[nabs-l] living skills, unsupportive family and negative words

Fri Apr 25 06:02:53 UTC 2014

Hi Ashley,

I understand where you're coming from here as I have had to deal with
similar things.  I will tell you honestly here that moving out was the
best thing I ever did for myself in terms of my relationship with my
parents.  Arielle is completely right.  Even if your parents
understand blindness or believe that we can do most things, there will
always be that one thing they can't get past.  Combine that with the
desire to help us and their impatience when we're not doing something
fast enough, and you've got a dangerous mixture.

I, like Arielle, find that even a few days living with my parents
diminishes my confidence in my skills.  My father tends to do things
for me-finding things in the kitchen, laundry, buying all the
groceries, and he doesn't think that I recognize when I need help.  It
was easy then to believe that I couldn't do a lot for myself.  I
believed doing laundry, something simple and even fun, was too
difficult and would take me too long because I'm blind.  My mother
wanted me to learn and would often teach me things, but she had little
patience for me learning.  I actually discovered that getting her help
was a lot easier over the phone when she wasn't actually there to do
it for me but instead had to explain how to clean a spill out of the
carpet or whatever.  That way, I could be sincerely grateful for her
help and not feel like I couldn't do it.

Anyway, I, like the others, would recommend an NFB training center
because they challenge you, so even if you have good skills, it seems
they will work with you.  From what I understand, they can also work
with you on job skills and taylor other parts of training to your
individual needs.  That's why I would want to go to an NFB center.

Hearing that negativity does really take a tole and reduces
confidence.  I know that even living with my more positive parent is
difficult...  Staying with the more negative one makes me unhappy as
well.  So, Ashley, I hope you find the courage to move out or attend
an NFB center.  I think you would find a world of difference and
perhaps even develop a better relationship with your parents.

On 4/25/14, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ashley,
>
> Specifically to cooking, I can say that it is possible to learn how to
> cook on your own.  I am in the process of doing it myself.  Growing
> up, my mom was pretty supportive and taught me most things (how to
> take care of myself, how to label things with tactile markers (because
> I didn't actually get that from the state), and other things), but she
> did the adaptive stuff just with me telling her how I needed it done.
> I understood my mom was not a rehab professional, so it took my
> guidance to get things like our digital washing machine labeled so I
> could work the digital thing.  Sometimes, I had to pester her and
> remind her that in order to do laundry, per say, I needed the machine
> labeled.  My mom also had a tendency to get a little impatient if I
> had trouble catching on to her labeling systems or whatever, and again
> I had to just understand she wasn't a pro at this.
>
> The same thing happened with cooking.  I was really interested in
> learning to cook with the oven and stove, but didn't know where any of
> the buttons were or how to do anything.  Aside from a few batches of
> cookies, and one pan of lasagna which I made with a lot of her
> assistance, I never cooked with anything other than the microwave
> until this year of college when I had a kitchen in my apartment.
>
> There are a few basic things you can just learn by trying yourself.
> I'd start with the stove rather than the oven, because personally that
> worked well for me.  Of course, some stove and oven controls are
> better than others, and that was certainly the case between my home
> and apartment stoves (my apartment stove actually has dials for the
> burners with a tactile marking already on them, and they click into
> the different places so it works well without any modification).  I
> started boiling things, because those are very hard to screw up.
> Rice, pasta, and hard boiling eggs are very simple.  You just put them
> in a pot of water.  Rice and pasta you add once the water is boiling,
> but if you make eggs make sure you put eggs in before boiling water,
> because obviously the water will be hot once you turn the burner on.
>
> You can also try making simple things in a skillet.  Grilled cheese is
> really easy.  (take bread, put some butter on it, add cheese and
> another slice of bread, cook on medium and flip till both sides are
> toasted).  It is quick, and you should be able to smell when it is
> time to flip.
