[nabs-l] Extended Test Times

Sat Mar 8 21:01:15 UTC 2014

I think Steve makes an excellent point. Also, I think it's important
to distinguish between extra time needed to set up the technology or
to communicate with a test reader, vs. extra time spent agonizing over
questions because you can't figure out the answers. I heard somewhere
that on multiple-choice tests, 85% of people get the answer right on
their first gut-reaction answer. My experience has been that when I
used extra time it was usually spent trying to agonize over questions
I really wasn't prepared to answer. For example, I was given extra
time to solve problems involving tactile diagrams but it just took me
a second to feel the diagram. The rest of that time was spent going
over it repeatedly because I couldn't figure out what it was trying to
show, which was probably a combination of poorly made diagrams and
inadequate training in reading them. The extra time didn't improve my
performance and didn't help me get better at reading the diagrams; in
fact it just left me cranky and discouraged. If you are requiring
extra time a lot, it may be worth considering whether you really
understand the material and whether the test is provided in the best
possible format. Fixing one or both of these problems will probably
limit your need for extra time considerably while also improving your
grades and your morale.

Arielle

On 3/8/14, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess that would be dependent upon the job.  Maybe a good mentor in the
> field to give you some hints and ideas as to how best to accomplish certain
> parts of the job.  You seem to be quite skilled; I'd be coming to you for
> stuff Steve.  Everything you just said was accurate.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 2:00 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Test Times
>
> Justin,
>
> I've been a computer programmer and a computer analyst and am now a "data
> quality analyst", but it really doesn't matter.  If you are a teacher and
> you can't figure out how to grade papers as quickly as your co-workers, you
> aren't doing your job.  If you are a programmer and you can't generally get
> your work done to meet a deadline, you are not doing your job.  If you are
> a
> technical writer and can't deliver the document by the deadline, you are
> not
> doing your job.  I have been in situations, for example, where I had to
> provide data for a lawsuit where the data was ordered to be available by a
> judge.
>
> There are times in any job when deadlines are not met.  Sometimes they are
> not realistic, and sometimes sighted people don't meet them, either.
> However, you can't expect that because you are blind that a deadline will
> be
> extended for you because it is usually not an arbitrary deadline.  Usually
> it is set because of some other reason.  You will have to figure out how
> you
> can be more efficient or how you can take the extra time you need to
> complete the work on time.  I'm not telling you that I can do everything on
> my job as fast as my co-workers.  Some things I can't do as quickly.  What
> I
> have traditionally done, though, is figured out, usually on my own time,
> how
> I could automate certain tasks that my co-workers might have done manually,
> for example.  Sometimes I do have to work extra to get something done on
> time, but that even happens to sighted employees.  It is just a lot
> different than being a student.  Sometimes you actually have more
> flexibility in how you might accomplish a task, but you can't think that
> because you are blind that a deadline should be extended for that reason.
> The academic environment is artificial in some ways where blind people are
> concerned.  We have DSS offices to convert materials and extended test
> times.  If worse comes to worse and we fail a class, it isn't good, but we
> can take it again.  It is very inconsistent to what degree an employer
> might
> offer such things.  There isn't a disabled employee office in most cases
> that will convert materials for you.  If you miss a deadline and you don't
> have a reason other than blindness, you've missed an opportunity that can't
> just be given again.  At the very least, you would need to show that you
> learned something and won't likely make the same mistakes.  If you have
> ability and your employer sees that, they will cut you some slack, but
> there
> isn't the same right to extended time as there is when you are a student.
> One's time as a student is a perfect time to start experimenting with some
> of this because your risk is low.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 12:58:56 -0500, justin williams wrote:
>
>>What are you doing as an employee?
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
>>Jacobson
>>Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 12:37 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Test Times
>
>>I changed the subject but am wondering if people would be willing to
>>discuss the role of extended test times a bit more.  When I was in
>>school, there were no official extended test times but because of the
>>way I took tests I had extra time and I think it was understood that
>>was the case.  In other words, I received extra time with all concerned
> knowing that was the case.
