[nabs-l] Using a credit/debit card

Mon Nov 10 23:49:46 UTC 2014

Yes.
Apple Pay basically allows you to ID with your Touch ID setup, and
then connect via something similar to Bluetooth, I believe its called
RF, or infared, to the machine in question, and the iPhone sends the
info to the machine machine encrypted.
The thing is it has to be a special receiver, which is what makes me
guess the information is encrypted, and also, you have to have both an
iPhone 6 and a Chase Bank account.
And, for those of you who are worried about someone getting your number,
I should point out that there have been infa-red attacks from pretty
far away, using infared devices to read your entire number and
security info on credit cards.
So the simplest way--aka your caasheer seing the info isn't usually unsafe.
And, the casheer doesn't even seethe info now adays anyway.

On 11/10/14, Suzanne Germano via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Don't forget that not so long ago everyone handed their card to the cashier
> and it was put in the machine that did the carbon copy prints and the
> carbon copy with your full credit card number sat in the cash drawer all
> day for any employee to get your number. I don't recall too many times hear
> of an employee stealing the card numbers but I am sure it happened here and
> there.
>
> there are also retailers that their system has the card swipe on the
> cashiers keyboard and you hand them your card and they swipe it. So I am
> not super worried about store employees getting the numbers.
>
> The stolen numbers are most often happening from people hacking into the
> system.
>
> I had to get my cards replaced due to both the Target and Home Depot hack
> and in both cases I swiped the card myself.
>
> I used to always have my credit card number memorized. My dad puts his
> number in code on other things in his wallet. No one would know it is a
> credit card number so you could come up with a code and store it in phone.
>
> I haven't looked at Apple pay at all but is that something that would allow
> for independent payments at stores?
>
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Valerie Gibson via nabs-l <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Going to just jump in here for a sec to make one comment for
>> consideration.
>>
>> What you also need to understand is that with today's technology, it only
>> takes a second for someone to get your card info, as that happened to me
>> at
>> jamba juice once.
>>
>> So I'm not comfortable handing my card to the casheer, but I do so if I
>> have to.
>>
>> One could argue that wether or not you give your card to someone, a person
>> could still hack the system and get card info.  Target anyone?
>>
>> So just some food for thought.
>>
>> > On Nov 10, 2014, at 10:52 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > I do not believe that the cashier can see your pin on their screen
>> > unless you specifically give it to them verbally. My card, as many
>> > others do, funcions both as debit and credit. So, yes, I feel
>> > uncomfortable handing it to some random stranger to scan. If sighted
>> > people can complete their transactions securely and independently, why
>> > shouldn't I be able to as well?
>> > Aleeha
>> >
>> > On 11/10/14, Jorge Paez via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >> I disagree on your second point.
>> >> They've never asked me that info, even when I end up giving them the
>> >> card to swipe.
>> >> And anyway, as long as they swipe it or I do it, either way don't they
>> >> get the infoshowing up on the screen?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 11/10/14, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>> Good morning, Cindy, and everyone,
>> >>>
>> >>> Just let the perceived need for a signature guide go, in this case.
>> >>> Also, I think when you are using point of sale machines, your card
>> >>> can't be used unless the man behind the counter has both your card
>> >>> number and your PIN.
>> >>> Hope this helps your paranoia!
>> >>> Car At 08:13 AM 11/10/2014, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>> >>>> I have been told that sometimes a signature guide will interfere with
>> >>>> some touchscreen systems. I, personally, hate the point of sale
>> >>>> devices. I can never see what the charge is, I work with many that
>> >>>> are
>> >>>> completely touchscreen, including the pin pad, and I just don't have
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> lot of faith in the average Joe behind the counter. Call me paranoid,
>> >>>> but there you have it. I would love to have my cards in Braille so
>> >>>> that I don't have to ask someone for all that information on anny new
>> >>>> card that I get.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 11/9/14, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>>> I think that everyone has their preferences for how they keep track
>> of
>> >>>>> information. I have three credit cards and am the treasurer of 2
>> >>>>> organizations. each with their own card. Not to mention my insurance
>> >>>>> card, various loyalty cards, my student ID, bus pass, the list goes
>> on
>> >>>>> that are crammed in my wallet. I have pretty much gotten my credit
>> >>>>> card information down, but it always takes me a while when I get an
>> >>>>> updated card to memorize the new information. I do not use the
>> >>>>> treasury information enough to have it memorized. I can read the
>> print
>> >>>>> numbers on credit cards with raised numbers but can't read the
>> >>>>> three-digit cvv and can often not read the expiration date since it
>> is
>> >>>>> in a smaller font. Some credit cards have no raised lines. So, if
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>> can memorize everything, that's awesome. But I don't trust myself
>> >>>>> enough. If I am ordering a pizza, the person on the other line
>> doesn't
>> >>>>> really have time for me to think about my credit card number. I need
>> >>>>> to spout it off quickly. I can often do this, but having a braille
>> >>>>> backup is really handy.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The nice part is that I think braille is one of the safest ways to
>> >>>>> store personal information like that.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Cindy
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 11/9/14, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Maybe I'm not understanding this right, but why would you want to
>> >>>>>> have
>> >>>>>> your card in braille?  I found it pretty easy to just memorize my
>> >>>>>> number, my security pin, and my expiration date for both of the
>> >>>>>> credit
>> >>>>>> cards I've had.  The number that I am to call in case of an
>> emergency
>> >>>>>> is available in emails I receive with links to view my statements
>> >>>>>> online.  With this set up, is there anything that would be
>> >>>>>> available
>> >>>>>> in braille that I'm not getting using these methods?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> As for using a credit card, I have not really had a problem with
>> >>>>>> it.
