[nabs-l] Finding a niche in campus orgs

[Kaiti Shelton]

Hi Minh,

It's interesting that you bring in social justice to the conversation,
because that along with community are things I hear constantly at my
university, which is a Marianist college.  We have entire living
learning communities devoted to social justice, and yet there have
been times where I really have not felt like a member of the
"community."

I had a few really bad roommate experiences both this year and last,
and both times when talking about what was bothering me to RAs and
RCs, I was told, "Consider it from their point of view," and "Not
everyone was brought up the way you were."  Some of the things I was
speaking about were my roommate bringing guys into the room while I
was there and studying (I'm keeping it PG for the list), and the
roommates I have this semester leaving messes and expecting me and my
direct roommate to act like a maid service.  These are things people,
out of respect for those around them and that they are sharing spaces
with, just won't do.  Last year I felt the roommate was doing was
brought on by her belief that since I couldn't see what she was doing
she could get away with it, and I feel sort of the same way with my
roommates this semester.

Last semester my living learning community went on a retreat so people
could get to know each other, but it really didn't go as planned.  My
RC and fellow are really lazy with their jobs, so the thing didn't get
organized till a month of school was over and people had cliqued up.
To force us to meet people we didn't already know, they split
apartments up into the 2 cabins, 2 roommates from each apartment in
one, and 2 roommates in the other.  My direct roommate that semester
was a girl from Venezuela who had her group of friends, and my 2
friends I came into the apartment with were put in the other cabin.
Because I got turned around in the dark on the way to my cabin and had
to spend time waiting for my roommates to come from their cabin and
help me locate my own cabin, I missed out on grabbing a lot of the
stuff I needed, like a plug so I could charge my phone.  My phone
died, so I did not wake up to my alarm in the morning.  I am the type
of person who sleeps with it under my pillow because I don't wake up
to even pretty loud noises, and the battery didn't last through the
night.  I woke up to find everyone in my cabin gone, and an hour had
past since the time we were told to meet by the campfire.  When I
plugged in my phone I called back my roommates who noticed I wasn't at
breakfast but were told they had to stay with the group for liability
purposes (even though they said I wasn't with the group, so that was a
liability purpose if they wanted to be logical about it).  When I
called them I asked where everyone was, and they told me to stay there
because they were hiking through the woods on a very steep and kind of
dangerous trail, and were tripping over things themselves.  Not that
they don't think I'm capable of hiking, but they said the terrain
really probably wasn't that safe for anyone.  They managed to break
out of the group at the end of the hike and came to get me, and we as
an apartment filed a complaint with the disability office against the
llc.  Technically it wasn't discrimination, but I certainly didn't
feel like a part of the community when the fellow and RC failed to
consider safety risks that I told them about when they planned for
this retreat, and I didn't feel included when no one saw I wasn't
awake and didn't just nudge me to see if I wasn't awake.  Had I gone
on the hike and found it too dangerous, I would have also likely
turned back the way I came and not continued with the activity.

I know that social justice involves looking at things from other
people's perspectives, but it's hard to be supportive of things like
that when your own perspectives aren't being considered by those
around you.  That's kind of like Best Buddies, although it sounds like
an organization I could stand by and would like to be a part of, is
not one of my top picks for branching out next year.

I guess this is a broader issue; the fraternity isn't the only part of
campus life I'm having a hard time feeling included in.  I understand
that as one of 2 blind students out of several thousand that some of
this is going to happen, but I felt much more included last year than
I do this year, and fear it will get worse next year since in addition
to what is going on now, I will be living by myself.

On 4/8/14, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oops sorry, hit send before I meant too.
>
> I was just saying I had the luxury of choosing organizations that I
> thought would be most beneficial for students. I worked a lot with
> Habitat for Humanity as I felt their mission is to work with others on
> an equal level, not to treat the people they are serving like charity.
>
> I'm also blessed to go to a Jesuit institution where working towards
> social justice permeates everything we do. A lot of the service we do
> here isn't focused on a charity model, but a justice one where you
> stand in solidarity with the underprivileged groups that you are
> serving. I agree that sometimes non-disability groups can  be more
> open-minded because you don't have any of the prejudices that exist in
> disability related groups. Unfortunately though, I think this problem
> is universal,not just in service groups or student organizations. Take
> the recent discussion we had on the NFB and feeling excluded or judged
> because you don't live up to a certain standard of being blind.