>
> If you want to try the oven, cookies are actually really easy.  Making
> them from scratch is not hard at all, you just add everything for the
> dough in a bowl, roll it into balls, and place equidistantly on the
> cookie sheet.  Place in a pre-heated oven at 350 degrees for about 10
> to 15 minutes, and take the cookies out.  Again, you should be able to
> smell when they're done pretty easily.  If you're not sure, don't be
> afraid to take them out and poke them with something.  I've let them
> cool for a minute and used my finger before, or you can also use a
> fork.  All you want to see is if the cookies are still gooey.  If they
> are, pop them back in for a few more minutes.
>
> It is really possible for a blind person to learn to cook through
> trial and error.  YOu might burn a few things at first, but once you
> get the hang of it you can start working your way up to the meats.
>
> Also, remember that even sighted people cook with the microwave.  What
> I do when I make a spaghetti dinner for example, is cook the pasta on
> the stove, and pop the sauce and the meatballs into the microwave for
> a few minutes.  It is perfectly fine to buy pre-formed meatballs and
> cook them like that, since that is not a blindness thing.  If you want
> to make them yourself though, all you have to do is get some ground
> beef, form it into balls, and place them in a dish like a pyrex so it
> can cook in the oven.  They shouldn't take long to cook that way
> either.  The sauce can also be heated on the stove, but again,
> probably more because I'm a college student than I'm a blind student,
> I take the easy way out and use the microwave to speed up the process.
>
> Hope this helps at least in this area.  It's really not as scary as it
> seems once you start experimenting with the oven and stove.
>
> On 4/25/14, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> joshua,
>> Yeah, I know what you mean about the transit; we have some paratransit
>> but
>> its limited sometimes due to the main bus schedule.
>> Its sadly something we deal with til we move out I suppose. I hope you
>> get
>> what you need in training.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Hendrickson
>> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 12:08 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] living skills, unsupportive family and negative
>> words
>>
>> Hi to all.  Arielle, I enjoyed your post.  As a blind adult living at
>> home, I understand about relying on parents for things.  You are
>> correct when you talked about sighted people living where there is
>> little paratransit.  I live in a small town, with no transit system,
>> so would have to rely on a family member to take me different places.
>> ?Ashley, I hope you can go to an NFB training center if that is your
>> choice.  I had to talk my state rehab service in to just cending me to
>> the instate training center in Chicago.  I'm also looking forward to
>> going to ICREWOOD not just because of the training, but to get away
>> from home for a few months.  I know how neat NFB training centers
>> sound, but for me, I just didn't want to fight and have to wait for
>> months and months for my state in Illinois to possibly aprove me for
>> training at an NFB CENTER.  Ashley, having a mom like yours sounds
>> difficult, but you need to do what is best for you regarding training.
>> You need to live your own life.  Good luck.  Thanks everyone for a
>> great list.  I always find it very interesting reading the different
>> posts.
>>
>> On 4/24/14, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Arielle,
>>>
>>> Thanks. I think your post raises some good points  and I do agree that
>>> parents can be protective coupled with the fact that yes indeed
>>> the transportation is a lot to be desired where sighted couples tend to
>>> live. We live in suburbs. The metro subway is extending near us but
>>> still
>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>> would need a cab; its approx 3 miles to the new metro so I need a ride
>>> via
>>> cab or family to get there. Still it will augment my travel options once
>>> its
>>>
>>> here in about four months.
>>> This I really look forward to because it knocks out one of the biggest
>>> excuses for not using the rail system more; its inconvenient to get
>>> there
>>> having to  not only attempt to park in the crowded lot, but also take
>>> like
>>> 25 minutes to get there.
>>>
>>> I have access to paratransit now which I sometimes use like to get to
>>> the
>>> mall I know where my gym is.
>>> You're right that only training can go so far and I  do agree that you
>>> have
>>>
>>> to experiment some, but still if you don't have a basis for recipe
>>> language
>>>
>>> or you cannot tell when your meat is cooked, you don't  have a safe or
>>> adaquate foundation to cook.
