[nabs-l] Personal characteristics and traits of successful blind people

[Joe]

Steve,

I hardly think my words are dismal. My opposition is to people who claim
success is irrelevant to blindness, and it was my response that the
persistent unemployment rate tells a different story. I struggle with the
notion that those 70 plus percent refuse to succeed. You can indeed become a
teacher, an attorney, engineer, or anything else your heart desires, but as
some here have pointed out, you must also conquer the first stretch of
unique obstacles that present themselves to blind individuals.

I too derive positive energy from the NFB philosophy, and despite my
backhanded remark of the organization's leadership, I think they are mostly
well-appointed to act on our collective concerns. However, these
over-simplistic marketing sound bites and training center promises do
nothing for the blind person at any stage of their independence who find
themselves with tangible challenges no amount of positive philosophy can
immediately resolve.

All I am advocating for is a little pragmatic planning. You will most
assuredly succeed. Yet, you must be prepared to go the extra mile to get
there. It is not so simple as completing a round of training and presuming
the world will be at your feet. We criticize our sighted peers for
celebrating tasks we accomplish, because in our minds, these are minimal
tasks anyone could accomplish. Me, I say to heck with that. I'm proud of you
for the man you are. You make me look good to the public by association
because you first challenged yourself to be an independent blind person and
then went out and lived up to your own professional aspirations.

Success does indeed have many faces. Yet, I think that belief can just as
easily help us justify our accomplishments to skeptics as it can help us
justify our complacency. I can't tell if I'm more of a hard-liner than you
on this discussion, but regardless, we should both agree that the core
message needs to change a bit if we want to reverse the declining interest
in the traditional grassroots movement. There are too many approaches and
too many channels to compare those approaches to claim the old mantras of a
one-size-fits-all mentality are still relevant.

--
Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

Visit my blog:
http://joeorozco.com/blog


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Jacobson [mailto:steve.jacobson at visi.com] 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 8:47 PM
To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Personal characteristics and traits of successful
blind people

Joe,

Good grief, which lack of opportunities do we have control over?  If we had
control over them, they would no longer constitute a lack of opportunities.
It feels like you are playing games with words here.  Blindness is going to
be more than a nuisance at times as are many, many other things in life.  Is
it fair that we are not all born sighted?  Of course not, but you could say
that about a lot of characteristics.  It is my understanding that the
"reduced to a nuisance" thing was intended to address the notion that many
sighted peopl have that we wake up every morning dreading living another day
as a blind person.  I can honestly say I do not wake up that way.  A month
ago, it was fifteen below zero here in Minnesota and a cab dropped me off at
the wrong place.  I pulled out my iPhone to use BlindSquare to see where I
was.  My fingers got so cold so quickly that I couldn't access it.  Right
then, blindness was more than a nuisance, and I don't mind admitting that.
We have some big obstacles now and some will get bigger if we don't figure
out how to deal with them more successfully.  Accessibility is a very big
one.  Let's not forget, though, that thirty years ago, and I remember
because I was in the work place then, we had access to no forms, no mail, no
banking information and on and on.  We had to hire readers for all of it.
In some ways, I think taking classes back then was actually easier, though,
than it is today, although I would have given a lot to be able to use the
web to do research as can be done now.  Things change, they gett better in
some ways but worse in others.  There are many things about life that can be
difficult, and blindness is one, but not the only one and I maintain often
not the biggest one.  What our philosophy does for me is to help me keep it
in some sort of perspective.  Being born sighted would have been nice, but
so would being born rich, or being born with an irresistable artistic
tallent or maybe even athletic skills.  Regardless of one's level of
patriotism, I thing most would agree that being born blind here and in many
other countries is probably preferable to being born sighted in a war zone
or area of unrest.  

There are far too many of us who have not been able to move ahead to the
degree that they likely would have had they been born sighted.  We have to
keep trying to make opportunities better than they are.  In some ways, I
think we have been fighting pretty hard just to stay even, but where would
we be if we hadn't fought.  I am frankly somewhat concerned about where we
are right now with respect to accessibility, but I'm going to try to do what
I can to make the chances better that it will move in the right direction.
We also have to be willing to use other tools when we need to.  It means
asking for help sometimes but it also means finding a way to return the help
we are given in another way.  As I think you know, I don't work at the
heights of the blindness movement, but I know I have been lucky in many ways
and I am mindful of that.  I just don't see where preaching hopelessness is
going to help us.  
When I was looking for a job, just knowing that others had found jobs helped
me keep moving.  However, I was also able to learn from them so I received
tangible assistance in that way, too.  