>> >>>>>> As others have said, the slot should always be on the right side of
>> >>>>>> the machine, and you can usually use the raised numbering on the
>> >>>>>> picture side of the card to help you tactally orient it.  A sticker
>> >>>>>> will also help too, and should not cause you any problems swiping.
>> >>>>>> I
>> >>>>>> have no shame in asking the cashier to swipe the card for me and
>> >>>>>> put
>> >>>>>> in my acceptance of the charges if the screen is inaccessible, and
>> in
>> >>>>>> my experiences the signature box has always shown up towards the
>> >>>>>> bottom or the middle of the screen.  Usually the cashier will tell
>> me
>> >>>>>> that the okay button is in the top right corner, or bottom right,
>> >>>>>> etc,
>> >>>>>> and I'll be able to hit it with the pen based on those directions.
>> I
>> >>>>>> always ask to make sure the card swiped okay.  I find this method
>> >>>>>> extremely helpful when doing things like grocery shopping; that way
>> I
>> >>>>>> don't have to worry about having a certain amount of cash on hand,
>> >>>>>> I
>> >>>>>> can keep track of my spending habits over time, and I can build my
>> >>>>>> credit by paying back my bills on time.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hope this helps.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 11/8/14, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Good morning, John,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> My roommate banks at Wells Fargo and receives his card in braille,
>> >>>>>>> while I bank with BofA and do not receive my own debet card in
>> >>>>>>> braille.
>> >>>>>>> Car01 AM 11/8/2014, starmy22--- via nabs-l wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>>>>> I have a question: when getting a new debit or credit card, is it
>> >>>>>>>> possible for the company who makes the cards to put them in
>> braille
>> >>>>>>>> if requested by the blind user so they could read them?
>> >>>>>>>> I hope to hear from you soon.
>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>> >>>>>>>> John Sanders
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez via nabs-l
>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 4:42 PM
>> >>>>>>>> To: Cindy Bennett ; National Association of Blind Students
>> >>>>>>>> mailing
>> >>>>>>>> list
>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using a credit/debit card
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I can say from personal experience that using a signature guide
>> on a
>> >>>>>>>> touch screen is fine.
>> >>>>>>>> Good point about the location of the swiping mechanism though.
>> >>>>>>>> Also, labeling your cards is another option, so that you know,
>> >>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>> instance, that the letter W for Welsfargo always faces away from
>> you
>> >>>>>>>> when you swipe, that kinda thing.
>> >>>>>>>> I find that very useful on my cards as well.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 11/7/14, Cindy Bennett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I think the suggestions thus far have been great. If the card
>> just
>> >>>>>>>>> has
>> >>>>>>>>> a magnetic strip, you can even cut one of the two corners that
>> does
>> >>>>>>>>> not have a strip. This is not good to do on cards such as bus
>> >>>>>>>>> passes
>> >>>>>>>>> or student ID's if you don't swipe them but wave them in front
>> of a
>> >>>>>>>>> sensor.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I would say that credit card machines tend to be oriented in 2
>> >>>>>>>>> fashions. Either the slot is on the right or the top. I always
>> >>>>>>>>> slide
>> >>>>>>>>> my card from top to bottom or from left to right depending on
>> where
>> >>>>>>>>> the slot is. I always orient the card so the magnetic strip is
>> >>>>>>>>> sliding
>> >>>>>>>>> through the slot itself, and I face the card so the magnetic
>> strip
>> >>>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>>> sliding against the part of the machine that is bigger. For
>> >>>>>>>>> example,
>> >>>>>>>>> if the slot is along the right side, you would want the strip
>> >>>>>>>>> facing
>> >>>>>>>>> toward and sliding against the left edge of the slot since the
>> bulk
>> >>>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>>> the machine is to the left of the slot. If the slot is on top,
>> face
>> >>>>>>>>> the strip toward you as you slide it. Sometimes, the slot is on
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>> right side, but it is oriented so you lay your card down on the
>> >>>>>>>>> machine and slide it down. This means that the magnetic strip
>> would
>> >>>>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>> facing down. It would be similar to laying your card flat on a
>> >>>>>>>>> table
>> >>>>>>>>> and sliding it down the table.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I do get irritated at businesses that require a touch signature.