>
>
>
> On 4/8/14, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Arielle,
>>
>> I definitely agree with you. I guess I'm speaking from my own
>> extensive experience with service back in high school as well as
>> college. In HS, I was president of National Honors Society and I had
>> to plan all the service events for the group, so I had the luxury of
>> choosing the organizations that I want
>>
>> On 4/7/14, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Unfortunately, orgs that work with marginalized populations aren't
>>> always inclusive. My best friend is blind and when she tried to
>>> volunteer for an org that provides therapeutic horseback riding for
>>> children with disabilities, she was treated very rudely and not
>>> allowed to be a volunteer without extensive supervision. It is sad,
>>> but sometimes groups that have a mission of helping others aren't
>>> motivated to include the types of people they help as equal members of
>>> their group. It's important to look closely at the attitudes of any
>>> service group and see if it's one that really cares about empowering
>>> people or if it's more interested in giving handouts or generating
>>> sympathy. For example, I think any group that uses pity or sympathy to
>>> raise funds or attract volunteers will probably not be a good one for
>>> a blind person to join and be fully included. My synagogue growing up
>>> had a youth group that had volunteers staff a retreat for kids from
>>> low-income families, whom they referred to as "under-privileged"
>>> children. I remember hearing their spiel about the retreat, aimed at
>>> getting youth volunteers to be counselors, and they said a lot of
>>> things about how horribly deprived these kids' lives are. While some
>>> of their statements might have been true, I found their whole tone to
>>> be very condescending and it turned me off from signing up. My sister
>>> worked the camp and she said that during one activity when the kids
>>> were talking about their dreams for the future, a bunch of them said
>>> they wanted to be counselors for the camp and it was so sad that they
>>> never could do that since the camp recruited counselors from our
>>> wealthy synagogue and not from the low-income areas where these kids
>>> lived. Going off topic a bit there, but my point is that some service
>>> groups unfortunately thrive on highlighting the differences between
>>> the people who serve and the people who are served, when in reality I
>>> think people who receive service should be allowed and invited to give
>>> it back. An organization that empowers people rather than keeping them
>>> down in order to help them is one that will probably be more inclusive
>>> of blind volunteers. Of course, within any organization there will be
>>> folks who just instinctively get it and others who won't, and if you
>>> run into an org that is intolerant for any reason, keep looking and
>>> you will find another one that is accepting. But in some ways,
>>> non-disability orgs may be more inclusive than those aiming to help
>>> the disabled. Just my thoughts.
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 4/7/14, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Kaiti,
>>>>
>>>> I totally sympathize with where you are coming from. Being  a part of
>>>> student organizations is not an easy thing, especially when we need
>>>> accommodations to participate fully in what's going on. The most
>>>> important thing is setting up clear boundaries regarding what you can
>>>> and cannot do. I'm just thinking that when you were using your vision
>>>> to do the best that you could with the google docs/spreadsheets,
>>>> people in your fraternity had the mistaken impression that it is all
>>>> accessible to you, and when you couldn't perform your tasks due to its
>>>> inherent inaccessibility, they were really confused at why you
>>>> couldn't suddenly do your job. With the organizations that I am in
>>>> now, I make sure to have a conversation with the president or whoever
>>>> is in charge of the communication system beforehand and let them know
>>>> clearly what my needs are. I have found that once I explain things to
>>>> them in a way they can sort of understand, they are more willing to
>>>> make changes on my behalf. I don't know if this is a thing at other
>>>> universities, but at my school "lunch dates" are huge and it's an
>>>> awesome way to get to know members of an organizations or just
>>>> interesting people on campus on a more personal level. Like it's not
>>>> weird here to say to someone, lets grab lunch/coffee/dinner sometime,
>>>> even if you only know them a little bit through a student org. This
>>>> could be something you might try to meet more people. And the
>>>> suggestions you gave about other organizations you could join are
>>>> great ones; I think community service groups like Best Buddies are
>>>> generally more accepting just because they work with marginalized
>>>> populations so they have a better grasp on inclusion.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I'm just wondering what technology you are using? Google drive
>>>> is not the greatest thing to work with, but it's getting better and
>>>> better every day and I have actually managed to read and add things to
>>>> existing documents that people send me. I am using Jaws 14 with the
>>>> latest version of firefox. I can navigate around a shared folder
>>>> someone send me, choose a document and read it as well as edit. This
>>>> could be something that you look into. I hope all this helps, and just
>>>> know everything will work out and that they're going to get better. :)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Minh
>>>>
>>>> On 4/7/14, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> First, I feel like this fraternity I am in deserves some explanation.