>>I was a math major, and some of our tests had open book elements in
>>them.  I found that I probably didn't study as hard as I should have
>>because I was able to do some on the fly studying when I took the
>>tests.  Please understand, that isn't always the case, I know that, it
>>is just part of what I experienced.  I don't remember needing extra
>>time for multiple choice tests as long as I had a good reader.  It
>>finally occurred to me as a student that I wouldn't have extra time
>>when I am on the job.  If I needed extra time, it would have to come
>>out of my leisure time, and sometimes that might not even be possible.
>>I decided at some point that I needed to work on efficiency when I was
>>a student because it would be harder to do that on the job.  I changed
>>my study habbits and imposed the same time limits on testing that other
>>students had, although I excluded the time it took to convert the test
>> into
> an accessible format and convert my answers back.
>
>>So my question is this.  With extended test times now being acceptable
>>and even mandated, how does one transition from an environment where
>>you have extra time as a student to one where you don't have extra time
>>as an employee?
>
>>Best regards,
>
>>Steve Jacobson
>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa
>>>Green
>>>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:29 PM
>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence and courtesy
>
>>>there is another side to this issue.  what about miss blind smith who
>>>feels that she deserves the special treatment because she is blind.
>>>Thus she demands that people get out of the front seat, or that she be
>>>waved from a class.  I have met people like this.  It is annoying to
>>>me.  then sightling compares her to me.  When I say no thank you or
>>>don't demand special treatment.
>>>I would have to disagree about extended time on tests because it isn't
>>>just for blind people.  If someone wants to not take it then I think
>>>that they have the right to turn down the acomodation.  I could be
>>>wrong
>>about this.
>>>I personally use all of the accomodations that I am offered.  for me,
>>>that is part of my independence.  but, the blind person who demands
>>>all of the accomodations and want things to change for them.  For
>>>example, I was talking to a college professor the other day at my job.
>>>She teaches classes at a college as well as to pre school children.
>>>The first day I met her, she was very rude too me.  She asked me why I
>>>was there and when I said I was a teacher she stalked off.  So this
>>>week we were having a comversation and she told me of a blind person
>>>who came into her frinch class the first day and demanded all of these
>>>accomodations and she wasn't prepared.  This told me that is why she
>>>was so rude to me and surprised that me a blind woman would be
>>>teaching in a pre school.  This is because of her last experience with
>>>a blind person.  I took the time to say to her that not all blind
>>>people are like that person.  Usually blind students contact
>>>professors before the
>>first day of class.
>>>Have a blessed day.
>>>Best,
>>>Melissa R Green and PJ
>>>Some people come into your life just to teach you how to let go.
>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students
>>>mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 1:05 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence and courtesy
>
>
>>>Hi Joe,
>
>>>I think I need to clarify my position. I don't think we should never
>>>be offered or accept special treatment. I do think, as do you, that it
>>>is fine for sighted folks to ask us what kind of special treatment, if
>>>any, we require and to respect our answers. I also think we have a
>>>responsibility to be mindful of what special treatment we accept, why
>>>we accept it, and the potential costs of accepting it.
>
>>>Unfortunately, my experience has been that many people aren't willing
>>>to stop at asking if we want a courtesy. Instead, the bus driver
>>>orders the front passenger to vacate their seat for me before I am
>>>even halfway on the bus and can join the conversation. The kind couple
>>>anonymously pays for my meal at a restaurant and leaves before I find
>>>out and can be part of the conversation. Or the stranger, instead of
>>>asking if I need help across the street, physically pulls on my body
>>>and storms off in a huff when I ask them to stop; no time to educate
>>>them on what would have been a better way to offer help.
>>>Yes, there are exceptions to this, and some people are perfectly kind
>>>and respectful. It's important not to always be expecting the worst.
>>>But I hope you can understand that being offered special treatment
>>>tends to get my feathers up in anticipation of an escalation that
>>>denies me the opportunity to decline.
