[nabs-l] question about independence

Tue Mar 4 05:30:32 UTC 2014

You did all that with siri? 
Wow

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Moerke
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 12:26 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about independence

Greetings.

Let me apologize in advance for any errors as I used Siri to produce this
message.

I have been hesitant to comment on this thread because it is so complicated.

I think someone's level of actual independence has to be assessed based on
behavioral patterns rather than incidences. If we are just talking about
blindness skills, there is a big difference between somebody who
occasionally takes a human guide or someone who takes one intermittently or
situationally versus someone who takes one on such a regular basis that they
do not ever move on their own volition. That can be said for any task of
independence. If an individual hardly ever does something on their own, it
might be rightfully presumed that such an individual may need further
training.

If we are talking about personal choice, it can be said that a person is
independent to the extent that their personal choices stick. Also, Dr.
Jernigan adds that independence is also a function of how much inconvenience
is involved for the self and others. Sometimes, it is more convenient to do
something on one's own. Sometimes, it is more convenient to get help.
Sometimes, helping another person is convenient for someone. Sometimes not.
These things have to be negotiated on a case-by-case basis.

Then, there's the issue of identity. As a community, people with
disabilities tend to prefer that the outside population sees us as
autonomous. We also want to see ourselves as autonomous. Whether you take a
human guide  most of the time or choose to walk on your own, this thread
seems to bind all of us. I think personal choice is wrapped up in this
concept of autonomy.

Here is an issue often overlooked by the disability community even though it
is often of central focus. Boundaries. I have been around a while and have
noticed that people tend to be most upset by potential helpers when some
helper violates a boundary. For instance, when a sighted person insists that
a blind person needs help, when a sighted person grabs a blind person, when
a sighted person tells a blind person something the blind person already
knows, etc. I think most people would find themselves equally annoyed or
they in our place. In fact, they often do. How many of your cited friends
are annoyed by backseat drivers? How many sided people are annoyed and
frustrated by overbearing parents? The reason why these things are so
annoying is because they interfere with a sense of autonomy and personal
choice. Also, people do not like to be messed with when they already have a
skill required to perform a task. Does any of this sound familiar? It should
be. But for those of us with disabilities, the problem is compounded by low
expectations of what we can do. These expectations are both internal and
external.

Negotiating the topic of independence is tricky. I think this is the case
for most anybody with a disability no matter what type. On one hand, we want
to honor the fact that we are capable people with a life experience as rich
and meaningful as someone else. We believe that we can contribute to society
and we want the opportunity to do it on our own terms. At the same time, we
want to honor other people's goodwill. We don't want to be seen as a people
with a chip on their shoulder. In my opinion, this is a very difficult
situation to be in. We are all human and we will never get it right all the
time. To expect otherwise is ridiculous.

I'll tell you what I tell my students about the concept of independence as
it relates to all the topics discussed above.

Independence is your ability to make choices and to have those choices
stick. The most independent of us have a variety of options for ways to do
something. Every situation is different and every situation will dictate the
manner in which something should be done. Sometimes, it is best to get help.
Sometimes, it is best to do something on your own. You have to be equally
prepared to do either. If you are not, then it can be said that your choice
making ability is limited. If you find yourself limited, then it is worth
your while to learn a set of skills for using help effectively and working
on your own.

If you find that help is required, the best way to negotiate the situation
is to view the other person as an extension of yourself. In other words, you
need to be in control of what help you receive as only you will know how
someone else's help will best accommodate your needs. This technique also
ensures that you are not defined by the help you need, but are defined in
instead by the contributions you make with and without assistance. It is
important to remember though, that the people who help you are human beings.
I find that whatever you can do to break the ice helps to alleviate
discomfort and can reduce the amount of awkward between you and the person
who helps you. This eliminates all kinds of problems including boundary
crossing. When I get help, I make sure to be the one who initiates the
interaction. I introduce myself, smile, and make pleasant conversation that
has nothing to do with my blindness and the help I need. If at all possible,
I try to focus on the individual who helps me or uncommon topics we can both
discuss. If there is any information that I can provide that would make
there helping me easier, I provided freely. For instants, if I know where a
product is generally located in a grocery store or on the shelf, I will
provide that information to make my helpers search easier. If there is
something that I can get for myself well my helper grabs something else, I
will if it means making the experience faster. A lot of folks who have
helped me say that they learn from me about where we are and what we are
doing that makes their job better in the long run. I feel that that's a
pretty even trade for the help they give me.

If you prefer to work on your own, that's okay too. Dealing with unwanted
assistance can be tricky and none of us get it right all of the time. I
think we tend to believe that an interaction with one of us will set the
tone for how a sighted person feels about all of us. I have learned to do
away with this notion as I find it puts more pressure on me then is helpful
and necessary. I also find that believe myself to be an ambassador for the
blind creates an invisible audience. Communication research tells us that
people tend to respond more negatively to face threats when there is and
audience. Face threat is any action that causes someone to feel like their
sense of identity is being threatened. In this case, autonomy is in
question. Remember that autonomy is not whether or not someone gets help,
but whether or not somebody is able to make a choice between getting help or
not getting it. No matter how we handle the situation, the reality is that
sometimes, we can only do our best and except it. And sometimes, our best
may not be a shining example of what could be possible for all kinds of
reasons that have nothing to do with blindness.

