From tinypaws8491 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 2 17:50:55 2014 From: tinypaws8491 at yahoo.com (Thomas Peralta) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 10:50:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Fw: WTF? Walgreen's to use accounting gimmick to rip off Thomas Peralta. Yes, Thomas Peralta. In-Reply-To: <462133148.1457683636@kos.kosDB.mail.salsalabs.com> References: <462133148.1457683636@kos.kosDB.mail.salsalabs.com> Message-ID: <1407001855.27584.YahooMailNeo@web126105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> On Saturday, August 2, 2014 11:35 AM, "Paul Hogarth, Daily Kos" wrote: Thomas, if someone cheated you out of $4 billion, would you keep giving them your money? Sign the petition from Daily Kos and a large coalition letting Walgreens know that if they abandon the U.S., we will abandon them. No more shopping at Walgreens if they cheat us out of $4 billion by renouncing their U.S. citizenship and moving to a Swiss tax haven. Click here to add your name. Walgreen’s—the “pharmacy America trusts” that got its start in my home state of Illinois—is about to renounce its U.S. citizenship for tax purposes, moving its official headquarters to Switzerland. Walgreen’s would still depend on Americans to shop at its stores, on our roads and bridges, on our educated workforce, on our legal system and many other things that its taxes are supposed to help pay for. But we would lose $4 billion in tax revenue over the next five years. It gets worse. Walgreen’s also receives $17 billion per year from Medicare and Medicaid prescription sales, so one-fourth of its revenue comes from taxpayer-funded programs. Signature needed: Walgreens must not cheat American taxpayers out of $4 billion by becoming a Swiss company. If they abandon us, we will abandon them. Keep fighting, Paul Hogarth, Daily Kos To unsubscribe from ALL Daily Kos emails, visit this link. To opt-out ONLY from action emails, visit this link. From gera1027 at gmail.com Sat Aug 2 20:27:59 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 15:27:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Are you listening to music? Message-ID: <53DD49CF.7060301@gmail.com> HI listers The subject line says it all; it's the question I've gotten when in the store or wherever I'm with my family, they ask. The reason is because as most of you on here, I wear hearing aids due to a 70% hearing loss; I've got an IPhone, and always have atop my hearing aids the earbuds for the hands free piece, in case I get a call, I only have to press the button on the hands free and away I anser! I have each earbud atop each hearing aid if you understand what I mean because my hearing aids are those that go behind the ear. So my question is, do I really look Martian by always having these earbuds atop my hearing aids? My Mom says I do, but my Dad says that nowadays everyone has earbuds on all the time, thus appreciate any ideas. If indeed it isn't well-seen to always have earbuds on, then what other ideas do you guys who wear hearing aids have to offer? What I'm wanting is when I get a call, not waste time getting the phone out of my pocket, have to put the phone up to my hearing aids to hear what the caller id info says etc, thus I thought that maybe with the earbuds on the aids, would be the solution? Thanks for ideas. -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From codeofdusk at gmail.com Sat Aug 2 20:44:07 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 16:44:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Are you listening to music? In-Reply-To: <53DD49CF.7060301@gmail.com> References: <53DD49CF.7060301@gmail.com> Message-ID: <009c01cfae92$8271fb80$8755f280$@gmail.com> I don't wear hearing aids myself, but aren't there Bluetooth bridges for hearing aids? If so the caller ID and in-call audio would be patched directly through the hearing aids if I understand correctly. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2014 4:28 PM To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List; Blind exchange and discussion; A general blind chat list.; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Are you listening to music? HI listers The subject line says it all; it's the question I've gotten when in the store or wherever I'm with my family, they ask. The reason is because as most of you on here, I wear hearing aids due to a 70% hearing loss; I've got an IPhone, and always have atop my hearing aids the earbuds for the hands free piece, in case I get a call, I only have to press the button on the hands free and away I anser! I have each earbud atop each hearing aid if you understand what I mean because my hearing aids are those that go behind the ear. So my question is, do I really look Martian by always having these earbuds atop my hearing aids? My Mom says I do, but my Dad says that nowadays everyone has earbuds on all the time, thus appreciate any ideas. If indeed it isn't well-seen to always have earbuds on, then what other ideas do you guys who wear hearing aids have to offer? What I'm wanting is when I get a call, not waste time getting the phone out of my pocket, have to put the phone up to my hearing aids to hear what the caller id info says etc, thus I thought that maybe with the earbuds on the aids, would be the solution? Thanks for ideas. -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Sat Aug 2 21:01:18 2014 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 16:01:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Are you listening to music? Message-ID: <53dd51ca.259aec0a.0c88.287b@mx.google.com> Gerardo,=20I=20wear=20a=20hearing=20aid,=20but=20I=20don't=20wear=20headpho= nes=20with=20 my=20iPhone=20all=20the=20time.=20What=20I=20do=20is=20I=20turn=20the=20vol= ume=20down=20 reeeeeeeeeally=20low=20and=20hold=20it=20right=20to=20my=20ear.=20Having=20= a=20phone=20 pressed=20into=20your=20face=20is=20a=20more=20commonplace=20sight=20out=20= in=20public=20 than=20wearing=20earphones.=20I=20think=20certain=20hearing=20aids=20can=20= connect=20 to=20the=20iPhone=20via=20bluetooth,=20but=20I'm=20not=20sure=20how=20this= =20works. =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Gerardo=20Corripio=20via=20nabs-l=20,=20= Blind=20exchange=20and=20discussion=20,"A=20 general=20blind=20chat=20list."=20,=20National= =20 Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20 References: <53dd51ca.259aec0a.0c88.287b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <007801cfae95$d40cea10$7c26be30$@mediacombb.net> I wear hearing aids and have what is called a com-pilot. It connects = via Bluetooth to me hearing aids. Thus I can listen to music, radio, or = phone calls via Bluetooth and my hands are free. I really enjoy this. I use = an IPhone 5s. =20 Loren =20 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie = Trist via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 4:01 PM To: Gerardo Corripio; National Association of Blind Students mailing = list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are you listening to music? Gerardo, I wear a hearing aid, but I don't wear headphones with my = iPhone all the time. What I do is I turn the volume down reeeeeeeeeally low and hold it right to my ear. Having a phone pressed into your face is a more commonplace sight out in public than wearing earphones. I think certain hearing aids can connect to the iPhone via bluetooth, but I'm not sure = how this works. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l , Blind exchange and discussion ,"A general blind = chat list." , National Association of Blind Students mailing list References: <53DD49CF.7060301@gmail.com> Message-ID: <25179183-3CC0-4D0A-B06F-40F25FC7C9FE@gmail.com> Hi Gerardo! What's up? I don't think you look bad when you are wearing hearing aids! my friend! I think you look good! And By the way, did you receive my other email regarding the meeting tonight around 8 PM my time, which is 7 PM your time? Just curious! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students. Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 2, 2014, at 4:27 PM, Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l wrote: > > HI listers > The subject line says it all; it's the question I've gotten when in the store or wherever I'm with my family, they ask. The reason is because as most of you on here, I wear hearing aids due to a 70% hearing loss; I've got an IPhone, and always have atop my hearing aids the earbuds for the hands free piece, in case I get a call, I only have to press the button on the hands free and away I anser! I have each earbud atop each hearing aid if you understand what I mean because my hearing aids are those that go behind the ear. So my question is, do I really look Martian by always having these earbuds atop my hearing aids? My Mom says I do, but my Dad says that nowadays everyone has earbuds on all the time, thus appreciate any ideas. If indeed it isn't well-seen to always have earbuds on, then what other ideas do you guys who wear hearing aids have to offer? What I'm wanting is when I get a call, not waste time getting the phone out of my pocket, have to put the phone up to my hearing aids to hear what the caller id info says etc, thus I thought that maybe with the earbuds on the aids, would be the solution? Thanks for ideas. > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki > Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México > RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 03:45:14 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 23:45:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships Message-ID: Hello Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software or carry a USB version of the software? I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company computers with software may not be practical. Thanks! From kcj21 at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 3 04:01:27 2014 From: kcj21 at bellsouth.net (kcj21) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 21:01:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1407038487.96914.YahooMailNeo@web180902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Sofia,     I was lucky to get an internship with a local publishing company and as they worked from a small home office, they let me work from home and would send me manuscripts to edit. This allowed me to use my own assistive technology. I'm not sure where you wish to intern or work, but perhaps you could also work from home. If that is not an option , I suggest that you bring your screen reader on a thumb drive. I hope that helps, Kaley   On Saturday, August 2, 2014 11:45 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: Hello Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software or carry a USB version of the software? I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company computers with software may not be practical. Thanks! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net From jhud7789 at outlook.com Sun Aug 3 04:12:42 2014 From: jhud7789 at outlook.com (Joseph Hudson) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 23:12:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I would think about what kind of software that would be putting on that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on there and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer job is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer every 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, About getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. I hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate to contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > Hello > > Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) > that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, > using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms > of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did > you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software > or carry a USB version of the software? > > I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive > technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company > computers with software may not be practical. > > Thanks! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 04:35:17 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 00:35:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the replies. Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it for 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. I could always take my laptop and use that. I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have others made? Thanks for the input! Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson wrote: > > Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I would think about what kind of software that would be putting on that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on there and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer job is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer every 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, About getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. I hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate to contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > >> Hello >> >> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) >> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software >> or carry a USB version of the software? >> >> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >> computers with software may not be practical. >> >> Thanks! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com > From jhud7789 at outlook.com Sun Aug 3 04:36:27 2014 From: jhud7789 at outlook.com (Joseph Hudson) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 23:36:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Are you listening to music? In-Reply-To: <53dd51ca.259aec0a.0c88.287b@mx.google.com> References: <53dd51ca.259aec0a.0c88.287b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello Sophie at all, what I recommend doing, would be getting one of the icons from your hearing aid place, this can next to the hearing aids via wireless connection, and to connect to your phone, Via a Bluetooth connection. My dad has one end you have to press the button that is on the icon, this can hang around your neck and you don't have to worry about falling with your phone in your pocket or your ICOM. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask and I will try to help my bes On Aug 2, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Sophie Trist via nabs-l wrote: > Gerardo, I wear a hearing aid, but I don't wear headphones with my iPhone all the time. What I do is I turn the volume down reeeeeeeeeally low and hold it right to my ear. Having a phone pressed into your face is a more commonplace sight out in public than wearing earphones. I think certain hearing aids can connect to the iPhone via bluetooth, but I'm not sure how this works. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List , Blind exchange and discussion ,"A general blind chat list." , National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 15:27:59 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Are you listening to music? > > HI listers > The subject line says it all; it's the question I've gotten when in the > store or wherever I'm with my family, they ask. The reason is because as > most of you on here, I wear hearing aids due to a 70% hearing loss; I've > got an IPhone, and always have atop my hearing aids the earbuds for the > hands free piece, in case I get a call, I only have to press the button > on the hands free and away I anser! I have each earbud atop each hearing > aid if you understand what I mean because my hearing aids are those that > go behind the ear. So my question is, do I really look Martian by always > having these earbuds atop my hearing aids? My Mom says I do, but my Dad > says that nowadays everyone has earbuds on all the time, thus appreciate > any ideas. If indeed it isn't well-seen to always have earbuds on, then > what other ideas do you guys who wear hearing aids have to offer? What > I'm wanting is when I get a call, not waste time getting the phone out > of my pocket, have to put the phone up to my hearing aids to hear what > the caller id info says etc, thus I thought that maybe with the earbuds > on the aids, would be the solution? Thanks for ideas. > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psiclogo, Teraputa Reiki > Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas Mxico > RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicologa/Superacin Personal Sbados 10PM Mxico http://radiogeneral.com los esperamos! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Sun Aug 3 05:05:31 2014 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 01:05:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting permission to use a USB. May I ask what type of intership? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > > Thanks for the replies. > > Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it for 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. > > I could always take my laptop and use that. > > I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have others made? > > Thanks for the input! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson wrote: >> >> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I would think about what kind of software that would be putting on that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on there and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer job is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer every 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, About getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. I hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate to contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >>> Hello >>> >>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) >>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software >>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>> >>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>> computers with software may not be practical. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 05:17:39 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 01:17:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> It would be a political/policy internship. It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the Jaws website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not already installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your preferred settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have Jaws. Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners wrote: > > Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting permission to use a USB. > > May I ask what type of intership? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Thanks for the replies. >> >> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it for 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >> >> I could always take my laptop and use that. >> >> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have others made? >> >> Thanks for the input! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson wrote: >>> >>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I would think about what kind of software that would be putting on that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on there and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer job is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer every 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, About getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. I hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate to contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>>> Hello >>>> >>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) >>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software >>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>> >>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 05:56:30 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 22:56:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Sofia, Congrats on the internship! I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any trouble or additional cost. Of course you could also try NVDA. Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. Best, Arielle On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > It would be a political/policy internship. > > It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the Jaws > website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not already > installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your preferred > settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have Jaws. > Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >> wrote: >> >> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >> permission to use a USB. >> >> May I ask what type of intership? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the replies. >>> >>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it for >>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>> >>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>> >>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have >>> others made? >>> >>> Thanks for the input! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I would >>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that Machine >>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on there >>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer job >>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The >>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer every >>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and >>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, About >>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. I >>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate to >>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo >>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) >>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software >>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>> >>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From beckyasabo at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 06:11:11 2014 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (Becky) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 00:11:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04F5252B-BDA8-4FBA-BA3B-369BFAF9C1E1@gmail.com> Hi all I am starting a Intership for the fall. I can bring my laptop and it has voice over on it. Becky Sabo Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2014, at 9:45 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: Hello Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software or carry a USB version of the software? I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company computers with software may not be practical. Thanks! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 06:20:41 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 02:20:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> Message-ID: <73D506A6DFD34041B47FF3730D3DAA5C@Helga> Hi Arielle and all! I just wanted to ask you, since we are talking about screen readers, do you know where I can download the NVDA screen reader in order to put it on my thumb drive and take it everywere in order to use it in other people laptops? And also to use it on my laptop computer? Just wondering. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2014 1:56 AM To: Sofia Gallo ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships Hi Sofia, Congrats on the internship! I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any trouble or additional cost. Of course you could also try NVDA. Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. Best, Arielle On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > It would be a political/policy internship. > > It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the Jaws > website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not already > installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your preferred > settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have > Jaws. > Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >> wrote: >> >> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >> permission to use a USB. >> >> May I ask what type of intership? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the replies. >>> >>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it >>> for >>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>> >>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>> >>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have >>> others made? >>> >>> Thanks for the input! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I would >>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that Machine >>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on >>>> there >>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer job >>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The >>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer every >>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and >>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, >>>> About >>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. I >>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate to >>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo >>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) >>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software >>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>> >>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From codeofdusk at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 06:55:26 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 02:55:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <73D506A6DFD34041B47FF3730D3DAA5C@Helga> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <73D506A6DFD34041B47FF3730D3DAA5C@Helga> Message-ID: <006501cfaee7$e878e830$b96ab890$@gmail.com> Stable : http://nvda.sf.net Snapshots (these are considered unstable but I use them as my daily driver ) : http://nvda-project.org/snapshots Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2014 2:21 AM To: Arielle Silverman; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships Hi Arielle and all! I just wanted to ask you, since we are talking about screen readers, do you know where I can download the NVDA screen reader in order to put it on my thumb drive and take it everywere in order to use it in other people laptops? And also to use it on my laptop computer? Just wondering. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2014 1:56 AM To: Sofia Gallo ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships Hi Sofia, Congrats on the internship! I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any trouble or additional cost. Of course you could also try NVDA. Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. Best, Arielle On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > It would be a political/policy internship. > > It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the > Jaws website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is > not already installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to > apply your preferred settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a > computer that doesn't have Jaws. > Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >> >> wrote: >> >> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >> permission to use a USB. >> >> May I ask what type of intership? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the replies. >>> >>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use >>> it for >>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>> >>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>> >>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements >>> have others made? >>> >>> Thanks for the input! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>> would think about what kind of software that would be putting on >>>> that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're >>>> putting John's on there and it's all going to be a will to run in >>>> demo mode and my computer job is extensive I probably wouldn't deal >>>> to get much done in a day. The reason why I say that is because if >>>> I had to restart my computer every >>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring >>>> and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or >>>> Company, About getting the real version. Are you free later that >>>> you will be using. I hope this helps and if you having me other >>>> questions do not hesitate to >>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo >>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer >>>>> job) that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>> internet, using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work >>>>> out in terms of using assistive technology such as screen readers >>>>> like Jaws? Did you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo >>>>> mode of a software or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>> >>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40out >>>>> look.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16. >>> law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Sun Aug 3 12:14:30 2014 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 08:14:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Sofia, When I worked as an intern for one of our state Representatives, they were willing to install JAWS on the computer I was using in the office. Like you, I thought this would be a problem since I was only going to be working there for a couple of months. However, I was pleasantly surprised that they had it up and running for the first day of my internship. If the internship is through your college or university, I believe they are required to provide accommodations for the internship just as they would for any other class. Using JAWS in demo mode is definitely an option. However, I believe they recently changed how long you are able to use the demo before purchasing a license. I cannot remember how long the demo will now run, but if it is only for a month, then I am not quite sure how well it would work for your situation. If the computers run a recent version of Microsoft Office, you should be able to install Window Eyes on it for free. I personally cannot understand the voice that comes with NVDA, so I would probably choose this option instead. If your preferred screen reader is JAWS, you may wish to find out if your rehab agency will purchase the program for you to use on the job. It may or may not be an option for you, but thought I would mention it anyway. Best of luck to you with your internship. I hope it all goes well for you. Warm regards, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 11:45 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Internships Hello Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software or carry a USB version of the software? I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company computers with software may not be practical. Thanks! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From codyjbair at yahoo.com Sun Aug 3 13:35:50 2014 From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 07:35:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> Message-ID: <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 authorizations of Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work computers which worked excellent for me as their was no out of pocket cost for my employer and I had full use of Jaws. Cody Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi Sofia, > Congrats on the internship! > I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that > involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think > the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. > Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install > a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full > JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom > Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly > run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any > trouble or additional cost. > Of course you could also try NVDA. > Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. > Best, > Arielle > >> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> It would be a political/policy internship. >> >> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the Jaws >> website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not already >> installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your preferred >> settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have Jaws. >> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>> wrote: >>> >>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>> permission to use a USB. >>> >>> May I ask what type of intership? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>> >>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it for >>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>> >>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>> >>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have >>>> others made? >>>> >>>> Thanks for the input! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I would >>>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that Machine >>>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on there >>>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer job >>>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The >>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer every >>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and >>>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, About >>>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. I >>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate to >>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo >>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello >>>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) >>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software >>>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 16:31:22 2014 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 12:31:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the office computers. I was working with confidential client information at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop if your supervisor is ok with it. Minh On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: > I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 authorizations of > Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work computers which worked > excellent for me as their was no out of pocket cost for my employer and I > had full use of Jaws. > > Cody > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi Sofia, >> Congrats on the internship! >> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install >> a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full >> JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom >> Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly >> run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any >> trouble or additional cost. >> Of course you could also try NVDA. >> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>> >>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the >>> Jaws >>> website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not >>> already >>> installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your >>> preferred >>> settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have >>> Jaws. >>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>> permission to use a USB. >>>> >>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>> >>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it >>>>> for >>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>> >>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>> >>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>>>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have >>>>> others made? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>> would >>>>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that >>>>>> Machine >>>>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on >>>>>> there >>>>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer >>>>>> job >>>>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The >>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer >>>>>> every >>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and >>>>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, >>>>>> About >>>>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. >>>>>> I >>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate >>>>>> to >>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>> Gallo >>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer >>>>>>> job) >>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>>>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>>>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>> software >>>>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com > -- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 19:13:25 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 15:13:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> Thanks all! It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company computer and reset it after or use my own laptop. I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: > > I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of > a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me > to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so > I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore > year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit > and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the > office computers. I was working with confidential client information > at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. > Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a > jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, > I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop > if your supervisor is ok with it. > > Minh > >> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 authorizations of >> Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work computers which worked >> excellent for me as their was no out of pocket cost for my employer and I >> had full use of Jaws. >> >> Cody >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sofia, >>> Congrats on the internship! >>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install >>> a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full >>> JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom >>> Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly >>> run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any >>> trouble or additional cost. >>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>> >>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the >>>> Jaws >>>> website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not >>>> already >>>> installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your >>>> preferred >>>> settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have >>>> Jaws. >>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>> >>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it >>>>>> for >>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>> >>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>>>>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have >>>>>> others made? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that >>>>>>> Machine >>>>>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer >>>>>>> job >>>>>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The >>>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer >>>>>>> every >>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and >>>>>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, >>>>>>> About >>>>>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer >>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>>>>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>>>>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From kcj21 at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 3 19:21:12 2014 From: kcj21 at bellsouth.net (kcj21) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 12:21:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1407093672.62621.YahooMailNeo@web180906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I actually did not tell my boss until I had successfully completed my first assignment. After that, she asked me to write a short bio about myself , so she could put it on the company's facebook page and I briefly mentioned being visually impaired in the bio and that's how I told her. Luckily, she was very accepting and just asked me a few general questions about my sight. On Sunday, August 3, 2014 3:13 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: Thanks all! It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company computer and reset it after or use my own laptop. I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: > > I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of > a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me > to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so > I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore > year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit > and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the > office computers. I was working with confidential client information > at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. > Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a > jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, > I don't think it would be a huge deal for  you to use your own laptop > if your supervisor is ok with it. > > Minh > >> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 authorizations of >> Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work computers which worked >> excellent for me as their was no out of pocket cost for my employer and I >> had full use of Jaws. >> >> Cody >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sofia, >>> Congrats on the internship! >>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install >>> a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full >>> JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom >>> Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly >>> run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any >>> trouble or additional cost. >>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>> >>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the >>>> Jaws >>>> website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not >>>> already >>>> installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your >>>> preferred >>>> settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have >>>> Jaws. >>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>> >>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it >>>>>> for >>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>> >>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>>>>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have >>>>>> others made? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that >>>>>>> Machine >>>>>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer >>>>>>> job >>>>>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The >>>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer >>>>>>> every >>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and >>>>>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, >>>>>>> About >>>>>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> contact me off off list        n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer >>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>>>>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>>>>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Sun Aug 3 19:27:19 2014 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 15:27:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Sofia, I am not quite sure how someone could not tell that I am blind in an interview considering the fact that I use a long white cane. And although I am not sure if this is the best practice or not, I actually talked about how I use JAWS on the computer during my interview. Like you, I was concerned about how to go about installing a screen reader on the computer, so I thought I would be up front about this issue so I could make the most out of my internship. Perhaps others do things differently, but this is how I chose to handle this particular situation. Warm regards, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 3:13 PM To: minh ha; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships Thanks all! It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company computer and reset it after or use my own laptop. I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: > > I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of > a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me > to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so > I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore > year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit > and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the > office computers. I was working with confidential client information > at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. > Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a > jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, > I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop > if your supervisor is ok with it. > > Minh > >> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 >> authorizations of Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work >> computers which worked excellent for me as their was no out of pocket >> cost for my employer and I had full use of Jaws. >> >> Cody >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sofia, >>> Congrats on the internship! >>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can >>> install a full version on up to three computers. I recently >>> installed my full JAWS license on my new work computer and I just >>> called Freedom Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since >>> I had formerly run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did >>> without any trouble or additional cost. >>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>> >>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading >>>> the Jaws website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if >>>> Jaws is not already installed on the computer and that it's purpose >>>> is to apply your preferred settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on >>>> a computer that doesn't have Jaws. >>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>> >>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to >>>>>> use it for >>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>> >>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have >>>>>> had regarding assistive technology and internships. What >>>>>> arrangements have others made? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>> would think about what kind of software that would be putting on >>>>>>> that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're >>>>>>> putting John's on there and it's all going to be a will to run >>>>>>> in demo mode and my computer job is extensive I probably >>>>>>> wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The reason why I say >>>>>>> that is because if I had to restart my computer every >>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring >>>>>>> and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or >>>>>>> Company, About getting the real version. Are you free later that >>>>>>> you will be using. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not >>>>>>> hesitate to >>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a >>>>>>>> summer >>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>>>>> internet, using Word and other basic programs)? How did this >>>>>>>> work out in terms of using assistive technology such as screen >>>>>>>> readers like Jaws? Did you arrange to use your own computer, >>>>>>>> use the demo mode of a software or carry a USB version of the >>>>>>>> software? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using >>>>>>>> assistive technology when the job is only short-term since >>>>>>>> adjusting company computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40 >>>>>>>> outlook.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd >>>>>> 16.law.harvard.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma >>>> il.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yaho >>> o.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmai >> l.com > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 19:40:08 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 15:40:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> Message-ID: <454ABFD8-3F49-4338-99B6-C9F9335FEACE@gmail.com> The thing is my internship doesm't have an interview so it's my choice when I want to bring it up. I know thatlegally they should take me if I'm qualified, but I don't want to get accepted, bring up my visual impairment and go to a hostile work environment. Would it be better to bring up the screem reader beforehan and not wait until i have been accepted? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 3:27 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > > Hi Sofia, > > I am not quite sure how someone could not tell that I am blind in an > interview considering the fact that I use a long white cane. And although I > am not sure if this is the best practice or not, I actually talked about how > I use JAWS on the computer during my interview. Like you, I was concerned > about how to go about installing a screen reader on the computer, so I > thought I would be up front about this issue so I could make the most out of > my internship. Perhaps others do things differently, but this is how I chose > to handle this particular situation. > > Warm regards, > Elizabeth > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via > nabs-l > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 3:13 PM > To: minh ha; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships > > Thanks all! > > It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company computer and > reset it after or use my own laptop. > > I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing > accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: >> >> I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of >> a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me >> to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so >> I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore >> year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit >> and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the >> office computers. I was working with confidential client information >> at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. >> Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a >> jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, >> I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop >> if your supervisor is ok with it. >> >> Minh >> >>> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >>> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 >>> authorizations of Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work >>> computers which worked excellent for me as their was no out of pocket >>> cost for my employer and I had full use of Jaws. >>> >>> Cody >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sofia, >>>> Congrats on the internship! >>>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can >>>> install a full version on up to three computers. I recently >>>> installed my full JAWS license on my new work computer and I just >>>> called Freedom Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since >>>> I had formerly run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did >>>> without any trouble or additional cost. >>>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>>> >>>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading >>>>> the Jaws website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if >>>>> Jaws is not already installed on the computer and that it's purpose >>>>> is to apply your preferred settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on >>>>> a computer that doesn't have Jaws. >>>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>>> >>>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to >>>>>>> use it for >>>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have >>>>>>> had regarding assistive technology and internships. What >>>>>>> arrangements have others made? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>>> would think about what kind of software that would be putting on >>>>>>>> that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're >>>>>>>> putting John's on there and it's all going to be a will to run >>>>>>>> in demo mode and my computer job is extensive I probably >>>>>>>> wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The reason why I say >>>>>>>> that is because if I had to restart my computer every >>>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring >>>>>>>> and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or >>>>>>>> Company, About getting the real version. Are you free later that >>>>>>>> you will be using. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not >>>>>>>> hesitate to >>>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a >>>>>>>>> summer >>>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>>>>>> internet, using Word and other basic programs)? How did this >>>>>>>>> work out in terms of using assistive technology such as screen >>>>>>>>> readers like Jaws? Did you arrange to use your own computer, >>>>>>>>> use the demo mode of a software or carry a USB version of the >>>>>>>>> software? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using >>>>>>>>> assistive technology when the job is only short-term since >>>>>>>>> adjusting company computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40 >>>>>>>>> outlook.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd >>>>>>> 16.law.harvard.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma >>>>> il.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yaho >>>> o.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmai >>> l.com >> >> >> -- >> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gma >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From jhud7789 at outlook.com Sun Aug 3 19:57:51 2014 From: jhud7789 at outlook.com (Joseph Hudson) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 14:57:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, most GFW keys, allow you to install them on more than one computer time. I've even had to reinstall my keys several times since purchased you. And the key expires does not work there is a reset as well. On Aug 3, 2014, at 11:31 AM, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: > I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of > a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me > to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so > I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore > year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit > and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the > office computers. I was working with confidential client information > at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. > Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a > jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, > I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop > if your supervisor is ok with it. > > Minh > > On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 authorizations of >> Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work computers which worked >> excellent for me as their was no out of pocket cost for my employer and I >> had full use of Jaws. >> >> Cody >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sofia, >>> Congrats on the internship! >>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install >>> a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full >>> JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom >>> Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly >>> run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any >>> trouble or additional cost. >>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>> >>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the >>>> Jaws >>>> website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not >>>> already >>>> installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your >>>> preferred >>>> settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have >>>> Jaws. >>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>> >>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it >>>>>> for >>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>> >>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>>>>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have >>>>>> others made? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that >>>>>>> Machine >>>>>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer >>>>>>> job >>>>>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The >>>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer >>>>>>> every >>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and >>>>>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, >>>>>>> About >>>>>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer >>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>>>>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>>>>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 22:18:17 2014 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 18:18:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> Message-ID: Um, no, the internship that I had last year the supervisor knew full well I was totally blind since I showed up to the interview with my guide dog. ... I was fully qualified for the position so they took me on despite of reservations they might had about accommodations and stuff like that. Personally, I don't think my blindness is a huge deal so I'm not afraid of hiding it to the world. Minh On 8/3/14, Sofia Gallo wrote: > Thanks all! > > It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company computer and > reset it after or use my own laptop. > > I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing > accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of >> a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me >> to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so >> I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore >> year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit >> and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the >> office computers. I was working with confidential client information >> at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. >> Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a >> jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, >> I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop >> if your supervisor is ok with it. >> >> Minh >> >>> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >>> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 authorizations >>> of >>> Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work computers which worked >>> excellent for me as their was no out of pocket cost for my employer and >>> I >>> had full use of Jaws. >>> >>> Cody >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sofia, >>>> Congrats on the internship! >>>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install >>>> a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full >>>> JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom >>>> Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly >>>> run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any >>>> trouble or additional cost. >>>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>>> >>>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the >>>>> Jaws >>>>> website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not >>>>> already >>>>> installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your >>>>> preferred >>>>> settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have >>>>> Jaws. >>>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>>> >>>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>>>>>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> others made? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that >>>>>>>> Machine >>>>>>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer >>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer >>>>>>>> every >>>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, >>>>>>>> About >>>>>>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be >>>>>>>> using. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not >>>>>>>> hesitate >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer >>>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>>>>>> internet, >>>>>>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in >>>>>>>>> terms >>>>>>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? >>>>>>>>> Did >>>>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>>>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>>>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > -- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 22:29:51 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 18:29:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> Message-ID: <93A1B523-FBBD-4E5D-8AD8-C30A3705FAD7@gmail.com> I dom't think my blindness is a big deal either but i was adviced by a counselor not to say anything until i get accepted, which goes against my instincts which is why i ask:)Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 6:18 PM, minh ha wrote: > > Um, no, the internship that I had last year the supervisor knew full > well I was totally blind since I showed up to the interview with my > guide dog. ... I was fully qualified for the position so they took me > on despite of reservations they might had about accommodations and > stuff like that. Personally, I don't think my blindness is a huge deal > so I'm not afraid of hiding it to the world. > > Minh > >> On 8/3/14, Sofia Gallo wrote: >> Thanks all! >> >> It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company computer and >> reset it after or use my own laptop. >> >> I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing >> accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of >>> a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me >>> to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so >>> I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore >>> year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit >>> and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the >>> office computers. I was working with confidential client information >>> at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. >>> Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a >>> jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, >>> I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop >>> if your supervisor is ok with it. >>> >>> Minh >>> >>>> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >>>> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 authorizations >>>> of >>>> Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work computers which worked >>>> excellent for me as their was no out of pocket cost for my employer and >>>> I >>>> had full use of Jaws. >>>> >>>> Cody >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sofia, >>>>> Congrats on the internship! >>>>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>>>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>>>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>>>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install >>>>> a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full >>>>> JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom >>>>> Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly >>>>> run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any >>>>> trouble or additional cost. >>>>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>>>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>>>> >>>>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the >>>>>> Jaws >>>>>> website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not >>>>>> already >>>>>> installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your >>>>>> preferred >>>>>> settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have >>>>>> Jaws. >>>>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>>>>>>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> others made? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that >>>>>>>>> Machine >>>>>>>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on >>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer >>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer >>>>>>>>> every >>>>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, >>>>>>>>> About >>>>>>>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be >>>>>>>>> using. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not >>>>>>>>> hesitate >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer >>>>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>>>>>>> internet, >>>>>>>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in >>>>>>>>>> terms >>>>>>>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? >>>>>>>>>> Did >>>>>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>>>>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>>>>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence From mikgephart at icloud.com Sun Aug 3 23:53:05 2014 From: mikgephart at icloud.com (Mikayla Gephart) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2014 19:53:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <93A1B523-FBBD-4E5D-8AD8-C30A3705FAD7@gmail.com> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> <93A1B523-FBBD-4E5D-8AD8-C30A3705FAD7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9DC40C0D-A656-4E1E-BC38-9712F5FEB775@icloud.com> ,your counselor probably said that because it is descriminatory if they do not hire you because you are blind, and not telling might give you a chance to show what you can do. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 6:29 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > > I dom't think my blindness is a big deal either but i was adviced by a counselor not to say anything until i get accepted, which goes against my instincts which is why i ask:)Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 6:18 PM, minh ha wrote: >> >> Um, no, the internship that I had last year the supervisor knew full >> well I was totally blind since I showed up to the interview with my >> guide dog. ... I was fully qualified for the position so they took me >> on despite of reservations they might had about accommodations and >> stuff like that. Personally, I don't think my blindness is a huge deal >> so I'm not afraid of hiding it to the world. >> >> Minh >> >>> On 8/3/14, Sofia Gallo wrote: >>> Thanks all! >>> >>> It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company computer and >>> reset it after or use my own laptop. >>> >>> I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing >>> accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of >>>> a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me >>>> to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so >>>> I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore >>>> year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit >>>> and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the >>>> office computers. I was working with confidential client information >>>> at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. >>>> Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a >>>> jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, >>>> I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop >>>> if your supervisor is ok with it. >>>> >>>> Minh >>>> >>>>> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 authorizations >>>>> of >>>>> Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work computers which worked >>>>> excellent for me as their was no out of pocket cost for my employer and >>>>> I >>>>> had full use of Jaws. >>>>> >>>>> Cody >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Sofia, >>>>>> Congrats on the internship! >>>>>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>>>>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>>>>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>>>>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install >>>>>> a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full >>>>>> JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom >>>>>> Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly >>>>>> run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any >>>>>> trouble or additional cost. >>>>>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>>>>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the >>>>>>> Jaws >>>>>>> website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not >>>>>>> already >>>>>>> installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your >>>>>>> preferred >>>>>>> settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have >>>>>>> Jaws. >>>>>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>>>>>>>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> others made? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that >>>>>>>>>> Machine >>>>>>>>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on >>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer >>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer >>>>>>>>>> every >>>>>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, >>>>>>>>>> About >>>>>>>>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be >>>>>>>>>> using. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not >>>>>>>>>> hesitate >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer >>>>>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>>>>>>>> internet, >>>>>>>>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in >>>>>>>>>>> terms >>>>>>>>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? >>>>>>>>>>> Did >>>>>>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>>>>>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>>>>>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 00:31:37 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 20:31:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <9DC40C0D-A656-4E1E-BC38-9712F5FEB775@icloud.com> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> <93A1B523-FBBD-4E5D-8AD8-C30A3705FAD7@gmail.com> <9DC40C0D-A656-4E1E-BC38-9712F5FEB775@icloud.com> Message-ID: Mikayla, that was her reasoning exactly -- only discuss screen reader accommodations after being accepted Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Mikayla Gephart wrote: > > ,your counselor probably said that because it is descriminatory if they do not hire you because you are blind, and not telling might give you a chance to show what you can do. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 6:29 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >> I dom't think my blindness is a big deal either but i was adviced by a counselor not to say anything until i get accepted, which goes against my instincts which is why i ask:)Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 6:18 PM, minh ha wrote: >>> >>> Um, no, the internship that I had last year the supervisor knew full >>> well I was totally blind since I showed up to the interview with my >>> guide dog. ... I was fully qualified for the position so they took me >>> on despite of reservations they might had about accommodations and >>> stuff like that. Personally, I don't think my blindness is a huge deal >>> so I'm not afraid of hiding it to the world. >>> >>> Minh >>> >>>> On 8/3/14, Sofia Gallo wrote: >>>> Thanks all! >>>> >>>> It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company computer and >>>> reset it after or use my own laptop. >>>> >>>> I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing >>>> accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of >>>>> a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me >>>>> to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so >>>>> I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore >>>>> year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit >>>>> and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the >>>>> office computers. I was working with confidential client information >>>>> at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. >>>>> Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a >>>>> jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, >>>>> I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop >>>>> if your supervisor is ok with it. >>>>> >>>>> Minh >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 authorizations >>>>>> of >>>>>> Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work computers which worked >>>>>> excellent for me as their was no out of pocket cost for my employer and >>>>>> I >>>>>> had full use of Jaws. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cody >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Sofia, >>>>>>> Congrats on the internship! >>>>>>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>>>>>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>>>>>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>>>>>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install >>>>>>> a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full >>>>>>> JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom >>>>>>> Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly >>>>>>> run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any >>>>>>> trouble or additional cost. >>>>>>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>>>>>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the >>>>>>>> Jaws >>>>>>>> website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not >>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>> installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your >>>>>>>> preferred >>>>>>>> settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have >>>>>>>> Jaws. >>>>>>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>>>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>>>>>>>>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> others made? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that >>>>>>>>>>> Machine >>>>>>>>>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on >>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer >>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer >>>>>>>>>>> every >>>>>>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, >>>>>>>>>>> About >>>>>>>>>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be >>>>>>>>>>> using. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not >>>>>>>>>>> hesitate >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer >>>>>>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>>>>>>>>> internet, >>>>>>>>>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in >>>>>>>>>>>> terms >>>>>>>>>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? >>>>>>>>>>>> Did >>>>>>>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>>>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>>>>>>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>>>>>>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >>>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 00:35:38 2014 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 20:35:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <93A1B523-FBBD-4E5D-8AD8-C30A3705FAD7@gmail.com> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> <93A1B523-FBBD-4E5D-8AD8-C30A3705FAD7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002d01cfaf7c$03db8f80$0b92ae80$@gmail.com> Sofia and Others, I agree with Minh that blindness need not be something of which you are ashamed. Certainly any denial of employment based solely on blindness connotes belief in blindness misconceptions on the part of the employer. However, I don't think it is necessary to make your blindness a dominant part of conversation about employment either. While I am by no means ashamed or afraid of my blindness, neither do I want an employer to hire me out of pity based on my blindness. This is why I don't pull the "blind card"--as I like to call it--initially when applying for a position, whether paid or volunteer. When I applied for the internship in which I currently work, I made no mention of my blindness in my application or resume. I also asked the guidance counselor who is in charge of internships at my high school not to mention it to my potential boss prior to the interview. This was not to downplay or hide my blindness; quite the contrary. I wanted my potential employer to grant me the interview based on my merit, not on my blindness. If I didn't talk about my blindness up front, I could ensure that she was looking at my application and resume objectively, with blindness being of no consequence to her decision. When the interview came, however, I was up front about my blindness. I walked into the room with my cane, which clarified to her that I am blind. There were certainly some questions about how I could handle the work and what accommodations she would need to provide, but I was able to put her mind at ease by explaining the alternative techniques I use and referring back to my resume. I was hired soon after, and it has gone very well so far. In my opinion, had I discussed my blindness at the application stage, the interview would have probably gone very differently. Just my thoughts. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 6:30 PM To: minh ha Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships I dom't think my blindness is a big deal either but i was adviced by a counselor not to say anything until i get accepted, which goes against my instincts which is why i ask:)Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 6:18 PM, minh ha wrote: > > Um, no, the internship that I had last year the supervisor knew full > well I was totally blind since I showed up to the interview with my > guide dog. ... I was fully qualified for the position so they took me > on despite of reservations they might had about accommodations and > stuff like that. Personally, I don't think my blindness is a huge deal > so I'm not afraid of hiding it to the world. > > Minh > >> On 8/3/14, Sofia Gallo wrote: >> Thanks all! >> >> It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company >> computer and reset it after or use my own laptop. >> >> I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing >> accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use >>> of a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always >>> allowed me to use my own computer and they just connected me to >>> their network so I could access pertinent information. Last year >>> during my sophomore year of college, I had an internship with a >>> social service non-profit and my state agency provided a jaws key >>> for me to put on 3 of the office computers. I was working with >>> confidential client information at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. >>> Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide >>> a jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. >>> Otherwise, I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use >>> your own laptop if your supervisor is ok with it. >>> >>> Minh >>> >>>> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >>>> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 >>>> authorizations of Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work >>>> computers which worked excellent for me as their was no out of >>>> pocket cost for my employer and I had full use of Jaws. >>>> >>>> Cody >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sofia, >>>>> Congrats on the internship! >>>>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>>>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't >>>>> think the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>>>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can >>>>> install a full version on up to three computers. I recently >>>>> installed my full JAWS license on my new work computer and I just >>>>> called Freedom Scientific and asked them to reset my license >>>>> (since I had formerly run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and >>>>> they did without any trouble or additional cost. >>>>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>>>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>>>> >>>>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading >>>>>> the Jaws website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if >>>>>> Jaws is not already installed on the computer and that it's >>>>>> purpose is to apply your preferred settings to jaws, and not to >>>>>> use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have Jaws. >>>>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to >>>>>>>> use it for >>>>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others >>>>>>>> have had regarding assistive technology and internships. What >>>>>>>> arrangements have others made? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, >>>>>>>>> I would think about what kind of software that would be >>>>>>>>> putting on that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because >>>>>>>>> if they're putting John's on there and it's all going to be a >>>>>>>>> will to run in demo mode and my computer job is extensive I >>>>>>>>> probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my >>>>>>>>> computer every >>>>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get >>>>>>>>> tiring and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the >>>>>>>>> person or Company, About getting the real version. Are you >>>>>>>>> free later that you will be using. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not >>>>>>>>> hesitate to >>>>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a >>>>>>>>>> summer >>>>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>>>>>>> internet, using Word and other basic programs)? How did this >>>>>>>>>> work out in terms of using assistive technology such as >>>>>>>>>> screen readers like Jaws? >>>>>>>>>> Did >>>>>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>>>>> software or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using >>>>>>>>>> assistive technology when the job is only short-term since >>>>>>>>>> adjusting company computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789% >>>>>>>>>> 40outlook.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40 >>>>>>>> jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40ya >>>>> hoo.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gm >>>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the >>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40g >>> mail.com > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 00:44:45 2014 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 20:44:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002e01cfaf7d$4995a370$dcc0ea50$@gmail.com> Sofia, I am currently interning with my local school system's IT department. As a current student, I had a school-issued laptop with JAWS already installed. They allowed me to use that laptop and simply set up a staff log-in that I could use to connect to the network. Another option is to purchase a copy of JAWS on a dongle and ask your employer to install a free demo of JAWS on the computer you will be using. Inserting the dongle, which looks like a flash drive, into the computer's USB port will make the demo behave like a full version. HTH, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 3:13 PM To: minh ha; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships Thanks all! It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company computer and reset it after or use my own laptop. I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: > > I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of > a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me > to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so > I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore > year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit > and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the > office computers. I was working with confidential client information > at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. > Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a > jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, > I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop > if your supervisor is ok with it. > > Minh > >> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 >> authorizations of Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work >> computers which worked excellent for me as their was no out of pocket >> cost for my employer and I had full use of Jaws. >> >> Cody >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sofia, >>> Congrats on the internship! >>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can >>> install a full version on up to three computers. I recently >>> installed my full JAWS license on my new work computer and I just >>> called Freedom Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since >>> I had formerly run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did >>> without any trouble or additional cost. >>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>> >>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading >>>> the Jaws website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if >>>> Jaws is not already installed on the computer and that it's purpose >>>> is to apply your preferred settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on >>>> a computer that doesn't have Jaws. >>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>> >>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to >>>>>> use it for >>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>> >>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have >>>>>> had regarding assistive technology and internships. What >>>>>> arrangements have others made? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>> would think about what kind of software that would be putting on >>>>>>> that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're >>>>>>> putting John's on there and it's all going to be a will to run >>>>>>> in demo mode and my computer job is extensive I probably >>>>>>> wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The reason why I say >>>>>>> that is because if I had to restart my computer every >>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring >>>>>>> and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or >>>>>>> Company, About getting the real version. Are you free later that >>>>>>> you will be using. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not >>>>>>> hesitate to >>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a >>>>>>>> summer >>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>>>>> internet, using Word and other basic programs)? How did this >>>>>>>> work out in terms of using assistive technology such as screen >>>>>>>> readers like Jaws? Did you arrange to use your own computer, >>>>>>>> use the demo mode of a software or carry a USB version of the >>>>>>>> software? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using >>>>>>>> assistive technology when the job is only short-term since >>>>>>>> adjusting company computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40 >>>>>>>> outlook.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd >>>>>> 16.law.harvard.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma >>>> il.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yaho >>> o.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmai >> l.com > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 00:47:02 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 20:47:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <002d01cfaf7c$03db8f80$0b92ae80$@gmail.com> References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> <93A1B523-FBBD-4E5D-8AD8-C30A3705FAD7@gmail.com> <002d01cfaf7c$03db8f80$0b92ae80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00bb01cfaf7d$9b5eae40$d21c0ac0$@gmail.com> As long as not telling someone about your blindness does not result in lying on a resume, that is fine. Chriss, you did a great job with getting that internship. Thumbs up. Great job. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l Sent: 0Sunday, August 03, 2014 8:36 PM To: 'Sofia Gallo'; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships Sofia and Others, I agree with Minh that blindness need not be something of which you are ashamed. Certainly any denial of employment based solely on blindness connotes belief in blindness misconceptions on the part of the employer. However, I don't think it is necessary to make your blindness a dominant part of conversation about employment either. While I am by no means ashamed or afraid of my blindness, neither do I want an employer to hire me out of pity based on my blindness. This is why I don't pull the "blind card"--as I like to call it--initially when applying for a position, whether paid or volunteer. When I applied for the internship in which I currently work, I made no mention of my blindness in my application or resume. I also asked the guidance counselor who is in charge of internships at my high school not to mention it to my potential boss prior to the interview. This was not to downplay or hide my blindness; quite the contrary. I wanted my potential employer to grant me the interview based on my merit, not on my blindness. If I didn't talk about my blindness up front, I could ensure that she was looking at my application and resume objectively, with blindness being of no consequence to her decision. When the interview came, however, I was up front about my blindness. I walked into the room with my cane, which clarified to her that I am blind. There were certainly some questions about how I could handle the work and what accommodations she would need to provide, but I was able to put her mind at ease by explaining the alternative techniques I use and referring back to my resume. I was hired soon after, and it has gone very well so far. In my opinion, had I discussed my blindness at the application stage, the interview would have probably gone very differently. Just my thoughts. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 6:30 PM To: minh ha Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships I dom't think my blindness is a big deal either but i was adviced by a counselor not to say anything until i get accepted, which goes against my instincts which is why i ask:)Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 6:18 PM, minh ha wrote: > > Um, no, the internship that I had last year the supervisor knew full > well I was totally blind since I showed up to the interview with my > guide dog. ... I was fully qualified for the position so they took me > on despite of reservations they might had about accommodations and > stuff like that. Personally, I don't think my blindness is a huge deal > so I'm not afraid of hiding it to the world. > > Minh > >> On 8/3/14, Sofia Gallo wrote: >> Thanks all! >> >> It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company >> computer and reset it after or use my own laptop. >> >> I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing >> accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use >>> of a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always >>> allowed me to use my own computer and they just connected me to >>> their network so I could access pertinent information. Last year >>> during my sophomore year of college, I had an internship with a >>> social service non-profit and my state agency provided a jaws key >>> for me to put on 3 of the office computers. I was working with >>> confidential client information at the time so it was necessary for >>> me to use one of their computers. >>> Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide >>> a jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. >>> Otherwise, I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use >>> your own laptop if your supervisor is ok with it. >>> >>> Minh >>> >>>> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >>>> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 >>>> authorizations of Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work >>>> computers which worked excellent for me as their was no out of >>>> pocket cost for my employer and I had full use of Jaws. >>>> >>>> Cody >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sofia, >>>>> Congrats on the internship! >>>>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>>>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't >>>>> think the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>>>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can >>>>> install a full version on up to three computers. I recently >>>>> installed my full JAWS license on my new work computer and I just >>>>> called Freedom Scientific and asked them to reset my license >>>>> (since I had formerly run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and >>>>> they did without any trouble or additional cost. >>>>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>>>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>>>> >>>>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading >>>>>> the Jaws website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if >>>>>> Jaws is not already installed on the computer and that it's >>>>>> purpose is to apply your preferred settings to jaws, and not to >>>>>> use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have Jaws. >>>>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to >>>>>>>> use it for >>>>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others >>>>>>>> have had regarding assistive technology and internships. What >>>>>>>> arrangements have others made? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, >>>>>>>>> I would think about what kind of software that would be >>>>>>>>> putting on that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because >>>>>>>>> if they're putting John's on there and it's all going to be a >>>>>>>>> will to run in demo mode and my computer job is extensive I >>>>>>>>> probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my >>>>>>>>> computer every >>>>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get >>>>>>>>> tiring and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the >>>>>>>>> person or Company, About getting the real version. Are you >>>>>>>>> free later that you will be using. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not >>>>>>>>> hesitate to >>>>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a >>>>>>>>>> summer >>>>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>>>>>>> internet, using Word and other basic programs)? How did this >>>>>>>>>> work out in terms of using assistive technology such as >>>>>>>>>> screen readers like Jaws? >>>>>>>>>> Did >>>>>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>>>>> software or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using >>>>>>>>>> assistive technology when the job is only short-term since >>>>>>>>>> adjusting company computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789% >>>>>>>>>> 40outlook.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40 >>>>>>>> jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40ya >>>>> hoo.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gm >>>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the >>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40g >>> mail.com > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From mikgephart at icloud.com Mon Aug 4 00:56:18 2014 From: mikgephart at icloud.com (Mikayla Gephart) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2014 20:56:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: <161ABDAF-7B68-49CF-98E2-E72E7DF50974@gmail.com> <401B466A-4999-430B-A168-6C56CFADAF01@yahoo.com> <3707BB6E-9BCE-42F2-81EC-BF987B3B4C66@gmail.com> <93A1B523-FBBD-4E5D-8AD8-C30A3705FAD7@gmail.com> <9DC40C0D-A656-4E1E-BC38-9712F5FEB775@icloud.com> Message-ID: <8FA57DA5-009E-4CCE-B88F-EA4DD16ACE92@icloud.com> I think that is good advice. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 8:31 PM, Sofia Gallo wrote: > > Mikayla, that was her reasoning exactly -- only discuss screen reader accommodations after being accepted > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Mikayla Gephart wrote: >> >> ,your counselor probably said that because it is descriminatory if they do not hire you because you are blind, and not telling might give you a chance to show what you can do. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 6:29 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> I dom't think my blindness is a big deal either but i was adviced by a counselor not to say anything until i get accepted, which goes against my instincts which is why i ask:)Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 6:18 PM, minh ha wrote: >>>> >>>> Um, no, the internship that I had last year the supervisor knew full >>>> well I was totally blind since I showed up to the interview with my >>>> guide dog. ... I was fully qualified for the position so they took me >>>> on despite of reservations they might had about accommodations and >>>> stuff like that. Personally, I don't think my blindness is a huge deal >>>> so I'm not afraid of hiding it to the world. >>>> >>>> Minh >>>> >>>>> On 8/3/14, Sofia Gallo wrote: >>>>> Thanks all! >>>>> >>>>> It looks like I can instal my own version of Jaws on a company computer and >>>>> reset it after or use my own laptop. >>>>> >>>>> I imagine you didn't say anything about being blind or needing >>>>> accommodations until afterbeing accepted to the internship? :) >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:31 PM, minh ha via nabs-l >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I've had various internships over the years that required heavy use of >>>>>> a computer for research, writing, etc. My employers always allowed me >>>>>> to use my own computer and they just connected me to their network so >>>>>> I could access pertinent information. Last year during my sophomore >>>>>> year of college, I had an internship with a social service non-profit >>>>>> and my state agency provided a jaws key for me to put on 3 of the >>>>>> office computers. I was working with confidential client information >>>>>> at the time so it was necessary for me to use one of their computers. >>>>>> Definitely check into your state agency to see if they will provide a >>>>>> jaws key for you to use temporarily during your internship. Otherwise, >>>>>> I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to use your own laptop >>>>>> if your supervisor is ok with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Minh >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/3/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>> I have also had two summer jobs in colege. Since I had 3 authorizations >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> Jaws I authorized the software on both of my work computers which worked >>>>>>> excellent for me as their was no out of pocket cost for my employer and >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> had full use of Jaws. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cody >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Sofia, >>>>>>>> Congrats on the internship! >>>>>>>> I had three different summer jobs in high school and college that >>>>>>>> involved computers. Each timeI used JAWS in demo mode; I don't think >>>>>>>> the USB's existed yet. It was no problem using JAWS in demo mode. >>>>>>>> Also, if you have JAWS on your home computer, I think you can install >>>>>>>> a full version on up to three computers. I recently installed my full >>>>>>>> JAWS license on my new work computer and I just called Freedom >>>>>>>> Scientific and asked them to reset my license (since I had formerly >>>>>>>> run it on an old laptop I no longer use) and they did without any >>>>>>>> trouble or additional cost. >>>>>>>> Of course you could also try NVDA. >>>>>>>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your USB question. >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 8/2/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>>>> It would be a political/policy internship. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It sounds like a USB would be the best option, but after reading the >>>>>>>>> Jaws >>>>>>>>> website, it seems like the USB version doesn't work if Jaws is not >>>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>> installed on the computer and that it's purpose is to apply your >>>>>>>>> preferred >>>>>>>>> settings to jaws, and not to use Jaws on a computer that doesn't have >>>>>>>>> Jaws. >>>>>>>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong:) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Derek Manners >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Depending on your place, your machine is the best bet or getting >>>>>>>>>> permission to use a USB. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> May I ask what type of intership? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:35 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the replies. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I could always take my laptop and use that. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >>>>>>>>>>> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> others made? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the input! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I >>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that >>>>>>>>>>>> Machine >>>>>>>>>>>> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on >>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>> and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer >>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>> is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. >>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>> reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer >>>>>>>>>>>> every >>>>>>>>>>>> 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, >>>>>>>>>>>> About >>>>>>>>>>>> getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be >>>>>>>>>>>> using. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not >>>>>>>>>>>> hesitate >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia >>>>>>>>>>>> Gallo >>>>>>>>>>>> via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer >>>>>>>>>>>>> job) >>>>>>>>>>>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the >>>>>>>>>>>>> internet, >>>>>>>>>>>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in >>>>>>>>>>>>> terms >>>>>>>>>>>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Did >>>>>>>>>>>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a >>>>>>>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>>>>>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>>>>>>>>>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>>>>>>>>>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >>>>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 01:06:48 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 21:06:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <016601cfaf80$5ea52670$1bef7350$@gmail.com> I use my personal laptop with my practicum, and I think I will do the same with my internship. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 12:35 AM To: Joseph Hudson Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships Thanks for the replies. Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it for 2 months doesn't sound very reasonable. I could always take my laptop and use that. I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have others made? Thanks for the input! Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson wrote: > > Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I would think about what kind of software that would be putting on that Machine whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on there and it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer job is extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The reason why I say that is because if I had to restart my computer every 40 minutes or restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and slowing on my process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, About getting the real version. Are you free later that you will be using. I hope this helps and if you having me other questions do not hesitate to contact me off off list n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > >> Hello >> >> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) >> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software >> or carry a USB version of the software? >> >> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >> computers with software may not be practical. >> >> Thanks! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outloo >> k.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 01:44:02 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 21:44:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: <016601cfaf80$5ea52670$1bef7350$@gmail.com> References: <016601cfaf80$5ea52670$1bef7350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: It seems like an interview is the best time to clear up any misconceptions and address any accommodations, but what if there is no interview?.. I agree with Chris, I don't like to play the blind card but I'm not at all ashamed either. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 9:06 PM, "justin williams" wrote: > > I use my personal laptop with my practicum, and I think I will do the same > with my internship. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via > nabs-l > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 12:35 AM > To: Joseph Hudson > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships > > Thanks for the replies. > > Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it for 2 > months doesn't sound very reasonable. > > I could always take my laptop and use that. > > I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had > regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have > others made? > > Thanks for the input! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson wrote: >> >> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I would > think about what kind of software that would be putting on that Machine > whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on there and > it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer job is > extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The reason why > I say that is because if I had to restart my computer every 40 minutes or > restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and slowing on my > process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, About getting the real > version. Are you free later that you will be using. I hope this helps and if > you having me other questions do not hesitate to contact me off off list > n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > wrote: >> >>> Hello >>> >>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) >>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software >>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>> >>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>> computers with software may not be practical. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outloo >>> k.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 01:47:49 2014 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 21:47:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internships In-Reply-To: References: <016601cfaf80$5ea52670$1bef7350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Does your employer do any follow up, whether by phone or by email, between application and acceptance? Perhaps then would be a good time to address blindness things. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 9:44 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > > It seems like an interview is the best time to clear up any misconceptions and address any accommodations, but what if there is no interview?.. > > I agree with Chris, I don't like to play the blind card but I'm not at all ashamed either. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2014, at 9:06 PM, "justin williams" wrote: >> >> I use my personal laptop with my practicum, and I think I will do the same >> with my internship. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via >> nabs-l >> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 12:35 AM >> To: Joseph Hudson >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internships >> >> Thanks for the replies. >> >> Jaws in demo mode is a pain, but getting the whole software to use it for 2 >> months doesn't sound very reasonable. >> >> I could always take my laptop and use that. >> >> I have options, but I was wondering what experiences others have had >> regarding assistive technology and internships. What arrangements have >> others made? >> >> Thanks for the input! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Hudson wrote: >>> >>> Hi, I think before I even think about getting a job like that, I would >> think about what kind of software that would be putting on that Machine >> whether it be MBVA or John's? Because if they're putting John's on there and >> it's all going to be a will to run in demo mode and my computer job is >> extensive I probably wouldn't deal to get much done in a day. The reason why >> I say that is because if I had to restart my computer every 40 minutes or >> restart John, every 40 minutes Alakaina get tiring and slowing on my >> process. So possible, talk to the person or Company, About getting the real >> version. Are you free later that you will be using. I hope this helps and if >> you having me other questions do not hesitate to contact me off off list >> n Aug 2, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello >>>> >>>> Has anyone had an internship or short-term job (such as a summer job) >>>> that required extensive computer use (such as browsing the internet, >>>> using Word and other basic programs)? How did this work out in terms >>>> of using assistive technology such as screen readers like Jaws? Did >>>> you arrange to use your own computer, use the demo mode of a software >>>> or carry a USB version of the software? >>>> >>>> I'm just wondering what experiences anyone has had using assistive >>>> technology when the job is only short-term since adjusting company >>>> computers with software may not be practical. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outloo >>>> k.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail >> .com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From internetradioentertainer at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 07:50:20 2014 From: internetradioentertainer at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 03:50:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] =?utf-8?q?Sorry_I_missed_=C3=BFr_call?= In-Reply-To: <53c2eaa6.650bec0a.7fe1.ffffc0da@mx.google.com> References: <53c2eaa6.650bec0a.7fe1.ffffc0da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <53DF3B3C.1060305@gmail.com> Add daviddunphyradio to your skype if ever you'd like to talk. On 7/13/2014 4:23 PM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Rj sorry I missed your call earlier but I was doing some reading > with my dad. I'll be at home all day on Wednesday so you can skype me > then. I'll try to skype you tomorrow morning before I go to mobility > session. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/internetradioentertainer%40gmail.com > > From martinezana770 at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 15:07:00 2014 From: martinezana770 at gmail.com (martinezana770 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 10:07:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College finder Message-ID: <468C5450-F768-49F6-AA58-4787882C619C@gmail.com> Hi all! Does any of you know of any accessible college finder? Thanks :) Sent from my iPhone From kcj21 at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 4 15:55:15 2014 From: kcj21 at bellsouth.net (kcj21) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 08:55:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] College finder In-Reply-To: <468C5450-F768-49F6-AA58-4787882C619C@gmail.com> References: <468C5450-F768-49F6-AA58-4787882C619C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1407167715.69712.YahooMailNeo@web180901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Ana,         Personally, I found visiting the colleges that I was considering to be the most helpful. This enabled me to rule out certain schools that I found to be overwhelmingly large and eventually, I found the college that was right for me. This list is also an excellent resource. You can ask people on this list about the colleges that you are considering and they can give you feedback. I hope this helps, Kaley On Monday, August 4, 2014 11:08 AM, Ana via nabs-l wrote: Hi all! Does any of you know of any accessible college finder? Thanks :) Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 16:36:02 2014 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 09:36:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] College finder In-Reply-To: <1407167715.69712.YahooMailNeo@web180901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <468C5450-F768-49F6-AA58-4787882C619C@gmail.com> <1407167715.69712.YahooMailNeo@web180901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ana, Although I haven't used the website since 2007, I found the Princeton Review's Counselor-o-matic program to be quite insiteful. I think it can be helpful to know a place to start. You fill out a profile and it comes up with a list of colleges it considers to be easy schools for you to get in to, schools whose requirements about align with your achievements, and reach schools which still might be worth applying for but which are more competitive based on your achievements. The profile not only considers achievements but other factors like your majors of interest, and size and location preferences. You can also google for lists of schools that have remarkable departments for majors you are interested in using terms like "top undergraduate psychology programs." I did visit schools once I narrowed down my list, and that was very helpful, but the internet can be a really good place to start to help you narrow down where you want to visit or to learn about schools that you may not be able to visit. I really recommend visiting though if at all possible! In North Carolina, we have cfnc.org which is a website housing information about schools in North Carolina. Perhaps other states have a similar website. Also, ask the list once you narrow down your interests, or if you already know what majors you are considering, feel free to throw those out and some of us might have recommendations of schools to research. Cindy On 8/4/14, kcj21 via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Ana, > > Personally, I found visiting the colleges that I was considering to > be the most helpful. This enabled me to rule out certain schools that I > found to be overwhelmingly large and eventually, I found the college that > was right for me. This list is also an excellent resource. You can ask > people on this list about the colleges that you are considering and they can > give you feedback. > I hope this helps, > Kaley > > > On Monday, August 4, 2014 11:08 AM, Ana via nabs-l > wrote: > > > > Hi all! Does any of you know of any accessible college finder? Thanks :) > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Aug 4 21:22:30 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 17:22:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adobe digital editions books Message-ID: <3A477F07ADD843F8ADC3E62057BC5FC0@OwnerPC> Hi all, Like all libraries, the college library is using many ebooks although they still get regular books too. Has anyone been able to use adobe digital editions books? If so, were you able to use the full navigation of it? A librarian told me a user sees the chapters as links usually and they click on those to go forward. In my limited experience, I have experienced inaccessibility with them and some don’t open fully although that may be an internet issue. Which devices have you used to read ebooks? IPads/ipod touches? Kindle fire hd? laptops? Thanks. Ashley Anyway, From filerime at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 21:48:03 2014 From: filerime at gmail.com (Elif Emir) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 17:48:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adobe digital editions books In-Reply-To: <3A477F07ADD843F8ADC3E62057BC5FC0@OwnerPC> References: <3A477F07ADD843F8ADC3E62057BC5FC0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hello Ashley, I'm using DSM 5 on it. It is pretty important in counseling, I frequently have to look certain parts of it. At first it was difficult to adjust my self. I'm using it on my computer with Windows 7. I can't see the chapters as links. I even can't read the content page of it. But I asked someone to read the content page and I wrote it in a word doc. The think I like most is that, with just one tab, I can come to the area that I can type the page number and then hit enter. Then I'm on that page. good luck 2014-08-04 17:22 GMT-04:00, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l : > Hi all, > > Like all libraries, the college library is using many ebooks although they > still get regular books too. > > Has anyone been able to use adobe digital editions books? > If so, were you able to use the full navigation of it? A librarian told me a > user sees the chapters as links usually and they click on those to go > forward. > > In my limited experience, I have experienced inaccessibility with them and > some don’t open fully although that may be an internet issue. > Which devices have you used to read ebooks? IPads/ipod touches? Kindle fire > hd? laptops? > > Thanks. > > Ashley > Anyway, > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Aug 5 00:12:06 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 20:12:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adobe digital editions books In-Reply-To: References: <3A477F07ADD843F8ADC3E62057BC5FC0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <471DA1186A6447C88D9BEC51F41A520A@OwnerPC> Hi, accidently sent this to her; now on list. I had a similar issue. The navigation was unusable. I could not click on the chapter links to get to where I needed to be. Often jaws said blank when I attempted to scroll down to further text. Adobe digital editions is common. I hope to hear other experiences. If it’s a common problem, I'm going to try and see if NFB can work with adobe to fix it. I will call the national office about this matter if it’s a widespread problem. Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Elif Emir Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 5:48 PM To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] adobe digital editions books Hello Ashley, I'm using DSM 5 on it. It is pretty important in counseling, I frequently have to look certain parts of it. At first it was difficult to adjust my self. I'm using it on my computer with Windows 7. I can't see the chapters as links. I even can't read the content page of it. But I asked someone to read the content page and I wrote it in a word doc. The think I like most is that, with just one tab, I can come to the area that I can type the page number and then hit enter. Then I'm on that page. good luck 2014-08-04 17:22 GMT-04:00, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l : > Hi all, > > Like all libraries, the college library is using many ebooks although they > still get regular books too. > > Has anyone been able to use adobe digital editions books? > If so, were you able to use the full navigation of it? A librarian told me > a > user sees the chapters as links usually and they click on those to go > forward. > > In my limited experience, I have experienced inaccessibility with them and > some don’t open fully although that may be an internet issue. > Which devices have you used to read ebooks? IPads/ipod touches? Kindle > fire > hd? laptops? > > Thanks. > > Ashley > Anyway, > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com > From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 02:41:11 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 22:41:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible With Screen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? Message-ID: <2697A9727261484ABE8638525604373B@Helga> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, how do I know or check if a website is accessible with an Screen reader? For instance, JAWS, NVDA, Windows Eyes, and many others! And if it is not, how can I make it accessible in order to work with them? I’m just wondering! I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wlEmoticon-smile[1].png Type: image/png Size: 1046 bytes Desc: not available URL: From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 02:59:24 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 22:59:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA Message-ID: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> Hi Everyone! How are you all again? I just wanted to ask you, can anyone here help me download NVDA into my computer, and also help me put it in my Thumb drive in order to use it in others people computer as well? I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! since I don’t want to mess with my laptop computer! LOL! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wlEmoticon-smile[1].png Type: image/png Size: 1046 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 13:54:18 2014 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria Graves) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:54:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> References: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> Message-ID: <047B8F79-C46E-4249-9B8C-65320BD22594@gmail.com> Hi, When you receive a response to this message would you please forward it to me? I have the same thoughts and questions and would like some assistance if possible. Thanks, Gloria Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 4, 2014, at 9:59 PM, Helga via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi Everyone! How are you all again? I just wanted to ask you, can anyone here help me download NVDA into my computer, and also help me put it in my Thumb drive in order to use it in others people computer as well? I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! since I don’t want to mess with my laptop computer! LOL! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students > Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From matt.dierckens at me.com Tue Aug 5 13:57:24 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 09:57:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: <047B8F79-C46E-4249-9B8C-65320BD22594@gmail.com> References: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> <047B8F79-C46E-4249-9B8C-65320BD22594@gmail.com> Message-ID: <63FFA0C0-B361-4F1E-A5BB-237B2A92A5B9@me.com> I will be recording a demo of how to do this today. I will send it along to the list. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 5, 2014, at 9:54, Gloria Graves via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi, > When you receive a response to this message would you please forward it to me? I have the same thoughts and questions and would like some assistance if possible. > Thanks, > Gloria > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 4, 2014, at 9:59 PM, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi Everyone! How are you all again? I just wanted to ask you, can anyone here help me download NVDA into my computer, and also help me put it in my Thumb drive in order to use it in others people computer as well? I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! since I don’t want to mess with my laptop computer! LOL! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From matt.dierckens at me.com Tue Aug 5 14:38:39 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 10:38:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: <047B8F79-C46E-4249-9B8C-65320BD22594@gmail.com> References: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> <047B8F79-C46E-4249-9B8C-65320BD22594@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0AD01D99-1489-433A-88B8-73F4316D3921@me.com> The tutorial is now done, I'm going to put it in dropbox and will send along right now. Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ On Aug 5, 2014, at 9:54, Gloria Graves via nabs-l wrote: > Hi, > When you receive a response to this message would you please forward it to me? I have the same thoughts and questions and would like some assistance if possible. > Thanks, > Gloria > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 4, 2014, at 9:59 PM, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi Everyone! How are you all again? I just wanted to ask you, can anyone here help me download NVDA into my computer, and also help me put it in my Thumb drive in order to use it in others people computer as well? I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! since I don’t want to mess with my laptop computer! LOL! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From amc05111 at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 14:44:52 2014 From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley Coleman) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 10:44:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> References: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> Message-ID: Hi all, If anyone needs help, I would be glad to help. It is a fairly simple process. If either of you need to Skype, or talk on the phone while you are doing this, I would be glad to do that. Ashley Coleman, > On Aug 4, 2014, at 22:59, Helga via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi Everyone! How are you all again? I just wanted to ask you, can anyone here help me download NVDA into my computer, and also help me put it in my Thumb drive in order to use it in others people computer as well? I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! since I don’t want to mess with my laptop computer! LOL! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students > Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com From matt.dierckens at me.com Tue Aug 5 15:51:01 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:51:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: References: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> Message-ID: <282DB0AE-3411-46CA-92D8-DF488318D596@me.com> alright, here it is. If you have any question please don't hesitate to email me off list./ https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1657117/installing%20NVDA%20on%20a%20flash%20drive.mp3 Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ On Aug 5, 2014, at 10:44, Ashley Coleman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > If anyone needs help, I would be glad to help. It is a fairly simple process. If either of you need to Skype, or talk on the phone while you are doing this, I would be glad to do that. > > > Ashley Coleman, > > > >> On Aug 4, 2014, at 22:59, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi Everyone! How are you all again? I just wanted to ask you, can anyone here help me download NVDA into my computer, and also help me put it in my Thumb drive in order to use it in others people computer as well? I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! since I don’t want to mess with my laptop computer! LOL! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From cape.amanda at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 17:06:42 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 13:06:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Spigo to play president Message-ID: <1DD35B4A-F5D4-4F94-A849-0D07F491C3AE@gmail.com> Hi everyone, Have any of you played the card game president on spigo.com or any other program? If so, does it work?nda From andrewjedg at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 17:22:53 2014 From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 13:22:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Spigo to play president In-Reply-To: <1DD35B4A-F5D4-4F94-A849-0D07F491C3AE@gmail.com> References: <1DD35B4A-F5D4-4F94-A849-0D07F491C3AE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi i never have and what is this pgame exactly about and what is it is it a card game so you all are aware there is a excessible game site called rsgames. if anybody is interested they can go to www.rsgames.org. you can either play as web through the web site and also you can download the rsgames client. and it is excessible. and you said the game is called president On 8/5/14, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > Have any of you played the card game president on spigo.com or any other > program? If so, does it work?nda > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com > From cape.amanda at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 17:59:13 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 13:59:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Spigo to play president Message-ID: <9E3F320D-87B6-459E-94B3-A98563846B0D@gmail.com> Yes, it is a card game but isn't on rs games yet. Amanda > On Aug 5, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Andrew wrote: > > Hi i never have and what is this pgame exactly about and what is it > is it a card game so you all are aware there is a excessible game > site called rsgames. if anybody is interested they can go to > www.rsgames.org. you can either play as web through the web site and > also you can download the rsgames client. and it is excessible. and > you said the game is called president > >> On 8/5/14, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: >> >> >> Hi everyone, >> Have any of you played the card game president on spigo.com or any other >> program? If so, does it work?nda >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com >> From ligne14 at verizon.net Tue Aug 5 18:17:54 2014 From: ligne14 at verizon.net (Sami Osborne) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 14:17:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Spigo to play president Message-ID: <0N9U00DKJIUETE40@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net> Hi Amanda, I've never heard of this game or this site before, but if you say it exists, I might want to give it a shot. Andrew is also right about Rs Games, which I have on my computer. There is also another client for playing card games. It is called Quentin C's Playroom, which I personally think is better than Rs Games because it has more games and features. Maybe you'll want to check that out as well, Amanda. Note: the developer of this platform is not a native English speaker. The primary language is French, which is the developer's native language. I just thought you would want to know this. Anyone who wants to try it out should go to wwwddqcsalonddnet. As for your game: President, personally I've never heard of it and I'm not sure if anybody proposed to add it to either Rs Games or Quentin C's Playroom. Thanks, Sami. ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda via nabs-l wrote: Hi i never have and what is this pgame exactly about and what is it is it a card game so you all are aware there is a excessible game site called rsgames. if anybody is interested they can go to www.rsgames.org. you can either play as web through the web site and also you can download the rsgames client. and it is excessible. and you said the game is called president On 8/5/14, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: Hi everyone, Have any of you played the card game president on spigo.com or any other program? If so, does it work?nda _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40 gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver izon.net From cape.amanda at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 18:21:07 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (Amanda Cape) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 14:21:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Spigo to play president In-Reply-To: <0N9U00DKJIUETE40@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0N9U00DKJIUETE40@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: I recently downloaded Quentin C's playroom. I have not figured out how to use it yet though. It seems kind of confusing. I have not suggested adding this game but I would like to. I will look in to how to do this now. On 8/5/14, Sami Osborne wrote: > Hi Amanda, > > I've never heard of this game or this site before, but if you say > it exists, I might want to give it a shot. > > Andrew is also right about Rs Games, which I have on my computer. > There is also another client for playing card games. It is > called Quentin C's Playroom, which I personally think is better > than Rs Games because it has more games and features. Maybe > you'll want to check that out as well, Amanda. > Note: the developer of this platform is not a native English > speaker. The primary language > is French, which is the developer's native language. > I just thought you would want to know this. > > Anyone who wants to try it out should go to wwwddqcsalonddnet. > > As for your game: President, personally I've never heard of it > and I'm not sure if anybody proposed to add it to either Rs Games > or Quentin C's Playroom. > > Thanks, > > Sami. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Amanda via nabs-l To: Andrew Date sent: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 13:59:13 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Spigo to play president > > Yes, it is a card game but isn't on rs games yet. > > Amanda > > On Aug 5, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Andrew wrote: > > Hi i never have and what is this pgame exactly about and what > is it > is it a card game so you all are aware there is a excessible > game > site called rsgames. if anybody is interested they can go to > www.rsgames.org. you can either play as web through the web > site and > also you can download the rsgames client. and it is excessible. > and > you said the game is called president > > On 8/5/14, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > Have any of you played the card game president on spigo.com or > any other > program? If so, does it work?nda > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver > izon.net > From codeofdusk at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 18:37:33 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 14:37:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible With Screen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? In-Reply-To: <2697A9727261484ABE8638525604373B@Helga> References: <2697A9727261484ABE8638525604373B@Helga> Message-ID: <000401cfb0dc$531f2f00$f95d8d00$@gmail.com> Replies inline. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 10:41 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible With Screen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, how do I know or check if a website is accessible with an Screen reader? For instance, JAWS, NVDA, Windows Eyes, and many others! Try it. Do all controls read properly? Can they be focused with the screen reader? Activated? If the site contains dynamic content, is it read out properly? Are images properly labeled? Do things like meta refresh, etc make it difficult to focus controls with a keyboard? Does the site have loud, auto-playing sound that could play over the screen reader making it hard for the user to hear the screen reader well enough to stop the sound? And if it is not, how can I make it accessible in order to work with them? Be sure that all images are properly labeled. This can be done with the alt attribute, like so : insert description here If your description is more than about three sentences, you'll probably want to have two descriptions, a short description, and a long description in a separate HTML document, like so : short description here It is important to have both short and long description, as some browsers don't support long descriptions. If you have links or buttons with images for labels, don't forget those images need alt tags as well! Don't use Flash. In addition to the fact that it doesn't work on mobile devices, it doesn't work with screen readers. Use HTML5 instead, 99% of your users are on modern browsers and the other 1% need to upgrade. Don't have auto-playing sound. Test your site regularly with a screen reader. NVDA, available at http://nvda.sf.net and Chrome Vox available in the Chrome Web Store are good choices. Let me Google "making websites accessible" for you (this info should be helpful ): https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=making+websites+accessible I’m just wondering! I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 From mikgephart at icloud.com Tue Aug 5 19:51:09 2014 From: mikgephart at icloud.com (Mikayla Gephart) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 15:51:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible With Screen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? In-Reply-To: <000401cfb0dc$531f2f00$f95d8d00$@gmail.com> References: <2697A9727261484ABE8638525604373B@Helga> <000401cfb0dc$531f2f00$f95d8d00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: What do you mean? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 5, 2014, at 2:37 PM, "Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l" wrote: > > Replies inline. > > Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 10:41 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible With Screen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? > > Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, how do I know or check if a website is accessible with an Screen reader? For instance, JAWS, NVDA, Windows Eyes, and many others! > Try it. Do all controls read properly? Can they be focused with the screen reader? Activated? > If the site contains dynamic content, is it read out properly? > Are images properly labeled? > Do things like meta refresh, etc make it difficult to focus controls with a keyboard? > Does the site have loud, auto-playing sound that could play over the screen reader making it hard for the user to hear the screen reader well enough to stop the sound? > And if it is not, how can I make it accessible in order to work with them? > Be sure that all images are properly labeled. This can be done with the alt attribute, like so : > insert description here > If your description is more than about three sentences, you'll probably want to have two descriptions, a short description, and a long description in a separate HTML document, like so : > short description here > It is important to have both short and long description, as some browsers don't support long descriptions. > If you have links or buttons with images for labels, don't forget those images need alt tags as well! > Don't use Flash. In addition to the fact that it doesn't work on mobile devices, it doesn't work with screen readers. Use HTML5 instead, 99% of your users are on modern browsers and the other 1% need to upgrade. > Don't have auto-playing sound. > Test your site regularly with a screen reader. NVDA, available at http://nvda.sf.net and Chrome Vox available in the Chrome Web Store are good choices. > Let me Google "making websites accessible" for you (this info should be helpful ): > https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=making+websites+accessible > > I’m just wondering! I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com From codeofdusk at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 20:01:27 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 16:01:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible With Screen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? In-Reply-To: References: <2697A9727261484ABE8638525604373B@Helga> <000401cfb0dc$531f2f00$f95d8d00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001c01cfb0e8$0bd8c2d0$238a4870$@gmail.com> I replied within the text of the original message as opposed to replying above it as I'm doing now. Just read below the -----Original Message----- line. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Mikayla Gephart [mailto:mikgephart at icloud.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2014 3:51 PM To: Bill K. Dengler; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible With Screen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? What do you mean? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 5, 2014, at 2:37 PM, "Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l" wrote: > > Replies inline. > > Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via > nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 10:41 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible With Screen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? > > Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, how do I know or check if a website is accessible with an Screen reader? For instance, JAWS, NVDA, Windows Eyes, and many others! > Try it. Do all controls read properly? Can they be focused with the screen reader? Activated? > If the site contains dynamic content, is it read out properly? > Are images properly labeled? > Do things like meta refresh, etc make it difficult to focus controls with a keyboard? > Does the site have loud, auto-playing sound that could play over the screen reader making it hard for the user to hear the screen reader well enough to stop the sound? > And if it is not, how can I make it accessible in order to work with them? > Be sure that all images are properly labeled. This can be done with the alt attribute, like so : > insert description here > If your description is more than about three sentences, you'll probably want to have two descriptions, a short description, and a long description in a separate HTML document, like so : > short description here longdesc="/path/to/my/longdesc.htm"> > It is important to have both short and long description, as some browsers don't support long descriptions. > If you have links or buttons with images for labels, don't forget those images need alt tags as well! > Don't use Flash. In addition to the fact that it doesn't work on mobile devices, it doesn't work with screen readers. Use HTML5 instead, 99% of your users are on modern browsers and the other 1% need to upgrade. > Don't have auto-playing sound. > Test your site regularly with a screen reader. NVDA, available at http://nvda.sf.net and Chrome Vox available in the Chrome Web Store are good choices. > Let me Google "making websites accessible" for you (this info should be helpful ): > https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=making+websites+accessible > > I’m just wondering! I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of > Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that > whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John > 3:16 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40iclou > d.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Aug 6 15:32:46 2014 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 11:32:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible WithScreen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? In-Reply-To: <2697A9727261484ABE8638525604373B@Helga> References: <2697A9727261484ABE8638525604373B@Helga> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helga via nabs-l" To: Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 10:41 PM Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible WithScreen Readers,and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list Helga, What websight is it? RJ> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > From codeofdusk at gmail.com Wed Aug 6 16:10:57 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 12:10:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible WithScreen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? In-Reply-To: References: <2697A9727261484ABE8638525604373B@Helga> Message-ID: <019c01cfb191$028971d0$079c5570$@gmail.com> Since she wants to know how to make them accessible, I'm assuming her own and wrote my reply as such. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 11:33 AM To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible WithScreen Readers, and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helga via nabs-l" To: Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 10:41 PM Subject: [nabs-l] How do I know or Check if Websites are Accessible WithScreen Readers,and how do I make a Website Accessible in order to work with Them? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list Helga, What websight is it? RJ> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu > r%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From internetradioentertainer at gmail.com Wed Aug 6 21:32:41 2014 From: internetradioentertainer at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 17:32:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] OT: I Want To Share My Love Of A Cappella Music With You On My A Cappella Show Tonight Message-ID: <53E29EF9.3000503@gmail.com> Hi Everyone! I remember about a year ago when I told people I wanted to do aa show with nothing but a cappella music. Some thought it might work. Others said, "Nah it won't do well." And others had no clue how it would do. A year or so later, many who didn't believe in the show concept love it. So whether you've never heard this show before, aren't familiar with a cappella music, or whether you love this kind of sound, I'm inviting you to join me tonight at 7 PM eastern on http://the-bell.net/listen to hear my weekly show A Cappellas Anonymous. You'll hear everything from country to pop and more put together by both college level and professional level a cappella groups. During the show, you're always welcome to contact me via skype at daviddunphyradio via twitter at crazyyetfun2014 or via telephone at 516-945-9165 So if you've heard this show, jtune in to hear some great songs, including many of the newest editions to a growing music library with your favorites sprinkled in. And if you've never heard this kind of music or my show before, whether you're having dinner, browsing the web, or what ever, tune in at http://the-bell.net/listen and give it a listen. You can also hear the stream by putting the following into your favorite media player of choice: http://199.180.72.17:9880 No matter how you tune in, hope you'll be there to hear some great a cappella music! From David Dunphy From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Aug 6 22:47:11 2014 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 17:47:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA References: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> Message-ID: Hi, Maybe you can help me. I am trying to download NVDA in order to create a portable version for myself, but when I go to the website, I am having issues finding the download. Maybe I am doing something wrong. I go to the sight, and there is a messsage asking if I want to give a donation, and I click the link that says, "not now," and continue to the next page. I look for the download button to start, but get nothing. Please help! Thanks, Gloria ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Coleman via nabs-l" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA > Hi all, > If anyone needs help, I would be glad to help. It is a fairly simple > process. If either of you need to Skype, or talk on the phone while you > are doing this, I would be glad to do that. > > > Ashley Coleman, > > > >> On Aug 4, 2014, at 22:59, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi Everyone! How are you all again? I just wanted to ask you, can anyone >> here help me download NVDA into my computer, and also help me put it in >> my Thumb drive in order to use it in others people computer as well? I >> will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! since I don’t >> want to mess with my laptop computer! LOL! Hope to hear from you soon. >> Thanks and God bless! >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > From matt.dierckens at me.com Wed Aug 6 22:57:16 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 18:57:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: References: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> Message-ID: Hi Gloria. After you click the "Skip donation and download, it will skip the page and start to ask you if you want to run or save the file. Press alt N if you're using Internet explorer. Did you by chance listen to that file that I sent out? If you need any extra help don't hesitate to reply or call me. Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ On Aug 6, 2014, at 18:47, Gloria G via nabs-l wrote: > Hi, > Maybe you can help me. I am trying to download NVDA in order to create a portable version for myself, but when I go to the website, I am having issues finding the download. Maybe I am doing something wrong. I go to the sight, and there is a messsage asking if I want to give a donation, and I click the link that says, "not now," and continue to the next page. I look for the download button to start, but get nothing. Please help! > Thanks, > Gloria > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Coleman via nabs-l" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 9:44 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA > > >> Hi all, >> If anyone needs help, I would be glad to help. It is a fairly simple process. If either of you need to Skype, or talk on the phone while you are doing this, I would be glad to do that. >> >> >> Ashley Coleman, >> >> >> >>> On Aug 4, 2014, at 22:59, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> Hi Everyone! How are you all again? I just wanted to ask you, can anyone here help me download NVDA into my computer, and also help me put it in my Thumb drive in order to use it in others people computer as well? I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! since I don’t want to mess with my laptop computer! LOL! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! >>> Helga Schreiber >>> >>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students >>> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >>> >>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>> >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From internetradioentertainer at gmail.com Wed Aug 6 23:15:12 2014 From: internetradioentertainer at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 19:15:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Change To The Link For Tuning In To A Cappellas Anonymous Message-ID: <53E2B700.90004@gmail.com> Hi All! If you want to hear A Cappellas Anonymous tonight, the link has been changed due to a technical problem with our other affiliate. Listen at http://www.wdjm3.com/player and click the play link to tune in. Enjoy! From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 01:23:42 2014 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 21:23:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: References: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> Message-ID: <9A7114662C644966B6C6F368464992C5@robinaPC> Hay Helga, Did you get help with NVDA? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gloria G via nabs-l" To: "Ashley Coleman" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA > Hi, > Maybe you can help me. I am trying to download NVDA in order to create a > portable version for myself, but when I go to the website, I am having > issues finding the download. Maybe I am doing something wrong. I go to the > sight, and there is a messsage asking if I want to give a donation, and I > click the link that says, "not now," and continue to the next page. I look > for the download button to start, but get nothing. Please help! > Thanks, > Gloria > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Coleman via nabs-l" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 9:44 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA > > >> Hi all, >> If anyone needs help, I would be glad to help. It is a fairly simple >> process. If either of you need to Skype, or talk on the phone while you >> are doing this, I would be glad to do that. >> >> >> Ashley Coleman, >> >> >> >>> On Aug 4, 2014, at 22:59, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> Hi Everyone! How are you all again? I just wanted to ask you, can anyone >>> here help me download NVDA into my computer, and also help me put it in >>> my Thumb drive in order to use it in others people computer as well? I >>> will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! since I don’t >>> want to mess with my laptop computer! LOL! Hope to hear from you soon. >>> Thanks and God bless! >>> Helga Schreiber >>> >>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >>> Blind Students >>> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >>> >>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>> >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >>> 3:16 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 01:50:01 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 21:50:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA In-Reply-To: <9A7114662C644966B6C6F368464992C5@robinaPC> References: <026B6B44672E49F19A9B515E01A58A33@Helga> <9A7114662C644966B6C6F368464992C5@robinaPC> Message-ID: Hey! RJ! I didn't get help with NVDA yet? My friend! By the way, what are you up to now? Just curious! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) t Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students. Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 6, 2014, at 9:23 PM, RJ Sandefur via nabs-l wrote: > > Hay Helga, Did you get help with NVDA? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gloria G via nabs-l" > To: "Ashley Coleman" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 6:47 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA > > >> Hi, >> Maybe you can help me. I am trying to download NVDA in order to create a portable version for myself, but when I go to the website, I am having issues finding the download. Maybe I am doing something wrong. I go to the sight, and there is a messsage asking if I want to give a donation, and I click the link that says, "not now," and continue to the next page. I look for the download button to start, but get nothing. Please help! >> Thanks, >> Gloria >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Coleman via nabs-l" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 9:44 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NVDA >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> If anyone needs help, I would be glad to help. It is a fairly simple process. If either of you need to Skype, or talk on the phone while you are doing this, I would be glad to do that. >>> >>> >>> Ashley Coleman, >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 4, 2014, at 22:59, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Everyone! How are you all again? I just wanted to ask you, can anyone here help me download NVDA into my computer, and also help me put it in my Thumb drive in order to use it in others people computer as well? I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this! since I don’t want to mess with my laptop computer! LOL! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! >>>> Helga Schreiber >>>> >>>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >>>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students >>>> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >>>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >>>> >>>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>>> >>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From lilliepennington at fuse.net Thu Aug 7 03:15:35 2014 From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 23:15:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Help with not being able to sign in to skype Message-ID: <001201cfb1ed$db60e680$9222b380$@net> Hi I have been attempting to sign into skype since about 5:30 this afternoon with no success. I have uninstalled and reinstalled the skype software several times, as well as restarting my computer. I somehow ended up with a version of skype 4, and not sure how this happened. I get a message about skype being unable to connect. Any help on resolving this issue would be very appreciated. Thanks From jhud7789 at outlook.com Thu Aug 7 06:49:54 2014 From: jhud7789 at outlook.com (Joeph Hudson) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 01:49:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Help with not being able to sign in to skype In-Reply-To: <001201cfb1ed$db60e680$9222b380$@net> References: <001201cfb1ed$db60e680$9222b380$@net> Message-ID: Hi Lilly, I was having some same similar issues I want ahead and just changed my password and was able to sign in. This was just after some installing Skype on a new computer. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 6, 2014, at 10:15 PM, "Lillie Pennington via nabs-l" wrote: > > Hi > > > > I have been attempting to sign into skype since about 5:30 this afternoon > with no success. I have uninstalled and reinstalled the skype software > several times, as well as restarting my computer. I somehow ended up with a > version of skype 4, and not sure how this happened. I get a message about > skype being unable to connect. > > Any help on resolving this issue would be very appreciated. > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 13:43:27 2014 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Bacchus) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:43:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Preparing for The Nfb Training Centers Message-ID: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> Dear Nabs Members, I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. From bethslists at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 14:05:50 2014 From: bethslists at gmail.com (Beth Taurasi) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 08:05:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Help with not being able to sign in to skype Message-ID: <53e387c3.4a3e320a.2439.ffffc424@mx.google.com> If you want to download Skype, you can go to www.skype.com and download the program that way. Then set it up and resign in. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Lillie Pennington via nabs-l Is there any way for the braillenote to read PPT files. I know that with the latest version of KeySoft running on an apex, it can read ptx. But what about Ptt? From amc05111 at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 19:59:09 2014 From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley and Landon Coleman) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 15:59:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote and ppt files In-Reply-To: <53e3d9f2.a535ec0a.0ec7.5d78@mx.google.com> References: <53e3d9f2.a535ec0a.0ec7.5d78@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <53E3DA8D.4090104@gmail.com> Hi there, I have testen this and the Apex will only open PPTX files. Ashley On 8/7/2014 3:55 PM, Sophie Trist via nabs-l wrote: > Is there any way for the braillenote to read PPT files. I know that > with the latest version of KeySoft running on an apex, it can read > ptx. But what about Ptt? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com -- Thank you Ashley Coleman Phone: 910-549-9306. Email: amc05111 at gmail.com Blinkie Chicks Social Media Manager http://www.blinkiechicks.com/ From marissat789 at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 20:03:53 2014 From: marissat789 at gmail.com (Marissa Tejeda) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 13:03:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote and ppt files Message-ID: <53e3dbaa.61ae440a.3559.1860@mx.google.com> Hi, No, unfortunately this is not possible. If you need to look at a power-point on the Apex, it has to be pptx. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist via nabs-l Do any of you know of any good accessible tablits other than apple? RJ From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Aug 7 20:20:16 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 16:20:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible tablits In-Reply-To: <6BF8994D7AB240B28C7B033B8A631864@robinaPC> References: <6BF8994D7AB240B28C7B033B8A631864@robinaPC> Message-ID: hi, many tablets are now accessible but apple is the lead. The nexis 7 and windows tablets are accessible. Windows uses narrator now but you can also load jaws or any screen reader on a windows 7 tablet or later. Jaws supports touch screen gestures on a windows 8 tablet. So, you can use the touch screen more if you want to as opposed to using a keyboard. I recommend listening to the webinar by freedom scientific on tablets. It’s a great overview and demo on what a tablet is and some common commands. Some tablets have pull out keyboards, but most do not. I think the title is the Simplicity of tablets. If interested, I can find the link and let you know. Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: RJ Sandefur via nabs-l Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2014 4:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible tablits Do any of you know of any good accessible tablits other than apple? RJ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 21:16:34 2014 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 17:16:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible tablits In-Reply-To: <6BF8994D7AB240B28C7B033B8A631864@robinaPC> References: <6BF8994D7AB240B28C7B033B8A631864@robinaPC> Message-ID: If you have a JAWS license, Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 7, 2014, at 4:08 PM, RJ Sandefur via nabs-l wrote: > > Do any of you know of any good accessible tablits other than apple? RJ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com the windows surface Pro three is not a bad choice. I don't have direct experience yet, but I plan to get one when I get my financial aid refund. From codeofdusk at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 01:12:33 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill Dengler(iOS)) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 21:12:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote and ppt files In-Reply-To: <53e3d9f2.a535ec0a.0ec7.5d78@mx.google.com> References: <53e3d9f2.a535ec0a.0ec7.5d78@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4F38949B-4F4F-4155-B6C4-8EBD4A5A51E3@gmail.com> Try opening the file on a computer running at least office 2007, then save the file as a PPTX. Then you should be able to open it. Bill Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 7, 2014, at 15:55, Sophie Trist via nabs-l wrote: > > Is there any way for the braillenote to read PPT files. I know that with the latest version of KeySoft running on an apex, it can read ptx. But what about Ptt? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 05:14:48 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 01:14:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Downloading Songs From Youtube for Free into Your iPhone! Message-ID: Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that the subject line says it all! I just wanted to ask you, do anyone here know how to download songs from youtube for free in order to listen to them into your iPhone? Just wondering! If you do, I will really appreciate it a lot!, if you can help me with this! by skype!, please? I really like to listen to music, and I sometimes I really don’t have the money to buy my favorite songs that I like in the iTunes store! in order to listen to them on my iPhone 5. So that is why I would like to learn how to download them from youtube! However, as a blind person I never did that, and I’m actually scare in doing itbecause I only saw sighted people doing it before, but I never saw a blind person doing that before! I hope you don’t find this question weird! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! P.S. I just wanted to tell you that I use JAWS 14. Thanks again! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wlEmoticon-smile[1].png Type: image/png Size: 1046 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wlEmoticon-winkingsmile[1].png Type: image/png Size: 1135 bytes Desc: not available URL: From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 05:19:43 2014 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (Minh Ha) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 01:19:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote and ppt files In-Reply-To: <4F38949B-4F4F-4155-B6C4-8EBD4A5A51E3@gmail.com> References: <53e3d9f2.a535ec0a.0ec7.5d78@mx.google.com> <4F38949B-4F4F-4155-B6C4-8EBD4A5A51E3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48C1A53F-1862-405A-87B2-D3A134FFEC01@gmail.com> I echo bills suggestion just open the ppt Gil on your computer ad resale it as a pptx. I've hAd to do this a few times and it's always worked for me. Minh Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 7, 2014, at 9:12 PM, "Bill Dengler\(iOS\) via nabs-l" wrote: > > Try opening the file on a computer running at least office 2007, then save the file as a PPTX. Then you should be able to open it. > > Bill > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 7, 2014, at 15:55, Sophie Trist via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Is there any way for the braillenote to read PPT files. I know that with the latest version of KeySoft running on an apex, it can read ptx. But what about Ptt? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com From chapman.candicel at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 06:32:37 2014 From: chapman.candicel at gmail.com (Candice Chapman) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 01:32:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Preparing for The Nfb Training Centers In-Reply-To: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Roanna, You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. Best if luck with your research. Best, Candice Chapman Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l wrote: > > Dear Nabs Members, > > I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com From codeofdusk at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 10:45:37 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill Dengler(iOS)) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 06:45:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Downloading Songs From Youtube for Free into Your iPhone! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Please stop asking us to help you pirate things. It probably is against list policy. Bill Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2014, at 01:14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that the subject line says it all! I just wanted to ask you, do anyone here know how to download songs from youtube for free in order to listen to them into your iPhone? Just wondering! If you do, I will really appreciate it a lot!, if you can help me with this! by skype!, please? I really like to listen to music, and I sometimes I really don’t have the money to buy my favorite songs that I like in the iTunes store! in order to listen to them on my iPhone 5. So that is why I would like to learn how to download them from youtube! However, as a blind person I never did that, and I’m actually scare in doing itbecause I only saw sighted people doing it before, but I never saw a blind person doing that before! I hope you don’t find this question weird! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! > P.S. I just wanted to tell you that I use JAWS 14. Thanks again! > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students > Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From gpaikens at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 13:53:46 2014 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 09:53:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo Message-ID: Hello all, Are any of you using Edmodo for any of your classes? I'm teaching at a new school this year and they use it for all kinds of stuff. Both I and the blind students I teach will need to get familiar with using the platform. On first glance, it doesn't seem as accessible as it could be. When I click on items, I rarely get the result I expected, but maybe I just don't know what I'm doing yet. I would love to hear from any students who have been using Edmodo successfully. Thanks, Greg From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 17:55:39 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 13:55:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Preparing for The Nfb Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide dog? Thanks! Sofia On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Roanna, > > You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but > another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The > center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. > > Best if luck with your research. > > Best, > > Candice Chapman > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Dear Nabs Members, >> >> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of >> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of >> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out >> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before >> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories >> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > From matt.dierckens at me.com Fri Aug 8 19:21:56 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 15:21:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Preparing for The Nfb Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4FC03814-20A2-4E3C-BB3D-A2B8D2C53774@me.com> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and obviously to relieve the dog. Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > Hi > > I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go > to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I > need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving > independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't > let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. > I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't > just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from > considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone > have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide > dog? > > Thanks! > > Sofia > > On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Roanna, >> >> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but >> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The >> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. >> >> Best if luck with your research. >> >> Best, >> >> Candice Chapman >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Nabs Members, >>> >>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of >>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of >>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out >>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before >>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories >>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From jim.hulme at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 19:29:31 2014 From: jim.hulme at gmail.com (James Hulme) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 15:29:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible tablits In-Reply-To: References: <6BF8994D7AB240B28C7B033B8A631864@robinaPC> Message-ID: hello all, here is the link for the Webinar called The Simplicity of Using Tablets- The Power of JAWS 15 an archive of the Webinar; an .mp3 file or an html versions are available. Please click the link that best suits your needs. Simplicity of using Tablets Webinar Hope that helps. Have a great weekend!!! Jimmy Hulme jim.hulme at gmail.com On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Jewel via nabs-l wrote: > If you have a JAWS license, > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 7, 2014, at 4:08 PM, RJ Sandefur via nabs-l > wrote: > > > > Do any of you know of any good accessible tablits other than apple? RJ > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > the windows surface Pro three is not a bad choice. I don't have direct > experience yet, but I plan to get one when I get my financial aid refund. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jim.hulme%40gmail.com > From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Fri Aug 8 19:58:31 2014 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 15:58:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E92D3B4-4876-4A35-9A72-5957F449A41B@aol.com> Hi Greg, I use edmodo and love it. It is similar to Facebook in the organization. What screen reader are you using? Jaws works very well with the LMS for both teachers and students. I have also used Edmodo on an IPad with VoiceOver signed in as both a teacher and a student. I found it to be pretty easy to navigate. Do you have any specific questions? I would be more then happy to help In any way I can. Bridget Sent from my iPad > On Aug 8, 26 Heisei, at 9:53 AM, Greg Aikens via nabs-l wrote: > > Hello all, > Are any of you using Edmodo for any of your classes? I'm teaching at a > new school this year and they use it for all kinds of stuff. Both I > and the blind students I teach will need to get familiar with using > the platform. On first glance, it doesn't seem as accessible as it > could be. When I click on items, I rarely get the result I expected, > but maybe I just don't know what I'm doing yet. > > I would love to hear from any students who have been using Edmodo successfully. > > Thanks, > > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 20:38:26 2014 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 13:38:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] (O/T)Sharing some exciting news... Message-ID: Greetings NABS, I hope everyone has had a very enjoyable Summer. As many of you know, I have mentioned on a number of occasions that I have been organizing for a community service division on the National Level. many of you know we were to have a meeting on July 3 in the evening at our national convention, where I did see some familiar faces from the NABS meeting. After a successful organizing meeting where a constitution was settled upon and officers elected, the National Board of Directors voted on and adopted the National Federation of the Blind Community Service Division into the Federation. I am happy to share this news with you, and invite you to be a part of the work we will do. I am very excited to educate the public about blindness and the Federation through service and advocacy. If you are interested in more I would hope you might contact me off-list text /call at (415)215–9809 or e-mail at dsmithnfb at gmail.com many thanks and Back to the NABS- related listinG! Darian From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 22:00:48 2014 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 18:00:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (O/T)Sharing some exciting news... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2324DAC1-AAB1-4CD2-9D69-0F1374AD62FC@gmail.com> Darian, That is wonderful news! I look forward to hearing about and participating in all the great work which this new division will undertake. Would you mind sending us the slate of officers who were elected? Thanks, Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2014, at 4:38 PM, Darian Smith via nabs-l wrote: > > Greetings NABS, > I hope everyone has had a very enjoyable Summer. > As many of you know, I have mentioned on a number of occasions that I have been organizing for a community service division on the National Level. > many of you know we were to have a meeting on July 3 in the evening at our national convention, where I did see some familiar faces from the NABS meeting. > > After a successful organizing meeting where a constitution was settled upon and officers elected, the National Board of Directors voted on and adopted the National Federation of the Blind Community Service Division into the Federation. > I am happy to share this news with you, and invite you to be a part of the work we will do. I am very excited to educate the public about blindness and the Federation through service and advocacy. > If you are interested in more I would hope you might contact me off-list > text /call at (415)215–9809 or e-mail at dsmithnfb at gmail.com > many thanks and Back to the NABS- related listinG! > Darian > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 01:58:44 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 21:58:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <4FC03814-20A2-4E3C-BB3D-A2B8D2C53774@me.com> References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> <4FC03814-20A2-4E3C-BB3D-A2B8D2C53774@me.com> Message-ID: That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working relationship with a dog. Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > > You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. > You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and obviously to relieve the dog. > > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >> dog? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sofia >> >>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Roanna, >>> >>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but >>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The >>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. >>> >>> Best if luck with your research. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Candice Chapman >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of >>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of >>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out >>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before >>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories >>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > From lilliepennington at fuse.net Sat Aug 9 02:07:11 2014 From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 22:07:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> <4FC03814-20A2-4E3C-BB3D-A2B8D2C53774@me.com> Message-ID: <000001cfb376$a1a3c090$e4eb41b0$@net> Hi Sophia, I have neither attended an NFB training center nor have a guide dog, but that does seem rather odd to me that you couldn't use your primary navigation (in this case your dog) during your training. One thing I would suggest is contacting the directors of each of the NFB centers. I am not disputing the information given on this topic, just saying that it sounds rather odd. HTH and best of luck -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via nabs-l Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 9:59 PM To: Matthew Dierckens Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working relationship with a dog. Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > > You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. > You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and obviously to relieve the dog. > > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course > available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >> dog? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sofia >> >>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Roanna, >>> >>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>> important, but another important place to start is the NFB center >>> you want to attend. The center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. >>> >>> Best if luck with your research. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Candice Chapman >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>>> one of the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>>> attending one of these facilities with your vocational rehab >>>> counselor since they are out of state. I'm assuming that each of >>>> you spoke to your families before planning to attend one of these >>>> centers. I'd like to hear your stories about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candice >>>> l%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40 >> me.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse. net From lilliepennington at fuse.net Sat Aug 9 02:11:03 2014 From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 22:11:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Help with not being able to sign in to skype In-Reply-To: <53e387c3.4a3e320a.2439.ffffc424@mx.google.com> References: <53e387c3.4a3e320a.2439.ffffc424@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000101cfb377$2d3398b0$879aca10$@net> Thank you everyone to your responses and willingness to help both on and off list. I finally figured out and mostly fixed the problem; it turned out to be a problem with my antivirus software, which I had to remove and reinstall, but I'm up and running again. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Beth Taurasi [mailto:bethslists at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2014 10:06 AM To: Lillie Pennington; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: re: [nabs-l] Help with not being able to sign in to skype If you want to download Skype, you can go to www.skype.com and download the program that way. Then set it up and resign in. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Lillie Pennington via nabs-l References: <53e387c3.4a3e320a.2439.ffffc424@mx.google.com> <000101cfb377$2d3398b0$879aca10$@net> Message-ID: That's awesome, I'm glad that it's working for you now. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2014, at 9:11 PM, "Lillie Pennington via nabs-l" wrote: > > Thank you everyone to your responses and willingness to help both on and off > list. > > I finally figured out and mostly fixed the problem; it turned out to be a > problem with my antivirus software, which I had to remove and reinstall, but > I'm up and running again. > Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth Taurasi [mailto:bethslists at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2014 10:06 AM > To: Lillie Pennington; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: re: [nabs-l] Help with not being able to sign in to skype > > If you want to download Skype, you can go to www.skype.com and download the > program that way. Then set it up and resign in. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lillie Pennington via nabs-l To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 23:15:35 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Help with not being able to sign in to skype > > Hi > > > > I have been attempting to sign into skype since about 5:30 this afternoon > with no success. I have uninstalled and reinstalled the skype software > several times, as well as restarting my computer. I somehow ended up with a > version of skype 4, and not sure how this happened. I get a message about > skype being unable to connect. > > Any help on resolving this issue would be very appreciated. > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 > gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 02:20:40 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 22:20:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <000001cfb376$a1a3c090$e4eb41b0$@net> References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> <4FC03814-20A2-4E3C-BB3D-A2B8D2C53774@me.com> <000001cfb376$a1a3c090$e4eb41b0$@net> Message-ID: <95878925-CB5A-4BA1-9782-4D223BB52774@gmail.com> I did my own research though and it matches the info here unfortunately. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2014, at 10:07 PM, "Lillie Pennington" wrote: > > Hi Sophia, > > I have neither attended an NFB training center nor have a guide dog, but > that does seem rather odd to me that you couldn't use your primary > navigation (in this case your dog) during your training. One thing I would > suggest is contacting the directors of each of the NFB centers. I am not > disputing the information given on this topic, just saying that it sounds > rather odd. > > HTH and best of luck > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via > nabs-l > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 9:59 PM > To: Matthew Dierckens > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working > relationship with a dog. > > Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >> wrote: >> >> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and > obviously to relieve the dog. >> >> Matthew Dierckens >> Macintosh Trainer >> Blind Access Training >> www.blindaccesstraining.com >> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >> >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>> dog? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Roanna, >>>> >>>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>>> important, but another important place to start is the NFB center >>>> you want to attend. The center can be helpful in assisting with issues > you may have with rehab. >>>> >>>> Best if luck with your research. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Candice Chapman >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>>> >>>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>>>> one of the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>>>> attending one of these facilities with your vocational rehab >>>>> counselor since they are out of state. I'm assuming that each of >>>>> you spoke to your families before planning to attend one of these >>>>> centers. I'd like to hear your stories about preparing to attend an > Nfb training center. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candice >>>>> l%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40 >>> me.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse. > net > > From kwakmiso at aol.com Sat Aug 9 04:34:40 2014 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D181A25E826944-1FD0-BEDB@webmail-va054.sysops.aol.com> Hello, I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB center with a guide dog. I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to contact her. Miso Kwak -----Original Message----- From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l To: Matthew Dierckens Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working relationship with a dog. Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > > You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. > You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and obviously to relieve the dog. > > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >> dog? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sofia >> >>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Roanna, >>> >>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but >>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The >>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. >>> >>> Best if luck with your research. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Candice Chapman >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of >>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of >>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out >>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before >>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories >>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 04:35:47 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:35:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <8D181A25E826944-1FD0-BEDB@webmail-va054.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D181A25E826944-1FD0-BEDB@webmail-va054.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003701cfb38b$6459b360$2d0d1a20$@gmail.com> Colorado is the one that works with Guide dogs that I no of. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 12:35 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Hello, I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB center with a guide dog. I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to contact her. Miso Kwak -----Original Message----- From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l To: Matthew Dierckens Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working relationship with a dog. Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > > You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. > You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and obviously to relieve the dog. > > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >> dog? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sofia >> >>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Roanna, >>> >>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but >>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The >>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. >>> >>> Best if luck with your research. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Candice Chapman >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of >>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of >>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out >>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before >>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories >>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail .com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 04:41:28 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:41:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <8D181A25E826944-1FD0-BEDB@webmail-va054.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D181A25E826944-1FD0-BEDB@webmail-va054.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <80598771-A9B8-47A6-9754-78CEE63C9264@gmail.com> Thanks. If anyone knows anything else I would appreciated. Also if anyone knows anything about any other centers that would be great too :) I'm in an interesting situation right now because I don't really have a counselor to talk to about this. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2014, at 12:34 AM, Miso Kwak via nabs-l wrote: > > Hello, > I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB center with a guide dog. > I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to contact her. > Miso Kwak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > To: Matthew Dierckens > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working relationship with a dog. > > Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >> wrote: >> >> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and > obviously to relieve the dog. >> >> Matthew Dierckens >> Macintosh Trainer >> Blind Access Training >> www.blindaccesstraining.com >> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course > available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >> >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>> dog? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Roanna, >>>> >>>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is > important, but >>>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to > attend. The >>>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with > rehab. >>>> >>>> Best if luck with your research. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Candice Chapman >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>>> >>>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend > one of >>>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss > attending one of >>>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they > are out >>>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families > before >>>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your > stories >>>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 04:43:13 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:43:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <003701cfb38b$6459b360$2d0d1a20$@gmail.com> References: <8D181A25E826944-1FD0-BEDB@webmail-va054.sysops.aol.com> <003701cfb38b$6459b360$2d0d1a20$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Justin, do you know what they do differently? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2014, at 12:35 AM, justin williams via nabs-l wrote: > > Colorado is the one that works with Guide dogs that I no of. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak via > nabs-l > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 12:35 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Hello, > I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB > center with a guide dog. > I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the Blind > did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with her > regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to contact her. > Miso Kwak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > To: Matthew Dierckens > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working > relationship with a dog. > > Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >> wrote: >> >> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and > obviously to relieve the dog. >> >> Matthew Dierckens >> Macintosh Trainer >> Blind Access Training >> www.blindaccesstraining.com >> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course > available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >> >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>> dog? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Roanna, >>>> >>>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is > important, but >>>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to > attend. The >>>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with > rehab. >>>> >>>> Best if luck with your research. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Candice Chapman >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>>> >>>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend > one of >>>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss > attending one of >>>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they > are out >>>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families > before >>>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your > stories >>>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail > .com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From bethslists at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 10:32:56 2014 From: bethslists at gmail.com (Beth Taurasi) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 04:32:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l wrote: Hi Roanna, You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. Best if luck with your research. Best, Candice Chapman Sent from my iPhone On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yea, I'd be interested to know how people handled it since it doesn't sound like I can work with my dog a lot. Beth, that's scary! I wouldn't want to risk that. I'll definitely contact the directors. Sofia Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Beth Taurasi via nabs-l wrote: > > There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Hello, > I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB > center with a guide dog. > I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the > Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with > her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to > contact her. > Miso Kwak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l To: Matthew Dierckens Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working > relationship with a dog. > > Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > > You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. > You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and > obviously to relieve the dog. > > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course > available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > > On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi > > I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go > to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I > need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving > independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't > let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. > I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't > just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from > considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone > have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide > dog? > > Thanks! > > Sofia > > On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Roanna, > > You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is > important, but > another important place to start is the NFB center you want to > attend. The > center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with > rehab. > > Best if luck with your research. > > Best, > > Candice Chapman > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l > wrote: > > Dear Nabs Members, > > I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend > one of > the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss > attending one of > these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they > are out > of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families > before > planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your > stories > about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi > cel%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken > s%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao > l.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 14:39:19 2014 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 10:39:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com> References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <61D2919AE217495281163A73990855A1@robinaPC> My belief is that you can attend a training center, and still be as uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended. If I'm an employer, I am not going to give a rats behind if you went to lcb or not, because I would want to see if you could do the job without having someone hold your hand. The NFB training centers do not in my opinion teach proper social skills training. I've spoke to some of these center graduates via skype, and their social skills in my opinion were poor. Speaking of skype, My computer broke down, so I'm using a back up computer which does not have the ability for skype. I will be getting a windows 8 computer in a few weeks God willing. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" To: "Miso Kwak" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility > of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a > heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Hello, > I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB > center with a guide dog. > I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the > Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with > her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to > contact her. > Miso Kwak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l To: Matthew Dierckens Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working > relationship with a dog. > > Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > > You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. > You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and > obviously to relieve the dog. > > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course > available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > > On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi > > I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go > to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I > need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving > independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't > let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. > I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't > just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from > considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone > have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide > dog? > > Thanks! > > Sofia > > On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Roanna, > > You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is > important, but > another important place to start is the NFB center you want to > attend. The > center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with > rehab. > > Best if luck with your research. > > Best, > > Candice Chapman > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l > wrote: > > Dear Nabs Members, > > I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend > one of > the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss > attending one of > these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they > are out > of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families > before > planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your > stories > about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi > cel%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken > s%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao > l.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From kmaent1 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 14:58:39 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 10:58:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <53e63753.249a320a.33f0.1291@mx.google.com> Dear RJ, I of course agree with you that what matters is not whether you attended a training center or not but whether you can do the job you're being hired to do, or more generally function in life. I haven't attended a training center, so I can't speak to what they do or do not do. I would like to point out, however, that it is not really their job nor is it feasible to teach "proper social skills" in four months while also teaching independent living skills, orientation and mobility, etc. I'm sure you have talked to people who went to one or another training center and have poor social skills, but blind people in general often have poor social skills (because of the way blind people tend to be educated and treated differently from the time they are born among other things). Did you talk to these center graduates both before and after they attended the centers? That sort of comparison would be necessary to know whether attending the centers improved their social skills at all. Even if these people you speak of were as socially inept when they started attending the centers as they were when they graduated, you still can't make the leap to the claim that "you can attend a training center, and still be as uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended" unless they also didn't improve their mobility skills, daily living skills, etc. Best, Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: RJ Sandefur via nabs-l ,"National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" wrote: Hi Roanna, You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. Best if luck with your research. Best, Candice Chapman Sent from my iPhone On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com> <61D2919AE217495281163A73990855A1@robinaPC> Message-ID: <0A939890-B692-4B88-8116-BE96E6A7D9DF@gmail.com> Ok, but I'm not looking for social skills trainimg. I need to improve on things like cooking, navigating unfamiliar areas, and things like that. A center, even if it's not an NFB center would be very helpful. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, RJ Sandefur via nabs-l wrote: > > My belief is that you can attend a training center, and still be as uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended. If I'm an employer, I am not going to give a rats behind if you went to lcb or not, because I would want to see if you could do the job without having someone hold your hand. The NFB training centers do not in my opinion teach proper social skills training. I've spoke to some of these center graduates via skype, and their social skills in my opinion were poor. Speaking of skype, My computer broke down, so I'm using a back up computer which does not have the ability for skype. I will be getting a windows 8 computer in a few weeks God willing. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" > To: "Miso Kwak" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 6:32 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Hello, >> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >> center with a guide dog. >> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >> contact her. >> Miso Kwak >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > To: Matthew Dierckens > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >> relationship with a dog. >> >> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens > wrote: >> >> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >> obviously to relieve the dog. >> >> Matthew Dierckens >> Macintosh Trainer >> Blind Access Training >> www.blindaccesstraining.com >> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >> >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >> dog? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sofia >> >> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Roanna, >> >> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >> important, but >> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >> attend. The >> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >> rehab. >> >> Best if luck with your research. >> >> Best, >> >> Candice Chapman >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >> > wrote: >> >> Dear Nabs Members, >> >> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >> one of >> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >> attending one of >> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >> are out >> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >> before >> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >> stories >> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >> cel%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >> s%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >> l.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 15:03:32 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 11:03:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <53e63753.249a320a.33f0.1291@mx.google.com> References: <53e63753.249a320a.33f0.1291@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7BBE4B5E-8B32-4EA5-AD42-28D5C4BC3AC0@gmail.com> Exactly, I need a place that focuses on independent living skills and mobility, not social skills. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2014, at 10:58 AM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: > > Dear RJ, > > I of course agree with you that what matters is not whether you attended a training center or not but whether you can do the job you're being hired to do, or more generally function in life. I haven't attended a training center, so I can't speak to what they do or do not do. I would like to point out, however, that it is not really their job nor is it feasible to teach "proper social skills" in four months while also teaching independent living skills, orientation and mobility, etc. I'm sure you have talked to people who went to one or another training center and have poor social skills, but blind people in general often have poor social skills (because of the way blind people tend to be educated and treated differently from the time they are born among other things). Did you talk to these center graduates both before and after they attended the centers? That sort of comparison would be necessary to know whether attending the centers improved their social skills at all. Even if these people you speak of were as socially inept when they started attending the centers as they were when they graduated, you still can't make the leap to the claim that "you can attend a training center, and still be as uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended" unless they also didn't improve their mobility skills, daily living skills, etc. > > Best, > Karl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: RJ Sandefur via nabs-l To: "Beth Taurasi" ,"National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 10:39:19 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > My belief is that you can attend a training center, and still be as > uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended. If I'm an employer, I > am not going to give a rats behind if you went to lcb or not, because I > would want to see if you could do the job without having someone hold your > hand. The NFB training centers do not in my opinion teach proper social > skills training. I've spoke to some of these center graduates via skype, and > their social skills in my opinion were poor. Speaking of skype, My computer > broke down, so I'm using a back up computer which does not have the ability > for skype. I will be getting a windows 8 computer in a few weeks God > willing. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" To: "Miso Kwak" ; "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 6:32 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > > There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility > of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a > heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Hello, > I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB > center with a guide dog. > I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the > Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with > her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to > contact her. > Miso Kwak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l To: Matthew Dierckens Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working > relationship with a dog. > > Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > > You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. > You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and > obviously to relieve the dog. > > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course > available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > > On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi > > I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go > to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I > need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving > independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't > let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. > I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't > just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from > considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone > have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide > dog? > > Thanks! > > Sofia > > On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Roanna, > > You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is > important, but > another important place to start is the NFB center you want to > attend. The > center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with > rehab. > > Best if luck with your research. > > Best, > > Candice Chapman > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l > wrote: > > Dear Nabs Members, > > I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend > one of > the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss > attending one of > these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they > are out > of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families > before > planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your > stories > about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi > cel%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken > s%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao > l.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma > il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From matt.dierckens at me.com Sat Aug 9 15:08:49 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:08:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <0A939890-B692-4B88-8116-BE96E6A7D9DF@gmail.com> References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com> <61D2919AE217495281163A73990855A1@robinaPC> <0A939890-B692-4B88-8116-BE96E6A7D9DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C10D329-8440-41F3-AE20-ED7D23A3CEC9@me.com> And that's what you will learn at these training centers, you're there for 6 to 9 months. I would talk to each director of the centers. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2014, at 11:00, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > > Ok, but I'm not looking for social skills trainimg. I need to improve on things like cooking, navigating unfamiliar areas, and things like that. A center, even if it's not an NFB center would be very helpful. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, RJ Sandefur via nabs-l wrote: >> >> My belief is that you can attend a training center, and still be as uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended. If I'm an employer, I am not going to give a rats behind if you went to lcb or not, because I would want to see if you could do the job without having someone hold your hand. The NFB training centers do not in my opinion teach proper social skills training. I've spoke to some of these center graduates via skype, and their social skills in my opinion were poor. Speaking of skype, My computer broke down, so I'm using a back up computer which does not have the ability for skype. I will be getting a windows 8 computer in a few weeks God willing. RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" >> To: "Miso Kwak" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 6:32 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >>> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> Hello, >>> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >>> center with a guide dog. >>> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >>> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >>> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >>> contact her. >>> Miso Kwak >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> To: Matthew Dierckens >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >>> relationship with a dog. >>> >>> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >> wrote: >>> >>> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >>> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >>> obviously to relieve the dog. >>> >>> Matthew Dierckens >>> Macintosh Trainer >>> Blind Access Training >>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>> >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>> dog? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Roanna, >>> >>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>> important, but >>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >>> attend. The >>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >>> rehab. >>> >>> Best if luck with your research. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Candice Chapman >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Nabs Members, >>> >>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>> one of >>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>> attending one of >>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >>> are out >>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >>> before >>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >>> stories >>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >>> cel%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >>> s%40me.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 16:22:04 2014 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 12:22:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <1C10D329-8440-41F3-AE20-ED7D23A3CEC9@me.com> References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com><61D2919AE217495281163A73990855A1@robinaPC><0A939890-B692-4B88-8116-BE96E6A7D9DF@gmail.com> <1C10D329-8440-41F3-AE20-ED7D23A3CEC9@me.com> Message-ID: <3762C77F751D4AB1909AFDF2B8C170BA@robinaPC> The training center I atteded back in 1999, was not the best in the world, but they did require us to take a class on social skills, and it helped me a greate deal! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l" To: "Sofia Gallo" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > And that's what you will learn at these training centers, you're there for > 6 to 9 months. I would talk to each director of the centers. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 9, 2014, at 11:00, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Ok, but I'm not looking for social skills trainimg. I need to improve on >> things like cooking, navigating unfamiliar areas, and things like that. A >> center, even if it's not an NFB center would be very helpful. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, RJ Sandefur via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> My belief is that you can attend a training center, and still be as >>> uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended. If I'm an >>> employer, I am not going to give a rats behind if you went to lcb or >>> not, because I would want to see if you could do the job without having >>> someone hold your hand. The NFB training centers do not in my opinion >>> teach proper social skills training. I've spoke to some of these center >>> graduates via skype, and their social skills in my opinion were poor. >>> Speaking of skype, My computer broke down, so I'm using a back up >>> computer which does not have the ability for skype. I will be getting a >>> windows 8 computer in a few weeks God willing. RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" >>> >>> To: "Miso Kwak" ; "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 6:32 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>>> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the >>>> possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB >>>> friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back >>>> due to traiing. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >>>> center with a guide dog. >>>> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >>>> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >>>> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >>>> contact her. >>>> Miso Kwak >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> To: Matthew Dierckens >>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >>>> relationship with a dog. >>>> >>>> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >>>> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >>>> obviously to relieve the dog. >>>> >>>> Matthew Dierckens >>>> Macintosh Trainer >>>> Blind Access Training >>>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>>> dog? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Roanna, >>>> >>>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>>> important, but >>>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >>>> attend. The >>>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >>>> rehab. >>>> >>>> Best if luck with your research. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Candice Chapman >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>>> one of >>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>>> attending one of >>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >>>> are out >>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >>>> before >>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >>>> stories >>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >>>> cel%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >>>> s%40me.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From jsoro620 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 20:21:00 2014 From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:21:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Analytic Tools Message-ID: <004b01cfb40f$6ff2b580$4fd82080$@gmail.com> Hi, what kind of mind mapping tools, if any, are you guys using to do school work or office tasks? At work I'm encountering situations where I need to be able to arrange and manipulate various factors, and while Excel helps to a degree, it's not always the most flexible option. I've thought of resorting to a Perkins Braille writer, but often I need to be able to arrange factors in a way that the static nature of Braille does not lend itself. There is an abundance of software out there that will allow a person to visually arrange icons in various ways, but these are not accessible to blind people. Anyway, I thought it a good idea to start here since students will no doubt be at the forefront of the latest tricks. I'll post to an educators' list as well, but any other tips and referrals would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.--Joe -- Twitter: @ScribblingJoe Visit my blog: http://joeorozco.com/blog From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Sat Aug 9 20:36:08 2014 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:36:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Analytic Tools In-Reply-To: <004b01cfb40f$6ff2b580$4fd82080$@gmail.com> References: <004b01cfb40f$6ff2b580$4fd82080$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Joe, I recently attended a conference call on preparing and taking the LSAT hosted by the blind lawyers division. Some strategies discussed for conquering the logic section of the test included using pieces from a Braille Scrabble game as well as a chemistry kit with different shapes for different kinds of molecules. Additionally, someone on the call said he was going to see if using chess pieces would help him since he already has these pieces on hand as someone who plays chess. Would any of these ideas work for your situation? There may have been some other ideas discussed, but these were the ones that stuck out the most to me. Hopefully, one of these ideas can help you, or help spur on other ideas that may help you. Warm regards, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 4:21 PM To: 'NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS' Subject: [nabs-l] Analytic Tools Hi, what kind of mind mapping tools, if any, are you guys using to do school work or office tasks? At work I'm encountering situations where I need to be able to arrange and manipulate various factors, and while Excel helps to a degree, it's not always the most flexible option. I've thought of resorting to a Perkins Braille writer, but often I need to be able to arrange factors in a way that the static nature of Braille does not lend itself. There is an abundance of software out there that will allow a person to visually arrange icons in various ways, but these are not accessible to blind people. Anyway, I thought it a good idea to start here since students will no doubt be at the forefront of the latest tricks. I'll post to an educators' list as well, but any other tips and referrals would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.--Joe -- Twitter: @ScribblingJoe Visit my blog: http://joeorozco.com/blog _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From codeofdusk at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 20:44:09 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:44:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <030d01cfb412$ac3b6b60$04b24220$@gmail.com> Edmodo is and has been a huge accessibility nightmare on Windows with NVDA, OS X with Voice Over, Ubuntu Gnu/Linux, iOS, and Android. Basically, don't even try as the Edmodo devs don't seem to care, use a different LMS if possible or work with teachers to have files sent directly to the student. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Aikens via nabs-l Sent: Friday, August 8, 2014 9:54 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo Hello all, Are any of you using Edmodo for any of your classes? I'm teaching at a new school this year and they use it for all kinds of stuff. Both I and the blind students I teach will need to get familiar with using the platform. On first glance, it doesn't seem as accessible as it could be. When I click on items, I rarely get the result I expected, but maybe I just don't know what I'm doing yet. I would love to hear from any students who have been using Edmodo successfully. Thanks, Greg _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Sat Aug 9 21:46:27 2014 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 17:46:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo In-Reply-To: <030d01cfb412$ac3b6b60$04b24220$@gmail.com> References: <030d01cfb412$ac3b6b60$04b24220$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <42E197BD-1A9D-4AEF-BBC0-E1AD1F77A786@aol.com> Hi Bill, I have had no problems with edmodo and I use jaws 15. I've used it as a student and a teacher. I know that sounds weird but,nim an education major and got to test the pages out. I found it was much better than schology. I think I would recommend ebackpack if edmodo does not work. HTH Bridget Sent from my iPad > On Aug 9, 26 Heisei, at 4:44 PM, "Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l" wrote: > > Edmodo is and has been a huge accessibility nightmare on Windows with NVDA, > OS X with Voice Over, Ubuntu Gnu/Linux, iOS, and Android. > Basically, don't even try as the Edmodo devs don't seem to care, use a > different LMS if possible or work with teachers to have files sent directly > to the student. > > Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Aikens via > nabs-l > Sent: Friday, August 8, 2014 9:54 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo > > Hello all, > Are any of you using Edmodo for any of your classes? I'm teaching at a new > school this year and they use it for all kinds of stuff. Both I and the > blind students I teach will need to get familiar with using the platform. On > first glance, it doesn't seem as accessible as it could be. When I click on > items, I rarely get the result I expected, but maybe I just don't know what > I'm doing yet. > > I would love to hear from any students who have been using Edmodo > successfully. > > Thanks, > > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Aug 9 22:03:29 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 18:03:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo In-Reply-To: <42E197BD-1A9D-4AEF-BBC0-E1AD1F77A786@aol.com> References: <030d01cfb412$ac3b6b60$04b24220$@gmail.com> <42E197BD-1A9D-4AEF-BBC0-E1AD1F77A786@aol.com> Message-ID: bridgit, which operating system did you use? tjhat makes a difference. -----Original Message----- From: Bridget Walker via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 5:46 PM To: Bill K. Dengler ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo Hi Bill, I have had no problems with edmodo and I use jaws 15. I've used it as a student and a teacher. I know that sounds weird but,nim an education major and got to test the pages out. I found it was much better than schology. I think I would recommend ebackpack if edmodo does not work. HTH Bridget Sent from my iPad > On Aug 9, 26 Heisei, at 4:44 PM, "Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l" > wrote: > > Edmodo is and has been a huge accessibility nightmare on Windows with > NVDA, > OS X with Voice Over, Ubuntu Gnu/Linux, iOS, and Android. > Basically, don't even try as the Edmodo devs don't seem to care, use a > different LMS if possible or work with teachers to have files sent > directly > to the student. > > Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Aikens > via > nabs-l > Sent: Friday, August 8, 2014 9:54 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo > > Hello all, > Are any of you using Edmodo for any of your classes? I'm teaching at a new > school this year and they use it for all kinds of stuff. Both I and the > blind students I teach will need to get familiar with using the platform. > On > first glance, it doesn't seem as accessible as it could be. When I click > on > items, I rarely get the result I expected, but maybe I just don't know > what > I'm doing yet. > > I would love to hear from any students who have been using Edmodo > successfully. > > Thanks, > > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 23:20:05 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (sofiagallo13 at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 23:20:05 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] =?utf-8?q?Training_centers?= In-Reply-To: <3762C77F751D4AB1909AFDF2B8C170BA@robinaPC> References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com><61D2919AE217495281163A73990855A1@robinaPC><0A939890-B692-4B88-8116-BE96E6A7D9DF@gmail.com> <1C10D329-8440-41F3-AE20-ED7D23A3CEC9@me.com>, <3762C77F751D4AB1909AFDF2B8C170BA@robinaPC> Message-ID: Has anyone ever heard of this center? World Services for the Blind Life skills program Sent from Windows Mail From: Candice Chapman via nabs-l Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎9‎, ‎2014 ‎12‎:‎22‎ ‎PM To: Matthew Dierckens, Candice Chapman via nabs-l The training center I atteded back in 1999, was not the best in the world, but they did require us to take a class on social skills, and it helped me a greate deal! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l" To: "Sofia Gallo" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > And that's what you will learn at these training centers, you're there for > 6 to 9 months. I would talk to each director of the centers. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 9, 2014, at 11:00, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Ok, but I'm not looking for social skills trainimg. I need to improve on >> things like cooking, navigating unfamiliar areas, and things like that. A >> center, even if it's not an NFB center would be very helpful. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, RJ Sandefur via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> My belief is that you can attend a training center, and still be as >>> uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended. If I'm an >>> employer, I am not going to give a rats behind if you went to lcb or >>> not, because I would want to see if you could do the job without having >>> someone hold your hand. The NFB training centers do not in my opinion >>> teach proper social skills training. I've spoke to some of these center >>> graduates via skype, and their social skills in my opinion were poor. >>> Speaking of skype, My computer broke down, so I'm using a back up >>> computer which does not have the ability for skype. I will be getting a >>> windows 8 computer in a few weeks God willing. RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" >>> >>> To: "Miso Kwak" ; "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 6:32 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>>> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the >>>> possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB >>>> friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back >>>> due to traiing. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >>>> center with a guide dog. >>>> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >>>> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >>>> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >>>> contact her. >>>> Miso Kwak >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> To: Matthew Dierckens >>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >>>> relationship with a dog. >>>> >>>> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >>>> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >>>> obviously to relieve the dog. >>>> >>>> Matthew Dierckens >>>> Macintosh Trainer >>>> Blind Access Training >>>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>>> dog? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Roanna, >>>> >>>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>>> important, but >>>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >>>> attend. The >>>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >>>> rehab. >>>> >>>> Best if luck with your research. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Candice Chapman >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>>> one of >>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>>> attending one of >>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >>>> are out >>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >>>> before >>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >>>> stories >>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >>>> cel%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >>>> s%40me.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Aug 9 23:44:30 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 19:44:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com><61D2919AE217495281163A73990855A1@robinaPC><0A939890-B692-4B88-8116-BE96E6A7D9DF@gmail.com><1C10D329-8440-41F3-AE20-ED7D23A3CEC9@me.com>, <3762C77F751D4AB1909AFDF2B8C170BA@robinaPC> Message-ID: <663F6C42B9BE436E8C36B916F8B5B0ED@OwnerPC> yes, I've definitely heard of WSB. I don't recommend it. everyone says the building they have is old and needs better ventalation. besides, they probably have patronizing attitudes. They have job training programs such as the IRS program and desktop technician. I've heard many of the training for jobs isn't bad. The class building is better than the dorms. But, still I wouldn't go there because the living conditions suck. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sofia via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 7:20 PM To: Matthew Dierckens ; Candice Chapman via nabs-l ; RJ Sandefur Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Has anyone ever heard of this center? World Services for the Blind Life skills program Sent from Windows Mail From: Candice Chapman via nabs-l Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎9‎, ‎2014 ‎12‎:‎22‎ ‎PM To: Matthew Dierckens, Candice Chapman via nabs-l The training center I atteded back in 1999, was not the best in the world, but they did require us to take a class on social skills, and it helped me a greate deal! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l" To: "Sofia Gallo" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > And that's what you will learn at these training centers, you're there for > 6 to 9 months. I would talk to each director of the centers. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 9, 2014, at 11:00, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Ok, but I'm not looking for social skills trainimg. I need to improve on >> things like cooking, navigating unfamiliar areas, and things like that. A >> center, even if it's not an NFB center would be very helpful. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, RJ Sandefur via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> My belief is that you can attend a training center, and still be as >>> uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended. If I'm an >>> employer, I am not going to give a rats behind if you went to lcb or >>> not, because I would want to see if you could do the job without having >>> someone hold your hand. The NFB training centers do not in my opinion >>> teach proper social skills training. I've spoke to some of these center >>> graduates via skype, and their social skills in my opinion were poor. >>> Speaking of skype, My computer broke down, so I'm using a back up >>> computer which does not have the ability for skype. I will be getting a >>> windows 8 computer in a few weeks God willing. RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" >>> >>> To: "Miso Kwak" ; "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 6:32 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>>> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the >>>> possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB >>>> friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back >>>> due to traiing. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >>>> center with a guide dog. >>>> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >>>> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >>>> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >>>> contact her. >>>> Miso Kwak >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> To: Matthew Dierckens >>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >>>> relationship with a dog. >>>> >>>> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >>>> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >>>> obviously to relieve the dog. >>>> >>>> Matthew Dierckens >>>> Macintosh Trainer >>>> Blind Access Training >>>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>>> dog? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Roanna, >>>> >>>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>>> important, but >>>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >>>> attend. The >>>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >>>> rehab. >>>> >>>> Best if luck with your research. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Candice Chapman >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>>> one of >>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>>> attending one of >>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >>>> are out >>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >>>> before >>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >>>> stories >>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >>>> cel%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >>>> s%40me.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 23:47:57 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (sofiagallo13 at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 23:47:57 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] =?utf-8?q?Training_centers?= In-Reply-To: <663F6C42B9BE436E8C36B916F8B5B0ED@OwnerPC> References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com><61D2919AE217495281163A73990855A1@robinaPC><0A939890-B692-4B88-8116-BE96E6A7D9DF@gmail.com><1C10D329-8440-41F3-AE20-ED7D23A3CEC9@me.com>, <3762C77F751D4AB1909AFDF2B8C170BA@robinaPC> , <663F6C42B9BE436E8C36B916F8B5B0ED@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4478160708bf4092a36e4e955ea8c9e0@gmail.com> Ashley, do you know anything about their personal adjustment program? Good to know about the living conditions. Thanks 😊 Sent from Windows Mail From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎9‎, ‎2014 ‎7‎:‎44‎ ‎PM To: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com, Candice Chapman via nabs-l yes, I've definitely heard of WSB. I don't recommend it. everyone says the building they have is old and needs better ventalation. besides, they probably have patronizing attitudes. They have job training programs such as the IRS program and desktop technician. I've heard many of the training for jobs isn't bad. The class building is better than the dorms. But, still I wouldn't go there because the living conditions suck. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sofia via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 7:20 PM To: Matthew Dierckens ; Candice Chapman via nabs-l ; RJ Sandefur Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Has anyone ever heard of this center? World Services for the Blind Life skills program Sent from Windows Mail From: Candice Chapman via nabs-l Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎9‎, ‎2014 ‎12‎:‎22‎ ‎PM To: Matthew Dierckens, Candice Chapman via nabs-l The training center I atteded back in 1999, was not the best in the world, but they did require us to take a class on social skills, and it helped me a greate deal! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l" To: "Sofia Gallo" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > And that's what you will learn at these training centers, you're there for > 6 to 9 months. I would talk to each director of the centers. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 9, 2014, at 11:00, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Ok, but I'm not looking for social skills trainimg. I need to improve on >> things like cooking, navigating unfamiliar areas, and things like that. A >> center, even if it's not an NFB center would be very helpful. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, RJ Sandefur via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> My belief is that you can attend a training center, and still be as >>> uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended. If I'm an >>> employer, I am not going to give a rats behind if you went to lcb or >>> not, because I would want to see if you could do the job without having >>> someone hold your hand. The NFB training centers do not in my opinion >>> teach proper social skills training. I've spoke to some of these center >>> graduates via skype, and their social skills in my opinion were poor. >>> Speaking of skype, My computer broke down, so I'm using a back up >>> computer which does not have the ability for skype. I will be getting a >>> windows 8 computer in a few weeks God willing. RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" >>> >>> To: "Miso Kwak" ; "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 6:32 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>>> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the >>>> possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB >>>> friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back >>>> due to traiing. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >>>> center with a guide dog. >>>> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >>>> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >>>> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >>>> contact her. >>>> Miso Kwak >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> To: Matthew Dierckens >>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >>>> relationship with a dog. >>>> >>>> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >>>> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >>>> obviously to relieve the dog. >>>> >>>> Matthew Dierckens >>>> Macintosh Trainer >>>> Blind Access Training >>>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>>> dog? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Roanna, >>>> >>>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>>> important, but >>>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >>>> attend. The >>>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >>>> rehab. >>>> >>>> Best if luck with your research. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Candice Chapman >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>>> one of >>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>>> attending one of >>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >>>> are out >>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >>>> before >>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >>>> stories >>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >>>> cel%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >>>> s%40me.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From gpaikens at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 23:55:01 2014 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 19:55:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo In-Reply-To: <42E197BD-1A9D-4AEF-BBC0-E1AD1F77A786@aol.com> References: <030d01cfb412$ac3b6b60$04b24220$@gmail.com> <42E197BD-1A9D-4AEF-BBC0-E1AD1F77A786@aol.com> Message-ID: <1BD5CCE7-560A-4A0F-85D1-850C70D3FC3A@gmail.com> I’m glad to hear you have had success. While I wouldn’t call my experiences trying to use edmodo a nightmare, I certainly wouldn’t say it is easy to use either. I suspect some of that may be my browser etc. Which browser were you using with Edmodo? It seems to behave differently in Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Chrome. I can see different aspects of the platform using each browser and none of them seems to be more complete than the others. Specific questions I have: How can I locate the link/button to open my settings? I was trying to change my school the other day and had to get another teacher to just click on it for me. Also, is there a way to hide all of the enter new post, alert, assignment, etc.? Is there a way to quickly navigate down to the posts from my groups? How can I find the box to search for particular groups that other teachers have set up? I have my codes but can’t find the box to put them in. When I look at the make a new post box, it has the box, then the field for recipient and possibly subject, but none of those boxes are labelled. Also, after the cancel or send buttons, I see a message that says, “Your message was sent successfully, which is repeated under each kind of message, alert, assignment entry box. This is perplexing because I have not made any posts/sent any messages/created any assignments. That makes me think that my browser isn’t playing nice with the javascript or whatever they are using to write the page. I’ll give it a try on the iPad and see if I have more success there. Thanks for any tips you can give. -Greg On Aug 9, 2014, at 5:46 PM, Bridget Walker via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Bill, > I have had no problems with edmodo and I use jaws 15. I've used it as a student and a teacher. I know that sounds weird but,nim an education major and got to test the pages out. I found it was much better than schology. I think I would recommend ebackpack if edmodo does not work. > HTH > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Aug 9, 26 Heisei, at 4:44 PM, "Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l" wrote: >> >> Edmodo is and has been a huge accessibility nightmare on Windows with NVDA, >> OS X with Voice Over, Ubuntu Gnu/Linux, iOS, and Android. >> Basically, don't even try as the Edmodo devs don't seem to care, use a >> different LMS if possible or work with teachers to have files sent directly >> to the student. >> >> Bill >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Aikens via >> nabs-l >> Sent: Friday, August 8, 2014 9:54 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo >> >> Hello all, >> Are any of you using Edmodo for any of your classes? I'm teaching at a new >> school this year and they use it for all kinds of stuff. Both I and the >> blind students I teach will need to get familiar with using the platform. On >> first glance, it doesn't seem as accessible as it could be. When I click on >> items, I rarely get the result I expected, but maybe I just don't know what >> I'm doing yet. >> >> I would love to hear from any students who have been using Edmodo >> successfully. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Greg >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From codeofdusk at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 00:16:30 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 20:16:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo In-Reply-To: <42E197BD-1A9D-4AEF-BBC0-E1AD1F77A786@aol.com> References: <030d01cfb412$ac3b6b60$04b24220$@gmail.com> <42E197BD-1A9D-4AEF-BBC0-E1AD1F77A786@aol.com> Message-ID: <052e01cfb430$56e7dea0$04b79be0$@gmail.com> I had problems under windows with NVDA, OS X and iOS with VoiceOver, Ubuntu Gnu/Linux with the Gnome screen reader (codename Orca) and Android with Talk Back. Could you perhaps write up a tutorial on how exactly you got things to work? At the moment I have to have my teachers send me their digital assignments outside the platform since I've had nothing but problems. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Bridget Walker [mailto:bridgetawalker13 at aol.com] Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2014 5:46 PM To: Bill K. Dengler; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo Hi Bill, I have had no problems with edmodo and I use jaws 15. I've used it as a student and a teacher. I know that sounds weird but,nim an education major and got to test the pages out. I found it was much better than schology. I think I would recommend ebackpack if edmodo does not work. HTH Bridget Sent from my iPad > On Aug 9, 26 Heisei, at 4:44 PM, "Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l" wrote: > > Edmodo is and has been a huge accessibility nightmare on Windows with > NVDA, OS X with Voice Over, Ubuntu Gnu/Linux, iOS, and Android. > Basically, don't even try as the Edmodo devs don't seem to care, use a > different LMS if possible or work with teachers to have files sent > directly to the student. > > Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg > Aikens via nabs-l > Sent: Friday, August 8, 2014 9:54 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Edmodo > > Hello all, > Are any of you using Edmodo for any of your classes? I'm teaching at a > new school this year and they use it for all kinds of stuff. Both I > and the blind students I teach will need to get familiar with using > the platform. On first glance, it doesn't seem as accessible as it > could be. When I click on items, I rarely get the result I expected, > but maybe I just don't know what I'm doing yet. > > I would love to hear from any students who have been using Edmodo > successfully. > > Thanks, > > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%4 > 0aol.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 01:28:46 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 21:28:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Analytic Tools In-Reply-To: References: <004b01cfb40f$6ff2b580$4fd82080$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Joe, How about using index cards and Brailling pieces of data on them? You can use that sticky stuff they used in school to put up posters on walls, I've no idea what it's called but it's like some kind of puddy, put that in the back, and so if you are trying to rearrange things to find different patterns, you can move them around. It's a bit low tech, but it works. Aside from Excel I really can't think of any helpful software that would be good for mapping. So software engineering friends out there, can you please get on this soonest? Thank you! :) I'm sure that didn't help at all but I tried! Mary F On 8/9/14, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Joe, > > I recently attended a conference call on preparing and taking the LSAT > hosted by the blind lawyers division. Some strategies discussed for > conquering the logic section of the test included using pieces from a > Braille Scrabble game as well as a chemistry kit with different shapes for > different kinds of molecules. Additionally, someone on the call said he was > going to see if using chess pieces would help him since he already has > these > pieces on hand as someone who plays chess. Would any of these ideas work > for > your situation? There may have been some other ideas discussed, but these > were the ones that stuck out the most to me. Hopefully, one of these ideas > can help you, or help spur on other ideas that may help you. > > Warm regards, > Elizabeth > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe via nabs-l > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 4:21 PM > To: 'NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS' > Subject: [nabs-l] Analytic Tools > > Hi, what kind of mind mapping tools, if any, are you guys using to do > school > work or office tasks? At work I'm encountering situations where I need to > be > able to arrange and manipulate various factors, and while Excel helps to a > degree, it's not always the most flexible option. I've thought of resorting > to a Perkins Braille writer, but often I need to be able to arrange factors > in a way that the static nature of Braille does not lend itself. There is > an > abundance of software out there that will allow a person to visually > arrange > icons in various ways, but these are not accessible to blind people. > Anyway, > I thought it a good idea to start here since students will no doubt be at > the forefront of the latest tricks. I'll post to an educators' list as > well, > but any other tips and referrals would be appreciated. Thanks in > advance.--Joe > > > > -- > > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe > > > > Visit my blog: > > http://joeorozco.com/blog > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From kwakmiso at aol.com Sun Aug 10 02:20:39 2014 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 22:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Donating PSAT materials in Braille In-Reply-To: <4478160708bf4092a36e4e955ea8c9e0@gmail.com> References: <4478160708bf4092a36e4e955ea8c9e0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D18258D03CD225-1E5C-11EBD@webmail-vm009.sysops.aol.com> Hello, While cleaning my room, I found a PSAT issued in October 2009 in hard copy Braille. Although it's rather outdated and SAT is going through some significant changes in the next three years, if anyone is in immediate need of more versions of practice SAT I would like to donate the materials I have. Please contact me off list at kwakmiso at aol.com Thank you. Miso Kwak From jsoro620 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 03:04:26 2014 From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 23:04:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Analytic Tools In-Reply-To: References: <004b01cfb40f$6ff2b580$4fd82080$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001401cfb447$cc129000$6437b000$@gmail.com> These are great ideas. Software would be great, but I think the low tech options is what I'll end up leaning on. Elizabeth mentioned a blind architect at this year's convention who spoke of Braille embosser graphics and wiki sticks. If anyone has further ideas on this, they'd be much appreciated. Thanks guys. -- Twitter: @ScribblingJoe Visit my blog: http://joeorozco.com/blog -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 9:29 PM To: Elizabeth Mohnke; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Analytic Tools Hi Joe, How about using index cards and Brailling pieces of data on them? You can use that sticky stuff they used in school to put up posters on walls, I've no idea what it's called but it's like some kind of puddy, put that in the back, and so if you are trying to rearrange things to find different patterns, you can move them around. It's a bit low tech, but it works. Aside from Excel I really can't think of any helpful software that would be good for mapping. So software engineering friends out there, can you please get on this soonest? Thank you! :) I'm sure that didn't help at all but I tried! Mary F On 8/9/14, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Joe, > > I recently attended a conference call on preparing and taking the LSAT > hosted by the blind lawyers division. Some strategies discussed for > conquering the logic section of the test included using pieces from a > Braille Scrabble game as well as a chemistry kit with different shapes > for different kinds of molecules. Additionally, someone on the call > said he was going to see if using chess pieces would help him since he > already has these pieces on hand as someone who plays chess. Would any > of these ideas work for your situation? There may have been some other > ideas discussed, but these were the ones that stuck out the most to > me. Hopefully, one of these ideas can help you, or help spur on other > ideas that may help you. > > Warm regards, > Elizabeth > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe via > nabs-l > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 4:21 PM > To: 'NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS' > Subject: [nabs-l] Analytic Tools > > Hi, what kind of mind mapping tools, if any, are you guys using to do > school work or office tasks? At work I'm encountering situations where > I need to be able to arrange and manipulate various factors, and while > Excel helps to a degree, it's not always the most flexible option. > I've thought of resorting to a Perkins Braille writer, but often I > need to be able to arrange factors in a way that the static nature of > Braille does not lend itself. There is an abundance of software out > there that will allow a person to visually arrange icons in various > ways, but these are not accessible to blind people. > Anyway, > I thought it a good idea to start here since students will no doubt be > at the forefront of the latest tricks. I'll post to an educators' list > as well, but any other tips and referrals would be appreciated. Thanks > in advance.--Joe > > > > -- > > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe > > > > Visit my blog: > > http://joeorozco.com/blog > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmai > l.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmai > l.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com From chapman.candicel at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 05:11:25 2014 From: chapman.candicel at gmail.com (Candice Chapman) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 00:11:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Preparing for The Nfb Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <06F71AA4-1C5E-4782-975E-5125356AFD3D@gmail.com> Hi Sofia, I attended BLIND, Inc., one of the NFB training centers. It is true that you cannot use your guide dog during the day. Before 8 and after 4:30, on the weekends; any time other than class time you can use your dog. I've known people who still got a lot out of training, even though they couldn't use their dogs. I would encourage you to talk to someone who has gone through one of the training programs, who has had a guide dog prior to their training. I don't think all the stories that you find will be negative. There was a person who went through training with me who had a really positive experience. She said that she was a better dog user because of the cane skills that she had gained. If you want, I can try and connect the two of you so that you can talk to her about her experience. Take care, Candice Chapman Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Sofia Gallo wrote: > > Hi > > I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go > to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I > need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving > independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't > let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. > I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't > just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from > considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone > have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide > dog? > > Thanks! > > Sofia > >> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Roanna, >> >> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but >> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The >> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. >> >> Best if luck with your research. >> >> Best, >> >> Candice Chapman >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Nabs Members, >>> >>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of >>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of >>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out >>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before >>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories >>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 05:25:13 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (sofiagallo13 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 05:25:13 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] =?utf-8?q?Preparing_for_The_Nfb_Training_Centers?= In-Reply-To: <06F71AA4-1C5E-4782-975E-5125356AFD3D@gmail.com> References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> , <06F71AA4-1C5E-4782-975E-5125356AFD3D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <22e0fd37a498441d8a31f2a47ce206f3@gmail.com> Hi Candice Thank you so much for your reply. Could you try to connect me with your friend if it’s not too much trouble? I feel that I would benefit a lot from attending a training center, but the idea of not working with my dog for most of the day for such a long period of time really, really scares me. Thanks 😊 Sofia Sent from Windows Mail From: Candice Chapman Sent: ‎Sunday‎, ‎August‎ ‎10‎, ‎2014 ‎1‎:‎11‎ ‎AM To: Sofia Gallo Cc: Candice Chapman via nabs-l Hi Sofia, I attended BLIND, Inc., one of the NFB training centers. It is true that you cannot use your guide dog during the day. Before 8 and after 4:30, on the weekends; any time other than class time you can use your dog. I've known people who still got a lot out of training, even though they couldn't use their dogs. I would encourage you to talk to someone who has gone through one of the training programs, who has had a guide dog prior to their training. I don't think all the stories that you find will be negative. There was a person who went through training with me who had a really positive experience. She said that she was a better dog user because of the cane skills that she had gained. If you want, I can try and connect the two of you so that you can talk to her about her experience. Take care, Candice Chapman Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Sofia Gallo wrote: > > Hi > > I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go > to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I > need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving > independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't > let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. > I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't > just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from > considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone > have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide > dog? > > Thanks! > > Sofia > >> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Roanna, >> >> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but >> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The >> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. >> >> Best if luck with your research. >> >> Best, >> >> Candice Chapman >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Nabs Members, >>> >>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of >>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of >>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out >>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before >>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories >>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Sun Aug 10 14:09:45 2014 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 10:09:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Preparing for The Nfb Training Centers In-Reply-To: <06F71AA4-1C5E-4782-975E-5125356AFD3D@gmail.com> References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> <06F71AA4-1C5E-4782-975E-5125356AFD3D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <08085098-2FE0-4F98-B9A9-B8D6A88C3D5C@aol.com> Hi I just want to know why you can not use your dog. Thanks Sent from my iPad > On Aug 10, 26 Heisei, at 1:11 AM, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi Sofia, > > I attended BLIND, Inc., one of the NFB training centers. It is true that you cannot use your guide dog during the day. Before 8 and after 4:30, on the weekends; any time other than class time you can use your dog. I've known people who still got a lot out of training, even though they couldn't use their dogs. I would encourage you to talk to someone who has gone through one of the training programs, who has had a guide dog prior to their training. I don't think all the stories that you find will be negative. There was a person who went through training with me > who had a really positive experience. She said that she was a better dog user because of the cane skills that she had gained. > > If you want, I can try and connect the two of you so that you can talk to her about her experience. > > Take care, > > Candice Chapman > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Sofia Gallo wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >> dog? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sofia >> >>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Roanna, >>> >>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but >>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The >>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. >>> >>> Best if luck with your research. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Candice Chapman >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of >>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of >>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out >>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before >>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories >>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 17:31:51 2014 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 13:31:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <4478160708bf4092a36e4e955ea8c9e0@gmail.com> References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com><61D2919AE217495281163A73990855A1@robinaPC><0A939890-B692-4B88-8116-BE96E6A7D9DF@gmail.com><1C10D329-8440-41F3-AE20-ED7D23A3CEC9@me.com>, <3762C77F751D4AB1909AFDF2B8C170BA@robinaPC>, <663F6C42B9BE436E8C36B916F8B5B0ED@OwnerPC> <4478160708bf4092a36e4e955ea8c9e0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7877C50709454E22B07DFAFEE2704C84@robinaPC> Ashley, unless you personally have been there, I do not think it wise to speak on their living conditions. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sofia via nabs-l" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "Candice Chapman via nabs-l" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Ashley, do you know anything about their personal adjustment program? Good > to know about the living conditions. > > > Thanks 😊 > > > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > > > > > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎9‎, ‎2014 ‎7‎:‎44‎ ‎PM > To: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com, Candice Chapman via nabs-l > > > > > > yes, I've definitely heard of WSB. I don't recommend it. everyone says the > building they have is old and needs better ventalation. besides, they > probably have patronizing attitudes. > They have job training programs such as the IRS program and desktop > technician. > I've heard many of the training for jobs isn't bad. > The class building is better than the dorms. > But, still I wouldn't go there because the living conditions suck. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sofia via nabs-l > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 7:20 PM > To: Matthew Dierckens ; Candice Chapman via nabs-l ; RJ Sandefur > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > > Has anyone ever heard of this center? World Services for the Blind Life > skills program > > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > > > > > From: Candice Chapman via nabs-l > Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎9‎, ‎2014 ‎12‎:‎22‎ ‎PM > To: Matthew Dierckens, Candice Chapman via nabs-l > > > > > > The training center I atteded back in 1999, was not the best in the world, > but they did require us to take a class on social skills, and it helped me > a > greate deal! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l" > To: "Sofia Gallo" ; "National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 11:08 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> And that's what you will learn at these training centers, you're there >> for >> 6 to 9 months. I would talk to each director of the centers. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 11:00, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Ok, but I'm not looking for social skills trainimg. I need to improve on >>> things like cooking, navigating unfamiliar areas, and things like that. >>> A >>> center, even if it's not an NFB center would be very helpful. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, RJ Sandefur via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> My belief is that you can attend a training center, and still be as >>>> uneducated in blindness skills as before you attended. If I'm an >>>> employer, I am not going to give a rats behind if you went to lcb or >>>> not, because I would want to see if you could do the job without having >>>> someone hold your hand. The NFB training centers do not in my opinion >>>> teach proper social skills training. I've spoke to some of these center >>>> graduates via skype, and their social skills in my opinion were poor. >>>> Speaking of skype, My computer broke down, so I'm using a back up >>>> computer which does not have the ability for skype. I will be getting a >>>> windows 8 computer in a few weeks God willing. RJ >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" >>>> >>>> To: "Miso Kwak" ; "National Association of Blind >>>> Students mailing list" >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 6:32 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> >>>>> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the >>>>> possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB >>>>> friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog >>>>> back >>>>> due to traiing. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >>>>> center with a guide dog. >>>>> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >>>>> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >>>>> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >>>>> contact her. >>>>> Miso Kwak >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>> To: Matthew Dierckens >>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> >>>>> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >>>>> relationship with a dog. >>>>> >>>>> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >>>>> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >>>>> obviously to relieve the dog. >>>>> >>>>> Matthew Dierckens >>>>> Macintosh Trainer >>>>> Blind Access Training >>>>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>>>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>>>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>>>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>>>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>>>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>>>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>>>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>>>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>>>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>>>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>>>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>>>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>>>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>>>> dog? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Sofia >>>>> >>>>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Hi Roanna, >>>>> >>>>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>>>> important, but >>>>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >>>>> attend. The >>>>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >>>>> rehab. >>>>> >>>>> Best if luck with your research. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Candice Chapman >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>>> >>>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>>>> one of >>>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>>>> attending one of >>>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >>>>> are out >>>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >>>>> before >>>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >>>>> stories >>>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >>>>> cel%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >>>>> s%40me.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >>>>> l.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 20:42:46 2014 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:42:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology Message-ID: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> Hi all, I hope everyone is having a wonderful Sunday afternoonh. I have noticed, as I am sure most of you have, there are some pieces of assistive technology such as, the Braille note,which are obsolete becoming due to the fact many people are preferring to use the iPad, iPhone and other Iproducts with Braille displays. I just was wondering, how many of you are still using your Braille notes, and if so, what benefits do you see in using the Braille note over using any of the -iproducts? I will agree that the iPad, iPhone and so on, are great pieces of technology and it is great that blind individuals are able to use the products without having to purchase any additional software to make them accessible, but I know that I still love using my Braille note, and it is kind of sad to see some of these old, but great pieces of technology go out of the window. Thank you for your input. GG From desai.siddhi14 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 20:42:58 2014 From: desai.siddhi14 at gmail.com (siddhi desai) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 02:12:58 +0530 Subject: [nabs-l] Home based internships/jobs Message-ID: Dear all, Where can i find home based internship or jobs? Sincerely Siddhi From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 20:56:31 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 16:56:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone Message-ID: Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, do anyone here know how can I sink in songs from my CD into my iPhone? If you know, can you teach me the steps in how to do it off list since I don’t want to clutter the list? Just wondering! IJust to let you know, I have an iTunes account, and I know that people do it from there, but I never did that by myself, my brother help me with that, but I would like to know how to do it using JAWS. I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wlEmoticon-smile[1].png Type: image/png Size: 1046 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Aug 10 21:08:09 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:08:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> References: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> Message-ID: <789916F1F4D348EA83A1B61B58EFABE3@OwnerPC> hi, I think the major issue with the braille notetakers is expense. I bet ya if they were more affordable; maybe a third of the price, more consumers would buy them or consumer's families would. Like you I love my braille note and hope they make them for years to come. I see many benefits and we already discuss this on list. I'll just say, I love the ease of use; the fact I can type in the braille wordprocessor in braille and read it. I hate relying on speech and have to hear voice over with the ipod for music. Its not easy for me. With the notetaker, I read and write and use the calendar to my heart's content, using braille only. I like this and feel it makes me more equal. I don't have to struggle with synthetic speech then. now you may argue, you can buy a braille display with the ipad or ipod touch. True, but you still don't have the ease of functionality for editing as with the notetaker; with the notetaker, I can use my placemarkers and find command and of course cursor routing keys. This enables me to study and do other reading tasks more effectively. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology Hi all, I hope everyone is having a wonderful Sunday afternoonh. I have noticed, as I am sure most of you have, there are some pieces of assistive technology such as, the Braille note,which are obsolete becoming due to the fact many people are preferring to use the iPad, iPhone and other Iproducts with Braille displays. I just was wondering, how many of you are still using your Braille notes, and if so, what benefits do you see in using the Braille note over using any of the -iproducts? I will agree that the iPad, iPhone and so on, are great pieces of technology and it is great that blind individuals are able to use the products without having to purchase any additional software to make them accessible, but I know that I still love using my Braille note, and it is kind of sad to see some of these old, but great pieces of technology go out of the window. Thank you for your input. GG _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From matt.dierckens at me.com Sun Aug 10 21:09:55 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:09:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <789916F1F4D348EA83A1B61B58EFABE3@OwnerPC> References: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> <789916F1F4D348EA83A1B61B58EFABE3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Not to mention the fact that the OS they use for those notetakers is a bit out of date. Not sure what version of windows CE it's running, but unless I'm mistaken, it's an older version. Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ On Aug 10, 2014, at 17:08, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > hi, > I think the major issue with the braille notetakers is expense. I bet ya if they were more affordable; maybe a third of the price, more consumers would buy them or consumer's families would. > > Like you I love my braille note and hope they make them for years to come. > I see many benefits and we already discuss this on list. > I'll just say, I love the ease of use; the fact I can type in the braille wordprocessor in braille and read it. > I hate relying on speech and have to hear voice over with the ipod for music. > Its not easy for me. > With the notetaker, I read and write and use the calendar to my heart's content, using braille only. I like this and feel it makes me more equal. > I don't have to struggle with synthetic speech then. now you may argue, you can buy a braille display with the ipad or ipod touch. True, but you still don't have the ease of functionality for editing as with the notetaker; with the notetaker, I can use my placemarkers and find command and of course cursor routing keys. This enables me to study and do other reading tasks more effectively. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G via nabs-l > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology > > Hi all, > I hope everyone is having a wonderful Sunday afternoonh. I have noticed, as I am sure most of you have, there are some pieces of assistive technology such as, the Braille note,which are obsolete becoming due to the fact many people are preferring to use the iPad, iPhone and other Iproducts with Braille displays. I just was wondering, how many of you are still using your Braille notes, and if so, what benefits do you see in using the Braille note over using any of the -iproducts? I will agree that the iPad, iPhone and so on, are great pieces of technology and it is great that blind individuals are able to use the products without having to purchase any additional software to make them accessible, but I know that I still love using my Braille note, and it is kind of sad to see some of these old, but great pieces of technology go out of the window. Thank you for your input. > GG > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 21:15:39 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:15:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <789916F1F4D348EA83A1B61B58EFABE3@OwnerPC> References: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> <789916F1F4D348EA83A1B61B58EFABE3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <59A10327-9421-4BAF-87E7-801D08C60104@gmail.com> Agree with Ashey. I don't like using speech while trying to listen to a proffesor and it's also easier to edit. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 10, 2014, at 5:08 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > > hi, > I think the major issue with the braille notetakers is expense. I bet ya if they were more affordable; maybe a third of the price, more consumers would buy them or consumer's families would. > > Like you I love my braille note and hope they make them for years to come. > I see many benefits and we already discuss this on list. > I'll just say, I love the ease of use; the fact I can type in the braille wordprocessor in braille and read it. > I hate relying on speech and have to hear voice over with the ipod for music. > Its not easy for me. > With the notetaker, I read and write and use the calendar to my heart's content, using braille only. I like this and feel it makes me more equal. > I don't have to struggle with synthetic speech then. now you may argue, you can buy a braille display with the ipad or ipod touch. True, but you still don't have the ease of functionality for editing as with the notetaker; with the notetaker, I can use my placemarkers and find command and of course cursor routing keys. This enables me to study and do other reading tasks more effectively. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G via nabs-l > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology > > Hi all, > I hope everyone is having a wonderful Sunday afternoonh. I have noticed, as I am sure most of you have, there are some pieces of assistive technology such as, the Braille note,which are obsolete becoming due to the fact many people are preferring to use the iPad, iPhone and other Iproducts with Braille displays. I just was wondering, how many of you are still using your Braille notes, and if so, what benefits do you see in using the Braille note over using any of the -iproducts? I will agree that the iPad, iPhone and so on, are great pieces of technology and it is great that blind individuals are able to use the products without having to purchase any additional software to make them accessible, but I know that I still love using my Braille note, and it is kind of sad to see some of these old, but great pieces of technology go out of the window. Thank you for your input. > GG > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 21:29:16 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 16:29:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> References: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> Message-ID: <53E7E42C.8060401@gmail.com> I've been using an Apex for a week after having used only a Jaws laptop for almost 8 years; I've always yearned for the advantages that blindness notetakers offer such as, on the fly, being able to resume where you left off, rapidly go to other apps like Address Book, Internet etc., with a single keystroke, wiht a single command (or mostly two) be able to select from words to paragraphs and delete or do whatever you want with them, and yes you can also do these tasks with an I-Device, but OK let me try and explain The thing of using a blindness notetaker, is that you don't have to worry if so and so app is accessible like with the IDevices; because it's designed specifically for us in mind. thus how I see it, is the Notetakers are a complement to mainstream devices. It's important for notetakers to be able to (like I just did) be able to transfer a file one worked on, via USB, from the notetaker to the PC; it's also important for NOtetakers to interface with mainstream devices like the IPhone, thus having both of two worlds. This brings me to a point i've been pondering: how Notetakers are way expensive! thus many blind average people who are on low-incomes, can't afford. So I've been thinking of ways to maybe the notetakers companies to make it possible for the average blind person to get them? How? Maybe Humanware and Himgs, should allow credit card companies to use the scheme like it's used here in Mexico (I don't know if in the US it's also used) where some stores let you buy, and pay monthly without charging interest rate? I think GwMicro and Serotech have this kind of scheme? I feel that if the notetakers could be bought in a way for the average blind person to afford them, they could have both of both worlds? What do you guys think of my viewpoint? Hopefully this may help to enrich this very interesting thread! El 10/08/2014 03:42 p.m., Gloria G via nabs-l escribió: > Hi all, > I hope everyone is having a wonderful Sunday afternoonh. I have noticed, as I am sure most of you have, there are some pieces of assistive technology such as, the Braille note,which are obsolete becoming due to the fact many people are preferring to use the iPad, iPhone and other Iproducts with Braille displays. I just was wondering, how many of you are still using your Braille notes, and if so, what benefits do you see in using the Braille note over using any of the -iproducts? I will agree that the iPad, iPhone and so on, are great pieces of technology and it is great that blind individuals are able to use the products without having to purchase any additional software to make them accessible, but I know that I still love using my Braille note, and it is kind of sad to see some of these old, but great pieces of technology go out of the window. Thank you for your input. > GG > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From codeofdusk at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 21:38:11 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:38:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00a201cfb4e3$6345ac00$29d10400$@gmail.com> RTFM. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:57 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Cc: Florida Association of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, do anyone here know how can I sink in songs from my CD into my iPhone? If you know, can you teach me the steps in how to do it off list since I don’t want to clutter the list? Just wondering! IJust to let you know, I have an iTunes account, and I know that people do it from there, but I never did that by myself, my brother help me with that, but I would like to know how to do it using JAWS. I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 From matt.dierckens at me.com Sun Aug 10 21:43:17 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:43:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone In-Reply-To: <00a201cfb4e3$6345ac00$29d10400$@gmail.com> References: <00a201cfb4e3$6345ac00$29d10400$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Instead of giving you a pretty dickish answer like Bill, which, by the way, I don't believe there is a manual for doing this at least that I've seen, I'm going to tell you. I believe that the only way to do this is to rip the CD into iTunes, and then sync it to your phone. Feel free to write me off list, or give me a shout for further instructions. Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ On Aug 10, 2014, at 17:38, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > RTFM. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via nabs-l > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:57 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Cc: Florida Association of Blind Students > Subject: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone > > Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, do anyone here know how can I sink in songs from my CD into my iPhone? If you know, can you teach me the steps in how to do it off list since I don’t want to clutter the list? Just wondering! IJust to let you know, I have an iTunes account, and I know that people do it from there, but I never did that by myself, my brother help me with that, but I would like to know how to do it using JAWS. I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From codeofdusk at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 21:43:28 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:43:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone In-Reply-To: <00a201cfb4e3$6345ac00$29d10400$@gmail.com> References: <00a201cfb4e3$6345ac00$29d10400$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a501cfb4e4$206cd420$61467c60$@gmail.com> https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=importing+CDs+itunes Bill -----Original Message----- From: Bill K. Dengler [mailto:codeofdusk at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:38 PM To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Cc: 'Florida Association of Blind Students' Subject: RE: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone RTFM. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:57 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Cc: Florida Association of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, do anyone here know how can I sink in songs from my CD into my iPhone? If you know, can you teach me the steps in how to do it off list since I don’t want to clutter the list? Just wondering! IJust to let you know, I have an iTunes account, and I know that people do it from there, but I never did that by myself, my brother help me with that, but I would like to know how to do it using JAWS. I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 From codeofdusk at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 21:46:24 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:46:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone In-Reply-To: References: <00a201cfb4e3$6345ac00$29d10400$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a601cfb4e4$89433520$9bc99f60$@gmail.com> Woops, here's the exact link to the manual page: http://support.apple.com/kb/PH12486 Bill From: Matthew Dierckens [mailto:matt.dierckens at me.com] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:43 PM To: Bill K. Dengler; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone Instead of giving you a pretty dickish answer like Bill, which, by the way, I don't believe there is a manual for doing this at least that I've seen, I'm going to tell you. I believe that the only way to do this is to rip the CD into iTunes, and then sync it to your phone. Feel free to write me off list, or give me a shout for further instructions. Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ On Aug 10, 2014, at 17:38, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l > wrote: RTFM. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:57 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Cc: Florida Association of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] How to Sink in Songs from my CD into an iPhone Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, do anyone here know how can I sink in songs from my CD into my iPhone? If you know, can you teach me the steps in how to do it off list since I don't want to clutter the list? Just wondering! IJust to let you know, I have an iTunes account, and I know that people do it from there, but I never did that by myself, my brother help me with that, but I would like to know how to do it using JAWS. I will really appreciate it if you can help me with this. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 22:04:15 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 18:04:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> Hey! J What do you mean that you will help me if I tell you my bra size? IJust wondering. I'm not going to do that. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: J lucas Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:43 PM To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Subject: itunes for disclosing your bra size Hello Helga, I will definitely show you how to synch songs from CD's onto your iTunes if you tell me your bra size ;) From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 22:07:34 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 18:07:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size In-Reply-To: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> References: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> Message-ID: <43FE34D4892041158B24DA88CC5E33E8@Helga> Hi all! I apologize for writing the message below, but I was just concern about this. Thanks so much and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 6:04 PM To: J lucas Cc: National Association of Blind Students Subject: Re: itunes for disclosing your bra size Hey! J What do you mean that you will help me if I tell you my bra size? IJust wondering. I'm not going to do that. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: J lucas Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:43 PM To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Subject: itunes for disclosing your bra size Hello Helga, I will definitely show you how to synch songs from CD's onto your iTunes if you tell me your bra size ;) From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Sun Aug 10 22:28:14 2014 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 18:28:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size In-Reply-To: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> References: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> Message-ID: Hello Helga, I do not believe the content of this message is appropriate for the NABS email list. Please keep all personal messages private and off the email list. Your cooperation in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 6:04 PM To: J lucas Cc: National Association of Blind Students Subject: Re: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size Hey! J What do you mean that you will help me if I tell you my bra size? IJust wondering. I'm not going to do that. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: J lucas Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:43 PM To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Subject: itunes for disclosing your bra size Hello Helga, I will definitely show you how to synch songs from CD's onto your iTunes if you tell me your bra size ;) _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From codyjbair at yahoo.com Sun Aug 10 22:27:18 2014 From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (codyjbair at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 22:27:18 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] =?utf-8?q?Virus_Protection_Software?= Message-ID: <2c55b009dae14c9c81e4a44e022bce71@yahoo.com> Hi All, Do any of you know of a virus software that has an accessible purchase and install process. Mine has recently ran out and the website to renew is inaccessible. Thanks, Cody From codeofdusk at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 22:29:34 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 18:29:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size In-Reply-To: References: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> Message-ID: <00c701cfb4ea$90bc4c00$b234e400$@gmail.com> +1 Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 6:28 PM To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size Hello Helga, I do not believe the content of this message is appropriate for the NABS email list. Please keep all personal messages private and off the email list. Your cooperation in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 6:04 PM To: J lucas Cc: National Association of Blind Students Subject: Re: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size Hey! J What do you mean that you will help me if I tell you my bra size? IJust wondering. I'm not going to do that. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: J lucas Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:43 PM To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Subject: itunes for disclosing your bra size Hello Helga, I will definitely show you how to synch songs from CD's onto your iTunes if you tell me your bra size ;) _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From alyssahenson95 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 22:42:19 2014 From: alyssahenson95 at gmail.com (Alyssa) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:42:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> References: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> Message-ID: <56CE5B3A-1252-4A71-BCDA-4461718077BD@gmail.com> I too use my apex religiously at college. I like it's portability and speed. I can carry 1 device instead of an iOS device and a Braille display. On the flip side, I can use it as a display if I so choose. I too hope they stay in existence and I like the idea of monthly payments. That's not to say I don't like iOS. On the contrary, I love iOS. I still like the portability and ease of my apex though. Alyssa Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 10, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Gloria G via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > I hope everyone is having a wonderful Sunday afternoonh. I have noticed, as I am sure most of you have, there are some pieces of assistive technology such as, the Braille note,which are obsolete becoming due to the fact many people are preferring to use the iPad, iPhone and other Iproducts with Braille displays. I just was wondering, how many of you are still using your Braille notes, and if so, what benefits do you see in using the Braille note over using any of the -iproducts? I will agree that the iPad, iPhone and so on, are great pieces of technology and it is great that blind individuals are able to use the products without having to purchase any additional software to make them accessible, but I know that I still love using my Braille note, and it is kind of sad to see some of these old, but great pieces of technology go out of the window. Thank you for your input. > GG > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alyssahenson95%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 00:10:44 2014 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 19:10:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistance with Purchasing Assistive Technology Message-ID: Hi all, I was wondering if anyone knew of any organizations that would assist a blind individual in purchasing a piece of assistive technology? I am wanting to purchase the Braillenote Apex for school, and I am not getting any assistance from my local blindness organization. I have had conversations with my rehab counselor, and they informed me that if any assistive technology was authorized, it would only be the iPad with braille display. Thanks for any suggestions or advice. GG From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 00:12:13 2014 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:12:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <56CE5B3A-1252-4A71-BCDA-4461718077BD@gmail.com> References: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> <56CE5B3A-1252-4A71-BCDA-4461718077BD@gmail.com> Message-ID: I use a combination of both. I find that my apex is much more reliable than a braille display paired to an iPhone or iPad. I find that I have a lot of connectivity issues with that set up. Aleeha Dudley Vice President Ohio Association of blind students. > On Aug 10, 2014, at 6:42 PM, Alyssa via nabs-l wrote: > > I too use my apex religiously at college. I like it's portability and speed. I can carry 1 device instead of an iOS device and a Braille display. On the flip side, I can use it as a display if I so choose. I too hope they stay in existence and I like the idea of monthly payments. That's not to say I don't like iOS. On the contrary, I love iOS. I still like the portability and ease of my apex though. > Alyssa > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 10, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Gloria G via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> I hope everyone is having a wonderful Sunday afternoonh. I have noticed, as I am sure most of you have, there are some pieces of assistive technology such as, the Braille note,which are obsolete becoming due to the fact many people are preferring to use the iPad, iPhone and other Iproducts with Braille displays. I just was wondering, how many of you are still using your Braille notes, and if so, what benefits do you see in using the Braille note over using any of the -iproducts? I will agree that the iPad, iPhone and so on, are great pieces of technology and it is great that blind individuals are able to use the products without having to purchase any additional software to make them accessible, but I know that I still love using my Braille note, and it is kind of sad to see some of these old, but great pieces of technology go out of the window. Thank you for your input. >> GG >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alyssahenson95%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 00:15:50 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:15:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistance with Purchasing Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00b401cfb4f9$688385a0$398a90e0$@gmail.com> That is not acting in the consumers' best interest. Write you own justification and exactly why it willhelp you. Explain the advantages of having the note taker over the ipad and braille display. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Assistance with Purchasing Assistive Technology Hi all, I was wondering if anyone knew of any organizations that would assist a blind individual in purchasing a piece of assistive technology? I am wanting to purchase the Braillenote Apex for school, and I am not getting any assistance from my local blindness organization. I have had conversations with my rehab counselor, and they informed me that if any assistive technology was authorized, it would only be the iPad with braille display. Thanks for any suggestions or advice. GG _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 00:21:00 2014 From: franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com (jonathan franks) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 19:21:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistance with Purchasing Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, If you really feel as if this piece of equipment would be more beneficial for you in your schoolwork, I would contact the superior of your Rehabilitation counselor and explain to them why the Apex would be more beneficial for you in school compared to the iPAD. Only you knows what technology or adaptive equipment will be most beneficial for you Good luck Jonathan On 8/10/14, Gloria G via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I was wondering if anyone knew of any organizations that would assist a > blind individual in purchasing a piece of assistive technology? I am wanting > to purchase the Braillenote Apex for school, and I am not getting any > assistance from my local blindness organization. I have had conversations > with my rehab counselor, and they informed me that if any assistive > technology was authorized, it would only be the iPad with braille display. > Thanks for any suggestions or advice. > GG > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/franks.jonathan13%40gmail.com > -- Jonathan Franks Austin Chapter Board Member National Federation of the Blind of Texas www.nfbaustin.org Hook the Cure Board Member Social Media Manager The University of Texas at Austin www.texashookthecure.weebly.co Diabetes Action Network (NFB) National Board Member https://nfb.org/diabetics From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 00:22:43 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:22:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistance with Purchasing Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00cc01cfb4fa$5f331280$1d993780$@gmail.com> If you need to contact CAPS, then do so, but try to use them only after you have exhausted all channels. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of jonathan franks via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:21 PM To: Gloria G; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Assistance with Purchasing Assistive Technology Hello, If you really feel as if this piece of equipment would be more beneficial for you in your schoolwork, I would contact the superior of your Rehabilitation counselor and explain to them why the Apex would be more beneficial for you in school compared to the iPAD. Only you knows what technology or adaptive equipment will be most beneficial for you Good luck Jonathan On 8/10/14, Gloria G via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I was wondering if anyone knew of any organizations that would assist > a blind individual in purchasing a piece of assistive technology? I am > wanting to purchase the Braillenote Apex for school, and I am not > getting any assistance from my local blindness organization. I have > had conversations with my rehab counselor, and they informed me that > if any assistive technology was authorized, it would only be the iPad with braille display. > Thanks for any suggestions or advice. > GG > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/franks.jonathan13% > 40gmail.com > -- Jonathan Franks Austin Chapter Board Member National Federation of the Blind of Texas www.nfbaustin.org Hook the Cure Board Member Social Media Manager The University of Texas at Austin www.texashookthecure.weebly.co Diabetes Action Network (NFB) National Board Member https://nfb.org/diabetics _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From kramc11 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 00:53:07 2014 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:53:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Preparing for The Nfb Training Centers References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com>, <06F71AA4-1C5E-4782-975E-5125356AFD3D@gmail.com> <22e0fd37a498441d8a31f2a47ce206f3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04F9BB4259044E2090B0FB0EE654F25F@mark> Hi Sofia, I attended BLIND inc. with a guide dog. The skills I gained in travel class with a cane did in fact help me with working with my guide dog. They helped me in terms of being able to make a mental map of my surroundings and keeping myself orientated. But, in addition to the travel class BLIND inc. has all the other classes such as jobs, shop, cooking, and communications. These classes were immensely helpful. Because the working relationship with my dog was 2 years old, and I was able to work my dog in the evenings and on the weekends, I don’t think that leaving him in a kennel during class time adversely affected our working relationship. HTH Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sofia via nabs-l" To: "Candice Chapman" Cc: "Candice Chapman via nabs-l" Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Preparing for The Nfb Training Centers > Hi Candice > > > Thank you so much for your reply. Could you try to connect me with your > friend if it’s not too much trouble? I feel that I would benefit a lot > from attending a training center, but the idea of not working with my dog > for most of the day for such a long period of time really, really scares > me. > > > Thanks 😊 > > > > > > > Sofia > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > > > > > From: Candice Chapman > Sent: ‎Sunday‎, ‎August‎ ‎10‎, ‎2014 ‎1‎:‎11‎ ‎AM > To: Sofia Gallo > Cc: Candice Chapman via nabs-l > > > > > > Hi Sofia, > > I attended BLIND, Inc., one of the NFB training centers. It is true that > you cannot use your guide dog during the day. Before 8 and after 4:30, on > the weekends; any time other than class time you can use your dog. I've > known people who still got a lot out of training, even though they > couldn't use their dogs. I would encourage you to talk to someone who has > gone through one of the training programs, who has had a guide dog prior > to their training. I don't think all the stories that you find will be > negative. There was a person who went through training with me > who had a really positive experience. She said that she was a better dog > user because of the cane skills that she had gained. > > If you want, I can try and connect the two of you so that you can talk to > her about her experience. > > Take care, > > Candice Chapman > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Sofia Gallo wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >> dog? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sofia >> >>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Roanna, >>> >>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, >>> but >>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. >>> The >>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. >>> >>> Best if luck with your research. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Candice Chapman >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one >>>> of >>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one >>>> of >>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are >>>> out >>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before >>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories >>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 00:55:27 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:55:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners Message-ID: Good evening all, I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or lack thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on the list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to be a resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, parents and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means that anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, anyone, conducts a Google search. When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, which relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you contact them off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and forth, for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards others. So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among list members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion about issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but I'm truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite and respectful when responding to this message, and if you have strong feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my email address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. Thank you, Sincerely, Your list moderator, -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From kmaent1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 01:17:16 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:17:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size Message-ID: <53e819d4.c76c8c0a.6bab.5de5@mx.google.com> Hello Helga, I'm very sorry this happened to you for asking a question on the list. Thank you for replying on list, so we can all know what's going on. Sean, Mary, and David, can you remove this J. Lucas person from the list? I think it's important that we do not tolerate this sort of sexual harassment and that this list is a safe place where people can feel free to ask questions without being harassed. Best, Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: Helga via nabs-l References: Message-ID: <000901cfb502$9266dad0$b7349070$@net> Hi Mary and all, First, something else to add to the google search front. You not only find posts from this list when doing a google search on any sort of topic, you more specifically find them when you or someone else google your name. Just thought I'd throw that out there because not everyone may know that and that could potentially cause problems if someone like a potential employer were to google you. As to how we can improve the list, its difficult. I myself do think the list does need some sort of reform, but to restrict some is to restrict all of us, and to implement a complex system of reform would most likely be quite time consuming for those involved, and in my opinion, a little unnecessary. Most of us are old to know what things are and are not appropriate forms of listserve edicate, and in my opinion it is a little ridiculous that we are even having to have this discussion. I am not in any way flaiming you or any member of the NABS board, or any of the members of this list in a specific manner. I am saying this because I think it does need to be said; I am not trying to cause trouble here. This all being said, I do still really do enjoy this list and find it a valuable resource. I have two suggestions: 1. Would it be possible for once a month or so, the list guidelines to be sent out? Perhaps this could be done on the first of the month when the other list passwords are sent out or around this time? This may help new members and prevent problems before they start. 2. Is there any way we could have some sort of form when you sign up for this list. This could be very simple, like name, status, and why you want to join this list. For example, when I would fill out the form, it would be something like Name: Lillie Pennington Status: High School Junior Why I want to join: To learn and gain insite and advice from other blind students and young professionals. This may help so that not every random person can join this list. I know and respect that we want to be an open forum, but there is such a thing as being too open. Let me know if you have anymore questions. Sorry if I have offended anyone with this message. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners Good evening all, I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or lack thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on the list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to be a resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, parents and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means that anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, anyone, conducts a Google search. When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, which relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you contact them off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and forth, for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards others. So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among list members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion about issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but I'm truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite and respectful when responding to this message, and if you have strong feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my email address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. Thank you, Sincerely, Your list moderator, -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse. net From bendallin at outlook.com Mon Aug 11 01:44:36 2014 From: bendallin at outlook.com (Ben Dallin) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 19:44:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Virus Protection Software In-Reply-To: <2c55b009dae14c9c81e4a44e022bce71@yahoo.com> References: <2c55b009dae14c9c81e4a44e022bce71@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi. Honestly, for most computer users, I would recommend getting Microsoft's free antivirus and anti spyware. With Windows 8 and above, it comes included and is called Windows Defender. It is accessible with Jaws, has better than average reviews, and it's free. If you have Windows 7, you can get it as well. It doesn't come packaged with Windows, so you need to download it separately from microsoft. For Windows 7 and earlier, it's called Windows Security Essentials. Just make sure if you need to download it that you get it from the Microsoft Website. Hope this helps. Ben Dallin Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 10, 2014, at 4:29 PM, "Cody Bair via nabs-l" wrote: > > Hi All, > > Do any of you know of a virus software that has an accessible purchase and install process. Mine has recently ran out and the website to renew is inaccessible. > > Thanks, > > Cody > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bendallin%40outlook.com From kcj21 at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 11 01:47:06 2014 From: kcj21 at bellsouth.net (kcj21) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 18:47:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Mailing Lists Message-ID: <1407721626.57678.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hello all,     Could please tell me where I can find the NFB list of mailing lists. I looked on the NFB website but couldn't find it. I realize that we discussed this a couple of weeks ago, but I don't remember the responses, sorry. Thank you, Kaley From sgermano at asu.edu Mon Aug 11 01:47:53 2014 From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 18:47:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistance with Purchasing Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Formally request what you want. When they deny it you then file an appeal. As soon as they knew my appeal was filed my counselor decided waht I was asking for was something they could do. On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 5:21 PM, jonathan franks via nabs-l < nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote: > Hello, > If you really feel as if this piece of equipment would be more > beneficial for you in your schoolwork, I would contact the superior of > your Rehabilitation counselor and explain to them why the Apex would > be more beneficial for you in school compared to the iPAD. > > Only you knows what technology or adaptive equipment will be most > beneficial for you > > Good luck > > Jonathan > > On 8/10/14, Gloria G via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > > I was wondering if anyone knew of any organizations that would assist a > > blind individual in purchasing a piece of assistive technology? I am > wanting > > to purchase the Braillenote Apex for school, and I am not getting any > > assistance from my local blindness organization. I have had conversations > > with my rehab counselor, and they informed me that if any assistive > > technology was authorized, it would only be the iPad with braille > display. > > Thanks for any suggestions or advice. > > GG > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/franks.jonathan13%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Jonathan Franks > Austin Chapter Board Member > National Federation of the Blind of Texas > www.nfbaustin.org > > Hook the Cure Board Member > Social Media Manager > The University of Texas at Austin > www.texashookthecure.weebly.co > > Diabetes Action Network (NFB) > National Board Member > https://nfb.org/diabetics > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > From dandrews at visi.com Mon Aug 11 02:04:22 2014 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:04:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size In-Reply-To: <43FE34D4892041158B24DA88CC5E33E8@Helga> References: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> <43FE34D4892041158B24DA88CC5E33E8@Helga> Message-ID: Was this message sent to you privately -- or to the whole list. Either way it is totally inappropriate! David Andrews, List Owner At 05:07 PM 8/10/2014, you wrote: >Hi all! I apologize for writing the message below, but I was just >concern about this. Thanks so much and God bless! :) > > > >Helga Schreiber > >Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association >of Blind Students >Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > >Phone: (561) 706-5950 >Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >Skype: helga.schreiber26 >4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > >"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >-----Original Message----- From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 6:04 PM >To: J lucas >Cc: National Association of Blind Students >Subject: Re: itunes for disclosing your bra size > >Hey! J What do you mean that you will help me if I tell you my bra size? >IJust wondering. I'm not going to do that. Hope to hear from you soon. >Thanks and God bless! :) > > > > >Helga Schreiber > >Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind >Students >Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > >Phone: (561) 706-5950 >Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >Skype: helga.schreiber26 >4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > >"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever >believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >-----Original Message----- From: J lucas >Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:43 PM >To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >Subject: itunes for disclosing your bra size > >Hello Helga, I will definitely show you how to synch songs from CD's >onto your iTunes if you tell me your bra size ;) David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 02:05:20 2014 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 22:05:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Virus Protection Software In-Reply-To: References: <2c55b009dae14c9c81e4a44e022bce71@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, A few months back, I read a couple of articles that said that Microsoft Security Essentials had scored extremely low in the tests they run to see which antivirus solutions are the strongest. Is this no longer the case? If that still is the case, the only other antivirus that I know of that's still fully accessible is Vipre. It's a bit pricy, but I like it a lot. All the options are accessible. If you want to change scan times and such, you might have to use your JAWS cursor, if this is the screen reader you use. I don't know how well it would work with others. But the actual scanning process, results, and quarrantine are fully accessible. On 8/10/14, Ben Dallin via nabs-l wrote: > Hi. Honestly, for most computer users, I would recommend getting Microsoft's > free antivirus and anti spyware. With Windows 8 and above, it comes included > and is called Windows Defender. It is accessible with Jaws, has better than > average reviews, and it's free. If you have Windows 7, you can get it as > well. It doesn't come packaged with Windows, so you need to download it > separately from microsoft. For Windows 7 and earlier, it's called Windows > Security Essentials. Just make sure if you need to download it that you get > it from the Microsoft Website. Hope this helps. > Ben Dallin > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 10, 2014, at 4:29 PM, "Cody Bair via nabs-l" >> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> Do any of you know of a virus software that has an accessible purchase and >> install process. Mine has recently ran out and the website to renew is >> inaccessible. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Cody >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bendallin%40outlook.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > -- Desiree From dandrews at visi.com Mon Aug 11 02:06:19 2014 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:06:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Mailing Lists In-Reply-To: <1407721626.57678.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com > References: <1407721626.57678.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The url is http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ Dave At 08:47 PM 8/10/2014, you wrote: >Hello all, > > Could please tell me where I can find the NFB list of mailing > lists. I looked on the NFB website but couldn't find it. I realize > that we discussed this a couple of weeks ago, but I don't remember > the responses, sorry. > >Thank you, >Kaley David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From bethslists at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 02:09:07 2014 From: bethslists at gmail.com (Beth Taurasi) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:09:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners Message-ID: <53e825d0.a32b320a.53f5.ffffed04@mx.google.com> I don't like when people ... no names here say that the stuff I say is garbage. That's completey inappropriate in my opinion. The opinions on this list should be no way involved with anyone, or those of the writers. The opinions on this list should be kept carefully mannered if at all. The fact is I don't like it when one person has to cut me down when I write stuff for instance. Like the thing I wrote about social skills, and that person was indirectly implying that I had poor social skills. He wrongly stated that I was "feeding garbage" to the list. You were right about inappropriate comments. Bra size is not appropriate for the list, as an example. I think the list is vluable, but it seems like no one replies to me sometimes. I feel left out of list activities even when I write. I used to be active, but we can talk about social skills and tech and all things blindness. But there are blind people who have compounded other disabilities who don't feel valued on this list. I think the list has a lot of value for college students, but I have most of my good friends on this list. Thanks. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Fernandez via nabs-l Lille and all, I think some of that stuff is great. I think, as I stated previously, that people cutting others down on this list is bad enough. We need to have a guildelines thing sent out, as Lille said. I think that's a great idea. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Lillie Pennington via nabs-l ,"'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" References: <2c55b009dae14c9c81e4a44e022bce71@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2A13E460-6AC1-4AA7-91C8-32D665E9B9E7@gmail.com> I have used Microsoft Security Essentials for three years and have had no problems with my computer. In my opinion, if you're pretty responsible and educated about where you download things from, you won't have any problems. Cindy Bennett clb5590 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 10, 2014, at 7:05 PM, Desiree Oudinot via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi, > A few months back, I read a couple of articles that said that > Microsoft Security Essentials had scored extremely low in the tests > they run to see which antivirus solutions are the strongest. Is this > no longer the case? > If that still is the case, the only other antivirus that I know of > that's still fully accessible is Vipre. It's a bit pricy, but I like > it a lot. All the options are accessible. If you want to change scan > times and such, you might have to use your JAWS cursor, if this is the > screen reader you use. I don't know how well it would work with > others. But the actual scanning process, results, and quarrantine are > fully accessible. > >> On 8/10/14, Ben Dallin via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi. Honestly, for most computer users, I would recommend getting Microsoft's >> free antivirus and anti spyware. With Windows 8 and above, it comes included >> and is called Windows Defender. It is accessible with Jaws, has better than >> average reviews, and it's free. If you have Windows 7, you can get it as >> well. It doesn't come packaged with Windows, so you need to download it >> separately from microsoft. For Windows 7 and earlier, it's called Windows >> Security Essentials. Just make sure if you need to download it that you get >> it from the Microsoft Website. Hope this helps. >> Ben Dallin >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 10, 2014, at 4:29 PM, "Cody Bair via nabs-l" >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Do any of you know of a virus software that has an accessible purchase and >>> install process. Mine has recently ran out and the website to renew is >>> inaccessible. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Cody >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bendallin%40outlook.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > -- > Desiree > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com From desai1shikha at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 02:39:54 2014 From: desai1shikha at gmail.com (Shikha) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 22:39:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] President for the student division Message-ID: Hello, My name is Shikha and i was wondering if i should run for being president for Georgia's student devision. The elections are going to be held at state convention in october and a lot of people want me to run. This is my first time for being president for any thing in my entire life so i was wondering if i could do it because i am really scared. My question is that what does the president of the student division have to do and how do i become confident and not scared of taking this role? Thanks, Shikha From gera1027 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 03:10:12 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 22:10:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <59A10327-9421-4BAF-87E7-801D08C60104@gmail.com> References: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> <789916F1F4D348EA83A1B61B58EFABE3@OwnerPC> <59A10327-9421-4BAF-87E7-801D08C60104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53E83414.2020503@gmail.com> Also, people don't have the false impression that you're listening to music, or listening to your screen reader's voice, thus easier for them to come up and talk to you when they don't see nothing in your ears! As some of you have said, definitely more equal when we use Braille for editing and for working/writing! El 10/08/2014 04:15 p.m., Sofia Gallo via nabs-l escribió: > Agree with Ashey. I don't like using speech while trying to listen to a proffesor and it's also easier to edit. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 10, 2014, at 5:08 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >> >> hi, >> I think the major issue with the braille notetakers is expense. I bet ya if they were more affordable; maybe a third of the price, more consumers would buy them or consumer's families would. >> >> Like you I love my braille note and hope they make them for years to come. >> I see many benefits and we already discuss this on list. >> I'll just say, I love the ease of use; the fact I can type in the braille wordprocessor in braille and read it. >> I hate relying on speech and have to hear voice over with the ipod for music. >> Its not easy for me. >> With the notetaker, I read and write and use the calendar to my heart's content, using braille only. I like this and feel it makes me more equal. >> I don't have to struggle with synthetic speech then. now you may argue, you can buy a braille display with the ipad or ipod touch. True, but you still don't have the ease of functionality for editing as with the notetaker; with the notetaker, I can use my placemarkers and find command and of course cursor routing keys. This enables me to study and do other reading tasks more effectively. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G via nabs-l >> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology >> >> Hi all, >> I hope everyone is having a wonderful Sunday afternoonh. I have noticed, as I am sure most of you have, there are some pieces of assistive technology such as, the Braille note,which are obsolete becoming due to the fact many people are preferring to use the iPad, iPhone and other Iproducts with Braille displays. I just was wondering, how many of you are still using your Braille notes, and if so, what benefits do you see in using the Braille note over using any of the -iproducts? I will agree that the iPad, iPhone and so on, are great pieces of technology and it is great that blind individuals are able to use the products without having to purchase any additional software to make them accessible, but I know that I still love using my Braille note, and it is kind of sad to see some of these old, but great pieces of technology go out of the window. Thank you for your input. >> GG >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 04:24:58 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:24:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] President for the student division In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Shikha, I think it is perfectly normal for anyone to be anxious about becoming president of a student division. In fact, I think it is a good sign that you are concerned about the responsibility and not overly confident about your ability to manage things. It will help you listen to others and become a better leader over time. I would suggest talking to both your affiliate president and the current GABS president to find out what the job entails and what would be expected of you. Each state student division is different, so you will get the best advice from folks in your own state. Generally the job involves organizing at least one seminar each year, fundraisers and socials throughout the year, managing the member list and bank account along with the treasurer, and leading regular board meetings. However, some student divisions are more active than other in terms of event frequency and complexity. Best of luck! Arielle On 8/10/14, Shikha via nabs-l wrote: > Hello, > My name is Shikha and i was wondering if i should run for being president > for Georgia's student devision. The elections are going to be held at state > convention in october and a lot of people want me to run. This is my first > time for being president for any thing in my entire life so i was wondering > if i could do it because i am really scared. > My question is that what does the president of the student division have to > do and how do i become confident and not scared of taking this role? > Thanks, > > > Shikha > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From troubleclark at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 11:46:27 2014 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 07:46:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE Message-ID: Dear listers, is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS navigation? Sincerely, Nathan Clark From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Aug 11 12:02:19 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 05:02:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Mailing Lists In-Reply-To: <1407721626.57678.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com > References: <1407721626.57678.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good morning, Kaley, Seems to me that this is a GOOGLE-search away, No? Have a giood day ! 06:47 PM 8/10/2014, kcj21 via nabs-l wrote: >Hello all, > > Could please tell me where I can find the NFB list of mailing > lists. I looked on the NFB website but couldn't find it. I realize > that we discussed this a couple of weeks ago, but I don't remember > the responses, sorry. > >Thank you, >Kaley >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Aug 11 12:08:25 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 05:08:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Virus Protection Software In-Reply-To: <2A13E460-6AC1-4AA7-91C8-32D665E9B9E7@gmail.com> References: <2c55b009dae14c9c81e4a44e022bce71@yahoo.com> <2A13E460-6AC1-4AA7-91C8-32D665E9B9E7@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good morning I, too, just began using the anti-virus program that comes with the comput. Seems to work undisputingly! Good luck to you! CarAt 07:14 PM 8/10/2014, Cindy via nabs-l wrote: >I have used Microsoft Security Essentials for three years and have >had no problems with my computer. In my opinion, if you're pretty >responsible and educated about where you download things from, you >won't have any problems. > >Cindy Bennett >clb5590 at gmail.com >Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 10, 2014, at 7:05 PM, Desiree Oudinot via nabs-l > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > A few months back, I read a couple of articles that said that > > Microsoft Security Essentials had scored extremely low in the tests > > they run to see which antivirus solutions are the strongest. Is this > > no longer the case? > > If that still is the case, the only other antivirus that I know of > > that's still fully accessible is Vipre. It's a bit pricy, but I like > > it a lot. All the options are accessible. If you want to change scan > > times and such, you might have to use your JAWS cursor, if this is the > > screen reader you use. I don't know how well it would work with > > others. But the actual scanning process, results, and quarrantine are > > fully accessible. > > > >> On 8/10/14, Ben Dallin via nabs-l wrote: > >> Hi. Honestly, for most computer users, I would recommend getting > Microsoft's > >> free antivirus and anti spyware. With Windows 8 and above, it > comes included > >> and is called Windows Defender. It is accessible with Jaws, has > better than > >> average reviews, and it's free. If you have Windows 7, you can get it as > >> well. It doesn't come packaged with Windows, so you need to download it > >> separately from microsoft. For Windows 7 and earlier, it's called Windows > >> Security Essentials. Just make sure if you need to download it > that you get > >> it from the Microsoft Website. Hope this helps. > >> Ben Dallin > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On Aug 10, 2014, at 4:29 PM, "Cody Bair via nabs-l" > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi All, > >>> > >>> Do any of you know of a virus software that has an accessible > purchase and > >>> install process. Mine has recently ran out and the website to renew is > >>> inaccessible. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Cody > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bendallin%40outlook.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > > > > -- > > Desiree > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From codeofdusk at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 12:20:24 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 08:20:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> What exactly do you want from the app? Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE Dear listers, is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS navigation? Sincerely, Nathan Clark _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 12:25:57 2014 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 08:25:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, I agree that some reform does need to take place. I have seen more and more frequently the manners that some people choose to display on this list. It is unfortunate because you are impacting yourself should your future boss choose to do a Google search of your name. I don't think that limiting who can subscribe will help, as those who subscribe with malicious intent can always fabricate responses to a generated form. I think we need to rely more on people's senses of respect, and also need to more strictly enforce the rules of the list, e.g. not slamming anyone, being polite, etc. Aleeha Dudley Vice President Ohio Association of blind students. > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l wrote: > > Good evening all, > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or lack > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on the > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to be a > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, parents > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means that > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, anyone, > conducts a Google search. > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, which > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you contact them > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and forth, > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards others. > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among list > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion about > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but I'm > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite and > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have strong > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my email > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. > > Thank you, > Sincerely, > Your list moderator, > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From bethslists at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 12:30:59 2014 From: bethslists at gmail.com (Beth Taurasi) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 06:30:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners Message-ID: <53e8b78d.6d80320a.518a.ffff8bd7@mx.google.com> I agree. I've been slammed for writing "garbage". So I want this listserv to serve as a polite resource of info. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Good evening all, I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or lack thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on the list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to be a resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, parents and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means that anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, anyone, conducts a Google search. When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, which relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you contact them off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and forth, for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards others. So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among list members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion about issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but I'm truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite and respectful when responding to this message, and if you have strong feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my email address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. Thank you, Sincerely, Your list moderator, -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1 993%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Mon Aug 11 13:09:43 2014 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 08:09:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Orbit Research Group & TBG announce project for low cost braille display. Message-ID: > >Orbit Research and the Transforming Braille >Group Announce Agreement to Produce Low-cost Refreshable Braille Display > >WILMINGTON, DE – August 6, 2015 – Orbit Research >LLC and the Transforming Braille Group LLC are >pleased to announce an agreement to produce a >low cost, refreshable braille display. > >Orbit, an international engineering company >based in Wilmington, Delaware, specialising in >high quality, low cost products for blind and >partially sighted people, will be undertaking >the research, development and manufacture of this unique product. > >The Transforming Braille Group LLC is a global >consortium of organisations of and for the blind >which is investing $1m in the project. > >The objective of the project is to produce a >stand-alone 20-cell refreshable braille display >for $300 (or £200) which will bring refreshable >braille within the reach of children in >developing countries and will provide libraries >in developed countries with a viable alternative >to hard copy braille. The product will be launched at CSUN in 2016. > >The display is designed to work through USB and >Bluetooth connectivity with 'smart' phones and >tablets. It is not intended to compete with high >specification refreshable braille display >already on the market, primarily used in >education and employment but is intended to >bring braille displayed e-books to a wide audience at an economical price. > >"The agreement with TBG is a landmark in our >journey to develop and manufacture essential >products at an affordable cost through the >application of mainstream technology in unique >and innovative ways” said Dr. Gina Spagnoli, >Orbit Research’s Founder. “While each of >our previous products has brought a multi-fold >improvement in the state of the art in terms of >performance, cost, size and features, we are >thrilled that through this partnership with TBG, >we will be able to offer a game-changing product >that will impact the daily lives of millions of >blind people across the world” > >TBG President, Kevin Carey said: "At last we >have a technology which will guarantee the >survival of braille. It has been my >long-standing, publicly stated objective to find >a disruptive technology which will radically >force down the cost of refreshable braille so >that the world's digital content becomes >available in a tactile format. This new device >will bring braille within the price range of >educators in developing countries and will >enable most blind people to access e-books and >other internet material without resorting to specialist libraries." > >TBG estimates that its new product will retail >at a unit cost less than 20% of the current market price. > >Contact details: >Kevin Carey, President, >Transforming Braille Group LLC >Tel: +44(0)1273 834321 >Email: humanity at atlas.co.uk >www.Transformingbraille.org (under construction) > >Carla Morris >Orbit Research LLC >Tel: 1-888-606-7248 >Email: morris.carla at orbitresearch.com >www.orbitresearch.com > David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From cape.amanda at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 13:10:57 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 09:10:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeing eye gps and google maps to locate bus stops Message-ID: <6ABBED4F-E228-47F4-9F81-FE22DAB2B4F1@gmail.com> Hello everyone, Does anyone know how I can use one of the maps apps to locate a bus stop while on the bus? Amanda From kwakmiso at aol.com Mon Aug 11 16:28:09 2014 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:28:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <53e8b78d.6d80320a.518a.ffff8bd7@mx.google.com> References: <53e8b78d.6d80320a.518a.ffff8bd7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8D183985F5170B7-124-17351@webmail-vm072.sysops.aol.com> Hello, I have been off of the listserve for a while and came back just a few days ago. Eve now I don't read everything that is sent on the list so I have less ground to speak from. Being searched by your future boss is certainly something to be concerned about. However, bigger picture here is plain integrity and respect in general. These two concepts are hard to grasp and I do not mean that I am perfect in mastering these virtues. What I am intending to say is that we, as people who affiliate ourselves with the National Federation of the Blind, seeking greater independence and dignity as blind people, should strive for these virtues and practice to our best. As for reasons mentioned above, I don't think I am at a right place to suggest some practical solutions at the moment. I am just here to take what I need and want and help out if I can. I just would like to ask everyone to think twice before you click the send button. I wrote about integrity and respect because I value those virtues and care what kind of people I surround myself with as well as how I present myself to others. Thank you for reading. Miso Kwak -----Original Message----- From: Beth Taurasi via nabs-l To: blindcowgirl1993 ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 5:31 am Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners I agree. I've been slammed for writing "garbage". So I want this listserv to serve as a polite resource of info. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Good evening all, I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or lack thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on the list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to be a resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, parents and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means that anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, anyone, conducts a Google search. When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, which relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you contact them off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and forth, for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards others. So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among list members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion about issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but I'm truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite and respectful when responding to this message, and if you have strong feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my email address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. Thank you, Sincerely, Your list moderator, -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1 993%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 16:35:32 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 10:35:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <53E83414.2020503@gmail.com> References: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> <789916F1F4D348EA83A1B61B58EFABE3@OwnerPC> <59A10327-9421-4BAF-87E7-801D08C60104@gmail.com> <53E83414.2020503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <47DE4D28-BC95-4168-A15C-0CB809FCEDFB@gmail.com> Hello all, I still have my braille note apex and pull it out occasionally. More often than not I'm using it as a braille display for my iPhone. I can appreciate the advantages of traditional notetakers that are being brought up but, honestly, I think it's only a matter of time before braille support on iOS or android surpasses anything The note taker companies can come up with on their shoestring budgets. Freedom scientific saw the writing on the wall years ago, before anybody else in the market. Human where was a couple years slower, At least they have been trying to update hkeysoft every now and again but it's a losing battle and I think they know it. They've certainly updated their braille displays, modernize the Victor Stream, even made a screen reader for BlackBerries… but no new note taker since early 2010.Hims, It seems to me, is the last holdout. I'll be curious if they are able to put out one more braille sense model before market forces convince them it's a silly idea. Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 10, 2014, at 9:10 PM, Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l wrote: > > Also, people don't have the false impression that you're listening to music, or listening to your screen reader's voice, thus easier for them to come up and talk to you when they don't see nothing in your ears! As some of you have said, definitely more equal when we use Braille for editing and for working/writing! > > El 10/08/2014 04:15 p.m., Sofia Gallo via nabs-l escribió: >> Agree with Ashey. I don't like using speech while trying to listen to a proffesor and it's also easier to edit. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 10, 2014, at 5:08 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> hi, >>> I think the major issue with the braille notetakers is expense. I bet ya if they were more affordable; maybe a third of the price, more consumers would buy them or consumer's families would. >>> >>> Like you I love my braille note and hope they make them for years to come. >>> I see many benefits and we already discuss this on list. >>> I'll just say, I love the ease of use; the fact I can type in the braille wordprocessor in braille and read it. >>> I hate relying on speech and have to hear voice over with the ipod for music. >>> Its not easy for me. >>> With the notetaker, I read and write and use the calendar to my heart's content, using braille only. I like this and feel it makes me more equal. >>> I don't have to struggle with synthetic speech then. now you may argue, you can buy a braille display with the ipad or ipod touch. True, but you still don't have the ease of functionality for editing as with the notetaker; with the notetaker, I can use my placemarkers and find command and of course cursor routing keys. This enables me to study and do other reading tasks more effectively. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G via nabs-l >>> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:42 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I hope everyone is having a wonderful Sunday afternoonh. I have noticed, as I am sure most of you have, there are some pieces of assistive technology such as, the Braille note,which are obsolete becoming due to the fact many people are preferring to use the iPad, iPhone and other Iproducts with Braille displays. I just was wondering, how many of you are still using your Braille notes, and if so, what benefits do you see in using the Braille note over using any of the -iproducts? I will agree that the iPad, iPhone and so on, are great pieces of technology and it is great that blind individuals are able to use the products without having to purchase any additional software to make them accessible, but I know that I still love using my Braille note, and it is kind of sad to see some of these old, but great pieces of technology go out of the window. Thank you for your input. >>> GG >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki > Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México > RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From mikgephart at icloud.com Mon Aug 11 16:44:33 2014 From: mikgephart at icloud.com (Mikayla Gephart) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:44:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistance with Purchasing Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <00b401cfb4f9$688385a0$398a90e0$@gmail.com> References: <00b401cfb4f9$688385a0$398a90e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <65B5C621-9F43-41CD-9ABE-C36B33F149D8@icloud.com> Let me know what I can do, as I chose the apex over the iPad. What state do you live in? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:15 PM, justin williams via nabs-l wrote: > > That is not acting in the consumers' best interest. Write you own > justification and exactly why it willhelp you. > Explain the advantages of having the note taker over the ipad and braille > display. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G via > nabs-l > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Assistance with Purchasing Assistive Technology > > Hi all, > I was wondering if anyone knew of any organizations that would assist a > blind individual in purchasing a piece of assistive technology? I am wanting > to purchase the Braillenote Apex for school, and I am not getting any > assistance from my local blindness organization. I have had conversations > with my rehab counselor, and they informed me that if any assistive > technology was authorized, it would only be the iPad with braille display. > Thanks for any suggestions or advice. > GG > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 16:47:59 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:47:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <47DE4D28-BC95-4168-A15C-0CB809FCEDFB@gmail.com> References: <566ABE87D4A24944B96C1FE193E165D7@Gloria> <789916F1F4D348EA83A1B61B58EFABE3@OwnerPC> <59A10327-9421-4BAF-87E7-801D08C60104@gmail.com> <53E83414.2020503@gmail.com> <47DE4D28-BC95-4168-A15C-0CB809FCEDFB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <008401cfb584$085fa470$191eed50$@gmail.com> The braille sense is awesome though. Carrying a braille display around just to use it on an I pad or I phone seems more effort than necessary. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 12:36 PM To: Gerardo Corripio; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology Hello all, I still have my braille note apex and pull it out occasionally. More often than not I'm using it as a braille display for my iPhone. I can appreciate the advantages of traditional notetakers that are being brought up but, honestly, I think it's only a matter of time before braille support on iOS or android surpasses anything The note taker companies can come up with on their shoestring budgets. Freedom scientific saw the writing on the wall years ago, before anybody else in the market. Human where was a couple years slower, At least they have been trying to update hkeysoft every now and again but it's a losing battle and I think they know it. They've certainly updated their braille displays, modernize the Victor Stream, even made a screen reader for BlackBerries… but no new note taker since early 2010.Hims, It seems to me, is the last holdout. I'll be curious if they are able to put out one more braille sense model before market forces convince them it's a silly idea. Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 10, 2014, at 9:10 PM, Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l wrote: > > Also, people don't have the false impression that you're listening to music, or listening to your screen reader's voice, thus easier for them to come up and talk to you when they don't see nothing in your ears! As some of you have said, definitely more equal when we use Braille for editing and for working/writing! > > El 10/08/2014 04:15 p.m., Sofia Gallo via nabs-l escribió: >> Agree with Ashey. I don't like using speech while trying to listen to a proffesor and it's also easier to edit. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 10, 2014, at 5:08 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> hi, >>> I think the major issue with the braille notetakers is expense. I bet ya if they were more affordable; maybe a third of the price, more consumers would buy them or consumer's families would. >>> >>> Like you I love my braille note and hope they make them for years to come. >>> I see many benefits and we already discuss this on list. >>> I'll just say, I love the ease of use; the fact I can type in the braille wordprocessor in braille and read it. >>> I hate relying on speech and have to hear voice over with the ipod for music. >>> Its not easy for me. >>> With the notetaker, I read and write and use the calendar to my heart's content, using braille only. I like this and feel it makes me more equal. >>> I don't have to struggle with synthetic speech then. now you may argue, you can buy a braille display with the ipad or ipod touch. True, but you still don't have the ease of functionality for editing as with the notetaker; with the notetaker, I can use my placemarkers and find command and of course cursor routing keys. This enables me to study and do other reading tasks more effectively. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G via nabs-l >>> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:42 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I hope everyone is having a wonderful Sunday afternoonh. I have noticed, as I am sure most of you have, there are some pieces of assistive technology such as, the Braille note,which are obsolete becoming due to the fact many people are preferring to use the iPad, iPhone and other Iproducts with Braille displays. I just was wondering, how many of you are still using your Braille notes, and if so, what benefits do you see in using the Braille note over using any of the -iproducts? I will agree that the iPad, iPhone and so on, are great pieces of technology and it is great that blind individuals are able to use the products without having to purchase any additional software to make them accessible, but I know that I still love using my Braille note, and it is kind of sad to see some of these old, but great pieces of technology go out of the window. Thank you for your input. >>> GG >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>> rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40g >>> mail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail. >> com > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde > Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de > psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com From MarianneRobbins2011 at comcast.net Mon Aug 11 17:09:38 2014 From: MarianneRobbins2011 at comcast.net (Marianne Hewitt Robbins) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 10:09:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] list manners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6521B7C4-034A-4AC4-AC43-5C7CEF7E16D9@comcast.net> I agree there has been an increase of inappropriate (and at times mean-spirited) commentary on the list. While I strongly support and welcome the right of list participants to express a wide variety of viewpoints and opinions on diverse topics I do think some stricter moderation is appropriate. I disagree with some who may argue that moderation is an imposition on the right to free speech. In fact, moderation supports civil discourse and diversity. Thank you Marianne Hewitt Robbins MarianneRobbins2011 at comcast.net "Love is an Action Word." "Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now." Mr. Rogers From matt.dierckens at me.com Mon Aug 11 18:34:37 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 14:34:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <8D183985F5170B7-124-17351@webmail-vm072.sysops.aol.com> References: <53e8b78d.6d80320a.518a.ffff8bd7@mx.google.com> <8D183985F5170B7-124-17351@webmail-vm072.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <38204AAB-450A-485C-9094-B2E16359781F@me.com> Hello. I agree with what all has been said here. Thank you. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2014, at 12:28, Miso Kwak via nabs-l wrote: > > Hello, > I have been off of the listserve for a while and came back just a few days ago. > Eve now I don't read everything that is sent on the list so I have less ground to speak from. > Being searched by your future boss is certainly something to be concerned about. However, bigger picture here is plain integrity and respect in general. > These two concepts are hard to grasp and I do not mean that I am perfect in mastering these virtues. > What I am intending to say is that we, as people who affiliate ourselves with the National Federation of the Blind, seeking greater independence and dignity as blind people, should strive for these virtues and practice to our best. > As for reasons mentioned above, I don't think I am at a right place to suggest some practical solutions at the moment. > I am just here to take what I need and want and help out if I can. > I just would like to ask everyone to think twice before you click the send button. > I wrote about integrity and respect because I value those virtues and care what kind of people I surround myself with as well as how I present myself to others. > Thank you for reading. > Miso Kwak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth Taurasi via nabs-l > To: blindcowgirl1993 ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 5:31 am > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > > I agree. I've been slammed for writing "garbage". So I want > this listserv to serve as a polite resource of info. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l To: Mary Fernandez ,National Association > of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 08:25:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > > Hello, > I agree that some reform does need to take place. I have seen > more and more frequently the manners that some people choose to > display on this list. It is unfortunate because you are impacting > yourself should your future boss choose to do a Google search of > your name. I don't think that limiting who can subscribe will > help, as those who subscribe with malicious intent can always > fabricate responses to a generated form. I think we need to rely > more on people's senses of respect, and also need to more > strictly enforce the rules of the list, e.g. not slamming anyone, > being polite, etc. > > Aleeha Dudley > Vice President > Ohio Association of blind students. > > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l > wrote: > > Good evening all, > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or > lack > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on > the > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to > be a > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, > parents > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means > that > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, > anyone, > conducts a Google search. > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, > which > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you > contact them > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and > forth, > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards > others. > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among > list > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion > about > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but > I'm > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite > and > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have > strong > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my > email > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. > > Thank you, > Sincerely, > Your list moderator, > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made > them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1 > 993%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From ligne14 at verizon.net Mon Aug 11 21:02:19 2014 From: ligne14 at verizon.net (Sami Osborne) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:02:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] question about WiFi networks Message-ID: <0NA500MPZUGOYC70@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> Hi all, I am currently on vacation in France for 3 weeks to visit my family. We are currently staying with my grandmother, and I have noticed something very strange about her WiFi network. I was able to enter the network password successfuly on all of my devices (my BrailleNote, iPad and Victor Reader Stream) however, for some reason, thenetwork was not letting me connect from within my bedroom. I know this because I have attempted to connect from my room on all 3 of my assistive devices, and have noticed that the WiFi was very slow and kept receiveing an error message saying that the connection was unsuccessful. My only option so far was to go to my grandmother's living room, where the connection was stable. I therefore find it really strange that it would work in one room but not another. Do you guys know any possible reasons for this? Could the slow network issue be it? Would my grandmother maybe want to talk to the network provider to try to figure this out? Also can you offer any possible solutions for any of my assistive technologies I use (again, my BrailleNote, iPad and Victor Reader Stream.) Thank you for your replies. Thanks, Sami. From kmaent1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 21:29:08 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:29:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] question about WiFi networks Message-ID: <53e935de.e4ea320a.4ad5.7e79@mx.google.com> Hi Sami, that's actually quite normal. In larger houses or older houses with thick walls the strength of the network tends to go down as you go away from the wifi router. In addition, the BrailleNote has a fairly week wifi card, so a lot of times you have to be closer to the router to use it than you would with a regular computer. If this is a big problem, your grandmother could get a booster to strengthen the wifi signal, but that probably isn't worth it if all you have to do is go into the living room to get signal. Best, Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: Sami Osborne via nabs-l References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for tracking your location. Arielle On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > What exactly do you want from the app? > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark > via nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE > > Dear listers, > > is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS > navigation? > Sincerely, > Nathan Clark > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From codeofdusk at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 00:29:03 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:29:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] question about WiFi networks In-Reply-To: <0NA500MPZUGOYC70@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0NA500MPZUGOYC70@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <028e01cfb5c4$6c253930$446fab90$@gmail.com> There's nothing odd about that. IEEE802.11 uses a radio signal. The closer to the transmitter, the more stable your connection. As you move away from the transmitter, connection stability starts to drop. I would suggest you get an 802.11AC compliant access point/router/whatever, but most blindy devices are still on 802.11G or 802.11B so you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the new standards. I would look in your admin UI for a TX power setting, raising that causes the AP/router/whatever to emit a stronger signal. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sami Osborne via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:02 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] question about WiFi networks Hi all, I am currently on vacation in France for 3 weeks to visit my family. We are currently staying with my grandmother, and I have noticed something very strange about her WiFi network. I was able to enter the network password successfuly on all of my devices (my BrailleNote, iPad and Victor Reader Stream) however, for some reason, thenetwork was not letting me connect from within my bedroom. I know this because I have attempted to connect from my room on all 3 of my assistive devices, and have noticed that the WiFi was very slow and kept receiveing an error message saying that the connection was unsuccessful. My only option so far was to go to my grandmother's living room, where the connection was stable. I therefore find it really strange that it would work in one room but not another. Do you guys know any possible reasons for this? Could the slow network issue be it? Would my grandmother maybe want to talk to the network provider to try to figure this out? Also can you offer any possible solutions for any of my assistive technologies I use (again, my BrailleNote, iPad and Victor Reader Stream.) Thank you for your replies. Thanks, Sami. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From cape.amanda at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 00:33:51 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:33:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8A03F588-75FA-4ABE-8FB9-69CD4FAFBBD9@gmail.com> Does anyone know how to set seeing eye to find a bus stop? Amanda > On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > > I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or > tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for > tracking your location. > Arielle > >> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >> What exactly do you want from the app? >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark >> via nabs-l >> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >> >> Dear listers, >> >> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >> navigation? >> Sincerely, >> Nathan Clark >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 00:53:19 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:53:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> I really like seeing eyes gps. It's surprisingly accurate even in nyc, with the limitations of any gps software of course. Sofia Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > > I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or > tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for > tracking your location. > Arielle > >> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >> What exactly do you want from the app? >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark >> via nabs-l >> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >> >> Dear listers, >> >> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >> navigation? >> Sincerely, >> Nathan Clark >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 00:55:20 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:55:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: <8A03F588-75FA-4ABE-8FB9-69CD4FAFBBD9@gmail.com> References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> <8A03F588-75FA-4ABE-8FB9-69CD4FAFBBD9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Amanda, seeing eye doesn't have that feature:) Sofia Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:33 PM, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: > > Does anyone know how to set seeing eye to find a bus stop? > > Amanda > >> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >> >> I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or >> tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for >> tracking your location. >> Arielle >> >>> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >>> What exactly do you want from the app? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark >>> via nabs-l >>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >>> >>> Dear listers, >>> >>> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >>> navigation? >>> Sincerely, >>> Nathan Clark >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From matt.dierckens at me.com Tue Aug 12 01:02:22 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:02:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> I personally like blind square. I tried the Seeing eye GPS and its really good, but didn't have the $10 a month. Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ On Aug 11, 2014, at 20:53, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > I really like seeing eyes gps. It's surprisingly accurate even in nyc, with the limitations of any gps software of course. > > Sofia > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >> >> I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or >> tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for >> tracking your location. >> Arielle >> >>> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >>> What exactly do you want from the app? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark >>> via nabs-l >>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >>> >>> Dear listers, >>> >>> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >>> navigation? >>> Sincerely, >>> Nathan Clark >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From gpaikens at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 01:34:10 2014 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:34:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> Message-ID: Forgive me if I’m jumping in late on this thread and already missed the answer, but what do Seeing Eye GPS and Blind square offer that can’t be accomplished with a mainstream GPS app? I generally just use the apple maps and get walking directions and I used to use Navigon before apple included Maps in the IOS. These aren’t my favorite solutions but generally work. If there are features that make these apps better, what are they? Thanks, Greg On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l wrote: > I personally like blind square. I tried the Seeing eye GPS and its really good, but didn't have the $10 a month. > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > > On Aug 11, 2014, at 20:53, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > >> I really like seeing eyes gps. It's surprisingly accurate even in nyc, with the limitations of any gps software of course. >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or >>> tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for >>> tracking your location. >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >>>> What exactly do you want from the app? >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark >>>> via nabs-l >>>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >>>> >>>> Dear listers, >>>> >>>> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >>>> navigation? >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Nathan Clark >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 01:35:34 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:35:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> Message-ID: <018f01cfb5cd$b697ab70$23c70250$@gmail.com> Okay, so you use apple maps and not google maps? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Aikens via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 9:34 PM To: Matthew Dierckens; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE Forgive me if I'm jumping in late on this thread and already missed the answer, but what do Seeing Eye GPS and Blind square offer that can't be accomplished with a mainstream GPS app? I generally just use the apple maps and get walking directions and I used to use Navigon before apple included Maps in the IOS. These aren't my favorite solutions but generally work. If there are features that make these apps better, what are they? Thanks, Greg On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l wrote: > I personally like blind square. I tried the Seeing eye GPS and its really good, but didn't have the $10 a month. > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course > available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > > On Aug 11, 2014, at 20:53, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > >> I really like seeing eyes gps. It's surprisingly accurate even in nyc, with the limitations of any gps software of course. >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place >>> or tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative >>> for tracking your location. >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >>>> What exactly do you want from the app? >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan >>>> Clark via nabs-l >>>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >>>> >>>> Dear listers, >>>> >>>> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >>>> navigation? >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Nathan Clark >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40 >> me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.c > om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 01:42:29 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:42:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> Message-ID: <2A5BCF98-2B6E-4E19-97AC-DD31DA90D1EA@gmail.com> I've never tried main stream apps, but seeing eye gives turn by turn audio directions as you walk which i find useful. Sofia Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:34 PM, Greg Aikens via nabs-l wrote: > > Forgive me if I’m jumping in late on this thread and already missed the answer, but what do Seeing Eye GPS and Blind square offer that can’t be accomplished with a mainstream GPS app? I generally just use the apple maps and get walking directions and I used to use Navigon before apple included Maps in the IOS. These aren’t my favorite solutions but generally work. If there are features that make these apps better, what are they? > > Thanks, > Greg > >> On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l wrote: >> >> I personally like blind square. I tried the Seeing eye GPS and its really good, but didn't have the $10 a month. >> Matthew Dierckens >> Macintosh Trainer >> Blind Access Training >> www.blindaccesstraining.com >> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >> >>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 20:53, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> I really like seeing eyes gps. It's surprisingly accurate even in nyc, with the limitations of any gps software of course. >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> >>>> I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or >>>> tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for >>>> tracking your location. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> What exactly do you want from the app? >>>>> >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark >>>>> via nabs-l >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >>>>> >>>>> Dear listers, >>>>> >>>>> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >>>>> navigation? >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 01:51:36 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 18:51:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: <2A5BCF98-2B6E-4E19-97AC-DD31DA90D1EA@gmail.com> References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> <2A5BCF98-2B6E-4E19-97AC-DD31DA90D1EA@gmail.com> Message-ID: And I find that with almost every mainstream navigation app, it's too easy to get trapped in a maze of inaccessible map without being able to find any controls. Apps made for the sighted are extremely map-heavy and even if they include a feature like directions it's not a central part of the app. I prefer to use apps designed to be used without the map component. However, Seeing Eye is also great for showing a sighted person how to get from one place to another. It has a map but that's just in one tab, so it's easy to move in and out of. Arielle On 8/11/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > I've never tried main stream apps, but seeing eye gives turn by turn audio > directions as you walk which i find useful. > > Sofia > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:34 PM, Greg Aikens via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Forgive me if I’m jumping in late on this thread and already missed the >> answer, but what do Seeing Eye GPS and Blind square offer that can’t be >> accomplished with a mainstream GPS app? I generally just use the apple >> maps and get walking directions and I used to use Navigon before apple >> included Maps in the IOS. These aren’t my favorite solutions but generally >> work. If there are features that make these apps better, what are they? >> >> Thanks, >> Greg >> >>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> I personally like blind square. I tried the Seeing eye GPS and its really >>> good, but didn't have the $10 a month. >>> Matthew Dierckens >>> Macintosh Trainer >>> Blind Access Training >>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>> >>>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 20:53, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I really like seeing eyes gps. It's surprisingly accurate even in nyc, >>>> with the limitations of any gps software of course. >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or >>>>> tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for >>>>> tracking your location. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>> What exactly do you want from the app? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan >>>>>> Clark >>>>>> via nabs-l >>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear listers, >>>>>> >>>>>> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >>>>>> navigation? >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From cape.amanda at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 02:37:33 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 22:37:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> Message-ID: <2574463A-2BCA-4FB6-920D-B05CD7EF15B6@gmail.com> Hey, What does blind square do differently than seeing eye? Amanda > On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l wrote: > > I personally like blind square. I tried the Seeing eye GPS and its really good, but didn't have the $10 a month. > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > >> On Aug 11, 2014, at 20:53, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >> I really like seeing eyes gps. It's surprisingly accurate even in nyc, with the limitations of any gps software of course. >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or >>> tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for >>> tracking your location. >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >>>> What exactly do you want from the app? >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark >>>> via nabs-l >>>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >>>> >>>> Dear listers, >>>> >>>> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >>>> navigation? >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Nathan Clark >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 02:40:06 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:40:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> <2A5BCF98-2B6E-4E19-97AC-DD31DA90D1EA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3803C787-5F71-496B-9F57-03F8DB4A3DBF@gmail.com> I, for one, hey turn by turn audio directions. I suppose it's a personal preference thing but they mostly just bug and distract me. :-) if I need walking directions to a certain place I will typically have Google or Apple maps open to give me those walking instructions and ariadne also open to track where I am. I'll also occasionally open sendero lookaround to give me extra feedback about the area around me like what the closest street is if there's nobody I can ask, etc. I know that sort of style doesn't work for everybody, especially people who don't like frequently flipping between apps but it saves me money and does pretty much everything I need it to. :-) Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2014, at 7:51 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > > And I find that with almost every mainstream navigation app, it's too > easy to get trapped in a maze of inaccessible map without being able > to find any controls. Apps made for the sighted are extremely > map-heavy and even if they include a feature like directions it's not > a central part of the app. I prefer to use apps designed to be used > without the map component. However, Seeing Eye is also great for > showing a sighted person how to get from one place to another. It has > a map but that's just in one tab, so it's easy to move in and out of. > Arielle > >> On 8/11/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> I've never tried main stream apps, but seeing eye gives turn by turn audio >> directions as you walk which i find useful. >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:34 PM, Greg Aikens via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Forgive me if I’m jumping in late on this thread and already missed the >>> answer, but what do Seeing Eye GPS and Blind square offer that can’t be >>> accomplished with a mainstream GPS app? I generally just use the apple >>> maps and get walking directions and I used to use Navigon before apple >>> included Maps in the IOS. These aren’t my favorite solutions but generally >>> work. If there are features that make these apps better, what are they? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Greg >>> >>>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I personally like blind square. I tried the Seeing eye GPS and its really >>>> good, but didn't have the $10 a month. >>>> Matthew Dierckens >>>> Macintosh Trainer >>>> Blind Access Training >>>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>>> >>>>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 20:53, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I really like seeing eyes gps. It's surprisingly accurate even in nyc, >>>>> with the limitations of any gps software of course. >>>>> >>>>> Sofia >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or >>>>>> tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for >>>>>> tracking your location. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>> What exactly do you want from the app? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan >>>>>>> Clark >>>>>>> via nabs-l >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear listers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >>>>>>> navigation? >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 02:42:40 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:42:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> <2A5BCF98-2B6E-4E19-97AC-DD31DA90D1EA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <89393767-BAB3-4B95-A3BD-0CF0598D2E92@gmail.com> Amanda, Sorry for the double post but if you are looking for an app that specifically tells you where bus stops are you might consider hopstop. Also, there are all sorts of third-party apps for specific cities which obviously very in quality so you might want to do some research there. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2014, at 7:51 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > > And I find that with almost every mainstream navigation app, it's too > easy to get trapped in a maze of inaccessible map without being able > to find any controls. Apps made for the sighted are extremely > map-heavy and even if they include a feature like directions it's not > a central part of the app. I prefer to use apps designed to be used > without the map component. However, Seeing Eye is also great for > showing a sighted person how to get from one place to another. It has > a map but that's just in one tab, so it's easy to move in and out of. > Arielle > >> On 8/11/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> I've never tried main stream apps, but seeing eye gives turn by turn audio >> directions as you walk which i find useful. >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:34 PM, Greg Aikens via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Forgive me if I’m jumping in late on this thread and already missed the >>> answer, but what do Seeing Eye GPS and Blind square offer that can’t be >>> accomplished with a mainstream GPS app? I generally just use the apple >>> maps and get walking directions and I used to use Navigon before apple >>> included Maps in the IOS. These aren’t my favorite solutions but generally >>> work. If there are features that make these apps better, what are they? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Greg >>> >>>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I personally like blind square. I tried the Seeing eye GPS and its really >>>> good, but didn't have the $10 a month. >>>> Matthew Dierckens >>>> Macintosh Trainer >>>> Blind Access Training >>>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>>> >>>>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 20:53, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I really like seeing eyes gps. It's surprisingly accurate even in nyc, >>>>> with the limitations of any gps software of course. >>>>> >>>>> Sofia >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or >>>>>> tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for >>>>>> tracking your location. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>> What exactly do you want from the app? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan >>>>>>> Clark >>>>>>> via nabs-l >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear listers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >>>>>>> navigation? >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From jhud7789 at outlook.com Tue Aug 12 02:52:29 2014 From: jhud7789 at outlook.com (Joseph Hudson) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:52:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: References: <017301cfb55e$a15fd800$e41f8800$@gmail.com> <31DB73A8-A01B-4FD8-9BC0-4FE3C9DB6AD8@gmail.com> <0C1F82A6-D791-486C-8E14-7062C39055A2@me.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I kind of feel like the conversation we are having is a little off-topic for this list. So if I could, I would like to recommend a good group and a serious group forgot to also expressed to you are interested in talking about Apple products and GPS apps. Subscription info and information about the group will be below. apple 4beginners- subscribe at yahoogroups.com So when you get your confirmation e-mail from 65 into the group. There will be a short survey, but you can copy and paste into a Word document. So let out, it's reply buttons and it will go back to the owners so they can better assist you if you need me. I hope I did not cause too much trouble. On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:34 PM, Greg Aikens via nabs-l wrote: > Forgive me if I’m jumping in late on this thread and already missed the answer, but what do Seeing Eye GPS and Blind square offer that can’t be accomplished with a mainstream GPS app? I generally just use the apple maps and get walking directions and I used to use Navigon before apple included Maps in the IOS. These aren’t my favorite solutions but generally work. If there are features that make these apps better, what are they? > > Thanks, > Greg > > On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l wrote: > >> I personally like blind square. I tried the Seeing eye GPS and its really good, but didn't have the $10 a month. >> Matthew Dierckens >> Macintosh Trainer >> Blind Access Training >> www.blindaccesstraining.com >> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >> >> On Aug 11, 2014, at 20:53, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >>> I really like seeing eyes gps. It's surprisingly accurate even in nyc, with the limitations of any gps software of course. >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> >>>> I would recommend Seeing Eye GPS for getting directions to a place or >>>> tracking your location, and Ariadne GPS as a cheaper alternative for >>>> tracking your location. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> On 8/11/14, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> What exactly do you want from the app? >>>>> >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark >>>>> via nabs-l >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE >>>>> >>>>> Dear listers, >>>>> >>>>> is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS >>>>> navigation? >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 03:45:27 2014 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:45:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Survey Opportunity--Enter a Drawing for $25 Message-ID: Hello, My name is Cindy and I work with a team of researchers at the University of Washington. We are interested in learning what values are important to people who are blind or low vision as they travel in their environment. We have created a quick, online survey that you can fill out to help us understand how to better design technology that can help people who are blind and low vision travel more safely and independently and support values that are important to you. The requirements for this survey are as follows: You must be at least 18 years old. You must identify as either blind or low vision. The survey can be found here. https://catalyst.uw.edu/webq/survey/bennec3/244507 If you take this survey, you will have the opportunity to enter your name in to a drawing for one of two $25 gift cards to Amazon.com. If you choose to enter the drawing, you will be asked to provide a piece of contact information so we can contact you if you win. If you live in King County, Washington, you will also have the opportunity to indicate whether you are interested in participating in a follow-up phone interview. There are no foreseeable risks for filling out this survey. You can skip any question you do not want to answer and you can close the survey at any time. This will cause your survey to end and we will not see any answers you have entered. There is no direct benefit for participating except that you will be entered in to the drawing mentioned above, but your feedback will positively benefit the design of new technologies to help people who are blind and low vision to travel more safely and independently. Your survey answers will be kept confidential. Your contact information will be stored separately from your answers. All research data are stored on secure University of Washington servers and computers. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us at stopinfo at onebusaway.org Thank you, Cindy -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 17:51:06 2014 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Bacchus) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:51:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Re- The Nfb timeraining Centers Message-ID: <53ea543e.06ceec0a.3354.55df@mx.google.com> Dear Students, I'd like to post my thoughts about the Nfb training centers. I think that each of these centers do a great job of preparing their students for college and the working world. As a college student I think that attending a training center allows us to enhance the skills that we have received prior to attending one of the Nfb training centers. When I was in elementary school, my mom and I spent a weekend at the Rehab Center for the Blind and Visually impaired in Daytona Beach, Florida. During this event I learned how to prepare sandwiches for lunch. Since then my independence has decreased and my mom and sisters have continued to help me with certain tasks. A few years ago I began to heat my own food in the microwave for lunch. From jab2bs at mtmail.mtsu.edu Tue Aug 12 19:16:05 2014 From: jab2bs at mtmail.mtsu.edu (James Alan Boehm) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:16:05 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Question For Former Stats SPSS Users Message-ID: <14BA5D0B-BDD9-4130-BA33-0CB41EE20D46@mtmail.mtsu.edu> Good day. I will begin taking a statistics course in the fall;the teacher notified me that SPSS is used. THe research that I have done so far has not been very encouraging. Have any of you used SPSS? How accessible is it? What problems did you hav? How have you worked with your professors in order to perform the class assignments etc? Thankyou for your input. You may also contact me at jab2bs at mtmail.mtsu.edu James Alan Boehm Phone: 901-483-1515 Personal Email: jimmydagerman80 at gmail.com Refer NFB correspondences to: secretary at nfb-tn.org "Blindness never limits- Low expectations do! Live the life you want!" From hope.paulos at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 19:35:35 2014 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:35:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question For Former Stats SPSS Users In-Reply-To: <14BA5D0B-BDD9-4130-BA33-0CB41EE20D46@mtmail.mtsu.edu> References: <14BA5D0B-BDD9-4130-BA33-0CB41EE20D46@mtmail.mtsu.edu> Message-ID: If I remember correctly, there are SPSS scripts for jaws. I don't know where they can be found, but I'm sure if you Google it, it will come up. :-) I took a statistics course, and actually use Excel. Hope Paulos > On Aug 12, 2014, at 3:16 PM, James Alan Boehm via nabs-l wrote: > > Good day. > I will begin taking a statistics course in the fall;the teacher notified me that SPSS is used. THe research that I have done so far has not been very encouraging. Have any of you used SPSS? How accessible is it? What problems did you hav? How have you worked with your professors in order to perform the class assignments etc? > Thankyou for your input. You may also contact me at jab2bs at mtmail.mtsu.edu > > > James Alan Boehm > Phone: 901-483-1515 > Personal Email: jimmydagerman80 at gmail.com > Refer NFB correspondences to: > secretary at nfb-tn.org > > "Blindness never limits- Low expectations do! Live the life you want!" > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 22:51:15 2014 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:51:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Re- The Nfb timeraining Centers In-Reply-To: <53ea543e.06ceec0a.3354.55df@mx.google.com> References: <53ea543e.06ceec0a.3354.55df@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, Roana, I am a little confused as to what you are trying to achieve with this message. Are you asking for other's opinions on the centers, wanting to know how to get into one, or how to increase independence? I was a little confused by your first statement that the centers do a great job of preparing students for independent college life, followed by your description of your situation and the rehab center in Daytona Beach. I hope fellow listers can help in the way that you are seeking with some clarification. On 8/12/14, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l wrote: > Dear Students, > > I'd like to post my thoughts about the Nfb training centers. I > think that each of these centers do a great job of preparing > their students for college and the working world. As a college > student I think that attending a training center allows us to > enhance the skills that we have received prior to attending one > of the Nfb training centers. When I was in elementary school, my > mom and I spent a weekend at the Rehab Center for the Blind and > Visually impaired in Daytona Beach, Florida. During this event I > learned how to prepare sandwiches for lunch. Since then my > independence has decreased and my mom and sisters have continued > to help me with certain tasks. A few years ago I began to heat > my own food in the microwave for lunch. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From lilliepennington at fuse.net Tue Aug 12 23:00:58 2014 From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:00:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Re- The Nfb timeraining Centers In-Reply-To: References: <53ea543e.06ceec0a.3354.55df@mx.google.com> Message-ID: She may be trying to say that the nfb model of training works better than that of training provided by individual states, although I could be wrong. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2014, at 6:51 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi, Roana, > > I am a little confused as to what you are trying to achieve with this > message. Are you asking for other's opinions on the centers, wanting > to know how to get into one, or how to increase independence? I was a > little confused by your first statement that the centers do a great > job of preparing students for independent college life, followed by > your description of your situation and the rehab center in Daytona > Beach. I hope fellow listers can help in the way that you are seeking > with some clarification. > >> On 8/12/14, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l wrote: >> Dear Students, >> >> I'd like to post my thoughts about the Nfb training centers. I >> think that each of these centers do a great job of preparing >> their students for college and the working world. As a college >> student I think that attending a training center allows us to >> enhance the skills that we have received prior to attending one >> of the Nfb training centers. When I was in elementary school, my >> mom and I spent a weekend at the Rehab Center for the Blind and >> Visually impaired in Daytona Beach, Florida. During this event I >> learned how to prepare sandwiches for lunch. Since then my >> independence has decreased and my mom and sisters have continued >> to help me with certain tasks. A few years ago I began to heat >> my own food in the microwave for lunch. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 23:20:12 2014 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:20:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <38204AAB-450A-485C-9094-B2E16359781F@me.com> References: <53e8b78d.6d80320a.518a.ffff8bd7@mx.google.com> <8D183985F5170B7-124-17351@webmail-vm072.sysops.aol.com> <38204AAB-450A-485C-9094-B2E16359781F@me.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I am pleased to say that a lot of student federationists I know and highly respect have already posted on this thread, and they have similar views to mine on this topic. I will add the following. The fact is, it seems some either have forgotten or do not realize that everyone is entitled to have their own opinion. You don't have to necessarily agree with it or like it, but you owe your fellow NABS members the integrity and respect that Miso talked about to let them have their own opinion. Slamming someone else for having personal preferences on different topics just makes you seem disagreeable in the long run, not to mention that the other person in addition to other students on the list might not necessarily always agree with your personal opinions or preferences either. Just because something doesn't fit in with your view of the world, it doesn't mean that it is wrong, or make it right for you to champion your own opinions with insults at the other person's expense. You can just as easily politely state your countering opinion without putting others down, there is no need for that on a list serve that is supposed to be supportive. Saying I disagree because X Y Z is enough. On the other hand, the bra size thing was totally uncalled for, and was probably as inappropriate as you could get on a public forum like this. That was simply completely unacceptable, as I'm sure we can all agree. I don't know what the moderating rules are, but perhaps there should be some checks and balances set up. I do not think they should be sent out once a month, as I think like with other sites it is the individual's responsibility to personally gain information on terms of service, policies, etc. Some kind of a warning system might be good for policing negative list content. For example, the bra size comment and really inappropriate or offensive content might garner an immediate booting from the list, whereas profanity or a harsh email might be met with an email advising the person to watch their tone or language in the future. If a person receives a certain number of warnings in a given time, they might be eligible for removal from the list. I think that would be a fair system, but with a list this size I am not sure how practical it would be to implement. Just a thought. On 8/11/14, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l wrote: > Hello. > I agree with what all has been said here. Thank you. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2014, at 12:28, Miso Kwak via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> I have been off of the listserve for a while and came back just a few days >> ago. >> Eve now I don't read everything that is sent on the list so I have less >> ground to speak from. >> Being searched by your future boss is certainly something to be concerned >> about. However, bigger picture here is plain integrity and respect in >> general. >> These two concepts are hard to grasp and I do not mean that I am perfect >> in mastering these virtues. >> What I am intending to say is that we, as people who affiliate ourselves >> with the National Federation of the Blind, seeking greater independence >> and dignity as blind people, should strive for these virtues and practice >> to our best. >> As for reasons mentioned above, I don't think I am at a right place to >> suggest some practical solutions at the moment. >> I am just here to take what I need and want and help out if I can. >> I just would like to ask everyone to think twice before you click the send >> button. >> I wrote about integrity and respect because I value those virtues and care >> what kind of people I surround myself with as well as how I present myself >> to others. >> Thank you for reading. >> Miso Kwak >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth Taurasi via nabs-l >> To: blindcowgirl1993 ; National Association of >> Blind Students mailing list >> Sent: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 5:31 am >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> I agree. I've been slammed for writing "garbage". So I want >> this listserv to serve as a polite resource of info. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l > To: Mary Fernandez ,National Association >> of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 08:25:57 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> Hello, >> I agree that some reform does need to take place. I have seen >> more and more frequently the manners that some people choose to >> display on this list. It is unfortunate because you are impacting >> yourself should your future boss choose to do a Google search of >> your name. I don't think that limiting who can subscribe will >> help, as those who subscribe with malicious intent can always >> fabricate responses to a generated form. I think we need to rely >> more on people's senses of respect, and also need to more >> strictly enforce the rules of the list, e.g. not slamming anyone, >> being polite, etc. >> >> Aleeha Dudley >> Vice President >> Ohio Association of blind students. >> >> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Good evening all, >> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >> lack >> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >> the >> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >> be a >> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >> parents >> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means >> that >> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >> anyone, >> conducts a Google search. >> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >> which >> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >> contact them >> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >> forth, >> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >> others. >> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >> list >> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >> about >> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >> I'm >> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite >> and >> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >> strong >> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >> email >> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> >> Thank you, >> Sincerely, >> Your list moderator, >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> them >> feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1 >> 993%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 23:46:17 2014 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:46:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Universities with a Graduate Program for Special Education of the Blind Message-ID: Hi all, I'm researching schools that have a graduate program for special education of the glind. I know about Louisiana Tech University, North Carolina Central University, Northern Illinois University, and have seen mention of possibly the University of Arizona at Tucson. Does anyone know any others? The first three I mentioned, I have ruled out for personal reasons that I won't go into here. ~Jewel From jorgeapaez1994 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 23:48:38 2014 From: jorgeapaez1994 at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:48:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Universities with a Graduate Program for Special Education of the Blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hunter College in New York has a very good one, and I believe Columbia University also has one but I'm less sure about that one. On 8/12/14, Jewel via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I'm researching schools that have a graduate program for special > education of the glind. I know about Louisiana Tech University, North > Carolina Central University, Northern Illinois University, and have > seen mention of possibly the University of Arizona at Tucson. Does > anyone know any others? The first three I mentioned, I have ruled out > for personal reasons that I won't go into here. > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40gmail.com > From kwakmiso at aol.com Tue Aug 12 23:53:58 2014 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Universities with a Graduate Program for Special Education of the Blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D1849FD1668160-58C-23F75@webmail-va003.sysops.aol.com> I believe Boston University and California State University Los Angeles have these programs as well. Perhaps San Fransisco State and/or University of San Fransisco as well. Please correct me if I am wrong. Miso Kwak -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez via nabs-l To: Jewel ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Tue, Aug 12, 2014 4:49 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Universities with a Graduate Program for Special Education of the Blind Hunter College in New York has a very good one, and I believe Columbia University also has one but I'm less sure about that one. On 8/12/14, Jewel via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I'm researching schools that have a graduate program for special > education of the glind. I know about Louisiana Tech University, North > Carolina Central University, Northern Illinois University, and have > seen mention of possibly the University of Arizona at Tucson. Does > anyone know any others? The first three I mentioned, I have ruled out > for personal reasons that I won't go into here. > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From amanie1226 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 00:52:30 2014 From: amanie1226 at gmail.com (amanie) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:52:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Universities with a Graduate Program for Special Education of the Blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5CA8BCCD-1DEC-42CF-9D50-606ABD448AE8@gmail.com> Dominican College in New York also has a program pertaining to special education and teaching the blind and visually impaired. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2014, at 7:46 PM, Jewel via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > I'm researching schools that have a graduate program for special > education of the glind. I know about Louisiana Tech University, North > Carolina Central University, Northern Illinois University, and have > seen mention of possibly the University of Arizona at Tucson. Does > anyone know any others? The first three I mentioned, I have ruled out > for personal reasons that I won't go into here. > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amanie1226%40gmail.com From kcj21 at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 13 01:21:09 2014 From: kcj21 at bellsouth.net (kcj21) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:21:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: <53e8b78d.6d80320a.518a.ffff8bd7@mx.google.com> <8D183985F5170B7-124-17351@webmail-vm072.sysops.aol.com> <38204AAB-450A-485C-9094-B2E16359781F@me.com> Message-ID: <1407892869.12143.YahooMailNeo@web180906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I too agree that there has been a lack of courtesy on the NABS mailing list . I agree with the suggestions and observations that were previously state, but I'd also like to point out that there have been a lot of people disparaging others' questions. Assume that the questioner has already researched this topic and for whatever reason was unsuccessful or is seeking additional feedback. Please do not reply to their question by telling them to check the manual or do a Google search. If you personally do not know the answer, you don't have to respond. We should all respect each others' questions. Thank you, Kaley On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 7:20 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: Hi all, I am pleased to say that a lot of student federationists I know and highly respect have already posted on this thread, and they have similar views to mine on this topic.  I will add the following. The fact is, it seems some either have forgotten or do not realize that everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.  You don't have to necessarily agree with it or like it, but you owe your fellow NABS members the integrity and respect that Miso talked about to let them have their own opinion.  Slamming someone else for having personal preferences on different topics just makes you seem disagreeable in the long run, not to mention that the other person in addition to other students on the list might not necessarily always agree with your personal opinions or preferences either.  Just because something doesn't fit in with your view of the world, it doesn't mean that it is wrong, or make it right for you to champion your own opinions with insults at the other person's expense.  You can just as easily politely state your countering opinion without putting others down, there is no need for that on a list serve that is supposed to be supportive.  Saying I disagree because X Y Z is enough.  On the other hand, the bra size thing was totally uncalled for, and was probably as inappropriate as you could get on a public forum like this.  That was simply completely unacceptable, as I'm sure we can all agree. I don't know what the moderating rules are, but perhaps there should be some checks and balances set up.  I do not think they should be sent out once a month, as I think like with other sites it is the individual's responsibility to personally gain information on terms of service, policies, etc.  Some kind of a warning system might be good for policing negative list content.  For example, the bra size comment and really inappropriate or offensive content might garner an immediate booting from the list, whereas profanity or a harsh email might be met with an email advising the person to watch their tone or language in the future.  If a person receives a certain number of warnings in a given time, they might be eligible for removal from the list.  I think that would be a fair system, but with a list this size I am not sure how practical it would be to implement.  Just a thought. On 8/11/14, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l wrote: > Hello. > I agree with what all has been said here. Thank you. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2014, at 12:28, Miso Kwak via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> I have been off of the listserve for a while and came back just a few days >> ago. >> Eve now I don't read everything that is sent on the list so I have less >> ground to speak from. >> Being searched by your future boss is certainly something to be concerned >> about. However, bigger picture here is plain integrity and respect in >> general. >> These two concepts are hard to grasp and I do not mean that I am perfect >> in mastering these virtues. >> What I am intending to say is that we, as people who affiliate ourselves >> with the National Federation of the Blind, seeking greater independence >> and dignity as blind people, should strive for these virtues and practice >> to our best. >> As for reasons mentioned above, I don't think I am at a right place to >> suggest some practical solutions at the moment. >> I am just here to take what I need and want and help out if I can. >> I just would like to ask everyone to think twice before you click the send >> button. >> I wrote about integrity and respect because I value those virtues and care >> what kind of people I surround myself with as well as how I present myself >> to others. >> Thank you for reading. >> Miso Kwak >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth Taurasi via nabs-l >> To: blindcowgirl1993 ; National Association of >> Blind Students mailing list >> Sent: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 5:31 am >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> I agree.  I've been slammed for writing "garbage".  So I want >> this listserv to serve as a polite resource of info. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l > To: Mary Fernandez ,National Association >> of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 08:25:57 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> Hello, >> I agree that some reform does need to take place. I have seen >> more and more frequently the manners that some people choose to >> display on this list. It is unfortunate because you are impacting >> yourself should your future boss choose to do a Google search of >> your name. I don't think that limiting who can subscribe will >> help, as those who subscribe with malicious intent can always >> fabricate responses to a generated form. I think we need to rely >> more on people's senses of respect, and also need to more >> strictly enforce the rules of the list, e.g. not slamming anyone, >> being polite, etc. >> >> Aleeha Dudley >> Vice President >> Ohio Association of blind students. >> >> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Good evening all, >> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >> lack >> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >> the >> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >> be a >> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >> parents >> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means >> that >> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >> anyone, >> conducts a Google search. >> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >> which >> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >> contact them >> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >> forth, >> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >> others. >> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >> list >> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >> about >> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >> I'm >> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite >> and >> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >> strong >> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >> email >> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> >> Thank you, >> Sincerely, >> Your list moderator, >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> them >> feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1 >> 993%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net From kcj21 at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 13 01:21:09 2014 From: kcj21 at bellsouth.net (kcj21) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:21:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: <53e8b78d.6d80320a.518a.ffff8bd7@mx.google.com> <8D183985F5170B7-124-17351@webmail-vm072.sysops.aol.com> <38204AAB-450A-485C-9094-B2E16359781F@me.com> Message-ID: <1407892869.12143.YahooMailNeo@web180906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I too agree that there has been a lack of courtesy on the NABS mailing list . I agree with the suggestions and observations that were previously state, but I'd also like to point out that there have been a lot of people disparaging others' questions. Assume that the questioner has already researched this topic and for whatever reason was unsuccessful or is seeking additional feedback. Please do not reply to their question by telling them to check the manual or do a Google search. If you personally do not know the answer, you don't have to respond. We should all respect each others' questions. Thank you, Kaley On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 7:20 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: Hi all, I am pleased to say that a lot of student federationists I know and highly respect have already posted on this thread, and they have similar views to mine on this topic.  I will add the following. The fact is, it seems some either have forgotten or do not realize that everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.  You don't have to necessarily agree with it or like it, but you owe your fellow NABS members the integrity and respect that Miso talked about to let them have their own opinion.  Slamming someone else for having personal preferences on different topics just makes you seem disagreeable in the long run, not to mention that the other person in addition to other students on the list might not necessarily always agree with your personal opinions or preferences either.  Just because something doesn't fit in with your view of the world, it doesn't mean that it is wrong, or make it right for you to champion your own opinions with insults at the other person's expense.  You can just as easily politely state your countering opinion without putting others down, there is no need for that on a list serve that is supposed to be supportive.  Saying I disagree because X Y Z is enough.  On the other hand, the bra size thing was totally uncalled for, and was probably as inappropriate as you could get on a public forum like this.  That was simply completely unacceptable, as I'm sure we can all agree. I don't know what the moderating rules are, but perhaps there should be some checks and balances set up.  I do not think they should be sent out once a month, as I think like with other sites it is the individual's responsibility to personally gain information on terms of service, policies, etc.  Some kind of a warning system might be good for policing negative list content.  For example, the bra size comment and really inappropriate or offensive content might garner an immediate booting from the list, whereas profanity or a harsh email might be met with an email advising the person to watch their tone or language in the future.  If a person receives a certain number of warnings in a given time, they might be eligible for removal from the list.  I think that would be a fair system, but with a list this size I am not sure how practical it would be to implement.  Just a thought. On 8/11/14, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l wrote: > Hello. > I agree with what all has been said here. Thank you. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2014, at 12:28, Miso Kwak via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> I have been off of the listserve for a while and came back just a few days >> ago. >> Eve now I don't read everything that is sent on the list so I have less >> ground to speak from. >> Being searched by your future boss is certainly something to be concerned >> about. However, bigger picture here is plain integrity and respect in >> general. >> These two concepts are hard to grasp and I do not mean that I am perfect >> in mastering these virtues. >> What I am intending to say is that we, as people who affiliate ourselves >> with the National Federation of the Blind, seeking greater independence >> and dignity as blind people, should strive for these virtues and practice >> to our best. >> As for reasons mentioned above, I don't think I am at a right place to >> suggest some practical solutions at the moment. >> I am just here to take what I need and want and help out if I can. >> I just would like to ask everyone to think twice before you click the send >> button. >> I wrote about integrity and respect because I value those virtues and care >> what kind of people I surround myself with as well as how I present myself >> to others. >> Thank you for reading. >> Miso Kwak >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth Taurasi via nabs-l >> To: blindcowgirl1993 ; National Association of >> Blind Students mailing list >> Sent: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 5:31 am >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> I agree.  I've been slammed for writing "garbage".  So I want >> this listserv to serve as a polite resource of info. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l > To: Mary Fernandez ,National Association >> of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 08:25:57 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> Hello, >> I agree that some reform does need to take place. I have seen >> more and more frequently the manners that some people choose to >> display on this list. It is unfortunate because you are impacting >> yourself should your future boss choose to do a Google search of >> your name. I don't think that limiting who can subscribe will >> help, as those who subscribe with malicious intent can always >> fabricate responses to a generated form. I think we need to rely >> more on people's senses of respect, and also need to more >> strictly enforce the rules of the list, e.g. not slamming anyone, >> being polite, etc. >> >> Aleeha Dudley >> Vice President >> Ohio Association of blind students. >> >> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Good evening all, >> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >> lack >> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >> the >> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >> be a >> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >> parents >> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means >> that >> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >> anyone, >> conducts a Google search. >> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >> which >> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >> contact them >> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >> forth, >> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >> others. >> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >> list >> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >> about >> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >> I'm >> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite >> and >> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >> strong >> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >> email >> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> >> Thank you, >> Sincerely, >> Your list moderator, >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> them >> feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1 >> 993%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 02:04:28 2014 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:04:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services Message-ID: Hey Everyone: Since I can't go back to school, I have to find a job or something to do. What is it like using Rehab to help you find a job? I'm afraid they will just place me into one of those sheltered workshops doing something simple like for example shredding paper or something like that and then when I want to go back to school my family and my counselor will say something like "This is your job now. You get paid doing this," or something like that and will mess with my head and they will convince me I can't go back to school or anything. How does using Rehab to help you find a job work? How do blind people end up in those sheltered workshops, particularly the ones that pay sub-minimum wages that the NFB has been trying so hard to fight? Does Rehab just place you in a job they want/think you should have just to give you a job? Does Rehab encourage you to do research and look for jobs on your own or do they just dictate to you which ones they feel you should apply for? I have to make an appointment with my rehab counselor and I am really really scared. The counselor I have now is one I really respect. He is a former football player, who actually lost his eyesight playing football for the team/school I am a huge fan of. Because of things that have happened in my past (I won't go into it here, if you want to know more email me off-list) I really look up to, and respect males like my counselor who are really really into sports. Ever since I got this counselor back in 2011, I have always tried to do my best for him. Even though I was absolutely scared to death about going to training at LCB, I pushed myself because I wanted to do well for him and for him to see me as a motivated individual. After completing training, when I would speak to him on the phone, he was always so proud of me. He really thinks I am this motivated individual. Now, the problem is I'm really not like that. I tried going back to school last semester and unintentionally failed out. My counselor does not know this yet, and when I have this meeting I will have to tell him. I myself am very ashamed and embarrassed about what happened in school, and don't really like talking about it with anyone, particularly those I really look up to such as him. I also really know nothing when it comes to just getting a random job when you have no college degree. I'm not sure what I as a blind person I could realistically do. This again really embarrasses me, because I want my counselor to see me as confident, independent, and motivated. Would it be best to maybe apply for a couple of jobs before I go into the meeting so I can tell my counselor I have done a couple of things on my own first? I could apply to our grocery store, or maybe Walmart might be looking for a greeter or something like that... I am just so so afraid I am going into this and will end up totally depending on Rehab for everything and I don't want to do that. Because of my lack of knologe of what I want to do and such, I'm afraid my counselor is just going to place me in some kind of sheltered workshop or something like that and since I can't go back to school for a year, I will get comfortable in said job and then when I want to go back to school or something everyone will convince me otherwise. I guess I just don't want my counselor realizing how much I have slipped since coming back from training. He spent a lot of money to send me to training, and I want to be confident and such the way we were taught at training. But, I'm really really afraid as the meeting progresses he will see through me and figure things out. I just really struggle horribly with self-esteem issues, and when someone says to me "I am so proud of you I sent you to training and now your setting the world on fire," that makes me feel so good and I really want to continue to do well for that person. Any answers/experiences regarding rehab and your counselor you could share would be great! Thanks, Kerri From amc05111 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 02:14:59 2014 From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley and Landon Coleman) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:14:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF's Message-ID: <53EACA23.8080600@gmail.com> Hi all, I hope everyone is doing well tonight. I need to convert several PDF files in to a better format. I will have to this several times in the coming semester. What is the best way of doing this? What are other options in case the best option happens to not work for a time? Thanks for your help! :) -- Thank you Ashley Coleman Phone: 910-549-9306. Email: amc05111 at gmail.com Blinkie Chicks Social Media Manager http://www.blinkiechicks.com/ From franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 02:19:14 2014 From: franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com (jonathan franks) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 21:19:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF's In-Reply-To: <53EACA23.8080600@gmail.com> References: <53EACA23.8080600@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you have a program like Kurzweil or Open Book, you can turn the files into Word documents. From jorgeapaez1994 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 02:19:29 2014 From: jorgeapaez1994 at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:19:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF's In-Reply-To: <53EACA23.8080600@gmail.com> References: <53EACA23.8080600@gmail.com> Message-ID: go to zamzar.com. You upload your files then pick your format and enter your email. Or if you have MS Word, just go to the menu and choose open with word. This only works if you have word 2013 though. On 8/12/14, Ashley and Landon Coleman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I hope everyone is doing well tonight. > > I need to convert several PDF files in to a better format. I will have > to this several times in the coming semester. What is the best way of > doing this? What are other options in case the best option happens to > not work for a time? > > Thanks for your help! :) > -- Thank you Ashley Coleman Phone: 910-549-9306. Email: > amc05111 at gmail.com Blinkie Chicks Social Media Manager > http://www.blinkiechicks.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40gmail.com > From matt.dierckens at me.com Wed Aug 13 02:21:20 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:21:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF's In-Reply-To: References: <53EACA23.8080600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <41CCB264-1792-4FBB-B437-D9C95D5BA360@me.com> You could try PDF2TXT if that's still around. :) HTH. God bless. :) Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 work email:matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Personal email: matt.dierckens at me.com On Aug 12, 2014, at 22:19, Jorge Paez via nabs-l wrote: > go to zamzar.com. > You upload your files then pick your format and enter your email. > Or if you have MS Word, just go to the menu and choose open with word. > This only works if you have word 2013 though. > > > On 8/12/14, Ashley and Landon Coleman via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi all, >> I hope everyone is doing well tonight. >> >> I need to convert several PDF files in to a better format. I will have >> to this several times in the coming semester. What is the best way of >> doing this? What are other options in case the best option happens to >> not work for a time? >> >> Thanks for your help! :) >> -- Thank you Ashley Coleman Phone: 910-549-9306. Email: >> amc05111 at gmail.com Blinkie Chicks Social Media Manager >> http://www.blinkiechicks.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 02:22:55 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:22:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kerri, What's the timeline with school? Are you on probation for a year? It sounds like your counselor is a good guy who'll respect your preferences and won't send you to a workshop or any other job that you don't want. You have to declare a vocational goal and he should help you find jobs that are relevant to that goal. I think you can be clear that you are just looking for temporary work and perhaps some academic coaching or study skills training to help you perform better next time you attend school. Perhaps you could look for an internship in your field or a part-time job along with academic coaching. I strongly encourage you not to give up on school. Instead, really think about what went wrong and how you can do things differently next time. For example, perhaps you struggled because the classes were online and you would do better in a class where you get to know the teacher. Perhaps community college would be a better environment for you than university. These are all things worth discussing with an academic coach, which VR might be able to connect you up with. Best, Arielle On 8/12/14, Kerri Kosten via nabs-l wrote: > Hey Everyone: > > Since I can't go back to school, I have to find a job or something to do. > What is it like using Rehab to help you find a job? > I'm afraid they will just place me into one of those sheltered > workshops doing something simple like for example shredding paper or > something like that and then when I want to go back to school my > family and my counselor will say something like "This is your job now. > You get paid doing this," or something like that and will mess with my > head and they will convince me I can't go back to school or anything. > How does using Rehab to help you find a job work? > How do blind people end up in those sheltered workshops, particularly > the ones that pay sub-minimum wages that the NFB has been trying so > hard to fight? > Does Rehab just place you in a job they want/think you should have > just to give you a job? > Does Rehab encourage you to do research and look for jobs on your own > or do they just dictate to you which ones they feel you should apply > for? > I have to make an appointment with my rehab counselor and I am really > really scared. The counselor I have now is one I really respect. He is > a former football player, who actually lost his eyesight playing > football for the team/school I am a huge fan of. Because of things > that have happened in my past (I won't go into it here, if you want to > know more email me off-list) I really look up to, and respect males > like my counselor who are really really into sports. Ever since I got > this counselor back in 2011, I have always tried to do my best for > him. Even though I was absolutely scared to death about going to > training at LCB, I pushed myself because I wanted to do well for him > and for him to see me as a motivated individual. After completing > training, when I would speak to him on the phone, he was always so > proud of me. He really thinks I am this motivated individual. > Now, the problem is I'm really not like that. I tried going back to > school last semester and unintentionally failed out. My counselor does > not know this yet, and when I have this meeting I will have to tell > him. I myself am very ashamed and embarrassed about what happened in > school, and don't really like talking about it with anyone, > particularly those I really look up to such as him. > I also really know nothing when it comes to just getting a random job > when you have no college degree. I'm not sure what I as a blind person > I could realistically do. This again really embarrasses me, because I > want my counselor to see me as confident, independent, and motivated. > Would it be best to maybe apply for a couple of jobs before I go into > the meeting so I can tell my counselor I have done a couple of things > on my own first? I could apply to our grocery store, or maybe Walmart > might be looking for a greeter or something like that... > I am just so so afraid I am going into this and will end up totally > depending on Rehab for everything and I don't want to do that. > Because of my lack of knologe of what I want to do and such, I'm > afraid my counselor is just going to place me in some kind of > sheltered workshop or something like that and since I can't go back to > school for a year, I will get comfortable in said job and then when I > want to go back to school or something everyone will convince me > otherwise. > I guess I just don't want my counselor realizing how much I have > slipped since coming back from training. He spent a lot of money to > send me to training, and I want to be confident and such the way we > were taught at training. But, I'm really really afraid as the meeting > progresses he will see through me and figure things out. I just really > struggle horribly with self-esteem issues, and when someone says to me > "I am so proud of you I sent you to training and now your setting the > world on fire," that makes me feel so good and I really want to > continue to do well for that person. > Any answers/experiences regarding rehab and your counselor you could > share would be great! > Thanks, > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From bethslists at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 02:23:25 2014 From: bethslists at gmail.com (Beth Taurasi) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:23:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services Message-ID: <53eacc2c.7350320a.7987.090d@mx.google.com> Hey Kerri, Please feel free to call me if you want. I can explain my Rehab situation. Getting a job through Colorado rehab is supposed to be good. However, because of religious factions I was a part of for a short tijme, I was evaluated psychologically for wearing a veil. Ok, I was Muslim, and the Rehab counselor sent me to a biased psychologist who labeled me as pretending to be Arab. I wasn't. I'm Caucasian, so he got it all wrong. He also said that my college major was inappropriate. I wasn't gonna back down, but after dropping my third major in college, I collected a debt of over $2000. I can't even go back to school with debt. I can't pay for schools with loans because ... well, you have to pay them back. I am not motivated whatsoever to do well for a person myself, but I know the feelings you've gone through. Hey, you are welcome to call me. I will put my number at the bottom of this email. Or you can email me your number off list and I'll call you on my cell. Any things you want to talk about are fine. Besides, I think my boyfriend's watching baseball and his Arizona baseball team got rain delayed ... major that they're suposed to play in Ohio. It's getting weird. Anyway, here's my number. Love, Beth Taurasi thebluesisloose at gmail.com (personal email) 720-435-7407 (cell) ----- Original Message ----- From: Kerri Kosten via nabs-l References: <53eacc2c.7350320a.7987.090d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <99615BA16CF04D64878B5A2CECF7134A@robinaPC> Beth, The way you were dressing was inapproaprate it's just that simpple! This wasn't Lets pick on Beth, because she's muslam! You Obay rules as they are given, and you refeused, so you have to deal like everybody else! Quit wining, and make yourself productive! Get back in school, or Get a job! Dr. RJ Sandefur ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" To: "Kerri Kosten" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services > Hey Kerri, > Please feel free to call me if you want. I can explain my Rehab > situation. Getting a job through Colorado rehab is supposed to be good. > However, because of religious factions I was a part of for a short tijme, > I was evaluated psychologically for wearing a veil. Ok, I was Muslim, and > the Rehab counselor sent me to a biased psychologist who labeled me as > pretending to be Arab. I wasn't. I'm Caucasian, so he got it all wrong. > He also said that my college major was inappropriate. I wasn't gonna back > down, but after dropping my third major in college, I collected a debt of > over $2000. I can't even go back to school with debt. I can't pay for > schools with loans because ... well, you have to pay them back. I am not > motivated whatsoever to do well for a person myself, but I know the > feelings you've gone through. Hey, > you are welcome to call me. I will put my number at the bottom of this > email. Or you can email me your number off list and I'll call you on my > cell. Any things you want to talk about are fine. Besides, I think my > boyfriend's watching baseball and his Arizona baseball team got rain > delayed ... major that they're suposed to play in Ohio. It's getting > weird. > Anyway, here's my number. > Love, > Beth Taurasi > thebluesisloose at gmail.com (personal email) > 720-435-7407 (cell) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kerri Kosten via nabs-l To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:04:28 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services > > Hey Everyone: > > Since I can't go back to school, I have to find a job or something to do. > What is it like using Rehab to help you find a job? > I'm afraid they will just place me into one of those sheltered > workshops doing something simple like for example shredding paper or > something like that and then when I want to go back to school my > family and my counselor will say something like "This is your job now. > You get paid doing this," or something like that and will mess with my > head and they will convince me I can't go back to school or anything. > How does using Rehab to help you find a job work? > How do blind people end up in those sheltered workshops, particularly > the ones that pay sub-minimum wages that the NFB has been trying so > hard to fight? > Does Rehab just place you in a job they want/think you should have > just to give you a job? > Does Rehab encourage you to do research and look for jobs on your own > or do they just dictate to you which ones they feel you should apply > for? > I have to make an appointment with my rehab counselor and I am really > really scared. The counselor I have now is one I really respect. He is > a former football player, who actually lost his eyesight playing > football for the team/school I am a huge fan of. Because of things > that have happened in my past (I won't go into it here, if you want to > know more email me off-list) I really look up to, and respect males > like my counselor who are really really into sports. Ever since I got > this counselor back in 2011, I have always tried to do my best for > him. Even though I was absolutely scared to death about going to > training at LCB, I pushed myself because I wanted to do well for him > and for him to see me as a motivated individual. After completing > training, when I would speak to him on the phone, he was always so > proud of me. He really thinks I am this motivated individual. > Now, the problem is I'm really not like that. I tried going back to > school last semester and unintentionally failed out. My counselor does > not know this yet, and when I have this meeting I will have to tell > him. I myself am very ashamed and embarrassed about what happened in > school, and don't really like talking about it with anyone, > particularly those I really look up to such as him. > I also really know nothing when it comes to just getting a random job > when you have no college degree. I'm not sure what I as a blind person > I could realistically do. This again really embarrasses me, because I > want my counselor to see me as confident, independent, and motivated. > Would it be best to maybe apply for a couple of jobs before I go into > the meeting so I can tell my counselor I have done a couple of things > on my own first? I could apply to our grocery store, or maybe Walmart > might be looking for a greeter or something like that... > I am just so so afraid I am going into this and will end up totally > depending on Rehab for everything and I don't want to do that. > Because of my lack of knologe of what I want to do and such, I'm > afraid my counselor is just going to place me in some kind of > sheltered workshop or something like that and since I can't go back to > school for a year, I will get comfortable in said job and then when I > want to go back to school or something everyone will convince me > otherwise. > I guess I just don't want my counselor realizing how much I have > slipped since coming back from training. He spent a lot of money to > send me to training, and I want to be confident and such the way we > were taught at training. But, I'm really really afraid as the meeting > progresses he will see through me and figure things out. I just really > struggle horribly with self-esteem issues, and when someone says to me > "I am so proud of you I sent you to training and now your setting the > world on fire," that makes me feel so good and I really want to > continue to do well for that person. > Any answers/experiences regarding rehab and your counselor you could > share would be great! > Thanks, > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Aug 13 02:47:29 2014 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 21:47:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <1407892869.12143.YahooMailNeo@web180906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53e8b78d.6d80320a.518a.ffff8bd7@mx.google.com> <8D183985F5170B7-124-17351@webmail-vm072.sysops.aol.com> <38204AAB-450A-485C-9094-B2E16359781F@me.com> <1407892869.12143.YahooMailNeo@web180906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What about a conference call about Internet etiquette? Such a topic would not only assist us in dealing with our list issues, but would also be a helpful seminar for people interested in professional environments to attend. Topics might include the following: Definitions of flaming and trolling Things one absolutely should not say Appropriate ways for stating a dissenting opinion What constitutes harassment The impact of gossip and rumors Annoying email and Internet habits Avoiding language that could be construed as sexist, racist, etc. Online conflict resolution techniques. Such as expressing and receiving emotions appropriately The benefits and drawbacks of written communication as opposed to spoken communication How to appropriately respond to someone else who is behaving poorly on list There are plenty of resources on Internet etiquette that conference call facilitators can use to assist in leading the discussion. If it helps, the question anyone on list should ask themselves before posting is whether they would be in barest to read their post sometime in the future. Or, as has already been suggested, would they be embarrassed if a future boss read the post? Respectfully, Jedi Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2014, at 8:21 PM, kcj21 via nabs-l wrote: > > I too agree that there has been a lack of courtesy on the NABS mailing list . I agree with the suggestions and observations that were previously state, but I'd also like to point out that there have been a lot of people disparaging others' questions. Assume that the questioner has already researched this topic and for whatever reason was unsuccessful or is seeking additional feedback. Please do not reply to their question by telling them to check the manual or do a Google search. If you personally do not know the answer, you don't have to respond. We should all respect each others' questions. > > Thank you, > Kaley > > > On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 7:20 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I am pleased to say that a lot of student federationists I know and > highly respect have already posted on this thread, and they have > similar views to mine on this topic. I will add the following. > > The fact is, it seems some either have forgotten or do not realize > that everyone is entitled to have their own opinion. You don't have > to necessarily agree with it or like it, but you owe your fellow NABS > members the integrity and respect that Miso talked about to let them > have their own opinion. Slamming someone else for having personal > preferences on different topics just makes you seem disagreeable in > the long run, not to mention that the other person in addition to > other students on the list might not necessarily always agree with > your personal opinions or preferences either. Just because something > doesn't fit in with your view of the world, it doesn't mean that it is > wrong, or make it right for you to champion your own opinions with > insults at the other person's expense. You can just as easily > politely state your countering opinion without putting others down, > there is no need for that on a list serve that is supposed to be > supportive. Saying I disagree because X Y Z is enough. On the other > hand, the bra size thing was totally uncalled for, and was probably as > inappropriate as you could get on a public forum like this. That was > simply completely unacceptable, as I'm sure we can all agree. > > I don't know what the moderating rules are, but perhaps there should > be some checks and balances set up. I do not think they should be > sent out once a month, as I think like with other sites it is the > individual's responsibility to personally gain information on terms of > service, policies, etc. Some kind of a warning system might be good > for policing negative list content. For example, the bra size comment > and really inappropriate or offensive content might garner an > immediate booting from the list, whereas profanity or a harsh email > might be met with an email advising the person to watch their tone or > language in the future. If a person receives a certain number of > warnings in a given time, they might be eligible for removal from the > list. I think that would be a fair system, but with a list this size > I am not sure how practical it would be to implement. Just a thought. > >> On 8/11/14, Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l wrote: >> Hello. >> I agree with what all has been said here. Thank you. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 12:28, Miso Kwak via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> I have been off of the listserve for a while and came back just a few days >>> ago. >>> Eve now I don't read everything that is sent on the list so I have less >>> ground to speak from. >>> Being searched by your future boss is certainly something to be concerned >>> about. However, bigger picture here is plain integrity and respect in >>> general. >>> These two concepts are hard to grasp and I do not mean that I am perfect >>> in mastering these virtues. >>> What I am intending to say is that we, as people who affiliate ourselves >>> with the National Federation of the Blind, seeking greater independence >>> and dignity as blind people, should strive for these virtues and practice >>> to our best. >>> As for reasons mentioned above, I don't think I am at a right place to >>> suggest some practical solutions at the moment. >>> I am just here to take what I need and want and help out if I can. >>> I just would like to ask everyone to think twice before you click the send >>> button. >>> I wrote about integrity and respect because I value those virtues and care >>> what kind of people I surround myself with as well as how I present myself >>> to others. >>> Thank you for reading. >>> Miso Kwak >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth Taurasi via nabs-l >>> To: blindcowgirl1993 ; National Association of >>> Blind Students mailing list >>> Sent: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 5:31 am >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >>> >>> I agree. I've been slammed for writing "garbage". So I want >>> this listserv to serve as a polite resource of info. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l >> To: Mary Fernandez ,National Association >>> of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 08:25:57 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >>> >>> Hello, >>> I agree that some reform does need to take place. I have seen >>> more and more frequently the manners that some people choose to >>> display on this list. It is unfortunate because you are impacting >>> yourself should your future boss choose to do a Google search of >>> your name. I don't think that limiting who can subscribe will >>> help, as those who subscribe with malicious intent can always >>> fabricate responses to a generated form. I think we need to rely >>> more on people's senses of respect, and also need to more >>> strictly enforce the rules of the list, e.g. not slamming anyone, >>> being polite, etc. >>> >>> Aleeha Dudley >>> Vice President >>> Ohio Association of blind students. >>> >>> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Good evening all, >>> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >>> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >>> lack >>> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >>> the >>> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >>> be a >>> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >>> parents >>> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means >>> that >>> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >>> anyone, >>> conducts a Google search. >>> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >>> which >>> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >>> contact them >>> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >>> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >>> forth, >>> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >>> others. >>> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >>> list >>> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >>> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >>> about >>> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >>> I'm >>> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >>> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite >>> and >>> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >>> strong >>> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >>> email >>> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Sincerely, >>> Your list moderator, >>> >>> -- >>> Mary Fernandez >>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >>> them >>> feel." >>> -- >>> Maya Angelou >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1 >>> 993%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Aug 13 02:53:47 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:53:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services In-Reply-To: <99615BA16CF04D64878B5A2CECF7134A@robinaPC> References: <53eacc2c.7350320a.7987.090d@mx.google.com> <99615BA16CF04D64878B5A2CECF7134A@robinaPC> Message-ID: <8161AF44AC514254AB650915B22EFF4E@OwnerPC> RJ, excuse me. now we were just talking about manners. this was very rude. Who are you to tell Beth what she needs to do. Its very hard to get a job or go to school with debt behind you. I hate when people say just go get a job and blame any person for unemployment. it is not often their fault because many factors have to fall into place to get a job. then, to hear someone blind say this on list really illustrates a lack of empathy. If you were out of work, and someone said this to you, think of how it feels. It may be inappropriate to dress that way, I agree. But to go through a psychologist and be misdiagnosed is a bad experience. So please don't say that kind of stuff again. Also, can we all please spell check and write appropriately? I have seen better writing than this from you. Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: RJ Sandefur via nabs-l Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:33 PM To: Beth Taurasi ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services Beth, The way you were dressing was inapproaprate it's just that simpple! This wasn't Lets pick on Beth, because she's muslam! You Obay rules as they are given, and you refeused, so you have to deal like everybody else! Quit wining, and make yourself productive! Get back in school, or Get a job! Dr. RJ Sandefur ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Taurasi via nabs-l" To: "Kerri Kosten" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services > Hey Kerri, > Please feel free to call me if you want. I can explain my Rehab > situation. Getting a job through Colorado rehab is supposed to be good. > However, because of religious factions I was a part of for a short tijme, > I was evaluated psychologically for wearing a veil. Ok, I was Muslim, and > the Rehab counselor sent me to a biased psychologist who labeled me as > pretending to be Arab. I wasn't. I'm Caucasian, so he got it all wrong. > He also said that my college major was inappropriate. I wasn't gonna back > down, but after dropping my third major in college, I collected a debt of > over $2000. I can't even go back to school with debt. I can't pay for > schools with loans because ... well, you have to pay them back. I am not > motivated whatsoever to do well for a person myself, but I know the > feelings you've gone through. Hey, > you are welcome to call me. I will put my number at the bottom of this > email. Or you can email me your number off list and I'll call you on my > cell. Any things you want to talk about are fine. Besides, I think my > boyfriend's watching baseball and his Arizona baseball team got rain > delayed ... major that they're suposed to play in Ohio. It's getting > weird. > Anyway, here's my number. > Love, > Beth Taurasi > thebluesisloose at gmail.com (personal email) > 720-435-7407 (cell) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kerri Kosten via nabs-l To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:04:28 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services > > Hey Everyone: > > Since I can't go back to school, I have to find a job or something to do. > What is it like using Rehab to help you find a job? > I'm afraid they will just place me into one of those sheltered > workshops doing something simple like for example shredding paper or > something like that and then when I want to go back to school my > family and my counselor will say something like "This is your job now. > You get paid doing this," or something like that and will mess with my > head and they will convince me I can't go back to school or anything. > How does using Rehab to help you find a job work? > How do blind people end up in those sheltered workshops, particularly > the ones that pay sub-minimum wages that the NFB has been trying so > hard to fight? > Does Rehab just place you in a job they want/think you should have > just to give you a job? > Does Rehab encourage you to do research and look for jobs on your own > or do they just dictate to you which ones they feel you should apply > for? > I have to make an appointment with my rehab counselor and I am really > really scared. The counselor I have now is one I really respect. He is > a former football player, who actually lost his eyesight playing > football for the team/school I am a huge fan of. Because of things > that have happened in my past (I won't go into it here, if you want to > know more email me off-list) I really look up to, and respect males > like my counselor who are really really into sports. Ever since I got > this counselor back in 2011, I have always tried to do my best for > him. Even though I was absolutely scared to death about going to > training at LCB, I pushed myself because I wanted to do well for him > and for him to see me as a motivated individual. After completing > training, when I would speak to him on the phone, he was always so > proud of me. He really thinks I am this motivated individual. > Now, the problem is I'm really not like that. I tried going back to > school last semester and unintentionally failed out. My counselor does > not know this yet, and when I have this meeting I will have to tell > him. I myself am very ashamed and embarrassed about what happened in > school, and don't really like talking about it with anyone, > particularly those I really look up to such as him. > I also really know nothing when it comes to just getting a random job > when you have no college degree. I'm not sure what I as a blind person > I could realistically do. This again really embarrasses me, because I > want my counselor to see me as confident, independent, and motivated. > Would it be best to maybe apply for a couple of jobs before I go into > the meeting so I can tell my counselor I have done a couple of things > on my own first? I could apply to our grocery store, or maybe Walmart > might be looking for a greeter or something like that... > I am just so so afraid I am going into this and will end up totally > depending on Rehab for everything and I don't want to do that. > Because of my lack of knologe of what I want to do and such, I'm > afraid my counselor is just going to place me in some kind of > sheltered workshop or something like that and since I can't go back to > school for a year, I will get comfortable in said job and then when I > want to go back to school or something everyone will convince me > otherwise. > I guess I just don't want my counselor realizing how much I have > slipped since coming back from training. He spent a lot of money to > send me to training, and I want to be confident and such the way we > were taught at training. But, I'm really really afraid as the meeting > progresses he will see through me and figure things out. I just really > struggle horribly with self-esteem issues, and when someone says to me > "I am so proud of you I sent you to training and now your setting the > world on fire," that makes me feel so good and I really want to > continue to do well for that person. > Any answers/experiences regarding rehab and your counselor you could > share would be great! > Thanks, > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Aug 13 03:22:22 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 23:22:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6FB3B886228E461CA4110334B8E5BB10@OwnerPC> Kerri, You might do well to see a counselor with such low self esteem. Insurance pays that sort of stuff and if you get medicaid, it will too. I think you need to be more positive and set some goals. As for rehab, I echo Arielle. The counselor sounds open minded. This is what is supposed to happen. Although as you will see in the last part of my message, rehab does not help much. First, I think you need to look for work yourself and have a plan. Take control of it. Rehab may attempt to dictate where you apply or discourage your exploration, but its your life and do what is in your best interest. Second, about rehab. This is what is supposed to occur. You will meet your counselor as you are doing. You will state a vocational goal. You will have an individualized plan for employment, called the IPE for short. Your current services will be on the IPE. Ideally, you and the counselor are involved and agree on the services. Then you sign your IPE; so bring your signature guide. Tell him its temporary work. But make it related to your goal. For instance, you mentioned earlier months back that you might want to be a journalist. So if that's the case, your vr goal is journalist, but your current job goal might be part time newsletter writer or being some communication assistant. I know you went to a center, but if you wish to review or improve any skills, request this. Your state should offer home based services for training; for instance, you might want O&M or pc training. This is on the IPE. Next, you work on your plan. Next, counselors and clients do their part and keep in touch. They work together to find jobs suited to the client's goal. So, your comments about the workshops should not even be an issue. Your counselor legally has to follow your IPE. If they fail to do this and attempt to steer you to a sheltered workshop or any other setting not in your documented best interest, you have the right to complain. So, just be firm and don't let them try to take advantage of you. Now here is what happened with me. Rehab has been little help finding internships and jobs. They tell clients to look for work themselves and do not restrict where you apply to. They only send job leads and such leads are often irrelevant to my skills and goals. I just ignore those. Some rehab agencies try to place clients in jobs just to close their case. It varies significantly from one state to another. So you will have to get a feel for your own state and in particular your counselor. I've had bad counselors, but there are actually counselors who care and do their jobs. As to what you can realistically do without a degree, you can do a lot. Think of your interests. Do you like teaching? Do you like kids? If yes, you could tutor kids or teens in subjects you are strong in. This assumes you can explain the concepts well. Often agencies only hire college educated people as tutors, but I see no reason why you can't just tutor kids on your own; just advertise your services at a local school or day care. Do you like writing? can you work in an office? If yes, jobs such as writer and editor come to mind. Many blind people without degrees work in customer service call centers. Do you think you can do that? A lady in my nfb chapter works for NIB and she used to work for Hyatt. Are you interested? If so, there is a center focused on call center work in NY. It is a great program. You hear from industry experts in the program. You also learn to use common databases you'd use on the job. They call them contact centers; but it’s the same as call center. It is the National Statler center. Google it for more info. Do you like cooking? Maybe you could work in a bakery. I hope these ideas are helpful. I think as long as you have a goal and assert yourself, rehab will not place you in a dumpy job and close your case. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kerri Kosten via nabs-l Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services Hey Everyone: Since I can't go back to school, I have to find a job or something to do. What is it like using Rehab to help you find a job? I'm afraid they will just place me into one of those sheltered workshops doing something simple like for example shredding paper or something like that and then when I want to go back to school my family and my counselor will say something like "This is your job now. You get paid doing this," or something like that and will mess with my head and they will convince me I can't go back to school or anything. How does using Rehab to help you find a job work? How do blind people end up in those sheltered workshops, particularly the ones that pay sub-minimum wages that the NFB has been trying so hard to fight? Does Rehab just place you in a job they want/think you should have just to give you a job? Does Rehab encourage you to do research and look for jobs on your own or do they just dictate to you which ones they feel you should apply for? I have to make an appointment with my rehab counselor and I am really really scared. The counselor I have now is one I really respect. He is a former football player, who actually lost his eyesight playing football for the team/school I am a huge fan of. Because of things that have happened in my past (I won't go into it here, if you want to know more email me off-list) I really look up to, and respect males like my counselor who are really really into sports. Ever since I got this counselor back in 2011, I have always tried to do my best for him. Even though I was absolutely scared to death about going to training at LCB, I pushed myself because I wanted to do well for him and for him to see me as a motivated individual. After completing training, when I would speak to him on the phone, he was always so proud of me. He really thinks I am this motivated individual. Now, the problem is I'm really not like that. I tried going back to school last semester and unintentionally failed out. My counselor does not know this yet, and when I have this meeting I will have to tell him. I myself am very ashamed and embarrassed about what happened in school, and don't really like talking about it with anyone, particularly those I really look up to such as him. I also really know nothing when it comes to just getting a random job when you have no college degree. I'm not sure what I as a blind person I could realistically do. This again really embarrasses me, because I want my counselor to see me as confident, independent, and motivated. Would it be best to maybe apply for a couple of jobs before I go into the meeting so I can tell my counselor I have done a couple of things on my own first? I could apply to our grocery store, or maybe Walmart might be looking for a greeter or something like that... I am just so so afraid I am going into this and will end up totally depending on Rehab for everything and I don't want to do that. Because of my lack of knologe of what I want to do and such, I'm afraid my counselor is just going to place me in some kind of sheltered workshop or something like that and since I can't go back to school for a year, I will get comfortable in said job and then when I want to go back to school or something everyone will convince me otherwise. I guess I just don't want my counselor realizing how much I have slipped since coming back from training. He spent a lot of money to send me to training, and I want to be confident and such the way we were taught at training. But, I'm really really afraid as the meeting progresses he will see through me and figure things out. I just really struggle horribly with self-esteem issues, and when someone says to me "I am so proud of you I sent you to training and now your setting the world on fire," that makes me feel so good and I really want to continue to do well for that person. Any answers/experiences regarding rehab and your counselor you could share would be great! Thanks, Kerri _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From gera1027 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 03:30:05 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:30:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services In-Reply-To: <6FB3B886228E461CA4110334B8E5BB10@OwnerPC> References: <6FB3B886228E461CA4110334B8E5BB10@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <53EADBBD.9050901@gmail.com> Self-esteem, but especially kind of knowing what you want/like, is very important! Just as Ariel said below, I'd have asked these questions, maybe have you visualize based on what you'd said, how you'd feel working in your case, journalism? Visualize in the options ARiel gave like cooking, Tutoring, and really think "ok would I really enjoy this? There's a blog called Tiny Buda over at http://feeds.feedburner.com/tinybuddha which not only is for you, but for the rest of you guys who like these kinds of things. Good luck! Keep us posted! El 12/08/2014 10:22 p.m., Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l escribió: > Kerri, > > You might do well to see a counselor with such low self esteem. > Insurance pays that sort of stuff and if you get medicaid, it will too. > I think you need to be more positive and set some goals. > > As for rehab, I echo Arielle. > The counselor sounds open minded. > This is what is supposed to happen. Although as you will see in the > last part of my message, rehab does not help much. > First, I think you need to look for work yourself and have a plan. > Take control of it. Rehab may attempt to dictate where you apply or > discourage your exploration, but its your life and do what is in your > best interest. > > Second, about rehab. > This is what is supposed to occur. > You will meet your counselor as you are doing. You will state a > vocational goal. You will have an individualized plan for employment, > called the IPE for short. > Your current services will be on the IPE. Ideally, you and the > counselor are involved and agree on the services. Then you sign your > IPE; so bring your signature guide. > > Tell him its temporary work. But make it related to your goal. For > instance, you mentioned earlier months back that you might want to be > a journalist. So if that's the case, your vr goal is journalist, but > your current job goal might be part time newsletter writer or being > some communication assistant. > > I know you went to a center, but if you wish to review or improve any > skills, request this. Your state should offer home based services for > training; for instance, you might want O&M or pc training. > This is on the IPE. > > Next, you work on your plan. > Next, counselors and clients do their part and keep in touch. They > work together to find jobs suited to the client's goal. > > So, your comments about the workshops should not even be an issue. > Your counselor legally has to follow your IPE. If they fail to do this > and attempt to steer you to a sheltered workshop or any other setting > not in your documented best interest, you have the right to complain. > > So, just be firm and don't let them try to take advantage of you. > > Now here is what happened with me. > Rehab has been little help finding internships and jobs. > They tell clients to look for work themselves and do not restrict > where you apply to. > They only send job leads and such leads are often irrelevant to my > skills and goals. > I just ignore those. > > Some rehab agencies try to place clients in jobs just to close their > case. > It varies significantly from one state to another. > So you will have to get a feel for your own state and in particular > your counselor. I've had bad counselors, but there are actually > counselors who care and do their jobs. > > As to what you can realistically do without a degree, you can do a lot. > Think of your interests. Do you like teaching? Do you like kids? If > yes, you could tutor kids or teens in subjects you are strong in. This > assumes you can explain the concepts well. Often agencies only hire > college educated people as tutors, but I see no reason why you can't > just tutor kids on your own; just advertise your services at a local > school or day care. > > Do you like writing? can you work in an office? > If yes, jobs such as writer and editor come to mind. > Many blind people without degrees work in customer service call centers. > Do you think you can do that? > A lady in my nfb chapter works for NIB and she used to work for Hyatt. > > Are you interested? > If so, there is a center focused on call center work in NY. > It is a great program. You hear from industry experts in the program. > You also learn to use common databases you'd use on the job. > They call them contact centers; but it’s the same as call center. > > It is the National Statler center. > Google it for more info. > > Do you like cooking? Maybe you could work in a bakery. > > I hope these ideas are helpful. > I think as long as you have a goal and assert yourself, rehab will not > place you in a dumpy job and close your case. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- From: Kerri Kosten via nabs-l > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:04 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services > > Hey Everyone: > > Since I can't go back to school, I have to find a job or something to do. > What is it like using Rehab to help you find a job? > I'm afraid they will just place me into one of those sheltered > workshops doing something simple like for example shredding paper or > something like that and then when I want to go back to school my > family and my counselor will say something like "This is your job now. > You get paid doing this," or something like that and will mess with my > head and they will convince me I can't go back to school or anything. > How does using Rehab to help you find a job work? > How do blind people end up in those sheltered workshops, particularly > the ones that pay sub-minimum wages that the NFB has been trying so > hard to fight? > Does Rehab just place you in a job they want/think you should have > just to give you a job? > Does Rehab encourage you to do research and look for jobs on your own > or do they just dictate to you which ones they feel you should apply > for? > I have to make an appointment with my rehab counselor and I am really > really scared. The counselor I have now is one I really respect. He is > a former football player, who actually lost his eyesight playing > football for the team/school I am a huge fan of. Because of things > that have happened in my past (I won't go into it here, if you want to > know more email me off-list) I really look up to, and respect males > like my counselor who are really really into sports. Ever since I got > this counselor back in 2011, I have always tried to do my best for > him. Even though I was absolutely scared to death about going to > training at LCB, I pushed myself because I wanted to do well for him > and for him to see me as a motivated individual. After completing > training, when I would speak to him on the phone, he was always so > proud of me. He really thinks I am this motivated individual. > Now, the problem is I'm really not like that. I tried going back to > school last semester and unintentionally failed out. My counselor does > not know this yet, and when I have this meeting I will have to tell > him. I myself am very ashamed and embarrassed about what happened in > school, and don't really like talking about it with anyone, > particularly those I really look up to such as him. > I also really know nothing when it comes to just getting a random job > when you have no college degree. I'm not sure what I as a blind person > I could realistically do. This again really embarrasses me, because I > want my counselor to see me as confident, independent, and motivated. > Would it be best to maybe apply for a couple of jobs before I go into > the meeting so I can tell my counselor I have done a couple of things > on my own first? I could apply to our grocery store, or maybe Walmart > might be looking for a greeter or something like that... > I am just so so afraid I am going into this and will end up totally > depending on Rehab for everything and I don't want to do that. > Because of my lack of knologe of what I want to do and such, I'm > afraid my counselor is just going to place me in some kind of > sheltered workshop or something like that and since I can't go back to > school for a year, I will get comfortable in said job and then when I > want to go back to school or something everyone will convince me > otherwise. > I guess I just don't want my counselor realizing how much I have > slipped since coming back from training. He spent a lot of money to > send me to training, and I want to be confident and such the way we > were taught at training. But, I'm really really afraid as the meeting > progresses he will see through me and figure things out. I just really > struggle horribly with self-esteem issues, and when someone says to me > "I am so proud of you I sent you to training and now your setting the > world on fire," that makes me feel so good and I really want to > continue to do well for that person. > Any answers/experiences regarding rehab and your counselor you could > share would be great! > Thanks, > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 03:41:47 2014 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 23:41:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF's In-Reply-To: <53EACA23.8080600@gmail.com> References: <53EACA23.8080600@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ashley, I use robobraille.org to convert pdf's into accessible formats. It's an awesome resource that convert files really really well. Kurzweil also has the virtual print option for you to convert pdf's into different formats. HTH, Minh On 8/12/14, Ashley and Landon Coleman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I hope everyone is doing well tonight. > > I need to convert several PDF files in to a better format. I will have > to this several times in the coming semester. What is the best way of > doing this? What are other options in case the best option happens to > not work for a time? > > Thanks for your help! :) > -- Thank you Ashley Coleman Phone: 910-549-9306. Email: > amc05111 at gmail.com Blinkie Chicks Social Media Manager > http://www.blinkiechicks.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com > -- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Aug 13 14:42:46 2014 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:42:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] fun with math class: looking for advice Message-ID: <53EB7966.4060502@tysdomain.com> Hello all: Last year in the fall semester, i entered Wentworth and started with precalc. The books unfortunately did not arrive in time, so I was forced to basically sit around until they showed up. When they finally did, I started work, but it turned out that it would need to be extended. The first idea would be that it would be extended over Christmas break, but it turns out we still didn't have all of the books until some time in February, so it had to wait until then. After a lot of back and forth with a professor who was less than helpful, we finally settled on me just teaching myself the last bit of content. It is worth noting here that I had taken two tests and the general idea was that I'd gotten an a' on both of them. I finally finished a few hundred math problems at the end of this semester and sent the whole pile of work off to the professor. I also took the math final yet again, to insure that that grade was accounted for. More than a month and a half later, I finally received a grade and it turns out it was a d'. Here is the letter I wrote to appeal that grade: math grade Prof. *removed*: I am writing in order to appeal my grade for math 250 with Prof. Levy which I took in the fall semester and received a grade for recently. My grade was a D+, which I do not feel is deserved. As you may already know, I requested an I' in the course and wanted to finish it up on my own because multiple chapters of the book that we were using did not come in time for me to complete the course. I was given time over Christmas break, during which I realized that I still did not have the correct chapters; these books did not actually arrive until at least February. During this time, I was basically left to teach myself trig; I had a tutor who is a friend who I asked numerous questions as well as someone I worked with at Wentworth. I invested tremendous time and effort into this class in order to teach myself the materials that I would be required to know for the final. I am appealing this grade for a few different reasons. While I do understand that I did decide to take this course on and finish it myself, I believe I had the right to expect at least some equal treatment as my peers. I never received any feedback on the homework, though I submitted some in the fall and some around the beginning of the spring semester. I also never received feedback for any tests with the exception of the first test, where I met with Prof. Levy in order to go over a couple of graphing questions. I also took the final at the end of the fall semester as I was told to and never received any feedback on that final as well. I was not ever at any point given a chance to review for the final that I took at the end of the spring semester, which essentially left me responsible for knowing the entirety of the course, parts of which I have not seen since that class. Finally, there was one other test, which I was not even able to take because it was not provided in an accessible form; I am totally unaware of what actually happened with that grade or whether or not it was even counted at all. I was, in short totally and completely left to my devices and was unaware of the grade I received until I finally requested it from Bridget while we were meeting. I am also troubled by Prof. Levy's utter lack of response. It took more than a month after the completion of the semester for a grade to be posted; it was only in response to an email I had sent, inquiring about my grade that I received notice that he had handed it to you; my request to Prof. Levy directly for my grade was unanswered. I believe that I went above and beyond in this class in order to teach myself the materials that I needed to know; not only did I study by myself and use every resource possible, but I had no formal instruction. I did not, at any time during this class have any feedback as to my progress; I was left unaware of my grade, even on tests that had been taken in the fall semester and was not told what I could do differently or better, or where I even went wrong in my work. It is now more than a month and a half after the end of the semester and I am finally receiving a much lower grade than I believe I deserve, with no explanation or no solutions to being able to fix it. I was essentially left to hand in a bundle of work and cross my fingers that everything went as I hoped and that my work paid off. Any help you could offer in a solution to this problem would be greatly appreciated. I am troubled at the fact that I received such a low grade and would like to find a way to fix it. Thank you for your time, Tyler Littlefield That letter was sent to the head of the math department here; her response was that the professor had left and there was no way to dispute my grade. As a result, I would have to take an all-or-nothing test, which would demonstrate my knowledge of the contents of the course in question. I wasn't overly thrilled about the idea, but I decided to go forward with it anyway because I really do not want a d' on my transcript for grad school. So, she set a time for a few days in advance and expected me to be there. When I asked if the test would be brailled, she said that we would take it orally: she would read me the questions and I would answer them, then read it back. I told her I could read her my solutions, but I wanted the test in braille. She settled on recording the test so that I could replay it back and I pushed back yet again, telling her that I am required to have the test in braille by law. At this point, she basically said that it was to much time and she wanted to get this over with. I took a trip to the president's office, explained the issue and she emailed me the next day, informing me that they had decided to braille the test and she was sorry she hadn't let me know of that. This email was sent on June 12. On aug 11 (two days ago), I was informed that she hadn't even as of yet converted the test to a document, much less had the test sent off. As many of you may be aware, the brailling process takes quite a lot of time to braille. The idea was that I would take this in the summer, but now I'm going to be taking a test for a class that should have been done almost a year ago in the middle of the semester, with 16, possibly 20 credits of workload on top of that. This is problematic because though I reviewed two months ago, I need time to review closer to the time of the test, as some of this material has not been of use in calculous. I contacted the provost's office and was refered to a deen, who I was told would get in touch with me. Less than two hours later, the head of the math department contacted me by phone to set up a meeting and as of yet, I have not heard back from that office. At this point, I really am unsure what to do. I want to take care of this grade, but if they haven't even bothered to braille the test, I'm going to be forced to cram and hope I can do well. If anyone has any advice or ideas, I'd really appreciate it; I am really sorry for the overly long email. Thanks, -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 15:13:09 2014 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (rbacchus228 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 11:13:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size In-Reply-To: References: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> <43FE34D4892041158B24DA88CC5E33E8@Helga> Message-ID: <980FFDEA-F484-44F9-A602-983F9C5C48E6@gmail.com> This message was sent to the whole list. Sent from my iPad > On Aug 10, 2014, at 10:04 PM, David Andrews via nabs-l wrote: > > Was this message sent to you privately -- or to the whole list. Either way it is totally inappropriate! > > David Andrews, List Owner > > At 05:07 PM 8/10/2014, you wrote: >> Hi all! I apologize for writing the message below, but I was just concern about this. Thanks so much and God bless! :) >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >> -----Original Message----- From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 6:04 PM >> To: J lucas >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students >> Subject: Re: itunes for disclosing your bra size >> >> Hey! J What do you mean that you will help me if I tell you my bra size? >> IJust wondering. I'm not going to do that. Hope to hear from you soon. >> Thanks and God bless! :) >> >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind >> Students >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever >> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >> -----Original Message----- From: J lucas >> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:43 PM >> To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Subject: itunes for disclosing your bra size >> >> Hello Helga, I will definitely show you how to synch songs from CD's >> onto your iTunes if you tell me your bra size ;) > > David Andrews and long white cane Harry. > E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 16:14:34 2014 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:14:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-students-list] NABS Notes: August Edition! In-Reply-To: <000001cfb69a$2413cd10$6c3b6730$@com> References: <000001cfb69a$2413cd10$6c3b6730$@com> Message-ID: Dear Gabe, I received the NABS notes file you send out for August. I am using a Mac, and the file will not open on pages. Might I suggest tat the contents of the newsletter be pasted in the body of the message? Thanks, Antonio On Aug 12, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Gabe Cazares via Nfbnet-students-list wrote: > Howdy NABS, > Attached please find the August edition of the NABS Notes! As always, if you have something to share with the rest of us, be sure to send it to me at gcazares at nfbtx.org. > All the best, > > ...Gabe > > Gabe Cazares > 2ND Vice President > National Association of Blind Students > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > Twitter: @gmcazares and @nabslink > > _______________________________________________ > Nfbnet-students-list mailing list > Nfbnet-students-list at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbnet-students-list_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfbnet-students-list: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbnet-students-list_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 17:25:15 2014 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:25:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Universities with a Graduate Program for Special Education of the Blind In-Reply-To: <5CA8BCCD-1DEC-42CF-9D50-606ABD448AE8@gmail.com> References: <5CA8BCCD-1DEC-42CF-9D50-606ABD448AE8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <70A61180-D797-4925-B70B-2C38C8788169@gmail.com> Hello all, I know that San Francisco State university has a program for orientation and mobility and a program for teacher of blind students, both programs are masters level programs. of course the quality of these programs are really best evaluated by one’s self as it elates to what you want to get out of a program. Darian On Aug 12, 2014, at 5:52 PM, amanie via nabs-l wrote: > Dominican College in New York also has a program pertaining to special education and teaching the blind and visually impaired. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 12, 2014, at 7:46 PM, Jewel via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> I'm researching schools that have a graduate program for special >> education of the glind. I know about Louisiana Tech University, North >> Carolina Central University, Northern Illinois University, and have >> seen mention of possibly the University of Arizona at Tucson. Does >> anyone know any others? The first three I mentioned, I have ruled out >> for personal reasons that I won't go into here. >> ~Jewel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amanie1226%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 17:34:08 2014 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:34:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Universities with a Graduate Program for Special Education of the Blind In-Reply-To: <70A61180-D797-4925-B70B-2C38C8788169@gmail.com> References: <5CA8BCCD-1DEC-42CF-9D50-606ABD448AE8@gmail.com> <70A61180-D797-4925-B70B-2C38C8788169@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, in the great northwest, we have Portland State University. It is in a great metro area with great transportation. We are in dire need of teachers in the northwest; I'm pretty sure 100% of the last few classes at Portland State have left with a job. The cohort runs every 2 years, so you'll have to check on whether they are taking an incoming class when you're interested in applying. I am on the board at the Washington State School for the Blind. We have just got state approval for funding of a house to be built on the property to house interns. So wherever you go, keep that in mind as few internship programs provide that type of support for interns. Vancouver, WA is just across the river from Portland and although a smaller town, Vancouver offers good transportation. Please feel free to contact me off list if you'd like to connect with anyone who has gone through the program. I know several blind people who have gone through the program and who are successfully employed. Cindy On 8/13/14, Darian Smith via nabs-l wrote: > Hello all, > I know that San Francisco State university has a program for orientation > and mobility and a program for teacher of blind students, both programs are > masters level programs. > of course the quality of these programs are really best evaluated by > one's self as it elates to what you want to get out of a program. > Darian > On Aug 12, 2014, at 5:52 PM, amanie via nabs-l wrote: > >> Dominican College in New York also has a program pertaining to special >> education and teaching the blind and visually impaired. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 12, 2014, at 7:46 PM, Jewel via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I'm researching schools that have a graduate program for special >>> education of the glind. I know about Louisiana Tech University, North >>> Carolina Central University, Northern Illinois University, and have >>> seen mention of possibly the University of Arizona at Tucson. Does >>> anyone know any others? The first three I mentioned, I have ruled out >>> for personal reasons that I won't go into here. >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amanie1226%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com From codeofdusk at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 18:13:08 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:13:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF's In-Reply-To: <53EACA23.8080600@gmail.com> References: <53EACA23.8080600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <043301cfb722$3d4029e0$b7c07da0$@gmail.com> Email the file to convert at robobraille.org with "txt" in the subject without the quotes. Leave the body blank. Your file will be returned as a text document. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley and Landon Coleman via nabs-l Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] PDF's Hi all, I hope everyone is doing well tonight. I need to convert several PDF files in to a better format. I will have to this several times in the coming semester. What is the best way of doing this? What are other options in case the best option happens to not work for a time? Thanks for your help! :) -- Thank you Ashley Coleman Phone: 910-549-9306. Email: amc05111 at gmail.com Blinkie Chicks Social Media Manager http://www.blinkiechicks.com/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 18:27:23 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:27:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye Message-ID: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you all know, I’m a Christian! and I’m currently I’m taking a course at my Church where do I need to read the book called “Spirit-Controlled Temperament” by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. In fact, I bought the materials of my course at Church, and the book came with it. However, I can’t find the book in audio, MS word format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I don’t want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 From codeofdusk at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 18:39:20 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:39:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size In-Reply-To: <980FFDEA-F484-44F9-A602-983F9C5C48E6@gmail.com> References: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> <43FE34D4892041158B24DA88CC5E33E8@Helga> <980FFDEA-F484-44F9-A602-983F9C5C48E6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <045901cfb725$e63045f0$b290d1d0$@gmail.com> No it wasn't, it was sent to her privately. She forwarded it. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:13 AM To: David Andrews; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size This message was sent to the whole list. Sent from my iPad > On Aug 10, 2014, at 10:04 PM, David Andrews via nabs-l wrote: > > Was this message sent to you privately -- or to the whole list. Either way it is totally inappropriate! > > David Andrews, List Owner > > At 05:07 PM 8/10/2014, you wrote: >> Hi all! I apologize for writing the message below, but I was just >> concern about this. Thanks so much and God bless! :) >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 6:04 PM >> To: J lucas >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students >> Subject: Re: itunes for disclosing your bra size >> >> Hey! J What do you mean that you will help me if I tell you my bra size? >> IJust wondering. I'm not going to do that. Hope to hear from you soon. >> Thanks and God bless! :) >> >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: J lucas >> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:43 PM >> To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Subject: itunes for disclosing your bra size >> >> Hello Helga, I will definitely show you how to synch songs from CD's >> onto your iTunes if you tell me your bra size ;) > > David Andrews and long white cane Harry. > E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmai > l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez1994 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 19:32:39 2014 From: jorgeapaez1994 at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:32:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> Message-ID: Helga : I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have it. If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my head. Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: > Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you all > know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at my Church > where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled Temperament" by > Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. In fact, I bought the > materials of my course at Church, and the book came with it. However, I > can't find the book in audio, MS word format, or PDF in order to read it. I > just wanted to ask you, did any of you read this book before? If you did, do > you have it, or do you know where I can find it in accessible format? Just > curious! I will really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to > hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) > P.S. If you want to contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do > that since I don't want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind > Students > Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever > believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40gmail.com > From sandragayer7 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 19:37:56 2014 From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:37:56 +0100 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> Message-ID: Hello Helga, Have you tried looking for a Kindle version? Are you comfortable with reading Kindle books? If not, have you considered getting a scanner alongside some speech software for scanning printed materials? Very best wishes, Sandra. On 8/13/14, Jorge Paez via nabs-l wrote: > Helga : > I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have > it. > If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual > books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its > focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my > head. > Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of > faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. > > > > > On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you all >> know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at my Church >> where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled Temperament" >> by >> Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. In fact, I bought >> the >> materials of my course at Church, and the book came with it. However, I >> can't find the book in audio, MS word format, or PDF in order to read it. >> I >> just wanted to ask you, did any of you read this book before? If you did, >> do >> you have it, or do you know where I can find it in accessible format? >> Just >> curious! I will really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope >> to >> hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) >> P.S. If you want to contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can >> do >> that since I don't want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind >> Students >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever >> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com > -- Soprano Singer www.sandragayer.com Broadcast Presenter www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html Voiceover Artist www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer From gera1027 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 21:28:51 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:28:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> Message-ID: <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com> Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: > Helga : > I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have it. > If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual > books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its > focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my > head. > Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of > faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. > > > > > On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you all >> know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at my Church >> where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled Temperament" by >> Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. In fact, I bought the >> materials of my course at Church, and the book came with it. However, I >> can't find the book in audio, MS word format, or PDF in order to read it. I >> just wanted to ask you, did any of you read this book before? If you did, do >> you have it, or do you know where I can find it in accessible format? Just >> curious! I will really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to >> hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) >> P.S. If you want to contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do >> that since I don't want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind >> Students >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever >> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 22:06:33 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 18:06:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size In-Reply-To: <045901cfb725$e63045f0$b290d1d0$@gmail.com> References: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> <43FE34D4892041158B24DA88CC5E33E8@Helga> <980FFDEA-F484-44F9-A602-983F9C5C48E6@gmail.com> <045901cfb725$e63045f0$b290d1d0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a201cfb742$d8cb9960$8a62cc20$@gmail.com> It was still very inappropriate, especially off of an innocent question asked to the list asking for help. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 2:39 PM To: rbacchus228 at gmail.com; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'; 'David Andrews' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size No it wasn't, it was sent to her privately. She forwarded it. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:13 AM To: David Andrews; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size This message was sent to the whole list. Sent from my iPad > On Aug 10, 2014, at 10:04 PM, David Andrews via nabs-l > wrote: > > Was this message sent to you privately -- or to the whole list. > Either way it is totally inappropriate! > > David Andrews, List Owner > > At 05:07 PM 8/10/2014, you wrote: >> Hi all! I apologize for writing the message below, but I was just >> concern about this. Thanks so much and God bless! :) >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 6:04 PM >> To: J lucas >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students >> Subject: Re: itunes for disclosing your bra size >> >> Hey! J What do you mean that you will help me if I tell you my bra size? >> IJust wondering. I'm not going to do that. Hope to hear from you soon. >> Thanks and God bless! :) >> >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: J lucas >> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:43 PM >> To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Subject: itunes for disclosing your bra size >> >> Hello Helga, I will definitely show you how to synch songs from CD's >> onto your iTunes if you tell me your bra size ;) > > David Andrews and long white cane Harry. > E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmai > l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From codeofdusk at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 00:14:59 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:14:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com> References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> No. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: > Helga : > I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have it. > If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual > books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its > focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my > head. > Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of > faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. > > > > > On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you >> all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at >> my Church where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled >> Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. >> In fact, I bought the materials of my course at Church, and the book >> came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS word >> format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any >> of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you >> know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will >> really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear >> from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to >> contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I don't want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 >> gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.c > om -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From tinypaws8491 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 14 00:25:37 2014 From: tinypaws8491 at yahoo.com (Thomas Peralta) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:25:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com> <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1407975937.27371.YahooMailNeo@web126103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Guys! If you look for that author spell his name this way:  Tim LaHaye.  A lot of the time, book sites are really picky about spelling and if you spell it wrong, they will say they can't find it.  It happens to me a lot.  He is the same author who wrote the "Left Behind" series.  He is a Christian minister and is found on a number of sites.  If you go to his site. Tim LaHaye.com., it might be the cheapest price and shipping.  If you by enough, shipping is free.  Good luck and have a great evening!  Tom Peralta/Wisconsin On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 7:15 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: No. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye   Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: > Helga : > I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have it. > If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual > books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its > focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my > head. > Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of > faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. > > > > > On 8/13/14, Helga  via nabs-l  wrote: >> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you >> all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at >> my Church where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled >> Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. >> In fact, I bought the materials of my  course at Church, and the book >> came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS word >> format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any >> of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you >> know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will >> really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear >> from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to >> contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I don't want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 >> gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.c > om -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com/¡los esperamos! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinypaws8491%40yahoo.com From tinypaws8491 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 14 00:25:37 2014 From: tinypaws8491 at yahoo.com (Thomas Peralta) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:25:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com> <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1407975937.27371.YahooMailNeo@web126103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Guys! If you look for that author spell his name this way:  Tim LaHaye.  A lot of the time, book sites are really picky about spelling and if you spell it wrong, they will say they can't find it.  It happens to me a lot.  He is the same author who wrote the "Left Behind" series.  He is a Christian minister and is found on a number of sites.  If you go to his site. Tim LaHaye.com., it might be the cheapest price and shipping.  If you by enough, shipping is free.  Good luck and have a great evening!  Tom Peralta/Wisconsin On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 7:15 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: No. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye   Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: > Helga : > I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have it. > If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual > books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its > focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my > head. > Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of > faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. > > > > > On 8/13/14, Helga  via nabs-l  wrote: >> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you >> all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at >> my Church where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled >> Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. >> In fact, I bought the materials of my  course at Church, and the book >> came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS word >> format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any >> of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you >> know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will >> really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear >> from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to >> contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I don't want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 >> gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.c > om -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com/¡los esperamos! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinypaws8491%40yahoo.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Thu Aug 14 00:32:53 2014 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:32:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size In-Reply-To: <00a201cfb742$d8cb9960$8a62cc20$@gmail.com> References: <6DA27BCFA7C546258FB2420B56E4D7DE@Helga> <43FE34D4892041158B24DA88CC5E33E8@Helga> <980FFDEA-F484-44F9-A602-983F9C5C48E6@gmail.com> <045901cfb725$e63045f0$b290d1d0$@gmail.com> <00a201cfb742$d8cb9960$8a62cc20$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello All, The message that sparked this discussion thread has been dealt with off list. It would be great if we could all move on from this particular message thread. Your cooperation in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of justin williams via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 6:07 PM To: 'Bill K. Dengler'; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'; 'Bill K. Dengler'; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size It was still very inappropriate, especially off of an innocent question asked to the list asking for help. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 2:39 PM To: rbacchus228 at gmail.com; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'; 'David Andrews' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size No it wasn't, it was sent to her privately. She forwarded it. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:13 AM To: David Andrews; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] itunes for disclosing your bra size This message was sent to the whole list. Sent from my iPad > On Aug 10, 2014, at 10:04 PM, David Andrews via nabs-l > wrote: > > Was this message sent to you privately -- or to the whole list. > Either way it is totally inappropriate! > > David Andrews, List Owner > > At 05:07 PM 8/10/2014, you wrote: >> Hi all! I apologize for writing the message below, but I was just >> concern about this. Thanks so much and God bless! :) >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 6:04 PM >> To: J lucas >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students >> Subject: Re: itunes for disclosing your bra size >> >> Hey! J What do you mean that you will help me if I tell you my bra size? >> IJust wondering. I'm not going to do that. Hope to hear from you soon. >> Thanks and God bless! :) >> >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: J lucas >> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:43 PM >> To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Subject: itunes for disclosing your bra size >> >> Hello Helga, I will definitely show you how to synch songs from CD's >> onto your iTunes if you tell me your bra size ;) > > David Andrews and long white cane Harry. > E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmai > l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Thu Aug 14 00:54:15 2014 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:54:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Have You Completed the NABS Members Survey Yet? Message-ID: Hello All, I think there has been some great discussion regarding manners for the email list on here lately. While we may not all agree, I think it is important for everyone to be able to voice their opinions in a way that respects other opinions. And speaking of sharing your opinions, have you taken the time to fill out the NABS members survey yet? There are places on the survey for you to provide written comments on such things as conference call topics, communication, and other comments not covered by other questions in the survey. The survey is completely anonymous, and every member of the NABS board will be able to see the comments made on this survey. However, I am not sure if every NABS board member is subscribed to this email list, so if you want to ensure that your voice is heard by every member of the NABS board, complete the members survey today by visiting http://nabslink.org/member-survey. So, if you are subscribed to this email list, the NABS board wants to hear from you on how NABS is doing including the use of this email list among a few other things. It only takes a few minutes to fill out, so please visit the survey today. Warm regards, Elizabeth From valandkayla at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 01:57:13 2014 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 19:57:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com> <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0438EFAE-7584-4D0F-A017-75F3C3C7D77E@gmail.com> First, I believe focus on the family's website is family.org second, if you have an iPhone, you can get the kendle addition. On Aug 13, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > No. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo > Corripio via nabs-l > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM > To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye > > Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? > > El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: >> Helga : >> I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have > it. >> If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual >> books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its >> focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my >> head. >> Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of >> faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. >> >> >> >> >> On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you >>> all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at >>> my Church where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled >>> Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. >>> In fact, I bought the materials of my course at Church, and the book >>> came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS word >>> format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any >>> of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you >>> know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will >>> really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear >>> from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to >>> contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I don't > want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >>> Helga Schreiber >>> >>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >>> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >>> >>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>> >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >>> 3:16 _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.c >> om > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, > Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación > Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 02:10:35 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:10:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: <0438EFAE-7584-4D0F-A017-75F3C3C7D77E@gmail.com> References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com><001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> <0438EFAE-7584-4D0F-A017-75F3C3C7D77E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Valerie! I just wanted to ask you, is kindle accessible for a blind individual? I'm just wondering since I heard that it is not accessible for the blind! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye First, I believe focus on the family's website is family.org second, if you have an iPhone, you can get the kendle addition. On Aug 13, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > No. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo > Corripio via nabs-l > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM > To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye > > Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? > > El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: >> Helga : >> I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have > it. >> If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual >> books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its >> focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my >> head. >> Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of >> faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. >> >> >> >> >> On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you >>> all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at >>> my Church where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled >>> Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. >>> In fact, I bought the materials of my course at Church, and the book >>> came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS word >>> format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any >>> of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you >>> know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will >>> really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear >>> from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to >>> contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I >>> don't > want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >>> Helga Schreiber >>> >>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >>> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >>> >>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>> >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >>> 3:16 _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.c >> om > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde > Tampico, > Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación > Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 02:13:09 2014 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:13:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com><001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> <0438EFAE-7584-4D0F-A017-75F3C3C7D77E@gmail.com> Message-ID: I know it is on the iPhone. Same to you. :) I haven't checked,, but if you don't want to go that route, and if you have an IOS or mac,,,, you could use ibooks by searching for it on the ibook store. On Aug 13, 2014, at 8:10 PM, wrote: > Hi Valerie! I just wanted to ask you, is kindle accessible for a blind individual? I'm just wondering since I heard that it is not accessible for the blind! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) > > > > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students > Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 > -----Original Message----- From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye > > First, I believe focus on the family's website is family.org > second, if you have an iPhone, you can get the kendle addition. > On Aug 13, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > >> No. >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo >> Corripio via nabs-l >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM >> To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye >> >> Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? >> >> El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: >>> Helga : >>> I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have >> it. >>> If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual >>> books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its >>> focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my >>> head. >>> Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of >>> faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you >>>> all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at >>>> my Church where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled >>>> Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. >>>> In fact, I bought the materials of my course at Church, and the book >>>> came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS word >>>> format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any >>>> of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you >>>> know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will >>>> really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear >>>> from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to >>>> contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I don't >> want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >>>> Helga Schreiber >>>> >>>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >>>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >>>> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >>>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >>>> >>>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>>> >>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >>>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >>>> 3:16 _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.c >>> om >> >> -- >> Enviado desde mi lap >> Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, >> Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación >> Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Aug 14 02:19:54 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:19:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com><001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com><0438EFAE-7584-4D0F-A017-75F3C3C7D77E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <787623B120844562955815EAD7FB04EA@OwnerPC> Hi Helga, As someone else stated, you can use the kindle ap with the iphone or other IOS device if you have it. Yes, the kindle is now accessible; at least one version is. it’s the kindle hd fire. Another way is using the pc software for kindle books; its accessible but I heard its not as good as the Iphone ap. So, if you want to use kindle software or aps, that's an option for you. -----Original Message----- From: Helga via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:10 PM To: Valerie Gibson ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye Hi Valerie! I just wanted to ask you, is kindle accessible for a blind individual? I'm just wondering since I heard that it is not accessible for the blind! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye First, I believe focus on the family's website is family.org second, if you have an iPhone, you can get the kendle addition. On Aug 13, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > No. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo > Corripio via nabs-l > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM > To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye > > Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? > > El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: >> Helga : >> I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have > it. >> If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual >> books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its >> focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my >> head. >> Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of >> faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. >> >> >> >> >> On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you >>> all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at >>> my Church where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled >>> Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. >>> In fact, I bought the materials of my course at Church, and the book >>> came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS word >>> format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any >>> of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you >>> know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will >>> really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear >>> from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to >>> contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I >>> don't > want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >>> Helga Schreiber >>> >>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >>> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >>> >>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>> >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >>> 3:16 _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.c >> om > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde > Tampico, > Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación > Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jorgeapaez1994 at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 02:44:22 2014 From: jorgeapaez1994 at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:44:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: <787623B120844562955815EAD7FB04EA@OwnerPC> References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com> <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> <0438EFAE-7584-4D0F-A017-75F3C3C7D77E@gmail.com> <787623B120844562955815EAD7FB04EA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Nope, NLS and Bookshare don't cary religious specific titles many times. Also, just curious, how is Kindle on IOS? I tried iBooks on IOS and books on there prove to be a bit unreadable at least for me--they are difficult to navigate. Did you read this book on the kindle app? On 8/13/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Helga, > As someone else stated, you can use the kindle ap with the iphone or other > IOS device if you have it. > Yes, the kindle is now accessible; at least one version is. it's the kindle > hd fire. > > Another way is using the pc software for kindle books; its accessible but I > heard its not as good as the Iphone ap. > > So, if you want to use kindle software or aps, that's an option for you. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Helga via nabs-l > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:10 PM > To: Valerie Gibson ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye > > Hi Valerie! I just wanted to ask you, is kindle accessible for a blind > individual? I'm just wondering since I heard that it is not accessible for > the blind! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) > > > > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind > Students > Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever > believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 > -----Original Message----- > From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye > > First, I believe focus on the family's website is family.org > second, if you have an iPhone, you can get the kendle addition. > On Aug 13, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l > wrote: > >> No. >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo >> Corripio via nabs-l >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM >> To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye >> >> Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? >> >> El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: >>> Helga : >>> I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have >> it. >>> If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual >>> books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its >>> focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my >>> head. >>> Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of >>> faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you >>>> all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at >>>> my Church where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled >>>> Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. >>>> In fact, I bought the materials of my course at Church, and the book >>>> came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS word >>>> format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any >>>> of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you >>>> know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will >>>> really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear >>>> from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to >>>> contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I >>>> don't >> want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >>>> Helga Schreiber >>>> >>>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >>>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >>>> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >>>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >>>> >>>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>>> >>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >>>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >>>> 3:16 _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.c >>> om >> >> -- >> Enviado desde mi lap >> Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde >> Tampico, >> Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación >> Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40gmail.com > From michaeldforzano at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 03:04:51 2014 From: michaeldforzano at gmail.com (Michael Forzano) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:04:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] fun with math class: looking for advice In-Reply-To: <53EB7966.4060502@tysdomain.com> References: <53EB7966.4060502@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hi Tyler, I'm not clear how you let two months go buy without checking on the status of your test being brailled. In general, professors have many students and are extremely busy. If you don't hear anything for a period of time, more than likely what you asked for isn't being done/worked on. Also, there are a lot of other ways you could have handled the lack of a textbook. You could have hired a reader or used another edition or a different precalc book available on Learning Ally. I know this is not optimal, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do in order to make the best of a situation. Did you attend the lectures while you were waiting for the book to arrive? This shouldn't require the book and would allow you to at least get some idea of the material. One of my blind friends did fine in precalc knowing that he wouldn't get a braille book at all (and calc 1 and 2 as well, for that matter). He had a reader, he had someone type out some of the questions for him to work on. It's really not impossible. I actually think you made things harder for yourself by taking the extension. I agree that an all-or-nothing test isn't fair, but you got yourself into this situation. The head of the math department doesn't know you or how you did in the class, so what choice do they have? You mentioned that your understanding was that you got an A on some of the exams. Did you follow up with the professor to get an actual grade? Unless the grade is recorded somewhere, it means nothing. At this point, you should stay on top of the head of the department regarding the progress of brailling the test. If you don't hear back, email again. Though good luck, as this is a special situation that is likely pretty low on their priority list. Mike On 8/13/14, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l wrote: > Hello all: > > Last year in the fall semester, i entered Wentworth and started with > precalc. The books unfortunately did not arrive in time, so I was forced > to basically sit around until they showed up. When they finally did, I > started work, but it turned out that it would need to be extended. The > first idea would be that it would be extended over Christmas break, but > it turns out we still didn't have all of the books until some time in > February, so it had to wait until then. > > After a lot of back and forth with a professor who was less than > helpful, we finally settled on me just teaching myself the last bit of > content. It is worth noting here that I had taken two tests and the > general idea was that I'd gotten an a' on both of them. I finally > finished a few hundred math problems at the end of this semester and > sent the whole pile of work off to the professor. I also took the math > final yet again, to insure that that grade was accounted for. More than > a month and a half later, I finally received a grade and it turns out it > was a d'. Here is the letter I wrote to appeal that grade: > math grade > > Prof. *removed*: > > I am writing in order to appeal my grade for math 250 with Prof. Levy > which I took in the fall semester and received a grade for recently. My > grade was > a D+, which I do not feel is deserved. > > As you may already know, I requested an I' in the course and wanted to > finish it up on my own because multiple chapters of the book that we > were using > did not come in time for me to complete the course. I was given time > over Christmas break, during which I realized that I still did not have > the correct > chapters; these books did not actually arrive until at least February. > > During this time, I was basically left to teach myself trig; I had a > tutor who is a friend who I asked numerous questions as well as someone > I worked with > at Wentworth. I invested tremendous time and effort into this class in > order to teach myself the materials that I would be required to know for > the final. > > I am appealing this grade for a few different reasons. While I do > understand that I did decide to take this course on and finish it > myself, I believe I > had the right to expect at least some equal treatment as my peers. I > never received any feedback on the homework, though I submitted some in > the fall and > some around the beginning of the spring semester. I also never received > feedback for any tests with the exception of the first test, where I met > with Prof. > Levy in order to go over a couple of graphing questions. I also took the > final at the end of the fall semester as I was told to and never > received any > feedback on that final as well. I was not ever at any point given a > chance to review for the final that I took at the end of the spring > semester, which > essentially left me responsible for knowing the entirety of the course, > parts of which I have not seen since that class. Finally, there was one > other test, > which I was not even able to take because it was not provided in an > accessible form; I am totally unaware of what actually happened with > that grade or > whether or not it was even counted at all. I was, in short totally and > completely left to my devices and was unaware of the grade I received > until I finally > requested it from Bridget while we were meeting. > > I am also troubled by Prof. Levy's utter lack of response. It took more > than a month after the completion of the semester for a grade to be > posted; it > was only in response to an email I had sent, inquiring about my grade > that I received notice that he had handed it to you; my request to Prof. > Levy directly > for my grade was unanswered. > > I believe that I went above and beyond in this class in order to teach > myself the materials that I needed to know; not only did I study by > myself and use > every resource possible, but I had no formal instruction. I did not, at > any time during this class have any feedback as to my progress; I was > left unaware > of my grade, even on tests that had been taken in the fall semester and > was not told what I could do differently or better, or where I even went > wrong > in my work. It is now more than a month and a half after the end of the > semester and I am finally receiving a much lower grade than I believe I > deserve, > with no explanation or no solutions to being able to fix it. I was > essentially left to hand in a bundle of work and cross my fingers that > everything went as I hoped and that my work paid off. > > Any help you could offer in a solution to this problem would be greatly > appreciated. I am troubled at the fact that I received such a low grade > and would > like to find a way to fix it. > > Thank you for your time, > > Tyler Littlefield > > That letter was sent to the head of the math department here; her > response was that the professor had left and there was no way to dispute > my grade. As a result, I would have to take an all-or-nothing test, > which would demonstrate my knowledge of the contents of the course in > question. I wasn't overly thrilled about the idea, but I decided to go > forward with it anyway because I really do not want a d' on my > transcript for grad school. So, she set a time for a few days in advance > and expected me to be there. When I asked if the test would be brailled, > she said that we would take it orally: she would read me the questions > and I would answer them, then read it back. I told her I could read her > my solutions, but I wanted the test in braille. She settled on recording > the test so that I could replay it back and I pushed back yet again, > telling her that I am required to have the test in braille by law. > > At this point, she basically said that it was to much time and she > wanted to get this over with. I took a trip to the president's office, > explained the issue and she emailed me the next day, informing me that > they had decided to braille the test and she was sorry she hadn't let me > know of that. > > This email was sent on June 12. On aug 11 (two days ago), I was informed > that she hadn't even as of yet converted the test to a document, much > less had the test sent off. As many of you may be aware, the brailling > process takes quite a lot of time to braille. The idea was that I would > take this in the summer, but now I'm going to be taking a test for a > class that should have been done almost a year ago in the middle of the > semester, with 16, possibly 20 credits of workload on top of that. This > is problematic because though I reviewed two months ago, I need time to > review closer to the time of the test, as some of this material has not > been of use in calculous. > > I contacted the provost's office and was refered to a deen, who I was > told would get in touch with me. Less than two hours later, the head of > the math department contacted me by phone to set up a meeting and as of > yet, I have not heard back from that office. > > At this point, I really am unsure what to do. I want to take care of > this grade, but if they haven't even bothered to braille the test, I'm > going to be forced to cram and hope I can do well. If anyone has any > advice or ideas, I'd really appreciate it; I am really sorry for the > overly long email. > Thanks, > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/michaeldforzano%40gmail.com > From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 03:51:43 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 23:51:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] fun with math class: looking for advice In-Reply-To: <53EB7966.4060502@tysdomain.com> References: <53EB7966.4060502@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hi Tyler, this is Helga! I just wanted to tell you that I took pre-calculus class last year on the Fall semester, and I really didn't have all the chapters either! For my class, I only use 8 chapters since the professor only use these ones! I recommend you to take the class again! but not thisthis Fall semester since yu wil be upload with a lot of courses! I think you should take it next year on the Spring Semester, and only take that class in order for you to study very well! And actually, my coleege has my pre calculus books in Braille, if you need them I can probably ask my adviser to talk to your college adviser in order to send the books over there! to your college! By the way, what college are you attending and in what State? Just wondring! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) P.S. If you want to talk regarding this matter off list, you can do that since I don't want to clutter the list! My contact information is located below in my email signature. Thanks again! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:42 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] fun with math class: looking for advice Hello all: Last year in the fall semester, i entered Wentworth and started with precalc. The books unfortunately did not arrive in time, so I was forced to basically sit around until they showed up. When they finally did, I started work, but it turned out that it would need to be extended. The first idea would be that it would be extended over Christmas break, but it turns out we still didn't have all of the books until some time in February, so it had to wait until then. After a lot of back and forth with a professor who was less than helpful, we finally settled on me just teaching myself the last bit of content. It is worth noting here that I had taken two tests and the general idea was that I'd gotten an a' on both of them. I finally finished a few hundred math problems at the end of this semester and sent the whole pile of work off to the professor. I also took the math final yet again, to insure that that grade was accounted for. More than a month and a half later, I finally received a grade and it turns out it was a d'. Here is the letter I wrote to appeal that grade: math grade Prof. *removed*: I am writing in order to appeal my grade for math 250 with Prof. Levy which I took in the fall semester and received a grade for recently. My grade was a D+, which I do not feel is deserved. As you may already know, I requested an I' in the course and wanted to finish it up on my own because multiple chapters of the book that we were using did not come in time for me to complete the course. I was given time over Christmas break, during which I realized that I still did not have the correct chapters; these books did not actually arrive until at least February. During this time, I was basically left to teach myself trig; I had a tutor who is a friend who I asked numerous questions as well as someone I worked with at Wentworth. I invested tremendous time and effort into this class in order to teach myself the materials that I would be required to know for the final. I am appealing this grade for a few different reasons. While I do understand that I did decide to take this course on and finish it myself, I believe I had the right to expect at least some equal treatment as my peers. I never received any feedback on the homework, though I submitted some in the fall and some around the beginning of the spring semester. I also never received feedback for any tests with the exception of the first test, where I met with Prof. Levy in order to go over a couple of graphing questions. I also took the final at the end of the fall semester as I was told to and never received any feedback on that final as well. I was not ever at any point given a chance to review for the final that I took at the end of the spring semester, which essentially left me responsible for knowing the entirety of the course, parts of which I have not seen since that class. Finally, there was one other test, which I was not even able to take because it was not provided in an accessible form; I am totally unaware of what actually happened with that grade or whether or not it was even counted at all. I was, in short totally and completely left to my devices and was unaware of the grade I received until I finally requested it from Bridget while we were meeting. I am also troubled by Prof. Levy's utter lack of response. It took more than a month after the completion of the semester for a grade to be posted; it was only in response to an email I had sent, inquiring about my grade that I received notice that he had handed it to you; my request to Prof. Levy directly for my grade was unanswered. I believe that I went above and beyond in this class in order to teach myself the materials that I needed to know; not only did I study by myself and use every resource possible, but I had no formal instruction. I did not, at any time during this class have any feedback as to my progress; I was left unaware of my grade, even on tests that had been taken in the fall semester and was not told what I could do differently or better, or where I even went wrong in my work. It is now more than a month and a half after the end of the semester and I am finally receiving a much lower grade than I believe I deserve, with no explanation or no solutions to being able to fix it. I was essentially left to hand in a bundle of work and cross my fingers that everything went as I hoped and that my work paid off. Any help you could offer in a solution to this problem would be greatly appreciated. I am troubled at the fact that I received such a low grade and would like to find a way to fix it. Thank you for your time, Tyler Littlefield That letter was sent to the head of the math department here; her response was that the professor had left and there was no way to dispute my grade. As a result, I would have to take an all-or-nothing test, which would demonstrate my knowledge of the contents of the course in question. I wasn't overly thrilled about the idea, but I decided to go forward with it anyway because I really do not want a d' on my transcript for grad school. So, she set a time for a few days in advance and expected me to be there. When I asked if the test would be brailled, she said that we would take it orally: she would read me the questions and I would answer them, then read it back. I told her I could read her my solutions, but I wanted the test in braille. She settled on recording the test so that I could replay it back and I pushed back yet again, telling her that I am required to have the test in braille by law. At this point, she basically said that it was to much time and she wanted to get this over with. I took a trip to the president's office, explained the issue and she emailed me the next day, informing me that they had decided to braille the test and she was sorry she hadn't let me know of that. This email was sent on June 12. On aug 11 (two days ago), I was informed that she hadn't even as of yet converted the test to a document, much less had the test sent off. As many of you may be aware, the brailling process takes quite a lot of time to braille. The idea was that I would take this in the summer, but now I'm going to be taking a test for a class that should have been done almost a year ago in the middle of the semester, with 16, possibly 20 credits of workload on top of that. This is problematic because though I reviewed two months ago, I need time to review closer to the time of the test, as some of this material has not been of use in calculous. I contacted the provost's office and was refered to a deen, who I was told would get in touch with me. Less than two hours later, the head of the math department contacted me by phone to set up a meeting and as of yet, I have not heard back from that office. At this point, I really am unsure what to do. I want to take care of this grade, but if they haven't even bothered to braille the test, I'm going to be forced to cram and hope I can do well. If anyone has any advice or ideas, I'd really appreciate it; I am really sorry for the overly long email. Thanks, -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 04:11:22 2014 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:11:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com> <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> <0438EFAE-7584-4D0F-A017-75F3C3C7D77E@gmail.com> <787623B120844562955815EAD7FB04EA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <03B65F1D-D94F-418B-B835-DFDAB5395F85@gmail.com> I'm not sure why you have problems reading books with Ibooks on IOS. I have never had that trouble. The kendle app could be more accessible, but books can be read, libraries can be browsed . (your own that is.) I don't know why you say that bookshare and NLS don't often carry religious specific books. that is unfounded. Maybe it's just the books you've searched, in which case, it's a sad world. I find that if i cannot find a book on bookshare, I go to ibooks, or kendle, or in the case of textbooks coursesmart. I know it's not taking advantage of every single resource for the blind, but that's just my way. :) On Aug 13, 2014, at 8:44 PM, Jorge Paez via nabs-l wrote: > Nope, NLS and Bookshare don't cary religious specific titles many times. > Also, just curious, how is Kindle on IOS? > I tried iBooks on IOS and books on there prove to be a bit unreadable > at least for me--they are difficult to navigate. > Did you read this book on the kindle app? > > > On 8/13/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Helga, >> As someone else stated, you can use the kindle ap with the iphone or other >> IOS device if you have it. >> Yes, the kindle is now accessible; at least one version is. it's the kindle >> hd fire. >> >> Another way is using the pc software for kindle books; its accessible but I >> heard its not as good as the Iphone ap. >> >> So, if you want to use kindle software or aps, that's an option for you. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Helga via nabs-l >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:10 PM >> To: Valerie Gibson ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye >> >> Hi Valerie! I just wanted to ask you, is kindle accessible for a blind >> individual? I'm just wondering since I heard that it is not accessible for >> the blind! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind >> Students >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever >> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:57 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye >> >> First, I believe focus on the family's website is family.org >> second, if you have an iPhone, you can get the kendle addition. >> On Aug 13, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >>> No. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo >>> Corripio via nabs-l >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM >>> To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye >>> >>> Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? >>> >>> El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: >>>> Helga : >>>> I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should have >>> it. >>>> If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual >>>> books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its >>>> focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of my >>>> head. >>>> Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of >>>> faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you >>>>> all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at >>>>> my Church where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled >>>>> Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. >>>>> In fact, I bought the materials of my course at Church, and the book >>>>> came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS word >>>>> format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any >>>>> of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you >>>>> know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will >>>>> really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear >>>>> from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to >>>>> contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I >>>>> don't >>> want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >>>>> Helga Schreiber >>>>> >>>>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >>>>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >>>>> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >>>>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >>>>> >>>>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>>>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>>>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>>>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>>>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>>>> >>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >>>>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >>>>> 3:16 _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.c >>>> om >>> >>> -- >>> Enviado desde mi lap >>> Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde >>> Tampico, >>> Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación >>> Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From jim.hulme at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 05:16:17 2014 From: jim.hulme at gmail.com (James Hulme) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 01:16:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: <03B65F1D-D94F-418B-B835-DFDAB5395F85@gmail.com> References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com> <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> <0438EFAE-7584-4D0F-A017-75F3C3C7D77E@gmail.com> <787623B120844562955815EAD7FB04EA@OwnerPC> <03B65F1D-D94F-418B-B835-DFDAB5395F85@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Helga, I have tried sending you messages in the past off list and you have not yet replied back. Anyways, I found a PDF version, according to the publisher and its website, there is only a softcover or eBook version. This is a book that is twenty years old. it's available on the publisher's website. Please see the pdf version below: Spirit-controlled temperamentpdfvers I hope this version helps you. Unfortunately, no audio or mp3 version is available for this book title. You could also use either iPhone or Android to listen to the book on your own mobile device. I sometimes use Kindle for Samsung app on my Android device to read my books. It seems to work well, the only problem I found is it is a little fast and hard to turn the pages. Please write me back sometime soon. Have a great summer!! Jimmy Hulme 908-868-2836 (Mobile) jim.hulme at gmail.com On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 12:11 AM, Valerie Gibson via nabs-l < nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote: > I'm not sure why you have problems reading books with Ibooks on IOS. I > have never had that trouble. > The kendle app could be more accessible, but books can be read, libraries > can be browsed . (your own that is.) > I don't know why you say that bookshare and NLS don't often carry > religious specific books. that is unfounded. Maybe it's just the books > you've searched, in which case, it's a sad world. I find that if i cannot > find a book on bookshare, I go to ibooks, or kendle, or in the case of > textbooks coursesmart. I know it's not taking advantage of every single > resource for the blind, but that's just my way. :) > > On Aug 13, 2014, at 8:44 PM, Jorge Paez via nabs-l > wrote: > > > Nope, NLS and Bookshare don't cary religious specific titles many times. > > Also, just curious, how is Kindle on IOS? > > I tried iBooks on IOS and books on there prove to be a bit unreadable > > at least for me--they are difficult to navigate. > > Did you read this book on the kindle app? > > > > > > On 8/13/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > >> Hi Helga, > >> As someone else stated, you can use the kindle ap with the iphone or > other > >> IOS device if you have it. > >> Yes, the kindle is now accessible; at least one version is. it's the > kindle > >> hd fire. > >> > >> Another way is using the pc software for kindle books; its accessible > but I > >> heard its not as good as the Iphone ap. > >> > >> So, if you want to use kindle software or aps, that's an option for you. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Helga via nabs-l > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:10 PM > >> To: Valerie Gibson ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye > >> > >> Hi Valerie! I just wanted to ask you, is kindle accessible for a blind > >> individual? I'm just wondering since I heard that it is not accessible > for > >> the blind! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless! :) > >> > >> > >> > >> Helga Schreiber > >> > >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter > >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of > Blind > >> Students > >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > >> > >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 > >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 > >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > >> > >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that > whoever > >> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:57 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye > >> > >> First, I believe focus on the family's website is family.org > >> second, if you have an iPhone, you can get the kendle addition. > >> On Aug 13, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> No. > >>> > >>> Bill > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo > >>> Corripio via nabs-l > >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM > >>> To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye > >>> > >>> Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? > >>> > >>> El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: > >>>> Helga : > >>>> I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should > have > >>> it. > >>>> If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes spiritual > >>>> books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its > >>>> focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of > my > >>>> head. > >>>> Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot of > >>>> faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: > >>>>> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as you > >>>>> all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a course at > >>>>> my Church where do I need to read the book called "Spirit-Controlled > >>>>> Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. > >>>>> In fact, I bought the materials of my course at Church, and the book > >>>>> came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS word > >>>>> format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, did any > >>>>> of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, or do you > >>>>> know where I can find it in accessible format? Just curious! I will > >>>>> really appreciate it if you could help me with this. Hope to hear > >>>>> from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) P.S. If you want to > >>>>> contact me off list regarding this matter!, you can do that since I > >>>>> don't > >>> want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! > >>>>> Helga Schreiber > >>>>> > >>>>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter > >>>>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of > >>>>> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > >>>>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > >>>>> > >>>>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 > >>>>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > >>>>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 > >>>>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > >>>>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > >>>>> > >>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that > >>>>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John > >>>>> 3:16 _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 > >>>>> gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.c > >>>> om > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Enviado desde mi lap > >>> Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde > >>> Tampico, > >>> Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación > >>> Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jim.hulme%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Aug 14 06:12:19 2014 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 01:12:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About Using Vocational Rehab's Services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think it depends on the quality of your counselor. Some counselors understand that life has its detours and that people want to find work for the meantime that can add to experience needed for a vocational goal without being understood as the manifestation of accomplishing that goal. For example, my counselor set me up with a vocational agency who helped me get a job as a dishwasher so I could get some experience for my resume and so I could earn some extra money. But it was understood by all that washing dishes didn't constitute the realization of my vocational goal and certainly not the end point of my rehabilitation process. Unfortunately, there are also counselors looking for easy closures and or those who don't know what blind people are capable of and so steer these individuals toward low paying dead end jobs that don't meet the requirements of true rehabilitation. You can't control what type of counselor you get more often than not. But if you get the latter type, you need to stay on top of them and your process by knowing your rights and responsibilities, asking good questions, keeping in touch with positive blind role models, and by being willing to appropriately advocate when necessary. Hope that helps. Respectfully, Jedi Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2014, at 9:04 PM, Kerri Kosten via nabs-l wrote: > > Hey Everyone: > > Since I can't go back to school, I have to find a job or something to do. > What is it like using Rehab to help you find a job? > I'm afraid they will just place me into one of those sheltered > workshops doing something simple like for example shredding paper or > something like that and then when I want to go back to school my > family and my counselor will say something like "This is your job now. > You get paid doing this," or something like that and will mess with my > head and they will convince me I can't go back to school or anything. > How does using Rehab to help you find a job work? > How do blind people end up in those sheltered workshops, particularly > the ones that pay sub-minimum wages that the NFB has been trying so > hard to fight? > Does Rehab just place you in a job they want/think you should have > just to give you a job? > Does Rehab encourage you to do research and look for jobs on your own > or do they just dictate to you which ones they feel you should apply > for? > I have to make an appointment with my rehab counselor and I am really > really scared. The counselor I have now is one I really respect. He is > a former football player, who actually lost his eyesight playing > football for the team/school I am a huge fan of. Because of things > that have happened in my past (I won't go into it here, if you want to > know more email me off-list) I really look up to, and respect males > like my counselor who are really really into sports. Ever since I got > this counselor back in 2011, I have always tried to do my best for > him. Even though I was absolutely scared to death about going to > training at LCB, I pushed myself because I wanted to do well for him > and for him to see me as a motivated individual. After completing > training, when I would speak to him on the phone, he was always so > proud of me. He really thinks I am this motivated individual. > Now, the problem is I'm really not like that. I tried going back to > school last semester and unintentionally failed out. My counselor does > not know this yet, and when I have this meeting I will have to tell > him. I myself am very ashamed and embarrassed about what happened in > school, and don't really like talking about it with anyone, > particularly those I really look up to such as him. > I also really know nothing when it comes to just getting a random job > when you have no college degree. I'm not sure what I as a blind person > I could realistically do. This again really embarrasses me, because I > want my counselor to see me as confident, independent, and motivated. > Would it be best to maybe apply for a couple of jobs before I go into > the meeting so I can tell my counselor I have done a couple of things > on my own first? I could apply to our grocery store, or maybe Walmart > might be looking for a greeter or something like that... > I am just so so afraid I am going into this and will end up totally > depending on Rehab for everything and I don't want to do that. > Because of my lack of knologe of what I want to do and such, I'm > afraid my counselor is just going to place me in some kind of > sheltered workshop or something like that and since I can't go back to > school for a year, I will get comfortable in said job and then when I > want to go back to school or something everyone will convince me > otherwise. > I guess I just don't want my counselor realizing how much I have > slipped since coming back from training. He spent a lot of money to > send me to training, and I want to be confident and such the way we > were taught at training. But, I'm really really afraid as the meeting > progresses he will see through me and figure things out. I just really > struggle horribly with self-esteem issues, and when someone says to me > "I am so proud of you I sent you to training and now your setting the > world on fire," that makes me feel so good and I really want to > continue to do well for that person. > Any answers/experiences regarding rehab and your counselor you could > share would be great! > Thanks, > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 11:31:08 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 07:31:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye In-Reply-To: <03B65F1D-D94F-418B-B835-DFDAB5395F85@gmail.com> References: <3960A6BBB9CE4D218250A2739BE50A0B@Helga> <53EBD893.4060507@gmail.com> <001a01cfb754$ca29b2e0$5e7d18a0$@gmail.com> <0438EFAE-7584-4D0F-A017-75F3C3C7D77E@gmail.com> <787623B120844562955815EAD7FB04EA@OwnerPC> <03B65F1D-D94F-418B-B835-DFDAB5395F85@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002f01cfb7b3$3ea455e0$bbed01a0$@gmail.com> Nls has quite a lot of religious selections. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Valerie Gibson via nabs-l Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 12:11 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym Lahaye I'm not sure why you have problems reading books with Ibooks on IOS. I have never had that trouble. The kendle app could be more accessible, but books can be read, libraries can be browsed . (your own that is.) I don't know why you say that bookshare and NLS don't often carry religious specific books. that is unfounded. Maybe it's just the books you've searched, in which case, it's a sad world. I find that if i cannot find a book on bookshare, I go to ibooks, or kendle, or in the case of textbooks coursesmart. I know it's not taking advantage of every single resource for the blind, but that's just my way. :) On Aug 13, 2014, at 8:44 PM, Jorge Paez via nabs-l wrote: > Nope, NLS and Bookshare don't cary religious specific titles many times. > Also, just curious, how is Kindle on IOS? > I tried iBooks on IOS and books on there prove to be a bit unreadable > at least for me--they are difficult to navigate. > Did you read this book on the kindle app? > > > On 8/13/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Helga, >> As someone else stated, you can use the kindle ap with the iphone or >> other IOS device if you have it. >> Yes, the kindle is now accessible; at least one version is. it's the >> kindle hd fire. >> >> Another way is using the pc software for kindle books; its accessible >> but I heard its not as good as the Iphone ap. >> >> So, if you want to use kindle software or aps, that's an option for you. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Helga via nabs-l >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:10 PM >> To: Valerie Gibson ; National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym >> Lahaye >> >> Hi Valerie! I just wanted to ask you, is kindle accessible for a >> blind individual? I'm just wondering since I heard that it is not >> accessible for the blind! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God >> bless! :) >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 -----Original Message----- >> From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:57 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym >> Lahaye >> >> First, I believe focus on the family's website is family.org second, >> if you have an iPhone, you can get the kendle addition. >> On Aug 13, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l >> >> wrote: >> >>> No. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo >>> Corripio via nabs-l >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:29 PM >>> To: Jorge Paez; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Book: Spirit-Controlled Temperament by Tym >>> Lahaye >>> >>> Bookshare or nlsBard? Do they have it? >>> >>> El 13/08/2014 02:32 p.m., Jorge Paez via nabs-l escribió: >>>> Helga : >>>> I have never read that book, but look it up on audible--they should >>>> have >>> it. >>>> If the author is only Christian though--like he only writes >>>> spiritual books, look at Focus On the Family's site, I think its >>>> focusonthefamily.com, or maybe dot org, I'm not sure off the top of >>>> my head. >>>> Anyway, they should have that book in audio because they cary a lot >>>> of faith-related books that aren't usually avalible elsewhere. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/13/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that as >>>>> you all know, I'm a Christian! and I'm currently I'm taking a >>>>> course at my Church where do I need to read the book called >>>>> "Spirit-Controlled Temperament" by Tym Halaye where I need to write a book report of it. >>>>> In fact, I bought the materials of my course at Church, and the >>>>> book came with it. However, I can't find the book in audio, MS >>>>> word format, or PDF in order to read it. I just wanted to ask you, >>>>> did any of you read this book before? If you did, do you have it, >>>>> or do you know where I can find it in accessible format? Just >>>>> curious! I will really appreciate it if you could help me with >>>>> this. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! ) >>>>> P.S. If you want to contact me off list regarding this matter!, >>>>> you can do that since I don't >>> want to clutter thisthis list! Thanks again! >>>>> Helga Schreiber >>>>> >>>>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota >>>>> chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida >>>>> Association of Blind Students Member of The International >>>>> Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company >>>>> 4Life Research >>>>> >>>>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>>>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>>>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>>>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>>>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>>>> >>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, >>>>> that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal >>>>> life." John >>>>> 3:16 _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994 >>>>> %40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmai >>>> l.c >>>> om >>> >>> -- >>> Enviado desde mi lap >>> Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde >>> Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de >>> psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México >>> http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gm >>> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >> thlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez1994%40 >> gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmai > l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From cape.amanda at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 13:32:28 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 09:32:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hop stop Message-ID: <89333916-D15B-41F8-82F6-875C7F7B40DC@gmail.com> Hi, I downloaded hop stop. It looks good so far but does it tell you when approaching or passing a stop in case the driver forgets to announce your stop? Amanda From dandrews at visi.com Thu Aug 14 13:42:40 2014 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 08:42:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: selling a RefreshaBraille 18 cell braille display add Message-ID: > >Hello all, >With the recent release of the Baum Vario Ultra, I have decided I am >if I can sell my RefreshaBraille, I want to upgrade to that display. I >also am including an extra year of warranty until June 10, 2016. >I also bought the just released Executive products leather case for >the display which I will include with the unit for the lowered price >of $1400. Upon payment, I will speak with APH to have the warranty >transfered. The package includes the display, the leather case, a >mini USB cable and I will throw in a wall charger to charge it via the >wall plus the additional extended warranty which if you buy the >display new, is an additional cost. This display will work over USB >or bluetooth and works with all your favorite windows screen readers >as well as VoiceOver on the mac and I devices. >The $1400 price includes shipping to anywhere in the United States. I >accept Pay Pal as form of payment to >richcav1014 at gmail.com >Any questions, let me know. >Have a great day! >Rich Cavallaro >"The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the >characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the >expectations of blind people, because low expectations create >obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can have the life >you want; blindness is not what holds you back." David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From zdreicer at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 14:14:35 2014 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 08:14:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Hop stop In-Reply-To: <89333916-D15B-41F8-82F6-875C7F7B40DC@gmail.com> References: <89333916-D15B-41F8-82F6-875C7F7B40DC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8719F57A-45F9-49BD-9F70-0943F2FC62F1@gmail.com> From what I've experienced of it, no. Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver > On Aug 14, 2014, at 7:32, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi, > I downloaded hop stop. It looks good so far but does it tell you when approaching or passing a stop in case the driver forgets to announce your stop? > > Amanda > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From cape.amanda at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 14:23:33 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:23:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hop stop In-Reply-To: <8719F57A-45F9-49BD-9F70-0943F2FC62F1@gmail.com> References: <89333916-D15B-41F8-82F6-875C7F7B40DC@gmail.com> <8719F57A-45F9-49BD-9F70-0943F2FC62F1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <366C14DA-5BC6-425F-BD7A-9AD675790288@gmail.com> Aw, that really sucks. So how do you know your stop? Amanda > On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:14 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" wrote: > > From what I've experienced of it, no. > > Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver > >> On Aug 14, 2014, at 7:32, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi, >> I downloaded hop stop. It looks good so far but does it tell you when approaching or passing a stop in case the driver forgets to announce your stop? >> >> Amanda >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From zdreicer at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 14:35:46 2014 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 08:35:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Hop stop In-Reply-To: <366C14DA-5BC6-425F-BD7A-9AD675790288@gmail.com> References: <89333916-D15B-41F8-82F6-875C7F7B40DC@gmail.com> <8719F57A-45F9-49BD-9F70-0943F2FC62F1@gmail.com> <366C14DA-5BC6-425F-BD7A-9AD675790288@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9E65518A-97C2-4253-93B4-85902B54DC65@gmail.com> In cities which don't announce what bus stop it is, I do end up having to ask the driver. In Denver where I am, all buses say the bus stops. Perhaps this application does have that feature and I am unaware of it… Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver > On Aug 14, 2014, at 8:23, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote: > > Aw, that really sucks. So how do you know your stop? > > Amanda > >> On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:14 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" wrote: >> >> From what I've experienced of it, no. >> >> Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver >> >>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 7:32, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> I downloaded hop stop. It looks good so far but does it tell you when approaching or passing a stop in case the driver forgets to announce your stop? >>> >>> Amanda >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com in cities that have buses which don't announce which bus stop it is, From dandrews at visi.com Thu Aug 14 14:45:09 2014 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 09:45:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hop stop In-Reply-To: <366C14DA-5BC6-425F-BD7A-9AD675790288@gmail.com> References: <89333916-D15B-41F8-82F6-875C7F7B40DC@gmail.com> <8719F57A-45F9-49BD-9F70-0943F2FC62F1@gmail.com> <366C14DA-5BC6-425F-BD7A-9AD675790288@gmail.com> Message-ID: I use BlindSquare to tell me what streets the bus is crossing. Dave At 09:23 AM 8/14/2014, you wrote: >Aw, that really sucks. So how do you know your stop? > >Amanda > > > On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:14 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" > wrote: > > > > From what I've experienced of it, no. > > > > Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver > > > >> On Aug 14, 2014, at 7:32, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> I downloaded hop stop. It looks good so far but does it tell you > when approaching or passing a stop in case the driver forgets to > announce your stop? > >> > >> Amanda David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From cape.amanda at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 14:46:11 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:46:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hop stop In-Reply-To: <9E65518A-97C2-4253-93B4-85902B54DC65@gmail.com> References: <89333916-D15B-41F8-82F6-875C7F7B40DC@gmail.com> <8719F57A-45F9-49BD-9F70-0943F2FC62F1@gmail.com> <366C14DA-5BC6-425F-BD7A-9AD675790288@gmail.com> <9E65518A-97C2-4253-93B4-85902B54DC65@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8A798D44-012E-4C4C-AE0E-DB6FF99EBF9A@gmail.com> Has the drivers ever forgotten about you? Amanda > On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:35 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" wrote: > > In cities which don't announce what bus stop it is, I do end up having to ask the driver. In Denver where I am, all buses say the bus stops. Perhaps this application does have that feature and I am unaware of it… > > Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver > >> On Aug 14, 2014, at 8:23, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote: >> >> Aw, that really sucks. So how do you know your stop? >> >> Amanda >> >>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:14 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" wrote: >>> >>> From what I've experienced of it, no. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver >>> >>>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 7:32, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I downloaded hop stop. It looks good so far but does it tell you when approaching or passing a stop in case the driver forgets to announce your stop? >>>> >>>> Amanda >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com in cities that have buses which don't announce which bus stop it is, From freethaught at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 15:45:39 2014 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:45:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mary and all, This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been brought up. People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the opportunity to be inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines which suspended or banned people from list for violations. I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, and I never did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and are not relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could have been banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have the chance to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the moderators. Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent enough that they don’t bother me. I don’t complain, hit delete ad move on. One much example are the periodic announcements from David about internet radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide the announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with no stress. I’m sure David’s programs are interesting to some, and I accept a member’s self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about others, or messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and sensitive topics. We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, stay on topic, and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. Antonio On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l wrote: > Good evening all, > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or lack > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on the > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to be a > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, parents > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means that > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, anyone, > conducts a Google search. > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, which > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you contact them > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and forth, > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards others. > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among list > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion about > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but I'm > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite and > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have strong > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my email > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. > > Thank you, > Sincerely, > Your list moderator, > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 15:52:14 2014 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:52:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GPS software for the IPHONE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Nathan, I hope all is well. I would suggest you determine what you want out of GPS programs, research what is available, ad see if these apps fulful your needs. I do fine with Cendero look around when I am traveling since all I need to know is when I am approaching a specific street. If I know I am going in the right direction, Lookaround will give e the information I need. I tried the Seeing Eye app, and I suspect it is very useful. I could not determine this when I tried it since I had to do a lot of setting up, learn the interface, and take the app for a test drive all while out in the freezing New York winter, and 30 minutes to get to where I was going. I reverted to asking people where my street was, heading in that direction, ad using Lookaround with gloves on to see when I got closer to my destination. I hope this helps, Antonio On Aug 11, 2014, at 7:46 AM, Nathan Clark via nabs-l wrote: > Dear listers, > > is there an email thread on pros and cons of i-phone apps for GPS navigation? > Sincerely, > Nathan Clark > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From merlyn_hileman at aol.com Thu Aug 14 16:06:27 2014 From: merlyn_hileman at aol.com (Merlyn Hileman) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Hop stop In-Reply-To: <8A798D44-012E-4C4C-AE0E-DB6FF99EBF9A@gmail.com> References: <8A798D44-012E-4C4C-AE0E-DB6FF99EBF9A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D185F0D68D58F2-1EB4-A068@webmail-d257.sysops.aol.com> Hi Amanda, I usually ask the driver to let me know when we get to the stop I need. Then, I sit in the front of the bus in the row across from the driver. That way when the driver looks around the bus, he will see me and remember to let me know when the bus is at my stop. Merlyn Hileman -----Original Message----- From: Amanda via nabs-l To: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 9:46 am Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hop stop Has the drivers ever forgotten about you? Amanda > On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:35 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" wrote: > > In cities which don't announce what bus stop it is, I do end up having to ask the driver. In Denver where I am, all buses say the bus stops. Perhaps this application does have that feature and I am unaware of it… > > Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver > >> On Aug 14, 2014, at 8:23, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote: >> >> Aw, that really sucks. So how do you know your stop? >> >> Amanda >> >>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:14 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" wrote: >>> >>> From what I've experienced of it, no. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver >>> >>>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 7:32, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I downloaded hop stop. It looks good so far but does it tell you when approaching or passing a stop in case the driver forgets to announce your stop? >>>> >>>> Amanda >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com in cities that have buses which don't announce which bus stop it is, _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merlyn_hileman%40aol.com From freethaught at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 16:09:37 2014 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:09:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Preparing for The Nfb Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: <53e382ab.c504ec0a.1b32.6780@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <19E2814C-2AE2-4B7C-904E-905CB4919EC3@gmail.com> Sofia and all, A few points on the original post on how to prepare to attend a center. Know what skills you need, list them, and devise your own path to getting them. It has been my experience that training centers, in my case the Colorado one, do not have a set curriculum. This is good for those who know exactly what they need out of a program. Be determined to learn and practice the skills you learn. There are so many distractions that one can get off track from her learning objectives. Demand top notch service. Ask much of yourself, and more of the people who teach at the center. Workig at a center, including an NFB one, does not guarantee the instructor is on top of things, has excellent skills, or knows it all. You are the one responsible for getting your training. The center may have its own ways of teaching. Attend the center if you know the style and philosophy are compatible with your own. Stay positive, learn and teach others. You might find a place for helping out a braille instructor with her class, while taking hints from a classmate in a travel class. Then, you can both go to the apartments and cook a great meal together, and invite a friend over for braille reading practice. In other words, make the best of it, and keep at it till you graduate. Antonio On Aug 8, 2014, at 1:55 PM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > Hi > > I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go > to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I > need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving > independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't > let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. > I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't > just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from > considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone > have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide > dog? > > Thanks! > > Sofia > > On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Roanna, >> >> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is important, but >> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to attend. The >> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with rehab. >> >> Best if luck with your research. >> >> Best, >> >> Candice Chapman >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Nabs Members, >>> >>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend one of >>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss attending one of >>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they are out >>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families before >>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your stories >>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candicel%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 16:32:38 2014 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:32:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com> Message-ID: The training at the NFB centers does not include guide dog mobility training. the nobel is based on cane skills, so it would follow that you’d not use your dog while learning to use a cane. I guess the centers like you to practice your cane skills during business hours. I agree that this is a bit slanted towards cane use. I believe the Colorado Center may be more compatible with keeping your dog bond ad training up best for a couple of reasons. The Denver metropolitan area offers you more choices ad opportunities to work your dog on off hours. I don’t know how much one can do out in a place like Roustin. I have a perception that the Louisiana Center is way in the middle of nowhere, so if I had a dog, or wanted to learn city living mobility skills, I’d avoid it. I wish I knew more about other centers to tell you, Sofia, but no matter what I say, there will be a push to say the center i brought up is custodial, or substandard, which may or may not be true. You are the one ultimately responsible for making your choice, and it seems you are doing a great job at asking for information and researching. You might eat to talk to staff, and students at each potential training center, and do your best to get past the hype. Any center r director you talk to wants to recruit you as a student. I can’t blame them. They work for and run the best center around, no matter what that center is. You might be willing to leave your dog with an instructor, under their desk from 8:30 to 4:00, and work your dog in the community after hours. That might work well if you work at it, even though I agree you’re giving up some bonding and hard training from the schools and your time with the animal. The truth of the matter is the NFB centers do not have dog trainers on hand, they employ mobility instructors. Mobility instructors in my opinion should be well versed in training blind people to navigate with a dog, cane, and a hybrid approach. I also don’t think a blind mobility instructor can adequately observe the intricacies of a blind person and dog guide team to provide adequate services and training. Others certainly feel otherwise, which is an interesting debate for a noter time. NFB centers work with blind instructors, and blind mobility trainers are able to train blind students in the use of the cane. I for one wonder what guide dog training schools would think, say, or do if NFB centers started training blind people to navigate with their dogs. It would be interesting to partner with dog guide schools to offer services to dog users at an NFB center, even if at a very limited basis, but that is too far outside the NFB box to ever happen. All that said, Sofia, you could get a lot out of training at an NFB center. It may be the best option available to you. I wish you luck, and hope you find the center tat best suits you. Best, Antonio On Aug 9, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > Yea, I'd be interested to know how people handled it since it doesn't sound like I can work with my dog a lot. > > Beth, that's scary! I wouldn't want to risk that. > > I'll definitely contact the directors. > > Sofia > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 9, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Beth Taurasi via nabs-l wrote: >> >> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Hello, >> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >> center with a guide dog. >> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >> contact her. >> Miso Kwak >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > To: Matthew Dierckens > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >> relationship with a dog. >> >> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens > wrote: >> >> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >> obviously to relieve the dog. >> >> Matthew Dierckens >> Macintosh Trainer >> Blind Access Training >> www.blindaccesstraining.com >> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >> >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >> dog? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sofia >> >> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Roanna, >> >> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >> important, but >> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >> attend. The >> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >> rehab. >> >> Best if luck with your research. >> >> Best, >> >> Candice Chapman >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >> > wrote: >> >> Dear Nabs Members, >> >> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >> one of >> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >> attending one of >> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >> are out >> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >> before >> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >> stories >> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >> cel%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >> s%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >> l.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 16:35:43 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:35:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Hop stop In-Reply-To: <8D185F0D68D58F2-1EB4-A068@webmail-d257.sysops.aol.com> References: <8A798D44-012E-4C4C-AE0E-DB6FF99EBF9A@gmail.com> <8D185F0D68D58F2-1EB4-A068@webmail-d257.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5EE808A5-7488-4762-91EF-874710AFED18@gmail.com> Also, occasionally and strategically asking nearby passengers where you are doesn't hurt either. I know each person has a different style but, to me, The most efficient way to use the GPS on the bus is for it to periodically tell you where you are and maybe what The nearest intersections are. That way you know roughly where you are and can decide where you want to get off. Also, if you're planning on using a subway system at all, don't expect your GPS to work. In my opinion using a GPS to find something like a bus stopis nice but if you depend on it you're going to get in trouble. :-) Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Merlyn Hileman via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi Amanda, > I usually ask the driver to let me know when we get to the stop I need. Then, I sit in the front of the bus in the row across from the driver. That way when the driver looks around the bus, he will see me and remember to let me know when the bus is at my stop. > > Merlyn Hileman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amanda via nabs-l > To: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 9:46 am > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hop stop > > Has the drivers ever forgotten about you? > > Amanda > >>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:35 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" >> wrote: >> >> In cities which don't announce what bus stop it is, I do end up > having to ask the driver. In Denver where I am, all buses say the bus stops. Perhaps this application does have that feature and I am unaware of it… >> >> Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver >> >>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 8:23, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Aw, that really sucks. So how do you know your stop? >>> >>> Amanda >>> >>>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:14 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" > wrote: >>>> >>>> From what I've experienced of it, no. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver >>>> >>>>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 7:32, Amanda via nabs-l > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I downloaded hop stop. It looks good so far but does it tell you > when approaching or passing a stop in case the driver forgets to announce your stop? >>>>> >>>>> Amanda >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com in cities that have buses which don't announce which bus stop it is, > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merlyn_hileman%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 16:35:43 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:35:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Hop stop In-Reply-To: <8D185F0D68D58F2-1EB4-A068@webmail-d257.sysops.aol.com> References: <8A798D44-012E-4C4C-AE0E-DB6FF99EBF9A@gmail.com> <8D185F0D68D58F2-1EB4-A068@webmail-d257.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5EE808A5-7488-4762-91EF-874710AFED18@gmail.com> Also, occasionally and strategically asking nearby passengers where you are doesn't hurt either. I know each person has a different style but, to me, The most efficient way to use the GPS on the bus is for it to periodically tell you where you are and maybe what The nearest intersections are. That way you know roughly where you are and can decide where you want to get off. Also, if you're planning on using a subway system at all, don't expect your GPS to work. In my opinion using a GPS to find something like a bus stopis nice but if you depend on it you're going to get in trouble. :-) Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Merlyn Hileman via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi Amanda, > I usually ask the driver to let me know when we get to the stop I need. Then, I sit in the front of the bus in the row across from the driver. That way when the driver looks around the bus, he will see me and remember to let me know when the bus is at my stop. > > Merlyn Hileman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amanda via nabs-l > To: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 9:46 am > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hop stop > > Has the drivers ever forgotten about you? > > Amanda > >>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:35 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" >> wrote: >> >> In cities which don't announce what bus stop it is, I do end up > having to ask the driver. In Denver where I am, all buses say the bus stops. Perhaps this application does have that feature and I am unaware of it… >> >> Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver >> >>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 8:23, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Aw, that really sucks. So how do you know your stop? >>> >>> Amanda >>> >>>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:14 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" > wrote: >>>> >>>> From what I've experienced of it, no. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver >>>> >>>>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 7:32, Amanda via nabs-l > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I downloaded hop stop. It looks good so far but does it tell you > when approaching or passing a stop in case the driver forgets to announce your stop? >>>>> >>>>> Amanda >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com in cities that have buses which don't announce which bus stop it is, > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merlyn_hileman%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 17:08:51 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:08:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <53e5f8df.452e320a.6998.fffffcea@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Antonio I don't mind takimg travel class with a cane, it's the rest of the day I'm not really comfortable with even though other guide dog users have done it. I read while doing research that the Colorado center has a slightly different guide dog policy but don't know if this is true. Sofia Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2014, at 12:32 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > > The training at the NFB centers does not include guide dog mobility training. the nobel is based on cane skills, so it would follow that you’d not use your dog while learning to use a cane. > > I guess the centers like you to practice your cane skills during business hours. I agree that this is a bit slanted towards cane use. > > I believe the Colorado Center may be more compatible with keeping your dog bond ad training up best for a couple of reasons. > > The Denver metropolitan area offers you more choices ad opportunities to work your dog on off hours. > > I don’t know how much one can do out in a place like Roustin. I have a perception that the Louisiana Center is way in the middle of nowhere, so if I had a dog, or wanted to learn city living mobility skills, I’d avoid it. > > I wish I knew more about other centers to tell you, Sofia, but no matter what I say, there will be a push to say the center i brought up is custodial, or substandard, which may or may not be true. > > You are the one ultimately responsible for making your choice, and it seems you are doing a great job at asking for information and researching. > You might eat to talk to staff, and students at each potential training center, and do your best to get past the hype. Any center r director you talk to wants to recruit you as a student. I can’t blame them. They work for and run the best center around, no matter what that center is. > > You might be willing to leave your dog with an instructor, under their desk from 8:30 to 4:00, and work your dog in the community after hours. That might work well if you work at it, even though I agree you’re giving up some bonding and hard training from the schools and your time with the animal. > > The truth of the matter is the NFB centers do not have dog trainers on hand, they employ mobility instructors. Mobility instructors in my opinion should be well versed in training blind people to navigate with a dog, cane, and a hybrid approach. > > I also don’t think a blind mobility instructor can adequately observe the intricacies of a blind person and dog guide team to provide adequate services and training. > > Others certainly feel otherwise, which is an interesting debate for a noter time. > > NFB centers work with blind instructors, and blind mobility trainers are able to train blind students in the use of the cane. > > I for one wonder what guide dog training schools would think, say, or do if NFB centers started training blind people to navigate with their dogs. > > It would be interesting to partner with dog guide schools to offer services to dog users at an NFB center, even if at a very limited basis, but that is too far outside the NFB box to ever happen. > > All that said, Sofia, you could get a lot out of training at an NFB center. It may be the best option available to you. > > I wish you luck, and hope you find the center tat best suits you. > > Best, > > Antonio > >> On Aug 9, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Yea, I'd be interested to know how people handled it since it doesn't sound like I can work with my dog a lot. >> >> Beth, that's scary! I wouldn't want to risk that. >> >> I'll definitely contact the directors. >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Beth Taurasi via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> Hello, >>> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >>> center with a guide dog. >>> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >>> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >>> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >>> contact her. >>> Miso Kwak >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> To: Matthew Dierckens >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >>> relationship with a dog. >>> >>> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >> wrote: >>> >>> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >>> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >>> obviously to relieve the dog. >>> >>> Matthew Dierckens >>> Macintosh Trainer >>> Blind Access Training >>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>> >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>> dog? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Roanna, >>> >>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>> important, but >>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >>> attend. The >>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >>> rehab. >>> >>> Best if luck with your research. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Candice Chapman >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Nabs Members, >>> >>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>> one of >>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>> attending one of >>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >>> are out >>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >>> before >>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >>> stories >>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >>> cel%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >>> s%40me.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > From kmaent1 at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 17:12:48 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:12:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <53ecee13.e733ec0a.1cf4.3c88@mx.google.com> Alright=20Antonio,=20I'll=20bight.=20=20Why=20do=20you=20think=20that=20bli= nd=20 mobility=20instructors=20aren't=20capable=20of=20training=20people=20with=20= dog=20 guides?=20=20There=20don't=20seem=20to=20be=20any=20real=20reasons=20for=20= this=20apart=20 from=20the=20same=20prejudices=20that=20have=20prevented=20blind=20people=20= from=20 teaching=20mobility=20at=20all=20for=20decades.=20=20If=20a=20blind=20perso= n=20is=20 competent=20enough=20to=20keep=20their=20student=20safe=20and=20help=20them= =20employ=20 structured=20discovery,=20then=20why=20aren't=20they=20competent=20enough=20= to=20do=20 this=20if=20the=20student=20happens=20to=20use=20a=20dog? Karl =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Antonio=20Guimaraes=20via=20nabs-l=20,National=20Association=20of= =20 Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20=20wrote: =20Yea,=20I'd=20be=20interested=20to=20know=20how=20people=20handled=20it=20= since=20it=20 doesn't=20sound=20like=20I=20can=20work=20with=20my=20dog=20a=20lot. =20Beth,=20that's=20scary!=20I=20wouldn't=20want=20to=20risk=20that. =20I'll=20definitely=20contact=20the=20directors. =20Sofia =20Sent=20from=20my=20iPhone =20On=20Aug=209,=202014,=20at=206:32=20AM,=20Beth=20Taurasi=20via=20nabs-l= =20 =20wrote: =20There's=20a=20problem=20with=20guiide=20dogs=20and=20training.=20=20Ther= e's=20the=20 possibility=20of=20separation=20anxiety=20for=20the=20dog,=20which=20one=20= of=20my=20FB=20 friends=20wrote=20in=20a=20heartrending=20manner.=20=20She's=20not=20gettin= g=20her=20 dog=20back=20due=20to=20traiing. =20Beth =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- =20From:=20Miso=20Kwak=20via=20nabs-l=20=20= wrote: =20Hi=20Roanna, =20You're=20right.=20Talking=20with=20family=20and=20your=20rehab=20counsel= or=20is =20important,=20but =20another=20important=20place=20to=20start=20is=20the=20NFB=20center=20you= =20want=20to =20attend.=20The =20center=20can=20be=20helpful=20in=20assisting=20with=20issues=20you=20may= =20have=20with =20rehab. =20Best=20if=20luck=20with=20your=20research. =20Best, =20Candice=20Chapman =20Sent=20from=20my=20iPhone =20On=20Aug=207,=202014,=20at=208:43=20AM,=20Roanna=20Bacchus=20via=20nabs-= l =20 References: <53ecee13.e733ec0a.1cf4.3c88@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, I had this long message typed out on why i thought that a blind person could assist a guide dog user in travel...and then, I erased it. At first, saying that a blind person couldn't help a blind user who used a guide dog in travel struck a nerve with me. There are so many ways in which that sort of statement could have been taken. 1. A blind person can't literally teach a person if he or she has a guide dog. 2. A blind person can't train blind person in the proper use of his guide dog, which might indicate 3. A blind person cannot train a dog no less a guide dog. Not knowing how this was meant is irrelevant because, wether the person is going to say "oh yeah, that's how I meant it." here's my thoughts on why it wouldn't work for a blind person to work with a guide dog user in travel. To work with a guide dog user means to work with the team altogether. This means one must know about the person's travel skills on the whole, and not just with a dog. (I'm amazed the amount of people who get guide dogs and still run into people or openly admit being "better with the dog than the cane.") That being said, the instructor must also know about dog psychology. How does the dog work? What's his drive level? What's his temperament? How do the two go together? In what ways does the drive of the dog hinder his training? These are things you have to know as a dog trainer because it helps you understand the best ways to discipline and praise a dog. A dog with a high drive might respond negatively to correction if that correction might increase the drive. In fact, rarely do you want to increase a dog's drive, but nor do you want to bring the dog down to no drive. A dog with a soft temperament doesn't need a strong correction or it will decrease the drive to the point where the dog will not work. However, giving a dog too soft a correction if it has a harder temperament will only make the dog look at you like, "That all you got?" A dog with a high drive that you're trying to correct doesnt need an excited command because that will increase the drive, but rather, a person must be calm but firm. 't, we've hopefully established that you need to understand the person, and you need to understand the dog. Now you must understand them as a team. How does the handler's temperament affect how the dog works? is the person too hard with the dog in corrections? Too soft? These are things that a blind person can work with the person on, and it might take a couple of weeks for the instructor to figure out who the team works, both as individuals and as a whole. Blindness is not an issue here, even if it would take some extra work that I'm not sure many people would like to put in as a dog trainer. Here's where the real glitch is: Every person who trains their dog is different, and so every method of training dogs is different. Even if the school believes one way, the handler may believe another. I'm in the process of training my own dog, and I won't go into the amount of times someone's told me, "why do you have a muzzle over his face? he an't breathe." These people mean well, and obviously do not understand how gentle leaers work. On top of that, every school has it's own training philosophy, and an instructor at a center would have to know how each school operates it's training regiment. But what if the trainer doesn't agree with that type of training done by a school that the blind user attended? I have my training philosophy, and I adapt it for each dog I work with. My philosophy is that all dogs are different, and what works for one might not work for another. I use a prong collar on my akita that I'm correctly training. I use it after we've mastered the commands, and he just needs a "Hey! I'm talking to you!" nudge, which is hardly ever, I might add. Because he has a double coat, the prong collar gets his attention. It should also be noted that I know how to use one, and no one should use them without knowing how. I would not, however, use a prong collar on a dog because i think that sort of correction is just not needed and there are softer ways in which to correct. That being said, many guide dog schools, to me, seem to stick with a certain set of training tools, and many believe the prong collar to be cruel. When used with a soft tempered dog, or a smaller dog, or used incorrectly by the handler, I agree. An instructor would have to agree with every philosophy and truing technique used by every guide dog school. I know you're pro bay thinking, "no they don't. They can train the dog using the schools' techniques even if they don't agree." and my answer is, "yeah, they can, but I doubt they'd do it for long". for someone who truly loves working with dogs, money won't change how they feel a dog should be treated. On Aug 14, 2014, at 11:12 AM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: > Alright Antonio, I'll bight. Why do you think that blind mobility instructors aren't capable of training people with dog guides? There don't seem to be any real reasons for this apart from the same prejudices that have prevented blind people from teaching mobility at all for decades. If a blind person is competent enough to keep their student safe and help them employ structured discovery, then why aren't they competent enough to do this if the student happens to use a dog? > > Karl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l To: Sofia Gallo ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:32:38 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > The training at the NFB centers does not include guide dog mobility training. the nobel is based on cane skills, so it would follow that you’d not use your dog while learning to use a cane. > > I guess the centers like you to practice your cane skills during business hours. I agree that this is a bit slanted towards cane use. > > I believe the Colorado Center may be more compatible with keeping your dog bond ad training up best for a couple of reasons. > > The Denver metropolitan area offers you more choices ad opportunities to work your dog on off hours. > > I don’t know how much one can do out in a place like Roustin. I have a perception that the Louisiana Center is way in the middle of nowhere, so if I had a dog, or wanted to learn city living mobility skills, I’d avoid it. > > I wish I knew more about other centers to tell you, Sofia, but no matter what I say, there will be a push to say the center i brought up is custodial, or substandard, which may or may not be true. > > You are the one ultimately responsible for making your choice, and it seems you are doing a great job at asking for information and researching. > You might eat to talk to staff, and students at each potential training center, and do your best to get past the hype. Any center r director you talk to wants to recruit you as a student. I can’t blame them. They work for and run the best center around, no matter what that center is. > > You might be willing to leave your dog with an instructor, under their desk from 8:30 to 4:00, and work your dog in the community after hours. That might work well if you work at it, even though I agree you’re giving up some bonding and hard training from the schools and your time with the animal. > > The truth of the matter is the NFB centers do not have dog trainers on hand, they employ mobility instructors. Mobility instructors in my opinion should be well versed in training blind people to navigate with a dog, cane, and a hybrid approach. > > I also don’t think a blind mobility instructor can adequately observe the intricacies of a blind person and dog guide team to provide adequate services and training. > > Others certainly feel otherwise, which is an interesting debate for a noter time. > > NFB centers work with blind instructors, and blind mobility trainers are able to train blind students in the use of the cane. > > I for one wonder what guide dog training schools would think, say, or do if NFB centers started training blind people to navigate with their dogs. > > It would be interesting to partner with dog guide schools to offer services to dog users at an NFB center, even if at a very limited basis, but that is too far outside the NFB box to ever happen. > > All that said, Sofia, you could get a lot out of training at an NFB center. It may be the best option available to you. > > I wish you luck, and hope you find the center tat best suits you. > > Best, > > Antonio > > On Aug 9, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > > Yea, I'd be interested to know how people handled it since it doesn't sound like I can work with my dog a lot. > > Beth, that's scary! I wouldn't want to risk that. > > I'll definitely contact the directors. > > Sofia > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 9, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Beth Taurasi via nabs-l wrote: > > There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Hello, > I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB > center with a guide dog. > I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the > Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with > her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to > contact her. > Miso Kwak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l To: Matthew Dierckens Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working > relationship with a dog. > > Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > > You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. > You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and > obviously to relieve the dog. > > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course > available now. Spots are limited, sign up here > http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ > > On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi > > I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go > to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I > need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving > independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't > let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. > I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't > just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from > considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone > have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide > dog? > > Thanks! > > Sofia > > On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Roanna, > > You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is > important, but > another important place to start is the NFB center you want to > attend. The > center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with > rehab. > > Best if luck with your research. > > Best, > > Candice Chapman > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l > wrote: > > Dear Nabs Members, > > I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend > one of > the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss > attending one of > these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they > are out > of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families > before > planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your > stories > about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi > cel%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken > s%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao > l.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% > 40gmail..com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > 0gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From kmaent1 at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 18:38:13 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 14:38:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <53ed0217.8db2320a.3309.ffffe2f3@mx.google.com> Hi Valerie, it sounds to me like everything you say about why it would be hard for a blind person to teach O and M to someone with a dog would apply equally well to a sighted person trying to teach O and M to a person with a dog. ----- Original Message ----- From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l References: <89333916-D15B-41F8-82F6-875C7F7B40DC@gmail.com><8719F57A-45F9-49BD-9F70-0943F2FC62F1@gmail.com><366C14DA-5BC6-425F-BD7A-9AD675790288@gmail.com> <9E65518A-97C2-4253-93B4-85902B54DC65@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7210F79876124EC3B40519788BF3AF12@OwnerPC> yes, you might have to use the old fashioned way and ask the driver. Three other techniques I was taught are these although its less reliable due to traffic and construction. First, you can get familiar with how the bus feels as it approaches your stop. Is it curvy? Bumpy? any speed bumps? Second, you can time how long it takes till your stop. Third, you can listen for differences once you are at your stop. If it’s a transfer point to a subway station, you might hear a difference outside. Now the ap is good, I've heard; do not use a smart phone. but those aps should not be the only thing you use. HTH, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer via nabs-l Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 10:35 AM To: cape.amanda at gmail.com Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hop stop In cities which don't announce what bus stop it is, I do end up having to ask the driver. In Denver where I am, all buses say the bus stops. Perhaps this application does have that feature and I am unaware of it… Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver > On Aug 14, 2014, at 8:23, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote: > > Aw, that really sucks. So how do you know your stop? > > Amanda > >> On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:14 AM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" >> wrote: >> >> From what I've experienced of it, no. >> >> Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver >> >>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 7:32, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> I downloaded hop stop. It looks good so far but does it tell you when >>> approaching or passing a stop in case the driver forgets to announce >>> your stop? >>> >>> Amanda >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >>> in cities that have buses which don't announce which bus stop it is, _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From valandkayla at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 21:48:45 2014 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:48:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <53ed0217.8db2320a.3309.ffffe2f3@mx.google.com> References: <53ed0217.8db2320a.3309.ffffe2f3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <10AE3944-EFE7-4C4F-B455-B4D47B43F493@gmail.com> This is true And that might be a reason it's not done. If you were talking about a blind trainer teaching a blind student, and the trainer is affiliated with one school, that would be different, but at centers, you've got many blind dog users that might come through, and no school is going to have the same training philosophy. On Aug 14, 2014, at 12:38 PM, Karl Martin Adam wrote: > Hi Valerie, it sounds to me like everything you say about why it would be hard for a blind person to teach O and M to someone with a dog would apply equally well to a sighted person trying to teach O and M to a person with a dog. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Hi, > I had this long message typed out on why i thought that a blind person could assist a guide dog user in travel...and then, I erased it. > At first, saying that a blind person couldn't help a blind user who used a guide dog in travel struck a nerve with me From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 21:49:26 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 14:49:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <53ed0217.8db2320a.3309.ffffe2f3@mx.google.com> References: <53ed0217.8db2320a.3309.ffffe2f3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes, there are two separate claims here. One is that NOMC's trained in structured discovery *cane travel*--whether blind or sighted-- might not know how to train guide dog teams. That claim is probably valid. The second claim is that blind people cannot train guide dogteams even if they have education in dog psychology, etc. I think this second claim is problematic, and anybody making this generalization about blind people needs evidence to back it up, in my opinion. Arielle On 8/14/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Valerie, it sounds to me like everything you say about why it > would be hard for a blind person to teach O and M to someone with > a dog would apply equally well to a sighted person trying to > teach O and M to a person with a dog. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:04:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Hi, > I had this long message typed out on why i thought that a blind > person could assist a guide dog user in travel...and then, I > erased it. > At first, saying that a blind person couldn't help a blind user > who used a guide dog in travel struck a nerve with me > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From valandkayla at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 22:06:31 2014 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:06:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <53ed0217.8db2320a.3309.ffffe2f3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <527B07F2-9D13-4DAF-BFAD-26A5FA0D43DC@gmail.com> I couldn't agree more. I am currently in the process of training my own guide dog, and, not that I'd ever do this, but if I were helping to train or training a guide dog for someone else or was affiliated with a school where I believed in it's training philosophies, I don't see why i wouldn't be able to train the guide dog team, after having first assessed the team as individuals and as a team as a whole. But as stated in my last email, there are too many schools with too many philosophies on how training should be done and the breed of dog best suited for any trainer to come to a center and say, "I'll train the lot". Not all guide dog schools agree on training methods, which is why you have so many schools in the first place. The only thing that I'd have real hesitation on in regards to dog training is aggressive dogs, and I hate to say it, but I've seen some aggressive guide dogs. I had a guide dog do some grand standing to my dog in training, who was at the time four months old. On Aug 14, 2014, at 3:49 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > Yes, there are two separate claims here. One is that NOMC's trained in > structured discovery *cane travel*--whether blind or sighted-- might > not know how to train guide dog teams. That claim is probably valid. > The second claim is that blind people cannot train guide dogteams even > if they have education in dog psychology, etc. I think this second > claim is problematic, and anybody making this generalization about > blind people needs evidence to back it up, in my opinion. > Arielle > > On 8/14/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Valerie, it sounds to me like everything you say about why it >> would be hard for a blind person to teach O and M to someone with >> a dog would apply equally well to a sighted person trying to >> teach O and M to a person with a dog. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Valerie Gibson via nabs-l > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:04:56 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Hi, >> I had this long message typed out on why i thought that a blind >> person could assist a guide dog user in travel...and then, I >> erased it. >> At first, saying that a blind person couldn't help a blind user >> who used a guide dog in travel struck a nerve with me >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 22:32:02 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice if folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A single off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge thread of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding someone who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a post bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so they can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you aren't sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the moderators privately. These are just my suggestions. Arielle On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l wrote: > Mary and all, > > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been brought up. > > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the opportunity to be > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines which suspended > or banned people from list for violations. > > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, and I never > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and are not > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could have been > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have the chance > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the moderators. > > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent enough that they > don’t bother me. I don’t complain, hit delete ad move on. > > One much example are the periodic announcements from David about internet > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide the > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with no stress. I’m > sure David’s programs are interesting to some, and I accept a member’s > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. > > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about others, or > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and sensitive topics. > > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, stay on topic, > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. > > Antonio > > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l > wrote: > >> Good evening all, >> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or lack >> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on the >> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to be a >> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, parents >> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which means that >> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, anyone, >> conducts a Google search. >> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, which >> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you contact them >> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and forth, >> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards others. >> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among list >> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion about >> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but I'm >> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be polite and >> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have strong >> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my email >> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> >> Thank you, >> Sincerely, >> Your list moderator, >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them >> feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From freethaught at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 12:48:27 2014 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 08:48:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <53ecee13.e733ec0a.1cf4.3c88@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9C9371D5-7059-4E72-AA91-B51DC2D65AED@gmail.com> Valerie, Thank you for your message, especially since you had to type it twice, and still got your thoughts out there. I am hoping to be swayed, or at least have a better understanding how blind people can train a blind and dog team for mobility. I am slightly confused when you said that here is why a blind person can’t teach guide dog work. Then you made great points on how a blind person would be able to do it. I don’t think it is difficult to gage the dog’s temperament, and to understand also the person’s energy, then match all that to see how the tea works together. This is all very interesting since it gives me information I didn’t realize went into matching a person with a dog. In my case, I am a mello person, and was matched with a very energetic gold retriever. I needed a dog with a very light pull, and that is what I god. What you do training dogs may be frowned upon by many, including most schools, and many dog users, and blind observers. But you prove to me to be good at what you do, and you love it, too. I would not sign on to an individual trainer for my guide dog, blind or sighted. Maybe excluding those trainers who came from the background of working at a dog guide school. I would in the latter case question why that trainer left the school. I think the schools are there for a reason, and they know what they are doing. They offer follow up and support for their grads, so I would much prefer to be actively involved with a school. Now, I may not mind having you train my dog. I think you know what you’re doing, you know dogs and people, and you are competent. I don’t know your background, but I can say with certainty you love dogs, and have been around them for a long time. You have the skills, the love, and the drive to teach dogs to guide, or to do other things. I can tell from your message that you have a large repertoire of techniques you use. You made no mention of how much you can see in the original message, and it doesn’t really matter if you’re applying for a job, and you sound like a great candidate, and you’re going to train my dog. If you were to do that, I might freak out when I found out you are blind, which is how we usually experience things. Prejudice is all around, including from those of us who are blind. If you did sign up to train my dog, and I freaked out by your being blind, you would no doubt tell me how you do what you do. I might listen, and be reassured by your awesome ability and skill. If I refused to work with you based on my conceived notion you could not do the job because blindness is a limitation, I would not be a person you’d want to work with anyway. If I am prejudicial, or if I decide your services will not fit my needs or personality, we probably would clash as a team of trainer, client, dog working towards the same goal. It is my philosophy that if an employer does not think I can do the job, and if she is not willing to look at the issue with an open mind, then I can’t do the job, and she’s not going to let me prove otherwise. This is worth pointing out since it shows how I think about working with those employers who don’t believe the blind person, I can do the job. I have to prove myself equal or better than the sighted worker to be taken seriously, or I’ll be screened out of most jobs. We need to understand that if we’re going to work as a blind anything: teacher, social worker, or guide dog trainer. You did interest me in being more willing to have a blind person, you, train m future, make believe dog. I will probably not get another guide any time soon, but I have more confidence that you could do it. But I would not hire an dog trainer because they went to LA Tech, or because they are a member of the NFB, or because they are certified by some kennel association or another. Credentials are important, and required, but I’d hire you to train my dog because I believed you can do the job better, or more conveniently than another. I would not hire a blind dog trainer because they are blind, and that must automatically qualify them better than a sighted person to teach a blind person. I would not join in, or support a fight to open up a guide dog training program for blind people run by or closely affiliated with the NFB. We do too much as a organization as it is, and I would ask when does it stop. I know, I know you didn’t argue in your message for a guide dog training school for the blind, but I’ve heard the idea being thrown around before. If a blind person wants to train dogs, be a lawyer social worker, well, there are law schools, grad school programs in social work, and schools that train guide dogs, and if a blind person is a competent student of law, or psychology, or dog training, I don’t see much reason to segregate ourselves into special programs that teach the blind to teach the blind. There is more than guide dog training philosophy here, but it all does come together when trying to understand why people might turn blind people down for dog training work. I don’t hire my doctor because she went to the same school I did, or because she may happen to be Brazilian like me. I go to her because I feel she is a great doctor. If I spoke no English, I might find that she was the best match because we could communicate, and she’d be able to treat me. Likewise, I do not think I would discriminate against the sighted if I were in a position of hiring others. Being blind does not make one any better or worse than a sighted based based on blindness alone. I look forward to reading on, and again, thank you Valerie for your informative message. Antonio On Aug 14, 2014, at 2:04 PM, Valerie Gibson via nabs-l wrote: > Hi, > I had this long message typed out on why i thought that a blind person could assist a guide dog user in travel...and then, I erased it. > At first, saying that a blind person couldn't help a blind user who used a guide dog in travel struck a nerve with me. > There are so many ways in which that sort of statement could have been taken. > 1. A blind person can't literally teach a person if he or she has a guide dog. > 2. A blind person can't train blind person in the proper use of his guide dog, which might indicate > 3. A blind person cannot train a dog no less a guide dog. > Not knowing how this was meant is irrelevant because, wether the person is going to say "oh yeah, that's how I meant it." here's my thoughts on why it wouldn't work for a blind person to work with a guide dog user in travel. > To work with a guide dog user means to work with the team altogether. This means one must know about the person's travel skills on the whole, and not just with a dog. (I'm amazed the amount of people who get guide dogs and still run into people or openly admit being "better with the dog than the cane.") > That being said, the instructor must also know about dog psychology. How does the dog work? What's his drive level? What's his temperament? How do the two go together? In what ways does the drive of the dog hinder his training? > These are things you have to know as a dog trainer because it helps you understand the best ways to discipline and praise a dog. A dog with a high drive might respond negatively to correction if that correction might increase the drive. In fact, rarely do you want to increase a dog's drive, but nor do you want to bring the dog down to no drive. A dog with a soft temperament doesn't need a strong correction or it will decrease the drive to the point where the dog will not work. However, giving a dog too soft a correction if it has a harder temperament will only make the dog look at you like, "That all you got?" > A dog with a high drive that you're trying to correct doesnt need an excited command because that will increase the drive, but rather, a person must be calm but firm. > 't, we've hopefully established that you need to understand the person, and you need to understand the dog. > Now you must understand them as a team. How does the handler's temperament affect how the dog works? is the person too hard with the dog in corrections? Too soft? > These are things that a blind person can work with the person on, and it might take a couple of weeks for the instructor to figure out who the team works, both as individuals and as a whole. > Blindness is not an issue here, even if it would take some extra work that I'm not sure many people would like to put in as a dog trainer. > Here's where the real glitch is: > Every person who trains their dog is different, and so every method of training dogs is different. Even if the school believes one way, the handler may believe another. > I'm in the process of training my own dog, and I won't go into the amount of times someone's told me, "why do you have a muzzle over his face? he an't breathe." These people mean well, and obviously do not understand how gentle leaers work. > On top of that, every school has it's own training philosophy, and an instructor at a center would have to know how each school operates it's training regiment. But what if the trainer doesn't agree with that type of training done by a school that the blind user attended? > I have my training philosophy, and I adapt it for each dog I work with. My philosophy is that all dogs are different, and what works for one might not work for another. > I use a prong collar on my akita that I'm correctly training. I use it after we've mastered the commands, and he just needs a "Hey! I'm talking to you!" nudge, which is hardly ever, I might add. Because he has a double coat, the prong collar gets his attention. It should also be noted that I know how to use one, and no one should use them without knowing how. > I would not, however, use a prong collar on a dog because i think that sort of correction is just not needed and there are softer ways in which to correct. > That being said, many guide dog schools, to me, seem to stick with a certain set of training tools, and many believe the prong collar to be cruel. When used with a soft tempered dog, or a smaller dog, or used incorrectly by the handler, I agree. > An instructor would have to agree with every philosophy and truing technique used by every guide dog school. > I know you're pro bay thinking, "no they don't. They can train the dog using the schools' techniques even if they don't agree." and my answer is, "yeah, they can, but I doubt they'd do it for long". for someone who truly loves working with dogs, money won't change how they feel a dog should be treated. > > > On Aug 14, 2014, at 11:12 AM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: > >> Alright Antonio, I'll bight. Why do you think that blind mobility instructors aren't capable of training people with dog guides? There don't seem to be any real reasons for this apart from the same prejudices that have prevented blind people from teaching mobility at all for decades. If a blind person is competent enough to keep their student safe and help them employ structured discovery, then why aren't they competent enough to do this if the student happens to use a dog? >> >> Karl >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l > To: Sofia Gallo ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:32:38 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> The training at the NFB centers does not include guide dog mobility training. the nobel is based on cane skills, so it would follow that you’d not use your dog while learning to use a cane. >> >> I guess the centers like you to practice your cane skills during business hours. I agree that this is a bit slanted towards cane use. >> >> I believe the Colorado Center may be more compatible with keeping your dog bond ad training up best for a couple of reasons. >> >> The Denver metropolitan area offers you more choices ad opportunities to work your dog on off hours. >> >> I don’t know how much one can do out in a place like Roustin. I have a perception that the Louisiana Center is way in the middle of nowhere, so if I had a dog, or wanted to learn city living mobility skills, I’d avoid it. >> >> I wish I knew more about other centers to tell you, Sofia, but no matter what I say, there will be a push to say the center i brought up is custodial, or substandard, which may or may not be true. >> >> You are the one ultimately responsible for making your choice, and it seems you are doing a great job at asking for information and researching. >> You might eat to talk to staff, and students at each potential training center, and do your best to get past the hype. Any center r director you talk to wants to recruit you as a student. I can’t blame them. They work for and run the best center around, no matter what that center is. >> >> You might be willing to leave your dog with an instructor, under their desk from 8:30 to 4:00, and work your dog in the community after hours. That might work well if you work at it, even though I agree you’re giving up some bonding and hard training from the schools and your time with the animal. >> >> The truth of the matter is the NFB centers do not have dog trainers on hand, they employ mobility instructors. Mobility instructors in my opinion should be well versed in training blind people to navigate with a dog, cane, and a hybrid approach. >> >> I also don’t think a blind mobility instructor can adequately observe the intricacies of a blind person and dog guide team to provide adequate services and training. >> >> Others certainly feel otherwise, which is an interesting debate for a noter time. >> >> NFB centers work with blind instructors, and blind mobility trainers are able to train blind students in the use of the cane. >> >> I for one wonder what guide dog training schools would think, say, or do if NFB centers started training blind people to navigate with their dogs. >> >> It would be interesting to partner with dog guide schools to offer services to dog users at an NFB center, even if at a very limited basis, but that is too far outside the NFB box to ever happen. >> >> All that said, Sofia, you could get a lot out of training at an NFB center. It may be the best option available to you. >> >> I wish you luck, and hope you find the center tat best suits you. >> >> Best, >> >> Antonio >> >> On Aug 9, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Yea, I'd be interested to know how people handled it since it doesn't sound like I can work with my dog a lot. >> >> Beth, that's scary! I wouldn't want to risk that. >> >> I'll definitely contact the directors. >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 9, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Beth Taurasi via nabs-l wrote: >> >> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Hello, >> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >> center with a guide dog. >> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >> contact her. >> Miso Kwak >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > To: Matthew Dierckens > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >> relationship with a dog. >> >> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens > wrote: >> >> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >> obviously to relieve the dog. >> >> Matthew Dierckens >> Macintosh Trainer >> Blind Access Training >> www.blindaccesstraining.com >> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >> >> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l > wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >> dog? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sofia >> >> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Roanna, >> >> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >> important, but >> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >> attend. The >> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >> rehab. >> >> Best if luck with your research. >> >> Best, >> >> Candice Chapman >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >> > wrote: >> >> Dear Nabs Members, >> >> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >> one of >> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >> attending one of >> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >> are out >> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >> before >> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >> stories >> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >> cel%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >> s%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >> l.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >> 40gmail..com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From kmaent1 at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 13:27:06 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 09:27:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <53ee0aaf.070c320a.2647.44e2@mx.google.com> Hi=20Antonio, I=20definitely=20agree=20that=20for=20most=20jobs=20it=20doesn't=20matter=20= if=20you're=20 blind=20or=20not=20and=20we=20shouldn't=20segregate=20ourselves.=20=20Being= =20blind=20 does=20make=20one=20more=20qualified=20for=20certain=20jobs=20though.=20=20= If=20I=20want=20 someone=20to=20teach=20me=20blindness=20skills=20like=20O=20and=20M=20or=20= daily=20living=20 skills=20or=20how=20to=20use=20a=20dog,=20I'd=20much=20rather=20have=20a=20= blind=20person=20 doing=20it=20because=20they=20have=20experience=20using=20the=20things=20th= ey're=20 teaching=20instead=20of=20just=20learning=20them=20from=20a=20book.=20=20Fo= r=20the=20same=20 reason,=20if=20I=20want=20to=20be=20a=20lawyer=20or=20a=20social=20worker=20= I'd=20rather=20 study=20under=20people=20who=20have=20practiced=20as=20lawyers=20or=20socia= l=20 workers.=20=20It's=20not=20about=20discrimination;=20it's=20about=20the=20 difference=20between=20book=20knowledge=20and=20practical=20knowledge. Best, Karl =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Antonio=20Guimaraes=20via=20nabs-l=20,National=20Association=20 of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20 Hello All, I thought I would pass along the following announcement for those of you who may be looking for a job opportunity. Warm regards, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lydia Anne Schuck via nfbmi-talk Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 9:30 AM To: 'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List'; 'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List' Subject: [nfbmi-talk] job posted at seedlings braille books Job Posting: Community Outreach Manager (Livonia) Seedlings Braille Books for Children, a Livonia nonprofit organization serving blind children worldwide for 30 years, seeks a qualified part-time (avg. 28 hrs/wk) person to lead our public relations and fundraising efforts. Responsibilities: Manage fundraising events, appeals Research and write grant proposals Write and disseminate press releases, news stories, and newsletters Speak to civic groups, clubs, schools and conduct tours Attend conferences and conventions for Seedlings Manage social media presence Required Qualifications: Bachelor’s degree or 4 years equivalent education in Marketing or Public Relations Minimum 3 years of nonprofit experience Demonstrated fundraising, PR, special events, and grant writing experience Experience in public speaking and strong writing & verbal communication skills Willingness to learn braille basics Key Attributes: Ability to work independently and also in a team environment (Department of 2; Full team of 10, plus volunteers) Excellent computer skills, particularly MS Office, Constant Contact a plus Excellent organizational & interpersonal skills Excellent attendance and punctuality are essential for this position (majority of the hours will be in office plus occasional evening meetings with civic groups, conferences) Seedlings’ Mission: Seedlings Braille Books for Children is a non-profit, 501(c)3 tax-exempt organization dedicated to increasing the opportunity for literacy by providing high-quality, low-cost children’s literature in Braille. For more information on Seedlings, see: www.seedlings.org If interested, please send cover letter and resume to: info at seedlings.org Lydia Schuck, MSEd Research Associate, National Secondary Transition Technical Assistance Center Western Michigan University 1908 W. Michigan Avenue, Mailstop 5259 Kalamazoo, MI 49008 phone 269.387.5990 _______________________________________________ nfbmi-talk mailing list nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbmi-talk: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri Aug 15 18:04:43 2014 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:04:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello, Braille Readers! Information Sought Message-ID: > >Hello All: >I am Tamara Rorie and am the Braille Development Specialist at >NLS. I am currently gathering information from braille readers who >read NLS books about their experiences with this material. I'd like >to invite you contact me off list if you are interested in >discussing the NLS braille collection or the various practices of >your network libraries. I will be working on this for the next week >or so. So, please write me at tror at loc.gov or give me a call at >202-707-3001. I look forward to speaking to you. > > > > > >Tamara Rorie >Braille Development Specialist >tror at loc.gov >202-707-3001-phone >202-707-0712-fax >http://www.loc.gov/nls/ > > > >National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped >1291 Taylor Street, NW >Washington, DC 20542 > >The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of NLS/BPH >or The Library of Congress > >-----Original Message----- >From: napub [mailto:napub-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elise >Berkley via napub >Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 8:10 AM >To: 'Debra Baxley'; 'National Association to Promote the Use of >Braille Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [napub] Hello, Braille Readers! > >Hello, Debra. My name is Elise and I just want to say my dream is >to read braille as well as you do. I have been reading for about 5 >years. I try to practice as much as I can. Have a good day. > >-----Original Message----- >From: napub [mailto:napub-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debra >Baxley via napub >Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 3:28 PM >To: napub at nfbnet.org >Subject: [napub] Hello, Braille Readers! > >I am Debra, and I have been reading Braille all of my 53 years of life. >I am the only avid Braille reader in Southwest Louisiana that I know of. >Our Baton Rouge library no longer contains Braille books for us to borrow. >Braille readers in this part of the state are referred to Utah for >Braille books. > >Debra > >_______________________________________________ >napub mailing list >napub at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/napub_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for napub: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/napub_nfbnet.org/bravaegf%40hotmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >napub mailing list >napub at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/napub_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for napub: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/napub_nfbnet.org/tror%40loc.gov > >_______________________________________________ >napub mailing list >napub at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/napub_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for napub: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/napub_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From ligne14 at verizon.net Fri Aug 15 19:16:45 2014 From: ligne14 at verizon.net (Sami Osborne) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:16:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners Message-ID: <0NAD0022748XP9B0@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> Hi all, I agree with everything that's been said so far. I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they have caused trouble on here. Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of discussions are fine as long as people are not personally insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. These are just my thoughts. Thanks, Sami. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Mary and all, This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been brought up. People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the opportunity to be inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines which suspended or banned people from list for violations. I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, and I never did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and are not relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could have been banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have the chance to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the moderators. Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent enough that they don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. One much example are the periodic announcements from David about internet radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide the announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with no stress. I'm sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a member's self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about others, or messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and sensitive topics. We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, stay on topic, and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. Antonio On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l References: <53ecee13.e733ec0a.1cf4.3c88@mx.google.com> <9C9371D5-7059-4E72-AA91-B51DC2D65AED@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1F409682-20CD-4714-B471-3592E581C05B@gmail.com> Hi, I did not mean to contradict myself in my previous long post. A blind person can teach a guide dog team, but only if that blind trainer aggress with the training philosophy that went into that dog's training. This could also be said for a sighted person. I believe that the reason this might not work is because you've got a lot of people from various guide dog school coming into centers, and those guide dog schools have various training methods of training dogs. On Aug 15, 2014, at 6:48 AM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Valerie, > > Thank you for your message, especially since you had to type it twice, and still got your thoughts out there. > > I am hoping to be swayed, or at least have a better understanding how blind people can train a blind and dog team for mobility. > > I am slightly confused when you said that here is why a blind person can’t teach guide dog work. Then you made great points on how a blind person would be able to do it. > > I don’t think it is difficult to gage the dog’s temperament, and to understand also the person’s energy, then match all that to see how the tea works together. > > This is all very interesting since it gives me information I didn’t realize went into matching a person with a dog. > > In my case, I am a mello person, and was matched with a very energetic gold retriever. I needed a dog with a very light pull, and that is what I god. > > What you do training dogs may be frowned upon by many, including most schools, and many dog users, and blind observers. But you prove to me to be good at what you do, and you love it, too. > > I would not sign on to an individual trainer for my guide dog, blind or sighted. Maybe excluding those trainers who came from the background of working at a dog guide school. I would in the latter case question why that trainer left the school. > > I think the schools are there for a reason, and they know what they are doing. They offer follow up and support for their grads, so I would much prefer to be actively involved with a school. > > Now, I may not mind having you train my dog. I think you know what you’re doing, you know dogs and people, and you are competent. I don’t know your background, but I can say with certainty you love dogs, and have been around them for a long time. > > You have the skills, the love, and the drive to teach dogs to guide, or to do other things. I can tell from your message that you have a large repertoire of techniques you use. > > You made no mention of how much you can see in the original message, and it doesn’t really matter if you’re applying for a job, and you sound like a great candidate, and you’re going to train my dog. > > If you were to do that, I might freak out when I found out you are blind, which is how we usually experience things. Prejudice is all around, including from those of us who are blind. > > If you did sign up to train my dog, and I freaked out by your being blind, you would no doubt tell me how you do what you do. I might listen, and be reassured by your awesome ability and skill. > > If I refused to work with you based on my conceived notion you could not do the job because blindness is a limitation, I would not be a person you’d want to work with anyway. > > If I am prejudicial, or if I decide your services will not fit my needs or personality, we probably would clash as a team of trainer, client, dog working towards the same goal. > > It is my philosophy that if an employer does not think I can do the job, and if she is not willing to look at the issue with an open mind, then I can’t do the job, and she’s not going to let me prove otherwise. This is worth pointing out since it shows how I think about working with those employers who don’t believe the blind person, I can do the job. > > I have to prove myself equal or better than the sighted worker to be taken seriously, or I’ll be screened out of most jobs. > > We need to understand that if we’re going to work as a blind anything: teacher, social worker, or guide dog trainer. > > You did interest me in being more willing to have a blind person, you, train m future, make believe dog. I will probably not get another guide any time soon, but I have more confidence that you could do it. > > But I would not hire an dog trainer because they went to LA Tech, or because they are a member of the NFB, or because they are certified by some kennel association or another. > > Credentials are important, and required, but I’d hire you to train my dog because I believed you can do the job better, or more conveniently than another. > > I would not hire a blind dog trainer because they are blind, and that must automatically qualify them better than a sighted person to teach a blind person. I would not join in, or support a fight to open up a guide dog training program for blind people run by or closely affiliated with the NFB. > > We do too much as a organization as it is, and I would ask when does it stop. > > I know, I know you didn’t argue in your message for a guide dog training school for the blind, but I’ve heard the idea being thrown around before. > > If a blind person wants to train dogs, be a lawyer social worker, well, there are law schools, grad school programs in social work, and schools that train guide dogs, and if a blind person is a competent student of law, or psychology, or dog training, I don’t see much reason to segregate ourselves into special programs that teach the blind to teach the blind. > > There is more than guide dog training philosophy here, but it all does come together when trying to understand why people might turn blind people down for dog training work. > > I don’t hire my doctor because she went to the same school I did, or because she may happen to be Brazilian like me. I go to her because I feel she is a great doctor. If I spoke no English, I might find that she was the best match because we could communicate, and she’d be able to treat me. > Likewise, I do not think I would discriminate against the sighted if I were in a position of hiring others. Being blind does not make one any better or worse than a sighted based based on blindness alone. > > I look forward to reading on, and again, thank you Valerie for your informative message. > > Antonio > > On Aug 14, 2014, at 2:04 PM, Valerie Gibson via nabs-l wrote: > >> Hi, >> I had this long message typed out on why i thought that a blind person could assist a guide dog user in travel...and then, I erased it. >> At first, saying that a blind person couldn't help a blind user who used a guide dog in travel struck a nerve with me. >> There are so many ways in which that sort of statement could have been taken. >> 1. A blind person can't literally teach a person if he or she has a guide dog. >> 2. A blind person can't train blind person in the proper use of his guide dog, which might indicate >> 3. A blind person cannot train a dog no less a guide dog. >> Not knowing how this was meant is irrelevant because, wether the person is going to say "oh yeah, that's how I meant it." here's my thoughts on why it wouldn't work for a blind person to work with a guide dog user in travel. >> To work with a guide dog user means to work with the team altogether. This means one must know about the person's travel skills on the whole, and not just with a dog. (I'm amazed the amount of people who get guide dogs and still run into people or openly admit being "better with the dog than the cane.") >> That being said, the instructor must also know about dog psychology. How does the dog work? What's his drive level? What's his temperament? How do the two go together? In what ways does the drive of the dog hinder his training? >> These are things you have to know as a dog trainer because it helps you understand the best ways to discipline and praise a dog. A dog with a high drive might respond negatively to correction if that correction might increase the drive. In fact, rarely do you want to increase a dog's drive, but nor do you want to bring the dog down to no drive. A dog with a soft temperament doesn't need a strong correction or it will decrease the drive to the point where the dog will not work. However, giving a dog too soft a correction if it has a harder temperament will only make the dog look at you like, "That all you got?" >> A dog with a high drive that you're trying to correct doesnt need an excited command because that will increase the drive, but rather, a person must be calm but firm. >> 't, we've hopefully established that you need to understand the person, and you need to understand the dog. >> Now you must understand them as a team. How does the handler's temperament affect how the dog works? is the person too hard with the dog in corrections? Too soft? >> These are things that a blind person can work with the person on, and it might take a couple of weeks for the instructor to figure out who the team works, both as individuals and as a whole. >> Blindness is not an issue here, even if it would take some extra work that I'm not sure many people would like to put in as a dog trainer. >> Here's where the real glitch is: >> Every person who trains their dog is different, and so every method of training dogs is different. Even if the school believes one way, the handler may believe another. >> I'm in the process of training my own dog, and I won't go into the amount of times someone's told me, "why do you have a muzzle over his face? he an't breathe." These people mean well, and obviously do not understand how gentle leaers work. >> On top of that, every school has it's own training philosophy, and an instructor at a center would have to know how each school operates it's training regiment. But what if the trainer doesn't agree with that type of training done by a school that the blind user attended? >> I have my training philosophy, and I adapt it for each dog I work with. My philosophy is that all dogs are different, and what works for one might not work for another. >> I use a prong collar on my akita that I'm correctly training. I use it after we've mastered the commands, and he just needs a "Hey! I'm talking to you!" nudge, which is hardly ever, I might add. Because he has a double coat, the prong collar gets his attention. It should also be noted that I know how to use one, and no one should use them without knowing how. >> I would not, however, use a prong collar on a dog because i think that sort of correction is just not needed and there are softer ways in which to correct. >> That being said, many guide dog schools, to me, seem to stick with a certain set of training tools, and many believe the prong collar to be cruel. When used with a soft tempered dog, or a smaller dog, or used incorrectly by the handler, I agree. >> An instructor would have to agree with every philosophy and truing technique used by every guide dog school. >> I know you're pro bay thinking, "no they don't. They can train the dog using the schools' techniques even if they don't agree." and my answer is, "yeah, they can, but I doubt they'd do it for long". for someone who truly loves working with dogs, money won't change how they feel a dog should be treated. >> >> >> On Aug 14, 2014, at 11:12 AM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >> >>> Alright Antonio, I'll bight. Why do you think that blind mobility instructors aren't capable of training people with dog guides? There don't seem to be any real reasons for this apart from the same prejudices that have prevented blind people from teaching mobility at all for decades. If a blind person is competent enough to keep their student safe and help them employ structured discovery, then why aren't they competent enough to do this if the student happens to use a dog? >>> >>> Karl >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l >> To: Sofia Gallo ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:32:38 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> The training at the NFB centers does not include guide dog mobility training. the nobel is based on cane skills, so it would follow that you’d not use your dog while learning to use a cane. >>> >>> I guess the centers like you to practice your cane skills during business hours. I agree that this is a bit slanted towards cane use. >>> >>> I believe the Colorado Center may be more compatible with keeping your dog bond ad training up best for a couple of reasons. >>> >>> The Denver metropolitan area offers you more choices ad opportunities to work your dog on off hours. >>> >>> I don’t know how much one can do out in a place like Roustin. I have a perception that the Louisiana Center is way in the middle of nowhere, so if I had a dog, or wanted to learn city living mobility skills, I’d avoid it. >>> >>> I wish I knew more about other centers to tell you, Sofia, but no matter what I say, there will be a push to say the center i brought up is custodial, or substandard, which may or may not be true. >>> >>> You are the one ultimately responsible for making your choice, and it seems you are doing a great job at asking for information and researching. >>> You might eat to talk to staff, and students at each potential training center, and do your best to get past the hype. Any center r director you talk to wants to recruit you as a student. I can’t blame them. They work for and run the best center around, no matter what that center is. >>> >>> You might be willing to leave your dog with an instructor, under their desk from 8:30 to 4:00, and work your dog in the community after hours. That might work well if you work at it, even though I agree you’re giving up some bonding and hard training from the schools and your time with the animal. >>> >>> The truth of the matter is the NFB centers do not have dog trainers on hand, they employ mobility instructors. Mobility instructors in my opinion should be well versed in training blind people to navigate with a dog, cane, and a hybrid approach. >>> >>> I also don’t think a blind mobility instructor can adequately observe the intricacies of a blind person and dog guide team to provide adequate services and training. >>> >>> Others certainly feel otherwise, which is an interesting debate for a noter time. >>> >>> NFB centers work with blind instructors, and blind mobility trainers are able to train blind students in the use of the cane. >>> >>> I for one wonder what guide dog training schools would think, say, or do if NFB centers started training blind people to navigate with their dogs. >>> >>> It would be interesting to partner with dog guide schools to offer services to dog users at an NFB center, even if at a very limited basis, but that is too far outside the NFB box to ever happen. >>> >>> All that said, Sofia, you could get a lot out of training at an NFB center. It may be the best option available to you. >>> >>> I wish you luck, and hope you find the center tat best suits you. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Antonio >>> >>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> Yea, I'd be interested to know how people handled it since it doesn't sound like I can work with my dog a lot. >>> >>> Beth, that's scary! I wouldn't want to risk that. >>> >>> I'll definitely contact the directors. >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Beth Taurasi via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> Hello, >>> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >>> center with a guide dog. >>> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >>> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >>> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >>> contact her. >>> Miso Kwak >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> To: Matthew Dierckens >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >>> relationship with a dog. >>> >>> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >> wrote: >>> >>> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >>> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >>> obviously to relieve the dog. >>> >>> Matthew Dierckens >>> Macintosh Trainer >>> Blind Access Training >>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>> >>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>> dog? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Roanna, >>> >>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>> important, but >>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >>> attend. The >>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >>> rehab. >>> >>> Best if luck with your research. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Candice Chapman >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Nabs Members, >>> >>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>> one of >>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>> attending one of >>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >>> are out >>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >>> before >>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >>> stories >>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >>> cel%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >>> s%40me.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>> 40gmail..com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > From valandkayla at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 21:39:22 2014 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:39:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] a not so brief story on dog training: your thoughts? Message-ID: <9CF67B79-AAE7-44E0-8C9C-80BB89A53FA6@gmail.com> A few years back, I brought up a debatable topic--dog training. I tried to apply for a dog training school and was denied on the basis of blindness. This sparked a debate of sorts: Can a blind person train a dog? I responded to a discussion post about guide dogs and training, and with that in mind, I'd like to reintroduce this topic, and give you a peek into what I've been doing and my accomplishments. I'd also like to hear your thoughts on the matter, and maybe some of you might have questions, criticisms, or words of caution, all of which are fine. I'm also going to talk about why i decided to do what I've been doing. Understand though that just because I do this does not mean that everyone should. I just thought I'd take this on, and it's working. I pray it stays that way. So, dog truing... I've always loved it since I was a kid. I love learning how animals think and learn. I love studying animal behavior through written observations and applying ecology, sociology and psychology of animals to this. My outlook on dogs is this: Dogs are not people. They are not furry children. They are beings who speak a different language, share a different culture and have a different mindset that we do. Dogs don't just need a leader, they want one, and some moore than others. Even a soft tempered dog will try to take over leadership position if it feels there is no one to guide it. Hard tempered dogs will try more forcefully to take over this spot, because their mothers or other "leaders" were made of sterner stuff. I don't want to bore you with a dog training guide, but that's just the tip of the ice burg for my philosophy. Last december, I purchased a seven and a half week old akita puppy in the hopes that I could train it as a guide dog. I have my reasons for wanting the akita. The easiest way to get a guide dog would obviously be going to a school. Let me say first that I am, in no way, opposed to guide dog schools. Having never been to one, I can not make a judgement call on their training methods, but given that there are many schools, there are probably just as many training methods for their dogs. I didn't, not, go with a school because I wanted to go rogue and didn't want to follow their rules, though I think some of the rules (from what i've heard) are unnecessary. I think guide dog schools are great for people who are taking on a dog for the first time or for people who just don't want to put in the time and effort in training their dogs to guide, or for people who simply don't know how. I applaud guide dog trainers for their work in training tens of dogs at a time to go with handlers who have various life styles. So if training a guide dog would be harder, take up more time, and cost more money than just getting one from a school, why not get one from a school? First I understand dog psychology and how to train a dog. Every trainer has their own philosophy, so mine might be different from your's for example. I also wanted to see if I could do it. If Zion did not become a guide dog, no big deal. At least he would be a very well behaved house pet. So I wasn't hell bent on this dog becoming a guide dog. So a week before christmas, I brought home this akita puppy. I made sure that the breeder gave me one with the temperament that I was wanting rather than it's appearance. Zion's training began the moment I brought him home with crate training and overall good house manners. He never got any extra privileges until he'd proven to respond favorable to the ones he had. For example, he stayed in his crate unless he was playing or training. Never did he get to run around the house. Every three hours, even if he was sleeping, he was made to take a potty break. This often meant me setting an alarm to make sure that I got up. It's a good thing I was on christmas break from school. :) Once he let me know when he had to go out, and as he grew, his potty breaks were at longer intervals. Once he could entertain himself in his kennel, he was allowed to entertain himself in one room of my house, and for only half an hour. Slowly he got more and more privileges. When he was a puppy and hardly had any rights in the home, I would let anyone pet him when we were in public. What you have to understand is that akitas are very hard to train. They an be trained, and yes, labs and goldens and german shepherds are easier, but I knew what I was dealing with when I took on an akita. I believe in trainability, they rank number 48. They learn slower than a lab or retriever, and if not handled correctly, they can be aggressive to other dogs and people. They have a natural instinct to guard and protect and often times, they have a mind of their own. Training an akita is very different than training a lab or retriever. Akitas also reach physical and psychological maturation a year or so later than a lab or retriever. When I started training Zion, i got a lot of frowns (and I'm sure some eye rolling) from both blind and sighted people. A lady who worked at Zion's puppy obedience class and is also a former trainer from a guide dog school that shall remain nameless, would often say to me (after Zion was being really stubborn), "See why it takes a specialized team to train guide dogs?" Even the trainers who were on board with my training him as a potential guide dog would all of a sudden have their doubts after speaking with this lady. This was very disheartening. I wasn't discouraged at my dog's behavior, but at the lack of support I was getting. I'd taken him to the class to get back in the groove of training and to speak with fellow trainers. I guess, for some reason, I was amazed at a sighted trainer who trains dogs for blind people be discouraging to a blind person in training her own dog. The funny thing was, when she made that comment, we weren't even training guide work. It was simple obedience. I stopped going to that class. By that time, I'd gotten down the basics and was going to teach my dog on my own. Zion went with me almost everywhere, and he hung out almost entirely with guide dogs. I used a dog that I'd previously trained to teach him commands, because it was a very quick way for him to learn. He learned a lot from the guide dogs too. When he was three months, he was potty trained, and he could lie under tables at restaurants and not be a bother (though I'm sure the fellow dogs under the table with him would disagree.). Allow me to take a quick detour in the writing. There's a lot of hype about people taking their pets, buying a "service dog in training" patch and some "documentation", and claiming their dog's a service dog. This royally ticks me off, probably more than i t would for you who has a guide dog. It gives people like me a bad name because I've got about just as much resource to back it up as they do, with the addition that my dog speaks for himself. For another, I've put a lot of time into this dog's training. For another, this dog has cost me roughly 3 thousand dollars right now, and he's only mine months, and that's not including the medical issues we've been battling. I completely understand and agree with service dog trainer's feelings when it comes to this issue because I know they're putting more money and work into the dogs than I am. I've heard that soon businesses will have a legal right to see documentation on service animals, and I agree with this. Now that that is said, I took zion almost everywhere with me. As his restrictions got less and less at hime, they got stricter in public. Now, people had to ask me to pet him, and they could only do so if he sat down politely. When he was about seven months, he began to wear a harness with "service dog in training" patches on each side of it. By this time, he was used to going places with me, and he knew what I expected out of him. Did that mean that he did not test me? Absolutely not! He wore the harness at first to get used to the feel of it, but he was still walked on leash. At night, when no one was around, i walked him up and down the corridors of my apartment to teach him what it would feel like for someone to be holding onto the harness. Luckily the apartment has pretty distinct left and right turns, and even at nine months, we're still working on those. The first break through for me came on August second. I'd let him guide me before to the train station or to the front office, but I always had my cane out. This time, I was not going to use my cane at all. Dangerous? sure, but if i didn't give him, and myself, a test, how would I know what he'd learned. Apart from getting distracted a few times, he led me to the train, guiding me around planters and pausing at stairs. I knew that this didn't mean that he could guide me anywhere. It just meant he had the idea of what he was supposed to do. If things are too distracting for him, I'd never let him do that, but if I feel that he can work and there are not too many distractions, I will trust him to guide me. I will never put him in a situation where he would fail as a guide because he is still in the learning and correcting phase. That's another thing. Having never had a guide dog before, it was my responsibility to have trust in my training and in him, and that was a big step for me too. Since then, zion has guided me to the front office, to the train, to walmart, to petco and back to my apartment. These are places that I know really well, so it's easy for me to correct him when I know he's made a wrong turn or is distracted. Zion can find petco better than I can with a cane. Imagine that. :) At some point soon, I am hoping to get certified with the association of professional dog Trainers so that I can train other people dogs and maybe see if the NFB can't have a national association of blind dog trainers. :) This certification would also give me some credibility in the work that he will be doing. Right now, it's very difficult to find a trainer who will back you if you're a blind person training your own dog. Throw on a "service dog" title, and it's almost impossible.The only thing that I would not train when it comes to dogs is dogs with aggression issues. I think that this is where a blind person must draw the line. Dogs communicate through body language, and it's easy to tell what body language the dog is giving off but with aggression, you need to know, and you can't afford to make a wrong move. One could argue that a growl is a sign of aggression, but that's not always the case, and if it is, the dog has given off a few body signals before the growl that a trainer must notice. You never want to get to a point where your dog feels the need to growl because that's usually the last signal it will give before snapping. I'd be interested to hear any feedback from dog lovers. If anyone has any questions, I'd be eager to try and answer them, but I i do not have all the answers. Zion's training is no where near finished, but even sighted people tell me: "he's come a long way as a puppy." I once was told by someone that they had reservations that I was really training him as a guide dog, but they can see thahaht he would make a good guide dog. If anyone has trained their own guide dog, please email me. I'd love to hear of your experiences, and throw around some ideas on how best to train. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I hope it was enlightening and not too boring. :) If you want me to keep you posted on Zion's training, I can do that. Everyone have a good rest of the day and good luck in school next semester. :) From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 21:44:39 2014 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 14:44:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and working one's guide. In-Reply-To: <1F409682-20CD-4714-B471-3592E581C05B@gmail.com> References: <53ecee13.e733ec0a.1cf4.3c88@mx.google.com> <9C9371D5-7059-4E72-AA91-B51DC2D65AED@gmail.com> <1F409682-20CD-4714-B471-3592E581C05B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6BC45C62-030C-443B-889D-3DBB5D467DD1@gmail.com> Hi all, I’ve not gotten the opportunity to read every post on this topic, but it seems like another great discussion on a popular topic. it has always seemed to me that the decision to get quality adjustment to blindness training and where to get that training is a personal decision. It always seemed to me that there were always concerns each person had in regards to where they might go, the length of time of the training, the classes they would be asked to take,the usage of a cane, the usage of sleep shades, and other such considerations. As well, the decision to get a guide dog is a personal one. One is thinking about such things as where to go for the training, when to go, if its better than a cane,the social considerations, the lifestyle considerations, and all rights, privileges and responsibilities that go with it. what has always interested me is when the decision to get a dog guide and get training seem to meet. I have known of my share of folks who have gone about the process of training with a dog guide, and they have generally found that it was the best experience they have ever had, that having a guide allows them the freedom they never had before and that if given the choice they would gladly throw their cane away. I would say that I have met folks who have graduated from training centers (mostly NFB training centers) that would say they made the best decision they could have made by getting the training, that with the skills they have gotten they feel as free as ever and would never get a dog. What’s interesting is that in my experience there are three main things that become the largest concerns for people aside from rehab paying for the training 1. time, 2. sleep shades, and 3. having to use a cane. To the first point, there are two schools of thought here: 1. nine months might be a large chunk of time to some, but is it really in exchange for the lifetime of confidence and competence you will gain, the types of things that will always be yours? 2 any time at a center is better than no time at all. You gain so much by learning the skills and gaining the confidence, that it is mostly about maximizing the time you have. to sleepshades. Many start out hesitant about them, many still struggle with it during training, but many more than not find that when you stick with using the sleep shades you really learn the alternative techniques of blindness and you really come to benefit in a lasting way. The most controversial seems to be the cane (I am sure to get some disagreement here, and it won’t be bad if I do) for many of us, blindness comes with a number of stigmas and stereotypes. Many times we are encouraged to hide our blindness, to use large print over braille, to use an identification cane partially over a more substantial cane full-time. Sometimes when we are old enough to be on our own or when we start to lose our vision we are encouraged to get a dog guide with the idea that it is more socially acceptable to have a dog over a “stick”, that independence comes more easily or something like that. It seems to me that much of these notions if not all of them are things that we ought not fall into falsely believing. It seems to me that the training centers give you a base, a foundation of positive philosophy and blindness skills. that after gaining those skills one can make a more informed decision regarding if they use braille and when,if a dog guide makes sense to have, or not and more. I don’t think any training center is going to be perfect, and there are probably ways they might improve. I think that if you were to ask a number of people on this list, you might find that many of us would say that the training was worth every moment spent acquiring the skills and that now living the life we want is more realistic than we ever realized. in the end it is about what the individual needs to make their lives the best they can make of it and at minimum we as human beings trying to find our place in the world deserve . to explore and take advantage of what might allow us this. Thank you, Darian . . . On Aug 15, 2014, at 1:13 PM, Valerie Gibson via nabs-l wrote: > Hi, > > I did not mean to contradict myself in my previous long post. > > A blind person can teach a guide dog team, but only if that blind trainer aggress with the training philosophy that went into that dog's training. This could also be said for a sighted person. > > I believe that the reason this might not work is because you've got a lot of people from various guide dog school coming into centers, and those guide dog schools have various training methods of training dogs. > On Aug 15, 2014, at 6:48 AM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > >> Valerie, >> >> Thank you for your message, especially since you had to type it twice, and still got your thoughts out there. >> >> I am hoping to be swayed, or at least have a better understanding how blind people can train a blind and dog team for mobility. >> >> I am slightly confused when you said that here is why a blind person can’t teach guide dog work. Then you made great points on how a blind person would be able to do it. >> >> I don’t think it is difficult to gage the dog’s temperament, and to understand also the person’s energy, then match all that to see how the tea works together. >> >> This is all very interesting since it gives me information I didn’t realize went into matching a person with a dog. >> >> In my case, I am a mello person, and was matched with a very energetic gold retriever. I needed a dog with a very light pull, and that is what I god. >> >> What you do training dogs may be frowned upon by many, including most schools, and many dog users, and blind observers. But you prove to me to be good at what you do, and you love it, too. >> >> I would not sign on to an individual trainer for my guide dog, blind or sighted. Maybe excluding those trainers who came from the background of working at a dog guide school. I would in the latter case question why that trainer left the school. >> >> I think the schools are there for a reason, and they know what they are doing. They offer follow up and support for their grads, so I would much prefer to be actively involved with a school. >> >> Now, I may not mind having you train my dog. I think you know what you’re doing, you know dogs and people, and you are competent. I don’t know your background, but I can say with certainty you love dogs, and have been around them for a long time. >> >> You have the skills, the love, and the drive to teach dogs to guide, or to do other things. I can tell from your message that you have a large repertoire of techniques you use. >> >> You made no mention of how much you can see in the original message, and it doesn’t really matter if you’re applying for a job, and you sound like a great candidate, and you’re going to train my dog. >> >> If you were to do that, I might freak out when I found out you are blind, which is how we usually experience things. Prejudice is all around, including from those of us who are blind. >> >> If you did sign up to train my dog, and I freaked out by your being blind, you would no doubt tell me how you do what you do. I might listen, and be reassured by your awesome ability and skill. >> >> If I refused to work with you based on my conceived notion you could not do the job because blindness is a limitation, I would not be a person you’d want to work with anyway. >> >> If I am prejudicial, or if I decide your services will not fit my needs or personality, we probably would clash as a team of trainer, client, dog working towards the same goal. >> >> It is my philosophy that if an employer does not think I can do the job, and if she is not willing to look at the issue with an open mind, then I can’t do the job, and she’s not going to let me prove otherwise. This is worth pointing out since it shows how I think about working with those employers who don’t believe the blind person, I can do the job. >> >> I have to prove myself equal or better than the sighted worker to be taken seriously, or I’ll be screened out of most jobs. >> >> We need to understand that if we’re going to work as a blind anything: teacher, social worker, or guide dog trainer. >> >> You did interest me in being more willing to have a blind person, you, train m future, make believe dog. I will probably not get another guide any time soon, but I have more confidence that you could do it. >> >> But I would not hire an dog trainer because they went to LA Tech, or because they are a member of the NFB, or because they are certified by some kennel association or another. >> >> Credentials are important, and required, but I’d hire you to train my dog because I believed you can do the job better, or more conveniently than another. >> >> I would not hire a blind dog trainer because they are blind, and that must automatically qualify them better than a sighted person to teach a blind person. I would not join in, or support a fight to open up a guide dog training program for blind people run by or closely affiliated with the NFB. >> >> We do too much as a organization as it is, and I would ask when does it stop. >> >> I know, I know you didn’t argue in your message for a guide dog training school for the blind, but I’ve heard the idea being thrown around before. >> >> If a blind person wants to train dogs, be a lawyer social worker, well, there are law schools, grad school programs in social work, and schools that train guide dogs, and if a blind person is a competent student of law, or psychology, or dog training, I don’t see much reason to segregate ourselves into special programs that teach the blind to teach the blind. >> >> There is more than guide dog training philosophy here, but it all does come together when trying to understand why people might turn blind people down for dog training work. >> >> I don’t hire my doctor because she went to the same school I did, or because she may happen to be Brazilian like me. I go to her because I feel she is a great doctor. If I spoke no English, I might find that she was the best match because we could communicate, and she’d be able to treat me. >> Likewise, I do not think I would discriminate against the sighted if I were in a position of hiring others. Being blind does not make one any better or worse than a sighted based based on blindness alone. >> >> I look forward to reading on, and again, thank you Valerie for your informative message. >> >> Antonio >> >> On Aug 14, 2014, at 2:04 PM, Valerie Gibson via nabs-l wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> I had this long message typed out on why i thought that a blind person could assist a guide dog user in travel...and then, I erased it. >>> At first, saying that a blind person couldn't help a blind user who used a guide dog in travel struck a nerve with me. >>> There are so many ways in which that sort of statement could have been taken. >>> 1. A blind person can't literally teach a person if he or she has a guide dog. >>> 2. A blind person can't train blind person in the proper use of his guide dog, which might indicate >>> 3. A blind person cannot train a dog no less a guide dog. >>> Not knowing how this was meant is irrelevant because, wether the person is going to say "oh yeah, that's how I meant it." here's my thoughts on why it wouldn't work for a blind person to work with a guide dog user in travel. >>> To work with a guide dog user means to work with the team altogether. This means one must know about the person's travel skills on the whole, and not just with a dog. (I'm amazed the amount of people who get guide dogs and still run into people or openly admit being "better with the dog than the cane.") >>> That being said, the instructor must also know about dog psychology. How does the dog work? What's his drive level? What's his temperament? How do the two go together? In what ways does the drive of the dog hinder his training? >>> These are things you have to know as a dog trainer because it helps you understand the best ways to discipline and praise a dog. A dog with a high drive might respond negatively to correction if that correction might increase the drive. In fact, rarely do you want to increase a dog's drive, but nor do you want to bring the dog down to no drive. A dog with a soft temperament doesn't need a strong correction or it will decrease the drive to the point where the dog will not work. However, giving a dog too soft a correction if it has a harder temperament will only make the dog look at you like, "That all you got?" >>> A dog with a high drive that you're trying to correct doesnt need an excited command because that will increase the drive, but rather, a person must be calm but firm. >>> 't, we've hopefully established that you need to understand the person, and you need to understand the dog. >>> Now you must understand them as a team. How does the handler's temperament affect how the dog works? is the person too hard with the dog in corrections? Too soft? >>> These are things that a blind person can work with the person on, and it might take a couple of weeks for the instructor to figure out who the team works, both as individuals and as a whole. >>> Blindness is not an issue here, even if it would take some extra work that I'm not sure many people would like to put in as a dog trainer. >>> Here's where the real glitch is: >>> Every person who trains their dog is different, and so every method of training dogs is different. Even if the school believes one way, the handler may believe another. >>> I'm in the process of training my own dog, and I won't go into the amount of times someone's told me, "why do you have a muzzle over his face? he an't breathe." These people mean well, and obviously do not understand how gentle leaers work. >>> On top of that, every school has it's own training philosophy, and an instructor at a center would have to know how each school operates it's training regiment. But what if the trainer doesn't agree with that type of training done by a school that the blind user attended? >>> I have my training philosophy, and I adapt it for each dog I work with. My philosophy is that all dogs are different, and what works for one might not work for another. >>> I use a prong collar on my akita that I'm correctly training. I use it after we've mastered the commands, and he just needs a "Hey! I'm talking to you!" nudge, which is hardly ever, I might add. Because he has a double coat, the prong collar gets his attention. It should also be noted that I know how to use one, and no one should use them without knowing how. >>> I would not, however, use a prong collar on a dog because i think that sort of correction is just not needed and there are softer ways in which to correct. >>> That being said, many guide dog schools, to me, seem to stick with a certain set of training tools, and many believe the prong collar to be cruel. When used with a soft tempered dog, or a smaller dog, or used incorrectly by the handler, I agree. >>> An instructor would have to agree with every philosophy and truing technique used by every guide dog school. >>> I know you're pro bay thinking, "no they don't. They can train the dog using the schools' techniques even if they don't agree." and my answer is, "yeah, they can, but I doubt they'd do it for long". for someone who truly loves working with dogs, money won't change how they feel a dog should be treated. >>> >>> >>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 11:12 AM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>>> Alright Antonio, I'll bight. Why do you think that blind mobility instructors aren't capable of training people with dog guides? There don't seem to be any real reasons for this apart from the same prejudices that have prevented blind people from teaching mobility at all for decades. If a blind person is competent enough to keep their student safe and help them employ structured discovery, then why aren't they competent enough to do this if the student happens to use a dog? >>>> >>>> Karl >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l >>> To: Sofia Gallo ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:32:38 -0400 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> The training at the NFB centers does not include guide dog mobility training. the nobel is based on cane skills, so it would follow that you’d not use your dog while learning to use a cane. >>>> >>>> I guess the centers like you to practice your cane skills during business hours. I agree that this is a bit slanted towards cane use. >>>> >>>> I believe the Colorado Center may be more compatible with keeping your dog bond ad training up best for a couple of reasons. >>>> >>>> The Denver metropolitan area offers you more choices ad opportunities to work your dog on off hours. >>>> >>>> I don’t know how much one can do out in a place like Roustin. I have a perception that the Louisiana Center is way in the middle of nowhere, so if I had a dog, or wanted to learn city living mobility skills, I’d avoid it. >>>> >>>> I wish I knew more about other centers to tell you, Sofia, but no matter what I say, there will be a push to say the center i brought up is custodial, or substandard, which may or may not be true. >>>> >>>> You are the one ultimately responsible for making your choice, and it seems you are doing a great job at asking for information and researching. >>>> You might eat to talk to staff, and students at each potential training center, and do your best to get past the hype. Any center r director you talk to wants to recruit you as a student. I can’t blame them. They work for and run the best center around, no matter what that center is. >>>> >>>> You might be willing to leave your dog with an instructor, under their desk from 8:30 to 4:00, and work your dog in the community after hours. That might work well if you work at it, even though I agree you’re giving up some bonding and hard training from the schools and your time with the animal. >>>> >>>> The truth of the matter is the NFB centers do not have dog trainers on hand, they employ mobility instructors. Mobility instructors in my opinion should be well versed in training blind people to navigate with a dog, cane, and a hybrid approach. >>>> >>>> I also don’t think a blind mobility instructor can adequately observe the intricacies of a blind person and dog guide team to provide adequate services and training. >>>> >>>> Others certainly feel otherwise, which is an interesting debate for a noter time. >>>> >>>> NFB centers work with blind instructors, and blind mobility trainers are able to train blind students in the use of the cane. >>>> >>>> I for one wonder what guide dog training schools would think, say, or do if NFB centers started training blind people to navigate with their dogs. >>>> >>>> It would be interesting to partner with dog guide schools to offer services to dog users at an NFB center, even if at a very limited basis, but that is too far outside the NFB box to ever happen. >>>> >>>> All that said, Sofia, you could get a lot out of training at an NFB center. It may be the best option available to you. >>>> >>>> I wish you luck, and hope you find the center tat best suits you. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Antonio >>>> >>>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> >>>> Yea, I'd be interested to know how people handled it since it doesn't sound like I can work with my dog a lot. >>>> >>>> Beth, that's scary! I wouldn't want to risk that. >>>> >>>> I'll definitely contact the directors. >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 9, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Beth Taurasi via nabs-l wrote: >>>> >>>> There's a problem with guiide dogs and training. There's the possibility of separation anxiety for the dog, which one of my FB friends wrote in a heartrending manner. She's not getting her dog back due to traiing. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Miso Kwak via nabs-l >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I am sure some people on this list have experience of attending an NFB >>>> center with a guide dog. >>>> I know that Pam Allen who is the director of Louisiana Center for the >>>> Blind did her training when she had a guide dog. I was in contact with >>>> her regarding related issues and she told me this. You may want to >>>> contact her. >>>> Miso Kwak >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> To: Matthew Dierckens >>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Sent: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 6:58 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> That unfortunately doesn't sound like enough to maintain a working >>>> relationship with a dog. >>>> >>>> Are there centers not affiliated with NFB? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Matthew Dierckens >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> You use an NFB straight cane from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. >>>> You're free to use your dog to go to and from the apartments, and >>>> obviously to relieve the dog. >>>> >>>> Matthew Dierckens >>>> Macintosh Trainer >>>> Blind Access Training >>>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>>> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>>> Introduction to the Macintosh Operating system and voiceover course >>>> available now. Spots are limited, sign up here >>>> http://blindaccesstraining.com/training-courses/ >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 13:55, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I also have a question about the training center: I really want to go >>>> to one some time soon because it would help me address areas that I >>>> need work in like navigating unfamiliar places and improving >>>> independent living skills. However, I've heard that the centers don't >>>> let us work with guide dogs -- we can only do that in our free time. >>>> I've felt a lot safer and more independent with my dog, and I can't >>>> just stop working with her for 9 months, which keeps me from >>>> considering a center even though it would really help me. Does anyone >>>> have any input or does anyone know someone who has gone with a guide >>>> dog? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> On 8/8/14, Candice Chapman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Roanna, >>>> >>>> You're right. Talking with family and your rehab counselor is >>>> important, but >>>> another important place to start is the NFB center you want to >>>> attend. The >>>> center can be helpful in assisting with issues you may have with >>>> rehab. >>>> >>>> Best if luck with your research. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Candice Chapman >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2014, at 8:43 AM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Nabs Members, >>>> >>>> I have a question for all of you. How would you prepare to attend >>>> one of >>>> the Nfb training centers? I know that you have to discuss >>>> attending one of >>>> these facilities with your vocational rehab counselor since they >>>> are out >>>> of state. I'm assuming that each of you spoke to your families >>>> before >>>> planning to attend one of these centers. I'd like to hear your >>>> stories >>>> about preparing to attend an Nfb training center. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chapman.candi >>>> cel%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken >>>> s%40me.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40ao >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bethslists%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >>>> 40gmail..com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 22:27:21 2014 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 18:27:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] a not so brief story on dog training: your thoughts? In-Reply-To: <9CF67B79-AAE7-44E0-8C9C-80BB89A53FA6@gmail.com> References: <9CF67B79-AAE7-44E0-8C9C-80BB89A53FA6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Valorie, Thanks for sharing this story with us. I have a guide dog from GDB in Oregon and she ouldn't be more perfect for me. But I can definitely see the appeal in training your own guide dog because you have the control from beginning to end. You should post this on the NAGDU list though because there are a lot more owner trainers of guide dogs than you might think. And many of them are veterans at the job, having trained multiple guides over the years. Good luck. Minh On 8/15/14, Valerie Gibson via nabs-l wrote: > A few years back, I brought up a debatable topic--dog training. > > I tried to apply for a dog training school and was denied on the basis > of blindness. This sparked a debate of sorts: Can a blind person train a > dog? > I responded to a discussion post about guide dogs and training, and with > that in mind, I'd like to reintroduce this topic, and give you a peek into > what I've been doing and my accomplishments. I'd also like to hear your > thoughts on the matter, and maybe some of you might have questions, > criticisms, or words of caution, all of which are fine. > I'm also going to talk about why i decided to do what I've been doing. > Understand though that just because I do this does not mean that everyone > should. I just thought I'd take this on, and it's working. I pray it stays > that way. > So, dog truing... > I've always loved it since I was a kid. I love learning how animals think > and learn. I love studying animal behavior through written observations and > applying ecology, sociology and psychology of animals to this. > My outlook on dogs is this: Dogs are not people. They are not furry > children. They are beings who speak a different language, share a different > culture and have a different mindset that we do. Dogs don't just need a > leader, they want one, and some moore than others. Even a soft tempered dog > will try to take over leadership position if it feels there is no one to > guide it. Hard tempered dogs will try more forcefully to take over this > spot, because their mothers or other "leaders" were made of sterner stuff. > I don't want to bore you with a dog training guide, but that's just the tip > of the ice burg for my philosophy. > Last december, I purchased a seven and a half week old akita puppy in the > hopes that I could train it as a guide dog. I have my reasons for wanting > the akita. > The easiest way to get a guide dog would obviously be going to a school. > Let me say first that I am, in no way, opposed to guide dog schools. Having > never been to one, I can not make a judgement call on their training > methods, but given that there are many schools, there are probably just as > many training methods for their dogs. > I didn't, not, go with a school because I wanted to go rogue and didn't want > to follow their rules, though I think some of the rules (from what i've > heard) are unnecessary. > I think guide dog schools are great for people who are taking on a dog for > the first time or for people who just don't want to put in the time and > effort in training their dogs to guide, or for people who simply don't know > how. I applaud guide dog trainers for their work in training tens of dogs > at a time to go with handlers who have various life styles. > So if training a guide dog would be harder, take up more time, and cost more > money than just getting one from a school, why not get one from a school? > First I understand dog psychology and how to train a dog. Every trainer has > their own philosophy, so mine might be different from your's for example. I > also wanted to see if I could do it. If Zion did not become a guide dog, no > big deal. At least he would be a very well behaved house pet. So I wasn't > hell bent on this dog becoming a guide dog. > So a week before christmas, I brought home this akita puppy. I made sure > that the breeder gave me one with the temperament that I was wanting rather > than it's appearance. > Zion's training began the moment I brought him home with crate training and > overall good house manners. He never got any extra privileges until he'd > proven to respond favorable to the ones he had. For example, he stayed in > his crate unless he was playing or training. Never did he get to run around > the house. Every three hours, even if he was sleeping, he was made to take > a potty break. This often meant me setting an alarm to make sure that I got > up. It's a good thing I was on christmas break from school. :) > Once he let me know when he had to go out, and as he grew, his potty breaks > were at longer intervals. Once he could entertain himself in his kennel, he > was allowed to entertain himself in one room of my house, and for only half > an hour. > Slowly he got more and more privileges. When he was a puppy and hardly had > any rights in the home, I would let anyone pet him when we were in public. > What you have to understand is that akitas are very hard to train. They an > be trained, and yes, labs and goldens and german shepherds are easier, but I > knew what I was dealing with when I took on an akita. I believe in > trainability, they rank number 48. They learn slower than a lab or > retriever, and if not handled correctly, they can be aggressive to other > dogs and people. They have a natural instinct to guard and protect and often > times, they have a mind of their own. Training an akita is very different > than training a lab or retriever. > Akitas also reach physical and psychological maturation a year or so later > than a lab or retriever. > When I started training Zion, i got a lot of frowns (and I'm sure some eye > rolling) from both blind and sighted people. > A lady who worked at Zion's puppy obedience class and is also a former > trainer from a guide dog school that shall remain nameless, would often say > to me (after Zion was being really stubborn), "See why it takes a > specialized team to train guide dogs?" Even the trainers who were on board > with my training him as a potential guide dog would all of a sudden have > their doubts after speaking with this lady. > This was very disheartening. I wasn't discouraged at my dog's behavior, but > at the lack of support I was getting. I'd taken him to the class to get > back in the groove of training and to speak with fellow trainers. I guess, > for some reason, I was amazed at a sighted trainer who trains dogs for blind > people be discouraging to a blind person in training her own dog. The funny > thing was, when she made that comment, we weren't even training guide work. > It was simple obedience. > I stopped going to that class. By that time, I'd gotten down the basics and > was going to teach my dog on my own. > Zion went with me almost everywhere, and he hung out almost entirely with > guide dogs. I used a dog that I'd previously trained to teach him commands, > because it was a very quick way for him to learn. He learned a lot from the > guide dogs too. When he was three months, he was potty trained, and he > could lie under tables at restaurants and not be a bother (though I'm sure > the fellow dogs under the table with him would disagree.). > Allow me to take a quick detour in the writing. > There's a lot of hype about people taking their pets, buying a "service dog > in training" patch and some "documentation", and claiming their dog's a > service dog. This royally ticks me off, probably more than i t would for > you who has a guide dog. > It gives people like me a bad name because I've got about just as much > resource to back it up as they do, with the addition that my dog speaks for > himself. For another, I've put a lot of time into this dog's training. For > another, this dog has cost me roughly 3 thousand dollars right now, and he's > only mine months, and that's not including the medical issues we've been > battling. I completely understand and agree with service dog trainer's > feelings when it comes to this issue because I know they're putting more > money and work into the dogs than I am. > I've heard that soon businesses will have a legal right to see documentation > on service animals, and I agree with this. > Now that that is said, I took zion almost everywhere with me. As his > restrictions got less and less at hime, they got stricter in public. Now, > people had to ask me to pet him, and they could only do so if he sat down > politely. > When he was about seven months, he began to wear a harness with "service dog > in training" patches on each side of it. By this time, he was used to going > places with me, and he knew what I expected out of him. Did that mean that > he did not test me? Absolutely not! > He wore the harness at first to get used to the feel of it, but he was still > walked on leash. At night, when no one was around, i walked him up and down > the corridors of my apartment to teach him what it would feel like for > someone to be holding onto the harness. Luckily the apartment has pretty > distinct left and right turns, and even at nine months, we're still working > on those. > The first break through for me came on August second. I'd let him guide me > before to the train station or to the front office, but I always had my cane > out. This time, I was not going to use my cane at all. > Dangerous? sure, but if i didn't give him, and myself, a test, how would I > know what he'd learned. > Apart from getting distracted a few times, he led me to the train, guiding > me around planters and pausing at stairs. > I knew that this didn't mean that he could guide me anywhere. It just meant > he had the idea of what he was supposed to do. > If things are too distracting for him, I'd never let him do that, but if I > feel that he can work and there are not too many distractions, I will trust > him to guide me. I will never put him in a situation where he would fail as > a guide because he is still in the learning and correcting phase. > That's another thing. Having never had a guide dog before, it was my > responsibility to have trust in my training and in him, and that was a big > step for me too. > Since then, zion has guided me to the front office, to the train, to > walmart, to petco and back to my apartment. These are places that I know > really well, so it's easy for me to correct him when I know he's made a > wrong turn or is distracted. Zion can find petco better than I can with a > cane. Imagine that. :) > At some point soon, I am hoping to get certified with the association of > professional dog Trainers so that I can train other people dogs and maybe > see if the NFB can't have a national association of blind dog trainers. :) > This certification would also give me some credibility in the work that he > will be doing. Right now, it's very difficult to find a trainer who will > back you if you're a blind person training your own dog. Throw on a > "service dog" title, and it's almost impossible.The only thing that I would > not train when it comes to dogs is dogs with aggression issues. I think > that this is where a blind person must draw the line. Dogs communicate > through body language, and it's easy to tell what body language the dog is > giving off but with aggression, you need to know, and you can't afford to > make a wrong move. One could argue that a growl is a sign of aggression, > but that's not always the case, and if it is, the dog has given off a few > body signals before the growl that a trainer must notice. You never want to > get to a point where your dog feels the need to growl because that's usually > the last signal it will give before snapping. > I'd be interested to hear any feedback from dog lovers. If anyone has any > questions, I'd be eager to try and answer them, but I i do not have all the > answers. Zion's training is no where near finished, but even sighted people > tell me: "he's come a long way as a puppy." I once was told by someone that > they had reservations that I was really training him as a guide dog, but > they can see thahaht he would make a good guide dog. > If anyone has trained their own guide dog, please email me. I'd love to hear > of your experiences, and throw around some ideas on how best to train. > > Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I hope it was enlightening and > not too boring. :) > > If you want me to keep you posted on Zion's training, I can do that. > > Everyone have a good rest of the day and good luck in school next semester. > :) > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com > -- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence From brice.smith319 at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 00:52:15 2014 From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 20:52:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <53ee0aaf.070c320a.2647.44e2@mx.google.com> References: <53ee0aaf.070c320a.2647.44e2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7F8AD563-C509-4FB3-8820-87E343B33E72@gmail.com> I have two concerns with this message. First, training and skill, not blindness, qualifies someone for teaching. While blind people may have an innate comfort with blindness subjects, this does not make them any more capable of teaching than anyone else. Second, it sounds like you are implying that sighted instructors do not gain practical knowledge when learning to teach blindness skills, such as orientation and mobility. You cannot make a comparable comparison between sighted instructors teaching blindness skills and an unqualified lawyer or social worker. It would be ridiculous to assume that otherwise qualified sighted instructors in the blindness/educational field only learn from a book. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 15, 2014, at 9:27 AM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi Antonio, > > I definitely agree that for most jobs it doesn't matter if you're blind or not and we shouldn't segregate ourselves. Being blind does make one more qualified for certain jobs though. If I want someone to teach me blindness skills like O and M or daily living skills or how to use a dog, I'd much rather have a blind person doing it because they have experience using the things they're teaching instead of just learning them from a book. For the same reason, if I want to be a lawyer or a social worker I'd rather study under people who have practiced as lawyers or social workers. It's not about discrimination; it's about the difference between book knowledge and practical knowledge. > > Best, > Karl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l To: Valerie Gibson ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 08:48:27 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Valerie, > > Thank you for your message, especially since you had to type it twice, and still got your thoughts out there. > > I am hoping to be swayed, or at least have a better understanding how blind people can train a blind and dog team for mobility. > > I am slightly confused when you said that here is why a blind person can’t teach guide dog work. Then you made great points on how a blind person would be able to do it. > > I don’t think it is difficult to gage the dog’s temperament, and to understand also the person’s energy, then match all that to see how the tea works together. > > This is all very interesting since it gives me information I didn’t realize went into matching a person with a dog. > > In my case, I am a mello person, and was matched with a very energetic gold retriever. I needed a dog with a very light pull, and that is what I god. > > What you do training dogs may be frowned upon by many, including most schools, and many dog users, and blind observers. But you prove to me to be good at what you do, and you love it, too. > > I would not sign on to an individual trainer for my guide dog, blind or sighted. Maybe excluding those trainers who came from the background of working at a dog guide school. I would in the latter case question why that trainer left the school. > > I think the schools are there for a reason, and they know what they are doing. They offer follow up and support for their grads, so I would much prefer to be actively involved with a school. > > Now, I may not mind having you train my dog. I think you know what you’re doing, you know dogs and people, and you are competent. I don’t know your background, but I can say with certainty you love dogs, and have been around them for a long time. > > You have the skills, the love, and the drive to teach dogs to guide, or to do other things. I can tell from your message that you have a large repertoire of techniques you use. > > You made no mention of how much you can see in the original message, and it doesn’t really matter if you’re applying for a job, and you sound like a great candidate, and you’re going to train my dog. > > If you were to do that, I might freak out when I found out you are blind, which is how we usually experience things. Prejudice is all around, including from those of us who are blind > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 03:41:20 2014 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 23:41:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <0NAD0022748XP9B0@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0NAD0022748XP9B0@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet etiquette, but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already will care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just tells me that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, calling individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list moderators like Mary and Dave. I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it would be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I like the idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers complete the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't Agree buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I think that would make it much harder for people to just say they were ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we can say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had an equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion that when you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already all equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list operates that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go and to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about deleting a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal promotion stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't necessarily read what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is doing and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young adults, it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather interested parties. There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say, don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide by this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently respond negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate emails on list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue the inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly repeat offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in their emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those people off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an eye on for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method for doing so. On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > > I agree with everything that's been said so far. > > I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more > often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every > 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've > registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted > once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be > aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they have > caused trouble on here. > Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they > submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the > guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person > would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they > accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second > chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on > "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. > > About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of > discussions are fine as long as people are not personally > insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a > discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and > talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts > to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. > > These are just my thoughts. > > Thanks, > > Sami. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National > Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > > I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice > if > folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A single > off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge > thread > of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding > someone > who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a > post > bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so > they > can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you > aren't > sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the > moderators > privately. These are just my suggestions. > Arielle > > On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l > wrote: > Mary and all, > > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been > brought up. > > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the > opportunity to be > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines > which suspended > or banned people from list for violations. > > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, > and I never > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and > are not > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could > have been > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have > the chance > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the > moderators. > > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent > enough that they > don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. > > One much example are the periodic announcements from David about > internet > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide > the > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with > no stress. I'm > sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a > member's > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. > > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about > others, or > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and > sensitive topics. > > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, > stay on topic, > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. > > Antonio > > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l > wrote: > > Good evening all, > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or > lack > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on > the > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to > be a > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, > parents > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which > means that > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, > anyone, > conducts a Google search. > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, > which > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you > contact them > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and > forth, > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards > others. > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among > list > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion > about > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but > I'm > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be > polite and > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have > strong > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my > email > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. > > Thank you, > Sincerely, > Your list moderator, > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made > them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver > izon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 04:10:07 2014 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:10:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: <0NAD0022748XP9B0@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of people taking advantage of the fact that other list members can't necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted attention off-list. I know policing such matters is impractical, but it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back on Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a connection or in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random emails to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think people would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if things like this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of people on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which says something about how permission should be gained before sending a messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend someone on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to be friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette guidelines, there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this behavior is due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and the person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to properly correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done without severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few years I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to respond to something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they were too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought they would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed things like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want to stifle any of these things and have actually made some good friends through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the NABS list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when some random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on different social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check or didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really didn't need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either not checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations because I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, or am not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal information. I think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and especially puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since this is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you alone gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for dealing with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails just keep coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet etiquette, > but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already will > care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just tells me > that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, calling > individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the > negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is > probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list moderators > like Mary and Dave. > > I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it would > be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I like the > idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers complete > the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't Agree > buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I think > that would make it much harder for people to just say they were > ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. > Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we can > say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had an > equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion that when > you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette > and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already all > equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list operates > that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. > > Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go and > to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about deleting > a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal promotion > stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't necessarily read > what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is doing > and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if > you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young adults, > it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather interested > parties. > > There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I > believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say, > don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide by > this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently respond > negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate emails on > list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue the > inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly repeat > offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in their > emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those people > off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an eye on > for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method for > doing so. > > On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I agree with everything that's been said so far. >> >> I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >> often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >> 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >> registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >> once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be >> aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they have >> caused trouble on here. >> Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they >> submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >> guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >> would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >> accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >> chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on >> "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. >> >> About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >> discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >> insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >> discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >> talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts >> to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. >> >> These are just my thoughts. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Sami. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l > To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >> if >> folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A single >> off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge >> thread >> of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding >> someone >> who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a >> post >> bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so >> they >> can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you >> aren't >> sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the >> moderators >> privately. These are just my suggestions. >> Arielle >> >> On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l >> wrote: >> Mary and all, >> >> This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been >> brought up. >> >> People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >> opportunity to be >> inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >> which suspended >> or banned people from list for violations. >> >> I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >> and I never >> did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >> are not >> relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >> have been >> banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have >> the chance >> to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >> moderators. >> >> Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >> enough that they >> don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. >> >> One much example are the periodic announcements from David about >> internet >> radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >> the >> announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >> no stress. I'm >> sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >> member's >> self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. >> >> I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about >> others, or >> messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >> sensitive topics. >> >> We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >> stay on topic, >> and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. >> >> Antonio >> >> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> > wrote: >> >> Good evening all, >> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >> lack >> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >> the >> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >> be a >> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >> parents >> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >> means that >> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >> anyone, >> conducts a Google search. >> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >> which >> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >> contact them >> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >> forth, >> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >> others. >> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >> list >> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >> about >> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >> I'm >> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >> polite and >> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >> strong >> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >> email >> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> >> Thank you, >> Sincerely, >> Your list moderator, >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> them >> feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >> izon.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > -- Kaiti From tyler at tysdomain.com Sat Aug 16 04:21:45 2014 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: <0NAD0022748XP9B0@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <53EEDC59.5000200@tysdomain.com> Hello: I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy asked her bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not appropriate, but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't want. Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks like it's a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any girl with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, then they say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them. I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to go, just send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, just send it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence calls, classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going to be ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who already acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules is just forcing them to go through another step to register and they can still say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a bit of extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this option. You do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome letters, at which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them can be the same results as not following the rules you have to click a button to agree, whatever that may be. I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats on and off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just block them or hit delete on their messages. On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: > It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of > people taking advantage of the fact that other list members can't > necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted > attention off-list. I know policing such matters is impractical, but > it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know > practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back on > Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a connection or > in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random emails > to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think people > would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior > happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if things like > this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of people > on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which says > something about how permission should be gained before sending a > messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend someone > on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to be > friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette guidelines, > there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this behavior is > due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and the > person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to properly > correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. > > The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done without > severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few years > I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to respond to > something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they were > too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought they > would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed things > like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want to > stifle any of these things and have actually made some good friends > through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the NABS > list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when some > random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on different > social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check or > didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really didn't > need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either not > checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations because > I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, or am > not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal information. I > think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and especially > puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since this > is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you alone > gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for dealing > with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails just keep > coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. > > On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet etiquette, >> but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already will >> care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just tells me >> that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, calling >> individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the >> negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is >> probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list moderators >> like Mary and Dave. >> >> I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it would >> be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I like the >> idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers complete >> the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't Agree >> buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I think >> that would make it much harder for people to just say they were >> ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. >> Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we can >> say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had an >> equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion that when >> you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette >> and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already all >> equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list operates >> that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. >> >> Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go and >> to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about deleting >> a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal promotion >> stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't necessarily read >> what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is doing >> and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if >> you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young adults, >> it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather interested >> parties. >> >> There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I >> believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say, >> don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide by >> this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently respond >> negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate emails on >> list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue the >> inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly repeat >> offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in their >> emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those people >> off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an eye on >> for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method for >> doing so. >> >> On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I agree with everything that's been said so far. >>> >>> I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >>> often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >>> 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >>> registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >>> once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be >>> aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they have >>> caused trouble on here. >>> Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they >>> submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >>> guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >>> would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >>> accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >>> chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on >>> "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. >>> >>> About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >>> discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >>> insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >>> discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >>> talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts >>> to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. >>> >>> These are just my thoughts. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Sami. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >> To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >>> >>> I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >>> if >>> folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A single >>> off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge >>> thread >>> of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding >>> someone >>> who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a >>> post >>> bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so >>> they >>> can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you >>> aren't >>> sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the >>> moderators >>> privately. These are just my suggestions. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> Mary and all, >>> >>> This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been >>> brought up. >>> >>> People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >>> opportunity to be >>> inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >>> which suspended >>> or banned people from list for violations. >>> >>> I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >>> and I never >>> did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >>> are not >>> relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >>> have been >>> banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have >>> the chance >>> to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >>> moderators. >>> >>> Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >>> enough that they >>> don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. >>> >>> One much example are the periodic announcements from David about >>> internet >>> radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >>> the >>> announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >>> no stress. I'm >>> sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >>> member's >>> self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. >>> >>> I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about >>> others, or >>> messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >>> sensitive topics. >>> >>> We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >>> stay on topic, >>> and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. >>> >>> Antonio >>> >>> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Good evening all, >>> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >>> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >>> lack >>> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >>> the >>> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >>> be a >>> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >>> parents >>> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >>> means that >>> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >>> anyone, >>> conducts a Google search. >>> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >>> which >>> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >>> contact them >>> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >>> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >>> forth, >>> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >>> others. >>> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >>> list >>> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >>> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >>> about >>> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >>> I'm >>> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >>> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >>> polite and >>> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >>> strong >>> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >>> email >>> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Sincerely, >>> Your list moderator, >>> >>> -- >>> Mary Fernandez >>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >>> them >>> feel." >>> -- >>> Maya Angelou >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >>> izon.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From kmaent1 at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 15:19:39 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 11:19:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners Message-ID: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys doing things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It is our responsibility as members of this list and the responsibility of the moderators to ensure that this is a safe place where people can post without being harassed. Maybe we can't get rid of this sort of thing completely, but that's no reason to tolerate this when it's brought to our attention. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" , National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet etiquette, but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already will care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just tells me that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, calling individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list moderators like Mary and Dave. I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it would be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I like the idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers complete the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't Agree buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I think that would make it much harder for people to just say they were ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we can say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had an equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion that when you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already all equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list operates that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go and to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about deleting a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal promotion stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't necessarily read what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is doing and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young adults, it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather interested parties. There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say, don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide by this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently respond negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate emails on list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue the inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly repeat offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in their emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those people off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an eye on for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method for doing so. On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: Hi all, I agree with everything that's been said so far. I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they have caused trouble on here. Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of discussions are fine as long as people are not personally insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. These are just my thoughts. Thanks, Sami. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list Hello list: My name is Yadiel Sotomayor. I am a student at the University of Puerto Rico. The reason why I am writing, is to ask the following. I am looking for a 32 cell, or grater, braille display for sale. Preferably bluetooth enabled. I do not care if it is new. I just want it to work. If you have any Braille display that fills the previous criterias, please send me an email off list at: yadosotomayor at gmail.com with your offers. I can do pay-pal, checks or any other payment option. Thanks for your help. Yadiel J. Sotomayor Treasurer, National Federation of the Blind of Puerto Rico La National Federation of the Blind sabe que la ceguera no es la característica que define tu futuro o a ti. Todos los días elevamos las expectativas de los ciegos, porque las bajas expectativas crean obstáculos entre los ciegos y su futuro. Puedes vivir la vida que queres, la ceguera no te lo impide. From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 16:09:35 2014 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:09:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Also, just because the guy harassed Helga off-list and she replied on-list, that doesn't take him out of the wrong or shift the blame for what he did onto her. That was precisely why I expressed a desire to have something put in place to avoid off-list issues like that, because it is a problem. For all I know guys might not get the creepy emails from repeat offenders and might not even have realized it was happening, but that doesn't mean that since it isn't a problem for you, it isn't a problem for others. Delete what you don't want to see is all well and good for things like self promos which are harmless, but when they cross a line we need to do something about them. Same for blocking. Individuals can block the creepy email senders all they want, but the person behind the issue isn't going to stop finding new people to try sending stuff to unless there are consequences for them. Furthermore, this is a perfect example of handling disagreement. If you don't think this is an issue that needs policing or don't like the suggestions others have proffered, you can choose whether or not to get involved in the thread. You are certainly free to have your oppinions, but I took your last message as a negative slam of sorts against people who feel there are major issues with conduct on the list, and the suggestions they are just kicking around to see what might come of them. Perhaps I read it the wrong way since we're working through text alone here, but that's just the vibe I got. Case and point why such an internet etiquette forum or something might be useful, as tone in text verses spoken word was one of the proposed topics for such a talk. Maybe it would only attract those who are already cognicent of courtesy on the list, but obviously both of us cared enough to jump in on this thread and got very different ideas of how the previous posts were intended to sound. On 8/16/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: > I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a > sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys > doing things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It > is our responsibility as members of this list and the > responsibility of the moderators to ensure that this is a safe > place where people can post without being harassed. Maybe we > can't get rid of this sort of thing completely, but that's no > reason to tolerate this when it's brought to our attention. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" To: Kaiti Shelton , National > Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > > Hello: > I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy > asked her > bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not > appropriate, > but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't > want. > > Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks > like it's > a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any > girl > with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, > then they > say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets > invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them. > > I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to > go, just > send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, > just send > it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence > calls, > classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going > to be > ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who > already > acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules > is just > forcing them to go through another step to register and they can > still > say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a > bit of > extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this > option. You > do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome > letters, at > which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them > can be > the same results as not following the rules you have to click a > button > to agree, whatever that may be. > > I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats > on and > off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just > block them > or hit delete on their messages. > On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: > It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of > people taking advantage of the fact that other list members > can't > necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted > attention off-list. I know policing such matters is > impractical, but > it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know > practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back > on > Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a > connection or > in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random > emails > to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think > people > would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior > happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if > things like > this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of > people > on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which > says > something about how permission should be gained before sending a > messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend > someone > on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to > be > friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette > guidelines, > there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this > behavior is > due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and > the > person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to > properly > correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. > > The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done > without > severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few > years > I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to > respond to > something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they > were > too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought > they > would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed > things > like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want > to > stifle any of these things and have actually made some good > friends > through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the > NABS > list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when > some > random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on > different > social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check > or > didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really > didn't > need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either > not > checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations > because > I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, > or am > not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal > information. I > think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and > especially > puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since > this > is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you > alone > gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for > dealing > with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails > just keep > coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. > > On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet > etiquette, > but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already > will > care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just > tells me > that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, > calling > individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the > negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this > thread is > probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list > moderators > like Mary and Dave. > > I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it > would > be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I > like the > idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers > complete > the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't > Agree > buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I > think > that would make it much harder for people to just say they were > ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. > Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we > can > say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had > an > equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion > that when > you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette > and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already > all > equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list > operates > that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. > > Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread > go and > to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about > deleting > a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal > promotion > stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't > necessarily read > what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is > doing > and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if > you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young > adults, > it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather > interested > parties. > > There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I > believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to > say, > don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and > abide by > this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently > respond > negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate > emails on > list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue > the > inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly > repeat > offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in > their > emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those > people > off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an > eye on > for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method > for > doing so. > > On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > > I agree with everything that's been said so far. > > I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more > often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every > 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've > registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted > once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be > aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they > have > caused trouble on here. > Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after > they > submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the > guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person > would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they > accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second > chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click > on > "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. > > About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of > discussions are fine as long as people are not personally > insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a > discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and > talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts > to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. > > These are just my thoughts. > > Thanks, > > Sami. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National > Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > > I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice > if > folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A > single > off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge > thread > of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding > someone > who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a > post > bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so > they > can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you > aren't > sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the > moderators > privately. These are just my suggestions. > Arielle > > On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l wrote: > Mary and all, > > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has > been > brought up. > > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the > opportunity to be > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines > which suspended > or banned people from list for violations. > > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, > and I never > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and > are not > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could > have been > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer > have > the chance > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the > moderators. > > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent > enough that they > don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. > > One much example are the periodic announcements from David > about > internet > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide > the > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with > no stress. I'm > sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a > member's > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. > > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information > about > others, or > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and > sensitive topics. > > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, > stay on topic, > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. > > Antonio > > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l > wrote: > > Good evening all, > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, > or > lack > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on > the > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed > to > be a > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, > parents > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which > means that > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, > anyone, > conducts a Google search. > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, > which > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you > contact them > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to > that > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back > and > forth, > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards > others. > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication > among > list > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are > the > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion > about > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, > but > I'm > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and > the > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be > polite and > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have > strong > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my > email > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. > > Thank you, > Sincerely, > Your list moderator, > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people > will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made > them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver > izon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a > fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma > il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Aug 16 16:07:50 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:07:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Good morning, It is NEVER the role, in my opinion, of the moderators to police people's dialogue. Just deal with what you perceive as a threat on your own via the delete key that is, unless you enjoy the attention? Car Hello: >I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy asked her >bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not appropriate, >but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't want. > >Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks like it's >a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any girl >with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, then they >say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets >invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them. > >I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to go, just >send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, just send >it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence calls, >classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going to be >ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who already >acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules is just >forcing them to go through another step to register and they can still >say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a bit of >extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this option. You >do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome letters, at >which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them can be >the same results as not following the rules you have to click a button >to agree, whatever that may be. > >I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats on and >off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just block them >or hit delete on their messages. >On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: >It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of >people taking advantage of the fact that other list members can't >necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted >attention off-list. I know policing such matters is impractical, but >it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know >practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back on >Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a connection or >in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random emails >to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think people >would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior >happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if things like >this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of people >on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which says >something about how permission should be gained before sending a >messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend someone >on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to be >friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette guidelines, >there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this behavior is >due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and the >person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to properly >correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. > >The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done without >severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few years >I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to respond to >something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they were >too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought they >would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed things >like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want to >stifle any of these things and have actually made some good friends >through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the NABS >list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when some >random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on different >social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check or >didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really didn't >need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either not >checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations because >I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, or am >not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal information. I >think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and especially >puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since this >is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you alone >gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for dealing >with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails just keep >coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. > >On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet etiquette, >but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already will >care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just tells me >that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, calling >individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the >negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is >probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list moderators >like Mary and Dave. > >I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it would >be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I like the >idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers complete >the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't Agree >buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I think >that would make it much harder for people to just say they were >ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. >Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we can >say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had an >equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion that when >you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette >and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already all >equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list operates >that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. > >Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go and >to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about deleting >a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal promotion >stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't necessarily read >what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is doing >and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if >you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young adults, >it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather interested >parties. > >There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I >believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say, >don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide by >this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently respond >negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate emails on >list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue the >inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly repeat >offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in their >emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those people >off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an eye on >for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method for >doing so. > >On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >Hi all, > >I agree with everything that's been said so far. > >I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be >aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they have >caused trouble on here. >Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they >submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on >"agree," then their subscription will not be taken. > >About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts >to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. > >These are just my thoughts. > >Thanks, > >Sami. > > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > >I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >if >folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A single >off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge >thread >of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding >someone >who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a >post >bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so >they >can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you >aren't >sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the >moderators >privately. These are just my suggestions. >Arielle > >On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l wrote: > Mary and all, > > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been >brought up. > > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >opportunity to be > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >which suspended > or banned people from list for violations. > > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >and I never > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >are not > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >have been > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have >the chance > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >moderators. > > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >enough that they > don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. > > One much example are the periodic announcements from David about >internet > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >the > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >no stress. I'm > sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >member's > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. > > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about >others, or > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >sensitive topics. > > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >stay on topic, > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. > > Antonio > > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l > wrote: > > Good evening all, > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >lack > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >the > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >be a > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >parents > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >means that > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >anyone, > conducts a Google search. > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >which > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >contact them > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >forth, > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >others. > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >list > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >about > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >I'm > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >polite and > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >strong > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >email > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. > > Thank you, > Sincerely, > Your list moderator, > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for > nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for > nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >mail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >izon.net > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >t104%40gmail.com > > >-- >Kaiti > > > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >he that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >il.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From gpaikens at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 17:03:39 2014 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 13:03:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Universities with a Graduate Program for Special Education of the Blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37BD8744-DC81-43D3-9FD2-40312D4DBF46@gmail.com> Hi Jewel, In the southeast there is the program at Vanderbilt University and at Florida State University. Both are great programs that have some good funding options. I attended Vanderbilt and know several people that came through the FSU program. I believe the University of Alabama at Birmingham has a program but I don’t know anything about it. Aside from the other programs mentioned by others, there are programs at Missouri State, Western Michigan, and University of Northern Colorado. Some of these have larger online components than others. If you have any questions about my experiences with the program at Vanderbilt or living in Nashville , please feel free to contact me on or off list. Best, Greg On Aug 12, 2014, at 7:46 PM, Jewel via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I'm researching schools that have a graduate program for special > education of the glind. I know about Louisiana Tech University, North > Carolina Central University, Northern Illinois University, and have > seen mention of possibly the University of Arizona at Tucson. Does > anyone know any others? The first three I mentioned, I have ruled out > for personal reasons that I won't go into here. > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From robin-melvin at comcast.net Sat Aug 16 17:23:28 2014 From: robin-melvin at comcast.net (Robin) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 10:23:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20140816101349.0d63e268@comcast.net> I suggest people, who have been contacted OffList, and were offended by what they perceived as "inappropriate" send and/or forward those EMAILS to the NABS List Moderator(s), and they can take whatever action they deem appropriate. Personally, I think there is a distinction between people, who contact others OffList, with what is perceived as "inappropriate" and those who contact people OffList with "invitations" to FaceBook/Linkedin-Twitter or some other type of Social Networking site. This is only my humble opinion. I also suggest ideas of "policing" the NABS List be taken OffList as well, and when the NABS List Moderator(s) have made their decision on how to rectify this situation so as not to have it occur in the future or reduce the likelihood that it will occur in the future, they then send their decision/recommendation to the NABS List. At 09:09 AM 8/16/2014, you wrote: >Also, just because the guy harassed Helga off-list and she replied >on-list, that doesn't take him out of the wrong or shift the blame for >what he did onto her. That was precisely why I expressed a desire to >have something put in place to avoid off-list issues like that, >because it is a problem. For all I know guys might not get the creepy >emails from repeat offenders and might not even have realized it was >happening, but that doesn't mean that since it isn't a problem for >you, it isn't a problem for others. Delete what you don't want to see >is all well and good for things like self promos which are harmless, >but when they cross a line we need to do something about them. Same >for blocking. Individuals can block the creepy email senders all they >want, but the person behind the issue isn't going to stop finding new >people to try sending stuff to unless there are consequences for them. > >Furthermore, this is a perfect example of handling disagreement. If >you don't think this is an issue that needs policing or don't like the >suggestions others have proffered, you can choose whether or not to >get involved in the thread. You are certainly free to have your >oppinions, but I took your last message as a negative slam of sorts >against people who feel there are major issues with conduct on the >list, and the suggestions they are just kicking around to see what >might come of them. Perhaps I read it the wrong way since we're >working through text alone here, but that's just the vibe I got. Case >and point why such an internet etiquette forum or something might be >useful, as tone in text verses spoken word was one of the proposed >topics for such a talk. Maybe it would only attract those who are >already cognicent of courtesy on the list, but obviously both of us >cared enough to jump in on this thread and got very different ideas of >how the previous posts were intended to sound. > >On 8/16/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: > > I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a > > sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys > > doing things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It > > is our responsibility as members of this list and the > > responsibility of the moderators to ensure that this is a safe > > place where people can post without being harassed. Maybe we > > can't get rid of this sort of thing completely, but that's no > > reason to tolerate this when it's brought to our attention. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" > To: Kaiti Shelton , National > > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > > > > Hello: > > I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy > > asked her > > bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not > > appropriate, > > but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't > > want. > > > > Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks > > like it's > > a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any > > girl > > with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, > > then they > > say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets > > invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them. > > > > I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to > > go, just > > send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, > > just send > > it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence > > calls, > > classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going > > to be > > ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who > > already > > acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules > > is just > > forcing them to go through another step to register and they can > > still > > say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a > > bit of > > extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this > > option. You > > do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome > > letters, at > > which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them > > can be > > the same results as not following the rules you have to click a > > button > > to agree, whatever that may be. > > > > I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats > > on and > > off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just > > block them > > or hit delete on their messages. > > On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: > > It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of > > people taking advantage of the fact that other list members > > can't > > necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted > > attention off-list. I know policing such matters is > > impractical, but > > it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know > > practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back > > on > > Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a > > connection or > > in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random > > emails > > to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think > > people > > would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior > > happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if > > things like > > this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of > > people > > on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which > > says > > something about how permission should be gained before sending a > > messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend > > someone > > on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to > > be > > friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette > > guidelines, > > there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this > > behavior is > > due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and > > the > > person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to > > properly > > correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. > > > > The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done > > without > > severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few > > years > > I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to > > respond to > > something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they > > were > > too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought > > they > > would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed > > things > > like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want > > to > > stifle any of these things and have actually made some good > > friends > > through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the > > NABS > > list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when > > some > > random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on > > different > > social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check > > or > > didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really > > didn't > > need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either > > not > > checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations > > because > > I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, > > or am > > not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal > > information. I > > think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and > > especially > > puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since > > this > > is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you > > alone > > gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for > > dealing > > with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails > > just keep > > coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. > > > > On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > > I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet > > etiquette, > > but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already > > will > > care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just > > tells me > > that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, > > calling > > individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the > > negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this > > thread is > > probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list > > moderators > > like Mary and Dave. > > > > I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it > > would > > be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I > > like the > > idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers > > complete > > the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't > > Agree > > buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I > > think > > that would make it much harder for people to just say they were > > ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. > > Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we > > can > > say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had > > an > > equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion > > that when > > you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette > > and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already > > all > > equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list > > operates > > that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. > > > > Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread > > go and > > to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about > > deleting > > a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal > > promotion > > stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't > > necessarily read > > what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is > > doing > > and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if > > you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young > > adults, > > it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather > > interested > > parties. > > > > There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I > > believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to > > say, > > don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and > > abide by > > this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently > > respond > > negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate > > emails on > > list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue > > the > > inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly > > repeat > > offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in > > their > > emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those > > people > > off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an > > eye on > > for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method > > for > > doing so. > > > > On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I agree with everything that's been said so far. > > > > I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more > > often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every > > 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've > > registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted > > once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be > > aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they > > have > > caused trouble on here. > > Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after > > they > > submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the > > guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person > > would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they > > accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second > > chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click > > on > > "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. > > > > About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of > > discussions are fine as long as people are not personally > > insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a > > discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and > > talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts > > to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. > > > > These are just my thoughts. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sami. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l > To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National > > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > > > > I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice > > if > > folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A > > single > > off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge > > thread > > of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding > > someone > > who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a > > post > > bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so > > they > > can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you > > aren't > > sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the > > moderators > > privately. These are just my suggestions. > > Arielle > > > > On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l > wrote: > > Mary and all, > > > > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has > > been > > brought up. > > > > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the > > opportunity to be > > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines > > which suspended > > or banned people from list for violations. > > > > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, > > and I never > > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and > > are not > > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could > > have been > > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer > > have > > the chance > > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the > > moderators. > > > > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent > > enough that they > > don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. > > > > One much example are the periodic announcements from David > > about > > internet > > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide > > the > > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with > > no stress. I'm > > sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a > > member's > > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. > > > > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information > > about > > others, or > > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and > > sensitive topics. > > > > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, > > stay on topic, > > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. > > > > Antonio > > > > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l > > > wrote: > > > > Good evening all, > > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. > > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, > > or > > lack > > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on > > the > > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed > > to > > be a > > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, > > parents > > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which > > means that > > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, > > anyone, > > conducts a Google search. > > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, > > which > > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you > > contact them > > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to > > that > > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back > > and > > forth, > > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards > > others. > > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication > > among > > list > > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are > > the > > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion > > about > > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, > > but > > I'm > > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and > > the > > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be > > polite and > > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have > > strong > > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my > > email > > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. > > > > Thank you, > > Sincerely, > > Your list moderator, > > > > -- > > Mary Fernandez > > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people > > will > > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made > > them > > feel." > > -- > > Maya Angelou > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > > 0gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > > mail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info > > for nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver > > izon.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > > t104%40gmail.com > > > > > > -- > > Kaiti > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Take care, > > Ty > > http://tds-solutions.net > > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a > > fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma > > il.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > > >-- >Kaiti > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Aug 16 17:33:13 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 10:33:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20140816101349.0d63e268@comcast.net> References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20140816101349.0d63e268@comcast.net> Message-ID: Good morning, my blind, brother Robin, I agree! We ought to simply Send self-serving blather to the moderators, or to the one who began this discussion in the first place, not to the rest of us! Let's go, almighty moderators... C'mon! for today, Car 10:23 AM 8/16/2014, Robin via nabs-l wrote: >I suggest people, who have been contacted OffList, and were offended >by what they perceived as "inappropriate" send and/or forward those >EMAILS to the NABS List Moderator(s), and they can take whatever >action they deem appropriate. > >Personally, I think there is a distinction between people, who >contact others OffList, with what is perceived as "inappropriate" >and those who contact people OffList with "invitations" to >FaceBook/Linkedin-Twitter or some other type of Social Networking >site. This is only my humble opinion. > >I also suggest ideas of "policing" the NABS List be taken OffList as >well, and when the NABS List Moderator(s) have made their decision >on how to rectify this situation so as not to have it occur in the >future or reduce the likelihood that it will occur in the future, >they then send their decision/recommendation to the NABS List. > >At 09:09 AM 8/16/2014, you wrote: >>Also, just because the guy harassed Helga off-list and she replied >>on-list, that doesn't take him out of the wrong or shift the blame for >>what he did onto her. That was precisely why I expressed a desire to >>have something put in place to avoid off-list issues like that, >>because it is a problem. For all I know guys might not get the creepy >>emails from repeat offenders and might not even have realized it was >>happening, but that doesn't mean that since it isn't a problem for >>you, it isn't a problem for others. Delete what you don't want to see >>is all well and good for things like self promos which are harmless, >>but when they cross a line we need to do something about them. Same >>for blocking. Individuals can block the creepy email senders all they >>want, but the person behind the issue isn't going to stop finding new >>people to try sending stuff to unless there are consequences for them. >> >>Furthermore, this is a perfect example of handling disagreement. If >>you don't think this is an issue that needs policing or don't like the >>suggestions others have proffered, you can choose whether or not to >>get involved in the thread. You are certainly free to have your >>oppinions, but I took your last message as a negative slam of sorts >>against people who feel there are major issues with conduct on the >>list, and the suggestions they are just kicking around to see what >>might come of them. Perhaps I read it the wrong way since we're >>working through text alone here, but that's just the vibe I got. Case >>and point why such an internet etiquette forum or something might be >>useful, as tone in text verses spoken word was one of the proposed >>topics for such a talk. Maybe it would only attract those who are >>already cognicent of courtesy on the list, but obviously both of us >>cared enough to jump in on this thread and got very different ideas of >>how the previous posts were intended to sound. >> >>On 8/16/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >> > I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a >> > sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys >> > doing things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It >> > is our responsibility as members of this list and the >> > responsibility of the moderators to ensure that this is a safe >> > place where people can post without being harassed. Maybe we >> > can't get rid of this sort of thing completely, but that's no >> > reason to tolerate this when it's brought to our attention. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" > > To: Kaiti Shelton , National >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Date sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> > >> > Hello: >> > I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy >> > asked her >> > bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not >> > appropriate, >> > but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't >> > want. >> > >> > Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks >> > like it's >> > a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any >> > girl >> > with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, >> > then they >> > say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets >> > invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them. >> > >> > I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to >> > go, just >> > send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, >> > just send >> > it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence >> > calls, >> > classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going >> > to be >> > ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who >> > already >> > acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules >> > is just >> > forcing them to go through another step to register and they can >> > still >> > say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a >> > bit of >> > extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this >> > option. You >> > do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome >> > letters, at >> > which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them >> > can be >> > the same results as not following the rules you have to click a >> > button >> > to agree, whatever that may be. >> > >> > I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats >> > on and >> > off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just >> > block them >> > or hit delete on their messages. >> > On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: >> > It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of >> > people taking advantage of the fact that other list members >> > can't >> > necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted >> > attention off-list. I know policing such matters is >> > impractical, but >> > it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know >> > practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back >> > on >> > Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a >> > connection or >> > in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random >> > emails >> > to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think >> > people >> > would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior >> > happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if >> > things like >> > this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of >> > people >> > on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which >> > says >> > something about how permission should be gained before sending a >> > messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend >> > someone >> > on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to >> > be >> > friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette >> > guidelines, >> > there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this >> > behavior is >> > due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and >> > the >> > person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to >> > properly >> > correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. >> > >> > The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done >> > without >> > severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few >> > years >> > I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to >> > respond to >> > something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they >> > were >> > too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought >> > they >> > would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed >> > things >> > like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want >> > to >> > stifle any of these things and have actually made some good >> > friends >> > through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the >> > NABS >> > list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when >> > some >> > random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on >> > different >> > social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check >> > or >> > didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really >> > didn't >> > need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either >> > not >> > checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations >> > because >> > I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, >> > or am >> > not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal >> > information. I >> > think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and >> > especially >> > puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since >> > this >> > is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you >> > alone >> > gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for >> > dealing >> > with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails >> > just keep >> > coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. >> > >> > On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> > I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet >> > etiquette, >> > but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already >> > will >> > care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just >> > tells me >> > that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, >> > calling >> > individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the >> > negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this >> > thread is >> > probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list >> > moderators >> > like Mary and Dave. >> > >> > I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it >> > would >> > be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I >> > like the >> > idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers >> > complete >> > the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't >> > Agree >> > buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I >> > think >> > that would make it much harder for people to just say they were >> > ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. >> > Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we >> > can >> > say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had >> > an >> > equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion >> > that when >> > you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette >> > and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already >> > all >> > equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list >> > operates >> > that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. >> > >> > Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread >> > go and >> > to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about >> > deleting >> > a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal >> > promotion >> > stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't >> > necessarily read >> > what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is >> > doing >> > and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if >> > you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young >> > adults, >> > it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather >> > interested >> > parties. >> > >> > There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I >> > believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to >> > say, >> > don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and >> > abide by >> > this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently >> > respond >> > negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate >> > emails on >> > list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue >> > the >> > inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly >> > repeat >> > offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in >> > their >> > emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those >> > people >> > off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an >> > eye on >> > for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method >> > for >> > doing so. >> > >> > On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > >> > I agree with everything that's been said so far. >> > >> > I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >> > often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >> > 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >> > registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >> > once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be >> > aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they >> > have >> > caused trouble on here. >> > Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after >> > they >> > submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >> > guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >> > would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >> > accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >> > chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click >> > on >> > "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. >> > >> > About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >> > discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >> > insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >> > discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >> > talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts >> > to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. >> > >> > These are just my thoughts. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Sami. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l > > To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> > >> > I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >> > if >> > folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A >> > single >> > off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge >> > thread >> > of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding >> > someone >> > who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a >> > post >> > bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so >> > they >> > can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you >> > aren't >> > sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the >> > moderators >> > privately. These are just my suggestions. >> > Arielle >> > >> > On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l > > wrote: >> > Mary and all, >> > >> > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has >> > been >> > brought up. >> > >> > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >> > opportunity to be >> > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >> > which suspended >> > or banned people from list for violations. >> > >> > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >> > and I never >> > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >> > are not >> > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >> > have been >> > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer >> > have >> > the chance >> > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >> > moderators. >> > >> > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >> > enough that they >> > don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. >> > >> > One much example are the periodic announcements from David >> > about >> > internet >> > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >> > the >> > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >> > no stress. I'm >> > sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >> > member's >> > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. >> > >> > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information >> > about >> > others, or >> > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >> > sensitive topics. >> > >> > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >> > stay on topic, >> > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. >> > >> > Antonio >> > >> > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> > > > wrote: >> > >> > Good evening all, >> > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, >> > or >> > lack >> > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >> > the >> > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed >> > to >> > be a >> > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >> > parents >> > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >> > means that >> > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >> > anyone, >> > conducts a Google search. >> > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >> > which >> > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >> > contact them >> > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to >> > that >> > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back >> > and >> > forth, >> > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >> > others. >> > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication >> > among >> > list >> > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are >> > the >> > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >> > about >> > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, >> > but >> > I'm >> > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and >> > the >> > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >> > polite and >> > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >> > strong >> > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >> > email >> > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> > >> > Thank you, >> > Sincerely, >> > Your list moderator, >> > >> > -- >> > Mary Fernandez >> > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people >> > will >> > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> > them >> > feel." >> > -- >> > Maya Angelou >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >> > 0gmail.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> > mail.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info >> > for nabs-l: >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >> > izon.net >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> > t104%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Kaiti >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Take care, >> > Ty >> > http://tds-solutions.net >> > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >> > fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >> > il.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >>-- >>Kaiti >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 17:45:58 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 10:45:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20140816101349.0d63e268@comcast.net> References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20140816101349.0d63e268@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi all, I want to start by summarizing how the list moderators and administrator currently handle things. If somebody is being disrespectful or posting content that's inappropriate for the list, they are typically warned first. If the behavior continues, the individual may be placed on "moderated status" in which Dave Andrews or another list admin must approve everything that person posts before it appears on list. This is usually done only for a month or two as it creates a huge burden of work for the admins. In extreme cases, offending individuals are banned from the list. I know Dave does not like to do this often, and if somebody is very determined, it is not hard to create a new email address and re-join. So there is only so much the moderators can do and there is really very little that moderators can do to stop off-list communications. I think that whenever someone joins a public email list, they incur a risk of being sent unsolicited emails off-list. That is just a risk we all take. It is important to take precautions so that email harassment, which is relatively harmless, doesn't turn into something more serious. For example, it is wise to avoid disclosing your phone number or any secure information, like your birthdate, on list or to anyone you don't know and feel comfortable with. This is especially important for list members under 18. But honestly, the best defense against annoying or harassing emails is just to ask the person to stop and then delete or ignore any further communications. In my 15 years of listserv activity, I've received my fair share of unwanted emails and Facebook flirtations, and simply ignoring them was always an adequate solution. Best, Arielle On 8/16/14, Robin via nabs-l wrote: > I suggest people, who have been contacted OffList, and were offended > by what they perceived as "inappropriate" send and/or forward those > EMAILS to the NABS List Moderator(s), and they can take whatever > action they deem appropriate. > > Personally, I think there is a distinction between people, who > contact others OffList, with what is perceived as "inappropriate" and > those who contact people OffList with "invitations" to > FaceBook/Linkedin-Twitter or some other type of Social Networking > site. This is only my humble opinion. > > I also suggest ideas of "policing" the NABS List be taken OffList as > well, and when the NABS List Moderator(s) have made their decision on > how to rectify this situation so as not to have it occur in the > future or reduce the likelihood that it will occur in the future, > they then send their decision/recommendation to the NABS List. > > At 09:09 AM 8/16/2014, you wrote: >>Also, just because the guy harassed Helga off-list and she replied >>on-list, that doesn't take him out of the wrong or shift the blame for >>what he did onto her. That was precisely why I expressed a desire to >>have something put in place to avoid off-list issues like that, >>because it is a problem. For all I know guys might not get the creepy >>emails from repeat offenders and might not even have realized it was >>happening, but that doesn't mean that since it isn't a problem for >>you, it isn't a problem for others. Delete what you don't want to see >>is all well and good for things like self promos which are harmless, >>but when they cross a line we need to do something about them. Same >>for blocking. Individuals can block the creepy email senders all they >>want, but the person behind the issue isn't going to stop finding new >>people to try sending stuff to unless there are consequences for them. >> >>Furthermore, this is a perfect example of handling disagreement. If >>you don't think this is an issue that needs policing or don't like the >>suggestions others have proffered, you can choose whether or not to >>get involved in the thread. You are certainly free to have your >>oppinions, but I took your last message as a negative slam of sorts >>against people who feel there are major issues with conduct on the >>list, and the suggestions they are just kicking around to see what >>might come of them. Perhaps I read it the wrong way since we're >>working through text alone here, but that's just the vibe I got. Case >>and point why such an internet etiquette forum or something might be >>useful, as tone in text verses spoken word was one of the proposed >>topics for such a talk. Maybe it would only attract those who are >>already cognicent of courtesy on the list, but obviously both of us >>cared enough to jump in on this thread and got very different ideas of >>how the previous posts were intended to sound. >> >>On 8/16/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >> > I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a >> > sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys >> > doing things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It >> > is our responsibility as members of this list and the >> > responsibility of the moderators to ensure that this is a safe >> > place where people can post without being harassed. Maybe we >> > can't get rid of this sort of thing completely, but that's no >> > reason to tolerate this when it's brought to our attention. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" > > To: Kaiti Shelton , National >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Date sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> > >> > Hello: >> > I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy >> > asked her >> > bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not >> > appropriate, >> > but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't >> > want. >> > >> > Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks >> > like it's >> > a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any >> > girl >> > with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, >> > then they >> > say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets >> > invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them. >> > >> > I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to >> > go, just >> > send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, >> > just send >> > it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence >> > calls, >> > classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going >> > to be >> > ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who >> > already >> > acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules >> > is just >> > forcing them to go through another step to register and they can >> > still >> > say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a >> > bit of >> > extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this >> > option. You >> > do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome >> > letters, at >> > which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them >> > can be >> > the same results as not following the rules you have to click a >> > button >> > to agree, whatever that may be. >> > >> > I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats >> > on and >> > off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just >> > block them >> > or hit delete on their messages. >> > On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: >> > It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of >> > people taking advantage of the fact that other list members >> > can't >> > necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted >> > attention off-list. I know policing such matters is >> > impractical, but >> > it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know >> > practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back >> > on >> > Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a >> > connection or >> > in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random >> > emails >> > to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think >> > people >> > would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior >> > happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if >> > things like >> > this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of >> > people >> > on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which >> > says >> > something about how permission should be gained before sending a >> > messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend >> > someone >> > on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to >> > be >> > friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette >> > guidelines, >> > there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this >> > behavior is >> > due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and >> > the >> > person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to >> > properly >> > correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. >> > >> > The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done >> > without >> > severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few >> > years >> > I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to >> > respond to >> > something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they >> > were >> > too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought >> > they >> > would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed >> > things >> > like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want >> > to >> > stifle any of these things and have actually made some good >> > friends >> > through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the >> > NABS >> > list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when >> > some >> > random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on >> > different >> > social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check >> > or >> > didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really >> > didn't >> > need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either >> > not >> > checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations >> > because >> > I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, >> > or am >> > not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal >> > information. I >> > think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and >> > especially >> > puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since >> > this >> > is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you >> > alone >> > gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for >> > dealing >> > with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails >> > just keep >> > coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. >> > >> > On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> > I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet >> > etiquette, >> > but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already >> > will >> > care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just >> > tells me >> > that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, >> > calling >> > individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the >> > negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this >> > thread is >> > probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list >> > moderators >> > like Mary and Dave. >> > >> > I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it >> > would >> > be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I >> > like the >> > idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers >> > complete >> > the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't >> > Agree >> > buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I >> > think >> > that would make it much harder for people to just say they were >> > ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. >> > Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we >> > can >> > say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had >> > an >> > equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion >> > that when >> > you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette >> > and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already >> > all >> > equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list >> > operates >> > that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. >> > >> > Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread >> > go and >> > to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about >> > deleting >> > a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal >> > promotion >> > stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't >> > necessarily read >> > what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is >> > doing >> > and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if >> > you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young >> > adults, >> > it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather >> > interested >> > parties. >> > >> > There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I >> > believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to >> > say, >> > don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and >> > abide by >> > this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently >> > respond >> > negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate >> > emails on >> > list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue >> > the >> > inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly >> > repeat >> > offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in >> > their >> > emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those >> > people >> > off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an >> > eye on >> > for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method >> > for >> > doing so. >> > >> > On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > >> > I agree with everything that's been said so far. >> > >> > I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >> > often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >> > 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >> > registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >> > once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be >> > aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they >> > have >> > caused trouble on here. >> > Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after >> > they >> > submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >> > guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >> > would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >> > accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >> > chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click >> > on >> > "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. >> > >> > About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >> > discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >> > insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >> > discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >> > talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts >> > to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. >> > >> > These are just my thoughts. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Sami. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l > > To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> > >> > I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >> > if >> > folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A >> > single >> > off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge >> > thread >> > of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding >> > someone >> > who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a >> > post >> > bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so >> > they >> > can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you >> > aren't >> > sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the >> > moderators >> > privately. These are just my suggestions. >> > Arielle >> > >> > On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l > > wrote: >> > Mary and all, >> > >> > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has >> > been >> > brought up. >> > >> > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >> > opportunity to be >> > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >> > which suspended >> > or banned people from list for violations. >> > >> > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >> > and I never >> > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >> > are not >> > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >> > have been >> > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer >> > have >> > the chance >> > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >> > moderators. >> > >> > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >> > enough that they >> > don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. >> > >> > One much example are the periodic announcements from David >> > about >> > internet >> > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >> > the >> > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >> > no stress. I'm >> > sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >> > member's >> > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. >> > >> > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information >> > about >> > others, or >> > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >> > sensitive topics. >> > >> > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >> > stay on topic, >> > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. >> > >> > Antonio >> > >> > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> > > > wrote: >> > >> > Good evening all, >> > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, >> > or >> > lack >> > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >> > the >> > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed >> > to >> > be a >> > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >> > parents >> > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >> > means that >> > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >> > anyone, >> > conducts a Google search. >> > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >> > which >> > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >> > contact them >> > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to >> > that >> > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back >> > and >> > forth, >> > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >> > others. >> > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication >> > among >> > list >> > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are >> > the >> > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >> > about >> > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, >> > but >> > I'm >> > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and >> > the >> > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >> > polite and >> > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >> > strong >> > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >> > email >> > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> > >> > Thank you, >> > Sincerely, >> > Your list moderator, >> > >> > -- >> > Mary Fernandez >> > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people >> > will >> > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> > them >> > feel." >> > -- >> > Maya Angelou >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >> > 0gmail.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> > mail.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info >> > for nabs-l: >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >> > izon.net >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> > t104%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Kaiti >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Take care, >> > Ty >> > http://tds-solutions.net >> > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >> > fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >> > il.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >>-- >>Kaiti >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From tyler at tysdomain.com Sat Aug 16 20:30:53 2014 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 16:30:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <53EFBF7D.1080104@tysdomain.com> Kaiti and all: I want to appologise regarding the last message. I sent it with no intent to be rude or suggest that the harassment off list is not a problem. I wanted to make a few points, which I will hopefully try to make again, but in a better context. Please do know though, that my message was sent with the intent to help, and not to suggest that there were not issues to begin with. First, I think a set of rules would be awesome. I only recommend making them be sent out monthly as well as in the welcome email that people receive. I think these could include conduct on list, but I don't know how viable it is to police those off list, which I will get to shortly. Second, I think that it can be pretty hard to monitor emails and would suggest that people on the NABS board also have the responsibility of saying "this has gone to far," as well as stepping in when name calling is a problem. There are only so many moderators and there's only so much each of them can do. Third, I think that in place of emailing the list with issues (perhaps the bra size could have been sent to a moderator and not to the list), it makes more sense to forward the email off list. Finally, I'm going to get to the off-list bit, which was what the larger point of my last message was regarding. I did not wish to downplay or invalidate your experiences, but to make note that there really isn't anything that any of the moderators could do regarding off-list posts. For example, if someone were to send me an email that was cursing at me, forwarding it to David might have some affect, but most likely it will not. If a list is being used for communication, we can demand and expect that people hold themselves to a set of rules, which can pretty easily be enforced on that specific list. If, however the discussion moves off list, it is really hard to police that without a "he said, she said" set of issues. to that end, I do have a few ideas that may help. It won't remove the issue entirely, but it might be a step. 1) If you have harassing emails being sent to you, just deleting everything from that person without reading the email is probably the easiest step. 2) If you wish to take action (because the emails bother you or to prevent this from happening to other people), you can forward the emails to the email provider's abuse department. Every ISP is required to have an abuse address, so if you look at the end of the email (what comes after the @, you can determine who the provider is. For example, if I'm emailing from bla at gmail.com, gmail.com is the provider. Forward the email to abuse at gmail.com. 3) With regard to social networks, you also have the option generally of reporting spam. This depends, but if you are constantly receiving requests, you can block the person or report it as spam. While I realize these aren't going to be the best of solutions, there really is no specific way to prevent this at all from happening. I think we should strive to make this list as welcoming and hold members to a set of rules, but when it comes to off-list conduct, there really only is a few steps that the moderators could take and some pretty basic workarounds to even those. If there are specific instances where my ideas don't apply, feel free to shoot me an email off list and I'll do what I can to help. Thanks, On 8/16/2014 12:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: > Also, just because the guy harassed Helga off-list and she replied > on-list, that doesn't take him out of the wrong or shift the blame for > what he did onto her. That was precisely why I expressed a desire to > have something put in place to avoid off-list issues like that, > because it is a problem. For all I know guys might not get the creepy > emails from repeat offenders and might not even have realized it was > happening, but that doesn't mean that since it isn't a problem for > you, it isn't a problem for others. Delete what you don't want to see > is all well and good for things like self promos which are harmless, > but when they cross a line we need to do something about them. Same > for blocking. Individuals can block the creepy email senders all they > want, but the person behind the issue isn't going to stop finding new > people to try sending stuff to unless there are consequences for them. > > Furthermore, this is a perfect example of handling disagreement. If > you don't think this is an issue that needs policing or don't like the > suggestions others have proffered, you can choose whether or not to > get involved in the thread. You are certainly free to have your > oppinions, but I took your last message as a negative slam of sorts > against people who feel there are major issues with conduct on the > list, and the suggestions they are just kicking around to see what > might come of them. Perhaps I read it the wrong way since we're > working through text alone here, but that's just the vibe I got. Case > and point why such an internet etiquette forum or something might be > useful, as tone in text verses spoken word was one of the proposed > topics for such a talk. Maybe it would only attract those who are > already cognicent of courtesy on the list, but obviously both of us > cared enough to jump in on this thread and got very different ideas of > how the previous posts were intended to sound. > > On 8/16/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >> I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a >> sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys >> doing things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It >> is our responsibility as members of this list and the >> responsibility of the moderators to ensure that this is a safe >> place where people can post without being harassed. Maybe we >> can't get rid of this sort of thing completely, but that's no >> reason to tolerate this when it's brought to our attention. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" > To: Kaiti Shelton , National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> Hello: >> I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy >> asked her >> bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not >> appropriate, >> but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't >> want. >> >> Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks >> like it's >> a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any >> girl >> with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, >> then they >> say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets >> invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them. >> >> I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to >> go, just >> send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, >> just send >> it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence >> calls, >> classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going >> to be >> ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who >> already >> acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules >> is just >> forcing them to go through another step to register and they can >> still >> say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a >> bit of >> extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this >> option. You >> do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome >> letters, at >> which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them >> can be >> the same results as not following the rules you have to click a >> button >> to agree, whatever that may be. >> >> I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats >> on and >> off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just >> block them >> or hit delete on their messages. >> On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: >> It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of >> people taking advantage of the fact that other list members >> can't >> necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted >> attention off-list. I know policing such matters is >> impractical, but >> it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know >> practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back >> on >> Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a >> connection or >> in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random >> emails >> to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think >> people >> would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior >> happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if >> things like >> this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of >> people >> on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which >> says >> something about how permission should be gained before sending a >> messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend >> someone >> on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to >> be >> friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette >> guidelines, >> there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this >> behavior is >> due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and >> the >> person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to >> properly >> correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. >> >> The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done >> without >> severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few >> years >> I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to >> respond to >> something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they >> were >> too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought >> they >> would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed >> things >> like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want >> to >> stifle any of these things and have actually made some good >> friends >> through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the >> NABS >> list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when >> some >> random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on >> different >> social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check >> or >> didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really >> didn't >> need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either >> not >> checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations >> because >> I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, >> or am >> not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal >> information. I >> think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and >> especially >> puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since >> this >> is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you >> alone >> gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for >> dealing >> with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails >> just keep >> coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. >> >> On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet >> etiquette, >> but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already >> will >> care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just >> tells me >> that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, >> calling >> individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the >> negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this >> thread is >> probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list >> moderators >> like Mary and Dave. >> >> I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it >> would >> be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I >> like the >> idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers >> complete >> the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't >> Agree >> buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I >> think >> that would make it much harder for people to just say they were >> ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. >> Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we >> can >> say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had >> an >> equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion >> that when >> you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette >> and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already >> all >> equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list >> operates >> that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. >> >> Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread >> go and >> to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about >> deleting >> a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal >> promotion >> stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't >> necessarily read >> what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is >> doing >> and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if >> you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young >> adults, >> it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather >> interested >> parties. >> >> There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I >> believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to >> say, >> don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and >> abide by >> this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently >> respond >> negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate >> emails on >> list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue >> the >> inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly >> repeat >> offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in >> their >> emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those >> people >> off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an >> eye on >> for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method >> for >> doing so. >> >> On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I agree with everything that's been said so far. >> >> I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >> often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >> 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >> registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >> once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be >> aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they >> have >> caused trouble on here. >> Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after >> they >> submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >> guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >> would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >> accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >> chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click >> on >> "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. >> >> About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >> discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >> insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >> discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >> talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts >> to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. >> >> These are just my thoughts. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Sami. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l > To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >> if >> folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A >> single >> off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge >> thread >> of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding >> someone >> who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a >> post >> bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so >> they >> can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you >> aren't >> sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the >> moderators >> privately. These are just my suggestions. >> Arielle >> >> On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l > wrote: >> Mary and all, >> >> This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has >> been >> brought up. >> >> People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >> opportunity to be >> inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >> which suspended >> or banned people from list for violations. >> >> I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >> and I never >> did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >> are not >> relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >> have been >> banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer >> have >> the chance >> to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >> moderators. >> >> Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >> enough that they >> don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. >> >> One much example are the periodic announcements from David >> about >> internet >> radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >> the >> announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >> no stress. I'm >> sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >> member's >> self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. >> >> I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information >> about >> others, or >> messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >> sensitive topics. >> >> We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >> stay on topic, >> and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. >> >> Antonio >> >> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> > wrote: >> >> Good evening all, >> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, >> or >> lack >> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >> the >> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed >> to >> be a >> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >> parents >> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >> means that >> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >> anyone, >> conducts a Google search. >> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >> which >> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >> contact them >> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to >> that >> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back >> and >> forth, >> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >> others. >> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication >> among >> list >> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are >> the >> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >> about >> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, >> but >> I'm >> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and >> the >> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >> polite and >> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >> strong >> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >> email >> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> >> Thank you, >> Sincerely, >> Your list moderator, >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people >> will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> them >> feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >> izon.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >> fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From jhud7789 at outlook.com Sat Aug 16 22:10:03 2014 From: jhud7789 at outlook.com (Joseph Hudson) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 17:10:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I saw the message?. Both of them replied on and I was quite surprised. On Aug 16, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: > Also, just because the guy harassed Helga off-list and she replied > on-list, that doesn't take him out of the wrong or shift the blame for > what he did onto her. That was precisely why I expressed a desire to > have something put in place to avoid off-list issues like that, > because it is a problem. For all I know guys might not get the creepy > emails from repeat offenders and might not even have realized it was > happening, but that doesn't mean that since it isn't a problem for > you, it isn't a problem for others. Delete what you don't want to see > is all well and good for things like self promos which are harmless, > but when they cross a line we need to do something about them. Same > for blocking. Individuals can block the creepy email senders all they > want, but the person behind the issue isn't going to stop finding new > people to try sending stuff to unless there are consequences for them. > > Furthermore, this is a perfect example of handling disagreement. If > you don't think this is an issue that needs policing or don't like the > suggestions others have proffered, you can choose whether or not to > get involved in the thread. You are certainly free to have your > oppinions, but I took your last message as a negative slam of sorts > against people who feel there are major issues with conduct on the > list, and the suggestions they are just kicking around to see what > might come of them. Perhaps I read it the wrong way since we're > working through text alone here, but that's just the vibe I got. Case > and point why such an internet etiquette forum or something might be > useful, as tone in text verses spoken word was one of the proposed > topics for such a talk. Maybe it would only attract those who are > already cognicent of courtesy on the list, but obviously both of us > cared enough to jump in on this thread and got very different ideas of > how the previous posts were intended to sound. > > On 8/16/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >> I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a >> sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys >> doing things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It >> is our responsibility as members of this list and the >> responsibility of the moderators to ensure that this is a safe >> place where people can post without being harassed. Maybe we >> can't get rid of this sort of thing completely, but that's no >> reason to tolerate this when it's brought to our attention. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" > To: Kaiti Shelton , National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> Hello: >> I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy >> asked her >> bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not >> appropriate, >> but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't >> want. >> >> Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks >> like it's >> a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any >> girl >> with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, >> then they >> say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets >> invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them. >> >> I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to >> go, just >> send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, >> just send >> it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence >> calls, >> classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going >> to be >> ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who >> already >> acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules >> is just >> forcing them to go through another step to register and they can >> still >> say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a >> bit of >> extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this >> option. You >> do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome >> letters, at >> which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them >> can be >> the same results as not following the rules you have to click a >> button >> to agree, whatever that may be. >> >> I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats >> on and >> off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just >> block them >> or hit delete on their messages. >> On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: >> It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of >> people taking advantage of the fact that other list members >> can't >> necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted >> attention off-list. I know policing such matters is >> impractical, but >> it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know >> practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back >> on >> Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a >> connection or >> in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random >> emails >> to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think >> people >> would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior >> happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if >> things like >> this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of >> people >> on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which >> says >> something about how permission should be gained before sending a >> messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend >> someone >> on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to >> be >> friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette >> guidelines, >> there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this >> behavior is >> due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and >> the >> person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to >> properly >> correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. >> >> The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done >> without >> severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few >> years >> I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to >> respond to >> something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they >> were >> too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought >> they >> would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed >> things >> like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want >> to >> stifle any of these things and have actually made some good >> friends >> through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the >> NABS >> list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when >> some >> random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on >> different >> social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check >> or >> didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really >> didn't >> need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either >> not >> checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations >> because >> I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, >> or am >> not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal >> information. I >> think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and >> especially >> puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since >> this >> is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you >> alone >> gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for >> dealing >> with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails >> just keep >> coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. >> >> On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet >> etiquette, >> but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already >> will >> care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just >> tells me >> that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, >> calling >> individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the >> negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this >> thread is >> probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list >> moderators >> like Mary and Dave. >> >> I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it >> would >> be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I >> like the >> idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers >> complete >> the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't >> Agree >> buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I >> think >> that would make it much harder for people to just say they were >> ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. >> Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we >> can >> say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had >> an >> equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion >> that when >> you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette >> and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already >> all >> equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list >> operates >> that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. >> >> Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread >> go and >> to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about >> deleting >> a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal >> promotion >> stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't >> necessarily read >> what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is >> doing >> and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if >> you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young >> adults, >> it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather >> interested >> parties. >> >> There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I >> believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to >> say, >> don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and >> abide by >> this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently >> respond >> negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate >> emails on >> list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue >> the >> inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly >> repeat >> offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in >> their >> emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those >> people >> off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an >> eye on >> for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method >> for >> doing so. >> >> On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I agree with everything that's been said so far. >> >> I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >> often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >> 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >> registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >> once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be >> aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they >> have >> caused trouble on here. >> Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after >> they >> submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >> guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >> would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >> accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >> chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click >> on >> "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. >> >> About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >> discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >> insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >> discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >> talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts >> to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. >> >> These are just my thoughts. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Sami. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l > To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >> if >> folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A >> single >> off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge >> thread >> of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding >> someone >> who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a >> post >> bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so >> they >> can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you >> aren't >> sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the >> moderators >> privately. These are just my suggestions. >> Arielle >> >> On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l > wrote: >> Mary and all, >> >> This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has >> been >> brought up. >> >> People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >> opportunity to be >> inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >> which suspended >> or banned people from list for violations. >> >> I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >> and I never >> did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >> are not >> relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >> have been >> banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer >> have >> the chance >> to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >> moderators. >> >> Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >> enough that they >> don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. >> >> One much example are the periodic announcements from David >> about >> internet >> radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >> the >> announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >> no stress. I'm >> sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >> member's >> self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. >> >> I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information >> about >> others, or >> messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >> sensitive topics. >> >> We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >> stay on topic, >> and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. >> >> Antonio >> >> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> > wrote: >> >> Good evening all, >> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, >> or >> lack >> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >> the >> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed >> to >> be a >> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >> parents >> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >> means that >> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >> anyone, >> conducts a Google search. >> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >> which >> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >> contact them >> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to >> that >> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back >> and >> forth, >> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >> others. >> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication >> among >> list >> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are >> the >> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >> about >> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, >> but >> I'm >> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and >> the >> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >> polite and >> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >> strong >> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >> email >> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> >> Thank you, >> Sincerely, >> Your list moderator, >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people >> will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> them >> feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >> izon.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >> fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Sat Aug 16 22:52:24 2014 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 18:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Advice and Experiences on Studying Abroad Message-ID: <8D187BBE136ACF8-D94-31D5@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com> Hello, I am hoping to study abroad some time in my undergrad year. If anyone here on the list has an experience of studying in Spain, Argentina, England, and/or Scottland I would love to hear about your experiences. Also if anyone has any general tips specific to blind students on studying abroad I would appreciate it as well. Best, Miso Kwak From gera1027 at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 23:11:56 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 18:11:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Advice and Experiences on Studying Abroad In-Reply-To: <8D187BBE136ACF8-D94-31D5@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D187BBE136ACF8-D94-31D5@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <53EFE53C.8070200@gmail.com> Tips that might help, based on my experiences studying here in Mexico, but it also applies to other Spanish-speaking countries: 1.-Be very very comfortable with yourself and very vocal about speaking for yourself in acomodations of books and other materials; like in the States, there are good/willing professors, and others who don't care; also if in the university or school (like with mine) they've never had a blind student, they might be at a loss of how to acomodate certain things. So speak up! 2.-Technology: Mek sure you take technology especially blindness-related like notetakers etc., because almost all countries in Latinamerica, don't loan technology as in the US; even worse, because here in Latinamerica, blindness technology is so expensive, the culture of using it, isn't wisespread; most blind people here in latinamerica, use regular Laptops with Jaws or other screen readers installed. 3.-Tell your library you're moving abroad: It sure feels lonely sometimes being in another country! so from time to time, having an English book to read, really makes you feel a lot better! Also some books required might be available from Bard! American citizens living abroad, remember, also get service! So tell your library of you're studying abroad, and they'll transfer the services to the overseas librarian. 4.-Join Bookshare: For students, it's free, and it's always good to have another source of books, right? 5.-Enjoy! Enjoy your studying abroad! you'll value things you took for granted in the US! Hope these tips help! El 16/08/2014 05:52 p.m., Miso Kwak via nabs-l escribió: > Hello, I am hoping to study abroad some time in my undergrad year. > If anyone here on the list has an experience of studying in Spain, > Argentina, England, and/or Scottland I would love to hear about your > experiences. Also if anyone has any general tips specific to blind > students on studying abroad I would appreciate it as well. > Best, > Miso Kwak > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Aug 17 01:35:01 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 21:35:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Universities with a Graduate Program for SpecialEducation of the Blind In-Reply-To: <37BD8744-DC81-43D3-9FD2-40312D4DBF46@gmail.com> References: <37BD8744-DC81-43D3-9FD2-40312D4DBF46@gmail.com> Message-ID: hi, is vanderbilt a grad program and how many credits is it? do they expect you to have an education background or a particular undergrad major? May attend a special ed program someday. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Aikens via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:03 PM To: Jewel ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Universities with a Graduate Program for SpecialEducation of the Blind Hi Jewel, In the southeast there is the program at Vanderbilt University and at Florida State University. Both are great programs that have some good funding options. I attended Vanderbilt and know several people that came through the FSU program. I believe the University of Alabama at Birmingham has a program but I don’t know anything about it. Aside from the other programs mentioned by others, there are programs at Missouri State, Western Michigan, and University of Northern Colorado. Some of these have larger online components than others. If you have any questions about my experiences with the program at Vanderbilt or living in Nashville , please feel free to contact me on or off list. Best, Greg On Aug 12, 2014, at 7:46 PM, Jewel via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I'm researching schools that have a graduate program for special > education of the glind. I know about Louisiana Tech University, North > Carolina Central University, Northern Illinois University, and have > seen mention of possibly the University of Arizona at Tucson. Does > anyone know any others? The first three I mentioned, I have ruled out > for personal reasons that I won't go into here. > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Aug 17 01:54:08 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 18:54:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Advice and Experiences on Studying Abroad In-Reply-To: <53EFE53C.8070200@gmail.com> References: <8D187BBE136ACF8-D94-31D5@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com> <53EFE53C.8070200@gmail.com> Message-ID: I studied in Australia for a semester. I know that's not one of the countries you mentioned, but I'm happy to answer general questions off-list. I do have one general tip which is to find out if there are any blindness organizations or services in the country you are visiting and check out what resources they have to offer. I'm really glad I connected with Vision Australia since they provided me orientation to campus and even let me borrow a book I needed for class in hard copy Braille! I also got to hang out with some young blind people in Australia which was fun. Personally I would feel a bit anxious about living in a country where I didn't speak or understand the language fluently, because I think that makes it hard to ask for information or directions when walking around. But I know other blind people who have done it successfully. Of course, if you are fluent in Spanish, this shouldn't be a problem. Best, Arielle On 8/16/14, Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l wrote: > Tips that might help, based on my experiences studying here in Mexico, > but it also applies to other Spanish-speaking countries: > 1.-Be very very comfortable with yourself and very vocal about speaking > for yourself in acomodations of books and other materials; like in the > States, there are good/willing professors, and others who don't care; > also if in the university or school (like with mine) they've never had a > blind student, they might be at a loss of how to acomodate certain > things. So speak up! > 2.-Technology: Mek sure you take technology especially blindness-related > like notetakers etc., because almost all countries in Latinamerica, > don't loan technology as in the US; even worse, because here in > Latinamerica, blindness technology is so expensive, the culture of using > it, isn't wisespread; most blind people here in latinamerica, use > regular Laptops with Jaws or other screen readers installed. > 3.-Tell your library you're moving abroad: It sure feels lonely > sometimes being in another country! so from time to time, having an > English book to read, really makes you feel a lot better! Also some > books required might be available from Bard! American citizens living > abroad, remember, also get service! So tell your library of you're > studying abroad, and they'll transfer the services to the overseas > librarian. > 4.-Join Bookshare: For students, it's free, and it's always good to have > another source of books, right? > 5.-Enjoy! Enjoy your studying abroad! you'll value things you took for > granted in the US! > Hope these tips help! > El 16/08/2014 05:52 p.m., Miso Kwak via nabs-l escribió: >> Hello, I am hoping to study abroad some time in my undergrad year. >> If anyone here on the list has an experience of studying in Spain, >> Argentina, England, and/or Scottland I would love to hear about your >> experiences. Also if anyone has any general tips specific to blind >> students on studying abroad I would appreciate it as well. >> Best, >> Miso Kwak >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki > Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México > RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM > México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From freethaught at gmail.com Sun Aug 17 03:18:27 2014 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 23:18:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] a not so brief story on dog training: your thoughts? In-Reply-To: <9CF67B79-AAE7-44E0-8C9C-80BB89A53FA6@gmail.com> References: <9CF67B79-AAE7-44E0-8C9C-80BB89A53FA6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <98A8CA8C-895D-40B6-8FB1-8FFC1121409B@gmail.com> Valerie, I was captivated by your description of training zion. There isn’t much I’d ask for you to add to, and I wish you all the success in training your dog. I am not sure most blind people who think they can, ad do war to train guide dogs have your background, and understanding of animal behavior and psychology. It would take a resourceful, keenly aware and tuned in blind person to train a guide. It takes a keenly aware person of any kind to train a guide, bt a blind person must think harder about safe situations and techniques to teach a dog things like stoping at curbs. You for instance knew what your dog expects of you, and how you expect it to behave. I would not personally advocate or accept blind people as guide trainers if they could not demonstrate they have this type of knowledge. I don’t say this for any reason other than to be open and honest in sharing my point of view. Maybe the way a blind person can work training guide dogs is to get good dog training under their belt outside of any blind-related program. Nothing keeps a blind person from learning dog training the same way a sighted trainer learns the trade, except for the common prejudices we face all the time. So, if the next blind trainer could find a program that would accept her, train her, and certify her, she’d be on her way to working training your every day run of the mill dog. You know, the mainstream kind. Guide dogs aren’t especially brilliant or extraordinary, just specialized in their training. The dog trainer could then work with a guide dog school in a support position, trainer’s assistant role, if such a thing exists. The school would need to be supportive and open to giving the blind trainer an The opportunity to move up, and into her desired position of dog trainer, with full responsibilities of training students in the regular class setting. This is all easier said than done, and if you were to take steps like these, schools would likely have their guard up about you. You or another aspiring blind guide dog trainer would need a plan B ready if the self-guided independent training track didn’t work to attract an open-minded school. Heck, I don’t know why a blind person couldn’t be hired to visit applicants, take them for Juno walks, and assess them for a guide dog school starting tomorrow! There is more to in that holding a harness, and teaching correction, but not much more that a savvy dog lover couldn’t learn in time. It will take great blind trainers and an open mind somewhere so the blind person can at least get a foot in the door. That is all the brainstorming I have for tonight, and feel free to add antonio at accesstoplaces.com to an email distribution list for your updates. Maybe a blogging site would work also. Antonio On Aug 15, 2014, at 5:39 PM, Valerie Gibson via nabs-l wrote: > A few years back, I brought up a debatable topic--dog training. > > I tried to apply for a dog training school and was denied on the basis of blindness. This sparked a debate of sorts: Can a blind person train a dog? > I responded to a discussion post about guide dogs and training, and with that in mind, I'd like to reintroduce this topic, and give you a peek into what I've been doing and my accomplishments. I'd also like to hear your thoughts on the matter, and maybe some of you might have questions, criticisms, or words of caution, all of which are fine. > I'm also going to talk about why i decided to do what I've been doing. Understand though that just because I do this does not mean that everyone should. I just thought I'd take this on, and it's working. I pray it stays that way. > So, dog truing... > I've always loved it since I was a kid. I love learning how animals think and learn. I love studying animal behavior through written observations and applying ecology, sociology and psychology of animals to this. > My outlook on dogs is this: Dogs are not people. They are not furry children. They are beings who speak a different language, share a different culture and have a different mindset that we do. Dogs don't just need a leader, they want one, and some moore than others. Even a soft tempered dog will try to take over leadership position if it feels there is no one to guide it. Hard tempered dogs will try more forcefully to take over this spot, because their mothers or other "leaders" were made of sterner stuff. > I don't want to bore you with a dog training guide, but that's just the tip of the ice burg for my philosophy. > Last december, I purchased a seven and a half week old akita puppy in the hopes that I could train it as a guide dog. I have my reasons for wanting the akita. > The easiest way to get a guide dog would obviously be going to a school. > Let me say first that I am, in no way, opposed to guide dog schools. Having never been to one, I can not make a judgement call on their training methods, but given that there are many schools, there are probably just as many training methods for their dogs. > I didn't, not, go with a school because I wanted to go rogue and didn't want to follow their rules, though I think some of the rules (from what i've heard) are unnecessary. > I think guide dog schools are great for people who are taking on a dog for the first time or for people who just don't want to put in the time and effort in training their dogs to guide, or for people who simply don't know how. I applaud guide dog trainers for their work in training tens of dogs at a time to go with handlers who have various life styles. > So if training a guide dog would be harder, take up more time, and cost more money than just getting one from a school, why not get one from a school? > First I understand dog psychology and how to train a dog. Every trainer has their own philosophy, so mine might be different from your's for example. I also wanted to see if I could do it. If Zion did not become a guide dog, no big deal. At least he would be a very well behaved house pet. So I wasn't hell bent on this dog becoming a guide dog. > So a week before christmas, I brought home this akita puppy. I made sure that the breeder gave me one with the temperament that I was wanting rather than it's appearance. > Zion's training began the moment I brought him home with crate training and overall good house manners. He never got any extra privileges until he'd proven to respond favorable to the ones he had. For example, he stayed in his crate unless he was playing or training. Never did he get to run around the house. Every three hours, even if he was sleeping, he was made to take a potty break. This often meant me setting an alarm to make sure that I got up. It's a good thing I was on christmas break from school. :) > Once he let me know when he had to go out, and as he grew, his potty breaks were at longer intervals. Once he could entertain himself in his kennel, he was allowed to entertain himself in one room of my house, and for only half an hour. > Slowly he got more and more privileges. When he was a puppy and hardly had any rights in the home, I would let anyone pet him when we were in public. > What you have to understand is that akitas are very hard to train. They an be trained, and yes, labs and goldens and german shepherds are easier, but I knew what I was dealing with when I took on an akita. I believe in trainability, they rank number 48. They learn slower than a lab or retriever, and if not handled correctly, they can be aggressive to other dogs and people. They have a natural instinct to guard and protect and often times, they have a mind of their own. Training an akita is very different than training a lab or retriever. > Akitas also reach physical and psychological maturation a year or so later than a lab or retriever. > When I started training Zion, i got a lot of frowns (and I'm sure some eye rolling) from both blind and sighted people. > A lady who worked at Zion's puppy obedience class and is also a former trainer from a guide dog school that shall remain nameless, would often say to me (after Zion was being really stubborn), "See why it takes a specialized team to train guide dogs?" Even the trainers who were on board with my training him as a potential guide dog would all of a sudden have their doubts after speaking with this lady. > This was very disheartening. I wasn't discouraged at my dog's behavior, but at the lack of support I was getting. I'd taken him to the class to get back in the groove of training and to speak with fellow trainers. I guess, for some reason, I was amazed at a sighted trainer who trains dogs for blind people be discouraging to a blind person in training her own dog. The funny thing was, when she made that comment, we weren't even training guide work. It was simple obedience. > I stopped going to that class. By that time, I'd gotten down the basics and was going to teach my dog on my own. > Zion went with me almost everywhere, and he hung out almost entirely with guide dogs. I used a dog that I'd previously trained to teach him commands, because it was a very quick way for him to learn. He learned a lot from the guide dogs too. When he was three months, he was potty trained, and he could lie under tables at restaurants and not be a bother (though I'm sure the fellow dogs under the table with him would disagree.). > Allow me to take a quick detour in the writing. > There's a lot of hype about people taking their pets, buying a "service dog in training" patch and some "documentation", and claiming their dog's a service dog. This royally ticks me off, probably more than i t would for you who has a guide dog. > It gives people like me a bad name because I've got about just as much resource to back it up as they do, with the addition that my dog speaks for himself. For another, I've put a lot of time into this dog's training. For another, this dog has cost me roughly 3 thousand dollars right now, and he's only mine months, and that's not including the medical issues we've been battling. I completely understand and agree with service dog trainer's feelings when it comes to this issue because I know they're putting more money and work into the dogs than I am. > I've heard that soon businesses will have a legal right to see documentation on service animals, and I agree with this. > Now that that is said, I took zion almost everywhere with me. As his restrictions got less and less at hime, they got stricter in public. Now, people had to ask me to pet him, and they could only do so if he sat down politely. > When he was about seven months, he began to wear a harness with "service dog in training" patches on each side of it. By this time, he was used to going places with me, and he knew what I expected out of him. Did that mean that he did not test me? Absolutely not! > He wore the harness at first to get used to the feel of it, but he was still walked on leash. At night, when no one was around, i walked him up and down the corridors of my apartment to teach him what it would feel like for someone to be holding onto the harness. Luckily the apartment has pretty distinct left and right turns, and even at nine months, we're still working on those. > The first break through for me came on August second. I'd let him guide me before to the train station or to the front office, but I always had my cane out. This time, I was not going to use my cane at all. > Dangerous? sure, but if i didn't give him, and myself, a test, how would I know what he'd learned. > Apart from getting distracted a few times, he led me to the train, guiding me around planters and pausing at stairs. > I knew that this didn't mean that he could guide me anywhere. It just meant he had the idea of what he was supposed to do. > If things are too distracting for him, I'd never let him do that, but if I feel that he can work and there are not too many distractions, I will trust him to guide me. I will never put him in a situation where he would fail as a guide because he is still in the learning and correcting phase. > That's another thing. Having never had a guide dog before, it was my responsibility to have trust in my training and in him, and that was a big step for me too. > Since then, zion has guided me to the front office, to the train, to walmart, to petco and back to my apartment. These are places that I know really well, so it's easy for me to correct him when I know he's made a wrong turn or is distracted. Zion can find petco better than I can with a cane. Imagine that. :) > At some point soon, I am hoping to get certified with the association of professional dog Trainers so that I can train other people dogs and maybe see if the NFB can't have a national association of blind dog trainers. :) > This certification would also give me some credibility in the work that he will be doing. Right now, it's very difficult to find a trainer who will back you if you're a blind person training your own dog. Throw on a "service dog" title, and it's almost impossible.The only thing that I would not train when it comes to dogs is dogs with aggression issues. I think that this is where a blind person must draw the line. Dogs communicate through body language, and it's easy to tell what body language the dog is giving off but with aggression, you need to know, and you can't afford to make a wrong move. One could argue that a growl is a sign of aggression, but that's not always the case, and if it is, the dog has given off a few body signals before the growl that a trainer must notice. You never want to get to a point where your dog feels the need to growl because that's usually the last signal it will give before snapping. > I'd be interested to hear any feedback from dog lovers. If anyone has any questions, I'd be eager to try and answer them, but I i do not have all the answers. Zion's training is no where near finished, but even sighted people tell me: "he's come a long way as a puppy." I once was told by someone that they had reservations that I was really training him as a guide dog, but they can see thahaht he would make a good guide dog. > If anyone has trained their own guide dog, please email me. I'd love to hear of your experiences, and throw around some ideas on how best to train. > > Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I hope it was enlightening and not too boring. :) > > If you want me to keep you posted on Zion's training, I can do that. > > Everyone have a good rest of the day and good luck in school next semester. :) > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Sun Aug 17 10:52:20 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 03:52:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Advice and Experiences on Studying Abroad In-Reply-To: References: <8D187BBE136ACF8-D94-31D5@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com> <53EFE53C.8070200@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good morning, Arielle, Wow! Australia? How fun for you. Have you any stories about Aussie? Would love to study in Australia! You oughta call, if you'd like. I'm in Berkeley California: cell: 408-209-3239 r I would love to do that, too!06:54 PM 8/16/2014, you wrote: >I studied in Australia for a semester. I know >that's not one of the countries you mentioned, >but I'm happy to answer general questions >off-list. I do have one general tip which is to >find out if there are any blindness >organizations or services in the country you are >visiting and check out what resources they have >to offer. I'm really glad I connected with >Vision Australia since they provided me >orientation to campus and even let me borrow a >book I needed for class in hard copy Braille! I >also got to hang out with some young blind >people in Australia which was fun. Personally I >would feel a bit anxious about living in a >country where I didn't speak or understand the >language fluently, because I think that makes it >hard to ask for information or directions when >walking around. But I know other blind people >who have done it successfully. Of course, if you >are fluent in Spanish, this shouldn't be a >problem. Best, Arielle On 8/16/14, Gerardo >Corripio via nabs-l >wrote: > Tips that might help, based on my >experiences studying here in Mexico, > but it >also applies to other Spanish-speaking >countries: > 1.-Be very very comfortable with >yourself and very vocal about speaking > for >yourself in acomodations of books and other >materials; like in the > States, there are >good/willing professors, and others who don't >care; > also if in the university or school >(like with mine) they've never had a > blind >student, they might be at a loss of how to >acomodate certain > things. So speak up! > >2.-Technology: Mek sure you take technology >especially blindness-related > like notetakers >etc., because almost all countries in >Latinamerica, > don't loan technology as in the >US; even worse, because here in > Latinamerica, >blindness technology is so expensive, the >culture of using > it, isn't wisespread; most >blind people here in latinamerica, use > regular >Laptops with Jaws or other screen readers >installed. > 3.-Tell your library you're moving >abroad: It sure feels lonely > sometimes being >in another country! so from time to time, having >an > English book to read, really makes you feel >a lot better! Also some > books required might >be available from Bard! American citizens >living > abroad, remember, also get service! So >tell your library of you're > studying abroad, >and they'll transfer the services to the >overseas > librarian. > 4.-Join Bookshare: For >students, it's free, and it's always good to >have > another source of books, right? > >5.-Enjoy! Enjoy your studying abroad! you'll >value things you took for > granted in the US! > >Hope these tips help! > El 16/08/2014 05:52 >p.m., Miso Kwak via nabs-l escribió: >> Hello, >I am hoping to study abroad some time in my >undergrad year. >> If anyone here on the list >has an experience of studying in Spain, >> >Argentina, England, and/or Scottland I would >love to hear about your >> experiences. Also if >anyone has any general tips specific to blind >> >students on studying abroad I would appreciate >it as well. >> Best, >> Miso Kwak >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com > > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J >Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki > >Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México > >RompiendoBarreras espacio de >psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM > >México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los >esperamos! > > > >_______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >get your account info for > nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Aug 17 18:07:09 2014 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 13:07:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Amen. Not to drag this thread on too much longer, but I think it worth notice that the initial issue started with a comment that is definitely, in my book, sexual harassment. I'm glad somebody else sees that and feels it necessary to bring this particular part of the issue up. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 16, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: > > I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys doing things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It is our responsibility as members of this list and the responsibility of the moderators to ensure that this is a safe place where people can post without being harassed. Maybe we can't get rid of this sort of thing completely, but that's no reason to tolerate this when it's brought to our attention. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" To: Kaiti Shelton , National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > > Hello: > I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy asked her > bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not appropriate, > but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't want. > > Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks like it's > a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any girl > with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, then they > say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets > invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them. > > I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to go, just > send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, just send > it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence calls, > classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going to be > ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who already > acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules is just > forcing them to go through another step to register and they can still > say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a bit of > extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this option. You > do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome letters, at > which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them can be > the same results as not following the rules you have to click a button > to agree, whatever that may be. > > I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats on and > off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just block them > or hit delete on their messages. > On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: > It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of > people taking advantage of the fact that other list members can't > necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted > attention off-list. I know policing such matters is impractical, but > it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know > practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back on > Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a connection or > in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random emails > to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think people > would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior > happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if things like > this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of people > on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which says > something about how permission should be gained before sending a > messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend someone > on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to be > friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette guidelines, > there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this behavior is > due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and the > person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to properly > correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. > > The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done without > severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few years > I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to respond to > something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they were > too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought they > would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed things > like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want to > stifle any of these things and have actually made some good friends > through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the NABS > list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when some > random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on different > social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check or > didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really didn't > need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either not > checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations because > I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, or am > not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal information. I > think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and especially > puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since this > is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you alone > gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for dealing > with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails just keep > coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. > > On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet etiquette, > but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already will > care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just tells me > that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, calling > individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the > negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is > probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list moderators > like Mary and Dave. > > I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it would > be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I like the > idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers complete > the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't Agree > buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I think > that would make it much harder for people to just say they were > ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. > Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we can > say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had an > equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion that when > you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette > and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already all > equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list operates > that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. > > Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go and > to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about deleting > a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal promotion > stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't necessarily read > what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is doing > and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if > you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young adults, > it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather interested > parties. > > There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I > believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say, > don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide by > this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently respond > negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate emails on > list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue the > inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly repeat > offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in their > emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those people > off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an eye on > for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method for > doing so. > > On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > > I agree with everything that's been said so far. > > I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more > often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every > 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've > registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted > once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be > aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they have > caused trouble on here. > Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they > submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the > guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person > would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they > accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second > chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on > "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. > > About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of > discussions are fine as long as people are not personally > insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a > discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and > talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts > to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. > > These are just my thoughts. > > Thanks, > > Sami. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National > Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > > I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice > if > folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A single > off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge > thread > of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding > someone > who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a > post > bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so > they > can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you > aren't > sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the > moderators > privately. These are just my suggestions. > Arielle > > On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l wrote: > Mary and all, > > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been > brought up. > > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the > opportunity to be > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines > which suspended > or banned people from list for violations. > > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, > and I never > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and > are not > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could > have been > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have > the chance > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the > moderators. > > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent > enough that they > don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. > > One much example are the periodic announcements from David about > internet > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide > the > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with > no stress. I'm > sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a > member's > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. > > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about > others, or > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and > sensitive topics. > > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, > stay on topic, > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. > > Antonio > > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l > wrote: > > Good evening all, > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or > lack > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on > the > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to > be a > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, > parents > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which > means that > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, > anyone, > conducts a Google search. > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, > which > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you > contact them > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and > forth, > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards > others. > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among > list > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion > about > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but > I'm > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be > polite and > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have > strong > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my > email > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. > > Thank you, > Sincerely, > Your list moderator, > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made > them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver > izon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine > t104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma > il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Aug 17 22:01:41 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 18:01:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] campus employment Message-ID: Hi all, Who has had a campus job? What did you do and what accomodations were made? I’m hoping I can be a computer lab assistant. Any low vision person done that? I can probably see inappropriate behavior and I can see a community college ID versus something else. What about other campus jobs such as serving at the information desk, leading tours, or providing reception coverage? I know most reception jobs where they schedule student appointments is done via paper; additionally, you have to check student IDS and work with papers. So that job probably cannot be adapted. I think information desk assistant is doable, so I might look into that. My thinking is I might be able to do the lab assistant job because I can verbally instruct students what to do. I am not sure I can check them in; I can see the community college ID with its large letters of its nick name but I cannot tell if the id holder matches the person. The way I might be able to tell this is by scanning their id and if something pops up on screen, I could check that way. If I cannot work in a computer lab or the writing center lab, another idea is working in our assistive tech lab. That should be doable. Thanks for any ideas. Ashley From sgermano at asu.edu Sun Aug 17 22:20:42 2014 From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 15:20:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] campus employment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am low vision and worked as a tutor in the computer lab. This was many years ago. The student would fill out a card with their name, which computer they were sitting at, and brief description of the question. The tutors would take card and go to that computer and help the student. For the most part I did not have any issues with this job except when the card was filled out really smalll or sloppy writing. The computer lab at my current university has things on the table that you stand up when you have a question so the tutors would need to be able to see that. Suzanne On Sunday, August 17, 2014, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > Who has had a campus job? What did you do and what accomodations were made? > > I’m hoping I can be a computer lab assistant. > Any low vision person done that? > I can probably see inappropriate behavior and I can see a community > college ID versus something else. > > What about other campus jobs such as serving at the information desk, > leading tours, or providing reception coverage? > I know most reception jobs where they schedule student appointments is > done via paper; additionally, you have to check student IDS and work with > papers. So that job probably cannot be adapted. > I think information desk assistant is doable, so I might look into that. > > My thinking is I might be able to do the lab assistant job because I can > verbally instruct students what to do. I am not sure I can check them in; I > can see the community college ID with its large letters of its nick name > but I cannot tell if the id holder matches the person. The way I might be > able to tell this is by scanning their id and if something pops up on > screen, I could check that way. > > If I cannot work in a computer lab or the writing center lab, another idea > is working in our assistive tech lab. That should be doable. > > Thanks for any ideas. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > From kmaent1 at gmail.com Sun Aug 17 22:38:42 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 18:38:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] campus employment Message-ID: <53f12efd.e888320a.3c21.ffffe920@mx.google.com> Hi=20Ashley,=20I've=20had=20four=20different=20campus=20jobs=20none=20of=20= which=20 needed=20more=20than=20minimal=20accommodation.=20=20The=20school=20I=20use= d=20to=20go=20 to=20had=20and=20SI=20(Supplemental=20Instruction)=20program=20where=20they= =20pay=20 students=20to=20retake=20classes=20and=20then=20hold=20study=20sessions=20w= ith=20 students=20after=20class,=20so=20I=20did=20that=20for=20a=20few=20semesters= .=20=20I=20also=20 worked=20as=20an=20individual=20tutor.=20=20The=20only=20things=20I=20neede= d=20help=20 with=20was=20filling=20in=20payroll=20sheets=20and=20having=20the=20secreta= ry=20in=20 the=20office=20I=20worked=20out=20of=20date=20the=20sheets=20my=20students= =20had=20to=20 sign.=20=20I=20also=20got=20the=20books=20for=20the=20classes=20I=20was=20t= utoring=20and=20 SIing=20for=20in=20accessible=20format=20from=20the=20publisher.=20=20At=20= my=20new=20 school,=20they=20hire=20students=20already=20sitting=20in=20the=20class=20t= o=20take=20 notes=20for=20whoever=20has=20trouble=20taking=20notes=20on=20their=20own,= =20and=20 since=20I=20already=20type=20my=20notes=20on=20my=20Apex,=20I=20have=20done= =20that=20a=20few=20 times=20as=20well.=20=20And=20this=20summer=20I=20had=20an=20internship=20w= ith=20the=20 philosophy=20department=20where=20I=20read=20articles=20and=20summarized=20= them=20 to=20cut=20down=20on=20the=20professor's=20work=20load=20and=20where=20I=20= also=20did=20 some=20editing=20for=20books=20and=20articles=20that=20professors=20are=20w= riting.=20=20 I=20had=20the=20DSS=20office=20convert=20some=20PDFs=20to=20DOC=20for=20me= =20when=20they=20 wouldn't=20convert=20properly=20with=20my=20PDF=20converter,=20and=20I=20as= ked=20 professors=20to=20send=20me=20the=20things=20they=20wanted=20me=20to=20edit= =20in=20DOC=20 format,=20but=20other=20than=20that=20I=20didn't=20need=20any=20accommodati= ons. Hope=20this=20gives=20you=20some=20ideas, Karl =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Ashley=20Bramlett=20via=20nabs-l=20 Hi all I been wanting to get employed and things but anyway i went into meet with the job developer or just to meet him and discuss things. the primary thing he asked me was what jobs do blind people do. that was the question that came up. i did not answer that he really didn't give me much chance to talk much and things though what jobs do blind people how would have you guys answered him if you were in my shoes. From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Aug 17 23:05:03 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 16:05:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] getting employed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ople participate in nearly all job fields. What is it you want to do? Wht is your educationalbackground? Arielle On 8/17/14, Andrew via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all > > I been wanting to get employed and things but anyway i went into meet > with the job developer or just to meet him and discuss things. the > primary thing he asked me was what jobs do blind people do. that was > the question that came up. i did not answer that he really didn't > give me much chance to talk much and things though what jobs do blind > people how would have you guys answered him if you were in my shoes. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Sun Aug 17 23:25:32 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 19:25:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] getting employed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <035501cfba72$8a901450$9fb03cf0$@gmail.com> I would answer, anything we want. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:59 PM To: nabs-l Subject: [nabs-l] getting employed Hi all I been wanting to get employed and things but anyway i went into meet with the job developer or just to meet him and discuss things. the primary thing he asked me was what jobs do blind people do. that was the question that came up. i did not answer that he really didn't give me much chance to talk much and things though what jobs do blind people how would have you guys answered him if you were in my shoes. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Sun Aug 17 23:26:26 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 19:26:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] getting employed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <035601cfba72$ab90def0$02b29cd0$@gmail.com> Have your skills handy so you can lay them out before him; give him a resume, and then just tell him the kinds of jobs you would like to do. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:59 PM To: nabs-l Subject: [nabs-l] getting employed Hi all I been wanting to get employed and things but anyway i went into meet with the job developer or just to meet him and discuss things. the primary thing he asked me was what jobs do blind people do. that was the question that came up. i did not answer that he really didn't give me much chance to talk much and things though what jobs do blind people how would have you guys answered him if you were in my shoes. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From kcj21 at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 18 03:07:48 2014 From: kcj21 at bellsouth.net (kcj21) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 20:07:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] a not so brief story on dog training: your thoughts? In-Reply-To: <9CF67B79-AAE7-44E0-8C9C-80BB89A53FA6@gmail.com> References: <9CF67B79-AAE7-44E0-8C9C-80BB89A53FA6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1408331268.18938.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Valerie,          I am very impressed with your training methods and agree that blind individuals are equally capable of training dogs. My own dog, Ellie Mae, was raised by a family who trains guide dogs, but due to her fear of loud noises such as gun shots and fireworks , she was not accepted into the program. She had already received a lot of training when we got her, but I believe my and my family's constant tendency to talk to her helped her become increasingly aware and loyal to us. For instance, we taught her the word "collar" and if I couldn't find it, I could ask her "where is your collar?" and she would search for it. Labs are naturally very intelligent and Ellie certainly seemed to understand that I didn't see as well as the rest of her family, so rather than just giving my mom a particular look when she needed to go out, Ellie would come and stand directly in front of me when she needed to go outside. I am sure that you already talk to Zion, but I'd encourage you teach him new words or even just babble to him. It is surprising how much dogs pick up on their own. I would love to hear more about your progress with Zion! Please feel free to contact me off list at kcj21 at bellsouth.net.   Best of luck, Kaley   On Friday, August 15, 2014 5:40 PM, Valerie Gibson via nabs-l wrote: A few years back, I brought up a debatable topic--dog training. I tried to apply      for a dog training school and was denied on the basis of blindness.  This sparked a debate of sorts: Can a blind person train a dog? I responded to a discussion post about guide dogs and training, and with that in mind, I'd like to reintroduce this topic, and give you a peek into what I've been doing and my accomplishments.  I'd also like to hear your thoughts on the matter, and maybe some of you might have questions, criticisms, or words of caution, all of which are fine. I'm also going to talk about why i decided to do what I've been doing.  Understand though that just because I do this does not mean that everyone should. I just thought I'd take this on, and it's working. I pray it stays that way. So, dog truing... I've always loved it since I was a kid.  I love learning how animals think and learn.  I love studying animal behavior through written observations and applying ecology, sociology and psychology of animals to this.  My outlook on dogs is this: Dogs are not people. They are not furry children. They are beings who speak a different language, share a different culture and have a different mindset that we do.  Dogs don't just need a leader, they want one, and some moore than others.  Even a soft tempered dog will try to take over leadership position if it feels there is no one to guide it. Hard tempered dogs will try more forcefully to take over this spot, because their mothers or other "leaders" were made of sterner stuff. I don't want to bore you with a dog training guide, but that's just the tip of the ice burg for my philosophy. Last december, I purchased a seven and a half week old akita puppy in the hopes that I could train it as a guide dog.  I have my reasons for wanting the akita. The easiest way to get a guide dog would obviously be going to a school. Let me say first that I am, in no way, opposed to guide dog schools.  Having never been to one, I can not make a judgement call on their training methods, but given that there are many schools, there are probably just as many training methods for their dogs.  I didn't, not, go with a school because I wanted to go rogue and didn't want to follow their rules, though I think some of the rules (from what i've heard) are unnecessary.  I think guide dog schools are great for people who are taking on a dog for the first time or for people who just don't want to put in the time and effort in training their dogs to guide, or for people who simply don't know how.  I applaud guide dog trainers for their work in training tens of dogs at a time to go with handlers who have various life styles.  So if training a guide dog would be harder, take up more time, and cost more money than just getting one from a school, why not get one from a school? First I understand dog psychology and how to train a dog.  Every trainer has their own philosophy, so mine might be different from your's for example.  I also wanted to see if I could do it. If Zion did not become a guide dog, no big deal. At least he would be a very well behaved house pet.  So I wasn't hell bent on this dog becoming a guide dog.  So a week before christmas, I brought home this akita puppy.  I made sure that the breeder gave me one with the temperament that I was wanting rather than it's appearance. Zion's training began the moment I brought him home with crate training and overall good house manners.  He never got any extra privileges until he'd proven to respond favorable to the ones he had.  For example, he stayed in his crate unless he was playing or training. Never did he get to run around the house.  Every three hours, even if he was sleeping, he was made to take a potty break.  This often meant me setting an alarm to make sure that I got up.  It's a good thing I was on christmas break from school. :) Once he let me know when he had to go out, and as he grew, his potty breaks were at longer intervals.  Once he could entertain himself in his kennel, he was allowed to entertain himself in one room of my house, and for only half an hour.  Slowly he got more and more privileges.  When he was a puppy and hardly had any rights in the home, I would let anyone pet him when we were in public. What you have to understand is that akitas are very hard to train. They an be trained, and yes, labs and goldens and german shepherds are easier, but I knew what I was dealing with when I took on an akita.  I believe in trainability, they rank number 48. They learn slower than a lab or retriever, and if not handled correctly, they can be aggressive to other dogs and people. They have a natural instinct to guard and protect and often times, they have a mind of their own.  Training an akita is very different than training a lab or retriever. Akitas also reach physical and psychological maturation a year or so later than a lab or retriever.  When I started training Zion, i got a lot of frowns (and I'm sure some eye rolling) from both blind and sighted people.  A lady who worked at Zion's puppy obedience class and is also a former trainer from a guide dog school that shall remain nameless, would often say to me (after Zion was being really stubborn), "See why it takes a specialized team to train guide dogs?" Even the trainers who were on board with my training him as a potential guide dog would all of a sudden have their doubts after speaking with this lady. This was very disheartening.  I wasn't discouraged at my dog's behavior, but at the lack of support I was getting.  I'd taken him to the class to get back in the groove of training and to speak with fellow trainers.  I guess, for some reason, I was amazed at a sighted trainer who trains dogs for blind people be discouraging to a blind person in training her own dog.  The funny thing was, when she made that comment, we weren't even training guide work. It was simple obedience.  I stopped going to that class. By that time, I'd gotten down the basics and was going to teach my dog on my own.  Zion went with me almost everywhere, and he hung out almost entirely with guide dogs.  I used a dog that I'd previously trained to teach him commands, because it was a very quick way for him to learn.  He learned a lot from the guide dogs too.  When he was three months, he was potty trained, and he could lie under tables at restaurants and not be a bother (though I'm sure the fellow dogs under the table with him would disagree.). Allow me to take a quick detour in the writing. There's a lot of hype about people taking their pets, buying a "service dog in training" patch and some "documentation", and claiming their dog's a service dog.  This royally ticks me off, probably more than i t would for you who has a guide dog. It gives people like me a bad name because I've got about just as much resource to back it up as they do, with the addition that my dog speaks for himself.  For another, I've put a lot of time into this dog's training. For another, this dog has cost me roughly 3 thousand dollars right now, and he's only mine months, and that's not including the medical issues we've been battling.  I completely understand and agree with service dog trainer's feelings when it comes to this issue because I know they're putting more money and work into the dogs than I am. I've heard that soon businesses will have a legal right to see documentation on service animals, and I agree with this. Now that that is said, I took zion almost everywhere with me.  As his restrictions got less and less at hime, they got stricter in public.  Now, people had to ask me to pet him, and they could only do so if he sat down politely.  When he was about seven months, he began to wear a harness with "service dog in training" patches on each side of it.  By this time, he was used to going places with me, and he knew what I expected out of him.  Did that mean that he did not test me? Absolutely not! He wore the harness at first to get used to the feel of it, but he was still walked on leash.  At night, when no one was around, i walked him up and down the corridors of my apartment to teach him what it would feel like for someone to be holding onto the harness.  Luckily the apartment has pretty distinct left and right turns, and even at nine months, we're still working on those.  The first break through for me came on August second.  I'd let him guide me before to the train station or to the front office, but I always had my cane out.  This time, I was not going to use my cane at all.  Dangerous? sure, but if i didn't give him, and myself, a test, how would I know what he'd learned. Apart from getting distracted a few times, he led me to the train, guiding me around planters and pausing at stairs. I knew that this didn't mean that he could guide me anywhere. It just meant he had the idea of what he was supposed to do.  If things are too distracting for him, I'd never let him do that, but if I feel that he can work and there are not too many distractions, I will trust him to guide me.  I will never put him in a situation where he would fail as a guide because he is still in the learning and correcting phase. That's another thing. Having never had a guide dog before, it was my responsibility to have trust in my training and in him, and that was a big step for me too.  Since then, zion has guided me to the front office, to the train, to walmart, to petco and back to my apartment.  These are places that I know really well, so it's easy for me to correct him when I know he's made a wrong turn or is distracted.  Zion can find petco better than I can with a cane. Imagine that. :) At some point soon, I am hoping to get certified with the association of professional dog Trainers so that I can train other people dogs and maybe see if the NFB can't have a national  association of blind dog trainers. :) This certification would also give me some credibility in the work that he will be doing.  Right now, it's very difficult to find a trainer who will back you if you're a blind person training your own dog.  Throw on a "service dog" title, and it's almost impossible.The only thing that I would not train when it comes to dogs is dogs with aggression issues.  I think that this is where a blind person must draw the line.  Dogs communicate through body language, and it's easy to tell what body language the dog is giving off but with aggression, you need to know, and you can't afford to make a wrong move.  One could argue that a growl is a sign of aggression, but that's not always the case, and if it is, the dog has given off a few body signals before the growl that a trainer must notice.  You never want to get to a point where your dog feels the need to growl because that's usually the last signal it will give before snapping.  I'd be interested to hear any feedback from dog lovers.  If anyone has any questions, I'd be eager to try and answer them, but I i do not have all the answers.  Zion's training is no where near finished, but even sighted people tell me: "he's come a long way as a puppy."  I once was told by someone that they had reservations that I was really training him as a guide dog, but they can see thahaht he would make a good guide dog.  If anyone has trained their own guide dog, please email me. I'd love to hear of your experiences, and throw around some ideas on how best to train. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I hope it was enlightening and not too boring. :) If you want me to keep you posted on Zion's training, I can do that.  Everyone have a good rest of the day and good luck in school next semester. :) _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net From codyjbair at yahoo.com Mon Aug 18 03:45:05 2014 From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (codyjbair at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 03:45:05 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] =?utf-8?q?Canvas_Learning_Management_System?= Message-ID: <508d46f3c8d04bf5be83b1a9b0fed96c@yahoo.com> Hi All, The University at which I will be starting my graduate program at in less than a month uses canvas for their learning management system. Thus I was curious as to whether any of you have used this system before and how accessible it is as I will not have access to it until a week before classes and would love to have an idea of any accessibility issues I may have before the start of classes. Thanks, Cody From louvins at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 03:59:50 2014 From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 22:59:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canvas Learning Management System In-Reply-To: <508d46f3c8d04bf5be83b1a9b0fed96c@yahoo.com> References: <508d46f3c8d04bf5be83b1a9b0fed96c@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Codi. I used canvas when I took my online science class so I could get my associates degree. It is accessible, but it might take you a few days to learn it. When I was taking my quizes I had to go to the bottom of the page to find the submit button. Also, I couldn't get canvas to work with firefox, so IE should be used. Good luck. On 8/17/14, Cody Bair via nabs-l wrote: > Hi All, > > The University at which I will be starting my graduate program at in less > than a month uses canvas for their learning management system. Thus I was > curious as to whether any of you have used this system before and how > accessible it is as I will not have access to it until a week before classes > and would love to have an idea of any accessibility issues I may have before > the start of classes. > > Thanks, > > Cody > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com > From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Mon Aug 18 14:32:33 2014 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:32:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] getting employed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <970759F0-2906-41F7-BDB5-735EE1258691@aol.com> Seriously? Everything! Alright, maybe not driving a dump truck but, who would want that kind of job anyway? Doctors, teachers, engineers, and really do I need to keep going. I'm not going to lie I would have needed to be slightly sarcastic in that moment. Come on really? Maybe I would have asked what kind of jobs have you done vocational rehab coach? Come on. Sorry for the harsh reaction. To really answer your question I would say anything but a job that requires driving. After all that's the only thing we kind of can not do right? HTH Bridget Sent from my iPad > On Aug 17, 26 Heisei, at 6:58 PM, Andrew via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all > > I been wanting to get employed and things but anyway i went into meet > with the job developer or just to meet him and discuss things. the > primary thing he asked me was what jobs do blind people do. that was > the question that came up. i did not answer that he really didn't > give me much chance to talk much and things though what jobs do blind > people how would have you guys answered him if you were in my shoes. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 14:54:30 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:54:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post their thoughts here. I will be having a call with members of the NABS board and we will come up with a new protocol that addresses some of these concerns, and will be viable for both posters and moderators. Currently, I am the only one who is specifically tasked with moderating the NABS list, and as this is a very highly trafficked list, I confess I find it difficult to keep up with every single message as this isn't my only job. That is no excuse, however, this is something we will definitely address in the upcoming call, as posters should feel safe, and my unresponsiveness should not be a reason for things to get out of hand and frustrate everyone. In the meantime, if someone sends you an inappropriate message online, please forward to me immediately, and do not reply on list. I think that employing common sense from everyone will do us all good, that is, you do not have to reply to anyone, ever. You can delete messages, and you should be aware of your privacy. That is, if you have every single way someone can contact you electronically, you are giving someone who wants to bother you, more ways of doing so. I will send out the guidelines out shortly, and think that sending them out once a month is a grand idea. Thanks again to everyone, and feel free to email me off line with any further questions or suggestions. Mary F On 8/17/14, Jedi Moerke via nabs-l wrote: > Amen. Not to drag this thread on too much longer, but I think it worth > notice that the initial issue started with a comment that is definitely, in > my book, sexual harassment. I'm glad somebody else sees that and feels it > necessary to bring this particular part of the issue up. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 16, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a >> sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys doing things >> like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It is our responsibility >> as members of this list and the responsibility of the moderators to ensure >> that this is a safe place where people can post without being harassed. >> Maybe we can't get rid of this sort of thing completely, but that's no >> reason to tolerate this when it's brought to our attention. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" > To: Kaiti Shelton , National Association of >> Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> Hello: >> I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy asked her >> bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not appropriate, >> but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't want. >> >> Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks like it's >> a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any girl >> with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, then they >> say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets >> invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them. >> >> I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to go, just >> send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, just send >> it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence calls, >> classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going to be >> ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who already >> acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules is just >> forcing them to go through another step to register and they can still >> say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a bit of >> extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this option. You >> do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome letters, at >> which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them can be >> the same results as not following the rules you have to click a button >> to agree, whatever that may be. >> >> I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats on and >> off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just block them >> or hit delete on their messages. >> On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: >> It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of >> people taking advantage of the fact that other list members can't >> necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted >> attention off-list. I know policing such matters is impractical, but >> it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know >> practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back on >> Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a connection or >> in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random emails >> to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think people >> would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior >> happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if things like >> this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of people >> on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which says >> something about how permission should be gained before sending a >> messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend someone >> on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to be >> friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette guidelines, >> there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this behavior is >> due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and the >> person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to properly >> correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. >> >> The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done without >> severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few years >> I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to respond to >> something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they were >> too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought they >> would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed things >> like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want to >> stifle any of these things and have actually made some good friends >> through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the NABS >> list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when some >> random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on different >> social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check or >> didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really didn't >> need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either not >> checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations because >> I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, or am >> not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal information. I >> think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and especially >> puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since this >> is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you alone >> gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for dealing >> with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails just keep >> coming even after 2 years of membership on the list. >> >> On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet etiquette, >> but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already will >> care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just tells me >> that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, calling >> individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the >> negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is >> probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list moderators >> like Mary and Dave. >> >> I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it would >> be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I like the >> idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers complete >> the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't Agree >> buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I think >> that would make it much harder for people to just say they were >> ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them. >> Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we can >> say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had an >> equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion that when >> you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette >> and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already all >> equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list operates >> that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with. >> >> Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go and >> to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about deleting >> a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal promotion >> stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't necessarily read >> what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is doing >> and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if >> you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young adults, >> it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather interested >> parties. >> >> There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I >> believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say, >> don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide by >> this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently respond >> negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate emails on >> list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue the >> inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly repeat >> offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in their >> emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those people >> off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an eye on >> for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method for >> doing so. >> >> On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I agree with everything that's been said so far. >> >> I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >> often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >> 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >> registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >> once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be >> aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they have >> caused trouble on here. >> Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they >> submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >> guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >> would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >> accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >> chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on >> "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. >> >> About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >> discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >> insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >> discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >> talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts >> to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. >> >> These are just my thoughts. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Sami. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l > To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >> if >> folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A single >> off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge >> thread >> of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding >> someone >> who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a >> post >> bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so >> they >> can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you >> aren't >> sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the >> moderators >> privately. These are just my suggestions. >> Arielle >> >> On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l > wrote: >> Mary and all, >> >> This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been >> brought up. >> >> People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >> opportunity to be >> inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >> which suspended >> or banned people from list for violations. >> >> I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >> and I never >> did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >> are not >> relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >> have been >> banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have >> the chance >> to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >> moderators. >> >> Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >> enough that they >> don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. >> >> One much example are the periodic announcements from David about >> internet >> radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >> the >> announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >> no stress. I'm >> sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >> member's >> self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. >> >> I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about >> others, or >> messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >> sensitive topics. >> >> We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >> stay on topic, >> and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. >> >> Antonio >> >> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> > wrote: >> >> Good evening all, >> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >> lack >> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >> the >> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >> be a >> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >> parents >> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >> means that >> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >> anyone, >> conducts a Google search. >> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >> which >> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >> contact them >> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >> forth, >> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >> others. >> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >> list >> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >> about >> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >> I'm >> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >> polite and >> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >> strong >> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >> email >> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> >> Thank you, >> Sincerely, >> Your list moderator, >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> them >> feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >> izon.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> t104%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 16:32:15 2014 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:32:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20140816101349.0d63e268@comcast.net> Message-ID: <00d001cfbb01$f9857c30$ec907490$@gmail.com> Thank you for writing this! Sean -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman via nabs-l Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:46 PM To: Robin; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners Hi all, I want to start by summarizing how the list moderators and administrator currently handle things. If somebody is being disrespectful or posting content that's inappropriate for the list, they are typically warned first. If the behavior continues, the individual may be placed on "moderated status" in which Dave Andrews or another list admin must approve everything that person posts before it appears on list. This is usually done only for a month or two as it creates a huge burden of work for the admins. In extreme cases, offending individuals are banned from the list. I know Dave does not like to do this often, and if somebody is very determined, it is not hard to create a new email address and re-join. So there is only so much the moderators can do and there is really very little that moderators can do to stop off-list communications. I think that whenever someone joins a public email list, they incur a risk of being sent unsolicited emails off-list. That is just a risk we all take. It is important to take precautions so that email harassment, which is relatively harmless, doesn't turn into something more serious. For example, it is wise to avoid disclosing your phone number or any secure information, like your birthdate, on list or to anyone you don't know and feel comfortable with. This is especially important for list members under 18. But honestly, the best defense against annoying or harassing emails is just to ask the person to stop and then delete or ignore any further communications. In my 15 years of listserv activity, I've received my fair share of unwanted emails and Facebook flirtations, and simply ignoring them was always an adequate solution. Best, Arielle On 8/16/14, Robin via nabs-l wrote: > I suggest people, who have been contacted OffList, and were offended > by what they perceived as "inappropriate" send and/or forward those > EMAILS to the NABS List Moderator(s), and they can take whatever > action they deem appropriate. > > Personally, I think there is a distinction between people, who contact > others OffList, with what is perceived as "inappropriate" and those > who contact people OffList with "invitations" to > FaceBook/Linkedin-Twitter or some other type of Social Networking > site. This is only my humble opinion. > > I also suggest ideas of "policing" the NABS List be taken OffList as > well, and when the NABS List Moderator(s) have made their decision on > how to rectify this situation so as not to have it occur in the future > or reduce the likelihood that it will occur in the future, they then > send their decision/recommendation to the NABS List. > > At 09:09 AM 8/16/2014, you wrote: >>Also, just because the guy harassed Helga off-list and she replied >>on-list, that doesn't take him out of the wrong or shift the blame for >>what he did onto her. That was precisely why I expressed a desire to >>have something put in place to avoid off-list issues like that, >>because it is a problem. For all I know guys might not get the creepy >>emails from repeat offenders and might not even have realized it was >>happening, but that doesn't mean that since it isn't a problem for >>you, it isn't a problem for others. Delete what you don't want to see >>is all well and good for things like self promos which are harmless, >>but when they cross a line we need to do something about them. Same >>for blocking. Individuals can block the creepy email senders all they >>want, but the person behind the issue isn't going to stop finding new >>people to try sending stuff to unless there are consequences for them. >> >>Furthermore, this is a perfect example of handling disagreement. If >>you don't think this is an issue that needs policing or don't like the >>suggestions others have proffered, you can choose whether or not to >>get involved in the thread. You are certainly free to have your >>oppinions, but I took your last message as a negative slam of sorts >>against people who feel there are major issues with conduct on the >>list, and the suggestions they are just kicking around to see what >>might come of them. Perhaps I read it the wrong way since we're >>working through text alone here, but that's just the vibe I got. Case >>and point why such an internet etiquette forum or something might be >>useful, as tone in text verses spoken word was one of the proposed >>topics for such a talk. Maybe it would only attract those who are >>already cognicent of courtesy on the list, but obviously both of us >>cared enough to jump in on this thread and got very different ideas of >>how the previous posts were intended to sound. >> >>On 8/16/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >> > I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a >> > sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys doing >> > things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It is our >> > responsibility as members of this list and the responsibility of >> > the moderators to ensure that this is a safe place where people can >> > post without being harassed. Maybe we can't get rid of this sort >> > of thing completely, but that's no reason to tolerate this when >> > it's brought to our attention. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" > > To: Kaiti Shelton , National >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list > > sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> > >> > Hello: >> > I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy asked >> > her bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not >> > appropriate, but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what >> > you don't want. >> > >> > Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks like >> > it's a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending >> > any girl with an email address, but usually what happens is they >> > reply, then they say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, >> > everyone gets invitations. whether or not the person ment to send >> > them. >> > >> > I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to go, >> > just send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, >> > just send it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. >> > Confirence calls, classes, talks, required agreements and the like >> > are just going to be ignored by those who don't care and >> > acknowledged for those who already acknowledge them. Forcing >> > someone to say "I agree" to the rules is just forcing them to go >> > through another step to register and they can still say "hey, I >> > didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a bit of extra >> > work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this option. You >> > do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome >> > letters, at which point you could include rules, then failure to >> > follow them can be the same results as not following the rules you >> > have to click a button to agree, whatever that may be. >> > >> > I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats on >> > and off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just >> > block them or hit delete on their messages. >> > On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: >> > It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of >> > people taking advantage of the fact that other list members can't >> > necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted >> > attention off-list. I know policing such matters is impractical, >> > but it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know >> > practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back on >> > Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a connection >> > or in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random >> > emails to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I >> > think people would be less likely to jump the gun when >> > inappropriate behavior happens on list and more apt to handle it >> > appropriately if things like this didn't happen, as I know they >> > happen to a fair number of people on the list. Would it be too >> > much to put a guideline in which says something about how >> > permission should be gained before sending a messages of a >> > personal nature off list, or please don't friend someone on other >> > social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to be >> > friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette guidelines, >> > there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this behavior >> > is due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and >> > the person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to >> > properly correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. >> > >> > The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done >> > without severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the >> > last few years I've gotten some very nice emails from people who >> > wanted to respond to something I said privately, to give an honest >> > opinion that they were too shy to put on the list for the very >> > reason that they thought they would meet resistance or >> > disapproval, or people who noticed things like my major and were >> > curious for information. I wouldn't want to stifle any of these >> > things and have actually made some good friends through some of >> > these conversations which happened thanks to the NABS list, but it >> > is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when some random >> > guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on different social >> > media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check or >> > didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really >> > didn't need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm >> > either not checking my account, am only still receiving their >> > invitations because I haven't figured out how to block them on a >> > site I never use, or am not interested in adding a stranger to see >> > my personal information. I think that is a huge problem we have >> > with the list, and especially puts a lot of the girls on here into >> > a tricky spot because since this is all electronic, to engage by >> > telling the person to leave you alone gives them what they want. >> > I used the delete key a lot for dealing with these kinds of >> > messages, but found with some the emails just keep coming even >> > after 2 years of membership on the list. >> > >> > On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> > I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet >> > etiquette, but my concern is that only those who abide by the >> > rules already will care to show up. It could be very effective, >> > but my gut just tells me that it would be like preaching to the >> > choir. Unfortunately, calling individuals out who have >> > consistently demonstrated some of the negative or disrespectful >> > behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is probably not the way >> > to go either, unless done so by list moderators like Mary and >> > Dave. >> > >> > I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it >> > would be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I >> > like the idea of having the rules set up on a screen after >> > subscribers complete the initial form, and am a huge fan of using >> > I agree or I don't Agree buttons to finish the subscription >> > process if it is feasible. I think that would make it much harder >> > for people to just say they were ignorant of the rules because >> > they never cared to look for them. >> > Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we >> > can say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had >> > an equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion >> > that when you join a list it's your responsibility to use common >> > etiquette and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're >> > already all equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the >> > list operates that way and that's why we're having this problem to >> > begin with. >> > >> > Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go >> > and to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about >> > deleting a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal >> > promotion stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't >> > necessarily read what the promos say, I respect what the person >> > making them is doing and their right to do it on a forum such as >> > NABS. After all, if you're doing something geared toward blind >> > teens and young adults, it's logical to use NABS as a sounding >> > board to gather interested parties. >> > >> > There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I >> > believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say, >> > don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide >> > by this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently >> > respond negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate >> > emails on list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to >> > continue the inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), >> > are mostly repeat offenders who have left clear patterns of >> > behavior behind in their emails. I'm not saying we should jump >> > the gun and kick those people off, but we definitely know where to >> > start and who to keep an eye on for these problems based on the >> > past, if only we had a method for doing so. >> > >> > On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > >> > I agree with everything that's been said so far. >> > >> > I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >> > often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >> > 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >> > registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >> > once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be aware >> > of the rules and think about what they've done if they have caused >> > trouble on here. >> > Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they >> > submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >> > guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >> > would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >> > accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >> > chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on >> > "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. >> > >> > About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >> > discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >> > insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >> > discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >> > talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts to >> > get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. >> > >> > These are just my thoughts. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Sami. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l > > To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list > > sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> > >> > I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >> > if folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A >> > single off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a >> > huge thread of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus >> > rewarding someone who might be making an obnoxious post to glean >> > attention. If a post bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing >> > Mary and Dave Andrews so they can handle the offense and then >> > quietly letting it go. If you aren't sure whether a message you >> > see is inappropriate, ask the moderators privately. These are >> > just my suggestions. >> > Arielle >> > >> > On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l > > wrote: >> > Mary and all, >> > >> > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been >> > brought up. >> > >> > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >> > opportunity to be >> > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >> > which suspended >> > or banned people from list for violations. >> > >> > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >> > and I never >> > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >> > are not >> > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >> > have been >> > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have >> > the chance >> > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >> > moderators. >> > >> > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >> > enough that they >> > don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. >> > >> > One much example are the periodic announcements from David about >> > internet >> > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >> > the >> > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >> > no stress. I'm >> > sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >> > member's >> > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. >> > >> > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about >> > others, or >> > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >> > sensitive topics. >> > >> > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >> > stay on topic, >> > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. >> > >> > Antonio >> > >> > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> > > > wrote: >> > >> > Good evening all, >> > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >> > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >> > lack >> > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >> > the >> > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >> > be a >> > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >> > parents >> > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >> > means that >> > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >> > anyone, >> > conducts a Google search. >> > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >> > which >> > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >> > contact them >> > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >> > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >> > forth, >> > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >> > others. >> > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >> > list >> > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >> > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >> > about >> > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >> > I'm >> > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >> > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >> > polite and >> > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >> > strong >> > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >> > email >> > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >> > >> > Thank you, >> > Sincerely, >> > Your list moderator, >> > >> > -- >> > Mary Fernandez >> > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> > them >> > feel." >> > -- >> > Maya Angelou >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >> > 0gmail.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> > mail.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for nabs-l: >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >> > izon.net >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >> > t104%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Kaiti >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Take care, >> > Ty >> > http://tds-solutions.net >> > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >> > fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >> > il.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> %40gmail.com >> > >> >> >>-- >>Kaiti >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40com >>cast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/smwhalenpsp%40gmail.com From kmaent1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 16:38:33 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:38:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] getting employed Message-ID: <53f22c15.0b11330a.6636.ffffae3e@mx.google.com> Well those and jobs that require checking people's ID's, i.e. any job where someone might try to pay you with a credit card. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bridget Walker via nabs-l ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Hi all I been wanting to get employed and things but anyway i went into meet with the job developer or just to meet him and discuss things. the primary thing he asked me was what jobs do blind people do. that was the question that came up. i did not answer that he really didn't give me much chance to talk much and things though what jobs do blind people how would have you guys answered him if you were in my shoes. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalke r13%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma il.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 16:45:54 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:45:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: <00d001cfbb01$f9857c30$ec907490$@gmail.com> References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20140816101349.0d63e268@comcast.net> <00d001cfbb01$f9857c30$ec907490$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm doing pretty good. A bit crazy at work, we just had trial last week, my last trial before leaving the profession you know... We have another few hours on the 26ths. And I'm also planning my next steps moving out, seeing where I'm going next, and such. You may be one of the few people who haven't heard yet, but I'm leaving BGL on the 26th of next month. I told Dan and I'm getting all kinds of randoms saying, oh, I heard you left, or are leaving etc... That man rivals the NY Times... You are a positive globe trotter. How was your Nicaragua experience? What was most striking to you? Most fun? Least fun? Did you wind up going to Costa Rica too? Any why all the state side travel if I may be so nosy? Anyway, best to you. And lets seriously get this call done asap. Just a heads up, I won't be moderating for much longer, you need to find someone new, and preferably two people to help keep up with all the traffic. Mary F On 8/18/14, Sean Whalen via nabs-l wrote: > Thank you for writing this! > > Sean > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman via nabs-l > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:46 PM > To: Robin; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners > > Hi all, > > I want to start by summarizing how the list moderators and administrator > currently handle things. If somebody is being disrespectful or posting > content that's inappropriate for the list, they are typically warned first. > If the behavior continues, the individual may be placed on "moderated > status" in which Dave Andrews or another list admin must approve everything > that person posts before it appears on list. This is usually done only for > a > month or two as it creates a huge burden of work for the admins. In extreme > cases, offending individuals are banned from the list. I know Dave does not > like to do this often, and if somebody is very determined, it is not hard > to > create a new email address and re-join. So there is only so much the > moderators can do and there is really very little that moderators can do to > stop off-list communications. > I think that whenever someone joins a public email list, they incur a risk > of being sent unsolicited emails off-list. That is just a risk we all take. > It is important to take precautions so that email harassment, which is > relatively harmless, doesn't turn into something more serious. For example, > it is wise to avoid disclosing your phone number or any secure information, > like your birthdate, on list or to anyone you don't know and feel > comfortable with. This is especially important for list members under 18. > But honestly, the best defense against annoying or harassing emails is just > to ask the person to stop and then delete or ignore any further > communications. In my 15 years of listserv activity, I've received my fair > share of unwanted emails and Facebook flirtations, and simply ignoring them > was always an adequate solution. > > Best, > Arielle > > On 8/16/14, Robin via nabs-l wrote: >> I suggest people, who have been contacted OffList, and were offended >> by what they perceived as "inappropriate" send and/or forward those >> EMAILS to the NABS List Moderator(s), and they can take whatever >> action they deem appropriate. >> >> Personally, I think there is a distinction between people, who contact >> others OffList, with what is perceived as "inappropriate" and those >> who contact people OffList with "invitations" to >> FaceBook/Linkedin-Twitter or some other type of Social Networking >> site. This is only my humble opinion. >> >> I also suggest ideas of "policing" the NABS List be taken OffList as >> well, and when the NABS List Moderator(s) have made their decision on >> how to rectify this situation so as not to have it occur in the future >> or reduce the likelihood that it will occur in the future, they then >> send their decision/recommendation to the NABS List. >> >> At 09:09 AM 8/16/2014, you wrote: >>>Also, just because the guy harassed Helga off-list and she replied >>>on-list, that doesn't take him out of the wrong or shift the blame for >>>what he did onto her. That was precisely why I expressed a desire to >>>have something put in place to avoid off-list issues like that, >>>because it is a problem. For all I know guys might not get the creepy >>>emails from repeat offenders and might not even have realized it was >>>happening, but that doesn't mean that since it isn't a problem for >>>you, it isn't a problem for others. Delete what you don't want to see >>>is all well and good for things like self promos which are harmless, >>>but when they cross a line we need to do something about them. Same >>>for blocking. Individuals can block the creepy email senders all they >>>want, but the person behind the issue isn't going to stop finding new >>>people to try sending stuff to unless there are consequences for them. >>> >>>Furthermore, this is a perfect example of handling disagreement. If >>>you don't think this is an issue that needs policing or don't like the >>>suggestions others have proffered, you can choose whether or not to >>>get involved in the thread. You are certainly free to have your >>>oppinions, but I took your last message as a negative slam of sorts >>>against people who feel there are major issues with conduct on the >>>list, and the suggestions they are just kicking around to see what >>>might come of them. Perhaps I read it the wrong way since we're >>>working through text alone here, but that's just the vibe I got. Case >>>and point why such an internet etiquette forum or something might be >>>useful, as tone in text verses spoken word was one of the proposed >>>topics for such a talk. Maybe it would only attract those who are >>>already cognicent of courtesy on the list, but obviously both of us >>>cared enough to jump in on this thread and got very different ideas of >>>how the previous posts were intended to sound. >>> >>>On 8/16/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >>> > I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a >>> > sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys doing >>> > things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It is our >>> > responsibility as members of this list and the responsibility of >>> > the moderators to ensure that this is a safe place where people can >>> > post without being harassed. Maybe we can't get rid of this sort >>> > of thing completely, but that's no reason to tolerate this when >>> > it's brought to our attention. >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" >> > To: Kaiti Shelton , National >>> > Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >>> > >>> > Hello: >>> > I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy asked >>> > her bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not >>> > appropriate, but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what >>> > you don't want. >>> > >>> > Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks like >>> > it's a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending >>> > any girl with an email address, but usually what happens is they >>> > reply, then they say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, >>> > everyone gets invitations. whether or not the person ment to send >>> > them. >>> > >>> > I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to go, >>> > just send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, >>> > just send it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. >>> > Confirence calls, classes, talks, required agreements and the like >>> > are just going to be ignored by those who don't care and >>> > acknowledged for those who already acknowledge them. Forcing >>> > someone to say "I agree" to the rules is just forcing them to go >>> > through another step to register and they can still say "hey, I >>> > didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a bit of extra >>> > work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this option. You >>> > do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome >>> > letters, at which point you could include rules, then failure to >>> > follow them can be the same results as not following the rules you >>> > have to click a button to agree, whatever that may be. >>> > >>> > I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats on >>> > and off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just >>> > block them or hit delete on their messages. >>> > On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: >>> > It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of >>> > people taking advantage of the fact that other list members can't >>> > necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted >>> > attention off-list. I know policing such matters is impractical, >>> > but it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know >>> > practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back on >>> > Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a connection >>> > or in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random >>> > emails to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I >>> > think people would be less likely to jump the gun when >>> > inappropriate behavior happens on list and more apt to handle it >>> > appropriately if things like this didn't happen, as I know they >>> > happen to a fair number of people on the list. Would it be too >>> > much to put a guideline in which says something about how >>> > permission should be gained before sending a messages of a >>> > personal nature off list, or please don't friend someone on other >>> > social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to be >>> > friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette guidelines, >>> > there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this behavior >>> > is due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and >>> > the person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to >>> > properly correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. >>> > >>> > The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done >>> > without severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the >>> > last few years I've gotten some very nice emails from people who >>> > wanted to respond to something I said privately, to give an honest >>> > opinion that they were too shy to put on the list for the very >>> > reason that they thought they would meet resistance or >>> > disapproval, or people who noticed things like my major and were >>> > curious for information. I wouldn't want to stifle any of these >>> > things and have actually made some good friends through some of >>> > these conversations which happened thanks to the NABS list, but it >>> > is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when some random >>> > guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on different social >>> > media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check or >>> > didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really >>> > didn't need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm >>> > either not checking my account, am only still receiving their >>> > invitations because I haven't figured out how to block them on a >>> > site I never use, or am not interested in adding a stranger to see >>> > my personal information. I think that is a huge problem we have >>> > with the list, and especially puts a lot of the girls on here into >>> > a tricky spot because since this is all electronic, to engage by >>> > telling the person to leave you alone gives them what they want. >>> > I used the delete key a lot for dealing with these kinds of >>> > messages, but found with some the emails just keep coming even >>> > after 2 years of membership on the list. >>> > >>> > On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> > I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet >>> > etiquette, but my concern is that only those who abide by the >>> > rules already will care to show up. It could be very effective, >>> > but my gut just tells me that it would be like preaching to the >>> > choir. Unfortunately, calling individuals out who have >>> > consistently demonstrated some of the negative or disrespectful >>> > behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is probably not the way >>> > to go either, unless done so by list moderators like Mary and >>> > Dave. >>> > >>> > I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it >>> > would be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I >>> > like the idea of having the rules set up on a screen after >>> > subscribers complete the initial form, and am a huge fan of using >>> > I agree or I don't Agree buttons to finish the subscription >>> > process if it is feasible. I think that would make it much harder >>> > for people to just say they were ignorant of the rules because >>> > they never cared to look for them. >>> > Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we >>> > can say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had >>> > an equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion >>> > that when you join a list it's your responsibility to use common >>> > etiquette and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're >>> > already all equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the >>> > list operates that way and that's why we're having this problem to >>> > begin with. >>> > >>> > Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go >>> > and to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about >>> > deleting a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal >>> > promotion stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't >>> > necessarily read what the promos say, I respect what the person >>> > making them is doing and their right to do it on a forum such as >>> > NABS. After all, if you're doing something geared toward blind >>> > teens and young adults, it's logical to use NABS as a sounding >>> > board to gather interested parties. >>> > >>> > There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I >>> > believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say, >>> > don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide >>> > by this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently >>> > respond negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate >>> > emails on list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to >>> > continue the inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), >>> > are mostly repeat offenders who have left clear patterns of >>> > behavior behind in their emails. I'm not saying we should jump >>> > the gun and kick those people off, but we definitely know where to >>> > start and who to keep an eye on for these problems based on the >>> > past, if only we had a method for doing so. >>> > >>> > On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >>> > Hi all, >>> > >>> > I agree with everything that's been said so far. >>> > >>> > I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >>> > often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >>> > 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >>> > registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >>> > once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be aware >>> > of the rules and think about what they've done if they have caused >>> > trouble on here. >>> > Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they >>> > submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >>> > guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >>> > would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >>> > accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >>> > chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on >>> > "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. >>> > >>> > About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >>> > discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >>> > insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >>> > discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >>> > talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts to >>> > get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. >>> > >>> > These are just my thoughts. >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > Sami. >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >> > To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >>> > Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >>> > >>> > I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >>> > if folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A >>> > single off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a >>> > huge thread of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus >>> > rewarding someone who might be making an obnoxious post to glean >>> > attention. If a post bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing >>> > Mary and Dave Andrews so they can handle the offense and then >>> > quietly letting it go. If you aren't sure whether a message you >>> > see is inappropriate, ask the moderators privately. These are >>> > just my suggestions. >>> > Arielle >>> > >>> > On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l >> > wrote: >>> > Mary and all, >>> > >>> > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been >>> > brought up. >>> > >>> > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >>> > opportunity to be >>> > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >>> > which suspended >>> > or banned people from list for violations. >>> > >>> > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >>> > and I never >>> > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >>> > are not >>> > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >>> > have been >>> > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have >>> > the chance >>> > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >>> > moderators. >>> > >>> > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >>> > enough that they >>> > don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. >>> > >>> > One much example are the periodic announcements from David about >>> > internet >>> > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >>> > the >>> > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >>> > no stress. I'm >>> > sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >>> > member's >>> > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. >>> > >>> > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about >>> > others, or >>> > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >>> > sensitive topics. >>> > >>> > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >>> > stay on topic, >>> > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. >>> > >>> > Antonio >>> > >>> > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >>> > >> > wrote: >>> > >>> > Good evening all, >>> > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >>> > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >>> > lack >>> > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >>> > the >>> > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >>> > be a >>> > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >>> > parents >>> > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >>> > means that >>> > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >>> > anyone, >>> > conducts a Google search. >>> > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >>> > which >>> > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >>> > contact them >>> > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >>> > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >>> > forth, >>> > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >>> > others. >>> > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >>> > list >>> > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >>> > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >>> > about >>> > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >>> > I'm >>> > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >>> > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >>> > polite and >>> > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >>> > strong >>> > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >>> > email >>> > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >>> > >>> > Thank you, >>> > Sincerely, >>> > Your list moderator, >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Mary Fernandez >>> > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >>> > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >>> > them >>> > feel." >>> > -- >>> > Maya Angelou >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> > info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >>> > 0gmail.com >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> > info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> > mail.com >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> > for nabs-l: >>> > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >>> > izon.net >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> > for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >>> > t104%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Kaiti >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Take care, >>> > Ty >>> > http://tds-solutions.net >>> > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>> > fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> > for nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >>> > il.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> > for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> %40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Kaiti >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40com >>>cast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/smwhalenpsp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From trillian551 at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 16:55:12 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:55:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners In-Reply-To: References: <53ef7693.e949320a.242c.ffffbd07@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20140816101349.0d63e268@comcast.net> <00d001cfbb01$f9857c30$ec907490$@gmail.com> Message-ID: All, I apologize, the last message was meeant for one person and not the entire list. Thanks Mary F On 8/18/14, Mary Fernandez wrote: > I'm doing pretty good. A bit crazy at work, we just had trial last > week, my last trial before leaving the profession you know... We have > another few hours on the 26ths. And I'm also planning my next steps > moving out, seeing where I'm going next, and such. You may be one of > the few people who haven't heard yet, but I'm leaving BGL on the 26th > of next month. I told Dan and I'm getting all kinds of randoms saying, > oh, I heard you left, or are leaving etc... That man rivals the NY > Times... > > You are a positive globe trotter. How was your Nicaragua experience? > What was most striking to you? Most fun? Least fun? Did you wind up > going to Costa Rica too? > Any why all the state side travel if I may be so nosy? > Anyway, best to you. > And lets seriously get this call done asap. Just a heads up, I won't > be moderating for much longer, you need to find someone new, and > preferably two people to help keep up with all the traffic. > Mary F > > On 8/18/14, Sean Whalen via nabs-l wrote: >> Thank you for writing this! >> >> Sean >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> Silverman via nabs-l >> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:46 PM >> To: Robin; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >> >> Hi all, >> >> I want to start by summarizing how the list moderators and administrator >> currently handle things. If somebody is being disrespectful or posting >> content that's inappropriate for the list, they are typically warned >> first. >> If the behavior continues, the individual may be placed on "moderated >> status" in which Dave Andrews or another list admin must approve >> everything >> that person posts before it appears on list. This is usually done only >> for >> a >> month or two as it creates a huge burden of work for the admins. In >> extreme >> cases, offending individuals are banned from the list. I know Dave does >> not >> like to do this often, and if somebody is very determined, it is not hard >> to >> create a new email address and re-join. So there is only so much the >> moderators can do and there is really very little that moderators can do >> to >> stop off-list communications. >> I think that whenever someone joins a public email list, they incur a >> risk >> of being sent unsolicited emails off-list. That is just a risk we all >> take. >> It is important to take precautions so that email harassment, which is >> relatively harmless, doesn't turn into something more serious. For >> example, >> it is wise to avoid disclosing your phone number or any secure >> information, >> like your birthdate, on list or to anyone you don't know and feel >> comfortable with. This is especially important for list members under 18. >> But honestly, the best defense against annoying or harassing emails is >> just >> to ask the person to stop and then delete or ignore any further >> communications. In my 15 years of listserv activity, I've received my >> fair >> share of unwanted emails and Facebook flirtations, and simply ignoring >> them >> was always an adequate solution. >> >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 8/16/14, Robin via nabs-l wrote: >>> I suggest people, who have been contacted OffList, and were offended >>> by what they perceived as "inappropriate" send and/or forward those >>> EMAILS to the NABS List Moderator(s), and they can take whatever >>> action they deem appropriate. >>> >>> Personally, I think there is a distinction between people, who contact >>> others OffList, with what is perceived as "inappropriate" and those >>> who contact people OffList with "invitations" to >>> FaceBook/Linkedin-Twitter or some other type of Social Networking >>> site. This is only my humble opinion. >>> >>> I also suggest ideas of "policing" the NABS List be taken OffList as >>> well, and when the NABS List Moderator(s) have made their decision on >>> how to rectify this situation so as not to have it occur in the future >>> or reduce the likelihood that it will occur in the future, they then >>> send their decision/recommendation to the NABS List. >>> >>> At 09:09 AM 8/16/2014, you wrote: >>>>Also, just because the guy harassed Helga off-list and she replied >>>>on-list, that doesn't take him out of the wrong or shift the blame for >>>>what he did onto her. That was precisely why I expressed a desire to >>>>have something put in place to avoid off-list issues like that, >>>>because it is a problem. For all I know guys might not get the creepy >>>>emails from repeat offenders and might not even have realized it was >>>>happening, but that doesn't mean that since it isn't a problem for >>>>you, it isn't a problem for others. Delete what you don't want to see >>>>is all well and good for things like self promos which are harmless, >>>>but when they cross a line we need to do something about them. Same >>>>for blocking. Individuals can block the creepy email senders all they >>>>want, but the person behind the issue isn't going to stop finding new >>>>people to try sending stuff to unless there are consequences for them. >>>> >>>>Furthermore, this is a perfect example of handling disagreement. If >>>>you don't think this is an issue that needs policing or don't like the >>>>suggestions others have proffered, you can choose whether or not to >>>>get involved in the thread. You are certainly free to have your >>>>oppinions, but I took your last message as a negative slam of sorts >>>>against people who feel there are major issues with conduct on the >>>>list, and the suggestions they are just kicking around to see what >>>>might come of them. Perhaps I read it the wrong way since we're >>>>working through text alone here, but that's just the vibe I got. Case >>>>and point why such an internet etiquette forum or something might be >>>>useful, as tone in text verses spoken word was one of the proposed >>>>topics for such a talk. Maybe it would only attract those who are >>>>already cognicent of courtesy on the list, but obviously both of us >>>>cared enough to jump in on this thread and got very different ideas of >>>>how the previous posts were intended to sound. >>>> >>>>On 8/16/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >>>> > I really don't think that "just delete what you don't want" is a >>>> > sufficient response to women being sexually harassed by guys doing >>>> > things like trying to trade tech help for a bra size. It is our >>>> > responsibility as members of this list and the responsibility of >>>> > the moderators to ensure that this is a safe place where people can >>>> > post without being harassed. Maybe we can't get rid of this sort >>>> > of thing completely, but that's no reason to tolerate this when >>>> > it's brought to our attention. >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" >>> > To: Kaiti Shelton , National >>>> > Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:21:45 -0400 >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >>>> > >>>> > Hello: >>>> > I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy asked >>>> > her bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not >>>> > appropriate, but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what >>>> > you don't want. >>>> > >>>> > Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks like >>>> > it's a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending >>>> > any girl with an email address, but usually what happens is they >>>> > reply, then they say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, >>>> > everyone gets invitations. whether or not the person ment to send >>>> > them. >>>> > >>>> > I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to go, >>>> > just send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, >>>> > just send it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. >>>> > Confirence calls, classes, talks, required agreements and the like >>>> > are just going to be ignored by those who don't care and >>>> > acknowledged for those who already acknowledge them. Forcing >>>> > someone to say "I agree" to the rules is just forcing them to go >>>> > through another step to register and they can still say "hey, I >>>> > didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a bit of extra >>>> > work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this option. You >>>> > do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome >>>> > letters, at which point you could include rules, then failure to >>>> > follow them can be the same results as not following the rules you >>>> > have to click a button to agree, whatever that may be. >>>> > >>>> > I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats on >>>> > and off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just >>>> > block them or hit delete on their messages. >>>> > On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: >>>> > It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of >>>> > people taking advantage of the fact that other list members can't >>>> > necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted >>>> > attention off-list. I know policing such matters is impractical, >>>> > but it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know >>>> > practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back on >>>> > Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a connection >>>> > or in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random >>>> > emails to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I >>>> > think people would be less likely to jump the gun when >>>> > inappropriate behavior happens on list and more apt to handle it >>>> > appropriately if things like this didn't happen, as I know they >>>> > happen to a fair number of people on the list. Would it be too >>>> > much to put a guideline in which says something about how >>>> > permission should be gained before sending a messages of a >>>> > personal nature off list, or please don't friend someone on other >>>> > social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to be >>>> > friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette guidelines, >>>> > there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this behavior >>>> > is due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and >>>> > the person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to >>>> > properly correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing. >>>> > >>>> > The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done >>>> > without severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the >>>> > last few years I've gotten some very nice emails from people who >>>> > wanted to respond to something I said privately, to give an honest >>>> > opinion that they were too shy to put on the list for the very >>>> > reason that they thought they would meet resistance or >>>> > disapproval, or people who noticed things like my major and were >>>> > curious for information. I wouldn't want to stifle any of these >>>> > things and have actually made some good friends through some of >>>> > these conversations which happened thanks to the NABS list, but it >>>> > is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when some random >>>> > guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on different social >>>> > media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check or >>>> > didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really >>>> > didn't need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm >>>> > either not checking my account, am only still receiving their >>>> > invitations because I haven't figured out how to block them on a >>>> > site I never use, or am not interested in adding a stranger to see >>>> > my personal information. I think that is a huge problem we have >>>> > with the list, and especially puts a lot of the girls on here into >>>> > a tricky spot because since this is all electronic, to engage by >>>> > telling the person to leave you alone gives them what they want. >>>> > I used the delete key a lot for dealing with these kinds of >>>> > messages, but found with some the emails just keep coming even >>>> > after 2 years of membership on the list. >>>> > >>>> > On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> > I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet >>>> > etiquette, but my concern is that only those who abide by the >>>> > rules already will care to show up. It could be very effective, >>>> > but my gut just tells me that it would be like preaching to the >>>> > choir. Unfortunately, calling individuals out who have >>>> > consistently demonstrated some of the negative or disrespectful >>>> > behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is probably not the way >>>> > to go either, unless done so by list moderators like Mary and >>>> > Dave. >>>> > >>>> > I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it >>>> > would be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I >>>> > like the idea of having the rules set up on a screen after >>>> > subscribers complete the initial form, and am a huge fan of using >>>> > I agree or I don't Agree buttons to finish the subscription >>>> > process if it is feasible. I think that would make it much harder >>>> > for people to just say they were ignorant of the rules because >>>> > they never cared to look for them. >>>> > Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we >>>> > can say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had >>>> > an equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion >>>> > that when you join a list it's your responsibility to use common >>>> > etiquette and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're >>>> > already all equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the >>>> > list operates that way and that's why we're having this problem to >>>> > begin with. >>>> > >>>> > Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go >>>> > and to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about >>>> > deleting a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal >>>> > promotion stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't >>>> > necessarily read what the promos say, I respect what the person >>>> > making them is doing and their right to do it on a forum such as >>>> > NABS. After all, if you're doing something geared toward blind >>>> > teens and young adults, it's logical to use NABS as a sounding >>>> > board to gather interested parties. >>>> > >>>> > There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I >>>> > believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say, >>>> > don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide >>>> > by this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently >>>> > respond negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate >>>> > emails on list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to >>>> > continue the inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), >>>> > are mostly repeat offenders who have left clear patterns of >>>> > behavior behind in their emails. I'm not saying we should jump >>>> > the gun and kick those people off, but we definitely know where to >>>> > start and who to keep an eye on for these problems based on the >>>> > past, if only we had a method for doing so. >>>> > >>>> > On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l wrote: >>>> > Hi all, >>>> > >>>> > I agree with everything that's been said so far. >>>> > >>>> > I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more >>>> > often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every >>>> > 6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've >>>> > registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted >>>> > once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be aware >>>> > of the rules and think about what they've done if they have caused >>>> > trouble on here. >>>> > Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they >>>> > submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the >>>> > guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person >>>> > would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they >>>> > accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second >>>> > chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on >>>> > "agree," then their subscription will not be taken. >>>> > >>>> > About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of >>>> > discussions are fine as long as people are not personally >>>> > insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a >>>> > discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and >>>> > talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts to >>>> > get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions. >>>> > >>>> > These are just my thoughts. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, >>>> > >>>> > Sami. >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l >>> > To: Antonio Guimaraes ,National >>>> > Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700 >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners >>>> > >>>> > I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice >>>> > if folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A >>>> > single off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a >>>> > huge thread of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus >>>> > rewarding someone who might be making an obnoxious post to glean >>>> > attention. If a post bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing >>>> > Mary and Dave Andrews so they can handle the offense and then >>>> > quietly letting it go. If you aren't sure whether a message you >>>> > see is inappropriate, ask the moderators privately. These are >>>> > just my suggestions. >>>> > Arielle >>>> > >>>> > On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l >>> > wrote: >>>> > Mary and all, >>>> > >>>> > This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been >>>> > brought up. >>>> > >>>> > People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the >>>> > opportunity to be >>>> > inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines >>>> > which suspended >>>> > or banned people from list for violations. >>>> > >>>> > I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists, >>>> > and I never >>>> > did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and >>>> > are not >>>> > relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could >>>> > have been >>>> > banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have >>>> > the chance >>>> > to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the >>>> > moderators. >>>> > >>>> > Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent >>>> > enough that they >>>> > don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on. >>>> > >>>> > One much example are the periodic announcements from David about >>>> > internet >>>> > radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide >>>> > the >>>> > announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with >>>> > no stress. I'm >>>> > sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a >>>> > member's >>>> > self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community. >>>> > >>>> > I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about >>>> > others, or >>>> > messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and >>>> > sensitive topics. >>>> > >>>> > We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly, >>>> > stay on topic, >>>> > and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not. >>>> > >>>> > Antonio >>>> > >>>> > On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >>>> > >>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Good evening all, >>>> > I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable. >>>> > I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or >>>> > lack >>>> > thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on >>>> > the >>>> > list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to >>>> > be a >>>> > resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals, >>>> > parents >>>> > and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which >>>> > means that >>>> > anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone, >>>> > anyone, >>>> > conducts a Google search. >>>> > When someone inquires about software, or help with anything, >>>> > which >>>> > relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you >>>> > contact them >>>> > off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that >>>> > person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and >>>> > forth, >>>> > for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards >>>> > others. >>>> > So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among >>>> > list >>>> > members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the >>>> > values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion >>>> > about >>>> > issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but >>>> > I'm >>>> > truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the >>>> > frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be >>>> > polite and >>>> > respectful when responding to this message, and if you have >>>> > strong >>>> > feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my >>>> > email >>>> > address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly. >>>> > >>>> > Thank you, >>>> > Sincerely, >>>> > Your list moderator, >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Mary Fernandez >>>> > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >>>> > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >>>> > them >>>> > feel." >>>> > -- >>>> > Maya Angelou >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> > info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >>>> > 0gmail.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> > info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> > mail.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> > for nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >>>> > izon.net >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> > for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine >>>> > t104%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Kaiti >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Take care, >>>> > Ty >>>> > http://tds-solutions.net >>>> > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>>> > fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> > for nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >>>> > il.com >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> > for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Kaiti >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40com >>>>cast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/smwhalenpsp%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From zmason.northwindsfarm at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 18:57:05 2014 From: zmason.northwindsfarm at gmail.com (Zach Mason) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 14:57:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Athen] Accessible Media Coordinator at Portland State University In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00f701cfbb16$368b7ee0$a3a27ca0$@gmail.com> I thought a recent graduate might be interested in this. Subject: [Athen] Accessible Media Coordinator at Portland State University Hi all- The Office of Academic Innovation at Portland State University is seeking to hire an accessible media coordinator. The Accessible Media Coordinator is part of the Faculty Support team and reports to the Associate Director of Faculty Support and Emerging Technology. This position will support PSU faculty at the OAI Faculty Support Desk with the successful application of accessible design principles to existing courses and course materials, and will act as a liaison with the Disability Resources Center and other campus partners with a responsibility towards equal access for all. If you or anyone you know might be a good fit for this position, please visit the listing here: https://jobs.hrc.pdx.edu/postings/13423 -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list From desai.siddhi14 at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 22:15:44 2014 From: desai.siddhi14 at gmail.com (siddhi desai) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 03:45:44 +0530 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability accommodation and international student Urgent help required Message-ID: Dear All, Do universities not provide accommodations to international students due to paucity of funds as international students are not covered under ADA? Sincerely Siddhi From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 22:19:13 2014 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 18:19:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability accommodation and international student Urgent help required In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7620FAE7-C74F-47FE-B5FD-52016209ABB7@gmail.com> Hello, The college must provide you with accommodations. As a student in the united states, you have the same rights and are entitled to the same accommodations as everyone else. Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association of blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 18, 2014, at 6:15 PM, siddhi desai via nabs-l wrote: > > Dear All, > > Do universities not provide accommodations to international students > due to paucity of funds as international students are not covered > under ADA? > > Sincerely > Siddhi > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From blacklotus86 at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 22:40:35 2014 From: blacklotus86 at gmail.com (Zeynep Yilmaz) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 17:40:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability accommodation and international student Urgent help required In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07308239-7124-4E60-BC6D-8C4529BE92C3@gmail.com> Hi, I had the same problem at first. Did any of the people from disability service say you anything regard to that? You have exactly same rights as other students with disabilities at your University. You can reach me off list, if you need any legal section from ADA or Some more idea how to handle that. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 18, 2014, at 5:15 PM, siddhi desai via nabs-l wrote: > > Dear All, > > Do universities not provide accommodations to international students > due to paucity of funds as international students are not covered > under ADA? > > Sincerely > Siddhi > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blacklotus86%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 01:06:02 2014 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 18:06:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The privilege of posting and the responsibility to those who read. Message-ID: <3ABF2F5A-5E83-40A5-A2B7-A3689051D85A@gmail.com> All: I have to say that I love the energy, thoughts ideas, and points of view that are shared on this list. I think that it is a privilege to have the opportunity to post not only on the NABS list but the various lists I am subscribed to on nfbnet.org, and I hope that you believe this to be the case as well. I know that I’m not going to post things that people are always going to agree with, nor am I going to read things that I am going to like or agree with. I do know I have a responsibility to be respectful of the points of view that are being shared, and of the people who post /read on this list. I have to try to remember that on this list are Parents of blind children, blind youth, people experiencing blindness for the first time in their lives, and a number of people who get an impression of me via this list, of nabs and of the National Federation of the Blind (of which I represent to others by virtue of posting on this list) If I am judgmental and harsh to someone, this might not make them feel welcome if I mention something of an adult nature, that parent might not want their child knowing much more of NABS, or any other part of the Federation. I know that I am not perfect, and I apologize if I have ever offended anyone by my words who is on this list or who has been, as this was never my intention, assuming I had done so to began with). My point is that we have the privilege of posting, the power to do good via mentoring and empowering on this list. We also have the responsibility of being professional enough that we can be a resource to students today, tomorrow and for years to come. I want you to help me be that resource and I will do my best to help you be the same. With love, Darian From sawhney.kartik at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 03:49:10 2014 From: sawhney.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Sawhney) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 09:19:10 +0530 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability accommodation and international student Urgent help required In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Siddhi, As rightly pointed out by others, you have the same rights and entitlements as American permanent residents or citizens when it comes to disability accommodations. The ADA covers everyone present in the United States, including international students and scholars. Further, most of the accommodations must be provided to you free of cost. However, there are a few things that you may have to pay for, such as O&M training (if you choose to go with one) and the purchase of assistive technology. Many of these services are provided to American citizens through the rehabilitation services, but are not available for international students. Many universities, however, choose to pay for these services too. Note that such is not the case in several other countries though. I have a friend who goes to school in the UK. He has to pay for disability accommodations. Best, -- -Kartik Sawhney, Cell: +1-(650) 492-3220 (US), +91-9958499435 (India) E-mail ID: sawhney.kartik at gmail.com, kartiks2 at stanford.edu Skype: kartik.sawhney22 On 8/19/14, siddhi desai via nabs-l wrote: > Dear All, > > Do universities not provide accommodations to international students > due to paucity of funds as international students are not covered > under ADA? > > Sincerely > Siddhi > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sawhney.kartik%40gmail.com > From blacklotus86 at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 04:53:31 2014 From: blacklotus86 at gmail.com (zeynep sule yilmaz) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 23:53:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Advice and Experiences on Studying Abroad In-Reply-To: <53f0898a.8288e00a.3146.2f4aSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <8D187BBE136ACF8-D94-31D5@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com> <53EFE53C.8070200@gmail.com> <53f0898a.8288e00a.3146.2f4aSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: My abroad experience has been in The US but I would be more than happy to answer specific questions that you have. You might wanna review their laws regarding guide dogs and accommodations for student with disabilities. Feel free to reach me off-list. Totally agree with Arielle’s suggestion to find a blind organization. I haven't known any blind individual or organization my first year in here and it would have been very very helpful. Thanks and good luck 2014-08-17 5:52 GMT-05:00, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l : > Good morning, Arielle, > > Wow! Australia? How fun for you. Have you any > stories about Aussie? Would love to study in Australia! > You oughta call, if you'd like. I'm in Berkeley California: cell: > 408-209-3239 > > r I would love to do that, too!06:54 PM 8/16/2014, you wrote: >>I studied in Australia for a semester. I know >>that's not one of the countries you mentioned, >>but I'm happy to answer general questions >>off-list. I do have one general tip which is to >>find out if there are any blindness >>organizations or services in the country you are >>visiting and check out what resources they have >>to offer. I'm really glad I connected with >>Vision Australia since they provided me >>orientation to campus and even let me borrow a >>book I needed for class in hard copy Braille! I >>also got to hang out with some young blind >>people in Australia which was fun. Personally I >>would feel a bit anxious about living in a >>country where I didn't speak or understand the >>language fluently, because I think that makes it >>hard to ask for information or directions when >>walking around. But I know other blind people >>who have done it successfully. Of course, if you >>are fluent in Spanish, this shouldn't be a >>problem. Best, Arielle On 8/16/14, Gerardo >>Corripio via nabs-l >>wrote: > Tips that might help, based on my >>experiences studying here in Mexico, > but it >>also applies to other Spanish-speaking >>countries: > 1.-Be very very comfortable with >>yourself and very vocal about speaking > for >>yourself in acomodations of books and other >>materials; like in the > States, there are >>good/willing professors, and others who don't >>care; > also if in the university or school >>(like with mine) they've never had a > blind >>student, they might be at a loss of how to >>acomodate certain > things. So speak up! > >>2.-Technology: Mek sure you take technology >>especially blindness-related > like notetakers >>etc., because almost all countries in >>Latinamerica, > don't loan technology as in the >>US; even worse, because here in > Latinamerica, >>blindness technology is so expensive, the >>culture of using > it, isn't wisespread; most >>blind people here in latinamerica, use > regular >>Laptops with Jaws or other screen readers >>installed. > 3.-Tell your library you're moving >>abroad: It sure feels lonely > sometimes being >>in another country! so from time to time, having >>an > English book to read, really makes you feel >>a lot better! Also some > books required might >>be available from Bard! American citizens >>living > abroad, remember, also get service! So >>tell your library of you're > studying abroad, >>and they'll transfer the services to the >>overseas > librarian. > 4.-Join Bookshare: For >>students, it's free, and it's always good to >>have > another source of books, right? > >>5.-Enjoy! Enjoy your studying abroad! you'll >>value things you took for > granted in the US! > >>Hope these tips help! > El 16/08/2014 05:52 >>p.m., Miso Kwak via nabs-l escribió: >> Hello, >>I am hoping to study abroad some time in my >>undergrad year. >> If anyone here on the list >>has an experience of studying in Spain, >> >>Argentina, England, and/or Scottland I would >>love to hear about your >> experiences. Also if >>anyone has any general tips specific to blind >> >>students on studying abroad I would appreciate >>it as well. >> Best, >> Miso Kwak >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com >> > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J >>Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki > >>Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México > >>RompiendoBarreras espacio de >>psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM > >>México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los >>esperamos! > > > >>_______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>get your account info for > nabs-l: > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blacklotus86%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 15:33:04 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:33:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read Message-ID: Good morning all, If you are a NABS List subscriber, I am expecting that you read this. In the very recent past, we've had some online discussion on the behavior taking place on the NABS list. Everyone is in agreement that things must change, however, even as this dialogue has proceeded, we have had a thread get completely out of control, and become harmful to individuals. This will not be tolerated. We will be revising the NABS list guidelines, in the meantime, there are a few things you must keep in mind when posting. 1. Use common sense. If you see that a thread is off topic, harmful, insulting, or otherwise digresses from the purpose of the list, which is to distribute information related to "blind students", then DO NOT respond. It is very simple. Off topic, means no response. If you have an issue with a thread, bring it to my attention immediately. 2. Topics not related to blind students are not appropriate topics. It doesn't matter if they are about self-promotion, movies, music, art, the theatre, or any other topic in this vast world, it isn't related to blindness, education and professionalism, it does not belong. 3. If Mary Fernandez, David Andrews, Sean Whalen, Arielle Silverman or any of the NABS board members asks that a thread stops. It must stop. Immediately. Read your latest message first, there is no excuse for responding to a thread that should have been stopped. We are very lenient and opened to all kinds of topics on this list, but these tangents simply cannot go on. If you have a problem with that, quite frankly, you can go create your own list and discuss topics as you wish. But not here. Everyone, we must keep this environment safe and respectful, and we are willing to take measures to do so. And if that means, that the list must be closed because it has become too much of a problem, and the negatives are outweighing the positives, then that's a possibility we will have to consider. I ask that each of you be responsible, if you are in doubt about something, you can email me about it, or simply not post it. The flow of ideas and thoughts should be free, but that's a privilege. Respect that privilege, and carefully think about what you are putting out into the world. The Internet gives a false sense of security, just because you are typing something in the privacy of your room, home, etc. doesn't mean that it isn't literally going out for the entire world to see. Think about that. Is this something you want the entire planet, which has an Internet connection to see? If you have any questions, email me at trillian551 at gmail.com Thank you -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From icdxpetras at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 15:48:53 2014 From: icdxpetras at gmail.com (petras) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:48:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read Message-ID: <53f37218.8367440a.5672.21d4@mx.google.com> What does it mean when the list would close? ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Fernandez via nabs-l References: <53f37218.8367440a.5672.21d4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <53F37285.2030409@tysdomain.com> Hello: it just means that it wouldn't exist any longer. It would go away, etc. I think that's the worst case scenario, hopefully after the admins start yelling at people for posting stuff they really shouldn't. On 8/19/2014 11:48 AM, petras via nabs-l wrote: > What does it mean when the list would close? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mary Fernandez via nabs-l To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:33:04 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read > > Good morning all, > If you are a NABS List subscriber, I am expecting that you read this. > In the very recent past, we've had some online discussion on the > behavior taking place on the NABS list. Everyone is in agreement that > things must change, however, even as this dialogue has proceeded, we > have had a thread get completely out of control, and become harmful to > individuals. This will not be tolerated. > We will be revising the NABS list guidelines, in the meantime, there > are a few things you must keep in mind when posting. > 1. Use common sense. If you see that a thread is off topic, harmful, > insulting, or otherwise digresses from the purpose of the list, which > is to distribute information related to "blind students", then DO NOT > respond. It is very simple. Off topic, means no response. If you have > an issue with a thread, bring it to my attention immediately. > 2. Topics not related to blind students are not appropriate > topics. It > doesn't matter if they are about self-promotion, movies, music, art, > the theatre, or any other topic in this vast world, it isn't related > to blindness, education and professionalism, it does not belong. > 3. If Mary Fernandez, David Andrews, Sean Whalen, Arielle Silverman or > any of the NABS board members asks that a thread stops. It must stop. > Immediately. Read your latest message first, there is no excuse for > responding to a thread that should have been stopped. > We are very lenient and opened to all kinds of topics on this list, > but these tangents simply cannot go on. If you have a problem with > that, quite frankly, you can go create your own list and discuss > topics as you wish. But not here. > Everyone, we must keep this environment safe and respectful, and we > are willing to take measures to do so. And if that means, that the > list must be closed because it has become too much of a problem, and > the negatives are outweighing the positives, then that's a possibility > we will have to consider. I ask that each of you be responsible, if > you are in doubt about something, you can email me about it, or simply > not post it. The flow of ideas and thoughts should be free, but that's > a privilege. Respect that privilege, and carefully think about what > you are putting out into the world. > The Internet gives a false sense of security, just because you are > typing something in the privacy of your room, home, etc. doesn't mean > that it isn't literally going out for the entire world to see. Think > about that. Is this something you want the entire planet, which has an > Internet connection to see? > If you have any questions, email me at trillian551 at gmail.com > Thank you > > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icdxpetras%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 17:24:54 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 13:24:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read In-Reply-To: <53F37285.2030409@tysdomain.com> References: <53f37218.8367440a.5672.21d4@mx.google.com> <53F37285.2030409@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Yes Mr. Littlefield is correct on all counts. Thanks Mary On 8/19/14, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l wrote: > Hello: > it just means that it wouldn't exist any longer. It would go away, etc. > I think that's the worst case scenario, hopefully after the admins start > yelling at people for posting stuff they really shouldn't. > On 8/19/2014 11:48 AM, petras via nabs-l wrote: >> What does it mean when the list would close? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Mary Fernandez via nabs-l > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:33:04 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read >> >> Good morning all, >> If you are a NABS List subscriber, I am expecting that you read this. >> In the very recent past, we've had some online discussion on the >> behavior taking place on the NABS list. Everyone is in agreement that >> things must change, however, even as this dialogue has proceeded, we >> have had a thread get completely out of control, and become harmful to >> individuals. This will not be tolerated. >> We will be revising the NABS list guidelines, in the meantime, there >> are a few things you must keep in mind when posting. >> 1. Use common sense. If you see that a thread is off topic, harmful, >> insulting, or otherwise digresses from the purpose of the list, which >> is to distribute information related to "blind students", then DO NOT >> respond. It is very simple. Off topic, means no response. If you have >> an issue with a thread, bring it to my attention immediately. >> 2. Topics not related to blind students are not appropriate >> topics. It >> doesn't matter if they are about self-promotion, movies, music, art, >> the theatre, or any other topic in this vast world, it isn't related >> to blindness, education and professionalism, it does not belong. >> 3. If Mary Fernandez, David Andrews, Sean Whalen, Arielle Silverman or >> any of the NABS board members asks that a thread stops. It must stop. >> Immediately. Read your latest message first, there is no excuse for >> responding to a thread that should have been stopped. >> We are very lenient and opened to all kinds of topics on this list, >> but these tangents simply cannot go on. If you have a problem with >> that, quite frankly, you can go create your own list and discuss >> topics as you wish. But not here. >> Everyone, we must keep this environment safe and respectful, and we >> are willing to take measures to do so. And if that means, that the >> list must be closed because it has become too much of a problem, and >> the negatives are outweighing the positives, then that's a possibility >> we will have to consider. I ask that each of you be responsible, if >> you are in doubt about something, you can email me about it, or simply >> not post it. The flow of ideas and thoughts should be free, but that's >> a privilege. Respect that privilege, and carefully think about what >> you are putting out into the world. >> The Internet gives a false sense of security, just because you are >> typing something in the privacy of your room, home, etc. doesn't mean >> that it isn't literally going out for the entire world to see. Think >> about that. Is this something you want the entire planet, which has an >> Internet connection to see? >> If you have any questions, email me at trillian551 at gmail.com >> Thank you >> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them >> feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icdxpetras%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 23:39:23 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 16:39:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Back to school Message-ID: Hi all, I thought I'd start up a less controversial discussion. I'm curious how many of you are starting school this week? How is it going with meeting your professors? Do you notify professors ahead of time about your blindness or just come to class and meet them on the first day? Have you had to do a lot of advocating about accommodations or are things moving pretty smoothly? Arielle From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Aug 19 23:49:51 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:49:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Back to school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, school starts next week for me. I tell professors ahead of time abot me and what needs I have. I try to get a copy of the syllabus ahead of time. they pass it out first. obviously I cannot read it, so having it beforehand and previewing helps me know what they're talking about. Sometimes though, professors don't read their emails so it’s a surprise then. in this case, we do what we can on day one. I usually speak to them after class or in their office about accomodations. I'm taking marketing and since its sort of visual with videos, should be interesting to see how it goes. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:39 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Back to school Hi all, I thought I'd start up a less controversial discussion. I'm curious how many of you are starting school this week? How is it going with meeting your professors? Do you notify professors ahead of time about your blindness or just come to class and meet them on the first day? Have you had to do a lot of advocating about accommodations or are things moving pretty smoothly? Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jty727 at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 00:04:04 2014 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:04:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Back to school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle and all! I begin my second year of grad school next week. As to the questions proposed, once I know who the names of the professors I send them an email explaining I'm a blind student and will be in their course that semester. This is when the discussion of accommadations occurs at first and then a more in depth conversation in person results from it where I give the professor my official accommodation letter and we talk about how I can be successful in their course. However; in undergraduate courses I have experienced the professor a tad resistant to accepting my accommadations especially to separate location and extra time on tests. I had to tell this professor more than once these accommadations were necessary for me to succeed in their course. It got so bad I had to have the Director for the Office of Services for Students with Disabilities get involved and advocate on my behalf because the professor wasn't properly understanding the situation. The funniest part was on the first day of class the adjunct professor was so unsure how to teach me she walked me over to the full professor of German (Elementary German 102 was the course) who I was already on great terms with the full professor who was for lack of a better phrase the head of the German language program at the school. He said to the adjunct professor "let's not reinvent the wheel on this" which is what the adjunct professor tried to do. The end of that story was I passed the course, but it was a very difficult professor. Unfortunately students with disabilities at times will face the unwilling professor to accommodate their needs which is when if necessary a dialogue with the professor, the student and the Director of Services for Students with Disabilities sit down to ensure the accommadations are met. Hope this helps in your questions and good luck to others who are starting the semester soon! Justin On 8/19/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I thought I'd start up a less controversial discussion. > > I'm curious how many of you are starting school this week? How is it > going with meeting your professors? > Do you notify professors ahead of time about your blindness or just > come to class and meet them on the first day? > Have you had to do a lot of advocating about accommodations or are > things moving pretty smoothly? > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From sgermano at asu.edu Wed Aug 20 00:57:13 2014 From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:57:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Back to school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I start on Thursday at ASU. I spoke with all my professors and they all seem great about accomodations. The school is running two extension cords for me in two of my class room because my cctc kill my laptop battery. The computer science dept is looking for a spot for me to have a 27 inch monitor because i am on campus for 6-8 hours studying between classes. I have to say my experience at ASU has been really good. Suzanne On Tuesday, August 19, 2014, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I thought I'd start up a less controversial discussion. > > I'm curious how many of you are starting school this week? How is it > going with meeting your professors? > Do you notify professors ahead of time about your blindness or just > come to class and meet them on the first day? > Have you had to do a lot of advocating about accommodations or are > things moving pretty smoothly? > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu > From freethaught at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 01:02:00 2014 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:02:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] getting employed In-Reply-To: <53f22c15.0b11330a.6636.ffffae3e@mx.google.com> References: <53f22c15.0b11330a.6636.ffffae3e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: There are ways for blind people to take credit cards, like the Square app. the problem is that in reality you must use the inaccessible registers of places like Starbucks. I’d love to work at a Starbucks, but currently lack the food prep skills. I have thought to ask to shadow, then work at smaller coffee shops, and pick up those skills, then move on to Starbucks, if I felt brave enough to face some of their scheduling and low pay issues recently reported in the news. It is not as easy to turn around and say blind people can work anywhere. Sure we can do most any job, but accessibility, and the real issues of discrimination can hold one back. I’d love to find out if any of you who are not able to use a register have worked at Starbucks. How do I even know if the register is accessible unless I get a job there, get behind the counter, and try it. See, they are not going to hire a possible law suit like a blind guy who will take them to task on being inaccessible. I would hope our International Braille and Technology Center could partner and create solutions for this type of problem. Coffee anyone? Antonio On Aug 18, 2014, at 12:38 PM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: > Well those and jobs that require checking people's ID's, i.e. any job where someone might try to pay you with a credit card. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bridget Walker via nabs-l To: Andrew ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:32:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting employed > > Seriously? Everything! Alright, maybe not driving a dump truck but, who would want that kind of job anyway? Doctors, teachers, engineers, and really do I need to keep going. I'm not going to lie I would have needed to be slightly sarcastic in that moment. Come on really? Maybe I would have asked what kind of jobs have you done vocational rehab coach? Come on. > Sorry for the harsh reaction. > To really answer your question I would say anything but a job that requires driving. After all that's the only thing we kind of can not do right? > HTH > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 17, 26 Heisei, at 6:58 PM, Andrew via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all > > I been wanting to get employed and things but anyway i went into meet > with the job developer or just to meet him and discuss things. the > primary thing he asked me was what jobs do blind people do. that was > the question that came up. i did not answer that he really didn't > give me much chance to talk much and things though what jobs do blind > people how would have you guys answered him if you were in my shoes. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalke > r13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma > il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 01:49:55 2014 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:49:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Back to school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7357AF61-B893-4BD5-91BE-EC9E4C83B6AD@gmail.com> Hi Arielle, I thought I’d take up this opportunity to say I am starting school and it feels very new. I left a bachelors program at Western Governors University, online, and I am looking to start class at the University of Massachusetts Boston on September 2nd. this all feels very new and exciting since I will again attend a school with actual building, professors, and classmates I can walk up to every day. I’m majoring in communications. Antonio Guimaraes On Aug 19, 2014, at 7:39 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I thought I'd start up a less controversial discussion. > > I'm curious how many of you are starting school this week? How is it > going with meeting your professors? > Do you notify professors ahead of time about your blindness or just > come to class and meet them on the first day? > Have you had to do a lot of advocating about accommodations or are > things moving pretty smoothly? > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 01:54:51 2014 From: franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com (jonathan franks) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:54:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Back to school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello all, I will actually be starting school next week for the second half of my Junior year at The University of Texas. I try to always communicate with my professors about my blindness ahead of time. That way you and your instructor can work out a system for the visual aspects and the non-accessible portions of the course. Many teachers do not have experience with working with blind students in my experiences. It is up to educate and advocate for our accomodations and needs so we can be successful in our classes with our sighted peers. I hope this helps Jonathan From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 03:26:21 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 23:26:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58A934A831584FE88D9E397583F195C1@Helga> Hi Mary and all, I just wanted to tell you that I understand when you say that we need to be acting respectfull in this list. In fact, I apologize if I started a tread that was very inapropriate for this mailing list. It was not my intention to cause any problem to all the students subscribe to this mailing list and professionals as well. The reason I post the message I post, as you all know, was because this never happen to me off list and I was very concerned and worried about it. And I didn't know if you guys have ever experience this issue before, so that is why I posted thinking that you could probably give me some suggestions in what can I do about it! And I actually didn't know that I needed to send this issue to the list moderator; instead, of the entire mailing list, in order for them to do something about it. Again, I apologize if I cause any problem or disconfort to you all by posting the message that I post last week. In fact, I really don't want this mailing list to close since I consider all of you as a family of students who help each other and even help me if I have any questions or issues with stuff. And I know, that everything that we post here goes to the archive, saying that, I don't want the tread of the message that I posted last week, to continue going ok? I will really appreciate it a lot. If you want to contact me off list, you are welcome to do so! since I don't want to clutter the list! Thanks so much for listening to me and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: Mary Fernandez via nabs-l Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:33 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read Good morning all, If you are a NABS List subscriber, I am expecting that you read this. In the very recent past, we've had some online discussion on the behavior taking place on the NABS list. Everyone is in agreement that things must change, however, even as this dialogue has proceeded, we have had a thread get completely out of control, and become harmful to individuals. This will not be tolerated. We will be revising the NABS list guidelines, in the meantime, there are a few things you must keep in mind when posting. 1. Use common sense. If you see that a thread is off topic, harmful, insulting, or otherwise digresses from the purpose of the list, which is to distribute information related to "blind students", then DO NOT respond. It is very simple. Off topic, means no response. If you have an issue with a thread, bring it to my attention immediately. 2. Topics not related to blind students are not appropriate topics. It doesn't matter if they are about self-promotion, movies, music, art, the theatre, or any other topic in this vast world, it isn't related to blindness, education and professionalism, it does not belong. 3. If Mary Fernandez, David Andrews, Sean Whalen, Arielle Silverman or any of the NABS board members asks that a thread stops. It must stop. Immediately. Read your latest message first, there is no excuse for responding to a thread that should have been stopped. We are very lenient and opened to all kinds of topics on this list, but these tangents simply cannot go on. If you have a problem with that, quite frankly, you can go create your own list and discuss topics as you wish. But not here. Everyone, we must keep this environment safe and respectful, and we are willing to take measures to do so. And if that means, that the list must be closed because it has become too much of a problem, and the negatives are outweighing the positives, then that's a possibility we will have to consider. I ask that each of you be responsible, if you are in doubt about something, you can email me about it, or simply not post it. The flow of ideas and thoughts should be free, but that's a privilege. Respect that privilege, and carefully think about what you are putting out into the world. The Internet gives a false sense of security, just because you are typing something in the privacy of your room, home, etc. doesn't mean that it isn't literally going out for the entire world to see. Think about that. Is this something you want the entire planet, which has an Internet connection to see? If you have any questions, email me at trillian551 at gmail.com Thank you -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 04:10:35 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 00:10:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Open Book 9.0 Message-ID: <070058AD2DB44055B7965260A1CD2BAC@Helga> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, do any of you here use Open Book 9.0? If you do, I just wanted to tell you that I’m having an issue with it. I actually install Open Book 9.0 in my Windows 8 Laptop computer, but the issue that I’m having is that I have a windows 7 printer and scanner since I also use a desktop computer, and when I went to scanner tab of the Open Book software, it showed that is not connected to Open Book software, so I can’t really scanned my papers. Do you know how can I fix this issue in order to be able to scan my papers? Just to let you know, the name of my printer and scanner is HP Photo-Smart 5514. In fact, I really don’t know what to do about it. I actually spoke to Freedom Scientific tech support and I ask them regarding this issue and they told me jthat the the windows 7 scanner is compatible with the windows 8 computer. I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me or give me some suggestions regarding this. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wlEmoticon-smile[1].png Type: image/png Size: 1046 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ligne14 at verizon.net Wed Aug 20 07:19:35 2014 From: ligne14 at verizon.net (Sami Osborne) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 03:19:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read Message-ID: <0NAL008IEGDQ1320@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> Hi Mary and all, I have a question regarding this. You said no posting off-topic messages, meaning messages not related to blindness, but what about intros? Would that be considered off-topic. In my opinion they shouldn't be, because a lot of new members come here, so it is nice to know also themselves. Also, I believe it would be a lot of work for the mederatorsffccstantly tell new members "no posting intros here" or something like that. This is just my personal opinion, but I could be wrong. Also, from time to time, David Dunphy posts here about his radio shows, would that be a problem as well? Since he always writes OT in the subject line. Thank you for any answers. Thanks, Sami. ----- Original Message ----- From: Helga via nabs-l ,"National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: Message-ID: Good morning, I know some are really uptight about "disclosing" but, i would like to echo Jonathan, here, if we, as blind people don't initiate the revelation of our blindness to those with whom we must work, such as the pole workers, or to jobs, the utter shock displayed by Ol'Sighty, will render them unseeing of ourr capacities. They will be shocked, blinded themselves by all the crap this, and other cultures teaches people about blindness. Openness, at least in my experience, is always the way to go!accomodations and needs so we can be successful in our classes with >our sighted peers. > >I hope this helps > >Jonathan To truly laugh, you must be able to take your pain and play with it.” — Charlie Chaplin >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From trillian551 at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 13:32:06 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:32:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read In-Reply-To: <0NAL008IEGDQ1320@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0NAL008IEGDQ1320@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: Hi Sami and all, When i say off topic I mean things like discussions on socialists versus communist governments. This is something that clearly has nothing to do with blindness and being a student. Having an interest in an intermural sport, and wondering on techniques to handle social situations in college as a blind student, are topics which are appropriate. Again, using a bit of common sense will fix any issues we may be having. Of course no one is going to sit here and police every single topic proposed to the list that would be completely counterproductive. But there have been long threads here, which are clearly not topics to be discussed on this list. They are topics of great discussion, just not for the NABS list. So, just carry on as usual, and use your common sense, you are all intelligent people who like to engage in discussions, and that shouldn't change. Thanks. Mary F ` On 8/20/14, Sami Osborne wrote: > Hi Mary and all, > > I have a question regarding this. > You said no posting off-topic messages, meaning messages not > related to blindness, but what about intros? Would that be > considered off-topic. > In my opinion they shouldn't be, because a lot of new members > come here, so it is nice to know also themselves. Also, I > believe it would be a lot of work for the mederatorsffccstantly > tell new members "no posting intros here" or something like that. > This is just my personal opinion, but I could be wrong. > > Also, from time to time, David Dunphy posts here about his radio > shows, would that be a problem as well? Since he always writes OT > in the subject line. > > Thank you for any answers. > > Thanks, > > Sami. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Helga via nabs-l To: "Mary Fernandez" ,"National > Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 23:26:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read > > Hi Mary and all, > I just wanted to tell you that I understand when you say that we > need to be > acting respectfull in this list. In fact, I apologize if I > started a tread > that was very inapropriate for this mailing list. It was not my > intention to > cause any problem to all the students subscribe to this mailing > list and > professionals as well. The reason I post the message I post, as > you all > know, was because this never happen to me off list and I was very > concerned > and worried about it. And I didn't know if you guys have ever > experience > this issue before, so that is why I posted thinking that you > could probably > give me some suggestions in what can I do about it! And I > actually didn't > know that I needed to send this issue to the list moderator; > instead, of the > entire mailing list, in order for them to do something about it. > Again, I > apologize if I cause any problem or disconfort to you all by > posting the > message that I post last week. In fact, I really don't want this > mailing > list to close since I consider all of you as a family of students > who help > each other and even help me if I have any questions or issues > with stuff. > And I know, that everything that we post here goes to the > archive, saying > that, I don't want the tread of the message that I posted last > week, to > continue going ok? I will really appreciate it a lot. If you > want to contact > me off list, you are welcome to do so! since I don't want to > clutter the > list! Thanks so much for listening to me and God bless! :) > > > > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota > chapter > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida > Association of Blind > Students > Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, > that whoever > believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John > 3:16 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Fernandez via nabs-l > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:33 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read > > Good morning all, > If you are a NABS List subscriber, I am expecting that you read > this. > In the very recent past, we've had some online discussion on the > behavior taking place on the NABS list. Everyone is in agreement > that > things must change, however, even as this dialogue has proceeded, > we > have had a thread get completely out of control, and become > harmful to > individuals. This will not be tolerated. > We will be revising the NABS list guidelines, in the meantime, > there > are a few things you must keep in mind when posting. > 1. Use common sense. If you see that a thread is off topic, > harmful, > insulting, or otherwise digresses from the purpose of the list, > which > is to distribute information related to "blind students", then DO > NOT > respond. It is very simple. Off topic, means no response. If > you have > an issue with a thread, bring it to my attention immediately. > 2. Topics not related to blind students are not appropriate > topics. It > doesn't matter if they are about self-promotion, movies, music, > art, > the theatre, or any other topic in this vast world, it isn't > related > to blindness, education and professionalism, it does not belong. > 3. If Mary Fernandez, David Andrews, Sean Whalen, Arielle > Silverman or > any of the NABS board members asks that a thread stops. It must > stop. > Immediately. Read your latest message first, there is no excuse > for > responding to a thread that should have been stopped. > We are very lenient and opened to all kinds of topics on this > list, > but these tangents simply cannot go on. If you have a problem > with > that, quite frankly, you can go create your own list and discuss > topics as you wish. But not here. > Everyone, we must keep this environment safe and respectful, and > we > are willing to take measures to do so. And if that means, that > the > list must be closed because it has become too much of a problem, > and > the negatives are outweighing the positives, then that's a > possibility > we will have to consider. I ask that each of you be responsible, > if > you are in doubt about something, you can email me about it, or > simply > not post it. The flow of ideas and thoughts should be free, but > that's > a privilege. Respect that privilege, and carefully think about > what > you are putting out into the world. > The Internet gives a false sense of security, just because you > are > typing something in the privacy of your room, home, etc. doesn't > mean > that it isn't literally going out for the entire world to see. > Think > about that. Is this something you want the entire planet, which > has an > Internet connection to see? > If you have any questions, email me at trillian551 at gmail.com > Thank you > > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made > them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib > er26%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver > izon.net > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 14:24:52 2014 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 10:24:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Open Book 9.0 In-Reply-To: <070058AD2DB44055B7965260A1CD2BAC@Helga> References: <070058AD2DB44055B7965260A1CD2BAC@Helga> Message-ID: Hi Helga, I think that this might not be an issue with OpenBook per se but rather that your printer/scanner is not properly set up with your new Windows 8 computer. Have you been able to get the printing function to work on your new laptop? If not, you may want to do a Google search for this particular printer/scanner model and see if there are any updated drivers that you need to install. Hope this helps! Katie On 8/20/14, Helga via nabs-l wrote: > Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, do any of you here > use Open Book 9.0? If you do, I just wanted to tell you that I’m having an > issue with it. I actually install Open Book 9.0 in my Windows 8 Laptop > computer, but the issue that I’m having is that I have a windows 7 printer > and scanner since I also use a desktop computer, and when I went to scanner > tab of the Open Book software, it showed that is not connected to Open Book > software, so I can’t really scanned my papers. Do you know how can I fix > this issue in order to be able to scan my papers? Just to let you know, the > name of my printer and scanner is HP Photo-Smart 5514. In fact, I really > don’t know what to do about it. I actually spoke to Freedom Scientific tech > support and I ask them regarding this issue and they told me jthat the the > windows 7 scanner is compatible with the windows 8 computer. I will really > appreciate it a lot, if you could help me or give me some suggestions > regarding this. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind > Students > Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research > > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever > believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 From icdxpetras at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 18:25:50 2014 From: icdxpetras at gmail.com (petras) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 11:25:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] passenee proble when connect to braillenote apex Message-ID: <53f4e864.41dc440a.23ba.ffffbdf9@mx.google.com> I am having trouble unlocking my iphone when connected to the braillenote. This started happening after ios 7. I hit the cursor on the unlock button. There I am prompted for my passcode. I try to enter my passcode 6 times, it says "Wrong passcode, iphone is disabled, try again in 1 minute." The time intervals increase and I don't want to be locked out permanently. If it fails after the tenth passcode attempt, I will be lock out completely or erases my data depending on the setting. This only applies when connected to the braillenote. I need help please. From matt.dierckens at me.com Wed Aug 20 18:43:28 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:43:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] passenee proble when connect to braillenote apex In-Reply-To: <53f4e864.41dc440a.23ba.ffffbdf9@mx.google.com> References: <53f4e864.41dc440a.23ba.ffffbdf9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <63B40AAF-5793-4ADF-8E93-3B38FD28FDBE@me.com> How are you entering the passcode? I enter mine on my Brailliant with the numbers on the keyboard but using the braille display. I'll give an example. If my passcode was 4159, I would not type these but instead space with dot 4 until I heard 4, press the cursor button, back to 1, press cursor button, 5, cursor button, then 9 and then cursor button. This should work for all displays. God bless. :) Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 work email:matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Personal email: matt.dierckens at me.com On Aug 20, 2014, at 14:25, petras via nabs-l wrote: > I am having trouble unlocking my iphone when connected to the braillenote. This started happening after ios 7. I hit the cursor on the unlock button. There I am prompted for my passcode. I try to enter my passcode 6 times, it says "Wrong passcode, iphone is disabled, try again in 1 minute." The time intervals increase and I don't want to be locked out permanently. If it fails after the tenth passcode attempt, I will be lock out completely or erases my data depending on the setting. This only applies when connected to the braillenote. I need help please. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 22:49:08 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:49:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read In-Reply-To: References: <0NAL008IEGDQ1320@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: Hi all, Brief new member intros are generally accepted; people like to know who they're talking to on list. I have not read David's radio promos closely. My sense is that they are only on topic if the content of the show contains blindness-relevant info. In the past we've let these messages slide because they don't cause a lot of list clutter. But, technically, any advertising or promos unrelated to blindness are off-topic. Best, Arielle On 8/20/14, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Sami and all, > When i say off topic I mean things like discussions on socialists > versus communist governments. This is something that clearly has > nothing to do with blindness and being a student. Having an interest > in an intermural sport, and wondering on techniques to handle social > situations in college as a blind student, are topics which are > appropriate. Again, using a bit of common sense will fix any issues we > may be having. Of course no one is going to sit here and police every > single topic proposed to the list that would be completely > counterproductive. But there have been long threads here, which are > clearly not topics to be discussed on this list. They are topics of > great discussion, just not for the NABS list. So, just carry on as > usual, and use your common sense, you are all intelligent people who > like to engage in discussions, and that shouldn't change. > Thanks. > Mary F > ` > > On 8/20/14, Sami Osborne wrote: >> Hi Mary and all, >> >> I have a question regarding this. >> You said no posting off-topic messages, meaning messages not >> related to blindness, but what about intros? Would that be >> considered off-topic. >> In my opinion they shouldn't be, because a lot of new members >> come here, so it is nice to know also themselves. Also, I >> believe it would be a lot of work for the mederatorsffccstantly >> tell new members "no posting intros here" or something like that. >> This is just my personal opinion, but I could be wrong. >> >> Also, from time to time, David Dunphy posts here about his radio >> shows, would that be a problem as well? Since he always writes OT >> in the subject line. >> >> Thank you for any answers. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Sami. >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Helga via nabs-l > To: "Mary Fernandez" ,"National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 23:26:21 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read >> >> Hi Mary and all, >> I just wanted to tell you that I understand when you say that we >> need to be >> acting respectfull in this list. In fact, I apologize if I >> started a tread >> that was very inapropriate for this mailing list. It was not my >> intention to >> cause any problem to all the students subscribe to this mailing >> list and >> professionals as well. The reason I post the message I post, as >> you all >> know, was because this never happen to me off list and I was very >> concerned >> and worried about it. And I didn't know if you guys have ever >> experience >> this issue before, so that is why I posted thinking that you >> could probably >> give me some suggestions in what can I do about it! And I >> actually didn't >> know that I needed to send this issue to the list moderator; >> instead, of the >> entire mailing list, in order for them to do something about it. >> Again, I >> apologize if I cause any problem or disconfort to you all by >> posting the >> message that I post last week. In fact, I really don't want this >> mailing >> list to close since I consider all of you as a family of students >> who help >> each other and even help me if I have any questions or issues >> with stuff. >> And I know, that everything that we post here goes to the >> archive, saying >> that, I don't want the tread of the message that I posted last >> week, to >> continue going ok? I will really appreciate it a lot. If you >> want to contact >> me off list, you are welcome to do so! since I don't want to >> clutter the >> list! Thanks so much for listening to me and God bless! :) >> >> >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota >> chapter >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida >> Association of Blind >> Students >> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research >> >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, >> that whoever >> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mary Fernandez via nabs-l >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:33 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding posting ot NABS List, Please Read >> >> Good morning all, >> If you are a NABS List subscriber, I am expecting that you read >> this. >> In the very recent past, we've had some online discussion on the >> behavior taking place on the NABS list. Everyone is in agreement >> that >> things must change, however, even as this dialogue has proceeded, >> we >> have had a thread get completely out of control, and become >> harmful to >> individuals. This will not be tolerated. >> We will be revising the NABS list guidelines, in the meantime, >> there >> are a few things you must keep in mind when posting. >> 1. Use common sense. If you see that a thread is off topic, >> harmful, >> insulting, or otherwise digresses from the purpose of the list, >> which >> is to distribute information related to "blind students", then DO >> NOT >> respond. It is very simple. Off topic, means no response. If >> you have >> an issue with a thread, bring it to my attention immediately. >> 2. Topics not related to blind students are not appropriate >> topics. It >> doesn't matter if they are about self-promotion, movies, music, >> art, >> the theatre, or any other topic in this vast world, it isn't >> related >> to blindness, education and professionalism, it does not belong. >> 3. If Mary Fernandez, David Andrews, Sean Whalen, Arielle >> Silverman or >> any of the NABS board members asks that a thread stops. It must >> stop. >> Immediately. Read your latest message first, there is no excuse >> for >> responding to a thread that should have been stopped. >> We are very lenient and opened to all kinds of topics on this >> list, >> but these tangents simply cannot go on. If you have a problem >> with >> that, quite frankly, you can go create your own list and discuss >> topics as you wish. But not here. >> Everyone, we must keep this environment safe and respectful, and >> we >> are willing to take measures to do so. And if that means, that >> the >> list must be closed because it has become too much of a problem, >> and >> the negatives are outweighing the positives, then that's a >> possibility >> we will have to consider. I ask that each of you be responsible, >> if >> you are in doubt about something, you can email me about it, or >> simply >> not post it. The flow of ideas and thoughts should be free, but >> that's >> a privilege. Respect that privilege, and carefully think about >> what >> you are putting out into the world. >> The Internet gives a false sense of security, just because you >> are >> typing something in the privacy of your room, home, etc. doesn't >> mean >> that it isn't literally going out for the entire world to see. >> Think >> about that. Is this something you want the entire planet, which >> has an >> Internet connection to see? >> If you have any questions, email me at trillian551 at gmail.com >> Thank you >> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made >> them >> feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib >> er26%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ligne14%40ver >> izon.net >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Thu Aug 21 01:15:00 2014 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 20:15:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [FedAccessibility] FYI FW: [program-l] ANNOUNCEMENT: Programming Tool User Study Message-ID: > > >From: program-l-bounce at freelists.org >[mailto:program-l-bounce at freelists.org] On Behalf Of Catherine Baker >Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 4:35 PM >To: program-l at freelists.org >Subject: [program-l] ANNOUNCEMENT: Programming Tool User Study > > > >Hello! > > > >My name is Catherine Baker. I am a graduate >student in Computer Science and Engineering at the University of Washington. > > > >We are currently working on the >“StructJumper” project. Due to the linear >nature of screen readers, skimming and >navigating code can be slow for those who use >screen readers. This study is to investigate an >alternate navigation tool to determine if it >improves the programmers’ ability to navigate >within the code quickly and easily. > > > >The study will be one session which will take >approximately 2 hours. Before the session, the >participants will be asked to fill out a short >survey and install the software on their >computer. During the session, the participants >will be asked to complete a variety of >programming tasks, such as finding the location >in code where X happens or determining which >conditions need to be true for line Y to >execute, with and without the tool. After >completing the tasks, the participants will be >asked to answer some questions in a >semi-structured interview. This study will take >place remotely using a screen-sharing software and phone service. > > > >We are looking for programmers who have at least >2 years of experience programming, at least 6 >months experiences with Eclipse and Java, use a >screen reader, identify as blind or low vision, >and are 18 or older. You must also have access >to a computer which you can install software on >for the user study and has internet access. > > > >The data we collect from the study will be >anonymized and used in future >publications. Participants will be compensated >with a $30 Amazon gift card after completing the study. > > > >Participation is strictly voluntary. You may >choose to not participate or to stop the study at any time. > > > >We encourage people of all genders and >ethnicities to participate. Please realize that >it is only the technology we are testing, not you! > > > >If you are interesting in participating in our >study, “StructJumper”, please contact me >directly by phone at >319-310-4553 or by email at >cmbaker at cs.washington.edu >(Please note that I cannot guarantee the >confidentiality of email.). You may also >contact the University of Washington Human >Subjects Division at >(206)543-0098 if you have >any questions about your rights as a subject. > > > >Please feel free to forward this to anyone else >you know who may be interested in participating in our study. > > > >Sincerely, > > > >Catherine Baker > >Computer Science and Engineering > >University of Washington > >Paul Allen Center > >Seattle, WA 98195-2840 >__._,_.___ > >---------- >Posted by: "Moore, Craig E. (MSFC-EV43)" David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 13:50:53 2014 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:50:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] passenee proble when connect to braillenote apex In-Reply-To: <53f4e864.41dc440a.23ba.ffffbdf9@mx.google.com> References: <53f4e864.41dc440a.23ba.ffffbdf9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2CA755FD-A5B8-428A-B0BE-CA0562403FD8@gmail.com> Try entering it on the iPhone's keyboard. It may not work using the braille display. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 20, 2014, at 2:25 PM, petras via nabs-l wrote: > > I am having trouble unlocking my iphone when connected to the braillenote. This started happening after ios 7. I hit the cursor on the unlock button. There I am prompted for my passcode. I try to enter my passcode 6 times, it says "Wrong passcode, iphone is disabled, try again in 1 minute." The time intervals increase and I don't want to be locked out permanently. If it fails after the tenth passcode attempt, I will be lock out completely or erases my data depending on the setting. This only applies when connected to the braillenote. I need help please. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From steve.jacobson at visi.com Thu Aug 21 15:09:35 2014 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:09:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] passenee proble when connect to braillenote apex In-Reply-To: <2CA755FD-A5B8-428A-B0BE-CA0562403FD8@gmail.com> Message-ID: There are apparently differences in how braille displays work during the unlock processes, so one has to experiment a little to find out what works. Also, the version of IOS can have an effect as well. Getting the focus on the keybad and then pressing each button with the braille display generally should work, but this is, of course, the slowest. Whether your phone or device will receive the numbers for your pass code can depend some on where the focus is. Try moving to different fields and then try to type. Also, depending upon how your translation settings are set, you will probably need to use the number sign and upper cell numbers, and you need to type quickly enough so the characters you just typed are not translated individually. Rather than typing the entire pass code over and over again and risking being locked out, type one number and see if it is accepted. You should hear a click and possible hear that the number of characters entered has been updated. Also, I believe if you relock your screen and then unlock it, the count for unsuccessful entries may start again. It is not a bad idea when you are experimenting like this to take the time to enter the pass code correctly directly on the touch screen now and then at well as this should reset warning counts. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:50:53 -0400, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l wrote: >Try entering it on the iPhone's keyboard. It may not work using the braille display. >Chris Nusbaum >Sent from my iPhone >> On Aug 20, 2014, at 2:25 PM, petras via nabs-l wrote: >> >> I am having trouble unlocking my iphone when connected to the braillenote. This started happening after ios 7. I hit the cursor on the unlock button. There I am prompted for my passcode. I try to enter my passcode 6 times, it says "Wrong passcode, iphone is disabled, try again in 1 minute." The time intervals increase and I don't want to be locked out permanently. If it fails after the tenth passcode attempt, I will be lock out completely or erases my data depending on the setting. This only applies when connected to the braillenote. I need help please. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 18:22:07 2014 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 14:22:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. Message-ID: Hi NABS, I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for bake sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use the site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and other small groups to get together to work on projects. As you all know, this creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't access any of the information easily. While I didn't have much success in working with last year's exec board to work around these issues, the president for this year and I have met and discussed these problems. Though she has no prior experience with these issues and is just another student, she is willing to help me look into other options which might make it easier for me to have access to the chapter information. She has expressed interest in reaching out to the Office of Learning Resources where our disability staff works, and seems to be making a good effort, for which I am really appreciative. However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. Last year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for years, and that's the system we've already set up, so just do the best you can with it." I had a job in the fraternity which required me to use a Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups for events, and it was very difficult for me to give back to the fraternity to the best of my ability because of that technical problem and the accessibility issues. The president knows I am completely capable of being a valuable asset to the fraternity, and that if given the proper access to the tools we use I could do a fine job of organizing and/or leading projects alongside my sisters. Though I will be living in the house with her and several other exec board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon them to complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I think that I could use my living situation to closely work with these board members to educate them about the accessibility issues I have with Google and to work for a positive solution to the problem. I am asking if anyone on this list has found work arounds for using Google docs and When is Good forms in these situations. So far the only thing I've managed to work out is the google forms app we use to take surveys for the chapter, but not having access to things like sign up sheets and the calendar are really big problems I hope to solve this year. Any suggestions would be great. -- Kaiti From codeofdusk at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 18:58:03 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 14:58:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000b01cfbd72$276537e0$762fa7a0$@gmail.com> Use Chrome with the Chrome Vox extension or the Google Drive Android app. Google Drive/apps work great for me when I use/need them. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. Hi NABS, I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for bake sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use the site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and other small groups to get together to work on projects. As you all know, this creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't access any of the information easily. While I didn't have much success in working with last year's exec board to work around these issues, the president for this year and I have met and discussed these problems. Though she has no prior experience with these issues and is just another student, she is willing to help me look into other options which might make it easier for me to have access to the chapter information. She has expressed interest in reaching out to the Office of Learning Resources where our disability staff works, and seems to be making a good effort, for which I am really appreciative. However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. Last year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for years, and that's the system we've already set up, so just do the best you can with it." I had a job in the fraternity which required me to use a Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups for events, and it was very difficult for me to give back to the fraternity to the best of my ability because of that technical problem and the accessibility issues. The president knows I am completely capable of being a valuable asset to the fraternity, and that if given the proper access to the tools we use I could do a fine job of organizing and/or leading projects alongside my sisters. Though I will be living in the house with her and several other exec board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon them to complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I think that I could use my living situation to closely work with these board members to educate them about the accessibility issues I have with Google and to work for a positive solution to the problem. I am asking if anyone on this list has found work arounds for using Google docs and When is Good forms in these situations. So far the only thing I've managed to work out is the google forms app we use to take surveys for the chapter, but not having access to things like sign up sheets and the calendar are really big problems I hope to solve this year. Any suggestions would be great. -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 19:04:22 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:04:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kaity This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel worksheets with the desktop app? Sofia Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi NABS, > > I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize > events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for bake > sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use the > site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and other small > groups to get together to work on projects. As you all know, this > creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't access any of > the information easily. While I didn't have much success in working > with last year's exec board to work around these issues, the president > for this year and I have met and discussed these problems. Though she > has no prior experience with these issues and is just another student, > she is willing to help me look into other options which might make it > easier for me to have access to the chapter information. She has > expressed interest in reaching out to the Office of Learning Resources > where our disability staff works, and seems to be making a good > effort, for which I am really appreciative. > > However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might > face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't > available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. Last > year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for years, and > that's the system we've already set up, so just do the best you can > with it." I had a job in the fraternity which required me to use a > Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups for events, and it was > very difficult for me to give back to the fraternity to the best of my > ability because of that technical problem and the accessibility > issues. The president knows I am completely capable of being a > valuable asset to the fraternity, and that if given the proper access > to the tools we use I could do a fine job of organizing and/or leading > projects alongside my sisters. > > Though I will be living in the house with her and several other exec > board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon them to > complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I think that I > could use my living situation to closely work with these board members > to educate them about the accessibility issues I have with Google and > to work for a positive solution to the problem. I am asking if anyone > on this list has found work arounds for using Google docs and When is > Good forms in these situations. So far the only thing I've managed to > work out is the google forms app we use to take surveys for the > chapter, but not having access to things like sign up sheets and the > calendar are really big problems I hope to solve this year. Any > suggestions would be great. > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 19:25:33 2014 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:25:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kaiti, Can you give a little bit more information about which features of google drive you are having problems with? I've been figuring out the functions of google drive bit by bit and have found that although a little challenging at times, most of the apps are accessible. From my experience, firefox seems to work best with the suite of apps; I'm using Jaws 13 but have also used it with Jaws 14. Minh On 8/21/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Kaity > > This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel worksheets with > the desktop app? > > Sofia > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi NABS, >> >> I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize >> events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for bake >> sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use the >> site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and other small >> groups to get together to work on projects. As you all know, this >> creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't access any of >> the information easily. While I didn't have much success in working >> with last year's exec board to work around these issues, the president >> for this year and I have met and discussed these problems. Though she >> has no prior experience with these issues and is just another student, >> she is willing to help me look into other options which might make it >> easier for me to have access to the chapter information. She has >> expressed interest in reaching out to the Office of Learning Resources >> where our disability staff works, and seems to be making a good >> effort, for which I am really appreciative. >> >> However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might >> face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't >> available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. Last >> year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for years, and >> that's the system we've already set up, so just do the best you can >> with it." I had a job in the fraternity which required me to use a >> Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups for events, and it was >> very difficult for me to give back to the fraternity to the best of my >> ability because of that technical problem and the accessibility >> issues. The president knows I am completely capable of being a >> valuable asset to the fraternity, and that if given the proper access >> to the tools we use I could do a fine job of organizing and/or leading >> projects alongside my sisters. >> >> Though I will be living in the house with her and several other exec >> board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon them to >> complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I think that I >> could use my living situation to closely work with these board members >> to educate them about the accessibility issues I have with Google and >> to work for a positive solution to the problem. I am asking if anyone >> on this list has found work arounds for using Google docs and When is >> Good forms in these situations. So far the only thing I've managed to >> work out is the google forms app we use to take surveys for the >> chapter, but not having access to things like sign up sheets and the >> calendar are really big problems I hope to solve this year. Any >> suggestions would be great. >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com > -- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence From cape.amanda at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 19:28:19 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:28:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Netflix Message-ID: <2BA40AD5-57D7-458A-AE1D-BA4C7A0D87ED@gmail.com> Has anyone been having trouble using netflix with jaws and the iPhone app with VoiceOver recently?Amanda From cape.amanda at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 19:34:36 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:34:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google chrom Message-ID: Does google chrome work with jaws? How is it different than Firefox? Amanda From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 19:37:38 2014 From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:37:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google chrom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7695FAC3-BB4D-44C9-AF1D-39141359850B@gmail.com> HI Amanda, Yes, Chrom e does work perfectly with JAWS. I’ve not found it to be that much different from Firefox. You use control L to get to the address bar, just like you would in Firefox. Some of the menus and things are different, but other than that, it’s fairly similar to Firefox. Ryan L. Silveira > On Aug 21, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: > > Does google chrome work with jaws? How is it different than Firefox? > > Amanda > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com From johnniejduran at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 19:55:21 2014 From: johnniejduran at gmail.com (johnnie Jean duran) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 12:55:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Google chrom In-Reply-To: <7695FAC3-BB4D-44C9-AF1D-39141359850B@gmail.com> References: <7695FAC3-BB4D-44C9-AF1D-39141359850B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, it's totally accessible, and some menus look different, but that's all. On 8/21/14, Ryan Silveira via nabs-l wrote: > HI Amanda, > > Yes, Chrom e does work perfectly with JAWS. I've not found it to be that > much different from Firefox. You use control L to get to the address bar, > just like you would in Firefox. Some of the menus and things are different, > but other than that, it's fairly similar to Firefox. > > > Ryan L. Silveira > >> On Aug 21, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Does google chrome work with jaws? How is it different than Firefox? >> >> Amanda >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/johnniejduran%40gmail.com > -- Ms. Johnnie Jean Duran 9th Grade Student Alameda International High School Lakewood, Colorado, United States Member Of The National Federation Of The Blind Of Colorado (NFBCO), The Colorado Association Of Blind Students (CABS), and the North Metro Chapter of the NFB. Facebook: http://facebook.com/johnniejean.duran Skype: jj.duran13 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jj_duran14 Voicemail: (303) 552-9683 (Voicemail only) From tyler at tysdomain.com Thu Aug 21 19:56:03 2014 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:56:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google chrom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53F64ED3.2080108@tysdomain.com> Hello: It works pretty good on 14 and above. It is generally much faster and it has nice sandboxing so that one tab crashing won't take everything down. On 8/21/2014 3:34 PM, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: > Does google chrome work with jaws? How is it different than Firefox? > > Amanda > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From cape.amanda at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 20:07:12 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 16:07:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google chrom In-Reply-To: References: <7695FAC3-BB4D-44C9-AF1D-39141359850B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Does it work well with jaws 12? Does it crash less often than Firefox? Amanda > On Aug 21, 2014, at 3:55 PM, johnnie Jean duran via nabs-l wrote: > > Yes, it's totally accessible, and some menus look different, but that's all. > >> On 8/21/14, Ryan Silveira via nabs-l wrote: >> HI Amanda, >> >> Yes, Chrom e does work perfectly with JAWS. I've not found it to be that >> much different from Firefox. You use control L to get to the address bar, >> just like you would in Firefox. Some of the menus and things are different, >> but other than that, it's fairly similar to Firefox. >> >> >> Ryan L. Silveira >> >>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: >>> >>> Does google chrome work with jaws? How is it different than Firefox? >>> >>> Amanda >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/johnniejduran%40gmail.com > > > -- > Ms. Johnnie Jean Duran > 9th Grade Student > Alameda International High School > Lakewood, Colorado, United States > Member Of The National Federation Of The Blind Of Colorado (NFBCO), > The Colorado Association Of Blind Students (CABS), and the North Metro > Chapter of the NFB. > Facebook: http://facebook.com/johnniejean.duran > Skype: jj.duran13 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jj_duran14 > Voicemail: (303) 552-9683 (Voicemail only) > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com From lilliepennington at fuse.net Thu Aug 21 20:10:02 2014 From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 16:10:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google chrom In-Reply-To: <53F64ED3.2080108@tysdomain.com> References: <53F64ED3.2080108@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <01E20E35-3260-4E83-AA4E-1B281C72989B@fuse.net> How is it different from explorer? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2014, at 3:56 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l" wrote: > > Hello: > It works pretty good on 14 and above. It is generally much faster and it has nice sandboxing so that one tab crashing won't take everything down. >> On 8/21/2014 3:34 PM, Amanda via nabs-l wrote: >> Does google chrome work with jaws? How is it different than Firefox? >> >> Amanda >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 23:09:36 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 19:09:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google chrom In-Reply-To: References: <7695FAC3-BB4D-44C9-AF1D-39141359850B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9DE318EAD46A4D0EAF14A6C54A733AC1@Helga> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, since you guys are talking about Google Chrome, and if it is accessible with JAWS, what's the difference between Internet Explorer, and Google Chrome? I'm just wondering since I'm probably thinking in installing it on my Windows 8 Laptop computer! And also, what is the advantages in having Google Chrome; instead, of Internet Explorer? Is Google Chrome more accessible with Blackboard, and many other websites or pages? Just wondering as well! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: Amanda via nabs-l Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 4:07 PM To: johnnie Jean duran ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google chrom Does it work well with jaws 12? Does it crash less often than Firefox? Amanda > On Aug 21, 2014, at 3:55 PM, johnnie Jean duran via nabs-l > wrote: > > Yes, it's totally accessible, and some menus look different, but that's > all. > >> On 8/21/14, Ryan Silveira via nabs-l wrote: >> HI Amanda, >> >> Yes, Chrom e does work perfectly with JAWS. I've not found it to be that >> much different from Firefox. You use control L to get to the address >> bar, >> just like you would in Firefox. Some of the menus and things are >> different, >> but other than that, it's fairly similar to Firefox. >> >> >> Ryan L. Silveira >> >>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Amanda via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Does google chrome work with jaws? How is it different than Firefox? >>> >>> Amanda >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/johnniejduran%40gmail.com > > > -- > Ms. Johnnie Jean Duran > 9th Grade Student > Alameda International High School > Lakewood, Colorado, United States > Member Of The National Federation Of The Blind Of Colorado (NFBCO), > The Colorado Association Of Blind Students (CABS), and the North Metro > Chapter of the NFB. > Facebook: http://facebook.com/johnniejean.duran > Skype: jj.duran13 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jj_duran14 > Voicemail: (303) 552-9683 (Voicemail only) > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 01:03:27 2014 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 21:03:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kaiti, I recently came across the following blog post about the accessibility of Google apps. According to the author (and a number of other blind people I know), most features of Google apps are actually now relatively accessible. I haven't personally had a chance to test out the tips/suggestions mentioned here but hope you will find them helpful. Good luck! http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/07/08/accessibility-in-google-apps-an-overview/ Best, Katie On 8/21/14, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: > Kaiti, > > Can you give a little bit more information about which features of > google drive you are having problems with? I've been figuring out the > functions of google drive bit by bit and have found that although a > little challenging at times, most of the apps are accessible. From my > experience, firefox seems to work best with the suite of apps; I'm > using Jaws 13 but have also used it with Jaws 14. > > Minh > > On 8/21/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Kaity >> >> This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel worksheets >> with >> the desktop app? >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi NABS, >>> >>> I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize >>> events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for bake >>> sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use the >>> site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and other small >>> groups to get together to work on projects. As you all know, this >>> creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't access any of >>> the information easily. While I didn't have much success in working >>> with last year's exec board to work around these issues, the president >>> for this year and I have met and discussed these problems. Though she >>> has no prior experience with these issues and is just another student, >>> she is willing to help me look into other options which might make it >>> easier for me to have access to the chapter information. She has >>> expressed interest in reaching out to the Office of Learning Resources >>> where our disability staff works, and seems to be making a good >>> effort, for which I am really appreciative. >>> >>> However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might >>> face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't >>> available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. Last >>> year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for years, and >>> that's the system we've already set up, so just do the best you can >>> with it." I had a job in the fraternity which required me to use a >>> Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups for events, and it was >>> very difficult for me to give back to the fraternity to the best of my >>> ability because of that technical problem and the accessibility >>> issues. The president knows I am completely capable of being a >>> valuable asset to the fraternity, and that if given the proper access >>> to the tools we use I could do a fine job of organizing and/or leading >>> projects alongside my sisters. >>> >>> Though I will be living in the house with her and several other exec >>> board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon them to >>> complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I think that I >>> could use my living situation to closely work with these board members >>> to educate them about the accessibility issues I have with Google and >>> to work for a positive solution to the problem. I am asking if anyone >>> on this list has found work arounds for using Google docs and When is >>> Good forms in these situations. So far the only thing I've managed to >>> work out is the google forms app we use to take surveys for the >>> chapter, but not having access to things like sign up sheets and the >>> calendar are really big problems I hope to solve this year. Any >>> suggestions would be great. >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 02:05:10 2014 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 22:05:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Thanks for the suggestions, and I'll particularly check out the article Katie Wang just posted for ideas. I think most of the time we use the spreadsheet feature on Google apps. I tried to use this last year, along with the accessibility tips in Google help files, and had significant problems with it. It was much easier to use Windows magnifier to read the screen visually, which in itself didn't make the task very easy and strained my eyes after a few minutes. We also use the calendar, and this has worked a little better for me once I manage to get the events to display in list format rather than in calendar view. using Jaws 13 I had issues getting to the button to make this view change, but I have always used IE, which could have been the issue there. Like I said, google forms for surveys, and of course gmail, have worked fine for me. I can't really use the dropbox idea, which is unfortunate because as easy as it would make life for me, it wouldn't be easy for the file to be continuously updated by various chapter members, and I would also be subject to missing information due to not having access to those updates if the person in charge of updating the dropbox file forgot. Like I said the 20 something other girls in the chapter already have their system, so we're trying to find ways to make it accessible for me with the existing platforms we have rather than to change platforms entirely for the chapter. I would love to use dropbox though rather than Google drive, and will probably see if it can be managed for a committee, or projects I may undertake with a small group of people. When is Good is still going to be problematic. Does anyone know of work arounds for that? I've been sending my schedule and availability to people who send out the surveys, but I always feel a little awkward about it because I know sometimes there is other information listed in the survey that I am not privy to. E.G, only certain meeting times will be shown as possible options, or the survey creator will put a note in the survey for people to read that I miss out on. I'll keep sending my availability via email if I have to, but if anyone has happened to find a way to make When is Good work, or has found a comparable service that is accessible I can tell my chapter about, I would really appreciate it. On 8/21/14, Katie Wang via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Kaiti, > > I recently came across the following blog post about the accessibility > of Google apps. According to the author (and a number of other blind > people I know), most features of Google apps are actually now > relatively accessible. I haven't personally had a chance to test out > the tips/suggestions mentioned here but hope you will find them > helpful. Good luck! > http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/07/08/accessibility-in-google-apps-an-overview/ > > Best, > Katie > > > On 8/21/14, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: >> Kaiti, >> >> Can you give a little bit more information about which features of >> google drive you are having problems with? I've been figuring out the >> functions of google drive bit by bit and have found that although a >> little challenging at times, most of the apps are accessible. From my >> experience, firefox seems to work best with the suite of apps; I'm >> using Jaws 13 but have also used it with Jaws 14. >> >> Minh >> >> On 8/21/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Kaity >>> >>> This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel worksheets >>> with >>> the desktop app? >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi NABS, >>>> >>>> I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize >>>> events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for bake >>>> sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use the >>>> site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and other small >>>> groups to get together to work on projects. As you all know, this >>>> creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't access any of >>>> the information easily. While I didn't have much success in working >>>> with last year's exec board to work around these issues, the president >>>> for this year and I have met and discussed these problems. Though she >>>> has no prior experience with these issues and is just another student, >>>> she is willing to help me look into other options which might make it >>>> easier for me to have access to the chapter information. She has >>>> expressed interest in reaching out to the Office of Learning Resources >>>> where our disability staff works, and seems to be making a good >>>> effort, for which I am really appreciative. >>>> >>>> However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might >>>> face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't >>>> available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. Last >>>> year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for years, and >>>> that's the system we've already set up, so just do the best you can >>>> with it." I had a job in the fraternity which required me to use a >>>> Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups for events, and it was >>>> very difficult for me to give back to the fraternity to the best of my >>>> ability because of that technical problem and the accessibility >>>> issues. The president knows I am completely capable of being a >>>> valuable asset to the fraternity, and that if given the proper access >>>> to the tools we use I could do a fine job of organizing and/or leading >>>> projects alongside my sisters. >>>> >>>> Though I will be living in the house with her and several other exec >>>> board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon them to >>>> complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I think that I >>>> could use my living situation to closely work with these board members >>>> to educate them about the accessibility issues I have with Google and >>>> to work for a positive solution to the problem. I am asking if anyone >>>> on this list has found work arounds for using Google docs and When is >>>> Good forms in these situations. So far the only thing I've managed to >>>> work out is the google forms app we use to take surveys for the >>>> chapter, but not having access to things like sign up sheets and the >>>> calendar are really big problems I hope to solve this year. Any >>>> suggestions would be great. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From codeofdusk at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 03:40:35 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:40:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005901cfbdba$d60740c0$8215c240$@gmail.com> What about Google Chrome/Chrome vox? I've always been able to access Google Docs/Sheets/Slides that way. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:05 PM To: Katie Wang; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. Hi all, Thanks for the suggestions, and I'll particularly check out the article Katie Wang just posted for ideas. I think most of the time we use the spreadsheet feature on Google apps. I tried to use this last year, along with the accessibility tips in Google help files, and had significant problems with it. It was much easier to use Windows magnifier to read the screen visually, which in itself didn't make the task very easy and strained my eyes after a few minutes. We also use the calendar, and this has worked a little better for me once I manage to get the events to display in list format rather than in calendar view. using Jaws 13 I had issues getting to the button to make this view change, but I have always used IE, which could have been the issue there. Like I said, google forms for surveys, and of course gmail, have worked fine for me. I can't really use the dropbox idea, which is unfortunate because as easy as it would make life for me, it wouldn't be easy for the file to be continuously updated by various chapter members, and I would also be subject to missing information due to not having access to those updates if the person in charge of updating the dropbox file forgot. Like I said the 20 something other girls in the chapter already have their system, so we're trying to find ways to make it accessible for me with the existing platforms we have rather than to change platforms entirely for the chapter. I would love to use dropbox though rather than Google drive, and will probably see if it can be managed for a committee, or projects I may undertake with a small group of people. When is Good is still going to be problematic. Does anyone know of work arounds for that? I've been sending my schedule and availability to people who send out the surveys, but I always feel a little awkward about it because I know sometimes there is other information listed in the survey that I am not privy to. E.G, only certain meeting times will be shown as possible options, or the survey creator will put a note in the survey for people to read that I miss out on. I'll keep sending my availability via email if I have to, but if anyone has happened to find a way to make When is Good work, or has found a comparable service that is accessible I can tell my chapter about, I would really appreciate it. On 8/21/14, Katie Wang via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Kaiti, > > I recently came across the following blog post about the accessibility > of Google apps. According to the author (and a number of other blind > people I know), most features of Google apps are actually now > relatively accessible. I haven't personally had a chance to test out > the tips/suggestions mentioned here but hope you will find them > helpful. Good luck! > http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/07/08/accessibility-in-google-apps-an-ove > rview/ > > Best, > Katie > > > On 8/21/14, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: >> Kaiti, >> >> Can you give a little bit more information about which features of >> google drive you are having problems with? I've been figuring out the >> functions of google drive bit by bit and have found that although a >> little challenging at times, most of the apps are accessible. From my >> experience, firefox seems to work best with the suite of apps; I'm >> using Jaws 13 but have also used it with Jaws 14. >> >> Minh >> >> On 8/21/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Kaity >>> >>> This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel >>> worksheets with the desktop app? >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi NABS, >>>> >>>> I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize >>>> events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for >>>> bake sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use >>>> the site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and >>>> other small groups to get together to work on projects. As you all >>>> know, this creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't >>>> access any of the information easily. While I didn't have much >>>> success in working with last year's exec board to work around these >>>> issues, the president for this year and I have met and discussed >>>> these problems. Though she has no prior experience with these >>>> issues and is just another student, she is willing to help me look >>>> into other options which might make it easier for me to have access >>>> to the chapter information. She has expressed interest in reaching >>>> out to the Office of Learning Resources where our disability staff >>>> works, and seems to be making a good effort, for which I am really appreciative. >>>> >>>> However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might >>>> face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't >>>> available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. >>>> Last year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for >>>> years, and that's the system we've already set up, so just do the >>>> best you can with it." I had a job in the fraternity which >>>> required me to use a Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups >>>> for events, and it was very difficult for me to give back to the >>>> fraternity to the best of my ability because of that technical >>>> problem and the accessibility issues. The president knows I am >>>> completely capable of being a valuable asset to the fraternity, and >>>> that if given the proper access to the tools we use I could do a >>>> fine job of organizing and/or leading projects alongside my sisters. >>>> >>>> Though I will be living in the house with her and several other >>>> exec board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon >>>> them to complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I >>>> think that I could use my living situation to closely work with >>>> these board members to educate them about the accessibility issues >>>> I have with Google and to work for a positive solution to the >>>> problem. I am asking if anyone on this list has found work arounds >>>> for using Google docs and When is Good forms in these situations. >>>> So far the only thing I've managed to work out is the google forms >>>> app we use to take surveys for the chapter, but not having access >>>> to things like sign up sheets and the calendar are really big >>>> problems I hope to solve this year. Any suggestions would be great. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gma >>> il.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the >> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >> il.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Fri Aug 22 03:54:09 2014 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:54:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: <005901cfbdba$d60740c0$8215c240$@gmail.com> References: <005901cfbdba$d60740c0$8215c240$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53F6BEE1.6070808@tysdomain.com> chromevox is far from intuitive. I also am not really thrilled about the idea of a self-voicing shell on top of a web browser to make sites that should already be accessible more accessible. Jaws 14 is much better with this since Google has been all over aria lately, I hear jaws 15 has better a11y support as well, but I've not tried it as of yet. On 8/21/2014 11:40 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > What about Google Chrome/Chrome vox? I've always been able to access Google > Docs/Sheets/Slides that way. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > via nabs-l > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:05 PM > To: Katie Wang; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is > Good, etc. > > Hi all, > > Thanks for the suggestions, and I'll particularly check out the article > Katie Wang just posted for ideas. > > I think most of the time we use the spreadsheet feature on Google apps. I > tried to use this last year, along with the accessibility tips in Google > help files, and had significant problems with it. It was much easier to use > Windows magnifier to read the screen visually, which in itself didn't make > the task very easy and strained my eyes after a few minutes. We also use > the calendar, and this has worked a little better for me once I manage to > get the events to display in list format rather than in calendar view. > using Jaws 13 I had issues getting to the button to make this view change, > but I have always used IE, which could have been the issue there. > > Like I said, google forms for surveys, and of course gmail, have worked fine > for me. I can't really use the dropbox idea, which is unfortunate because > as easy as it would make life for me, it wouldn't be easy for the file to be > continuously updated by various chapter members, and I would also be subject > to missing information due to not having access to those updates if the > person in charge of updating the dropbox file forgot. Like I said the 20 > something other girls in the chapter already have their system, so we're > trying to find ways to make it accessible for me with the existing platforms > we have rather than to change platforms entirely for the chapter. I would > love to use dropbox though rather than Google drive, and will probably see > if it can be managed for a committee, or projects I may undertake with a > small group of people. > > When is Good is still going to be problematic. Does anyone know of work > arounds for that? I've been sending my schedule and availability to people > who send out the surveys, but I always feel a little awkward about it > because I know sometimes there is other information listed in the survey > that I am not privy to. E.G, only certain meeting times will be shown as > possible options, or the survey creator will put a note in the survey for > people to read that I miss out on. I'll keep sending my availability via > email if I have to, but if anyone has happened to find a way to make When is > Good work, or has found a comparable service that is accessible I can tell > my chapter about, I would really appreciate it. > > On 8/21/14, Katie Wang via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Kaiti, >> >> I recently came across the following blog post about the accessibility >> of Google apps. According to the author (and a number of other blind >> people I know), most features of Google apps are actually now >> relatively accessible. I haven't personally had a chance to test out >> the tips/suggestions mentioned here but hope you will find them >> helpful. Good luck! >> http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/07/08/accessibility-in-google-apps-an-ove >> rview/ >> >> Best, >> Katie >> >> >> On 8/21/14, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> >>> Can you give a little bit more information about which features of >>> google drive you are having problems with? I've been figuring out the >>> functions of google drive bit by bit and have found that although a >>> little challenging at times, most of the apps are accessible. From my >>> experience, firefox seems to work best with the suite of apps; I'm >>> using Jaws 13 but have also used it with Jaws 14. >>> >>> Minh >>> >>> On 8/21/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Kaity >>>> >>>> This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel >>>> worksheets with the desktop app? >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi NABS, >>>>> >>>>> I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize >>>>> events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for >>>>> bake sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use >>>>> the site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and >>>>> other small groups to get together to work on projects. As you all >>>>> know, this creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't >>>>> access any of the information easily. While I didn't have much >>>>> success in working with last year's exec board to work around these >>>>> issues, the president for this year and I have met and discussed >>>>> these problems. Though she has no prior experience with these >>>>> issues and is just another student, she is willing to help me look >>>>> into other options which might make it easier for me to have access >>>>> to the chapter information. She has expressed interest in reaching >>>>> out to the Office of Learning Resources where our disability staff >>>>> works, and seems to be making a good effort, for which I am really > appreciative. >>>>> However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might >>>>> face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't >>>>> available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. >>>>> Last year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for >>>>> years, and that's the system we've already set up, so just do the >>>>> best you can with it." I had a job in the fraternity which >>>>> required me to use a Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups >>>>> for events, and it was very difficult for me to give back to the >>>>> fraternity to the best of my ability because of that technical >>>>> problem and the accessibility issues. The president knows I am >>>>> completely capable of being a valuable asset to the fraternity, and >>>>> that if given the proper access to the tools we use I could do a >>>>> fine job of organizing and/or leading projects alongside my sisters. >>>>> >>>>> Though I will be living in the house with her and several other >>>>> exec board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon >>>>> them to complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I >>>>> think that I could use my living situation to closely work with >>>>> these board members to educate them about the accessibility issues >>>>> I have with Google and to work for a positive solution to the >>>>> problem. I am asking if anyone on this list has found work arounds >>>>> for using Google docs and When is Good forms in these situations. >>>>> So far the only thing I've managed to work out is the google forms >>>>> app we use to take surveys for the chapter, but not having access >>>>> to things like sign up sheets and the calendar are really big >>>>> problems I hope to solve this year. Any suggestions would be great. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the >>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was > vanity: >>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >>> il.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From codeofdusk at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 03:58:05 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:58:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: <53F6BEE1.6070808@tysdomain.com> References: <005901cfbdba$d60740c0$8215c240$@gmail.com> <53F6BEE1.6070808@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <006a01cfbdbd$480ca2d0$d825e870$@gmail.com> Not a JAWS user so can't really give you much feedback there, but the ARIA support could improve NVDA/Firefox support. Will play with it. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler [mailto:tyler at tysdomain.com] Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 11:54 PM To: Bill K. Dengler; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. chromevox is far from intuitive. I also am not really thrilled about the idea of a self-voicing shell on top of a web browser to make sites that should already be accessible more accessible. Jaws 14 is much better with this since Google has been all over aria lately, I hear jaws 15 has better a11y support as well, but I've not tried it as of yet. On 8/21/2014 11:40 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > What about Google Chrome/Chrome vox? I've always been able to access > Google Docs/Sheets/Slides that way. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton via nabs-l > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:05 PM > To: Katie Wang; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When > is Good, etc. > > Hi all, > > Thanks for the suggestions, and I'll particularly check out the > article Katie Wang just posted for ideas. > > I think most of the time we use the spreadsheet feature on Google > apps. I tried to use this last year, along with the accessibility > tips in Google help files, and had significant problems with it. It > was much easier to use Windows magnifier to read the screen visually, > which in itself didn't make the task very easy and strained my eyes > after a few minutes. We also use the calendar, and this has worked a > little better for me once I manage to get the events to display in list format rather than in calendar view. > using Jaws 13 I had issues getting to the button to make this view > change, but I have always used IE, which could have been the issue there. > > Like I said, google forms for surveys, and of course gmail, have > worked fine for me. I can't really use the dropbox idea, which is > unfortunate because as easy as it would make life for me, it wouldn't > be easy for the file to be continuously updated by various chapter > members, and I would also be subject to missing information due to not > having access to those updates if the person in charge of updating the > dropbox file forgot. Like I said the 20 something other girls in the > chapter already have their system, so we're trying to find ways to > make it accessible for me with the existing platforms we have rather > than to change platforms entirely for the chapter. I would love to > use dropbox though rather than Google drive, and will probably see if > it can be managed for a committee, or projects I may undertake with a small group of people. > > When is Good is still going to be problematic. Does anyone know of > work arounds for that? I've been sending my schedule and availability > to people who send out the surveys, but I always feel a little awkward > about it because I know sometimes there is other information listed in > the survey that I am not privy to. E.G, only certain meeting times > will be shown as possible options, or the survey creator will put a > note in the survey for people to read that I miss out on. I'll keep > sending my availability via email if I have to, but if anyone has > happened to find a way to make When is Good work, or has found a > comparable service that is accessible I can tell my chapter about, I would really appreciate it. > > On 8/21/14, Katie Wang via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Kaiti, >> >> I recently came across the following blog post about the >> accessibility of Google apps. According to the author (and a number >> of other blind people I know), most features of Google apps are >> actually now relatively accessible. I haven't personally had a chance >> to test out the tips/suggestions mentioned here but hope you will >> find them helpful. Good luck! >> http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/07/08/accessibility-in-google-apps-an-ov >> e >> rview/ >> >> Best, >> Katie >> >> >> On 8/21/14, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> >>> Can you give a little bit more information about which features of >>> google drive you are having problems with? I've been figuring out >>> the functions of google drive bit by bit and have found that >>> although a little challenging at times, most of the apps are >>> accessible. From my experience, firefox seems to work best with the >>> suite of apps; I'm using Jaws 13 but have also used it with Jaws 14. >>> >>> Minh >>> >>> On 8/21/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Kaity >>>> >>>> This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel >>>> worksheets with the desktop app? >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi NABS, >>>>> >>>>> I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to >>>>> organize events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up >>>>> sheets for bake sales and other table activities, etc. We also >>>>> frequently use the site When is Good to find times for committee >>>>> meetings and other small groups to get together to work on >>>>> projects. As you all know, this creates an accessibility >>>>> nightmare for me, since I can't access any of the information >>>>> easily. While I didn't have much success in working with last >>>>> year's exec board to work around these issues, the president for >>>>> this year and I have met and discussed these problems. Though she >>>>> has no prior experience with these issues and is just another >>>>> student, she is willing to help me look into other options which >>>>> might make it easier for me to have access to the chapter >>>>> information. She has expressed interest in reaching out to the >>>>> Office of Learning Resources where our disability staff works, and >>>>> seems to be making a good effort, for which I am really > appreciative. >>>>> However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we >>>>> might face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems >>>>> aren't available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. >>>>> Last year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for >>>>> years, and that's the system we've already set up, so just do the >>>>> best you can with it." I had a job in the fraternity which >>>>> required me to use a Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups >>>>> for events, and it was very difficult for me to give back to the >>>>> fraternity to the best of my ability because of that technical >>>>> problem and the accessibility issues. The president knows I am >>>>> completely capable of being a valuable asset to the fraternity, >>>>> and that if given the proper access to the tools we use I could do >>>>> a fine job of organizing and/or leading projects alongside my sisters. >>>>> >>>>> Though I will be living in the house with her and several other >>>>> exec board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon >>>>> them to complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I >>>>> think that I could use my living situation to closely work with >>>>> these board members to educate them about the accessibility issues >>>>> I have with Google and to work for a positive solution to the >>>>> problem. I am asking if anyone on this list has found work >>>>> arounds for using Google docs and When is Good forms in these situations. >>>>> So far the only thing I've managed to work out is the google forms >>>>> app we use to take surveys for the chapter, but not having access >>>>> to things like sign up sheets and the calendar are really big >>>>> problems I hope to solve this year. Any suggestions would be great. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%4 >>>>> 0 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gm >>>> a >>>> il.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the >>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was > vanity: >>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gm >>> a >>> il.