>
>>>And, for the record, I don't think blind students should get extra
>>>time on tests. I think this accommodation is unfair and doesn't
>>>address the real problems that would be causing kids to need extra
>>>time in the first place, like inadequate Braille instruction. Extra
>>>time is an accommodation invented by sighted teachers in an effort to
>>>try to level the playing field. I don't think it's the best accommodation
> for us.
>>>Similarly, Randolph-Sheppard was passed in the 1930's before the NFB
>>>was around, by sighted  legislators trying to help us find employment.
>>>It helps in some ways, but it, too, has a lot of problems. I think the
>>>accommodations we are offered need to be based on the needs real blind
>>>people identify and solutions that real blind people imagine to
>>>address them. Of course, we will collaborate with sighted people in
>>>advocating policies that affect us, but we really need to be on the
>>>front lines (and by "we" I don't just mean the NFB; I mean all blind
>>>people including unaffiliated blind and those who disagree with NFB
>>>philosophy). If we accept special treatment that is based on real
>>>needs and that is actually effective in meeting those needs, that
>>>special treatment is no longer tied to outsider assumptions about us.
>>>Of course, we should also consider that if the world were set up to be
>>accessible to us from  the get-go, we wouldn't require any special
>>accommodations.
>>>It is not a black-and-white issue and the need for special
>>>accommodation will differ between two blind people at any given time.
>>>I agree that independence is not about rejecting all selective
>>>treatment on principle. I think it is about being mindful of what
>>>accommodations we seek out and why. Every accommodation has a cost of
>>>some sort. Sometimes, it's other people's tax dollars or other
>>>people's time. Other times it's a cost to personal freedom or
>>>perception of oneself
>>as a competent person.
>>>Accommodations also have benefits and sometimes the benefits outweigh
>>>the costs. Other times they don't, and when they don't, we have the
>>>right to reject them without being considered excessively independent.
>
>>>Best,
>>>Arielle
>
>>>On 3/7/14, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Arielle,
>>>>
>>>> I think on this one we're going to have to agree to disagree.
>>>>
>>>> First, you write:
>>>>
>>>> "Why does someone get up on the bus so I can sit, when they wouldn't
>>>> do that for a sighted passenger? Because they have some assumption
>>>> that I as a blind person need the seat more than they. Occasionally
>>>> that may be true, but usually it's not."
>>>>
>>>> To which I say that the person has no idea when that occasional
>>>> exception presents itself. Better that they ask, and you refuse,
>>>> than you pass on an opportunity you could have had if the person had
>>>> just extended the courtesy.
>>>> I've never advocated that blind people should be forced to receive
>>>> the courtesy. I agree with you that sometimes the help is
>>>> misdirected, but thank goodness for two-way communication that can
>>>> leave both parties satisfied.
>>>>
>>>> Second, we have to seize educational opportunities when they present
>>>> themselves. No, I don't need that seat at the front of the bus. I
>>>> really don't mind standing, or no, I can cross this street on my own.
>>>> Want to see how? Yeah, that sounds a little like an after-school
>>>> special, but some of the best educational opportunities have come
>>>> from people asking to do something and then me telling them why it
>>>> is I don't need it. The general public will never know if we don't
> educate.
>>>>
>>>> Next, you write:
>>>>
>>>> "I don't think it's about excessive independence or pride here. I
>>>> think it's about people wanting to be perceived as equals, whether
>>>> that be women or blind people, and selective courtesy interferes
>>>> with that social goal."