>>>
>>> As for my mom, she is overprotective and overlooks skills  I need. I'll
>>> never change her mind so I guess I should just learn what I can and go
>>> on.
>>> I'll just try and ignore the negativity rather than argue.
>>>
>>> I totally feel what you're saying about jobs. When I sought internships,
>>> I
>>> came back home from the freedom I had in the dorm setting.
>>> Here I relied on my parents for transit to the job interviews and even
>>> to
>>> work in the morning but did use the metro to go part way home and got a
>>> ride
>>>
>>> from the metro.
>>> Since they really did not want to fight rush hour traffic on a huge busy
>>> road we nick name the belt way around here, I was easily able to
>>> advocate
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>> them I'd do the metro route fine and since it required little outdoor
>>> travel, I think
>>> even my mom was okay with it.
>>>
>>> I also relied on them for basic necessities like any college student
>>> would;
>>>
>>> I did not have the money to buy my own work clothes or buy my metro
>>> fares.
>>> So, they had to support me  in my work related expenses in terms of
>>> dressing
>>>
>>> and transit. I am actually pretty grateful since my dad did support me
>>> also
>>>
>>> in filling out paperwork for my federal internships. I had to have a
>>> scribe
>>>
>>> as there was no way
>>> to do it otherwise. This also helped me in a way for the rest of the
>>> summer
>>>
>>> to have income and when in school, I had extra money to do as I pleased.
>>> You also implied that many young blind adults may find their
>>> independence
>>> being curtailed between college and work, and I agree.
>>> Its unfortunate that not all parents show us things and embrace the
>>> abilities of blind people. They equate lack of sight with lack of
>>> ability,
>>> and perhaps there is no way to change this.
>>>
>>> I'm glad you had a plan that worked for you and I think you have a job
>>> now
>>> which is excellent given our economy.
>>> Well, nice food for thought.
>>> Oh, rent being paid for by rehab, a pipe dream.
>>> Ashley
>>> Ashley
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 9:20 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] living skills, unsupportive family and negative
>>> words
>>>
>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>
>>> First, I think you have already received quite a bit of training. You
>>> could probably benefit from getting more, but I think it's important
>>> to ensure that whatever new training you get is actually
>>> higher-quality than the training you have already received. I am
>>> pretty sure that WSB would be a step backward in this regard. The NFB
>>> centers, however, could give you more rigorous training than what you
>>> have already gotten. Even just working informally with another blind
>>> person would probably advance your skills.
>>> Have you thought about going to an NFB center just for a brief test
>>> run? You could go for a month and, if you don't like it, leave at the
>>> end of the month. You don't have to make a commitment to the center
>>> when you first arrive.
>>>
>>> Second, while I don't agree with your mom's approach, I do think she
>>> is right that even the best training can only go so far. Eventually
>>> all of us need to be in the real world using our skills to solve
>>> everyday problems in order for those skills to really be effective. I
>>> believe that for many blind adults, living under the roof of a sighted
>>> parent can be extremely restrictive and prevent skills from naturally
>>> developing. Even if that parent is very supportive and empowering, at
>>> the end of the day the parent is still putting food on the table,
>>> still available to provide travel assistance, etc. One can learn a
>>> tremendous amount just by living independently and having to figure
>>> out the best way to meet one's real needs. I suspect that you already
>>> know a lot more than you think about how to care for yourself. But you
>>> won't find out how much you know until you are able to put that
>>> knowledge into action.
>>>
>>> The NFB centers are great because they provide both training and
>>> real-world experience living away from family.