I think that too much time is spent on trying to define "nuisance" and
"non-issue" instead of trying to get to the true intent of using those
words, to paint a picture that is less bleak and to offer hope and support.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 19:39:50 -0400, Joe wrote:

>Arielle,

>Inaccessible technology, lack of transit, and discrimination are not 
>merely lack of opportunities. They are depictions of reality over which 
>we do not always have control. Perhaps it could be said that blindness, 
>could, be a non-issue if the stars aligned and these inconveniences did 
>not slow down our forward momentum, but few are the blind people who 
>can move through life without experiencing frustration with the delays 
>and detours at random points along the way. In fact, I would submit 
>that those few for whom blindness is truly a non-issue are the ones 
>working at the heights of the blindness movement where it is easy to 
>drum up platitudes of opportunity and analogies of blindness to a 
>nuisance. Whatever will motivate you to go out and raise money for the 
>cause, right? For the rest of us living outside of that leadership 
>bubble, life's tough. Can it be done? Most assuredly, and I will take a 
>motivational whip to anyone's arse who claims otherwise, but there's 
>success according to the over-simplistic way Baltimore preaches and then
there's success according to the real-world way the rest of us earn it.

>--
>Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

>Visit my blog:
>http://joeorozco.com/blog

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle 
>Silverman
>Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:33 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Personal characteristics and traits of 
>successfulblind people

>Joe, I think all the examples you cite are instances of lack of
opportunity.
>Inaccessible technology, lack of transit, discrimination; these are all 
>denials of opportunity. Everyone admits that blindness makes a lack of 
>opportunity more of a barrier. But when there is opportunity--when 
>things are accessible, there are ways to get around besides driving a 
>car, etc.--blindness becomes a non-issue.
>Arielle

