[nabs-l] NABS List Manners
Carly Mihalakis
carlymih at comcast.net
Sat Aug 16 16:07:50 UTC 2014
Good morning, It is NEVER the role, in my opinion, of the moderators
to police people's dialogue. Just deal with what you perceive as
a threat on your own via the delete key that is, unless you enjoy
the attention?
Car
Hello:
>I think this thread has gone on way to long. Firstly, the guy asked her
>bra size off list and she replied on list. Maybe it was not appropriate,
>but welcome to the internets in 2014. Just delete what you don't want.
>
>Second, you're talking about these emails for social networks like it's
>a huge issue. Maybe there are a few guys out there friending any girl
>with an email address, but usually what happens is they reply, then they
>say "here Facebook have my address book" and bam, everyone gets
>invitations. whether or not the person ment to send them.
>
>I don't know that holding confirence calls really is the way to go, just
>send out rule reminders every month and if there's a problem, just send
>it off to the admins to deal with as they see fit. Confirence calls,
>classes, talks, required agreements and the like are just going to be
>ignored by those who don't care and acknowledged for those who already
>acknowledge them. Forcing someone to say "I agree" to the rules is just
>forcing them to go through another step to register and they can still
>say "hey, I didn't read those rules." This also ends up taking a bit of
>extra work to embed in mailman, as I don't think it has this option. You
>do have the option of sending out monthly emails or welcome letters, at
>which point you could include rules, then failure to follow them can be
>the same results as not following the rules you have to click a button
>to agree, whatever that may be.
>
>I think this is getting blown out of perportion. There are spats on and
>off list, but if you really have a problem with someone just block them
>or hit delete on their messages.
>On 8/16/2014 12:10 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l wrote:
>It would also be great if somehow, we could address the issue of
>people taking advantage of the fact that other list members can't
>necessarily be anonymous and hide their emails to avoid unwanted
>attention off-list. I know policing such matters is impractical, but
>it is also kind of weird to have NABS members who I don't know
>practically stalking me because they want me to follow them back on
>Twitter, want to be a friend on facebook, want to be a connection or
>in my circle on Linked In or Google Plus, etc, plus send random emails
>to my address asking sometimes really odd questions. I think people
>would be less likely to jump the gun when inappropriate behavior
>happens on list and more apt to handle it appropriately if things like
>this didn't happen, as I know they happen to a fair number of people
>on the list. Would it be too much to put a guideline in which says
>something about how permission should be gained before sending a
>messages of a personal nature off list, or please don't friend someone
>on other social media outlets unless there is a mutual desire to be
>friends? Or, perhaps in addition to internet etiquette guidelines,
>there be some basic social guidelines in case some of this behavior is
>due to a lack of social supports outside of the internet, and the
>person for whatever reasons needs a bit of guidance in how to properly
>correspond with others so as not to come off overbearing.
>
>The bigger question is, how could this realistically be done without
>severely limiting intellectual conversation. Over the last few years
>I've gotten some very nice emails from people who wanted to respond to
>something I said privately, to give an honest opinion that they were
>too shy to put on the list for the very reason that they thought they
>would meet resistance or disapproval, or people who noticed things
>like my major and were curious for information. I wouldn't want to
>stifle any of these things and have actually made some good friends
>through some of these conversations which happened thanks to the NABS
>list, but it is a little weird, annoying, and a bit creepy, when some
>random guy won't stop sending me reminders to add him on different
>social media outlets, especially when they're ones I don't check or
>didn't really care to learn how to use after deciding I really didn't
>need the account, and they won't get the hint that I'm either not
>checking my account, am only still receiving their invitations because
>I haven't figured out how to block them on a site I never use, or am
>not interested in adding a stranger to see my personal information. I
>think that is a huge problem we have with the list, and especially
>puts a lot of the girls on here into a tricky spot because since this
>is all electronic, to engage by telling the person to leave you alone
>gives them what they want. I used the delete key a lot for dealing
>with these kinds of messages, but found with some the emails just keep
>coming even after 2 years of membership on the list.
>
>On 8/15/14, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>I like Jedi's idea of having a conference call on internet etiquette,
>but my concern is that only those who abide by the rules already will
>care to show up. It could be very effective, but my gut just tells me
>that it would be like preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, calling
>individuals out who have consistently demonstrated some of the
>negative or disrespectful behaviors we've mentioned on this thread is
>probably not the way to go either, unless done so by list moderators
>like Mary and Dave.
>
>I still think policing is the best way to go about this, but it would
>be up to the moderators, and could be a huge undertaking. I like the
>idea of having the rules set up on a screen after subscribers complete
>the initial form, and am a huge fan of using I agree or I don't Agree
>buttons to finish the subscription process if it is feasible. I think
>that would make it much harder for people to just say they were
>ignorant of the rules because they never cared to look for them.
>Sure, people will skim through it and not read, but at least we can
>say that they broke the rules at their own disgression and had an
>equal opportunity to read them. Granted, I'm of the opinion that when
>you join a list it's your responsibility to use common etiquette
>and/or educate yourself on the rules and therefore we're already all
>equal here anyway, but obviously not everyone on the list operates
>that way and that's why we're having this problem to begin with.
>
>Arielle gave some great advice about when to just let a thread go and
>to not respond, and I echo some of Antonio's sentiments about deleting
>a lot of what doesn't interest you. Some of the personal promotion
>stuff is annoying, but not harmful, and while I don't necessarily read
>what the promos say, I respect what the person making them is doing
>and their right to do it on a forum such as NABS. After all, if
>you're doing something geared toward blind teens and young adults,
>it's logical to use NABS as a sounding board to gather interested
>parties.