>>>>
>>>> My response:
>>>>
>>>> I've always had a problem with that organizational mentality. Yes,
>>>> blindness can be reduced to the level of a nuisance, but blindness
>>>> is still a characteristic that necessitates certain courtesies to
>>>> give the blind person an equal shot. If we took your statement on
>>>> face, then we should eliminate extra time on exams. After all, it's
>>>> your right to have an exam in the format you need to take it, but
>>>> giving you extra time is  a courtesy other test takers did not
>>>> receive. We should eliminate the Randolph Sheppard program, because
>>>> other vendors can't get those vending facilities. As long as we're
>>>> talking about buses, we should eliminate special transit services
>>>> since people with disabilities, blind or otherwise, ought to be able
>>>> to use public buses just like anyone else. As you yourself
>>>> acknowledge "it comes with some kind of assumption about why one
>>>> group of people is more deserving of that courtesy than another."
>>>>
>>>> I am not advocating we eliminate those courtesies. Yet, I raise the
>>>> examples to show we can't have it both ways. There is a fine line
>>>> between true independence and independence according to one's
>>>> convenient definition.
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>>>
>>>> Visit my blog:
>>>> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Arielle Silverman [mailto:arielle71 at gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 11:05 PM
>>>> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
>>>> mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence and courtesy
>>>>
>>>> I'm all for people being nicer to each other and caring more about
>>>> each other. I would say it is a problem if people selectively offer
>>>> us courtesies they don't offer sighted people just because we are
>>>> blind, just as I think it is a problem if men offer me courtesies as
>>>> a woman that they wouldn't offer other men. To me selective courtesy
>>>> is a form of discrimination. It allows some people but not others to
>>>> experience kindness, but more importantly, it comes with some kind
>>>> of assumption about why one group of people is more deserving of
>>>> that courtesy than another. Why does someone get up on the bus so I
>>>> can sit, when they wouldn't do that for a sighted passenger? Because
>>>> they have some assumption that I as a blind person need the seat
>>>> more than
>>they.
>>>> Occasionally that may be true, but usually it's not.
>>>> And then there's times when people offer me unnecessary courtesies
>>>> but then neglect to provide help I really need. Case in point, the
>>>> bus driver lowers the bus entrance thinking I would have trouble
>>>> climbing the step, but he neglects to say which bus he's driving. A
>>>> simple "how can I help you?"
>>>> query
>>>> would have resolved that problem.
>>>> That's why I have no problem if people ask me whether or not I want
>>>> some form of assistance, because asking still leaves the power in my
>>>> hands. It is a problem to me if someone assumes I would appreciate
>>>> their gesture without asking.
>>>> I don't think it's about excessive independence or pride here. I
>>>> think it's about people wanting to be perceived as equals, whether
>>>> that be women or blind people, and selective courtesy interferes
>>>> with that social goal.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/14, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Arielle,
>>>>>
>>>>> My reference to courtesies really goes beyond blindness. I work in
>>>>> Washington DC where too many people rush about with little regard
>>>>> to basic niceties. Maybe it's the Texas boy in me coming out, but
>>>>> you get to a point where kind gestures are more the exception than
>>>>> the norm. I spent too many years building up my confidence for my
>>>>> independence to be challenged by someone asking if I would like a
>>>>> seat or help across the street or any number of gestures people
>>>>> think I could benefit from, and I too find myself behaving extra
>>>>> nice to people in wheelchairs, people with intellectual
>>>>> disabilities, and yes,
>>>women.
>>>>> No, I don't think women are at any kind of disadvantage, but the
>>>>> only thing that ever hurt a woman when a guy opened her car door,
>>>>> or the front door or pulled out a chair for her at a restaurant was
>>>>> her pride. The notion that I should feel inferior because someone
>>>>> was nice toward me makes no sense to me. It's not the gestures we
>>>>> should
>>>fear.
>>>>> It's
>>>> when the gestures stop that we should truly worry.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit my blog:
>>>>> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 9:56 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence and courtesy
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>>
>>>>> I liked your blog post for the most part, but there was something
>>>>> in there that puzzled me, as it sounded like a bit of a contradiction.
>>>>> You say that you'd like it if people offered you front seats on the
>>>>> bus because you are blind, yet admit that you would turn the offer
>>>>> down. You also make a statement to the effect that if you were
>>>>> sighted you would offer such special treatment to a blind person.
