>>>>>> frustrating
>>>>>> byproduct of this new NFB are the e-mails from so-called friends from
>>>>>> whom
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> have not heard in years but boldly ask me to contribute to their NFB
>>>>>> fundraising campaigns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In short, at some point the NFB embraced enterprise and forgot about
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> movement. Between 2006 and 2012 I went on to help lead development
>>>>>> efforts
>>>>>> for other nonprofits outside of the blindness field, also national in
>>>>>> scope.
>>>>>> They too made fundraising a priority, but it never felt like the top,
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> only, priority. It gets tiresome when we focus on recruiting new
>>>>>> blood
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> raising new money and forget about strengthening the members and
>>>>>> resources
>>>>>> we've already had.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nowadays I have the privilege of knowing some excellent blind
>>>>>> professionals.
>>>>>> I think they would do well in the NFB. They are smarter than I ever
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> and have accomplished more than I may ever achieve, but they shun the
>>>>>> organization because they were turned away or because they were never
>>>>>> welcomed in the first place. It's something I should have kept in
>>>>>> mind
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> I had my brief taste of leadership in the organization. I had too
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> mouth on me to ever be anyone's golden child, but I was reliable
>>>>>> enough
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> get the job done. But, getting the job done should have really meant
>>>>>> attracting and pulling in these men and women who could have made the
>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>> lots better, listening to new ideas, and most important, remaining
>>>>>> true
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the cause and not some multi-million-dollar institute we find
>>>>>> ourselves
>>>>>> incapable of sustaining.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, what does any of this have to do with the original post? I don't
>>>>>> want
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> to ever be said I was a hypocrite. The leadership may as well know
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think of them, but more importantly, to the college kids on the verge
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> spreading their own wings, I want you to know the NFB banner will
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> guide
>>>>>> your way so far. Take what's great about the organization and leave
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> political drama and marketing ploys behind. In the end it will be
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> wits and talents that will earn your pay check. The NFB will never
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> anything new. The philosophy merely helps you uncover what you always
>>>>>> had
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be successful. Anything could happen with the new NFB president, and
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be the first to retract my words if he is brave enough to reverse
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> downward spiral. You see, we no longer live in a world where the NFB
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> necessary for collective momentum. Technology has seen to that.
>>>>>> Whether
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> not the movement sticks around largely depends on how badly we want
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> exist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the ACB doing it any better? That's debatable, but you know what
>>>>>> I've
>>>>>> found from the people I've met on that side of the house? They seem
>>>>>> happier,
>>>>>> and that's something we can't seem to figure out in our camp. The few
>>>>>> victories they celebrate they do with even less money. Let that be a
>>>>>> lesson
>>>>>> in financial management to you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what the hell I'm doing back here. I told myself I would
>>>>>> never
>>>>>> become one of those bitter former NFB members. My only goal was to
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> different perspectives to the new generation of leaders coming up
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> the ranks. After all, if you never taste the real world, you have no
>>>>>> business leading. That's like the teacher who teaches because they
>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>> cut it, and believe it or not, I want to see more and more of you
>>>>>> excel
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> whatever it is you want to do. The more of you there are, the greater
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> strength.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Moving forward I reckon I'll keep my opinions to myself here lest I
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> rotten apple that spoils the bunch, but in some lame attempt to
>>>>>> answer
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> original question, my answer would be this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The characteristics of a successful blind person are humility to
>>>>>> consume
>>>>>> what they need to be successful, fortitude to turn away what will
>>>>>> not,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> wisdom to recognize the difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Visit my blog:
>>>>>> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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