>>>>> It is not your typical sorority which girls join for social reasons.
>>>>> This is a professional music fraternity for women, and although it is
>>>>> not exclusively open to music majors, all members are there because
>>>>> they have a sincere interest in music.  These are the people I go to
>>>>> class with, and spend the majority of my time with in general since
>>>>> music students spend at least 75 percent of their time in the music
>>>>> building every day.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was a little difficult, because at the end of last year my member
>>>>> in training class was allowed to come to the last meeting of the year,
>>>>> since we had been initiated and were oficial sisters by that point.
>>>>> We were told we could nominate ourselves for appointed positions at
>>>>> that time, and several people said they thought I would be good for
>>>>> one which involves keeping records straight and organizing people to
>>>>> help out at events for the music department.  Being a pretty organized
>>>>> person and good with computers, I agreed that this position would be
>>>>> good for me, and signed myself up.  I was appointed, and started
>>>>> asking questions over the summer about how I could make it work.  My
>>>>> thought was that I could have an excel spreadsheet on my laptop, and
>>>>> just make sure I brought it to all the chapter meetings.  I was told
>>>>> not to do this, because the chapter already had everything on google
>>>>> drive.  I was given a link to a google docs spreadsheet, and used the
>>>>> vision I had to make the form.  I've managed to make this job work
>>>>> with the amount of vision I have, but I still don't have access to
>>>>> things like our calendar, and forms that I personally did not make
>>>>> because I don't know the layout of them, and using my magnifier
>>>>> software can be very confusing if I don't know the layout of the
>>>>> document.  I know when I asked about the excel spreadsheet the
>>>>> president probably just didn't understand, and that since I could make
>>>>> it work my inconvenience was trumped by the need for the chapter, and
>>>>> the job honestly isn't the problem.  It has been really difficult, and
>>>>> people have gotten unnecessarily mad at me for accessibility issues
>>>>> that weren't my fault, but the bigger issues are just a lack of
>>>>> communication in general and the fact that I don't have access to
>>>>> changing documents.
>>>>>
>>>>> I get emails when things are posted, but I just can't access them with
>>>>> jaws since they're all on google docs.  The other problem with getting
>>>>> text coppies of the documents is that they're always subject to
>>>>> change, and do quite frequently, so I don't know how effective getting
>>>>> text coppies of calendars and such at the beginning of the semester
>>>>> would be if things are constantly being moved around and modified.  I
>>>>> tried to talk to our current president, but since she's a music ed
>>>>> major who is student teaching this semester, she hasn't really been
>>>>> responsive to this issue.  I have let our new president know of the
>>>>> issues, and told her that I really just want to problem-solve for the
>>>>> future, but there isn't much she can do in the last few weeks of the
>>>>> semester anyway, and technically she still has not been installed as
>>>>> the new president, so I told her that it isn't something that I expect
>>>>> her to turn her attention to right away by any means.  I also
>>>>> suggested that it might be something the exec board as a whole looks
>>>>> into, so I expect that we'll talk about it over the summer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do have some friends in the group, so it isn't like I have no one in
>>>>> there to talk to or feel close to, I just don't feel like a part of
>>>>> the group as a whole because even those who know me well seem to think
>>>>> that I haven't done my job as well as I should have, and they
>>>>> obviously didn't think I should have had gotten elected to a position
>>>>> on exec board.  Perhaps I am taking elections a little personally, but
>>>>> my roommate was elected to serve as the chapter's treasurer, and it
>>>>> seems like she's always saying things about exec board. E.G, she said
>>>>> something in passing when we were having a conversation about when to
>>>>> go grocery shopping, and she said, "How about this day, because we'll
>>>>> be out of class early and we won't have exec board to worry about."