>>>>> I question, What is the logic behind advocating special courtesies
>>>>> for blind people that aren't extended to the sighted? Why should a
>>>>> blind person be offered preferential seating or a discount as a
>>>>> courtesy that is not offered to everyone else? Am I missing
>>>>> something? Is receiving a seat near the door something that
>>>>> addresses blindness-related needs? Perhaps it is something about
>>>>> being a guide dog traveler?
>>>>> While I sometimes take the seat near the door on a bus, it's
>>>>> usually because I don't want to hold up the bus while I search for
>>>>> a back seat. If someone wants to be courteous, I'd rather them
>>>>> verbally point out empty seats to me rather than giving up their seats
> for me.
>>>>> Nor do I expect a man to give me a seat because I am female. In
>>>>> fact, I'd find such treatment insulting.
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate when people offer me courtesies that they would offer
>>>>> anyone, such as holding the door open. I also like it when people
>>>>> offer courtesies that address my access needs, like describing
>>>>> visual things to me. I don't like it when people presume needs I
>>>>> don't have, such as presuming I can't stand on a crowded bus. If
>>>>> people have questions about how far my blindness affects my
>>>>> abilities, I'd rather they ask than assume. I don't consider such
>>>>> assumptions about my preferences based on my blindness, or my
>>>>> gender for that matter, to be courtesies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/5/14, Anjelina <anjelinac26 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>> I hope you are archiving your wisdom for a book in the near future!
>>>>>> I can't add much to your well-written message except I went
>>>>>> through similar experiences. In my IEP had goals like I had to
>>>>>> talk to so many people a day since I was a more interverted person.
>>>>>> Social skills are wonderful and helpful, but real authentic
>>>>>> friendships which are meaningful friendships are most important.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Anjelina
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 5, 2014, at 12:22 AM, Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>> <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK. Since it was brought up here, I feel compelled to share some
>>>>>>> of my experiences and controversial views on how blind people
>>>>>>> should learn social skills. Some of you have heard this rant
>>>>>>> before in part, but I think it is important enough to bear
>>>>>>> repeating every few
>>>> years.
>>>>>>> I guess I'm also curious if any of you have had similar
>>>>>>> experiences growing up or if the things I am about to advocate
>>>>>>> make any sense to others besides me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been blind my whole life and I was always an introverted
>>>>>>> person. As a child I had few close  friends, read a lot by myself.
>>>>>>> When I did hang out with kids my age I tended to be bossy and
>>>>>>> want to control what we were doing. When adults came into my
>>>>>>> house and tried to interact with me in ways I thought were
>>>>>>> childish or silly, I would go to my room and read. I never was
>>>>>>> one for a lot of physical affection, hugging, touching etc.
>>>>>>> When I was growing up it was assumed that all my undesirable
>>>>>>> traits linked back to my blindness. So it was assumed that
>>>>>>> because of my blindness I had poor social skills. There were
>>>>>>> goals on my IEP throughout elementary and middle school that
>>>>>>> dealt with my social skills and my TVI was tasked with evaluating my
> progress.
>>>>>>> For example, in elementary school I would get graded on goals
>>>>>>> like "Shows interest in other children" or "asks others about their
> day".
>>>>>>> In middle school, one goal on my IEP was "compliments others when
>>>>>>> she likes
>>>>> something".
>>>>>>> I am not even slightly joking. My TVI would ask me every day to
>>>>>>> tell her how many people I had complimented that day and she
>>>>>>> wrote it down on her clipboard. The number of compliments I gave
>>>>>>> was expected to increase over time. Since I  was usually a good
>>>>>>> student and I liked and respected this teacher a lot, I tried my
>>>>>>> hardest to give her a good compliment report every day, by
>>>>>>> contriving situations where I could compliment my family and
>>>>>>> classmates. I still don't understand what this had to do with my
>>>>>>> blindness. If I complimented people less than my parents or
>>>>>>> teachers expected it was because that just wasn't a big part of
>>>>>>> how I liked to interact with people. Had I been sighted, I
>>>>>>> wouldn't have been graded on such a silly thing. She also read me
>>>>>>> passages from a social skills book as a way to teach me social
>>>>> skills.