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> % >> 40gmail.com >> > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. > com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 06:55:01 2014 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 02:55:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you are talking about the surveys created on google forms, I've never had a problem with missing or hiddeninformation. Another option that your group can look into when it comes to finding people's availability is doodle. It's extremely intuitive and all you have to do once someone creates the Doodle is to go in and check the boxes of the days/times that you are available. Minh On 8/21/14, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks for the suggestions, and I'll particularly check out the > article Katie Wang just posted for ideas. > > I think most of the time we use the spreadsheet feature on Google > apps. I tried to use this last year, along with the accessibility > tips in Google help files, and had significant problems with it. It > was much easier to use Windows magnifier to read the screen visually, > which in itself didn't make the task very easy and strained my eyes > after a few minutes. We also use the calendar, and this has worked a > little better for me once I manage to get the events to display in > list format rather than in calendar view. using Jaws 13 I had issues > getting to the button to make this view change, but I have always used > IE, which could have been the issue there. > > Like I said, google forms for surveys, and of course gmail, have > worked fine for me. I can't really use the dropbox idea, which is > unfortunate because as easy as it would make life for me, it wouldn't > be easy for the file to be continuously updated by various chapter > members, and I would also be subject to missing information due to not > having access to those updates if the person in charge of updating the > dropbox file forgot. Like I said the 20 something other girls in the > chapter already have their system, so we're trying to find ways to > make it accessible for me with the existing platforms we have rather > than to change platforms entirely for the chapter. I would love to > use dropbox though rather than Google drive, and will probably see if > it can be managed for a committee, or projects I may undertake with a > small group of people. > > When is Good is still going to be problematic. Does anyone know of > work arounds for that? I've been sending my schedule and availability > to people who send out the surveys, but I always feel a little awkward > about it because I know sometimes there is other information listed in > the survey that I am not privy to. E.G, only certain meeting times > will be shown as possible options, or the survey creator will put a > note in the survey for people to read that I miss out on. I'll keep > sending my availability via email if I have to, but if anyone has > happened to find a way to make When is Good work, or has found a > comparable service that is accessible I can tell my chapter about, I > would really appreciate it. > > On 8/21/14, Katie Wang via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Kaiti, >> >> I recently came across the following blog post about the accessibility >> of Google apps. According to the author (and a number of other blind >> people I know), most features of Google apps are actually now >> relatively accessible. I haven't personally had a chance to test out >> the tips/suggestions mentioned here but hope you will find them >> helpful. Good luck! >> http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/07/08/accessibility-in-google-apps-an-overview/ >> >> Best, >> Katie >> >> >> On 8/21/14, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> >>> Can you give a little bit more information about which features of >>> google drive you are having problems with? I've been figuring out the >>> functions of google drive bit by bit and have found that although a >>> little challenging at times, most of the apps are accessible. From my >>> experience, firefox seems to work best with the suite of apps; I'm >>> using Jaws 13 but have also used it with Jaws 14. >>> >>> Minh >>> >>> On 8/21/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Kaity >>>> >>>> This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel worksheets >>>> with >>>> the desktop app? >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi NABS, >>>>> >>>>> I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize >>>>> events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for bake >>>>> sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use the >>>>> site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and other small >>>>> groups to get together to work on projects. As you all know, this >>>>> creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't access any of >>>>> the information easily. While I didn't have much success in working >>>>> with last year's exec board to work around these issues, the president >>>>> for this year and I have met and discussed these problems. Though she >>>>> has no prior experience with these issues and is just another student, >>>>> she is willing to help me look into other options which might make it >>>>> easier for me to have access to the chapter information. She has >>>>> expressed interest in reaching out to the Office of Learning Resources >>>>> where our disability staff works, and seems to be making a good >>>>> effort, for which I am really appreciative. >>>>> >>>>> However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might >>>>> face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't >>>>> available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. Last >>>>> year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for years, and >>>>> that's the system we've already set up, so just do the best you can >>>>> with it." I had a job in the fraternity which required me to use a >>>>> Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups for events, and it was >>>>> very difficult for me to give back to the fraternity to the best of my >>>>> ability because of that technical problem and the accessibility >>>>> issues. The president knows I am completely capable of being a >>>>> valuable asset to the fraternity, and that if given the proper access >>>>> to the tools we use I could do a fine job of organizing and/or leading >>>>> projects alongside my sisters. >>>>> >>>>> Though I will be living in the house with her and several other exec >>>>> board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon them to >>>>> complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I think that I >>>>> could use my living situation to closely work with these board members >>>>> to educate them about the accessibility issues I have with Google and >>>>> to work for a positive solution to the problem. I am asking if anyone >>>>> on this list has found work arounds for using Google docs and When is >>>>> Good forms in these situations. So far the only thing I've managed to >>>>> work out is the google forms app we use to take surveys for the >>>>> chapter, but not having access to things like sign up sheets and the >>>>> calendar are really big problems I hope to solve this year. Any >>>>> suggestions would be great. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com > -- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 17:50:28 2014 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 23:20:28 +0530 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking Message-ID: Hi all, I hope this message finds you well. I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking with my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in meetings. I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly reduces my productivity. Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys for overcoming this challenge? I look forward to reading your responses. Best, Rahul From yadosoto at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 17:53:52 2014 From: yadosoto at gmail.com (Yadiel Sotomayor) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:53:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 22 Aug 2014, at 13:50, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > > I hope this message finds you well. > I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking with > my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in > meetings. > I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while > working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly > reduces my productivity. > Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys for > overcoming this challenge? > I look forward to reading your responses. > > Best, > Rahul > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yadosoto%40gmail.com Hello: I find that having bone conduction headphones help. That said, this is a situation where Braille is invaluable. Do you have access to a Braille display? If so, I suggest you connecting it to your computer or mobile device of choice. If not, a good slate and stylus should do the trick. I understand that this is not ideal if you are a slow braille writer like myself, but I find that with a little bit of practice, you can do it. From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 17:56:50 2014 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:56:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10857C38-F988-491C-8DAD-3FD469F83029@gmail.com> Rahul: This is, in my opinion, where a braille display comes in quite handy. I have similar problems when trying to work with a screen reader while holding a conversation. For me even listening to another person while at the same time listening to my screen reader through headphones is difficult, and having a conversation with them is virtually impossible. If you have a braille display or notetaker, I would strongly suggest using that to take notes in meetings. Currently I am the secretary of the Maryland Association of blind students, and I use my braille display almost exclusively in meetings to take minutes. If I don't have access to my braille display, another option I use is to record the meetings (for my own use only) and take the Notes afterward based on the recording. Hope this helps, Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > > I hope this message finds you well. > I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking with > my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in > meetings. > I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while > working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly > reduces my productivity. > Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys for > overcoming this challenge? > I look forward to reading your responses. > > Best, > Rahul > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Fri Aug 22 18:06:09 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:06:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good morning, Rahul, What works for me, typically, is to record the session before entering the information therein, later. Then, you are not rushed, and your attention remains on client. Also, any audible responces of your client are documented, you can then make note of said responces if need be.. for today, CarAt 10:50 AM 8/22/2014, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: >Hi all, > >I hope this message finds you well. >I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking with >my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in >meetings. >I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while >working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly >reduces my productivity. >Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys for >overcoming this challenge? >I look forward to reading your responses. > >Best, >Rahul > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 18:16:15 2014 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:16:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: <53f7869e.26178c0a.3388.4000SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <53f7869e.26178c0a.3388.4000SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5B48DCFC-7B50-421C-AD6F-87E9409592A1@gmail.com> If you don't have a braille display, that's a great idea. It's what I used to. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l wrote: > > Good morning, Rahul, > > What works for me, typically, is to record the session before entering the information therein, later. Then, you are not rushed, and your attention remains on client. Also, any audible responces of your client are documented, you can then make note of said responces if need be.. > > for today, CarAt 10:50 AM 8/22/2014, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I hope this message finds you well. >> I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking with >> my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in >> meetings. >> I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while >> working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly >> reduces my productivity. >> Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys for >> overcoming this challenge? >> I look forward to reading your responses. >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 18:16:43 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:16:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: <53f786a6.c81c8c0a.1123.ffffefdbSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <53f786a6.c81c8c0a.1123.ffffefdbSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi I like to use my Braille note when Ineed to type while listening to someone talk. I also set my screen reader to say words only since I know the keyboard well enough so I don't need to hear every character. This may not work for everyone though. Sofia Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l wrote: > > Good morning, Rahul, > > What works for me, typically, is to record the session before entering the information therein, later. Then, you are not rushed, and your attention remains on client. Also, any audible responces of your client are documented, you can then make note of said responces if need be.. > > for today, CarAt 10:50 AM 8/22/2014, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I hope this message finds you well. >> I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking with >> my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in >> meetings. >> I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while >> working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly >> reduces my productivity. >> Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys for >> overcoming this challenge? >> I look forward to reading your responses. >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 18:39:43 2014 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 00:09:43 +0530 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: <5B48DCFC-7B50-421C-AD6F-87E9409592A1@gmail.com> References: <53f7869e.26178c0a.3388.4000SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <5B48DCFC-7B50-421C-AD6F-87E9409592A1@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the quick responses, everyone. Actually, I am not very well versed with Braille. I only know the basics. I primarily rely on assistive technology. There are no good Braille trainers in the city that I live in. I will have to learn Braille well to seriously consider this alternative. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2014, at 11:46 PM, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l wrote: > > If you don't have a braille display, that's a great idea. It's what I used to. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Good morning, Rahul, >> >> What works for me, typically, is to record the session before entering the information therein, later. Then, you are not rushed, and your attention remains on client. Also, any audible responces of your client are documented, you can then make note of said responces if need be.. >> >> for today, CarAt 10:50 AM 8/22/2014, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I hope this message finds you well. >>> I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking with >>> my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in >>> meetings. >>> I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while >>> working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly >>> reduces my productivity. >>> Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys for >>> overcoming this challenge? >>> I look forward to reading your responses. >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 18:50:31 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:50:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: References: <53f7869e.26178c0a.3388.4000SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <5B48DCFC-7B50-421C-AD6F-87E9409592A1@gmail.com> Message-ID: I use a single earbud on one ear while typing so I can listen with the other ear. Sometimes once I am in a document I can remove the earbud and type while talking. Arielle On 8/22/14, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: > Thanks for the quick responses, everyone. Actually, I am not very well > versed with Braille. > I only know the basics. I primarily rely on assistive technology. There are > no good Braille trainers in the city that I live in. I will have to learn > Braille well to seriously consider this alternative. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 22, 2014, at 11:46 PM, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> If you don't have a braille display, that's a great idea. It's what I used >> to. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Good morning, Rahul, >>> >>> What works for me, typically, is to record the session before entering >>> the information therein, later. Then, you are not rushed, and your >>> attention remains on client. Also, any audible responces of your client >>> are documented, you can then make note of said responces if need be.. >>> >>> for today, CarAt 10:50 AM 8/22/2014, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I hope this message finds you well. >>>> I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking with >>>> my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in >>>> meetings. >>>> I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while >>>> working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly >>>> reduces my productivity. >>>> Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys for >>>> overcoming this challenge? >>>> I look forward to reading your responses. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 18:52:30 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:52:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: References: <53f7869e.26178c0a.3388.4000SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <5B48DCFC-7B50-421C-AD6F-87E9409592A1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <004b01cfbe3a$3a6d5ca0$af4815e0$@gmail.com> I do the same thing. However, what do you folks do for a normal phone. Can you plug earphones in on a normal work desk phone? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman via nabs-l Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 2:51 PM To: Rahul Bajaj; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking I use a single earbud on one ear while typing so I can listen with the other ear. Sometimes once I am in a document I can remove the earbud and type while talking. Arielle On 8/22/14, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: > Thanks for the quick responses, everyone. Actually, I am not very well > versed with Braille. > I only know the basics. I primarily rely on assistive technology. > There are no good Braille trainers in the city that I live in. I will > have to learn Braille well to seriously consider this alternative. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 22, 2014, at 11:46 PM, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l >> >> wrote: >> >> If you don't have a braille display, that's a great idea. It's what I >> used to. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Good morning, Rahul, >>> >>> What works for me, typically, is to record the session before >>> entering the information therein, later. Then, you are not rushed, >>> and your attention remains on client. Also, any audible responces of >>> your client are documented, you can then make note of said responces if need be.. >>> >>> for today, CarAt 10:50 AM 8/22/2014, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I hope this message finds you well. >>>> I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking >>>> with my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in >>>> meetings. >>>> I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while >>>> working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly >>>> reduces my productivity. >>>> Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys >>>> for overcoming this challenge? >>>> I look forward to reading your responses. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comc >>>> ast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>> 0gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%4 >> 0gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From clb5590 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 19:18:30 2014 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:18:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: <004b01cfbe3a$3a6d5ca0$af4815e0$@gmail.com> References: <53f7869e.26178c0a.3388.4000SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <5B48DCFC-7B50-421C-AD6F-87E9409592A1@gmail.com> <004b01cfbe3a$3a6d5ca0$af4815e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I also use one earbud and when I am typing notes, I turn off speech. You can do this temporarily in a file when using JAWS by pressing insert 2 to toggle between speaking characters, words, characters and words, or nothing. If I am doing a user study, I tend to record the session so I can remain engaged in the conversation, but I have found that I can keep up with a meeting pretty well using the former solution. When using phones, you can get a split headset where one side plugs in to the phone and the other, your computer. This is a common solution for blind people who work in call centers. I found the headset to be quite bulky, so I just used one earbud and put the headset that came with my office phone over my other ear. This worked for me since my office phone headseet only had one ear attached. Cindy On 8/22/14, justin williams via nabs-l wrote: > I do the same thing. However, what do you folks do for a normal phone. Can > you plug earphones in on a normal work desk phone? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman via nabs-l > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 2:51 PM > To: Rahul Bajaj; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking > > I use a single earbud on one ear while typing so I can listen with the > other > ear. Sometimes once I am in a document I can remove the earbud and type > while talking. > Arielle > > On 8/22/14, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: >> Thanks for the quick responses, everyone. Actually, I am not very well >> versed with Braille. >> I only know the basics. I primarily rely on assistive technology. >> There are no good Braille trainers in the city that I live in. I will >> have to learn Braille well to seriously consider this alternative. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 11:46 PM, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> If you don't have a braille display, that's a great idea. It's what I >>> used to. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Good morning, Rahul, >>>> >>>> What works for me, typically, is to record the session before >>>> entering the information therein, later. Then, you are not rushed, >>>> and your attention remains on client. Also, any audible responces of >>>> your client are documented, you can then make note of said responces if > need be.. >>>> >>>> for today, CarAt 10:50 AM 8/22/2014, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I hope this message finds you well. >>>>> I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking >>>>> with my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in >>>>> meetings. >>>>> I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while >>>>> working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly >>>>> reduces my productivity. >>>>> Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys >>>>> for overcoming this challenge? >>>>> I look forward to reading your responses. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comc >>>>> ast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%4 >>> 0gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 19:19:26 2014 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 00:49:26 +0530 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity Message-ID: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> Hi all, I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the fact that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a professional setting. That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has been a major cause of concern. I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a similar experience? What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this challenge? Best, Rahul Sent from my iPhone From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 19:29:26 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:29:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Rahul, I am wondering what version of JAWS and Windows you are using. In my experience, JAWS can be a little sluggish, but it is reliable overall. I am wondering if your productivity could benefit from either updating JAWS or purchasing a more modern computer. If you tell us some examples of the kinds of situations you are running into that slow you down, we may be able to suggest some easy-to-learn tricks to increase your efficiency. Arielle On 8/22/14, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > > I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my > sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the fact > that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which > is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able > to in a professional setting. > That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often > unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work with > the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. > Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts get > for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in the > private sector where you are not only required to do your work well but are > also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. > My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of > frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised any > objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as my > sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is reflective > of the low expectations that society has from blind people. > Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has been > a major cause of concern. > I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a > similar experience? > What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this > challenge? > > Best, > Rahul > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Fri Aug 22 19:33:10 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:33:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good afternoon, Rahul, Let it go! You're tormenting yourself unnecessarily, with these demands that are, as far as I know, unrealistic!Ol'Sighty as I am faund of referring to sighted people, work more smoothly because, unlike us, they have access to eyesight so don't need a screenreader. This won't change so you need not torture yourself over a reality that will always dominate your experience. for today, Car can primarily be attributed to the fact that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a professional setting. >That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually >impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a >feasible option in the private sector where you are not only >required to do your work well but are also expected to complete your >tasks expeditiously. >My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source >of frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >raised any objections about my inability to complete the same amount >of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I >guess this is reflective of the low expectations that society has >from blind people. >Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >has been a major cause of concern. >I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had >a similar experience? >What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >this challenge? > >Best, >Rahul > > > >Sent from my iPhone >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 19:44:58 2014 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:44:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <53f79b0c.e42a8c0a.7956.052eSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <53f79b0c.e42a8c0a.7956.052eSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Good afternoon. I could not disagree more. In my experience in virtually all employment in school context I am able to keep up with or surpass my cited peers in my computer efficiency. Granted this is basically just working with Outlook, Word, and Excel. I understand that when you get into more complicated software applications different difficulties present themselves. But for a lot of the work equal efficiency is very real as a feasible objective. As has been mentioned, it would be helpful if you could point out some of the places where you're struggling to better determine what the issue is. Again, it could well be that the software just does not interface well and you are legitimately at a disadvantage. But I would caution us all against jumping to that conclusion from the outset. Thanks! Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:33 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l wrote: > > Good afternoon, Rahul, > > Let it go! You're tormenting yourself unnecessarily, with these demands that are, as far as I know, unrealistic!Ol'Sighty as I am faund of referring to sighted people, work more smoothly because, unlike us, they have access to eyesight so don't need a screenreader. This won't change so you need not torture yourself over a reality that will always dominate your experience. > for today, Car > > can primarily be attributed to the fact that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a professional setting. >> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. >> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has been a major cause of concern. >> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a similar experience? >> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this challenge? >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/smwhalenpsp%40gmail.com From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Fri Aug 22 20:09:00 2014 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 16:09:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are three things I'd keep in mind. 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting things done quickly. 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so does using assistive tech. 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to do the best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do better. I work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work slower/less hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement and a good attitude. Best Derek Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > > I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the fact that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a professional setting. > That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. > Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. > My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. > Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has been a major cause of concern. > I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a similar experience? > What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this challenge? > > Best, > Rahul > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 20:23:06 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:23:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <53f79b0c.e42a8c0a.7956.052eSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Good afternoon Rahul and all, As has been stated several times by several people already, it's hard to give specific advice when we don't know what your computer set up is, what screen reader version you are using, what your particular difficulties are etc. in general, though, intensive practice is probably the best way to learn how to use your screen reader more naturally. Depending on your learning style there are resources that can, contingent on your practice and effort, help transform you from A casual to a professional assistive technology user. There are numerous podcasts and interactive exercises on freedom scientific's official website. There is also a website, blind how.com, with many very powerful but easily understandable jaws tutorials put together by a very good friend of mine. If we know more about your specific issues we will probably have a better idea of what suggestions might work best for you. Also, as Sean says, I think you are right to be concerned about this if you intend to work in a professional setting. My advice is that you don't beat yourself up about it, I think most of us have been where you are at one time or another and it does take a lot of learning and experience before you get to the point where you will be working at the same speed and often faster than your cited colleagues. However,jaws has many powerful and robust keyboard commands and, though I don't hardly know anything about you, I think it's reasonable to expect that you will get to that point if you devote the time and energy to make it happen. Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2014, at 1:44 PM, Sean Whalen via nabs-l wrote: > > Good afternoon. I could not disagree more. In my experience in virtually all employment in school context I am able to keep up with or surpass my cited peers in my computer efficiency. Granted this is basically just working with Outlook, Word, and Excel. I understand that when you get into more complicated software applications different difficulties present themselves. But for a lot of the work equal efficiency is very real as a feasible objective. As has been mentioned, it would be helpful if you could point out some of the places where you're struggling to better determine what the issue is. Again, it could well be that the software just does not interface well and you are legitimately at a disadvantage. But I would caution us all against jumping to that conclusion from the outset. Thanks! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:33 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Good afternoon, Rahul, >> >> Let it go! You're tormenting yourself unnecessarily, with these demands that are, as far as I know, unrealistic!Ol'Sighty as I am faund of referring to sighted people, work more smoothly because, unlike us, they have access to eyesight so don't need a screenreader. This won't change so you need not torture yourself over a reality that will always dominate your experience. >> for today, Car >> >> can primarily be attributed to the fact that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a professional setting. >>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. >>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has been a major cause of concern. >>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a similar experience? >>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this challenge? >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/smwhalenpsp%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 20:24:19 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:24:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Hi Rahul, Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may have more. 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use control-shift-apostrophe. 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word instead of in PDF format. Good luck and congrats on the internship! Arielle On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: > Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are three > things I'd keep in mind. > > 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting things > done quickly. > 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so does > using assistive tech. > 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to do the > best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do better. I > work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work slower/less > hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement and a > good attitude. > > Best > Derek > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the fact >> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which >> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be >> able to in a professional setting. >> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often >> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work >> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts >> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in >> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well >> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of >> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised >> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as >> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. >> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has >> been a major cause of concern. >> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a >> similar experience? >> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this >> challenge? >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 20:29:25 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:29:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. Arielle On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Rahul, > Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may have > more. > 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program > and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed > should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so > fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. > 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work > on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still > do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's > efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is > nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. > 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use control-shift-apostrophe. > 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a > different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word > instead of in PDF format. > > Good luck and congrats on the internship! > Arielle > > On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are three >> things I'd keep in mind. >> >> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting things >> done quickly. >> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so does >> using assistive tech. >> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to do >> the >> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do better. >> I >> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >> slower/less >> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement and >> a >> good attitude. >> >> Best >> Derek >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the fact >>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>> which >>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be >>> able to in a professional setting. >>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often >>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work >>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts >>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in >>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well >>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of >>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised >>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as >>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. >>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has >>> been a major cause of concern. >>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a >>> similar experience? >>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this >>> challenge? >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > From clb5590 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 20:35:44 2014 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:35:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Hi Rahul, I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy material. Cindy On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an > attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML > version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. > Arielle > > On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Rahul, >> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may have >> more. >> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so >> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work >> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's >> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use control-shift-apostrophe. >> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >> instead of in PDF format. >> >> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >> Arielle >> >> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are three >>> things I'd keep in mind. >>> >>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>> things >>> done quickly. >>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so does >>> using assistive tech. >>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to do >>> the >>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>> better. >>> I >>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>> slower/less >>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement >>> and >>> a >>> good attitude. >>> >>> Best >>> Derek >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>> fact >>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>>> which >>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be >>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often >>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work >>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts >>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in >>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well >>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of >>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>> raised >>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work >>>> as >>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. >>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has >>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a >>>> similar experience? >>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this >>>> challenge? >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 20:55:13 2014 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 02:25:13 +0530 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely helpful. I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific features such as reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT presentations with graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted  colleagues for reading long 50-100 page documents. Cheers, Rahul On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Rahul, > > I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would > you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great > solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 > points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. > I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy > material. > > Cindy > > On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >> Arielle >> >> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Rahul, >>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may >>> have >>> more. >>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so >>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work >>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's >>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use control-shift-apostrophe. >>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >>> instead of in PDF format. >>> >>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>> three >>>> things I'd keep in mind. >>>> >>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>> things >>>> done quickly. >>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so does >>>> using assistive tech. >>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to do >>>> the >>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>>> better. >>>> I >>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>> slower/less >>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement >>>> and >>>> a >>>> good attitude. >>>> >>>> Best >>>> Derek >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>>> fact >>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>>>> which >>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be >>>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>> often >>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to >>>>> work >>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>> counterparts >>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option >>>>> in >>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work >>>>> well >>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of >>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>>> raised >>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work >>>>> as >>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. >>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >>>>> has >>>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a >>>>> similar experience? >>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >>>>> this >>>>> challenge? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National > Federation of the Blind of Washington > Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind > > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 21:40:28 2014 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 17:40:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kaiti, I assume WhenISGood is some type of meeting-scheduling web service? If so, I second Minh's suggestion of trying Doodle - It is completely accessible for both entering your availability as well as setting up a "pool" with possible meeting times for people to fill out. Katie On 8/22/14, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: > If you are talking about the surveys created on google forms, I've > never had a problem with missing or hiddeninformation. Another option > that your group can look into when it comes to finding people's > availability is doodle. It's extremely intuitive and all you have to > do once someone creates the Doodle is to go in and check the boxes of > the days/times that you are available. > > Minh > > On 8/21/14, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Thanks for the suggestions, and I'll particularly check out the >> article Katie Wang just posted for ideas. >> >> I think most of the time we use the spreadsheet feature on Google >> apps. I tried to use this last year, along with the accessibility >> tips in Google help files, and had significant problems with it. It >> was much easier to use Windows magnifier to read the screen visually, >> which in itself didn't make the task very easy and strained my eyes >> after a few minutes. We also use the calendar, and this has worked a >> little better for me once I manage to get the events to display in >> list format rather than in calendar view. using Jaws 13 I had issues >> getting to the button to make this view change, but I have always used >> IE, which could have been the issue there. >> >> Like I said, google forms for surveys, and of course gmail, have >> worked fine for me. I can't really use the dropbox idea, which is >> unfortunate because as easy as it would make life for me, it wouldn't >> be easy for the file to be continuously updated by various chapter >> members, and I would also be subject to missing information due to not >> having access to those updates if the person in charge of updating the >> dropbox file forgot. Like I said the 20 something other girls in the >> chapter already have their system, so we're trying to find ways to >> make it accessible for me with the existing platforms we have rather >> than to change platforms entirely for the chapter. I would love to >> use dropbox though rather than Google drive, and will probably see if >> it can be managed for a committee, or projects I may undertake with a >> small group of people. >> >> When is Good is still going to be problematic. Does anyone know of >> work arounds for that? I've been sending my schedule and availability >> to people who send out the surveys, but I always feel a little awkward >> about it because I know sometimes there is other information listed in >> the survey that I am not privy to. E.G, only certain meeting times >> will be shown as possible options, or the survey creator will put a >> note in the survey for people to read that I miss out on. I'll keep >> sending my availability via email if I have to, but if anyone has >> happened to find a way to make When is Good work, or has found a >> comparable service that is accessible I can tell my chapter about, I >> would really appreciate it. >> >> On 8/21/14, Katie Wang via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Kaiti, >>> >>> I recently came across the following blog post about the accessibility >>> of Google apps. According to the author (and a number of other blind >>> people I know), most features of Google apps are actually now >>> relatively accessible. I haven't personally had a chance to test out >>> the tips/suggestions mentioned here but hope you will find them >>> helpful. Good luck! >>> http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/07/08/accessibility-in-google-apps-an-overview/ >>> >>> Best, >>> Katie >>> >>> >>> On 8/21/14, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Kaiti, >>>> >>>> Can you give a little bit more information about which features of >>>> google drive you are having problems with? I've been figuring out the >>>> functions of google drive bit by bit and have found that although a >>>> little challenging at times, most of the apps are accessible. From my >>>> experience, firefox seems to work best with the suite of apps; I'm >>>> using Jaws 13 but have also used it with Jaws 14. >>>> >>>> Minh >>>> >>>> On 8/21/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Hi Kaity >>>>> >>>>> This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel >>>>> worksheets >>>>> with >>>>> the desktop app? >>>>> >>>>> Sofia >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi NABS, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize >>>>>> events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for >>>>>> bake >>>>>> sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use the >>>>>> site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and other >>>>>> small >>>>>> groups to get together to work on projects. As you all know, this >>>>>> creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't access any >>>>>> of >>>>>> the information easily. While I didn't have much success in working >>>>>> with last year's exec board to work around these issues, the >>>>>> president >>>>>> for this year and I have met and discussed these problems. Though >>>>>> she >>>>>> has no prior experience with these issues and is just another >>>>>> student, >>>>>> she is willing to help me look into other options which might make it >>>>>> easier for me to have access to the chapter information. She has >>>>>> expressed interest in reaching out to the Office of Learning >>>>>> Resources >>>>>> where our disability staff works, and seems to be making a good >>>>>> effort, for which I am really appreciative. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might >>>>>> face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't >>>>>> available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. Last >>>>>> year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for years, and >>>>>> that's the system we've already set up, so just do the best you can >>>>>> with it." I had a job in the fraternity which required me to use a >>>>>> Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups for events, and it was >>>>>> very difficult for me to give back to the fraternity to the best of >>>>>> my >>>>>> ability because of that technical problem and the accessibility >>>>>> issues. The president knows I am completely capable of being a >>>>>> valuable asset to the fraternity, and that if given the proper access >>>>>> to the tools we use I could do a fine job of organizing and/or >>>>>> leading >>>>>> projects alongside my sisters. >>>>>> >>>>>> Though I will be living in the house with her and several other exec >>>>>> board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon them to >>>>>> complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I think that >>>>>> I >>>>>> could use my living situation to closely work with these board >>>>>> members >>>>>> to educate them about the accessibility issues I have with Google and >>>>>> to work for a positive solution to the problem. I am asking if >>>>>> anyone >>>>>> on this list has found work arounds for using Google docs and When is >>>>>> Good forms in these situations. So far the only thing I've managed >>>>>> to >>>>>> work out is the google forms app we use to take surveys for the >>>>>> chapter, but not having access to things like sign up sheets and the >>>>>> calendar are really big problems I hope to solve this year. Any >>>>>> suggestions would be great. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kaiti >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 22:10:13 2014 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 18:10:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <790FE8FF-BEC5-4E8D-92CD-BEDD175C23A2@gmail.com> I might also suggest, if you know braille, to acquire and or use a braille display with your computer. This, depending on style, could increase your reading speed. Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association of blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: > > Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure > most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely > helpful. > I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to > Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: > Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology > is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific > features such as > reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding > text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT > presentations with > graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm > which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. > Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for > reading long 50-100 page documents. > > Cheers, > Rahul > > > > >> On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Rahul, >> >> I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would >> you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great >> solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 >> points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. >> I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy >> material. >> >> Cindy >> >>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >>> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >>> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi Rahul, >>>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may >>>> have >>>> more. >>>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >>>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >>>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so >>>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work >>>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >>>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's >>>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >>>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use control-shift-apostrophe. >>>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >>>> instead of in PDF format. >>>> >>>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>>> three >>>>> things I'd keep in mind. >>>>> >>>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>>> things >>>>> done quickly. >>>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so does >>>>> using assistive tech. >>>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to do >>>>> the >>>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>>>> better. >>>>> I >>>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>>> slower/less >>>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement >>>>> and >>>>> a >>>>> good attitude. >>>>> >>>>> Best >>>>> Derek >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >>>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>>>> fact >>>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>>>>> which >>>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be >>>>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>>> often >>>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to >>>>>> work >>>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>>> counterparts >>>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option >>>>>> in >>>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work >>>>>> well >>>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of >>>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>>>> raised >>>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work >>>>>> as >>>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. >>>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >>>>>> has >>>>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a >>>>>> similar experience? >>>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >>>>>> this >>>>>> challenge? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >> Federation of the Blind of Washington >> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Aug 23 13:01:47 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 06:01:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <53f79b0c.e42a8c0a.7956.052eSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Good morning, Sean, Yeh, I know the Federation doesn't usually count as "legitimate" blind ppeople whom just might have more to their story than just blindness. being built for comfort, not for speed, or perfection. in virtually all employment in school context I am able to keep up with or surpass my cited peers in my computer efficiency. Granted this is basically just working with Outlook, Word, and Excel. I understand that when you get into more complicated software applications different difficulties present themselves. But for a lot of the work equal efficiency is very real as a feasible objective. As has been mentioned, it would be helpful if you could point out some of the places where you're struggling to better determine what the issue is. Again, it could well be that the software just does not interface well and you are legitimately at a disadvantage. But I would caution us all against jumping to that conclusion from the outset. Thanks! >Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:33 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l > wrote: > > > > Good afternoon, Rahul, > > > > Let it go! You're tormenting yourself unnecessarily, with > these demands that are, as far as I know, unrealistic!Ol'Sighty as > I am faund of referring to sighted people, work more smoothly > because, unlike us, they have access to eyesight so don't need a > screenreader. This won't change so you need not torture yourself > over a reality that will always dominate your experience. > > for today, Car > > > > can primarily be attributed to the fact that I have so far been > merely a casual user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I > am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a > professional setting. > >> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws > is often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually > impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. > >> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted > counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a > feasible option in the private sector where you are not only > required to do your work well but are also expected to complete > your tasks expeditiously. > >> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a > source of frustration for me during my internships. My employers > have never raised any objections about my inability to complete the > same amount of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time > period. I guess this is reflective of the low expectations that > society has from blind people. > >> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction > and has been a major cause of concern. > >> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here > had a similar experience? > >> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling > with this challenge? > >> > >> Best, > >> Rahul > >> > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/smwhalenpsp%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 14:34:33 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 08:34:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <53f890d2.8489e00a.2d4c.ffffd573SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <53f79b0c.e42a8c0a.7956.052eSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <53f890d2.8489e00a.2d4c.ffffd573SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Karlee, I was going to argue your point… but you have just enough of the point that I won't. However, Rahul asked for suggestions, quite clearly, in the context of his blindness. The fact that you bring up multiple disabilities, however valid your point maybe, in this particular conversation where it is, as far as we know, totally irrelevant tells me that you have a real axe to grind and, on a purely emotional level, that makes it harder for me to take you seriously which is tragic because you do have a point. Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 23, 2014, at 7:01 AM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l wrote: > > Good morning, Sean, > > Yeh, I know the Federation doesn't usually count as "legitimate" blind ppeople whom just might have more to their story than just blindness. being built for comfort, not for speed, or perfection. in virtually all employment in school context I am able to keep up with or surpass my cited peers in my computer efficiency. Granted this is basically just working with Outlook, Word, and Excel. I understand that when you get into more complicated software applications different difficulties present themselves. But for a lot of the work equal efficiency is very real as a feasible objective. As has been mentioned, it would be helpful if you could point out some of the places where you're struggling to better determine what the issue is. Again, it could well be that the software just does not interface well and you are legitimately at a disadvantage. But I would caution us all against jumping to that conclusion from the outset. Thanks! > >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:33 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l wrote: >> > >> > Good afternoon, Rahul, >> > >> > Let it go! You're tormenting yourself unnecessarily, with these demands that are, as far as I know, unrealistic!Ol'Sighty as I am faund of referring to sighted people, work more smoothly because, unlike us, they have access to eyesight so don't need a screenreader. This won't change so you need not torture yourself over a reality that will always dominate your experience. >> > for today, Car >> > >> > can primarily be attributed to the fact that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a professional setting. >> >> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >> >> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >> >> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. >> >> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has been a major cause of concern. >> >> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a similar experience? >> >> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this challenge? >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/smwhalenpsp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From kmaent1 at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 17:22:01 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 13:22:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity Message-ID: <53f8cdcf.47de320a.0dbc.30bc@mx.google.com> Hi Carly, I don't know what experiences you might have had with people in the Federation, but that certainly doesn't reflect the Federation I know. Perhaps having additional disabilities makes it difficult to have productivity equal to a sighted person's, but I'm somewhat skeptical of that because of the history of people assuming that blindness alone prevents people from being productive. Best, Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Good afternoon, Rahul, Let it go! You're tormenting yourself unnecessarily, with these demands that are, as far as I know, unrealistic!Ol'Sighty as I am faund of referring to sighted people, work more smoothly because, unlike us, they have access to eyesight so don't need a screenreader. This won't change so you need not torture yourself over a reality that will always dominate your experience. for today, Car can primarily be attributed to the fact that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a professional setting. That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has been a major cause of concern. I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a similar experience? What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this challenge? Best, Rahul Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co mcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/smwhalenpsp%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma il.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 05:53:19 2014 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 23:53:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] google sites Message-ID: <410E7976-E612-4F7C-B2C5-E71861CB4334@gmail.com> does anyone know if google sites is accessible? I'm taking a technology for teachers type of class, and I need to make a site on google sites. I'll leave the question there for the time being. From codeofdusk at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 13:00:19 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 09:00:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] google sites In-Reply-To: <410E7976-E612-4F7C-B2C5-E71861CB4334@gmail.com> References: <410E7976-E612-4F7C-B2C5-E71861CB4334@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04a401cfbf9b$5c6e6ad0$154b4070$@gmail.com> Probably, but you'll need to use Chrome Vox in Chrome for best results. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Valerie Gibson via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 1:53 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] google sites does anyone know if google sites is accessible? I'm taking a technology for teachers type of class, and I need to make a site on google sites. I'll leave the question there for the time being. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Sun Aug 24 13:29:46 2014 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 09:29:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] google sites In-Reply-To: <04a401cfbf9b$5c6e6ad0$154b4070$@gmail.com> References: <410E7976-E612-4F7C-B2C5-E71861CB4334@gmail.com> <04a401cfbf9b$5c6e6ad0$154b4070$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53F9E8CA.9010901@tysdomain.com> No, you will not need to use chromevox for best results. Yes, it is moderatly accessible last I played with it. On 8/24/2014 9:00 AM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > Probably, but you'll need to use Chrome Vox in Chrome for best results. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Valerie Gibson > via nabs-l > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 1:53 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] google sites > > does anyone know if google sites is accessible? > > I'm taking a technology for teachers type of class, and I need to make a > site on google sites. > > I'll leave the question there for the time being. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From dandrews at visi.com Sun Aug 24 22:26:24 2014 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 17:26:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> Message-ID: There have been some good suggestions in this thread. It isn't easy, and one of the deep dark secrets of blindness is that in some specific tasks, we may not be as efficient. At least this is my opinion. However, in the balance of things, with most jobs, which have a variety of tasks, things tend to even out. However, a person needs to pay attention, may need to employ tactics like task sharing or task trading, with colleagues to even up things. Also, most blind people working today need to be good with their assistive technology, and need a variety of skills to survive. Unfortunately school systems, and rehab agencies often don't adequately prepare their students for college and/or the real world. A person needs a way to take notes and keep up with lectures, meetings, teleconferences etc. This is not something you should request an accomodation for. It is a fundamental skill that others master if they survive. At least this is how I see it. Dave At 02:19 PM 8/22/2014, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as >my sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to >the fact that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive >technology which is perhaps why I am not able to use it as >expeditiously as I should be able to in a professional setting. >That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually >impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a >feasible option in the private sector where you are not only >required to do your work well but are also expected to complete your >tasks expeditiously. >My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source >of frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >raised any objections about my inability to complete the same amount >of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I >guess this is reflective of the low expectations that society has >from blind people. >Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >has been a major cause of concern. >I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had >a similar experience? >What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >this challenge? > >Best, >Rahul David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Aug 24 22:55:05 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:55:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: <53F6BEE1.6070808@tysdomain.com> References: <005901cfbdba$d60740c0$8215c240$@gmail.com> <53F6BEE1.6070808@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: hi, so what's chromevox? if it’s a screen reader just for google, I agree. Google needs to get on the accessibility bandwagon. -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 11:54 PM To: Bill K. Dengler ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. chromevox is far from intuitive. I also am not really thrilled about the idea of a self-voicing shell on top of a web browser to make sites that should already be accessible more accessible. Jaws 14 is much better with this since Google has been all over aria lately, I hear jaws 15 has better a11y support as well, but I've not tried it as of yet. On 8/21/2014 11:40 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > What about Google Chrome/Chrome vox? I've always been able to access > Google > Docs/Sheets/Slides that way. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > via nabs-l > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:05 PM > To: Katie Wang; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is > Good, etc. > > Hi all, > > Thanks for the suggestions, and I'll particularly check out the article > Katie Wang just posted for ideas. > > I think most of the time we use the spreadsheet feature on Google apps. I > tried to use this last year, along with the accessibility tips in Google > help files, and had significant problems with it. It was much easier to > use > Windows magnifier to read the screen visually, which in itself didn't make > the task very easy and strained my eyes after a few minutes. We also use > the calendar, and this has worked a little better for me once I manage to > get the events to display in list format rather than in calendar view. > using Jaws 13 I had issues getting to the button to make this view change, > but I have always used IE, which could have been the issue there. > > Like I said, google forms for surveys, and of course gmail, have worked > fine > for me. I can't really use the dropbox idea, which is unfortunate because > as easy as it would make life for me, it wouldn't be easy for the file to > be > continuously updated by various chapter members, and I would also be > subject > to missing information due to not having access to those updates if the > person in charge of updating the dropbox file forgot. Like I said the 20 > something other girls in the chapter already have their system, so we're > trying to find ways to make it accessible for me with the existing > platforms > we have rather than to change platforms entirely for the chapter. I would > love to use dropbox though rather than Google drive, and will probably see > if it can be managed for a committee, or projects I may undertake with a > small group of people. > > When is Good is still going to be problematic. Does anyone know of work > arounds for that? I've been sending my schedule and availability to > people > who send out the surveys, but I always feel a little awkward about it > because I know sometimes there is other information listed in the survey > that I am not privy to. E.G, only certain meeting times will be shown as > possible options, or the survey creator will put a note in the survey for > people to read that I miss out on. I'll keep sending my availability via > email if I have to, but if anyone has happened to find a way to make When > is > Good work, or has found a comparable service that is accessible I can tell > my chapter about, I would really appreciate it. > > On 8/21/14, Katie Wang via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Kaiti, >> >> I recently came across the following blog post about the accessibility >> of Google apps. According to the author (and a number of other blind >> people I know), most features of Google apps are actually now >> relatively accessible. I haven't personally had a chance to test out >> the tips/suggestions mentioned here but hope you will find them >> helpful. Good luck! >> http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/07/08/accessibility-in-google-apps-an-ove >> rview/ >> >> Best, >> Katie >> >> >> On 8/21/14, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> >>> Can you give a little bit more information about which features of >>> google drive you are having problems with? I've been figuring out the >>> functions of google drive bit by bit and have found that although a >>> little challenging at times, most of the apps are accessible. From my >>> experience, firefox seems to work best with the suite of apps; I'm >>> using Jaws 13 but have also used it with Jaws 14. >>> >>> Minh >>> >>> On 8/21/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Kaity >>>> >>>> This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel >>>> worksheets with the desktop app? >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi NABS, >>>>> >>>>> I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to organize >>>>> events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up sheets for >>>>> bake sales and other table activities, etc. We also frequently use >>>>> the site When is Good to find times for committee meetings and >>>>> other small groups to get together to work on projects. As you all >>>>> know, this creates an accessibility nightmare for me, since I can't >>>>> access any of the information easily. While I didn't have much >>>>> success in working with last year's exec board to work around these >>>>> issues, the president for this year and I have met and discussed >>>>> these problems. Though she has no prior experience with these >>>>> issues and is just another student, she is willing to help me look >>>>> into other options which might make it easier for me to have access >>>>> to the chapter information. She has expressed interest in reaching >>>>> out to the Office of Learning Resources where our disability staff >>>>> works, and seems to be making a good effort, for which I am really > appreciative. >>>>> However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we might >>>>> face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems aren't >>>>> available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. >>>>> Last year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for >>>>> years, and that's the system we've already set up, so just do the >>>>> best you can with it." I had a job in the fraternity which >>>>> required me to use a Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups >>>>> for events, and it was very difficult for me to give back to the >>>>> fraternity to the best of my ability because of that technical >>>>> problem and the accessibility issues. The president knows I am >>>>> completely capable of being a valuable asset to the fraternity, and >>>>> that if given the proper access to the tools we use I could do a >>>>> fine job of organizing and/or leading projects alongside my sisters. >>>>> >>>>> Though I will be living in the house with her and several other >>>>> exec board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon >>>>> them to complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I >>>>> think that I could use my living situation to closely work with >>>>> these board members to educate them about the accessibility issues >>>>> I have with Google and to work for a positive solution to the >>>>> problem. I am asking if anyone on this list has found work arounds >>>>> for using Google docs and When is Good forms in these situations. >>>>> So far the only thing I've managed to work out is the google forms >>>>> app we use to take surveys for the chapter, but not having access >>>>> to things like sign up sheets and the calendar are really big >>>>> problems I hope to solve this year. Any suggestions would be great. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the >>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was > vanity: >>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gma >>> il.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From codeofdusk at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 22:58:08 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:58:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <005901cfbdba$d60740c0$8215c240$@gmail.com> <53F6BEE1.6070808@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <053c01cfbfee$e0255b60$a0701220$@gmail.com> >From http://chromevox.com : "ChromeVox is a screen reader for Chrome which brings the speed, versatility, and security of Chrome to visually impaired users." Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 6:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. hi, so what's chromevox? if it’s a screen reader just for google, I agree. Google needs to get on the accessibility bandwagon. -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 11:54 PM To: Bill K. Dengler ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When is Good, etc. chromevox is far from intuitive. I also am not really thrilled about the idea of a self-voicing shell on top of a web browser to make sites that should already be accessible more accessible. Jaws 14 is much better with this since Google has been all over aria lately, I hear jaws 15 has better a11y support as well, but I've not tried it as of yet. On 8/21/2014 11:40 PM, Bill K. Dengler via nabs-l wrote: > What about Google Chrome/Chrome vox? I've always been able to access > Google Docs/Sheets/Slides that way. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton via nabs-l > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:05 PM > To: Katie Wang; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility work arounds for Google Docs, When > is Good, etc. > > Hi all, > > Thanks for the suggestions, and I'll particularly check out the > article Katie Wang just posted for ideas. > > I think most of the time we use the spreadsheet feature on Google > apps. I tried to use this last year, along with the accessibility > tips in Google help files, and had significant problems with it. It > was much easier to use Windows magnifier to read the screen visually, > which in itself didn't make the task very easy and strained my eyes > after a few minutes. We also use the calendar, and this has worked a > little better for me once I manage to get the events to display in > list format rather than in calendar view. > using Jaws 13 I had issues getting to the button to make this view > change, but I have always used IE, which could have been the issue there. > > Like I said, google forms for surveys, and of course gmail, have > worked fine for me. I can't really use the dropbox idea, which is > unfortunate because as easy as it would make life for me, it wouldn't > be easy for the file to be continuously updated by various chapter > members, and I would also be subject to missing information due to not > having access to those updates if the person in charge of updating the > dropbox file forgot. Like I said the 20 something other girls in the > chapter already have their system, so we're trying to find ways to > make it accessible for me with the existing platforms we have rather > than to change platforms entirely for the chapter. I would love to > use dropbox though rather than Google drive, and will probably see if > it can be managed for a committee, or projects I may undertake with a > small group of people. > > When is Good is still going to be problematic. Does anyone know of > work arounds for that? I've been sending my schedule and availability > to people who send out the surveys, but I always feel a little awkward > about it because I know sometimes there is other information listed in > the survey that I am not privy to. E.G, only certain meeting times > will be shown as possible options, or the survey creator will put a > note in the survey for people to read that I miss out on. I'll keep > sending my availability via email if I have to, but if anyone has > happened to find a way to make When is Good work, or has found a > comparable service that is accessible I can tell my chapter about, I > would really appreciate it. > > On 8/21/14, Katie Wang via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Kaiti, >> >> I recently came across the following blog post about the >> accessibility of Google apps. According to the author (and a number >> of other blind people I know), most features of Google apps are >> actually now relatively accessible. I haven't personally had a chance >> to test out the tips/suggestions mentioned here but hope you will >> find them helpful. Good luck! >> http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/07/08/accessibility-in-google-apps-an-ov >> e >> rview/ >> >> Best, >> Katie >> >> >> On 8/21/14, minh ha via nabs-l wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> >>> Can you give a little bit more information about which features of >>> google drive you are having problems with? I've been figuring out >>> the functions of google drive bit by bit and have found that >>> although a little challenging at times, most of the apps are >>> accessible. From my experience, firefox seems to work best with the >>> suite of apps; I'm using Jaws 13 but have also used it with Jaws 14. >>> >>> Minh >>> >>> On 8/21/14, Sofia Gallo via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Kaity >>>> >>>> This isn't a work around, but what about dropbox? I use Exel >>>> worksheets with the desktop app? >>>> >>>> Sofia >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi NABS, >>>>> >>>>> I'm in a fraternity which relies heavily on Google Apps to >>>>> organize events, set up calendars for the chapter, make sign up >>>>> sheets for bake sales and other table activities, etc. We also >>>>> frequently use the site When is Good to find times for committee >>>>> meetings and other small groups to get together to work on >>>>> projects. As you all know, this creates an accessibility >>>>> nightmare for me, since I can't access any of the information >>>>> easily. While I didn't have much success in working with last >>>>> year's exec board to work around these issues, the president for >>>>> this year and I have met and discussed these problems. Though she >>>>> has no prior experience with these issues and is just another >>>>> student, she is willing to help me look into other options which >>>>> might make it easier for me to have access to the chapter >>>>> information. She has expressed interest in reaching out to the >>>>> Office of Learning Resources where our disability staff works, and >>>>> seems to be making a good effort, for which I am really > appreciative. >>>>> However, the president and I agreed that one of the issues we >>>>> might face if alternative ways of accessing the existing systems >>>>> aren't available to me, might be getting the chapter to make changes. >>>>> Last year the big issue was, "We've been using google docs for >>>>> years, and that's the system we've already set up, so just do the >>>>> best you can with it." I had a job in the fraternity which >>>>> required me to use a Google Docs spreadsheet to monitor sign ups >>>>> for events, and it was very difficult for me to give back to the >>>>> fraternity to the best of my ability because of that technical >>>>> problem and the accessibility issues. The president knows I am >>>>> completely capable of being a valuable asset to the fraternity, >>>>> and that if given the proper access to the tools we use I could do >>>>> a fine job of organizing and/or leading projects alongside my sisters. >>>>> >>>>> Though I will be living in the house with her and several other >>>>> exec board members this year, I do not want to have to rely upon >>>>> them to complete when is good forms and to check the calendar. I >>>>> think that I could use my living situation to closely work with >>>>> these board members to educate them about the accessibility issues >>>>> I have with Google and to work for a positive solution to the >>>>> problem. I am asking if anyone on this list has found work >>>>> arounds for using Google docs and When is Good forms in these situations. >>>>> So far the only thing I've managed to work out is the google forms >>>>> app we use to take surveys for the chapter, but not having access >>>>> to things like sign up sheets and the calendar are really big >>>>> problems I hope to solve this year. Any suggestions would be great. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%4 >>>>> 0 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gm >>>> a >>>> il.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the >>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was > vanity: >>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gm >>> a >>> il.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> % >> 40gmail.com >> > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. > com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Aug 24 23:10:22 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 19:10:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D503BC0C4014FC8A384AC0F6F8465A0@OwnerPC> Hello Rahul, I agree with Chris. It is also difficult for me to type, listen to my screen reader, and speak to another person. I would strongly urge you to use a braille notetaker in meetings for notes. if not a notetaker, can you get a braille display? I know you live outside the US, and its expensive, but if at all possible, hooking a display to your pc will eliminate the need to listen to the pc screen reader. If its not in a meeting, you can ask people to stop while you write a few notes. Sighted people do this as well. Also, if you are the only one reading the notes, assuming you know braille, a old fashioned perkins brailler can work too. Good luck. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 1:50 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking Hi all, I hope this message finds you well. I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking with my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in meetings. I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly reduces my productivity. Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys for overcoming this challenge? I look forward to reading your responses. Best, Rahul _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Aug 24 23:11:31 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 19:11:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking In-Reply-To: <201408221406.1xkTem25B3Nl34p0@mx-limpkin.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <201408221406.1xkTem25B3Nl34p0@mx-limpkin.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5632263948ED4EE3B56ED1D3D09AC932@OwnerPC> Carley, this cannot always work. not all meetings can be recorded. it’s a legal thing. you cannot record without permission. He needs to have a way to write then, and there. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 2:06 PM To: Rahul Bajaj ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Typing While Talking Good morning, Rahul, What works for me, typically, is to record the session before entering the information therein, later. Then, you are not rushed, and your attention remains on client. Also, any audible responces of your client are documented, you can then make note of said responces if need be.. for today, CarAt 10:50 AM 8/22/2014, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l wrote: >Hi all, > >I hope this message finds you well. >I am often required to write a lot of material while I am talking with >my colleagues and to note down the stuff that is discussed in >meetings. >I find it very difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while >working with my screen reader, let alone while typing. This greatly >reduces my productivity. >Are there any tips that have worked particularly well for you guys for >overcoming this challenge? >I look forward to reading your responses. > >Best, >Rahul > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Aug 24 23:18:15 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 19:18:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <893F3C31346646248D43C0DA5665134A@OwnerPC> Rahul, It depends on what I'm doing. if its something using a word processor, I'm quite efficient. I say I can use Word, email, and powerpoint as well as my sighted colleagues. But, unfortunately, I agree it takes us longer to do some tasks. This Ii s due to the fact we cannot skim a screen with our screen readers. I especially think its more challenging to do research because webpages are loaded with info and we cannot scroll down to look for info. Now, if I visit a webpage a lot, there are tricks to navigate it once familiar including using a find command, placing place markers there, skipping to say the third heading with H if that is what I need, etc. But, I see what you're saying. if you have specific questions for us on what is slowing you down, I bet we can help. But, yes, using software can be a challege, especially with semi accessibility. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 3:19 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity Hi all, I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the fact that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a professional setting. That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has been a major cause of concern. I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a similar experience? What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this challenge? Best, Rahul Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Aug 24 23:20:00 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 19:20:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3D6985F14FB24B57A999C95C7649CA8D@OwnerPC> hi, wich jaws version do you have? I have the latest. I find that its very responsive to accessible programs. not sluggish at all. If you think its slow, call Freedom scientific for tech support and check your memory on your pc. Inaccessible software and dealing with multiple screens may slow you down, but jaws should not. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 3:19 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity Hi all, I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the fact that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a professional setting. That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. Most blind students get double the time that their sighted counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option in the private sector where you are not only required to do your work well but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never raised any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work as my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and has been a major cause of concern. I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a similar experience? What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with this challenge? Best, Rahul Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Aug 24 23:25:41 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 19:25:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com><5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Rahul, Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. use a reader for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to help. Go to page: control shiftN Next page: right arrow Prior page: left arrow. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely helpful. I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific features such as reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT presentations with graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for reading long 50-100 page documents. Cheers, Rahul On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Rahul, > > I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would > you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great > solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 > points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. > I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy > material. > > Cindy > > On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >> Arielle >> >> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Rahul, >>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may >>> have >>> more. >>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so >>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work >>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's >>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use control-shift-apostrophe. >>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >>> instead of in PDF format. >>> >>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>> three >>>> things I'd keep in mind. >>>> >>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>> things >>>> done quickly. >>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so does >>>> using assistive tech. >>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to do >>>> the >>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>>> better. >>>> I >>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>> slower/less >>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement >>>> and >>>> a >>>> good attitude. >>>> >>>> Best >>>> Derek >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>>> fact >>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>>>> which >>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be >>>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>> often >>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to >>>>> work >>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>> counterparts >>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option >>>>> in >>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work >>>>> well >>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of >>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>>> raised >>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work >>>>> as >>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. >>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >>>>> has >>>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a >>>>> similar experience? >>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >>>>> this >>>>> challenge? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National > Federation of the Blind of Washington > Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind > > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 23:44:56 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 17:44:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <37D59FBA-F96A-4C17-B2EE-A8B6EFDA13F9@gmail.com> Ashley, I have to disagree with you about doing research on webpages. While i'm convinced there are certain tasks which blindness does inherently make slower, as David said, The Internet does not have to be one of them. Certainly the vast majority of Academic journals, informational websites and pretty much everything else I've needed to find on the Internet I am able to find as fast or faster than the average sighted person. I think that's mostly because sighted people don't generally know how powerful and robust even the built in Windows keyboard commands can be when you really know how to use them well. I suppose blindness occasionally slows me down on the Internet because I can't quite see where a certain link is or whatever, but I think the ways in which jaws and windows keyboard commands speed me up more than compensate for this. Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > > Rahul, > Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. use a reader for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to help. > > Go to page: control shiftN > Next page: right arrow > Prior page: left arrow. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM > To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity > > Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure > most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely > helpful. > I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to > Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: > Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology > is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific > features such as > reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding > text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT > presentations with > graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm > which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. > Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for > reading long 50-100 page documents. > > Cheers, > Rahul > > > > >> On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Rahul, >> >> I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would >> you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great >> solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 >> points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. >> I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy >> material. >> >> Cindy >> >>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >>> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >>> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi Rahul, >>>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may >>>> have >>>> more. >>>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >>>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >>>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so >>>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work >>>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >>>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's >>>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >>>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use control-shift-apostrophe. >>>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >>>> instead of in PDF format. >>>> >>>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>>> three >>>>> things I'd keep in mind. >>>>> >>>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>>> things >>>>> done quickly. >>>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so does >>>>> using assistive tech. >>>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to do >>>>> the >>>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>>>> better. >>>>> I >>>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>>> slower/less >>>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement >>>>> and >>>>> a >>>>> good attitude. >>>>> >>>>> Best >>>>> Derek >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >>>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>>>> fact >>>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>>>>> which >>>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should be >>>>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>>> often >>>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to >>>>>> work >>>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>>> counterparts >>>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option >>>>>> in >>>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work >>>>>> well >>>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source of >>>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>>>> raised >>>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work >>>>>> as >>>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind people. >>>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >>>>>> has >>>>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had a >>>>>> similar experience? >>>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >>>>>> this >>>>>> challenge? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >> Federation of the Blind of Washington >> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 23:48:27 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 19:48:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <37D59FBA-F96A-4C17-B2EE-A8B6EFDA13F9@gmail.com> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> <37D59FBA-F96A-4C17-B2EE-A8B6EFDA13F9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003301cfbff5$e77dd570$b6798050$@gmail.com> He's right; I move internet pages so fast hat the screen turns white. I'm going to the next page after hitting enter on a link before he first is even fully loaded. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt via nabs-l Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:45 PM To: Ashley Bramlett; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity Ashley, I have to disagree with you about doing research on webpages. While i'm convinced there are certain tasks which blindness does inherently make slower, as David said, The Internet does not have to be one of them. Certainly the vast majority of Academic journals, informational websites and pretty much everything else I've needed to find on the Internet I am able to find as fast or faster than the average sighted person. I think that's mostly because sighted people don't generally know how powerful and robust even the built in Windows keyboard commands can be when you really know how to use them well. I suppose blindness occasionally slows me down on the Internet because I can't quite see where a certain link is or whatever, but I think the ways in which jaws and windows keyboard commands speed me up more than compensate for this. Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > > Rahul, > Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. use a reader for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to help. > > Go to page: control shiftN > Next page: right arrow > Prior page: left arrow. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM > To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity > > Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure > most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely > helpful. > I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to > Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: > Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology > is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific > features such as reading comments, footnotes and using track changes > in Word; finding text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing > long PPT presentations with graphs and charts; using the internal > applications designed by my firm which are almost always partly > inaccessible, etc. > Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for > reading long 50-100 page documents. > > Cheers, > Rahul > > > > >> On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Rahul, >> >> I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would >> you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great >> solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 >> points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. >> I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other >> heavy material. >> >> Cindy >> >>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >>> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >>> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >>> Arielle >>> >>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi Rahul, >>>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others >>>> may have more. >>>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS >>>> program and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing >>>> the speed should make reading line by line go faster. You don't >>>> want it to be so fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to >>>> work on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You >>>> can still do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the >>>> sighted person's efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those >>>> situations. There is nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use control-shift-apostrophe. >>>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in >>>> Word instead of in PDF format. >>>> >>>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>>> three things I'd keep in mind. >>>>> >>>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>>> things done quickly. >>>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so >>>>> does using assistive tech. >>>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be >>>>> to do the best you can under the circumstances and just look for >>>>> ways to do better. >>>>> I >>>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>>> slower/less hard than others. The main thing employers want to >>>>> see is improvement and a good attitude. >>>>> >>>>> Best >>>>> Derek >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity >>>>>> as my sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be >>>>>> attributed to the fact that I have so far been merely a casual >>>>>> user of assistive technology which is perhaps why I am not able >>>>>> to use it as expeditiously as I should be able to in a >>>>>> professional setting. >>>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>>> often unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually >>>>>> impossible to work with the same level of efficiency as a sighted >>>>>> person. >>>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>>> counterparts get for writing exams. However, this is not really a >>>>>> feasible option in the private sector where you are not only >>>>>> required to do your work well but are also expected to complete >>>>>> your tasks expeditiously. >>>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a >>>>>> source of frustration for me during my internships. My employers >>>>>> have never raised any objections about my inability to complete >>>>>> the same amount of work as my sighted counterparts within a given >>>>>> time period. I guess this is reflective of the low expectations >>>>>> that society has from blind people. >>>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction >>>>>> and has been a major cause of concern. >>>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here >>>>>> had a similar experience? >>>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling >>>>>> with this challenge? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd >>>>>> 16.law.harvard.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail. >>> com >> >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >> Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National >> Federation of the Blind >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%4 >> 0gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 23:53:13 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 16:53:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Hi all, I always thought it was a little silly to talk about whether blind people work slower or faster than sighted people. The truth is that I don't time myself nor do I time my colleagues. And, any such argument assumes that all sighted people work at some uniform speed--which is not true. I might work slower on the Internet than a Web-savvy sighted person, but I can probably work faster than a sighted person with no computer traning. I can almost definitely write a research report faster than a sighted 18-year-old who's neverwritten an APA-style research report before. And finally, speed isn't the only metric of success. Accuracy and thoroughness are equally important. I may not be able to skim a textbook easily, but by reading every sentence of a chapter, I am probably studying the information more deeply than somebody who quickly skims. Instead of trying to work as fast as some idealized sighted person, I think it's more important to focus on meeting the demands of a job and performing as well as possible. Some job tasks require adherence to deadlines, in which case efficiency does matter. But then the goal should be to adhere to the deadline, not to race an idealized sighted employee to the finish. Arielle On 8/24/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > Rahul, > Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. > unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. use a reader > > for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to > help. > > Go to page: control shiftN > Next page: right arrow > Prior page: left arrow. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM > To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity > > Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure > most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely > helpful. > I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to > Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: > Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology > is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific > features such as > reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding > text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT > presentations with > graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm > which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. > Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for > reading long 50-100 page documents. > > Cheers, > Rahul > > > > > On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Rahul, >> >> I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would >> you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great >> solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 >> points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. >> I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy >> material. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >>> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >>> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi Rahul, >>>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may >>>> have >>>> more. >>>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >>>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >>>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so >>>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work >>>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >>>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's >>>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >>>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use >>>> control-shift-apostrophe. >>>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >>>> instead of in PDF format. >>>> >>>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>>> three >>>>> things I'd keep in mind. >>>>> >>>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>>> things >>>>> done quickly. >>>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so >>>>> does >>>>> using assistive tech. >>>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to >>>>> do >>>>> the >>>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>>>> better. >>>>> I >>>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>>> slower/less >>>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement >>>>> and >>>>> a >>>>> good attitude. >>>>> >>>>> Best >>>>> Derek >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >>>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>>>> fact >>>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>>>>> which >>>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>>> often >>>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to >>>>>> work >>>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>>> counterparts >>>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option >>>>>> in >>>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work >>>>>> well >>>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source >>>>>> of >>>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>>>> raised >>>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work >>>>>> as >>>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind >>>>>> people. >>>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >>>>>> has >>>>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had >>>>>> a >>>>>> similar experience? >>>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >>>>>> this >>>>>> challenge? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >> Federation of the Blind of Washington >> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 00:03:46 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:03:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Arielle, As always, great points. Maybe I should rephrase my comment and say that navigating The Internet in general and doing online research in particular are things which I am fortunate enough to have a talent for. I'm totally blind, I'm far from the only blind person who has this particular skill with years of rigorous study and practice, so blindness in and of itself does not need to be a barrier to completing online research at a rate that is more than acceptable academically and professionally, Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2014, at 5:53 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > > I always thought it was a little silly to talk about whether blind > people work slower or faster than sighted people. The truth is that I > don't time myself nor do I time my colleagues. And, any such argument > assumes that all sighted people work at some uniform speed--which is > not true. I might work slower on the Internet than a Web-savvy sighted > person, but I can probably work faster than a sighted person with no > computer traning. I can almost definitely write a research report > faster than a sighted 18-year-old who's neverwritten an APA-style > research report before. And finally, speed isn't the only metric of > success. Accuracy and thoroughness are equally important. I may not be > able to skim a textbook easily, but by reading every sentence of a > chapter, I am probably studying the information more deeply than > somebody who quickly skims. > Instead of trying to work as fast as some idealized sighted person, I > think it's more important to focus on meeting the demands of a job and > performing as well as possible. Some job tasks require adherence to > deadlines, in which case efficiency does matter. But then the goal > should be to adhere to the deadline, not to race an idealized sighted > employee to the finish. > > Arielle > >> On 8/24/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >> Rahul, >> Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. >> unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. use a reader >> >> for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to >> help. >> >> Go to page: control shiftN >> Next page: right arrow >> Prior page: left arrow. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM >> To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity >> >> Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure >> most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely >> helpful. >> I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to >> Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: >> Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology >> is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific >> features such as >> reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding >> text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT >> presentations with >> graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm >> which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. >> Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for >> reading long 50-100 page documents. >> >> Cheers, >> Rahul >> >> >> >> >>> On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Rahul, >>> >>> I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would >>> you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great >>> solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 >>> points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. >>> I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy >>> material. >>> >>> Cindy >>> >>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >>>> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >>>> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi Rahul, >>>>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may >>>>> have >>>>> more. >>>>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >>>>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >>>>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so >>>>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>>>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work >>>>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >>>>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's >>>>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >>>>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>>>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use >>>>> control-shift-apostrophe. >>>>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>>>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >>>>> instead of in PDF format. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>>>> three >>>>>> things I'd keep in mind. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>>>> things >>>>>> done quickly. >>>>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so >>>>>> does >>>>>> using assistive tech. >>>>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to >>>>>> do >>>>>> the >>>>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>>>>> better. >>>>>> I >>>>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>>>> slower/less >>>>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement >>>>>> and >>>>>> a >>>>>> good attitude. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best >>>>>> Derek >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >>>>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>>>>> fact >>>>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>>>> often >>>>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>>>> counterparts >>>>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work >>>>>>> well >>>>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>>>>> raised >>>>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind >>>>>>> people. >>>>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> similar experience? >>>>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> challenge? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cindy Bennett >>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >>> Federation of the Blind of Washington >>> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 04:51:06 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 00:51:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com><5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <29DD0796C98D4AF19C45DCEB438A3A56@OwnerPC> Arielle, Right. I agree. We are definitely generalizing here. Sighted people certainly do not perform all at the same speed. I think my point is I do perform some tasks faster than other sighted people while some tasks are slower. Its an argument that never can be won. However, I still maintain my strong point that many computer tasks are slower because we cannot skim the screen. You all mention navigation keys for screen readers and windows. Well, I've been in many situations where that does not work. This only works if the web designer has it marked well with html codes like headings and lists. In this case, use the letter h for heading or l for next list. I also have found most databases have some accessibility issues; same with other academic journals, encyclopedias and magazines. Rahul, you mentioned needing footnotes. Although, I do not have the command offhand, there is a jaws command for footnotes and endnotes. If you need it, I can probably find that. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:53 PM To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity Hi all, I always thought it was a little silly to talk about whether blind people work slower or faster than sighted people. The truth is that I don't time myself nor do I time my colleagues. And, any such argument assumes that all sighted people work at some uniform speed--which is not true. I might work slower on the Internet than a Web-savvy sighted person, but I can probably work faster than a sighted person with no computer traning. I can almost definitely write a research report faster than a sighted 18-year-old who's neverwritten an APA-style research report before. And finally, speed isn't the only metric of success. Accuracy and thoroughness are equally important. I may not be able to skim a textbook easily, but by reading every sentence of a chapter, I am probably studying the information more deeply than somebody who quickly skims. Instead of trying to work as fast as some idealized sighted person, I think it's more important to focus on meeting the demands of a job and performing as well as possible. Some job tasks require adherence to deadlines, in which case efficiency does matter. But then the goal should be to adhere to the deadline, not to race an idealized sighted employee to the finish. Arielle On 8/24/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > Rahul, > Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. > unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. use a > reader > > for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to > help. > > Go to page: control shiftN > Next page: right arrow > Prior page: left arrow. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM > To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity > > Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure > most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely > helpful. > I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to > Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: > Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology > is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific > features such as > reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding > text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT > presentations with > graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm > which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. > Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for > reading long 50-100 page documents. > > Cheers, > Rahul > > > > > On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi Rahul, >> >> I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would >> you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great >> solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 >> points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. >> I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy >> material. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >>> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >>> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi Rahul, >>>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may >>>> have >>>> more. >>>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >>>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >>>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so >>>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work >>>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >>>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's >>>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >>>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use >>>> control-shift-apostrophe. >>>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >>>> instead of in PDF format. >>>> >>>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>>> three >>>>> things I'd keep in mind. >>>>> >>>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>>> things >>>>> done quickly. >>>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so >>>>> does >>>>> using assistive tech. >>>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to >>>>> do >>>>> the >>>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>>>> better. >>>>> I >>>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>>> slower/less >>>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement >>>>> and >>>>> a >>>>> good attitude. >>>>> >>>>> Best >>>>> Derek >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >>>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>>>> fact >>>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>>>>> which >>>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>>> often >>>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to >>>>>> work >>>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>>> counterparts >>>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option >>>>>> in >>>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work >>>>>> well >>>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source >>>>>> of >>>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>>>> raised >>>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work >>>>>> as >>>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind >>>>>> people. >>>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >>>>>> has >>>>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had >>>>>> a >>>>>> similar experience? >>>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >>>>>> this >>>>>> challenge? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >> Federation of the Blind of Washington >> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 07:17:38 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 03:17:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance Message-ID: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC> Hi all, Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have you run into these issues? Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been better in the past couple years. For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete databases do not let you change the combo box from the default and to read “or”. This means it would look for search terms A and B or search term C. Other challenges I’ve had are evaluating if the article is relevant. I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I read most of an article only to realize its not relevant. Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end up asking a reader to read them. What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask them where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked 1 on 1 with you? At the community college and my university, Marymount, they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They gave me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to write in the date range. These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? a.. Encyclopedia Britanica b.. Credo reference c.. Gale biography in context Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. How do you direct readers to find what you need? I’ve tried asking for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. Is skimming relevant chapters the best thing? Thanks. Ashley From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 08:10:29 2014 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 04:10:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC> References: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <99DFA1FE-ECC9-4417-A8E9-03FA12939DDB@gmail.com> Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is not so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless!! :-) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students. Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > > Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have you run into these issues? > > Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been better in the past couple years. > For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete databases do not let you change the combo box from the default and to read “or”. This means it would look for search terms A and B or search term C. > > Other challenges I’ve had are evaluating if the article is relevant. I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I read most of an article only to realize its not relevant. > Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end up asking a reader to read them. > > What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask them where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked 1 on 1 with you? At the community college and my university, Marymount, they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They gave me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to write in the date range. > > These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? > > a.. Encyclopedia Britanica > b.. Credo reference > c.. Gale biography in context > > > Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. > How do you direct readers to find what you need? I’ve tried asking for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. Is skimming relevant chapters the best thing? > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From sofiagallo13 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 11:33:22 2014 From: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com (Sofia Gallo) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 07:33:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: <99DFA1FE-ECC9-4417-A8E9-03FA12939DDB@gmail.com> References: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC> <99DFA1FE-ECC9-4417-A8E9-03FA12939DDB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5D0575A4-C631-43E2-8D60-19CD1DC09AF4@gmail.com> I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant but I thought this was true for everyone? Sofia Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is not so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless!! :-) > > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students. > Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have you run into these issues? >> >> Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been better in the past couple years. >> For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete databases do not let you change the combo box from the default and to read “or”. This means it would look for search terms A and B or search term C. >> >> Other challenges I’ve had are evaluating if the article is relevant. I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I read most of an article only to realize its not relevant. >> Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end up asking a reader to read them. >> >> What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask them where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked 1 on 1 with you? At the community college and my university, Marymount, they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They gave me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to write in the date range. >> >> These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? >> >> a.. Encyclopedia Britanica >> b.. Credo reference >> c.. Gale biography in context >> >> >> Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. >> How do you direct readers to find what you need? I’ve tried asking for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. Is skimming relevant chapters the best thing? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gmail.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 13:17:08 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:17:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: <5D0575A4-C631-43E2-8D60-19CD1DC09AF4@gmail.com> References: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC> <99DFA1FE-ECC9-4417-A8E9-03FA12939DDB@gmail.com> <5D0575A4-C631-43E2-8D60-19CD1DC09AF4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002301cfc066$e0176320$a0462960$@gmail.com> It just depends on what I am looking for; I take pieces parts of several articles, and just put them together into a research paper. It helps to no something about your topic. If you have no knowledge about a topic, get a book from nls to start you off, then fine your articles. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:33 AM To: Helga Schreiber; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant but I thought this was true for everyone? Sofia Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is not > so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God > bless!! :-) > > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students. > Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that > whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John > 3:16 Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have you run into these issues? >> >> Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been better in the past couple years. >> For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete databases do not let you change the combo box from the default and to read “or”. This means it would look for search terms A and B or search term C. >> >> Other challenges I’ve had are evaluating if the article is relevant. I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I read most of an article only to realize its not relevant. >> Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end up asking a reader to read them. >> >> What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask them where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked 1 on 1 with you? At the community college and my university, Marymount, they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They gave me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to write in the date range. >> >> These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? >> >> a.. Encyclopedia Britanica >> b.. Credo reference >> c.. Gale biography in context >> >> >> Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. >> How do you direct readers to find what you need? I’ve tried asking for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. Is skimming relevant chapters the best thing? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26 >> %40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 13:43:56 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:43:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: <002301cfc066$e0176320$a0462960$@gmail.com> References: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC> <99DFA1FE-ECC9-4417-A8E9-03FA12939DDB@gmail.com> <5D0575A4-C631-43E2-8D60-19CD1DC09AF4@gmail.com> <002301cfc066$e0176320$a0462960$@gmail.com> Message-ID: All, I think this is a fabulous topic! First, research skills are ones which are not necessarily intuitive, and which all successful college students learn to refine and perfect throughout their college career. Unfortunately, there are numerous accessibility barriers with databases and eBooks, which others have access too readily. Part of the answer, and Ashley, you are on the right track, is to learn how to most effectively use databases, and search tools like Google Scholar. Most universities have workshops that students can attend, and which focus specifically on research, many times even by topic. Through my senior year in college, it wasn't strange for a class, which had a major research paper do at the end of the semester, to have a class scheduled at the library, and have a reference librarian show us the tips and tricks. The other half of the equation, is to be creative with using your assistive software, a lot of times websites are inaccessible enough to be a nightmare, but sometimes there is a hidden work around, like using the different cursor modes in Jaws, right clicking instead of pressing enter, etc. This makes things more time consuming than they ought to be, but unfortunately, until we can get this trend of technology being developed inaccessibly reversed, we must live with that reality. As far as articles, that's part of research. You do your best to narrow down the material you get back by using good search terminology, by categorizing, by reading the abstract, but at one point you have to just read the articles. No one article is going to give you all the information your need, that's why you use so many citations at the end of the day, because one part of one paper may be of relevance, but the other twenty pages aren't. Good research takes time, and the better you get at it, the better you become at using that time more efficiently. As far as PDFs, I've been suggesting to students to ask for Adobe Pro from VR or to purchase it if possible. If you take the time to learn some accessibility remediation techniques with Adobe, many tutorials are available online, you can tag your own pdfs and fix reading order and navigation. It won't be perfect, but at least it'll make them legible. Kurzweil 1000 is also incredibly useful. If it's 2 AM and the paper is due in six hours, not that I've ever been there, you can save pdfs to your pc, run them through Kurzweil and that way the articles become legible if not perfect. Last, not all databases are created equal. Depending on your subject, you may want to filter through subjects when choosing databases, for the humanities I found EPSCO databases to be really accessible, Jstor, PsychInfo, the Oxford databases, and quite a few others were very good. And some won't be. There are so many tips and tricks to conducting research, so I strongly suggest seeing if a college does those research workshops, and just taking the time to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. Unfortunately, there isn't a universal answer when it comes to accessibility. We must advocate for manufacturers and universities to become responsible for only procuring and implementing accessible learning tools, but that's a battle that has to be fought outside the research library! Thanks. Mary On 8/25/14, justin williams via nabs-l wrote: > It just depends on what I am looking for; I take pieces parts of several > articles, and just put them together into a research paper. It helps to no > something about your topic. If you have no knowledge about a topic, get a > book from nls to start you off, then fine your articles. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo via > nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:33 AM > To: Helga Schreiber; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > > I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant but I > thought this was true for everyone? > > Sofia > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is not >> so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God >> bless!! :-) >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students. >> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have you run >>> into these issues? >>> >>> Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been better in >>> the past couple years. >>> For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete >>> databases do not let you change the combo box from the default and to >>> read "or". This means it would look for search terms A and B or search >>> term C. >>> >>> Other challenges I've had are evaluating if the article is relevant. I do >>> read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I read most of >>> an article only to realize its not relevant. >>> Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end up asking >>> a reader to read them. >>> >>> What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries have >>> reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask them where to >>> look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the databases and >>> electronic references? Has the librarians worked 1 on 1 with you? At the >>> community college and my university, Marymount, they did assist me a >>> little privately to get me started. They gave me specific instructions on >>> what to click on and which boxes to check to get what I needed. I needed >>> to limit to full text, for instance; also if I needed recent articles, I >>> was taught how to write in the date range. >>> >>> These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? >>> >>> a.. Encyclopedia Britanica >>> b.. Credo reference >>> c.. Gale biography in context >>> >>> >>> Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. >>> How do you direct readers to find what you need? I've tried asking for >>> headings and table of contents. This does not always work. Is skimming >>> relevant chapters the best thing? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26 >>> %40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gma >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From trillian551 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 13:53:56 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:53:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <29DD0796C98D4AF19C45DCEB438A3A56@OwnerPC> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> <29DD0796C98D4AF19C45DCEB438A3A56@OwnerPC> Message-ID: All, Arielle, excellent points. However, it is important to be as efficient as possible, and at least to be very competent at using assistive software. That's not so much for the sake of speed, but also, because when you run into accessibility issues, which inevitably you will, the more proficient you are with using assistive software, the most information you will be able to extract, even if the accessibility is awful. You will know work arounds, and commands which will make it possible to at least get something, if there is something to be gotten out of a page or software or whatever. Rahul, I wonder if the machine you are using is quite up to par for using Jaws. When I started at my current job, I had a rather aged laptop, which would constantly freeze and crash if I ran Adobe, Firefox and Jaws. I wasted hours just troubleshooting! Sometimes these problems come about for things you can't help, like the machine isn't quite doing its job. Maybe the IT person can have a look at the resources Jaws uses, and how the machine measures up to the resources needed. I am not techy at all, but at my job they did an evaluation of my machine and apparently, there was something with video and memory and stuff, once they switched laptops it all worked much better. A lot of professional software takes more resources than software we use at home, so a machine that works for regular life may not be great at the office. Anyway, just a thought. Thanks. Mary On 8/25/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > Arielle, > Right. I agree. We are definitely generalizing here. > Sighted people certainly do not perform all at the same speed. > I think my point is I do perform some tasks faster than other sighted people > > while some tasks are slower. > > Its an argument that never can be won. However, I still maintain my strong > point that many computer tasks are slower because we cannot skim the screen. > > You all mention navigation keys for screen readers and windows. Well, I've > been in many situations where that does not work. This only works if the web > > designer has it marked well with html codes like headings and lists. > In this case, use the letter h for heading or l for next > list. > > I also have found most databases have some accessibility issues; same > with > other academic journals, encyclopedias and magazines. > Rahul, > you mentioned needing > footnotes. Although, I do not have the command offhand, > there is a jaws command for footnotes and endnotes. If you need it, I can > probably find that. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:53 PM > To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity > > Hi all, > > I always thought it was a little silly to talk about whether blind > people work slower or faster than sighted people. The truth is that I > don't time myself nor do I time my colleagues. And, any such argument > assumes that all sighted people work at some uniform speed--which is > not true. I might work slower on the Internet than a Web-savvy sighted > person, but I can probably work faster than a sighted person with no > computer traning. I can almost definitely write a research report > faster than a sighted 18-year-old who's neverwritten an APA-style > research report before. And finally, speed isn't the only metric of > success. Accuracy and thoroughness are equally important. I may not be > able to skim a textbook easily, but by reading every sentence of a > chapter, I am probably studying the information more deeply than > somebody who quickly skims. > Instead of trying to work as fast as some idealized sighted person, I > think it's more important to focus on meeting the demands of a job and > performing as well as possible. Some job tasks require adherence to > deadlines, in which case efficiency does matter. But then the goal > should be to adhere to the deadline, not to race an idealized sighted > employee to the finish. > > Arielle > > On 8/24/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >> Rahul, >> Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. >> unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. use a >> reader >> >> for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to >> help. >> >> Go to page: control shiftN >> Next page: right arrow >> Prior page: left arrow. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM >> To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity >> >> Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure >> most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely >> helpful. >> I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to >> Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: >> Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology >> is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific >> features such as >> reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding >> text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT >> presentations with >> graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm >> which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. >> Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for >> reading long 50-100 page documents. >> >> Cheers, >> Rahul >> >> >> >> >> On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Rahul, >>> >>> I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would >>> you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great >>> solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 >>> points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. >>> I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy >>> material. >>> >>> Cindy >>> >>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >>>> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >>>> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi Rahul, >>>>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may >>>>> have >>>>> more. >>>>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >>>>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >>>>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so >>>>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>>>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work >>>>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >>>>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's >>>>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >>>>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>>>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use >>>>> control-shift-apostrophe. >>>>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>>>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >>>>> instead of in PDF format. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>>>> three >>>>>> things I'd keep in mind. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>>>> things >>>>>> done quickly. >>>>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so >>>>>> does >>>>>> using assistive tech. >>>>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to >>>>>> do >>>>>> the >>>>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>>>>> better. >>>>>> I >>>>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>>>> slower/less >>>>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is >>>>>> improvement >>>>>> and >>>>>> a >>>>>> good attitude. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best >>>>>> Derek >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>>>>> fact >>>>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>>>> often >>>>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>>>> counterparts >>>>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work >>>>>>> well >>>>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>>>>> raised >>>>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind >>>>>>> people. >>>>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> similar experience? >>>>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> challenge? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cindy Bennett >>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >>> Federation of the Blind of Washington >>> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From trillian551 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 13:55:47 2014 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:55:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: <002601cfc06b$e56d1a40$b0474ec0$@gmail.com> References: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC> <99DFA1FE-ECC9-4417-A8E9-03FA12939DDB@gmail.com> <5D0575A4-C631-43E2-8D60-19CD1DC09AF4@gmail.com> <002301cfc066$e0176320$a0462960$@gmail.com> <002601cfc06b$e56d1a40$b0474ec0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think Justin meant to send this to the whole list ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: justin williams Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:53:05 -0400 Subject: RE: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance To: Mary Fernandez I take each paper as a separate entity as far as accessibility is concerned. I take a day of two and just do the research. In other words, I have no intent to write the paper, but to simply get the articles I want and figure out my base for the paper. Folks, I spend 6 to 8 hours, but I get 6 to 7 articles and sometimes more, though I have found any more than about 9 or 10 more cumbersome then helpful. I work out all the accessibility issues before I do anything with writing the paper. Don't forget your nls books, or books on the blio. Sometimes the articles are pdfs, and other times they are web based; I try to stick to web based, but that is not always possible. Pdfs can be made accessible in a variety of ways, but sometimes, none of those ways are adequate; the article can still become unusable. I have found google scholar inaccessible for obtaining the articles, If someone has a tip for this, please share. I write down my citations for each articles and save them in a separate file. -----Original Message----- From: Mary Fernandez [mailto:trillian551 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:44 AM To: justin williams; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance All, I think this is a fabulous topic! First, research skills are ones which are not necessarily intuitive, and which all successful college students learn to refine and perfect throughout their college career. Unfortunately, there are numerous accessibility barriers with databases and eBooks, which others have access too readily. Part of the answer, and Ashley, you are on the right track, is to learn how to most effectively use databases, and search tools like Google Scholar. Most universities have workshops that students can attend, and which focus specifically on research, many times even by topic. Through my senior year in college, it wasn't strange for a class, which had a major research paper do at the end of the semester, to have a class scheduled at the library, and have a reference librarian show us the tips and tricks. The other half of the equation, is to be creative with using your assistive software, a lot of times websites are inaccessible enough to be a nightmare, but sometimes there is a hidden work around, like using the different cursor modes in Jaws, right clicking instead of pressing enter, etc. This makes things more time consuming than they ought to be, but unfortunately, until we can get this trend of technology being developed inaccessibly reversed, we must live with that reality. As far as articles, that's part of research. You do your best to narrow down the material you get back by using good search terminology, by categorizing, by reading the abstract, but at one point you have to just read the articles. No one article is going to give you all the information your need, that's why you use so many citations at the end of the day, because one part of one paper may be of relevance, but the other twenty pages aren't. Good research takes time, and the better you get at it, the better you become at using that time more efficiently. As far as PDFs, I've been suggesting to students to ask for Adobe Pro from VR or to purchase it if possible. If you take the time to learn some accessibility remediation techniques with Adobe, many tutorials are available online, you can tag your own pdfs and fix reading order and navigation. It won't be perfect, but at least it'll make them legible. Kurzweil 1000 is also incredibly useful. If it's 2 AM and the paper is due in six hours, not that I've ever been there, you can save pdfs to your pc, run them through Kurzweil and that way the articles become legible if not perfect. Last, not all databases are created equal. Depending on your subject, you may want to filter through subjects when choosing databases, for the humanities I found EPSCO databases to be really accessible, Jstor, PsychInfo, the Oxford databases, and quite a few others were very good. And some won't be. There are so many tips and tricks to conducting research, so I strongly suggest seeing if a college does those research workshops, and just taking the time to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. Unfortunately, there isn't a universal answer when it comes to accessibility. We must advocate for manufacturers and universities to become responsible for only procuring and implementing accessible learning tools, but that's a battle that has to be fought outside the research library! Thanks. Mary On 8/25/14, justin williams via nabs-l wrote: > It just depends on what I am looking for; I take pieces parts of > several articles, and just put them together into a research paper. > It helps to no something about your topic. If you have no knowledge > about a topic, get a book from nls to start you off, then fine your articles. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia > Gallo via nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:33 AM > To: Helga Schreiber; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > > I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant but I > thought this was true for everyone? > > Sofia > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is not >> so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God >> bless!! :-) >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students. >> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have you >>> run into these issues? >>> >>> Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been >>> better in the past couple years. >>> For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete >>> databases do not let you change the combo box from the default and >>> to read "or". This means it would look for search terms A and B or >>> search term C. >>> >>> Other challenges I've had are evaluating if the article is relevant. >>> I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I read >>> most of an article only to realize its not relevant. >>> Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end up >>> asking a reader to read them. >>> >>> What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries >>> have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask them >>> where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the >>> databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked 1 on >>> 1 with you? At the community college and my university, Marymount, >>> they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They gave >>> me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to >>> check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for >>> instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to write in the date range. >>> >>> These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? >>> >>> a.. Encyclopedia Britanica >>> b.. Credo reference >>> c.. Gale biography in context >>> >>> >>> Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. >>> How do you direct readers to find what you need? I've tried asking >>> for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. Is >>> skimming relevant chapters the best thing? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber2 >>> 6 >>> %40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gm >> a >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmai > l.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 14:00:28 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:00:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: References: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC> <99DFA1FE-ECC9-4417-A8E9-03FA12939DDB@gmail.com> <5D0575A4-C631-43E2-8D60-19CD1DC09AF4@gmail.com> <002301cfc066$e0176320$a0462960$@gmail.com> <002601cfc06b$e56d1a40$b0474ec0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002801cfc06c$ed983550$c8c89ff0$@gmail.com> Oops, How did that not go to the list? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:56 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance I think Justin meant to send this to the whole list ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: justin williams Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:53:05 -0400 Subject: RE: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance To: Mary Fernandez I take each paper as a separate entity as far as accessibility is concerned. I take a day of two and just do the research. In other words, I have no intent to write the paper, but to simply get the articles I want and figure out my base for the paper. Folks, I spend 6 to 8 hours, but I get 6 to 7 articles and sometimes more, though I have found any more than about 9 or 10 more cumbersome then helpful. I work out all the accessibility issues before I do anything with writing the paper. Don't forget your nls books, or books on the blio. Sometimes the articles are pdfs, and other times they are web based; I try to stick to web based, but that is not always possible. Pdfs can be made accessible in a variety of ways, but sometimes, none of those ways are adequate; the article can still become unusable. I have found google scholar inaccessible for obtaining the articles, If someone has a tip for this, please share. I write down my citations for each articles and save them in a separate file. -----Original Message----- From: Mary Fernandez [mailto:trillian551 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:44 AM To: justin williams; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance All, I think this is a fabulous topic! First, research skills are ones which are not necessarily intuitive, and which all successful college students learn to refine and perfect throughout their college career. Unfortunately, there are numerous accessibility barriers with databases and eBooks, which others have access too readily. Part of the answer, and Ashley, you are on the right track, is to learn how to most effectively use databases, and search tools like Google Scholar. Most universities have workshops that students can attend, and which focus specifically on research, many times even by topic. Through my senior year in college, it wasn't strange for a class, which had a major research paper do at the end of the semester, to have a class scheduled at the library, and have a reference librarian show us the tips and tricks. The other half of the equation, is to be creative with using your assistive software, a lot of times websites are inaccessible enough to be a nightmare, but sometimes there is a hidden work around, like using the different cursor modes in Jaws, right clicking instead of pressing enter, etc. This makes things more time consuming than they ought to be, but unfortunately, until we can get this trend of technology being developed inaccessibly reversed, we must live with that reality. As far as articles, that's part of research. You do your best to narrow down the material you get back by using good search terminology, by categorizing, by reading the abstract, but at one point you have to just read the articles. No one article is going to give you all the information your need, that's why you use so many citations at the end of the day, because one part of one paper may be of relevance, but the other twenty pages aren't. Good research takes time, and the better you get at it, the better you become at using that time more efficiently. As far as PDFs, I've been suggesting to students to ask for Adobe Pro from VR or to purchase it if possible. If you take the time to learn some accessibility remediation techniques with Adobe, many tutorials are available online, you can tag your own pdfs and fix reading order and navigation. It won't be perfect, but at least it'll make them legible. Kurzweil 1000 is also incredibly useful. If it's 2 AM and the paper is due in six hours, not that I've ever been there, you can save pdfs to your pc, run them through Kurzweil and that way the articles become legible if not perfect. Last, not all databases are created equal. Depending on your subject, you may want to filter through subjects when choosing databases, for the humanities I found EPSCO databases to be really accessible, Jstor, PsychInfo, the Oxford databases, and quite a few others were very good. And some won't be. There are so many tips and tricks to conducting research, so I strongly suggest seeing if a college does those research workshops, and just taking the time to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. Unfortunately, there isn't a universal answer when it comes to accessibility. We must advocate for manufacturers and universities to become responsible for only procuring and implementing accessible learning tools, but that's a battle that has to be fought outside the research library! Thanks. Mary On 8/25/14, justin williams via nabs-l wrote: > It just depends on what I am looking for; I take pieces parts of > several articles, and just put them together into a research paper. > It helps to no something about your topic. If you have no knowledge > about a topic, get a book from nls to start you off, then fine your articles. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia > Gallo via nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:33 AM > To: Helga Schreiber; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > > I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant but I > thought this was true for everyone? > > Sofia > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is not >> so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God >> bless!! :-) >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students. >> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have you >>> run into these issues? >>> >>> Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been >>> better in the past couple years. >>> For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete >>> databases do not let you change the combo box from the default and >>> to read "or". This means it would look for search terms A and B or >>> search term C. >>> >>> Other challenges I've had are evaluating if the article is relevant. >>> I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I read >>> most of an article only to realize its not relevant. >>> Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end up >>> asking a reader to read them. >>> >>> What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries >>> have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask them >>> where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the >>> databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked 1 on >>> 1 with you? At the community college and my university, Marymount, >>> they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They gave >>> me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to >>> check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for >>> instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to >>> write in the date range. >>> >>> These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? >>> >>> a.. Encyclopedia Britanica >>> b.. Credo reference >>> c.. Gale biography in context >>> >>> >>> Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. >>> How do you direct readers to find what you need? I've tried asking >>> for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. Is >>> skimming relevant chapters the best thing? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber2 >>> 6 >>> %40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gm >> a >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmai > l.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From cape.amanda at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 14:44:39 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:44:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Bt vs qt apex Message-ID: I was just approved for a Braillenote apex. Is the bt or qt better? Amanda From codeofdusk at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 15:04:07 2014 From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill K. Dengler) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 11:04:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Bt vs qt apex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008e01cfc075$fd8c2300$f8a46900$@gmail.com> What style of keyboard are you faster on? Personally, I type faster on a qwerty keyboard than in Braille, so in my case I'd get a qwerty model. But if you're faster at Braille get the bt. Bill -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:45 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Bt vs qt apex I was just approved for a Braillenote apex. Is the bt or qt better? Amanda _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com From kmaent1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 15:09:21 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 11:09:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Bt vs qt apex Message-ID: <53fb51bd.2a61320a.30a6.0ed6@mx.google.com> It depends on what you're used to typing on. I have a QT because when I first got a notetaker my parents thought it would be best for me only to need to learn one keyboard instead of one for the notetaker and one for the computer. I can type at least as fast on my QT as people can in Braille, but if your Braille typing speed is much higher than your QT typing speed, you should go with Braille--unless of course you want to train yourself to type quickly on a qwerty keyboard, which will also come in handy using a computer. If you have a real need for producing hardcopy Braille or Braille files a BT might be slightly easier, though you can always create a braille file on your QT and imput Braille with the home row. If you care more about producing things for sighted people or blind people using computers not note takers to read, you're probably better off with the QT because you don't have to worry about whether things are being correctly translated from Braille to text, which sometimes introduces errors. There are issues with things like shortform words if you write in Braille and translate to text, so for instance if you want to use an abbreviation like AC for air conditioning it will be translated from Braille to text as ACCORDING because the Braille for the two is the same. ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda via nabs-l References: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC> <99DFA1FE-ECC9-4417-A8E9-03FA12939DDB@gmail.com> <5D0575A4-C631-43E2-8D60-19CD1DC09AF4@gmail.com> <002301cfc066$e0176320$a0462960$@gmail.com> <002601cfc06b$e56d1a40$b0474ec0$@gmail.com> <002801cfc06c$ed983550$c8c89ff0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3B19A402-9AA3-4235-ACD2-504523F5D145@jd16.law.harvard.edu> I can't speak to the accessibility options but just generally, your research librarians are bored and would love to help you out. I rely on mine all the time. Also, I also tend to read a lot of articles that don't pan out so I also think this is pretty common. I'd also agree with the comment about needing to know something about the topic. My approach is to google/Wikipedia the topic or topics first. Then check my textbook if the topic is in there. Then I do a little searching. But if I get stuck, I turn to the research librarian pretty quickly to get moving. Best Derek PS I use zoom text so that is why I can't speak to the accessibility options. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 10:00 AM, justin williams via nabs-l wrote: > > Oops, How did that not go to the list? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez > via nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:56 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance > > I think Justin meant to send this to the whole list > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: justin williams > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:53:05 -0400 > Subject: RE: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > To: Mary Fernandez > > I take each paper as a separate entity as far as accessibility is concerned. > I take a day of two and just do the research. In other words, I have no > intent to write the paper, but to simply get the articles I want and figure > out my base for the paper. Folks, I spend 6 to 8 hours, but I get 6 to 7 > articles and sometimes more, though I have found any more than about 9 or 10 > more cumbersome then helpful. I work out all the accessibility issues > before I do anything with writing the paper. Don't forget your nls books, > or books on the blio. Sometimes the articles are pdfs, and other times they > are web based; I try to stick to web based, but that is not always possible. > Pdfs can be made accessible in a variety of ways, but sometimes, none of > those ways are adequate; the article can still become unusable. I have > found google scholar inaccessible for obtaining the articles, If someone has > a tip for this, please share. I write down my citations for each articles > and save them in a separate file. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Fernandez [mailto:trillian551 at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:44 AM > To: justin williams; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > > All, > I think this is a fabulous topic! First, research skills are ones which are > not necessarily intuitive, and which all successful college students learn > to refine and perfect throughout their college career. > Unfortunately, there are numerous accessibility barriers with databases and > eBooks, which others have access too readily. Part of the answer, and > Ashley, you are on the right track, is to learn how to most effectively use > databases, and search tools like Google Scholar. > Most universities have workshops that students can attend, and which focus > specifically on research, many times even by topic. Through my senior year > in college, it wasn't strange for a class, which had a major research paper > do at the end of the semester, to have a class scheduled at the library, and > have a reference librarian show us the tips and tricks. The other half of > the equation, is to be creative with using your assistive software, a lot of > times websites are inaccessible enough to be a nightmare, but sometimes > there is a hidden work around, like using the different cursor modes in > Jaws, right clicking instead of pressing enter, etc. This makes things more > time consuming than they ought to be, but unfortunately, until we can get > this trend of technology being developed inaccessibly reversed, we must live > with that reality. > As far as articles, that's part of research. You do your best to narrow down > the material you get back by using good search terminology, by categorizing, > by reading the abstract, but at one point you have to just read the > articles. No one article is going to give you all the information your need, > that's why you use so many citations at the end of the day, because one part > of one paper may be of relevance, but the other twenty pages aren't. Good > research takes time, and the better you get at it, the better you become at > using that time more efficiently. > As far as PDFs, I've been suggesting to students to ask for Adobe Pro from > VR or to purchase it if possible. If you take the time to learn some > accessibility remediation techniques with Adobe, many tutorials are > available online, you can tag your own pdfs and fix reading order and > navigation. It won't be perfect, but at least it'll make them legible. > Kurzweil 1000 is also incredibly useful. If it's 2 AM and the paper is due > in six hours, not that I've ever been there, you can save pdfs to your pc, > run them through Kurzweil and that way the articles become legible if not > perfect. > Last, not all databases are created equal. Depending on your subject, you > may want to filter through subjects when choosing databases, for the > humanities I found EPSCO databases to be really accessible, Jstor, > PsychInfo, the Oxford databases, and quite a few others were very good. And > some won't be. There are so many tips and tricks to conducting research, so > I strongly suggest seeing if a college does those research workshops, and > just taking the time to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. > Unfortunately, there isn't a universal answer when it comes to > accessibility. We must advocate for manufacturers and universities to become > responsible for only procuring and implementing accessible learning tools, > but that's a battle that has to be fought outside the research library! > Thanks. > Mary > > >> On 8/25/14, justin williams via nabs-l wrote: >> It just depends on what I am looking for; I take pieces parts of >> several articles, and just put them together into a research paper. >> It helps to no something about your topic. If you have no knowledge >> about a topic, get a book from nls to start you off, then fine your > articles. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia >> Gallo via nabs-l >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:33 AM >> To: Helga Schreiber; National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance >> >> I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant but I >> thought this was true for everyone? >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is not >>> so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God >>> bless!! :-) >>> >>> Helga Schreiber >>> >>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. >>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >>> Blind Students. >>> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). >>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. >>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>> >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >>> 3:16 Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have you >>>> run into these issues? >>>> >>>> Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been >>>> better in the past couple years. >>>> For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete >>>> databases do not let you change the combo box from the default and >>>> to read "or". This means it would look for search terms A and B or >>>> search term C. >>>> >>>> Other challenges I've had are evaluating if the article is relevant. >>>> I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I read >>>> most of an article only to realize its not relevant. >>>> Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end up >>>> asking a reader to read them. >>>> >>>> What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries >>>> have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask them >>>> where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the >>>> databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked 1 on >>>> 1 with you? At the community college and my university, Marymount, >>>> they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They gave >>>> me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to >>>> check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for >>>> instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to >>>> write in > the date range. >>>> >>>> These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? >>>> >>>> a.. Encyclopedia Britanica >>>> b.. Credo reference >>>> c.. Gale biography in context >>>> >>>> >>>> Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. >>>> How do you direct readers to find what you need? I've tried asking >>>> for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. Is >>>> skimming relevant chapters the best thing? >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber2 >>>> 6 >>>> %40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gm >>> a >>> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmai >> l.com > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what > you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what > you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From cape.amanda at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 15:12:29 2014 From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 11:12:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Bt vs qt apex In-Reply-To: <53fb51bd.2a61320a.30a6.0ed6@mx.google.com> References: <53fb51bd.2a61320a.30a6.0ed6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <204BCA1C-E75D-44AC-991E-32E4D6564E21@gmail.com> I'm used to both. That's y I can't decide. Amanda > On Aug 25, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Karl Martin Adam wrote: > > It depends on what you're used to typing on. I have a QT because when I first got a notetaker my parents thought it would be best for me only to need to learn one keyboard instead of one for the notetaker and one for the computer. I can type at least as fast on my QT as people can in Braille, but if your Braille typing speed is much higher than your QT typing speed, you should go with Braille--unless of course you want to train yourself to type quickly on a qwerty keyboard, which will also come in handy using a computer. If you have a real need for producing hardcopy Braille or Braille files a BT might be slightly easier, though you can always create a braille file on your QT and imput Braille with the home row. If you care more about producing things for sighted people or blind people using computers not note takers to read, you're probably better off with the QT because you don't have to worry about whether things are being correctly translated from Braille to text, which sometimes introduces errors. There are issues with things like shortform words if you write in Braille and translate to text, so for instance if you want to use an abbreviation like AC for air conditioning it will be translated from Braille to text as ACCORDING because the Braille for the two is the same. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Amanda via nabs-l To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:44:39 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Bt vs qt apex > > > > I was just approved for a Braillenote apex. Is the bt or qt better? > > Amanda > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma > il.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 15:38:35 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:38:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Bt vs qt apex In-Reply-To: <204BCA1C-E75D-44AC-991E-32E4D6564E21@gmail.com> References: <53fb51bd.2a61320a.30a6.0ed6@mx.google.com> <204BCA1C-E75D-44AC-991E-32E4D6564E21@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53FB587B.2010101@gmail.com> There's no definite yes/no anser on these, thus depending on our experiences, is the answers we'll give. For instance (talking about my experiences) though I'm good/fast at typing on a qwerty keyboard since that's what my parents started me on in 91 with Keysoft 1.32, I then progressed to a Braille Lite in 97/98, thus enjoying the joy of typing on a Braille Keyboard for a change! as my way of seeing things, each thing for its own (Laptop with qwerty and BrailleNote with braille); thus my Apex is the Braille-keyboard type; I find somehow I make less mistakes than typing on a qwerty keyboard. El 25/08/2014 10:12 a.m., Amanda via nabs-l escribió: > I'm used to both. That's y I can't decide. > > Amanda > >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Karl Martin Adam wrote: >> >> It depends on what you're used to typing on. I have a QT because when I first got a notetaker my parents thought it would be best for me only to need to learn one keyboard instead of one for the notetaker and one for the computer. I can type at least as fast on my QT as people can in Braille, but if your Braille typing speed is much higher than your QT typing speed, you should go with Braille--unless of course you want to train yourself to type quickly on a qwerty keyboard, which will also come in handy using a computer. If you have a real need for producing hardcopy Braille or Braille files a BT might be slightly easier, though you can always create a braille file on your QT and imput Braille with the home row. If you care more about producing things for sighted people or blind people using computers not note takers to read, you're probably better off with the QT because you don't have to worry about whether things are being correctly translated from Braille to text, which sometimes introduces errors. There are issues with things like shortform words if you write in Braille and translate to text, so for instance if you want to use an abbreviation like AC for air conditioning it will be translated from Braille to text as ACCORDING because the Braille for the two is the same. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Amanda via nabs-l> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list> Date sent: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:44:39 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Bt vs qt apex >> >> >> >> I was just approved for a Braillenote apex. Is the bt or qt better? >> >> Amanda >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >> il.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From gera1027 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 15:42:26 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:42:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Bt vs qt apex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53FB5962.5030904@gmail.com> wow congrats! because from what I've heard on here, sometimes blindness rehabilitation counselors can be a pain! Depending on whether the qwerty or Braille version? Depending on our expeirences, but for me, I find I make less misstakes on the Braille notetaker, thus as I see it, each for its own as i said earlier: laptop for qwerty and notetaker for Braille! Good luck and again congrats on your Apex! El 25/08/2014 09:44 a.m., Amanda via nabs-l escribió: > > I was just approved for a Braillenote apex. Is the bt or qt better? > > Amanda > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From matt.dierckens at me.com Mon Aug 25 16:21:39 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:21:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Bt vs qt apex In-Reply-To: <53FB5962.5030904@gmail.com> References: <53FB5962.5030904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <615E6F1C-4748-493B-9509-786199DF1725@me.com> I've played with a QT braille note a few times, and I personally like the BT better. Not because I grew up with braille style keyboards, I just find that I make less mistakes with the BT models. Is the way you get equipment in Quebec like how it is with ADP? God bless. :) Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Personal email: matt.diercken On Aug 25, 2014, at 11:42, Gerardo Corripio via nabs-l wrote: > wow congrats! because from what I've heard on here, sometimes blindness rehabilitation counselors can be a pain! Depending on whether the qwerty or Braille version? Depending on our expeirences, but for me, I find I make less misstakes on the Braille notetaker, thus as I see it, each for its own as i said earlier: laptop for qwerty and notetaker for Braille! Good luck and again congrats on your Apex! > > El 25/08/2014 09:44 a.m., Amanda via nabs-l escribió: >> >> I was just approved for a Braillenote apex. Is the bt or qt better? >> >> Amanda >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki > Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México > RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 16:26:57 2014 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 21:56:57 +0530 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> <29DD0796C98D4AF19C45DCEB438A3A56@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi all, At the outset, I would like to thank you all for sharing your insights and experiences. I will definitely strive to implement most of the suggestions that you guys have shared. I have already been using some of them, but I am sure some of the tricks that I wasn't aware of will be immensely beneficial to me. Arielle, while I partly agree with you, I think it is essential to remember that, in many contexts, your work is evaluated by using the time taken by your sighted colleagues to perform the same kind of work as a yardstick. Please remember that the deadlines that you speak of are also fixed by sighted people for sighted people. Implicit in the deadline is the assumption that an ideal sighted person would be able to complete the work within that deadline. The upshot of what I am saying is this: If you are not able to work as efficiently as your sighted colleagues, your employer may decide to allot all important tasks to your sighted colleagues and you may be left with either no work or with less meaningful and substantive work than your sighted colleagues. It is heartening to know that I am not the only one who is facing this problem. Over the years, I have consistently been required to work harder than my sighted peers in order to compete and, in some cases, perform better than them in academics, so I am mindful of the fact that some things will never be as easy for me as they are for a sighted person. During all my internships, the biggest challenge for me has been completing tasks that have to be completed within one working day such as writing short research notes, finding and summarizing cases on a specific issue (I am a law student), quickly reviewing long agreements, etc. Typically, you have to complete such tasks within 30-120 minutes. So, sometimes, the people who assign work to me are able to find what they are looking for long before I send my findings to them. It is a lot easier for me to complete more comprehensive assignments such as writing research articles, drafting agreements, etc. This is because one usually gets at least 3 to 5 days for completing such assignments. One way to circumvent this problem would be to ask my employers to assign substantive research and writing tasks to me which would allow me to showcase my strengths instead of assigning tasks where instant results are required. Would love to know what you all think about this. Best, Rahul On 25/08/2014, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l wrote: > All, > Arielle, excellent points. However, it is important to be as efficient > as possible, and at least to be very competent at using assistive > software. That's not so much for the sake of speed, but also, because > when you run into accessibility issues, which inevitably you will, the > more proficient you are with using assistive software, the most > information you will be able to extract, even if the accessibility is > awful. You will know work arounds, and commands which will make it > possible to at least get something, if there is something to be gotten > out of a page or software or whatever. Rahul, I wonder if the machine > you are using is quite up to par for using Jaws. When I started at my > current job, I had a rather aged laptop, which would constantly freeze > and crash if I ran Adobe, Firefox and Jaws. I wasted hours just > troubleshooting! Sometimes these problems come about for things you > can't help, like the machine isn't quite doing its job. Maybe the IT > person can have a look at the resources Jaws uses, and how the machine > measures up to the resources needed. I am not techy at all, but at my > job they did an evaluation of my machine and apparently, there was > something with video and memory and stuff, once they switched laptops > it all worked much better. A lot of professional software takes more > resources than software we use at home, so a machine that works for > regular life may not be great at the office. > Anyway, just a thought. > Thanks. > Mary > > > On 8/25/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >> Arielle, >> Right. I agree. We are definitely generalizing here. >> Sighted people certainly do not perform all at the same speed. >> I think my point is I do perform some tasks faster than other sighted >> people >> >> while some tasks are slower. >> >> Its an argument that never can be won. However, I still maintain my >> strong >> point that many computer tasks are slower because we cannot skim the >> screen. >> >> You all mention navigation keys for screen readers and windows. Well, >> I've >> been in many situations where that does not work. This only works if the >> web >> >> designer has it marked well with html codes like headings and lists. >> In this case, use the letter h for heading or l for next >> list. >> >> I also have found most databases have some accessibility issues; same >> with >> other academic journals, encyclopedias and magazines. >> Rahul, >> you mentioned needing >> footnotes. Although, I do not have the command offhand, >> there is a jaws command for footnotes and endnotes. If you need it, I can >> probably find that. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:53 PM >> To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity >> >> Hi all, >> >> I always thought it was a little silly to talk about whether blind >> people work slower or faster than sighted people. The truth is that I >> don't time myself nor do I time my colleagues. And, any such argument >> assumes that all sighted people work at some uniform speed--which is >> not true. I might work slower on the Internet than a Web-savvy sighted >> person, but I can probably work faster than a sighted person with no >> computer traning. I can almost definitely write a research report >> faster than a sighted 18-year-old who's neverwritten an APA-style >> research report before. And finally, speed isn't the only metric of >> success. Accuracy and thoroughness are equally important. I may not be >> able to skim a textbook easily, but by reading every sentence of a >> chapter, I am probably studying the information more deeply than >> somebody who quickly skims. >> Instead of trying to work as fast as some idealized sighted person, I >> think it's more important to focus on meeting the demands of a job and >> performing as well as possible. Some job tasks require adherence to >> deadlines, in which case efficiency does matter. But then the goal >> should be to adhere to the deadline, not to race an idealized sighted >> employee to the finish. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 8/24/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >>> Rahul, >>> Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. >>> unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. use a >>> reader >>> >>> for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to >>> help. >>> >>> Go to page: control shiftN >>> Next page: right arrow >>> Prior page: left arrow. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM >>> To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity >>> >>> Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure >>> most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely >>> helpful. >>> I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to >>> Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: >>> Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology >>> is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific >>> features such as >>> reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding >>> text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT >>> presentations with >>> graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm >>> which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. >>> Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for >>> reading long 50-100 page documents. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Hi Rahul, >>>> >>>> I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would >>>> you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great >>>> solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 >>>> points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. >>>> I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy >>>> material. >>>> >>>> Cindy >>>> >>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>>>> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >>>>> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >>>>> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi Rahul, >>>>>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may >>>>>> have >>>>>> more. >>>>>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >>>>>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >>>>>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be >>>>>> so >>>>>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>>>>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to >>>>>> work >>>>>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >>>>>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted >>>>>> person's >>>>>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >>>>>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>>>>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use >>>>>> control-shift-apostrophe. >>>>>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>>>>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >>>>>> instead of in PDF format. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>>>>> three >>>>>>> things I'd keep in mind. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> done quickly. >>>>>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so >>>>>>> does >>>>>>> using assistive tech. >>>>>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>>>>>> better. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>>>>> slower/less >>>>>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is >>>>>>> improvement >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> good attitude. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best >>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive >>>>>>>> technology >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>>>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>>>>> often >>>>>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>>>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>>>>> counterparts >>>>>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible >>>>>>>> option >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work >>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>>>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>>>>>> raised >>>>>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>>>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind >>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>>>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here >>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> similar experience? >>>>>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> challenge? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cindy Bennett >>>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >>>> Federation of the Blind of Washington >>>> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 16:37:19 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:37:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Statistical/data analysis software Message-ID: Hello Nabsters, This semester I will be taking a political analysis course relying heavily on data analysis. Our class will be using a program called SPSS to organize and analyze sets of data. My question, for those of you who have taken statistics or other quantative analysis courses, how accessible is SSPS? If this program will not work, is there an accessible alternative I will be able to use? Is there any more general advice I should be aware of in regards to statistical analysis with screen readers? Any help you could give me would be very much appreciated. Best, Kirt From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Mon Aug 25 16:54:11 2014 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:54:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Statistical/data analysis software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29E6B69C-9EC6-4347-9124-98BC082E99A2@jd16.law.harvard.edu> I found excel to be accessible and able to do most things you'd need to do. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Kirt Manwaring via nabs-l wrote: > > Hello Nabsters, > This semester I will be taking a political analysis course relying > heavily on data analysis. Our class will be using a program called > SPSS to organize and analyze sets of data. My question, for those of > you who have taken statistics or other quantative analysis courses, > how accessible is SSPS? If this program will not work, is there an > accessible alternative I will be able to use? Is there any more > general advice I should be aware of in regards to statistical analysis > with screen readers? Any help you could give me would be very much > appreciated. > Best, > Kirt > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Aug 25 17:08:09 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:08:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Good morning, my brother in blastoma, Kurt, Thank you for such a succinct and well-stated summary of what we're capable of. For, in my experience particularly with recently being saddled with an speed retarding brain damage, I often lose sight of this fact which, to many blind people ought to be common sense, you know, kind of a no big deal? hysterical in its obviousness? for today, Car 408-209-3239 , Kirt via nabs-l wrote: >Arielle, >As always, great points. Maybe I should rephrase my comment and say >that navigating The Internet in general and doing online research in >particular are things which I am fortunate enough to have a talent >for. I'm totally blind, I'm far from the only blind person who has >this particular skill with years of rigorous study and practice, so >blindness in and of itself does not need to be a barrier to >completing online research at a rate that is more than acceptable >academically and professionally, >Best, >Kirt > >Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 24, 2014, at 5:53 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I always thought it was a little silly to talk about whether blind > > people work slower or faster than sighted people. The truth is that I > > don't time myself nor do I time my colleagues. And, any such argument > > assumes that all sighted people work at some uniform speed--which is > > not true. I might work slower on the Internet than a Web-savvy sighted > > person, but I can probably work faster than a sighted person with no > > computer traning. I can almost definitely write a research report > > faster than a sighted 18-year-old who's neverwritten an APA-style > > research report before. And finally, speed isn't the only metric of > > success. Accuracy and thoroughness are equally important. I may not be > > able to skim a textbook easily, but by reading every sentence of a > > chapter, I am probably studying the information more deeply than > > somebody who quickly skims. > > Instead of trying to work as fast as some idealized sighted person, I > > think it's more important to focus on meeting the demands of a job and > > performing as well as possible. Some job tasks require adherence to > > deadlines, in which case efficiency does matter. But then the goal > > should be to adhere to the deadline, not to race an idealized sighted > > employee to the finish. > > > > Arielle > > > >> On 8/24/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > >> Rahul, > >> Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. > >> unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. > use a reader > >> > >> for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to > >> help. > >> > >> Go to page: control shiftN > >> Next page: right arrow > >> Prior page: left arrow. > >> > >> Ashley > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l > >> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM > >> To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity > >> > >> Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure > >> most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely > >> helpful. > >> I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to > >> Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: > >> Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology > >> is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific > >> features such as > >> reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding > >> text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT > >> presentations with > >> graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm > >> which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. > >> Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for > >> reading long 50-100 page documents. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Rahul > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: > >>> Hi Rahul, > >>> > >>> I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would > >>> you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great > >>> solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 > >>> points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. > >>> I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy > >>> material. > >>> > >>> Cindy > >>> > >>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > >>>> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an > >>>> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML > >>>> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. > >>>> Arielle > >>>> > >>>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>>>> Hi Rahul, > >>>>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may > >>>>> have > >>>>> more. > >>>>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program > >>>>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed > >>>>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so > >>>>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. > >>>>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work > >>>>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still > >>>>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's > >>>>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is > >>>>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. > >>>>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use > >>>>> control-shift-apostrophe. > >>>>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a > >>>>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word > >>>>> instead of in PDF format. > >>>>> > >>>>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! > >>>>> Arielle > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: > >>>>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are > >>>>>> three > >>>>>> things I'd keep in mind. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting > >>>>>> things > >>>>>> done quickly. > >>>>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so > >>>>>> does > >>>>>> using assistive tech. > >>>>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to > >>>>>> do > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do > >>>>>> better. > >>>>>> I > >>>>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work > >>>>>> slower/less > >>>>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> a > >>>>>> good attitude. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Best > >>>>>> Derek > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my > >>>>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the > >>>>>>> fact > >>>>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology > >>>>>>> which > >>>>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should > >>>>>>> be > >>>>>>> able to in a professional setting. > >>>>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is > >>>>>>> often > >>>>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to > >>>>>>> work > >>>>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. > >>>>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted > >>>>>>> counterparts > >>>>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work > >>>>>>> well > >>>>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. > >>>>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never > >>>>>>> raised > >>>>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is > >>>>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind > >>>>>>> people. > >>>>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and > >>>>>>> has > >>>>>>> been a major cause of concern. > >>>>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>> similar experience? > >>>>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with > >>>>>>> this > >>>>>>> challenge? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>> Rahul > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Cindy Bennett > >>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National > >>> Federation of the Blind of Washington > >>> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind > >>> > >>> clb5590 at gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 17:49:44 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:49:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: References: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC><99DFA1FE-ECC9-4417-A8E9-03FA12939DDB@gmail.com><5D0575A4-C631-43E2-8D60-19CD1DC09AF4@gmail.com><002301cfc066$e0176320$a0462960$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6183893C2F494385AD2B559EE374C338@OwnerPC> Hi Mary, Glad you think it’s a good topic. I have tried most of what you said. Great points on accessibility. I have run into access issues with ebooks and databases. Its been my experience as well that psychinfo and oxford databases are accessible. I've been in elective classes now. But in undergrad, we never had class days at the library like you mentioned. I suppose it was just the classes I took. I also have not found research workshops at the university, although I'll be on the lookout for that. I have openbook not kurzweil, so can someone tell me how to run pdfs through that? What do you get when purchasing the whole adobe pro suite? I thought most adobe products were not accessible, or that's what I heard. So, what accessibility would I gain other than the ability to convert to text? You said, "The other half of the equation, is to be creative with using your assistive software, a lot of times websites are inaccessible enough to be a nightmare, but sometimes there is a hidden work around, like using the different cursor modes in Jaws, right clicking instead of pressing enter, etc. This makes things more time consuming than they ought to be, but unfortunately, until we can get this trend of technology being developed inaccessibly reversed, we must live with that reality." Yes, I agree. I have used right click keystroke which has saved me many times. Toward that end, I have some questions. I use jaws, and always need some tricks for webpages. My questions: 1. What is the command to open menues with on mouse over links? 2. How do you set jaws not to keep saying heading level something? isn't there a way to use tones instead? 3. Can you label unlabeled graphics? I know you can do that with text links. 4. How do you set up jaws to describe colors? 5. I always have to arrow or page down past links and clutter in absense of a skip navigation link. I try h for heading to get to the main text or insert enter. Sometimes that does not work. Any tips on that? what keys to press to get to the text? Thanks. You've used google scholar? for which subjects? I did not think that was very accessible last I tried. I feel I refined my research skills over the years, but it still can be frustrating. I've used various key words. The librarian suggested trying the thesaurus in some of the epsco databases for new keywords. She was quite helpful, but I feel like we just got started when she had to go. she can only spend so much time on a one to one appointment. She was generous though, and we probably spent a little less than an hour together. I've also used the reference desk and asked those librarians who have been pretty helpful, although they cannot be as specific as working privately with someone. What I have done first is searched the database and then email myself the articles I feel may be of help. I usually read abstracts to see if its somewhat relevant. Often, I try hard to schedule research time at the library, even without one to one help. This way, I can use the reference staff for assistance since they tell me which databases are relevant to my topic to get me started. While they cannot be readers, they have searched the catalog for me, which is twenty times faster than me doing it, and gone with me to the shelves to pull relevant books and magazines. Second, Then later, I spend more time looking at articles with jaws, if possible. I toss out probably half of them since after reading a few pages and seeing their method or where it took place, I realize its not relevant. Sometimes the study was done in other countries, other times the study seems like such a small sample that its not a good article. Other times, the article is just not in a direction I thought it was going to be. Sometimes, I have to do this with a reader due to accessibility problems. I suppose this is common. I wondered if it was just me. I try hard and use relevant key words. Do you all read the introduction or method section to determine if its relevant? I'm always wondering if there's some way to tell more quickly as to not waste time, particularly if I'm reading with someone. I can only pay so much, and their voices can only last so long. In a research paper assignment, I've scheduled multiple readers to help me so I can get several hours in; maybe 3 or four hours. My third step is reading relevant articles or material and taking notes for the paper. Then I go from there. Justin, I agree with knowing some about the topic. I try to use google if possible to get me started. Like you, I set aside days just for research. I have no intent to write the paper then, but just get a sense of what is out there and what sources to look into. Sometimes, magazines and newspapers are best; other times for a scholarly paper, databases are good and you limit to peer reviewed texts. Sometimes, I get ten articles, and maybe only five are relevant once I begin reading. Then I spend more days doing more in depth research which is a combo of reading articles and thinking over if it is something I can use as well as finding more sources. Librarians told me to pay attention to names of journals and magazines as well as authors. If there is a common journal that keeps coming up that is useful or common author, they said to look up that specific journal, and then search for specific authors or volumes of journals if possible. Justin, you said you save your citations in a separate file. I have started doing this too so I can see what citations I've gotten and that helps me look for patterns such as common journals. Do you organize your citations in a particular way? For instance, putting common authors together? I was wondering because with so many possible sources, like over ten, I find it confusing to see so many citations. Obviously, in a reference list, I organize them in the right way. But, I wonder about pleminary organization. Thanks for any more tips. I don't think your original email went to the list do to this new set up. sometimes, I have to write nabs in the to line since it goes to the sender with control r by default. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Mary Fernandez via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:43 AM To: justin williams ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance All, I think this is a fabulous topic! First, research skills are ones which are not necessarily intuitive, and which all successful college students learn to refine and perfect throughout their college career. Unfortunately, there are numerous accessibility barriers with databases and eBooks, which others have access too readily. Part of the answer, and Ashley, you are on the right track, is to learn how to most effectively use databases, and search tools like Google Scholar. Most universities have workshops that students can attend, and which focus specifically on research, many times even by topic. Through my senior year in college, it wasn't strange for a class, which had a major research paper do at the end of the semester, to have a class scheduled at the library, and have a reference librarian show us the tips and tricks. The other half of the equation, is to be creative with using your assistive software, a lot of times websites are inaccessible enough to be a nightmare, but sometimes there is a hidden work around, like using the different cursor modes in Jaws, right clicking instead of pressing enter, etc. This makes things more time consuming than they ought to be, but unfortunately, until we can get this trend of technology being developed inaccessibly reversed, we must live with that reality. As far as articles, that's part of research. You do your best to narrow down the material you get back by using good search terminology, by categorizing, by reading the abstract, but at one point you have to just read the articles. No one article is going to give you all the information your need, that's why you use so many citations at the end of the day, because one part of one paper may be of relevance, but the other twenty pages aren't. Good research takes time, and the better you get at it, the better you become at using that time more efficiently. As far as PDFs, I've been suggesting to students to ask for Adobe Pro from VR or to purchase it if possible. If you take the time to learn some accessibility remediation techniques with Adobe, many tutorials are available online, you can tag your own pdfs and fix reading order and navigation. It won't be perfect, but at least it'll make them legible. Kurzweil 1000 is also incredibly useful. If it's 2 AM and the paper is due in six hours, not that I've ever been there, you can save pdfs to your pc, run them through Kurzweil and that way the articles become legible if not perfect. Last, not all databases are created equal. Depending on your subject, you may want to filter through subjects when choosing databases, for the humanities I found EPSCO databases to be really accessible, Jstor, PsychInfo, the Oxford databases, and quite a few others were very good. And some won't be. There are so many tips and tricks to conducting research, so I strongly suggest seeing if a college does those research workshops, and just taking the time to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. Unfortunately, there isn't a universal answer when it comes to accessibility. We must advocate for manufacturers and universities to become responsible for only procuring and implementing accessible learning tools, but that's a battle that has to be fought outside the research library! Thanks. Mary On 8/25/14, justin williams via nabs-l wrote: > It just depends on what I am looking for; I take pieces parts of several > articles, and just put them together into a research paper. It helps to > no > something about your topic. If you have no knowledge about a topic, get a > book from nls to start you off, then fine your articles. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia Gallo > via > nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:33 AM > To: Helga Schreiber; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > > I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant but I > thought this was true for everyone? > > Sofia > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is not >> so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God >> bless!! :-) >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >> Blind Students. >> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >> 3:16 Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have you run >>> into these issues? >>> >>> Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been better in >>> the past couple years. >>> For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete >>> databases do not let you change the combo box from the default and to >>> read "or". This means it would look for search terms A and B or search >>> term C. >>> >>> Other challenges I've had are evaluating if the article is relevant. I >>> do >>> read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I read most of >>> an article only to realize its not relevant. >>> Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end up asking >>> a reader to read them. >>> >>> What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries have >>> reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask them where to >>> look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the databases and >>> electronic references? Has the librarians worked 1 on 1 with you? At >>> the >>> community college and my university, Marymount, they did assist me a >>> little privately to get me started. They gave me specific instructions >>> on >>> what to click on and which boxes to check to get what I needed. I needed >>> to limit to full text, for instance; also if I needed recent articles, I >>> was taught how to write in the date range. >>> >>> These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? >>> >>> a.. Encyclopedia Britanica >>> b.. Credo reference >>> c.. Gale biography in context >>> >>> >>> Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. >>> How do you direct readers to find what you need? I've tried asking for >>> headings and table of contents. This does not always work. Is skimming >>> relevant chapters the best thing? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26 >>> %40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gma >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." -- Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 17:54:50 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:54:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: <3B19A402-9AA3-4235-ACD2-504523F5D145@jd16.law.harvard.edu> References: <4636F2E7587C4872A1C102A0E2F1DCD2@OwnerPC><99DFA1FE-ECC9-4417-A8E9-03FA12939DDB@gmail.com><5D0575A4-C631-43E2-8D60-19CD1DC09AF4@gmail.com><002301cfc066$e0176320$a0462960$@gmail.com><002601cfc06b$e56d1a40$b0474ec0$@gmail.com><002801cfc06c$ed983550$c8c89ff0$@gmail.com> <3B19A402-9AA3-4235-ACD2-504523F5D145@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Derek, I use my textbook too for general info and an overview of something. I usually need a reader for that though because I need to look up that in the index and cannot do so with a audio version of the text. Most of the time though its not in the text or it’s a paragraph so its not helpful. Do you use the internet for sources or just to get started? My concern with internet is sites are not always authentic but I've found some with .org domains to be okay at least to get started. Thanks for the advice. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Derek Manners via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:11 AM To: justin williams ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance I can't speak to the accessibility options but just generally, your research librarians are bored and would love to help you out. I rely on mine all the time. Also, I also tend to read a lot of articles that don't pan out so I also think this is pretty common. I'd also agree with the comment about needing to know something about the topic. My approach is to google/Wikipedia the topic or topics first. Then check my textbook if the topic is in there. Then I do a little searching. But if I get stuck, I turn to the research librarian pretty quickly to get moving. Best Derek PS I use zoom text so that is why I can't speak to the accessibility options. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 10:00 AM, justin williams via nabs-l > wrote: > > Oops, How did that not go to the list? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary > Fernandez > via nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:56 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance > > I think Justin meant to send this to the whole list > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: justin williams > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:53:05 -0400 > Subject: RE: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > To: Mary Fernandez > > I take each paper as a separate entity as far as accessibility is > concerned. > I take a day of two and just do the research. In other words, I have no > intent to write the paper, but to simply get the articles I want and > figure > out my base for the paper. Folks, I spend 6 to 8 hours, but I get 6 to 7 > articles and sometimes more, though I have found any more than about 9 or > 10 > more cumbersome then helpful. I work out all the accessibility issues > before I do anything with writing the paper. Don't forget your nls books, > or books on the blio. Sometimes the articles are pdfs, and other times > they > are web based; I try to stick to web based, but that is not always > possible. > Pdfs can be made accessible in a variety of ways, but sometimes, none of > those ways are adequate; the article can still become unusable. I have > found google scholar inaccessible for obtaining the articles, If someone > has > a tip for this, please share. I write down my citations for each articles > and save them in a separate file. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Fernandez [mailto:trillian551 at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:44 AM > To: justin williams; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > > All, > I think this is a fabulous topic! First, research skills are ones which > are > not necessarily intuitive, and which all successful college students learn > to refine and perfect throughout their college career. > Unfortunately, there are numerous accessibility barriers with databases > and > eBooks, which others have access too readily. Part of the answer, and > Ashley, you are on the right track, is to learn how to most effectively > use > databases, and search tools like Google Scholar. > Most universities have workshops that students can attend, and which focus > specifically on research, many times even by topic. Through my senior year > in college, it wasn't strange for a class, which had a major research > paper > do at the end of the semester, to have a class scheduled at the library, > and > have a reference librarian show us the tips and tricks. The other half of > the equation, is to be creative with using your assistive software, a lot > of > times websites are inaccessible enough to be a nightmare, but sometimes > there is a hidden work around, like using the different cursor modes in > Jaws, right clicking instead of pressing enter, etc. This makes things > more > time consuming than they ought to be, but unfortunately, until we can get > this trend of technology being developed inaccessibly reversed, we must > live > with that reality. > As far as articles, that's part of research. You do your best to narrow > down > the material you get back by using good search terminology, by > categorizing, > by reading the abstract, but at one point you have to just read the > articles. No one article is going to give you all the information your > need, > that's why you use so many citations at the end of the day, because one > part > of one paper may be of relevance, but the other twenty pages aren't. Good > research takes time, and the better you get at it, the better you become > at > using that time more efficiently. > As far as PDFs, I've been suggesting to students to ask for Adobe Pro from > VR or to purchase it if possible. If you take the time to learn some > accessibility remediation techniques with Adobe, many tutorials are > available online, you can tag your own pdfs and fix reading order and > navigation. It won't be perfect, but at least it'll make them legible. > Kurzweil 1000 is also incredibly useful. If it's 2 AM and the paper is due > in six hours, not that I've ever been there, you can save pdfs to your pc, > run them through Kurzweil and that way the articles become legible if not > perfect. > Last, not all databases are created equal. Depending on your subject, you > may want to filter through subjects when choosing databases, for the > humanities I found EPSCO databases to be really accessible, Jstor, > PsychInfo, the Oxford databases, and quite a few others were very good. > And > some won't be. There are so many tips and tricks to conducting research, > so > I strongly suggest seeing if a college does those research workshops, and > just taking the time to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. > Unfortunately, there isn't a universal answer when it comes to > accessibility. We must advocate for manufacturers and universities to > become > responsible for only procuring and implementing accessible learning tools, > but that's a battle that has to be fought outside the research library! > Thanks. > Mary > > >> On 8/25/14, justin williams via nabs-l wrote: >> It just depends on what I am looking for; I take pieces parts of >> several articles, and just put them together into a research paper. >> It helps to no something about your topic. If you have no knowledge >> about a topic, get a book from nls to start you off, then fine your > articles. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sofia >> Gallo via nabs-l >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:33 AM >> To: Helga Schreiber; National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance >> >> I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant but I >> thought this was true for everyone? >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is not >>> so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God >>> bless!! :-) >>> >>> Helga Schreiber >>> >>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter. >>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of >>> Blind Students. >>> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). >>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. >>> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >>> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >>> >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that >>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John >>> 3:16 Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have you >>>> run into these issues? >>>> >>>> Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been >>>> better in the past couple years. >>>> For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete >>>> databases do not let you change the combo box from the default and >>>> to read "or". This means it would look for search terms A and B or >>>> search term C. >>>> >>>> Other challenges I've had are evaluating if the article is relevant. >>>> I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I read >>>> most of an article only to realize its not relevant. >>>> Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end up >>>> asking a reader to read them. >>>> >>>> What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries >>>> have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask them >>>> where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the >>>> databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked 1 on >>>> 1 with you? At the community college and my university, Marymount, >>>> they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They gave >>>> me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to >>>> check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for >>>> instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to >>>> write in > the date range. >>>> >>>> These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? >>>> >>>> a.. Encyclopedia Britanica >>>> b.. Credo reference >>>> c.. Gale biography in context >>>> >>>> >>>> Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. >>>> How do you direct readers to find what you need? I've tried asking >>>> for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. Is >>>> skimming relevant chapters the best thing? >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber2 >>>> 6 >>>> %40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13%40gm >>> a >>> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmai >> l.com > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget > what > you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget > what > you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kmaent1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 18:17:37 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:17:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance Message-ID: <53fb7ddd.287a320a.6785.22be@mx.google.com> That=20index=20problem=20is=20one=20of=20the=20many=20reasons=20I=20always= =20use=20 publisher=20files=20or=20scanned=20books=20not=20audio.=20=20Another=20plac= e=20you=20 could=20go,=20at=20least=20in=20the=20humanities=20where=20a=20lot=20of=20s= cholarly=20 work=20is=20published=20in=20books=20not=20journal=20articles,=20is=20books= hare.=20=20 They=20actually=20have=20a=20very=20good=20selection=20of=20academic=20book= s=20these=20 days=20often=20including=20edited=20collections=20of=20relevant=20articles.= =20=20If=20 your=20looking=20at=20websites,=20what=20you=20really=20want=20are=20pages= =20with=20 .edu=20domains--they=20typically=20are=20written=20by=20professors=20 specializing=20in=20the=20area=20of=20the=20content.=20=20Also=20for=20stat= istical=20 information=20there=20are=20many=20(usually=20relatively=20accessible)=20 government=20websites--.gov=20domains. =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Ashley=20Bramlett=20via=20nabs-l=20,"National=20 Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"=20=20wrote: =20Oops,=20How=20did=20that=20not=20go=20to=20the=20list? =20-----Original=20Message----- =20From:=20nabs-l=20[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]=20On=20Behalf=20Of=20= Mary =20Fernandez =20via=20nabs-l =20Sent:=20Monday,=20August=2025,=202014=209:56=20AM =20To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list =20Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20Fwd:=20research=20techniques=20and=20assistance =20I=20think=20Justin=20meant=20to=20send=20this=20to=20the=20whole=20list =20----------=20Forwarded=20message=20---------- =20From:=20justin=20williams=20=20= wrote: =20It=20just=20depends=20on=20what=20I=20am=20looking=20for;=20I=20take=20p= ieces=20parts=20of =20several=20articles,=20and=20just=20put=20them=20together=20into=20a=20re= search=20 paper. =20It=20helps=20to=20no=20something=20about=20your=20topic.=20=20If=20you=20= have=20no=20 knowledge =20about=20a=20topic,=20get=20a=20book=20from=20nls=20to=20start=20you=20of= f,=20then=20fine=20 your =20articles. =20-----Original=20Message----- =20From:=20nabs-l=20[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]=20On=20Behalf=20Of=20= Sofia =20Gallo=20via=20nabs-l =20Sent:=20Monday,=20August=2025,=202014=207:33=20AM =20To:=20Helga=20Schreiber;=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Student= s=20 mailing =20list =20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20research=20techniques=20and=20assistance =20I=20also=20have=20to=20read=20a=20lot=20of=20the=20article=20to=20see=20= if=20it's=20relevant=20 but=20I =20thought=20this=20was=20true=20for=20everyone? =20Sofia =20Sent=20from=20my=20iPhone =20On=20Aug=2025,=202014,=20at=204:10=20AM,=20Helga=20Schreiber=20via=20nab= s-l =20=20wrote: =20Hi=20all!=20I=20have=20the=20same=20questions=20as=20Ashley.=20For=20me,= =20research=20is=20 not =20so=20easy=20as=20well!!=20Hope=20to=20hear=20from=20you=20soon.=20Thanks= =20=20so=20much=20 and=20God =20bless!!=20=20:-) =20Helga=20Schreiber =20Fundraiser=20Coordinator=20for=20Phi=20Theta=20Kappa,=20Alpha=20Delta=20= Iota=20 chapter. =20Member=20of=20National=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind=20and=20Florida=20= Association=20of =20Blind=20Students. =20Member=20of=20the=20International=20Networkers=20Team=20(INT). =20Independent=20Entrepreneur=20of=20the=20Company=204Life=20Research. =20Phone:=20=20(561)=20706-5950 =20Email:=20helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com =20Skype:=20helga.schreiber26 =204Life=20Website:=20http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx =20INT=20Website:=20http://int4life.com/ =20"For=20God=20so=20loved=20the=20world=20that=20he=20gave=20his=20one=20a= nd=20only=20Son,=20 that =20whoever=20believes=20in=20him=20shall=20not=20perish=20but=20have=20eter= nal=20life."=20 John =203:16=20Sent=20from=20my=20iPhone =20On=20Aug=2025,=202014,=20at=203:17=20AM,=20Ashley=20Bramlett=20via=20nab= s-l =20=20wrote: =20Hi=20all, =20Its=20been=20my=20experience=20that=20research=20is=20very=20challenging= .=20Have=20 you =20run=20into=20these=20issues? =20Not=20all=20databases=20are=20fully=20accessible,=20although=20that=20ha= s=20been =20better=20in=20the=20past=20couple=20years. =20For=20instance,=20academic=20search=20complete=20and=20other=20Search=20= complete =20databases=20do=20not=20let=20you=20change=20the=20combo=20box=20from=20t= he=20default=20 and =20to=20read=20"or".=20This=20means=20it=20would=20look=20for=20search=20te= rms=20A=20and=20B=20 or =20search=20term=20C. =20Other=20challenges=20I've=20had=20are=20evaluating=20if=20the=20article= =20is=20 relevant. =20I=20do=20read=20abstracts=20first=20and=20think=20through=20it.=20It=20s= eems=20like=20I=20 read =20most=20of=20an=20article=20only=20to=20realize=20its=20not=20relevant. =20Also,=20some=20articlesare=20pdfs=20with=20words=20smashed=20together;=20= I=20end=20 up =20asking=20a=20reader=20to=20read=20them. =20What=20assistance=20have=20you=20had=20with=20research?=20All=20school=20= libraries =20have=20reference=20librarians=20at=20a=20certain=20desk.=20Do=20you=20ju= st=20ask=20 them =20where=20to=20look?=20Have=20you=20needed=20or=20wanted=20more=20help=20l= earning=20the =20databases=20and=20electronic=20references?=20Has=20the=20librarians=20wo= rked=20=20 1=20on =201=20with=20you?=20At=20the=20community=20college=20and=20my=20university= ,=20 Marymount, =20they=20did=20assist=20me=20a=20little=20privately=20to=20get=20me=20star= ted.=20They=20 gave =20me=20specific=20instructions=20on=20what=20to=20click=20on=20and=20which= =20boxes=20to =20check=20to=20get=20what=20I=20needed.=20I=20needed=20to=20limit=20to=20f= ull=20text,=20for =20instance;=20also=20if=20I=20needed=20recent=20articles,=20I=20was=20taug= ht=20how=20to =20write=20in =20the=20date=20range. =20These=20references=20seem=20inaccessible.=20Was=20that=20your=20experien= ce? =20a..=20Encyclopedia=20Britanica =20b..=20Credo=20reference =20c..=20Gale=20biography=20in=20context =20Also,=20books=20are=20not=20accessible=20and=20libraries=20have=20lots=20= of=20them. =20How=20do=20you=20direct=20readers=20to=20find=20what=20you=20need?=20I'v= e=20tried=20 asking =20for=20headings=20and=20table=20of=20contents.=20This=20does=20not=20alwa= ys=20work.=20 Is =20skimming=20relevant=20chapters=20the=20best=20thing? =20Thanks. =20Ashley =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info =20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib er2 =206 =20%40gmail.com =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% 40gm =20a =20il.com =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia ms2%4 =200gmail.com =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%4 0gmai =20l.com =20-- =20Mary=20Fernandez =20"I've=20learned=20that=20people=20will=20forget=20what=20you=20said,=20p= eople=20will=20 forget =20what =20you=20did,=20but=20people=20will=20never=20forget=20how=20you=20made=20t= hem=20feel." =20-- =20Maya=20Angelou =20-- =20Mary=20Fernandez =20"I've=20learned=20that=20people=20will=20forget=20what=20you=20said,=20p= eople=20will=20 forget =20what =20you=20did,=20but=20people=20will=20never=20forget=20how=20you=20made=20t= hem=20feel." =20-- =20Maya=20Angelou =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia ms2%40gmail =20.com =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd 16.law.harvard.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l=20mailing=20list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco= unt=20info=20 for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l=20mailing=20list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco= unt=20info=20 for=20nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma il.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 18:49:57 2014 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 11:49:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Statistical/data analysis software In-Reply-To: <29E6B69C-9EC6-4347-9124-98BC082E99A2@jd16.law.harvard.edu> References: <29E6B69C-9EC6-4347-9124-98BC082E99A2@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Hi Kirt, I have not used SPSS in about 7 years, but I believe it is mostly accessible. I use a competing program, SAS, for my data analysis in a professional research setting, and think it is slightly more accessible than SPSS. However, the bigger concern is that SPSS (or SAS) private licenses cost money, and most students use SPSS on shared computers. So it probably makes sense for you to use SPSS only if the shared computer in your class building is outfitted with JAWS. I don't believe SPSS is accessible yet on the Mac and I don't know how well it plays with WindowEyes or NVDA. For this reason, I usually advise undergrad students to use either Excel or the free web-based calculator at www.graphpad.com/quickcalcs for your data analysis needs, if your professor allows. Depending on the extent to which SPSS is used in the course, you could also work with another student if the shared workstation is not outfitted with JAWS. There is also R, a free program, that some blind people have used successfully, though R is harder to learn than either Excel or Graphpad. If you get a list of the statistical functions you will be expected to do and want to share that with me off-list, I can advise on whether Excel and GraphPad will be sufficient. Best of luck! Arielle On 8/25/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: > I found excel to be accessible and able to do most things you'd need to do. > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Kirt Manwaring via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hello Nabsters, >> This semester I will be taking a political analysis course relying >> heavily on data analysis. Our class will be using a program called >> SPSS to organize and analyze sets of data. My question, for those of >> you who have taken statistics or other quantative analysis courses, >> how accessible is SSPS? If this program will not work, is there an >> accessible alternative I will be able to use? Is there any more >> general advice I should be aware of in regards to statistical analysis >> with screen readers? Any help you could give me would be very much >> appreciated. >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 19:04:05 2014 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:04:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: <53fb7ddd.287a320a.6785.22be@mx.google.com> References: <53fb7ddd.287a320a.6785.22be@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, I think that a lot of great suggestions have been given thus far. I remember going through a time where the whole idea of research and finding references from reputable sources was incredibly aloof to me. Even still, one of the things I do when pondering research ideas is to talk to other people, especially those specializing in your topic. If there is a professor with a specialty in your topic, go to their office hours even if they aren't your professor. Maybe there is a grad student who can help you. Several departments feature the department's labs or concentrations and some even list the students in each. One thing that hasn't been brought up yet is taking advantage of your professor's office hours. I have often found this to be helpful. Often, they will talk about my ideas with me. What do I want to write the paper about. If the assignment includes an experiment that I have to run, how do I learn about a topic that I want to expound upon in my own research? Often, they will start searches with you and may even send you links to papers they find helpful. I do believe that reading an abstract should give you a pretty good idea of whether reading the paper is a good use of your time. This does take a bit of practice. I think that if you are unable to understand an abstract, try to Wikipedia some of the terms surrounding your topic. Then, if you can't understand abstracts, they probably aren't relevant to your topic or worth your time. I actually really like Google scholar, and many of the articles brought up are located in databases that my school subscribes to. I found it accessible just as Google searches are accessible. I have not tried out this service, but have heard of Mendeley which is a free paper and reference management system. If you use Chrome, you can sed papers right to Mendeley if you search them on Scholar. I recommend that if you are doong research for your field to start your own folders of helpful papers on your computer. I also recommend looking at other papers' references. You can even look at the references on Wikipedia. If you find one helpful paper, chances are that references to other helpful resources are right there in the article. Further, if you are researching a topic that is covered somewhere in your textbook, looking at the references in the chapter can be good, especially if they are referencing a study they are using as an example. Cindy On 8/25/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: > That index problem is one of the many reasons I always use > publisher files or scanned books not audio. Another place you > could go, at least in the humanities where a lot of scholarly > work is published in books not journal articles, is bookshare. > They actually have a very good selection of academic books these > days often including edited collections of relevant articles. If > your looking at websites, what you really want are pages with > .edu domains--they typically are written by professors > specializing in the area of the content. Also for statistical > information there are many (usually relatively accessible) > government websites--.gov domains. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l To: "Derek Manners" ,"National > Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:54:50 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance > > Derek, > > I use my textbook too for general info and an overview of > something. I > usually need a reader for that though because I need to look up > that in the > index and cannot do so with a audio version of the text. > Most of the time though its not in the text or it's a paragraph > so its not > helpful. > > Do you use the internet for sources or just to get started? My > concern with > internet is sites are not always authentic > but I've found some with .org domains to be okay at least to get > started. > > Thanks for the advice. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Derek Manners via nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:11 AM > To: justin williams ; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance > > I can't speak to the accessibility options but just generally, > your research > librarians are bored and would love to help you out. I rely on > mine all the > time. Also, I also tend to read a lot of articles that don't pan > out so I > also think this is pretty common. > > I'd also agree with the comment about needing to know something > about the > topic. My approach is to google/Wikipedia the topic or topics > first. Then > check my textbook if the topic is in there. Then I do a little > searching. > But if I get stuck, I turn to the research librarian pretty > quickly to get > moving. > > Best > Derek > > PS > I use zoom text so that is why I can't speak to the accessibility > options. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 25, 2014, at 10:00 AM, justin williams via nabs-l > wrote: > > Oops, How did that not go to the list? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Mary > Fernandez > via nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:56 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance > > I think Justin meant to send this to the whole list > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: justin williams Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:53:05 -0400 > Subject: RE: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > To: Mary Fernandez > I take each paper as a separate entity as far as accessibility > is > concerned. > I take a day of two and just do the research. In other words, I > have no > intent to write the paper, but to simply get the articles I want > and > figure > out my base for the paper. Folks, I spend 6 to 8 hours, but I > get 6 to 7 > articles and sometimes more, though I have found any more than > about 9 or > 10 > more cumbersome then helpful. I work out all the > accessibility issues > before I do anything with writing the paper. Don't forget your > nls books, > or books on the blio. Sometimes the articles are pdfs, and > other times > they > are web based; I try to stick to web based, but that is not > always > possible. > Pdfs can be made accessible in a variety of ways, but sometimes, > none of > those ways are adequate; the article can still become unusable. > I have > found google scholar inaccessible for obtaining the articles, If > someone > has > a tip for this, please share. I write down my citations for > each articles > and save them in a separate file. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Fernandez [mailto:trillian551 at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:44 AM > To: justin williams; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > > All, > I think this is a fabulous topic! First, research skills are > ones which > are > not necessarily intuitive, and which all successful college > students learn > to refine and perfect throughout their college career. > Unfortunately, there are numerous accessibility barriers with > databases > and > eBooks, which others have access too readily. Part of the > answer, and > Ashley, you are on the right track, is to learn how to most > effectively > use > databases, and search tools like Google Scholar. > Most universities have workshops that students can attend, and > which focus > specifically on research, many times even by topic. Through my > senior year > in college, it wasn't strange for a class, which had a major > research > paper > do at the end of the semester, to have a class scheduled at the > library, > and > have a reference librarian show us the tips and tricks. The > other half of > the equation, is to be creative with using your assistive > software, a lot > of > times websites are inaccessible enough to be a nightmare, but > sometimes > there is a hidden work around, like using the different cursor > modes in > Jaws, right clicking instead of pressing enter, etc. This makes > things > more > time consuming than they ought to be, but unfortunately, until > we can get > this trend of technology being developed inaccessibly reversed, > we must > live > with that reality. > As far as articles, that's part of research. You do your best to > narrow > down > the material you get back by using good search terminology, by > categorizing, > by reading the abstract, but at one point you have to just read > the > articles. No one article is going to give you all the > information your > need, > that's why you use so many citations at the end of the day, > because one > part > of one paper may be of relevance, but the other twenty pages > aren't. Good > research takes time, and the better you get at it, the better > you become > at > using that time more efficiently. > As far as PDFs, I've been suggesting to students to ask for > Adobe Pro from > VR or to purchase it if possible. If you take the time to learn > some > accessibility remediation techniques with Adobe, many tutorials > are > available online, you can tag your own pdfs and fix reading > order and > navigation. It won't be perfect, but at least it'll make them > legible. > Kurzweil 1000 is also incredibly useful. If it's 2 AM and the > paper is due > in six hours, not that I've ever been there, you can save pdfs > to your pc, > run them through Kurzweil and that way the articles become > legible if not > perfect. > Last, not all databases are created equal. Depending on your > subject, you > may want to filter through subjects when choosing databases, for > the > humanities I found EPSCO databases to be really accessible, > Jstor, > PsychInfo, the Oxford databases, and quite a few others were > very good. > And > some won't be. There are so many tips and tricks to conducting > research, > so > I strongly suggest seeing if a college does those research > workshops, and > just taking the time to figure out what works for you and what > doesn't. > Unfortunately, there isn't a universal answer when it comes to > accessibility. We must advocate for manufacturers and > universities to > become > responsible for only procuring and implementing accessible > learning tools, > but that's a battle that has to be fought outside the research > library! > Thanks. > Mary > > > On 8/25/14, justin williams via nabs-l > wrote: > It just depends on what I am looking for; I take pieces parts of > several articles, and just put them together into a research > paper. > It helps to no something about your topic. If you have no > knowledge > about a topic, get a book from nls to start you off, then fine > your > articles. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sofia > Gallo via nabs-l > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:33 AM > To: Helga Schreiber; National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance > > I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant > but I > thought this was true for everyone? > > Sofia > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l > wrote: > > Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is > not > so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much > and God > bless!! :-) > > Helga Schreiber > > Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota > chapter. > Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida > Association of > Blind Students. > Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). > Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. > Phone: (561) 706-5950 > Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Skype: helga.schreiber26 > 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx > INT Website: http://int4life.com/ > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, > that > whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." > John > 3:16 Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l > wrote: > > Hi all, > > Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have > you > run into these issues? > > Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been > better in the past couple years. > For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete > databases do not let you change the combo box from the default > and > to read "or". This means it would look for search terms A and B > or > search term C. > > Other challenges I've had are evaluating if the article is > relevant. > I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I > read > most of an article only to realize its not relevant. > Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end > up > asking a reader to read them. > > What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries > have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask > them > where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the > databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked > 1 on > 1 with you? At the community college and my university, > Marymount, > they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They > gave > me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to > check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for > instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to > write in > the date range. > > These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? > > a.. Encyclopedia Britanica > b.. Credo reference > c.. Gale biography in context > > > Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. > How do you direct readers to find what you need? I've tried > asking > for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. > Is > skimming relevant chapters the best thing? > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib > er2 > 6 > %40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% > 40gm > a > il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia > ms2%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%4 > 0gmai > l.com > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget > what > you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget > what > you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." > -- > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia > ms2%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd > 16.law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma > il.com > > > -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 19:07:19 2014 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:07:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list Message-ID: Hi all, I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and to have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the "reply all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L is one recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is another recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, to be polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove peoples' individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and send it. Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L community will miss your message. Cindy -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com From matt.dierckens at me.com Mon Aug 25 19:09:16 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:09:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com> Hi, I want to see if this is in fact the case when replying from the mac. Some lists you have to hit reply all, others you can hit reply. So if you are the only one receiving this let me know, if it went to the whole list let me know. Thank you. God bless. :) Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Personal email: matt.diercken On Aug 25, 2014, at 15:07, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > > I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and to > have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the "reply > all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L is one > recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is another > recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, to be > polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove peoples' > individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and send > it. > > Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most > recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L community > will miss your message. > > Cindy > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National > Federation of the Blind of Washington > Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind > > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From justin.williams2 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 19:09:34 2014 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:09:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010101cfc098$1c0538e0$540faaa0$@gmail.com> Okay; I guess that is recent; I didn't know that. I appreciate you telling me that. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:07 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list Hi all, I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and to have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the "reply all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L is one recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is another recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, to be polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove peoples' individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and send it. Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L community will miss your message. Cindy -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail .com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 19:12:37 2014 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:12:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: References: <53fb7ddd.287a320a.6785.22be@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ashley, I've been gradually moving away from audio text books and towards electronic text as my preferred format. I love coursesmart.com because it's accessible (mostly), easily navigable and those problems about using the index in audio books are conveniently absent. Of course, previous generations of blind college students often had to wade through indexes on 8-track audio casettes without the handy navigation features we have in BARD or learning ally books these days, so I suppose it's all relative anyhow. Best, Kirt On 8/25/14, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: > Hi, > > I think that a lot of great suggestions have been given thus far. > > I remember going through a time where the whole idea of research and > finding references from reputable sources was incredibly aloof to me. > Even still, one of the things I do when pondering research ideas is to > talk to other people, especially those specializing in your topic. If > there is a professor with a specialty in your topic, go to their > office hours even if they aren't your professor. Maybe there is a grad > student who can help you. Several departments feature the department's > labs or concentrations and some even list the students in each. > > One thing that hasn't been brought up yet is taking advantage of your > professor's office hours. I have often found this to be helpful. > Often, they will talk about my ideas with me. What do I want to write > the paper about. If the assignment includes an experiment that I have > to run, how do I learn about a topic that I want to expound upon in my > own research? Often, they will start searches with you and may even > send you links to papers they find helpful. > > I do believe that reading an abstract should give you a pretty good > idea of whether reading the paper is a good use of your time. This > does take a bit of practice. I think that if you are unable to > understand an abstract, try to Wikipedia some of the terms surrounding > your topic. Then, if you can't understand abstracts, they probably > aren't relevant to your topic or worth your time. > > I actually really like Google scholar, and many of the articles > brought up are located in databases that my school subscribes to. I > found it accessible just as Google searches are accessible. > > I have not tried out this service, but have heard of Mendeley which is > a free paper and reference management system. If you use Chrome, you > can sed papers right to Mendeley if you search them on Scholar. > > I recommend that if you are doong research for your field to start > your own folders of helpful papers on your computer. > > I also recommend looking at other papers' references. You can even > look at the references on Wikipedia. If you find one helpful paper, > chances are that references to other helpful resources are right there > in the article. Further, if you are researching a topic that is > covered somewhere in your textbook, looking at the references in the > chapter can be good, especially if they are referencing a study they > are using as an example. > > Cindy > > On 8/25/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >> That index problem is one of the many reasons I always use >> publisher files or scanned books not audio. Another place you >> could go, at least in the humanities where a lot of scholarly >> work is published in books not journal articles, is bookshare. >> They actually have a very good selection of academic books these >> days often including edited collections of relevant articles. If >> your looking at websites, what you really want are pages with >> .edu domains--they typically are written by professors >> specializing in the area of the content. Also for statistical >> information there are many (usually relatively accessible) >> government websites--.gov domains. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l > To: "Derek Manners" ,"National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:54:50 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance >> >> Derek, >> >> I use my textbook too for general info and an overview of >> something. I >> usually need a reader for that though because I need to look up >> that in the >> index and cannot do so with a audio version of the text. >> Most of the time though its not in the text or it's a paragraph >> so its not >> helpful. >> >> Do you use the internet for sources or just to get started? My >> concern with >> internet is sites are not always authentic >> but I've found some with .org domains to be okay at least to get >> started. >> >> Thanks for the advice. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Derek Manners via nabs-l >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:11 AM >> To: justin williams ; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance >> >> I can't speak to the accessibility options but just generally, >> your research >> librarians are bored and would love to help you out. I rely on >> mine all the >> time. Also, I also tend to read a lot of articles that don't pan >> out so I >> also think this is pretty common. >> >> I'd also agree with the comment about needing to know something >> about the >> topic. My approach is to google/Wikipedia the topic or topics >> first. Then >> check my textbook if the topic is in there. Then I do a little >> searching. >> But if I get stuck, I turn to the research librarian pretty >> quickly to get >> moving. >> >> Best >> Derek >> >> PS >> I use zoom text so that is why I can't speak to the accessibility >> options. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 10:00 AM, justin williams via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Oops, How did that not go to the list? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Mary >> Fernandez >> via nabs-l >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:56 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance >> >> I think Justin meant to send this to the whole list >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: justin williams > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:53:05 -0400 >> Subject: RE: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance >> To: Mary Fernandez > >> I take each paper as a separate entity as far as accessibility >> is >> concerned. >> I take a day of two and just do the research. In other words, I >> have no >> intent to write the paper, but to simply get the articles I want >> and >> figure >> out my base for the paper. Folks, I spend 6 to 8 hours, but I >> get 6 to 7 >> articles and sometimes more, though I have found any more than >> about 9 or >> 10 >> more cumbersome then helpful. I work out all the >> accessibility issues >> before I do anything with writing the paper. Don't forget your >> nls books, >> or books on the blio. Sometimes the articles are pdfs, and >> other times >> they >> are web based; I try to stick to web based, but that is not >> always >> possible. >> Pdfs can be made accessible in a variety of ways, but sometimes, >> none of >> those ways are adequate; the article can still become unusable. >> I have >> found google scholar inaccessible for obtaining the articles, If >> someone >> has >> a tip for this, please share. I write down my citations for >> each articles >> and save them in a separate file. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mary Fernandez [mailto:trillian551 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:44 AM >> To: justin williams; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance >> >> All, >> I think this is a fabulous topic! First, research skills are >> ones which >> are >> not necessarily intuitive, and which all successful college >> students learn >> to refine and perfect throughout their college career. >> Unfortunately, there are numerous accessibility barriers with >> databases >> and >> eBooks, which others have access too readily. Part of the >> answer, and >> Ashley, you are on the right track, is to learn how to most >> effectively >> use >> databases, and search tools like Google Scholar. >> Most universities have workshops that students can attend, and >> which focus >> specifically on research, many times even by topic. Through my >> senior year >> in college, it wasn't strange for a class, which had a major >> research >> paper >> do at the end of the semester, to have a class scheduled at the >> library, >> and >> have a reference librarian show us the tips and tricks. The >> other half of >> the equation, is to be creative with using your assistive >> software, a lot >> of >> times websites are inaccessible enough to be a nightmare, but >> sometimes >> there is a hidden work around, like using the different cursor >> modes in >> Jaws, right clicking instead of pressing enter, etc. This makes >> things >> more >> time consuming than they ought to be, but unfortunately, until >> we can get >> this trend of technology being developed inaccessibly reversed, >> we must >> live >> with that reality. >> As far as articles, that's part of research. You do your best to >> narrow >> down >> the material you get back by using good search terminology, by >> categorizing, >> by reading the abstract, but at one point you have to just read >> the >> articles. No one article is going to give you all the >> information your >> need, >> that's why you use so many citations at the end of the day, >> because one >> part >> of one paper may be of relevance, but the other twenty pages >> aren't. Good >> research takes time, and the better you get at it, the better >> you become >> at >> using that time more efficiently. >> As far as PDFs, I've been suggesting to students to ask for >> Adobe Pro from >> VR or to purchase it if possible. If you take the time to learn >> some >> accessibility remediation techniques with Adobe, many tutorials >> are >> available online, you can tag your own pdfs and fix reading >> order and >> navigation. It won't be perfect, but at least it'll make them >> legible. >> Kurzweil 1000 is also incredibly useful. If it's 2 AM and the >> paper is due >> in six hours, not that I've ever been there, you can save pdfs >> to your pc, >> run them through Kurzweil and that way the articles become >> legible if not >> perfect. >> Last, not all databases are created equal. Depending on your >> subject, you >> may want to filter through subjects when choosing databases, for >> the >> humanities I found EPSCO databases to be really accessible, >> Jstor, >> PsychInfo, the Oxford databases, and quite a few others were >> very good. >> And >> some won't be. There are so many tips and tricks to conducting >> research, >> so >> I strongly suggest seeing if a college does those research >> workshops, and >> just taking the time to figure out what works for you and what >> doesn't. >> Unfortunately, there isn't a universal answer when it comes to >> accessibility. We must advocate for manufacturers and >> universities to >> become >> responsible for only procuring and implementing accessible >> learning tools, >> but that's a battle that has to be fought outside the research >> library! >> Thanks. >> Mary >> >> >> On 8/25/14, justin williams via nabs-l >> wrote: >> It just depends on what I am looking for; I take pieces parts of >> several articles, and just put them together into a research >> paper. >> It helps to no something about your topic. If you have no >> knowledge >> about a topic, get a book from nls to start you off, then fine >> your >> articles. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sofia >> Gallo via nabs-l >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:33 AM >> To: Helga Schreiber; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance >> >> I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant >> but I >> thought this was true for everyone? >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is >> not >> so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much >> and God >> bless!! :-) >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota >> chapter. >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida >> Association of >> Blind Students. >> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, >> that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." >> John >> 3:16 Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have >> you >> run into these issues? >> >> Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been >> better in the past couple years. >> For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete >> databases do not let you change the combo box from the default >> and >> to read "or". This means it would look for search terms A and B >> or >> search term C. >> >> Other challenges I've had are evaluating if the article is >> relevant. >> I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I >> read >> most of an article only to realize its not relevant. >> Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end >> up >> asking a reader to read them. >> >> What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries >> have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask >> them >> where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the >> databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked >> 1 on >> 1 with you? At the community college and my university, >> Marymount, >> they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They >> gave >> me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to >> check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for >> instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to >> write in >> the date range. >> >> These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? >> >> a.. Encyclopedia Britanica >> b.. Credo reference >> c.. Gale biography in context >> >> >> Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. >> How do you direct readers to find what you need? I've tried >> asking >> for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. >> Is >> skimming relevant chapters the best thing? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib >> er2 >> 6 >> %40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >> 40gm >> a >> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia >> ms2%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%4 >> 0gmai >> l.com >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget >> what >> you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget >> what >> you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia >> ms2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd >> 16.law.harvard.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National > Federation of the Blind of Washington > Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind > > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From gera1027 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 19:13:55 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:13:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list In-Reply-To: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com> References: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com> Message-ID: <53FB8AF3.8020108@gmail.com> It went to the whole list; hope mine will to? El 25/08/2014 02:09 p.m., Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l escribió: > Hi, I want to see if this is in fact the case when replying from the mac. Some lists you have to hit reply all, others you can hit reply. So if you are the only one receiving this let me know, if it went to the whole list let me know. > Thank you. > > God bless. :) > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Personal email: matt.diercken > > On Aug 25, 2014, at 15:07, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and to >> have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the "reply >> all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L is one >> recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is another >> recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, to be >> polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove peoples' >> individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and send >> it. >> >> Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most >> recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L community >> will miss your message. >> >> Cindy >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >> Federation of the Blind of Washington >> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 19:18:21 2014 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:18:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list In-Reply-To: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com> References: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com> Message-ID: Hi Justin and Matthew, your messages went to me and NABS. I don't particularly mind since I use Gmail and it intelligently threads messages that I receive duplicates of, but other peoples' email clients may not do that. That is why I brought up removing peoples' individual email addresses so they won't get duplicate messages. In any case, David Andrews can probably elaborate although unnecessary, but the NFB list serves were transitioned to a more reliable server within the past year. The lists have slightly changed, the replying annoyance is probably the most noticeable change. In any case, the transition vastly improved several behind-the-scenes factors related to managing all of our list serves, so I consider the annoyance manageable. Cindy On 8/25/14, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > Hi, I want to see if this is in fact the case when replying from the mac. > Some lists you have to hit reply all, others you can hit reply. So if you > are the only one receiving this let me know, if it went to the whole list > let me know. > Thank you. > > God bless. :) > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Personal email: matt.diercken > > On Aug 25, 2014, at 15:07, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and to >> have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the "reply >> all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L is one >> recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is another >> recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, to be >> polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove peoples' >> individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and send >> it. >> >> Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most >> recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L community >> will miss your message. >> >> Cindy >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >> Federation of the Blind of Washington >> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > > -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 19:20:47 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:20:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list In-Reply-To: References: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com> Message-ID: <53FB8C8F.7080203@gmail.com> Here on my Windows7 system with Thunderbird, Control+r (reply) went to the Nabs-l list as always. El 25/08/2014 02:18 p.m., Cindy Bennett via nabs-l escribió: > Hi Justin and Matthew, your messages went to me and NABS. I don't > particularly mind since I use Gmail and it intelligently threads > messages that I receive duplicates of, but other peoples' email > clients may not do that. That is why I brought up removing peoples' > individual email addresses so they won't get duplicate messages. > > In any case, David Andrews can probably elaborate although > unnecessary, but the NFB list serves were transitioned to a more > reliable server within the past year. The lists have slightly changed, > the replying annoyance is probably the most noticeable change. > > In any case, the transition vastly improved several behind-the-scenes > factors related to managing all of our list serves, so I consider the > annoyance manageable. > > Cindy > > On 8/25/14, Matthew Dierckens wrote: >> Hi, I want to see if this is in fact the case when replying from the mac. >> Some lists you have to hit reply all, others you can hit reply. So if you >> are the only one receiving this let me know, if it went to the whole list >> let me know. >> Thank you. >> >> God bless. :) >> Matthew Dierckens >> Macintosh Trainer >> Blind Access Training >> www.blindaccesstraining.com >> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >> work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >> Personal email: matt.diercken >> >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 15:07, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and to >>> have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the "reply >>> all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L is one >>> recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is another >>> recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, to be >>> polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove peoples' >>> individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and send >>> it. >>> >>> Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most >>> recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L community >>> will miss your message. >>> >>> Cindy >>> >>> -- >>> Cindy Bennett >>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >>> Federation of the Blind of Washington >>> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com >> > -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 19:34:13 2014 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:34:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list In-Reply-To: <53FB8C8F.7080203@gmail.com> References: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com> <53FB8C8F.7080203@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ok, cool, glad to hear about the variations. I've just seen a couple of recent instances where people intended to reply to the list but replied to an individual so I thought it might be worth people checking their clients to see how they reply. Cindy On 8/25/14, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > Here on my Windows7 system with Thunderbird, Control+r (reply) went to > the Nabs-l list as always. > > El 25/08/2014 02:18 p.m., Cindy Bennett via nabs-l escribió: >> Hi Justin and Matthew, your messages went to me and NABS. I don't >> particularly mind since I use Gmail and it intelligently threads >> messages that I receive duplicates of, but other peoples' email >> clients may not do that. That is why I brought up removing peoples' >> individual email addresses so they won't get duplicate messages. >> >> In any case, David Andrews can probably elaborate although >> unnecessary, but the NFB list serves were transitioned to a more >> reliable server within the past year. The lists have slightly changed, >> the replying annoyance is probably the most noticeable change. >> >> In any case, the transition vastly improved several behind-the-scenes >> factors related to managing all of our list serves, so I consider the >> annoyance manageable. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 8/25/14, Matthew Dierckens wrote: >>> Hi, I want to see if this is in fact the case when replying from the >>> mac. >>> Some lists you have to hit reply all, others you can hit reply. So if >>> you >>> are the only one receiving this let me know, if it went to the whole >>> list >>> let me know. >>> Thank you. >>> >>> God bless. :) >>> Matthew Dierckens >>> Macintosh Trainer >>> Blind Access Training >>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>> work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>> Personal email: matt.diercken >>> >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 15:07, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and to >>>> have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the "reply >>>> all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L is one >>>> recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is another >>>> recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, to be >>>> polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove peoples' >>>> individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and send >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most >>>> recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L community >>>> will miss your message. >>>> >>>> Cindy >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cindy Bennett >>>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >>>> Federation of the Blind of Washington >>>> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com >>> >> > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki > Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México > RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM > México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 19:42:58 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:42:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance In-Reply-To: References: <53fb7ddd.287a320a.6785.22be@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <93AC85C69ADB49DE9D27271DF4564F19@OwnerPC> Kirt and all, Well, I have found numerous accessibility issues with files from publishers. Its in pdf. I have my accessibility settings set. Still, issues. Dss will get publisher files for me. How do you use coursesmart? If you have to be online all the time, not a good idea for me as sometimes my wifi at home is spotty. The issues with pdfs are the words are smashed together, jaws says grapic in the middle of text, and some words are broken up. I've always prefered human readers because although they make mistakes on occasion, they are not monotone and I can get the material with out the struggle of understanding a broken worded file. I could not live without learning ally. but with this, I have to plan in advance to have people look up the index for me for certain topics. Then with the pages, I can go to those pages on my daisy recording easily with the go to page function. Glad electronic text seems to work for you. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:12 PM To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance Ashley, I've been gradually moving away from audio text books and towards electronic text as my preferred format. I love coursesmart.com because it's accessible (mostly), easily navigable and those problems about using the index in audio books are conveniently absent. Of course, previous generations of blind college students often had to wade through indexes on 8-track audio casettes without the handy navigation features we have in BARD or learning ally books these days, so I suppose it's all relative anyhow. Best, Kirt On 8/25/14, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: > Hi, > > I think that a lot of great suggestions have been given thus far. > > I remember going through a time where the whole idea of research and > finding references from reputable sources was incredibly aloof to me. > Even still, one of the things I do when pondering research ideas is to > talk to other people, especially those specializing in your topic. If > there is a professor with a specialty in your topic, go to their > office hours even if they aren't your professor. Maybe there is a grad > student who can help you. Several departments feature the department's > labs or concentrations and some even list the students in each. > > One thing that hasn't been brought up yet is taking advantage of your > professor's office hours. I have often found this to be helpful. > Often, they will talk about my ideas with me. What do I want to write > the paper about. If the assignment includes an experiment that I have > to run, how do I learn about a topic that I want to expound upon in my > own research? Often, they will start searches with you and may even > send you links to papers they find helpful. > > I do believe that reading an abstract should give you a pretty good > idea of whether reading the paper is a good use of your time. This > does take a bit of practice. I think that if you are unable to > understand an abstract, try to Wikipedia some of the terms surrounding > your topic. Then, if you can't understand abstracts, they probably > aren't relevant to your topic or worth your time. > > I actually really like Google scholar, and many of the articles > brought up are located in databases that my school subscribes to. I > found it accessible just as Google searches are accessible. > > I have not tried out this service, but have heard of Mendeley which is > a free paper and reference management system. If you use Chrome, you > can sed papers right to Mendeley if you search them on Scholar. > > I recommend that if you are doong research for your field to start > your own folders of helpful papers on your computer. > > I also recommend looking at other papers' references. You can even > look at the references on Wikipedia. If you find one helpful paper, > chances are that references to other helpful resources are right there > in the article. Further, if you are researching a topic that is > covered somewhere in your textbook, looking at the references in the > chapter can be good, especially if they are referencing a study they > are using as an example. > > Cindy > > On 8/25/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: >> That index problem is one of the many reasons I always use >> publisher files or scanned books not audio. Another place you >> could go, at least in the humanities where a lot of scholarly >> work is published in books not journal articles, is bookshare. >> They actually have a very good selection of academic books these >> days often including edited collections of relevant articles. If >> your looking at websites, what you really want are pages with >> .edu domains--they typically are written by professors >> specializing in the area of the content. Also for statistical >> information there are many (usually relatively accessible) >> government websites--.gov domains. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l > To: "Derek Manners" ,"National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:54:50 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance >> >> Derek, >> >> I use my textbook too for general info and an overview of >> something. I >> usually need a reader for that though because I need to look up >> that in the >> index and cannot do so with a audio version of the text. >> Most of the time though its not in the text or it's a paragraph >> so its not >> helpful. >> >> Do you use the internet for sources or just to get started? My >> concern with >> internet is sites are not always authentic >> but I've found some with .org domains to be okay at least to get >> started. >> >> Thanks for the advice. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Derek Manners via nabs-l >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:11 AM >> To: justin williams ; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance >> >> I can't speak to the accessibility options but just generally, >> your research >> librarians are bored and would love to help you out. I rely on >> mine all the >> time. Also, I also tend to read a lot of articles that don't pan >> out so I >> also think this is pretty common. >> >> I'd also agree with the comment about needing to know something >> about the >> topic. My approach is to google/Wikipedia the topic or topics >> first. Then >> check my textbook if the topic is in there. Then I do a little >> searching. >> But if I get stuck, I turn to the research librarian pretty >> quickly to get >> moving. >> >> Best >> Derek >> >> PS >> I use zoom text so that is why I can't speak to the accessibility >> options. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 10:00 AM, justin williams via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Oops, How did that not go to the list? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Mary >> Fernandez >> via nabs-l >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:56 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance >> >> I think Justin meant to send this to the whole list >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: justin williams > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:53:05 -0400 >> Subject: RE: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance >> To: Mary Fernandez > >> I take each paper as a separate entity as far as accessibility >> is >> concerned. >> I take a day of two and just do the research. In other words, I >> have no >> intent to write the paper, but to simply get the articles I want >> and >> figure >> out my base for the paper. Folks, I spend 6 to 8 hours, but I >> get 6 to 7 >> articles and sometimes more, though I have found any more than >> about 9 or >> 10 >> more cumbersome then helpful. I work out all the >> accessibility issues >> before I do anything with writing the paper. Don't forget your >> nls books, >> or books on the blio. Sometimes the articles are pdfs, and >> other times >> they >> are web based; I try to stick to web based, but that is not >> always >> possible. >> Pdfs can be made accessible in a variety of ways, but sometimes, >> none of >> those ways are adequate; the article can still become unusable. >> I have >> found google scholar inaccessible for obtaining the articles, If >> someone >> has >> a tip for this, please share. I write down my citations for >> each articles >> and save them in a separate file. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mary Fernandez [mailto:trillian551 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:44 AM >> To: justin williams; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance >> >> All, >> I think this is a fabulous topic! First, research skills are >> ones which >> are >> not necessarily intuitive, and which all successful college >> students learn >> to refine and perfect throughout their college career. >> Unfortunately, there are numerous accessibility barriers with >> databases >> and >> eBooks, which others have access too readily. Part of the >> answer, and >> Ashley, you are on the right track, is to learn how to most >> effectively >> use >> databases, and search tools like Google Scholar. >> Most universities have workshops that students can attend, and >> which focus >> specifically on research, many times even by topic. Through my >> senior year >> in college, it wasn't strange for a class, which had a major >> research >> paper >> do at the end of the semester, to have a class scheduled at the >> library, >> and >> have a reference librarian show us the tips and tricks. The >> other half of >> the equation, is to be creative with using your assistive >> software, a lot >> of >> times websites are inaccessible enough to be a nightmare, but >> sometimes >> there is a hidden work around, like using the different cursor >> modes in >> Jaws, right clicking instead of pressing enter, etc. This makes >> things >> more >> time consuming than they ought to be, but unfortunately, until >> we can get >> this trend of technology being developed inaccessibly reversed, >> we must >> live >> with that reality. >> As far as articles, that's part of research. You do your best to >> narrow >> down >> the material you get back by using good search terminology, by >> categorizing, >> by reading the abstract, but at one point you have to just read >> the >> articles. No one article is going to give you all the >> information your >> need, >> that's why you use so many citations at the end of the day, >> because one >> part >> of one paper may be of relevance, but the other twenty pages >> aren't. Good >> research takes time, and the better you get at it, the better >> you become >> at >> using that time more efficiently. >> As far as PDFs, I've been suggesting to students to ask for >> Adobe Pro from >> VR or to purchase it if possible. If you take the time to learn >> some >> accessibility remediation techniques with Adobe, many tutorials >> are >> available online, you can tag your own pdfs and fix reading >> order and >> navigation. It won't be perfect, but at least it'll make them >> legible. >> Kurzweil 1000 is also incredibly useful. If it's 2 AM and the >> paper is due >> in six hours, not that I've ever been there, you can save pdfs >> to your pc, >> run them through Kurzweil and that way the articles become >> legible if not >> perfect. >> Last, not all databases are created equal. Depending on your >> subject, you >> may want to filter through subjects when choosing databases, for >> the >> humanities I found EPSCO databases to be really accessible, >> Jstor, >> PsychInfo, the Oxford databases, and quite a few others were >> very good. >> And >> some won't be. There are so many tips and tricks to conducting >> research, >> so >> I strongly suggest seeing if a college does those research >> workshops, and >> just taking the time to figure out what works for you and what >> doesn't. >> Unfortunately, there isn't a universal answer when it comes to >> accessibility. We must advocate for manufacturers and >> universities to >> become >> responsible for only procuring and implementing accessible >> learning tools, >> but that's a battle that has to be fought outside the research >> library! >> Thanks. >> Mary >> >> >> On 8/25/14, justin williams via nabs-l >> wrote: >> It just depends on what I am looking for; I take pieces parts of >> several articles, and just put them together into a research >> paper. >> It helps to no something about your topic. If you have no >> knowledge >> about a topic, get a book from nls to start you off, then fine >> your >> articles. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sofia >> Gallo via nabs-l >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:33 AM >> To: Helga Schreiber; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research techniques and assistance >> >> I also have to read a lot of the article to see if it's relevant >> but I >> thought this was true for everyone? >> >> Sofia >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi all! I have the same questions as Ashley. For me, research is >> not >> so easy as well!! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much >> and God >> bless!! :-) >> >> Helga Schreiber >> >> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota >> chapter. >> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida >> Association of >> Blind Students. >> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT). >> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research. >> Phone: (561) 706-5950 >> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Skype: helga.schreiber26 >> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx >> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, >> that >> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." >> John >> 3:16 Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l >> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Its been my experience that research is very challenging. Have >> you >> run into these issues? >> >> Not all databases are fully accessible, although that has been >> better in the past couple years. >> For instance, academic search complete and other Search complete >> databases do not let you change the combo box from the default >> and >> to read "or". This means it would look for search terms A and B >> or >> search term C. >> >> Other challenges I've had are evaluating if the article is >> relevant. >> I do read abstracts first and think through it. It seems like I >> read >> most of an article only to realize its not relevant. >> Also, some articlesare pdfs with words smashed together; I end >> up >> asking a reader to read them. >> >> What assistance have you had with research? All school libraries >> have reference librarians at a certain desk. Do you just ask >> them >> where to look? Have you needed or wanted more help learning the >> databases and electronic references? Has the librarians worked >> 1 on >> 1 with you? At the community college and my university, >> Marymount, >> they did assist me a little privately to get me started. They >> gave >> me specific instructions on what to click on and which boxes to >> check to get what I needed. I needed to limit to full text, for >> instance; also if I needed recent articles, I was taught how to >> write in >> the date range. >> >> These references seem inaccessible. Was that your experience? >> >> a.. Encyclopedia Britanica >> b.. Credo reference >> c.. Gale biography in context >> >> >> Also, books are not accessible and libraries have lots of them. >> How do you direct readers to find what you need? I've tried >> asking >> for headings and table of contents. This does not always work. >> Is >> skimming relevant chapters the best thing? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib >> er2 >> 6 >> %40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sofiagallo13% >> 40gm >> a >> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia >> ms2%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%4 >> 0gmai >> l.com >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget >> what >> you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will >> forget >> what >> you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." >> -- >> Maya Angelou >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia >> ms2%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd >> 16.law.harvard.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National > Federation of the Blind of Washington > Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind > > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 19:45:22 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:45:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list In-Reply-To: References: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com><53FB8C8F.7080203@gmail.com> Message-ID: hi cindy, its weird. I have windows 7 with windows mail. often reply works, but sometimes, I send it to one person only by accident. So, in other words, control r does different things. To be sure it gets to the right list, I often shift tab now and check my edit fields. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Bennett via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list Ok, cool, glad to hear about the variations. I've just seen a couple of recent instances where people intended to reply to the list but replied to an individual so I thought it might be worth people checking their clients to see how they reply. Cindy On 8/25/14, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > Here on my Windows7 system with Thunderbird, Control+r (reply) went to > the Nabs-l list as always. > > El 25/08/2014 02:18 p.m., Cindy Bennett via nabs-l escribió: >> Hi Justin and Matthew, your messages went to me and NABS. I don't >> particularly mind since I use Gmail and it intelligently threads >> messages that I receive duplicates of, but other peoples' email >> clients may not do that. That is why I brought up removing peoples' >> individual email addresses so they won't get duplicate messages. >> >> In any case, David Andrews can probably elaborate although >> unnecessary, but the NFB list serves were transitioned to a more >> reliable server within the past year. The lists have slightly changed, >> the replying annoyance is probably the most noticeable change. >> >> In any case, the transition vastly improved several behind-the-scenes >> factors related to managing all of our list serves, so I consider the >> annoyance manageable. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 8/25/14, Matthew Dierckens wrote: >>> Hi, I want to see if this is in fact the case when replying from the >>> mac. >>> Some lists you have to hit reply all, others you can hit reply. So if >>> you >>> are the only one receiving this let me know, if it went to the whole >>> list >>> let me know. >>> Thank you. >>> >>> God bless. :) >>> Matthew Dierckens >>> Macintosh Trainer >>> Blind Access Training >>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>> work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com >>> Personal email: matt.diercken >>> >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 15:07, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and to >>>> have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the "reply >>>> all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L is one >>>> recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is another >>>> recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, to be >>>> polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove peoples' >>>> individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and send >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most >>>> recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L community >>>> will miss your message. >>>> >>>> Cindy >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cindy Bennett >>>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >>>> Federation of the Blind of Washington >>>> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com >>> >> > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki > Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México > RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM > México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 19:54:55 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:54:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] marketing class accomodation Message-ID: <185E06F8A1F6470FB687713E34072DA7@OwnerPC> Hi all, Who has taken marketing? did you like the class? I want to learn more about the business environment and thought this would be a decent one. But, the professor I wanted has been changed to another one. I will try that, provided we can work out accomodations. Here is the issue. The professor assigns a semester long project with some interactive game. Its video based. With low vision and relying on my screen reader primarily, I cannot do the assignment. I asked for a work around, a substitute or work with a partner. I see her tomorrow to begin class. She informs me via email, no substitute is available and tells me how much the project is worth. Additionally she says I cannot work with a partner. I feel she needs to make accomodations. If I cannot get a work around such as doing a paper instead, I figure I will have to drop the class. Most of her class sounds doable; lectures; discussions, and some videos. But I think I could mostly participate. it’s the homework that is the barrier. So, what do I do? I am asking my dss counselor for advice. But sometimes she sides with professors. So we will just see. I know one thing. There is no way I’m wasting my money in a class where I cannot do an assignment worth slightly over 100 points. We have about 900 total possible points. Thanks. Ashley From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Mon Aug 25 20:02:16 2014 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:02:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] marketing class accomodation In-Reply-To: <185E06F8A1F6470FB687713E34072DA7@OwnerPC> References: <185E06F8A1F6470FB687713E34072DA7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I'd say talk to your counselor, then talk to your professor and if neither are accommodating then you could probably go to the dean of students if you really wanted to fight it. You might be better off avoiding this professor though. One other suggestion is to informally work with someone in your class if you have any friends who are taking it this semester. Keep us posted. This sounds like something they should fold on given that it's just a homework assignment and your fixes won't cost them any extra money. Best Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > > Who has taken marketing? did you like the class? I want to learn more about the business environment and thought this would be a decent one. > But, the professor I wanted has been changed to another one. I will try that, provided we can work out accomodations. > > Here is the issue. The professor assigns a semester long project with some interactive game. Its video based. With low vision and relying on my screen reader primarily, I cannot do the assignment. I asked for a work around, a substitute or work with a partner. > > I see her tomorrow to begin class. She informs me via email, no substitute is available and tells me how much the project is worth. Additionally she says I cannot work with a partner. > I feel she needs to make accomodations. > > If I cannot get a work around such as doing a paper instead, I figure I will have to drop the class. Most of her class sounds doable; lectures; discussions, and some videos. But I think I could mostly participate. it’s the homework that is the barrier. > > So, what do I do? I am asking my dss counselor for advice. But sometimes she sides with professors. So we will just see. > I know one thing. There is no way I’m wasting my money in a class where I cannot do an assignment worth slightly over 100 points. We have about 900 total possible points. > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From gloria.graves at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 20:15:21 2014 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria Graves) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:15:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide Message-ID: Hi all, I hope everyone is doing well. I'm purchasing a brown note apex from a friend of mine with a Quarty keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone had an electronic version of the user guide? I know this is something that can be found in a brown oh itself but just want to electronic copy. If anyone has one that to email me or direct me to where I could find one that would be great. Thank you so much Sent from my iPhone From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 20:18:00 2014 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:18:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] marketing class accomodation In-Reply-To: References: <185E06F8A1F6470FB687713E34072DA7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4D3DA753D5844233891097D65372E003@OwnerPC> Hi Derek, glad for the support. I agree and yes I might write a letter to the dean if needed. I feel they should grade me another way. Yes its homework, but it’s a major part of the grade. So I really cannot take the class without a substitute. As I said, I was planning to have another professor who does not do this assignment, but the school switched last minute. So, I'm stuck. I wish avoiding her was an option. but if I avoid her, I won't take marketing again. Prof Edwards was supposed to teach the class till it was changed. he teaches at night only; but that Ii s inconvenient to get there. Switching is not an option anyway as registration is closed so the only way to switch is with some high up approval. I am crossing my fingers the counselor is supportive. It seems to me reasonable accomodations should include alternate assignments provided the class is not altered significantly and you still derive the same knowledge as all others taking it. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Derek Manners Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 4:02 PM To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] marketing class accomodation I'd say talk to your counselor, then talk to your professor and if neither are accommodating then you could probably go to the dean of students if you really wanted to fight it. You might be better off avoiding this professor though. One other suggestion is to informally work with someone in your class if you have any friends who are taking it this semester. Keep us posted. This sounds like something they should fold on given that it's just a homework assignment and your fixes won't cost them any extra money. Best Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l > wrote: > > Hi all, > > Who has taken marketing? did you like the class? I want to learn more > about the business environment and thought this would be a decent one. > But, the professor I wanted has been changed to another one. I will try > that, provided we can work out accomodations. > > Here is the issue. The professor assigns a semester long project with some > interactive game. Its video based. With low vision and relying on my > screen reader primarily, I cannot do the assignment. I asked for a work > around, a substitute or work with a partner. > > I see her tomorrow to begin class. She informs me via email, no substitute > is available and tells me how much the project is worth. Additionally she > says I cannot work with a partner. > I feel she needs to make accomodations. > > If I cannot get a work around such as doing a paper instead, I figure I > will have to drop the class. Most of her class sounds doable; lectures; > discussions, and some videos. But I think I could mostly participate. it’s > the homework that is the barrier. > > So, what do I do? I am asking my dss counselor for advice. But sometimes > she sides with professors. So we will just see. > I know one thing. There is no way I’m wasting my money in a class where I > cannot do an assignment worth slightly over 100 points. We have about 900 > total possible points. > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Mon Aug 25 20:22:52 2014 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:22:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] marketing class accomodation In-Reply-To: <4D3DA753D5844233891097D65372E003@OwnerPC> References: <185E06F8A1F6470FB687713E34072DA7@OwnerPC> <4D3DA753D5844233891097D65372E003@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I completely agree. It sounds like you a doing the right thing. As long as you keep fighting, they will almost certainly fold because at the end of the day, you've got the moral high ground and the logical position. Best Derek Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:18 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi Derek, > glad for the support. I agree and yes I might write a letter to the dean if needed. > I feel they should grade me another way. Yes its homework, but it’s a major part of the grade. > So I really cannot take the class without a substitute. > As I said, I was planning to have another professor who does not do this assignment, but the school switched last minute. > So, I'm stuck. I wish avoiding her was an option. but if I avoid her, I won't take marketing again. Prof Edwards was supposed to teach the class till it was changed. he teaches at night only; but that Ii s inconvenient to get there. > Switching is not an option anyway as registration is closed so the only way to switch is with some high up approval. > > I am crossing my fingers the counselor is supportive. > It seems to me reasonable accomodations should include alternate assignments provided the class is not altered significantly and you still derive the same knowledge as all others taking it. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- From: Derek Manners > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 4:02 PM > To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] marketing class accomodation > > I'd say talk to your counselor, then talk to your professor and if neither are accommodating then you could probably go to the dean of students if you really wanted to fight it. You might be better off avoiding this professor though. One other suggestion is to informally work with someone in your class if you have any friends who are taking it this semester. > > Keep us posted. This sounds like something they should fold on given that it's just a homework assignment and your fixes won't cost them any extra money. > > Best > Derek Manners > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Who has taken marketing? did you like the class? I want to learn more about the business environment and thought this would be a decent one. >> But, the professor I wanted has been changed to another one. I will try that, provided we can work out accomodations. >> >> Here is the issue. The professor assigns a semester long project with some interactive game. Its video based. With low vision and relying on my screen reader primarily, I cannot do the assignment. I asked for a work around, a substitute or work with a partner. >> >> I see her tomorrow to begin class. She informs me via email, no substitute is available and tells me how much the project is worth. Additionally she says I cannot work with a partner. >> I feel she needs to make accomodations. >> >> If I cannot get a work around such as doing a paper instead, I figure I will have to drop the class. Most of her class sounds doable; lectures; discussions, and some videos. But I think I could mostly participate. it’s the homework that is the barrier. >> >> So, what do I do? I am asking my dss counselor for advice. But sometimes she sides with professors. So we will just see. >> I know one thing. There is no way I’m wasting my money in a class where I cannot do an assignment worth slightly over 100 points. We have about 900 total possible points. >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 20:39:29 2014 From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:39:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness and the Military Message-ID: <6F9C4E79-0253-4351-9BF5-562980879F22@gmail.com> Hi all, I am curious to know the general opinion on the topic of blind people serving in the US military. It has always been a dream of mine to serve, but unfortunately, given my blindness, this does not seem possible. Or is it? Does anyone know of congenitally blind soldiers? Personally, I think blind people could serve the military well, especially in the inteligence and communications departments. They could even opperate distance weaponry )e.g. droans), although that might be a bit more difficult. What do you all think? If it is actually against policy for blind people to serve in the armed forces, I think this would be a good cause for the NFB to take up. Thanks in advance for your feedback. Ryan L. Silveira From louvins at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 20:44:41 2014 From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:44:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gloria. I'd suggest checking out www.humanware.com. Congrads on your purchase of your new braillenote. I'd love to get my hands on a braille-note apex. Good luck. On 8/25/14, Gloria Graves via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I hope everyone is doing well. I'm purchasing a brown note apex from a > friend of mine with a Quarty keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone had an > electronic version of the user guide? I know this is something that can be > found in a brown oh itself but just want to electronic copy. If anyone has > one that to email me or direct me to where I could find one that would be > great. Thank you so much > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com > From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Mon Aug 25 21:02:37 2014 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:02:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness and the Military In-Reply-To: <6F9C4E79-0253-4351-9BF5-562980879F22@gmail.com> References: <6F9C4E79-0253-4351-9BF5-562980879F22@gmail.com> Message-ID: Howdy Ryan, I too shared this dream and actually did a fair amount of effort in trying to get a medical waiver. Technically a blind person can apply for a medical waiver to get into the military. However, in practice, I was told that no blind person would ever really get one. For example, I was interested in being a JAG (military lawyer). Despite an impeccable résumé on the legal end, the problem is that any member or the services is considered a soldier first and a (fill in the blank) second. E.G. A jag is considered a soldier first and a lawyer second. That's the party line. However, I agree with you and think this is something that we ought to fight against as the rationale is a bit silly IMO. I mean really, how many lawyers are going to fire a gun in a hot war? In the meantime, there are a number of rewarding civilian jobs available if you want to pursue your desire to serve our country and the military specifically. There are a ton of civilian IT, communications, support, analyst, etc. type jobs at the DoD and other international security institutions within the government. I personally worked at DoD this summer as a legal intern at the pentagon and it was an amazing experience. If this is something you'd like to pursue, you can email me off list or text or call at 9032716494. I have a few connections at DoD and State. Best Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:39 PM, Ryan Silveira via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am curious to know the general opinion on the topic of blind people serving in the US military. It has always been a dream of mine to serve, but unfortunately, given my blindness, this does not seem possible. Or is it? Does anyone know of congenitally blind soldiers? Personally, I think blind people could serve the military well, especially in the inteligence and communications departments. They could even opperate distance weaponry )e.g. droans), although that might be a bit more difficult. What do you all think? If it is actually against policy for blind people to serve in the armed forces, I think this would be a good cause for the NFB to take up. Thanks in advance for your feedback. > > > Ryan L. Silveira > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 21:07:53 2014 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:07:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] marketing class accomodation In-Reply-To: <185E06F8A1F6470FB687713E34072DA7@OwnerPC> References: <185E06F8A1F6470FB687713E34072DA7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <6BD39DFF-323A-477D-8837-6DF6B657BD5D@gmail.com> You should absolutely not waste your time if the professor is not going to bend and your disability services people won't help you. It's not worth it. There should be some way to work around this homework assignment. The professor and the university need to make an accommodation. As others have said, you can go to the Dean if you really want to. Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association of blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > > Hi all, > > Who has taken marketing? did you like the class? I want to learn more about the business environment and thought this would be a decent one. > But, the professor I wanted has been changed to another one. I will try that, provided we can work out accomodations. > > Here is the issue. The professor assigns a semester long project with some interactive game. Its video based. With low vision and relying on my screen reader primarily, I cannot do the assignment. I asked for a work around, a substitute or work with a partner. > > I see her tomorrow to begin class. She informs me via email, no substitute is available and tells me how much the project is worth. Additionally she says I cannot work with a partner. > I feel she needs to make accomodations. > > If I cannot get a work around such as doing a paper instead, I figure I will have to drop the class. Most of her class sounds doable; lectures; discussions, and some videos. But I think I could mostly participate. it’s the homework that is the barrier. > > So, what do I do? I am asking my dss counselor for advice. But sometimes she sides with professors. So we will just see. > I know one thing. There is no way I’m wasting my money in a class where I cannot do an assignment worth slightly over 100 points. We have about 900 total possible points. > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 21:13:52 2014 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:13:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide Message-ID: <53fba712.4859e00a.1c73.4b91@mx.google.com> The manual that can be found on the braillenote is digital, and it's very thorough. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Hendrickson via nabs-l , National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Hi all, I hope everyone is doing well. I'm purchasing a brown note apex from a friend of mine with a Quarty keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone had an electronic version of the user guide? I know this is something that can be found in a brown oh itself but just want to electronic copy. If anyone has one that to email me or direct me to where I could find one that would be great. Thank you so much Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Aug 25 21:19:25 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:19:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness and the Military In-Reply-To: <6F9C4E79-0253-4351-9BF5-562980879F22@gmail.com> References: <6F9C4E79-0253-4351-9BF5-562980879F22@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good afternoon, Ryan, They won't even let flat-footed people in the friggen Army! Find another dream would be my suggestion! Car >I am curious to know the general opinion on the topic of blind >people serving in the US military. It has always been a dream of >mine to serve, but unfortunately, given my blindness, this does not >seem possible. Or is it? Does anyone know of congenitally blind >soldiers? Personally, I think blind people could serve the military >well, especially in the inteligence and communications >departments. They could even opperate distance weaponry )e.g. >droans), although that might be a bit more difficult. What do you >all think? If it is actually against policy for blind people to >serve in the armed forces, I think this would be a good cause for >the NFB to take up. Thanks in advance for your feedback. > > >Ryan L. Silveira >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From michael.capelle at charter.net Mon Aug 25 21:23:38 2014 From: michael.capelle at charter.net (Michael Capelle) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:23:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness and the Military In-Reply-To: References: <6F9C4E79-0253-4351-9BF5-562980879F22@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5339813EA07E433889312F04B41BB95A@MikePC> no, a blind person can not serve in the millitary, and i think we should be given the opportunity to. -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 4:19 PM To: Ryan Silveira ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness and the Military Good afternoon, Ryan, They won't even let flat-footed people in the friggen Army! Find another dream would be my suggestion! Car >I am curious to know the general opinion on the topic of blind people >serving in the US military. It has always been a dream of mine to serve, >but unfortunately, given my blindness, this does not seem possible. Or is >it? Does anyone know of congenitally blind soldiers? Personally, I think >blind people could serve the military well, especially in the inteligence >and communications departments. They could even opperate distance >weaponry )e.g. droans), although that might be a bit more difficult. What >do you all think? If it is actually against policy for blind people to >serve in the armed forces, I think this would be a good cause for the NFB >to take up. Thanks in advance for your feedback. > > >Ryan L. Silveira >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/michael.capelle%40charter.net From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Mon Aug 25 21:26:12 2014 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:26:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness and the Military In-Reply-To: <53fba87c.f41d8c0a.7985.ffffc6efSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <6F9C4E79-0253-4351-9BF5-562980879F22@gmail.com> <53fba87c.f41d8c0a.7985.ffffc6efSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2D165F4C-512E-4E7A-8837-2450055AAA30@jd16.law.harvard.edu> While I appreciate the opinion and you are certainly welcome to it, I'd encourage everyone to try to be informed about what they say. A flat footed person can join the military now. Now granted they probably wouldn't let someone with flat feet join a special ops unit, however, I know multiple people who have flat feet that are in the military. They've relaxed the standards considerably over the past few decades. Best Derek Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l wrote: > > Good afternoon, Ryan, > > They won't even let flat-footed people in the friggen Army! Find another dream would be my suggestion! > Car > >> I am curious to know the general opinion on the topic of blind people serving in the US military. It has always been a dream of mine to serve, but unfortunately, given my blindness, this does not seem possible. Or is it? Does anyone know of congenitally blind soldiers? Personally, I think blind people could serve the military well, especially in the inteligence and communications departments. They could even opperate distance weaponry )e.g. droans), although that might be a bit more difficult. What do you all think? If it is actually against policy for blind people to serve in the armed forces, I think this would be a good cause for the NFB to take up. Thanks in advance for your feedback. >> >> >> Ryan L. Silveira >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From gloria.graves at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 21:51:14 2014 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:51:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide References: <53fba712.4859e00a.1c73.4b91@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0C82A5390F8447CCBE300C0CC2B19E38@Gloria> Hi, I am purchasing this braille note from a friend and she has misplaced the disk with the user guide. I looked on the humanware site, and there is a user guide for the apex but it is a bit confusing to read. I am use to using the braille note with a braille keybord, but this braille note has a qt keybord, and I know there are some things I am going to have to get use to with this particular keybord. Can anyone give me any assistance? I am going to pick the braille note up from her tonight. Thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist via nabs-l" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide > The manual that can be found on the braillenote is digital, and it's very > thorough. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Hendrickson via nabs-l To: Gloria Graves , National Association of Blind > Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:44:41 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide > > Hi Gloria. I'd suggest checking out www.humanware.com. Congrads on > your purchase of your new braillenote. I'd love to get my hands on a > braille-note apex. Good luck. > > On 8/25/14, Gloria Graves via nabs-l wrote: > Hi all, > I hope everyone is doing well. I'm purchasing a brown note apex from a > friend of mine with a Quarty keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone had > an > electronic version of the user guide? I know this is something that can be > found in a brown oh itself but just want to electronic copy. If anyone has > one that to email me or direct me to where I could find one that would be > great. Thank you so much > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From matt.dierckens at me.com Mon Aug 25 21:54:25 2014 From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:54:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide In-Reply-To: <0C82A5390F8447CCBE300C0CC2B19E38@Gloria> References: <53fba712.4859e00a.1c73.4b91@mx.google.com> <0C82A5390F8447CCBE300C0CC2B19E38@Gloria> Message-ID: I believe the user guide is still in the notetaker itself. Not sure of the keystroke with the QT God bless. :) Matthew Dierckens Macintosh Trainer Blind Access Training www.blindaccesstraining.com 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Personal email: matt.diercken On Aug 25, 2014, at 17:51, Gloria G via nabs-l wrote: > Hi, > I am purchasing this braille note from a friend and she has misplaced the disk with the user guide. I looked on the humanware site, and there is a user guide for the apex but it is a bit confusing to read. I am use to using the braille note with a braille keybord, but this braille note has a qt keybord, and I know there are some things I am going to have to get use to with this particular keybord. Can anyone give me any assistance? I am going to pick the braille note up from her tonight. Thanks! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist via nabs-l" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide > > >> The manual that can be found on the braillenote is digital, and it's very thorough. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Hendrickson via nabs-l > To: Gloria Graves , National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:44:41 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide >> >> Hi Gloria. I'd suggest checking out www.humanware.com. Congrads on >> your purchase of your new braillenote. I'd love to get my hands on a >> braille-note apex. Good luck. >> >> On 8/25/14, Gloria Graves via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi all, >> I hope everyone is doing well. I'm purchasing a brown note apex from a >> friend of mine with a Quarty keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone had an >> electronic version of the user guide? I know this is something that can be >> found in a brown oh itself but just want to electronic copy. If anyone has >> one that to email me or direct me to where I could find one that would be >> great. Thank you so much >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 22:05:35 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:05:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide In-Reply-To: <0C82A5390F8447CCBE300C0CC2B19E38@Gloria> References: <53fba712.4859e00a.1c73.4b91@mx.google.com> <0C82A5390F8447CCBE300C0CC2B19E38@Gloria> Message-ID: <53FBB32F.8080206@gmail.com> Which userGuide is confusing? because 'I've got both, the QT and BT which I downloaded form the Humanware site; I have both because I wasn't sure which of the two Apex models I'd get. Just let me know. El 25/08/2014 04:51 p.m., Gloria G via nabs-l escribió: > Hi, > I am purchasing this braille note from a friend and she has misplaced > the disk with the user guide. I looked on the humanware site, and > there is a user guide for the apex but it is a bit confusing to read. > I am use to using the braille note with a braille keybord, but this > braille note has a qt keybord, and I know there are some things I am > going to have to get use to with this particular keybord. Can anyone > give me any assistance? I am going to pick the braille note up from > her tonight. Thanks! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist via nabs-l" > > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide > > >> The manual that can be found on the braillenote is digital, and it's >> very thorough. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Hendrickson via nabs-l > To: Gloria Graves , National Association of >> Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:44:41 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide >> >> Hi Gloria. I'd suggest checking out www.humanware.com. Congrads on >> your purchase of your new braillenote. I'd love to get my hands on a >> braille-note apex. Good luck. >> >> On 8/25/14, Gloria Graves via nabs-l wrote: >> Hi all, >> I hope everyone is doing well. I'm purchasing a brown note apex from a >> friend of mine with a Quarty keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone >> had an >> electronic version of the user guide? I know this is something that >> can be >> found in a brown oh itself but just want to electronic copy. If >> anyone has >> one that to email me or direct me to where I could find one that >> would be >> great. Thank you so much >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From gera1027 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 22:06:33 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:06:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide In-Reply-To: References: <53fba712.4859e00a.1c73.4b91@mx.google.com> <0C82A5390F8447CCBE300C0CC2B19E38@Gloria> Message-ID: <53FBB369.2010405@gmail.com> Using the BT, you access with BackSpace+Enter+h, but in the QT, anyone know? El 25/08/2014 04:54 p.m., Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l escribió: > I believe the user guide is still in the notetaker itself. Not sure of the keystroke with the QT > God bless. :) > Matthew Dierckens > Macintosh Trainer > Blind Access Training > www.blindaccesstraining.com > 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com > Personal email: matt.diercken > > On Aug 25, 2014, at 17:51, Gloria G via nabs-l wrote: > >> Hi, >> I am purchasing this braille note from a friend and she has misplaced the disk with the user guide. I looked on the humanware site, and there is a user guide for the apex but it is a bit confusing to read. I am use to using the braille note with a braille keybord, but this braille note has a qt keybord, and I know there are some things I am going to have to get use to with this particular keybord. Can anyone give me any assistance? I am going to pick the braille note up from her tonight. Thanks! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist via nabs-l" >> To:; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 4:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide >> >> >>> The manual that can be found on the braillenote is digital, and it's very thorough. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Joshua Hendrickson via nabs-l>> To: Gloria Graves, National Association of Blind Students mailing list>> Date sent: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:44:41 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide >>> >>> Hi Gloria. I'd suggest checking out www.humanware.com. Congrads on >>> your purchase of your new braillenote. I'd love to get my hands on a >>> braille-note apex. Good luck. >>> >>> On 8/25/14, Gloria Graves via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I hope everyone is doing well. I'm purchasing a brown note apex from a >>> friend of mine with a Quarty keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone had an >>> electronic version of the user guide? I know this is something that can be >>> found in a brown oh itself but just want to electronic copy. If anyone has >>> one that to email me or direct me to where I could find one that would be >>> great. Thank you so much >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Mon Aug 25 22:18:51 2014 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:18:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list In-Reply-To: References: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com> <53FB8C8F.7080203@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Cindy and All, I too have noticed that messages will sometimes be sent to an individual when I thought they were being sent to the email list. However, I have not been able to figure out any kind of pattern in which this occurs. I use the same reply command when replying to messages. Sometimes the address to the email list is listed in the address field, and sometimes it is not. I have tried to be more disciplined in checking the address field to make sure the address to the email list appears there since noticing this problem a couple of months ago. I would suggest others doing this as well. Warm regards, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list Ok, cool, glad to hear about the variations. I've just seen a couple of recent instances where people intended to reply to the list but replied to an individual so I thought it might be worth people checking their clients to see how they reply. Cindy On 8/25/14, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > Here on my Windows7 system with Thunderbird, Control+r (reply) went > to the Nabs-l list as always. > > El 25/08/2014 02:18 p.m., Cindy Bennett via nabs-l escribió: >> Hi Justin and Matthew, your messages went to me and NABS. I don't >> particularly mind since I use Gmail and it intelligently threads >> messages that I receive duplicates of, but other peoples' email >> clients may not do that. That is why I brought up removing peoples' >> individual email addresses so they won't get duplicate messages. >> >> In any case, David Andrews can probably elaborate although >> unnecessary, but the NFB list serves were transitioned to a more >> reliable server within the past year. The lists have slightly >> changed, the replying annoyance is probably the most noticeable change. >> >> In any case, the transition vastly improved several behind-the-scenes >> factors related to managing all of our list serves, so I consider the >> annoyance manageable. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 8/25/14, Matthew Dierckens wrote: >>> Hi, I want to see if this is in fact the case when replying from the >>> mac. >>> Some lists you have to hit reply all, others you can hit reply. So >>> if you are the only one receiving this let me know, if it went to >>> the whole list let me know. >>> Thank you. >>> >>> God bless. :) >>> Matthew Dierckens >>> Macintosh Trainer >>> Blind Access Training >>> www.blindaccesstraining.com >>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 >>> work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Personal email: >>> matt.diercken >>> >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 15:07, Cindy Bennett via >>> nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and >>>> to have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the >>>> "reply all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L >>>> is one recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is >>>> another recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, >>>> to be polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove peoples' >>>> individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and >>>> send it. >>>> >>>> Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most >>>> recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L >>>> community will miss your message. >>>> >>>> Cindy >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cindy Bennett >>>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >>>> Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National >>>> Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens% >>>> 40me.com >>> >> > > -- > Enviado desde mi lap > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde > Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de > psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México > http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > -- Cindy Bennett Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind clb5590 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 22:33:27 2014 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:33:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Let's share How I started with computers Message-ID: <53FBB9B7.3080209@gmail.com> HI guys OK I'm kind of nostalgic with in the US being the first day of school and such details, thus I wonder if maybe starting a thread on how we started with technology, especially computers/notetakers to go back memory lane? Here's my story: Back in around the summer of 91, my VI teacher thought it was time for me to be started on computers, thus she recommended my parents buy the Keysoft system from Humanware; by the way I was about to start the 7th grade, and my Vi teacher changed jobs, so imagine new grade plus new computer? Anyway I started with Keysoft 1.32 on a Desktop machine, in which you had to take the machine apart and insert some kind of card on which the synthesizer was on; the synthesizer chosen was the Keynote Gold. Anyway as soon as I got back from vacation (fortunately it was a few days before school started so I had time) I began listening to the Keysoft cassettes, and working out little by little with the software. Imagine my feeling of victory the first time I wrote my summer's trip story all by myself, or when I turned in my first written assignment to school, or when I wrote my first letter to my grandparents? Let's backtrack Several years before (maybe around 1988, I'd taken typing lessons in school, thus my parents bought me my first electric typewriter, but it's not the same typing away, versus typing and being able to review, correct mistakes)! Continuing the story, I worked with Keysoft first on a Desktop for several months, with the card synthesizer, and then in March of 92, my folks bbought me a Laptop with an external Keynote Gold synthesizer, Keysoft 1.33 and the MasterTouch screen reader; remember that setup? Time went on; in around 94/95, the school gave me a taste of other technology which I used until my High School graduation (Braille Lite, and Keynote Companion), but because these had to be returned to the school, we began finding a way to get myself a BrailleLite since i'd need to be able to read/write in Spanish, thus the Keynote Companion was out of the question back then. Anyway the university donated me a Braille Lite18 which I used until around 2004 all through my major and graduate, until it's battery died. So I was without a notetaker and missing its advantages and stuck with a Laptop with Jaws, in 2012 an IPhone which my parents bought, until thanks to an essay contest geared for blind people outside the US, in which they gave away several notetakers, I got my Apex! So how did you guys start using technology? Even when some of you are out of school, aside from if you've had luck with the rehabilitation agency purchasing, how have you guys continued to have/use it? -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! From marissat789 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 22:34:54 2014 From: marissat789 at gmail.com (Marissa Tejeda) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:34:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide Message-ID: <53fbba35.0d25460a.1b9c.24b3@mx.google.com> You could also try the braille note users site. www.braillenoteusers.info This site has both articles and media resources to help. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist via nabs-l , National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Hi all, I hope everyone is doing well. I'm purchasing a brown note apex from a friend of mine with a Quarty keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone had an electronic version of the user guide? I know this is something that can be found in a brown oh itself but just want to electronic copy. If anyone has one that to email me or direct me to where I could find one that would be great. Thank you so much Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marissat789%4 0gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Mon Aug 25 22:40:50 2014 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:40:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list In-Reply-To: References: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com> <53FB8C8F.7080203@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you use lists from a variety of sources, then this can be different list settings. On nfbnet.org I try to set everything the same, when possible to avoid confusion. HOwever, if you use lists from a different source, then they may have reply go back to the poster instead of the list. Dave At 05:18 PM 8/25/2014, you wrote: >Hello Cindy and All, > >I too have noticed that messages will sometimes be sent to an individual >when I thought they were being sent to the email list. However, I have not >been able to figure out any kind of pattern in which this occurs. I use the >same reply command when replying to messages. Sometimes the address to the >email list is listed in the address field, and sometimes it is not. I have >tried to be more disciplined in checking the address field to make sure the >address to the email list appears there since noticing this problem a couple >of months ago. I would suggest others doing this as well. > >Warm regards, >Elizabeth > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett >via nabs-l >Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:34 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list > >Ok, cool, glad to hear about the variations. I've just seen a couple of >recent instances where people intended to reply to the list but replied to >an individual so I thought it might be worth people checking their clients >to see how they reply. >Cindy >On 8/25/14, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > > Here on my Windows7 system with Thunderbird, Control+r (reply) went > > to the Nabs-l list as always. > > > > El 25/08/2014 02:18 p.m., Cindy Bennett via nabs-l escribió: > >> Hi Justin and Matthew, your messages went to me and NABS. I don't > >> particularly mind since I use Gmail and it intelligently threads > >> messages that I receive duplicates of, but other peoples' email > >> clients may not do that. That is why I brought up removing peoples' > >> individual email addresses so they won't get duplicate messages. > >> > >> In any case, David Andrews can probably elaborate although > >> unnecessary, but the NFB list serves were transitioned to a more > >> reliable server within the past year. The lists have slightly > >> changed, the replying annoyance is probably the most noticeable change. > >> > >> In any case, the transition vastly improved several behind-the-scenes > >> factors related to managing all of our list serves, so I consider the > >> annoyance manageable. > >> > >> Cindy > >> > >> On 8/25/14, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > >>> Hi, I want to see if this is in fact the case when replying from the > >>> mac. > >>> Some lists you have to hit reply all, others you can hit reply. So > >>> if you are the only one receiving this let me know, if it went to > >>> the whole list let me know. > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> God bless. :) > >>> Matthew Dierckens > >>> Macintosh Trainer > >>> Blind Access Training > >>> www.blindaccesstraining.com > >>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > >>> work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Personal email: > >>> matt.diercken > >>> > >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 15:07, Cindy Bennett via > >>> nabs-l > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and > >>>> to have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the > >>>> "reply all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L > >>>> is one recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is > >>>> another recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, > >>>> to be polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove >peoples' > >>>> individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and > >>>> send it. > >>>> > >>>> Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most > >>>> recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L > >>>> community will miss your message. > >>>> > >>>> Cindy > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Cindy Bennett > >>>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National > >>>> Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National > >>>> Federation of the Blind > >>>> > >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens% > >>>> 40me.com > >>> > >> > > > > -- > > Enviado desde mi lap > > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde > > Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de > > psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México > > http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > > > > > David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Mon Aug 25 23:00:21 2014 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:00:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list In-Reply-To: References: <463C20E3-1F91-4B54-B5E0-B5EC177F453A@me.com> <53FB8C8F.7080203@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Dave, I am talking specifically about the NFB email lists here. I have a Windows 7 computer with Outlook 2013, and I use the same reply command when replying to messages. Like I said in my previous message, whether or not the address for the email list is automatically inserted in the address field really seems hit or miss for me. For example, my previous response to this thread automatically inserted the address for the email list in the address field, but for this message, I had to insert it myself as it did not automatically appear in the address field. It is like certain replies will not include the address for the email list automatically, but I have yet to figure out any kind of pattern to this problem. Again, this is something that I am seeing on the NFB email lists. Warm regards, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: David Andrews [mailto:dandrews at visi.com] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 6:41 PM To: Elizabeth Mohnke; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list If you use lists from a variety of sources, then this can be different list settings. On nfbnet.org I try to set everything the same, when possible to avoid confusion. HOwever, if you use lists from a different source, then they may have reply go back to the poster instead of the list. Dave At 05:18 PM 8/25/2014, you wrote: >Hello Cindy and All, > >I too have noticed that messages will sometimes be sent to an individual >when I thought they were being sent to the email list. However, I have not >been able to figure out any kind of pattern in which this occurs. I use the >same reply command when replying to messages. Sometimes the address to the >email list is listed in the address field, and sometimes it is not. I have >tried to be more disciplined in checking the address field to make sure the >address to the email list appears there since noticing this problem a couple >of months ago. I would suggest others doing this as well. > >Warm regards, >Elizabeth > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett >via nabs-l >Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:34 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Important: Replying to posts on list > >Ok, cool, glad to hear about the variations. I've just seen a couple of >recent instances where people intended to reply to the list but replied to >an individual so I thought it might be worth people checking their clients >to see how they reply. >Cindy >On 8/25/14, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > > Here on my Windows7 system with Thunderbird, Control+r (reply) went > > to the Nabs-l list as always. > > > > El 25/08/2014 02:18 p.m., Cindy Bennett via nabs-l escribió: > >> Hi Justin and Matthew, your messages went to me and NABS. I don't > >> particularly mind since I use Gmail and it intelligently threads > >> messages that I receive duplicates of, but other peoples' email > >> clients may not do that. That is why I brought up removing peoples' > >> individual email addresses so they won't get duplicate messages. > >> > >> In any case, David Andrews can probably elaborate although > >> unnecessary, but the NFB list serves were transitioned to a more > >> reliable server within the past year. The lists have slightly > >> changed, the replying annoyance is probably the most noticeable change. > >> > >> In any case, the transition vastly improved several behind-the-scenes > >> factors related to managing all of our list serves, so I consider the > >> annoyance manageable. > >> > >> Cindy > >> > >> On 8/25/14, Matthew Dierckens wrote: > >>> Hi, I want to see if this is in fact the case when replying from the > >>> mac. > >>> Some lists you have to hit reply all, others you can hit reply. So > >>> if you are the only one receiving this let me know, if it went to > >>> the whole list let me know. > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> God bless. :) > >>> Matthew Dierckens > >>> Macintosh Trainer > >>> Blind Access Training > >>> www.blindaccesstraining.com > >>> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3 > >>> work email: matthew at blindaccesstraining.com Personal email: > >>> matt.diercken > >>> > >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 15:07, Cindy Bennett via > >>> nabs-l > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> I just wanted to drop in and mention that to reply to a thread and > >>>> to have your message appear on list, often, you need to press the > >>>> "reply all" button. This will bring up a blank message where NABS-L > >>>> is one recipient, and often, the person you are replying to is > >>>> another recipient; sometimes there is a 3rd recipient. In any case, > >>>> to be polite unless you intend to contact someone off list, remove >peoples' > >>>> individual addresses and then proceed to write your message and > >>>> send it. > >>>> > >>>> Pressing the "reply" button will reply to the person who wrote most > >>>> recently and only them which means that the greater NABS-L > >>>> community will miss your message. > >>>> > >>>> Cindy > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Cindy Bennett > >>>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National > >>>> Federation of the Blind of Washington Affiliates of the National > >>>> Federation of the Blind > >>>> > >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens% > >>>> 40me.com > >>> > >> > > > > -- > > Enviado desde mi lap > > Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde > > Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de > > psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México > > http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! > > > > > > David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Aug 25 23:17:03 2014 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:17:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Ryan, it's Carly. That was an uncalled=-for responce to you if I do say so myself. Please accept my deepest appologies for it. It came from things I have recently learned about how, systematically, this military terrorizes the world. It ain't right. My little brother, in fact, too, was in the Army but died after flipping his hum-V in Iraq. What a bitch I was, eh? Please, I would like, if you aren't too mad at me to talk about it if you'll have me? for today, Car 408-209-3239 Message-ID: From jhud7789 at outlook.com Mon Aug 25 23:32:31 2014 From: jhud7789 at outlook.com (Joeph Hudson) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:32:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Ryan, it's Carly. That was an uncalled=-for responce to you if I do say so myself. Please accept my deepest appologies for it. It came from things I have recently learned about how, systematically, this military terrorizes the world. It ain't right. My little brother, in fact, too, was in the Army but died after flipping his hum-V in Iraq. What a bitch I was, eh? Please, I would like, if you aren't too mad at me to talk about it if you'll have me? for today, Car 408-209-3239 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Carly, you're her response to Ryan went to the entire list. So you might want to reply off list Ryan. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2014, at 6:17 PM, "Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l" wrote: > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon Aug 25 23:58:47 2014 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:58:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity In-Reply-To: <29DD0796C98D4AF19C45DCEB438A3A56@OwnerPC> References: <1793573D-4D2E-45B6-8BBE-9CA6B1354D4C@gmail.com> <5E001320-B020-4FF9-9D7B-F1DCAE737415@jd16.law.harvard.edu> <29DD0796C98D4AF19C45DCEB438A3A56@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I'm not convinced that sighted persons have the advantage in reading the written word because of their ability to skim. To the best of my ability, I will try to explain why. Skimming is a sensually the ability to glance over a page and get the general jist of it without having to read every word. Skimming is also the ability to quickly look for the information you're searching for. Just like us, sighted people need something that jumps out at them in order to help make the search go more quickly. That's why text books and websites use larger and bolder texts. Color can also make text stand out better. While it's true that a sighted person can get more of a page with in their field of view then we can, that doesn't necessarily mean that the nervous system is able to process all of that data fast enough to be useful. They still have to jump from heading to heading visually just like we do. Their ability to skim partially depends upon the quickness at which they can recognize symbols. This is true for braille meters as well. Same for people using text to speech. For some people, it takes a moment to recognize symbols and their context. For others, it's rather quick. There is a lot of variability among sighted persons just like us. Then, there is the issue of skimming intelligence. Skimming takes a certain degree of skill. For one thing, you have to know is sensually what you're looking for and have the pattern of the thing stowed in your mind priming your nervous system to recognize it. If you don't know what you're looking for, that task is made much more difficult regardless of what medium you are using to read. Text book writers and website developers already know this. That's why they make headings, subheadings, and the like. Ask a sighted person to skim a chapter book with no such headings and they will find it as difficult as we sometimes do. We are finally getting an equivalent with screen reader headings and navigation levels in digital material. For those of us who have read braille long enough to get these skills, we learn the tricks of the trade that make our searches much easier. For example, I scan an entire page with my whole hand to get a sense of its layout. When I feel breaks in the text, that's when I start looking for specific text. Again, I know generally what I'm looking for. So my nervous system is primed to find it. It also helps to know something about contents is and indexes. Excellent searchers, be they blind or cited, already have the skills in place. As a screen reader user, I find it useful to know all of the various hot keys in the program I use. I have also become good friends with the find command. I often discover that I can find things faster than my cited peers who are presumably skimming. To tell you the truth, I think this issue of skimming is a myth that has been developed to explain the greater myth that braille and text to speech are less efficient than print. To this issue of work speed. I have personally found that I can work as efficiently as sighted people and most tasks, more efficiently in some tasks, and less efficiently in other tasks. I find this to be true of my sided colleagues as well. I think it comes down to knowing what tools you have and how to use them. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2014, at 11:51 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: > > Arielle, > Right. I agree. We are definitely generalizing here. > Sighted people certainly do not perform all at the same speed. > I think my point is I do perform some tasks faster than other sighted people while some tasks are slower. > > Its an argument that never can be won. However, I still maintain my strong point that many computer tasks are slower because we cannot skim the screen. You all mention navigation keys for screen readers and windows. Well, I've been in many situations where that does not work. This only works if the web designer has it marked well with html codes like headings and lists. > In this case, use the letter h for heading or l for next > list. > > I also have found most databases have some accessibility issues; same with > other academic journals, encyclopedias and magazines. > Rahul, > you mentioned needing > footnotes. Although, I do not have the command offhand, > there is a jaws command for footnotes and endnotes. If you need it, I can probably find that. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:53 PM > To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity > > Hi all, > > I always thought it was a little silly to talk about whether blind > people work slower or faster than sighted people. The truth is that I > don't time myself nor do I time my colleagues. And, any such argument > assumes that all sighted people work at some uniform speed--which is > not true. I might work slower on the Internet than a Web-savvy sighted > person, but I can probably work faster than a sighted person with no > computer traning. I can almost definitely write a research report > faster than a sighted 18-year-old who's neverwritten an APA-style > research report before. And finally, speed isn't the only metric of > success. Accuracy and thoroughness are equally important. I may not be > able to skim a textbook easily, but by reading every sentence of a > chapter, I am probably studying the information more deeply than > somebody who quickly skims. > Instead of trying to work as fast as some idealized sighted person, I > think it's more important to focus on meeting the demands of a job and > performing as well as possible. Some job tasks require adherence to > deadlines, in which case efficiency does matter. But then the goal > should be to adhere to the deadline, not to race an idealized sighted > employee to the finish. > > Arielle > >> On 8/24/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: >> Rahul, >> Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. >> unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. use a reader >> >> for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to >> help. >> >> Go to page: control shiftN >> Next page: right arrow >> Prior page: left arrow. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM >> To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity >> >> Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure >> most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely >> helpful. >> I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to >> Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: >> Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology >> is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific >> features such as >> reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding >> text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT >> presentations with >> graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm >> which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. >> Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for >> reading long 50-100 page documents. >> >> Cheers, >> Rahul >> >> >> >> >>> On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: >>> Hi Rahul, >>> >>> I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would >>> you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great >>> solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 >>> points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. >>> I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy >>> material. >>> >>> Cindy >>> >>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: >>>> Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an >>>> attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML >>>> version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi Rahul, >>>>> Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may >>>>> have >>>>> more. >>>>> 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program >>>>> and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed >>>>> should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so >>>>> fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. >>>>> 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work >>>>> on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still >>>>> do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's >>>>> efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is >>>>> nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. >>>>> 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use >>>>> control-shift-apostrophe. >>>>> 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a >>>>> different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word >>>>> instead of in PDF format. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck and congrats on the internship! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >>>>>> Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are >>>>>> three >>>>>> things I'd keep in mind. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting >>>>>> things >>>>>> done quickly. >>>>>> 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so >>>>>> does >>>>>> using assistive tech. >>>>>> 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to >>>>>> do >>>>>> the >>>>>> best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do >>>>>> better. >>>>>> I >>>>>> work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work >>>>>> slower/less >>>>>> hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement >>>>>> and >>>>>> a >>>>>> good attitude. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best >>>>>> Derek >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I often find it hard to maintain the same level of productivity as my >>>>>>> sighted colleagues. I guess this can primarily be attributed to the >>>>>>> fact >>>>>>> that I have so far been merely a casual user of assistive technology >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> is perhaps why I am not able to use it as expeditiously as I should >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> able to in a professional setting. >>>>>>> That being said, my uniform experience has taught me that jaws is >>>>>>> often >>>>>>> unresponsive and unreliable. This makes it virtually impossible to >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> with the same level of efficiency as a sighted person. >>>>>>> Most blind students get double the time that their sighted >>>>>>> counterparts >>>>>>> get for writing exams. However, this is not really a feasible option >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the private sector where you are not only required to do your work >>>>>>> well >>>>>>> but are also expected to complete your tasks expeditiously. >>>>>>> My inability to meet the latter requirement has often been a source >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> frustration for me during my internships. My employers have never >>>>>>> raised >>>>>>> any objections about my inability to complete the same amount of work >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> my sighted counterparts within a given time period. I guess this is >>>>>>> reflective of the low expectations that society has from blind >>>>>>> people. >>>>>>> Be that as it may, this has greatly reduced my job satisfaction and >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> been a major cause of concern. >>>>>>> I'd like to know what you guys think about this. Has anyone here had >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> similar experience? >>>>>>> What strategies would you recommend for effectively grappling with >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> challenge? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cindy Bennett >>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National >>> Federation of the Blind of Washington >>> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind >>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From kmaent1 at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 00:49:03 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:49:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille note apex user guide Message-ID: <53fbd99c.0275320a.4de8.4fab@mx.google.com> Hi Gloria, The manual on the QT can be reached by pressing function with U. That brings you up to the choice of index and table of contents. If you're familiar with the BT, you probably just need to pick out the command summary appendix from the table of contents and go through it because most everything is done the same as the BT but with different keystrokes. For reading the manual (or anything really) I would suggest using the context sensitive help, which is very good and can be navigated with thumbkeys. To access help press the help key, which is the second key from the left on the bottom row of the keyboard. Best, Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: Gloria G via nabs-l ,"National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" , National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Hi all, I hope everyone is doing well. I'm purchasing a brown note apex from a friend of mine with a Quarty keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone had an electronic version of the user guide? I know this is something that can be found in a brown oh itself but just want to electronic copy. If anyone has one that to email me or direct me to where I could find one that would be great. Thank you so much Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma il.com From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 00:51:26 2014 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:51:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Statistical/data analysis software In-Reply-To: References: <29E6B69C-9EC6-4347-9124-98BC082E99A2@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Hi Kirt, I second Arielle's comments about checking out free alternatives to SpSS. I also wanted to mention that I have been using SPSS on a regular basis for the past six years and found it mostly accessible with several work-arounds, so if you do end up using the software on a shared workstation with JAWS and have questions about its accessibility features, I would be happy to help. Good luck! Best, Katie On 8/25/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: > Hi Kirt, > > I have not used SPSS in about 7 years, but I believe it is mostly > accessible. I use a competing program, SAS, for my data analysis in a > professional research setting, and think it is slightly more > accessible than SPSS. However, the bigger concern is that SPSS (or > SAS) private licenses cost money, and most students use SPSS on shared > computers. So it probably makes sense for you to use SPSS only if the > shared computer in your class building is outfitted with JAWS. I don't > believe SPSS is accessible yet on the Mac and I don't know how well it > plays with WindowEyes or NVDA. > For this reason, I usually advise undergrad students to use either > Excel or the free web-based calculator at > www.graphpad.com/quickcalcs > for your data analysis needs, if your professor allows. Depending on > the extent to which SPSS is used in the course, you could also work > with another student if the shared workstation is not outfitted with > JAWS. > There is also R, a free program, that some blind people have used > successfully, though R is harder to learn than either Excel or > Graphpad. > > If you get a list of the statistical functions you will be expected to > do and want to share that with me off-list, I can advise on whether > Excel and GraphPad will be sufficient. > > Best of luck! > Arielle > > On 8/25/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: >> I found excel to be accessible and able to do most things you'd need to >> do. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Kirt Manwaring via nabs-l >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Nabsters, >>> This semester I will be taking a political analysis course relying >>> heavily on data analysis. Our class will be using a program called >>> SPSS to organize and analyze sets of data. My question, for those of >>> you who have taken statistics or other quantative analysis courses, >>> how accessible is SSPS? If this program will not work, is there an >>> accessible alternative I will be able to use? Is there any more >>> general advice I should be aware of in regards to statistical analysis >>> with screen readers? Any help you could give me would be very much >>> appreciated. >>> Best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From kmaent1 at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 00:56:54 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:56:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity Message-ID: <53fbdb75.e488320a.7755.4f9a@mx.google.com> Hi Jedi, I definitely agree that if you know what you're looking for a blind person using a digital book and the find command will find it much quicker than a sited person with a print book. I also find that I read faster with my text to speech set to maximum than sited people do when I'm trying to absorb the entire content of what I'm reading. I do think that sited people have an advantage, though, when it comes to quickly getting the gist of an article or chapter. Authors and publishers design with sited people in mind, so important words are bolded or otherwise stand out, which means that the sited person glancing at a page gets the general idea of what is going on without actually reading it. Of course this depends on the genre of the work in question. Like you say, blind people can do some things faster than sited people and vice versa. Best, Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: Jedi Moerke via nabs-l wrote: Arielle, Right. I agree. We are definitely generalizing here. Sighted people certainly do not perform all at the same speed. I think my point is I do perform some tasks faster than other sighted people while some tasks are slower. Its an argument that never can be won. However, I still maintain my strong point that many computer tasks are slower because we cannot skim the screen. You all mention navigation keys for screen readers and windows. Well, I've been in many situations where that does not work. This only works if the web designer has it marked well with html codes like headings and lists. In this case, use the letter h for heading or l for next list. I also have found most databases have some accessibility issues; same with other academic journals, encyclopedias and magazines. Rahul, you mentioned needing footnotes. Although, I do not have the command offhand, there is a jaws command for footnotes and endnotes. If you need it, I can probably find that. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:53 PM To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity Hi all, I always thought it was a little silly to talk about whether blind people work slower or faster than sighted people. The truth is that I don't time myself nor do I time my colleagues. And, any such argument assumes that all sighted people work at some uniform speed--which is not true. I might work slower on the Internet than a Web-savvy sighted person, but I can probably work faster than a sighted person with no computer traning. I can almost definitely write a research report faster than a sighted 18-year-old who's neverwritten an APA-style research report before. And finally, speed isn't the only metric of success. Accuracy and thoroughness are equally important. I may not be able to skim a textbook easily, but by reading every sentence of a chapter, I am probably studying the information more deeply than somebody who quickly skims. Instead of trying to work as fast as some idealized sighted person, I think it's more important to focus on meeting the demands of a job and performing as well as possible. Some job tasks require adherence to deadlines, in which case efficiency does matter. But then the goal should be to adhere to the deadline, not to race an idealized sighted employee to the finish. Arielle On 8/24/14, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l wrote: Rahul, Ah, I understand now with specifics. I have issues with powerpoint. unfortunately, there is just more steps for us in that program. use a reader for the graphics if possible. For pdf files here are a few commands to help. Go to page: control shiftN Next page: right arrow Prior page: left arrow. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:55 PM To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Efficiency and Productivity Thanks for the suggestions and the encouragement, everyone. I am sure most of the suggestions that you guys have given will be immensely helpful. I'm pasting below the text of the mail that I sent in response to Arielle's query which, unfortunately, only went to her: Arielle, I am using JAWS 15 on a Windows 7 machine, so the technology is fairly up to date. Some problems are with regard to specific features such as reading comments, footnotes and using track changes in Word; finding text and reading comments in PDF documents; preparing long PPT presentations with graphs and charts; using the internal applications designed by my firm which are almost always partly inaccessible, etc. Even otherwise, I take a lot more time than my sighted colleagues for reading long 50-100 page documents. Cheers, Rahul On 23/08/2014, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l wrote: Hi Rahul, I think your list of challenges may have just gone to Arielle. Would you mind sending them to the list? I think she gave some great solutions though. As for speed of JAWS, I gradually increased mine 5 points and then waited a couple of weeks and then increased it again. I do slow it down 10 points when I am reading textbooks or other heavy material. Cindy On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l wrote: Also, if you use Gmail, you can send a PDF to yourself as an attachment, then click "view attachment as HTML". You'll get an HTML version that is very easy to navigate with JAWS. Arielle On 8/22/14, Arielle Silverman wrote: Hi Rahul, Thanks for clarifying. I have a few quick suggestions and others may have more. 1. Try increasing the speech rate of JAWS by opening the JAWS program and pressing Alt to get into the basic menus. Increasing the speed should make reading line by line go faster. You don't want it to be so fast that you can't understand, but just try increasing by 5 or 10%. 2. I suggest partnering with a sighted colleague, if possible, to work on the PowerPoint charts and any inaccessible software. You can still do the majority of the thinking, but just utilize the sighted person's efficiency with the mouse-clicking in those situations. There is nothing wrong with using a reader, hired or otherwise. 3. To quickly read Track Changes comments, use control-shift-apostrophe. 4. Sometimes it's necessary to ask your employer if you can use a different program to do the work; for example reading a file in Word instead of in PDF format. Good luck and congrats on the internship! Arielle On 8/22/14, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote: Hello, I can definitely understand how you feel. I think there are three things I'd keep in mind. 1. Any new job takes time to get in a rhythm where you are getting things done quickly. 2. Practice makes perfect, just as any job takes time to learn, so does using assistive tech. 3. It's perfectly fine work at your own pace. Your goal should be to do the best you can under the circumstances and just look for ways to do better. I work faster/hard than some of my sighted colleagues and I work slower/less hard than others. The main thing employers want to see is improvement and a good attitude. Best Derek Sent from my iPhone On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rahul Bajaj via nabs-l Press the W key for keyord, then O for open a document. When it says list of folders, press M and you should see a folder called manual. ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Dierckens via nabs-l ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Hi, I am purchasing this braille note from a friend and she has misplaced the disk with the user guide. I looked on the humanware site, and there is a user guide for the apex but it is a bit confusing to read. I am use to using the braille note with a braille keybord, but this braille note has a qt keybord, and I know there are some things I am going to have to get use to with this particular keybord. Can anyone give me any assistance? I am going to pick the braille note up from her tonight. Thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist via nabs-l" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" , National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Hi all, I hope everyone is doing well. I'm purchasing a brown note apex from a friend of mine with a Quarty keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone had an electronic version of the user guide? I know this is something that can be found in a brown oh itself but just want to electronic copy. If anyone has one that to email me or direct me to where I could find one that would be great. Thank you so much Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.diercken s%40me.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From kmaent1 at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 01:04:49 2014 From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 21:04:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance Message-ID: <53fbdd4f.046c320a.582f.530f@mx.google.com> Yes publisher files often have issues like that as much from the OCR software we need to use them as anything else. I couldn't live without word search though not to mention being able to stop on a word I don't know and find out how it's spelled. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l ,"National Association of Blind Students mailing list" wrote: Hi, I think that a lot of great suggestions have been given thus far. I remember going through a time where the whole idea of research and finding references from reputable sources was incredibly aloof to me. Even still, one of the things I do when pondering research ideas is to talk to other people, especially those specializing in your topic. If there is a professor with a specialty in your topic, go to their office hours even if they aren't your professor. Maybe there is a grad student who can help you. Several departments feature the department's labs or concentrations and some even list the students in each. One thing that hasn't been brought up yet is taking advantage of your professor's office hours. I have often found this to be helpful. Often, they will talk about my ideas with me. What do I want to write the paper about. If the assignment includes an experiment that I have to run, how do I learn about a topic that I want to expound upon in my own research? Often, they will start searches with you and may even send you links to papers they find helpful. I do believe that reading an abstract should give you a pretty good idea of whether reading the paper is a good use of your time. This does take a bit of practice. I think that if you are unable to understand an abstract, try to Wikipedia some of the terms surrounding your topic. Then, if you can't understand abstracts, they probably aren't relevant to your topic or worth your time. I actually really like Google scholar, and many of the articles brought up are located in databases that my school subscribes to. I found it accessible just as Google searches are accessible. I have not tried out this service, but have heard of Mendeley which is a free paper and reference management system. If you use Chrome, you can sed papers right to Mendeley if you search them on Scholar. I recommend that if you are doong research for your field to start your own folders of helpful papers on your computer. I also recommend looking at other papers' references. You can even look at the references on Wikipedia. If you find one helpful paper, chances are that references to other helpful resources are right there in the article. Further, if you are researching a topic that is covered somewhere in your textbook, looking at the references in the chapter can be good, especially if they are referencing a study they are using as an example. Cindy On 8/25/14, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l wrote: That index problem is one of the many reasons I always use publisher files or scanned books not audio. Another place you could go, at least in the humanities where a lot of scholarly work is published in books not journal articles, is bookshare. They actually have a very good selection of academic books these days often including edited collections of relevant articles. If your looking at websites, what you really want are pages with .edu domains--they typically are written by professors specializing in the area of the content. Also for statistical information there are many (usually relatively accessible) government websites--.gov domains. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l ,"National Association of Blind Students mailing list" wrote: Oops, How did that not go to the list? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez via nabs-l Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:56 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: research techniques and assistance I think Justin meant to send this to the whole list ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: justin williams