>>> Again, I am starting to think that living at home with sighted parents
>>> is one of the worst places for a young blind adult to be. Keep in mind
>>> that it's hard for any parent to think of the baby they nursed and
>>> diapered as a real mature adult. Then add on top of that the fact that
>>> most sighted people really don't get blindness at all or truly
>>> understand how we do things, and the result is that we have parents
>>> who will always infantilize us on some level. Even in the best
>>> possible situation, it can be incredibly difficult for a blind adult
>>> to explore real self-sufficiency while under a parent's control. Then,
>>> add to that any normal human failings, prejudices or challenges your
>>> parents may have, financial challenges, marital stress, etc. and it
>>> can be a pretty crappy situation. And then finally, it seems like most
>>> sighted couples our parents' age tend to live in places with terrible
>>> public transportation. This means the blind adult living at home is
>>> struggling to get to job interviews and other career-related
>>> activities and often has to rely on the aforementioned infantilizing
>>> parents for basic necessities. Am I exaggerating here or does this
>>> sound about right to those of you living at home? I seriously wonder
>>> if VR could improve their success rate if they helped subsidize rent
>>> for young blind clients so they can live on their own in places with
>>> good transit and natural opportunities to develop confidence and
>>> self-reliance.
>>> I moved into the dorms when I was 18 and only came home for summers
>>> and breaks during college, and then as soon as I graduated I went to
>>> LCB and then to Boulder. I can't imagine myself ever moving back for
>>> any extended period of time. My parents and I get along fairly well,
>>> but even when I just visit them for a few days, my self-confidence and
>>> independence always takes a hit. It's clear to me that on some level,
>>> no matter how much education I get or how prestigious of a job I have,
>>> they will always see me as lacking in basic agency or awareness of the
>>> world around me because I can't see. I never really had
>>> age-appropriate opportunities to learn about life or to expand my
>>> skills until I was out of their house. Again, I love and respect my
>>> parents a lot and think they're great people, but the dynamic between
>>> them and me just isn't one to support my independence. I also have a
>>> few different blind friends who have successfully moved out and I can
>>> see the difference in their confidence and the things they are doing
>>> with their lives.
>>> I know money is a huge obstacle for many of us, but remember that the
>>> NFB centers are fully paid for by rehab, giving you an opportunity to
>>> live rent-free away from home for up to nine months while also
>>> receiving excellent training you can translate into a job. And, you
>>> can often find relatively inexpensive room-sharing options. I guess
>>> the first step is just to recognize that you are not only capable of
>>> living on your own, but I think you are entitled to the self-respect
>>> and independence it can give you, regardless of what anybody else
>>> thinks.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 4/24/14, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I would tell her you want to go to a mall and show her what you can do.
>>>> As
>>>> far as WSB, they will teach you daily living skills  before the IRS
>>>> program
>>>> I believe.
>>>> You just need to show your Mom you can do these things.
>>>> I wish you all the best.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 24, 2014, at 8:14 PM, anjelinac at att.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all, I don't think anyone has ever advocated to "screw what your
>>>>> parents say "and do whatever you want. There does come a point however
>>>>> where as adults we have to start start taking responsibility for our
>>>>> actions and our lives.
>>>>> If you wanted to go to training center and you needed assistance say
>>>>> in
>>>>> an
>>>>> airport there always people there who can help you. The training
>>>>> center
>>>>> is
>>>>> also not expecting that you're calling to come in with excellent
>>>>> skills.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2014, at 5:58 PM, "justin williams"
>>>>>> <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where there is a will, there is a way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 5:51 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] living skills, unsupportive family and negative
>>>>>> words
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Honestly, I'm in the same boat as Ashley, except I'm in college.  To
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> that say to basically screw what your parents tell you, get training
>>>>>> anyway,
>>>>>> I 100% agree.  Problem is, how to get to an NFB center?  You'd
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> to fly (I would, at least), and having basically no orientation and
>>>>>> mobility
>>>>>> skills, I would need their help to get there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/24/14, anjelinac at att.net <anjelinac at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Ashley, as many other people have said it is  up  to  your mom to
>>>>>>> change her attitude and perceptions on blindness. All you can do is
>>>>>>> work on yourself and give yourself the opportunities you need and
>>>>>>> deserve. I think the benefit of and Nfb training center is that you
>>>>>>> have to take all the classes. The classes can be geared toward your
>>>>>>> skills and abilities, but being able to increase your skills is just
>>>>>>> as good as being able to learn new skills.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:35 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am going to mainly vent here. Although I may not attend a nfb
>>>>>>>> center, I feel I should go for some training or get in house
>>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>>> from the lighthouse.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I want training tailored to the classes I need without sleepshades
>>>>>>>> and nfb centers have you take everything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, I'm very hurt that my mom won't support training.