>On 3/29/14, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Funny you mentioned that... because it's actually one of my favorite 
>> speeches and, in my opinion, one of the best explanations of The way 
>> I interpret and apply Federation philosophy. If you recall, his main 
>> point in that speech was that real independence means getting things 
>> done in the most efficient way possible, Without placing ridiculously 
>> high burdens on other people. He went out of his way to repeatedly 
>> emphasize that real independence, As he saw it, does indeed mean you 
>> accept assistance if you want it, if it will really be helpful, and 
>> as long as it is on your terms and not somebody else's. That speech 
>> is easily one of my favorites-I think it's fair to say there are some 
>> people
>in the federation who don't quite live by it.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Mar 29, 2014, at 10:10 AM, "justin williams"
>>> <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Revisit the Dr. Jernican speech on interdependence.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:03 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Personal characteristics and traits of 
>>> successfulblind people
>>>
>>> Absolutely nothing and, if you think that's what the federation 
>>> teaches, you've been listening to the wrong people.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Mar 29, 2014, at 6:46 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good morning, everyone,
>>>>
>>>> So, going back to how Robin holds up interdependence as a means of 
>>>> getting
>>> assistance for such things as not quite accessable forms, what's 
>>> wrong with that?
>>>> for today, Car
>>>>
>>>> At 02:23 PM 3/28/2014, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>> very well said. I, too, cannot believe blindness is a nuisance
anymore.
>>> Not with the barriers I face because the world is not conducive to 
>>> nonvisual access, especially appliances and technology. Do I think 
>>> about blindness a lot? No, its part of me; actually I have low 
>>> vision.
>>>>> I go about my business like making breakfast, listening to the 
>>>>> news and
>>> weather via radio and watching tv shows that are rather auditory a 
>>> lot and feel happy. I don't think about that I'm doing things 
>>> differently because of my vision or feel down over it. But, it does 
>>> play a role in my ability to accomplish visual tasks. For instance 
>>> filling out job applications; its like half are inaccessible; I came 
>>> across at least three which say errors, fix the boxes by red stars, 
>>> and I do not know what the errors are. or others I fill out are not 
>>> accepted telling me that I missed fields, and I have no idea which 
>>> fields I missed. I need some eyes to assist me.
>>>>> Then there is the transit issue; with mobility being a challenge, 
>>>>> I
>>> struggle with that, and hate the inconvenience of paratransit.
>>>>> Then you have electronics which we cannot see.  So, no its not a 
>>>>> nuisance, and we have not made enough progress to render blindness
>>> insignificant in doing what we want to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I agree with you on success. Its about living your 
>>>>> passions. Its
>>> also, I believe, about making goals, and doing them to change the world.
>>> Go
>>> out and achieve big things for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, yeah, success is you. Having a federal job as you do in that 
>>>>> field,
>>> is a rather successful thing you accomplished.
>>>>> You  are smart.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Joe
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 9:12 PM
>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Personal characteristics and traits of 
>>>>> successfulblind people
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil,
>>>>>
>>>>> A successful blind person looks, acts, and communicates like me.
>>>>> Isn't that obvious?
>>>>>
>>>>> But, kidding aside, I want to give you a different perspective 
>>>>> from the people whining about how it is unfair to make blindness a 
>>>>> factor in
>>> success.
>>>>> Apparently some of us believe that success is success and 
>>>>> blindness is irrelevant, but to deny that blindness is a factor is 
>>>>> to deny the reality that more than 70% of our blind peers are
unemployed.
>>>>> To a degree, overcoming blindness is success onto itself, and if 
>>>>> you can't succeed there, a person's likelihood of succeeding 
>>>>> anywhere else is slim. Is the person willing to advocate for 
>>>>> themselves? Are they willing to work twice as hard to achieve 
>>>>> tasks their sighted peers can complete sometimes in half the time? 
>>>>> Are they honest enough with themselves to tell if they possess 
>>>>> sufficient daily living, technology, and communication skills to 
>>>>> succeed at life, let alone the workplace? It may be true that our 
>>>>> sighted peers may need to ponder some of these points, but not 
>>>>> with the same necessity or to the same depth as the blind person 
>>>>> who has to be extra competitive to
>>> beat sighted applicants.
>>>>>
>>>>> At some point over the past several years I stopped subscribing to 
>>>>> the NFB notion that blindness can be reduced to the level of a 
>>>>> nuisance. Were that true, I believe we would have seen better 
>>>>> progress where blind people are concerned. Blindness presents 
>>>>> certain unique challenges a person must regularly overcome to 
>>>>> excel. Yes, building up confidence makes the process easier, but I 
>>>>> don't know that we have reached a point in our evolution of 
>>>>> independence that blindness is irrelevant, and certainly not so 
>>>>> minimal as to be labeled a
>>> minor inconvenience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, as to success across the board, blind or sighted, I think 
>>>>> pursuing your own passions is a key ingredient. I wrote a blog 
>>>>> post on the subject, which you can read at the link below:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://joeorozco.com/blog_are_you_living_someone_elses_dream
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit my blog:
>>>>> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Phil
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 6:29 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Personal characteristics and traits of 
>>>>> successful blind people
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm working on a research paper, and would like to hear what you
think.
>>>>> Obviously there are external factors such as accessibility 
>>>>> barriers, social and attitudinal barriers and so on that affect a 
>>>>> blind person's likelihood of success in life.  But if we focus on 
>>>>> personal characteristics for a moment, what do you think are some 
>>>>> personal characteristics that can help a blind person succeed, or 
>>>>> ask in a different way, what characteristics and behavior traits 
>>>>> do successful blind people around you exhibit? And what makes you 
>>>>> cite
>these traits?
>>>>> For example, some have rightly pointed out that a sense of 
>>>>> curiosity and exploration is key, both curiosity to explore one's 
>>>>> physical surrounding, intellectual curiosity to explore different 
>>>>> subjects and career possibilities, and so on. Others have also 
>>>>> pointed out having the courage to be different is important as a 
>>>>> blind
>person.
>>>>> What else do you think are important characteristics or behavior
>traits?
>>>>> Hope to hear lots of diverse views on this.
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
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