[nabs-l] Independence and courtesy

[Arielle Silverman]

Hi Joe,

I think I need to clarify my position. I don't think we should never
be offered or accept special treatment. I do think, as do you, that it
is fine for sighted folks to ask us what kind of special treatment, if
any, we require and to respect our answers. I also think we have a
responsibility to be mindful of what special treatment we accept, why
we accept it, and the potential costs of accepting it.

Unfortunately, my experience has been that many people aren't willing
to stop at asking if we want a courtesy. Instead, the bus driver
orders the front passenger to vacate their seat for me before I am
even halfway on the bus and can join the conversation. The kind couple
anonymously pays for my meal at a restaurant and leaves before I find
out and can be part of the conversation. Or the stranger, instead of
asking if I need help across the street, physically pulls on my body
and storms off in a huff when I ask them to stop; no time to educate
them on what would have been a better way to offer help.
Yes, there are exceptions to this, and some people are perfectly kind
and respectful. It's important not to always be expecting the worst.
But I hope you can understand that being offered special treatment
tends to get my feathers up in anticipation of an escalation that
denies me the opportunity to decline.

And, for the record, I don't think blind students should get extra
time on tests. I think this accommodation is unfair and doesn't
address the real problems that would be causing kids to need extra
time in the first place, like inadequate Braille instruction. Extra
time is an accommodation invented by sighted teachers in an effort to
try to level the playing field. I don't think it's the best
accommodation for us. Similarly, Randolph-Sheppard was passed in the
1930's before the NFB was around, by sighted  legislators trying to
help us find employment. It helps in some ways, but it, too, has a lot
of problems. I think the accommodations we are offered need to be
based on the needs real blind people identify and solutions that real
blind people imagine to address them. Of course, we will collaborate
with sighted people in advocating policies that affect us, but we
really need to be on the front lines (and by "we" I don't just mean
the NFB; I mean all blind people including unaffiliated blind and
those who disagree with NFB philosophy). If we accept special
treatment that is based on real needs and that is actually effective
in meeting those needs, that special treatment is no longer tied to
outsider assumptions about us. Of course, we should also consider that
if the world were set up to be accessible to us from  the get-go, we
wouldn't require any special accommodations.
It is not a black-and-white issue and the need for special
accommodation will differ between two blind people at any given time.
I agree that independence is not about rejecting all selective
treatment on principle. I think it is about being mindful of what
accommodations we seek out and why. Every accommodation has a cost of
some sort. Sometimes, it's other people's tax dollars or other
people's time. Other times it's a cost to personal freedom or
perception of oneself as a competent person. Accommodations also have
benefits and sometimes the benefits outweigh the costs. Other times
they don't, and when they don't, we have the right to reject them
without being considered excessively independent.