>>>>>>>> For those who did not read much from me before, I'll say I grew up
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> a middle class family; pretty in tact. While I did receive fairly
>>>>>>>> good academic support to learn braille, large print, how to label
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> organize papers, use a talking calculator, and even some jaws
>>>>>>>> training, I did not receive much training in regard to living
>>>>>>>> skills.
>>>>>>>> I did receive traditional O&M but did get much better O&M training
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> an adult from our state agency.
>>>>>>>> My vr agency instructor taught me in some what of a discovery
>>>>>>>> fashion
>>>>>>>> and she encouraged exploration and had me plan routes.
>>>>>>>> She taught me about our metro system too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do have basic living skills from learning via a rehab teacher who
>>>>>>>> came to our home and attending our state center. but I did not get
>>>>>>>> everything at the state center as ADL was only twice a week.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, when possibly going to WSB for the IRS program came up, mom was
>>>>>>>> negative saying no way I cannot live on my own and how I don't try
>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>> She never says anything positive to move forward. I don't like the
>>>>>>>> idea of WSB but it was brought up with my new counselor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She doesn't support training. She blames me. I'm so tired and hurt
>>>>>>>> she keeps bllaming me. Okay, I cannot simply read a recipe and
>>>>>>>> cook.
>>>>>>>> you have to know how to cut vegies better than I do. You have to
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> how to measure well and cook meat.
>>>>>>>> I've seen recipies and I don't understand the lingo.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She says things like
>>>>>>>> "oh, you don't need training you had enough. You  just need to try
>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>> You're here often and don't do much." I say I do and I do my
>>>>>>>> laundry
>>>>>>>> and make sandwiches for instance. I said I looked for work myself.
>>>>>>>> I have used and tried to be actuve with the skills I have.
>>>>>>>> "Why don't you look around the kitchen and get recipies and try to
>>>>>>>> cook?
>>>>>>>> you just aren't adventurous. You should do more."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I tell her I don't know how. she just fails to get it. I am not
>>>>>>>> lazy.
>>>>>>>> I'm fairly resourceful; I even taught myself some stuff on the
>>>>>>>> computer. those fs webinars are helpful.
>>>>>>>> When I was on my own in college, I did explore the area and went to
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> few malls on my own. My parents wouldn't support that except for
>>>>>>>> going to the mall where my gym is since they know I had a little
>>>>>>>> orientation to it and I know its layout mostly. So I did use my O&M
>>>>>> skills.
>>>>>>>> When I suggest going places, it seems I often hear from mom, I'll
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> lost and no way I could find my way. Okay, I cannot do outside
>>>>>>>> safely, but indoors there should be no excuse; there are people to
>>>>>>>> gather directions from, and walls around so you can only go so far
>>>>>> astray.
>>>>>>>> Thing is my mother is the least supportive person. Never has she
>>>>>>>> showed me to make a dish and she did not even teach me to tie my
>>>>>>>> shoes. My TVI did the shoe thing. Never has she tried to help me
>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>> learn anything. Well, she did not help my brothers much but they
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> see others do it via tv or something.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm so tired she blames me when she is the big problem and then to
>>>>>>>> say I don't need more training is worse. Its like to her, I'm a
>>>>>>>> lost
>>>>>>>> case, and even if I'm trained I won't learn and won't try. Not true
>>>>>>>> at all. I've used a lot of skills I learned.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is just so amazing my mom won't support my independence and
>>>>>>>> feels
>>>>>>>> I'm incapable of it. I guess I'll someday move and prove her
>>>>>>>> otherwise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
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-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16