[nabs-l] accomodations for english classes

Tue Feb 3 16:30:49 UTC 2015

cannot read due to the fact that the text is smashed together. Access means the same access to the text that other students have. Other students don’t have to read smashed words. Students do not have to wait months for their books. So we should not be any different. I my opinion, meaningful access to material does not mean, frankly, a crappy text that students 
Aleeha Dudley and Seeing Eye Dog Dallas 
Vice President, Ohio Association of Guide Dog Users 
Vice President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 
Both proud divisions of the National Federation of the Blind of Ohio 
Email: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com <mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> 
The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back. 
“The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse’s ears.” - Arabian proverb 

> On Feb 3, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Michael D Ausbun via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 	I have not ever given due credit to my university, it seems, for being one of the most accessible universities I have heard of, thus far. They have a team of processors who use a combination of ABBY, adobe pro and a spell checker for all students requiring alternative media. 
> 	Anyways, Karl’s suggestions seem to be extremely good. This is why I always try to get my books through Bookshare, just in case, if the school decides that reasonable accommodation does not include awesome copies of text material. It sounds to me, anyways, that your University is simply following the law to the letter. ADA specifies reasonable accommodation–under the common interpretation, reasonable is simple access. It may not be good access, but if you have some, then you are good to go. Of course, we recognize that some access is not adequate; however, it seems that there is nothing else that you might be able to do, other than to run the files through either Robobraille, or request from Bookshare (which, at this point in the semester, will take about 2-3 months before they add it to the collection).
> IMO, PDF TXT, DOC DOCX and HTML are better than RTF; but I'm sure that is a preference thing.
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of justin williams via nabs-l [nabs-l at nfbnet.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 6:27 AM
> To: 'Aleeha Dudley'; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
> 
> Agreed; Under the ADA, the college is obligated to make your books accessible.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 9:19 AM
> To: Karl Martin Adam; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
> 
> They need to provide this as a service. It is part of their obligation under the ADA to provide you with useable, remediated text.
> Aleeha Dudley and Seeing Eye Dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association of Guide Dog Users Vice President, Ohio Association of Blind Students Both proud divisions of the National Federation of the Blind of Ohio
> Email: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com <mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
> “The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse’s ears.” - Arabian proverb
> 
>> On Feb 2, 2015, at 9:31 PM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> You're right of course that they should convert the file for you, but the thing is, even if they do, that won't solve your problem.
>> The OCR software Adobe or Kursweil or whatever uses to convert a PDF to text has the same problems trying to figure out what letters are in the picture (which is what a PDF is) as the OCR jaws uses, so you'll have the same problems with words stuck together or letters being incorrect even if they convert it for you.  Occasionally one OCR will be better than another for a specific text, but there isn't really one that works particularly well over all.  The only way to get something that's nice and polished is to have someone sit and proofread after converting, which is extremely time consuming and tedious to do.  Schools should probably provide that as a service, but almost none of them do unfortunately.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 21:19:34 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
>> 
>> Aleeha!
>> 
>> you get it.
>> The school, Nova, simply pushes me and others around.
>> They have the conversion software to honor my request to convert the publisher file to a text format like RTF.
>> They simply will not do it on basis of security.
>> 
>> You are right they have to provide an accessible format. But who determines what is accessible?
>> Who determines what is a suitable accomodation?
>> 
>> Well, they have one way, and I like another.
>> The lady coordinating alternate texts told me that it was pdf files
>> period; pdf files were readable with jaws, acording to her, so there was no need to convert anyway.
>> I wrote back explaining that jaws cannot read many publisher pdf files well; that words are often smashed together as it speaks.
>> 
>> Who is this woman to tell me that jaws reads all pdf files fine when
>> she does not use jaws herself? Has she tested it yet to find out? No!
>> 
>> If the file fails to read, I’ll call a meeting and show them.
>> 
>> Oh, yes, I tried Bard. They do not carry any norton anthologies.
>> I have learning ally, but as I said before, I need a text file; I need to find quotes for journals. I need to have a file to follow along in class like everyone else.
>> 
>> If I have to do an audio book, it will be. but it’s a struggle. I have to pause it to copy down quotes and its easy to miss stuff. Also, I’m finding I cannot spell names and places right not seeing the text. if I had a text file, I could spell them with jaws.