>>>>> She knows I don't have any exec board to be a part of, and I know the
>>>>> exec board for our organization does not even meet on that day of the
>>>>> week, so it was just very odd.  The one thing the group I left had
>>>>> going for them was that their online management system was completely
>>>>> jaws accessible.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have also considered joining different groups to try to branch out,
>>>>> even if I stay in this one.  Last semester I had my current roommate,
>>>>> plus another who I was even closer to.  The latter roommate no longer
>>>>> attends my university, and she was kind of like my closest friend on
>>>>> campus.  (We lived on the same floor freshman year, had a bunch of
>>>>> classes together, she already was cool about the blindness stuff
>>>>> because her grandmother had macular degeneration, so she introduced
>>>>> herself and we got really close, and still are from a geographical
>>>>> jdistance).  Next year I will be living in an apartment by myself,
>>>>> since my other roommate will be commuting and I'm kind of hesitant to
>>>>> go into a random roommate situation due to some negative experiences.
>>>>> However, I am an extroverted person, so I'm going to need to be around
>>>>> people and have my apartment primarily be the place where I keep my
>>>>> things and sleep.  I'm thinking of either joining the campus concert
>>>>> committee, which brings a concert from a well-known band to campus,
>>>>> best buddies which is a mentoring club which pairs college students to
>>>>> younger students with developmental disabilities, or colleges against
>>>>> cancer, which raises awareness for the American Cancer Society and
>>>>> organizes Relay for Life on campus.  I think these things are all
>>>>> relevant to my major, and also things I could see myself enjoying.  I
>>>>> have good communication skills and am pretty organized, so  I think I
>>>>> could still be an asset to an organization on campus, even if it isn't
>>>>> this particular one I am in right now.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/7/14, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I hated campus organizations altogether.  I joined mainly because of
>>>>>> political motives, but none of those orgs were accessible, and could
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> accommodate me at all.  Anyway, I couldn't rush for sororities
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> of blindness and the nonacceptance on campus.
>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>> On 4/7/2014 10:52 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote:
>>>>>>> Ah "the agenda".  I have been officially federationized...  I mean
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> you could have some time in a meeting to talk about how you access
>>>>>>> documents and such.  Lol
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/7/14, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Kaiti,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This sounds like my undergrad experience completely.  Of course, my
>>>>>>>> small liberal arts school didn't have fraternities, but when I
>>>>>>>> tried
>>>>>>>> to get involved with organizations on campus, I had similar
>>>>>>>> experiences.  I agree completely with Arielle.  Finding one or two
>>>>>>>> people to hang out with in the organization will make the
>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>> so much better for you.  Have you asked the leaders if you could
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> a few minutes on the agenda to speak about how you do things like
>>>>>>>> access documents?  Maybe if they understand that google docs is
>>>>>>>> inaccessible to you, you will come up with some sort of
>>>>>>>> accomidation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also was friends mainly with those older and younger than I, so I
>>>>>>>> seriously understand this.  I would recommend talking to someone in
>>>>>>>> the organization you trust about your concerns and then consider
>>>>>>>> dropping it if you can't get anywhere.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/7/14, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Good morning, Justin,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>           Good advice, if you are of a belief that working within
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> system which is, it sounds like, already stacked against you will
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> somehow, effective.
>>>>>>>>> So-called leaders will always have political strings manipulating
>>>>>>>>> their limbs so none of their  actions ought to be taken at face
>>>>>>>>> value.