>> I
>> >>>>>>>>> find it difficult to know where the field is and often just sign
>> my
>> >>>>>>>>> initials or an X. If you carry a signature guide with you, you
>> >>>>>>>>> could
>> >>>>>>>>> ask the cashier to place the guide accordingly. I have always
>> >>>>>>>>> wondered
>> >>>>>>>>> however if the presence of a guide would activate other touch
>> >>>>>>>>> buttons
>> >>>>>>>>> on a touch pad.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I have noticed that the touch ok button is often on the lower
>> right
>> >>>>>>>>> corner of the screen.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I've come to learn which businesses have which minimums. It is
>> >>>>>>>>> interesting that you can slide as debit or credit and the
>> >>>>>>>>> transaction
>> >>>>>>>>> shows up similarly, so I go with the path of least resistance if
>> I
>> >>>>>>>>> know. For example, I know that Rite Aid does not require a
>> >>>>>>>>> signature
>> >>>>>>>>> unless over $25, so if my transaction is $25 or less, I will
>> slide
>> >>>>>>>>> as
>> >>>>>>>>> credit. If it is more, I will enter my pin as their pin pad is
>> >>>>>>>>> tactile.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I'm sure excited about Apple Pay though. Start asking around for
>> >>>>>>>>> it!
>> >>>>>>>>> There are a couple of apps sponsored by various banks that give
>> >>>>>>>>> location-based information about what businesses support soft
>> card
>> >>>>>>>>> aka
>> >>>>>>>>> ApplePay or Gogle Wallet forms of payment.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Cindy
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/7/14, Jorge Paez via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> Darian:
>> >>>>>>>>>> On machines that have the tactile keypad the ok button always
>> has
>> >>>>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>> circle on it and is usually in the lower right corner of the
>> >>>>>>>>>> machine.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/7/14, Darian Smith via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Kaley,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Point of Sale machines are notorious for their inaccessibility
>> >>>>>>>>>>> ty.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>  Most times I find it fairly simple to find the card reader
>> >>>>>>>>>>> slot
>> >>>>>>>>>>> as
>> >>>>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>> tends to either be on the right side of machines  in such
>> places
>> >>>>>>>>>>> as
>> >>>>>>>>>>> supermarkets.  I tend to be able to  tactually identify a
>> groove
>> >>>>>>>>>>> where
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> card would go.   however  finding   the "ok" button has been
>> >>>>>>>>>>> pretty
>> >>>>>>>>>>> difficult to do without sighted assistance  in  my view.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>  For obvious reasons the clerk is very willing to help you
>> >>>>>>>>>>> find
>> >>>>>>>>>>> what
>> >>>>>>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>>>>>> need to find, though it would be  much   more ideal to be able
>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> go
>> >>>>>>>>>>> about
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the process   independently  as  others in the store can.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>  Darian
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 7, 2014, at 11:30 AM, kcj21 via nabs-l
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>           Generally, I pay with cash, but it is difficult
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> when
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> use my credit or debit card. I find that the machines aren't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> uniform
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> can't always tell where I am suposed to swipe or where to
>> press
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "ok".
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> you guys have any tricks for using debit/credit cards.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kaley
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> >>>>>>>>>>>> for
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>> >>>> b%40gmail.com
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> >>>> z1994%40gmail.com
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>> Jorge A. Paez
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> >>>>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>> Cindy Bennett
>> >>>>>>>>> 1st Year Ph.D. Student, University of Washington
>> >>>>>>>>> Human Centered Design and Engineering
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National
>> >>>>>>>>> Federation of the Blind of Washington
>> >>>>>>>>> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>> >>>> 994%40gmail.com
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>> Jorge A. Paez
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>>>
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>> >>>> omcast.net
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Kaiti
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Cindy Bennett
>> >>>>> 1st Year Ph.D. Student, University of Washington
>> >>>>> Human Centered Design and Engineering
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Treasurer of the Greater Seattle Chapter and of the National
>> >>>>> Federation of the Blind of Washington
>> >>>>> Affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Aleeha Dudley and Seeing Eye Yellow Labrador Dallas
>> >>>> Vice President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
>> >>>> Email: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
>> >>>> Follow me on Twitter at @blindcowgirl199
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears.
>> >>>> - Arabian Proverb
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>
>> >>>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Jorge A. Paez
>> >>
>> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Aleeha Dudley and Seeing Eye Yellow Labrador Dallas
>> > Vice President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
>> > Email: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
>> > Follow me on Twitter at @blindcowgirl199
>> >
>> > The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears.
>> > - Arabian Proverb
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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-- 
Jorge A. Paez

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994