Best,
Arielle

On 3/7/14, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Arielle,
>
> I think on this one we're going to have to agree to disagree.
>
> First, you write:
>
> "Why does someone get up on the bus so I can sit, when they wouldn't do
> that
> for a sighted passenger? Because they have some assumption that I as a
> blind
> person need the seat more than they. Occasionally that may be true, but
> usually it's not."
>
> To which I say that the person has no idea when that occasional exception
> presents itself. Better that they ask, and you refuse, than you pass on an
> opportunity you could have had if the person had just extended the
> courtesy.
> I've never advocated that blind people should be forced to receive the
> courtesy. I agree with you that sometimes the help is misdirected, but
> thank
> goodness for two-way communication that can leave both parties satisfied.
>
> Second, we have to seize educational opportunities when they present
> themselves. No, I don't need that seat at the front of the bus. I really
> don't mind standing, or no, I can cross this street on my own. Want to see
> how? Yeah, that sounds a little like an after-school special, but some of
> the best educational opportunities have come from people asking to do
> something and then me telling them why it is I don't need it. The general
> public will never know if we don't educate.
>
> Next, you write:
>
> "I don't think it's about excessive independence or pride here. I think
> it's
> about people wanting to be perceived as equals, whether that be women or
> blind people, and selective courtesy interferes with that social goal."
>
> My response:
>
> I've always had a problem with that organizational mentality. Yes,
> blindness
> can be reduced to the level of a nuisance, but blindness is still a
> characteristic that necessitates certain courtesies to give the blind
> person
> an equal shot. If we took your statement on face, then we should eliminate
> extra time on exams. After all, it's your right to have an exam in the
> format you need to take it, but giving you extra time is  a courtesy other
> test takers did not receive. We should eliminate the Randolph Sheppard
> program, because other vendors can't get those vending facilities. As long
> as we're talking about buses, we should eliminate special transit services
> since people with disabilities, blind or otherwise, ought to be able to use
> public buses just like anyone else. As you yourself acknowledge "it comes
> with some kind of assumption about why one group of people is more
> deserving
> of that courtesy than another."
>
> I am not advocating we eliminate those courtesies. Yet, I raise the
> examples
> to show we can't have it both ways. There is a fine line between true
> independence and independence according to one's convenient definition.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>
> Visit my blog:
> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman [mailto:arielle71 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 11:05 PM
> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence and courtesy
>
> I'm all for people being nicer to each other and caring more about each
> other. I would say it is a problem if people selectively offer us
> courtesies
> they don't offer sighted people just because we are blind, just as I think
> it is a problem if men offer me courtesies as a woman that they wouldn't
> offer other men. To me selective courtesy is a form of discrimination. It
> allows some people but not others to experience kindness, but more
> importantly, it comes with some kind of assumption about why one group of
> people is more deserving of that courtesy than another. Why does someone
> get
> up on the bus so I can sit, when they wouldn't do that for a sighted
> passenger? Because they have some assumption that I as a blind person need
> the seat more than they.
> Occasionally that may be true, but usually it's not.
> And then there's times when people offer me unnecessary courtesies but then
> neglect to provide help I really need. Case in point, the bus driver lowers
> the bus entrance thinking I would have trouble climbing the step, but he
> neglects to say which bus he's driving. A simple "how can I help you?"
> query
> would have resolved that problem.
> That's why I have no problem if people ask me whether or not I want some
> form of assistance, because asking still leaves the power in my hands. It
> is
> a problem to me if someone assumes I would appreciate their gesture without
> asking.
> I don't think it's about excessive independence or pride here. I think it's
> about people wanting to be perceived as equals, whether that be women or
> blind people, and selective courtesy interferes with that social goal.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 3/6/14, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Arielle,
>>
>> My reference to courtesies really goes beyond blindness. I work in
>> Washington DC where too many people rush about with little regard to
>> basic niceties. Maybe it's the Texas boy in me coming out, but you get
>> to a point where kind gestures are more the exception than the norm. I
>> spent too many years building up my confidence for my independence to
>> be challenged by someone asking if I would like a seat or help across
>> the street or any number of gestures people think I could benefit
>> from, and I too find myself behaving extra nice to people in
>> wheelchairs, people with intellectual disabilities, and yes, women.
>> No, I don't think women are at any kind of disadvantage, but the only
>> thing that ever hurt a woman when a guy opened her car door, or the
>> front door or pulled out a chair for her at a restaurant was her
>> pride. The notion that I should feel inferior because someone was nice
>> toward me makes no sense to me. It's not the gestures we should fear.
>> It's
> when the gestures stop that we should truly worry.
>>
>> --
>> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>
>> Visit my blog:
>> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>> Silverman
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 9:56 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence and courtesy
>>
>> Hi Joe,
>>
>> I liked your blog post for the most part, but there was something in
>> there that puzzled me, as it sounded like a bit of a contradiction.
>> You say that you'd like it if people offered you front seats on the
>> bus because you are blind, yet admit that you would turn the offer
>> down. You also make a statement to the effect that if you were sighted
>> you would offer such special treatment to a blind person.
>> I question, What is the logic behind advocating special courtesies for
>> blind people that aren't extended to the sighted? Why should a blind
>> person be offered preferential seating or a discount as a courtesy
>> that is not offered to everyone else? Am I missing something? Is
>> receiving a seat near the door something that addresses
>> blindness-related needs? Perhaps it is something about being a guide
>> dog traveler?
>> While I sometimes take the seat near the door on a bus, it's usually
>> because I don't want to hold up the bus while I search for a back
>> seat. If someone wants to be courteous, I'd rather them verbally point
>> out empty seats to me rather than giving up their seats for me.
>> Nor do I expect a man to give me a seat because I am female. In fact,
>> I'd find such treatment insulting.
>>
>> I appreciate when people offer me courtesies that they would offer