>
>There's a great quote from Thumper, the bunny in Bambi, which I
>believe goes something like, "If you don't got nothing nice to say,
>don't say it." I think most of the list members do well and abide by
>this, but the people who provide the put-downs, consistently respond
>negatively to other's comments, and who send inappropriate emails on
>list (and off by getting member emails and emailing to continue the
>inappropriate behaviors they start for all to see), are mostly repeat
>offenders who have left clear patterns of behavior behind in their
>emails. I'm not saying we should jump the gun and kick those people
>off, but we definitely know where to start and who to keep an eye on
>for these problems based on the past, if only we had a method for
>doing so.
>
>On 8/15/14, Sami Osborne via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I agree with everything that's been said so far.
>
>I think that the guidelines should maybe be posted here more
>often, maybe not once every month but more than maybe once every
>6 months. The reason I'm saying this is because since I've
>registered to this list, the guidelines have only been posted
>once. I think this would be a great way for everybody to be
>aware of the rules and think about what they've done if they have
>caused trouble on here.
>Also, another suggestion is that when people register, after they
>submit their email address, name and password, why couldn't the
>guidelines be displayed, with buttons or links for the person
>would have to click on to agree or disagree? Note: if they
>accidentally click "disagree," then they could be given a second
>chance to click "agree," and if for the second time they click on
>"agree," then their subscription will not be taken.
>
>About discussing opinions: I think that these kinds of
>discussions are fine as long as people are not personally
>insulting or attacking each other. In my opinion, if there is a
>discussion going on where two people have differing opinions and
>talk about their views, if it gets to the point where it starts
>to get bad, these people should stop discussing their opinions.
>
>These are just my thoughts.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Sami.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>To: Antonio Guimaraes <freethaught at gmail.com>,National
>Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:32:02 -0700
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS List Manners
>
>I agree with greater enforcement. I also think it would be nice
>if
>folks didn't respond to inappropriate messages on list. A single
>off-topic or obnoxious message often goes unnoticed but a huge
>thread
>of replies clutters inboxes and annoys people, plus rewarding
>someone
>who might be making an obnoxious post to glean attention. If a
>post
>bothers you, I suggest quietly emailing Mary and Dave Andrews so
>they
>can handle the offense and then quietly letting it go. If you
>aren't
>sure whether a message you see is inappropriate, ask the
>moderators
>privately. These are just my suggestions.
>Arielle
>
>On 8/14/14, Antonio Guimaraes via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>wrote:
> Mary and all,
>
> This is not the first time list etiquette and civility has been
>brought up.
>
> People would think twice, or otherwise no longer have the
>opportunity to be
> inappropriate on list if there was enforcement of guidelines
>which suspended
> or banned people from list for violations.
>
> I have been threatened once for one spam sent to NFBNet lists,
>and I never
> did it again. The specifics do not concern the NABS list and
>are not
> relevant to the discussion at this time, but you bet I could
>have been
> banned by moderators, and as stated above, would no longer have
>the chance
> to polite the list in whatever way deemed inappropriate by the
>moderators.
>
> Some off topic messages to NABS irk me, but are infrequent
>enough that they
> don't bother me. I don't complain, hit delete ad move on.
>
> One much example are the periodic announcements from David about
>internet
> radio. It takes me a few seconds to see the topic and decide
>the
> announcement does not interest me. I delete, and move on with
>no stress. I'm
> sure David's programs are interesting to some, and I accept a
>member's
> self-promotion as a part of the supportive NABS community.
>
> I am not as tolerant of messages with personal information about
>others, or
> messages filled with self-disclosure on very personal and
>sensitive topics.
>
> We would be a better list if we were expected to act civilly,
>stay on topic,
> and so on, and be wormed, and disciplined when we do not.
>
> Antonio
>
> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Mary Fernandez via nabs-l
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> wrote:
>
> Good evening all,
> I hope everyone's weekend was very enjoyable.
> I am writing because I am deeply concerned about the manners, or
>lack
> thereof, which are more and more frequently being displayed on
>the
> list serv. I'll quickly remind you that the list is supposed to
>be a
> resource for blind students, of all ages, young professionals,
>parents
> and teachers. The list is "public" and "archivable", which
>means that
> anything we write on here is easily brought up when someone,
>anyone,
> conducts a Google search.
> When someone inquires about software, or help with anything,
>which
> relates to blindness, or has a question and asks that you
>contact them
> off line, it does not mean that you can be disrespectful to that
> person. The list is NOT here for insults to be thrown back and
>forth,
> for inappropriate comments, or for general disrespect towards
>others.
> So, here is my question, how can we improve communication among
>list
> members? Does this list still have value, and if so what are the
> values and how to we maintain them? Let's have a discussion
>about
> issues and solutions. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but
>I'm
> truly concerned about the tone of the messages on here, and the
> frequency with which they have been occurring. Please, be
>polite and
> respectful when responding to this message, and if you have
>strong
> feelings you do not wish to make public, simply click on my
>email
> address: trillian551 at gmail.com and reply to me directly.
>
> Thank you,
> Sincerely,
> Your list moderator,
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made
>them
> feel."
> --
> Maya Angelou
>
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>
>--
>Kaiti
>
>
>
>
>--
>Take care,
>Ty
>http://tds-solutions.net
>He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool;
>he that dares not reason is a slave.
>
>
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