Just as we need to get rid of the notion that independence means let's roll
and dependence all of the time, we also must do away with the notion that
the individual who refuses help has a chip on their shoulder.

And one more thing, it's important to recognize that, though the Federation
has a philosophy of independence, we all express that philosophy
differently. That said, I would be particularly careful about stereotyping
all Federation us as dogmatic in their approach to independence. I have
found this to be less so than not.

Respectfully,
Jedi

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 3, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, Antonio,
> 
>        I'm glad you shed that chip from your shoulder, too! In my
experience, sighted people are most impressed by what they see and  not so
much by what someone is lecturing them about regarding their particular
special interest. So, I tend toward yes, accepting more help from sighted
people than probably do you and your Federationist peers.
> Also, Antonio, in the end, someone's actual means of achieving don't
matter to l' Sighty. I feel the Federation loses sight of this, as well. Ol'
Sighty cares not how we do something. All that tends to matter to them is
that we do it. If you have a sighted person help you, then so be it It
doesn't matter, in the end.
>   It's okay for me, though. I am a people person, finding it much more
fulfilling to interact with people than try proving some usually abstract
point about what blind people are able or unable to do. In this way, blind
person can just recruit a shoulder (I walk sighted guide simply by grabbing
a shoulder. This way, you glide seamlessly over that awkward moment in which
ol' Sighty and you try to figure out who is supposed to grab who's arm.) I
appreciate how you said people need to travel in whichever way works best
for them. It is not only about blinks. There are others inhabiting this
earth, with their own special interests and philosophies. I feel like those
wrapped up in Federationism lose sight of this reality.
> loving, for today, Car08:58 AM 3/3/2014, you wrote:
>> Our opinion matters a great deal, since we are a Community that talks
about independence as a core of our philosophy.
>> 
>> What I think about another's approach to independence, and how they deal
with the public will very likely determine how we interact, how close
friends we are, and how highly we might regard that person in our social
groups.
>> This is an interesting question that bears no right answer. We may choose
to refuse help in such a way that puts people off. That is okay at times if
that is how we feel at the time, as Arielle said. If I feel like taking
someone's arm to deal with navigating through tight quarters, that is my own
call to me. Instead, if I feel like dealing with the same environment on my
own, independently if you will, someone will have a perception of that.
>> 
>> As a matter of fact, someone will have a perception of everyone know
matter what they do. If one day I want to deal with airports on my own, and
another day I choose to accept more assistance, there is nothing wrong with
my approach on either day.
>> 
>> If sometimes a stranger grabs me by the jacket to guide me down the
stairs, you bet I will do something about it. I don't want to lose my
footing, and tumble down because this person is dragging me over. I may not
want help, need help, and so I will refuse it, turn it down, and will do so
very firmly.
>> 
>> If someone offers me to guide me by the cane, yes by the king, pulling it
I had of me, I may turn this scenario into a great opportunity to educate
someone about proper techniques of sighted guide.
>> 
>> Most likely I will ask to follow the person by the elbow not because they
need to learn something, but because I need to get somewhere, and quick.
>> Most times I will be put off, and endangered by losing control of how I
interact during travel, and keep myself safe.
>> 
>> But there have been a handful of times when I was cool with traveling a
short distance guided by the cane direction.
>> 
>> If there are no steps to worry about, and I am not worried about safety,
I will be guided by Cain.
>> 
>> Mostly when this happened, there work some cultural differences between
me, and the guy.
>> 
>> Consider the Muslim woman who could not have contact with males. She
offered to help me, and explained her situation. She guided me by Cain, and
I got to where I was just fine. And she wasn't in any spiritual trouble from
that.
>> 
>> We are always being observed by the public. How we behave matters. How we
feel very safe from time to time, they today, situation to situation. It
changes with time also.
>> 
>> But even if you have a day when everyone is doing what you think is the
right way to interact with the blind, you could be annoyed with something or
another.
>> 
>> I remember one day traveling in the city, and being asked over, and over,
and over by different people at different places at different times if I
needed help getting somewhere. I wasn't sure how to think about this after
the 20th time. Do I look that lost?
>> 
>> That day, I had the choice to be stern, say no, and turn away from help,
or I could smile, say no, and continue on.
>> 
>> I'm glad I chose to take the chip off my shoulder that day.
>> 
>> Antonio
>> 
>> On Mar 1, 2014, at 2:15 PM, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
wrote:
>> 
>> > If you didn't need his help and didn't really want it, then what you
did is fine. Why does our opinion matter?
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Mar 1, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Mohamed <malhajamy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi all, I have a question about independence.  Earlier, someone
brought up the what is independence thread.  That reminds me of something.
So, this friday, I was in a cab.  I go to school by taking cabs.  So, this
driver in  particular, he wanted to help me  with practically everything.
Putting my stuff in, opening the cab's  door, getting into the school,
everything.  This is what I'm wondering.  When is it best to not accept
help, and when should I ask for help? In this situation, should I have
accepted help? Or should I have done what I did, and politely said no?
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
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