>>>>>>>>> for today, CarAt 01:28 AM 4/7/2014, justin williams wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Have you approached the leaders of the fraternity? I'm sure you
>>>>>>>>>> have,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> just have to at least ask.  If so, it does not sound as if they
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> responsive.  If not the leaders, then maybe the advisor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>>>> Shelton
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 6:31 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Finding a niche in campus orgs
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For the past 2 years I've struggled to find my place in
>>>>>>>>>> organizations
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> campus.  I felt the same way in high school, but here is my
>>>>>>>>>> situation
>>>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Freshman year I was in a club for my major, as well as a
>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>> fraternity.  I ended up leaving that fraternity at the end of my
>>>>>>>>>> freshman
>>>>>>>>>> year because of a few things, but mainly because I felt the
>>>>>>>>>> chapter
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>> in a very beaurocratic style, and the same people always did
>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> never let those of us who were on the outside do much.  The
>>>>>>>>>> elections
>>>>>>>>>> seemed
>>>>>>>>>> more like a popularity contest, with really personal digs made by
>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>> exec board members against candidates who they did not want to
>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>>>> exec board positions.  Though I didn't run for anything, even as
>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> outsider, a member just watching and casting my votes, it left a
>>>>>>>>>> bitter
>>>>>>>>>> taste in my mouth.  If that was how it was going to be run, I
>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> be a part of the organization.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That spring semester I pledged another fraternity that I liked a
>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>> better.
>>>>>>>>>> This one is a professional organization more geared towards my
>>>>>>>>>> major.
>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> smaller, and still does service, which I like.
>>>>>>>>>> However, I have increasingly felt like I am not a part of the
>>>>>>>>>> group.
>>>>>>>>>> One of the main problems this year has been a lack of
>>>>>>>>>> communication
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> access to the google docs resources.  Of course, these things
>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>> fine
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> the other 20 members of the chapter who are sighted, but they do
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>> for me.  I feel that when I miss a piece of information that was
>>>>>>>>>> posted
>>>>>>>>>> online, or when I don't know to do something because I can't see
>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> are like, "Well, she screwed up again," rather than thinking,
>>>>>>>>>> "Oh,
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>>> if she didn't see it."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This all sounds much more bitter or dramatic than I really feel,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> bit frustrated by this.  I have good ideas, and can do my job
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> know what is expected of me and have the accessibility to do it.
>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>> with the google docs system, and the lack of communication I
>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> sisters about visual things they just pick up on naturally, I am
>>>>>>>>>> unable
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> contribute in the way I want to.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think my struggles with these things has also impacted me
>>>>>>>>>> socially.
>>>>>>>>>> We had elections a few weeks ago, and I was the only junior who
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> elected to an exec board position.  I ran for 2, and really
>>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> recording secretary position.  I feel like the issues I had this
>>>>>>>>>> year
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> made me seem like I am uncapable of carrying out these
>>>>>>>>>> responsibilities
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> my sisters, when they really don't know my situation and never
>>>>>>>>>> asked.
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> specifically chose to run for recording secretary because I have
>>>>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>>>>> experience with this position, and I also know that the minutes
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> taken
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Word Docs and member standing is kept track in a spreadsheet.  I
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> run into no technological glitches whatsoever, so this position
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> been great for me.  I also gave up membership in other clubs and
>>>>>>>>>> musical
>>>>>>>>>> ensembles in order to make time for an exec board position should
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> gotten one, so I'm thinking false social perceptions have gotten
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I also feel socially left out sometimes because not all members
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> chapter will talk to me.  I mean, I'm certainly not expecting to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>> friends with everyone, but some of them just don't even speak to
>>>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> isn't a good feeling.  And yes, I do try to speak to them.
>>>>>>>>>> They don't openly shun me, and it's not nearly that bad, but
>>>>>>>>>> unless
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>> something to them they won't say hi, or ask how I'm doing even
>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>> we're
>>>>>>>>>> sitting next to each other.  This is not just a chapter issue;
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> this happens with also don't really socialize with me in classes,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>> one of those awkward people who gets along more with people who
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> older
>>>>>>>>>> and younger than her than with students in my year.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I really don't want to sound whiney, because that was not my
>>>>>>>>>> intent
>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>> all,
>>>>>>>>>> but I'm wondering how people in similar situations got through
>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>>>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>>>>>> life."
>>>>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Check out my Wordpress blog: denverqueen.wordpress.com or you can
>>>>>> reach
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> by skype at denverqueen0920
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>
>
>
> --
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Kaiti