>> 
>> 
>> Anyway, thanks for your ideas. As I said, I will try the pdf file once they give it to me and hook my notetaker to the pc to try to read it with jaws and the braille display.
>> 
>> 
>> Ashley
>> From: Aleeha Dudley
>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 7:46 PM
>> To: Karl Martin Adam ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list
>> Cc: Ashley Bramlett
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
>> 
>> Here’s the thing. The college has to provide you with an accessible version of the file that will work for you, as long as doing so is not an undue burden on the university. There are plenty of ways they could make this file useable for you. Granted, some of the styles the author uses may not come out well with JAWS, but have you tried BARD or Learning Ally? Sorry for jumping in late on this thing and sorry if these things have been asked before, but it annoys me to no end when universities and colleges push students around and claim that something can’t be done when it could very easily.
>> 
>> Aleeha Dudley and Seeing Eye Dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio
>> Association of Guide Dog Users Vice President, Ohio Association of
>> Blind Students Both proud divisions of the National Federation of the
>> Blind of Ohio
>> Email: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>> “The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse’s ears.” -
>> Arabian proverb
>> 
>> On Feb 2, 2015, at 6:17 PM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> If you have a Braille display you can connect it to your computer, and it should display anything your computer can read.  It doesn't have to be a BRF file.  Similarly, you can connect your notetaker to the computer and use it as a braille display or read files on it directly.  Many schools don't have conversion software to make the PDF into something else, and anyway, converting it won't make the words unsmoosh.  If it's really a big deal for you, try using robobraille or one of the other conversion services out there.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 17:41:12 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
>> 
>> This is a copy for the list.
>> 
>> Hi Lucy and all,
>> thanks for the responses.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, I was informed that I will get a pdf file only.
>> I requested it from the school and am waiting. They denied my request
>> to convert it to a text based format even though other colleges do that.
>> This community college is just difficult, IMO. Its an elective
>> thankfully so if I have to miss copying quotes because I cannot go
>> find them, its not such a big deal.
>> 
>> Lucy,
>> I wish I could use my braille display, but I do not have a  brf file
>> and never will.
>> I checked bookshare.
>> They do not have this book.
>> 
>> The text is Norton Anthology of short fiction. The seventh edition.
>> 
>> If you can assist me, I'll write off list.
>> Just let me know, and which email you want me to use.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lucy Sirianni
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 3:17 AM
>> To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list
>> Subject: re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
>> 
>> Hi Ashley,
>> 
>> As a doctoral candidate in English and a college-level English
>> instructor, let me take a stab at answering just a few of your
>> questions.
>> 
>> First, I would encourage you to obtain the text in a format you can
>> access via Braille display.  This will not only allow you to access
>> them in class but will also make it much easier to integrate quotes
>> into your writing, as you can simply paste them into your analysis.
>> Many of the Norton anthologies are available via Bookshare.  If the
>> one you're using isn't, feel free to contact me directly, as I
>> frequently teach from various Norton anthologies and may be able to
>> point you toward an accessible version of the one assigned for your
>> class.
>> 
>> Second, I would ask for both comments and handouts to be sent to you
>> electronically.  These are very reasonable accommodations to request
>> and ones I routinely offer students with no inconvenience to myself.
>> Assuming you do indeed have a note-taker, you shouldn't need the
>> handouts too far in advance of class, so the professor shouldn't need
>> to alter his or her schedule of lesson planning substantially.
>> 
>> I haven't worked with Blackboard or with texts in audio format, so I
>> can't offer any input on your other questions, but please don't
>> hesitate to be in touch if I can help with anything else.
>> 
>> Enjoy the course!
>> 
>> Lucy
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 23:24:54 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I?联 taking a literature elective.  A year or so back, I tried taking
>> one and wrote to you all about a professor not interested in
>> accomodating me.
>> He showed videos of the literature he used and I would not be able to
>> access that outside class with a reader among other issues.
>> 
>> Fortunately, my new professor for short story seems nice and willing
>> to help.  No videos are used and his class is very auditory with lots
>> of discussion; sometimes in small groups and sometimes as a whole
>> class.
>> 
>> Here are my  questions and concerns though.
>> Note that I have the book in audio form now, but am looking for it in
>> text form and may ask my dss office to get it from the publisher.  I
>> generally have found publisher files unfriendly though as its pdf.
>> the words are often smashed together and words are broken up with
>> hyphens as jaws reads them
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