>>>>>>> Eventually my TVI and I discussed this and she told me that my
>>>>>>> parents had really expected her to do these things and she did
>>>>>>> even though she knew they were ridiculous.
>>>>>>> When people in the blindness world talk about social skills, it
>>>>>>> seems they're usually referring to two things: skills at winning
>>>>>>> friends and influencing people (charisma, likability, popularity)
>>>>>>> or following social conventions like being places on time,
>>>>>>> attempting eye contact, etc. (what Jedi refers to as "blending
>>>>>>> in"). By the first set of criteria, winning friends and
>>>>>>> influencing people, Adolf Hitler had wonderful social skills. I
>>>>>>> think there are other social skills that are much more important
>>>>>>> for having lasting
>>>relationships:
>>>>>>> things like sharing, helping others in need, being sensitive to
>>>>>>> other people's feelings, respecting other people's opinions, not
>>>>>>> holding
>>>>> grudges.
>>>>>>> There are many sighted politicians who have absolutely terrible
>>>>>>> social skills by these criteria! These are all things that blind
>>>>>>> people can learn just as well as sighted people by listening to
>>>>>>> other people's conversations, talking about issues going on in
>>>>>>> the world, and actually being a part of close relationships. I
>>>>>>> think the most social skills I ever learned was by becoming
>>>>>>> friends with blind people who were willing to be blunt and tell
>>>>>>> me if I was doing something obnoxious. There is a lot we can
>>>>>>> learn about social interaction just by listening, talking and
>>>>>>> sharing
> with others.
>>>>>>> Reading about this stuff in a book, or being required to engage
>>>>>>> in artificial interactions with others, doesn't help build these
>>>>>>> social skills in the long term. Role-playing social interactions
>>>>>>> doesn't help when you're out in the real world and the thing you
>>>>>>> practiced feels really awkward and fake.
>>>>>>> On blending in, I do think there are certain nonverbal things
>>>>>>> that congenitally blind people should be explicitly told about so
>>>>>>> we can make informed decisions about whether or not we want to blend
> in.
>>>>>>> For example, of course blind folks should be told about which
>>>>>>> colors people usually wear together or what kind of clothing is
>>>>>>> appropriate for a job interview vs. the movies. But then, we
>>>>>>> still have the right to choose to blend in or not. So  often it
>>>>>>> seems that blind folks are labeled as having poor social skills
>>>>>>> when the fact is that they've learned what is "appropriate" but
>>>>>>> chosen not to follow these norms for whatever reason.
>>>>>>> I realize now that my parents and teachers were unfortunately
>>>>>>> using blindness and the IEP system to try to change who I
>>>>>>> fundamentally was--to turn me into an extroverted, gregarious,
>>charismatic person.
>>>>>>> It took a long time for me to realize that I was OK being myself,
>>>>>>> and that I was just reared in an environment where I didn't quite
>>>> belong.
>>>>>>> Although I don't have tons of friends, I have great relationships
>>>>>>> with the friends I do have, a loving husband and co-workers who
>>>>>>> respect me, and I try to be the best person I can. Most of  the
>>>>>>> things I learned to get me to this place came from my firsthand
>>>>>>> experiences making friends, my real discussions with others and a
>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>> trial and error.
>>>>>>> I don't think I missed out on the process because I am blind, but
>>>>>>> I also don't think the attempts to teach me social skills from a
>>>>>>> textbook were either effective or necessary.
>>>>>>> In closing, I hope that any good blindness center would support
>>>>>>> students in developing social skills--by giving them
>>>>>>> opportunities to make friends and have real social
>>>>>>> encounters--instead of indoctrinating them with lessons based on
>>>>>>> a narrow definition of social competence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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