>> anyone, such as holding the door open. I also like it when people
>> offer courtesies that address my access needs, like describing visual
>> things to me. I don't like it when people presume needs I don't have,
>> such as presuming I can't stand on a crowded bus. If people have
>> questions about how far my blindness affects my abilities, I'd rather
>> they ask than assume. I don't consider such assumptions about my
>> preferences based on my blindness, or my gender for that matter, to be
>> courtesies.
>>
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/5/14, Anjelina <anjelinac26 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Arielle,
>>> I hope you are archiving your wisdom for a book in the near future! I
>>> can't add much to your well-written message except I went through
>>> similar experiences. In my IEP had goals like I had to talk to so
>>> many people a day since I was a more interverted person.
>>> Social skills are wonderful and helpful, but real authentic
>>> friendships which are meaningful friendships are most important.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Anjelina
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Mar 5, 2014, at 12:22 AM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> OK. Since it was brought up here, I feel compelled to share some of
>>>> my experiences and controversial views on how blind people should
>>>> learn social skills. Some of you have heard this rant before in
>>>> part, but I think it is important enough to bear repeating every few
> years.
>>>> I guess I'm also curious if any of you have had similar experiences
>>>> growing up or if the things I am about to advocate make any sense to
>>>> others besides me.
>>>>
>>>> I have been blind my whole life and I was always an introverted
>>>> person. As a child I had few close  friends, read a lot by myself.
>>>> When I did hang out with kids my age I tended to be bossy and want
>>>> to control what we were doing. When adults came into my house and
>>>> tried to interact with me in ways I thought were childish or silly,
>>>> I would go to my room and read. I never was one for a lot of
>>>> physical affection, hugging, touching etc.
>>>> When I was growing up it was assumed that all my undesirable traits
>>>> linked back to my blindness. So it was assumed that because of my
>>>> blindness I had poor social skills. There were goals on my IEP
>>>> throughout elementary and middle school that dealt with my social
>>>> skills and my TVI was tasked with evaluating my progress. For
>>>> example, in elementary school I would get graded on goals like
>>>> "Shows interest in other children" or "asks others about their day".
>>>> In middle school, one goal on my IEP was "compliments others when
>>>> she likes
>> something".
>>>> I am not even slightly joking. My TVI would ask me every day to tell
>>>> her how many people I had complimented that day and she wrote it
>>>> down on her clipboard. The number of compliments I gave was expected
>>>> to increase over time. Since I  was usually a good student and I
>>>> liked and respected this teacher a lot, I tried my hardest to give
>>>> her a good compliment report every day, by contriving situations
>>>> where I could compliment my family and classmates. I still don't
>>>> understand what this had to do with my blindness. If I complimented
>>>> people less than my parents or teachers expected it was because that
>>>> just wasn't a big part of how I liked to interact with people. Had I
>>>> been sighted, I wouldn't have been graded on such a silly thing. She
>>>> also read me passages from a social skills book as a way to teach me
>>>> social
>> skills.
>>>> Eventually my TVI and I discussed this and she told me that my
>>>> parents had really expected her to do these things and she did even
>>>> though she knew they were ridiculous.
>>>> When people in the blindness world talk about social skills, it
>>>> seems they're usually referring to two things: skills at winning
>>>> friends and influencing people (charisma, likability, popularity) or
>>>> following social conventions like being places on time, attempting
>>>> eye contact, etc. (what Jedi refers to as "blending in"). By the
>>>> first set of criteria, winning friends and influencing people, Adolf
>>>> Hitler had wonderful social skills. I think there are other social
>>>> skills that are much more important for having lasting relationships:
>>>> things like sharing, helping others in need, being sensitive to
>>>> other people's feelings, respecting other people's opinions, not
>>>> holding
>> grudges.
>>>> There are many sighted politicians who have absolutely terrible
>>>> social skills by these criteria! These are all things that blind
>>>> people can learn just as well as sighted people by listening to
>>>> other people's conversations, talking about issues going on in the
>>>> world, and actually being a part of close relationships. I think the
>>>> most social skills I ever learned was by becoming friends with blind
>>>> people who were willing to be blunt and tell me if I was doing
>>>> something obnoxious. There is a lot we can learn about social
>>>> interaction just by listening, talking and sharing with others.
>>>> Reading about this stuff in a book, or being required to engage in
>>>> artificial interactions with others, doesn't help build these social
>>>> skills in the long term. Role-playing social interactions doesn't
>>>> help when you're out in the real world and the thing you practiced
>>>> feels really awkward and fake.
>>>> On blending in, I do think there are certain nonverbal things that
>>>> congenitally blind people should be explicitly told about so we can
>>>> make informed decisions about whether or not we want to blend in.
>>>> For example, of course blind folks should be told about which colors
>>>> people usually wear together or what kind of clothing is appropriate
>>>> for a job interview vs. the movies. But then, we still have the
>>>> right to choose to blend in or not. So  often it seems that blind
>>>> folks are labeled as having poor social skills when the fact is that
>>>> they've learned what is "appropriate" but chosen not to follow these
>>>> norms for whatever reason.
>>>> I realize now that my parents and teachers were unfortunately using
>>>> blindness and the IEP system to try to change who I fundamentally
>>>> was--to turn me into an extroverted, gregarious, charismatic person.
>>>> It took a long time for me to realize that I was OK being myself,
>>>> and that I was just reared in an environment where I didn't quite
> belong.
>>>> Although I don't have tons of friends, I have great relationships
>>>> with the friends I do have, a loving husband and co-workers who
>>>> respect me, and I try to be the best person I can. Most of  the
>>>> things I learned to get me to this place came from my firsthand
>>>> experiences making friends, my real discussions with others and a
>>>> lot of
>> trial and error.
>>>> I don't think I missed out on the process because I am blind, but I
>>>> also don't think the attempts to teach me social skills from a
>>>> textbook were either effective or necessary.
>>>> In closing, I hope that any good blindness center would support
>>>> students in developing social skills--by giving them opportunities
>>>> to make friends and have real social encounters--instead of
>>>> indoctrinating them with lessons based on a narrow definition of
>>>> social competence.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
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